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[Special Joint Work Session Board of Architectural Review and Planning Commission on April 8, 2025.]
WE'RE LIVE STREAMING, SO, ALL RIGHT, LET'S, UM, CALL TO ORDER THE JOINT WORK SESSION FOR MARK COUNCIL REVIEW AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR APRIL 8TH, 2025.VICE, VICE CHAIRMAN VAUGHN HERE.
AND MS. NASH IS ABSENT TONIGHT.
COMMISSIONER BROOKS IS ABSENT.
SO WE'VE GOT DISCUSSION THIS EVENING, UM, FOR PROPOSED TEXT AMENDMENT FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, THE RESIDENTIAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
UM, WE'RE LOOKING TO MODIFY THE LANGUAGE TO, UM, CHANGE THE LANGUAGE TO SAY THAT GOING FORWARD, NEW CONSTRUCTION WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT SHOULD BE LIMITED IN SCOPE TO SINGLE FAMILY HOMES TO BETTER MAINTAIN THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT.
UM, WE'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, LOTS OF NEW HOUSING DEVELOPMENTS GOING UP ALL OVER TOWN.
SEEMINGLY IT KEEPS POPPING UP, WHICH IS GREAT, THE TOWN'S GROWING.
BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, OUR GOAL AT THE BAR IS TO PRESERVE AND PROTECT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND ALLOWING MULTIFAMILY DWELLINGS, UM, TO BE BUILT THAT ARE COMPLETELY IN CONGRESS WITH THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD IS A BAD IDEA.
AND WE'D LIKE TO CHANGE THE LANGUAGE TO LIKE THAT.
UM, AND TO ALSO INCLUDE, RIGHT, IF YOU HAVE A LARGE SINGLE FAMILY HOME, SOME OF OUR BEAUTIFUL HOMES IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, WE WANT THE LANGUAGE TO INCLUDE THAT CAN'T BE CHOPPED UP AND MADE INTO APARTMENTS THAT PRESERVE THE HISTORICAL.
THERE A LOT OF BEAUTIFUL OLD HOMES THAT HAVE BEEN JUST WRECKED, DESTROYED BY, YOU KNOW, SLAMMING FIVE, SIX APARTMENTS IN THOSE BIG OLD HOUSE.
I KNOW SOME HISTORIC DISTRICTS ARE MORE LENIENT ON THAT AND I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S THE BETTER ROUTE TO TAKE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WANT TO, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO HAVE PEOPLE LIVING IN THIS OR DISTRICT AND I JUST, I DON'T KNOW IF FIVE APARTMENTS IN ONE OLD HOUSE IS APPROPRIATE, TWO FAMILIES COULD BE A GOOD COMPROMISE ON THAT END, YOU KNOW, SO WE'RE NOT CUTTING THEM UP INTO LITTLE BIT.
BUT THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE GIST OF THE IDEA.
I THINK IT'S A GOOD STEP TO, UM, DESERVING ADDIT.
WELL WE HAVE TO ALREADY BEEN DONE.
THIS, THIS WOULD'VE NO, NO EFFECT ON ANY, ANY EXISTING FORWARD.
SO, SO BUILDINGS THAT ARE CURRENTLY, UM, SOMETHING THAT IT'S MIXED IN THIS SORT DISTRICT, CORRECT? IT'S GOT A DUPLEX THERE OR SOME OTHER KIND BUILDING OR THINGS THAT NOT WAS NONCONFORMING BEFORE THEY CAME ACROSS, IF THEY WERE TO BE TORN DOWN OR BURNED DOWN OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, WOULD YOU WANT THAT ALSO TO BE REBUILT AS EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A DUPLEX BEFORE, CORRECT.
I HAD HOPED WE COULD TAKE A WALK AND THEN IT SNOWED THIS MORNING.
I LOOKED DOWN, UM, JUST ANY OF OUR STREETS.
BUT TO TAKE BLUE RIDGE, FOR INSTANCE, UM, IF YOU'RE AT BLUE RIDGE IN PROSPECT WHERE WE'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME MM-HMM
IF YOU LOOK AT THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE STREET FROM WHERE THAT LOVELY HOME BURNED, THERE ARE SOME BRICK TOWNHOUSES, APARTMENT TYPE SITUATIONS AND IT COMPLETELY DISRUPTS THE TOTAL CHARACTER OF THE STREET.
UM, WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING NEW THAT GOES TO A DIFFERENT SETBACK AND DOESN'T FALL IN LINE, IT TAKES THE COMPLETE CHARACTER AWAY.
SO YES, AS THINGS DISAPPEAR FROM FIRE, UM, WE WOULD LIKE FOR THEM TO GO BACK AS SINGLE FAMILY HOMES THAT ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, IN, IN CHARACTER WITH WHAT IS THERE OR WHAT WAS THERE TO BEGIN WITH BEFORE THAT PLACE BURNED DOWN OR WAS DEMOLISHED AND SOMETHING ELSE WAS CREATED WHEN WE DIDN'T HAVE SORT HISTORY.
JUST GOING STREAM OF CONSCIOUSNESS HERE OF SORTS.
UM, THE, UH, IF, IF IT IS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME NOW AND BEING USED AS ONE AND IT'S BURNT TO THE GROUND OR THEY WANT TO SUBSTANTIALLY UPDATE IT, OR THE CASE MAY BE KEEPING
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HISTORIC WITHIN HISTORIC VALUE AND APPEARANCE AND FACADES AND SO ON, SEEMS STRAIGHTFORWARD.IT'S LIKE YOU SAID, RIGHT NOW THE EXISTING ONE HAS BEEN DIVIDED INTO SIX PARTS OR IT'S CURRENTLY A DUPLEX OR IT'S CURRENTLY SOME, A BUSINESS BEING RUN OUT OF THE HOUSE OR, AND IT MIGHT BE DIVIDED INTO THREE BUSINESSES FOR ALL I KNOW, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, UH, COULD START RUNNING THE PROBLEMS THAT IF SOMETHING WERE TO HAPPEN TO THE HOUSE, THAT WE'D BE RESTRICTING THEM FROM THE USE THAT THEY CURRENTLY WERE IN.
SOMETHING LAUREN, YOU DOWN, DOWN ZONE, MEANING NOW THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO CHANGE THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY, THIS WAS THE DUPLEX AND I WAS GETTING 5,000 A MONTH, YOU'RE GONNA MAKE ME INTO THIS, UH, A SINGLE FAMILY HOME THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT I'M GONNA GET LESS MONEY WHERE THE KIDS MAY BE.
SO IT, IT MAY BE SOMEWHAT COMPLEX, UH, TO IMPLEMENT OTHER THAN, THAN THOSE THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN THAT CASE NOW WHERE SOMEONE WANTS TO CONVERT, SAY, I WANT, I WANT TO SUBDIVIDE MY CURRENT, UH, HOUSE IN THE SIX.
MIGHT HAVE TO GET SOME LEGAL ADVICE ON WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN'T DO FOR THE FREE WILL WITHIN THEIR OWN HOUSE.
THE LANGUAGE TO YOU THAT, THAT SEEMS LIKE IT'S PROPOSED HERE SAYS THAT THE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES SHALL BE PRESERVE A SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.
AND CONVERTING SINGLE FAMILY INTO MULTIFAMILY WOULD BE PROHIBITED.
SO IT'S NOT SAYING THAT SOME CURRENTLY HAS A DUPLEX AMOUNT HAS BE STORAGE SOMEHOW, BUT THEY, WELL, THAT, THAT'S WHY I ASKING WOULD IT APPLY TO THOSE, UM, DUPLEXES, SO IN THE BURN DOWN NOW WHEN THEY WANT IT REBUILT BACK AT THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME THAT, THAT, THAT'S WHY I WAS RESPONDING TO THAT.
I GUESS OUR ORIGINAL THINKING WAS, YEAH, I MEAN IF, IF THERE WAS A LOT THAT BECAME EMPTY REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT WAS PREVIOUSLY, WE WANT IT TO BE A SINGLE FAMILY AT HOME OR PERHAPS A TWO FAMILY HOME.
ARE THERE ANY, UM, AND Y'ALL ARE GONNA BE WAY MORE FAMILIAR WITH THAT HISTORIC DISTRICT IN THERE, UM, YOU KNOW, SPECIFIC PIECES WITHIN THEM THAN I WOULD BE, UH, IS THERE HISTORICAL PRECEDENT FOR HAVING MULTIFAMILY DWELLS WITHIN HISTORIC AREA? YES.
BUT THERE WASN'T A HISTORIC DISTRICT THOUGH, CORRECT? WHEN THEY WERE BUILT, OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT HAD NOT BEEN CREATED, CREATED LIKE 2000 EARLY OR LATE NINETIES.
