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I AM GONNA CALL TO ORDER[Board of Architectural Review on July 14, 2026.]
THE TUESDAY OF JULY 14TH, 2026, MEETING OF THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYALS BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW.CONNIE, CAN YOU DO A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? CHAIRMAN WATERS, HE'S ABSENT TONIGHT.
AND MS. NASH, SHE IS ALSO OUT.
AND, UM, WE'LL NEED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE JUNE 9TH WORK SESSION.
WE DID NOT HAVE A REGULARLY, REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETING, SO WE'RE APPLICANT, SOMEBODY'S JUST OUR WORK SESSION IN, I I MOVE.
WE APPROVE, UH, THE JUNE 9TH WORK SESSION.
AND WE HAVE ONE APPLICANT TONIGHT.
AND DANIEL, DO YOU HAVE INFORMATION FOR US, PLEASE? YEAH.
SO THE ONLY APPLICATION THAT I IS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR APPLICATION 2 6 0 0 3 1 3, UH, SUBMITTED BY MR. BANG TO REPLACE 18 EXISTING, WHETHER OR NOT EXISTING ANYMORE, TO REPLACE, UH, 18 WINDOWS WITH VINYL AT 5 0 7 EAST MAIN STREET, IDENTIFIED BY TAX MAP 20 A SEVEN, OR A EIGHT DASH SEVEN DASH FOUR.
IT'S ZONE C TWO DOWNTOWN BUSINESS DISTRICT AND IS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, AS YOU KNOW.
UM, THE WINDOWS WERE REPLACED WITH VINYL.
HE WAS ISSUED A NOTICE OF VIOLATION IN 2025 BECAUSE HE DID THE WORK WITHOUT A PERMIT AND WITHOUT APPLICATIONS FROM THE ZONING PLANNING AND ZONING DEPARTMENT.
HE CAME TO THIS BOARD, UH, IN 2025 AND, UH, YOU DENIED VINYL WINDOWS AND HE WAS TO REMOVE 'EM AND REPLACE 'EM WITH WOOD.
HE'S NOT DONE ANYTHING WITHIN A YEAR.
ALL COAS EXPIRE AFTER 12 MONTHS OF NO WORK.
AND HE'S REAPPLIED, UH, FOR APPROVAL OF VINYL WINDOWS AGAIN.
THEY'VE ALREADY ALL BEEN REPLACED.
I BELIEVE YOUR RULING AT THAT MEETING ALLOWED FOR THREE VINYL WINDOWS ON THE SIDE FACING THE LAUNDROMAT, BUT THE REST WERE TO BE CAN WE SIGN UP THE BUILDING REPLACED ON THE FRONT? YES.
WHAT ABOUT THE REAR? UH, THE REAR WERE THE NEW VITAL.
SO THEY'RE ALLOWED TO, SO HE WANTED, THEY WANTED THEM TO JUST REPLACE THE FRONT WINDOWS OF DOOR.
THE LAST TIME THAT'S WHAT WE ASKED FOR.
AND WAS THERE ANY, UH, WAS IT JUST PERMISSION TO REPLACE THE ONES THAT HADN'T BEEN REPLACED IN THE BACK OR A REQUIREMENT TO, UM, REPLACE THE ONES IN THE BACK? LIKE THERE'S A BOARDED UP ONE AND, AND, AND I DIDN'T QUITE GET THAT.
WELL, AT THE TIME OF THE PREVIOUS SUBMISSION, HE HADN'T APPLIED FOR ANYTHING.
SO WE GAVE PERMISSION TO LEAVE THE VINYL IN THE BACK AND TO DO MORE VINYL NO.
AND TO REPLACE THE VINYL THAT HE HAD ALREADY PUT IN, IN THE FRONT TO PUT THE WOOD BACK THERE.
UM, SO YES, THERE'S ONE REMAINING WINDOW, I BELIEVE THAT HAS NOT BEEN REPLACED AT ALL.
AND THAT'S THE, YOU CALL THAT THE TWO OVER TWO ONE IN THIS YES.
BASIS, JACKSON, AND AGAIN, 'CAUSE I WASN'T HERE AND I I ONLY HAVE IT IN BLACK AND WHITE.
UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF TWO OVER TWOS THERE, BUT THE PICTURE WE HAVE OF THE, THE, UM, FROM A SURVEY SHOWS ALL SIX OVER SIXES.
SO THAT'S, EXCEPT, EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE ON THE GROUND FLOOR.
ON THE GROUND FLOOR, GROUND FLOOR.
AND, AND IS THAT THE SIDE THAT'S FACING THE LONGER MAT? THE THIS NOT YET THE PLACE POINT.
SO I'M JUST DOING FACT FINDING.
I THAT'S SHOOT STRAIGHT OUT THE BACK THAT, THAT'S FACING JACKSON STREET, THAT'S BASED OFF THE REAR.
AND HISTORICALLY FROM THE SURVEY, THEY WERE ORIGINALLY SIX OVER SIX, WHICH YOU COULD SEE IN THE PHOTOS FROM THE PREVIOUS, PRIOR TO THEM BEING REPLACED, THEY WERE SIX OVER SIX WHITE WOOD.
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UM, IS, IS THERE ANY REASON WHY WE WOULDN'T JUST RE ADOPT THE, THE PRIOR DECISION OF THE BOARD? I MEAN, IS, IS THAT, IS THAT, ARE, ARE WE BEING ASKED TO JUST EXTEND FOR ANOTHER YEAR THE, THE PREVIOUS COA OR TO SOMEHOW MAKE IT MORE FASTER? UM, FASTER? YEAH.LIKE THE, THE ACTUAL APPLICATION.
IF WE SAY WE WANT THOSE WOOD, WE'RE ESSENTIALLY SAYING WE WANT WHAT WE WANTED LAST TIME.
THIS IS YOUR SECOND LOOK AT IT.
SO LAST YEAR YOU APPROVED FINAL ON THE SIDES AND REAR AND THEN WOOD IN THE FRONT.
HE DID NOT COMPLETE THE WORK WITHIN THE ONE YEAR TIMEFRAME THAT HE HAD.
YOU COULD EITHER THE SAME THING.
YOU CAN YEAH, YOU COULD DO THE SAME AS LAST YEAR.
YOU COULD TELL HIM TO RIP 'EM ALL OUT AND PUT WOOD IN.
SO YOUR, SO THE REQUEST IS THE SAME AS LAST TIME.
AND WE'RE BEING, AND, AND, AND, AND BECAUSE IT'S BEFORE US AGAIN, LIKE IT WAS A NEW MATTER.
WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO YEAH.
THE THE OLD, AND YOU CAN EVEN ADD TO IT.
LIKE YOU CAN TELL HIM THAT, YOU KNOW, HE NEEDS TO MAINTAIN THE WOOD AROUND THE WINDOWS THAT THEY NEED TO BE LEVEL THAT YOU, YOU KNOW.
UM, YOU CAN BE, YOU NEED TO BE SPECIFIC.
I THINK THAT'S BEEN A PROBLEM IN THE PAST THAT THIS BOARD HASN'T BEEN AS SPECIFIC AS THEY'VE NEEDED TO BE.
FOR THE APPLICANT'S CLARITY AND FOR STAFF WHEN WE WRITE IT.
I'M GONNA PUT CURRENT PICTURES UP ON THE, OKAY.
DO WE, DO WE HAVE A COPY OF WHAT WE SAID LAST TIME? LIKE IF I JUST WANTED TO REINTRODUCE NOW I I CAN, YOUR WORDING SHOULD HAVE THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE HOUSE.
WORDS SHOULD, UH, BE IN THAT IN YOUR STAFF REPORT.
THE PRIOR MOTION SHOULD BE IN THAT, THE, I DON'T THINK THIS, OH, ARE WE CLEAR THAT THEY WANT THE PREVIOUS MOTION A YEAR AGO? WAS WOOD THE ENTIRE HOUSE EXCEPT FOR THOSE THREE WINDOWS? IS THAT WHAT THE MOTION? YES.
OKAY, LET ME READ THAT MOTION.
MS. RES MOVED, SECONDED BY MS. SNYDER TO BOOTH APPROVE THE THREE VINYL WINDOWS ON THE WEST FACING FACADE, WHICH FACES THE LAUNDROMAT ON THE UPSTAIRS PORTION OF THE HOME.
AND TO DENY ALL OTHER WINDOWS IN THE HOUSE DENY, ALL DENY THE VINYL, RIGHT? YEAH.
THE ONES THAT FACED THE LAUNDROMAT THAT YOU COULD BARELY SEE BECAUSE THEY WERE IN BETWEEN THE BUILDING.
WE SAID THOSE REMAINED VINYL, BUT THE WHOLE REST HAD FRONT AND BACK.
SO, UM, THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT, UH, UH, UH, I GOTTA SAY, I MEAN THIS IS THIS APPROPRIATE TO JUST BE TALKING ABOUT IT NOW OR I HAVE TO BE LIKE MAKING A MOTION AND THEN
UM, WELL, I'M JUST GONNA ACTUALLY JUST TALK HERE INITIALLY.
IT, IT'S SORT OF LIKE, UM, MY FIRST INSTINCT IS TO JUST READOPT WHAT WE SAID LAST TIME, WHICH IS, UH, AND WE WEREN'T HERE FOR THAT, BUT IT WAS SORT OF LIKE, THAT SEEMS LIKE A REASONABLE THING TO DO.
YOU THEN GIVEN THIS APPLICATION RESOLVING THE SAME THING AS LAST TIME SEEMS LIKE A REASONABLE THING TO DO.
EXCEPT WE LEARNED THINGS FROM LAST TIME.
ONE THING WE LEARNED IT WAS THAT IT DIDN'T GET DONE.
UM, AND SO I'M BEGINNING TO LIKE, WERE WE NOT, IT, IT COMES TO MY MIND THAT, THAT WE HAVE A RESOLUTION FROM LAST TIME, WHICH WAS OUR BEST SENSE OF WHAT WE WANTED TO DO.
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WHY IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.AND WHAT WE WANTED WAS WOOD WINDOWS ON THE FRONT
EXCEPT, EXCEPT ON THAT ONE SIDE.
AND LIKE WE CAN SORT OF CHOOSE TO SAY, WELL, WERE WE NOT CLEAR ENOUGH OR WE NOT EMPHATIC ENOUGH? WERE WE NOT FRIENDLY ENOUGH? WERE WE NOT MEAN ENOUGH? WHAT, WHAT DID WE DO? IS THERE ANYTHING WE DID WRONG ON OUR PART? NO.
