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TO ORDER THE, UH, FRONT ROW TOWN[Town Council Work Session on June 2, 2025.]
COUNCIL REGULAR WORK SESSION FOR MONDAY, UH, JUNE.MS. PRESLEY, CAN WE DO A ROLL CALL? MAYOR RO HERE.
SO, UH, FIRST THING OFF IS NEW BUSINESS.
WE HAVE, UM, EIGHT DIFFERENT ITEMS FOR THAT, BUT SO IS THE BENEFITS CONSULTING SERVICES.
AND MS. CAMPBELL, I BELIEVE YOU'RE GONNA SPEAK TO THAT.
ACTUALLY, YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS.
UH, SO, UM, ITEM TWO A IS FOR THE BENEFITS CONSULTING SERVICES, THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN RESOURCES ISSUED AS SOLICITATION, UH, REQUESTING QUOTES FROM QUALIFIED FIRMS TO PROVIDE THE TALENT BENEFITS, CONSULTING SERVICES, AND RECEIVE FOUR RESPONSES.
UM, TALENT COUNCIL HAS REQUESTED TO REVIEW AND ISSUE AN AWARD TO ONE DIGITAL OF RICHMOND, VIRGINIA IN THE AMOUNT OF $30,000 PER YEAR.
UM, WE'RE BRINGING THE REQUEST OF BEFORE COUNCIL FOR APPROVAL BECAUSE THE AMOUNT EXCEEDS 50,000 IF MULTIPLE YEAR RENEWALS ARE DESIRED.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THIS WILL BE A YEAR TO YEAR CONTRACT.
SO DO THEY USE THE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE HEALTHCARE PROVIDER OR AS PART OF THEIR YES, THEY DO.
THAT'S WHO WE'VE USED IN THE PAST TOO.
SO THEY'RE DOING THE INSURANCE SERVICES.
MCG GRIP, SOMETHING DIFFERENT, RIGHT? WELL, THEY THEY CAME IN A DIFFERENT, UM, GOTCHA.
SO HAVE, HAVE WE EVER USED ONE DIGITAL BEFORE? DO YOU KNOW? NO.
NO, BUT HOW LONG HAVE WE BEEN USING MCGRIFF? WE HAVEN'T, WE'VE NEVER USED MCGRIFF.
WHO IS THE GROUP THAT WE USE? GALLAGHER.
I DON'T KNOW WHY I FEEL LIKE MCGRIFF IS, I'VE HEARD THAT NAME, BUT MAYBE.
ANYWAY, THEY'RE IN WINCHESTER.
SO THIS GROUP OUT IN NORTH CAROLINA, IS THAT RICHMOND? RICHMOND? THE OTHER TWO ARE IN WINCHESTER.
UM, ANY, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MS. CAMPBELL? IT LOOKS LIKE STAT'S RECOMMENDING THAT WE USE ONE DIGITAL, UH, 'CAUSE THE MOST COMPETITIVE PRICE.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY CONCERNS? YES.
LAUREN, DO THEY TROUBLESHOOT OR HELP IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE CARRIER OR ARE THEY SIMPLY NEGOTIATING, TRYING TO GET THE BEST DEAL? THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY A LIAISON.
NOT ONLY FOR HR TO THE OTHER CARRIERS.
UM, SO WE CAN PUT THIS ON FOR THE 24TH, RIGHT? YES.
BUT WE'RE DEFINITELY PUTTING IT ON THERE, RIGHT? WE'RE NOT GONNA GET THERE AND WE'RE NOT LIKE, WE'RE NOT GOOD WITH THAT.
SO WE'RE GOING, WE WANT IT ON CONSENT.
ALRIGHT, NEXT UP IS ALSO TWO B.
ITEM TWO B IS FOR, UM, ON-CALL GENERAL CIVIL ENGINEERING SERVICES.
SO THE TOWN ISSUED A REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL TO OBTAIN ON-CALL GENERAL CIVIL ENGINEERING SERVICES.
UH, THE EVALUATION COMMITTEE MET, REVIEWED ALL THREE PROPOSALS, AND THEN CONDUCTED INTERVIEWS WITH SIX OF THE FIRMS. UM, THE PROPOSALS WERE EVALUATED BASED ON EXPERIENCE AND SIMILAR SERVICES, QUALIFICATIONS OF PERSONNEL AND PROJECT MANAGERS, ORGANIZATIONAL CAPACITY, PROPOSED METHODOLOGY, AND THEIR OVERALL RESPONSIVENESS.
FOLLOWING THE INTERVIEWS AND FINAL SCORING, THE COMMITTEE REACHED A CONSENSUS TO RECOMMEND AWARDING CONTRACTS TO THE TOP RANKED FIRMS, WHICH WERE CHA CONSULTING MAN AND CRAIG PROTESTING AND ASSOCIATES AND SIMMONS GROUP.
UM, THESE FIRMS DEMONSTRATED THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF QUALIFICATIONS, CAPABILITIES, AND VALUE TO THE TOWN.
TOWN COUNCIL HAS REQUESTED TO REVIEW AND AWARD CONTRACTS ON AN AS NEEDED BASIS
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FOR, UH, AN ADDITIONAL CONTRACT PERIOD OF ONE YEAR, BUT THE OPTION TO RENEW FOR FOUR ADDITIONAL ONE YEAR PERIODS.SO MY, MY QUESTION, I REALIZE THEY PROVIDE SERVICES LIKE THE BRIDGE INSPECTION.
UM, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR HIRING A TALENT ENGINEER.
WELL, I BELIEVE WE'VE ALWAYS HAD A CIVIL ENGINEERING FIRM, UM, ON CALL.
THIS IS, UH, FOR THE, UH, LIKE BIGGER PROJECTS THAT WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO.
UH, THE TOWN ENGINEER WOULD BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, HELP OUT AND FACILITATE WITH SMALL PROJECTS.
WE PROBABLY DO MORE CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION, BUT NOT REALLY THE DESIGN PHASE OF, UH, OF PROJECTS.
AND THIS IS TO ALLOW US TO HAVE A, A POOL OF, UH, ENGINEERS TO BE ABLE TO PULL FROM.
UH, SO IF, YOU KNOW, ONE'S UNABLE TO DO IT AT THIS TIME, BE A LITTLE BETTER.
AND THIS WAS SOMETHING WE ALREADY WERE DOING, CORRECT? ON CROSS ENGINEER, CORRECT? WE'VE, YES.
SO WE'VE, UH, CONTRACTED IN THE PAST WITH OUR K AND KAMT.
UH, THERE'S BEEN SEVERAL, UH, ENGINEERING FIRMS OVER THE YEARS.
UH, BUT HAVING ONE, IT REALLY LIMITS US IF, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED A SPECIAL, SO HAVE WE WORKED WITH ANY OF THE ONES LISTED? UH, WE CURRENTLY WORK, I KNOW CA WE'VE BEEN IN THERE AND PAT AND, AND MATT AND CRAIG.
THE ONLY ONE WE HAVEN'T WORKED WITH IS TIMON.
THEY'RE ALL, THE FIRST THREE ARE ALL DOING PROJECTS FOR US RIGHT NOW.
IT SAYS THE TIMON GROUP RECEIVED THE HIGHEST EVALUATION SCORES DURING THE INTERVIEW PHASE AND HERE PERFECT RESULTS.
THEY HAD MEAN, THEY HAD THREE PERFECT SCORES, UM, IN THEIR GROUP WERE, I DON'T THINK ANY OF THE OTHER ONES DID AT ALL.
ARE ANY OF 'EM LOCAL? UH, PODESTA'S OUTTA WINCHESTER, C A'S OUT OF, UH, BURG? UM, MAD AND CRAIG IS NOT TOO FAR.
ARE THEY HERE SOMEWHERE? I'M TRYING TO THINK WHO IT WAS.
I DON'T, I THINK TIMOTHY, TIMOTHY QUESTION.
RIGHT? VIRGINIA JUST DID SOMETHING FOR BML TOO.
THEY JUST SPONSORED SOMETHING LIKE I SAW MATTER AND CRAIG IS WHO SPONSORED THAT DINNER, AND THAT'S WHO WE, THAT'S WHO'S MATTER.
AND CRAIG IS WHO WE'RE WORKING WITH RIGHT NOW ON THE EIGHTH STREET BRIDGE, AND THEY DID THE ER BRIDGE AND THEN, UH, ALSO THEY'VE DONE OUR BRIDGE INSPECTIONS FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS? SO IS ARE YOU ALL COMFORTABLE WITH PUTTING THIS ON THE CONSENT AGENDA OR BUSINESS ITEM? ALL, ALL OF OUR AUTHORITY FIGURES HAVE SIGNED OFF ON, YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S OKAY.
ALRIGHT, SO NEXT UP IS THE FY 25 BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR ROLLING MARKETING AND SIGNAGE, MR. WILSON.
SO, UH, THIS IS JUST A BUDGET AMENDMENT TO BRING IN THE FUNDS, THE $34,000, UH, THAT HAD BEEN, UM, DISCUSSED DURING THE SUP PROCESS.
UH, I WANNA BRING THAT IN AND ALLOCATE IT TO THE EXPENDITURES THAT'LL BE ASSOCIATED WITH THE PROJECT MARKETING ASSIGNED.
I ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS? YOUR HONOR, HAVE WE STARTED THAT PROJECT? YES.
IT LOOKED LIKE WE, UH, THE GUNS OUT BLOCKED ALL APART, BUT SOME MARKING FURTHER UP OR SOMETHING.
IT'S BEEN PART OF, IT'S BEEN PAINTED AND THEN WE HAD SOME RAIN.
WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE FINISHING THE CURVE PAINTING AND THEN LATER THIS WEEK DO THIS STRIPING ON ROYAL LANE.
THAT SHOULD BE HAPPENING THIS WEEK.
DO WE SEE THE, UM, STRIPING DELINEATORS, WHATEVER WE'RE DOING OUT ON 55? IS THAT GOING TO HAPPEN WITHIN OUR BUDGET YEAR BY JUNE 30TH? YEAH, THAT WILL BE BY JUNE 30TH.
BUT IT WILL BE, IT WILL BE, UH, PROBABLY LATE SUMMER.
YEAH, IT'LL PROBABLY LATER THIS SUMMER.
WE STILL NEED TO GET THE DRAWINGS, SPECIFIC DIMENSION DRAWINGS FOR ALL THAT, BUT THAT'S WHAT THIS FUNDING WILL HELP FACILITATE.
SO, AND WE'RE WORKING WITH PLANNING AND ZONING AND PUBLIC WORKS THAT CAN MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
WHAT THE CALL I GOT WAS, AND SUPPOSEDLY THEY SAID THAT IT'S PEOPLE THAT WORK IN THE OFFICE BUILDING.
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THE IMPRESSION, YOU KNOW, THAT WE HAD OR WERE GIVEN.AND SO ANYWAY, I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF YOU'VE GOTTEN A WHOLE, A LOT OF, YEAH, SO THAT'S, THAT'S CORRECT.
THAT'S SECTION OF ROYAL LANE THAT WE NEED TO DEDICATE THOSE, THAT TURN LANE.
UM, AND THE OTHER TURN LANE, WE DESIGNATED THAT AS NO PARKING.
UH, THE INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE PARKING THEIR VEHICLES THERE ALSO WORK AT THE NEIGHBORING MEDICAL OFFICE.
UM, THEY HAVE OFF STREET PARKING.
THEY HAVE A PARKING LOT THERE.
THAT WAS PART OF THE SITE PLAN DEVELOPMENT WHEN IT WAS DEVELOPED.
OBVIOUSLY MAYBE THOSE BUSINESSES HAVE GROWN SINCE THEN.
