* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. ARE WE GOOD [00:00:01] TO GO? YES. UHHUH. . OKAY. [Planning and Zoning Work Session on February 4, 2026.] I WILL CALL INTO ORDER THE MEETING AT THE FRONT ROYAL PLANNING COMMISSION WORK SESSION. SHALL WE PROCEED? MS. POTTER, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. CHAIRMAN MARNER. I'M HERE. VICE CHAIRMAN NEIL. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER FEDERICA. SHE IS NOT HERE. UM, COMMISSIONER BROOKS? HERE. COMMISSIONER MARRAZZO HERE. YOU HAVE A QUORUM? WE HAVE A QUORUM. OKAY. OH, AND HERE COMES MS. FEDERICO SMITH. PEOPLE FLAT WHEN IT'S ICE SUN. SO OUTSIDE . OKAY. WE'RE SUPPOSED TO GET INTO THE FIFTIES NEXT WEEK OR CLOSE TO IT. IS THAT BEFORE OR AFTER THE NEXT WEEK? SAID LAST WEEK. OKAY. 48 NEXT WEEK. WEDNESDAY. I'LL, I'M SICK. WE, THAT'S GONNA FEEL LIKE SUMMER COMPARED TO WHAT WE'VE HAD. PRETTY SURE. AND THERE'S NO SNOW IN BETWEEN NOW AND THEN. YEP. I DON'T KNOW. IT SAYS FRIDAY THERE'S SOMETHING, BUT VERY LOW CHANCE. 35%. OH, WONDERFUL. BE A VERY COLD WEEKEND. ALRIGHT, WELL, YEAH. OUR FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS, MR. WARE, CAN YOU TALK TO US ABOUT THE P 5 0 0 6 1 OH? THE APPLICATION BY VERONICA TELE FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL. LET EVERYBODY GET SETTLED. I TAKE IT THAT YOU'VE REVIEWED THE PACKET YOU RECEIVED. UH, YOU WANT ME TO WAIT A FEW MOMENTS TO GET EVERYTHING GOOD? YOU'RE GOOD. OKAY. UH, SO THE FIRST ITEM OF A BUSINESS IS APPLICATION 25 DOUBLE 0 6 10. THAT IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL, UH, LOCATED AT 2 1 4 LEE STREET, UH, IDENTIFIED AS PAX MAP 2087 DASH FOUR DASH 93. IT IS ZONED R THREE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT. IT IS LOCATED IN THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT. UH, THE REQUEST IS FOR A WHOLE HOUSE RENTAL FOR FOUR BEDROOMS AND A MAXIMUM 10 PEOPLE, AND IT WILL NOT BE OWNER OCCUPIED. UH, THERE'S THE AERIAL VIEW, UH, 2 1 4. THERE'RE ON LEE STREET. GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHERE THE PROPERTY SETS AT. UH, THERE'S SOME, UH, PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN, OBVIOUSLY NOT THIS WEEK, . SO THERE'S THE HOUSE DRIVEWAY THERE ON THE LEFT. AND THEN WE GOT ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH, A DRIVEWAY ON THE LEFT, JOHN. SO, YES. DID YOU SAY, WAS IT EIGHT OR 10? MAXIMUM? 10. BUT IT'S FOUR BEDROOMS. IT'S FOUR BEDROOMS. YEAH. THAT'S THEIR APPLICATION. FOUR BEDROOMS, A MAXIMUM OF 10 PEOPLE. OKAY. MORE THAN TWO PER BEDROOM IS OPPOSED? YEAH, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT THEIR APPLICATION REVEALS. UH, THE PARCEL DOES HAVE THREE PARKING SPACES THERE ON THE LEFT OFF STREET PARKING, UH, SHOWING HERE ON THE SURVEY PLAT HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW. SO THEY DO HAVE OFF STREET PARKING TO ACCOMMODATE AT LEAST THREE VEHICLES THERE. UH, THAT THE CLASS THEY SUBMITTED, UH, SITE INSPECTION HAS NOT BEEN CONDUCTED. WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF HARD TIME REACHING OUT TO THE APPLICANT. THAT WILL BE CONDUCTED FEBRUARY 10TH. SO WE'LL DO AN ONSITE INSPECTION OF THE HOME ON FEBRUARY 10TH. UH, IF THERE'S ANY DEFICIENCIES, UH, WITH THE INSPECTION, THAT'LL GIVE THEM TIME BEFORE THE WEEK AFTER HIS MEETING TO BE IN COMPLIANT WITH THE, UH, PART OF THE, UH, SHORT TERM RENTAL APPLICATION. THEY DID SUBMIT A MANAGEMENT PLAN WITH YOU AND THEY DID SUBMIT THE EVACUATION PLAN THAT IS MANDATORY IN THE PACKET. SO THE APPLICATION IS COMPLETE. WE HAVE NOT DID THE SITE INSPECTION, BUT THEY DO HAVE OFF STREET PARKING, IF THAT'S A QUESTION. UH, ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PROPERTY? SHORT TERM RENTAL, SPECIAL USE PERMITS? ANY QUESTIONS FOR JOHN? HAVE HAVE ANYONE REACHED OUT AND TELL ABOUT THE 10, YOU KNOW, FOUR BEDROOM, 10 PEOPLE PROBLEM? UH, NO, NOT, NOT EXCLUSIVELY ON THAT ITEM, BUT I, I WILL, I'LL REACH OUT TOMORROW FOR THEM. HOWEVER, I MEAN, DOES THE MAXIMUM OF 10 INCLUDE CHILDREN? BECAUSE THE CODE SAYS FOR TWO ADULTS IN PARTICULAR, RIGHT. IT DOES SAY MAXIMUM OF 10 PEOPLE TO ADULTS PER PER BEDROOM. I BELIEVE THE CODE SAY, RIGHT. UM, WE, WE'LL REACH OUT AND HAVE A CLARIFICATION ON THAT. OKAY. YEAH, I MEAN, I COULD EASILY SAY, YOU KNOW, IF FOUR KIDS, YOU KNOW, SLAP THEM IN A BEDROOM THAT THEY'RE FROM. UM, AND THERE AREN'T ANY, UH, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, ANY RESTRICTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO THE, SPECIFICALLY THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICTS IN REGARDS TO SHORT [00:05:01] TERM RENTAL. UH, NO RESTRICTIONS FOR THAT. OKAY. SO YOU MAY HAVE MENTIONED THIS WITH THE PARKING SITUATION, UH, THEY LISTED THEY HAVE THREE OFFS, THREE PARKING AVAILABLE IN THE DRIVEWAY. THERE'S KIND OF A LITTLE DARK THERE, BUT THERE YOU CAN SEE THE DRIVEWAY THERE. AND THAT, THAT PHOTOGRAPHS INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET ALSO, OTHER THAN THE NUMBER OF HEADS, IT SEEMS TO MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF, OF OUR CODE. YEP. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT PERHAPS IS A SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC, BUT IT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED IN THE CODE IF WE ARE SPECIFYING TWO ADULTS PER BEDROOM, BUT THEN A MAXIMUM OF 10 FOR THE HOUSE, WHAT HAVE YOU? UM, BUT IT WOULD THAT THEN IMPLY THAT IT'S A MAXIMUM OF 10 ADULTS PER HOUSE? I MEAN, THIS IS AN AREA WHERE WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, FAMILIES WITH A LOT OF CHILDREN. YOU KNOW, IS THIS, IS THE CODE IN CONFLICT WITH THIS ALL? POSSIBLY? UM, WE CAN REVISIT THAT. YEAH. WITH HER DEFINITION, I THINK THAT, YEAH, IT SAYS DRIVEWAY A LITTLE BIT BETTER MAKING THAT SCREEN. I MAKE A LITTLE SHADY MORE THAT THE DRIVEWAY THERE. OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE I WANT, UH, I'LL, WE'LL LOOK INTO THAT AND I'LL CONTACT THEM ABOUT THE, UH, FOUR BEDROOMS AND MAXIMUM OF 10 PEOPLE AND SEE ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS ONE? I, OKAY. MOVING ON TO THE NEXT ONE, WHICH IS 2 5 2 6 0 0 1 3. AND THIS IS THE REASONING APPLICATION, RIGHT? SO THIS IS A RE, UH, 2 6 0 0 0 1 3. THAT IS A REZONING APPLICATION, UH, REQUEST AN AMENDMENT TO THE ZONING MAP TO RECLASSIFY TWO VACANT LOTS ON GRAND AVENUE IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP 28 6 SECTION SIX BLOCK FOUR PARCELS 11 A AND 14 A. THEY'RE REQUESTING THE REZONING FROM R ONE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT R THREE. UH, SO THERE'S THE PARCEL, UH, WITH THE CURRENT COUNTY GIS ZONING, UH, AERIAL VIEW. NOW THOSE SIX LOTS HAVE SINCE BEEN, UH, COMBINED OR CONSOLIDATED INTO TWO LOTS. IT SAYS THERE BASICALLY AT THE INTERSECTION OF GRAND AND CYPRESS STREET TO GIVE YOU AN AERIAL VIEW. IT'S VACANT PROPERTY. UH, THERE'S THE CURRENT ZONING R ONE OUTLINED THERE, AND IT ABUTS THE R THREE TO THE, UH, NORTH AND R TWO HERE. UH, IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THIS, YOU SHOULD BE THE PLANNING COMMISSION. THIS IS A SQUIRREL HILL SUBDIVISION AND WE HAVE AN APPLICATION FOR THAT THIS EVENING. THIS IS THE R TWO AREA. JUST SHOWING YOU THE CLOSE PROXIMITY OF THE TWO APPLICATIONS, UH, FOR SQUIRREL HILL. UH, THERE. SO THIS IS THE LOTS HERE CURRENTLY ZONED R ONE. UH, THERE'S THE, UH, UH, SURVEY PLA OF THE LOTS THAT WERE CONSOLIDATED, UH, FROM US. THE SIX LOTS IN THE TWO LOTS. UH, THE CURRENT LOTS ARE 75 FOOT WIDE AND 150 FOOT DEEP, SO TWO LOTS THERE. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE REQUESTING. REZONING THE CONCEPTIONAL DRAWING OF THE LAYOUT. UH, IF APPROVED, UH, THEY COULD SUBDIVIDE THAT FURTHER INTO A DUPLEX FOR EACH LOT. UH, AND THEY SHOW A DIAGRAM OF THE POTENTIAL LAYOUT OF THE HOMES. UH, THE R ONE REQUIRES LOTS TO BE A MINIMUM OF 75 FOOT WIDE AND AT LEAST 10,000 SQUARE FEET. SO THESE LOTS CURRENTLY ARE 75 FOOT WIDE, BUT THEY HAVE A SQUARE FOOTAGE OF 11,250. THE R THREE REQUIRES THE LOTS TO HAVE A MINIMUM WIDTH OF 60 FEET AND AT LEAST 6,000 SQUARE FOOT IN SIZE. UH, FOR OTHER USES BESIDES DUPLEX TOWNHOUSES AND APARTMENTS, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN CATEGORY WITHIN THE R THREE. SO THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE FOR DUPLEX IS 7,500. UH, SO THESE LOTS HERE WOULD BE THE 11,250. THEY COULD BE FURTHER SUBDIVIDED AND THE TOWN CODE REQUIRES THEM THE MINIMUM LOT AREA TO BE 3,750 SQUARE FEET. SO EACH OF THOSE LOTS WOULD BE 5,625. [00:10:02] UH, CURRENTLY THE LOTS ARE 75 FOOT LOT AS I SPOKE BEFORE, 11,250 FEET IN SIZE. UH, THOSE LOTS WOULD BE 25 FOOT PERCENT LARGER IN WIDTH AND 50% LARGER IN SIZE AND AREA THAN WHAT'S REQUIRED IN THE R THREE. UH, THEY DO HAVE THE SETBACK FOR THE R THREE, UH, DOES HAVE A SEVEN FOOT SETBACK, BUT THIS GIVES THESE HOMES, I THINK 15 AND A HALF FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE TO THE HOUSE. SO THEY WOULD HAVE A, A MORE AREA THERE IN THE, UH, SIDE YARD, UM, WITH THIS STYLE OF HOME. UM, SO ACCORDING TO YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT THAT WAS APPROVED BY TOWN COUNCIL, UH, THESE ARE OUR 15, UH, PLANNING AREAS. AND IT IS LOCATED IN NUMBER FIVE. THE VISCO CITY AREA LOCATED HERE. THAT'S THE AREA IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH TOWN. UH, SO IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UH, THAT GIVES YOU THE AREA DESCRIPTION OPPORTUNITIES, CHALLENGES AND ACTION STRATEGIES THAT YOU SHOULD BE CONSIDERING. UH, FOR THIS SECTION OF TOWN. UH, THE LOTS HERE ARE, THIS WOULD BE GRAND AVENUE AND THE LOTS WOULD BE HERE. SO THAT ARE, IT IS, IT IS, UH, COMING IN ALIGNMENT WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. IT WOULD BE, UH, THE NEW ZONING WOULD N NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, RESIDENTIAL, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL IS MEDIUM DENSITY OUTLINED THERE IN YELLOW. AND A STYLE OF HOUSES WOULD BE SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED, SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED WHAT WE, UH, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING OR A TWO FAMILY DWELLING AND ALSO AS STATED, UH, ADUS, UH, WITH A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UH, WHICH WE HAVE WORKED ON, UH, RECOMMENDING INTERNAL FOR THE HOME, UH, OR AN EXTERNAL A DU PERMITTED BY RIGHT. THAT'S IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. SO IF YOU NEED TO REVIEW THAT INFORMATION, UH, CHARACTER OF THE DESIGN PRINCIPLE, TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN INFIELD TO MATCH EXISTING HISTORIC LOTTERY PATTERNING PATTERNS. UH, SO WE DID A NEW FROM OUR GIS SYSTEM, THESE OTHER MAPS OR FROM OUR SUB, UH, OR CON, UH, CONSULTANT THAT PUT THESE MAPS TOGETHER. BUT YOU CAN SEE THE LITTLE BIT OF THE DIFFERENCE IN THE CLARITY OF THAT FROM OUR CONSULTANT TO OUR TOWN NEW GIS SYSTEM. MM-HMM . UH, WHOLE LOT CLEARER WITH THAT. THEY DID A GREAT JOB ON THAT. SO THESE ARE THE, THE TWO LOTS HERE. UH, ZONE NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL MEDIUM DENSITY. SO THIS WHOLE SECTION ACCORDING TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OF APPROVED BY TOWN COUNCIL SHOWS THAT IS NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL DENSITY. UH, THESE HERE IS THE SINGLE FAMILY AREA. SO IT DOES ALIGN WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. OH, AND JUST FOR CLARIFICATION TOO, THEY'RE NOT PROPOSING A REZONING TO NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL, THAT'S JUST THE FUTURE LAND YEAH. NOTION, RIGHT? AND THE DESIGNATION. YEAH. YEAH, JUST THE FUTURE LAND USE. SO WE PUT THAT TOGETHER FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARITY. AND AGAIN, THIS IS THE SQUIRREL HILL, UH, SUBDIVISION THAT WE'LL BE TALKING OUT LATER. THAT'LL GIVE YOU KIND OF AN ORIENTATION BETWEEN THE TWO PROPERTIES. UH, WITH THAT, UH, SOMETHING YOU MAY WANNA KEEP IN MIND. UH, THE LADDERING, THE LIGHTING PATTERNS REFERRED TO THE ESTABLISHED ARRANGEMENT, SIZE AND LAYOUT OF THE LAND PARCELS OR THE LOTS WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT OR THE NEIGHBORHOOD, TYPICALLY INFLUENCING THE BUILDING DESIGN AND STREETSCAPE. UH, THE LOTTING DIC DICTATES BUILDING PLACEMENT AND DENSITY SUCH AS NARROW LOT PATTERNS IN THE URBAN AREAS THAT CREATE VERTICAL RHYTHMIC AND HARMONIOUS FACADES. UH, IN YOUR PACKET, IT ALSO IS A STATEMENT, UH, OF JUSTIFICATION FROM THE APPLICANT. YOU SHOULD REVIEW THAT INFORMATION, UH, WITH THIS. ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS REZONING? YES. I THINK MAYBE YOU GUYS TALKED ABOUT THIS AT THE LAST WORK SESSION, BUT THAT THIS WOULDN'T FALL UNDER SPOT REZONING. CORRECT. IT JUST BECAUSE THEY BACK UP AGAINST ONE R THREE PROPERTY. UH, LET'S, WE'LL GO BACK. YEAH. SO R THREE IS TO THE NORTH OF, YOU WANNA SAY BEHIND THE LOTS CAUSE THE HOUSES WITH FRONTAL GRAND SO THAT IT IS ADJACENT THERE TO THE R THREE, UH, ZONING CLASSIFICATION. BUT IT'S NOT SPOT REZONING. IT'S NOT SPOT, IT'S NOT, YEAH. I WANNA UNDERSTAND WHY IT'S NOT SPOT TOUCHING. IT WOULD BE SPOT IF IT WAS OVER HERE. RIGHT. SO, I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO KNOW. IT'S JUST BECAUSE OF THE R IT TOUCHES ONE SIDE OF THIS PROPERTY. IT TOUCHES THE R THREE. RIGHT. MEANS IT'S NOT SPOT [00:15:01] ZONING. CORRECT. AND IT DOES ALIGN WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND FUTURE LAND USE PLAN. THAT QUESTION WAS BROUGHT UP. SO THAT'S WHY WE, UH, PUT, UH, ANOTHER DRAWING TOGETHER. UH, THIS IS OUTTA YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT YOU SHOULD BE REVIEWING FOR ANY REZONING, UH, SECTION WITH IT AND A LITTLE BIT MORE CLARIFICATION, UH, WHERE THOSE LOTS SET AT FOR THE FUTURE LAND USE. THAT'S FUTURE LAND USE, UH, IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. SO IT DOES ALIGN WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED BY TOWN COUNCIL. THAT QUESTION MAY HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP, UH, PREVIOUSLY. SO ARE THERE ANY OTHER DUPLEXES IN THAT AREA? THERE, THOSE OFF OF ORCHARD STREET ALL THE WAY, UH, IN HERE CURRENTLY. AND SO SQUIRREL HILL, SO TO THE NORTH, YEAH. SO WE GO TO, I THINK WE HAVE THIS SO SQUIRREL HERE. HILL IS THIS R TWO, UH, WHICH HAS, UH, IT'S IN THE FINAL STAGES OF REVIEW. UH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION DID APPROVE THE, UH, PRELIMINARY PLAN. THAT'S I THINK BEFORE YOU WAS ON SERVER ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION. THAT IS, UH, 30 COUPLE, LOTS OF DUPLEXES THERE IN THE R TWO OFF OF, UH, ORCHARD STREET AND WEST MAIN STREET. AND YOU'VE GOT, UM, TOWN HOMES AT THE END OF STREET. AT THE END OF THE STREET. SO NOT IN THAT VICINITY. THERE. WHEN YOU DRIVE THIS, THOSE WOULD BE THOSE. THERE'S SOME RIGHT HERE THAT BUTT UP RIGHT HERE ON THE BACK. BUT WHEN YOU DRIVE THIS NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU GO THROUGH IT, AND I ENCOURAGE ALL OF YOU TO DO IT, UM, I KNOW IT, IT'S DOWN IN THE VERY END DOWN HERE. THIS, IT'S A VERY NICE RESIDENTIAL AREA. THIS IS A, THIS IS MORE COMPLEX THAN MEETS THE EYE THAN THIS DECISION BECAUSE OF LIKE CINCO GOING TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT OTHER THINGS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BENEFITING MORE THAN JUST THE SINGLE OWNER AND WHAT THE COMMUNITY INTEREST AND PEOPLE IN THERE AND UM MM-HMM . AND EVEN THOUGH IT'S ON THE FUTURE PLANS, THAT'S A MACRO VIEW. AND THIS IS A MICRO AREA. YEAH. SO DOES IT, DOES IT FIT? SO THIS IS NOT JUST BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S NOT SPOT WE ZONING AND IT, AND IT, IT'S IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR THE FUTURE USE DOESN'T MEAN IT MAKES SENSE FOR EVERY SPOT IN THE PLACE, PLEASE. THAT'S MY VIEW. YEAH. AND JOHN, THOSE ON SKYLINE PLACE AT THE END OF GRAND AVENUE, THOSE OR THOSE APARTMENTS OR THOSE, UM, ROW HOUSES BASICALLY. 