AND I THINK THAT OUR JOB TONIGHT IS THE BOARD IS TO LOOK AT IT AGAIN.
IS THERE ANY NEW INFORMATION THAT WE DID NOT HAVE LAST TIME? AND IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT THERE IS, THE APPLICATION JUST SAYS APPROVAL OF VINYL WINDOWS.
UH, AND IT DOESN'T APPEAR THERE'S ANYTHING NEW.
AND THE VINYL WINDOWS ARE STILL THERE.
SO I THINK WE DO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY WITH THIS, THIS TIME TO, LIKE LAUREN SAID, TO BE SPECIFIC ABOUT THE TYPE OF WOOD WINDOW THAT GOES BACK.
THIS IS ONE OF THE OLDEST PROPERTIES ON MAIN STREET.
AND UM, ALL OF THOSE WINDOWS WERE STILL THERE AND THEY PACKED.
AND SO WHEN I LOOK AT THAT, ONE THING I NOTICE IS THAT YOU, YOU KNOW, IMMEDIATELY THAT IT'S A REPLACEMENT WINDOW BECAUSE THE, THE MARGINS HAVE HAVE COME IN SO MUCH AND YOU'VE LOST THAT.
UM, IN, IN WHAT, WHAT DO WE SAY? HALF BENDS OR HAPPENED HERE? ARE WE MISSING, ARE WE MISSING CAULK? ARE WE MISSING INFILL? IS IT JUST THAT WINDOWS SHRINK OVER TIME? SO, SO THOSE THAT THAT FRAME AROUND THERE, THE THREE THREE SIDES.
CAN YOU STATE, STATE YOUR NAMES? THAT'S FINE.
I'M, I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF MR. RONALD BALDWIN.
YOU KNOW, HE IS SWORN, HE HAS A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING, UM, WAS JUST A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, HE IS MORE ENGLAND.
SO THE THREE SIDES THERE, TOP BOTTOM, THAT'S A, THAT'S A SPECIAL, UH, IT'S A SPECIAL MOLDING.
IT'S ACTUALLY FIVE QUAR, UH, FIVE QUARTER BOARD.
UM, THIS, ALL OF 'EM ARE IN, IN IT.
THE ONLY PLACE IT WAS RAISED WAS THE ACTUAL BOTTOM THERE BY AN INCH AND A HALF.
THE REST OF THE TRIM IS THE SAME.
THEY HAVEN'T FINISHED BECAUSE IT, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS STOPPED US.
THEY DIDN'T WANNA GO ANY FARTHER UNTIL WE GET RIGHT.
AND WAS THERE GONNA BE A, A PIECE OF COVER TRIM IN HERE OR JUST NO, HAD TO, UH, UH, IT WAS MORTARED IN, IT'LL BE MORTARED BACK IN.
UM, AND THE, THAT'S THE PART THAT'S EXTRA AND THAT'S THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE, ARE THE TWO IN THE BACK ON THE BOTTOM THAT ARE RAISED LIKE THAT.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE LOSING, I'M JUST SAYING THINGS I'M SEEING, WHICH IS WE'RE, WE'RE LOSING GLASS AREA BECAUSE WE AT THE BOTTOM IN THERE AND WE'RE LOSING MAYBE NOT SO MUCH ON THE BOTTOM HERE, EXCEPT THAT THERE'S THEN ALSO THERE WE TOOK THE WHOLE S OUT.
SO WE'RE NOT REALLY LOSING THREE SIDES.
THAT IS ALL ORIGINAL, UM, FRAMEWORK.
AND, AND, AND THIS IS LIKE LEAD OR ZIG OR THAT WAS PUT ON, THAT'S LIKE LEAD.
UH, SOMEBODY PUT THAT ON AFTERWARDS.
QUITE A, QUITE A FEW YEARS AGO.
AND DO, DO, UM, DO THEY ALL HAVE THIS OR NOT ALL OVER? YOU SCROLL THROUGH JUST THE LOWER, I TOOK A COUPLE PICTURES OF THE FRONT TOO.
THE LOWER LOWER ONE WE'RE NOT FANCY YET.
LET RECORD SHOW THAT THE FRONT HAS IT IN THE LOWER ONES IN THE BACK, I THINK HAVE IT.
I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY ACTUALLY TOOK AWAY FROM THE, THE ORIGINAL.
THOSE ARE ALL COMPLETELY SHIPPED TO.
SO I'M JUST, AND THIS WAS LIKE, UM, I, I WOULD JUST SAY THE, THE, EVEN THOUGH MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHY IT'S DIFFERENT OR WHY IT DOESN'T LOOK HISTORIC, RIGHT.
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A BIG VIBE THAT YOU GET WHEN, WHEN YOU SEE THIS, I'M GONNA TRY AND SAY IT OUT LOUD, WHICH IS THAT THAT YEAH.THAT COMING IN, YOU FEEL THAT EVEN IF YOU CAN'T EXACTLY SAY WHY IT HAPPENED.
UH, UM, AND UH, AND YEAH, IT, IT LOSES SOME OF ITS HISTORIC FEEL AND, UM, AND JUST, UH, I THINK IT'S REALLY HARD TO GET THAT HISTORIC LOOK IN A, IN A REPLACEMENT STYLE.
CAN I REBUTTAL A LITTLE BIT HERE? SURE.
UH, 5 0 1 FROM THE CORNER HAS THE SAME EXACT WINDOWS.
UH, ALL THE WAY AROUND THE WHOLE WINDOW.
EXACT, EXACT SAME WINDOWS IN THE SAME BLOCK.
I'M NOT PROUD OF MY HOUSE EITHER THERE.
AND IT'S IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT SIDE, AND IT, IT, IT HAPPENS 1 26 HAS IT, TWO 20 HAS IT? 4 0 3 HAS IT.
AND TWO 14 ALL HAVE THE SAME WINDOW.
UM, DOWN, DOWN THE HISTORICAL BLOCK ON MAIN STREET.
THAT'S KIND OF UNFAIR TO THIS MAN.
YOU WANT HIM TO SPEND $9,000 OR ACTUALLY NOW YOU WANT WOOD ALL THE WAY AROUND.
SO NOW WE'RE TALKING $32,000 JUST TO BUY THE WINDOW.
UM, I CAN SHARE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'LL, EACH ONE OF THESE CASE BY CASE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED IN THOSE PREVIOUS INSTANCES.
I WASN'T ON THE BOARD DURING THOSE TIMES, DURING THAT TIME PERIOD.
AND YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR JOB AS THE BOARD OF OUR CATCH REVIEW IS TO PRESERVE YES.
AS MANY OF THESE HISTORIC STRUCTURES AS WE CAN.
AND WINDOWS, DOORS, MATERIALS THAT ARE, THAT WERE USED.
THAT'S, THAT'S ONE THE HEAT ELEMENTS.
AND THIS IS A, ONE OF THE OLDEST STRUCTURES, LIKE I SAID ON OUR MAIN STREET, THE OLDEST ON THAT BLOCK.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT ANY NEW INFORMATION, I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHY WE WOULD REVERSE OUR DECISION FROM I HAVE A COMPROMISE.
UM, HOW ABOUT I MAKE, WHAT WHAT? UM, UH, SORRY.
I JUST SEE CANCER SO I CAN GET THINGS.
UM, GRIDS MAKE A COMPROMISE WOULD BE TO MAKE WHAT GRIDS ON THE OUTSIDE.
UH, SO YOU WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW IT'S THERE.
YOU KNOW, WE GOTTA LOOK AT EFFICIENCY TOO.
UM, FOR, FOR THE, UM, FOR OUR, OUR PLANET TOO.
SO EFFICIENT WINDOWS, THEM ARE LOW EGRESS WINDOWS.
UM, OR YOU NEED TO SEAL THAT FOR TO BE
WE, WE STOPPED BECAUSE WE DON'T, I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE IT WAS GONNA GO, SO WE JUST STOP WORKING ON IT.
'CAUSE HE, YOU KNOW, HE, HE, HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.
SO, SO I WANTED TO STOP WORKING ON HIM UNTIL THERE AND YEAH, I WANNA GET BACK OUT THERE BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE LOOK.
I'M WORRIED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE FACT THAT, THAT THOSE WINDOWS HAVE SET THERE FOR THE LAST YEAR LIKE THAT IN, IN THE WEATHER.
AND IF, UM, WE CAN'T COME TO A COMPROMISE OR THEY'RE GONNA SET THERE ANOTHER YEAR LIKE THAT.
AND THAT IS REALLY DETERIORATING THE BUILDING THAT WE'RE TRYING TO SAVE.
UH, WAIT,
AND FROM THE INSIDE IT HAS 12 INCHES OF BRICK, FOUR LAYERS OF BRICK.
AND ME AND MR. BANG THERE REBUILT THE WHOLE BOTTOM SIDE.
AND ALL ALONG, UM, UH, UM, WE REDID THE BRICK AT THE BOTTOM THREE LAYERS OF IT.
IT WAS ABOUT RIGHT IN BOTTOM, PULL IN ANY PERMITS.
WE NEED A PERMIT TO REPLACE THE BRICK.
WHAT DO YOU NEED A PERMIT FOR? WE'RE GONNA MAKE THAT CLEARER IN OUR, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT, IT WAS REPLACING BRICK THAT, THAT WAS ALREADY GONE AT THE BOTTOM.
UM, STILL LAYER OF BRICK ON THE OUTSIDE, BUT SOMEBODY HAD TO DO SOMETHING RIGHT AWAY.
UM, I MEAN, UH, MR. BANG BROUGHT THIS THING BACK BY S 35 YEARS
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BROUGHT, HE BROUGHT THE, THE, THE HISTORICAL BAT.IF YOU WALK IN, IN THE FOYER, WELL, WELL APPRECIATE THAT.
HE NEEDS TO DO IT WITHIN UNDERSTAND THE RIGHT STEPS.
I JUST WANT TO BE, WANT, WANT Y'ALL BE FAIR WITH HIM.
LIKE, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE BLOCK AND, AND COME UP WITH A COMPROMISE.
UH, IT'S JUST THAT THE, THE HISTORIC LOOK SUCH A BIG STEP BACKWARDS WHEN, WHEN YOU LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A HISTORIC BUILDING.
