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OKAY, WELL[Planning and Zoning Work Session on March 4, 2026.]
CALL TO ORDER THE, UM, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FOR MARCH 4TH, 2026 OF WORKING GROUP.AND WOULD YOU BE SO KIND AS A CALL? ROLE COMMISSIONER MARNER.
AND WHEN THE AGENDA IS NOT TOO EXCITING TONIGHT, I HOPE
DID YOU WANT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT? THIS IS JUST THE REPORT THAT, UM, STATE CODE REQUIRES THAT WE FURNISH EACH YEAR AND WE PUT IT ON THE WEBSITE.
SO, UM, I THINK IT'S THE LAST MEETING WE HAD TALKED ABOUT IT, BUT YOU GUYS DIDN'T ACTUALLY CERTIFY IT.
UM, YOU KNOW, AND THAT MEETING WAS, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A LOT.
SO I THINK, I THOUGHT IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO JUST BRING IT TO THE WORK SESSION SO THAT YOU GUYS COULD YEAH, I LIKE THAT.
IF YOU NEEDED TO TALK ABOUT IT, OR, UM, IF NOT, IF YOU'RE READY, WE CAN, UM, AT THE NEXT MEETING ON THE, THE 18TH, CERTIFY IT THEN CHAIRMAN NEIL WILL GO BEFORE COUNCIL IN MARCH.
NO, THE END OF THIS MONTH, SORRY.
END OF THIS MONTH, GETTING MY ENGAGEMENT 23RD.
AND WHAT I DID WITH THIS THING, I PUT TOGETHER SOME CHARTS AND I SENT YOU A COPY OF THEM MM-HMM
I WOULD LIKE TO SEND IT OUT TO EVERYBODY TO TAKE A LOOK AT TO SEE IF YOU LIKE WHAT I DID IN THE CHARTS AND, UM, THAT WOULD BE PRESENTED TO THE COUNCIL, IF THAT'S OKAY.
AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S TOO MUCH NOW, THE OTHER ONE WAS PLANNING COMMISSION BYLAWS THAT WAS BROUGHT, BROUGHT UP.
SORRY, WHAT WAS THAT? ARE YOU, SORRY TO INTERRUPT.
ARE YOU TREATING THAT AS CONSENT OF THE COMMISSION TO FORWARD IT ON TO COUNCIL? YES.
WELL, IF YOU'RE DOING THAT AT THE REGULAR MEETING, OR, OR YOU CAN DO IT HERE.
YOU GUYS WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THAT DECISION THEN.
SO, SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO BRING THIS TO OUR NEXT MEETING BY 29, RIGHT? IT WOULD JUST BE, IT WOULD JUST BE, YEAH.
SO WE JUST TAKE A MOTION AND GO FOR IT.
THEN WE WILL TAKE A MOTION TO, WOULD SOMEONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION? I GUESS I SHOULD OBJECT.
QUESTION TO, UM, MOVE FORWARD AND, UH, HAVE THE, UH, 2025 ANNUAL REPORT, UH, PRESENTED AS WRITTEN.
UM, GIVEN THAT THAT WAS JUST A MORE OR LESS A PROCEDURAL MATTER.
YEAH, I, I THINK IT'S FINE TO DO IT AT ORDER, ESSENTIALLY.
THE ONLY THING IS WITH THE CHARTS WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT THEM, UM, I WOULD RECOMMEND THE SYMBOL BE WATER MADE MORE OF A WATERMARK STYLE.
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW YOU CAN'T READ ANYTHING THAT'S WRITTEN.
ARE YOU USING IT ON TOP OF AN IPAD? YOU'RE USING READING IT ON AN IPAD, AREN'T YOU? YEAH.
WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE THIS WHEN I PULL.
IT WAS IN WITHIN MICROSOFT OFFICE.
OH, SO WHEN WE SEND LIKE THE STAFF REPORTS OR COPIES OF THE APPLICATIONS WHERE IT'S GOT THAT WATERMARK, DOES IT SHOW UP NORMALLY? IT'S FINE.
IF IT'S A PDF, IT WON'T DO THAT.
WELL THIS, BUT I ACTUALLY SENT YOU THE, OH, THE POWERPOINT.
SO I GET, UM, BUT I WANTED YOU TO BE ABLE TO EDIT IT, SO MM-HMM
BUT YEAH, I, I APPRECIATE THAT THOUGH.
BUT IF THERE'S ANY CONTENT DIFFERENT, PLEASE LET ME KNOW THAT YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE.
AND I'M GONNA SEND THE REST OF YOU GUYS, AND IF YOU DON'T MIND LOOKING AT, UM, GO, GOING TO THE BYLAWS.
UH, THERE WAS A COUPLE THINGS I WAS CURIOUS.
THEY ARE, I THINK THEY'RE A LITTLE OUTTA DATE.
UM, DOES ANYBODY, WELL, I'LL START.
UM, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON BYLAWS? NOT REALLY.
WHAT IS THAT YOU SAW? MAYBE I JUST, UH, IT TALKS ABOUT, THERE'S THE REVIEW OF THE SUBDIVISIONS PORTION IN THERE THAT'S BEEN REMOVED FOR US, AND THAT PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE TAKEN OUT THE BYLAW MM-HMM
AND THERE ANOTHER THING, IT TALKS ABOUT INDIVIDUAL COMMISSION MEMBERS MAY PARTICIPATE IN MEETINGS REMOTELY BY ELECTRONIC MEANS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RULES AND PROCEDURES AND BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
AND YOU CO IT REFERENCES YOU BACK TO THE TOWN COUNCIL RULES.
SO IT ALLOW, AND LOOKING AT THE STATE, GOING BACK TO THE STATE STUFF, IT SEEMS WE ARE ALLOWED TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO COME, UM, REMOTELY FOR CERTAIN SETS OF CONDITIONS, YOU KNOW, ILLNESSES, SICKNESSES, OH.
AND SO ON, AS REFERENCED TO, BUT WE HAVE NOT BEEN ALLOWING OURSELVES TO DO THAT.
AND THE QUESTION WAS, WHY HAVE WE BEEN ALLOWING OURSELVES TO DO THAT? IT'S IN YOUR BYLAWS, RIGHT?
SO, BUT NO, WE, WE TALKED ABOUT IT BEFORE AND WE ALL SAID, NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
AND WE HAVE REPEAT, UH, RECENTLY AND REPEATEDLY VETTED TOWN CODE MM-HMM
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UNDER FOIA, THE OPEN MEETING LAW OF FOIA.SO THE POINT OF THAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS TOWN CODE'S GOOD.
AND, AND SO, AND WE, WE STAY ON TOP OF THAT.
SO IN, IN THE FUTURE, THE SAME CONDITIONS THAT APPLY TO TOWN COUNCIL COULD APPLY TO US AS FAR AS REMOTE PARTICIPATION.
AND SO IF, IF YOU HAVE A ILL, YOU KNOW, A ILLNESS OR SOME, SOME, SOME EXTRAORDINARY THING THAT YOU COULD PARTICIPATE REMOTELY AND LIKE I SAID, WE HAVEN'T, SO.
OH, I PUT A BUNCH OF THINGS IN HERE ABOUT, I THOUGHT, I THOUGHT SOMEONE'S GONNA ARGUE ABOUT IT, BUT I'M, I'M DISAPPOINTED I CAN START ANYWAY.
ANYBODY ELSE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE PLANNING, UM, COMMISSION BYLAWS? SO, SO, SO THOSE CHANGES, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO REMOVE THAT ONE PARAGRAPH OUT THERE? YEAH.
UM, WHICH I WISH IT WASN'T BEING REMOVED, QUITE FRANKLY, BUT THAT'S THE WAY THE STATE CHANGED IT.
SO, WHICH THE SUBDIVISION, THE SUBDIVISION ABOUT THE, IT'S, UH, OBJECTIVES TO BE IN THE BYLAWS.
ALRIGHT, SO WE ARE REVIEW AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON ALL AMENDMENTS TO ZONING THAT PROFFER PROPOSALS.
AND THEN NUMBER FOUR, SUBDIVISIONS AS PRESCRIBED BY THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
IF IT'S, IF IT IS THAT I WOULD ACTUALLY THINK WE COULD TECHNICALLY KEEP IT IN, UM, IN CASE THE STATE CHANGES THEIR MIND LATER, WE DON'T HAVE TO THEN TRY AND PUT IT BACK.
BUT IT SAYS, AS PRESCRIBED BY THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
AND A SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE SAYS, DON'T DO IT.
THEN YOU DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.
AND THEN IF THE STATE CHANGES THEIR MIND, WE CAN GO, OH, LOOK, IT'S BEEN IN OUR LOG THIS WHOLE TIME.
WELL, THAT, IF THAT'S HOW, THAT'S HOW YOU EVERYONE READS THAT, PROVIDE FLEXIBILITY FOR THEM.
HOW DO THEY WORD IT SO THAT IF STATE CODE CHANGES, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK.
AND THEN THE BYLAWS, SORRY, I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING TO CON OH, UM, RESTATE IT.
WHAT, WHAT STATE ONE THE WAY, HOW WE INTERPRET THIS ABOUT WE WERE REMOVED FROM THE MAJOR SUBDIVISION ORDINANCES, RE REVIEWING THEM.
AND THE WORDING, AS I SEE IT IN HERE, IS SAYING THAT THAT'S PART OF OUR RESPONSIBILITY.
OR I'M NOT, I'M WONDERING WHY THE BYLAWS ARE THAT SPECIFIC, BUT YEAH.
REVIEW AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON SUBDIVISIONS AS PRESCRIBED BY THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
BUT WE'LL NEVER REVIEW AND MAKE ON SUBDIVISION.
THAT'S SO THE COMMISSION'S TASKS ARE DEFINED BY STATE LAW.
SO, SO WE NEED TO REMOVE THAT SENTENCE OUT OF THERE.
WELL, DO YOU HAVE THE PRINTED BYLAWS? I DO.
IN THAT REMOTE SECTION, IT LOOKS LIKE IT DOES SAY THAT YOU CAN MM-HMM
IS THAT WRONG? NO, THAT'S, THAT, THAT'S WHAT WE AGREED.
I THOUGHT IT'S JUST BEFORE VERBALLY.
WE'VE BEEN SAYING WE, I WAS THINKING IN THE BYLAWS IT SAID YOU COULDN'T, SO THEY'RE FINE.
IT'S HOW WE'VE, HOW WE'VE BEEN ACTING HAS NOT BEEN CORRECT.
SO THE BYLAWS SHOULD SIMPLY RECITE STATE LAW AS FAR AS THE COMMISSION'S HOURS.
IS THAT SENTENCE STILL OKAY? THAT'S ALL I WANT TO, I I THINK IT CAN STAY IN THERE FOR NOW.
BECAUSE THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE HASN'T BEEN AMENDED.
IT JUST, IT JUST STUCK OUT WHEN I WAS READING IT, SO.
I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE THAT SPECIFIC THOUGH.
WHY CAN'T WE JUST REFERENCE THE STATE CODE SECTION THAT LISTS YOUR DUTIES AS PLANNING COMMISSION? WELL, THAT'S FINE.
AND HOW WOULD I SIMPLIFY IT? AND THEN I'LL SEND IT TO YOU.
NOW WE'RE INTO THE ZONING, UH, ORDINANCE.
WE HAVE I ONE, I TWO AND DISTRICT AND ARTICLE EIGHT IS WHAT WE WERE BRINGING UP.
UH, JUST JUST START A LITTLE BIT.
I SENT OUT, I WENT THROUGH THE, UM, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
I SENT YOU GUYS A BREAKDOWN OF ALL THOSE THINGS THAT SPECIFICALLY, AND I'LL SAY EMPIRICALLY OR, UH, REFERENCE THE INDUSTRIAL AREAS AND, AND TO HELP GUIDE WHAT OUR CHANGES SHOULD BE.
AND SO WENT THROUGH AND MADE A CUT AT, AT THAT.
I HAVE COPIES OF THAT IF ANYBODY WANTS.
WELL, I SENT YOU GUYS AN EMAIL IF YOU NEED.
YOU WANT ME TO PUT 'EM UP ON THE OH, YOU GOT,
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HAVE YOU HAVE DOWN HERE ABOUT TO ASK FOR ONE, LIKE WHAT HE SENT IN EMAIL THAT'S NOT UP THERE ON THE SCREEN.DO YOU USE THE ITEMS THAT, UM, DO YOU WANT ME TO BRING THAT UP? IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? NO, NO.
I SENT THIS OUT EARLIER FOR PEOPLE JUST KIND OF A GUIDE.
I JUST BROUGHT A FEW EXTRA COPIES GOING.
BUT REALLY IF WE JUST START SAYING, WE, WE KIND OF MADE A CUT AT THIS BEFORE WE GOT WRAPPED UP IN SOME THINGS.
AND SO THAT CAUSED GO BACK TO DO A REEVALUATION OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THEN PUT TOGETHER WHAT THE GUIDELINES ARE WE'RE WORKING WITHIN.
UH, AND SO THAT'S WHAT THAT, SO THIS IS, THESE ARE SUGGEST CHANGES OF THE COURSE AS WE GO THROUGH HERE.
WELCOME TO ACCEPT OR DENY OR DO WHATEVER WE NEED TO DO.
SO JUST WALK THROUGH 'EM, I GUESS LIKE WE NORMALLY DO.
WITH THE, UH, STATEMENT OF INTENT.
DOES IT LOOK LIKE ANYTHING IS INTENDED TO CHANGE THERE OR BE PROPOSED TO CHANGE THERE? YEAH.
ARE THERE ANY COMMENTS OR SUGGESTIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE? ARE WE GOOD WITH THE STATEMENT OF INTENT? I HAVE YOU MENTION, ARE WE KEEPING THE TERM MOBILE HOMES OR DID WE CHANGE THAT? THAT'S NOT IN THIS STATEMENT AT TIME.
UM, BUT YES, WE WOULD BE CHANGING THAT TO MANUFACTURED.
IT'S NOT IN THE STATEMENT OF INTENT.
WHAT AM I LOOKING FOR? IT SAYS YOU'RE LOOKING, YOU MIGHT BE LOOKING AT WHAT I SENT OUT.
THAT UP ON THE SCREEN IS MR. NEIL'S REWRITE.
AND I CAN PULL THE OTHER ONE UP IF YOU NEED IT.
BUT THIS IS, WE'RE LOOKING AT MR. I SENT IT TO YOU IN EMAIL.
LAST EMAIL I GOT, IT WAS THE ATTACHMENT THAT HAD THIS IN IT.
I CAN ALSO MAKE THE ONE UP UP HERE.
WHAT ARE YOU QUALIFYING AS ADVANCED MANUFACTURING? WELL, IT IS.
I'M JUST TRYING, I'M TRYING TO BE GENERAL, BUT NOT TOO, UM, IF YOU, IF YOU HAVE A BETTER WAY OF PUTTING IT THAT UM, I'M OPEN TO THAT.
WELL, NO, I'M JUST WONDERING WHAT, WHAT IS MEANT BY THAT.
THE STATEMENT OF SOMETHING THAT'S REFERENCED A LOT WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN AN AREA, SMALL SCALE AND ADVANCED MANUFACTURING.
WE'RE TRY TRYING TO GET, UM, HI, HIGHER END MANUFACTURING, SO TO SPEAK.
SO LIKE ROLEXES OR COMPUTERS OR WELL BE LIKE COMPUTERS AS OPPOSED TO, UM, UH, TRUCKS.
TRUCKS OR STAMPING OUT, NOT NECESSARILY TRUCKS.
UM, THIS IS PART OF OUR ORIGINAL WORDING.
SO NOW WE'RE WITHIN THE TOWN OF SMALL SCALE AND ADVANCED MANUFACTURING TECHNOLOGY.
WE COULD ACTUALLY TAKE OUT ADVANCED.
WELL IT, UM, SMALL SCALE, BUT WE NEED SOME OTHER WORD THERE.
UNLESS WE'RE ONLY LOOKING TO HAVE I ONE BE SMALL SCALE.
BUT ACTUALLY IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, LET ME JUST TAKE A MOMENT DOWN INTO THE PERMIT.
WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IN THE PERMITTED USES UHHUH
SO YEAH, JUST, JUST IN THESE PERMITTED, ONE OF THE THINGS GOING THROUGH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN RAN INTO, UM, WAS, UH, TRYING TO AVOID CREEP OF COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL INTO THE INDUSTRIAL AREAS.
'CAUSE THAT'S OUR INCOME GENERATING AREAS.
UH, SO WHEN, WHEN YOU SEE SOME OF THE THINGS IN THE WRITE-UPS IN HERE, THAT WAS THE PREMISE OF IT.
AND THAT'S WHEN THE COPY HAS A PLAN PUSHING US TOWARD THAT.
YOU MAY WANNA GO DOWN THE BUSINESS OFFICE THING.
UM, WHY WOULD WE TAKE OUT COMMUTER PARKING FACILITIES? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GENERATE THE, THE, AGAIN, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS TALK ABOUT INCOME GENERATING ID PLACES AND COMMUTER PARKING DOESN'T GENERATE INCOME.
IF WE ARE GONNA HAVE IT ALL, THEN I WOULD PUT IT IN THE, UM, SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
COULD GENERATING INCOME FOR THE LANDOWNER.
HUH? COULD GENERATING INCOME FOR THE LAND? WELL, WELL THIS IS, I UNDERSTAND
SO INDUSTRIAL OF COURSE IS THE, THE HEART OF THIS SECTION.
ARE WANTING COMMERCIAL USES THAT SUPPLEMENT THE SUPPLEMENT.
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IF, IF IF IT'S, IT HAS ANY COMMERCIAL USE SHOULD BE COMPLIMENTARY TO THE INDUSTRIAL INTENT.SO, AND TO LIKE, WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S IN THE COMP PLAN, WHAT'S TALKING ABOUT GROWTH SHOULD ALIGN WITH INFRASTRUCTURE CAPACITY.
AND, UM, WHAT WAS THE OTHER, IT SHOULD BE INTENDED FOR EMPLOYMENT GENERATING USES.
A AND I WERE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION LAST WEEK.
THIS I IDEA POPPED INTO MY HEAD.
IT'S LIKE, I FEEL LIKE THE THRESHOLD FOR WHAT INDUSTRIAL USES ARE APPROPRIATE VERSUS LIKE, WHAT, LIKE THE BUYRIGHT VERSUS WHAT NEEDS SPECIAL USE PERMIT MAY NEED TO BE RELATED TO THE IMPACT OF THAT USE.
SO LIKE, I THINK I WAS STRUGGLING A LITTLE BIT WITH THIS SECTION OF THE ORDINANCE BECAUSE IT FELT LIKE WE WERE LISTING OFF LIKE VERY SPECIFIC USES INSTEAD OF JUST TRYING TO MEASURE IT BY IMPACT.
BUT I STILL HAVEN'T COME TO LIKE A CONCLUSION AS TO HOW WE CAN, HOW WE DRAW THAT LINE.
AND THEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH COMMERCIAL USES ARE COMPATIBLE WITH INDUSTRIAL USES.
