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[Board of Architectural Review on December 9, 2025.]
LIKE TO CALL THE ORDER, UH, BOARD OF MARKETS TO REVIEW FOR TUESDAY, DECEMBER 9TH, 2025.CAN WE GET A ROLL CALL FROM YOU? CHAIRMAN WATERS HERE.
UM, FOR THOSE ME AND YOU,
WHAT'S THE MATTER? TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR THE LAST ONE.
SO WE REALLY CAN'T BECAUSE YEAH, WE HAVE TO BE THREE.
SO WE MAY JUST HAVE TO RETROACTIVELY BRING DEWEY BACK FOR ONE MORE.
I'LL CHECK WITH THE, HE HAS A REAL PHONE.
DO YOU WANT ME TO CALL HIM NOW?
HE ACTUALLY HAS A COMMUNICATION METHOD.
ALRIGHT, SO WE'LL TABLE THAT, UH, APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FOR THE OCTOBER 14TH MEETING AND MOVE ON TO NEW BUSINESS.
SO WE'VE GOT, UH, NEW APPLICATION 5 3 1 FOR ELLA MORRIS PLACED A 288 SQUARE FOOT WOOD DIP TRACKS.
HAVE YOU GUYS HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE PACKET? OKAY, DANIEL, ANYTHING? NO, IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
THE, UH, THE RAMP WAS DONE BY THE PREVIOUS OWNER AND IS CORRECT THAT MATCHES, UH, THE CONTRACTOR CAME IN AND TALKED TO JOHN ABOUT PAINTING THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING, WHICH SAME COLOR.
DIDN'T HAVE TO DO ANY KIND OF PERMIT FOR THAT.
UM, AT SOME POINT THEY STARTED WORK ON THE DECK AROUND, BACK ON THE ALLEY SIDE, AND THE COUNTY WENT BY AND DID A STOP WORK ORDER, MADE A REFERRAL TO US, AND THAT'S HOW WE GOT HERE.
UM, SO IN TALKING WITH THE CONTRACTOR, IT SEEMS AS THOUGH, BECAUSE THE RAMP WAS DONE PREVIOUSLY BY THE PREVIOUS OWNER IN TRAX, THEY WERE DOING THE DECK TO MATCH AND WE'RE UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT WAS APPROVED, PERMITTED, AND APPROVED.
SO WE'D JUST MATCH IT AND IT WOULD BE ALL RIGHT.
UH, STILL WOULD'VE NEEDED THE ZONING PERMIT, OBVIOUSLY, BUT, UM, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE ARE WITH THAT.
SO JUST THE TOP BOARDS WILL BE TRACKS.
UH, THE, THE RAMP AGAIN THOUGH IS, UH, WAS, WAS DONE BY THE PREVIOUS ERROR, BUT IT NEEDS TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE APPROVAL.
OF COURSE, ON THE BACKSIDE IT'S NOT SEEN FROM THE STREET THAT SORT, SO, AND, AND WORK HAS STOPPED.
SO THIS IS GETTING A WOOD RAILING AND YES.
SO THEY INCLUDED THAT THEY WERE SEEKING APPROVAL OF THE EXISTING RAMP.
DOES THAT MEAN THEY DID NOT GET FROM APPROVED? CORRECT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS? I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S ROUND BACK OF THE BUILDING, UH, SITE.
IT'S NOT JUST ONE QUESTION I HAVE WAS JUST IN GENERAL ON, ON TRACKS AS MATERIAL.
IS THERE, IS THERE A GENERAL SENSE THAT COLOR MATTERS? YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT THERE ARE MORE AND LESS HISTORIC LOOKING COLORS? WE CAN'T, AS A, THE BOARD CAN'T REALLY COMMENT ON COLOR CHOICE PER SE.
I MEAN, WE TRY AND PERSUADE PEOPLE TO MATCH A CERTAIN, A, YOU KNOW, CAN'T EVEN REALLY SAY AESTHETIC, BUT YOU'RE TRYING TO MATCH A STYLE THAT IS HARMONIOUS WITH THE BUILDINGS ON EITHER SIDE.
YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT A BRIGHT PINK BUILDING NEXT TO, YOU KNOW, A WHITE BUILDING OR WHATEVER IT, UM, SO A COLOR? NOT NECESSARILY.
YOU KNOW, WE WANT IT TO, IF THIS WAS ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING AND IT WAS AN ALL BEAUTIFUL OLD HISTORIC PORCH, YOU KNOW, AND SOMEBODY PUT BRICKS ON IT AND THE, THE THICKNESS WAS WAY OFF AND IT DIDN'T HAVE TEXTURE AND IT JUST LOOKED OUT OF PLACE, I THINK THAT WOULD BE MORE OF A, A PROBLEM, YOU KNOW? BUT IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE, IT'S A NEW DECK.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, A ROUND BACK AND IT'S NOT PERMANENT TO THE BUILDING.
SO IT CAN BE EASILY CHANGED IN THE FUTURE.
THAT'S ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT TO REMEMBER.
UM, WE ASSESS THESE THINGS, BUT, OKAY.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? MM-HMM
UM, ANY OTHER, NOW THAT I LOOKED AT IT, I HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? NO, I'M, I KIND OF LIKE CHRIS.
YEAH, I MEAN, LONGEVITY WISE, THAT'S, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT EVERY ELEMENT ON MY HOUSE, UH, BECAUSE I GOT THE TRACKS IN THE FRONT AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHEN THEY'RE FROM YEAH,
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THEY LOOK GOOD.BUT
YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST MAKING IT LOOK RIGHT.
UH, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE AT ALL WITH THIS.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
2 5 0 0 5 3 1, WOULD YOU SAY? OH, 5 3 1
UM, AS PRESENTED TO THE BAR TONIGHT.
I'M ASSUMING THERE'S A BUILDING OWNER.
SO WHEN I WENT AROUND TO THE BACK OF THAT BUILDING, I WAS REALLY SURPRISED.
I'VE NEVER LOOKED AT IT FROM BEHIND.
WAS THE FRONT, LIKE A BIG PORCH THAT WAS CLOSED IN AT SOME POINT IN TIME.
DO YOU KNOW? I'M NOT SURE ACTUALLY.
THE, THE, THE MATERIALS WE GOT FROM THE TOWN ACTUALLY GAVE ME SOME ADDITIONAL DETAILS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE BUILDING THAT I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT.
YOU KNOW, WHEN THE PORCH WAS ADDED, WE KNEW IT HAD BEEN MOVED FROM A DIFFERENT SITE OVER TO WHERE IT IS CURRENTLY.
UM, YEAH, MY UNDERSTANDING, BASED ON WHAT I KNOW AND, AND KIND OF INFORMED BY WHAT'S HERE, IS THAT THE PORCH YEAH.
WAS KIND OF A LATER, THE PORTICO WAS A LATER ADDITION AND WAS NEVER ENCLOSED.
BUT THAT'S, I THINK OUR, THE MAIN, MAIN THING WE LIKE ABOUT THE BUILDING.
SO YEAH, I WALKED AROUND BACK, I'M LIKE, WHOA, THAT'S WOOD
IT DOESN'T LOOK, SOMETHING'S HAPPENED HERE.
I'M GLAD YOU'RE TAKING CARE OF IT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS I CAN ANSWER
UH, THE ONLY OTHER THING IS THE HISTORIC, THE DRAFT OR TO GO OVER THE DRAFT.
HAS EVERYBODY HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK? 'CAUSE I GAVE JOHN TWO PERMITS WHEN I YEAH.
SO WHEN WE MET WITH TWO NEW MEMBERS, GAVE THEM A COPY SO THAT THEY COULD GO OVER AND BE AWARE PRIOR TO THE MEETING.
UM, SO YEAH, WHATEVER Y'ALL WANNA TALK ABOUT.
WANNA CHANGE IT? WELL, POSITIVES AND NEGATIVES NOW THAT WE HAVE THE NEW MEMBERS HERE.
I THINK WE DE AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS EARLIER, WE KIND OF NEED TO COME UP WITH A GAME PLAN TO REVIEW THIS THING RIGHT IN THE RIGHT WAY.
SO I BROUGHT IT UP AT THE LAST MEETING.
I WANT THE GUIDELINES TO BE VERY CLEAR TO THE LAYMAN.
YOU KNOW, I WANT THEM TO BE, I DON'T WANT IT TO BE OVERLY VERBOSE.
I WANT IT TO BE, THIS IS, THESE ARE THE KIND OF THE RULES TO FOLLOW.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE MORE INFORMATION, HERE'S THIS OTHER DOCUMENT THAT WOULD, EACH CHAPTER OF THE GUIDELINES, WE WOULD SUPPLEMENT WITH MORE DETAIL AND REFERENCES AND RESOURCES.
AND I THINK THAT'S A BETTER WAY TO DO IT.
SPLIT IT UP QUICK VERSION, ALL THE RULES, SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION.
AND IF WE GO THROUGH EACH CHAPTER AND DISCUSS EACH CHAPTER, HIGHLIGHT AREAS WHERE WE THINK WE NEED MORE DETAIL, REFINE THE BASE DOCUMENT AS WE GO.
AND AT THE END OF THAT PROCESS, WE WILL HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S PRESENTABLE.
YOU KNOW, WE WORK ON ONE OR TWO CHAPTERS NOW UNTIL SUMMERTIME.
WE'LL BE IN A PRETTY GOOD PLACE.
THE OTHER PART OF THAT IS WE NEED TO MAKE IT LOOK GOOD.
SO THE, THE LANGUAGE, WE'RE FORTUNATE TO HAVE DEI BECAUSE SHE SPECIALIZES IN LANGUAGE SPECIFICATION, LANGUAGE
AND WE WANT THE, WE WANT THIS DOCUMENT TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, NOT BE TOTALLY LEGALESE, BUT WE WANT IT TO BE VERY PRECISE SO THERE'S NO CONFUSION ON WHAT RULES ARE.
WELL, AND AS IT WAS EXPLAINING TO COLIN ABOUT MY BACKGROUND, UM, WHICH IS TO REVIEW DRAWINGS AND SPECIFICATIONS FOR WORDS THAT ARE NOT DEFENDABLE IN COURT.
LIKE OR EQUAL, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? RIGHT.
LIKE, AS REQUIRED, BUT, YOU KNOW.
SO, SO I, I WOULD LOVE TO GO THROUGH A CHAPTER AT A TIME JUST WITH THAT VIEWPOINT AND NOT NECESSARILY CONTENT AND THEN WEIGH IN WITH YOU ALL AND CONTENT.
I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE SHOULD COME FIRST.
IT PROBABLY CAN COME SIMULTANEOUSLY.
'CAUSE PEOPLE ARE ADDING STUFF.
YOU HAD MENTIONED MAYBE A SHARED DOCUMENT.
DID WE EVER SET THAT UP? WE HAVE NOT.
WE'RE STILL TRYING TO WORK ON THAT WITH IT.
UM, 'CAUSE PLANNING COMMISSION'S TRYING TO DO
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THE SAME THING AND WE JUST HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT YET.CAN WE LIKE FIRE UNDER THAT SOMEHOW? I MEAN, I CAN START A GOOGLE DOCUMENT, BUT I, AND JUST INCLUDE EVERYBODY.
I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE A GOOGLE ACCOUNT, BUT I'LL JUST SET ONE UP.
LAUREN WILL BE BACK IN THE OFFICE THURSDAY, SO LET ME, LET ME GET WITH HER.
BECAUSE THIS PROCESS WILL BE A WHOLE LOT EASIER.
EVERYBODY PUT, IF WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS AND OUR AIR TIME
WE GOTTA BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT WE'RE DOING.