IT'S NOT JUST A BRICK BUILDING PAINTED PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE WINDOWS.
UH, AND THE, I AM ON A CERTAIN LEVEL, I, I HAVE SAID THIS, WHICH IS I DON'T REALLY CA THE THING THAT MATTERS MOST TO ME IS WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE, NOT WHAT THEY'RE MADE OUT OF.
AND, AND EVEN PUTTING THE SURFACE MUS ON, IT DOESN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF HOW MUCH GLASS WE'VE LOST AND HOW IT'S OKAY.
OBVIOUSLY THE FRONTS, WE DIDN'T LOSE NO GLASS AT ALL.
WE LOST LAST ON THE, ON THE, ON THE BACK AND THE SIDE.
WELL, I MEAN ON, ON THE, ON THE LAUREN, DO WE HAVE PICTURES? IF YOU PUSH THE, USE THE MOUSE AND CLICK THE ARROW, THERE IS NO LOSS LOSS ON THE FRONT.
WHAT WHATSOEVER? I TOOK ALL THE SASHES OUT AND BECAUSE IT HAS A BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL, IT'S LIKE A, I I I'VE DONE A LOT OF HISTORICAL FROM FRANKLIN ANDROY WRIGHT'S, UH, WORK.
UM, SO DID YOU KNOW THAT THIS WAS IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT? YES.
AND YOU DIDN'T THINK THAT HE NEEDED APPROVAL TO DO THIS PRIOR TO, UH, APPROVAL YEAH.
TO TAKE WINDOWS OUT TO PUT VINYL IN? WELL, A LOT OF HISTORIC I LOOKED RIGHT NEXT DOOR, WHICH IS A COOK BUILDING.
BUT THAT'S NOT, WHEN YOU'RE IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, IF YOU'VE WORKED IN THEM BEFORE, YOU KNOW THERE ARE GUIDELINES.
UH, AND THEN YOU CAN'T JUST GO OFF THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR.
WELL, IF, IF, IF, IF IT'S APPROVED FOR ANOTHER COOK BUILDING RIGHT NEXT DOOR, WHY WOULD THEY BE? HOW DID YOU KNOW IT WAS APPROVED? MAYBE THOSE WEREN'T APPROVED.
UH, THEY WERE APPROVED BECAUSE, BECAUSE, UM, I KNOW THE OWNER, SO I ALREADY KNOW THAT THE BUILDING HAD BEEN APPROVED A LONG TIME AGO.
I DID THE BACKGROUND LINE ACTUALLY A LONG RIGHT.
SO WHY WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT NOW THAN A LONG TIME AGO? SAY SEVEN, EIGHT YEARS AGO? WHEN, WHEN, UH, FIVE 13 WAS DONE, OR 10 YEARS AGO WHEN FIVE 13 WAS DONE AND FIVE 19.
WELL, THE BAR, THE MEMBERS ON THE BAR CHANGE.
IT, IT DEPENDS ON THEIR INTERPRETATION AND HOW THEY WANT FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES AND HOW THEY WANT.
SO, BUT IT, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
WE CAN'T CHANGE THE PAST AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND WHO FOLLOWS THE GUIDELINES.
I'M JUST ASKING FOR A LITTLE BIT OF GUIDE.
I MEAN, A LITTLE BIT OF, AND IN THE FUTURE, COMPROMISE, COMPROMISE.
JUST WALK DOWN HERE AND ASK US LIKE YOU'VE BEEN DOING HERE LAST I UNDERSTAND.
IT'S BETTER TO ASK FIRST THAN FIND OUT THE HARD PART.
I MEAN, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO STEP THAT WAY AND THERE'S MOLDING ON THESE WINDOWS THAT GIVE IT ADDITIONAL CARE.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHY THEY'RE SEEING THE SCALE IS OFF JUST A LITTLE BIT.
THEY'RE JUST A LITTLE BIT SMALLER.
SO, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THIS WOOD DETAIL THAT THAT'S THE, THAT'S JUST MISSING FROM, SEE, THAT'S FROM THE O I'LL JUST SAY I, YES.
I WANT TO BE LESS STRICT THIS TIME BECAUSE MAYBE THAT'S WHY IT DIDN'T GET DONE.
THAT'S FROM MY INSIDE PICTURE.
AND, AND, AND IN BETWEEN, I'M JUST LIKE IN WORDS, THE ONLY WAY THIS ISN'T CUT AND DRY.
THAT'S THE PIECE THAT I DEFINITELY, I LIKE IT MYSELF.
IF YOU LOOK THAT'S NOT ON ANY OF THOSE WINDOWS, THERE'S NO WOOD TRIM.
I DON'T IT DONE OR NOT, DOESN'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH SEE THIS ONE RIGHT HERE.
CAN I, SO I, THIS ONE SHOWS THE ROUNDED EDGE RIGHT HERE.
WE'RE HAVING TWO BREAK MEETINGS RIGHT NOW.
WE, BUT THEY GOT IN HERE, THERE'S STILL ROOM THEM FROM THE STORM WINDOWS THAT THEY HAD ON THERE.
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STILL A ALUMINUM FRAMER AROUND THERE.I JUST LEFT THEM ON FOR NOW ON THIS, THIS ONE HERE.
SEE THE ROUNDNESS COME AROUND.
I MEAN, IT WOULD'VE ALREADY BEEN TRIMMED, BUT YOU KIND OF WANTED TO STOP ON IT UNTIL HE, YOU YOU WERE ALL GONNA DO, HUH.
AND WIPE UP MORE MONEY AND TIME INTO IT.
AND THEN HAVE TO REPLACE 'EM ALL.
WELL, WHY DID IT TAKE A YEAR TO COME BACK? WHY DID IT TAKE A YEAR? I DIDN'T GO THROUGH CANCER.
I WENT THROUGH REALLY ROUGH CANCER.
I MEAN, UH, SINCE LAST AUGUST I WAS LAID DOWN TILL, UM, MARCH.
AND MR. BANG, HE, HE JUST DOESN'T KNOW TO GO GO ABOUT IT.
I, I WAS WRONG TO, TO NOT STEP TO YOU GUYS ABOUT WHEN WE DID REPLACE IT MM-HMM
SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY, MY MISTAKE.
I THINK I'VE STEPPED TO ON EVERYTHING ELSE, TO, TO THE CITY HERE AS MUCH AS I COULD
AND I LOVE, I LOVE HISTORICAL BUILDING.
CHARLES, I FELL OFF THE ROOF, BROKE MY BACK.
THEN I COME HERE AND I FIND OUT LIKE CANCER.
AND I DID THREE HISTORICALS, TOOK A YEAR TO GET THROUGH HERE,
AND I BUILT THREE STORIES ON IT IN THE BACK, WHICH THEY ALLOW IT THERE.
UM, YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE, THE IMMEDIATE SIZE OF THE FRONT, WHICH CAN ADD ONTO THE BACK.
I'M JUST ASKING FOR A COMPROMISE.
IF I MAKE IT LOOK, WHICH I'M VERY GOOD AT, LIKE IT USED TO LOOK IS, BUT WITH, AND NOT SOLID WOOD.
WOOD WINDOWS ARE SO INEFFICIENT THAT HAVE SOME KIND OF CLAD ON THE OUTSIDE.
I'M JUST, IT IS GONNA COST, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA COST A LOT OF MONEY JUST TO DO WOOD.
I, SO I'M ASKING FOR A COMPROMISE, THAT'S ALL.
AND, AND OR RIGHT NOW FOR MYSELF, I DON'T SEE A REASON TO CHANGE WHAT THE BOARD SAID LAST TIME.
I MEAN, I HAVE ARGUED FOR, FOR EITHER SIDE OF THAT, AND I'M NOT HAPPY WITH, WITH MAKING IT TOUGHER AND I'M NOT HAPPY WITH MAKING IT LESSER.
AND, UM, RE READOPTING WHAT WAS ADOPTED LAST TIME MAKES SENSE TO ME.
UM, I, I, I'M, IT'S IN THE PUBLIC OPEN MEETING LAW.
I GOTTA SAY THAT OUT LOUD, YOU KNOW? AND, AND, AND JUST THANK YOU.
UM, THE OTHER COMMENT, UH, I WOULD JUST ASK LAUREN FOR A LITTLE BIT OF GUIDANCE.
YOU KNOW, IF WE, UM, MAYBE SOME HELP WITH THE LANGUAGE YOU MENTIONED ON HOW TO TRIM THEM OUT.
I MEAN, SO IN YOUR PACKET, SO YOU'VE GOT THAT PHOTO OF THE OLD WINDOWS.
I MEAN, REGARDLESS THAT TRIM IS A BIG PART OF THE CHARACTER OF THESE WINDOWS.
UM, THAT NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED IN YOUR MOTION.
THE TRIM NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.
IF YOU DON'T, IF YOU WANNA GIVE THEM LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF ENCY ON THE WOOD OF A MATERIAL, LIKE A COMPOSITE, BUT IT NEEDS TO HAVE THE SAME, UH, PROFILE.
UM, THE AROUND IT'S COMPLETELY, UH, WELL, YOU SAID HE WOULD MORTAR IT IN.
SO I WOULD ADD IN THAT IT NEEDS DIDN NEED TO BE MORTARED IN LAUREN YOU'RE REFERRING YEAH.
THAT'S DECK, RIGHT? IT REALLY LOOKS LIKE THE INSIDE THERE FROM INSIDE.
THAT MIGHT BE THE INSIDE PICTURE.
OH, THAT'S WITH THE BOARD ON THE OUTSIDE.
BUT RIGHT NOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, LIKE IF YOU GO TO ONE OF THE OTHER PICTURES, YOU CAN SEE THAT VINYL WINDOW HAS JUST BEEN SAT IN THAT OPENING AND IT DOESN'T QUITE FIT.
THAT'S YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO PUT SOMETHING.
I, I, SO I THINK OUR I SEAL, BUT I ALSO THINK AS WELL, BECAUSE THERE TRIM ALSO NEEDS TO BE, OH, THERE'S MORE TO BE DONE.
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I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, THAT BACK, I DON'T KNOW THE PROPER, THAT WAS ADDED ON LATER.I DON'T KNOW IF Y'ALL NOTICED THAT.
AS FAR AS THE HISTORICAL PART.
BACK HERE, YOU WALLS AROUND IT, THE BACK WAS ADDED ON.
THAT'S WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE LOOKED LIKE IN FRONT.