AND IT'S ALL DEPENDENT ON WHAT DECIDES TO COME HERE.
WHAT YEAH, WHAT VERSUS WHAT DOESN'T.
AND LIKE A GUY MAKING A COUPLE KITCHEN TABLES OR, YOU KNOW, JUST FURNITURE OUT OF A WORKSHOP.
YOU KNOW, HENDRICK IS LOT DIFFERENT THAN JACKSON FURNITURE COMPANY.
THERE MAYBE LIKE THE SCALE IS DIFFERENT, BUT THE USE IS GENERALLY THE SAME.
UM, AND I DON'T KNOW, I I KNOW I STRUGGLED WITH THIS.
NO, IT'S, BUT SO THE, THE WHOLE, I THE WHOLE PREMISE OF THAT THE LISA WAY IS DONE HERE.
THINGS, INDUSTRIALS, THE HEART MM-HMM
THEN, UM, EVERYTHING ELSE SHOULD BE SUPPLEMENTAL TO IT.
IT'S SOME SORT OF ANCILLARY THING THAT, UM, THAT MAY BE AN EXCEPTION.
PUT IT INTO THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT BECAUSE I LIKE SOME OF THESE.
WE WANNA ATTRACT, WE WANNA ATTRACT ALL LIKE THIS INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT.
WE WANT EMPLOYMENT HERE, BUT I WANT THERE TO BE SOME KIND OF MECHANISM THAT WHEN THEY COME IN WITHIN OUR CODE, THEY HAVE TO SUBMIT HOW MUCH WATER THEY'RE GONNA USE, LIKE UPFRONT BEFORE WE HAVE TO SUPPLY UTILITIES TO THEM.
AND ELECTRICITY AND LIKE ELECTRICITY, WATER, SEWER.
LIKE WHAT IS GONNA BE THE IMPACT OF THAT USE.
AT THE SAME TIME, I WOULD WANT US TO BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT REQUIRING TOO MUCH AND THE INTEREST OF PROTECTING LIKE YOUR SMALL BUSINESSES, RIGHT? LIKE IF THE GUY OF KENDRICK WANTED TO EXPAND AND DID GO INTO I TWO, THEN HAD TO SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, JUST DO THIS AND HE'S NOT GONNA DO IT.
AND THAT WOULD BE A DETRIMENT.
WELL, AND THEN I WAS TALKING TO SOME OF THE OTHER DIRECTORS, UM, LIKE FOR INTERVIEW SERVICES, HE WAS SAYING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SMALL AND MEDIUM.
AND THEY DON'T HAVE INDUSTRIAL, LIKE WE HAVE NO INDUSTRIAL USERS.
WE ONLY HAVE COMMERCIAL USERS IN TOWN.
IT WAS LIKE BETWEEN 400 AND 800.
WHAT ARE THEY AMPS HERE? UM, UH, I'M SURE IT'S MEGAWATTS.
MEGAWATTS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IT'S LIKE, THAT'S A, A MEDIUM USER.
MARTIN'S IS A LARGE CAPACITY 'CAUSE THEY USE LIKE 1200 MM-HMM
SO LIKE MARTIN'S IS LUMPED IN WITH THE HOSPITAL.
BUT I THINK IT'S LIKE THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME THRESHOLD, LIKE RIGHT.
THAT'S WHEN WE KICK THEM INTO NEEDING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT OR SOME KIND OF IMPACT STATEMENT.
THERE IS SOME WORDING ADDED IN HERE LATER ON ABOUT HIGH, UM, WATER USERS, HIGH ENERGY USERS AND SAY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE CHARGED AT A DIFFERENT RATE.
WE WILL GET TO IT LATER ON IN HERE.
THAT WAS ADDED IN THE GO ON PARTLY OF THAT.
BUT THE IDEA OF, WE'LL GET, I'LL TALK ABOUT THAT WHEN WE GET TO IT.
I HOPE I'M NOT POKING UP SLEEPING HORNETS NEST, JUST, THIS IS JUST FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES, BUT SOMETHING LIKE A DATA CENTER WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE IN THE INDUSTRIAL SECTION IN I I TWO.
AT LEAST THAT'S THE WAY THAT WE PROPOSED IT.
GOT I TWO IS A HIGHER INTENSITY.
USED FIVE ONE WOULD BE LIKE YOUR CABINET MAKERS OR, UM, THERE'S SOME, THEY'RE GETTING CALLS WITH THIS GUY THAT SELLS FIREARMS, BUT WE CAN'T LET HIM ASSEMBLE IT BECAUSE THAT'S MANUFACTURING UNDER OUR CODE.
SO HE CAN SELL THEM AT HIS STORE, BUT HE CAN'T ASSEMBLE 'EM.
UM, SO LIKE THIS IS LIKE INCLUDING ASSEMBLY AND YES.
IS ACTUALLY, THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
[00:20:01]
FIREARMS DON'T SEEM TO BE NOTED HERE AT ALL.UM, SO LIKE WITH THAT INSTANCE, WE, LIKE HE'S RETAIL 'CAUSE RIGHT.
BUT THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD BE RETAIL, BUT THAT WOULD STILL NOT PERMIT, UH, THE ASSEMBLY.
BUT, UM, AND SO LIKE IF HE LIVES IN THE COUNTY, HE HAS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FROM THE COUNTY TO ASSEMBLE THEM MM-HMM
BUT THEN WHEN HE COMES INTO TOWN TO SELL THEM AT HIS STORE, HE CAN'T OKAY, GOOD.
BUT IF HE WAS IN I ONE AND HE, WE WERE UNDER THIS ORDINANCE, HE ACTUALLY WOULD BE ABLE TO, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, LIGHT MANUFACTURING WOULD BE A LIGHT MANUFACTURING BECAUSE IT INCLUDE ASSEMBLY YEAH.
UNDER BY, BY WHAT WE'RE PUTTING HERE.
BUT LIKE, UH, ASSEMBLING THE FIREARMS PROBABLY WOULD BE APPLICABLE TO AN I ONE, BUT NOT AN I TWO.
WHICH IS A HEAVIER, INTENSE USE RIGHT NOW.
SO WE, SO WE SAY AGAIN HERE, ADVANCED AND HIGH TECH, BUT ADVANCED IS VERY SUBJECTIVE MM-HMM
AND YOU CAN HAVE, I CAN, I CAN IMAGINE IT MANUFACTURING IT IS ADVANCED, BUT LOW IMPACT.
AND AGAIN, IT GOES BACK TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
HOW, HOW DO WE QUANTIFY THIS? UM, WHAT IF WE WERE TO SAY LIKE MANUFACTURING BELOW X KILOWATTS OR X WATER USAGE, LIKE GALLONS PER DAY.
BUT THAT'S NOT TO THE FUNCTION, THAT'S TO THE, JUST TO THE USE.
AND THAT ISN'T REALLY THE INTENT OF THAT IS THIS IS THE INTENT OF THE TYPE OF INDUSTRY.
WELL, BUT I THINK THAT'S WHAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH IS TO ME IT, IT, IT'S LIKE WHAT THEY DO IN THERE.
IT'S LIKE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE LAW.
AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT, IF THEY'RE PROVIDING JOBS AND THERE'S, THEY'RE NOT OVERTAXING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.
I MEAN, IF WE WAREHOUSING AND WAREHOUSING, RIGHT.
DO WE CARE IF THEY'RE STORING PLAIN? SO LIKE, I MEAN, DO WE CARE WHETHER THEY'RE WAREHOUSING OR DO WE CARE? HOW MUCH WATER ARE YOU USING? HOW MUCH ELECTRICITY ARE YOU USING? HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE YOU EMPLOYING? BUT I, I'M STRUGGLING WITH, ON THE ONE HAND, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY WANT ANY TYPE OF THING TO GO INTO A BOX AS LONG AS THEY'RE ABLE TO MEET CERTAIN RIGHT.
ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU DON'T WANNA BE TOO RESTRICTIVE WITH IT.
I DO FEEL IF WE'RE TOO RESTRICTIVE THAT HAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, TECHNOLOGY CHANGES OR LIKE THERE'S USES THAT, THAT WE HAD LIKE A CALL CENTER IN ONE OF 'EM.
I MEAN, IT WOULD EMPLOY PEOPLE.
UM, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY CALL CENTERS DO WE HAVE HERE? LIKE WHAT IS THE MARKET? THEY'RE ALL OUTSOURCED.
SO OUR ORDINANCE HASN'T EVOLVED WITH USES OR LIKE WHEN WE HAVE DEVELOPERS THAT COME UP WITH AN IDEA THAT WORKS GREAT.
IT'S LIKE A BUSINESS MODEL, BUT THE USE DOESN'T EXIST IN OUR CODE.
SO IT'S LIKE, OKAY, NOW YOU'VE GOTTA WAIT FOR US TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE THE CODE WHERE YOU CAN START YOUR BUSINESS.
LIKE IT'S WALKING THAT LINE OF FLEXIBILITY VERSUS LIKE PROTECTING EVERYTHING SO THAT WE'RE NOT HINDERING NEW BUSINESS, NEW EMPLOYMENT, BUT BY NOT BEING TOO SPECIFIC.
WHAT IF, BECAUSE WE WANT, WE WANNA SORT OF THREAD THE NEEDLE, RIGHT? MM-HMM
WHICH IS, I MEAN, VERY DIFFICULT.
UM, BUT WHAT IF ABOVE ALL OF THIS, AND THIS WOULD BE A BIT OF A BREAK FROM HOW WE HAVE IT FORMATTED TYPICALLY, BUT HAVING A LINE IN HERE BEFORE WE GET INTO ALL THE REST OF THE STUFF BY RIGHT.
SAYING ALL LISTED USES BELOW ARE BY RIGHT.
IF THEIR ELECTRICITY USAGE WILL BE AT OR BELOW X KILOWATTS AND THEIR WATER USAGE WILL BE AT OR BELOW X GALLONS PER DAY.
AND THEN WE CAN BE AS SPECIFIC OR AS GENERAL AS WE WANT UNDERNEATH THAT BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE THAT STIPULATION.
WELL, IF, UM, IF WE'RE JUST GONNA DO THAT, LET ME, LET'S, WE NEED TO SCROLL DOWN FOR A MINUTE THEN.
THERE IS, LET ME FIND, WHAT WOULD YOU THINK OF THAT AS WELL, JUST ON THE SURFACE? I AM, AM I MISSING, LIKE WHAT AM I MISSING? I FEEL LIKE I'M MISSING SOMETHING.
THAT'S, THAT'S WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THIS IS WHERE OH, A BUNCH OF PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.
IT HAD NO PERFORMANCE STANDARDS IN I ONE, RIGHT BEFORE IT DID HAVE AN I TWO, BUT NOT I ONE.
[00:25:02]
HIGH DEMAND UTILITY USERS.HIGH DEMAND UTILITY USERS IS, UM, SO THAT'S HOW I WAS TRYING TO ADDRESS THAT, WHAT YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT.
HOW DOES THE TOWN'S DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC UTILITIES DEFINE HIGH? PARDON? HOW DOES THE TOWN'S DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC UTILITIES DEFINE HIGH DOLLARS? HIGH VOLUMES BY, BY THE AMOUNT OF USE.
THE KILOWATTS USE KILOWATT OR GALLONS USED WATER.
SO THEY'VE GOT LOW USE, MEDIUM USE AND HIGH USE.
OH, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS.
THAT'S HOW I WAS TRYING TO ADDRESS IT.
THAT'S HOW I WAS TRYING TO ADDRESS IT.
I, UM, I THINK THAT WE OUGHT BE MORE, MORE SPECIFIC ON HIGH VOLUMES.
THEY PROBABLY HAVE, THEY PROBABLY HAVE A NAME FOR THEIR DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.
WELL, IT SAYS HERE, THE TOWN SHALL ESTABLISH CONSUMPTION THRESHOLDS, IDENTIFYING QUOTE, HIGH DEMAND USERS.
SO, UM, IF I'M READING THIS RIGHT, IT'S SAYING WE DON'T HAVE THOSE RIGHT NOW, BUT THE TOWN SHOULD ESTABLISH THEM AND THEY CAN CHANGE THEM.
AND CAN WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TELL THE TOWN TO DO THAT? I MEAN, WE'RE THE ONES, WE'RE NOT TELLING YOU TO DO ANYTHING.
THEY ALREADY HAVEOR THEY ALREADY HAVE THEM.
I DON'T THINK WE WANT, ME PERSONALLY, I DON'T THINK WE WANT TRY TO PUT THOSE NUMBERS IN HERE.
NO, I DON'T WANNA PUT THE NUMBERS IN.
YEAH, SO THEY, THEY DO HAVE, THEY, THEY DID A BRIEFING.
I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT HIGH VOLUME IS NOT A SUBJECTIVE TERM AND THAT CANNOT BE ACCUSED OF BEING A SUBJECTIVE TERM.
WHICH IS WHY I'M TRYING TO GET AT, DO THEY HAVE A TERM, WHICH CATEGORY THAT WE CAN? UH, I, I DON'T RECALL.
DO YOU RECALL IN THE BRIEFING THE POWER PEOPLE DID? WHAT CAT, WHAT THEY CALLED EACH CATEGORY OF USER? I THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE MEDIUM AND HIGH, RIGHT? OR ENERGY.
THE ONE THAT THEY DID ON? YEAH, THE ONE THEY DID ON ENERGY.
THEY HAD, THEY HAD CATEGORIES.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY, I DON'T THINK IT WAS THAT SIMPLE.
NO, THERE WAS DIFFERENT, THERE WERE DIFFERENT THRESHOLDS FOR THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY USED.
THEY HAD NAMES ASSOCIATED WITH, BUT WHATEVER THOSE NAMES ARE, WE SHOULD HAVE IT HERE SO THAT WE CAN'T BE ACCUSED OF BEING SUBJECTIVE OR, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE RAN INTO THAT PROBLEM A WEEK AGO.
ENERGY SERVICES CODE DEFINED, UM, SELF DIVISION, LIKE MINOR, THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN A MINOR AND MAJOR SUBDIVISION.
AND OURS IS EIGHT OR MORE, SORRY, MORE THAN EIGHT LOTS.
BUT IN THEIRS IT'S MORE THAN FIVE.
SO WE HAD AN EIGHT LOT SUBDIVISION AND WE'RE CALLING A MINOR, BUT IN THEIRS IT'S A MAJOR.
SO WHEN THEY GOT THE BILL FOR $4,500 A LOT START SERVICE UNDER MAJOR, THEY'RE LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? AND, BUT IT'S JUST TWO, IT'S DIFFERENCES IN THE CODE.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INDUSTRIAL USERS, AREN'T WE? YES.
JUST EXAMPLE, THE DIFFERENCE IN OUR CODE TERMINOLOGY, BUT NO, UM, OUR POWER DEPARTMENT CAME TO THE ONE MEETING SPECIFICALLY AND SAID THEY WERE ESTABLISHING THE CONVERSATION AT THAT TIME WAS DATA CENTERS.
BUT YOU KNOW, FOR THE HIGH ENERGY USERS, THEY WERE GONNA BUILD THEIR OWN CATEGORY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAD THEIR, THEY WERE CHARGED AS SUCH, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT HE CALLS THE INDUSTRIAL, BUT INDUSTRIAL SOMETHING.
AND I CAN GET CLARIFICATION FROM CARRIE.
ON THE NAMES, WHAT HE WANTS TO CALL IT.
THE CHAIRMAN WILL GIMME A SECOND.
PULLING IT, PULLING UP THE DRAFT, THE PROPOSED OKAY.
IT APPEARS THERE WERE FOUR CLASSES.
UM, RESIDENTIAL, UH, COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL.
UH, UH, COMMERCIAL IS PEAK DEMAND FOR LAST 12 BILLING CYCLES IS LESS THAN 25 KW.
THAT'S COMMERCIAL, RIGHT? YEAH.
AND THEN C CATEGORY C COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL HIGHER THAN 25 KW.
[00:30:02]
THEN CATEGORY D IS JUST MISCELLANEOUS ATHLETIC FIELDS.DID, DID THEY HAVE A, UM, COMMERCIAL PARKING? DID THEY HAVE A KILL A LOT WITH THAT AS WELL? WITH THE MISCELLANEOUS, UH, UH, SHALL NOT EXCEED 25 KW SHALL NOT EXCEED 25.
SO IT HAS STATE IN THE COMMERCIAL THAT'S IN THE SPECIAL CATEGORY OF OKAY.
ATHLETIC FIELDS, BALLPARKS, UH, SEPARATELY METERED COMMERCIAL PARKING, ET CETERA.
SO, SO HOW WOULD YOU PROPOSE TO INCORPORATE THAT IN HERE? LET'S SEE.
IT SEEMS LIKE THEY HAVE THREE CATEGORIES OF COMMERCIAL.
IT'S LUMPED, COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL TOGETHER.
THEY HAVE A COMMERCIAL AND THEY HAVE A COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL IS WHAT IT'S SAYING.
WHICH IS LESS THAN A 20, GREATER THAN 25 KW.
NOW AN, UH, A INDUSTRIAL USER POTENTIALLY COULD BE GETTING COMMERCIAL RATES IF THEY DON'T, IF THEY USE LESS THAN 25 KW.
BUT, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT IN HERE, IN HERE.
THE 25 KW, DON'T THEY? BUT WE CAN USE COMMERCIAL, COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL TO TERM.
BUT I MEAN TO THE POINT THAT THEY'RE DEFINING THOSE NOW, RIGHT? THEY'RE ESTABLISHING THOSE CLASSES, ESTABL THOSE CLASSES.
AND THIS IS SECTION, UH, CHAPTER 70, SECTION 23.
WHAT'S THE LIKELIHOOD OF THOSE CLASS NAMES CHANGING? SO WE HAVE TO KEEP UPDATING THIS ACCORDINGLY.
LIKE, I'M JUST WONDERING IF IT'S BETTER JUST TO LEAVE IT AS, I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
SEE THE TOWN DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC UTILITY.
BUT WHAT ABOUT IF WE SAID PROJECTED TO CONSUME MORE THAN 25 KILOWATT HOURS? WELL, NOT THEN WE'RE PUTTING THE NUMBER IN THERE.
WHICH THEY MAY, THEY MAY CHANGE AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE.
SO THIS SECTION IS ON COUNCIL'S, UH, AGENDA FOR PUBLIC HEARING END OF THE MONTH.
I WOULD SAY WE WAIT UNTIL THAT HAPPENS AND THEN WE JUST REFERENCE THAT ORDINANCE.
'CAUSE THEN IT'S, EVERYTHING'S THE SAME.
WE JUST REFERENCE THE ORDINANCE.
LEAVE THIS WORDING FOR HIGH DEMAND UTILITY USERS FOR NOW.
AND THEN JUST GO BACK AND REFERENCE THAT.
CAN YOU HIGHLIGHT IT SO WE KNOW? PARDON? CAN YOU HIGHLIGHT IT SO WE KNOW? IS THIS OUR SHARED DOCUMENT? THIS IS OUR SHARED DOCUMENT.
