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WORK SESSION[Planning and Zoning Work Session on November 19, 2025.]
OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF COUNTER FRONT ROYAL WILL COME TO ORDER ON WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER.UM, STAFF, WOULD YOU LIKE TO EXPLAIN TO US THE, I NEED TO DO A ROLL CALL.
UM, UH, MS. LAUREN, CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US THE NEW GIS WORK AND BACKBONE THAT WE HAD REQUESTED AT THE LAST SESSION? OKAY.
UM, DO YOU NEED THIS? I JUST NEED BOUNCE AND I NEED TO GET CLOSE BECAUSE YOU CAN.
THESE WERE IS THAT WE HAD REQUESTED BECAUSE IN OUR LAST SESSION WHEN WE WERE GOING CHANGES, WE WERE, WE WANTED TO SEE THINGS WHERE, OKAY, SO WHAT I CAN DO IS JUST KIND OF GO THROUGH, I'LL GO THROUGH THESE MAPS, BUT, UM, WE HAVE A NEW GIS COORDINATOR, UM, AND HE WAS ABLE TO KIND OF DO SOME OF THE ANALYSIS THAT, UH, WE WEREN'T REALLY ABLE TO DO WHEN THE ZONING ORDINANCE WAS BEING OR DRAFTED.
SO WHAT HE DID FOR US IS, IN EACH OF THE RESIDENTIAL ZONES, HE LOOKED AT HOW MANY PARCELS, UH, IN, WITHIN THE TOWN HAD THAT DESIGNATION, THAT ZONING AND DESIGNATION.
HE LOOKED AT THE AVERAGE, UM, LOT SIZE AND THEN, UM, COUNTED UP THE NUMBER OF PARCELS.
SO FOR R ONE A, UH, WE HAVE 737 PARCELS AND THERE ARE 10 MILLION SQUARE FEET OF THE TOWN IS BASICALLY, SO R ONE A AND THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE IS 14,874 SQUARE FEET.
UM, I'M JUST LOOKING ON, UM, THE AGENDA THAT WAS SENT OUT.
I THINK I'M LOOKING AT THE WRONG NO, YOU LOOKING AT IT WAS A BOX IN THE CORNER.
WELL, EXCEPT FOR THAT IT SAYS R TWO PARCEL AREA 10,962.
THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING THAT, YEAH, DOWN THE BOX, OUT AT THE BOTTOM.
BUT I WOULD RECOMMEND TO GO DOWN AND LOOK AT THAT, THAT, THAT INFORMATION PUT PAGE 30.
I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS A TYPO THERE, BUT IT'S, YEAH, THERE IS A TYPO ON THE ONE PAGE.
THE RA SO ZONING OVERVIEW SHEET.
SO THEN WE, WHEN WE, HE LOOKED AT HOW MANY OF THOSE LOTS ARE NON-CONFORMING? SEVEN OUT OF THOSE, WHAT? 737 LOTS ARE CONSIDERED NON-CONFORMING, MEANING THEY DON'T MEET THE STANDARDS THAT CAN BE FOR ANY REASON.
UM, AND THEN OF THE NON-CONFORMING PARCELS, THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE THERE IS 3,774 SQUARE FEET.
THAT WAS, UH, THE PORTION OF TOWN OVER BY LIKE THE SOCCER PLEX CURVE FOOT, UM, GOING THROUGH, WHAT IS THAT WEST MAIN? UM, AND THEN OVER ON THIS PORTION OF TOWN WE HAD EIGHT NONCONFORMING PARCELS.
UM, AND THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE THERE IS 5,277 SQUARE FEET.
SO HE'S JUST GIVING YOU DIFFERENT METRICS TO KIND OF LOOK AT.
SO WHEN WE'RE HAVING THAT DISCUSSION OF DO WE NEED TO CHANGE SETBACKS OR CHANGE THESE STANDARDS, THEN WE START THINKING, ARE WE CHANGING STANDARDS FOR WHAT, 15 LOTS? OR, YOU KNOW, IS THIS, THAT'S WHERE THIS IS COMING FROM.
UM, THEY'RE GONNA ORDER THEY'RE IN ORDER.
SO THEN WHEN YOU GET TO R TWO, UM, SO THIS IS THE OVERVIEW I THINK JUST POPPED UP
SO R TWO, UM, THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE IS 11,626 SQUARE FEET.
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YOU CAN SEE, THAT'S MOSTLY OVER TOWARDS AVTEC.THERE'S A LITTLE BIT RIGHT ADJACENT TO, UH, RMA AND THEN YOU'VE GOT A SMALL SECTION HERE, I THINK THAT'S LIKE NEAR PEACHTREE COURT AND IT BACKS UP TO THAT, UM, THAT COMMERCIAL, UH, CONDOMINIUM COMPLEX WE HAVE WHERE LIKE CVS IS AND THERE'S A
AND THEN EVERYTHING UP, UM, ALONG STRASBURG ROAD AND DOCK STREET, WE HAVE A LOT OF R TWO.
SO WHEN YOU GET TO THE NONCONFORMING PIECES FOR R TWO, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE 45 THAT ARE UNDEVELOPED, NON-CONFORMING R TWO PARCELS.
UM, AND I'D SAY, LET'S SEE, 2011, SO THE BULK OF THEM ARE OVER THERE TOWARDS AB TEXT.
YOU'VE GOT A COUPLE PIECES OVER HERE NEAR THE, UM, BEING B CROSBY STADIUM AND A FEW OF THEM UP NEAR THE OLD HOSPITAL.
SO HERE, DOES THAT ALL MEAN THAT THEY'RE ALL UNDEVELOPED? THESE ARE UNDEVELOPED.
NON-CONFORMING, MEANING IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO DEVELOP THESE PARCELS.
SEE WHAT I'VE CLICKED WHEN I HAVEN'T, IT'S JUST GO TO THE RIGHT OF THE TAB AND IT'S, THE NEXT ONE WILL BE R THREE TO THE RIGHT OF IT.
UM, THE R THREE IS OUR DOWNTOWN, LIKE THE HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL AREAS, UH, LIKE WHERE THE MOOSE LODGE IS, YOU'VE GOT SOME ON, UH, WESTMINSTER, JOHN MARSHALL OFF OF KAISER AND BEHIND, UH, THE SHOPPING CENTER THERE ON SOUTH STREET, UM, WHERE THE NURSING OFFICE WAS AT COMMONWEALTH RIGHT ALONG, UM, HER FOOT THERE AND JUST KIND OF FOLLOWING, UM, UH, WAS AT NORTH ROYAL AVENUE.
SO WE HAVE 1,885 PARCELS THAT ARE ZONED R THREE AND THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE THERE IS 9,765.
AND SO OF THOSE 1800, 117 ARE UNDEVELOPED AND THEY'RE NON-CONFORMING.
AND THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE OF THOSE UNDEVELOPED PARCELS IS 3,765.
UM, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE, YOU'VE GOT A PRETTY EVEN DISTRIBUTION, UM, OF NON-CONFORMING PARCELS OVER HERE ON THE SOUTH END OF TOWN, NEAR SOUTH ROYAL AND, UH, JOHN MARSHALL AND THEN UP HERE WHERE AT KENDRICK LANE, UM, INTER SIX, WHAT IS THAT SIXTH STREET THERE? WE GOT A FEW UP HERE NEAR THE OLD HOSPITAL.
SO PART OF THIS WAS TO GAUGE HOW BIG A PROBLEM THIS REALLY WAS IS DOES A WARRANT CHANGE IN THE ENTIRE REGULATION TO TAKE CARE OF SOME NUMBER OF UNDEVELOPED PARCELS OR WOULD IT BE BETTER TO HAVE THE LEAVE REGULATIONS NOT FOR THEIR SAKE AND JUST PUT BUILD IN EXCEPTIONS INTO THE CODE WHERE, UM, UH, LAUREN, JOHN, SO WOULD HAVE, UH, DISCRETION TO A CERTAIN EXTENT TO ALLOW CERTAIN SETBACKS TO BE RELIEVED.
AND THERE'S A LATER ON HERE, THERE'S ANOTHER BY UP TO 25%, BUT KEEP KEEPING IN IN MIND.
SOME LOTS ARE JUST UNDEVELOPED.
THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO WITH IT.
AND YOU COULDN'T, AS JOHN HAD SAID, COULDN'T PUT A BIRD HOUSE ON IT BY TIME, GOT SETBACK.
SO, BUT THAT'S JUST TOUGH LUCK.
BUT THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE JUST MARGINALLY THAT DEPENDING ON WHERE IT IS AND BY INSPECTION BY THE, THE TOWN COULD BE DEVELOPED.
AND WE HAVE A TOTAL OF WHAT, 177 THEN A UNDEVELOPED NON-CONFORMING PARCELS.
UM, AND PER LOOKING AT WHAT ABOUT 700,000 UH, SQUARE FEET FOR THAT TOTAL AREA PERCENTAGE WISE, THIS IS SUCH A SMALL NUMBER AND YOU KNOW, I KNOW WE HAD SPOKEN BEFORE ABOUT THERE BEING SOMEBODY WHO'S LOOKING, WHO EITHER ISN'T
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REDEVELOPING OR IS IS ME BUILDING SOMETHING, HE HAPPENS TO HAVE SIX LOTS NEXT TO EACH OTHER SO YOU CAN PUT THEM TOGETHER AND, YOU KNOW, MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF IT AND HOW, YOU KNOW, IS IT BALANCED? IS IT FAIR TO SAY TO OTHER PEOPLE, WELL HOPE YOU ALSO HAVE SIX.UM, YOU KNOW, AND I I THINK THIS KIND OF GOES BACK TO WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LAST TIME, WHERE IT'S, YOU GUESS YOU WANNA BE FAIR TO THOSE PEOPLE, BUT FAIRNESS ALSO GOES BOTH WAYS.
AND WE HAVE TO ALSO THEN SEEK TO PROTECT WHAT'S THERE AND NOT BE, AND NOT, YOU KNOW, ACROSS THE BOARD SLASH THINGS THAT COULD END UP CAUSING PROBLEMS DOWN THE LINE.
ESPECIALLY IF IT'S TOO AGGRESSIVE RIGHT AWAY.
WHEN IT COMES TO EXCEPTIONS THAT ARE BEING ALLOWED IN.
I MEAN, FOR R ONE A, LEMME JUST REMIND MYSELF, I HAVE A NUMBER IN MY HEAD, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE I'M, I'M CORRECT BEFORE I SAY ANYTHING.
SHOULD I SCROLL FOUR
OH WAIT, DID I SKIP? I MUST HAVE, I DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS ALL CROSSED OUT.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS ALL ACROSS SOMEWHERE.
YEAH, THAT WAS, I THINK, UM, THAT WAS THE WAY IT WAS WHEN THIS ORIGINALLY WAS OPEN.
IT WAS JUST, I THINK TO NOTE THAT WE REVIEWED IT, UM, BEFORE.
YEAH, WE ONLY STARTED USING THIS, UH, IN THE LAST WORK SESSION WHERE WE STARTED.
UM, YEAH, SO COVERAGE, ALL RIGHT, SO WE HAVE LIKE OUR CLUSTER STANDARDS WITH A MINIMUM LOT SIZE OF 5,500.
AND IF PEOPLE ARE GOING BY CLUSTER AND R ONE A, THEN IF THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE THERE FOR THESE NON-CONFORMING IS 4,500, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO WE WANT THAT EXCEPTION TO LOOK LIKE? IF WE WERE TO PUT EXCEPTIONS INTO THE CODE, I GUESS IS MY QUESTION.
YOU KNOW, SHOULD IT BE JUST APPLY FOR ONE AND YOU KNOW, WE'LL SEE OR SHOULD IT BE LIKE UP TO A CERTAIN AMOUNT AND YOU KNOW, CERTAIN THINGS HAVE TO BE PROVEN THAT ALTHOUGH THAT WITHOUT THIS EXCEPTION, THIS LAW IS UNDEVELOPABLE AND AS WE'LL GET INTO THE NEXT SECTION THAT'LL HELP ADDRESS SOME OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
TRYING TO ADDRESS THAT BY GIVING METHODS TO DO THOSE EXCEPTIONS.
AS OPPOSED TO JUST CHANGING THE GENERAL RULE.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE NEXT SECTION.
IS THAT IN THIS DOCUMENT? NO, THAT'S IN, IT'S ONE OF THE DOCUMENTS THAT WE, IN THIS, IN THE PACKAGE.
I WASN'T SURE IF THIS ONE HAD ALSO BEEN UPDATED OR NOT.
THAT HASN'T, THIS IS A NEW, THIS IS BE A NEW ORDINANCE.
I, I BROUGHT, I HAVE THE WORD DOCUMENT OF WHAT HE SENT OUT WITH ALL THE CHANGES FROM THE LAST MEETING.
IS THAT WHAT YOU, THAT IS WHAT YOU BROUGHT? NO, I, SO I BROUGHT UP THE ONE THAT JUST HAD THE THIS ONE.
SO GO TO, IS IT THE OTHER ONE HERE? OH, SORRY.
BUT THAT DOESN'T, WE, SINCE THIS IS UNAPPROVED, I DIDN'T ADD IT TO THE DOCUMENT.
THIS IS A NEW GO NEW ABUSE REGULATION.
SO IT'S GONNA BE, UM, IS IT THIS ONE? UH, YEAH, CLICK NO, I GO TO THAT.
IT'S THIS, WHAT, WHAT I DID IS I TOOK ALL THE WORK FROM THE TWO WORK SESSIONS OR THREE WORK SESSIONS AND PUT 'EM ALL TOGETHER INTO ONE DOCUMENT.
SO IT HAS EVERYTHING FROM R ONE ALL THE WAY DOWN WITH ALL THE, WITH THE, UM, PROPOSED CHANGING.
SO THIS HAS ALL THE CHANGES THAT HE COMBINED FROM THE LAST TWO.
BUT THIS OTHER DOCUMENT TALKING ABOUT'S CALLED DEVELOPMENT OF UNDERSIZED CONSTRAINED LOTS.
AND THAT'S ANOTHER ONE OF THE ONES IN THAT EMAIL THAT I THINK YOU'VE ALREADY BROUGHT UP.
AND THAT WOULD BE THE, THE NEXT SECTION AFTER WHAT LAUREN JUST WENT THROUGH.
DO YOU WANNA GO ONTO THAT LAUREN? I THINK THAT'S A GOOD, IT JUST FLOW INTO THAT.
SO IT'S UP THERE SOMEWHERE
IT WOULD BE A WORD DOCUMENT THAT YOU I'M SORRY, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING WORD DOCUMENT.
WAS IT AN EMAIL FROM YOU THERE? UM, ALL THE ONES THAT YOU HAD OPENED BEFORE WE STARTED.
ARE YOU LOOKING FOR THE MAPS? NO, NO.
ALL I OPENED WERE THE MAPS TO MAKE SURE ALL THE MAPS ARE, THERE'S A WORD DOCUMENT IN THERE CALLED USE, UM, DEVELOPMENT OF UNDERS SIZEABLE.
AND THAT'S IN THAT SAME PLACE THAT YOU JUST WENT TO? YES.
USE REGULATION FOR LOT EXCEPTION.
SO THIS IS THE PROPOSED USE REGULATION.
IT WAS IN THE PACKAGE WHEN IT WENT OUT, BUT JUST GIVE YOU A SECOND TO READ IT.
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UH, RATHER THAN, RATHER THAN WHOLESALE CHANGE REGULATION, GIVE FLEXIBILITY TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING.SO RIGHT NOW WE HAVE THE ABILITY IN THE R ONE ZONE, WHAT DID, YEAH.
TO BASICALLY DO AN ADMINISTRATIVE VARIANCE FOR UP TO 20% OF LENGTH LOCK WIDTH.
UM, WHERE IS IT? FRONT SETBACK ALSO? UH, NO, JUST CURRENTLY.
SO THIS WOULD PROVIDE US A LITTLE BIT MORE FLEXIBILITY WITH SOME OF THESE NON-CONFORMING LOTS TO RENT IT UP TO 25% BUT ALSO EXTEND IT TO ALL OF THE RESIDENTIAL ZONES, NOT JUST BOTTOM ONE.
AND IT APPLIES ONLY TO THOSE UNDERSIZED AND NO CONSTRAINED LOTS.
NOT TO ALL LOT THE NONCONFORMING, I APOLOGIZE AND I WAS LOOKING THROUGH THIS EARLIER.
I WENT FROM THE MAPS AND I SAW A WORD DOCUMENT WENT.
THAT'S WHAT WE LOOKED AT BEFORE.
SO THIS WAS A WAY OF ADDRESSING THAT RATHER THAN CHANGING THE CODE FOR EVERYTHING.
GIVING AN EXCEPTION OF DOING THAT JUST ON THE LOTS.
AND THERE'S A PERCENTAGE OF THOSE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PERCENTAGE IT IT WAS OR THAT WAS SOMETHING IT LOOKED AT, BUT THERE'S SEVERAL NOT IN SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF LOTS THAT WON'T BE ABLE TO BE DEVELOPED.
