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RIGHT.[Planning and Zoning Work Session on June 3, 2026.]
SO WE'RE GONNA JUMP INTO THE FIRST THING ON THE AGENDA IS, UH, A SPECIAL USE PERMIT SUBMITTED BY ANDRE A MA SANTOS MONTE MONTECITO ON BEHALF OF THE PROPERTY OWNER, EAGLE SKY, INDUSTRIAL PARK, LLC, TO ALLOW AN AUTOMOBILE GRAVEYARD JUNKYARD LOCATED 5 0 8 KENDRICK LANE, IDENTIFIED BY TAX MAP NUMBER 20 A ONE DASH THREE DASH FOUR.PROPERTY IS LOCATED, IS ZONED I TWO INDUSTRIAL EMPLOYMENT DISTRICT.
AND I'LL TURN IT OVER TO JOHN AND LAUREN, WHOEVER WANTS TO TALK TO THIS MAP UP REAL QUICK.
THE APPLICANT INITIALLY HAD SUBMITTED TWO SEPARATE LOCATIONS.
SO, UM, ONE LOCATION IS GOVERNED BY THE CLEAN WATER PROJECT.
SO THERE WERE COVENANTS THAT WOULD RESTRICT THEM FROM OPERATING THERE.
SO THAT WAS THE SOUTHERN PORTION OF THEIR PROPERTY.
UM, AND THERE WAS A CLAUSE IN THERE THAT SAID JUNK WAS NOT PERMITTED.
STAFF GOT CLARIFICATION FROM THEM THAT CARS WITHOUT CATALYTIC CONVERTERS CONSTITUTE JUNK.
UM, SO THEY HAD, THEY THEN SUBMITTED THEIR STATEMENT OF JUSTIFICATION WITH THE LOCATION BEING AT NORTHERN INTENT OF THE PROPERTY.
UM, AND THEN THIS OPEN CLEARING, BUT THEY DIDN'T SPECIFY EXACTLY WHERE.
UM, SO IT'S A, I THINK IT'S LIKE, WHAT IS IT? SIX ACRE PARCEL.
UM, SO FOR YOUR PURPOSES, YOU COULD, YOU WOULD NEED A CONDITION, IF YOU'RE WANTING TO CONSIDER THIS, UM, THE SURFACE THAT, OR THE SUBSTRATE, THESE CORRECTED JUNK VEHICLES WOULD BE ON.
'CAUSE THIS IS FOR AN AUTOMOBILE GRAVEYARD JUNK YARD.
SO THE APPLICANT WANTS TO TAKE THE PIECES OUT OF THESE CARS.
THEY'RE NO LONGER OPERABLE, AND THEN THEY JUST, UM, STORE THEM UNTIL THEY TAKE 'EM ELSEWHERE TO GET, I GUESS, WRECKED THE DUMP.
RECYCLED, RECYCLED, UM, THE STAFF IS CONCERNED BECAUSE IT'S SO CLOSE TO THE RIVER.
UM, AND I BELIEVE WHEN YOU DID SOME RESEARCH,
RIGHT? THAT, SO DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR MOTOR VEHICLES, THEY HAVE TO GET A PERMIT THROUGH THEM TO OPERATE THAT AFTER THEY GET ZONING APPROVAL.
UH, SO THE ZONING APPROVAL WILL BE, BE THE FIRST STEP FOR THEM TO GET A PERMIT AND HAVE LOCAL ZONING APPROVAL BEFORE THE DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES WILL GIVE THEM A PERMIT TO OPERATE A SALVAGE YARD HERE IN THE COMMONWEALTH.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE, I MEAN, WHAT IS THE DMV UM, DO? LIKE, WHAT ARE THEY LOOKING AT? UH, IT HAS TO DO WITH TRANSFER TITLES AND OKAY.
AND WHERE THEY GET THE VEHICLES FROM.
UM, WE HAD TO KEEP A LOG OF THE VEHICLES COMING IN AND OUT.
UH, PLUS THE SITE CONDITIONS THERE, THEY WOULD REGULATE THE SPILL AND LEAK PREVENTION, UH, EMPLOYEE TRAINING, UH, MANAGEMENT OF RUNOFF, STORMWATER RUNOFF WITH THAT, UH, THROUGH THE DMV.
UH, 'CAUSE YOU HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT COMPONENTS WITH DIRECT SALVAGE VEHICLES, YOU KNOW, LOT OF FLUIDS COULD ESCAPE, UH, AND THINGS LIKE THAT DURING THE PROCESS.
SO THE VEHICLES WHEN THEY GET THERE, SO THEY ARE NOT ALREADY KIND OF SALVAGED, IN OTHER WORDS, THEY COME WHOLE NO, THEY'RE, YEAH, THEY COME WHOLE.
SO SOME OF THEM, THEY SAID WHEN HE MET WITH US THAT, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE, WE BUY CARS OR THERE'S THOSE PLACES, THEY'LL BUY THEM.
AND THEN I GUESS A LOT OF THESE CARS ARE WORTH MORE IN THEIR PARTS THAN THEY ARE RESELLING THEM.
SO LIKE WHEN WE WENT OUT THERE AND WE ASKED WHAT THEY WERE DOING, THE GUY SAID THAT HE WAS TAKING OUT THE CATS AND THE CATALYTIC CONVERTERS AND THEN, UH, THEY WERE STRIPPING OTHER PARTS OUT OF IT AND THEN THEY WERE JUST STACKING 'EM UP.
I WAS LIKE, WELL, WHOA, YOU CAN'T DO THIS.
SO THEN THEY FILED THE APPLICATION TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE,
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BUT AS WE WENT THROUGH THE INITIAL APPLICATION REVIEW, CLEAN WATER PROJECT INVOLVED, DMV, THAT INVOLVED.SO SINCE THEN THEY HAVE REMOVED EVERY VEHICLE OFF THE PROPERTY PERTAINING TO THIS USE AND THIS APPLICANT.
UM, AND THEY CANNOT GET APPROVAL FROM THE DMV UNLESS THEY GET APPROVAL HERE.
BUT YES, IT IS LIKE HIM TAKING THESE PIECES OUT AND THEN JUST STACKING CARS AND EVENTUALLY THE CARS GET REMOVED FROM RECYCLING.
SO IF THIS IS SOMETHING YOU GUYS WANT TO ENTERTAIN AND BECAUSE THEY JUST KIND OF LISTED THE ENTIRE LOT, YOU WOULD WANT TO POTENTIALLY LIMIT THE AREA FROM THE LOT WHERE THIS WOULD OCCUR.
YOU COULD SUGGEST THEM HAVING TO IN BURNS, LANDSCAPING, ANYTHING TO MAKE IT, SO THIS IS THE
WOULD THEY BE EATING WAREHOUSES, PUT STUFF IN? NO, I THINK IT WOULD BE LIKE PEANUTS RIGHT NEXT DOOR WHERE YOU, THEY'RE JUST STORED OUT IN THE OPEN
SO WHAT'S LEFT AFTER THEY TAKE THESE PIECES OUT IS JUST THE, BRING THE CAR, REST OF THE CAR.
SO THEY TAKE THE STUFF, THE VALUABLE THINGS AWAY.
THEY WON'T BE STORING THEM THERE IN THE WAREHOUSE ON SITE.
UH, SINCE YOU SAID THAT THE, UH, ADDRESS HAD CHANGED, SO THE HIGHLIGHTED PORTION OF ON UP, IS THAT STILL CORRECT? NO, IT WOULD BE THE DRAWING WITH THE RED.
SO THE TOP, THE NORTH, THE NORTH END.
SO IT IS TRULY THE NORTH END THAT IT SOUTH YEAH.
TWO DRAWING SHOWS SOUTH AND ONE DRAWING SHOWS NORTH END.
THAT AND IT IS JUST, THE NORTH END WAS A LITTLE HARD TO UNDERSTAND, BUT UH, IS THIS THE RIGHT ONE? NO.
LAUREN, WHICH ONE DO YOU, YOU WANT THE UPPER OR LOWER? THIS IS THE LOWER, SO PROBABLY HERE.
SO ZOOM, WHERE'S APEX? THIS IS APEX.
AND SO YOU JUST GO ALL THE WAY.
SO LIKE, THAT'S THE POLICE STATION.
MY, MY SECOND JOB IS RIGHT THERE.
SO YOU'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THAT.
AND HE IS GETTING READY TO BUILD A FORM, NOT MM-HMM
WELL, I MEAN, YEAH, WE'LL LOOK AT THIS ONE FIRST AS IT AS IT STANDS.
UM, UM, THERE'S, THERE'S SOME SOME REAL BIG PROBLEMS THOUGH WITH THIS SITE BECAUSE IT'S PROXIMITY TO THE RIVER.
WELL, THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING.
I WAS LIKE, FROM A LANDSCAPING PERS PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S NOT THE PRETTIEST AREA OF TOWN.
NOT BEAUTIFUL BY ANY STRETCH OF IMAGINATION.
BUT, BUT THAT'S MORE CONCERNING TO ME ABOUT, YEAH.
AND THERE'S, THERE'S A BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS ABOUT THE FEMA AND THE FLOOD PLAIN ORDINANCE ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE, WELL, SO WITH THIS PIECE, THIS SECTIONS OUTSIDE, IT SEEMS TO BE RIGHT, RIGHT OUTSIDE, BUT IT DOESN'T COUNT THE SLOPES AND THE DRAINAGE THAT GOES ALONG, WHICH, WHICH WOULD FLOW INTO THE, UM, INTO THE RIVER THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT.
UH, AND IS THERE ANY EXISTING DRAINS ON THE SITE NOW THAT ARE EMPTYING INTO THE RIVER? YES.
SO FIVE YEARS AGO WHEN I FIRST STARTED, THERE WAS A SINKHOLE.
WELL WE'RE, WE'RE DO THAT AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS PROPERTY, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO ALL OF THIS SLOPES AND DRAINS DOWN INTO, WHAT WAS THAT SINKHOLE, WHICH HAS SINCE FULFILLED.
I WOULD HIGHLY ENCOURAGE ALL OF YOU TO GO DO A SITE VISIT.
I'VE BEEN OUT THERE AND YOU'LL SEE THERE'S A, AN INLET
THERE APPEARS TO BE A, WELL, THERE IS A VERY LARGE PILE OF RIVER ROCK.
I'M THINKING IT MAY BE DIVERTING SOME WATER.
'CAUSE IT LOOKS AS THOUGH THE WATER'S NOT MAKING IT TO THAT INLET.
AND INSTEAD IT'S CHANNELING OFF TO THE LEFT.
SO YOU CAN SEE SIGNIFICANT EROSION.
AND THEN THE STORM, THE CULVERT IS PARTIALLY, UM, COLLAPSED, THAT IS CONNECTED TO THE INLET.
SO NOW THIS, THAT'S PART, THERE'S CERTAINLY SOME DRAINAGE CONSIDERATIONS IN, WELL, AND THAT GETS INTO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WE, WHEN THE ON THE KAR, WHEN TOP TOPOGRAPHY MM-HMM
THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE, UM, IN THE DRAINAGE.
AND THAT'S BASICALLY THE, OUR SOIL IS VERY POOR FILTERING.
AND, UM, SO IT WOULD TEND, AND, AND UNDER THE RIVER
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AND AROUND IT, THERE'S LOTS OF CAVES THAT ARE FLOODED.AND THIS WOULD TEND TO DRAIN INTO THAT ALONG THE RIVER.
NOW THERE'S DIFFERENT MAPS OUT THERE.
WE'RE LOOKING AT SOME PUTS, PUT US PUT THAT PROPERTY IN SOME PUT IT RIGHT ADJACENT TO, BUT IF THERE'S A SINKHOLE ON THE PROPERTY, THAT'S ONE OF THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THIS SORT OF TOPOGRAPHY YEAH.
SO I I, THAT BRINGS UP SOME REALLY LARGE CONCERNS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE ANSWERED.
AND, AND THAT WOULD TAKE THE EPA TO ANSWER THAT CONCERN.
NOW, THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE GONNA GO OUT AND LOOK AT OR DO OR DO BOAR SAMPLES OR TRACE WATER PLUGS.
AND IF THERE'S EXISTING DRAINS LOOKING AT THE, THE, THE WAY, UM, TOPOGRAPHY OF IT, IT CLEARLY EMPTIES INTO THE FLOODPLAIN AREA OF IT.
SO IF YOU WERE TO PERMIT THIS, I YOU WOULD POTENTIALLY WANT TO PERMIT IT AS TO THE LIKE SOUTHERNMOST PORTION OF THAT LOT THAT YOU HAD CLOSEST TO THAT WOOD SHOP JUST RIGHT ON THE TOP.
I, I DON'T SEE, I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO PERMIT IN ANY FORM BECAUSE OF THAT.
AND, AND THAT'S, WE HAVE SOME SORT OF SORT OF PROOF THAT NONE, NONE OF THAT IS GOING TO OCCUR.
AND, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW, HOW TO GET THAT.
I DON'T KNOW IF THE, YOU COULD EVENTUALLY, BECAUSE IT IS NOT A TRIVIAL STUDY THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE IN ORDER TO USE THE LAND IN THAT CAPACITY.
AND WARREN COUNTY HAS A BUNCH OF WRITE-UPS IN THEIR, UM, DOCUMENTATION CONSIDERING THIS, THIS TYPE OF ISSUE OR THIS TYPE OF SOIL SO ON TOO.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S JUST A PRETTY BIG CONCERN ON MOVING FORWARD WITH THAT.
SO THE CONCERN IS BECAUSE OF THE TYPE OF FLUIDS THAT THEY WOULD NEED.
UM, IS IT, IS, ARE THOSE TYPES OF FLUIDS PARTICULARLY DAMAGING TO THE SOIL? SORRY, BEAR WITH ME.
I'M THINKING IN TERMS OF, IS IT ANY KIND OF LIKE THE ERO THAT, AND I'M TALKING THINKING IN TERMS OF EROSION, BUT ANYBODY DISPOSING OF ANYTHING THERE WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO EROSION? RIGHT.
IT'S LESS ABOUT EROSION AND MORE ABOUT TOXICITY.
TOXICITY OF THE WATER TABLE ITES INTO THE WATER TABLE IS WHAT WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT.
WE GONNA HOLD IT, BUT THEN OVER TIME IT'S GONNA MIGRATE THROUGH THE SOIL AND EVENTUALLY GET INTO THE WATER.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S REALLY LIKE, THERE'S NO WAY AROUND THAT.
I MEAN, I CAN'T SEE IT, BUT WHEN YOU'RE TAKING A CAR APART, YOU DON'T JUST LET THE RADIATED DRAIN ON THE GROUND.
I MEAN, YOU HAVE SOME RECEPTACLE THERE TO COLLECT IT AND THEN YOU DUMP THAT INTO A BARREL.
BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE'S NOT RESIDUE OR LEFTOVER BITS THAT WOULD ACTUALLY DROP THEM DOWN.
IF ANYBODY'S EVER BEEN TO A JUNKYARD
THERE'S STILL A CHANCE THAT YOU'RE STACKING CARS ON TOP OF ONE ANOTHER.
YOU'VE GOT A NUMBER OF VEHICLES THAT INCREASES THE CAPACITY OF THE VEHICLES.
AND EVEN IF THEY ARE JUNK AND STUFF'S TAKEN APART, IT CAN STILL HAVE OIL, GASOLINE, RADIATOR FLUID.
WELL, BUT THERE ALREADY IS A JUNKYARD THERE THROUGH THE, WELL, THERE IS, THERE'S SOMETHING LIKE A JUNKY YARD OFF TO THE RIGHT THERE WHERE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IT'S TOWING.
AND, UH, BUT WHATEVER SINS THAT THEY MAY BE DOING DOESN'T MEAN WE NEED TO REPEAT IT OR CONTINUE ON.
WELL, WE PERMITTED AUTO CEMETERIES, RIGHT.
