[00:00:02]
[Planning and Zoning Work Session on May 7, 2025.]
OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL WEDNESDAY, MAY THE SEVENTH, 6:00 PM WE'LL COME TO ORDER.MS. POTTER, CAN YOU CALL THE ROLE PLEASE? I CAN.
AND COMMISSIONER FEDERICA IS AL.
SO WE HAVE A, UH, WE HAVE A BIG, A BIG AGENDA, BUT WE WILL BEGIN WITH SOMEBODY ALSO NAMED FREDERICA.
WOULD YOU, WOULD YOU, SORRY TO DO THE INTRODUCTIONS.
SO MY, YOUR NAME'S KATIE FEDERICA.
AND, UM, YOU, THIS IS IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE DESIGNATED SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES HOUSING PROJECT.
I'M WORKING ON THE SIDE WITH THE VARIOUS GROUPS WE'VE BEEN GETTING INTERVIEWS FROM FOR, OR VISITING IN THIS CASE TOMORROW BEING THE PROJECT PHOENIX, WHERE WE'LL SEE SHE'S TAKING THIS FROM THE, UM, UH, THE IMPACT, THE USER'S POINT OF VIEW, I GUESS IS ONE WAY OF PUTTING IT.
AND SHE BRINGS THAT, THAT EXPERTISE OF HOW SHE'S HAD TO DEAL WITH THE SYSTEMS AND, AND, AND THOSE SORTS ARE, AND HOW INFERRED INTO THE HOUSING OF THAT WOULD IMPACT.
SO IT SAYS, UH, UH, PERSPECTIVE FROM THE EXPERIENCE OF DOWN SYNDROME, AUTISM SPECTRUM, CEREBRAL PALSY, AND I UNDERSTAND OTHER THINGS.
BUT, UH, ANYWAY, AND WE SENT OUT A, A QUESTIONNAIRE, JUST KIND OF A GUIDE TO GET STARTED.
IT WASN'T NECESSARILY, YOU KNOW, PLEASE ANSWER EACH QUESTION BY, BY THE LETTER AND THAT, SO, UM, JUST IF YOU WANNA START GIVING A LITTLE BIT OF YOUR BACKGROUND OF WHAT I, I APPRECIATE IT.
JUST BEARING IN MIND THAT THIS BODY IS CONCERNED WITH LAND USE ISSUES.
SO THOSE ARE THE MAIN OTHER REGULATIONS, NOT
AND, UH, THAT'S THE MAIN THING WE WOULD CONCERN.
IT'S MAIN THING, BUT INEVITABLY THERE'S OVERLAP AND THERE'LL BE SOME DETAIL THAT ISN'T DIRECTLY, BUT COULD, COULDN'T BE IMPACTFUL.
YOU'LL HAVE TO, WE'LL CLARIFY THAT FOR ME A LITTLE BIT, BUT IF YOU GET OFF TRACK, WE'LL, OKAY.
I AM A BOARD CERTIFIED MUSIC THERAPIST, AND I HAVE BEEN, SO FOR 12 YEARS, I WORK WITH INDIVIDUALS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES AND PHYSICAL DISABILITIES.
AND I HAVE WORKED IN A RESIDENTIAL SETTING AS BOTH A DIRECT CARE WORKER EARLY ON.
AND THEN I HAVE WORKED, UM, IN A BIG FACILITY IN PENNSYLVANIA CALLED NUMARK, THAT IS A RESIDENTIAL FACILITY FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES AND PHYSICAL HANDICAPS, TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY AS WELL.
AND YEAH, I, SO HOPEFULLY I CAN OFFER YOU OKAY.
SOME INSIGHT, BUT I'M, YOU'LL HAVE TO ASK ME KIND OF OKAY.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? NO, THAT'S FINE.
NO, JUST USE THIS QUESTIONNAIRE AS THE GUIDE THAT WE CAN, AND SURE.
WHEN YOU'RE TURNING, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE INDIVIDUALS IN, IN A HOUSING SITUATION, WE'RE LOOKING AT EXPANDING THE CODE OF WHERE THESE SORTS OF, UM, FACILITIES CAN BE LOCATED IN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS WHERE IT IS APPROPRIATE.
SO WE'RE LOOKING FOR WHAT KIND OF OBSTACLES THAT ARE BEING RUN INTO AND WHAT IS ISN'T APPROPRIATE, SUCH AS, UM, EMERGENCY HOUSING AND LET'S SAY COUNSELING, CHILDCARE, OTHER, OTHER CONSIDERATIONS THAT YOU RUN ACROSS.
SO I WOULD SAY WHAT I'VE WORKED WITH SPECIFICALLY IS GROUP HOMES.
AND THAT WOULD BE MORE LONG TERM.
YOU COULD, YOU COULD POTENTIALLY GET INTO SOMETHING LIKE EMERGENCY HOUSING FOR CRISIS.
UM, WHAT I'M SEEING IS THAT A NEED FOR ADULTS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES TO HAVE HOUSING.
AND I THINK THAT YOU WOULD DO THAT, UH, IN, IN ORDER TO DO THAT.
YOU COULD DO IT IN A RE RESIDENTIAL, UM, LIKE SETTING.
I'VE SEEN THAT LIKE IN LIKE ON A STREET WITH WHERE OTHER PEOPLE ARE LIVING.
UM, YOU WOULD NEED CERTAIN THINGS FOR SURE.
LIKE YOU WOULD NEED LIKE A HANDICAP RAMP.
YOU WOULD NEED, UM, YOU WOULD NEED PROBABLY A DIRECT CARE AGENCY TO BE WORKING WITH YOU OR SOME SORT OF OTHER AGENCY THAT SPECIALIZES IN WORKING WITH PEOPLE WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, DEPENDING ON THE SEVERITY, BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE INDIVIDUALS WHO DON'T HAVE AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIORS.
AND THEN YOU DO HAVE SOME THAT WOULD HAVE MORE AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIORS WHERE YOU MIGHT NOT WANT TO HOUSE INDIVIDUALS WITH MORE AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIORS IN A RESIDENTIAL, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD.
I WAS HAVE YOU WORKED IN FACILITIES OR DO YOU KNOW INTIMATELY FACILITIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY HOUSES, HOMES, LIKE IN RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS? I HAVE, I'VE NOT WORKED SPECIFICALLY THAT.
I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN IN PHILADELPHIA.
UM, ACTUALLY, MY HUSBAND LIVED NEXT DOOR TO, UH, A HOME FOR A GROUP, HOME FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES.
I BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE ON THE AUTISM SPECTRUM, AND THEY, THEY'RE PRETTY SEVERE.
SO, UM, I MEAN, AND THERE'S, THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS YOU WOULD ALSO NEED FOR THAT.
LIKE, I KNOW IT SAYS HERE SOMEWHERE, ALARM SYSTEMS. MM-HMM
YOU DEFINITELY WANT SOMETHING LIKE
[00:05:01]
THAT FOR ANYONE WHO'S TRYING TO LIKE ELOPE.THAT'S, THAT'S THE KIND OF REGULATION THAT WE WOULDN'T GET INTO.
HOUSING, IT'S A CONSIDERATION, BUT NOT NECESSARILY A LAND USE REGULATION.
AND SO THAT'S WHY I SAY THIS, THE KIND OF OVERLAPPING, UM, GOING, GOING, UM, SO YOU MENTIONED IT WAS LONG TERM IS WHAT YOU, YOU'VE DEALT WITH, AND THIS, THIS, THERE'S WE'RE COMING TO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF PEOPLE.
AND THAT'S A, A HUGE SPECTRUM.
LITERALLY, THEY, THAT SPECTRUM TERM WERE THOSE PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE TRANSITIONING INTO SOCIETY, BE ABLE TO FUNCTION, AND THOSE WHO NEVER WOULD BE FUNCTIONING.
AND THEN THOSE IN THE MIDDLE WHO CAN FUNCTION, BUT UNDER SUPERVISION AND, AND AND, AND ON AND ON.
AND SO ALL ADDRESSING ALL OF THOSE, AND THERE'S MAYBE SOME UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE.
WERE IN A RESIDENTIAL CIRCUMSTANCE, IT MIGHT WORK.
IN OTHER CASES IT MIGHT NOT WORK.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.
AND UH, THERE, THERE'S ALSO OTHER THINGS LIKE THE, UM, UH, CATEGORIES WHERE WE HAVE, WHERE THERE'S, UM, SOME SORT OF FAMILY SITUATION, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY'VE BEEN IN CRISIS FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER.
I HAVEN'T SEEN IT VERY OFTEN, BUT I THINK THAT'S A, AND THOSE, THOSE, A LOT OF THOSE, AT LEAST TO ME, MAKE REAL GOOD SENSE IN A RESIDENTIAL SITUATION AS OPPOSED TO MORE INDUSTRIAL.
BUT YES, AS WE GET ON ANYWAY, I DON'T WANT TO.
UM, AND YOU MENTIONED THE TIMEFRAME, MOST OF WHAT YOU'VE DEALT WITH HAS BEEN, IS THE LONG TERM TERM.
AND, UM, REALLY NOT A TON, UH, TRANSITIONING INTO SOCIETY, BUT I THINK THERE'S A NEED FOR THAT, A GREAT NEED FOR THAT ON THOSE WHO, FOR THOSE WHO ARE SORT OF DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED, BUT VERY HIGH FUNCTIONING MM-HMM
FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM, WE DON'T REALLY USE HIGH FUNCTIONING.
I I KNOW IT'S HARD NOT TO TRIP OVER TERMS. YEAH, EXACTLY.
SO, UM, I THINK FOR ALL THREE OF YOU, YOU MENTIONED THREE DIFFERENT, SO MORE SEVERE, UM, DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITY, WHO WOULD NEED CARETAKING 24 7 AND MAYBE WOULD HAVE MORE AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIORS? I, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD PUT THAT IN A RESIDENTIAL SETTING, BUT I WOULD FOR SURE HAVE INDIVIDUALS MAYBE WITH DOWN SYNDROME WHO NEED CARE, BUT WANNA BE MORE INDEPENDENT, BUT CAN'T LIVE, UM, BY THEMSELVES.
AND SO HOW TO QUANTIFY THAT IN, IN, IF YOU WERE TO WRITE THAT OUT AND WHAT, AND WOULD, WOULD, AND WOULDN'T BE ACCEPTABLE THAT, THAT'S A CHALLENGE FOR US TO WHAT? WELL, LIKE, LIKE FOR INSTANCE, DO YOU MEAN LIKE, WOULD THEY NEED TO BE IN A, UH, SETTING IN WHICH THERE WAS A RESIDENT COUPLE IN CHARGE SO THAT THEY WOULDN'T BE HAVING JUST A GROUP OF HIGH FUNCTIONING DISABLED PEOPLE YOU WOULD ABSOLUTELY NEED THAT ABSOLUTELY.
SOMEBODY EMPLOYED TO BE THERE AND HIGHLY TRAINED.
EVEN IF IT'S, EVEN IF IT'S, UM, MAYBE SOMEBODY WHO IS VERY HIGH FUNCTIONING AND LOOKING TO TRANSITION INTO SOCIETY.
I WOULD SAY FOR SAFETY, YOU WOULD NEED EITHER AN AGENCY, A DIRECT CARE AGENCY TO BE ON SITE, WHICH WOULD BE PEOPLE ROTATING IN AND OUT, OR YOU WOULD NEED, I LIKE THE IDEA OF A COUPLE TOO.
THAT'S WHAT THEY DO IN THE LARGE COMMUNITIES.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, UM, A ZONING ORDINANCE, WHICH SAID THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF UNRELATED PEOPLE WHO CAN LIVE IN A HOUSE, UH, IS LIMITED TO FIVE.
WOULD NOT WORK FOR YOU BECAUSE FIVE WOULD BE A GREAT NUMBER FIVE OF YOUR INMATE, NOT INMATES, BUT OF YOUR PATIENTS.
PLUS YOU COULD SAY CLIENTS, CLIENTS
SO THAT WOULD, IF YOU SAY, IF THE, IF THE ZONING ORDERS SENT FIVE MAX, YOU COULD ONLY HAVE FOUR PATIENTS.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE, IS THAT AN OPTIMUM SIZE GROUP? I MEAN, HOW BIG IS AN OPTIMUM SIZE GROUP? WELL, I WOULD SAY NO MORE THAN SIX, NO MORE THAN SIX PER HOUSEHOLD.
BUT WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A, A RESIDENTIAL COUPLE, YOU, I MEAN, THAT WOULD PROBABLY CHANGE.
LIKE, IF YOU WERE TO HAVE AN OVERNIGHT SHIFT, YOU COULD HAVE ONE PERSON STAY OVERNIGHT.
ALTHOUGH WITH FOUR DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS, IT WOULD BE BEST TO HAVE TWO, I THINK.
SO A RESIDENTIAL COUPLE WOULD BE
AND DEPENDING ON THE NEEDS, YOU WOULD NEED MORE HELP AND MORE PEOPLE SPECIALIZING IN DIFFERENT THINGS.
LIKE IF YOU HAD SOMEBODY WITH CEREBRAL PALSY WHO IS IN A WHEELCHAIR, THEY'RE GONNA NEED SOMEONE WHO'S ABLE TO LIFT THEM, USE MACHINERY TO GET THEM TO THE BATHROOM, YOU KNOW, ALL THAT, THAT SORT OF THING.
SO YOU'RE GONNA NEED SOMEBODY SPECIALIZING IN THAT.
SO THAT GETS BACK TO THAT, THE TYPE OF HOUSE AND SO ON.
IT, IT, NOW IF, CAN IT BE SUITED, UM, REFITTED OR FITTED TO MEET THOSE NEEDS? YES.
WHICH ARE RANCH STYLE WOULD PROBABLY BE BEST.
PROBABLY, PROBABLY MULTI-STORY WITH NOTHING, BUT STAIRS PROBABLY WON'T BE BEST.
[00:10:01]
HAVE YOU EVER ENCOUNTERED A SITUATION WHERE THE ZONING, RE REGULATIONS WERE A PROBLEM THAT PREVENTED AN AGENCY FROM DOING WHAT IT WANTED TO DO? I'VE NOT PERSONALLY, NO.I CAN'T REALLY SPEAK TO THAT, SO.
SOME OF THE SERVICES, WE JUST WERE TALKING ABOUT SIZE, STYLE, AND SQUARE FOOTAGE A A LITTLE BIT WITH THE MAXIMUM CAPACITIES.
BUT WHAT, WHAT TYPE OF FINANCIAL, UM, HURDLES HAVE YOU RUN INTO FOR, UM, HAVING TO DO WITH HOUSING OR FACILITIES? WELL, I MEAN, EQUIPMENT IS VERY EXPENSIVE EQUIPMENT TO SUIT THE FACILITIES.
ALSO, YOU WOULD NEED TO BE PAYING THE PEOPLE, OBVIOUSLY YEAH.
BUT SOMETIMES YOU CAN DO THAT, I BELIEVE, THROUGH AN AGENCY OUTSIDE OF, UM, THE GROUP HOME.
BUT HAVE, HAVE THEY RUN INTO CASES WHERE THEY NEEDED A GROUP HOME AND IT JUST WASN'T AVAILABLE? OH, I'M SURE.
I, I DON'T, I CAN'T THINK OF A SPECIFIC EXAMPLE, BUT I'M SURE THAT'S HAPPENED.
I THINK THERE'S A GREAT NEED FOR IT IN THIS TOWN.
'CAUSE I WORKED WITH, UH, I WORK WITH A LOT OF ADULTS WHO ARE KIND OF IN THIS STAGE WHERE THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE MORE INDEPENDENT AND THEIR FAMILIES MAYBE, MAYBE THEIR PARENTS ARE A LOT OLDER AND THEY NEED A PLACE FOR THEIR CHILDREN TO STAY.
AND THERE'S, THERE'S NOT A LOT AVAILABLE.
SO WHAT WOULD BE YOUR, IF YOU COULD WAVE YOUR MAGIC WAND AND DESIGN SOMETHING, WHAT WOULD YOU DESIGN? UM, I DO FIND THAT IF YOU HAVE THESE INDIVIDUALS IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD, IT'S ACTUALLY VERY BENEFICIAL.
PEOPLE WITH INDIVIDUAL, WITH, UM, PEOPLE WITH INTELLECTUAL DISABILITIES AND DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES IN ORDER COMMUNITY WITH ONE ANOTHER AND WITH THE OUTSIDE WORLD, OBVIOUSLY IS REALLY, REALLY HIGHLY BENEFICIAL.
AND WE'VE ACTUALLY DONE RESEARCH STUDIES ON THIS, SO HAVING THEM IN A SIMILAR LOCATION ON THE SAME STREET, YOU COULD BE BUILDING A COMMUNITY WHERE THEY'RE, THEY'RE THRIVING.
THEY THRIVE MORE IN COMMUNITY WITH ONE ANOTHER BECAUSE I, I DON'T KNOW, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, THEY, THEY FEEL MORE LIKE THEY'RE ACCEPTED OR LIKE THEY'RE PART OF A GROUP, YOU KNOW? AND THAT ACTUALLY DOES REALLY HELP THEM THRIVE.