CAN YOU JUST LIKE HIGHLIGHT IT A DIFFERENT COLOR OR SOMETHING? OR PUT A NOTE? SURE.
DO YOU WANT ME TO JUST HIGHLIGHT THIS LINE? THE, THE, OKAY.
UM, SO YEAH, I CAN, I'LL HIGHLIGHT IT AND IT'LL BE YELLOW.
AND WE'LL WE CAN CIRCLE BACK TO IT.
WITH GO BACK TO WHERE WE WERE ANYWAY.
CAN I, BECAUSE THAT DISCUSSION ON POWER, UM, I, I WAS THINKING ABOUT WITH UNITS AND MAKING ABOUT ANYBODY WHO MEETS THIS, THESE, THESE USES ARE BY, RIGHT? MM-HMM
LIKE THAT'S NOT CLEAR FROM HERE.
RIGHT? FROM THIS SECTION WHERE, FROM THIS, FROM THE, FROM WHICH SECTION? FROM THE 16 POINT.
WELL, THAT'S 'CAUSE IT'S FAR BELOW WHERE THE BY RIGHT.
SO THE, THAT THE STUFF BY RIGHT.
WOULD THEN BE BORDERED AND KEPT, KEPT WITHIN WHAT'S LISTED IN THIS SECTION.
SO THEY WOULD, IT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THOSE CONDITIONS.
SO, SO WE JUST PULL THE THREAD.
SO I, I THINK WHAT LAUREN'S TRYING TO GET HERE, INSTEAD OF LISTING ALL THESE NAMES, ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS MM-HMM
HAVE SOME WAY OF DOING AN INTENT.
THAT'S WHERE ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE, UM, JUST PULLING THIS THREAD, THERE'S A DEFINITION.
UH, YOU MIND SWITCHING AROUND A LITTLE BIT? SURE.
YOU KNOW, UH, UH, HIDE THIS FOR A MINUTE AND BRING UP DEFINITIONS.
OH, IS THAT ANOTHER DOCUMENT YOU HAVE ON THERE? THAT'S ANOTHER DOCUMENT IN HERE.
YOU CAN JUST, YEAH, IT'S THERE.
UH, WHEN WE WERE PULLING THE THREAD, I'M TRYING TO THINK THROUGH THIS IS WHAT IS LIGHT, WHAT IS MEDIUM AND WHAT IS HEAVY IF BY JUST GOING THOSE THREE CATEGORIES INSTEAD OF LISTING ALL THESE USES.
AND SO THAT'S WHEN THIS CONVERSATION WAS GOING ON.
THAT'S, WE'LL PUT THIS TOGETHER, UH, UH, WITH, WITH THAT THOUGHT PROCESS OF WHERE, WHERE TO GO WITH THIS.
THE, THE THING THAT I WAS STRUGGLING WITH BY USING JUST THIS WAS YOU HAVE, WE HAVE TWO CATEGORIES NOW OF INDUSTRIAL, NOT THREE.
SO WE WOULD HAVE A CROSSOVER SOMEWHERE.
MEDIUM WOULD FIT IN ONE AND NOT THE OTHER.
SO TO BREAK THAT OUT, HOW DO YOU DETERMINE THRESHOLD? I WOULD THINK YOU JUST VENN DIAGRAM IT, RIGHT? I ONE WOULD ALLOW LIGHT INDUSTRIAL BY RIGHT MEDIUM BY SPECIAL USE.
I TWO WOULD ALLOW FOR MEDIUM BY
[00:35:01]
RIGHT.EVEN IN WHAT WE CURRENTLY CALL I TWO HEAVY, IT'S NOT, NOT NECESSARILY AN SUP UNLESS I'M LOOKING AT THE WRONG, UH, THE WRONG ORIGINS.
BECAUSE THAT WAS KIND OF MY THOUGHT TOO.
I MEAN, IN A WAY THAT ACTUALLY DOES MAKE SENSE BECAUSE OKAY.
BUT ARE THERE NOT INSTANCES WHERE MEDIUM COULD BE APPROPRIATE BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT? IN I ONE? OH, AB? ABSOLUTELY.
IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE GONNA BREAK IT OUT THIS WAY, THERE'S GONNA BE A SPLIT TO, TO SOME DEGREE.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO RETHINK THAT BECAUSE, AND, AND WHAT MEDIUM, ACTUALLY, IF YOU USE THE DEFINITION, I'M ASSUMING UP HERE, BY THE WAY, THE BOOK, YOU KNOW, THE, THE ACTUAL BOOK OF DEFINITIONS THAT WE HAVE, AND IT WAS ABSOLUTELY NO HOPE FOR, FOR THIS, THIS APPLICATION.
REALLY? NO, IT WAS, THAT'S WHY THEY HAD A COME WITH DIFFERENT ONES ANYWAY.
THE PROCESSING, FABRICATION, ASSEMBLING TREATMENT MATERIAL.
YOU, YOU GUYS CAN READ IT MM-HMM
BUT, SO IF WE WERE TO DO THE VENN DIAGRAM IDEA OR METHOD OR, YOU KNOW, I I FINE WITH, YOU KNOW, HEAVY MEDIUM OR HEAVY, UH, A MEDIUM BEING, ESPECIALLY BASICALLY ACROSS THE BOARD.
I, ONE HAS HISTORICALLY, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THE ORIGINAL STATEMENT OF INTENT MM-HMM
IT STATES, UM, CERTAIN INDUSTRIES IN TOWN, WHICH DO NOT IN ANY WAY DETRACT FROM RESIDENTIAL DESIRABILITY OF NEARBY AREAS AND PERMIT INDUSTRIES TO LOCATE NEAR LABOR SUPPLY.
IF WE WERE TO ALLOW, OR IT'S TO MAKE THESE MORE BLANKET, MORE VAGUE OR BROAD STROKES AND JUST SAY LIGHT AND MEDIUM, I WOULD WANT US TO CONSIDER, UM, HAVING A HEAVIER PROTECTION IN THE STATEMENT OF INTENT.
STATEMENT INTENT DOESN'T WORK IF WE GO TO THAT PHILOSOPHY.
AND IT COULD BE SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS, UH, WHILE PROHIBITING RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS AND NOT DETRACTING FROM RESIDENTIAL DESIRABILITY OF NEARBY AREAS,
SO I MEAN, YOU COULD EVEN JUST ADD THAT IN THERE.
I THINK THAT COULD BE GOOD, ASSUMING PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THAT STATEMENT OF INTENT WHEN MAKING THESE DECISIONS.
WE, SO IT, IT'S, SO THE WAY THIS CONVERSATION'S GOING, INSTEAD OF LISTING ALL THESE USES FOR, UM, EVERYTHING BEING EITHER BY RIGHT OR SPECIAL USE PERMIT MM-HMM
SIMPLIFYING IT TO LIGHT IS BY RIGHT IN I ONE AND HEAVY, HEAVY, UH, WOULD BE SUP, EVERYTHING WOULD BE SUP UNDER I TWO IS IS REALLY IN EFFECT WHAT WE'RE SAYING.
ARE WE ALSO SAYING THAT NOTHING LIGHT CAN EVER BE IN I TWO? NO.
AND HOW DO WE DELINEATE BETWEEN, I THINK THE LARGER LIGHT IS BY VARIETY.
LIGHT LIGHT IS BY, RIGHT? I TWO YEAH.
THAT, SO THAT, THAT'S WHICH I LIKE BECAUSE TOO, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE ZONING MAP, OUR I ONE IS IN OUR FLOODWAY FOR THE MOST PART, RIGHT? LIKE 85% OF IT IS, I THINK WE SAID DEVELOPED IN, IN OUR FLOODWAY AND THAT, BUT THE I TOO IS THAT, UM, IT'S OFF OF, WHAT IS IT? HAPPY CREEK TECH PARK OF PROGRESS AND THERE'S STILL A GOOD BIT OF OPEN LAND THERE.
AND THEN YOU'VE GOT KENDRICK LANE IS STILL I TOO.
SO YOU'VE GOT TWO LARGE TRACKS OF LAND OR YOU KNOW, AREAS THAT ARE APPROPRIATE AND HAVE SPACE FOR THIS KIND OF DEVELOPMENT.
AND THEN YOU GOT ABT TEXT, BUT WHO KNOWS WHEN SOMETHING'S GONNA HAPPEN THERE.
SO THE LAST PULL CONTINUE TO PULL THIS, IF THIS DIRECTION, WE'D LIKE TO GO, YOU CAN REWRITE THE THING TO DO THIS FOR THE, HOW ARE WE GONNA DELINEATE THOSE THINGS THAT WOULD BELONG IN I ONE THAT ARE MEDIUM? THERE ARE SOME THINGS CONSTRUED IN MEDIUM SPECIAL USE THAT WOULD JUST MEDIA ALL BE, JUST CALL 'EM SPECIAL USE.
BECAUSE THIS MAKES ALL THIS PALLY A LOT OF TEXT.
IT MAKES THINGS A LOT EASIER IF WE DO THIS.
BUT IT, BY MAKING IT SIMPLER, IT ALSO MAKES IT MORE, UH, AT RISK OF SUBJECTIVE INTERPRETATION LATER ON.
OH, WELL THERE'S SOME OF THAT IN HERE ALREADY STATING THAT OF COURSE.
WHERE WE, UM, LAUREN WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY, WELL, THIS IS SIMILAR SO IT CAN HAPPEN.
THAT LITTLE LINE THAT, AND THERE'S A LINE THAT'S IN THERE THAT STATES THERE I CALL A LOOPHOLE LINE.
AND I DON'T, I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER USED IT.
'CAUSE I, I FRANKLY, I GET IT DOWN AT THE BOTTOM, IT SAYS IT SIMILAR USES LIKE DETERMINED BY THE ZONING.
AND, AND YOU ALMOST NEED THAT BECAUSE YOU CAN'T ANTICIPATE EVERY POSSIBLE USE.
NOW, OF COURSE YOU WOULD HAVE SOMETHING SOLICIT HERE LIKE PUBLIC PARKS,
[00:40:01]
PLAYGROUNDS, UTILITIES, FACILITIES, OPEN SPACE, UM, ACCESSORY USES.RIGHT? THOSE THINGS BEING ALLOWED BY, RIGHT.
I MEAN SOME, SO SOME OF THOSE LISTS WOULD STILL BE IN HERE, BUT, UM, OOPS.
UM, YEAH, WE'VE TO WORD IT IN THERE SOMEHOW THAT THOSE ARE STILL OKAY THERE.
IF PART OF THE, UH, STATEMENT OF INTENT IS GONNA BE PROTECT RESIDENTIALS OR, OR RESIDENTIAL USE THAT ARE NEARBY, AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S POTENTIALLY REGULAR FREIGHT TRUCK ACTIVITY AND WE'RE SAYING, OH, IT'S JUST GONNA BE SPECIAL USE.
HOW DO WE MAKE IT CLEAR THAT'S THAT REGULAR FREIGHT TRUCK ACTIVITY GOING IN SOMEONE'S BACKYARD IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
THAT'S LIKE THE UPS CENTER OVER THERE, RIGHT? WHEN UPS WAS THERE AND YOU'VE GOT PEACH TREES, SOMETHING, OR MM-HMM
YOU'VE GOT A RELATIVELY NEW SUBDIVISION THAT, THAT TOUCHES IT.
SO, UM, BUT WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, ONE OF THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS COULD BE A TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS.
LIKE HOW MUCH TRAFFIC ARE YOU GENERATING TRAFFIC AND THEN JUST HAVING TRUCKS GO THROUGH YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
WELL THEN YOU'RE ALSO, YOU CAN LIMIT THE HOURS THAT THE TRUCKS CAN GO THROUGH THERE.
I MEAN, YOU SET IT TO REASONABLE TIMES WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
BUT IT'S PRETTY, IT, IT, IT IS, IT LEAVES A LOT SUBJECTIVE.
LIKE, LIKE YOU SAID, WHEN IT WE'RE LOOKING AT IT SIMPLE ICE CODE.
BUT IT, AND IF, IF, IF LAUREN'S MAKING THE DECISION THIS DAY, 10 YEARS FROM NOW SOMEONE ELSE HAS MADE THE DECISION MM-HMM
THEY MAY MAKE DIFFERENT DECISIONS.
BUT IF WE'RE LOOKING TO, YOU KNOW, ENCOURAGE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, I THINK SOMETIMES SIMPLICITY LENS, WOULD WE WANNA DO SIMPLICITY AND THEN NAME SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY LIKE FOR CERTAIN AREAS.
I MEAN, I'M TRYING TO THINK AS WELL, YOU KNOW, PART OF WHAT CODE DOES IS ENCOURAGE CERTAIN GROUPS AND ORGANIZATIONS AND IF THERE ARE BUSINESSES THAT ARE INDUSTRIES THAT WE'D REALLY LIKE TO HAVE HERE SAY, HEY, IT'S ALL LIGHT MANUFACTURING.
ESPECIALLY HERE'S THE ONE HERE, HERE WE LEFT FACE
UM, AND OF COURSE THAT CAN CHANGE OVER TIME, BUT YEAH, THERE'S THE RISK GOES ON.
AND WHEN WE SAY THE HEAVY, I, I PERSONALLY DON'T WANT COAL YARDS EVEN IN OUR I TWO, BUT WELL, COAL YARDS IS LISTED AS BY RIGHT.
AND I ONE AND YOUR, UH, NO, I TOOK, TOOK THAT, THAT WORD TOOK THAT OUT, I THOUGHT.
WAS THAT, OH, WAS THAT STROKE? OH, I MUST HAVE.
I JUST SAW, I MISSED IT PERSONALLY.
I DON'T, I DON'T REALLY WANT COAL YARDS IN THERE.
SO, BUT COAL YARD BE LIKE AN ASPHALT PLANT.
NO, IT'S A DIFFERENT COAL YARD IS, YOU KNOW, SOFT, HARDCORE PILED, READY TO BE BURNED IN THE FURNACE THAT UH, OH, THAT PLACE.
PROBABLY NOT, NOT SOMETHING WE WANT FOR OUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT HERE IN TOWN.
SO, UH, BUT IF WE JUST GO TO THE GENERAL DEFINITIONS, UNLESS WE START LISTENING A WHOLE BUNCH OF, THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM WE'RE RUN INTO NOW WE HAVE A BUNCH OF EXCLUSIONS.
WELL, THESE ARE THE HEAVY MANUFACTURING, BUT WE DON'T WANT COAL YARDS, WE DON'T WANT THIS AND WE DON'T WANT THAT.
SO AGAIN, OR JUST LEAVE IT UP TO THE INTERPRETATION OF THE PERSON.
TRYING TO LIST 'EM VERSUS GENERALIZING.
BUT WELL, YOU COULD HAVE, HEY, HERE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE BY RIGHT.
MANY, YOU KNOW, LET'S JUST SAY IF WE'RE LOOKING AT I TWO HEAVY, UM, INDUSTRIAL, AND THEN THERE'S ALSO A LIST OF PROHIBITED USES.
AND IF SOMEBODY 20 YEARS FROM NOW, 30 YEARS FROM NOW, WANTS TO GO BACK AND SAY, NO, WE ACTUALLY REALLY WANT COALY YARDS, THEN THEY CAN MODIFY THE ORDINANCE TO STRIKE THAT FROM THE PROHIBITIONS.
BUT I DON'T SEE ANY ISSUE WITH US SAYING DEFINITELY NOT THIS STUFF.
AT LEAST THIS THING STAND RIGHT NOW.
SO PROHIBITED USE, SO EACH SECTION WOULD HAVE A PROHIBITED USE LIST OR A STATEMENT ACTUALLY.
WELL, WE HAVE AN, NOT A LIST, BUT A STATEMENT ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO WE, SO AGAIN, WE PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO PUT A LIST BECAUSE WE CAN'T ANTICIPATE EVERYTHING THERE.
NO, I WOULDN'T LIST EXCLUDED USE.
THAT WOULD KIND OF CHANGE THE, WE HAVE AN INCLUSIVE ORDINANCE.
WE SHOULD NOT LIST WHAT WE WOULD NOT APPROVE.
UM, UNLESS YOU'RE DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN ZONES, THE ENEMY IS ALWAYS AMBIGUITY.
BUT THE BEAUTIFUL THING ABOUT ZONING IS THAT IT CAN ALWAYS CHANGE.
IT, IT'S ADOPTED AND IT'S NOT WORKING.
THE LEGISLATIVE BODY CAN CHANGE IT.
WELL, AS MUCH AS I, WE COULD GO AND MAKE ANOTHER PASS AT THIS AND WE WRITE IT AROUND THE THREE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES
[00:45:02]
AND, UM, 'CAUSE IT'S, IF, IF WE'RE GOING THAT DIRECTION, IT'S POINTLESS TO REVIEW WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT HERE.SO, BUT IT ALSO SEEMS THAT SINCE WE REALLY DO WANT ECONOMIC GROWTH HERE, THAT GOING WITH THE THREE CATEGORIES DOES PROVIDE THE MOST FLEXIBILITY.
AND IT ALMOST SEEMS LIKE THAT'S A GOOD STARTING PLACE, NOT EVEN KNOWING WHOM WE MIGHT ATTRACT.
AND IF WE SEE THAT IT'S GOING IN A PARTICULAR DIRECTION, THEN IT'S BETTER TO INTRODUCE VARYING PARAMETERS THEN ONCE YOU GUYS, BUT NOT AT THE BEGINNING.
AND ONCE YOU GUYS TAKE THIS TO PUBLIC HEARING, I MEAN, IF THE PUBLIC COMES OUT AND BEING LIKE, JUST EVISCERATE US FOR DOING THIS, THEN CHANGE IT.
SO WHY, WHY DON'T WE NOT GO, GO BACK AND DO ANOTHER PASS OF THESE TWO THINGS USING THOSE THREE CATEGORIES IN, IN THE I ONE I TWO AND, AND WITH, WITH THAT IDEA OF SPECIAL USE PERMIT ONLY FOR THE I, UM, MEDIUM AND HEAVY USE, UH, LIGHT USE BY RIGHT.
AND BOTH OR, UH, AND, UM, GO, GO IN WITH THE DEFINITIONS AND WE'LL COME BACK AGAIN.
DOES THAT SOUND REASONABLE? IT DOES.
WOULD WE WANT TO LOOK THROUGH OTHER, UH, WELL, I GUESS NO.
'CAUSE THEY'RE ALL, EVERYTHING'S CONNECTED, BUT, UM, AS FAR AS THE USES GO, WE, WE STILL CONTINUE.
WELL, THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING.
DO YOU WANNA LOOK AT EVERYTHING THAT'S NOT THE USES STILL? OR DO YOU WANT OH YEAH.
OH NO, WE'LL CONTINUE ON, WE'LL CONTINUE ON WITH THE REST OF THE DOCUMENT, BUT NOT, NOT THE BUYRIGHT AND, AND THE USE.
