* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. STARTED. [00:00:01] YEAH. I AM GONNA CALL TO ORDER THE FRONT [Town Council Work Session on May 5, 2025.] RURAL TOWN COUNCIL REGULAR WORK SESSION FOR MONDAY, MAY 5TH TO ORDER. AND MS. PRESLEY, CAN WE DO A ROLL CALL? MAYOR COCKRELL HERE. VICE MAYOR VIAL HERE. COUNCILMAN DEMON KANE? HERE. COUNCILMAN INGRAM? HERE. COUNCILMAN RAPPAPORT? HERE. . HERE. HERE. UM, BELIEVE COUNCIL PAYNE HAS A MOTION. UM, YES. I, SO I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION FIRST TO THAT WE HAVE A CLOSED MEETING AT THE END OF OUR, UM, OPEN PUBLIC MEETING, UM, TO DISCUSS, CONSIDER, OR INTERVIEW, UH, PROSPECTIVE CANDIDATES FOR EMPLOYMENT ASSIGNMENT, APPOINTMENT PROMOTION, PERFORMANCE, TION, SALARIES, DISCIPLINING, OR RESIGNATION OF SPECIFIC PUBLIC OFFICERS, APPOINTINGS OR EMPLOYEES OF ANY PUBLIC BODY. MORE SPECIFICALLY, TOWN ATTORNEY. SECOND. A ROLL CALL. COUNCILMAN WOOD? YES. VICE MAYOR VIAL? YES. COUNCILMAN OT . COUNCIL ? YES. COUNCILMAN INGRAM? YES. COUNCILWOMAN D DEMON PAINT? YES. OKAY. MOVING ON TO OUR NUMBER TWO IS THE ATLANTIC UNION BANK PRESENTATION PERTAINING TO THE TOWN'S INVESTMENTS. GOOD EVENING. SO THE TOWN, UH, DID, UH, CARE BANKING SERVICES AGAIN LAST YEAR WITH ATLANTIC UNION BANK. WE'VE BEEN WITH A NUMBER OF YEARS. IT WAS ATLANTIC UNION, RAPPAHANNOCK, UM, UNION. I CAN'T REMEMBER ALL THE NAMES IN HONESTLY, BUT WE'VE BEEN WITH 'EM FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. UH, WE LIKE TO HAVE, UH, THE BANKING, UH, SERVICES COME BEFORE THE TOWN COUNCIL HERE EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE JUST TO GIVE YOU A PRESENTATION, LET YOU KNOW HOW THINGS ARE GOING, HOW THE MONEY'S BEING INVESTED, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. UH, SO WITH THAT, I HAVE THREE GENTLEMEN HERE FROM ATLANTIC UNION BANK. UH, KIND OF TURN IT OVER TO THEM. THEY CAN, UH, THEM INTRODUCE THEMSELVES. I SHOW YOU ONE FIRST THERE. SORRY. . WELL, FIRST OFF, THANKS FOR HAVING US. IT'S, UH, BEEN A FEW YEARS, UM, SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE. I, I VAGUELY REMEMBER THE ROOM BEING SET UP A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. MAYBE IT'S BEEN UPDATED, BUT, UM, I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE TOWN SINCE, UH, 2017. SO I THINK I'M THE MOST TENURED, WORKING WITH THE TOWN HERE THAT TIME PERIOD. UM, MY NAME IS MICHAEL, MICHAEL SNOW. I'M A PORTFOLIO MANAGER WITH THE ATLANTA COMMUNITY BANK. UH, WITH ME TODAY IS THE HEAD OF OUR DIRECTOR OF OUR FIXED INCOME SERVICES, UH, JOHN ERMAN. UH, ONE OF THE THINGS WHEN OUR CO REALLY STARTED TO BUILD OUT OUR TEAM, UM, JOHN WAS ONE THAT WAS RECRUITED TO COME ONTO THE BANK. HE HAD WORKED DIRECTLY AND MANAGED FUNDS FOR THE STATE OF VIRGINIA, THE TREASURY, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR HIS TENURE IN THE FINANCIAL SERVICES. UH, I THINK ABOUT A 15 YEAR WINDOW, UH, WORKING THERE WITH FED, UM, WITH THE TREASURY. SO, UH, WITH THAT SAID, I GUESS WE'LL TAKE A GENERAL OVERALL OVERVIEW OF THE PORTFOLIO, HOW IT'S INVESTED, AND, UM, AND THEN TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT SOME OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING AND HOW THAT MAY INCORPORATE WITH THE TOWN. SO THE, UH, MY NAME IS JOHN KERMAN AND, UM, SO I JOINED ATLANTIC UNION IN THE SUMMER OF 23, AND I'VE WORKED WITH MIKE SINCE THEN. UH, MANAGING THE TOWN'S, UH, ACCOUNTS AS WELL AS OTHER, OTHER NINE OTHER OR TOTAL OF NINE MUNICIPALITIES, UH, THAT WE MANAGE MONEY FOR IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA. AND THAT'S ABOUT JUST UNDER $200 MILLION. FEDERAL ASSETS, UM, ENTITIES. THIS STATEMENT IS JUST A GENERAL STATEMENT THAT ALL THE ACCOUNTS, ACCOUNTS ARE MANAGED, UM, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CREDIT VIRGINIA, THE INVESTMENT PUBLIC FUNDS ACT, YOUR INVESTMENT POLICIES, ALL FUNDS ARE INVESTED AT ALL TIMES, EARNING COMPETITIVE RATE OF RETURN. UM, AND MOVE ON FROM THERE. SO THERE ARE, THE TOWN HAS, UM, TWO ACCOUNTS, A LARGER OF WHICH, UM, THE, UH, AGENCY ACCOUNT, UH, OVER THE PAST YEAR ENDING MARCH 31ST, UH, EARNED 4.85% NET OF FEES. AND AS OF MARCH 31ST, THE YIELD TO MATURITY OF THE PORTFOLIO WAS 4.32%. UH, THE SMALLER, UH, ACCOUNT, THE ELECTRIC ACCOUNT ABOUT $1.7 MILLION. UH, THE RATE OF RETURN OVER THE PAST 12 MONTHS, UH, WAS SLIGHTLY HIGHER [00:05:01] BECAUSE THE AVERAGE MATURITY WAS INCREMENTALLY LONGER AND INTEREST RATES DECLINED OVER THE PAST YEAR. UM, THE AVERAGE MATURITY IS LONGER AND THE YIELD MATURITY IS LOWER. 'CAUSE RIGHT NOW, LONGER TERM INTEREST RATES OUT TO FIVE YEARS HAVE A LOWER YIELD THAN OVERNIGHT INTEREST RATES. SO IT'S A INVERTED YIELD CURVE. THE MARKET EXPECTS INTEREST RATES WILL BE GOING DOWN IN THE NEAR TERM. UH, WE'VE BEEN IN THAT ENVIRONMENT FOR SEVERAL YEARS. UH, THE AVERAGE CREDIT QUALITY OF BOTH PORTFOLIOS IS SIMILAR. THAT'S MOSTLY A FUNCTION OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA. UM, SO THE PORTFOLIOS ARE INVESTED IN US TREASURIES, US AGENCIES, UM, HIGH QUALITY BANK CDS, COMMERCIAL PAPER, AND TAXABLE VIRGINIA MUNICIPAL BONDS. UH, AND YOU CAN SEE THE, UH, MAKEUP OF THE PORTFOLIOS HERE. UM, THIS IS THE, UH, AGENCY ACCOUNT LARGER. UM, IT IS DIVERSIFIED. THE LARGEST IS, UH, THE BOTTOM, THE MONEY MARKET BUCKET. UM, THAT INCLUDES, UH, MONEY MARKET AND COMMERCIAL PAPER. UM, IT'S THE LARGEST, THE CASH LINE IS NOT CASH. THAT IS BANK CDS, THE SYSTEM THAT IS CASH. UM, AND SO IT'S DIVERSIFIED BY ISSUER AND BY TYPES OF SECURITIES. UM, THE ELECTRIC ACCOUNT, YOU CAN SEE HERE, MORE IS INVESTED IN FIXED INCOME BUCKET, WHICH IS LONGER TERM BONDS. UM, THOSE TAXABLE MUNICIPALS, UH, AGENCIES. AND THEN SMALLER PORTION. THESE RATING SPLIT IS VERY SIMILAR BETWEEN THE TWO ACCOUNTS. UH, US TREASURIES IN US AGENCIES ARE ALL RATED AA PLUS, UM, SP DOWNGRADED THE US IN 11 AND MITCH MORE RECENTLY. UH, SO YOU'RE THINKING WHY IS THE PORTFOLIO NOT AAA? BECAUSE THE US IS NOT AA I HAVE A QUESTION. YES. UM, SMALL QUESTION. THE, THE TOTAL ENDING VALUE FROM THE ONE THAT'S THE FRONT RENTAL ACCOUNT SAYS 34 2, 2 8, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. BUT ON THE FIRST SCREEN IT WAS CLOSE THROUGH LIKE 35 MILLION. I'M JUST, IT'S A DIFFERENCE. LIKE SEVEN 70, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. DID YOU EXPLAIN THAT AND I DISMISSED IT? NO, I DID NOT. OKAY. . SO THE DIFFERENCE IS THE WAY THAT THE, UH, REPORTS ARE GENERATED. OKAY. UH, SO THIS AMOUNT DID NOT INCLUDE ACCRUED INCOME. OKAY. SO, UM, IF THERE IS ACCRUED INCOME ON A BOND OR ON TREASURY BILLS OR COMMERCIAL PAPER THAT ARE PURCHASED AT A DISCOUNT, SAY 98 CENTS, AND THEN MATURE AT A DOLLAR, ANY OF THAT ACCRUAL OVER TIME IS NOT SHOWING UP HERE, BUT ON THE FRONT, FRONT PAGE WHERE IT GIVES THE MARKET VALUE, YEAH. THAT INCLUDES EVERYTHING. OKAY. SO GOT, AS OF MARCH 31ST, WE SOLD EVERY BOND. THAT'S THE MARKET VALUE IS WHAT YOU WOULD GET BACK. THIS IS JUST THE, UH, PRINCIPLE. OKAY. SO IF YOU LOOK IN OUR FINANCIALS, YOU'LL SEE UNREALIZED GAINS AND LOSSES, AND THAT'LL BE THE LINE ITEM THAT THEY'LL SHOW UP UNDER. OKAY. SO WE'RE ONLY WHEN WE'RE, WHEN WE'RE BOOKING IT, WE DO BOOK BOTH LINE ITEMS, BUT WE JUST HAVE TO SHOW IT UNDER DIFFERENT LINES. THERE'S 700,000 YES. DIFFERENCE. OKAY. THANK YOU. BUT, BUT THAT'S A LOT OF ACCRUED INCOME, RIGHT? RIGHT, RIGHT. YES. YES. SO, UM, AND THEN THIS, UM, CHART IS JUST, UH, A SHORT TO YOUR HISTORY SHOWING THAT, UM, THE, THE TOTAL ACCOUNTS, THE TWO ACCOUNTS ARE INCREASING, UM, AND IT DOES ADD UP TO MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. UM, IN, IN INTEREST FISCAL YEAR TO DATE, THE TWO ACCOUNTS ARE UP 3.71%, UH, AND ANNUALIZED. SO IF WE CONTINUE THAT RATE FOR THE FULL YEAR IS ALMOST 5%, UM, WHICH IS VERY GOOD. WHICH IS HIGHER THAN OVERNIGHT RATES. AVERAGE OF OVERNIGHT RATES. UM, AND WHAT MAYBE IT'S MIGHT BE MORE INTERESTING IS OUR OUTLOOK. UM, AND SO OUR OUTLOOK IS, UH, FOR THIS, FOR [00:10:01] YOUR ACCOUNT AND FOR ANY OTHER VIRGINIA, UH, MUNICIPAL ACCOUNT IS VERY SHORT. SO FOCUSED ON FED AND FED, UH, HAS BEEN CUTTING INTEREST RATES OVER THE PAST YEAR, UM, BECAUSE INFLATION HAS GONE DOWN. SO INFLATION WAS VERY HIGH, UH, A FEW YEARS AGO. NO GO, UH, INFLATION HAS BEEN SLOWING. THE FED HAS BEEN CUTTING INTEREST RATES. EMPLOYMENT IS STILL STRONG BASED ON BACKWARDS LOOKING NUMBERS, UM, BECAUSE EMPLOYMENT IS STILL OKAY AND INFLATION IS IMPROVING. THE FED HAS BEEN CUTTING RATES, BUT THEY'RE NOT CUTTING RATES RIGHT NOW. AND SO FAR THIS YEAR, BECAUSE INFLATION IS HIGHER THAN THEY WOULD LIKE IT TO BE, WE WOULD LIKE INFLATION TO BE 2% AND WE'RE MORE IN THE KIND OF HIGH TWOS. UM, AND THEN THERE'S A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY RIGHT NOW WITH, UH, ECONOMIC POLICIES TRADE. UH, WHEN THERE'S UNCERTAINTY, THE FED DOES WHAT IT DOES BEST, WHICH IS NOTHING. AND SO THEY'RE WAITING AND, UM, WAITING. UH, SO INTEREST, LONGER TERM INTEREST RATES HAVE GONE UP, SO LIKE 30 YEAR INTEREST RATES, BUT WE WOULD NEVER BUY A 30 YEAR BOND FOR THE TOWN OF ROYAL. SO IT REALLY IS NOT TOO IMPORTANT FOR YOUR PORTFOLIO. BUT LONGER TERM INTEREST RATES HAVE GONE UP ZERO TO FIVE YEARS, WHICH MIGHT NOT REALLY BE ABLE TO SEE, BUT HERE'S FIVE YEARS. AND SO ONE YEAR THERE'S NO CHANGE, LESS THAN A YEAR HAS GONE DOWN, AND THEN ONE TO FIVE YEARS UP SLIGHTLY, AND THEN UP MORE, 10, 20, 30 YEARS. BUT IF INTEREST RATES ARE STABLE, UM, THEN YOUR PORTFOLIO WILL GENERALLY EARN THE YIELD TO MATURITY. SO RIGHT NOW IT'S ABOUT 4.3%. SO WE WOULD EXPECT OVER THE NEXT YEAR, IF NOTHING HAPPENS, YOU'RE IN 4.3%, DOWN FROM ALMOST 5% PRIOR 12 MONTHS. THE MARKET IS EXPECTING RATE CUTS, WHICH IS WHY LONGER TERM INTEREST RATES ARE LOWER THAN OVERNIGHT INTEREST RATES. UH, OUR VIEW IS THAT, UM, THE MARKET IS A LITTLE BIT TOO BEARISH. WE DON'T THINK THE FUTURE WILL BE AS GLOOMY AS SOME PEOPLE THINK. UM, AND THAT IS WHY, YOU KNOW, THE PORTFOLIOS HAVE MORE ZERO TO ONE YEAR BONDS. UH, IF, IF THE YIELDS WERE UPWARD SLOPING, IF YOU WERE REALLY BEING PAID TO LOCK UP YOUR MONEY FOR LONGER, WE WOULD PROBABLY EXTEND THE PORTFOLIOS MORE, UH, AND LOCK IN, UM, RATES. WE DID A LITTLE BIT OF THAT LAST FALL WHEN RATES WERE OVER 5%. NOW WE'RE IN THE FOURS, OR PERHAPS IN THE THREES LESS EXCITING TO DO THAT. UM, IF THERE NO OTHER QUESTIONS, THE I APPLAUD YOU FOR, BECAUSE I CAN TELL YOU'RE A NUMBERS GUY AND YOU'RE SUPER SMART AND YOU'RE TRYING TO BRING IT DOWN AT LEAST TO MY LEVEL ANYWAY. SO, UM, I THINK YOU'RE YOU'RE MAKING ENOUGH SENSE FOR ME, SO I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU, UH, TO BEING ABLE TO. DO YOU EXPECT WITH THE TARIFFS, DO YOU EXPECT IF THE COUNTRY DOES GO TOWARD A RECESSION ON THE INFLATION, INFLATION WILL GO, WILL GO OFF? I THINK IF, IF WE GO , I THINK IF THERE'S A RECESSION, I THINK THAT IF THERE'S INFLATION, IT, THERE MIGHT BE INFLATION KIND OF AT THE BEGINNING. BUT THEN I THINK IF THERE'S A RECESSION, PEOPLE BUYING FEWER THINGS, FEWER PEOPLE BEING EMPLOYED WILL OUTWEIGH THOSE UPWARD PRICE PRESSURES. AND I THINK INFLATION WILL NOT SPIKE. AND I THINK CONSUMERS GET, THEY HOLD ONTO THEIR PURSE A LITTLE TIGHTER WHEN TIMES GET TOUGHER. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT STOPS THE STIMULUS. THE, SO TO JOHN'S POINT, YES, HE MAY SEE A SHORT TERM SPIKE IN PRICING, BUT YOU'LL START TO SEE THAT RESOLVE, YOU KNOW, EVOLVE DOWNWARD. YEAH. NOT [00:15:01] A, NOT LIKE, UM, A TRANSITORY INFLATION THAT WAS DURING, LIKE, RIGHT AFTER THE PANDEMIC, UM, THAT WAS, OH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT PRODUCING ENOUGH RIGHT NOW TO MEET DEMAND AND EVERYBODY HAD A LOT OF STIMULUS DOLLARS THAT THEY WERE ALL SPENDING, UH, IN A, IN A RECESSION. I THINK THERE MIGHT BE PRICES GO UP IN THE REAL NEAR TERM IF THERE'S A, LIKE A, A, A TARIFF SURCHARGE, UM, OR, OR THERE, YOU KNOW, FEWER, FEWER FOREIGN PRODUCE LIKE AVOCADOS FROM MEXICO ARE NOW MORE EXPENSIVE. UM, BUT EVENTUALLY PEOPLE START STOP EATING AS MANY, OR EGGS GET REALLY EXPENSIVE AND YOU SAY, WELL, THE TOWN WASNT MEXICAN CHICKENS. , THIS IS VERY UNCERTAIN. RIGHT. COULD DEFINITELY BE WRONG. SIX, SO MUCH CHICKEN ANSWER HONOR'S A JOKE, JUST TRYING TO FIGHT INFLATION HERE LOCALLY. BUT YOU GOT ALL THE ANSWERS. I LIKE BRUCE IS ASKING THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION, RIGHT? IF YOU, IF ONLY WE CAN PREDICT, RIGHT? YEAH. I JUST, UH, THE FED ISN'T INTERESTED IN, IN CUTTING INTEREST RATES RIGHT NOW. NOT RIGHT NOW, NO, NOT RIGHT NOW. NO. BUT, BUT THEY'RE NOT CUTTING THEM RIGHT NOW, SO THAT GIVES THEM MORE ROOM TO CUT THEM IF THERE IS A RECESSION. AND SO I THINK IF THERE IS A RECESSION, THEN THE FED WILL CUT INTEREST RATES TO 2%. YOU KNOW, I THINK THEY'LL REALLY CUT 'EM A LOT TO TRY TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY. AND, AND, UH, SO THE, THE NEXT ITEM IS, UM, AN INITIATIVE THE BANK IS WORKING ON, UH, IS CALLED THE VIRGINIA MUNICIPAL INVESTMENT TRUST. UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, I, AT THE STATE TREASURER, I MANAGE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT INVESTMENT POOL, WHICH IS A, UH, MONEY MARKET LIKE VEHICLE, UH, FUND FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN VIRGINIA, UM, COUNTY CITIES, TOWNS, AUTHORITIES. UM, IN THAT, UH, I WORKED FOR THE TREASURER FOR 10 YEARS, AND I RAN THE FUND. IT GREW FROM $4 BILLION WHEN I STARTED TO $12 BILLION WHEN I LEFT. IT WAS A VERY LARGE, UM, BEING ABLE TO WORK AT ATLANTIC UNION BANK. UH, UH, WE WERE WORKED WITH SEVERAL OF OUR PARTNERS, UH, TWO OF WHOM THE CITY OF DANVILLE AND HENRY COUNTY FORMED THE TRUST UNDER, UH, THE JOINT EXERCISE OF POWERS ACT. UM, IT, IT, THE TRUST WILL CREATE, UH, POOLED VEHICLES THAT ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT TO HELP EARN HIGHER RATE OF RETURN FOR LIQUID SHORT TERM INVESTMENTS. SO, UM, THIS, THESE, UH, FUND, THE FUND IS OVERSEEN BY A BOARD OF PARTICIPANTS. UM, IT IS NOT A BANK PRODUCT. AND SO ATLANTIC UNION BANK CREATED A SUBSIDIARY CALLED ATLANTIC UNION MUNICIPAL ADVISORS TO PROVIDE ADVICE TO THIS TRUST AND TO OTHER MUNICIPALITIES. UM, FOUR TRUSTEES RIGHT NOW HAS, UH, THREE MEMBERS, DANVILLE, HENRY COUNTY, ALLEGHENY COUNTY, UH, FAIRFAX IS WORKING THROUGH AN ORDINANCE PROCESS AND WILL JOIN THE BOARD. UH, MANJU GU IS A FORMER STATE TREASURER, AND SHE IS A, UH, EXECUTIVE CHAIR OF THE BOARD AND IS NON-VOTING. UM, BUT SHE HAS A LOT OF EXPERIENCE OVERSEEING POOLED VEHICLES AND ON STATEWIDE BOARDS. UM, SO WHAT IS IT SPECIFICALLY? WE'RE GOING TO LAUNCH A POOL AND ENHANCE CASH POOL ON JULY 1ST, WHICH IS A NEW FISCAL YEAR, AND IT WILL OFFER, UM, NEXT DAY. SO BASICALLY A VERY LIQUID POOL, UH, WITH A HIGHER YIELD THAN OTHER OPTIONS. UM, BY POOLING MONIES TOGETHER, UH, TOWN, OTHER PARTICIPANTS, UH, CAN BENEFIT FROM THE ECONOMIES OF SCALE OF A, OF A LARGE POOL. UM, MONEY CAN COME IN AND NOW VERY QUICKLY AT A $1 SHARE PRICE. AND BECAUSE IT'S WITHIN THE POOL STRUCTURE, THE AVERAGE YIELD IS HIGHER THAN WHAT ANY ONE PARTICIPANT ON THEIR [00:20:01] OWN COULD EARN WITH THE SAME LIQUIDITY CHARACTERISTICS. SO BEING ABLE TO GET YOUR MONEY IN AND OUT, UM, AT A $1 SHARE PRICE, THE FUND, UH, WILL BE RATED AAA, UH, BY FITCH RATINGS, AND THEN THE, THE TRUST STRUCTURE, UM, ALLOWS TO, UH, CREATE OTHER POOLS TO MEET OTHER, UH, CASH MANAGEMENT NEEDS. RIGHT NOW WE'RE PLANNING ONE MORE POOL, UH, AND THEN, UM, THE LAST SEPARATELY MANAGED ACCOUNTS. THE TOWN ALREADY HAS THAT. UM, AND SO THE TOWN'S MANAGEMENT FEE, UM, WAS REDUCED ABOUT A YEAR AGO. UH, AS WE LOWERED FEES FOR ALL MUNICIPAL ACCOUNTS AND WITHIN THE TRUST, UH, WE'RE PROVIDING THAT SAME FEE STRUCTURE, UM, TO OTHER PARTICIPANTS, OTHER, UH, ENTITIES WHO MAY NOT OTHERWISE THINK OF OR UTILIZE INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT IN THIS WAY. UM, AND THAT'S IT. ANY QUESTIONS? MAYBE A LOT. I UNDERSTAND. ANY QUESTIONS? NO, NO. LOOKS LIKE YOU. YEAH. THANK YOU MUCH. MEET YOU. SEE YOU PERSON. YEAH, SO, SO THESE, UH, WHEN YOU GET TO PAGE 17, THESE ARE ALL OUR HOLDING THAT HOW, UH, MOST LIKELY, WELL, WE HAVE A, OUR INVESTMENTS, UH, ARE BROKEN UP INTO, UM, UH, DIFFERENT BONDS AND WHATNOT. SO WE HAVE DIFFERENT THINGS CAN, UH, DO AT DIFFERENT TIMES. SO IF WE NEEDED TO ACCESS THE MONEY, WE WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO IT. JUST A SIMPLE EMAIL OR PHONE CALL FROM ME, YOU KNOW, HEY, WE GOTTA NEED SOME MONEY COMING UP HERE SOON. JUST, YOU KNOW, HOLD OFF ON REINVESTING. UM, OUR MONEY DOES GO INTO A SWEEP ACCOUNT EVERY NIGHT, UH, TO EARN INTEREST OVERNIGHT. UH, WE ALSO HAVE A FEW CDS, UM, YOU KNOW, JUST AS A, UH, AS A RESERVE, UH, THE ELECTRIC, UH, COMPONENT THAT YOU SEE THERE, UH, THAT IS, UH, FOR OBVIOUSLY THE ELECTRIC FUND, BUT THAT'S PART OF OUR, UM, OUR PRO UH, PORTFOLIO NEEDS FOR PURCHASING POWER. UH, WE'RE