SO IF YOU, IF YOU COULD HAVE GROUP HOMES IN THE SAME LOCATION AND HAVE THEM SORT OF CREATING COMMUNITY TOGETHER, I THINK THAT WOULD BE REALLY GREAT.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.
SO, SO JUST TO MAKE CLEAR, SO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR ON WHAT I'M SAYING.
THE, THE OPTIMUM IS INDIVIDUAL HOUSES IN PROXIMITY TO EACH OTHER, LIKE ON THE COURT.
JUST DIFFERENT HOUSES WHERE THEY WOULD BE, THEY WOULD LIVE AND THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO GO BACK AND FORTH.
THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO GET TOGETHER AND HAVE FRIENDSHIPS.
THEY REALLY NEED FRIENDSHIPS WITH.
I MEAN, I, I'M SPEAKING GENERALLY, BUT IN MY EXPERIENCE, LIKE INDIVIDUALS WITH DOWN SYNDROME NEED OTHER PEOPLE WITH DOWN SYNDROME TO HAVE FRIENDSHIPS WITH.
THEY NEED THAT FEELING OF BELONGING OR ELSE THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION THAT, THAT WAS HELPFUL.
SO IN OTHER WORDS, JUST ONE HOUSE BY ITSELF, ALLOWING ONE HOUSE BY ITSELF ISN'T REALLY THE OPTIMUM ALLOWING FOR, FOR CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.
IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT CATEGORY WE'RE TALKING.
UH, ORGANIZATIONS, WHAT KIND OF ORGANIZATIONS HAVE YOU HAD TO WORK WITH? SO, UM, DIRECT CARE AGENCIES, I, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ANY IN VIRGINIA, BUT IN PENNSYLVANIA, WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE, I WORKED WITH THE DIRECT CARE AGENCIES QUESTIONS? WELL, IT JUST, THE AGENCIES, IT, IT COMES INTO, IF THEY'RE GOING TO REGULATE THE FACILITY, THEN THEY'LL HAVE THEIR OWN REGULATION OF WHAT FACILITIES ARE ACCEPTABLE, AND THAT'S WHERE THE LAND USE COMES.
I'M ASSUMING THAT EVERY ONE OF THESE FACILITIES HAS SOME KIND OF AGENCY REGULATION.
AND SOME OF THEM ARE JUST COMPLETELY OWNED BY YEAH.
WELL, WE FOUND, WE FOUND SOMETIMES ORGANIZATIONS OWN IT AND THEY'LL, THEY'LL ABIDE BY THE REGULATIONS, BUT NOT NECESSARILY BE REGULATED BY, SO IT, IT'S, IT'S NOT, AT LEAST WHEN I'VE RESEARCHED, IT'S NOT COMPLETE BE DONE THAT WAY.
AND IF YOU HAD A DIRECT CARE AGENCY WORKING IN THESE SITUATIONS, IT, IT, THE CIRCUMSTANCES, I MEAN, I HAVE HAD, I DON'T KNOW IF EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, IF THIS APPLIES TO THAT, BUT I HAVE HAD ISSUES WHERE THERE IS NOT, UM, A WHEELCHAIR ROOM.
AND SO PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ACCESS TO CERTAIN AREAS, WHO SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO CERTAIN AREAS JUST CAN'T DO IT.
THAT'S WHAT I, I, I, BUT I DON'T THINK, THINK SPECIFICALLY, IT WOULDN'T AFFECT YOUR, YOUR SHELTER OR YOURSELF.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MEGAN OR DAVID? GUYS?
[00:15:01]
JUST SOMETHING, JUST SOMETHING QUICKER.JUST, I'LL JUST ASK THE LAST ONE OUT HERE.
THE OBSTACLES SUCCESS YOU WOULD SEE THE TOWN, UM, TO ADDRESS WHAT OBSTACLES FOR MAKING THIS SUCCESSFUL, WOULD YOU SEE? WHAT OBSTACLES? UM, YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE IN NEIGHBORHOODS AGREEING TO IT.
UH, SO IT WOULD HAVE TO BE, AS, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD HAVE TO TALK TO THE PEOPLE OF THE RE THE RESIDENTIAL AREA.
UM, TRYING TO THINK WHAT ELSE.
I'M NOT, I DON'T THINK I'M AS WELL VERSED IN THE ZONING AS, NO, NO.
THIS, WE DIDN'T EXPECT YOU YEAH.
WAS THIS, THIS IS THERESA SUGGESTED THIS SINCE YOU ACTUALLY HAD DEALT WITH IT FROM A PERSONAL YES.
SO YOU, YOU'LL BRING A PERSPECTIVE.
UH, NOT NECESSARILY THE LETTER OF THE LAW.
I'M GLAD THAT YOU'RE NOT EXPECTING THAT.
AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT YOUR PERSPECTIVE IS THAT, UH, RESIDENTIAL AREAS, LIKE WHAT I, WHAT YOU WOULD THINK OF AS SUBURBAN RESIDENTIAL AREAS MM-HMM
ARE PREFERABLE TO LIKE DOWNTOWN LOCATIONS? I THINK SO, YEAH.
JUST BECAUSE IF YOU'RE IN A DOWNTOWN LOCATION AND YOU HAVE SOMEBODY ELOPING INTO THE TOWN ITSELF, THAT WOULD CAUSE A LOT OF CHAOS AND MAYBE UNNECESSARY DRAMA.
AND YOU MIGHT HAVE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT HAVE SOMEBODY WHO, UM, INDIVIDUALS WITH DOWN SYNDROME ARE MORE PRONE TO DEMENTIA.
YOU MIGHT HAVE SOMEBODY IN THAT WHO'S TRYING TO GET, GET AWAY, YOU KNOW? SO ARE THERE MORE IF WE'RE LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTIAL VERSUS, LIKE YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, LIKE A MORE INDUSTRIAL COMMERCIAL, AND THEN THERE ARE SOME, UH, SPECIAL NEEDS THAT ARE MORE SO WELL SUITED FOR ONE OR THE OTHER.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD YOU THINK IS A, UH, A SITUATION WHERE IT'D BE BETTER SUITED FOR INDUSTRIAL COMMERCIAL? SURE.
SO I THINK INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE MORE SEVERE IN TERMS OF AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIORS WOULD DO BETTER IN AN INDUSTRIAL SETTING.
TYPICALLY, THEY HAVE, UH, LESS OF AN ABILITY TO FORM COMMUNITY ANYWAYS.
SO THAT WOULDN'T BE AS MUCH OF A PRIORITY FOR SOMEBODY.
SO THERE'S THREE LEVELS TO AUTISM SPECTRUM DISORDER.
THREE IS CONSIDERED THE MOST SEVERE.
SO, UH, INDIVIDUALS ON LIKE LEVEL THREE OF AUTISM SPECTRUM DISORDER MAYBE.
WE JUST IN SOME INDIVIDUALS DO HAVE AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIORS WHO ARE JUST IN INTELLECTUALLY DISABLED.
RUN THROUGH THE GAMUT, UNLESS YOU LIKE CLOSED WITH ANYTHING.
WELL, NO,
UH, SO SPECIAL USE PERMITS SHALL DEMONSTRATE THE APPROPRIATENESS OF ESTABLISHING THE SPECIAL USE ON THE SPECIFIC PROPERTY, TYPICAL STANDARDS.
UH, SO YOU SHOULD CONSIDER THE IMPACT OF THE SPECIAL USE ON THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT, THE IMPACT OF THE SPECIAL USE ON THE WELFARE OF THE LANDOWNERS AND OCCUPANTS OF THE LAND IN THE DISTRICT, AND WHETHER IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
OTHER FACTORS SHOULD BE THE CHARACTER OF THE PROPERTY, THE GENERAL WELFARE OF THE PUBLIC AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMUNITY.
UH, SO THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW, WHETHER GRANTED BY THE GOVERNING BODY OR THE BZA STATE CODE DOES ALLOW SPECIAL USE PERMITS BE GRANTED BY THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS IN SOME LOCALITIES.
UH, THEY'RE LEGISLATIVE IN NATURE.
UH, THEY ARE CONSIDERED TO HAVE A POTENTIAL GREATER IMPACT THAN THOSE ALLOWED BY MATTER OF, RIGHT? SO YOU HAVE A SPECIAL USE.
SO THE THEORY IS THAT IT IMPACTS THE AREA, HAS A POTENTIAL FOR GREATER IMPACT.
UH, THEY MUST BE EVALUATED UNDER REASONABLE STANDARDS, AND THEY HAVE TO BE BASED ON ZONING PRINCIPLES.
I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE CONFUSING CONFUSION THERE.
IT WAS BROUGHT UP ABOUT, UH, DO YOU REGULATE THE NUMBER OF OCCUPANCY? LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR, FOR EXAMPLE, JUST USE FOR A RESTAURANT THAT IS NOT ZONING PRINCIPLES.
OKAY? SO YOU HAVE TO DETERMINE, IT'S BASED ON ZONING PRINCIPLES.
THAT'S WHERE WE CAN REGULATE HEIGHT, SETBACK, UH, PERCENT OF THE BUILDING ON THE LOT PARKING STANDARDS AND SUCH, UH, IMPACTS OR SPECIAL USES ARE ADDRESSED THROUGH CONDITIONS.
SO THAT'S WHERE YOU WOULD PLACE CONDITIONS ON THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
AND THEY HAVE TO BE REASONABLE RELATED TO THE IMPACT TO BE ADDRESSED.
UH, AND THE EXTENT OF THE CONDITIONS MUST BE ROUGHLY PROPORTIONAL TO THE IMPACT.
UH, BUT SPECIAL USE PERMITS CAN BE APPEALED TO THE CIRCUIT COURT.
SO KIND OF LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, IF SOMEONE COMES WITH A SPECIAL USE
[00:20:01]
PERMIT, UH, WHEN MAYBE THEY NEED SIDEWALK FOR ACCESSIBILITY, UH, PROBABLY WE'LL JUST SAY IN THEORY, REQUIRING THEM TO PUT A CONDITION TO EXTEND THE SIDEWALK, ANOTHER 2000 FEET TO THE OTHER AREA OF TOWN WOULD NOT BE REASONABLE.OKAY? SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE IMPACT OF THAT PROPERTY.
UH, SO WHEN THE LOCALITY IMPOSES SPECIAL CONDITIONS OF SPECIAL USE PERMIT, IT MUST BE CERTAIN THAT THE CONDITIONS HAVE AN ESSENTIAL NEXUS THAT IS RELATED TO THE IMPACT OF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT AND IS ROUGHLY PROPORTIONAL.
SO THAT'S WHERE YOU CANNOT OR SHOULD NOT PUT CONDITIONS WHERE IT'S, IT'S NOT PROPORTIONAL TO, UH, THE PROPERTY.
SO THE ESSENTIAL NEXUS OR THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PRIVATE PROPERTIES ACTIVITY AND THE BURDEN PLACED ON THE COMMUNITY AS A RESULT, THE FEE OF THE REQUIREMENT PLACED ON A PRIVATE PROPERTY IS ROUGHLY PROPORTIONAL.
SO THAT'S WHERE, WHAT WE TALK ABOUT THE SIDEWALK, YOU PROBABLY SHOULD NOT CONSIDER PUTTING THE CONDITION, THE EXTENDED SIDEWALK, FOR EXAMPLE, A THOUSAND OR 2000 FEET, UH, TO SERVE ANOTHER PROPERTY WHEN THE PROPERTY ITSELF IS MAYBE ONLY A HUNDRED FOOT WIDE, FOR EXAMPLE.
SO THAT'S WHERE YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS, UH, REMEMBER THIS RELATIONSHIP FOR THESE SPECIAL USE PERMITS.
AND THEY HAVE TO BE ZONING PRINCIPLES, UH, YOU KNOW, OCCUPANCY, UH, THE FIRE CODE, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT ARE, THAT IS UNDER DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT.
THAT IS NOT PART OF ZONING PRINCIPLES.
UH, SO WHERE YOU'RE REGULATING WANTING SOMEONE TO, UH, PUT, WE'LL SAY, UH, A SPRINKLER SYSTEM IN THE BUILDING THAT IS NOT UNDER YOUR PURVIEW AS A PLANNING COMMISSION.
'CAUSE THAT'S NOT ZONING PRINCIPLES.
WHEN THEY DO THE CHANGE OF USE, FOR EXAMPLE, AN EXISTING BUILDING, THAT'S WHERE THE BUILDING CODE WOULD GO IN EFFECT, WHERE THEY BELIEVE IT'S A CHANGE OF USE OF THE BUILDING CODE TO ENFORCE BUILDING CODE PRINCIPLES, NOT ZONING PRINCIPLES.
SO JUST ONE OF, WE HAVE SEVERAL OF THESE, SO, UH, YOU HAVE QUESTIONS.
I JUST WANNA HIGHLIGHT SOME THINGS THAT, UH, DURING DISCUSSION, IF YOU ASK THE APPLICANT, IT SHOULD BE BASED ON ZONING PRINCIPLES.
SO OUR FIRST ONE UP FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS FOR A FARMER'S MARKET.
UH, THAT'S FOR, UH, SUBMITTED BY JULIE BOTT ON BEHALF OF HAPPY CREEK ANTIQUES.
THAT'S AT 5 1 5 B NORTH COMMERCE AVENUE.
THAT IS IN THE C ONE COMMUNITY BUSINESS DISTRICT.
UH, THERE'S THE AERIAL VIEW OF THE PROPERTY, IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT.
THERE'S THE MAIN BUILDING AT 5 1 5.
UH, IT'S OUTLINED IN BLUE THERE WITH THE PARKING LOT.
THEY DO HAVE A POLE BUILDING SITE HERE, AND, UH, ANOTHER BUILDING THERE OFF EAST SIXTH STREET.
SO THEY DO RUN THE ANTIQUE OR HAPPY CREEK ANTIQUE OUT OF 5, 1 5.
I THINK THAT FORMERLY WAS A HARDWARE STORE, RETAIL AND SOME OTHER THINGS THERE IN THE PAST.
SO THERE'S, UH, OUR PUBLIC HEARING SIGN, HAPPY CREEK ANTIQUES, IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT BUILDING.
UH, A VIEW OF THE PARKING LOT, THERE IS THE BUILDING IN THE REAR OF THE POLE BARN, THE PARKING AREA.
DURING, UH, IN PART OF YOUR APPLICATION, YOU CAN SEE THEY WANT TO DO, UH, RAISE BEDS IN THAT AREA FOR THE FARMER'S MARKET.
UH, THERE'S ANOTHER VIEW OF THE PROPERTY IN THE PARKING LOT AND A VIEW FROM THE POLE BUILDING OUT TOWARD COMMERCE WITH TIER, THE PRIMARY USE OF THE BUILDING HERE.
UH, SO UNDER 1 75, 39 B IN THE C ONE, UH, SPECIAL USE PERMITS CAN BE GRANTED FOR FARMERS MARKET AND FLEA MARKETS.
SO THAT'S THE REASON THEY'RE ASKING FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
IT CAN BE GRANTED BY A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN THE C ONE DISTRICT.
UH, SO WHAT IS A FARMER'S MARKET? WELL, THAT'S A COLLECTION OF TWO OR MORE VENDORS SELLING FARM OR DOMESTIC PRODUCTS, GARDEN PRODUCE OR NURSERY PRODUCTS, ORNAMENTAL OR OTHERWISE, WHICH HAVE BEEN GROWN OR PRODUCED BY THE VENDOR.
OFFERING THE SAME FOR SALE IN AN OPEN AIR SETTING.
UH, UNDER OUR CODE UNDER 1 7 5 3.
UH, SO THAT'S AN UMBRELLA TERM THAT DESCRIBES A RANGE OF FOOD GROWING PRACTICES CONDUCTED AS AN ACCESSORY USE THAT MAY INCLUDE THE RAISING OF CROPS, HORTICULTURE, UH, AGRICULTURE, AND RIGHT, UH, AQUACULTURE, FORESTRY AND GARDENING.
SO ESSENTIALLY FOR THEIR APPLICATION, THEY ARE ASKING TO DO RAISED BEDS IN THE, UH, PARKING LOT UNDER THEIR FIRST PHASE.
THEN EXPAND THAT GARDEN, UH, OVER THE NEXT YEAR AND A HALF, UH, TO, ACCORDING TO THEIR APPLICATION TO DO ROSE BEDS, UH, TO GROW FOOD PRACTICES AND OFFER THEM FOR SALE.
SO, UH, THE WAY WE LOOKED AT IT, THAT UNDER THE URBAN AG,
[00:25:01]
UH, YOU COULD DO THAT AS AN ACCESSORY USE FOR THE GROWING OTHER PRODUCTS.UH, BUT FOR THE FARMER'S MARKET, THEY NEED TO HAVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO OFFER THAT FOR SALE, UH, OR OTHERWISE HOW THEY'RE GOING TO DO THE, THE PRODUCE.
