[00:00:02]
THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL, MARCH
[Planning and Zoning Work Session on March 5, 2025.]
THE FIFTH.WE'LL COME TO ORDER, UH, MS. POTTER, CAN YOU CALL THE ROLE I CAN? AND AS YOU'RE PREPARING TO CALL THE ROLE, I'LL INTRODUCE OUR NEW MEMBER, TERESA ENRIKA, WELCOME TO YOUR FIRST MEETING.
UH, AND TERESA IS A, UH, UH, DATA MINING EXPERT.
UH, SO SHE IS GOING TO HELP US MINE INFORMATION GOING FORWARD.
I AM SURE I NEEDED, OH, YOU'LL, IT'LL BE NEEDED.
MR. MR. NEIL IS A GEOLOGY EXPERT.
SO HE HAS AEROSPACE ENGINEERS.
WHAT CAME FROM, WELL, HE'S AN AEROSPACE ENGINEER, BUT HE HAS A LOT OF GEOLOGY BACKGROUND.
AND OUR WORK SESSION, BUSINESS FIRST ITEM 2 5 0 0 0 DASH FOUR NINE.
SPECIAL EXCEPTION BY HANOCK FOR PROPERTY OF 1321 HAPPY CREEK ROAD, MR. WARE.
ALRIGHT, SO YOU SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED, UH, PACKET, UH, ADDRESSING THESE ITEMS. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE FOUR WORK SESSION BUSINESS ITEMS TONIGHT.
UH, SO THE FIRST ONE IS 25 0 0 4 9.
THAT'S A REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION, UH, FROM TOWN CODE AFTER 1 48 8 20 D SIX.
UH, THAT'S SUBMITTED BY HANOCK, H-C-L-L-C FOR THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1321 HAPPY CREEK ROAD UNIFIED TAX MAP, 20 A 21 DASH TWO DASH FOUR, UH, TO REDUCE THE REQUIRED MINIMUM STREET WIDTH FROM 36 FEET TO 29 FEET.
SO THOSE THAT YOU HAVE SERVED ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR SOME TIME WILL RECOGNIZE THIS PROJECT.
IT IS THE MARSHALLS GLEN, UH, SUBDIVISION THAT WENT BEFORE YOU IN 2024 FOR A REZONING.
SO IF YOU RECALL A LITTLE BIT ON THIS PROJECT, UH, IT WAS APPROVED FOR REZONING.
UH, THEIR ENTRANCE WILL COME OFF OF HAPPY CREEK ROAD RIGHT IN AND RIGHT OUT ONLY, UH, THEN ALIGNED WITH ODIN STREET AT THE EXISTING SUBDIVISION.
SO THIS IS A, UH, CALMING, UH, TRAFFIC CALMING, UH, WORKSHEET.
SO THIS, THESE STREET, THIS STREET WILL NOT BE A THROUGH STREET IN PARTICULAR.
UH, THEY WILL PUT STOP SIGNS AT THESE INTERSECTIONS AND RAISED CROSSWALKS HERE SO THAT THOSE ARE HIGHLIGHTED IN THIS WHITE HAIR.
HERE IS THE RAISED, UH, CROSSWALKS WITH STOP SIGNS.
SO TRAFFIC WON'T CONTINUALLY FLOW THROUGH THE SUBDIVISION.
THEY WILL HAVE STOP SIGNS AT THIS INTERSECTION.
UH, SO IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT, IF YOU REMEMBER ONE THE REZONING, UH, THERE'S THE LOCATION OF THE PROPERTY OFF OF HAPPY CREEK ROAD, AND HERE'S THE EXISTING STREET THAT WE WOULD TIE IN HERE AT ODIN STREET.
SO THAT'S THE AERIAL VIEW OF THE PROPERTY AND THE, UH, TAX MAP OF VICINITY MAP THERE OF IT ALSO.
SO, BACK TO THE, UH, ROAD PLAN THAT THEY GIVE THE TRAFFIC CALMING PLAN, UH, YOU NEED TO TAKE THAT IN CONSIDERATION, UH, WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING HERE.
SO THEY'RE PROPOSING WITH A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO RE REDUCE THE WIDTH OF THE ROAD PROPOSED ROADS.
UH, SO THEY DID SUBMIT A, UH, AN APPLICATION FOR THAT, AND THEY DID CITE UNDER SPECIAL EXCEPTION OF TOWN CODE 1 48 2 11 A TWO B.
SO THAT DOES GIVE THEM THE RIGHT TO A SPECIAL EXCEPTION BASED ON, UH, B HERE, UH, THAT'S WHERE YOU WOULD SEE IF THIS IS APPROPRIATE OR NOT FOR THIS APPLICATION.
UH, THE DESIGN EMPHASIS ON THE PRINCIPLES OF TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN, INCLUDING PEDESTRIAN FINLAY ROADS, INTERCONNECTION OF LOCAL ROADS WITH EXISTING LOCAL STREETS AND CONNECTIVITY OF PEDESTRIAN NETWORKS IN MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOODS.
THAT'S RIGHT OUT OF TOWN CODE.
SO YOU SHOULD HAVE, UH, UH, REVIEWED THIS LETTER THAT THEY, UH, SUBMITTED, UH, THEIR REASONING BEHIND THAT, UH, THAT WITH THE CALMING, UH, TRAFFIC CALMING STUDY THAT THEY DID AND IMPLEMENTATION OF THAT, UH, THAT IS DEMONSTRATED TO SLOW THE TRAFFIC THROUGH THAT SUBDIVISION.
UH, THEY WILL NARROW THE STREET, AND THAT'S BASED ON ANALYSIS THAT A NARROW STREET DOES OFFER SLOWER SPEED OF TRAFFIC, AND IT DOES HELP WITH PEDESTRIAN SAFETY ON THAT.
SO THAT WAS BROUGHT UP TO THEIR ATTENTION DURING THE REZONING PROCESS FROM THE PUBLIC HEARING, THE PUBLIC WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE SPEED OF TRAFFIC
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THROUGH THAT SUBDIVISION.THAT WAS ONE OF THEIR CONCERNS DURING THE REZONING PROCESS.
SO THEY TOOK THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.
AND THEY HAVE APPLIED AGAIN TO REDUCE THE STREET WITH FROM TOWN CODE THAT REQUIRES A 36 FOOT WIDE STREET TO A 29 FOOT WIDE STREET.
SO THEY'RE AT ODIN STREET, UH, THAT THEY WILL, UH, TIE INTO THAT STREET ACTUALLY IS 40 FOOT WIDE FROM FACE THE CURB TO FACE THE CURB WITH PARKING ON, UH, BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET AND PICKET COURT, WHICH IS IN THE HAPPY CREEK.
KNOLL SUBDIVISION IS 36 FOOT WIDE.
THEY ARE ALSO PROPOSING IN THEIR LETTER THAT PARKING WILL ONLY BE ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET, UH, ALSO WITH THEIR, UH, THAT'S ON THE FIRST PART OF THE PARAGRAPH 25, 9 FOOT WIDE WITH PARKING ON ONE SIDE.
UH, THE OFF STREET PARKING FOR THESE HOUSES WILL ACCOMMODATE AT A MINIMUM OF FOUR PARKING SPACES.
OFF STREET PARKING TOWN CODE REQUIRES TWO.
THEY WILL HAVE FOUR OFF STREET PARKING SPACES, UH, PER HOUSE AT A MINIMUM.
HOW ARE THEY DOING THAT? IF I CAN INTERRUPT YOU? THAT'S IN THE DESIGN OF THE, UH, DRIVEWAYS IN THE HOUSES.
AND, UH, YES, THEY CAN ACCOMMODATE FOUR OFF STREET PARKING PER LOT OR PER HOUSE AT A MINIMUM.
SOME OF 'EM WILL HAVE A FEW MORE.
SO THEY'RE, UH, DOING THIS 29 FOOT WIDE WITH PARKING ON ONE SIDE.
THAT'S THEIR, UH, APPLICATION FOR THIS, UH, FOR DESIGN OF SAFETY.
UH, SO THEY GIVE A LITTLE BIT.
IF YOU READ THROUGH THE PACKET, THERE'S A PHOTOGRAPH FROM A STREET THAT THEY DID IN FREDERICK COUNTY SHOWING THE DESIGN, HOW THAT WOULD WORK.
SO OUR TOWN CODE UNDER THAT SECTION, UH, FOR LOCAL STREETS.
UNDER OUR CODE, WE REQUIRE A 36 FOOT WIDE PAVEMENT WIDTH.
AND THAT IS FROM FACE, A CURB TO FACE, A CURB, UH, AND WHICH IS CITED UP THERE IN OUR PART OF THAT CODE.
MINIMUM DESIGN STANDARDS OF THE FOLLOWING TABLE SHALL BE REQUIRED FOR ALL LOCAL STREETS.
HOWEVER, COLLECTOR STREET, UH, ARTERIAL STREETS SHALL BE DESIGNED TO VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION ROAD DESIGN MANUAL.
SO COLLECTOR STREETS, WE REQUIRE THEM TO BE 36 FOOT WIDE.
