* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. OKAY. SESSION [00:00:01] FOR THE [Planning and Zoning Work Session on December 18, 2025.] PLANNING COMMISSION OF, WELL, WE'LL COME TO ORDER. MS. POTTER, PLEASE CALL OUR ROLE. THIS IS FOR DECEMBER 19TH, 18. EXCUSE ME. UM, COMMISSIONER MARRAZZO HERE. CHAIRMAN NER HERE. COMMISSIONER FEDERICA IS OUT TONIGHT. VICE CHAIRMAN NEIL. HERE. COMMISSIONER BROOKS IS OUT. WE HAVE A QUORUM. WE HAVE QUORUM. OKAY. UM, THE AGENDA HAS TWO ITEMS. I PROPOSE THAT WE TAKE ITEM NUMBER TWO AND DEAL WITH IT FIRST, BECAUSE THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE THE MOST ADDITION. AND THEN USE THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENTS TO CHAPTER 1 7 5 TO DEFINE THE USE OF AUXILIARY DWELLING. UM, MR. NEIL, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS? YOU WANT START OUT LAUREN, OR YOU WANT ME TO JUMP IN? GO AHEAD, GO AHEAD. AT THE TOWN COUNCIL MEETING, THIS WAS SENT BACK TO US AND IT WAS, THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION. IT WAS KIND OF THE LAST MINUTE. AND, UH, SO WHEN I SAY SOME CONFUSION, WE WEREN'T GIVEN CLEAR DIRECTION OF WHAT THE ISSUE WAS. THEY, WHY THEY WERE SENDING BACK TO US. SO SOME INFORMAL THINGS WERE REACH, REACHING OUT TO GET THE OPINIONS AND PLUS REVIEWING PREVIOUS WORKING GROUP MEETINGS, PUT TOGETHER A RESPONSE TO THAT. AND THAT'S WHAT THESE CHARTS ARE. AND IF YOU LIKE, I'LL WALK THROUGH THEM. WOULD THAT BE GOOD? PERFECT. IF WE TURN ON THE FIRST ONE, AND THIS IS LOOKING FOR YOUR, UM, YOUR BUY-IN PER SE. THIS IS A PROPOSED BUY-IN. IF YOU GO GO WITH, WE'LL TAKE THE DRAFTS OFFER, MAKE ANY CHANGES. THE GROUP HERE WANTS TO MAKE TO THEM OR TAKE A DIFFERENT PLAN. SO THE BACKGROUND AUTHORITY, THIS STARTED OUT WITH, THERE'S A VIRGINIA BILL OUT THERE THAT'S MADE AT 25 33, WHICH WAS KIND OF AN ENCOURAGEMENT TO THE, UM, TOWNS AND COUNTIES IN VIRGINIA TO START ADDRESSING THINGS FOR THESE, UH, THESE AFFORDABLE HOUSING RESIDENTIAL, UM, DWELLING UNITS. AND AS A PART OF THAT AND GOING ON WITHIN OUR OWN COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WE HAVE THE OBJECTIVES AND STRATEGIES THAT CALLS FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING, WHICH IS BASICALLY THE SAME THING. MR. NEIL, DID IT BECOME LAW? THIS THIS IS, THIS IS NOT A LAW LAW. THIS WAS AN ENCOURAGEMENT. THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL BILL THAT MADE IT THROUGH THE HOUSE, THE STATE HOUSE GOT TO THE STATE SENATE AND IS IN COMMITTEE AND HAS BEEN SITTING THERE. UM, SO IT HASN'T BEEN ANY FARTHER. SO IT HASN'T, THAT PART HASN'T BEEN LOST. THAT ONE WAS GOING TO MANDATE THAT THEY BE ALLOWED AND, AND NOT GIVE US ANY CHOICE. OKAY. BUT THIS DID PASS. THIS DID PASS. THIS WAS THE EARLIER ONE, BUT IT WAS A, IT WAS A CLARIFIES COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PREPARED BY LOCAL PLANNING COMMISSION ADOPTED BY MAY INCLUDE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS. IT DOESN'T SAY THAT YOU WILL. OKAY. THE BILL THAT GOT FILLED UP WAS MANDATING THAT WE DO IT. AND WHAT INTERESTING YOU, I WAS READING THE GOVERNOR, UM, THAT'S COMING IN. SHE, UH, THIS IS ONE OF HER PRIORITIES IS THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, ONE OF HER THREE PRIORITIES. SO I HAVE A HUNT. WE'LL SEE THIS AGAIN AT THE STATE LEVEL, BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE. WE'LL GO TO THE NEXT PAGE. IN OUR CURRENT A DUR ONE, WE DO ALLOW, UM, ADUS ARE ALLOWED IN R ONE. THEY'RE NOT CALLED ADUS AS PART OF THE ACCESSORY CONTROL UNIT, BUT UNDER 12,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT MINIMIZING PRODUCT. MINIMAL, EXCUSE ME, MAXIMUM OF 500 SQUARE FEET. BUT THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PROTECTIONS THAT WE BUILT INTO THIS A DU CLAUSE OR, AND IT'S A BIT SMALLER AND VERY LIMITED. UM, AND THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT THAT PAGE LEFT NO PROTECTIONS FOR LITTLE DRAWING UNIT CURRENTLY PROVIDED, STRETCH BEYOND A DU MODIES. THE TEXTS IN THIS SECTION TOO, REMOVE IT FROM, UM, ACCESSORY AND KEEPS IT UNDER THE A DUR ONE STATISTICS. THIS WAS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT CAME OUT OF, FROM THE TOWN COUNCIL, UM, FROM ONE OF THE MEMBERS. THEY WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THE R ONE ZONE, SO HOW MANY SIZES, HOW MANY LOTS MIGHT BE POTENTIALLY HAVING THESE SORT OF LOTS ON IT. AND, AND, UM, SO THAT'S WHAT ALL THIS WAS, JUST GETTING THE DISTANCE. SO IF YOU COULD SEE, THERE'S QUITE A FEW LOTS. THERE ARE ZONED THAT HAVE POTENTIAL. NOW THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE HOUSE. THIS DIDN'T CHECK TO SEE IF THE ALLOWABLE BUILDING FOOTPRINT OF A HOUSE WAS 10,000 SQUARE FEET, THAT THE HOUSE WASN'T 10,000 SQUARE FEET, WHICH WOULD MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD AN A DU. BUT, SO THIS, THIS JUST SAYING SOME OF THE POTENTIAL LOTS INSIDE. NEXT PAGE, WHAT'S THE REGULATION? THIS WAS KIND OF A RECAP FOR WHAT WE COVERED IN OUR WORKING GROUP MEETINGS, AND WE'LL PROPOSE BACK TO THEM. AND, UH, JUST SPEAKING BACK OF WHY THE, THE EU REGULATION WAS DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE, TO EXPAND THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, SUPPORT LOCAL FAMILIES AND AGING IN PLACE AND ENCOURAGE AUTONOMY AND DIGNITY. DIGNITY FOR PARTICIPANTS. AND IT'S A REITERATION WHAT WE COVERED BEFORE. AND AGAIN, IT'S A REITERATION OF WHAT THE A DU ORDINANCE PROVIDES SINCE AGAIN, WE'RE, WE'RE COVERING KIND OF QUITE A BIT OF GROUND HERE SINCE WE WEREN'T GIVEN CLEAR DIRECTION. SO THIS [00:05:01] IS, IT'S KIND BE APPROACHED. A DU ORDINANCE PERMITS THE AUXILIARY DWELLING, UM, UNIT FOR A LOT, AND ALL ZONING DISTRICTS FOR THE RESIDENTIAL HOUSING SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING. AND EACH OF THESE, AND IT'S GOT THE SAME LINES OF SIGNAL. FAMILY HOME MUST BE OWNER OCCUPIED, SECONDARY, INTERNAL, AND EXTERNAL. ADUS MUST MEET MEMO SIZE AND LIVABLE AMENITIES, INCLUDING KITCHEN, BATHROOM, LIVING AREAS, PRIVATE PROTECTION, SOMETHING THAT'S SPUN OUT LATER ON. I'LL JUST MENTION THIS NOW. WE WILL BE FOLLOWING THIS UP WITH A NEW DEFINITION OF WHAT A KITCHEN IS AT SOME POINT. BUT IT, IT WON'T ONLY, IT'LL IMPACT THIS ORDINANCE AS WELL AS OTHER KITCHENS. MM-HMM . BECAUSE IT TURNS OUT THAT PEOPLE, OF COURSE I HAVE A HOT PLATE, THEREFORE IT MUST BE A KITCHEN. SO WE WANT TO FIX, I'LL BE A NEW DEFINITION. I MENTION RIGHT NOW, SORRY, MUST FOLLOW UNDERLYING ZONING, DISTRICT REQUIREMENTS, SETBACKS, LOCK COVERAGE, APPEARANCE AND HEIGHT. AGAIN, IT'S GOTTA BLEND INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. NOW, HE RAN INTO, UM, UH, SOME OF THE QUESTIONS ABOUT CONCERNS. THE AAUS BEING, UH, JUST USED FOR, UM, I'LL, I'LL CALL IT PROFIT HEARING. SOMEONE, UH, JUST PULL SOMETHING THAT, OR OUT OF THE AIR JUST WANTS ANOTHER RENTAL IN THEIR BACKYARD. AND SO THEY BILLED AN U AND THEY RENT IT OUT. NOW THEY DON'T NEED IT FOR GRANDMA, THEY DON'T NEED IT FOR NEW, THEY'RE JUST DOING IT 'CAUSE THEY WANT TO BUILD EXTRA MONEY. AND THAT'S OKAY TO DO THAT SORT OF THING, WHETHER IT'S USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. IF, IF THE PERSON DOESN'T NEED THE MONEY OR THE PERSON DOES NEED THE MONEY AND THEY'RE USING THAT A U TO BE ABLE TO STAY IN THEIR HOME, OR THEY'RE USING THAT A DU FOR THE PURPOSE OF, OF, OF, OF KIDS, YOU KNOW, COMING HOME FROM COLLEGE OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. ALL ARE OKAY TO DO THAT DEPENDING ON WHAT IT IS. BUT THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT STATISTICS THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE ABUSED AND THE OWNER OCCUPIED WAS PART OF THAT. TO AVOID THAT. UH, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS TRYING TO GET STATISTICS IN SMALL TOWNS, UM, TO FIND OUT HOW THEY'RE BEING UTILIZED. AND THAT WAS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE. ONLY THE LARGER CITIES WERE, WERE PUTTING THOSE SORTS OF STATISTICS TOGETHER. AND THAT'S WHY I USED IT IN THIS. AND AS A POINT OF CLARITY THERE, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU DON'T HAVE SMALLER TOWNS USING THESE. IT JUST MEANS THAT THEY'RE NOT PUTTING NO, THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT GONNA PUT, AND IT'S NOT GONNA, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO EASILY FIND THAT UNLESS YOU KNEW WHAT TOWN TO GO LOOK SPECIFICALLY TO. GIVE THEM A CALL. I HAVE A QUESTION. SO THAT, THAT'S WHAT THIS WAS PROVIDED FOR. AND REALLY THE, THE BOTTOM LINE OF THIS WAS TO SAY THAT A SUBSTANTIAL, THE CONCERN WAS THAT WASN'T GONNA BE USED FOR GRANNY FLAX. AND THAT SORT OF USE A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THOSE ARE BEING PROVEN, THEY ARE BEING USED THAT WELL WAY, BUT SOME ARE ALSO BEING USED AS A RENTAL TO ABIDE DIFFERENT ADDITIONAL INCOME. BUT WHAT I THINK COUNCIL WAS MISSING IN SOME OF THAT DISCUSSION WAS THAT THAT'S ALSO AN AGING IN PLACE MECHANISM. YES. THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T MAYBE NEED A 2,500 SQUARE FOOT HOME TO MAINTAIN AND CLEAN, BUT MAYBE YOU JUST WANNA MOVE INTO SOMETHING SMALLER AND RENT IT OUT, BUT YOU'RE STILL ON THE PROPERTY. THAT SEEMED TO BE SOME CONFUSION TOO, OF WHEN THEY SAY A DU, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY LIVE IN, LIKE YOU WERE SAYING, 11 TO 80 U OR NOT. YOU JUST, YOU HAVE TO, THE OWNER HAS TO LIVE IN ONE OF, ON THE PROPERTY, TWO ON THE PROPERTY. AND SO SOMEHOW THAT WAS, UM, ONE OF THE THINGS, DID YOU, MS. NEIL, DID YOU GO TO THE A RP TO TRY THAT? A A RP SPECIFICALLY ON ADUS? UH, NOT, NOT IN THIS EFFORT HERE. ORIGINALLY I DID WHEN I WAS GOING TO, BUT NOT, NOT, NOT FOR THIS PARTICULAR CHECK SET OF CHARTS. IF WE NEED, UH, SOME PARKING CAME UP, UH, TALKING. THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS BROUGHT UP IN ONE OF THE WORKING GROUP MEETINGS. SO AGAIN, I HAD TO GO BACK TO STUDIES FROM CALIFORNIA AND SEATTLE IN ORDER TO FIND SOME SORT OF MEANINGFUL DATA, UH, THAT WENT ALONG WITH IT. AND THEY, THEY HAVE A MUCH LONGER TRACK RECORD OF USING A DU LIKE STRUCTURES. SO THE BOTTOM LINE, IT COMES OUT THAT IS THE BURDENS THAT WERE EXTREMELY LOW IS AS IT PROVED NOW, WHEN ADDED ADU, THE ADDITIONAL, AND MOST HOMES ALREADY HAD ENOUGH PARKING TO ACCOMMODATE AN A DU. AND THOSE THAT DIDN'T, THE BURDEN, BURDEN ON THE STREET PARKING WAS MINIMAL, IS WHAT THEIR STUDIES FOUND. BOTH FROM UC, DAVIS, AS WELL AS IN SEATTLE. SO THIS IS, THERE WAS SOME CONCERN, UM, ABOUT PUTTING THIS CHART IN, UH, THAT IF WE USE A LARGE CITY, THAT MIGHT CAUSE SOME SORT OF PROBLEM SINCE IT WASN'T A SMALL TOWN STUDY COMING FROM A SMALL TOWN. BUT I THINK THIS STILL HOLDS VALIDITY BECAUSE THEY HAD THE RESOURCES TO DO THIS SORT OF STUDY AND THEY HIT TRACK HISTORY. AND IF, IF IT IS, IF IT IS MINIMALLY IMPACTFUL TO A LARGE TOWN, SURELY IT'S GONNA BE MINIMALLY IMPACTFUL TO US. AND DON'T CALL ME SHIRLEY . ANYWAY, ENFORCEMENT. I RAN THIS BY DANIEL, UM, THIS ENFORCEMENT THAT WAS A QUESTION ABOUT, WELL, HOW DO WE KNOW THEY'RE ACTUALLY, UM, USING THE A DU AND NOT HAVING THESE TWO RENTALS MM-HMM . AND, AND IT REALLY COMES OUT TO, UM, IT'S THE SAME AS USED THROUGHOUT TOWN FOR ALL THE OTHER ENFORCEMENT THINGS. AND THESE ARE MECHANISMS REALLY THAT ENFORCEMENT WOULD HAVE TO USE. YOU'RE [00:10:01] NOT GONNA GO UP, UM, TOWN IS NOT ROUTINELY GONNA GO UP AND BANG ON DOORS ONCE A YEAR TO SEE IF THEY INDEED HAVE AN A DU OR IF THERE WAS GOOD RENTALS IN BOTH PARTS, BOTH EDU AND PRIMARY STRUCTURE. NOW, IF SOMEONE COMPLAINS, OF COURSE, THEN, THEN THERE'S A, A REASON TO GO DO THAT SORT OF, UM, INSPECTION OR IF IT'S DOWN IN AN ANCILLARY FACTION FASHION, SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENED, UH, THAT YOU HAD TO GO TO THE PROPERTY. BUT IF YOUR BUILDING A DU, IT HAS TO MEET ALL THE INSPECTION CRITERIA OF A NEW HOME AS WELL AS THE DECLARED STATE THAT IT IS INDEED AN A DU. AND THEY GO THROUGH THAT PERMANENT PROCESS. SO INITIALLY, IF THEY'RE BUILDING IT OR GETTING IT CHECKED OUT, WE KNOW IT'S AN A DU, COULD IT BE ABUSED LATER ON? OF COURSE. BUT EVERYTHING COULD BE ABUSED LATER ON MM-HMM . SO ANYWAY, THIS WAS LAYING, LAYING OUT WHAT THE COMPLIANCE WOULD LOOK LIKE. AND LIKE I SAID, I DID RUN THIS BY DANIEL TO MAKE SURE IT WAS OKAY. AND I THINK WHAT I GATHERED FROM THE LAST TOWN COUNCIL MEETING, THEY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT ENFORCEMENT. THEY SEEMED TO BE CONFUSED ABOUT BEING ABLE TO HAVE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR A BUYRIGHT USE. AND YOU CAN HAVE SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS, LIKE YOU CAN HAVE ADDITIONAL STANDARDS FOR A BUYRIGHT USE. LIKE IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AN SUP. SO IT GOES BACK TO HAVING A SHED IN YOUR BACKYARD. UM, IF YOU HAVE A SHED, UM, AND YOUR NEXT NEIGHBOR DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, BUT THE REGULATIONS, WHETHER OR YOUR NEXT NEIGHBOR BUILDS A SHED WITHOUT A PERMIT. ALL THOSE THINGS YOU MAY FIND OUT LATER ON. THAT PERSON DOES HAVE A SHED, BUT WHETHER HE DOES OR DOESN'T THAT SHED PUTS IN, IT HAS TO MEET A CERTAIN PERFORMANCE STANDARD. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN HE HAS TO HAVE AN SUP TO DO IT. MM-HMM . OKAY. NOW THE OPTIONS, THE RECOMMENDATIONS TO GO THROUGH, AND THESE ARE SOME OF THE OTHER WAYS IT COULD POSSIBLY BE HANDLED. UM, WE COULD REQUIRE SPECIAL USE PERMIT THAT MUST BE RENEWED ANNUALLY. UH, HAVE SOME PROBLEMS WITH THAT BECAUSE IT, IT, IT, WELL FIRST IT WOULD BE EASE OF ENFORCEMENT. EVERY YEAR YOU'D HAVE AN INSPECTION TO GO BACK AND YOU'D HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS FOR ANOTHER SPECIAL USE PERMIT. THAT REALLY WORKS QUITE A BIT AGAINST THE WHOLE PRINCIPLE OF THIS. AND, UH, IT, IT'D BE A FINANCIAL HARDSHIP FOR THE POPULATION THAT MOST IN NEED OF THIS, UH, OR FOR BEING USED FOR THE SORT HOUSING. AND, UH, SO I, I WAS GONNA RECOMMEND NOT FOLLOWING THIS PATH. REQUIRE FOR, FOR, UH, SPECIAL USE PERMIT FILES, THE TITLE, UM, THEY'RE, THESE ARE LOW IMPACT. THEY BLENDED THE EXISTING RESIDENTIAL PATTERNS. THEY DON'T HAVE A MEANINGFUL CHANGE TO THE CHARACTER IN NEIGHBORHOOD. MANY ALREADY EXIST INFORMALLY WITHOUT ISSUES FORMALIZING THEM DOESN'T CREATE NEW IMPACTS. THE ADDITION OF SPECIAL USE PERMIT PROVIDES A LITTLE ADDITIONAL PROTECTION FOR HOMEOWNER OR TOWN AGAINST ABUSE, BUT IT DOES ADD COST TO BOTH. MM-HMM . SO I WOULD SAY I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THAT PATH EITHER. NO. AND FOR BOTH OF THESE, WE DISCUSSED THOSE OPTIONS YEAH. AS POSSIBLE WAYS TO, AND, YOU KNOW, TO HANDLE IT AND JUST LOGISTICALLY AND, YOU KNOW, FROM THE COST ASPECT, ESPECIALLY, LIKE, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. YEAH. AND ALL THIS IS REALLY A RE REITERATION OF WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE. ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. OKAY. ONLY, UM, ONLY ALLOW ADUS AS AN INTERNAL STRUCTURE IN ONE OR ALL RESIDENTIAL ZONES. THERE'S A BUNCH OF PROBLEMS WITH THAT. FIRST, IT WOULD GREATLY LIMIT THE NUMBER OF ADUS POSSIBLE. MOST HOUSES ARE NOT SUITABLE TO BUILD AN A DU IN, IF YOU HAVE A BASEMENT AND YOU POTENTIALLY CAN KNOCK OUT A KNOCK OUT AND GET A, A FIRE, YOU KNOW, A FIRE ESCAPE IN ONE WINDOW AND A DOOR AND A SEPARATE POTENTIAL IN A BASEMENT, FINE. BUT A LOT OF HOUSES DON'T. LIKE MY HOUSE COULDN'T HAVE AN A DU INSIDE IT JUST FOR A SINGLE LEVEL HOME. UM, LET'S SEE WHAT I WANNA SAY. UH, IT BE SOME PEOPLE WERE, THERE WAS ONE COMMENT ABOUT HAVING IN ONLY IN, UM, R ONE ZONING ALLOW INTERNAL, BUT NOT EXTERNAL. THE SAME ARGUMENT I JUST SAID, UH, HOLDS TRUE. SO I, IN BASEMENTS, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT FROM AN AGING PLACE PERSPECTIVE, BASEMENTS ARE DANGEROUS. ONE OF THE REASONS WHY MY FOLKS MOVED IS BECAUSE MY GRANDFATHER WAS LIVING IN THE BASEMENT. THEY HAD REFURBISHED FOR HIM, AND HE WAS HAVING REALLY HARD TIME GETTING UP AND DOWN THE STAIRS. AND SO THEY MOVED. RIGHT. IF WE HAD IT, IT WAS ONLY INTERNAL. EVERY PEOPLE WOULD RUN AT ISSUES LIKE THAT LEFT AND RIGHT. YEAH. AND, AND WE'D HAVE VERY FEW ADAS BUILT IF IT ABOVE THAT. AND EVEN IF, IF THEY DO A BASEMENT, IT HAS TO MEET THE NEW STANDARDS TO GO ALONG WITH IT. AND THAT'S WOULD BE THE PROTECTIONS OF THE, BUT ANYWAY, I, I DON'T RECOMMEND THIS PATH EITHER. I OKAY. PREVENT ADUS AND R ONE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS ONLY. IF YOU GO BACK TO THAT EARLIER PAGE THAT SHOWED ALL THE R ONE LOTS THAT COULD BE BUILT ON THE R TWO R ONE, IT'S, UM, IT'S ALMOST POINTLESS TO EVEN DO THIS. IF YOU EXCLUDE R ONE, IT WOULD BE VERY LIMITED NUMBER OF LOTS THAT WOULD BE AVAILABLE AND [00:15:01] VERY UNEQUAL. SO AGAIN, I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THAT OPTION. SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE DRAFT IS ADOPT THE ORDINANCE AS IS AND MAKE NO CHANGES. DO YOU HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THE ORDINANCE AS IT CURRENTLY IS WRITTEN? UH, I DON'T, FROM THE LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, NO. MY TAKEAWAY FROM THE COUNCIL MEETING WAS ENFORCEMENT. THAT WAS MY TAKEAWAY. YEAH. I, I HAVE A CHART TO DO THAT. BUT IT IS, IT IS, UM, IT, IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE GONNA ADDRESS THAT ENFORCEMENT, WE NEED TO CHANGE THE TOWN'S ENFORCEMENT FOR EVERYTHING IF WE'RE GONNA DO IT DIFFERENTLY. WELL, YOU COULD, UH, I DON'T KNOW WHY WE, WE, WE COULD DO A, UH, YOU COULD DO I GUESS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT A ONE TIME, AND IT'S LIKE WE DO THE OTHER INSPECTIONS, DO AN ANNUAL INSPECTION, BUT NOT REQUIRE AN APPLICATION FEE. BUT WHY CAN'T WE JUST DO THE ANNUAL INSPECTION WITHOUT THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT LIKE WE DO CHICKENS? WELL, THEY WOULD, WOULD THAT ONE, THEY PAY TO HAVE AN A DU, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE THOSE SPECIAL USE PERMITS FOR AN A DUA ONE TIME FEE, THAT REQUIRES AN ANNUAL INSPECTION YEARLY TO RENEW THE, UH, THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT WITHOUT ANOTHER FEE ATTACHED. SO THAT'D BE A BURDEN ON THE TOWN AND COST WITH, WELL, THAT WOULD BE AN ENFORCEMENT ACTION WHERE WE WOULD, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, IT WOULD BE RENEWED ANNUALLY WITHOUT MAKING ANOTHER PAYMENT. MM-HMM . AND MAKE ONE TIME PAYMENT. THEN AT THAT, IF SOME REASON THAT THE INSPECTION REVEALED THAT THEY WEREN'T USING THE A DU AS SUBMITTED OR APPROVED, THEN IT WOULD NOT BE RENEWED. WE OH, ON THE SAME SIDE ISN'T SOME OF THE, UH, BUT THEN, THEN YOU POTENTIALLY, YOU COULD HAVE SOMEONE BUILD AN A DU IN THEIR BACKYARD AND THEN WE WOULDN'T RENEW THAT PERMIT. YEAH. I, THE COUNCIL BUSINESS, WHO THEY RENT TO, WHO USES IT. I MEAN, IT'S, THEY'RE NOT AWARE WHEN SOMEBODY CHOOSES TO RENT OUT THEIR HOME LONG TERM ANYWAY. RIGHT. WHY DO THEY CARE WHO IS LIVING IN THEIR BASEMENT, WHO YOU LET INTO YOUR HOME? I'M NOT, I'M NOT A BIG, BIG FAN OF THAT. EVEN ANOTHER LEVEL OF ENFORCEMENT ON, ON TOP OF THAT, OVER AND ABOVE WHAT WE DO FOR EVERYBODY. YEAH. I'M JUST TRYING TO OH, I UNDERSTAND. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. ANOTHER AVENUE OR ANOTHER PATH. WELL, ALSO, WHEN IT COMES TO THE ENFORCEMENT SIDE OF THINGS, IF IN ORDER TO GET, UH, YOU KNOW, TO FINISH OUT THE PROJECT AND FINISH THE A TO U, THEY WOULD HAVE TO PRESENT A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY AS WELL. YEAH. AT THE VERY BEGINNING. AT THE, WHEN IT'S FIRST BEING BUILT. YEAH. AND THEY HAVE TO SHOW THAT THEY, THAT THEY LIVE THERE. YEAH. WHICH MEANS THEN THAT DEFACTO THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THE QUALITY AND, YOU KNOW, PROPER PRODUCTION OF THIS PRODUCT. I MEAN, IT'S, IT LITERALLY IN THEIR BACKYARD. I COULDN'T IMAGINE SOMEONE, YOU KNOW, JUST PUTTING UP A SHACK IN THE BACK BECAUSE WHY NOT? YOU KNOW, WHO WOULD WANT TO DO THAT? WELL, YOU WOULDN'T RECOUP YOUR MONEY ON THAT FOR A COUPLE YEARS ANYWAY. SO IT, IT'S NOT A WISE INVESTMENT. NO, NOT STRICTLY TO JUST BUILD AN A DU JUST TO RENT OUT TO ANYBODY OR FOR INCOME. IT MAKES MORE SENSE IF YOU'RE GONNA MOVE INTO IT YOURSELF AND THEN RENT OUT TO YOUR HOUSE. BUT, OR BUILDING IT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A NEED FOR, AT THE TIME, ELDERLY PARENTS, COLLEGE KIDS, WHAT HAVE YOU. RIGHT. AND THEN AFTER THEY'RE OUT, THEN NOW YOU'RE RENTING IT. BECAUSE NOW OTHERWISE YOU JUST HAVE AN EMPTY PROPERTY. BUT THE REQUIREMENT THAT THE OWNER LIVES ON THE PROPERTY IN EITHER ONE OF THE UNITS, I THINK COVERS ANY POTENTIAL ISSUE. I, I BELIEVE SO. AND, AND WHERE AN ISSUE WOULD SHOW UP WOULD BE DOWN THE ROAD, NOT ONCE IT'S INITIALLY PERMITTED. 'CAUSE THEN IT WOULD BE FINE. 'CAUSE YOU HAVE THE INSPECTION PROCESS. SO FIVE YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, IF SOMEONE DECIDES TO DO BOTH, THERE'S POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE, BUT WHY PUNISH EVERYONE FOR THAT POTENTIAL? IT JUST MAKES SENSE. EXCUSE ME. JOHN, WHAT'S THE CURRENT SUP FEE? UM, SHORT TERM RENTALS IS 1200. I THINK THEY'RE BOTH 1200. BUT I THINK FOR A REGULAR SUP SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THEY'RE THE SAME. THEY'RE NOT THE SAME. ALL THE BUSES, CHICKENS, ALL THE BUS, THERE'S NO SUP FOR CHICKENS. THEY, THEY DO MANAGEMENT PLAN AND THEY DO, THEY DO AN URBAN AG PERMIT THAT HAS A FEE ATTACHED. YEAH. MM-HMM . ONE TIME. BUT, UH, BUT WITH THE STIPULATION ON THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS, IT CAN BE REVOKED. OKAY. OKAY. WHEN WE DO THE INSPECTION. AND WHAT WOULD [00:20:01] HAPPEN THEN? LET'S SAY WE DID GO DOWN TO THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT ROUTE, AND THEN AT SOME POINT WE DECIDE THAT THEY'RE OUT OF, YOU KNOW, IT NEEDS TO BE REVOKED, THEN WHAT WE ARE TELLING HIM TO TAKE, TO TEAR IT DOWN OR TEAR UP THE BASEMENT, WHATEVER. WHAT IS ACTUALLY DONE THERE? UM, I'M JUST LOOKING BACK TO THE NOTES AND EVERYTHING. SO A REGULAR SA THOUSAND, NOT NECESSARILY TEAR DOWN, BUT YOU CAN'T BE USED FOR THAT USE. THERE'S, I I, HERE'S SOME OF THE NOTES. WHEN THERE WAS FINANCING CHALLENGES OR LENDERS, IF IT'S A SUP AND GOOD FOR REVOKE, THAT LENDERS WOULD BE HESITANT TO IT BECAUSE PART OF THE USE OF THEIR INVESTMENT COULD BE REVOKED. BUT THAT WAS ONE THING. UM, WHAT ELSE? I SAW SIGNIFICANCE, UH, ISSUE REDUCING HOUSING, COULD HAVE CRITICIZED BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. I'D HAVE TO, AGAIN, I WASN'T FULLY PREPARED FOR THAT QUESTION. APPROVAL. AGAIN, WHAT HAPPENS IF IT REJECTS IT IN THE MIDDLE, UH, ANYWAY, THAT, I GUESS IF THEY RE IT WOULD REVOKED. IF IT HAD AN SUP AND IT WAS FOUND IN NON NON-COMPLIANCE FOR RENEWAL, THEN IT WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT USE. WELL, IF IT WAS TIME LIMITED MM-HMM . IF THAT WAS A CONDITION REQUIRING RENEWAL, THEN IT WOULDN'T BE RENEWED. SO YOU'D HAVE A EMPTY A DU IN YOUR BACKYARD, POTENTIALLY PERSON THAT WOULD, OKAY, SO YOU HAVE AN EMPTY AND THEN THE PERSON BUYS YOUR HOUSE AFTER YOU, IT WOULDN'T BE A, YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO USE IT AS A DWELLING