THERE'S ALSO A SUCH IRONY HERE THAT, UH, OUR I TWO IS MUCH MORE SURROUNDED, AT LEAST THE PART THAT'S OVER ON THE EASTERN SIDE IS MUCH MORE SURROUNDED BY RESIDENTIAL THAN I IS
BUT I MEAN, THAT'S SUBJECT TO CHANGE IF, UH, THAT PROPERTY OWNER EVER, UM, OH, THAT AREA NORTH.
BUT, UH, YEAH, WE HAVE I TWO THAT'S SURROUNDED BY, UH, YEAH, R ONE.
WELL, THE WAY IT WAS EXPLAINED TO ME WHEN I FIRST STARTED HERE AND FIND YOU, IT WAS FIVE YEARS AGO AND I DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT PEARL ROYAL.
IT WAS THAT, I GUESS BACK IN THE SIXTIES AND SEVENTIES, THERE WAS AN ANTICIPATED, UM, THE EXIT OFF OF 66.
AND SO AT THE TIME IT WAS LET'S REZONE I THINK BASICALLY TO INDUSTRIAL AND ANTICIPATION OF THAT MM-HMM
AND THEN THE, THE INTERCHANGE CAMPAIGN.
UM, SO NOW YOU'VE BOUGHT PASTURE FIELDS, BASICALLY A COLLEGE RESIDENTIAL AND IN MM-HMM
AND IDEALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT JUST FROM PLANNING AND JUST LOOKING AT THE MAPS, YOU DON'T LIKE, THERE'S, IT DOESN'T HAVE THE BEST ACCESS BY TRANSPORTATION.
ESPECIALLY WITHOUT THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR.
SO I THINK THAT'S WHY IT'S BEEN SLOW TO DEVELOP AND IT'S SO LIMITED BECAUSE TRANSPORTATION ACCESS YEAH.
AND WHEN TO GET THE, I THE INITIAL IDEAS OF THIS DRAFTED OUT, GONNA SEND IT OUT TO THE GROUP.
AND I APPRECIATE FEEDBACK, IMMEDIATE FEEDBACK ON THAT.
SO BY THE TIME WE GET TO OUR NEXT MEETING, IT'S A LITTLE MORE MATURE IF THAT'S OKAY.
SO I THINK IF WE SKIP AHEAD TO 6 13, 14 IS, I THINK THAT WE CAN CONTINUE THAT.
SO WE DON'T WANNA LOOK AT, UM, SETBACKS OR ANYTHING HERE.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THIS DID I GO TOO FAR THOUGHT? SIX 14 AREA REGULATIONS.
SIX 14 IS BACK BEFORE THAT OF SIX 13.
PLANS REQUIRED ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS.
I MEAN, EVERYTHING HERE LOOKED FINE TO ME.
THERE WAS ONE CHANGE IT WAS IN.
HOW BIG IS 10,000 SQUARE FEET? HOW BIG IS WHAT? HOW BIG IS 10,000 SQUARE FEET? LIKE 10,000 SQUARE FEET? UM, THERE WERE TIMES NO, THAT'S TOO SMALL.
ARE YOU THINKING OF LIKE COMMERCIAL SPACE AT 10,000 SQUARE FEET? WE, WE HAD THAT CONVERSATION.
WITH RESPECT TO THE TRAFFIC, DID JOHN SAY IT WAS, SAY IT WAS TOWN HALL? I THINK HE SAID BOTH, WHAT WAS IT? TOWN HALL 10,000.
I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THAT.
I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
I'M TERRIBLE WITH ASSESSING SIZE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
BUT IF WE WANT TO PROMOTE INDUSTRY, I MEAN, I GUESS YOU DON'T WANNA GO ANY SMALLER, BUT ALMOST BY NECESSITY.
[00:50:02]
RIGHT? HOW LIGHT WILL THE INDUSTRY BE IF YOU NEED THE SIZE THAT WAY? SQUARE FEET.I'M THINKING OF LIKE LOT SIZES.
THAT'S THE QUARTER OF AN ACRE.
OH, THAT'S THE LOT SIZE NOT THE BUILDING SIZE.
THE BLACK, THAT'S NO, AND THAT'S NOT FOR AN INDUSTRIAL AREA THAT'S NOT REALLY VERY BIG DONE THAT LOT.
IT'S, WE'VE GOT BUILDING RESTRICTION LINES.
SO THE BUILDING CAN FILL THAT UP.
BUT WE HAVE THE LOT COVERAGE REQUIREMENT TOO.
SO 70% OF THE LOT MAY BE USED, THEN WE'D HAVE OPEN SPACE PARKING CHANGES.
SO, UH, ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT ON THE WAIVER OF THE HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS IN HERE.
WHAT, UM, IT, IT COME, CAME INTO A BUNCH OF DISCUSSIONS.
I, I, I WAS HEARING, UM, ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN AND CAN'T BUILD AND ALSO LOOKING AT OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT ALLOW A GREATER HEIGHT THAN WE'RE ALLOWING.
BUT THERE'S ALSO THE, UM, THE PUSHBACK OF IN IN TOWN SAYING, WELL, WE WANT IT TO BE CONSISTENT WITH TOWN.
WE WANT IT, WE DON'T WANT BIG BUILDINGS IN TOWN.
BUT, BUT WE SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO IT IF THE SITUATION IS RIGHT.
THAT'S THE IDEA OF PUTTING OUT, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE INDUSTRY IS.
COULD YOU, JUST SO I CAN THINK ABOUT IT A LITTLE MORE CONCRETELY, COULD YOU GIVE AN EXAMPLE AND OF COURSE, COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL OF A SITUATION WHERE IT MAY BE RIGHT TO DO THAT.
IF YOU WERE TO HAVE, UM, A, A FACILITY THAT HAD OVERHEAD, UM, MACHINERY THAT WOULD MOVE STORAGE TO HIGHER SHELLS.
YOU KNOW, AND THEY HAD THOSE SHELLS THAT ARE TYPICALLY STACKED 10 HIGH.
YOU WOULD NEED GREATER THAN 45 FEET TO DO THAT SORT OF FACILITY.
SO IT'S JUST GIVING A LITTLE BIT OF, UM, BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, YOU DON'T WANT THESE HUGE BUILDINGS PUT WHERE IT'S NOT ALLOWED.
SO IT PROTECTS THE INTEGRITY OF TOWN, BUT THERE COULD BE SITUATIONS.
BUT, SO IF WE PUT IT AS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THAT MM-HMM
THEN IT HAS TO BE LOOKED AT ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
UH, CHECK THIS MOUSE I MONEY OVER HERE.
UM, THIS IS A BIG SECTION BECAUSE THE NEXT COME TWO IS PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.
'CAUSE I ONE DID NOT HAVE ANY PERFORMANCE STANDARDS BEFORE IN THE OLD, OLD TEXT.
SO WE'RE TRYING, TRYING TO CREATE SOMEWHERE AROUND PAGE FIVE MAYBE.
I MEAN, I, I, I, I I, I FREELY ADMIT THAT I DUPLICATED SOME OF THE WORK I DID IN THE DATA CENTERS BY COMING UP WITH SOME YES.
I WAS GONNA SAY, WHICH I THINK IS REALLY GOOD BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS BEING BROUGHT UP WITH THE DATA CENTERS IS, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN WE PUT ALL THESE STANDARDS IN? WELL, IT'S LIKE, WELL, OKAY, WELL NOW THEY'RE ACROSS.
SO IF WE, IF, IF THE DATA CENTER EVER MAKES IT HERE, WE, WE CAN MODIFY THAT TO FIT INTO THE I TWO REGULATIONS LATER ON THAT WE GO THROUGH TOO.
ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION HOW MUCH RESIDENTIAL ZONING IS AROUND SOME OF THE I, THE I ONE AREA.
I, I WANT TO, IT'S, IT'S GOOD TO LOOK AT THAT.
I ALSO WANT TO KEEP IN MIND THE FUTURE.
WHAT IF A PROPERTY OWNER ASKS TO REZONE SOMETHING TO I ONE AND IT'S GRANTED THEN WHAT ARE THEY GONNA BE SURROUNDING? WHAT ARE, YOU KNOW, WHAT IN THAT FUTURE APPLICATION, UM, WHAT PROTECTIONS OR CONSIDERATIONS DO WE HAVE FOR THE RESIDENTIALS AROUND THERE? 'CAUSE CURRENTLY, LIKE, LIKE IT SAYS, IT SHOWS THERE.
I ONE HAS ALMOST NOTHING TOUCHING IT IN TERMS OF, UH, RESIDENTIAL EXCEPT FOR THAT PART THAT'S IN THE FLOODPLAIN, WHICH, YOU KNOW MM-HMM
WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN THERE ANYWAY.
UM, BUT IF THAT WERE TO EXPAND, THEN IT WOULD BE ADJACENT TO A LOT MORE RESIDENTIAL, POTENTIALLY.
SO IT'S JUST A MATTER OF, UM, YEAH.
I'M, I MEAN IT'S, I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THIS.
WON'T CHANGE IT BY IN EXCESS OF FIVE DEGREES.
[00:55:01]
NO, IT TAKES A LOT TO CHANGE THAT MUCH THE YEAH.I FEEL LIKE IN MY THERMOSTAT, BECAUSE OF ONE DEGREE HIGHER, I START GROWING
WE'RE OUTSIDE IN THE INDUSTRIAL AREA.
THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING LIKE, GOSH, CHER, URBAN ISLAND, THOSE EXIST.
NOW, WHEN IT COMES TO ALL THESE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS, ESPECIALLY AS IT WOULD RELATE TO, WELL, DO WE THINK THAT THESE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS MAY NEGATIVELY IMPACT, UH, OR BE AN UNDUE BURDEN TO YOUR SMALL BUSINESS, LIGHT INDUSTRIAL SITUATIONS WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH AND PROVE ALL OF THESE THINGS AND SPEND THAT MUCH MORE TIME AND MONEY TO IT? OR IS IT SOMETHING WHERE YOU GUYS WOULD BE ABLE TO LOOK AT IT AND GO, YEAH, YOU'RE GONNA BE FINE.
THERE'S SOME PART OF THE LIKE ADMINISTRATION SECTION OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE THAT LETS THE DIRECTOR WAIVE.
UM, SOME OF THE REQUIREMENTS, LIKE, UM, I'VE BEEN ABLE TO WAIVE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT OR STATEMENT REQUIREMENTS MM-HMM
UM, YOU KNOW, WITH, IF THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THAT THE LAND HAS EVER BEEN USED FOR ANYTHING LIKE TOXIC.
UM, SO THERE IS A RELIEF MECHANISM THERE, BUT WE WOULD JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE, THAT THERE'S LIKE PARAMETERS FOR ME TO FOLLOW THAT YOU CLEARLY DEFINE THE BOX THAT I'M ALLOWED TO OPERATE IN.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT THAT IS IN THE ADMINISTRATION SECTION.
SO LIKE RIGHT NOW, E AT THE END SOMETHING, BUT UNLESS IT WAS AT THE BEGINNING, BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S GREAT TO HAVE THESE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS, BUT UNLESS THERE'S A REPORTING MECHANISM OF, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY MUST SUBMIT.
I MEAN THAT'S WHAT IT WAS WITH THE DATA CENTERS, RIGHT? LIKE THEY HAD TO SUBMIT SOMETHING THAT SHOWED THAT THEY FOLLOWED EVERYTHING IN THIS PERFORMING STANDARDS.
IF WE WERE TO HAVE STANDARDS IN HERE, BUT NO REPORTING, THEN THE STANDARDS THEMSELVES WOULD BE SOMEWHAT USELESS.
YOU WAIT UNTIL THERE'S A COMPLAINT AND THEN, THEN YOU INVOKE THE THAT'S RIGHT.
INVOKE AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH HOW YOU DO IT RIGHT NOW.
LIKE THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS EXIST NOW IN THE I TWO, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY GO OUT AND MONITOR AND LIST.
IT WOULDN'T GO OUT AND MONITOR THIS COMPLAINT.
OR SOMEONE'S COMPLAINING ABOUT EXCESSIVE DUST.
SO IF WE GET A CALL, UM, LIKE IF IT'S NOISE, WE'LL GO OUT THERE AND, AND THEN WE'LL CALL PD 'CAUSE THEY'VE GOT THE NOISE METER, UM, THERE'S LOT OF DUST OR SMELLS AND IT'S LIKE, OKAY, SOMEBODY SAYING THERE'S A NUISANCE, WE'LL GO OUT IMMEDIATELY AND LOOK LIKE WE HAD SOMEBODY COME AND COMPLAIN THAT THEY'RE NEIGHBORS TO ALL.
UM, WE WENT RIGHT OUT THERE AND
SO THAT IDEAS, THESE ARE VERY TWO DIFFERENT REACTIONS.
IT'S JUST HARD BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LITERALLY SITTING OUT THERE LISTENING TO THE DOG BARK FOR LIKE 10 MINUTES NONSTOP.
AND THEN EACH TIME WE GO, THERE'S NO DOG.
BUT THEY HAVEN'T RECORDED ON THAT PHONE.
UM, ANY MODIFICATIONS OR SUGGESTIONS TO THIS ENTIRE SECTION BEFORE WE JUST GO TO THE NEXT ONE? OKAY.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU HAD LIKE, VARIETY OF OUTDOOR SCREENING.
UM, IN REREADING THIS, UH, AREN'T THERE INDUSTRIAL USES? I MEAN IF WE EVEN JUST LOOK AT, LEMME JUST POP OVER TO THIS AGAIN.
UM, YEAH, NO, I GUESS IT WOULD ALL BE INDOORS.
I JUST, I COULD IMAGINE THERE BEING, WELL EVEN IN MEDIUM THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT WOULD BE OUTSIDE BASICALLY, DEPENDING ON WHAT, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE MEDIUM WAS.
[01:00:01]
SAYING EXCEPT WHERE OTHERWISE SPECIFICALLY APPROVED, PERMITTED USE USUALLY BE CONDUCTED, ET CETERA.UM, WOULD SPECIFIC APPROVAL BE LIKE, YOU KNOW, AS A LINE IN THE SUP? I WOULD ASSUME SO IN THIS CASE, UM, THERE WOULD'VE TO BE SOME APPROVAL.
IT DIDN'T SPECIFY WHAT THE MECHANISM OF APPROVAL WAS.
DO WE NEED, DO WE NEED TO AT THIS POINT? OKAY.
AND THIS IS ALL JUST MORE ON THE SAME, UH, WE HAVE THIS SECTION ON
WAIT, GET RID OF THAT BUILDING, PERMIT BUILDING OR ZONING PERMIT.
THE WATERS JUST THROWING IN BUILDING PERMITS.
UM, WHERE ABOUT WHERE? ON THE PAGE.
OH, PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE? YEAH.
SEE WHERE IT SAYS PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A BUILDING OR ZONING.
'CAUSE WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN IS THAT LIKE BEFORE THE COUNTY ISSUES THE BUILDING PERMIT, IT'S GOTTA GO TO THEM AND THEN THAT'S EXTRA COORDINATION AND, UM, THAT WORK.
SO, UH, IN THAT CASE, SHOULD THIS SENTENCE WHOOPS.
JUST SAY PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF A ZONING PERMIT, BECAUSE THEY WON'T, I MEAN, TECHNICALLY THEY WON'T ISSUE THE BUILDING PERMIT UNTIL THEY HAVE ZONING CLEARANCE ANYWAYS.
UM, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE IN HERE? I I HAVE A QUESTION BACK AT THE SQUEEZING.
UM, NO OUTDOOR STORAGE SHALL BE PERMITTED WITHIN ANY REQUIRED YARD OF BUDDING A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.
YOU CAN'T HAVE STORAGE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING RESTRICTION LINE.
YOU CAN'T HAVE OUTDOOR STORAGE AREAS OR OUTDOOR STORAGE WITHIN THE SETBACKS.
SO YOU'VE GOT THE SETBACKS CREATE AN ENVELOPE, THE BUILDING RESTRICTION ON, THAT'S YOUR BUILDING ENVELOPE.
SO THE BUILDING DOESN'T ALWAYS PICK UP THE ENTIRE ENVELOPE, BUT WHAT THAT'S SAYING IS OUTSIDE OF THAT ENVELOPE.
BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT YOU'RE STORING.
ARE HE'S DRAWING IT FOR HER? MM-HMM
I THINK THAT, I THINK THAT, I THINK WHAT I WAS THINKING OF WAS WHEN YOU SAID STORAGE, I IMMEDIATELY SAW A BUILDING.
I, NO, THIS COULD BE LIKE THE, IT COULD BE LIKE THE TIRE STORAGE JUST BEHIND THE PLACE THERE.
SO IF YOU'RE ABUTTING A RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, THEN YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY OUTDOOR STORAGE IN THE AREA THAT'S THE BUILDINGS PUSHED BACK FROM GOTCHA.
WHAT IS THE STATUS? YOU MADE ME THINK OF A BUILDING.
WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THAT BUILDING? THAT'S AT THE CORNER OF HAPPY FEET AND COMES IT'S LIKE ACROSS FROM SOUTHERN STATES OR FORMER SOUTHERN STATES.
OH, THE OLD, UH, THE OLD BANK? NO, IT'S THIS BIG OLD THING IN, OH, IT COMES A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
THE, THE TIN ROOF TORE OFF AND THEY FINALLY GOT AROUND TO REPLACING IT.
BUT JUST A BIG WHITE CINDER BLOCK BUILDING.
OH, THAT MARKET, UM, WHAT IS THAT IT? GROCERY STORE NEXT TO IT? THERE'S A LITTLE, IT'S LOOKS, THERE'S A, SO WE ALREADY HIGHLIGHTED THAT LINE AND WE ALREADY LOOKED AT THIS AND SKIP WE'RE COME BACK.
WE'RE COMING BACK TO THIS AGAIN ONCE WE FIND OUT WHAT THE DETERMINATION IS BY THE POWER DEPARTMENT.
14 CURRENT WRITTEN TOWN STANDARDS INSTEAD OF SPECIFIC NOTING.
IS THAT OKAY? I THINK IT'S FINE.
'CAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO KNOW.
WELL, WHAT PART OF WHAT I WAS GOING THROUGH THESE, WAIT, NO BUILDING PERMIT AGAIN.
ANYWHERE IT SAYS BUILDING PERMIT, IT JUST NEEDS TO SAY ZONING PERMIT.
OH, THAT'S PART OF THE ORIGINAL WORDING TOO.
BEFORE BUILDING PERMITS ISSUED A CONSTRUCTION.
SEE, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO LIKE, WHERE THE BOOK ENDS OF THE PROCESS.
LIKE YOU START WITH ZONING AND YOU END WITH
[01:05:01]
ZONING AND BUILDING PERMITS CAN'T BE ISSUED UNTIL THEY HAVE AN APPROVED, LIKE UNTIL THEY HAVE ZONING APPROVAL.SO SHOULD IT SAY ZONING WHEN? CHANGE IT TO ZONING? BUT I'M WONDERING WHY IT SAID FOUR.
THAT THAT, WHAT SECTION IS THAT? I JUST, UH, 16.
IT WAS 10, BUT THEN IT GOT CHANGED WITH THE ADDITION OF THE OTHER SPOTS.