AND I KNOW THAT STINKS FOR THE OWNER IF THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT, BUT IT JUST, YOU HAVE TO TAKE IN CONSIDERATION ALL THE PEOPLE AROUND ALL THE OTHER THINGS TOO.
SO YEAH, I REALLY LIKE HAVING HERE THAT THE LOT MUST BE IN A SEPARATE OWNERSHIP AND NOT CONTIGUOUSLY ADJACENT LAW UNDER THE SAME OWNERSHIP THAT COULD BE COMBINED.
I THINK IT'S A FANTASTIC ONE TO HAVE THEM THERE HAVE SIX LOT IF THEY HAVE A WAY OUTTA IT.
SO, SO THIS HAS TRULY BE A HARDSHIP, NOT SOMETHING THEY CREATED THEMSELVES.
IT'S TYPICALLY NOW WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS WHEN THEY COME IN AND THEY'VE BOUGHT US ALL THESE MODELS, THEY'VE GONE TO MULTIPLE OWNERS, BUT THEY GOT THE NEEDS TO DO IT.
SO WHEN YOU GO AND BUY EIGHT PARCELS, YOU'RE ABLE TO BUILD A LOT OF TOWNHOUSES.
SO, AND IF WE DO THIS, THEN WE HAVE A DIFFERENT WAY OF LOOKING AT THESE PROPOSED CHANGES AND SETBACKS THAT HAVE BEEN THERE.
INSTEAD OF SAYING WE'RE DOING IT FOR THESE NON-CONFORMING LAWS, WHAT WE'RE DOING IT FOR IS A MORE PROGRESSIVE STANCE.
IS THIS THE WAY WE WANT TO BE GOING FUTURE FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS? MM-HMM
BY CHANGING SETBACKS AND SO ON, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO ADDRESS NON-CONFORMING LAWS.
MOST OF THESE THAT WE'VE COME ACROSS, LIKE WE'VE HAD MAYBE TWO OR THREE THAT WERE, THEY BOUGHT IT FROM TAX SALES FROM THE COUNTY AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T HAVE PROPER ACCESS OR LIKE, IT'S JUST LIKE A PIECE SUBDIVIDED OFF WAY BACK WHEN AND THIS IS WHAT'S LEFT.
SO THIS IS PRETTY, PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD AND THEN IT'S JUST, YEAH, LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S JUST TAKING WHAT A BIT EFFECTIVELY CURRENT MEAN IT'S UP TO 25 INSTEAD OF 20%.
AND THAT'S JUST AN ADMINISTRATIVE THING.
AND IT'S ALSO SAYING THAT SOMEONE WANTS TO PASS THAT, THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO APPLY AND GO THROUGH, GO TO THE BBA.
BUT IF B-B-C-A-I, THEY'RE ASKING FOR, THIS IS BASICALLY ADMINISTRATED THERE.
SO I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A TOWN COUNCIL WANTED GO BEYOND THAT.
WELL, IF IT'S A VARIANCE, IT WOULDN'T BE A SPECIAL USE.
WELL CALLING IS THAT MR. YOU WOULD YES.
UH, SPECIAL EXCEPTION OR VARIANCE? WELL, I WOULD ASSUME YOU NEED TO REVISE 1 7 5 1 28.
SHOULD I MAKE THAT A NOTE ON THIS? UM, THAT ADDRESS IS NONCONFORMING LOTS OF RECORD.
THAT'S WHY WHEN ADVANCE HAVE THE WORD DOCUMENT, YOU CHANGE IT HERE TO WHAT SHOULD BE IF THERE'S, WELL, A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS NOT A VARIANCE.
THEY'RE TWO SEPARATE THINGS UNDER STATE CODE.
UM, VARIANCES ARE DETERMINED BY THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.
UM, A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS LEGISLATIVE THAT WOULD GO TO TOWN COUNCIL.
SO, UM, THERE ARE SOME ADMINISTRATIVE VARIANCES.
IN OUR CODE THERE ARE ADMINISTRATIVE VARIANCES, BUT SO WHAT WOULD THIS FALL UNDER? WHERE YOU, WHAT DOES IT FALL UNDER IN R ONE? RIGHT NOW, THE 20%, IT'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE VARIANCE, BUT WOULD I THINK IT WOULD FALL UNDER A NONCONFORMING LOT SECTION.
IT'S UNDER, UNDER ONE RIGHT NOW.
BUT, UM, WHAT'S THE PROPER PHRASING FOR THIS WHERE
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JOHN OR I RIGHT NOW WOULD HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO, CAN YOU TURN TRACK, DEVIATE A LITTLE BIT FROM, OH, I'M SORRY.I THOUGHT IT WAS, I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST TURN, BUT THEN A SAYING IF IT'S GONNA GO FURTHER THAN IT WOULD GO VIA SPECIAL EXCEPTION OR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S, YEAH, NO, I THINK, I THINK IT'S A VARIANCE TO THE BZA.
YEAH, IT'S A VARIANCE TO THE BZA.
SO WHAT, WHAT SHOULD WE, WHAT SHOULD THIS LINE SAY? SO STRIKE SPECIAL EXCEPTION AND UM, BASICALLY ANYTHING BEYOND THAT, 25% WOULD NEED TO GO TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS.
IT WOULD BE A VARIANCE APPLICANT VARIANCE.
IT'S NOT ADMINISTRATIVE ANYMORE.
IT'S JUST A VARIANCE GRANTED BY THE BOARD OF ZONING, THE APPEAL.
SENIOR ADMINISTRATIVE AUTHORITY.
WOULD IT BE A VARIANCE APPLICATION OR SOMETHING? OR, BUT, UM, RULE IT'S NOT AN APPEAL.
I SAY WE, THE, THE PROPER PROCEDURE IF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS DENIES IT IS GONNA GO TO COURT.
COURT THAT IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.
WELL E WHETHER IT'S DENIED OR APPROVED YEAH.
AND WE HAVE A PLACE TO SAVE THIS AS WE GO SAVE THIS.
I MEAN IF I HIT SAVE RIGHT NOW, THEN IT WOULD GO INTO SPECIFICALLY THE FOLDER THAT'S FOR THIS WORK SESSION.
IS THAT OKAY TO SAVE IT? SAVE IT OVER? YEAH.
'CAUSE I'M, I'M, I'M NOT, I HAVING TROUBLE FINDING THE DOCUMENT.
SO SAVE IT BECAUSE I'M, I DON'T HAVE IT AT THIS POINT.
WHEN WE'RE DONE I EMAIL IT TO US.
YEAH, EMAIL IT BEFORE LIKE YOU DID BEFORE
UM, SO THAT WAS, ANYWAY, THE ONE CHANGE HERE.
THAT'S THE, UM, UH, PROPOSAL TO HANDLE THIS.
WHAT, WHEN WE SAY, UM, WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES, ARE THERE OBJECTIVE METRICS FOR WHAT COUNTS AS ADVERSELY AFFECTING? UM, I MEAN, I WOULD ASSUME IT'D BE HARD TO HAVE OBJECTIVE METRICS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, AND WE'VE ALREADY SEEN, YOU KNOW, ON THIS COMMISSION, A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION ON WHAT HAVE YOU, HAVE YOU SEEN WHAT THEY DID IN FAIRFAX THAT MADE THE NEWS WHERE THEY'VE GOT A THREE LEVEL YES.
UM, ADDITION EIGHT AND A HALF FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, THAT WOULD, COULD POTENTIALLY BE A HARDSHIP TO THE NEIGHBOR.
UM, SO IT IS OBJECTED TO SOME, BUT IF YOU WOULD HAVE TO DO WITH THE 25% OKAY.
BY GRINDING, UH, THIS ADDITIONAL FEE, THESE, THESE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS NO LONGER WILL HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR BACKYARD.
WELL, THAT OBJECTIVE CRITERIA, OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK GOOD.
SAY SO IT WOULD HAVE TO, IT WOULD'VE TO BE ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE, UM, UH, ZONING.
IT, IT'D BE A VARIETY OF THINGS.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU WOULD DO IT.
YEAH, NO, I I'M JUST, I WAS JUST WONDERING WHAT THE, WHAT THAT CONSIDERATION WOULD BE OR WHO COULD, AS PART OF IT GONNA BE A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
BECAUSE SOMETIMES YOU, IF YOU HAVE A LOCK THAT HAS 15 SIDES YEAH.
AS OPPOSED TO ONE THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SHAPED LIKE A CIGAR MM-HMM
YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S GONNA DEPEND.
WE HAD A CASE WHEN I FIRST STARTED WORKING HERE, IT WAS THE LOT, I THINK TOWARDS
BUT BECAUSE THE NEIGHBOR'S LOT WAS NONCONFORMING, THE STRUCTURE WAS, HE THOUGH IT MET THE SETBACKS, IT WAS STILL GONNA BE LIKE 10 FEET OR SOMETHING FROM THE NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE.
BECAUSE THEIR HOUSE WAS, I THINK IT REDATED OR ZONING WAS VERY OLD.
UM, AND I REMEMBER THOSE NEIGHBORS COMING AND SPEAKING AGAINST IT SAYING IT'S GONNA NEGATIVELY IMPACT THEM.
BUT THIS HOUSE MET ALL OUR CRITERIA.
UM, SO THAT'S A TRICKY SITUATION.
THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE WOULD KIND OF CONSIDER, BUT, UM, THERE'S NO LOT OF THE METRICS WERE DETERMINING.
AND THAT, THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S LAYERED BECAUSE YOU'RE, AND THIS INSTANCE WOULD BE ASSISTING ONE PERSON WITH THEIR NONCONFORMING, BUT THEN HURTING SOMEONE ELSE WHO HAS A NONCONFORMING NATURE.
BUT YOU'RE NOT THE NATURE NOT PRI THEM OF THE USE OF THEIR PROPERTY, THE NEIGHBOR.
NO, BUT THEN ALSO WHERE ARE WE, YOU KNOW, WHERE, WHERE THE LINES, I DON'T KNOW.
I COULD SEE IT BEING LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE WINDOW TO WINDOW ABOUT, YOU KNOW, FOUR FEET FROM EACH OTHER.
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TECHNICALLY YOU'RE NOT HARMING THEM, BUT I AM MAKING IT.SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE YOUR BLINDS DOWN ALL THE TIME.
UM, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT ANYBODY WANTED TO COMMENT ON OUR NOTE HERE? I, UM, YOU HAD MENTIONED SPECIFICALLY WITH THE VARIANCE THAT THEN THERE MAY NEED TO BE RE WORDINGS DONE IN, I MEAN, I WOULD ASSUME THIS DEVELOPMENT OF UNDERSIZED OR CONSTRAINED LOTS OF RECORD WOULD, UH, MR. SONNET THAT WOULD, WE WOULD BE CHANGING 1 7 5 1 28, WHICH CURRENTLY IS NOW NONCONFORMING LOTS OF RECORD.
THAT'S WHERE THIS WOULD EITHER, WE NEED TO REVISE THAT WITH THIS PORTION IF THEY'RE SUGGESTING RIGHT THERE.
WE HAVE THE NON-CONFORMING SECTION I THINK WE'VE ALREADY DEALT WITH EARLIER THIS YEAR IN THIS DRAFT.
UM, WELL, I MEAN CURRENTLY ENTERED A SECTION THAT'S WHERE IT'S ADDRESSED UNDER NON NON-CONFORMING LOGIC RECORD.
SO THIS REVISION HERE WOULD, THAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING WOULD, YOU WOULD NEED TO LOOK AT THIS AND LOOK AT THAT ONE SECTION 1 7 5 1 28 AND AMEND THAT PORTION OR REPLACE, WELL ALL OF THIS IS GONNA REPLACE ALL OF 1 75 NOW.
SO WE GO BACK TO THAT, INTEGRATE THE ARTICLE THAT DEALT WITH NON-CONFORMING LOTS IN THE DRAFT, WHICH WE DID A BACK ON YEAR.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO OH, COMPARE THIS WITH THAT SECTION.
IT'S NOT GONNA BE A MAJOR CHANGE TO CEASE TO BE ADDRESSED.
THERE'S A SECTION IN THERE THAT ADDRESSES IT NOW THAT GOES TO TOWN COUNCIL.
UM, WE'RE NOT PIECEMEALING THIS, LIKE WE'RE NOT JUST ADOPTING THIS SECTION NOW, LIKE WE'RE NOT AMENDING OUR CURRENT CODE TO INCLUDE THIS, THIS WILL BE WHEN WE ADOPT THE WHOLE THING.
I'M JUST SAYING 1 7 5 1 28, WHICH ADDRESSES NONCONFORMING LOTS OF RECORD WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS SUGGESTING.
THIS NEW REGULATION NEEDS TO BE INTEGRATED INTO THAT OR REPLACE IT ENTIRELY HOWEVER YOU WANT TO.
THEY WANNA LOOK AT IT CURRENTLY NON-CONFORMING, LOTS OF RECORDS, 20% FOR R ONE ONLY, AND ANY RELIEF OTHER THAN THAT GOES TO TOWN COUNCIL AND THAT ONLY IS FOR THE R ONE.
SO IN THERE IT HAS THE RELIEF FOR THAT CONTINUING TO BE LEGISLATIVE AND GOING THROUGH TOWN COUNCIL AS OPPOSED TO THIS WHERE THE SUGGESTION IS TO GO TO THE B I'M GONNA HAVE TO LOOK.
WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK, I'M GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT.
A VARIANCE GOES TO VARIANCE DOESN'T GO TO TOWN COUNCIL.
UM, CURRENTLY IT, IT LISTED AS A SPECIAL PERMIT TO TOWN COUNCIL, BUT THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE THAT AUTHORITY SPECIAL PERMIT.
I MEAN, WE GO THROUGH A, A SPECIAL PERMIT GOES THROUGH PLANNING COMMISSION AND THEN COUNCIL.
BUT ARE WE, I'M NOT SURE HOW IT'S DRAFTED.
UM, I'M QUESTIONING, UH, A VARIANCE GOING TO TOWN COUNCIL IF THAT'S WHAT WE'RE CALLING IT, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT IT IS.
IF IT'S A DEVIATION FROM THE SETBACKS OR THE, THAT'S A, THAT'S A VARIANCE.
I'M NOT, I I'M, NO, I'M, I'M NOT, I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU.
I'M JUST SAYING CURRENTLY THE CODE SAYS A SPECIAL PERMIT BY TOWN COUNCIL.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE, WE HAVE TO SEE IF THAT WAS VETTED PROPERLY.
OH, WE SHOULD NOT USE THAT UNTIL I'M JUST, OKAY.
SO IT IS, SO THIS KIND OF TURNS INTO ACTION.
WHO'S MAKING THE NOTE OF SHE'S CATCHING THE NOTE.
SHE'S CAPTURED THE NOTE IN HERE.
AND, BUT THAT, SO, BUT IN PRINCIPLE EVERYONE'S OKAY WITH THIS REALIZING THERE'S OTHER CHANGES.
SO THIS WAS LIKE THE FIRST TIME WE EVER LOOKED AT THIS DOCUMENT WHEN WE HANDLED THE NONCONFORMING LOSS OF RECORD.
UM, SO THEY JUST TOOK 1 75 AND ONE, UH, 28 VERBATIM, AND THEN WE HAVE 1 29 IN HERE AND ONE 30 THEY JUST RENUMBERED IT AND THERE'S NO NOTES IN HERE,
[00:30:01]
UM, CHANGING ANY OF IT.SO OUR ENTIRE NON-CONFORMING CHAPTER IS IN HERE.
IT WAS JUST PLACED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DOCUMENT.
SO IT, IT SEEMS TO ME IF THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS LEANING THIS WAY, THEN WE NEED TO REVISIT THIS SECTION.
SO MAYBE WE SHOULD DO THAT AT THE NEXT SHORT SESSION AND STAFF CAN, WE CAN PLUG THESE TWO, WE CAN MERGE THEM TOGETHER.
AND THEN GEORGE, YOU AND I CAN SIT DOWN MAYBE NEXT WEEK WHEN YOU'RE NOT HERE.
WE'LL FIGURE OUT A TIME TO SIT DOWN AND THEN MAKE SURE THAT A VARIANCE IS A VARIANCE AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T BE GOING TO COUNCIL CONTROLLING COUNSEL.
I, I I TOTALLY AGREE THAT'S THE DIRECTION THE PLANNING COMMISSION WOULD LIKE TO DO ON THESE INSTEAD OF REDUCING THE SETBACKS TO DO AND ALL THE RE I THINK IT'S THE ONLY REASONABLE WAY TO APPROACH IT.
I MEAN, I MEAN, WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE NUMBERS, I THINK, I MEAN, JUST TO CHANGE THE PART OF THE CODE TO ADDRESS, UM, THESE, UH, VACANT LOTS.
I MEAN, WE ONLY HAVE VACANT NON-CONFORMING, VACANT NON-CONFORMING.
WE ONLY HAVE 15 IN THE R ONE A AND WE ONLY HAVE 45 OUT OF 832 IN THE R TWO.