UNIT. YEAH. MAYBE A SHED . THAT WOULD BE THE PENALTY. COULD, YOU COULD GET ANOTHER SUP IT TO QUESTION. YOU CAN SEE THE RABBIT HOLE WE'RE GOING DOWN THAT THAT'S THE OPTION. YOU WOULD, THEY WOULD, THEY WOULD, THAT WOULD ELIMINATE THE USE. SO IT WOULDN'T BE ON THEIR BEST INTEREST NOT TO HAVE A VIOLATION OF THE A DU OR THAT WOULD NOT, THAT WOULD BE NOT RENEWED BY THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT. THE USE WOULD STOP. ARE THERE ANY VIOLATIONS IN PARTICULAR THAT COUNSEL SEEMS TO BE WORRIED ABOUT? OR IS IT JUST OVERALL? I, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S JUST THAT, HOW DO YOU VERIFY THAT'S, THAT WAS THE ONLY VERIFY, VERIFY IT'S BEING USED CORRECTLY THAT WAS BEING USED CORRECTLY TO BE SOMEONE'S LOOKING THERE EN ENFORCE BASICALLY ENFORCEMENT. HOW DO YOU VERIFY AND ENFORCEMENT THAT IT ISN'T BOTH, THEY AREN'T BOTH BEING USED AS RENTALS. THAT'S THE BIG CONCERN. UM, I MEAN, IF IN ORDER TO GET A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY OR THE A DU, THEY HAVE PREVIOUSLY PRESENTED THE, THEIR OWN PROOF THAT THEY LIVE THERE. IT, I, I DON'T KNOW. ANYWAY, WHEN, WHEN THIS IDEA WAS PROPOSED THAT S STS HAD TO BE UNOCCUPIED, THEY DIDN'T LIKE THAT OT. RIGHT. BECAUSE THAT CAME UP BECAUSE WE CANCELED AS A PROPOSED AMENDMENT, OR IN THE PROCESS OF DECIDING THE S STS. AND THEY DID NOT WANT TO GO UNDER OCCUPY REQUIREMENTS FOR STS. SO THAT WOULD'VE BEEN MORE SUBJECT TO ABUSE AND DIMINISHMENT OF GENERAL WELFARE. THE WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO, THERE'S, THERE'S NO MATTER, NO MATTER WHAT, WHEN IT COMES TO A HOUSE, THERE'S RISK OR ABUSE RISK. IF SOMEONE'S GONNA DO ELECTRICAL WIRING IN THEIR BASEMENT, THAT'S WITHOUT A CODE. YES. HAPPENS HOW MANY, HOW MANY HOUSES ARE IN TOWN THAT HAVE THAT NOW. BUT, BUT IF THAT PERSON LATER ON GOES TO, UM, HAVE TO PUT IN A, A A 200 AMP BREAKER PANEL, IF SOMETHING AND THAT VIOLATION IS FOUND, THEN THEY'RE CAUGHT. BUT, UM, BUT LIKE I SAY, I, I, I DON'T THINK, I THINK THIS IS THIS, I GUESS WE COULD, UM, IF I'M THINKING OUT LOUD, I GUESS WE COULD HAVE AN APPLICATION FOR NAVY U WELL THAT'S, THAT WAS PART OF THE PACKAGE WAS SENT, WAS THAT APPLICATION. THEY COULD COME IN WITH AN APPLICATION FOR THE A DU WHERE THEY WOULD SIGN IF THEY'RE GONNA BUILD AN EXTERNAL MM-HMM . OR AN INTERNAL ONE THAT WOULD BE ON THE PERMIT, THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO CHECK ON THE BOX OWNER OCCUPIED ONE OR THE OTHER WITH THAT PERMIT. WE WOULD DO A DIFFERENT [00:25:01] ZONING PERMIT. IF THERE WAS A, AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS, ONE OF THE, WHEN THIS WHOLE PACKAGE WAS SENT, THERE WAS A DRAFT ONE OF THOSE FOR YOU GUYS TO DO. BUT THAT WAS FOR YOU GUYS TO MAKE THAT WAS JUST A, A DRAFT OR WHATEVER YOU WANTED. MM-HMM . BUT IT HAD ALONG THOSE LINES. THAT WOULD BE LIKE SOMEONE JUST COMING IN TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT TO BUILD A NEW BUILDING, FOR EXAMPLE, OR ZONING PERMIT TO CONSTRUCT THE BUILDING. TO GET THE BUILDING PERMIT. IT WOULD BE AN APPLICATION FOR A ZONING PERMIT FOR THAT SPECIFIC A DU THAT WAS PART OF THE PROPOSAL. AND THAT APPLICATION WOULD HAVE ON THERE, OWNER OCCUPIED ONE OR THE OTHER. THEY WOULD'VE TO SIGN THAT, UM MM-HMM . WITH THAT AND KNOWLEDGE IN THAT. YES, IT IS OWNER OCCUPIED IN ONE OR THE OTHER. MM-HMM . I GUESS THAT WOULD BE THE ENFORCEMENT. WE COULD UH, IT COULD BE MAKING THAT FORM. YES. WOULD THAT BE ADMINISTRATIVE? WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO MAKE A MODIFICATION TO THIS? WE WOULD, UM, ORIGINALLY PRESENTED, WE HAVE AN ADMINISTRATIVE FORM. IT WAS ONE JUST HANDED YOU GUYS TO, WE JUST HAVE TO, UH, AMEND THE, UH, I CAN, I CAN DIG IT UP. THE FEE SCHEDULE TO ADD THAT ON THE FEE SCHEDULE. I DON'T THINK WE'D WANNA MAKE A $1,200. NO, I'M JUST SAYING INSTEAD OF JUST A REGULAR ZONING PERMIT TO OBTAIN A BUILDING PERMIT TO CONSTRUCT A STRUCTURE OF A GARAGE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT'S ALL THEY REQUIRE IS A ZONING PERMIT WITH THAT FEE TO CONSTRUCT A AN ACCESSORY UNIT. A GARAGE. THIS ONE WOULD BE SPECIFICALLY FOR AN A DU. AND ON THAT APPLICATION, IT WOULD HAVE TO STAY OWNER OCCUPIED ON THAT APPLICATION. RIGHT. BUT THAT'D BE AN EXTERNAL AS WELL AS AN INTERNAL. YES. THEY WOULD HAVE TO STIPULATE THE, YOU KNOW, THEY OBVIOUSLY, IF IT WAS A HOUSE WITH AN INTERNAL, THEY'D HAVE TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE. IF, YOU KNOW, I WAS OCCUPIED ON THAT. WE COULD, WE COULD TRY IT THAT WAY. I COULD DIG UP THAT FORM I HAD AND GET THAT TO YOU. I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS RIGHT THIS SECOND. THAT WAS THAT PROPOSAL BACK IN WHEN WE WERE GOING THROUGH THE WORKING GROUP. AND THEN CAN MODIFY AND THEN YOU CAN, OR IF YOU JUST WANNA MAKE ONE TO GO ALONG WITH THAT, THIS WOULD BE, IT WOULDN'T BE PER SE PART OF THE FACT IT WOULD BE A SUPPLEMENT TOO. YEAH. UM, THAT, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS WHAT DO YOU, WHAT WOULD YOU RATHER DO? WOULD YOU RATHER JUST DO THAT YOURSELF? NO, I'M SOMETHING OUT. NO, I'M JUST THROWING THAT I IDEA OUT THERE. THAT'S AN IDEA. NO, YOU, NO MATTER WHAT OUT THERE MATTER. NO MATTER WHAT YOU NEED. THAT IS. 'CAUSE THAT'S ALL PART, PART OF THIS AND THAT WAS PART OF THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL. YOU NEED AN INDEPENDENT FORM WHERE SOMEONE'S GONNA COME IN AND SAY, I'M BUILDING AN A DU AND YOU'RE GONNA HAND THIS FORM, YOU KNOW, CERTIFYING THESE THINGS. MM-HMM . AND THAT WAS PART OF IT. I JUST, INSTEAD OF DOING IT SPECIAL USE PERMIT, YOU COULD DO IT WITH THE APPLICATION. I'M NOT SURE WE'RE GETTING, WE'RE GETTING MORE INTO ENFORCING THIS AND CARRYING THIS OUT. I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF OTHER AREAS FOR ENFORCEMENT COUNSEL. YEAH. YOUR SUGGESTION IS JOHN, WHAT'S YOUR SUGGESTION? THEY WOULD HAVE TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION FOR THE A DU. MM-HMM . WELL, THAT'S GONNA COME UP WHEN THEY TRY TO GET A BUILDING PERMIT. WELL, THEY JUST FOR NOW, IF THEY JUST DO A GARAGE, AN EXTERNAL GARAGE, DETACHED GARAGE, THEY JUST GET A ZONING PERMIT TO OBTAIN A BUILDING PERMIT TO BUILD THE GARAGE. AND THAT'S, THAT'S IT ON THE FORM FOR AN A DU. IF THEY'RE SPECIFICALLY GOING TO CONSTRUCT AN A DU, THEY WOULD GET A ZONING PERMIT. BUT ON THAT FORM IT WOULD'VE TO BE A BOX THAT HAS TO BE OWNER OCCUPIED WHERE THEY'RE SIGNING THAT, THAT ONE OR THE OTHER IS WHEN BLACKSBURG HAD THAT. BUT THEY HAD THEM SUBMIT LIKE A NOTARIZED AFFIDAVIT THAT THEY WOULD BE, THAT THE PARCEL OF PROPERTY WOULD REMAIN OWNER OCCUPIED. AND THAT'S A CONCERN OF TOWN COUNCIL. I'M JUST, YEAH. YEAH. REMEMBER THAT WAS ONE OF THE PROVISIONS OF THAT BLACKSBURG. OH, ONE OF ONE OF THE THINGS. YEAH. AND OTHER ONES WERE JUST, THE APPROACH WE WERE TRYING TO TAKE WAS JUST THAT FORM THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN THE FIRST ONES. SO THAT WAS TWO DIFFERENT METHODS. THEY WERE AND OUR FORMS WHEN THEY SIGN THEM, I MEAN WE HAVE THAT FINE PRINT WHERE IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU SUBMIT THIS TOWN, STAFF HAS A RIGHT TO COME AND THEY COME TO YOUR PROPERTY UNREASONABLE BUSINESS HOURS. MAY I HEAR THE BLACKSBURG APPROACH AGAIN? PARDON? WHAT WAS BLACKSBURG ORDINANCE HAD? UM, ONE OF THEIR LIKE PROVISIONS IN THERE WAS THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER WOULD SUBMIT THIS NOTARIZED STATEMENT SAYING THAT THEY WILL, THAT IT IS AN OWNER OCCUPIED PROPERTY, THAT THEY WOULD REMAIN LONGER, BUT THEY LIVE ON THE PROPERTY TO GET THE ZONING CLEARANCE. GET THE ZONING CLEARANCE FOR 7 88. YES. LET SPEAK OF BLACKSBURG. I MEAN, I WANT RENT OUT, OUT TO THE STUDENT BECAUSE YOU [00:30:01] WANNA MAKE SURE IT'S NOT JUST A BUNCH OF STUDENTS FROM THE FRONT BECAUSE, SO THAT WAS ANOTHER WAY APPARENT. BUT AGAIN, THE APPROACH HERE ORIGINALLY WAS HAVING THAT TOWN FORM. THEY WOULD SUBMIT AGAIN, WE WE'RE DATING BACK TO A FEW MONTHS AGO, WE DISCUSSING IT AUGUST, LOOKED ALL THE FEES STRUCTURE AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF WHERE THAT HAD TO GO ALONG WITH. BUT I, THAT WAS VIEWED EXTERNAL TO THIS. 'CAUSE IT WAS A FORM HERE. I MEAN THE QUESTION THEN IS IF WE WERE TO GO ALONG, GO DOWN THE ROUTE OF IT NOT BEING JUST A STANDARD BUILDING PERMIT, BUT A SPECIFIC A DU PERMIT THAT HAS THAT CHECK BOX, WOULD THERE NEED TO BE ANY MODIFICATIONS MADE TO WHAT WE ARE POSING TO TOWN COUNCIL? NO. WOULD IT BE PURELY ADMINISTRATIVE, ADMINISTRATIVE FORM? NO, IT'S A, THAT'S JUST HOW WE MAKE THAT FORM. OKAY. WOULD WE NEED TO MAKE A PROPOSED ADJUSTMENT TO THE FEE SCHEDULE THEN? WOULD THAT HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS? WE WOULD'VE TO HAVE A, WE'RE HAVING A SEPARATE A DU PERMIT. THAT WOULDN'T BE ADDED FEE. OKAY. AND THAT, WOULD THAT BE, COULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT WE SENT TO COUNSEL ON ABLY UNASKED AND JUST SAY, HEY, HERE'S WHAT WE WANT DO WITH THE FEE SCHEDULE FOR THIS, BUT NO LONGER JUST A REGULAR PHONE, NINE OR SO. YOU, I I GUESS THAT'S, I MEAN, IF YOU WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS, I MEAN, I WOULD, YOU'D HAVE TO BUILD, I, I WOULD HAVE TO THINK IF, IF COUNSEL WANTS ANOTHER MECHANISM FOR ENFORCEMENT, THEN THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE PROPOSALS. IF THEY WOULD'VE ADVANCED THIS AS IT IS WRITTEN, FOR EXAMPLE, AND PASS THAT, THEN WE COULD COME BACK WITH THE SUPPLEMENTAL AMENDMENT TO THE FEES BY THEIR DIRECTION ON ENFORCEMENT. THAT'S GONNA DELAY IT EVEN LONGER. IT WOULD JUST BE ANOTHER PROCESS OF, OF YEAH. DOING THE FEES. BECAUSE WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO ISSUE ANY PERMITS WITHOUT HAVING THAT PERMIT CREATED AND THE FEES ADOPTED. MM-HMM . BUT I ALSO THINK THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THIS, THEN MAYBE HAVE, WELL, UNTIL IT'S AMENDED, IT'S GONNA BE THE FEE AS IS FOR ZONING. RIGHT. IT WOULD JUST BE A FEE FOR AN, UH, UNTIL IT'S AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT PER SE. IT WOULDN'T STOP YOU FROM GOING FORWARD WITH BUILDING WHAT, BUT UNTIL WHEN THE FEE, WHEN THE FEE WAS FINISHED, THEN IT WOULD BE ENFORCED. SAY, I MEAN I, WOULD IT NOT BE A SEMI REASONABLE TIMEFRAME FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? LIKE LET'S SAY THAT TOWN COUNCIL ADOPTS WHAT WE'VE ALREADY PROPOSED AT THEIR MEETING IN JANUARY. IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN WOULD IT BE REASONABLE FOR US TO HAVE A PROPOSED TO BE STRUCTURE IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN JANUARY SO WE COULD SEND THAT OFF TO THEM AND THEN, AND THAT'S A, THAT'S A ONE MONTH DIFFERENCE. I MEAN, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA GET 30, 80 S IN A MONTH. THEY JUST GET LAGGING A MONTH BEHIND. I MEAN YEAH, FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S NOT AT ALL. NO. AND WHY THINK MAYBE WE BUILD IN THE PROVISION THAT WE DO INSPECTION. THEY WANT SOMETHING THEY WANT SEE SOME KIND OF ENFORCEMENT HANDLE. 50 SOME CHICKEN INSPECTIONS IN. THAT'S GOOD. CHICKEN INSPECTION. A DU INSPECTIONS COULD BE HARDER 'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO COORDINATE WITH POTENTIALLY TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS FAMILIES. 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T JUST, WE COORDINATE WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER TO TRY TO TRY TO GET, AND THEN THAT'S THEIR JOB TO COORDINATE WITH THEIR TENANT. OKAY. OKAY. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHY IT WOULD NEED TO BE A YEARLY INSPECTION. AND I THINK THAT IT, IT'S, YEAH, I THINK IT'S GONNA BE BURDENSOME TO, TO EVERYBODY INVOLVED. AND IF WE JUST HAVE 'EM SIGNING OFF SAYING, HEY, THIS IS OWNER OCCUPIED. I MEAN, PERSONALLY I THINK THAT'S SUFFICIENT. IT'S TOO BIG. BROTHERS, YOU'RE SAYING I THINK THE SEP IS TOO BIG BROTHERS THAT COUNCIL IS KIND OF YEAH, I, NO, I'M, I WOULD SAY WE'RE NOT, NOT A FAVOR OF ANY OF THE SUP TO GO ALONG WITH IT. NO. OR NOT. I DON'T THINK THE ANNUAL INSPECTION IS NECESSARY EITHER. NOW THAT, AGAIN, IF THAT'S WHAT THEY DECIDE TO DO, THAT'S WHAT THEY DECIDE TO DO ANYWAY. BUT WE NEED THE FORM. WE CAN GET THE FORM READY AND THE, OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO AS FAR AS THESE GO, THESE CHART GO, I CAN TAKE A DRAFT OFF OF THIS AND SEND IT DRAFT. OKAY. OKAY. SO YOU GONNA SEND IT? I, I'LL, I'LL TAKE THE DRAFT OFF AND I'LL SEND IT TO EVERYBODY JUST SO WE HAVE THE FINAL COPY. I'LL SEND IT BACK TO LAUREN. OKAY. ARE WE, ARE WE REPLYING DIRECTLY TO AMBER OR ARE WE HEADING UH, NO, I DON'T THINK SO. I THINK THAT THAT REPLY TO ONE BASED ON IF YOU'RE GONNA REPLY TO ONE, YOU NEED JUST REPLY TO [00:35:01] ALL. REPLY TO ALL. DO WE? IT'S NOT GOOD TO JUST MESSAGE ONE OR TWO COUNSELS. YEAH. YOU GOTTA DO ALL THE YEAH. DO WE DON'T WANT TO SEND WELL, YOU NEED FORMAL ACTION. JUST, WELL, I, I'M HESITANT TO DO I, I'D RATHER FOLLOW OUR PROCESS TO GET THIS TO HIM RATHER THAN DO IT IN THE EMAIL PERSONALLY. SURE. I JUST WASN'T SURE WHAT THE PROCESS WAS. YEAH, NO, I, I THINK MAYBE, UM, UH, COULD FOLLOW UP WITH AMBER POSSIBLY. UM, WELL THIS MEETING IS KIND OF A FOLLOW UP WITH AMBER. YEAH. OR, OR TO ANY PARTICULAR, UM, SO THOSE, WE TAKE THIS, YOU TAKE DRAFT OFF OF IT. YOU GIVE IT TO LAUREN, I'LL GIVE IT TO THIS GROUP AND LAUREN, AND THEN WE'LL GO THE PROCESS, THE NORMAL FORMAL PROCESS AND RESPONSE. WELL, WE'LL HAVE JUST TO AGREE ON THE DOCUMENT TO BEFORE OR RESPONSE. THIS WILL GO TO OUR NEXT REGULAR MEETING, RIGHT? YES. AS OLD BUSINESS AS. AND YOU'LL JUST MAKE A MOTION THAT MAKE A MOTION TO DO DOCUMENT THEN IT'LL BE RESPONSE. YES. BUT THAT DOESN'T STOP WITH THE RATIONALE. WITH THE RATIONALE. WELL THIS IS THE RATIONALE. WELL, OKAY. UH, THE, UM, THE RATIONALE THAT THEY ASKED FOR CLA THEY WANTED US TO KNOW WHAT WE WERE DOING WITH THIS AND THEY CAN ALSO WATCH THE YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. OKAY. OKAY. DO WE NEED TO TAKE ANY CONCLUSION ACTION ON THIS? UH, IF, IF YOU'D LIKE, I CAN, I'LL DRAFT UP SOMETHING AND SEND TO YOU GUYS AS FAR AS THE ENFORCEMENT. NOT THAT YOU NEED ANY HELP OR YOU JUST WANT STAY OUT OF IT AND YOU DO IT YOURSELF. WELL, WE HAD IT IN, WE HAD ONE IN AUGUST, CORRECT. ONE PART OF THE FORM. BUT WE DISCUSSED, WE, WE HAD ONE SOMEWHERE BACK IN ONE OF THE MEETINGS. I HAD TO DIG, DIG IT UP. . BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT WOULDN'T BE CHANGED NOW 'CAUSE OF WHAT WILL CHANGED IN THE PERIOD THAT WAS JUST A PROPOSED TO BE EXEMPT. NOT FOR US TO, YES. I CAN DIG IT UP. YEP. OKAY. SO WE'LL, WE'LL BRING IT TO THE WORK SESSION IN JANUARY JUST FOR THE FINAL DOCUMENT. OKAY. SO EVERYTHING'S COVERED AND THEN IT'LL BE ON THE AGENDA FOR ALL BUSINESS IN JANUARY. REGULAR MEETING. ALRIGHT. GOOD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK. ALRIGHT. NOW THE FUN PART. THE FUN AND GAME. . LAUREN'S ALREADY EXCITED. I CAN SEE HER. ROGER MILLER HERE WORKS WELL FOR SAILOR RING. RIGHT? MAKES YOU WANNA HOLLER HOW I KNOW THAT BE GUYS ARE NOT OLD . WELL WHEN THIS, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE TEA PO THAT'S WHAT REMINDED ME THAT, WELL, I'LL BE QUIET. OKAY. ALRIGHT. OKAY. MIXED USE CAMPUS. MCD ONE I ONE DISTRICT LIMITED INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT AND I TWO INDUSTRIAL EMPLOYMENT DISTRICT AND PROPOSED TEXT. AND THEN THERE'S THERE UN TWO. OKAY. WE HAD WORKED ON THIS BEFORE. LET US NO, NO. WE HAVE NOT WORKED ON THIS BEFORE. NOT MCD. NO, THIS, THIS HAS, WE DID THE OTHER PARTS OF BEEN INTELLIGENT. NO, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS COME, COME TO THE GROUP AND IT HAS SOME COMMENTS, MY COMMENTS IN THERE AS WELL AS THE COMMENTS FROM THE, UM, CONSULTANT PART IN HERE. AND I DON'T KNOW, UM, ANY COMMENTS FOR YOU FOLKS? IF YOU HAD ANYTHING YOU WANT TO START WITH, UH, FOR YOU WANNA JUST TAKE WHAT I HAVE AND WORK FROM THERE? TAKE WHAT YOU HAVE, WORK FROM THERE. I THINK, UM, I'D LIKE YOUR REWRITE OF THIS STATEMENT OF INTENT. UM, I THINK IT MAKES SENSE. UM, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, JUST MAKING THINGS MATCH. IF IT LASTS 40% RESIDENTIAL, THEN YOU KNOW, THIS THIS STATEMENT OF ATTENTION, YOU KNOW, HAVE AN INCLUSION TO THAT. IT WAS JUST A STRAIGHT, IT WAS JUST REAL. YEAH, JUST STRAIGHT. OKAY. THEN MOVE ON DOWN. HAD ASSISTING LIVING FACILITY OR NURSING HOME. THAT WAS SOMETHING THE EARLY DISCUSSION WE HAD. DO WE NEED THE TERM FACILITY OR CAN WE JUST SAY ASSISTED LIVING? UH, WHAT, WHAT WAS OUR DEFINITION THAT WE CALL ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY? I IS A FACILITY WE NEED FOR FACILITY. UM, WITH THIS ONE, CAN I GO AHEAD AND HIT ACCEPT OR SHOULD WE I I'M FINE IF, IF WE'RE ALL IN AGREEMENT. DO ACCEPT CHANGE. YEAH. WELL, I, WELL I DON'T, I DON'T LIKE THE WORD OR IN THERE OR I'M SORRY, WHAT? UM, ON LINE FOUR, ASSISTED LIVING. LIVING OH, ON ASSISTED LIVING. OH. OH, SORRY. I WAS BACK UP ON THE, UH, JUST THAT CHANGE THERE. AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK TO, WELL, WELL WE COULD DO TWO SEPARATE LINES FOR ASSISTED LIVING IN NURSING HOME. WOULD YOU PREFER THAT? YEAH. SO LET ME REJECT THIS ONE AND THEN JUST MAKE IT TO LINES. YEAH, I DON'T LIKE THE WORD. OR LIKE YOU'RE XANAX, ONE OR THE OTHER. JUST OKAY. WOULD YOU PREFER SLASH PUT IT ON TWO ANOTHER LINE? LINE ANOTHER LINE. THAT'S [00:40:01] FINE. AS LONG AS THEY'RE BOTH DEFINED. OH, OKAY. HERE'S MAPS. WHAT, WHERE LOOKING AT TONIGHT, YOU CAN SEE IT IN PRINT. NICE. THANK YOU. THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT NOW? YEAH, WE ON THE MC NOW? YEAH. ALL RIGHT, SO CIRCLE BACK TO THAT. OKAY, GREAT. OKAY, SO WE JUST, LET'S SEE. JUST HIT FACILITY . YEAH. SO JUST PUT IN THOSE TWO. UM, EVERYTHING ELSE IN COMMERCIAL IS STANDARD. UM, AND YEAH. UM, ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS OR ANYTHING MISSED YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO? WELL YOU'RE SAYING E EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE OF YOUR COMMENT HERE. YOU'RE SAYING HOTELS AND MOTELS REQUIRING SUP EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE CENTRAL TO THE CAMPUS, LIKE DEVELOPMENT MOVED TO BUY. RIGHT. SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT THEY SHOULD NOT, THAT A HOTEL SHOULD NOT HAVE A SPECIALTIES PERMIT ATTACHED TO IT. THAT WAS THE PROPOSAL. THEY ARE REQUIR, THEY'RE REQUIRING AN SUP RIGHT NOW. MM-HMM . EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE CENTRAL TO THE CAMPUS LIKE DEVELOPMENT. SO THE THOUGHT PROCESS WAS IT SHOULD BE BY RIGHT. AND NOT SUP. THAT WAS WHAT I WAS SAYING. SO, SO I WAS MOVING IT UP THERE. THAT WAS MY INDUSTRIAL, THIS IS AN M-C-D-M-C-D-I, I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD QUALIFY THEM AS CENTRAL TO A CAMPUS LIKE DEVELOPMENT. IT'S NICE POTENTIALLY, BUT I COULD SEE THERE BEING POTEN TRACKS OR AREAS WHERE THAT MIGHT NOT BE SOMETHING THAT IT WOULD BE A GOOD USE PER SE. SO, UM, IT WOULD JUST DEPEND ON WHAT'S NEXT TO IT. YEAH. SO WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS APPROPRIATE. YES. THIS IS VERY DEPENDENT ON WHAT IT'S, WHAT'S IN THERE. AND THEN TOURIST HOMES. DO WE HAVE, IS THERE A DEFINITION FOR A TOURIST HOME? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? YEAH, WE HAVE THAT. OKAY. SO THIS, THIS WAS, UM, JUST A THOUGHT PROCESS HERE. WE, WE DON'T AGREE. THEN WE CAN REJECT THIS IF YOU DON'T, UH, IT'S, IT, I CAN SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THAT IT IS DEPENDENT AND IF IT IS HIGHLY, IF YOU BELIEVE IT'S HIGHLY DEPENDENT, THEN THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT MAKES SENSE. WELL, IT IS DEPENDENT IF PERSONAL SERVICES IN RETAIL IT, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT YEAH, THAT'S ONE OF THE ORIGINAL ONES IN HERE. YEAH. THAT'S WEIRD. SO YEAH, I MEAN THE IMPACT THAT A HOTEL OR MOTEL WILL HAVE ON THE SURROUNDING AREA, THE SEVERITY OF THAT IMPACT WILL DIFFER BASED ON LOCATION. WELL, LIKE IF YOU HAVE A RESEARCH PARK OR SOME, LIKE, I'VE STAYED AT HOTELS THAT ARE IN LIKE A RESEARCH PARK. OH, FOR SURE. YOU DON'T HAVE LIKE THE AMENITIES YOU WANT NEAR THE HOTEL PER SE. LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE THE RESTAURANT RIGHT BY THERE. OH, SURE. BUT THAT'S ALSO WHY THOSE HOTELS TEND TO BE LESS EXPENSIVE. THEY ARE LESS EXPENSIVE. YEAH. SO IT IS REALLY A DEBATE OF WHETHER MM-HMM . ANYWAY, I FOUND IT DEBATABLE AT, AT A MINIMUM FOR WORTH DISCUSSION. WELL, IF IT'S DEBATABLE, THEN WOULDN'T YOUR, THE INCLINATION, I MEAN, DEBATABLE FOR OUR PERMIT. YEAH. OKAY. I I'M NOT HARD OVER ON THIS IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY. SO LEMME JUST SCROLL DOWN REAL QUICK. DOWN TO SPECIAL USE PRIOR. OKAY. GOT IT. GOT IT. I JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT THAT LOOKED LIKE SO I DIDN'T DELETE SOMETHING NEEDED TO BE THERE. OKAY. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS YOU, I WOULD WANT IT TO BE ESPECIALLY . OKAY. THEN REJECT THIS, REJECT THIS ONE, THEN I'M FINE WITH THAT. I, I, I, I GO ON WITH YOUR, YOUR ARGUMENT, BUT IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THE SHOPPING CENTERS AND THE THEATERS AND THE PHARMACIST, THIS IS WHAT, JUST THE AMALGAMATION OF THE COMMERCIAL. PLUS LET'S THROW SOME INDUSTRIAL IN THERE TOO. IT IS COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL. THIS IS JUST EVERYTHING THROWN INTO ONE POT. BUT IT'S WHAT MAKES YOU, I MEAN IT'S MAKES USE CAMPUS. SO, UM, THIS PREDOMINANTLY NON-RESIDENTIAL CO PRESIDENTIAL . SO IT'S ALMOST LIKE P AND D LIGHT OR LIKE REVERSE P AND D WHERE IT'S PRIMARILY COMMERCIAL CENTER RESIDENTIAL. UM, WHAT ARE WE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT? UH, THIS IS A WRONG LINE. SO WE'RE NOT ACCEPTING THIS, RIGHT? OR YOU'RE STILL TALKING? WE STILL WORKING. UH, THE, THE HOTELS MOTELS IS GONNA BE STAYING IN SPECIAL USE PERMIT. OKAY. AS OF A MINUTE AGO. YEAH. UH, THAT MAY CHANGE AGAIN IN THE PRESENT CONVERSATION. . UM, SO THE FLEA MARKET WOULD NEED A SPECIAL . THE ONLY MCD PROPERTY WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IN [00:45:01] TOWN IS THE, UM, WHAT WAS GONNA BE IT FEDERAL? THAT KENDRICK LANE, OR SORRY. NO, THERE'S IT, IT FEDERAL IS PART OF YES. SORRY, WHAT IT YEAH, THERE'S ON THE WEST SIDE, UM, OVER OFF OF KENDRICK LAYING BY THE TRAIN TRACKS. YEAH. AND THEN ON THE EAST SIDE OFF OF PART OF THAT, THAT TOP THE WHOLE THING. SO I MEAN, THE HOSPITAL I DON'T THINK IS BE BUILDING A CAR PARK NEXT TO IT. SO JUST BE OVER HERE MORE LAND. THEY WHAT? THEY, THEY GO, THEY DO OWE MORE LAND THERE. I MEAN, IS THIS ENTIRE THING THE HOSPITAL, I MEAN, IT CAN'T BE THE WHOLE THING. THAT'S I'M WHOLE APARTMENT. MM-HMM . RIGHT? YEAH. UM, YEAH. SO I MEAN, IS THOSE TWO AREAS PREDOMINANTLY MM-HMM . UM, I ACTUALLY AM JUSTIN. I JUST A THOUGHT TO PUT OUT WITH, WE'RE ALSO, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING THROUGH EVERYTHING WITH ZONING, IF ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS REDUCE WHAT, REDUCE POTENTIAL SPRAWL. IF WE LOOK AT THE LOCATIONS OF THE TWO MCD ZONED AREAS, IF THOSE WERE TO BECOME COMMERCIAL PARKS, LET'S CALL IT, RIGHT? THAT IS ON THE EDGES BASICALLY OF TOWN, WOULD THAT THEN BE ENCOURAGING SPRAWL? I MEAN, TOWN'S ONLY 10 SQUARE MILES, RIGHT? THAT TRUE. ALSO LOOKING AT, YOU BASICALLY BE CREATING A NEW LITTLE CORE. SO YOU'VE GOT SOUTH STREET, WHICH IS LIKE A COMMERCIAL CORE, RIGHT? MM-HMM . LIKE A STRIP THERE. YOU'VE GOT MAIN STREET, UM, YOU'VE GOT THAT TINY BIT OF COMMERCIAL UP BY THE BRIDGES MM-HMM . SO YOU'VE GOT THESE LITTLE POCKETS. UM, OKAY. THAT'S FAIR. THIS THIS THING IS KIND OF WRITTEN AS IF THERE'S GONNA BE THIS BIG EXPANSIVE ALLOWED LAND THAT WITH ALL SORTS OF STUFF IN IT. THE INTENT BEHIND THIS, I THINK IS LIKE, IT, IT IT IS LIKE A P AND DI MEAN, THEY'RE GONNA COME IN AND IT'S GONNA BE PLANNED OUT AND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT OF, UM, POTENTIALLY DIFFERENT THINGS IN IT. RIGHT? BUT IN THE REAL WORLD, I MEAN, TYPICALLY LIKE BUSINESSES OF THE SAME TYPE KIND OF STICK TOGETHER. IT'S THAT, UH, WELL, IT'S LIKE HOW, UH, WENDY'S, MCDONALD'S, THE FAST FOOD ALWAYS LOCATES YOUR FAST FOOD. LIKE, IT, IT IS STILL IN A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP. WHAT, WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, REALLY, WE HAVE ALL THESE USES THAT COULD BE, YEAH. BUT WHATEVER IS USED, UM, BUILT DO A SELECTION OF THESE, BUT THEN OTHER THINGS WOULD NO LONGER BE APPROPRIATE. RIGHT. IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT THEY START OUT DOING. SO DO YOU WANT TO DISCOURAGE ANY OF THOSE THINGS BASED ON WHOEVER ORIGINALLY DID THIS? BUT IT, IT IS A, IT'S A POT OF JUST ABOUT YEAH. ANYTHING. AND I JUST WANNA BE CLEAR. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, LEAVING THIS AS IS MEANS THAT'S, YOU KNOW, TOMORROW WE'RE GONNA HAVE A TON OF STUFF GOING IN THERE. NO, I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO THINK. WELL, SOME NEWSPAPER AND OTHER, WHAT IS THAT NAME? PRINTING ESTABLISHMENT? UH, IT NEWSPAPER. YEAH, NEWSPAPER. I MEAN THAT SEEMS LIKE THAT COMING OBSOLETE. BUT, BUT YOU KNOW, MAGAZINES OR ANYTHING ELSE COULD GO IN OR SOME TYPE OF PRESS. MM-HMM . KNOW, WHO KNOW KINKO'S MIGHT COME BACK. . I MISS KINKOS. I MISS KINKOS TOO. UM, ALL RIGHT. UH, EVERYTHING ELSE ON HERE? SCENE. FINE. I MEAN ALSO WITH RESTAURANT WE'RE SAYING ACCEPT DRIVE-IN, SO THAT MEANS NO FIL-A CHICK-FIL-A IN THE MIDDLE OF THE INDUSTRIAL CLUB, WHICH I DON'T KNOW, I THINK I WOULD ALMOST WANT TO ALLOW SOMETHING LIKE THAT SO LIKE EVERYBODY CAN AT LUNCH. YEAH. I THINK LIKE WHEN I WORKED IN STERLING, THERE WAS A HOTEL IN OUR INDUSTRIAL PARK WHERE OUR OFFICE BUILDINGS WERE MM-HMM . AND IT HAD A LIKE, LITTLE SANDWICH SHOP AND THAT'S WHERE EVERYBODY WENT BECAUSE IT WAS SO CLOSE. MM-HMM . UM, WELL I THINK THE, GOING BACK TO THIS TYPE OF VISION, THESE ARE THE LITTLE RESTAURANTS THEY BUILD IN THE BOTTOM FLOOR OF AN INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. THINGS LIKE THAT AS AND DISCOURAGING THE, THE WENDY'S AND THAT SORT OF THING. YEAH. I THINK THAT WAS THEIR INTENT HERE. MM. THAT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE I'VE WORKED IN DOZENS OF THOSE LITTLE PARKS WHO WILL HAVE, IT MIGHT EVEN BE A MOM AND POP RESTAURANT IN THE, IN THE FIRST FLOOR. YEAH. AND ACTUALLY TOO THAT IF WE'RE TRYING TO ENCOURAGE MORE LOCAL BUSINESSES, I MEAN DRIVE-INS VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME ARE GONNA BE YOUR LARGE CHAINS. I THINK IT'D BE BETTER TO ALSO ALLOW FOOD TRUCKS SO THEY CAN JUST GO AND PARK THERE. AND THE CURRENT REGULATION WHEN IT COMES TO WHERE FOOD TRUCK IS SET UP LESS IN [00:50:01] THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICTS. YEAH, WE DO. I THOUGHT THERE, WE HAD AN ISSUE WITH THAT ONE OUT ON PROGRESS DRIVE. REMEMBER THEY WANTED TO DO A FOOD TRIAL. WE COULDN'T. UH, I THINK THEY'RE ALLOWED. I'D HAVE TO LOOK UP, BUT I THINK THEY'RE ALLOWED AT MCD, WE ALLOW THEM AN MCD, BUT WE DON'T ALLOW THEM AN I ONE I TWO. WHAT DOES, I'D HAVE TO LOOK UNDER THE DEFINITION. IF SOMEONE, UH, WELL, I'D HAVE TO PULL UP THE FORM UNDER, UH, WHAT ARE WE PULLING UP? BECAUSE REMEMBER THEY SUBMITTED IT. SOMEBODY WAS BEEN, IT'S UNDER, UH, WELL, SOLICITORS, I BELIEVE. WOULD IT BE IN THE ZONING HERE? BECAUSE FOOD TRUCK DOESN'T EXIST IN THIS DOCUMENT. UM, THAT'S UNDER THE, UH, ITINERANT MERCHANT SOLICITOR LER PEDDLE. OKAY. SO IT'S DIFFERENT SECTION. IT'S IN THE BUSINESS LICENSE PART. GOTCHA. SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO PUT INTO, WE STILL . YOU'D HAVE TO LOOK AT, YOU HAVE A, IS IT 1 75? 63? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, A FOOD TRUCK IS NOT A LAND USE. OKAY. THEY'RE, THAT'S WHY IT'S IN A DIFFERENT SECTION. WE SHOULD BE LETTING THESE THINGS OPERATE IN THESE. IT'S WEIRD NOT TO. LIKE WOULD THAT BE A PART OF THE CUDDLER? YEAH, THAT WOULD NOT BE THIS CODE. THAT WOULD BE THE OTHER CODE THAT WOULD HAVE TO MEND TO LET IT IN IN A CERTAIN DISTRICT. FIND IT REAL QUICK. 98. OKAY. CHAPTER NINE. I THINK IT'S 98. 53. OKAY. SO JUST LOOKING AT, FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS, IT'S A RED HERRING. OKAY. I THINK, YEAH. BUSINESS HORIZON ON OCCUPATIONAL LICENSING. OKAY. THAT'S A DIFFERENT SECTION. LET'S KEEP GOING ON THIS SECTION. UH, I HAVE A QUESTION. UNDER ORGANIZATIONAL, WE HAVE SCHOOLS, ADULT INSTRUCTIONAL FACILITIES ONLY. WHAT? JUST TRADE SCHOOLS. BUT WE HAVE COLLEGE UP HERE. UM, DO WE HAVE TRADES? YEAH. WITHOUT 98 61? NO, WE DON'T. OKAY. SO THAT WOULD REALLY ONLY BE TRADE SCHOOLS. YEAH. OKAY. BUSINESS PROFESSIONAL AND OCCUPATIONAL LICENSING. OKAY. 98 61. WHAT'S, WHAT DISTRICT'S THAT ALLOWED IN. DOES IT SAY THE APPLICATION. ALRIGHT. UM, ANYTHING ELSE IN THE BUY RIGHT USES THAT WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT OR LOOK AT EVERYTHING? NOT, NOT ME PERSONALLY. DID WE, LIKE I SAY, THIS IS SUCH A, CERTAINLY FIRE STATIONS ARE JUST ABOUT GOOD ANYWHERE. OH, A HUNDRED PERCENT. NO. MY QUESTION IS, DO WE NEED, I, I REMEMBER IN THE LAST WORK SESSION WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC WORDING THERE. OH. BUT NO, WE DECIDED THAT IT DIDN'T NEED A DEFINITION BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT IT'S, EVERYONE KNOWS THE DEFINITION ON SOME THINGS. YES. OKAY. AND THEN WE DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, IT'S JUST LIBRARIES ACROSS THE BOARD. RIGHT. UM, OKAY. SIGNS BY. RIGHT. WHAT DOES THAT, I MEAN, I KNOW THE DEFINITION OF THE SIGN. YES. I WOULD HOPE I WOULD. UM, HOW I LOOKED AT IT WOULD BE AN ADVERTISEMENT SIGN OF SOME SORT, UH, IN MISCELLANEOUS BY WRITER. SO THAT WOULD BE IN A SEPARATE SECTION. WELL, THERE SIGNS SEPARATE CHAPTER OF THE, LIKE BY THEMSELVES. MM-HMM . WOW. SO THEY, THEY SHOULDN'T BE HERE BECAUSE THERE ARE NO SIGNS BY RIGHT. THERE ARE EXEMPT SIGNS. THESE ARE DIFFERENT USES. SO THERE ARE EXEMPT SIGNS, BUT THERE ARE NO SIGNS BY. RIGHT. DOES THAT MEANS WE TAKE IT OUT OF A LIST OF BY RIGHT. USES. YEAH. THE SIGN IS NOT USED. WHAT THAT IS A SIGN IS NOT USED. RIGHT. RIGHT. SO THEY'RE ALLOWED IN THE C ONE, C TWO AND THE MCD PEDDLERS AND ITINERANT MERCHANTS. BUT REMEMBER WE'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH PEOPLE THAT WERE LIKE, HEY, THIS WOULD BE GREAT IN THE I WELL THAT'S IN THE END IN THE I SECTION. BUT THE MCD, THAT WOULD BE, LET'S JUST DELETE THE SIGNS. THAT DOESN'T I, RIGHT. UM, ALRIGHT, SO, UH, IT'S SEP USES AND THEN OF COURSE THIS IS WHERE YOU HAVE YOUR RESIDENTIAL BECAUSE IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE PRIMARILY RESIDENTIAL HERE. UM, DAYCARE STUFF. WE'LL BRING THIS ONE BACK. YEP. UH, GASOLINE SALES, ASSUMING THAT MEANS A GAS STATION. . I DON'T KNOW. . IT'S LINE 95. UM, IT'S SIX POINT 12.3. UH, UNDER [00:55:01] COMMERCIAL THERE'S GASOLINE SALES ION. I DON'T THINK I'VE SEEN THAT. YEAH, THAT WOULDN'T, WOULD THAT JUST BE FUEL? FUEL SALES, FUEL ESTABLISHMENT? WELL, UM, THAT'S TYPICALLY, UM, A SERVICE STATION. YEAH. UNDER OUR CODE. SO SHOULD BY DEFINITION, I DON'T A LOT OF SERVICE STATIONS FOR A GASOLINE SALE BECAUSE WE DON'T BIG HUGE SERVICE. WE HAVE GREAT BIG, HUGE TYPES. A SERVICE STATION SHOULD BE FUEL SERVICE STATION. WELL, IF YOU SAY FUEL, THEN THEY MIGHT HAVE PROPANE TANKS OR OIL TANKS OR SOMETHING. BUT IT'S BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT, IS IT NOT? YES. SO THAT WOULD BE A, A A A SERVICE STATION, WHICH DOES OFFER LUBRICANTS IN FUEL. YEAH. ON, I CAN'T SEE THE NUMBER. 95. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . HOPING GASOLINE SALES FOR SERVICE STATION. OH. AND THEN DRIVING RESTAURANTS. MM-HMM . YEAH. UM, I LOST, I'M BEHIND NOW, SO I DON'T KNOW. OKAY. DAYCARES. I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE'RE AT. . CAN WE BACK UP JUST A SECOND? ONCE WE UH, CORRECT THE, UH, A LIEN SALES? YEAH. JUST GO AHEAD AND ACCEPT THOSE CHANGES TOO. THAT WAY THE DOCUMENTS COMPLETE. UM, SO YEAH, UP HERE IN THE BUY RIGHTS, WE REMOVED SIGNS BECAUSE WHY WAS IT THERE? SIGNS IS UNDER WHAT LINE IS THAT? THAT WAS LINE 80. I'M SORRY. I TRIED TO, THIS SHOULD GO RIGHT TO YOU. WHEN THEY CHANGE IT, IT SHOULD POP UP ON THEN DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. I WAS JUST TRYING TO BE A BACKUP IN CASE WE MISSED ANYTHING. YEAH, NO. NOPE. YOU'RE GOOD. NO, IT DON'T WORRY. DID YOU LOG IN THROUGH NO, IN THAT BOX? I HAVE. I IT SEPARATE BECAUSE I DON'T, HE HASN'T SHOWN ME HOW I EVEN KNOW THAT'S EXISTED. SO CONNIE, WOULD YOU REMOVE SIGNS WE REMOVE? OKAY. YES. UM, IF WE ARE GOING THROUGH THIS AND MAKING CHANGES AND THEN HITTING, ACCEPT THOSE CHANGES. SO THE DOCUMENT VERSION SHOWS IT AS JUST WHAT WE AGREED ON. IT DOESN'T SHOW WHAT IT PREVIOUSLY WAS. IS THAT A PROBLEM FOR YOUR RECORDS? I DON'T THINK SO. NO. OKAY. AND, AND YOU CAN JUST SAVE THIS DOCUMENT YEAH. WHEN YOU'RE DONE MM-HMM . AND THEN EMAIL IT TO ME OR EVERYBODY OR WHATEVER. OR I'M JUST PULL IT UP. JUST PULL IT UP IN THIS THING. WE SHOULD ACCESS IT. LIKE WHEN WE WERE EDITING OUR POWERPOINT THIS WEEK, ANYTIME THEY MADE A CHANGE, IT POPPED UP. IT'S A CHANGE ON MY, SEE NO ONE EVEN TOLD ME THAT EXIST, THAT EXISTED. WELL, WE'RE JUST LETTING WE ALL FOUND OUT FIRST TIME OURSELVES. YOU'LL EMAIL ME TOMORROW. ALL RIGHT. SO ARE THERE SPECIALTIES PERMIT, UH, THINGS THAT ARE COMMERCIAL AUTOMOBILE REPAIR, DAYCARES, MOTELS, HOTELS, ET CETERA. SERVICE STATION, UH, DRIVE-IN RESTAURANTS, THAT'S WHERE YOU GET YOUR MCDONALD'S. MAKE A, MAKE SURE THAT DEFINITE WE HAVE THE DEFINITION FOR THAT. WELL, THAT COULD SOMEHOW, THAT COULD WENT BACK TO SERVICE STATION. WE CHANGED IT TO FUEL SERVICE STATION. NO, WE REMOVED THE DEFINITION IS SERVICE STATION SERVICE IN PARTICULAR. OKAY. MM-HMM . AND I'LL CONFIRM THAT DEFINITION. YEAH. ALRIGHT. UM, AND WE ALSO HAD INDUSTRIAL IN DISTRIBUTION, MEDIUM RESTAURANTS. THAT'S FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN PARTICULAR. YES. WHAT'S IT? UM, LIGHT INDUSTRY. WE HAVE LIGHT MANUFACTURING, UH, WHOLESALE WAREHOUSE. WE HAVE COLLEGES AND SCHOOLS THAT DO HAVE LIVING QUARTERS. SO CUTTING THE REQUIREMENT FROM 50 TO 25, THAT WAS, UH, KIND OF A CALL. SO HOW MUCH DO WE REALLY NEED? DO WE REALLY NEED 50 CONTINUOUS PAGES IN ORDER TO DO THIS AT 25? UH, I, I THINK IT COULD BE DONE EVEN WITH LESS, DEPENDING ON WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. MM-HMM . DEPENDS. WE HAVE THIS WHOLE LAUNDRY LIST OF STUFF THAT CAN'T BE MM-HMM . DEPENDING ON WHO THE CORE OF THE CAMPUS IS THAT LIKE THINGS WILL GO AROUND OR COMPLIMENTARY THINGS GO ROUNDED. HOW MANY ACRES IS NECESSARY TO DO THAT? AND IT SEEMED REASON. AND, AND ALSO TOO, IF YOU WANT TO ENCOURAGE THESE SORTS OF DEVELOPMENTS A LITTLE BIT SMALLER WOULD