* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. THE ADDITIONAL MOTION. [00:00:02] ALRIGHT. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, SHOULD WE READ ALL THE STUFF FOR CLOSED IN THE BEGINNING OR WAIT TO ADD THE STUFF FOR CLOSED? 'CAUSE WE'VE GOT TWO CLOSE. WE GOT THIS PART AND THEN WE HAVE ONE AT THE END. THE REVISED MOTION DUE WHEN YOU GO IN THE CLOSE, THE SECOND ACT USE THE REVISED MOTION. THERE'S FOR THE SECOND TIME. THERE IS NONE FOR THE FIRST CLOSE. GOT TWO CLOSE TONIGHT. ALRIGHT. DO WE, I ONLY SO THERE IS NO COME BACK. WE HAVE TO, RIGHT? I KNOW. OKAY. IT'S IN YOUR, IT SHOULD BE A BOX, RIGHT? OKAY. I GOT IT IN CASE ANYBODY NEEDS IT. REVISE CLOSED IT THE SECOND. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I GOTCHA. YOU READY, CHARLES? YEP. OKAY. [Town Council Work Session on October 6, 2025.] I'M GONNA CALL TO ORDER THE, UM, FRONT ROOM TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION FOR OCTOBER 6TH TO ORDER. AND, UM, MS. PRESLEY, CAN WE DO A ROLL CALL? MAYOR CO ROLE HERE. VICE MAYOR VIAL HERE. COUNCILWOMAN Z DEMON PAYNE. DEAR COUNCILMAN HERE. COUNCIL BACKPORT? HERE. HERE. COUNSEL HERE. OKAY. SO OUR FIRST ITEM, UH, FOR TONIGHT IS A CLOSED MEETING. DO I HEAR A MOTION? MADAM MAYOR? I MOVE THE TIME COUNCIL CONVENE A CLOSED MEETING PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 2.2371 AND 2.2 DASH 3 7 2, THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSE, PURSUANT TO 2.2 DASH 3 7 1. A1, THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR THE DISCUSSION, CONSIDERATION, OR INTERVIEWS OF PROSPECTIVE CANDIDATES FOR EMPLOYMENT ASSIGNMENT, APPOINTMENT, PROMOTION, PERFORMANCE MOTION, SALARY, DISCIPLINING OR RESIGNATION SPECIFIC PUBLIC OFFICERS, APPOINTEES OR EMPLOYEES OF ANY PUBLIC BODY. MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW AND THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS. SECOND MOTION CALL. COUNCILMAN WOOD. YES. VICE MAYOR FEL? YES. COUNCIL OCK? YES. COUNCILMAN RAPPAPORT HERE? YES. COUNSEL? YES. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO WE CAME BACK OUT OF CLOSE AND SO, UM, WE HAVE SOME ACTION ITEMS TONIGHT AT OUR RECESSION. ITEM THREE A, UM, COUNSEL HAS REQUESTED TO AWARD A CONTRACT TO BARRY DUNN MCNEIL AND PARKER BARRY DUN, TO PROVIDE PROJECT MANAGEMENT AND IMPLEMENTATION ASSISTANCE FOR ENTERPRISE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT SOFTWARE IN THE AMOUNT OF $212,376. BARRY DUNN ASSISTED THE TOWN IN SELECTING A NEW SOFTWARE VENDOR AND IS FAMILIAR WITH THE SOFTWARE SELECTED BY THE TOWN AS WELL AS CURRENT TOWN PROCESSES. THE TOWN HAS NEVER PERFORMED A SOFTWARE CONVERSION OF THIS MAGNITUDE. IMPLEMENTATION OF NEW SOFTWARE WILL REQUIRE TRAINING ON STAFF CHANGE, EXCUSE ME, CHANGES OF PROCESSES AND IMPLEMENTING ENTIRELY NEW PROCESSES. ACTUALLY, AS PROJECT MANAGER BARRY DUN WILL OVERSEE PROJECT SCHEDULES, FACILITATE DATA CONVERSION PROCESSES, IDENTIFY OPPORTUNITIES TO LEVERAGE TECHNICAL ENHANCEMENTS, IDENTIFY MITIGATE RISKS, OVERSEE TESTING, TRAINING, AND PROVIDE GO LIVE SUPPORT. UM, COUNSEL IS AWARE OF, UM, THE SOFTWARE. WE'VE ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY MENTIONED HERE ABOUT AUGUST 11TH, BUT WE'VE ALSO BEEN AWARE THAT THESE WERE, UM, SOMETHING THAT THE TOWN WAS, UM, LOOKING INTO RESEARCHING, HAVING PEOPLE COME IN AND DO SOME TRAINING, ALL KINDS OF THINGS. SO, UM, I WOULD EN ENTERTAIN A MOTION, NOT A MAYOR. I MEAN, WAIT, DO YOU WANT ME TO SAY SOMETHING? YOU HAVE TO REISE, RIGHT? THE REISE MAYOR. HE DONE NOT IT, IT'S JUST FINE. DOES FILE NEXT. YOU I WAS LIKE, I WAS LIKE, WAIT. OKAY. I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. I MOVE THAT. COUNSEL AUTHORIZED THE AWARD OF CONTRACTS TO BARRY DUNN MCNEIL AND PARKER BARRY DUNN TO PROVIDE PROJECT MANAGEMENT AND IMPLEMENTATION, IMPLEMENTATION ASSISTANCE FOR ENTERPRISE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT SOFTWARE IN THE AMOUNT OF $212,000, $212,376 WITH THE CONTRACT TO BE APPROVED BY THE TOWN MANAGER AND TOWN ATTORNEY, SIR. OKAY. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL RIGHT, LET'S DO A ROLL CALL. COUNCILMAN WOOD? YES. VICE MAYOR FEL? YES. COUNCIL ? YES. COUNCIL RAPPAPORT? YES. COUNCIL ? YES. COUNCILMAN ? YES. OKAY. MOTION PASSES. SO, NEXT IS ITEM, UM, THREE B AND, UM, SORRY. AND THE SUMMARY IS, COUNCILS REQUESTED TO ORDER CONTRACT TO UNI BEARS INCORPORATED A SUBSIDIARY OF BLUE OCEAN SYSTEMS, LLC FOR ENTERPRISE RESOURCE PLANNING SOFTWARE IN THE AMOUNT OF 662,300 $366 AND 63 CENTS FOR ONE YEAR WITH ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTION FEES FOR YEARS TWO THROUGH FIVE IN THE AMOUNT OF $218,996 ANNUALLY IS SHOWN BELOW. NOW THIS IS, UM, THERE IS [00:05:01] A DOCUMENT THAT'S BEEN GIVEN THE COUNCIL, AND SO THE NUMBERS CHANGED A LITTLE BIT, JUST A LITTLE TWEAKING THERE. UM, BUT FOR THE PUBLIC'S KNOWLEDGE, THE IMPLEMENTATION AND PROFESSIONAL SERVICES FEES, UH, WOULD BE $467,270 AND 63 CENTS. YEAR ONE SUBSCRIPTION FEES, UM, IS UM, $218,996 FOR A TOTAL OF $686,226 AND 63 CENTS. YEAR TWO SUBSCRIPTION FEE IS $218,996 AND YEAR THREE, FOUR AND FIVE ARE THE SAME AS YEAR TWO. THE TOWN CONTRACT WITH BARRY DIAMOND, NEIL AND PARKER, L-L-C-A-K-A TO PROVIDE SOFTWARE CONSULTING SERVICES FOR THE TOWN TO ASSIST THE TOWN SELECTING A NEW ENTERPRISE RESOURCE PLANNING SOFTWARE PROVIDER. ONE OF THE PRIMARY GOALS FOR NEW SOFTWARE WAS TO ALLOW THE TOWN TO IMPLEMENT AUTOMATED METERING INFRASTRUCTURE, A MI, AS WELL AS MORE INFORMATIVE UTILITY BILLS AND MORE OPTIONS FOR TOWN UTILITY ACCOUNT HOLDERS. THE UNIVERSE SOFTWARE CONTRACT THAT IS BEING PROPOSED DOES NOT INCLUDE SOFTWARE FOR BILLING OF REAL ESTATE AND THE PERSONAL PROPERTY TAXES. THE TOWN CURRENTLY USES THE AI MUNICIPAL SOFTWARE FOR THE BILLING CASHIERING OF PERSONAL PROPERTY AND REAL ESTATE SOFTWARE, WHICH IS ABLE TO RECEIVE FILES DIRECTLY FROM THE WARREN COUNTY COMMISSIONER OF REVENUE'S OFFICE. THE TOWN INTENDS TO CONTINUE USING VA I MUNICIPAL SOFTWARE FOR BILLING AND REAL ESTATE PERSONAL PROPERTY TAXES. AT THIS TIME, UNIVER HAS AGREED TO BUILD A CUSTOM PROGRAM TO ALLOW RECEIVING OF TAX PAYMENTS IN THE UNI SYSTEM, WHICH WILL ALLOW THE TOWN TO USE ONE SOFTWARE FOR RECEIVING RATHER THAN THE TOWN RUNNING TWO CASHIER SYSTEMS AS DONE CURRENTLY. SO THE BUDGET FUNDING FOR THIS IS IMPLEMENTATION OF PROFESSIONAL SELF SERVICE FEES OR A ONETIME CHARGE FOR INSTALLATION, TRAINING AND CONVERSION OF THE TOWN'S EXISTING DATA. YEAR ONE FUNDING'S GONNA COME FROM THE ELECTRIC METER READING MACHINERY AND EQUIPMENT 600, $686,266 63 CENTS. AND THE YEAR TWO THROUGH FIVE IS INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY MAINTENANCE SERVICE CONTRACT IN THE AMOUNT OF $218,996. AND UNLESS WE NEED TO PRESENT ANYTHING, I WE'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. MADAM MAYOR, I MOVE THE COUNCIL THROUGH THE AWARD OF THE CONTRACT. FIRST, THE NRIS INC. A SUBSIDIARY BLUE OCEAN SYSTEM, LLC FOR ENTERPRISE RESOURCE PLANNING SOFTWARE IN THE AMOUNT OF $686,266 AND 63 CENTS FOR YEAR ONE WITH ANNUAL SUBSCRIPTION FEES FOR YEARS TWO THROUGH FIVE, THE AMOUNT OF TWO $18,996 EACH ANNUALLY WITH THE CONTRACT TO BE APPROVED BY THE TOWN MANAGER AND TOWN ATTORNEY. SO, HEY, THERE IS A MOTION. AND SECOND, ANY DISCUSSION? HALLELUJAH. THAT, THAT IS MY, I I WAS JUST GONNA SAY THANK YOU TO STAFF, UM, FOR, UM, ALL THE WORK THAT WENT INTO THIS. 'CAUSE I KNOW IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR MONTHS. YEAH. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE MORE EFFICIENT SOFTWARE. I THINK OUR CITIZENS ARE GONNA BE HAPPY FOR THOSE OPPORTUNITIES AS WELL. AND I KNOW THIS IS A BIG UNDERTAKING THAT YOU'VE ALREADY DONE, AND NOW IT'S GONNA BE A BIG UNDERTAKING FOR YOU ALL TO ALL GET TRAINED IN THIS. BUT THANK YOU, UM, PAID FOR ITSELF. UM, I'VE GOTTA GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AS FAR AS THE TIMELINE AT THIS POINT. OKAY. ANY, IF THERE'S NO OTHER DISCUSSION, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND DO ROLL CALL. COUNCILMAN WOOD? YES. I SWEAR, RIGHT? YES. COUNCILMAN ? YES. COUNCIL REPPORT? YES, YES, YES. OKAY. NEXT UP IS ITEM THREE C. UH, COUNSEL'S REQUESTED TO AWARD A CONTRACT TO PAYMENTUS. AM I SAYING THAT PAYMENTUS TO PROVIDE MERCHANT SERVICES FOR PAYMENT PROCESSING. UNIVAR SOFTWARE IS DESIGNED TO WORK WITH PAYMENTUS TO STREAMLINE PAYMENT PROCESSING IN PERSON AND ONLINE, AS WELL AS PROVIDE AUTOMATED BANK RECONCILIATIONS. UNIVAR SOFTWARE IS CAPABLE OF USING OTHER MERCHANT SERVICE PROVIDERS, BUT SOME FUNCTIONALITY MAY BE LOST USING A DIFFERENT MERCHANT SERVICE PROVIDER. UM, THEIR, THE TOWN, I'M SORRY, PAYMENT IS, WILL NOT BILL THE TOWN FOR PAYMENT PROCESSING SERVICES. UM, SO I CAN ENTERTAIN A MOTION OR IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF NOW, DO THAT NOW. MADAM MAYOR. I MOVE COUNCIL AUTHORIZED THE AWARD OR CONTRACT TO, TO PROVIDE MERCHANT SERVICES FOR PAYMENT PROCESSING AT NO COST TO THE TOWN IF THE CONTRACTOR BE APPROVED BY THE TOWN MANAGER AND TOWN ATTORNEY. CORRECT. [00:10:01] HEY, MOTION. SECOND. ANY SESSION. IT'S A REALLY COMMON PAYMENT PLATFORM FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT BE WONDERING WHAT TO EXPECT. I THINK MY INTERNET PROVIDER GLOW FIBER USES PAYMENT AS MY, UM, EVERY UTILITY ASSOCIATED WITH MY HOUSE BASICALLY USES BILL HIDE, BILL PAY BY PAYMENT. AND IT'S VERY CONVENIENT, EASY TO UTILIZE. SO I'LL JUST ADD, YOU KNOW, IT ALLOWS YOU TO DO A CH ELECTRONIC TRANS TRANSACTIONS AND IT'S JUST THE WAY THINGS ARE HEADED THESE DAYS. ALL RIGHT. NOW I GOT A QUESTION. SO THOSE OF US THAT ARE ALREADY HAVING OUR ELECTRIC BILLS THAT ARE JUST TAKING OUT OF OUR, YOU KNOW, BANK ACCOUNT AND A CREDIT CARD, WILL, WILL WE HAVE TO SET UP SOMETHING NEW WITH THIS? YES MA'AM. IT'LL BE AN ENTIRELY NEW SETUP. OKAY. UH, EVERY UTILITY ACCOUNT HOLDER WILL HAVE THEIR OWN PORTAL TO GO IN AND THEY CAN SET IT UP ON THE FLY. 50 CENTS, I THINK, ISN'T IT? I'M SORRY. DID I SAY 50 CENTS? YES, MA'AM. THAT'S CORRECT. E EVEN TO TAKE IT OUTTA YOUR CHECKING ACCOUNT? YES, MA'AM. OKAY. BUT I GUESS THAT'S STILL CHEAPER THAN MAILING IT UNLESS YOU WELL, IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING IT ELECTRONICALLY. YOU'RE NOT GIVING 'EM A PAPER CHECK. RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH, I'M JUST NOT USED TO THAT. I DON'T PAY ANYTHING FOR IT NOW. SO ANYWAY. WELL, IT'S LESS, IT IS LESS THAN THE CREDIT CARD AND CREDIT CARD. IT'S LIKE TWO POINT. I WOULD'VE NEVER USED THE CREDIT CARD FOR THAT REASON. SO ANYWAY. OKAY. UM, WE WILL DO ROLL CALL. COUNCIL WOOD? YES. VICE MAYOR AL? YES. COUNCILMAN ? YES. COUNCILMAN RAMPORT? YES. COUNCILMAN NEGRO? YES. COUNCILMAN? YES. OKAY. NEXT UP IS ITEM 3D. COUNSEL HAS REQUESTED TO APPROVE A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE TOWN ATTORNEY AND TOWN MANAGER TO EXECUTE A PARTICIPATION FORM NECESSARY FOR THE TOWN TO BE A PARTICIPATING SUBDIVISION IN THE SETTLEMENT OF OPIOID RELATED CLAIMS INVOLVING, I'M SURE I'M GONNA SAY THESE WRONG, VO AMNE, APOTEX, , ANDOR, MYLAN SON, AND SATU, THE MANUFACTURERS, HOW THEY'RE GONNA BE. UM, AND I WILL JUST SAY THAT I BELIEVE THIS IS THE THIRD TIME THAT WE HAVE PASSED RESOLUTION TO BASICALLY JOIN IN ON A SETTLEMENT, UM, AGREEMENT OR SETTLEMENT PARTICIPATION AND FOR THE PUBLIC'S KNOWLEDGE, UM, EVEN IF THIS SETTLEMENT IS SUCCESSFUL, ANY MONEY THAT'S RECEIVED FROM THIS SETTLEMENT JUST AS IT WAS FROM THE FIRST SETTLEMENT, UM, IS IT ALL GOES TO THE COUNTY. UH, BECAUSE WE'RE A TOWN INSIDE OF A COUNTY. SO HOWEVER, THEY ASK FOR ALL, UH, LOCAL, UM, LOCALITIES THAT ARE AFFECTED BY THEY, THEY ASK FOR ALL OF US TO JOIN IN, IN THE LAWSUIT, SO TO SPEAK. GREAT. SO THAT, UM, IT'S MORE POWERFUL. SO WE WON'T SEE ANY MONEY FROM THIS. THE COUNTY WILL SEE MONEY, WHICH IN TURN IMPACTS THE TOWN CITIZENS AS WELL. AND MRS, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE I LEFT OUT? NO, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD. OKAY. ALRIGHT. I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. I MOVE THE COUNCIL, APPROVE THE RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE TOWN ATTORNEY AND TOWN MANAGER TO EXECUTE THE SETTLEMENT PARTICIPATION FORM. SECOND. OKAY. THERE'S NO DISCUSSION. ROLL CALL COUNCILOR WOOD. YES, THANKS. MAYOR FEL? YES. COUNCILMAN SEA LOTT? YES. COUNCILMAN REPPORT? YES. COUNCIL INGRAM? YES. COUNCIL? YES. OKAY. MOVING ON TO NEW BUSINESS. ITEM FOUR A IS THE PURCHASE OF SCHOOLS AND FLASHING BEACON SYSTEMS. AND I BELIEVE MS. CAMPBELL IS GONNA BE PRESENTING ON THAT. THAT'S YOUR ONLY ONE TONIGHT. LUCKY YOU. GREAT. I CAN . UM, COUNCIL IS REQUESTED TO APPROVE THE PURCHASE OF 13 TAPCO SCHOOL ZONE FLASHING BEACON SYSTEMS ALONG WITH SIX REPLACEMENT SOLAR MODEMS FOR EXISTING UNITS FROM CONTROL TECHNOLOGIES INCORPORATED IN THE AMOUNT OF $103,858. THIS PROCUREMENT IS BEING CONDUCTED AS A SOLE SOURCE PURCHASE. THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY SERVICE IS STANDARDIZING THEIR EQUIPMENT ACROSS ALL SCHOOL ZONES. UH, AND THE TECO PRODUCT LINE IS ALREADY INSTALLED AND EXISTS IN SIX LOCATIONS. CONTROL TECHNOLOGIES INCORPORATED IS THE EXCLUSIVE PROVIDER OF TCO SCHOOLS AND INFLATION SPEAKING SYSTEM IN VIRGINIA. UH, ALSO IN MAY, 2025, COUNCIL APPROVED A BUDGET AMENDMENT AND TRANSFER OF $107,200 FROM THE AUTOMATED SCHOOL. SPEED CAME ON. REVENUES RECEIVED FROM BLUE LINE SOLUTIONS TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY SERVICES TO PURCHASE THE SCHOOL FLASH AIR REPLACEMENT. OKAY. UM, DOES COUNCIL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OR DO YOU KNOW IF ANY OF THE REPLACEMENT SOLAR MODEMS ARE OUT RIGHT NOW ON THE ONES THAT WE HAVE EXISTING? ARE THEY OUT, [00:15:01] ARE THEY NOT WORKING? YEAH, I DON'T. OKAY. I DIDN'T KNOW IF THEY WERE TO REPLACE ONES THAT CURRENTLY DON'T WORK ONCE THE SCHOOLS IN NOTICE ONE FLASHING. OH, I'M NOT. THAT WOULD BE ENERGY QUESTION, BUT I CAN FIND OUT. AND WE'RE GONNA BE PURCHASING 13 OF THOSE, RIGHT? 13 NEW ONES. YES. CHIEF, WE DO HAVE A WORK ORDER IN FOR SOME OF THE SOLAR FOR SOME OF THE SCHOOLS GUYS. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS? I THINK THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS, UH, JUST THE SCHOOL WARNING. THESE ARE NOT CAMERAS, THESE ARE NOT SPEED READERS. IT'S JUST LIKE WE HAVE OUT HERE ON RURAL AVENUE. THEY COME ON IN A CERTAIN TIME OF DAY AND TELL YOU WHAT THE SPEED LIMIT IS. SO YEAH, THIS IS THIS. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. COUNCILMAN WOOD, THIS IS NO CHANGE TO THE NUMBER OF SCHOOLS THAT ARE ALREADY PART OF THE SPEED CAMERA ENFORCEMENT. THIS IS JUST WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE. JUST PURCHASING NEW ONES, UM, WHICH JUST LIKE IN YOUR HOUSE WHEN YOU HAVE TO REPLACE SOMETHING, SO. YEP. ALRIGHT. IF THERE'S NO, UM, NO, UH, OBJECTION, I WOULD SAY THIS COULD GO ON CONSENT IN OCTOBER. AND DOES ANYBODY, DOES EVERYBODY GO WITH THAT? AGREED. THANK YOU. YOU HAVE A GOOD EVENING. YOU TOO. OUT EARLY. ALRIGHT, SO NEXT UP IS, UM, NEXT UP IS ITEM FOUR B, WHICH IS, UH, BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL EQUIPMENT REIMBURSEMENT, MR. SORRY. SO, UH, REQUESTING THE BRING IN FUNDS FROM A TRAFFIC ACCIDENT THAT WE ALREADY BILL FOR THE, UH, TRAFFIC ACCIDENT. I INCURRED THE EXPENSE. I'M REQUESTING COUNSEL TO, UH, INCREASE THE REVENUE, INCREASE THE EXPENDITURE TO OFFSET THE 51809 CENTS, UH, FORWARDING, REIMBURSE, UH, THE EXPENDITURE, UM, WITH A TRAFFIC ACCIDENT IT WAS SAY, UM, AT THE CORNER OF WESTMINSTER AND JOHN MARSHALL THERE. I CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION. YEAH. YOU GUYS KNOW THE BIG METAL YEAH. BOX THERE. YOU DON'T WANNA HIT HIM 50 TO ABOUT $52,000 THAT THE INSURANCE COMPANY, UM, FOR THE CITIZEN'S INSURANCE HAD TO, TO, UH, UM, UH, REIMBURSE US FOR. SO ANY QUESTIONS? SO EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THIS? ARE YOU GOOD IF WE PUT THIS ON CONSENT MM-HMM. ON THE, ON THE, UM, THE 2020 SEVENTH? OKAY. UH, NEXT UP IS THE BUDGET AMENDMENT TO RECEIVE DMV ALCOHOL AND POLICE TRAFFIC SERVICES GRANTS FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. I'VE BEEN THIS FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS, SO FOR DIFFERENT THINGS, UM, I SPRINGING BACK TO COUNSEL AGAIN FOR 45,058 HOURS. UH, THE GRANT WILL BE USED TO ENHANCE ALCOHOL AND SPEED ENFORCEMENT EFFORTS AND ALSO TO COVER OVERTIME COSTS AND PURCHASE THREE OUR UNITS INTO A PRELIMINARY BREATH TEST FOR THE, UH, POLICE DEPARTMENT THERE. UM, THERE IS A 50% MATCH, UH, BUT WE'LL MATCH WITH THOSE, UH, MATCH THOSE FUNDS WITH FUNDS THAT ARE ALREADY BUDGETED FOR THE CURRENT FISCAL YEAR. OKAY. ANY QUESTION FOR STAFF? ALL RIGHT. AND IF THERE'S NO OBJECTION ON CONSENT AS WELL. OKAY. ITEM, UH, FOUR D IS THE PURCHASE OF FLEX BY MOTOROLA SOLUTION SOFTWARE SUBSCRIPTION PACKAGE UPGRADE. FOUR D IS SAYS FOUR D. OKAY, WE'RE GOOD. UH, YES. SO, UH, PURCHASE OF FLEX MOTOROLA SOLUTIONS, UH, SUBSCRIPTIONS. UM, SO REQUESTING THE COUNSEL TO APPROVE THIS, UH, PROCUREMENT HERE. UH, THE SOFTWARE'S GOING TO BE USED TO UPDATE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND PROVIDE ADDITIONAL NEEDED FEATURES FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, ALLOWING STREAMLINED COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN UNITS, ENSURE ACCURATE RECORDS MANAGEMENT SUPPORT FASTER, MORE INFORMED DECISION, UH, MAKING IN THE FIELD. AS FAR AS BUDGETING GOES, UM, UH, MOTOROLA HAS AGREED TO CREDIT US FOR THE FIRST YEAR PAYMENT THAT WE'VE ALREADY SENT IN FOR OUR CURRENT SUBSCRIPTION OF THE $35,335. UM, AND THEN, UH, STAFF WOULD PROCESS A, UH, BUDGET TRANSFER TO COVER THE REMAINING $43,150. UH, 32,440 WOULD COME FROM, UH, WHAT WE HAD PREVIOUSLY BUDGETED FOR THE BODY-WORN CAMERAS A FEW MONTHS AGO. COUNSEL APPROVED A BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR THE BODY-WORN CAMERAS TO PAY THOSE AND LUMP SUM. UH, SO WE HAVE THOSE FUNDS AVAILABLE. AND THEN THE, UH, REMAINING $10,710 WE WOULD TAKE FROM LAPS SALARIES, UH, FOR VACANT POSITIONS, UM, UH, TO HELP COVER THAT, UH, FOR THE FIRST YEAR AND THEN YEARS TWO THROUGH FIVE, WE WOULD BUDGET ACCORDING ACCORDINGLY, UH, IN THE, UH, UH, UPCOMING BUDGETS. CURRENTLY WE'RE BUDGETING ABOUT $35,000 THERE AS WE PAID OUT THIS YEAR. UH, SO IT WOULD BE ABOUT A $17,000 [00:20:01] INCREASE YEAR, THE YEAR. UM, ANY QUESTIONS ON SOFTWARE? I HAVE CHIEF HERE PROBABLY HELP ME OUT A LITTLE BIT. I HAD, UM, I HAD SEVERAL QUESTIONS ACTUALLY, AND I KNOW THEY'RE A BIT IN THE WEEDS, BUT I THINK IT'D BE INTERESTING FOR THE PUBLIC TO KNOW, I GUESS. UM, AND I THINK CHIEF MIGHT ANSWER ASKED US, SO WHEN I READ THIS, IT SOUNDED LIKE DATA COULD BE ENTERED ANY TIME. RIGHT? SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, IS DO YOU, I KNOW THAT THEY, HOLD ON ONE SECOND. OH YEAH. CHIEF, DO YOU MIND COMING UP FOR YEAH. THAT AND THAT WAY HE'S ON THE CAMERA AND YOU'RE NOT TURNING AROUND. OKAY. WOULD PEOPLE CAN'T HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING OR WHAT HE'S SAYING EITHER. OKAY. LIKE I SAID, THESE ARE IN THE WEEDS, BUT I THINK IT'S INTERESTING INFORMATION ANYWAY. UM, I KNOW THAT THEY, YOU'RE GONNA DO A WHOLE TRANSITION OF DATA RIGHT. TO THE NEW SYSTEM. BUT MY QUESTION IS, UM, DO YOU DO LIKE AN AUDIT LIKE PERIODICALLY? BECAUSE LIKE, WHAT IF, WHAT IF DATA GETS ENTERED AND IT'S INACCURATE? LIKE HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU LIKE CROSS REFERENCE TO MAKE SURE YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO DEEP TOO DEEP, BUT I'M JUST SAYING LIKE, DO YOU DO A PERIODIC AUDIT? WE DO HAVE PERSONNEL THERE THAT, IN OUR RECORDS THAT DO KEEP TRACK OF IT. 'CAUSE YOU DO HAVE PEOPLE THAT ADD INFORMATION THAT DOES NOT BELONG OR IS DUPLICATE IT, THAT IS CONSOLIDATED TO ONE. SO THERE IS SOMEBODY THAT DOES GO THROUGH IT ON OUR END. OKAY. COOL. AND THEN, UM, UH, AND WAS LOOKING AT THAT CHAIN OF CUSTODY OF EVIDENCE, UM, AND HOW THAT GETS SHARED. LIKE RIGHT NOW IS, IS CHAIN OF CUSTODY INFORMATION SHARED LIKE ALL THROUGHOUT THE DEPARTMENT OR IS IT LIKE, AS NEED TO KNOW? SO WHEN I DO A REPORT AND I END MY, MY PROPERTY INTO EVIDENCE, UM, I HAVE THAT IN THAT REPORT. SO IF I PULL THAT REPORT UP OR IF HE PULLS THAT REPORT A PIECE PART OF MY STAFF, HE CAN SEE WHERE THAT EVIDENCE IS LOGGED IN. THAT'S JUST SHOWING WHERE THAT EVIDENCE IS. AND THEN OUR EVIDENCE CLERK, THEY, SHE WOULD LOG IN AND THEN SHOW WHERE SHE TAKES IT TO THE LAB AND THEN RECEIVES THAT AND BRINGS IT BACK. ALL THAT'S FOR COURT, COURT, COURT PURPOSES. AND WHEN WE DO IS WHEN WE SEND THAT OVER THROUGH ANOTHER SYSTEM CALLED VAULT THAT GOES DIRECTLY TO THE COMMONWEALTH ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, UM, LIKE GEORGE IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH IT. WHEN WE SEND THAT OVER, THEY HAVE THIS WHOLE PACKAGE TO THEM. IT'S JUST PART OF THE PROCESS JUST STAMPING THROUGH THE COMPUTER SYSTEM. AND THEN DOES, BUT DOES EVERYBODY HAVE ACCESS TO IT? EVERYBODY? LIKE, DOES EVERYBODY KNOW WHEN, WHEN ANYBODY THAT HAS, IF YOU, IF YOU WERE A MEMBER OF MY TEAM AND YOU HAVE ACCESS TO FLEX AND YOU KNEW THE REPORT NUMBER, YOU COULD ENTER THAT. HOWEVER, IF I NEED TO LOCK THAT REPORT DOWN, I CAN LOCK ANYBODY OUT OF IT. AND IT'S JUST FOR THAT, UM, CUSTODY OF THAT OFFICER. OKAY. COOL. AND THEN, UM, IF YOU COULD JUST, UM, AND, AND ALSO JUST TWO MORE QUESTIONS. ONE IS, LOOKS LIKE IT HAS A LOT OF BELLS AND WHISTLES. IT DOES. UM, AND UM, LIKE, YOU KNOW, MY UNDERSTANDING IS WHEN FOLKS GET ON THE RADIO, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU'RE GONNA HEAR WHAT OFFICER'S GOING TO HEAR THERE, WHATEVER, EVERYBODY HEARS THAT. IS IT TOO MUCH LIKE, OR WILL THEY HAVE TOO MUCH ON THE SCREEN? HOW DISTRACTING IS THAT? SO THE, THE WAY OUR SYSTEM WORKS, AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO A RIDE ALONG SO YOU CAN SEE IT, UM, WHAT IT DOES IS THAT SYSTEM CAN TALK TO THE OFFICERS WHILE THEY'RE GOING DOWN THE ROAD. SO IF THEY GONNA UPDATE A CALL, IT'LL TELL THEM IN THEIR CAD, UH, WE CAN DISPATCH FROM THAT. SO IF WE NEED TO GO RADIO, RADIO SILENT, WE CAN DO THAT AS SUCH. BEFORE WE JUST HIT IN ONE KEY, WE'RE MARKING ON SINGLE MARKETING ROUTE. UM, ALL OF OUR RADIOS ARE ENCRYPTED, SO WE CAN DO EITHER, EITHER WAY. UM, BUT WE LIKE TO KEEP THE RADIO SYSTEM OPEN BECAUSE THAT WAY WE CAN GET EMERGENCY TRAFFIC OUT. SO THEY CAN DO ONE KEYS AND ONE TOUCH. THE, THE SYSTEM WILL DO A LOT TO WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A WHOLE LOT TO JUST TOUCH SCREEN AND THEY'RE JUST PLUGGING IT IN. SO. OKAY. AND THEN MY LA MY LAST QUESTION IS, SO LIKE WITH ALL THE BELLS AND WHISTLES AND DOING AN UPGRADE, WHAT PROBLEM DO YOU THINK THIS IS SOLVING, UH, IS BRING THIS TO THE FUTURE? UH, 'CAUSE I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW OUR SYSTEM HAS NOT BEEN UPGRADED SINCE 2016 AND TRYING TO CATCH PATCHES AND WITH OUR G AND OUR GIS SYSTEM IN THERE, IT IS GONNA GIVE REAL TIME INFORMATION CALL HISTORY FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL HOUSE THAT WE USED TO HAVE THAT WE NO LONGER HAVE WITH THIS COMING INTO PLAY NOW WE'RE GONNA HAVE THAT, THAT UPDATED SYSTEM AND THEN ALSO THE NOTIFICATION GO IN PUBLIC. THERE'S ALL THESE OTHER MODULES THAT WE CAN COLLECT INSTEAD OF BUYING THEM, WE'RE, WE'RE BUYING INTO THE SUBSCRIPTION, UH, KIND OF LIKE IF YOU WOULD WITH THE, UH, MICROSOFT OFFICE SUITE IF YOU WILL. MM-HMM . UM, SO BASICALLY WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT, WHEN WE'RE READY FOR IT, WE WOULD, UH, NOTIFY MOTOROLA AND THEY WOULD UPLOAD THAT MODULE FOR US. THEY'RE NOT GONNA THROW 'EM ALL ON US AND SAY OKAY. THEY JUST FIGURE IT OUT AS THEY SEE WHEN OUR SYSTEM IS READY THEY SAY, OKAY, YOU CAN PROBABLY TAKE ON THIS, THEY'LL GIVE IT TO US. UM, BUT IT'S GONNA DO A LOT OF THINGS AND IT'S GONNA HELP US GET NOTIFICATIONS OUT TO THE PUBLIC AS WELL. COOL. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NO, THAT'S THOUGHT YOU HAD A QUESTION. NO, NOT REALLY. NOT AFTER ALL THAT I APPRECIATE YOUR THOROUGHNESS. I'LL TAKE YOU UP ON THAT. BRIGHT. WELL, THANK YOU. ALRIGHT. WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST TURN A SPOTLIGHT ON. SO [00:25:01] IF EVERYBODY, NOW, IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH PUTTING THIS ON CONSENT? YES. ANY OBJECTION? ALL RIGHT. SO NEXT UP IS MR. PETTY'S GONNA TALK WITH US ABOUT THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT TO TOWN CODE FOUR DASH 43 APPOINTMENTS, DUTIES TOWN ENGINEER. YES. UH, THANK YOU MADAM MAYOR. UM, OUR TOWN CODE CURRENTLY LISTS ONE POSITION THAT IS APPOINTED BY THE TOWN MANAGER AND THAT IS THE TOWN ENGINEER. AND THAT, UH, CODE SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT THEY ARE APPOINTED BY THE TOWN MANAGER AND THEN OVERSEES ALL OF PUBLIC WORKS OVER TOWN. AS YOU RECALL, DURING THE BUDGET PROCESS, WE WERE DISCUSSING A DEPUTY OF PUBLIC WORKS AND A TOWN ENGINEER. OUR, OUR INTENT IS TO BRING ON A TOWN ENGINEER, CERTIFIED TOWN ENGINEER THAT WOULD WORK WITHIN PUBLIC WORKS. AND CURRENTLY THAT WOULD CONFLICT WITH HOW CODE IS WRITTEN. SO OUR UH, REQUEST IS TO JUST STRIKE THAT FROM THE CODE AND ALLOW US TO PUT THE TOWN ENGINEER WITHIN PUBLIC WORKS WORK UNDER THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS. AND THIS WOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF TOWN CODE. AS IT STILL REFERENCES THE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE PLANNING ENERGY SERVICES PUBLIC WORKS THROUGHOUT THE TOWN CODE, BUT THESE ARE NOT, UH, APPOINTED POSITIONS. THEY'RE JUST, UH, STAFF THROUGHOUT. UM, SO WE ARE JUST RECOMMEND STRIKING THAT SPECIFIC SECTION. WE'RE NOT RECOMMENDING REMOVING THE TOWN ENGINEER FROM ANY OTHER PART OF THE TOWN CODE IN WHICH THEY, UH, GIVE GUIDANCE IN THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, UH, LAND AND DESIGN CHARACTERISTICS AND PERFORMANCE, UH, DEVELOPMENT. SURE. SO THE TOWN ENGINEER WILL STILL BE REFERENCED IN THERE. THEY WOULD JUST BE A POSITION WITHIN PUBLIC WORKS INSTEAD OF OVERSEEING PUBLIC WORKS. AND OUR INTENTION IS IF THIS WERE TO BE MOVED FORWARD AND APPROVED IN OCTOBER, WE HAVE EVERYTHING PREPARED TO OPEN THAT APPLICATION PROCESS UP FOR THE TOWN ENGINEER WITH HOPES THAT THAT WOULD BE ONBOARDING SOMEBODY BY DECEMBER. DOES THAT, DO ANY COUNCILORS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. PETTY? WELL, ONLY QUICK, SO THE, THE PUBLIC PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR WOULD BE THE HIRING MANAGER, BUT YEAH, HE WOULD BE THE MANAGER AND OBVIOUSLY IF ANYBODY ELSE WOULD WANNA SIT IN, IN THAT INTERVIEW PROCESS. BUT YEAH, THEY WOULD BE UNDER THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS. I'M SORRY, I MISSED, BUT YOU WERE ASKING IF ANYBODY WOULD SIT IN ON THE JUST THEN YEAH, SO THE HIRING PART, YOU KNOW, IF I, BUT YEAH, THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS WOULD BE THE HIRING MANAGER OF A POSITION AND HR WOULD BE A PART OF IT. HR AND ANY, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER POSITION. CORRECT. YEP. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THIS IS GONNA BE A CIVIL ENGINEER. THE THE JOB DESCRIPTION SPECIFIES THE CIVIL ENGINEER TECH ARE, WE'RE GONNA REQUIRE PROFESSIONAL WISE AND A PE. YES. AND DO WE THINK THAT WE CAN POWER THIS PERSON THAT THE SALARIES GO? WE BELIEVE SO, YES. I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THE WAIVING THE CURB AND GUTTER I SAW WHERE THAT WAS THE TOWN ENGINEERS THAT ARE WAITING THE CURB AND GUTTER. SO THAT WON'T FOR THOSE SMALL PROJECTS. NO MORE THAN TWO DWELLING UNITS. I DUNNO WHAT PAGE THIS IS. UM, UH, CURB AND GUTTER IT'S IN. YEAH. LET'S SEE. UM, SOME, I GUESS I WAS JUST WONDERING ABOUT THAT. 'CAUSE LIKE I CALL US DOING THAT. YEAH. GOOD. UM, SO 'CAUSE WE HAVEN'T HAD A TOWN ENGINEER 'CAUSE WE HAVEN'T HAD A TOWN ENGINEER. BUT IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE UM, ARE OKAY, UH, AS COUNSEL, LIKE GIVING UP THAT, GIVING UP THAT I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA GIVE SOME INPUT HERE THAT MAY NOT BE WARMLY RECEIVED, BUT I'M GONNA GIVE IT ANYWAY 'CAUSE I'VE THOUGHT IT FOR A VERY LONG TIME. I I WISH THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING ABOUT WAIVERS. UM, AND, AND I SAY THAT, PLEASE KNOW THAT I SAY THAT ALL SINCERITY OF FIVE YEARS OF OR WILL BE SICK SOON, THAT I'VE, I'VE BEEN SITTING HERE. UM, AND IT'S TRICKY BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE COMING IN OR ASKING FOR THIS, ASKING FOR THAT. AND, YOU KNOW, UM, THEN WE ARE PUT IN A POSITION WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO DECIDE WHETHER THAT'S A VALUABLE WAIVER OR NOT VALUABLE WAIVER. AND REALLY WHEN WE'RE WAIVING THINGS, WE ARE WAIVING, WE'RE LOOKING AT STUFF THAT WE'VE ALREADY SAID WAS VALUABLE. YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALREADY SAID CURB AND GUTTER, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALREADY SAID THIS IS THE FEE FOR THAT. THIS IS THE, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE, THAT COME BEFORE EVEN MOST OF YOU'ALL ARE SITTING HERE, EVEN BEFORE SOME OF [00:30:01] YOU ARE SITTING HERE. YOU KNOW, IT JUST PUTS THE COUNCIL IN A POSITION WHERE, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT IT COULD APPEAR AS THOUGH IT'S, UM, SUBJECTIVE INSTEAD OF OBJECTIVE. UM, AND I REALIZE IT'S ALL OVER THE CODE. SO I'M NOT SAYING YOU KNOW, THAT, BUT I, I REALLY THINK WE OUGHT TO LOOK AT, UM, WHERE THAT EXISTS IN OUR TOWN CODE. AND, AND NOT JUST, UM, MR. PETTY, BUT OTHER TOWN MANAGERS HAVE HAD THESE SAME CONVERSATIONS WITH ME, YOU KNOW, ABOUT, UM, ABOUT WAIVERS AND, AND THAT, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU ALL FEEL ABOUT THAT, BUT THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF, SO THEN IF WE LEAVE IT IN THERE, THEN THE TOWN ENGINEER ENDS UP BEING IN THE POSITION WHERE HE'S TRYING TO DETERMINE IF THIS WAS THE RIGHT, YOU KNOW, TO WAVE THIS OR NOT WAVE THAT. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, IT, IT ALMOST NEEDS TO BE STANDARD. LIKE WE EITHER BELIEVE IT OR WE DON'T BELIEVE IT. WE EITHER BELIEVE THE CURB AND GUTTER, YOU KNOW, UH, SHOULD BE FOR NEW DEVELOPMENTS OR WE DON'T BELIEVE IT OR, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW. I'M THAT SORRY, I, I DIGRESS. BUT WHEN I SEE THAT ON THERE, IT MAKES ME SAY ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WAIVERS AND WE, AND YOU KNOW, I THINK EVEN IN THE LAST THREE MONTHS WE'VE HAD A WAIVER AT ALMOST EVERY MEETING OR SOMETHING OF SOME KIND. SO ANYWAY, THAT'S MY 2 CENTS. IT HAS, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO DO WITH THIS PARTICULAR, IT'S JUST THE BIG PICTURE. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, IF PEOPLE WANNA TAKE THAT OUT, IT'S GONNA ALMOST HAVE TO BE THIS PART, THIS PARTICULAR ONE WILL HAVE TO BE AT THAT PUBLIC HEARING, RIGHT? IT WOULD HAVE, WE'D HAVE TO STRIKE THAT. WELL, I MEAN I COULD, I COULD ARGUE EITHER WAY. 'CAUSE I MEAN AN ENGINEER WOULD KNOW THERE'S QUESTIONS THAT COME UP LIKE DRAINAGE AND, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT WAY BETTER THAN ME. SUBDIVISION. OH YEAH. SUB. SO YEAH, WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF OBVIOUSLY REWRITING THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND SPEAKING WITH THE CONSULTANT ON THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE. THAT CAN BE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY WHERE WHEN WE DO THAT COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW TO REMOVE WAIVER SECTIONS AND HOPEFULLY HAVE AN ENGINEER ON STAFF TO HELP GUIDE US THROUGH THAT PROCESS SO WE CAN MAKE A NOTE THAT THAT IS OF THE QUESTION. AND THEN AS THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT IS GOING THROUGH THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE TO REWRITE, WE CAN MAKE NOTE OF THESE SECTIONS AT THAT TIME THAT WORKS FOR COUNCIL. 'CAUSE THERE MAY BE OTHER SECTIONS THROUGHOUT THERE THAT TALKS ABOUT WAIVERS AND, AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE THAT WE WOULD WANNA DIRECT. AND I THINK VICE, RIGHT? PHIL HAD A QUESTION THAT WAS GONNA BE MY QUESTION BECAUSE THIS REQUIRES A PUBLIC HEARING MM-HMM . AND IF WE CHANGE THE LANGUAGE AS IT'S WRITTEN, IT WOULD NEED TO COME, COME BACK TO COUNCIL TO APPROVE THAT LANGUAGE AND WE WOULD NOT THEN HAVE TIME TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANOTHER OUR WORK SESSION BECAUSE OF EML. SO, AND I DO THINK THAT I ECHO THAT SAME SENTIMENT. UM, ONE OF MY GRANDMOTHER'S RULES IS ALWAYS YOU DON'T KNOW UNLESS YOU ASK. AND SO WE HAVE SO MANY SUBMISSIONS AND AS IT'S GAINED MEDIA POPULARITY AND JUST KNOWLEDGE OF IT, WE GET ASKED FOR WAIVERS OR WHATEVER THE, THE WORD MAY BE FOR MULTIPLE THINGS. AND THESE THINGS ALSO COST THE TOWN MONEY. IT'S OUR STAFF, IT'S OUR ADVERTISING FEES. IT'S A LOT OF WORK THAT GOES INTO IT. AND SO AT WHAT POINT IS THE TOWN IN BUSINESS VERSUS CHARITY? AND I KNOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE AN I RAISING CONCERN, BUT WE'RE PAYING FULL-TIME STAFF TO DO THESE THINGS. AND THEN THE CURB AND GUTTER WAIVERS, THOSE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN UNCOMFORTABLE BECAUSE WHO ARE YOU AND I TO DETERMINE IF THERE'S CURB AND GUTTER NEEDED THERE? WE DON'T HAVE THE BACKGROUND OR EXPERIENCE, UM, TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS. SO IT'S KIND OF BEEN HARD TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE TWO AND LIKE TRY TO PROCESS AND UNDERSTAND AND GO OUT AND LOOK AT THE JOBS AND FIGURE OUT WHERE IT DOES AND DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. AND I THINK THE PLAN IS WE HAVE A FIVE YEAR AND A 10 YEAR PAVING PLAN. LIKE LET 'EM PUT IT IN A BOND AND THEN WHEN WE GET TO IT, WE GET TO IT. THE MONEY'S THERE. SO I WILL SAY THAT, THAT LEADS ME TO A QUESTION I THINK I READ IN THE TOWN CODE THE OTHER DAY. IF THERE'S MONEY PUT UP FOR CURB AND GUTTER WAIVERS IN A BOND, IF IT'S NOT DONE WITHIN TWO YEARS BY THE TOWN, THAT MONEY HAS TO BE PAID BACK. I HAVE THOUGHT, I BELIEVE I READ THAT. I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAD ONE. I READ THAT IN TOWN CODE, SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THAT LAST WEEK THOUGH. AND IT MADE ME CURIOUS TO SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE CHECK TO SEE IF THEIR BOND WAS USED AND IF NOT, HOW MANY HAVE EXPIRED AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I THINK IT WAS TWO YEARS. OH LOOK, THANK YOU. THE SENSE WE DON'T HAVE TOO MANY OUTSTANDING BONDS FOR THAT OLD. SO, UM, YEAH. AND IT SAYS THIS REQUIREMENT MAY BE WAIVED UPON A GROUP OF BY TOWN COUNCIL FOR RESIDENTIAL AREAS, BUT THEN DOWN BELOW THE TOWN MANAGER MAY WAIVE CURB PROJECT PRESIDENT [00:35:01] NO MORE THAN TWO. I'D LIKE IT TO BE FROM US. MM-HMM . OR AS AN OPTION. MM-HMM . SO, SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, IF WE WANT THIS TO GO FORWARD AS IT IS, WE NEED TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING COURT IN OCTOBER. IF WE WERE TO WAIT TO TAKE OUT SOME OF THIS LANGUAGE AS VICE MAYOR AL SAID, IT PUTS US A WHOLE NOTHER MONTH BEHIND. AND SINCE HIRING THE TOWN TOWN IN WHAT, SORRY, SORRY. I WAS GONNA SAY HIRING THE TOWN ENGINEER. SO THIS IS, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WOULD HAVE TO GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION FIRST ANYWAY, IT'S SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE. OKAY. NOT THE ENGINEER. NOT THE ENGINEER. OH, I'M SORRY. GOTCHA. ALL RIGHT. GOOD. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WAIVER, BUT THAT'S, YEP. SO BASICALLY WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, START THE PROCESS OF HIRING THE TOWN ENGINEER AND THEN ASK THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO LOOK INTO PLACES WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT WAIVERS AND THEN HOW THOSE WORDINGS COULD BE CHANGED. ALL RIGHT. IS ANYBODY AGAINST, UM, HOLDING A PUBLIC HEARING ON OCTOBER 27TH ABOUT THIS TOWN ENGINEER POSITION? ARE WE ALL GOOD? AND, AND OBVIOUSLY IT'S A PUBLIC HEARING SO IT'S NOT GOING AND IT'S JUST GONNA REMOVE 4 43. YES. WHICH IS BASICALLY SAYING THAT THEY'LL, SO THEY'RE NO LONGER GONNA BE OVER PUBLIC WORKS, BUT THEY'RE GONNA BE OKAY. AND THEN YOU'LL ADD TO A FUTURE AGENDA ONCE THE ZONING WORKS. RIGHT. THAT ONCE WE DO THAT. ALL RIGHT. SO I KNOW THAT FOUR F IS NEW BUSINESS AND I'M GOING TO, UM, I'M JUST GONNA SAY I NEED A THREE MINUTE RECESS. I THINK OTHERS DO AS WELL. 'CAUSE WE'VE BEEN IN HERE SINCE LIKE FIVE 30. UM, AND UM, BECAUSE I, I SUSPECT THAT FOUR S GONNA TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME AND I DON'T WANT ANYBODY TO, TO BE, SO WE'RE GOING TO DO THREE MINUTES, JUST EVERYBODY TAKE A BATHROOM BREAK REAL QUICK IF YOU NEED IT. DO WE, WE AREN'T GONNA STOP IT CHARLES. WE'RE JUST LITERALLY GONNA COME AND COME BACK AND THEY CAN WATCH THE EMPTY SEATS. BUT SORRY, . IT'S OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANKS EVERYBODY. ALRIGHT, SO ITEM FOUR F IS THE ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO TOWN CODE 1 75 DASH THREE DASH DEFINITIONS TO DEFINE DATA CENTERS TOWN CODE 1 75 DASH 64 DASH STATEMENT OF INTENT INDUSTRIAL EMPLOYMENT DISTRICT. I WANT TO ADD DATA CENTERS WITH PERFORMANCE CENTERS BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT. AND MS. CAPISH, MS. GONNA PRESENT FOR US TONIGHT, RIGHT? AND MR. W SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO LEAVE YOU OUT THERE JOHN. AND IT'S ALREADY UP HERE, RIGHT? HOPEFULLY THEY CAN SEE OUR GOAL WAS ACTUALLY TO KEEP THE VERY BRIEF . SORRY, WE, THE PUBLIC IS I ASSUMED FINE. DONE, DONE. I WATCHED THE BLANK MISSION SO I DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT. JOHN COMING UP. , BRING THAT FROM YOUR CHAIR. YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO IT DIDN'T BIRTHDAY. OH, HAPPY BIRTHDAY. HAPPY BIRTHDAY. SPENDING IT WITH US TALKING ABOUT THE PICTURE. GOING TO HIM WITH A FISH. I'M VERY HAPPY WISH. ALRIGHT, SO I WILL JUST PROVIDE YOU SOME BACKGROUND INFORMATION AND THEN, UM, AND JUST TRY TO KEEP IT HIGH LEVEL AND THEN JOHN CAN MAYBE EXPLAIN THE RESULTS YOU GUYS. UM, SO WITH THIS, THIS IS A TEXT AMENDMENT FOR, UH, DATA CENTERS. SO IT DEFINES THEM AND THEN PERMITS THEM BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT ONLY IN THE I TWO. THAT'S THE INDUSTRIAL EMPLOYMENT DISTRICT. UM, THE PLANNING COMMISSION HELD TWO VERY IN DEPTH WORK SESSIONS ON THIS ON AUGUST 6TH AND SEPTEMBER 3RD. THAT'S WHERE THEY WENT INTO THE WEEDS WENT LINE BY LINE AND WE HELD A PUBLIC HEARING ON SEPTEMBER 17TH. UM, SO WE ADDED THE DEFINITIONS OF MAINLY THE IMPORTANT ONES FOR YOU GUYS ARE GONNA BE THE DATA CENTER, DATA CENTER CAMPUS. AND THEN WE HAVE A SMALL DATA CENTER DEFINITION IN THERE. UM, AND THEN WE ADJUSTED THE STATEMENT OF INTENT TO ALLOW FOR THESE, UM, AND THEN THE ADDITION OF THE DATA CENTER BY, BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO 1 75 DASH 65 B. AND WHAT THAT DOES IS REFERENCES PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. SO ASIDE FROM ALL THE REGULAR PERFORMANCE STANDARDS, UM, AND A THROUGH I, THERE'S A NEW SECTION SPECIFIC TO DATA CENTERS, WHICH IS J AND THEN THE IMPACT ANALYSIS REQUIREMENTS ARE IN 1 75, 74. SO WE CREATED THAT SECTION. AND THEN I'M SURE MOST OF YOU WATCHED THE VIDEO. ARE THERE, UM, AS YOU SAW THE PUBLIC COMMENTS AT THE MEETING PERTAINED MOSTLY TO, UM, WATER USAGE AND NOISE VIBRATIONS. UM, WHICH STAFF BELIEVES HAS BEEN THOROUGHLY ADDRESSED IN THIS ORDINANCE. I'LL TELL YOU, THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST RESTRICTIVE ORDINANCE, THE STATE. UM, [00:40:01] SO THIS WILL JUST, JUST HAVE THE MAP FOR YOU, JUST FOR YOUR REFERENCE. THE I TWO DISTRICTS ARE THESE DARK BLUE, VERY DARK BLUE AREA. SO CURRENTLY WE HAVE I TWO ZONING OFF OF SHENANDOAH SHORES ROAD AND PROGRESS DRIVE. AND THEN THE UM, THE ORIGINAL ABT TECHS AND THE ARE OUR I TWO ZONES. THEN WE'VE GOT A LITTLE BIT HERE. LONG HENDRICK, DID YOU SAY THE SOCCER PLEX? I TWO? THE SOCCER PLEX IS ZONE I TWO. OH, WOW. REALLY? I FEEL LIKE THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE RIGHT? ? IT PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE. I'M SURPRISED WE DIDN'T PICK THAT UP WHEN WE DID THE COMPLE. HUH? WE HAVE THE FUTURE THERE. THE SAME FOR THIS WHOLE PIECE THAT'S ON TRAILS OF CONSERVATION. SO THAT CAN BE ACHIEVED DOWN THE ROAD WITH A REZONING. SO ON THE MAP, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION YEAH, I TOO LONG THE RIVER, IS THAT THE RAILROAD LINE THAT RUNS THROUGH THERE? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE SEEING? THERE IS A RAILROAD, YES, THERE'S A RAILROAD SPUR THAT GOES ALL THE WAY OVER HERE. ALL THE WAY DOWN. OKAY. WELL I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE. SO MOST OF THE APTEX PROPERTY AS WE'RE LOOKING AT IS ON THE RIGHT, THE PURPLISH, RIGHT? SO THIS IS CURRENTLY ZONED MCD. SO A DATA CENTER COULD NOT COME THERE WITHOUT A REZONING. RIGHT. BUT THAT'S WHERE THE ACTUAL AFT IS, IS IN THE PURPLE SPACE. YES. UH, THIS I BELIEVE IS WHERE THE BUILDING WAS THE STRUCTURE. SOME OF 'EM. YEAH. YEAH. THAT AND ALLIED CHEMICAL, I BELIEVE THAT WAS ON THE WEST SIDE. IT WAS ON THE WEST SIDE. OKAY. SO ANYTHING LEFT OF THE RAILROAD, WHICH IS THE ALLIED CHEMICAL MM-HMM . THE OLD VIRGINIA PROPERTY. CORRECT. OKAY. WOW. YEAH. AND THEN SHENANDOAH AND THERE'S THIS, THAT, THIS SLIVER HERE, UM, AND I THINK THAT WAS, I THINK IT WAS A TRUCK DRIVER. IS THAT WHERE THAT GRAVE LOT, THAT'S THE PARKING LOT. PARKING LOT. AND THEN THE OTHER BLUE IS WHERE THE PD IS, RIGHT? YEP. WHERE PD IS. YEAH. HUH. SO ANY THERE'S, THERE'S ACTUALLY NOT A LOT OF I TWO CURRENTLY IN TOWN, UM, THAT I WOULD CALL IMMEDIATELY DEVELOPING DARK GREEN. IS THAT AGRICULTURE UP ON THE LEFT? THE BIG NO. UP HIGHER. UM, THAT LITTLE UP HIGHER. YEP. THE LITTLE SLIVER ABOVE THAT. IS THAT A DARK GREEN? I CAN'T TELL. YES IT IS. THAT'S THAT'S A ONE. YEAH. CAN I ASK WHY YOU UM, I I I PROMISE I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THIS TIME. THAT'S OKAY. UM, BUT I, I, UM, I DON'T BELIEVE IT. I KNOW. UM, I'M CURIOUS ABOUT WHY YOU PUT IN, IN THE STATEMENT OF INTENT FOR THE I TWO DISTRICT THAT IT IS TO ESTABLISH STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES FOR THE CONSTRUCTION USE AND OPERATION OF DATA CENTERS WHEN IT DOESN'T MENTION ANY OF THE OTHER INDUSTRIES THAT'S GOING IN I TWO. RIGHT. THE, THE REST OF THAT STATEMENT OF INTENT, THE IDEA WAS FOR IT TO BE AN EMPLOYMENT DISTRICT. SO THAT FIRST PARAGRAPH KIND OF ENCOMPASSES THE REST OF THE USES. IT'S VERY GENERALLY SERVICES IS DIFFERENT. YOU FEEL LIKE WE'RE ADDING IN? YEAH. OKAY. BECAUSE, SO DATA CENTERS ARE TYPICALLY LIKE A, THEY'RE A, A HEAVY INDUSTRIAL USER. MM-HMM . SO THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT MORE INTENSIVE THAN YOUR AVERAGE INDUSTRIAL USER. SO THAT'S WHY IN THAT DISTRICT YOU HAVE YOUR BUY RIGHT USES, WHICH IN THEORY ARE GONNA BE LESS INTENSIVE LAND USE WISE THAN THE DATA CENTER OR ANYTHING THAT WE HAVE BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT. AND YES. AND MY OTHER QUESTION WAS, I, I WATCHED THE PLANNING COMMISSION OBVIOUSLY, AND UM, AND I NOTICED THAT, UM, UM, OH, SHOOT CHAIR, I KNOW OUR MS. MARSH. YEAH. COUNTY MARSH. UM, SHE WAS VERY GOOD ABOUT GOING OVER LIKE, YOU KNOW, ALL THE COMMENTS THAT THE, THE PUBLIC WERE ASKING WERE THERE, UH, AND I DON'T RECALL WHETHER LIKE, WHAT YOUR PROCESS WAS GONNA BE TO, TO, I KNOW YOU SAID A LOT OF 'EM WERE COVERED. YOU FELT A LOT OF 'EM WERE COVERED IN THE LANGUAGE ALREADY. BUT, UM, WERE THERE ANY MORE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO BACK AND, AND DO IN, OR WHAT'S YOUR INTENTION WITH DOING WITH THE COMMENTS? THE THOUGHT WAS IS THAT IF COUNSEL BELIEVED THAT THEY HAD NOT BEEN ADDRESSED IN THE TEXT ALREADY BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THAT'S THE OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN WHAT YOU'RE NOT HAPPY WITH, GIVE STAFF THAT FEEDBACK, AND THEN WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU SEND IT BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION IF YOU DON'T FEEL WE'VE ADEQUATELY ADDRESSED THEIR COMMENTS. BUT A LOT OF THEM WERE ABOUT THE NOISE. MM-HMM . WHICH I MEAN, WE'VE GOT IMPACT ANALYSIS REQUIREMENTS THAT JOHN'S GONNA GET TO. AND I MEAN, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE OUR OWN ENGINEERS OR CONSULTANTS REVIEW THIS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S OKAY. I MEAN, WE HAVE THE, THE NOISE LEVELS [00:45:01] AT THE PROPERTY LINES, BUT TO BE THE SAME AS THE ANY USED IN TOWN. SO THIS CAN'T BE ANY NOISIER AT THE PROPERTY LINE. THEY HAVE A HOME OR AN EVENT CENTER OR SOMEONE PLAYING LIVE MUSIC LATE AT NIGHT. SO WHERE, WHAT YOU JUST SAID IS SOMEBODY'S GONNA BE CHECKING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY MEET THESE, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, WHO, WHO PAYS FOR THAT CONSULTANT OR THE PERSON THAT'S CHECKING IT? WE HAVE A PROFESSIONAL