I THINK WHAT IT'S SAYING IS THAT THE COUNTY CAN'T ISSUE THE BUILDING PERMIT UNTIL WE'VE APPROVED IT.
BUT THAT'S ALREADY EIGHT IN OUR ORDINANCE.
DO WE NEED THE PARAGRAPH? UM, UNLESS YOU WANNA JUST SAY PLAN WAS COMPLY WITH CURRENT WRITTEN STANDARDS.
BUT THAT PROBABLY IS SUPPOSED LIST TOO.
BECAUSE THAT JUST FEELS WE DON'T ISSUE BUILDING PERMITS.
WE DON'T ISSUE BUILDING PERMITS.
I MEAN, BUT IT'S ALSO LIKE WE REQUIRE PLANS BE SUBMITTED PRIOR TO DOING ANYTHING.
YOU, YOU STILL NEED THIS PARAGRAPH? 'CAUSE THIS IS THE SAME BEFORE I SEE CHANGING BUILDING TO ZONING.
AND THEN IT GOES INTO SOMETHING OUT IN THE BUILDING.
ALL THE OUTDOOR STORAGE NEEDS TO MAKE SENSE AND NOT BE OBTRUSIVE EFFECTIVELY.
UM, THIS WOULD NEED TO BE MOD UPDATED.
IS THAT WRONG NOW? UH, WELL, WHAT IS 1310 C TWO? BECAUSE I'M PRETTY SURE IT WOULD BE INCORRECT.
1310 C TWO IS, IS NOW SOMETHING ELSE WITHOUT ALL THE ADDITION.
OH WAIT, 1310 WAS THIS SECTION THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW.
OH, IT'S JUST REFERENTIAL TO THE SPOT IMMEDIATELY ABOVE IT.
WE HAVE OUR OWN CONVERSATION RIGHT THERE.
UM, GIVE ME, FITS ALL THE REFERENCES IN HERE.
'CAUSE A LOT OF 'EM WERE BROKEN.
YOU KNOW, GO HERE WITH HERE IS NO LONGER THERE.
AND IN SOME CASES THAT REFERENCED, UH, CODE STATE CODE THAT NO LONGER IS THERE.
AND ON THE OTHER HAND, IF YOU PUT EVERYTHING TO JUST ACCEPT OTHERWISE IN WRITTEN TOWN STANDARDS, THEN WHEN ZONING OR ANYBODY'S TRYING TO LOOK AT THIS AND SEE WHERE SHOULD I GO? SO IF THAT'S THE BALANCE, IN SOME CASES I, I DID GENERALIZE SOME CASES I DIDN'T, DEPENDING ON WHAT IT WAS GOING THROUGH.
SO, BUT IF THAT'S THE RIGHT BALANCE, I DON'T KNOW.
SO YEAH, EVERYTHING THAT'S THE LS MAKES SENSE.
UM, YEAH, WE DON'T WANNA HAVE SCREENING VENDING MACHINES.
UH, ANYTHING ELSE?
I WAS LOOKING AT OTHER, OTHER JURISDICTIONS CODES.
I HADN'T, I RAN ACROSS THIS BEAM IN THERE MM-HMM
AND, AND, AND THAT'S, AND I COULD SEE HOW THAT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR US.
SO I INCORPORATED IN OURS, MY ONLY THOUGHT OR CONCERN IS THAT WE ADDRESS PARKING IN THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
UM, BUT I LIKE THE, I LIKE BEING, BEING ABLE TO REDUCE YOUR WA IT WITHOUT HAVING TO LEAVE, GO TO COUNSELOR AT THE DCA.
UM, AND I THINK THE SHARED PARKING BETWEEN MULTIPLE INDUSTRIAL TENANTS, I THINK THAT'S FINE.
DOES THIS SENTENCE ALSO THEN PRESUME, UH, PERMITTED, UH, PRESUME THAT THE SHARED PARKING IS AN ADEQUATE NUMBER FOR BOTH ENTITIES? SO LIKE, NOW YOU'RE ALLOWED TO SHARE PARKING, LIKE, OR YOU'RE ALLOWED TO LIKE LEASE PARKING SPACES WITHIN 300 FEET.
BUT THAT USE, LIKE, YOU CAN'T TAKE REQUIRED PARKING SPACES.
SO IT IS PRESUMED THAT YOU STILL ARE MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS.
AND I MEAN, IF YOU WANTED TO STRENGTHEN IT, YOU COULD SAY
[01:10:01]
SHARED PARKING BETWEEN MULTIPLE INDUSTRIAL TENANTS IS PERMITTED.IF THERE IS, UH, IF, IF A TOTAL NUMBER OF SPACES MEETS THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR BOTH.
I DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH COFFEE TODAY.
UM, I, ENTITIES LI TENANTS, TENANTS.
CAN I GET BIGGER? NO, NO, THAT'S OKAY.
WHAT DID YOU ADD? IF THE TOTAL NUMBER OF
ALRIGHT, THAT WOULD BE THE END OF I ONE.
ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, CONCERNS,
SO I, DOES ANYONE NEED ANOTHER PASTRY BEFORE WE START ON I TWO
THESE ARE REALLY GOOD, BY THE WAY.
GET I TWO WITH THIS? WE'D HAD THE SAME THING.
WOULD WANT US, UM, WHEN WE GET TO THE USES.
UM, AND THE, EVEN THE BEGINNING, THIS, HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS AGAIN JUST TO SEE IF WE HAVE TO CHANGE THIS FIVE.
JUST GOING TO THE THREE CATEGORIES.
UH, SEE WHAT YOU'RE GONNA PICK UP.
UH, I THINK FOR THE, IN THE, UM, STATEMENT HERE, JUST FROM A, I GUESS WE CALL IT STYLISTIC STANDPOINT.
THE INDUSTRIAL EMPLOYMENT DISTRICT IS DESIGNED TO ESTABLISH AND PROMOTE ADVANCED MANU OR PROMOTE ADVANCED MANUFACTURING.
I DON'T THINK WE NEED THIS FIRST SECTION.
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT NOPE, THAT'S FINE.
UM, WOULD ANYBODY BE AGAINST REEDING IN THE PHRASE INAPPROPRIATE LOCATIONS OF THE TOWN? UH, NO.
I WOULDN'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH IT.
WHY DO YOU WANNA ADD THAT BACK IN? UH, I JUST LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING EXTRA PROTECTIONS.
IF, IF THERE'S A, LIKE, PROPOSED REZONING IN AN AREA THAT IS NOT APPROPRIATE, IT'S JUST EXTRA WORDING TO BE ABLE TO SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT CAN'T BECAUSE MM-HMM
THIS IS WHAT THIS SAYS, BUT THEN GETS STAFF TO, TO BE LIKE, HEY, I CAN TAKE THIS APPLICATION BECAUSE IT'S JUST GONE.
UM, NOW THE OTHER THING THAT I NOTICED, 'CAUSE IN THE ORIGINAL IT WAS ENABLE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF INDUSTRIAL AND EMPLOYMENT USES.
UM, NOW WE'RE SEEING PROMOTED ADVANCED MANUFACTURING, R AND D LOGISTICS, ET CETERA.
IT DOESN'T MENTION THE WORD INDUSTRIAL.
DO WE WANT INDUSTRIAL? IT'S UNDER, IT'S UNDER INDUSTRIAL EMPLOYMENT DISTRICT HEADING.
I MEAN, THAT'S THE SAME WAY THAT THE, ALL THE STUDENTS LI FOR RESIDENTIAL SAY RESIDENTIAL IN THEM.
IT, IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T.
UM, I MEAN, I, I I'M NOT GONNA, I'M NOT TOO WORRIED ABOUT IT.
I WAS JUST WONDERING WHAT PEOPLE GOOGLE THOUGHT HERE.
AND THEN WE CAN JUST SKIP ALL THESE, YOU SKIP ALL THIS USES STUFF AGAIN.
[01:15:01]
GO AWAY TO BE GENERALIZED LOOP PERMIT, JUDGE PERMIT, ALL THAT.IS THAT WHERE WE PICK UP YOUR YEAH.
MY SIZE ARE BIGGER THAN I TWO THAN I ONE.
UM, PUTTING UP TO 10 FOR THE BEER.
DID I MISS OUR LANDSCAPE PRESERVATION AND PLANTING GUIDE? PARDON? LANDSCAPE PRESERVATION AND PLANTING GUIDE IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE SEEN THAT.
SO, UM, THE
UM, SO THOSE REFERENCES MEANT TO STAY IN HERE.
I FEEL LIKE WE LOOKED AT THIS, DIDN'T WE? WHAT THE LANDSCAPE RESERVATION AND PLANTING GOT.
WE HAD SOME TALKING ABOUT THE LAST, LAST TIME AROUND.
I FEEL LIKE I REMEMBER LOOKING AT THAT UNLESS I WAS AT THE IT IS STILL A VALID COMMENT THOUGH, RIGHT? ABSOLUTELY.
WE, WE HAD DONE SO TO REVIEWING WHEN WE FIRST STARTED, BUT THAT'S ANOTHER AREA LIKE WE'RE WORKING.
I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT DROVE ME TO PUT THE STATEMENT IN.
SOMETHING CAME OFF THE NAME DIDN'T HAVE THE WHOLE CORRECT NAME.
I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA, UM, FOR THAT ONE.
AND WHAT IS THE IDEA OF MOVING FROM 50 TO 65 AND ALLOW MORE BUILDABLE AREA? SO IS WHAT BUT, BUT LEAVE ENOUGH PERMEABLE AREA STILL FOR THE MOIST, UM, SOAKING OR THE RAIN POND WATER AROUND, BUT JUST, BUT ALLOW MORE BUILDABLE AREA, BUT NOT GET SO FAR THAT WE'RE OUT OF BED.
AND YOU KNOW, AGAIN, LOOKING AT OTHER JURISDICTIONS, LOOKING AROUND, IS THIS TYPICAL, WE'RE STILL A LITTLE ON THE LOW SIDE, BUT GOING FROM 50 TO 80 SEEMED EXCESSIVE.
AND WHEN YOU'RE SAYING, LOOKING AT OTHER JURISDICTIONS, ARE YOU LOOKING AT OTHER PRIMARILY RURAL OR VIRGINIA CAL? YEAH.
LOOK UP LOOKING AT WINCHESTER, EVEN STRASSBURG.
BUT I DO LOOK AT MANASSAS AND WHERE I LOOK AT FAIRFAX, I WILL LOOK AT LARGE AND SMALL JUST TO GIVE SOME SORT OF IDEA.
I WAS TALKING WITH OUR CONSULTANTS TODAY.
UM, THEY WERE LOOKING AT, UH, LIKE WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT TOWNS MM-HMM
ALL PEPPER, THEY KIND OF COMPARE US WITH, 'CAUSE WE'RE SIMILAR IN SIZE.
WHEN THEY'RE ALL AT SMITH, SMITHFIELD.
CHESTERFIELD, UM, CHESTERFIELD'S NOT ONE.
I, I DO, I DO LOOK AT COLD PEPPER, BUT CHESTERFIELD'S NOT ONE I HAVE.
AND THEN TYPICALLY, LIKE ALMAR, I ALWAYS GO TO THEM 'CAUSE THEY'RE LIKE THE GOLD STANDARD FOR, THEY HAVE BEAUTIFUL DOCUMENTATION.
THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL DOCUMENTATION IF YOU WANT OF, AND NOT TO MAKE EVERYONE MAD, BUT LEESBURG HAS A FANTASTIC CODE AND WHEN YOU CLICK THROUGH IT, IT REFERENCES OTHER PIECES OF IT AND YOU CAN JUST CLICK AND IT JUST TAKES YOU RIGHT TO IT.
AS I, AS I TOLD YOU, IF I COULD GO, IF I WERE KING, I'D THROW THIS WHOLE THING OUT AND REWRITE AND REFORMAT FOR THAT VERY SAME THING.
SO WHEN YOU HAVE A REFERENCE THAT IF I CHANGE THIS REFERENCE, IT RIPPLES ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE DOCUMENT.
ALL THE OTHER REFERENCES, YOU SPEND A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS DO THAT.
I'M JUST, YOU ARE CHAIRMAN, YOU ARE NOT KING AIR.
I'M SITTING HERE GOING THIS THING.
THE KING IS A BY THE WAY, WE HAVE MORE FUN THAN TOWN COUNCIL TO SAY.
ANYTHING ABOUT VIBRATIONS THAT I WOULD HAVE, MY VIBRATION WAS ADDED.
'CAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING HERE BEFORE THAT ADDRESSED IT.
IS IT THE SAME AS I ONE? IT IS VERY, YES.
'CAUSE ONCE YOU GET TO THE PROPERTY LINE, WE SHOULDN'T BE SEEING ANYTHING REALLY, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE OF RIGHT.
[01:20:01]
WE NEEDED A MEASURABLE STANDARD.BEFORE, BEFORE THEY WERE SAYING WORDS LIKE THAT YOU CAN PERCEIVE, WELL PERCEIVE HOW, YOU KNOW.
SO ANYWAY, I NEVER PERCEIVED DIRTY DISHES IN MY HOUSE.
SO, UM, I'M JUST SKIMMING, I WAS SCROLLING THROUGH THIS UNLESS SOMEONE HAD ANY COMMENTS.
I DIDN'T HAVE ANY MORE TO SAY ABOUT ANY OF IT.
UM, YEAH, ADMINISTRATION OF PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.
UM, YEAH, THAT WAS JUST LIKE FIXING A REFERENCE.
SECTION AND THERE'S A UTILITY USER THING AGAIN.
SO WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA HIGHLIGHT THAT IN YELLOW AS WELL.
UM, SO THESE ARE STARTING TO GET INTO THE, LIKE THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR THE DIFFERENT USES SPRINKLED THROUGHOUT THE ORDINANCE.
UM, AND SOME OF THESE ARE REGULATED BY THE STATE.
SO, UM, THAT WAS KIND OF A DIFFICULT PART AS TO SHOULD WE CHANGE, AT LEAST WHEN I WAS WORKING WITH THE CONSULTANT, LIKE WHAT DO WE ADD IN? WHAT DO WE, UM, WHAT DO WE JUST REFERENCE BACK TO STATE? THERE'S NO A IN CEMETERY, IT'S C-M-E-T-E-R.
WELL THAT'S BEEN THERE FOR A WHILE.
ALL E ALL E YOU LEARN SOMETHING, DON'T YOU? ALL INDEPENDENCE TOO.
MY THIRD GRADE TEACHER SAID INDEPENDENCE NEVER DANCES AND I'VE NEVER FORGOTTEN IT.
UM, I, THIS, THIS WHOLE SECTION I HAD, AS YOU SEE, I, I HAD VERY, YEAH, IT, IT, IT ALL LOOKED FINE.
UM, IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, DO RIGHT BY PEOPLE.
DO RIGHT BY THE BUILDING, DO RIGHT BY THE LANDS AND THEN YOU'RE FINE.
NEED TO HAVE AN ACRE AND A HALF.
OH, FOR A BED AND BREAKFAST PLAN.
OH, THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM, OR NO, SORRY.
MINIMUM LATTE SIZE FOR BED AND BREAKFAST.
NO, ASSOCIATED USES HALF AN ACRE.
SO THE ON GRAND AVENUE WANTED TO BE THAT IN BREAKFAST HOME.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR CHANGES THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE HERE? SHOULD WE FOCUS ON THIS OR ARE WE ALL HAPPY WITH IT AS IT STANDS? OKAY.
AND CEMETERIES BEING SPELLED CORRECTLY.
UM, CEMETERIES, WE HAD RECENTLY CHANGED AT LEAST SINCE RIGHT.
BECAUSE OF, BECAUSE OF THE THREE.
IT WAS DYNAMIC LIFE AND THEY WANTED TO BURY HIM AT THE SITE, BUT THEY HAD R THREE, I THINK R THREE ZONING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THEY REQUESTED A TEXT AMENDMENT, HAD TO CREATE A NEW CEMETERY.
CEMETERY, BUT LIMITED TO ONE GRADE.
I THINK THAT IN HERE SOMEHOW IT HAPPENED FOR MONTHS.
BECAUSE IT WASN'T A, IT WASN'T A FREEZER IN THEIR GARAGE.
LAST WINTERS WHAT WE, YOU HELPED ME WRITE.
SO, BUT I, WE ONLY LIT DID IT IN R THREE, RIGHT? YEAH.
WE MADE IT AS NARROW AS WE COULD.
WE REALLY DID IT JUST FOR THIS ONE SITUATION BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER CEMETERIES WE HAVE.
[01:25:01]
BUT HOW DOES THIS AFFECT LIKE FAMILY SERVICE CEMETERY ON YOUR PARK? THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S AG.I DON'T THINK YOU CAN IN THAT'S AG.
UM, GIVEN TIMEFRAMES ALL OVER AND THE SHORT TERM RENTAL CODE WE EXERCISE OUT WELL.
BUT I, I DID HAVE A SUGGESTION THAT SHORT TERM RENTALS, THE NEXT ONE? YES.
INOPERATIVE DON'T, DON'T HAVE TRASH LINE AROUND ESSENTIALLY.
THOSE ARE THE DANIEL SECTIONS FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT.
SHORT TERM RENTALS THAT TOUCH YOU.
I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT IS 12.
SHOULD WE JUST CHANGE IT WITH A ONE TIME APPLICATION FEE SHALL BE AS ACCORDING TO WHATEVER INSTEAD OF HAS WRITTEN SCHEDULE.
I WOULD TELL YOU WHAT IT'S, IS THERE ANY OF THE WORDING WE NEED OR IT'S JUST IN THE FEE SCHEDULE? YEAH.
THIS PART WAS SOMETHING THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT JUST A LITTLE WHILE AGO.
AND IT WAS ACTUALLY THE LAST, UH, THE LAST ONE BECAUSE SHE HAD FOUR BEDROOMS, NO MORE THAN 10 PEOPLE.
AND IT'S LIKE, WELL IF YOU PUT TWO BUNK BEDS IN A ROOM AND LIKE THE KIDS SLEEP IN THERE.
IS THAT THAT BIG OF A DEAL? UM, WELL ACTUALLY IT DOES SAY UNLESS APPROVED BY COUNCIL.
SO IF THEY'RE SAYING THEY WANT MORE, THEN THEY CAN ASK FOR MORE.
THEY ASKED THE COUNCIL IF THEY HAVE 10.
UH, THE WORKING, THEY JUST HAD THE WORKING GROUP ON IT.
THEY HAVEN'T GONE THE FINAL DRIVEWAY PARKING, YOU NEED TO SAY OFFICER.
UM, THIS IS E DRIVE AFFIDAVIT PARKING.
DO WE NEED TO STIPULATE ON, ON STREET PARKING? I THINK THEY WANTED PARKING.
THIS IS, WE REMOVED PARKING STANDARD REMOVED THAT, DIDN'T THEY? WE ALREADY REMOVED THAT THERE.
NO VISIBLE EVIDENCE OF THE CONDUCT OF SHORT TERM.