REQUIRED TO KEEP THAT IN A SEPARATE FUND AWAY FROM THE OTHER, UH, ENTERPRISE FUNDS. UH, THE 34, 30 5 MILLION THERE THAT YOU SEE, UH, THAT IS ALL THE FUNDS, INCLUDING SOME ELECTRIC IN THERE AS WELL. THAT $1.7 MILLION IS JUST FOR OUR, UH, PURCHASE POWER. WE'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE THAT SET ASIDE. DID I ANSWER THE QUESTION OR DID I GET OFF? KINDA, NO, I, I, I WAS JUST LOOKING AT LIKE THE NAMES OF THINGS. MM-HMM. AND I WAS LIKE, SO DOES THAT MEAN LIKE WE, WE LIKE FEDERAL FARM CREDIT BOOKS, OR VIRGINIA PORT AUTHORITY COMMONWEALTH, OR, YOU KNOW, I, THAT'S ALL, I JUST WAS KIND INTERESTING. WHICH INVESTMENT, WHICH INVESTMENTS WE HAVE. I SEE UNITED STATES TREASURY BILLS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. JP MORGAN. I, I JUST WAS, THAT'S ALL. YES, IT IS INDEED. THEY'RE ALL LIKE RAVO, UH, RATING. THAT'S WHAT WE PAY THOSE GUYS FOR RIGHT. TO, TO KNOW WHAT TO YES. INVEST. THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT. AND THEY'VE DONE VERY WELL FOR US. YEAH. UM, VERY WELL FOR US. THE, UH, THERE'S SOME OTHER MUNICIPALITIES COMING ONLINE. UM, THEY'VE BUILT THIS TO COMPETE. UH, THE EVENT THAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT THERE, THEY BUILT THAT TO COMPETE WITH THE, UM, UH, THE V UH, THE VIRGINIA, UH, GOVERNMENT GOVERNMENTAL INVESTING POOL, UH, B-G-L-Y-P. UM, AND, UH, SO FAR OUR INVESTMENTS, UH, HAVE BEEN COMPETITIVE, IF NOT MAKING A LITTLE BIT MORE, UH, THAN THE POOL. UH, SO, UH, I'M KIND OF INTERESTED TO SEE WHERE, YOU KNOW, HOW THIS POOL, UH, SHOULD HAVE ASKED THIS QUESTION TO THEM. UM, WHAT ARE THEIR MANAGEMENT FEES? SO IT'S, UH, ACTUALLY VERY MINIMAL FOR US. AND I DON'T KNOW IT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. IT'S, UH, UH, THEY CUT THEM DRAMATICALLY FOR US, UH, DURING THIS LAST SOLICITATION PROCESS. I DON'T REMEMBER 'EM OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, BUT I CAN GET THOSE TO YOU. UM, APPARENTLY, SO A YEAR AGO THEY LOWERED THEM, BUT A BUNCH OF OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THEY SAID THEY DID AS WELL. YES, YES. MM-HMM . SO THAT WAS WHEN THEY WERE, SAY, SOLICITING, LIKE WHEN WE WERE BASICALLY LIKE RE-UPPING WITH THEM. IS THAT THE, WELL, WE WENT OUT FOR FULL PROCUREMENT. WE INTERVIEWED [00:25:01] FOR FOUR BANKS. I THINK WE ACTUALLY SAT DOWN AND INTERVIEWED WITH THEM. UM, UH, AND, UH, THEY COME OUT FRONT RUNNER BY FAR FOR US. UM, I BELIEVE WARREN COUNTY IS STILL WITH THEM. THEY HAVE SOME OTHER MUNICIPALITIES COMING ON LINE WITH THEM TOO. THEY'RE BECOMING A, UH, A TOP, UH, CONTENDER FOR THE, UH, LOCALITIES IN VIRGINIA. HOW LONG HAVE WE BEEN WITH THEM? UH, DIDN'T HE SAY ROUGHLY A LITTLE OVER, UH, 15 YEARS? SEVEN, UH, WE'VE BEEN 15 YEARS LAST JULY, SO 16 ROUGHLY. UM, SEE, WE'VE BEEN, UH, WITH THEM, BUT WE'VE, UH, WE'VE GONE THROUGH THE PROPER PROCUREMENT CHANNELS, UH, EVERY FIVE YEARS AS WE'RE REQUIRED TO. UM, AND, UH, VIRGINIA DID CHANGE THEIR, UH, WHAT WE CAN INVEST IN FOR MUNICIPALITIES THERE A FEW YEARS AGO. SO WE HAD TO, UH, DO SOME ADJUSTMENTS THERE. BUT WE'VE BEEN WITH THEM FOR 15 YEARS AND WE'RE MAKING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, OUR RATES ARE COMING BACK, WE'RE PROBABLY A GOOD SUCCESS STORY FOR THEM AS THEY OH, ABSOLUTELY. OTHER PEOPLE ON TIME. ABSOLUTELY. AND IT GOES WITH THE ECONOMY, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WE'VE, WE'VE BEEN UPS AND DOWNS OBVIOUSLY. UH, BUT UH, OVERALL I'VE DONE VERY GOOD. YES, YES. VERY MUCH SO. ALRIGHT, I, NUMBER THREE IS ALSO MR. WILSON F 5 25 26 PROPOSED BUDGET. ADDITIONAL DISCUSSION WITH THESE AMENDMENTS. CHAPTER 1 34, STEERING WATER RATES AND WITNESS AMENDMENT TO CHAPTER 12 DASH TWO PUBLIC WORKS FEES FOR INCREASED UP TANK WASTE. AND I GOT A FEW THINGS GOING ON THERE. SO WE'LL START OUT, UH, UH, WITH THE ADDITIONAL BUDGET DISCUSSION. UH, SO STAFF, UH, RECOMMENDED TO TRANSFER THE $65,820 THAT'S IN THE PROPOSED TOURISM DEPARTMENTAL BUDGET, UM, AND TRANSFER THAT OVER TO THE TOWN ENGINEER DEPARTMENT. SO TO ALLOW, UH, THE TOWN TO OBTAIN, UH, AN ENGINEER. UM, THE APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE THAT IS WRITTEN UP DOES INCLUDE THAT, UH, CHANGE. UH, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THE, UH, FROM THE PROPOSED BUDGET OVER TO THE APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE, UH, MONEY FUNDS WERE DEDUCTED FROM THE TOURISM DEPARTMENT AND ADDED TO THE TOWN ENGINEERING, OR ACTUALLY THE GENERAL ADMINISTRATION IS WHAT IT'S UNDER FROM THE APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE. UM, WITH THAT, AT THIS POINT, I'M JUST KIND OF OPEN IT UP TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, UH, ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION? YES, SIR. PJ, UNDER THAT, IF, UH, WE'RE GOING TO FUND THE TOWN ENGINEER, I WOULD EXPECT THAT PERSON TO HAVE IMPACT ON AT LEAST A COUPLE OF OUR ENTERPRISES. ARE WE FUNDING IT SOLELY OUT OF OUR, UH, GENERAL FUNDS, OR ARE WE GOING TO BREAK OUT PART OF THE SOUTH, MUCH LIKE AT LOADER THAT YOU'RE BUYING A LITTLE PIECE FROM HERE? HOW ARE WE DOING? SO, UM, THE THOUGHT PROCESS IS THIS IS GONNA ALLOW US TO COME UP WITH THE, UH, JOB DESCRIPTION FOR THE, UH, TOWN ENGINEER, THIS BUDGET CYCLE. UH, IT MAY BE THAT WE GET TOWN ENGINEER FOR SIX MONTHS, MIGHT BE WE, UH, WE, UH, USE SOME OTHER FUNDS WITH OTHER, OTHER DEPARTMENTS TO BRING THAT TOGETHER. UM, BUT MOVING FORWARD, YES, IT WILL BE DIVVIED UP AMONGST THE ENTERPRISE FUNDS BASED ON THE NEED ASSOCIATED WITH IT. IT'LL BE DONE THROUGH THE TRANSFERS LIKE WE DID THE TOWN MANAGER, FINANCE DEPARTMENT, UH, ALL THOSE GOOD THINGS. UH, THAT FORMULA IS BROKEN UP IN THE BACK OF THE BUDGET, UH, BUT AS WE MOVE FORWARD AND SEE WHAT THAT JOB DESCRIPTION ACTUALLY IS, YES, IT WILL INDEED BE BROKEN UP IN THE ENTERPRISE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NO, WELL, I I, I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. I, I UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF THE TOWN ENGINEER AND, AND I THINK THIS IS THE RIGHT MOVE. UM, I WILL SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, TOURISM IS IMPORTANT AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE PROBABLY NEED TO ADDRESS IN THE FUTURE. I MEAN, ANY BUSINESS, AND I LOOK AT, I LOOK AT THE MUNICIPALITY AS A BUSINESS IN A SENSE, AND, YOU KNOW, TOURISM HAS A, HAS A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENT IMPACTS AMONGST THE TOWN. AND, UH, UM, I THINK JUST OVER THE YEARS, IT'S NOT JUST THIS YEAR, IT'S NOT JUST THE YEAR BEFORE, BUT WE'VE KIND OF BEEN A LITTLE LEAN ON, UH, ON BUDGETING AND TOURISM. I THINK, UH, A GOOD RULE OF THUMB FOR, FOR A, A COMPANY IS ABOUT 10% OF YOUR, YOUR, YOUR REVENUE. OF COURSE, I DON'T EXPECT 10%, BUT WE'VE BEEN AVERAGING SOMEWHERE AROUND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD A FEW SPIKES BACK IN 23 AND 22. BUT IN GENERAL, OUR, OUR, UH, INVESTMENT IN TOURISM IS ABOUT TWO, 2% OF [00:30:01] OUR REVENUES ARE, ARE YOU EQUATING, UM, THE 10%, ARE YOU EQUATING THAT WITH MARKETING? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE LIKE IN A BUSINESS? BECAUSE THEN IT BE, WELL, THAT'S JUST NOT A BUSINESS. IT, IT, IT, YOU'RE SELLING YOUR, YOU, YOU'RE SELLING YOUR TOWN. AND IT, IT HAS IMPACTS ON THE BUSINESSES DOWNTOWN, ALL OVER TOWN. BECAUSE THE MORE THAT YOU GET THE WORD OUT THERE, THE MORE LIKELY YOU'RE GOING TO FIND THAT, THAT YOU'RE HAVING MORE VISITORS COMING IN AND SPENDING MONEY IN YOUR TOWN. AND THAT CAN HAVE BIG IMPACTS ON OUR TAX REVENUE. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT THE, SO, AND IT TAKES IT OFF THE BURDEN. WELL, SO I WAS GONNA SAY, HOLD ON. SO, SO THAT WHEN WE WERE TALKING, I KNOW WHAT YOU WERE THINKING WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT MONEY AND THAT PIECE OF THE BUDGET, IF YOU REMEMBER, IT WAS ABOUT A DIFFERENT, IT WAS ABOUT AN ADDITIONAL POSITION. UM, THAT'S WHAT THAT MONEY WAS FOR, RIGHT? SO IT WASN'T NECESSARILY FOR MARKETING OR ANYTHING, LIKE, IT WAS ABOUT HAVING ANOTHER PERSON TO HELP WITH SOME OF THE LOAD. AND, UM, MR. PETTY AND I DISCUSSED LAST WEEK, LIKE, SOME OF THE THINGS, NOT CONCERNS, BUT SOME OF THE AREAS THAT MAYBE WE COULD ASSIST MORE, UM, THAT COULD HELP TAKE THAT BURDEN OFF OF SOME OF THE STAFF THERE. AND SO HE, HE'S ALREADY LOOKING INTO THAT. SO I THINK I'M, I'M JUST SAYING THAT MONEY THAT, THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT MOVING FOR THE ENGINEER WAS ABOUT A POSITION. IT WASN'T ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE. YEAH. I'M NOT DEBATING THAT. OKAY. I'M SAYING THAT I'M DEBATING, I THINK WE MADE THE RIGHT MOVE, RIGHT? BUT PROMOTIONALLY, YOU KNOW, SPENDING MONEY TO PROMOTE THE TOWN IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. AND THAT'S WHERE, WHERE I WAS WORKING ADVERTISING ON, AND I THINK AS THE COUNTY IS STARTING TO TAKE, I THINK AS THE COUNTY IS, IT SEEMS LIKE THE COUNTY IS FOCUSING MORE ON TOURISM RIGHT NOW. UM, AND THAT'S KIND OF SL OFF, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING THAT EVERYBODY DOESN'T KNOW. SO I THINK THAT, I THINK WITH THEM PUTTING MORE OF AN EFFORT THAT IT'S GONNA PROMOTE, JUST LIKE WE'VE CONTINUED AT THE VISITOR CENTER TO PROMOTE THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON IN THE COUNTY, AND I THINK THE COUNTY WILL BE DOING, IT'LL BE A VICE VERSA THING. SO MAYBE THAT WILL WE'LL SEE A POSITIVE IMPACT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YEAH. I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, ECHO THE SENTIMENT THAT WE NEED TO MAKE MORE TOURISM BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VISITING AND FOREST SHOULD BE THE ONES WHO ARE PAYING WHAT YOU GUYS WANNA INCREASE TAXES TO PAY HIGHEST TAX SALES TAX. I FEEL LIKE THOUGH, THAT WE'RE OVERLOOKING, LIKE WE HAVE THAT BUDGET LINE ON HIM, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, A PIECE OF JOE PAY, YOU KNOW, DOES JOES OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY AND PROMOTES SOME OF THE EVENTS THAT WE HAVE PROMOTE, UM, SO THERE'S, THERE'S LITTLE PIECES THAT ARE SPREAD AMONG MANY LIGHT ISLAND. SO IT'S NOT JUST THAT, THAT FLAT LINE ITEM. YEAH. FOR EXAMPLE, THE ACES COMMITTEE, LIKE THAT ACTUALLY THE EVENT THAT THEY HELD, UM, WAS BROUGHT PEOPLE IN TOO. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? YOU'RE RIGHT. THAT'S A GOOD POINT. TO ACCOUNT THE POLICING AND TRASH PICKUP. AND WE'RE WELL OVER THE 10%. YEAH. WE'RE SPENDING MONEY AND WE GOTTA SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY. BUT ALSO WE'RE IN A REALLY UNIQUE POSITION WHEN IT COMES TO ANY ADVERTISING OR MARKETING FIRM. OIL IS ONE OF THE MOST NAMED MUNICIPALITIES IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA ON ANY INTERSTATE. SO OUR NAME IS MENTIONED MORE TIMES FROM 4 95 TO EXIT 13 THAN ANY OTHER LOCALITY. I MEAN, YOU CAN LOOK THAT UP ON BEAT OFF'S WEBSITE, LIKE FROM 4 95, 2 95, 95, 66 17. BERT ROYAL IS NAMED MORE THAN ANY OTHER LOCALITY, WHICH IS FREE ADVERTISING FOR US. SAY, WELL, I SAY FREE, BUT WHAT DO WE GET FROM VDOT? REALLY? YEAH. AND, AND I, I GUESS WHERE I WAS GOING WITH THIS IS REACHING OUT FURTHER. THAT'S, AND THAT, AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE MONEY THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT WE RETAIN. SO ANYWAY, BIG T 60 MILES OUT, UM, AND I WAS GONNA SAY, TRYING TO THINK WHO TOLD ME THIS, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO HAD A CONVERSATION WAS THIS ABOUT, BUT RECENTLY THERE WAS SOME KIND OF EXPO IN DC THAT, THAT, UM, THEY WERE INVITING LIKE VENDORS AND THINGS LIKE THAT TOO. AND THEY ASKED ABOUT US NOT COMING. AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, LIKE OUR WORD, UM, MS. LEWIS CONTACTED THEM AND THEY WERE LIKE, WELL, WHAT COULD YOU AFFORD TO PAY? AM I TELLING THE WRONG STORY? I KNOW IT WASN'T YOU THAT TOLD ME, BUT IT WAS SOMEBODY LIKE THAT. AND SHE CONTACTED ME AND THEY WERE LIKE, WELL, WE THEN, YEAH, WE CAN TAKE THAT. AND SO I REALLY COMMEND HER BECAUSE IT'S ALMOST LIKE [00:35:01] NEGOTIATING ON THE CONFERENCE FEES. AND THEN THEY WOULD, THEY WERE ABLE TO GO THERE AND SET UP, AND I SAW PICTURES AND STUFF LIKE THAT. YEAH. THAT SIT DOWN DOWN SOUTH. YEP. THAT WAS AT ONE OF THE, I THINK THIS ONE WAS IN DC DC I THINK, WASN'T IT? YEAH, I WAS CONVENTION CENTER IN DC THE NATIONAL TRAVEL SHOW. YES. NATIONAL TRAVEL SHOW. YEAH. SO, SO EVEN THOUGH WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY IN THE BUDGET AT THAT POINT, THEY, UM, AND WHO KNOWS, MAYBE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE COMING. AND SO THEY WERE, I WAS GONNA SAY WILLING TO TAKE MORE, BUT WE BRING MORE TO THE TABLE THAN WHAT THESE BRINGS TO THE TABLE ANYWAY. OKAY. UM, SO THERE'S, IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE BUDGET. YES. WELL, I I'M NOT SURE WHERE IT FALLS IN THIS. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT ITEM THREE, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE DIFFERENT ORDINANCES, WHICH, WELL, I HAVEN'T GOT DOWN THERE YET, BUT, OKAY. YOU, YOU WE'RE GONNA YEAH, THIS IS JUST THE FIRST PART OF ONE STEP BY STEP HERE. OKAY. WELL, WE CAN CERTAINLY, WHICH, NO, THAT'S WHY, THAT'S WHY I, THIS IS THE ADDITIONAL BUDGET DISCUSSION, RIGHT? YEAH. I'M, I'M ASKING FOR ADDITIONAL BUDGET TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS JUST REGARDING GENERAL BUDGET. THE END MAINLY FOR THE APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE, UM, LOOKING TO ADVERTISE THE APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE TO HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT THE, UH, UH, NEXT COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING. UM, AND THEN, UH, WE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A HICCUP THERE WITH THE APPROVAL, AND WE HAD, CAN'T DO IT FOR SEVEN DAYS. RIGHT. SO WE WOULD ACTUALLY, UH, REQUEST COUNSEL TO APPROVE THE BUDGET. IT WOULDN'T GET THE FIRST WORK SESSION IN JUNE. IT WOULD BE THE SECOND WORK SESSION. CORRECT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. UM, AND THAT'S WHAT I KIND OF WANTED TO, UH, UH, JUST SEE IF THERE WAS ANY QUESTIONS, UH, REGARDING THE APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE THAT WE HAD, UH, BROUGHT UP. AND IF WE'RE OKAY TO ADVERTISE THAT APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE. AND THAT WOULD BE AT THE JUNE, WHAT IS JUNE 9TH? JUNE 9TH. SO WE WOULD ADOPT IT, YOUR HONOR. RIGHT. AND THAT'LL BE AT A WORK SESSION, WHICH WE CAN TAKE ACTION AT A WORK SESSION. YEAH. BEFORE YOU GET TOO FAR, I JUST WANNA SAY THOUGH, I DO CERTAIN SINCERELY APPRECIATE THAT THE CONVERSATIONS THIS COUNCIL HAD ABOUT THINGS THAT WERE IMPORTANT TO US IN THE BUDGET, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS SOMETHING AT LEAST A MONTH AGO OR SO THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS ENGINEER POSITION. SO I APPRECIATE THAT YOU GUYS WERE ABLE TO, OH, I WANNA SAY GET CREATIVE, BUT FIGURE OUT A WAY. 'CAUSE IT, IT APPEARS THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNCIL FELT THAT THAT WAS A VALUABLE THING FOR US TO HAVE. SO ANYWAY, AND SORRY. YEAH, WE'LL CONTINUE TO WORK ON THAT. WE MAY BE COMING BACK TO COUNCIL, UM, WITH, UH, SOME MORE INFORMATION AS WELL AS, UH, UH, POSSIBLE ORDINANCE CHANGES. UH, SO THE MUNICIPAL CODE DOES SPELL OUT SOME OF THE THINGS FOR A TOWN ENGINEER. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S GONNA QUITE FIT US AT THIS DAY AND TIME. UM, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE WORKING THROUGH. AND WE'LL BE COMING BACK MORE INFORMATION AS, UM, SO THE NEXT AND THE MAY 27TH IS A TUESDAY FOR EVERYBODY'S KNOWLEDGE. YEAH, JUST PUBLICS TOO. WE CAN'T HAVE OUR MEETING ON MEMORIAL DAY, SO IT'LL BE ON THE NEXT NIGHT, WHICH IS TUESDAY, WHICH IS ASIDE FOR US. MS. PRESLEY, WE, WE DO, DID WE CONTACT THE COUNTY? WE CAN USE IT, RIGHT? THERE'RE NOT MEETING THAT NIGHT. OKAY. THANK YOU. SORRY, . . COULD WE, THE CAUTION. UH, SO THE NEXT, UH, NEXT ITEM ON THE LIST HERE IS, IS THE, UH, UH, THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT FOR CHAPTER 1 34, UH, FOR, UH, SOON ON WATER RATE. UH, SO WE DID HAVE STANEC, UH, CONSULTING COME BACK TO, UH, TOWN COUNCIL HERE A FEW MONTHS AGO. UH, RECOMMENDED INCREASES, UH, FOR TWO AND A QUARTER PERCENT OF WATER, UH, RATES, UH, 3% SEWER RATES. UM, IT'LL BE YEAR OVER YEAR FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, AT WHICH POINT IN TIME WE WOULD LIKELY GO OUT AND DO ANOTHER COST OF SERVICE STUDY FOR THE WATER AND SEWER, UH, FEES. UM, AND WITH THAT, I'VE BROKEN DOWN, UH, THE ACTUAL ORDINANCE THAT HAS BEEN INCLUDED WITH, UH, UH, WITH THE PACKAGE HERE AS TO WHAT, UH, UH, STANTEC HAD RECOMMENDED. UH, AND THEN THESE, UH, FEES WOULD BE IN EFFECT, UH, JULY 1ST, 2025. UM, ANY QUESTIONS ON THE WATER SEWER RATES THERE? I THINK YOU HAD A NICE CHART IN HERE, BUT I'M NOT SEEING IT RIGHT NOW, BUT THE COMPARABLE CHART. YES. IT'S THE SAME CHART THAT, UH, STANTEC HAD, UH, PROVIDED TO US, UH, SHOWING THAT, UH, FRONT ROYAL IS, UH, INDEED ON THE LOWER END, UM, UH, FOUR RATES, UH, AND THE SURROUNDING AREA. UM, AND EVEN WITH THE PROPOSED RATES, WE WOULD CONTINUE TO BE ONE OF THE LOWER I THOUGHT WE HAD WHERE WE'RE COMPARING SIDE BY SIDE, BUT I SAW THAT, I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS. YEAH. UM, CHART THIS NO, THE SIDE BY SIDE RATE, LIKE HOW MUCH WE WERE RAISING IT. I KNOW YOU HAVE IT IN THERE. SORRY. WELL, DOES, THERE WAS ZONING FEES, MAYBE THAT'S WHAT IT IS. OKAY. BUT I DIDN'T SEE ONE ON. OKAY. BUT I THOUGHT WE LOOKED AT THAT. I THINK THEY, IN THEIR PRESENTATION, INEX PRESENTATION. WELL, ANYWAY, I SAW IT. I LIKED IT. , AND WE'RE ON THE LOWER END, EVEN THOUGH THE, UH, END, UM, YEAH, WE'RE, WE'RE WELL ON THE LOWER END FOR THOSE. AND THAT'S, IF THAT'S [00:40:01] APPROVED, IT'LL BEGIN THIS YEAR. JULY ONE, JULY ONE. BJ I'M NOT, AND AGAIN, I'M, I'M CLEAR ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT THAT GETS INTO THE ORDINANCE AND THE CHANGE IN THE RATES AND WHERE WE'RE JUST GOING, IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE GOING UP A LITTLE BIT. SO OUR SEWER CONNECTIONS, OUR DEVELOPMENT FEES ARE ONLY GONNA GO UP ON TWO AND A HALF PERCENT. NO, THOSE ARE, UH, THOSE DID INCREASE. I DON'T REMEMBER THE PERCENTAGE OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD THAT STANTEC HAD REVIEWED. THAT WAS BASED ON OUR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT. SO THE, UH, ACTUAL RATES IS WHAT WE'LL INCREASE YEAR OVER YEAR. UH, THE SYSTEM DEVELOPMENT FEES, UH, WILL REMAIN, WILL REMAIN, UM, TO THE RECOMMENDED AMOUNTS THAT, UH, STANTEC HAD PROVIDED. OKAY. SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THAT, AND AGAIN, I'M A LITTLE UNCLEAR WHERE, WHERE WE'RE AT, BUT WHEN I LOOK AT NEW DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WE KNOW COST US A LOT OF MONEY, FOR INSTANCE, THE SEWER, I'M ON A 26 IF Y'ALL WANT, UM, SEWER CONNECTIONS SERVE ABOUT THREE QUARTER INCH LINE. IT WAS, UH, $7,330 AND THAT'S GOING TO $7,386 AM MY YES, THAT'S CORRECT. AND THAT WAS BY OUR CONSULTANT? CORRECT. OKAY. AND DID OUR CONSULTANT, FORGIVE ME FOR ASKING THIS, BUT DID OUR CONSULTANT COMPARE THOSE FEES WITH THE SURROUNDING AREAS MM-HMM . YES. AND THAT'S, UH, ACTUALLY, ACTUALLY BEEN INCLUDED AS WELL. OKAY. UH, IT'S, UH, UH, THE SYSTEM DEVELOPMENT COMPARISON, THAT CHART THERE, THAT HAS BEEN INCLUDED. OKAY. AND YOU'LL SEE THAT WE'RE, UH, THIRD LOWEST IN THE AREA, IT LOOKS LIKE. WELL, AND, AND AGAIN, THERE'S NOT A LOT WE CAN DO ABOUT DEVELOPMENT IN THE SENSE OF, UM, MY RIGHT DEVELOPMENT, INFILL DEVELOPMENT MEANS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE IT, TAKE IT, IT'S THEIR OPPORTUNITY, THEIR RIGHT TO DO IT. BUT, UM, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE RAISE OUR WATER RATES, PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT DEVELOPERS ARE PAYING MORE FEES AS WELL. SO IT'S MORE OF A FAIR THING. IT'S NOT JUST ME, OR IT'S EVERYBODY, NO MATTER WHETHER YOU'RE DEVELOPING SOMETHING OR WHAT. BUT I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED WITH THE, THE SMALL AMOUNT OF FEE INCREASES AS, UM, WE'VE BEEN TRACKING, WE DO OUR RATE STUDIES EVERY FIVE YEARS, AND WE KEEP TRACK OF THOSE. SO BY DOING OUR DUE DILIGENCE, IT'S NOT AS SUBSTANTIAL AS SOME OTHER LOCALITIES I'VE SEEN. SO, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, I'M JUST LAKE CHARLESBURG. THERE'S SIGNIFICANTLY MORE THAN US DO. DOES HE MAY KNOW WHY. UM, ONE SECOND. IT COULD BE THE AGE OF THE PLANT, THE CAPACITY OF THE PLANT, THE INFRASTRUCTURE THEY'VE HAD TO ADD. I MEAN, OKAY. UH, MOUNT JACKSON, I THINK JUST HAD TO SINK TWO OR THREE MORE WELLS. SO THAT'S GOING, BECAUSE WOODSTOCK IS WOODSTOCK'S RIGHT THERE. W FOR TOO, JUST, WELL, THEY, THEY WENT THROUGH A DROUGHT THIS YEAR TOO. SO WHEN WE WENT FOR THE, WHEN WE, THE CHESAPEAKE BAY ACT CAME INTO EFFECT AND WE UPGRADE THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLAN, IF YOU REMEMBER, UH, WE GOT, UH, HUGE GRANT OPPORTUNITIES FOR THAT PLAN. I BELIEVE IT WAS ROUGHLY $15 MILLION, AND WE GOT THE 0% FINANCING FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE CONSTRUCTION. SO WE WERE VERY LUCKY IN THAT ASPECT BECAUSE, UH, I BELIEVE IN, WAS IT 2015 16 ERA, UH, WE ACTUALLY DECREASED THE SEWER RATES BECAUSE WE WERE EXPECTING A MUCH HIGHER, UM, RATE. SO WE ACTUALLY DECREASED THE SEWER RATES IN THAT TIME PERIOD BECAUSE OF THOSE GRANTS AND THINGS. UM, I'M NOT SURE IF THOSE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES WERE, YOU KNOW, ABLE TO GET THAT. YEAH, MAYBE THEY WERE AT THAT TIME. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THE WATER SEWER RIGHT THERE. ALL RIGHT. SO MOVING ON TO THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENT FOR CHAPTER 12, TWO FOR PUBLIC WORKS FEES FOR THE SUBJECT TANK WASTE. UM, SO THIS IS ALSO RECOMMENDED BY THE CONSULTANTS. UH, THESE ARE THE FEES THAT THE TOWN CHARGES TO, UH, UH, WE BILL WARREN COUNTY AND THEN WARREN COUNTY IN TURN BILLS THE SEPTIC COLLARS. UH, FOR THESE, UM, THE, UH, RATES ARE RECOMMENDED TO GO FROM $50 TO 58, UH, $58, 55 CENTS PER THOUSAND GALLONS, UH, SEPTIC CALL. UM, AND THEN, UH, ON TOP OF THIS, SO THIS IS ACTUALLY FOR THE OPERATIONAL EXPENSE, WHAT IT COSTS US TO ACTUALLY, UM, TREAT THE, UH, SEPTIC CALLS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT, WARREN COUNTY IS ALSO PAYING A PORTION OF THE DEBT SERVICE ON THE SET TO CALL STATION ITSELF. I THINK IT'S ROUGHLY A $130,000 A YEAR. AND IT GOOD IS FOR THE AMORTIZATION OF THE LOAN BASED WORKSHEET. UM, SO WHAT WARREN COUNTY DOES IS THEY ADD ONE, UH, THE, THE COMPONENT FOR THE DEBT SERVICE THAT THEY'RE PAYING TO US ONE AND FILLS THAT TO THE SEPTIC CALLERS, AND THAT'S HOW THEY RECOUP THEIR CALLS. UM, SO AS OF NOW, WE HAVE THIS, UH, CLICK TO GO EFFECTIVE JULY 1ST AS WELL. WE DID NOTIFY WARREN COUNTY OF THE [00:45:01] INCREASE AT THE LIAISON MEETING, UH, JUST A MONTH OR SO AGO. UH, SO THEY ARE AWARE THAT THIS IS COMING DOWN BY, WELL, THEY SAID THEY JUST PASS IT FORM TO THE SEPTIC, TAKE CRAWLERS, SO THEY DIDN'T REALLY CARE. YEAH. THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE IN THIS PUBLIC WORKS FEES MM-HMM . UM, LIKE THE WEIGHT GOODS DISPOSAL AND DRIVEWAY DISPOSAL AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I KNOW WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT SOME THINGS LIKE THAT COMING UP, BUT THAT WAS OR WASN'T PART OF THE SOLID WASTE STUDY. UM, WE GOT, WE HAD TO DO AN ABOUT FACE COUNT ON THAT, SO IT WAS NOT DIRECTLY IN, IN THE SOLID WASTE STUDY. OKAY. THE, UH, THOSE, THOSE FEES ARE, WELL, WE CAN EASILY ADJUST THOSE FEES, UH, OR FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY, UH, SHOULD BE AT. UM, IT'S NOT A HUGE, UM, A HUGE AMOUNT THERE. UH, BUT, UM, UH, BUT NO, IT, IT WAS NOT, UH, PART OF THE SOLID. I WAS JUST THINKING LIKE COMMERCIAL $15 TO PICK UP A WHITE GOODS LIKE THAT CHEAP. LIKE IF YOU ON THE WHITE GOODS, WE TAKE IT AND WE ACTUALLY, UH, WE MAY PUT UP THE SCRAP BECAUSE WE'RE SCRAPPING. RIGHT. I JUST, I JUST WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THAT. I KNOW WE HAD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THAT AND RIGHT. UM, AND, AND WE WILL, I'M, I, THAT'S GONNA BE SOMETHING ON A JUNE WHERE WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE YARD WASTE DISPOSAL, UM, THAT VERY LAST ONE. YARD WASTE DISPOSAL, RESIDENTIAL TOWN OR COUNTY NO CHARGE. SO WE'LL BE BRINGING THAT UP IN JUNE. THAT'S THE GOAL, RIGHT? MAYBE NEXT WEEK. IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY SLATED FOR NEXT WEEK. OH, WE'RE HAVING OUR AGENDA MEETING TOMORROW NOW. I KNOW. WHICH I TOLD YOU I WASN'T HAVE ONE THERE, SO THAT'S A GOOD THING. ALL RIGHT. SOUNDS GOOD. THANK YOU. SO, UH, WE GOOD TO ADVERTISE, UH, ALL THREE OF THESE, THE APPROPRIATION ORDINANCE, ORDINANCE FOR WATER SURVEY AND ORDINANCE FOR THE SUBJECT TANK. OVERALL QUESTIONS. GOOD TO GO. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. VERY GOOD. UM, SO NEXT UP, SORRY, THESE THINGS DO NOT WANNA SPIN. OKAY. SORRY. FOUR A I THOUGHT MR. WILSON, I SAW THE WORD BUDGET. YOU'RE STILL UP, RIGHT? YEP. STILL UP. SO FOUR A F 5, 25 BUDGET AMENDMENT AND TRANSFER FOR AUTOMATED SCHOOL SPEED CAMERA REMEDY. SO, UM, I APOLOGIZE NOW. WE DID SEND OUT A, I SENT OUT AN EMAIL LATER, UH, LATE THIS AFTERNOON REGARDING THIS. UH, SO SORRY, UH, YOU GUYS DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO SEE THAT YET. UH, WE'VE KIND OF SWITCHED GEARS ON THIS A LITTLE BIT. UM, SO THIS IS THE, UH, UH, REVENUE THAT WE'RE RECEIVING FROM THE AUTOMATED SPEED CAMERAS AT THE SCHOOL, UH, SCHOOL ZONES. UM, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO IS, UH, TO, UH, ALLOCATE SOME OF THESE FUNDS, UH, TO PUBLIC SAFETY. UM, $107,000, UH, $107,200 FOR SCHOOL FLASH REPLACEMENTS THAT WOULD ACTUALLY REPLACE THE, UH, THE FLASHERS AND UPGRADE THOSE. UM, HAVE MR. ELLE HERE. AND YOU PROBABLY TELL MORE ABOUT THAT IF WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON FOR EVERY SCHOOL. FOR ALL OF THE SCHOOLS, CORRECT? YES, FOR ALL OF THE SCHOOLS. UM, AND THEN THE OTHER THING, UH, WE DID HAVE IN HERE LISTED THE, UH, POLICE IN CAR CAMERAS REPLACEMENT OF THE CANINE POLICE VEHICLE AND THE, UH, REPLACE EMERGENCY SERVICE TEAM EQUIPMENT. UM, WE'RE GONNA RECOMMEND TO TAKE OFF THE, UH, REPLACING THE CANINE VEHICLE AND REPLACING THE, UH, EMERGENCY SERVICE, UH, EQUIPMENT AT THIS POINT IN TIME. UH, BECAUSE, UH, THE POLICE IN-CAR CAMERAS, UH, THE QUOTE THAT WAS INCLUDED, UH, WAS NOT THE CORRECT QUOTE. UH, THE CORRECT QUOTE IS ACTUALLY, UH, $162,000, UM, THE $47,000 AND CHIEF, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG ON ANY OF THIS, UH, BUT, UH, UH, THE $47,000 WAS FOR THE EXISTING EQUIPMENT, JUST TO KIND OF EXTEND THAT OUT. UH, THE 162,000 WILL ACTUALLY GET, UH, NEW EQUIPMENT AS WELL AS, UH, UH, OUR SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES FOR FIVE YEAR PERIOD. UM, AS WE'RE MOVING ALONG, DO WE LEASE THOSE CAMERAS? WE DO IT. THEY RECOMMEND TO UPGRADE ALL OF 'EM BECAUSE THE PARTS ARE GONNA BE OUTDATED ON THE EXISTING CAMERAS SERVICE, WHICH IS WHY WE LEASE THEM IN THE FIRST CASE. YEAH. I, I DIDN'T KNOW IF WE WANT RELEASE THEM, MARK. YEP. AND WE REPLACEMENT OF THE, OF THE, UH, THE VEHICLE. WHAT ABOUT IT? YOU'RE GONNA TAKE THAT OUT? WE'RE GONNA TAKE IT OUT. UH, WE DO HAVE SOME OTHER, UH, FUNDS THAT SHOULD BE COMING DOWN THE PIPE, INGERS CROSS, THAT'LL BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THAT AS WELL AS THE, UM, UH, THE POLICE EMERGENCY SERVICE EQUIPMENT. SO WE'RE JUST PUTTING THEM ON HOLD FOR RIGHT NOW. UM, AND THEN, UH, THE Z THE IN CAR CAMERAS IS, SO THEY'VE REPLACEMENT THE EMERGENCY SERVICES. UH, TELL WHAT IT'S STILL IN. I MEAN, IS IT STILL IN SERVICE? WE IT'S OKAY TO TAKE IT OUT. YES. WE HAVE OTHER, IT'S STILL A DATE. YEAH. WE, WE HAVE OTHER FUNDS THAT WE CAN POSSIBLY THE BJ YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, [00:50:01] UH, UH, AS FAR AS THE SPEED CAMERA REVENUE, IF I UNDERSTOOD THIS BACK AND FORTH HERE OR WERE GONNA APPROPRIATE $107,200 FOR UH, APPLIES YOUR REPLACEMENT. YES SIR. THAT'S REPLACEMENT, THAT'S NOT ADDING, UM, TO OTHER SCHOOL ZONES THAT DON'T HAVE THEM PRESENT, CORRECT? CORRECT. IT'S JUST REPLACING THE EXISTING, THAT'S NOT REPLACING THE CAMERA, THAT'S REPLACING THE FLASHING LIGHTS. NO. LIKE ON, ON CHESTER STREET. CORRECT. OKAY. DON'T ALL THE SCHOOLS HAVE THE FLASHING LIGHT. WE DON'T HAVE WHICH ONES DON'T BEFORE I WAS, OH YEAH. THE OTHER ONE I GO TO EVERY DAY. LFK DON'T HAVE ONE. UM, AND I BELIEVE IT TO BE FAIR INSTEAD THAT IN THE DEAD END AND THE SPEED, THE SPEED LIMIT DROPPED ANYWAY, SO, ALRIGHT, SO YOU'RE GONNA REPLACE THEM. SO WE'RE REPLACE 12 UNITS TOTAL. OKAY. UH, WE HAVE 16 TOTAL, BUT TWO OF 'EM OR FOUR OF 'EM GOT REPLACED WITH THE BLUE LINE RIGHT AS ROADS. AND THEN THE ONES AT THE, UH, OLD PASS THE SKYLINE MISS SKYLINE. SO WE HAVE 12 UNITS REPLACED, UH, 16 CONTROLLERS, WHICH WILL UPDATE ALL NEW CONTROLLERS AND SOFTWARE. THAT WAY WE CAN DO OR RELEASE DISMISSALS EXACTLY WHEN SCHOOL'S OUT. AND THEN THEY'LL ALL BE CELL MODEM BACK TO A CENTRAL CLOUD-BASED SOFTWARE. BUT WE'LL BE IN CONTROL OF THAT INSTEAD OF THE FULL SCHOOL SYSTEM. WE, WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN IN CONTROL OF THAT. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. I ALWAYS THOUGHT THEY HAD A MECHANICAL TIMER. MR. FEL. YES. I DON'T BELIEVE I HEARD YOU SAY HJB, RIGHT? HJB DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING. NO, NO, THAT, NO, IT'S TIED IN WITH, UH, THE ONE WITH THE HIGH SCHOOLS. SO RIGHT THERE BY THE OLD FOLKS HOME ON WESTMINSTER AND THEN OVER ON WALKER. THERE'S TWO, THERE'S A FLETCHER THERE, RIGHT? YEAH. THE ONE ON WALKER COMING UP TO YEAH. CORRECT. BUT FOR WALKER ALL THE WAY OVER, THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY TOWN PROPERTY. THAT'S COUNTY PROPERTY. THAT'S THE REASON WHY. IT'S JUST ON THE ROAD. THEY DON'T GET ANY SPEEDING TICKETS THERE. SO WALKER TO WESTMINSTER. WELL, DON'T TELL PEOPLE THAT. YEAH. WHY? I'M JUST SAYING LIKE, BECAUSE IT'S IN A DIFFERENT SPOT. ALONG THOSE SAME LINES ABOUT FLASHERS OR WHATEVER, THIS IS OFF TOPIC, BUT IT'S ON TOPIC. I PROMISE. I'VE NOTICED QUITE A FEW PLACES AROUND TOWN THAT HAVE THE, LIKE THE SOLAR POWDER AND IT'S TELLING YOU THE SPEED, LIKE NEW ONES THAT I HAD NOT SEEN, SEEN SPEED READERS. YEAH. YEAH. THE SPEED READER. NOT, NOT NOT CAMERAS, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. SO DO WE, DID WE GET A BUNCH OF NEW ONES? WE GOT TWO. SO THAT WAS MR. WALTZ, UM MM-HMM . LIKE MOVEMENT THERE. MM-HMM . WE WANTED TO GET COMING TO ALL LOCATIONS OF TOWN ON THE MAIN THOROUGHFARE. SO JOHN MARSHALL HIGHWAY. MM-HMM . UM, FIVE 20. YEAH. SHE RIGHT AT 5 22 THERE. MM-HMM . AND THEN EVENTUALLY, YOU KNOW, THREE 40 COMING INTO TOWN AND THEN 5 22 COMING TO TOWN OFF OF REMOUNT. THAT WAS KIND OF THE IDEA. SO WE STARTED WITH TWO 'CAUSE WE HAD SOME MONEY AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT. YEAH. I THINK IT'S, I I I'VE SEEN IT JUST THE, JUST THE INDICATOR. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, THERE'S ONE ON WESTMINSTER. OH, OKAY. IT'S THE ONE THAT PD PUTS UP. YEAH, THAT'S, YEAH. THAT'S DIFFERENT. IT'S ON A POLE. WE DO HAVE ONE THAT RECORDS ON THE POLE THAT WE COLLECT THAT DATA SO WE KNOW TO DO ENFORCEMENT. I DO THINK THOUGH THAT IT'S IMPACTFUL BECAUSE I DRIVE IT EVERY DAY AND I, AND I WAS GONNA SAY LIKE I'VE SEEN PEOPLE WATCH, NOT ONLY DO I SLOW DOWN, NOT ONLY DO I SLOW DOWN THE OTHER PEOPLE OR OH, I DOWN TOO. I HAVEN'T SEEN GOING PAST, I DIDN'T HAVE THE, I THINK IT'S BEEN, I I'M JUST SAYING IT MADE, I DON'T KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE THEY ARE, BUT I FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT FEEDING AND MONTHS, YEAH. I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THEY'VE BEEN THERE, BUT I CAME BACK INTO TOWN YESTERDAY FROM OUT OF TOWN FOR A COUPLE DAYS. I WAS LIKE, OH NO, IT, I DIDN'T LIKE LOU. IT JUST, IT'S NEW. IT IT, IT WAS NEW IN THE LAST WEEK. JOHN, JOHN MARSHALL WAS LAST WEEK AND THE WEEK BEFORE. YES. THE ONE I KNEW IT WAS BECAUSE I AVENUE AND I'VE HAD MULTIPLE PEOPLE ASK ME, IS IT TICKETING THEM? YEAH. . AND I HAVE TO SAY, I DON'T KNOW. I BETTER ASK. I DON'T THINK SO. AND THEY'RE LIKE, WELL IT'S NEAR A SCHOOL. I DON'T THINK WHAT THEY WANT. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I SAID. BUT IT IS THAT, THAT PARTICULAR SPOT GOES FROM 35 TO 25 LIKE THAT. THAT WAS A GOOD PLACE FOR IT. IT WAS A GOOD PLACE. IT WAS A GOOD PLACE. THERE WAS ACTUALLY A SIGNAGE ISSUE. IT'LL BE MOVED A LITTLE BIT FURTHER DOWN, SO WE HAVE TO DO SOME CHANGES THIS WEEK, BUT THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE. ALRIGHT. IT'LL STILL BE THERE. OKAY. UM, SO IF COUNCIL IS OKAY WITH THE SCHOOL FLASHERS AND THE INCAR CAMERAS, UH, WE'LL MOVE THIS FORWARD TO THE COUNCIL, UH, REGULAR AGENDA. AND THEN THE, UH, THE INCAR CAMERAS WILL, UH, COME UP AS A PROCUREMENT ITEM, UH, FOR PURCHASE BECAUSE [00:55:01] IT WILL BE $162,000. SO IT'LL BE 162 AND 172, CORRECT. A HUNDRED SIXTY SEVEN TWO. SO IT'S AROUND TWO HUNDRED AND SEVENTY THREE SEVENTY FOUR. 274. UH, SOME, SOMEWHERE IN THAT AREA. I HAD ACTUALLY, I HAD IT WRITTEN DOWN. IT'S I'LL, I'LL HAVE ANOTHER, UM, UH, IT'LL BE ON THE REGULAR AGENDA WITH THE, UH, WITH ALL THE AMOUNTS LISTED. CORRECT. OKAY. WELL AND THAT'S GOOD THAT WE'RE USING IT FOR SAFETY. OKAY. OTHER QUESTIONS THERE? SO THAT'S BEING PULLED OUT THE LINE IN THE GENERAL FUND? THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. WELL I'M SURE YOU'RE GONNA WORK YOUR MAGIC LATER. AND TELL US WHAT BACKFILL. IT'S JUST THE REVENUE, IT'S THE ADDITIONAL RIGHT? IS IT HASN'T BEEN ALLOCATED. BEEN ALLOCATED. HASN'T BEEN ALLOCATED A GENERAL FUND. IT'S STILL WITHIN THE, OKAY, GREAT. SO WE'RE OVER ON REVENUE ON THAT LINE ITEM RIGHT NOW. WELL, THAT WAS A DISCUSSION. I'LL BACK. SORRY. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION THERE. OKAY. MR. WILSON'S DONE RIGHT? YEP. SO NEXT ARE MR. BOYER STAFFORD ONE INVESTMENTS REQUEST FOR WATER AND SEWER IN THE ROUTE 5 22 CORRIDOR FOR INDUSTRIAL USE FROM STAFFORD ONE INVESTMENTS, LLC AT WINCHESTER ROAD AND WINNERS COURT. WINNERS COURT. SO IT'S ACROSS FROM OURS W JAIL. OKAY. IT'S A 220,000 SQUARE PROPOSED INDUSTRIAL SOURCE FACILITY. UM, THEY HAD SENT UTILITY APPLICATION A COUPLE MONTHS AGO. ORIGINALLY THEY, IT WAS 54,000 GALLONS. SO WE SENT A THING BACK THAT, THAT WAS VERY UNREALISTIC. SO THEY SENT A NEW APPLICATION BACK. UH, WE WENT BACK AND FORTH 'CAUSE THEY HAD SOME THINGS WRONG, BUT SO NOW IT'S AT 4,500 GALLONS A DAY. THEY'RE EXPECTING ABOUT 50 EMPLOYEES AND THEY'RE SAYING LIKE 24 HOURS A DAY. UM, TALKING A TWO INCH DOMESTIC INTENSE FIRE SUPPRESSION. UM, IS WHAT THEIR, UH, CONCEPTUAL PLAN UTILITY APPLICATION. THEY HAVEN'T NO FULL SITE PLAN YET. UM, ONE THING THAT IS KIND OF ODD ABOUT THIS SITE, SO THEY HAVE TO CROSS 5 22 TO GET WATER IN SEWER, BUT THE SEWER ACTUALLY HAS TO CROSS FAR SW PROPERTY. UM, SO THEY'VE ACTUALLY ALREADY TALKED TO THE JAIL AND GOT AN AGREEMENT WITH THEM IF THIS GETS PASSED SO THAT WAY THEY CAN OBTAIN SEWER. UM, THEY GET ALL THAT SIGNED WITH THE, UH, THE JAIL ALREADY. UM, WHICH WOULD'VE BEEN THE THREE, IT WOULD'VE BEEN THE THREE COUNTIES, RIGHT? MM-HMM . IT WOULD'VE BEEN THEIR MM-HMM . IT WOULD'VE BEEN , RW ALL THE DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS. YES, MA'AM. AND THEY DID GIVE US A COPY OF THAT. UM, IT'S OUTTA TOWN, SO OF COURSE THE SYSTEM DEVELOPMENT FEES WILL BE DOUBLE. UM, THE MONTHLY RATE WILL BE DOUBLE, UM, SINCE THE SIZE OF DOMESTIC AND THE FIRE SUPPRESSION ARE LARGER, UM, THERE WILL BE A MONTHLY FEE ON TOP OF THEIR UTILITY BILL, UM, WITH THE TENSION, THE TWO, WHICH IS JUST ABOUT 130 GRAND FOR SYSTEM GO OF FEES. UM, THAT, THAT WOULD COST FOR THEM TO CONNECT. AND OF COURSE THEY'D HAVE TO PUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THEIR CELLS, UH, ONCE THEY GET APPROVED SITE PLAN IF COUNCIL APPROVES IT. IS THAT YOU SAID ACROSS THOUGH? NOT ON THE SAME SIDE AS THE JAIL. IT'S ACROSS THE STREET. FIVE ACROSS THE STREET. THAT'S I THOUGHT SHE SAID. YEAH. GOING OUT OF TOWN IS ON THE LEFT SIDE COMING FROM TOWN. CORRECT. OKAY. NOW WHAT OTHER STORAGE PLACES PROPERTY, IS THIS ONE OF THE PROPERTIES IN THE, IN THE MONTHLY MEETING WITH THE COUNTY WE TALKED ABOUT? MM-HMM. YES SIR. SO THEY HAVE SETTLED ON THIS AS BEING A WAREHOUSE? YEP. YES SIR. THE USE? YES SIR. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. THE END USE WOULD BE A, I'M SORRY, I MISSED THAT ONE. WELL, THE ONLY CONCERN I HAD, AND IT REALLY WAS BROUGHT UP, THE COUNTY'S ASKING FOR WATER FOR A LOT OF THESE BUILDINGS, BUT THE END USE ISN'T DETERMINED. AND THE LADY FROM RAP, IC ELECTRIC SAID, WELL, I DON'T KNOW THE RON THIS LINE FOR THIS OR A SMALLER LINE. LIKE IF THIS IS GONNA BE WAREHOUSING YEAH. BATHROOMS, BUT WHAT IF IT ENDS UP BEING MANUFACTURING AND THE PROCESS USED OF WATER THAT IT'S A, IT'S GONNA BE A STORAGE FACILITY RIGHT NOW. RIGHT. THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. PROPOSE USES AND I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE WEIGH IN HERE A LITTLE BIT, BUT SO THE APPLICANT, UM, UH, THE APPLICANT DID CONTACT US TODAY. THEY WAS TRYING TO BE HERE TONIGHT BUT WAS UNABLE TO MAKE IT. OKAY. IF WE, IF WE WOULD LIKE TO, WE CAN, UH, PUSH THIS TO THE 12TH MEETING TO THE NEXT WORK SESSION AND THE APPLICANT'S HAPPY TO, TO COME TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. AND, AND AGAIN, ALL I'M SAYING IS WE DON'T WANT TO SAY YES TO ONE THING AND, AND IT ENDS UP BEING A, A FOR SURE MODELING PLAN. TO THAT POINT THOUGH, MR. SONNET HAS TOLD US BEFORE THAT WE'RE APPROVING THE USE THAT THEY APPLY FOR. SO IF THEIR USE CHANGES AND WE NO LONGER HAVE THE CAPACITY TO SUPPLY THEM, WE'RE NOT REQUIRED TO THE WATER NOT TO USE OUTDOOR PERMIT. IS THAT, IS THAT STILL ACCURATE, MR. I I'M FINE, BUT THAT'S NO, I KNOW, I I'M NOT THOUGH. I WANNA KNOW IS THAT TRUE OR NOT? I MEAN, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, TO USE, [01:00:01] I MEAN FOUR 4,500 GALLONS PER DAY IS ONE THING, BUT, BUT, BUT IF, LIKE YOU SAID, THE USE CHANGES AND SUDDENLY IT'S 45,000 GALLONS OF WATER PER DAY. SO THIS IS JUST A CONCEPTUAL, UH, APPROVAL, RIGHT? MM-HMM . WOMEN RECYCLING, WE WON'T SITE, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING BUT SO, WELL THE OTHER THING THAT WE ALWAYS CAME BACK TO WAS OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVEN'T EVEN GOT RECEIVED REZONING APPROVAL. THIS WE'RE WAY THE PROCESS. WE ALWAYS PROVIDE WATER TO THE TOWN BEFORE THE COURT, OR IF THERE WERE DROUGHT WHERE WE WERE RUNNING OUT OF WATER, WE WOULD PROVIDE IT TO THE PEOPLE WITHIN THE TOWN BEFORE WE WOULD EXTEND IT TO THE CORRIDOR. THAT IS THE EXCESS CAPACITY THEORY. MM-HMM . BUT UNDERPINS SERVING OUTSIDE ARE, ARE TOWN LIMITS. YES. AND THE REASON WHY THIS WILL COME BEFORE YOU ALL IS BECAUSE IT'S FOR AN INDUSTRIAL USE MM-HMM . IF IT WAS A COMMERCIAL USE, NOBODY APPROVES OR DOESN'T APPROVE. IT'S, I MEAN AS FAR AS LIKE THE WATER, EVERY INDUSTRIAL USE, WHICH I KNOW THERE'S ACTUALLY BEEN QUITE A BIT OF TALK ABOUT THAT LATELY. I THINK THE UPCOMING ELECTION IS DOING THAT. UM, BUT TALKING ABOUT LIKE THE WATER AND SUGGESTING AS THOUGH THE TOWN'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, MAKING MONEY OFF OF IT AND YOU KNOW, WE REALLY ARE JUST TRYING, WE SHOULD TAKE MONEY FOR A SERVICE. WE PROVIDE . NO, I KNOW, BUT I'M SAYING THOUGH, IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE TRYING TO LIKE, UM, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OF PEOPLE IN THE SYSTEM. YEAH. THEY'RE MAKING MONEY OFF OF US FOR SOLID WASTE. RIGHT. BUT I'M, I'M JUST SAYING THOUGH THAT, THAT PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY'RE, I'VE HEARD COMMENTS ABOUT, WELL WE'VE GOTTA ASK PERMISSION FROM THE TOWN TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. WELL WE ARE PROVIDING THE WATER AND WE HAVE TO HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN OUR SYSTEM AND, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T KEEP PROVIDE PROVIDING WATER AND THEN HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS COME IN IN THE TOWN WHICH WE'RE OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE WATER TO AND NOT HAVE ENOUGH. SO YES, I SAY ONE OTHER THOUGHT THAT I WAS THINKING ABOUT TOO WE COULD DO TOO IS WHEN WE DO THE UTILITY APPLICATION, WE SET IT UP AND SEND IT UP FOR THE ACCOUNT. WE COULD PUT MAYBE MAKE A NOTE IN THE ACCOUNT WHAT THEY WERE APPROVED FOR. SO IF IT GETS WAY HIGHER, MAYBE THAT WE COULD SET SOMEWHERE WOULD FLAG IT. I DON'T KNOW. SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TO GIVE HIS SOFTWARE, IT'S COMING DOWN THE PIPE, WE'LL DO THAT. SO, YOU KNOW, WE COULD PUT IN WHAT KIND OF, WHAT THEY WERE APPROVED FOR AND IF IT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SET SOME PARAMETERS IF IT STARTS GETTING UP YEAH. WOULD LET US KNOW, HEY, SOMETHING'S YEAH, THAT'S ACTUALLY A REALLY GOOD IDEA. WE CAN DO THAT WITH EVERYBODY OUT THERE TOO, RACHEL, TO MAKE SURE, UH, ONCE WE GET NEW SOFTWARE WE WILL HAVE THAT CAPABILITY. AND YOU WERE KIND OF ABLE TO TELL TOO, BY BILLING BECAUSE THERE WAS SOMEBODY OUT IN THE CORRIDOR WHO GOT RECYCLERS AND DRAMATICALLY DECREASED IT. AND WE KNEW THAT BY THE IMPACT ON THE BUDGET? YES, WE DID. UM, I HAVE A QUESTION, ROBBIE. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD BE SOMETHING YOU OR MAYBE LAUREN WOULD BE ABLE TO ANSWER, BUT I GUESS I'M CONFUSED AS TO WHY A STORAGE FACILITY IS INDUSTRIAL USE INSTEAD OF, SO YOU CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, IF ORDER BE COMMERCIAL, IT HAS TO HAVE STOREFRONT WHERE CUSTOMERS CAN COME AND DO RETAIL. RETAIL, RIGHT. THIS IS FOR INDUSTRIAL USE. THEY GOT STORAGE. IT'S NOT LIKE AN ENCLOSED STORAGE, IT'S A WAREHOUSE. RETAIL WOULD BE, IT'S A LARGE ONE. BUILDING WAREHOUSE'S, NO RETAIL COMPONENT TO THIS. SO IT'S NOT COMMERCIAL LIKE TRACTOR TRAILER. IT'S NOT LIKE AN ENCLOSED STORAGE THAT WAS JUST BUILT NEXT TO THE GMC DEALER. MY QUESTION IS JUST IN GENERAL, I MEAN, WHY ARE WE SEEING THIS BEFORE IT'S GOT ZONING APPROVAL? ARE THEY LOOKING TO, THEY WANNA MAKE, MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE THE WIRE? I THINK THAT, I THINK ALL OF THESE HAVE BEEN LIKE THAT. THEY WANNA MAKE SURE THERE'S WATER. THEY JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IT ADDS WEIGHT TO THEIR APPLICATION FOR REZONING. NO, THEY CAN'T. THEY DON'T WANNA REZONE IT IF THEY CAN'T GET THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO WELL, I MEAN, SAME THING. I MEAN, IF GET IT, IF, IF THEY, WELL, WE CAN HAVE TO FOR REZONING WITHOUT THIS, RIGHT? NO, THE COUNTY CAN STILL ZONING. BUT THEY WELL, I, I'M JUST SAYING HERE THOUGH, I MEAN, THEY CAN WELLS OR WHATEVER, ALL THEY GOTTA TO DO OR MAKE OR, I MEAN, IT'D BE, IT'D BE UNREALISTIC, BUT I'M JUST SAYING IT'S, THAT'S A POSSIBILITY. AND LIKE ROBBIE JUST MENTIONED, WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE FINDING AND SAYING THEY PROBABLY DON'T WANNA PURCHASE IT IF THEY DON'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE GETTING THEIR WATER. YEAH, I GET IT. I MEAN, THAT'S A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. I'M JUST, I WAS JUST, I'M JUST ASKING OUT LOUD. THAT'S ALL. I MEAN, THAT'S THE ONLY QUESTION I HAD BECAUSE, SO 50 EMPLOYEES, YOU KNOW, IT JUST, IT JUST PUTS WASTE ON, AS FAR AS WAREHOUSES ARE CONCERNED. I MEAN, THEY'RE THE LEASE TO USE OF ALL THE WATER THEY LOST. UNFORTUNATELY, LAKE JOBS, I MEAN, IT'S 2020. THE MATH SAYS, IN THIS CASE IT'S 220,000 SQUARE FEET. SO IT'S ABOUT 20 GALLON PER SQUARE FOOT. SO I THINK THIS IS A LOT ON SHELF. I MEAN, I COULD BE WRONG. I, WELL, I WISH WE COULD HAVE A MANUFACTURER, BUT MAYBE THEY COME AND I THOUGHT I WAS GONNA SAY AT LEAST IN THE LAST YEAR, THIS IS AT LEAST THE THIRD OR FOURTH ONE [01:05:01] THAT'S COME BEFORE US. I'M THIS POSITIVE IV. ARE YOU, ARE? THERE'S, THERE'S FOUR. OKAY. SO THANK YOU TO TINA. SHE PROVIDED THE LIST. SO THERE ARE, HOW DID YOU KNOW I WAS GONNA ASK THAT I DIDN'T KNOW. THERE WAS FOUR, FOUR OUT OF TOWN REQUESTS SINCE LATE 2024 FLYING SMITH ON BALL DRIVE, WHICH WAS 611 GALLONS, WHICH IS A LANDSCAPE CONTRACTOR FOR REGARD, UH, RUSH MARK PROPERTIES, UM, WHICH WAS IN OCTOBER, WHICH WAS 675 GALLONS FOR AN INDUSTRIAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER TO A PLASTICS CAME IN IN DECEMBER, WHICH WAS 1800 GALLONS. WAREHOUSE DISTRIBUTION. EQUI CAME IN IN DECEMBER 40, 200 GALLONS. UH, AND THEN THERE WAS ANOTHER IN 2025 IN JANUARY. BUT THAT ONE LOOKS LIKE IT DID NOT GO THROUGH YET. AND I THINK THEY RECENTLY REACHED BACK OUT ABOUT THERE WAS SOME ISSUES WITH THE APPLICATION. THOSE WERE MONTHLY NUMBERS, MR. PETTY RATE. THOSE WERE MONTHLY TOTALS OF WATER. NOT DAILY. ALL I HAVE IS THE NUMBER, I THINK, THINK DAILY THAT WOULD'VE BEEN GALLON PER DAY. HOLD ON. SIX OR 610,000 GALLONS A DAY. JUST 611. OKAY. NO, NOT THOUSAND RUSH. MARK SAID THAT WAS, THERE'S LIKE TWO OR THREE OTHER PHASES TO THE RUSH MARK. YEAH, RUSH MARK HAD THINK FOUR BUILDINGS IN TOTAL. THAT WAS JUST FOR THE FIRST, AND THOSE WERE THE LEAST. IT CAME UP IN THE CONVERSATION. THEY DON'T, THEY WON'T SPECIFY WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH THE BUILDINGS AND FACT THE POINT IS IT GONNA BE A DISTRIBUTION CENTER? COULD IT BE A BOTTLER, COULD IT BE A LAUNDRY? COULD IT BE, YOU KNOW, THE USE WILL BE DEVER DETERMINED LATER ON DOWN LINE ARE GET BUILDING READY. THAT'S PROBABLY TO BUILDING. UM, WE'RE DONE WITH THAT PART. BUT I JUST WANNA ASK MS. PRESLEY, , YOU'RE THE RESEARCHER HERE. I WOULD BE CURIOUS ON EACH OF THOSE FOR MY OWN KNOWLEDGE. YOU CAN JUST EMAIL ME IF YOU WANT TO. BUT HOW MANY DIFFERENT EMPLOYEES, BECAUSE I KNOW EACH TIME WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, LIKE THERE WAS SOMEWHERE IT WAS LIKE 177 EMPLOYEES. I'D JUST BE CURIOUS, ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT APPROVALS, LIKE, OR YOU KNOW, THE, THAT LIKE HOW MANY DIFFERENT JOBS WE'RE BRINGING INTO THE COMMUNITY. THAT'S, THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE A POSITIVE THING TO BE ABLE TO KNOW AND SAY THAT THAT ALONG WITH THESE APPROVALS, ASSUMING THEY COME TO FRUITION THESE BUSINESSES THAT, THAT WE'VE NOW ADDED 500 JOBS TO THE COMMUNITY OR WHATEVER. NOT THAT WE ARE, BUT THAT THEY ARE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? WE'RE SUPPORTING, YEAH. THAT WE'RE SUPPORTING. YEAH. 50 JOBS FOR THAT ONE. THANK YOU. YES, MA'AM. NEXT UP IS LAUREN FOR THE NEXT FOUR MATTER. AND LAUREN, WE, SOMEBODY THREW OUT A QUESTION AND THEY SAID LAUREN AND SOMEBODY ELSE ANSWERED IT FOR YOU. AND YOU LOOKED LIKE YOU WERE ON THE EDGE OF YOUR SEAT TO ANSWER. OH, I'M GOOD. DID YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING DIFFERENT? I'M GOOD. I'M GOOD. NO. OKAY. I STARTED CALLING ON YOU, BUT THEN WE MOVE ON. SO FIRST UP IS THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT. OUR REQUEST FOR A SUP SUBMITTED BY THE WARREN COUNTY COALITION FOR A LOBBYING HOUSE AT 5 0 6 NORTH WILL ADD MM-HMM . SO THIS IS THE SAME, UM, LOBBYING HOUSE APPLICATION OR SIMILAR TO THE OTHER TWO? UH, WITH THIS ONE, IT IS IN THE, UM, C ONE ZONING DISTRICT. THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO HAVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. BUT THIS IS THE PROPERTY. I THINK MOST OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH IT. UM, SO IT'S, YEAH, IT'S UH, UH, NORTH ROYAL AND THEN WEST FIFTH STREET. UM, IT'S THE, WHICH PARK? SO WITH THE, WITH THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION, PARKING'S GONNA BE THE BIGGEST, UM, ISSUE HERE. SO THEY'RE REQUESTING SIX BEDS, TYPICALLY FOR FOUR TO SIX, UM, OCCUPANTS. THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE THE MEN'S OR THE WOMEN'S SHELTER HERE. AND THEN THE MEN WILL, I GUESS WHAT THE OTHERS HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED. BUT THIS PARKS AT ONE SPACE PER ROOM OF TWO ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACES FOR EMPLOYEES. SO THEY'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE SIX PARKING SPACES. SO THIS IS THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY. THIS IS WHERE THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY IS GONNA BE WITH THE PARKING. UM, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE PLAT, THEY WILL HAVE SIX PARKING SPACES PROVIDED OFF THE ALLEY. THEY CAN GET SIX OR EIGHT CARS BY THERE. THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE OFF STREET PARKING. IT'S GONNA BE ON THEIR LOT. YEAH. BUT IN, IN, IN THE BACK IN THE BACKYARD. THAT'S ONE, THAT'S WHAT THIS IS SHOWING. SO YOU'VE GOT SIX PARKING SPACE THIS VERY SIMILAR TO ONE UP ON SOUTH ROYAL. APPLICANT WENT IN AND PUT A PARKING LOT, EVEN THOUGH WE, WE HEARD DURING THE THING THAT LIKE HOW MANY PEOPLE RECOVER HAVE CARS. BUT AGAIN, THE CODE, [01:10:02] IT'S THE SAME THING. SO THEY'RE MOVING THE WOMEN DOWN HERE OUT OF THE OVEN. THIS WOULD BE FOR WOMEN. AND UM, AND THE STATEMENT OF JUSTIFICATION, THEY EXPLAINED THAT THERE'S TYPICALLY A WAITING LIST FOR MEN WHERE THEY BEEN HOUSING BETWEEN FOUR TO SIX WOMEN. SO I THINK THIS, UM, STRUCTURE WILL BETTER SUIT THE NEEDS FOR WOMEN. YEAH. THEY'RE NOT MOVING. THE, THE WOMEN WERE WHAT THEY WERE GONNA HAVE IN THE OTHER MM-HMM . AND, BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE CENSUS, SO THEY HAD TO HAVE MEN. SO THEY'RE, THEY'VE NOT HAD WOMEN UNTIL NOW. I DON'T THINK I'M SEEING PEOPLE ON THAT. I JUST ASSUMED THEY HAD, I THINK THAT'S REP THAT'S 'CAUSE I, I REMEMBER HER TELLING ME THAT THEY HAVE DIFFICULTY GETTING WOMEN TO STAY BECAUSE OF THEIR KIDS AND STUFF. SO, SO THEY CHANGED IT TO MEN. SO BOTH PLACES ARE MEN NOW. UH, THE EXISTING ARE MEN, I BELIEVE. YEAH. DOWN . AND THEN, UM, P CHRISTIAN HAD THEIR PUBLIC HEARING AND THE ONLY CONDITION THEY PUT ON THIS WAS FOR THE PARKING. THAT WAS THAT THEY PROVIDED THE PARKING. JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, WAS THERE, WAS THERE ANY AT THE PUBLIC HEARING, DID ANYBODY COME TO SPEAK? THERE ARE SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT CAME TO, TO SPEAK. UM, BUT THEY WERE ALL IN FAVOR OF IT OR THEY USED THESE FACILITIES. WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY NO NAMES, ANYONE THAT SPOKE AGAINST IT. AND HONESTLY, WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY ZONING COMPLAINTS AGAINST THEIR OTHER FACILITIES. AND I'M NOT AWARE OF ANYTHING MORE THAN MERCHANT. MAYBE TWO CALLS AND THAT, WHAT, TWO YEARS THAT THEY'VE BEEN DOING THIS WITH THAT. SO, UM, YEAH, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYBODY SPEAK AGAINST, I THINK THE LAST COUPLE WE'VE APPROVED, MY DEPARTMENT HAD HAD ANY ISSUES WITH THESE. ONE LADY OWNED THE ADJACENT PROPERTY, WAS WORRIED ABOUT PARKING. WE HAD COMMERCIAL PEOPLE THAT WERE OPPOSING IT IN THE COMMERCIAL. OH, THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. NOBODY SPOKE PUBLICLY TO SPOKE. WELL, SHE DID, UH, REMEMBER HER BECAUSE I TRIED TO SAY, AND I ASKED THE QUESTION OF THE APPLICANT OR THE HOW MANY WE HAVE PARKED, THEY WOULDN'T BE PARKING THERE ANYWAY. THEY GOT 10 SPOTS. WHY WOULD, AND THEY CAN PARK ON THE STREET AND WALK THERE. SO NEXT, IF THERE'S, OH, SORRY, YOU GOT A QUESTION? SORRY. I WAS JUST GONNA ASK, IS THE PARKING LOT GONNA BE PAVED OR GRAVEL? UM, WITH THIS ONE, IF IT'S UNDER 4,500 SQUARE FEET, THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO KEEP IT GRAVEL. SO THEY SHOULD IT'LL BE IT THEM. YEAH, THEY'RE GONNA REMOVE THE TWO TREES MIGHT, BUT IT'S THEIR TREES. , THEIR TREES. WE COULD GO OUT THERE AND HUG THEM AND THEN SEE IF THEY'RE GONNA SAW US DOWN WITH I'M WITH YOU, WITH YOU. I LOVE TREES, BUT WAS JUST ASKING I EROSION THIS. NO, I'M NOT GOING BACK TO THE TREE LAST. THEY CAN PLANT SOME STRAIGHT TREES. . ALL RIGHT, MOVING ON TO FOUR D. PARDON ME. OH, I'M SO SORRY. BACK TO THE LAST ITEM ON STAFFORD. JUST FOR CLARIFICATION. CONSENT FOR BUSINESS FOR THE NEXT MEETING. WOULD YOU NEED, UH, COUNSEL'S PREFERENCE? ARE YOU READY TO MOVE THAT FORWARD? ARE YOU READY TO MOVE IT FORWARD? OH, THE, ABOUT THE WATER ISSUES YOU CAN TALK ABOUT BRINGING YEP. TO ANYBODY OPPOSED TO HAVING IT ON CONSENT WATER. THE WATER. THE WATER. YEAH. THE STAFFORD ONE. THE BUILDING, THE WAREHOUSE, THE 50 PEOPLE, THE 400, 4,500 GALLONS A DAY. SOUNDED LIKE THERE SOMETHING. IT WAS LITERALLY JUST THE LAST . I I'M OKAY WITH CONSENT. WELL, THE A COME NEXT WEEK IF WE WANT THE APPLICANT COME AND GRILL THEM. I DIGRESS, BABY. YOU DID TI THOUGHT THERE WAS ENOUGH CONSENT, BUT THAT'S ALL RIGHT. WE'LL, WE'LL INVITE THE APPLICANT. OKAY. ALL FOUR. ALL RIGHT. FOUR C GO AHEAD. YES, MA'AM. THE BUDGET AMENDMENT, IS THAT A BUSINESS ITEM OR A, OR IS THAT, THAT WAS THE AMENDMENT TRANSFER FOR THE, THE B CAMERA REVENUE? IS THAT A CONSENT OR BUSINESS ITEM? I'M FINE WITH CONSENT. I'M, I DON'T Y'ALL, I'M I'M OKAY WITH CONSENT. I MEAN, EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THE DISCUSSION. I MEAN, DISCUSSION WAS GOOD AND IT WAS EXPLAINED WELL TO US. CONSENT SOUNDS LIKE. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO CONSENT BRINGING THE APPLICANT, THE WARRANT, COALITION, LODGING HOUSE, IS THAT GONNA BE ON CONSENT? THAT'S A PUBLIC HEARING. SO SORRY, I WANNA ROLL. I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU. I'M TRYING TO GET A 14 ASKED ME. ALRIGHT, MOVING ON TO, I THINK WORD D SPECIAL USE PERMITS ME BY, IS IT DIVIN? DIM ON. OKAY. OH, ZILLION ACADEMY. AND THAT'S IN THE OLD TOWN HALL, RIGHT? YOU WANNA YES, GO AHEAD, JUMP IN THERE. THIS IS FOR A, THIS IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A PRIVATE SCHOOL, UM, IN THE [01:15:01] C TWO. SO THIS IS OUR DOWNTOWN, UM, LIKE STORE. THIS IS, UM, SO IT'S RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET. THE OLD FARM. YEP. , UNION STREET, NORTH ROYAL. UM, HERE'S THE FRONT OF THE STRUCTURE. HERE'S THE REAR. THERE'S ACTUALLY TWO STRUCTURES ON THE PROPERTY. UM, YOU KNOW, THE OLD, I GUESS WHAT WAS THE FIRE STATION IN TOWN LINE? OUR STATION IS IN THE FRONT, AND I'M ASSUMING THAT'S A GARAGE OR IT WAS A GARAGE AT ONE TIME. UM, SO THE ZONING ORDINANCE REQUIRES ALL SCHOOLS IN THIS DISTRICT TO BE BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT. UM, THE ONLY BIG ISSUES WOULD A SCHOOL OCCUPYING THAT PROPERTY OR THAT STRUCTURE WOULD BE PARKING THE DROP OFF TRAFFIC EXPERT. SO, UM, THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS ARE GOING TO BE BASED ON THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS, OR SORRY, THE NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES. AND THEN, UM, THE NUMBER OF SEATS IN THE ASSEMBLY AREA OR THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE PROPERTY. SO, UM, UNTIL STAFF KNOWS HOW MANY STUDENTS ARE GONNA BE IN THERE AND HOW MANY EMPLOYEES, I CAN'T TELL YOU THE EXACT AMOUNT MARK'S GONNA BE REQUIRED. FIVE. THEY SAID MORE THAN THEY'RE ASKING FOR 25. SO IF YOU CAP IT AT 25 WITH A CONDITION THAT HELPS, UM, TO SET THE, SO THAT'S JUST THE, DOES THE LINE ACROSS THE, THE ALLEY STILL GO WITH IT? SO THAT'S THE NEXT PART. SO THEY CAN, PER THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, LEASE PARKING SPACES WITHIN 300 FEET OF THE PROPERTY. UM, SO WHAT THEY'VE PROPOSED IS THAT THEY WOULD LEASE PARKING SPACES FROM ST. JOHN'S. ST. JOHNS OWNS THAT PARKING LOT BEHIND IT. NO, THE TOWN, I, I BELIEVE THE TOWN STILL THE TOWN PARKING LOT. BUT WHAT ABOUT FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH USED? IS THAT FOR THEIR DAYCARE DROP? AND WHAT ABOUT MATT? SO IT ISN'T IT IT'S BEHIND MADDOX, BUT IT IT WOULD BE THAT THAT PARKING AREA THAT UM, YEAH, I KNOW WHERE IT IS, BUT I, BUT I WAS TRYING TO THINK. THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT I'M A LITTLE WORRIED ABOUT IN, IN TERMS OF PARKING, UM, IS BECAUSE OF FUNERALS. BUT YOU KNOW, UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT, IN YOUR APPLICATION PACKET, THEY DID SUBMIT, UM, LIKE A SECONDARY STATEMENT OF JUSTIFICATION AND THEY GAVE THREE SEPARATE SCENARIOS MM-HMM . AS TO HOW THEY WOULD HANDLE PICKUP DROP OFF. THEY OFFERED STAGGERING. THEY SAID THAT STAFF WOULD, UM, BE PRESENT IN THE INTERSECTIONS AND THAT THEY WOULD BE ACCOMPANYING THE CHILDREN FROM THE PARKING AREA TO THE SCHOOL FACILITY. BUT THESE ARE GONNA BE FOR BOYS, UH, SEVENTH GRADE TO 12TH GRADE. SO 13 THEY DO IS WHEN THEY GET TO THE UPPER SCHOOL, THEY SEPARATE OUT THE MALE FROM THE MALE. SO THE FEMALE WILL STILL BE LOCATED ON LE RAY AVENUE AND THEN AT LIKE ST HEATED SIGN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. AND THEN THE MALES, THE BOYS CAN COME TO THE, IT'S LE RAY RIGHT BELOW THE MALE ON HIGH SCHOOL WHERE WE HAD THE ISSUES. SOME PEOPLE PILING UP IN WHATEVER AT YEAH, THAT'S AS FAR AS I KNOW, THAT'S BEEN RESOLVED. NO, NO, NO. AT THE, SO THAT'S THE ONLY THING I WAS GONNA SAY, NOT TO BE THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, BUT IT SAYS IN STAFF RECOMMENDATION, THE USE AS A SCHOOL LESSENS POTENTIAL TRAFFIC IMPACTS DUE TO PICK UP AND DROP OFF BEING TWICE A DAY FOR MONTHS OF YEAR. I KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT DROP OFF AND PICK UP AT SCHOOLS. AND I THINK IF YOU TALK TO ANYBODY AT ANY SCHOOL IN WARREN COUNTY, THAT'S A DROP OFF AND PICK UP, IT'S A NIGHTMARE. THAT'S HUNDREDS OF STUDENTS. THIS IS 25. IT IS. BUT I GOTTA TELL YOU, YOU GO UP THAT BACK ALLEY BEHIND BETWEEN, BEHIND FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH AND THEIR FELLOWSHIP HALL, UM, I MEAN THERE WAS A TIME WHERE THAT WAS A DANGER WHEN TOWN HALL WAS THERE. YEAH. I CAN REMEMBER LIKE PEOPLE, AND HONESTLY WE JUST HAD A MEMBER, A FIRST, FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH EMAIL US OR MESSAGE US OR POST IT ABOUT US. I CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT AVENUE THEY TOOK TO SHAME US FOR, UM, THE FACT THAT THEY FELT LIKE IT WAS FROGGER FOR THEM TO GO FROM THEIR CHURCH OVER TO THEIR FELLOWSHIP HALL. LIKE WHAT IS THAT, WHAT IS THAT ACTUAL NAME OF THAT STREET? IT THAT UNION STREET. UNION UNION STREET. I'M SORRY. YEAH. ALL THE WAY DOWN. I'M JUST SAYING LIKE THAT I MAIN TO, I MEAN THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT PIECE OF THE EQUATION CONCERNS ME AFTER YOU CROSS OVER BECAUSE THE SCHOOL THAT WAS DOWN ON, UM, LOU RAY, UM, I MEAN, I'M NOT GONNA LIE TO YOU, I HAD MULTIPLE, UH, WE HAVE SEVERAL RESIDENCES THAT WERE ON THAT STREET. IN FACT, ONE EVEN HAD ME COME DOWN THERE AT SCHOOL DROP OFF AND PICK UP TO WATCH. AND IT WAS, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A LOT OF CONFUSION GOING ON THERE. WELL, POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS CALLED ON THAT MULTIPLE TIMES. WELL, WE CHANGED OUR PARKING ALONG AVENUE RIGHT. TO [01:20:01] BECAUSE OF THE, THE BACKUP OF THE TRAFFIC AND BECAUSE THEY WOULD LET OUT, OF COURSE THE MI THE MIDDLE SCHOOL WOULD LET OUT. I MEAN YEAH, WE LET OUT THE SAME TIME. YEAH. YEAH. AND IT, AND THEY WOULD GO THROUGH THAT BACK BEHIND WHAT WE CALLED IT WAS CALLED BON AIR, BUT THEY WOULD GO BACK AND THEN IT WENT OVER INTO AN ALLEY THAT DROPPED OFF OVER ON STONEWALL. I BELIEVE THIS WOULD BE, I THINK TAKING SOME OF THOSE STUDENTS AND PUTTING THEM HERE. BUT THE REASON UP 25 THAT THIS COULD BE A, THAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY BE LESS THAN LIKE, LIKE IF YOU HAD A RESTAURANT THERE OR, OR SOME TYPE OF COMMERCIAL OR RETAIL, YOU'D HAVE PEOPLE IN AND OUT ALL DAY. SO THAT WAS THE, IN THE OLD TOWN HALL BUILDING? NO, I'M SAYING LIKE, THAT'S THE THEORY BEHIND SAYING THAT THIS COULD BE, UH, LESS IMPACTFUL. THESE YOU COMPARING THE TWO AS OPPOSED TO SOMETHING THAT COULD GO IN THERE LIKE A RESTAURANT OR SOMETHING. THAT WOULD BE, YOU MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE RIGHT. WHERE YOU HAVE PEOPLE IN AND OUT ALL DAY LONG. RIGHT. I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, BECAUSE I DOUBT THERE'S TOO MUCH GOING ON. WHERE ARE THEY GONNA, THEY'RE GONNA WALK OVER AND ACROSS TWO ALLEYS. SO THERE ARE CURRENTLY SIX PARKING SPACES AVAILABLE ON SITE. RIGHT. I THINK THREE OF THEM ARE HANDICAPPED. RIGHT. BUT WHAT THE KIDS WOULD DO IS THEY WOULD HAVE THE PARKING FROM THE CHURCH, SO THE KID, THEY WOULD PARK AT THE CHURCH WHERE WE DROPPED OFF AT THE CHURCH AND THE BEACH COMPANY TOO. HOTEL. MM-HMM . SUVS ARE SOMETHING THAT, UM, SUVS ARE SOMETHING THAT CAN BE PULLED BACK. CORRECT? YES, THEY CAN. I I'M JUST, I'M, I'M, I'M SAYING THAT IF SAFETY BECOMES AN ISSUE ON THAT STREET AND KIDS RUN A WHILE GOING BACK AND FORTH ACROSS, I'M JUST SAYING LIKE, I KNOW EVEN ON THE RAY AVENUE WE HAVE CROSSING GUARDS AND WELL, NO, NOT ON, THERE'S NO CROSSING GUARD ON THE RAY, IS THERE? YES, YES THERE IS ON LERE NOW. YEAH. I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S A MIDDLE SCHOOL AGE. I JUST, I SUGGEST, I JUST, I'M SAYING IF KIDS ARE GONNA BE WALKING UNATTENDED ACROSS UNION STREET AND ACROSS THE ALLEY FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL TO GET OVER TO WHERE SALE, SO WHAT YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING AT, IS THIS THE APPROPRIATE HERE AND IS THIS IMPACT IN THE NEIGHBORING DEVELOPMENT? LIKE IS THIS, DOES IT, ARE THERE NEGATIVE IMPACTS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS USE ON THE COMMUNITY? YOU'RE LOOKING AT HEALTH, SAFETY, WELFARE. IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS IS NOT APPROPRIATE, THAT'S WHERE YOU NEED MY CONDITIONS TO MITIGATE THE IMPACTS OR YOU KNOW, IT'S WITHIN THE . I JUST WAS THINKING THE CHURCH BEHIND IT AND THE DAYCARE BEHIND IT, BUT IT IS A SCHOOL, THE DAYCARE BEHIND THAT IS ALSO A SCHOOL. BUT THOSE KIDS ARE AT AN AGE WHERE THEIR PARENTS ARE PULLING IN, GETTING OUT, WALKING IN, OBVIOUSLY IDENTIFYING TO THE PEOPLE IN THE DAYCARE ROOM AND GETTING BACK IN THE CAR. I MEAN, I MEAN, IT'S GONNA BE, THEY'RE GOING PARK IN IN, IN THAT TOWN PARKING LOT. THERE'S NO, I MEAN THERE'S NO GONNA BECOME SOME SORT OF ENFORCEMENT ISSUE FOR US. THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING ABOUT AN SUP. MY WORRY IS A CHILD IS GONNA BE INJURED. REMORSE. WHAT? SOMEBODY SAID THAT THERE, THERE WAS AN INJURY OR A DEATH OR, OR A CHECKOUT THAT DID THAT. I DON'T REMEMBER. YES, IT DID HAPPEN. YEAH, THAT DID HAPPEN. BUT IT WAS IN THE PARKING LOT. IN THE PARKING, NOT THAT PARKING LOT. OH, OH, OKAY. YEAH. I MEAN THAT'S MY BIGGEST CONCERN. I MEAN, LIVING HERE ALL OF YOUR LIVES AND YOU KNOW THAT THAT'S A CUT THROUGH, THAT'S A CUT THROUGH TO GET TO THE MIDDLE SCHOOL UP THERE. IT'S A CUT THROUGH TO GET TO THE CHURCH AND THE BACK OF THE METHOD CITY AND EVERYWHERE ELSE. I JUST KNOW WHEN THAT WAS TOWN HALL, MISS PRESLEY WORKED THERE. WHEN THAT WAS TOWN HALL. LIKE THERE WAS, THERE WAS LIKE A LITTLE, LIKE, THERE'S STRIPES THERE, BUT IT'S, IT WAS SOMETHING TO GET FROM THE BACK OF TOWN HALL OVER TO THE PARKING LOT. IT WASN'T, IT IT WAS, I MEAN, AND YOU GUYS WERE ADULTS DOING IT. UM, NOT THAT, THAT'S AN EXCUSABLE THING THAT PEOPLE DO THAT I JUST THINK IT IS A CUT CREW. WELL, MANY TIMES ARE THEY GONNA USE THE FRONT? THEY'RE NOT. NO. IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE ALL NOT AT ALL. YEAH, THEIR PLAN SHOWED THAT, UM, ROUTE THROUGH THE, THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY. SO IT SHOWED THEM DROPPING OFF IN THAT PARKING LOT BEHIND. AND THEN, UM, FOR DROP OFF, LIKE CIRCULATING AROUND WELL, WIDE ENOUGH TO PARK IN FRONT ON NORTH ROYAL AVENUE THERE. I'D ALMOST RATHER THERE ONLY A FEW. I MEAN, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A LOT OF SPOTS. YOU, WE CAN, AT THE MIDDLE SCHOOL I DROP OFF AT SKYLINE AND WARREN AND PICK UP AT BOTH. YOU CAN ONLY DO TWO TO THREE CARS AT A TIME AT THE DROP OFF AND PICK UP. RIGHT. SO I WOULD RATHER THEM USE THE FRONT AND PULL OVER TO THIS SIDE AND MAKE A PERSON WALK THEM OUT. SEE, I THINK, AND YOU CAN ONLY EXIT ON THE RIGHT OF THE PARK IS PROBABLY AS THE PARENTS ARE GONNA GO THERE AND PARK AT THE PARKING LOT AND WAIT, AND THE KIDS ARE GONNA WALK. IF THEY'RE 13 TO 18, THEY NEED TO TUCK AND ROLL. THAT'S WHAT MY BOYS DO AT THE MIDDLE SCHOOL. THEY KNOW TO HAVE THEIR BOOK BAGS AND JACKETS AND SHOES ZIP UP WHEN WE GET UP TO OUR TURN. IT'S LIKE THEY'RE STORMING THE BEACHES. IS THE ONE, IS THE, UM, [01:25:01] IS THE SCHOOL THAT'S ON LE AVENUE, IS THAT THE SAME AGE, THE ONE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN THERE THE SAME AGE? MIDDLE SCHOOL AGE? WELL, ELEMENTARY GIRLS, BUT I THINK, I THINK YOU'VE GOT BOTH GENDER. YEAH. MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS JUST THE BUSINESSES AROUND THERE BECAUSE THE PARENTS, I MEAN, UNLESS THEY PUT UP SIGNS THAT SAY, YOU KNOW, NO SCHOOL TRAFFIC OR SOMETHING. I MEAN, I I I DARE SAY PARENTS ARE PROBABLY JUST GONNA BE LIKE, I'M DROPPING MY KID OFF AIR AND I SEE CARS LIKE HELL WITH IT. I'M GONNA PULL INTO THE WHATEVER SPOTS OPEN ALREADY PUT UP, YOU KNOW, AND SAY EXACTLY AND SAY, OKAY, GOING EVERY TWO MINUTES, YOU KNOW, OR PARKING THREE OPTIONS, YOU KNOW, AND THEN, OKAY. AND THE PREFERRED OPTION, MAYBE HARMLESS, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO GO DOWN MADDOX DRIVE OR WHATEVER. LANE UNION MADDOX? NO. OKAY. THEY'RE GONNA GO DOWN MADDOX LANE LANE THEN, THEN COME THROUGH WHERE THE TOWN PARKING LOT IS AND DROP THEIR KID OFF THERE. THEY'RE 13 TO 18-YEAR-OLD. SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE PARKING LOT ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE. OKAY. YEAH. THERE WERE THREE OPTIONS. RIGHT. OKAY. MM-HMM . THE WORST OPTION IS NUMBER THREE IS THE ONE WHERE, WHERE THEY ZOOM IN IN THE LITTLE ALCO AREA AND LET THE CAR OUT AND THEN SOMEBODY'S GOTTA COME OUT. MORE LIKELY A CRASH COULD HAPPEN THERE. I I, YOU KNOW, THE NUMBER ONE WITH, AND THEY, AND THEY WERE OFFERING, UH, UM, SCHOOL GUARDS THERE TO, TO FLAG 'EM TO STOP THE TRAFFIC SO THAT THEY CAN WALK ACROSS THAT SHORT LITTLE, UH, STREET, UNION STREET. SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I DON'T, I DON'T SEE THAT AS A, A PROBLEM, THE NUMBER ONE IF IN FACT IT DOESN'T CREATE A PROBLEM FOR THE DAYCARE AND YOU KNOW, FUNERAL HOME. FUNERAL HOME FUNERAL. HONEST. THESE ARE STAGGER, IT'S STAGGER ALREADY. UNITED METHODIST, THEY'RE STAGGERED. THEY DON'T, THEY DON'T HAVE A PRESCHOOL ANYMORE. SO THAT CHURCH, THAT CHURCH IS PARKING LOT, WHICH IS RIGHT BESIDE A FIRST BAPTIST BECAUSE THERE'S NO DAYCARE ANYMORE THERE OR PRESCHOOL. THERE IS THAT. NO, THERE ISN'T. THERE HAVEN'T BEEN FOR MANY YEARS. UM, THAT WHOLE PARKING LOT IS EMPTY OTHER THAN THE PASTOR OR THE SECRETARY. BUT YES. BUT A SCHOOL DROP OFF THERE WHEN I'VE BEEN, WELL, THERE WAS, BUT I DON'T, I DON'T, I JUST WENT FOR PO THAT'S CAME HYDRATE. P YEAH. I JUST CAME THROUGH LAST WEEK AND THERE WAS A SCHOOL DROPPING OFF A BUNCH OF KIDS IN THE PARKING LOT. YEAH. BUT AT LEAST THEY HAD, BUT THEY GO IN AND, AND THEY COME OFF OF MAINE