* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. WE'RE [00:00:01] OFF AND RUNNING. OKAY. I AM GONNA CALL [Town Council Work Session on September 2, 2025.] TO ORDER THE TOWN COUNCIL REGULAR WORK SESSION FOR TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 2ND. UM, TO ORDER. AND MS. LEY, CAN WE DO A ROLL CALL? MAYOR COCKRELL HERE. VICE MAYOR ENTAL. HERE. COUNCILWOMAN. MONICA KANE? HERE. ? HERE. RAPPAPORT? HERE. COUNCILMAN LOC? HERE. COUNCILMAN WOOD HERE? YES. AND, UH, COUNCILMAN WOOD. CAN YOU STATE YOUR REASON FOR, UM, SIR, UH, PARTICIPATING REMOTELY IN YOUR LOCATION? YES. OKAY. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO COUNCIL WOOD ATTENDING REMOTELY? OKAY. ALRIGHT, MOVING ON. SO, NEW BUSINESS, UM, IS FIRST IT LOOKS LIKE . LOOKS LIKE LAUREN'S GONNA BE UP HERE FOR A WHILE TONIGHT. SO COME ON UP. THIS COULD BE STREET. SO THE FIRST ONE IS A REQUEST FROM THE WARREN COALITION TO REFUND A FEE FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR 4 37 SOUTH ROYAL AVENUE. THAT'S FIRST. SO WITH THIS REQUEST, UM, THE WARREN COALITION HAD INITIALLY APPLIED FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A LODGING HOUSE AT THIS LOCATION. THEY PAID THE FEE, WE STARTED THE PROCESS, AND THEN ANOTHER ENTITY CAME FORWARD AFTER DISCUSSIONS WITH THEM TO TRY TO TAKE OVER. SO THEY SUBMITTED THE SAME APPLICATION, THEY PAID THE FEE AND WARN COALITION STEPPED AWAY AND REQUESTED THAT THEY GET A REFUND. SO, UM, SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT, 'CAUSE I KNOW THAT YOU ALL HAD ALREADY DONE WORK TAP HAD DONE WORK, SO TIME AND ENERGY AND HOURS WERE SPENT. BUT YOU'RE SAYING, SO WHEN THE NEXT GROUP CAME IN, THAT BASICALLY WAS USING THE SUP FOR THE SAME LOCATION? YEP. SAME LOCATION. DID YOU ALL HAVE TO REPEAT ANY OF THE HOURS OF WORK THAT YOU HAD DONE WHEN THIS BECAME ALL WE HAD TO DO? I MEAN, WE HAD ALREADY DONE A SITE VISIT. WE HAD BEEN OUT THERE BEFORE BECAUSE FOR THIS, UM, I GUESS LODGING HOUSE IF COULD BE POSSIBLE. I THINK A YEAR OR TWO AGO, THE PREVIOUS OWNER HAD APPLIED FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A GROUND FLOOR APARTMENT. SO THERE IS A GROUND LEVEL LIVING SPACE. UM, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS WAS BECOME A LODGING HOUSE USING THAT PORTION. SO IT'S NOT LIKE THE, SO, SO THEY CAME THROUGH. OKAY. SO MY QUESTION THOUGH IS, IS THAT DID STAFF HAVE TO DO ADDITIONAL WORK ONCE THE NEW APPLICANT CAME IN? WERE YOU ABLE TO USE THE MAJORITY? WE TO USE THE MAJORITY. OKAY. OKAY. AS ADVERTISING, I SUPPOSE THERE WERE SECOND A, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT WE HAD GOTTEN TO THE ADVERTISING NET FAIRLY SOON AFTER THE APPLICATION WAS SUBMITTED. I BELIEVE IT WAS BEFORE WE WENT TO A WORK SESSION WITH THEM. OKAY. THAT THIS NEW APPLICANT CAME FORWARD. AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I WAS GOING WITH IT. IT'S LIKE IF WE HAD, IF WE, IF WE HAD ADVERTISED THAT'S MONEY WE CAN'T GET BACK. BUT IF THE WORK YOU ALL DID, YOU JUST, WHEN YOU GOT THE NEW APPLICATION AND THEY PAID A THOUSAND DOLLARS, YOU DIDN'T DO DOUBLE THE WORK AND, YOU KNOW, SO ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR 'CAUSE WE'VE SEEN, WE GET A LOT, WE GET A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR WAIVERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEFORE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, JUST, UM, EVEN TAKING IT ALL OFF OFF THE TABLE. BUT, UH, JUST TO COVER THE LEGAL YEP. CASE, UM, THE ACTUAL, UH, FORMAL NAME OF THE ENTITY IS WARREN COUNTY COMMUNITY HEALTH COALITION INC. AND BASED ON OUR RESEARCH, THEY QUALIFY UNDER STATE CODE 15.2 9 53 FOR DONATION. OKAY. AS A CHARITABLE INSTITUTION OR ASSOCIATION LOCATED WITHIN THE RESPECTIVE LIMITS OR OUTSIDE THE LIMITS OF TOWN, IF SUCH INSTITUTION OR ASSOCIATION PROVIDES SERVICES TO RESIDENTS OF THE LOCALITY AND IS NOT CONTROLLED IN WHOLE OR IN PART BY A CHURCH OR SECTARIAN SOCIETY. SO BY DOING YOU'RE SAYING BY US REFUNDING IT, IT'S AS THOUGH WE'RE GIVING DONATION. CORRECT. OKAY. A WAIVER IS GETTING OUT TO A DONATION. OKAY. COUNSEL, MY ONLY QUESTION, [00:05:01] DID WE NOT GIVE THEM A REDUCED FEE? WE DID. SO THE ORIGINAL FEE IS $1,200. WE HAVE A 1200, OR SORRY, 20% REDUCTION IN BASED FOR NON-PROFITS. OKAY. SO THE NEW GROUP, $8,000 AS WELL. I MEAN MY, EVERYONE'S COMFORTABLE. THIS GROUP IS VETTED. YES. THAT HEARING THE SECOND GROUP. WHAT TRYING SECOND GROUP? I MEAN YOU NO, THE FIRST GROUP, THE WARREN POLISH YOU TALKING? NO, NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE GROUP THAT'S TAKING PLACE. WARREN. OH, I DON'T KNOW WHO. WELL, THAT'S COMING UP IN THE NEXT COUPLE ITEMS. ALRIGHT. OKAY. I GOT YOU. DOWNLOAD C YEAH, BECAUSE I WAS GONNA SAY, IF THIS WAS A SITUATION WHERE SOMEBODY APPLIED AND THEN PULLED OUT AND SAID, WELL WE DON'T WANNA DO IT ANYMORE, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD FEEL AS COMFORTABLE ABOUT SAYING, WELL WE WOULD REFUND THE APPLICATION BECAUSE THE WORK'S ALREADY BEEN PUT IN MM-HMM . LIKE, YOU CAN'T TAKE THE HOURS BACK. YOU CAN'T DO THAT. AND THAT'S THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THESE FEES IN THE FIRST PLACE IS NOT FOR THE TOWN TO MAKE ANY MONEY, BUT RATHER TO RECOUP SOME OF THE EXPENSES THAT THAT OCCUR. AND OF COURSE, IT DOESN'T RECOUP AT ALL. BUT IF THERE WASN'T ANOTHER GROUP COMING IN, THEN I MIGHT, I I I PROBABLY WOULD BE FEEL A LITTLE DIFFERENT ABOUT REFUNDING IT, BUT AT LEAST THERE IS SOMEBODY WHO'S GOING TO PAY TOWARDS IT. BUT THAT'S ITEM C. SO BOTH, BOTH ENTITIES HAVE ALREADY PAID THE MORE COALITION PAID AND THEN THE LOVE REVIVAL OR LIFE SOMETHING, LIFE REPAIR CENTER REPAIR. THEY, THEY PAID COUNSEL. COUNSEL. DID ANYBODY KNOW? I THINK IT'S FINE. I MEAN, IT'S WHAT OUT MEAN? ITS SOMEBODY ELSE PICKED UP THE TABLETS ALL, SEE IT'S HOW IT KIND FEELS LIKE BENEFITING FROM THE WORK THAT WAS DONE. YEAH. YEAH. IT'S NOT LIKE Y'ALL ARE HAVING TO DO EVERYTHING FROM SCRATCH AGAIN. SO THE MOST TIME THAT WENT INTO IT WAS, UM, CAROL'S TIME INPUTTING AND ROUTING THE APPLICATION. OKAY. WHAT WOULD YOU NEED FROM US? LIKE SHOULD WE APPROVE THIS REFUND? JUST, YOU JUST JUST NEED DIRECTION. YOUR, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO TAKE AN ACTION, DOES IT? AN ACTION. IT'S JUST SOMETHING WE DO HERE. IS IT SOMETHING WE HAVE TO TAKE ACTION ON A REGULAR MEETING? YES. OKAY. OH, ALRIGHT. I'M FINE WITH MOVING IT FORWARD. I THINK ALSO THE WARREN COALITION DOES SO MUCH FOR THE COMMUNITY AND THEIR EFFORTS IN THE COMMUNITY ARE WORTH REFUNDING THE FEE. YEAH. IT'S NOT LIKE THEY WON'T PUT THIS BACK INTO PROGRAMS THEY'RE ALREADY DOING. SO, UM, IF EVERYBODY'S GOOD WITH IT, CAN WE PUT IT ON CONSENT? COUNCILMAN WOOD? ARE YOU, ARE YOU GOOD WITH PUTTING IT ON CONSENT? YES. OKAY. ALRIGHT. WE'LL MOVE TO B, WHICH IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT ALLY COOK TO ALLOW A SHORT TERM RENTAL AT 1408 OLD WINCHESTER PIKE. OKAY. SO, UH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON, I THINK IT WAS AUGUST 20TH, RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS ONE. SO, UM, IT'S JUST, IT'S A LITTLE SINGLE FAMILY HOME AT THIS POINT, UM, THAT HAS BEEN IN USE AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL THERE. THIS IS THEM BRINGING IT INTO COMPLIANCE. UM, IT'S LOCATED ON THE RIVER, IT'S GOT SUFFICIENT PARKING, BUT WE DID AN INSPECTION. EVERYTHING MEETS OUR STANDARDS, SO WE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL WITHOUT ANY CONDITIONS. DID WE SEE THIS BEFORE? THAT'S WHAT, WHEN THE AGENDA CAME OUT, I THOUGHT IT WAS SOMETHING WE HAD SEEN. OKAY. THEY MUST HAVE COULD DOWN NEAR THE BA HOUSE. YEAH, YEAH. MUST PARKING ACTUALLY. YEAH, THEY'RE RIGHT. IT'S TRUE. YEAH. YEAH, THAT'S, YEAH, THEY SUBDIVIDED. SO THE BAIT HOUSE IS NO LONGER ON THIS PROPERTY, LIKE THEY'RE TWO SEPARATE PROPERTY. THAT'S RIGHT. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO PUTTING THIS ON CONSENT? OH, SORRY. I'M SO SORRY. PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. YEAH, PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. MOVING ON TO NUMBER THREE. THIS IS THE ONE THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. SO THIS IS THE LODGING HOUSE, SPECIAL USE PERMIT BY LIFE REPAIR CENTER. AND THIS IS FOR THE SHORT TERM BASICALLY, SORRY. SHORT TERM RENTAL AT 4 37 SOUTH ROYAL. UM, SO WITH THIS ONE AGAIN, IT'S, UM, THERE'S A KITCHEN, A LIVING AREA, AND THEN I BELIEVE THREE BEDROOMS THAT THEY WOULD BE UTILIZING. THERE'S SUFFICIENT PARKING. UM, [00:10:01] WE'VE DONE NUMEROUS INSPECTIONS. EVERYTHING IS IN COMPLIANCE. I, I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THIS IS BECAUSE IT'S NEAR MY HOUSE. IS THIS, THIS WAS THE SAM SNEAD BUILDING. OH YEAH, JOSH IS ON THE OTHER END. OH, THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. THERE'S PROSPECT HILL CEMETERY. AND WE DID, WE DID, WE DID TALK ABOUT THIS PROPERTY IN THE PAST BECAUSE THE OWNER OR I WAS AT THE OH, I SAW THAT RIGHT THERE. I CONVERT IT TO AN APARTMENT. IS IT? OR MY BUSINESS ACTUALLY, I THOUGHT, NO, THIS WAS THE ONE THEY WERE GONNA PUT LIKE A, THEY'RE CALLING IT A LODGING HOUSE. BUT THIS IS A LO IS A LOD HOUSE. NO, NO, THIS WAS THE ONE. YEAH. NO, BUT BEFORE THAT DIDN'T, SHE WANTED, BEFORE THAT SHE WANTED AN APARTMENT, SHE WANTED A GROUND FLOOR APARTMENT. SHE WAS HAVING HEALTH ISSUES, BUT THEN SHE DIDN'T MOVE INTO IT. SHE SOLD IT. RIGHT. OKAY. THIS IS MRS. SAMUELS PROPERTY. I BELIEVE SHE CAME TO US, APPROVED FOR HER. RIGHT. IT WAS ON THE BACK CORNER OF THE BUILDING. YEAH. TRADE, ADDITIONAL SHELTER FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND THEN REQUESTING PERMIT FOR LODGING HOUSE. SO, OKAY. ALRIGHT. YEAH, THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS CHANGED SINCE THE LAST TIME WE SAW IT. YEAH. JUST YES. OKAY. ALRIGHT. NEXT ONE. IS THIS C ONE? MM-HMM . YEP. AND THIS IS A LODGING HOUSE ON A SHORT TERM RENTAL. SO I, I PULLED THE WRONG PHRASE THERE OR DESCRIPTION, BUT IT IS A SHORT TERM, OR SORRY, A LODGING HOUSE, NOT A SHORT TERM RENTAL. NOT WHAT I THOUGHT. YEAH, YEAH. WELL THERE, SO WHEN I ADVERTISE MORE AND IS IT GONNA BE LODGING HOUSE? IT'S LODGING HOUSE. OKAY. SO SUP YES. FOR LODGING. SUP FOR LODGING HOUSE. LODGING HOUSE. NOT SHORT TERM RENTAL. RIGHT. OKAY. UM, AND THAT REQUIRES A PUBLIC HEARING AS WELL, RIGHT? YES. YES. SEPTEMBER'S GONNA BE BUSY. ALL RIGHT. NEXT UP IS DA SPECIAL USE PERMIT SUBMITTED BY CLAUDE V? IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? I UNDERSTAND. HE NEEDS TO DO A, THIS IS A SHORT TERM RENTAL AT 1 0 1. THE HILL, UM, PLANNING COMMISSION HAD SOME CONCERNS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT PD WOULD BE ABLE TO FIND IT IF THERE WAS SOME TYPE OF EMERGENCY. I CALLED OVER TO PD. THEY SAID THEY HAVE NO ISSUES FINDING IT IN THEIR SYSTEM. UM, I DID NOT RECOMMEND AN ADDRESS CHANGE, FIX IT, AND, UM, MIGHT HAVE AN ISSUE. . UM, WE DID AN INSPECTION. EVERYTHING WAS COMPLIANCE. UM, WE HAD