* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. YOU'RE ON. [00:00:01] OKAY. UH, I'LL [Planning and Zoning Work Session on October 1, 2025.] CALL TO ORDER THE PLANNING COMMISSION WORK SESSION FOR THE TOWER PARK ROYAL FOR WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 1ST. UH, THAT IS THE CALL TO ORDER. MS. POTTER, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL CHAIRMAN MARNER. HERE. VICE CHAIRMAN NEIL. HERE. COMMISSIONER FEDERICA. HERE. COMMISSIONER BROOKS IS NOT HERE. COMMISSIONER RAZZO? YES. OKAY. WE HAVE A QUORUM. WE HAVE A QUORUM WORK SESSION. BUSINESS ITEM NUMBER 1 2 5 0 0 3 1 9 FOR PUBLIC NECESSITY, CONVENIENCE, GENERAL WELFARE OR GOODS ZONING, PRACTICE ZONING, TEXT AMENDMENTS TO TOWN CODE SECTION 1 75 DASH THREE DEFINITIONS TO DEFINE THE USE OF AUXILIARY DWELLING UNIT TO AMEND RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS IN WHICH IT WOULD BE PERMITTED BY. RIGHT. AND TO ESTABLISH 1 75 DASH ONE 15 OH AUXILIARY DWELLING UNIT PERFORMANCE STANDARDS WITHIN SUPPLEMENTARY PROVISIONS OF TOWN CODE. DO WE HAVE A STAFF REPORT ON THIS? UH, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO ONE UP ON THE SCREEN. BASICALLY, THIS IS THE ONE, THE A DU PART OF THE CODE THAT YOU, UH, RECOMMENDED APPROVAL TOWN COUNCIL. THEY HAD TWO WORK SESSIONS ON THAT. UH, SO THE, THE LETTER THAT IS IN RED IS WHAT YOU, UH, REVIEWED PREVIOUSLY AND APPROVED. MM-HMM . AND OF COURSE THERE WAS SOME WITH A STRIKE BRUISE, WHICH PERTAINED TO THE, THAT THOSE CHANGES. UH, SO THE EXCHANGE THAT TOWN COUNCIL WOULD LIKE, UH, FOR YOU, US TO REVIEW THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS UNDER THE 1 75, 1 15 C AND D. THAT'S THE SECTIONS THAT, UH, IN RED, BUT HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW. THOSE ARE THE TWO CHANGES PLUS THE STRIKETHROUGHS UNDER C ONE A, B, C, D, AND E. SO THE CHANGE ON C IS FOR THE ETERNAL A DU NOT TO EXTEND BEYOND EXISTING FOOTPRINT OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, BASICALLY FOR THAT, THAT WOULD NOT LIMIT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE INTERIOR. SO IF ONCE SOME, BASICALLY WE THINK SOMEONE WANTS TO CONVERT THEIR BASEMENT INTO AN A DU, UH, WHICH WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A MINIMUM 600 SQUARE FOOT, THEY COULD. SO WE HAD IT IN THERE PREVIOUSLY. IT WAS A RATIO PROPORTION TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE PRIMARY. UH, SO TOWN COUNCIL BELIEVED WE SHOULD NOT LIMIT THEM, UH, ON THE EXISTING, IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING STRUCTURE, BUT THE TOWN COUNCIL FEELS YOU CAN'T ADD A ROOM FOR, YOU CAN INTERNALLY YOU CAN, BUT NOT RESTRICT THE SIZE. OKAY. AND A DU NEEDS EXTERNALLY, A DWELLING UNIT NEEDS 600 MINIMUM. OKAY. OKAY. UH, THAT'S ONE OF THE CHANGES. SO A DWELLING UNIT NEEDS 600 SQUARE FOOT. SO IF YOU WANTED TO ADD AN A DU TO YOUR HOUSE, ESSENTIALLY, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAD A BASEMENT MM-HMM . IN A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING, AND IF IT'S 1200 SQUARE FOOT OF A BASEMENT, YOU CAN CONVERT THE WHOLE THING INTO AN A D MM-HMM . IT WOULD NOT LIMIT THE SIZE OF THAT ON AN EXISTING HOME, BUT YOU CAN'T PUMP OUT. CORRECT. YOU WOULD ONLY BE ON EXISTING FOOTPRINT OF THE PRIMARY. AND THE SECOND CHANGE WOULD BE THE DETACHED ONE. SO YOU COULD HAVE A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, THEN BUILD AN A DU IN THE BACKYARD, FOR EXAMPLE. THAT ONE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THE MINIMUM OF 600 SQUARE FOOT, BUT NOT EXCEED A THOUSAND OR 80% OF THE GROSS FLOOR AREA OF THE PRIMARY OR THE PRINCIPLE. SO THAT STAYED THERE, JUST CHANGING THE A DU TO THE EXTERIOR FOR A MINIMUM OF 600 THAT WOULD ALIGN WITH THE CODE, WHERE A DWELLING UNIT IN OUR CODE IS 600. ANYWAY. SO THOSE NUMBERS WOULD ALIGN WITH A DWELLING UNIT MM-HMM . YEAH. WHERE THE 500 ORIGINALLY CAME FROM. IT JUST, IT JUST WAS A STANDARD USED IN OTHER PLACES. YEAH. AND IT WAS IN, UH, OUR PART OF THE CODE. YEAH. UH, WHICH GREG AND ARLINGTON COUNTY ALL USED 500. WELL, WE USED 500 IN OUR ACCESSORY USE. YEAH. SO IF YOU GO TO THE ACCESSORY USE DEFINITION THAT WE ARE STRIKING THROUGH, PREVIOUSLY, THEY COULD HAVE HAD AN A DU, BUT IT COULD NOT UTILIZE MORE THAN 500 SQUARE FEET. MM-HMM . BUT WE DEFINED THE DWELLING UNIT AS 600. SO THAT'S THE CHANGE. SO EVERYTHING WOULD LINE UP WITH OUR CURRENT CODE. WELL, I THOUGHT IT WAS THE DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE DEFINITION AND THE TEXT IS WHAT YEAH. SO THE DEFINITION, THE DWELLING UNIT ONE WAS 501 6, 600. YEAH. AND I THINK YOU JUST PICKED THE 600 AS OPPOSED TO THE 500. WELL, THE REST OF 'EM IN THE, WHEN WE DO CONVERSIONS FROM EXISTING STRUCTURES [00:05:01] MM-HMM . IN OTHER PART OF THE DISTRICTS OF CODE, THE DWELLING UNIT HAS TO BE 600. OKAY. JUST THE NUMBERS. AS LONG AS THE NUMBERS HANGER HAT ON THIS, BECAUSE WE'RE BEING HUNG ON THE HAT OF IT WAS COMMON USED NUMBER IN OTHER DISTRICTS. RIGHT. SO WE HAVE SOMETHING HANGING ON. SO ALL OF OUR DWELLING UNITS, FOR EXAMPLE, WOULD BE 600 WHERE IT WOULD BE, UM, AN INTERNAL ONE WOULD NEED TO BE AT LEAST 600. YOUR EXTERNAL ONE WOULD NEED TO BE 600 ALSO. FAIR ENOUGH. FAIR ENOUGH. SO THAT'S WHERE THAT YEAH, THAT'S WHERE IT CAME FROM. OKAY. OH, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD. I WAS JUST GONNA SAY THE, THE OTHER CHANGE IT WAS IN HERE FOR THE TEXT, I KNOW THAT CONFU, THE WORDING CONFUSED 'EM ENDLESSLY IN DISCUSSION WHEN THEY WERE GOING THROUGH ABOUT THE MINIMUM, BUT IT PROTECTED THE MINIMUM AMOUNT AS WELL AS THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT THEY OBJECTED TO THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT. O OKAY. THE MINIMUM AMOUNT WAS INTENDED FOR THE WORDING TO KEEP PEOPLE PUTTING SOMETHING IN THE CLOSET. RIGHT. BUT IF, BUT, UM, THERE I CAN, I CAN GO AHEAD AND SQUINT SEE THAT AS WELL, BECAUSE IT HAS TO HAVE A KITCHEN, HAS TO HAVE A BEDROOM, HAS TO HAVE AN EXTERNAL ENTRY. IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO PUT SOMEBODY IN A CLOSET WITH ALL THOSE FEATURES AND STUFF IN IT. RIGHT. SO GOING BY REMOVING THE MINIMUM PROTECTION, I DON'T THINK IS AN ISSUE EITHER, IS WHAT I'M SAYING. THAT THAT'S ALL. I, I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH THE CHANGES IN MAKING. AND IF THE 600 IS A STANDARD ON THERE, I IT WOULD BE A SMALL PERCENTAGE THAT WOULD NOW BE EXCLUDED. IF IT WAS 500 OR 600. WOULD YOU FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE HERE IF IN C IT SAID, YOU KNOW, SHAUNA EXTEND BEYOND THIS FOOTPRINT AND MUST BE AT LEAST 600, AT MINIMUM 600 SQUARE FEET. SO THEN HAVE THAT CLARITY? I, I DON'T, WHEN YOU START GETTING INTO WHAT'S THE MIDDLE, LIKE APARTMENT RIGHT NOW, WE CAN GO DOWN TO LIKE 250 SQUARE FEET, BUT THEN APARTMENTS IS ONLY AN APARTMENT BUILDING. YEAH. BUT, BUT I'M JUST DOING A PLATE. THIS IS ANOTHER, THIS IS A ROOM WITHIN AN EXISTING STRUCTURE AS OPPOSED TO A SEPARATE ONE. IF THEY CAN GO DOWN TO TWO 50 HERE, WE'D HAVE A HARD TIME ARGUING 600 THERE. AND YOU'RE ALSO SAYING THAT A DWELLING UNIT IS DEFINED AS AT LEAST 600 SQUARE FEET. AN EXTERNAL, A A DWELLING UNIT OVERALL HAS THE DEFINITION OF AT LEAST 600 WITHIN HERE. THE REASON WHY UNDER D AS LONG AS I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY THAT WE HAVE ADUS BEING LISTED AS A MINIMUM 600 IS SO THAT THAT MATCHES WITH OUR OTHER DEFINITION OF REGULAR DWELLING UNITS. SO, UM, I GUESS MAYBE I'M, YOU KNOW, UH, NOT, NOT UNDERSTANDING. NO, NO, I SEE YOUR POINT. AND, AND THAT'S, IT'S KIND OF A PREFERENCE TYPE THING IN THIS, THIS REGARD. UM, BUT THIS IS LANGUAGE THE TOWN COUNCIL GAVE US IN YELLOW, RIGHT? YES. YEAH. THIS IS WHAT THEIR PREFERENCE IS. RECOMMENDATION IS MM-HMM . I, I DON'T THINK THEY WANTED US TO PUT A, THEY WERE OBJECTING TO LIMITS BEING PUT ON IT AT ALL. MM-HMM . ON THAT. UM, BUT I DO SEE YOUR SIX, 600 ON THE OTHER, YOU COULD IMPOSE IT HERE IF THEY'RE IN THEIR, UM, THE, IN THEIR DISCUSSIONS WHEN THEY WERE CONFUSED ABOUT OR NOT AGREEING WITH THE MAXIMUM. THAT'S WHERE I'M THINKING AT LEAST, YOU KNOW, HAVING A MINIMUM PROTECTION, MAYBE THAT WOULD BE LESS OF, OF A BLOCK. I MEAN, IF, IF WE THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA BE WORTHWHILE, I GUESS, WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE THEN APPLYING FOR A DU PERMITS AND THEN REBUILDING THAT, CONVERTING THEIR BASEMENT, WHAT HAVE YOU, IF IT IS SOMETHING LESS THAN 600 SQUARE FEET, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD STILL BE ALLOWING FOR AN INTERNAL OR IS THAT SOMETHING YOU SAY? NO, NO. WELL, IN UNIT HAS TO BE 600. OKAY. AND THAT CASE, DO WE WANT THAT CLARIFICATION JUST ALREADY IN THIS LINE TO MAKE IT LIKE SIMPLER? OR DOES THAT MATTER? INTERNAL LOAD DOESN'T MATTER. I MEAN, WELL, THE DEFINITION UNDER DWELLING UNITS IS ONE ROOM OR ROOMS CONNECTED TOGETHER, CONSTITUTING A SEPARATE INDEPENDENT HOUSEKEEPING ESTABLISHMENT FOR OWNER OCCUPANCY RENTAL OR LEASE ON A WEEKLY BASIS, MONTHLY OR LONGER BASIS. AND PHYSICALLY SEPARATED FROM OTHER ROOMS OR DWELLING UNITS, WHICH MAY BE IN THE SAME STRUCTURE AND CONTAINING INDEPENDENT COOKING AND SLEEPING FACILITIES AND CONTAINING NOT LESS THAN 600 SQUARE FOOT OF RESIDENTIAL FLOOR AREAS. SO THAT'S OUR DEFINITION. YEAH. WE IT'S ALREADY THERE. AFFECTS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YEAH. SO WE, THIS JUST ANOTHER PART OF THE DEFINITION. SO IN HERE WOULD JUST BE REDUNDANT OR IF YOU WERE TO MENTION AGAIN, I MEAN WE'RE MENTIONING IT WITH THE DETACHED AND SO I'M JUST, IT, IT, IT MAY NOT MATTER. IT MAY BE, YOU KNOW, SPLITTING HAIRS, BUT NO, JUST WONDERING. IT WOULD BE WORTH TO HAVE IN FOR CLARITY FOR PEOPLE, BUT IF WE DON'T THINK IT'S WORTH IT, THEN I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO AS IT WERE. SO WE DEFINE DWELLING UNIT IN OUR DEFINITION AS HAVING 600 A MINIMUM, NOT LESS THAN A DWELLING UNIT. MM-HMM . SO THOSE COULD BE A DWELLING UNIT. YOU COULD LIKE HAVE A TWO FAMILY DWELLING. YEAH, SURE. RIGHT. WE, WE DO IN THE R TWO. SO THAT, THAT AREA HAS TO BE 600. WHAT WORDING COULD [00:10:01] WE PUT TO ADD TO THAT, TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IN HERE? MAYBE WITHOUT PUTTING THE NUMBER TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE SPECIFICATION IN THE OTHER PLACE AS PER STATED IN, AS PER THE DEFINITION. AS PER THE DEFINITION OF DWELLING UNIT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. WHY DO WE NEED TO DO THAT? WOULDN'T THAT BE A CI MEAN WE, WE, I GUESS IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADD THAT TO THE C WE COULD, UH, WHEN WE GET TO THE END OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, THEN UH, WE COULD SAY, UH, AND LET'S SEE, AND CONTAINING NOT LESS THAN 600 SQUARE FOOT OF RESIDENTIAL FLOOR AREA, THAT, THAT, THAT WAY WE SOLVE IT, IT MAKES, IT MAKES IT CLEAR AND IT MATCHES IT. IT'S DOUBLE, IT IS KIND OF REDUNDANT, BUT KIND OF NOT IF, IF, IF SOMEONE DOESN'T LOOK, IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T HURT TO ADD IT. I WOULD THINK IT, SO SHOW US, TELL US EXACTLY WHAT LINE AND IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE C THE ONE TOWARDS THE TOP AND IT TOWARDS, AT THE END OF THE SENTENCE, JUST ADDING AND MUST BE A MINIMUM OF 600 SQUARE FEET OR TO THAT EFFECT. AND CONTAINING NOT LESS THAN 600 SQUARE FOOT A RESIDENTIAL FLOOR AREA. THAT'S OUT OF OUR OTHER DEFINITION. YEAH. JUST TAKE THAT PIECE AND PUT IT IN THERE IF THAT'S OKAY. SO IT WOULDN'T BE, THE WORDING'S GONNA BE THE SAME. I THINK THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO TRY TO DEFEND SOMETHING ALL NOT LESS THAN 600 SQUARE FEET OF RESIDENTIAL FLOOR, AREA OF RESIDENTIAL. THE BATHROOM COUNT IS RESIDENTIAL FLOOR AREA. YES. OKAY. SO WE'LL JUST KEEP IT WITH WHAT THE, OUR CURRENT DEFINITION HAS. YEAH. OKAY. SOUNDS GOOD. WE APPRECIATE THAT. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS NOISE? THEN THE NEXT STEP ON THIS IS WHAT, BACK YOU BACK TO BACK TO 10 COUNSEL? NO, WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER, HAVE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING. PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. SMILE AT EACH OTHER AND SEE HOW, HOW SHORT THE MEETING CAN BE. AND IT IS NOW 10 OR 12 MINUTES INTO OUR MEETING. AND THE OTHER BUSINESS WE HAVE IS REVIEW OF AGRICULTURAL AND RESIDENTIAL ROOMS. YES. WHICH WILL TAKE A CONSIDERABLE TIME. DO WE HAVE A STAFF REPORT ON THIS? UM, WE'VE MADE A, OR I MADE A CHART. UM, UH OH, JUST GO BACK JUST FOR A SECOND. YEAH. BE STRAIGHT OUT HISTORIC DISTRICT. I WANTED TO ASK HOW THAT ADUS PLAYING INTO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, HOW NOW THAT THEY WAS ACCEPTED THAT, BUT THEY MODIFIED IT WITH SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR, UM, ADDING ONTO BLANK LOTS AND SO ON. STILL R ONE. WHAT WAS THE QUESTION? UH, THEY APPROVED THE HISTORIC DISTRICT CHANGE. OKAY. AND THE TOWN COUNCIL MODIFIED IT A BIT TO MAKE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR LIKE A HOUSE BURNT DOWN OR THERE WAS A VACANT LOCK IN THE REBUILDING TO BRING IT BACK WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. MM-HMM . SO HOW DOES A DU FIT INTO THAT NOW GIVEN THAT CHANGE? WHAT, UH, WHAT, WHAT WOULD MEAN, WHAT'S THE CURRENT ? R ONE? IT'S CURRENTLY R THREE, ISN'T IT? IN THE, UM, RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT. OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. THEN, THEN ADUS WOULD BE PERMITTED BY WRIGHT. OKAY. IN THE R THREE. THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE LISTED. I DIDN'T RESTRICT THEM. NO. THAT, THAT WAS MY INTERPRETATION OF I DIDN'T WANNA SAY THAT. I WANTED TO HEAR THAT YOU, I MEAN, IT, IT'S LISTED. WE WE'RE WE'RE INCLUDING THAT IN THE BY WRIGHT IN THE R THREE. SO NOPE. AND TOWN COUNCIL HAD ASKED ABOUT THAT AT THEIR MEETING, AT THEIR WORKING GROUP AND, AND NO ONE HAD AN ANSWER AT THAT TIME. SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WAS AN ANSWER FOR THAT. THAT'S HOW I WOULD INTERPRET IT. I MEAN, YEAH. NOW THE EXTERNAL STRUCTURE, THE EXTERNAL S WILL BE, THAT'S FOR INTERNAL BUT EXTERNAL. WELL THE A D YOU WANT ME TO DO IT NOW PERMITTED BY, RIGHT, RIGHT. THOSE ARE PERMITTED BY, RIGHT. YEAH. YEAH. NOW THE EXTERNAL WOULD BE, THE EXTERNAL WOULD STILL BE THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT. 