MAYBE THEY NEED ADDITIONAL PARKING, BUT THERE IS ADDITIONAL PARKING ON ROYAL LANE THAT IS TYPICALLY NOT USED JUST A LITTLE FURTHER UP.
SO THEY STILL NEED ON STREET PARKING TO SUPPLEMENT, YOU KNOW, THEIR OFF STREET.
THERE IS MORE PARKING FURTHER UP THE ROAD.
UM, SOME OF THE QUESTIONS WERE, YOU KNOW, SNOW REMOVAL IN THE WINTERTIME, ENSURE THAT SOME OF THAT PARKING'S AVAILABLE.
OBVIOUSLY, AGAIN, IT'S PUBLIC PARKING, IT'S ON STREET, IT'S NOT DEDICATED FOR ANY ONE USER.
UM, BUT WE WILL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO OBVIOUSLY MAKE SURE THE ROADS ARE PLOWED.
UM, THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS ON THAT STRETCH OF ROAD.
UH, SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN ADD TO ANY FUTURE PLANNING TO LOOK AT AND PRIORITIZE THAT VERSUS OTHER POTENTIAL SIDEWALK PROJECTS IN ACCESS.
UM, BUT YES, WE DID RECEIVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT REMOVING THAT PARKING, BUT IT'S
RIGHT? ISN'T THAT ABOUT WHAT WE WERE ASKING? YEAH, THERE WAS SOME NO PARKING AT TOP.
YEAH, THERE'S A FIRE HYDRANT AND THEN WE KIND OF CONNECTED THE TWO FROM THERE.
SO DEPENDING ON WHAT TYPE OF VEHICLES, BUT YEAH, YOU WERE ANYWHERE FROM FIVE TO MAYBE SEVEN SMALLER CARS, BUT EVERY DAY YOU WOULD SEE CARS.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I MEAN, THIS IS BASICALLY JUST US APPROVING, TAKING THE MONEY IN.
BRING THE MONEY IN AND ALLOCATE ANYBODY.
EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT BEING CONSENT? YEP.
ANY, ANY PROBLEMS WITH THAT? OKAY.
MOVING ON TO THE NEXT THING, WHICH IS THE BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR SOLID WASTE REVENUE.
SO THIS IS, UH, TO BRING IN THE ADDITIONAL REVENUE FROM OUR RATE INCREASE, UH, THAT WE, UH, DID LATE LAST YEAR.
UM, I WAS HOLDING OFF ON BRINGING THIS FORWARD UNTIL WE SEEN EXACTLY WHERE THE, UH, MAIN STREET WAS GOING TO, UH, END UP.
UH, LOOKS LIKE THAT'S BEEN, UH, SETTLED NOW.
SO I'M BRINGING THIS FORWARD, UH, BRINGING ADDITIONAL REVENUE OF $259,130, UH, WITH 238,000 OF THAT BEING ALLOCATED TO THE TIPPING FEES THAT THE TOWN PAYS TO WARREN COUNTY.
AND THEN THE ADDITIONAL, UH, $21,130 FEE SET ASIDE, UH, FOR MOTOR VEHICLES, UH, LOOKS LIKE.
UM, BUT THE MOTOR VEHICLES, I'M NOT SURE WHERE THAT'S GOING TO END UP.
THE LAST ONE WE PURCHASED, UH, BACK IN APRIL, 2022 IS $181,000.
UH, WE DID GET A QUOTE, UH, END OF LAST YEAR THERE FOR $244,000 FOR A REFUGE TRUCK.
UM, WE DO HAVE $180,000 BUDGETED IN FISCAL YEAR 26 IF, UH, APPROVAL, IF THAT IS.
UM, SO THIS WOULD HELP US GET TO THAT, UH, DELTA.
WE MAY END UP HAVING TO, UH, LOOK AT THE ADDITIONAL FUNDING WE HAD FOR THE OTHER REFUGE TRUCK IN THE FUTURE, BUT THIS WOULD HELP OFFSET THAT DELTA.
UM, DOES THAT HELP ANSWER ANY QUESTION? IS THAT PURCHASING A REFUGE TRUCK LIKE WE CURRENTLY HAVE OR PEOPLE OUT ON THE BACK AND WE LOOKED AT THE POSSIBILITY OF GOING WITH AN AUTOMATIC TRUCK TO RETRIEVE, UM, TRASH CONTAINERS, AREAS THAT DON'T, UH, OCCUPY OVERHEAD LAWNS CUT DOWN ON THE LABOR.
WE CAN DISCUSS THAT WITH, YOU KNOW, OUR SOLID WASTE, BUT I WOULD ASSUME THAT THAT WOULD INCREASE THE COST OF IT.
UH, I MEAN, WE LOOKED AT IT SOME IN THE PAST AND THERE'S A LOT OF AREAS THAT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO USE THAT.
THERE ARE SOME, YOU CAN OBVIOUSLY MM-HMM
UH, BUT THERE ARE, UH, QUITE A FEW AREAS WHERE YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO UTILIZE THAT, UH, TYPE OF VEHICLE.
UM, WE CAN CERTAINLY BRING BACK MORE INFORMATION ON THAT WHEN WE COME BACK TO COUNSEL.
IF WE END PURCHASING THE VEHICLE, WE'LL COME BACK WITH ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
THE OTHER THING YOU WANT TO CONSIDER, WHEN MS. MCINTOSH IS, UH, THE CONSTANT VACANCY THAT WE HAVE IN SOLID WASTES DISPOSAL AND THE DIFFICULTY OF FILLING THE POSITION, UM, WE HAVE ONE OPERATOR GO ON AND PICK UP TRASH CANS REGARDLESS OF WEATHER HUNDRED 30, 22 AND SNOWING.
UM, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SEE US EXPLORE THAT OPTION.
I THINK WHATEVER THE COST IS FOR THE AUTOMATIC ARM BE SAVED IN A YEAR OR TWO OF SALARIES FOR TWO, UH, INDIVIDUALS ON
SO I'M GONNA ASK YOU IF YOU FOLLOW.
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WHAT I THINK WOULD PROBABLY BE TRICKY IS THAT IT CAN'T, IT'S NOT LIKE THERE'S, OR MAYBE I'M WRONG, THIS WHAT REFUGEE TELL THE WOULD, WOULD WEIGH IN ON IS THERE'S PROBABLY NOT A PARTICULAR AREA OF TOWN THAT YOU COULD USE THAT THE ENTIRE TIME.SO THERE WERE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THAT THAT WOULD CONSULTANTS, THE CONSULTANTS TOUCHED ON IT WHEN THEY DID THE REVIEW FOR US.
UM, BUT I DON'T THINK WE HEAVILY DOVE INTO IT.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT JUST, IT'S NOT JUST UM, UH, OVERHEAD WIRES.
IT'S THE WAY CARS PARK AND STUFF TOO.
I MEAN, UNLESS, UNLESS THERE'S ENOUGH SPACE TO OPERATE TO GET NEXT TO IT.
ANYTHING NEW, YOU HAVE TO CHANGE BEHAVIOR.
WELL, I LIVE AT RIVERVIEW AND THAT HAS NO OVERHEAD LOT.
SO RIVERVIEW OUT HAPPY CREEK ROAD, QUITE A BIT OF HOUSING, AND IF YOU RIDE AROUND AND LOOK AT SOME OF THE MAIN ARTERIES, UM, YOU CERTAINLY COULD PICK UP AIR WITH NO CURE YOUR LINES.
I'M JUST SUGGESTING A WAY THAT WE CAN ELIMINATE THE CONSTANT TURNOVER YEAH.
AND MAKE THE JOB MORE, UM, ACCEPTABLE.
WHENEVER YOU CAN HAVE A MACHINE DO SOMETHING HUMAN, UM, THINGS LIKE THAT IS A WIN-WIN.
I THINK OUR TURNOVER RATE HAS ACTUALLY DECREASED.
HAS LAUREN SOLID FOR SOLID WASTE HAS ACTUALLY DECREASED PRETTY DRAMATICALLY ACTUALLY.
I STILL SEE GUYS COME IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, ONE GUY IN THE BACK OF THE TRUCK.
THE DRIVER'S CONSTANTLY GETTING OUT AT EVERY STOP MOST OF THE TIME TO GRAB CANS, ROLL 'EM OVER FROM IN THERE.
SO I KNOW, I'M TRYING TO THINK IF IT WAS JUST IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS THAT WE RAISED, I KNOW IT'S BEEN SINCE MY TIME ON COUNCIL, WE, WE RAISED HOURLY WAGES FOR THAT BECAUSE WE WERE STRUGGLING TO KEEP PEOPLE.
I JUST CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT YEAR IT WAS BECAUSE I WAS GONNA SAY $21,000 ISN'T GONNA GO TOO FAR TOWARDS THAT.
MY, MY QUESTION IS THESE TIPPING FEES MM-HMM
SO ORIGINALLY I THOUGHT THEY SAID 270 OR 280.
AM I WRONG? WE HAD SOME MONEY BUDGETED ALREADY FOR, BECAUSE WE'RE ALREADY PAYING TIPPING FEES.
UM, UH, IT WAS AROUND 30, $40,000.
I CAN'T REMEMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD EXACTLY.
BUT WE HAD SOME MONEY AND WITH THIS, THIS SHOULD GET US OVER THE FINISH LINE.
BUT I, BUT SO IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S LESS, IT'S NOT LIKE WE GOT A BETTER, IT'S NOT LIKE WE
NO, IT'S, IT'S RIGHT ON THE MONEY ON THIS.
AND THIS YEAR THEN, SINCE YOU SAID WE SET SOME ASIDE, ARE WE GONNA BE OKAY WITH THE UPCOMING BUDGET? LIKE WE GOT ENOUGH SET ASIDE FOR ALL OF IT AS OF NOW, UNLESS THE RATES GET RAISED AGAIN, BUT AS OF NOW, WE SHOULD BE OKAY.
THEY TOLD US THAT THE LIAISON MEETING, THEY DIDN'T COME RIGHT OUT AND SAY IT, BUT THEY WERE PRETTY CLEAR THAT AT THIS POINT THEY HADN'T DONE ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT RAISING THE FEES AND THEY KIND OF, THEY KIND OF MADE US WOULDN'T YOU SAID IT WOULDN'T BE THIS YEAR.
IT KIND OF MADE IT SOUND LIKE IT.
THEY DIDN'T REALLY SEE IT HAPPENING THIS YEAR.
SO I'M GONNA TAKE, I, UH, UH, CHAIRMAN BUTLER SAID TO US, THEY'RE RUNNING A DEFICIT.
SO IF YOU HAVE A DEFICIT YEAH.
WE THINK THAT YOU WOULD INCREASE FEES TO COVER YOUR DEFICIT.
THEY SAID IT WAS TOO LATE IN THEIR BUDGET SEASON TO DISCUSS IT AT THIS POINT.
ON THEIR PLATE TO BE ABLE TO DO YEAH, THAT WAS KIND, IT WAS KIND OF MORE OF A, WE HADN'T REALLY THOUGHT OF IT AND I WAS KIND OF SORRY WE BROUGHT IT UP.
ANYWAY, THINKING ABOUT IT, UM, UH, COUNCIL, SO FOR THE SOLID WASTE REVENUE IS, ARE YOU ALL ALSO OKAY WITH BEING ON CONSENT? YEAH.
NEXT UP IS MR. WILSON'S 20 24, 25.
SO, UM, THIS IS, UH, THE, UH, RIGHT OFF BAD DEPUTY UTILITY ACCOUNTS.
UH, WE DO BRING THESE TO COUNSEL, UH, APPARENTLY WE'RE DOING ANNUALLY YEARS AGO.