'CAUSE I DROVE BY THERE AND THEY WERE ACTUALLY RATHER ATTRACTIVE. THEY WERE WELL DONE. THEY, THEY LOOKED, THEY FIT IN WITH THE DECOR OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, SO TO SPEAK. WHAT DO YOU I'M SORRY. VERY END OF THE BOX, THESE THINGS HERE. OH, YEAH. AT THE END OF GRAND AVENUE UP HERE. YEAH. UM, I COULDN'T TELL FROM, I COULDN'T GET CLOSE TO 'EM BECAUSE OF, I COULDN'T TELL IF THEY WERE APARTMENTS, BUT FROM FAR END YOU CAN'T SEE THOSE. NO, NO. YOU CAN'T SEE 'EM. BUT, AND SO YOU HAVE A, IT'S A DIFFERENT MICRO MICROENVIRONMENT, MICRO ENVIRONMENT. , UNFORTUNATELY, ANYTIME YOU DOING THESE OVERLAYS OR CHANGES, YOU END UP CREATING MICRO ENVIRONMENT. NO, IT IS, IT IS DEFINITELY A MICRO BECAUSE, BECAUSE THAT IS A VERY DISTINCT AREA THERE. UH, WHERE'S THE BARN? THE BARN? YEAH, THE BARN IS ON RIGHT THERE BETWEEN THREE 11 AND 3 0 3 I THINK. BUT NOT ON THE PROPOSED LAW. NO, NO. THE PROPOSED LAWS ARE VACANT. I LOVE THAT ONE. . SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, UH, THERE'S A, A SITUATION THAT WE LOOKED AT PREVIOUSLY, UM, OFF, OFF OF STRASSBURG WHERE IT WAS, IT HAD BEEN ZONED COMMERCIAL BACK IN THE EIGHTIES, NEVER GOT DEVELOPED INTO ANYTHING. AND WE ENDED UP PUTTING IT TO R THREE BECAUSE IT MADE SENSE THERE. YEAH. UM, BECAUSE IT WAS SO DIFFICULT TO BUILD A ANYTHING THERE. IT, IT WAS ALREADY ADJACENT TO THE, THE NURSING HOME RIGHT OVER HERE ON GRAND. THIS IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT. THERE WOULD BE NO STRUGGLE TO PUT A SINGLE FAMILY THERE BECAUSE IT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S ALONG THE REST OF THE STREET. THE HIGHER DENSITY BUILDING THAT'S THERE, WHERE YOU'RE MENTIONING OVER ON SKYLINE IS CLUSTERED AT THE END, WHICH IS, AND THEREFORE A SEPARATE AREA. AND YOU KNOW, FROM THE, FROM THE, NOT ONLY THE VISUAL STANDPOINT, BUT THEN ALSO JUST, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S GOING ON ON ANY SPECIFIC STREET. UM, HAVING SOMETHING THAT'S R THREE IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE DISJOINTED. MM-HMM . RIGHT. YOU ARE PULLING FROM THE STREETS THAT ARE A STREET THAT'S BEHIND IT THAT NO ONE SEES UNLESS THEY GO AROUND THE BLOCK. RIGHT. [00:20:01] RIGHT. UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, DOES THIS FIT THERE AT ALL? AND YES, THE, UH, THE FUTURE, UH, LAND USE PLAN HAS IT AS, AS NEIGHBORHOOD. BUT ON THE OTHER SIDE AS WELL, IF WE LOOK AT THE STATEMENT OF INTENT FOR R THREE, UM, IT TALKS ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, P SUITABLE ENVIRONMENT FOR FAMILIES DESIRING THE AMENITIES OF APARTMENT LIVING AND CONVENIENCE OF BEING CLOSEST TO SHOPPING EMPLOYMENT CENTERS OR COMMUNITY FACILITIES. YES. THIS AREA IS TECHNICALLY WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE OF MAIN STREET, BUT UNLIKE YOUR STANDARD R THREE, IT'S NOT, I WOULDN'T CALL IT NECESSARILY CLOSE. I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S CLOSE-ISH. UM, WHEREAS EVEN IF WE'RE LOOKING AT R TWO, UM, INSTEAD OF R THREE, THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE IT TALKING ABOUT IT BEING MORE ABOUT LIKE COMMUNITY, FAMILY ORIENTED THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES, WHICH, YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT BE CONSIDERED IF WE'RE GOING R TWO, BUT A JUMP TO R THREE, WHICH ALLOWS FOR SO MUCH IN A, A STREET THAT IS SO CLEARLY R ONE. UM, AND EVEN THEN ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FOR THE NEIGHBORHOODS FOR THAT INFILL TO MATCH EXISTING HISTORIC LOTTING PATTERNS. UM, WE'RE GONNA BE CUTTING THESE DOWN, ESSENTIALLY. I MEAN, YES, THESE SIX LOTS HAVE BEEN COMBINED, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT IS GONNA BE BUILT THERE AND WHAT DOES THAT DENSITY LOOK LIKE IN COMPARISON TO THE REST OF THE STREET, IT IS EXTREMELY DEVIANT FROM WHAT'S BEEN THERE HISTORICALLY. IT'S ITS OWN MICROENVIRONMENT. YEAH. MR. BROOKS, WHAT DO YOU THINK? I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING. I MEAN, WE DON'T, CAREFUL WE DON'T HAVE DISCUSSION. WE DON'T HAVE A DECISION. YEAH. WE DON'T, IT TAKES SOME THOUGHT, IT'S GONNA TAKE SOME THOUGHT. IT'S NOT STRAIGHTFORWARD. YEAH. UH, CONCERNING THE APPLICANT'S, UH, COMMENT ABOUT ADDRESSING THE HOUSING SHORTAGE, COULDN'T THAT BE ADDRESSED THROUGH LIKE AN A DU? UM, IF THAT'S, COUNSEL DOESN'T APPROACH THAT. OH, COORDIN WE'RE TALKING, TALKING ABOUT IT AGAIN TONIGHT. LATER ON. WE LOVE, THEY BOUNCED IT BACK TO US. LIKE, OKAY. OKAY. WELL ANYWAY. RIGHT. POTENTIALLY IF THAT GET THROUGH, IT POTENTIALLY COULD BE DONE THAT WAY. OKAY. YEAH. I, I THINK THAT YOU SAID THAT REALLY WELL, BUT IT CHANGES, IT SEEMS TO CHANGE THE TENOR OF THAT ENVIRONMENT RATHER SIGNIFICANTLY. JUST, IT JUST AN IT SEEMS, STRIKES ME AS AN ANOMALY IN THAT AREA. YEAH, IT WOULD ABSOLUTELY BE ANOMALOUS. OKAY. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? HEARING NONE, NO. MOVE ON TO THE NEXT PLACE, WHICH IS THE 2 6 0 0 2 1. OKAY. SO THIS ONE IS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION APPLICATION ON, UM, BEHALF OF SQUIRREL HILL. ONE LLC REQUEST AN EXCEPTION FROM TOWN CODE CHAPTER 1 48 8 60 A SIX E, UH, RETAINING WALL HEIGHT, MAXIMUM HEIGHT REQUIREMENT OF SIX FEET TO INCREASE THE MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE WALL HEIGHT, NOT TO EXCEED 10 FEET FOR PROPERTIES LOCATED ON ORCHARD STREET, IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP 20 A SIX, SECTION FIVE PARCELS, 8 1 8 2 8 3 8 11 AND EIGHT 12. SO, UH, WHICH WE POINTED OUT JUST A LITTLE BIT AGO, THERE'S GRAND AVENUE HERE TO THE SOUTH ORCHARD STREET HERE. THIS IS THE SQUIRREL HILL, UH, SUBDIVISION WITH DUPLEX LOTS THAT HAVE BEEN, UH, APPROVED IN THE PRELIMINARY PLAN. THEY'RE IN THE FINAL STAGES OF GETTING APPROVAL ADMINISTRATIVELY FOR THE DEVELOPMENT, SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN. SO IT'S, UH, REFERRING TO THOSE THREE LOTS, THREE LOTS HERE, OR FIVE LOTS, THREE LOTS HERE, AND TWO ON THE WESTERN NORTHWESTERN END THERE OFF OF ORCHARD STREET. UM, SO THERE'S A LITTLE OTHER OO OVERVIEW OF THE LOT CONFIGURATIONS WITH THE LOT, UH, TAX MAP NUMBERS THERE. AND WITHIN YOUR PACKET, THE ENGINEERING DID SUBMIT THE GRADING PLAN HERE FOR THESE LOTS. ALL THESE LOTS HERE IN THE BACK. WE'LL HAVE RETAINING WALLS. UH, THESE ARE STEEP SLOPES, SO, UM, THEY'RE IN THE BACK. SO THESE ARE INFIELD LOTS AND BASICALLY, UH, YOU, YOU'RE WELL AWARE IT THESE LOTS THAT HAVE BEEN LEFT OVER, THEY DO POST CHALLENGES FOR ENGINEERING WISE. SO THOSE, THEY ARE PROPOSING [00:25:01] RETAINING WALLS IN THE REAR OF THOSE LOTS. BUT THEY HAD LIKE, UH, TOWN CODE 1 48, 60 