THE HISTORIC HISTORY, BECAUSE THOSE HISTORIC DISTRICT SURVEY WERE DONE IN NINE FOUR WERE, BUT I WANNA SAY NINE SEVEN IF YOU WANNA KNOW SOMEWHERE AROUND THE 97.
I JUST DUNNO, I SHOULD REWORD THAT.
IS THERE ANY HISTORICAL TRUE HISTORICAL PRECEDENT? YEAH, LIKE BEFORE THERE WAS THIS, THIS, UH, THE OVERLAY DISTRICT WAS THERE? WELL, THE STONE, BLUE RIDGE AND CLOUD THERE WERE IN THE THIRTIES AND FORTIES.
ARE YOU ASKING LIKE HIS, LIKE WERE THERE HISTORICAL, LIKE MULTIFAMILY USES? YES.
LIKE TOWN HOMES AS A HISTORIC YES.
WELL, YEAH, I MEAN THOSE ARE ALL THINGS, OF COURSE THOSE OTHER AREAS, BUT SPECIFICALLY THIS ONE DOES IS WORK.
LIKE ON BLUE RIDGE, UM, AND THE 300 BLOCK OF IT, THERE'S A BRICK HOUSE.
THAT WAS ONE LEVEL I BELIEVE THAT BURNT DOWN.
SO THEN THEY REPLACED IT WITH THIS ONE LEVEL BRICK THAT KINDA DOESN'T FIT.
UM, HOUSE ON WATKINS BURNED DOWN.
THAT ONE'S NOW GETTING REPLACED WITH THE DUPLEX WHERE THOSE TOWN HOMES ARE ACROSS FROM MS. WATKINS.
THAT WAS ANOTHER PROPERTY THAT BURNED SOMETHING HAPPENED.
BUT THEY WERE ALL SINGLE FAMILY, I THINK FROM THE HISTORIC SURVEY.
BUT THAT KIND OF WITH WHAT YOU JUST SAID, THAT IN THIRTIES AND FORTIES THEY HAD BOARDING OUT.
YEAH, THEY S THEY WERE, THEY WERE ORIGINALLY OUT SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES THAT THEY CUT UP, THEY RENTED OUT A ROOM, SHOVED AS MANY PEOPLE AS THEY COULD.
THERE A SCHOOL, ONE OF THOSE HOUSES WAS A SCHOOL OR SOMETHING.
WELL, THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE LADY WHO LIVED IN THERE HAD BEEN A SCHOOL TEACHER AND OKAY.
SO IT WASN'T ACTUAL USE OF THE SCHOOL.
AND I'M RELATIVELY CERTAIN THAT'S, LAUREN PROBABLY KNOWS BETTER THAT IN OUR RESIDENTIAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
ISN'T THERE JUST ONE BUSINESS THAT OPERATES DOWN THERE? THE SHENANDOAH VALLEY AGING.
BUT THAT'S, UM, YOU HAD THAT, THERE'S ANOTHER NURSING HOME DOWN THERE.
I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, ON BLUE RIDGE IS ANOTHER HOUSE.
HE HAS A BIG SIGN IN FRONT OF HIS DOOR.
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FORGOT WHAT THE BUSINESS WAS ADVERTISING A BUSINESS WHEN? WHERE? ON BLUE RIDGE? ON BLUE RIDGE.WHEN I DROVE DOWN DOWN THAT ROAD TODAY? NO, NO, IT'S A COUPLE WEEKS AGO.
IT'S NOT THE ONE ON THE CORNER WHERE IT IS.
JUST, IT WAS A HOUSE IN POOR CONDITIONS.
THERE'S A SIGN OUT THERE, A SIGN.
WELL, IT WAS IN HIS WINDOW OF HIS HOUSE ON THE CORNER ACROSS FROM, UH, SKIP ROGERS GUY THAT I THINK HE DOES JUST SOME LITTLE, LITTLE STUFF OUT OF HIS HOUSE, BUT HE'S RIGHT.
THE ONES THAT ARE SINGLE FAMILY NOW AND BEING USED AS SUCH, I THINK THAT'S PRETTY WELL, AS FAR AS I KNOW SO FAR, IT SLAMMED DOWN.
IT'S ALL THE PRIOR USES AND BEFORE THE PLANNING GO, IF IT IS ANYTHING THAT WOULD A LANDLORD WOULD CONSTRUE AS SOMETHING DEVALUING HIS PROPERTY IS WHERE WE RUN THE PROBLEM.
AND SO BEYOND THAT, YOU'D BE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO DO OTHERWISE, UM, IF, IF IT WERE TO HAPPEN.
AT LEAST THAT'S, UM, JUST FROM WHAT I KNOW SO FAR, UM, AND I KNOW THAT'S, THAT THAT'S MESSY THAT WAY.
BUT BUT IT'S ALREADY ALREADY MESSY BECAUSE OF THE, THE MIX.
ALL THE OVERLAY CAME IN TOO LATE TO FIX THE WHOLE THING.
THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT TO GO BACKWARDS.
BUT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A PATH FORWARD.
THIS IS OUR FIRST GO AT IT, UM, TO FIND A PATH FORWARD WHERE
AND AND THAT'S WHY DRAWING THE LINE TO PRESERVE THE ONES YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I THINK IS A GREAT IDEA.
AND THEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DEAL, UM, THREE THREE, IT'S, IT IS LIKE BUILDING THE HOUSE AND, AND IF, UH, IF THE ZONING HAS CHANGED AND YOU, YOU ARE WITHIN IT, AND NOW NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU WANT TO EXPAND THE FOOTPRINT OF YOUR HOME, NOW YOU RUN INTO PROBLEMS BECAUSE NOW IT'S NONCONFORMING USES AND ALL THAT, THAT YOU ARE RUNNING INTO CERTAIN THINGS LIKE THAT POSSIBLY COULD BE CREATED WAYS OF USING THAT TO, IF WE ADD AN, AN EXCEPTION TO THE, TO THE LANGUAGE, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE ALREADY GOT A TOWN HOME ON YOUR PROPERTY, YOU, YOU, YOUR RIGHTS TO REBUILD A TOWN HOME, YOUR HONOR.
AND, AND IT DOESN'T EXCEED THE, THE OCCUPANCY THAT IT, IT CAN'T BE ANY DIFFERENT.
IT HAS TO LOOK AT LEASES GOOD, CAN'T BE ANY BIGGER, CAN'T BE AND CAN'T, BLAH, BLAH BLAH.
BUT CAN YOU MAKE THOSE, LIKE IF YOU'RE, IF YOU HAVE A TOWN HALL, LET'S SAY IF YOU, IT RUNS DOWN
SO FROM A VISUAL PERSPECTIVE, AND WE HAVE, SO, SO THE ONES LIKE THE, IT WOULD BE DOWN, IT WOULD TO, IT WOULD'VE TO CONFORM TO OUR GUIDE, OUR GUIDELINES THAT ARE A LITTLE STRICTER.
NO, NO, THEY, BEFORE THE BAR EXISTED.
SO, BUT IF IT WERE TO BURN DOWN TODAY AND THEY HAVE, WOULD THEY ALREADY, REGARDLESS OF ANY CHANGES, HAVE TO REBUILD ACCORDING TO THE HISTORIC ARCHITECTURAL GUIDELINES? YES.
THEY HAVE
BUT THEY, YOU KNOW, BUT THEY COULD AGAIN, THEY COULD, YEAH.
IT'S AN R THREE DISTRICT SO THEY COULD REBUILD TOWN HOMES OR WHATEVER.
UM, SO FOR THE PC, YOU GUYS ARE LOOKING AT THE, THE STATEMENT OF INTENT FOR THE R THREE DISTRICT, WHICH SAYS THAT THIS IS COMPOSED OF MEDIUM TO HIGH DENSITY CONCENTRATIONS OF RESIDENTIAL USES.
UM, THE STANDARDS OF THIS DISTRICT ARE DESIGNED TO STABILIZE AND PROTECT THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE AREA.
UH, SO DESIGNATED, ALSO DESIGNATED TO PROMOTE AND ENCOURAGE, UM, SUITABLE ENVIRONMENT FOR FAMILIES DESIRING THE AMENITIES, APARTMENT LIVING AND THE CONVENIENCE OF BEING CLOSEST TO SHOPPING EMPLOYMENT CENTERS AND OTHER COMMUNITY FACILITY DEVELOPMENT IS THEREFORE LIMITED TO MEDIUM TO HIGH DENSITY CONCENTRATION PERMIT PERMITTED USES ARE LIMITED TO SINGLE FAMILY, TWO FAMILY MULTIFAMILY PLUS ADDITIONAL USES SUCH AS SCHOOLS, PARKS, CHURCHES, AND
BUT, BUT THE HISTORIC DESIGNATION OVERLAY MODIFIES SOME OF THE, AND THAT ADDS THE NEXT LAYER.