I DON'T KNOW WHEN NO, THEY WERE, UM, IT USED TO HAVE STAIRS COME UP THE BACK INTO THE TOP.
IT USED TO BE AN IN, I THINK YOU ALL KNOW THAT, RIGHT? UM, THE ORIGINAL, I'M SORRY.
SO I, I GUESS SO I WOULD SAY NOW WHAT WE'RE STRUGGLING WITH IS, UM, NOW THAT WE DON'T, TO THE EXTENT ACTUALLY IS, IS ONE OF THE, ONE OF THESE WINDOWS IS STILL BEHIND A BOARD ON THE BACK OF THE YES.
HOW MANY ARE STILL BEHIND THE BOARDS ON THE BACK OF THE BUILDING? THAT'D ONLY JUST THAT ONE.
SO THE, THE, THE, THE POINT WOULD BE THAT WE LIKE THAT WINDOW
AND, AND THE, YOU KNOW, IF WE COULD WAIT THAT ONES, THAT'S GOTTA BE THE MAIN, RIGHT? RIGHT.
AND, AND, AND I SAW ON THE BACK OF THE BUILDING SHOWING THE SAME, BECAUSE THE TRIM ON THE INSIDE IS LIKE A FOUR AND THREE QUARTERS AND ALL THAT'S PRESERVED.
THE OUTSIDE IS A BIG, UH, INCH.
AND OH, ACTUALLY IT'S INCH AND SEVEN EIGHT AND IT'S A, A COMPLETE ROUND COMING OUT EXCEPT FOR ON THE BACK, THE IMMEDIATE BACK OF THAT ADDITION THAT I CALL IT WAS DONE IN SQUARE BLOCKS.
WHAT THE, UM, THE VERY BACK OF THE BUILDING WAS ADDED ON AFTERWARDS.
I DON'T THINK IT'S THE SAME SIZE.
I CAN MAKE THAT LOOK THE SAME AS THE FRONT, UM, WITH THE, WHICH IS THE ORIGINAL LOOK.
AND IT TO, TO ME, THE, THE SENSE HERE IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO GIVE MORE SPECIFICITY ON SORT OF REVEAL MM-HMM
OR SIZE OF GLAZING OR, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT MM-HMM
UM, THE OTHER THING IS THAT TO THE EXTENT THAT THAT WINDOW IS STILL BEHIND THE BOARDED, IT NEEDS TO BE STANDING, THEN, THEN, THEN WE WOULD WANT THAT ONE TO BE SAVED.
IN OTHER WORDS, WE'RE ON THIS ONE, WE WOULD SAY DON'T PUT A NEW WINDOW THERE.
TAKE THE BOARD OFF AND, AND FIX IT AND, AND FIX THAT WINDOW.
AND THEN IT, IT, WE WOULD SAY WE'RE GLAD THAT THAT WINDOW IS THERE BECAUSE THAT'S OUR MODEL FOR WHAT THE OTHER ONE SHOULD LOOK LIKE.
AND, UH, I, MY THING IS I JUST DON'T SEE HOW YOU GET THAT LOOK IN ALL THE OTHER WINDOWS WITH VINYL.
THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, I, I, I, I CAN SAY I'M OPEN TO THE IDEA.
IN OTHER WORDS, IF I HAD TO ADOPT SOMETHING TONIGHT, IT'S JUST THE SAME THING WE SAID LAST TIME.
BUT MAYBE A LITTLE MORE ON, AND LET'S BE CLEAR THAT WHEN WE SAY WE WANT A WOOD WINDOW, WE WANT THAT WINDOW TO STAY WHERE IT IS.
WE, WE WANT TO SAVE THAT WINDOW.
UM, AND THEN I, I DON'T THINK THE, AND, AND THEN KNOWING THAT THIS IS OUR MODEL FOR WHAT A GREAT HISTORIC WOOD WINDOW LOOKS LIKE, I WOULD SAY I'M OPEN TO THE IDEA THAT YOU WOULD COME BACK LATER AND SAY, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO THIS IN VINYL.
BUT IT'S UNLIKELY LOOKING AT THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING AS IT IS NOW.
BUT THE VINYL THAT'S THERE IS GOING TO BE THE VINYL THAT GETS YOU THIS LOOK, BECAUSE SO FAR IT HASN'T GOTTEN YOU THIS.
AND WE'RE A HUNDRED PERCENT CERTAIN YOU DIDN'T SAVE ANY OF THESE WINDOWS.
THERE'S A LOT OF STORAGE IN THAT BUILDING, IN THAT SPACE THERE.
THERE'S A LOT OF GARAGES, THERE'S A LOT OF STORAGE, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS AROUND THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING.
THEY, I THINK THEY WENT FAIRLY CRUMBLED.
I FELL OFF EVERYTHING FELL, FELL APART.
THE, THE, I DON'T THINK SOMETHING WAY YOU DIDN'T ASK THEM TO COME BACK FOR ANOTHER VINYL WINDOW, KEVIN.
I, I MEAN, IT WOULD BE, WELL, I MEAN, ONCE YOU GIVE A COA
[00:35:02]
CAN PEOPLE COME BACK AND ASK FOR A CHANGE ON IT.YOU CAN I DO IT APPEAL TO THE TOWN COUNCIL.
IF THEY DO NOT LIKE OUR RULING, THEN THEIR NEXT OPTION IS TO APPEAL THAT TO THE TOWN COUNCIL.
NO, I, I I'M, WHERE I AM IS THAT WE, WE SAY THE SAME THING AS LAST TIME, BUT WE ADD THAT, THAT WINDOW, THAT ANY WINDOW THAT IS BEHIND PLYWOOD IS A WINDOW.
WHEN WE SAY THEY ALL HAVE TO BE WOOD, THE GOOD NEWS IS IF THAT WINDOW IS THERE, YOU ALREADY HAVE THAT WINDOW AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO BUY A NEW ONE.
UM, SO THIS, THIS IS THE SAVING A WINDOW SAVES MONEY, PARTICULARLY COMPARED TO PUTTING A NEW WOOD WINDOW IN.
I GUESS, I GUESS MY BUTT STOPS THERE.
IF, IF, IF, WELL I, I WOULD JUST SAY BECAUSE I'M JUST DEEPLY SKEPTICAL THAT YOU WILL EVER FIND A VINYL.
I FOUND, I SPOKE TO THE WINDOW COMPANY GENTLEMAN.
HE'S A SALES REPRESENTATIVE UNITED THE WINDOW.
THEY MIX EXACTLY SAME AS ALL WOODEN WINDOW WITH NOT THAT TYPE OF GRID OUTSIDE.
I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN BASED ON WHAT I'M SAYING,
YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT, WHAT WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US SAYS YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HERE TODAY, BUT YOU KNOW, HE YEAH.
AND I'M NEXT, YOU KNOW, TO SOME EXTENT IF I'M, IF I'M THE, IF I'M THE SOFTIE ON THE BOARD, UH, YOU'VE MISSED A CHANCE BECAUSE NEXT TIME
BUT I, IIII, I DON'T HAVE ANY ME TONIGHT.
I'M, I'M WILLING TO SAY THESE THINGS OUT LOUD AND TELL YOU WHERE MY THOUGHTS ARE GOING.
BUT, BUT TONIGHT, UH, WE'RE JUST GOING TO READOPT WHAT WE HAD A YEAR AGO.
UM, SO I THINK WHAT WE WANT, SO IF SOMEBODY ELSE, I CAN'T MAKE A MOTION, SOMEONE ELSE HAS TO DO THAT.
I THINK WHAT WE WANT TO SAY IS THAT WE WANT ALL VINYL WINDOWS ON THE FRONT, ALL IN THE BACK OF ALL OF THE VINYL WINDOWS THAT ARE ON THE FRONT AND THE BACK OF THE BUILDING TO BE REPLACED WITH, WITH WINDOWS.
WE WANT THE ONE REMAINING ORIGINAL WINDOW TO BE REPAIRED.
AND IF CAN'T BE REPLACED WITH WOOD, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY ABOUT THE MOUNTAINS, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO HELP ME THERE.
THEY NEED TO BE THREE OVER THREE.
TELL ME THERE, THEY NEED TO BE APPROPRIATELY PLACED INSIDE OF THE SILL.
AND THE TRIM NEEDS TO BE PRESERVED.
I GUESS THAT'S, UM, INSIDE, BUT ON THE EXTERIOR YOU NEED TRIM.
YOU NEED TO BE PROPERLY INSTALLED.
AND, UM, SO THAT'S WHERE I'M ASKING.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY ABOUT THE MOUNTAINS.
THAT'S YOUR AREA OF EXPERTISE OR DDS? DDS, UH, UH, I, I MEAN, UM, ALL, ALL THAT REALLY MEANS IS THAT, UM, YOU NEED THIN GRIDS.
THESE ARE THE RIGHT, AND, AND YOU AND I SAY GRIDS, BUT ARCHITECT ARCHITECTS SAY MUS, UM, MO, OH MAN, THEY'LL GET YOU.
UM, THE, UM, BUT THE POINT IS THAT THAT THINNESS IS THE THING THAT REALLY SETS APART HISTORIC WINDOWS.
AND THAT LOOK AND THAT THREE DUS AND, AND YOU, YOU GOT ME BECAUSE I I'M STARTING TO SEE IT ON THE PICTURE.
UM, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU'RE, SO, UM, WELL, I MEAN, I, BUT THE WAY I WANT SAY THAT IS WHAT WE WANT TO SEE IS SIX OVER SIX WINDOWS THAT ARE SUBSTANTIAL MATCHES TO THE, TO THE ONE THAT'S STILL THERE.
AND THEN TRIMMED AS WOULD BE DOCUMENTED ON THE BUILDING.
RIGHT? I MEAN, SO ELLEN IS WRITING IT DOWN.
[00:40:01]
GONNA HAVE TO MAKE IT YEAH.UM, WHAT ABOUT EFFICIENCY IN, IN LOW LOWS? IS THERE ANYTHING LOW? UM, I MEAN, WE HAVE TO STILL SAVE THE PLANET IN OUR, I I WE HAVE TO BE EFFICIENT FOR THE RIGHT.
IF YOU KNOW, HERE'S MOISTURE OUT, BUT TIME MACHINE ARE, IS IT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN I APPRECIATE? YES.
I THINK PROBABLY, DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ASK ANYWHERE, SOMEBODY'S GONNA HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION ON WINDOWS AND THEIR EFFICIENCY.