BE BETTER. THAT'S THE REASONING BEHIND IT. NOW. THE 25, BUT, OR 26 OR 28 OR 20, YOU KNOW, THERE'S, IT JUST, UM, 50 JUST SEEMED EXCESSIVE. YOU DON'T HAVE THAT LARGE YEAH. ARTICLES. I'M JUST THINKING EVEN IF YOU DO A, I THINK BY HAVING A 50, WE SAY WILL NEVER HAPPEN. YOU'RE BASICALLY, YEAH. YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY, ESSENTIALLY PROHIBITING IT. WELL, [01:00:01] I MEAN, I KNOW THAT SOME OF THESE ARE, THESE ARE NOT ALL OWNED BY ONE PERSON OBVIOUSLY, BUT UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THESE TWO LARGE AREAS. I MEAN, THEY'RE HUGE COMPARED TO, BUT LIKE WHERE THE HOSPITAL IS, THAT'S, YOU'VE GOT SOME STEEP SLOPES THERE. IT'S GRUMPY. THAT'S NEVER GONNA, AND, AND SO THEN YOU HAVE OVER HERE, WHICH IS, THAT'S THE EDA LAND. OH, THIS WAS THE EDA LAND. WELL THE ONE NEXT TO THE PURPLE ONE NEXT TO THE PURPLE IS, IS WELL, BUT THE PURPLE ONE'S BUILDABLE. THE BLUE ONE'S NOT. THAT'S WHERE, AND SO THEN THAT'S IT. SO THEN YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE A REZONING. BUT IF WE LOOK AT THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP TOO, WE DON'T HAVE, I DON'T THINK THAT FUTURE LAND USE SHOWS ANYTHING INDUSTRIAL UP IN THE LAKE NORTH HAPPY CREEK. SO YOU HAVE A, THIS HAS IT ALL AS RESIDENTIAL. YEAH. UP HERE IT HAS AN UPHILL BATTLE. WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF BUILDING THIS FOR SOMETHING THAT MAY NEVER HAPPEN. RIGHT. THAT'S PART OF IT. BUT I THINK WHEN YOU START CUTTING DOWN THE MINIMUM, YOU KNOW, DISTRICT REQUIREMENT LIKE SIZE REQUIREMENTS, THAT FACTS, THAT'S WHEN YOU START OPENING IT UP TO BEING EASIER TO DEVELOP AT THAT POINT TO DEVELOP WITH 50. ANYWAY, THAT, THAT WAS THE REASON BEHIND IT IS IT SEEMED LIKE BY HAVING IT AT 50, WE'RE GONNA SAY WE'LL NEVER HAVE ONE. SO WHY ARE WE HAVE, YOU HAVE A SECTION AND THE GOAL IS TO ONE DAY NOT BE A BEDROOM COMMUNITY. YOU WOULD THINK THAT MAKING IT EASIER FOR COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL AND MIXED CAMPUS USES WOULD BE IDEAL SET OF HOUSES. I MEAN, THAT ALSO SOUNDS LIKE IT'D BE MODIFYING THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP TO TAKE. WE WOULD ESSENTIALLY NORTH OF HAPPY CREEK. YEAH. AND THE REASON WE, WE DID THE COMP PLAN THAT WE DIDN'T SHOW THAT SOME OF THAT AS INDUSTRIAL IS BECAUSE LIKE THAT LARGE 640 SOME ACRE TRACK, THAT'S WHAT IS THAT BS A, THERE'S LIKE A, YOU'D HAVE TO GO TO BRIEF PANEL. ARE YOU TALKING AT THE ANNEX AREA? YEAH. YEAH. LIKE YOU'D HAVE TO GO TO COURT TO CHANGE THE ACCEPTING PLAN THAT, WELL, THE ANNEXED AREA CAME IN AT THE LOWEST INTENSE USE, WHICH IS AG. RIGHT. BUT THEN THAT'S WHAT IT IS CURRENTLY. RIGHT. AND THEN WASN'T THERE SOME PREJUDGMENT PANEL? WELL, ANNEXATIONS GO THROUGH COMMISSION ON LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND THROUGH JUDGE PANEL. YEAH. SO IS THAT ACCEPTABLE OR GO 25 OR? I JUST GET NERVOUS WHEN WE'RE CUTTING BY 50%. I, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND IT'S MORE OF A GUT FEELING AND I GUESS GOING LIKE THE NUMBER 25 IS A BIT OF A GUT THING AS WELL. SO I DON'T KNOW. UH, 50 ACRES IS CHUNKS HUGE. NO, AND I DON'T, I DON'T MIND PRODUCING. I JUST, I JUST GO FIVE ACRES IS STILL A BIG, IT'S STILL PRETTY BIG. I THINK. I THINK YOU COULD PROBABLY DO IT 15. I'D BE COMFORTABLE WITH 10. YEAH. MAYBE 25 IS OKAY. BUT, BUT BINGO. OKAY. OKAY. 25. IT IS . SO THAT'S AN, OKAY. YEP. WE'LL GO TO 25 . ALRIGHT. UM, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING ON THE CONCEPT PLAN? WHAT'S GONNA BE REQUIRED AND ALL OF THAT? UM, I MEAN IT SEEMS PRETTY ALL, ALL THIS, ALL THIS SEEMS PRETTY GOOD THERE. YEAH. ENVIRONMENTAL ANALYSIS, IMPACT STATEMENTS, UM, AND THEY ALSO HAVE SUBSTANTIAL CONFORMANT. YEAH. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UM, SO LAUREN, COULD YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND, WHEN IT COMES TO THE LOT SIZE, WHY WE WOULD SAY THERE'S NO MINIMUM NEW LOTS CREATED ON MCV PARCELS HAVE NO MINIMUMS EXCEPT FOR QUARTER LOTS. SECTION 6.1, 2.6. YES. IT SEEMS INTERESTING. AND THAT'S OUR CURRENT CODE. YES. THERE SHOULD BE ANOTHER PORTION OF HOW YOU, IF YOU, THE REZONING RATE, WELL THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE, UM, ARE THEY SUBMITTING LIKE THEIR MASTER PLAN WORK WITH, THEY HAVE TO HAVE A MASTER PLAN TO GO WITH THIS. YES. BUT SHOULDN'T THAT MASTER PLAN BE GUIDED, AT LEAST IN PART BY A MINIMUM LOSSES [01:05:01] WHEN YOU'RE REZONING AND YOU'RE ACCEPTING THIS DEVELOPMENT, YOU'RE GETTING TO SEE WHAT IT'S GONNA BE UP FRONT, THEN THAT'S GONNA . WELL, UH, TO AN EXTENT. I MEAN, I RECALL AS WELL WHEN, UM, UH, THEY, DURING THE LAST, UH, POTENTIAL P AND D REZONING, THE, THEY HAD AN IDEA OF WHAT THAT SITE PLAN WOULD LOOK LIKE, BUT THERE WAS NO, THERE WAS FOR ALL RIGHT. AND I CAN SEE THAT BEING SIMILAR HERE. SO THEN IF WE HAVE IT WHERE THEY SAY, WELL THIS IS OUR IDEA, THIS IS WHAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE TO AN EXTENSION SOME EXTENT OR ANOTHER, AND THEN IT'S APPROVED, AND THEN THERE'S NO MINIMUM LOT SIZES TO SAFEGUARD. ARE WE POTENTIALLY WALKING OURSELVES INTO AN ISSUE WHERE THEY CAN STILL CLAIM IT'S IT BY, YOU KNOW, IT CONFORMS FOR THE MOST PART, BUT NOW YOU HAVE THESE AREA, THESE STOPS THAT WELL, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I'M JUST, I ALSO DON'T KNOW THAT IF YOU SET LOT SIZE AND HOW YOU DEAL WITH IT, HOW DO YOU MAKE IT SO IT'S NOT ARBITRARY? HOW DO YOU, UM, BY NOT HAVING ALLOWED, YOU COULD ENCOURAGE THEM TO USE THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF LAND. YEAH. WITHIN THE AREA. I'M SURE THAT WAS THE INTENT OF, BECAUSE THERE WERE SETBACK OR THERE'S YARDS WHERE THEY'RE NOT YEAH, THERE, YEAH, THERE ARE YARD, THERE ARE SETBACKS. UM, WELL ZERO FEET FOR SIDE OVER HERE. UM, WHICH, AND I MEAN FOR SOME OF THE COMMERCIAL I CAN, I CAN UNDERSTAND YOU CAN HAVE THINGS ABUTTING RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER. THAT'S NO PROBLEM. BUT BECAUSE LIKE YOU'VE GOT THE PERFORMANCE CENTER, SO AS YOU GO DOWN, YOU'VE GOT THE OPEN SPACE, RIGHT? MM-HMM . UM, 30%, UH, DEDICATED. TYPICALLY YOU'RE GONNA LOSE A GOOD 10, 15% JUST FOR INFRASTRUCTURE. SO YOUR ROADS, YOUR PARKING AREAS, THINGS LIKE THAT. THAT'S ALL EATING UP SQUARE FOOTAGE. MM-HMM . UM, I'M TRYING TO, WHERE, WHAT WOULD YOU SET THE LOT DOWN ON THAT? SO MY THOUGHT PROCESS HERE IS WHEN IT COMES TO COMMERCIAL, YOU CAN ALMOST LET THEM DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH, YOU KNOW, WITH THE QUOTE THERE. BUT I WOULD THINK WE WOULD STILL WANT A FORM OF PROTECTION FOR THE RESIDENTIALS. SO IF THERE IS A TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT THAT THEY WANNA PUT IN THERE OR A MULTI-FAMILY, I DON'T SEE WHY WE, WHY WE WOULDN'T JUST COPY PASTE WHAT WE HAVE ELSEWHERE. BUT THE, ANY RESIDENTIAL WOULD BE BY SUP IN THIS, THIS CONCEPT IS NON RESIDENTIAL. IT'S PRIMARILY NON-RESIDENTIAL, BUT IT ALLOWS FOR 40% OF RESIDENTIAL USE. AND THAT'S THE ONLY THING WHERE I'M SAYING MAYBE PUT IN LIKE WE RESTRICT THE RESIDENTIAL TO BEING ADJACENT TO LIKE COMMERCIAL ONLY. OR IF YOU PUT SOME OTHER, WELL I'M THINKING, UM, IF WE HAD, IF THEY WANTED TO PUT IN A FEW DUPLEXES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEN WHY NOT JUST COPY PASTE THE MINIMUM LOT WORK SIZES IF YOU WANNA PUT IN A DUPLEX. SURE. OR IF YOU WANNA PUT IN A, YOU KNOW, TOWNHOUSE LITTLE TOWNHOUSE ROW, SURE. BUT IT NEEDS TO HAVE THESE BUFFERS OR IT NEEDS TO HAVE THIS MINIMUM LOT SIZE AND YOU DON'T NEED FOR THE EXTRA WORK. BUT JUST TO PUT THOSE IN BECAUSE THEY COULD SUBMIT AN SUP. BUT IF WE DON'T HAVE THE STANDARDS TO SAY, WELL IT HAS TO BE AT LEAST THIS, THEN WE HAVE NO GROUND. SO YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE LIKE, WHAT HAPPENED ON ? IF THE PURPOSE OF ALL THIS IS TO ENCOURAGE BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY MM-HMM. WHY DO WE ALLOW RESIDENTIAL AT ALL? BECAUSE IT'S MIXED CAMP. MIXED USE CAMPUS. AND YEAH. SO THE IDEA WE HAVE TO KEEP RESIDENTIAL IN ORDER TO KEEP IT MIXED CAMPUS. WELL, BUT THE IDEA IS MIXED USE IN GENERAL. THAT'S IT. YOUR WALKABILITY AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IF IT'S BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT, YOU'RE GONNA EVALUATE WHETHER OR NOT IT'S APPROPRIATE GIVEN EVERYTHING ELSE THERE. WHEN THAT COMES BEFORE YOU, SO IF IT DOESN'T FIT OR IF IT'S TOO CLOSE TO SOMETHING THAT'S NOT COMPLIMENTARY OR THERE'S NOT SUFFICIENT SPACE, IN THEORY YOU WOULD DENY IT. AND THIS IS EXCUSE IF YOU ARE MOVING INTO, IF YOU PUT A TOWN HOME IN HERE, YOU'RE MOVING, YOU'RE, YOU'RE BUYING INTO THIS CONCEPT BY MOVING INTO THAT AREA. LIKE ACROSS THE STREET YOU LIKE YOU'D HAVE YOUR, YOU BASICALLY HAVE LIKE A CLUSTER OF RESIDENTIAL, RIGHT? YOU'D PROBABLY HAVE YOUR STORM WATER FACILITIES THAT WOULD ACT AS A BUFFER. YOU'D PROBABLY HAVE A STREET AND YOU CAN WALK OVER AND THEN YOU CAN GO TO WORK OR, UM, SO IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DENSITY AND STUFF [01:10:01] THAT GOES ALONG WITH THAT. YOU'RE BUYING INTO THE CONCEPT AS OPPOSED TO AN R ONE OR SOMETHING. BUT I WOULD THINK LIKE THE RESIDENTIAL WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE LIKE RIGHT OFF THE MAIN ROAD, RIGHT? IT WOULD BE, AS YOU COME INTO IT, IT WOULDN'T BE WAY, LIKE IT WOULDN'T BE IN THE MIDDLE COMPLETELY SURROUNDED BY THESE INCOMPATIBLE USES. I WOULD THINK THAT THEY WOULD NATURALLY BE, I BUILD IT SURROUNDED AGAIN. I JUST THINK PROBABLY OKAY. BECAUSE IT IS SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN THE OTHER. SO WELL LET, LET ME GIVE YOU LIKE R TWO AS AN EXAMPLE. MULTIFAMILY IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN R TWO AND WE STILL HAVE A MINIMUM LOT SIZE. AND THIS IS FOR ALL OTHER USES. MM-HMM . RIGHT? UM, IS MORE, MORE SPECIAL SPECIFIED FOR THE BUY RIGHT ONES. BUT ALL OUR OTHER USES BEING 5,000 SQUARE FEET. UM, AND UH, R THREE, UM, WE HAD APARTMENTS, TOWNHOUSES THAT ARE OVER AN ACRE, ET CETERA. AND THERE WE ALSO HAD A VARIETY OF MINIMUM LOT SIZES. SO IT'S NOT, IT GIVES GUIDANCE TO SOMEBODY WHO'S COMING FORWARD WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT AS OPPOSED TO THEM MAKING ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE PROCESS GETTING THERE. AND THEN WE SAY THESE LOT SIZES ARE TOO SMALL, THIS ISN'T GONNA WORK. THE IMPACT IS GONNA BE TOO GREAT. IF THEY ALREADY KNEW WHAT THE BASELINE WAS, AN ABSOLUTE BARE MINIMUM OF IT HAS TO BE AT LEAST THIS, THEN IT GIVES THEM SOMETHING TO WORK WITH AND IT GIVES US GROUND TO SPEAK. IF SO, IT PROVIDES YOU SOME TYPE OF METRIC TO JUDGE IT ON. RIGHT. OKAY. IT MAKES IT LESS SUBJECTIVE GOING FORWARD AS WELL. ANY THOUGHT IMPLIED? WELL, THE PROBLEM I SEE WITH THAT IS THIS MIXED CAMPUS, YOU HAVE A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT USES, RIGHT? MM-HMM . SO NOW YOU HAVE A MIX OF RESIDENTIAL WITH COMMERCIAL, WITH INDUSTRIAL. SO TRYING TO SET A MINIMUM WITH EACH OF THOSE USES IN THIS M-C-D-I-I, I DON'T THINK IT'S, IT'S WOULD WORK BECAUSE THE RESIDENTIAL AND THOSE ARE WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. SO I KNOW YOU'RE IN GIVEN SOME GUIDANCE WITH THIS CONCEPT IS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER USES WE HAVE, WHEN YOU HAVE RESIDENTIAL, YOU CAN DO THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE RESIDENTIAL, R ONE, R TWO, R THREE WITH THE INDUSTRIAL SECTION. SAME THING. NOW YOU'RE COMBINING ALL THESE USES INTO ONE BIG POT. NOW WE'RE TRYING TO DEFINE LOT SIZES WITHIN THE BIG POT WITH THE ALPHABET SUIT, SO TO SPEAK. AND, AND THIS, THIS