AND THEN THE, THE STRICTER RESTRICTIONS WILL HOLD, WILL HOLD, WHICH ARE IN THIS CASE HISTORIC DISTRICT RESTRICTIONS MM-HMM
AND THEN WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, ONCE YOU HAVE THAT OVERLAY, THEN YOU THEN GO TO THE GUIDELINES WHICH PROVIDE ANOTHER LAYER OF HERE'S WHAT THESE BUILDERS NEED TO FOLLOW.
AND, AND THAT'S THE SECOND LEVEL OF THIS DISCUSSION THAT GO BEYOND THE, THE, THE GUIDELINES THEMSELVES OR WHAT THE RESTRICTIONS ARE MAY PROBABLY BEYOND THIS MEETING, BUT YEAH, THAT'S ALL THAT'S SET, SET BACK.
I SAID, WELL, NOT ONLY TO, TO THE EXTENT
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OF MATERIALS USED.BUT I KNOW YOU'RE WORKING WITH GUIDELINES AS FAR AS INSTEAD OF SPECIFICS.
AND I WATCHED YOUR LAST THREE MEETINGS YOU HAD AND I THOROUGHLY ENJOYED THEM.
UM, WELL, I, I I THINK THAT'S GOOD.
IF IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING, THAT'S HOW IT COMES BACK.
IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING.
I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT IF SOMEONE HAS, YOU KNOW, TOWN HOMES, I GUESS WE'LL HAVE TO FIGHT THE BATTLE WITH MAKING SURE THAT THEY, WITH HIS STORY.
BUT THEN WHAT, HOW DO WE HANDLE HANDLE WAY TO INCENTIVIZE THEM TO BUILD DIFFERENTLY? WE WERE CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
THERE WAS A WAY TO INCENTIVIZE THAT TO GO ALONG.
WHAT ABOUT TASK VACANT LAND THERE NOW THERE CONSTRUCTION.
I WOULD VACANT LAND PROVIDED, UM, I DON'T KNOW, IS THERE A TALE OF HISTORY WITH THE VACANT LAND? WHAT WAS ON IT BEFORE? YOU KNOW IF IT TREES PROBABLY IT WAS JUST, YEAH, TREES, CHICKEN, NOT WHOLE LOT.
SO I SOMETIMES PEOPLE WOULD PURCHASE MULTIPLE LOTS AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THEY'LL PASS AWAY AND YOU'VE GOT KIDS THAT LIVE HERE AND THEY'LL SELL IT.
AND THEN UNLESS THEY FEEL DISADVANTAGED BY THAT DESIGNATION BEING TOLD THEY CAN ONLY BUILD AN R ONE.
IS THERE, YOU'D HAVE TO ALMOST LOOK AT EACH.
WELL, I MEAN, WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE FEELS DISADVANTAGED IN THAT CASE WOULD NOT REALLY BE RELEVANT.
UH, SHOULD THIS GO IN BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ON THAT LOT.
THEY'RE CHOOSING TO BUILD SOMETHING THEN THERE'S SOMETHING THERE THAT WASN'T BEFORE.
HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT IT IS NOT REALLY, IF, IF THEY WERE SAY, WELL, UM, I'VE TALKED, I TALKED TO GRANT PAPPY AND HE ALWAYS WANTED TO BUILD A TOWN HOME THERE.
YEAH, I, THERE'S ALWAYS SOMETHING BEING I, I, I KNOW IT.
JUST TRYING TO THINK THIS THROUGH.
AND YOU MAY BE PERFECTLY RIGHT, I'M, I'M JUST PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE TO SOME EXTENT HERE THAT UH, UH, WANNA STAY OUTTA THE COURTS IF WE CAN'T.
BUT SOMETIMES YOU GO, YOU'RE IN THE COURTS.
THAT'S JUST THE WAY LIFE GOES.
IF I'M THINKING, I'M THINKING ABOUT IT.
THE LAST ONE I CAN REMEMBER THAT WAS RIGHT BEFORE THEY STARTED THE STORE DISTRICT.
SOMEBODY BOUGHT WHAT HAD BEEN AN OLD GARDEN LOT IN, BUT TOWN NOW WAS UP ON
NO, IT'D BE UP, UH, UM, GOING DOWN.
IT WOULD BE THE ONES RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO THE HOUSE.
OKAY, SO THEY WENT, THEY WANT 'EM RIGHT BEFORE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
SO THAT'S GONNA BE MID NINETIES.
MEGAN, YOU AND JOHN, WHEN YOU WERE AT TRAINED JOHN, YOU CAME BACK AND SAID THAT ROANOKE HAS LIKE PRE-APPROVED PLANS.
YEAH, SO ROANOKE IS THIS INTERESTING THING WITH PLANS THAT THEY HAVE DEVELOPED AND THEY'RE PRETTY COMPLEX, BUT UM, YEAH, THEY DO HAVE THEM WHERE THEY'RE PRE-APPROVED AND THE IDEA IS THAT IT HELPS A BUILDER MOVE ALONG A LITTLE BIT QUICKER, UM, ALONG THE PROCESS AND THEN HELPS THE TOWN GET WHAT THEY WANT OUT OF IT.
UM, SO IDEALLY EVERYBODY WINS.
UH, AND SO IT WAS SOMETHING THAT SEEMED REALLY INTERESTING FOR, YOU KNOW, JUST DEVELOPMENT IN TOWN OVERALL, UM, TO HAVE THESE, THESE PLANS IN PLACE WHERE SAY IF YOU WANT TO DO THIS, YOU CAN DO THIS EXACT THING, THEN YOU'RE GOLDEN ALREADY NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
UM, AND THAT IS, THAT WOULD BE POTENTIALLY INTERESTING HERE, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE LEVEL OF CONTROL THAT Y'ALL HAVE OVER WHAT THINGS LOOK LIKE.
UM, THAT WE WEREN'T ALLOWED TO TELL THEM EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT THOUGH.
WE DON'T HAVE PURVIEW OVER AESTHETIC NECESSARILY.
BUT WE DO HAVE CONTROL OVER ONTARIO.
WE CAN APPROVE MATERIALS AND SETBACKS AND SCALES.
WE CAN'T GIVE THEM AN EXACT DESIGN AND SAY YOU MUST DO THIS.
NO, BUT I, IT WOULDN'T BE A MUST, BUT IT WOULD BE A, HEY, IF YOU DO THIS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT.
IT WOULD'VE BEEN SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD'VE BEEN HELPFUL RECENTLY ON BLUE RIDGE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO GET SOMEONE'S HEAD AROUND A HISTORIC DISTRICT, ESPECIALLY A BUILDER THAT'S NOT USED TO BUILDING A HOME OF THAT STYLE OR WORKING IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, JUST THROWING UP TOWN HOMES, YOU KNOW, IT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT, THEY DON'T WANT JUST GUIDELINES.
WHAT CAN I DO RIGHT NOW? IT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER TO GET SOMEONE'S HEAD.
I THINK THAT'S WHY ROANOKE INSTITUTED, I THINK SIX DIFFERENT, I DON'T WANNA CALL 'EM MODEL HOMES.
EXAMPLES THAT COULD, THAT WOULD BE CONFIGURATION THAN THE OUTSIDE APPEARANCE.
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YEAH.AND THOSE WERE THE SIX OPTIONS YOU COULD BUILD THERE.
SO IT KIND OF SPEEDS UP THE PROCESS.
THE MATERIALS LISTED, THE, UH, FACADE OF THE HOUSE.
YOU COULD HAVE A COUPLE OPTIONS TO CHANGE IT AND THAT THAT'S ALL THAT WOULD'VE BEEN BUILT THERE.
THESE AREAS FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, COULD THAT POTENTIALLY PRESENT A PROBLEM WITH MAKING THINGS LOOK COOKIE CUTTER OVER TIME? ABSOLUTELY.
ESPECIALLY THE WHOLE PLACE PUT DOWN.
THAT WOULD BE A REAL TRAGEDY,
OR ULTIMATELY STILL A GUIDELINE OF SORT.
I DO THINK THAT IF WE CAN MAKE A MOVE TOWARDS SINGLE HOMES, REPLACED WITH SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AND NEW CONSTRUCTION ON VACANT LOTS, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, THAT WOULD BE, THAT THAT WOULD GO A LONG WAY.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.
I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S QUITE THE CHEAP.
AND YES, I, I WOULD, I WOULD JUST ON THE PLANNING OR THE ZONING PERSPECTIVE, I THINK MY RECOMMENDATION, YOU TRY TO TACKLE SOMETHING ON THESE EMPTY LOTS FIRST OR THE VACANT LOTS BECAUSE THEN WE'RE GOING TO RUN INTO NON-CONFORMING HOUSES.