SO, SO, SO INSTEAD OF CHANGING THE CODE TO ADDRESS ALL FUTURE LOTS AND EXISTING LOTS, WHY NOT JUST ALLOW FOR A VARIANCE FOR WHATEVER WE DETERMINE VARIANCE? WELL, WE WERE ADDRESSING IT THROUGH A NON-CONFORMING LAW OF RECORDS.
SO THAT, THAT, THAT'S THE, SEEMS TO BE THE BETTER APPROACH.
I MEAN, THE PLANNER AND ME STILL WOULD LOVE TO SEE REDUCED FRONT SETBACKS.
BUT THAT'S, THAT'S A, IT'S A DIFFERENT ARGUMENT NOW YEAH.
IS HOW ARE WE GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH OUR, AS OPPOSED TO TRYING TO SOLVE OLD, OLD WORLD PROBLEMS. SO YEAH, I DON'T, BUT I DON'T WANT YOU TO THINK THAT LIKE, REDUCING SOME OF THE SETBACKS IS, I DON'T WANT IT TO BE LIKE INOCULAR LIKE A BAD THING.
I THINK THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE IT'S APPROPRIATE AND THEN PROBABLY INSTANCES WHERE WE DID CUT SETBACKS THAT WE PROBABLY SHOULDN'T.
AND, AND THAT'S THE WAY TO LOOK AT IT.
I MEAN, IS THERE SOMETHING TO BACK UP THE NUMBERS THAT ARE GOING ALONG WITH IT THAT, THAT THERE'S A JUSTIFICATION OF THE NUMBER MM-HMM
I MEAN I THINK EVEN WITH THE ONES THAT WE DID LOOK AT, I, I THINK WITH, WITH A BIT OF A BIT OF AN EXCEPTION, I THINK MOST OF IT, WE STILL, AT LEAST AS OF LAST WORK SESSION, WE'RE IN AGREEMENT THAT REDUCING THEM SOME MADE SENSE BUT JUST NOT NECESSARILY AS FAR AS, AND THAT WAS PART OF THE COMMENTS.
AND THAT'S WHAT, AND THOSE CAME FROM.
SO WHEN OUR CONSULTANT DID THEIR GIS ANALYSIS, THEY DIDN'T TAKE OUT, UM, WHAT WE CONSIDERED NONCONFORMING AND THEY DIDN'T TAKE OUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS ALREADY DEVELOPED.
THEY JUST PULLED THE ZONE AS A WHOLE.
SO WE, THEY DID A VERY RUDIMENTARY GIS ANALYSIS.
WE CAN DO A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE, NOW THAT WE HAVE PROPERTY IN HOUSE, THEY ADDRESSED IT AS A BULK.
UM, BUT IT WAS, YOU KNOW, IT WAS BASED ON, OKAY, HOW DO WE JUST GET SOME KIND OF METRIC, SOME MM-HMM
SOME INFORMATION TO BASE THESE CHOICES ON.
AND THEN THE WHOLE THING WAS LIKE NEW URBANISM THAT WAS THE, OKAY, HOW DO WE ACHIEVE THAT GOAL OF LIKE TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN AND IF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS WHAT'S CHARMING AND WHAT PEOPLE LOVE, HOW DO WE MIMIC THAT IN THE OTHER ZONES? AND THE THOUGHT WAS, OKAY, LET'S CUT THE SETBACK.
SO THEY MIMIC HISTORIC WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT ITSELF.
MAYBE OUR, WE SHOULD BUILD, UH, SUBTERRANEAN PARKING.
IF YOU GO TO THE NUMBER UNDER A SENTENCE NUMBER THREE MM-HMM
IF YOU COULD, UH, CHANGE THAT WORD THERE TO BE COMBINED COULD BE COMBINED, COULD YOU CHANGE COMBINED TO CONSOLIDATED? BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA DO A LOT CONSOLIDATION.
IT'LL MATCH WITH, IT'LL MATCH WITH WHAT'S ALREADY IN THEREAND.
NO, NO, I JUST, THE SAME MEANING, BUT IT'S YEAH.
IT IS REFERRED TO AS A LOT CONSOLIDATION NO.
SO, SO THE TERMINOLOGY, UH, OKAY.
WHAT'S SO I'LL, LET ME JUMP IN ON THIS.
UM, THE PZA ISSUE REGARDING VARIANCE, UH, STATE LAW DOES STATE AS ONE OF THE B Z'S POWERS TO GRANT UPON APPEAL OR
[00:35:01]
ORIGINAL APPLICATION.YOU CAN GO TO, COULD BE AN APPEAL OF, OR JUST IN, OF A DENIAL OR IT CAN JUST BE AN APPLICATION FOR A VARI RIGHT.
BUT IT DOES NOT GO TO COUNSEL.
WELL IT CAN, I I'M GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT IT.
AND THAT, AND THEN WE CAN ADJUST THAT WORDING ON THAT SENTENCE BASED ON WHATEVER YOUR FINDING IS.
THAT SOUNDS SO WE'LL MEET BEFORE THE NEXT WORK SESSION.
HE'S SAYING, BOY, THESE GUYS ARE
WE WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT 1 75, 1 28.
I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT 1 28 TO 1 33.
THIS IS INEVITABLE BY GOING THROUGH THIS, OVER THIS PERIOD OF TIME, AS WE CHANGE THINGS LATER, THE DOCUMENT IS GONNA IMPACT SOMETHING OR THIS ISN'T, THIS IS INEVITABLE.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDED LIKE WE'RE NOT GONNA BE
NO, I MEAN, THAT'S A THING BECAUSE ONCE YOU START CHANGING SOMETHING IN THE CODE, THEN YOU REALIZE IT AFFECTS SOMEWHERE ELSE.
AND THAT'S, AND THAT'S THE TIME.
BUT THAT'S ALSO HOW WE GOT HERE IS, AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE CATCH IT CHANGE PIECEMEAL OVER THE YEARS.
AS LONG AS WE CAN ALWAYS BACKTRACK AND CORRECT THINGS THAT WE THOUGHT WERE CORRECTIVE, I WOULD RATHER THAT WE TAKE THE TIME.
AND BACKTRACK EVEN IF IT, UM, I HEARD THAT I REALLY WANTED TO GET THIS TO TOWN COUNCIL BY JANUARY.
YOU CAN TELL 'EM THAT THEY WON'T HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN ANYTIME SOON.
WELL, I'M SURE THAT THEY'LL SPEND THEIR OWN YEAR GOING OVER IT.
WELL, AND THEN BY THE TIME WE BUTTON THIS UP, WE'LL HAVE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE AND THEN WE'RE JUMPING RIGHT BACK INTO UPDATING THE COMP PLAN.
'CAUSE BY THEN WE'LL BE FIVE YEARS AND REALLY JUST LIKE HOW MANY COOKIES AND CUPCAKES AND
THOSE, IF THOSE UPDATES ALL COME WITH THE COOKIES, I I MIGHT BE ALL RIGHT.
UH, ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS ONE? OR SHOULD I, AM I GOOD TO CLOSE IT? I'M SORRY.
I WAS JUST ASKING IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS ONE.
AND THE NEXT THING IS THE, THE, UM, DEFINITIONS.
ALAN, CAN YOU, OH, WHICH, OKAY.
SO I HAVE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DUPLEXES AND TWO FAMILY
THIS, THIS CAME OUT OF, UM, THE, UM, LAST WORKING GROUP MM-HMM
WHERE WE'RE MISSING DEFINITIONS.
AND, AND OR WE, SO I HAVE TO CREATE THE FIRST THREE DEFINITIONS ON THERE ARE STRAIGHT OUT THE BOOK.
I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S NOTHING.
THE LAST ONE IS WHERE IT HAD A LITTLE BIT OF FINAGLING FOR SMALL SCALE MAKER SPACES.
AND SO THIS WAS FOR APPROVAL FOR THE GROUP.
AND THEN WE'LL ADD 'EM INTO OUR DEFINITIONS IF YOU AGREE.
DID YOU TALK ABOUT THE LAST SESSION WE DID? UM, APARTMENT UNIT AS BEING DIFFERENT THAN DWELLING UNIT? YEAH.
I DON'T REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT SMALL SCALE MAKER SPACES.
IT WAS, UH, IT'S YOUR HAVE THEM IN THE C ONE.
SO WE HAD, WHAT IS THAT? SO YOU GUYS DISCUSSED THESE ALREADY? MM-HMM
SO, BUT JUST JUST FOR THE APPROVAL TO SHOW THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS FOLLOW UP FOR, FOR THE LAST WORKING GROUP MEETING THAT WE DISCUSSED, THERESA'S GONNA ADD THESE INTO THE CHART.
OH, INTO THE, INTO THE, THE THE EXCEL SPREADSHEET.
WOULD YOU DO ME A FAVOR TOO AND SEND THAT BACK OUT? OH, VERSION.
MY HAVE, I KNOW MY VERSION'S OLD.
WHERE IN TOWN DO WE HAVE A SMALL SCALE MAKERSPACE ALREADY? WE DON'T.
UM, SO THE DEFINITIONS, HE THE DUPLEX TWO FAMILY DWELLING AND APARTMENT UNIT ARE STRAIGHT OUT OF, YEAH.
STRAIGHT OUT OF THAT BOOK OF THE DEVELOPMENT, THE DEFINITIONS.
SO THAT'S WHAT I GUESS CAME OUT OF.
IF I DIDN'T HAVE TO MAKE IT UP, I DIDN'T
SO A DUPLEX MEANS THEY'RE SIDE BY SIDE, BUT A TWO FAMILY DWELLING CAN BE ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.
THAT'S BASICALLY THE DIFFERENCE.
WELL, ONE CAN, LIKE A TWO FAMILY I THOUGHT IS ON THE SAME LOT, WHEREAS A DUPLEX IS ON THEIR OWN LOT.
BUILDING ON A SINGLE LOT CONTAINING TWO DWELLING UNITS.
[00:40:01]
SOME FORM OR FASHION.I THINK, I THINK THIS IS AN EASY ONE.
I DON'T EVEN HAVE TO SAVE ANYTHING.
I CAN, NEXT WE HAVE THE, THE ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES.
WHAT'S COMING UP? WHICH BE ANOTHER SECTION OF BE ADDED THE DOCUMENT GOING INTO, IS IT ALL OF THE RESIDENTIAL AND C ONE R TWO OR THREE C ONE P AND D-M-M-C-D.
WHAT'S MCD? THAT'S THAT MIXED.
SO THAT'S LIKE A, IT'S WHAT AP TEXT IS CURRENTLY ZONED.
RIGHT NOW IT'S, I THOUGHT IT WAS ZONED TO I TWO.
IT'S NCD CAN JUST, UM, LITTLE BACKGROUND.
I'M JUST, IF YOU LOOK AT THE UH, FIRST MAP.
YEAH, IT'S, I'M PULLING EXACTLY.
SO ANYTHING IN A TEXT WOULD NEED TO BE, THE MOUSE IS REALLY ONLY LIKE THE MOUSE OVER HERE.
WE'RE GONNA HEAR THE CLICK, RIGHT? YEAH.
LIKE THAT PURPLE COLOR I TWO IS LIKE A DARK NAVY BLUE.
SIDE NOTE WITH THIS, SINCE, UM, EVERYTHING ALONG THE WATERFRONT THERE, MOST OF IT ACCORDING TO THE COMP PLAN IS SLATED TO BE IN CONSERVATION ANYWAY.
UM, WE DON'T HAVE A ZONING DISTRICT FOR CONSERVATION RIGHT NOW.
THAT COULD ESSENTIALLY, I MEAN, WOULD THAT BE SUFFICIENT? BECAUSE THAT ALLOWS FOR BUILDING AND FOR DEVELOPMENT.
IT'S NOT CONSERVATION THAT, THAT LIKE I WOULD RECOMMEND ONE THAT IT GET DOWN TO BIG TIME AG, BUT TWO, I MEAN THE RESTRICTIONS AND COVENANTS ON THAT PROPERTY ARE OH FOR SURE.
BASICALLY MAYBE PUT A WALKING
AND WHICH I THINK WOULD BE GREAT.
AND I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE IN TOWN TALK ABOUT WANTING THAT.
I JUST SEE THESE SORTS OF THINGS AS POTENTIAL ISSUES THAT COULD BE EASILY NEGATED.
I MEAN ACROSS THE RIVER BY DOWN ZONE AGAIN WHERE I THINK IT'S, I MEAN WE'VE GOT IT IN WHAT LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL THERE.
UM, THAT THERE'S A CONSERVATION EASEMENT THERE, BUT THAT'S PRIVATELY, THAT'S PRIVATELY DONE.
I THINK FAMILY PUT ALL THAT INTO IT.
WOULD IT'S INTEREST TO GET A CONSERVATION EASEMENT IF WE WANTED TO.
THE PROPERTY OWNER COULD FOR IT.
I THINK CONSERVATION EASEMENT.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS IS LIKE, IT'S GOTTA BE LAND THAT'S WORTH CONSERVING.
NOT EVERY ONE THAT WANTS TO PUT THEIR PROPERTY IN A CONSERVATION EASEMENT.
IT, IT'S DESIRABLE LAND FOR IT.
THAT, THAT AREA THERE IS, I FEEL LIKE ONE OF THE MOST SCENIC AND BEAUTIFUL SPOTS.
IT IS STUNNINGLY BEAUTIFUL OUT THERE.
IT THE 360 WHEN YOU'RE OUT THERE, IT'S BEAUTIFUL.
WELL THAT'S WHY YOU JUST DON'T EAT ANYTHING YOU CATCH OUT OF RIVER.
SO WOULD IF, IF THAT WAS TO BE LOOKED AT FOR DOWN ZONING, I KNOW WE'LL MOVE ON FROM THIS.
UM, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD HAVE TO COME FROM COUNCIL OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE COULD SUGGEST TO COUNCIL, WOULD YOU SUGGEST TO DOWN ZONING, COULD PLANNING COMMISSION REQUEST THE DOWN ZONING OF TOWN COUNCIL OR REZONING ITSELF? CREATE IT OWN? SO WELL NO, THE CREEP JUST DOWNLOADED TO AG JUST DO OKAY.
AND THEN WE CAN LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE CONSERVATION LATER.
ESPECIALLY I THOUGHT YOU WERE TRYING TO GO STRAIGHT TO THE ATION.
THERE'S SOMETHING THAT AGRICULTURE POISON PLAN PROBABLY COULDN'T.
IT'S JUST, WELL, I MEAN AGRICULTURE, YOU CAN'T PUT CONSERV CONSERVATION AS AN INDUSTRIAL EITHER OR ESPECIALLY WITH THE ISSUES THAT IT CURRENTLY HAS.
SO IT WOULD PRODUCING RESULTS.
IF WE ANN ANNEX ANY PROPERTY OUTSIDE THE TOWN, IT'S AUTOMATICALLY AGRICULTURAL.
I MEAN THAT'S WHAT THIS, UH, EVERYTHING UP HERE THAT'S IN WHITE, THAT'S WHITE BAG IS AGRICULTURE JUST BECAUSE IT WAS, UH, ANNEXED.
SO THIS WOULD JUST BE PUTTING IT BACK ESSENTIALLY.
COULD WE SUGGEST THAT TO THEM? OH, OKAY.
[00:45:09]
I LOVE THE WAY WHAT YOU DID YOUR HAIR BY THE WAY.THIS IS AN EXCITING TIME TO BE HERE FOR ME.
I THOUGHT YOU MUST HAVE ABOUT IT.
IT LOOKS LIKE THE, IT LOOKS LIKE THE GOVERNING BODY INITIATES BY SENDING IT TO THE COMMISSION.
WELL SEE YOU COULDN'T GO TO ONE OF THEIR MEETINGS DURING THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION MAY DO THIS.
PLEASE GIVE THEM A RECOMMENDATION AND SEE WHAT THEY DO.
JUST OR EMAIL AND JUST PUT A BUG IN HERE AND SEE WHAT THEY THINK.
OH NO, GREAT CONGRATULATE METAL DETOUR THERE.
UM, BUT IS THIS IS LIVING FACILITY.
THIS CAME FROM, THIS IS EARLIER WORKING GROUPS WHERE WE HAD ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES SHOW UP IN A COUPLE OF SECTIONS, BUT IT WAS MISSING IN OTHERS AND IT WAS NOT DEFINED.
BUT NOW YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE REGULATION TO GO ALONG WITH IT.
THIS IS AN ATTEMPT AT REGULATION.
I NEED, I NEED TO EXPLAIN SOME BACKGROUND ON THIS.
'CAUSE UNFORTUNATELY IT'S NOT EASY.
UM, ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES ARE REGULATED IN, IN, IN THEMSELVES BY, UM, UH, SOCIAL SERVICES WHO REGULATED NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH NURSING HOMES, WHICH ARE REGULATED BY DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.
ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES, IN ORDER TO QUALIFY AS ONE, HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST FOUR RESIDENTS IN ORDER TO BE ASSISTED.
ANYTHING LESS THAN THAT, THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE.
THEY'RE GOING TO BE, THAT ANYTHING OF EIGHT OR LESS FALLS IN THE SAME PROBLEM WILL BE FOUND WITH ASSISTED WITH, UM, SPECIAL PURPOSE HOUSING WHERE IT'S FOR DISABLED OR FOR ELDERLY PEOPLE.