A SIX E SAYS, USE OF RETAINING WALLS IS ENCOURAGED TO REDUCE THE STEEPNESS OF MANMADE SLOPES AND TO PROVIDE PLANNING POCKETS CONDUCIVE TO VEGETATION AND LANDSCAPING. ALL RETAINING WALLS SHALL REQUIRE AN ENGINEERED DESIGN WITH EXCEPTION OF NON TIERED RETAINING WALLS WITH LEVEL BACKFILL AND NO SURCHARGE LOADING WITH A HEIGHT OF 24 INCHES OR TWO FEET OR LESS FROM FINISHED GRADE. RETAINING WALLS SHALL NOT EXCEED SEVEN TWO INCHES OR SIX FEET IN HEIGHT FROM FINISHED GRADE. THAT'S TOWN CODE. SO THEY'RE ASKING FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION OF THAT TOWN CODE TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT OF THE RETAINING WALLS. UM, WITH THEIR APPLICATION, THEY SAID THAT THE SITE GRADING CONDITIONS AND NECESSITATE THE CONSTRUCTION OF RETAINING WALLS EXCEEDING THE HEIGHT LIMITATION FOR OPTIMAL LOT DEVELOPMENT, UH, RELATED TO DRAINAGE AND SPACING FROM THE RESIDENTIAL UNITS. THIS INCREASE IN HEIGHT WOULD MAINTAIN PROPER DRAINAGE AWAY FROM THE STRUCTURES. SO THEY DID GIVE AN OVERVIEW OF, UH, LOTS ONE AND TWO. SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN A LITTLE BIT OF A QUANDARY HERE. UH, I WISH THAT THE, UH, PROFILE WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE IN, UH, DETAIL, BUT TOWN CODE WHAT, UH, INTERESTING WITH THIS HERE, UH, THE GRADE IS, THE STREET'S ALREADY EXISTING. SO OUR TOWN CODE, UH, WOULD LIKE THE DRIVEWAYS TO BE LESS THAN 10%. SO THEN WE ARE, THEN WE GIVE THEM THE DEPTH THAT THEY HAD HAD FOR THE PARKING TWO OFF STREET PARKING SPACES, 18 FOOT DEEP. SO NOW THEY'RE LIMITED WHEN THEY LEAVE THE CURB THAT THE DRIVEWAY SHOULD NOT BE GREATER THAN 10%. THEN THE DEPTH FROM THE CURB TO THE BEGINNING OF THE HOUSE, WE KNOW THAT HAS TO BE AT LEAST A MINIMUM OF 36 FOOT DEEP. UH, HAD TO BE MORE THAN THAT, I GUESS 39, BECAUSE THE PARKING HAS TO BE THREE FOOT OFF THE HOUSE. SO THEY HAD TO PUSH THE HOUSE BACK, BASICALLY, I'LL JUST SAY 40 FEET TO START THE HOUSE BECAUSE OF THE DRIVEWAY. THEN THEY HAD TO MAINTAIN THE PERCENT OF GRADE FROM THE CURB TO THE HOUSE SHOULD NOT BE GREATER THAN 10%. SO THEN WE PUSH THE HOUSE BACK INSIDE THE BUILDING ENVELOPE, THUS CREATING A STEEP SLOPE THAT'S ALREADY THERE. AND THEY HAVE TO BUILD A RETAINING WALL. UH, SO THEIR DESIGN IS WITH, THIS IS THE SIX FEET. IF YOU LOOK IN YOUR PACKET, THERE'S A 16, A SIX FOOT WALL, THE YARD SEPARATION HERE IN THE BACK, AND THE PERCENT OF GRADE COMING FROM THE EXISTING GRADE DOWN. NOW, THAT'S KIND OF OUT OF PROPORTION, BUT THAT'S THE WAY THE DRAWING IS SET UP. SO THAT DRAWING DOESN'T WIN ANY AWARDS. . UH, SO THEY BELIEVED THEY COULD GET AWAY WITH, OR, OR ENGINEERING WISE, THEY WOULD LIKE AN EIGHT, MAYBE AN EIGHT FOOT HEIGHT WALL OR AN EIGHT AND A HALF WITH A DITCH SECTION IN BEHIND IT ON THE BACK OF THE RETAINING WALL TO GET THE WATER TO FLOW AROUND THE HOUSES AWAY FROM THE STRUCTURE. SO IT'S NOT CASCADING, OBVIOUSLY, DOWN OFF THE RETAINING WALL. UH, SO THAT WOULD ALLEVIATE, BUILD THE WALL UP HIGHER, PUT A DITCH SECTION IN THE BACK, THEN TIE IT INTO EXISTING GRADE THERE. THEY DID GIVE YOU A, UH, WITHIN THE PACKET THEY DID GIVE YOU, UH, A FULL GEOTECHNICAL INVESTIGATION REPORT. YOU PROBABLY SHOULD REVIEW THAT. UH, YOU MAY NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH THE TERMINOLOGY THERE, BUT THEY DID SUBMIT A WHOLE PACKET BASED ON THE GEOTECHNICAL REPORT, UH, ON THE WALL. I IMAGINE YOU PROBABLY DID. I I HAVE READ . CAN'T WAIT TO HEAR YOUR VIEW. SO IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, IT, LIKE ALL THESE LOTS, THESE INFIELD LOTS, THEY HAVE LIMITATIONS WITH THE DESIGN OF IT. THESE ARE THE REASONS, UH, PROBABLY IN THE PAST THAT THEY HAVEN'T BEEN DEVELOPED BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE BETTER ENGINEERING, THE RESEARCH, UH, USE OF RETAINING WALLS, WHICH OBVIOUSLY INCREASES THE COST OF THE CONSTRUCTION PROJECT. BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING. THEY'RE ASKING FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION ON THE HEIGHT. NOW, WHETHER THEY HAVE TO RE BUILD RETAINING WALLS REGARDLESS, UH, JUST CAUSE OF THE SLOPE, WHETHER THE HEIGHT'S SIX FOOT OR EIGHT AND A HALF FOOT. SO WE WOULD ONLY APPROVE THE LOCATION OF THE RETAINING WALL. ZONING WISE. THE DESIGN OF THE RETAINING WALL WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE BY A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER BASED ON THE SOIL'S REPORT THAT THEY GAVE YOU, ESTABLISHING THE FOOTING WIDTH AND THE TYPE OF STONE IN THE BACKFIELD AND EVERYTHING ELSE. UH, THAT WOULD BE REVIEWED BY THE BUILDING CODE OR WARREN COUNTY BUILDING APARTMENT BECAUSE IT DOES REQUIRE A BUILDING PERMIT [00:30:01] FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL RETAINING THE WALL. SO ZONING WISE, REGARDLESS WHETHER IT'S SIX FOOT OR EIGHT AND A HALF, THEY STILL HAVE TO GET A ZONING PERMIT FOR THE LOCATION OF THE WALL. THAT IS ALL THAT WE WOULD REVIEW. WE DO NOT REVIEW THE ENGINEERING OR STRUCTURAL DESIGN OF THE WALL. THAT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE WARREN COUNTY BUILDING DEPARTMENT FOR REVIEW. I KNOW SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS GOT BROUGHT UP, UH, BUT THAT'S OUT OF OUR WHEELHOUSE AND NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY. THAT FALLS UNDER THE BUILDING CODE TO REVIEW THE PLANS OF THE ENGINEERING DESIGN OF IT. BASICALLY, WE WOULD BE APPROVING THE HEIGHT AND THE LOCATION OF IT. THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO PUT ONE IN THERE ANYWAY. UH, BUT THEY'RE A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. THEY'RE ASKING FOR THE HEIGHT TO BE INCREASED FROM SIX FEET, POTENTIALLY A MAXIMUM OF 10. IT LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE PROPOSING, THEY THINK THEY COULD GET, WE, UH, MAYBE GET AN EIGHT OR AN EIGHT AND A HALF FOOT WALL IN THE BACK. THEY WOULD'VE TO DO SOME MORE STUDIES IF THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS GRANTED TO SEE WHAT THE HEIGHT IS. BUT NOW THEY'RE PROPOSING, UH, AN EIGHT OR AN EIGHT AND A HALF FOOT HIGH WALL. THERE'S A LOT OF READING THERE. MR. NEIL, DID YOU TAKE THE TIME TO READ THE GEOTECHNIC REPORT? YOU BETCHA. . BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT, CAN I JUST ASK A SURE. A DUMB QUESTION. UM, WHEN YOU WERE EXPLAINING HOW THEY DID THE GRADING FROM THE STREET TO THE BACK, UM, BASICALLY YOU'RE SAYING THAT THEY MOVED ENOUGH DIRT TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, THAT THEY CREATED THE NEED FOR THIS WALL, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? NO. WELL, YOU GET, YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THE SLOPE COMES IN. THERE'S EXISTING GRADES. SO THE SLOPE IS LIKE THIS AND THAT. SO THEY HAVE TO CUT BACK LIKE THIS DIRECTION AND COME UP. SO WHERE YOUR HAND IS, IS THE STREET? YES. OKAY. SO WHAT'S IT'S THAT SLOPE THAT'S THE, THAT, THAT'S THE SLOPE COMING DOWN TO THE STREET. SO YOU HAVE TO CUT FROM THE CURB NO, GREATER THAN 10% FOR THE DRIVEWAY. SO THEY MOVED ALL THAT DIRT. WELL HAVE TO, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE EXCAVATED. YES. THEY, THEY WOULD BE REMOVING IT, NOT JUST MOVING IT. SO, SO WHY, WHY? AND THEN IT ENDS UP AT THE BACK OF THE LOT. NO, SO THIS IS, THIS SECTION IS CUT OUT AND IT, IT WILL DISAPPEAR. WELL, IT'LL BE REMOVED OFF SITE. OKAY. FOR NOW WOULD BE MOVED OFF SITE. THEN THE SLOPE THAT REMAINS IS HOW THEY NEED TO TIE THAT IN. OKAY. OKAY. SO THAT SLOPE IS ALREADY THERE. YES. THE SLOPE IS ALREADY THERE. YEAH, THEY