[00:00:01]
WE'LL CALL THE ORDER[Special Planning and Zoning on April 29, 2026]
THE, THE SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, UH, TONIGHT.UH, WILL WILL YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLE COMMISSIONER MARNER? SHE IS NOT PRESENT.
SHE IS CALLING IN CHAIRMAN NEIL PRESENT.
WE HAVE, THERE'S TWO THINGS ON HERE TONIGHT.
PRESENTATION OF THE DRAFT SUBDIVISION, LAND DEVELOPMENT CHAPTER 1 48, UH, BY SUMMIT.
AND THE ENTRANCE COURT IS STUDY BY SUMMIT.
SO I CAN, I GUESS, DO INTRODUCTIONS.
SO TONIGHT, SUMMIT ENGINEERING IS HERE.
THEY'VE BEEN OUR CONSULTANT SINCE BEFORE I STARTED WITH THE TOWN, SO ALMOST FIVE YEARS NOW.
UM, THEY DRAFTED OUR SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE AND THEY, UH, DRAFTED, SORRY, SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, ZONING ORDINANCE, AND OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
SO, UM, WE HAVE MICHAEL STAPLE, IF YOU SAY THE NAME RIGHT, AND THEN WILL TIPPLES WITH SUMMIT TONIGHT.
UM, AND THEY'RE GONNA GIVE YOU GUYS A PRESENTATION ON WHAT THEY'VE DONE HERE.
THANKS FOR COMING, IS A WAY TO ADVANCE SLIDES.
THANK YOU ALL FOR HAVING US AND THANK YOU FOR THE INTRODUCTION.
UM, WHICH, WHICH ONE DO I, HOW, WHY DID THEY POINT THE BIG ONE? BIG? ALRIGHT, I'LL CONTROL IT, I GUESS.
UM, YEAH, IF YOU JUST GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
UM, SO TODAY WE'RE JUST GONNA KIND OF GO OVER, UM, SOME OF OUR RECOMMENDED CHANGES FOR THE, UM, FRONT ROW SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
UM, AND WE'RE GONNA GO OVER SOME OF THE, UH, WORK THAT WE'VE DONE FOR STATE CODE COMPLIANCE REVIEW.
UM, AND THEN WE'LL GET INTO SOME OF THE WORK THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING WITH, UH, FOR THE OVERLAY DISTRICT.
UM, SO, UM, WHAT WE DID, WHAT WE STARTED OFF WITH IS WE HAVE, UM, A CHECKLIST THAT WE DO LIKE A SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON OF, UM, EACH APPLICABLE STATE CODE SECTION.
UM, AND WE, WE COMPARED THAT TO THE FRONT ROYAL SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE TO DO A STATE CODE COMPLIANCE CHECK.
UM, GENERALLY WE FOUND THAT THE ORDINANCE IS MOSTLY IN COMPLIANCE, UM, BUT THERE'S A FEW DISCREPANCIES RELATED TO SOME MOST RECENT UPDATES, UM, TO THE CODE OF VIRGINIA.
AND SO WE WENT AHEAD, UM, AND IDENTIFIED THOSE DISCREPANCIES AND YOU'LL SEE THAT, UM, AS WE GO THROUGH.
UH, COULD YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE? OH, JUST WHEN YOU SAY MOST RECENT, AS OF WHICH STATE? UH, 2025 AS OF 12 31, 20 25.
AND WE ALSO, UM, WE ALSO LOOKED AT, UH, SOME OF THE MOST RECENT CHANGES AS WELL JUST TO, UH, MAKE SURE THAT, UH, WE'RE UP TO DATE ON EVERYTHING AND, UM, UH, EVERYTHING IS, IS FINE, AS YOU KNOW RIGHT NOW.
UM, SO ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHANGES THAT YOU'LL SEE THROUGHOUT THE DOCUMENT WHEN YOU DO YOUR DEEP DIVE IS THAT, UM, THE REVIEW TIME PERIOD AND DESIGNATED AGENT IS, WAS A BIG CHANGE IN 2025.
SO, UM, THE, UH, 15.2 DASH 2259, UM, IT CHANGED THE, UM, AUTHORITY AND GUIDANCE TO A DESIGNATED AGENT, UM, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY A PERSON THAT'S DESIGNATED BY THE, UH, DIRECTOR, THE PLANNING DIRECTOR, UM, TO MAKE DECISIONS ON PLATS, UM, FOR SUBDIVISIONS.
UM, AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S A CHANGE FROM, UM, THE PREVIOUS CODE VIRGINIA, SO BEFORE THE, IN THE HANDS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT NOW IT'S GOING OVER TO A, A DESIGNATED AGENT, UM, AND THE DESIGNATED AGENT MUST ACT ON A PLAT WITHIN 45 DAYS, WHICH IS A, UH, REDUCTION IN THE TIMELINE FROM PREVIOUS PERIODS.
SO WE WENT THROUGH, UM, THE ORDINANCE AND FOUND ALL OF THE APPLICABLE SECTIONS THAT THIS APPLIES TO.
AND THEN WE RECOMMENDED CHANGING, UM, TO COMPLY WITH THIS NEW, UM, CHANGE IN THE CODE OF VIRGINIA.
SO THAT, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU'LL SEE.
AND I TRY TO MAKE COMMENTS IN THE DOCUMENT AS WELL TO KIND OF NOTE LIKE, HERE'S THE STATE CODE REFERENCE IF YOU WANT TO SEE WHERE THIS CHANGE IS COMING FROM.
UM, CAN YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE? UM, WE ALSO CREATED THIS, UM, REVIEW PROCESS DIAGRAM, UM, AND THEN THIS WILL BE AVAILABLE ON THE WEBSITE.
UM, SO BASICALLY THIS OUTLINES, UM, THE FULL PROCESS OF IF SOMEONE WERE TO SUBMIT A SUBDIVISION APPLICATION, UM, IF IT'S A MINOR OR MAJOR SUBDIVISION, KIND OF WHAT THAT TIMELINE COULD LOOK LIKE.
[00:05:01]
SUBMITTING AND THEY'RE LIKE, HEY, I'M DOING A MINOR SUBDIVISION, DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT'S GONNA TAKE? THIS WILL KIND OF GIVE, UH, A KIND OF A CLEAR PICTURE OF, UM, WHAT THE, UM, UH, SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE SAYS AND EXACTLY HOW LONG THEY CAN ANTICIPATE.THIS IS A LITTLE BIT CUT OFF AT THE BOTTOM HERE, BUT THIS IS JUST LIKE A LITTLE DISCLAIMER.
IT SAYS, THIS SIMPLIFIED DIS TIMELINE OUTLINES THE GENERAL SUBDIVISION PROCESS, THE LENGTH OF TIME FOR APPROVAL AND RECORDATION OF SUBDIVISION IS DEPENDENT ON THE PROMPTNESS AND COMPLETENESS OF APPLICANT'S SUBMISSIONS.
AND THAT'S JUST TO KIND OF SAY LIKE, YOU NEED TO SUBMIT ALL THE RIGHT MATERIALS AND THIS TIMELINE WILL APPLY.
IS THIS IN THE DOCUMENT? DID YOU THIS CHART? UM, THIS, YEAH, THIS IS IN THE POWERPOINT AND I WILL, UM, UH, LAUREN HAS A COPY OF THIS AS WELL.
IT SEEMS LIKE IT BELONGS IN THE DOCUMENT
AND, UH, IF YOU COULD GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.
UM, SO ONE OF THE, UM, UH, CHANGES WE'RE RECOMMENDING, UM, IS IN ARTICLE TWO, SECTION 1 48 DASH TWO 10.
THIS IS THE ADMINISTRATIVE WAIVER SECTION.
UM, SO, UH, THE ISSUE THAT WE FOUND IN HERE IS THAT THE LANGUAGE IS RATHER VAGUE, AND WE LOOKED AT OTHER ORDINANCES TO TRY TO COMPARE THIS TO, UM, AND WE DIDN'T REALLY SEE, UM, ORDINANCES THAT HAD THIS TYPE OF WAIVER PRESENT.
UM, SO THIS CAN KIND OF LEAD TO SOME ADDITIONAL STAFF TIME TO TRY TO IMPLEMENT THIS TYPE OF WAIVER.