AND EIGHT OR LESS IS TREATED AS A RESIDENTIAL.
SO THEN WE GET INTO OTHER, OTHER CATEGORIES THAT GO ALONG WITH THIS.
SO NINE OR MORE SO TO SO TO SPEAK, IS REALLY WHAT THIS IS ADDRESSING.
NOW WE ALSO HAVE THE, UM, THE, UH, SPECIAL THOSE THAT ARE SPECIAL USE PERMIT OR THOSE THAT ARE BY RIGHT.
DEPENDING ON TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT THAT IS.
AND AS YOU GO THROUGH AND YOU LOOK, THEY TEND TO FOLLOW WHAT THE NURSING HOMES DO.
DON'T DISTRICT AFTER DISTRICT AFTER DISTRICT THAT THE ASSISTED LIVING FACILITIES TEND TO BE IN THE SAME, UM, DISTRICTS AS YOU FIND IN NURSING HOMES, EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE DIFFERENT SETS OF REGULATIONS.
AND UH, UH, SO, UH, ONE THING I HAVE ON HERE IS A NUMBER OF 30, UH, OH AS THE MAX, AS THE MAX FOUR.
THOSE THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED WITHOUT THE, UH, SPECIAL USE PERMIT OF GOING TO THE ZONE IN AND ONLY IN THOSE AREAS WHERE IT ISN'T SPECIAL USE PERMIT ONLY OR ALLOWED AT ALL.
THE R ONE IS NOT ALLOWED AT ALL.
BUT R TWO WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT R THREE BY RIGHT.
BUT IT MIRRORS EXACTLY WHAT OUR CURRENT CODE IS FOR NURSING HOMES IS WHAT THAT IS.
UH, 30 IS SOMEWHAT OF, I HATE TO SAY AN ARBITRARY NUMBER.
IT'S AN AVERAGE NUMBER OF WHAT OTHER FACILITY PLACES ARE DOING.
IT'S HARD TO PICK OUT WHAT IS THE MAGIC NUMBER THERE.
WHEN YOU TAKE 30 IN CONSIDERATION FOR THESE FACILITIES.
THEY'RE VERY INTENSIVE BECAUSE THEY'RE HEAVILY REGULATED, ESPECIALLY IN VIRGINIA, THEY'RE EXPENSIVE TO OPERATE.
SO ONCE YOU GET INTO AROUND 20 SOMETHING, THEY START BECOMING ECONOMICALLY VIABLE, YOU KNOW, AS A COMMERCIAL BUSINESS.
SO ANYTHING ABOVE 30, YOU START TALKING ABOUT R THREE AREA WHERE, OR R TWO, THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
THOSE ARE THINGS THAT COULD POSSIBLY FIT INTO THOSE AREAS.
ALL THE FACILITIES WE HAVE IN TOWN THAT WE FALL THAT ARE REALLY IN THE EIGHTIES AND NINETIES, WE DON'T HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN THE 30 OR LESS IN TOWN RIGHT NOW.
STRASSBURG THAT GOES ALONG WITH JUST FOR THICK, BUT I JUST WANTED TO GIVE A LITTLE, LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND THERE AS WE GET INTO THIS SUPER QUICKLY.
YOU SAID THAT IT'S CONSIDERED ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY ONCE IT REACHES A NO, NO, A ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY IS ITS OWN DESIGNATION AND THERE'S A, A WHOLE DEFINITION THAT GOES ALONG WITH WHAT THAT, WHAT THAT IS.
AND, BUT THERE'S A BIG VARIABLE IN THAT TOO.
IF YOU GO OVER BY, UM, WARREN COUNTY HIGH SCHOOL, THE ONE RIGHT OVER THERE.
IT'S BASICALLY A BIG BUILDING THAT'S ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY.
EVERYTHING IS WITHIN THE BUILDING.
BUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT AND A NURSING HOME IS NURSING.
UH, IT IS THE MEDICAL CARE ASSOCIATED AS OPPOSED TO TRAINED PROFESSIONALS THAT ARE HELPING
[00:50:01]
RIGHT.NO, AND UH, I WAS JUST GONNA SUGGEST POSSIBLY YOU UP WHERE WE HAVE IT LISTED OUT IN THE R TWO, R THREE C ONE, THE MC ZONING DISTRICT MM-HMM
JUST FOR THE SAKE OF POSSIBLE FUTURE CHANGES, IS THERE A WAY THAT WE CAN SAY SOMETHING TO MORE GENERIC SAYING IN THOSE DISTRICTS WHERE IT IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT.
DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? SO THAT LIKE, IF WE EVER GO BACK AND CHANGE OUR WHATEVER, OR WE SAY NO, WE'RE NOT GONNA ALLOW THEM IN C ONE ANYMORE AT ALL.
THEN WE HAVE TO REMEMBER TO CHANGE IT IN TWO DIFFERENT PLACES.
DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? I'M JUST LOOKING THINKING OF A MORE GENERIC WAY.
IT COULD, IT COULD BE PUT THAT WAY BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THESE USES ARE GONNA BE ADDED IN THOSE SECTIONS.
EACH ONE OF THOSE SECTIONS AS THAT.
SO YES, IT COULD BE GENERALIZED.
UM, YEAH, THAT I WAS JUST THINKING THAT JUST MIGHT HELP.
IS THAT WHAT YOU WELL, IN THAT CASE ACTUALLY YOU CAN JUST REMOVE THIS AND PUT AN ASSISTIVE LIVING FACILITY.
LIFE IS BY THE COMMONWEALTH SHALL BE PERMITTED EITHER BY RIGHT OR BY SPECIAL USED PERMIT.
YOU COULD JUST DELETE THE ZONING DISTRICT RELATIONS THAT WOULD DO THE SAME THING WHERE IT IS CERTAINLY, CERTAINLY
ONE OTHER THING I'M GONNA, OKAY.
I JUST, YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DESIGNATE THE MINIMUM NUMBER OF RESIDENTS FOR THAT.
THAT'S, IS THAT CONTAINED IN ITS LICENSURE OR, SO I'M SORRY, WERE YOU SAYING DOWN HERE? UM, IT'S VIRGINIA LAW REQUIRES THAT ZONING ORDINANCES CONSIDER THAT A RESIDENTIAL FACILITY IN WHICH NO MORE THAN EIGHT, UH, PURSUANT RESIDE, UH, AS A RESIDENTIAL OCCUPANCY BY A SINGLE FAMILY.
SO THAT WOULD BE MORE OF LIKE YOUR GROUP HOME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
ONCE IT IS OVER EIGHT AND VIRGINIA LAW SAYS NOW IT'S ASSISTED.
THAT'S, THAT'S, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I AND MAGIC NUMBER FOUR IS.
THE STATE SAYS NO, IT'S NOT ASSISTED LIVING UNLESS YOU HAVE AT LEAST FOUR PEOPLE.
SO THEY COULD NOT GET A LICENSE AS AN ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY WITH THREE PEOPLE.
I, I DON'T KNOW WHY
NURSING HOMES IS THREE PEOPLE INSTEAD OF FOUR.
WHY? I DON'T KNOW, BUT JUST WAIT A MINUTE.
WHERE, WHERE WE HAVE OUR DEFINITION OF ASSISTED
THAT'S OUR, THAT'S OUR TERM NURSING.
DO WE WANNA USE THE TERM NURSING SINCE THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT OH, YOU SAY NURSING ASSISTANCE? YEAH, THAT'S TRUE.
RESIDENTIAL FACILITY FOR TWO MORE PERSONS THAT PROVIDES NURSING ASSISTANCE AND OR SUPPORT.
WELL, BUT IF WE JUST ELIMINATE THE NURSING ASSISTANCE, BECAUSE I MEAN NURSING, WHAT'S THE, WHAT'S THE DEFINITION IN THERE? BE CAREFUL THE STATE TELL YOU THAT DEFINITION.
LET'S, LET'S MAKE SURE WE, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT CAME OUT OF THERE OR IT WAS A STATE DEFINITION.
BUT THERE MIGHT BE A REQUIREMENT IN THE STATE CODE THAT IT'S LIKE, UM, IT'S GOTTA BE PROVIDED BY LIKE A, A PROFESSIONAL LIKE HEALTH, LIKE A RESOLUTION.
THEY CAN'T PRESCRIBE MEDICATIONS, BUT THEY CAN MANAGE MEDICATIONS.
BUT YOU NEED A CERTAIN LEVEL OF LICENSURE TO DO THAT.
BUT THEY CAN, THEY CAN SAY, YOU KNOW, MS. MILLER, IT'S TIME FOR YOUR PILLS.
THEY KEPT GIVING YOU PILLS, BUT THEY CAN'T, THEY CAN'T GIVE YOU OXYGEN.
WELL, I GUESS IF YOU ALREADY HAVE OXYGEN, BUT THEY CAN'T PUT YOU, THEY DO HAVE A DEFINITION OF ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY.
PARDON? WHICH, WHICH DIFFERENTIATES THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN, WHAT'S IT SAY, JOHN, RESIDENTS WERE TO FRAIL ELDERLY TO PROVIDE ROOMS, MEALS, PERSONAL CARE AND SUPERVISION OF SELF ADMINISTRATIVE MEDICATION.
WELL, IN THIS DEFINITION WE HAD, IS THIS WHAT WE AGREED TO IN AN EARLIER GROUP? SO I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE, I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE WE CAME FROM.
NOW I'M JUST LOOKING AND FIND IT REAL QUICK.
THAT SHOULD BE, I MEAN, I'M JUST NOT, I'M GONNA STOP IT.
UH, THEN I THINK I MISSED A COUPLE COMMENTS.
THE MATRIX, IT SHOWS THAT IT, WE DID IT IS IN THE CURRENT ARTICLE DEFINITION.
IT'S THAT ONE THAT IT'S THAT ONE.
IT'S THE THE ONE THAT WE ALREADY GONNA DELETE.
IT'S THE ONE WE'RE GONNA DELETE.
[00:55:01]
WE NEED TO CHANGE IT IN NARRATIVE TO THIS.THAT'S, THAT'S A, THAT'S A BETTER DEFINITION.
DO I CHANGE IT NOW OR? WELL, THIS IS GONNA BE WHERE WE, WHAT, WHERE, WHAT DID WE, WHERE DID WE GET THERE? WE'RE NOT FOR ELDERLY.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIND.
BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THE STATE ALSO DEFINES ADULT DAYCARE ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY.
I MEAN, UH, WELL, ADULT DAYCARE IS NOT THE SAME AS AN ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY.
BECAUSE YOU, YOU SPEND THE NIGHT, YOU LIVE IN AN ASSISTED FACILITY.
UM, YEAH, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY BIT OF AN OVERSIGHT IN THAT BOOK THAT THEY SPECIFY BY THE TRAIL ELDERLY.
UM, AN BUT I ALSO THINK THAT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NURSING ASSISTANT, LIKE, OH, BUT IT'S MEDICATIONS IN AN ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY.
AND THIS MAKES SENSE NOW WHAT I RECALL AS WELL, IT'S SUPERVISION OF SELF-ADMINISTER MEDICATION.
THEY SAY, HERE ARE YOUR PILLS AND THEN YOU TAKE THEM, YOU TAKE THEM.
BUT THERE'S ALSO LIKE, THEY HAVE TO HAVE A CARE PLAN.
EACH PERSON LIVING IN A NURSING HOME OR AN ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY MM-HMM
THEY HAVE TO PUT TOGETHER A CARE PLAN.
THAT'S PART OF, THAT'S PART OF WHAT MAKES THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ACTUALLY IN STATE CODE THAT YEAH.
THIS, THIS, THIS IS ANOTHER, UM, SAYS ASSISTIVE MEANS ANY CONGREGATE RESIDENTIAL SETTING THAT PROVIDES OR COORDINATES PERSONAL AND HEALTHCARE SERVICES 24 HOUR SUPERVISION AND ASSISTANCE SCHEDULED UNSCHEDULED FOR MAINTENANCE OR CARE OF FOUR OR MORE ADULTS WHO ARE AGED OR INFIRMED OR HAVE THE DISABILITIES AND WHO ARE CARED FOR IN A PRIOR PRIMARY RESIDENTIAL SETTING.
I THINK THAT'S MORE INCLUSIVE THAN, YEAH.
I I, HERE TAKE A LOOK AT THIS ONE.
THIS IS WHY THE SYNOPSIS OUTTA OF THE STATE CODE.
I UNDERSTAND THAT SAYS
SO YOU'RE GOING WITH CONGREGATE OR YOU'RE CHANGING.
WELL I AM CHANGING A LOT OF THIS.
UM, THAT'S THINGS THAT THESE DEFINITIONS ARE EVER CHANGING WITH THESE NEW USES.
WHY SHE'S TYPING THAT IN THERE.
JUST WANNA MENTION, WENT THROUGH A WHOLE BIT OF HOW BIG THE MINIMUM SIZE HAS TO BE AND I SHOWED TWO AND A HALF ACRES ON THERE.
UM, IT SEEMED TO RUN FROM ONE TO THREE ACRES AND TRYING TO PICK, PICK WHAT WAS THE RIGHT SETTING FOR WAS ALMOST ARBITRARY IN THERE.
ULTIMATELY ENDED UP GOING BACK TO ONE AND A HALF.
I'D LIKE WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT, CHANGE THAT DOWN TO ONE AND A HALF.
OTHERWISE IT WOULD MAKE ONE OF THE ONES IN TOWN, UM, NON-CONFORMING.
AND I, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.
AND ONE AND A HALF WOULD STILL BE ADEQUATE FOR THE 30 PEOPLE BASED ON I WENT AND TOURED, UH, TOURED THAT ONE.
SO ONE AND A HALF, BUT I, WE KNEW IT WAS MORE THAN ONE LESS LESS THAN THREE.
AND SO ONE AND A HALF SEEMS TO BE ABOUT RIGHT NOW.
SO I JUST COPIED IT AS WRITTEN, BUT WE DO HAVE A COUPLE OF PROBLEMS. UM, ONE, THE STATE DEFINITION, UH, SAYS FOUR OR MORE AND WE'RE SPECIFYING EIGHT, NO FOUR OR MORE FOR THE, FOR THE DEFINITION OF OF ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY.
IF IT IS EIGHT OR LESS, IT HAS TO BE RESIDENTIAL.
AND THEN, UM, THE OTHER THING IS WHEN WE'RE SAYING OR WHO HAVE DISABILITIES MM-HMM
AND THEN WE JUST WENT AND DID ALL THAT SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE HOUSING, WHICH INCLUDES STUFF FOR PEOPLE FOR WITH DISABILITIES.
ARE THESE GONNA BE OVERLAPPED IN A WAY THAT WILL MAKE IT WORK? WELL ONE GOOD.
DEPENDS ON THE LICENSING, WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.
AND THAT'S THE REASON WE HAD EARLIER WHERE WE HAD TO GO BACK AND GO THROUGH IT AGAIN.
'CAUSE WE HAD TO ADD WORDING TO DEAL WITH THAT.
THEY MAY PROVIDE OTHER SERVICES, RECREATIONAL FINANCIAL TRANSPORTATION.
DO WE FEEL LIKE THAT'S, IT'S NOT A LAND USE.
IT'S, WELL IT'S NOT ABOUT THE LAND USE, IT'S ABOUT THE LAND, ABOUT THE DEFINITION.
UM, BUT IT IS TYPICAL AND IN FACT IS IT SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO INCLUDE IN OUR DEFINITION? 'CAUSE IT'S SAYING LIKE THEY MIGHT DO THESE OTHER THINGS, BUT YEAH.
AND THEY DO PHYSICAL THERAPY AND OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY.
THEY COULD DO LIST A MILLION THINGS.
THEY GO TO GOLF COURSE ALL WE KNOW.
UH, SO I MEAN I'M, I'M LEANING TOWARDS JUST
[01:00:01]
GOING WITH WHAT THE STATE SAYS AND JUST REMOVING.I THINK THE PARTING IS JUST REDUNDANT.
I DON'T THINK THAT ADDS ANYTHING.
IF YOU COULD JUST MAKE A NOTE WHERE THAT CAME FROM, THE DEFINITION.
IF YOU COULD JUST MAKE ANOTHER, AND WE GO BACK HERE KIND.
WE HAVE TO REVISIT THIS LOOK IN THAT CONGREGATE RESIDENTIAL SETTING HAS NOTHING TO DO ABOUT THE ZERO.
IT'S, IT COMES OUT OF THE, UM, 63.2 DASH 100, UH, 15 HOLD HOLD ON A SECOND.
I DIDN'T THINK, I, I DIDN'T THINK THE DEFINITION WOULD BE THERE REALLY WANTS TO BE, AND WHAT YOU SEE THERE, THAT R TWO AND R THREE P AND DC, THAT, THAT MIRRORS WHAT WE CURRENTLY DO UNDER NURSING HOMES.
BECAUSE, UM, IN THAT ONE WEIRD SECTION, 8.2 0.3 TEMPORARY TRAILER IS NON-RESIDENT USES.