SO THAT'S WHAT THE APPLICATION IS FOR.
THEY PUT THE APPLICATION THERE.
THEY DID THE DIAGRAM HERE, UH, THAT THERE'S WANTING TO DO RAISED BEDS HERE IN THE CENTER.
WAS THE POLE BUILDING IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, DO RAISED BED IN THIS PARKING AREA, ONE HERE AGAINST THE BUILDING.
MY UNDERSTANDING, THEY POTENTIALLY WENT DO LIKE A GREENHOUSE.
SOME THINGS GROWN IN THE GREENHOUSE IN THE BUILDING, UH, BE ON LIKE, UH, SOME TYPE OF CARTS THAT THEY CAN WHEEL IN AND OUT FOR GROWING.
THEN HERE TO REAR THE LOT, ACTUALLY DO A, SOME TYPE OF GARDEN THING HERE IN THE BACK.
SO AREAS ONE AND TWO WOULD BE RAISED BEDS.
AND THEN IN 2026, UH, THEY ANTICIPATE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING HERE IN THE REAR OF THE LOT.
UM, BUT IT DOES REQUIRE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A FARMER'S MARKET TO OFFER THESE PRODUCTS FOR SALE.
THEY HAVE TO HAVE TWO OR MORE VENDORS, UH, WITH THAT UNDER THE DEFINITION.
UM, THEY SUBMITTED SOME INFORMATION WITH YOUR APPLICATION.
THEY DID A STATEMENT OF JUSTIFICATION ALONG WITH THAT.
UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? UH, THERE, THEIR APPLICATION IS FOR RAISED BIG GARDENS, AND THEY MAY TRY TO DO LIKE A COMMUNITY GARDEN WITH THAT.
BUT PART OF OUR CODE, UH, WE FELT IT FELL UNDER THE FARMER'S MARKET CATEGORY.
UM, AND SHE DID GIVE A STATEMENT OF JUSTIFICATION ON THAT EMAIL HERE FROM YOU.
DAVID, MEGAN, WHEN IT COME, WHAT DO THEY HAVE? DO WE KNOW IF THEY HAVE ANY EXPECTATIONS FOR HOW THIS MAY IMPACT TRAFFIC OF THE AREA? I WOULD WONDER, I MEAN, HOW ARE YOU THINKING ONES MIGHT TRAFFIC, I MEAN, IF THE BUSINESS EXPANDS WHAT THEY'RE OFFERING, GONNA HAVE MORE PEOPLE GOING IN AND OUT.
UM, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF WHO WOULD NECESSARILY, DO YOU HAVE ANY ACCESS TO THE PARKING LOT STREET? NO, THEY HAVE ACCESS.
THEY HAVE OTHER ACCESS DOWN HERE, PARKING ON THIS SIDE, AN ENTRANCE HERE OFF SIXTH STREET.
THIS PART, UH, ALSO ENTRANCE OFF OF THIS STREET.
SO THEY DO HAVE A ATORY PATTERN OF TRAFFIC TO FLOW? UH, YES.
THERE CERTAINLY IS A, IS A UGLY
I MEAN, YOU MAY, UH, SHELLY GETS AGE FROM, UH, YOU MAY PUT A CONDITION ON IT IS PROBABLY THAT, UH, YOU COULD REQUIRE THE RESING OF THE PARKING LOT WITH, UH, THE FLOW PATTERN OF ARROW SINCE A PART OF THE PARKING LOT, ACCORDING TO THE DIAGRAM HERE IS GOING TO BE THE RAISED BEDS HERE IN THE MIDDLE.
UH, THAT WOULD BE A CONDITION THAT WOULD BE A REGULAR, THAT WOULD BE A LAND USE ISSUE.
IF YOU FEEL THE PARKING LOT NEEDS TO BE RETRIED WITH APPROPRIATE PARKING SPACES AND DESIGNATED, ACTUALLY HAVE STRIPES ON THAT MAP.
UH, ARE THOSE THERE FOR ANOTHER REASON? I WAS, I'M ASSUMING DONE.
SO THIS INFORMATION IN REGARD TO USE IS INCORRECT.
THIS IS THIS TO SHOW THE PROPERTY LINES IN PROPOSED AREA.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING THEY HAD DONE SOME TIME AGO.
UH, THE LAYOUT OF THE PARKING IS, AND THE STRIKING WAS THERE AT ONE TIME, BUT IT DOES APPEAR, UH, BASED ON THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT, UH, YEAH, WELL THAT PROPERTY HAS BEEN PRETTY DESOLATE FOR A LONG TIME.
UH, BUT LIKE PART OF THIS AREA WOULD BE WHERE THE RAY'S BEDS WERE.
BUT IF YOU HAVE A CONCERN OVER THE TRAFFIC FLOW IN A NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES, UH, THAT WOULD BE A CONDITION WOULD BE IN A REASONABLE CONDITION.
UH, JUST LIKE THE PARKING LOT.
PARKING, CLEARLY MARKED LOW TRAFFIC.
THAT WOULD BE A LAND USE, UH, CONCERN.
AND, UH, AND ALSO FROM THE ORIGINAL THING, YOU KNOW, COULD BE I GOING TO THE AESTHETIC PORTIONS OF HOW IT LOOKED THE PUBLIC AS THEY GO BY, LOOK, SEE, LOOK AND FEEL AND SMELL.
SO YOU, UH, YOU MAY WANNA ASK THE APPLICANT, YOU KNOW, THE RAISED BEDS, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEIR, WHAT BE MADE OUT OF.
WHAT, WHAT MATERIAL THE RAISED BEDS ARE GONNA BE MADE OUT OF, ARE THEY, UM, YOU KNOW, KNOW, IS IT OUT OF TIMBERS, THE HEIGHT OF IT? UH, OR THOSE, LIKE SOME OF THE BACKYARD GARDENS WHERE THEY RAISE CROPS IN TIRES OR STUFF LIKE THAT FOR, I RAISED POTATOES IN THE STRAW MANURE.
SO THOSE ARE SOME QUESTIONS YOU MAY ASK, UH, THE APPLICANT.
[00:30:01]
BEDS THEY IS GONNA BE ORGANIC, FOR EXAMPLE.UH, MAY THAT MAY OR MAY OR NOT BE.
UH, I JUST, UH, BUT HOW THEY'RE GOING TO IT IS BECAUSE OF WHERE IT IS.
IT'S THE AESTHETICS TO GO ALONG WITH IT.
AND SO SMELL COULD BE A PORTION OF THIS, BUT, UM, WHAT IS DEBBIE'S LIGHTHOUSE? UM, DOES ANYBODY KNOW THAT IT SAYS THAT THIS IS GONNA BE STAGE ONE IS, UH, IT'S A CHARITY.
IT'S ONE OF THE VENDORS THERE.
IS IT WELL UNDER THERE? 'CAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE, UH, IT'D BE ONE BE USED AS WELL, BILLY, ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MR. SONNET.
UM, PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR FARMER'S MARKET.
YOU MIGHT WANT TO GO THROUGH THOSE REAL QUICK.
WHICH WOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY CONDITIONS TO THE PERMIT IF IT'S RECOMME FOR APPROVAL.
SO THEY HAVE TO HAVE ADEQUATE WATER AND SANITARY FACILITIES SHALL BE PROVIDED, FOUND NECESSARY BASED ON THE SIZE AND THE FREQUENCY AND THE DURATION OF THE MARKET.
THAT'S UNDER THE PER, UH, PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.
PRESUMABLY THEY ALREADY HAVE THAT IN THE COURT, BUT WE, WE DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GONNA ALLOW THEM.
RESTROOM,
UM, NO ADVERSE EFFECT ON THE JOINT PROPERTIES INCLUDED, BUT NOT LIMITED TO EXCESSIVELY OR UNTIMELY NOISE OR LIGHTING, OVERFLOW, PARKING, VISUAL PROBLEMS, POTENTIALLY AFFECTING THE PROPERTY VALUES.
ALL TABLES, FACILITIES AND STRUCTURES SHALL BE MAINTAINED IN A WELL KEPT AND ATTRACTIVE MANNER.
NO MANUFACTURED BUILDINGS SHALL BE PERMITTED OTHERWISE, UNLESS OTHERWISE APPROVED AS PART OF SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
ALL TEMPORARY STRUCTURES OR FACILITIES SHALL BE REMOVED DURING THE DAYS THE MARKET IS NOT IN OPERATION.
AND THE, THAT ON FLEA MARKETS IS, UH, FARMER'S MARKETS ELECT CLOSE DURING PART OF THE YEAR, IS REQUIRED TO CLOSE DURING THE PART OF THE YEAR BY THE CONDITION OF THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, UH, AND SUCH.
SO THOSE ARE PART OF THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.
UH, ALSO, UM, AREAS SHALL BE SWEPT CLEAN, HOSED DOWN, AND PICKED, CLEANED DAILY.
DEBRIS SHALL BE PERMITTED TO REMAIN UPON SITE OVERNIGHT.
UM, THEY HAVE TO HAVE THE, UH, VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH OR DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE LABEL.
UM, LANDSCAPING SHALL BE PROVIDED WHERE FEASIBLE FENCING MAY BE REQUIRED FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVEMENT OF AESTHETICS OR SCREENING OR PUBLIC SAFETY.
AND THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN MADE AWARE OF THOSE PERFORMANCE STANDARD OR WILL BE? THEY WILL BE, YES.
IF, IF THAT'S PART OF THE PROVISION OF THE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS THAT REQUIRES THOSE.
SO CLEARLY THE PRODUCT THERE OVERNIGHT IS GROWING IN THE RAISED BED.
THAT WOULD BE UNDER THE URBAN AG, UH, PART WHERE YOU CAN GROW.
IT'S THE SELLING OF THE PRODUCT.
SO I WOULD CONSIDER THE RAISED BEDS UNDER THE URBAN AG WHERE YOU CAN GROW.
I DON'T SEE ANY REASON FOR US TO REQUIRE FENCING FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS PERSONAL NO.
IT, IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST THE, UH, STANDARD WE WOULD ATTACH, WE ATTACH THOSE, UH, PERFORMANCE STANDARDS TO THE, THOSE WILL BE PART OF THE, UH, SPECIAL USE PERMIT THEY HAVE TO REQUIRE TO MEET THOSE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.
AND THAT'S BEYOND, BEYOND US, SO TO SPEAK, IN THIS AS REQUIRED FOR EACH OF THOSE.
YOU MAY, AGAIN, THE PARKING, IF THAT'S CONCERNED, IT APPEARS IT IS.
UH, YOU COULD PUT A CONDITION, UH, WITH THE PARKING AND THE TRAFFIC FLOW THAT NEEDS TO BE REMARKED TOWN STANDARDS FOR THE SIZE OF PARKING SPACES IN THE DIRECTIONAL ARROWS.
I WOULD SUGGEST IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA DO, GO, YOU KNOW, WRITE UP SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, SO WHEN WE GET TO THE ACTUAL MEETING, WE COULD PUT THAT IN THE STAFF REPORT IF YOU STAFF.
SO, SO WE HAVE THAT GOING INTO I'M GLAD THAT YOU PICKED UP ON THAT.
'CAUSE WHEN I WAS ASKING ABOUT TRAFFIC, THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT I WAS THINKING AND I JUST WASN'T SAYING IT.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO, WE'D HAVE TO LOOK TO SEE WHAT THE USE OF THE EXISTING BUILDING IS AND CALCULATED THE REQUIRED PARKING SPACES FOR THAT PRIMARY USE.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS.
UH, THEN, UH, THEY WOULD HAVE TO ACCOMMODATE THE PRIMARY USE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
UH, SO WE DON'T ELIMINATE THE REQUIRED PARKING FOR THAT USE.
BUT THERE IS, AS FAR AS PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR THE FARMER'S MARKET ITSELF, IS THERE AN INDEPENDENT, ONE STANDARD TO GO? UM, OR I'M NOT, LET ME CHECK HERE.
[00:35:01]
I DID NOT SEE THAT, BUT I'LL DOUBLE CHECK AGAIN.YOU SEE THE, I DON'T PUT IN PRETTY LARGE.
I DOUBT THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO MEET IT, BUT THEY WOULD JUST HAVE TO ALLOCATE.
IT SHOWS THE LAST COUPLE DAYS.
WE ONLY HAVE A CATEGORY FOR GREENHOUSE AND LANDSCAPING NURSING FACILITIES.
UM, WE DO NOT HAVE A STANDARD FOR PARKING FOR A FARMER'S MARKET.
THAT WOULD BE A SINGLE LAYER OF PARKING FARM SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT.
BECAUSE IT, THE SENSE I GET IS THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT REALLY DOING THE FARMER'S MARKET IN THE SENSE THAT WE THINK OF A FARMER'S MARKET AS, IT'S NOT LIKE ONE THAT WE SEE AT THE GAZEBO.
THEY'LL, THIS IS, THEY'RE GROWING THE STUFF.
SOME NUMBER OF, AND THEN THEY'RE DISTRIBUTING IT TO, THEY REQUIRED WITH FARMER'S MARKET, THEY LEAST HAVE TO HAVE TWO VENDORS.
WELL, I GUESS, I GUESS ONE VENDOR IS DEBBIE'S LIGHTHOUSE.
I THINK WE'RE INTERPRETING VENDORS TOO.
IS INDIVIDUALS RUNNING OUT SPACES TO GROW STUFF? WOULD THEY BE ONE OF THE VENDORS IN EFFECT? 'CAUSE THEY'D BE GROWING STUFF FOR THEIR OWN USE.
WELL, IF THEY'RE GROWING THINGS FOR THEIR OWN USE, THEN THERE'S NO SALES TO BE HAD.
WHAT I, BUT I, BUT YEAH, I'M JUST, I DON'T KNOW.
IT, IT, THERE'S ASPECTS OF THIS THAT'S, UH, YEAH, IT'S INTERWOVEN.
THE COMMUNITY GARDEN ASPECT WHERE PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO LIKE, YOU KNOW, RENT AN AREA OF IT THAT WOULD, I ASSUME FALL UNDER THE URBAN AG ASPECTS.
UM, AND THEN IT'S JUST WHOEVER'S ACTUALLY SELLING THINGS, WHICH SEEMS LIKE IT'LL JUST BE THE TWO.
UM, SEEMS IT MAY, IT MAY, UH, YOU KNOW, EXPAND.
UH, SO YOU MAY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S PART OF YOUR CONSIDERATION.
IT MAY EXPAND WITH OTHER VENDORS.
SO WE SAID, YEAH, JUST SET OUT, WE'VE BEEN ON THIS GUYS, WE'VE BEEN ON THIS 25 MINUTES AND THIS IS AN EASY ONE.
WELL, BIG, BIG THING I THINK IS MAKE, MAKE SURE WE HAVE OUR QUESTIONS WRITTEN DOWN SO WE CAN ASK THE APPLICANT WHEN WE GET IN THERE AND HAVE THAT.
SO, BUT YOU WOULD, UH, RATHER A MOTION, WE MAKE A, A DRAFT MOTION WITH THE PARKING? I, I THINK, I THINK SO.
TO RE STRIKE THE PARKING STRIKE.
THE PARKING AND THE DIRECTION OF TRAVEL.
SO THAT, THAT WOULD HANDLE IT.
AND THAT WOULD ALSO HELP GOVERN AS THEY EXPAND BY HAVING THAT CONDITION IN THERE.
AND THIS ONE, THIS ONE SHOULDN'T BE TWO.
SO THAT'S A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
AGAIN, WE'RE DOING TWO TONIGHT.
UH, THAT'S, UH, FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
UH, THAT'S AT 66 WEST ROSEBURG ROAD.
UH, KIND OF FAMILIAR WITH THIS AREA.
SO JUST TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY, UH, THESE HOUSES HERE, UH, HAVE NOW BEEN DEMOLISHED OR DEMOED THESE HOUSES IN THIS STRETCH HERE.
THIS IS THE REAR WHERE YOU APPROVED RECENTLY FOR REZONING, FOR TOWNHOUSES TO BE BUILT HERE.
AND YOU APPROVED A REZONING HERE.
SO THIS IS THE, THE HOUSE, THE REMAINING SINGLE FAMILY HOME THERE ON THAT BLOCK.
IT'S ON A DEAD END ROAD THERE AT THE HAMMERHEAD.
WE REFER TO THAT TO WHERE THE OLD, YOU KNOW, FORMAL STRASBURG ROAD WENT HERE.
SO IT'S THAT HOUSE THERE ON AT 66.
UH, THERE IS THE, UH, HOUSE THERE, UM, PUBLIC HEARING SIGN POSTED THERE.
UH, WE DID DO A, WE'RE SCHEDULED TO DO AN INTERIOR SITE VISIT NEXT WEEK.
SO JUST BE BEAR IN MIND FOR THAT.
UH, YOU MAY WANT TO ASK THAT QUESTION AT THE PUBLIC HEARING IF WE CAN, IF IT PASSED INSPECTION OR NOT.