NO ISSUES WITH SUPPOSED TO MY HOUSE. IS THAT, IS THAT PICTURE IN OURS? YEAH, IT IS. OKAY. LEMME SEE. SEE THAT? YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. NO, I, I KNOW WHERE IT IS. I, BUT I'M THINKING MORE. IT'S, IT IS WEIRD THOUGH THAT IT'S ADDRESSES THE HILL, BUT I'M, I'M GUESSING IT'S BECAUSE IT FACES THE HILL VERSUS FACES STONEWALL. IT DOESN'T FRONT STONEWALL. YEAH, IT FRONT, YEAH, IT FRONTS THE HILL, WHICH AT FIRST I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT WAS A REAL ADDRESS. I HAD TO TAKE A SECOND LOOK AT IT. , AT LEAST FIRST IT CAME OUT. I HAD TO LOOK IT UP TOO, EVEN THOUGH I DROVE BY THE PUBLIC HEARING. SO, BUT THE 1 0 9 IS ALSO THE HILL. MM-HMM . YEP. NO, I, I, I RECALL THEM WHEN I WAS DOOR KNOCKING AND THEY WERE FINE TO FIND. OKAY. IS, DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY CONCERNS OR QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? THOUGHT THAT, OKAY, SO THAT'S ALSO A PUBLIC HEARING, RIGHT? UH, THEY GOT, THEY THEY HAVE PARKING. IS THAT RIGHT? YEAH, THEY GOT PLENTY. CORNER DRIVEWAY PROVIDES TO YOU. WALL STREET. OKAY. ALRIGHT. NEXT UP IS A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TOWN CODE 1 75 DASH THREE DEFINITIONS TO REDEFINE THE DEFINITION OF OVERHANG AS IT PERTAINS TO ANY PROJECTION, EITHER ROOF BAY WINDOW OR SIMILAR CAN TO LEVER. AM I SAYING THAT RIGHT? YES. CAN, CAN, HOW DO YOU SAY IT? CONSTRUCTION KANSAS LEVER CONSTRUCTION, WHICH EXTENDS BEYOND THE FOUNDATION OF A STRUCTURE. THAT REALLY IS A NEW WORD FOR ME. NEVER. IT HANGS OVER THE, YEAH. BEYOND THE WALL. IT'S REALLY INTERESTING. OKAY. THIS ONE WE THOUGHT A VISUAL WOULD HELP. SO RIGHT NOW THE CURRENT DEFINITION IS A BIT COMPLICATED, BUT IT'S ANY PROJECTION, EITHER THE ROOF BAY WINDOW OR SIMILAR CAN RECONSTRUCTION, WHICH EXTENDS BEYOND THE FOUNDATION OF A STRUCTURE IS WHERE IT GETS A LITTLE TRICKY. SO NO SUCH CONSTRUCTION SHALL PROJECT INTO ANY REQUIRED YARD MORE THAN THREE FEET. AND [00:15:01] NO SUCH PROJECTION SHALL HAVE A VERTICAL SURFACE WHOSE AREA IS MORE THAN 25% OF THE AREA OBTAINED BY MULTIPLYING THE MEAN HEIGHT OF THE STRUCTURE. SO WHENEVER WE GO TO CALCULATE WHETHER OR NOT THIS OVERHANG IS PERMITTED, WE HAVE TO THEN GO TO THE DEFINITION OF BUILDING HEIGHT AND WE CALCULATE THAT WITH THE MEAN AREA OF THE, THE ROOF. SO WE, UM, OR SORRY, THE MEAN HEIGHT OF THE ROOF. SO IF IT'S A GABLE ROOF, DEPENDING ON THE PITCH OF THE GABLE, IT DETERMINES HOW WE DETERMINE THE HEIGHT OF THE STRUCTURE. SO WE'RE NOT LOOKING FROM GROUND TO THE TOP. IT'S LIKE THE AVERAGE RIGHT IN HERE. BUT WHAT THAT'S DOING IS WE CAN, YOU CAN HAVE A SUBDIVISION WHERE A PRODUCT OR A A, LIKE A DUPLEX FOR EXAMPLE, WILL FIT ON ALL BUT TWO OR THREE OF THE LOTS. AND THEN YOU'RE ASKING THE BUILDER TO CHANGE UP THE, UM, THE HOUSE PLANS. TYPICALLY, THEY DON'T WANNA DO THAT FOR ONE OR TWO LOTS. THEY HAVE A PRODUCT THEY HAVE THAT, YOU KNOW, PLAN APPROVED THE BUILDING IN. AND, YOU KNOW, THEY PROCESS. SO WITH THIS ONE, THE REQUEST WAS TO SIMPLIFY IT DOWN TO THE PART OF A ROOF OR WALL THAT EXTENDS BE ON THE FACADE. NO SUCH CONSTRUCTION SHALL PROJECT MORE THAN THREE FEET AND SHALL BE INCLUDED IN THE CALCULATION AND BLOCK COVERAGE, MEANING THAT WHEN WE CALCULATE HOW MUCH OF THE PARCEL IS TAKEN UP BY THE STRUCTURE, WE'RE NOT COUNTING IT, WE'RE NOT TAKING THE SQUARE OR THE RECTANGLE FROM HERE TO HERE AND ACROSS, WE'RE THEN STARTING FROM HERE. SO THIS BECOMES OUR CALCULATION POINT AND GOING OVER. BUT THIS, THIS WOULD SIMPLIFY THESE CALCULATIONS AND, UM, AND THE TAX, THE TAX IS BASED ON WHAT SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE STRUCTURE AND THEN VALUE OF THE PROPERTY WITHOUT THE, WITHOUT THE OVERHANG OR WITH THE OVERHANG. DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE? IT'S GONNA INCREASE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE. 'CAUSE IF THEY CAN EXTEND LIKE THREE FEET, IF THEY COULD PUT IT OVER. SO THAT BASICALLY LETS YOU, YOU KNOW, USUALLY THESE ARE BATHROOMS, BEDROOM CLOSETS, UM, EXTENDING BACK. THEY FALL INTO LIKE BUMP OUT. YEAH. THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT IT IS. OKAY. HAVE YOU HAD ANY COMMENTS FROM OUR DONORS IN THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THIS? NOBODY CAME TO THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR A TEXT AMENDMENT. WE HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING , EVERY ONE OF THESE. MM-HMM. OKAY. YES. ON, SO WE ALREADY HAVE PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THAT NIGHT. RIGHT. AND, AND WE'RE DOING IT EARLY ENOUGH THAT WE CAN HAVE IT ON THERE. IS EVERY, I MEAN, IS EVERYBODY READY TO MOVE IT FOR TO A PUBLIC HEARING? THAT'S REALLY MY QUESTION. NOT WHETHER OR NOT YOU SUPPORTED OR NOT, BUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANNA MOVE IT TO A PUBLIC HEARING IS THIS LIKE INTENT TO REDUCE POTENTIALLY ORDER OF ZONING APPEALS? THIS ISN'T SOMETHING I CAN GRANT A VARIANCE FOR. SO IT DOESN'T STOP US FROM . THEY'RE NOT A FACTOR. OKAY. OKAY. MOVING ALONG TO F IT'S AN ORDINANCE TO MEN CHAPTER 1 75 AT THE FRONT RURAL TOWN CODE BY ADDING THE DEFINITIONS OF AUXILIARY DWELLING UNIT A, DE AND REVISING THE DEFINITIONS OF ACCESSORY BUILDING, ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, ACCESSORY USE, GARAGE, PRIVATE GARAGE PUBLIC LOT, LOT COVERAGE AND PRINCIPLE PERMITTED USE, USE CONTAINED 1 75 DASH THREE. YOU GUYS CAN READ ALL THAT. I, AND I DON'T KNOW WHY I'M READING IT OUT LOUD. I'M PROBABLY MORE FOR THE PUBLIC THAN BY US, BUT I'M JUST READING A BUNCH OF NUMBERS NOW, WHICH WON'T MEAN A LOT TO THEM, BUT GO AHEAD MR. . OKAY. SO THIS IS REALLY GETTING INTO THE WEEDS OF ZONING AND, AND WHAT WE DO IN OUR DEPARTMENT. BUT, UM, SO THIS KIND OF STEMMED FROM A COUPLE OF THE LODGING, HOUSE SHELTER APPLICATIONS, A TEXT AMENDMENT THAT WAS PROPOSED FOR SHELTERS ON R ONE LOTS. AND, UM, THE DISCUSSIONS THAT FOLLOWED. AND THEN KIND OF LOOKING AT THE COMP PLAN, IT WAS, ALRIGHT, WE, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT AUXILIARY DWELLING UNIT. UM, STATE LAW, STATE LAW, STATE LAW HAS KIND OF CHANGED AND YEAH, THIS IS PART OF STATE LAW. THERE'S LEGISLATION [00:20:01] NOW THAT DEFINE SOMETHING. UM, BUT FOR US TO CREATE THIS AUXILIARY DWELLING UNIT, UM, DEFINITION, WE HAD TO ALSO AMEND THE RELATED DEFINITIONS OF ACCESSORY USE. SO, UM, ADUS WERE PERMITTED BEFOREHAND, BUT NOW WE ARE SEPARATING IT OUT AND WE'RE MAKING CLEAR STANDARDS. WE'RE MAKING, WE CREATED PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. THIS IS THE NAME OF CLARITY. AND FROM, UM, SO WE HAVE AN, AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT OR GRANNY FLAT BACKYARD COTTAGE. IT'S A SECONDARY SELF-CONTAINED RESIDENTIAL UNIT LOCATED ON THE SAME LOT AS THE PRIMARY SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING. SO THESE ARE INDEPENDENT LIVING FACILITIES. THEY HAVE A KITCHEN, BATHROOM, SLEEPING AREA, AND THEY HAVE A SEPARATE ENTRANCE. SO YOU CAN HAVE INTERIOR, WHICH, YOU KNOW, YOU TAKE YOUR BASEMENT, YOU'VE GOT A WALKOUT BASEMENT, YOU CAN CREATE A SECOND DWELLING, YOU CAN PUT A KITCHEN DOWN THERE NOW AND YOUR KIDS ANIMALS, WHOEVER CAN LIVE DOWN THERE, YOU CAN WRITE IT OUT. UM, OR YOU CAN HAVE AN ACTUAL SEPARATE STRUCTURE ON YOUR PROPERTY. UM, THAT'S WHAT THIS DEFINITION PERMITS. AND WE HAD TO AMEND THE, UM, GARAGE DEFINITION SO THAT IT WASN'T INCLUSIVE OF AN ACCESSORY BUILDING, WHICH WAS KIND OF INCLUSIVE OF AN A DU. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE DOING THAT. UM, BUT WHAT WE DID IS THAT WE PERMITTED THESE AS A BY RIGHT USE IN ALL OF THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS. SO IN THE R ONE, R ONE A, R TWO AND R THREE, UM, WE ALSO ARE ALLOWING THEM IN THE PND, WHICH GOES THROUGH SEVEN SEPARATE PUBLIC HEARINGS TO EVEN GET APPROVED. SO THERE'S NO WAY THIS COULD NOT BE LOOKED AT. UM, JUST IN THROUGH THAT PROCESS IN GENERAL. UM, AND THEN WE CREATED A PERFORMANCE STANDARD SECTION. SO THIS IS WHERE ALL THE INDIVIDUAL REQUIREMENTS COME INTO PLAY. SO THEY CAN'T EXCEED A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET OR 80% OF THE GROSS FLOOR AREA OF THE PRINCIPAL DWELLING, WHICHEVER SMALLER. SO YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE STRUCTURES THAT ARE, UM, OF ORDINARY DWELLING. THEY HAVE TO BE SMALLER. UM, THEY HAVE TO, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU. SURE. PART C THAT SAYS HERE, OR YEAH, OR SOMEWHERE. IS THAT, IS THAT SUPPOSED TO SAY GREATER OR LESS NOT EXCEED 33% OF THE MAIN SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING OR 500 SQUARE FEET, WHICHEVER IS I'M SAYING IF YOU GOT THE 10,000 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE, YOU HAVE 3,300. WELL, NO, NO, SORRY. IN THE, UM, THESE ARE THE INTERIOR SO THAT THE INTERNAL, THIS IS LIKE CONVERTING YOUR BASEMENT. SO, UM, WE'LL ALLOW UP TO A 500 SQUARE FOOT CONVERSION, BUT THAT 33% OF THE FLOOR AREA MAY BE SMALLER THAN THAT 500 SQUARE. YEAH. BUT BY SAYING WHICHEVER IS GREATER THOUGH. BUT IF I'VE GOT A 10,000 SQUARE FOOT FLOOR AREA, I COULD RIGHT. THE WAY THAT, THE WAY I READ IT ANYWAYS, I CAN GO, I CAN HAVE A 33, 3000 303, 3 0.30 FEET OF A U 'CAUSE IT'S GREATER THAN 500 SQUARE FEET. SO THE 500 SQUARE FEET IS THE, THE TOTAL LIMIT. UM, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A BASEMENT, I HAVE A WALKOUT BASEMENT. I MEAN, THAT COULD BE 1200 SQUARE FEET, I THINK OR MORE. SO THAT WOULDN'T BE, I THINK IT WAS MEANT TO SAY LESS, WHICHEVER LESS. OKAY. DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT FROM MY, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, LIKE I SAID, IF I, I GUESS I'M JUST USING AN EXAMPLE, BUT RIGHT NOW YOU PICK THE BIGGER NUMBER. YEAH. I MEAN, WHY ARE YOU, EVEN IF IT'S A, IF INTERNAL WOULD, YOU'RE MEANING IN THE HOUSE, RIGHT? IT'S INTERNAL. WHY EVEN PUT A LIMIT ON IT? TELL ME WHAT, TELL ME THE, TELL ME WHY YOU WOULD PUT A LIMIT ON IT. I UNDERSTAND ON THE LOT, YOU KNOW, AN EXTERNAL ONE, BUT AN INTERNAL ONE. WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE THE PURPOSE OF, OF HAVING A LIMIT? LIKE IF THE HOMEOWNER WANTED TO BE IN THE EFFICIENCY AND RUN OUT A LARGER PORTION TO YOU. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YEAH. NO, I, I, WELL IT PREVENTS YOU FROM DOING THAT THOUGH. NO. SO WE, WE REQUIRE THAT, WE REQUIRE THAT THE HOMEOWNER HAS TO BE ON SITE. THAT'S NOT WHAT I, THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M REFERENCING THERE THOUGH. THE AMOUNT OF THE A DU CANNOT EXCEED 33%. WHAT IF AN INDIVIDUAL HAS A LARGE HOME AND THEY WISH TO OCCUPY THE SMALLER PORTION OF THE YEAH, LIKE AS I GET OLDER, I MAY MOVE DOWNSTAIRS [00:25:01] AND THEN HAVE, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S FINE. THAT WOULD, WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH WHO, AS LONG AS THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY IS ON THE SITE AND LIVING THERE IN ONE OF THE SPACES, THEY CAN MOVE INTO THE A DU. THEY CAN CONTINUE TO, SO YOU CAN DEFINE, I COULD DEFINE THE A DUI COULD SAY LIKE THIS, RIGHT NOW IT'S THE BASEMENT. BUT IN 2030 IT'S THE, THE A DU PART IS THE UPSTAIRS. LIKE I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I THAT'S WHAT THE WAY YOU'RE ASKING IT, IT'S LIKE WHAT MAKES IT, WHAT MAKES YOU WANT US TO WORK ON CLARIFY THAT DU VERSUS THE WELL IT MAKES IT SEEM LIKE THE SMALLEST PORTION IS THE A DU. YEAH. NOT THAT THE OWNER, THE SMALLER PORTION, THE PRIMARY, THE PRIMARY IS GONNA BE YOUR LARGER SPACE ONLY, AND THE A D'S GONNA BE THE SMALLER PORTION. YEAH, IT MAKES SENSE TO US. I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF IT NEEDED TO BE, IT MAKES SENSE CLARIFIED THERE, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IT MAKES SENSE BECAUSE IF YOU WANNA STAY IN YOUR HOME, IT SAYS TO PREVENT OR TO ENCOURAGE AGING IN PLACE. SO IF YOU'RE AGING IN PLACE, LIKE MY GRANDMOTHER FOR INSTANCE LIVES A TOWN, VERY LARGE OLDER HOUSE, SHE WOULD WANT THE SMALLER PORTION OF THAT TO ALLOW A FAMILY MEMBER TO HAVE THE REST OF THE HOME THAT THEY NEED TO SUPPORT THEIR LOCAL FAMILY AND THEN TO AGE IN PLACE. RIGHT? SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT PROHIBITIVE. IT'S, IT'S THAT PIECE, BUT IT'S ALSO, I'M CONFUSED ABOUT THE FLOOR AREA. I MEAN WHY EVEN YEAH, WELL I'M STILL CONFUSED ABOUT PART C. I MEAN, IT IS THE INTENT TO HAVE A 500 SQUARE FEET MAXIMUM. A DU, THE TERM 80 DU. THAT'S HOW I THOUGHT THAT THE INTENT WAS THAT BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT'S NOT, IT DOESN'T READ LIKE THAT. LIKE I SAID, IT READS, IT READ THOUGH, IF I GOT, IF I GOT 10,000 SQUARE FEET, I CAN DO 3,300 SQUARE FEET AND THEN YEAH, WHICH IS GREAT. WHICH, WHICH I GUESS IS, IS FINE IF THAT'S WHAT THE INTENT IS. BUT IF THE INTENT IS TO MAX IS TO, THE 500 FEET IS TO MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THAT SHOULD SAY LESS SO. OH, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M GETTING AT. SO, OKAY. AND I'M GETTING AT WHY WOULD YOU DO, LIKE I SAID, I'VE GOT A BASELINE 1200 HUNDRED SQUARE FEET. WHY WOULD I, THEN I THEN YOU'RE MAKING, THEN I'D BE PARTITIONING IT ALL. AND THEN AT THAT POINT THEN THAT KIND OF GETS INTO OUR DEFINITION OF A MULTI-FAMILY, WHICH WOULD BE LIKE ONE STACK ON TOP OF THE OTHER ONE THAT BECOMES A SEPARATE DEFINITION. YEAH, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M, THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING. MAYBE THEY NEED IS THAT, IS IT DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS? LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? IF IT, TO ME AUXILIARY DWELLING IS IS AUXILIARY. IT'S NOT YEAH. THAT IT'S THE ONE THAT'S NOT THE MAIN DWELLING. RIGHT. UM, BUT THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THAT ARE PROHIBITED WHEN, LIKE, WHEN IT'S IN YOUR BASEMENT, LIKE NOW, LIKE SHE'S SAYING YOU CAN PUT A KITCHEN DOWN THERE, YOU PUT WHATEVER YOU WANT IT PUT DOWN THERE BECAUSE IT'S CONSIDERED AUXILIARY. BUT I'M JUST SAYING SQUARE FOOTAGE WISE, IF YOU HAVE A HOUSE THAT'S BIG ENOUGH THAT YOU'RE DOING THAT, AND I WOULD SAY A LOT OF HOMES ARE LIKE 2000 SQUARE FEET PROBABLY. RIGHT? SO YOU'RE TALKING, I THINK THE 500 IS, IS TOO LIMITING, YOU KNOW. BUT YEAH, I WOULD, I WOULD JUST SAY I WOULD AGREE IF IF 500 IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE LIMIT, THEN THAT SHOULD SAY FINE. BUT IF IT'S, IF IT'S GONNA BE GREATER, THAT'S, THAT'S FINE. IT COULD STAND AS IT IS. BUT AGAIN, YEAH, BECAUSE LIKE MY BASEMENT 1100 SQUARE FEET. RIGHT. BUT I HAVE THAT BACK GARAGE. BUT EVEN IF YOU TOOK THE REST OF IT, IT'S GONNA BE MORE THAN 500 SQUARE FEET. RIGHT? RIGHT. OKAY. I GOT TO YEAH, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE, WE HAVE A BREAKFAST MILK. YEAH. IS WHAT IT WOULD, IT'D BE A SMALL APARTMENT. YEAH, IT WOULD BE A VERY SMALL APARTMENT. MR. PETTY COMMENT. AND IT MIGHT REQUIRE YOU TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE DWELLING UNIT DEFINITION. 'CAUSE IT STATES IT HAS A NUMBER IN FOR 600 SQUARE FEET IN THE REGULAR DEFINITION. SO YOU JUST HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE NOT CONFLICTING WITH DEFINED AS A SEPARATE DWELLING UNIT. THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE REGARDING THE USE AND THE OTHER CODE SECTIONS IS IT'S IN R THREE, NOT THE JUMP HEAD AGENDA, BUT WE WILL BE TALKING ABOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. WILL YOU BE ALLOWED, IS THIS GOING TO CONFLICT WITH ANY, UH, CODE CHANGE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT? WOULD IT BE PROHIBITED IN HISTORIC DISTRICT OR WOULD IT BE SPECIAL USE PERMIT? THAT CODE DOESN'T EVEN ADDRESS THESE. SO WE WOULD NEED TO LEARN AND FIGURE OUT IF THAT WOULD BE PROCEED. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE F UM, NEEDS A LITTLE WORK BEFORE WE BRING IT BACK. RIGHT. BUT, BUT JUST TO HELP, UM, MS. CAPISH AND THE P COMMISSION, 'CAUSE I'M ASSUMING IT'S GONNA GO BACK TO THEM. WHAT ARE THE MAIN THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? PEOPLE ARE SAYING, C, YOU NEED TO LOOK AT C. THAT WAS WHAT YOU YEAH, I'M C IS YOUR, I MEAN, JUST [00:30:01] CLARIFY WHAT IT IS. AND MR. PETTY WAS SAYING TO GO AND THE DEFINITION NEEDS TO MATCH OR WHATEVER THE NUMBER ENDS UP BEING. OKAY. THESE COULD BECOME, UH, REGULAR RENTALS OR SHORT TERM RENTALS. NO, NOT SHORT TERM RENTS. YOU COULD RENT THEM OUT AS LONG AS YOU'RE LIVING ON THE PROPERTY. THEY CAN NEVER BE SOLD SEPARATELY. AND WE WOULDN'T LET THEM BE LIKE PERMITTED FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL. SO WE'RE, WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE IS WE'RE INCREASING DENSITY. RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS IN OUR POCKET. YEAH. OKAY. DOESN'T DOESN THE CODE, SAY SIX, 600 SQUARE FEET IS AS SMALL AS YOU CAN HAVE. WE'RE DWELLING UNIT RIGHT NOW. YOU CAN HAVE APARTMENTS THAT ARE, UM, MINIMUM IS TWO 50, BUT CAN'T, BUT THEY HAVE TO AVERAGE OUT TO 300. AND THEN THE DWELLING UNIT MINIMUM IS 600. SO WE MAY NEED TO REVIEW THAT WHEN WE START, WHEN WE CLARIFY WHAT KIND OF PARKING REQUIREMENTS. UH, WE DIDN'T ADD ANY PARKING REQUIREMENTS. PAGE 83 AVERSION DOES STATE THAT IT ADDS GENTLE DENSITY WITHOUT CHANGING THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER. RIGHT. BUT LIKE WHAT YOU DESCRIBED ABOUT LIKE MOVING DOWNSTAIRS OR WHATEVER, I DON'T SEE THAT AS AN A DUI. I SEE THAT AS LIKE, OH, EITHER, ALMOST LIKE A DIFFERENT, LIKE AN APARTMENT AREA. IT IS LIKE MULTIFAMILY. I MEAN, I KNOW YOU MIGHT ALL BE IN THE SAME FAMILY, BUT I'M JUST SAYING I DON'T, I SEE THIS AS MORE LIKE, UM, WELL, BUT LIKE IF YOU CAN GET LIKE I, LIKE I WOULD WRENCH MY DAUGHTER, LIKE IF I MOVED HER DOWNSTAIRS AND SHE'S FIGHTING UP THE FIT TO DO THIS, SO I'M HAPPY FOR THIS . UM, SHE'S JUMPING AT IT. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, SO I APPRECIATE HAVING YOU KNOW THIS, BUT I ALSO WONDERED ABOUT TINY HOUSE. IS TINY HOUSE CONSIDERED THAT? DID I SEE THAT OR NOT? SEE THAT? WHAT IS THAT NOW? SEE, I DON'T, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE YOUNG PEOPLE, TINY HOUSES ARE ON, LIKE, ON WHEELS. ARE THEY NOT LIKE YOU CAN DRAG THEM? NO, YOU CAN BUILD 'EM. YOU CAN BUILD 'EM, RIGHT. THE PROPERTY. I THOUGHT THEY WERE ON LIKE A TRAILER BED. AND WOULDN'T THAT BE AN A DU THAT'S WHAT I WANT IT TO BE. A TINY HOUSE OR CONTAINER HOUSE OR ALSO OTHERS ALSO ON PAGE 84. BUT THAT WOULD ALSO GET IN THE BUILDING SAYS DETACHED A CANNOT EXCEED 1000 SQUARE FEET OR 80% OF THE GROSS. YEAH. SO A DETACHED A DU CAN BE LARGER THAN A PORTION OF THE INTERNAL. SO, BUT THAT WOULD HAVE, THAT WOULD HAVE TO MATCH THE DEFINITION OF A DU THOUGH. RIGHT NOW IT SAYS 600 IN THE DEFINITION IT SAYS A THOUSAND RIGHT THERE. WELL, IT GIVES YOU, UM, FOR EXAMPLES, HOLD ON JUST A SECOND. FROM THE, THERE'S NAMED EXAMPLES IN HERE. I JUST PASSED. I THINK YOU DO NEED TO ADDRESS, YOU NEED TO HAVE A TALK ABOUT AND JUST KINDA LOOK AT IT. I KNOW IT'S GETTING INTO THE CONSTRUCTION PIECE OF IT, BUT AGAIN, THE TINY HOUSES, THE CONTAINER HOUSES, THOSE ARE THE POPULAR THINGS THAT THE YOUNG PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT. YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE RESTRICTED AND PROHIBITED BY THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT. AND THEY ARE. YEAH. SO THROUGH THE COUNTY THERE'S A MINIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THEY DON'T CURRENTLY PERMIT TINY HOUSES IN WARREN COUNTY. WELL, SO HOW WOULD, WHAT IS THIS GONNA BE? WELL, BUT YOU HAVE TO GET HER BUILDING PERMIT THROUGH THE COUNTY. SO THIS COMES BEFORE PLANNING. SHE COMES REVIEW, UM, A BACKYARD COTTAGE, A GRAN FLOOD. YEAH. WHICH PAGE? SEE TO ME, TINY. BUT IT SAYS A BACKYARD COTTAGE ON PAGE 75. RIGHT, RIGHT. AND THE THING TOO IS LIKE THEY HAVE TO MEET THE SETBACKS. SO AT SOME POINT IT CAN ONLY BE SO BIG AND IT'S NOT GONNA MEET THE SETBACKS ANYMORE. AND THE COUNTY JUST REWROTE OR IS IN THE PROCESS OF REWRITING. THEY'RE A DU OR NICK AS AS WELL. YEAH. I JUST SAW 'EM THERE LIKE A WEEK OR TWO AGO. THEY'RE CURRENTLY AT THE COUNTY. IT'S LIKE, IT'S A RANDOM NUMBER. MAYBE LIKE 600 AND SOME ODD SQUARE FEET IS THE MINIMUM. I WAS WATCHING THAT A WHILE BACK THOUGH. THEY DID THAT AROUND CHRISTMAS TIME. I THINK THAT'S WHY THE COTTAGES OF THE TRELLIS HAD TO BE BUILT ONTO TO MEET THE SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENTS THROUGH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT FOR THEM TO QUALIFY AS RESIDENCES. OKAY. THAT'S WHY THEY BUILT ADDITIONS ONTO THOSE. I WOULD PREFER THAT THIS COME BACK. TELL US ONE MORE TIME. 