IT IS LISTED IN NURSING HOMES THERE AS WELL.
I'M, I'M NOT EVEN SURE WE, WE'D HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE BIG DOCUMENT TO LOOK THAT UP.
NURSING HOMES AND TEMPORARY TRAILERS.
I REALLY DON'T KNOW IF I DIDN'T LIKE THAT.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GONNA BE CON EMTS A LOT.
UM, OKAY, SO, SO THIS SECTION IS JUST INFORMATIVE.
IT'S NOT ACTUALLY PROPOSED TO BE IN THE CODE.
IT, WHAT I WOULD DO IS WE WOULD PUT A LINE FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE, UM, UH, IN, IN THE CODE UNDER EACH SECTION FOR R TWO R THREE FACILITY.
WELL, I'M SAYING WOULDN'T BE FACILITY THIS SECTION, BUT OVER IN R TWO WE'D SAY SPECIAL USE PERMIT UNDER A COMMERCIAL SECTION.
YEAH, THIS IS JUST INFORMATIVE DUST.
THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE SAYING.
AND ALSO THE NOTE AT THE BOTTOM IN, IN R THREE, IT LOOKS LIKE NURSING HOME IS LISTED BY BY RIGHT.
I, WHEN WE GET TO THAT, LOOK AT R THREE AGAIN, WE TAKE A PEEK AT THAT.
ELLEN, WHAT'S A PER STACK SHIFT? BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS A PER PARKING SHIFT THAT A STAFF MEMBER WILL BE.
SO LIKE, SO IF YOU HAVE A ONE SPACE PER THREE RESIDENCE PLUS ONE SPACE PER STACK SHIFT, DOES THAT MEAN ONE PLACE SPACE PER STAFF PERSON PER SHIFT? PER SHIFT AND PER SHIFT? YEAH.
IT'S LIKE SAYING, UM, YOU KNOW, A TOTAL PROJECT WILL, A PROJECT WILL TAKE 40 MAN HOURS, BUT IT'S TWO GUYS.
SO THEY HAVE TO HAVE MANY PARKING SPACES AS THEY HAVE EMPLOYEES.
WELL, NO, IT WOULD ALLOW YOU TO REDUCE IT BECAUSE NOT EVERY EMPLOYEE IS GONNA BE THERE AT A, AT ALL TIME.
SO JUST STAFF SHIFT, IF THEY'RE WORKING STAFF SHIFT.
EITHER EIGHT HOUR SHIFTS OR 12 HOUR SHIFTS.
THEY'RE GONNA, THERE'S GONNA BE SOME OVERLAP, BUT TYPICALLY TWO THIRDS OF YOUR STAFF IS GONNA BE THERE AT ANY GIVEN.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU? JUST SO THAT IT'S CONNECTED TO LIKE WHAT THAT SECTION JUST SAYS? CLARIFY THAT.
OH, THIS, JUST CLARIFY INFORMATION.
NOT GOING TO CODE IT, IT JUST, I, I HAD IT FOR THIS MEETING.
AND THAT'S WHY IT SAID PER SE, RIGHT.
IT'S JUST, THAT'S, IT'S, THAT'S WHY IT'S IN A DIFFERENT COLOR TOO.
SO WOULD YOU CHANGE THE TWO AND A HALF, UM, ACRES TO ONE AND A HALF ACRES UP AND TWO AS WELL.
JUST BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN OTHER TIMES IN THE CODE WHERE ONLY HALF OF A NUMBER WAS CHANGED AND IT DROVE US ALL OVER THE WALL.
I'M JUST GONNA DO THIS AND MOVE OVER HERE AND GO 1.5
WHY ARE YOU CHANGING THAT? IT WOULD MAKE A, A NONCONFORMING.
AND, AND I KNEW THE NUMBER WAS MORE THAN ONE, LESS THAN THREE.
SO IT HAD NOTHING REALLY TO BASE IT ON UNTIL ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THE SIZE OF FACILITIES HERE IN TOWN.
DO WE WANT TO ADD A NOTE THERE ABOUT WHY WE MADE THAT CHANGE? OR THE OPPOSITE? I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S NECESSARY TO HAVE IT.
UM, SINCE WE'RE THIS ORIGINATING, ORIGINATING DOCUMENT.
THIS, THIS IS ALL NEW, NEW WRITING.
AND THOUGH, ACTUALLY, IF WE'RE LOOKING AHEAD TO, AND WE'RE GONNA BE GIVING THESE DOCUMENTS OVER TO MM-HMM
THE TOWN COUNCIL, HOW OFTEN WOULD IT BE HELPFUL FOR THEM TO KNOW WHY WE DID THEM? WELL, SO WHAT WE CAN DO IS WE CAN GIVE THEM A CLEAN VERSION AND THEN WE CAN GIVE THEM A VERSION WITH YOUR NOTES ON IT.
[01:05:01]
BOXES.WOULD IT BE HELPFUL FOR US, LIKE IN THIS INSTANCE TO ADD A COMMENT SAYING, WELL, YEAH, WE DON'T WANT TO DO, I'M COMING AROUND TO THAT.
OTHERWISE THEY'RE JUST GONNA RE-LITIGATE IT AND WE ALREADY DID THAT.
OR YOU CAN HAVE A JOINT MEETING WITH THEM AT THE BEGINNING AND SAY, BUT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE DOCUMENT IN THAT MEETING AND SAY, THIS IS WHY WE CHANGED WHAT WE CHANGED.
WE CAN PUT THE REASONING IT WAS IN THERE IF WE WANTED TO.
UM, WELL, WE WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND, AND DO THAT TO SOME OTHER STUFF AS WELL THEN.
'CAUSE WE HAVEN'T DONE THAT HISTORICALLY.
BUT, UM, I, I THINK THE IDEA OF HAVING A HANDOFF MEETING FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS, AS SIGNIFICANT AS THIS IS, EVEN IF IT'S NOT A FULL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA GO WALK THROUGH THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT, BUT A HANDOFF MEETING I THINK WOULD BE REALLY, REALLY GOOD BECAUSE, I MEAN, IT'S YOUR JOB TO GET IN THE WEEDS.
IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THEIR JOB TO GET IN THE WEEDS MM-HMM
UM, BUT IN THIS CASE, WE COULD JUST SAY, WE'RE GONNA PUT A NOTE IN THERE, BUT A HANDOFF WOULD BE GOOD.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL.
INVITE THEM INTO THE WEEDS AND THEN THEY'LL POLITELY DECLINE TO FOLLOW US.
UM, THERE'S 1.5 WEEDS MINIMUM STANDARD, AND IT PREVENTS AND PREVENTS NON-CONFORMITY WITH EXISTING ASSISTED ABUSE.
SPECIFICALLY PREVENTS WHAT? NONCONFORMING OR PREVENTS NON-CON PREVENT RESIST, WHAT WAS IT? YEAH.
PREVENT CREATING NONCONFORMING EXISTING.
THE WIND CARES ONLY 1.5 ACRES.
SEVERAL I HAVE, UM, I, I HAVE ALL THE NUMBERS FOR IT.
IF YOU CURIOUS, IF YOU HAVE, I WAS CURIOUS.
DID YOU TELL THEM YOU WANTED TO, YOU WERE RESEARCHING IT OR YOU WERE INTERESTED IN MOVING? HOW DID YOU, HOW DID YOU UP, HOW DID YOU GET THIS TOUR? I DIDN'T GET A TOUR.
I WENT OVER AND LOOKED, I WENT OVER AND DROVE THE PARKING LOT AND JUST WALKED AROUND.
AND LOOKED, I WALKED IN THE BUILDING AND LOOKED AWAY.
I DIDN'T GO IN AND SAY I'M PLANNING COMMISSION AND I'M HERE TO HELP
NO, I, I, IT DIDN'T DO, DIDN'T GO THAT FAR.
NO, I DIDN'T FEEL EMPOWERED TO DO THAT.
THAT WOULD BE BECAUSE YOU STARTED SWEATING WHEN I SAID THAT
I MEAN, LOOK, WE HAVE TO GET BACK TO THE, THAT SECTION IN THE DOCUMENT ITSELF TO LOOK AT THAT.
THAT'S A NOTE THAT WE NEED TO GO LOOK AT THAT SECTION.
WHY IS, WHY IS NURSE, WHY ARE NURSING HOMES ALLOWED? WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THE SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS NOW AND THAT WHOLE SECTION IS, IT JUST WAS AN ODDBALL AND SO I THOUGHT I'D BETTER MENTION IT SINCE IT WAS THERE.
WHAT'S NEXT? WHAT WAS THAT THING? THE ACTUAL MARKUP DOCUMENT? I'M SORRY, WHAT SECTION? WAS IT 6.4 DISTRICT? NO, HE WAS AT, WHERE IS THAT A TRAILER THING? YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT 8.2 0.3.
IS THAT TEMPORARY? TEMPORARY TRAILERS SHOULD BE LIKE TEMPORARY TRAILERS.
101 10 POINT SOMETHING, RIGHT? ONE SEVEN YOU SAYS? YES.
UM, SEE WHY THAT WAS? TEMPORARY TRAILERS.
WE HAVEN'T GOT THERE YET THOUGH, RIGHT? NO.
YOU HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THE SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISION YET? OH YEAH.
THAT'S WHERE IT'S CURRENTLY AT.
BUT THEY HAVEN'T GOTTEN THERE, RIGHT? YEAH, THAT'S UNDER SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISION.
IT WAS JUST IN THE, IN THE SPIRIT OF COMPLETENESS.
WELL, UH, YOU KNOW WHAT, LEMME JUST REOPEN THIS TO MAKE SURE I, I'M GONNA CLOSE ALL THE CURRENT WORD DOCUMENTS.
AND JUST TO MAKE SURE I HAVE THE RIGHT ONE OPEN WHEN I OPEN UP THE ONE FOUR MARKUPS.
UM, LAUREN, YOU WANNA TAKE IT TO WHERE YOU WANT TO GO IN HERE?
THIS IS JUST R OH, WELL, THE TITLE SAYS R TWO TO C ONE, BUT IT STARTS WITH R ONE.
IT'S LIKE I SAID, THIS IS A COMBINED DOCUMENT OF ALL THAT WORK THAT WE DID, SO IT WOULDN'T GET LOST.
UM, SO WHERE DO, WHERE DO YOU WANT WE, WE HAD, WELL, YOU GUYS HAD PUT QUESTIONS IN THERE, RIGHT? YEAH.
THIS WAS, WE HAD A SPREADSHEET THAT WAS IN, NOT A SPREADSHEET, IT WAS
[01:10:01]
SOME CHARTS THAT HAD SOME QUESTIONS.UM, WHERE THOSE OTHER, WAS THAT THE POWERPOINT? YES, IT WAS A POWERPOINT.
IT SHOULD BE ABOUT EIGHT PAGES DOWN, UP THERE AS WELL.
IT SHOULD APPEAR PRETTY SOON THERE, MEGAN? OR, WE TRIED PRINTING IT, BUT I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO COOPERATE.
SO LET'S JUST PULL IT UP ONE MORE TIME.
WHAT THIS WAS, WAS COMBINING THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE PUT IN, THE COMMENTS IN THE SIDE.
SO WE COULD JUST WALK THROUGH ONE AT A TIME FOR THE SAKE OF CONVENIENCE TO LAUREN MM-HMM
AND THEN, SO THE FIRST ONE WAS IN 6.6 0.5, THE AREA.
SO WE, WE MAY HAVE TO GO BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THIS AND THE DOCUMENT PER SE, BUT SURE.
I MEAN THAT, UH, WHAT WAS YOUR DECISION? THERE CAME A POINT WHERE WE DECIDED TO STOP MAKING DECISIONS UNTIL WE KNEW MORE ABOUT WHAT WAS GOING ON.
AND I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY AT WHAT POINT THAT WAS.
SO LET ME GET THIS DOWN TO, UH, TO ALSO, THIS, THIS VERSION HAS ALL THE TABLES AND R ONE AND STUFF.
WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, THIS STILL R TWO.
NOW I'M GONNA GO BACK TO THIS
ALRIGHT, YOU WANNA START THERE SPECIFICALLY? ALRIGHT, SO THERE'S A NOTE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE? NO, I, A LITTLE OH YEAH.
RIGHT? WELL, I WAS JUST GONNA FLIP OVER THIS AND OKAY.
I'M JUST SAYING REFERENCING BACK AND FORTH.
OKAY, SO THIS IS WHERE, RIGHT, SO THIS CAME OUT OF, I MEAN, JUST LIKE IT SAYS IN THE, IN THE COMMENT THERE, WHEN WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS, REALIZING THAT IT WOULD MAKE IT MORE DENSE THAN R THREE AND THAT WASN'T SO HOUSE, THE POINT OF SOME OF THESE WERE THAT THIS WOULD HELP TIE US INTO THAT FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL.
AND SO THAT'S WHY I THINK MULTI-FAMILY, WHAT DID WE HAVE? WE ADDED A, UM, WE ADDED TOWNHOUSES AS BY RIGHT USE HERE AND THEN, UM, OKAY.
SO WE LEFT THE TOWNHOUSES AND THEY WANTED TO INCREASE THE DENSITY BECAUSE THAT WAS, THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR THE A D IN PLACE AND, UM, JUST MIXING INCOME LEVELS AND JUST ALIGN IT WITH THAT NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL FUTURE LAND DESIGNATION.
THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF LOWERING THE DENSITY HERE.
AND THEN ADDING IN TOWNHOUSES, YOU HAVE THIS, SORRY, UP THE DENSITY AND ADDING IN THE TOWNHOUSES.
UM, THERE WAS A SUGGESTION AS WELL FROM THEM OF ADDING IN MULTI-FAMILY DWELLING UNITS AND WE ENDED UP DECIDING TO REMOVE THAT OUTRIGHT BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE LOWS AND MEDIUM DENSITY.
IS IT THE STATEMENT OF INTENT FOR R TWO? AND SO I HAVING MULTIFAMILY THAT, THAT IS HIGH DENSITY.
UM, SO IT JUST DIDN'T, DIDN'T SEEM TO MAKE SENSE IN THAT WAY.
THERE'S ALSO LOT SIZE OF DUPLEXES IN THAT 6.6 0.5.
WELL THIS IS, YEAH, IT IS DUPLEXES, IT ADDS IN FOR TOWNHOUSE STRUCTURES BEING 8,000 AND THEN ALL OTHER USES 5,000 DOWN FROM EIGHT.
UM, NOW, AND THAT WAS AFTER THEY DID THIS, THEY DID AN ANALYSIS FROM THE LOT AND JUST SAID, HEY, 5,000 WOULD COVER EVERY LOT JUST ABOUT, AND, BUT THAT'S ANOTHER, THAT'S A BROAD STROKE GENERAL, IT DOESN'T FIT ANYMORE.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT NUMBER WE REALLY WANT THAT TO BE IS WHAT WE'RE GOING DO.
AND THE STRUGGLE HERE WAS ALSO WE WANT TO ALIGN OUR CURRENT RESIDENTIAL ZONES WITH THE
SO IT WAS LIKE UP TO DENSITY AND JUST
[01:15:01]
ALLOW EVERY HOUSING UNIT WITHIN THESE, THESE R TWO OR THREE DISTRICT, UM, THAT, THAT SEEMS LIKE THE SIMPLER APPROACH.SO, BUT, AND, AND CUTTING THE WHOLESALING.
SO WHAT DOES IT MEAN THEN FOR US TO, FOR IT TO GO FROM, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS IT? UH, 8,000 TO 6,000, RIGHT.
UM, FOR DUPLEXES IN PARTICULAR, UH, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY 3000 PER, AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE BEING AT 5,000, THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE IN R TWO IS 11,000.
AND THEN IF WE LOOK AT THIS MAP WHERE IT'S, YOU KNOW, HERE'S THE STUFF THAT, UH, OF THE 45 THAT ARE UNDEVELOPED AND NONCONFORMING, THEY'RE AT 4,500.
SO THIS IS ONE IN EFFECT SAYING ACROSS THE BOARD, LET'S MAKE IT SO ALL OF THEM CAN BASICALLY DO IT.
AT LEAST HALF CAN JUST BUILD RIGHT OFF.
COULD THIS THEN BE SEEN AS ONE OF THOSE STROKES WHERE SAYING, OKAY, NOW WE'RE GONNA MAKE THIS ALL OF THESE THAT IS JUST FOR THESE, RIGHT? AS OPPOSED TO, UH, I'M NOT PHRASING MYSELF.
WELL, THE NON-CONFORMING USE EXCEPTIONS.
UH, THAT WAS RIGHT AT THE BEGINNING.
OF THIS, IT WAS, UH, IS PUT PUT THERE WITH THE INTENTION OF BEING ABLE TO WORK WITH FOLKS LIKE THIS WHO IN THESE NON-CONFORMING, I THINK WE WANT TO, YEAH, WE WANT TO SEPARATE THOSE NOW WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO THOSE NON-CONFORMING LOTS AND NOT PUT THEM IN THE GENERAL REGULATIONS.