'CAUSE IT'D BE A NEW BUILDING BEING BUILT BECAUSE THEY'RE REQUIRING TO GO THROUGH ALL THE ARCHITECTURE STUFF. DISTRICT, I'M JUST STATING THIS, ASSUMING THIS IS THE CASE. MM-HMM . OKAY. THAT, THAT, THAT'S ALL. I JUST WANT TO MENTION IT BECAUSE IT CAME CONFUSION ON THAT. SO AGAIN. OKAY. OKAY. AND I'LL SHUT UP NOW. I'M SORRY. MOVE ON. CHARLES, CAN YOU GET INTO THE EMAIL HAD SAID, EMAILED THE CONFERENCE ROOM, THE CHART. SO IT WOULD IN THEORY BE EASIER TO PULL THEM UP THE MATRIX, THE CHART, UM, [00:15:01] MATRIX, THE CHART THAT I MADE REAL QUICK. OKAY. UM, I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU HAD MADE THE CHARTS THE MATRIX. I DID, I UPDATED IT WITH ALL THE LOT SIZES AND, OKAY. CAN YOU EMAIL THAT TO IF, WHICH ONE DO YOU WANT? IF THERESA EMAILS YOU, CAN YOU PULL IT UP? YEAH. SHOULD SHE EMAIL IT TO EAST CONFERENCE? EAST CONFERENCE? OKAY. IF YOU EMAIL IT TO EAST CONFERENCE, IS IT ROOM? IT IT'S JUST EAST CONFERENCE@FRONTROYALVA.COM. YEAH. IT SHOULD SHOW UP IF YOU START TYPING IT AT YEAH. EAST. YEAH, EAST CONFERENCE@FRONTROWVA.COM. DOT COM. MM-HMM . OKAY. AND I'M SURE THERE'LL STILL BE CHANGES HERE. AND DON'T REFRESH IF IT ASKS YOU, I WANNA ENABLE EDITING. I WAS WAITING ON THE GO. I WASN'T . AND YOU CAN, BUT IT DON'T REFRESH ANYTHING. OH. UM, I THINK IF YOU REDUCE, UH, TO ABOUT MAYBE 60%, CAN WE CONTROL IT FROM HERE? YEAH. YOU MAY NEED A, YOU'LL HAVE TO PUT IT ON A PIECE OF CARDBOARD OR A BOOK. GLASS TABLE PROBLEMS. I, SO JUST A COUPLE OF CHANGES JUST SO YOU KNOW, IS, UM, IN THE ORIGINAL VERSION, UH, LAUREN HAD LIKE RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL, SHE HADN'T SPLIT, LIKE SHE JUST SPLIT IT ACROSS THE ROW. SO YOU WOULD SCROLL DOWN, BUT WITH THAT FILTERING YOU CAN'T FILTER, IT'S A BLANK ROW. SO ON IN COLUMN B WHERE YOU SAY IT SAYS USES MISCELLANEOUS RIGHT NOW IT SAYS IN COLUMN B, DO YOU SEE THAT? MM-HMM . I, THAT'S MY WAY OF ACCOMMODATING IT. I GOT RID OF THOSE ROW THOSE ROWS, THOSE SECTION BREAKS AND PUT THE USES IN COLUMN B. SO YOU'LL SEE RESIDENTIAL, INDUSTRIAL, ORGANIZATIONAL, UM, SO YOU CAN FILTER UNDER RIGHT AT THE DOWN ARROW NEXT TO USES. THE OTHER ONE THAT YOU'LL SEE THERE NOW TOO IS LS, WHICH IS THE LOCK STANDARDS. SO IF YOU DESELECT ALL THOSE AND JUST SELECT LS, WHAT I HAVE IS I'VE TAKEN ALL OF THE DETAIL OFF OF THE LOT STANDARDS TAB AND ADDED IT TO THIS PAGE. OKAY. SO NOW YOU'LL BE ABLE TO FILTER JUST ON LOT STANDARD AND SEE ALL OF IT, KIND OF LIKE WHAT YOU SEE ON THE LOT STANDARDS PAGE, BUT IT'S ALL NOW HERE. AND ALSO, JUST AS A REMINDER, COLUMN A, UH, INDICATES WHETHER OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO CALL COLUMN C. THERE'S NO COLUMN HEADER THERE. OKAY. UH, BUT WHETHER OR NOT IT IS IN OUR CURRENT ARTICLE 11 DEFINITIONS, THOSE USES, THOSE ARE THE USES. OKAY. SO THEN I, THEN I NEED TO CHANGE THE HEAD OF HER COLUMN B. YEAH. TO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WOULD CALL THAT. THAT'S JUST LIKE A CLASSIFICATION. OKAY. COMMERCIAL. OKAY. UH, WHAT IF WE CHANGE, WHAT IF WE CHANGE USES JUST TO CLASS? OKAY. AND THEN PUT USES AS THE HEAD ON COLUMN C. OKAY. BUT THEN THAT'LL TELL, TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT THE USE IS IN OUR CURRENT, CURRENT ARTICLE 11 DEFINITIONS. AND IF IT IS, I INCLUDED IT IN COLUMN D. UM, SO WHATEVER'S BLANK IN COLUMN D TECHNICALLY HAS THE DEFINITION FOR IT. SO I'M GONNA HAND THIS TO YOU. [00:20:01] IS THERE A WAY YOU CAN, FOR THE AG, GET TO GET IT TO SHOW US WHAT JUST WAS PERMITTED MM-HMM . IN THIS CATEGORY. ALL YOU ALL, IT'S SUPER EASY. ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS YOU NEED TO GO JUST UP HERE AND WE'RE GONNA JUST, OH, CAN YOU TYPE IN P JUST, OH, YOU KNOW WHAT? DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. I'LL JUST SCROLL WE GO. SO JUST PERMITTED. CORRECT. SO PERMITTED BY AND THEN SPECIAL USE. UH, SO P AND S. S. YEAH. ALRIGHT. OH GOOD. OKAY. SO THAT NOW IS SHOWING ALL OF THAT. SO THAT GIVES US THE USES. YEP. PERFECT. YOU WANT ME TO SIT NEXT? THE S STANDS FOR SPECIAL USE. SPECIAL USE PERMIT. AND THEN B IS WHAT'S PERMITTED BY, RIGHT. AND IT'S HERE, I'M GONNA MAKE THIS A LITTLE BIT, WE'RE JUST GONNA LOOK AT A ONE RIGHT NOW. MM-HMM. SO I'M GONNA JUST MAKE THIS A LITTLE BIT WIDER. OH, THAT MIGHT BE NICE. YEAH, IT WORKS. UH, THIS IS GONNA MESS EVERYTHING UP. JUST BRIEFLY, JUST MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT SURE. WE ARE JUST LOOKING AT, SO I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA ACTUALLY MAKE THIS THIS BIGGER. HOW DOES THAT LOOK? THAT'S RIGHT. MM-HMM . BECAUSE THAT'S FINE, RIGHT? YEP. IS THIS BIG ENOUGH? YOU WANT ME TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIGGER? YEAH, I CAN READ IT. YEAH, WE CAN. IS THAT GOOD? OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO WE'LL START KIND OF AT THE TOP AND THEN LIKE WITH THE STATEMENT OF INTENT AND IF YOU, UM, AND WE'LL GO THROUGH AND THEN WHEN WE GET TO THE USES, ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE GONNA JUST MAKE NOTE OF IS WHAT DO WE STILL NEED TO PROVIDE DEFINITION FOUR. AND THEN IF EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THE LISTING USES THAT ARE IN HERE. AND THEN IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT YOU THINK YOU NEED TO ADD OR TAKE OUT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY CONCERNS, QUESTIONS ABOUT THE STATEMENT OF INTENT FOR A ONE? SO THIS DISTRICT IS COMPOSED OF LARGE CONTIGUOUS PARCELS OF AT LEAST 10 ACRES IN SIZES USED FOR AGRICULTURAL PURSUITS AND OTHER USES INVOLVING RESERVATION OF OPEN SPACES, INCLUDING PARKS AND FOREST AREAS. UM, THE STANDARD SET FORTH ARE DESIGNED TO PROMOTE, PROTECT OPEN SPACES OF AGRICULTURAL ENFORCEMENT AREAS. DEVELOPMENT IS TO BE DISCOURAGED. THE ONLY PERMITTED STRUCTURE SHALL BE THOSE WHICH ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO AGRICULTURAL AND OPEN SPACE. WHAT WOULD APPLY IF THERE WAS AN OLD FARM MAN AND IT AND SOMEBODY PUT A SCHOOL ON IT? IS THAT STILL AGRICULTURAL? WELL, I BELIEVE SCHOOLS ARE A PERMITTED USE AND THEN THEY SELL OFF SOME OF THE LAND. OR DO THEY HAVE TO KEEP AT LEAST 10 ACRES? SO THE MINIMUM DISTRICT SIZE IS 10 ACRES. SO MINIMUM PARCEL SIZE IS GONNA BE 10 ACRES. SO, SO YOU COULD POTENTIALLY SUBDIVIDE OFF, BUT IT'S GOTTA BE, YOU'D HAVE TO CREATE AT LEAST 10 ACRES AND MAKE REMAIN 10 ACRES. IT'D HAVE TO, IT'D HAVE TO BE 10 ACRES. YEAH. BUT JUST ASK OTHER COUNTIES, AGAIN, OTHER COUNTIES DO A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. SMALLER SIZES. IS THAT, ARE WE WANNA STAY AT 10 ACRES THAT WORK? TELL US THE POINT, THE INTENTIONS OF ACRE AND A HALF AND TON COUNTY TAKING IT OUT BACK. I THINK IT DEPENDS ON YOUR INTENTION, RIGHT? SO IF YOU'RE WANTING TO DIS DEVELOP, THERE'S NOT, OR THERE'S NOT A LOT OF SPACE LEFT IN COUNTY, THERE'S CERTAINLY NOT ENOUGH. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M ASKING. THEY HAVE TO GET BATTERIES FROM THE OH, LIKE YOU CAN'T OH, I HAPPEN TO HAVE, AND THEN, YOU KNOW WHAT THE INTENT DOESN'T STATE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DEFINE AGRICULTURAL PURSUIT IN 1 35 30. SO THAT'S THE TILLING OF SOIL RAISING CROPS, HORTICULTURE, AQUACULTURE, HYDROPONIC FORESTRY, GARDENING, AGRICULTURE, LIVESTOCK, FILE KEEPING, BREEDING, FARM WINES, ROADSIDE SAND, AND TENANT HOUSES. SO THE LIKE BAKED INTO THIS INTENT IS THAT THIS IS STRICTLY FOR FARMING. YEAH, FAIR ENOUGH. [00:25:01] I WAS JUST TRYING TO DO AN ASSESSMENT AGAINST WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING THIS. DO YOU, I MEAN, WOULD THE WILL BE TO LOWER THAT ? WELL, IT COMES TO, LIKE YOU SAID, WHAT'S THE INTENT? WHAT DOES THE, AND IT'S KIND OF THE CHARACTER OF THE COUNTY. WHAT, HOW DOES THE COUNTY FEEL ABOUT GOING? THEY WANNA MAINTAIN THAT 10 ACRE BASICALLY DISCOURAGE DEVELOPMENT. WHAT DID THE COUNTY SAY? WHAT THE TOWN, I SAID COUNTY I, WHAT IS THE TOWN? NOT COUNTY. I'M SORRY, USE THE WRONG DEPENDING BUDGET SMACK ANYWAY . BECAUSE THERE ISN'T, WELL, AND THE THING IS TOO, TO PRESERVE LAND IN, IN WARREN COUNTY, RIGHT. THE INTENTION SHOULD BE TO FOCUS IN THE TOWN WHERE THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS. THAT'S WHAT THE PLANNING DICTATES. YEAH. AND SO, SO THE SMALLER LOTS WOULD TEND TO SUPPORT THAT. THAT THAT'S A, JUST LOOKING, TRYING TO, AGAIN, DOING KIND OF ANALYSIS OF WHAT THE INTENT FOR IS THAT OUR AGRICULTURAL, YOU KNOW, A TOWN THAT'S ONLY 10 SQUARE MILES TO BEGIN WITH, DO, DO WE WANT TO ENCOURAGE MORE DEVELOPMENT OR WE REALLY WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY. I MEAN, I WOULD THINK THAT IT WOULD BE VALUABLE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CHARACTER OF THE TOWN IS PART OF THE CHARACTER OF THE COUNTY AS WELL. THERE BEING AREAS THERE WHERE REQUIRED, WHERE IT'S REQUIRED 10 ACRES IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I, I WOULD, THE, THE PRESERVATION OF THAT OPEN SPACE IS STILL CAN BE KEY IN CERTAIN AREAS. AND I THINK SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD WANT TO VALUE AND MAINTAIN. UH, THERE AREN'T THAT MANY AREAS THAT ARE A ONE AROUND HERE. MM-HMM . UM, AND YOU KNOW, WITH THE WAY THE ZONING DISTRICT IS, UH, DISTRICTS ARE SET UP, UM, IT DOES FOCUS MORE THE DEVELOPMENT TOWARDS THE CENTRAL AREA AND THEN SORT OF BRANCHES OUT A LITTLE BIT AS, AS GENERALLY IT SHOULD WITH WHERE A ONE IS. I THINK KEEPING IT THAT WAY IS KEY. AND UH, ONE GOOD EXAMPLE IS RIGHT UP NEAR THE COUNTY LINE ON THE NORTHERN EDGE. UM, AND THE ONLY REAL, UH, DEVELOPMENT ACCESS TO THAT IS GOING ACROSS THE, THE RAILROAD TRACKS. SO THAT EVEN DEVELOPING THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE ALREADY POSES A WHOLE SLEW OF HURDLES. AND I THINK PRESERVING THAT ASDA, THAT AGRICULTURAL OPEN SPACE IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO. A ROAD IS PUT END UP THERE. THE INDUSTRIALS ARE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE AND DOESN'T TOUCH A ONE AT ALL. THERE'S A SEPARATION, UH, WITH THE DIFFERENT ZONING. UH, YEAH. SO THE MAIN, THAT LARGE A ONE PARCEL IS ANNEXED IN. SO WE'VE GOT A I THAT'S, OH, THERE WAS A SETTLEMENT, RIGHT? SO, UM, NOW YOU WOULD HAVE TO TAKE THAT BACK TO THE COURT. UM, SO THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY INTENDED TO SAY AGRICULTURAL. YEAH. I DON'T FORESEE THAT BEING BE DEALT ANYTIME SOON. IT WAS JUST A, AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE A OPINION ON IT. AND TYPICALLY, LIKE WHEN ALL THAT SAYS IT SOUNDS UNDER BAG, WHICH THEN FORCES A REZONING TO FIGURE OUT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE WILL PROBABLY, WILL PROBABLY BE REZONED. YEAH. THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE. BUT, UM, IN TOWN LEMME MAKE IT EASIER, BUT YOU KNOW, THERE'S SO FEW AREAS THAT ARE A ONE. IF, IF THE IDEA IS THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE REZONED AT SOME POINT ANYWAY, THEN CHANGING, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY REASON TO CHANGE. AND THERE'S NOTHING IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT, THAT I'M AWARE OF THAT WOULD THAT DRIVING DEVELOPMENT THERE. NOT UNLESS WE GET ANOTHER TRAFFIC CONNECTOR. YEAH. TO RIGHT? I THINK EVERYTHING'S HINGING ON THAT EAST WEST CONNECTOR. EAST WEST. THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING. EVERYTHING CHANGES ON THAT. UM, BUT THAT IF THAT EAST WEST CONNECTOR WAS THERE, THEN THIS CONVERSATION MIGHT HAPPEN AGAIN. YEAH. IT WOULD LIKELY BE A REZONING CONVERSATION BASED ON A DEVELOPER WANTING TO DEVELOP YEP. BE A DIFFERENT THING ENTIRELY. OKAY. OKAY. SO WE'RE HAPPY WITH THIS. WE'RE HAPPY. I JUST, AGAIN, I WAS JUST TRYING TO DO AN ANALYSIS OF WHAT, WHAT'S GOING ON. OKAY. SO FOR THE RESIDENTIAL, IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH IT BEING MANUFACTURED? HOMES BEING PERMITTED AND THEN THE SINGLE FAMILY WELLING MANUFACTURED HOMES MEAN TRAILER? UM, LEMME SEE OUR DEFINITION BECAUSE I THINK THE STATE CODE REQUIRES THAT WE HAVE PROVISIONS FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND THEN UNDER THAT, I THINK IT'S LIKE THE MANUFACTURER, LIKE MOBILE HOMES. RIGHT? WE HAVE A CHOICE ON THAT ONE. WELL, AND IN AGRICULTURE WE CAN'T NOT LET PEOPLE HAVE THOSE BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S HOW THEY MOVE INTO THE LAND. HAVE TO HAVE THAT [00:30:03] ABLE TO HAVE THEIR KIDS MM-HMM. MANUFACTURED, BUILDING A BUILDING THAT IS MANUFACTURED TYPICALLY IN A FACTORY AND BUILT IN ACCORDANCE WITH, UM, FARM HOUSING OR URBAN DEVELOPMENT MODULAR AND PREFABRICATED BUILDING MANUFACTURE PERMIT SIX NINE B FOUR. OH, YOU THAT SIX FOUR? YEAH. I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS, I I THOUGHT I'D SEEN NEXT ELSEWHERE. IS THAT UNDER A, UH, THAT IS FOR FARMER'S MARKET. FARMERS AND FLEA MARKET SPECIFICALLY. OKAY. OKAY. OKAY. THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I RUNNING ACROSS. I JUST DOING A QUICK OKAY. JUST, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT THE REFLECTION IS SO HERE, THE DARK GREEN, UH, THE A ONE IS, YEAH, SO THAT'S THE ONLY A ONE I THINK. OH, THEN THE R, THE VFW. RIGHT. VFW THERE AND A COUPLE. THEY'RE ACROSS THE RIVER, BUT PRIMARILY ALL OF IT'S HERE. WHAT ABOUT THE VINEYARD ABOVE THE FLEA MARKET? WHAT'S THAT? THAT'S, IT DOESN'T APPEAR HERE, BUT R ONE, RIGHT? ACTUALLY NOT MUST BE R ONE. YEAH, IT'S R ONE. IT IS ZONED R ONE, ZONED R ONE. SO IT'S NOT EVEN AGRICULTURE THERE. OKAY. RIGHT. SO THEN WE, WE HAVE A NEW DEFINITION FOR MANUFACTURED HOME, WHICH WOULD BE PERMITTED. UM, A STRUCTURE TRANSPORTABLE IN ONE OR MORE SECTIONS, WHICH IS BUILT ON A PERMANENT CHASSIS AND DESIGNED FOR USE WITH OR WITHOUT A PERMANENT FOUNDATION WHEN CONNECTED TO THE REQUIRED UTILITIES FOR FLOODPLAIN MANAGEMENT PURPOSES. THE TERM MANUFACTURED HOME ALSO INCLUDES PARK TRAILERS, TRAVEL TRAILERS, AND OTHER SIMILAR VEHICLES PLACED ON SITE FOR GREATER THAN 180 CONSECUTIVE DAYS. SO THAT WOULD BE PERMITTED IN THIS JUST FOR THIS ZONE. SO, AND THEN THERE'S NO COMMERCIAL, THERE'S NO INDUSTRIAL. RIGHT. AND THEN WE JUST HAVE, UM, ACCESSORY USAGE STRUCTURES AND BUILDINGS, TENANT HOUSING, CEMETERIES, HOME OCCUPATIONS, OPEN SPACE, PUBLIC FACILITIES, PUBLIC PARKS, PLAYGROUNDS, UTILITIES AND SIGNS, SPECIAL CHILDCARE SERVICES. UM, AND THOSE ARE THE BY, RIGHT. THEN WHEN WE GET TO THIS 6.1 0.3, THE SPECIAL USE PERMITS, UM, WE HAVE THE TENANT HOUSING FOR AGRICULTURAL USE WOULD BE AN SEP. AND THEN WE HAVE, UM, UNDER COMMERCIAL WE HAVE COMMERCIAL OUTDOOR RECREATION. SO ATHLETIC AND PARK FACILITIES, AMPHITHEATERS STADIUMS, BOTANICAL GARDENS, CAMPGROUNDS AND SEASONAL RECREATION FACILITIES DOING FARMER'S MARKETS AND HOSPITALS. UM, UH, FOR TENANT HOUSING FOR AGRI AND AGRICULTURAL DEFINITION USE. MM-HMM . THAT WAS ESPECIALLY DO WE HAVE A, A SPECIFIC DEFINITION. SO WE NEED TO FIND ONE FOR THAT. OKAY. WHAT ELSE? IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE'RE MISSING? DEFINITIONS FOR MS. UM, I BELIEVE YES. CAMP BROWN. CAMP BROWN. OKAY. AND WE HAD THAT USE LISTED MM-HMM . RIGHT. SO WE DIDN'T DEFINE COMMERCIAL OUTDOOR RECREATION. RIGHT, THAT'S WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT. YEAH. LIKE EACH OF THOSE COMPONENTS. WHAT'S A AND PARK FACILITY? WHAT'S THE AMPHITHEATER? EACH ONE, EACH ONE OF THOSE BE BE DEFINITIONS FOR EACH SEPARATE DEFINITION. OKAY. I WOULD THINK YES, THAT WOULD BE BECAUSE WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE ALLOWING THAT USE. SO TO ME YOU NEED TO DEFINE TO FIND THE USE THAT YOU'RE ALLOWING. OKAY. I KNOW WHAT MY HOMEWORK IS FOR THE NEXT WORK SESSION, I WILL BRING YOU DEFINITIONS. UM, OKAY. AND SO THEN BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT, WE ALSO ALLOW CHURCHES IN SCHOOLS IN THAT HIGH DISTRICT. UM, OKAY. SO THEN WE GET INTO MISCELLANEOUS AND THEN WE'VE GOT COMMUNICATION TOWERS. UM, [00:35:05] LET'S SEE. AND I BELIEVE, UM, I THINK THIS BI THINK HIS NEW TEXT, I DUNNO IF THAT'S CURRENT. IS IT B IS THERE? YES. OKAY. IT'S ALL RIGHT. SO FROM MOTHERHOOD STATEMENT. YEAH. . ALRIGHT. ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS ON THESE SECTIONS SO FAR? NO. ALRIGHT. UM, AREA AND FRONTAGE. SO MINIMUM LOT SIZE OF 10 ACRES, MINIMUM PUBLIC STREET FRONTAGE 150 FEET, WHICH IF YOU'VE GOT A 10 ACRE LOT, YOU SHOULD BE ONLY NEED THAT. BUT YOU NEED TO, AND THE SECOND SENTENCE NEEDS CORRECTED. APPLICATION FOR SPECIAL DEPARTMENT, A SPECIAL USE, YOU WOULDN'T USE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO WAIVE THE MINIMUM PUBLIC REPR WE'VE BEEN USING, DOING THE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, BUT THEN IN OUR SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, LIKE THAT ONE, SOME SOME REASON SEPARATE, WE DO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS AND FOR 1 48 BUT SPECIAL USE PERMITS AND 1 7 5, BUT ONE THE SAME SPECIAL EXCEPTION. YEAH. BUT THEY'RE USED INTERCHANGEABLY. I SAY, BUT THAT'S PROBABLY A LEGAL QUESTION NUMBER. YEAH, THERE IS, IT IS MENTIONED. UM, I GUESS WE NEED TO CHECK ON THAT. ALRIGHT, SO WE'LL CHECK ON THAT. I'M MEAN CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT IN A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. MM-HMM . THAT WOULD SEEM APPROPRIATE TO A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. IT SAME AS THE SPECIAL, I GUESS WE NEED TO LOOK ON THE, THE LEGAL PART. I MEAN, TWO DIFFERENT THINGS WE'D HAVE TO LOOK IN. WE HAVE TWO DIFFERENT, ESPECIALLY ACCEPT SOMETHING YOU JUST CAN GRANT INTERNALLY WITHOUT HAVING TO GO BACK THROUGH A PERMIT. RIGHT. BUT WE'D HAVE TO LOOK ON THE OUT OF STATE TERMINATION. WE NEED A FORMAL LANGUAGE FROM THE STATE. SO I THINK I CAN ADDRESS THAT IN AN EMAIL TOO, TO YOU GUYS. MAKE THAT CHANGE. OKAY. UM, SETBACKS STRUCTURE SHALL BE LOCATED 100 FEET FROM ANY PUBLIC STREET. YEAH. THAT, THAT IN A LOT OF OTHER PLACES ON THE SETBACK. IS THAT THE WAY WE WANT TO KEEP IT WITH, IT'S NOT LEFT OVER FROM THE DAYS GONE BY OR ANYTHING? YEAH, I MEAN I'M THAT'S FINE. KEEPING THESE SETBACKS. YEAH. THEY'RE EVERY, ALL OVER THE PLACE. 50 FEET, 75 FEET DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU GO. JUST AGAIN ZEL, BUT, OKAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. AND THEN THE YARDS, THE MINIMUM YARD SIDE YARDS BE 50 FEET. I DON'T HAVE ANY REAR YARDS. 50 FEET FROM ANY PROPERTY LINE. YOU WISH CHOICE AGAIN? YEAH. DOES ANYBODY OBJECT TO THESE ? NO. ALRIGHT. AND THEN LOT COVERAGE. MAXIMUM TOTAL COVERAGE FOR ALL STRUCTURE SHALL NOT EXCEED 15% OF THE AREA. AND THEN THE TOTAL IMPERVIOUS COVERAGE SHOULD BE LIMITED TO 30%. I TOTAL COVERAGE NOT ALLOWING WATER TO DEPEND ON WHATEVER THE STRUCTURE WOULD BE. SO THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE STRUCTURE. PARKING IS THE S PART. ITS PAVEMENT. THE WHOLE THING. THE WHOLE THING. BASKETBALL COURT. YEAH. I MEAN SEE 15. YEAH. THIS COKE, 10 ACRES. SO WE'RE TALKING, WE WOULD BE TALKING MORE THAN 50%. [00:40:01] WE'D BE HAVING WHOA. YEAH. THE 10 ACRE PARCEL. LET'S EIGHT NOT A THOUSAND. SO IT CAN'T, THE COVERAGE FOR ALL THE STRUCTURES CAN'T EXCEED 65,000 SQUARE FEET. IF YOU'VE GOT A 10 ACRE, 435,000 HUNDRED WOULD BE 10 ACRES. BUT SQUARE FOOTAGE, 10 ACRES. I'M HOMESCHOOLED. THESE ARE OLD, UH, VIRGINIA CODE 15. OKAY, WELL THEY'RE LOOKING AT THAT. WE CAN KEEP GOING HEIGHT. UM, IT SAYS HERE, 35 FEET SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS ARE ALSO KNOWN AS SPECIAL USE PERMITS OR CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS. OKAY. UH, YEAH. 2201 DEFINES IT. SPECIAL EXCEPTION, SPECIAL USE IS NOT IN USE, NOT USE, NOT PERMITTED A THAT BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT GRANT DIVISION, CHAPTER WORDS . SO IF THEY'RE ONE IN THE SAME, SHOULD OUR CODE NOT JUST CALL ALL OF THEM THE SAME THING? I I, I THINK ON IT, ON A LEGAL STANDPOINT, I DON'T THINK IT'S NOT, THEY'RE NOT GRANTING A CHANGE AT SOMETHING IN THE USE. TO ME, AN EXCEPTION IS LIKE A, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GRANTING A WAIVER RIGHT? TO ME. YEAH. THEY'RE ASKING FOR A WAIVER OF THE REQUIREMENTS. RIGHT. THAT WOULD, BASED ON MY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE, YOU'RE THEY'RE ASKING, THEY'D BE ASKING FOR A WAIVER, OTHER REQUIREMENTS NOT FOR THE USE TO, SO DO YOU WANT THAT ACTUAL EXCEPTION, NOT SPECIALS, USE PERMIT? IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT WOULD MAKE MORE SENSE. 'CAUSE IT'S NOT CAN I ASK YOU FOR A SPECIAL USE? OKAY. I MEAN, BUT WE'D HAVE TO LOOK WHAT STATE CODE DEFINES THAT. 'CAUSE TO ME, IF YOU'RE ASKING FOR REDUCTION ON THE WIDTH, YOU'RE NOT, IT'S NOT A USE USE. YEAH. YEAH. SAYS YEP. DEFINITION IS SPECIAL EXCEPTION USE THAT IS ALREADY LISTED IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE IS ALLOWABLE IF CERTAIN CRITERIA ARE MET FOR THAT SPECIAL EXCEPTION, SPECIAL USE, THE USE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE SAYS MAY BE PERMITTED APPROVED BY THE BOARD GOVERNING BODY. RIGHT. SO IF YOU'RE A ASKING FOR IT, YES. IF YOU'RE ASKING FOR A, A REDUCTION OR A WAIVER, THEN THE REQUIREMENT, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK INTO. I DON'T, I I WOULDN'T THINK IT WOULD BE UNDER A SPECIAL USE. I THINK WE MAY BE SPECIAL, BUT, UM OKAY. IT JUST, WE NEED PROBABLY LOOK INTO THAT. ALRIGHT. A LITTLE BIT MORE. OKAY. SO THEN WE GET INTO THE STANDARDS. UM, WE HAVE FLUTTERING ACTIVITIES. UM, ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THESE TWO ITEMS? BUT DOES IT MATTER IF YOU'RE SLAUGHTERING ONE CHICKEN VERSUS 50? NOT IF YOU'RE A HUNDRED FEET FOR THE PROPERTY BOND. RIGHT. BUT, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT WHAT I'M SAYING. IF SOMEBODY'S JUST SLAUGHTERED IN ONE CHICKEN, DO THEY HAVE TO BE AT 153? I'M JUST WONDERING IF THERE SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF SAYS ALL SLAUGHTERING ACTIVITY. UM, YEAH. SO URBAN EGGS, THAT'S, THAT'S WOULD BE, WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED IN AN URBAN AG SETTING. IT WOULDN'T EVEN ONE CHICKEN, RIGHT? YEAH. YOU CAN'T SWALLOW YOUR CHICKENS IN TOWN. NO, THEY ARE FOR EGGS AND COMPANION. NOT SO WHERE DO YOU TAKE THEM? CROSS THE LINE. THE WAY THE CODE IS WRITTEN. SLAUGHTERING ACTIVITIES ONLY PERMITTED IN THE A ONE. YEAH. OKAY. SO AT ONE POINT IN TIME, STAFF HAD TAKEN TO COUNCIL [00:45:01] A TEXT AMENDMENT OF THE URBAN AG PROVISIONS AND UM, I THINK IT WAS CHAPTER 40 CODE, REMEMBER? EXACTLY. THAT ENDED UP BEING A FUN MEETING. BUT I NEVER ONCE WHEN YOU SAID CHICKENS, I WAS JUST GOING, OH MAN, THIS IS GONNA BE A CAN OF WORMS POTENTIALLY. SO THIS WAS, SO IT WAS THE MAY, UM, IT WAS THE REGULAR MEETING IN MAY, I THINK OF 2024 IS WHERE I FINALLY FOUND IT. I MISSED, I MISSED THAT. UH, MAY 28TH . UM, IF YOU WANNA WATCH THE VIDEO, WATCH THE VIDEO. UM, COUNSEL DECIDED NOT TO APPROVE IT AND THE CRUX OF THE DISCUSSION WAS ABOUT LETTING CHICKENS FREE RANGE. WE DO NOT ALLOW ANIMALS TO RUN AT LARGE IN TOWN. WE GOT HUNG UP AND IT WAS, IT WAS DENIED. UM, I'M MISSING ANYTHING FROM THAT MEETING. I THINK YOU WERE THERE, RIGHT? UH, I WASHED IT. UM, AND YEAH, I MEAN THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY SHOULD BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, KEEP OR SLAUGHTER ANYTHING, PROPERTY RIGHTS, THINGS ALONG THOSE LINES. YEAH. UM, AND YEAH, THERE WAS A CHAPTER, A CONSENSUS COULD NOT BE MET. AND SO I THINK WITH THIS, THIS, WITH THE WAY THAT THE SLAUGHTERING ACTIVITIES IS SET AT RIGHT NOW FOR AT LEAST FOR A ONE, IT KEEPS IT SIMPLE ENOUGH THAT IT'S EASY TO FOLLOW. AND IT'S ALSO SOMETHING WHERE IF SOMEONE'S GONNA BE DOING SOMETHING, UNLESS THEY'RE RIGHT UP ON THE STREET AND SOMEONE'S WATCHING THEM DO IT AND GOING, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT GONNA BE A PROBLEM. PEOPLE CAN STILL HAVE, YOU KNOW, RESPECT TO THEIR OWN PROPERTY. AND SO I THINK HERE IT'S, THIS IS, AND PART OF LIKE, LIKE I'LL JUST SAY I WAS VERY FRUSTRATED WITH THIS BECAUSE THE WHOLE ASK FROM STAFF WAS WE HAVE CHAPTER 66 AND THEN ONE 10.5 THAT'S GOT CONTRADICTORY LANGUAGE IN IT. SO IN 66, LIKE IT SAYS 66 DASH FIVE, IT SHALL BE UNLAWFUL FOR ANY BUTCHER OR VENDOR OF NEEDS OR ANY OTHER PERSON TO SLAUGHTER, UM, LIVESTOCK OR FOUL WITHIN THE TOWN LIMIT. LIKE IT SAYS YOU CAN'T DO IT AT THIS POINT BLANK. YES. SO WE HAVE THAT CHAPTER AND THEN WE HAD URBAN AG AND IT JUST, IT, THIS CHAPTER STILL NEEDS CLEANING UP. UM, AND IT STILL CONTRADICTS OUR CURRENT URBAN AG ORDINANCE. I WOULD LIKE FOR THAT SLAUGHTERING ACTIVITIES I THINK ON THE CODE IS FOR AGRICULTURAL YEAH. ZONING DISTRICTS. IT DOESN'T STATE THAT WELL. IT'S PERMITTED IN OUR A ONE BUT CHAPTER 66 MADE IT SEEM AS THOUGH IT WAS LIKE A BLANKET STATEMENT. I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE STARTED MAKING THESE CHANGES. RIGHT. WELL THERE WAS A CONTRADICTORY LANGUAGE. YEAH. THAT NEEDS EXCLUDING THE A ONE DISTRICT YEAH. NEEDS TO BE ADDED. A SIMPLE FIX. RIGHT. EVEN JUST EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE STATED. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. NOT ME. WELL WE, NO, WE GOTTA TACKLE THESE THINGS. I MEAN, DON'T THINK THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, JUST TO WORK THROUGH IT AND OUT FOR PROBLEMS AS WE GO. I'M NOT PLANNING, I'M ENGAGING IN ANY SLAUGHTERING ACTIVITIES. . YEAH. UM, OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO FOR THIS SECTION, WE'RE NOT GONNA MESS WITH THIS. I THINK THAT WE CAN ADDRESS UNDER SLAUGHTERING UNDER EIGHT IN CHAPTER 66 OF WHO'S GONNA GET THAT CHANGED AT SOME POINT. OKAY. THEN WE, WE NEED TO MAKE A NOTE TO UM, TRY TO BRING CHAPTER 66 BACK TO TOWN COUNCIL. I MEAN IT'S LIKE ANYTHING ELSE WHEN YOU CHANGE ONE PART OF THE CODE AND IT'S IN SOMEWHERE ELSE, WE'VE GOTTA, YEAH. UNFORTUNATELY YOU GOTTA CHANGE THE CODE, THAT EFFECT. BUT THAT IS THE GOOD LANGUAGE TO USE TO JUST SAY ACCEPT AS OTHERWISE. WOULD IT BE HELPFUL AT ALL, UM, WHEN WE DO, YOU KNOW, SEND, IF WE'RE SENDING THIS SECTION OFF BY ITSELF TO BE APPROVED BY COUNCIL, HOWEVER THAT PROCESS IS WORKING FOR US TO INCLUDE IN THE MOTION JUST A NOTE THAT WE RECOMMEND UPDATING SECTION 66 TO MATCH THE LANGUAGE THAT IS HERE OR TO MATCH THE PERMISSIONS THAT ARE HERE. MY THOUGHT IS LIKE WE'LL HAVE THIS WORK SESSION, WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER WORK SESSION AT THE, AFTER THE REGULAR MEETING THIS MONTH AND WE'LL HAVE TWO WORK SESSIONS OR [00:50:02] NOVEMBER 5TH WILL BE THE WORK SESSION AND THEN AT THAT POINT WE REVIEWED THIS WHOLE ORDINANCE AND WE'LL DO A PUBLIC HEARING IN NOVEMBER. MM-HMM . FOR THE WHOLE THING. THAT'S THE IDEA. AND THEN, YOU KNOW, BASED ON PUBLIC FEEDBACK, IF WE NEED TO CONTINUE WORKING ON IT IN WORK SESSIONS WITH , OTHERWISE YOU CAN MAKE YOUR RECOMMENDATION TO COUNSEL. BUT WHEN WE DO THAT, WE COULD MAKE A LIST MM-HMM . OF ALL THE OTHER SECTIONS. WOULD YOU RECOMMEND I IF THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL? 