UH, HAPPY TO ACCOMMODATE WHATEVER WE'D LIKE TO DO THERE AS COUNSEL'S DISCRETION, BUT WE NEED AT LEAST NEED TO DO THIS ANNUALLY.
UH, BACK IN 2013, WE DID APPROVE A, UH, BAD DEBT POLICY FOR THE TOWN, UH, WHICH WE DO, UH, CONTINUE TO ADHERE TO.
OUR BAD DEBT RATIO FOR THE, UH, OUR UTILITY ACCOUNTS IS LESS THAN 1%.
UH, ACTUALLY IT'S, UH, MORE CLOSER TO A HALF A PER OF A PERCENT, UH, WHICH IS VERY GOOD.
UH, THE, UH, SOME OF THESE BALANCES ON HERE DO LOOK, UH, FAIRLY LARGE.
UM, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON WITH THESE.
UH, SOME OF THOSE ARE HIGH BILLS.
MAYBE SOMEBODY HAD A WATER LEAK AND THEN THEY JUST UP AND LEFT US WITH THE WATER LEAK.
UM, SOME OF THESE ARE FOR SERIOUS MEDICAL CONDITION, UH, BASED ON OUR CODES.
UM, WE DO ALLOW FOR SERIOUS MEDICAL CONDITIONS WHERE I WILL, UH, LEAVE SERVICES ON FOR A PERIOD OF 90 DAYS, UH, BASED ON A DETERMINATION OF THE, UH, DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES THERE.
UM, AND THEN WE'RE JUST UP AND LEFT WITH THE BILL.
UH, SO A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS, UH, GOING ON THERE.
SOME OF 'EM ARE REPEAT ADDRESSES.
SOME OF THEM ARE INDEED SEEM LIKE IT'S
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THE, NOT DENY THAT LANDLORD NOT HAVE AN APPROPRIATE, WELL, THERE'S ONE ON HERE.IT'S GOT TWO DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS.
ONE'S THE SAME ADDRESS THAT'S, I SAID THERE'S MULTIPLE OF THE SAME ADDRESS, WELL, NOT JUST ADDRESS, BUT THE SAME UNIT TOO.
LIKE SEVEN 18 WARREN AVENUE SIX.
IT'S GOT TWO, TWO ACCOUNTS TO IT.
SO I WONDER, DO YOU, DO YOU, I MEAN, I'M JUST CURIOUS 'CAUSE SOME OF THESE I, I WOULD THINK ARE OWNER OCCUPIED, RIGHT? SO I WONDERED THEY SWITCH OVER.
LIKE IS THAT HOW THEY, BECAUSE IS THAT HOW THEY LIVE THERE AND STILL HAVE THE BALANCE BECAUSE THEY SWITCH OVER TO THE OTHER PERSON? WE HAVE, UH, UH, WE DEFINITELY HAVE PE I HAVE, UH, INDIVIDUALS THAT KNOW OUR SYSTEM OR KNOW THE SYSTEM AND, AND DO WORK THE SYSTEM.
THE, UH, WE DO REQUIRE, UH, FOR THE, YOU KNOW, A LEASE TO BE PROVIDED IN ORDER TO SWITCH SERVICES OVER INTO SOMEONE'S NAME.
UH, BUT IF THE, YOU KNOW, THE LANDLORD IS A PARTY TO IT, I CAN'T REALLY, YOU KNOW, UM, WE DO OUR BEST TO COLLECT, IF THEY COME BACK INTO TOWN TO OPEN UP A UTILITY ACCOUNT ELSEWHERE.
WE ARE CERTAINLY COLLECTING, UH, WE DO PARTICIPATE IN THE DEBT SET OFF PROGRAM.
SO IF THEY GET INCOME TAXES OR LOTTERY WINNINGS, WE'RE COLLECTING THOSE BEFORE THEY GET 'EM OR ANY OTHER REFUND FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA.
UM, SO I MEAN, WE'RE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO BATTLE THAT.
BUT YOU, YOU HAVE, YOU'VE GOT A VERY GOOD POINT.
UM, WE'VE, UH, LOOKED AT, I EXPLORED DIFFERENT OPTIONS.
AT ONE POINT WE DID HAVE A COLLECTION AGENCY, BUT THE COLLECTION AGENCY'S FEES FOR MORE THAN THEY COLLECT.
HAVE YOU EVER FOUND THESE PEOPLE? HAVE YOU FOUND 'EM? UH, YOU KNOW, IF THEY STUFF SOME OF 'EM ARE MEDICAL, WE HAVE TO, WELL, IT'S NOT, YEAH.
SOME OF 'EM ARE MEDICAL, BUT I MEAN, UH, BUT I MEAN, BECAUSE YOU COULD PUT A LIEN ON, A LIEN ON, WE COULD, I MEAN, IF WE WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, SEE GARNISHING WAGES, I MEAN YEAH, IF YOU WANT TO GARNISH THEM, BUT I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH IT.
SO WITH THE TAXES, THE DEBT SET OFF DOES HELP OUT TREMENDOUSLY WITH THAT.
UM, THE, UH, UH, UH, ON THE, UM, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE MEDICAL, I'M TALKING ABOUT OVERALL COLLECTION.
AND OUR, AND THE, THE DEBT SET OFF GOES, UH, A LONG WAY WITH THAT.
SO ON THE, UH, UH, FOR OUR, OUR POLICY, OUR OUR BAD DEBT POLICY, UH, IT'S ON THE BOOKS FROM, UH, FOR FIVE YEARS FROM THE LAST DATE OF ACTIVITY.
SO IF THERE'S A PAYMENT ON IT, THAT FIVE YEARS STARTS ALL OVER AGAIN AND WE'LL KEEP THEM ON THE BOOKS AND CONTINUE TO TRY TO COLLECT THEIR DEAD SETTLE.
UM, BUT, UM, WHAT ABOUT THE ONES THAT A COMMERCIAL THAT AREN'T, LIKE THEY DON'T HAVE? YEAH, I WAS GONNA, I WAS GONNA ASK THAT, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW IF, UH, COUNCILMAN RAPPAPORT'S QUESTION WAS DONE.
BUT LIKE, I'M JUST LIKE, CROOKED RUN PLAZA, LIKE 1 35 CROOKED RUN PLAZA.
A LOT OF TIMES IT'S A CORPORATION, THEY'LL GO OUT OF BUSINESS AND IT'S A SEPARATE ENTITY.
UM, SORRY, I WAS JUST THINKING, I WAS LIKE, I SAW THAT AND I WAS LIKE, WELL, THAT'S NOT LIKE A HOUSE OR ANOTHER ISSUE.
SO THEY GO OUT OF BUSINESS IF THEY'RE GOING OUT OF BUSINESS AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA WORRY ABOUT PAYING IT.
I MEAN, WE'RE, WE'RE ROCKING OUR PLACE THERE.
BUT BRUCE'S, UM, POINT, I MEAN, I THINK SOME OF THESE ARE JUST, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH A LIEN COSTS, BUT I WOULD GUESS THAT YOU'RE NOT GONNA DO A LIEN FOR $1.
AND SIX YEARS AGO WE HAD LOOKED INTO THAT, PUTTING A LIEN ON, ON THE PROPERTY.
YOU COULD PLACE A LIEN ON THE PROPERTY, BUT IT COULD ONLY BE FOR WATER.
I DON'T KNOW IF ANYTHING'S CHANGED WITH THAT, BUT, UM, 90% OF WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS ELECTRIC.
YOU KNOW, UH, THE WATER'S GONNA BE A VERY SMALL PORTION OF THESE, UH, BILLS.
UM, THE, UM, UH, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, JUST MANNING THAT IN GENERAL WOULD BE A, UM, TOUGH, I MEAN, LOOKING AT ALL OF THESE, I MEAN, THESE, THESE ARE JUST THE ONES WE ARE WRITING OFF.
UM, WE HAVE A, A HUGE AMOUNT THAT'S STILL IN THAT FIVE YEAR PERIOD.
UH, BUT ONCE THEY GET TO THE POINT OF WRITING OFF OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE, IF THEY'RE NOT PAYING WITHIN SEVEN YEARS, THEN THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT PAYING
GENERALLY THEY'RE NOT COMING BACK IF IT'S, IF IT'S IN, IN THAT LONG.
I WILL SAY THE FIRST TIME I SAW THIS NUMBER CAME ON COUNCIL FIVE YEARS AGO, I WAS LIKE, WHAT IN THE WORLD? BUT I, I'VE, I'VE GOTTEN IMMUNE, MORE IMMUNE TO IT.
'CAUSE I KNOW YOU GUYS TRY REALLY HARD TO COLLECT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AND, AND OR LESS THAN 1% BAD DEBT RATIO THAT'S COME DOWN, THAT'S MY TIME ON.
AND THE MONEY, THE ACTUAL MONEY LOOKS LIKE IT'S GOING UP BY THE YEAR.
BUT ALSO OUR RATES HAVE GONE UP TOO.
SO THEY'RE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? LIKE, SOME OF THAT IS MORE AT RISK RATES HAVE GONE UP.
THE OTHER THING THAT WE'LL, UH, MOST LIKELY HAVE TO, UH, YOU KNOW, SEE HOW THIS WORKS OUT IS OUR NEW DISCONNECT POLICY THAT WAS MANDATED BY THE COMMONWEALTH.
UM, I THINK SO FAR, KNOCK ON WOOD, WE'RE DOING REALLY GOOD, UH, WITH OUR, OUR RECEIVABLES, UM, YOU KNOW, WHERE IT LEADS US IN THE FUTURE.
UH, BUT IT DOES LEAVE MORE ROOM FOR, FOR THIS TO INCREASE.
BUT WE'RE, UH, CERTAINLY KEEPING A CLOSE EYE ON THAT.
AND WASN'T THERE A TIME DURING THIS WHERE YOU COULDN'T CUT OFF OF TRAFFIC THINGS? UH, UH, DURING COVID WE COULD NOT
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CUT OFF.UH, WE WERE THE FIRST LOCALITY IN VIRGINIA TO ACTUALLY REESTABLISH SHUTOFFS.
UM, BUT YES, THERE WAS A PERIOD IN THERE WE HAD TO, WHICH THIS IS LIKE ALL COVID.
I WAS GONNA SAY, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
WAS THAT YOU? ARE YOU DONE? I'M DONE.
ALRIGHT, NEXT UP IS A, UH, REQUEST FOR A REIMBURSEMENT OF AN SUP APPLICATION.
AND MS. CAPISH IS GOING TO COME UP AND TALK TO US ABOUT THAT.
SO, UM, I DON'T HAVE A SLIDE FOR THIS ITEM.
THIS ITEM IS JUST, UM, DEPENDEN ON
YOU GUYS ARE THE ONE THAT CAN GRANT IT.
WAS THIS, WAS THIS DONE WITH, UH, THE BARN HERE? I BELIEVE IT WAS HONOR IF YOU CONFIRM THAT BEFORE THERE HAVE BEEN OTHER NON-PROFITS THAT HAVE COME IN AND ASKED FOR REIMBURSEMENTS OR WAIVER.
ARE THEY A NON-PROFIT? THEY ARE A NONPROFIT.
SHE PROVIDED THAT DOCUMENTATION.
BUT THE WAY IT IS, IS LIKE WE HAVE TO TAKE IN THE FEE TO TAKE IN THE APPLICATION AND WELL, YEAH, THEY JUST REIMBURSE HIM FOR US.
DO YOU WANNA ASK FIRST AND THEN WE'LL HAVE MR. SON AND HE'S, I THOUGHT WE JUST PASSED AN ORDINANCE BILLS, UM, THAT REDUCES IT BY 20%, WHICH THAT JUST BECAME EFFECTIVE WHEN YOU PASSED IT.
THE OTHER NINE THAT 34 SUBMITTED BEFORE.