OR WE'RE JUST GONNA SPIN OUR WHEELS FOREVER.
SO DEE'S GONNA TAKE THE RINGS ON THE FINAL LANGUAGE.
TO DO THAT COLLECTIVELY, WE'RE GONNA ADD AND SUBTRACT CONTENT.
I THINK YOU WOULD BE GOOD TO SOURCE NEW PHOTOGRAPHS YEAH.
AND DEVISE A LAYOUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, AESTHETICALLY PLEASING.
I CAN HELP YOU WITH THAT IF YOU'D LIKE.
I'M REALLY GREAT TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS.
I DON'T KNOW HOW WELL I WILL MANEUVER A DOCUMENT.
GRAPHIC DESIGNER, GRAPHIC DESIGNER.
DO YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO LOOK AT TON'S GUIDELINES? I HAVE NOT.
UM, IT'S PRETTY TO LOOK AT IF YOU, EVEN IF YOU DON'T READ THE WORDS.
IT'S OVERWHELMING FOR SOMEBODY THAT'S LIKE, HOLY CRAP, I JUST WANT TO PUT A DECK ON MY HOUSE.
SO THAT'S WHY I, I WANNA SEPARATE THINGS.
I MEAN THAT MAKES SOMEBODY WHO'S IN THE OFFICE EVERY DAY WHERE THE APPLICANTS COME IN.
FOR INSTANCE, THE GUY THAT, THE CONTRACTOR THAT CAME FOR THE DECK AND YOU HAND HIM THE THICK MM-HMM
HISTORIC GUIDELINES WITH THE CHECKLIST AND ALL THAT STUFF.
AND HE'S LIKE, OH YEAH, I GOTTA READ THROUGH ALL THIS.
IS THAT, IS THIS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? CORRECT.
I THINK IF WE CAN GET THAT DOWN TO, UM, 10 OR 12 PAGES MAYBE.
AND THEN PLUG OUT AS MUCH DETAIL MINUTIAE STUFF INTO SOMETHING ELSE, THAT WOULD BE GOOD.
BUT, SO YOU HAVE 14, UH, CHAPTERS.
DEPENDS ON THE PICTURES IN THE SIZE.
BUT THE NICE THING IS THAT PEOPLE CAN SEE JUST FROM THE TABLE OF CONTENT WHERE THEY NEED TO GO TO LOOK AND SEE WHERE THEIR PROJECT FITS IN.
WELL THIS IS 18, BUT I THINK THAT THE LAYOUT COULD, YEAH.
WELL A LOT OF PEOPLE GO TO THE WEBSITE FIRST.
UM, SO THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S EASIER TO PULL PDF WITH YEAH.
PICTURES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND I'M WONDERING COULD IT BE SOMETHING THAT IS QR DRIVEN AS WELL, WHERE YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE TO GIVE OUT SO MUCH PAPER? THAT'S A GREAT IDEA.
UM, AND, UM, WITH, UH, CONTENT, TABLE CONTENT AND THEN THEY CAN GO TO EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR AND GRAB IT QUICKLY AND EASILY AND FROM YOUR FACE ELECTRONICALLY.
UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALWAYS THE ONES THAT, THAT ARE NOT GOING TO GO TO ELECTRONICS AND YOU NEED SOMETHING LIKE THIS, BUT RIGHT.
MOST OF US ARE, UM, BUSY PEOPLE WHEN WE WANT IT IN FRONT OF OUR COMPUTER OR OUR PHONE AND MM-HMM
SO, AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE, UM, I WAS A REALTOR FOR A WHILE AND REALLY MM-HMM
AND SO, UM, I THINK YOU WILL MAIL COPY ALL THE REALTORS.
I, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT, NOT ONLY THAT, BUT I THINK A GREAT IDEA WOULD BE TO, UM, HAVE SOMEONE, AND I WOULD VOLUNTEER FOR THIS ONCE I REGURGE
AND WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT IT? AND UM, THEY SAY THEY DON'T.
BUT I'M GONNA TELL YOU, I WAS A TOP PRODUCER AND I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT THIS UNTIL MUCH LATER IN MY LIFE.
SO FROM A ZONING STANDPOINT, THEY JUST, THERE, THERE ARE SOME THAT DON'T CARE.
YOU CAN DO ANYTHING WITH THIS PROPERTY IF IT GETS YOU SIDE OF THE DOTTED LINE.
WE RUN INTO THAT ALL THE TIME.
THERE'S, THEY TOLD ME I COULD AND THEN THEY COME INTO US AND IT'S LIKE, NO, CAN'T NEVER BAKERY YOU GUYS UP FOR HELL THERE.
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FOR SURE.IT'S CALLED NOT DOING YOUR HOMEWORK.
SO WOULD YOU LIKE TO, HOW DO YOU WANT TO DO IT? YOU WANNA DO A WE DO A CHAPTER OF A MEETING OR, I THINK THAT WAS IT.
WE CAN GET THROUGH A, A SECTION A MEETING.
THAT'S A, SO IS THERE A LIVE DOCUMENT THAT AS WE'RE DISCUSSING IT, THERE ISN'T YET.
CONNIE'S GONNA HOPEFULLY HAVE THAT.
SO YOU'RE JUST GONNA TAKE, AND ALSO WHAT WE'VE STARTED DOING AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING IS WE'RE BRINGING IN THE WORD DOCUMENT UP ON HERE AND WE CAN ACTUALLY TYPE IN IT AS WE'RE TALKING AND WANT MAKE CHANGES AND WE CAN MAKE NOTES OFF TO THE SIDE.
IN THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO, WE MIGHT HAVE A LIVE DOCUMENT THAT WE CAN ALL SWITCH BACK.
SO IF WE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU OR NOT, BUT WE COULD JUST START WITH AN INTRODUCTION.
CAN I ALSO, I MEAN, LIKE, I, I THINK I SENT TO YOU THAT MY, THE, THE TWO THINGS THAT I HAD QUESTIONS ON AND THE WHOLE THING WERE ROOF COLOR MM-HMM
BECAUSE I JUST DID A SHINY STAND, SEA ROOF.
UM, AND, AND THEN JUST A PROVISIONS FOR AWNINGS.
SO I, I ACTUALLY JUST BROUGHT THREE PAGES, WHICH VIOLATES YOUR PRECISENESS RULE, BUT, BUT, BUT THREE PAGES OF JUST WHAT IS AN AWNING, WHY WERE THEY THERE, YOU KNOW, WHAT SHOULD THEY LOOK LIKE, WHEN WERE THEY ALUMINUM AND WHEN WERE THEY CAMPUS? WHEN WERE THEY, YOU KNOW.
SO YOUR ROOF IS CHAPTER TWO AND YOUR AWNING WOULD BE IN CHAPTER FOUR,
CHAPTER BY CHAPTER YOU WERE SAYING.
BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, I DON'T, I DON'T REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY IF AWNINGS ARE MENTIONED IN THERE AND THEY SHOULD BE.
I AT LEAST SEARCH FOR THE WORD AWNING.
AND AS WE GO, HOPEFULLY MORE STUFF LIKE THAT WILL JUDGE POP INTO OUR MINDS.
MAYBE WE WANNA ADD A CHAPTER FOR AWNINGS.
I DON'T KNOW HOW PREVALENT THEY'RE IN THE TOWN.
ARE THEY? UM, I MEAN REALLY, I THINK WHEN I'VE SEEN 'EM IN THE, IN OTHER GUIDELINES THEY'RE USUALLY, THEY FALL UNDER SIGNS FOR SOME REASON.
YOU KNOW, CANVAS? ARE YOU TALKING CANVAS AWNINGS? YEAH.
AWNINGS ARE SOMEHOW INTERTWINED WITH SIGNS.
NOT, NOT SOMETHING THAT'S PERMANENT.
IT'S LIKE STOREFRONTS, YOU KNOW? RIGHT.
YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE AWNINGS USED TO BE.
AND AREN'T THERE ANYMORE? I NOTHING EVEN HAVE A SECTION ON SCHOOL FRONTS.
I MEAN, I KNOW WE'VE ISSUED PERMITS FOR AWNINGS HERE ON MAIN STREET IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS WHEN WE WERE, YOU KNOW, BUT IT'S LIKE, THINK ABOUT ALL THESE BUILDINGS ON MAIN STREET THAT HAVE BEEN RETROFITTED WITH THESE, YOU KNOW, AWFUL ALUMINUM AND GLASS STOREFRONT THINGS THAT SOME, SO YEAH, MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE MIGHT HAD PAGE 15
SO THAT'S ACTUALLY A REALLY GOOD POINT.
WE'RE DOING IT YOUR WAY THOUGH.
I MEAN,
IS THAT, IS THAT KIND OF RARE? DOES THAT HAPPEN? NOT REALLY.
I CAN'T GIVE YOU A NUMBER, BUT YEAH, WE'VE, AND WE JUST WENT THROUGH THE, I CAN'T THINK ANYTHING OF A GRANT, THE CDVG GRANT MONEY THAT, THAT A LOT OF THE STORES DID DO UPDATES, LIKE THE THEATER WITH THE MARQUEE AND MM-HMM
UM, LIKE I SAID, A LOT OF THE AWNINGS ON THIS SIDE OF THE STREET WAS DURING THAT TIME THE PAINTING OF BUILDINGS AND THE MURALS AND SO THERE THAT, THAT WAS OH, UH, LIKE I SAID, LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS.
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INTRO.SO THE POINT OF THE INTRODUCTION IS WHY DO WE EXIST? WHY ARE YOU GONNA TAKE TROUBLE TO READ THIS DOCUMENT? WHY SHOULD YOU CARE? WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO MAINTAIN AND PRESERVE YOUR HISTORIC BUILDING? THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET ACROSS.
IN A COUPLE OF SENTENCES, I'LL JUST READ THE HISTORIC OVERLAY.
DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE A SUPPLEMENTARY SET OF STANDARDS TO THOSE OUTLINED IN THE TOWN CODE.
THEY'RE USED BY THE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW IN EVALUATING REQUESTS FOR DEMOLITION, NEW CONSTRUCTION, MAJOR RENOVATIONS AND SIGNAGE IN THE FRONT ROYAL STORAGE DISTRICT.
CAN I COMMENT ON A WORD IN THERE? SURE.
LIKE WHAT IS AGE? SHOULD WE DO THAT NOW? WOULD JUST SAY RENOVATION.
WHAT, WHERE DOES, WHERE DOES THE REPAIR DIFFER FROM A RENOVATION? DO REPAIR, DOES REPAIR WORK? I MEAN, SAY A CAR DRIVES INTO A STORE FROM, WAS THAT JUST ON THE NEWS? UM, IS THAT, THAT'S MAJOR REPAIR.
DOES THAT HAVE TO COME THEN I GUESS BEFORE THE BOARD IF THEY'RE, I THINK WE SHOULD INCLUDE THE WORD REPAIRS.
YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT THINGS BECAUSE REPAIRS, IF YOU'RE GONNA TRY AND WORK ON, LIKE SAY SOMEBODY CRASHES INTO YOUR BEAUTIFUL HISTORIC FRONT PORCH.
AND THEN YOU TRY AND SLAM A BUNCH OF TRICKS INTO IT IN THE SPACE THAT'S DAMAGED AND NOT THE SURROUNDING AREA.
IT'S LIKE, IS IT REPAIR? YEAH.
SO INSTEAD OF MAJOR RENOVATIONS, JUST REPAIR REPAIRS AND SIGNAGE, RENOVATIONS, REPAIRS.