IS THAT STILL AROUND E? UH, WHAT IS NOW E BUT WAS F SO IF YOU PUT UP A SIDE SAYING SERENITY COTTAGE OR SOMETHING, IS THAT CONSIDERED AN, WELL THAT'S JUST CALLING OUTTA COTTAGE, BUT THE UM, THE ONE THAT'S ON MAIN STREET, THEY'RE THERE.
THEY HAVE THAT SIDE DOOR OR THE DOOR THAT'S ONE OF THE ENTRANCES TO THE UPSTAIRS.
AND IT SAYS WELCOME TO OUR AIRBNB AS LITTLE SIGN IN THE GLASS OF THAT, OF THAT DOOR FACING MAIN STREET.
OH THAT THE END ON BLUE RIDGE? YEAH.
RIGHT AT RIGHT AFTER BLUE RIDGE.
IT'S THE UM, THAT OH, IT'S THE, UM, YEAH, IT'S WHERE THEY'RE DOING THE RESTAURANT DOWNSTAIRS WHERE THEY REFURBISH THE BUILDING.
OH, MAIN STREET, BLUE RIDGE AND MAIN.
IT'S ON THE CORNER OF BLUE RIDGE AND MAIN.
I DON'T KNOW ANY OTHER YELLOW ONE.
BUT SO WOULD THAT COUNT, BECAUSE I'M OKAY WITH THAT TO KIND OF, SO PEOPLE AREN'T WANDERING AROUND WITH THEIR BAGS AND THEIR LOCK.
OR GOING INTO THE RESTAURANT BEING LIKE, OH RIGHT.
SO DO WE WANT TO HAVE A WINE IN HERE? BECAUSE I AGREE WITH YOU.
AND WHAT I WOULD HATE TO SEE IS THEN THAT COMMON SENSE DIRECTION THAT THEY TOOK BE PUNISHED IF SOMEONE SAYS THEY DON'T LIKE IT.
I MEAN YOU COULD GET RID OF THAT BECAUSE TOO, IF ANYONE'S GONNA PUT UP A SIGN, THEY'RE GONNA NEED TO GET ZONING APPROVAL FOR THAT SIGN OUTSIDE OF THIS ANYWAYS.
UM, AND PROBABLY, WELL THE OTHER SIDE OF IT.
I THINK THE ONE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TOO HAS A QR CODE ON IT.
I DON'T THINK IT'S A SIGN ADVERTISING.
BUT THIS, THIS, AS IT SAYS IT STATES, UH, IT'S WRITTEN OUT JUST AS EVIDENCE.
WHICH IS THAT THAT'S ON THE INSIDE WINDOW.
AND THIS SAYS ON THE OUTSIDE APPEARANCE OF THE PROPERTY OUTSIDE APPEARANCE.
SO, SO THE FACT THAT YOU CAN SEE IT ENOUGH TO SOME PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO DISTURB.
[01:30:01]
RIGHT.A LOT OF THOSE, I THINK THE INTENTS GOOD.
THAT'S WHY MY HESITATION TO REMOVE THE ENTIRELY GAME FROM, BUT I THINK IT MAKES SENSE.
I DON'T LIKE REFERENCING SPECIFIC ITERATIONS OF THE UNIFORM BUILDING CODE BECAUSE IT CHANGES EVERY TWO YEARS AND IT IS UNNECESSARY TO HAVE TO CHANGE THIS EVER CHANGE.
SO JUST IDENTIFIED IN THE CURRENT VERSION CURRENT WERE ADOPTED.
WOULD IT BE THE MOST RECENT? WE SAY I THINK WE DIDN'T WE SAY THE MOST RECENT YEAH.
IN SOMETHING ELSE IN THE MOST RECENT CURRENT CURRENT SCHOOL.
MORE IDENTIFIED IN THE CURRENT VERSION OF THE INFORMED STATE ABOVE.
AND THEN I THINK BECAUSE YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ADUS COMING.
UM, AND WELL MAYBE, UM, IF WE, IF THEY ARE PERMITTED, WHAT WE DON'T WANT IS THAT BOTH WOULD BE TURNED INTO A SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
COUNSEL DIDN'T ASK FOR YOU TO PROHIBIT ONE OR THE OTHER BECOMING A SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
BUT I THINK ONE OF 'EM NEEDS TO SAY NO MORE THAN ONE SHORT-TERM RENTAL SHALL OCCUR ON ANY PROPERTY AT THE SAME TIME.
AND I THINK LIKE THE WAY WE WOULD DO IT IS WE WOULD ONLY GIVE THEM ONE SUP FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL ON THAT PROPERTY.
AN EXTERNAL A DU AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THE MAIN HOUSE, LIKE THE MAIN HOUSE, RIGHT? MM-HMM
I DON'T SEE US GIVING AN SUP FOR BOTH.
IT WOULD JUST BE BECAUSE ONE IS, ONE IS THE PRIMARY USE IN EFFECT ALREADY, SO MM-HMM
THERE, THE SUV'S TIED TO THE PROPERTY.
BUT IF THERE'S TWO, NOT THE STRUCTURES, BUT IF THERE'S TWO STRUCTURES, HOW ARE WE DELINEATING OR HOW ARE WE DIFFERENTIATING? I THINK THAT COULD BE A CONDITION OF THE SU.
BUT HAVING THIS IN HERE MAKES IT SO THEY DON'T EVEN BOTHER PAYING THE FEE FOR IT AND JUST TO BE TOLD NO.
AND THAT WAY WHEN THEY COME IN AND LIKE, LET'S SAY THEIR NEW PROPERTY OWNER OR SOMETHING AND THEY JUST, THEY CHECK MM-HMM
WE EVEN SEE, OKAY, THIS PROPERTY HAS AN DOMESTIC MM-HMM
BUT IF THEY WANTED TO VOID ONE AND DO THE OTHER RIGHT.
SO COUNCIL PLAN CONDITION THAT ONLY THE PRIMARY DWELLING WOULD BE USED AS THE, OR THE SHORT TERM RENTAL.
AND THEY WANTED TO CHANGE THAT, THAT WOULD REQUIRE DOMESTIC.
ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS SECTION? THERE IS, LET'S SEE.
WELL, OUTDOOR, DO WE WANT OUTDOOR BRANDING ALLOWED ON SHORT TERM RENTAL PROPERTIES? BARBECUE? DOES THAT COUNT AS UH, YES.
I'M THINKING LIKE BURN BARRELS,
THERE'S ONE OTHER THING I WANT TO TRY TO DO THIS THAT HERE AT THE
I DIDN'T STICK IT IN HERE 'CAUSE IT WAS KIND OF AT THE LAST MINUTE.
I WAS TRYING TO COMMUNICATE WITH, UH, LAUREN A. LITTLE BIT ON IT.
BUT I'LL, I'LL BRING IT AS A POSSIBILITY TO CONSIDER AND GET IT UP THE, WHERE IS IT? CHECK POINTS.
UM, WE DON'T, I DIDN'T SAY I WOULDN'T BE IN HERE AT ALL.
I, I SAID THE WRONG, WHAT I HAVE IS, LET ME JUST HAND THIS OUT.
IF YOU WANNA RESEND IT TO ME, I CAN PUT IT BACK UP.
SEND BACK AND LET ME FIND IT HERE REAL QUICK AND SEND IT.
[01:35:02]
DO YOU WANT TO ADD THAT IN ABOVE 8.5? A COUPLE THINGS THAT WHAT, SHORT TERM TRIP? YEAH.WILL WE SEND THIS TO YOU, CONNIE? OKAY.
AS SOON AS I GET THIS SENT OUT, I WILL KEY.
THE, THE IDEA BEHIND THIS IS EVERY TIME THAT WE GO TO DO A SHORT TERM RENTAL, THAT, THAT WE HAVE THE SAME DISCUSSION OVER AND OVER AGAIN SAYING, WELL, HOW MANY IS ON THIS BLOCK? DOES IT REALLY, UH, WHAT, WHAT CRITERIA, HOW MANY IS TOO MANY IN TOWN? WHAT, SO WHAT, WHAT ARE WE WORKING AGAINST? WHAT'S STANDARD? SO WE'RE SUBJECTIVE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND AGAIN.
SO THE IDEA BEHIND THIS TABLE IS TO TRY TO SET SOME SORT OF STANDARD, WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH WHEN, WHAT IS TOO MUCH MM-HMM
THAT, THAT'S THE IDEA BEHIND THIS.
I HADN'T COME THROUGH YET IN THE CEILING.
I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T GET THE WHOLE, I DON'T GET SOME OF THE OUTRAGE ABOUT THE SHORT TERM RENTALS.
WE HAVE NOT HAD ANY, YOU KNOW, THESE AREN'T PROPERTIES THAT AREN'T BEING MAINTAINED.
SO IF WE HAVEN'T HAD HARD, LIKE IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT AN OUTRAGE, IT'S A MATTER OF STOPPING THE DISCUSSION IN THE FIRST PLACE.
BECAUSE NOW IT'S NOT SUBJECTED.
WE, WE HAVEN'T HIT THE THRESHOLD.
WE'RE ALLOWED SO MANY PER BLOCK.
WE'RE ALLOWED SO MANY PER AREA THAT WHERE THERE'S A DENSITY, WE DON'T EXCEED 3% OF THE TOTAL RENTAL UNITS, THEN IT'S NOT GONNA BE A BURDEN.
BUT, BUT, BUT TEXTBOOK WISE, IF 5% OF YOUR RENTAL UNITS ARE SHORT TERM RENTALS, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.
SO INSTEAD OF 3% THAT THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT, THOSE ARE JUST SORT OF THOUGHTS.
NOW, NOW EVERY TIME A SHORT TERM RENTAL COMES ALONG, WE'D HAVE A CRITERIA TO WORK AGAIN.
BUT IF, IF, IF YOU GUYS AREN'T INTERESTED IN THAT.
NO, I THINK THAT'S REALLY GOOD.
'CAUSE I THINK SOME OF THE OUTRAGEOUS PRECISELY NOT KNOWING AND IF IT TENDS TO BE, IT, IT, YEAH, NO, YOU'RE RIGHT.
AND THE PERCEPTION IS THAT IT, IT DRIVES PERMANENT HOMEOWNERS OUT OF THE MARKET.
SO WE HAVE HAVE 27 OF 'EM THAT ARE PERMITTED RIGHT NOW.
BUT MOST CITY COUNCIL ON MONDAY, WE HAVE 27 OUT OF LIKE 6,700 ISH.
I THINK PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT.
AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK THAT THIS COMMUNICATING THAT WOULD BE EXTREMELY HELPFUL TO PEOPLE, FOR PEOPLE TO WRITE STUFF.
SO WHAT, WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO, SO I DID, UM, AGAIN, THE NUMBERS IN HERE I'D HAVE TO GET FROM YOU LAUREN.
'CAUSE I, I DON'T KNOW THESE EXACT NUMBERS.
I WAS, I WAS SUR SUR SURVIVING HOW MANY RENTALS WERE AND SO ON, WHICH IS FOR THE SAKE OF IT.
AND UH, SO I WAS SETTING 3% OF TOTAL DWELLING UNITS.
AND I WAS GUESSING WITH A 195 PERMITS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF RENTALS THAT WERE IN THE HOUSE, IN THE TOWN, OR NUMBER OF DWELLINGS, AT 2.5% WOULD BE THE POINT WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE ADDITIONAL SCRUTINY.
IT WAS THE IDEA NEIGHBORHOOD SATURATION.
SO ONE STR PER EIGHT HOMES WITHIN 500 FEET OR 12% OF BLOCK FACE OF THOSE FACING ON A PARTICULAR BLOCK THAT GOES ALONG.
THERE'S JUST WAYS OF LIMIT LIMITING THOSE.
AND THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO DISCUSS TO SEE WHAT YOU GUYS THOUGHT OF USING THIS AS A CRITERIA.
'CAUSE IT, IT'S, IT'S SETTING STANDARDS.
BUT NOW WHEN IT COMES ALONG, IF WE, IF THIS SOMETHING LIKE THIS COMES ALONG, I WANT SPECIAL USE PERMIT, MAY LOOK AND SAY, LOOK, YOU ALREADY HAVE TWO ON YOUR BLOCK.
THERE'S ONLY A HOUSE BETWEEN YOU AND THIS THE NEXT ONE.
NO, I'M AFRAID IT'S JUST NOT GONNA WORK.
OR, BUT HOW IS THAT A, HOW IS THAT AN IMPACT TO THE HEALTH, SAFETY, WELFARE OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD? BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE A PROPERTY THAT HAS HIGH TURNOVER, THEN YES, THE PROPERTY ITSELF MAY BE MAINTAINED, BUT YOU'RE HAVING A CONSTANT CHANGE OF WHO'S IN THERE, A LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, AND THEN A LACK OF INTEGRATION FOR THOSE RESIDENTS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY.
AND THAT LACK OF INTEGRATION CAN INTRODUCE SAFETY ISSUES.
YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE AND THEY'RE CONSTANTLY CHANGING.
UM, I GREW UP NEXT DOOR TO A RENTAL PROPERTY WHERE, I MEAN, IT WAS OBVIOUSLY VERY DIFFERENT.
IT WASN'T THIS, BUT THEY WERE CHANGING HANDS ALL THE TIME.
AND MY FOLKS WERE NERVOUS YEAH.
AND SO I THINK THAT'S THE IDEA WITH THIS.
I JUST, MY EXPERIENCE WHEN I'VE LIVED HERE IN TOWN, SO LONG TERM RENTERS WERE THE PROBLEM NEXT DOOR.
AND THEN WHEN IT BECAME A SHORT TERM RENTAL, IT WAS LIKE A BREATH OF PRESSURE.
SO IT JUST, I THINK IT JUST, EVERYONE'S PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IS DIFFERENT BASICALLY.
AND, AND THEN JUST ADDING A COUPLE OTHER TRIGGERS IN HERE ABOUT, UM,
[01:40:01]
UH, IF WE GET TO A SITUATION WHERE LONG-TERM, UH, VACANCY IN TOWN, LONG-TERM RENTAL VACANCY IN TOWN IS LESS THAN 5%, THEN WE COULD SUSPEND ANY NEW SHORT-TERM RENTALS UNTIL THAT'S RESOLVED.AND THAT WAS JUST ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE THOUGHT PROCESS IN THERE.
UM, UH, I THINK THE NEIGHBORHOOD SATURATION WOULDN'T COME.
DID YOU COME UP WITH YEAH, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S FASCINATING.
SO ANYWAY, THIS, THIS IS AN IDEA AND I WANTED TO RUN IT BY YOU GUYS, BUT ADMITTEDLY I DIDN'T PUT THIS THING TOGETHER UNTIL THIS MORNING.
SO I MEAN ONE PER EIGHT, I MEAN, I LIKE IT.
'CAUSE THEN ON, THERE'S A REALITY TO WHICH IF YOU ACTUALLY MET THAT CAP OF ONE PER EIGHT WITHIN A CERTAIN AREA, THAT'S PRETTY DENSE YEAH.
BUT IT ALSO THEN ALLOWS THIS LIMITATION SO THAT YOU DON'T GO MORE THAN THAT 12% IN A CERTAIN AREA.
SO BACK TO, I THINK FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, BACK TO THE HEALTH SAFETY WELFARE ISSUE IS ONE, HOW MANY DO WE HAVE? 20 SOMETHING.
AND HAVE THERE BEEN ANY ISSUES? CAN WE SAY, YES, WE'VE HAD ENFORCEMENT ISSUES OR COMPLAINTS ABOUT THIS PERCENTAGE OR IN THIS PARTICULAR, THEY'VE BEEN VERY GOOD AT FOLKS.
SO HOW DO WE DEFEND THAT? I THINK, UM, IF THE ISSUE IS SHOWING THAT WE DO HAVE, WE CAN SHOW THE PUBLIC YES, THIS IS HOW MANY WE HAVE.
AND THEY'RE AT THESE LOCATIONS.
YOU HAVE A MAP THAT SAYS THERE'S HERE, HERE, HERE, AND HERE.
THERE'S ONLY ONE ON WITHIN TWO BLOCKS OF THIS SPECIFIC ADDRESS RIGHT HERE.
THEREFORE WE'RE WE'RE INCLINED TO APPROVE IT.
'CAUSE THERE'S NOTHING SAYING THAT WE SHOULDN'T.
AND, AND, AND THAT, AND I DON'T THINK WE'VE HAD A, AT LEAST RECENTLY, I DON'T, I CAN'T THINK OF A PROPERTY MAINTENANCE COMPLAINT THAT WE HAD THAT WASN'T A LONG TERM RENTAL AND IT WASN'T THE TENANT THAT JUST GOT, YOU KNOW, EVICTED OR RIGHT.
OR THEY'RE ABOUT TO GET EVICTED.
AND, AND PART OF WE, WHAT WE DEAL WITH IS NOT ONLY REALITY, BUT PERCEPTION.
O OVER AND OVER AGAIN, WE HAVE THE, UM, PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD COMING IN OR SHORT TERM RENTALS COME IN NEXT DOOR.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE CRIME AND TRASH AND PARTIES.
PEOPLE THINKING THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN FAIRFAX AND THEN YOU BUY A HOUSE OUT HERE THAT YOU'RE BAD.
LIKE, THAT'S NOT, SO BY HAVING STANDARDS LIKE THIS THOUGH, SAYING ABOUT IF IT'S A CONSTANT NUISANCE, THEN IT WOULD BE KNOWING THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY NUISANCE PROBLEMS NOW THAT ADDRESSES THAT COMMUNITY CONCERN BEFORE WE EVER GET THERE.
WELL, THAT'S WHAT I THINK, WELL, SORRY, GO AHEAD.
I WAS JUST GONNA SAY THE PERCEPTION ISSUE, UH, I THINK THAT LIKE A TABLE LIKE THIS WILL SHOW, UM, THE PEOPLE UP FRONT ROYAL THAT WE ARE KEEPING THINGS IN MIND.
AS THINGS STAND NOW ALL THEY SEE IS LIKE, OH, THIS IS JUST, YOU KNOW, A CHALLENGE TRYING TO GET, YOU KNOW, MORE MONEY IN, IN AT OUR EXPENSE.
I HEARD SOMEBODY MAKE A COMMENT ABOUT THAT.
RIGHT OR WRONG, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
THIS REALLY KIND OF, IT TAKES, I THINK THE, THE, THE PASSION OFF THE TABLE HERE ARE THE NUMBERS.
AND I THINK THE OTHER THING THAT THIS ALSO SHOWS, LIKE YOU MADE THAT POINT ABOUT WE DO WANNA ALLOW FOR SOME TO ENCOURAGE TOURISTS.
UH, AND I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT BECAUSE FROM THE TOURISM THEN WE DON'T HAVE HOTELS HERE IN TOWN LIMITS THAT MOST PEOPLE WANNA STAY AT.
UM, SO THAT'S WHERE I THINK, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS GONNA BOX US IN TO SOME DEGREE TOO MUCH IN SOME WAY.
IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT, BUT I FEEL LIKE THIS LEVEL OF TRANSPARENCY AGAIN, UNDERSCORES OR IT REVEALS THE THOUGHT PROCESS THAT THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, ZONING PLANNING TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION.