I HAVE ALL THE WOODEN WINDOWS IN MY HOUSE.
THEY'VE ALL BEEN RESTORED ONE BY ONE.
AND MY ELECTRIC BILL WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT.
IF I TOLD YOU IT'S PROBABLY AMONGST THE LOWEST OF MY NEIGHBORS.
SO IF THEY ARE DONE PROPERLY, IF THEY'RE WEATHER STRIPPED APPROPRIATELY, THERE IS NO EFFICIENCY ISSUE WITH, WITH WINDOWS, IN MY OPINION.
YOU ASK A VINYL WINDOW, WINDOW GUY, HE'S GONNA SAY, YES SIR.
YOU ASK A VINYL WINDOW PERSON, THEY'LL TAKE SO TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
I UNDERSTAND THEY ALWAYS TRY TO SELL YOU LIKE INSURANCE OPENING.
YEAH, EVERYBODYS GOT DIFFERENT.
THIS GUY YESTERDAY, HE SAID THAT THAT BUILDING WAS BUILT IN 1776 TRYING TO UP THE COST.
THAT'S WHAT HE TOLD ME YESTERDAY.
I'M NOT SURE THAT'S NOT WRONG, BUT, UM, I THINK WE'RE READY TO PROBABLY MAKE A MOTION, A FOUNDATION.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO WRITE DOWN SO YOU CAN SEE IT IN YOUR OWN WORDS, BUT SHE, THE WINDOWS ON THE FRONT AND BACK TO SIX OVER SIX WINDOWS.
THE ONE REMAINING ORIGINAL WINDOW SHOULD BE, BUT I UNDERSTAND WHAT, YES.
THE ONE REMAIN WINDOW SHOULD BE PREPARED, REPLACE ALL WINDOWS ON THE FRONT AND BACK WITH SIX OVER SIX TO MATCH THE REMAINING ORIGINAL WINDOW.
UM, AND THEN ALL TO BE SET APPROPRIATELY IN WITH WOODEN EXTERIOR THREAD.
ORIGINAL, GET SOME MORE PICTURES.
UM, IS THAT, OKAY? SO I MAKE A MOTION, UH, THAT THE BOARD'S RESPONSE TO THIS APPLICATION NUMBER, UH, 2 6 0 0 3 1 3 IS THAT, UH, THE ONE REMAINING ORIGINAL WINDOW SHOULD BE WOODEN WINDOW SHOULD BE REPAIRED.
THEN REPLACE ALL WINDOWS ON THE FRONT AND BACK WITH SIX OVER SIX WOODEN WINDOWS THAT ARE VISUALLY SIMILAR TO THE REMAINING HISTORIC WINDOW.
AND THEN ALL WOULD BE SET WITH APPROPRIATE WOODEN EXTERIOR TRIM.
WOULD THAT WE ADD TO BE INSPECTED BY THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER?
UM, ALL, ALL WORK TO BE INSPECTED BY THE CODE COS ENFORCEMENT ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THAT WOULD BE ON IN THE CITY, RIGHT? OH, THAT'S DANIEL.
YOU GUYS GOT CHALLENGE JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THE MORTAR AROUND THE BRICK IS ALSO REPAIRED.
SO I'LL, I'LL READ THIS ONE MORE TIME.
THE, THE, THE BOARD MO, I, I MOVE THAT IN, IN THE MATTER OF 2 6 0 0 3 1 3, THAT THE ONE REMAINING ORIGINAL WINDOW SHOULD BE REPAIRED.
THAT ALL WINDOWS ON THE FRONT AND THE BACK BE REPLACED WITH SIX OVER SIX WOODEN WINDOWS.
ALL WINDOWS NEED TO BE SET APPROPRIATELY WITH WOOD, THEN EXTERIOR TRIM OR MORTAR AS APPROPRIATE TO THE HOUSE OR STRUCTURE.
ALL WORK TO BE INSPECTED BY THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.
ALL SECOND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALL, ALL THEY'VE GOTTA VOTE.
[00:45:02]
MS. HEERY.UM, TOM, DO YOU NEED ME TO TRY THAT ONE? I MEAN, DID WE GET, IT WAS RECORDED.
SO WHAT I MISSED, I'LL JUST VERIFY IT.
IS DO YOU AGREE DONE WITH THAT ONE? YES.
UM, WE CAN TYPE IT UP AND GIVE YOU THE OFFICIAL MOTION SO YOU HAVE, IT'LL GIVE YOU THE OFFICIAL INSTRUCTIONS.
SO THAT IS, THAT'S OUR ONLY, UM, APPLICANT FOR THE EVENING.
AND, UM, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING ELSE.
SO I DO IN, UH, YOU ALL, WE'RE RECORDING THIS SO WE CAN FINISH YOUR CONVERSATION.
UM, AT THIS POINT, THIS IS JUST ADVISORY TO US, BUT I SENT TO, UM, THE CHAIRMAN, UM, A TWO-PART PROPOSAL TO EXPAND THE TOWN, THE BORDERS OF THE TOWN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT I HAD SPOKEN WITH A RESIDENT OF RIVERTON.
AND RIVERTON HAS ITS OWN, UH, BUTTERFLY SHAPED HISTORIC DISTRICT.
HALF OF IT IS ON THE WEST SIDE OF NORTH SHENANDOAH.
AND HALF OF IT, THE POINT THAT REMAINS
AND MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT ALL THE PAPERWORK HAS BEEN DONE, UM, BOTH ON A BIGGER DISTRICT IN TOWN THAN THAN THE TOWN CURRENTLY FORCES.
UH, AND I WANT TO SOMEHOW START THE, AND I CAN'T LOBBY YOU GUYS OUTSIDE OF AN OPEN MEETING, SO I JUST WANT TO PRESENT INFORMATIONALLY.
UH, AND, BUT I CAN CIRCULATE THE DOCUMENTS.
UM, THAT COULD BE SOMETHING YOU PLACE ON THE AGENDA FOR THE NEXT MEETING, FOR THE WHOLE BOARD TO HAVE A DISCUSSION.
SO WHAT YOU'LL WANNA DO IS YOU WANNA SEND ALL THAT STUFF TO CONNIE? YEAH.
AND THEN WE'LL PUT IT IN THE NEXT PACKET AND THEN YOU GUYS CAN HAVE A FULL AND OFFICIALLY PUT IT.
AND THEN ALSO KIND OF COME UP WITH A PLAN FOR WHEN YOU'D WANNA MAYBE TALK TO COUNCIL ABOUT IT.
UM, NOW I KNOW, UM, NOW IS NOT THE TIME I'M GETTING.
'CAUSE RIGHT NOW THEY, THEY'RE WORKING ON THAT DATA CENTER PROHIBITION AND, UM, TAKING UP THE NEW ZONING ORDINANCE.
THE NEXT PROBABLY TWO MONTHS PRETTY MUCH.
BUT I WOULD SAY THE FALL MIGHT BE TIME CLEARED FAST.
AND PROBABLY, IF WOULDN'T EVEN ADVISE, JUST GET ON A WORK SESSION FOR THEM TO START TALKING ABOUT IT.
I WOULD SAY AS A BOARD, WHAT YOU'RE GONNA WANNA DO IS GO TO ONE OF THEIR WORK SESSIONS, ONE OF THEIR COUNCIL MEETINGS AS A PUBLIC CITIZEN OR OH, OKAY.
COME UP AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS OUR GOAL.
AND THEN IF YOU CAN JUST GET LIKE, JUST NEEDS ONE OF 'EM RIGHT.
NOW, GET ONE OF THEM TO ASK WHERE TO BE PLACED ON A WORK SESSION.
UM, THE MAYOR'S THE ONE THAT SAYS THE WORK SESSION AGENDA.
SO, BUT IF YOU CAN GET IT OUT THERE, CAN, CAN SHE DO IT OF HER OWN INITIATIVE? IS IT LIKE, YOU WOULD PROBABLY WANNA HAVE A CONVERSATION.
I WILL FOLLOW YOUR ADVICE, BUT MY THOUGHT IS LET THEM GET PAST SOME OF THIS DATA CENTER STUFF BEFORE YOU HIT 'EM WITH JUST BECAUSE OKAY.
SO FOR MY PART, I WILL WORK WITH CONNIE BECAUSE I'M IN ON THIS BOARD.
THIS GIVES US A LITTLE TIME TO GET PREPARED WHO, WHO PUTS IT ON THE AGENDA FOR AN UPCOMING WORK SESSION.
AND WHAT I WILL HAVE IS, UM, WE, WE HAVE THE 2002 RIVERTON WAS PUT ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER.
UM, SO, UH, WE HAVE ALL THE WORK THAT WAS DONE THEN, INCLUDING THE SURVEY OF ALL THE BUILDINGS, BECAUSE THEN THE CODE REQUIRES THAT WHEN WE GO TO COUNCIL,
[00:50:01]
WE SAY, HERE ARE THE BOUNDARIES AND HERE'S THE WORK WE DID.THAT'S, THAT'S IN AIR QUOTES FOR THE RECORD.
BUT THE POINT IS THAT'S WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM DOCUMENTATION OF THE HISTORIC NATURE OF THE BUILDINGS AND, AND, UM, THE WHOLE FIRST 30 ITEMS, BA BASICALLY, UM, THE, THE HISTORIC SURVEY WORKED FROM, UH, THE FORK OF, OF NORTH AND SOUTH RIVER OUTWARD AND TOWARDS DUCK.
SO THAT, SO BASICALLY I'M PROPOSING THAT WE PUT EVERYTHING IN ON THE, FOR, ON THE EAST INTO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND WE ABANDONED THE STUFF ON THE DUCK STREET AND ROLLS ROYCE SIDE.
THERE'S SOMETHING HISTORIC OVER THERE HAS LOST YEAH.
THOSE TOWNHOUSES ARE BEING BUK BILLS ON IT.
UM, SO, SO I WILL GET YOU A MAP.
THE HISTORIC WORK AND A DRAFT, UM, A DRAFT RESOLUTION FOR US THAT INCLUDES SUGGESTED LANGUAGE FOR YOUR COUNCIL.
UH, AND, AND SO FOR RIVERTON OR TO EXPAND OUR HEARING COUNCIL.
SO, SO THE, THE THING I'M READY TO GO WITH AND I'M MOTIVATED ON IS RIVERTON THE, THE EAST SIDE OF RIVERTON.