AND WE DO HAVE PART OF THE CODE FOR NON-CONFORMING HOUSES IF THEY ARE DESTROYED.
'CAUSE IT DOES SAY NON-CONFORMING BUILDING INSTRUCTORS THAT ARE DAMAGED BY A NATURAL EVENT OR MANMADE ACCIDENT MAY BE REPAIRED OR RECONSTRUCTED TO THEIR PREVIOUS CONDITION AND SIZE IF THE WORK DOES NOT EXCEED 50% OF THE REPLACEMENT VALUE.
AND, AND THAT WAS WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
THAT MAY COME INTO PLAY FOR THESE HISTORIC HOMES.
WELL, LAURA, SO YOU, YOU MADE A REALLY GOOD POINT.
IT'S JUST KEEP IT SIMPLE, JUST LIKE WE DO FOR WINDOWS AND DOORS.
YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO COME THROUGH US LIKE THE, LIKE REPLACEMENT, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT OLD BEAUTIFUL WOOD WINDOWS AND REPLACE 'EM WITH OLD, BEAUTIFUL WOOD WINDOWS.
YOU'VE GOT A BEAUTIFUL OLD HOME.
YOU REPLACE IT WITH A BEAUTIFUL OLD HOME NON-ISSUE.
I THINK IF WE JUST, THE LANGUAGE CLEARLY STATES LIKELIKE REPLACEMENT.
SO IF YOU HAVE A TOWN HOME AND IT BURNS DOWN, REBUILD A TOWN HALL, COULD LIFE FOR A PROBLEM, THEN IF THE TOWN WAS BURNED DOWN, THEY GET BUILT AND NOW THEY HAVE TO GO UNDER THESE GUIDELINES.
IT'S LIKE FOR LIKE, IN TERMS OF WHAT'S THE, THE BUILDING TYPE, BUT THE ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS MAY BE DIFFERENT.
I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT GOOD.
WE'RE WORKING ON THAT SEPARATELY,
I THINK THAT'S FAIR TO SAY IS, UM, THEY WANNA KNOW EXACTLY WHAT MATERIAL.
THEY ALSO WANT MATERIALS THAT ARE NOT GONNA ROT IN SIX MONTHS AND THAT ARE GONNA BE SOMEWHAT AFFORDABLE, EVEN THOUGH PER THE CODE, THEY'RE NOT TO CONSIDER COST.
THE SECOND HALF, WHAT YOU SAID IS WHAT THEY'RE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT.
SO YEAH, I MEAN I IMAGINE THAT WOULD BE AN ISSUE BETWEEN ANY BUILDER AND ANY AREA THAT HAS A HISTORICAL DISTRICT.
I MEAN, I WAS READING THROUGH SOME OF BURG'S HISTORICAL GUIDELINES AND YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY NICELY LAID OUT, YOU KNOW, IMAGES AND WHATEVER.
BUT NONETHELESS, IF I WAS A BUILDER NOT USED TO BUILDING A HISTORIC AREA, I WOULD THROW UP MY HANDS AND SAY, JUST TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT.
AND SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT, I THINK IT'S GONNA BE A PROBLEM NO MATTER WHAT.
THAT'S WHY PART OF THE REASON YOU EXIST TO HELP THEM GUIDE THEM.
THERE HAS TO BE A BALANCE BETWEEN MAINTAINING THE CHARACTER OF THE, OF THE DISTRICTS AND, YOU KNOW, MAKING IT AFFORDABLE FOR THESE PEOPLE TO, TO, YOU KNOW, WORK THERE, BUILD HOMES AND LIVE THERE.
WE HAVE TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT MODERN MATERIALS, THEY'RE NOT GONNA LOOK THE SAME, YOU KNOW, IN ALL CASES THEY MIGHT PERFORM BETTER DEPENDING ON YOUR MINDSET.
THAT'S A BALANCE WE HAVE TO STRIKE BETWEEN PEOPLE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE THAT COME BEFORE US.
THAT'S A, IT'S A DIFFICULT, AND IF WE DON'T GET IT RIGHT, IT DOES.
THESE VACANT LOTS DO MAKE IT, THAT'S ANOTHER YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
THEY, THEY PUT LESS DESIRABLE STRUCTURES ON THERE.
THE LAST BUILDER THOUGHT, OKAY, IF WE JUST DO AN UPGRADED SIDING, LIKE YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY.
IT'S NOT HISTORICALLY ACCURATE.
YOU KNOW, IF WE GET A COUPLE MORE BEAUTIFUL HOMES ON DIFFERENT LOTS, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT LIKE, IT'S NOT POSSIBLE.
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THE PRESSURE, THE PRESSURE'S GOING GO INCREASE ON AND THEN, AND THEN IT'S ALWAYS GONNA BE A CONSTANT ARGUMENT.WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? PROBABLY.
OR LIKE I, WHEN THE MEETING YOU HAVE, WELL LOOK AT THAT TRASH HEAP ACROSS THE STREET.
NOW LOOK IT UP AND THIS IS WHAT I'M DOING HERE.
SO ALL THOSE ARGUMENTS COME INTO, OR YOU'RE BEING UNREASONABLE IF I HAVE TO BILL IT THE WAY YOU WANT TO DO IT, NO ONE, NO ONE CAN DOWN, CAN AFFORD IT.
ALL THOSE THINGS THAT PEOPLE LINE UP AND, AND SAY, WHICH ARE ARE JUST ARGUMENTS TO TRY TO REALLY BEAT YOU DOWN.
BECAUSE OUR, THE HOMES IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT, I MEAN, THEY'RE, THEY'RE SELLING FOR A STRONG PRICE RIGHT NOW.
THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN MAINTAINED AND PRESERVED.
THEY'RE SUCH A REALLY GOOD PRICE.
AND SO THE LAST, WE WOULDN'T KEEP THAT GOING, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY ONE DAY IN MY WORLD OF DREAMS THAT WE'LL HAVE A DOWNTOWN NEIGHBORHOOD IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT THAT'S FULL OF FOLKS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY WANNA LIVE IN ONE OF THOSE LOVELY HOMES OR EVEN IN A, IN A TOWN HOME.
YOU KNOW WHAT WE FINALLY LANDED ON FOR A BLUE RIDGE IN PROSPECT AND TAKE PRIDE IN.
AND THEN WHEN IT'S IN THE DEAD OF WINTER AND NO, WHEN TRAVELING ON SKYLINE DRIVE, THEY COME RIGHT ON DOWNTOWN TO OUR, YOU KNOW, HISTORIC COMMERCIAL DISTRICT AND THEY PATRONIZE ALL OF THOSE BUSINESSES DOWN THERE.
BUT IF WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST IS OKAY FOR THE FUTURE AS FAR AS MUST YOU KNOW, STUFF AND IT WON'T WORK.
OKAY, IT'S JUST GONNA CONTINUE TO DO THAT.
THAT'S ANOTHER LEVEL OF PLANNING INVOLVEMENT.
THERE WAS SOMETHING RIGHT, RIGHT UP AS WE GET INTO THAT'S ACTUALLY DEVELOPED RIGHT NOW.
PRESERVATION WITHOUT A PLAN OF RENOVATION IS NOT, IS ONLY HAS A SHORT LIFE.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE THE, THE RENOVATION GOING THROUGH AND THEN, UH, INVOLVING COMMERCIAL ENTITIES, UH, SELECTING GROUPS OF HOMES, A GROUP AND AREAS TO BUILD ANYWAY.
BUILDING, BUILDING A STOCK THAT AN AREA LOOKS GOOD ENOUGH THAT IT STARTS TO ATTRACT MORE INVESTMENT AS OPPOSED TO HOUSE HERE, HOUSE THERE.
BUT THAT PARTY PUTTING SORT OF THAT PLAN TOGETHER.
I KNOW THE TOWN HAS, UM, I KNOW THIS IS BEYOND OUR MEETINGS REALLY, BUT THE TOWN HAS A HISTORIC FUND, BUT THAT FUND IS MORE POINTED TOWARD BUSINESSES AND NOT RESIDENTIAL HOUSES.
SO POSSIBLY A DIFFERENT NON-PROFIT BEING FORMED, WORKING WITH THE TOWN WHERE THE TOWN COULD SAY, YES, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO THESE THINGS WITH THE STREETS IF IT'S, IF IT'S WORTHWHILE.
BUT THEY'RE NOT GONNA PUT MONEY IN THAT.
THAT'S ANOTHER WHOLE LEVEL OF DEVELOPMENT INVOLVING DEVELOPERS, VOLUNTEERS, NON PROFITS, UH, SEED MONEY AND ALL THAT SORT OF THING.
AND THAT, THAT GETS MORE AND LINE WITH WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WE WENT, WE TRIED TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD, WHAT WAS IT LAST YEAR WITH THE, THE DIOCESE OF ARLINGTON? UH, IS THAT WHAT IT WAS? YEAH.