WE COULD EXPAND ON THAT SENTENCE TO INCLUDE EVERY CHAPTER IF WE WANT, BUT IT'S KIND OF A BROAD STROKE.
SO THEN WHY WOULD YOU INCLUDE SIGNAGE? 'CAUSE THAT WOULD FALL UNDER OKAY.
THAT FALL UNDER, I GUESS THAT WOULDN'T FALL UNDER CONSTRUCTION OR RENOVATION OR REPAIR.
WELL YOU STILL GET A-C-C-O-A FOR SIGNAGE.
I THINK SIGNAGE IS ONE OF THE MORE PREVALENT, YOU KNOW, CASES FOR COMING TO THE BAR.
KIND OF ITS OWN THING, ISN'T IT? YEAH, IT IS.
IT'S SAD THAT IT IS, BUT IT'S
ESPECIALLY IN THIS TOWN, THEY DEAL WITH IT EVERY DAY.
THESE GUIDELINES ARE INTENDED TO ASSIST PROPERTY OWNERS, BUSINESS OWNERS, CONTRACTORS, DEVELOPERS AND CITIZENS IN MAKING DECISIONS THAT WILL AFFECT THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT.
THEY ALSO PROVIDE A FRAMEWORK FOR THE BAR TO APPLY CONSISTENT STANDARDS WHEN REVIEWING APPLICATIONS FOR CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS.
WANT TO ADD REALTORS TO THAT LESSON? WHAT'S A BUSINESS OWNER? YEAH.
WELL, I I I MIGHT WANT TO ADD REALTORS FOR ABOUT THE SAME REASON WE EDIT SIGNAGE, WHICH IS IT'S, THEY HAVE A BIG IMPACT.
THEY MAKE DECISIONS THAT AFFECT THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT AND THEY, IT'S A FAIR POINT.
AND LIKE YOU SAID, I MEAN THEY SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED AS THEIR OWN ENTITY MAYBE BECAUSE THEY HAVE AND SAME WITH USING THE TERM DEVELOPERS IN THERE.
I KIND OF, UM, PROGRESS A LITTLE BIT THAT IT IS THE REALTOR CAN LEAD YOU AND TELL YOU THINGS, BUT IT IS THE OWNER'S RESPONSIBILITY WHEN SIGNING.
BUT I, I, I WANT TO ASSIST THE REALTORS AND IF, AND I WOULD WANT THEM TO KNOW THAT I WANT THAT
SO YOU THINK PUTTING REALTORS IN THERE IS TELLING THEM THAT WE'RE, WE'RE HERE TO ASSIST YOU? I MEAN, I'M, I'M OKAY EITHER WAY.
I JUST SEE IT AS IT IS A GOOD POINT THOUGH.
'CAUSE WE AREN'T REALLY HERE TO ASSIST REALTORS.
WE'RE HERE TO, FOR THE OWNERS AND OF THESE BUILDINGS.
WELL, FOR, FOR THE TOWN TO KEEP IT LIKE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE.
I THINK INCLUDING IT, IT FITS, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO COVER ALL THE BASES AND IF WE CAN EDUCATE REALTORS AND THEN THEY IN TURN CAN EDUCATE THEIR CLIENTS.
AND THEN THEY IN TURN HAVE A LESS OF A HARD TIME AND THEIR HOME OWNERSHIP, THEN IT'S A OKAY.
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SAYING REAL ESTATE AGENTS.BECAUSE THAT IS A, UM, A DESTINATION INSTEAD OF A YOU.
THE BAR WAS CREATED SAFEGUARD THE HERITAGE OF FRONT ROYAL BY PRESERVING BUILDINGS, NEIGHBORHOODS, AND PLACES OF HISTORIC AND ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE.
ITS GOAL IS TO ENSURE THAT CHANGES WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT ENHANCE RATHER THAN DIMINISH ITS UNIQUE CHARACTER.
SO DOES IT ADD ANYTHING TO SAY HOW THE BAR WAS CREATED? IS IT CREATED BY A TOWN CODES IN THERE? IT'S THE NEXT PARAGRAPH.
OH, IT'S ALREADY IN LEGAL FRAMEWORK.
I I REALLY LIKE THE LANGUAGE IN THAT PARAGRAPH.
SO
AUTHORITY AND LEGAL FRAMEWORK, AUTHORITY, GARAGE, TOWN CODE, YADA, YADA, YADA, CONSISTENT, YADA YADA.
THESE GUIDELINES ARE USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE TOWN'S ZONING ORDINANCE, APPLICABLE BUILDING CODES.
DO WE NEED TO ADD ANYTHING TO THAT AUTHORITY AND LEGAL FRAMEWORK? CAN I JUMP BACK UP TO LINE 16? THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
SO, OR THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT THAT TERM IS INTRODUCED.
WE NEED TO, I MEAN, SOMEBODY CAN SAY, WELL, WHAT THE HECK IS THAT? IT MIGHT BE GOOD TO PUT A UM, YEAH.
YOU COULD SAY YOU HAVE ALL THE WORDS THAT WE'RE USING SO THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YEAH.
WELL I FEEL LIKE THAT'S THE PART WHERE YOU'RE, YOU'RE JUST, YOU'RE NAME CHECKING WHAT WHAT CONTEXT AM I GOING TO BE IN? YOU KNOW, AND, AND MAYBE IT IS PREMATURE TO SAY CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT SAYS WELL, FRAMEWORK FOR THE BAR TO APPLY CONSISTENT STANDARDS.
MAYBE JUST, MAYBE YOU COULD JUST STOP IT THERE.
YOU SAY APPLICATIONS FOR APPROVAL.
I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE SAYS THIS.
SO I THOUGHT THAT EVEN IF IT DOESN'T HAVE TO COME BEFORE THE BAR, A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS STILL HAS TO BE ISSUED.
AND IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES IT CAN BE ISSUED BY YOU ALL.
WE HAVE AN ADMINISTRATIVE COA.
SO I WOULD LIKE SOMEWHERE IN HERE FOR THE PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE.
THEY HAVE TO HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FROM THE ZONING OFFICE.
EITHER WAY, IF THEY'RE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, THEY STEP ONE CA STEP ONE.
SOME OF THEM ARE ADMINISTRATIVE.
SO MAYBE WE CAN INCLUDE THAT IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH.
TAKE THE THIRD PARAGRAPH AND MAKE THAT THE SECOND PARAGRAPH.
BECAUSE THE FIRST PARAGRAPH IS YOU'RE DISCUSSING THE MARK, THE SECOND PARAGRAPH YOU'RE STILL DISCUSSING.
MARK, THE THIRD PARAGRAPH THEN SEGUES INTO THE GUIDELINES.
AND, AND THAT MIGHT BE A PLACE WHERE YOU COULD STATE THAT, UM, EVERY, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO START THAT WITH, EVERY PROJECT REQUIRES A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATE.
THESE GUIDELINES ARE INTENDED.
OR I, I STILL THINK MAYBE WITH THAT PARAGRAPH THOUGH, YOU NEED TO CHANGE, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE YOU DON'T NEED TO SAY CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS.
'CAUSE THE BAR ISN'T THE ONLY ONES APPROVING THE C OA.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? BUT YOU ARE APPLYING, I MEAN, IT SAYS THE BAR TO APPLY STANDARDS, ET CETERA FOR CO A APPROVAL OF COA.
SO MAYBE JUST STOP AT REVIEWING APPLICATIONS.
OR MAYBE YOU SAY THE HISTORIC OVERLAY DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES ARE A SUPPLEMENTARY SET OF STANDARDS TO THOSE OUTLINED IN THE TOWN CALLED, UH, CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS IS REQUIRED FOR FOUR DEMOLITION,
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NEW CONSTRUCTIONS, RENOVATIONS, REPAIRS, AND SIGNAGE IN THE FRONT ROYAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.THESE GUIDELINES ARE USED BY THE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN SAY IF AND PLANNING AND ZONING ARE JUST BOARD OF OUR
ADMINISTRATIVE IS WHAT WE, IS HOW IT'S LISTED LIKE IN OUR FEE SCHEDULE.
AND ADMINISTRATIVE COA RIGHT BOARD REVIEW, COA.
YOU CAN SAY AND TOWN STAFF CERTIFICATE.
AND WE COULD EVEN INTRODUCE COA IS REQUIRED FOR DEMOLITION, CONSTRUCTION, RENOVATION, REPAIRS AND SIGNAGE IN THE FRONT ROYAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THESE GUIDELINES ARE USED BY THE BAR AND TOWN STAFF WHEN APPROVAL FOR WHEN ISSUING COAS.
YOU COULD EVEN DEFINE BOTH ADMINISTRATIVE AND THAT THAT WAY THEY KNOW THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.
DEFENSE IS ADMINISTRATIVE NORM.
YEAH, I THINK WE COULD, WE COULD, WE COULD, WE NEED TO GET ACROSS IN THE FIRST COUPLE OF SENTENCES WE NEED TO GET ACROSS THE POINT THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO DO BASICALLY ANYTHING IN THE STORAGE DISTRICT.
THAT'S ALL WE NEED 'EM TO KNOW.
AND THEN WE CAN HAVE A WHOLE SECTION ON HOW THAT WORKS.
THESE ITEMS ARE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY, THESE ITEMS REQUIRE FAR REVIEW.
NO, I LIKE YOU JUST BE TO HIT 'EM, LIKE YOU SAID RIGHT UP FRONT.
ALL PROJECTS REQUIRE A CERTIFICATE.
I DON'T THINK IT HAS TO BE ANY MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT.
SO IT WOULD BE NICE IF THEY WERE MAGICALLY BEING EDITED UP THERE, BUT, WELL, I'M TRYING TO, I'M PRETTY SURE IT'S NOT MY JOB TO CAPTURE THIS, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DOING IT IN A WAY THAT GETS CAPTURED.
I THINK COLIN'S MAKING THANKS RIGHT NOW.
I'M ALSO WORKING IN THE LIVE DOCUMENT AS WELL.
I DID MISS WHAT SHE SAID, BUT I KNEW AT THE TIME SO I CAN GO BACK AND LISTEN TO IT.
SO JUST A GENERAL OPERATIONAL QUESTION.
SO IN OUR NEXT MEETING, WOULD WE HAVE A REFRESHED DOCUMENT TO SO WE COULD GO BACK AND MM-HMM
QUICKLY SEE WHAT THE MARKUPS, YEAH.
ARE WE READY TO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO ADD TO AUTHORITY AND LEGAL FRAMEWORK.
MAYBE THAT'S A QUESTION FOR I THINK I DON'T ANYTHING WAY, I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF NEEDS TO BE WHERE IT IS.
I MEAN, OH, WELL I THINK IT'S FINE THERE.
WELL, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE REALIZE THAT THERE IS SOME LEGALITY WITH WHAT WE'RE DOING.
WE'RE NOT JUST SITTING HERE WITH OUR CRAYONS.
YOU GUYS ARE
STAFF DIRECTORY, ALL THAT STUFF.
THIS IS THE PART THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER.
I WAS CONFUSED OF STEWART CHARACTER AND IT'S IMPORTANT, IT'S IN
THE BARBARA ROYAL STEWART CHARACTER REFERS TO THE QUALITIES THAT GIVE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT ITS DISTINCT IDENTITY.
THIS INCLUDES THE ARCHITECTURAL FORMS, MATERIALS, CRAFTSMANSHIP AND STREETSCAPES SHAPED BY THE CDO VALLEY'S HISTORY AND THE TOWN'S GROWTH FROM THE 18TH CENTURY.