UM, THE THING THAT'S HARDER FOR ME TO JUDGE AND AND REALLY LIKE REALIZE ON THE EXPERTISE OF ALL OF US IS WHY THE TOWN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT IS SO MUCH SMALLER THAN THE FEDERAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE FEDERAL HISTORIC DISTRICT REACHES NORTH ON NORTH ROYAL.
IT GETS THE SHANKS BUILDING, IT GETS THE LITTLE BRICK BUILDING ON THE ALLEY BEHIND THE SEVEN 11.
IT, IT, IT, IT, UH, UM, IT'S MUCH BIGGER.
AND IT, IT GOES FURTHER OUT WEST MAINE.
IT WOULD GET SIMON'S HOUSE WITH THE, WITH THE BRITISH FLAG ON IT,
UM, AND IT WOULD, AND IT, AND IT GOES ALL THE WAY TO SOUTH STREET.
UH, IT GOES ALL THE WAY TO SOUTH STREET IN THE, IN THE FEDERAL ONE.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF, OF SOUTHERN BLUE RIDGE AND, UM, AND SHORT STREET AND, AND THOSE, YES.
UM, BUT I, I FEEL LIKE I MASTERED THE POLITICAL QUESTION OF WHAT IS RIVERTON AND WHY IS IT HISTORIC? AND, AND, AND IT'S AN EASIER QUESTION BECAUSE IT'LL BE THE FIRST TIME THE COUNCIL HAS EVER SEEN IT.
AND THEY'LL GO, HOW DID WE MISS THIS? WHEN THEY LOOK AT THE TOWN'S HISTORIC DISTRICT, THEY WILL SAY, WELL, CLEARLY THE COUNCIL MUST HAVE LOOKED AT THIS BEFORE AND SOMEHOW CHOSEN TO MAKE A SMALLER ONE.
I DON'T THINK WE CAN MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.
I FEEL LIKE OUR COUNCIL WILL LOOK AT IT WITH FRESH HEIGHTS AND THEY MIGHT VERY WELL SAY THAT AGAIN.
I MEAN, I THINK IT'S UNDENIABLE.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GO DOWN BLUE RIDGE.
I DON'T KNOW HOW ANYONE COULD ARGUE THAT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'LL EVER KNOW THE REASON WHY YOU SPECULATE.
SO, SO YOU THINKING ABOUT THAT, I'LL, I'LL WORK TO PUT THAT TO, TO GET TOGETHER AS MUCH INFORMATION AS I CAN ON THOSE TWO FOR NEXT TIME.
BUT IF YOU HAPPEN TO
I, I HAVE SOMETHING TO GIVE YOU THAT MIGHT HELP YOU.
I JUST HAVE ONE THING FOR YOU GUYS.
UM, THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS GONNA BE TAKING UP A TEXT ORDINANCE TO AMEND, I THINK IT'S 1 75, 1 47 MAYBE.
UM, SO RIGHT NOW THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR IS THE FIRST THAT JUST ME IS PUT THE AUTHORITY TO DO ALL THE SOFT WORKS AND EVERYTHING AND ENFORCE EVERYTHING IN THAT, UM, HISTORIC DISTRICT.
IT WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE FOR THAT TO BE WITH MY CODE ENFORCEMENT AND PROPERTY MAINTENANCE OFFICIAL, AT LEAST BE ABLE TO MAKE HIM A DEPUTY.
SO, SO YOU DON'T HAVE A MORE DESIGNEE POWER, NOT THE WAY THE CODE IS WRITTEN.
THE PLANNING DIRECTOR HAS THAT ZONING ADMINISTRATOR TITLE AS WELL.
BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT OTHER PLACES HAVE MULTIPLE DEPUTIES.
[00:55:01]
THE WAY OUR CODE'S WRITTEN, IT'S BEEN INTERPRETED THAT THAT'S NOT HOW THIS WORKS.SO WE'RE GONNA AMEND IT SO THAT STAFF CAN PROPERLY HAVE THE AUTHORITY THEY NEED TO GO OUT BECAUSE IT'S MORE APPROPRIATE FOR HIM, THIS CODE ENFORCEMENT PROPERLY
THAT CHANGE IS COMING IN AUGUST.
UH, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE WRITING IT OR WE, OR, OR BECAUSE IT'S OUR PART OF THE CODE, WE NEED TO SUGGEST IT.
NO, NO, NO, WE'RE ALREADY DOING IT.
I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW THAT WE'RE DOING IT.
SO IT'LL BE A PUBLIC HEARING IF YOU'D LIKE TO COME OUT AND BE THIRD WEDNESDAY IN AUGUST, YOU'RE WELCOME TO, UM, AND PLANNING COMMISSION.
PLANNING COMMISSION GOVERNMENT CENTER, 7:00 PM YOU PROBABLY NEED THIS BACK.
SO IT'S JUST, IT'S AN INTERNAL, IT'S A CODE CHANGE THAT WE'RE DOING TO MAKE THE DEPARTMENT PROCESSES JUST, JUST WORK UP AND TO, SO CURRENTLY THE FORCE, LIKE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND COA ET CETERA, THE CODE SAYS ZONING ADMINISTRATOR OR DEPUTY ZONING ADMINISTRATOR WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THE MAGISTRATE OR THE JUDGE, ET CETERA.
WHICH DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE 'CAUSE I DO CODE ENFORCEMENT.
SO JOHN OR LAUREN WOULD HAVE TO GO TO COURT.
SO DOES, DOES THIS CHANGE MEAN NOW THAT YOU'LL BE THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN DO IT? OR WILL YOU STILL BE ABLE TO I STILL CAN, BUT IT JUST ALSO MEANS THAT DANIEL, RIGHT.
AND MORE THAN LIKELY DANIEL'S GOING TO AND JOHN STILL CAN.
SO NOW THERE'LL BE THREE OF YOU THAT CAN DO IT.
CONNIE, YOU WANNA, YOU WANNA GET LICENSED UP TOO, RIGHT? UM, BUT IT JUST MAKES SENSE FROM OUR, THE WAY OUR DEPARTMENT IS STRUCTURED AND I JOHN, THAT THEY, I MEAN HE DOES ALL THE REVIEWS ESSENTIALLY AND THE BUSINESS LICENSES AND SIGNS THAT YOU DO.
AND IT JUST, SO I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA PUT YOU IN THE HOT SEAT AND ASK THE QUESTION BEFORE WE ADJOURN.
IT'S A YEAR LATER THAT OUR APPLICANT DID NOT, UM, COMPLY WITH THE BARS DECISION A YEAR AGO.
HOW DID WE GET TO THIS POINT TO HEARING HIM AGAIN? BECAUSE WE GIVE THEM A YEAR BEFORE THEY DO ANYTHING AND THEN AT THAT POINT, UM, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT A YEAR WAS.
BUT NOW, SO IS THIS HOW THE PROCESS GOES? THEY JUST KEEP COMING BACK OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
THERE'S NO ENFORCEMENT THAT DOESN'T SEEM I AT THE YEAR MARK, WE SHOULD BE OUT AND ENFORCING IT.
SO THAT IS MY FAILURE TO NOT GO OUT AND ENFORCE THIS ONE AT THE ONE YEAR.
AND HE ALSO CAME IN FOR ANOTHER REASON AND THEN DECIDED TO REAPPLY.
SO BECAUSE HE CAN CUT IT BACK.
BUT WHAT SHE IS, IF THEY DECIDE NOT TO DO ANYTHING TO FOR 12 MONTHS, CAN THEY REPEAT WHAT THEY JUST DID NOW AND SAY, OH, THEY DON'T HAVE HAVE ANY PROVISION IN THEIR CODE TO LIMIT THE NUMBER OF TIMES THEY WOULD COME BACK.
ALL IT SAYS IS THAT THEY HAVE TO START WORK WITHIN A YEAR.
SO THEN THEREFORE HE COULD JUST COME BACK EVERY 12 MONTHS AND HE COULD JUST KEEP DENYING HIM.
THAT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT TO ME.
THAT CAN'T BE, OH, HE COULD ALSO DO WHAT THE NEIGHBORS ARE DOING AND DO A LITTLE BIT OF WORK EVERY SIX MONTHS AND KEEP AND STRING IT ALONG FOR 10 YEARS.
I UNDERSTAND HE'S GOTTA DO WORK ON THE WINDOWS THOUGH, FOR THIS SPECIFIC COI HE NOT JUST WORK.
BUT HE COULD REPLACE A WINDOW EVERY SIX MONTHS.
AND AND 18 WINDOWS BY SIX EVERY SIX MONTHS COULD TAKE YEARS.
SO I AM, I AM, WHILE WE ARE STILL IN PUBLIC MEETING, I AM GONNA SAY THAT IT'S VERY DISHEARTENING, DISCOURAGING TO BE A PART OF A COMMITTEE THAT MAKES DECISIONS AND THEY DON'T GET UPHELD.
I MEAN TODAY'S MY BIRTHDAY
SO IF THAT'S REALLY WHAT'S GOING ON, COUNSEL NEEDS TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE NO, THERE'S NO PROVISION IN OUR CODE TO ENFORCE ANYTHING.
UM, YEAH, IF ANY SUCH WORK IS SUSPENDED OR ABANDONED FOR A PERIOD OF 12 MONTHS AFTER BEING COMMENCED, UM, THAT THIS EXPIRES, ANY CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS ISSUED, UH, PURSUANT TO 1 75 88 SHALL EXPIRE OF ITS OWN LIMITATIONS 12 MONTHS FROM THE DATE OF ISSUANCE OF THE WORK AUTHORIZED BY SET CERTIFICATE.
IF IT'S NOT COMMENCED FURTHER, ANY SUCH WORK SUSPENDED OR ABANDONED.
SO IF THEY START DOING SOMETHING AND THEN THEY STOP AND AFTER 12 MONTHS, THEN WE CAN ENFORCE IT AS
[01:00:01]
A VIOLATE OR DOING WORK WITHOUT A PERMIT IF THEY START IT UP AGAIN.UM, IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS JUST BEING A REPEAT CYCLE.
SO THAT'S, SO WHILE YOU'RE LOOKING AT YOUR GUIDELINES AND WE'RE GETTING READY TO PREPARE TO GO TO COUNCIL TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE HISTORIC, THE BAR GUIDELINES AND RULES AND REGULATIONS AND EXEMPTIONS, ET CETERA, MAYBE THERE NEEDS TO BE TIMELINES.