IS ALREADY, THIS IS A DESIGNED, RIGHT? SO IT'S DESIGNED, SO THE RESIDENTIAL, UH, WHEN I LOOK AT THE RESIDENTIAL BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME UP WITH SOME TYPE OF DESIGN CONCEPT. IF IT'S GONE TO RESIDENTIAL AND ALSO WITH THE INDUSTRIAL SECTION, UM, THE, THAT PART, ANY OF THOSE WITH SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DEFINE HOW THEY'RE GOING TO PUT THIS CONCEPT IN IT. UM, 'CAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE LIKE COMBINING ALL THESE OTHER USES AND DISTRICTS INTO ONE AND THEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT YOUR MINIMUM, WHAT SIZE IS GOING TO BE FOR THESE MM-HMM . IT SEEMS LIKE THIS, THIS HAS TO BE A PRE-PLANNED DEVELOPMENT WHERE EVERYTHING'S GOING IN. IF YOU'RE DOING RESIDENTIAL OR MULTI-FAMILY, UM, THEY WOULD HAVE TO, TO COME UP. WE WERE ADVISING THEM WHEN THEY CAME IN AND THEY CAME IN WITH LIKE A, UM, LIKE A BUBBLE MAP, RIGHT? WE WOULD KIND OF, KIND OF REVERT BACK TO WHAT AT, IF THEY'RE DOING MULTIFAMILY TOWNHOUSE, WE'D SAY, WELL THIS IS TYPICALLY WHAT A TOWNHOUSE TOWNHOUSE SECTION LOOKS LIKE AND THESE ARE THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS ON THE TOWNHOUSE. AND USUALLY THEY WOULDN'T DEVIATE TOO FAR FROM THAT. RIGHT? SAME WAY, IF YOU'RE DOING, I MEAN WE EVEN ALLOW A SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED OR DETACHED. SO, SO THIS WAS LIKE, LET'S JUST THROW THE WHOLE ZONING ORDINANCE INTO THIS SECTION AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. IT'S THE, AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. THAT WORRIES . SO PROBABLY WHY WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY OF IT BE DEVELOPED OUTSIDE THE HOSPITAL BECAUSE, BECAUSE IT'S 50 ACRES MINIMUM. SO IT, IT'S, BUT WITH THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THESE, THEN YOU COULD, AND THE OPEN SPACE, I MEAN IT, IT TURNS IT INTO A PUZZLE FOR THE ENGINEER TO FIGURE OUT MM-HMM . IT IS A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT CONCEPT. WE CAN ALWAYS [01:15:01] THINK ON THIS DISTRICT A LITTLE MORE. WE DON'T HAVE TO DECIDE EVERYTHING. THAT'S JUST, YEAH. I MEAN I'M NOT, I'M NOT TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, DIAL THAT HILL OR ANYTHING. IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE I, WHEN I SEE NO MINIMUMS REQUIRED AT ALL, IT JUST MAKES ME NERVOUS. I MEAN THEY'VE GOTTA HAVE, THEY HAVE TO COME UP WITH A CONCEPT PLAN TO BEGIN WITH, THEN THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO CALCULATE DRAINAGE. YEAH. YES. BUT EVERYTHING HAS TO WORK. THE OTHER THING IS IF WE WANT THESE TO POTENTIALLY PASS, IF WE LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE PREVIOUS, THE LAST P AND D, NOW GRANTED AS P AND D, WHICH IS ITS OWN HOT BUTTON TOPIC, BUT UM, ONE OF THE ISSUES, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME, WAS AN UNCERTAINTY WITH WHAT WAS GONNA HAPPEN. OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS TRAFFIC, THERE WAS A LOT OF OTHER STUFF WITH THAT ONE IN PARTICULAR. BUT IT WAS HOW DO WE KNOW THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY GONNA DO? SO, AND THEY COULD COME FORWARD WITH A CONCEPT PLAN WITH THE P AND D. THEY HAD TO HAVE, THEY HAD A YEAR TO GET A SITE PLAN SUBMITTED. RIGHT. BUT ONCE YOU START APPROVING, THEN IT MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT. WELL IT DOES SAY THE CONCEPT PLANS SHOW ILLUSTRATE HOW THE PROPERTY IS INTENDED TO BE DEVELOPED AND HOW THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT WILL CONFORM TO TOWN ORDINANCES, INCLUDING AS ANY ASSOCIATED PROPERTIES AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. SO YOU REALLY COULD, THAT CONCEPT PLAN SHOULD LAY OUT THE LOT SIZES. IF THEY'RE DOING SOME TYPE OF RESIDENTIAL, THEY SHOULD SHOW THAT TYPE OF RESIDENTIAL AND THOSE LOT SIZES WITH THERE, THEN YOU COULD VIEW THOSE LOT SIZES WITH THOSE INDIVIDUAL OTHER DISTRICTS THAT WE HAVE. THAT WOULD BE MY HOW ABOUT JUST INSTEAD OF SAYING ZERO SAY AS PER THE UM, SUBMITTED CONCEPT PLAN AS PER SUBMITTED CONCEPT PLAN, INSTEAD SAYING REQUIRE ARE LOT SIZE SOME OF THE WHAT IS DIMENSIONAL STANDARDS INCLUDED IN YOUR CONCEPT PLAN. OKAY. SO, OKAY, SO NEW LOGIC LOCATED ON PROPERTY WITH THE MCD DISTRICT. UM, I REMEMBER SHALL SEE WE'RE SOMETIMES YOU'RE ASSUMING THE RESIDENTIAL WHEN THEY COME WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE OWNERSHIP. YEAH. IT EITHER CASE BE A RESIDENTIAL OR INDUSTRIAL. THE STATEMENT STILL COULD STAND IF AS PER THE, WHAT, WHAT WAS THE WORDING AS PER BEING HERE? UM, AS PER THE CONCEPT PLAN. WHAT, WHAT'S THE NAME OF THE PLAN THEY SUBMIT? I'M SORRY? CONCEPT. CONCEPT PLAN. CONCEPT PLAN. OKAY. SO, BUT I WOULD ASK THAT IN THE CONCEPT PLAN THAT WE REQUIRE THE, THAT THE APPLICANT SHOW THE LOT SIZE THAT PROPOSED LOT SIZES AND YOU KNOW, ANY STANDARDS THAT BASICALLY IT'S THE SAME THING. SHOW SHOW AS PER, SO IN THAT CASE PER AGREED UPON PLAN. SO THAT WAY WE FORCE THEM TO DO A LITTLE BIT MORE ENGINEERING UP FRONT THAN THEY YEAH. WOULD REASONABLE WOULD DO IT. REASON. AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S AN UNFAIR ASK. NO. UM, ALRIGHT, SO NEW LOSS CREATED ON PROPERTY WITHIN BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. SHALL, UM, IN ACCORD WITH AGREED CONCEPT PLAN AGREED UPON CONCEPT PLAN MAINTAINED MINIMUM WA SIZES AS SET FORTH BY THE AGREED UPON CONCEPT PLAN? YEAH. MM-HMM . OKAY. I WOULD SAY APPROVED . OH YEAH, THAT'S . UM, AND THE SETBACK LINE FOR, UH, CORNER LOTS. THAT'S GOOD BECAUSE THAT HELPS. I ENSURE SITE DISTANCES THERE. OKAY. THAT'S CORRECT. SO LIKE THAT MM-HMM . OOPS. THAT IS A, DOES THIS LOOK GOOD TO YOUR PERSPECTIVE? WELL, UH, ACTUALLY I WAS LOOKING AT SOMETHING ELSE. I'M, I'M LOOKING AT THE INDUSTRIAL, WHAT I HEARD SOUNDED FINE. OKAY. YOU'RE ASSUMING THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS ALPHABET SOUP, SO TO SPEAK OF THIS, THE DEVELOPMENT IS GONNA CONTAIN ALL THESE USES AND IT MAY NOT, IT MAY NOT HAVE ALL OF THEM, YOU KNOW, IT, YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, HAVE NO RESIDENTIAL WHATSOEVER. [01:20:01] YEAH. AND I EXPECT IT COULD JUST BE PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS OFFICES AND MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, CLEAN. I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE. UM, I GUESS YES, THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, YOU'D THINK THAT MAYBE, YES, SOME OF THESE WOULD COME IN WITH SPECIAL USE PERMITS, BUT MM-HMM . I THINK COMING WITH COVENANTS AND ALL SORTS OF, I MEAN BEST OF PEOPLE PLANNED OUT THERE. I DON'T THINK YOU'D HAVE SURPRISE US AS IT WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS. OKAY. UM, ALL THE HEIGHT STUFF LOOK GOOD TO EVERYBODY. YEAH. UM, I WANT DAY NOT I CAUGHT ON THERE. GEORGE WAS UNDER D WELL YOU HAVE SIX POINT 12 SEVEN D CLEAR ZONE DETERMINED BY THE DIRECTOR. YOU SHOULD PROBABLY EXPAND ON THAT. OKAY. UH, WHERE AGAIN? DD SIX POINT 12.7 D THAT'S WHERE A CURSORY IS RIGHT NOW IN WHY WOULD I ENSURE APPROPRIATE EMERGENCY ACCESS? I WOULD DEFER TO JAR THE FIRE MARSHAL TO, WELL IT JUST SAYS DIRECTOR. YEAH. SO THAT IS THAT PLANNING DIRECTOR SAY, I HOPE NOT. , I DON'T WANNA BE RESPONSIBLE FOR SAYING THAT ADEQUATE EMERGENCY ACCESS IS THERE. I'M NOT, THAT IS NOT MY AREA OF EXPERTISE. THAT WOULD BE THE FIRE MARSHAL'S OFFICE, WOULD IT NOT? AND WHAT, WHY DO WE FOR APP EMERGENCY ACCESS, ACCESS AND FIRE BREAKS AND I MEAN WE WOULD PD WOULD, I WOULD ASK PD TO LOOK AT THAT OR LOOK AT A PLAN. I WOULD ASK THE FIRE. BUT STILL YOU WOULD SEND THIS, WE WOULD ROUTE IT. RIGHT? SO I PLANNING DIRECTOR. OKAY. IT JUST SAYS DIRECTOR. SO FOR ME TO JUST ROUTE IT OH YEAH. THEN IT COMES BACK TO YOU. YOU JUST NEED TO SAY PLANNING DIRECTOR OR JUST DIRECTOR IS FINE. THAT'S MY REASON I'M EXPRESSING AT THAT POINT YOU NEED TO PUT IN PLANNING DIRECTOR. WHY DON'T WE NOT HAVE THIS LANGUAGE IN OTHER SECTIONS THOUGH? WHY IS IT ONLY HERE THAT WE'RE HAVING THIS LANGUAGE? DO WE NEED THIS LANGUAGE? YEAH, WE DO. DO WE NEED IT IN OTHER SECTIONS WHERE WE HAVEN'T RUN INTO IT YET? NO, WE JUST NEED TO GET OUR MOU DONE. THE ALTERNATIVE WOULD BE TO JUST TAKE OUT, DETERMINED BY THE DIRECTOR SHALL BE ESTABLISHED TO INSURANCE. MM-HMM. RIGHT. I LIKE THAT BETTER AREA. OKAY. IT WOULD BE ESTABLISHED IN AREAS TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE EMERGENCIES. THEN WE WOULD, WE WOULD HAVE, WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO FACILITATE THAT TO OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES. RIGHT, RIGHT. SO, YEAH. OR IT GOT DETERMINED BY THE PLANNING DIRECTOR. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS READJUSTING. OKAY. I'M SORRY. NO, NO, NO. YOU'RE ALL YOU. UM, I'M GONNA PUT IN AN ACTUAL SPACE. GEORGE, CAN WE JUST BACK IT UP JUST A SEC BEFORE WE LEAVE THIS PAGE. AT THE VERY BEGINNING, GEORGE? THE SUBSTANTIAL CONFORMANCE TO CONCEPT PLAN. OH, USE OF THE WORD PROFFERS THERE. IS THAT OKAY? THE USE OF WHAT OF THE WORD PROFFER? IS THAT A CORRECT USE OF THE WORD PROFFERS? LEMME TAKE IT. UM, YES. OKAY. OKAY. YEAH. 'CAUSE IT SAYS THE SUBMISSION OF DEVELOPMENT PLAN PLAN WITH A REZONING APPLICATION CONCEPT OR DEVELOPMENT PLAN IS OFTEN OKAY. SO THAT AS LONG AS THAT IS OFTEN THAT WAS A PROPER GOOD CONDITION. WE CAN MOVE RIGHT ALONG. OKAY. SETBACKS IN YARDS 30, 20, 15, 0 AND ZERO. UM, AND WE HAVE A PROTECTION FOR RESIDENTIAL, WHICH IS GOOD. ANYONE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS OR CHANGES WITH THE OTHERS STANDARDS? I THOUGHT THIS ALL LOOKED FINE. UM, YEAH, I, I WAS DONE. I DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING ELSE IN THAT SECTION. YEAH. YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT SOUND STANDARDS ANY? NO. NO. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'RE GOOD TO JUST SKIP THROUGH? YEP. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE READY FOR I ONE. I THINK IT'S THE FASTEST WE'VE EVER GONE THROUGH. ONE , WELL, THIS ONE WASN'T, THIS ONE'S EASY IS KIND OF ESOTERIC [01:25:02] . ESOTERIC SOIC. THAT'S A GOOD WORD. IT IT WEIRD THAT ONE IS, SO IT WAS TOUGH TO CASE BY CASE. YEAH. IT WAS TOUGH TO READ. BUT ANYWAY, ANYWAY, UH, THIS AGAIN, I CHANGED THE FIRST PART OF THIS AND TRYING TO REFOCUS THE, UM, THE INDUSTRIAL AREAS TO BRING IT UP TO DATE, SO TO SPEAK. ALSO, WE HAVE INFORMATION ON THE INDUSTRIAL TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS. SO FOR I ONE, WE HAVE 108 LOTS IN TOWN THAT ARE ZONED I ONE. UM, SO IT CAME OUT TO ABOUT 229 ACRES. THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE WAS TWO ACRES AND ONLY 15 OF THOSE PARCELS WERE UNDEVELOPED. MM-HMM . UM, BUT 80, OR SORRY, 75% OF THE I ONE LOTS ARE IN THE FLOOD PLANE FLOOD ZONE. UM, YEAH, IT'S RIGHT UP THERE ALONG THE RIVER . AND THEN THROUGH TOWN THERE'S A, ONE OF THE SECOND OR THIRD MAP SHOWS YOU THE FLOODPLAIN WITH THE I. OH YEAH. I DIDN'T REALIZE HAPPY CREEK. OH, RIGHT. SO, AND THEN THE SAME FACTS AND FIGURES ARE KIND OF WRITTEN THERE IN THE CORNER OF THE MAP MM-HMM . SO IT'S MOSTLY ALREADY DEVELOPED. YEAH. SO KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT WHAT'S APPROPRIATE. BUT WITH US SPECIFICALLY, WATER DOESN'T . SO ARE THESE USES COMPATIBLE WITH WATER ALL THE ELECTRICITY? UM, ANYWAY, THE STATEMENT OF INTENT TO GO ALONG. YEAH. I'M, I'M INTERESTED IN HEARING ABOUT THE STATEMENT OF INTENT. IT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT'S GONNA BE IN BULLETS INSTEAD OF A PARAGRAPH. AND THE REASON I SAY THAT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE DEFINITIONS OF LIGHT, MEDIUM, AND HEAVY MANUFACTURING MM-HMM . AND, UM, THE INTENT THAT, THAT THOSE DEFINITIONS NEED TO CORRESPOND TO THE INTENT. OKAY. SO, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE CURRENT DEFINITIONS, UH, UM, CERTAINLY MEDIUM AND HEAVY TALK ABOUT IMPACTS OUTSIDE OF, THEY, THEY TALK ABOUT EXTERNAL IMPACTS OF THE USE. SO I WAS READING THROUGH THIS AGAIN TO SEE WHAT, UH, I'M CLEAN LOW IMPACT INDUSTRY. WELL, WHEN YOU SAY BRING IT TO, BRING IT TO DATE OR BRING IT UP TO, OH, OKAY. CURRENT OR MODERN STANDARDS. UH, I'M, I'M JUST SUGGESTING YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND OUR CURRENT DEFINITIONS OF WHAT HEAVY THAT ARE ALLOWED USES, ALLOWED OR BY SUP IN THESE ZONES. OKAY. DO YOU, DO YOU THINK THAT SOMETHING I WROTE HERE IS IN VIOLATION? OR NO, NOT, IT SEEMS THAT IT IS ROLLING BACK. IT'S, IT'S ROLLING BACK. SOME OF THE UH, OR THE INTENT, THE STATEMENT OF INTENT SEEMS TO BE THAT THESE ZONES, THAT INTENT MORE INTENSE USES AREN'T APPROPRIATE. AND YET BY DEFINITION, INDUSTRIAL IS MUST BE, THEY ARE MORE INTENSE USES IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEFINITION. SO, SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WE MAY NEED TO PUT THE DEFINITIONS WELL, DEPENDING ON WHERE THE COMMISSION'S GOING WITH THIS. SO THE, THE, THE, THE BY RIGHT. AND THE SUP USES MAY NOT CORRESPOND TO THE STATEMENT OF INTENT. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY. UHHUH . OKAY. OKAY. NOW I, NOW I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YEP. AND, UH, SO WITH, WITH THAT IN MIND THEN IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AS, AS WE GO THROUGH, UM, STATEMENT INTENT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DIDN'T VIOLATE IN PARTICULAR THE INDUSTRIAL, THE INDUSTRIAL PORTION. OKAY. NOW I SEE, WHICH I EQUATE TO MANUFACTURING. IF YOU READ THE DEFINITIONS OF LIGHT, MEDIUM, AND HEAVY MANUFACTURING, UHHUH IT TALK, THE WORD INDUSTRIAL IS IN THOSE DEFINITIONS, THERE IS NO DEFINITION OF INDUSTRIAL LIGHT, MEDIUM, OR HEAVY INDUSTRIAL. SO I THINK THE OTHER THREE DEFINITIONS, UM, SO FINISH OR INTERCHANGEABLE. OKAY. SO ARE YOU PROPOSING WE TAKE OUT, I'M JUST TRYING TO BRING IT TO COMMISSION'S ATTENTION. ARE WE TRYING TO, SO YOU DON'T HAVE INCONSISTENCY. ALRIGHT. CAN, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? DO WE NEED TO HANDLE THIS TO EVERYBODY ELSE? NEED TO? WE DON'T NEED BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S GETTING PRETTY EXHAUSTED DOWN THAT END THE TABLE. 'CAUSE THEY WERE HERE LAST NIGHT UNTIL LATER ON THIS. SO IF THERE'S NO [01:30:01] COMPELLING NEED AND, AND IN FACT I'M SORRY THERE, IF THERE'S NO COMPELLING NEED TO DEAL WITH THIS TONIGHT. WELL IN FACT, UH, MCD LIGHT IS BY RIGHT MEDIUM SPECIAL USE PERMIT. IF YOU READ MEDIUM MANUFACTURING, IT'S, IT'S READ TO ME IT READS PRETTY, HAS A PRETTY INTENSE USE. OKAY. IN THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT. SO LIKE CURRENTLY MEDIUM AND HEAVY AUTOMATICALLY GO SCP LIGHT IS MORE THAT BY, RIGHT. YEAH. AND THAT IS WHAT WE SEE HERE. UM, AND THEN THE I ONE IS LESS INTENSIVE THAN THE I TWO. RIGHT? WELL THERE'S NO HEAVY IN I ONE WE HAVE SIGNS AGAIN. YES. . THAT'S JUST SAYING THAT THEY CAN GET THE SIGN PERMIT. THE, WELL AT LEAST, AT LEAST IT REFERENCES THE SIGN. WELL AT LEAST IT REFERENCES ARTICLE. YEAH. RIGHT. THE OTHER ONE IT JUST MEANS, YEAH, YOU CAN PUT YOUR SIGNS UP, BUT IT'S STILL PER, AND THAT CASE SHOULD BE COPY PASTE THAT BACK AND ADD THAT SET FOUR. ADD SET FOUR. YEAH. I MEAN, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD WANT OR NEED IN THE MCD REQUIRED ANYWAY? YEAH. IT SEEMS REDUNDANT TO HAVE IT AS, AS I SAID EARLIER, WITH SIGNS IT'S EITHER EXEMPT OR YOU NEED A PERMIT. RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. SO I MEAN, I'LL JUST MARK THIS AND IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE GONNA CIRCLE BACK TO THIS OVERALL. SO I'M NOT TRYING TO, I DON'T WANNA FORGET WHAT WE'RE DOING. UM, CAN YOU, UM, SO THE ONLY THING I I WANT US TO NOT ENCOURAGE US TO LOOK AT IS THIS STATEMENT OF INTENT. IT'S, WELL, THE, THE FOLLOWING PERFORMANCE STANDARDS AND DOWN, SO THREE 17 TO 3 24, THAT'S NOT AS A STATEMENT OF INTENT THAT THE BEGINNING OF THE LAW THAT WE'RE, THAT WOULD BE PUT FORWARD. I DON'T FEEL LIKE THIS IS THE RIGHT SPOT FOR IT. AND TO HAVE JUST, HEY, THIS IS WHAT THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT IS DESIGNED TO DO. YOU KNOW, I COULD WRITE CONTROLS. YOU KNOW, IT JUST HIT ME THAT THIS IS, THIS IS SO DIFFERENT THAN EVERY SINGLE OTHER STATEMENT OF INTENT IN TERMS OF DESIGN. IF THAT MAKES SENSE. MM-HMM . PERHAPS IT'S BEST JUST TO REJECT THIS FOR NOW AND WE'LL COME BACK TO IT. I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW. THE THING IS, I LIKE THAT IT'S MORE DETAILED THAN THIS. RIGHT. AND I THINK THAT THAT MAKES SENSE. BUT I THINK THAT THIS COULD ALMOST BE COMBINED. SO TELL YOU WHAT, LET ME TAKE A LOOK AT IT , UM, AND TRY TO THINK OF A WAY TO COMBINE THESE WORDINGS. 'CAUSE I THINK THAT, BUT THIS IS HOW YOU GUYS KIND OF SUPPLEMENT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, RIGHT? LIKE THAT'S NOT LIKE WE DON'T GO OUT AND ELICIT DEVELOPMENT TO COME HERE, BUT OUR CODE CAN CERTAINLY PROHIBIT CORRECT. DEVELOPMENT COMING PROHIBIT OR ENABLE. ENABLE, RIGHT? AND SO IF THE GOAL IS LET'S KIND OF HELP SPUR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, UM, EMPLOYMENT, THEN THESE ZONES ESPECIALLY ARE WHERE YOU WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE, THAT WAS KIND OF WHERE GOING IS TO TRY TO TRY TO BRING THIS, BRING MORE IN SPECIFICITY CAN BE REALLY GOOD. UM, WE JUST, OKAY. YEAH. I'LL, I'LL TRY TO SEND SOMETHING OUT, UM, OF JUST AN IDEA FOR THE STATEMENT OF INTENT TO SORT OF COMBINE THESE THINGS. 'CAUSE I THINK THERE'S PARTS OF THE ORIGINAL THAT ARE GOOD. OKAY. UM, AND, AND SHOULD WE, SHOULD WE BE THINKING TOO ABOUT WHAT REALISTICALLY IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO ACRE AVERAGES, EXCUSE ME, AND ONLY 15 UNDEVELOPED, LOTS OF TWO ACRE AVERAGES, MOST OF 'EM IN THE FLOODPLAIN, THE, THE IMPACT OF HOW, WHAT'S GONNA BE INSURABLE? IS IT GONNA BE HEAVY OR IS IT GONNA BE YOU CAN STILL HAVE REDEVELOPMENT TOO. I MEAN, WE'RE NOT SAYING WE'RE GONNA TRY TO JUST CATER TO THESE END LOTS WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT A DISTRICT. YOU ALWAYS [01:35:01] WANNA BE ABLE TO ENCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT. SURE. UM, NOBODY, IT'S WEIRD. IT'S WEIRD THAT OUR INDUSTRIAL, MOST OF IT IS IN THE FLOOD PLAIN AND LIKE, I DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT EVEN A HUNDRED OR 200 YEARS BECAUSE THAT CREEK WAS APPLICABLE. SO IT'S ODD TO ME THAT IT WAS THERE. YOU SEE THAT'S SOME TYPE OF STORAGE. YEAH. SO YOU, YOU HAVE WAYS TO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE STORING STUFF. IT'S AN INDUSTRIAL IS IS STORING WHERE YOU'RE NOT THE, THE TYPE OF BUILDINGS THAT ARE BUILT THERE OR, UH, LESS LIKELY TO, YOU KNOW, IF THEY DO GET WATER IN THEM, THE WATER'S DESIGNED TO GO IN AND OUT. YEAH. JUST LIKE THE FLOOD FENCE IN YEAH. STRUCTURES. THEY BIGGER THEIR DOORS ACTING AS FLOOD FENCE AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND STUFF IS, IT'S NOT MA THE MATERIAL'S NOT MADE IS MANUFACTURED WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD RESIST ROT IN THE MILL DOING EVERYTHING ELSE. 'CAUSE YOU LOSE OUT METAL OR BRICK AND WHATNOT. IT'S NOT LIKE A A WOOD FRAME STRUCTURE. SO THE GROUND FLOOR WOULD BASICALLY BE, WOULD BE A, A PASS THROUGH FOR WATER. OH YEAH. CONCRETE FLOOR. IF YOU HAVE METAL, METAL SIGNS OR BRICK OR WHATEVER, WHICH IS, IS ENCOURAGED IN THE FLOODPLAIN TO BUILD ON. SO, SO ANY SERIOUS STUFF IS GONNA BE UPSTAIRS. SO DO WE NEED TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT? IT'S, IT IS NOT ABOUT THAT. IT'S THAT THAT'S NOT STANDARD THEY HAVE TO BUILD TOO. IT'S YEAH, THERE'S, UM, YEAH, THERE THERE'S GONNA BE THOSE STANDARDS WHICH, YOU KNOW, ALREADY ARE IN PLACE. BUT THEN PART OF THE REASON WHY THESE AREAS ARE I ONE IS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PROPER. YOU CAN'T USE THEM FOR THINGS LIKE RESIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL WHERE IT'D BE DESTRUCTIVE TO HAVE THEM OR JUST IT WOULDN'T BE. BUT YOU ALSO DON'T WANT ANYTHING THAT'S GONNA POLLUTE THE WATER. SO LIKE WE HAVE TOO, YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE DIRTY. RIGHT. WHICH IS WHY I THINK THE I ONE, UH, HAS ONLY LIGHT AND MEDIUM, EVEN THOUGH MEDIUM GETS PRETTY TOUCHY AT TIMES. BUT MEDIUM'S ONLY SPECIAL USE, WHICH MEANS IT WOULDN'T GO TO THE FLOOD PLAN ANYWAY. BUT LIKE THINGS LIKE STORAGE COULD BE FOOTWEAR. YEAH. MM-HMM . WHICH IS PROBABLY WHY THERE WERE COMMUTER PARKING LOTS. YEAH. ORIGINALLY IN THERE. WE DON'T CARE. THEY, THE, THE PROBLEM THERE IS THAT IT CARS ALLEY ALL NON THE WATER WILL MOVE IT FOR YOU. . PERFECT. THERE WE GO. JUST NOW THAT WE HAVE THE DISCUSSION, BASED ON WHAT GEORGE SAID, , THE LAST PART OF THIS, THE FOLLOWING PERFORMANCE SHOW APPLY WITHIN ANY ITEM. MM-HMM . THAT LAST THING, JUST THE TIERS AND STUFF. JUST TAKE THAT OUT. THAT'S JUST GONNA CAUSE CONFUSION. DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT UH, DEFINITIONS OF WHAT THE INDUSTRIALIZED I THINK THAT WILL AND, AND LEAVE THE TOP PART OF IT. I I AND THEN IF WE FORMAT IT TO DO THAT, AND THEN IF YOU WANNA COME BACK TO THESE ZONES, LIKE IF WE'RE GONNA DO, DO INDUSTRIAL IN THE NEXT WORK SESSION TWO, KEEP IN MIND THE I TWO, WE ONLY HAVE VERY, WE HAVE VERY FEW PARCELS. THE OTHER WRAP SHEETS. YEAH. AND THEN THIS MAP, UM, WHAT I HAD OUR UH, WHAT HAD SEAN DO IS KIND OF TRY TO WORK IN WHAT THE BUILDABLE AREA OF, BECAUSE THIS IS REALLY THE DEVELOPABLE I TWO, WE HAVE WHAT THAT BUILDING ENVELOPE WOULD REALLY LOOK LIKE MM-HMM . WITH THE CURRENT SETBACK FROM THE BUFFERS. THAT WAS JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT'S OUR USABLE I TWO IN TOWN CURRENTLY AND I TOO IS THE ONLY SPOT THAT ALLOWABLE FOR DATA CENTERS AS WELL. RIGHT. IF WELL, RIGHT NOW, UNLESS SOMETHING GETS REZONED. RIGHT. BUT, UM, THAT HASN'T PASSED. THAT'S JUST SITTING IN YEAH. PASSED PLANNING COMMISSION. BUT IT'S KIND OF THE LIMBO COUNCIL MM-HMM . UM, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S AN INFORMAL COMMENT. YES. . IT'S ME SAYING IT'S IN LIMBO. IT'S A FORMAL COMMENT. WELL, YES. OKAY. UM, WELL I APPRECIATE THESE MAPS. NO, THIS IS, I DO APPRECIATE THAT TOO. OKAY. SO I HAVE A HUNCH JUDGING BY EVERYBODY, WE'RE ABOUT DONE FOR THE NIGHT IS WHAT I'M GLAD YOU PURSUE THAT AS FAR AS WE GOT ON THAT. AND WE'LL GO BACK AND BASED ON THIS, THIS IS GOOD. BUT THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO DO THIS AS A GROUP AS OPPOSED TO AN INDIVIDUAL EFFORT. YES. INDIVIDUAL GIVING YOU THE DATA ON THE YEAH. OKAY. OH, ABSOLUTELY. AND, UH, HELPS. WHICH HELPS THE MOST. GETTING, GETTING THAT HELPS A LOT BECAUSE EVEN WHEN WE DOING THE DATA CENTER STUFF, ONCE WE HAD THE DISCUSSIONS, THAT HELPS IMMENSELY. I DON'T KNOW WHEN [01:40:01] TAKING THAT. I HAVEN'T TAKEN ANY ACTION AUTO SAVED. OKAY. I WAS WONDERING, I CANNOT FIND A SAVE BUTTON ANYWHERE. OH YEAH. JUST AUTO DO. WHICH I, I'M GLAD FOR. I WAS JUST NEEDED TO CONFIRM THAT . SO LET'S, UH, YOUR HONOR, SAVE. DO THE MICKEY MOUSE SIGN OFF? ? UH, DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? I MOVE. WE ADJOURN. I SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. AYE. AYE. WE ADJOURN. ALRIGHT. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.