'CAUSE I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, REGARDLESS OF ANY PERSONAL OPINION ABOUT WHO SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WHAT, WHERE SAYING HEY THERE'S THIS CONTRADICTION THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. BUT I THINK THAT COULD BE HELPFUL. AND THIS ALSO CLARIFIED WHO WOULD ENFORCE THESE RULES. SO, YOU KNOW, THIS ARTICLE MAY BE ENFORCED BY, IN THE PATROL OFFICER FRONT WHERE A POLICE OFFICER OR THE TOWN CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, THAT WAS LIKE BIG THING WE WANTED BECAUSE THAT JUST CLARIFIED WHO WHO CAN. YEAH. YEAH. UM, AND THEN WE HAVE IT AS LIKE A COST MISDEMEANOR TO VIOLATE THE PERMISSION TO THAT ARTICLE. UM, IS IT IN THE CODE? WHO CAN, WHERE, BUT SO DO YOU WANNA MOVE ON TO FARMER'S PLAY MARKETS OR DO YOU WANNA KEEP TALKING ABOUT THAT? LONG'S GONNA MAKE A NOTE THAT THERE'S A REFERENCE. I AGREE. MAKE A REFERENCE THAT OTHER PARTS OF THE CODE CHANGE. RIGHT. OTHER CHAPTERS OF CHAPTER. UH, RIGHT. CHANGE BECAUSE CHAPTER 66, PLANNING COMMISSION'S NOT GONNA REVIEW. THAT'S SOLELY COUNSEL. I'M JUST SEEING IT AS A POSSIBLE OPPORTUNITY. UM, IF WE CAN HELP IN ON SOMETHING THAT WE'RE, THAT'S NOT REALLY UNDER OUR PURVIEW, BUT JUST YOU NOTING WHERE YOU'RE SEEING AND IN THE AGENDA FOR THAT MAY 28TH MEETING HAS THE RED LINE OF THE CODE FOR CHAPTER 66, UM, THAT OUR LEGAL OR OUR TOWN ATTORNEY HELPED CRAFT THIS. OKAY. HEAVY HANDED . SO I THINK THIS IS STILL VALID AND STILL WHAT WE DO RE DO. YES. SOUNDS GOOD. KEEP THIS RUNNING LIST OF, OF ASSOCIATED ITEMS. YEAH. OKAY. SO IT'S THE MARCH 28TH, 2024 MEETING. MAY THE AGENDA, SORRY. MAY, MAY TOWN COACH, UM, CHAPTER 66. OH AND THEN THERE IS ANOTHER, I MEAN I JUST TOLD 'CAUSE WE GOT A PHONE CALL ON THAT. THERE'S ANOTHER SECTION OF TOWN CODE ABOUT WILD BEING PROCESSING THAT WE PROBABLY ALSO RECOMMEND THEY HAVE THAT ONCE IN A WHILE SOMEONE WILL CALL IN RECORDING SOMEBODY. I MEAN JUST ONE. THOSE CHAPTERS ARE SUBJECTS. ALRIGHT. FARMER'S ONE AT THE ADDRESS WHETHER WE BOUGHT OR NOT. OH YEAH. AGREE. JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY IF, BECAUSE I, I ACTUALLY RAN ACROSS SOMEBODY DOING THIS IN THE BACK ALLEY IN TOWN. MM-HMM . YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. THEY WERE, THEY WERE, I THINK THEY JUST HIT A DEER. RIGHT. AND THEY WERE SKINNING IT AND GUTTING IT AND EVERYTHING IN THE BACK OF THEIR TRUCK. WOW. JUST IN THE BACK ALLEY . I MEAN ON THE ONE HAND I DO HAVE SYMPATHY FOR THE FACT THAT OKAY, THOSE DEER'S ALREADY DEAD. LIKE WHY WASTE IT? TOTALLY. SO, UM, AND AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND IT'S OUTSIDE OUR PURVIEW, NOT TRYING TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT PERHAPS THERE COULD BE SOME FORM OF ALLOWANCES, UM, TO MAKE IT SO THAT YEAH. SO THAT IF SOMEONE WHO'S, YOU KNOW, TAKING CARE OF SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY DEAD, YOU KNOW, OR YOU KNOW, OTHER, OTHER SIMILAR TYPES THAT'S COVERED BY THE STATE. THERE, THERE ARE ORDINANCES IN OTHER PLACES THAT YOU'RE REQUIRED TO TURN IT OVER. LIKE I DON'T THINK YOU CAN LITERALLY, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO REPORT IT AND THEN WE CAN SOCIOECONOMIC FRONT YARD JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY MEAN WE HAVE, I THINK THERE'S ENOUGH HUNTERS HERE WHO ARE OF LOWER SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS. I MEAN IF THEY WANT TO BUTCHER THAT AND BRING IT HOME AND THAT'S THEIR FAMILY FOOD FOR THE NEXT FEW MONTHS. YEAH. AND IT IS OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS OR WHATEVER. WE DON'T GET TO THAT WAS PRETTY FUNNY THOUGH. [00:55:01] I'M HIDING BY HIM AND I LEAVE OUT THE WINDOW. I DON'T KNOW WHAT OH, THEY, OH, THEY WERE BLOCKING THE, THE, THE, THE ALLEYWAY. I JUST SAID, OH DO YOU MIND JUST MOVING ME? HE GETS UP AND BLOOD DRIPPING OUT THERE. THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, THEY'LL BE OUT THERE HUNTING WITH THEIR 63 CHEVY. WOW. FANTASTIC. ALRIGHT. FARMER'S MARKET FLEA MARKET. SO THESE ARE PERMITTED WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. UM, AND THESE ARE OUR PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. UM, SO ADEQUATE WATER AND SANITARY FACILITIES PROVIDED, UM, A MINIMUM OF 50 FOOT SETBACK SHALL BE MAINTAINED FROM ALL PROPERTY LINES. NO ADVERSE IMPACTS ON THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES, NO MANUFACTURED BUILDINGS PERMITTED. UM, JUST KEEPING IT CLEAN, THE TABLES, THE FACILITIES, UM, REMOVING THE TEMPORARY STRUCTURES STARTING THE DAY. THAT'S BEEN A, THAT'S BEEN AN ISSUE WITH HER AND FARMER'S MARKETS WE HAVE. AND ARE THESE, UH, UM, STANDARDS THE SAME ACROSS THE BOARD? YES. SO IF YOU, IF WE TAKE IN AN APPLICATION, SPECIAL USE PERMIT APPLICATION FOR A FARMER'S MARKET, THESE ARE THE STANDARDS WHICH YOU WOULD BASICALLY ALMOST LIKE GRADE IT AGAINST, RIGHT? YOU WOULD LOOK AT THESE AND SAY, DOESN'T MEET. YOU COULD ALMOST MAKE THIS LIKE A CHECKLIST. UM, SO DID YOU GUYS SEE ANY ISSUES WITH THESE 15 PERFORMANCE STANDARDS? I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT NUMBER SIX THOUGH. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY I KNOW THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN FARMERS MARKETS WHO ALREADY RUN INTO THIS ISSUE. UM, ON THE OTHER HAND, IT'S, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE YOU WANNA BE CAREFUL WITH CHANGING STANDARDS, YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON THE ZONING. BUT IN A ONE WHERE YOU HAVE SUCH A SETBACK ANYWAY FROM THE STREET, AND SO IT'S NOT LIKE IT WOULD BE A PUBLIC EYE SWORD NECESSARILY, DEPENDING ON WHERE IT IS. DO WE THINK IT MIGHT BE REASONABLE TO NOT REQUIRE THAT THESE TABLES BE TAKEN DOWN SPECIFICALLY IN A ONE OR THESE TEMPORARY STRUCTURES? UH, WE HAVE A 10 ACRE LOT, AT LEAST 150 OR A HUNDRED FEET AWAY FROM THE ROAD. I WOULD SAY LET 'EM KEEP IT. IT DOES SAY IN THERE AS PART OF THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT. THE BENEFIT I THINK TO DOING WHAT MEGAN IS SUGGESTING IS SHE DOESN'T, YOU GUYS DON'T GET BUGGED WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. LIKE, IS THAT WELL THE FLEA MARKET'S ALWAYS SPECIAL USE PERMIT NO MATTER WHAT. OKAY. SO THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE APP. THEY WOULD SPECIAL. WHEN YOU LOOK AT 10, 11 AND 12, YOU KNOW IT'S GOT LANDSCAPING AND SENSING AND SO IF YOU DO SCREEN IT PROPERLY, NOT ADEQUATE SCREENING, NO ONE IS GONNA SEE THIS. SO I MEAN IT ALMOST SEEMS LIKE, LIKE IF IT ACROSS THE BOARD, WHAT WOULD BE REASONABLE TO LET THAT, LET THEM KEEP THEM UP IN, IN AN AGRICULTURAL ZONE? MAYBE WE SPECIFY IN A ONE DISTRICT BECAUSE WOULD THAT MAKE STAFF LIFE EASY? WOULD THAT MAKE EVERYBODY'S LIFE A LITTLE BIT EASIER? COULD DO THAT KIND OF A, I JUST, I COULD SEE SITUATIONS WHERE A HOMEOWNER WOULD JUST HOPE THAT NO ONE CHECKS BEHIND THE CURTAIN TO FIND OUT THAT THEY'RE NOT PUTTING THE TABLES AWAY. AND I WOULD HATE TO PUT A HOMEOWNER POSITION WHERE THEY FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE TO LIE IN ORDER TO GET SOMETHING WHERE THE RESTRICTION DOESN'T NECESSARILY MAKE SENSE FOR THAT AREA. FAILED LIVE ANIMALS. THAT'S BEEN AN ISSUE. BUT YOU KNOW, WE SEE THAT WE CAN, BUT THE PROBLEM IS LIKE WITH A LOT OF THESE, THEY HAPPEN ON THE WEEKENDS WHEN STAFF ISN'T WORKING AND IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, NECESSARILY I'M NOT GONNA MAKE CODE ENFORCEMENT GO OUT TO EVERY FARMER'S MARKET ON THE WEEKEND BE IF THEY'RE SELLING OR TAKING ONE OF THEIR, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? THE TABLES NEED TO BE TAKEN DOWN. UH, NUMBER SIX DURING, IT SAYS DURING THE DAYS THAT THE MARKET IS NOT IN OPERATION. RIGHT. AND I'M SAYING IT'S A THURSDAY FRIDAY, SO THEY'RE ONLY OPEN ON FRIDAY, SATURDAY AND SUNDAYS, RIGHT. YEAH. AND IF IT'S A ONE AND THEY'RE ALREADY IN BEHIND BARRIERS AND EVERYTHING, THEN WHY MAKE THEM HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THE WORK OF TAKING IT DOWN AND PUTTING IT BACK SPECIFICALLY IN A ONE, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER DISTRICTS WILL, WILL GET THERE. , I UNDERSTAND COMMERCE STREET IS ITS OWN AND WE'LL, UM, SO JUST I'M SAYING, AND MAYBE IT'S ENGLISH MAJOR BASED, BUT TITLE B SAYS FARMER'S MARKET FLEA MARKETS MM-HMM . AND THEN THE NEXT SENTENCE ONLY LEA MARKETS AND DOESN'T BRING UP FARMER'S. AND IF YOU WANT IT GO FOR THE ENTIRE SECTION, I THINK IT'S GOT LEWIS FARMER'S MARKETS [01:00:02] AND THEN SOME, SOME OF THE PARAGRAPHS ONLY MAYBE ONLY MENTION FLEA MARKETS OR FARMER, YOU KNOW MM-HMM . SO I DON'T KNOW, LIKE SEVEN THAT CONSISTENCY MARKET. YEAH. DO IS IT ONLY FOR A FLEA MARKET THAT YOU WANT IT TO BE CONFINED TO FRIDAY, SATURDAY, SUNDAY, AND HOLIDAYS? OR IS THAT ALSO FARMER'S? YOU KNOW, I JUST, BUT SHOULD WE, SHOULD WE REMOVE OUT OF LIKE EVEN IN SEVEN OR EIGHT IT SAYS OPERATION OF FLEA MARKET SHALL BE CONFINED. SHOULD WE JUST SAY OPERATIONS SHALL BE CONFINED? IF YOU WANT TO GO FOR BOTH. IF YOU WANT TO GO TO BOTH, LIKE, LIKE THAT'S JUST ANOTHER WAY OF BEING SAFE THAT WE'RE GETTING BOTH. I MEAN, UH, WELL I GET MY QUESTION ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT WOULD BE, WOULD WE WANT TO ALLOW A FARMER'S MARKET ON AN AGRICULTURAL PROPERTY TO BE ABLE TO OPERATE ON A WEDNESDAY? RIGHT. YOU KNOW, IS THERE A SPECIFIC REASON FOR SOMETHING LIKE FARMER'S MARKETS, WHICH ARE PRIMARILY FOOD STOPS, RIGHT. TO BE ABLE TO OPERATE ON OTHER DAYS ASIDE FROM JUST FRIDAY, SATURDAY, SUNDAY AND HOLIDAYS. IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS. SO FLEA MARKET IS AN ASSEMBLY OF VENDORS SELLING NEW REUSED GOODS IN THE OPEN AIR OR WITHIN TEMPORARY STRUCTURES. MM-HMM . WHICH DISPLAY AND SELL THEIR WARES ON THE LANDS OF ANOTHER FOR A CONSIDERATION. AND THEN WHEN YOU GET TO FARMER'S MARKET, IT'S A COLLECTION OF TWO OR MORE VENDORS SELLING FARM OR DOMESTIC PRODUCTS, GARDEN PRODUCE, NURSERY PRODUCTS, ORNAMENTAL OR OTHERWISE, WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN GROWN OR PRODUCED BY THE VENDOR, UH, OFFERING SAME FOR SALE IN OPEN AIR SETTING OR WITH TEMPORARY OR PARTIALLY IMPROVED STRUCTURES. SO ONE IS JUST WHATEVER, LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU FIND IN YOUR HOUSE, YOU CAN GO SELL IT AND THE OTHER IS DID YOU GROW IT? MAKE IT RAISE IT. WE CAN'T SELL EXCEPT WE CAN'T SELL ANIMALS AND YOU CAN'T SLAUGHTER 'EM SO WELL IN THE NURSERY. THEY USED TO BE THERE AT THE CORNER OF COMMERCE MORNING. THAT WAS, UH, THEY CERTAINLY DID. THEY BROUGHT THOSE PLANTS, THEY BROUGHT THOSE PLANTS IN. THEY PURCHAS THOSE FROM YEAH, THEY HAVE. YEAH, BUT THAT WASN'T, THEY WERE WOULD THEY BE? NO, THEY WERE A NURSERY. THAT'S A SEPARATE USE. WELL THE ONE WAS SEVEN. IF YOU HAVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FARMER'S MARKET WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THEY COULD PUT THAT ON A CON AS A CONDITION THAT THEY COULD GIVE THEM DIFFERENT TIMES. WELL, BUT, BUT ARE, ARE YOU THINKING NOW I'M THINKING THAT MAYBE THOSE HOURS OF OPERATION DON'T APPLY TO A FARMER'S MARKET APPLY. YEAH, IT IS, IT IS CURRENTLY WOULD APPLY ONLY ONLY TO THE POLICE. MM-HMM . BUT THEN, THEN YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO FIGURE, YOU KNOW, IF, IF IT'S KIND OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT, HOW THE CODE AND WHY IT WAS WRITTEN. SO WE'RE THINKING MAYBE ONE THROUGH SIX APPLIES TO BOTH OF THEM AS A AND THEN AFTER AND THEN AFTER IT CAN BE EITHER OR. THEN SEVEN ONLY FOR FLEA MARKET, THEN 8, 8, 9 AND EIGHT AND NINE FOR BOTH. BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY. YEAH, PERHAPS IT'S A LITTLE DISJOINTED THERE. MM-HMM . MM-HMM AND THIS IS STRAIGHT FROM OUR CURRENT CODE. UM, LET'S SEE. SO AT THE RISK OF TAB THINGS IN EVEN FURTHER, MAYBE UNDER B THEY HAVE, UH, THERE'S A HEADER THAT SAYS STANDARDS FOR BOTH MM-HMM THEN ONE THAT SAYS STANDARDS FOR FLEA MARKETS. ONE THAT SAYS STANDARDS FOR FARMER'S MARKETS. BECAUSE I COULD SEE ALSO AS, AS A HOMEOWNER LOOKING THROUGH THIS AND GOING, WAIT, WHAT , SO WHICH ONES DO WE LIKE FOR BOTH THE MANUAL? BECAUSE WE CAN REORDER THESE. THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. WHICH ONE'S BOTH ADEQUATE WATER AND SANITARY HAS TO BE BOTH. RIGHT? SETBACK. SETBACK TO BE BOTH. NO SETBACK. THREE, FOUR, AND FIVE. UH, I WOULD BE INCLINED TO JUST STRIKE SIX ENTIRELY. OKAY. UH, BUT OF COURSE THAT'S JUST NO, I I AGREE AT THIS POINT. YEAH. THAT'S SAYING YES. REMOVING, THEY'RE SAYING THOSE BUILDINGS. IF YOU, IF YOU'RE GOING TO OPERATE, WE'LL JUST SAY A FARMER'S MARKET FOR EXAMPLE, FROM MAY TO OCTOBER, ARE YOU GONNA ALLOW THOSE BUILDINGS TO BE THERE THE REST OF THE YEAR AS TEMPORARY STRUCTURES? UH, NO, BECAUSE NUMBER EIGHT SAYS THAT THEY MUST TAKE 'EM DOWN IF THEY'RE NOT IN OPERATION FOR A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD OF TIME. SIX IS LIKE IF, YOU KNOW, ON SUNDAY NIGHT, TAKE 'EM DOWN 'CAUSE MONDAY THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED. BUT HOW WOULD THAT AFFECT LIKE THE FARMER'S MARKET THAT HAPPENS ON, ON MAIN STREET? IT WOULDN'T BECAUSE THEY'RE ONLY AROUND ON, UH, IT'S IN A DIFFERENT ZONING [01:05:01] DISTRICT. PUBLIC PROPERTY. WE PUBLIC PROPERTY THERE. THIS IS JUST IN THE AG DISTRICT. SORRY. I SEE. YES, YOU'RE RIGHT. WE'LL HAVE A SECTION B FOR LIKE FARMER'S MARKET AND THEN WE'LL DO A SECTION C FOR FLEA MARKET AND THEN WE JUST HAVE SOME THINGS REPEATED. YEAH, WE CAN JUST REPEAT THAT. THAT ACTUALLY MAKES A LOT CONFUSING ALL. SO WHICH ONE? YOU'RE RIGHT THEN SIX. YOU HAVE SIX, SCRATCH THAT. SO GET RID OF SIX, THEN SEVEN WILL JUST BE FLEA MARKETS, RIGHT? MM-HMM . AND THEN EIGHT WOULD BE BOTH. MM-HMM . NINE. NINE BOTH. SO I THINK YOU SET THE DAYS AND THE TIMES WITH THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT MM-HMM . AND THAT'S THE POINT WITH THIS, RIGHT? MM-HMM . SO THAT'S A BOTH, I THINK ONE, I THINK LANDSCAPING IS BOTH SALE. HAVE ANIMALS PROHIBITED THAT'S OUTSIDE. NO, WE CAN STRIKE THAT . WE DON'T WANT THOSE PUPPIES COMING HERE. . UM, THEY'LL DO MERCHANDISE FOR SERVING FOOD OTHER THAN FARMER DOMESTIC PRODUCTS. THEN YOU HAVE TO GET THE ITINERANT MERCHANT PETR LICENSE. THAT'S FOR EACH. SO YOU COULD, SO YOU, SO YOU OPERATE A FARMER'S MARKET THEN WHEN A VENDOR COMES IN TO SET UP, YEAH. EACH VENDOR WOULD HAVE TO HAVE AN ITINERANT MERCHANT BUSINESS LICENSE TO OPERATE THE VENDOR WOULD, BUT QUESTION WHAT I MAKE YOUR OWN JAMS AND PRESERVE AND SELL THEM TO. WELL, YOU'RE A VENDOR. YEAH. RIGHT? IF YOU HAVE A FARMER'S MARKET LICENSE, LOOK AT YOUR PROPERTY. MEGAN, MEGAN HAS A FARMER'S MARKET OPEN AND SHE GETS VENDORS. IF YOU AS A VENDOR, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO GET A, BUT WHAT ABOUT IF SHE MAKES THE PRESERVE? BUT THESE ARE, BUT THAT'S NOT, BUT YOU'RE NOT OPENING THE PRESERVES THERE AND EATING IT ON THE SPOT. THAT'S I THINK WHAT THIS IS TALKING ABOUT. OH, AND I ALSO THINK PART OF THIS NEW MERCHANDISE, I'VE BEEN CLOSE, CLOSE. IT WAS THE SALE OF, YEAH. I ALSO PARTLY THINK THERE'S AN ELEMENT OF THIS THAT I'M SAYING IF YOU'RE SELLING SOMETHING, THEN YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR, THE TAXES TO THE TOWN FOR SALE. RIGHT. THE SALES TAX OR WHATEVER IT IS. UM, NOT THAT I'M ALL ABOUT TAXING. I'M NOT ACTUALLY, I CAN'T STAND TAXES, BUT, BUT THIS IS WHERE, THIS IS WHERE, ANYWAY, I'M, I'M PROBABLY DOING OVERKILL ON THIS, BUT THAT'S THE RATIONALE FOR THAT LICENSE. AND, AND THERE ARE STANDARDS THAT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN ORDER TO HAVE THAT LICENSE. RIGHT. LIKE HYGIENE OR CLEANLINESS. SO YEAH, I THINK AT THE SAME TIME I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. IF I OWN A FARM AND I GROW A BUNCH OF BERRIES AND I MAKE IT INTO A JAM AND I WANNA SELL THAT IN A FARMER'S MARKET THAT I ALREADY PAID TO GET A SPECIAL USE FIRM FOR, THEN I HAVE TO PAY TO GET AN ALTERNA MERCHANT OR CUB OF LICENSE. NOT EXPENSIVE. IT'S, YEAH, BUT IT'S A HASSLE. BUT IF YOU OWN A FARM, EVERYTHING'S EXPENSIVE. UM, SO NOT, I'M NOT AGAINST NECESSARILY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE AN ALLOWANCE IF THIS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE FENDING ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY WITH YOUR OWN PRODUCE. WELL, SOME, SOME THINGS ARE EXEMPT. YEAH. JUST THAT ON THE AGRICULTURAL END, THERE IS A PROVISION IN STATE AND TOWN CODE FOR, UM, YOU CAN'T PROHIBIT AGRICULTURAL ACTIVITIES ON CER CERTAIN THINGS. WELL, YEAH, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, THE WAY THIS IS WORDED MAKES IT SOUND LIKE IF I HAVE A FARMER'S MARKET AND I AS A HOMEOWNER PROPERTY OWNER HAPPEN TO ALSO BE SELLING MY OWN PRODUCTS, I HAVE TO GET THESE OTHER LICENSES TOO. WELL THAT SINCE OTHER THAN DOMESTIC PRODUCTS, RIGHT? . OH MY GOODNESS. WOW. DOMESTIC PRODUCTS, COOK, DRY, CAN FOOD STUFFS AND OTHER AGRICUL. SO YEAH. MAN, WHAT A GREAT USE OF 10 MINUTES. SORRY ABOUT THAT. I'LL LEAVE NOW WE HAVE THE WIRE AT THE YEAH, THANK YOU. SOMEBODY KNOWS HOW TO READ SO WE'LL, WE'LL KIND OF RESTRUCTURE THAT. MM-HMM . MM-HMM . AND THEN I THINK WE'RE GOOD THERE, RIGHT? MM-HMM . DO WE NEED 15 BY THE WAY? SINCE I DON'T, IS THERE ANY A ONE THAT'S PUBLIC PROPERTY? NO, WE DON'T. NO. PUBLIC EVENT. [01:10:01] OH, PUBLIC EVENT. OKAY. I SEE. YEAH. BUT IF THIS IS PUBLIC PROPERTY, PUBLIC FARMER'S MARKETS AND FLEA MARKETS ON PUBLIC PROPERTY SHALL BE CLASSIFY A PUBLIC EVENT. WE DON'T HAVE ANY PUBLIC, I THOUGHT THERE WAS SOMETHING AT EIGHT O'CLOCK ON SUNDAY BOARD. WELL, THAT'S IN, THAT'S IN TOWN. THAT'S IN THE, THAT THE GAZEBO. THAT'S C TWO. THAT'S, THAT'S A, THAT'S A PUBLIC. WE'RE LOOKING AT STANDARDS FOR A NO, THE ONE AT THE GAZEBO IS PUBLIC PROPERTY. RIGHT? RIGHT. THESE STANDARDS APPLY TO A ONE WHICH PUBLIC PROPERTY. OKAY. OH, SO YOU'RE SAYING GET RID OF 15 POTENTIALLY. WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING? THIS, THIS APPLIES TO ANY FARMER'S MARKET, THE FLEA MARKET. THIS IS, I THOUGHT THE STANDARDS FOR A ONE, IT'S JUST A ONE, RIGHT? THIS ISN'T A DEFINITION. I KNOW, BUT THIS IS THE SAME LANGUAGE IT'S IN FOR FARMERS' MARKETS. AND THEN WHY DON'T WE JUST HAVE PROVISIONAL LIKE SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARDS FOR FARMERS' MARKETS AT THE END OF IT WITH ALL THE OTHER ONES? WELL, I THINK 6, 15, 15, IF YOU HAVE A FARMER'S MARKET ON PUBLIC PROPERTY, YOU DON'T NEED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. IT'S A PUBLIC EVENT. RIGHT. BUT THEN IT SHOULDN'T BE IN THIS SECTION. WELL, WHERE ELSE WOULD IT BE? THE OTHER FEED MARKET? NO, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IT'S ONLY ON THESE, THIS PART OF IT. BUT WE OKAY. WE PREVENT MARKET IN OTHER ZONES. YES. THERE WOULD BE ABOUT THE STANDARDS IN THOSE OTHER ZONES. RIGHT. SO FARMER'S MARKET, THAT'S WHAT I WAS READING. SO WHERE, WHERE'S THE FARMER'S MARKET AND CLEAN MARKET ALSO ARE LOUD OUT. SO WE HAVE, UH, CLEAR, BECAUSE AGAIN, CHAPTER SEVEN THREE, WE TALK ABOUT, UM, FARMER'S MARKET. WE TALK ABOUT NURSING AND ENGAGING SALE FARMERS MARKET EXEMPTIONS. TOWN TAX. WHERE IN THE CITY? JUST PUT IN THE BATTERY. I KNEW YES. SECTION. YEAH, I DON'T THINK IT'S LISTED. THE USES ARE LISTED. THE ONLY OTHER PLACE THAT IT'S ALLOWED IS C TWO, RIGHT? YEAH. WHICH IS OUR DOWNTOWN BUSINESS DISTRICT. RIGHT? YEAH. THAT'S IT. SO C TWO PRESUMABLY WOULD HAVE A SET OF PERFORMANCE STANDARDS AS WELL IN THE C TWO SECTION. UM, AND IF IT, BUT I DON'T THINK WE, WE DON'T COVER THAT IN THE C TWO BECAUSE, WELL, THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING THAT'S PROBABLY NOT, WELL, 1 75 52 E AND IT, IT REFERENCE, IT ONLY REFERENCES WERE PERMITTED TO FORM. YEAH. IT REFERENCES. I'M ALMOST OFF THE LINE THAT WE CREATE, BUT WE MOVE THIS AS SUPPLEMENTAL. SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS. WELL, YOU, YOU CAN HAVE IT BECAUSE THE OTHER ONE REQUIRES THE C TWO. THE FARMER'S MARKET IS, IS LISTED ONLY IN THE C TWO. SO IN C TWO IT HAS OH, IT DOES ONLY STATE FARMER'S MARKETS DOESN'T TALK ABOUT FLEA MARKET. OKAY. RIGHT. SO IN THAT CASE THEN, IT SOUNDS LIKE WHEN WE EVENTUALLY GET TO C TWO, WE SHOULD JUST EXPAND THAT OUT, INCLUDE FLEA MARKETS AND HAVE THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS AS PARTICULAR TO C TWO AS OPPOSED TO UNNECESSARILY RESTRICTING PEOPLE IN A ONE BASED ON THE REQUIREMENTS OF C TWO. WELL, IF WE, IF, IF, IF AS THE CODE'S WRITTEN NOW, I THINK THE FLEA MARKET IS ONLY PERMITTED IN THE, IN THE A ONE AND THEN THE FARMERS MARKET'S PERMITTED IN BOTH. THEN HOW IS IT OVER ON COMMERCE? THAT'S A NON-CONFORMING USE. THAT ONE'S. OH, IT'S FROM FORMER. GOT IT. NEVERMIND. OKAY. I WAS JUST RIGHT. YEAH. HISTORY . YEAH. THAT'S A, AS A FRONT ROYAL INSTITUTION, IT IS. RIGHT? SO THAT, YEAH. SO A ONE ALLOWS BOTH MM-HMM . THE C TWO ONLY ALLOWS THE FARMER'S MARKET. OKAY. WELL MY CASE, AND I THINK THE ONLY THING WE'D HAVE TO DO WITH THE FARMER'S MARKET IN THE C TWO IS JUST REFERENCE THAT PART OF THE TOAD. YOU'RE PUTTING IT IN THE A ONE. IT'S IN THE [01:15:01] A ONE WITH THESE PROVISIONS. I UNDERSTAND. I JUST FEEL LIKE ALL THE SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS SHOULD BE IN THEIR OWN SECTION. I MEAN, EVEN IF A, A FARMER'S MARKET IN C TWO, LIKE HAS NUMBER SIX, FOR EXAMPLE, TEMPORARY STRUCTURES SHOULD BE REMOVED DURING THE HOURS OF THE MARKET'S NOT IN OPERATION. HAVING SIX IN C TWO MAKES NECESS PERFECT SENSE. YEAH. IT WAS SO REQUIRED. WHEREAS HAVING AN A ONE IS NOT AT ALL. SO THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IF WE JUST REFERENCE BACK TO A ONE, THEN WE'RE FORCED TO PUT RESTRICTIONS IN A, IN THE A ONE SECTION THAT DON'T NEED TO NECESSARILY EXIST. WHEREAS IF IT'S JUST, HEY, IF YOU HAVE A PERFORMANCE MARKET IN C TWO VERSUS IN A ONE, HERE ARE THE TWO DIFFERENT PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. WHY, WHY ARE YOU, LIKE, WHY DO YOU NOT WANT TO HAVE THEM SEPARATE? DO YOU THINK IT'LL COST CONFUSION OR IT'S INEFFICIENT? A LITTLE WASTE PAPER. I'M THE ONLY ONE TO USE PAPER. IS THERE A PARTICULAR REASON THAT YOU'RE, THAT YOU'RE WANTING TO AVOID THAT? WELL, I GUESS, I MEAN IF YOU THINK OF FARMER'S MARKET IN THE A ONE, SO, UH, IT'S 'CAUSE IT'S AGRICULTURAL PURSUIT. YEAH. BASED ON OUR DEFINITION. SO THE FARMER'S MARKET WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE IN THE A ONE, RIGHT. BASED ON OUR DEFINITIONS. YEP. SO TO ME, IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE FARMER'S MARKET, WHICH IS ALLOWED IN THE C TWO, WE JUST REFERENCE THAT PART OF THE FARMER'S MARKET, FLEA MARKET PART OF THE CODE. AND I GUESS, I MEAN JUST LOGICALLY SPEAKING, FARMER MARKET, FARMER MARKETS AND THOSE TWO DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTS YOU COULD SEE WOULD OPERATE VERY DIFFERENTLY. MM-HMM . UM, AND THAT, AND THEY DO HAVE UNDER E ONE THROUGH SIX, THEY DO IT. UH, I THINK IT PROBABLY MIGHT BE THE SAME. THE WORDING MAY BE THE SAME ON THERE. WELL, THEY HAVE A 25 FOOT ON THE SET AND BACK. THAT WHY SEEMS 50. YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. SO THEY HAVE, SO THEY HAVE A COUPLE SEPARATE PROVISIONS OF PERFORMANCE STANDARDS IN THE C TWO. SO YOU'RE WANTING THOSE TO BE ONE, ONE IN EACH, EACH DISTRICT. I LIKE, TO ME, THAT WOULD ALMOST BE BE THE EASIEST FOR PEOPLE TO DIGEST. THAT'S WHAT I THINK. MM-HMM . LIKE MAYBE FROM A PLANNING COMMISSION OR WHATEVER, WE WANNA HAVE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF UNIFORMITY. BUT ANYBODY WHO'S LOOKING AT THE CODE AND THEY GO TO THEIR, THEIR ZONE, IT'S RIGHT THERE. IT'S SELF-CONTAINED. AND IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THERE'S ENOUGH OF A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AGRICULTURAL AND COMMERCIAL FARMER'S MARKETS. YES. YOU KNOW, SPECIFICALLY, THEY'RE SMALLER. I MEAN, YOU HAVE MORE VENDORS. MORE VENDORS, THE TYPE OF PRODUCTS, THE SETBACKS, THE LEAVING THEM UP, THE CLEANLINESS FACTOR, THE NEED TO HAVE A VENDING LICENSE OR WHATEVER, I THINK IS MUCH GREATER IN THOSE AREAS THAT AREN'T APPLICABLE IN AN A ONE. I MEAN, I THINK THINGS ARE ADVANCING NOW. I MEAN USUALLY THE AGRICULTURAL PURSUIT, IF YOU'RE ON THE FARM, IF YOU'RE SELLING PRODUCTS, THEN YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE A BUNCH OF OTHER VENDORS THERE. RIGHT? EXACTLY. YOU HAVE A FEW. EXACTLY. YOU'RE DOING A PUMPKIN PATCH OR WHATEVER. YOU MAY HAVE SOME OTHER THINGS, BUT YOU'RE NOT DOING A, WELL, AN URBAN SETTING OF A FARMER'S MARKET. YEP. THEN WHEN YOU GET MORE IN A DOWNTOWN AREA, YOU HAVE MORE OF THE URBAN, WHERE YOU HAVE MORE VENDORS SELECTED DIFFERENT DOWNTOWN, IT NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP AS IF IT'S NOT EVEN THERE. YEAH. THAT'S WHY IT SEEMS LIKE IT'D BE TOTALLY APPROPRIATE TO HAVE THE SAME, EVEN IF IT SEEMS REPETITIVE. I THINK YOU PUT THE WORDING IN BOTH. PUT THE WORDING IN BOTH. AND I THINK WE'LL FIND, THEN WE'LL HAVE TO TWEAK JUST TO C TWO UNDER E. UM, I DON'T PERFORMANCE STANDARD. DON'T THINK 15 SHOULD BE UNDER AG. I THINK THAT'S FOR C TWO. YEAH. WHAT NOW? THE SIX NEEDS TO BE IN C TWO. OKAY. NOT, YOU'RE SAYING 15 NEEDS TO BE IN C TWO AND SIX NEED TO BE IN C TWO SPECIFICALLY. AND THEN THERE'S CHAPTER 73 OF TOWN CODE THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT. IT'S THE WHOLE CHAPTER OF TOWN CODE FARMER'S MARKETS. CHAPTER 73 IS FARMER'S MARKETS. THAT'S A DEFINITION OF FARMER'S MARKET. YOUR DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC PRODUCTS. COMPLIANCE WITH ZONING, WHICH THE PROVISION OF, RIGHT. SO THOSE PLANNING IONS, AGAIN, YOU TOLD ME SHOW THEY MATCH. YEAH. RIGHT. YEAH. SO THOSE DEFINITIONS AND THAT PART OF THE CODE NEED TO MATCH. OKAY. YEAH. OUR CODE. YEP. OKAY. I USE THAT FIRST PARAGRAPH. YEAH. ALRIGHT. DOES THAT MAKE, [01:20:01] OKAY, SOMEONE'S TAKING GOOD NOTES ON THIS . I'M ACTUALLY TAKING NOTES. I'LL GIVE 'EM TO YOU ALL WE NEED. I HAVE A BINDER, , SINCE YOU CITE IN THE, THAT FIRST PARAGRAPH SECTION 98 DASH 46 OF THE TOWN CODE FOR FLEA MARKETS. YOU SHOULD PROBABLY CITE THEN TO CHAPTER 73 FOR THE FARMERS MARKET. AND YOU DO THAT SECTION JUST BECAUSE IF YOU'RE TELLING 'EM THEY GOTTA COMPLY WITH ALL THOSE FOR FLEA MARKETS, YOU SHOULD REFERENCE THREE AND THEN CHAPTER NINE, SIX, YOU SAID? YEAH, YOU HAVE IT THERE. IF THAT'S THERE. I'M JUST SAYING. ALL RIGHT. MANUFACTURED HEALTH, SO SHALL BE PERMITTED ON INDIVIDUAL PARCELS IN THE ONE DISTRICT SHALL MINIMUM WIDTH OF 19 OR MORE FEET, UM, SHALL WE, SO THIS SAYS SHALL BE ATTACHED TO A PERMANENT FOUNDATION ON THE GROUND. BUT IN THE DEFINITION IT SAID IT DIDN'T NEED TO BE. YES. RIGHT. SO WE NEED TO DECIDE DO WE WANT THEM ATTACHED TO A PERMANENT FOUNDATION? UM, WHICH ONE'S YOU DONE IN THAT TWO C 2 49? SO PEOPLE UP FOR OUR DEFINITION READY OR WITH OR WITHOUT A PERMANENT FOUNDATION. SO DO WE STRIKE NUMBER TWO OR DO WE AMEND THE DEFINITION? HOLD ON A SECOND. IT SAYS WITH OR WITHOUT? WITHOUT. WITH WITHOUT. SO WOULDN'T IT MAKE SENSE THEN THAT IN CERTAIN, UH, CIRCUMSTANCES IT WOULD BE REQUIRED AND OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES IT WOULD BE OPTIONAL? I WOULD THINK IN THE A ONE, IT'S FINE TO HAVE IT ATTACHED TO A PERMANENT FOUNDATION, BUT IF IT'S IN A FLOOD AREA, THAT'S WHERE YOU WANT IT TO BE MOVEABLE. HANG ON A SECOND. THE NUMBER THREE SAYS, THE HOUSING UNIT SHALL HAVE THE APPEARANCE AND CHARACTER OF CONVENTIONAL LIKE VICTOR, SORRY, SITE BILL, BUT HOUSE I HAVE, DOES IT MATTER THAT THAT ORIGINAL DEFINITION WITH, WITH OR WITHOUT A PERMANENT FOUNDATION WHEN CONNECTED TO THE REQUIRED UTILITIES, IS THERE ANY CHANCE A MANUFACTURED HOUSE WOULDN'T BE CONNECTED TO UTILITIES IN A ONE? I MEAN, WE WOULD STILL HAVE TO NO, THEY'D HAVE TO PROVIDE UTILITIES. WE WOULDN'T CALL IT A DWELLING UNIT. YOU WOULD, AS A DWELLING UNIT, IT WOULD HAVE TO HAVE UTILITIES. I, I WOULD THINK JUST CHANGE THE SHALLOW MAY, MAY OR MAY NOT. OR SHOULD BE. MAY OR NOT MAY NOT. BECAUSE IT COULD ENCOURAGED TO BE YEAH, IT'S ENCOURAGED OR WHATEVER. 'CAUSE IT COULD, IT CAN GET SITUATION FOR IT'S BOTH. THE DEFINITION IS MORE CORRECT. I WOULD THINK THAT THE, THAT DEFINITION THAT YOU HAVE THERE, THERE MANUFACTURED HOME. I THINK I'M MISSING SOMETHING IN THIS ONE. YEAH. THERE'S UM, HAS OTHER REGULATIONS ATTACHED FOUNDATION THAT LITERALLY, RIGHT. YES. THAT'S I CALL IT. DOESN'T THAT RIGHT. SO THE MANUFACTURED HOME, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S A FLOODPLAIN DEFINITION. SO WE HAVE A, THAT'S EXCLUSIVELY FOR FLOODPLAIN. SO A MANUFACTURED HOME IS A RESIDENTIAL BUILDING BUILT IN A FACTORY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT CODE IN THE FEDERAL MANUFACTURE, HOME CONSTRUCTION AND SAFETY STANDARDS, MODULAR AND PREFABRICATED BUILDINGS THAT ARE MANUFACTURED AND CONSTRUCTION OF THE BUILDING CODES ARE NOT CONSIDERED MANUFACTURED BUILDINGS. OKAY. THEY SHOULD JUST SAY MODULAR. RIGHT. SO BY DEFINITION, SEE ONE'S BUILT UNDER THE CODE. CODE. RIGHT. AND ONE'S BUILT UNDER THE BUILDING CODE. BUT FOR US, TYPICALLY WE'RE CONCERNED WITH THE SETBACKS. RIGHT. THAT'S AND IS IT A HOUSE? RIGHT? RIGHT. BUT USE A MANUFACTURED HOME. THE HUD, THAT'S THE HUD ONE. I THINK THAT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT'S ALLOWED IN THE A ONE DISTRICT. WELL THEN DO WE NEED TO SPECIFY THAT? LIKE HUD WELL, IT'S DEFINITION, THE DEFINITION WE HAVE OF THERE THAT IS OUT THE FLOODPLAIN. OKAY. SO WE CANNOT USE THAT DEFINITION. IT'S A LITTLE COMPLICATED. THAT DEFINITION IS ONLY FOR THE FLOODPLAIN. SO THEN WHY CAN'T, WHY DON'T WE SPECIFY SOMEWHERE IN HERE THAT WE NEED TO FOLLOW? YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? BECAUSE THE FLOODPLAIN HAS THEIR OWN. AND THAT'S BECAUSE THERE, THEY WANT THE MANUFACTURED HOME TO BE PORTABLE. MM-HMM . IT CANNOT BE SECURED ON THE FOUNDATION. IT HAS TO BE ROAD READY. RIGHT. RIGHT. CAN'T BE THERE FOR 180 DAYS. 'CAUSE THEY ALSO HAVE TRAVEL TRAILERS IN THERE. BY THAT DEFINITION. UNDESERVED DEFINIT. IT'S LIKE [01:25:01] I CATCH THE SIGNAL. BUT IN THE A ONE, WE DO ALLOW MANUFACTURED HOMES, RIGHT? WE DO ALLOW MANUFACTURED HOMES, UH, SHOULD I SAY MODULAR HOMES PROBABLY SHOULD BE INSTEAD OF MANUFACTURER, WOULD YOU SAY MODULAR? WELL, NO. MANUFACTURER OR TRAILERS BASICALLY. YES. MODULAR ARE LIKE NORTH AMERICAN HOUSES. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? THE ONES THAT COME, THAT COULD COME DOWN ON THE INTERSTATE OR OFF SITE. BASICALLY TWO SECTIONS AND YOU BOLT 'EM TOGETHER, BUT THEY GO IN A PERMANENT FOUNDATION. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT THIS WAS TALKING ABOUT. LIKE WHEN I READ THIS, THAT'S INITIALLY WHAT I THOUGHT. IT'S THE HOUSES THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, COME ON A SEMI TRAILER AND YOU PIECE THEM TOGETHER. THAT WOULD BE A MODULAR. THAT'S A MODULAR, YES. AND ONE YOU SEE COMING DOWN THE INTERSTATE, AND THERE'S TWO HALVES, RIGHT? THOSE ARE MODULAR HOMES. THEY'RE BUILT TO THE STATEWIDE AND UNIFORM STATEWIDE BUILDING CODES TO DO THE INSPECTIONS ON 'EM. SO FOR OUR, FOR THE AG ZONE, SHOULD WE THINK MODULAR, COULD THE MAN A MANUFACTURED HOME COULD BE, UM, IT COULD BE A MODULAR HOME. WELL, NO, A MANUFACTURED STANDARD THAT'S A HUD STANDARD THAT WOULD BE LIKE, UH, ONE THAT'S ON A CHASSIS, RIGHT? YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, ONE THAT COMES ON HAS A CHASSIS WITH WHEELS UNDERNEATH OF IT. OKAY. THAT IS A MANUFACTURED HOME. WELL THEN IN THE USE, LET'S SAY MODULAR, WE'LL DEFINE MODULAR. I MEAN, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE WANTING, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING ON THE DESCRIPTION, ONE WITH A CHASSIS THAT HAS A CHASSIS SYSTEM, A FRAME UNDERNEATH OF IT AND WHEELS THAT YOU COULD MOVE IT. YOU, YOU USUALLY TAKE THE WHEELS OFF AND UNDERPIN IT, RIGHT? WITH UNDERPINNING WITH A SKIRT. THAT WOULD BE A MANUFACTURED HUD HOME. THE MODULAR HOME WOULD BE THE ONES THAT, UH, OAKWOOD HOMES. UH, DID YOU ORDER THEM BUILT SOMEWHERE? THEY BUILD THEM TO YOU AND THEN THEY BRING YES. THEY BRING YOU TO IT IN TWO SECTIONS OR WHATEVER THEY GET PUT TOGETHER. THEY LOOK LIKE A, THEY SHOULDN'T BE MORE AFFORDABLE. ARE THEY NOT? THEY'RE, WELL, THEY MANUFACTURE THE MANUFACTURED HOME. I THINK THEY ARE, THEY'RE UNDER CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT. WHEN THEY BUILD IT. THEY'RE NOT STICK BUILT MANUFAC. THEY, EVERYTHING'S DONE INSIDE. SO EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE THE WEATHER ON THE LUMBER AND ALL THAT. SO THEY PUT 'EM TOGETHER. SPECIFICATIONS INSIDE A BUILDING. THEY'RE TWO HALVES. THEY BRING 'EM DOWN THE INTERSTATE. YOU PUT IT ON FOUNDATION AND PUT 'EM TOGETHER. IS THERE BUILDING NECESSARILY A PROBLEM WITH ALLOWING SOMEONE WHO OWNS A FARM TO JUST HAVE A MAN HAVE A MANUFACTURED HOME OR A TRAILER? CAUSE USE THE GENERIC TERM. I MEAN, I, I'M WITH YOU. I LIKE THE IDEA OF INCLUDING MODULAR HOMES HERE. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE THAT OPTION IN THE CODE, BUT I DON'T NECESSARILY SEE A PROBLEM WITH SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO, THEY'RE COMFORTABLE LIVING, YOU KNOW, IN THIS HOME. AND, YOU KNOW, WHY NOT? WHY NOT ALLOW IT? AND WE COULD JUST, WE COULD STILL HAVE THE STANDARD OF, IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW, HOW THE APPEARANCE AND CHARACTER OF A CONVENTIONAL HOME. RIGHT. SO THAT WE DON'T, WE CAN PREVENT CERTAIN, I DON'T THINK IT'S GONE TO BE NO. I MEAN THEY ALWAYS DO LOOK LIKE TRAILERS, BUT I'VE SEEN ONES THAT LOOK REALLY NICE. SOME THE NEW ONES. YEAH. WELL, I CAN'T TELL. RIGHT. AND IF WE'RE, THIS IS, IF THIS IS FOR STUFF GOING FORWARD, THEN THIS WOULD BE THE NEWER ONES. YEAH. SO WHY NOT HAVE SOMETHING FOR MODULAR, SOMETHING FOR, FOR MANUFACTURER. THE MANUFACTURER'S JUST ENCOURAGED TO BE ATTACHED TO A PERMANENT FOUNDATION. SO IT'S NOT REQUIREMENT, BUT IS THAT, PLEASE, , WHERE ARE YOU SAYING YOU WANNA PUT MODULAR? WELL, UH, WARREN WAS SUGGESTING ADDING THAT OR HAVING THAT BE IN THE PERMITTED USES. I'M SUGGESTING IN ADDITION TO WHY SHOULD WE CARE HOW THE HOUSE IS CONSTRUCTED? I MEAN WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT IS IT ON THE RIGHT SPOT OF THE PROPERTY? DOES IT FIT THE PROPERTY HOUSE? I'M, I'M JUST SAYING THAT A ONE ALLOWS MANUFACTURED HOMES. YEAH. THAT'S THE ONLY DISTRICT THAT ALLOWS THEM A ONE IS THE ONLY DISTRICT THAT ALLOWS THEM. DOES THAT MEAN THAT A ONE DOES NOT ALLOW MODULAR HOMES? YES, BUT MODULAR HOME WOULD BE CONSIDERED LIKE A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING. JUST THAT WOULD BE A STICK BILL. OKAY. A MODULAR IS NOT ON A CHASSIS, IF YOU THINK OF IT THAT WAY. KIND OF GET BASIC HERE. OKAY. OKAY. SO, SO SOMEBODY COMES IN AND SAYS, YOU KNOW, THEY WANNA DO ONE OF THOSE MODULAR HOMES. YOU'RE STILL APPROVING THE ZONING PERMIT. IT YEAH. THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE BUILT, THEY'RE BUILT BY THE, THE, THE STATEWIDE BUILDING CODE. SO THEN WE DON'T NEED TO DIFFERENTIATE OUR MODULAR HOME AS, NO, UH, WELL, UNFORTUNATELY PEOPLE [01:30:01] THINK THEY INTERCHANGE THE, THE WORDING. THEY THINK IT'S THE SAME THING. THEY, THEY, THEY THINK A MANUFACTURED HOME IS ONE THAT'S BUILT TO THE BUILDING CODE. THEY USE THAT TERM. WHAT'S MANUFACTURED IS MANUFACTURED OFFSITE. IT'S BASED ON HOW THE BUILDING CODE IS SET UP. MM-HMM . ONE IS THAT THE HUD CODE AND ONE IS THE BUILDING CODE. MODULAR IS UNDER THE STATEWIDE BUILDING CODE. MANUFACTURED IS UNDER THE HUD CODE. BUT PEOPLE THINK ANYTHING THAT COMES DOWN THE HIGHWAY IS A MANUFACTURED HOME. AND MANUFACTURED IS A TERM ART THAT WE CAN'T CHANGE. RIGHT. WE COULDN'T, WE COULDN'T CHANGE IT TO. RIGHT. THAT'S BASED ON THE BUILDING CODE. THOSE ARE REFERENC IN THE BUILDING CODE. WE HAVE TO DO BOTH OF 'EM COME DOWN THE HIGHWAY, FOR EXAMPLE. YOU KNOW, TRANSPORT IT ON SITE, EVEN JUST FOR THE SAKE OF CLARITY. AND LIKE IN THE FUTURE, IF YOU'RE, IF IT'S SOMEBODY ELSE, YOU AND I ARE HERE. RIGHT. IF WE HAVE MODULAR IN THERE AND WE HAVE IT DEFINED, YEAH. WE COULD DEFINE IT. YES. YEAH. IT'S EASY. YEAH. ACTUALLY, IF WE, IF WE DEFINE IT, THEN ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS WE'RE IN THIS PLACE WHERE WE'RE GONNA ALLOW, WE HAVE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING TO GO, INCLUDING MODULAR HOMES. AND THAT'S, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUT ANYTHING ELSE IN THERE BECAUSE IT'S BE THE SAME STANDARDS. ASING ELSE, THE DEFINITION AND THEN CHANGE. I, WHY DON'T WE DO THAT? I MEAN, IT, IT ESSENTIALLY, I BELIEVE HANOCK, THEY ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE CONSTRUCTING MODULAR HOMES THERE. REMEMBER THEY TOLD, THEY TOLD US THEY'RE, THEY'RE BUILDING THOSE HOMES IN PANELS. THEY CONSTRUCT WALLS OFF SITE. THEY'LL BE TRUCKED IN AND THE HOUSE WILL BE PUT TOGETHER, ASSEMBLED ON SITE INSTEAD OF STICK BUILT. THAT WOULD REALLY BE A, A MODULAR HOME. 'CAUSE IT'S PRE-MANUFACTURED BY DEFINITION. IS THAT KIND OF TOO DEEP IN THE WEEDS THAT WELL, WE NEED CALLS ALL THE TIME. WHEN DO NOT BUILT ON A PERMANENT CHASSIS. THAT'S A LOGICAL HOME. HOME. NOT BUILT ON COVER. THE CHEST . OKAY. SO WE'LL DO THIS INCLUDING MODULAR HOME UNDER SINGLE FAMILY. AND WE'LL ADD A DEFINITION. WHAT WAS THE QUESTION AGAIN? A MODULAR HOME. IS A HOME NOW BUILT ON A ? NO, BECAUSE YOUR HOME, WE'LL LOOK UP THE MODULE. WE'LL LOOK AT THE INTERNATIONAL ZONING CODE AND SEE WHAT BUILDING CODE WE NEED THAT DEFINITION. I DON'T, MINE'S SHORT AND SWEET AND KIND OF CUT THROUGH EVERYTHING. I THINK WE JUST GO THERE. YEAH. YOU DON'T GET GEORGIA HOME, UM, WITH MANUFACTURER. TELL , UH, WITH MANUFACTURED HOUSING. I DO HAVE A QUESTION. WE OF COURSE HAVE THE MINIMUM FOR THE WIDTH OF 19 FEET. DO WE WANT TO, UH, HAVE A MINIMUM FOR THE DEPTH OR DOES IT MATTER HOW LONG? IT'S LIKE A 60 FOOT? WELL, YEAH, I MEAN YOU HAVE WIDTH AND YOU HAVE DEPTHS, RIGHT? OH, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. OH, WIDTH. WELL, STORY OF HEIGHT AND LENGTH. LENGTH, DEPTH. YES. I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I MEAN, WHY ARE WE, AS LONG AS IT'S AT LEAST 600 SQUARE FEET, WHY DO WE CARE HOW WIDE IT'S, I IT LIKE FOR MANUFACTURED HOMES, IT FEELS LIKE THAT. I DON'T KNOW WHY THAT SOUNDS FAMILIAR TO ME. THEY'RE GONNA BE STANDARD DIMENSIONS. LIKE THEY'RE GONNA HAVE, THEY'RE GONNA BE PRETTY DARN STANDARD DIMENSIONS. THEY'RE ALL THE SAME, BASICALLY. WELL, THE ONE WHERE DID WE SEE, WHERE'S THAT AT? ON? YEAH. I THINK PROBABLY THOSE COULD, THAT MANUFACTURED HOME. THERE COULD JUST BE ONE UNIT. COULD IT? IT JUST COULD BE LIKE A RANCH STYLE HOME. ONLY 1, 1 1 UNIT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY COME IN SEPARATE PARTS. I'M JUST WONDERING IF WE'D HAVE, MAYBE WE CAN REFERENCE THE DI UH, WE'LL HAVE TO LOOK ON THE DEFINITION OF MANUFACTURED HOUSING AND SEE IF THERE'S THAT DISTANCE HAS CHANGED OR SOMETHING. I'M NOT PART TOO MUCH ON THE BUILDING CODE, BUT WE CAN LOOK THAT UP. THIS IS SO MUCH FUN. . QUITE WAY MORE FUN. IF WE HAD SOME WINE AND SOME TREATS. NEXT TIME. MAYBE WE'LL BRING SOME WAIT, WHO TALK? WHO DID LAVENDER CAKE AND DIDN'T TELL ME ABOUT IT? [01:35:01] HE DIDN'T ROSE ROSEMARY. I WAS LIKE ROSEMARY. SORRY. NOT ROSEMARY. ROSEMARY. THAT MY FAULT. INTERESTING. HAD I KNOWN THIS WOULD BE THIS PAINFUL, I WOULD'VE BROUGHT, I WOULD'VE DOUBT I DIDN'T ANTICIPATE THIS MUCH. UM, GNASHING OF TEETH. ANTICIPATE IT FOR NOVEMBER. ATE FOR NOVEMBER. ALRIGHT, JUST FOR GRAMS. WE WORK ON THIS. LIKE I HAD IT. I'M DONE. THE CAKE. SO MANUFACTURE, WHY DON'T WE JUST STRIKE ONE. LEAVE THE REST. YEP. UM, AND GO TO SECTION D. YEP. I LIKE THAT. SO COMMERCIAL, OUTDOOR RECREATION, HOSPITALS, SCHOOLS AND CHURCHES. WE'RE MISSING A LOT OF THOSE DEFINITIONS, RIGHT? I CAN, WE DON'T HAVE OUTDOOR, BUT HOSPITAL SCHOOLS, CHURCHES WE DON'T. WE DO HAVE THAT. SO MINIMUM 50% OF THE AREA DEFINITION CODE SPACE. OKAY. UM, NOW ARE WE GOING TO DEFINE THAT OUTDOOR COMMERCIAL RECREATION? WE DO NEED TO ADD A DEFINITION FOR THAT. WE NEED TO DEFINE AMPHITHEATER STADIUM. MM-HMM . STADIUM. WE NEED TO FIND . UH, WHAT YOU THINK OF THE 2,500 PERSON? UH, WELL, IT SAYS ONLY BY OH BY AND YEAH, TURN OFF THE LIGHT. SO DURING THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, WE WOULD TAKE IT OUT TO ENERGY SERVICES ANYWAYS. MM-HMM . AND TELL THEM SPECIFICALLY COMMENT ON WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS NIGHT OR DARK SKY COMPLIANT. UM, WELL, I MEAN, A, A STADIUM BY ITS VERY USE IN NATURE WOULD NOT BE DARK SKY COMPLIANT UNLESS IT HAD LIKE A, UNLESS WE HAD WITH A JONES. YEAH. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOU'D MAKE A STADIUM DARK SIDE. DARK SKY COMPLIANT. IT DOESN'T SAY DARK SKY COMPLIANT. THERAPIST IS NICE SKY, MINIMIZE LIGHT GLARE. MILWAUKEE. MINIMIZE GLARE. WELL, THAT'S THAT THEY CAN DO. BUT SO MILWAUKEE DIDN'T HAVE A, THAT HAS A ROOF THAT GOES UP. OH, IT'S COLD, RIGHT? YOU GET FRONT, YEAH. GET FRONT ROW TO BUILD A STADIUM WITH A RETRACTABLE ROOF. AND JUST THAT CAMPGROUNDS COMPLY WITH BDH. UM, DO A REVIEW ANYWAY. MY ONLY REQUEST WOULD BE WITH NUMBER FIVE. IF WE COULD REMOVE THE DOUBLE NEGATIVE. IN NO CIRCUMSTANCE SHALL A CAMPGROUND NOT BE PROVIDED WITH YEAH. EXCEPT IN EVERY CIRCUMSTANCE A CAMP CAMPGROUND SHALL PROVIDE. YES. YES, YES. WE HAVE A DEFINITION OF CAMPGROUND. NO, YOU DON'T HAVE THE DEFINITION OF . NOPE. WELL, I MEAN, WE, HOW MANY YEARS THIS NOT IN OUR CODE. WE THEN WE HAVE TO REFERENCE AROUND HERE. THEN WE HAVE TO REFERENCE ANOTHER ZONING, UH, BOOK TO GET THE CODE. IT'D BE NICE TO BE IN OUR CODE, BUT YEAH, IT WOULD BE NICE. ALL RIGHT. SO THEN THE HOURS OF OPERATION WOULD BE FINE, BUT ESPECIALLY, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S FINE. AND THEN PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR URBAN AGRICULTURE. I'M A LITTLE WORRIED THAT YOU SPEND THE WHOLE NIGHT JUST ON THIS. UM, IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH IT, THIS HAS BEEN WORKING. YOU LET STAFF MAKE THE CHANGES, MAKE THIS IN COMPLIANCE WITH TOWN CODE CHAPTER 66, AND THEN MOVE THIS TO THE BACK SUPPLEMENTAL PROVISIONS WHERE I THINK IT BELONGS NOT IN THE AG. ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT? I'M OKAY. WHY? WHY DO YOU THINK IT DOESN'T BELONG WITH THE AG? BECAUSE IN THE CULTURAL DISTRICT, YOU DON'T REALLY NEED THESE. OKAY. YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU'RE NOT GONNA TELL SOMEONE ON A 10 ACRE PARCEL. THEY CAN ONLY HAVE SIX FEMALE CHECK-IN. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. SORRY. NO, IT'S, I WAS JUST SCROLLING THROUGH GOING, OH MAN. YEAH. THAT'S NOT, THAT'S, THAT'S INTENDED FOR OTHER THAN AGRICULTURAL USES. OKAY. GOTCHA. OR DISTRICTS. DISTRICT DISTRICTS. OKAY. OKAY. MM-HMM . OKAY. I SEE. I SEE. GOT THIS. WELL, AND THE TIME CODE ALREADY HAS [01:40:01] WE LISTED THAT? SO I HAVE, WE ALREADY GOT THE ONE, UH, QUESTION THAT I HAVE WHEN IT COMES TO URBAN AG, UH, THAT I REMEMBER WONDERING ABOUT WAY BACK WHEN I APPROACH BROUGHT THIS IS, OH, HARVESTING A HONEY SHALL TAKE PLACE WITHIN AN ENCLOSED BUILDING. THAT SEEMS, I MEAN, MAYBE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU HARVEST HONEY. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO THAT INSIDE AT ALL. LIKE, WHAT DO YOU DO? PICK PUT THE ENTIRE HIVE TRAUMATIZE THEM. YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T HARVEST HONEY INDOORS. 'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO SMOKE AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GET YOUR, IS THAT THE HARVESTING? HARVESTING, YEAH. BUT YEAH, I GUESS THE SMOKE, I, I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER HOW MY BROTHER-IN-LAW DOES IT. AND I JUST FEEL LIKE SEEING THE DRAWERS IN HIS HOUSE AND I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T REMEMBER HOW HE TOOK ME, BUT I REMEMBER THEN, THEN ALL GOING INTO CENTRIFUGE. AND SO OFTEN WHAT'LL HAPPEN AT FIRST, YOU PULL OUT THE, THE HIVE CONE. WE PROBABLY NEED SCRAPE IT OFF A DOOR BUCKET, PUT IT BACK, YOU CLEAN OUT WHEN YOU SEE CLEAN AND PUT IT BACK. OKAY. UM, AND THAT, I SUPPOSE COULD BE DONE INSIDE, BUT THAT WOULD BE A MATTER OF TAKING OUT ALL THOSE ROCKS. BRINGING 'EM INSIDE. YEAH. ACROSS YOUR WHOLE HOUSE. RIGHT. I, I JUST THINK THE IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, REQUIRING THAT IT'S INSIDE. JOHN, DO YOU KNOW YOU'RE A FARMER? I I'M, I'M ASSUMING THE CAUSE YOU HAVE BEES IN AN URBAN SETTING IN TOWN. OH, SO YOU MAKE THEM ANGRY WHEN HE'S STILL THERE, HONEY? NO, BECAUSE YOU, YOU, YOU KNOCK THEM OUT FIRST. YOU SMOKE. I, I THINK I, I, I DON'T KNOW THIS, BUT I'M ASSUMING THAT'S WHY THEY WANT THE, THE HONEY HARVESTING INSIDE A BUILDING AND SORT OF OUT IN THE PUBLIC IF THE, INSTEAD OF IN YOUR BACKYARD AND WITH THE BES AND EVERYTHING. BUT THAT'S, THAT'S THE ISN'T ING IT BECAUSE WELL, YOU CAN'T CARRY THE, THE RACK. WE WE'LL INTO YOUR BASEMENT. WE'LL RESEARCH TO THE, AND THEN WE'LL GET BACK TOLL. WE'LL REACH OUT TO THE EXTENSION AGENTS THAT, THAT'D PROBABLY BE THE BEST, UH, SIT DOWN TIME BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE, YOU KNOW, SETBACKS FOR THE BEEHIVES. MM-HMM . BEING AWAY FROM PROPERTY LINES. SO, AND WE CAN LOOK THAT THERE. WE CAN ALSO SEE IF THAT NEEDS, UH, LOOKED AT. YEAH. I MEAN I KNOW THAT IN THE URBAN, MORE URBAN SECTIONS, WHERE'RE BE LOOKING AT SETBACKS A LOT ANYWAY, SO WOULD YES. IT BE POTENTIALLY PROHIBITIVE TO HAVE, I DON'T KNOW. YOU GET YOUR PET PIGS CONSIDER KIDS. NO PIGS. NO GOATS. NO PIGS. NO COWS. NO LITTLE ONES LIKE THIS BIG. NOPE. YOU HAVE ANYBODY NAME WITH JUMPING GOATS? TINY LITTLE JUMPING BOAT. FAINTING ONES. THEY'RE CUTE, BUT NO, SO CUTE. UM, DO WE HAVE A, A STATE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT? A RESIDENTIAL ESTATE? SO RE UM, YEAH, TO SAY PROPERTY IS RESIDENTIAL RE OH, THAT'S ACTUALLY SIGNIFICANT. THAT'S EVERYTHING HERE AND EVERYTHING HERE. OH, WOW. AND THOSE ARE ACTUALLY PART OF OUR URBAN GROWTH AREA. SO THOSE LIKE SAYER PROPERTY AND ROCK LEDGE DEVELOPMENT NEXT TO IT. THAT'S URBAN GROWTH AREAS. THAT'S WHERE THE TOWN IS SUPPOSED TO BE CHANNELING DEVELOPMENT. OH WOW. BUT THE ONLY ENTRANCE IS, UH, MARY SHEDI LANE, WHICH IS A PRIVATE YEAH, YEAH. UM, AND SHENANDOAH SHORE. WELL, SHENANDOAH SHORE IS ACCESS LIKE SHORE. THERE CAN, BUT, UM, ROCK LEDGE IS A LITTLE LAND OVER THERE. WE'RE BACK TO THE MISSING ROAD. THAT EAST WEST CONNECTOR HIT NANCY DREW ON THAT. THAT'D BE HARD WITH THAT, WITH THOSE TRAINS THERE. UNLESS THERE'S A WAY THAT WHEN THEY STOP THERE, THAT'S WHEN MY FOLKS WERE IN FRONT OF YOUR PROPERTY, THEY THOUGHT ABOUT GOING OVER THERE AND THEN WAIT, WHAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS? YEAH. STUCK BEHIND. YOU'RE STUCK. I WAS HEARING YESTERDAY, AND THIS IS OFFICE SUBJECT, BUT APROPOS THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR, I WAS HEARING YESTERDAY THAT THERE WAS AN IDEA THAT HAD BEEN TALKED ABOUT THE COUNTY, BUT NEVER GOT TO US TO TAKE THIS ROAD AND EXTEND IT OUT UNTIL IT CONNECTS WITH DISBEL HOLLOW AND THAT THAT WOULD BE A WAY TO AVOID A RAILROAD TRACK. I'VE HEARD OF THAT TOO, BUT I BELIEVE THERE'S PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT HAVE SAID ABSOLUTELY WRONG. YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T KNOW. I I I HAD NEVER HEARD ABOUT IT. WE, WE NEVER, WE NEVER TALKED ABOUT IT BEFORE. BUT ANYHOW, OFF THE SUBJECT, MY APOLOGIES. JUST A LITTLE BRAIN REFRESHER. THAT'S FINE. UM, WE'LL TRY TO GO THROUGH THESE A LITTLE FASTER. I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE AS MANY, UM, PERFORMANCE OFFENDERS. DO WE HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH THE STATEMENT OF INTENT FOR THE RESIDENTIAL ESTATE? CORRECT. EXECUTIVE STYLE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT. SO THESE ARE BASICALLY AT A DENSITY OF ONE DWELLING UNIT. SO ONE SINGLE, ONE DWELLING UNIT PER ACRE. [01:45:01] AND ALL WE ALLOW HERE ARE A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING FIRES. MM-HMM . IS EVERYBODY COMFORTABLE WITH THAT MOBILE HOME? DO WE WANNA SAY MOBILE HOMES OR DO WE WANT CALL 'EM SOMETHING ELSE? WE CAN SAY INCLUDING MODULAR. I MEAN, WE CAN BE TALKING. OH, THIS IS AT THE, THE BOTTOM OF THE STATEMENT OF INTENTION. 6, 2, 1. SO ANY SIGN REQUIRES A ZONING PERMIT. THAT'S WHY. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT THAT WAS. JUST ADD, THERE'S A WHOLE CHAPTER ON SIGNS. YES. YEAH. RIGHT. WHERE TALKING ABOUT SIGNS. I WAS AT 6.2 0.1. WHAT ARE SIGNS? SO MOBILE HOMES OR ROOMING HOUSES ARE OH, SO YOU'RE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE STATEMENT OF INTENT. WELL, YEAH. I, I MEAN, MOBILE HOMES, WE HAVEN'T WE GOTTEN RID OF THAT PHRASE AND PLACE MODULAR OR SO IN THE STATEMENT OF INTENT, THE LAST SENTENCE SAYS, MOBILE HOMES ARE ROOMING, HOUSES ARE PROHIBITED. I WAS PROHIBITING THEM, BUT WE DON'T WANT, HAVEN'T WE CHANGE THE TERM AWAY FROM MOBILE HOMES? MOBILE MANUFACTURING MANUFACTURER'S WHERE I WAS WEARING A SUIT. WEARING A SUIT. YEAH. BOW TIE VERSUS DEVELOPMENT IS THEREFORE LIMITED TO EXECUTIVE STYLE CONCENTRATION AND PERMITTED USES ARE LIMITED TO SINGLE FAMILY UNIT DWELLING. UM, SO THESE ARE ONE DWELLING UNIT PER ACRE. SO THESE ARE FAIRLY LARGE LOTS. YEAH. AND, AND OUR ACCESSORIES OF ABUS ARE FINE. YEAH. THEY WOULD FIT WELL. YEAH, NO, THAT WOULD WORK GREAT ON THIS. YEAH, THEY WOULD. YEAH. AND THEN SPECIAL USE PERMIT. THERE'S NO OTHER RESIDENTIAL, UM, THE PERMITTED DAYCARE. OH, IT'S, I MEAN I'M, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SPEED, I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE PERSONALLY WITH THE AREA IN FRONTAGE, SETBACKS, YARDS LOT COVERAGE. UM, FOUR STORIES, BUT NOT EXCEED 55 FEET HEIGHT WITH ACCESSORY BUILDINGS NOT BEING ALLOWED TO BE MORE THAN TWO STORIES HIGH. I'M ASSUMING THAT WOULD INCLUDE OUR ADUS HERE. YEP. OKAY. COULD A CHURCH VEHICLE? WELL, IT WOULDN'T BE, YOU COULD HAVE A GARAGE WITH AN A DU ON CHURCH. SO THAT ACCESSORY BUILDING IS DIFFERENT THAN AN A DU. YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. WE, WE, WE BROUGHT THAT DEFINITION INTO THE TWO PIECES. ALRIGHT, SO THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S FOR, THAT'S NOW JUST MAINLY FOR ANY, ANYTHING ELSE BESIDES A, A DWELLING. RIGHT. BUT THERE'S NOTHING TO PREVENT AN A DU FROM BEING TWO STORIES WE WANT TO DO. NO, WE DON'T WITH THAT. UH, IN THE USE TO PERMITTED BY. RIGHT. WOULD WE WANT TO CONSIDER ADDING A CHURCH UNDER ORGANIZATION? THE ONLY THING YOU HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING EXCEPT FOR, UH, SPECIAL HOSPITALS OR ANYTHING THERE. WHAT'S WRONG? WE HAVE A, WE HAVE A LOCATION FOR A HOSPITAL IN TOWN. OKAY. SO IF YOU DON'T EVEN WANT ANYTHING LIKE, SORRY, PERMITTED BY A RIGHT. THIS IS REALLY FOR THIS LARGE LOT SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT. WE'RE LOOKING AT EXECUTIVE STYLE. THIS IS WHAT, WHAT ARE SPECIAL CHILD? WHAT DOES SPECIAL CHILDCARE SERVICES MEAN? THAT'S, IT'S, I DON'T, SORRY. KNOW YOU DROP YOUR KIDS OFF WHEN YOU GO TO WORK, THERE'S SPECIAL CHILDCARE. RIGHT. DAYCARE IS ITS OWN ENTITY. RIGHT. THE INITIAL CHILDCARE SERVICES THAT'S DEFINED. OKAY. WHEN WAS IT DEFINED? UM, ONE OF THE FOLLOWING TYPES OF DAYCARE, A LICENSED SUMMER CAMP UNDER VIRGINIA CODE SECTION 35 1 1. A PUBLIC SCHOOL. [01:50:01] A PRIVATE SCHOOL, NOT, NOT OPERATING AS A CHILDCARE CENTER OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF REGULAR CLASSES. A FACILITY OPERATED BY A HOSPITAL ON THE HOSPITAL PREMISES PROVIDING CARE TO CHILDREN OF HOSPITAL EMPLOYEES WHILE THE EMPLOYEES ARE ENGAGED IN PERFORMANCE OF WORK. A SUNDAY SCHOOL CONDUCTED BY CHURCH RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION WHERE A DAYCARE FACILITY OPERATED BY A CHURCH RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION WHERE THE CHILDREN ARE CARED FOR DURING SHORT PERIODS OF TIME WHILE THE PERSON'S RESPONSIBLE FOR SUCH CHILDREN ARE ATTENDING RELIGIOUS SERVICES. HMM. THAT'S TOO MUCH. THAT'S SPECIAL. THAT MEANS THAT WE NEED TO, THAT'S SPECIAL CHILDCARE SERVICES AND THAT'S NOT GONNA BE ON MONDAY. THEN WHY WOULDN'T WE JUST LIST OUT SUMMER CAMP AS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT? WELL, IT'S ALL, IT'S ALL UNDER THE, HOW ARE WE GONNA HAVE A HOSPITAL DAYCARE IF WE DON'T COME IN HOSPITALS? WELL, IT'S UNDER THE DEFINITION OF SPECIAL CHILDCARE SERVICES BASED ON THE STATE DOESN'T MEAN THAT EVERYTHING, THAT DEFINITION NECESSARILY PASSPORT THERE. YEAH. OKAY. YOU COULD DO A DEFINITION, YOU COULD DO A SUMMER CAMP DEFINITION FOR BASED ON VIRGINIA CODE. UM, SO IT'S NOT JUST A DAYCARE. UH, I GUESS THAT'S WHY WE LABELED, LABELED AS SPECIAL. YEAH. WELL, BASED ON YOUR EXPLANATION, I'LL, I'LL BE QUIET. I I LIKE IT. BUT JOHN IS ABOUT RIGHT. IT IS ABOUT RIGHT. YEAH. IT'S, IT IS, IT'S NOT JUST A DAYCARE SERVICE. SO IF WE'RE DEFINITION THEN THE CHURCH COULD HAVE A SEPARATE BUILDING THAT WOULD BE A SPECIAL CHILDCARE. POTENTIALLY. POTENTIALLY, YEAH. I MEAN, BY DEFINITION I JUST, BUT ONLY ABILITY TO REQUIRE A DAYCARE, A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THE DAYCARE, BUT NOT FOR SPECIAL CHILDCARE SERVICES. WHICH SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE MORE INTENT. LIKE A SUMMER CAMP IS GONNA BE MORE INTENSIVE USE POTENTIALLY THAN JUST A DAYCARE WHERE YOU'RE DROPPING OFF FOR A COUPLE HOURS AND MOVING. WELL, LIKE WHEN MY KIDS GO TO SUMMER CAMP, THEY'RE GONE FOR A WEEK. THEY'RE IN BIG DAY CAMP. BUT STILL THEY CAN BE PART OF MAKE WELL, I MEAN JUST BECAUSE THE LOT SIZE MINIMUM WOULD BE AN ACRE. I MEAN, NO SELF-RESPECT DAY OR SUMMER CAMP WOULD ONLY HAVE AN ACRE. THAT USE SEEMS LIKE IT NEEDS TO BE AN AG. NOT THE, THE IDEA IS A EXECUTIVE STYLE HOMES, YOU GONNA BE OUT ON YOUR PROPERTY ENJOYING IT. AND THEN THERE'S KIDS PLAYING SOCCER LIKE, I DON'T KNOW NO , BUT I'D HAVE TO LOOK UNDER VIRGINIA CODE SECTION 35 1 DASH ONE. I DON'T, THIS IS APPROPRIATE. WELL, YOU COULD HAVE A PUBLIC SCHOOL THERE. THERE'S A LOT OF SCHOOLS THAT YOU HAVE FOR WARREN COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS IS LOOKING TO BUILD AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL OFF. THEY WANT ANOTHER SCHOOL. THEY DON'T WANT MONEY. THAT THEY DON'T WANT MORE THAN, DON'T WANT MONEY FOR THAT. NO, THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY FOR IT. BUT THEY KEEP SAYING THAT THEY WANNA BUILD FLYING IN THE FACE OF THE NATIONAL DEMOGRAPHICS, WHICH WERE FEWER, WERE BABIES ARE MEETING BOYS. NOBODY. THAT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN LONG DAY FOR ME TO BEEN, I KNOW G AND ALL THIS OTHER STUFF SLAPPED. HE'S OUT OF HIS HEAD TONIGHT. IGNORE . I MEAN, I THINK IF WE, WE MAYBE NEED TO LOOK AT PUTTING SPOKES IN HERE THEN. WELL, I THINK WELL THAT WOULD JUST, THAT WOULD UH, BE DISPARATE TO THE STATEMENT OF INTENT THOUGH, WOULD IT NOT? YEAH. UNDER SPECIAL CHILDCARE SERVICES. IT DOES SAY PUBLIC SCHOOL. YEAH. YEAH. I MEAN HERE IT A, LIKE THE VERY FIRST SENTENCE OF THIS INTENT COMPOSED A QUIET, VERY LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL AREAS ON A STATE SIZE LOTS. IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THIS IS APPROPRIATE AREA FOR A SCHOOL OR FOR SPECIAL CHILD CARE SERVICES. I CAN UNDERSTAND THE DAYCARE BECAUSE THAT'S, SO YOU'RE PRIMARILY CONTAINED, BUT, AND THAT MEANS THAT WE HAVE ALREADY ALLOWED. SO WHY DON'T WE JUST DELETE SPECIAL CHILDCARE SERVICES? WHY DO WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT THERE? I CAN, I I THINK SPECIAL CHILDCARE SERVICES WOULD BE BETTER IN THE, AND IT'S IN THE AG. YEAH, IT IS. ALL RIGHT. WHAT ARE PUBLIC FACILITIES? UM, IT'S UNDER, UM, THAT A PUBLIC PARK. IS THAT A SCHOOL? IS THAT COULD BE A CAR COULD BE A PRETTY BROAD DEFINITION. [01:55:01] YEAH, IT'S, I DON'T KNOW. BUT WE DO PARK SEPARATELY IN, IN THE TOWN OF NEW MANAGING PARKS EXCEPT ONE. THAT'S THE CHURCH. WE WE'RE SPECIAL CHILDCARE SERVICES. WHAT DISTRICTS ARE THOSE OF PERMITTED IN? THAT'S WITHOUT LOOKING REAL QUICK. SECOND. OKAY. SO NOW WE LOOK FOR CHILDCARE. SPECIAL CHILD CARE SERVICES. THERE IT IS. IT'S SHOW AND MISCELLANEOUS. UM, IT'S . OH, IT'S EVERYWHERE. YEAH. IS THERE SOMETHING IN STATE CODE THAT WE'RE MISSING? THAT'S WHAT I'M, THAT'S WHAT I'M WONDERING. 'CAUSE IT REFERENCED THE STATE CODE ALL. WELL WE NEED, THEY MAY HAVE NO CHOICE OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. 3 5, 1 1. AND WE'RE GONNA NEED TO COME BACK TO THAT ONE THEN. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WOULD, I WOULD RIGHT. IT SAYS RIGHT THERE THAT 3 5 1 1, THAT MAY BE A ONE OF THOSE REFERENCES. WERE YOU WHERE OUR HANDS ARE TIED. THEY HAVE TO BE PERMITTED. OKAY. YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? LIKE THE, UH, YEAH. TOWN SHALL . DID YOU HAVE THE DEFINITION OF CAMPGROUND? JUST USE THAT. I, UM, YEAH, I DON'T, THAT MAY BE ONE OF THOSE RIGHTS THAT LIKE, UH, THOSE GROUP HOMES. YEAH. OKAY. SHALL CONSIDER ALL ZONING DISTRICTS. UH, I'LL SAY WHEN IT COMES TO 6.2 0.4 FOR ALL HOMES AND SALES OFFICES, EVERYTHING ON THIS LOOKS EXACTLY RIGHT. IN MY OPINION. UH, MY HISTORY IS NEW HOME SALES. SO I'M USED TO WORKING ON MODEL HOMES AND THIS IS RIGHT IN LINE WITH EVERYTHING ELSE BUT MY OLD COMPANY HAVE TO DO OKAY. SECTION. YEAH, IT'S BASICALLY A COPY PASTE. HOPING ANYTIME WE SEE HOMES, WE'RE LIKE, WE MOVE ON. WE AGREE ON THAT. WE AGREE. JUST DEPENDS HOW MUCH Y'ALL WANNA, WE STILL HAVE THAT RULE. , WE'RE ALMOST AT RS. YEAH. SO WE CAN JUST FINISH ALREADY, I THINK AT LEAST. YEAH, I'D SAY, I MEAN WE CAN PROBABLY GET THROUGH RS AND I MEAN WITH LIKE THE R ONE, R TWO, R THREE, THE MAIN DIFFERENCES HERE IS LOOKING AT THE DENSITY OF IT. SO IT'S GOING FROM ONE DWELLING UNIT PER ACRE IN THE RE THEN DOWN TO RS, I BELIEVE IT'S LIKE TWO DWELLING UNITS. SO YOU'VE GOT HALF FOR LOCK. AND THEN AS YOU START GOING INTO R ONE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT 10,000. MM-HMM. R ONE A I THINK IS WHAT, SIX. UH, SO IT'S JUST, I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN I WAS REPORTED REVIEWING A LOT OF THESE CHANGES BACK WHEN, AND I WAS SEEING HOW WE WERE SLASHING SO MANY OF THESE SETBACKS AND HAPPEN IT COMES LIKE R TWO, R THREE. YEAH. AND JUST CUTTING IT DOWN. UM, I'M GONNA BE ASKING FOR A LOT OF UNDERSTANDING EXPLANATION, LIKE WHY ARE WE DOING THESE THINGS THAT WAY? I'LL GIVE YOU THE WHY. IT IS ACTUALLY, SO WHEN WE WERE, I WAS WORKING WITH THE, UM, CONSULTANT AND WE DID A GIS ANALYSIS OF LIKE THE EXISTING PARCELS IN TOWN. WE LOOKED AT THE REQUIRED MINIMUM LOT SIZES. UM, AND STARTED REALIZING THAT IN SOME OF THESE ZONES, THE, THE EXISTING LOTS THAT ARE HERE, LIKE THE INPUT LOTS, EITHER DON'T MEET THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE OR IF THEY DID, THERE'S SOMETHING WEIRD OR WONKY WITH THEM. WHERE WITH THE SETBACKS, THEY'RE BASICALLY LIKE UNBUILDING. SO THE THOUGHT WAS IS CUT THE SETBACKS IN HALF. THAT WAY YOU CAN MAKE SOME OF THESE BUILDABLE OR UM, JUST ENCOURAGE INFILL DEVELOPMENT, WHICH IS, SO IT WAS JUST A SIMPLE LIKE, OKAY, HOW DO WE HAVE SOME BASIS OR SOME METRICS TO SAY WHAT THESE SETBACKS SHOULD BE. I WAS JUST SEEING 10 TURN INTO FIVE AND GOING, WHOA, . YEAH. OKAY. IT'S A GOOD WAY TO ACCOMMODATE FOR FREE ZONING, CONSTRUCTION AND LOT SIZE. YEAH. YEAH. AND I DON'T KNOW, PART OF ME JUST WANTS TO HAVE A BIT OF A CONCERN OR WORRY AS WELL ABOUT BECOMING TOO DENSE. AND THEN THERE'S A WHOLE OTHER SET OF ISSUES THAT COMES WITH