THEY, THEY DO, UM, A SUMMER WORK CAMP AND THEY'LL, THE, THE YOUTH GROUP WILL, WILL CHOOSE A CERTAIN AREA TO SERVE ANYBODY WHO IS IN NEED OF, OF SOME IMPROVEMENTS.
AND BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE TOWN CAN'T ADVERTISE FOR THEM.
SO NO, THAT'S, THAT'S SO, AND THEY MAY NEED TO GET PERMITS.
THEY NEED TO CALL BEFORE THEY DO WORK IN TOWN.
DO IT HAS TO BE PROFITABLE IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
IT HAS TO BE RETURN, TURN A PROFIT DOESN'T HAVE TO, UM, HAS TO PAY FOR ITSELF AND BE PROFITABLE TO ATTRACT, UH, THOSE, THOSE PEOPLE IN WHO WANT TO DO THAT SORT OF DEVELOPMENT.
AND UH, IT CERTAINLY THERE'S BENEVOLENCE IN IT WITHOUT A DOUBT.
BUT, UH, THAT'S ALL PART OF A VERY EXOTIC PLAN.
IATION HAS TO GO WITH RESPONSIBILITIES AND FEEDBACK AND PROCESSES, THE WHOLE WHOLE THING.
BUT FOR NOW YOU'RE TRYING TO PRESERVE THE HOUSE.
BUT I'D LOVE TO HAVE THOSE OTHER DISCUSSIONS GOING AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
I THINK FOR NOW WE'D BE HAPPY JUST KEEPING WHAT WE GOT.
KEEP SO THE PRESERVATION, BUT WITH, WITH A PLAN THAT IT NEEDS TO GO FARTHER BEYOND THAT, BUT PRESERVE THE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AND, UH, SORRY.
SO THE WHOLE DOWNTOWN MR. SR THREE.
SO ARE WE ON A COLLISION COURSE WITH A LEGAL PROBLEM? IF WE TRY TO PUT IN SOMETHING THAT WOULD RESTRICT A SINGLE TENANT? AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT, IF IT'S, IF IT'S SO SEVERE THAT THEY'RE SAYING THAT YOU'RE TAKING THEIR PROPERTY RIGHTS, THEN, THEN YEAH.
I MEAN WE COULD RUN INTO LEGAL TOLL.
UM, BUT WHAT IF WE PUT THIS INTO OUR NEW ORDINANCE? WOULD THAT BE LEGAL CONTEXT? I THINK WE NEED TO WORK ON THE WORDING SO THAT IT'S NOT, I THINK THERE'S ENOUGH CONCERN
[00:30:01]
THEY THINK IT CAN BE DONE.I THINK IT'S, I THINK WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR IS FEASIBLE, BUT WE'RE GONNA NEED GEORGE TO HELP US CRACK THE LANGUAGE SO THAT WE DON'T GET OURSELVES INTO LEGAL TROUBLE.
BECAUSE MY WORRY IS IT'S R THREE IN THIS.
DO WE HAVE THESE VACANT PROPERTIES THAT ARE ZONED R THREE? SO NOW YOU'RE RESTRICTING THOSE TO SINGLE FAMILY ONLY.
SO NOW YOU'RE DOWN ZONING, YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY DOWN ZONING THEM OR SPOT ZONING DOWN ZONING TO THE LOWER INTENSITY, BUT ARBITRARILY ON VACANT LOTS SCATTERED THROUGH THE AREA.
THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE MY WOULD ARBITRARY, LARGEST CONCERN FOR, FOR LEGALITY PURPOSES.
WELL, WHAT WOULD BE ILLEGAL ABOUT THAT? BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE DOWN ZONING SOME DOWN ZONING IN BASICALLY SPOT ZONING
SO, SO YOU'RE, SO YOU'RE DOING SPOTS THROUGH THE AREA.
SO IF YOU GO, WE'LL JUST SAY, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS, WE'LL JUST GO WITH THIS.
SO LET'S SEE IF WE HAVE, IF YOU'RE NOT, IF YOU'RE DOING THE WHOLE DISTRICT, IT'S NOT JUST SPOTS.
IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT NOT EVERY SINGLE LOT'S VACANT.
SO I'M SAYING THOUGH, UH, SO THESE, SO THESE LOTS HERE, THOSE ARE OUR THREE, THOSE ARE TWO VACANT LOTS THERE.
SO IF YOU'RE RESTRICTING THAT, I LOOK ON THE ZONING PART, IT'S R THREE.
NOW YOU'RE DOWN ZONING THAT TO R ONE BASICALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE O OF, OF THE OTHER R THREE.
WE WOULDN'T BE CHANGING THAT ZONING TO EVERY SINGLE, SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING IS ZONED R THREE RIGHT NOW.
WELL THEN THAT, THAT'S GOING TO BE THE, UH, THE DILEMMA YOU'RE GOING TO BE IN.
YOU, WE HAVE TO CRAFT FOR WORK.
ARE YOU DOWN ZONING THE WHOLE AREA.
YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AT, AT THE LEGAL PART OF IT.
SO YOU'RE CHANGING, YOU'RE CHANGING THE USE FROM AN R THREE, WHICH IS ALLOWED FOR MULTI-FAMILY.
WE, FOR EXAMPLE, DOWN TO A SINGLE FAMILY.
THEN, THEN YOU'RE CREATING A, A DIFFERENT ZONE IS THE WAY I LOOK AT IT.
YOU'RE CREATING A A R ONE ZONE WITHIN THE R THREE.
SO THE LEGAL, I MEAN, TO ME IT SEEMS ON A ZONING PERSPECTIVE IS DOWN ZONING, THE WHOLE SECTION.
AND I MEAN, OF COURSE WE'D HAVE TO BE CHALLENGED ON IT.
'CAUSE DOWN ZONING IN AND OF ITSELF IS NOT ILLEGAL.
BUT WE CAN GET, I CAN UNDERSTAND SOMEBODY WOULD BE KIND OF IRATE IF YOU BOUGHT A PIECE OF PROPERTY, RIGHT? SO IF YOU WOULD HAVE THESE TWO VACANT LOTS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE R THREE AND THAT GOES BACK TO, AND NEW CONSTRUCTION LIMITS THAT TO A R ONE SINGLE FAMILY, IT UM, I WOULD BE WORRIED ON THAT END, LAUREN.
THAT MEANS THE LANGUAGE NEVER CHANGE.
'CAUSE LIKE THE OTHER END OF THIS IS THE COMP PLAN CALLS FOR THIS TO BE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL, THE WHOLE, THE ENTIRE HISTORIC DISTRICT TO BE NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT MEANS THAT OVER TIME THE COMP PLAN SEES THE ENTIRE SECTION FROM JACKSON STREET TO SOUTH STREET BEING ABLE TO BE USED IN COMMERCIAL OR RESIDENTIAL, LIKE IN COMMERCIAL USES THAT COULD FIT THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
LIKE LITTLE MARKETS OR LIKE SPAS OR SALONS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
BECAUSE AT LEAST IN PLANNING LITERATURE, COMMERCIAL ENTITIES TEND TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THESE HISTORIC STRUCTURES BETTER THAN RESIDENTIAL OR HOME.
WELL, AND LANDLORDS DON'T TEND TO CARE.
ANOTHER THING ON THIS, OKAY, WHAT'S THE LANGUAGE THEY USE LIKE IN THE CITIES SIZE OF THE LOTS? HOW DO THEY KEEP FROM COMING IN AND PUTTING SHOTGUNS IN SHOTGUN? WE HAVE A MINIMUM LOT SIZE REQUIREMENT.
WELL, WE CAN'T AT THESE SHOTGUN LOTS, THESE SMALL LOTS, THEY DO NOT MEET ZONING SIZE REGULATIONS.
THEY, THEY, THEY'RE NOT WIDE ENOUGH, BUT THE ZONING DOES ALLOW, IF THEY CAN MEET THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS, THEY CAN BUILD THERE.
SO THAT'S HOW YOU GET THESE TYPICAL, WHAT THEY CALL SHOTGUN HOUSES.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE SIDES ARE ONLY SEVEN FEET BY SEVEN FEET.
SO, SO THERE'S ONE ON, THERE'S ONE ON CHESTER STREET DOWN NEAR THE END, UH, NEAR THE SECOND STREET.
THEY PUT IN THERE, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, THERE WAS A HISTORIC DISTRICT SHOTGUN WHERE PUT A LONG NARROW, LONG, NARROW LOT IN A LONG NARROW HOUSE.
LIKE A SO, SO TYPICALLY THESE LOTS, WE'LL JUST SAY ONE OF THE HOUSES 60 FEET WIDE, RIGHT? 60 FEET WIDE.