UH, WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT NEXT WEEK INSPECTION, THAT WE'LL PASS INSPECTION.
UH, SO YOU MAY WANT TO ASK STAFF OR SHOULD ASK STAFF IF IT DID PASS INSPECTION.
UM, THE PEOPLE THAT OWN IT ARE NOT, UH, IN THIS, DON'T LIVE IN THIS AREA.
SO WAS TRYING TO, UH, COORDINATE AN INSPECTION TIME FOR 'EM.
UM, INTERESTING ABOUT THE THING.
THEY DID PUT ON THEIR APPLICATION.
UM, STAFF DID NOT SEE ONE PARKING SPACE ON SITE.
UH, WE DID GO OUT AND ACTUALLY THE PROPERTY LINE IS HERE.
UH, VERY LIMITED, UH, ACCESS ON THAT EXISTING APRON.
UM, 75% OF IT'S ON THE ADJOINING PROPERTY.
[00:40:01]
NO ANY PAVEMENT OR GRAVEL DOWN FOR A PARKING SPACE.UH, SO THIS IS A RESIDENTIAL BUILDING REQUIRES TWO OFF STREET PARKING SPACES.
UH, WE DID NOT SEE ANY, UM, THERE.
AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PHOTOGRAPH HERE, IT'S GRASS THERE ON THE FRONT.
UM, WHERE DID THE PEOPLE PARK WHO OWNED IT BEFORE THEY JUST PARKED ON THE STREET? WE NEVER HAD, UH, I THINK THEY PARKED THE, UH, ARROW IMAGERY SHOWS THEM PARKING IN THE GRASS.
BUT THIS IS GONNA BE DEVELOPED FROM HERE ON, DOWN, DOWN.
THEY HAVE TO GO ONTO SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROPERTY TO PULL IN THEIR DRIVEWAY.
UH, THEY HAVE RESTRICTIONS THERE WITH THE POWER POLE THERE.
AND THE FIRE HYDRANT ON THIS OTHER SIDE.
SO THAT'S PROBABLY WHY, UH, WHEN THAT ROAD IMPROVEMENT WAS DONE, THEY PUT THE APRON THERE.
'CAUSE THEY WERE CHALLENGED BY THE PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS OF THE FIRE HYDRANT AND THE EXISTING UTILITY POLE.
UH, THERE'S ANOTHER SHOT OF THAT.
UH, SO YEAH, IT DOES LOOK VERY LIMITED, UH, TO GET ACCESS IN HERE IN, IN MY OPINION, JUST LOOKING AT THAT.
AND THAT'S, IT'S A BUILT IN PROBLEM WITH THE HOUSE, WHETHER IT WAS A RENTAL OR NOT.
UH, IT NEVER REALLY DOES HAVE.
AND, AND, AND THE DROP OFF IN THE BACK DOESN'T ALLOW FOR TWO CARS, IF I REMEMBER DISCOGRAPHY.
UH, SO THERE'S THE DEFINITION OF A SHORT TERM RENTAL MEANS OF PROVISION OF OUR ROOM SPACE SUITABLE, UH, FOR A PERIOD FEWER THAN 30 DAYS.
UH, ACCORDING TO THEIR APPLICATION, THAT IS THEIR SECOND RESIDENCE.
UM, THEY DID SUBMIT A MANAGEMENT PLAN, UH, SO IT WILL NOT BE OWNER OCCUPIED.
SO THEY'RE DOING THAT AS A SECONDARY RESIDENCE ONLY FOR TWO PEOPLE.
UH, BUT OUR DEFINITION UNDER PARKING FOR RESIDENTIAL IS TWO OFF STREET PARKING.
I THINK WE KNOW WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT.
THEY DO SAY THAT THEY HAVE ADDITIONAL STREET PARKING AVAILABLE.
WHY ARE WE EVEN BRINGING THIS FORWARD AT THIS POINT IF IT CAN'T PASS THE PARKING REQUIREMENT? WHY ARE, GOOD QUESTION.
UM, WHY WOULD WE BRING IT FORWARD? 'CAUSE IT WAS PART OF THE CONSENSUS AGENDA THAT THEREFORE HAS TO GO TO PUBLIC HEARINGS.
NO, I, I, I REALIZE THEY'RE ASKING FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
ESPECIALLY IF LIKE, BUT THEY'RE NOT ASKING FOR PARKING EXEMPTION.
SO I'M SAYING DEFER THIS FOR ANOTHER MONTH TO LET THEM WORK THAT OUT RATHER THAN TRY TO TAKE IT TO THE, WELL, WE CAN FORWARD OUR WHATEVER RECOMMENDATION.
IT'S OH, ONCE WE GET TO THE MEETING, YOU KNOW? YEAH.
BUT JUST, JUST, JUST A THOUGHT THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY HAVE A, WE HAVE A, A PROBLEM BUILT IN.
SO IS THERE A DEFICIENCY IN THE APPLICATION? YEAH.
NOW STANDS IS THERE, JOHN, DOES IT SHOW PARKING? THEY SAY THEY HAVE PARKING ON THE APPLICATION.
IT SAYS ONE SPOT AND WE ARE, YOU JUST SAID IT REQUIRES TWO.
AND THEN THE, THE, THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE DOESN'T EVEN SUPPORT THE ONE OR WITHOUT ACCESS EASEMENT ON AN ADDITIONAL PERSON'S PROPERTY.
SO IT'S, IT'S NOT AN, A PROBLEM.
AGAIN, WITH THE DEFICIENCY TO BEGINNING WITH IT, IT JUST SEEMS WHAT SEEMS LIKE A WASTE OF EVERYBODY'S TIME.
THIS POINT, I, I DON'T KNOW, BUT, UH, THE APPLICATION WAS ACCEPTED.
THE FEE WAS ACCEPTED, SO ON IT GOES, OKAY, IT'S BEEN ADVERTISED.
ALL THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS NAME FIVE, IT'S BEEN ADVERTISED FOR PUBLIC HEARING.
YEAH, IT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN LA LAST MONTH.
JUST A PUBLIC HEARING THIS MONTH ON THE 21ST.
WELL, SO, BUT THE PARKING DEFICIENCY AND THAT SORT OF THING WASN'T KNOWN WHEN THE FIRST GOT MOVED FORWARD.
ACCORDING TO THE APPLICATION THEY HAD PARKING.
AND, AND, AND, BUT NOW THE EVIDENCE IS SAYING OTHERWISE.
SO WE JUST, THE, THE, WHAT WE DID, IT APPEARS THAT WAY.
I HAVE NOT DID AN ONSITE INSPECTION JUST AS FAR AS THE INTERIOR WHEN I LOOKED AT THIS, IT DOES NOT APPEAR.
I JUST WANNA BRING THAT TO YOUR ATTENTION.
IT DID NOT APPEAR THAT THEY HAVE, IN MY OPINION, I I I'M ASSUMING THEY COULD EXPAND AND PUT PARKING HERE.
IT DOES LOOK LIKE THEY COULD PUT PARKING IN THERE.
THEY DON'T HAVE PARKING IN THEIR EXISTING, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THAT SPOT WITHOUT GOING ON SOMEONE ELSE'S PROPERTY.
WELL, THEY COULD MAKE AN
THEY COULD, THEY COULD, THEY COULD RECONFIGURE SOMETHING HERE ON THE SIDEWALK IF THAT'S BEING NECESSARY.
THEY COULD DO A, UH, GET A RIGHT OF WAY UTILIZATION PERMIT AND REVAMP THIS, UH, CONCRETE APRON.
I I GUESS WE'RE, WE'RE BEATING YOU UP A LITTLE BIT HERE ON THIS FOR YOUR, ON ONSITE INSPECTION.
LET'S NOT, YOU HAVE YOUR ON ONSITE INSPECTION AND THEN WE HAVE THE, UM, REGULAR MEETING IN TWO WEEKS.
[00:45:01]
ISSUES WE JUST NEED, YOU COULD PLACE AGAIN, YOU COULD PLACE CONDITIONS ON THEM TO INSTALL OFF STREET PARKING AS REQUIRED.BUT I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO, I THINK WE KNOW WHAT WE NO, BUT NO THAT THE INFORMATION YOU BROUGHT, THAT, THAT, THAT PUTS A WRINKLE WRINKLE IN IT.
THEY CLAIM THE APPLICATION SAID THEY HAD OFF STREET PARKING, BUT IT THANK YOU, JUDGE.
WE CAN ONLY GO WITH WHAT THE APPLICATION STATES.
2 5 0 0 0 5 0 PRELIMINARY PLAN FOR THE MAJOR SUBDIVISION PRELIMINARY PLAN.
SO, UH, YOU SHOULD BE KIND OF QUITE FAMILIAR WITH THIS PROJECT, UM, OVER THE LAST NINE MONTHS OR SO.
UH, SO THIS APPLICATION FOR PRELIMINARY PLAN, MAJOR SUBDIVISION, UH, LOCATED OFF OF HAPPY CREEK ROAD.
SO THERE IS THE AERIAL VIEW, UM, UH, OF THE PROPERTY PRESENT DAY, UH, THERE OFF OF OPEN STREET AND HAPPY CREEK ROAD.
UH, THE PARCEL THERE THAT WAS APPROVED FOR A REZONING, UH, TOWN COUNCIL DID APPROVE RECENTLY THE REDUCTION IN THE STREET WIDTH, UH, THAT CAME BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION A MONTH OR SO AGO, UM, IN MARCH.
SO TOWN COUNCIL DID APPROVE THE REDUCTION IN STREET WIDTH FOR THIS TYPE OF SUBDIVISION.
SO THE FIRST STEP, UH, UNDER 1 48 3 10 PRELIMINARY PLAN SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS, UH, PRELIMINARY PLAN IS REQUIRED FOR ALL PROPOSED MAJOR SUBDIVISIONS.
UH, AND IT SHOULD UNDER, UH, 1 48 3 10 B, YOU KNOW, IT SHOULD SHOW THE MAJOR LAYOUT OF THE MAJOR SUBDIVISIONS SHOULD SHOW PROPOSED LOTS, THE PARCEL STREETS, STORM DRAINAGE, AND PUBLIC UTILITIES.
UM, SO IT HAS TO BE RE REQUIRED BY OUR CODE DOES GET, UH, REVIEWED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
UH, SO I JUST HIGHLIGHTED A COUPLE KEY POINTS.
YOU KNOW, THE APPROVAL OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAN DOES NOT CONSTITUTE ACCEPTANCE OF THE PLAT FOR RECORDING AND DOES NOT CONSTITUTE APPROVAL OF THE FINAL PLAQUE.
AND THE PRELIMINARY PLAN DOES NOT AUTHORIZE CONSTRUCTION OF IMPROVEMENTS.
SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE NOT APPROVING THEM TO GO TO CONSTRUCTION.
IT IS NOT A, UH, 100% CIVIL ENGINEERING DRAWING.
SO YOU'RE GIVING THEM PRELIMINARY APPROVAL FOR THIS TO GO FORWARD.
UH, THEY DID MEET, UH, PART OF THE CODE REQUIREMENTS OF 1 48, 10 10.
UH, THAT'S IN THE CODE IN POUND CODE.
THEY DID MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CHECKLIST.
UH, THERE WAS, OR WE SENT, UH, THE, THE, UH, APPLICATION TO, UH, VDOT.
UH, THEY DID MAKE SOME COMMENTS ON THE ROADS.
UH, WARREN COUNTY DOES NOT MAKE COMMENTS FOR EROSION SEDIMENT CONTROL BECAUSE IT'S A PRELIMINARY PLAN.
UH, THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY, UH, DOES NOT REVIEW THE STORM WATER AT THIS STAGE.
UH, SO JUST, JUST SO WHEN PEOPLE ASK, YOU KNOW, THIS DOES NOT GIVE AUTHORIZATION, UH, FOR THEM TO DO CONSTRUCTION OR RE EVEN RECORD THE PLAT.
UM, THIS, THIS THE PRELIMINARY PLAT OR THE PLAN.
SO WHAT HAPPENS WITH THESE MAJOR SUBDIVISIONS, THE SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND FINAL SUBDIVISION PLAT ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL MAJOR SUBDIVISION.
AND NOW THE APPLICANT SHALL HAVE NOT MORE THAN 36 MONTHS AFTER RECEIVING OFFICIAL NOTIFICATION OF THE APPROVAL OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAN TO FILE THE MAJOR SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
SO AFTER APPROVAL OF THIS, THEY HAVE THREE YEARS, 36 MONTHS TO GET THEIR PLAT, THE SUBDIVISION PLAT AND THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN APPROVED.
UH, IF THEY DO NOT, UH, THEN THE PLAN WITHIN THAT 36 MONTH PERIOD, THEN THE PLAN IS NULL AND VOID.
SO THAT MEANS IN PRACTICAL TERMS, THAT AFTER THEY GET THE APPROVAL OF THIS PRELIMINARY PLAN, THEY THEN CAN GO OUT AND GET FUNDINGS.
THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT THE PRELIMINARY PLAN AFTER APPROVAL AUTHOR GIVES THEM AUTHORIZATION TO CONTINUE WITH THEIR CIVIL ENGINEERING PART OF IT.
RIGHT? SO THEY CAN GO IN MORE IN DEPTH ON THEIR ENGINEERING PRACTICES FOR STORM WATER AND FOR EROSION SEDIMENT CONTROL ON THAT.
IN PRACTICAL TERMS, THAT MAKES AN INVESTOR, IF THEY'RE LOOKING TO
OUR, UH, FOR THAT THEY'RE INVESTED IN THIS.
SO IF THEY DO NOT DO ANY DILIGENT PURSUIT WITH THE PROJECT WITHIN THIS 36 MONTHS, THEN THE PRELIMINARY PLAN IS VOIDED.
OKAY? SO THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT THE PRELIMINARY PLAN IS FOR,
[00:50:01]
UH, PART OF THIS PROJECT.IT DOES HAVE SOME ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENTS, UH, OR STEEP SLOPES ON IT.
UH, PART OF THAT CODE, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT, UH, PREVIOUSLY AT THE HAPPY CREEK KNOLL SECTION FOUR, WHERE THEY REVISED THE ALREADY APPROVED OR, OR PUT AN APPLICATION IN TO REVISE THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PLAN.
IF YOU RECALL THAT ON STEEP SLOPES.
YOU RECALL THAT WHEN THAT, WHERE SLOPES WERE AT A THREE TO ONE APPROVED BY THE PLAN, AND THE APPLICANT CAME BACK WITH STEEPER SLOPES AT A TWO TO ONE, UH, WITH FIVE HOUSES ON THERE, IF YOU REMEMBER THAT.
SO THIS SITUATION, WE DO HAVE, UH, STEEP SLOPES ON THIS PROPERTY.
UH, WE ALSO HAVE RECEIVED PRELIMINARY PLANS FOR ANOTHER SUBDIVISION.
AGAIN, STEEP SLOPES ON IT TOO.
SO YOU'LL HEAR ME TALK ABOUT THIS ON AND GONE.
'CAUSE THESE PROJECTS OF THIS, UH, PARCELS THAT WE HAVE HERE IN TOWN, A MAJORITY OF THESE HAVE SOME TYPE OF ISSUES.
AND THESE ISSUES WITH THIS ONE IS WITH STEEP SLOPES.
SO PART OF THAT ENVIRONMENTAL, UH, IMPROVEMENTS, UH, WE SHOULD, THEY SHOULD ENCOURAGE INNOVATIVE DEVELOPMENT FOR THESE TYPE OF PROJECTS.
UM, SO THAT WAS A KEY THAT WE PICKED UP ON.
GLEN, WE JUST, I DID NOT INCLUDE 57 PAGES IN THESE SLIDES.
WE SLIDE
OKAY, SO THE, I MEAN, YOU HAVE THAT IN YOUR PACKET.
WE BROUGHT THE PAPER COPY IF YOU WANNA LOOK.
UH, SO SOMETIMES ON YOUR SCREENS, UH, VERY SMALL.
UH, AGAIN, THEY MET ALL THE CONDITIONS OF THE CHECKLIST, UH, WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS.
IF YOU REMEMBER ON THIS SUBDIVISION, THE REZONING WAS FOR 104 LOTS.
UH, THEY HAVE, UH, NARROWED THAT DOWN.
THEY HAVE DECREASED THAT TO 97 RESIDENTIAL DWELLING UNITS.
THEY TOOK AN ACCOUNT TO STEEP SLOPES.
UH, THIS HERE, THEY DID AN OPEN SPACE HERE ON, ON THIS LOT, UH, AREA HERE.
THEY CREATED OPEN SPACES BETWEEN THE REARS OF THESE LOTS.
SO THIS AREA HERE, THIS IS AN OPEN SPACE.
AND IN BETWEEN THESE IS OPEN SPACE IN BETWEEN THE REAR OF THE LOTS.
AND THEY DID THE SAME IN BETWEEN THE REAR HERE.
SO THIS IS CREATED OPEN SPACE IN THERE.