WHEN WE WENT THROUGH AND DID THE INDUSTRIAL REGULATIONS.
SO WHAT DID WE SAY IN THERE WAS OUR REQUIREMENTS? WELL, IT'S A SPECIAL USE PERMIT YEAH.
GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS THAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW.
BUT WHAT WAS OUR, WHAT WAS OUR, UH, CAN WE TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT WAS OUR PERFORMANCE STANDARD FOR THAT? I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE ENUMERATED PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR EVERY POSSIBLE USE.
WE DON'T, WE DON'T THAT THAT'S WHAT THAT LEADS IT UP TO THIS PROCESS TO GO DO THAT HOMEWORK, WHETHER IT'S APPROPRIATE NOT, SO WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT SETTING, I THINK THE CONCERN IS THAT IT'S SO CLOSE TO THE RIVER.
AND, AND CLEARLY YOU JUST ENUMERATED THE SINK HOLE, WHICH IS, WHICH IS THE RED FLAG THAT THAT IS
WELL, SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THAT SINKHOLE TOO, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S NECESSARILY THAT THERE'S LIMESTONE SUBSTRATE OR THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT PORTION OF TOWN AS WHOLE, EVERYTHING DRAINS DOWN TO THIS SITE.
SO THE, UM, RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD JUST ABOVE IT, IT'S ALL UPHILL.
THERE'S A POINT KENDRICK CLAIM WHERE YOU GO UP THE HILL AND SO EVERYTHING THERE JUST GOES INTO THE SITE WHERE WE'RE NOW TALKING ABOUT PUTTING A JUNKYARD WITH ALL THAT FLOWING THROUGH IT.
BUT TO THE APPLICANT'S CREDIT ALSO, I MEAN, IT'S
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ALWAYS BEEN AN INDUSTRIAL SITE.YOU HAVE AN EXISTING JUNKYARD THERE.
UM, IS THAT SHOWING WHICH STARTED THERE BEFORE? UM, I THINK BEFORE WE HAD ANY OF THESE REGULATIONS.
OR JUST TOWING? WELL, THIS GARAGE AND TOWING THE TOW YARD AT, THERE'S NO, IT LOOKS JUNK AN AN AUTOMOBILE GRAVEYARD YET, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S PRETTY BIG.
I MEAN THIS IS, IT'S CLOSE TO THE RIVER.
THAT'S THE AREA IF I, THAT'S ALL.
HISTORICALLY THAT WERE BE PERMITTED TODAY IF YOU HAD THE SAME PROBLEM.
I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT THAT WOULD BE PERMITTED TODAY.
AND SO LIKE A COUPLE MONTHS AGO WHEN YOU DID THAT AUTOMOBILE STORAGE YARD AND THE SP FOR THAT, AND THAT WAS IN THE FLOODWAY, UM, THAT WAS A LITTLE DIFFERENT BECAUSE THAT WAS TEMPORARY STORAGE.
AND IT WASN'T, AND IT WASN'T RED CARS, IT SPECIFICALLY WAS NOT JUNKING AND WE CLARIFIED THAT MM-HMM
UM, NO, THAT WAS A DIFFERENT CASE.
SO WHAT WE CAN DO IS PUT TOGETHER A LIST OF QUESTIONS SO THE APPLICANT ABSOLUTELY.
AND THEN WE RELAY THAT TO THEM.
AND YOU KNOW, WHEN THE PUBLIC HEARING COMES, YOU CAN ASK THEM THE QUESTIONS AND THEY'LL AT LEAST BE PREPARED.
IS THERE, UM, IF WE ASK HIM FOR AN EPA STUDY ON THE SPOT, HE ISN'T GONNA BE ABLE TO PRODUCE ONE OBVIOUSLY.
SO HOW DO WE HANDLE, BUT YOU MAY ALSO WANNA BE REASONABLE ABOUT WHETHER EPA STUDY OR WOULD A, AN ENGINEER SIGNING OFF ON SOME ENVIRONMENTAL LIKE IMPACT STATEMENT OR ANALYSIS.
YOU, YOU COULD CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
AFTER, AFTER SEEKING ADDITIONAL INFORMATION OR CLARIFICATION OR, OKAY.
IF, IF IT, SO YOU DON'T WANNA CLOSE IT UNTIL YOU HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION.
BECAUSE ULTIMATELY IT WOULD NEED SOMETHING LIKE AN ENGINEER ENGINEER WOULD THE RIGHT KIND OF ENGINEERING FIRM TO DO THAT.
WE WANT AN ENVIRONMENTAL, IT WOULD BE AN ENVIRONMENTAL AND IT WOULD BE, IT'D BE AN EXTENSIVE STUDY.
WHY IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE SANCTIONED BY THE EPA OR EPA SIGNED OFF ON IT.
WE DON'T ASK THAT OF OTHER USES IN THE INDUSTRIAL, I GUESS YOU, UH, PHASE ONE ENVIRONMENTAL SITE ASSESSMENT.
YOU'D WANT EITHER A PHASE ONE BE, BECAUSE THEY WILL HAVE TO HAVE A CERTIFICATION FROM EPA TO OPERATE TO THE JUNK.
THE STATE IS MY UNDERSTANDING FROM THE STATE.
I MEAN, UH, OR STATE WATER QUALITY, WHATEVER.
IT'S UNDER THE STATE WATER CONTROL BOARD.
THEY WILL HAVE TO HAVE THAT CERTIFICATION BEFORE THEY COULD OPEN ANYWAY IF THEY REGULATE DISCHARGES, UH, ASSOCIATED WITH INDUSTRIAL ACTIVITY.
WE'LL PUT TOGETHER A LIST OF QUESTIONS I GUESS ASSOCIATED.
IF I COULD BRING THE COMMISSION'S ATTENTION.
THERE IS ANOTHER DEFINITION IN THE ORDINANCE MM-HMM
IT'S NOT CLEAR EXACTLY FROM THE APPLICATION MM-HMM
BUT IT'S AUTOMOBILE WRECKING YARD, WHICH IS DEFINED AS AN AREA WE ARE DESTROYED, ABANDONED AND OBSOLETE AUTOMOBILES ARE DISASSEMBLED.
AND WHERE PARTS HAVE SAID DISASSEMBLED AUTOMOBILES ARE GENERALLY SOLD AND WHERE THE REMAINING AUTOMOBILE BODIES AND THEIR COMPONENTS ARE TEMPORARILY STORED UNTIL THEY CAN BE REMOVED OR REDUCED TO SCRAP METAL.
SO WHAT I YEAH, THAT SOUNDS FINDS AS INTERESTING AS THE TEMPORARY STORAGE.
WHAT DO THEY ULTIMATELY DO WITH THE CARCASSES? DO THEY SELL THEM TO SOMEBODY FOR THINK THEY CRUSHING AND MELT THEM DOWN BUT THEY DON'T DO THE CRUSHING THEMSELVES? THEY SELL NO IDEA.
DON'T SAY DON'T SAY THEY RIGHT THERE.
I THINK IT WAS THEY TOOK THEM TO RICHMOND, LIKE HAD HIM CARTED OFF TO RICHMOND.
HEY, WELL, WE'LL PUT TOGETHER A LIST OF QUESTIONS YEAH.
TO BRING TO, TO, TO THE, THE APPLICANT AND, AND SEE HOW THAT GOES AND IF NEED BE CONTINUE.
HOW MANY JOBS DID THIS SAY, DID THAT FILL UP IN YOUR YES.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN? ACCORDING, ACCORDING TO THE LETTER OF INTENT, THERE ARE SIX JOBS THAT PROVIDED BY THIS LOCATION.
IS IT POSSIBLE TO GIVE THE APPLICANT A HEADS UP? THIS IS COMING TO SO NOT SURPRISED AT THE, UM, PUBLIC HEARING.
SO AS SOON AS YOU GET ASKED YOUR QUESTIONS, WE'LL FORWARD THEM TO HIM AND, AND RECOMMEND THAT HE BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THESE AT THE PUBLIC HEARING.
AND OR PROVIDE THE INFORMATION AHEAD OF TIME.
ALRIGHT, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I WANNA MAKE SURE WE DON'T SPRING IT ON AT THE
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PUBLIC HEARING.ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THIS IN FOLKS? NO.
A SPECIAL EXCEPTION APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY RAMSEY FOR A SPECIAL SECTION FROM TOWN CODE 1 4 8 DASH P TWO DASH N DASH ONE DASH A ONE FOR THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT TEN ONE SIXTY WINCHESTER ROAD IDENTIFIED TAX MAP 20 A 24 SECTION ONE PARCEL SEVEN.
THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED IN R TWO RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT AND CONTAINS 1.283 ACRES AND DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIRED TWO ACRE MINIMUM.
SO THIS ONE, AFTER YOU READ ALL THAT, WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO PULL THIS ONE FOR THE EVENING, UM, TO SUBMIT THEIR SUBDIVISION PLAN AND APPLICATION TO GO WITH THIS.
AND THEN THIS ACTUALLY POTENTIALLY NOT COME BACK TO YOU, IT WOULD JUST GO STRAIGHT TO COUNCIL.
UM, ONCE WE GET THE NEW SUBDIVISION, IF AND WHEN WE GET THE NEW SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
SO BECAUSE OF THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, IT NO LONGER BE APPLICABLE TO HERE, IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? CORRECT.
IT'S ON A VERY PRACTICAL LEVEL.
WHEN I WENT TO TALK, NOT YADA, YADA YADA, UM, ON THE TAX MAP IT SAID IT'S ZONE C ONE.
I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE THE COUNTY, IF YOU USED THE COUNTY GISI USED FRONT ROYAL GS THERE.
WELL, THAT, THAT IS COUNTY GO AHEAD.
WE'RE IN THIS PROCESS OF DOING THAT CORRECTED.
I HAD REQUESTED THAT BACK WHEN IT WAS APPROVED AND IT DIDN'T GET DONE.
SO WE'RE GETTING THAT CORRECTED AS WELL AS TO SHOW THE HOUSE WITH THE ADDRESS ON THAT PROPERTY.
I JUST, I JUST THOUGHT I WAS DOING EVERYTHING WRONG.
YOU WERE ON THE MONEY C3 C3, THEY HAVE IT, THE C3, BUT THAT REZONING CAME, I BELIEVE IT WAS A MONTH OF AUGUST, BUT I DON'T I 23.
IT WAS, YEAH, IT WAS SOME TIME AGO, BUT THEY WERE ALSO TALKING ABOUT CARETAKER QUARTERS.
BUT THAT, THAT IS NOT EVEN WHAT HAPPENED.
IT ENDED UP BEING A MULTIFAMILY DWELLING WITH A UNIT A ON THE BOTTOM AND B ON THE TOP.
I DON'T EVEN SEE A UNIT ON ANYWAY.
SO WE DON'T NEED TO FIGURED THE FIRST TIME I ACTUALLY REALLY DO SOME DIG DIGGING AND TRYING TO FIGURE THINGS OUT.
I I NEVER HAVE
WE'RE IN THE, WE ARE IN THE HOME STRETCH OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
WE HAVE, UM, ARTICLES NINE AND 10 LEFT.
AND WHAT I WANTED TO, BEFORE WE GET INTO ARTICLE NINE, I WANTED TO REQUEST, WE HAVE WHAT WE'VE DONE SO FAR IN THE ZONING TEXT, IT NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED AND WHAT I WAS GONNA REQUEST IT, WE COULD SPLIT IT UP TO 35 PAGES EACH AND THAT'LL TAKE US, UM, GET US THROUGH WHAT'S DONE RIGHT PRIOR TO TODAY AND THE LAST COUPLE OF SECONDS TO DO THIS HANDLED.
IF, IF I COULD GET VOLUNTEERS IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS TO REVIEW ONE THROUGH 35.
THESE ARE PAGES WITHIN THE DOCUMENT.
NOW THIS IS THE DOCUMENT I HAVE POSTED ONLINE.
THE MAY OR JUNE ONE BEFORE JUNE.
SO BEFORE WE GO FURTHER MM-HMM
THAT ITEM WILL BE ON THE PUBLIC, SORRY, THE REGULAR MEETING FOR JUNE 17TH, THAT THE APPLICANT WILL BE THE ONE PULL THAT POINT.
SO SO SHOULD THE ADS STAY THE PAPER, IT'S ALREADY OKAY.
SO HE'LL JUST PULL IT THAT WAY.
AND I'LL TAKE THE 1 0 6 OR ONE 40.
AND CONNIE, COULD YOU DO THE ONE 70 OR 1 41 TO 1 73? I CAN, UH, I'LL SEND, I'LL SEND THAT OUT TONIGHT.
EVERYBODY AGAIN, WHERE A LINK IS TO FIND THAT AND WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IS, YOU KNOW, REFERENCES THAT GO NOWHERE OR, OR REFERENCE TO THE WRONG PLACE.
UM, ANY BLATANT ERRORS, UH, THAT, THAT ARE IN THERE.
JUST 'CAUSE WE WENT THROUGH IT NOW, SO WE'RE NOT TRYING TO RE RE-LITIGATE THE WHOLE THING.
BUT, BUT JUST TRY TO FIND THOSE ERRORS JUST TO CLEANUP.
NOW THE ULTIMATE CLEANUP IS GONNA BE UP TO THE TOWN FOLKS TO DO THAT, TO MAKE THE DOCUMENTATION, BUT WE'RE JUST TRYING TO FIX,
[00:25:01]
FIX ANYTHING BLATANT ERROR.DO WE JUST FIX IT OR DO WE PUT IT NOTE? UH, IT'D PROBABLY BE BEST JUST TO PUT A NOTE THERE.
AT THIS POINT WE DO IT AND TRACK CHANGES.
IF WE DO AND TRACK CHANGES WITHIN, IF WE DO IT ONLINE WITHIN THE DOCUMENT ITSELF, IT'LL TRACK THOSE CHANGES AND THEN WE CAN, WE'LL JUST WORK ON THE ON ON THE ONLINE VERSION OF IT.
ONLINE VERSION, BECAUSE IF WE COULD AND MULTIPLE PEOPLE CAN HAVE AN OPEN AT THE SAME TIME AND IT STILL WORKS IF YOU WANT TO.
SO JUST DO, DO THAT AND IF YOU COULD DO, GET THAT DONE THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS, THAT WAY WE CAN, UM, MOVE FORWARD ON THAT.
SO WHY DON'T WE GET TO, WELL, I KNOW YOU ALL HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR, OKAY.
JUST SO YOU KNOW, AT THE REGULAR MEETING THIS MONTH, WE'RE GONNA GO BACK TO ARTICLE EIGHT BECAUSE WE DIDN'T DO ARTICLE EIGHT.
THAT'S, THESE ARE THE DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS.
OR, UH, I GUESS SUPPLEMENTARY PROVISIONS.
THIS IS, UM, A MARKUP VERSION THAT I HAD IN HERE JUST TO GO THROUGH FOR A STARTING POINT, BUT WE CAN JUST SCROLL THROUGH THIS AND SEE WHERE YOU GUYS HAD YOUR COMMENTS ADD INTO.
UM, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING ON VISIBILITY INTERSECTIONS? ANY CHANGES YOU WANNA SEE THERE? UH, ANYTHING WITH LANDSCAPING? YEAH.
FENCES, UM, IF YOU CONTINUE ON DOWN, SEE THERE, I CHANGED THE PICTURE.
IF YOU SEE THE PICTURE, IT'S ON BOTTOM LEFT THERE.
THAT'S THE OLD ONE BECAUSE THE FENCES MENTIONED ALL THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF FENCE SURFACES, BUT IT ONLY SHOWS THE PICTURE OF ONE.
SO I PLACING IT WITH THIS DRAWING.
SEE, UM, DO WE NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING IN THERE WHERE IT'S CLEAR THAT FORWARD THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING UNDER CI GUESS THIS IS MAYBE GEORGE, YOU CAN WEIGH IN ON THIS INTERPRETATION.