I, I HAVE A QUESTION, AND I HAVEN'T GONE BACK TO LOOK AT THE, UM, HISTORIC DISTRICT APPLICATION, BUT TYPICALLY THEY INCLUDE IN IT A, UM, PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE IN THEIR INTRODUCTION.
DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER WHAT THAT TIME PERIOD IS WITH WHOEVER IT WAS THAT PUT IN THE APPLICATION FOR, TO CREATE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT? I DON'T KNOW.
I'M PRETTY SURE IT WAS THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
SO USUALLY THEY'RE PRETTY SPECIFIC.
BUT IT WAS, I I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY NOW.
SO WE SHOULD, MY MY REASON I'M ASKING THAT IS WE SHOULD BE CAREFUL NOT TO CONTRADICT RIGHT.
AND THAT WOULD BE CONNIE, THAT WOULD BE IN THE, THE NINETIES ERA SURVEY.
[00:35:01]
DIDN'T UNDERSTAND YOUR, THE QUESTION.SO WHEN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WAS CREATED, THERE WAS A WHOLE APPLICATION FORM THAT HAD TO BE, UM, CREATE MADE BUILDING BY BUILDING STREET, BY TREE STREET.
BUT THERE'S AN INTRODUCTION AND PART OF THE INTRODUCTION IS, UM, DESCRIBING WHAT THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE IS FOR THIS DISTRICT.
FOR THE SURVEY THAT WE'RE TALKING, TALKING WITH THE HISTORIC RESOURCE SURVEY.
IN THE ORIGINAL, THE SURVEY THAT WE WORKED FROM THAT WAS IN 1994.
AND SO WHERE DID IT OUTLINE WHAT HISTORIC PERIOD WERE THERE DATES? WHAT'S THE FIRST PAGE OF THAT DOCUMENT? YES.
SO, SO FOR INSTANCE, IF SOMEBODY HAS A, A, A, A BUILDING THAT'S IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT AND THEY WANNA PUT UP A NEON SIGN AND, AND IT'S DENIED BECAUSE THAT'S NOT PART OF THE OH NO, I REMEMBER WHAT THE SITUATION WAS.
IT WAS A RESTAURANT, A HISTORIC RESTAURANT.
THEY HAD AN OLD NEON SIGN IN FRONT OF THEIR BUILDING THAT HAD BEEN THERE FOR DECADES.
IT WAS JUST THE SIGN AND THEY WANTED TO RENOVATE IT AND PUT THE NEON BACK AND EVERYBODY WAS SO EXCITED ABOUT IT AND THEY WENT FOR APPROVAL FOR IT.
AND THEY WERE TOLD THAT THEY COULDN'T BECAUSE IT WAS OUTSIDE THE PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE WITHIN THE HISTORIC BUILDING.
SO IT WOULD'VE BEEN AN, UM, THE ACTUAL APPLICATION TO THE STATE.
SO I CAN USUALLY THE STATE WILL HAVE A, UM, DATABASE THAT HAS ALL OF THOSE APPLICATIONS IN IT.
AND, AND THIS IS, TO ME, THIS MIGHT HAVE ACTUAL WHOLE SURVEY BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF NEW DEAL STUFF AND, AND ALUMINUM WNS AS
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY NEW DEALS? WELL, I MEAN, SO THE, THE OLD THAT TOWN HALL WAS A WORKS PROGRESS ADMINISTRATION.
OH, SO YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A PARTICULAR TIME PERIOD.
IN OTHER WORDS, THERE, THERE'S A VERY SORT OF ART DECO WORKS PROGRESS, UM, STREAMLINE, LIKE THE OLD APARTMENT TWO G WITH THE, WITH THE CASEMENT WINDOWS ON THE CORNERS.
THAT IS COMPLETELY PERIOD APPROPRIATE FOR 1940.
UM, AND I JUST THINK SOME THINGS WILL BE WORTH SAVING AS, HEY, THESE ARE 1940S, THEY'RE NEW DEAL PARK WAS NEW.
IT SHOULD BE A CASE BY CASE BASIS, BUT ABSOLUTELY.
I THINK YOUR POINT IS THERE SHOULD BE KIND OF A BROAD STROKE, RIGHT? THIS IS THE, THE FOUNDATION OF THE TOWN IS FROM, FROM RIGHT HERE.
SO I WAS JUST BRINGING THAT UP AS, AS, AS SOMETHING TO INFORM THAT LAST SENTENCE.
YEAH, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT THOUGH.
I'LL SEE WHAT I CAN, I'M SURE IT'S THE SAME 18TH CENTURIES, PRETTY BROAD
AND WE CAN ALSO INCLUDE IN THAT, THAT WE ALSO HAVE GREAT BUILDINGS FROM LAST, OH, IT SAYS 18 CENTURY ONWARD ONWARD.
I THINK IN THIS, THE LAST, UH, HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, APPLICATION THAT I WORKED ON, THEY WERE VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT THE PUR, UH, TIMEFRAME OF IMPORTANCE, WHICH WAS THE 1890S MM-HMM
BUT, UM, YEAH, LET ME JUST, UM, SEE WHAT IT SAYS.
I WOULD LIKE ANOTHER BULLET AND KEY COMPONENTS OF HISTORIC CHARACTER THERE WAS, THERE, THERE WOULD CULTURAL ASSOCIATIONS, CIVIL WAR, SHENANDOAH VALLEY'S COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL HERITAGE.
BUT ALSO THE CREATE, I MEAN, I, I WOULD EVEN ADD A BULLET, YOU KNOW, THE NEW DEAL, UM, NEW DEAL BUILDINGS AND THE CREATION OF THE NATIONAL PARK AS ANOTHER THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
IT, IT IS A HISTORICAL MOMENT, BUT IS THAT THEY, MOST OF THEM HAPPEN NOT TO BE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE ONE UP ON THE HILL THERE BETWEEN CHRYSLER AND, UM, I JUST THINK THAT KIND OF MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT RAMBLING.
UH, AND THEN, I MEAN, SO ON, ON LINES 51 AND 52, WHICH ARE CURRENTLY BLANK 51 AND 52, UH, WHERE YOU COULD SAY, OH, KEY COMPONENTS.
OH, I THOUGHT WE WERE STILL IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH.
[00:40:01]
OH, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.SO YOU WANNA ADD ANOTHER BULLET TO SAY WHY? WELL, SO JUST A GENERAL I'M DOING COMMENT OFF SIDE.
YOU KNOW, NEW DEAL WORKS PROGRESS AND THE CREATION OF THE NATIONAL PARK.
UM, YEAH, IT COULD, IT COULD EVEN BE INCLUDED IN THE CULTURAL ASSOCIATIONS MM-HMM
THE CULTURAL ASSOCIATIONS OF THE KEY COMPONENTS OF HISTORIC CHARACTER.
ARE WE DONE WITH HISTORIC CHARACTER? YES.
SO WE'LL START WITH THE FIRST BULLET.
ARCHITECTURAL FORM AND STYLE, TWO STORY BRICK COMMERCIAL BLOCKS, VICTORIAN AREA RESIDENCES, VERNACULAR COTTAGES, AND CIVIC LANDMARKS THAT EMBODY THE TOWN'S DEVELOPMENT AS A RAILROAD AND RIVER HUB.
I WONDER IF WE NEED TO HAVE A PAGE OF DEFINITIONS LIKE VERNACULAR, VICTORIAN ERA.
WHAT WAS IT? WHAT WAS SOMETHING? THERE WAS SOMETHING ELSE UP HERE.
UM, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD THING TO START FOR THE, THE SUPPLEMENTARY DOCUMENT.
DO YOU WANT ME TO START ON EN LIST OF DEFINITIONS AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS? I MEAN, YEAH.
I MEAN, FIRST WE NEED A DE A SECTION FOUR DEFINITIONS IN OUR NEW
I'LL START A LIST FOR YOU ALL.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD ONE TO DEFINE FOR PEOPLE.
IS THAT A THING, AN ACTUAL, I MEAN, I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN, BUT IS THAT, IS THAT DEFINABLE LIKE VICTORIAN ERA? I THINK SO.
I THINK IN IN, AT LEAST IN THE UNITED STATES IT WOULD BE.
CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
IS THAT NEEDED DEFINITION FOR SURE.
ALL RIGHT, SO THE NEXT BULLET.
LOCALLY FIRED BRICK, BUCKINGHAM SLATE, LIMESTONE FOUNDATIONS AND POINTED PAINTED WOOD SIDING THAT REFLECT BOTH REGIONAL RESOURCES AND TRADITIONAL BUILDING PRACTICES.
CAN I GO BACK TO BUCKINGHAM SLATE? SURE.
IS THAT AN ACTUAL PRODUCT FROM ONE LOCATION OR IS THAT A NAME OF A TYPE OF STONE? IT'S A TYPE OF SLATE.
UH, IT COULD BE, BUT IT'S A LITTLE
SO THE GEOLOGY BOOKS ARE GONNA CALL IT BUCKINGHAM SLATE? PROBABLY NOT.
BUT ANYBODY THAT'S EVER WORKED ON A SLATE ROOF KNOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BUCKINGHAM AND ANY OTHER KIND.
UM, BUT WE COULD JUST SAY SLATE.
WHAT IS BUCKINGHAM? I'VE HEARD IT.
BUCKINGHAM SLATE COMES OUT OF A LOT.
THAT'S WHY IT SOUNDS FAMILIAR.
SO I'M CURIOUS WHY BUCKINGHAM SLATE WOULD BE LISTED HERE.
UM, BECAUSE THE FIRST THING THAT POPPED IN MY HEAD,
OH, BECAUSE WHEN YOU SAY SLATE, YOU MEAN BUCKHAM STATE.
I WONDER IF, I MEAN DO, IF IT JUST SAYS SLATE, BUT YOU REALLY WANT THAT HIGHER QUALITY.
YOU WANT PEOPLE TO PUT A HIGHER QUALITY ON THEIR BUILDINGS.
IS THAT WITHIN OUR PURVIEW TO DO THAT? WITHIN OUR ASPIRATIONS?
YEAH, I THINK WHAT IN THIS LIST, I THINK WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO CAPTURE THERE IS THE IDEAL, YOU KNOW? MM-HMM
FEW COMPONENTS HAVE HISTORIC CHARACTER.
THREE FIRED, BRICK SANDING, SEA METAL, LAKE PINESTONE FOUNDATIONS.
CAN WE BACK UP TO LOCALLY FIRED BRICK? WHAT SINCE BRICK IS BEING DESCRIBED AS THE TERMS LOCALLY FIRED, LOCALLY FIRED BECOMES AN ADJECTIVE.
AND SO THERE NEEDS TO BE A HYPHEN BETWEEN LOCALLY AND FIRED.
BY DOING THAT, IT MAKES IT INTO AN ADJECTIVE OF BRICK.
HOW ABOUT STONE FOUNDATIONS? BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF FOUNDATIONS THAT AREN'T LIMESTONE.
RIVERSTONE, I MEAN, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT
[00:45:01]
DO WE CALL, IS THERE A STONE ROOF FOR OTHER BLUESTONE? I THINK LEAVING IT AT STONE.SO TELL ME ABOUT LOCALLY SOURCED.
YOU CAN TELL I'VE ONLY LIVED HERE A YEAR.
UM, IT'S MORE OF A GUESS ON MY PART.
BUT I MEAN, ARE THERE BRICK PRODUCERS IN VIRGINIA? WELL, BACK IN THE DAY, I MEAN, EVERYBODY, EVERY TOWN WOULD HAVE ITS OWN BRICKYARD, BRICKYARD, BRICK PLANT.
YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE, UM, DIDN'T HAVE THE LOGISTICAL CAPABILITY COMPONENTS TO SHIP THAT KIND OF WEIGHT.
PEAK COMPONENTS LOCALLY FIRED BRICK.
SO WHAT WE'RE DESCRIBING IS THINGS THAT EXIST IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, RIGHT? YEAH.
KEY COMPONENTS OF HISTORICAL CHARACTER.
IS THE SLAVE ON THESE BUILDINGS? BUCKING OF SLAVE, BUT IT IS, LEAVE IT IN.
I MEAN, I DON'T CAN'T EVEN SAY TWO TERRIBLY MINI STRUCTURES IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT HAVE A SLATE ROOF STILL ON THEM.
EVEN THERE'S ONE ON WEST MAIN STREET.
I CAN'T THINK OF, I DON'T THINK THE ONE ON NORTH ROYAL AVENUE REALLY WENT BACK WITH, WITH SLATE.
THAT LOOKS LIKE SLATE NEXT TO THE CREDIT UNION.
WELL, I'M SURE WE COULD FIND SOME, BUT I DO THINK METAL STANDING STEAM, STEAM NEEDS TO BE IN THERE.
AND I HAVE TO ASK, UM, THERE'S A HECK OF A LOT OF STUCCO.
AND ACCORDING TO DEWEY, SOME OF IT WAS ORIGINALLY DONE MM-HMM
AND THEN THERE WAS A WAVE, A PERIOD OF TIME WHEN IT BECAME A FAAB.
AND YOU CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE WHEN YOU LOOK AT HOW IT WAS APPLIED.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IN THE COMPOSITION OF IT IS, BUT YOU CAN TELL IN AGGREGATE.
YOU CAN TOTALLY TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
IT WAS KIND OF A, OF LOCALLY FIRED.
WHY DON'T WE JUST SAY HISTORIC BRICK.
HISTORIC BRICK STONE FOUNDATIONS PAINTED WOOD SIDING AND YOU SEE METAL ROOF.
THERE'S NO RESOURCES IN THE TRADITIONAL BUILDING PRACTICES.
WHAT ELSE SHOULD GO IN THERE? WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT ECQUA? I'M SORRY.
I HAVE STANDING SEA METAL ROOF.
SO STUCCO SHOULD BE, STUCCO SHOULD BE NEXT TO PAINTED WOOD SIDING.
SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EXTERIOR WALLS, YOU NEED TO BE SIDING AND JUST STUCCO BY ITSELF IS WHAT YOU WANT.
CAN WE BACK UP TO THE TITLE OF THIS CHAPTER? KEY COMPONENTS OF HISTORIC CHARACTERS THAT SHOULD, THAT SAY KEY COMPONENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT CHARACTER OR CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
KEY COMPONENTS OF HISTORIC CHARACTER.
I THINK WE COULD MAKE IT MORE SPECIFIC.
I THINK I WAS KIND OF GOING IN TWO DI TWO DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS WRITING THIS.
I WAS TRYING TO THINK OF WHAT MAKES A HISTORIC DISTRICT HISTORIC.
BUT I KIND OF, IN THE COURSE OF WRITING, IT WENT MORE SPECIFIC TO THE TOWN, SO, AH, YEP.
I SEE WHAT YOU'RE, I SEE WHERE YOU'RE GOING.
CHANGING IT TO THE KEY COMPONENTS OF, SO MAYBE WE SHOULD DO ONE OR THE OTHER.
KEEP IT BROAD OR MAKE IT MORE SPECIFIC JUST TO THE CHARACTER OF THE CASE.
KEY COMPONENTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT'S CHARACTER.
WELL, KEY COMPONENTS OF FRONT ROYAL'S HISTORIC DISTRICT.
I I MEAN I, I I DO THINK THIS IS A BULLETED LIST OF THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO FRONT ROYAL.
AND THEN LATER WE DREW A DISTRICT AND SAID, WE'RE GONNA PROTECT IT IN THIS AREA, BUT NOT OTHER PLACES.
SO I, I LIKE THIS AS, AS A GENERAL LIST OF THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO EVERYONE LOCALLY.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH THESE BULLETS IS DEFINE THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE IT.
IT'S LIKE, AND THE, AND THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE THAT SAYS, HISTOR DEFINES HISTORIC CHARACTER.
WHICH IS THE QUALITIES THAT GIVE THE DISTRICT ITS IDENTITY.
I FIND KEY COMPONENTS OF OUR HISTORIC CHARACTER.
I THINK IT SHOULD STAY BECAUSE HISTORIC CHARACTER IS DEFINED IN THE PARAGRAPH ABOVE.
IF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GETS DISTINCT IDENTITY.
AND THEN YOU'VE GONE ON TO DESCRIBE HISTORIC CHARACTER.
[00:50:02]
I, I ACTUALLY THINK IT'S GOOD THE WAY IT IS.UH, I WOULD LIKE TO PUT FRONT PORCHES ON THAT.
UM, THAT'S ANOTHER WE DON'T DO MM-HMM
UM, I THINK THAT LIKE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT A VERNACULAR COTTAGE IS KNOWS THAT IT TENDS TO HAVE A PORCH.
BUT, UH, WHAT OTHER PEOPLE I MIGHT JUST, AND, AND YOU AND I THINK IT COULD EITHER GO IN ARCHITECTURAL FORM OR IN SETTING IN CONTEXT.
'CAUSE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE WALKABLE BLOCKS, EVEN THE PORTICO WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT AND MM-HMM
SO YOU'RE GONNA PUT THAT IN FORM AND STYLE.
AND ARE YOU OKAY ADDING IT? DECORATIVE PORCHES? YEAH.
I THINK MATERIALS AND CRAFTSMANSHIP.
DID YOU SAY COVER PORCHES? THEY'RE NOT ALL SUPER DECORATIVE.
JUST PORCHES,
I THINK IT GOES UNDER ARCHITECTURAL FORM.
SO, SO WHAT DO YOU WANT IN THERE? COVERED PORCHES.
I DON'T THINK WE CAN LEAVE PORTICO.
PEOPLE GONNA ASK YOU, WHAT'S IT PORTICO? YEAH.
HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM PORCHES?
IT'S A BIG TRIANGLE ON THE FRONT.
NO, WE'RE TRYING TO BE A MESSAGE WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE A PORTICO.
SETTING IN CONTEXT, WALKABLE MAIN STREET BLOCKS, THE TOWN GAZEBO, TRADITIONAL LOT PATTERNS AND TREELINE STREETS THAT TOGETHER CREATE A COHESIVE HISTORIC LANDSCAPE.
DOES THE AREA OF THE TOWN GAZEBO HAVE A BIGGER NAME? THE GAZEBO IS JUST ONE LITTLE JOHN MARLOW PLAZA THERE.
MAYBE JOHN MARLOW PLAZA AND THE TOWN GAZEBO.
SO ZERO DATES TO AFTER THE FIRE THAT BURNED THAT BLOCK.
WHAT WOULD YOU ADD OR TAKE OUT OF THAT? WELL, I, I THINK IT'S SAME CONTEXT.
WE'RE JUST ADDING JOHN MARLOW PLAZA.
I MEAN, UH, I READ THAT TO BE, YOU KNOW, REAR REAR YARDS, YOU KNOW, SMALL FRONT YARDS AND LARGE REAR YARDS OR, YOU KNOW, WHAT STRUCK ME AS SO, SO, UM, UNIQUE? NOT UNIQUE, BUT, 'CAUSE I SEE IT IN A LOT OF TOWNS, BUT THAT CENTRAL ALLEY MM-HMM
WHAT DOES THAT HAVE A NAME? JUST ALLEYS.
I SPENT A LOT OF TIME ALLEYWAYS.
I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S VERY, VERY COOL ABOUT, IT'S FUNNY, I WOULD ADD ALLEYWAYS IN THE SETTINGS AND CONTEXT ALLEYWAYS.
THAT WAS A HUGE PART OF MY CHILDHOOD.
I NEVER REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT'S WHERE I WAS WHEN JOHN PLAZA ON THE TOWN, GAZEBO ALLEY UP.
SO TRADITIONAL LOT PATTERNS IS, UM, LOT PATTERNS AND ALLEYWAYS.
ALLEYWAYS, TREELINE STREETS AND ALLEYWAYS.
WE'RE PUTTING THE ALLEYWAYS WITH THE STREETS.
I PUT THREE LINE STREETS AND ALLEYS.
I MEAN, IS TRADITIONAL PATTERNS
[00:55:01]
JUSTMAYBE THAT'S THE EASY WAY, YOU KNOW, UH, DEEP, UH, DEEP SKINNY LAWNS.
SO I THINK TRADITIONAL IN FRONT ROYAL ALSO INCLUDES SOME VERY AWKWARD STREETS.
WHEN YOU SAY TRADITIONAL, I THINK TRADITIONAL TWO FIRM ROYAL.
MAYBE THAT'S NOT WHAT THAT MEANS.
DOES TRADITIONAL MEAN A RECTANGLE? I WAS THINKING MORE OF THE KIND OF THE THE SETBACK YEAH.
THAT'S REALLY WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT.
IS MAYBE TRADITIONAL KNOT PATTERNS OF DEFECTS.
HOW DO YOU DEFINE NOT, MAYBE NOT.
YOU LOOK AT SOMEBODY, THE LAYMAN READ SETBACK.
NOW WHAT THE HELL? THEY DON'T KNOW.
LEAVE IT IN TRADITIONAL LOT PATTERNS.
I THINK THAT GIVES A LITTLE MORE DETAIL WITHOUT BEING TOO WELL, AND IT ALSO SAID THAT THE LOT PATTERNS ARE IMPORTANT TO US.
I THINK THAT COVERS QUITE A FEW THINGS.
SO I THINK, I THINK IT COVERS QUITE A FEW THINGS.
SO I THINK IT'S OKAY TO LEAVE IT SOMEWHAT BROAD.
CULTURAL ASSOCIATION CONNECTIONS TO THE CIVIL WAR, SHENANDOAH VALLEY'S COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL HERITAGE AND THE LIVES OF FAMILIES AND BUSINESSES THAT SHAPED.
SO MAYBE THE THINGS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, WERE YOU SAYING A SEPARATE BULLET OR YOU GONNA ADD NO, ITS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT, WHY IT MATTERS IN FRONT ROYAL.
THE VERY FIRST BULLET UNDER THAT ON LINE 62 IS REINFORCES FRONT ROYAL'S IDENTITY AS A GATE, LAND TO SKY, GATEWAY TO SKYLINE.
UM, YOU KNOW, YOU STILL COULD PUT THE NEW DEAL, UM, IN THE CULTURAL AS ASSOCIATIONS.
OH, I SEE WHERE YOU'RE FLICKING NOW.
I ALREADY TOOK THAT OFF THE BACK OF YOUR CHAIR A WHILE AGO.
I SHOULD HAVE JUST SMOOSHED IT.
UM, I, I DID THINK THAT OH, OH, HE, SORRY.
I THINK THERE SHOULD BE A MENTION TO THAT OF THE NEW DEAL.
SO IT'S A CULTURAL ASSOCIATION OR A CULTURAL ASSOCIATION THAT IT HAD ON FRONT.
ROYALS WORKS TO CIVILIAN CONSERVATION CORPS.
THE RIGHT, MAYBE IT COMES AFTER THE CIVIL WAR BECAUSE THAT WAS, THAT WAS AN ERA.
CONNECTIONS TO THE CIVIL WAR NEW DEAL ERA.
THE SHENANDOAH VALLEY'S COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL HERITAGE.