THEY HAVE A STORM WATER MANAGEMENT PAN, UH, POND DESIGNATED AND EXPANSION ON THIS AREA AND ONE DOWN HERE.
AND THEY HAVE RETAINING WALLS, WHICH IS PART OF THE CODE FOR STEEP SLOPES.
HOW YOU HANDLE STEEP SLOPES IS TO INSTALL RETAINING LOSS.
SO THEY TOOK THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.
THEY REDUCED THE LOSS FROM 1 0 4, RESIDENTIAL LOSS FROM 1 0 4 TO 97.
UH, SO THERE'S THE AREA THAT SHOWS STEEP SLOPES.
THESE NUMBERS HERE ARE THE SOILS TYPE TELLS US HERE IDENTIFIED AND IT TELLS US THAT THEY'RE HIGHLY ERODIBLE OR THEY, WHAT CLASSIFICATION THEY FALL INTO.
SO THEY TOOK THAT INTO CONSIDERATION AND THEY SHADED THAT AREA, WHICH IS REQUIRED WITH THE, UH, PRELIMINARY PLAN TO SHOW THE STEEP SLOPE AREAS.
SO WHAT THEY'VE COME UP WITH WAS THIS INNOVATIVE DESIGN.
SO THIS WOULD BE THE STREET ON THE ONE LEVEL, THE YARD, THE HOUSE WITH A WALKOUT BASEMENT DOWN THE SLOPE, THE OPEN SPACE AREA WITH TREE PLANTINGS DOWN TO THE NEXT HOUSE, UP AGAIN TO THE NEXT STREET.
SO THIS IN BETWEEN HERE IS GONNA BE AN OPEN SPACE WITH TREE PLANTINGS.
AND THEY'LL, THAT'S KIND OF LIKE A TERRACE, UH, ASPECT OF IT THAT WE ARE SOME RETAINING WALLS PROJECTED ON SOME OF THE LOTS.
BUT THAT'S A TYPICAL CROSS SECTION WITH HOW THE LAYOUT WOULD LOOK, UH, SUBSTANTIALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE HAPPY CREEK KNOLL SECTION FOUR SUBDIVISION, IF YOU RECALL ON THAT ONE THAT HAD, HAS ISSUES WITH STEEP SLOPES.
SO, UH, THEY DID A VERY GOOD, UH, SCHEMATIC HERE TO SHOW YOU HOW THEY'RE GONNA HANDLE THIS.
SO THAT'S THE OVERALL VIEW OF IT, UH, SHOWING THAT THESE WERE THE PLANTINGS WILL GO IN, IN THE REAR OF THE HOUSES THAT'LL BE MAINTAINED BY THE HOA, NOT FOR THE PRIVATE, UH, PROPERTY OWNERS IN ANOTHER ONE HERE.
NOW THEY DID PUT, UH, SHOWING THIS DIAGRAM TREES FOR STREET TREES.
SO THIS IS NOT AN INCLUSIVE LANDSCAPING PLAN.
SO UNDER THE LANDSCAPING PLAN, WHEN THEY GET FURTHER WITH THIS SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN, THEY HAVE TO COME UP WITH A LANDSCAPING PLAN.
UH, NOT TO GET TOO MUCH IN THE WEEDS, BUT WITH THE LANDSCAPING PLAN, THEY'D TAKE THE AREA OF THE LOT, GET THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE LOT, THE AREA THAT THEY'RE GOING TO DISTURB.
UH, THEN BASED ON THE ZONING CLASSIFICATION, THEY HAVE TO COME UP WITH A PERCENTAGE.
WE HAVE IN OUR CODE A PERCENTAGE
[00:55:01]
OF COVERAGE AREA.SO WITH THAT COVERAGE AREA HAS TO BE, UH, WE'LL SAY FOR EXAMPLE, FOR THIS ONE, I BELIEVE IS 20%, 20% OF THE DISTURBED AREA HAS TO HAVE TREE COVERAGE BASED ON A 20 YEAR GROWTH CYCLE OF THE TREES.
SO THIS JUST DEPICTS THE STREET TREES IN THE OPEN SPACE.
THEY'RE GONNA BE REQUIRED TO HAVE MORE TREE PLANTINGS HERE BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO MEET THE TREE PLANTING.
SO WHEN YOU DO WITH THE TREE PLANTINGS YES.
HOW MANY TREES? I'LL GIVE YOU THE, THE POLITICAL ANSWER.
AND I SAY THAT 'CAUSE WE HAVE A LANDSCAPING PRESERVATION MANUAL THAT LISTS THE TYPE OF TREES.
SO BASED ON IF IT'S, UH, DECIDUOUS TREES OR CONIFERS, THEY PLANT, THEY COVER A DIFFERENT TYPE OF TREE COVERAGE AREA, IF YOU THINK ON THE CANOPY.
SO WHAT YOU CAN DO IF THEY ONLY SELECT ONE INCH CALIPER TREES TO BE PLANTED, THOSE TREES OBVIOUSLY AT 20 YEAR WOULD NOT COVER AS MUCH OF THE CANOPY.
THEY COULD COME IN WITH A TWO INCH DIAMETER TREE AND PLANT LESS TREES, IF YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING.
BECAUSE THE PROJECTED GROWTH OF THAT TREE COVERS THE 20 YEAR CYCLE.
SO WHEN I, WHEN YOU ASK HOW MANY TREES ARE GONNA GET PLANTED, THEY WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE SPECIES THEY WANNA PLANT THE SIZE OF THE TREES AND WHERE THEY'RE GONNA SELECT THEM IN THERE.
BUT WE DO REQUIRE STREET TREES TO BE PLANTED ALONG THE STREET FRONTAGE BASED ON THE LENGTH OF THE ROAD.
SO THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO DISTRIBUTE MORE TREES THROUGH THE LOTS AND POTENTIALLY HAVE SOME SAVE AREAS.
THEY SAVE SOME TREES, THEN THAT CAN OFFSET THE PLANTINGS OF THE PLANTING REQUIREMENTS.
SO JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT, THAT THIS IS NOT THE APPROVED LANDSCAPING PLAN.
IT JUST SHOWS A CONCEPT BASICALLY ENCOMPASSING THE STREET TREES AND ALL THE TREES THAT THEY'RE GONNA PLANT IN THE OPEN SPACE.
UH, SO AGAIN, THIS WAS THE, UH, TRAFFIC CALLING PLAN.
UH, THAT THE, UH, WHERE THEY DID THE NARROWING OF THE STREETS THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED APPROVAL AND TOWN COUNCIL DID GRANT THE EXCEPTION FOR THE STREET NARROWING.
UH, SO THAT WILL HELP SUBSTANTIALLY, UH, AGAIN, WITH THE DESIGN OF THE LOTS.
'CAUSE NOW THE PAVEMENT WITH HERE ON THESE STREETS WILL BE LESS, WENT DOWN FROM 36 TO 29.
YOU'LL HAVE A, A ASPECT OF A, A WIDER YARD, EVEN THOUGH THE RIGHT OF WAY WON'T CHANGE.
AND THAT ENABLES THESE TREES TO BE PLANTED, UH, WHERE THEY'LL GROW A WHOLE LOT BETTER.
IF YOU LOOK ONE THE HAPPY CREEK KNOLLS AND YOU DRIVE OUT THERE MUCH, YOU'LL SEE THE TREES, THE OAK TREES WERE PLANTED RIGHT CLOSE TO THE SIDEWALK.
YOU KNOW, THE TREE, THE ROOT SYSTEMS UNDERNEATH THE SIDEWALK THERE AREN'T ONLY PLANTED TWO OR THREE FOOT OFF THE SIDEWALK.
UH, THE LONGEVITY OF THE LIFE OF THE TREE IS PROBABLY NOT THAT GREAT NOW.
THEN IT CAUSES PROBLEMS WITH THE SIDEWALK BEING BUSTED FOR PUBLIC WORKS TO REPLACE.
SO A BETTER CONCEPT, A BETTER DESIGN SET THESE TREES BACK AWAY FROM THE SIDEWALK AND IN THE PEOPLE'S YARDS WHEN WE LOOK AT THAT PART.
UM, BUT THEY DID MEET EVERYTHING OF TOWN CODE.
UH, WE, THEY DID AND THEY DID HAVE A COUPLE COMMENTS FOR VDOT.
SO ALL THE COMMENTS WILL BE ADDRESSED PRIOR TO YOUR MEETING ON THE 21ST.
THERE WAS SOME LABELING ISSUES.
UH, THEY HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE STREET SIGNS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT NOT REALLY, UH, PART TO, TO HOLD UP THE PROJECT.
FOR LAND USE, YOU HAVE, UH, QUESTIONS CO YES.
A LOT OF ENGINEERING STUFF ON THERE.
I DIDN'T GO OVER, UH, THE PIPING AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT.
UH, WITH THE TREES, I KNOW THAT IT'S IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS AREA, THAT ANY DEVELOPMENTS SHOULD AVOID, UH, THE CLEAR CUTTING OF EXISTING, UH, TREES.
DO WE KNOW, UH, AT THIS POINT, IF, ESPECIALLY IN THESE, YOU KNOW, MORE CREATIVE AND INNOVATIVE AREAS, IF THEY'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, TRY TO PRESERVE AS MANY OF THE TREES THAT ARE CURRENTLY THERE, ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY'RE ALREADY EMBEDDED IN THE SOIL FOR LOOKING AT IT FROM THE PROTECTION OF THE SOIL, IT WOULD BE TO THEIR ADVANTAGE TO DO THAT.
UH, WE DON'T HAVE A REQUIREMENT THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T DO IT.
I'M JUST LOOKING AT IT FROM LIKE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THEN ALSO EVERYTHING WE HAD REVIEWED.
IT'S A CHALLENGE TO DEVELOP THESE SITES.
SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE INNOVATIVE APPROACH.
AND STAFF BELIEVES THEY TAKE A GOOD, INNOVATIVE APPROACH TO CONSERVE SOME AREAS AND WHERE THEY CANNOT SAVE TREES, THEY'LL, THEY'RE REQUIRED TO COME BACK AND PLANT TREES IN THESE OPEN SPACES.
WE LIKE THE IDEA OF HAVING A BUFFER BETWEEN THE RESIDENTIAL LOTS THAT YOU ACTUALLY WON'T BE BUDDING UP TO YOUR NEIGHBOR.
YOU'LL BE BUDDING UP TO AN OPEN SPACE AREA.
AND IT MAKES THE WHOLE AREA MORE ATTRACTIVE.
IT'S BENEFICIAL FOR THEM AND, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS GREAT.
[01:00:01]
I JUST HOPE THAT THEY CAN SUCCESSFULLY AVOID REMOVING EVERY TREETHEY, THEY DO HAVE A COUPLE CHALLENGES, UH, THAT WERE PICKED UP HERE.
THERE WAS CONCERNS FROM THESE RESIDENTS ABOUT STORM WATER RUNOFF GETTING IN THE BACK OF THEIR LOTS HERE.
UH, SO WE DIDN'T INCLUDE THAT ON THAT SLIDE, BUT I'LL INCLUDE THAT IN OUR PRESENTATION ON THE 21ST.
UNFORTUNATELY, UH, THIS DEVELOPMENT, UH, THEY DISCHARGE WATER, STORM WATER ONTO THIS PROPERTY.
UH, THIS MARSHALL'S BOND DOES, OR THE OTHER ONE, THIS ONE DOES.
NOW, CURRENTLY, IT DISCHARGES STORMWATER ON THIS PROPERTY, UH, NOT IN A DEFINED MANMADE OR NATURAL CHANNEL.
SO WE BELIEVE THAT'S THE REASON, UH, BECAUSE IT'S NOT IN A CHANNEL.
IT THE WATER PROCEEDS AND IT GETS IN THESE PEOPLE'S BACKYARDS.
HOWEVER, THE CONTRACT, UH, THE DEVELOPER HAS PROPOSED TO DO STORM DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS HERE TO COLLECT THIS WATER COMING FROM THIS SITE.
AND IT WOULD GO DOWN INTO THE POND.
SO THERE ARE, THERE ARE DESIGN IMPROVEMENTS THERE.
COLLECT THIS WATER FROM THE OTHER SITE
DOES IT HELP THESE RESIDENTS HERE AND DIRECT THAT DOWN IN THE STORM WATER? IT WOULD BENEFIT THE PEOPLE ON ASH ARE CURRENT PEOPLE ON ASHBY, SO THEY TOOK THAT IN ACCOUNT.
SO THEY'RE, I RECALL THEIR COMMENTS AS WELL.
SO THAT, WE'LL, WE'LL SHOW THAT, UH, ON THE 21ST.
I KNOW SOME OF THE RESIDENTS HAD SOME CONCERNS.
THEY HAVE ADDRESSED THAT IT VERY NICE.
AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT.
SO THEY, THEY TOOK THAT IN CONSIDERATION.
THEY TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION OF THE CONCERNS FROM THE WATER RUNNING OFF ACTUALLY.
SO THE WATER KIND OF LIKES, IF YOU, IF YOU THINK OF IT, I'LL JUST, IT GOES FROM HERE TO HERE THEN BACK TO HERE.
SO THEY'RE TRYING TO PICK UP WHAT THEY CAN, UH, TO HELP THOSE RESIDENTS DOWN ON THAT LOWER END.
UH, MY UNDERSTANDING, UH, THEY'RE GOING TO EXPAND THIS STORMWATER MANAGEMENT POND AND TAKE OVER, UH, CONTROL OF THAT ENTIRE POND THEMSELVES WITH THE HOA.
IT'S KIND OF BEEN NEGLECTED OVER THE YEAR.
SO THEY HAVE, UH, ENVISIONED ACQUIRING, UH, AND TAKING ALL THAT POND INTO THEIR RESPONSIBILITY.
ARE THEY GONNA STOCK IT DRAWING? YEAH, I KNOW.
SO, UH, AND AGAIN, WITH THE TRAFFIC COMMON MEASURES, YOU KNOW, UH, THEY, UH, WHICH TRAFFIC COMMON MEASURES, MAYBE ONCE WE GET TO THE SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN, SOME THINGS MAY CHANGE WHEN WE GET 'EM MORE IN DEPTH AND BDOT COMMENTS.
SO DON'T GET, DON'T WANT YOU TO GET CAUGHT UP ON SOME OF THE MINOR, UH, ASPECTS OF IT.
BUT IT'S JUST THE PRELIMINARY STAGE OF IT GRANTING THEM, UH, APPROVAL TO PROCEED WITH MORE IN DEPTH ENGINEERING PRACTICES.
I DON'T WANT THE PUBLIC TO THINK THEY'RE STARTING CONSTRUCTION IN SIX MONTHS, UH, OR WHATEVER.
THE OTHER THING AS WELL IS, IF I RECALL, I MEAN THIS IS JUST THE DEVELOPER.
THIS LAND WILL THEN BE SOLD TO THE BUILDERS.
EVEN THE HOUSING, THE, THE SHAPES AND STYLES OF THE HOUSES THAT WE SEE HERE COULD BE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE END UP, YOU KNOW, SEEING FROM THE BUILDER DOWN THE LINE POTENTIALLY.
UH, BUT THE, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING, THEY'VE, THEY'VE KIND OF STAYED THE COURSE OF WHAT THEY HAVE PROPOSED SINCE THE REZONING.
WHAT'S OUR JOB HERE? WHAT DO YOU NEED FROM US? THIS WILL GO TO THE PUBLIC HEARING.
'CAUSE IT'S REQUIRED, UH, IF YOU HAVE THE IT NOT PUBLIC HEARING OR, I'M SORRY, JUST A REGULAR MEETING.
THIS IS MORE IN THE NATURE OF AN ADMINISTRATIVE.
I DIDN'T THINK THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE RIGHT.
THE PUBLIC MEETING, WE HAVE TWO WEEKS.
JUST DO AN ADMINISTRATIVE ALONG AS BASICALLY, UH, THE CODE MET FOR, UH, LONG AS THEY MEET THE PART OF THE CODE 1 48, 10 10, WHICH THEY DID, UH, YOU HAVE NO REASON NOT TO DENY, OR YOU HAVE NO REASON TO DENY THE APPLICATION.
SHOULD I PUT IT IT'S ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION ONLY, SO WE ONLY VOTE YAY OR NAY.
THEN YOU WOULD, UH, SIGN, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION CHAIR WOULD SIGN APPROVAL THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION DID GIVE THEM AUTHORIZATION TO A PROCEED WITH MORE DETAILED ENGINEERING DRAWINGS.
SO YOU
SO DON'T, I DON'T WANT YOU TO GET IN A BUNCH OF IN DEPTH, JUST SO WE KNOW, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT STORM WATER RUNOFF AND, AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
YEAH, WE HAVE, THIS IS THE ONE THING JUST TO JUST MENTION TO ABOUT THE, UM, AS WE GO THROUGH THE FULLNESS OF TIME, WE'LL WANT MORE DETAIL ON THE GEOTECH REPORT.