AND IT'S SWEEPING LANGUAGE THAT COULD BE INTERPRETED TO WAIVE SUBDIVISION REQUIREMENTS FOR LARGE SCALE SUBDIVISIONS.
BECAUSE, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THIS SPECIFIC CODE SECTION, YOU COULD, UH, GET AN ADMINISTRATIVE WAIVER FOR A SUBDIVISION OF EIGHT PROPERTIES, WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING YOU SEE IN MANY OTHER ORDINANCES AT ALL.
AND SO WE LOOKED AT SOME OTHER ORDINANCES THAT, UM, THEY HAVE ADMINISTRATIVE WAIVERS FOR, UH, A SUBDIVISION OF TWO.
SO, AND WE THOUGHT THAT'S A MORE, UM, THAT MAKES A LOT MORE SENSE FOR AN ADMINISTRATIVE WAIVER.
SO IF SOMEONE'S JUST SIMPLY TRYING TO SUBDIVIDE THEIR LAND INTO TWO SEPARATE PROPERTIES, GETTING A WAIVER IS PRETTY, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE AS OPPOSED TO EIGHT PROPERTIES, IT'S A LITTLE BIT EXCESSIVE.
UM, SO OUR, OUR RECOMMENDED CHANGE IS TO REDUCE THAT NUMBER DOWN, BUT THEN ALSO, UM, THERE'S SOME AMBIGUOUS AND IN APPLICABLE LANGUAGE IN THAT, UM, CODE SECTION, AND SO WE RECOMMEND REVIEW THAT AS WELL.
SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, FULL RED LINE DOCUMENT, YOU'LL SEE THAT, EXCUSE ME.
UM, STREETS AND ROADWAYS, UM, SO WE'RE ASKED TO LOOK AT THIS.
UM, SO WE, UM, SPOKE WITH SOME FORMER VDOT EMPLOYEES AND THEN WE, UH, WORKED ON THIS SECTION TO, UM, MATCH VDOT STANDARDS TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS WAS KIND OF ALIGNING WITH, UM, WHAT'S, UH, STANDARD FOR VDOT, UH, WHEN IT COMES TO SUBDIVISIONS.
UM, AND SO WE ADDED SOME ADDITIONAL GUIDANCE FOR ALLEYWAYS, UH, A MINIMUM OF 20 FOOT, UH, AND RIGHT OF WAY WIDTH.
UM, SO THIS WAS KIND OF A MINOR CHANGE HERE.
UM, THIS IS JUST REPLACING, UH, DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION RECREATION WITH DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY.
UM, THIS IS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT THE ORDINANCE IS REFERENCING THE RIGHT, UM, UH, STATE DEPARTMENT.
WE'RE ASKED TO LOOK AT THIS AS WELL.
UM, SO WE DID SOME CASE STUDY RESEARCH ABOUT THIS, UM, BECAUSE, UH, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF THIS IS LIKE A NORMAL THING TO HAVE IN YOUR SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
AND SO I LOOKED AT, UM, WINCHESTER AND HARRISONBURG, UM, TO KIND OF GET A, A PICTURE OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING FOR THIS, THIS TYPE OF SUBJECT.
UM, AND SO, UM, I DIDN'T EXACTLY SEE IT AS SOMETHING THAT'S FOUND IN A SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, SO I DON'T THINK IT'S REALLY NECESSARY TO HAVE IT IN YOUR ORDINANCE, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING TO BE THINKING ABOUT IN GENERAL.
UM, SO HARRISONBURG, THEY IMPOSE, UM, A STORM WATER UTILITY FEE AND IT'S CALCULATED BASED ON THE IMPERVIOUS AREA OF EACH PARCEL AND SQUARE FEET.
AND THEN THIS UTILITY FEE FUNDS A STORMWATER ENTERPRISE FUND.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN TO EXPLORE ELSEWHERE IN ANOTHER POLICY FORMAT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S APPLICABLE WITHIN YOUR SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
YOU GO TO YOUR NEXT, THE NEXT LINE.
AND, UM, SO ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENTS, UM, THERE WAS, UH, PART OF YOUR
[00:10:01]
ORDINANCE HAS A LINE ABOUT ENCOURAGING INNOVATIVE DEVELOPMENT AS IT RELATES TO ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENTS.UM, SO THE TERM INNOVATIVE DEVELOPMENT IS A VERY, UM, THERE'S, THERE'S NO DEFINITION OF WHAT IT THAT MEANS IN, IN YOUR ORDINANCE.
UM, AND I KIND OF GOT THE IDEA OF WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO COMMUNICATE WITH THAT WHEN THIS WAS ORIGINALLY PUT TOGETHER.
UM, AND I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO LOOK AT ANOTHER KIND OF, UM, ANOTHER TOWN THAT HAS A LOT OF LIKE ELEVATION CHANGES, UM, TO SEE IF THERE WAS, UH, SOMETHING THAT'S APPLICABLE.
UM, BECAUSE THIS INNOVATIVE DEVELOPMENT WAS LIKE THINKING ABOUT, UM, UH, PROPERTIES THAT HAVE LIKE HIGH ELEVATION GAIN AND LOSS, UM, IN A SMALL AREA.
AND SO, UM, WHAT I DID WAS I TOOK THIS CODE SECTION FROM LEXINGTON, UM, AND I THINK THAT THIS WOULD PROBABLY WORK REALLY WELL AS A REPLACEMENT FOR THIS, UH, CODE SECTION TO JUST PROVIDE A LOT MORE, UM, KIND OF CONCRETE ACTION FOR THE TOWN, UM, TO, UH, DETERMINE HOW TO SUITABLY USE LAND THAT IS IN HIGH ELEVATION, UM, AND TO ENSURE THAT, UH, LIFE LIBERTY, OR EXCUSE ME, UM, WHAT IS IT? WHAT DOES IT SAY THAT HEALTH LIFE AND HEALTH LIFE PROPERTY.
UM, YEAH, SO THAT, THAT WAS KIND OF THE GOAL THERE.
UM, THE PRESERVATION OF NATURAL FEATURES, UM, THIS WAS JUST ANOTHER KIND OF CODE COMPLIANCE TYPE, UM, ADDITION HERE.
UM, SO THE, UH, CODE OF VIRGINIA REFERENCE 15.2 DASH 2245, UM, A LOCALITY MAY NOT REQUIRE, BUT MAY PERMIT THE REMOVAL OF TREES TO CREATE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PONDS.
SO I JUST RECOMMENDED ADDING, UM, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CODE OF VIRGINIA, THE REMOVAL OF TREES TO CREATE STORM MANAGEMENT PONDS OR FACILITIES MAY BE PERMITTED.
UM, ALRIGHT, THAT, THAT, THOSE ARE ALL THE MAJOR CHANGES WE HAD, UM, IN YOUR ORDINANCE.
AS I SAID IN THE BEGINNING, UM, GENERALLY THE ORDINANCE IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE OF VIRGINIA IS JUST SOME OF THESE LATEST CHANGES.
UM, AND THEN SOME OF THOSE LIKE KIND OF MORE MAJOR THINGS FOR THE WAIVER, UM, AND THEN ALSO THE INNOVATIVE DEVELOPMENT.
IS THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR, UH, UH, BRIEFLY WHEN YOU'RE, UH, BRINGING IT FROM EIGHT TO TWO, AND I UNDERSTAND EIGHT IS A LOT.
UH, WHY TWO IN PARTICULAR? UM, I, WE SETTLED ON TWO BECAUSE WE LOOKED AT A COUPLE OF OTHER, UM, ADMINISTRATIVE WAIVERS AND OTHER JURISDICTIONS.
AND I THINK YOU'LL SEE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE RED LINE DOCUMENT, I EVEN HAVE A COMMENT WHERE I HAVE LIKE AN EXAMPLE OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE, UH, WAIVER FOR, UM, I BELIEVE IT'S FAIRFAX COUNTY, RIGHT? AND, AND, UM, IT, UH, TWO IS JUST KIND OF LIKE, UM, LIKE IF SOMEONE'S LIKE JUST IF, IF SOMEONE DECIDES TO SELL LIKE PART OF THEIR LAND, LIKE TO A FAMILY MEMBER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE LIKE SOMETHING IN PLACE SO THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE FULL, UM, SUBDIVISION PROCESS.
UM, WELL, YOU WANT TO DO FULL ON ENGINEERING.