SO THIS WAS SUBMITTED A COUPLE MONTHS AGO.
THIS ALREADY CAME THROUGH PLANNING COMMISSION FOR YOU AGAIN, MS. MR. SON.
SO THE SUMMARY STATES TOWN CODE DOES NOT PROVIDE GUIDANCE ON WAIVING FEES FOR NONPROFITS.
UH, BUT STATE LAW DOES, WHICH I JUST CIRCULATED, UM, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE STATUTE SEVERAL TIMES IN THE PAST.
UH, 15.2 9 53 A, A FEE WAIVER IN MY VIEW IS, IS TANTAMOUNT TO A DONATION.
AND SO THE AUTHORITY, AGAIN, THIS IS MY OPINION, THE AUTHORITY FOR MAKING A DONATION NEEDS TO BE FOUND WITHIN THE FOUR CORNERS OF THIS STATUTE.
UM, HABITAT FOR HUMANITY, FOR INSTANCE, IT'S ENUMERATED IN THE STATUTE.
UM, UH, THE STATEMENT IS THAT, UM, THEY, THAT THE APPLICANT'S PROVIDED VERIFICATION DOCUMENTS.
UM, BUT I THINK, UH, IT, IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THIS APPLICANT'S DISQUALIFIED BASED ON THE FIRST SENTENCE OF 15.2 9 53.
AND I CAN JUST, I CAN READ THAT ANY LOCALITY, UH, MAY MAKE APPROPRIATIONS OF PUBLIC FUNDS, PERSONAL PROPERTY, ET CETERA, AND DONATIONS, UH, TO ANY, UM, TO ANY CHARITABLE INSTITUTION, WHICH I THINK MEANS TAX EXEMPT.
IRS NOT JUST A STATE NOT-FOR-PROFIT.
THERE IS A DISTINCTION, UM, OR ASSOCIATION LOCATED WITHIN THEIR RESPECTIVE LIMITS OR OUTSIDE THEIR LIMITS.
IF SUCH INSTITUTION OR ASSOCIATION PROVIDES SERVICES TO RESIDENTS OF THE LOCALITY, HOWEVER, SUCH INSTITUTION OR ASSOCIATION SHALL NOT BE CONTROLLED IN WHOLE OR IN PART BY ANY CHURCH OR SECTARIAN SOCIETY.
SO, UM, AGAIN, I HAVEN'T SEEN THE SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS, BUT I THINK THERE'S A CONCERN HERE THAT, THAT THEY, THEY DO NOT QUALIFY FOR A DONATION.
AREN'T WE A LITTLE PREMATURE IN TALKING ABOUT THIS UNTIL WE GET TO THE SUP? WELL, ACTUALLY, I, I ASKED THAT VERY SAME THING WHEN WE WERE PUTTING THIS ON THE AGENDA, BUT THE, THIS IS JUST THEM ASKING TO NOT NOT PAY THE APPLICATION FEE, WHICH THEY HAVE PAID FOR.
SO REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME OF THE ACTUAL, UM, SUP, THEY'RE SAYING REGARDLESS WHETHER IT GETS APPROVED OR NOT, THEY WOULD LIKE TO, TO TO NOT PAY FOR THE APPLICATION FEE.
SO BEING REIMBURSED, THEY'VE ALREADY PAID.
[00:30:01]
THE MONEY.YEAH, I, I, MR. SONIC GAVE US INFORMATION, BUT I, I DO WANNA SAY THIS, AND THIS MIGHT BE OFF TOPIC, ONE TOPIC, I'M GONNA SAY IT 'CAUSE I'VE SAID IT BEFORE.
I REALLY WISH THAT OUR TOWN CODE DID NOT HAVE ALL OF THESE PLACES WHERE IT COMES TO COUNSEL TO WAIVE THIS AND WAIVE THAT, TO WAIVE THIS AND WAIVE THAT.
BECAUSE IT REALLY PUTS THE COUNSEL IN A POSITION OF, OF EVALUATING OR JUDGING ON SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, PUTTING, PUTTING PARAMETERS ON SOMETHING THAT THEN YOU'RE TRYING TO DECIDE.
AND THEN ALSO IT'S NOT CONSISTENT.
LIKE THE COUNCIL FIVE YEARS AGO DOES ONE THING AND THE COUNCIL, YOU KNOW, 10 YEARS LATER DOES THIS.
AND LIKE I SAID, THERE'S, UH, I HAD ACTUALLY TALKED TO, UM, MR. PETTY ABOUT THIS.
'CAUSE I HAD SAID THIS BEFORE WHEN I WAS ON COUNCIL, LIKE, YOU KNOW, ALL THE DIFFERENT WAIVERS THAT COME IN.
AND THE THING IS, IS THAT THESE APPLICATION FEES WERE SET UP WITH IN MIND THE STAFF TIME THAT IT TAKES THE ADVERTISEMENTS THAT IT TAKES.
I MEAN, WE DON'T NECESSARILY, I MEAN, WE'RE NOT MAKING MONEY OFF OF THESE APPLICATION FEES BY ANY MEANS.
ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO GO AND DO.
UM, SO, BUT THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S AN OPINION THAT'S BASED ON JUST OVERALL HOLISTIC ABOUT WAIVERS VERSUS NOT NECESSARILY THIS PARTICULAR ONE.
I'M JUST SAYING IN GENERAL, I FEEL LIKE I'VE SEEN THIS COUNCIL AND ONES THAT I'VE SERVED ON OVER THE YEARS, MULTIPLE TIMES WE'VE, UH, BEEN FACED WITH WAIVERS.
AND YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, IN IN SOME CASES, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE FELT GUILTY THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WAIVED OR DIDN'T WAIVE THAT SOMEHOW THAT MEANT YOU WERE JUDGING THAT PARTICULAR ORGANIZATION.
I, THAT'S WHAT THE PUBLIC'S GONNA SAY.
THAT'S WHY I SAID I, IN SOME WAYS I WISH A WAIVER WAS NOT EVEN IN OUR TOWN CODE.
AND THEN IT DOESN'T PUT IT ON ANYBODY'S, YOU KNOW, IN ANYBODY'S PLATE.
SO ANYWAY, MAY, MAY ASK THE COUNSELOR QUESTION.
UM, THERE WAS A LETTER IN OUR PACKET ON NOVEMBER 7TH, DATED NOVEMBER 17TH, 2013.
DID YOU SEE THAT LETTER? IT'S THEIR STATE.
AND THERE'S, UH, THERE'S A PARAGRAPH IN THERE.
UNDER ARE ORGANIZATION EXEMPT UNDER SECTION 5 0 1 C3 OF THE CODE PREFER THE CLASSIFIED AS EITHER PUBLIC CHARITIES OR PRIVATE FOUNDATIONS.
WE DETERMINE THAT YOU ARE A PUBLIC CHARITY UNDER THE CODE SECTION A LISTED IN HEADING IN THIS LETTER.
WHAT CODE SECTION WE WOULD HAVE TO GIVE DEEP INTO THE WEEDS.
JUST KNOWING HOW I'M JUST, I'M JUST ASKING THE QUESTION.
NO, I KNOW, BUT I'M, I'M JUST SAYING THAT WE'D HAVE TO GET DEEP INTO THE WEEDS TO FORCE OUT WHETHER IT'S CONTROLLED BY A CHURCH OR NOT.
AND I, I WOULD SUSPECT THAT THERE'S PROBABLY SOME BOARD MEMBERS, YOU KNOW, AND DOES THAT COUNT, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
UM, I WAS THINKING THAT THE UM, EVEN THOUGH IT SAYS HERE THE 20% IS NOT SUBJECT, I MEAN, I WOULD'VE BEEN COMFORTABLE IF, IF WE DETERMINED THAT IT COULD BE LEGAL FOR US TO DO IT, I THINK WE COULD GO AHEAD AND DO DO WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO NOW.
WE WANT TO THE 20%, EVEN THOUGH IT CAME IN BEFOREHAND, WE CAN START USING THAT GUIDELINE.
BUT WOULDN'T THE 20% STILL CONSIST OF A, OF A GIFT THOUGH? YEAH, IT'D BE, IT WOULD BE $80 I THINK.
RIGHT? I'M NOT DOING MY MATH RIGHT.
I WOULD THINK FROM THE COUNTY STANDPOINT.
IF WE COULDN'T DO ONE, WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE DO THE OTHER, DO WE, DO WE WAVE SCHOOLS IN GENERAL? I'M JUST CURIOUS.
LIKE DO WE WAIVE, DO WE, DO WE WAIVE ANY OTHER KIND OF, LIKE, I'M JUST THINKING OF SOME OF THE OTHER SCHOOLS IN THE COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN LIKE DAYCARE SLASH SCHOOLS.
SO LIKE NEW HOPE SCHOOL THERE OR RIVERTON SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THAT'S, I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF WE'VE DONE THAT IN THE PAST WITH OTHER SCHOOLS.
DO WE? NO, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THAT FILE THE OTHER DAY.
I DIDN'T SEE ANY WAIVER IN THE RIVERTON.
I NOTICED THE OTHER DAY, UH, IN FULL DISCLOSURE AMONG THE SALVATION ARMY BOARD THAT WE GOT OUR, OUR TAX BILLS IN, AND IT'S PRORATED
[00:35:01]
BECAUSE WE GOT A CHURCH THERE THAT'S A CHURCH.HOWEVER, WITHIN THE CHURCH IT'S SOCIAL SERVICES AND A FOOD BANK.
SO I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
YOU GOT PARTIAL THE REAL ESTATE TAX, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? YES.
SO THE REAL, UH, ON THE REAL ESTATE TAX, IT'LL BE, UM, UH, EXEMPTED FOR WHATEVER PORTION OF THE YEAR IT, THE OWNER FELL UNDER THAT EXEMPTION.
SO IT'D RATED FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME.
SO IF IT WAS, IF THEY TOOK OWNERSHIP OF IT, YOU KNOW, MIDWAY THROUGH THE YEAR, THEN IT WOULD BE FOR THOSE FEW MONTHS.
'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S BEEN THERE A FEW YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS.
SO I WAS, I WAS CONFUSED ASSUMING A CHURCH WOULD BE NON-PROFIT, BUT I COULD ONLY ASSUME THAT BECAUSE THERE'S THESE OTHER FUNCTIONS GOING ON WITHIN THE CHURCH BUILDING AND A SORTING WAREHOUSE IN THE BACK OF THE, THE STORE THAT, THAT'S, I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT ONE.
WELL IT IS, BUT I THINK WHAT THE PROBLEM IS IS THAT THE, THE STATE DID THIS, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THE STATE'S OPINION ON THE CHURCH.
UM, BUT YES, THEY ARE A NONPROFIT AND YES, THEY, THEY COULD GO FOR SUCH SERVICE TYPE THINGS.
BUT IT'S JUST THIS SITUATION WITH THE STATE.
I KNOW YOU HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH NON-PROFITS.
AND THE STATE, I DON'T REALLY HEAR WHAT THE STATE OR THE IRS SAYING.
UM, I WOULD BE, UM, OPEN TO THE SUGGESTION THAT, UH, COUNCILMAN DOPA JUST MENTIONED IMPLEMENTING WHAT WE JUST PASSED BECAUSE WE PASSED THAT UNANIMOUSLY AS A COUNCIL.
MY OTHER CONCERN WITH THIS ONE IS FOR A FULL REFUND, WE'VE ALSO UTILIZED THE RESOURCES OF THE FRONT ROYAL POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THEIR EQUIPMENT AND INFRASTRUCTURE TO DO A SURVEY AND A STUDY THAT WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS LATER IN THE AGENDA TONIGHT TO CHECK THE SPEED AND TRAFFIC ZONE INFORMATION.