BASICALLY THE PRE PRELIMINARY PLAN GIVES THEM,
[01:05:01]
UH, YOUR APPROVAL THAT THEY CAN AND GO OFF AND DO THAT.SO JUST MENTION, IT'S ALL JUST GONNA MENTION MAKE SURE YOUR HOLES ARE IN THE FLAT AREA.
AND IN, IN THE, IN THERE THEY, UH, THEIR GEOTECH MENTIONS THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE ADDITIONAL TESTING.
THAT, SO, AND THIS BASICALLY GIVES THEM AUTHORIZATION COULD BE A PIECE WE JUST, BUT WANT BE ABLE TO SEE THOSE RESULTS IS WHAT I'M SAYING IS AS OPPOSED TO, TRUST ME AT THE MEETING IN TWO WEEKS.
ARE YOU GONNA SHOW ALL THE 57 SLIDES OR JUST WHAT YOU DID TONIGHT? I WASN'T PLANNING ON IT TO, UH, I'LL INCLUDE THE, UH, I MAY INCLUDE THE ONE.
UH, YOU PROBABLY CAN ACCESS THE 57 SLIDES.
UH, BUT A LOT OF ENGINEERING, IT'S DESIGN OF PIPE, PERCENT OF GRADES, ELEVATIONS, UH, THE AVERAGE, YEAH.
AVERAGE PERSON WOULD UNDERSTAND.
I THINK I WENT THROUGH THE, UM, 15 PAGES OF, UH, LET'S SEE HERE FROM PAGE, I'D HAVE TO LOOK HERE.
UH, SO THEY STARTED ON THEIR PROFILES ON PAGE 29 THROUGH 40, UH, LET'S SEE HERE.
SO STAFF DID CHECK ALL THOSE PROFILES ON THE PIPES.
PERCENT OF GRADES AND ELEVATIONS, EVERYTHING.
WE CHECKED THAT SUFFICIENT DIMENSION.
AS WE, WE, WE VERIFIED ALL THAT STUFF.
SO ALL THE THREE TO ONE SLOPES, IT'S ALL MARKED.
ALL, EVERY, IT'S A VERY, VERY, I'LL SHOW SOME ADDITIONAL SLIDES ON THERE.
UH, NEXT WEEK MAYBE FOR THE GRADING PLAN, IT DOES SHOW THREE TO ONE SLOPES.
AND MAINLY A, AFTER SOME OF THE OTHER DEBACLE TO SHOW HOW WELL THIS WAS DONE BY COMPARISON.
I KNOW THEY WAS CONCERNED FROM THE PUBLIC ON THAT STORM WATER RUN OFF.
UH, WITH THAT, I'M NOT GONNA SAY IT IS GONNA CORRECT 100% OF THE PROBLEM, BUT IT WILL SUBSTANTIALLY HELP THE PROPERTIES.
BREATH, FRESH AIR COMPARED TO THE OTHER.
SO WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING ON THIS ONE.
YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I MEAN, IT MEETS THE CODE.
A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, 50 SOME PAGES, A LOT OF INFORMATION TO GO OVER.
UH, BUT THEY DID, WE DID TWO ROUNDS OF, UH, REVIEW FROM THE OTHER AGENCIES ALSO, JUST TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.
THE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW, TEXT AMENDMENTS,
WHICH WE MET BEFORE CAME UP WITH THIS US SOMETHING WE'VE HEARD FROM THEM.
WE HAVE SOMETHING ON THE SCREEN OR WE DO? NO, WE'VE GOT PAPERS HERE.
UH, NO, WE DIDN'T INCLUDE THAT ON THE SCREEN.
I, I THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE A COPY OF IT'S IN, IT IS IN THE DOC.
I JUST HAVE TO, SORRY ABOUT THAT.
UM, JOHN A, A TWO FAMILY HOUSEHOLD OR A TWO FAMILY PROPERTY DOES NOT COUNT UNDER THE SAME DEFINITION AS MULTIFAMILY, CORRECT? CORRECT.
SO WE, WE DID MEET WITH, IF, REMEMBER WE MET WITH THE, UM, ARCHITECTURAL, UM, GROUP AND, UH, ABOUT A CHANGE.
AND WE, UH, WE TALKED AT THAT TIME AND TRYING AND APPROACH WHERE WE ACTUALLY WRITE OUT THE CODE FOR THEM, GET APPROVED.
WE WENT THROUGH OUR GROUP AND FED IT BACK AND WE HEARD BACK FROM ONE OF THE MEMBERS, THE ARCHITECTURAL COMMITTEE I GOT, I GOT NO DISSENTING COMING BACK OR NO ADDITIONAL CHANGES REQUESTED COMING BACK.
UM, THERE IS, UM, UH, I DO NOT THINK WE NEED ADDITIONAL MEETINGS WITH THEM UNLESS THERE'S OBJECTIONS THAT COME BACK.
BUT WHAT WE DO NEED AT THIS POINT, AND I HAVE THE WAS IS AND THE COMMENTS AND THE CHARTS.
IF, IF YOU PEEK AT THOSE AND, UH, IS THAT ACCEPTABLE TO THE TOWN STAFF BY USING IT? AND IS IT ACCEPTABLE OR LEGAL ADVICE? THESE
[01:10:01]
CHANGES CARE TO BE SPOT.I CAN'T, I CAN'T WEIGH IN AT THIS POINT.
WELL THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE ARE ON THIS, YOU KNOW, TO GET THROUGH.
IF, IF, UH, SO WE, I THINK WE'VE DONE OUR DUE DUE DILIGENCE PART.
NOW IT'S BACK TO, UM, PEOPLE WITH A GREATER MINDS THAN OURS DUE.
THIS IS SO BASED ON THE, UH, MEETINGS WE'VE HAD, AND THEN THE, UH, COMMENTS FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS.
UM, I UNDERSTAND THIS BASED ON THE, PREVIOUSLY WE HAD AN APPLICATION FOR LODGING HOUSE IN THE, UH, R ONE DISTRICT, I BELIEVE IT WAS.
UM, BUT OUR CODE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION FELT THAT OUR CODE IS A LITTLE LACKING ON PROVIDING HOUSING OTHER THAN FROM LODGING HOUSES.
I'M SORRY, I'M GOING NO, I UNDERSTAND.
NO, WE SKIPPED THE, WE SKIPPED OVER IT SKIPPED OVER.
WE'LL, WE'LL, YOU'RE OUTTA ORDER.
I THOUGHT WE WERE, ANYWAY, I'M, I'M JUST GOING WITH THE FLOW
UH, SO THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT WAS INITIATED BY THE, UH, BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW.
WITH CONCERNS WITH BUILDING IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND, AND THE REQUEST TO LIMIT, UM, THE, THE DEVELOPMENT TO THE RESIDENTIAL OFFICE STAY RESIDENTIAL.
SO, ON UH, COMMISSIONER ZOS QUESTION.
SO MULTI-FAMILY IS THREE OR MORE DWELLING UNITS.
SO, UM, 'CAUSE THEY HAD SAID THAT, AND, AND NOT TO BRING MYSELF BACK UP 'CAUSE I KNOW IT'S ALREADY OUT AND I'M FINE WITH IT AS, AS IS, BUT I KNOW THAT THEY HAD ALSO SAID THAT TWO FAMILY WAS SOMETHING THEY WERE WILLING TO BE OPEN TO.
I THINK TWO FAMILY IS ALLOWED IN, IN OUR TOWN CODE RIGHT NOW.
WELL, WITH THE WAY THIS IS WRITTEN, THE RESTRICTED HISTOR, THE WAY THE DEFINITION WE HAVE FOR A RESTRICTED HISTORICAL DISTRICT, SINGLE FAMILY WOULD BE JUST THEN SINGLE FAMILY.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY WHAT YOU CHANGE IT.
SO IT IT'S A IT AND THAT'S WHERE WE GO BACK TO OUR, TO YOU GUYS TO SAY, IS, IS THIS WRITTEN ACCEPTABLY? THEN, THEN BRING IT BACK TO A WORK SESSION.
I ASSUME, UH, I'LL, I'LL DEFER.
WE NEED TO COME BACK TO THE WORK SESSION.
WELL, I GUESS IF IT'S CHANGED SUBSTANTIALLY, WE WOULD'VE TO COME BACK TO A WORK SESSION.
I WOULD WOULD ASSUME THERE WAS GONNA BE SOME CHANGES.
UM, ARE WE GONNA TAKE IT TO THE BAR, THE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BEFORE OR JUST MOVE FORWARD? UM, YOU RECEIVED, WE RECEIVED ALL THE CHANGES OR ANY MODIFICATIONS FROM THE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW OF THOSE THAT RESPONDED? YES.
SO IF THERE'S NOT SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES, UH, WELL, LET'S, LET'S LOOK, SEE, DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU GUYS DO, WHAT CHANGES NEED, NEED TO BE MADE.
THEN IF, UH, POTENTIALLY, UM, IF WE HAVE SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES, UH, WE COULD HAVE A, THE WORK SESSION IN JUNE.
WE, YOU COULD ASK THE, UH, BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW TO COME TO YOUR WORK SESSION SINCE YOU ATTENDED THEIR LAST WORK SESSION TO GO OVER AND SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES.
JUST AGAIN, THIS WHOLE PROCESS WAS TRY TO MOVE THE BALL FORWARD SO IT DIDN'T DRAG ON FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS.
AND UH, SO BASICALLY THE LANGUAGE GOES FROM HERE TO GEORGE AND THEN IF HE MAKES ANY CHANGES, COMES BACK TO US, MEET WITH STAFF THERE.
IT'S NOT EVEN LAID OUT YET IN ORDINANCE.
AND WE WOULD NEED TO CHANGE THAT AND PUT THAT IN THERE.
THERE'S CHANGES TO DO WITH IT.
IT'S JUST GRAMMATICAL TYPE THINGS OR, YOU KNOW, ORGANIZATIONAL THINGS.
THAT'S, THAT'S NOT SUBSTANTIAL.
BUT IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, INTENT OR CHANGING AND I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WOULD REQUIRE A JOINT MEETING.
I THINK THERE COULD BE COMMUNICATION.
JUST IF YOU HAVE SUBSTANTIAL, ONCE THE COMMISSION HAPPY YEAH.
SAY YOU GONNA MAKE MORE COMMENTS.
WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER MEETING.
THAT'S KIND OF HOW WE ORIGINALLY WERE GOING, BUT THEN WE THEN JUST DISCUSS IT.
THE QUESTION, IS THE STAFF HAPPY WITH THIS? THE STAFF IS HAPPY, AND THEN IS MOVE FORWARD.
THANK YOU FOR THE REPRIEVE OF A SHORT ITEM.
YOU GET A SENSE OF ACCOMPLISHMENT.
I, I WON'T, I SENT THIS OUT THIS SECOND, BUT YOU'VE SEEN THIS BEFORE.
THIS IN CONJUNCTION TO A WHOLE LOT
[01:15:01]
OTHER MATERIAL THAT'S BEEN FORWARDED.YOU KNOW, FOR BACKGROUND, WE'VE HAD THE ONE MEETING, WE HAVE ANOTHER ONE TOMORROW, AND WE HAVE THE PART OF THE INFORMATION GOING IN TONIGHT.
UM, WHAT I'M ASKING AT THIS POINT IS WE CAME UP THE, OR CAME UP WITH THESE FIVE INITIAL CATEGORIES.
SO I'M JUST GONNA GO THROUGH EACH SECTION OF WHAT I'M HOPING THAT YOU GUYS CAN GIVE ME INPUT ON AT THIS POINT.
UM, SO THIS DESIGN DESIGNATE SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE HOUSING, THE FIRST SECTION WHERE I HAVE THE FIVE, UH, UH, CATEGORIES IN THERE.
IS THERE ANY OTHER CATEGORIES THAT NEED TO BE ADDED OR DO YOU SEE ANY CHANGE TO THIS? REMEMBER AT THE BACK OF THIS DOCUMENT, THERE'S A DEFINITION FOR EACH ONE OF THESE MM-HMM
AND DOES THAT DEFINITION NEED TO BE MODIFIED? SO I'M ASKING FROM YOU GUYS, THE GOAL HERE IS TO GET INPUTS IN THIS SO I CAN WRITE THIS IN CODES AND SO WE CAN GET TO THE STATE THAT WE JUST GOT TO WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL COMMITTEE.
AND, AND WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET TO, SO IF WE GO THROUGH, UM, YOUR COMMENTS NOW OR COMMENTS, I'M SORRY, YOU'VE GOT A QUESTION.
A TEMPORARY HOUSE, TEMPORARY DEFINED TEMPORARY EMERGENCY, HOW IS THAT DEFINED? YEAH, JUST AT THIS POINT, NON-PERMANENT.
AND THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IF, IF THAT'S A COMMENT WHERE YOU THINK WE NEED TO HAVE MAKE TEMPORARY 90 DAYS, 120 DAYS OR WHATEVER IT MAY BE.
WELL, AND WHAT I'M THINKING, BUT MOST PEOPLE ARE IN THERE FOR A YEAR, IS WHAT WE'RE, WE'RE LEARNING IN THESE TEMPORARY HOUSES.
BUT WHAT I'M, WHAT I'M THINKING THAT IS NOT CURRENTLY IS IF, IF THERE SHOULD BE A, IF THERE SHOULD HAPPEN TO COME TO BE A, UH, UH, A SHELTER FOR ANYWAY, MOTHERS YES.
THEY TEND TO STAY THERE FOR NINE MONTHS.
OR SO DO WE SO DEFINE HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE FIX, MAKE THAT A POSSIBILITY.
I I I WAS THINKING TEMPORARY IS PROBABLY OF 12 MONTHS WILL LAST.
WELL, IF THE LAW, ARE WE CONSIDERING KIND OF WHAT WE DEALT WITH LAST MONTH WITH THE ADDICTION RECOVERY AND THINGS LIKE THAT? BECAUSE I SEE IF WE JUST DESIGNATE THESE FIVE CATEGORIES THAT KIND OF LIMITS, LIMITS THINGS.
SO DOMESTIC ABUSE VICTIMS, WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO NEED HOUSING TEMPORARILY? THEY MIGHT NOT BE A VICTIM OF DOMESTIC ABUSE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
WELL, THAT'S IN THE DEF LIKE A FAMILY, UH, SITUATION.
THE, THAT DEFINITION OF THE, UM, UH, WHERE IS IT THAT GONNA BE THREE, THE TEMPORARY EMERGENCY FAMILY, AN EMERGENCY FAMILY HOUSING BRINGS DOWN OR SOMETHING.
AND THEN THE DEFINITION IN THE BACK WOULD HOPEFULLY PICK THAT UP.
OR DO I NEED TO CHANGE THAT DE DEFINITION? I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE SHOULD JUST KIND OF FOCUS JUST ON THESE, THESE ARE KIND OF NARROW, IN MY OPINION.
THEY, THEY ARE, THEY ARE NARROW BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT, IT'S WRITTEN IN SUCH A WAY THAT THEY'RE ONLY GONNA BE ALLOWED IN COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS, ARE SOME OF THEM RELEVANT IN RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS WHERE THEY BENEFIT FROM IT? AND, AND THAT'S WHAT WAS, NOW WE HAD THAT ONE, THAT, THAT OTHER ONE THAT WE, WE WENT THROUGH THAT WAS KIND OF AN OUTLIER, BUT THAT DID HELP SPAWN THIS TO, TO SOME EXTENT.
AND THEN MY QUESTION WOULD BE THEN HOW DO WE ADDRESS THAT ISSUE WHEN IT COMES UP AGAIN? UH, IT IS, HOW DOES IT FIT WITH, IT WOULD FIT WITH THE EXISTING CODE THAT IT COMES NOW? 'CAUSE WE ADDRESSED, UH, WE ADDRESS THE, UM, FACILITY FOR THE MEN'S HOUSE, UH, RIGHT NOW.
WHICH IN, IN, THAT WOULD FIT IN THAT KIND OF CATEGORY.
WELL, I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, DO WE NEED TO DEFINE ANY OF THESE THINGS? 'CAUSE IF IT'S BROUGHT BY A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, LIKE THE LAST ONE, IT CAN SAY, IT CAN BE ANOTHER ORGANIZATION THAT DEALS WITH DOMESTIC ABUSE VICTIMS. AND THEY SAY, WELL, WE'RE PROPOSING THIS FOR THIS GROUP.
AND THIS ONE CAN SAY, WE'RE PROPOSING THIS FOR, UH, RECOVERING ADDICTS.
WE'RE PROPOSING THIS FOR A VETERAN'S TRANSITION.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE, I DON'T KNOW PERSONALLY, I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD HAVE THESE LISTED LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT KIND OF, AGAIN, NARROWS THE FOCUS DOWN.