SO THE MAYOR HAS A PROBLEM OR HAS EXPRESSED FRUSTRATION WITH PROJECTS IN TOWN THAT HAVE NO EXPIRATION DATE AND SIT UNADDRESSED.
SO IT IS ALREADY A FOCUS, NOT SPECIFIC TO THE HISTORIC RIGHT.
BUT IF THEY'RE WORKING ON REWRITING THE ZONING ORDINANCES, NOW BE A C THERE SHOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE PLACE TO INSERT IT.
THERE SHOULD BE A C, THERE'S AN A AND A B ARE YOU'RE SAYING IN IN OUR IN CODE? NO, SHE'S IN THE CODE.
NO, I'M IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO 1 75 92 ISSUANCE AND CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
SO WITHIN 15 DAYS OF YOUR MEETING, I HAVE TO SIGN THEIR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND THEN IT'S ROUTED OUT TO THEM.
SO AFTER THESE MEETINGS I SIGN AND THEY GET THEIR, THEIR INFORMATION.
BUT THEN THE NEXT ONE B HAS THIS 12 MONTH BASICALLY STATUTE, BUT THEN THERE'S NOTHING ELSE AFTER IT.
LIKE, LIKE IN THE P AND D SECTION WHERE IT GIVES 'EM 12 MONTHS TO HAVE AN APPROVED SITE PLAN.
AND IF THEY DON'T, THEY COME TO COUNCIL ONE TIME FOR ONE EXTENSION.
THERE'S NOTHING IN HERE ABOUT LIMITING AN EXTENSION OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT THAT IT JUST STOPPED.
SO THAT IS A SHORTCOMING IN THE CODE AND WE NEED TO HAVE A C OR LIKE A NEXT ONE.
UM, THAT WOULD LIMIT THIS POTENTIALLY ONE EXTENSION.
AND WHERE IS ALL OF OUR OTHER, UM, EVEN THOUGH SOMETHING'S IN VIOLATION, THEY STILL HAVE THAT OPTION TO HAVE FOR 12 MONTHS TO DO VIOLATIONS.
WELL, THEY HAVE 12 MONTHS TO DO THE WORK THAT THEY'VE BEEN APPROVED TO DO.
SO IT'S KIND OF HARD FROM A AM I GONNA TAKE THEM TO COURT BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN, THEY'VE GIVEN A 12 MONTH WINDOW AND IT'S 11 MONTHS AND ANYTHING.
AND THEN WE HAVE TO EXCEED THAT 12 MONTH PERIOD.
SO THEN I'VE GOTTA HAVE SOME KIND OF FLAG THAT TELLS ME, OKAY, THIS WAS EXACTLY ONE YEAR AGO AND THEN I NEED TO GO OUT AND RIGHT NOW I WOULD'VE TO GO OUT AND DO AN INSPECTION AND SEE DID THEY DO ANYTHING.
AND, AND WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TRACK THAT.
SO YOU DO HAVE, YOU CAN VIOLATE HIM THEN IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND TAKE HIM TO COURT.
AT THAT 12 MONTH MARK VIOLATING HIM, I THINK THAT'S WHAT I'M WORKING DO RIGHT NOW.
WHAT AM I VIOLATING HIM FOR IS HE DIDN'T DO THE WORK.
SO NOW HE'S GOT AN EXPIRED PERMIT.
BUT THEN HOW WOULD I VIOL THEN A VIOLATION BE A PERMIT ISN'T A REQUIREMENT.
UNLESS YOU DO IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU DO, I MEAN THE ORIGINAL VIOLATION WAS PUTTING IN WINDOWS WITHOUT ANY PERMIT REGARDLESS OF COA.
SO HE HE'S JUST REMAINED TAKING HIM BACK.
BUT WE DON'T HAVE A TIME LIMIT ON THE ZONING END OF IT.
THERE'S NO TIME LIMIT ON ZONING IN THE NEW ORDINANCE.
THE NEW ORDINANCE, THERE IS A TIME, PERMITS ARE ONE YEAR AND THEY EXPIRE.
AND THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT AND THE COUNTY, THEY HAVE A ONE YEAR, BUT THEY CAN EXTEND FOR SIX MONTHS AND THEY GO IN MM-HMM
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A LIMITATION ON THAT.
IT JUST SEEMS LIKE SOMEBODY IN VIOLATION.
IT, IT, THERE SHOULD, THERE SHOULD BE DIFFERENT RULES OR SOMETHING.
THAT'S BECAUSE HE'S IN VIOLATION
THERE'S NO CONSEQUENCES TO THAT'S RIGHT.
IT'S LOVELY WHEN PEOPLE DO WHAT, BUT HE SUPPOSED BUT HE'S DENIED APPROVAL TO PUT VINYL WINDOWS IN.
WE WAS ALREADY PUT THEY'RE ALREADY THERE.
I KNOW, BUT WHAT, BUT DO, DO YOU FEEL IT'S REASONABLE TO GO ASK A JUDGE FOR A COURT ORDER TO MAKE SOMEBODY PULL OUT BRAND NEW VINYL WINDOWS AND REPLACE 'EM WITH BRAND NEW WOOD WINDOWS? YES.
AND THAT'S A GOOD USE OF TIME.
AND THAT IS A DETRIMENT TO HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE OF SOMEBODY OR THE CITIZENS.
UM, SO IF THAT'S YOUR BASIS FOR EVERY, IF THAT IS YOUR BASIS FOR EVERY TIME YOU GO TO COURT, THERE IS NO REASON FOR US TO HAVE THIS BAR.
WELL, SOMEHOW, I MEAN THE POINT IS, WE ARE ALL IN SECTION 1 75.
THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS THE, THE, THE STATE HAS TOLD US THAT WE CAN DO HISTORIC PRESERVATION AS A MATTER OF HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE.
[01:05:01]
RIGHT.THE QUESTION IS HOW, HOW FORCEFUL, BUT THEN THE, THE QUESTION IS, WELL, AND I I THOUGHT THIS WAS WHERE, WHERE YOU WERE GOING, UH, LAUREN WAS DOES, DOES REGULAR ZONING HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM THAT WE DO? IS IT THE SAME? YOU, YOU, YOU BUILT A STRUCTURE, YOU KNOW, THAT HAD THAT WAS TOO BIG OR TOO CLOSE TO THE LOT LINE OR WHATEVER WE GAVE.
HONESTLY, IT'S EASIER TO GET COMPLIANCE OUTSIDE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT THAN IT IS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT BECAUSE OF THE EXTRA PARAMETERS.
AND THEN THE QUESTION WOULD BE, WELL WHY, WHY SHOULDN'T ALL THOSE ENFORCEMENT MECHANISMS JUST BE IN SECTION 1 75 AND BASICALLY SAY IF YOU'RE DOING ANYTHING FOR HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE, HERE'S HOW THE TOWN MAKES YOU DO IT.
WHETHER IT'S ENTRY CORRIDOR OR HISTORIC OR, OR LIKE, I I I THINK I JUST WANT FOR THE BAR, THE SAME RULES THAT REGULAR ZONING RULES HAVE AS FAR AS ENFORCEMENT, AS FAR AS ENFORCEMENT, AND AS FAR AS, UH, YOU KNOW, IF I WRAP IT IN PINK
'CAUSE I KNOW NONE OF YOU ALL WANNA SIT HERE UNTIL EIGHT 30 OR NINE O'CLOCK AT NIGHT, EITHER
ISN'T THERE YOU UP THERE? I THINK OF THE TENANTS LIVING IN THAT BUILDING AND FINAL WINDOWS, WINDOWS ARE BETTER THAN NO, WHO KNOWS.
UM, ARE THEY LESS HEALTHY? ARE THEY LESS SAFE BECAUSE THERE'S VINYL WINDOWS VERSUS FOOT WINDOWS.
APPARENTLY THE STATE OF VIRGINIA ALLOWS US TO SAY IT'S WELFARE.
RIGHT? UM, YEAH, I CAN MAKE ARGUMENTS ON ALL SIDES LIKE AN ATTORNEY.
'CAUSE I'VE BEEN DOING ENFORCEMENT FOR THE GOVERNMENT FOR 16 YEARS IF HE'S DONE IT ALREADY.
AND THE IDEA IS WE SHOULD GO ACROSS THE STREET AND MAKE HIM UNDO IT, THEN YOU CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT, WHY CAN'T WE MAKE EVERYBODY ELSE ON THIS STREET GO UNDO WHAT THEY DID THAT'S IN VIOLATION OF THE BAR IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND WHERE DOES IT END? UM, RIGHT.
WE DON'T WANNA PUNISH HIM FOR COMING TO US AND WE DO WANNA PUNISH HIM FOR IGNORING US.
AND THEN IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO THE HARD SPOTS ME.
BUT SERIOUSLY, IF THAT'S THE MENTALITY, I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, DANIEL, AGAIN, IT, WE EXIST FOR THE RULE FOLLOWERS OF THE WORLD AND ONLY FOR THE RULE FOLLOWERS OF THE WORLD.
HOW IS IT FAIR TO MR. DIETRICH WHO CAME IN HERE? RIGHT.
AND WE MADE HIM COMPLY AND HE JUST HAPPENED TO BE A CITIZEN WHO FOLLOWS THE RULES AFTER WE TELL HIM WHAT TO DO.
HE GOT CHARGED DOUBLE BECAUSE HE DID IT WITHOUT A PERMIT.
BUT HE WENT BACK AND HE FIXED IT.
HE WENT BACK AND HE, I DID WHAT WE ASKED HIM TO DO AND AND ATTORNEY.
AND ACCORDING TO THIS, HE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE TO, HE JUST DID IT BECAUSE HE FILED BROKE.
WELL, SO I THAT'S NOT FAIR EITHER TO THOSE PEOPLE.
SO NO, BUT IT'S ALSO NOT FAIR WHEN SOMEBODY ON SHENANDOAH AVENUE GOT APPROVED TO JUST DO FRONT WOOD WINDOWS AND THE REST COULD STAY VINYL WHEN SHE WAS IN VIOLATION.
BUT MR. BANG, CAN'T YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? SO AGAIN, THERE IS INCONSISTENCY AND I'M NOT SAYING I WON'T GO ACROSS THE STREET AND GET EVERYBODY ON THIS STREET IF I NEED TO.