SO A LOT MORE STUDY AND TIME AND STAFF EFFORT HAS GONE INTO THIS SEP THAN IN THE OTHER SEP IN MY OPINION.
YEAH, NO, THAT, THAT, THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING.
LIKE IT, AND I THINK WE'VE PASSED SOMETHING WITH THE INTENT TO BE CONSISTENT.
SO NOW LET'S, WE CAN RETROACTIVELY BE CONSISTENT WITH THIS APPLICATION BECAUSE IT'S BEFORE US, BUT LITERALLY UNDER OLD BUSINESS COMING UP IN JUST A FEW ITEMS. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING FOR THE THIRD TIME, I BELIEVE.
I JUST, YEAH, I JUST WANT, I WANT TO KNOW IF, IF WE ESTABLISH THE PRECEDENT WITH, WITH, UH, THE GIRLS SCHOOL AND AT BON AIR, THEN, YOU KNOW, I DON'T SEE HOW WE CAN, IT'S A DIFFERENT COUNCIL.
WE MAKE DIFFERENT DECISIONS AND I'M TRYING TO THINK ON, I'M JUST SAYING THAT, THAT, THAT YOU, YOU'VE ESTABLISHED A PROCESS.
I DON'T REMEMBER WAIVING IT THREE YEARS SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY.
I REMEMBER GOING THERE BECAUSE IT'S SHORT TERM RENTAL AND THEN SCHOOL.
I DON'T REMEMBER VOTING ON WAIVING IT, BUT I DON'T EITHER.
YOU'VE DONE A LOT IN THREE YEARS, BUT YES.
CAN WE GET MORE INFORMATION? THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT I WAS THIS NEXT WEEK AND WHEN I WAS ACTUALLY GONNA SAY WHEN COUNCILMAN RAPPAPORT ASKED ABOUT THAT AND YOU SAID YOU WEREN'T SURE, WE CAN TABLE IT AND BRING IT BACK NEXT WEEK AND PLEASE THEN HAVE SOME MORE INFORMATION MAYBE ABOUT AT LEAST THE PAST.
BUT AGAIN, JUST 'CAUSE WE DID IT IN THE PAST DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO DO IT NOW.
NO, BUT YOU LET SOME BUILDERS FIND OUT THAT YEAH, I COULD POINT OUT TO COUNSEL, IF YOU LOOK AT THE LAST SENTENCE ON THE BACK, UH, PARAGRAPH F IT ADDRESSES ADDRESSES THAT ISSUE.
DID YOU HAPPEN TO SEE WHEN DID THIS GO INTO THE EFFECT? DO YOU KNOW THIS CODE? OH, UM, I, WE PRINTED IT OFF TODAY.
IT'S BEEN AMENDED OVER THE YEARS.
THE LAST AMENDMENT WAS IN 2022, CORRECT.
SO THAT'S GONNA GO ON NEXT WEEK.
SO TABLE OR NOT TABLE, BUT GOING BACK UP.
UM, THEN NEXT IS THE, UM, SOCIAL USE PERMIT FOR A FARMER'S MARKET, UM, AT HAPPY CREEK ANTIQUES.
SO THIS UH, PROPERTY, THIS ONE IS SEW C ONE.
SO THAT'S YOUR COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.
AND THIS IS AT THE CORNER OF, WHAT IS IT? SIXTH STREET AND NORTH COMMERCE.
UM, SO WHAT THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING HERE, UH, IF I CAN GET TO IT, IS IN THIS PARKING LOT TO DO A FARMER'S
[00:40:01]
MARKET IN THE C ONE DISTRICT THAT IS REQUIRED OR BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT.UM, BUT THEY WANT TO DO, THERE'S GONNA BE PHASES.
THE FIRST PHASE IS GONNA BE A COUPLE OF RAISED BEDS.
UM, AND THEN I BELIEVE THE SECOND PHASE THEY'RE GONNA ACTUALLY DO AN IN GROUND GARDEN.
AND THEN THE THIRD PHASE THEY WERE DISCUSSING DOING FRUIT TREES.
WHAT DEFINES A FARMER'S MARKET? UM, BECAUSE I'M SORRY, THERE'S ONE RIGHT BESIDE THAT.
AND THAT, THAT NEVER CAME BEFORE COUNSEL.
I KNOW 'CAUSE I PULLED IN THERE TO BUY SOMETHING THE OTHER DAY.
SHE'S TALKING ABOUT IN THE LITTLE ORANGE HOUSE RIGHT BESIDE OF IT.
THEY BUT OUT FRONT THEY'RE, WELL THEY WERE ON ROYAL AVENUE AND THEN THEY MOVED, BUT NO, NOW IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS THEY'RE SELLING PLANTS VEGETABLES.
YEAH, I SAW, I SAW IT YESTERDAY.
RIGHT? THAT'S THAT NEVER CAME BEFORE COUNCIL.
THAT IS BY DEFINITION THE SAME THING.
WELL, IT SAID A COLLECTION OF I DON'T HAVE THAT.
IT'S NOT PERMITTED, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING.
I'M NOT TELLING THEM PEOPLE, HEY, I'M BIG ON ASK FOR FORGIVENESS AFTER PERMISSION WHEN IT COMES TO, TO BETTERING THE COMMUNITY COLLECTION OF TWO OR MORE VENDORS.
AND THAT MIGHT BE WHAT IT IS, IS THAT THAT PLACE IS LIKE ONE RETAIL, PUT THIS INTO LIKE BEING A FARMER'S MARKET.
IT'S NOT JUST LIKE A COMMUNITY GARDEN IS WHEN YOU ACTUALLY GROW THE PRODUCE AND THEN START SELLING 'EM.
IT'S THAT TRANSACTION THAT'S REQUIRING THE, THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT THAT THIS IS AN ACCESSORY USE.
THAT'S WHY THE SUP 'CAUSE IT'S ALREADY A COMMERCIAL ENTITY, RIGHT? IT WAS A LUMBER HARDWARE STORE.
IT WASN'T A CHANGE OF USE, IT WAS COMMERCIAL RETAILER.
MAKE A DISCLOSURE ON YEAH, GO AHEAD.
UH, FEEL LIKE CAN STILL VOTE FAIRLY FOR THE TOWN AND THE APPLICANT, BUT THE APPLICANT IS IN MY WIFE'S FAMILY, SO I'M JUST GONNA FOLLOW, UH, COUNCILMAN OCK UP WITH, THAT'S WHY I WAS JUST GETTING READY TO SAY, SO THE APPLICANT IS MY FAMILY
UM, BUT, BUT WHAT I WANTED TO SAY IS ONLY BECAUSE I MET WITH THE APPLICANT AND PLANNING AND ZONING OFFICIALS WHEN, UM, WHEN SHE ACTUALLY WANTED TO DISCUSS LIKE, THIS IS, THIS IS MY VISION AND HOW CAN I DO THAT? AND JOHN AND DANIEL WERE THERE AND JOHN HAD DONE A LOT OF LIKE RESEARCH PRIOR TO IT AND HE'S LIKE LOOKING THROUGH BOOKS AND HE FELT LIKE THIS, THIS FARMER'S MARKET WOULD BE THE ONLY THIS, THIS WOULD BE THE WAY TO BE ABLE TO, TO TO, TO UH, THE LANGUAGE FOR THAT VISION OF THEIRS TO, TO COME TO FRUITION BECAUSE IT COULD BE TWO OR MORE VENDORS.
BECAUSE YEAH, THAT WAS THE IDEA.
SO I WAS JUST SAYING THAT THAT'S, I KNOW IT MIGHT SEEM ODD TO CALL IT A FARMER'S MARKET, BUT THAT'S REALLY WHAT IT, THATS, THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE BEST WAY FOR IT.
THIS ISN'T CRAFTS OR ANYTHING THAT'S NOT GROWN.
THAT'S NOT WHY I ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT DEFINITION.
IT'S BECAUSE OF MY OPINION AND FEELING IT'S GONNA BE REALLY SHOCKING TO THIS COUNCIL AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
BUT IF YOU OWN A COMMERCIAL BUSINESS AND YOU'RE ALREADY IN COMPLIANCE AND YOU HAVE WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, I FEEL LIKE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO RUN WHATEVER COMMERCIAL BUSINESS YOU WANT ON IT, NOT HAVE TO GET A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING WITH IT.
LIKE I JUST FEEL LIKE IT IS ALREADY A COMMERCIAL BUSINESS.
I JUST FEEL LIKE THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO OPEN THEIR FARMER'S MARKET WITHOUT FOREVER HAVING TO DO THAT.
I THINK IT'S 'CAUSE OF WAS ADAM IN THE PARKING LOT.
AND I ALSO THINK THAT AS I RECALL FROM WHAT MR. WEIR DISCUSSED WAS ALSO THAT RIGHT NOW THEY WERE GONNA DO RAISED BEDS THROUGH THE PARKING LOT.
BUT THE IDEA IS IF YOU GO BACK, IF YOU GO BACK, BACK IN THE BACK, UM, IN THAT WELL BACK THERE IS WHERE THEY ARE HOPING TO PUT A GARDEN, WHICH ACTUALLY THERE WAS ALREADY A GARDEN THERE YEARS AGO WHEN MRS. LEN, WHEN THEY OWNED LEN LUMBER COMPANY.
AND IT'S OUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT, UM, THEY HAD A GARDEN BACK THERE, BUT THEY SHARED IT WITH PEOPLE OF PEOPLE THAT WERE FOOD INSECURED THAT, SO THEY WOULD SHARE THAT.
SO I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT MS. FALL WOULD LIKE EVENTUALLY.
PHASES OF IT THAT'S IN OUR PACKET.
THAT SHE WOULD EVENTUALLY BE WANTING TO DO THAT.
SO I GUESS THE OTHER CAVEAT IN THE CODE IS THAT TYPICALLY THE USES IN THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT HAVE TO BE FULLY ENCLOSED WITHIN THE STRUCTURE.
SO FOR THIS TO BE AN ACCESSORY USE, IT'S NOT HAPPENING WITHIN THE ENCLO STRUCTURE.
IT'S HAPPENING IN THE PARKING LOT IN THE OPEN AIR PARKING LOT.
WE HAVE TO ACQUIRE OUR CODE MAY REQUIRE, THIS IS A BUSINESS THAT WOULD BETTER THE OPEN AIR OUTSIDE BY NOT BEING AN INSIDE THING.
THAT'S WHY I SAID I WAS LIKE, MY OTHER THING WAS 39 PARKING SPACES A BIG EXCESSIVE, WE ALL KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS IN THE TOWN OF
[00:45:01]
I UNDERSTAND THE LEGALITIES OF IT ALL.
I DON'T HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTION.
DOESN'T SOUND LIKE WE'RE HAVING ANY HEARTBURN ON NO, I THINK I HAVE HEART OF THEM HAVING TO ASK.
WELL, I WAS GONNA SAY, SO THE FIRST THING THAT THIS COUNCIL NEEDED TO DO WAS ASK STAFF IF THEY HAD ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ACTUAL PERMITS, LIKE BEING ABLE TO HAVE A FARMER'S MARKET THERE.
IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE ANYBODY HAS ANY ISSUES WITH THAT.
PART TWO ARE ALL THE, UM, STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE PROBABLY NEED TO GIVE PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT.
UM, SO THE FIRST ONE IS ABOUT BASICALLY MAKING THE PARKING LOT HAVE A TRAFFIC FLOW TO IT.
SO DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? NO, I'M NOT SAYING YOU AGREE WITH IT OR NOT.
I'M JUST SAYING, ASKING THE QUESTIONS.
THAT'S ALL I'M TRYING TO GET AT THE, I HOPE, I'M SORRY.