HAVE TO, I MEAN, BASICALLY THEY'RE, THEY'RE TAKING A CHUNK OUT OF THE, THE GROUND. RIGHT. MAKING A, A VERTICAL CUT HERE. RIGHT. THIS, THIS MATERIAL GETS REMOVED, TAKEN OFF SITE BY THE PROPOSED PLAN. THE HOUSE GOES IN, BUT YOU'RE LEFT WITH THIS STEEP SLOPE IN THE BACK. THERE'S ANYTHING GROWING ON THAT AT THE MOMENT? YEAH, THERE'S VEGETATION THERE. NOW TREES WITH GOOD ROOTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, OR THE LOT HAS NOT BEEN CLEARED. THEY HAVE NOT, YEAH, IT'S ALL FOREST ANYTHING YET RIGHT NOW IT'S STILL WAS RAINING. OKAY. UM, JUST WHY DO WE HAVE A LIMIT OF SIX FEET? I DON'T HAVE A GOOD ANSWER FOR YOU ON THAT. UM, I'M ASSUMING IT'S BASED ON THE, UH, THE LIMITATIONS OF THE HEIGHT. IT'S BASED ON UNBALANCED FIELD, TYPICALLY IN CONSTRUCTION. UH, SO YOU DON'T, THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN ENGINEERING DESIGN ANYWAY. SO ONCE THESE WALLS GET A CERTAIN HEIGHT, YOU DON'T WANT THE MATERIAL BEHIND IT. IF THE WALL, FOR EXAMPLE, IS HERE, YOU DON'T WANT THE SLOPE UP HERE. SO IF YOU HAD A WALL LIKE THIS, THE SLOPE HAD TO BEHIND IT WOULD BE LIKE THAT. SO SIX FOOT IS USUALLY BASED ON THE SOIL CONDITIONS IN THIS AREA, DICTATED BASICALLY A SIX FOOT WALL. TYPICALLY COMMERCIAL AREAS IN TOWN, THEY CAN, UH, COMMERCIAL BUILDING, THEY CAN GO HIGHER THAN SIX FEET, BUT THE CODE LIMITS THAT TO SIX FEET IN RESIDENTIAL. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ALSO A SAFETY REASON, BUT WITH THAT SIX FOOT HIGH, THEY'LL HAVE TO PUT A RAILING, THE BUILDING CODE'S GONNA DICTATE THAT THEY PUT A RAILING, UH, ON THAT WALL ANYWAY. BUT I DON'T HAVE A CLEAR CUT ANSWER WHY IT WAS ADOPTED AT SOME POINT IN THE PAST. SOMEONE DID AN ANALYSIS LONG BEFORE US. OKAY. AND THEY, THEY CAME UP, CAME UP WITH THAT. BUT LIKE I SAY, IT STILL HAS TO BE ENGINEERED FOR THAT SIX FEET. IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN WHAT, UH, THAT WAS PART OF THE, THIS CAME OUT WITH THE MATH. WELL, WHY YOU, IF YOU INCREASE IT, HOW MUCH FORCE IS ACTUALLY INCREASED BEHIND THE WALL? YEAH. YOU'RE INTERESTED IN DOING A LITTLE MATH THAT GOES ON, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS FOR EVERY THREE FEET TALLER, YOU, YOU INCREASE THE FORCE BY NINE TIMES. MM-HMM . SO THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT. THEN HAVE THE ENGINEERS WERE ARE SUPPOSED THAT THEN YOU HAVE TO ENGINEER TO ENGINEER BEHIND THAT. OKAY. AND THAT'S WHERE THE GEOTECH REPORT COMES IN, BECOMES IMPORTANT TOO. AND THE DIFFERENCE, HOW MUCH SPACE IS THERE BETWEEN THAT RETAINING WALL IN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE? UH, I BELIEVE THE PLANS CALLED FOR 10 FEET. I'D HAVE TO LOOK, UH, THE LITTLE SKI ON THAT DRAWING. BUT I BELIEVE IT'S 10 FOOT. THE TWO SAFETY ISSUES WOULD BE ADDRESSED BY A DIFFERENT, THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. BUILDING DEPARTMENT. WE'RE NOT GONNA WORRY ABOUT THAT. THE ENGINEERING, [00:35:01] THE, THE RAILING UP TOP, ALL THAT. YOU'RE JUST, AND IT DOESN'T, I'LL BE HONEST, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE FOR THIS BODY OR FOR TOWN COUNCIL CERTAINLY TO BE MAKING ENGINEERING DECISIONS. NO, WE'RE NOT THE ABSENCE OF AN ENGINEER. WE WANNA MAKE SURE THEY'RE DONE, NOT MAKE THE DECISION THEMSELVES. RIGHT. IT'S THE LAST TIME WE HAD A GEOTECHNICAL REPORT IN FRONT OF US WITH, IN REGARDS TO STEVE SLOPES. UM, EVEN THOSE OF US WHO WERE NOT PARTICULARLY VERSED FOUND CERTAIN ASPECTS. INTERESTING. WE'LL CALL IT. UM, AS THE PERSON WHO'S THE MOST VERSED IN THESE, IN READING THROUGH THE REPORT, WAS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU FOUND? THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS. COUPLE THINGS I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE DO. OVERALL, IT WAS AN EXCELLENT REPORT AND I IT SEEMED MUCH, IT WAS, IT WAS A VERY, VERY GOOD REPORT. THEY DID A VERY GOOD JOB. AND I, I, FOR THE LAST TIME AROUND, I'M NOT SAYING THROWING STONES OR ANYTHING, BUT IT WAS, UM, IT WAS SLANTED SOMEWHAT TOWARD, I, I'M NOT GONNA GO INTO IT, BUT THIS, THIS ONE WAS DONE CORRECTLY WITH THE ASSUMPTION, BUT IT, THE GEOTECH, THEY SET OUT RECOMMENDATIONS. MM-HMM . WE, BUT I THINK IT'S UP TO US TO MAKE SURE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE FOLLOWED OR THEY ARE FOLLOWED, COME BACK WITH A REASON WHY. AND THOSE WEREN'T MY CONDITIONS. I WAS PROPOSE AND I I CAN, I'LL PASS IT OUT. THESE ARE SOME CONDITIONS I WOULD THINKING APPLY TO JUST A, AS A CONSIDERATION. I'LL DO THAT FOR YOU. AND I'LL SHARE THIS WITH YOU. . I, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING HERE. UM, YEAH. I MEAN, WHAT I WOULD HATE TO SEE IS, YOU KNOW, APPROVING SOMETHING AND THEN IT DOESN'T WORK AND THEN IT COMES BACK AGAIN OR IT DOESN'T WORK, AND THEN SOMETHING ELSE IS DONE AND NO ONE'S TOLD ABOUT IT. IT IS FRUSTRATING FROM THE POINT OF VIEW. WE'RE NOT OUT THERE WATCHING THE INSPECTIONS BEING DONE AND ISN'T BEING DONE RIGHT. BUT THAT'S, WE'RE NOT OBJECT. UH, NUMBER TWO, UH, ANY CHANGES TO THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT RECOMMENDATIONS IN THE GEOTECHNICAL REPORT BE APPROVED BY TOWN'S PLANNING AND ZONING DEPARTMENT AND WARREN COUNTY BUILDING INSPECTION? I, I, I THINK YOU NEED TO REMOVE THE TOWN PLANNING AND ZONING. WE DON'T. I, I'LL, I'LL TELL YOU WHY. I, I'LL WHAT I WAS THINKING WHAT THE, THE D FROM THE NORMAL, UH, RETENTION POND TYPE THING, AND THEY WERE RECOMMENDING A CLAY BASED DESIGN IN THIS, WHICH IS DIFFERENT NOW. THEY DIDN'T SPECIFY. SEE, THE ONE THING, THEY'RE, THEY'RE AFRAID OF RAPID ABSORPTION BECAUSE IT'S A GRANULAR SOIL OR RAPID RUNOFF CAUSING A PROBLEM. THEY WANT THE WATER TO SIT FOR A WHILE AND SLOW, SLOW DOWN. SO THAT, THAT WAS WHY IT WAS IMPORTANT. I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR THE TOWN TO KNOW THAT THAT DID INDEED HAPPEN. THAT'S WHY I THINK YOU WOULD BE INVOLVED. THAT'S MY REASON. SO THEN MAYBE REVIEWED BY THE TOWN'S PLANNING AND ZONING DEPARTMENT AND APPROVED BY, WELL, I, YOU DON'T WANT TO AGREE ON WHAT THE CONDITIONS NO, I'M JUST SAYING CIRCULATE IDEAS, I'LL IDEAS. IS IT SOMETHING TO BE LEGALLY ALLOWABLE? WHETHER OR NOT WE AGREE, JUST IF YOU HAVE TO MASSAGE IT, THAT'S FINE. BUT THESE ARE JUST SUGGESTIONS. JUST SO ONE THING ON THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT PLAN, WHEN THEY FURNISHED A GEOTECHNIC REPORT, THAT REPORT IS REVIEWED BY THE VALLEY REGIONAL OFFICE OF BEQ. THEY'RE IN CHARGE OF STORMWATER MANAGEMENT WITHIN THE TOWN. SO THEY REVIEW THE GEO TECHNICAL REPORT AND THEY REVIEW THE DESIGN BY THE ENGINEER OF THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FUND. THEY HAVE MADE COMMENTS TO THAT, UH, FOR CORRECTIONS, WHATEVER THOSE MAY BE. THEY HAVE TO RESUBMIT TO DEQ THEMSELVES. THEY REVIEW THIS ALL BASED ON THE GEO TECHNICAL REPORT AND THE MANAGEMENT PLAN FOR STORM WATER. ALL, ALL WE'RE ASKING IS, WELL, WE SUGGESTING IS MADE, MADE AWARE THAT THOSE THINGS HAPPENED. OKAY. THAT THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT IS. SO WE HAVE, WE HAVE NOTHING. THE COUNTY DOES NOT REVIEW IT, NOR DOES THE TOWN REVIEW THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT. OKAY. THAT, THAT IS REVIEWED BY THE STATE ON THAT, ON THAT. AND JUST SO WE DON'T REVIEW THAT. I THINK WE NEED TO BE AWARE, ESPECIALLY SINCE THIS IS PLUGGED IN THE MIDDLE OF AN EXISTING AREA, THE RUNOFF IS, COULD BE QUITE PROBLEMATIC. THIS, THE GEOTECH, IT ACTUALLY IMPROVES THE RUNOFF IN THE AREA. IF I READ IT CORRECTLY, FROM, FROM WHAT IT WOULD'VE BEEN WITH, WITH