UNDER C VINCENT'S IN THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT SHALL NOT EXCEED THE HEIGHT OF FOUR FEET IN REQUIRED FRONT YARD.
IS THAT IN THE PAST? IN THE REQUIRED FRONT? IS THAT JUST THE FRONT? IN THE, IN THE PAST THEY DETERMINED THAT WAS FORWARD OF THE HOME.
UH, BUT OUR INTERPRETATION CURRENTLY IS FROM THE FRONT YARD SETBACK.
SO IS THERE AMBIGUITY? I THINK THERE, I BELIEVE THERE IS.
SO WHAT SOMETIMES YOU HAVE HOUSES, WILL THAT BE CLEANED UP IN THE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING.
I THINK WE SHOULD WELL CLEANED UP ELSEWHERE.
IS IT BEING, IT DOESN'T ADDRESSED ELSEWHERE.
THIS IS THE SECTION THAT IT, THAT'S UNCLEAR.
SO YOU, SO BASICALLY IF YOU THINK IF YOU HAVE SOME HOMES THAT SET ARE NON-CONFORMING HOMES, THEY SET TOO CLOSE TO THE STREET BASED ON THE SETBACK.
SO WHERE SHOULD THE FENCE, THE FOUR FOOT FENCE HEIGHT STOP AT, AT THE SETBACK LINE OR FROM THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE FORWARD REQUIRING A FOREFOOT? I WOULD THINK IT'D BE THE FRONT PLANE OF THE HOUSE.
BECAUSE THEN YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE THAT ARE LIKE, WELL THIS IS THE SIDE, THIS IS BY SIDE SETBACK.
SO IT'S LIKE IF THE BUILDING ENVELOPE IS, YOU KNOW, 10 FEET FROM EACH SIDE PROPERTY LINE.
BUT DID, I GUESS THEN, THEN YOU COULD HAVE THE HOUSE.
IF THE SETBACK WE'LL SAY IS 35 FEET RIGHT, THE HOUSE COULD SET BACK 45 FEET.
OKAY, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
HOW'S THIS THEN? EITHER THE FRONT PLANE OF THE HOUSE OR THE SETBACK, WHICHEVER IS CLOSER TO THE STREET.
THAT WAY SOMEBODY'S HOUSE IS NONCONFORMING AND IT'S TOO CLOSE TO THE STREET.
YOU STILL ALLOW THE AESTHETIC OF A SIX FOOT ALL THE WAY TO THE FRONT PLANE OF THE HOUSE.
BUT IF THEY'RE SET FURTHER BACK, THEN THEY HAVE THE OP, THEN THEY, UH, IT CAN, IT WOULD STILL BE THEN PER THAT SETBACK.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WOULD BE BEST OR, OR, OR GIVE THE, GIVE THE DISCRETION
[00:30:01]
ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS ON THOSE THAT VIOLATE OR TO GIVE YOU THE DISCRETION TO DO, TO DECIDE WHERE IT WOULD BE.WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE INTENT TO, WHAT'S THE REASON THAT WE WANT TO HAVE, OR SOMEBODY WANTED TO HAVE FOUR FEET IN FRONT AS OPPOSED TO SITTING THEIR HOUSE.
IS IT TO SEE THE HOUSE NUMBER? IS IT SO THAT FENCE, THE SIX FOOT FENCE, IS IT RIGHT AGAINST THE STREET? YOU KNOW? 'CAUSE IF YOU'RE DRIVING DOWN THE STREET AND EVERY HOUSE HAS A SIX FEET FENCE, IT'S KIND OF AESTHETICALLY NOT VERY, I THINK THERE'S AESTHETICS.
I THINK THERE'S SAFETY AND DISABILITY ON CORNERS.
UM, WE HAVE INSTANCE WHERE SOMEBODY HAD A PROTECTIVE ORDER AGAINST THEIR NEIGHBOR AND THEY WERE REQUESTING SIX FOOT TALL FENCE IN THEIR FRONT YARD.
UM, AND PD RECOMMENDED THAT THEY REQUEST THIS FROM US.
TO ME, IT SEEMS LIKE HE WOULDN'T WANT A SIX FOOT PRIVACY FENCE HIDE BEHIND IT IN CREDIT YARD.
NO, BUT THAT WAS THEIR REQUEST.
SO WHAT, WHAT DO YOU, YOU OBVIOUSLY HAD THE CONCERN.
WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND? UH, I DON'T THINK I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION.
SO ARE WE TALK UH, IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME.
IT JUST SAYS FRONT YARD, FOUR FEET IN THE REQUIRED FRONT YARD.
CAN YOU BUILD A FENCE OUTSIDE OF THE SETBACK OR WITHIN THE SETBACK? ARE, ARE FENCES EXEMPT FROM FENCES? GO UP TO THE RIGHT.
SO FENCES, THEY'RE NOT EXEMPT FROM SETBACK.
THEY CAN BE BUILT PROPERTY ON THE PROPERTY LINE.
WELL, WHEN YOU COME FORWARD, WHEN THEY BUILD THE FENCE UP TO THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, WE DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE HEIGHT OF SIX FEET AND FOUR FEET.
WHERE IS THAT DEMARCATION BE? SHOULD START AT, AT THE SETBACK LINE BECAUSE THE FRONT IS AT THE SIDE SETBACK LINE.
THE FRONT SETBACK LINE SIDE SET BACK LINES WOULD DETERMINE WHERE THE HEIGHT CHANGES.
I THINK IF WE MAKE IT SIMPLE AND SAY ANYTHING FORWARD, THAT BECOMES THE SIDE YARD.
THAT'S THE SIMPLEST TOO, BECAUSE THAT WORKS FORWARD.
THE PLANE OF THE HOUSE, WHATEVER THAT IS, WHETHER IT'S CONFORMING OR NONCONFORMING, THAT'S YOUR LIMIT FOR FOUR FEE.
AND WE CAN HAVE IN THERE IF WE SO DESIRE A LINE THAT'S SAYING THAT EXCEPTIONS MAY BE GRANTED ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS BY THE PLAINTIFF DIRECTOR.
IF THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO COME FORWARD WITH OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS FROM PD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I MEAN IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE GONNA DO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THERE, I DON'T THINK WE THINK EXCEPTION.
NOW SHOULD BE, SHOULD BE ABLE TO DESCRIBE IT WITHOUT GETTING INTO DISCRETION.
SO WHAT WORDING WAS THAT? I'M SORRY.
THE FORWARD OF THE PLANE OF THE HOUSE FOR THE FRONT PLAN OF THE HOUSE, WE TYPE THAT IN FOR A SECOND, SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
THEN WE'RE GONNA GET THE PERSON.
WELL THAT, SO ON THIS SCENARIO, THIS IS THE HOUSE.
THOSE ARE THE SETBACKS THAT THE BUILDING END.
THE FRONT IS THE FRONT'S HERE.
RIGHT? THE FENCE COULD BE HERE.
SO WHEN THEY COME UP THE SIDE PROPERTY LINE, WHERE DOES THE SIX FOOT FENCE STOP AT? HERE.
OR DOES IT STOP DOWN HERE OR DOES IT STOP HERE AT THE FRONT SET BACK? IS THAT ON THE STREET? YEAH, BECAUSE ON THE STREET YOU HAVE, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE YOUR EASEMENT THAT YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO PUT YOUR FENCE IN.
OH, WELL THAT'S LINE WOULD GO ACROSS THE FRONT, BUT IT'S NOT ABOUT THE CROSS, IT'S ABOUT THE SIDES.
IN THIS CASE, I THINK IT STOPS AT THE CORNER.
WELL, THE SETBACKS DON'T, AREN'T RELEVANT PROPERTY BECAUSE YOU CAN BUILD, THIS IS STILL YOUR SIDE, BUT THIS WOULD BE A SIX FOOT FENCE UP THIS SIDE.
IT'S A CERTAIN POINT AND IT CAN ONLY BE FOUR FOOT IN THE FRONT YARD.
IT SAYS EXCEED HEIGHT OF FOUR FEET IN THE REQUIRED FRONT YARD AND THE FRONT YARD'S NOT DEFINED.
SO I I WE'VE INTERPRETED FRONT YARD, MEANING ANYTHING FORWARD OF THE FRONT SETBACK.
THE FRONT SETBACK, BUT THEN IT SAYS OR SIX FEET IN THE SIDE OR REAR YARD.
SO WHERE'S YOUR SIDE? RIGHT? WE WAS, SO IT'S FOUR FEET FORWARD OF THE HOUSE.
IN EFFECT, WHAT'S THAT? FOUR FEET FORWARD OF THE HOUSE? THAT'S HOW IT'S INTERPRETED.
JUST, JUST JUST PLACE THAT FOUR FEET FORWARD TO THE HOUSE.
THAT WAY THE AMBIGUITY'S GONE.
SO NOW YOU'RE WANTING, SO YOU GO SIX FEET
[00:35:01]
RIGHT UP TO THE EDGE OF THE HOUSE, THEN STOP.IF YOU WANTED TO CONTINUE OUT ALONG YOUR PROPERTY, HAVE ALREADY DETECTED DROP TO FOUR RIGHT FORWARD OF THE HOUSE, THE PLAN OF THE FORWARD OF THE PLATE AT THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S MY ANSWER.
THAT'S, THAT'S MY, THAT'S HOW WE'VE BEEN INTERPRETED IN THE, THIS
BUT THE SIDE YARD BEGINS THERE.
THEY DID IT FORWARD OF THE HOUSE.
BUT MY, OUR INTERPRETATION IS HERE WHERE THIS SIDE SETBACK AS YOU POINTED OUT.
AND THERE COULD BE AN ADDITION, RIGHT.
ALL THE WAY TO THE, BUT THEN, THEN WE HAVE SOME HOMES THAT ARE LIKE THIS.
NONCONFORMING, RIGHT? MM-HMM
SO NOW WE'VE BEEN SAYING STOP THE SIX FOOT FENCE HERE AND CONTINUE WITH THE FOUR FOOT, FOUR FOOT UP AROUND THE FRONT TO THE SETBACK LINE.
BUT YOU KNOW, THE LACK OF CLARIFYING DEFINITIONS CLARIFIES THAT MARK, PARDON? ROLL AROUND THE FRONT OF YOUR YARD ALL THE WAY TO THE PROPERTY THAT, WHERE THAT'S WHERE THE SIDE SETBACK WOULD START.
I JUST, YOU WOULD DISREGARD THE NON-CONFORMING.
YOU WOULDN'T THINK THAT IT WOULD BE THAT BIG OF A DEAL, BUT LIKE, YOU GET THESE FACTS.
HOW DO WE NEED TO WORD THIS? I GUESS THE QUESTION, DO WE NEED TO WORD THIS ANY DIFFERENT THAN IT IS WRITTEN RIGHT THERE.
IT'S JUST FORWARD TO THE FRONT PLATE OF THE HOME.
BECAUSE THIS THEN PROTECTS PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO BE IN A NON-CONFORMING HOME.
LIKE SOME OF THE OLD HISTORIC HOMES FROM HAVING TO HAVE AN AWKWARD DROP OF TWO FEET IN THE MIDDLE OF THEIR HOUSE.
UH, SO YOU, YOU CAN'T SEE THROUGH THE LIVING ROOM WINDOW, BUT HELLO? IN THE KITCHEN.
DO PEOPLE NEED PERMISSION TO PUT UP ANY FENCE? YES.
HOW ABOUT TO REPLACE AN EXISTING FENCE? DEPENDS ON HOW HONEST EVERYTH IT'S, IF THEY'RE CHANGING THEIR, YEAH, I MEAN ONE BOARD.
NO, JUST REPLACE A BOARD OR TWO.
WHEN YOU SAY I'M JUST REPLACING A BOARD OR TWO.
AND WHAT ABOUT, UM, COWBOY FENCE? SO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF WOOD AND THEN JUST CALL US AND SUBMIT.
IF THAT'S PERMIT, I JUST NOTICED ON MY, SO, UM, DO WE HAVE IT DENOTED HERE? THAT, THAT'S REQUIRED REPLACEMENT.
WELL, NO, THAT'S JUST ALTERED OR CREATED TO IN INCLUDE ISSUES.
BUT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A LINE IN HERE SAYING THAT THERE'S A PERMIT REQUIRED.
IT'S JUST, HERE'S THE CONDITIONS THAT YOU'VE TO FULFILL.
UM, UM, WOULD IT NOT? I MEAN THAT'S, WE HAVE REQUIRED PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR LANDSCAPING.
WELL, JUST THE DEFINITION I BELIEVE.
THIS IS JUST DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS.
THIS ISN'T, YOU KNOW, HEY, YOU NEED A PERMIT.
THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT PROMPTED THE DIFFERENT, PUTTING NEW DRAWING IN THERE.
GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION, I BELIEVE IS THAT THIRD ONE THERE.
SO WE, THAT WOULD FALL UNDER A STRUCTURE.
ANYTHING CONSTRUCTED OR ERECTED THE USE, WHICH REQUIRES A PERMANENT LOCATION ON THE GROUND OR ATTACHED TO SOMETHING HAVING A PERMANENT LOCATION ON THE GROUND.
FOR THE SAKE OF CLARITY, SHOULD WE INCLUDE A LINE HERE THAT SAYS THAT FENCES COUNT AS STRUCTURES FOR THE PURPOSES OF, OF PERMIT REQUIREMENTS? I THINK THAT DEFINITION IS PRETTY CLEAR TO ME.
WELL, THAT IF PEOPLE KNOW TO LOOK AT THE DEFINITION WHEN I READ THROUGH THIS, I JUST THOUGHT IT MEANT, HEY, IF YOU'RE GONNA BUILD A FENCE, DO IT THIS WAY.
AND IF YOU DON'T, YOU'LL GET IN TROUBLE.
I AM ASSUMING IT WOULDN'T HURT.
I'M STILL THINKING OF THE PRIOR,
[00:40:01]
UH, I'M STILL ON C THINKING ABOUT I, THE OBJECTIVE SHOULD BE UNIFORMITY.AND THIS PROPOSED CHANGE, IT'S ALL ABOUT WHERE THE HOUSE IS ACTUALLY CITED VERSUS THE SETBACK.
SO YOU COULD HAVE ONE HOUSE CITED IN THE, AT, IN THE DEEPEST PART OF THE SETBACK OR THE ENVELOPE, I SHOULD SAY THE BUILDING ENVELOPE.
AND THE NEXT ONE IS IN THE FORWARD MOST PART OF THE BUILDING ENVELOPE.
AND NOW YOU'VE GOT THE TALL AND SHORT FENCE.
ONE LOT, IT COULD BE STAGGERED AND THE DEEPEST PART AND THE NEXT ONE'S UP FRONT.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE, YOU DON'T HAVE, IF IT DIDN'T HAVE A FENCE, THEN THE FRONT FACADES WOULD HAVE VARIETY ANYWAY.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S NECESSARILY ABOUT UNIFORMITY AS OPPOSED TO NOT BEING OBTRUSIVE.
I MEAN, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT THE SETBACK WOULD HAVE A UNIFORM IF THAT'S THE OBJECTIVE.
BUT THEN YOU'D HAVE THE LACK OF UNIFORMITY OF HOUSES STICKING OUT OR BEING BEHIND WHERE THAT FENCE LINE IS.
IT'S, I I KNOW IT'S YOU MEAN DUE TO NONCONFORMITIES? DUE TO NONCONFORMITIES OR HOUSES BEING SET FURTHER FOR THE BACK.
IN GENERAL, IF YOU HAVE 'EM ALL AT THE SETBACK LINE, THEN THERE ARE ONLY HOUSES THAT ARE AT VARYING POINTS.
SOME THAT ARE WITHIN, THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF IT.