[00:35:01]
WE'LL JUST SAY FOR EXAMPLE, AND YOU HAVE SEVEN ON EACH SIDE.SO NOW YOU'RE DOWN TO, UH, 46 FOOT WIDE TO BUILD ON SOME OF THESE OTHER ONES THAT ARE ONLY A A, UH, A 30 FOOT WIDE LOT.
YOU TAKE SEVEN OFF EACH SIDE, NOW YOU'RE DOWN TO FOUR.
NOW YOU CAN TURN THE HOUSE AND ONLY HAVE A 16 FOOT WIDE HOME, RIGHT? SIDEWALK? YES.
AND THAT, AND THAT IS PERMITTED, THAT'S WHAT THEY REFER TO AS SHOTGUN HOMES.
'CAUSE YOU TURN 'EM THE OTHER WAY, IF YOU WANT A 16 FOOT BY HOME, WE WOULD PERMIT IT.
BASICALLY YOU HAVE LIKE A THREE FOOT WOOD HALLWAY THAT ACCESSES EVERY ROOM AND THEY'RE JUST STACKED.
TYPICALLY WHEN PEOPLE CALL IN AND THEY ANSWER, I I, WE GO OVER THESE WITH THEM.
I'D SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU PROBABLY WANT THE HOUSE AT LEAST 20 FOOT WIDE BECAUSE IT'S A TOWN, LIKE A TOWN HOME.
IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO SELL A HOUSE 18 FOOT WIDE, IN MY OPINION.
WHEN YOU GET A TOWNHOUSE AT 20, DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU ARE.
BUT YOU CAN, I MEAN, SO YOU'RE GONNA RUN INTO THAT POSSIBILITY WITH THESE INFILL, SMALL INFILL LOTS.
YOU CAN GET SMALL, BUT THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING REALLY TO DO WITH.
THERE'LL BE A SMALL HOUSE, BUT THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE A MULTIFAMILY THAT THAT.
I MEAN THAT'S NOT EVEN THE ONLY, THAT'S WHAT I WORRY ABOUT.
THESE VACANT LOTS THAT ARE OUR THREE, YOU'RE RESTRICTING THEM TO ONLY A SINGLE FAMILY.
THEY'RE NOW, THEY'RE ZONED R THREE AND THEY COULD PUT I, I UNDERSTAND EVERYBODY'S CONCERN.
THAT'S A BIT, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HAVE A HISTORIC DISTRICT WHEN LOTS OF PEOPLE GOT HOMES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT MM-HMM
AND NOW WE DO AND THEY HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THOSE ORDINANCE.
'CAUSE WE CREATED THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
SO I THINK IT'S, I DON'T SEE HOW THIS IS ANY DIFFERENT.
I MEAN, INSURANCE COMPANIES EVEN PROVIDE FOR THAT WITH BUILDING ORDINANCE AND LAW COVERAGE.
SO IF YOU MOVE SOMEWHERE AND THE ORDINANCE HAS CHANGED, YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL COVERAGE BUILT INTO YOUR INSURANCE ON TOP OF YOUR REGULAR INSURANCE TO HELP YOU COMPLY WITH THE NEW ORDINANCES AND LAWS THAT THE TOWN MAY IMPLEMENT.
IS IS YOUR VIRTUAL TRAINING OVER WITH, UH, THE FIRST TWO DAYS? I STILL THE TWO DAYS IN JUNE.
BUT WHAT, UM, I WAS JUST SAYING THAT IF YOUR CLASS WAS TOMORROW, YOU COULD ASK THAT QUESTION ABOUT DOWNTOWN.
WELL ACTUALLY WE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THIS TODAY.
WHEN, WHEN, THAT'S WHY, UM, I BELIEVE THE LEGAL TEST, AND WE NEED, GEORGE, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE TO TALK ABOUT THIS IS IF BY DOING THIS, ARE WE DECREASING THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY? I THINK WE'RE ACTUALLY INCREASING.
IF, IF IT'S, IF THE ANSWER'S INCREASING, THEN WE'RE GOLD DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK.
BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT CASE STUDY.
THAT'S WHERE WE NEED GEORGE TO DO THIS.
SO THAT'S GONNA BE THE LITMUS TEST.
IF, IF ARE BY DOING DOWN ZONING, ARE WE DECREASING THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY? IF, IF SO, THEN THEY, THEY CAN, UM, DEMAND A COMPENSATION.
SO YOU WANNA KNOW IF RESTRICTING THE USE TO FROM MULTIFAMILY TO SINGLE FAMILY IS GOING TO DECREASE, DECREASE THE VALUE OF THE PROPERTY.
TYPICALLY THOUGH, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ARE VALUED HIGHER THAN THE
THAT'S WHY I THINK THIS IS GONNA BE OKAY TO DO THAT.
BUT WE'D HAVE TO GET, WELL, I WOULD SUGGEST WE, WE WRITE IT AND THEN RUN IT THROUGH GEORGE AND SEE WHAT HE SAYS.
WELL, WE'VE GOT DRAFT TEXT, SO THAT'S, BUT I WANTED YOU GUYS GET TOGETHER.
WE NEED TO MODIFY THAT A LITTLE BIT, UM, TO, TO COVER THESE CASES OF THE BIKE LOTS AND UM, AND UM, TOWN HALL, YOU KNOW, TRUCTURE EXISTING STRUCTURES.
SO STAFF WILL PUT THIS ON YOUR NEXT WORK SESSION TO CONTINUE TO CRAFT THE LANGUAGE.
UM, AND THEN WE CAN ALWAYS DO ANOTHER JOINT SESSION WITH BARR AND PC TO MAKE SURE YOU GUYS ARE ON BOARD WITH THE LANGUAGE.
OH, WE STILL ON THE SAME PAGE.
SO THIS IS THE TWO 40, RIGHT? THIS IS THE TWO 40 BLUE RIDGE.
THESE ARE THE HOMES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ACROSS THE STREET.
DO WE KNOW OFFHAND IF THERE'S ANY VACANT LOTS THAT HAVE, UH, THAT WHERE THE LOT SIZE IS 20,000 SQUARE FEET OR HIGHER ONE BEHIND YOU? NO, THERE'S, LET'S SEE WHAT THAT ONE THERE IS
THE ONE BY BESIDE MY BROTHER'S.
OH, IS IT? WELL, WE KNOW THAT I WILL DIE AND THE CHURCH WILL STILL OWN IT AND DO NOTHING WITH IT.
SO NOW I KNOW FOR EXAMPLE, THESE HERE, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS WITH THESE LOTS, THIS CORNER HERE.
WELL, THE, THE THING IS, I'M LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO USAGE PERMIT OF OUR RIGHT AND R THREE TOWN HOMES CAN ONLY BE DEVELOPED ON SITES OF 20,000 SQUARE FEET TO AN ACRE.
SO IF THERE'S ONLY A COUPLE SPOTS EVEN POTENTIALLY THAT WOULD HAVE A LOT SIZE OF THAT, THEN IT'S A MOOT POINT.
WELL, IT IT, THEY GET CREATIVE SO THEY'LL
[00:40:01]
BUY UP MORE.SO THEY, YOU CAN BUY UP A COUPLE LOTS CONSOLIDATE AND THEY CONSOLIDATE THE LOT INTO A 20,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT.
LIKE WE'VE HAD THOSE THAT ARE RUN DOWN MM-HMM
THEY KINDA HIDE THESE, IF YOU WOULD.
AND THEY LOOK FOR THESE THAT THEY COULD COMBINE.
AND I THINK AT ONE TIME ANOTHER LOT, THEY WERE ACTIVELY FRONT TRYING TO ADD TO ANOTHER LOT HERE IN TOWN.
UH, FRONT STREET PROBLEM, THEY GOT PROBLEM DOWN THERE WITH, UH, BLOOD.
SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY SINGLE FAMILY IS IDEAL IN YOUR PERSPECTIVES HERE ON WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR AND IF NECESSARY, UM, WHEN IT COMES TO NEW CONSTRUCTION, UM, YOU'D BE OKAY WITH COMPROMISE INSTEAD TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS? I THINK SO, YEAH.
WE CAN STILL UNDERSTAND JUST RECENTLY.
THERE ARE SOME DOWN THERE THAT DO.
UM, VERY VISIONARY MAYBE AND MAYBE JUST CRAZY, BUT MAYBE SOMEDAY FRONT ROYAL WILL GET A DOWNTOWN PARKING GARAGE AND IT WOULD BE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THAT WOULD BE, UM, PROBABLY BE IN THE BUSINESS AREA THOUGH.
AND THEN THE SPACE ON THE, ON JACKSON STREET, YOU KNOW, THE OLD STOKE, I DON'T KNOW.