SO THEY'RE ASKING TO, UH, SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO REDUCE THE WIDTH.
UH, VDOT DOES SUPPORT THE DECREASE IN THE WIDTH.
UH, THEY REACHED OUT TO VDOT AND VDOT DID SUPPORT THE DECREASE IN THE WIDTH FROM 36 FEET TO 29 FEET.
VDOT ON THEIR SUBDIVISION STREETS, RIGHT OUTTA THEIR DESIGN MANUAL.
UH, THEY ALLOW 24 FOOT WIDE WITH PARKING ON ONE SIDE, BUT THEY'RE APPLYING FOR THIS 1 29 FOOT WIDE, BUT PARKING ON ONE SIDE.
SO VDOT WOULD ALLOW DOWN TO A 24 FOOT WIDE WIDTH IF YOU'RE PARKING ON ONE SIDE, BUT THEY'RE ASKING FOR A 29 AND PARKING ON ONE SIDE FOR VDOT STANDARDS.
YOU COULD PARK ON BOTH SIDES, BUT THEY'RE REQUESTING 29 FOOT ON ONE SIDE.
UH, SO THAT DOES MEET THE VDOT STANDARDS FOR A SUBDIVISION, AND THAT'S RIGHT OUT OF THE VDOT DESIGN MANUAL.
SO THAT'S THEIR RENDERING OF THAT 29 FOOT WIDE CURB TO CURB, UH, PARKING ON BOTH SIDES UNDER THE VDO THING.
BUT THEY ARE APPLYING FOR ONLY PARKING ON ONE SIDE.
SO IT DOES MEET, UH, OR EXCEEDS THE VDOT STANDARDS FOR PARKING ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET.
UH, SO THE ROADS WERE CLASSIFIED, UH, THROUGH VDOT.
UH, THE PRINCIPAL PART OF THE ROAD, SO UNDER OTHER, THAT IS HAPPY CREEK ROAD THAT IS CLASSIFIED UNDER OTHER, UH, I'M SORRY, ROUTE 55 IS OTHER.
AND HACKEY CREEK KNOLL IS A MAJOR COLLECTOR.
SO THIS PORTION OF THE STREET OF THE SUBDIVISION WOULD BE DOWN HERE UNDER THE LOCAL STANDARDS, UNDER VDO T'S CLASSIFICATION.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? I DON'T WANNA GO TOO FAST WITH THIS.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? UH, SO VDOT DID, UH, VDOT DID, SAYS WE CAN SUPPORT THIS SINCE IT ALREADY MEETS OUR STANDARD.
SO VDOT DOES SUPPORT THE REDUCTION IN THE WIDTH, UH, ADVANTAGES.
JUST WHY ARE THEY ONLY DOING ONE SIDE PARKING? IF THEY CAN DO BOTH BASED ON THEIR STUDIES, IF THEY, THEY ARE ACCOMMODATING TRAFFIC PARKING OFF STREET, WHICH WE REQUIRE TWO PARKING SPACES, THEY'RE DOING FOUR MM-HMM
BUT ONLY ALLOWING TRAFFIC ON ONE SIDE.
THEY DO FEEL THAT'S A LITTLE BIT SAFER WITH THAT WIDTH THAN PARKING ON BOTH SIDES.
THEY FEEL THAT'S SAFER FOR WHO, UH, PEDESTRIANS AND TRAFFIC, EVEN THOUGH THEY COULD DO IT DOWN TO 24.
I WAS THINKING AS, AS, AS YOU WERE SAYING, I WAS THINKING
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IF THEY REALLY ARE TRYING TO CONTROL SPEEDING, PARKING ON BOTH SIDES WOULD DO A BETTER WELL, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE DOING THE TRAFFIC, TRAFFIC CALMING MEASURES WITH THE STOP SIGNS AND THE CROSSWALKS YEAH.TO SLOW TRAFFIC THROUGH THERE.
ANOTHER QUESTION, WHICH I THINK IS PROBABLY A SILLY QUESTION, BUT, UM, WHEN, WHEN ALL OF THESE SPECIFICATIONS ARE MADE, LIKE THE ONE THING I'M THINKING OF IS EMERGENCY VEHICLES AND THE SPEED BUMPS AND ALL OF THESE, LOOK, I'M SURE THAT'S ALREADY TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, BUT THAT, THAT IS GONNA TAKE WELL, THE REASON THAT IS, IS BECAUSE THE, UH, THE FIRE CODE DOES REQUIRE THE STREET TO BE 32 FOOT WIDE IF YOU'RE PARKING ON BOTH SIDES.
SO THEY ARE DOING 29 ON ONE SIDE.
OKAY? SO THEY MEET EVERYTHING FOR THE FIRE CODE AND, UH, ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT VDOT REQUIRES.
SO THAT'S ONE THING THEY TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION IS THE FIRE CODE.
SO THAT MEETS ALL THE CONDITIONS FROM THE FIRE CODE AND FOR VDOT STANDARDS.
SO I'M GLAD YOU, UH, ASKED THAT QUESTION.
UH, SO ADVANTAGES TO REDUCE THE WIDTH OF THE ROAD.
UM, ONE, UH, ONCE THESE STREETS GET ADOPTED, UH, VDOT APPROVES THESE STREETS FOR ANY SUBDIVISION, UH, AND THEY'RE BUILT TO THEIR STANDARDS, UH, THE TOWN WOULD SUBMIT APPROVAL FOR VDOT FOR THAT TO BE ADDED INTO OUR ROAD PROGRAM.
UH, WE DO THAT ANNUALLY THROUGH PUBLIC WORKS.
THEN THE TOWN FOR THESE STREETS WOULD GET, UH, MAINTENANCE FUNDS FOR THE STREETS THROUGH THE VO PROGRAM.
SO THE MAINTENANCE FUNDS IT TAKES, UH, WE GET REIMBURSED FOR MAINTENANCE FUNDS FOR THESE STREETS.
UH, THAT'S USED FOR OBVIOUSLY PLOWING THE SNOW AND REPAVING.
SO THE REDUCTION OF 36 FOOT TO 29 FOOT OBVIOUSLY REDUCES THE TIME AND THE EFFORT TO PLOW ROAD WITH, TO REDUCING THE WIDTH OF IT.
SO, BUT IF THE EXCEPTION ISN'T GRANTED STILL, IT DOESN'T AFFECT VDO.
T'S NOT TELLING US WE NEED TO DO THIS EITHER SAYING THAT IF YOU WANT TO DO IT, YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND DO IT.
SO THE WAY THAT THE REV OR THE MAINTENANCE FUND WORKS IS BASED ON THE LENGTH OF THE ROAD.
OKAY? IF IT'S A A MILE LONG BASED ON THE WIDTH, AND YOU'RE GETTING A CERTAIN DOLLAR AMOUNT FOR MAINTENANCE FUNDS, OKAY? AND THAT'S FOR ALL STREETS THAT MEET THE VDOT, UH, SPECIFICATIONS.
WE GET MAINTENANCE FUNDS FOR THOSE SO LONG, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A PAVING PLAN HERE FOR THE TOWN, PROJECTED PAVING PLANS, UPGRADE STREETS.
UH, SO THAT IS, THAT MAY MONEY IS USED TO IF YOU HAD TO MEAL OR OVERLAY THE PAVEMENT TO DO THAT.
SO PROBABLY WITH THE 36 REDUCTION DOWN TO 29, THAT WOULD SAY, UH, TIME AND MONEY THAT TOWN WOULD EXPEND IN THE FUTURE.
SO THAT, THAT'S ONE ADVANTAGE OF GOING WITH A SMALLER STREET WIDTH THAN THE 36 FOOT.
DOES THE, DOES THE TOWN PUT IN THE STREETS WHEN THEY'RE BELT OR DOES THE DEVELOPER, THE DEVELOPER PUTS THOSE IN AND THEY'RE INSPECTED SO THEY HAVE TO BE PUT IN THE VDOT STANDARDS? YES.
SO, UH, SO HE DID, HE DID PUT THE LETTER TOGETHER THAT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO READ, UH, FROM THE APPLICANT, UH, WHEN THE RATIONALE TO REDUCE THE STREET WIDTH.
UM, AND A LITTLE BIT OF THE BACKGROUND ON THE PLANS THAT SHOW THE, THEY'RE ALSO DOING, AGAIN, THE IMPLEMENTING STOP SIGNS, AND HE'S RAISED MEDIAN CROSSWALKS.
I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY CALL THEM A SPEED BUMP, BUT THEY ARE RAISED TO SLOW TRAFFIC AT THESE INTERSECTIONS, UH, TO BE, TO DECREASE THE SPEED THROUGH THE SUBDIVISION.
THERE ARE SOME DOWNSIDES, OF COURSE.
VULNERABILITY TO BLOCKAGES ARE STILL GREATER.
UM, WHAT WAS THAT? VULNERABILITY TO BLOCKAGES IS GREATER, UM, UH, COLLISIONS TO THE CARS PARKED ON THE ONE SIDE LOSING MIRRORS AND STUFF THAT, THAT INCREASES, UH, FOR, FOR THE NARROW ROADS.