WELL, YEAH, BUT THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING LIKE, WHY NOT THREE OR SOMETHING.
LIKE, I MEAN, SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE SUBSTANTIAL TOO IS JUST TWO.
AND THE IDEA I THINK FROM THIS AND FROM WHAT I SAW BEFORE IS TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THEIR OWN LAND AND NOT GO THROUGH ALL THE ENGINEERING.
AND SO TWO SEEMS UNNECESSARILY RESTRICTIVE.
AND THEN TO SEE THAT THE COMPARISONS ARE BEING MADE TO LOUDOUN AND FAIRFAX, WHICH IS NOT FRONT ROYAL, UM, JUST MAKES ME CURIOUS TO, UH, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE REASONINGS BEHIND IT ON ALMOST A STAFF END.
THIS PORTION OF THE ORDINANCE HAS JUST BEEN A NIGHTMARE.
UM, DEVELOPERS HERE HAVE USED THAT TO BUILD, SAY, EIGHT TOWNHOUSES WITHOUT PULLING A SITE PLAN, WITHOUT PLANNING FOR HOW WATER AND DRAINAGE IS GOING TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR.
AND PART OF THAT IS, IS COMPLETELY OUT OF MY CONTROL.
SO WHEN IT GETS KICKED OVER TO THE COUNTY, IF THE COUNTY DOESN'T REQUIRE THESE PLANS, I DON'T HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON AS FAR AS LIKE NOT SIGNING OFF ON IT.
UM, AND MY CONCERN IS LIABILITY FOR THE TOWN DOWN THE ROAD WHEN SOMEBODY GOES IN AND BUILDS THIS AND THEN PEOPLE START HAVING FLOODING PROBLEMS IN THEIR BASEMENTS OR
[00:15:01]
INTO THEIR LIVING ROOM.AND SO, SORRY, I SIGNED OFF ON IT ALREADY.
YEAH, NO, AND I, I COMPLETELY GET THAT AND I, I DO AGREE, YOU KNOW, EIGHT IS, IT'S KIND OF NOTES THAT THE, THAT HASN'T BEEN CORRECTED SO FAR, BUT, UM, OKAY.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANOTHER NUMBER THAT WOULD, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HAPPY MEDIUM IS TO WHERE, JUST READING THE WHOLE THING HERE FOR A SECOND MM-HMM
UM, WELL, I BELIEVE YOUR, YOUR MINOR SUBDIVISION PROCESS.
COULD YOU, UM, PARDON ME SIR, COULD YOU GO TO THE, UM, SUBDIVISION PROCESS SLIDE? I BELIEVE IT'S THE FOURTH, THIRD OR FOURTH SLIDE MAYBE.
UM, SO YOU DO HAVE IN YOUR ORDINANCE MI A DISTINCTION BETWEEN MINOR AND MAJOR SUBDIVISION AS WELL? YES.
AND SO THAT, UM, THE PROCESS ISN'T AS LENGTHY.
UM, AND IT CAN BE A SKETCH PLAN PRIOR? WELL, IT'S PRIOR TO PRIOR TO THE ENGINEERED, YEAH.
SO IT STILL DOES REQUIRE AN ENGINEERED DRAWING, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT COULD ADDRESS SOME OF THAT, THAT ISSUE.
SO IT'S REALLY FIXING AND ABUSE OF THE PAST.
THIS IS REALLY FIXING AND ABUSE OF THE PAST.
I JUST THINK THAT LATER IT MIGHT BE WORTH HAVING A DISCUSSION OF WHETHER IT'S AN OVERCORRECTION OR NOT, BUT THAT COULD BE HER LATER DATE.
YEAH, I DIDN'T, I SURE HAPPY WILL NOT FIGURING THAT OUT, NUMBER OUT EITHER OFF THE TOP.
WELL, WITH, UM, LIKE WITH ENERGY SERVICES, THEIR DEFINITION OF MINORS DIFFERENT THAN OUR DEFINITION OF MINOR.
SO, UM, OURS IS EIGHT OR FEWER, AND THEN THEIRS WAS FIVE OF FEWER.
SO WE HAD, LIKE WITH THAT ONE DEVELOPMENT UP ON BURG ROAD, ONCE THE PERMITS WERE, THE ZONING PERMITS WERE ISSUED, IT WAS, WELL, WHY ARE WE HAVING TO PAY? WHY DID YOU CHARGE US FOR A MAJOR? BUT ENERGY SERVICES IS CHARGING US FOR MINOR, IT'S TWO SEPARATE DEFINITIONS,
UM, AND THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN LOOK AT ALIGNING TO, IT'S IF ENERGY SERVICES IS BASING IT OFF ON FIVE UNITS, BUT THAT POTENTIALLY BE FAIR.
I JUST WONDER IS IT BURDEN POSSIBLY IS WHEN YOU START GETTING THE MAGIC NUMBER WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN BECOMES A PROBLEM WHERE COSTS START RACKING UP? RIGHT.
IS IS IT 2, 3, 4 OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE THAT THAT'S A IT'S A GOOD POINT, BUT TWO, TWO IS THE, IS THE MOST, MOST CONSERVATIVE NUMBER.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR NO, I WILL SAY, UM, WHEN WE DO THE WORK SESSION, LIKE I HAVE SOME CHANGES.
ONE OF THEM, WELL, THE BIG ONE FOR ME BEING, UM, 1 48, 8 70, AND IT'S THE PARKING STANDARDS AND I THINK IT'S NI THINK THAT OFF STREET PARKING STANDARDS, LIKE REMOVING THEM TO THE ENTIRE HISTORIC DISTRICT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD DISCUSS.
UM, I THINK THAT'LL HELP WITH SOME OF THE, LIKE THE REUSE AND REDEVELOPMENT OF SOME OF THESE MM-HMM
THESE BUILDINGS DOWN HERE IN DOWNTOWN WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD TO DENY USES THAT POTENTIALLY BE GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE PARKING.
THAT BUILDING ACROSS THE STREET OVER HERE WAS A BIG DISCUSSION ON THE PARKING THING THAT COULD HAVE BEEN OTHERWISE OPEN THAT.
DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS FOR SUMMIT REGARDING THE CHANGES THEY MADE, WHY THEY MADE THEM, IF YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN ALL OF THEIR KIND OF THEIR BACK AND FORTH, THEIR COMMENTS? MM-HMM
NO, I, I WILL, I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS AND THE, THE REASONINGS AND CITATIONS HERE.
AND FEEL FREE TO EMAIL US IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAPPY TO MM-HMM
BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE RAN INTO SOME HICCUPS WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCES.
THESE GUYS WERE NEWER AND DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE WHY BEHIND SOME OF THE CHANGES THAT WE MADE.
TRY TO MODERNIZE IT EVEN FURTHER THAN IT WAS BEFORE.
SO THE NECESSARY AND MORE CHANGES ARE YET TO COME.
MORE CHANGES ARE COME, YEAH, THIS IS, YOU CAN'T FINISH BEFORE IT'S TIME TO START AGAIN.
UM, ONE OTHER, SORRY, ONE OTHER QUESTIONS SAID, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT HOW TO FIND IT TURN AROUND MYSELF, UM, WITH REMOVING, UM, EIGHT 60 F WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ENCOURAGING INNOVATIVE DEVELOPMENT.
UM, I UNDERSTAND WHERE THAT YOUR SUGGESTION IS TO REPLACE THAT WITH SOMETHING MORE OBJECTIVE MM-HMM
[00:20:01]
WOULD IT NOT BE ALSO HELPFUL OR, UM, YOU KNOW, ENCOURAGE OR PUSH DEVELOPERS TO BE INNOVATIVE TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS SPECIFICALLY SOMETHING THAT WE'RE STATING THAT WE WANT YOU TO DO.UH, YOU KNOW, BRING US SOMETHING THAT IS ESSENTIALLY IMPRESSIVE IN THIS INNOVATIVE WAY.
UM, IF IT'S, WHAT I GET CONCERNED ABOUT AT TIMES, I SUPPOSE IS IF WE'RE JUST ON SOMETHING THAT IS OBJECTIVE THEN AND DON'T ALLOW FOR A SUBJECTIVE LINE, THEN PEOPLE CAN GO TO THE, JUST THE BARE MINIMUM AND SAY, OH, WELL WE, WE MATCHED WHAT EXACTLY WHAT YOUR WORDING IS AND NOW WHAT, AND WE COULDN'T PUSH THEM PAST THAT OR HAVE YOU FOUND IN OTHER ORDINANCES THAT THAT DOESN'T, THAT, I DON'T KNOW.