I I THINK NO MATTER WHICH DIRECTION WE GO, THERE'S GONNA BE A LACK OF UNIFORMITY IF THAT'S WHAT THE GOAL IS.
BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO MAKE, THEY CAN MAKE THE ENTIRE SIDE FENCED POOR FEET IF THEY WANTED TO, RIGHT? YEAH, YEAH.
IT'S JUST, AND IT SEEMS LIKE WHAT THE WHOLE SAFETY ISSUE THING KIND OF REALLY DOES KICK IN VISIBILITY.
IT'S REQUIREMENT TO THE FRONT FENCE.
SO YOU ALWAYS GONNA HAVE VARIETY IN THE MUD AND F*****G THAT.
THAT'S, THAT'S NOT A BAD THING.
SO IT KIND OF, YOU, YOU GUYS ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE TO ENFORCE THIS AND YOU RUN INTO ALL THE PROBLEMS. WHAT WORKS BEST FOR, 'CAUSE WE HAVE TWO, TWO DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS HERE, REALLY.
EITHER ONE IS IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS WE'VE BEEN ENFORCING THIS, WHICH THE GEORGES INTERPRETED IT WHERE THE SIDE SETBACK BEGINS.
WE'VE BEEN USING THE SETBACK AS THE DEMARC AGENT, WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE, IF THEY'RE DOING TWO TYPES OF BANDS WHERE A SIX FOOT WOULD END AND A FOUR FOOT WOULD BEGIN, I THINK IT'S SIMPLE AS TO JUST HAVE A FORWARD PLANE IN THE HOLE FRONT WALL.
YOU THINK IT'S BETTER WHAT YOU'RE DO.
AND A LOT OF THE HISTORIC HOUSES IN TOWN DON'T NECESSARILY FIT OUR SETBACKS.
WELL, ANOTHER THING, THE FENCES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT HAVE TO MEET THE GUIDELINES OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
SO THE SOME TYPES OF FENCES WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IF YOU'RE NOT IN HARMONY WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
WELL, LOOK, I, I HAVE A SUGGESTION THEN LET'S, UM, GO AHEAD AND LEAVE THIS FOR THE CHANGE FOR NOW.
AND YOU GUYS, I'M GONNA LEAVE IT UP TO YOU GUYS TO DECIDE WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOUR ENFORCEMENT SAKE AND THEN WE WILL BRING IT BACK TO NEXT MEETING IF IT, IF IT'S ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN THIS.
BECAUSE WE KIND OF REACHED AN IMPASSE A BIT HERE.
OH, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT YOUR OBJECT.
I THINK THE, THE KEY HERE IS WHAT, WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE OF THE ORDINANCE? IS IT TO PREVENT OBSTRUCTION OF VIEWS IN THE FRONT OF A ROW OF HOUSES? I, IT, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE, IT'S, IT'S BOTH AESTHETIC AND, AND PROTECTIVE AT THE SAME TIME, DEPENDING ON WHAT, WHERE THE HOUSE IS AND RETURN TO ONE STANDARD, IT GOES FOR ALL.
UM, I MEAN LIKE THERE WAS ONE INSTANCE WHERE A PERSON SAID, MY DOG JUMPED A FOUR FOOT FENCE.
I DON'T WANT THEM JUMPING OUT INTO THE ROAD.
THEY WANTED A SIX FOOT TALL FENCE IN THEIR FRONT YARD.
KEEP THEIR DOG FROM RUNNING OUT ON THE JOHN MARSHALL HIGHWAY.
SO I MEAN, AND THEN WE'RE LIKE, NO, SORRY THEY LEFT WITH YOUR DOG BECAUSE THAT'S NOT PERMITTED.
AND PART OF IT, PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO DRIVE DOWN A NEIGHBORHOOD AND LOOK LIKE IT'S A FORTRESS.
RIGHT? AS YOU GOT ALL THESE, THESE EIGHT FOOT FENCES RUNNING ALL UP, UP AND DOWN THE THING.
[00:45:01]
OBJECTIVE OF THE FOUR FOOT FENCE IN, IN YOUR HOUSE.IT'S A STATIC FOR THE MOST PART, ALTHOUGH IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCE IT CAN BLOCK VIEWS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
BUT OVERALL IT'S AESTHETIC RETRAIN.
AND I THINK THAT THAT, THAT SIX FOOT HEIGHT REQUIREMENT, IT'S GONNA DEPEND ON YOUR TYPE OF FENCE TOO.
IF YOU'VE GOT ONE OF THOSE ALUMINUM FENCES WHERE YOU CAN PRETTY VISIBLE, YOU CAN BE THROUGH A
I WOULD BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE HEIGHT, IF IT'S A PRIVACY BOARD ON BOARD FENCE, OR WHETHER THERE'S VINYL FENCES THAN IF IT'S A PICKET FENCE OR THOSE ALUMINUM.
SO IF YOU HAVE A, IF YOU CURRENTLY HAVE AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE AND IT FALLS APART, CAN YOU REPLACE IT WITH ANOTHER EIGHT FOOT FENCE OR YOU, NOT IN THE RESIDENTIAL ZONE, BUT IN THE, BUT IF YOU, YOU, YOU'RE NOT GRAND FROM IT IN WITH YOUR CURRENT EIGHT FOOT FENCE.
YOU COME IN A COMPLIANCE, AN EIGHT FOOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED IN RESIDENTIAL ART ZONE, BUT THEY'RE ALLOWED OR THERE'S ONE THERE, RIGHT? YES.
DON'T ALLOWED DOESN'T MEAN IS NOT THERE.
OKAY, SO THEN THE NEXT QUESTION WAS, DOES A FENCE CONSTITUTE A STRUCTURE? IS THAT, NO, IT WAS JUST WHEN I, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S CLEAR.
WELL, IT IS CLEAR, HOWEVER, WHEN I FIRST READ THE FENCES SECTION, I DIDN'T THINK TO GO AND CHECK THE DEFINITION OF STRUCTURE.
AND SO I COULD IMAGINE THEN A, YOU KNOW, YOUR AVERAGE PERSON HERE ALSO NOT THINKING ABOUT IT, NOT THINKING IT NEEDS A PERMIT.
AND MOVING FORWARD, SO YOU, YOU WERE PROPOSING PUTTING A LINE IN HERE, OFFENSES ARE PERMITTED, USE FENCES, UH, COUNT AS A STRUCTURE FOR THE PURPOSES OF ACQUIRING PERMITS.
I MEAN, WE COULD PUT IT THERE.
JUST LIKE UNDER URBAN AG PER SENTENCE, A ZONING PERMIT SHALL BE REQUIRED.
YEAH, NO, LET'S, LET'S JUST DO IT.
IT IT NO MATTER, YOU KNOW, OR WHEREVER YOU WANT TO PUT IT.
OH, THIS IS NOT, OKAY, I WILL PUT THAT UP.
UM, A ZONING PERMIT, SHOULD WE JUST SAY A ZONING PERMIT SHALL BE REQUIRED FOR ALL? I GUESS YOU COULD, I WOULD HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, UH, UM, AS WELL AS SUBSTANTIAL.
WOULD YOU SAY REPLACEMENT, I GUESS.
WELL REPLACEMENT THAT'S ALMOST LIKE, OH, IF I REPLACE A BOARD, THAT'S HOW, BUT THEN USE WORD SUBSTANTIAL BECAUSE THAT'S, IT IS ENTIRE REPLACEMENT.
COMPLETE REPLACEMENT FOR PURPOSE.
DEFENSES SHALL BE CONSIDERED STRUCTURES FOR PURPOSES OF ZONING PERMIT
OH, DON'T, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.
ALL, WELL, ELLEN, IT SAYS THERE, WE'RE NOT ALLOWING CANVAS, BUT YOU HAVE A PICTURE OF A CLOTH FENCE IN YOUR NEW PICTURES WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT'S NOT ALLOWED.
BUT THE FENCE IS THE PICTURES HE JUST SHOWED ALL THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF FENCES THAT WERE, OKAY.
SO THOSE WERE PIC I COULDN'T READ DEFINE THE PRINT.
SO THOSE WERE NOT PICTURES OF WHAT'S ALLOWED, IT'S JUST ALL THE TYPES, ALL TYPES OF OKAY.
EXAMPLES OF, SINCE IT WAS MENTIONED, I THOUGHT IT SHOULD BE IN THE PICTURE.
NO, I LIKE, I LIKE HAVING THE PICTURE, BUT I JUST THOUGHT THAT WAS PICTURES OF PERMITTED THAT WERE TAKEN OUT.
THE NUMBERING'S GONNA BE MEANINGLESS IN THE NEW RIGHT.
SINCE I CHANGED IT TO WHAT? UH, A NEW NEW NUMBER.
ANYTHING ELSE WITH FENCES THAT WE WANNA, UH, IF WE COULD CHANGE WHAT YOU JUST TYPED IN.
JUST FOR PURPOSES OF ZONING APPROVAL.
I THOUGHT WE WERE REDOING THE
WHAT? OH, BO, SORRY ABOUT THAT.
[00:50:01]
SO, UM, PROFESSIONAL OFFICES, ANYTHING? UM, I DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING THERE.
DID ANYBODY ELSE? ANYTHING PERSONAL OFFICES? NO.
THERE'S, YEAH, SOME STUFF IN B, BUT IS THERE ANYTHING FROM THE INITIAL SECTION OR A THAT PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO SEE CHANGED? ISSUES? WHO DECIDES WHAT CEREMONIOUS? UH, CAN WE GET RID OF THAT GUARANTEED UNIFIED MANAGEMENT CONTROL? THAT WAS A NIGHT, WAS IT NOT? IT'S NOT DEFINED ANYWHERE.
REMEMBER WHERE IS THAT SHOPPING CENTER SHALL BE IN SINGLE OWNERSHIP OR UNDER A GUARANTEED UNIFIED MANAGEMENT CONTROL.
AH, REMEMBER THAT WASN'T DEFINED WHEN WE TRIED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THAT WAS.
SUBSTITUTE SHALL BE UNDER SINGLE OWNERSHIP PERIOD.
SO THEY COULDN'T BE MANAGEMENT GROUP.
THE PROBLEM IS, IS THIS LIKE PHRASE OR DEFINITION WHEN WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DOES THIS MEAN, WE COULDN'T FIND IT ANYWHERE IN LAND USE.
SO, UM, SO WHEN IT CAME TIME TO SUBDIVIDE THE RURAL KING SHOPPING CENTER, IT WAS I THINK A LOT MORE DIFFICULT THAN IT NEEDED TO BE.
JUST 'CAUSE OF THIS LITTLE PHRASE HERE.
FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, YEAH.
IT'S EITHER UNDER SINGLE OWNERSHIP OR SO I AGREE THAT THE CURRENT PHRASE IS ABOUT PROBLEMATIC.
ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS BEFORE WE GO TO THE CHANGE? WOULD IT BE PROBLEMATIC IF SOMEBODY DEFINES HARMONIOUS? HARMONIOUS JUST MEANS THAT THE, THE USES WORK WELL TOGETHER.
SO RETAIL, SHOPPING, RESTAURANTS, PLACES STOP AND GET GAS, GET YOUR COFFEE.
THAT THAT'S, WELL THE PERMITTED PRINCIPLE USES INCLUDES ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
UM, I GUESS WE DON'T LIKE OXFORD COMMAS.
YEAH, B THE WORDING WAS FUNNY TO ME, SO I WAS JUST PROPOSING A DIFFERENT WORDING.
THIS WAS A CASE I DIDN'T, IT ONLY SPECIFIES THE 25% MAXIMUM BLOCK COVERAGE AND WHEN, AND THAT'S, UM, THAT'S SPRAWL FOR THE MOST PART.
NOW IF YOU'RE IN A LITTLE, A LITTLE TOWN FOR A SMALL SUBDIVISION OR A SMALL, UM, AREA OF STORES, IT MAKES SENSE.
BUT AS YOU GOT TO BIGGER SHOPPING CENTERS, THAT WOULD BE A LOT OF PROPERTY THAT WAS JUST OUT, THAT'S A LOT OF JUST OPEN WASTE SPACE, OPEN WASTE TO SPACE.
SO I WAS PROPOSING, I WENT AND LOOKED AT OTHER JURISDICTIONS TO SEE WHAT THEY HAD AND, AND THIS TABLE WAS, WAS BASED ON, ON THAT, WHAT IS A POWER CENTER? GIVE THEM A THIRD ONE REGIONAL SLASH POWER CENTER.
THIS WAS PART OF THE UM, UH, I DON'T THINK THAT'D BE LIKE YOUR OUTLET, MALL OUT OUTLET MALLS AND THAT SORT OF THING.
LIKE WHEN YOU DRIVE TO, LIKE WHEN YOU GO TO
SO LIKE OVER IN BEYOND A MALL, SO.
IN THAT CASE, I DON'T KNOW IF I'VE EVER SEEN THAT.
THE BIGGEST I THINK I'VE BEEN TO IS LIKE BAR OAKS OR TYSONS.
EVER GO OVER TO THE EASTERN SHORE AND GO OVER TO DELAWARE AND GO THE OUTLETS.
IT'S A LARGE OPEN AIR SHOPPING BUILT AROUND SEVERAL MAJOR BIG BOX RETAILERS RATHER THAN TRADITIONAL ENCLOSED MALL.
THAT'S A REGIONAL CENTER THAT'S WITH THE POWER CENTER OUTLET.
THE POWER CENTER'S CALLED A POWER CENTER.
LEESBURG HAS IN THE LEESBURG PREMIUM OUTLETS BEEN SO IN WHERE? IT'S, WHERE, WHERE THAT MOVIE THEATER IS IN AUSTIN.
[00:55:01]
KINDA LIKE THAT.DO WE WANT TO INCLUDE THAT IN HERE OR DO WE WANT TO JUST NOT HAVE THAT MIGHT BE THE URBAN USE DEFINITION.
THERE ARE, I CANNOT THINK OF A SINGLE SITE OTHER THAN SOMETHING LIKE AV TAX THAT WOULD FIT SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I MEAN THESE ARE, IT WAS JUST FOR COMPLETENESS OF THE DIFFERENT SCALES.
IT COULD BE REMOVED, BUT IT COULD STRIKE IT.
I MEAN IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IT SHOULD BE IN THERE, BUT IF IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S RELEVANT TO THE TOWN, I WOULD IT BE OVER COMPLETION IN THAT WAY?
WOULD YOU JUST, JUST PUT A NOTE IN THERE, DOOR OPEN, REMOVE THAT LINE, REGIONAL POWER CENTER INSIDE AND THEN I WOULDN'T SAY ALLOWED LOT COVERAGE.
I WOULD JUST SAY LIKE PERMITTED OR I'M SORRY.
SAY WHAT? INSTEAD OF ALLOWED, I THINK IT SHOULD BE PERMITTED OR BECAUSE I DIDN'T, I DIDN'T EMBED THE MICROSOFT, I MEAN THE MICROSOFT OBJECT IN THERE.
UM, SO AT THE SAME TIME, I WANT US TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS CHANGE OVERALL BECAUSE AS IT STANDS CURRENTLY YOU HAVE 25%, RIGHT? AND THEN HAVING THE MAXIMUM MOVE UP TO 35% FOR THE SMALLEST SECTION.
AND THEN, UH, ALLOWED BLOCK COVERAGE BEING 60 PLUS MEANING AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE RIGHT OPEN SPACE, DO WHATEVER YOU DO, HAVE AS MUCH AS YOU WANT IN THERE.
IS THAT A CHANGE THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT AT ALL? 'CAUSE THAT'S REMOVING A LOT OF OTHERWISE OPEN SPACE.
UM, AND WHILE YES, IN A COMMERCIAL SETTING, YOU HAVING THE BUILDINGS AND THE BUSINESSES IS IMPORTANT, IS THAT A DETRIMENT TO WHAT'S NATURALLY PRESENT IN AN AREA? WHEN YOU SAY OPEN SPACE HERE, ARE YOU THINKING LIKE THE GREEN SPACES OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE PARKING LOT? ISLANDS THAT ARE, I, I COULD THINK OF, OF EITHER.