THEY'VE GOT ONE OFF OF, WHAT IS THAT? I'M SORRY.
BLACK TOPS WHERE THEY WANNA PUT THE ORCHARD OR THE GARDEN.
IS THAT JUST ROUND? I THINK THE, THAT'S BEHIND TOP AREA.
THAT'S, I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE WAS SOMETHING, THE RAISES BEEN AROUND TO BE ON THE, ON THE BLACK TOP AREA.
NO, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF LATER IF THEY COULD PUT STUFF IN THE GROUND.
THEY'LL HAVE TO TELL WHEN YOU COME DOWN SIX TO THE LEFT FOR AREA THAT'S NOT PAID.
BUT I DON'T THINK THE 21ST PLANNING COMMISSION HELD THEIR PUBLIC HEARING.
SO THESE RECOMMENDATIONS, THESE CONDITIONS WERE RECOMMENDED BY PLANNING COMMISSION AND ESSENTIALLY TOWN STAFF.
UM, BUT THIS IS JUST TO HELP TRAFFIC FLOW, TO KEEP PEOPLE DRIVING WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DRIVING AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY CONTINUE TO HAVE ENOUGH PARKING SPACES FOR THE CODE.
YEAH, SO IT'S THE DIRECTIONAL ERRORS.
SO THE PLACE, I MEAN WE'VE GOT, THEY'VE GOTTA HAVE 39 PARKING SPACES FOR THE CODE.
THEY ALREADY HAVE 39 PARKING SPACES.
I PROBABLY GOT MORE THAN THAT.
SO IT'S IN THAT THEY CAN'T TAKE ANY OF THOSE AWAY.
BUT WE ALL KNOW IF I WERE TO MAKE A MOTION ON THIS, I WOULD SAY THEY DON'T HAVE TO STRIKE THE STRIFE, THE PARKING SPACES AND THEN KEEP 39 OPEN BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN PARK ON SIXTH STREET AND FIND A WAY TO WALK THERE IF THEY WANT TO OR SIXTH.
I I SUSPECT THEY WERE PROBABLY GONNA RETRIP ANYWAY FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY OF WHERE IT YEAH, YEAH.
JUST TO GET, SO THAT, I GET IT.
PEOPLE ARE COMING AND GOING BUT SO NUMBER FOUR IS SAYING A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT OF 39 AND THEY ALREADY HAVE 39, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? JUST SAYING THEY CAN'T TAKE ANY AWAY.
THEY CAN'T, THEY CANNOT REMOVE PARKING SPACES.
SO I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE RETRIP IS COMING IN TO MAKING SURE THAT AS THEY'RE PUTTING LARGE OBJECTS IN THE PARKING LOT, THAT EVERYTHING IS DIRECTED PROPERLY AND THAT THEY CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN ADEQUATE PARKING.
THE APPLICANT IS OKAY WITH THESE CONDITION.
QUESTION? YES, THAT WAS YOUR ANSWER,
WELL, I MEAN, HONOR EVERYTHING THAT'S UP THERE, GEORGE.
SORRY, IIII MEAN WE WOULD, WE WOULD, WHEN WE BRING THIS TO THE COUNCIL MEETING, THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING WE WOULD BE ABLE TO ASK THE APPLICANT QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
OR YOU KNOW, THERE, SO IF IT'S ALL RIGHT, YOU KNOW, I I JUST BECAUSE COUNSEL ASKED LIKE, BECAUSE THAT NUMBER FOUR IS PROBABLY THE THING THAT KNOWING THIS COUNSEL BE THE ONE THING THAT PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE CLARIFY THAT NUMBER FOUR IS, IS NOT, THAT'S NOT CORRECT.
I HAVE A, IN ALL ACTUALITY, I HAVE 102 PARKING SPACES ON THAT PROPERTY.
SO EVEN IF I TAKE AWAY THE 39 IS WHAT IS NEEDED FOR A HAPPY CREEK ANTIQUE ITSELF.
THE BUILDING, THE ENTIRE BUILDING, JUST, JUST THAT BUILDING IS OVER 20,000 SQUARE FEET AND IT HAS FOUR SEPARATE SPACES ALL REQUIRING A NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES.
THE 39 IS WHAT'S REQUIRED FOR HAPPY CREEK ANTIQUES ITSELF.
UM, I HAVE 50, EVEN IF I TAKE AWAY IN THAT SAME LOT, EVEN IF I TAKE AWAY 11 OF THEM FOR THE 39 PARKING SPACES, NOT THAT I'LL EVER 39 PARKING SPACES FOR HAPPY CREEK ANTIQUES ALL AT ONCE ANYWAY.
BUT I HAVE THAT AND, AND MORE.
ALRIGHT, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE ALL UNDERSTOOD.
SO THIS WOULD, THIS IS GONNA BE A PUBLIC HEARING.
DO WE HAVE IT'S EARLY IN THE MONTH.
SO SINCE IT'S THIRD, SO IF, IF COUNSEL WANTS THIS TO BE ON, IS IT THE 23RD? JUNE 20.
I KEEP WRITING THE 24TH BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE BEEN SAYING.
I'M ON SCHOOL, I'M ON SCHOOL VACATION TIME.
[00:50:01]
BUT IF IT'S, IF COUNSEL IS INTERESTED IN, DO WE WANT THIS AS A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE 23RD OR DO Y'ALL WANNA GET MORE INFORMATION? THINK WE NEED WE GOING FOR 23RD.SO SO PUBLIC HEARING ON THE 23RD.
YEAH, I, WE'D HAVE TO CHANGE TOWN CODE I THINK TO AVOID IT.
HE SAID HE'D LIKE TO NOT HAVE A PUBLIC WHICH SAME YOU WANT PUBLIC HEARING.
I WAS LIKE, I WOULD LIKE TO GO TO THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
BECAUSE I THINK MANY US AGREE.
I THINK YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SET UP A FARMER'S MARKETING WHERE YOU WANT RETAIL ALREADY, BUT WE'RE WHERE WE ARE APPLICANT IS RIGHT.
THE NEXT I'D RATHER SEE FARMER'S MARKET.
THE NEXT ITEM IS A SHORT TERM RENTAL ON SIX SIX WEST STRASSBURG ROAD.
SO THIS IS UP ON, UH, WEST STRASSBURG ROAD.
YOU SHOULD BE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THIS AREA.
THIS STRUCTURE'S BEEN RENOVATED.
THEY'RE ASKING FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
STAFF IS RECOMMENDING DENIAL BECAUSE THERE'S NO PARKING, THERE'S NO OFF STREET PARKING ON SITE.
UM, PLANNING COMMISSION DID RECOMMEND APPROVAL IF THEY CAN PROVIDE IT.
IT PASSED ALL OF ITS INSPECTION.
UM, OTHERWISE IT JUST DIDN'T HAVE ANY PARKING.
THAT'S THE ONE THAT HAD A FIRE, RIGHT? OR SOMETHING? NO, IT WASN'T A FIRE, BUT I, I I REMEMBER WHAT FIRE ONE, EVERYTHING'S BEEN DEMOLISHED, SO IT'S KIND OF HARD.
YEAH, I KNOW IT APRON IS THIS LOOKS LIKE THE, THAT'S ON THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY.
YEAH, THERE'S A SURVEY STAKE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.
THE PROPERTY HAS NO PARKING EXAMPLE, THEY'RE OFF THE, THE STREET.
UM, HE'S GOT, I THINK THEY GOT ONE, ONE SPOT IN THE FRONT, BUT IT'S PUBLIC PARK BECAUSE YOU WANT IT.
YOU CAN, I MEAN IT'S A 55 FOOT WIDE LOT.
SO I JUST, WE JUST KEEP COMING BACK TO THIS AGAIN, AS I WAS SAYING, SHARING WITH SOMEBODY EARLIER THIS EVENING THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE SHORT TERM RENTAL CODE WAS PASSED ALL THESE YEARS, SEVERAL YEARS AGO.
I WAS ON THE COUNCIL AT THE TIME WHEN THEN THAT HAPPENED AND IT PARKING CONTINUES TO KEEP COMING UP AND WE KEEP SAYING MAYBE WE NEED TO REVISIT IT.
I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THIS COUNCIL WANTS TO BITE THAT BULLET, YOU KNOW.
BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S THE THING THAT KEEPS HAPPENING.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT THE ACTUAL USE, BUT IT'S THE, IT'S THE WHETHER OR NOT WE WANNA REQUIRE ALL THE, UM, THE USE HAS BEEN QUESTIONED ON SEVERAL OF 'EM YEAH.
BUT I'M SAYING THE PARKING HAS BEEN THE THING THAT ALWAYS SEEMS TO BE THE ISSUE.
DISCUSS MORE OF AGREE BECAUSE AS WE ALL KNOW, THIS CAN BE A LONG-TERM RENTAL AND WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO SAY OVER IT.
SO 10 PEOPLE COULD MOVE IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE WITH 10 CARS AND THIS COUNCIL WOULD HAVE NO JURISDICTION OVER IT OTHER THAN WE COULD, UM, MAKE NO PARKING AVAILABLE.
BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE, AND WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WEST RIGHT UP THERE WITH A COUPLE TOWNHOUSES THAT HAVE SIX CARS A A TRAILER.
HE COULDN'T MAKE NO PARKING AVAILABLE.
NO, HE WAS SAYING LIKE WHAT WE'RE DOING OVER ON ROYAL LANE.
I I'M JUST SAYING THAT THAT'S WHAT HE WAS.
I'M SURE HE IS KIDDING, BUT I GET YOU COUNSEL.
DO WE, DOES ANYBODY WANNA DISCUSS THIS MORE? NO, THE ONLY THING THAT I NOTICED WHEN I WAS OUT THERE LOOKING AT IT WAS WHERE THE, WHERE THE FIRE HYDRANT IS, UH, THAT NEEDS TO BE MARKED.
IT NEEDS TO SO THAT NOBODY PARK 13 FEET FROM IT.
I DON'T YOU SERIOUS? NO, I'M NOT GIGGLING AT YOU.
THERE'S BEEN A COUPLE PLACES WE'VE BEEN IDENTIFIED AROUND TOWN THAT ISN'T THAT, THAT NEEDS SOME PAINTING AS LONG AS YOU GOT FREE ACCESS TO IT AND I MEAN THE ACCESS IS THERE.
AND FURTHER DOWN THERE, THERE ARE SIGNS WHERE THERE'S NO PARKING IN BETWEEN THE, UH, TOWARD THE HAMMER THAT MM-HMM
THERE'S NO PARKING ON THE UM, CAN YOU PULL BACK THE ON HAND SIDE? YEAH, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, BUT THERE'S BUT THERE'S ALSO SIGNS WHERE ARE TALKING.
THERE'S SIGNS NO PARKING ON THE SOUTH SIDE, YOU CAN'T BLOCK.
SO AS YOU'RE DRIVING, YOU CAN'T BLOCK THAT HAMMER BECAUSE THAT'S, AND ALSO WHEN THERE WERE HOUSES, INGRESS, EGRESS, EMERGENCY NICHOLS, THERE'S A COUPLE OF SIGNS DOWN THERE.
I THINK WE NEED TO VERY REVISIT THAT.
THERE'S NO HOUSES THERE OTHER THAN ONE.
I I'M JUST SAYING THERE ARE SIGNS UP THERE.
WELL, AND THAT, BUT SHE SAID IT WAS FOR
[00:55:01]
EMERGENCY VEHICLEIT'S PROBABLY, THERE'S NO PARKING SIGNS OVER THAT HAMMER HAS, THAT'S GONNA BE HOW THEY TURN AROUND.