I'M JUST HAVING WISHFUL THINKING.
NO, NO, IT, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND.
AND, UM, UH, I, UM, IN READING THAT SECTION, I COULD DEFINITELY SEE KIND OF WHAT, UM, LIKE THE INTENT WAS OF USING THE WORD INNOVATIVE.
AND I THINK YOU CAN STILL KIND OF CAPTURE THAT BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY WHAT THIS CODE, UM, SECTION IS, IS SAYING IS LIKE, UM, IT'S, IT'S ASKING THE DEVELOPER TO PROVIDE MORE INFORMATION.
UM, AND THEN IF YOU CAN PROVIDE THIS INFORMATION AND THEN ALSO DEVELOP ON THE PROPERTY IN A WAY THAT WILL, UM, BE, UM, NOT BE DAMAGING THE LAND OR CAUSING, UM, ISSUE TO PEOPLE, A DEVELOPER CAN STILL BE INNOVATIVE EVEN IF THEY HAVE LIKE A VERY TOPOGRAPHICAL PIECE OF PROPERTY.
UM, IT'S JUST THAT THEY HAVE, THEY JUST HAVE TO LIKE PROVE THAT THEY CAN DO IT, ESSENTIALLY.
THAT'S JUST KIND OF WHAT, WHAT THIS IS SAYING.
UM, AND SO THIS, THIS KIND OF LIKE ENSURES THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THEIR VERSION OF INNOVATION IS LIKE, WON'T HURT ANYONE, UM, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TERM INNOVATIVE IS, IT'S A GOOD TERM, IT'S JUST THAT IT'S, IT'S VERY AMBIGUOUS.
AND WE GOT ATTACKED ON INNOVATIVE ON ANOTHER THING, EVEN THOUGH IT HAD MINIMUM STANDARDS.
AND ONCE YOU PUT INNOVATIVE, THEY THOUGHT SOMEHOW IT WAS BEING CHEATED.
I JUST USING THE TERM INNOVATIVE.
SO OUR, UH, REVIEW OF THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, UM, WENT RATHER EFFICIENTLY.
UH, SO WE WERE ASKED TO KIND OF USE THE, THE REMAINING FUNDS TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT, UH, IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, AND THE STATED GOAL WAS TO REALLY, YOU KNOW, RECOMMEND CHANGES THAT WILL HELP THE DEVELOPABILITY OF THESE PROPERTIES AND, UH, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY INCENTIVIZE SOME LIKE NEW BUILDINGS THAT SORT OF ENHANCE THE, THE CHARACTER OF THE, OF THE AREA.
UM, OUR, UH, SORT OF ENVISIONED DELIVERABLE FOR LIKE WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE IS SORT OF A MEMO THAT AUDITS ALL OF THE RELEVANT CODE SECTIONS AND RECOMMENDS CHANGES.
UM, BECAUSE AS WE THINK ABOUT THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR AND LIKE WHAT WE LIKE OR, OR DON'T LIKE ABOUT IT, UM, WE THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, WE, WE'VE ALREADY STARTED LIKE THINKING THROUGH THIS AND LIKE WHAT IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE.
UM, AND HAVING JUST LOOKED AT THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND RECOMMENDED CHANGES FOR THE C ONE AND C TWO DISTRICT, UH, WE FEEL THAT ONCE ADOPTED, IT WILL ALLOW FOR A LOT OF THE CHANGE THAT, UH, MAYBE IS ALREADY SORT OF HOPED FOR IN THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR.
ASIDE FROM THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR OVERLAYS, UH, DESIGN STANDARDS, THINGS LIKE SETBACKS OR HEIGHT LIMITS OR THOSE SORTS OF THINGS CAN BEGIN TO LIKE, UH, REALLY INCENTIVIZE SORT OF THE CHANGE, UH, THROUGH THIS.
WHEN YOU SAY HAVING LOOKED AT THE ONES THAT WE JUST WENT THROUGH HERE RECENTLY, OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YES.
SO, AS I SAID, THINGS LIKE THE SETBACKS, UM, HEIGHT LIMITS OR MIXED USES, UH, WILL LEAD TO SITE DESIGN THAT IS HOPEFULLY MORE CONDUCIVE TO WALKABILITY AND MORE OF THE SORT OF CHARACTER OF OTHER, YOU KNOW, THE, THE DOWNTOWN MAIN STREET AREA IN SOME OF THESE, UH, ENTRANCE CORRIDOR AREAS.
UM, WE'RE ALSO REQUESTED TO LOOK AT, UH, EXPANDING THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT TO INCLUDE SOUTH STREET.
UM, AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT, UH, ALSO, YOU KNOW, BEGIN BEGINNING TO LOOK AT HOW THE UNDERLYING DISTRICTS CHANGE OR THE OVERLAY DISTRICT ITSELF CHANGES BEGIN TO SAY, OH, WELL ACTUALLY THE SITE DESIGN IS BEING AFFECTED A LOT BY THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
AND SO IF WE BEGIN TO AUDIT THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS AND WE BEGIN TO LOOK AT AREAS SORT OF MORE OUTSIDE OF THE EXISTING ENTRANCE QUARTER OVERLAY,
[00:25:01]
YOU CAN SEE THE PROJECT STARTS TO EXPAND AND SOUND LIKE SOMETHING ELSE INSTEAD OF JUST BEING ABOUT ENHANCING THE DEVELOPABILITY OF THE ENTRANCE QUARTER OVERLAY.UM, IN MANY WAYS, A LOT OF THE EXISTING BUILDINGS, I THINK ALREADY KIND OF ADHERE TO THE EXISTING ENTRANCE CORRIDOR OVERLAY.
UM, SO WE FEEL THAT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AS MUCH AS MAYBE A HANDFUL OF CHANGES AT THE SAME TIME IN THE MEMO, WE WANNA LOOK AT LIKE MAYBE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, WE CAN RECOMMEND DOING MORE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AROUND THIS BECAUSE SOMETHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, MESSING WITH THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS OBVIOUSLY IS SOMETHING THAT COULD BE A VERY SIMPLE PROCESS THAT PEOPLE ARE IN AGREEMENT WITH.
LIKE, WE REQUIRE WAY TOO MUCH PARKING, OR IT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT BECOMES VERY, YOU KNOW, UH, HEAVILY DEBATED IN THE COMMUNITY.
SO, UH, WHAT WE'RE KIND OF LOOKING FOR IS, WE DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE THE LIKE, EXACT ANSWER WITH WHAT YOU KNOW WE'RE GONNA DO, UM, BUT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS SORT OF YOUR GUYS LIKE BUY-IN AND INITIAL SORT OF THOUGHTS AROUND THIS MEMO AND AROUND THESE CHANGES, UM, AS THEY RELATE TO THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR OVERLAY.
UH, IF THAT PAINTS A PICTURE OF WHAT WE'RE THINKING, WHAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT, DOES THIS INCLUDE HOW, HOW THE ACT THE BUILDINGS ACTUALLY LOOK? YEAH.
SO WE'RE, THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR OVERLAY, UH, COULD BE TIED TO A DESIGN GUIDELINES DOCUMENT THAT ADHERES TO ONE PARTICULAR AESTHETIC OR STYLE OR MIXER.
UM, I FOUND THAT THEY'RE NOT, UH, TYPICALLY AS CONDUCIVE AS YOU'D THINK TO LIKE QUICKLY REDEVELOPING A CORRIDOR.
UM, AND OFTEN IF THE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WELL, I'VE GOT GREAT TENANTS AND I DON'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING, SO I'LL JUST SIT ON IT AND DO NOTHING.
UH, THAT DOESN'T EXACTLY MEET THE, LIKE, DESIRE TO CHANGE THE CORRIDOR TOO AND TO MAKE IT MAYBE MORE WALKABLE.
UM, SO IT'S NOT, WE'RE, WE'RE STILL THINKING THROUGH IT, BUT IT'S, UH, WE DON'T EXACTLY HAVE THE RESOURCES TO LIKE PRODUCE A DESIGN GUIDELINES DOCUMENT.