GENERAL REGULATIONS WOULD BE FOR THOSE THAT ARE CONFORMING, BUT BY MAKING IT SO THAT ALL OTHER USES, WHICH WOULD BE YOUR SINGLE FAMILY, ET CETERA, BEING AT 5,000 SQUARE FEET, THAT IS THOSE ON AVERAGE.
NOT ALL, BUT ON AVERAGE THAT IS THOSE, IT, IT MAKES MORE THAN BILLABLE.
I WOULDN'T BE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT TYPE OF FLEXIBILITY ADMINISTRATIVELY AND REDUCING IT DOWN TO FIVE.
NO, THAT'S MY CONCERN IF YOU HAVE THAT.
NO, WE HAVE, IT'S THE WRONG, IT'S, I THINK WE HAVE THE WRONG NUMBER THERE NOW.
I THINK FIVE THOUSAND'S THE WRONG.
I THINK IF YOU WANNA GO THE DIRECTION OF GIVING STAFF THE AUTHORITY TO ADMINISTRATIVELY ON NONCONFORMING LAWS, ON NONCONFORMING LAWS, LIKE WAIVE SOME OF THESE REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU DON'T WANNA, YOU'RE NOT GONNA WANT TO GO DOWN TO THIS LIKE 5,000.
HOWEVER, IF YOU DON'T WANNA TAKE THAT APPROACH, THIS COULD FIX THIS ZONE.
BUT FOR SOME OF THEM, FOR SOME OF THEM, MOST OF 'EM, BUT I THINK IT'S WHAT APPROACH DO YOU WANNA SEE? YOU'RE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THE ADMINISTRATIVE APPROACH THEN YOU PROBABLY WANNA UP THIS AT LEAST UP TO 6,000.
SO THE ADMINISTRATIVE, ADMINISTRATIVE APPROACH, BECAUSE IT'S A SMALLER NUMBER OF LOTS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH AS OPPOSED TO NOT ARE WE DEALING WITHOUT, BUT ALL FUTURE LOTS THAT BE DEVELOPED.
SO I WOULD, I WOULD BRING THIS UP.
UM, NOW DETERMINING HOW MUCH TO BRING IT UP.
HOW, HOW DO WE KNOW IT? WHAT IT WAS? EIGHT.
UM, WE, WE ARE LOOKING FOR A MORE DENSE THING.
SO HOW DO WE KNOW WHAT TO BRING IT TO? I WAS JUST THINKING THE DUPLEX IS ABOUT AS SMALL AS YOU'RE GONNA YEAH.
THE STRUCTURES SOMEBODY'S GONNA WANT PUT ON THAT.
UM, WELL, I GUESS, OKAY, SO WE'RE, WE'RE KIND OF MOVING FROM WHAT SHOULD BE C BUT UH, B TWO CALL IT
LIKE ALL THE OTHER USES IN, YOU KNOW, INCLUDING STUFF LIKE SINGLE FAMILY, 5,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT IS TINY.
UM, AND IF THEY'RE LOOKING TO BRING IT DOWN FROM ANYTHING.
I THINK THE QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, THEN WHAT IS A GOOD ONE? BUT WHERE I CAN SEE THAT 5,000 IS NOT GONNA BE PROPER IS BECAUSE THEN IT MAKES THE, UH, SPECIAL EXCEPTION SECTION REDUNDANT IN A WAY.
OH, SPECIAL EXCEPTION WILL HAVE ADDRESSING THOSE LOTS.
IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE IT WOULD JUST MAKE IT SO THAT LOT BY LOT BY LOT.
SO, AND THIS DOESN'T TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHAT ARE THE LOTS AROUND IT? WHAT'S THE CIRCUMSTANCE OF, OF, OF SHE'S GOING GRANT THE VARIANCE.
THOSE JUST GIVE ME, WHICH IS WHY I'M MORE IN FAVOR OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE.
YEAH, I HAVE TWO, BUT JUST WHAT NUMBERS SHOULD THIS BE ABOVE 5,000
[01:20:02]
FOR TWO? WHAT WAS THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE? 11,000.YEAH, WE DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE THAT.
NEXT TIME WOULD BE IN THE R TWO BE THE HIGH AND THE LOW, OR AT THE VERY LEAST JUST THE AVERAGE AND THE MEDIAN, BECAUSE YOU CAN TELL FROM THAT WHAT, WHAT SORT OF SKEW WE'RE LOOKING AT.
WE ONLY HAVE, THERE'S NOT THAT MANY, WE ONLY HAVE 45 VACANT PARCELS NOW THAT ARE NON-CONFORMING IN PARTICULAR.
WELL, NON-CONFORMING MEANING THERE ARE LESS THAN THE 8,000.
SO WHAT IT COULD MEAN IS THAT THERE'S HOWEVER MANY MORE THAT WE DON'T KNOW.
I'D LIKE TO, THAT DO MEET THE CURRENT CO THE CURRENT SETUP.
SO WE ONLY HAVE 45 THAT'S UNDER 8,000.
UM, IT MAKES ME WONDER, DO WE JUST KEEP IT, I MEAN I UNDERSTAND AND I CAN DEFINITELY APPRECIATE WANTING TO UP THE DENSITY AND, YOU KNOW, WANTING TO THEN FOLLOW THE MATRIX OR BE MORE, UH, PROGRESSIVE TOWARDS THE MATRIX THAT'S IN THE COMP PLAN.
SO YOU HAVE 8 832 AT, AT 11,600 BASICALLY.
OF THE 832, THE AVERAGE LOT SIZE IS 11,600.
BUT THEN YOU HAVE 45 PARCELS CURRENTLY THAT ARE NONCONFORMING, THAT ARE UNDER 5,000.
UM, WHERE, WHAT IS THAT, THAT RIVERVIEW HEIGHTS THAT YOU USE MM-HMM
I THINK THAT GIANT, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY ACRES IS THAT? THAT PARCEL IS GONNA MASSIVELY SKEW, UM, THAT ZONE, THAT JUST ONE PARCEL THERE.
THAT'S CURRENTLY UNDER, THAT'S CURRENTLY UNDER, UH, REVIEW.
BUT JUST THAT PIECE IS WHAT, 10 ACRES? UM, OKAY.
SO WELL KEEP IN MIND WITH THE, IT'S 109 ACRES.
THAT'S WHY I THINK THAT THIS ONE PARK COULD, WELL, UM, NO, IT SHOULDN'T BE.
WELL HOLD ON ONE SECOND AS WELL.
SO IF WE LEFT IT AT THE 8,000 THEN A 25%, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE VARIANCE ALLOWED MEANS THAT SOMEONE COULD HAVE A 5,700 SQUARE FOOT LOT.
IN YOUR, WHICH IS RIGHT ABOUT THIS ANYWAY, SO IT SEEMS NUMBER OF LOTS.
SO I THINK JUST KEEP IT AT THE EIGHT.
IT'S NOT, AND ONE ABOVE IS WELL, EIGHT, 6,000.
THAT THE ONLY ONE I WANT US TO LOOK AT AGAIN THEN IS TOWNHOUSE.
BECAUSE FOR TOWNHOUSES TO WORK, THEY NEED LIKE WHAT, FOUR HOUSES NEXT TO EACH OTHER.
THREE OR FOUR TO COUNT MM-HMM
AND 8,000 IS, UH, REAL SMALL
UM, I WOULD WANNA SEE, I THINK WE REQUIRE WHAT, 20 FOOT WIDE TOWNHOUSES WE REQUIRE 20 FOOT WIDE.
IS THAT NOT OUR RIGHT NOW? MM-HMM
AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THE SIDE SETBACKS FOR THOSE END UNITS AT WHAT, 2040.
THOSE LOTS NEED TO BE 40 UNITS.
SO RIGHT THERE YOU PRETTY MUCH, YOU'VE TAKEN UP PRETTY MUCH ALL OF YOUR, YOUR SPACE.
AND I HAVE SPOKEN WITH THE BUILDER WHO SAID THEIR SMALLEST TOWNHOUSE PRODUCT IS 16 FEET WIDE.
I SOLD A 16 FOOT BEFORE THERE.
SMALL, I MEAN, THERE'S ONE SIDE HALLWAY.
WELL, I MEAN IT ALSO DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
I MEAN, THE ONES THAT I SOLD WERE FOUR STORIES.
BUT, UM, UH, WHAT IS IT, WHAT ARE WE CALLING IT? THE USE EXCEPTION AND USE VARIANCE USE, WHAT DID I CALL IT? WHAT YOU CALL IT UNDER SIZE OF CONSTRAINED LOTS? IS IT THE, THE SIZE VARIANCE FOR NON-CONFORMITY VARIANCE.
ADMINISTRATIVE VARIANCE NONCONFORM.
YOU CHOOSE WHERE THET YOU WANT TO GO.
WELL, WE'LL HAVE TO BASED ON YOU LOOK AT THAT FOR THE NEXT MEETING.
WE'RE SAYING I JUST, THAT WAS RIGHT.
SO WITH THAT COMMENT IN THERE, UM, ARE WE GOOD THEN FOR ME TO JUST GO THROUGH THESE AND REJECT CHANGES? I, I'M COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
ESPECIALLY IF, IF YOU GUYS ARE GONNA GO WITH THAT 25% THERE AND THAT GIVES YOU THE FLEXIBILITY ON THOSE LINES.
THAT GIVES US ALL THE FLEXIBILITY WE NEED.
AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE FOR ALL FUTURE BUILDING.
BUT THE 25 PERCENT'S ONLY FOR CURRENT LOTS.
[01:25:01]
CURRENT NON-CONFORMING LOTS.CAN'T NON FUTURE LOTS, SOMEWHAT FUTURE LOTS WOULD BE DONE.
FUTURE LOTS HAVE TO BE TO THESE STANDARD FUTURE LOTS NEED TO BE CONFORMED.
IF YOU CAN'T CREATE, THEY CREATE A NON-CONFORMING LOT.
WE CAN'T CREATE NONCONFORMING LOT.
UM, ARE WE DOING THE SAME THING FOR DUPLEXES THEN? KEEPING IT AT EIGHT? WE CAN STILL DO DUPLEXES, BUT, BUT THEN WE'RE GOING ON.
I THINK WE NEED TO LEAVE THE SAME.
I'M VERY GRATEFUL THAT YOU HAVE THE GIS PERSON NOW.
I WAS EXCITED TO HEAR, I'M SURE.
THAT GAVE US, THAT GAVE US THE WHOLE THING.
IT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE FELT SO COMFORTABLE GOING, YOU KNOW WHAT, LET'S JUST WAIT.
AND I'M TRYING TO GET HIM TO COME THE MEETING.
THE LEFT HAND AND PICK HIS BRAIN.
AND THEY'RE, WE'RE WORKING ON THESE, UM, HE'S GOT A PORTAL GOING NOW FOR THE PUBLIC AND I THINK YOU COULD ACCESS IT FROM OUR WEBSITE, BUT YOU CAN LOOK AT OUR ZONING MAP.
UM, YOU CAN PULL UP INFORMATION ON REZONINGS.
HE'S WORKING ON DOING A SHORT TERM RENTAL SPECIAL USE PERMIT MAP.
SO YOU CAN JUST SEE WHERE ALL OF THESE ARE TOWN.
AND HE DID A HOMETOWN HEROES MAP.
SO ALL THOSE BANNERS, YOU CAN TYPE IN A NAME AND IT'LL TAKE YOU RIGHT TO THAT BANNER AND TELL YOU WHERE IT'S AT.
AND HE DID THIS IN A PERIOD OF COUPLE HOURS.
COUPLE HOURS THAT WOULD INCLUDE WALKING THE THREE AND A HALF MILES TAKING, TAKING PICTURES GPS OF THE BANNERS, BOOM.
CAME BACK, SET IT UP AND EMAILED ME THE LINK.
HOW OLD WAS HE? WHAT WAS HE ON? 23, 23
SEE THAT WITH ALL DUE RESPECT.
I MEAN, I MEAN EVERYTHING HE DOES.
SO NEXT SECTION WE HAVE WITH 6.7 POINT 11.
WELL THERE WAS SOME STUFF WHERE, UM, WE DIDN'T CHANGE IT AGAIN BECAUSE OH, THAT'S RIGHT.
THIS IS WHERE WE'RE STARTING TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE LIKE, WE DON'T KNOW WHY THIS IS HAPPENING.
AND I, I, AGAIN, THESE SETBACKS WERE REDUCED WITH THE IDEA OF JUST MAKING IT EASIER TO BUILD AND JUST SO THERE'S NO REASON NOT, THERE'S NO REASON TO CHANGE THEM.
'CAUSE I MEAN, THE WAY IT IS NOW, YOU HAVE MINIMUM OF WHAT, 20 FEET BETWEEN TWO STRUCTURES? UM, YEAH.
WE HAD, I MEAN, IN COLLEGE I'VE LIVED IN A PLACE WHERE YOU HAVE
BUT THAT'S NOT YEAH, IT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT FAMILY.
WHICH IS WHY I, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE TO SAY THIS FOR SOMETHING LIKE R THREE, I COULD SEE THAT BECAUSE IT, THAT THAT'S MORE AROUND THE AREA THAT WILL BE CONNECTED WALKING WISE TO SO HIGHER DENSITY.
SO THE IDEA WOULD BE THAT HIGHER DENSITY IS NOT NECESSARILY CATERING TO FAMILY, THAT IT'S MORE, IT DEPENDS ON HOW HIGH OF A DENSITY.
I MEAN YOU WANT, WELL, ONLY TWO IS SINGLE FAMILY DUPLEXES.
BASED ON, AGAIN, DO YOU HAVE FLEXIBILITY ON THOSE NON-CONFORMING TO DO THAT? I THINK WE NEED TO PUT NOT CHANGE.
THIS THING, ONE THING I WENT BACK, LEMME MAKE SURE YOU CHANGE THEM FROM WHAT SUMMIT DID OR NOT, BUT, UM, NOT GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL NUMBERS, BUT YOU INCLUDED TOWNHOUSES IN R TWO.
BECAUSE THAT WAS A SUMMIT CHANGE.
NOW CURRENTLY, UH, THEY HAVEN'T EVEN GOTTEN AT THE TOWNHOUSE PERFORMANCE YET.
ARE ARE WE MAKING, UH, ON THE R TWO WITH THE TOWNHOUSES? UM, YEAH, I THINK ARE ABOUT TO SAY THE SAME THING.
RIGHT? SO THE R THREE CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO BE A MINIMUM OF 20,000 TO GET STARTED.
3000 SQUARE FOOT LOT TO GET STARTED.
AND WE SEE IN THE R THREE, BUT WE DON'T STIPULATE THAT IN THE R TWO, WELL, THE R TWO WE'RE SAYING 8,000
WELL, I THINK AND DID THEY STRUCTURE IS 8,000, THAT WAS THE, UH, THAT WAS SEVEN.
BUT DID THEY NOT MAKE THAT SAME RECOMMENDATION IN THE R THREE FOR TOWNHOUSE OR SOMETHING? I'M LOOKING, LOOKING AT IT RIGHT HERE.
SO THAT'S ONE THING REASON WHY WE GOT SO CONFUSED.
SO THE THING IS, OUR TOWNHOUSE SECTION, THE END UNIT'S 40 FOOT WIDE.
[01:30:01]
RIGHT.SO, SO, SO IF YOU HAVE A DEPTH OF A HUNDRED FOOT, THAT'S 4,000 SQUARE FEET FOR THIS TO WORK, YOU DON'T HAVE A TOWNHOUSE, YOU HAVE A DUPLEX.
THESE CHANGES TO WORK, YOU'D ALSO HAVE TO AMEND THE SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS FOR THE TOWNHOUSES.
AND I DON'T
WE HAVEN'T GOTTEN TO THEM YET.
LEMME HOLD UP REAL QUICK AND SEE IF THEY CHANGED BECAUSE THEY SHOULD HAVE CHANGED THAT.
TOWNHOUSE, YOU CAN'T, REALISTICALLY, YOU CAN'T HAVE A MINIMUM LOT SIZE FOR A TOWNHOUSE STRUCTURE TO GET STARTED AT 8,000 ON, UH, ON THE R THREE IT SAYS SPECIFICALLY TOWNHOUSES DEVELOPED ON SITES OF 20,000 SQUARE FEET UP TO ONE ACRE AS ASSET FORTH AND 9.6.
BUT, UM, I MEAN, ARE YOU SAYING UNDER B YOU'RE WANTING THE MINIMUM SIZE OF AN INDIVIDUAL TOWNHOUSE TO BE 8,000? NO.
IS THIS TOWNHOUSE STRUCTURE IT BE FOR A TOWNHOUSE STRUCTURE, WHICH WOULD BE ALL THE TOWNHOUSE, NOT JUST ONE SINGLE? NO, THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S JUST A, I MEAN, STARTING OFF, HOW MANY, HOW MANY SQUARE FOOT ARE YOU GONNA START OUT FOR A TOWNHOUSE? A BLOCK OF TOWN HOMES, ONE STRUCTURE.
WHAT ARE WE CALLING A BLOCK? THREE? IT'S A MINIMUM OF THREE RIGHT? FOR ME TO START? YES.
YOU TWO IS A TWO IS A DUPLEX OR A TWO FAMILIES.