TOO. I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, BUT WHEN THERE IS A FUNERAL THERE OH YEAH. EVERY PARKING LOT AROUND, INCLUDING THE ONE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IS USED. BUT YOU KNOW, I MEAN THAT'S NOT OUR, I JUST WANNA SAY ONE THING THAT YOU JUST SAID ABOUT THE ULTIMATE, THE BEST WAY, THE BEST OPTION IS THE THIS NUMBER OPTION. IF ONLY PEOPLE WOULD FOLLOW THAT OPTION. YEAH. I'M JUST SAYING WE, WE'VE HAD THE SAME DROP OFF FOR ALL 25 YEARS. THAT HILL JAY IS OPEN AND PEOPLE KNOW EXACTLY WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GO. AND WHEN THEY'RE RUNNING LATE TO WORK, THEY TRY TO GO IN THE BUS LANE AND YOU KNOW THAT, THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. YOU KNOW, I, I MEAN IT'S THEIR PROPERTY AND THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO, IF THEY WANNA BUY THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE THE PROPERTY. UM, BUT YOU SAID LIKE IT SHOULDN'T CAUSE A PROBLEM FOR OTHERS. UM, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS KIDS AREN'T CROSSING RURAL AVENUE WITHOUT, AND I MEAN WE CAN'T MAKE PEOPLE DO THE RIGHT THING. BUT IF IT'S AN SUP, THAT'S, THAT WAS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO ASK IN THE BEGINNING IS IF THERE'S AN SUP AND THEN WE VISIT THIS IN A YEAR AND SAY, OH MY GOODNESS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S MASSIVE PROBLEMS THERE. WE CAN'T, WE CAN'T GO BACK. RIGHT. POTENTIALLY. WELL TALKING TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. TIME AND ALL TALKING ABOUT, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT UH, WE TALKING ABOUT REVOKING THE SUP? YES. VERSUS SUNSET LIKE WE DID. YEAH. LIKE WE DID WITH THE HOTEL THING WHERE WE SAID OKAY, IN TWO YEARS, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS EVERYTHING'S GOING OKAY, WE CAN KEEP GOING. I IS E WILSON SPITTING OUT E WILSON SPITTING OUT THERE TOO. WILSON COMES OUT OVER HERE, BIG CRESCENT AND NO, THEY COME UP AND POP OUT ON CRESCENT. WELL, BUT YOU'RE GONNA BUT THE TOWN PARKING LOTS ACROSS THE STREET FROM HER STATE TOO. WELL SOME MARS AND CROSSES RIGHT THERE. MM-HMM . YEAH. WELL THAT'S NO, THAT'S TRUE. THAT'S UNION STREET IS EXTENDED. YEAH. THE BACK WHEN YOU CROSS OVER AVENUE, THAT'S UNION STREET EXTENDED. SO I'M TALKING ABOUT WHERE THE TOWN EMPLOYEES CAN PARK, WHICH IS THE OLD BANK PARKING LOT. [01:30:01] SO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION WAS THAT YOU HAVE THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS, IT'S BASICALLY 50 50 MORE CARS A DAY. WELL CAN WE THAT EVERY, I KNOW I MAY MEETS IN THE BAPTIST PAUL ONCE A WEEK, HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS MULTIPLE TIMES DINNER TOGETHER EVERY THURSDAY. REMEMBER UNDER, UH, KALE, WE HAD THE SPEED MONITOR THERE. I DON'T KNOW IF IT COLLECTS DATA AND TELLS YOU HOW MANY CARS, HOW FAST IT'S GOING. BUT I KNOW EVEN THERE IN THE MORNING, YOU BETTER HAVE YOUR HEAD ON A SW. YEAH. WELL ONE OTHER THING TO MENTION IS THAT AGE RANGE, A LOT OF THOSE STUDENTS SHOULD BE DRIVING 18. YEAH. HALF OF THAT AGE RANGE IS GONNA THEM DRIVING, UM, PARKING, WOULDN'T THAT PART OF IT? THE, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE GONNA LEASE PARKING. IT IS THE PARKING LOT THERE. I'M ASSUMING THE ONE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IS BEHIND THE PARISH HALL, RIGHT? UH, IT'S ON THAT , BUT IT'S BEHIND THE, IT'S ON BACK TO THE, SO I BELIEVE THE PARKING LOT THAT THEY'RE GONNA BE LEASING IS BACK, THAT'S THE FUNERAL HOME, RIGHT? IT'S BACK OVER HERE. YEAH, IT'S BEHIND THEIR PARA SHOP. RIGHT. SO THE KIDS WOULD BE WALKING, THEY'D BE EITHER WALKING THIS WAY, UH, WE'VE GOT SIDEWALKS HERE, BUT I'M ASSUMING THIS WOULD BE QUICKER 'CAUSE THEY'D JUST COME OUT THIS WAY AND WALK OVER. SO THEY'RE GONNA WALK THROUGH THE PARKING LOT OF THE FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH WHERE ALL THE DAYCARE PEOPLE ARE. YEAH, WELL THAT'S MADDOX THAT YOU JUST WALKED AT AWAY. WALK BEHIND. BUT IT'S BEHIND. IT'S TO, IT'S WHERE ALL THE PEOPLE PARKED FOR THE DINNER TOGETHER AND THE DAYCARE DROP OFF. I KNOW. 'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE I DROPPED TOP OF MY KNEES ARROW DISTANCE TO PROPOSE THAT PARKING LOT DOWN NEAR THE BOTTOM. MM-HMM . THERE IT IS RIGHT HERE. 200, UH, 32 FEET. YEAH. NO, I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT GONNA KNOW. THEY'RE NOT GONNA KNOW THERE'S A PROBLEM UNTIL, UNTIL THEY START IMPLEMENTING IT AND SEE HOW IT GOES. SO I DON'T KNOW THAT, UM, I MEAN I THINK WE, WE HAVE TO LET THEM ASSESS IT A LITTLE BIT, UM, AND THEN HAVE THE OPTION TO CHANGE IT. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE SCHOOL ACROSS FROM MY HOUSE. THERE'S A LITTLE, LITTLE SCHOOL AND WHEN IT FIRST OPENED, TRAFFIC WAS IMPACTED NOT IN A NICE WAY AND THEY REDID IT, ANNOUNCED, YOU KNOW. OKAY. NO, WE DON'T LEASE THE TOWN'S PARKING LOT TO THE FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH. IT'S JUST ANYBODY. RIGHT. IT'S A MUNICIPAL PARKING LOT. IT'S A MUNICIPAL PARKING LOT. MM-HMM . SO TECHNICALLY THEY COULD PARK IN THERE TOO. YES. THAT'S I SAID EARLIER. YEAH. SO THE DAYCARE AND THEY WOULD BE FIGHTING OVER THE SAME SPOT. YEAH. I MEAN, IT'S BETTER THAN A VACANT BUILDING. AND THERE IS A, THERE IS A NEED RIGHT NOW. FOLKS ARE LOOKING FOR PRIVATE SCHOOL OPTIONS. SO I I I DON'T DOUBT THAT. I JUST WONDER IF THIS IS THE RIGHT LOCATION. YEAH. GIVEN THE TRAFFIC. THAT'S WHY I'D LIKE FOR THE CHIEF TO AT LEAST LOOK AT IT AND COME BACK TO US BEFORE DECIDE. SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE QUESTIONS. WE SHOULD PROBABLY TABLE IT AND THEN BRING IT BACK AFTER WE GET MORE INFORMATION, SPECIFIC QUESTIONS. IT WOULD BE ADVANTAGEOUS TO EMAIL STAFF SO WE CAN GET THAT TO THE APPLICANT. 'CAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK HERE AT THESE WORK SESSIONS. YOU WON'T HEAR FROM THEM UNTIL THE PUBLIC HEARING. RIGHT. WELL, AND BEFORE I GO TO THE PUBLIC HEARING, I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT OUR CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER HAS TO SAY ABOUT IT. I I HIS OPINION. ABSOLUTELY. CAN YOU EMAIL US? I THINK HE ALREADY STATED HIS QUESTION. RIGHT. YOU, YOU WERE REQUESTING THAT SOMEBODY FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT BE ON UNION STREET AROUND DROP OFF PICKUP TIMES THAT WE WOULD ASSUME AND JUST SEE WHAT THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC, UH, AND ALSO SEE IF THERE'S ANY RECORD FROM WHEN THEY PUT THE ENFORCEMENT READER THERE IS WHAT, UH, CHIEF MCHA HAS CALLED IT. I DON'T KNOW IF IT, IF WE HAVE A RECORD DURING THIS TIME PERIOD. WE HAD THIS THING HERE AND THEY WERE GOING 40 MILES AN HOUR UNDER CARS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT SAYS, BUT IT'S LOT TO WALK. I CAN'T JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY TOO WILL BE SURROUNDING PLACES THEY, BECAUSE THERE'S AN SUP AND THERE IS A SIGN OUT FRONT. THERE'S TWO SIGNS. RIGHT. I KNOW. AND BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ASKING WHAT'S GOING IN THERE AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THE FUNNIES, YOU CAN ONLY IMAGINE WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. RIGHT. UM, YEAH. UM, SO I WAS JUST SAYING LIKE THAT THE FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH, MADDOX, THE FRONTLINE UNITED METHODIST CHURCH, THEY, THAT THEY WOULD BE AWARE TOO TO BE ABLE TO COME AND SPEAK AT THE PUBLIC HEARING. THEY, [01:35:01] THEY SHOULD HAVE ALL BEEN NOTIFIED. RIGHT. THEY GET A LETTER LETTERS. RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING. YEAH. I JUST HOPE IT WENT TO LIKE THE RIGHT PERSON. YEAH, IT DIDN'T JUST SHOULD THE AJO PROPERTY OWNERS RIGHT LINE. CAN WE TABLE THIS UNTIL, YEAH, THAT'S WHY I JUST SAID, UM, WE TABLE IT. WELL, WE HAVE A MEETING NEXT MONDAY IF WE THINK WE'LL HAVE ENOUGH TIME. IS THAT TOO SOON? DO YOU WANT US TO, DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD? IS THAT TOO SOON FOR YOU TO GET ANY KIND OF DATA? I WILL GET THE MACHINE SET UP THERE TOMORROW AND START. YOU SURE WE ATE? WE'LL TABLE IT UNTIL, UM, WE'LL TABLE IT UNTIL NEXT MONDAY. OKAY. AND STAFF IS STILL RECOMMENDING CING THE NUMBERS THAT I WOULD STILL RECOMMEND THAT YOU PUT SOME RESTRICTION ON THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THOUGH OUT THEY MAY ULTIMATELY OUTGROW THIS. WELL, THE IMPACT OF 25 STUDENTS IS GONNA BE GIVEN THEM THE IMPACT OF 50 STUDENTS. AND I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE UNDER MY PURVIEW THE ABILITY TO CONTROL LIKE CERTIFICATE. SO I DON'T, THAT'S THE COUNTY, THE COUNTY IS GOING TO DETERMINE THE OCCUPANCY RATE. UM, ANYTHING BUILDING RELATED. SO WITHOUT THAT BEING UNDER MY PURVIEW, I, YEAH, I THINK IF YOU CAP IT, THAT GIVES COME FROM CONTROL. GEORGE, ARE WE OKAY TO CAP CAP IT? BUT THEN AGAIN, WHO'S GONNA GO IN THERE ON THE GIVEN DAY AND COUNT? WELL, THAT'S THE THING. IF WE GET A COMPLAINT THAT GIVES US THE GROUNDS TO SAY, HEY, HOW MANY CHILDREN DO YOU HAVE ENROLLED HERE? AND IF THEY'RE IN VIOLATION, THEN THAT GIVES ME THREE FORCE TO BRING BACK SPECIAL. I MEAN, I'M THINKING OF THE SIZE OF THE TOWN HALL AND I MEAN, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING 25 STUDENTS, TO ME THAT'S REALLY ONE CLASS, RIGHT? ONE CLASS. THE STUDENTS. SO I, I IMAGINE THE OCCUPANCY 13 TO 18 GONNA BE SIX DIFFERENT GRADES AND THERE'S PROBABLY GONNA MULTI-GRADE BE YEAH, I THINK THEY CAN IN SOME OF THESE SCHOOLS. I MEAN YOU'RE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT LIKE SEVEN KIDS IN A CLASS. THEY'RE VERY, THEY'RE SMALLER CLASSROOMS. IT'S NOT LIKE PUBLIC 10 HALL THREE FOURS, DOESN'T IT? IT DOES HAVE 3, 3 4. YEAH. THEY'RE DESIGNED TO GIVE HER, UM, UH, JUST TO, FOR THE PUBLIC'S KNOWLEDGE, SOME PEOPLE ARE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THIS BUILDING BELONGS TO THE TOWN AND WHY ARE WE DOING, OR WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH IT? WE DO NOT OWN THIS. THAT IT, IT WAS THE OLD TOWN HALL. WE NO LONGER HAVE ANY TOWN DOES NOT OWN. YEAH. WE DON'T OWN IT. THIS IS TOTALLY SEPARATE. UM, UH, L IN EXCHANGE FOR RIGHT. DON'T ON THAT ONE WE HAVE TO KEEP GIVING. YEP. TWO EYES. ALL RIGHT. FOUR E ON. AND I WILL SAY WE'LL TABLE THAT. SO WE'LL BRING IT BACK NEXT WEEK, EVEN AFTER NEXT WEEK. UM, WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO, DO A PUBLIC HEARING ON THAT UNTIL JUNE. I, I'M JUST SAYING JUST FOR, JUST SO Y'ALL ARE AWARE, FOUR E IS THE ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS IN THE FRONT TOWN. FOR 1 75 DASH 1 37 PERTAIN THE FEES, CHARGES AND EXPENSES. UM, IN YOUR, I GUESS YOUR PACKET, YOU HAVE THESE CHARTS THAT SHOW THE NEW FEES, BUT IF YOU SCROLL THROUGH IT, YOU'D LIKE TO COMPARE AS I TALK. UM, IT'S GOT THE NEW FEES JUXTAPOSED THE OLD FEES. SO THAT'S UP TO YOU. YEAH. UM, SO ESSENTIALLY THESE ARE THE FEES FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING DEPARTMENT. SO CHAPTER 1 75 AND THEN CHAPTER 1 48 ARE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE. MOST OF THESE FEES WERE AMENDED BACK IN 2020, BUT SOME OF THEM HAVEN'T BEEN TOUCHED SINCE 2012. UM, SO WHAT STAFF AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION HAVE DONE JUST MAKE CHANGES IS THAT ANY OF THE FEES WHERE WE WERE AT LEAST NOT BREAKING EVEN AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, APPLICATIONS REQUIRING PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEW, OR SOME TYPE OF BOARD REVIEW, UM, THOSE WERE BROUGHT UP TO A LEVEL WHERE, UH, THE BOARD MEMBERS COULD BE PAID AND THE ADVERTISEMENTS COULD BE SENT OUT WITH THAT FEE. WE DIDN'T GO ABOVE AND BEYOND. THESE ARE NOT, WE'RE NOT MAKING A PROFIT. THESE ARE JUST BREAKEVEN FEES. UM, THE COMMENT I HAVE WHEN I BOOK THE ADDRESS I NOTE, UM, IS I SAW SPECIAL USE PERMIT SHORT TERM RENTAL, AND THAT'S $200 MORE THAN A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. AND MY, AND THE, THE FIRST THING I THOUGHT OF IS IT'S $1,200. PEOPLE ARE JUST GONNA DO IT AND NOT TELL YOU ABOUT IT. THEY'RE ALREADY DOING IT. RIGHT. BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS MAKING IT EVEN HIGHER IS NOT GONNA, WHAT, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WHEN OR WHAT WAS WAS THAT ONE? THAT ONE REQUIRES A GOOD BIT OF STAFF TIME. SO THAT'S STAFF GOING OUT AND WE HAVE TO DO AT LEAST TWO INSPECTIONS. SO WE HAVE TO DO A WALKTHROUGH OF THE PROPERTY TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE WITH, UM, WITH LIKE THE SMOKE DETECTORS AND HAVING THEIR, UM, THEIR [01:40:01] SAFETY PLANS FOR THEIR, THEIR EMERGENCY EVACUATION. UM, WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE BINDER, MAKE SURE EVERYTHING'S THERE, AND THEN WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE ADEQUATE PARKING. UM, SO IT'S TYPICALLY LIKE ONE OR TWO INSPECTIONS THAT WE DO FOR EACH OF THESE APPLICATIONS. AND FOR YOUR AVERAGE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT? WELL, WE'LL GO OUT AND MAYBE, MAYBE DO A SITE VISIT, BUT TYPICALLY WE DON'T HAVE TO FOR THE SPECIAL USE PERMITS. SO RIGHT NOW THE FEE IS $400. THAT DOES NOT COVER THE COST OF SITTING PLANNING COMMISSION IN THIS ROOM ONCE, LET ALONE THE TWO TIMES THAT THEY MEET PER MONTH. I MEAN THEY GET PAID ONCE A MONTH, BUT THEY MEET TWICE A MONTH. LAUREN, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE UH, COUNTY CHARGES FOR THE, WELL, MAYBE JOE KNOWS, I THINK REMEMBER 17, THEY, THEY JUST RAISED THEM. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR RATES ARE AFTER I LEFT. SO I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. I THINK ONE OF THEM IT'S BETWEEN 16, $1,700 FOR CONDITION USE PERMIT. LAST TIME I CHECKED SHORT TERM RENTAL IS MORE EXPENSIVE. TRYING TO GET MONEY MORE. I CAN YEAH. BUT THAT, BUT I WILL SAY ONE THING AND THAT HASN'T SLOWED ANYBODY DOWN WITH THE COUNTY. THEY'RE DOING IT EVERY MEETING. AND WE'VE ONLY HAD TWO APPLICATIONS THIS YEAR. THE SHORT TERM RENTAL APPLICATIONS HAVE SLOWED DOWN A LOT. SO WHEN WE INITIALLY PASSED THAT, UM, ORDINANCE, WE HAD A LARGE INFLUX OF THEM, BUT WE HAVEN'T HAD IT THE FIRST INITIAL. SEE THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING ALONG. I KNEW WE WOULD BE FLOOD IT. FIRST PERCENTAGE OF THOSE PROBABLY THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT EVEN OPERATE AS YEAH. PEOPLE ARE LEARNING THAT. IT'S NOT AS EASY AS YOU THINK IT IS. YEAH. OR THEY'RE, AS LAUREN SAID, THEY'RE DOING IT NOT, NOT LETTING ANYBODY KNOW PEOPLE WERE DOING IT BEFORE WE EVER EVEN DONE THE, BUT I KNEW BEFORE WE CAN GO TO AIRBNB AND SEE LIKE FRONT WELL, OKAY, BUT THAT'S ACTUALLY, YEAH, THAT'S THE PROBLEM IS BECAUSE WE HAD PEOPLE COMPLAIN TO US THAT THEY SAW THEIR SOMEBODY'S HOUSE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WAS ON AIRBNB, BUT YET THEY DIDN'T HAVE A, DIDN'T KNOW. IS THAT AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE THOUGH? IT'S A TRICKY ENFORCEMENT ISSUE. MM-HMM . YEAH. YEAH. BUT THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN ALWAYS, YES. SO THE COUNTY IS, FOR SHORT TERM SOURCE RENTALS IS 1750. AND FOR REGULAR FOR PROFIT CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS IS 1500. USED TO BE 500. THANK YOU. YOU GOTTA THINK. SOME PEOPLE MAKE THAT IN A MONTH OFF OF THESE SHORT TERM RENTAL. AND IT IS A ONE, IT'S A ONE TIME FEE, NOT A ONE TIME FEE. BUT, BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT OUR STAFF COULD GO DO AN INSPECTION EACH YEAR, RIGHT? ISN'T THAT OR NO, WE DON'T DO ANNUAL. NO, I KNOW, BUT YOU, BUT IF THERE'S ANY COMPLAINTS, THERE'S A COMPLAINT, THEN THEY HAVE TO GO BACK AND, AND YOU KNOW, CHECK IT OUT. IT'S JUST NOT ONE AND DONE. IT IS A ONE AND DONE LESS AND LESS AND DONE. BUT YOU COULD BE CALLED BACK. YES. YES, YES. AND SO WITH THESE FEES IN GENERAL, ANYTIME STAFF HAS TO GO OUT AND DO AN INSPECTION, WE UP THE FEES BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE ALSO, THERE'S VEHICLES THAT WE USE, GAS, THINGS LIKE THAT. ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE FACTORED IN PLUS TIME IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, FOR US TO JUST RUN OUT AND LIKE SAY DO A CHICKEN INSPECTION, YOU DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA BE A THING. BUT THAT CAN BE 45 MINUTES TO AN CHICKEN COME UP AGAIN. AND WE HAVE 48 OF THOSE THAT WE HAVE TO GO AND DO INSPECTIONS FOR TO BE 49 AFTER I USED ALL THOSE EXIT. ALSO TOO, THE ADVERTISEMENT, I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT. HAVEN'T THE, HAVEN'T THE ADVERTISEMENT COST IN THE PAPER GONE UP. THAT'S WAY THEY STAND UP AND POSTAGE AND, AND POSTAGE OF LETTING ALL THE, SO YOU KNOW, SADLY AS EVERYTHING GOES UP, SO DO, DO HE I HAVE LESS OF A CONCERN PASSING THAN SOMEONE BECAUSE IT'S A FOR-PROFIT COST. IT'S NOT LIKE, OH, I OWN MY VEHICLE TO THE COMMONWEALTH TO MAKE ME PAPER SOME PROPERTY TAXES. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE PROFITING OFF OF IT. THEY HAVE THE EXPENDABLE INCOME TO BE ABLE TO OPERATE. MM-HMM . AND THIS ISN'T IMPACTING ALL OF YOUR TAX PAYERS. THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING IN FOR UTILIZING IT. SO IT'S NOT GETTING PASSED ALONG. THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOING BUT THE L-B-B-C-A THAT DIDN'T GO UP, WE PUT IT THAT WAS 400 BEFORE. THAT HASN'T GONE OUT. THAT BOARD FEE SHOULD BE, THAT SHOULD BE EVEN. RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT. BUT I'M SAYING THOUGH THAT, THAT SOME OF THESE DIDN'T GO UP IN SOME, NOT ALL OF THEM DID. AND THEN WHAT PLANNING COMMISSION WAS ALSO CONCERNED WITH IS THEY WANTED TO HAVE A 25% FEE REDUCTION OF REGULAR FEES FOR NON-PROFITS. 'CAUSE WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF NON-PROFITS. AND TYPICALLY WHAT THEY'LL DO IS THEY'LL ASK FOR A WAIVER. THEY'LL ASK FOR A WAIVER TO COUNSEL, BUT WE ALSO BUILT THIS IN BECAUSE DO THE WORK. YEAH. AND THEN, UM, WELL I THINK THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD THING FOR US TO ENTERTAIN AT SOME POINT TOO, IS THAT JUST TO TAKE OFF THE WHOLE IDEA OF A WAIVER MM-HMM . AND, AND TAKE IT RIGHT OUTTA COUNCIL'S HANDS. IT'S HERE IT IS. THIS IS WHERE IT IS. AND, AND IF WE BUILT IN A 25% DISCOUNT FOR NONPROFITS, THEN WE'RE ACKNOWLEDGING THE [01:45:01] NONPROFITS LIKE WE'RE VALUING THEM. SO, AND THE DOUBLING OF THE ZONING FEES, IF THERE'S A VIOLATION THAT'S, THAT'S NOT CHANGING. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DO NOW. SO LIKE IF THEY DO WORK IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT OR THEY PUT UP A SHED WITHOUT GETTING A PERMIT, WE AUTOMATICALLY DOUBLE THOSE PRICES WHEN THEY COME IN. MEANING, AND THEY'VE ALREADY DONE IT. YES. SO IF THEY'VE DONE IT WITHOUT GETTING A PERMIT INSTEAD OF A $25 PERMIT, HERE'S YOUR CONSEQUENCE. WAS THERE, WAS THERE ALWAYS A, UH, A FEE FOR CENSUS FOR RESIDENTIAL? YEAH, SO THAT FALLS UNDER JUST A MINOR ZONING PERMIT IN THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS. UM, AND THE FEE IS THE SAME, WHETHER IT'S RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL WITH FENCES, WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT, IF IT'S COMMERCIAL USE, THEY GO A LITTLE TALLER. UM, AND THEN THERE WERE USES THAT WEREN'T, WE WEREN'T CHARGING FOR AT ALL OR ITEMS THAT WEREN'T CHARGED. SO ZONING DETERMINATIONS, THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF STAFF RESEARCH AND TIME. UM, WE NOW HAVE A FEE FOR THAT BUILT IN. AND THEN BUSINESS LICENSES WE WEREN'T CHARGING FOR OUR REVIEW BUSINESS LICENSES AND THAT WAS 10, 15% OF THE PERMITS THAT WE ISSUED LAST YEAR THAT WE WEREN'T TAKING IN ANY FEE FOR. THAT'S THE ZONE AGAIN. DO YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT ZONING BEFORE WE GO TO SUBDIVISION? NO. OKAY. SO THEN WITH THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, UM, THE BIGGEST CHANGE HERE IS FOR THE SITE DEVELOPMENT PLANS. THE, UM, AND THEN THE, UM, MAJOR SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN. UM, THE RATIONALE BEHIND THAT THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR THE FIRST AND SECOND SUBMISSION AND THEN CHARGING FOR THE ADDITIONAL SUBMISSIONS IS SO THAT THESE ENGINEERS LIKE THAT, THEY FOLLOW OUR CHECKLIST. SO WHEN THEY APPLY, WE SEND OUT A CHECKLIST, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO SIGN IT AND CHECK OFF THAT THEY FOLLOW THE ITEMS IN THERE THAT THEY COMPLIED WITH THEM. WHAT'S HAPPENING IS WE'RE SEEING THIRD AND FOURTH, FIFTH SUBMISSIONS WHERE THEY'RE NOT COMPLYING WITH THE CHECKLIST, BUT EACH TIME THAT HAPPENS, WE'RE ROUTING IT OUT TO OTHER AGENCIES AND OTHER DEPARTMENTS AND IT'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME. SO THIS IS TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO FOLLOW THE CHECKLIST. YES. THAT'S WHY I SAY STUART FIRST TIME, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MAJOR AND MINOR? SO THE MAJOR IS ANYTHING OVER EIGHT LOTS. MINOR IS EIGHT LOTS. WHAT, TELL ME AGAIN, I KNOW THIS, BUT I MI MINOR MAJOR, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO, OH, SORRY. EIGHT DIFFERENT. SORRY, EIGHT TALKING. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. EIGHT. SO LIKE THAT BIG ABOUT LIKE HANOCK FROM LAST WEEK, IT'S LIKE 1000 FOR THE FIRST ONE BECAUSE THAT'S MAJOR SUBS. 1000 AND 1000 AGAIN. AND THEN ANYTHING AFTER THAT TIME, IT'S 1000 FOR THE FIRST AND SECOND. SO THEY GET TO SUBMIT IT. WE'LL ISSUE COMMENTS, THEY CAN COME BACK. IT DOESN'T FOR BOTH, NOT 1000 FOR EACH. BUT THEN AFTER THAT, IF WE GET TO A THIRD, FOURTH, FIFTH SUBMISSION, IT'S GONNA BE 500 EACH TIME. RIGHT. AND THE WAY OUR ORDINANCE IS WRITTEN, THAT SUBDIVISION, UM, DEVELOPMENT PLAN, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE A VERY WATERED DOWN SITE PLAN. OURS IS NOT. IT'S BASICALLY A SITE PLAN MINUS ENS AND THE STORM WATER. AND THEN THEY GOTTA PAY AGAIN DOWN AT THE SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN. YEP. SO THE SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN IS, UM, FIRST THEN THEY DO THE PLAT, THEN THEY DO THE SITE DEVELOPMENT PLAN. SO THERE'S THREE STEPS WHERE THEY'RE PAYING BEFORE THEY GET TO MOVE ANY DIRT. AND THAT'S JUST US. THAT'S NOT, AND THAT'S STANDARD. THAT'S NOT US DEVELOPMENT THAT IS STANDARD ACROSS THE STATE ABOUT THAT AMOUNT. YEAH. SO WE COMPARED A LOT OF THESE PRICES WITH ALL THE OTHER JURISDICTIONS THAT ARE AROUND US. WE'RE STILL COMING IN LOWER THAN THE MAJORITY OF 'EM. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS? UM, SO THAT IS A PUBLIC HEARING. AND ARE YOU ALL OKAY WITH HAVING THAT PUBLIC HEARING ON MAY 27TH FOR THAT ONE? YES. RIGHT. I'M OKAY. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S FOR E ALRIGHT. THIS WAS SOME WORK OF THE PLANNING EXHIBITION. MM-HMM . OKAY. JOB. AND THE NEXT ONE FOR IS A PROPOSED TAX AMENDMENT TO PERMIT LODGING HOUSES IN THE R ONE ZONING DISTRICT FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. PERMIT. YEAH. SO THIS WAS A TEXT AMENDMENT THAT WAS SUBMITTED. UM, AND SO IN OUR CODE BOING HOUSES ARE BASICALLY LIKE A RESIDENTIAL BUILDING THAT'S BEEN CONVERTED INTO, YOU KNOW, LIKE SHORT TERM STAY. SO [01:50:01] THESE ARE PROVIDED FOR COMPENSATION, UM, BUT THEY'RE NOT OPEN TO LIKE PUBLIC OR TRANSIENT DESK MEALS ARE PROVIDED, BUT THERE'S NO INDIVIDUAL LIKE HOOKING IN THE, THE ROOMS. UM, AND THEN THE NUMBER OF ROOMS IS CAPPED AT 10. SO THEN OUR CODE CALLS LODGING HOUSES, UM, ROOMING HOUSES OR BOARDING HOUSES. SO THE NAMES ARE USED IN ALTERNATE, BUT WITH THIS TEXT APPLICANT, SORRY, AMENDMENT IS PROPOSING IS THAT THIS USE WOULD BE PERMITTED AS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN THE R ONE DISTRICT. IF THE LOT IS THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE LOT, WHICH THERE'S LIKE MINIMAL HOUSES IN THE TOWN ONES, THERE ARE VERY FEW LOTS THAT THIS WOULD APPLY TO. UM, PLANNING COMMISSION DID RECOMMEND DENIAL BASICALLY BECAUSE THE STATEMENT OF THE R ONE DISTRICT, UM, PROHIBITS MOBILE HOMES OR ROOMING HOUSES. THE OTHER END OF THAT IS THAT IT DOES PERMIT BED AND BREAKFAST BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT, WHICH ISN'T THAT DIFFERENT THAN A LODGE IN HOUSE. UM, OTHER THAN THEY PROVIDING THAT. SO, UM, THAT WAS PLANNING COMMISSIONS FOR RATIONAL QUESTION. I'M SORRY, CAN YOU SPEAK UP A LITTLE LOUDER FOR ME? WHAT PLANNING COMMISSION DID NOT APPROVE THIS OR PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED DENIAL OF THIS ONE? BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THAT IN THE R ONE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT THAT THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY USES OTHER THAN SINGLE FAMILY. AND IN THE STATEMENT OF INTENT IN THE R ONE DISTRICT, UM, IT EXPRESSLY SAYS THAT MOBILE HOMES OR ROOMING HOUSES ARE PROHIBITED. ISN'T THAT THE CHARACTER OF THAT AREA? SO THAT'S WHAT IT TALK ABOUT IS STABILIZING, PROTECT THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTERS OF THE AREA, UH, SUITABLE FOR FAMILY LIFE WHERE THERE ARE CHILDREN. WELL THAT'S A VERY TRA I MEAN A ROOMING HOUSE LIKE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IS, IS A VERY TRADITIONAL THING. IT'S NOT, UM, IN OTHER WORDS, IT, TO ME IT WOULD FIT IN WITH THE, WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE COMMUNITY. UM, IT'S THE WAY PEOPLE USED TO TRAVEL AND YOU KNOW, WELL IN MY SPECIAL USE PERMIT, YOU WOULD HAVE SOME CONTROL OVER SETTING THE CONDITIONS AND MAKING SURE THAT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE STAYING THERE, THAT THE ACTUAL GROUP GONNA ALSO, WE, I GUESS I THINK I SAW WE IN OUR CODE, WE HAVE, UM, PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GROUP HOME FOR INSTANCE. UM, THEY'RE ALLOWED TO DO THAT, RIGHT? NO, WE HAD TO. DON'T YOU? WE DISAPPROVED THAT ONE OUT BEHIND RIVERTON CHURCH. YEAH, I REMEMBER OF DOING IT OUT THERE, BUT I GUESS IT WASN'T EQUATING. YEAH, SEE WE HAD, WE HAD A PUBLIC HEARING SHELTERS, GROUP HOMES, HALFWAY HOUSES. AND THERE'S ONE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD RIGHT NOW THAT GOT AN EXCEPTION THAT WAS PASSED ADMINISTRATIVELY. AND THE ONLY REASON I KNOW IS BECAUSE I SAW THE CARS CHANGING EVERY DAY, PEOPLE IN AND OUT OF IT LIKE A BUSINESS. AND UM, THERE'S A LOOPHOLE WHERE THE HOUSE IS LIKE THE OCCUPANTS OF IT ARE ON SOCIAL SECURITY AND HAVE LIKE A LIVE-IN CARETAKER. YEAH. IT WAS PASSED ADMINISTRATIVELY THROUGH THE TOWN. THERE'S A LOING HOUSE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. HUH. SO JUST SO YOU KNOW, IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING IN R ONE DISTRICTS WITH LESS THAN THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE. AND I'M FINE. MY PERSPECTIVE IS I'M FINE WITH THAT. I FEEL LIKE IT'S THE APPROPRIATE PLACE FOR IT. THAT'S THE THING THAT IS IRONIC THAT WE HAD THE LODGING HOUSE AT 5 0 6 NORTH ROYAL ABOVE IT BECAUSE WE DID HAVE PEOPLE OPPOSED TO THESE LODGING HOUSES. UM, SPECIFICALLY THE ONE AT THE BK HAYNES BUILDING. WE HAD A LOT OF BUSINESSES, UH, EMAIL, I KNOW I STILL HAVE 'EM IN MY EMAIL THAT EMAILED ALL OF COUNCIL AND SAID THAT IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE FOR COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR TO HAVE A LODGING HOUSE AND THEN IT SHOULD ONLY BE USED FOR COMMERCIAL USE AND FOR SALES AND YOU KNOW, TAX REVENUE. SO THEN YOU LIKE, OKAY, WE GIVE WOMEN'S SHELTER OR A AFFORDING HOUSE OR A GROUP HOME FOR CHILDREN. SHOULD IT BE IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THEY CAN HAVE A NORMAL LIFE OR SHOULD IT BE IN A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT LIKE THEY'RE A BUSINESS VIRGINIA? IT CAN BE. WE ALLOW PEOPLE NEED SERVICES. TELL ME AGAIN WHY THE PLAN COMMISSION WAS SUBMITTED FINE. OF I KNOW WHY DID THE PLANNING COMMISSION WAS NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS BECAUSE YEAH, BECAUSE THE STATEMENT OF INTENT. SO THIS STATEMENT RIGHT THERE IS THE STATEMENT OF INTENT. SO EACH DISTRICT EXPLAINS WHAT, WHAT THAT DISTRICT IS STABLE AND PROTECT THE CARE, THE CHARACTER OF THE AREA. OH, I THINK THAT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION ENVIRONMENT FOR FAMILY LIFE WHERE THERE ARE CHILDREN. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN A LODGING HOUSE ON MY STREET ARE DOING. AND I HAVE CHILDREN THAT WALK PAST IT AT THE BUS STOP [01:55:01] EVERY MORNING RECOMMENDATION THAT IF THEY WERE GONNA DO THIS SO THAT EVERYTHING MATCHED UP. I MEAN, I'D RATHER THEM BE THERE SEVEN 11 AVENUE AND I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S THERE. NO, I AGREE. I THINK A RESIDENTIAL AREA IS WHERE PEOPLE OF A RESIDENCE GO ALONG. SO PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED THAT IF THIS IS DONE TO CHANGE THE LANGUAGE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION. I'M SORRY. COMMISSION JUST RECOMMENDED DENIAL. NO. OKAY. AND STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION WAS, AGAIN, IF YOU'RE GONNA RECOMMEND APPROVAL THAT THIS LANGUAGE SHOULD BE CHANGED AS WELL. THEN THE, YOU TAKE OUT THE ROOMING HOUSES. UM, SO TAKE OUT THE GREEN, YOU CAN LEAVE THE MOBILE HOME. YEAH. ALSO, IT WOULDN'T BE ALLOWING THESE IN ALL R ONE ON THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE BY SUP. SO ANYBODY WHO WANTED TO OPEN AND OPERATE, ONE WOULD HAVE TO APPLY AND HAVE A PUBLIC COME BEFORE THE COUNCIL. OKAY. WHY DO IT AND MAKE SURE, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN HAVE A LOGIC HOUSE. WELL, I WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU. WOULDN GET FUNDED. THAT'D BE TOUGH TO ASK. I WANNA HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC, MOSTLY THE NEIGHBORS. I WANT TO HEAR FROM THEM HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT IT. THERE'S A LOT, SOME OF THESE NEIGHBORS HAVE INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY IN THOSE HOMES UP THERE. SO, UM, I INVESTED A LOT OF MINE BEFORE I REALIZED THIS IS NOT A LAND USE MATTER. THIS IS MAYOR, THIS IS A, THIS IS A LEGISLATIVE MATTER INVOLVING AMENDMENT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. IT'S NOT A LAND USE CASE. YES, THIS IS SO WHAT WOULD, WHAT WOULD BE IN FRONT OF COUNSEL AND THE PUBLIC HEARING IS A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT LOOKING AT THE TEXT CHANGE. AND YOUR TE YOUR STAFF'S SUGGESTION IF PEOPLE ENTERTAIN IT, IS TO TAKE OUT ROOMING HOUSES, LEAVE MOBILE HOMES AND THE YELLOW TOO. LEAVE IN THE YELLOW. NO, THEN JUST ADD IN THIS RED LANGUAGE HERE. SO UNDER MISCELLANEOUS YOU WOULD HAVE LODGING HOUSES, ROOMING HOUSES, IMPORTANT HOUSES ON PARCELS, THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE OR LARGER. SO WHEN THEY COME INTO OUR DEPARTMENT, THE FIRST THING WE'RE GONNA CHECK IS LOT SIZE. DO YOU HAVE AT LEAST THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE? IF YOU DO, THEN OKAY, HERE'S YOUR APPLICATION. THEN WE START THE PROCESS. YEAH. AND IF THEY DON'T, IT'S SORRY ABOUT THE BAD LUCK. EXACTLY. BUT THERE THERE'S, THERE AREN'T THAT MANY. YEAH, I WAS GONNA SAY THAT FAR BETWEEN THREE FOURS OF AN ACRES IS QUITE A BIT IN TOWN, I THINK UNLESS YOU OWN TWO. NO, I'M SAYING UNLESS YOU, LIKE I KNOW IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD YOU, YOU'D HAVE TO, YOU'D HAVE TO OWN TWO LOTS FOR US TO HAVE THREE QUARTERS OF AN AC 15,000 SQUARE FEET. SO THE QUESTION IS, DOES COUNSEL WANT THIS TO GO TO A PUBLIC HEARING YET OR DO, DO WE, I MEAN IT'S UP TO YOU ALL. DO WE WANNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THE NEXT STEP OR ARE YOU ALL PLANNING COMMISSION WITH AGAINST IT? PUBLIC HEARING PEOPLE. IT'S GOTTA GO TO A PUBLIC HEARING. IT'LL BE ANYBODY IN TOWN THOUGH BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS IS ABOUT GENERAL. RIGHT. RIGHT. PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND PUT FOR PUBLIC HEARING. WE JUST GOTTA AND IT'S BUS SPECIAL USE PERMIT. EXACTLY. NOT ALLOWING ANYBODY WITH THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE IN TOWN TO HAVE A LODGING OUT ALLOWS THEM TO RIGHT. WANT SEX OFFENDERS. YEAH. OBJECTION AMENDMENT. IT'S GOING. YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY NO, I THINK THEY DO HAVE HOMES FOR THIS. WHERE DO WE GO? NO, I'M JUST SAYING IF THEY HAVE A HOUSE LIKE THAT, THEN WE STILL HAVE SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO, TO BE ABLE TO SAY NO. RIGHT. I CONVERSATION CENTERS AROUND WOMEN'S SHELTERS AND SO ARE THAT MIGHT MR. PETTY, IS THAT SUPPOSED TO STILL BE ON? I JUST PUSHED. NO, I KNOW. I JUST DIDN'T. OKAY, THANK YOU. SO IT'S UNDER THE CATEGORY OF UNFINISHED BUSINESS. CAN I, ARE WE PUTTING THIS ON MAY 27TH PUBLIC HEARING FOR THAT TEXT AMENDMENT? MM-HMM . YEAH, THAT'S THE FIRST PUBLIC HEARING WE COULD DO. CAN WE PLEASE INCLUDE IN THAT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION FOR CONDITIONS OR CHANGING OF THE LANGUAGE? I, FOR ONE WE DIDN'T DISCUSS THAT WAS IN FAVOR OF THE CHANGES THAT STAFF SUGGESTED. THAT HAS TO BE PART OF THE ADVERTISEMENT. OKAY. I WOULD LIKE IT TO BE ADVERTISED WITH STAFF SUGGESTIONS. I THINK WE NEED A CONSENSUS TO DO THAT. I AGREE. YEAH. THE RED, THE RED LINE. THIS WHAT IT WOULD DO ANYWAY. SHE SAID TO TAKE LAUREN. SO YOU ALL'S RECOMMENDATION IS TO TAKE OUT THE GREEN PART AND PUT IN THE RED PART. I CAN PROVIDE IT, BUT YES. BUT THAT ALL WE KNOW. IF EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THAT, WE NEED TO KNOW THAT RIGHT NOW EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH THAT PART? YEAH. OKAY. YES. MR. PETTY GETS TO BRING SOMETHING UP THAT'S BEEN HERE MULTIPLE TIMES. YES, IT HAS. BEFORE I FEEL LIKE WE'VE, I MAY OR MAY NOT, UH, PITCH IT TO COUNSEL OR BJ SINCE THEY HAVE A [02:00:01] LITTLE MORE EXPERIENCE WITH THIS. UM, SO OBVIOUSLY YEAH, THIS ITEM HAS BEEN BEFORE COUNSEL IN THE PAST. UM, AND SO WE ARE SEEKING GUIDANCE FROM COUNSEL. WE'RE KIND OF NEXT STEPS. IF YOU HAVE, UM, ANY IDEA IF YOU, YOU WOULD LIKE TO GRANT PERMISSION ON INGRESS AND EGRESS THROUGH THE TOWN PROPERTY. AS YOU KNOW, MR. STALLINGS PROPERTY IS LANDLOCKED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RAILROAD TRACKS, JUST, UH, ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RIVER, UM, UP ON THE NORTH FORK OF CDO. SO, AND THERE'S A MAP IN YOUR PACKET, BUT YOU GUYS PROBABLY KNOW IT, IT RUNS RIGHT ALONG THE RIVER. AND SO THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONS THAT I BELIEVE THAT VDOT IF KENNY BDOT INFORMATION AND THEY WOULD BE OKAY WITH IT. SO ALSO INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET WAS AN EMAIL FROM VO AND IT WAS A DISCUSSION BETWEEN DONALD CUMMINGS FROM THE EDINBURGH RESIDENCY AND BJ AND ON MARCH 18TH. THERE WERE TWO EMAILS. ONE SAID THEY WERE GRANTED THAT IT 10:00 AM THEY CAME BACK AND SAID THAT THEY WERE GIVEN PERMANENT PERMISSION TO ALLOW HIM TO ACCESS HIS PROPERTY THROUGH THEIRS. THAT'S AS OFFICIAL AS WE GOT FROM VDO. WE DON'T HAVE ANY PERMITS, ANY WRITTEN, IT'S JUST THE EMAIL AT THIS POINT. UM, BUT AT THIS POINT, IS COUNSEL WILLING TO ENTERTAIN A DISCUSSION ON CREATING AN AGREEMENT WITH MR. STALLINGS FOR ACCESS OR WE'RE STILL TABLING IT? THAT'S JUST KIND OF WHERE IT'S, WE DO NOW HAVE SOME LANGUAGE FROM BDOT. MR. TO BE CLEAR, IT'S NOT AN EASEMENT. IT'S NOT AN AGREEMENT. BDOT IS NOT. OH YEAH. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, I HAVEN'T SEEN IT. GRANT. THEY'RE NOT GRANTING AN EASEMENT. BUT IT'S, IT'S A PERMISSION, WHICH IN MY VIEWS, REVOCABLE AT WILL. ALTHOUGH IT SAYS PERMANENT, IT'S STILL JUST A LICENSE OR ORAL PERMISSION, WHICH IS WHAT YOU ORIGINALLY SUGGESTED. COUNCILMAN WOOD. HAVE YOU, I'M JUST CURIOUS. I KNOW THE REST OF US HAVE SEEN THIS WHEN A COUPLE DIFFERENT TIMES WERE YOU HERE WHEN WE WERE ENTERTAINING THAT I, I REALLY THOUGHT WE PUT THIS TO REST WITH MR. WALTZ TO, UH, DENY IT BECAUSE THE LIABILITY OF THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA, THE LIABILITY IN CONTROL. IN OTHER WORDS, WE GIVE THAT UP AND SOMEBODY GETS HURT ON THE PROPERTY OR THERE'S A PARTY THERE OR I, I DON'T KNOW. BUT I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE CONSENSUS OF COUNSEL. IS IT, WHEN IT LAST, WHEN WE LAST DISCUSSED IT, I WAS IN FAVOR OF GRANTING THE LICENSE. IF IT STATED THAT IT WAS ONLY FOR THE OWNERS OF THE PROPERTY, THEY COULDN'T HAVE PASS THROUGH TRAFFIC FOR PARTIES AND HOSTING. BUT HOW DO YOU CONTROL IT? BUT THEN WE HAVE NO LIABILITY BECAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT WE GAVE THEM A LICENSE FOR. I MEAN, THEY COULD TRY TO SUE US FOR SOMETHING, BUT WE DIDN'T GIVE THEM PERMISSION TO DO THAT. COUNCIL, OTHER THAN THE EASEMENT, DO WE HAVE ANY, DO WE HAVE ANY, DO WE HAVE ANY NEED FOR THE, THAT LAND? WE HAVE UTILITIES IN IT, RIGHT? WE HAVE A SANITARY, YEAH. BUT OTHER, OTHER THAN THAT, DO WE HAVE ANY NEED FOR IT? WILL WE NEED IT FOR ANY PURPOSE GOING FORWARD? IT WAS ORIGINALLY ACCESSED. WE GOT EARLY 19 HUNDREDS FOR THE RIVERTON DAM AND POWER. I THINK SOMETIMES WITH THE DISCUSSIONS AROUND WATER, WE HAVE ACCESS TO A WATER IN A RIVER LOT. I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP THAT OPEN. AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S A BRIDGE JUST RIGHT ABOVE IT. I, I THINK IT'S, I DON'T KNOW OF ANY NEAR TERM USES, BUT IT DOES SEEM THAT IT COULD BE A WATER SOURCE. WELL THAT WAS ONE OF THE WATER STUDY RECOMMENDATION WAS A WITHDRAWAL POINT OUT OF THE NORTH FORK. WELL, I THOUGHT THERE AT RIVER IS ALL THEY SAID, BUT WE, I'M IN FAVOR OF GIVING HIM THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A LICENSE FOR THE PROPERTY OWNERS ONLY TO ACCESS THEIR PROPERTY, UM, BY VEHICLE. ESPECIALLY IF V OS WILLING TO DO THAT. I MEAN, I, I AGREE. SO I, AS LONG AS THERE'S CONDITIONS WHERE WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE LIABLE. EXACTLY. YEAH. THAT'S, THAT'S THE THING. I DON'T THINK YOU CAN PUT A CONDITION, WE'RE NOT LIABLE. HMM. WELL, I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T THINK YOU CAN PUT A CONDITION WE'RE NOT LYING. DON'T, THAT'S, THAT'S THE TRICKY PART. YEAH. I THINK THAT THE LICENSE, WHAT THE LICENSE STATES THAT YOU AUTHORIZE IS ALL WE ARE LIABLE FOR. AND ANYTHING THAT THEY DO OUTSIDE OF THAT, ANYBODY CAN SUE ANYBODY FOR ANYTHING IN THIS WORLD, IN THIS COUNTRY, RATHER NOT THE WORLD. UNITED STATES SEEMS HAPPY AND UM, YEAH, SO IF SOMETHING HAPPENS ON IT THAT THEY'RE NOT PERMITTED TO DO, THEY CAN TRY TO SUE US. BUT IT'S LIKE, AND WE'RE KEEPING THEM FROM THEIR, I MEAN, WHAT DO, HOW DOES THE LAW LOOK IN TERMS OF IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE TO [02:05:01] MAKE A DIFFERENT OPTION? THEY PURCHASED IT LANDLOCK. SO I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE A, I SAY I DON'T THINK THEY, I JUST THINK VIRGINIA, YOU CAN BE LANDLOCKED. SO I JUST, I WANTED TO MENTION MR. BOYER, YOU, THE WORST PART ABOUT ALL OF THIS IS WE TALKED ABOUT IT SO MANY TIMES AND IT'S BEEN SO LONG AGO. I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS. I KNOW AT ONE POINT WE TALKED ABOUT IS THERE A LOCK? NO, THERE IS TWO NOW. YEAH, THERE'S TWO LOCKS ON IT NOW. SO THEN THE QUESTION WAS, SO IS ARE WE GOING TO GIVE THEM ACCESS TO OUR LOCKS AND HOW ARE THEY GONNA ACCESS THE PROPERTY? I THINK, I THINK THAT'S WHY THE LAST TIME WE WERE KIND OF LIKE, THIS IS GETTING REALLY CONFUSING. LAST TIME WE WAITED TO SEE WHAT VDOT SAID, THAT'S WHY WE DELETED IT. WHAT O SAID THE LAST TIME THEY HADN'T COMMITTED, HE PULLED, HE PULLED OUT. THAT'S WHY I WAS KIND OF, YEAH, IT WASN'T, IV SAID, BECAUSE I REMEMBER MR. WAL SAYING THAT VDOT KIND OF LIKE, IT SEEMED MEN, THEY KIND OF TALKED TO LIKE, KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT'S ON Y'ALL. YOU DECIDE IF WE, IF WE GRANT THEM PERMISSION, YOU KNOW, TO, TO COME ACROSS THE TOWN PROPERTY TO GET TO THERE. UH, WHAT KIND OF PUBLIC WORKS DO, WHAT KIND OF STRUCTURE THE PUBLIC WORK STRUCTURE DO WE HAVE IN THERE? IS IT SOMETHING THEY CAN TEAR UP? I MEAN, THE MANHOLES ARE ALL BURIED, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THE BRIDGE IS ALL CONCRETE. UM, I MEAN THE BIG THING WOULD BE, I GUESS HONESTLY WOULD BE PROBABLY SAYING THAT THEY'RE LIABLE TO KEEP THE, YOU KNOW, THE PATHWAY ACROSS THE TOWN WHERE IT'S ALL BRUSHED. THEY WANT ACCESS. THEY WOULD KEEP IT CLEAN AND THEN LOCK THE GATE BACK. UH, WE WENT OUT THERE THE ONE DAY A COUPLE MONTHS AGO AND THE ONE LOCK, SOMEBODY HAD BEAT IT WITH A HAMMER, IT BROKE. SO WE PUT A NEW ONE ON AND I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SAYING ANYBODY IN PARTICULAR DID, BUT WE WENT BACK A MONTH OR SO LATER AND THEY ALL LOOSENED THE HINGES AND TOOK THE ELDER SIDE OFF. SO WE TOOK A PIECE OF CHAIN AND WRAPPED THE ELDER SIDE AND LOCKED IT FOR THE TIME BEING JUST, YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE REASONS. BUT, WELL, SOMEBODY WANTS ACCESS TO IT, SO. YEAH, I'M NOT SAYING IT, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S THE HALF. ME NEITHER. I'M JUST SAYING IF SOMEBODY DOESN, SOMEBODY WANTS TO BE ABLE TO GET TO IT AND USE IT. SO RIGHT NOW BOTH SIDES ARE CHAINED AND LOCKED, UM, AT THE POST GOING IN. BUT YEAH, I MEAN IT'S PRETTY BRUSHY GOING IN. 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, UNLESS WE HAVE A SEWER ISSUE OR SOMETHING WITH THE BRIDGE, WE DON'T GO IN A LOCK AND STUFF. SO, I MEAN, SO IT WOULDN'T HAVE, THEY OBVIOUSLY OUR THOUGHT WOULD BE, WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO KEEP IT CLEAN FOR, FOR SOMEBODY JUST TO USE IT FOR ACCIDENT. YOU KNOW? I MEAN, I GUESS OUR THOUGHT WOULD BE WANT THEM TO DO IT. I THINK HE'D HAVE TO KEEP IT CLEAN OR WHOEVER IT IS HAVE TO KEEP IT, IT CLEAN, BUT, AND HOW IS THAT ENFORCEABLE STORM DRAINED DUMPS OUT THERE, BUT WE PUT SOME ASPHALT THERE A COUPLE YEARS AGO. IT WOULD, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE CLEARLY STATED. AND OF COURSE IT CAN BE REVOKED. I'M SAYING IS THAT ENFORCEABLE TO SAY YOU'VE GOTTA KEEP IT CLEAN? I WOULD SAY IF WE HAD THE AGREEMENT TO SAY, YOU, YOU HAVE, WE'RE NOT GONNA MAINTAIN YOUR ACCESS. YOU HAVE TO MOW THE DRIVEWAY. HE'S GONNA DO IT. IF HE WANTS TO GET DOWN, IF WE GO DOWN THERE AND THEY HAVE IT, WE REVOKE IT. OTHERWISE YOU AIN'T GONNA BE ABLE TO GET DOWN THERE. I DON'T KNOW. I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. I'M GONNA BE THE, THE OUTLIER HERE. I DON'T, YOU BUY A PIECE OF PROPERTY. IT, IT STATES SPECIFICALLY THAT THERE'S NO ACCESS. THERE'S NO ACCESS. SO WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA MAKE SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS, UH, SO THAT SOMEBODY CAN USE A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT, THAT SPECIFICALLY SAID THERE'S NO ACCESS. NO ONE HAS THAT THAT'S I VALID POINT. WE GIVE EASEMENTS AND LEASE PARKING ALL THE TIME. WE'RE LEASING PARKING TO A RESIDENTIAL PERSON IN THEIR NEIGHBOR AT TOWN'S PROPERTY. I JUST THINK IT'S, IT'S NOT UNCOMMON. ADD, MOVE. UH, I, I AGREE WITH, UH, COUNCILMAN WOOD REGARDING THE LIABILITY THAT WE'RE OPENING OURSELVES UP, UP TO. UM, WE GET SUED EVERY MONTH. I WENT BY THERE YESTERDAY. I COULD TELL THAT THERE'S ROOM, YOU KNOW, THAT THE GATE, THERE'S ROOM FOR, FOR ANYONE TO GET THROUGH THERE. YOU COULD RIDE A, A, UH, OFF ROAD BIKE THROUGH THERE. UH, YOU KNOW, I I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S, I SO WHERE'S THE VALE? I, I JUST DON'T THINK, THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE GETTING INTO. COUNCIL NEED TO MAKE QUESTION. WAIT, WAIT. THAT, UM, YOU WERE SAYING TO THE SIDE, THERE'S, THERE'S, YEAH, THERE'S A BIG GAP THERE. AND THEN, SO WHOSE LAND IS THAT? THAT'S OUR LAND. IT'S A BIG GAP. SO YOU'RE SAYING THEY SHOULD JUST DO IT WITHOUT A LICENSE IF THEY WANNA DO IT ON A BICYCLE, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE JUST SAYING? NO, I'M SAYING THAT THEY COULD DO IT IF THEY WANTED TO. I'M JUST SAYING THAT WHAT WE, WE SHOULDN'T BE GOING DOWN THIS ROAD BECAUSE HELP. NO, NOT THAT POINT. WHEN YOU SAID YOU COULD TAKE, I'M SORRY, THE GUY A BICYCLE PROPERTY. I'M [02:10:01] SORRY, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAID. YOU SAID SOMEBODY COULD TAKE AN OUTDOOR BICYCLE OR AN A TV THROUGH THERE. THEY COULD, YOU'RE SAYING TAKE AN OFF-ROAD, UH, MOTORBIKE. SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT IF THEY WANNA DO IT, THEY JUST SHOULD WITHOUT ASKING THE TOWN OR YOU'RE JUST SAYING THAT WE SHOULD CLOSE IT OFF? WHAT ARE YOU SAYING BY SAYING, I'M SAYING IT OUGHT TO BE CLOSED OFF AND MAYBE WE OUGHT, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE ALREADY EXPOSED TO LIABILITY BY YOUR STATEMENT. CORRECT? WELL, WE SHOULD BE PUTTING FENCING UP. THERE SHOULD BE ADDITIONAL FENCING. SO WE'RE CURRENTLY EXPOSED TO LIABILITY IS WHAT I'M HEARING. WITHOUT ANYTHING THERE. THERE'S A GATE OVER A ROAD. NOW CAN YOU GET AROUND THE GATE TO ACCESS THE PROPERTY? YES. I DIDN'T KNOW I COULD GO RIDE A FOUR WHEELER OR AN OUTDOOR BIKE THROUGH THERE UNTIL JUST NOW. THAT'S WHY I'M STATING IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE CURRENTLY EXPOSED, BUT WHOEVER WANTED TO GET THERE WASN'T OKAY WITH THE A TV OR THE BIKE. 'CAUSE WHOEVER WENT AND KNOCKED OFF THE LOCK SET TWICE OVER THE LAST SIX MONTHS WANTED SOMETHING MORE AROUND. YEAH, MORE. YEAH. SOMEBODY WANTED MORE THAN JUST AN AT TV OR BIKE TO GIVE. RIGHT. I I AGREE WITH MR. PETTY THAT THE LAND COULD BE VALUABLE TO THE TOWN. YEAH. I DON'T WANNA GET OF IT GOING FORWARD, BUT, UM, FROM A LIABILITY STANDPOINT, I THINK WE SHOULD, ARE WE GIVEN CONSENSUS? I WANT TO, YES. I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF A LICENSE. WE GIVE EASEMENTS AND WORKING TO PEOPLE ALL THE TIME ON TOWN PROPERTY. WE HAVE NO LIE. WE DON'T CONSIDER THAT A LIE. YEAH, IT SEEMS LIKE, UH, UH, I IT SEEMS LIKE IT WAS HALF AND HALF, BUT I'M NOT POSITIVE. RIGHT. COUNCILMAN ? YEAH. WERE YOU FOR THE CONSENTS DRIVE? 'CAUSE IF IT'S HALF, IT WAS HALF AND HALF IT SOUNDED LIKE, CAN REMIND ME, THE END OF RUGBY STREET, WHAT THIS PROPERTY REAR IS, IT'S A RAILROAD GOING THROUGH THE RAILROAD. YOU GET ON IT. HIS HIS HOME IS ON RUGBY. YEAH. YOU MIGHT GAIN ACCESS RAILS TO TRAILS EVERY DAY. THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT MR. PETTY AND I TALKED ABOUT. IF RAILS TRAILS GOES THROUGH THERE, IT'S GONNA GO RIGHT BY RIGHT, RIGHT AT HIS PROPERTY. RIGHT. I CAN'T REMEMBER JOE. RIGHT. JOSH WAS ASKING A QUESTION, I THINK. YEAH, BUT THIS IS AN OLD ALLEY RIVER HERE TRAIL GOES THROUGH, THEY CAN TAKE THE TRAIL AND POP OFF. I THOUGHT IT WAS BECAUSE THAT IS THAT, IS THIS AN OLD ALLEY RIGHT HERE? I MEAN THAT'S ALREADY, THAT APPEARS TO BE A FLATTED RIGHT OF WAY. BUT WE LOOKED AT THE PLATS AND THERE'S NO DEDICATED EASEMENT ACROSS THE RAILROAD TRACKS. RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND THE RAILROAD NOT CORRECT, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THOUGH. YEAH, RIGHT NOW THAT IS THE SUBJECT RAILROAD THAT IS PART OF THE DISCUSSIONS OF THE GENO RAIL TRAIL OR RAILS WITH TRAILS. GOTCHA. YEAH, I JUST, I JUST WANNA BE REMINDED OF WHAT THAT WAS. I THOUGHT THAT MAY HAVE BEEN ASKED BEFORE, BUT, SO LOTS OF PUBLIC MIGHT BE BACK THERE SOON ENOUGH. I GUESS MY NEXT QUESTION, THEY WOULDN'T BE DRIVING STILL CAN'T, HE SAID HE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO USE HIS RIVER LOT. HE CAME HERE, WE'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH HIM. HE LIVES ON THE STREET IN FRONT OF IT. HE KNEW IT WAS LANDLOCKED. HE'D ASKED HIM FOR PERMISSION TO ACCESS IT, TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE RIVER LOT. ISN'T THAT WHAT HE TOLD US? D Y'ALL BE HONEST WITH YOU, VICE MAYOR. THIS IS LITERALLY AT LEAST THE THIRD OR FOURTH TIME PLUS I, I HAD CON HE WANTED TO BE ABLE TO GET A TRUCK BACK THERE TO BE ABLE TO CLEAN IT UP. I THINK IT WAS A NEW TOWN MANAGER. SO HE BROUGHT IT BACK AGAIN HOW THAT, HIS LATEST EMAIL WAS MARCH. SO RIGHT BEFORE I CAME HERE, THAT WAS THE DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN HIM AND VDOT OF MARCH OF THIS YEAR. RIGHT. BUT I'M SAYING THOUGH, THIS WAS JUST, WE JUST, I WANNA SAY LITERALLY ORIGINALLY IT WAS A DIFFERENT GENTLEMAN HAD HEALTH ISSUES, REMEMBER? NO, IT'S THE SAME PERSON. I MEAN, ORIGINALLY REMEMBER THE GENTLEMAN IN THE WHEELCHAIR ORIGINALLY OWNED IT. HE WAS THE FIRST ONE SOLD. SOLD IT. HE SOLD IT TO THIS GENTLEMAN. EXACTLY. HE ORIGINALLY COME OUT THINK THE VERY FIRST TIME AND NO, HE CAME WITH THE MAN. OR IS THAT HE CAME WITH THE POUND SHELL AND THEN SAW THE POUND SHELL AND THEN STALL. CORRECT. LIKE I SAID, IT FEELS LIKE IT'S BEEN MULTIPLE TIMES. SO IS IT IS, AM I CORRECT? AM I AM IT JUST WANTS ACCESS, BUT IT SEEMS NO, I UNDERSTAND, BUT IF IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S JUST HALF AND HALF, IS THAT WHAT IT SEEMS LIKE IT WAS A NO AND NO AND NO. YES. YES. I'M WAITING FOR PEOPLE TO DIRECTLY ANSWER SO WE CAN WRAP. I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID. NOS. I MEAN IT'S, I I GOT THE NOS, I GOT THE YESES. WAYNE WAS A NO. RIGHT. I AND, AND I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF MOVING IT FORWARD EITHER, UNLESS I GET DIFFERENT INFORMATION THAN WHAT I'VE GOT RIGHT NOW. SO, SO THE LAST ITEM IS THE, UM, THE CLOSED, WHICH YOU HAVE TO READ THAT. OKAY. CLEANLY. CAN YOU FIND NO, IT'S JUST MY WASN'T MOVING MINE. I'VE HAD A PROBLEM. BUT YOU TOLD ME YOUR SCREEN. [02:15:01] HE'S BEEN ON ALL KINDS OF, SHE'S VICE. EVERYBODY HASN'T HAD A, SHE HADN'T HAD AN IPAD FOR A MONTH, RIGHT? OR TWO MONTHS WORKING. IPAD STILL WORKING, CORRECT? IT'S NOT WORKING AT ALL. , I, MY IPAD. OH, ALL. HOLD ON. I'LL, I GOT IT PULLED UP IF YOU WANT ME TO READ IT. PLEASE DO. GO AHEAD PLEASE. UM, MADAM MAYOR, I MOVE THE TOWN COUNCIL BEING ENCLOSED MEETING PURSUANT TO SECTION 2.2371 AND 2.2372 OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR THE FOLLOW PURPOSE PURSUANT TO SECTION 2.27 A1 DISCUSSION, CONSIDERATION, OR INTERVIEWS OF PROSPECTIVE CANDIDATES FOR EMPLOYMENT ASSIGNMENT, APPOINTMENT PROMOTION, PERFORMANCE TO MOTION SALARIES, DISCIPLINING OR RESIGNATION OF SPECIFIC PUBLIC OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES OR POLICE, ANY PUBLIC BODY, MORE SPECIFICALLY THE TOWN ATTORNEY POSITION. SO I CAN, ALL RIGHT. ROLL CALL CHAIR SECOND. YES. VICE MAYOR WHITE. YES. COUNCIL ? YES. COUNCIL ? YES. COUNCIL INGRAM? YES. COUNCIL? YES. UM, MS. CORRECTLY, UM, I WAS GONNA SAY, I KNOW YOU'RE GONNA BE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.