SERVICES. OKAY. WHO, WHO PAYS FOR THAT THOUGH? IS IT US OR DOES THE APPLICANT? IT WOULD BE, I MEAN WE DON'T HAVE ANY STIPULATION IN THERE THAT THE APPLICANTS WOULD, HOWEVER THAT COST, IF THEY SUBMIT SOMETHING, LIKE IN GENERAL WHEN SOMETHING GETS SUBMITTED TO US, IF WE NEED A CONSULTANT TO REVIEW IT, WE SEND IT OUT FOR REVIEW. I HAVE A PROFESSIONAL SERVICES BUDGET, SO DOES PUBLIC WORKS AND ENERGY SERVICES. SO, UM, WE PAY FOR OUR CONSULTANTS WHEN WE NEEDED A PHYSICAL IMPACT ANALYSIS DONE TO REVIEW PROPERS THAT WENT TO A CONSULTANT THAT WE PAID FOR IT. OKAY. I WAS JUST CURIOUS THAT I KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE IT WOULD BE IF THAT WOULD, AND WE DON'T, BUT WE'RE ASSUMING THAT THAT COST IS INCURRED OR NOT INCURRED, BUT WE'RE ASSUMING THAT OUR FEES ARE SUCH THAT IT WILL HELP TOWARDS THAT BUDGET OF, DO YOU, AM I ASKING AND THE WRONG WAY? DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY? LIKE IF, UM, 'CAUSE I WOULD IMAGINE IT'S GONNA BE SOMETHING EXPENSIVE, SO WE CAN ALWAYS TALK FEE REVISION FOR THAT PERMIT . OKAY. ARE Y'ALL READY FOR OH, YOU'RE READY FOR MORE QUESTIONS? OH, NO. DO YOU WANNA ASK MORE QUESTIONS OR DO YOU WANT JOHN TO CONTINUE WITH THIS QUESTION? WELL, THE ONLY THING THAT I'LL SAY IS IF WE'RE TALKING COST, WE CAN'T PUT A COST ON GETTING THIS DONE. RIGHT. SO, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, TOWN OF WARRENTON DID. SO, UH, THAT'S THE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN TAKE LESSONS LEARNED FROM FROM THAT OR, SO WE HAVE CURRENTLY 1, 2, 3 AREAS. THEY'RE DARK BLUE. I HAVE A QUESTION. SO THE TOP OF THAT DARK BLUE TO THE LEFT? YES. OKAY. ISN'T THAT WHERE LIKE THERE'S CURRENTLY THE WAREHOUSE IN THE ? YEAH. SO THAT'S OLD PEANUT PEANUT, SORRY. PEANUT TAR IS UP HERE. AND THEN UM, OLD VIRGINIA. OLD VIRGINIA, YEAH. IS OVER HERE. THERE'S A CAMPGROUND WITH AN INDUSTRIAL SITE THERE. SO THESE ARE DEVELOPED, I MEAN THIS IS DEVELOPED, RIGHT? THIS I WOULD IMAGINE WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO DEVELOP. WAIT, WHERE'S THAT PIECE? THIS IS THE SOCCEREX. SO THIS IS THE FIELD. YOU'RE LOOK NOW PAST THE RAILROAD, BUT IT'S JUST OPEN RIGHT NOW. BUT IT IS PART OF THE SUPERFUND SITE. IT IS. SO THAT PARTICULAR SECTION, UM, IS PART OF THE CONSERVATION SIDE. IT IS THE SIDE THAT'S BEEN REMEDIATED THAT THEIR WATER TREATMENT PLANT THERE, THAT'S DOING THE REMEDIATION, THE ENVIRONMENTAL COVENANTS THERE RESTRICT ANY TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT. IT RESTRICTS A TREE OVER LIKE THREE INCHES IN CALIPER. SO, UM, THAT PARTICULAR SITE IS NOT TRULY DEVELOPABLE UNTIL THEY FULL EITHER FULLY REMEDIATE OR EPA HAS CLEARED IT. IN ADDITION TO THAT, IT IS SUBSTANTIALLY WITHIN THE FLOODWAY, UM, AND THEY IN THE TOWN AS WELL. SO WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THOUGH THE, WHERE THE OLD VIRGINIA BUILDINGS ACTUALLY EXIST, WHICH IS NOT IN THE CONSERVATION NEEDS AND NOT PART OF THE SUPERFUND SITE AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND, IS THAT NOT OKAY, BUT IT IS IN OUR I TWO DISTRICT. SO SOMEONE COULD GO IN THERE AND LEVEL ALL THAT AND BUILD A DATA CENTER ON THAT RIGHT NOW BY, RIGHT. IS THAT A CORRECT STATEMENT? YES. NOT BY RIGHT, RIGHT NOW. WHY NOT? WE DON'T HAVE ANY PROVISIONS. SO WE HAVE AN INCLUSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE. SO IF IT'S NOT IN THERE, I MEAN HIGHWAY WOULD ISSUE DETERMINATION, IT'S NOT PERMITTED. AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE IT TO THE COURT TO SEE. SO THEN THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM THE LAND OFF OF SHE SHORES ROAD. WELL, IT STONES THE SAME. I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT, AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE STAND WITH THE LEGALITY OF THE PROPERTIES, BUT THE PROPERTIES INCLUDED USE SPECIFICALLY DATA CENTER. SO THIS REZONING, IT DID CALL OUT, UH, IT DID STATE DATA CENTER IN PARENTHESES. THERE'S SOME LIKE [00:50:01] INCLUDING DATA CENTERS. UM, AND THAT WAS FROM 2020. UM, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE HONORED IF THEY DON'T EXIST. LIKE THEY DON'T, I DON'T HAVE AN EXECUTED COPY. SO I WOULD BE, I WOULD PUNCH THAT . SO IF SOMEONE CAME IN TOMORROW INVOLVED AT LAND, COULD THEY PUT A DATA CENTER ON IT OR NOT? WE DON'T KNOW. OR I DON'T KNOW. YOU WANT ME TO DEFER LEGAL PLAN TO THIS? I DON'T KNOW IF HE CAN ANSWER IT ON THE SPOT THOUGH. THANK YOU. YEAH, I I MEAN YOU'D HAVE TO RESEARCH. I CAN RESPOND IN CONFIDENCE, BUT YES, THERE WERE PROPER THERE FROM 2020 THAT STATED DATA CENTERS SPECIFICALLY, BUT NOT DEFINED. 'CAUSE I'M SURE THAT, BUT IT DIDN'T DEFINE 'EM AND IT DIDN'T PROVIDE ANY STANDARDS. SO THERE'S NOTHING TO BASE AT ALL. THERE'S NOTHING LESS IN 2020. PEOPLE WEREN'T TALKED ABOUT STANDARDS FOR DATA CENTERS. THEY WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT IN 2020. I THINK WE WERE JUST STARTING TO GET THIS LIKE LESSONS LEARNED. SO LIKE THE ORDINANCE THAT WE'VE PUT TOGETHER, A LOT OF THAT STEMMED FROM LESSONS LEARNED FROM OTHER JURISDICTIONS AND WHERE DID THEY EVENTUALLY FALL SHORT? WHERE WERE THEIR COMMUNITY LIKE MOST IMPACTED NEGATIVELY AND HOW DO WE MITIGATE THAT AND NOT HAVE THAT HAPPEN AGAIN? AND AGAIN, LIKE THE IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER IS THIS REQUIRES PUBLIC HEARING PLANNING COMMISSION AND WITH COUNSEL. SO IT'S NOT LIKE THEY CAN JUST SUBMIT THEIR APPLICATION, GET AN APPROVED SITE PLAN AND GO. IT'S NOT WITHOUT SCRUTINY. I I DIDN'T SEE A PRICE ON THERE FOR THE SUP FOR THIS. IS IT IN THERE AND I JUST SAID WE DIDN'T, UM, DESIGNATE OUT A SEPARATE SEP PRICE. OUR SEP COSTS TO SIX $50. WE CAN MAKE IT, COULD WE MAKE IT HIGHER FOR OUR DATA CENTER? OH, OKAY. OH YEAH. DON'T, SO, UM, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY MAKE IT HIGHER, BUT THAT WOULD REQUIRE PUBLIC HEARING. BUT WOULD THAT BE HIGHER FOR, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE HIGHER IN EQUITY FOR ALL S OR COULD IT BE SEP FOR YOU COULD CARVE OUT A SEPARATE DATA CENTER FEE FOR DATA CENTER STS. UM, I KNOW THE COUNTY DID A SEPARATE FEE FOR THEIR SHORT TERM RENTALS THAT'S HIGHER THAN THEIR STANDARD. WELL LIKE THE MAYOR JUST MENTIONED, IT'S NOT A BAD IDEA TO CONSIDER CONSIDERING WE MIGHT HAVE TO HIRE CONSULTANTS. MM-HMM . WOULD BE ENOUGH TO COVER THE COST OF THAT. THE TOWN SHOULDN'T BE PAYING FOR CONSULTANTS THAT PETTY COULD DWELL OR SOMETHING MISSING. YEAH, WE WERE JUST, WE WERE JUST SAYING THAT ANY FEES OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO BE REASONABLE. SO WE WOULD'VE TO JUST REVIEW TO SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE COST WOULD BE ON A RATIONAL BASIS FOR DIFFERENTIATED RIGHT. ONE USE SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK INTO. RIGHT. WELL, LIKE WE SAID, LIKE THAT SHE WAS SAYING ABOUT HIRING SOMEBODY FOR THE NOISE. CORRECT. AND THE THINGS LIKE THAT, THOSE ARE NOT STAND, WE DON'T DO THAT FOR ANY OTHER SUP. SO, SO THIS ONE WOULD, UH, CAUSE CONSIDERABLY MORE FOR OR OUT OF YOUR BUDGET OTHER STATES, I MEAN YOU HAVE COMPLETE PASS THROUGH COSTS OF THOSE CONSULTING FEES, BUT OKAY. OKAY. WHO DETERMINES A REASONABLE AND RATIONAL RATE? I HAVE NO IDEA BECAUSE THE NUMBERS THAT WE SAW FROM A PROPOSED DATA CENTER WHEN I FIRST GOT ON COUNCIL, I MEAN, WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER A REASONABLE RATE FOR THEM WOULD BE, UM, IT, IT'S 1, 1 1 THAT CAN BE JUSTIFIED BASED ON THE FACT, RIGHT? IT'S REALLY A LEGAL, SO IF THEY WERE TO DEVELOP LEGAL CONCEPT GENERATE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN REVENUE, THERE'S JUSTIFICATION. WELL, IT COULD BE A LOT OF COUNTIES DO IT JURISDICTIONS DO IT WHERE IT'S COST CONSTRUCTION PERCENTAGE. OKAY. YEAH. THAT WOULD GIVE YOU PC DOES IT? AND I THINK FAIR FACT, YOU PUT IN YOUR PROJECT COST FOR, FOR DOING IT. NOW WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING HERE ABOUT THE FEES ISN'T PART OF THIS. RIGHT. LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT. FUTURE DISCUSSION. IT'D BE A TOTAL FUTURE DISCUSSION. MM-HMM . I WILL SAY, UH, 'CAUSE I DID WATCH THE PLAN, WHICH THE NIGHT THAT IT WAS I WATCHED AS WAS GOING ON. UM, AND UM, IT FELT LIKE THE PEOPLE THAT WERE OFFERING COMMENTS, THE MAJORITY OF THEM SEEMED AS THOUGH THEY WERE PLEASANTLY SURPRISED THAT THERE WERE AS MANY, UM, STANDARDS AS THERE WERE. UM, [00:55:01] AND, AND, AND AGAIN, THAT'S A SUBJECTIVE, THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. I DON'T, I KNOW OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS WERE THERE. UM, YOU GUYS WERE THERE. I MEAN, DO YOU AGREE THAT IT SEEMED LIKE, I MEAN THERE WERE STILL SOME CONCERNS SHARED. I'M NOT SAYING THERE WEREN'T, BUT I FELT LIKE AS PEOPLE CAME FORWARD, THEY WERE MAKING COMMENTS AS THOUGH THIS HAS GOT A LOT OF, YOU KNOW. YEAH. THEN IT HAS A LOT FOR LACK BEARERS THAT, THAT AND THEY RESEARCH YOU, YOU KNOW, IT'S EVIDENT YOU RESEARCHED IT WELL. YES. AND, AND, YOU KNOW, DID YOUR BEST. AND WITH THE LESSONS LEARNED, ESPECIALLY, I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S NICE AND I THINK THAT IS KEY. I'VE FELT THAT ALL ALONG THAT. 'CAUSE I KNOW I SAID THAT BEFORE, LIKE ASK THE PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT NOW, LIKE, IF YOU HAD IT TO DO DIFFERENTLY, WHAT WOULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY? AND SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. USE, USE, UH, THEIR UNFORTUNATE CIRCUMSTANCE TO, TO HELP US, BRUCE, WHERE, YOU KNOW, WELL I, YOU KNOW, I THINK, I THINK THAT WHEN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SURFACE ON IT, THERE'S A LOT OF TEETH. BUT FOR EXAMPLE, SOME OF THE SETBACKS THAT WERE MENTIONED WITH REGARD TO RESIDENTIAL, UM, I THINK IF I RECALL, UH, I, I WENT TO THE MEETING, IT WAS LIKE 200 FEET. UM, WE, WE ADDRESS THAT NEW YORK BECAUSE USING 500 FEET, FOR EXAMPLE, YORK COUNTY. UH, SO YOU KNOW, WHO'S TO SAY 200 FEET IS THE MAGIC NUMBER. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT. YEAH. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA TAKE A WHILE FOR TREES TO GROW UP ON, YOU KNOW, TO GET THE BUFFER ZONE OUT OF IT. UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I'LL, AND I'LL THROW THIS OUT. I APPRECIATE, I APPRECIATE EVERYTHING THAT, AND THE HARD WORK THAT WAS PUT INTO THIS TO PUT IT TOGETHER. AND EVERYONE THAT I'VE HEARD FROM STAFF AND I'VE HEARD FROM PLANNING COMMISSION BELIEVE THAT IT IS A VERY STRONG DOCUMENT. BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M A, I'M A PRETTY CONSERVATIVE PERSON AND I WOULD, I WOULD ASK THAT WE THINK ABOUT, UH, BRINGING IN A LAND, A PROFESSIONAL LAND USE ATTORNEY TO VET THE DOCUMENT, UM, ONE LAST TIME TO MAKE SURE, BECAUSE IT, BELIEVE ME, IT IS GONNA BE MONEY WELL SPENT BECAUSE IT CAN PROTECT YOU FROM, FROM LIABILITY ISSUES DOWN THE ROAD OR IF THINGS GO SOUTH. UM, AND LET'S FACE IT, DATA CENTERS ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF MAKING MONEY. AND SO I'M INTERESTED IN THE BEST FOR THE TOWN, BUT UH, I ALSO WANT TO PROTECT, YOU KNOW, OUR INTERESTS. UM, SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TURNING OVER AS MANY STONES AS POSSIBLE AND FRANKLY, THERE'S, I CAN'T, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE A LOT OF SMART PEOPLE, I DON'T KNOW IF, IF WE'RE, IF THIS IS, THIS IS OUR, OUR PROFESSIONAL EXPERTISE EXPERTISE RIGHT HERE, HERE'S OF EXPERTISE AND, AND SO THAT, I'M GONNA THROW THAT OUT AND THAT'S, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT, OKAY. SO JUST BECAUSE BRUCE BROUGHT IT UP, LET'S STACK ONE THING AT A TIME. DO YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THE SETBACK? SURE. BECAUSE HE SAID HE'S PREPARED TO TALK ABOUT THAT. YEAH. SO WE CAN, THAT'S THE ZONING. WE'LL SKIP THROUGH SOME OF THESE THINGS. THESE ARE THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. SO ON THE SETBACK. SO YOU, SO, UH, I GUESS THE BEST WAY TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS A LITTLE BIT MORE, LET ME SEE IF I CAN FLIP THROUGH THESE AND GET TO THE BACK. SO YOU, YOU HAVE TO, THE BEST WAY I THINK TO WHAT WE DID TO UNDERSTAND THIS, THESE ARE THE I TWO DISTRICT AND THESE ARE USES BY, RIGHT. OKAY. SO YOU HAVE TO, IF PEOPLE ASK YOU QUESTIONS, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO THINK BASICALLY ONLY IN THE I TWO AND WHAT IS ALLOWED IN THE I TWO. AND WE'RE ADDING A NEW USE TO THE I TWO. SO WHEN YOU DO THESE, WHEN WE COME UP WITH NUMBERS, YOU HAVE TO JUSTIFY OR HAVE REASONABLE CRITERIA TO ESTABLISH THOSE NUMBERS. BUT IT'S ONLY IN THE I TWO. SO I'LL USE THIS FOR EXAMPLE, BY, RIGHT. YOU ALLOW A COAL YARD, A WOOD YARD, AND A LUMBERYARD BY, RIGHT? NO APPLICATION WOULD COME TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION. NO APPLICATION WOULD COME, COME TO TOWN COUNCIL. THAT'S ABOUT RIGHT. USE. SO THOSE USES IN THE I TWO. [01:00:02] NOW IF WE GO BACK TO THE, UH, THE SETBACKS ALSO IN THE I TWO BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS HAZARDOUS MATERIAL STORAGE, AUTOMOBILE GRAVEYARDS, AND SCRAP METAL PROCESSING. THOSE REQUIRE AN SUP. THE LUMBER YARD. THE COAL YARD, NO, SUP BY, RIGHT? THOSE USES COULD BE ANY OF THOSE, COULD BE 40 FEET FROM RESIDENTIAL, 40 FEET FROM THE P AND D, 10 FOOT ON THE SIDE TO A, A COMMERCIAL ADJACENT AND ZERO TO THE REAR, 25 FEET FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY. SO YOU COULD HAVE A COAL YARD BUILDING 25 FOOT OFF THE ROAD, LUMBER YARD, COAL, UH, UH, THOSE COULD COME IN HERE. HAZARDOUS MATERIAL STORAGE, 25 FEET SIDE AND REAR 10 FEET ON THE, A ONE AND ZERO IN THE REAR. SO YOU COULD PUT A HAZARDOUS MATERIAL STORAGE FACILITY BASICALLY RIGHT ON THE PROPERTY LINE HERE ON THE I ONE AND, UH, CORPORATE BOUNDARY WITH WARREN COUNTY. 10 FOOT ON THE SIDE AND ZERO ON THE REAR. THOSE USES IS WHAT THE CURRENT COAT HAS. SAME WAY WITH THE COAL YARD OR THE LUMBER YARD. THAT'S WHAT THEY WOULD BE PERMITTED TO BE PUT IN. SO THEN YOU HAVE TO COME UP. IS IT REASON, WHAT IS REASONABLE FOR THE DATA CENTER? SO WE DID THE RESEARCH DATA CENTERS, WE RECOMMENDED 200 FOOT FROM RESIDENTIAL. SO YOU, YOU GET TO THINK OF THE USE. YOU CAN'T SINGLE OUT THE USE AND BE ARBITRARY IN YOUR DISTANCES. WHAT YOU, WHAT ARE YOU JUSTIFYING IT FOR? IF WE ALLOW A HAZARDOUS MATERIAL STORAGE TO ONLY BE 40 FEET, WHY CAN WE INCREASE THIS TO 500? IS THAT REASONABLE? IS OR, OR IS THAT NUMBER ARBITRARY? THAT'S WHERE LOCALITIES GET IN TROUBLE WHEN THEY GET, MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON ARBITRARY DECISIONS. 