OKAY, WHAT DOES THE CODE, HOW DOES THE CODE ADDRESS VETERANS SPECIFICALLY, HOW DOES IT ADDRESS ADDICTION? WHY DON'T WE JUST LIST THESE, THEN WE MIGHT BE RIGHT BACK.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? IF WE'RE, UM, SO READ ABROAD, RIGHT? IF WE LEAVE THE, THE, THE VERBIAGE IN THIS CODE SECTION BROAD TO ADDRESS SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE HOUSING OR HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DESIGNATE IT MM-HMM
BUT IT'S NOT, WE'RE NOT LISTING THESE THINGS SPECIFICALLY KIND OF, I THINK YOU COULD LIKE UNDER THE STATE CODE, WHERE UNDER GROUP HOUSING, UH, OR GROUP HOME, YOU COULD LIST THIS AS SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE HOUSING AND PUT LIST THESE WITHIN THAT DEFINITION, WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF
[01:20:01]
IT WOULD FIT FOR VETERAN HOUSING, EMERGENCY FAMILY HOUSING, UH, DOMESTIC ABUSE VICTIMS. AND AT RISK WE COULD, UH, WE COULD HANDLE IT THAT WAY.AND THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD SATISFY WHAT YOU I'M REFERRING TO.
NO, NOT NOT EXCLUDING IT, BUT YOU ARE INCLUDING IT IN SOME OTHER CATEGORIES THAT MAY ARISE IN THE FUTURE.
THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT.
AND, UM, PART OF THIS, THEY ARE EXCLUDED RIGHT NOW EXCEPT FOR IN BASICALLY THE COMMERCIAL AREAS AND THAT THE WHOLE IDEA WAS TO SEE IF THEY FIT IN SOME OF THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS AND THAT, AND, BUT NOT EVERYTHING WOULD POSSIBLY FIT IN RESIDENTIAL AREA.
AND THAT'S WHERE IT GETS PROBLEMATIC.
UM, AND THEN WHEN WE SAY IT'S R ONE, R TWO OR R THREE, AND IS IT A SPECIAL USE PERMIT ONLY IN EVERY CASE? THOSE, THOSE ARE SOME DISCUSSIONS, LIKE YOUR INPUT ON, UM, WELL, WITH THE IDEA OF LEAVING ABROAD, WHICH I THINK MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
UM, IT MAY THEN BE BENEFICIAL TO HAVE IT BE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT EVERY TIME BECAUSE IT'S GONNA BE A VARIETY OF SITUATIONS.
AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO LOOK THEN AT THE USE FOR THAT AREA FOR THIS INTENDED, UH, YOU KNOW, GOAL OF WHATEVER'S GONNA BE GOING THERE.
UM, AND THERE MAY BE SITUATIONS WHERE SOMETHING IS BETTER FOR AN R THREE, R TWO OR OR R ONE OR, OR NOT GOOD FOR THOSE, FOR THOSE AREAS.
LOOKING AT THAT POINT FROM ANOTHER PRISM MM-HMM
IF THE GOAL HERE IS TO HAVE, ALLOW A BATTERED WOMEN'S SHELTER TO BE, COME INTO EXISTENCE WITHOUT A PUBLICLY RECORDED ADDRESS FOR IT, IF IT HAS TO BE AN SUP EVERY TIME, THEN HIS ADDRESS WILL BE PUBLICLY DISCOVERED.
YOU KNOW, IT THAT, IT'S INTERESTING YOU SAY THAT I WAS, AND THIS WAS, I WISH IT WAS MORE RECENT, BUT IT WAS A FEW WEEKS AGO.
I WAS LOOKING AT THE STATE CODE WHEN IT COMES TO SOME THINGS, THINGS ALONG THESE LINES.
AND YOU KNOW, GEORGE PROBABLY KNOW WAY MORE THAN I KNEW ABOUT THIS, BUT, UM, THERE'S A PART OF IT THAT WAS TALKING ABOUT, UM, HO LIKE, UH, SHELTERS FOR CHILDREN AND IT SAID THAT THEY HAD TO BE PUBLIC, PUBLICLY KNOWN.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT BE ANYTHING SIMILAR WHEN IT COMES TO WOMEN.
I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S JUST SPECIFICALLY A PROTECTION FOR CHILDREN AND THE IDEA THERE, BUT, UM, WE, I I WOULD BE, I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO KNOW WHAT, WHAT THE STATE HAS TO SAY, IF ANYTHING, ABOUT WHAT NEEDS TO BE PUBLIC VERSUS NOT.
I UNDERSTAND WITH, WITH SOMETHING LIKE BATTERED WOMEN'S SHELTER, YOU'D NOT NECESSARILY WANT IT TO BE, UH, PUBLIC IN THE SAME WAY THAT WOULD BE, BUT UNLESS WE WERE DESIGNATE EXCEPT FOR BETTER WOMEN SHELTERS, THOSE ARE
LIKE I SAY, WE ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT BEFORE IN THE RESEARCH.
IT, IT'S BECOME, TRYING TO KEEP IT PRIVATE FOR A FIXED DRESS HAS BEEN IMPOSSIBLE.
IT JUST GETS OUT AND THEY MENTIONED, AND IT'S BEEN LIKE UBER EATS CONSTANTLY GOING TO, TO CERTAIN PLACE AND THEY KNOW IT.
EX RESIDENTS LIVING THERE TO GO BACK.
IN SOME CASES, DOMESTIC ABUSE VICTIMS GO BACK TO THEIR ABUSER AND THEN TELL 'EM WHERE THEY WERE, YOU KNOW? BUT IT DOESN'T STAY SECRET VERY LONG.
SO I, I'VE KIND OF DISCOUNTED THAT TO SOME DEGREE BECAUSE I THINK IT'S AN IMPOSSIBILITY TO ENFORCE.
I WOULD AGREE TOO, BECAUSE IT'S SO EASY TO FIND ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET AND, AND YOU CAN'T, AND ALL IT TAKES IS ONE PERSON TO GET ON FACEBOOK AND THERE YOU GO.
UM, BASED ON WHAT KE WAS TELLING US, UM, TRANSITION HOUSING INDIVIDUAL, AGAIN, THIS IS THE REASON, NOT TOO SPECIFIC, BUT I MEAN, SHE, WHAT SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT WAS NOT TRANSITION COUNSEL, BUT I GOT THE SENSE MORE OR LESS PERMANENT, AND I'M AWARE OF SOME IN OTHER LOCALITIES THAT DO THAT.
AND SHE WAS SPEAKING ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS YOU MENTIONED ON HERE.
YOU OCCURRED THOSE THINGS LIKE ALARMS AND THINGS TO PREVENT PEOPLE ABSCONDING.
SO I'M KIND OF CURIOUS AS TO WHAT OTHER LOCALITIES MIGHT HAVE AND THEIR LOCAL ORDINANCES ABOUT THESE TYPES OF RESIDENCES AS FAR AS REQUIREMENTS GO, IF THERE'S A-S-E-P-P AND HOW IT COMES ABOUT.
FIND OUT THERE'S A LOT OF THAT OUT THERE.
OR JUST ON THE INTERNET, JUST SOME RESEARCH.
AND THAT'S WHERE I PULLED THIS STUFF FROM.
IT'S FINDING THAT SOME FACILITIES HAVE, THAT SOME WERE REQUIRED TO DO IT BECAUSE OF EITHER STATE OR ORDINANCES THAT WENT ALONG WITH IT.
SO WE DON'T NECESSARILY MONITOR IT, BUT WE NEED TO BE A AWARE OF IT OR, UM, UH, THAT THOSE THINGS ARE REQUIREMENTS.
I BELIEVE IT'S TYPICALLY AN ORGANIZATION THAT WILL COME FORWARD AND SAY, VERSUS HOUSE, THIS IS HOW WE WANT TO USE IT.
THIS WHOLE PROPOSING IS WHAT DONE, WHAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE, WHAT WE DEALT WITH POSSIBLE.
[01:25:01]
WE TALKED ABOUT.BUT AGAIN, WE'RE LIMITED IN THE LAND USE CATEGORY, SO WE DON'T, CAN'T NECESSARILY DO THAT.
WE, WE CAN, I THINK WE CAN SAY THAT TO USE THIS IN THIS CAPACITY, YOU HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE STATE LAW AND THEN THE STATE LAW IS SUCH, BUT I DON'T THINK WE ENFORCE THAT.
IT'S JUST LOOKING AT OTHER CODE SECTIONS AND OTHER LOCALITIES JUST TO SEE KIND OF HOW THEY GO ABOUT ESTABLISHING THIS OR EVEN REVIEWING IT.
I MEAN, YOU MEAN PROVING IT? I I, I, I CAN'T SAY I CAN OFFER ONE.
CITY OF CHARLOTTE DEFINITION, SHELTER CARE MEANS A BUILDING OR PORTION THEREOF USE FOR THE PROVISION OF EMERGENCY OVERNIGHT SHELTER FOR HOMELESS, INDIGENT OR OTHER DISADVANTAGED PERSONS AND ASSOCIATED SERVICES SUCH AS CRISIS INTERVENTION, COUNSELING, SERVICE REFERRAL HOTLINE, AND SIMILAR SOCIAL SERVICE FUNCTIONS.
UM, I I I'M THINKING IT'S A SPECIAL USE IN THE R THREE, UH, ZONING DISTRICT.
AND, AND THAT'S WHAT I FOUND MOST OF THEM.
THESE TOWNS TEND TO PUSH THEM TO THE R THREES.
AND, AND AS FAR AS STATE CODE, UM, LOCALITIES MAY NOT REQUIRE SPECIAL USE PER PERMIT FOR CERTAIN RESIDENTIAL USES.
NOTHING HEREIN SHALL RESTRICT THE USE OF SPECIAL ACCESS.
YOU YEAH, I FAMILIAR WITH THAT.
SPECIAL USE, CONDITIONAL USE, UH, ON APPLICATION OF A PROPERTY OWNER FOR, UH, NUMBER FOUR, NON-RESIDENTIAL USES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO HOME BUSINESSES, HOME OCCU, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, UH, AND SHELTERS ESTABLISHED FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING HUMAN SERVICES TO THE OCCUPANTS THEREOF.
SO SUVS ARE ENABLED FOR THAT USE BY STATE LAW.
I ALSO, WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT KATIE WAS SAYING HERE, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE POTENTIAL DISTRICTS IN WHICH WE MIGHT, YOU KNOW, ADD THIS AS AN OPTION.
UM, I THINK SHE, SHE BROUGHT UP A REALLY GOOD POINT WITH THE BENEFIT OF SOME OF THESE PLACES BEING CLOSER TOGETHER THAN THEY WOULD BE OTHERWISE.
AND TO THAT THEN I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, R ONE FOR A LOT OF THIS DOESN'T MAKE SENSE NECESSARILY.
UM, IT'S, YOU KNOW, A DIFFERENT TYPE OF SITUATION.
UM, IT MAY BE SOMETHING AND, YOU KNOW, SIMILAR TO HOW A LOT OF OTHER LOCALITIES ARE GOING MORE TOWARDS R THREE, UM, MAYBE THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE WE CONSIDER IT TO BE, YOU KNOW, ONLY ALLOWED WITHIN R TWO, R THREE.
AND THAT, THAT WAS A KIND OF CONSIDER CONSIDERATION.
WHERE I HAVE FOUND IT, WHERE, I'M TRYING TO THINK, IT WAS R THEY DID HAVE R ONE OR R TWO.
THEY WERE REQUIRING LIKE NO MORE THAN ONE ON THE BLOCK.
THERE WAS A SEPARATION BETWEEN A MAXIMUM, A MINIMUM DISTANCE BETWEEN SOME, SOME LOCALES, UM, UH, BUT FOR, FOR THE LOWER NUMBER R, SO TO SPEAK, AND HAD RUN ACROSS THAT.
UH, SO THAT'S CURRENT ARE ARE WE GOING TO PURSUE HAVING, IF WE GO TO THE BROAD CATEGORIES, THEN WE HAVE TO THINK INSTEAD OF SPECIFICS ON THIS AND DELINEATING FOR EACH ONE IS ACCEPTABLE.
IF WE JUST GO TO THE BROAD DEFINITION, THEN, THEN WE, UM, MIGHT BE ELIMINATING OUR ONE RIGHT OFF THE BAT.
I THINK THAT IF WE'RE GOING UP ABROAD, THAT THAT ELIMINATING OUR ONE WOULD BE WISES.
DOES EVERYONE AGREE WITH THAT? YEAH, I'M FINE EITHER WAY.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? DON'T HAVE ANYTHING BECAUSE I ALSO THINK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO BE ACCEPTABLE TO THE NEIGHBORS THAT COME ACROSS WHEN I, WHEN YOU BROADEN THE CATEGORY, UH, UP THAT WIDE, EVEN THOUGH IT IS SPECIAL USE PERMIT AND, BUT, UH, BUT NO ONE HAS A MAGIC BALL TO KNOW WHO WILL APPROVE WHAT ON A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
WE'RE DOWN THE, DOWN THE LINE.
THE GOOD THING IS IT GIVES THE PUBLIC THE OPPORTUNITY, IT GIVES THE PUBLIC OPPORTUNITY EACH TIME TO WEIGH IN, WEIGH IN ON IT.
SO, UM, I, I'M HEARING WE'LL STEER THIS TOWARD R THREE, R TWO AND R THREE AT THIS POINT.
IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING? MM-HMM
SO TR PUT THIS INTO THE DEFINITION FOR A SINGLE CATEGORY.
PUT THE FIVE CATEGORIES, BLEND THEM INTO JUST A CATEGORY OF SPECIAL DESIGNATED ON HOUSING PURPOSE HOUSING LIMITED TO THE R TWO OR THREE IS ON HEARING, UH, LET'S SEE.
YOU HAVE A, I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD.
UM, IT WAS SECTION HERE ON RESTRICTIONS ON SERVICES PROVIDED.
UM, JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND, YOU'RE NOT, ARE YOU SUGGESTING THESE RESTRICTIONS OR ARE YOU JUST SAYING THAT THESE ARE,
[01:30:01]
IT'S A CONSIDERATION.AND WHAT THE FIRST PART OF THIS DOCUMENT WAS CONSIDERATIONS.
AND THEN LATER ON IT WAS KIND OF SOME, UM, SUGGESTING OF CODE CHANGES THEN FOLLOWED BY DEFINITIONS.
THAT'S THE WAY THIS DOCUMENT IS LAID IN.
AND SO WHY BASICALLY THIS WAS THE WHY I DID THE CODE THE WAY I DID IT, THE FIRST PART OF IT.
UM, AND, AND SO WHAT, WHAT I DID WANT TO ASK ON THE ZONING CONSIDERATIONS, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU THINK NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED OTHER THAN THE R TWO AND R THREE OF WHAT I HAVE LISTED ON THERE IS, IS THERE ANY OTHER CONSIDERATIONS YOU THINK WE OUGHT TAKE? SO YOU'RE JUST GONNA BE DOING THE NUMBERS 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
WITHOUT THE AA A DEFENSE WITHOUT, WE'LL BE ENCOMPASSED UNDER A SINGLE DEFINITION, I'LL GO BACK AND DO A SINGLE DEFINITION ENC COURT ENCOMPASSING ALL THOSE INSTEAD OF BREAKING IT OUT LIKE I DID.
UM, I MEAN, I I, ON THE PLANNING PART OF IT, OR THE ZONING PART OF IT, I THINK IT IT THAT BROAD CATEGORY, BUT WHEN YOU LIST THOSE, AT LEAST SOMETIMES WHEN YOU GO, LIKE THE STATE GOES VERY BROAD ON CERTAIN THINGS, IT, IT, IT OPENS A LOT UP FOR INTERPRETATION SOMETIMES, IN MY OPINION.
DO YOU IT, UM, SORRY, RESTATE THAT.
AND THAT IN THIS CASE, THAT COULD BE A GOOD THING.
IT'S IT, TO ME, IT FOCUS SHOULDN'T BE ON EXACTLY WHAT TYPE OF PERSON NEEDS THIS FACILITY.
AS LONG AS IT'S NOT A THREAT TO THE PUBLIC.
AND, AND, AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THIS IS BEING STEERED.
THAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT CHARLOTTESVILLE DID, WHAT I WAS ABOUT TO SAY.
THAT DEFINITION I THINK PROVIDED I THINK IS PERFECT FROM WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
THAT COULD BE A PIECE OF PAPER
I DON'T KNOW IF I ANSWERED THE QUESTION, BUT NO, I THINK, I THINK, I THINK SEE WHERE THIS IS STEERING AND THAT, THAT'S GOOD.
UM, I JUST HAD THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
I WASN'T GOING TO, UH, GO ON THAT.
THAT WAS JUST, AGAIN, JUST CONSIDERATION WHEN I WAS TRYING TO DO, UM, BUILDING DESIGN AND CAPACITY.
CERTAIN HOUSES ARE GONNA BE ACCEPTABLE IN CERTAIN WALLS FOR GROUP HOMES.
YOU KNOW, A THREE, UH, A THREE BEDROOM RANCH MAY NOT WORK VERY WELL AT ALL.