UM, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE PARKING'S CAN HAVE ITS OWN REQUIREMENTS IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, REQUIRED SPACES AND EVERYTHING THERE.
UM, BUT POTENTIALLY COULD JUST BE A HUGE GRAVEL LOT.
YOU KNOW, IT JUST, JUST HAS THE BUILDING COVERAGE.
THESE ARE, THESE ARE ALL SPECIAL USE.
IT'S JUST, I ALWAYS GET NERVOUS WHEN THERE'S A JUMP FROM, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT'S ONE FOURTH WHAT'S PROBLEMATIC UP TO OVER HALF.
BUT WHAT'S PROBLEMATIC WITH OUR CURRENT SHOPPING CENTERS IS THAT YOU HAVE SO MUCH REQUIRED PARKING.
SO YOU'RE JUST GETTING THESE JUST HEAT ISLANDS OF ASPHALT JUST HEATING UP AND JUST IMPERVIOUS SURFACE.
I MEAN, THEY'RE JUST NOT MM-HMM
IT'S NOT THE BEST USE OF THE LAND.
GIANT PARKING LOTS, IT'S STILL ALWAYS DIFFICULT TO FIND A PARKING SPOT AT MARTIN'S PARKING.
AGAIN, THESE, THESE ARE TYPICAL NUMBERS YOU FIND IN SURROUNDING TOWNS AND CITIES SURROUNDING RURAL OR SURROUNDING GOING FURTHER EAST, FURTHER EAST AND SOUTH.
AND I LOOKED LIKE, UM, LARAY WAS ONE OF THE ONES I LOOKED AT IN HERE IN THIS MIX.
IS THAT JUST THE BUILDING? THAT'S JUST THE BUILDING.
SO THE REST OF COULD ALL BE PARKING LOT AND PAVEMENT.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE CUTTING DOWN TREES TO ALLOW MORE, MORE, YOU KNOW, AREA.
AND THE PARKING LOT'S NOT GENERATING REVENUE.
I JUST WANTED TO BRING IT FORWARD AS DISCUSSION SINCE IT IS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE.
UM, ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING WITH THE SUPPLEMENTARY STUFF WITH PARKING? THAT'S ALWAYS BITCOIN,
I THINK WE JUST KIND OF, WE DEFAULT LIKE JUST
UM, I KNOW WHEN WE GET DOWN TO APARTMENTS AND IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO REQUIRE LARGER PARKING SPACES, AS LONG AS WE'RE NOT REQUIRING THE 20 BY 10 PARKING SPACES
[01:00:01]
FOR THIS FINE.UM, MY ONE SUGGESTION MIGHT BE IN HERE ON INTERIOR CIRCULATION ACCESS WAY SHALL BE DESIGNED TO PREVENT THE BLOCKING OF VEHICLES ENTERING OR LEAVING THE SITE AND SHALL ENCOURAGE THE SMOOTH MOVEMENT OF VEHICLES THROUGH THE SITE.
WE JUST NEED TO GET PETER OUT TO PAY ATTENTION TO THAT ONE.
UM, ANYTHING WITH LIGHTING, SHOPPING CART.
SCREENING? DO WE WANT CONSIDER SIX FEET INSTEAD OF FOUR? I KNOW WE DID THAT FOR THAT APARTMENT.
ANYTHING WITH STORAGE SIGNS IS JUST ARTICLE 10 ANYWAY.
AH, WE GOT SOME MOVEMENT HERE.
HERE'S WHERE COULD KIND OF RUN INTO A PROBLEM.
IT, IT ORIGINALLY, AND ACTUALLY YOU TALKED TO JOHN ON THIS A LITTLE BIT, UM, WHERE CHANGE OF CONCEPT PLANS, I'M ASKING FOR 10 COPIES OF DEVELOPMENT PLANS IN HERE AND YOU, YOU GUYS, UM, DON'T GET A DEVELOPMENT PLAN AT THIS STAGE.
SO BASED ON OUR DEFINITION, THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN AS A SITE DEVELOPMENT PLAN WITH ALL THE CIVIL ENGINEERING EROSION SET OF CONTROL, LANDSCAPING, STORM, STORMWATER PART PER DEFINITION.
SO WHEN I READ THIS THAT IT'S CONTRARY TO WHAT WE DEFINE A DEVELOPMENT PLAN AS MM-HMM
UH, TO ME THAT DEVELOPMENT PLAN WHEN YOU READ THROUGH THAT IS MORE OF A CONCEPT PLAN.
'CAUSE YOU, YOU'RE BASICALLY, THEY'RE ONLY SUBMITTING THE CONCEPT OF THE LAYOUT OF THE SHOPPING CENTER FOR APPROVAL OF THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
THAT LISTS THOSE ITEMS ONE THROUGH 16, UH, WELL PROBABLY ONE THROUGH 14, I GUESS WHAT'S REQUIRED FOR THE CONCEPT PLAN.
SO THE LANGUAGE KIND OF CONTRADICTS ITSELF UNDER THAT RIGHT DEFINITION.
UM, AND THAT CASE SHOULD DEVELOPMENT PLAN HERE BE CHANGED TO CONCEPT PLAN TO MATCH WHAT WE REALLY WROTE ABOUT.
AND THAT'S THE REASONING BEHIND THAT IS, I MEAN, THEY'RE JUST GIVING YOU A PRELIMINARY PLAN, SHOWING THE LAYOUT OF THE SHOPPING CENTER, THE PARKING, WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IN THE FUTURE.
AND VENABLE GOT APPROVED FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, FOR EXAMPLE.
THEN THEY WOULD SUBMIT THE ATHLETE SITE DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR ALL THE CIVIL ENGINEERING ASPECTS OF THE DEVELOPMENT.
UH, AND WE DON'T NEED 10 COPIES.
I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A HOLDOVER FROM EVERYTHING WAS THE PAPER ANYWAY.
HOLD OVER FROM THE, FROM THE PREVIOUS ONE.
WE DIDN'T HAVE THE ADDITIONAL WAGE THERE A LITTLE BIT.
AND THE NEXT PART HAD TO DO, I WAS GONNA ASK GEORGE ON THIS.
STARTED CHANGING, IT, STARTED TALKING ABOUT IT BEING DONE WITH ADMINISTRATOR AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND TOWN COUNCIL APPROVING THESE PLANS.
DOES THIS FALL UNDER THE DESIGNATED AGENT DEFINITION AS WELL? I STARTED THINKING IT WAS AND CHANGED ONE.
IT SHOWS UP IN HERE A FEW TIMES.
I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANYTHING THAT GOES TO TOWN COUNCIL.
SO WE IN THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, SO ANY PLACE WE HAVE WHERE PLANNING COMMISSION OR TOWN COUNCIL, WE NEED TO CHANGE THAT TO DESIGNATED AGENT, BECAUSE THAT'S GONNA SHOW UP IN HERE A FEW TIMES.
I ONLY CHANGED THE ONE THEN I STOPPED 'CAUSE I'M NOT, I WASN'T SURE IF THE OKAY, SO THE NEXT FOUR THAT WOULD BE, UH, 15 AND 16 WHERE REQUIRED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
IS THAT ONE THAT YOU'RE THINKING WE WOULD NEED TO BE CHANGING? UM, NO, THAT'S, NO, THAT ONE'S OKAY.
THAT THAT ONE'S OKAY BECAUSE NO, IT'S, UM, 16 IS SOMETHING WE CAN'T PHYSICAL.
YOU COULD ADD SOME TRAFFIC, TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS.
[01:05:01]
BECAUSE OF THE SHOPPING CENTER, BUT, BUT 16 IS WHAT SHE'S SAYING.
WOULD THIS BE A FISCAL IMPACT, IMPACT FOR THE SHOPPING CENTER LISTING, LISTING TOWN REVENUE GENERATED BY THE PROJECT AND TOWN EXPENDITURES? THAT BE, THAT'S WHY WE ASKED FOR THAT DURING A REZONING.
UM, I THINK YOU'D BE FINE WITH THE TRAFFIC POTENTIALLY AN ENVIRONMENTAL DEPEND WHAT IT NO, IT'S 16 MR. NO, I UNDERSTAND.
SO TRAFFIC IMPACT, YOU MAY WANT AN ENVIRONMENTAL DEPENDING ON THE HISTORY OF THE SITE.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED A FISCAL IMPACT ANALYSIS.
BUT, UM, WE'VE NEVER ASKED ANYBODY THAT QUESTION.
WOULD WE, BUT IF YOU HAD SOMETHING MIXED USE, LIKE IF YOU HAD A COMBINATION OF RESIDENTIAL UP TOP AND, UH, COMMERCIAL ON THE BOTTOM, THEN YOU MIGHT WANT THAT FISCAL IMPACT ANALYSIS.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT AS A PLANNING COMMISSION WE COULD RIGHTFULLY ASK FOR? OR IS THAT A COUNCIL THING IN ORDER TO MAKE RECOMMENDATION? THE ANSWER QUESTION TO ME WOULD BE, IN ORDER TO MAKE A GOOD RECOMMENDATION, WOULD WE WANT THAT INFORMATION? AND I WOULD THINK I'D WANT THE DATA, YES.
BUT IT SAYS WHERE REQUIRED BY THE P THAT GIVES YOU SOME DISCRETION AS TO WHEN YOU'D ASK FOR IT, BUT YOU'RE NOT SEEING IT UNTIL IT'S ALREADY BEEN SUBMITTED.
SO IT WOULD BE A, THAT WOULD DELAY THE PROCESS IF YOU WANTED IT.
SO YOU MIGHT WANNA PUT SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT IT'S JUST NOT ONE REQUIRED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT JUST REQUIRED AS REQUIRED.
IT WOULD JUST BE A TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS IS REQUIRED.
PHYSICAL IMPACT ANALYSIS IS REQUIRED.
BUT HOW CAN, HOW CAN SOMEBODY KNOW WHAT THE TOWN EXPENDITURES ARE? WELL, THAT'S, NO, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD SEE AS REAL.
YOU CAN DO PROJECTIONS WHEN WE HAVE REZONINGS AND SO THEY TAKE OUR BUDGET FOR THAT.
SO IF WE HAVE A MODEL THAT TELLS US WHAT DEVELOPMENT GENERATES AS FAR AS TAX RATES GO, RIGHT.
UM, SO BY THE VSA, THE COUNTY IS REQUIRED TO KEEP THAT MODEL, KEEP IT UP TO DATE.
IT DOESN'T JUST, IT'S NOT JUST NECESSARY FOR PROFFERS.
YOU COULD USE IT FOR THIS AND IT WOULD, IT WOULD GIVE US A NUMBER.
THE COEFFICIENTS WOULD CHANGE BASED ON THE USE SO THE COMMERCIAL COEFFICIENTS WOULD BE DIFFERENT THAN, UM, RESIDENTIAL, BUT IT'S JUST LOOKING, THIS WOULD BE SOMEWHAT AKIN TO, UH, MARSHALL SQUAD, RIGHT? WHERE THEY TOLD US, YOU KNOW, BASED ON, YOU KNOW, VEHICLE COSTS AND, YOU KNOW, THESE CERTAIN NUMBERS THAT THEY PULLED FROM ELSEWHERE.
THIS IS WHAT THE TOWN CAN EXPECT IN REV IN TAX REVENUE.
BASED ON, DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN, UM, NVR SUBMITTED THEIR REZONING AND THEY HAD ALL THOSE CHARTS AND, UM, I REMEMBER WE PULLED, HE CAME AND SAID, HEY, BASED ON YOUR BUDGET AND THE SCHOOL'S BUDGET, THE COUNTY'S BUDGET, THIS IS HOW MUCH THE EACH HOUSEHOLD COSTS.
THE TOWN AND COUNTY, YOU CAN DO THAT IN A DIFFERENT CAPACITY.
BUT WITH SHOPPING, HAVE WE DONE IT WITH EACH? NOT IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN HERE.
BUT IT'S NOT TO SAY YOU CAN'T, AND YOU, AND INSTEAD OF SAYING, YOU KNOW, THAT THIS HAS TO BE SUBMITTED, THIS, YOU COULD SAY MAY TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS SHOWING DA, DA DA MAY REQUIRED BE BETTER FISCAL IMPACT ANALYSIS.
I BE INCLINED TOWARDS ALWAYS WANTING THE TRAFFIC IMPACT.
OH, TRAFFIC AND THEN FISCAL SAYING MAY BE REQUIRED.
OR YOU COULD DO FISCAL IMPACT ANALYSIS REQUIRED IF MAKES USE DEVELOPMENT WITH RENT CENTRAL.
I I, I'D RATHER LEAVE IT A LITTLE MORE OPEN THAT WITH MAY ON THAT, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW ALL THE POSSIBLE POSSIBILITIES.
SHELBY REQUIRED TO CHANGE 15 SHALL NO, WE DON'T DO THAT ALL.
'CAUSE THE REST OF THESE ARE, SO THIS WHOLE LIST IS SAYING THE CONCEPT PLANS, THAT INFORMATION WOULD INCLUDE ALL OF THIS STUFF, AND THEN IT'S JUST SIX, IT'S ONLY 16 THAT WE'RE SAYING MAY BE REQUIRED.
[01:10:01]
SO, MR. CHAIR, SO I MAY MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR QUESTION ABOUT DESIGNATED AGENT UHHUH.I THOUGHT YOU WERE REFERRING TO THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
O ONLY THAT'S WHAT I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT.
OKAY, SO, SO WE, IT DOESN'T APPLY TO ZONING.
SCROLL BACK TO, DOESN'T APPLY TO ZONING.
SO YOU WOULD SAY ZONING ADMINISTRATION.
SO IT'S WHATEVER COUNCIL, THE CONCEPT PLAN IS REVIEWED BY ADMINISTRATIVE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR ONLY AS ANY ADMINISTRATOR DOES HAVE AT ALL.
JUST BE SUBMITTED TO THE WELL, IT'S PART OF THE SUP.
THIS IS ALL PART OF THE SHOPPING CENTER SHALL BE SUBMITTED.
AND SO WHATEVER IS BEING REQUIRED FOR THAT SUP GOES TO COUNSEL.
WHY ARE YOU SPECIFYING WHO IT'S GOING TO? AND JUST SAYING SHALL BE SUBMITTED PRIOR TO BLANK COPIES SHALL BE SUBMITTED.
SO WE HAVE PRIVATE ISSUANCE OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
A CONCEPT PLAN SHALL BE SUBMITTED.
IT'S A, IT'S A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
I MEAN, SPECIAL USE PERMITS, ALL OF THEM, REGARDLESS OF THE SHOPPING CENTER.
GET REVIEWED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND APPROVAL BY TOWN COUNCIL.
UM, THIS IS ONE WHERE MY, WE MIGHT CHANGE IT, BUT THE CONCEPT PLAN SHALL CONTAIN THE FOLLOWING DATA, SO ON AND SO FORTH, AS DEEMED AS NECESSARY BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR TOWN COUNCIL.
WE WANNA SAY ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AS WELL, OR NO? UH, MY OPINION IS AS NECESSARY BY THE SHALL CONTAIN BOND DATA TOGETHER WOULD SUPPLEMENT DATA FOR DEVELOPMENT.
I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD, I THINK THAT AS DEEMED NECESSARY, SHOULD PROBABLY BE STRICKEN FROM THAT.
WELL, I THINK THAT AS DEEMED NECESSARY, AS DEEMED SUFFICIENT IS REFERENTIAL TO THE SUPPLEMENTARY PORTION OF THIS.
NOT EVERYONE'S GONNA BE THE SAME SUPPLEMENTARY ANALYSIS.