UM, SO THERE ARE SOME DOWNSIDES GO WITH IT.
UH, AESTHETICS FOR HOW THE ROAD WOULD LOOK, UH, TO, TO THE, TO THE RESIDENTS LIVING ALONG IT AND, UH, IS, IS A DOWNSIDE.
UM, AND I REALLY LIKE HOW THEY'RE DOING THE STOP SIGNS AND STUFF WITH THE RACE.
UM, AND WHAT COMES TO MIND IS IF THIS IS, IF THIS, WE WERE TO ACCEPT THIS, WHY SHOULDN'T THIS BE THE NEW STANDARD FOR THE TOWN AS OPPOSED TO JUST DOING IT HERE? THAT IS PROBABLY SOMETHING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION SHOULD REVIEW AND PUBLIC WORKS SHOULD REVIEW IF IT'S IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE BDOT STANDARDS FOR STREETS, FOR LOCAL STREETS.
JUST, UM, UH, THE VO MANUAL WAS UPDATED, UH, UH,
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REVISED IN 2021.THEY DID A REVISION TO SOME OF THIS IN 2021 ON THEIR STREETS TALK, TALKING TO SOME NEIGHBORS FROM MY UNSCIENTIFIC, UNOFFICIAL POLE.
UM, GOING TO THE NARROW STREETS ISN'T POPULAR, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE FULL STORY EITHER THAT COULD GO ALONG WITH IT.
AND SO THAT, THAT WOULD SEEM TO SAY THAT DOING THINGS LIKE THIS SHOULD BE, UM, IT, IT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED IN OUR, LIKE YOU SAID, SHOULD BE ADDRESSED AS MAKE IT THE STANDARD AND TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE PUBLIC FORM AND STUFF BEFORE CHANGING, BEFORE JUST GOING FOR AN EXCEPTION AT LEAST.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS THINK.
UM, THEY'RE CITING THIS AS, SO, I, I MEAN, I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THAT.
UM, SO I, DO WE WANNA STATE IN THIS, OR, WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT AT THIS POINT.
ARE, ARE YOU
NO, I'M JUST, JUST, JUST, JUST PUTTING OUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT, UM, THAT THERE, WHEN I DID THE INVESTIGATION THAT THERE WERE SOME CONS THAT CAME UP TO GO ALONG WITH IT.
AND, AND I, I, THERE WILL BE SOME RESISTANCE TO IT.
AT LEAST THAT'S THE, THE IMPRESSION I GET THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT.
AND, AND THEN AL ALSO, THE THING IS, IS THIS THE TIME TO, I, I KNOW THAT THERE'S, THEY WANT IT BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING, THEIR DEVELOPMENT.
BUT IF, SHOULD WE, UM, GO THROUGH AND CHANGE THE TOWN CODE BEFORE DOING THIS? SO SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS HAPPENED BEFORE.
LET'S BREAK IT DOWN INTO THREE DIFFERENT QUESTIONS BECAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'VE GOT THREE DIFFERENT THINGS ON THE TABLE, BUT THE ONE IS, DO WE WANNA TALK ABOUT PROPOSING IN OUR UPCOMING ZONING ORDINANCE REVIEW SETTING A NEW STANDARD? YEAH.
SO THAT'S QUESTION A, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE TO ADDRESS.
SO THAT WOULD HAVE TO, WE WOULD'VE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT PUBLIC WORKS FOR COMMENTS ON THAT.
AND, AND WE CAN'T EVEN, WE REALLY SHOULD, THEY HAVE A DESIGN STANDARD.
SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO FIRST CHANGE THEIR DESIGN STANDARDS MANUAL, BUT WOULD AS WE'RE
AND, AND WE WOULD'VE TO HAVE MORE INFORMATION THAN JUST THIS LITTLE THING, THE LETTER FROM, YOU KNOW, LETTER FROM THE DEVELOPER.
AND SO THAT, THE QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT TO, DO WE WANNA DO THAT? AND THE OTHER QUESTION IS, THIS PARTICULAR PROPOSAL IS GONNA MEET RESISTANCE.
AND SO WELL JUST, JUST GOING, LIKE I SAID WITH UNOFFICIAL, JUST, JUST JUST OFF, OFF THE TOP OF TRYING TO, TRYING TO GET A FEEL FOR IT.
'CAUSE THE INITIAL REACTION IS, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, UM, THE LOOK OF THE TOWN THAT, THAT'S REALLY, IT'S, IT'S THE FEEL I MOVED TO FRONT ROW 'CAUSE I WANTED THE OPEN, THE OPEN LOOK.
BUT THE SO THE RIGHT OF WAY WILL NOT CHANGE THE RIGHT OF WAY.
AND, AND THE CONCERN ORIGINALLY WAS SOME, A RESIDENT ODIN ABOUT, UM, THE SPEEDING GOING DOWN AND IT WON'T HELP THEM AT ALL.
THIS WILL NOT HELP THEM AT ALL BECAUSE BY THE TIME WE GET THE FIRST STOP SIGN, YOU KNOW, THEY WILL ALREADY ZOOMED DOWN THE ROAD IS RIGHT.
THE STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THE, THE NARROW OF THE STREET IS SAFER.
NO, THERE, THERE'S TRAFFIC PLUSES.
TRAFFIC TRAFFIC GOES SLOWER THAN THOSE, THAN THE WIDER STREETS.
JUST, JUST, UH, MAYBE I JUST WANT TO CONSIDER RIGHT, THE PLUSES AND MINUSES YES.
I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY I'M FORWARD AGAINST IT.
I'M JUST TRYING TO SAY THERE'S PLUSES AND MINUSES.
THOSE MAY BE QUESTIONS YOU MAY WANNA ASK THE APPLICANT.
AT THE MEETING IN TWO WEEKS, IS THERE A LOSS OF A SIDEWALK? NO.
SO YOU STILL WILL HAVE SIDEWALKS? YES.
IT'S JUST A NARROW, ANY CHANGE IN THE SIZE OF THE SIDEWALK? NO, IT'S JUST THE ROAD WILL COME.
DO YOU COMMENT? OH, I DID THEN.
SO WHEN THIS PROJECT WAS FIRST AT THE PUBLIC HEARING, YES, THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE TALKING ABOUT TRAFFIC AND PEOPLE ZOOMING THROUGH.
UH, THE, IF, IF I RECALL, THE BIGGEST CONCERN WAS JUST THE INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF CARS.
UH, THERE WAS A PASSING COMMENT OF PEOPLE ZOOMING THROUGH.
AND IF YOU'RE ADDING STOP SIGNS AND RAISED CROSSWALKS ANYWAY, UM, WHICH I'M UNSURE OF THE GUARANTEE OF THEM ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THROUGH TO THE FULL EXTENT WITH THAT IF THEY'RE REQUIRED TO AT THIS POINT OR NOT.
BUT REGARDLESS OF THAT, LET'S SAY THEY DO PUT THEM IN, I AGREE WITH YOU.
IT HAS NO EFFECT ON THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY REALLY.
EXCEPT SOMEONE WHO LIVES IN MARSHALLS, GLEN WOULD KNOW, OH, OKAY, I GOTTA SLOW DOWN SOON.
UH, BUT THE NUMBER OF CARS AND EVERYTHING ELSE WOULD BE EXACTLY THE SAME.
UH, AND YOU KNOW, THE PART OF CODE THAT THEY'RE CALLING, UH, YOU KNOW, TALKING ABOUT PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY ROADS, PEDESTRIAN NETWORKS, UM, YOU KNOW, I'VE DRIVEN THROUGH THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD
[00:20:01]
OF THIS A NUMBER OF TIMES, AND THERE REALLY AREN'T THAT MANY PEOPLE WHO WALK AROUND A WHOLE LOT EXCEPT FOR THE KIDS RUNNING BACK AND FORTH.BUT THEY'RE GOING ACROSS PEOPLE'S FRONT LAWNS.
UM, AND SO I DON'T SEE THE PART OF CODE THAT THEY'RE CALLING FOR TO BE PARTICULARLY RELEVANT.
IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING FOR THE INTERCONNECTION OF NEW LOCAL STREETS.
IT'S NOT A MIXED USE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WOULD QUALIFY AS MORE TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN OR NOT.
UM, SO I, I JUST, I DON'T KNOW.
I, I CAN SEE ON THE ONE HAND WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM.
I LIVE ON A PRETTY NARROW STREET THAT HAS PARKING ON BOTH SIDES.
UM, 'CAUSE THERE'S ALSO A LOT OF KIDS ON THAT ROAD.
UH, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF SOMEONE IS GONNA JUMP RUN OUT, I HAVE WAY LESS TIME TO ACTUALLY SEE THEM.
SO I'M NOT TRYING TO FIGHT THE STUDIES.
THEY ARE WHAT THEY ARE, AND I AM FINE TO SUBMIT TO THAT.
BUT I DON'T KNOW, I JUST, THEY, THEIR ARGUMENT FOR ASKING FOR THIS DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT HOLDS AS MUCH WATER AS THEY WANT IT TO, PERHAPS.