IF YOU COULD BE SITTING, YOU KNOW, EIGHT PEOPLE MAY BE, BUT OTHER CASES IT MIGHT BE GREAT.
YOU ARE SAYING HERE THAT IT'S UP TO THREE PER BED IF I EVER, THAT THE THREE PEOPLE PER BEDROOM WAS JUST A PROPOSED OH, BEDROOM.
OH, SORRY, I MISSED THE ROOM PART.
SO, BUT TO NO SEE 12 PER FACILITY IS, IS INTERESTING.
UM, I WONDER IF THAT WOULD COME INTO CONFLICT WITH OUR CURRENT CODE.
AND SO THIS IS THE PROPOSED, WE'RE WE'RE BUILDING A NEW CATEGORY YEAH.
SO IF, UH, AND THAT'S PART OF WHERE WE NEED INPUT FROM OUR TOWN EXPERTS TO SAY, NO, NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
NINE IS IT OR EIGHT IS Z, OR WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS.
UM, WITH THE GROUPS THAT WE'VE MET SO FAR, AND I FORGET WHAT THE PASTOR SAID WHEN WE WERE MEETING WITH HER, UM, DID SHE OR ANY OTHERS THAT YOU TALKED TO TALK ABOUT, UM, HOW MANY PEOPLE THEY TEND TO SERVE ANY ONE TIME, GENERALLY SPEAKING? WELL, WE, WE KNOW, UM, AND, AND IT DIFFERENTIATES BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN TOO.
WE KNOW THAT MORE, THERE'S SUBSTANTIALLY MORE MEN THAN WOMEN IN, IN, IN THESE PROCESSES WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU GROUP ALL THE CATEGORIES TOGETHER.
UM, UH, FOR GLORIA, WHAT GLORIA'S DOING IS SHE'S DEALS ON MASS.
AND, AND SO IT IS TOUGH TO EQUATE THAT TO THIS.
WELL, AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT I'M THINKING, AND THIS AGAIN GOES INTO THE, YOU KNOW, BROAD STROKE VERSUS SPECIFIC ASPECT OF THINGS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY WANT, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, 12 PEOPLE ALL IN THE SAME HOUSE IF THAT'S NOT GONNA BE A GOOD SITUATION.
I MEAN, EVEN KATIE HERE WAS SAYING LIKE, THE MAX YOU WANT FOR PEOPLE WITH SEVERE AUTISM IS SIX.
AND SO IDEALLY THE ORGANIZATION THAT'S RUNNING THE SHOW WILL, YOU KNOW, HAVE THAT MAXIMUM OF SIX FOR THEMSELVES.
BUT DO WE THEN ALLOW MORE OR, YOU KNOW, ARE, IS THERE A WAY FOR US TO 'EM, IF WE PUT 'EM ALL IN ONE BROAD CATEGORY, YEAH.
WE'RE GONNA LOSE THAT DIFFERENTIATION BY, BY DOING THAT.
[01:35:01]
WHERE WE WOULD BREAK DOWN LIMITS FOR EACH ONE.BUT, BUT WE GO TO SUP SO IT WOULD BE DISCUSSED PUBLICLY, BUT THEN IT WOULD BE OPEN FOR INTERPRETATION EACH AND EVERY TIME.
AND SO IT WOULD NOT, THAT WOULDN'T BE THE STANDARD WOULD BE WHATEVER NUMBER THAT WE WOULD DECIDE WAS MAXIMUM AND WAS AGREED THROUGH THE THING AS FAR AS I UNDERSTAND.
SO THAT WAS, I STRUGGLED WITH A LOT OF THAT, I'M SURE GOING, GOING THROUGH THIS.
AND THAT'S WHY I ENDED UP BREAKING THEM OUT.
I AM, UH, NOT JEALOUS AND YET VERY GRATEFUL FOR ALL THE WORK THAT YOU PUT INTO TOGETHER
UM, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS WHEN IT COMES TO OCCUPANCY OR, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S SAFE OR NOT SAFE IN, YOU KNOW, EMERGENCY OR CRISIS TYPE HOUSING? NOT SPECIFICALLY.
I CAN'T SAY THAT WE'VE NOT DEALT WITH THEM ANY MORE THAN WE WOULD ANY OTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE OUT CAUSING PROBLEMS OR CREATING ISSUES OR ANYTHING? OH, NO, NO.
I'M LOOKING AT FROM, I I WAS ALSO SURPRISING ABOUT THEIR OWN SAFETY.
I MEAN, YOU PUT, YOU KNOW, 24 PEOPLE IN A FOUR BEDROOM HOUSE, THAT'S A PROBLEM.
IT HAS, IT'S, IT'S ALMOST LIKE ONE PERSON PUT A ROOM, ALMOST ONE OR TWO PEOPLE PUT MOST.
AND AGAIN, IT TO, TO WHAT, UM, OUR SPEAKER SAID IS THAT HOW MANY CAN ONE PERSON HANDLE AS WE GROUP THEM ALL TOGETHER, WE HAVE TO COVER LONG TERM AND SHORT TERM IN, IN THESE DEFINITIONS.
NOW IT WOULD STILL, IT WOULD STILL LEAVE OPEN OTHER TYPE OF MORE WHERE I'LL CALL IT WAREHOUSING THOSE MUCH LARGER FACILITIES, BUT THEY WOULD FALL OUTSIDE OF THIS EFFORT.
WHAT IF IN OUR BROAD STROKE DEFINITION WE DO SPECIFY LONG-TERM AND SHORT TERM HOUSING WHERE WE SAY SHORT TERM IS A YEAR OR LESS AND LONG TERM IS CONSIDER OVER A YEAR THAT WHAT DO DEFINITION AND THEN THAT WAY WE CAN HAVE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE CODE, UM, DIFFERENTIATIONS OF WHAT WOULD BE OKAY OR REASONABLE FOR SHORT TERM VERSUS, UH, VERSUS LONG TERM.
BECAUSE I WANNA LOOK OUT FOR BOTH GROUPS AND THEIR, AND IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE BROAD PUT SLIGHTLY MORE SPECIFIC, I THINK THAT MIGHT BE A WAY TO WORK WITH IT.
I'LL, I'LL ADD THAT WITH THE DEFINITION.
I THINK SOME OF THE PROPOSED CODE WORDING MIGHT KIND OF BLUR THE LINES BETWEEN LAND USE AND OTHER THINGS.
WELL THE, THE CODE THAT WE PROPOSED WOULD HAVE TO BE ALL ENCOMPASSING.
IT BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I HAVE IN HERE NOW.
LOCAL CARBON MONOXIDE AROUND EXTINGUISH, THAT'S NOT, IT'S A CODE SUGGESTION.
I MEAN, I DON'T, COULD WE, UM, I MEAN, WELL MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN I, WE HAVEN'T, I HAVEN'T DONE SOMETHING LIKE THIS BEFORE, BUT COULD WE IN GOOD FAITH, GIVE A CODE FOR APPROVAL TO TOWN COUNCIL THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO ADD SEVERAL LINES TO, OR WOULD, WOULD ALL OF THAT SORT OF THING ALREADY BE COVERED IN HOUSING AND UH, OTHER SECTION
UH, THEY SPECIFIED ON THE, UH, SHORT TERM RENTAL.
UH, WHEN THE ACCOUNT COUNCIL ADOPTED THAT AS FAR AS THE AMENDMENT TO THE CODE FOR THE ORDINANCE, THEY SPECIFIED WHAT NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED, UH, FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTAL.
SO WE COULD INDEED PUT THESE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS AS, AS I, AS I UNDERSTAND IT.
I MEAN, ESSENTIALLY IF THEY, IF YOU HAVE AN EXISTING BUILDING, UH, AND YOU CHANGE THE USE OF IT, THE INTERIOR OF THE USE IS CHANGED BY THE BUILDING CODE, THEN, UH, WE SEND THAT TO THE COUNTY, THEY WOULD'VE TO DO WHATEVER UPGRADES.
LIKE I SAID, IT'S BASED ON THE BUILDING CODE.
UH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT THIS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME ZONING, YOU KNOW, IT HAS TO BE ZONING RELATED, BUT WHEN YOU DO A CHANGE OF USE FROM AN EXISTING STRUCTURE, WE'LL JUST SAY WHATEVER IT WAS PREVIOUSLY.
IF YOU DO AN UPGRADE TO A MULTI-FAMILY, SOME TYPE OF HOUSING THING, UH, WHEN THEY REDO THOSE UNITS OR ROOMS OR WHATEVER, THEY HAVE TO BE MEET THE NEW BUILDING CODE OR THE CURRENT BUILDING CODE THAT'S IN PLACE FOR THE UPGRADES OF THE BUILDING.
[01:40:01]
THAT, THAT IS, IT'S STAY TUNED.SO WHAT SUGGESTING, BECAUSE SOME OF THE COHORT IS GONNA CHANGE BASED ON GROUPING 'EM ALL TOGETHER AND WHAT I HAVE HERE.
SO I, I WON'T BELABOR THAT AT THIS POINT, BUT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO AND BE YOUR GUYS' PERMISSION IS I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND TRY TO PUT THIS INTO CODY'S THAT WE CAN ADDRESS, UM, THE, THE WORDING IF, IF THAT'S OKAY WITH EVERYONE TO PUT IT AS IF IT, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THE CLOSER THIS IS TO FINAL FOUR FINAL BEFORE I JUMP IN.
SO I THINK THIS IS ALL LIKE HERE, HERE'S ALL THE GREAT IDEAS.
LET'S GO FORWARD AND I THINK WE'RE GETTING PAST THE BROKEN CUTTING IN THE AIR.
I'D LIKE TO MAYBE JUST REFINE IT A LITTLE BIT, MAYBE ADD A LITTLE EXTRA REFERENCE, YOU KNOW, LIKE OTHER LOCALITIES, ORDINANCES AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT MIGHT APPLY TO OUR SPECIFIC SITUATIONS.
ARE THERE REFERENCES TO OTHER LOCAL CAPS? SO NO, NO.
MAYBE I WORDED THAT CORRECTLY.
LOOK AT OTHER OH YEAH, I'VE LOOKED AT, I'VE LOOKED AT OTHERS.
WHAT I HAVEN'T DONE IS I, THERE THERE'S CERTAIN SECTIONS OF STATE CODE THAT HAVE TO COMPLY WITH, I, I HAVE XS, RED MARKS AND STUFF BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.
AND I MIGHT ASK YOU ON, ON SOME OF THAT.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT, DO YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE A COPY OF THIS.
YOU CAN SEE I DO IN, IN THE, UM, PROPOSED CODE WORDING.
I, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ON WHAT, WHAT ARE THOSE REGULATIONS THAT WE SHOULD BE PROPOSED? I APPRECIATE AN ANSWER OR FILL THAT OUT.
SO I'M GONNA MAKE IT CLOSER TO A FINAL PRODUCT FOR REVIEW AND GET IT BEFORE OUR NEXT WORKING.
IN FACT, I'LL GET IT OUT TO YOU BEFORE OUR NEXT WORKING GROUP AND ANY EARLY COMMENTS WOULD BE SWELL
BUT NOT, I, I, I WOULD THINK THIS IS A WORTHWHILE EFFORT TO GO GO VERY WORTH.
I'M REFERRING TO MAKING IT A MEETING.
IT'S A VERY WORTHWHILE EFFORT AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DOING.
SO, AND LIKE I SAID, YOU HAVE A LOT OF OTHER INFORMATION I SENT OUT THERE.
REFER TO SOME OF THAT WITH THE QUESTIONS OF INDIVIDUAL GROUPS AND WHAT'S DIFFERENT BETWEEN, BETWEEN THEM.
BUT THAT'S, UM, BUT PART OF THAT NOW IS GOING BACK TO WHY THEY WERE MORE SPECIALIZED IN THE GROUPS, WHICH WE JUST DECIDED NOT TO DO.
I WON'T BELABOR THIS ANYMORE AND I, I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS TAKING I'LL, I'LL, I'LL JUST SAY THAT, UH, TODAY, UH, A POTENTIAL APPLICANT COME IN.
UH, SO OUR DEADLINE IS MONDAY AT FOUR 30.
UH, SO HIT BY THE LACK OF OUR CODE.
I GUESS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PUT IT UNDER THE LODGING HOUSE.
AGAIN, UM,
IT MAY OR MAY NOT FAIL UNDER THIS SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE IN HOUSING.
UM, BY OUR DEF BY YOUR NEW DEFINITION.
UH, SO JUST KEEP IN MIND WE THAT THEY GET THE APPLICATION SOUND LIKE THEY WILL GET AN APPLICATION IN BY MONDAY.
THAT'LL BE AT YOUR JUNE WORK SESSION.
UM, THIS STUFF SIMILAR TO THE OTHER LODGING HOUSES WE HAVE APPROVED HERE RECENTLY.
UH, BUT ANOTHER ONE HAS, THERE'S SUCH A NEED THAT JUST TELLS US THAT THERE'S A NEED IN THE COMMUNITY TO ADDRESS THIS.
WE NEED TO GET IT DONE AND ENROLLED INTO THE CODE AS FAST.
I KNOW FAST IS STILL THREE MONTHS AWAY.
I I TOLD 'EM THAT BASICALLY THEY HAVE IT SUBMITTED BY MONDAY AT FOUR 30.
THAT'S THE DEADLINE FOR THE JUNE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
AND WOULD EARLIEST WOULD GO TO TOWN COUNCIL.
AND THAT WOULD FIT IN IN THEIR TIMEFRAME, TRYING TO GET IT OPEN BY AUGUST.
UH, SO JUST MAKING, UH, RIGHT.
SO, AND THERE, AND THERE'S OTHER ISSUES I'D REALLY LOVE FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO ADDRESS, BUT I'LL SEND OUT EMAILS ON THAT.
ALSO JUST MENTIONING IS OTHER, IF YOU GUYS HAVE SUGGESTIONS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND OUT THERE OF WORKING TOWARD THAT OR THINGS THAT YOU THINK BE
WELL, ONE THING THAT, UM, HAS BEEN IN THE BACK OF MY MIND AND ONE OF THE APPLICATIONS REMINDED ME OF IT, UM, WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, SHORT TERM RENTALS, UM, I WOULD WANT US TO AT LEAST CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITY OF PUTTING RESTRICTIONS ON HOW FAR AWAY THE HOMEOWNER CAN LIVE FROM THE PROPERTY THAT THEY'RE APPLYING FOR.
UM, I KNOW THERE ARE OTHER LOCALITIES, I THINK IT'S YORK REQUIRES THEM TO BE NEXT DOOR.
UM, WHICH MAY BE A LITTLE EXTREME, BUT I THINK THERE'S GONNA BE SAID FOR THEM TO BE, YOU KNOW, WITHIN SOME REALM OF, WITHIN THE COMMUNITY IN TERMS OF THE CARE OF THE, THE HOME, THE PROPERTY, THE COMMUNITY THAT THAT IS, IS BEING SERVED.
AND THEN OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, FROM THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT SIDE, THEN ANYONE WHO'S RENTING THAT HOME IS THEN
[01:45:01]
PRODUCING FUNDS THAT WILL, YOU KNOW, DIRECTLY AFFECT OUR COMMUNITY AS WELL.UM, AS OPPOSED TO THEM, YOU KNOW, ESCAPING OUR TOWN AND COUNTY ENTIRELY, UH, AS WE CURRENTLY SEE IN SO MANY OF THESE APPLICATIONS.
SO, UH, THE HOMES THAT HAVE BEEN COMING THROUGH MY TIME ON HERE, THE BEST KEPT ONES TEND TO BE THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE AROUND HERE.
UM, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S, THERE'S SUCH TO EVERYTHING AND VARIETY SITUATIONS, BUT, UH, I THINK IT MIGHT BE WORTH AS WE'RE GOING THROUGH CODE TO HAVE US CONSIDER, WE HAVE THE DISCUSSION CERTAINLY IN THERE, ANYTHING IS OPEN FOR DISCUSSION GO THROUGH.
SO THE POINT IS SEND HIM AN EMAIL AND THINK ABOUT, WE DON'T WANNA TALK ABOUT IT'S NO, NO, I'M SORRY.
I'M NOT TRYING TO OPEN THE FLOOR TO FILIBUSTER.
AS JOHN POINTED OUT EARLIER, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A RATIONAL BASIS.
THE CONDITION HAS TO BE REASONABLE.
BUT AT THE, AT THE SAME TIME, WE DON'T WANT TO SUPPRESS IDEAS.
WE WANT TO LOOK AT ALL THE IDEAS.
IF THEY'RE DISCOUNTED, THEN FINE.
WELL, LET'S OFFICIALLY END THE MEETING SO THAT
AND, UH, THEN WE CAN TALK ONE ON ONE AFTER THIS.
WE DON'T NEED A MOTION TO GENERATE BIRTH SESSION, DO WE? DO WE? WELL, LET'S DO IT ANYWAY.
THAT WAY YOU'RE SAYING WE USUALLY DO.
THE PROBLEM IS IF SOMEBODY OWNED A PROPERTY HERE.