SO MAYBE NEW DEAL COMES IN AFTER CIVIL WAR.
SO CONNECTIONS TO THE CIVIL WAR, CIVIL THE NEW DEAL ERA.
THE NANDO VALLEY'S COMMERCIAL INDUSTRIAL HERITAGE.
SO THE TITLE OF THE NEXT ONE, WHY IT MATTERS IN FRONT ROYAL.
WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF IT? HISTORIC CHARACTER.
CAN WE SAY THAT? WHY HISTORIC CHARACTER MATTERS IN FRONT ROYAL.
WHAT DO YOU GOT? NOT THAT IT'S ALL ABOUT AUDIENCE, BUT THE OTHER
THE THIRD ONE IS, AND MAKING THEM NATURALLY MORE PLEASANT TO BE IN.
WHAT, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY NATURALLY? WELL, SHADE IS THE, IS, UM, SHADE IS STREET SCAPE.
WELL, SHADE IS ALSO SUSTAINABILITY.
BECAUSE, BECAUSE IF I'M IN THE SHADE, I'M NOT
THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE, UH, SO JUST ON LINE 65, WE ARE PROMOTING SUSTAINABILITY BY EXTENDING THE LIFE OF EXISTING BUILDINGS AND REDUCING WASTE FROM DEMOLITION.
I THINK MEANING DON'T CHANGE OUT YOUR WINDOWS.
I I THINK THAT, THAT THE OTHER THING THAT WE ARE, DO WE ARE PRESERVING BUILDINGS AND FIELD BUILDINGS FROM BEFORE AIR CONDITIONING.
WHEN YOU ACTUALLY DID PLANT TREES AND
[01:00:01]
YOU DID HAVE AWNINGS AND, AND YOU DID HAVE PORCHES.BECAUSE, UM, YOU DIDN'T NEED, UH, AIR CONDITIONING TO MAKE THEM HABIT.
I'M JUST, YOU COULD, UM, OLD BUILDINGS ARE IN SOME SENSES MORE SUSTAINABLE.
UM, UM, FOR MOST SUSTAINABILITY FINES.
I, I SO EXPLAIN WHAT A PORCH, HOW YOU WOULD, HOW A PORCH INTO THAT LINE.
I MEAN, UM, YOU KNOW, BY EXTENDING THE LIFE EXISTING BUILDINGS, I'M, I'M NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO PULL IT OFF.
I THINK THIS MIGHT BE, IS NOT THE PLACE TO PUT IT, BUT I WONDER IF WE CAN KEEP THAT IN MIND FOR ANOTHER PLACE IN THE WHOLE DOCUMENT.
BECAUSE I'LL BET THERE'S NOT A HOUSE IN TOWN THAT, UM, DOESN'T HAVE SOME SORT OF, UH, HEATING, AIR CONDITIONING OF SOME SORT AND THEY'RE NOT RELYING ON THEIR FRONT PORCH.
I THINK TRADITIONALLY BUILDINGS WERE CONSTRUCTED, BUT PASSIVE, YOU KNOW.
COOLING DESIGNED INTO THEM IN A BIG WAY.
I DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE BEING SUSTAINED.
LIFE PROMOTING PASSIVE SYSTEMS, YOU COULD SAY THERE.
AND REDUCING WASTE FROM DEMOLITION.
AND WHAT IS, THEN WE HAVE TO DEFINE PASSIVE SYSTEMS. YEAH.
WHY DON'T WE KEEP YOUR IDEA IN MIND? ALL RIGHT.
I THINK MAYBE THAT KEEP ALL INSIDE, THAT'S NOT THE PLACE.
YEAH, I BET WE'LL FIND A PLACE.
I BET WE'LL FIND A PLACE WHERE IT, IT'S IMPORTANT.
CAN WE TALK ABOUT 67 FOR A SECOND? YES.
SOMEHOW, I, I FEEL LIKE THERE SHOULD BE WOVEN INTO THIS, NOT JUST COMMUNITY PRIDE, BUT UM, A SENSE OF COMMUNITY.
LIKE YOU'RE PART OF A NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU'RE PART OF A COMMUNITY, YOU'RE PART OF SOMETHING, RIGHT? CIVIC LIFE.
AND NOT JUST ON MAIN STREET THOUGH, BUT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, THE WORD FOR THAT.
A SENSE OF, I MEAN, SENSE OF, SENSE OF PLACE, BUT NOT JUST ABOUT THE PLACE, BUT IT BRINGS PEOPLE TO TOGETHER.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE A NICE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THROW SOME WORDS OUT HERE, I DON'T KNOW.
PROMOTE CIVIC ENGAGEMENT, PROMOTE PART OF SOMETHING BIGGER THAN JUST, UM, PROMOTE SPONTANEOUS CONVERSATIONS, UH, OVER A
I MEAN, BUT I MEAN THE, EXACTLY.
IN OTHER WORDS, UH, CHANCE ENCOUNTERS.
LIKE IF, IF WE'RE BOTH WALKING OUR DOG, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE YEAH.
THAT IT'S, UM, SO, BUT WHAT WE'RE DESCRIBING HERE IS WHY HISTORIC CHARACTER MATTERS IN
SO I'M NOT SURE THAT CHANCE ENCOUNTERS NO, BUT I'M, WE'RE LOOKING FOR SOME, SOME SORT OF BRAINSTORM.
UM, CIVIC, UM, COMMUNITY PRIDE AND CONTINUITY.
AND, AND THIS IS, IS CIVIC LIFE.
JUST TO MAYBE TRY SOMETHING WITH A BOND.
UH, SOMETHING WITH INTERGENERATIONAL BONDS.
CREATING A BOND BASED IN THE COMMUNITY.
WHAT ABOUT JUST COMMUNITY PRIDE AND BOND? COMMUNITY PRIDE AND, HMM.
I SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT MY HISTORIC PRESERVATION MAGAZINE.
THERE WAS A GREAT ARTICLE IN THERE ABOUT THIS FROM NEW ORLEANS.
IT'S LAYING ON MY DESK AT WORK.
WE CAN, CAN MAKE A NOTE OF LET'S TABLE THAT.
[01:05:01]
THAT, I'LL GO BACK AND GET SOME LANGUAGE THERE.GUIDING PRINCIPLES WITHIN FRONT RULES, HISTORIC DISTRICT, ALL ALTERATIONS, ADDITIONS AND NEW CONSTRUCTIONS SHALL PROTECT AND ENHANCE HISTORIC CHARACTER.
SO CAN WE BACK UP TO THE TITLE OF THAT? YES.
IT LOOKS, BECAUSE IT'S NOT ENC CAPED THAT IT'S A SUBCATEGORY OF WHY? YEAH.
IT NEEDS TO BE, IT JUST DIDN'T GET CAPITALIZED.
GUIDING PRINCIPLES OF WHAT? GUIDING PRINCIPLES OF THE, OF HISTORIC CHARACTER GUIDING PRINCIPLES.
IT'S GUIDING PRINCIPLES OF THE BAR AND OH, OH, OH, OKAY.
AND IT'S KIND OF OUR, A ROUGH OUTLINE OF OUR, HOW WE VIEW OUR ROLE.
SO THIS IS GUIDING PRINCIPLES OF THE BAR? I THINK SO.
OR OF HIS HISTORIC PRESERVATION.
IT'S OUR, IT'S THE, IT'S THE SHOTGUN BLAST OF WHY WE'RE DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING.
I THINK GUIDING PRINCIPLES SHOULD HAVE A COUPLE MORE WORDS AFTER IT.
BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT GUIDING PRINCIPLES COULD BE.
THE BAR'S VISION THAT BAR'S, UH, OR RULES AND REGULATIONS.
WHY, WHY HISTORIC CHARACTER MATTERS IN
THEN GUIDING PRINCIPLES, UH, JUST SEEMS LIKE IT.
IT'S NOT, IS IT GUIDING PRINCIPLES OF THE BAR OR GUIDING PRINCIPLES? YEAH.
GLANCE THROUGH WHAT'S BENEATH THAT? 72 TO EIGHT.
SO IT NEEDS TO STATE THAT, THAT IN PRINCIPLE ARE, IS IT YOUR PURPOSE? MAYBE? SAY THAT AGAIN.
IS THAT OUR MISSION? OUR MISSION? IT IS, IT IS OUR MISSION STATEMENT.
SHOULD WE CALL IT THE MISSION STATEMENT UP FOR THE BAR? IS THERE A REAL MISSION STATEMENT? THERE IS NOW IT'S ABOUT TO BE THAT'S WHAT YOU, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU CHANGED THIS TO.
WELL, LET'S LOOK AT THAT A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.
I THOUGHT GUIDING PRINCIPLES WAS A LITTLE MORE, LESS, LESS, LESS.
CAN, CAN WE DO, AM I WHACKING OUT IN LEFT FIELD HERE? CAN WE SAY GUIDING PRINCIPLES OF THE BAR? SURE.
WE COME UP WITH SOMETHING BETTER.
YEAH, I THINK, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE SEPARATED A BIT BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, THE DISTRICT HISTORIC DISTRICTS CHARACTERISTICS AND THEN YOU GO INTO GUIDING PRINCIPLES.
SO IT'S KIND OF CONFUSING 'CAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE LEAVING ONE AREA AND THEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE AS ARE IS MM-HMM
SO THERE'S DEFINITELY, UH, UH, WE NEED A, WE COULD MOVE IT UP.
UP TO THE, I WONDER WHERE YOU'RE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT THE BAR BY THE BELOW THE INTRODUCTION OR, I THINK THAT'S A FANTASTIC IDEA.
SO MOVE THIS SECTION UP TO IT WOULD BE ON 69.
WELL, MY, MY LINES ARE DIFFERENT.
SO WHERE, WHERE ARE YOU GONNA MOVE IT TO? IT NEEDS TO GO ON TO PAGE ONE.
BETWEEN THE INTRODUCTION AND AUTHORITY AND LEGAL, LEGAL FRAMEWORK.
UP BETWEEN OR JUST BELOW THE AUTHORITY AND LEGAL FRAMEWORK.
WHERE DO YOU WANT IT MOVED TO PAGE ONE.
I, I WOULD THINK IT WOULD GO JUST AFTER AUTHORITY AND LEGAL FRAMEWORK.
HERE'S A SMALL NUMBER OF VERY FANCY CODE SECTIONS, BUT HERE'S, HERE'S WHAT WE THINK OUR RULES ARE.
DO WE WANNA GO INTO THOSE BULLETS? SURE, YEAH.
LET'S GET TO THE TABLE OF CONTENT AND STOP THERE.
RESPECTING ORIGINAL FEATURES, HISTORIC MATERIALS, FORMS AND CRAFTSMANSHIP ARE TO BE PRESERVED AND MAINTAINED WHEREVER FEASIBLE WITH REPAIR, PREFERRED OVER REPLACEMENT,
[01:10:01]
RESPECTING ORIGINAL FEATURES.I THINK PRINCIPLES, RESPECTING ORIGINAL FEATURES.
SO WHAT DOES FEASIBLE MEAN? IS THAT A MONEY THING? IS THAT A RIGHT, EXACTLY.
IS IT NO, I MEAN, THAT'S A HARD ONE.
AND I DEBATED PUTTING THAT IN THERE.
BECAUSE IT GIVES A WHOLE LOT OF WIGGLE ROOM BECAUSE THE, I MEAN, IT'S EVERY SINGLE APPLICATION WE BRING UP REPAIR AND EVERYBODY GOES, CAN'T AFFORD TO DO THAT.
WELL, WHAT IF YOU JUST, WHY CAN'T YOU JUST TAKE IT OUT? YEAH.