'CAUSE WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THESE OTHER USES THAT ARE PERMITTED BY RIGHT. AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT IS THIS REASONABLE FOR THAT DISTRICT OR ARE WE JUST SINGLING OUT THAT USE JUST BECAUSE, YEAH. LACK OF A BETTER TERM. WE DON'T LIKE IT OR WE DON'T WANT IT. YOU JUST HAVE TO LOOK AT THE USE REGARDLESS. BUT YOUR PREMISE IS, IS THAT THAT OTHER, THAT THAT BOTTOM GRAY WAS CORRECT OR BEST, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHAT I'M SAYING? LIKE, I'M NOT THE CURRENT CODE CURRENTLY YET, BUT WE, WE, YEAH. WE CAN'T CHANGE THAT. SO WE LOOK IN THE WHOLE, THIS IS WHAT WE ALLOW NOW. YEAH. AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR DATA CENTERS. MM-HMM . THAT'S IN OUR TOWN CODE. YEAH. THAT'S IN YOUR TOWN CODE. THAT'S THE TOWN CODE'S IN THE I TWO DISTRICT. THAT'S YOUR SETBACKS REGULATED. THAT'S WHAT WE REGULATE IT TOO. SO RIGHT NOW, IF SOMEBODY COMES IN WITH AN APPLICATION PRIOR TO THIS CHANGE EVER GOING INTO EFFECT, THAT'S THE STANDARDS WE HOLD THEM TO. AND THEN PART OF THE REASON WITH THE DATA CENTERS, WHY WE WANT THE LARGER SETBACKS, IT ALLOWS FOR THAT ATTENUATION SOUND WAVES. RIGHT? SO WE WON'T DO THE PHYSICS LESSONS, BUT THAT GIVES THE SOUND DISTANCE TO DISSIPATE SO THAT IT'S NOT AS, UM, UH, SO MUCH OF A NUISANCE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO HAVE A DATA CENTER 10 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE AND NOT HEAR IT. AND, BUT THE DATA CENTER USE, UNLIKE A, YOU KNOW, GRAVEYARD. BUT YEAH, YOU COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, HE HAD THE GENERATORS, AUTOMOBILE SCRAP, SCRAP METAL PROCESSING, YOU KNOW, COULD BE SO CLOSE TO AGRICULTURE AND OPEN SPACE. RIGHT. WELL, AND YOU'VE GOT THE, AND THESE, SO YOU'RE TRYING TO IDENTIFY, IS THIS USE, ARE WE SINGLING OUT THIS USE DIFFERENT FROM THESE OTHERS AND PENALIZING THIS? IS IT CAN, CAN YOU HAVE REASONABLE REA REASONABLE IDEAS WHY WE'RE PLACING THIS? CAN WE INCREASE THAT MORE? I MEAN, THAT SAYS HAZARDOUS RIGHT IN THE WORDING OF IT. I KNOW. I'M LIKE, CAN YOU PUT HAZARDOUS? YEAH. IT MAKES ME WANT, SHOULD WE, SO SHOULD WE HAVE ENTERTAINED TO CHANGE? RIGHT. SO YOU TO, BEFORE WE DID THAT. SO YOU HAVE TO KIND OF STAY IN THAT CIRCLE. YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? YEAH, NO, I HEAR YOU. BUT BUT JUST, JUST TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THE, THE RESIDENTIAL. YEAH. OKAY. IN A FOOTBALL FIELD, IT'S, IT'S, UH, LESS THAN RIGHT? THE LENGTH OF A FOOTBALL FIELD. THE FOOTBALL FIELD IS THREE, IS A HUNDRED YARDS. SO THAT'S, THAT'S, UH, 300 FEET. ALLENS CAN THROW A FOOTBALL TREE. WELL, ONE INTO THE, I LOOK AT IT, WE LOOK AT IT. THIS, I UNDERSTAND THAT'S HOW CLOSE MINIMUM, THAT'S HOW CLOSE YOU'LL BE. THAT'S HOW WE DID THE RESEARCH. SO IF YOU WANNA DO THE FOOTBALL, THAT'S A 10 YARD FIELD GOAL THERE. WELL, WE, WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T FIX 40 FEET. BUT YOU JUST TOLD, TOLD [01:05:01] US WE CAN'T FIX THAT. YES. WE FIX, FIX ANYTHING DOWN WE WOULD NEED PRESENTLY WE WOULD NEED, HE IS SAYING RIGHT NOW, THE TOWN CODE IS SAYING THOSE THINGS AT THE BOTTOM. RIGHT. SO, SO IT'S USUALLY, USUALLY NOT THE STATE CODE TOWN CODE. RIGHT? YEAH. SO WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US FOR RIGHT NOW. I'M NOT SAYING THE IT TOO DOESN'T NEED WORK. IT NEEDS WORK. OKAY. BUT IT'S LIKE A LOT OF THESE TEXT AMENDMENT COMES TO YOU. IT IS. THESE THINGS WITHIN THE CODE, WE FOUND OUT, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE EITHER MISLEADING OR THEY DON'T CORRESPOND WITH ANOTHER PART OF THE CODE. WE'RE MEETING CHANGES. YES. IS THIS AN ERROR WE PROBABLY WANNA LOOK AT WHEN WE GO THROUGH THE ZONING ORDINANCE? YES. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT WE HOLD THE APPLICANTS TO. THAT'S WHAT THE LEMONS WE HAVE TO MAKE LEMONADE OUT OF RIGHT NOW, SO TO SPEAK, RIGHT? MM-HMM . SO YOU HAVE TO JUSTIFY THESE, THESE MEASUREMENTS AND ALL THE COMMENTS. I'LL SAY ALL THE COMMENTS THAT THE PUBLIC HAD WAS ADDRESSED THAT WE COULD ADDRESS. NOW, I THINK THE ONE COMMENT WAS THE INTERIOR NOISE. THE GENTLEMAN WITH THE SOUND METER ZONING CANNOT REGULATE INTERIOR. THAT'S THROUGH OSHA. RIGHT? SO THEN SOMEONE ELSE, I THINK THE OTHER THING ON THE NOISE, ONE OF THE 24 7 SURVEILLANCE OF THE NOISE ORDINANCE ON THE BOUNDARY. OKAY. AND THEORY SOUNDS GOOD, BUT WHY ARE YOU SINGLING THAT DATA CENTER OUT USE DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU'RE USE THESE USES? THAT SEEMS ARBITRARY TO SONY. AND THE TIME YOU HAD, I THINK YOU HAD A TIME OF LIKE 9:00 PM OR SOMETHING. I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT THAT. 'CAUSE HOW DOES THAT MATCH WITH, IN OUR TIME? YEAH. IN OUR TIME. 10. SO LIKE WHY DID, WHY'D YOU COME UP WITH A DIFFERENT TIME? WELL, THE RATIONALE BETWEEN THESE DATA CENTER, IT, IT RUNS 24 7. RIGHT? THESE OTHER USES THAT WE HAVE. SO TESTING A GENERATOR, YOU DON'T TEND TO BE TESTED WORKING IN THE AUTOMATIC RIGHT. BUT THE DATA CENTER NOISE, LIKE FOR THE DATA CENTERS, UH, ON THE GENERATORS, THAT WAS ONE QUESTION WAS BROUGHT UP. BUT THE CODE SAYS LIKE, TYPICALLY WITH DATA CENTERS, THEY RUN ABOUT 40 OR 50 GENERATORS. MM-HMM . SIZE OF A RAIL CAR. OKAY. RIGHT. AND THEY FIRE THEM UP TO TEST THEM IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA. AND THAT'S WHERE THE COMPLAINTS COME FROM. YOUR CODE MAKES THESE GENERATORS BE IN-HOUSE INSIDE THE BUILDING. MM-HMM . SO NOW YOU WON'T HAVE, THOSE AREAS ARE GENERATORS ARE OUTSIDE, THEY FIRE 'EM UP, DIESEL, THEY MAKE THE NOISE, THE SMOKE COMES UP, YOU HAVE ALL THE EMISSIONS, YOUR CODE IS INSIDE THE BUILDING. OKAY. SO THOSE WERE QUESTIONS THAT BROUGHT UP WITH THE PUBLIC. MAYBE THEY DIDN'T READ ALL THE FINE LINES THROUGH THERE, BUT THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WE WENT THROUGH IT LINE BY LINE AT TWO MEETINGS. SURE. UH, TO GO OVER ALL THESE THINGS, PLUS NUMEROUS EMAILS AS WE TWEAKED THE CODE, UH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION UNDERSTOOD WHERE THE LANGUAGE WAS CHANGED AT. MM-HMM . UH, MAYBE THEY DIDN'T DIRECTLY ANSWER THE QUESTION FROM THE PUBLIC, BUT IT WAS ANSWERED WITHIN THE CODE. SO I THINK I'VE ENTERED TO SAY THAT ALL THE COMMENTS THAT WERE ADDRESSED THAT WE COULD ADDRESS WHERE, LIKE THE SAM THING THAT IS A QUESTION. SOMEONE SAID 24 7, THAT'S NOT REASONABLE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE IT ON THESE OTHER USES. MM-HMM . TO ME, THAT SOUNDS ARBITRARY THAT WE'RE SINGLING OUT ONE USE TO BE MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN ANY OTHER USE IN THAT DISTRICT. CAN YOU DO THAT? MAYBE? YES. SHOULD YOU DO THAT? PROBABLY NOT. RIGHT. THAT, THAT'S WHERE YOU GET, GET INTO PROBLEMS, MAKE ARBITRARY DECISIONS, UH, WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING TO JUSTIFY THE MEANS WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT. JUSTIFICATION IS NOT GOOD FOR OUR COMMUNITY ABOUT THE PEOPLE. WELL, BUT I KNOW GEORGE IS PROBABLY LIKE, YEAH. USUALLY WE LOOK AT PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY AND GENERAL WELFARE. I KNOW. DOES THIS JEOPARDIZE IT MORE, FOR EXAMPLE, THAN THESE OTHER USES THAT YOU CAN JUSTIFY IT WITH? JUST A REMINDER, UH, THIS IS KEYED UP AS AN SUP PROCESS, RIGHT? FOR MEDICINE, THE CASE BY CASE SAFETY, NOT BY, RIGHT. YEAH. SO THAT'S WHY WE HAD THE BURDENS ON THE APPLICANT TO SHOW THAT IT'S AN APPROPRIATE USE IN THE ZONE AND GETTING BACK TO THE STUDIES AND WHATNOT. THE APPLICANT'S GONNA HAVE TO PRESENT THOSE TO THE SATISFACTION OF PLANNING COMMISSION AND THIS BODY. RIGHT. SO THEY'LL COME WITH AN SUP, WE ADDRESS THE, THERE'LL BE MINIMUM SETBACKS WITH IT, PERIMETER BUFFERS, OPEN SPACES, NOISE STANDARDS, OUTDOOR LIGHTING, WATER COOLING, BUILDING HEIGHT STANDARDS, BUILDING SIZES, UH, THE DIFFERENT IN THE SURFACE, UH, SURFACE STANDARDS, BUILDING FACADE MATERIAL PARKING STANDARDS. THAT'LL BE ALL PART OF PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. IF YOU REMEMBER ON THE BUILDING, UH, THE JUSTIFICATION ON THE BUILDING HEIGHT, UH, LET'S SEE, WHERE WAS THAT? [01:10:02] WHERE THE BUILDING SIZES, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE RURAL CAN YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT? EXACTLY. A HUNDRED THOUSAND? YEAH. 95,100. OUR REASONING IS THERE'S A RURAL KING AT 95,000 IN JACKSON FURNITURE AT 95, 94 AND NINE. SO WE LIMITED THE SIZE OF THE DATA CENTER BUILDINGS TO 100,000 SQUARE FEET. WE THOUGHT THAT WAS REASONABLE. YOU GREW UP INTO THE COUNTY UP ON THE CORRIDOR. THERE'S WALMART AND LOWE'S AT TWO 19 AND 1 47, AND THE FAMILY DOLLAR AT 900,400 SQUARE FOOT. SO ESSENTIALLY YOU COULD FIT NINE BUILDINGS IN OUR CODE FOR THE 1000. INSIDE. THIS, OF COURSE, WE HAVE BUFFERS BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS, DISTANCES BETWEEN THE, SO, UH, 25 FOOT, SOMEONE SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU DO A CAMPUS, BUT OUR, THE CODE WE HAVE BEFORE YOU IS THEY HAVE TO BE A SEPARATION OF 25 FEET BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS, UH, AND LIMIT THE SIZE TO A THOUSAND OR A HUNDRED THOUSAND SQUARE FEET. THAT, UH, I GUESS JUST TO ADDRESS THE COMMENT THAT WAS MADE RIGHT BEFORE THAT, WHEN WE WERE REMINDED THAT IT WAS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT MM-HMM . I FEEL LIKE THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS CONTINUOUSLY THAT HOW OFTEN DO OTHER THINGS THAT WE HAVE THAT REQUIRE AN SUP, THE APPLICANT COMES BEFORE US PRIOR WITH A REZONING REQUEST AND THEN AN SUP. MM-HMM. SO HOW I JUST, IT MAKES ME, UM, CAUTIOUS AS TO HOW MANY REZONING REQUESTS WE'RE GONNA GET. NOW, WHETHER THEY GET REZONED OR NOT. BUT AGAIN, TALK ABOUT ARBITRARY. UM, WE HAVE SEEN A REZONING THAT PEOPLE FELT WAS ARBITRARY. AND, UM, SO I JUST WONDER HOW WE'RE GONNA ABOUT THAT. THEY'RE REQUIRED TO SUBMIT THEIR CONCEPT PLANNED MM-HMM . SO AS PART OF THAT REZONING, YOU HAVE SOME SEMBLANCE OF AN IDEA OF WHAT THEY'RE GONNA BE DOING. WE'VE HAD THAT BEFORE AND IT WAS STILL LANDED US IN COURT. SO IT'S THE ADVANTAGE OF, IF I MAY, THAT THAT'S THE ADVANTAGE OF, OF THE PROFESSIONAL LAND USE ATTORNEY THAT WOULD, WOULD VET IT. LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ARBITRARY, I MEAN, CAN WE ASK, CAN WE ASK, UH, OR REQUIRE THAT THE GENERATORS BE INSIDE OF YOUR CODE A REQUIREMENT? PART OF THE, I UNDERSTAND IT'S PART OF THE CODE, BUT COULD IT BE, COULD IT MAYBE THE, MAYBE THE DATA CENTERS DON'T WANT IT AND THEY MIGHT CONSIDER, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO CONSIDER IT TO BE THE ARBITRARY, UH, WELL, BASED ON OUR RESEARCH, OTHER LOCALITIES HAVE THAT. OH, THAT WAS A MAJOR LAWSUIT IN PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY, IS THAT THEY HAD EXTERNAL GENERATORS. THEY DID, THEY WOULD TEST 'EM, LIKE PEOPLE'S HOMES WOULD BE SHAKING. YEAH. AND SO THAT WAS A BIG, THAT WAS LIKE ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS WE SAID IS THEY HAVE TO BE COMPLETELY ENCLOSED. MM-HMM . WELL, I HOPE IS THAT IF THE DATA CENTERS DON'T LIKE OUR TOWN CODE, THEY WON'T COME HERE. UH, SO THOSE ARE THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. THAT'S OKAY. SO THOSE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS THAT THEY NEED TO ADDRESS, UH, THERE'S A SETBACKS THE SIZE OF THE BUILDINGS. UH, AND WITH THAT, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO SUBMIT IMPACT ANALYSIS. THIS IS THE UTILITY IMPACT. THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SAY HOW, HOW THIS IS GONNA AFFECT OUR ELECTRICAL SYSTEM. THE WATER AND WASTEWATER TELECOMMUNICATION. THAT IS A POSSIBILITY, UH, ON THE ELECTRICAL SYSTEM. THAT WOULD BE THROUGH, YOU KNOW, ENERGY SERVICES WOULD REVIEW THAT. UH, ON THE ELECTRIC, UH, THEY ALSO HAVE TO DO THE PHYSICAL IMPACT ANALYSIS ON NOISE, HEAT AND AIR TRAFFIC, VISUAL VIBRATION. UH, THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE OTHER PART OF THE STUDY. THEY HAVE TO SUBMIT. UH, THEY ALSO HAVE TO DO THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, LAND DISTURBANCE, STORM WATER, AIR QUALITY, ENERGY, UH, HAZARDOUS MATERIAL AND SPILL PREVENTION. THE FACILITY LIFECYCLE PLAN, HOW LONG THE BUILDING'S GONNA BE THERE, HOW THEY'RE GONNA REPURPOSE THAT. UH, POTENTIALLY I THEY'RE GONNA DECOMMISSION. THAT WAS A, YEP. THAT WAS A BIG, I REMEMBER THAT, THAT WAS A BIG THING. YEP. THAT WAS A BIG QUESTION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED. AND PEOPLE DIDN'T COME IN AND LEAVE AND RIGHT. THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHERE IT WAS PART IN THE CODE, BUT IT WAS ADDRESSED IN THE CODE THAT THEY WERE GONNA HAVE. THAT'S PART OF THIS AT THE BUILDING FOR 10 YEARS. HOW ARE THEY GOING TO DO, UH, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TO THE BUILDING IN 10 YEARS, FOR EXAMPLE? AND THERE'S ANOTHER, I THINK ANOTHER THING OF THE CODE THAT, OR PEOPLE WANTED, YOU KNOW, UH, THEY WANTED SOMETHING ON, UH, YOU KNOW, CUTTING EDGE TECHNOLOGY ON THESE BUILDINGS, BUT THE THINGS ARE CHANGING SO MUCH. I MEAN, AT ONE TIME, THE DATA CENTERS CAME, UH, THEY WAS, UH, AIR COLD. RIGHT? THAT'S HOW THEY COOLED 'EM WITH THE AIR SYSTEM. THEN THEY WENT TO WATER, WATER COLD SYSTEM. NOW THEY'RE DOING THESE DIELECTRIC TUBS, BASICALLY. IT'S LIKE THE FLUIDS THAT'S IN TRANSFORMERS. RIGHT. SO THEY'RE THE TECHNOLOGY. IT'S CHANGING ON THESE THINGS. UM, [01:15:01] I WOULD SAY BASED ON OUR EXPERIENCE ON THE RESEARCH WE DID, UM, IT'S A VERY SOLID ORDINANCE. IT'S PROBABLY NOT PERFECT. I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GONNA GET A PERFECT ORDINANCE, BUT LAYS A GOOD FOUNDATION. I KNOW THE PLANNING COMMISSION KICKED SOME OTHER IDEAS ABOUT, WE DIDN'T ADDRESS SOME OF THESE OTHER ISSUES, UM, POTENTIALLY. AND IT'S KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU BUILD A HOUSE, YOU GOTTA HAVE A FOUNDATION, GET THE WALLS UP, I THINK THEN WORRY ABOUT THE PAINT, WHAT YOU'RE DOING IN THE LIVING ROOM AND EVERYTHING ELSE AS YOU GO ALONG. UH, NOT, NOT WE'RE KICKING STUFF DOWN THE ROAD, BUT A LOT OF THIS STUFF WOULD BE WEEDED OUT THROUGH THESE IMPACT ANALYSIS. THAT'S HOW WE LOOK AT IT. UH, SO WOULD THE, SO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU JUST SAID THAT I INTERPRET THIS CORRECTLY, THAT THERE WERE SOME THINGS THE PLANNING COMMISSION WAS STILL SAYING, BUT YOU ALL HAVEN'T GOTTEN BACK TOGETHER WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION SINCE THAT EVENING. THOSE WERE QUESTIONS WERE BROUGHT UP DURING THE MEETING. YEAH, NO, I, I, I HEARD 'EM, I JUST SAYING, BUT YOU HAVEN'T HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT THOSE QUESTIONS YET, RIGHT? IT'S ON THE PICK UP ON ITEMS. WE WOULDN'T NO, NO, NO. I KNOW I'M SAYING IT WAS SEPTEMBER 17TH. I I'M JUST SAYING YOU COULD STILL HAVE ANOTHER MEETING AND TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE THINGS TO, IF COUNSEL DECIDES TO HAVE YOU TAKE IT BACK TO PLAN COMMISSION. SORRY, I, I JUST, JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE. AND I, YOU'VE ALREADY VOTED, UH, RECOMMENDED APPROVAL. RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. NO, BUT LIKE THAT 40 FEET THING AND STUFF LIKE THAT, THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT STICKS IN MY HEAD. AND I'M GONNA SAY IT WRONG. I I'M JUST THINKING LIKE, JUST BECAUSE YOU DID IT WRONG, JUST BECAUSE THERE'S ANOTHER PART THAT'S WRONG, DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULD BUILD ON WHAT WAS ALREADY WRONG. I KNOW THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YES. THERE'S