SO IF WE REQUIRE 20 FEET, WE NEED 60 40.
WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU ONLY NEED, YOU NEED A HUNDRED.
YOUR END UNITS ARE 40 TOTAL AND YOU'RE DOING A THREE THEN THE MIDDLE UNIT'S 20, THE END UNITS ARE 40.
THAT WOULD GIVE YOU A HUNDRED MINIMUM LOT WIDTH.
THAT I'M SAYING UNDER THIS 8,000, IS THAT THE INDIVIDUAL UNITS OR THE BLOCK WHEN YOU GET STARTED? RIGHT.
SO NOW, 'CAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HAVING A THREE UNIT ONE, AT THE MINIMUM YOU HAVE A HUNDRED FOOT WIDE LOT AND IF IT'S A HUNDRED FOOT DEEP, THAT'S 10,000 SQUARE FEET.
AND THAT WOULD BE, IF THE HOUSES ARE GOING TO THE PROPERTY LINE, THOSE INCLUDE SETBACK.
SO YOU'RE SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT THEY, SO DOWN IN DIVISION 9.6, THEY DIDN'T CHANGE THE MINIMUM MARK SIZE FOR TOWNHOUSE CONSTRUCTION DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THEY CHANGED ANYTHING.
IT'S, WOULD IT BE INAPPROPRIATE AT SOME POINT TO GO BACK TO SUMMIT AND SAY, WE PAID YOU TOO MUCH
SO THIS NEEDS TO BE, WHAT ARE WE SAYING, 20,000 SQUARE FEET? WELL, SO IT'S, IT'S 10,000 IF YOU'RE TAKING ALL THOSE HOMES TO THE LOT LINES.
IF WE'RE THEN GONNA BE PUTTING IN THE SETBACKS, SETBACKS TO GO ALONG, UH, THEN, YOU KNOW, I, I MEAN I THINK I, I THINK MAYBE WHAT WE DO NEXT TIME IS WE WILL LOOK AT THESE SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS FOR THE TOWNHOUSES AND THE APARTMENTS SINCE WE'RE DISCUSSING THEM IN THIS, IN THE ZONES.
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SET THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE.
IF WE HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT IS THE 20 FOOT WIDTH APPROPRIATE? YEAH.
WHAT'S THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE FOR THESE TO FIT? I MEAN, 'CAUSE WE DON'T, WE TYPICALLY, HOW TALL ONE FOUR WOULD OR FOUR STORY TOWNHOUSE BE? IT'S BEYOND 35 FEET, RIGHT? YEAH.
UM, IT, YEAH, IT'S BEYOND THAT.
AND THEN IF YOU'RE JUST LOOKING DOWN THE LINE, THE MAINTENANCE WHEN YOU GET TO THE TOP OF THOSE IS LIKE, NO ONE'S WILLING TO DO IT.
AND IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR, YOU KNOW, BE ABLE MAKE OPTIONS DON'T FIT MARK.
LIKE THEY'RE NOT SOMETHING THAT I DO THINK THOUGH THAT 18 WIVES COULD WORK.
UM, AND YEAH, I MEAN THE, WHEN YOU GOT UP TO 20, I MEAN THAT WAS LIKE THE BIGGEST, DEPENDING ON THE, THE COMMUNITY.
I MEAN, IF YOU GET LIKE CHEVY CHASE, THEN YEAH, WE DO 20 FOURS, BUT GENERALLY 20 WAS THE WIDEST THAT MY COMPANY WOULD GO.
UM, SO WHAT DO WE WANT TO DO? JUST PUT A NOTE HERE FOR NOW THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE DETERMINED.
I THINK WE DO A NOTE AND THAT, AND MAYBE IT MAY BE WISE TO LOOK AT THE TOWNHOUSE AND PROBABLY THE APARTMENTS.
WE'LL LOOK AT 'EM TOGETHER BECAUSE THEIR USES THAT ARE TALKED ABOUT IN THESE RESIDE IN THE R TWO AND R THREE.
BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO CHANGE THESE REQUIREMENTS IN THIS SECTION AND NOT CHANGE THEM IN THE
[01:35:01]
PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.UM, SHOULD I JUST SAY THAT THE SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS? SEE, SEE THE THING, THE THING IS THAT THE TOWN HOMES, SO IF YOU GO WITH THE 8,000 MM-HMM
AND THE END UNITS NEED TO BE 40.
SO THAT GIVES YOU THE MIDDLE UNIT AT 20.
SO YOU ONLY HAVE A HUNDRED FOOT WIDE LOT.
THE SETBACK IS 40 FROM THE FRONT AND 40 FROM THE REAR.
SO A HUNDRED FOOT WIDE LOT TO GET.
AN 8,000 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM IS 80 FOOT DEEP.
AND THEN YOUR SETBACKS, JUST YOUR SETBACKS ARE 40 BY 40.
SO YOU CANNOT BUILD A TOWNHOUSE ON THE LOT.
COULDN'T REDUCE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE FROM 20 TO EIGHT AND THEN NOT CUT THOSE SETBACKS.
YOU COULDN'T KEEP A 40 FOOT SETBACK FROM THOSE.
SO YOU'RE, YOU'D BE PUTTING IT AT LIKE 10 AND I WOULD SAY LIKE 10.
IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT LIKE, ANYTHING THAT'S GONNA BE A POSSIBILITY, LIKE A TOWN HALL NEIGHBORHOOD OF ANY SORT, WHEN IT COMES TO THE SIDE LOTS.
AND ONE OF THE REASONS WHY YOU HAVE THAT, THAT MUCH OF A SETBACK IS TO MAKE THEM MORE NESTLED, IS TO SEPARATE THEM OUT A LITTLE BIT.
BECAUSE OTHERWISE THE CROWDING THAT YOU GET ALONG THE STREET IS INTENSE.
WELL, WE NEED THE 40 ON THE END UNITS OR AN ACCESS EASEMENT FOR THE REAR FOR THE ONES THAT ARE IN THE MIDDLE.
SO IF YOU HAVE AN EIGHT BLOCK, EIGHT UNIT TOWN HOMES, THE END UNITS ARE 40 WITH AN ACCESS UTILITY EASEMENT ON THE END, THEN, THEN IT COMES DOWN THE BACK.
SO PEOPLE ARE GRANTED AN EASEMENT TO GET TO THEIR BACKYARD MM-HMM
UNFORTUNATELY WE GOT OLDER SECTIONS, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THAT.
AND PEOPLE CAN ONLY GET TO THEIR BACKYARD TO MOW THEIR BACKYARD RIGHT.
UM, WHAT, SO WE HAVE AN EASEMENT.
SO THE 40 FOOT TOWNHOME END UNITS ALLOW THAT EASEMENT TO RUN DOWN THE SIDE.
OF THEIR UNIT AND A 10 FOOT EASEMENT IN THE REAR FOR ACCESS.
BUT YOU'VE ALSO GOTTEN HISTORIC COMMUNITIES LIKE NAPA, ALEX, ANDREA, WHERE THE TOWN HOMES ARE PRETTY CLOSE TO THE SIDEWALK.
I MEAN, THERE ARE ALSO COMMUNITIES THAT WERE BUILT BUILT BEFORE THE CAR, RIGHT? YEAH.
WITH ANY, BUT THEY'RE CHARMING.
THEY'RE WALKABLE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL.
LIKE I, WHEN I LIVED OUT IN
FINDING PARKING WAS ALWAYS AWFUL.
IF YOU WENT THERE ENOUGH, YOU KNEW WHICH STREETS TO GO TO.
BUT, UM, BECAUSE WE'RE THEN BUILDING FOR THE CAR A LITTLE BIT AS WELL, LIKE IF WE COULD, IF WE ALL, IF WE DIDN'T HAVE TO HAVE CARS, I'D BE SO WITH YOU.
I WOULD LOVE THE IDEA OF RIGHT UP ON THE STREET FRONT, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE SEE IN OUR, AT THAT POINT WE ARE, IF WE ARE GONNA BE AS PART CONSCIOUS AS I THINK WE ARE, THEN WE ARE ALSO ACCEPTING THAT WE ARE A BEDROOM COMMUNITY.
I MEAN, WE CAN LOOK AT IMPROVING WALKABILITY TO AN EXTENT, BUT YOU CAN ABSOLUTELY HAVE BOTH.
I MEAN, IF YOU WANNA LOOK AT NEW COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE A WALKABILITY, UM, YOU KNOW, AND I REALLY DON'T LIKE COMPARING NORTHERN VIRGINIA, BUT OF COURSE THAT'S MY HISTORY.
SO LIKE THE MOSAIC DISTRICT IN MERRIFIELD, YOU HAVE A BUNCH OF TOWN HOMES THERE.
RIGHT? NOW GRANTED THEY HAVE GARAGES IN THE BACK, WHICH WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO DO BECAUSE IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT TYPE OF BUILD.
BUT, UM, I DON'T THINK THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THE GARAGES IN THE BACK.
BUT IT, IT MAKES THOSE TYPES OF HOMES A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE BUILDING A GARAGE AND TAKING UP THAT SPACE.
AND THAT'S ONE THE ONES THE THINGS THAT FORCES IT TO FOUR STORIES.
'CAUSE OTHERWISE YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET THE SQUARE FOOTAGE YOU NEED.
UM, BUT YOU CAN BUILD THAT AND THEN IT'S STILL WALKABLE.
UM, AND I DON'T THINK EVERY AREA WITH THE TOWNHOUSE NEEDS TO THEN BE WALKABLE.
I MEAN OUR THREE BEING SO CLOSE TO THE DOWNTOWN AND IF WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID SPRAWL, THEN CONCENTRATING THOSE SORTS OF THINGS THERE I THINK COULD MAKE A LOT OF SENSE.
BUT IT'S SOMETHING LIKE THE R TWO WHERE IT IS MORE NEIGHBORHOOD ORIENTED.
WE ARE, WE TO THAT EXTENT, WE ARE A BEDROOM COMMUNITY.
BECAUSE LOOK AT HOW, HOW, HOW MANY PEOPLE HERE COMMUTE? THE MAJORITY OF OUR POPULATION COMMUTE SOUTH.
IT'S WE'RE, I DROVE 500 MILES A WEEK ANYWAY, SO I WAS 600 MILES A WEEK WHEN I WAS COMMUTING.
UM,
[01:40:01]
BUT I DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT ANYMORE.AND UM, I JUST HAVE A NOTE IN HERE SAYING WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE SUPPLEMENTALS BEFORE WE YEP.
WE KIND OF NEED A DECISION, I GUESS IS WHAT WE'RE ASKING.
WE'RE LOOKING, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE SUPPLE AT THAT NEEDS TO BE, THE DECISION IS THAT WE CAN MOVE ON BEYOND 6.6 0.5.
WE WE'RE LOOKING THE SUPPLEMENTALS MEAN WE NEED TO LOOK AT SUPPLE YOU OR YOU NEED TO LOOK AT WE, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING? WE NEED TO ALL, AS WE, ALL OF US COLLECT.
SO LIKE FOR THE NEXT MEETING, JOHN REVIEWS THIS STUFF ALL THE TIME.
RIGHT? YOU, YOU REVIEW OUR TOWNHOUSES IN THE CLASS, EVERYTHING.
WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THESE SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS AND MAYBE, OKAY, WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE IF WE PERMIT 18 FOOT WIDE TOWNHOUSE? YES.
WHAT WOULD THAT LOT SIZE NEED TO LOOK LIKE? THAT THAT'S WHAT I WAS GETTING AT.
HOW WIDE DO THESE ACCESS NEED TO BE? DO THEY NEED TO BE 20 FEET ON THE SIDES? IF WE HAVE 40 FOR REQUIRING 40 TO GIVE, YOU HAVE THAT ACCESS EASEMENT.
DOES IT NEED TO BE THAT WIDE? DOES IT NEED TO BE 10 FEET IN THE BACK, BE LESS? IT'S GONNA BE MORE OUT.
THE ACCESS EASEMENT CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, 10, RIGHT? YEAH.
BUT THAT'S WHAT WE CAN FIGURE OUT BY THE NEXT MEETING SO THAT WE ALL CAN THEN HAVE A CONVERSATION.
JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE, THOSE PACKETS HAVE TO GO OUT NEXT WEEK.
SO WAIT NEXT WEEK, NEXT WEEK, NEXT WEEK.
THE PACKETS AWAY THE FOLLOWING WEEK WILL BE, WELL THAT WE'RE CLOSE NEXT THURSDAY AND FRIDAY AND JOHN AND I ARE BOTH OFF ALL NEXT WEEK.
SO TOMORROW
SO SO NEXT WEEK IS WHEN THEY'LL, THEY'LL HAVE TO GO OUT BY WEDNESDAY TO PACK IT.
THE 26TH, THEY NEED TO GO OUT THE 26TH.
I HAVE AN IDEA THEN, BECAUSE THAT'S A LOT IN A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
WHAT IF WE WERE TO HOLD OFF ON THE SUPPLEMENTALS UNTIL JANUARY AND THEN WE WILL JUST SAY THAT IN GOING THROUGH THESE, ANYTHING THAT FEELS IS MULTIFAMILY TOWN HOMES STUFF WHERE YOU, WHERE THE SUPPLEMENTAL NEED TO BE LOOKED AT.
WE HAVE, UH, WE DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING SCHEDULED FOR YOUR DECEMBER 17TH, UH, REGULAR MEETING.
WE HAVE NO, NO APPLICATIONS COME IN.
SO YOU CAN HAVE A WORK SESSION ON DECEMBER 3RD AND THE WORK SESSION AT THE TYPICAL THIRD WEDNESDAY ON THE 17TH, WHICH WE COULD DO HERE.
AND THAT WOULD GIVE YOU GUYS WANT THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
ON DECEMBER 17TH, TURKEY WHILE FIGURING SETBACKS.
I'M JUST SAYING WE WON'T, WE DON'T HAVE ANY ITEMS FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE 17TH OF DECEMBER SO THAT THEY COULD BE USED AS TWO WORK SESSIONS IN DECEMBER.
HOWEVER YOU WANNA AND THEN, YEAH, SO WHEN IT COMES TO THIS, ANYTHING DEALING WITH STUFF THAT WILL BE IN THE SUPPLEMENTALS, IGNORE IT FOR NOW.
WE'LL COME BACK AND THEN WE'LL LOOK AT SUPPLEMENTALS ON THE 17TH.
'CAUSE THE SUPPLEMENTALS WILL DEFINE THE NUMBERS THAT WOULD GO INTO HERE ANYWAY.
SO, BECAUSE I THINK ALL OF YOUR QUESTIONS IN THIS ARE JUST DEALING AROUND WHY DID SUMMIT CUT THIS, CUT THAT AT THIS.
THAT WAS BASED, THAT WAS THE CRUX OF THIS.
SO, AND THIS IS ALL THE RESIDENTIAL, RIGHT? YEAH.
UM, IT WAS REGARD TO DID WE START WITH C ONE? UH, WE WENT THROUGH C ONE.
AND THAT'S IN THAT CHART RIGHT THERE.
UH, SO FOR THE NEXT WORK SESSION THEN IF WE, IF YOU CAN GIVE US TILL THE 17TH TO GET TOWNHOUSE APARTMENT IN THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS AND THEN JOHN AND I CAN TWEAK BLOCK SIZES.
WE LOOK AT, UM, VARIANCE ISSUE.
THAT'S S NONCONFORMING CHAPTER C ONE.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO THOSE BECAUSE IT'S ALSO, IT'S NINE 30 NOW.
IT MAY BE SOMETHING WHERE YOU HAVE TO SAVE C ONE FOR HILLARY.
I THOUGHT IT WAS HOW, HOW COULD THEY CAN'T SCHEDULE YOU ON A PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING NIGHT FOR THE CITIZENS ACADEMY? THAT'S THE, THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE SCHEDULED.
THAT'S WHY I COULDN'T TAKE THE CITIZENS ACADEMY EVERY SINGLE ONE.
BUT THAT'S WHEN THEY DID OUR DEPARTMENT'S NIGHT
[01:45:01]
TO PRESENT.SAYS ACADEMY'S GOTTA BE OVER IN AN HOUR.
WE CANNOT START AT EIGHT O'CLOCK.
HOW ABOUT WE WORK, HAVE THE WORK SESSION AT FOUR O'CLOCK ON THAT DAY.
WHAT? TALKING ABOUT FOUR TO SIX, CAN YOU GUYS DO NOT THE REGULAR, THE MEETING HAS TO BE OVER AT SIX O'CLOCK TO START A CITIZEN ACADEMY AT SIX.
WHY CAN'T WE, WHAT DAY IS THIS? I'M SORRY, ON THE 17TH AT THE WEDNESDAY.
UH, HAVE, WHY CAN'T WE HAVE A REGULAR MEETING EVERY MONTH? YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW YOU, OKAY.
WE WOULD'VE PROBABLY HAD TO BRING THAT AT EXPENSE MEETING.
SO WHAT WOULD WE CALL A REGULAR MEETING AND THEN GO INTO WORK SESSION, WHICH WOULD BE JUST APPROVED MINUTES AND THEN GO INTO A WORK SESSION.