IT'S BETWEEN THE HAMMER AND AND THE BACK AND THERE'S A DWELLING.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS ONE THAT LOOKED AT, THERE'S 10, THERE'S 30 AND THERE'S 40.
THERE'S ONE 40 FOURS RIGHT HERE BESIDE 30.
THESE ARE ALL, THESE ARE ALL GONE HERE.
YOU I'M JUST SAYING THAT THERE'S SIGNS, THERE'S SIGNS FROM WHERE THEY, THE HAMMER IS BACK.
ANTICIPATE THAT ALL OF THAT'LL BE REEVALUATED WHEN THAT GETS DEVELOPED.
SNOW PLOWS HAVE TO TURN AROUND FIRE TRUCKS.
AND WHOEVER'S BUILDING THEIR TOWN HAS DOWN THERE GONNA HAVE TO TURN SOMETHING INTO YOU ANYWAY.
BUT IF COUNCIL WANTS US TO TAKE UP THE SHORT TERM RENTAL VALUE, YOU CAN ALWAYS DIRECT PLANNING COMMISSION TO DO THAT AND NOT DO IT AS A WHOLE PIECE OF ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO DID YOU ALL HEAR, WELL WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE TOWN CODE SAID NO.
SHE SAID THAT WE COULD, IF WE WANTED TO, WE COULD, WE COULD DIRECT PLANNING COMMISSION TO START EVALUATING WHETHER OR NOT WITH JUST THAT PORTION OF IT ABOUT THE PARKING.
I'D BE, I'D BE IN FAVOR OF DOING, I KNEW YOU WOULD BE A WHAT DO Y'ALL THINK I'M IN FAVOR OF ANYTHING THAT GIVES CLARITY TO OUR PLANNING COMMISSION THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO RECOMMEND.
YOU ADD A PLACE AND WE SAID NO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO ADD A PLACE.
IT IT'S NONSENSE TO KEEP YEAH.
FOR AN ORDINANCE, IT DOESN'T WORK.
I JUST SAID THAT TO P COMMISSION MEMBER.
WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO DO IS TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WE, WE RIGHT NOW CONSENSUS YES.
MAJORITY, WHATEVER MAKES CONSENSUS ABOUT AMENDING.
BUT DID YOU SAY MR. SONIC, THIS LAND USE IT IS NOT ABOUT THE ITEM.
NO, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT ABOUT THIS.
IT, IT IS JUST THAT THIS JUST MAGNIFIES WHAT WE CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT.
WHICH IS PART, WE, WE KILLED TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STEP.
NEXT UP NUMBER THREE, MOVE IT ON TO THE PUBLIC HEARING NEXT.
UH, YES I WOULD, RIGHT? WE'RE YES.
SO WE'VE GOT TWO PUBLIC HEARINGS SO FAR, RIGHT? THE 23RD? YEP.
WE HAVE MORE THAN THAT, BUT YEAH, THESE TWO.
ALL RIGHT, SO NEXT UP IS ALSO MS. I NOTE THAT'S MR. PETTY MORNING TAG TEAM.
YOU CAN, IF YOU WANNA JUMP IN, I WAS, WAS JUST GONNA REMIND YOU OF ALL WHERE THIS IS.
UM, THERE'S SIX PARKING SPACES ON SITE.
SO OFF STREET PARKING, THREE OF THEM ARE HANDICAPPED.
AND THEN, UM, THE CALCULATION THAT WE'LL BE USING IS THE ONE PARKING SPACE PER EMPLOYEE.
UM, AND THEN WE HAVE TO FACTOR IN THE AUDITORIUMS AS NOTED.
SO THAT'S ONE PER FOUR FIXED SEATS OR ONE PER 100.
THE OLD COUNCIL CHAMBERS, I'M ASSUMING IT'S GOTTA BE RIGHT.
WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT TODAY WHAT WE WERE GONNA USE FOR THAT CALCULATION.
YEAH, I MEAN THAT'S WHERE THE, I MEAN IT USED TO BE FIRE, USED TO BE WHERE THE FIRE HALL WAS, BUT THEN IT WAS COUNCIL CHAMBERS THAT DETERMINE WHAT THAT MEANT.
UM, SO DO YOU WANT THE PROFIT? DO YOU, YEAH.
AS WE DISCUSSED AT THE LAST MEETING, SO WE HAD SOME MOLDER DATA FOR THE TRAFFIC COUNTS.
UH, WE HAD TO SEND, UH, PD WENT OUT, PUT THE RATE, UM, TRAFFIC COUNTER AND SPEED.
IT'S SO GOOD THAT IT WAS CAPTURING A LOT OF DATA FROM ROYAL AVENUE.
SO, UM, OUR NUMBERS WERE A LITTLE OFF.
HOWEVER, WE WERE STILL ABLE TO TAKE THAT DATA, COMPARE IT TO 2023.
WE ALSO PULLED V DOT'S, ANNUAL DAILY TRAFFIC FROM 2023.
TAKING ALL THOSE NUMBERS, WE COULD TELL WHAT I FEEL LIKE EVERYBODY PROBABLY ALREADY KNOWS THAT IT'S A BUSY STRETCH DURING 7:00 AM TO 9:00 AM AND THEN FROM 4:00 PM TO 6:00 PM IS IT FOUR TO SIX OR THREE TO FIVE.
NO, IT WAS FOUR TO SIX IN OUR COVER LETTER.
WELL THE AFTERNOON PEAK WAS MUCH LARGER THAN THE MORNING PEAK ANYWAYS.
LIKE IF YOU TOOK THE TOP FIVE TIMES, UH, FOUR OF 'EM WERE IN THAT EVENING.
IT WAS MUCH BUSIER IN THE EVENING THAN THE MORNING.
UM, WHAT WE DID NOTICE TOO IS THAT WHILE YES, PEOPLE WERE SPEEDING THROUGH THAT
[01:00:01]
SECTION, IT WASN'T, YOU KNOW, HIGH RATE OF SPEED.WHAT WE WERE SEEING, A LOT OF THOSE WERE 15 TO 20.
YES, THEY ARE SPEEDING, BUT I THINK A LOT OF 'EM ARE JUST PULLING OFF ROYAL AND JUST TAKING IT UP TO THE STOP SIGN AND, AND BE SELLING ALL THE WAY THROUGH.
UM, SO IT WASN'T 40 MILES AN HOUR, WE WEREN'T GETTING THOSE HIGH RATES.
IT'S LESS SPEEDING THAN WHAT'S IN OUR PUBLIC SCHOOL ZONE.
YEAH, I MEAN IT WAS OBVIOUSLY, I THINK WHEN YOU TRANSITION FROM A 25 TO A 15, ESPECIALLY THAT TURNING, LET'S NOT REALLY A TURN RATE.
IT'S YOU'RE JUST KINDA LIKE AN OFF RAMP.
UM, WE MET ON SITE, I MET ON SITE WITH PUBLIC WORKS TO JUST LOOK AT HOW THE ROAD IS LAID OUT AS WELL.
THE OTHER, 'CAUSE THE OTHER THINGS WE WERE LOOKING IS HOW DO WE MAKE PEDESTRIAN, UH, SAFETY A PRIORITY? THERE ARE TWO CROSSWALKS AT ONE POINT PUBLIC WORKS DID ADD A STRIKE TO THE ROAD AND A SIGN ABOUT PEDESTRIANS, YOU KNOW, AS A VISUAL CUE TO NARROW THE STREET.
SO WE'RE GONNA ALSO LOOK AT OTHER WAYS THAT WE CAN JUST MAKE SOME TRAFFIC MITIGATION IN THERE THROUGH SOME INFRASTRUCTURE.
WE LOOKED AT A POTENTIAL RAISED CROSSWALK ON THAT SECTION.
THERE ARE SOME LIMITATIONS NARROW, THERE'S PARKING LOTS.
THERE'S ALSO INFRASTRUCTURE SUCH AS MANHOLES IN THE ROAD THAT WE WOULD WORK AROUND TELEPHONE CALLS.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE AN, A APPLICABLE SOLUTION BECAUSE OF WHAT WE'RE WORKING WITH ON SITE, BUT WE ARE EXPLORING THAT BECAUSE WE ALSO HAVE A PUBLIC PARKING LOT THERE.
SO REGARDLESS OF THIS USE OR OTHER USES, WE WANT TO LOOK AT HOW, AND THERE'S JUST A LOT OF CHURCHES AND PARKING LOTS.
HOW DO, HOW DO PEDESTRIANS NAVIGATE? SO PUBLIC WORKS AND I LOOKED AT THAT AND A FUNERAL HOME AND A FUNERAL HOME, SAY TWO CHURCHES, A DAYCARE AND A FUNERAL HOME.
UM, AND THIS USE, OBVIOUSLY ITS PRIME TIME WOULD BE DURING THOSE PEAK TRAFFIC AS WELL.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS WE LOOKED AT IS THEY DID MEET THE CODE.
THEY, THEY SEEK TO LEASE FOR A, A OFFSITE PARKING.
UM, AND THEN THEY DID HAVE A THIRD OPTION FOR A DROP OFF IN THAT BACK PARKING LOT.
I THINK THAT'S NOT A STAFF RECOMMENDATION TO UTILIZE THAT.
YOU KNOW, ONE OR TWO, YOU CAN SEE HOW SMALL IT IS.
SO ONE OR TWO CARS COULD THEN QUEUE INTO UNION STREET AND WITH IT BEING BUSY DURING THE MORNING, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY SAFE TO BE DROPPING.
THERE'S A PUBLIC PARKING LOT THAT FOLKS COULD PARK IN AND DROP.
AND THEN THERE ARE OTHER PLACES WHERE THEY CAN PARK AND KIDS CAN THEN WALK.
BUT AS FAR AS USING THAT BACK PARKING LOT AS A DRIVE THROUGH, DROP OFF WITH, IT'S JUST REALLY NOT LARGE ENOUGH TO ACCOMMODATE.
AND THEN WITH THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC FLOW ABOUT, YOU KNOW, UM, DURING THOSE PEAK JUST MIGHT NOT BE THE MOST PREFERRED OPTION TO HAVE CARS TRYING TO COME IN AND OUT.
UM, IN THAT WHOLE PARKING LOT'S.
THE TOWN PARKING LOT, RIGHT? CORRECT.
BECAUSE THAT IS ALSO WHERE, UM, LITTLE ANGELS WITH FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH THEY DROP, THAT'S WHERE THEIR PARENTS DO THE DROP OFF AND PICK UP IN THERE.
SO THEY'RE USING THE PUBLIC PARKING LOT.
IT'S A PUBLIC PARKING LOT YOU CAN PARK IN IT.
SO IT IS, THAT ISN'T AVAILABLE.
THE BENEFIT OF THAT IS THAT DAYCARE, THEIR PARENTS HAVE TO LOCK THEM IN.
SO THERE'S NOT THAT, I THINK THAT MAKES THAT PARK SAFER.
THERE'S, WE NOTICE THAT THERE ARE NO SIGNS IN THE PARKING LOT THAT JUST LABEL IT AS PUBLIC PARKING.
SO WE WILL PROBABLY PUT SOME SIGNS THERE JUST TO SAY THAT THAT IS PUBLIC PARKING.
SHE, I HOPE THAT PEOPLE DON'T START PARKING THERE.
BECAUSE THERE'S AN APART, THERE'S A, UM, THERE'S APARTMENT.
WHEN THE OTHER LANE, IT'S SIMILAR TO HERE.
WE WOULD HAVE TO SIGN IT TO BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE OVERNIGHT COURSE.
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? 'CAUSE YOU WOULDN'T WANT, WELL WE HAVE START A PARKING LOT.
THE DAYCARE KEEPS THE TWO VANS AND I BELIEVE THE SCHOOL KEEPS TWO VANS ON THIS END THERE.