UH, BUT WE, YOU KNOW, CAN ALSO RECOMMEND LIKE, WHAT WE THINK WILL BE THE MOST EFFECTIVE, UH, WAY TO ADDRESS DESIGN BECAUSE THE DESIGN IS LIKE NOT JUST THE AESTHETIC STYLE OF THE CORRIDOR, IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE FORM OF THE DEVELOPMENT, HOW FAR IT'S SET BACK FROM THE STREET, UM, HOW THE BUILDING, YOU KNOW, ADDRESSES THE, WITH HOW IT'S GROUND FLOOR ADDRESSES, THE, YOU KNOW, STREET SCAPE, UM, OR IF, YOU KNOW, THREE FORCE OF THE PARCELS REQUIRED TO BE PARKING, OBVIOUSLY THAT, YOU KNOW, SPACES EVERYTHING OUT AND SETS IT OFF, UH, APART FROM EACH OTHER.
SO AM I UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY THAT THE PART OF THE GOAL OF THIS OVERLAY DISTRICT AND WHAT YOU'RE GUYS ARE SUGGESTING WITHIN IT, UM, IS TO ENCOURAGE MORE QUICK PACE CHANGE? UH, YES.
I MEAN, I'M, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE, THERE NEEDS TO BE DEVELOPMENT AND, AND GROWTH, BUT YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THINGS THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A, A DESIGN ASPECT TO IT AND YOU KNOW, ONLY LOOKING AT OR HAVING, YOU KNOW, A REALLY HEAVY, UM, EMPHASIS ON WALKABILITY, WHICH CAN BE GREAT, BUT, YOU KNOW, THEN DOESN'T THAT NOT RUN THE RISK OF MAKING OUR DOWNTOWN LOOK LIKE THE DOWNTOWNS OF, YOU KNOW, LIKE OF YOUR, YOUR LOUDOUN OF YOUR STERLING OF HERNDON, ASHBURN, FAIRFAX.
I MEAN THE, UH, HISTORIC STREET OR HISTORIC AREA OF, UM, OLD TOWN FAIRFAX, UM, IS A, IS A GREAT REDEVELOPMENT IN TERMS OF THAT WALKABILITY ACCESS TO DIFFERENT BUSINESSES AND EVERYTHING.
IT'S, IT IS A GREAT PLACE, BUT THAT DOESN'T BELONG HERE.
AND IF WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN HERE THAT'S GONNA BE PROTECTING THE CHARACTER OF THE TOWN, THEN WE'RE GONNA BE INTRODUCING SOMETHING THAT WOULD ALLOW BUT BE ENCOURAGING.
IN FACT, A, YOU KNOW, WHOLE SLEW OF DEVELOPMENTAL CHANGES THAT WITHIN A DECADE WOULD BE DRASTICALLY CHANGING THE CHARACTER.
I'M NOT, I MEAN, IT, UH, I GUESS I'M WORRIED ABOUT THERE BEING NO PROTECTIONS ABOUT WHAT'S ALREADY HERE, MAKING THINGS LOOK LIKE WHAT'S ALREADY HERE.
AND WE SAW THAT WITH THE BANK MM-HMM
THAT IT'S GETTING REDEVELOPED.
AND THE WAY THEY CAN DO THAT IS BECAUSE IT MATCHES THE GRAY THAT'S IN THE VERIZON BUILDING ACROSS THE STREET, AND THAT'S IN
[00:30:01]
THE RULES, YOU KNOW, MATCH THE COLORS THAT ARE IN THE SURROUNDING AREA AND WE'LL PICK THE ONE OTHER MODERN BUILDING AND THEN HAVE THEM TELL US THAT IT'S GONNA BE URBAN.UM, IT MAKES ME REALLY WORRIED TO HEAR, YOU KNOW, SO MAKES ME ENCOURAGING A LOT OF CHANGE AND THEN NOT, YOU KNOW, PROTECTIONS FOR THE CHARACTER.
SO GOING BACK FOR DESIGN STANDARDS IS REALLY WHAT YOU'RE SUBSET OF YEAH.
PRECEDENTS FOR DESIGN STANDARDS, WE CAN DEFINITELY INCLUDE LIKE IN THE MEMO MM-HMM
UH, IT'S JUST, WE WOULD LIKE, WE'RE NOT GONNA CREATE DESIGN.
AND IT IS NOT TO, WHEN I SAY LIKE, DEVELOP QUICKLY, IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT WE ARE LIKE, OH YES, THIS WILL HAPPEN IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.
IT'S TO SAY THE GOAL HERE ISN'T IN FAIRFAX, THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT? MM-HMM
LIKE THAT'S NOT THE INTENTION HERE.
THE INTENTION HERE IS THAT IN OUR, WHAT WE'RE CALLING OUR, OUR MAJOR ENTRANCE CORRIDOR, SO YOU'VE GOT SHENANDOAH AVENUE, NORTH ROYAL, SOUTH, ROYAL COMMERCE, SOUTH STREET, THESE ARE THE AREAS THAT ARE POTENTIALLY APPROPRIATE FOR MORE OF YOUR NATIONAL RETAILERS, SOME MORE CHAINS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND IT'S SETTING SOME, SOME STANDARDS LIKE FORM-BASED STANDARDS, BUT ALSO ENCOURAGING REDEVELOPMENT.
WE HAVE BUILDINGS THAT ARE JUST SITTING VACANT AND NOTHING'S HAPPENING.
PART OF THAT'S AN OWNER PROBLEM WHERE THEY'RE ASKING MORE THAN THE MARKET'S WILLING TO PAY.
BUT FROM A POLICY AND, AND, AND CODE STANDPOINT, I CAN'T FIX THAT.
UM, BUT WE ARE ALSO IN A COMMUNITY THAT IS VERY ANTI-TAX INCREASES AND THEY'RE ANTI A LOT OF THINGS THAT POTENTIALLY BRING SOME REVENUE IN HERE.
AND SOMETHING'S GOTTA GET, WE EITHER NEED TO START HAVING MORE COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT HERE 'CAUSE RESIDENTIAL'S NOT GONNA PAY THE BILLS.
WE CAN'T KEEP, THEY'RE NOT GONNA KEEP INCREASING TAXES, SO WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.
AT THE SAME TIME, THE ENTRANCE CORRIDORS ARE WHAT SET THE TONE FOR THE REST OF THE AREA.
AND IF, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA IS TO MAKE A SPACE WHERE YOU'RE HAVE ALL THESE MAJOR CHAINS IN RETAILERS, WOULD YOU MIND MUTING? CAN YOU MUTE YOUR MIC? COMMISSIONER MARNER? UM, WELL YOU CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THAT.
UM, IF EVERYTHING IS NATIONAL CHAINS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THEN THAT'S, YOU KNOW, CATEGORICALLY DIFFERENT, IS IT NOT? AND THAT WOULD BE SOMEWHAT OF A SWEEPING CHANGE.
IT'S, IT'S ONE THING TO HAVE YOUR CHANGE AND THEY SERVE AN IMPORTANT PURPOSE, BUT IF THE IDEA IS THIS IS A PLACE, THE ENTRANCE QUARTERS ARE ARE RIFE OR, OR NOT RIFE, UM, YOU KNOW, A GOOD SPOT TO HAVE A LOT OF THAT, I JUST, I DON'T SEE HOW THAT WOULDN'T CAUSE A SUBSTANTIAL CHARACTER CHANGE TO THE WHOLE AREA.
BUT THAT'S WHY I THINK IF WE PUT SOME DESIGN STANDARDS IN THERE, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT, LIKE PROTOTYPES MM-HMM
UM, THAT CAN FIT DIFFERENT DESIGN GUIDELINES.
I MEAN, THERE'S A, I DON'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THIS TOWN, IT'S DOWN TOWARDS LYNCHBURG, BUT THEY HAVE A FAMILY DOLLAR THAT LOOKS LIKE A SHALLOW, LIKE WHERE I'M FROM, WALMART LOOKS LIKE A CAPE, NOT WALMART, MCDONALD'S LOOKS LIKE A CAPE COD.