ITS RETAINING WALL. THAT PLAN. YES. YES. THE EXCEPT APPLICATION ASKS FOR UP TO A MAXIMUM OF 10 FEET. BUT THE DRAWINGS THEY PROVIDED ONLY GO UP TO EIGHT AND A HALF. DO WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OR REASON FOR THAT DISCREPANCY? THEY ARE WORKING ON THE DESIGN OF THE RETAINING WALL. SURE. AS WE SEE, UH, THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IT WOULD EXCEED 10 FEET. THEY DID PUT THAT APPLICATION IN THE MAXIMUM OF 10. RIGHT. SO IT GIVES 'EM A LITTLE BIT OF LEEWAY BETWEEN A SIX AND 10 TO COME UP WITH THE DESIGN OF THE WALL. MM-HMM . THEY DIDN'T WANNA ASK FOR, FOR EXAMPLE, EIGHT, THEN THEY NEEDED EIGHT FOOT, TWO INCHES. RIGHT. UH, SO THE NOT, UH, BASE ON THE PRELIMINARY DESIGN, IT WOULD NOT BE APPROACHING 10 FEET. IT'S GONNA BE AROUND THE EIGHT OR THE EIGHT AND A HALF AS OF NOW. YEAH. AND THIS IS ONLY FOR THIS [00:40:01] PROJECT. RIGHT. YOU'RE NOT CHANGING TOWN CODE FOR FUTURE PROJECTS JUST BASED FOR THIS ONE. AND IT'S ONLY FOR THESE LOTS IN PARTICULAR. YES. I MEAN THE, THE, THEY WOULD BE INCENTIVIZED TO HAVE AS FEW RETAINING WALLS AS POSSIBLE DUE TO THE COST. AND THEN LATER ON, THE DIFFICULTY TO SELL, I MEAN, THESE ARE GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, 6, 8, 10 FOOT WALLS DIRECTLY BEHIND YOUR HOUSE. HAVE FUN GETTING LIGHT BACK THERE. BUT, UM, OKAY. ALL THE ONES THAT CALLED THE MIRANDA HOMES SOLD THE TWO WALLS BEHIND THEM TOO. I REMEMBER. YEAH. YEAH. IT'LL, IT'LL HAPPEN, BUT, OKAY. HOW MANY THE, THE TWO, THESE TWO LOTS. BUT ARE THERE MORE LOTS OF OUT THE TOTAL NUMBER OF LAPS. HOW MANY ARE AFFECTED BY THIS, THIS PIPE THAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR? THEY, THEY MAY HAVE TO CHANGE SOMETHING HERE. WE DON'T THINK SO. BUT WE DID MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. THEY INCLUDE THIS LOT NUMBER THREE WITHIN THAT. SO THERE, IF THEY HAD TO MAKE ANY CHANGES WITH THE GRADING HERE AT THIS WALL, IT MAY AFFECT THE WALL NEXT DOOR. MORE THAN LIKELY. NO. BUT THERE'S ALWAYS A CH ALWAYS A CHANCE THAT THIS MAY HAVE TO BE RAISED HERE. SO IT'S JUST THESE TWO LOTS HERE. POTENTIALLY THIS THIRD ONE. AND THESE LOTS, THESE LOTS HERE. THE REST OF 'EM, THEY CAN MAKE THE GRADING, UH, WITH THE NOT TO EXCEED A SIX FOOT AND HEIGHT FOR THESE WALLS HERE. OKAY. AND THAT ONE ON THE END IS GONNA BE A QUARTER. A QUARTER RETAINING THE WALL. YEAH. DAVID HAD TO CAUSE THE SLOPE HERE COMING AROUND THE SIDE. YES. THE CONCEPT IS GOOD. I THINK CONCEPT, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO ENGINEER IT IN ORDER TO MAKE IT WORK. HAVE TO CHALLENGE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS? OKAY. OKAY. BEFORE WE MOVE ON THOUGH, REAL QUICK, THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT I HAD MEANT TO BRING UP IN THE PREVIOUS ONE THAT I FORGOT. UM, IN, UH, AND THIS IS MORE JUST AS A POINT OF CLARITY, UM, IN A LOT OF THE, UM, YOU KNOW, RESPONSES AND EMAILS FROM THE PUBLIC IN REGARDS TO THE REZONING APPLICATION, UH, OVER OFF OF GRAND. UM, THERE WERE SEVERAL COMMENTS ABOUT A LACK OF ADVERTISEMENTS. AND I JUST WANT TO, UH, GET THAT POINT OF CLARITY ON WHEN EXACTLY THE ADVERTISING IS REQUIRED. UH, OR WHEN IT IS TRIGGERED FOR THAT TO HAPPEN. SORRY. WELL, IT HAD BEEN IN ONE OF, IN ONE OF PARTICULAR, BEEN REQUESTED TO REMOVE IT FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA DUE TO THE LACK OF ADVERTISEMENT INTO MY AWARENESS THAT IT IS NOT I UNDERSTANDING. OKAY. UM, GOOD. YOUR CONSENT TO ADVERTISE IS SIMPLY THAT THAT'S YES. US LETTING THE PLANNING COMMISSION KNOW THAT WE HAVE TAKEN IN AN APPLICATION AND YOU ARE DOING A VERY QUICK INITIAL GLANCE OVER AS WE JUST PUT THE APPLICATION IN PACKET, THEN YOU'RE SAYING, YES, WE'RE COMFORTABLE TO ADVERTISE EXACTLY. COMFORTABLE AT THIS POINT TO GO AHEAD AND SPEND THE MONEY AND WITH THE ANTICIPATION OF ACTUALLY HAVING THE HEARING ON THAT DATE. SO WE ARE NOT ADVERTISING IT FOR PUBLIC HEARING AT THAT POINT, BECAUSE YOU COULD GET INTO A WORK SESSION AND CHANGE YOUR MIND, BUT AT LEAST WE HAVE PUT IT IN FRONT OF YOU AND YOU'RE SAYING, YES, GO AHEAD. AND THE MONEY ADVERTISED IT. UM, AND THEN TODAY WE ACTUALLY WENT OUT AND PUT OUT THE PUBLIC HEARING SIGNS TO GIVE US WHAT, TWO WEEKS? TWO WEEKS PRIOR TO THE MEETING. THE MEETING. RIGHT. AND THE ADJACENT PROPERTY HONOR LETTERS WERE MAILED OUT LAST FRIDAY. MM-HMM . SO, SO IT WAS JUST, I THINK IT WAS JUST A MISUNDERSTANDING OF YEAH. AND, AND THAT'S SOME, THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN REASON WHY I WANTED TO BRING IT UP. 'CAUSE I, I DO REALLY APPRECIATE THE AMOUNT OF FEEDBACK THAT HAS BEEN, THAT WAS RECEIVED. BUT WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT WAS, OKAY, LET'S, LET'S MAKE SURE THAT WE ALL UNDERSTAND IT. 'CAUSE IT CAN BE CONFUSING. WHEN IS IT A HEARING? WHEN IS IT JUST CONSENT? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? TECHNICALLY, I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE PUT THAT USED TO A LOT OF THINGS INTO THE PACKET FOR TONIGHT. BUT, UM, WE'VE HAD SO MUCH. SURE. YEAH. SO I HAVE A COMMENT ON THAT. SO THAT THAT'S NOT THE, THAT'S NOT THE PROCESS FOR OBTAINING PUBLIC INPUT ON A LAND USE ISSUE. RIGHT. AND IT, YEAH, THE ONLY REASON WHY I BROUGHT IT UP IS TO HELP THE PUBLIC UNDER THAT WAS MY GOAL. I I'M JUST MAKING A GENERAL POINT ABOUT, UH, OUTSIDE COMMUNICATIONS CITIZENS ARE FREE TO COMMUNICATE WITH THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS, APPOINTED OFFICIALS. YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S FINE. BUT AS FAR AS, AS FAR AS TREATING IT AS PUBLIC INPUT ON A MATTER THAT'S HEADED FOR PUBLIC HEARING, IT, IT'S, IT'S THE, THE INPUT IS, IS FROM THE PUBLIC APPEARING AT THE PUBLIC HEARING. YES. SO, SO IN OTHER WORDS, THE LETTERS YOU MAY NOT BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. WELL, WELL, THEY, THEY, THEY BECOME PUBLIC RECORD JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE EMAILED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION. YEAH. AND SO THEY BECOME PUBLIC [00:45:01] RECORD. THAT DOESN'T NE THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY'RE AUTOMATICALLY PART OF THE RECORD FOR THE LAND USE CASE. RIGHT. OKAY. THAT COMES THROUGH THE PUBLIC HEARING MM-HMM . AND SO I, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO OTHER, OTHERWISE YOU, YOU LOSE THE INTEGRITY OF THE PROCESS. THE IMPORTANT THING IS, IS THEY CAN SEND YOU ALL THE EMAILS THEY WANT TO, BUT IT, THEY STILL NEED TO, THEY NEED TO SHOW UP HEARINGS. THAT'S PUBLIC COMMENT, ESSENTIALLY. YES. I MEAN IT'S NO, IN THAT WAY IT'S SIMILAR TO THE PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WERE AT THE LAST HEARINGS, UM, IN REGARD TO. OKAY. OKAY. MOVING ON TO OUR FAVORITE, UH, TOWN CODE SECTION 1 75, PLEASE. I'LL START YACKING WHILE THEY'RE TALKING THEN. OKAY. WELL, ERROR EMAIL, PLEASE. WORK SESSION BUSINESS ITEM NUMBER 4 25 DOUBLE C, ROAD 3 1 9. UH, IF YOU SHOULD BE QUITE FAMILIAR WITH THIS TEXT AMENDMENT AT THE TEXT AMENDMENT TOWN CODE SECTIONS 1 75 3 FOR DEFINITIONS TO DEFINE THE USE OF A AUXILIARY DWELLING UNIT. UH, YOU FOLKS WORKED ON THIS FOR SOME TIME. UH, THAT AFFECTS CODE 1 75 11 1 75 12 A 1 75 18 2 A AND 1 75 21 75 29 A AND 1 75 37 0.3 A, UH, TO ADD AUS BY RIGHT USE IN THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS. AND TO ESTABLISH 1 75 1 1 5, THE AUXILIARY DWELLING UNIT PERFORMANCE STANDARDS WITHIN THE SUPPLEMENTARY PROVISIONS OF TOWN CODE. UM, INITIALLY YOU ALL, UH, UH, RECOMMENDED APPROVAL AS IT WAS WRITTEN, UH, WITH