THE MAJORITY PARKING THOUGH, THAT THEIR SUGGESTIONS BEHIND ST.
THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE GONNA LEASE THEIR LEASE TO PROVIDE THEIR OFF STREET PARKING.
BUT THAT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE FOR THEIR STAFF.
I WOULD THINK THAT'S WHERE THEIR STAFF TO PARKING.
BUT I WOULD HOPE THAT THEY WOULD BE, THEY WOULD LEAVE STAFF TYPICALLY HAVE TO PARK THE FURTHEST.
YEAH, I WAS GONNA SAY THAT'S HOW IT IS FOR US.
YOU KNOW, UM, SO WE PULLED THE OLD SITE PLANS FOR ST.
THEY'VE GOT 91 SPACES, MAY NOT SEEM LIKE IT BANK HAVE 91 SPACES BETWEEN THEIR ACTUAL PROPERTY AND THEN THE PROPERTY THAT THEY OWN ACROSS THE STREET.
AND IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE WHAT, 300 FOOT AWAY FROM THE BUILDING FOR THE PARKING MM-HMM
WHEN THEY SUBMITTED A SURVEY, I THINK IT SHOULD STILL BE IN YOUR APPLICATION PACKET SHOWING THE DISTANCE TO THE LEASE PARKING SPACES.
[01:05:02]
BUT THEN WE ALSO WOULD RECOMMEND, UM, RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE 25 STUDENTS.IF YOU'RE GONNA DO A CONDITION, MAYBE CAP IT AT 35, MAYBE 40, GIVE THEM TO YOUR ROOM TO ROW AND THEN THAT WOULD FORCE THEM IF THEY WANNA GO BEYOND THAT TO COME BACK AND AMEND IT.
SO THAT WOULD GIVE US A CHANCE TO REEVALUATE THIS WORKING.
IS IT NOT? AND I THINK THAT THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN TWO, THREE YEARS.
WE CAN, BECAUSE IT CAP NUMBER STUDENT, BECAUSE IT'S P IS THERE, IS THERE A HEAD COUNT ON THE UH, THE BUILDING ITSELF? NO, NOT THAT I KNOW OF.
THERE'D BE SOMETHING WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, WHATEVER THAT USE IS.
SOMEBODY, I CAN ASSURE YOU THERE WERE MORE THAN 25 PEOPLE IN THERE WHEN IT WAS TOWN HALL.
COUNCILMAN, I MET ALSO WITH THE APPLICANT WHO WALKED THROUGH THE BUILDING FROM A BUSINESS MODEL STANDPOINT OF VIEW AND THEY AGREED YOU CAN'T MAKE IT WITH 25 STUDENTS.
NOT, NOT THE COST OF THE BUILDING AND THE RENOVATION.
AND I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE US CAPPING THEM ON THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE BY SERVICE.
MY MY ONE AND ONLY CONCERN IS THE SAFETY OF THE STUDENT WHO DROPPED OFF OR WHATEVER.
AND I MENTIONED TO THE APPLICANT, PERHAPS WE STARTED A NUMBER WITH A TWO YEAR REVIEW UNDER SUP AND THEN ALLOW 'EM TO GROW.
I MEAN THAT'S MY THOUGHTS ON IT.
BUT I, I WANT US, I'D LIKE TO SEE THE APPLICANT RE RESOLVE THE DROP OFF PICKUP ISSUE.
AND WE EVEN LOOKED ALONG NORTH ROYAL, A SECTION FROM FIRST STREET UNION STREET UP TO ALMOST A CURB CUT IN IS NOT PAINTED AT CURB.
YOU KNOW, YOU, WE COULD GO DOWN THERE AND PARK TOMORROW AND COULD THAT BE USED TO SAFELY, YOU KNOW, THE CHILDREN.
THAT'S WHAT I SAID, EXIT ONLY ON THE RIGHT SIDE PASSENGER SIDE.
LAST TIME WE DISCUSSED IT PUT SIGNS.
I THINK THERE'S A WAY TO WORK AROUND THIS.
WE HAVE 10 MINUTE, ONE HOUR, TWO HOUR PARKING SIGNS ALL OVER TOWN.
IT TAKES THE TOWN, YOU KNOW, GUYS LIKE A DAY TO GET ONE OF THOSE SIGNS MADE.
'CAUSE I'VE CALLED ABOUT ONE FOR PLACES BEFORE.
ONE THING THAT YOU SAY COUNCILMAN WOOD, WHICH IS IS RESONATING WITH ME, IS ABOUT LETTING THEM RESOLVE IT BECAUSE I LIKE, I MEAN, I'LL JUST SAY HAVING WORKED AT, AT FIRST I WORKED AT ALL K AND I WORKED UNTIL TODAY.
AND, AND SOMETIMES WHAT YOU THINK IS GONNA WORK, AND THEN IT STARTS HAPPENING AND YOU KNOW, OVER THE YEARS WE HAVE HALF OF OUR PARENTS ARE DROP OFF PICKUPS NOW.
THEY WEREN'T WHEN I FIRST STARTED THERE IN 98, BUT LFK, NOBODY WAS REALLY DROPPING OFF IN THE EARLY NINETIES.
BUT THEN IT STARTED BECOMING A THING, I THINK.
AND, AND LFK USED TO DO A THING WHERE THEY, LIKE THEY WERE GOING UP BEHIND.
BUT THERE WAS A TIME WHERE THEY WERE DOING LIKE THE BACK YEAH, LIKE BEHIND THE PARKING LOT.
THAT'S THE SCHOOL BUS DROP OFF.
BUT I'M JUST SAYING THOUGH, THERE WAS A TIME WHERE THEY DID THAT.
MY POINT IS, IS THAT MY POINT IS THAT THEY, THEY FIGURED IT OUT.
SO I THINK THAT'S A GOOD, I'M GETTING READY SAY, BECAUSE I WENT TO LFK MY ENTIRE SHOP AND THEN I GOT DROPPED OFF IN THE FRONT AND MY KID, MY OLDEST IS 14, WENT TO FK AND WE'VE ALWAYS DROPPED OFF IN THE FRONT.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WAS A TIME IN BETWEEN ME AND MY KIDS, BUT, AND ALSO IN THE FRONT, I LOOK AT TWO OTHER SITUATIONS HE WANTS TO MAR AND THEY BACK UP DOWN CHESTER STREET.
AND AS WELL, THE WAY YOU'RE RIGHT THOUGH, THEY'LL FIGURE, THEY'LL FIGURE OUT WHAT WORKS FOR THEM I'M SURE.
AND MY ONLY CONCERN IS CROSSING UNION STREET.
AND I THINK MY FAVORITE SOLUTION THAT WOULD BE SOME SORT OF RAISED CROSSWAY.
NOW WE WERE JUST PRIOR TO THIS, OUR GRANDSON HAD A GAME IN WINCHESTER OR JIM BARNETT PARK.
THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE SPEED TABLES LIKE WE HAVE ON PERFA, BUT THEY HAD A PAVED SPEED TABLE, WHICH IS LIKE A BROAD, I MEAN, YOU COULD GO OVER 15, 20 MILES AN HOUR.
YOU DID SLOW YOU DOWN, BUT IT'S NOT LIKE CLIMBING MOUNT EVER.
SO CAROLINA DON'T, I DON'T SEE THAT AS AN ISSUE.
UH, THESE KIDS ARE 13 YEARS OLD AT 17, BUT THEY CAN'T CROSS THE STREET, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S THEIR, IT'S MY OLDER ONES ON THEIR CELL PHONES THAT I WORRY ABOUT MORE.
WELL IT IS MIDDLE, MIDDLE SCHOOL SO HIGH.
I MEAN I WOULD SEE THIS WITH A CON.
I'M MORE WORRIED ABOUT REVIEW OR SOMETHING.
I'M MORE, I'M MORE WORRIED ABOUT THE CUT THROUGHS THROUGH THE PARKING LOT.
[01:10:01]
IF, IF THERE'S AN ISSUE AT ALL PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT TO GO TO THE STOP SIGN AND CUT THAT, THAT, THAT'S THROUGH THEWELL THAT, THAT, THAT WOULD BE MY ONLY CONCERN.
I THINK THE ONLY WAY WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA KNOW FOR SURE IS AFTER A WEEK OR SO OF SCHOOL BEING OPEN WITH HOW MANY STUDENTS THEY GOT AND THEN WE'LL KNOW WHAT THE ISSUE IS.
WELL, IF THEY, IF THEY OUTGROWTH, IF THEY OUTGROWTH THE SCHOOL THEY'RE MOVING.
SO THAT WOULD BE A GOOD PROBLEM.
BUT WHATEVER ISSUES WE HAVE TO BE A TIME LIMIT.
OR DO YOU WANT THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS RESTRICTED AND I SAY A TIME LIMIT TO NOT REACH A CONSENSUS ON THIS NOW.
YEAH, BUT BECAUSE WITHOUT, WITHOUT, BUT ARE YOU ASKING, I'M SORRY IF STAFF, BECAUSE STAFF'S GONNA BE THE ONE THAT'LL PUT IN HERE WHAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE.
BUT, BUT WE'VE ALL LEARNED WE CAN ADD AND REMOVE.
I DON'T WANNA TAKE AWAY THEIR FLEXIBILITY, BUT WHATEVER WE, WHATEVER OUR MOTION IS WHEN IT COMES TO IT, I, BECAUSE AGAIN, THEY'RE GONNA PIVOT AS SOON AS THEY, AS SOON AS SCHOOL STARTS, AS JOSH WERE SAYING, THEY'LL FIGURE OUT WHAT, WHAT ISN'T WORKING AND WE NEED TO, WE DON'T WANT 'EM COMING BACK TO COUNCIL.
COUNSEL CAN, YOU DON'T EVEN, YOU CAN READ A MOTION THAT'S NOT EVEN IN THE PACKET.
SO WE CAN READ WHATEVER MOTION WE THINK IS APPROPRIATE AFTER PUBLIC INPUT.
BUT I THINK, I THINK HAVING A TIMEFRAME, JUST LIKE WE DID WITH THAT HOTEL, THEN IT GIVES EVERYBODY A CHANCE TO COME BACK AND LOOK AT IT.
IF NOTHING'S A PROBLEM, THEN IT JUST KEEPS ON GOING ON.
AND, AND LIKE YOU SAID, WHO KNOWS, THEY MIGHT HAVE OUTGROWN THAT SPACE BY THEN.
THE TIMELINE FOR THE HOTEL DID NOT PASS.
DID THEY JUST HAVEN'T DONE THAT? THEY JUST, THERE'S, WE DID, WE DID IT TWO YEARS.
WAS IT TWO YEARS AFTER? WHICH ONE ARE WE REFERRING TO? THAT'S NOT THE ONE I'M REFERRING TO.
A TIME WHEN THEY CAME UP ON ANOTHER ONE AND IT DID NOT PASS BECAUSE OF APPRAISAL ISSUES.
YOU CANNOT SELL A PROPERTY BASED ON A TIME, A CONDITIONED TIME LIMIT.
SO THIS ONE IS GONNA BE A PUBLIC HEARING.
PUBLIC HEARING ON THE 20, ALSO ON THE 23RD, NOT THE 24TH.
ALRIGHT, SO THAT'S EVERYTHING.
UM, COUNSEL, YOU ALL, ALL GOT THIS? YEAH.
SO I PASSED OUT JUST, AND THAT WAS THE, OUR COUNCIL RETREAT.
AND WE'RE GONNA MAYBE NEXT WEEK LOOK AT SOME OF THE DATES AND STUFF AND JUST CIRCLE BACK AROUND.
UM, MR. LEY SENT EVERYBODY AN EMAIL AND THERE'S A HARD COPY, SO.