AND SOME OF THE, SOME OF THE EXTENT WHAT I COULD FIND, LIKE I SAY, IT WAS HARD TO RESEARCH THIS, IS THERE INCREASED NUMBER OF BICYCLE ACCIDENTS ON THE ROADS LIKE THIS BECAUSE OF THE BICYCLES RIGHT.
IN THE ROAD WITH A NARROWER ON THE ONE SIDE.
SO THAT WAS ONE THING I, I RAN ACROSS.
THERE'S SOME MORE SAFETY FACTORS IF THE PEOPLE IN DO DEEP, SLOW DOWN MM-HMM
AND, AND, AND THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING.
BUT I BELIEVE FOR THEIR APPLICATION WITH THE RAISE WALKS, AS YOU SAID, AND THE STOP SIGNS, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE GOING FAST ANYWAY.
AND, AND AS YOU ALSO SAID, PEOPLE ON DEN ARE NOT IMPACTED.
UH, SO TOWN CODE DOES NOT REQUIRE THE RAISED CROSSWALKS? NO.
COULD, I'M JUST SAYING IF THEY, IF THEY COULD, COULD, WELL JUST THE STOP SIGNS ALONE WOULD BE BUT TO SLOW THINGS DOWN, LET'S SAY IT'S RUN THE STOP SIGN.
I MEAN, IF THEY ELECTED TO NOT DO THE RAISED CROSSWALKS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T GET THE NARROWER STREETS, I THINK YOU WOULD MAKE IT VERY OBVIOUS WHAT THE, WHAT THE
UH, I DO YOU WANNA ANSWER, PLEASE? UH, YEAH, I MEAN, I'M JUST GONNA PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT.
WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT JUST NARROWING THE ROAD.
THROW HYPOTHETICALS, PEOPLE COULD BE STRUCK, THERE COULD BE MORE BICYCLE ACCIDENTS AND WHATNOT, BUT IT'S, IN MY MIND, PRETTY SIMPLE.
THEY'RE JUST REDUCING THE STREET BY SIX FEET.
UM, TRAFFIC CALMING IS THE ISSUE HERE.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP COMING FROM HAPPY CREEK DOWN TO LEACH RUN MIGHT BE A CONCERN THAT VEHICLES TRYING TO DO A CUT THROUGH THERE.
SO I THINK THIS WOULD HELP DISCOURAGE THAT TOO.
AND KIND OF LIKE WHAT MS. RAZZO MENTIONED, CERTAIN STREETS, YOU DO HAVE TO SLOW DOWN BELOW 25 ANYWAY BECAUSE OF THOSE ISSUES.
WELL, THAT'S THE LIMIT OF THE TOWN ANYWHERE IN TOWN'S SUPPOSED TO BE 25, RIGHT? YEAH.
RESIDE SUPPOSED TO BE SUPPOSED TO BE.
SO, YEAH, I MEAN, MAYBE I'M LOOKING AT IT TOO SIMPLY, BUT I THINK IT'S A FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD THING.
AND THEN TALKING ABOUT THE CODE AMENDMENT AND WHATNOT, THAT MAY BE SOMETHING DOWN THE ROAD.
BUT AGAIN, THIS IS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
SO WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS AT FACE VALUE.
AND AGAIN, PUBLIC HEARING IS MY GRANTING IS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
I I I WOULD OBJECT THAT WE'D BE GRANTING IT GOING FORWARD.
NO, AND I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH THAT.
THAT THAT'S ALL, THAT MAY BE SOMETHING WE'RE BOTH, BUT I WANT, I WANNA GO BACK TO WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT BICYCLES, BECAUSE ISN'T THERE A BICYCLE LIGHT ON HAPPY CREEK OR ISN'T PROJECTED EVEN FOR THIS SECTION OF HAPPY CREEK? HAPPY CREEK? YES.
SO, BUT IF, IF, IF WE DO GET ALL THESE HOUSES AND THEY ALL GET POPULATED AND PEOPLE HAVE BICYCLES IN THESE HOUSES, THAT COULD BE A WHOLE LOT MORE BICYCLES.
UM, SO THEY, IS THAT GOING TO BE, DOES THE TOWN CODE NOR THE STATE CODE SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT REQUIRING BICYCLE LANES? WHAT'S THE STATUS? CORRECT.
AND HAPPY CREEK GETS IT BECAUSE IT'S A COLLECTOR ROAD THAT WAS UN UNDER PRIOR TO MY TIME.
THAT, THAT'S PROBABLY A QUESTION ASKED, UH, OR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT AT ONE TIME.
AND THERE'S A BICYCLE ANALOG LEASE RUN, RIGHT? UH, YES.
SO NORMALLY YOU DON'T CREATE BICYCLE PATHS IN A SUBDIVISION.
UM, ONE THING I JUST WANT TO MENTION, UM, YES.
THEIR EXCEPTION IS GOING FROM 36 DOWN TO 29.
JUST AS A COMMENT, ODIN STREET, THE CURRENTLY EXISTING ODIN STREET IS 40 FEET.
SO THE DIFFERENCE IN WIDTH IS A FULL 11 FEET,
[00:25:01]
WHICH IS NOT INSIGNIFICANT.UM, SO I MEAN, WHAT RELEVANCE THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE I, IS VERY INTERSECTION'S, GOT A FUNNEL IN THERE.
SO IT'S A, IT'S A, IT BECOMES A FUNNEL.
UM, CALM THE TRAFFIC OR GIVE A MEETING OF THE MINDS AND ALSO LOOK A BIT ODD.
YOU'RE GOING INTO A DIFFERENT, UH, SUBDIVISION.
AND THAT'S, I THINK WHERE THEY'RE GONNA BE PLANNING ON PUTTING THE SIGN AS WELL, IF I RECALL.
WHERE THAT RIGHT NOW, HEY, GIVE 'EM MORE ROOM TO PUT, THEY'RE SIGNING
WE'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT THE RIGHT OF WAY WILL STAY THE SAME.
IT'S THE PAVEMENT, IT'S THE PA THE ISSUE BEFORE YOU IS THE PAVEMENT WIDTH.
AND IF YOU'VE GOT A 29 FOOT STREET AND THERE'S A, A, A BIG SUV OR PICKUP PARKED ON THE SIDE, HOW MANY FEET CLEARANCE DOES THAT LEAVE FOR FIRETRUCK AND STUFF? OBVIOUSLY IT MEETS THE STANDARDS FOR EMERGENCY ACCESS VEHICLES.
WITH THE 25 9 FOOT WIDE PARKING ON ONE SIDE.
AND YOU JUST WON'T BE DRIVING PAST IT WHEN THE PARK, WHEN IT'S PARKED THERE.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S ONE OF THE DOWNSIDES.
DO WE NEED TO, DO WE HAVE AGREEMENT AMONG OURSELVES? ONE ANOTHER QUESTION.
UM, SO THE EXAMPLE OF IMAGE THAT THEY GIVE FROM NEVERMORE DRIVE, UM, YOU KNOW, THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE IS THAT YOU HAVE THESE EXTRA LITTLE, I FORGET WHAT THEY'RE CALLED, THE, THE GREEN PATCHES BETWEEN THE SIDEWALK AND THE ROAD.
UH, IS THAT WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO DO WITH THEIR SUBDIVISION? BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF ASPECTS TO THAT THAT I THINK COULD MAKE A LOT OF SENSE.
AND YES, I UNDERSTAND WE'RE LOOKING AT THE PAVEMENT AND THE WIDTH OF THAT, BUT THE EFFECT THAT IT HAS ON THE COMMUNITY, GIVEN THE POWDER OF CODE THAT THEY'RE CITING, I THINK CAN BE RELEVANT.
IS THAT PART OF THEIR PROPOSAL? OR IS IT JUST THE, JUST THE, THE WIDTH THE TOWN CODE TAKES IN PLACE IN ACCOUNT WHAT THE WIDTH OF THE SIDEWALK IS REQUIRED TO BE.
DO YOU LIKE UTILITY STRIPS, MS. MORESO? UH, NOT WHEN I HAVE TO MOW THEM, BUT I THINK
I GREW UP IN A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAVE HAD 'EM.
AND, UM, I CAN TELL YOU THAT IF WE DIDN'T, THE CHANCES OF US AS KIDS BEING IN MORE DANGER WOULD'VE BEEN HIGHER.
SO, WELL, I, I, I, I LIKE 'EM TOO, AND I REALLY LIKE 'EM WHEN SOMEBODY PLANTS A MAGNOLIA TREE.
I'M ONE OF THOSE UTILITY STRIPS AND THEN COVERS USUALLY A SIDEWALK.
SO THAT HAS, THEY HAVE THEIR, THEY HAVE THEIR DOWNTIME.
WE WOULD NOT, WE WOULD NOT ADVOCATE PLANTING TREES THERE.
IT'S IN THE TOWNS RIGHT OF WAY.
SO YOU COULD PUT A BUSH, BUT YOU COULDN'T PUT IT NO, IT'S WITHIN THE TOWN'S RIGHT OF WAY.
OH, YOU MEAN THE UTILITY STRIP YOUR GRASS.
SO THE TOWN'S RIGHT OF WAY IS GONNA GO.