THAT. [02:00:02] AND I THINK, I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, THE ACTUAL DISTRICTS, I MEAN THE R THREE IS, I THINK IT'S ON THE SMALLER ENDS AS FAR AS YEAH. YEAH. THERE'S NOT A LOT OF R LET'S SEE, OR THREE BE ORANGE. SO IT'S ACTUALLY, IT'S NOT INSIGNIFICANT AND IT'S UP ON THE NORTHERN SIDE, BUT IT'S, THOSE ARE MOSTLY DEVELOPED IS ALL R THREE. R THREE IS MOSTLY BUILT OUT. S RS RS IS THE DARK GREEN RESIDENTIAL SUBURBAN? YEAH. THE DARK GREEN. EITHER. EITHER HALF OR LODGE. YEAH. WELL, DIDN'T WE RAISE ON THAT? YEAH. YEAH. THIS IS NOT ACCURATE. THAT'S NOT THE LATEST MAP. OH, NO, NO. OF COURSE. YEAH. BUT I'M JUST SAYING LIKE THIS AREA RIGHT HERE, UM, THAT'S SQUIRREL HILL, I THINK. MM-HMM . UH, MARSHALL'S. GLEN. MARSHALLS GLEN. RIGHT. OKAY. WHAT WAS THAT? REZONED OUT? R ONE. R ONE. NOT ALL THAT GREEN. THERE'S A COUPLE PARCELS IN THERE. MOSTLY. YEAH. THE SECTION OF THAT, UM, ON RE DOES IT, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS OR ISSUES WHEN IT COMES TO THE HEIGHT OR THE CORNER? LOTS. ANYTHING OF THE NUMBERS THAT ARE IN THERE? NOT FOR LOCK. I JUST WANNA BE ABLE TO STAND TO MYSELF. MAX COVERS 12%, LOTS OF GREEN. DO WE WANT TO FINISH HERE OR WE GOING, DO WE WANNA KEEP GOING INTO RS? WHO HAS ENERGY TO GO ON THEIR OWN? I DON'T THINK RS WILL TAKE A HOLD. NO, I DON'T THINK IT'LL TAKE, I THINK THIS WE'RE DOING REPETITIVENESS TO SOME DEGREE. YES. THIS IS GETTING EASIER RS. UM, OF COURSE THE WORD MOBILE WOULD NEED TO BE CHANGED TO MANUFACTURER AND THE STATEMENT OF INTENT, EVERYTHING ELSE IS BASICALLY FINE. I'M RS SO I HAVE TO MAKE SURE THIS IS REALLY FINE. UM, DID YOU SEE THAT? OH YEAH. MOBILE HOMES. SO IN MOST OF THE STATEMENT OF INTENT, THE VERY LAST SENTENCE SAYS MOBILE HOMES ARE PROHIBITED. UM, AND JUST, I THINK THIS IS OKAY, BUT LAUREN, YOU AND I WERE LOOKING AT THAT. WE WERE SAYING , THERE'S SOME VARIATION TO THAT SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS, DETACHED. MM-HMM . UM, WHATEVER IT IS, LIKE THE CONSISTENCY. BUT WE CAN LOOK AT THAT. OKAY. AND SO, SO IN THIS ZONE YOU'VE GOT BED AND BREAKFAST AS A, YOU'VE GOT, YOU'RE STARTING TO INTRODUCE COMMERCIAL USES INTO IT. YEAH, THIS HAS THE CHURCHES, THE PUBLIC LIBRARIES, THE SCHOOLS. WE ARE ADDING CHURCHES TO OUR REI MEAN, UM, WE'RE GONNA ADD CHURCHES TO OUR E AND THEN RS, IT'S IN HERE. SPECIAL USE PERMIT. AND I GUESS IT WOULD DEPEND ON, I GUESS IT'S BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE A CHURCH. YEAH. IT'S, COULD BE A LOT OF IT DEPENDS. IT DEPENDS. YEAH. AND AT THAT POINT IT'S SAFER TO DO THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT. IT. YEAH. WE HAVE TO SAY PUBLIC TO MODIFY LIBRARIES. WE JUST SAY LIBRARIES. WELL, PUBLIC ONE IS OPEN TO EVERYBODY IN PRIVATE. RIGHT. BUT IT'S THE SAME BUILDING. WELL, I MEAN, I GUESS THE IDEA IS THAT ANYONE COULD HAVE A PRIVATE LIBRARY BECAUSE IT IS JUST YOU'RE USING YOUR PROPERTY TO, EXCEPT IF YOU HAVE TO BUILD A SEPARATE STRUCTURE. WELL, IT'S AN ACCESSORY USE AND IF YOU START HAVING A LOT OF PEOPLE COMING TO YOUR HOUSE AND YOUR NEIGHBORS, BUT I MEAN, THERE ARE ACCESS THINGS AS PRIVATE LIBRARIES. YEAH. AND SO YOU'RE JUST SAYING JUST HANG OUT THE WORD PUBLIC. YES. THAT'S WHAT THE LIBRARIES WILL COVER. BOTH PUBLIC AND PRIVATE. THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING. I MEAN REALLY MAKING THOSE BE SPECIALLY USED PERMIT ANYWAY. YEAH, THAT'S FINE. AND THEN IT'S THE SAME MODEL. HOME SALES OFFICES. UM, I'M GONNA ASK A QUESTION. BRIEF ANSWER. DON'T INDULGE ME. , UH, LIKE, UM, FOR, FOR COMMERCIAL STUFF, YOU WOULDN'T ALLOW A LITTLE GROCERY STORE IN. NO, NO. THAT WAS VERY BRIEF. GOOD JOB. HADN'T FINISHED. DO YOU THINK ONE WOULD BE APPROPRIATE IN LIKE A, WHERE WOULD BE AN RS NEIGHBORHOOD? [02:05:01] MY NEIGHBORHOOD RS. IS THAT IN THE GREEN? I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING OUT THERE. THERE'S NOTHING OUT THERE RIGHT NOW. NO. YEAH. JUST, I'M JUST A LITTLE CURIOUS. SOMETIMES GOING BACK TO THIS IDEA OF SMALLER STORES, YOU KNOW? WELL, AND, AND I LIKE THAT IDEA BECAUSE YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M, UH, SIXTH STREET AND THEN YOU'RE NEIGHBORHOOD DISTRICT FOR DEVELOPMENT. OH, IS THAT WHAT IT TURNS INTO? THEN? YOU'RE D OKAY. YOU'RE GETTING BACK TO LIKE BEFORE ZONING, LIKE BEFORE USES FOR SEPARATED OUT WHEN EVERYTHING'S IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND YOU CAN WALK AND, AND THAT'S WHAT I SAYING, WE DIDN'T NEED TO GET THAT MUSIC. YEAH. AS SOMEBODY WHO GREW UP IN A SUBURB, IT WOULD'VE BEEN NICE TO HAVE A GROCERY STORE, I GUESS THERE, BUT IT ALSO WASN'T TOO BAD TO DRIVE A LITTLE WAYS. AND YOU'RE GONNA BE DOING THAT ANYWAY TO GO TO WHICHEVER ONE. WELL, IT IS A MAJOR PRINCIPLE OF NEW URBANISM. BUT BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE. DOESN'T STATEMENT 10 TOTALLY FINE. YEAH. LIKE I'M DOESN'T STATEMENT OF 10 JUST BECAUSE, JUST A LITTLE BIT FURTHER. AND YOU HAVE ROBINSON'S GROCERY RIGHT UP THERE. RIGHT? THAT'S, THAT'S A DIFFERENT ZONE. IT ZONE DIFFERENTLY. THERE'S GONNA BE THERE GONNA ZONES, COMMERCIAL ZONE DIFFERENT. I THINK IT'S IN, IS IT? AND I CAN SEE IT MAKING SENSE FOR BY HOUSES MONASAS AVENUE AND COMMERCIAL MONASAS CENSUS. I CAN SEE ITAS I THINK IS ADDING RED THERE. THAT'S ROBINSON'S ALL THE WAY UP THERE. BUT IT'S GREEN. IT'S LIGHT GREEN. BUT IT MIGHT BE IT'S RESIDENTIAL MANASAS. YEAH, THIS IS MANAS. OKAY. IT'S THE RED. YEAH. OKAY. LOT IN A TOTALLY RESIDENTIAL AREA. SORRY, I DID THAT TOOK FAR LONGER THAN WHAT ABOUT JOHN WAS REALLY TRYING HARD. IT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED. IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A P AND B. I MEAN IF, IF YOU WANT A GROCERY STORE AND OTHER THINGS, THEN IT'S A P AND D. WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF YET. NO. OKAY. ALL LOT WITH SETBACK. I JUST HAVE QUESTION OF UNDERSTANDING. UH, THE LAST VACANT LOT, MAYBE SOON OCCUPIED BY A BUILDING HAVING A MINIMUM SETBACK. BUT IF IT'S VACANT, HOW'S THEIR BUILDING ON IT? WELL, WHICH ONE YOU ON? UH, SIX, UH, 6 3 6 8 58. OKAY. SETBACK. THE LAST SENTENCE TO THE SETBACK. A VACANT LOT MAY BE ASSUMED TO BE OCCUPIED BY THAT BUILDING, HAVE AN A MINIMUM SETBACK. SO, BUT HOW IS IT A VACANT LOT IF THERE'S A BUILDING ON IT? WELL, IT, IT WAY IT IS WRITTEN IS, UH, IF YOU HAVE A VACANT LOT AND YOU HAVE HOUSES BUILT ON THAT STREET IN THE RS DISTRICT MM-HMM . YOU, THEY DON'T NEED TO BE SET BACK ANY MORE THAN THE AVERAGE SETBACK. SO THE SETBACK DOESN'T APPLY. IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T. THE VACANT LOT, THE SETBACK ON THE STREET COULD BE 50. RIGHT. SO THE FRONT SETBACK IS 50 FEET. MM-HMM . SO IF YOU HAVE HOUSES ALREADY IN THAT DISTRICT THAT ARE SET BACK 35 FEET MM-HMM . THEN THAT VACANT LOT ONLY NEEDS TO BE SET BACK 35 FEET, NOT TO 50. OKAY, GOT IT. CONSISTENT. SO YOU HAVE THIS MM-HMM . THE, THE FRONTS WOULD LOOK NORMAL. SO YOU WOULDN'T HAVE NORMAL FOR THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. YES. OKAY. YEP. MAKES SENSE. OKAY. I REMEMBER THOSE PICTURES FROM THE BRINGING DOWN, UH, DOWN IN RICHMOND. RIGHT. SO I MEAN, AND YOU HAVE THAT IN SOME OF THESE OLDER SECTIONS HERE IN TOWN, ESPECIALLY IN THE OLDER HISTORIC DISTRICT UNION, YOU HAVE HOUSES RIGHT AT THE EDGE OF THE SIDEWALK ESSENTIALLY. YEAH. MM-HMM . AND THAT'S HAVE SET BACK 35. THE ONE YOU DID THE STOP WORK ON UP THERE BY THE OLD, BY THE OLD, UM, FURNITURE PLACE. UM, THE FLOORING PLACE AT ONE TIME, UH, HAD, HE WAS DOING THE DUPLEX, UH, TWO FAMILY DWELLING. TWO FAMILY DWELLING. THAT WAS ONE THAT WAS A, THE STOP WORK ORDER WAS ISSUED BECAUSE THEY BUILT CROSS RESTRICTION LINE. BUT, BUT THE FRONT OF IT WAS THAT THIS RULE APPLIED. YEAH. THAT RULE THERE. WE TOOK THE AVERAGE. DAKOTA ALLOWS THAT IN CERTAIN THINGS THAT HELP, THAT'S HELPFUL IN FILL IN LOCKS. UM, IN OTHER, UH, SECTIONS, AND I'M SORRY I'M SKIPPING AHEAD. THAT'S IN THE IN SECTION FOR UNDER HEIGHT C CHURCH, SPIRES, RIE COPPOLA IN OTHER ZONING, UH, DISTRICTS. WE DON'T JUST FULLY EXEMPT SPIRES [02:10:01] AND COPPOLA. I MEAN, I'M FINE WITH, I'M GONNA BE EXEMPT. I THINK IT CAN MAKE SENSE. I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, WE ARE REASONABLY GONNA SEE SOMEONE GOING, OH GREAT, I'M MAKING A HUNDRED FOOT CHIMNEY. BUT UM, YOU KNOW, ARE WE OPENING OURSELVES UP TO ANY POTENTIAL ISSUES BY JUST FLAT EXEMPTING THEM FROM HIGH REQUIREMENTS FOR THOSE SPECIFICS? YOU GOTTA EXEMPT A WATER CHILD. SURE. I MEAN THAT'S JUST A CLASSIC STAPLE OF THAT SPOT, BUT OH, THIS IS IN, BUT THIS IS RS ONE RS. MM-HMM . I MEAN, YEAH. I MEAN NOT AGAINST NECESSARILY KEEPING 'EM EXEMPT TO THINGS. LIKE I SAID, IT MAKES SENSE TO AN EXTENT. NO, IT SURE EXPIRE HAS TO BE MORE THAN FOUR FEET HEIGHT ABOVE BUILDING BE A REAL SPI. SURE. BUT IN THE, IN THE OTHER, UH, UH, LIKE IN RE OR SORRY, AN AG FOR EXAMPLE, IT HAS A, UH, A HEIGHT ALLOWED FOR BUILDINGS AND THEN A CHURCH SPIRE. COLO IS ALLOWED TO BE A CERTAIN HEIGHT ABOVE THAT. UM, WHEREAS IN THIS ONE, BUT THEY'RE GONNA BE BUILDINGS OF DIFFERENT HEIGHTS IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. SURE. BUT IF WE HAVE A, IF THERE'S A MAXIMUM HEIGHTS, I BELIEVE THERE IS, YEAH. BUILDINGS MUST MAYBE ERECTED OF THREE AND ONE HALF STORIES NOT TO EXCEED 45 FEET. SO WE COULD VERY EASILY THEN SAY A CHURCH BUYER, YOU KNOW, MAY NOT THEN PEAK AT OVER 55 FEET OR 60 WHATEVER'S REASONABLE. THAT WOULD BE MORE IN LINE TO WHAT WE'VE DONE, WHAT WE DID IN AG. FOR EXAMPLE, HOW TALL ARE CHURCH FIRES? I MEAN, HOW, HOW HIGH IS A CHURCH FIRE? BUT YOU HAVE, HOW HIGH DOES IT HAVE TO BE SO YOU CAN SEE IT AND KNOW IT'S A CHURCH FIRE. I, IT'S LIKE 10, 15 FEET ABOVE. WE WE'RE NOT UNUSUAL FOR EXEMPTING THIS, I MEAN OTHER TOWNS. SURE, SURE. VERY. UM MM-HMM. BUT THERE ARE PLACES THAT IT DO I JUST TRYING TO LOOK QUICKLY HERE. LIKE A R CODE THAT DO NO, NO, NO. IN OTHER TOWNS. OH, OTHER, OTHER TOWNS. BUT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT R CODE THAT THEY'RE, THAT WE HAVEN'T EXEMPTED THEM IN AG. SO WHY WOULD WE EXEMPT THEM HERE? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? THERE WE GO. UH, BUILDINGS AND STRUCTURES, WHICH ARE AGRICULTURAL PURSUITS, BLAH BLAH BLAH. AS WELL AS CHURCH FIRES AND COS MAY BE ERECTED TO A HEIGHT OF 60 FEET FROM GRADE. WE DO HAVE A SPECIFICATION IN A ONE, AN A ONE FOR THAT. AND I MEAN, SHOOT, I WOULD THINK A ONE WOULD BE A BETTER ONE TO SAY JUST FULL, FULL EXEMPTION. UH, VERSUS INCONSISTENT. YEAH, IT DOES. DO YOU WANT AN EXEMPTION FOR ALL OF IT? OR AN EXEMPTION FOR NONE OF IT? LET'S SAY FOR ALL OF IT. I'M INCLINED TOWARDS NONE OF IT. NONE OF IT. I DON'T WANT, I'D SAY NONE OF IT, DUDE, BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S TIP WELL WAIT, SORRY, I HAD IT BACKWARDS. NO. EXEMPT IT ALL. YEAH, EXEMPT IT ALL HERE. OKAY. EXEMPT IT ALL FROM HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? IT'S JUST THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. THE BUILDING OFFICIAL IS GONNA REVIEW IT, MAKE SURE IT'S STRUCTURAL IS STABLE. RIGHT? I MEAN, ARE YOU SAYING YOU DON'T WANT ANY, THIS HAS NO HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS. RIGHT. IN THIS, IN THE RS FOR THOSE WE'RE SAYING CERTAIN THINGS, CHURCHES POTENTIALLY, UH, MUNICIPAL WATER TOWERS, CHIMNEYS, BLUES, FLAG POLES. SO, UH, BASICALLY I GUESS IF SOMEONE IN THE RS WANTED TO PUT A A HUNDRED FOOT FLAG POLE IN THEIR FRONT YARD, THEY COULD WITH THE BUILDING PERMIT. AND IT BOTHERS ME MORE THE TELEVISION ANTENNAS AND RADIO AREA. YEAH. I MEAN THEY'RE GETTING OBSOLETE. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A BUILDING PERMIT LIKE PULL OVER 35 FEET, I BELIEVE. MM-HMM . UM, BUT YOU'RE THINKING THE AGRICULTURAL ONE WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE IF YOU'RE GONNA EXEMPT IT. EXEMPT IN THE AG? NOT IN THE, NOT WHEN YOU START GETTING INTO, YOU KNOW, SOMEWHAT HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL. HOW ABOUT IF WE EXEMPTED AN AG AND WRITE IT A LITTLE BIT HERE? JUST FLIP BAG WITH THIS ONE. EVERY ONE WE HERE. HMM. THEY'RE PROBABLY EXEMPT IN THE OTHER. UH, ALSO THINK SO. YEAH. SEE THEY'RE, THEY'RE EXEMPT IN THE OTHER, UH, THEY'RE EXEMPT IN R ONES. MM-HMM . INTERESTING REASON. PROBABLY ME PERSONALLY, I [02:15:01] LEAN, I LIEN COURT EXEMPT FOR ALL. YEAH. OKAY. YEAH, IT MAKES IT SIMPLE. THE MONEY TRY TO PARSE ALL. WE READY TO GO TO R ONE. WE GOING THROUGH R ONE I THE IDEA THAT WE WOULD GET S TODAY. I MEAN, I MEAN AT THE END, THE ONLY CHANGE TAKE DD IS LOWERING THE LOT. FIVE. EVERYTHING ELSE IS PRETTY GOOD. AND WE'VE NEVER ACTUALLY HAD A SUCCESSFUL DND RETURN THAT'S BEEN BUILT. WELL SOMETHING THAT YOU, IT'S BEEN REZONED BUT IT HASN'T BEEN. WE NEED TO LOOK INTO THAT PROBABLY. DO YOU WANNA GET INTO R ONE? I MEAN, IF THERE'S NOT MAJOR DISCUSSION, I'LL GO WOULD MAJORLY IN. I'LL GO WITH A COLLECTIVE. WELL LAUREN WOULD BE A BIG INCONVENIENCE TO STAFF IF WE DID THAT IN A WORK SESSION AFTER THE UPCOMING MEETING. THAT'S FINE. BECAUSE THERE'S NOT MUCH ON THE AGENDA. NO, THAT'S FINE. WE CAN DO THAT. YOU GUYS ARE READY? OR ONE, TWO, AND THREE? BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT ENOUGH HOMEWORK FOR RIGHT NOW, RIGHT? LAUREN? I'VE GOT PLENTY. DO YOU WANNA STOP THERE AT, UH, PICK UP THAT DOLLAR ONE? UM, IF I WANTED TO LOOK UP EXAMPLES OF WHERE THESE SETBACKS, LIKE THE CHANGE THAT WE'RE SEEKING TO MAKE AND WHERE THE ASSESS WHERE THAT SHOWS IN DIFFERENT AREAS. WOULD THAT BE ON GIS OR I CAN SEND YOU THE VERSION THAT IT'S, IT'S NOT SO MUCH THAT, BUT IF WE'RE GOING FROM, YOU KNOW, A SETBACK OF 25 TO A SETBACK OF 15 MM-HMM . RIGHT. AND THAT'S BEING DONE OUT OF NECESSITY. UM, I JUST WANNA BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE, SO OUR CONTRACTOR DID THAT. OH I CAN, THEY CLOSED OUT OUR ACCOUNT. I CAN REACH OUT AND ASK THEM FOR THAT. THEY HIRED OUT, SO THEY CONTRACTED OUT OUR ORDINANCE WER. SO WHEN I DO THE CALL THERE WAS UM, I SHOULD CLOSE EVERYTHING OUT OR NOT. OH, I GOT IT. MAKE ANY CHANGE ON MY WINDOW. SO DID YOU SAVE IT OR I CAN'T REMEMBER IF I SAVED IT. UM, YOU DID. COULD YOU EMAIL THAT TO ME? THAT WOULD BE GREAT. ALRIGHT. SAVED IT AND I'LL EMAIL IT BACK. RIGHT BACK TO YOU. YEP. THAT'S AWESOME. THANK YOU. MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN. YES. ADJOURN. SECOND. SECOND. IT, I WILL BRING. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.