LIKE THERE ARE STANDARDS THAT WE CAN PUT IN PLACE MM-HMM
BUT WE ALSO, YOU KNOW, TOWN COUNCIL'S INVESTED A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY TOO IN HAVING A CONSULTANT RETAIL STRATEGIES WHOSE JOB IS TO BRING SOME OF THESE, THIS DEVELOPMENT HERE AND MM-HMM
SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TOO THAT WE HAVE STANDARDS SO IN PLACE SO THAT WHEN THEY COME HERE, IT'S, WE GET WHAT WE WANT.
AND I THINK YOU AND I ARE ON THE SAME PAGE ON THAT PART.
AND PART OF IT'S STREET SCAPING TOO.
IT'S NOT JUST HOW THE BUILDING LOOKS.
YOU MAY NOT EVEN SEE THE BUILDING WHILE YOU'RE COMING IN UNTIL YOU GO TO IT JUST STREET SCAPING ON THE WAY THERE.
THAT WOULD BE A PART OF THE CHALLENGE FOR YOU GUYS AND THAT MM-HMM
BUT LIKE PART OF THIS TOO, I THINK THAT OUR ORDINANCE, OUR SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE REQUIRES ABSOLUTELY WAY TOO MUCH PARKING.
AND THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE I THINK IF YOU JUST LET THE MARKET DICTATE, I MEAN, IF SOMEBODY'S GONNA HAVE A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS, I THINK PEOPLE ARE GONNA GO THERE IF THEY WANT TO MM-HMM
WHETHER THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, A HUNDRED PARKING SPACES WORTH 20.
UM, THAT'S LIKE WHEN WE HAD VENTS.
YOU 50 50
AND, AND SO I THINK IF WE LOOK AT THE PARKING CHANGES, SOME OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES MM-HMM
I MEAN, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE US BE ABLE TO EVEN THROW IN, UM, MAYBE SOME HIGHER DENSITY
[00:35:01]
LIKE BUYRIGHT RESIDENTIAL INTO LIKE AT THE, THIS DISTRICT TO ENCOURAGE SOME OF THEIR REDEVELOPMENT.UM, THAT WAY WE'RE NOT TOUCHING THE R ONE ZONES.
WE'RE NOT COMING AFTER SINGLE FAMILY ZONING, WHICH PEOPLE HERE SEEM TO FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT.
UM, AND THAT STILL ALLOWS US FOR GROWTH.
IT WOULD GIVE US DIVERSITY OF HOUSING TYPES.
IT HELPS WITH REDEVELOPMENT, BUT THAT'S GONNA HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, ALL THE DISCUSSION BECAUSE YEAH, THAT DISCUSSION, QUITE A DEEP DIVE INTO THE REALLY PARTICULARS OF EACH PROPERTY AND ADJOINING PROPERTY TO FIGURE, ESPECIALLY MAYBE CONSIDERING THE, UM, BUT THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, UPPING THE MINIMUM HEIGHT STANDARDS, I MEAN, WE CAN, THAT CAN POTENTIALLY ENCOURAGE SOME LOOKING AT THE SETBACKS AND THINKING THE, LIKE DOWNTOWN HERE, OUR BUILDINGS ARE PRETTY, THEY'RE SITTING RIGHT ON THE TIMELINE.
UM, YOU KNOW, PERMITTING THAT IN THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR WOULD GIVE YOU MORE OF THIS FEEL IN THOSE AREAS.
SO JUST ALONG WITH DESIGN STANDARD.
INTERESTING CONCEPT BE OF EACH DID TO HEAR WHAT YOU COME UP WITH.
UM, AND AS I SAID, WE, WE KNOW YOU'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH THE ZONING ORDINANCE CHANGES, UM, AND SO WE HAVE NOT REVIEWED YOUR CHANGES TO IT OR ANYTHING THUS FAR.
SO JUST WE WOULD REENGAGE WITH IT AND THEN MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS BASED ON, YOU KNOW, REEXAMINING THESE THINGS.
UM, AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, PARKING REQUIREMENTS, FOR INSTANCE, VERY NUANCED ISSUE THAT CAN BRING UP A LOT OF, UH, DEBATE.
SO WE JUST WANNA BE CLEAR THAT WE WERE LIKE RECOGNIZING THE NUANCES OF THIS, THAT THE FURTHER DISCUSSION MAY BE WARRANTED FOR ENGAGEMENT MIGHT BE WARRANTED.
UH, AND WE JUST WANNA PROVIDE YOU GUYS WITH SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN USE AS YOU WORK THROUGH IT.
ANYTHING ELSE? JUST WANNA PULL UP THE WHOLE ENTRANCE QUARTER.
IF YOU BE INTERESTING TO GO, THIS IS THEM TO GET THE, THE LAYER DEEP TO KNOW THE INFRASTRUCTURE, SUPPORTING ALL THAT, ALL THAT LAND THERE TO SEE WHAT IS POSSIBLE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S, WHAT'S UNDERGROUND AND, UM, THAT, THAT WOULD HELP SOME TOO.
THERE'S A LIMIT TO SCALE OF THE SIZE OF THE BUILDINGS HERE, JUST FROM A ENGINEERING SOIL BEDROCK STANDPOINT.
WE'RE NEVER GONNA HAVE SKYSCRAPERS HERE.
UM, BUT, UH, WHAT, WHEN I'VE TALKED WITH RETAIL STRATEGIES, UH, AND THIS IS A WHILE AGO, THE INPUT WAS, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PROPERTY OWNERS, SOME OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS HAVE BEEN A CHALLENGE.
UM, AND THEN LACK OF LIKE STOREFRONTS THAT ARE RIGHT ON THE STREET.
SO IN OUR SHOPPING CENTERS, THE PARKING IS TAKING UP THE, THE MOST NOTICEABLE AREAS OF IT.
AND THEN THEY DON'T WANT THEIR IN-LINES, UM, TUCKED AWAY.
THEY WANT IT RIGHT AT THE STREETS.
AS YOU'RE DRIVING, YOU SEE, AND YOU GO, OH, AND NOW YOU STOP AND YOU GO IN, NOT HAVE TO DRIVE THROUGH A SHOPPING CENTER TO SEE WHAT'S THERE.
SO IN A PERFECT WORLD, I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT HELPS ENCOURAGE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE TWO MAIN SHOPPING CENTERS THAT WE HAVE HERE.
AND IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT ANYTHING GOES, IT'S, YOU KNOW, SETTING THE RULES TO REFLECT WHAT YOU WANT IN THE COMMUNITY.
SO IF YOU CAN ADJUST THE RULES, THEN THAT'S ANOTHER TOOL YOU HAVE TO HELP THE PROCESS OF LAW.
AND THEY DID WARN THAT IF WE PUT IN TOO MANY OF THE DESIGN STANDARDS, LIKE HAVING TO USE ONLY MASONRY MATERIALS, LIKE, UM, THAT IF WE GO TOO FAR WITH IT, THAT THAT'LL DISCOURAGE A LOT OF THESE BUSINESSES.
THAT IF WE DICTATE TOO MUCH THE STYLE AND THE MATERIAL, THAT THEY WILL JUST POTENTIALLY JUST SAY IT'S NOT, NOT FINANCIALLY FEASIBLE.
WELL, BUT THERE HAS TO BE SOMEWHAT OF A, A MIDDLE GROUND TO IT WHERE BECAUSE EVERYBODY NOW WANTS, IS USING A LOT OF THE SAME TYPES OF MATERIALS THAT LOOK VERY URBAN.
AND I WOULD THINK THAT WE WOULD WANT TO NOT LOOK URBAN.
WHEN YOU SAY URBAN, WHAT DO YOU LIKE THE, WHEN IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE ENCOURAGEMENT IS TO USE PURELY NEUTRAL COLOR.
SO EVERYTHING IS BEIGE AND BROWN AND IT IS ALL THIS STUCCO TYPE OF LOOK IN AN AREA HERE WHERE WE DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT EXCEPT FOR THE THINGS THAT ARE BLATANTLY THE, YOU KNOW, SORT OF NEWER TYPE DEVELOPMENTS.
[00:40:01]
TO ENCOURAGE, YOU KNOW, MASONRY IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE THE MCDONALD'S LIKE WE HAVE HERE YEAH.YOU KNOW, BRICK LIKE WE HAVE HERE, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MCDONALD'S, IT LOOKS LIKE A CAPE COD THAT COSTS A LOT MORE THAN THE GRAY AND BROWN BOX THAT MCDONALD'S CURRENTLY IS.
BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE OKAY TO DISCOURAGE SOME BUSINESS IN THE INTEREST OF ENCOURAGING OTHERS WHO ACTUALLY GONNA APPRECIATE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DEVELOP AND, AND MAINTAIN.
ANYBODY TALK ABOUT, UM, FRACTURING IT A LITTLE BIT FOR THE, UM, DESIGN.
SO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR LOOK DIFFERENT THAN OTHERS COMING FROM THE ONE SIDE OF TOWN.
IT MAY LOOK DIFFERENT THAN IF YOU'RE COMING FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF TOWN.
I MEAN, DOES THAT MAKE IT MORE DEVELOPABLE AND STILL ACCEPTABLE? WELL, YOU'VE GOT SMALLER LOTS ON, WAS IT NORTH SHENANDOAH 14TH DOWN, UH, NORTH ROYAL.
UM, AND THEN SOUTH STREET YOU'VE GOT LARGER PARCELS.
BUT SOUTH STREET'S UNIQUE BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT THAT OLD RESIDENTIAL SECTION.
YOU KNOW, SO FROM HERE TO SOUTH STREET IS ONLY WHAT, FOUR BLOCKS AND ONLY WHAT TWO AND A HALF, THREE ARE PROTECTED IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, EVEN THOUGH ALL THE HOUSES WERE BUILT AT THE SAME TIME.
SO THAT SHORT STREET, UM, WHAT'S RUNNING PARALLEL TO SOUTH STREET, THAT FIRST BLOCK BACK, IT'S RESIDENTIAL, BUT IT'S ALL ZONED COMMERCIAL.
THAT'S WHAT YOU WOULD WANNA TARGET FOR FUTURE REDEVELOPMENT MENT, BUT IT WOULD REQUIRE SOMEBODY TO COME IN, BUY UP ALL THOSE HOUSES AND BE ABLE TO REDEVELOP A WHOLE BLOCK.
UM, BUT AS FAR AS THE ABSOLUTELY, BUT AS FAR AS DESIGN STANDARDS, THAT ROAD IS DIFFERENT THAN COMMERCE.
AND SO MAYBE WE DON'T WANT A DESIGN FOR EVERY SITUATION.
MAYBE IT'S BROKEN, FRAGMENTED A LITTLE BIT.
SO SOMETHING SO NORTH SHENANDOAH WOULD LOOK DIFFERENT THAN SOUTH STREET POTENTIALLY, BUT IT COULD STILL FIT THE CHARACTER OF THE TOWN WITH THE, WITHIN THE RANGE.
BUT THEY, BUT IT MIGHT BE EASIER TO DEVELOP, TO GET DIFFERENT STANDARDS LIKE SOUTH STREET I THINK WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE TO GO UP, WHEREAS YEAH.
YOU KNOW, IN THE ENTRANCE OR IN, YOU KNOW, COMING OVER THE BRIDGES, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'D WANT TO NO, YOU DON'T WANT GO ANY HIGHER THAN IT'S GOING DOWN.
YOU DON'T WANT ANYTHING BUILDING THERE THEN.
I'M VERY GLAD YOU SAID THAT 'CAUSE YOU TALKED ABOUT RAISING THE HEIGHT, THE BUILD, THE HEIGHT MAXIMUMS. THAT WAS THE FIRST THING I THOUGHT OF WENT, OH MAN, PLEASE
AND THEN THE HEIGHT, THIS IS SOMETHING TOO WE CAN RECOMMEND IN THE, THE MEMO IS LIKE DIFFERENT AREAS THAT WOULD BE IDEAL FOR A SMALL AREA PLAN TO GO FURTHER DOWN THAT DIRECTION.
SO, UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'LL, WE'LL LOOK AT AND THEN WE CAN MAYBE HELP TARGET SOME OF THESE AREAS SO THAT YOU CAN SORT OF SPLIT IT UP.
SO, BECAUSE WITH SOUTH STREET TOO, UM, THAT IS WHERE, UH, ONCE YOU HIT JAMESTOWN, WESTMINSTER, WHEN YOU'RE COMING INTO TOWN IN THE AFTERNOON, TRAFFIC JUST BACKS.
AND THAT IS IF WHEN WE START TALKING SMALL AREA PLANS, I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE STRETCH OF TOWN THAT WE
THE, THE COMMENT ABOUT, UH, THE COLORS IS I THINK THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT ACTUALLY DOES SAY TO USE BEIGE FOR LIKE COLORS TO AVOID, TO AVOID THE USE OF GARISH COLORS.
SO IT'S A BIT SUBJECTIVE AS TO WHAT IS GARISH, I THINK.
UM, SO THAT, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IT'S LIKE, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO HAVE DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT LIKE MEET EXACTLY WHAT EVERYBODY IS PICTURING AND EVERYONE'S PICTURE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
I, I DO LOVE HEARING THE COMMENTS ABOUT LIKE BRINGING, UM, DOWNTOWN FRONT ROYAL TO THESE LIKE, AREAS IN THE ENTRANCES OF THE TOWN BECAUSE I MEAN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE LIKE TO DO, UM, WITH ALL OF OUR PLANNING IS LIKE, IS WE, WE DO WORK WITH A LOT OF DIFFERENT TOWNS AROUND THE STATE THAT JUST HAVE LIKE YEAH.
LIKE HIGHWAY TYPE USES, LIKE ON THE OUTSKIRTS.
AND SO, UM, IT'S ALWAYS NICE TO HEAR WHEN PEOPLE WANNA BRING THE KIND OF DOWNTOWN LIKE, UM, MIXED USES AND LIKE STREETSCAPES, LIKE WHAT YOU WERE SAYING YEAH.
AND SO IT WOULD, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, COMING INTO TOWN, LIKE YOU'RE COMING TO WALMART AND SO ON, STREETSCAPING COULD WORK QUITE WELL AND WHEN, AND THAT COULD MEET THE, AND HAD THE LARGER COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS YOU GAVE UP THE PARKING IN THE FRONT, THE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS BEHIND THE STREETSCAPING AND THAT WOULD BE A REALLY NICE CORRIDOR.
BUT, AND IT, BUT THERE'S ALSO, IT FEELS LIKE THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DISCONNECT WITH LIKE WHEN PEOPLE SAY THEY WANT MORE OF THE DOWNTOWN AND THIS IS OUR CHARACTER AND THIS IS OUR CHARM, BUT THEN WHEN YOU SAY, WELL WE
[00:45:01]
GOTTA CUT SETBACKS, LIKE HAVE ZERO LOT SETBACKS ON THE SIDES AND THE REAR AND BRING EVERYTHING TO THE FRONT AND YOU KNOW, THE SCALE OF THE BUILDINGS AND MIXED USE, THAT'S WHEN PEOPLE START SAYING, OH, THIS IS LOUD.AND THIS IS FAIRFAX TOO, BUT IT'S NOT, OUR HISTORIC AREA IS VERY MUCH MIXED USE, HIGH DENSITY, FOUR TO SIX UNITS PER ACRE.
EVERY GOOD IDEA HAS, IT'S MORE CHARMING.
EVERY GOOD IDEA HAS TO BE SOLD OF COURSE.
PUTTING TOGETHER THAT, UM, THAT THAT PLAN TO SELL THE IDEA, WHICH IS ALWAYS HARD.
NO, THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH.
IS THAT, IS THAT THE, UH, ENTIRE THING FOR YOU MIKE? YEAH.
SO FOR THE WORK SESSION NEXT WEEK, UM, WE'LL JUST READ THROUGH THE DRAFT SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE AND FLAG ANY POTENTIAL TEXT CHANGES YOU WANNA MAKE.
I'D LIKE TO GET THIS TO PUBLIC HEARING IN MAY, UM, AND THEN GET IT TO COUNSEL BY JUNE.
UM, SPECIFICALLY THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
JUST THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE PART.
I'M SORRY, WHAT DO YOU WANT? DO WE NEED TO GET TIME TO TALK ABOUT IT? PUBLIC HEARING IN MAY? IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? COMPLIANCE MAY? YES.
WELL, PUBLIC HEARING, WE NEED A BILL THAT CAME OUT WITH MODULAR HOMES.
DOWN WAS THE LAST DAY OF APRIL.
BUT HOW DO WE GET SCHEDULE TO, THAT MAY, 'CAUSE THIS GOES INTO FACTUAL JULY ONE.