SO THEN THEY CAN'T DO ANY GRASS, SO THEY SHOULDN'T OKAY, OKAY.
WELL, PERSONALLY WE NOT GONNA, WHAT WE DID WAS JUST SOME GROUND LEVEL FLOWERS.
SO IT WAS THE SAME HEIGHT AS THE GRASS, BUT PURPLE.
THAT WAS PRETTY, YOU'RE JUST THAT RISK FOR THEM COMING ALONG, DIGGING UP AT ANY TIME.
UM, I THINK I, SO WE ARE, WE'RE IN AGREEMENT THAT THIS SLOPE YOU LIKE THIS, WE'RE GONNA LET THIS GO FORWARD.
DO WE HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION TODAY IF, IF I MAY, MADAM CHAIR.
UH, SO THIS GOES TO PUBLIC HEARING.
AND SO THE COMMISSION SHOULD, SHOULD RESIST REACHING A CONSENSUS.
AND PLUS, I WOULD ENCOURAGE TALKING TO FELLOW NEIGHBORS AND OPINIONS TOO.
AND IT SEEMED TO BE SOMEWHAT EMOTIONAL TO ME FROM WHAT I FOUND IN PEOPLE.
AND, UH, I'D BE INTERESTED TO HEAR WHAT THE APPLICANT HAS TO SAY FOR A FEW THINGS.
I BET YOU THOUGHT THIS WAS STRAIGHTFORWARD, DIDN'T YOU?
JOHN, WHAT, HOW WIDE IS MANASSAS AVENUE? DO YOU KNOW? I, I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
BECAUSE I MEAN, THAT SEEMS LIKE IT'S PROBABLY MORE THAN 40.
'CAUSE THAT STREET IS A WIDE STREET.
UM, WAS THERE, DID IT USED TO BE THAT STREETS WERE ALWAYS THE 40 OR THE 46 AND FEDERAL? BECAUSE THE OLD STREETS SEEMED TO BE OUR, OUR LOCAL STREETS VARYING WEST 50 AND 1950S,
[00:30:01]
1960S.BECAUSE UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE STREETS WITH A 60 FOOT RIGHT OF WAY, WHICH IS NEVER NEEDED FOR A SUBDIVISION.
THE FEES, CHARGES AND EXPENSES ORDINANCE AMENDMENT.
UH, THIS IS SOMETHING, UH, UH, PERTAINING TO THE FEES APPLICATION 25 0 0 5 1.
UH, THAT, UH, WAS THE RECOMMENDATION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO EVALUATE THE FEES FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING DEPARTMENT.
SO, UH, STAFF HAS TOOK THE TIME TO, UH, GIVE YOU A CFE COMPARISON TABLE.
UH, WE'VE SELECTED FOUR OTHER LOCALITIES WITHIN THE DIRECT VICINITY OF FRONT ROYAL.
UM, WE HAVE THE, ON THE LEFT PART OF THE COLUMN, WE HAVE THE APPLICATION TYPE, UH, WITH THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL CURRENT FEE.
AND, UH, NEXT COLUMN TO THAT RIGHT, IS THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL PROPOSED FEE.
A LITTLE BIT OF AN EXPLANATION ON THAT YOU SHOULD KEEP IN MIND AT THE END OF THE PRESENTATION.
UH, LONG WAY HERE, UM, THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, THESE FEES, UH, SO FOR EXAMPLE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, THE FEE FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION MONTHLY IS $500.
UH, THE BZA IS 3 75 FOR AN APPLICATION.
THE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW IS 250.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU TAKE ONE SPECIAL OR SPECIAL USE PERMIT UNDER THE CURRENT, UH, FEE SCHEDULE, AND YOU ONLY HAVE ONE FOR THAT MONTH, THE FEE THAT WE, UH, CHARGE THE APPLICANT IS $400.
BUT THE PAYMENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS 500 AND DOES NOT, NOT INCLUDE ADVERTISING IN THE LOCAL PAPER, IN THE MEDIA.
SO THAT IS ONE REASON, UH, YOU'LL SEE THESE, UH, THE BREAK EVEN AND, UH, EXPLANATION THAT WHY WE ARE SUGGESTING CHANGES TO OUR FEE SCHEDULE.
UH, SO WE CAN GO THROUGH THESE, IF YOU HAVE ANY, WE CAN GO THROUGH THESE LINE ITEM IF YOU WANT AN EXPLANATION FOR THESE, BECAUSE SOME LOCALITIES DO NOT HAVE THE SAME EXACT PROCESS FOR APPLICATIONS, SO THAT IT KIND OF VARIES WITH THAT.
UH, SO THAT'S WHY YOU'LL SEE SOME NUMBERS THAT ARE, MAY NOT MAKE SENSE 100% BECAUSE, UH, THEY DO NOT ISSUE THE SAME TYPE OF PERMITS THAT WE DO.
SO WE TRIED TO EXPLAIN THAT IN THAT EXPLANATION COLUMN OR WITH THEM.
UM, THAT IS PAGE ONE OF THREE.
UH, IT'S UP TO THE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION IF YOU WANT ME TO GO TO, UH, EXPLAIN EACH ONE OF THESE FROM THE SHORT VERSION, WHAT THEY MEAN.
NO, I THINK WE CAN JUST ASK YOU QUESTIONS OF PARTICULAR ONES THAT, THAT STRIKE OUR EYES.
LIKE FOR INSTANCE, ON PAGE TWO, TELECOMMUNICATIONS TOWER.
UM, SO IF YOU, IF YOU THINK THAT WE ARE, THE PROPOSED FEE IS NOT ENOUGH, THAT'S SOMETHING YOU SHOULD DISCUSS.
THE CURRENT, THE CURRENT FEES AND THE PROPOSED FEES, AND THESE ARE THE OTHER LOCALITIES FEES THAT THEY CHARGE.
AND ON PAGE TWO, UH, LEGISLATIVE APPROVAL, TELE TELECOMMUNICATIONS TOWER STOP.
SO CURRENTLY WE ONLY CHARGE A $400 FEE PLUS THE FEES OF THE CONSULTANT AND LOOK AT WHAT THE OTHER COUNTIES CHARGE.
UH, SO WE'RE PROPOSING A FEE ON THAT ONE FOR $1,500.
BUT THAT ALSO REQUIRES AN OUTSIDE REVIEW AGENCY.
AND THE APPLICANT WOULD BE CHARGED THE FEE FOR THAT WHERE PAGE OR SHOULD IT GO UP, DON'T CHARGE THE APPLICANT? UH, YEAH.
THAT, THAT IS PROBABLY BUILT INTO THEIR FEE.
UH, PAGE COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE, CHARGES $5,800.
CURRENTLY THAT FEE FOR THE THIRD PARTY REVIEW IS $3,000.
THE APPLICANT PAYS IN THOSE COUNTIES.
OUR, OH, THE LATEST ONE WE RECEIVE.
OH, THE THIRD PARTY'S THAT'S APART FROM THIS FEE, IN ADDITION TO THIS FEE ANTENNA OR CHANGE OUT ANTENNAS, WE HAVE TO SEND THAT OUT FOR REVIEW FOR THE THIRD PARTY AND THAT THEY PAY THOUSAND DIRECTLY.
AND YOU'RE ASSUMING THAT THE OTHER COUNTIES COUNTY THAT'S BUILT IN? YES.
THAT WOULD EXPLAIN THAT DISCRETION.
SO BASICALLY FOR OUR, WITH THE PROPOSED FEE, WITH THE CURRENT FEE THAT WE GOT, MOST RECENTLY, THE 3000 AND THE 40, UH, 1500 WOULD BRING THAT FEE UP TO ABOUT $4,500.
IT DEPENDS ON THE APPLICATION AND WHAT THEY'RE DOING TOO.
I HAD A QUESTION ON THE SPECIAL USE PERMITS.
UM, I REALLY, AND, AND THERE'S PART OF ME THAT REALLY LIKES WHAT SHE DIDN'T KNOW COUNTY DOES.
[00:35:01]
WE HAVE A LOT OF SHORT TERM RENTALS IN THE TOWN, AND, UH, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT THERE ARE TIMES WHERE STAFF HAS TO GET INVOLVED WITH THEM, UH, AND TO HAVE SOME SORT OF OTHER BENEFIT TO THE TOWN, UH, ASIDE FROM TOURISM AND EVERYTHING, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT, RIGHT? I DON'T WANT TO PUT THAT DOWN.BUT, YOU KNOW, WOULD WE CONSIDER HAVING AN ANNUAL FEE FOR SOMEONE TO KEEP THEIR SHORT TERM RENTAL PERMITT? THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE COULD TALK ABOUT IN CODE REVISION, RIGHT? WELL, THAT IS THIS, THIS IS, THIS IS, WELL THIS IS THE FEES, THE PURPOSE OF THESE FEES.
BUT ASKING IS TO BREAK EVEN THOUGH, RIGHT? IT'S NOT, TO, NOT TO MAKE A PROFIT.