I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE IT AT THE START.
MATERIALS, FARMS AND CRAFTSMANSHIP TO BE PRESERVED AND MAINTAINED.
WITH REPAIR PREFERRED OVER REPLACEMENTS.
CAN YOU REPEAT THE CHANGE? JUST TAKE OUT WHEREVER FEASIBLE.
COMPATIBILITY WITHOUT IMITATION, NEW WORK SHALL BE COMPATIBLE IN SCALE, MASSING RHYTHM, MATERIALS AND DETAILS, BUT REMAIN DISTINGUISHABLE CONSTRUCTION OF ITS OWN TIME, RATHER THAN ATTEMPTING TO CREATE A FALSE SENSE OF AGE.
YOU MEAN LIKE MY HOUSE
AND WHERE IS IT? WHERE IT'S UP ON VIRGINIA AVENUE.
IN FACT, WHEN WE FIRST SAW IT, WE THOUGHT IT WAS IN MM-HMM
IT'S BLUE, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY.
BUT THAT IS COMPATIBLE IN SCALE.
BUT IT DOES EXACTLY WHAT THIS SAYS NOT TO DO.
NO, THEN, THEN I REALLY LIKE THIS AND I, YEAH, THAT WAS, UH, YEAH, WE DON'T WANT CHEAP IMITATION, YOU KNOW? WHAT DO YOU MEAN? LIKE MY HOUSE? RIGHT.
IT'S NOT MY FAULT WE BOUGHT THAT HOUSE.
I, I MEAN THAT ONE IS STILL A MODERN STYLE.
SO THE BACKSTORY ON THAT IS THE BAR MADE THEM DO THAT STONE FACED FOUNDATION ON YOUR HOUSE.
WELL, WHAT'S INTERESTING IS MY HUSBAND CAME BEFORE THE BAR TO PRESENT A GARAGE HE WANTED TO BUILD, AND HE HAD THIS SIDING, THIS COMPOSITE SIDING MATERIAL, AND HE SHOWED IT TO, UM, WHO'S OUR ZONING GUY? JOHN WARE.
AND JOHN SAID THEY'LL NEVER LET YOU USE THAT.
AND HE'S LIKE, WELL, IT'S WHAT'S ON MY HOUSE,
I DON'T THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE ANY CHANGE IN THAT BULLET POINT AT ALL.
BUT I, I MEAN, I THINK IT EXPLAINS IT QUITE WELL, BUT I DO THINK THERE WILL BE LOTS OF CONVERSATION AROUND IT, WHICH IS OKAY.
THAT'S A HARD THING FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND.
THAT THAT WHOLE SECTION, THAT WHOLE LITTLE PARAGRAPH, EVERY, ALMOST EVERY WORD IN THAT COULD BE IN THE DEFINITION SECTION SCALE MASSING.
BUT I THINK THAT WHAT IS STATED THERE IS, IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE GONNA GET PRETEND HOUSE IS LIKE MINE.
I DON'T THINK IT HAS A FALSE SENSE OF AGE.
I THINK IT'S JUST MODERATE ENOUGH TO SET IT SET ITSELF APART AND I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT SIZE SHAPE.
WELL, WHAT'S SO FUNNY IS MOVING FROM UPSTATE NEW YORK WHERE EVERYTHING IS WOOD.
MY HUSBAND SAID, I CAN'T BELIEVE WE LIVE IN A PLASTIC HOUSE.
WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR STREET HERE? 1, 1 6.
OR BETWEEN FIRST AND SECOND? YEAH.
NO, I WE'RE REMEMBERING THAT THAT WAS A PET RYAN HOUSE AND THEY HAD TO, UH, IT USED TO BE A BLANK LOT.
IT'S, IT IS MY DEFINITION OF SUCCESS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WHERE SOMEONE HAS BUILT SOMETHING NEW WITH, WITH AN OLD LOOK OR A COMPATIBLE LOOK.
SO REMEMBER THE PEOPLE, I THINK, I THINK THEY DITCHED THEIR PROJECT, BUT THEY CAME IN TO DO A DUPLEX WHERE THE HOUSE BURNED DOWN.
THEY DIDN'T PROJECT, I THINK THEY STARTED EXCAVATING.
REALLY? THEY JUST HAD TO SELL IT FIRST.
THAT I SAW A SALE SIGN UP THERE MEAN THEY HAD TO, THEY HAD TO SELL THE OH, I SEE WHAT THAT WAS ABOUT.
THEY HAD TO SELL THE, THE HOUSE, THE DEVELOPERS WORK.
UM, SO I THINK THAT WAS, UM, THAT WAS EXACTLY WHAT THIS IS.
SAME MASSING AND STUFF AS THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND IT WASN'T GONNA BE OH GEEZ.
I MEAN
[01:15:01]
OF THE CODE, I FEEL LIKE A LITTLE MORE EFFECTIVELY IN OUR CONVERSATION WITH THEM.AND HONED IN ON THE FACT THAT IT'S ABOUT THE MATERIALS AND THE MASSING AND THE SCALE.
AND NOT NECESSARILY THIS SECTION IS EXACTLY WHY WE NEED A SUPPLEMENTAL DOCUMENT.
YOU COULD HAVE A MILE MM-HMM
BECAUSE IT'S A, IT'S KIND OF A WEIRD, IT'S A COUNTERINTUITIVE MM-HMM
IT'S LIKE, DO YOU WANT ME TO FIT IN? BUT YOU DON'T WANT ME TO FIT IN? WHAT DO YOU MEAN? IT'S A HARD CONCEPT TO GET MM-HMM
SO HERE'S MY, HERE'S MY ANGST HERE.
SO I'M WRITING LINE 74 ON HERE, BUT THE NEXT TIME WE SEE THIS DOCUMENT, IT'S GONNA BE A DIFFERENT NUMBER.
I'M JUST GONNA, I HAVE NOTES IN THIS COMPATIBILITY WITHOUT IMITATION.
THE NICE THING, THE HEADINGS ARE COMPATIBILITY WITHOUT LIMITATION.
I'VE JUST WRITTEN ALL OF THEM OUT IN RED INKS.
SO I'M GONNA ADD ALL OF THOSE TERMS TO THE LIST OF DEFINITIONS.
MEANING NEW CONSTRUCTION? UM, NEW CONSTRUCTION, YEAH.
YEAH, BECAUSE WORK COULD BE A RENOVATION.
MAYBE WE SHOULD SAY CONSTRUCTION, NEW WORK NEW.
NEW WORK SHALL BE COMPATIBLE SCALE.
SO REINFORCE ESTABLISHED PATTERNS OF STREET SCAPES, LOCK CONFIGURATIONS, AND ARCHITECTURAL FORMS THAT DEFINE THE DISTRICT.
SO HERE'S THE ISSUE THAT WE HAD ON THAT BURNED UP HOUSE WAS COMPATIBLE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THERE ARE DIFFERING NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE DISTRICT.
I WONDER IF WE CAN INCLUDE DEFINE HMM.
THERE ANY WAYS I THINK WE COULD CLARIFY ESTABLISHED AS WHAT IS THE, YOU KNOW, LIKE BLUE RIDGE AVENUE IS A PRIME EXAMPLE.
THERE'S LOTS OF GREAT OLD HOUSES AND THEN THERE'S A FRICKING TOWNHOUSE FROM THE NINETIES OR WHATEVER BEFORE THE BAR WAS A THING.
SO HOW ABOUT ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOOD PATTERNS OF STREETS, SCAPES, LIKE CONFIGURE CONFIGURATIONS IN
I THINK WE'RE ESTABLISHED WITHIN HISTORICAL PATTERNS OF STREET SCAPES ON THE MAJORITY, RATHER THAN, OKAY.
WE'RE LEAVING THAT PARAGRAPH AS IS.
SUSTAINABILITY AND CONTINUITY.
UM, INTERVENTIONS SHALL EXTEND THE USEFUL LIFE OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS.
SUPPORT SUSTAINABLE PRACTICES.
AND ENSURE THAT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT REMAINS VIABLE FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS INTERVENTIONS.
SO WHAT, WHAT IS MEANT BY INTERVENTIONS? JUST RENOVATIONS OR, I WAS JUST TRYING TO FIND A CATCHALL WORD THAT WAS YEAH.
INTERVENTIONS SHALL EXTEND THE USEFUL LIFE OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS INTERVENTIONS.
WELL, UP HERE WE USED REPAIR AND RENT RENOVATION.
THAT'S, WE USE NEW WORK REPAIR RENOVATIONS.
SO NEW WORK IS NOT REPAIR AND RENOVATIONS.
SO WE HAVE, AND I SEE THE NEXT ONE SAYS PRESERVATION.
SO I THINK WE NEED TO CHOOSE A COUPLE OF WORDS THAT ARE SORT OF CATCHALL PHRASES.
WHY COULDN'T NEW WORK BE REPAIRS AND RENOVATIONS? NOPE.
WELL, WHAT IF WE JUST SAID ALL WORK IN, IN THAT ONE INSTEAD OF INTERVENTIONS? OH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT PARAGRAPHS.
YEAH, WE, YEAH, WE'RE BOUNCING BACK AND FORTH A LITTLE BIT.
BUT THAT'S A GOOD POINT BECAUSE I THINK ALL WORK, I, I THINK, I DON'T KNOW WHAT I THINK THAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE, WHICH PARAGRAPH ARE WE ON? WE'RE BACK TO LINE 74.
I'M STILL, WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO 74.
OH YOU'RE SAYING, YOU'RE SAYING TAKE OUT INTERVENTION.
BUT WE SHOULD CHANGE 74 AS WELL THEN TO ALL
[01:20:01]
WORK.NO, BUT I THOUGHT THE POINT IS 70 APPROPRIATE.
THAT'S HOW, HOW YOU WERE GONNA GET YEAH.
COMPATIBILITY WITH ANNOTATION NEW.
I THINK NEWARK WORK IS APPROPRIATE ON 74.
SUSTAINABILITY, ALL WORK SHALL EXTEND THE USEFUL LIFE OF HISTORIC SUPPORT, SUSTAINABLE PRACTICES.
SO WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT SUSTAINABLE PRACTICES.
'CAUSE SOMEBODY CAN SAY, WHAT THE HECK DOES THAT MEAN? RIGHT.
AND I THINK IT IS MORE THAN JUST A DEFINITION.
SO MAYBE THERE'S A, A WAY TO AUGMENT THAT LINE OR, WELL, I DID, SURE.
I THINK I INCLUDED A SECTION ON SUSTAINABILITY SUPPORT, SUSTAINABLE PRACTICES.
I MEAN, SUSTAINABILITY CAN BE ECONOMIC.
SO HOW ABOUT SUSTAINABLE PRACTICES? OF SUSTAINABLE BUILDING PRACTICES? OH, SUSTAINABLE BUILDING TOO.
THAT HISTORIC DISTRICT REMAINS VIABLE.
I GOT AN ISSUE WITH THE WORD PRESERVATION.
SO THE
SO THAT COMES WITH A VERY CLEAR DEFINITION.
USING THEM AS THE GOLD STANDARD.
I LIKE THE FACT THAT AT THE TOP OF THIS, WE STARTED OUT WITH REPAIR AND REHABILITATION.
I WONDER IF WE SHOULD STICK TO THOSE TWO TERMS. REPAIR DECISIONS.
SHALL I RECOGNIZE REPAIR AND RENOVATION.
DECISIONS OR DECISIONS? GUIDING REPAIR AND RENOVATION.
WHAT IF IT WAS JUST DECISIONS SHALL RECOGNIZE THE DISTRICTS DECISIONS.