OKAY, SO NOW THIS IS, UM, YOU'RE TALKING OKAY.
WE STILL HAVE, UM, THE ONE SECTION WE NEED TO FINISH IN THE CODE TWO OF THE, UM, I TWO AREA.
AND, UM, THERE STARTED PUTTING TOGETHER, UM, THIS ABOUT THE CHANGES HAD TO DO WITH MANUFACTURED HOMES OKAY.
AND PUTTING TOGETHER A BRIEFING ON THAT.
WE NEED TO WORK THAT INTO THE SCHEDULE SO WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION ON THAT.
SO FOR MAY, THE MAY WORK SESSION, DO YOU WANNA SEND THAT DOCUMENT TO CONNIE SO SHE CAN PUT IT IN YOUR PACKET? UM, I JUST, THIS IS PRELIMINARY.
I I NO, SOMEBODY, ARE WE READY TO TRY START DISCUSSING IT, YOU FEEL? UM, WELL I THINK WE HAVE TO BECAUSE WE'RE IN DIRECT THEN IT'S GOTTA GO IN THE PACKET.
EVEN CAN WE PUT IT IN AS JUST A PRELIMINARY DRAFT? YEAH.
OH, SURELY THIS WOULDN'T BE PER HEARING.
THIS WOULD BE FOR THE WORK SESSION SESSION.
I HAVE TO SEND THAT OUT FRIDAY, SO I I NEED IT BY FRIDAY.
IF YOU WANT TO THIS, PUT THE WATERMARK DRAFT ACROSS THE FRONT IF THERE'S SOMETHING.
MAY I KEEP THIS? YES, I ACTUALLY PRINTED THAT FOR YOU.
OKAY, SO WHAT IS, WHAT ARE WE CALLING THIS? UH, THIS IS THAT HP UH, BILL 6 55 WHERE IT HAD TO DO WITH THE MANUFACTURED HOMES.
6 55 YOU SAID? YEAH, AND, AND THE EFFECT ON OUR CODE.
BECAUSE OUR CODE COMPLETELY VIOLATES THAT.
WELL THAT'S, WE'LL GET INTO THE DISCUSSION.
SO, SO, UH, NEXT WEDNESDAY'S WORK SESSION IS NOT, WE'RE NOT DOING THE ZONING ORDINANCE CORRECT? WE'RE JUST DOING THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
SO WE'LL HAVE THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE AND THEN FOR THE ZONING WE'LL SAY HB 6 55 DISCUSSION AS A SEPARATE ITEM.
AND THEN DO YOU WANNA TRY FOR I TWO? WE COULD, WE COULD TRY.
YEAH, ACTUALLY I TOO SHORT NOW.
SO WE COULD PROBABLY FINISH IT UP THEN THAT WAY WE'RE DONE WITH THAT WHOLE SECTION AND THEN WE CAN DO THE DIVIDE UP FOR A REVIEW.
SO THERE'S THREE TO HB 6 55 SUBDIVISION, OR I CHOOSE IS NOT TO BE A BIG EFFORT.
I'LL, I'LL EMAIL THAT TO YOU TOMORROW.
WE, WE ARE CLOSED TOMORROW, BUT AS LONG AS THAT WAY I'LL HAVE IT FIRST THING FRIDAY.
AND IF I GET SOFT COPY TOO, AND I'LL LOOK THROUGH THIS AND I HAVE THINGS SAY I'LL GET BACK WITH YOU.
YEAH, NO, I APPRECIATE YOU NERVOUS, BUT I'M NO, NO, IT'S OKAY.
NO, THIS IS, THIS IS ALL PART OF GETTING EVERYONE MORE INVOLVED IN THE, THE DIFFERENT THINGS.
YEAH, NO, IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.
SEE, THE MAY MEETING WOULD BE MAY 20TH.
SO YOUR WORK SESSION IS MAY 6TH, WHICH IS NEXT WEEK.
[00:50:01]
ADVERTISEMENT NEEDS TO BE IN, RIGHT? IT HAS TO, IT HAS TO RUN.WE RUN IT THE FIRST TWO WEDNESDAYS.
THE TWO WEDNESDAYS PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC HEARING.
I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GOING OR I WOULD'VE, I WOULD'VE NUDGED YOU SOONER, BUT I DID NOT KNOW THAT WAS GOING TO PUBLIC HEARING.
WELL, YOU'D HAVE TO REVIEW THAT.
JUST, YOU KNOW, BRIEF, BRIEF THIS WORK SESSION WEDNESDAY.
THEY'VE GOT THIS NOW, SO NOW THEY'VE GOT, THEY GOT THIS LAST WEEK, SO IT'S BEEN ON OUR WEBSITE, SEND OUT TO EVERYBODY.
SO WHEN WE PUT IT IN THE PACKET.
I WILL HAVE GEORGE REVIEW AND MAKE SURE, OH, THERE HE'S, HE GIVES COMMENTS.
TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S IN LINE WITH, I GUESS IT'S STATE CODE NOW, RIGHT? YEAH.
WELL MAKE SURE THAT WE PROPERLY INCORPORATE INTO THE ZONING MAINTENANCE.
THIS IS NOT TRYING TO INCORPORATE, THIS IS BRIEFING BASICALLY NOW IT'S NOT THE CHANGES THAT SET.
IT'S NOT EVEN A PROPOSED CHANGE INFORMATION.
THIS IS JUST YOU EXPLAINING WHAT THEY DID.
BECAUSE YOU KNOW, ORIGINALLY WE HAD DECIDED THAT THE ONLY THING THAT WAS THAT, THAT MAY MEAN THE REGULAR MEETING WAS, UM, CONSENT TO ADVERTISE.
AND WE WERE GONNA HAVE IT HERE AND THEN GO RIGHT INTO DISCUSSING THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
SO WE WERE JUST GONNA DO CONSENT TO ADVERTISE, APPROVE MINUTES, AND THEN GO INTO WORK SESSION AND WE WERE GONNA HAVE THE MEETING HERE.
DO, DO, DO WE NEED TO, DO WE THINK ANYTHING OR, OR JUST CHANGE IT UP TO HOLD THE PUBLIC HEARING? THINK ABOUT IT.
I DON'T WANT TO RUSH IT, BUT I ALSO LIKE THIS, THIS NEEDS TO GET DONE RIGHT.
THIS, WE HAVE TOO MANY PROJECTS COMING.
I JUST WANNA, YOU KNOW, JUST MAKE SURE WE GET EVERYTHING LINED UP HOW YOU WANT IT AND EVERYBODY KNOWS, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL SEND OUT WHEN WE SEND OUT THE PACKET, WE'LL LET YOU KNOW FOR SURE.
BUT IF, BUT STILL GET ME THAT STUFF.
JUST, JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY, SO THAT BILL GOES INTO EFFECT JULY ONE.
IS IT A PROBLEM IF OUR CODE ISN'T CHANGED BY JULY ONE? WE DEFER TO STATE CODE IF WE DON'T HAVE IT CHANGED.
WE STILL HAVE TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE STATE CODE.
WE CAN'T, WE PLACED A REASONABLE TIMEFRAME.
I DON'T THINK THAT STATE WE LOOK, WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE IT GO THROUGH AND BE APPROVED BY EVERYBODY BY JULY ONE.
'CAUSE LIKE OUR, THERE ARE PARTS OF OUR SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE THAT WE'RE OPERATING UNDER NOW THAT AREN'T IN COMPLIANCE OKAY.
WITH LEGISLATION THAT WAS PASSED A YEAR OR TWO AGO.
WHICH IS WHY THEY WERE HERE TONIGHT.
WE'LL BE ABLE TO ENFORCE SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT IN COMPLIANCE.
WE'RE NOT, THAT WAS THEIR MAIN TASK WITH THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S IN COMPLIANCE WITH OKAY.
AND THAT WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING, SIGNING OFF ON THINGS THAT WE SHOULDN'T BE SIGNING OFF ON.
THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT, THAT TO IN ANYTHING ELSE YOU FEEL LIKE TO TALK ABOUT OR ANYTHING FROM YOU GUYS YOU'D LIKE TO COVER.
CONNIE, JOHN, ANYTHING YOU BRING UP.
THEN ARE YOU READY TO ADJOURN? MOTION.