IS THAT TRUE STATEMENT? UH, AT LEAST THAT SEEMS TO BE THE INFERENCE HERE FROM THE EXPLANATIONS IS WE WE'RE TRYING TO SAY NOT, NOT, UH, NOT MAKE MONEY, BUT ALSO NOT CHARGE A TAXPAYER FOR SOMEBODY ELSE'S ACTION THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO WITH AN ACCOUNT.
IT'S CDO COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY CHARGE FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
SO NOW OUR, UH, SHORT TERM RENTAL IS JUST UNDER A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
IT REQUIRES SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
SO ANY SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS $400 CURRENTLY.
UH, UH, SHADO COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE, BREAKS THAT OUT AT $500.
THEN THEY DO AN ANNUAL INSPECTION.
IF YOU'RE GONNA CONTINUE THAT SHORT TERM RENTAL, UH, THEY CHARGE $200 AND THAT'S ANNUALLY, THEN YOU INSPECT THAT AGAIN.
WHEREAS WITH OURS, IT'S PERMANENT UNLESS THEY GET IT, IT STAYS, UM, RUNS WITH THE PROPERTY.
BUT THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT COULD BE REVOKED IF THEY DO NOT MEET THE CONDITIONS OF THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
BUT BY THE WAY, DOES, DOES THIS FEE, BASED ON WHAT YOU'RE SAYING WITH THE, DOES IT COVER THE, ALL THE EXPENSE ASSOCIATED WITH DOING IT? WELL, SO YOUR SHORT TERM, SO A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, AGAIN, PLANNING COMMISSION.
UH, FOR EXAMPLE, IF ONE SPECIAL USE PERMIT CAME IN FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL, WE CHARGE $400.
RIGHT? THE FEE TO COVER YOUR ONE MEETING IS $500.
WELL, THAT COVER, NO, I, OBVIOUSLY IT DOESN'T RIGHT NOW.
SO WILL 1200 COVER, 'CAUSE IT DOES SOUND ON THE LOW SIDE, YOU KNOW, BASED THAT'LL, THAT'LL, THAT BASICALLY, THAT'LL COVER WHAT WE ANTICIPATE THE ADVERTISING COSTS IN YOUR MEETINGS FOR THE INITIAL, RIGHT.
SO THEN YOU ALSO HAVE, UH, ADVERTISING FOR, UH, TOWN COUNCIL ALSO STAFF TIME FOR PLANNING, COMMISSION WORK SESSION, YOUR REGULAR MEETING TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION AND TOWN COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING AND MAILING OUT ADJACENT PROPERTY.
SO MAILING ADJACENT PROPERTY, I THINK YOU JUST SAID IT DOESN'T, IT WON'T COVER IT.
AND THAT'S, I MEAN, GRANTED WE DON'T DO, IF WE'RE NOT DOING, WE DON'T DO ANY INSPECTION, SO THERE'S NO ASPECT TO IT.
BUT THEN IF THERE'S AN ISSUE DOWN THE LINE, THEN STAFF HAS TO GET INVOLVED AGAIN.
IF SOMEONE BRINGS SOMETHING TO OUR ATTENTION THAT THEY THINK THE, UH, THE APPLICANT IS, UH, NOT MEETING THE CONDITIONS OF THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THEN WE WOULD DO AN INSPECTION.
WE HAVE AN IDEA OF WHAT THE FREQUENCY IS FOR THAT AS FAR AS HOW OFTEN THERE MAY BE PEOPLE WHO, HOW OFTEN STAFF HAS TO GO CHECK THINGS OUT TO SEE IF THEY ARE INDEED NOT MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PERMIT.
UH, I BELIEVE WE RECEIVED COMPLAINTS ON, UH, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, MAYBE, UH, THREE OR FOUR SHORT TERM RENTALS.
UH, NOISE COMPLAINTS, UM, LOUD MUSIC, UM, DISRUPTING THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT HAS, THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP IN THE PAST.
BUT BY ADDING THE TOWN COUNCIL ON TOP AND THE ADVERTISING AND MY UNDERSTANDING, IT'S SOMETHING LIKE $500 JUST FOR THE ADVERTISING.
IT CAN BE, DEPENDING ON THE WORDING, DEPENDING ON NO LESS THAN LIKE 365 AND PLUS PLUS THE, THE OTHER PARTS GO ON.
SO, SO IT LOOKS LIKE THAT'S AT LEAST $500 SHY IF WE'RE GONNA USE A FIXED NUMBER.
UH, SO YEAH, SO WARREN COUNTY CURRENTLY, UH, THEY RAISED THEIR FEES TO 1750 ON THEM.
SO THAT, THAT BASICALLY WOULD PUT IT IN LINE WITH WARREN COUNTY IF WE WENT THERE, BUT COULD DO THE FORMULA, LIKE YOU SAID, BUT YOU'RE NOT DOING THE INSPECTION.
SO WE CAN'T MODEL THAT EXACTLY FOR THE, UM, SHENANDOAH COUNTY.
BUT UNLESS YOU WOULD, UH, TOWN COUNCIL, YOU WOULD HAVE TO AMEND THE CODE ON SHORT TERM QUICKLY.
ANOTHER ISSUE, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE CLOSER TO 1750 PERSONALLY, UM, I MAY HAVE MISSED SOME OF THE DISC, IF I MAY.
UH, SHENANDOAH COUNTY, UH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
[00:40:01]
A ANNUAL FEE.WELL, THEY, THAT, THAT MEANS THERE MUST BE A CONDITION IN THE SUVS MM-HMM
BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CONDITION, THERE'S NO ANNUAL INSPECTION, THERE'S ENFORCEMENT, BUT THE, THERE'S, THERE'S NO ANNUAL INSPECTION UNLESS THE ISSUED SUP CONTAINS THAT CONDITION.
UH, WOULD, WOULD IT BE WRITTEN, COULD THE CODE BE WRITTEN SO THAT IT WAS PART OF THE CODE? THERE WOULD BE AN
I THINK THAT HAS TO BE A CONDITION THAT'S CASE BY CASE IT'S ADDED.
I COULD BE WRONG ON THAT, BUT, UH, WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO HERE IS MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN ENFORCEMENT AND A CONDITION THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PLACED ON A SPECIAL USE PERMIT CALLING FOR ANNUAL REINSPECTION.
DOES THAT SOUND ABOUT RIGHT, JOHN? YES.
I MEAN, I THINK, IF YOU REMEMBER RIGHT, THE PLANNING COMMISSION DID PUT THAT CONDITION ONE, UH, A COUPLE, UH, SHORT TERM RENTALS PREVIOUSLY, UH, FOR, UH, REVIEW IN ONE YEAR.
UH, BUT, UH, TOWN COUNCIL, UH, DID NOT PLACE THAT CONDITION ON IT.
ALSO, IF I COULD MENTION, THESE ARE COUNTIES, AND I KNOW THE COUNTY, THEY GO OUT AND DO THE ANNUAL INSPECTIONS FOR LIKE THE FIRE CODE SAFETY AND THINGS LIKE THAT, WHERE WE'RE NOT DOING THOSE MM-HMM
SO THAT MIGHT BE WHY THEY HAVE THOSE.
'CAUSE THEY, THEY'RE COUNTY, THEY ENFORCE THE BUILDING CODE.
BUT ANYWAY, AT, AT A MINIMUM, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE HIGHER.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU, IF YOU, IF YOU WANNA CHANGE THE FEES ON THIS THING, UH, AT THE WORK SESSION IS THE PLACE TO DO IT.
THAT, THAT'S THE PUBLIC HEARING.
ONE THING I WANT US TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT THE HIGHER THE FEE BECOMES, THE LESS LOCAL PEOPLE WHO WANNA RENT OUT THEIR OWN HOME WOULD BE ABLE TO APPLY FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS OR LESS EASY IT WOULD BE FOR THEM.
UH, BUT IT WOULD BE A DROP IN THE BUCKET FOR, YOU KNOW, A, AN UH, FOREIGN LLC AND FOR, I MEAN, OUTSIDE OF OUR LOCAL SPECIFIC LOCALITY.
UM, SO WHILE, YOU KNOW, NUMBERS ON A PAGE, IT'S EASY, JUST SORT OF RAKE EM UP THE TIDE AS WE WANT.
UH, THERE'S, THERE'S THE OTHER ASPECTS.
DO WE HAVE ANY DATA ABOUT HOW MANY OF THE SHORT TERM RENTALS ARE ACTUALLY OWNED BY LOCAL PEOPLE WHO
WE JUST TAKE THE APPLICATIONS AS PRESENTED.
AND, AND, AND SO I, I REALIZE THERE'S NO TRACKING, BUT AS I'VE SEEN THEM COME THROUGH, MOST OF THE NAMES ARE NOT LOCAL.
AND THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE WHO HAVE COME AND SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M BUYING IT NOW, BUT I HOPE TO RETIRE HERE.
BUT AN AWFUL LOT OF THEM ARE NOT.
IT'S JUST JUSTIFYING TO OTHER PEOPLE SAYING THAT THEY'RE SUBSIDIZING THIS APPLICATION.
THE REST OF THE TOWN IS SUBSIDIZING THE APPLICATION.
SO THEY MAKE THAT, THAT THAT'S THE OTHER.