SHOULD THAT BE INCLUDED IN, YOU WANT YOUR LANGUAGE TO LIMIT ALL NEW CUTS, NEW CONSTRUCTIONS, YOUR RESIDENTIAL PORTION, A SINGLE FAMILY HOME OR TION JUST AT THE RESIDENTIAL, RIGHT? YEAH.
THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE JACKSON STREET.
WELL THEY, THAT WOULD BE DOWN IN THIS DOWNTOWN BUSINESS DISTRICT HERE.
BUT ISN'T THE SOUTHERN BORDER OF DOWNTOWN BUSINESS DISTRICT JACKSON STREET MM-HMM
ANYTHING NORTH OF EAST JACKSON.
BUT THE SPACE NOW IS THE VALLEY HEALTH BUILDING RIGHT OFF, RIGHT BEHIND THE GAZEBO THING.
SO YOU, YOU'RE ONLY WORRIED ABOUT RESIDENTIAL, SO YOU WOULDN'T CARE WHAT THE PARKING RIGHT.
THEY'RE ONLY WORRIED ABOUT OR OH, WE DEFINITELY WOULD, BUT FOR THIS CONVERSATION WE'RE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE RESIDENTIAL.
WHAT CAN GO YEAH, WE DEFINITELY WOULD.
I'M LOOKING AT, I'M LOOKING AT THE STATEMENT OF INTENT HERE.
I MEAN, IT'S VERY CLEARLY STANDARDS ARE DESIGNED TO STABLE AND PROTECT THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE AREA.
SO DESIGNATED AND THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER OF THIS PLACE IS SEEMINGLY PRETTY CUT AND DRY.
UM, SO YEAH, I MEAN I THINK THE IDEAL WOULD BE SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES AND IF WE HAVE TO DO DUPLEXES TO MAKE IT SO WE DON'T GET SUED, THEN SURE.
DUPLEXES AND TWO FAMILIES BORROW CODES.
WE WANT AVOID, ACTUALLY AVOID DUPLEXES IF IT ALL POSSIBLE.
I HAVE A SUGGESTION OR JUST A THOUGHT.
UM, THIS, THIS COULD DRAG ON FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS JUST BECAUSE OF THE, THE PROCESS AND ALL THE UH, A POSSIBLE WAY OF HANDLING THIS.
UM, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS IS, UH, SINCE WE CAN'T HAVE THREE, WE CAN'T HAVE COMMUNICATION TOO MUCH OVER EMAIL OR ELSE IT CONSTITUTES A MEETING.
BUT WE COULD HAVE, UM, I'LL CALL IT A BOOK BOSS.
THE BOOK BOSS DRAFTS INITIAL LANGUAGE AND CAN SEND IT OUT TO THE GROUP.
PEOPLE CAN RESPOND ONLY TO THE BOOK BOSS AND NOT TO EACH OTHER.
AND THEN THAT BOOK BOSS WOULD THEN TAKE AND COMMUNICATE TO, WITH THAT INDIVIDUAL TO SAY IF THE, IF THE ITEM IS ACCEPTED OR REJECTED, SAVE THAT ALL THAT INFORMATION AND BRING IT BACK TO OUR NEXT FORMAL MEETING.
AND THEN WE CAN GO OVER ALL THOSE COMMENTS AND WHY IT WAS ACCEPTED AND REJECTED.
THAT WAY THIS CAN CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD AND YOU'RE VOLUNTEERING.
YEAH, I WAS GONNA SAY, ARE YOU VOLUNTEERING
BOOK BOSS IS THE ONE WHO'S MOST QUALIFIED AND HE'S GOT THE, HE OR SHE HAS THE, I THINK HE LOOKING AT YOU
BUT I, I'LL DO THAT THEN, THEN ONCE WE, ONCE WE HAVE ALL THE COMMENTS BACK AND, AND COMMUNICATE WITH ALL THE, AND, AND PART OF THE BOOK LOSS IS THE PAIN, PAIN POSTERIOR, YOU'RE SAYING I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM YOU.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT? TO, TO THE SMES SPECIAL, YOU KNOW, THE SUBJECT MATTER MATTER EXPERTS.
SO SOMEONE'S GONNA DRAFT LANGUAGE, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? AND YOU'RE GONNA SEND IT OUT TO US DRAFT LANGUAGE, WHICH THAT, WHICH I'LL SAY IS THE 80% SOLUTION TO SEND OUT TO THE GROUP.
THE GROUP THEN RESPONDS BACK WITH, UM, WITH, UH, WITH, UH, INPUTS NOW IT'LL BE UP TO THE SME OR THE, UM, BOOK BOSS ALSO.
I NEED GEORGE TO TELL ME AN ANSWER.
GO RESEARCH THAT IN ORDER TO ANSWER THE SMS QUESTION
[00:45:01]
OR WHERE THE CASE MAY BE.ONCE THAT IS ALL DONE, THEN WE CAN COME BACK AND, UH, PUT THAT FINAL TEXT OUT THERE ALONG WITH ALL THE COMMENTS AND SAYING, YOU, YOU, YOU SUGGESTED THIS, UM, IT WAS GREAT.
I INCORPORATED, YOU SUGGESTED THIS.
AND WE CAN RUN THROUGH ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF AND, AND, AND THAT WAY, UM, ANYWAY, IT'LL MOVE THE PROCESS ALONG.
'CAUSE OUR CURRENT PROCESS, THIS IS SO LABORIOUS.
NO, I, I DON'T THINK WE'RE NOT VIOLATING ANY, ANY RULES THAT WAY AND, AND WE'RE NOT HAVING A PUBLIC MEETING, BUT ALL THE INFORMATION THAT WE'RE GATHERING IS PRESENTED TO THE PUBLIC.
SO LARNER, ARE YOU GONNA DRAFT THE LANGUAGE INITIALLY AND THEN LET US, OKAY.
AND WE HAVE SOME, I CAN TWEAK THAT AND THEN I'LL RESEND IT OUT.
THEN YOU GET BOOK CALLS DUTIES.
YOU'RE GONNA GIVE SOMETHING INITIAL TO START WITH AND I'LL GET BOOK CALLS.
DO THEY WANT TO TACKLE THE, I I KNOW YOUR MAIN CONCERNS IS THIS NEW CONSTRUCTION OR, OR RECONSTRUCTION, NEW CONSTRUCTION? I THINK NEW NEWER HOMES COMING IN.
UM, DO YOU THINK ABOUT OR TO MOVE THE PROCESS ALONG? I MEAN, DO YOU WANT TO TRY TO TACKLE UH, JUST REWRITING THAT SECTION OF THE NEW CONSTRUCTION PART OF THE GUIDELINES? THAT'D BE GREAT.
IT'S A, UH, UPDATING THAT SECTION.
PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE MUCH WORK.
SO YOU UH, I MEAN I, BASED ON OUR PAST EXPERIENCE, IN MY OPINION BASED ON PREVIOUS APPLICATIONS, I THINK THAT'S THE, WHERE THE BAR HAS LITTLE BIT OF OPPOSITION ON THE INTERPRETATION OF THE CODE BETWEEN THE DEVELOPER, THE BUILDER AND EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, AND 'CAUSE IT'S HARD TO VISION STUFF TO ME WHEN IT'S NOT LAID OUT.
AND THEN USUALLY THEY COME TO YOU AND THEY WANT WANT TO KNOW WHAT, WHAT CAN WE BUILD HERE? YOU TELL ME.
SO THIS HAS A LOT OF MAY AND SHOULD.
THAT'S GOTTA BE A LOT MORE SHALLOW.
I DO HAVE A, A QUESTION, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I GET A CONFIRMATION ON THIS.
SO YOU DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S ANY WAY THAT WE CAN PUT SOME GUIDELINES AROUND THE USE OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOME
WELL THAT'S LIKE FOR LIKE RIGHT.
IF YOU'RE, UM, NOT IF IT BURNS DOWN.
I'M JUST SAYING IT'S, I BUY, CAN I GO IN THERE AND DIVIDE IT ALL UP? THE EXISTING HOME? IT'S, WE'LL JUST SAY 3,500 SQUARE FOOT.
SO THE DWELLING UNITS NEED TO BE 600.
SO IN THEORY YOU COULD DO FIVE, 600 SQUARE FOOT DWELLING UNITS WITHIN THE BUILDING IF IT WAS OWNED.
R THREE, UH, NO, UH, BECAUSE YEAR IN THE R THREE YOU COULD UH, NO YOU COULD NOT DO THOSE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT BECAUSE THAT'S R THREE.
R THREE ONLY ALLOWS THE TWO FAMILY.
NO, R ONE ALLOWS NOTHING BUT SINGLE FAMILY.
I THOUGHT R ONE WAS, SO R THREE ONLY ALLOWS THE TWO FAMILY.
R TWO IS SINGLE FAMILY, TWO FAMILY.