SOME MODIFICATIONS YOU MADE ALONG THE LINE DURING THE DISCUSSIONS OF WORK SESSIONS AND, UH, FORWARD THAT TO TOWN COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL. UH, THEY DID READ OVER THAT. UH, AND THEN THEY, THEY HAD SOME OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS. SO THAT IS BROUGHT BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO MAKE CHANGES. THAT WAS, I BELIEVE, IN DECEMBER. UH, SO YOU WORKED ON THAT IN THE MONTH OF JANUARY. SO ESSENTIALLY WE'RE CHANGING THE DEFINITION OR OF STRIKING PART OF IT FOR THE ACCESSORY USE. THAT RED LINE LANGUAGE WOULD COME OUT AND WE WOULD ADD A DEFINITION DEFINING WHAT AN A DU OR NOTARY DWELLING UNIT IS. SO THAT WOULD BE THE CHANGES OF 1 75 STRIKING OUT THE RED LINE ITEMS AND ADDING A NEW DEFINITION. UH, SO IT'S, IT IS IN CONFLICT. THIS PART, PART OF IT'S IN CONFLICT WITH TOWN CODE BECAUSE HERE TOWN UNFORTUNATELY REFERENCES AS 500 SQUARE FOOT UNDER THE DEFINITION TOWN SQUARE REQUIRES IT TO BE 600. SO WE'RE CHANGING PART OF THE CODE STRIKING OUT, WHICH IS IN CONFLICT WITH OTHER PARTS OF THE TOWN CODE. UH, SO THEN WE WOULD BE ADDING THESE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. SO THOSE, UH, WOULD BE BY RIGHT IN THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS. UM, IN THE R ONE, R ONE A, R TWO, R THREE, AND P AND D, UH, THEY HAVE TO BE LOCATED, BASICALLY WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH THIS. UH, WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING IS THE A DU TO BE LOCATED ON THE SAME LOT AS A SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DWELLING. UH, SO THOSE WOULD NOT, EVEN THOUGH, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU COULD BE ZONED R TWO FOR A DUPLEX, UH, BUT THAT WOULD NOT ALLOW TO SOMEONE TO ESTABLISH AN A DU THAT IS NOT A SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DWELLING. UH, SO ONLY ONE A DU PER RESIDENTIAL LOT. UH, ONE OR THE OTHER HAS TO BE OWNER OCCUPIED. THE MAIN HOUSE OR THE A DU HAS TO BE OWNER OCCUPIED. THAT'S UNDER B. AND CHANGES THAT YOU PROPOSE IS THE APPLICANT SHALL SUBMIT A NOTARIZED STATEMENT ATTESTING TODAY OF RESIDING ON THE PROPERTY IN EITHER THE PRIMARY OR THE AUXILIARY DWELLING UNIT. UH, C, THE A DU CANNOT EXCEED A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET OR 800 OR 80% OF THE GROSS FLOOR AREA OF THE PRINCIPAL DWELLING, WHICHEVER IS LESS. UH, AND THE A DU HAS TO BE A MINIMUM OF 600 SQUARE FEET DETACHED. UH, WHETHER IT'S DETACHED OR AN INTERIOR ONE, UH, THE A DU MUST FOLLOW THE UNDERLYING ZONING DISTRICT REQUIREMENTS. [00:50:01] SETBACKS LOT COVERAGE, APPEARANCE AND HEIGHT HAZARD ARE FOR DETACHED ONES. AND A DETACHED, A DU SHALL NOT EXCEED THE MAXIMUM LOT, UH, SQUARE FOOTAGE COVERAGE IN THE DISTRICT. AS PART OF THE PROCESS TOWN STAFF WILL CONDUCT INSPECTION PRIOR TO FINAL APPROVAL. UH, STAFF WILL CONTACT A PROPERTY OWNER TO SCHEDULE AN ANNUAL INSPECTION TO RECERTIFY. THE A DU IS COMPLIANT WITH CODE, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION WAS ENFORCEMENT. SO THESE ARE, UH, CHANGES THAT, UH, WE WORKED ON TO, UH, FOR ENFORCEMENT ISSUES. UH, THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR DESIGNEE MAY INSPECT A PROPERTY. THERE'S COMPLAINT REGISTER WITH THE TOWN WHERE IT'S OFFICIAL HAS ANOTHER REASON TO BELIEVE THE OWNER OR OCCUPANTS ARE A VIOLATION OF THE A DU APPROVAL. UH, THE OWNER SHALL MAKE PROVISIONS TO ALLOW INSPECTIONS OF THE PROPERTY BY TOWN PERSONNEL DURING REASONABLE HOURS AND WITH PRIOR NOTICE. AND THE A DU SHALL MEET THE APPLICABLE REGULATIONS FOR SAFETY, HEALTH SANITATION THROUGH THE APPROPRIATE COUNTY AGENCIES. AND UPON TRANSFER OF SUBJECT PROPERTY THAT NEW OWNERS SHALL BE BE REQUIRED IN WRITING TO CERTIFY IN WRITING TO THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR THAT EITHER THE CONTINUED USE OF THE A DU WILL COMPLY WITH CONDITIONS OF THE PREVIOUS APPROVAL OR ITEM NUMBER TWO, THAT A DU WILL NO LONGER BE USED AS A SEPARATE DWELLING UNIT. SO THOSE WERE ENFORCEMENT MEASURES, UH, CONSIDERATIONS THAT WE CAME UP WITHIN THE LAST, UH, DECEMBER AND JANUARY WORKING ON THIS, UH, FROM RECOMMENDATIONS FROM TOWN COUNCIL. UM, DO WE HAVE THAT APPLICATION? YEP. I SAVED IT TOO OVER HERE AFTER YOU READ IT TO ME. OKAY. SO WE DO PULL IT UP. SO THAT WAS A RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION THAT THESE WOULD BE BY RIGHT. IN THESE ZONING DISTRICTS. UM, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE TO MEET THOSE OTHER CONDITIONS IN THE PROVISIONS FOR ENFORCEMENT. WAIT, CONNIE, THIS IS WHAT YOU EMAILED ME THE RIGHT ONE. I JUST MADE A CHANGE 'CAUSE I STILL ON ERROR, SO. OH, OKAY. WELL WE CAN CHANGE IT. WELL, OKAY, THAT'S FINE. YOU CAN CHANGE IT UP THERE. THAT'S OKAY. WHAT, WHATEVER'S EASIER. WHATEVER YOU WANT ME TO DO. YOU WANT TO SCROLL? UH, WHAT DO YOU WANT CHANGED, LAUREN? SO, IN THE PROJECT DESCRIPTION, I ADDED A BLOCK THAT SAYS CESSATION OF A DU. SO THAT LIKE IF YOU KNOW EACH WHERE WE'RE PROPOSING THAT EACH YEAR THEY MAYBE COME BACK AND RECERTIFY, THEY, WE COULD JUST USE THE SAME FORM. UM, BECAUSE THE IDEA WOULD BE THAT, YOU KNOW, STAFF WOULD CALL THEM AND SAY, HEY, COME BACK AND PLEASE RECERTIFY. I WOULD HAVE THIS FORM READY FOR THEM AND THEN THEY COULD HAVE A NOTARY SIGN IT THAT THEY ARE TESTING THAT EVERYTHING IS THE SAME AND THAT THEY'RE CONTINUING TO HAVE IT AS AN OWNER OCCUPIED PROPERTY. SO THEY'RE EITHER LIVING IN THE A DU OR THEY'RE LIVING IN THE MAIN OR THE PRIMARY DWELLING. YOU WANNA SLIDE THAT UP THE TOP? WE COULD START AT THE TOP A LITTLE BIT. MM-HMM . BY THE FORM. YEAH. READ MOST PROBABLY DIDN'T. SO BASICALLY THEY SUBMIT THIS TYPE OF APPLICATION, PROPERTY OWNER NAME, MAILING ADDRESS, OBVIOUSLY STATE, YOU KNOW, TYPICAL STUFF, PROPERTY INFORMATION WITH THE TAX ID NUMBER, TAX MAP ID NUMBER, THE ZONING DISTRICT, THE LOT SIZE. IF YOU SCROLL DOWN, WE, THEY WOULD GIVE A PROJECT DESCRIPTION. CAN YOU SCROLL WITH YOUR THING? THE RIGHT ARROW? I'M SORRY, WHAT DID YOU SAY? THE RIGHT ARROW. YEAH, THERE WE GO. UH, SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO TELL US IS IT A, WHAT TYPE OF A DU, IS IT DETACHED? UH, IS IT A NEW ONE? IF IT'S A NEW ONE, IT'S GONNA REQUIRE A ZONING PERMIT, OBVIOUSLY A BUILDING PERMIT FOR THAT. UM, OR THEY'RE GOING TO DO A CONVERSION OR RENOVATIONS IN THE INTERIOR. UH, THAT WOULD REQUIRE A MINOR ZONING PERMIT BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING STRUCTURAL ALTERATIONS INSIDE, UH, THE DWELLING UNIT. UH, AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO GIVE US THE PROPOSED A DU. THAT'S WHERE YES, NEW IMPLIES DETACHED. IT COULD BE INTERNAL OR IS THAT A CONVERSION NEW OR CONVERSION. SO MY INTENT WAS THAT THAT NEW AND CONVERSION WOULD BE UNDER THE DETACHED BECAUSE IF IT'S INTERNAL, IT'S NOT A NEW STRUCTURE. IT'S, OKAY. SO NEW AND CONVERSION OR SUB SUB HEADS OF DETACHED. SO YOU CAN JUST THAT OVER THAT. OVER OVER. UH, THEN WE DO THE LOT SETBACKS AND COVERAGE LIKE WE DO FOR ALL, UH, STRUCTURES. UH, THEN DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE A DU, MAKE SURE IT MEETS THE PERCENT OF LOT COVERAGE IN THAT ZONING DISTRICT. UH, THEY TO TELL US THAT THEY'RE WANTING A NEW WATER AND SEWER CONNECTION. [00:55:02] UH, AND ELECTRIC. YES. SORRY. UM, I'M JUST TRYING TO REMEMBER IS, ARE THERE ANY DIRECTIVES ON DETERMINING THAT PERCENTAGE FOR LOT COVERAGE? IT'S IN EACH ZONING DISTRICT. IT'S IN EACH ZONING DISTRICT. YES. EACH ZONING DISTRICT GIVES US, UH, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF BUILDING COVERAGE OR STRUCTURE COVERAGE WITHIN EACH ZONING DISTRICT. OKAY. SO WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK WHAT ZONING DISTRICT IT IS. FOR EXAMPLE, IF IT'S 35% OF BUILDING COVERAGE, WE'D HAVE TO TAKE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE PRIMARY DWELLING, ALL ACCESSORY DWELLINGS THAT THEY HAVE THAT ARE NOW GARAGE OR OUTBUILDINGS. THEN SEE IF THE NEW A DU ON SITE WOULD BE STILL UNDER THE PERCENT OF COVERAGE. GOTCHA. WE'D HOPEFULLY WOULD WORK THAT OUT DURING THE APPLICATION IF THEY WOULD COME IN. SO WE WOULD DO THOSE NUMBERS, SEE IF DURING THE PERMITTING PROCESS, UM, THEY'D ALSO HAVE TO BAIL US AT A DU OR THE PRIMARY GONNA BE OWNER OCCUPIED. WHICH ONE? UH, THEY WOULD ALSO KNOW THAT A DU, UH, SHORT TERM RENTAL, IF EITHER THE A DU WOULD BE USED FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL, UH, THEY WOULD HAVE TO SUBMIT A, YOU KNOW, HOUSE LOCATION SURVEY PLAT, UH, FLOOR PLANS AND UTILITY PLANS. IF THEY'RE GONNA DO ONE THAT, UH, WOULD WORK FOR THAT. I MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR THAT QUESTION INSTEAD OF SAYING, WILL THE A DU BE USED FOR THIS? BUT IS IT, COULD WE SAY, WILL THE A DU BE INTENDED FOR SHORT TERM RENTAL USE? BECAUSE THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCESS AND SAY, ARE YOU INTENDING TO DO THIS? YEAH. WITH THIS STRUCTURE. YEAH. UM, AND, AND THEN ON THE ABOVE ONE, I ALSO UNDER SEVEN, IT'S UNCLEAR IS THE A DU OR THE PRIMARY DWELLING TO BE UNOCCUPIED? YES. WELL, DOES YES MEAN THE A DU IS GONNA BE UNDER OCCUPIED? IT WOULD BE EITHER ONE, BE EITHER ONE. DOESN'T MATTER. YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW WHICH IT IS WORDS THAT'S EASILY CHANGED. I THERE'S NO REASON. OKAY. AS AS THAT'S, AS LONG AS THERE WAS NO, NOBODY WAS TRYING TO FIND OUT WHICH IT WAS. OKAY. BECAUSE THAT QUESTION WILL NOT TELL YOU WHICH IT WAS. UH, OKAY. AND WE'D ALSO HAVE THE, UH, NUMBER NINE FOR OWNER OCC OCCUPATION, OCCUPANCY, UH, CERTIFICATION. UH, THEY, THEY'D HAVE TO SIGN THAT AGREE TO THE TERMS THERE, UM, WITH THAT PART OF THE, UH, APPLICATION. UH, THEN WE HAVE THE SIGNATURE BLOCK THERE. UH, AND THE NOTARY ALSO WOULD'VE TO BE DONE. THEY'RE GONNA SIGN IN AND HAVE THAT NOTARIZED WITH THE APPLICATION. SO THAT WAS PART OF THE ENFORCEMENT RECOMMENDATION OR ENFORCEMENT QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS FROM TOWN COUNCIL, HOW THIS WOULD BE A RECORD VIOLATION. LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT THERE. . UH, THIS IS FOR ENFORCEMENT. THAT IS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS. YEAH. AND THIS IS ENFORCEMENT. THAT WAS ONE OF THE CONCERNS OR CONCERNS, VOICE FOR DOING THIS THINGS TOGETHER. SO WE'LL PUT THIS TOGETHER. UH, HAVE THAT, UM, PART OF YOUR RE UH, WITH THE PACKET, UH, LIKE A TYPICAL APPLICATION. UM, WITH THAT, IF YOU NEED, UH, PLEASE REVIEW THAT. IF YOU NEED TO MAKE ANY SUGGESTIONS OR SOMETHING, UH, WE'LL, YOU KNOW, GET THAT BACK TO US AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. IF YOU THINK THERE, I'LL HURRY IT UP TONIGHT. BUT IT'S TELLING ME THAT THERE'S SOME LOCK ON BOARD AND I CAN'T THROW MY WATER MONITOR. OKAY. WE'LL GET THAT OUT THIS WEEK BECAUSE THE PACKETS NEED TO GO OUT. WE'LL TRY TO GET THAT OUT THIS WEEK. UH, SO YOU CAN REVIEW THAT, BE IN THE PACKET IN THE FOLLOWING WEEK. UM, ANY DISCUSSION ON USE? AND THE, UH, LETTER OR THE, THE MEMO THAT, UM, THAT NEIL HAD WRITTEN HERE IS WITH, AS WE SEE IT IN THE PACKET, WOULD ALSO BE PART OF WHAT WE'RE APPROVING TO STAND ALONG TO COUNSEL. OKAY. AND ONE OF THE, WE, THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF WORK BEEN DONE ON THIS. OBVIOUSLY IF WE'VE GONE BACK AND FORTH SINCE OUR THIRD GO AROUND AND SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WOULD COME UP LIKE WERE HANDLED IN THE CHARTS A MONTH OR TWO AGO OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IS THAT EVENTUALLY GONNA MAKE IT THROUGH THE PROCESS? SO TOWN COUNCIL WILL SEE IT? OR IS I I DON'T HOW TO THIS BEEN MUCH. I CAN PACKAGE IT UP AND SEND IT OVER TO TOWN COUNCIL WHEN WE SEND YOUR FINAL VERSION OVER TO THEM SO WE DON'T GO THROUGH. 'CAUSE IT WOULD'VE HAVE ONE LITANY WHERE WE ADDRESS EACH QUESTION ONE AT A TIME IN THE, IN THE CHARTS. MM-HMM . SO SOME VERSION OF THAT. IT SHOULD BE EVENTUALLY MADE AVAILABLE TO THEM SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO ASK THE SAME QUESTION. DO YOU WANT THAT SENT TO COUNSEL? WE CAN SEND THAT TO COUNSEL WHEN WE SEND, GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT JUST TO CLEAN IT UP OR SOMETHING. 'CAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY IT WAS ANYTHING BUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I WOULD THINK WE WOULD WANT TO MAKE SURE THOSE, I THINK LIKE THE JUSTIFICATION OF WHY THIS IS STILL RECOMMENDED TO BE BY. RIGHT. AND YEAH, I THINK THAT'S GOOD. AND THAT, THAT THAT'S JUST EXPANDING ON YOUR RECOMMENDATION. YEAH. ON THIS BODY'S [01:00:01] RECOMMENDATION. YOU'VE GOT THE TEXT MM-HMM . AND, AND YOU CAN ADD TO IT. YEAH. UH, AND YOU'RE JUST GIVING IN THE CONTEXT. YOU'RE GIVING THEM THE WHY, LIKE, THIS IS WHY WE RECOMMEND IT THIS WAY. 'CAUSE THIS HAS BEEN SO MUCH. I WANT TO MAKE SURE ALL THE WHYS ARE, AND I MEAN TOO IS YOU SOLD TONIGHT. IT'S IN THE CONFERENCE PLAN THAT A D IS BE BY. RIGHT. SO I KNOW RIGHT NOW. SO ANYWAY, THANK YOU VERY THANK YOU. THANK EVERYBODY. THANKS EVERYBODY FOR ALL THE HOURS OF WORK. I NEED YOU. OKAY. WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE ANYTHING ADDED WITH THESE APPLICATIONS FOR PUBLIC HEARING? WE TRY TO JUST, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT THE ACTUAL PACKET THAT GOES OUT. I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY COMPREHENSIVE. DO YOU WANT ANYTHING ELSE ADDED TO YOUR PACKET FOR REVIEW? EVERYTHING NEED? YES SIR. I'M GOOD. SO WE CAN, WE CAN REFER TO, AND I'M ASSUMING THE, UH, THE APPLICANT'S FOR THE, UH, WILL BE AT THE PUBLIC HEARING. I MEAN, WE REACH OUT AND WE GIVE THEM THE TIME SO THAT FOR ESPECIALLY, UH, YOU MAY WANT TO ADD QUESTIONS. UM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE REZONING. UH, MORE SPECIFICALLY FOR THE RETAINING WALL. I'M ASSUMING THE ENGINEER WILL BE ON SITE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, UH, FOR THAT. UM, BUT AGAIN, JUST WHEN THAT RETAINING WALL, IT'S, THEY'RE GONNA BUILD A RETAINING WALL, WHETHER IT'S A SIX FOOT OR EIGHT FOOT HEIGHT. WE WOULD ONLY APPROVE EVENTUALLY THE LOCATION OF THE RETAINING WALL. UH, THEY WOULD'VE TO GET SEPARATE BUILDING PERMITS. THEY'D GET A BUILDING PERMIT FOR THE HOUSE. EVENTUALLY THEY WOULD GET A SEPARATE BUILDING PERMIT FOR RETAINING WALL OR A ZONING APPROVAL TO OBTAIN THE BUILDING PERMIT FROM THE COUNTY. THE COUNTY WOULD REVIEW THE, UH, USE A GEOTECH REPORT IN THE DESIGN AND RETAINING WALL FOR THE PLACEMENT AND THE HEIGHT OF IT. UH, BUT THEY'RE ASKING FOR AN INCREASE IN THE HEIGHT. SO AS I SAID, IT'S NOT, AGAIN, I KNOW WE'RE NOT DOING THE ENGINEERING, BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THE ENGINEERING WAS DONE RIGHT. AND YOU, UH, I MEAN, I READ THROUGH THE REPORT AND, AND YOU FOUND THAT FAVORABLE. DID YOU TAKE THE REPORT? WAS IT PRETTY CON COMPREHENSIVE? YEAH. NO, I, THAT'S WHAT I SAID. I FOUND IT FAVORABLE. JUST A COUPLE OF STIPULATIONS THAT IT'D BE MASSAGED. THAT MIGHT BE WORTHWHILE. SORRY. IT'S OKAY. TIME TO ADJOURN. . ANY ANYTHING ELSE? HEARING, MOVE TO ADJOURN. MOTION TO ADJOURN. SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.