SO LIKE SOME OF THE SITES WE LIKE, I CAN WAVE THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT ANALYSIS IF I KNOW THERE'S NO CHANCE OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONTAMINATION.
UM, THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THE DIRECTOR CAN WAIVE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS.
SO IF WHEN WE'RE TAKING IN THE APPLICATION AND WE'RE TALKING WITH THEM, WE MIGHT SAYING, OKAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU NEED THIS SUPPLEMENTAL DATA, BUT IT MAY NOT PERTAIN TO ALL SHOPPING CENTERS.
UM, HOW ABOUT AND SUPPLEMENTARY DATA FOR A PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT AS DEEMED NECESSARY? AND WE JUST REMOVE THIS COMMA SO THAT IT'S CLEAR THAT THE SUPPLEMENT DATA THAT DEEMED NECESSARY IS REFERENCING ONLY THE SUPPLEMENTARY, DO WE HAVE TO SAY FOUR PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT? I MEAN, THAT'S OBVIOUS IN THIS.
IT'S STUFF, MAIN DATA AS DEEMED NECESSARY.
I I PREFER THE WORD SUFFICIENT TO NECESSARY.
AND YOU COULD HAVE PLANNING DIRECTOR, RIGHT? YEAH.
'CAUSE YOU, YOU COULD HAVE SOME SMALL DEVELOPMENT THAT DOESN'T NEED A LOT OF THIS STUFF AND HAVE A LARGE ONE OR ANYTHING IN BETWEEN.
IT'S A LITTLE INLINE STRIP CENTER IS GONNA BE DIFFERENT THAN A MAJOR SHOPPING CENTER WITH ANCHORS OR TWO.
RIGHT? I THINK IT'S DEEMED SUFFICIENT.
ANYTHING ELSE WITHIN THIS SECTION? OKAY.
TE HOUSE IS ANYTHING WITH THIS? NOT THE FIRST PART.
UM, ANYTHING ABOUT YARD REQUIREMENTS? Y'ALL GOT THERE? UH, WE HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE FRONT YARD REQUIREMENT FOR THOSE, BUT DR.
HORTON'S WITH THAT ON, WITH THE RIGHT OF WAY.
[01:15:05]
DO YOU REMEMBER? THEY, THEY, THEY, THEY BELIEVED THAT 40 FOOT SETBACK WAS NOT APPROPRIATE.WHY? THEY SAID THAT AT THAT POINT, IT, IT JUST BASICALLY ON THE SITE, THE SITE WAS, YOU KNOW, RELATIVELY SLOPED ONE DIRECTION.
SO THEY WANTED THE HOMES CLOSER TO THE STREET FOR EXCAVATION PURPOSES TO SAVE MM-HMM
BECAUSE YOU HOW A SITE SLOPES THIS WAY, WHEN WE REQUIRED IT TO GO BACK, THEY HAD TO EXCAVATE MORE.
THEY WANTED TO BE ABLE TO PULL HIM FORWARD AND THERE WAS JUST NO WAY FOR US FOR THEM TO DO THAT.
LET ME, YEAH, I DON'T, IT DOESN'T SEEM UNREASONABLE.
SO WE, DO YOU WANNA MODIFY THIS? I MEAN, THAT WAS A ONE OFF.
UM, YEAH, THE PROBLEM IS, IS LIKE WITH THESE SETBACKS, A VARIANCE ISN'T ALWAYS NECESSARY BECAUSE I DON'T WANNA SPEND THE MONEY ON CONCRETE IS NOT A GOOD, THAT'S NOT A HARDSHIP.
ARE THERE ANY SAFETY, ANY POSSIBLE SAFETY CONCERNS? 'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA BE DEALING WITH MORE AND MORE SLOPED LUNCH.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T, WE DON'T REQUIRE 40 FEET IN LIKE THE R TWO R THREE.
I THINK THE REASONING BEHIND THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE 40 FOOT SETBACK WITH TWO PARKING SPACES WHEN YOU HAVE A TOWN HOME, SO YOU REQUIRE TWO PARKING SPACES.
THE PARKING SPACES HAVE TO BE EIGHT.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE STACKED.
THEY COULD BE, BUT THEN THEY, THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE IN THE FRONT.
WELL, I'M JUST SAYING IN THE FRONT TWO PARKING SPACES FRONT TO BACK IS 18 AND 1836, THEN YOU HAD A FIVE FOOT OR A REQUIREMENT FROM THE PAVEMENT TO THE HOUSE.
THAT'S THE RATIONALE BEHIND THE 40 FEET.
BUT THAT ALSO, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE IN THE FRONT.
IT CAN NOT EVEN, BUT THE, THE THING IS WITH THE TOWN HOMES BEING ONLY 20 FOOT WIDE, THE PARKING SPACES ARE NINE FOOT WIDE.
SO WHEN YOU DO THOSE SIDE BY SIDE, YOU HAVE 18 FOOT IN THE FRONT IS TAKEN UP BY PAVEMENT.
BUT THE MINIMUM LOT WIDTH FOR TOWNHOUSE IS 20 FEET.
BUT TYPICALLY TOWN HOMES ARE 20 FOOT, SO YOUR PARKING SPACE IS SIDE BY SIDE'S, GOING TO TAKE UP 18 FOOT OF THAT LOT.
SO YOU GIVE THE PERSON THE OPTION.
DO YOU DO SIDE BY SIDE PARKING OR FRONT TO BACK PARKING? BUT IF YOU HAVE A GARAGE, YOU CAN COUNT THAT AS A PARKING SPACE.
AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A 40 FOOT SET.
BUT NOT ALL POUND HOMES HAVE GARAGES.
NOT ALL OF THEM NEED A 40 FOOT SETBACK.
I JUST, IT JUST SEEMS, I MEAN, TO ME IT'S EXCESSIVE, BUT OKAY.
I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, THE RATIONALE BEHIND IT.
COULD WE, IF YOU DON'T HAVE A GARAGE, I UNDERSTAND THE MAP.
LIKE I UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS.
I'M JUST SAYING NO, I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU.
I JUST COULD WE WHOLE, AND I KNOW THAT I'M TYPICALLY ONE FOR LARGER SETBACKS THAN NOT, BUT COULD WE PULL THE FRONT FORWARD? MY IDEA, MY THOUGHT HERE IS IF IT'S, IF THE RATIONALE IS PARKING, THEN IF A DEVELOPER IS GOING TO BE MAKING THEIR, THEM HAVE A STACKED PARKING SITUATION THAT IS GONNA FORCE THE HOUSE TO GO FURTHER BACK OR FORCE ONE OF THE CARS TO BE PARTIALLY OR FULLY IN THE HOUSE.
SO HAVING A SETBACK THAT'S CLOSER TO THE ROAD ACTUALLY HAS NO REAL IMPACT IF THEY'RE GONNA BE STILL HAVING THOSE TWO PARKING SPOTS.
AND IT ACTUALLY ALLOWS MORE CREATIVITY IF THEY DECIDE TO DO PARKING IN THE REAR OR IN SOME OTHER FORMAT.
AND WE DON'T NECESSARILY NEED TO DO A FULL 40 FEET.
LIKE MY HOUSE IS NOT EVEN 40 FEET.
AND I HAVE A DRIVEWAY IN A GARAGE.
SO I, I COULD SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
AND THEN I DUNNO, WHAT DO WE THINK? WELL, PART OF THE, PART OF THESE PARKING LOTS TOO, IS YOU GONNA HAVE TRAFFIC BEHIND THE PARKING PLACE THEMSELVES TOO, RIGHT? WELL, IT'S JUST THE DRIVEWAY.
WELL, THE DRIVEWAY, BUT THEN OTHER, IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER TOWNHOUSE, SOMEONE HAS TO DRIVE BEHIND ME TO GET TO YOUR TOWNHOUSE.
[01:20:01]
OH, THAT'S IF YOUR PARKING'S IN THE REAR.I'M JUST SAYING WHAT IT IS TRYING TO DO IS COVER ALL POSSIBILITIES IN HERE WITHOUT HAVING TO WRITE EVERY POSSIBLE EXCEPTION.
I HAVE A ONE CAR GARAGE, SO I NEED ONE CAR GARAGE AND ONE TO PARK OUT FRONT, HAVE A NEW CAR GARAGE.
BUT THERE'S GOTTA BE A WAY TO MAKE IT FLEXIBLE.
LIKE, OKAY, IF IT, LIKE, IF A PARTICULAR SITE, MAYBE 40 FEET IN THE FRONT DOESN'T WORK, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU COULD, IF THE 40 FEET IN THE BACK OR YOU WANNA PARK IN THE REAR 40 FEET, YOU WANNA PARK OUT FRONT 40 FOOT SETBACK, LIKE MAYBE ADJUST THE SETBACKS BASED ON RIGHT EVENT.
BUT I WANNA BE CAREFUL WITH AND IS APPROVING SOMETHING.
AND THEN THE BUILDER DOES SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
LIKE WE'VE SEEN WHERE THEIR CONCEPT PLAN SAYS ONE THING AND THEN THEIR REALITY DOES SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
AND THEN IT'S, OH, WELL IT'S TOO LATE.
AND NOW THEY'RE ASKING FOR A VARI BECAUSE THEY'RE STUCK BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE AND WE CHANGE THEIR, UH, RETAIN WALLS.
UM, WE LIKE, WELL HOW, WHAT ABOUT THIS, WHAT IF FOR THE FRONT YARD AND THE REAR YARD, IT'S A TOTAL OF AN 80 FOOT SETBACK WITH A MINIMUM OF 20 FEET ON THE OTHER SIDE, FIVE MORE SECONDS.
AND IT ALLOWS FOR CREATIVITY, BUT STILL GIVES THE FULL AMOUNT.
RIGHT? IT PROVIDES FLEXIBILITY.
WHAT WAS THAT AGAIN? IT'S OH, 80 FOR THE FRONT AND, AND REAR.
AND THEN THAT GIVES HIM SOME FLEXIBILITY TO MOVE IT BACK FORWARD DEPENDING ON WHERE THE WEAPON PARKED.
BUT SOMEONE, IF YOU DO THAT, YOU'RE SAYING THEY COULD HAVE A 20 FOOT SET BACK IN THE FRONT AND THEN HE COULD PUT THE PARKING IN THE FRONT, BUT IT MAY NOT FIT UNTIL HE WOULD BE FORCED TO DO THE BACK.
I MEAN THE, THE PARKING WOULD FORCE HIS HAND.
UNLESS HE WANTS TO PUT A GARAGE AND THEN ONE CAR IN THE FRONT, IN WHICH CASE 20 FEET IS FINE.
WE'D BE STILL LOOKING AT THE PARKING STANDARDS, I WOULD THINK WITH IT, WITH SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
AND WHAT'S YOUR HESITATION? WELL, IF YOU DO A 20 FOOT IN THE FRONT, THE PARKING STAND REQUIRES 18 FOOT DEPTH AND THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO IN THE BACK.
WHAT IF THERE'S NO POSSIBILITY TO COME IN THE BACK? WELL THEN THEY HAVE TO PUT IN THE FRONT SOMEWHERE.
WE'RE JUST GIVING THEM THE FLEXIBILITY TO MOVE THE UNIT FORWARD OR BACKWARDS, DEPENDING ON WHERE THEY NEED TO PUT THE PARKING.
THE ONLY THING WITH THE 20 ON THE FRONT, THAT, THAT IS THE LEASE SETBACK WE HAVE IN ANY ZONING DISTRICT.
AND WE CAN MAKE A MINIMUM OF, OF 30.
UM, I JUST, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING, THE OTHER R ONE, R TWO AND R THREE, NOW YOU'RE ALLOWING TOWN HOMES TO BE CLOSER TO THE STREET THAN ANY OTHER BUILDING TYPE.
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? AND WHEN YOU WALK DOWN, LIKE OLD TOWN,
I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH THE BEING DOWN HERE, DOWN ON MAIN STREET.
THE BUILDINGS ARE ON THE SIDEWALK.
I'M JUST, JUST DO IT ON A PERFORMANCE BASED STANDARD INSTEAD JUST, JUST THROWING SOMETHING OUT THERE SINCE WE'RE HAVING ALL THIS CONVERSATION INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, PREVENT VEHICLES FROM OVERHANGING SIDEWALKS, UM, ALLOW FOR PEDESTRIAN ACCESS OR STUFF HERE.
PROVIDE SPACE, LANDSCAPING THE SCREEN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT INSTEAD OF, INSTEAD OF HAVING THE FOOT JUST AS A WAY OF LOOKING AT IT.
WELL, EVERYTHING ELSE WHEN IT COMES TO HOMES AND YARDS HAVE FEET.
MAYBE MY THOUGHT THERE OR, OR, OR JUST CUT IT BACK.
IF YOU HAVE A SPECIFY, IF YOU HAVE A GARAGE, YOU, YOU CAN GET IT DOWN TO 18 FEET IF YOU OR REAR PARKING, REAR OR REAR PARKING, YOU COULD BRING IT DOWN TO THAT OR REAR PARKING WITH A GARAGE.
UM, SETBACK IF IT'S A REAR PARKING WITH A GARAGE.
COULD WE, COULD WE TAKE A LITTLE SIDE TRICK BACKWARDS AND GO BACK TO, WHAT IS THE PARKING
[01:25:01]
REQUIREMENT FOR A TOWNHOUSE SUB? I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S PER HOUSE IS TWO YES.BUT THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY ALWAYS WORK IN PRACTICE BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE COMPANY OR THEY HAVE WELL, WELL, IT'S NOT THAT ALL CARS MUST BE OFF THE STREET, IT'S THAT THEY MUST PROVIDE AT LEAST TWO.
BUT BUT WHAT ABOUT THE ALL CARS OFF THE STREET BUSINESS? THERE IS NO, ALL CARS OFF THE STREET CAN PARK, YOUR VISITORS CAN PARK ON THE STREET.
WELL THEY CAN'T ALWAYS PARK ON THE STREET.
SUBDIVISIONS, UH, I'M THINKING OF, I'M THINKING OF ONE IN COUNTY THAT WHERE MY DAUGHTER USED TO LIVE.
UM, AND, UH, THEY HAD, WELL THAT'S, THEY, THAT'S AT HOAS PREROGATIVE.
WELL, BUT THEN THE PLAN ALLOWED FOR, YOU KNOW, THE GARAGE AND THE DRIVEWAY.
SO RIGHT NOW'S OUTSIDE THE GARAGE AND THE DRIVEWAY.
BUT THEN THERE WERE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF OVERFLOW PARKING PART OF THE PLAN THAT WAS REQUIRED.
AND SO THE DEVELOPER BUILT THE REQUIRED NUMBER OF THE OVERFLOW PARKING, BUT IT WAS BADLY IN YEAH.
AND THAT'S PART OF THE RISK THAT I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THAT AT ALL.
RATHER JUST PEOPLE PARK ON THE STREET BECAUSE THEN THEY HAVE FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT THERE AS OPPOSED TO HAVING TO WALK A QUARTER MILE AND GO OVER TO THE OVERFLOW.
WELL, BUT THE PROBLEM WAS WITH THIS, THIS SUBDIVISION, AND I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN TO GET ONE HERE OR NOT, IF WE HAVE THE RIGHT LAND, BUT IT WAS KIND OF A, A U-SHAPED STREET.
AND SO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT SAID, UH, CAMP STREET, YOU NOW.
SO WELL, THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE STUDIES THAT ARE DONE WITH OUR STUFF ANYWAY, WHEN WE LOOK AT SUBDIVISIONS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU'D BE ON OVER AN ACRE AND ONCE YOU HIT A LARGE OR AN ACRE OR MORE FOR THE TOWNHOUSE SECTION, YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL PROVISIONS FOR OPEN SPACE.
WHAT ARE THOSE, HOW THOSE COUNT THOSE ADDITIONAL PROVISIONS FOR EXTRA SPACE PRODUCT DOWN THERE? YEAH.