SO SOMETHING LIKE THIS YOU'D LIKE TO INCLUDE, ALTHOUGH WE'LL GET LAUREN TO FIX THE NUMBERS TO WHATEVER THE REAL ONES ARE.
I THINK THIS IS A VERY NICE, I THINK
SO THIS, THIS WOULD BE ADDED IN AS 8.4 0.1.
BUT YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T CAP THE NUMBER OF LONG-TERM RENTALS AND WE'RE UP OVER 50% OF UNITS IN TOWN OR IN RENTAL STOCK.
I THINK WHEN WE DID THE COMP PLAN AND WE, UM, RAN THE METRICS THEY USED LIKE THE ESRI BUSINESS, NO ANALYST OR WHATEVER, WE CAME BACK TO SOMETHING LIKE 51% OF UNITS ARE BEING USED AS RENTALS.
WE CAN'T CAP THE SHORT, BUT WE CAN REGULATE THEM.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE IS NOT SET, IT, IT, IT IS BEING REG BEING REGULATED.
IT WOULD BE INTERESTING AND FROM A STAFF PERSPECTIVE, THESE AREN'T A PROBLEM.
LIKE THESE ARE NOT BEEN A PROBLEM AT ALL OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE SAME CONVERSATION EVERY TIME.
THAT THAT'S WHAT I MEAN, WE GO THROUGH THIS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, IS THEN WHY DON'T WE LONG TERM RENTALS, WHY DON'T WE ASK STAFF TO PROVIDE A MAP OR A NUMBER
[01:45:01]
OR ACCOUNT OR WHAT'S THE CLOSEST ONE TO THIS ADDRESS? HOW FAR DURING THE COURT IF WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE THIS? THEY'D HAVE TO, BECAUSE HOW MANY PER, YOU KNOW, FACING PER BLOCK AND THINGS LIKE THAT.SO THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THE STAFF WOULD HAVE TO SUPPLY OR SOMEONE APPLIED FOR IT.
THEY COME IN AND THEY SAY, AND THEY KNOW THEY HAVE ONE, TWO, IF WE ADOPTED THIS AND THEY KNEW THEY HAD ONE, IT WAS TOO CLOSE, THEY'D KNOW RIGHT AWAY THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO IT.
OR STAFF WOULD HAVE TO PROVE THAT THEY AREN'T IN VIOLATION OF, THEY'RE FAR ENOUGH AWAY WITH THIS KIND OF, AND YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD A COUPLE APPLICATIONS OF PEOPLE THAT BOUGHT THE HOLE NOW BECAUSE THEY'RE PLANNING ON RETIRING AND 10 TO FIVE OR 10 YEARS OR WHATEVER.
AND IT'S LIKE, ALL RIGHT, LET'S BUY IT BEFORE THE INTEREST RATES WENT QUITE CRAZY, BUT, AND THEN RENT IT OUT AS SHORT TERM RENTAL.
AND SO I GUESS IS YOUR QUESTION OR YOUR COMMENT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IF YOU HAD TWO PEOPLE ON A BLOCK WHO BOTH WANTED TO MAKE A SHORT TERM RENTAL, IS THAT A PROBLEM? DOES THIS UNNECESSARILY RESTRICT THOSE PEOPLE? IS THAT WHAT YOU, IT IT DOES PUT RESTRICTIONS.
THAT'S, THAT'S PART YOU HAVE TO DETERMINE.
IS THIS TOO RESTRICTIVE OF LIKE THE, THE ONES ON BLOCK FACING, YOU KNOW, OF HOW, HOW CLOSE THEY HAVE TO BE RIGHT NOW? WE HAVE NO RESTRICTIONS.
IT'S OBVIOUSLY CASE BY CASE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE SEP IS.
BUT I THINK THAT WE'RE JUST REGULATING AN ISSUE THAT ISN'T THERE YET AT THIS POINT ANYWAY.
NO PROBLEMS. THERE'S, IT'S IN THEIR TWENTIES.
UM, I THINK IF WE JUST ASK, WE SIMPLY SAY, HEY, COULD YOU TELL US HOW CLOSE THE, THE CLOSEST SHORT TERM RENTAL IS? WELL, I SEE WHAT, SHOW US ON THE MAP OR SOMETHING.
THAT WAY WE CAN SHOW THE PUBLIC AND WE CAN SHOW US WHEN WE'RE MAKING THAT DECISION.
WELL THAT COULD BE PART OF OUR PRESENTATION.
BUT IT MIGHT MAKE IT SUBJECTIVE THEN AGAIN, BECAUSE ON ONE BLOCK HE'S, THERE ARE ONLY TWO HOUSES AWAY.
AND, AND WHOEVER'S SITTING ON THE COMMISSION AT THAT TIME SAYS, OH, THAT'S FAR HOUR TOO CLOSE.
THE NEXT, NEXT ONE'S SAYING, SURE.
I THINK THERE'S A PRETTY EVEN DISTRIBUTION THROUGHOUT TOWN.
WELL, AND I WOULD'VE THOUGHT YOU'D SEE A MORE IN LIKE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT MM-HMM
BUT, UM, BUT THAT, THAT'S HOW IT IS.
AND THERE'S A LOT OUT THERE THAT WE DON'T EVEN KNOW.
NO, I DON'T EVEN, I KNOW RIGHT NOW THAT'S YOU GO AIRBNB AND YOU'RE JUST LIKE, YOU DON'T HAVE A PERMIT.
SO DO, DO WE WANT, IS THE, WE DO NOT WANT TO TRY TO DO THAT NEIGHBORHOOD SATURATION.
IS THAT WHAT WE'RE HEARING? LEMME THINK I THINK ABOUT IT.
BUT I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY AT LEAST THINK ABOUT IT.
I MEAN, IT'S A, IT'S A GREAT IDEA, BUT I PERSONALLY DON'T SEE THAT THERE'S A PROBLEM AT THIS POINT.
NO, THERE'S NOT A PROBLEM AT THIS POINT.
IT'S, IT IS, IT IS GREAT FORETHOUGHT.
IT'S BE AND AND ALSO A PERCEPTION FOR, FOR THE OWNERS KNOWING THAT WHAT THE LIMITATION IS WHAT ABOUT 3% TOWN WIDE CAP.
UH, THAT WAS, I THINK THAT, I THINK THAT'S, THAT AS YOU'RE SAYING IS JUST IN THE TEXTBOOKS, IF YOU'RE GOING ABOVE 5% IS YOU'RE IN TROUBLE.
I THAT SOMETHING TO KEEP OH, THREE 3%.
AND BY HAVING JUST SOMETHING WRITTEN IN HERE, SOME FORM OF A TABLE, UM, I, I ABSOLUTELY GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF THE SATURATION.
UH, BUT HAVING SOMETHING, IT IS SOMETHING WE COULD SAY, HEY, YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO SEEM TO THINK THAT WE HAVE HUNDREDS UPON THOUSANDS OF THESE.
UH, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE RESTRICTIONS.
UH, AND WE CURRENTLY HAVE 26 NOW WE HAVE THIS ONE ON THE TABLE LOOKING FORWARD THROUGH THAT.
SO, SO SINCE WE ARE THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WE'RE PLANNING AHEAD
WELL, I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF POSSIBLY IF WE HAVE THESE SHORT TERM RENTALS, WE SHOULD MAKE IT PART OF THE PACKAGE OF PUTTING UP THERE, THIS LITTLE MAP SAYING THIS IS ACTUALLY WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW AND THIS IS HOW IT'S DISPERSED FROM A SAFETY STANDPOINT.
I WOULD BE SLIGHTLY CONCERNED PUTTING ON A PUBLIC FACING MAP OF ALL THE HOMES WHERE I DON'T HAVE SOMEONE LIVING THERE ALL THE TIME.
UH, WELL THAT'S THE RISK YOU TAKE.
THAT'S A RISK
UM, I HADN'T EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT THAT POINT, BUT THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
I, I LIKE THE NEIGHBORHOOD SATURATION WHEN THE PERSON, OKAY.
BUT I, I, BUT HE HAS AN ISSUE, SO I, I GUESS WE WILL GO WITH WHAT, WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOODS ACTUALLY JUST LEAVE IT, TAKE IT OUT, BRING IT BACK AND TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN.
LET'S TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN IN THE MEANWHILE, LET'S TALK TO OUR NEIGHBORS ABOUT IT.
I MEAN, I THINK FOR ME, MY BIGGEST MOTIVATOR, EVEN TO LEAVE THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD SATURATION LIMIT IN IS REALLY MORE FOR PERCEPTION,
[01:50:01]
BUT TO ADDRESS PERCEPTION AND THE CONCERN THAT IT'S POSSIBLE THAT PLANNING IN THE TOWN DOES NOT HAVE ITS PEOPLE'S BEST INTEREST AT HEART.BUT THERE ARE OTHER WAYS OF ADDRESSING THAT, RIGHT.
SO I, THE ONLY THING WITH AN EXAGGERATION IS THAT I WANT US TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT UNDULY PUNISHING SOMEBODY'S JUST A HOMEOWNER CAME BACK TO THE GAME OR SOMETHING.
THE EXAMPLE THAT YOU GAVE, JUST THOUGHT.
SO I, I LIKE THE IDEA OF IT, THE IDEA BEHIND IT.
I, I, I REALLY LIKE, IT'S IT IN APPLICATION.
WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS THIS COULD GO AND HOW COULD THAT HELP OR HARM CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS? WE COULD, WE COULD BUILD IN A DATA AT WHICH IT WOULD BECOME EFFECTIVE.
IT MAY BE LIKE, SAY SIX MONTHS FROM SUCH AND SUCH A DATE, IT'LL GO INTO EFFECT, WHICH WOULD GIVE PEOPLE WHO WERE THINKING OF BUYING A HOUSE, YOU KNOW, TIMES, ASSUMING THEIR REALTOR KNOW TO LOOK AT THIS
LET'S THINK ABOUT, OKAY, LET'S THINK ABOUT THAT.
BECAUSE TOO, I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING STOPPING US AT SOME POINT.
LIKE, IF WE NEED TO PUT OUT LIKE A NOTICE TO THE PUBLIC, LIKE, HEY, JUST FYI, HERE'S THE SITUATION WITH SHORT TERM RENTALS.
YOU KNOW, IT COULD GO, AND BY THE WAY, WE'RE NOT SURE, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU COULD GO INTO THE MONTHLY FEDERAL CHARTER, THE SUMMIT TABLE IN THE TOWN HALL, NEXT TIME WE GO TO A TOWN TALK WITH MICRO MCCO OR SOMETHING.
I DON'T, BUT THERE'S WAYS TO GET INFORMATION OUT THERE, RIGHT? MM-HMM
FOR, FOR RIGHT NOW, JUST FOR ARGUMENT'S SAKE, I'M GONNA JUST GO AHEAD AND REMOVE IT WHEN PUT IT BACK IN.
I'LL TAKE IT OUT AND THEN WE'LL GET THE CORRECT NUMBERS.
UM, THE TOP TWO LINES ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT, RIGHT? TO ME MM-HMM
AND THERE'S A, THERE'S A CERTAIN LEVEL AND THE LAST, THE LAST THREE LINES ARE GOING PROTECTION AND PERCEPTION OF PROTECTION OF THE PUBLIC.
I JUST WANTED TO BRING THAT, SORRY, IT WAS IN LATE IN THE GAME, BUT IT WAS NO, THIS IS GOOD.
YEAH, IT'S A LOVELY, AND WE'LL GO BACK TO THE OTHER ONE.
DO YOU MIND EMAILING THAT TO US? OH, SURE.
I'LL, I'LL SEND IT OUT TO EVERYBODY.
LET'S SEE, WHERE ARE WE HOME? EIGHT, FIVE.
SO TWO MORE PAGES AND WE'RE DONE.
THE HOME OCCUPATIONS ARE, WE CAN PULL THAT OUT FOR A COUPLE.
ALWAYS DOES THE HOME OCCUPATIONS.
UM, THE ONLY ISSUE WE'VE HAD ABOUT WITH THIS ONE,
UM, BUT I THINK THAT THE LANGUAGE ON A IS STRONG ENOUGH THEN IT SHOULD BE CLEARLY INCIDENTAL TO THE PRINCIPAL USE.
UM, WHAT I PUT ON C THERE, THAT CHANGE WAS AS A RESULT OF, UM, LISTENING TO THE CASES COME ACROSS WHERE THINGS WERE WANDERING OUT OF THE BUILDING, BUT WE HAVE IT, THEN IT HAS TO BE DETAINED WITHIN THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.
NO OUTDOOR DISPLAY, ET CETERA.
NOW, UM, REMIND ME WHEN WE SAY CLEARLY INCIDENTAL TO THE PRINCIPLE USE OF THE PROPERTY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT MEANS THAT THE PRINCIPAL USE IS THERE TO BE, IT'S YOUR HOME.
IT'S YOUR RESIDENCE, IT'S WHERE YOU LIVE.
HYPOTHETICALLY, YOU SHOULD NOT BE CONDUCTING LIKE MASSIVE FARMING OPERATIONS ON A RESIDENTIAL PARCEL.
THERE SHOULD NOT BE 50 PLUS ANIMALS PARCEL, BUT INCIDENTAL DOES THAT MEAN JUST LIKE, IT, IT, IT OTHERWISE APPEARS IN THE RESIDENTIAL IT WASN'T.
LIKE IT NEEDS TO, WHEN SOMEBODY DRIVES BY, THEY SHOULD SEE A HOUSE.
THEY SHOULD NOT BE IN MAYBE SOME ACCESSORY STRUCTURES.
IT SHOULD NOT LOOK LIKE SOME COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL OR AGRICULTURAL OPERATION.
AND MOST OF THESE ARE ELECTRONIC COTTAGES.
ANYHOW, JUST INSIDE THAT WORD, INCIDENTAL IS, IS HORRIBLE.
GOES YOU WOULD SAY SUBORDINATE.
I LIKE SUBORDINATES BETTER THAN INCIDENTAL.
INCIDENTAL EVERY TIME, UM, WORD SAY THEY KEPT A, THEY, IT WAS JUST INCIDENTAL, BUT, AND IN ZONING WE USED TO SEE THAT WORD EVERY DAY, BUT MOST PEOPLE PROBABLY KNOW WHAT, I'M NOT SURE.
[01:55:01]
DON'T THINK THE WORDS ARE INTERCHANGEABLE.WHAT, WHAT IS, TO YOU, WHAT IS SUBORDINATE CHANGE? SUBORDINATE IS, UH, IS DEPENDENT ON AUTHORIZATION FROM ABOVE.
SO I, I THINK THERE'S, IT ACTUALLY DOES MAKE SENSE TO USE INCIDENTAL THEN BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S, IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE A CONCERN TO THE PRINCIPAL USE.
IF I HAVE MY, IF YOU HAVE YOUR FRONT OFFICE AND YOU'RE USING THAT AS A THERAPY OFFICE OR SOMETHING, IT'S NOT THEN TAKING AWAY FROM THE PRINCIPAL USE.
IT WOULD BE INCIDENTAL TO IT IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
LIKE, ONE OF THE, LIKE COMMON HOME OCCUPATIONS WILL HAVE IS LIKE A, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO CUT SOMEONE'S HAIR IN THEIR GARAGE MM-HMM
THEY'VE GOT LIKE, OR IN THEIR BASEMENT AND THEY'VE GOT LIKE ONE SEAT, ONE PERSON AT A TIME.
IT'S NOT ALL THE TIME, IT'S NOT ALL DAY.
UM, OR LIKE IF YOU JUST, IF YOU'RE USING PART OF YOUR GARAGE, YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A LITTLE BIT OF OFFICE SPACE, BUT YOU, AND YOU'VE GOT A BUSINESS LIKE THAT IS YOUR HOME OCCUPATION.
UM, BUT IT SHOULD NOT BE YOUR LIVELIHOOD TO, LIKE, YOU SHOULD BE MAKING MONEY OFF OF THE USE OF THE PROPERTY.
SO IN THE SPOT WHERE IT SAYS NO OUTDOOR DISPLAY SHALL BE PERMITTED, UH, THEN WE NEED TO CHANGE THE PERIOD TO A COMMA.
UM, OVER AT THE CORNER OF ACADEMY AND VIRGINIA, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO WRAP ANYBODY UP, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND
NO, I THOUGHT THAT WAS COMMERCIAL.
WHICH ARE WE TALKING ABOUT OUR THREE IN THAT AREA, I BELIEVE? WHAT ARE WE TALKING AT THE CORNER? IT IS, IT IS, UM, RELAX AND REVIVE RETINA MED SPOTS.
UM, WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT'S UNDER HOME OCCUPATION OR, YEAH, SO NO, THAT ONE UNDER R THREE, UM, NEAR THE OLD HOSPITAL THAT STRETCHER SHENANDOAH AVENUE IS R THREE.
SO OUR CODE PERMITS THOSE LIKE MEDICAL OFFICES.
PROFESSIONAL OFFICES IN R THREE ZONE.
I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND AS, 'CAUSE I I'VE DRIVEN BY THERE BEFORE AND IS WHAT POPPED IN MIND IS LIKE, DOES THIS FALL INTO REALLY, OH MY GOODNESS.
I GO BACK TO INCIDENTAL JUST FOR A MINUTE.
MY COULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE, THE USE MUST BE CLEARLY SECONDARY TO THE PROPERTY'S PRI PRIMARY RESIDENTIAL PURPOSE.
WHY WOULD YOU LIKE INCIDENTAL? INCIDENTAL? BECAUSE INCIDENTAL WAS USED TO ROUTE THIS CODE.
BUT ARE WE TALKING, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT INCIDENTAL TO AN AUTOMOBILE, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT INCIDENTAL TO A PIECE OF LAND, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT INCIDENTAL TO A BOX OF TOYS.
YOU KNOW, INCIDENTAL MEANS SOMETHING DIFFERENT EACH TIME THAT YOU USE THE WORD INCIDENTAL AND AS AN OVERALL MEANING SOMETHING LESS THAN THE PRIMARY USE.
BUT YOU END UP HAVING TO DEFINE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
IT LEAVES IT OPEN TO INTERPRETATION AND WATCHING PEOPLE TRIP OVER THAT WORD OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
AND THAT'S WHY I'M GOING BY THE EXPERIENCE.
AND THERE'S SOME RECENT EXPERIENCE WHERE INCIDENTAL, OH, THEY CAME INTO IT.
YOU HAPPEN TO WATCH THE, UM, UM, THE BZA MEETING AND, AND THAT INCIDENTAL WENT ALL OVER THE PLACE, YOU KNOW, AND HOW, AND WATCHING, WATCHING THE GROUP AND EACH PERSON IN THE GROUP COMING UP WITH THEIR OWN DEFINITION OF INCIDENTAL AND WHAT IT MEANT IN THAT PARTICULAR CASE.