AND R THREE ALSO BRINGS IN, UM, TOWN HOMES.
SO, SO YOU, THESE HISTORIC HOMES, IF THEY'RE IN THE R THREE DISTRICT, THE MOST YOU COULD RENOVATE THAT TOO WOULD BE ONLY A TWO FAMILY WELLING.
SO YOU ALREADY, HOW DO WE, HOW DID WE END UP WITH ALL THESE APARTMENTS? BECAUSE THEY WERE CHOPPED UP EITHER WITHOUT ANY PERMITTING HAPPENING.
OR THEY WERE CHOPPED UP PRIOR TO THE DISTRICT.
SO THEY, THEY PRIOR TO THE DISTRICT, HOLY, IT'S WITHOUT PERMITS BECAUSE YOU WALK IN THERE AND THERE'S NOT CODE.
THIS THAT'S AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.
LIKE WE HAVE TO BE INVITED IN AND LIKE SOME OF THESE THAT WERE, THEY WERE CHOPPED UP IN THE, YOU KNOW, 80, 90, THE BUILDING PARK HAS NO RECORD OF IT.
WE GO IN THERE AND WE'RE LIKE, WHAT IS THIS? OKAY, SO SO THESE EXISTING HISTORICAL HOMES, IS THAT THAT WHAT YOU'RE CONCERNED IF SOMEONE WANTS TO RENOVATE THAT NOW? YES.
THE INTERIOR ALTERATIONS, YES.
THE MOST THEY COULD HAVE IS A TWO FAMILY DWELLING IN THAT.
[00:50:02]
I KNOW YOU HAVE A LOT WITH WHAT YOU CALL APARTMENTS.APARTMENTS ARE NOT PERMITTED UNDER THE CODE IN THAT SECTION, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE.
I MEAN THAT'S TOTALLY WHAT THEY ARE.
AND HOW MANY OF THESE HAVE BEEN, HAVE BEEN, HOW MANY OF THESE HOUSES HAVE BEEN CUT UP SINCE THE DISTRICT WAS ESTABLISHED? WE DUNNO.
THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW BECAUSE NO, YEAH.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE ENFORCE LAW THIS AND HOW, HOW THAT COULD BE DONE.
WE'RE STILL FIGURING OUT, DID YOU WATCH OUR LAST BAR MEETING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT ENFORCEMENT? I DUNNO IF WE EVEN GOT ANY ANSWERS.
WELL, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO PULL PERMITS TO DO THAT STUFF.
WELL YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT BUT IF THERE, IF THE APARTMENTS THERE, THE ONLY WAY PLANNING CAN GO WELL IS IF SOMEBODY, OKAY, SO DOES THAT, DOES THAT HELP NEW OR EXISTING ONES? JAN, I JUST TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD THAT.
BECAUSE YOU HAVE MULTIPLE CHOPPED UP HOUSES.
UM, UNFORTUNATELY YEAH, WE HAD THAT ISSUE.
I MEAN WE CAUGHT SOME IN THE PAST HERE RECENTLY AS FAR AS THEY COME UP FOR SALE, RIGHT.
I WAS LIKE THIRD METER REALLY?
SO THEN WE REALLY ARE JUST TALKING ABOUT RECONSTRUCTION AFTER A FIRE OR NEW CONSTRUCTION ON UH, AN EMPTY LOT.
AND IF SOMEBODY'S TRYING TO ADD METERS, THAT'S AN ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.
ENFORCEMENT ALSO, I THINK IF YOU HAVE A LIST OF ALL THE THINGS THAT REQUIRED AND YOU, AND THAT WAS YOUR, YOUR POCKET LIST AND IT WAS DONE WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT WE'RE WORKING THROUGH GETTING ALL THE DEVELOPMENT STUFF THAT'S GOING ON AND, UH, THESE, THESE THINGS ARE UM, ARE WHAT ARE AND ARE NOT LEGAL, UH, THAT MIGHT TAKE CARE OF SOME OF THAT FOR THE SAKE OF REINFORCEMENT NOW, UM, UH, FIND OUT WHICH ONES THEY ARE AND, AND THEN LEGALLY GETTING IN THERE, JUST USING THE PUBLIC TO HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
WELL WE DID SEND A LETTER, RIGHT? WE DID.
I'M JUST ALL PROPERTY OWNERS MAKING THEM AWARE.
JUST A REMINDER, YOU'RE IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
JUST AND HERE'S A, HERE'S HOW YOU FIND THE GUIDELINES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
HOW MANY DEPARTMENT, I DUNNO DID THAT? YEAH, QUITE A FEW.
YEAH, IT'S A COMPLICATED, IT'S A COMPLICATED ISSUE OF THE WHOLE STARK DISTRICT AND BRINGING IT BACK TO SOME FORM OF GLORY.
AND, AND SOME HOUSES ARE VERY NICE WHEN PEOPLE, MANY OF THEM ARE VERY NICE.
AND THEN WE, WE GOT AN INSTANCE ON ANOTHER STREET, NOT IN HISTORIC DISTRICT, WHERE SOMEONE DID SOME STRUCTURAL ALTERATIONS IN, IN THE INTERIOR AND CREATED THREE DWELLING UNITS AS OUR CODE REFERS TO WHAT, WHICH THEY CAN ONLY, THEY COULD HAVE THOSE BUT THE SIZE WERE TOO SMALL AND THEY RAN ACTUALLY EXTENSION CORDS.
WHAT COULD, WHAT COULD GO WRONG? ELECTRIC.
SO THE NEW OWNER COME IN TO GET PERMITS AND YOU KNOW, THE BUILDING CODE, THE COUNTY BUILDING CODE HAS TO CATCH 'EM WITH BUILDING INSPECTIONS.
THEY DID WORK WITHOUT A PERMIT.
SO THAT STILL HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY WE TRY TO, WE CATCH 'EM IN OUR END FOR MAJORITY OF THE PART.
AND SAME SAME WAY WITH PEOPLE RENOVATING THEIR BASEMENT.
OF COURSE IN, IN THE R ONE THEY WANNA ADD A BEDROOM AND A BATHROOM DOWN THERE, WHICH WE ALLOW THAT.
BUT THEN WHEN THEY GET A KITCHEN FACILITY, WE STRICTLY PUT THAT ON THE CODE OR THE APPROVAL.
NO KITCHEN FACILITIES DOWN THERE.
BUT THAT'S ONES THEY WANNA MOVE THEIR MOTHER-IN-LAW IN OR YEAH.
ONE OF THE KIDS WON'T LEAVE THE HOUSE.
SO FOR OUR PURPOSE IN THE R ONE WE GET THAT.
WHERE WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE ABOUT THE, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THE REGULATION FOR THE FIRST AND OUR OUR SOMEONE GETS GONNA TAKE A CRACK AT UPDATING THOSE PAGES.
WHERE WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THAT.
YOU'VE BEEN WORKING THAT ALREADY AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S PART OF THIS GROUP OR NOT.
ITS PROBABLY SOMETHING WE'RE WORKING ON SEPARATELY.
BUT I THINK WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED WHAT WE SET UP.
THANK YOU GUYS FOR PUTTING THIS TOGETHER.
[00:55:01]
VERY MUCH.THANK YOU FOR THE IDEA WAS VERY, VERY, VERY INTERESTING.
AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO GETTING TOGETHER AGAIN AFTER WE HAMMER AROUND SOME DETAILS.
IT'S BEEN A POINT OF HEARTBURN FOR US.
NOW WE HAVE TO WATCH NOW BACK ON THE TWO FAMILY.
NOW OUR CODE ALLOWS THOSE TO BE ONE ABOVE THE OTHER OR SIDE BY SIDE.
SO SOMEONE TO TAKE AN OLDER HOME.
YOU COULD HAVE ONE ENTRANCE AND YOU KNOW, COME IN THE MAIN DOOR, THEN HAVE A FOYER IF YOU WANT.
THEN A SET OF STAIRS GOING TO THE SECOND FLOOR.
YOU CAN'T PUT A SECOND FRONT DOOR ON WITHOUT ASKING OUR PERMISSION.
SO YOU REALIZE A TWO FAMILY CAN BE ONE ABOVE THE OTHER? YEAH, FROM THE OUTSIDE IT WOULD STILL LOOK LIKE A SINGLE FAMILY HOME OR SIDE BY SIDE.
THIS IS MY FIRST APARTMENT IN STRASBURG.
THERE'S SOMEBODY ELSE UPSTAIRS THEY INTERESTED AROUND BACK IN THE FRONT DOOR.
IT LOOKED LIKE A PERFECTLY NORMAL HOUSE.
THAT'S WHAT OUR REFER TO FAMILY.
LOT OF GOOD BERG, MY HOUSE BACK THEN.
UM, SOMEONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
IT'S A PLEASURE MEETING YOU GUYS.