'CAUSE I ALSO, AND I READ THROUGH THE AGENDA BEFORE WE GOT HERE TONIGHT, BUT THIS HAS BROUGHT A LOT MORE, THE DISCUSSION THAT EVERYBODY ELSE HAS BROUGHT UP HAS BROUGHT MORE QUESTIONS AND CLARITY TO ME. WELL, THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE DO, WHY WE BRING, [00:35:01] I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT R ONE INCLUDED, BECAUSE I THINK IT DOES CHANGE THE DENSITY. ADDING THE DENSITY DOES CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF R ONE AND THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO, YOU KNOW, PARKING REQUIREMENTS, UH, YOU WANT MORE PARKING REQUIREMENTS. I'M SAYING THAT IT CHANGES THE, THE DENSITY. THE FACT IS, IS NOW YOU CAN, YOU, YOU COULD ACTUALLY RENT THIS OUT AS A LONG TERM RENTAL. SO, UM, WE, WE ARE PLAYING AROUND WITH THE R ONE DEFINITION. SO I HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT R ONE BEING WITH INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL OR MAYBE JUST THE EXTERNAL. I, I HAVE, I WANT TO LEAVE R ONE OUT OF IT PERSONALLY. OKAY. I, I, I HAVE, I HAVE ISSUES WITH R ONE, R ONE A. YOU'RE GONNA SEE R ONE A AND DEVELOPMENTS, YOU KNOW, UH, SO THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. BUT YOU DON'T SUPPORT SHORT TERM RENTALS IN R ONE EITHER, CORRECT? NO, I DON'T. RIGHT. SO YOUR POSITION ON THAT'S NOT GONNA CHANGE. I AM IN FAVOR OF IT BEING AN R ONE BECAUSE IT LISTS ON PAGE 82. THIS WOULD ENCOURAGE AUTONOMY AND DIGNITY FOR PARTICIPANTS SUCH AS THE CAREGIVERS TO LIVE ON SITE, UM, OR RETURNING COLLEGE KID, WHICH I KNOW YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT A LOT SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHEN YOUR KIDS WERE GRADUATING COLLEGE AND NEED TO MOVE BACK. BUT THERE'S NO AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN FRONT OR WARREN COUNTY. AND I WANT MY KIDS TO BE ABLE TO RETURN TO HOME EVEN IF IT MEANS ME ENCOURAGING THEM WITH RESPONSIBILITY OF PAYING FOR A SPACE OVER THE GARAGE. THAT IS AN EFFICIENCY FOR THEM. I MEAN, MY CHILDREN COMING BACK AFTER COLLEGE DOESN'T INCREASE THE DENSITY OF MY R ONE NEIGHBORHOOD BECAUSE THEY WERE THERE PRIOR TO LEAVING FOR COLLEGE. MY GRANDMOTHER GOING INTO AN ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY AND ME BRINGING HER BACK HOME TO TAKE CARE OF HER INSIDE OF MY HOME DOESN'T CHANGE THE DENSITY OF MY R ONE NEIGHBORHOOD. I MEAN, THIS IS PRETTY DEFINED FOR ESSENTIALLY PEOPLE, THE PURPOSES. YEAH. THE PURPOSE OF IT IS THAT IT'S MULTI-GENERATIONAL LIVING. SO THEY'RE HERE, THEY GO AWAY FOR FOUR YEARS, EIGHT YEARS WHEN I'M ON ONE, TWO, COME BACK AND STILL LIVE AT THEIR HOME. THAT WAS THEIR HOME THEIR ENTIRE CHILDHOOD. IT DOESN'T REALLY INCREASE THE DENSITY FOR THOSE PURPOSES. WELL, THEY'RE RUNNING ANY JOBS THAN . IT'S EASIER FOR THEM TO COMMUTE FURTHER IF THEY'RE RENTING FROM THEIR PARENTS. WHAT I FIND INTERESTING IS THAT IT ALREADY HAPPENS IN TOWN. LIKE I, I, I, SINCE I STARTED TEACHING, THERE'S A HOUSE HERE IN TOWN THAT, THAT A TEA, A TEACHER RENTED OUT THE BASEMENT AND SHARED THE WASHER AND DRYER SPACE. SURE. AND I MEAN, AND IT WAS A, IT WAS A TEACHER WHO WAS RENTING WHO BECAME A WIDOW AND RENTED IT OUT JUST BASICALLY TO BE ABLE TO, AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER SITUATION. I KNOW JUST MOST RECENTLY, LIKE THEY HAD, LIKE, I'VE CALLED LIKE A POOL HOUSE, BUT IT WAS LIKE A HOUSE TOTALLY. A SPACE TOTALLY SEPARATE. AND THEY RENTED IT OUT TO SOMEBODY. AND I I IT'S REALLY BRINGING INTO COMPLIANCE. NOT THAT . I'M PRETTY SURE THEY DIDN'T COME AND APPLY FOR ANYTHING. THEY EXISTED IN PEARL OIL PRIOR TO THIS. THAT'S WHY WHEN I SAW IT ON THE AGENDA, I WAS LIKE, OH, THIS IS GONNA BRING A LOT OF 'EM THAT ARE ALREADY EXISTING INTO COMPLIANCE. BUT THEY HAVE TO, THEY'LL HAVE TO, YOU'LL SEE THE REAL ESTATE LISTINGS TOO. PEOPLE WILL CALL AND THEN FIND A KITCHEN IN THEIR BASEMENT THAT WAS NOT PERMITTED. RIGHT. RIGHT. YEAH. ISSUE. ABSOLUTELY. BUT THEN, BUT THEN IF SOMETHING HAPPENS TO THEIR HOUSE, IT'S NOT INSURED. IF THEY NEVER GOT A BUILDING PERMIT FOR THAT KITCHEN, I'M JUST SAYING LIKE, ALL RIGHT, SOUNDS LIKE THIS HAS GOT SOME MORE WORK. YOU WANT IT TO GO BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION OR DO YOU WANT US TO JUST MAKE EDITS AND BRING IT BACK TO YOU? HOW WOULD WE KNOW IF THESE ARE EDITS THAT NEED TO BE MADE ADMINISTRATIVELY OR BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION? GEORGE, IS THERE A THRESHOLD CHANGES? LIKE IF I'M TWEAKING A COUPLE WORDS AND C CLARIFY IT, IT'S JUST COUNSEL'S PREROGATIVE WORK WITH IT OR SEND IT BACK. UH, WHAT CAN'T HAPPEN IS YOU CAN'T ADVERTISE A PUBLIC HEARING UNTIL YOU KNOW WHAT THE TEXT IS. OKAY. WELL ALSO FOR THE VOTE FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THERE WERE TWO PLANNING COMMISSIONERS ABSENT FROM THIS MEETING. DO WE KNOW IF THEY GAVE ANY INPUT? BROUGHT AN INPUT [00:40:01] DURING THE WORK COMMISSION. OKAY. I JUST WONDER IF IT WOULD'VE, UH, THE PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE, WE HAD A MAJORITY. RIGHT. I SEE THAT IT WOULD'VE ONLY BEEN TWO. UM, SO WITH TIMING, I THINK THAT, I THINK THIS SHOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF BEFORE THE WINTER. YEAH. SO WHAT WOULD MAKE THAT HAPPEN? LIKE WHAT PROCESS WOULD MAKE THAT HAPPEN IF WE DON'T ADVERTISE IT AFTER THIS WORK SESSION? WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THIS MONTH'S MEETING. RIGHT, TINA? RIGHT. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THE BEST THING TO DO IS TO BRING IT BACK AT AN OCTOBER WORK SESSION. QUESTION BEFORE THIS COUNCIL IS, DO YOU ALL WANT STAFF TO MAKE THE CHANGES FIRST OR DO YOU WANT IT TO GO BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION FOR A FULL ON LIKE REVIEW? THAT'S WHAT I WAS READING THROUGH THE BOOKS. I MEAN, I, I GUESS TOO, LIKE I'M LIKE WE'RE BRINGING THESE THINGS UP, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THESE WERE THINGS THAT PLANNING COMMISSION DID THINK OF OR IF WE'RE, YOU KNOW, THE STAFF BRING THEM TO PLANNING COMMISSION. YEAH. RIGHT. I MEAN WE HAD TWO WORK SESSIONS. I MEAN THIS WAS, THIS WAS BORN OUT OF THAT, OUT OF A DIFFERENT APPLICATION FOR A TAX AMENDMENT. SO THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS WITH MEMBERS OF COMMUNITY WAS STAFF OR PLANNING COMMISSION? BOTH. SO THE STAFF AND PLANNING COMMISSION, A COUPLE LIKE MYSELF, UH, DANIEL, JOHN, UH, MR. NEIL, YOU MET WITH PEOPLE. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS FOR COUNCIL TWO, COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE TO ASK THE MAYOR TO HAVE SOMETHING PLACED ON THE AGENDA. DID PLANNING COMMISSION ASK FOR THIS TO BE PLACED ON A WORK SESSION? OR DID STAFF SAY, WE THINK PLANNING COMMISSION NEEDS TO ADDRESS THIS? NO. PLANNING COMMISSION INITIATED. INITIATE. OKAY. YEAH, THEY INITIATED. OKAY. SO THE QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT STAFF TO MAKE THE TWEAKS OR SEND IT BACK TO, UM, A WORK SESSION WITH PLANNING COMMISSION AND THEN, AND THEN OF COURSE, I MEAN THEY STILL STILL GOTTA COME BACK TO US AGAIN IN A WORK SESSION, BUT I'D THINK IT WOULD MOVE QUICKER. WE LET STAFF. THAT'S FINE. YEP. I MEAN, IF EVERYBODY'S ELSE'S OKAY WITH THAT, I'D RATHER HAVE A GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION SINCE THERE WERE TWO MEMBERS MISSING. OKAY. IT JUST WOULDN'T CHANGE THE RESULTS OF THE APPROVAL THOUGH. THAT'S WHAT I WAS ORIGINALLY CONSIDERING. BUT IF YOU COUNT IT, IT WOULDN'T, EVEN IF THEY BOTH VOTED NO, IT STILL WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL. WELL, BUT THEY MAY RECONSIDER. YEAH. THEY COULD CALL EACH OTHER AND HAVE MEETINGS AND CHANGE THEIR MIND. WELL, I WILL SAY MAYBE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE BROUGHT UP HERE TONIGHT MIGHT SHARE MIGHT SHED A LITTLE BIT OF A MAGNIFYING ON IT. LIKE, OKAY, WHAT DO WE REALLY WANT THIS MEAN? AND ARE WE ARE ONE AND ARE WE THIS AND ARE WE THAT? SO, SO IN THIS, I MEAN, WE DID TWEAK THE DEFINITION OR THE INTENT OF THE R ONE DISTRICT AND THAT WAS A DISCUSSION. IT WAS, YOU KNOW, THEY WANTED TO ADD WHERE CHILDREN MAY OR MAY NOT BE PRESENT. UM, AND THEN ADDING IN THE A DU. SO THE WHOLE POINT OF THE R ONE IS THAT IT'S SUITABLE FOR FAMILY LIFE, BUT THEY DIDN'T WANT IT TO EXCLUDE PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T HAVE CHILDREN OR RETIRED OR . YEAH, I'M GONNA BE THE MINORITY. AND SO I WOULDN'T EVEN MAKE A OWNER OR OCCUPIED BECAUSE IF I DECIDED TO RETIRE AND LET ONE OF MY CHILDREN MOVE MY HOUSE FOR ME AND THEY WANT THEIR CHILDREN BECAUSE, AND LORD WILL, AND ONE OF 'EM WILL HAVE THEIR OWN CHILDREN TO RENT OUT THE APARTMENT THAT WE'RE GONNA MAKE OVER OUR GARAGE FOR OUR OLDEST WHILE SHE'S IN COLLEGE. I'D WANT MY KIDS AND MY GRANDKIDS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE AN A IN MY OWN HOME THAT I OWN. SO I THINK THAT'S THE TRUE DEFINITION OF GIVING THE HOMEOWNER AUTONOMY. UM, IT, IT SOUNDS LIKE IT SHOULD GO BACK TO PLANNING DEFINITION . WELL, I MEAN IF WE'RE, IF WE'RE GONNA ADD, IF, IF, IF, IF WE'RE MAKING CLERICAL CHANGES JUST TO MAKE SURE THE NOTHING CONTRADICTS ITSELF WITHIN THE DEFINITIONS, I'D SAY IT'S FINE HAVE OR STAFF TAKE CARE OF IT. BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE TALKING MORE SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES WITH, UH, QUESTIONS ABOUT SQUARE FEET. AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF LAUREN HAS YET TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE EVEN, UH, ASKING HER TO, TO GO BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION WITH YET. I MEAN, UM, MY HOPE IS THAT YOU'LL BE ABLE TO LEAVE HERE AND KNOW WHAT, KNOW WHAT POINTS OF DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW. I DON'T RIGHT NOW I'M, I'M, I'M CONFUSED RIGHT NOW. I MEAN, I'M NOT CONFUSED, BUT I MEAN, I, I UNDERSTAND THE SQUARE FOOTAGE MINIMUM. I THINK I'VE ALREADY FIGURED OUT IN MY HEAD WHAT TWEAKS I NEED TO MAKE TO THAT. UM, OKAY, WELL THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S A C I'LL LOOK AT THAT AS A CLERICAL CASE OR SOMETHING. I MEAN, IN MY MIND, THESE ARE CLERICAL CHANGES, RIGHT. I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT PLANNING COMMISSION NEEDS I I WOULD AGREE TO THAT. THAT'S MY THOUGHT ON IT. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. MY MY CLERICAL STUFF. I THINK CLERICAL STUFF, YES. BUT IF THERE'S SOME OR MAJOR CHANGES OUT OCCUPIED OR CHANGING THE R ONE YOU WANT, THOSE AREN'T, AREN'T ARE SUBSTANCES. IF YOU WANT THE OWNER OCCUPIED CHANGE MADE, THAT REALLY SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT PLANNING COMMISSION. CORRECT. YES, I AGREE WITH THAT. NOW, AFTER HEARING THIS, THEY [00:45:01] THINK ABOUT THE WE ABSENT, CORRECT? YEAH. SO THEY CAN HAVE MORE INFO TOO. I AGREE WITH WHATEVER, WHATEVER PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, DOES WITH IT. IF IT, IF WE DECIDE TO SEND IT BACK TO 'EM. THE FOCUS IS ON R ONE, THE DEFINITION LOW DENSITY, AGAIN, LOW DENSITY. SO YOU HAVE MULTIPLE HOMES IN R ONE. AND LET'S SAY EVERYONE IN R ONE DECIDE THEY WANT AN A DU. SO NOW YOU'VE INCREASED THE DENSITY. SO IT DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF AN R ONE. THAT'S MY WHOLE POINT. MY CHILD COMING BACK FROM COLLEGE TO STAY IN AN AUXILIARY UNIT IN MY HOME IS NOT INCREASING THE DENSITY. IT'S REPLACING IT. WELL THAT'S, BUT THAT MIGHT NOT BE EVERY CASE. IT MIGHT NOT BE. BUT WHAT I WAS SAYING WITH THAT IS WHEN SHORT TERM RENTALS BECAME A THING PRIOR TO ANYBODY ELSE SITTING HERE, OTHER THAN YOU AND I, EVERYBODY WAS LIKE, OH MY GOD, EVERY INVESTOR'S GONNA BUY EVERY HOUSE IN FRONT ROYAL AND MAKE OF A SHORT TERM RENTAL. AND THAT'S BEEN NOTHING BUT FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. I I THINK THE EFFECT'S GONNA BE NEGLIGIBLE. I MEAN, YOU'RE TAKING SPACE THAT'S ALREADY THERE AND YOU'RE SAYING, I'M SEEING 10 APPLICATIONS AND YOU'RE MAKING A BEDROOM OUT OF IT. IT'S, IT'S, TO ME, IT'S, THAT'S WHAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN ANYBODY HAVING A KID. HE EXISTED BEFORE WE APPROVED HIM. I SAY I PULLED THEM UP HERE IN A MEETING WITH A DIFFERENT MAYOR SITTING HERE AND THERE WERE AIRBNBS LISTED PRIOR TO EVER HAVING A SHORT TERM RENTAL ORDINANCE. SO WE CAN EITHER MAKE MONEY OFF OF IT AND WE CAN HAVE TIONS SOMEBODY MOVE THEM EXTRA BEDROOMS. BUT I WAS GONNA SAY, SOME HOMES LIKE WITH DENSITY, IF YOU'VE GOT 10 KIDS AND THEN SIX OF 'EM GO AWAY AND THREE OF 'EM LIVE IN THE BA, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW. ANYWAY, I THINK, I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE IT NEEDS TO GO BACK TO PLANNING. YES. OKAY. SO TO THAT POINT, WE COULD MAKE, UM, SUGGESTIONS BY NEXT WEEK. WE CAN HAVE IT AS AN ACTION ITEM NEXT WEEK. IF YOU'RE NOT GOOD WITH THE CHANGES THAT WE DO, YOU CAN ALWAYS KICK IT BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION NEXT WEEK. WHEN YOU SAY AN ACTION ITEM, IT REQUIRES A VOTE, IT WOULD REQUIRE A VOTE TO SEND IT BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION. AH, OKAY. SO NEXT MONDAY WE WOULD NEED AN ACTION ITEM ITEM JUST IN CASE YOU WANT IT TO GO BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION. THE ITEM'S NOT DESCRIBED FOR TONIGHT AS A POTENTIAL ACTION ITEM. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO. SO WE HAVE TO, SO NEXT WEEK YOU'LL BRING IT BACK WITH SOME CHANGES AND IF IT'S NOT SATISFACTORY ENOUGH, THEN WE ACTUALLY WOULD YEAH, KEEP IT BACK. TAKE THE VOTE. YEAH. YEAH. EVEN IF IT CAN TAKE A VOTE AT THE WORK SESSION FACTORY LANGUAGE, IF IT'S NOTICED THAT WAY. IF IT'S NEEDED TO, IF IT'S NOTICED THAT WAY. GOTCHA. OKAY. ARE YOU, YOU'RE ALSO THREE'S UNFINISHED BUSINESS ZONING TEXT MOMENTS, TOWN CODE 1 75 DASH 84 POINT B TO AD LANGUAGE RESTRICTING THE REDEVELOPMENT OF HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL CYCLE. I HAVE TWO G NEXTS ONE. YOU MISSED TWO G. OH GOD. SORRY. THESE ALL JUST SEEM G PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. SORRY, WHAT I THOUGHT NEXT. SORRY. YES. IS THAT WHAT YOU G? YEAH. ALRIGHT. I CAN ONLY TELL YOU I HAVEN'T HAD CAFFEINE FOR TWO DAYS. I'M TRYING TO DROP IT. , CAN'T DO MY LIFE AGAIN. DO THAT. SHE DOES THIS ONCE A YEAR. DAUGHTER HER IN HERE. I REALLY AM JEALOUS. YOUR NOT I BRING, I LIKE REALLY? GO AHEAD. THIS ONE ORIGINATED FROM THE, I THINK IT WAS THE WORK SESSION WE HAD IN JULY DISCUSSING THE CHANGES WE WANTED TO SEE IN THE SHORT TERM RENTAL ORDINANCE. UM, SO WE TOOK THIS OPPORTUNITY TO RETITLE IT TO ONE 14, WHICH PUTS IN THE APPROPRIATE SPOT IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE. THAT'S JUST AN ADMINISTRATIVE CHANGE. UM, CHANGE THE APPLICATION FEE TO REFLECT OUR CURRENT SCHEDULE OF FEES. SO FROM 400 TO $1,200, UM, WE REMOVED THE PARKING REQUIREMENT. SO STAFF DOESN'T HAVE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION FOR YOU TO DENY BASED ON PARKING NOW. UM, BUT THIS IS FOR, YOU KNOW, EXISTING PROPERTIES. ANY NEW DWELLING THAT'S BUILT STILL HAS TO PROVIDE THE OFF STREET PARKING. AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME THROUGH THE PROCESS. IF THEY WANNA BUILD SOMETHING NEW AND TURN IT INTO A SHORT TERM RENTAL, THEY WOULD STILL HAVE EXISTING DWELLING UNITS IN TOWN THAT APPLY. DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO CONFORM IF THEY DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE ALL THE . UM, AND THEN WE UPDATED, WE REMOVED THE LANGUAGE WITH THE DATE OF THE BUILDING CODE REFERENCE BECAUSE IT CHANGES EVERY TWO YEARS AND THERE'S NO SENSE IN PUTTING A SPECIFIC YEAR THERE THAT WE HAVE TO CONSTANTLY AMEND. SO WE JUST SAID THE CURRENT STATEWIDE OR UNIFORM STATEWIDE BUILDING CODE. UM, AND THEN WHILE WE WERE AT IT, WE JUST MOVED THE TOBACCO, UM, PERFORMANCE STANDARDS TO THE RIGHT PLACE AS WELL. WE JUST TRY TO CLEAN UP THAT WHOLE SECTION [00:50:01] OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE WITH THIS. ANY QUESTIONS? NO, I'M, I JUST CALLED IT OUT LIKE THIS IN THE, WITH THE MAINTENANCE, LIKE THIS READ, I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT BIG SHOPS. SURE. THAT ONE'S BEFORE THE TOWN. RIGHT NOW, THE OLD BB AND T ON THE CORNER OF SHENANDOAH AVENUE, PEOPLE MIGHT BE MYSTERIOUS. PEOPLE KEEP ASKING ME LIKE, WE, WE APPROVE THEM AND I'M LIKE, I DON'T KNOW. I SEE WHAT YOU, WE THERE IS AN APPROVED DEMO PERMIT AND THEN WE TOOK THEM BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UM, BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR MM-HMM . TO GET AN APPROVAL. THAT PLAN DID STATE, UM, IT LOOKED LIKE PLANS WERE A VAPE SHOP BECAUSE IT HAD LIKE THE VENTILATION SYSTEMS THAT WAS SHOWING THE DISPLAY AREA, LIKE A CIGAR ROOM, BUT NOTHING SPECIFIC WAS LAID OUT. AND THEN THEY HAD ANOTHER RETAIL SPACE THAT WAS YEAH. THE OWNER. YEAH. SO THERE, IT LOOKED AS THOUGH THERE WERE TWO OR TWO RETAIL SPACES, SEPARATE BUSINESSES. THEY WERE DOING DEMOLITION TODAY, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT SOLD OR IF IT'S ON THE CONTRACT. I HAVEN'T SAY THERE WAS, IT WAS, THERE WAS A FOR SALE SIGN IN FRONT OF IT YESTERDAY. HOW COULD YOU TELL IT WAS UNDER DEMOLITION ? I WATCHED, I WATCHED REMOVING BREAKS TODAY. TODAY. AND THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ASK ME. I'M LIKE, I KNOW WHAT, YOU KNOW, I'M LOOKING AT WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE, I I JUST WANTED TO, I KNOW THAT PEOPLE WILL ASK ABOUT THIS IS THE, UM, ONE TIME APPLICATION FEE MM-HMM . FOR THE SHORT, SHORT TERM RENTALS. AND AGAIN, BECAUSE I WAS ON COUNSEL WHEN SHORT TERM RENTALS WERE APPROVED, UM, WE REALLY STRUGGLED WITH THE PRICE AT THE TIME. LIKE NOT THE PRICE, THE APPLICATION FEE. AND PEOPLE THOUGHT $400 WAS A LOT. UM, BUT COUNTY PAID 200. NO, I KNOW, I KNOW. I GOT WHAT IS THE, WHAT DO THEY PAY THEN? 22 OR 2,500. OKAY. OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. FOUR. YEAH. I, I JUST, I WANT YOU TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK TO THE REASON WHY WE'RE GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY INCREASING IT LIKE 200%. WHAT WOULD THAT BE? EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE REQUIRES STAFF TO TAKE IN THE APPLICATION, ROUTE THE APPLICATION NOT ONLY TO US, BUT TO THE COUNTY. THAT TAKES TIME. AND THEN WE HAVE TO DO AT LEAST ONE INSPECTION, TYPICALLY TWO. UM, AND JUST PROCESSING AND SITTING PLANNING COMMISSION PAYING THE ADVERTISING FEE. AND THEN IT COMES TO YOU. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT COSTS TO SIT TOWN COUNCIL, BUT I WILL SAY ONE OF THE OTHER CONCERNS AT THAT TIME OF THAT COUNCIL WAS THERE WERE ALREADY EXISTING SHORT TERM RENTALS THAT WERE NOT PERMITTED IN THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL. AND WE WERE TRYING NOT TO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM DOING THE RIGHT THING AND GETTING THEIR APPLICATION SUBMITTED TO HAVE 'EM APPROVED BY DETERRING FROM THE COST. SO IT WAS LIKE WE WENT TO RECOUPING A PORTION OF THE COST BY IMPLEMENTING THAT $400, BUT NOT DETERRING PEOPLE FROM JUST OPERATING THEM ILLEGALLY BECAUSE UNLESS THEY'RE CAUGHT, LIKE THERE'S ONE BEFORE US TONIGHT THAT'S BEEN OPERATING AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL THAT DID NOT HAVE A PERMIT. SO IT'S, THAT'S GONNA BE A TOUGH ONE TO SWALLOW BECAUSE THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA APPLY OR BE DETERRED BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT, THEY'RE GONNA STILL DO IT WHETHER THEY APPLY OR NOT. AND WE'RE UP TO I THINK 21 OR 22 AND HOW MANY YEARS RENTALS? FOUR, TWO. THREE YEARS. THREE YEARS. SO LESS THAN 10 PER YEAR. I'VE ONLY BEEN HERE, WE WERE SERVING WITH ME WHEN THAT HAPPENED. AND IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE DOWN THERE. UM, YOU GOT THE DATA TO SUPPORT THAT NUMBER, RIGHT? I THE INQUIRY YOU HAVE THE DATA, RIGHT? YEAH. I'M NOT NEGATING THAT WHATSOEVER. I JUST THINK MORE PEOPLE WILL BE DETERRED FROM DOING IT LEGALLY. ASK FOR FORGIVENESS, SUBMIT YOUR APPLICATION YEARS LATER THAN TO ASK FOR PERMISSION, IS WHAT WE'RE GONNA SEE. THAT'S A GIVEN. YEP. UNTIL YOU GET CAUGHT. WHY NOT SAVE YOUR MONEY? BUT YOU'VE ALREADY APPROVED THESE FEES. THESE ARE PART OF THE SCHEDULE OF FEES. RIGHT. ALREADY GONE THROUGH. RIGHT. WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY TOO IS, BUT THAT'S A ONE TIME THING. IF, IF PEOPLE HAVE TO COME OUT AND INSPECT ANYTHING OVER AND OVER AGAIN OR SOMETHING CHANGES OR WE GET COMPLAINTS, THERE'S NO OTHER CHARGE. IT'S THAT ONE TIME. AND THAT'S, SO, AND WE'RE BASING THIS KIND OF ON THE, I MEAN WE'RE BASING THIS ON LIKE THE VACATION, RIGHT? THE SHORT TERM VACATION VERSUS A SHORT TERM RESIDENTIAL KIND OF SITUATION WHERE IT'S [00:55:01] LIKE MONTH TO MONTH. THOSE ARE MIDTERMS. WELL THOSE, ONCE THEY EXCEED 30 DAYS, WE HAVE NO REGULATION OVER WHETHER, LIKE IF YOU RENT TO SOMEBODY ON A MONTH TO MONTH, WE DON'T. THAT'S NOT A ZONING THING. SO, SO MY WELL, AND THE REASON WHY I WAS SAYING THAT, TO CLARIFY WHAT THAT MEANT WAS BECAUSE THAT ONE TIME APPLICATION FEE OF $1,200, THAT'S PROBABLY CLOSE TO ONE WEEK WHAT YOU'D MAKE AND UH, WHAT YOU WOULD MAKE. SO IT'S, IF YOU'RE DOING A VACATION SHORT TERM RENTAL AND YOU'RE RENTING IT OUT AND MAKING THE MONEY MONEY, THAT'S PROBABLY A OKAY FEE. I MEAN, YES, IT'S GONNA HURT INITIALLY, BUT THEY'RE GONNA MAKE THAT BACK. OH, SOME OF 'EM ARE RENTING FOR THAT FOR A NIGHT IN FRONT ROYAL FOR A NIGHT. OH MY GOD. WHAT WERE YOU GONNA SAY? WHERE'S THAT BACK? LET'S TRY TO, SO THE FEES, THIS $1,200 FEE WAS ALREADY APPROVED. IT'S PART OF 1 75 DASH 1 37 AND PLANNING FEES, CHARGING ON EXPENSES. CAN WE JUST REMOVE THAT ONE SO IT'S NOT DUPLICATED? 'CAUSE IF YOU EVER AMEND THE FEES AND YOU HAVE TO AMEND THIS ORDINANCE, IT SHOULD JUST, IT'S IN THE FEE, IT'S ALREADY IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE. SO TO JUST BE REMOVED FROM THIS SECTION. SHOULD THEY DO THAT THROUGHOUT THEN TOO TO WE CAN DOUBLE CHECK TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NO DUPLICATION THAT WAY AGAIN, YOU'RE NOT HAVING TO GO BACK AND CHANGE TWO DIFFERENT CODES EVERY TIME YOU HAVE TO CHANGE. YOU'RE JUST CHANGING THE FEE SCHEDULE. VERY GOOD. I THINK THIS IS THE ONLY PERFORMANCE INTERSECTION WHERE WE LIST THE FEE. I THINK SO. GOOD. OKAY. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? UM, COUNCILMAN WOOD, DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANTED TO ASK OR ADD OR, YES. MAD MAYOR, I'D LIKE TO ASK COUNCILOR, WHAT, WHAT IS THE RECOURSE THAT WE FOLLOW TO FIND OUT SOMEONE IS OPERATING A SHORT TERM RENTAL WITHOUT, UH, A PERMIT OR APPROVAL? THIS IS ZONING VIOLATION. CLASS ONE MISDEMEANOR. UH, I THINK A THOUSAND DOLLARS FINE IS SPECIFIED IN TOWN CODE, WHICH NORMALLY A MISDEMEANOR IS 2,500. UH, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S CRIMINAL. IT'S A CRIMINAL VIOLATION THAT I WOULD SUGGEST WE STICK WITH THE RECOMMENDATION OF OUR STAFF BECAUSE THE PENALTY, IF, UH, THEY ASK FOR FORGIVENESS LATER, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE A FINE AND WE'RE STILL GONNA HAVE TO PAY IT. SO PERHAPS THE LEGAL WAY WOULD BE THE BEST WAY. PLUS ORDER REMIND COUNSEL THAT WE'RE ALLOWING SOMEONE TO RENT OUR HOUSE, WHICH COMPETES AGAINST OUR, YOU DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE COLLECTING TAXES FROM 'EM. IT COMPETES AGAINST WHO COMPETES AGAINST WHO, WHAT WERE YOU SAYING? I COULDN'T HEAR YOU. I'M SORRY. WE'RE ALLOWING SHORT TERM RENTALS TO COMPETE AGAINST OUR COMMERCIAL ENTITIES, OUR MOTEL, SUCH AS, SO I DON'T SEE WHY WE DON'T WANT TO TREAT THEM MORE LIKE A BUSINESS INSTEAD OF SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO SOMETHING WITH THEIR HOUSE THAT IF SOME AN ADVANTAGE OVER THEIR COMPETITORS. WE KNOW AT LEAST OUR COMMERCIAL ENTITIES ARE PAYING THE LOGIC TAX. WITHOUT TALKING TO MR. WILSON, I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'RE COLLECTING TAXES FROM ALL THE STORE TERM RENTALS. THAT'S BEEN MY CONCERN SINCE I'VE COME ON THE COUNCIL THAT ALLOWING PEOPLE TO DO THIS. THERE'S NOTHING IN ORDINANCE REQUIRING THEM TO SEND US A MONTHLY STATEMENT TO OUR FINANCE DEPARTMENT SAYING, WELL, WE RENTED IT AND THERE'S TWO NIGHTS AND USE THE TAX APPROPRIATE. I THINK THAT'S A FLAW IN OUR ORDINANCE FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTAL. WELL ALREADY THE LODGING THOUGH DOESN'T EVEN COME DIRECTLY TO US, RIGHT? IT DOESN'T, IT GO TO IT'S A PASS THROUGH. YEAH, IT'S A PASS THROUGH. THE TOWN DOESN'T GET THE LODGING TAX FROM THE COUNTY TO US. DOESN'T GO TO NO, WE LODGING, WE GET IT. BUT DOESN'T GO TO THE COUNTY. OR AM I THINKING OF, WHAT AM I THINKING? THE HOTELS, THAT'S THEIR LOGIC TEST. WE GET OUR OWN LOGIC TEST. OKAY. I WAS NOT RECOMMENDING THAT WE NOT CHARGE THE 12, THE $1,200 WAS VOTED ON AND I THOUGHT EVERYBODY SITTING ON THIS COUNCIL KNEW THAT MADAM MAYOR WANTED TO ADDRESS IT FOR THE PUBLIC AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA SEE THIS PACKET, BECAUSE IT'S HIGHLIGHTED IN RED TO JUSTIFY WHY THAT WAS ALREADY DONE. IT'S DONE. I WASN'T SUGGESTING THAT WE NOT DO IT OR WE NOT FOLLOW STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS ON IT. I SAID WHAT? I SAID, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S WORTH 1200 PLUS DOLLARS. I WAS JUST STATING THAT I THOUGHT WE WERE ALL VERY WELL AWARE THAT IT WAS HAPPENING WITH OR WITHOUT PERMISSION. AND MY UNDERSTANDING TO LEGAL COUNSEL AND MS. CAPISH IS THAT YES, IF THEY'RE CAUGHT OR REPORTED, IT IS A MISDEMEANOR. HOWEVER, IF THEY SUBMIT [01:00:01] THEIR APPLICATION, WE DO NOT PURSUE CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST THESE PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY'RE MAKING AN EFFORT TO BRING IT INTO COMPLIANCE. COMPLIANCE. SO WE HAVE NOT ONE PERSON THAT HAS COME BEFORE US AND ASKED FORGIVENESS HAS NOT BEEN PURSUED LEGALLY FOR A MISDEMEANOR OVER THIS. IS THAT CORRECT? FINE. SO WE'RE NOT PURSUING LEGAL ACTION FOR THE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T FOLLOWING IT. OKAY. HOLD ON. YEP. SO I KNOW ONE THING THAT COUNCILMAN WOOD BROUGHT UP THAT IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING WE, WE'VE SHARED CONCERNS ABOUT BEFORE, BUT I THINK IT'S EVEN BEEN SHARED AT THE STATE LEVEL LIKE THAT, THAT NOBODY IS NO, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH, UM, ACCOUNTABILITY TO THOSE THAT ARE USING SHORT TERM RENTALS AND HOW WE'RE GETTING OUR LOD TAX. AND THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT JUST THIS COUNCIL'S OPINION, THIS IS OUR FINANCE DEPARTMENT AND OTHER LOCALITIES. I BELIEVE THEY'VE ALL DISCUSSED THIS BEFORE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WISH THERE WAS SOME WAY THAT THERE WAS SOME, YOU KNOW, ACCOUNTABILITY. LIKE THEY CAN TELL US HERE'S WHAT WE'RE, HERE'S THE LODGING TAX. BUT AS COUNCILMAN WOOD SAID, WE DON'T KNOW, DID THEY RENT IT? YOU KNOW, DID THEY RENT IT FIVE TIMES OVER THE MONTH OR ONLY ONE VERSUS A LIKE A COMMERCIAL, LIKE A HOTEL. YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY, YOU KNOW, HAVE RECORDS, BUT, BUT I KNOW THAT THEY TALKED ABOUT THAT LIKE, UM, BML YEAH, I WAS A PART OF THE, THEY TALKED ABOUT IT, BUT I DON'T THINK ANYTHING'S REALLY COME OUT ABOUT IT. SO TOO PERSONAL INFORMATION. I MEAN YEP. WHY WOULD I WANT, WHY WOULD I WANT THE TOWN OR COUNTY TO KNOW THAT I RENTED A SHORT TERM RENTAL HERE FOR A WEEKEND? CORRECT. WHAT'S, WHY DO THEY NEED, WHY DO THEY NEED TO KNOW MY INFORMATION FOR THAT? RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND MAYBE THAT'S WHAT'S PAUSING PEOPLE. THAT'S, THAT IS WHAT'S PAUSING A LOT OF IT. I MEAN, FROM SHORT TERM RENTAL HOMES THAT I KNOW IS, BUT THEY, THEY FRAUGHT WITH THAT IS LIKE, AND THEY'VE ASKED A QUESTION, WHY DO WHAT, WHY DO YOU NEED TO SEE THE NAMES OF MY CLIENTS? OR WHY DO YOU SEE, YOU KNOW, OR RIGHT. YOU KNOW, SO SPEAKING FOR, SO BJ'S NOT HERE. SO SPEAKING FOR BJ, I THINK THE PRIMARY CONCERN IS THE LOCATION OF THE SHORT TERM RENTAL. HE WANTS TO KNOW, HE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO CONFIRM IT'S IN TOWN. IF IT'S NOT, WE'RE NOT ENTITLED TO THE, THE TAXES. MM-HMM . SO WHEN, UH, INTERMEDIARIES INVOLVED, SUCH AS AN AIRBNB, UH, THEY JUST SUBMIT A CHECK WITHOUT ANY INFORMATION AS TO LOCATIONS THAT'S, THAT'S THE PROBLEM. AND MAYBE A SHORT TERM RENTALS BECOME MORE AND MORE POPULAR THAT THEY'LL FIGURE OUT A BETTER WAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. BUT YES, SO THERE IS A DISCUSSION GOING ON. BJ'S BEEN PART OF IT WITH THE COMMISSIONER OF THE REVENUES WITHOUT THE STATE AND AIRBNB WITH THE STATE TO BE COMPLIANT WITH STATE CODE. THEY'RE SETTING UP A SECURE PORTAL THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, LOCALITIES WILL HAVE CREDENTIALS TO SIGN IN AND CAN VERIFY THOSE PAYMENTS. AS FAR AS I'M AWARE, IT HA IT'S NOT COMPLETELY DONE YET, BUT THERE'S BEEN SOME ONGOING DISCUSSION BETWEEN BML AND THE STATE AND THE FINANCE DIRECTORS THROUGHOUT THE LOCALITY. I KNOW BJ'S BEEN KIND OF ON TOP OF THAT. WE'RE JUST STILL WAITING TO GET THE FULL ACCESS, BUT IT'S, WE GOT THE PRESENTATION FROM AIRBNB. THEY SEEM TO BE THE ONES THAT, WOW. AND THE OTHER ISSUE WITH THAT, AND I'M SURE BJ WOULD ECHO THE SENTIMENT, IF YOU GET A SHORT TERM RENTAL PERMIT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE AIRBNB. CORRECT. THERE'S 15 DIFFERENT WEBSITES. I COULD LIST MY SHORT TERM RENTAL ONE AND IT'S NOT AIRBNB, SO THAT'LL HELP THE BULK AND THE MAJORITY. BUT AGAIN, BEING ONE ON THIS COUNCIL WHO'S FOUR LOWER TAXES AND FOUR PROPERTY OWNERS RIGHTS, I JUST REALLY TAKE OFFENSE AND ISSUE AS A HOMEOWNER IN THE TOWN OF CURRENT ROYAL SINCE I WAS 18 YEARS OLD, TO REMEMBER WE ARE ALLOWING THEM TO COMPETE. NO, THEY BOUGHT THEIR HOME, THEY OWN IT AND THEY PAY THEIR RESIDENTIAL REAL ESTATE TAXES ON IT. AND I'D RATHER SEE 50 SHORT TERM RENTALS IN THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL THAN 50 BLIGHTED BUILDINGS THAT THE HOMEOWNERS AREN'T MAKING AN INCOME OFF OF OR USING OR TAKING CARE OF OR MAINTAINING. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, UM, SHORT TERM RENTALS ARE NOT PER REDISCUSSION. THAT'S NOT WHAT'S ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT. SPEAKING OF THAT, TWO G IS ABOUT THE ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 1 75. SO THE QUESTION IS, ARE WE READY TO MOVE THAT TO PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE END OF SEPTEMBER? THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE WANNA KNOW ABOUT TWO G. YES. MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. I HAVE ISSUES WITH BEING [01:05:01] COMBINED. THE BIG TRUCKS AND THE YES. OKAY. SO YOU BELIEVE WE OUGHT TO HAVE 'EM AS TWO SEPARATE TWO SEPARATE PUBLIC HEARINGS? BELIEVE WE HAVE TWO, TWO SEPARATE. DID THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAVE TWO SEPARATE PUBLIC HEARINGS CALLED ONE WE SUBMITTED AND THE REASON DISCUSS IT IN THE WORK SESSION THAT WAY? THE REASON FOR THAT IS BE BECAUSE, UH, WE LINED OUT E IT IS GONNA PUT ME IN A, IN A, IN A POSITION BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD HAVE PARKING REQUIREMENTS. SO YOU WANT TO VOTE ON ONLY ONE OF THESE, NOT BOTH OF THESE. CORRECT. WELL, THEN YOU WOULD JUST HAVE TO AT THE SAME TIME. AT THE SAME TIME. OH, I SEE. SO WHAT, OKAY. I I UNDERSTAND. YEAH. WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THERE ARE TWO IN YOUR MIND, THERE ARE TWO SEPARATE ISSUES. THE SHORT TERM RENTAL YEP. AND THE VAPE SHOP. YEAH. AND SO IF WE WERE GOING TO VISIT THOSE AS TWO SEPARATE ITEMS, THEY WOULD HAVE TWO SEPARATE PUBLIC HEARINGS AND THERE WOULD BE A VOTE ON ONE AND A VOTE ON THE OTHER. MS. PRESLEY IS THERE YOUR SHE'S KIND OF OUR RESIDENT. I DON'T TELL US CAN WE LEGALLY HAVE A DIFFERENT PUBLIC HEARING THAN THE PUBLIC HEARING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAD TO HAVE TO BRING IT FORWARD FOR A PUBLIC HEARING FOR US? OR SHOULD THEY GO BACK AND HAVE TWO SEPARATE PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THEY SHOULD BECAUSE THEIR VOTE, THE PLANNING COMMISSIONER'S RECORDED VOTE IN THESE MINUTES ARE FOR ALL OF THIS COMBINED THAT COULD HAVE CHANGED THEIR VOTES IF IT WAS BROKEN OUT SEPARATELY. YEAH, I'M, WE'RE NOT DOING, I GUESS I'M NOT, I'M NOT QUITE GRASPING THE YEAH, I MEAN THE PROBLEM WITH IT BEING COMBINED. SO VAPE SHOP'S JUST A REIFICATION? NO, THERE'S NO TEXT. HE WOULD VOTE IN FAVOR OF THAT, BUT NOT THE SHORT TERM RENTAL CHANGE. THERE'S NO TEXT FOR HIS RECORD OF BOTH. YEAH. BUT THE PROBLEM'S GONNA BE BECAUSE THEY, BECAUSE WE'VE, UH, LINED OUT PARKING REQUIREMENTS. IT'S GONNA PUT ME IN A POSITION. WE'RE NOT DOING A LINE ITEM VETO SORT OF THING. YEAH. THAT'S, THAT'S BUT NOT, WELL, YOU, YOU CAN STILL MAKE, YOU CAN STILL MAKE THE POINT, BRUCE. BUT I THINK LIKE WHAT GEORGE'S SAYING, SINCE IT'S JUST A, IT'S FINE, IT'S FINE IF YOU GUYS WANT TO DO IT. I'M JUST THAT, THAT'S GONNA PUT ME IN A POSITION TO VOTE AGAINST IT. SO I HAD TO GIVE UP MY VOTE ONCE OR TWICE TOO, AND I WASN'T IN FAVOR OF IT. SO, UM, I AM OKAY WITH WHO SEPARATING IT OUT IF THERE'S NO LEGAL OPPOSITION TO IT. IT'S NOT THE PUBLIC HEARING THAT WAS ADVERTISED FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION. AND IT MAY HAVE CHANGED THEIR RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION IF IT WAS TWO SEPARATE. WELL, EVEN IF JUST LIKE, IT WOULD'VE, WHETHER OR NOT THEY RECOMMENDED OR DON'T RECOMMEND IT, THE COUNCIL WOULD BE THE FINAL NO, THERE'S SOME COUNCIL PEOPLE IN HERE WHO ONLY GO BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S RECOMMENDATIONS. SO THIS COULD HAVE CHANGED THEIR RECOMMENDATION, THEREFORE COUNSEL'S OPINION ON IT. MR. SONEN, YOUR LEGAL OPINION. I JUST, WE JUST NEED TO KNOW IF, IF THERE IS, I DON'T DISAGREE WITH, UM, WHAT THE VICE MAYOR HAS SAID. OKAY. SO IT COULD, YOU DON'T KNOW. IT COULD HAVE OKAY. UH, AFFECTED VOTES. OKAY. GOTCHA. EVEN THOUGH IT'S JUST A REIFICATION, I DON'T SEE ANY CHANGE THERE. THERE IS, THERE'S NO CHANGE TO THE SUBSTANCE OF THIS STATE OF THE VAPE CHILD. I, THERE'S NOTHING WHATSOEVER. THERE'S NO SUBSTANCE CHANGE. IT'S JUST A NUMBER CHANGE. I, I UNDERSTOOD. AND I DON'T, AND I, I UNDERSTOOD MS. PRESLEY. YEAH. BUT THE, THE WHAT'S ON THIS, WHAT'S ON THE TABLE RIGHT NOW