SOMETHING MY MOTHER USED TO SAY, JUST BECAUSE BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, DOESN'T MEAN YOU, SO I GUESS, AND I, I'M SAYING, I THINK WHEN HE SAID A FOOTBALL FIELD, IT SCARED ME YEAH. ON THE ROAD. BUT WHEN HE SAID THAT, LIKE, I STARTED THINKING THESE DISTRICTS ON NOVEMBER 5TH WORK SESSION TO KIND OF REVIEW THE INDUSTRIAL DISTRICTS AND THE ZONING ORDINANCE AS A WHOLE IN THE DRAFT. OKAY. SO IT'S NOT LIKE THIS IS GONNA GO ON FOR YEARS. RIGHT. THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW. RIGHT. NOW. I UNDERSTAND. I UNDERSTAND. I I JUST MEANT THAT I, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS IT WOULD BE HARD FOR US TO SAY IT WAS ARBITRARY FAIR. WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT 40 FEET HERE AND, AND WE TRIED TO SAY 200 FEET. THERE WERE 400 FEET THERE. I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I'M JUST, MY THOUGHT IS, IS JUST BECAUSE WHOEVER WAS PART OF THOSE DECISIONS, WHATEVER YEAR, WHATEVER COUNCIL, WHATEVER PLANNING COMMISSION THAT DIDN'T, DIDN'T, UH, SEE THE FUTURE OF THAT ONE DAY, WE'D BE LOOKING AT THIS USE AND HOW DIFFERENTLY, YOU KNOW, A, A JUNKYARD VERSUS, YOU KNOW, A DATA CENTER IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. YES. YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR THEM CRUNCHING THE, YOU KNOW, THE METAL AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. I JUST THINK I, I, AND BRUCE PUT IT, WHEN HE JUST PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE ABOUT A FOOTBALL FIELD, I START THINKING, YOU KNOW, MY HOUSE, BECAUSE IS THAT CLOSE TO, I CAN HEAR THE FOOTBALL FIELD FROM MINE, . YEAH, I KNOW. SO CAN I, I KNOW, AND I LIVE, YOU KNOW, I LIVE ON LYNDON STREET AND THAT'S ALL THE WAY OVER DOWN AT THE FOOTBALL STADIUM, AND I CAN HEAR THEM CHEER WHEN THEY SCORE, WHICH I NOT LIKE THIS YEAR. BUT, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, THAT, THAT WHOLE IDEA, SO, WELL, I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT COUNCIL WOULD'VE SAW THE HAZARDOUS MATERIAL STORAGE AND THOUGHT, I WOULD'VE THOUGHT THAT FROM WHEN THAT LIKE, THAT ORDINANCE WAS THE REALLY LAST AMENDED BACK IN THE EARLY TWO THOUSANDS. SOME OF THESE USES PROBABLY PRE YEAH. AND THEY JUST DIDN'T CHANGE 'EM THINK OUR, OUR PHILOSOPHY IN THE APARTMENT, WHAT THE ORDINANCE NEEDS WORK. YEAH. AND I ALWAYS TELL, YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE ASK ME, IT'S LIKE EATEN AN ELEPHANT. YEAH, SURE. YEAH. YOU KNOW, ONE BITE AT A TIME. IT, UH, NOW YOU ANSWER YOUR RIGHT. THAT'S, THAT'S OUR, IT IT NEEDS WORK DONE. THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. IT NEEDS WORK DONE. SO WE'RE JUST TRYING TO TAKE ONE BITE. YEAH. I MEAN, YOU BROUGHT UP, UH, IF I, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, YOU, YOU BROUGHT UP THE WAY THAT NEW TECHNOLOGIES CHANGING THE WAY THEY COOL THE WATER INSTEAD OF, UH, INSTEAD OF, UH, HAVING TO DRAW MORE. UM, THERE'S A CAVEAT THERE, BECAUSE THESE, THEY USE A LOT OF THE, THOSE COOLING ENGINE USE FOREVER CHEMICALS AND, UH, THOSE FOREVER CHEMICALS. I MEAN, I, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE THE NO, I, I, I'M, I'M JUST TRYING TO BE STRAIGHTFORWARD. I, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND. I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND. BECAUSE, UM, UH, THEY CAN FIND A WAY INTO YOUR GROUNDWATER. THEY ALSO USE IT IN FIRE SUPPRESSANT. UM, WHEN YOU, [01:20:02] WHEN DATA CENTERS DO HAVE FIRES. UH, SO, UM, I JUST WANTED TO, YEAH. SO I, I GUESS THE, THESE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT, THAT THE PUBLIC NEEDS DONE, KNOW, AND UNDERSTAND, BECAUSE SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT, UH, FILLED IN WITH, WITH ALL RIGHT. AND THEY TRUST US. MM-HMM . YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TRUSTING US TO GET ALL THE INFORMATION. SO I KIND OF RELATE IT TO THE QUESTION FROM, UH, WHERE THE PLANNING COMMISSION ASKED THE QUESTION, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF, IF, UH, SOMEONE CAME IN TODAY FOR AN APPLICATION? RIGHT? SO WE HAVEN'T, YOU, YOU HAVE AN INCLUSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE. IT INCLUDES WHAT'S LISTED, RIGHT? SO WE GO TO THAT LIST. IT INCLUDES THESE USES, DATA CENTERS IS NOT THERE. SO WE WOULD HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION, WELL, THE ZONING DETERMINATION DATA CENTERS IS NOT INCLUDED. NOW, IS THAT PROHIBITED? IT'S NOT INCLUDED TO GIVE YOU AN ANSWER. RIGHT. SO THEY WOULD APPEAL THE DECISION OF THE ZONING DETERMINATION TO THE BZA. BZA WOULD MAKE A DETERMINATION EITHER THE SITE DECIDE WITH THE ZONING DETERMINATION FROM TOWN, OR THEY WOULD SAY THE APPLICANT, YES, THIS SHOULD BE INCLUDED. RIGHT. THE BCA WOULD MAKE THAT DETERMINATION. IF THEY VOTED IN FAVOR OF STAFF, THEN THE APPLICANT HAS THE, UH, OPPORTUNITY TO APPEAL THAT DECISION. THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE APPLICANT, THEN THAT GOES TO THE COURT SYSTEM. SO TYPICALLY THE COURT SYSTEM VOTES IN FAVOR OF THE PROPERTY OWNER ON THESE DECISIONS BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE, THE, THE CONSTITUTION ALLOWS THEM TO DO THE DUE PROCESS. SO I MEAN, THE, THE, THE QUESTION WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, BZA YOU BEFORE YOU SWITCH YOUR SCREEN. OKAY. IF THE BZA WOULD AGREE WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER WE'RE DONE, YEAH. IT WOULD BE BACK TO, IT COULD BE A ABOUT RIGHT USE. THEY COULD SAY, WE MAY DETERMINATION THIS SHOULD, THIS DISLIKE IS SIMILAR, WHATEVER ABOUT RIGHT. USE, AND YOU'RE STUCK WITH TOWN CAN BE MORE BA. OKAY. OKAY. GOOD. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING, SOME THINGS KIND OF GET OUT OF, WOULD BE OUTTA YOUR CONTROL. SO THIS COUNSEL, I, YEAH. BASED ME THOUGHT I HAD QUESTION, MY QUESTION WAS, IN YEARS PAST, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO ALL WAS HERE FOR THAT TIME, BUT WHEN WE'VE HAD SOMETHING OF THIS MAGNITUDE COME UP WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, LIKE WHEN WE REWROTE OUR, UM, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UM, WE HAD JOINT MEETINGS WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THE COUNCIL AND PLANNING COMMISSION IN THIS ROOM. WE SET UP A HUGE TABLE. UM, AND I WAS WONDERING IF MAYBE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, SINCE IT SOUNDS LIKE SOME OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS STILL HAVE THINGS THEY WANTED TO ADDRESS. I JUST, I'M SITTING HERE PROCESSING INFORMATION AS WE HAVE BEEN FOR WEEKS. WE KNEW THIS WAS COMING, BUT I DON'T FEEL LIKE I CAN SIT HERE AND CONFIDENTLY SAY THAT I COULD HAVE A VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN THIS SUBJECT MATTER RIGHT NOW. AND SO I'M JUST WONDERING IF MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE THE TIME OR APPETITE TO DO. AND THEN THAT WAY WE'RE ALL GETTING THE INFORMATION AT THE SAME TIME. WE'RE ALL KIND OF, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROTOCOL OR THE REQUIREMENTS TO BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT ARE, BUT I THINK THIS WOULD DEFINITELY CONSTITUTE BEING ABLE TO GET ALL IN ONE ROOM AND PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER IN CONTEXT. THERE WAS ONLY ONE PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBER THAT STILL HAD QUESTIONS. THEY ARTICULATED THOSE DURING THEIR DISCUSSION. UM, AND DID WE, AND AND THE THE QUESTIONS THAT THEY ASKED, THOSE PARTS OF IT THAT THE COMMISSIONER ASKED, HAD BEEN ADDRESSED IN YEAR, IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE SAYING? I BELIEVE THEY'RE, THEY WERE, THEY WERE ADDRESSED WITH PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS. OKAY. IT QUESTION WAS ANSWERED AT THAT TIME. IT'S KINDA LIKE A GAMBLE OF URGENCY, YOU KNOW? THAT'S, THAT'S TRUE. THE LONGER, THE LONGER THAT WE DON'T ADDRESS IT, YOU KNOW, THAT, UM, I MEAN, IT, IT SEEMS TO BE GETTING TO THE TIPPING POINT. BUT, UM, UH, BACK TO BRUCE'S IDEA OF THE ATTORNEY. I, I KNOW THAT THERE WAS SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE, AND I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THIS GOT ADDRESSED, BUT WE HAVE LANGUAGE LIKE WHENEVER POSSIBLE AND ARE ENCOURAGED, YOU KNOW, WHICH ARE LOVELY WHEN YOU'RE WRITING, BUT IT CERTAINLY LEAVES AN OUT FOR, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR PEOPLE TO WEASEL IN AND OUT. SO I THINK WE REALLY NEED SOME ADVISEMENT [01:25:01] LEGALLY ON CAN WE MAKE THAT LANGUAGE DIFFERENT SO THAT IT'S NOT, DOESN'T LEAVE THAT OUT. I MEAN, I DON'T THINK THAT'S ARBITRARY BECAUSE IF WE, IF WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE, UH, A LIMITED POWER GRID AND LIMITED AMOUNT OF WATER, THEN WE HAVE TO EXPECT THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE AN INNOVATIVE RESOURCE TO BE ABLE TO FIT INTO OUR SYSTEM. UM, SO I DON'T, TO ME, THAT'S NOT ARBITRARY. SO I FEEL LIKE WE DON'T, WE DON'T LEAVE THEM THAT OUT OF, WHENEVER POSSIBLE YOU HAVE TO DO THIS OR WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO JUST NO, YOU MUST, YOU MUST DO THIS. THAT'S THE PART OF THE, YOU KNOW, NOT TRY TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION IS THAT'S THE PART WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE TO SUBMIT THIS IMPACT ANALYSIS. SO IF WE DON'T HAVE THE WATER, YOU SAY NO, IF WE CAN'T PROVIDE ELECTRICITY, THAT'S A NO. I MEAN, THE, ALL OF THE CONCERNS HAVE TO BE ADDRESSED HERE. OR I MEAN, IT'S GONNA GO TO CAN'T THEY JUST PROFFER TO IMPROVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE THEY HAVE TO REZONING NING PROPERS IS ONLY FOR REZONINGS. BUT I MEAN, THERE'S BEEN TIMES BEFORE WHEN I FIRST GOT ON COUNCIL, THE DATA CENTER ACTUALLY DID COME TO FRONT ROYAL, AND THEY WERE TALKING, THEY DIDN'T COME. THEY, WELL, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT'S CLEAR BEFORE EVERYBODY SAYS, SEE, THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN HERE. NO, THEY HAVE NOT. ANYWAYS, THEY WERE LIKE, WELL, WE WILL IMPROVE X, Y, AND Z. LIKE, THEY WERE, THEY WERE OFFERING THESE IMPROVEMENTS. SO IF THEY WERE TO OFFER TO DO THAT, AND WE WERE STILL LIKE, NO, WE DON'T HAVE THE WATER OR ELECTRIC, AND WE DON'T WANT YOU TO DO THAT, THEN ISN'T THAT ARBITRARY TOO, BECAUSE THEY'RE OFFERING TO DO IT. AND WE'RE SAYING, NO, WE DON'T WANT THEM TO DO IT, BUT IT WOULD MAKE THE IMPROVEMENTS TO PROVIDE IT. BUT WE STILL HAVE THE FINAL YES OR NO. AND IN SUP WE HAVE THE FINAL YES OR NO CASE BASIS. AND BY CASE, CASE BY CASE BASIS, WE'VE BEEN SUED FOR ARBITRARY REASONS THAT DON'T BELONG IN COURT. I MEAN, I'M JUST SAYING IT'S GONNA HAPPEN. WELL, WE WANT EVERY, WE HAVE, WE HAVE, WE WERE THE VICTORS EVERY TIME WE TRIED TO, AGAIN, I, I WOULD, I WOULD SUPPORT THIS. LIKE NOW, IF WE COULD HAVE IT VETTED BY A LAND, USE A PROFESSIONAL OUTTA RICHMOND. THAT'S, THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING IS THAT, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE, WE COULD HAVE THE, WE COULD BRING THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN AND WE COULD TRY TO SOLVE IT OURSELVES. OH, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA DO THAT. YEAH. THE REALITY IS, IS I THINK WE NEED THAT PROFESSIONAL. AND, AND, AND IF HE STAMPS IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY DO FOR A LIVING, THEN, YOU KNOW, I WOULD FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THIS DOCUMENT. THE STAFF NOT, WE'RE, WE'RE NOT EXPERTS. WE, WE DID THE RESEARCH THE BEST WE COULD AND CAME UP WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION WITH THIS ORDINANCE. I, I, I, YEAH, IT'S NOT, I'M NOT, IT'S NOT STAFFING. I WASN'T LAUGHING AT NO, NO, NO. I'M NOT SAYING THAT EITHER. YEAH. I WAS LAUGHING BECAUSE I WOULD LOVE AN EXPERT OPINION TOO. BUT THEM STAMPING IT WOULD NOT LIKE MAKE ME SLEEP BETTER AT NIGHT. BECAUSE LET'S BE HONEST, SOME OF THOSE BIG WIG LAND USE ATTORNEYS ARE WORKING FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED THE LAND USE. WELL, SO MAYBE WE CAN FIND ONE THAT'S GONNA WORK ON OUR BEHALF. SO NOT REPRESENTED ALL PARTIES INVOLVED. I, I, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S JUST, AND THAT'S NOT A STAFF DECISION. YEAH, YOUR HONOR. SO WHAT'S BEFORE US IS WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE, WHETHER OR NOT COUNSEL WANTS TO MOVE THIS TO A PUBLIC HEARING OR WHETHER OR NOT COUNSEL WANTS TO SEND IT BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION IF YOU CHOOSE THE LATTER, I BELIEVE. RIGHT? NO, WAIT. ANOTHER WORK SESSION OR WORK SESSION SESSION. I'M SORRY. WHAT? IF YOU WANT TO GIVE IT TIME, WE CAN VISIT IT IN NOVEMBER AND WE CAN EXPLORE SOME OF THESE IDEAS FOR ANOTHER WORK SESSION. OKAY. THAT'S ALSO ALL I WAS GONNA SAY IS, IS THAT TO SAY WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE IT, WE NEED TO AT LEAST HAVE A, LIKE, WHAT IS IT THAT WE WANNA CONTINUE, NOT JUST, WE'RE GONNA, RIGHT, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT IT AND GET IN NOVEMBER. LIKE WHAT ARE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE LOOKED AT OR DO YOU BELIEVE NEED TO BE LOOKED AT? 'CAUSE IF IT'S WHAT COUNCILMAN RAPPAPORT'S TALKING ABOUT THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU ALL, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE FOR YOU ALL TO DO. THAT WOULD BE US TRYING, OR, YOU KNOW, STAFF TRYING HERE TRYING TO FIND A LAND USE ATTORNEY. UM, THAT WOULD, AND, AND LET ME JUST SAY MR. SCIENCE AN EXCELLENT ATTORNEY. NOBODY, NOBODY DOUBTS THAT COUNSEL MADE MY POSITION ON THAT ARE NOT HIS. BUT ONE THING I WILL SAY THAT I HAVE LEARNED IS DIFFERENT ATTORNEYS ARE EXPERTS AT DIFFERENT THINGS. THAT'S THEIR, THEIR, THAT'S THEIR, UH, BILL HOUSE. SO WOULD WOULD YEAH, GO AHEAD. WELL, IF I MAY, YEAH. THAT ATTORNEY, THE PROFESSIONAL THAT I'M SPEAKING OF, CAN MAKE A SUGGESTION TO [01:30:01] THIS, WELL, YOU NEED TO CHANGE THIS, OR YOU NEED TO TIGHTEN THIS UP. OR, AND, AND THAT, THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE THE, THE BENEFIT OF, OF HAVING THAT INDIVIDUAL. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. SO CAN COUNSEL COME TO A CONSENSUS TO GIVE YOU AND STAFF DIRECTION TO GET SOLICIT? I DON'T KNOW. IS IT BIDS? WHAT DO WE DO TO HAVE IT REVIEWED? WHAT'S THE PROPER? IT WOULD PROBABLY BE TO JUST LOOK FOR PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT DO, THAT ARE ABLE TO DO IT. AND I'M SURE PLANNING AND ZONING DOESN'T HAVE THIS IN YOUR BUDGET TO SHE CAN REALLOCATE MONEY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YEAH, IT WOULD, SHE'S RIGHT. JUST SO EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS WOULD BE, WE WOULD'VE TO REALLOCATE SOME MONEY TO PLANNING AND ZONING DEPARTMENT IN ORDER TO DO THAT. I THINK IT WOULD BE MONEY WELL SPENT. NOT AT ALL. I'M JUST SAYING, LIKE, I KNOW THEY DON'T HAVE THIS KIND OF MONEY IN THEIR BUDGET. BUT, UH, IS THAT, GO AHEAD. IS THAT WHAT COUNSEL IS WISHING FOR US TO DO? WE'LL GET WITH THE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE CHECKED OUT, BUT, UH, AND TO TALK WITH LEGAL TO, UH, SEE LEGAL COUNSEL. OKAY. COULD I SUGGEST WE COULD BE UPDATED ON IT CORRECT. PRIOR TO THE NEXT WORK SESSION? SO THEN MAYBE WE CAN HAVE SOMETHING TO ACTUALLY, WE'LL SEE. YEAH, WE CAN, WE'LL, I'LL TALK WITH BJ FIRST SO WE ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO COME BACK TO UPDATE YOU ALL WHAT THAT PROCESS LOOKS LIKE. YEAH. AND IF THEY, IF THEY CAN'T BE REVIEWING IT BEFORE OUR NOVEMBER WORK SESSION, THEN IT'S, WE'RE GONNA PUT IT ON THE WORK SESSION. BUT I DO BELIEVE TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE AS, AS, AS, UH, COUNCILMAN DE DO PAIN SAID, I DON'T THINK THIS IS, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING WE'RE GONNA BE SIX MONTHS FROM NOW TALKING ABOUT. I'D LOVE TO KICK THE CANS ON. GONE FROM HERE. SHOOT IS HAPPEN THING. UM, ANYWAY, ALL RIGHT. SO EVERYBODY'S COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. AGAIN, I, I, I THINK THERE WERE MANY PEOPLE AT THAT MEETING AND WATCHED IT AND READ ARTICLES AND OR WERE THERE THAT RECOGNIZED THAT THERE WERE A LOT OF THINGS IN PLACE THAT WERE GOING TO PROTECT US ALREADY. SO I JUST WANNA SAY THANKS AGAIN. NOT TO JUST YOU ALL, BUT THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND, AND YOU KNOW, I KNOW A LOT OF EFFORT WENT INTO IT. UM, AND I DO APPRECIATE THAT. SO I NEED TO ASK ABOUT THE EXPERTISE. UH, SHOULD THE ATTORNEY ALSO HAVE AN EXPERTISE IN LIKE MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT, WHAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO, I MEAN, WOULD THAT, WOULD THAT BE INHERENT IN THEIR LAND USE? WELL, FIRST OF ALL, ATTORNEYS DON'T, UH, ARE NOT EXPERTS IN ANY AREA. OKAY. THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THAT. UH, SO THEY, UM, THEY HAVE AN, AN EMPHASIS IN CERTAIN AREAS OF LAW. MM-HMM . SO YES, LAND USE. BUT I MEAN, I FEEL LIKE THEY ALSO NEED THE EMPHASIS OF WHAT WE COULD FLAT OUT SAY NO TO, OR, YOU KNOW, THESE LITTLE ISSUES. WHAT'S ARBITRARY, THE LAND SURVEYS THAT THE COUNSEL HAS USED PRIOR HAVE HAD THAT, BECAUSE I HAVE SPOKEN DIRECTLY WITH THOSE ATTORNEYS ON MATTERS YEARS PRIOR. AND THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, BLATANTLY TOLD ME LIKE, THIS WILL GET YOU IN TROUBLE, OR THIS, YOU CAN'T DO THIS, YOU CAN'T DO. UM, AND SO IT'S GONE HAND IN HAND, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. OH, GOOD. AND I THINK IT'S BECAUSE IT'S THE STATE CODE AS THE DRIVER, RIGHT? OH, SORRY. UH, FOR THE LAND USE, THEY HAVE THE STATE CODE AS THEIR OUTLINE. SURE. AND THEN ANYTHING THAT FALLS WITHIN OUR MUNICIPALITY, YOU WOULD BE NOT THE EXPERT. 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T CALL YOURSELF THAT , BUT GOVERNMENT MANAGER, YOU WOULD BE THE EXPERT FOR US. YES. JUST, JUST TO CLARIFY, 'CAUSE SOMEBODY BROUGHT THIS UP RECENTLY TOO, IS THERE IS SOME, THERE IS, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT STILL BELIEVE THAT WE COULD, THAT THE TOWN COULD BAN DATA CENTERS ALTOGETHER AND THAT THE DILL RULE DIDN'T APPLY TO THIS. I KNOW THERE, THAT WAS THE CONVERSATION AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION TOO. BUT MR. SONNET IS, IS IT YOUR OPINION THAT WE CAN'T BAN THEM? I WOULD, I WOULD GIVE THAT OPINION AND CONFIDENCE. OKAY. AS, AS I SAID EARLIER ABOUT. THAT'S FINE. THAT'S FINE. I JUST, JUST WANTED TO, ALL RIGHT. SO FOR F WE'RE GONNA TO BE DETERMINED. WE'RE GONNA, OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. DO YOU, DO YOU HAVE ANY CIVIC QUESTIONS OF THE, THE LANGUAGE OR ANYTHING THAT I THINK I DIDN'T CHECKS NORMALLY? WELL, YOU GUYS KNOW MY STATS ON ANYWAYS, AND I DIDN'T, I WASN'T VERY VERBAL THROUGHOUT THIS WHOLE PRESENTATION FOR A REASON. 'CAUSE I WAS LISTENING. YOU GUYS I THINK DID A GREAT JOB WITH IT. UM, BUT I THINK COUNSEL RAPPAPORT BROUGHT UP A VERY GOOD POINT, AND I THOUGHT YOU BROUGHT A GOOD VERY POINT. VERY GOOD POINT ABOUT, UH, THE ARBITRARY POINTS THAT WERE MADE. UM, I WOULD LIKE TO, I WOULD THINK THAT THE ROUTE THAT WE'RE TAKING WOULD MAYBE CLARIFY SOME OF THAT, SOME OF THOSE ARBITRARY, YOU KNOW, PARTS OF IT. IT HOPEFULLY IT WILL MAKE 'EM LESS ARBITRARY BECAUSE I AGREE. I MEAN, LIKE, LIKE MAYOR [01:35:01] ELL SAID, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, UH, NEW SETBACK FROM, FROM THE, UH, AGRICULTURE AREA FROM ZERO FEET. THAT'S TO ME, I MEAN, I, I, I, I WOULD, I THINK THAT'S RATHER, YOU KNOW, OUTDATED IN MY OPINION, YOU KNOW, SO I WOULD GO AS FAR, I DON'T, AGAIN, THIS, I'M JUST THROWING THIS OUT AS A SIDEBAR, BUT TO MAKE IT LESS ARBITRARY, I, I AGREE. LIKE WHAT JOHN WAS SAYING, MAKING THAT STRICTER AND WITHOUT LOOKING AT, LOOKING AT THAT, BUT WELL MAYBE MAKE THAT STRICTER TOO. I DON'T KNOW. I'M JUST SAYING OVERALL, BUT LIKE Y'ALL SAID, THAT THAT'S PART OF THE I TWO ZONING, YOU KNOW, ORDINANCE OF ITSELF THEY CURRENTLY HAVE. YEAH. YEAH. AND I SAID, YOU AND I AGREE, THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE STRONGEST ORDINANCES OF ITS TYPE, PROBABLY IN VIRGINIA. BUT I WANT TO, BUT I WANT TO ELABORATE ON THAT SINCE THAT ONE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE RIGHT AT BLUE RIDGE MOUNTAIN DRYER, WHICH IS KIND OF LIKE A CURTAIN RIGHT HERE OF WHAT THE RIGHT RACE OF NORTHERN VIRGINIA IS . SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE'RE, THE APPROACH THAT WE'RE GONNA TAKE IS CLEAR AND, AND STRONG, YOU KNOW, AND, AND TAKES A LOT, AS MUCH GUESSWORK OUT AS POSSIBLE. FROM WHAT, FROM WHAT, UM, SOMEBODY WILL COMING IN HERE WOULD, WOULD SEE WHAT, HOW THE TOWN VIEWS 'EM. SO, UM, AGAIN, I, I THINK THIS IS A GOOD, A GOOD START. YOU KNOW, AS I SAID, IT'S, IT'S WAY MORE THAN WHAT, UM, WAY MORE THAN WHAT I INITIALLY THOUGHT PRIOR TO PLANNING COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, INVOLVING WHAT WAS GONNA BE PRESENTED, YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS, BUT, UM, AND I AGREE AGAIN, THERE'S SOME ARBITRARY POINTS, YOU KNOW, LIKE, LIKE COUNCIL REPPORT POINTED OUT, YOU KNOW, UH, HAVING SOME CLARIFICATION ON IT, YOU KNOW, AND, AND GIVEN, LIKE I SAID, THIS WAS A, A, A GREAT STANCE, A GREAT, YOU KNOW, A GREAT, UH, GREAT WORK, I SHOULD SAY. YOU KNOW, SO, UH, BUT YEAH. BUT IF WE CAN FINE TUNE IT SOMEWHERE, THEN ALL THE BETTER. WE, WE HAVE YOUR PRESENTATION. MM-HMM . I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE IF THAT PAGE IS ON THERE WHERE IT, IT HAD THE, LIKE THE 40 FEET, THE A HUNDRED FEET. OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE, BECAUSE A HUNDRED FEET FROM AG WOULD BE ABOUT 30 YARDS ON FOOTBALL FIELD, RIGHT? YOU KNOW, 30, YEAH. 33. RIGHT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH. WE WILL REVISIT. YEP. AND, AND YOU GUYS ARE THE NEXT, WHICH IS ALSO UNFINISHED BUSINESS. OKAY. HAPPY BIRTHDAY. HAPPY BIRTHDAY, JOHN. THANK YOU. YEAH, DON'T REMIND ANOTHER DECADE. SO THE UNFINISHED BUSINESS IS THE ZONING, UM, TEXT AMENDMENTS. DON'T GO 1 75 DASH THREE DEFINITIONS TO DEFINE DESIGNATED SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE HOUSING. UH, AND YOU GUYS CAN READ ALL OF THAT ANYWAY, BUT , BECAUSE THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF NUMBERS AND A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS, LETTERS. UM, BUT SO, AND THIS WAS BECAUSE, UH, COUNSEL SENT IT BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION TO MAKE EDITS TO CLARIFY THE TEXT. THEY DID THAT AND HELD A PUBLIC HEARING ON SEPTEMBER 17TH, AND THEY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF TOWN COUNCIL. ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE UP. THE SHORT AND SWEET OF THIS IS PRIOR TO THE LANGUAGE DID, THERE'S SOME AMBIGUITY AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT MATCHED STATE CODE. IT NOW MATCHES STATE CODE. SO THAT THOSE WERE THE CHANGES MADE. SO, AND IT'S IN THIS, UM, IT'S IN THE DEFINITION WOULD BE NO MORE THAN EIGHT INDIVIDUALS, NO MORE STAFF MEMBERS. UM, AND THEN I THINK WE CHANGED SOME OF THE, UM, LANGUAGE IN THE CONGREGATE, OR SORRY, IN ALL OF THE DEFINITIONS. AND THOSE WERE THE, THOSE WERE THE MAIN CHANGES. THEY WERE JUST LITTLE TWEAKS OF WORDS, UM, HERE AND THERE. IT WASN'T, IT WASN'T COMPLETELY . WE, SO WE, BECAUSE I HAVE, WELL, YOU KNOW, I HAD A LOT OF COMMENTS EARLIER ABOUT THIS, BUT, SO THE POPULATIONS THAT AREN'T, WE HAVE, WE HAVE, UM, SINGLED OUT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE STATE CODE. MM-HMM . THEY MENTIONED THOSE POPULATIONS, AND THAT'S IT. WE HAVE, UM, YEAH, SO LIKE BELIEVE THE, LIKE THE DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITY SEEMS LIKE THAT THAT'S, THAT'S DEFINED IN, IN STATE CODE. WE DIDN'T DEVIATE. YEAH. WE ARE THE, OKAY. THE DESIGNATED SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE HOUSING IS RESIDENTIAL ACCOMMODATIONS SPECIFICALLY UTILIZED TO MEET THE NEEDS OF HOUSING FOR INDIVIDUALS THAT FALL WITHIN THE FOLLOWING CATEGORIES. AND ITS DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, VETERANS EMERGENCY FAMILY SHELTER, WHICH DOES INCLUDE INDIVIDUALS AND SHELTER FOR DOMESTIC ABUSE AND SHELTER FOR AT RISK CHILDREN. AND I, MY ISSUE WITH THAT WAS, UM, AND [01:40:01] I DID NOT EXPECT PLANNING COMMISSION TO LIST EVERY POPULATION THAT NEEDED HELP, BUT IT WAS A RECOGNITION OF, DOES THIS MEAN, SO AGAIN, THESE ARE THE ONLY POPULATIONS THAT ARE MENTIONED IN THE STATE CODE BECAUSE WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE PEOPLE, FOR INSTANCE. SO WE, WE, YOU KNOW, I WOULD WANT, I WOULD NOT WANT TO RESTRICT, UM, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT YOU, THEY, I KNOW THAT THEY CAN GO THROUGH A PROCESS, BUT WHAT, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS MAKING THE PEOPLE WITH THE BIGGEST NEED GO THROUGH THE MOST ARDUOUS PROCESS TO HAVE A SPECIAL EXCEPTION. SO SPECIAL IF YOU DON'T LIST SPECIAL USE, I MEAN, UM, EXCUSE ME. IF YOU DON'T LIST SUBSTANCE USE, PEOPLE WITH SUBSTANCE USE ISSUES, IF YOU DON'T MENTION HUMAN TRAFFICKING VICTIMS, IF UM, IF YOU DON'T MENTION PEOPLE WHO HAVE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, THEN ARE YOU MAKING THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE VERY HIGH NEED HAVE TO GO THROUGH EXTRA HOOPS TO BE CONSIDERED? I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT THIS IS DOING. OKAY. I DON'T SEE THAT AS LIKE, LIKE THAT'S FANTASTIC. THE INTENT. YEAH. THE INTENT IS LITERALLY TO LIKE REMOVE BARRIERS FOR THESE, THESE SPECIAL, LIKE THESE GROUPS WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY. BECAUSE LIKE FOR THE, LIKE THE LODGING HOUSES THAT WE DO, THAT IS FOR THEIR, UM, I GUESS WHEN THEY COME OUT OF LIKE A TREATMENT FACILITY AND THEY'RE TRYING TO GET REINTEGRATED BACK, BUT THEY'RE ALSO PAYING LIKE A SMALL FEE. SO THERE'S, THERE'S LITTLE NUANCES IN THE DEFINITIONS OF THE LODGING HOUSE. AND THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM A SHELTER. SO A SHELTER, THEY'RE NOT TAKING IN FEES. SO THAT'S WHY IT'S, IT'S DIFFERENT. AND A SHELTER IS DIFFERENT DEFINED USE IN STATE CODE TOO. SO LIKE, THIS WAS JUST TO KIND OF PARSE OUT SOME OF THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY. WE ARE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE EVERY SINGLE ONE. BUT THE ENTIRE GOAL WAS TO REMOVE BARRIERS AND MAKE IT EASIER TO HELP PEOPLE, UH, MAKE IT HARDER. I HAVE A QUESTION. GO AHEAD. DOES THIS COVER WHAT WE WERE THREATENED TO BE SUED FOR AT THE LAST MEETING WITH PEOPLE USING SHORT TERM LIVING FOR SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES AS A VIOLATION OF OUR ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT? SO WITH THAT ONE, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE LIVING LONG TERM IN HOTELS AND MOTELS. AND SO WE'RE GONNA BE ENACTING, OR WELL, WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT SOME CODE CHANGES TO THE DEFINITION OF HOTEL MOTEL TO ADDRESS THAT. BUT YOU KNOW, THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS THESE PEOPLE HAVEN'T LOOKED CORRECT. I MEAN, YEAH, IT'S ANYBODY THAT'S BEEN ON THIS COUNCIL OR RED NOT READ, WATCHED A MEETING, KNOWS THAT WHEN I FIRST GO ON, I WAS LIKE, WOW, WHY DON'T WE BULL DOSE SOME OF THESE AWFUL PLACES WHERE MY FRIENDS HAVE DIED AND YOU KNOW, WHEN THE COPS ARE OUTSIDE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A DOMESTIC OR AN OVERDOSE. AND THEN I REALIZED, OH WOW, THERE'S A LOT OF INNOCENT CHILDREN LIVING IN ALL OF THEM, AND AT LEAST THEY HAVE A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS. SO NO, I'M NOT SAYING THAT I WANT THEM TO BE DISPLACED. I'M ASKING HOW THERE IS NO OTHER ANSWER OR OPTION RIGHT NOW. THIS WILL POTENTIALLY GIVE THEM ANOTHER AVENUE AS OPPOSED TO . THAT'S WHAT I WAS, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR THE SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE HOUSING. THAT'S WHAT I WAS HOPING IN ADDRESS. THE COLD MONTHS ARE COMING, SO IT'S, IT'S GONNA BE MORE PROMINENT, PREVALENT IN OUR COMMUNITY. WE DO HAVE A THERMAL SHELTER, BUT WE HAVE, WE HAVE RESIDENTS THAT ARE ALREADY FIGHTING BACK AGAINST THAT, WHICH THEY DO EVERY YEAR. AND THE THERMAL SHELTER IS UNFORTUNATELY NOT AN IDEAL PLACE FOR THE CHILDREN. WELL, THEY CAN'T, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. LIKE, AND THAT'S AN ACCESSORY USE. SO IT'S NOT A SEPARATE LODGING HOUSE. IT DOES NOT REQUIRE, IT'S A CHURCH PERMIT. IT'S A, IT'S A CHURCH AND IT'S AN ACCESSORIES. WE DEAL WITH IT EVERY SINGLE YEAR. IT'S REGULATED UNDER STATE CODE. MM-HMM . SO, I'M SORRY, I'M BEING KIND OF DENSE. I'M TIRED. UM, SO IF I WANTED TO START A GROUP HOME, I'M NOT. BUT, UM, UH, WITH, UM, PERSONS WITH MENTAL ILLNESS, I'M NOT COVERED UNDER DESIGNATED SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE HOUSING. SO THEREFORE I'M NOT COVERED IN THE USES BY SPECIAL PERMANENT THAT ARE PROTECTED. DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES WOULD COUNT. THAT'S NOT A DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITY. YOU, IF YOU'RE SCHIZOPHRENIC, YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE NOT DEVELOPING. BUT IT'S ALSO GONNA, I MEAN, WHEN YOU WOULD COME IN, WE WOULD HAVE THE DISCUSSION, ARE YOU GONNA HAVE NURSING STAFF? LIKE WHAT TYPE OF STAFF? LIKE WHAT ARE THE ACTUAL LIKE CIRCUMSTANCES OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO? AND WE WOULD KEEP IT ALL PHYSICAL. WHAT? BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THERE'S THOSE, NO, THERE'S, THERE'S INDIVIDUAL IN IS COVERED UNDER INDIVIDUALS OF DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES. BUT THAT, BUT THAT IS NOT MENTIONED IN YOUR SPECIAL USE PERMIT. YOUR SPECIAL USE PERMIT SAYS UNDER RESIDENTIAL DESIGNATED SPECIAL [01:45:01] CIRCUMSTANCES HOUSING AND ONLY THOSE A, B, CDE ARE LISTED IN THAT DESIGNATED SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE HOUSING ONLY THOSE POPULATIONS. SO IF UNDER DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, RIGHT. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THIS DEFINITION, MENTAL WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, COMMA, INDIVIDUALS WITH MENTAL ILLNESS OR INTELLECTUAL DISABILITY TRANSITION FROM INSTITUTIONAL SETTINGS. SO YOU HAVE THAT'S CONSIDERED, THAT'S CONSIDERED COVERED. YEAH. YOU CAN PICK YOUR DEFINITION, DO IT. OKAY. SO, AND IT'S INCLUSIVE OF THAT. BUT ALSO, I MEAN IF IT'S SPECIAL AND JUST CERTAIN LEVEL OF PROTECTING THEIR PRIVACY AS WELL. AND THESE ALSO COME PUBLICATION, SO I'M NOT GONNA HAVE THEM LIFT OUT EVERY DISORDER, SOMEBODY STAYING NO, NO. AND THAT, BUT THAT'S NOT MY POINT. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WHEN YOU ARE LIMITING IT TO FIVE POPULATIONS THAT OTHERS MIGHT NOT FIT INTO, ARE YOU ALLOWING THEM TO BE FIT FITTING INTO THAT? THAT'S ALL. SO PEOPLE RUN THE FACILITY. IT SOUNDS LIKE THE A THOUGH SOUNDS LIKE, LIKE A IN INDIVIDUAL, IT SOUNDS LIKE EACH OF THOSE CATEGORIES COULD ALMOST HAVE A BULLET UNDER IT. OKAY. AND SHE'S SAYING THEY'RE COVERED. WE REVIEWED STATE CODES. OKAY. YEAH. AND I'M SURE STATE CODE'S NOT GONNA LEAVE PEOPLE, THOSE PEOPLE, THOSE GROUPS THAT YOU WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT. ALSO, WE HAVE LOW BARRIER SHELTERS. LIKE WE HAVE LOW BARRIER FACILITIES THAT JUST ABOUT ANYBODY CAN WALK INTO. UM, AND THAT'S I THINK ONE 17.1 SOMETHING OF THE STATE CODE. I MEAN THERE'S, THERE'S AS MUCH COVERAGE AS WE CAN DO. I THINK COUNCILMAN COUNCILWOMAN DE MACRO PAIN THOUGH. I THINK, I THINK WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY IS THAT YOU JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NOTHING BEING EXCLUDED HERE THAT WOULD CAUSE A GROUP OF CITIZENS THAT WE KNOW EXIST IN THE COMMUNITY FROM BEING ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS OR BE ABLE TO GET THIS SPECIAL EXCEPTION. RIGHT. BECAUSE THE WORDING IS NOT THERE. BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE MS. KAKI IS GIVING US CONFIDENCE THAT THOSE WORDINGS ARE IN OTHER PLACES, SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO PREVENT THEM FROM BEING ABLE TO HAVE THE SPECIAL USE HOUSING. RIGHT? YES. AND IT STILL COMES TO COUNSEL, AND I CAN SPEAK TO IT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I WENT BEFORE PLANNING AND ZONING AS A RESIDENT ABOUT, UM, A SHELTER OR A LODGING HOUSE, I DON'T KNOW, SIX MONTHS, NINE MONTHS, I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG AGO. AND HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THEM. AND SHE AND JOHN TAKE YOU INTO AN OFFICE, THE APPLICANT, THIS WASN'T ME, AT THE COUNCIL MEMBER INTO A ROOM. THEY ASK YOU WHAT YOUR GOAL IS, WHAT YOU PLAN TO DO WITH IT, WHO YOU PLAN TO HOUSE OR HELP. AND THEN THEIR JOB WAS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE THAT FIT OR WHAT DEFINITION IT FELL UNDER. AND SO I HAD NEVER EXPERIENCED IT, BUT IT WAS KIND OF NEAT TO SEE IT IN ACTION. UM, AND I'VE TALKED TO OTHER PEOPLE WHO'VE HAD 'EM, THE LODGING HOUSES IN FOR ROYAL SETS TOO. AND THAT'S HOW IT WORKS. IT'S KIND OF UP TO THEIR INTERPRETATION AND THEY KNOW THE APPETITE AND THE DESIRE OF THE COMMUNITY AND HOW, SO THEY FIND A WAY, LIKE, HOW IS THIS DEFINED? AND IF NOT, WHAT DO WE DO TO DEFINE IT? UM, AND, AND IT WAS THE SAME SITUATION WITH WE DON'T WANT IT TO GO TO COUNSEL SAYING WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE. SO THIS IS HOW IT WILL BE LISTED. AND COUNSEL WILL JUST HAVE TO HAVE YEAH. A VAGUE DESCRIPTION OR UNDERSTAND BECAUSE AT THAT TIME IT WAS FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN. SO IF EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THIS, THIS HAS TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. ARE YOU ALL, WHAT WERE YOU GETTING MY SAY? YOU OKAY WITH IT? WELL, NO, I WAS GOING TO, I JUST WANT, IT'S BEEN A LONG, LONG EVENING, BUT I JUST WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO THE PUBLIC THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT THIS IS BEING OPENED UP TO ALL RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS TO COMMUNITY. MM-HMM . AND ATYPICALLY. IT WAS NEVER PART OF R ONE, BUT NOW IT'S GOING TO BE PART OF R ONE. UM, SO THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THAT IN THERE, R ONE, UH, LOCATIONS THAT THERE, THROUGH SPECIAL USE PERMITTING, THERE COULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DEVELOPMENT DISABILITIES, VETERAN HOUSING, EMERGENCY FAMILY HOUSING, SHELTER FOR DOMESTIC ABUSE VICTIMS, AND E SHELTER FOR AT RISK CHILDREN. SO, SO POTENTIALLY THE [01:50:01] TYPICAL R ONE WILL WILL BE OPEN FOR DIFFERENT TYPE OF HOUSE ACCORDING TO MS. KAKI THAT ALREADY EXISTED IN THE STATE CODE. STATE CODE. WELL, IT, YEAH, IT MAY EXIST IN THE STATE CODE, BUT IT DIDN'T EXIST IN OUR CODE. RIGHT? YES. BUT IT EXISTS IN FRONT ROYAL. I BROUGHT THIS UP TO COUNCIL A COUPLE MONTHS AGO. THERE'S A HOUSE ON MY STREET MM-HMM . THAT I NOTICED THE CARS WERE CHANGING EVERY DAY. THEY WERE PARKED BACKWARD. THERE WAS A HUNDRED DIFFERENT PEOPLE IN AND OUT. YOU COULD TELL SOME OF THE PEOPLE THERE WEREN'T WELL OFF. SO I REACHED OUT TO TOWN AND I WAS LIKE, IS THIS LIKE AN AIRBNB OR THE HOUSE JUST SOLD FOR SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS? SO I WAS LIKE, WHAT'S GOING ON? IT WAS ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED, I THINK LAST YEAR AT THIS POINT BY THE TOWN OF ROYAL STAFF BECAUSE THE STATE CODE ALLOWS FOR IT. IT'S A LODGING HOUSE IN THE R ONE DISTRICT OFF JAMESTOWN ROAD, I THINK. UM, IT'S EXISTED FOR I THINK OVER A YEAR NOW. YEAH. AND I MEAN, THERE'S A DEFINITION OF WHAT IT'S CALLED. IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY A LODGING HOUSE, BUT IT'S WHAT WE, IT'S A GROUP HOME. IT'S A GROUP HOME, IT'S A GROUP HOME. AND THAT IS , BUT IT'S ALWAYS CHANGING THE PEOPLE. AND THE SO COUNCIL JUST, JUST WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO THE PUBLIC WHAT WELL THERE, WHAT'S, SO IF EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THIS, THIS WILL, WE WILL HAVE THIS AS A PUBLIC HEARING ON OCTOBER 27TH. YES. I HAVE, I HAVE ONE, ONE SIMPLE SUGGESTION. IT'S NOT ANYTHING THAT, UM, THERE'S A PART IN THERE THAT TALKS ABOUT WHO LICENSED SOMEBODY. AND I THINK PEOPLE SAYING LICENSED BY DSS, I WOULD JUST STRIKE THAT LICENSING LANGUAGE. 'CAUSE THE GOVERNMENT IS RESTRUCTURING ALL THE TIME ON WHO DOES, WHO OVERSEES WHAT. AND I WOULD JUST STRIKE, I WOULD JUST SAY LICENSED BY WHOEVER, BY THE, THE APPROPRIATE STATE AGENCY. I WOULD JUST LEAVE IT GENERIC, APPROPRIATE STATE AGENCY WOULD BE REALLY BAD. WELL, WE CAN MAKE THAT CHANGE AND THAT SHOULDN'T IMPACT. IT'S NOT EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THAT CHANGE HERE. SO THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT WILL BE IN THE PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. 'CAUSE WE HAVE PLENTY OF TIME BEFORE THE 27TH. WE'VE GOT 21 DAYS. 21 DAYS, RIGHT. THREE WEEKS FROM TODAY. RIGHT? WHAT'S WRONG LAUREN? YOU GOTTA GIVE TIA THE CHANGE SO SHE CAN ADVERTISE HER TOMORROW. OKAY. WE GOOD? MM-HMM . LIAISON COMMITTEE MEETINGS. SO HERE'S THE DEAL. WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE ONE NEXT THURSDAY NIGHT . AND, AND I'M JUST GOING TO, I'M GONNA HAVE TO REALLY STRUGGLE TO GET THERE AT SIX 'CAUSE I TOTALLY FORGOT THAT THE NEXT THURSDAY NIGHT PARENTS AT THE CONFERENCES IN WARREN COUNTY AND I THINK I HAVE A CONFERENCE TILL SIX, SO I'M GONNA DO MY VERY BEST TO SEE IF THEY CAN'T COME A LITTLE EARLIER. UM, SO I CAN GET THERE AT SIX OR IT MIGHT BE AT SIX 15 IF WE STILL HAVE IT. UM, BUT ALL THE ITEMS THAT WE HAD PLANNED FOR JULY, MR. PATTY, WHAT WERE YOU GONNA INTERRUPT ME? GO AHEAD. I WANT YOU TO, EXCEPT FOR NUMBER THREE, WHICH WAS WOULD THE FORMER AZTECS PROPERTY OKAY. FOR, STRIKE THAT. ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA STRIKE THAT. OTHERWISE I, SO IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE WERE GONNA TAKE BEFORE, IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH STILL CONTINUING TO TAKE ALL OF THAT? HAVE YOU TAKEN NUMBER THREE OUT, RIGHT? YES. THEY'RE GONNA TAKE NUMBER THREE OUT. CAN WE ADD SOMETHING IN THAT PLACE? IS THERE SOMETHING YOU WANNA SAY? I WAS JUST THINKING MAYBE THEY'LL HAVE AN UPDATE ON WHATEVER THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH THEIR WATER. THE WELL, YEAH, TOMORROW NIGHT THERE'S AN ITEM ON THEIR AGENDA. SOMETHING ABOUT INDUSTRIAL WELLS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO, BUT THEY'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT IT TOMORROW NIGHT. SO GO AHEAD. UH, I THINK THAT'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY. WE DO HAVE THE WATER CONSERVATION ENFORCEMENT FOR DROUGHT CONDITIONS IN THE CORRIDOR. AND I THINK THAT WOULD, I WOULD SAY, I THINK THAT COULD BE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO GET A RECAP ON THE, WELL, 'CAUSE IT'S KIND OF DISCUSSING DROUGHT CONDITIONS IN THEIR DRAFT PRESENTATIONS, BUT I THOUGHT THAT IN ADDITION TO EXERCISE DROUGHT, THERE'S, SO DO YOU MIND, BECAUSE TINA WILL NEED A COVER SHEET. DO YOU MIND ADD SPEAKING THAT COVER SHEET TO ADD THAT TO IT? OKAY. UM, AGAIN, IT'S NEXT THURSDAY NIGHT. UM, YOU STILL US TO NOPE. WE, WE MISSED OUR CHANCE. WE WERE, WE, THEY THEY KEEP CANCELING THE JULY ONE. WHEN, WHEN IT'S HERE. UH, THE ONES IN OCTOBER IS ALWAYS IN THE COUNTY. I MEAN, IS IT, THAT'S TWO PENDING. DO YOU, WHAT DO YOU WANT TO THAT'S WHO IT WAS FOR THE LAST TIME. THAT'S WHAT IT WAS FOR JULY. YEAH, THAT'S FINE. THAT'S FINE. THAT'S FINE. YEP. YEP. UM, WE GOT SOME PRETTY INTERESTING TOPICS. SO, UM, ALL RIGHT. YES. QUESTION. HAVE WE RECEIVED ANY TOPICS FROM THEM AND DO WE BELIEVE THEY'RE GONNA PARTICIPATE? HAVE YOU HEARD FROM THE CHAIR? I HAVE NOT. COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. I HAVE NOT. UM, I'VE NOT, AND [01:55:01] QUESTIONS. SOMEBODY JUST OPERATED. AND ACTUALLY THERE WAS ANOTHER, THERE WAS ANOTHER TOPIC AT ONE OF THEIR MEETINGS THAT THEY WERE ASKING ABOUT, ABOUT US, MAYBE THE TOWN MEETING WITH THEM. AND AS I RECALL THE CHAIR SAID, I'LL REACH OUT TO THE TOWN, BUT THAT'S BEEN A COUPLE MONTHS. NOBODY'S REACHED OUT TO ME. SO MAYBE IT WAS THE WATER ISSUE ON THE COURT. IT, IT, IT, NOPE, IT WAS ABOUT THE CASE SPRINGS. AND HONESTLY IN THE BATTLEFIELD, THEY HAVEN'T ADDED TO THE LAST SEVERAL LIAISON. EVEN THE ONES WE DID HAVE, THEY DIDN'T ADD ANY. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT BECAUSE I, I THINK COUNCILMAN INGRAM SAID SOMETHING THAT, THAT WOULD BE THE APPROPRIATE PLACE TO TALK ABOUT THE BATTLEFIELD SPRINGS AND YEAH. UM, ABOUT THAT. SO I WOULD THINK THAT THEY WOULD WANT TO AT LEAST INTRODUCE THAT INTO, WELL, WE'LL SEE DISCUSSION. 'CAUSE THEY, WE, WE HAD AN ITEM ON HERE. WELL OUR CASE SPRINGS WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY MIGHT START, I THINK IT WAS ABOUT THE FARM STAND AND STUFF, RIGHT. JUST TO SEE WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT. SO THAT'S, WE'LL BE ASKING FOR AN UPDATE ON THAT. YES. WE CAN OBVIOUSLY REACH OUT TO THEM. WE'LL SEND OVER THESE ITEMS THEY MEET TOMORROW, SO YES. THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO TAKE BACK A FEW THINGS BEFORE. YEAH. AND I BELIEVE THE REQUIREMENT IS THAT THEY SEND IT TO, WELL WE, WHOEVER'S HOSTING IT, WE HAVE TO SEND IT TO THEM BY LIKE MONDAY BEFORE THE THURSDAY. IT'S WEDNESDAY BEFORE THE, SO AS IN LIKE TWO DAYS FROM YEAH, BECAUSE IT HAS TO BE PUBLICIZED. WE'LL GIVE IT TO TOMORROW. SO WE'LL GET IT TO 'EM TOMORROW AND MAYBE THEY'LL AND, BUT, BUT LET'S DO SAY TO THEM IF YOU'RE ADDING ANYTHING, 'CAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THE CHAIRS LOOK AT THE ITEMS TO MAKE SURE WE WANT TO HAVE THOSE ON THE AGENDA. SO IF THEY'RE GONNA ADD SOMETHING, I, I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT IT IS SO I CAN REVIEW THAT BEFORE WE SAY YEAH. SO WE'LL GIVE IT OUR BEST WE CAN TRY. RIGHT? SO BY SKIPPING THE ONE IN JULY, WHICH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HERE, SO IT JUST AUTOMATICALLY MOVES TO THE NEXT LOCATION. WELL THAT'S WHAT I'M, LAST YEAR WHEN THEY CANCELED IT IN JULY. OKAY. SO, AND, AND I ONLY SAY THAT BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING WE APPROVED. IS THAT ALL THE JANUARY MM-HMM. AND OCTOBER ONES? MM-HMM. NO, NO. OTHERWISE YOU'D LOSE TIME. NO, WE ARE JANUARY. THEY'RE APRIL. MM-HMM. WE ARE JULY, OCTOBER. AND YOU AND I WENT IN APRIL. YEAH. AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY DURING THE MEETING. I THINK IT WAS 15 MINUTES LONG. YEAH, WE'RE JANUARY. WE'RE JANUARY, JULY. AND SO WE REALLY HAVE ONLY HOSTED IT ONCE IN THE, I MEAN, BECAUSE THEY CANCELED LAST YEAR. SO WE'LL SEE. AND I KNOW THEY HAVE A NEW COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND WHEN THEY CANCELED IT IN JULY, UM, THE CHAIRMAN HAD SAID THAT THEY WANTED TO WAIT UNTIL THEY HAD A NEW COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR ON STAFF AND NOW THEY DO. SO, UM, MR. GUT, IS IT SHAW OR HAW? UM, NOT KEN, KYLE, I DON'T BELIEVE, BUT ANYWAY, SHAW, SO WE'LL, UM, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THEY'LL HAVE SOMETHING THEY DO MEET TOMORROW NIGHT, SO MAYBE THEY'LL IS THERE MEETING TOMORROW NIGHT THOUGH A WORK SESSION? OR IS IT AN ACTUAL REGULAR MEETING? THINKS A REGULAR MEETING. OKAY. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'LL BE ADDING STUFF BECAUSE I THINK THEY HAVE PUBLIC HEARINGS. I MEAN, WE DISCUSSED WHAT WE'RE ADDING IN PUBLICLY, BUT I MAYBE THEY JUST SEND EMAILS. I DON'T EVEN KNOW. I DON'T REALLY KNOW, BUT WE'LL SEE. ALRIGHT, LAST TONIGHT IS A CLOSED SESSION AND WE HAVE A REVISED AGENDA. I'LL READ IT. OKAY. I MOVE THAT TOWN COUNCIL CONVENE A CLOSED MEETING PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 AND 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 2 OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSES. ONE, PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 1 A EIGHT TWO, CONSULTATION WITH LEGAL COUNSEL EMPLOYED OR RETAINED BY A PUBLIC BODY REGARDING SPECIFIC LEGAL MATTERS REQUIRING THE PROVISION OF LEGAL ADVICE BY SUCH COUNSEL. MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE PROVISION OF WATER AND SEWER SERVICES TO THE INDUSTRIAL USERS OUTSIDE OF TOWN LIMITS. AND TO PURSUANT TO SECTION 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 1 A THREE OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR THE DISCUSSION OF CONSIDERATION OF THE ACQUISITION OF REAL PROPERTY FOR PUBLIC PURPOSE OR OF THE DISPOSITION OF PUBLICLY HELD REAL PROPERTY, WHERE DISCUSSION IN AN OPEN MEETING WOULD ADVERSELY AFFECT THE BARGAINING POSITION OR NEGOTIATING STRATEGY OF THE PUBLIC BODY. MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE SALE OF VACANT AT 13,324 SQUARE FEET OF NORTH ROYAL AVENUE AND THE UNIMPROVED ALLEY BETWEEN NORTH ROYAL AVENUE AND VIRGINIA AVENUE. SECOND. OKAY. ROLL CALL. COUNCILMAN WOOD? YES. ? YES. ? YES. COUNCIL RAPPAPORT? YES. COUNCIL ? YES. COUNSEL? YES. OKAY. WE ARE ENCLOSED. THANKS EVERYBODY. HAVE A. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.