WOULD YOU GUYS BE ABLE TO DO AN EARLY ON THE SEVENTH DAY? BECAUSE THIS ROOM IS GOING TO BE USED FROM SIX TO EIGHT AND LAURA AND SEAN WILL HAVE TO PRESENT AT THAT MEETING FROM SIX TO EIGHT.
BUT THAT WOULD BE A BRUTAL DAY FOR YOU GUYS.
YEAH, THAT WOULD BE A BRUTAL, TODAY'S A BRUTAL DAY.
OH, MAYBE WE, I MIGHT NOT BE HERE.
I CAN DO, I CAN DO THE EVENING.
LET'S SEE WHAT, JUST NOT HAVE ANYTHING ON THE KNOW ON THE 24TH.
WELL, I CAN'T, I CAN'T DO, I CAN'T DO THAT AT JUNE.
IT'S HER APPOINTMENTS AT ONE O'CLOCK OR 11.
THAT WAS A POST-OP APPOINTMENT AFTERWARDS.
SAY YOU'RE GONNA SKIP YOUR WIFE'S SURGERY.
IT I CAN, I I'M GONNA HAVE TO TALK TO HER IN THE CATARACT.
CATARACT WAS TAKING HER BACK TO THE DOCTOR THAT AFTERNOON.
OTHERWISE SHE'LL BE SURGERY ON ME.
UM, YEAH, I'LL PUT A NOTE FOR MYSELF.
I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK I WIFE SAY THAT I'M PUTTING IT IN MY CALENDAR, BUT THE QUESTION, OKAY, WAIT A MINUTE.
SO, SO WHAT, WHAT TIMES WOULD WORK FOR YOU ALL? OR, OR ON BOTH.
I MEAN, I LEAVE WORK AT FIVE AND DRIVE FROM MANASSAS SO EARLY SIX.
BUT I CAN ALWAYS ASK TO GET OFF EARLY FOR THIS KIND OF SITUATION.
SO, UM, SO WE TALKING THE 17TH? YEAH.
THREE O'CLOCK OR LATER 4:00 PM WE'RE JUST LOOKING HERE.
BUT I MIGHT BE ABLE LEARN MY, I SHOULD BE OKAY, BUT I'LL, I'LL I JUST NEED TO ASK MEETING OR UM, OR AT A TIME AS NEEDED BY THE COMMISSION AS A REGULAR MEETING OR AS ADVERTISED.
SO WE CAN, SO THEY CAN DESIGNATE REGULAR MEETINGS WILL BE HELD AT LEAST ONCE EVERY TWO MONTHS.
SO WE COULD, WOULD NOT HAVE TO HAVE ONE.
UM, SPECIAL MEETINGS OR WORKING SESSIONS MAY BE CALLED BY THE CHAIRPERSON OR BY TWO MEMBERS OF UPON WRITTEN REQUEST, SECRETARY OR MEETING FOR, I THINK THEY CAN GOT THE TOOLS YOU NEED.
I THINK THEY CAN CHANGE IT PAGE, DIFFERENT DECK.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WEDNESDAY.
UH, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WEDNESDAY.
I THINK THAT THEY COULD OR A TIME AND PLACE DESIGNATED BY THE COMMISSION AS A REGULAR MEETING WHERE IT'S ADVERTISED.
BUT HE STILL BE ADVERTISED IT.
WE CAN HAVE RIGHT HERE IN DIFFERENT NOW WHEN YOU SAY ADVERTISE, WE DON'T NEED IT IN THE NEWSPAPER.
JUST OUR REGULAR POSTING AND BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A REGULAR MEETING, BUT EVERY TWO, ONCE EVERY TWO MONTHS WE'RE OKAY TO NOT HAVE THE REGULAR MEETING IN DECEMBER.
NO, I'M SAYING I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE IT.
I'M SAYING WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE IT ON THE 17TH.
WELL, WHY DON'T WE HAVE IT ON THE 16TH OR 18TH THAT WAY.
AND THAT WAY WE'RE HAVING ZONING APPEALS.
WE HAVE A BA MEETING AREN'T BECAUSE WE WANT A MEETING.
HOW ABOUT YOU? TUESDAY? TUESDAY AND THURSDAY MY TIME.
YEAH, IT WON'T BE THE MONTH, BUT I WANT DO 10 DAYS.
[01:50:01]
BE FOR THE WORK SESSION.THURSDAY PART TWO, THURSDAY THE 18TH AT SIX O'CLOCK.
HERE EVERYBODY SIX O'CLOCK AT WORK.
SO IT'S GONNA BE 18TH A THURSDAY.
WE JUST DO OUR NORMAL ADVERTISING.
IDENTIFY THE PAPER AND THERE'S NO, WHAT I NORMALLY DO.
SURPRISE, WE MIGHT WANT SOMETHING THERE.
FOR THOSE THINK IT'S ALWAYS THERE.
OH, YOU MEAN PUT IT ON THE DOOR? YEAH, I'VE DONE THAT BEFORE.
SO FOR THE THIRD, FOR NEXT WEEK, MAYBE WE'LL JUST GO OVER SOME OF THE CHANGES TO, YOU GUYS ALREADY DID C ONE, RIGHT? WHY DON'T WE TALK ABOUT THE CHANGES TO THE HOTEL MOTELS? THE DEFINITIONS.
THAT WAS, THAT WAS HUNG WITH YOU GUYS.
YEAH, BECAUSE YOU HAD BEEN WORKING ON IT.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT IS.
WE CAN GET THAT READY FOR NEXT WEEK.
UM, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT DEPENDENT ON JOHN BEING HERE.
WE'RE NOT MEETING NEXT WEDNESDAY A WEEK.
NO, YOU GUYS THANKSGIVING REVIEW.
IT'S BEEN CHANGED THE WORDING TO YEAH, WE HAD TWEAKED IT.
WOULD YOU SEND THAT BACK? TELL ME WHERE.
SO WE'LL DO HOTEL MOTOWN AND THEN, UM, DO YOU GUYS WANNA TALK C TWO? THAT SHOULD BE MINIMAL BECAUSE THAT'S OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT.
NO, WE HAD SOME QUESTIONS IN C ONE TOO.
WELL WE CAN REVIEW THE C ONE AND C TWO.
IT IS SOME OF THE SAME STUFF, YOU KNOW, WITH CUTS ON BUILDING, BUILDING LIGHTS, BUILDING HEIGHT, SETBACKS.
I THINK IT'S JUST AN ERROR WHERE THEY REMOVED THE SETBACK FROM RESIDENTIAL AREA.
THAT JUST NEEDS, THAT'S JUST WRONG.
SO THAT, SO IT'S JUST A REVIEW OF, OF C ONE.
I THINK WE'RE APPARENTLY IN AGREEMENT WITH C ONE AND THEN, BUT IT SET AGAIN, SETBACKS, HEIGHTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THAT WERE CHANGED.
AND SO CON UH, DO YOU WANT ME TO, I EMAIL YOU ALL OF THE WORD DOCUMENTS? IT YEAH.
EVERYTHING THAT YOU WORKED IN TONIGHT.
I'VE BEEN TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH YOU, BUT JUST TO BE SURE.
WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO OH YEAH, NO, ABSOLUTELY.
BECAUSE I SAVED TO THAT SAME FOLDER, THOSE SAME, IT WASN'T SOMEWHERE NEW.
SO YOU JUST, YOU JUST SAVED THE EXISTING DOCUMENT WITH THE NEW CHANGES, IS THAT CORRECT? YEAH.
JUST TO KEEP 'EM ALL TOGETHER.
UM, ACTUALLY IS IT THE EAST CONFERENCE ROOM? THE EMAIL, EAST CONFERENCE ROOM.
BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE USEFUL JUST TO DO JUST A SUPER, SUPER, SUPER QUICK REVIEW OF THIS.
BECAUSE I THINK I SHOWED, I SHOWED WARREN SOME OF THE CHANGES, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS, UM, DOES EVERYBODY USE EXCEL? YES.
SOMEBODY WAS LIKE, OH, YOU KNOW, I REALLY, YOU'RE THE EXCEL GURU.
CAN YOU COME AND HELP ME? IN THE BACK OF MY MIND I WAS LIKE, HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO BET THIS IS SHEET? SURE ENOUGH IT'S SHEET.
AND I'M LIKE, YEAH, NO, I CAN'T HELP YOU.
IT'S ACTUALLY, YEAH, SOME OF THE WORK I DO IS IN SHEETS AND SOME OF IT'S IN EXCEL AND IT'S LIKE, OKAY, GREAT.
THE CODING IS DIFFERENT BETWEEN ALL OF THESE.
SO THE RESIDENTIAL SETBACKS AND STUFF, IS THAT GOING TO BE RESOLVED IN THE REVIEW THAT YOU'RE GONNA DO? WOULD YOU, THAT'S OTHERWISE WE'LL JUST BE DOING THE SAME DISCUSSION THAT'S HOLDING OFF UNTIL JANUARY.
BECAUSE SUPPLEMENTAL CONVERSATION IN DECEMBER, CONNIE IS ALL NOT GONNA MAKE SENSE.
I MEAN IT'S JUST THE FIVE, THE FOUR DOCUMENT.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIMME EXPLANATION.
YOU WANNA WORK ON THE, WHAT DATE DID WE, DID YOU SAY THE, UH, 18TH.
AND I JUST SENT YOU AND LAUREN IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM INVITE.
SO THAT'S IN YOUR, WE'RE WE'RE WORKING ON SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS.
THEN I'VE GOT THAT WRITTEN DOWN.
SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS FOR TOWNHOUSES, APARTMENTS AND NON-CONFORMING.
WE HAVE TWO MEETINGS AND TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW TILL YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THREE NIGHTS.
WE HAVE TO HOLD, JOHN'S GONNA HAVE TO GO.
OH, HE DOESN'T HAVE TO GO TO THAT, THAT ONE.
WE'LL GET THE EAST CONFERENCE.
ARE YOU GETTING THE, THE EMAIL FROM THE EAST CONFERENCE TO PUT IT UP? BRING IT UP ON NO, IT'LL GO THE EMAIL HERE.
[01:55:01]
I DID.WHEN YOU'RE DONE FOR A SECOND.
I WAS LIKE ON CHRISTMAS EVE, WE'LL DO WEEKS.
WE, THERE'S SOME WEEKS WE'VE GOT, I HAVE PLANNING COMMISSION AND COMMISSION MONDAY, AND WE'LL HAVE PROBABLY A SNOWSTORM THAT WEEK.
SO EVERY DOG ASK YOU, WE WE HAVE MADE PROGRESS HERE.
ALMOND, I CAN GET THIS BACK IN THERE IF YOU WANT.
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION.
YEAH, I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE TO FOR, WE'LL GO WITH THOSE TWO SUPER QUICKLY.
JUST TO GET A QUICK, QUICK, UM, UH, SO, UM, THIS IS PRETTY MUCH OUTDATED IN CURRENT ARTICLE 11 DEFINITION.
I DON'T THINK I, I'M EXACTLY SURE WHERE WE STAND WITH ALL THE DEFINITIONS.
SO THIS JUST SAYS A YES OR NO.
SO DON'T NECESSARILY, UM, LOOK AT THAT.
UM, I DID UPDATE THIS ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY.
WHY IS THIS NOT, UM, I THINK REACHED, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH SENSE THIS MAKES THIS WAY, BUT THIS IS LIKE COMMERCIAL.
IF YOU CLICK ON ANY OF THESE DOWN ARROWS, YOU CAN FILTER IT.
SO YOU HAVE COMMERCIAL INSTITUTIONAL LSS HELP ME OUT HAND.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS WHEN YOU WERE JUST LOT STANDARDS.
THAT'S ALL THE INFORMATION I PULLED FROM HERE AND JUST PUT IT INTO THE APPLICABLE DISTRICTS.
UM, ORGANIZATIONAL PROHIBITED USES PDN AND RESIDENTIAL.
THEN WHAT I DID UP HERE IS I TRY TO COLOR CODE THEM AS BEST AS POSSIBLE TOO.
I DON'T KNOW HOW ALL WORKED, BUT YOU'LL SEE ALL THESE PLUS SIGNS UP HERE.
THIS IS JUST SO YOU COULD SEE EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, GROUPED TOGETHER.
SO THIS WILL SHOW YOU ANYTHING IN THE AGRICULTURAL AND OPEN SPACE.
UM, UH, I DON'T REMEMBER ANYMORE WHY THAT ONE IS THERE, BUT, UH, OH, I THINK IT'S JUST BECAUSE IF, IF, UM, SO NOTHING PERSISTENT LIVING IS BY RIGHT HERE THE WAY IT STANDS NOW, RIGHT? YES.
YEAH, IT WAS INCOMPLETE IN THE DOCUMENTS.
IF YOU SEE A ZERO THERE, I'M JUST COUNTING THE NUMBERS OF S OR PS, JUST SO YOU KNOW, IF SOMETHING'S JUST, IT'S S AND WHAT'S P I'M SORRY.
SPECIAL USE PERMITTED BY RIGHT.
SO THAT'S JUST TO GIVE QUICK, QUICK VISUALS SAYING, OH, SOMETHING FOR APPLIANCE DOORS AND REPAIR.
THERE'S, IT'S NOT ALLOWED BY SPECIAL USE OR BY RIGHT.
BUT HERE THERE'S A COUNT OF TWO.
SO MUST BE IN TWO OF THE ZONES.
IF WE HAVE A ZONE, YOU EXPAND THE PLUS SIGN AND THEN YOU SEE ALL OF THE, THE, THE DETAILS OF THE COMMERCIAL, RIGHT? SO YOU HAVE COMMERCIAL, COMMUNITY, COMMERCIAL DOWNTOWN, COMMERCIAL HIGHWAY.
AND IN THIS CASE, WHATEVER THAT WAS OVER THERE IS PERMITTED BY RIGHT.
SO I ADDED THESE PLUS MARKS TO COLLAPSE IT.
YOU CAN JUST, YOU CAN CLICK ON THE MINUS SIGN OR THE PLUS SIGN, BUT THAT JUST, THEY'RE JUST, IT IS JUST SUCH A BIG MATRIX, YOU KNOW? BUT THAT KIND OF, UM, HELPS NARROW IT.
SO YOU HAVE YOUR FILTERS AT THE TOP HERE.
THE RED DEFINITIONS ARE THE ONES THAT I HAVE UPDATED, BUT THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN IT'S THE MOST CURRENT UPDATE.
LIKE THE, THE DEFINITION WE WENT OVER TONIGHT THAT NEED TO BE ADDED TO THIS IS, UH, THE, THE ONES THAT YOU HAD ADDED, THEY, THEY NEED TO BE ADDED TO THIS.
THEY NEED TO BE ADDED TO THAT.
THEY NEED TO BE ADDED TO THIS.
BUT THE OTHERS, I THINK WE WERE, I DON'T KNOW IF WE WERE, HOW MANY DEFINITION CHANGES WE WERE MAKING.
I DIDN'T DO A GOOD JOB ON KEEPING TRACK OF THAT.
I JUST WANT TO SHOW YOU, I'LL SEND THIS OUT TO EVERYBODY.
BUT I DON'T WANT ANYBODY I'M TRYING TO DO IS OUR BASELINE DEFINITIONS WHERE THEY ARE RIGHT NOW.
THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO, TRYING TO GET TO.
SO IS THIS OUR BASELINE FOR ALL THE DEFINITIONS? YEAH.
SO AS WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING AND ADDING NEW DEFINITIONS, WE NEED TO HAVE BEEN THAT I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE THAT I DID.
DO WE HAVE A DOCUMENT WITH ALL THE MOST CURRENT DEFINITIONS? THAT'S WHAT I'M AFRAID OF.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS AFRAID OF TOO.
I DON'T KNOW THAT I, I DON'T KNOW.
[02:00:01]
I WAS AT ONE POINT TRYING TO BE REALLY GOOD ABOUT THAT.BUT THEN I THINK SOMETHING CONFUSING.
WOULD YOU DO ME A FAVOR AND ADD THOSE FOUR NEW DEFINITIONS AND THEN, THEN SEND THIS OUT TO EVERYBODY? YEP.
AND I'LL, I'LL, AND THEN WE CAN BOTH GO BACK AND COUNCIL'S ALSO AMENDED THE CODE.
A DU, WE HAVEN'T YET THE DESIGNATED SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE.
WE'VE GOT ATED SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE.
SO AFTER MONDAY WE'RE POTENTIALLY ADDING ALL OF THOSE DEFINITIONS IN AND UPDATING THIS CHART.
SO MAYBE YOU WANNA JUST SEND ME THOSE AND I'LL UPDATE THAT.
AND, AND, AND ALAN, IF YOU WANT ME TO SEND IT TO YOU ONLY AND YOU CAN REVIEW THAT, THAT WOULD BE HANDY.
OR TOO, IF YOU DON'T MIND, POPPING IN MAYBE TUESDAY, IF YOU'RE TUESDAY IS A HARD DAY FOR ME NOW.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS? 9 92 BUCKS A MONTH.
THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYBODY FOR.