IS THAT A COUNCIL MEMBER IS SAYING THAT, AND, AND IT'S OKAY, I MEAN, EVERYBODY CAN TAKE ACTION HOWEVER THEY WANT. COUNCILMAN RAPPAPORT IS ASKING COULD WE SEPARATE THEM OUT SO THAT THERE WOULD BE ONE VOTE FOR THE VAPE SHOP, WHICH HAS NO CHANGES, AND THEN ONE VOTE FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTAL, WHICH HAS SOME CHANGES. THAT'S WHAT HE'S ASKING MR. SON. IT, IS THERE ANY LEGAL REASON WHY WE CAN'T DO THAT? AND IT'S A, I I MEAN, I WOULD WELL I KNOW THAT THERE'S ONE REQUIREMENT THAT AN ORDINANCE CLEARLY STATE THE PURPOSE OF THE ORDINANCE IN THE TITLE. OKAY. UM, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE IF COUNSEL'S AGREEABLE, JUST DROP THE, THE, UM, REIFICATION PIECE. OKAY. AND, AND MOVE AND GO FORWARD WITH THE SHORT TERM RENTAL AMENDMENT. AND THEN WOULD, WHEN WOULD THE ATION COME UP BE TAKEN CARE OF? WELL, THAT CAN BE TAKEN CARE OF WHEN THERE'S A BIG ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT CORRECT. AS WE, IN THE PROCESS OF REWRITING THE ZONING ORDINANCE. WE'LL JUST FIX IT THEN. OKAY. WHAT STARTED OF THIS WAS ALL THESE TEXT AMENDMENTS, BUT WE HAVE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS. WE HAD SECTIONS ONE 14 TO 1 21 RESERVED, BUT INITIALLY WE WERE JUST ADDING IT ON TO THE END. SO IT WAS LIKE BECAME 1 51 51, 1 52. IT WAS JUST TO CLEAN [01:10:01] IT UP AND PUT THEM ALL IN THE SAME SECTION OUT OF THE ADMINISTRATION PORTION. SO YOU'RE SAYING WE WOULD DROP E IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING? WELL, THAT'S AN OPTION. HE'S SAYING IF THAT IF DROP THE LANGUAGE. YEAH. IF THE COUN IF COUNCIL WANTS TO, TO SEPARATE THEM OUT, THE OPTION WOULD BE TO NOT EVEN VOTE ON A VAPE SHOP PROVOCATION. CORRECT. JUST ADVANCE THE REMAINDER. ONLY VOTE ON THAT. BUT IF COUNSEL WANTS TO PUT THEM BOTH TOGETHER, WE CAN DO THAT TOO. WELL, WE'LL REMIND, JUST BE PREPARED THAT VAPE SHOP ORDINANCE HAS BEEN DISCUSSED FOR A LONG TIME AND ANYBODY WHO SAYS THEY WANNA PUT IT OFF AGAIN RIGHT. AND FACE THE WRATH OF THE PUBLIC SAY, THIS IS WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION SENT US FORWARD. AND UP UNTIL THIS POINT, EVERYBODY IN THE COUNCIL MAJORITY MET WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION. THIS JUST CHANGING THE NUMBER. THIS JUST CHANGING THE NUMBER. THAT'S ALL THERE NO IN PLACE. CORRECT. LIKE I SAID, IF IT WAS A EXCHANGE, I WOULD BE ALL FOR IT. IT WOULD MAKE SENSE. I THINK. WELL, IF IT WAS, IF IT, IF IT WAS, IF IT WAS A, A TEXT AMENDMENT, IT WOULD BE A SEPARATE PUBLIC HEARING AND I'D BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT CORRECT. MOVING IT FORWARD. BUT IT'S NOT A TEXT AMENDMENT RATHER THAN SENDING IT BACK. SO I KNOW EXACTLY WHY THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAVEN'T BEEN ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION DO. OF COURSE. I I, IT MAKES SENSE WHY THEY DID WHAT THEY DID. SO I DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH, IF WE DIDN'T VOTE ON THE CO CODIFICATION IN SEPTEMBER, DOES IT, IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY SHOP. NO, IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. WE'RE GONNA GET A FREE PASS ON ANYTHING. OKAY. I WAS JUST ASKING. BRING IT UP ON TOWN CODE. JUST CLICK THAT LINK. EVERYTHING WOULD JUST BE IN ONE SPOT INSTEAD OF THREE DIFFERENT SPOTS. THAT'S MORE CLERICAL THING. THAT'S WHY I'M COMFORTABLE DROPPING IT OUT BECAUSE THERE'S NO SUBSTANCE THERE. RIGHT. THERE'S NO TEXTING. LEMME IF I'M MISTAKEN. YEAH. AND I, I WILL SAY COUNCILMAN RAPPAPORT, I, THE ONLY THING I WOULD SAY ABOUT THIS IS, IS THAT VOTING OR NOT VOTING ON THIS, IT, THAT'S NOT CHANGING ANYTHING. THE VAPE SHOP PART ISN'T CHANGING ANYTHING. IF YOU FIND YOURSELF IN A POSITION WHERE YOU DON'T WANNA SUPPORT THE SHORT TERM RENTAL CHANGES, THEN THAT YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD MAKE, TAKE THAT ACTION WHEN THAT VOTE CAME UP. RIGHT. COUNCILMAN WOOD, DO YOU HAVE ANY EXTRA THING YOU WANNA ADD TO THIS? NO, MA'AM. MA'AM. OKAY. IT, IT, I I'M GONNA GET HIM. MADAM MAYOR. YES. MAD MAYOR. MAY I JUST REQUEST THAT PEOPLE DON'T TALK OVER ONE ANOTHER? IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT ON THIS END. YES. THREE OR 4 54. OKAY. SO I WANT, UM, I JUST WANTED TO SAY, I JUST WANNA GET A FEEL FOR SEPARATION. NO SEPARATION. NO SEPARATION. NO SEPARATION. I HEARD YOU SAY THE POINT OF INFORMATION I WANTED TO ADDRESS WITH LEGAL IN THIS COUNSEL IS THE LAST ITEM PRIOR TO THIS ON THE WORK SESSION, BECAUSE THERE WAS A CHANGE TO IT. THEY WANTED IT TO GO BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION. SO IF WE'RE CHANGING SOMETHING ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION THAT THEY TOOK ACTION ON, THAT COULD HAVE POTENTIALLY CHANGED THEIR VOTE, IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHILE WE DO IT FOR ONE BUT NOT THE OTHER. SO NO, I DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE IT. OKAY. AND I, I JUST WANNA GET A, WHAT'S THE CONSENSUS? I, I KNOW WE'RE NOT TAKING A VOTE. MM-HMM . LEAVE IT TOGETHER. TAKE IT APART. COUNCILMAN WOOD, I'M ASSUMING YOU WANNA LEAVE IT TOGETHER, IS I ASKED IF YOU HAD ANY YES, MA'AM. OKAY. AND SO I JUST NEED TO HEAR FROM COUNCILMAN AND COUNCILMAN D DO PAY, UM, WELL, I'M GONNA SAY LEAVE IT TOGETHER ONLY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME TO DROP OUT THE TI TOBACCO SMOKE OR VAPE. BUT I MEAN, THE, THE ISSUE IS WITH THE FIRST PART, SO COUNCILMAN OCK, I MEAN, AT THIS POINT THERE'S FOUR PEOPLE SAYING LEAVE IT TOGETHER. BUT IF YOU, I DON'T WANNA, I DON'T WANNA LEAVE YOU OUT . I LIKE TO SEE IT SEPARATED AND UNFORTUNATELY AS TO, BUT, BUT AT LEAST YOU GOT TRUTH IN YOUR OPPORTUNITY. IT SOUNDS LIKE THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WANNA LEAVE IT RIGHT TOGETHER. AND THEN THAT WAY IT'S ALL DONE WITH THE IDEA THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION SENT THAT FORWARD. ALL RIGHT, LADIES AND JENS THREE A, WHICH IS STILL YOU. I'M SORRY THAT I ALMOST, ALMOST RUSHED YOU TO THAT ONE. I BET YOU WISH I'D SKIPPED EUGENE. JUST KIDDING. UH, THREE A. SO THAT'S THE ONE ABOUT ALLOW, YEAH. ADDING LANGUAGE, RESTRICTING THE REDEVELOPMENT OF HISTORIC RESIDENTIAL SITES TO SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING UNITS IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREA OF THE TOWNS HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND CHAPTER 1 75 DASH 29 TO ADD LANGUAGE PREVENTING THE CONVERSION OF SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES INTO, INTO MULTIFAMILY OR TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS. THIS ONE IS BACK TO MY, JUST BECAUSE I THINK YOU WANTED MORE TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT AND DISCUSS IT. UH, THERE HAVE BEEN NO CHANGES TO THE TEXT ITSELF. IT STILL, UM, BASICALLY PROHIBIT ANY TYPE OF NEW DEVELOPMENT OR CONVERSION TO, [01:15:01] OR MULTI-FAMILY. SO IT WOULD JUST PERMIT SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING UNITS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO THAT'S THE RESIDENTIAL PORTION OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO THAT'S EVERYTHING FROM JACKSON STREET BACK TO PROSPECT STREET. AND THEN, UM, UH, RIVERTON RIVERTON. OKAY. SO NOTHING'S CHANGED ON THIS SINCE THE LAST TIME WE SAW IT, WHICH WAS AUGUST 4TH. UM, AT THAT TIME, COUNSEL WANTED TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO THINK ABOUT IT SOME MORE. WHAT'S BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IS THE DECISION OF WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE READY TO MOVE IT TO THE PUBLIC HEARING, TO A PUBLIC HEARING IN SEPTEMBER. IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT YOUR VOTE WOULD BE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT, THIS WOULD BE MORE OF AN OPPORTUNITY. DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS? HOPEFULLY IF YOU DID, YOU ALREADY GOT WITH STAFF ABOUT THEM. UM, IS EVERYBODY COMFORTABLE WITH MOVING THIS FORWARD FOR, UH, A PUBLIC HEARING AND TAKE ACTION? AND AGAIN, THIS ISN'T THE, THIS ISN'T THE TIME TO LIKE, WHETHER OR NOT YOU LIKE IT, DON'T LIKE IT, WHATEVER IT IS. IT'S JUST MORE LIKE, ARE YOU READY? DO YOU THINK IT'S READY TO GO TO TAKE ACTION? WATER'S JUST NOT STRONG TONIGHT. I'M OKAY WITH IT, MADAM MAYOR. I MEAN, I'VE READ THROUGH IT, IT SEEMS IT MAKES SENSE FOR, MY BIGGEST TAKE ON THIS WAS FOR THE DRI KNOW THEY'RE TRYING TO GET SOME CLARIFICATION ON CURRENT ORDINANCES. AND IT SEEMS TO ADD, IT SEEMS TO ADD, ADD SOME CLARIFICATION. AND I KNOW THE, I UNDERSTAND THE PUSH FOR, FOR, UH, FAMILY HOMES. THAT'S THE WHOLE IDEA OF HAVING A HISTORIC DISTRICT, ISN'T IT, TO MAINTAIN THE SINGLE FAMILY CHARACTER ON, AND I'M ALL FOR, OKAY. REMEMBER, WE'RE JUST, THIS IS JUST, ARE WE, I, I, I'M, NO, NO, NO. I, I, I, I, I LIKE WHAT THE COMMISSION HAS PRESENTED TO US. I WOULD, UM, UNFORTUNATELY WE DIDN'T GET TO HAVE A LIAISON MEETING, BUT I KNOW A LOT OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS HERE ON THE COUNCIL WERE REALLY INTERESTED IN TOURISM COMMITTEES AND AGRITOURISM AND EXPANDING TOURISM, AND IT CAMPAIGNED ON TOURISM. AND SO, UH, FIND IT IRONIC THAT THE DISTRICT CLOSEST TO THE TOURIST COMMUNITY IS WHAT'S BEING ADDRESSED CURRENTLY. 'CAUSE UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN I DROVE THROUGH THE OTHER DAY AND COUNTED A LOT OF 'EM WERE ALREADY, UM, CONVERTED INTO MULTIFAMILY DWELLING AND NOT IN AN APPROPRIATE OR GOOD MANNER. UM, AND I'M ON RECORD SAYING, YOU KNOW, WHEN I TRAVEL TO ASHEVILLE OR SEDONA OR ALL THE PLACES THAT SOME OF THESE COUNCIL MEMBERS MENTIONED, I STAYED IN THE HISTORIC PART OF THOSE CITIES TO SPEND MY MONEY. UM, SO I'M JUST STILL KIND OF PERPLEXED AT, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S LACK OF FORESIGHT, UH, NOT FROM STAFF, BUT COUNCILS, BECAUSE THE DAMAGE IS DONE DOWN THERE IN THAT REGARD OF THE MULTIFAMILY IS NOT NECESSARILY NEW CONSTRUCTION. AND I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ADD, UM, FOR THE MINUTES OF THE MEETING AND FROM THE PUBLIC IN THE PRESS, SAFETY WAS ADDRESSED AT ONE OF THESE MEETINGS. AND, UM, THE FORMER POLICE CHIEF ACTUALLY, UH, RECEIVED A CALL FROM A REAL ESTATE AGENT, UH, THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR, I BELIEVE, WHEN I WAS DOWN THERE FOR SOME VIOLENCE SQUATTERS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WHO HAD ALREADY CAUSED A FIRE ONCE AND THEN, UH, TRIED TO ATTACK AND CHASED US OFF OUT OF ANOTHER HOUSE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. BUT IRONICALLY, AS SOON, AND UNFORTUNATELY, AS SOON AS WE LEFT THAT MEETING LAST MONDAY, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS WITHIN 24 HOURS, THERE WAS A VERY VIOLENT CRIMINAL ARRESTED IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WHO WAS STAYING IN ONE OF THOSE WALKING FAMILY CONVERSIONS. BUT WE CAN MOVE THIS FORWARD TO A VOTE. I'M IN FAVOR OF THAT. YEAH. I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED HERITAGE, UH, TOURISM. THESE ARE FOLKS THAT COME HERE AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR, UM, OLDER HOMES AND, UH, THAT KIND OF DEVELOPMENT. I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE 'EM. UH, I, I, I WALK UP BLUE RIDGE, I WALK UP PLOW STREET. I FEEL COMPLETELY SAFE WALKING UP THOSE STREETS. I WALK UP PINE STREET. UH, SO, UH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE, UH, UH, THE, I SEE PEOPLE, THESE ARE VISITORS. I KNOW THEY'RE VISITORS BECAUSE THEY LEAVE, THEY LEAVE THE, UH, VISITING CENTER AND, AND, AND THEY WALK UP BLUE RIDGE. AND THE REASON THEY WALK UP TO BLUE RIDGE IS THEY WANT TO LOOK AT THE ARCHITECTURE. AND, UH, AND THAT'S OLD HERITAGE TOURISM. [01:20:01] AND, UM, SO HISTORIANS ALSO , AND THEY SPEND MONEY HERE. THEY COME HERE AND THEY SPEND MONEY. AND THAT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT. YEAH. SO, AND THIS AGAIN, WHAT'S BEFORE US MM-HMM . IS TO PREVENT ANY FURTHER CONVERSION. FURTHER CONVERSION. SO WHAT'S ALREADY THERE ISN'T GONNA CHANGE. IT'S JUST WHATEVER IS LEFT TO PER MINUTES FROM, FROM CHANGING. SO YEAH. MY LAST COMMENT WILL BE FROM MR. REP BEFORE MR. NEIL, MS. ERS, UM, AS A GROWN ADULT WHO HAS, YOU KNOW, FREE, WILL I TOO FEEL SAFE WALKING ON THOSE STREETS? WOULD I LET MY 10-YEAR-OLD RIDE THEIR BIKE ON THEM? NO. UM, UNSUPERVISED? NO. WOULD I IN A DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOOD IN FRONT ROYAL? YES. SO, AS AN ADULT WHO CAN PROTECT MYSELF AND HAS A LITTLE BIT OF A FRONTAL LOBE FORMED VERSUS A CHILD, THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE IN SAFETY FOR THOSE TWO. WHAT YOU READ THE PAPER, YOU CAN'T EVEN GO TO THE COUNTY FAIR. SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE STORY DISTRICT, BUT, UM, ALL RIGHT. SO THERE IS A, LORD COUNCILMAN WOOD, CAN YOU TURN YOUR, WE WERE STRUGGLING BEFORE TO HEAR YOU. COULD YOU TURN YOURS UP JUST A LITTLE BIT? I, I HAVE IT UP. OKAY. TRYING HEARING. NOW WE'RE HEARING YOU EVERYBODY KNOW SOUND? YES. OKAY. SO INSTEAD OF THE STANDING OVER THE CRIMINALITY OF OUR HISTORICAL DISTRICT, ANY OTHER DISTRICT THAT IS UP TO OUR CHIEF AND AS A COUNCIL, ONE DIRECT THEM, PUT MORE FORCES DOWN THAN WE SHOULD. THIS SHOULDN'T BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION OVER WHETHER WE KEEP OR GET RID OF A HISTORICAL DISTRICT. WE HAVEN'T FOR A REASON. I, WE'RE NOT GONNA THAT, THAT SIMPLE IN EITHER WE KEEP WHAT WE HAVE OR WE RUN IT OFF. AND THE ARGUMENT ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE IN THAT'S HAPPENED SINCE YOU GET ENOUGH TIME WHEN YOU CAN NO LONGER LIVE IN THE HOUSE WITH AFFAIRS, GUESS WHAT? YOU MOVE INTO A HOUSE THAT DOESN'T HAVE STAIRS. EVERYBODY HAS THIS REASON. SHOULDN'T BE IN CONSIDERATION ON ONE THAT WE KEEP OUR ONE AND ONLY HISTORICAL DISTRICT. DO WE WANT TO KEEP THE ARCHITECTURE? DO WE WANT TO KEEP THE HISTORY OF THIS PARTICULAR AREA OR DON'T WE? SO I, I'M READY TO MOVE FORWARD TO THE PUBLIC. MADAM MAYOR, A FORMER TOWN MANAGER, SPOKE ABOUT THE GENTRIFICATION THAT HE WAS IN SUPPORT OF IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY TO THAT, I'M NOT GRANDSTANDING. I'M SPEAKING TO WHAT A CONSTITUENT SPOKE AND I WASN'T ALLOWED TO RESPOND TO AT A MEETING. YOU CAN ASK MR. SON ON MY BEHALF, BUT IT'S MY RIGHT TO ADDRESS THOSE COMMENTS. SECONDLY, I BELIEVE THAT WHILE IT'S GREAT, SOME PEOPLE MAY BE ABLE TO MOVE OUT OF A HOUSE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T WALK UP AND DOWN STAIRS, OVER 55% OF HER OILS, POPULATION CAN'T JUST SELL OR MOVE OR RENT A DIFFERENT HOUSE WHEN THEIR CIRCUMSTANCES CHANGE. IT'S GREAT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE THAT PRIVILEGE, BUT WE KNOW THAT WE ARE AN UNDERPRIVILEGED AND UNDERSERVED COMMUNITY. SO THAT'S NOT REALISTIC. SO WE GOT, UH, COUNCILMAN WOOD, YOU'RE READY TO MOVE ON? MOVE. WAYNE, ARE YOU READY TO MOVE THIS FORWARD, JOSH, I MEAN, READY FOR A VOTE OR WHEN YOU VOTED? WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS. YOU READY? ALL RIGHT. SO THAT'S GONNA BE ALSO A PUBLIC HEARING. MM-HMM . CORRECT? MM-HMM . ALL RIGHT. SIX. WE KICKED OUT. SEVEN IS GONNA BE A PUBLIC HEARING. SO WE HAVE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 PUBLIC HEARINGS. AS OF RIGHT NOW, WE HAVEN'T EVEN GOTTEN TO OUR SECOND UHUH , BUT ACTUALLY WE, WE DID THE AGENDA NOW. I DON'T THINK THERE'S, YEAH, THIS IS IT. I THINK THERE, THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY PUBLIC HEARINGS ON WHAT WE DECIDED TODAY FOR NEXT WEEK'S. ALRIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. SORRY. YOU, YOU, AT LEAST YOU GOT 'EM ALL DONE THIS TIME, RIGHT? MM-HMM . SO FOUR IS THE PROPOSED, OKAY, SO FOUR, HERE'S THE DEAL. SOME OF YOU ARE GOING TO THE VML CONFERENCE FROM OCTOBER 12TH TO 14TH. AND UNFORTUNATELY I CANNOT GO TO THE MAYOR'S CONFERENCE 'CAUSE IT IS, I I MEAN, ON FESTIVAL LEAVES, THEY ALWAYS DO IT ON FESTIVAL LEAVES WEEKEND. AND I EITHER GOTTA MISS FESTIVAL LEAVES OR GO TO THAT. UM, BUT SO, BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO THAT, THAT MONDAY WOULD'VE BEEN, COME ON. NO, IT'S TUESDAY. SO TU WE WOULD HAVE TO MOVE OUR OCTOBER 2ND MEETING IN OCTOBER TO OCTOBER 14TH, WHICH IS A TUESDAY. AND IF YOU'RE GOING TO THAT CONFERENCE, YOU'RE ACTUALLY COMING BACK ON THAT DAY. UM, AND I WILL SAY THAT I, I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT SURE THAT WE'VE [01:25:01] HAD ONE SINCE I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL ON THAT ONE. 'CAUSE I FEEL LIKE WE'VE CHANGED IT EVERY, WE'VE CANCELED IT EVERY TIME BECAUSE IT JUST, WE WERE GONNA TRY THE ONE YEAR AND THEN WE FOUND OUT LITERALLY AT THE LAST MINUTE. AND SO THE MAYOR AT THE TIME JUST CANCELED IT WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, SO DOES ANYBODY, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHO ALL'S GOING AND, AND, BUT ARE YOU ALL GOOD WITH CANCELING THE SECOND OCTOBER? YEAH. TWO. SO YEAH, WE WOULD HAVE TO GET HERE. OKAY. WE DON'T HAVE IT. SO THAT'S THE IDEA IS, AND I MEAN, IF THAT'S THE CASE, WE COULD NOBODY CAN CALL IN. YEAH, NOBODY CAN CALL IN. YOU'D HAVE TO BE PRESENT TO BE HERE PRESENT. SO TWO, TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE GOING, WHICH MEANS AT LEAVES FOUR LEFT. AND TO HAVE TO HAVE, BE ABLE TO HAVE OUR MEETING, WE HAVE TO HAVE ALL FOUR PEOPLE HERE. I, I WILL BE HERE THAT DAY. OKAY. THEN YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE OUT. WELL THAT, THERE YOU GO. THAT MAKES THE DECISION QUITE EASY. SO WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE A RESOLUTION AT OUR SEPTEMBER MEETING SINCE CANCELING IT. I MEAN, WE WILL TAKE A VOTE AND CANCELING IT TO LET THE PUBLIC KNOW. NO, THIS CAN GO UNDER CONSENT. WOULD YOU PREFER IT NOT? I DON'T SEE WHY. I MEAN, UNLESS ANYBODY HAS A COMMON IN FAVOR OF IT. YEAH. CONSENT SEEMS LIKE DISREGARD. THAT'S WAY TO GO. 'CAUSE IT'S IN HAVE VOTE. I'M SORRY. IT JUST REQUIRES A VOTE BECAUSE IT'S THE DATES, THE DATES AND TIMES ARE ESTABLISHED IN TOWN CODE. SO TO BURY IT, IT REQUIRES A VOTE. OKAY. WE JUST KNOW THAT WE WON'T, THE VOTE CAN BE ON, ON THE CONSENT. YEAH. NOW THE CODE NOT, THIS IS, I'M GOING OFF TOPIC, BUT I'M GONNA DO IT ANYWAY. WE CAN CANCEL THAT MEETING THAT WEEK. RIGHT. BUT TWO DAYS AFTER THAT IS WHEN WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE OUR LIAISON MEETING MM-HMM . SO, SO I'LL, I'LL STILL HAVE A SECOND MEETING IN OCTOBER, BUT ASSUMING WE'RE GONNA HAVE IT, I'M NOT GONNA BE SNARKY. AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T GET CANCELED AGAIN, HOPEFULLY IT DOESN'T. UM, AND PROBABLY WE CAN TALK IN WHATEVER THE FIRST, WE HAVE TO TALK THE FIRST, FIRST WORK SESSION IN OCTOBER. MM-HMM . ABOUT WHAT WE WANT ON THE AGENDA. I WOULD SAY WHATEVER'S STILL ON THERE, WE PROBABLY WILL LEAVE UNLESS THERE'S ANYTHING THAT'S ALREADY BEEN DECIDED. HAVE WE HEARD A RESPONSE TO THE REASON AS TO WHY IT WAS AFTER IT WAS CANCELED AND THIS COUNCIL MET? I HAVEN'T DISCUSSED COUNSEL WITH ANY OF YOU, BUT I WAS TOLD YOU REACHED OUT TO SEE THE REASON IT WAS CANCELED OR IF THEY WERE INTERESTED IN RESCHEDULING. I HAVEN'T HEARD AN UPDATE ON THAT. YEAH. THE, SO WHAT WAS TOLD TO ME BY THE CHAIRMAN WAS THAT THEY JUST WANTED TO WAIT UNTIL THEY HAD, UM, A NEW COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR. AND OF COURSE THAT WAS IN JULY THAT I WAS TOLD. I WASN'T SURE IF IT WAS GONNA HAPPEN BY OCTOBER, BUT APPARENTLY AS OF LAST WEEK OR THE WEEK BEFORE THERE IS. SO THEY MAY BE . SO HOPEFULLY, AND I THINK THAT NEW PERSON'S SEPTEMBER 11TH, SEPTEMBER 11TH. SO THEY SHOULD HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO BE ABLE TO, TO, UM, HAVE OUR OCTOBER MEETING. I, I WOULD HOPE WE WOULD NOT CANCEL ANOTHER ONE. WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE HAVING A QUARTERLY, LAST JULY GOT CANCELED, THIS JULY'S GOT CANCELED. IF IT'S GONNA TURN INTO, WE'RE ONLY HAVING IT THREE TIMES A YEAR, THEN WE SHOULD PROBABLY GO IN AND CHANGE OUR CODE TO SAY IT'S, YOU KNOW, THREE TIMES A YEAR INSTEAD OF, UH, FOUR TIMES A YEAR IF WE'RE GONNA KEEP CANCELING THEM. SO, SO WE WILL HAVE ANOTHER I'LL MYSELF AND WHAT ARE YOU LUCKY FOLKS? IT'S GONNA HAVE ANOTHER MEETING IN OCTOBER. . SO, ALL RIGHT. UH, OUR CLOSED MEETING, MADAM MAYOR, UNDER THIS COUNCIL CONVENE A CLOSED MEETING PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 2.2 DASH 3 7 9 AND 2.272 OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR THE FOLLOWING. ONE PURSUANT TO 2.2 DASH 37 11 A, ONE OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR THE DISCUSSION, CONSIDERATION, OR INTERVIEWS OF PROSPECTIVE CANDIDATES FOR EMPLOYMENT ASSIGNMENT, APPOINTMENT, PROMOTION, PERFORMANCE, DEMOTION, SALARIES, DISCIPLINING, OR RESIGNATION OF SPECIFIC PUBLIC OFFICERS, APPOINTEES OR EMPLOYEES OF ANY PUBLIC BODY. MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE LOCAL BOARD OF BUILDING CODE APPEALS TO L-B-B-C-A AND THE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW. THE BAR TWO, PURSUANT TO SECTION 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 1 A SEVEN OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR CONSULTATION WITH LEGAL COUNSEL AND BRIEFINGS BY STAFF MEMBERS OR CONSULTANTS PERTAINING TO ACTUAL OR PROBABLE LITIGATION WHERE SUCH CONSULTATION OR BRIEFING IN OPEN MEETING WOULD ADVERSELY AFFECT THE NEGOTIATING OR LITIGATING POSTURE OF THE PUBLIC BODY. MORE SPECIFICALLY, A TOWN OWNED PROPERTY LOCATED AT TAX MAP NUMBER 20 A 1 2 8 1 5 4 0.382 ACRES ON WINCHESTER PIKE AND B TOWN OWNED PROPERTY IN TON STREET, , LOCATED AT TAX MAP 2 0 8 DASH FOUR DASH FOUR, 6.8273 ACRES ON CHESTER STREET RIGHT HERE. A SECOND. SECOND. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. ROLL CALL. COUNCIL WOOD. [01:30:01] COUNCIL WOOD? YES. VICE MAYOR VICE? YES. COUNCIL ? YES. COUNCIL RAPPAPORT? YES. MS. YES. COUNCIL? YES. ALL RIGHT. LET'S DO READ. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.