IF, IF, IF IT IS JUST, IT WAS JUST SOME GRANNY SMITH, YOU KNOW, DOING THE ONE ONE OFF THING.
AND ANOTHER $500, IT COULD BE A POTENTIALLY BIG DEAL.
IF YOU LOOK ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN TOO, THEY OWN THE PROPERTY.
SO THEY'RE PAYING PROPERTY TAXES.
SO YOU COULD SAY THEY'RE STILL PAYING THEIR FAIR SHARE PLUS INCREASING, I MEAN, JUNK FROM 400 TO A THOUSAND IS PRETTY BIG AT JOINED 1750.
THAT'S FOUR TIMES WHAT IT IS NOW.
YEAH, I THINK INITIALLY THAT'S A, THAT'S A VERY LARGE JUMP FOR AN APPLICATION FEE.
SO THIS IS WINDAGE AND ELEVATION.
SO WE'RE, BY BEING PURIST AND SAYING THAT WE ARE GONNA COVER ALL THE, ALL THE EXPENSES OF THE APPLICANT, UM, PAYING FOR ALL THE EXPENSES AS OPPOSED TO PASSING IT ON WITHIN THE TOWN, THEN THAT BECOMES, YOU KNOW, UH, BACK AND FORTH.
AND THEN THERE'S THE, THE BASIC PRINCIPLE OF ECONOMICS, WHICH IS IF YOU WANT LESS OF SOMETHING TAX IT MORE
SO WE DO HEAR A LOT FROM LOCALS THAT THEY WISH THAT THERE WERE LESS OR FEWER RATHER, UH, AIRBNBS AND WHATNOT.
UM, AND THAT'S, YEAH, I, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, I MEAN, I KNOW THE APPLICATION RATE HAS GONE DOWN RECENTLY FROM WHAT IT WAS INITIALLY, BUT COULD THAT BE A SEASONAL DROP AND COULD IT PICK UP AGAIN? I, IF I RECALL FROM THE, UH, THE 2024 YEAR REPORT, IT WAS DOWN YEAR OVER YEAR.
I REMEMBER THAT'S WHAT I SEEM TO RECALL AS WELL.
IT MIGHT BE IN THE ANNUAL REPORT THAT'S IN YOUR PACKET.
I'M NOT SURE IF I HAVE THAT BROKEN DOWN.
THERE WAS 1 20 22, 13, 20 23 5 AND 20 24 5.
DO YOU LIKE THIS COULD ONLY MEET 12
[00:45:01]
TIMES A YEAR.IT DOES FEEL LIKE MORE, YOU'RE RIGHT.
SO I TALKED AROUND, WE THEN WE THINK WE SHOULD INCREASE IT OR LEAVE AT THE SCENE OR I THINK IT NEEDS TO STAY WHAT THE PROPOSED IS.
AND I'VE LOOKED AT ALL OF 'EM.
I THINK EVERYTHING IS PRETTY REASONABLE BASED ON THE JUSTIFICATION PROVIDED.
DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER ONES THAT YOU, WERE YOU RED FLAGGED OR YOU THOUGHT THE, THE SKETCH HAS ON HERE? SKETCH PLAN? UM, IT RECALL IT, IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING TO THE OTHER COUNTIES.
OUR CODE RE UH, DOES OFFER A SKETCH PLAN REVIEW.
UH, SO THAT'S BASICALLY, THAT'S AN APPLICANT COULD COME IN WITH A PROPOSED IDEA, UH, NOT ACTUALLY SUBMITTING FOR, UH, AN APPLICATION PER SE, TO BUILD, UH, SO THEY'RE DOING A SKETCH PLAN.
UH, WE WOULD REVIEW IT TO SEE IF IT DOES MEET, IF IT COULD WORK MORE LIKE AN EXCEPTIONAL PLAN.
UM, SO IT DOES TAKE TIME TO REVIEW THAT.
IF THE APPLICANT WANTS TO DO A, UH, SKETCH PLAN OR, OR A CONCEPT PLAN.
DO YOU THINK THIS WOULD WORK? JUST A PRELIMINARY CONCEPT OF SOMETHING? WE WOULD REVIEW THAT FOR THEM, UH, BASED ON LOT SIZES AND, UH, SETBACKS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
INSTEAD OF, INSTEAD OF A FORMAL SUBMISSION OF LIKE A PRELIMINARY PLAN.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO SUBMIT THAT.
THEY CAN GO DIRECTLY TO A PRELIMINARY PLAN, BUT WE DO OFFER THAT TO THEM FOR A SKETCH PLAN.
UM, I, I DO THE MAJOR SITE DEVELOPMENT.
I DO LIKE THE CHANGE YOU MADE THERE.
'CAUSE YOU, YOU, YOU POINTED OUT YOU CAN GET 5, 6, 7 REVISIONS AND GOING BACK AND FORTH AND SO YOU, YOU ACCOUNTED FOR THAT.
BUT, UH, AS FAR AS A MINOR SITE, UM, PLAN, SOMETHING THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S THREE OHS HOUSE OR THREE OHS DWELLINGS MINOR SITE PLAN IS WHAT, WHAT IT, YEAH, IT KIND OF DEPENDS IF THERE, UM, EXTENDING A OR BUILDING A NEW ROAD OR EXTENDING, UH, WATER AND SEWER LINES ALSO.
SO OUR CODE KIND OF DIFFERENTIATES BETWEEN THOSE.
DON'T, DON'T FEEL THAT THAT, UM, DOESN'T ALSO GO, IT SEEMS LIKE MINOR WOULD BE IN MANY CASES, UM, PEOPLE LESS EXPERIENCED WHO WOULD BE LEANING ON YOU A LOT MORE TURNING IN STUFF THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO.
QUITE, NO, THE MINOR SITE PLAN IS JUST BASED ON THE NUMBER OF LOTS AND IF, IF YOU'RE EXTENDING THE STREET OR IT'S BUILT ON AN EXISTING STREET WITH WATER AND SEWER AVAILABLE.
SO IT JUST A LOT LESS WORK IS WHAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE SAYING? UH, AS FAR AS WE, THE DEVELOPER HAS TO DO A LOT LESS, YOU KNOW, THE STREET'S ALREADY IN PLACE.
THE WATER AND SEWER IS ALREADY THERE.
WELL, FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW, HAVING TO REVIEW IT, DO WE STILL BRING IT BACK TO YOU FIVE AND SIX TIMES? UH, YOU DO HAVE A CHECKLIST WITH THAT.
NOW WHETHER THEY ADHERE TO THE CHECKLIST IS PROVIDED, UM, THAT'S AN ANOTHER TOPIC, PROBABLY
SINCE WE COULD HAVE MAJOR SITE DEVELOPMENT PLAN, YOU KNOW, THOSE, UH, I'VE NEVER SEEN ONE COME ACROSS MY DESK IN YEARS AGO IN PLAN REVIEW THAT GOT REVIEWED AND APPROVED ON THE FIRST SUBMITTAL.
SO WITH THAT ONE ACTUALLY, SO I DO ABSOLUTELY UNDERSTAND HOW THIS STRUCTURE CAME ABOUT.
ON THE OTHER HAND, IF SOMEONE WERE TO DO A DEVELOPMENT PLAN COMPARING US TO FAKI OR TO SHENANDOAH, THEY COULD HAVE A $500 SUBMISSION SIX TIMES AND STILL BE LESS THAN WHAT THE INITIAL SUB, WHAT THE SUBMISSION WOULD COST OVER FOR THEM.
SO, YOU KNOW, AND SIMILARLY WITH WARREN COUNTY, DEPENDING ON HOW LARGE THE PARCEL IS, UM, IS THERE ANY CONCERN FROM STAFF? 'CAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, THE BIG THING IT EFFECT IS ON YOU GUYS OF 500 NOT BEING ENOUGH PER SUBMISSION AFTER THE SECOND.
WELL, USUALLY WITH THESE MINOR SITE PLANS, UH, LIKE I SAID, THE STREETS ARE ALREADY IN, SO WE'RE NOT SENDING THOSE NO MAJOR.
SO YOU, YOU THINK YOU'RE ASKING IF YOU THINK THE 500 IS ACTUALLY ENOUGH TO GO TOWARDS THE
THE THIRD AND, AND FURTHER YOU'RE SAYING THE HOPE IS TO ENCOURAGE APPLICANTS TO NOT USE STAFF FOR SITE DESIGN.
UH, GIVEN THAT IF THEY SUBMITTED, UH, IF THEY HAD, YOU KNOW, FIVE SUBMISSIONS, LET'S SAY WITH A ROUND OF COMMENTS EACH TIME, THAT WOULD STILL END UP BEING LESS THAN WHAT IT WOULD HAVE COST THEM TO DO THE SAME THING OVER IN SHENANDOAH
[00:50:01]
OR IN FAKI OR POTENTIALLY IN WARREN.SO WITH THAT, DO WE THINK 500 IS ENOUGH OR THE THIRD SUBMISSION? THE THIRD AND FURTHER? UM, BE HONEST, NO, DON'T BE SHY.
WE SEND THE COUNTY FOR EROSION AND SEDIMENT CONTROL AND THE DEQ TO DO THE STORM WATER.