ALTHOUGH PEOPLE IN MY DAUGHTER'S SUBDIVISION ENDED UP PARKING THEIR CARS IN THEIR
HOA DIDN'T LIKE THAT, BUT THEY DID THAT KIND OF D THIS DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE NUMBER OF, I MEAN, WE'VE GOT A FORMULA FOR X NUMBER OF PARKING STATIONS PER HOUSES, SQUARE FEET IN RETAIL.
WE'RE NOT, IT ISN'T ACCOUNTING FOR GUESTS.
I DON'T, YEAH, BUT IS THAT GOOD PLANNING? YES.
HOW DO YOU FIGURE THAT? BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE A TWO IS ALREADY A HIGH REQUIREMENT IN GENERAL.
AND THERE WILL ALWAYS BE VARIANCE WHERE PEOPLE HAVE FEWER PEOPLE HAVE MORE.
AND IF WE ARE GONNA BE CONSISTENTLY, WE'RE FORCING MORE, THEN WE ARE MAKING THIS AN ACTUAL DETRIMENT TO PEOPLE WHO ARE WANTING TO BUILD CREATIVELY OR TO BUILD WELL, BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA NEED TO PUT IN MORE PAVEMENT UNNECESSARILY.
WELL THEN WE'RE ESSENTIALLY REQUIRING
IT WILL ALLOW PARK PARKING AT LEAST ALONG ONE SIDE.
A LOT OF THEM WILL DO THAT BECAUSE THEY WANT PEOPLE TO BUY THE PROPERTY THERE AND THEY WANNA MAKE IT, YOU KNOW.
UH, BUT IF YOU LIVE, YOU'RE NOT HAVING 30 PEOPLE COME OVER, THEY'RE GONNA MEET SOMEWHERE ELSE OR NO, BUT IF YOU HAVE ONE COME OVER, THEY HAVE TO PARK SOMEWHERE THEY CAN PARK ON THE STREET.
NO, THAT, THAT'S THE PROBLEM IN THAT, IN THAT SUBDIVISION, THEY, SCOTT IN COUNTY, DO WE HAVE IN OUR, IN OUR LANGUAGE HERE THAT REQUIRE FOR GUESTS? NO, I'M, I'M SAYING, I'M ASKING, DO WE HAVE IN OUR LANGUAGE HERE SOMETHING THAT TOWNHOUSES MUST BE BUILT ON PUBLIC STREETS THAT ARE WIDE ENOUGH TO ALLOW PARKING? ALL OF OUR PUBLIC STREETS ARE WIDE ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE.
WELL, AT THE MOMENT THEY HAVE.
BUT A DEVELOPER MIGHT COME AND BILL THEIR STREET WIDTH WOULD HAVE TO BE APPROVED ANYWAY.
REVIEW THE STREET AND I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE LOOKED AT FOR, UM, MARSH EXCEPTION OF WEST MAKE THE STREETS NARROW.
BUT IT WASN'T TOWN HOMES, BUT IT WAS STILL, THE STREETS CAME BEFORE US AND WE HAD TO LOOK AT IT AND SEE IF THAT MADE THE DEEP HOLE WIDTH ALLOWS FOR PARKING.
BUT YOU STILL PARKED ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET MARSHALLS LAND.
AND IF THEY HAD COME TO US AND SAID, THERE'S GONNA BE NO PARKING IN THE STREET, WE WOULD'VE SAID, YOU'RE CRAZY.
IT STILL COMES BEFORE THE, THE, THE, THE COMMISSION STILL GOES BEFORE THE COUNCIL.
AND PEOPLE LOOK AT THIS AND SEE DOES THIS MAKE SENSE FOR
[01:30:01]
THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE OF THAT COMMUNITY? WE'VE NEVER HAD A TOWNHOUSE WHOLE SUBDIVISION ANYWAY, WE'RE, IT'S JUST, IT'S NOT REQUIRED TO PROVIDE GUEST PARKING IN, IN OUR CODE.AND I KNOW, NOR NOR REALLY CAN CAN IT BE THAT'S LIKE, THE PEOPLE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD JUST HAD THE GRADUATION PARTIES.
IT WAS AND CLEARLY WASN'T ENOUGH.
ON WIDE ROAD, BUT YOU CAN'T ACCOUNT FOR EVERYTHING.
SO, SO GETTING, GETTING BACK TO THE, UM, THE ONE SOLUTION, THE ONLY SOLUTION I CAN SEE IN THIS, THIS ROUNDABOUT IS PUT A SPEC SPECIFICITY TO FRONT PARKING, FRONT GARAGE PARKING, REAR PARKING, REAR GARAGE PARKING, AND ACTUALLY BREAK THEM OUT.
AND THE ONLY THINK ABOUT IT, CAN WE JUST MOVE ON TO THE NEXT PLACE AND JUST THINK ABOUT IT.
I I HAVE AN IDEA FOR SOME WORDING THERE THAT I, I'LL SEND OVER TO YOU.
UM, BUILDING HEIGHTS, WELL, HERE'S OUR PARKING SPACES.
UM, JUST A NOTE WHERE IT SAYS, UM, JUST FOR TWO STORIES AT 35 FEET, THAT'S GONNA COME UP LATER ON IN THIS DOCUMENT.
JOHN, IS THERE SOMETHING? YEAH, I GOT SOMETHING.
WERE YOU, UH, THERE'S NO ONE HALF WITH THE NUMBER IN PARENTHESES.
SORRY, WHERE? UNDER, UH, TWO ONE HALF.
UH, FOUR AND HALF NOW THEREABOUTS.
SO E TWO, I THINK THAT, THAT, THAT SHOULD BE NINE BY, THEY'RE ON E MM-HMM
THERE WE HAVE TOWNHOUSE PARKING SPACES ARE 10 BY 20.
I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD REQUIRE LARGER SPACES WITH HIGHER DENSITY TOWNHOUSES REQUIRE BY THIS CODE NOW PRESENTLY REQUIRE A LARGER PARKING SPACE THAN ANY OTHER.
IF YOU THINK THAT'S SUFFICIENT OR WHAT.
SO ARE WE, I MEAN, I'LL JUST TYPE IT IN AND THEN I CAN YEAH.
WHAT'S, WHAT IS THE, WHAT'S THE RIGHT NUMBER? WHAT'S THE TYPICAL NINE BY 18? NINE BY EIGHT.
10 BY 20 IS THE SIZE FOR A DA VAN ACCESSIBLE SPACES.
NINE BY 18 IS YOUR STANDARD SPACE.
I DON'T KNOW WHY THE REASONING BEHIND IT A LARGER PARKING SPOT OR A TO TOWN HOME.
'CAUSE ALL IT DOES IS USE UP MORE OF THE LANDFILL, ASPHALT, THE WHOLE FRONT YARD.
DOES THE TOWNHOUSE LIKE 20 FOOT WIDE? BUT NO PARKING SPACE SHALL BE LOCATED CLOSER THAN 10 FEET TO ANY TOWNHOUSE UNIT.
ACTUALLY I HAD SEEN THAT EARLIER.
I STOPPED IT BECAUSE WE WERE WANTED TO MOVE ON FROM THE SECTION ANYWAY, BUT, UM, WE HAVE THAT IT'S THE SAME FOR, UH, LIKE PARKING IS ALSO UP HERE IN OUR YARD REQUIREMENTS.
SO IT'S, IT'S JUST, IT'S MIRRORED DOWN HERE.
I'M HERE, I, ON THE ONE HAND, I THINK 10 FEET OR SOME SORT OF FOOT.
UM, BECAUSE YOU WANNA BE ABLE TO OPEN YOUR DOOR WITHOUT WHACKING SOMEONE ELSE'S CAR.
UH, OR NO PARKING SHOPPING LOCATED CLOSE TO 10 FEET IF YOU HAVE IN THE GARAGE.
BUT IF YOU HAVE A GARAGE OR IN IT AND YEAH.
AND YOU'RE STANDING PARKING IN YOUR OWN GARAGE.
UH, WELL, IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS, THEN IT SHOULD JUST SAY NEIGHBORING, NEIGHBORING TOWNHOUSE.
UM, BUT DOES 10 FEET MAKE SENSE? DO WE WANT TO PULL THAT DOWN AT ALL? ENGINEERING SIDE IS THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE A 10 FOOT FROM THE NEIGHBORING TOWNHOUSE THEN WHAT IS THIS? BECAUSE WE EVEN NEED THIS.
SO IF WE GO WITH A 20 FOOT LOT MM-HMM
RIGHT TO THE LOT 20, 20 FOOT WIDE.
SO THEN YOU HAVE, YOU ONLY HAVE, YOU CAN ONLY PUT ONE PARKING SPACE THERE.
YOU CAN'T DOUBLE SIDE BY SIDE PARK BECAUSE NOW IT'S CLOSER THAN 10 FEET FROM THE SIDE.
SO IF THE, SO THEN LET'S GET THIS, WELL, LET'S THIS ARBITRARY.
THIS WAS INTERPRETED AS THE FRONT.
YOU SHOULD NOT PARK CLOSER THAN 10 FEET FROM THE FRONT OF THE TOWN HALL.
[01:35:01]
LEAVES THE SIDEWALK AND LANDSCAPING.SO THE CAR'S NOT PULLED RIGHT UP THE DRIVEWAY.
THAT'S THE REASON THAT THE 40 FOOT DEPTH.
BUT YEAH, BUT IF YOU HAVE A 40 FOOT DEPTH AND TWO CARS PARKED, STACKED, THEY'RE GONNA BE WITHIN 10 FEET OF THE FRONT OF THAT HOUSE.
WELL, YOU'D HAVE THE TOWNHOUSE.
THEN YOU HAVE TO COME BACK 10 FEET FOR THE PARKING.
SO WAIT, WHY CAN'T YOU HAVE YOUR DRIVER
THEN THE NOSE OF MY CAR WOULD BE WHERE YOU'RE SITTING.
WHY? AND WHO'S ENFORCING THAT? WELL, NO, I I'M JUST CURIOUS.
LIKE YEAH, THAT'S HOW IT'S WRITTEN.
WELL, SO THAT'S THE, THE HOUSE THERE, THE PARKING SPOT, 10 FOOT AWAY.
THEN THE DEPTH OF THE PARKING IS 20 FOOT CURRENTLY.
SO THAT WOULD REQUIRE A 50 FOOT STEP BACK.
WELL THEN, THEN THE NEXT VEHICLE HAS TO BE SIDE BY SIDE.
YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? JOHN WAS SILLY.
I
YOU HAD HAVE TWO PARKING, TWO CARS.
YOU TYPICALLY DECIDE WHAT THE OBJECTIVE IS.
SO I DON'T RECALL ANY TOWN HOMES HERE IN TOWN THAT HAVE PARKING IN THE REAR.
SO 10 FOOT BACK IS THE FIRST CAR YOU PARK SIDE BY SIDE, TAKEN UP THE WIDTH OF THE LOT.
SO 10 FOOT IN THE FRONT, 20 FOOT FOOT PARKING SPACE, THEN THE DISTANCE OFF OF THE SIDEWALK, UH, UNDER, UH, THE OTHER PART OF THE SECTION.
NO PARKING SPACE SHALL BE LOCATED CLOSER THAN 10 FEET.
UH, FROM THE TOWN HOME, YOU HAVE TO HAVE TWO OF 'EM AND THEY'RE 10 TO 20.
WE PROBABLY SHOULD CHANGE THAT.
HOW ABOUT THIS? NO PARKING SPACE SPATIALLY LOCATED CLOSER THAN 10 FEET.
IF PARKING IS SIDE BY SIDE IN FRONT OF THE, IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, THE WATER ON THE RIGHT.
UM, I JUST, BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU'RE HAVING 'EM SIDE BY SIDE, YOU CAN'T HAVE THEM BOTH WRITE UP A BUTTING TO THE HOUSE BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE TWO FEET ESSENTIALLY TO BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH YOUR FRONT DOOR.
SO THAT MAKES SENSE TO THEN BE FORCED BEFORE THE BACK SO YOU CAN HAVE THAT SPACE.
BUT IF THEY'RE STACKED AND NOT SIDE BY SIDE, THEN YOU CAN HAVE 'EM RIGHT UP NEXT TO IT BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE WALKING UP TO THE FRONT DOOR IS TO THE SIDE ANYWAY.
WHAT'S YOUR PROPERTY? SO I'M SEEING TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF TOWN HOMES.
SO ONE WHERE THERE IS A DRIVEWAY, RIGHT? MM-HMM
THE OTHER IS, IT'S LIKE A PRIVATE PARKING LOT WHERE THIS WOULD BE 10 FEET.
THERE IS NO'S A PARKING LOT I THINK OF DUCK STREET.
YOU'VE GOT THE GARAGE, YOU'VE GOT THAT WHOLE PARKING AREA IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANNA CALL EVERY, JUST PARKING FROM THE HOUSE GARAGE.
I MEAN IT'S, HAS THIS REGULATION CAUSED ANY PROBLEM IN EXISTING FORM IN TOWN HOMES? I DON'T THINK IT'S CAUSED PROBLEMS FOR THE PEOPLE LIVING THERE, PER SE.
I MEAN, FOR, FOR YOU BUILDERS HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE ONLY THING WAS ON THE SIZE OF THE PARKING SPACE.
THOSE ARE THE ONLY COMPLAINTS WE'VE HAD.
IF WE STRUCK THREE ENTIRELY, WOULD WE BE RUNNING A RISK OF ALLOWING OR ENCOURAGING POOR DEVELOPMENT? IF IT HAS NO, IF REMOVING THIS WOULD HAVE NO IMPACT ON DEVELOPMENT, THEN DO WE NEED IT? I MEAN, WHEN WE GET THE PLAN, THEY SHOW ON THAT PLAN WHERE THEY'RE PLANNING, HOW THEY'RE PROVIDING THOSE TWO OFF STREET PARKING SPACES.
I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU NEED TO TELL THEM THAT THEY CAN'T BE CLOSER TO IT.
IT JUST, AGAIN, I THINK I AGREE WITH MR. SONNET.
YOU KNOW WHAT'S OBJECTIVE? DO YOU WANT GREEN SPACE BETWEEN THE TOWNHOUSE AND THE VEHICLE FOR SIDEWALK AND SOME LANDSCAPING? I, I'M PICTURING THE GARAGE OR THE PARKING AREA BEING A LITTLE BIT OFF TO THE SIDE.
SO YOU HAVE YOUR LITTLE WALKWAY TO THE FRONT DOOR AND IT'S NOT LIKE, I DON'T KNOW THAT I SEE.
THE ENTRY DOOR IS IN THE CENTER.
[01:40:01]
THE TOWNHOUSE.THE
BUT OUR 10 FOOT BUFFER GIVES LANDSCAPING IN THE FRONT.
YEAH, THERE'S A LITTLE FOR THE, YEAH, THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS YOU CAN DO IT.
IT'S JUST LIKE YOU SAY, THE INTENT TO WHAT YOU'RE TRYING, TRYING TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THE 10 FEET DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
AND THAT'S WHAT I'M PICTURING IN MY HEAD.
BUT WE REQUIRE TREES TO BE PLANTED AND I JUST WONDER, WE'RE TRYING FIX, WE DON'T ENCOURAGE CONCRETE EVERYWHERE.
ARE WE FIXING A PROBLEM THAT DOESN'T EXIST? WE MAKING IT HARDER.
I GUESS MY ONLY QUESTION IS, IS HAVING THIS IN HERE MAKING ATTRACTIVE AND GOOD DEVELOPMENT MORE DIFFICULT MM-HMM
AND IF IT IS, THEN LET'S STRIKE IT.
BECAUSE THE THINGS THAT THIS WOULD IMPACT ARE THINGS THAT WE LOOK AT.
ARE WE ALL OKAY WITH THIS BEFORE I HIT DELETE
AND THEN IN THAT CASE, UM, DELETE THAT AS WELL.