DECISION ABOUT WHAT? WELL, THIS, THIS WAS OUR, OUR GUIDING PRINCIPLES.
UH, SO IT WAS SORT OF LIKE OUR DECISIONS SHALL RECOGNIZED THAT THE DISTRICT'S HISTORIC CHARACTERS, BOTH THE CULTURAL RESOURCE THEN WE SHOULD SAY OUR DECISIONS.
OUR DECISIONS SHALL RECOGNIZE THAT THE DISTRICT'S HISTORIC CHARACTER OR DECISIONS OR BOARD, DID YOU SAY BOARD DECISIONS? YEAH.
WELL, IT'S KIND OF THAT OR STAFF
THAT THE DISTRICT'S HISTORIC CHARACTERS.
BOTH CULTURAL RESOURCE AND THRIVE.
ECONOMIC VITALITY THROUGH HERITAGE TOURISM.
DO YOU WANT BOARD DECISIONS? YOU WANT SHOW RECOGNIZED THE BOARDS? YEAH, THE BOARDS.
SO YOU WANT THE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW DECISIONS.
SO YOU CAN WRITE BAR, BECAUSE UP HERE, HIGHER UP, UH, IT'S WRITTEN OUT.
AND THEN SO YOU CAN KEEP USING BAR.
THE BAR'S DECISIONS, THE BAR BAR'S DECISIONS.
I THINK THAT'S A GOOD PLACE YOU GOT.
THE TODD TO ADOPT THIS, RIGHT? OR OR DO THEY I'M NOT SURE.
WELL, THERE, DO YOU KNOW DANIEL? UH, YEAH.
WHICH SAY CONNIE, WHAT YOU ASK, I DIDN'T ASK.
SOMEONE ASKED IF IT HAD TO TOWN COUNCIL HAD TO APPROVE THESE WHEN WE'RE DONE WITH THEM.
I'M, YEAH, I'M SURE THEY WILL.
SO I, I JUST THINK THAT THEY'LL APPRECIATE, THE TOWN COUNCIL WILL APPRECIATE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'RE SETTING RULES FOR OURSELVES.
AND, AND, AND YOU THINK MY SENSE FROM, FROM MY INTERVIEW WITH THE TOWN COUNCIL, THEIR, THEIR FIRST QUESTION WAS AS YOU'RE BECOMING TOO STRICT.
BECAUSE WE HAVE, I MEAN, WE HAVE RULES IN THE TOWN CODE, BUT WHAT WE CAN AND CAN'T DO, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS CONVEY THAT TO THE PUBLIC IN A NON-LEGAL WAY.
AND ALSO CARVE OUT, DID WE SAY BAR REVIEW THEN? OR BAR DECISIONS, REVIEWING DECISIONS, MAYBE DECISIONS TO UM, TO TOO
[01:25:01]
AGGRESSIVE OF A WORD BECAUSE, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE, IT'S NOT, I MEAN WE'RE, WELL, YEAH, YOU COULD SAY IN ITS REVIEWS, THE BAR SHALL RECOGNIZE THAT THE DISTRICT'S, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS, WE DON'T MAKE DECISIONS.THAT WAS ANOTHER PART OF THIS WHOLE PROCESS WAS MAKING THE GUIDELINES MORE DECLARATIVE.
REMOVING EVERY TIME IT SAYS SHOULD IT'S A SHALL.
SO, SO THE, THE BOARD IS MAKING DECISIONS, BUT THE ZONING BOARD HAS TO, HAS TO, UM, FOLLOW UP ON THAT.
ZONING ENFORCEMENT HAS TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE DOING WHAT? WELL, IT HAS TO MEET THE ZONING ORDINANCE REQUIREMENTS.
IF WE SET, IF WE APPROVE AN APPLICATION FOR WOOD PICKETS AND THEY PUT A FINAL, THAT'S, THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR ZONING ENFORCEMENT.
I'M SLOWLY UNDERSTANDING IT ALL.
AND, AND WE'RE WORKING ON CHANGE, LIKE CHANGING THAT.
PLANNING COMMISSION IS, OH, WE'RE REWRITING THE ZONING
I'M GOING THROUGH THAT LINE BY LINE.
AND THEN WE'LL BE DOING A SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
SO COUNTY, THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP.
UM, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THEY'D LIKE TO ADD BEFORE WE ADJOURN? WE WERE SUPPOSED TO ELECT A VICE CHAIR, RIGHT? I'M POINTING AT YOU.
I SAID YOU ALREADY HAVE MY VOTE WAS VICE CHAIR.
SO THAT'S WHY WE COULDN'T MEET LAST MONTH WHEN YOU WEREN'T HERE.
SO WE DIDN'T PUT IT ON THE AGENDA.
SO I THINK BEING THE FIRST MEETING OF, OF THE TWO NEW PEOPLE THAT TALK ABOUT THIS, THINK ABOUT IT FOR THE NEXT MEETING.
AND ALSO FEBRUARY IS OUR ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING WHERE WE ELECT A NEW WE ELECTED CHAIR AND A VICE CHAIR.
SO YOU DON'T WANNA WAIT? MAY JUST WANNA WAIT UNTIL FEBRUARY.
BUT YOU ALL NEED TO THINK ABOUT IT AND DISCUSS.
DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO OUR OPERATION? IF WE HAVE A ACTING VICE CHAIR, DO ANYTHING FOR US.
DELIVERY INTACT IS THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD REALLY, THAT'S WHY THE ONLY BENEFIT IT WOULD BE IS IF HE COULD NOT MAKE THE NEXT MEETING.
WHICH AT THAT MEETING YOU COULD HAVE, YOU COULD ELECT AN ACTING CHAIR YET.
SO, SO, SO DO YOU, SO RIGHT NOW WE DO, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY APPLICATIONS TO COME FOR JANUARY.
SO YOU WANNA HOLD A WORK SESSION IN JANUARY? DO YOU WANNA KNOCK BACK THE TIME TO LIKE FIVE 30 OR FIVE OR SIX VERSUS SEVEN? YEAH.
WELL YOU GUYS, THAT'S MORE CONVENIENT FOR YOU GUYS.
I MEAN, IF IT'S CONVENIENT FOR YOU ALL, THAT'S GREAT.
IF IT'S NOT, WE'LL LEAVE IT AT SEVEN.
YOU GUYS DECIDE WHAT? WELL, SEVEN.
WE'RE WAY PAST NINE RIGHT NOW.
SO WE'RE LOOKING AT JANUARY 13TH, IS THAT CORRECT? UM, LEMME SEE HERE.
I'M OKAY TO START AT FIVE AND ANY TIME AFTER.
WHAT'S A GOOD, WHAT'S THE BEST TIME FOR YOU, DANIEL? I DON'T CARE.
SEVEN 30 TO FIVE WHILE WE'RE READY.
EVERYBODY GOOD? EVERYBODY ELSE GOOD WITH THAT? NO, AS FAR AS I KNOW, YES.
I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THE UM, APPLICATION THAT WE REVIEWED IN OCTOBER, THEY HAVE ALREADY MADE THEIR CORRECTIONS.
WHICH ONE WAS THAT? OH, OVER HERE.
CRESCENT, PEYTON, THE PORCH WITH THE RAIL OVER.
THAT'S ALL BEEN, THAT'S ALL BEEN DONE.
HE'S GONNA RESUCK THE WHOLE BACK OF THE HOUSE.
THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF WINDOWS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN FIXED.
THAT'S ANOTHER THING WE'RE WORKING ON CHANGING BECAUSE I'M NOT THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR OF THE DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR SAYS THAT'S ACROSS THE COURTHOUSE.
[01:30:02]
THAT'S IN THE WORKS ALSO.UM, SO I REACHED OUT TO LAUREN ABOUT THE SHARED GOOGLE DOC AND THE ANSWER IS, IT WAS SETTING IT UP, BUT THE SERVERS WENT DOWN AND NEEDED REBUILDING AND THAT BECAME THE PROBLEM.
HE HAS CENTER THE LINK, BUT THEY HAVE TO SEPARATE OUT THE BAR FROM PLANNING COMMISSION.
SO WE'RE GONNA GET IT FIGURED OUT THIS WEEK.
AND WE'LL TAKE CONNIE'S, YOUR DOCUMENT WILL BE THE STARTING POINT AND WHAT WE EDIT TONIGHT? YEAH, I'LL, THAT'S WHAT I'LL SEND OUT FOR THE JANUARY MEETING.
IT'LL HAVE THE MARKUPS AND THEN OVER TO THE SIDE IT HAS LITTLE BALLOONS WITH COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE.
AND WHAT WE WANNA DO, AND THIS IS EDITABLE BY ANYBODY THAT JOINS IT? WELL, NOT YET.
WELL, I MEAN THAT'S WHAT WE'RE AIMING FOR.
SO THAT WILL BE NOTED BY WHO MADE IT.
NOW THE OTHER THING WITH THE SHARED GOOGLE DOC, YOU WOULD HAVE TO USE YOUR TOWN EMAILS.
AND WELL, WE HAVE NOT EVERYBODY YET BECAUSE THERE WAS SOME LICENSING ISSUES.
SO, SO IT HAS NOT BEEN ABLE, LIKE THE NEW MEMBERS, I'M NOT SURE IF YOU HAVE OR NOT.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LOOK INTO.
WHAT IS THE APP
HOW DO I, IF I JUST ADD IT TO MY EMAIL? WELL, YOU WERE SENT THAT WITH PASSWORDS AND STUFF, BUT OKAY.
APPARENTLY I, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
I MEAN THAT WAS QUITE SOME TIME AGO.
AND, AND SO I'M GONNA HAVE TO CHECK WITH WITH IT ABOUT THAT AS WELL.
ABOUT ABOUT EMAILS, WHICH MEANS THAT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE HAVE TO GET GOOGLE.
WOULD HE STILL, IF HE HAS USES HIS TOWN EMAIL, HE DOESN'T NEED GOOGLE HIMSELF.
I DON'T WANNA, THEY JUST SAID TO USE WHATEVER SHARED DRIVE OR DOCUMENT THAT THEY'RE SET THAT SET UP.
THE EXCHANGE SOUNDS LIKE THEY CAN ACCESS THE DOCS IN HERE.
I WENT TO SEE SOMEBODY IN THE IT GOOD FOR CALLING.
I MEAN THEY SENT US INSTRUCTIONS, BUT I'M LIKE, DO IT, JUST ADD TO MY, I THINK I CAN ADD AN EMAIL TO MY MAC ACCOUNT.
IT SOMEHOW GOES, COMES IN MY INBOX INSTEAD OF WHEN I GO INTO MY MAIL APP.
IT'S SEPARATE FROM EVERYTHING ELSE.
AND THAT'S MY, LIKE ELLEN, I THINK WE EMAILED BOTH EMAILS TO YOU.
WELL THEN RIGHT NOW I, YEAH, WELL I, I TYPICALLY SEND IT TO YOUR TOWN EMAIL.
YEAH, BECAUSE IT WORK BECAUSE WE KNOW IT'S WORKING.
AND I NOTICED THE SIGNAGE PART IS PRETTY LENGTHY.
I MEAN THAT WAS, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GUIDELINES AND IT'S HUGE.
WHAT DO YOU SEE ON, AND YOU KNOW WHAT
HAVE RURAL, RURAL KING, BUT UM, OTHER PLACE EVER GROW WINDOWS.
WE HAD A, UM, WE HAD A INTERPRETIVE SIGN.
OH, BUT THAT WASN'T A BUSINESS SIGN.
CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR FIRST, LET ME TURN OFF THE.