HOW, HOW DO WE GET 'EM? 'CAUSE EVEN IF YOU GO GET A COURT ORDER RIGHT, THAT DOESN'T MAKE HIM RIP OUT WINDOWS AND HAVE THE FUNDS TO PUT, YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET A MARSHAL OF THE CROW WIRE.
AND THEN I THINK ABOUT THE, THE OTHER FOLKS, AND I'M TRYING NOT TO NAME NAMES.
A COUPLE DOORS DOWN FROM HIM THAT PUT IN WOOD WINDOWS THAT LOOKED VINYL AND THEY WERE APPROVED.
SO IF YOU CAN PUT IN WOOD WINDOWS THAT LOOK VINYL, WHAT'S THE, THE POINT OF WOOD WINDOWS, RIGHT? FINE.
THAT CAN LOOK VINYL, BUT NOT VINYL WINDOWS THAT LOOK VINYL.
I, I MEAN THAT, I MEAN THAT IS WHERE I WAS GOING, WHICH WAS IF HE FOUND HIMSELF ON AN APPEAL IN FRONT OF THE TOWN COUNCIL, OR IF HE FOUND HIMSELF COMING BACK NEXT MONTH FOR A, AN ATTEMPT TO RECONSIDER
[01:10:01]
THE, THE POINT WAS IF HE COULD SHOW THAT A DOUBLE PAIN, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, A 3D MU NARROW SIDED THING COULD BE MADE OUT OF VINYL AND, AND, AND THEN WE WOULD BE FORCED TO DO A TRADE OFF THAT WOULD PROBABLY SAY, WELL THE, THE RIGHT WAY TO INSTALL THIS IS ACTUALLY TO TAKE OUT THE WOOD THAT'S THERE.AND THEN, YOU KNOW, UM, AND THAT'S HOW YOU GET THE LOOK.
BUT POINT IS, I, I'M OPEN TO THAT CONVERSATION 'CAUSE BECAUSE IT IS, I I I I'M NOT HAPPY GETTING WOOD THINGS THAT LOOK UGLY RIGHT NOW.
I'M SAYING THAT THAT WOOD IS MY BEST BET FOR WHAT I CAN TELL HIM TO DO THAT WILL ACTUALLY LOOK RIGHT AND MAYBE LICENSED CONTRACTORS TO DO YOUR WORK.
UM, ALRIGHT, WELL WE SHOULD HAVE SAID OKAY, I JUST WANTED THOSE CONCERNS OUT THERE BECAUSE I, I MEAN I, THIS WAS A HARD ONE FOR ME.
LIKE, WE'VE ALREADY MADE THIS DECISION RIGHT.
AND JUST 12 MONTHS LATER, SO MY GIVE 12 MORE MONTHS.
WELL AND YOU DID NOT BRING UP WHAT HE BROUGHT UP IN THE OFFICE, WHICH ONE OF THE REASONS HE WAS REAPPLYING WAS TO GET APPROVED TO DO WOOD FRONTS AND THE REST VINYL SO THAT HE COULD SAVE MONEY.
AND THAT CAME UP NOWHERE, NOWHERE IN THE MEETING BY EITHER ONE OF 'EM.
SO IT WASN'T SO MUCH, I'M JUST TRYING, AGAIN, IT WAS MORE LIKE, CAN I NOT, CAN I SAVE MONEY BY DOING NINE WOOD RIGHT.
BUT AGAIN, THAT WASN'T THE, NOW I, THE PATH THAT HE CHOSE TO LIKE I'D BE A SUCKER FOR THAT AND, BUT I ALSO UNDERSTAND WHY, WHY AT THE SAME TIME I MIGHT NOT VOTE FOR IT, UH, BECAUSE OF THAT ENFORCEMENT AND, AND CALENDARING AND TIMELINE.
AND IT SHOULDN'T BE THAT YOU CAN JUST ROPE A DOPE LONG ENOUGH.
AND, AND WAIT FOR KEVIN'S BLOOD SUGAR TO BE LOW ENOUGH.
YOU'LL GET, UH, YOU'LL GET WHAT YOU'RE APPLYING FOR.
SO I DON'T, I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE MYSELF OPEN TO THAT EITHER.
SO ALL IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE FOR THE GOOD OF THE CAUSE THIS EVENING I'VE COMPLAINED ENOUGH.
YEAH, ABOUT 14 EAST MAIN STREET.
SO ITS THE CORNER OF MAIN AND WATER WHERE THE STORM DAMAGE STRIP THE ELECTRICAL LINES OUTTA THE WALL.
IS NON-CON A NON-CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE.
COAS WERE ADMINISTRATIVE 'CAUSE IT'S NON-CONTRIBUTING.
THEIR EMERGENCY WORK PERMITS WERE APPROVED LAST WEEK.
THEY'LL HAVE ELECTRICAL INSPECTIONS THIS WEEK.
THE PROPERTY OWNER CAME IN TODAY AND SUBMITTED APPLICATIONS TO REDO THE WHOLE BUILDING.
WAIT DOWN JUST THE LITTLE BUILDING.
NOT THE WHOLE, THE LITTLE TUTOR STYLE.
THE WORK STARTS IN THE NEXT, I DON'T THINK IT'S FROM JAMES.
LAUREN, WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST SAY, ELLIE, DON'T CALL ME
THIS MESSAGE ISN INTENDED FOR ME.
THREE WEEKS OR SO WHEN THEY START WORKING
SO WE'VE ALSO TOLD THEM, HEY, WE NEED TO GET THAT STRAIGHT OPENED UP.
SO I'M HOPING THAT THEY GET EVERYTHING DONE BECAUSE THE FIRE MARSHAL RECORD IS WHAT UNSAFE.
UM, THE TREE FELL ON THE LINE AND IT WAS JUST RUSHED AND EVERYTHING.
UM, BUT THEY SUBMITTED THEIR COA AND THEIR ZONING PERMIT OR APPLICATION TODAY.
THEY'LL, THEY'LL START WITHIN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS.
IT'LL TAKE 'EM TWO TO PLAN, TWO TO THREE WEEKS TO FINISH.
AND I THINK EVERYBODY WILL BE PLEASED WITH HOW IT LOOKS.
SO IT IT IS IN THAT CATEGORY OF LIKE NEW CONSTRUCTION.
UH, IT SHOULD BE COMPATIBLE BUT NOT FAKEY HISTORICAL.
IT'S NOT, I DON'T THINK THAT HE'S TRYING TO MAKE IT LOOK COMPLETELY AUTHENTIC.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S, WAIT, IS HE TEARING IT DAN? NO, NO.
HE'S JUST GOTTA MAKE IT, HE'S GOTTA STABILIZE IT.
SO, UM, BUT HE'S GONNA DO BOREDOM BATTEN ON THE BOTTOM AND THEN, UH, SHAKE ON THE UPPER PORTION AND THEN IT'S GONNA HAVE LIKE THIS COBBLESTONE COLORED TRIM.
UM, AND WE, THAT, TO ME THAT SOUNDS LIKE THE HISTORIC, THAT'S THE PART WHERE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS DOING ITS WORK AND IT, IT, IT DIDN'T NEED US TO GET RIGHT.
[01:15:01]
RIGHT.LOOKING, UM, HE BROUGHT EVERYTHING WITH HIM AND, AND LITERALLY SAT DOWN WITH DANIEL AND I TODAY AND WE WORKED WITH HIS CONTRACTOR TO HELP HIM MOVE FORWARD QUICKLY AND TO GET THAT STRAIGHT.
WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER PART OF THAT'S GOT A PLAN.
THAT'S COLORS MARKET, RIGHT? THAT WHAT PEOPLE CALL IT STOKES MARKET.
THE, THE, NOT THE GENERAL STORE.
THAT WAS STOKES GROCERY STREET.
UM, HE'S GOT A PLAN FOR THAT TOO.
WILL THAT BE COMING BEFORE THE BAR? THAT'S NOT, NO, THAT WAS NON CONTRIBUTING TOO.
BOTH OF THOSE, FOR SOME REASON THAT WHOLE PROPERTY WAS DEEMED NON-CONTRIBUTING.
WELL, I MEAN, IT DOES HAVE IT, I MEAN IT HAS A NICE STANDING SEAM.
WHAT IS IT LIKE A TIN ROOF THERE? THAT'S, YEAH.
AND THEN THEY'VE GOT THE CUPOLA ON IT.
THAT LITTLE YOU WANNA CALL IT.
THEY TRIED
THAT'S WHAT I NOTICED ABOUT IT, IS THE SCALE OF IT IS JUST, AND THERE WERE A FEW, I MEAN, I WILL FOREVER BE HEARTSICK OVER THE SHINGLES AND NOT THE METAL.
AND I'LL STAND ON THE HILL UNTIL I DAY I DIE.
THEY PUT EXTRA WINDOWS IN THERE THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE TO PUT IN.
THE COLUMNS ARE THE CRAFTSMAN COLUMNS, AND HE MADE THOSE HIMSELF.
TEDDY MADE THEM, HE DROVE AROUND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT LOOKING AT OTHER COLUMNS AND HE MADE THEM.
SO I'VE ASKED THE NEWSPAPER TO WRITE A STORY ABOUT THAT IN AND INCLUDING THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING NOW ON THE REWRITE OF THE GUIDELINES, JUST SO YOU KNOW THAT.
WELL, THAT SHOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF HOW TO DO IT.
THERE SHOULD BE A PHOTO IN THERE OF THIS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF A NEW CONSTRUCTION THAT YES.
SO I'VE PUT THAT OUT THERE TO THE NV DAILY AND JUST SAID, I THINK YOU SHOULD WRITE A STORY ABOUT THIS.
AND IT IS INTERESTING THAT THE FEDERAL DISTRICT DOES, DID INCLUDE, LIKE, YOU WOULD'VE GOTTEN TWO OF THOSE IF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT HAD CONTINUED BACK TO BACK.
RIGHT NOW IT'S, IT'S A VERY POWERFUL CONTRAST BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN REALLY, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE EVER DRIVEN FROM DETROIT TO GROSS POINT SHORES IN MICHIGAN, BUT YOU REALLY FEEL THE JURISDICTIONAL BOUNDARY WHEN YOU, UH, CROSS.
AND, AND WE GOT OUR OWN LITTLE VERSION OF THAT RIGHT THERE.
UM, SO, UM, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE ADJOURN? I SEE IT, NO.
SO CAN I GET A MOTION TO ADJOURN THIS MEETING? I'LL MOTION TO A SECOND.