MAN, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE SO MUCH FUN TALKING ABOUT PARKING WITH THIS SAFETY COUNCIL.
UM, AS LONG AS IT'S NOT FAIRFAX, SOMETHING HAPPENS.
UH, ANYTHING IN HERE IN THIS SECTION? NO.
BECAUSE THESE ARE PRETTY STANDARD.
UM, THAT AS DETERMINED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
THAT'S THAT'S ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE THAT'S YEAH.
THAT'S ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE FOX WHAT'S TALKING ABOUT.
SO SORRY, WHAT'S THE HEADING HERE? THESE ARE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR, SO THIS ONE IS SPECIFICALLY OTHER REGULATIONS FOR ALL OTHER REGULATIONS THAT HAVE, UM, IT'S INTERESTING IS THAT WE SAY EARLIER THAT PARKING IN THE FRONT MAY BE REQUIRED, BUT THEN PARKING THE BACK MAY BE PERMITTED.
UM, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A SUBDIVISION.
UM, AND A NINE WE'VE HAD ISSUES WITH JOHN, YOU'RE AGREEING THAT 10 IS UH, IS A SUBDIVISION ISSUE.
UH, GO BACK UP TO NUMBER SEVEN FOR ME A MOMENT.
SO NOW AGAIN ON THE WORDING, I GUESS I'M A LITTLE PARTICULAR MM-HMM
WE SAY ACCESSORY BUILDINGS ARE NOT PERMITTED EXCEPT THAT ONLY LOT.
THERE MAY BE AN ENCLOSED STORAGE SHED.
SO ACCESSORY BUILDING, WE DEFINE THAT.
SO ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, ACCESSORY STRUCTURE IS NOT PERMITTED EXCEPT FOR A SHED OF THIS DIMENSION.
BUT, BUT THE SHED IS AS ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
WELL, THAT'S WHY IT SAYS ACCEPT.
IT SHOULD NOT BE AN ENCLOSED STORAGE SHED.
IT JUST SHOULD BE THE ACCESSORY BUILDING SHALL NOT EXCEED THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE SHALL NOT EXCEED.
SEVEN FEET HEIGHT OR 10 FEET WIDE.
THEY'RE SETTING A MAXIMUM SIZE OF HALF OF, OF AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.
BUT I DON'T LIKE WHEN WE, IN THE SAME SENTENCE CALL IT A STORAGE SHED IN ACCESSORY BUILDING ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, UH, SHALL NOT EXCEED.
SO JUST, YOU KNOW, GET RID OF ALL OF THAT UNTIL YEP.
[01:45:04]
AND THEN NUMBER NINE, THAT THREE FOOT VARIATION.UM, WE'VE HAD BUILDERS THAT HAVE STRUGGLED BECAUSE THEY'RE THE OFFSETS WERE, I GUESS THEY'RE, THEIR ROOF JOISTS, UH, ARE TYPICALLY IN MULTIPLES OF TWO.
SO TO HAVE THAT BE THREE, THAT'S BASICALLY FORCING THEM TO GO TO FOUR FOR THAT JOG.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S CHANGED.
DO YOU WANT A FOUR FOOT JOG? I MEAN, YOU'RE EITHER GETTING IT TO LOOK LIKE, LIKE TEETH OR, UM, WHAT WE'VE DONE IS BUILD EVERY FOUR UNITS, THEY'LL HAVE A FOUR FOOT OFFSET AND THEN WE LET THEM DO TWO IN BETWEEN BECAUSE IT'S, IT JUST SEEMS WHAT YOU WERE TRYING TO AVOID HERE IS COOKIE CUTTER AND IF YOU GO THEN YOU'RE JUST DOING A DIFFERENT KIND OF THING BETTER.
BUT THE NOT LESS THAN THREE, YOU'RE GONNA REQUIRE VARIATION AND THEN YOU'RE TELLING THEM THE VARIATION.
WHAT IF WE WERE TO SAY THEN, UM, VARY BY CHANGE FRONT YARDS OF TWO TO FOUR FEET YEAH.
AND GIVE A RANGE AND THEN THEY CAN DO YEAH.
CAN THAT BE ON GROUND LEVEL? HUH? CAN THE ROOFED PORCH BE ON THE GROUND LEVEL? HOW DOES IT HAVE TO BE? SECOND STORY PORCH.
THAT'S LIKE YOUR ENTRY PORCH SHOULD BE OKAY.
AS LONG AS, AS LONG AS IT'S NOT LIMITED TO SECOND STORY PORCH.
AS FAR AS AN ANTEBELLUM STYLE HOUSE,
NOW THIS, THIS WAS AN ODD THING WE'RE GOING THROUGH ABOUT THE 20.25 SQUARE FEET OPEN SPACE, NOT INCLUDING PARKING IN THE DRIVEWAY.
IT IS A, IT'S AN ODD WAY OF DOING THIS.
SO THIS IS FROM A TOWNHOUSES ON LOTS OVER AN ACRE.
IT'S WHEN YOU GET TO THOSE LIKE JUST A TOWNHOUSE COMMUNITY TYPE THING.
AND WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY OF THOSE.
SO DO WE, DO WE WANT TO CHANGE THAT? I WAS MAKING SUGGESTIONS AT THE BOTTOM MORE THE MORE JURISDICTIONS SHOULD USE THE, UM, YOU KNOW, ONE IN 400 PER UNIT OR PERCENTAGE OF THE AREA.
WHAT, WHAT DO OTHER JURISDICTIONS DO TO HAVE THAT? THAT'S WHAT THEY DID.
I MEAN WE COULD JUST SAY A HUNDRED SQUARE FEET OF USABLE OPEN SPACE FOR EVERY 400 SQUARE FEET OF GROSS RESIDENTIAL AREA.
IF WE WANTED TO REMOVE THE HUNDRED PORTION.
BUT THAT WAS JUST SOMETHING FOR DISCUSSION.
ODD AND JUST GET RID OF THE COMMENT.
WE'RE ALMOST HALFWAY THROUGH
THIS, WELL WE HAVE, WE HAD THAT REALLY STIMULATING DISCUSSION ON THAT ONE SECTION.
UM, ANYTHING IN HERE THAT YOU WANT NOT TILL WE GET TO H OKAY.
UM, FOR
WHY ARE WE SPECIFYING AS CARDBOARDS? I PARKING MAY BE PROVIDED ON THE LOT AS CARPORTS, WHICH IS AN OPTION.
UM, I
SO IF PEOPLE COULD DO, GO TO THE, THIS IS OUR STANDARD.
IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE PARKING, YOU CAN PROVIDE IT WITHIN THE 300 FEET REVIEW.
THE LEASE YOU GO, UM, HERE HAS TO BE ON THE LOT.
[01:50:01]
OR WITHIN 300 FEET.SO DO WE WANT IT JUST AS A FREE FLOWING OPTION OR DO WE WANT IT LIKE WHAT'S ELSEWHERE? OR IF SUFFICIENT PARKING CANNOT BE DEVELOPED, THEN A VARIANCE MAY BE, UH, GRANTED THIS LOTS LARGER THAN AN ACRE.
SO ON THAT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE IT LOT.
SO THEN DO WE NEED, AND IF THERE'S MULTIPLE LOTS, THEY SHOULD JUST DO A VALIDATION PRIOR TO STARTING AND THAT'S ACTUALLY PROBABLY WHY THIS CHOICE.
ANYTIME YOU BACK OUT OF A DRIVEWAY, YOU'RE BACKING ONTO THE PUBLIC ROAD.
I MEAN IT'S A DRIVE AISLE SINCE IT'S A BUT IT IS THIS PARKING AREAS AS IN THINK ABOUT THIS.
THIS IS IN THIS, THIS LIKE TOWN HOME ONLY.
SO, AND BUT IS THIS SAYING, WELL, IS PARKING AREA DIFFERENT THAN INDIVIDUAL TOWN HOME PARKING? THIS IS THE POINT OF CLARITY.
IF IT IS, THEN I THEN WE'RE ALL GOOD.
I THINK THAT'S, BY THE WAY, IT IS EACH IS THE SAME THING WITH THE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE TOWN COUNCIL FOR PUBLIC SHALL BE BY WHAT? UH, DANA, FIRST OF ALL.
DO YOU WANNA JUST, I MEAN WE'RE PUTTING CONDITIONS ON SPECIAL USE PERMITS ANYWAY.
THIS IS PARKING, THIS IS PARKING FACILITIES.
THIS IS NOT S USE PERMIT HERE.
UM, SO ARE WE THINKING OF STRIKING THIS LINE THEN? WELL, I THINK OTHER REQUIREMENTS IS OTHER INVOLVE THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, WOULDN'T IT? WHAT I MEAN WHAT OTHER REQUIREMENTS? YEAH.
I SO IF THERE ARE OTHER REQUIREMENTS, THEY HAVE TO BE IN THE CODE.
WAS THIS THE ONE YOU SAID YOU HAD SOMETHING ON? NO, NO.
THAT WAS THE, THAT WAS THE LAST ONE OF THOSE
UM, ANYTHING WITH DRAINAGE THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT? NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.
UM, LIGHTING IS THE SAME AS ANYWHERE ELSE.
UM, DO WE, DO WE TOUCH SITE PLAN REVIEWS? I THOUGHT WE DIDN'T ANYMORE.
SO SHALL BE REVIEWED BY PLANNING DIRECTOR OR DOES IT JUST GO STRAIGHT TO COUNCIL? WELL THIS TOWN, I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU EVEN NEED IT.
WE NUMBER 12 IS YOU DON'T NEED IT, YOU JUST DELETE IT.
12 IS DEALT WITH IN THE SECOND INDIVIDUAL.
UM, THIS IS WHERE, UM, THEY HAVE 35 FEET FOR TWO AND A HALF STORIES AND IT SHOWS 35 FEET FOR THREE STORIES AS WELL.
SO I THINK THAT SHOULD BE 30, 42 FEET.
TWO FEET? NO, THIS, THIS ONE SHOULD BE 42 FEET.
'CAUSE THERE'S THREE STORIES AS OPPOSED WE SAID TWO AND A HALF STORIES.
UH, IF YOU HAVE NINE FOOT, I GUESS THAT MAKES SENSE.
UM, BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE NINE FOOT CEILINGS, THEN IT'S ABOUT A 10 FOOT FLOOR.
AND IF YOU HAVE THREE STORIES, IT'S A TOWN HOME AND YOU'RE PUTTING A FLAT ROOF ON IT.
THE ONLY TIME IT'S DIFFERENT IS IF YOU'RE PUTTING A PEAKED ROOF.
IN WHICH CASE 35 WOOD COVER THREE STORIES.
THAT'S WHY I STARTED LOOKING, WHEN I STARTED LOOKING AT, I SAW, I NOTICED A DISCREPANCY BETWEEN TWO AND A HALF STORIES AND THREE STORIES BEING THE SAME.
THEN I STARTED TO GO LOOK AT WHAT OTHER JURISDICTIONS DID.
AND THAT'S WHERE THE WHAT 42 CAME FROM.
THERE'S ALWAYS ONE ENGLISH MAJOR
THEY DON'T TAKE THAT ENGLISH ANYMORE.
YEAH, IT DROPS IT ALONG WITH CORRECTIVE.
THIS, THIS IS, UH, THIS IS A WEIRD SECTION.
UM, I'M NOT SURE 'CAUSE IT GETS INTO OTHER REGULATIONS AND IT THEN HAS A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT DEALS WITH PARKING
[01:55:01]
AND THEN IT HAS SOME ON LIKE TWO, THREE AND FOUR SHOULD BE, THEY'RE ALL PART OF THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.I BELIEVE THEY SHOULDN'T EVEN BE IN HERE.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE TWO, THREE AND FOUR SUBDIVISION? UM, WE HAVE FOUR IN THE TOWN HOME SECTION.
UM, WE DON'T, THE CURBING GUTTERS DEFINITELY IT SEEMS SUBDIVISION AND WALKWAY SEEMS SUBDIVISION.
BUT THE A CUL-DE-SAC, WE REGULARLY THAT IN SITE PLAN, BUT WE DENOTE IT SPECIFICALLY IN THE TOWN HOME SECTION.
JUST SO DO YOU WANNA TAKE OUT TWO AND THREE BECAUSE, UM, THREE, UH, THE COUNTY JERRY
IT WAS JUST A QUESTION GOING THROUGH THIS.
I JUST WANTED, SO THE QUESTION IS THIS, ARE THESE COVERED IN THE SUBDIVISION OR THEY'RE
SHOULD I JUST PUT A COMMENT ON THIS THEN? THAT IT NEEDS TO BE CONFIRMED THAT THESE EXIST.
UM, GIVEN THAT IT'S 80 ALLOW MUCH
JUST SO WE'RE ONLY A LITTLE OVER HALFWAY THROUGH.
LET'S, WE'RE HALFWAY THROUGH CHANGES TO NONE, BUT ATT IS AS WELL.
AND ON FIVE WE, WE'LL DO FIVE AND CALL IT, IF THAT'S OKAY.
'CAUSE FIVE HAS, UM, F EIGHT BELOW UNDER SPECIAL REGULATIONS.
'CAUSE THIS SECTION IS CALLED, UM, WAS IT OTHER? AND THEN WE HAVE SPECIAL AFTER THAT AND IT GOES INTO DETAIL, BUT I REALIZE THAT IT'S ONE ACRE OR MORE, BUT IT GOES INTO GREAT DETAIL ABOUT ALL THE THINGS PARKING SHOULD BE.
WHILE THIS SECTION JUST HAS ONE LINE CONSIDERING IT, IT SEEMS LIKE POSSIBLY JUST REFERENCE THE ONE BELOW OR WHAT, UM, IT, IT, IT'S A LITTLE CONFUSING OF WHICH, WHICH WAY TO GO ON THAT.
AND I WAS JUST LOOKING FOR WHAT, WHAT DO YOU GUYS WANT TO DO? I'M ASKING YOU.
WE CAN, WE COULD LEAVE IT LIKE IT IS BECAUSE IT TALKS ABOUT THE OFF STREET PARKING THING IN FIVE, BUT THEN YOU GO DOWN TO F AND, AND IT STARTS TALKING ABOUT PARKING.
IT HAS A B, C, D, EFI MEAN, IT HAS NEW WAY TO, I THINK WITH APARTMENTS YOU SHOULD, WE SHOULD MAYBE LOOK AT DROPPING IT DOWN FROM TWO OFF STREET, MAYBE DOWN TO 1.5 BECAUSE THE APARTMENTS, SO JUST ONE CAR.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE APARTMENT COMPLEXES WHERE YOU MAY HAVE ONE AND TWO BEDROOM UNITS OR ELDERLY.
I MEAN, YOU DON'T, THE TWO BECOMES EXCESSIVE, UH, FOR MOST OF THESE APARTMENT COMPLEXES.
UM, SO TO YOUR NOTE WHERE YOU'RE SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, SHOULD THESE BE COMBINED WITH TOWN HOMES WHEN YOU GOT UP TO THE ACRE, THERE WAS A LOT OF EXTRA STUFF IN THERE BECAUSE OF THE SPACE THAT IT TAKES UP.
I THINK IT'S A A, IT WOULD BE A SIMILAR MENTALITY INTO WHY IT WAS CREATED THIS WAY FOR THIS, WHEN IT GETS UP TO AN ACRE, HEY, YOU'RE TAKING UP THIS MUCH SPACE, THERE'S GONNA BE ALL THIS EXTRA STUFF THAT YOU NEED NOW.
UM, AS OPPOSED TO JUST, JUST, JUST A THOUGHT THERE BECAUSE THIS PARKING AREA AND THINGS LIKE THAT AS OPPOSED TO OKAY, WE'LL LEAVE.
SINCE WE'RE ALREADY EIGHT O'CLOCK AND, AND PEOPLE ARE SLIDING IN THEIR CHAIRS