SO FOR ME, I, I CAME OUTTA THERE WATCHING AND I SAID, WELL EITHER NEED TO CLEARLY STATE WHAT INCIDENTAL MEANS IN THAT APPLICATION, OR USE A DIFFERENT WORD OR USE SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD GET TO BRING ACROSS.
SO IF IT, UH, TO SAY SECONDARY OR, BUT SECONDARY IS DIFFERENT THAN INCIDENTAL.
BUT THAT'S WHY I'M STRUGGLING WITH CHAT.
SOME DATA CENTERS HERE, UH, INCIDENTAL REFERS TO A USE BUILDING OR ACTIVITY THAT IS SECONDARY, SUBORDINATE OR REASONABLY RELATED TO THE PRINCIPAL USE OF A PROPERTY.
WHEN YOU ASK IT TO LIKE SPECIFY LIKE INCIDENTAL IN VIRGINIA, UM, ANOTHER DEFINITION OF INCIDENTAL IS OCCURRING BY CHANCE.
IN CONNECTION WITH SOMETHING ELSE.
[02:00:01]
I, I, I PERSONALLY DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH IT.YOU DON'T USE, USE AN INTERPRETING INTERPRET.
THERE'S A FOUR PART STANDARD IN VIRGINIA BEACH, STANTON AND FAIRFAX.
IT MUST BE CLEARLY SMALLER IN AREA EXTENT AND PURPOSE IN THE PRINCIPAL USE CUSTOMARY CONNECTION.
IT MUST BE CUSTOMARILY FOUND IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE PRIMARY USE IN THAT SPECIFIC LOCALITY.
THE EXAMPLE IS SHED FOR A HOUSE BUT NOT A COMMERCIAL PANEL ON A SMALL RESIDENTIAL LOT, SAME OWNERSHIP AND LOT AND A FUNCTIONAL BENEFIT.
IT MUST CONTRIBUTE TO THE COMFORT CONVENIENCE FOR NECESSITY OF THE OCCUPANTS OR VISITORS OF THE PRINCIPAL.
SO, SO MAYBE FIX IT BY DEFINITION.
MAYBE JUST THROW IT IN THE DEFINITIONS LIST.
NO, THAT, THAT, THAT WOULD SOLVE IT.
PUT PUT A DEFINITION LIKE IN NORTH HAMPTON COUNTY, IT SAYS THEY USE INCIDENTAL, UM, WITH HOME OCCUPATIONS TO REMAIN INCIDENTAL.
MANY VIRGINIA COUNTIES LIMIT THE BUSINESS TO A SPECIFIC PERCENTAGE OF THE HOME FLOOR AREAS.
SO NORTHAMPTON COUNTY IS NO MORE THAN 45% OF THE FLOOR AREA IS CONSIDERED INCIDENTAL.
SO YOU GO OVER THAT, IT'S NO LONGER INCIDENTAL.
NO, THAT THAT'LL, THAT'LL BE WHAT I WAS THINKING ABOUT.
WE COULD FIX SOMETHING IN THE DEFINITION MM-HMM
BUT SHE WAS READING OFF THE DEFINITION LIKE, OH NO, THAT'S PERFECT.
CAN YOU, WHY DON'T YOU COPY CUT AND CUT AND PASTE THAT SOMEWHERE AND SAVE IT AND THEN WE JUST WON'T TELL ANYBODY WE HAVE A DEFINITION WRITTEN BY AI
NO, THAT'LL, THAT'LL SOLVE THE PROBLEM BECAUSE I WATCHING TRUE IT INTERESTING WATCHING THE DYNAMICS OF A GROUP TRYING TO DECIDE WHAT, WHAT THAT WORD MEANT IN THAT APPLICATION.
AND ANYWAY, I'LL I'LL SHUT UP NOW.
I PROMISE IT WAS ONLY ONE MORE PAGE IN MY LIFE.
WELL, THIS WAS A, THIS WAS IMPORTANT.
LIKE THAT WAS A, A BIG MEETING FOR US AND THAT WAS A REALLY IMPORTANT ISSUE.
THIS INCIDENTAL VERSUS, SO THIS, THIS'LL FIX THAT AGAIN.
WE'RE PLANNING COMMISSIONER PLANNING FOR FUTURE.
UM, THINK THESE PLANNING MEETINGS ARE WITH FOOTBALL, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU SAY, OH, THERE'S ONLY A MINUTE, 30 SECONDS LEFT, 30 BALL ON THE GROUND AND LOOK WORK
DEE IS JUST SAYING YOU CAN HAVE AN ETSY BUSINESS.
THIS WAS GETTING INTO TRYING TO QUANTIFY WHAT A HOME OCCUPATION CAN BE.
AND, AND, UH, THIS, AGAIN, YOU CAN COME UP WITH A LOT OF NUMBERS HERE AND, AND YOU CAN FIND A LOT OF NUMBERS IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT PLACES.
SO WHAT IS THE RIGHT NUMBER? OR THIS, I ADDED THIS CLEARLY MM-HMM
SO IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO HAVE IN HERE TO, TO SPECIFY IF THE HOME OCCUPATION CAN OCCUPY 80% OF YOUR PRIMARY DWELLING AND THEN THE PRIMARY DWELLING BECOMES INCIDENTAL TO THE BUSINESS.
I LIKE HAVING THAT PERCENTAGE.
I THINK THAT THAT HELPS US QUANTIFY BECAUSE LIKE FOR US IT WAS LIKE, OKAY, WELL WHEN YOU ASK FOR THREE PHASE POWER, THAT IS NO LONGER A RESIDENT USE.
SO BACK BACK TO THE WORD INCIDENTAL, WHEN DOES THAT BECOME THE, AT WHAT PERCENTAGE DOES IT BECOME A MAJOR USE RATHER THAN A MINOR USE OF THE PROPERTY? AND IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TOTAL FLOOR AREA, I MEAN WHERE, WHAT, HOW CAN I COULD SEE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIKE THEIR, THEIR HOBBY ROOM WHERE THEIR, THEIR BUSINESS ROOM IS WHERE THEY ARE PRIMARILY MAKING WHATEVER PRODUCTS THEY'RE SELLING, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY, PUT IN THE FRAME OF ETSY SHOP OR SOMETHING.
BUT THEY ALSO USE OTHER PARTS OF THEIR HOUSE.
OR LIKE ALL THE YARN IS KEPT IN THE BASEMENT.
HOW IS THAT 25%? THAT'S PART, THAT'S PART OF THE BUSINESS THEN IF IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH, IF, WHETHER YOU'RE, YOU'RE PUTTING IT TOGETHER MM-HMM
GLUING IT, STORING IT, THAT'S ALL PART OF THE BUSINESS THAT'S TAKEN UP THAT FOR THE IRS.
UM, SO WE'RE GONNA ACTUALLY USE SQUARE FOOTAGE TO DETERMINE THAT AND HAVE THEM FILL OUT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE WHEN THEY FILL OUT THE HOUSE.
YOU JUST HAVE A SQUARE FOOTAGE LINE.
WELL, IT SHOULD BE ON THE ASSESSMENT, SHOULDN'T IT? OR AN ESTIMATE? IT SHOULD, YEAH.
WITH THE CAMERAS, AGAIN, AGAIN, THIS GOT BROUGHT UP.
THIS CAME, WAS BROUGHT UP LY AT BDA MEETING AGAIN WATCHING WHERE PEOPLE WERE TRIPPING OVER, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH MM-HMM.
AND THEY'RE QUASI-JUDICIAL, SO THEIR JOB IS TO INTERPRET THE ZONING CODE AND THEN DETERMINE IF, AND THEY HAD NO GUIDELINES TO DETERMINE WHAT THAT WAS.
HOW WOULD WE, I FEEL ABOUT ADDING THE, THE PHRASE ON SITE IF YOU HAVE A HOME OCCUPATION, BUT I'M HIRING
[02:05:01]
SOMEBODY WHO'S IN NEW JERSEY AND THEY LIVE AND STAY IN NEW JERSEY, UHHUH THEN I THINK THAT THAT OH YES, YES.I'M, I'M SORRY I WASN'T CLEAR ENOUGH SITE.
YOU KNEW THE INTENT, BUT I WASN'T CLEAR.
WHILE IF YOU EMPLOY YOUR CHILDREN, YOU ARE WAIVED FROM THIS.
YOU CAN, YOU CAN WORK YOUR CHILDREN TO DEATH.
AS IT TURNS OUT, BY THE LAW, EVEN 11 YEARS OLD, YOU HAVE WORKING YOUR HOME RESTAURANT, NO PROBLEM.
BUT TRY TO HIRE ANOTHER 11-YEAR-OLD OFF THE STREET.
WELL, IT JUST DEPENDS IF IT'S A COAL MINE OR NOT.
UM, THAT'S NOT A FAMILY BUSINESS.
YOU HAVE A 10 SQUARE FOOT SIGN ON YOUR VEHICLE.
YEAH, THAT WAS, I DIDN'T MESS WITH THAT.
IT'S JUST AFTER EIGHT O'CLOCK.
BEFORE YOU ADJOURN THOUGH, COUPLE THINGS.
UM, GEORGE BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION ABOUT THE BYLAWS, UM, WHEN, UH, YOU, WHEN ADOPTING THE, UM, PHONE IN.
SO CIRCLING BACK TO THE OPEN MEETING LAW FOUNDED IN VIRGINIA FOIA MM-HMM
UH, THIS BODY'S A PUBLIC BODY AND, UM, AND UNDER, UH, THIS IS 2.2370 8.3 B BEFORE A PUBLIC BODY USES, UM, AND I'M GONNA SKIP THE PART THAT APPLIES TO LESSER, LESSER PUBLIC BODIES.
BEFORE A PUBLIC BODY USES, UH, OR BEFORE A PUBLIC BODY ALLOWS MEMBERS TO USE REMOTE PARTICIPATION AS DESCRIBED, PUBLIC BODY SHALL AT LEAST ONCE ANNUALLY ADOPT A POLICY BY RECORDED VOTE AT A PUBLIC MEETING.
UM, UH, ADOPT A POLICY, SORRY, SHALL ONCE ANNUALLY, ANNUALLY ADOPT A POLICY BY RECORDED VOTE AT A PUBLIC MEETING.
SO, UH, THE BYLAWS IS A VEHICLE FOR DOING THAT.
IF, IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR BYLAWS EVERY ONCE A YEAR, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING AND ADOPT OR READOPT, AS LONG AS THE BYLAWS REFERENCE TOWN CODE AND THEY DO.
AND THAT TOWN CODE SECTION IS IT IT'S IN THE BYLAWS.
IT MENTIONS IT'S FOR I'M JUST CONFIRMING FOUR DASH 1.1.
SO IF WE MAKE A MOTION AND ADOPT IT AT THE NEXT PUBLIC HEARING, IF YOU ADOPT YOUR BYLAWS, UHHUH, WHICH CONTAINS GONNA MAKE SOME CHANGES TO IT, WHICH CONTAINS A REFERENCE TO TOWN CODE.
YOU'RE ACCOMPLISHING THE MISSION.
CAN WE DO THAT HERE? DOES THAT NEED TO BE DONE IN THE PUBLIC HEARING? WELL, I, LAUREN SAID THAT SHE WOULD, UM, SIMPLIFY THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER DUTIES PORTION.
SO I YOU PROBABLY CAN'T DO IT.
AND IT DOESN'T REQUIRE PUBLIC HEARING.
IT DOESN'T REQUIRE PUBLIC NO, IT'S JUST NO, IT'S PROCEDURAL.
SO WE COULD DO THAT AT ANY MEETING.
THE OTHER THING IS THE, UM, MEETING ON THE 18TH, THE REGULAR MEETING IS GONNA BE HERE BECAUSE THERE'S NO PUBLIC HEARINGS OR ANYTHING.
THERE'S ONE CONSENT TO ADVERTISE AND THEN THE MINUTES AND THEN POSSIBLY THE BYLAWS.
THEN WE'RE GONNA GO INTO A WORK SESSION HERE.
SO, AND BY THEN WE'LL HAVE THE, BRING THIS BACK WITH THOSE, UM, THREE MEDIUM HEAVY ENLIGHTENED.
SO THAT'LL BE AT SEVEN O'CLOCK HERE.
AND THEN FOR FUN, WE ARE GOING TO BE, UM, IN APRIL, I'M BRINGING YOU A NEW URBAN AG ORDINANCE AND UM, WE'RE GONNA SEE HOW IT GOES.
SO ON THE 18TH, SORRY, ARE WE STARTING AT SIX OR SEVEN? SEVEN.
NO, THE WORK SESSION WILL BE AFTER THE REGULAR MEETING.
SO REGULAR MEETING WILL BE AT SEVEN.
[02:10:01]
SO ARE WE GONNA ADD, IT SHOULD BE QUICK.ANYTHING ELSE TO THE WORK SESSION OTHER THAN BRINGING BACK THE I ONE I TWO FIRST PORTIONS OF IT WHERE, UH, WITH THE, UM, WELL DIDN'T YOU JUST SAY YOU'RE BRINGING US URBAN AG TO THE WORK SESSION, BUT THAT YOU SAID THAT WAS APRIL? APRIL.
I MEAN, I COULD, YOU KNOW WHAT I CAN DO, I CAN BRING, 'CAUSE I'VE ALREADY PRETTY MUCH GOT IT WRITTEN.
WE'LL DO THE URBAN AG AT THE REGULAR MEETING WORK SECTION.
SO WE'LL FINISH UP THE INDUSTRIAL, WE'LL DO URBAN AG.
THAT WAY YOU'VE GOT TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT.
AND THEN WE'LL DO THE FIRST WORK SESSION IN APRIL.
WE'LL BE FINALIZING IT AND THEN TAKE IT TO PUBLIC HEARING IN APRIL.
AND THEN IF WE GET ANY FEEDBACK, WE MAY HAVE TO DO ANOTHER WORK SESSION.
BUT THE HOPE WOULD BE THAT IF THAT YEAH.
THAT WE COULD BE SENDING THIS TO COUNCIL, ALL OF THE ZIA OR URBAN AG URBAN, OKAY.
UM, ARE WE ALLOWED TO GET A SNEAK PREVIEW OF WHAT THE CONTROVERSY IS? THAT GROUP WATCH THAT BA MEETING.
IT, IT ISN'T, IT'S ABOUT THREE HOURS, THREE HOURS AND 25 MINUTES AND DO VERBATIM.
BUT IT WAS, IT WAS VERY, IT VERY HELPFUL OBVIOUSLY WHEN IT WOULD DIRECTLY APPLY.
FEBRUARY 17TH, FEBRUARY SEVEN.
AND IF YOU DON'T WANNA WATCH THE WHOLE TWO AND A HALF HOURS, I MEAN OFFLINE, I'LL GIVE YOU A, I CAN GIVE YOU GUYS A PRETTY GOOD SUMMARY OF IT.
UM, YOU CAN ALSO GO TO THE, UM, BRENDAN WROTE GOOD ARTICLE ABOUT IT, THE RULE EXAMINER PAGE.
YOU CAN READ ABOUT THE MEETING THERE.
HIT THE HIGH POINTS, COMMENTS FROM THE CITIZENS IN DRAFT FORM.
SO EVERY SINGLE WORD, WHETHER IT MAKES SENSE OR NOT, IS THERE, I HAVE SO MUCH RESPECT FOR HOW MUCH TIME THAT TOOK YOU.
BUT LIKE THE BIG THING WITH URBAN AG IS YEAH.
ARE WE TIGHTENING RESTRICTIONS, LOOSENING RESTRICTIONS, WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO GET IT? AND RIGHT NOW I'M JUST KIND OF LIKE THE GOAL WITH THIS INITIAL FIRST PASS WAS JUST TO GET RID OF THE AMBIGUITIES BETWEEN TOWN CODE CHAPTER 66 AND THEN 1 1 7.
UM, YOU GUYS WANT GOAT ZEBRAS, WHATEVER WE CAN HAVE THAT.
SHE'S, LAUREN HAS BEEN THOROUGHLY BEAT UP BY GOATS AND CHICKENS.
AND THEN I HAVE THE DRAFT SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE IN MY POSSESSION.
I'M STILL CLEANING UP SOME LANGUAGE BECAUSE A LONG TIME AGO OUR CODE WAS CHANGED IN PUBLIC WORKS WAS CALLED ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES.
SO THERE'S JUST LITTLE THINGS THAT I'M CLEANING UP AND THEN THEY'RE CHECKING ON WHETHER OR NOT SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS REQUIRE PUBLIC HEARINGS, CLEANING THAT STUFF UP.
SO, UM, ONCE I HAVE A DECENT DRAFT, I'M GONNA PUT IT ONLINE, BUT THAT, THE GOAL WITH THAT IS THIS WAS JUST BRINGING IT INTO, UM, CONFORMANCE WITH STATE CODE.
THERE ARE NO, IT'S NOT A MASSIVE OVERHAUL.
IT'S ALIGNING IT WITH THAT WHOLE SUBDIVISION AGENT THING WITH YOU GUYS BEING TAKEN OUT OF THE, UM, REVIEW PROCESS FOR LIKE SITE PLANS.
UM, AND THEN JUST GETTING RID OF SOME, UH, LOOPHOLES FOR SITE PLANS THAT JUST HAD NO LEGAL BASIS.
SO I WOULD LIKE TO BRING IT TO YOU IN ITS ENTIRETY.
WE TAKE IT TO PUBLIC HEARING IN ITS ENTIRETY AND GET THAT MOVING.
'CAUSE IT REALLY DOES JUST BRING US INTO COMPLIANCE.
BUT WHAT I AM GONNA DO IS HAVE SUMMIT COME HERE IN PERSON AND DO A PRESENTATION TO YOU ALL AS THE HANDOFF.
BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T GET THAT WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
'CAUSE CONNIE, I THINK YOU WERE THE ONE THAT WAS HERE WHEN THEY PASSED OFF THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO US.
UM, SO THE REST OF YOU GET TO MEET SUMMIT, OUR CONSULTANT.
UM, I THINK IT'S, IT'S NOT WITH ME AND THAT IT SHOULD BE MICHAEL AND WILL, UM, AND SEE THAT THEY ARE WELL, AND THEN YOU CAN ASK THEM ANY QUESTIONS YOU, YOU HAVE AS TO WHY YOUR RATIONALE, ALL OF IT.
SO I'M HOPING HERE ALL SET JUST A ROUND TABLE FOR GO, GO ROUND EACH FLOOR.
IS ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO BRING UP OR ANY BURNING ISSUES THAT WOULD BE TO MOVE FORWARD? NO.
CONNIE, HOW ABOUT YOU? WE DESSERTS.
[02:15:01]
LAUREN'S GOOD.AND I, I WOULD LIKE TO, I WANNA SET UP, UM, A COFFEE WITH EACH OF, UM, MEGAN AND I HAD A COFFEE TOGETHER.
I'D LIKE TO DO THAT WITH EACH OF YOU TWO, IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT.
I, THERE IS NO WAY I'M DRINKING MUSHROOM COFFEE.
SAID ABOUT 1200 GRAM GRAMS OF CAFFEINE PER CUP.
I WAS JUST GONNA SAY WE'RE AJOUR FIRST MEETING.