SO THESE ARE A LITTLE PROBABLY ELEVATED AND HERE BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING, UM, MORE PHASES OF THE DEVELOPMENT REVIEW IN HOUSE MM-HMM
BUT IF WE'RE SENDING TO THE COUNTY, ARE WE PAYING ANYTHING TO THE COUNTY TO DO, WE HAVE AN MOU MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY DO REVIEW SITE PLANS FOR US IN EXCHANGE FOR, UH, PART OF THE MOU.
SO IT'S NOT A FEE IS NOT IN INCURRED.
DOES, DOES 500 COVER THE COST OF YOUR WORK WHEN THERE IS A THIRD SUFFICIENT OR SEVEN? WELL, I, I GUESS IT'S ALSO ASSUMING YOU'RE NOT, IT'S NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT.
YOU'RE, IF THEY'RE COMING BACK FOR MULTIPLE REVIEWS, THEY'RE NOT TEARING THE WHOLE THING UP AND STARTING OVER THERE.
THERE'S CORRECTIONS IN PLACES YOU GO.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE AVERAGE ROUNDS ARE FOR THOSE? UM, WE'RE APPROACHING THREE OR FOUR REVIEWS FOR FOUR FOR THOSE AFTER THE INITIAL SUBMISSION.
BUT THAT'S WITH ONE FLAT FEE OF SEVEN 50 FOR EXAMPLE.
FOUR PLAN REVIEWS FOR SEVEN 50.
BECAUSE ANYONE WHO'S TRYING TO DEVELOPMENT PLANNING DO IT NOW YOU DO IT POORLY SO JOHN CAN FIX IT.
I JUST WANTED TO CONFIRM THAT THAT STAFF BELIEVES THAT THAT IS SUFFICIENT FOR THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT WE, WE DID THAT BECAUSE IT IS ONE HALF OF THE INITIAL REVIEW MM-HMM
SO WE WOULD HOPE THAT IT WOULD, UM, THAT THAT SHOULD GET THE ATTENTION OF THE PERSON TO QUIT JUST THROWING
AND I'VE SEEN OTHER LOCALITIES WHERE I WORKED AT IN THE PAST ACTUALLY, UH, THIS NUMBER, YOU WOULD HAVE ONE INITIAL SUBMISSION.
THE SECOND SUBMISSION WAS THIS TIMES ONE AND A HALF.
SO THE SECOND SUBMISSION WOULD BE 1500.
THE THIRD SUBMISSION WOULD BE ONE AND A HALF TIMES THE 1500.
SO I'VE SEEN SOME LOCALITIES DO THAT.
THAT IS ACTUALLY SPEAK SOMETHING TO BE SAID.
CAN WE, CAN WE DO THAT WITHOUT A CODE CHANGE? ALRIGHT.
SO HERE'S, BUT AGAIN, WE'RE NOT REVIEWING EROSION AND SEDIMENT CONTROL AND WE'RE NOT REVIEWING STORM WATER.
SO THOSE ARE USUALLY THE TWO ITEMS THAT TAKE AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF REVIEW TIME.
WELL THAT'S WHY, THAT'S WHY WE'RE NOT PROPOSING $5,000 FOR A SUBMISSION.
BUT THE IDEA OF INCENTIVIZING THE APPLICANT TO DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME, THAT COULD BE A FINANCIAL INCENTIVE IF THERE WAS A SLIGHTLY HIGHER PENALTY THE SECOND TIME, RATHER THAN IT BEING THE IDEA OF OF SAYING YOU'RE GONNA HAVE, YOU HAVE TO GET IT PERFECT ON THE FIRST TIME.
I CAN UNDERSTAND LIKE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A BIT OF A GRACE I THINK GIVEN THERE'S A BIT OF A GRACE.
BUT BY THE THIRD TIME YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, FOR EXAMPLE, VDOT WOULD REVIEW THE PLANS.
WE WOULD SEND LIKE THIS MARSHALL WAS, GLEN VDOT WOULD REVIEW THE ROAD PLANS.
WARREN COUNTY WOULD REVIEW THE EROSION AND SEDIMENT CONTROL.
VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY WOULD REVIEW THE STORM WATER.
AND WE WOULD DO THE ZONING ALONG WITH PUBLIC WORKS AND ENERGY SERVICES FOR THE ZONING PART.
PUBLIC WORKS ON THE STREET AND ENERGY SERVICES FOR THE NEEDED RIGHT.
OF WAYS AND EASEMENTS CONNECT ELECTRICITY.
SO YOU HAVE MULTIPLE AGENCIES REVIEWING THESE.
SO TO THINK THAT THE APPLICANT'S GONNA SUBMIT ONE TIME AND HAVE EVERYTHING IN ALIGNMENT IS, IS FAR REACHING.
WELL IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE APPLICANT'S FAULT IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
IF THEY HAVE TO RESUBMIT OTHER, OTHER GREASE MOVING PIECES.
YEAH, I GUESS BY DEFINITION IT'S THERE.
I I'VE NEVER SEEN AN APPLICATION COME ACROSS THAT IT HAD ZERO COMMENTS.
UM, OUR, OUR FRIENDS OVER WITH THE, WITH THE, UH, HILLS IN THE BACKYARD THAT THEY DIDN'T WANNA PUT IN, THAT WE TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME WE WERE HERE THAT DIDN'T WANNA PUT IN THE, UH, THAT WE WERE SAYING THEY NEEDED RETAINING WALL.
[00:55:01]
RETAINING WALL.WAS THAT A SPECIAL EXCEPTION? WHAT WAS THAT? NO, THAT, THAT'S, UH, THEY'RE ASKING FOR A REVISION OF A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PLAN.
SO WHICH CATEGORY WOULD THAT FIT IN? UH, WE CHARGED THAT TO, UH, BASED ON A LOT FOR MAJOR, UH, SITE DEVELOPMENT.
SO I THINK THAT WAS UH, UH, PROBABLY A, A $750 FEE, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY FOR THAT REVISION.
'CAUSE IT'S MAJOR SITE DEVELOPMENT.
SO THAT WAS A MAJOR SITE DEVELOPMENT.
FOUR, THREE HOMES DID, UH, THAT WAS SEVEN 50 FOR ALL, ALL OF THEM.
HOW DOES THAT SEEM TO, JUST IN YOUR BALLPARK SENSE, HOW DOES THAT SQUARE WITH THE AMOUNT OF TIME THAT YOU HAD TO SPEND ON THAT AND THE AMOUNT OF TIME WE HAD TO SPEND ON THAT AND UNTIL, WELL, I MEAN, WE HAVE PLAYED FAT TO FLAT FEES.
IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH TIME WE SPEND.
THAT MIGHT BE WHERE WE, WE CAN INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE TO DO THINGS RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.
IF THEY HAVE TO COME BACK FOR A, A SAY, MAJOR DEVELOPMENT AMENDMENT THAT WELL THAT'S, THAT'S, UH, THAT, THAT REVISION IS AFTER IT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED.
SO THAT ONE THERE, ONE, YOU GOT ONE HAPPY CREEK KNOWS IS IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
SO THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A REVISION ON TOP OF THIS.
SO THAT'S A, IT'S A NEW, A NEW ACTION SO TO SPEAK.
DO WE NEED A CATEGORY FOR THINGS LIKE THAT? THAT WOULD FALL UNDER ONE? EITHER IT'S A MAJOR OR MINOR REVISION DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF LOTS.
UM, SO THAT WOULD BE MAJOR OR MINOR REVISION.
SO YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T HAVE A REVISION FEE FOR MINOR SITE CLAIMS. IS THAT 'CAUSE THEY DON'T NEED REVISIONS OR IS THAT BECAUSE IT, IT WOULD DEPENDS AFTER IT'S APPROVED WHAT THEY'RE WANTING TO DO.
SHOULD WE HAVE A, A
AFTER IT IS ALREADY BEEN APPROVED, IT WOULD BE ANOTHER SUBMISSION.
IS THERE ANY CHANGES TO THAT? IT WENT ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE CYCLE AND EVERYTHING'S APPROVED.
AND THEY SAID, OH, CHANGE THEIR MIND.
THEN THEY NEED GET TO START OVER.
1, 1, 1 MORE IF I CAN THIS ORDER.
THE P-O-D-I-I NOTICED THAT WE'RE, AGAIN, WE'RE THE ONLY ONES CHARGING FOR THAT.
UH, NOW SOME OF THESE ARE NOT, UH, IS THAT YOU BURIED IN OTHER COUNTIES? SOMEWHERE ELSE? YEAH, SOMEWHERE ELSE.
SO EXAMPLE, UH, LET'S SEE, UH, YOU KNOW, SOLICITOR AND ITINERANT MERCHANT COMES TO OUR DEPARTMENT TO GET A BUSINESS LICENSE TO OPERATE THAT.
SO THOSE, WE ONLY CHARGE $20, BUT FOR THAT, THAT HAS TO BE SENT FOR BACKGROUND CHECK TO VIRGINIA, UH, STATE POLICE TO A BACK TO A BACKGROUND CHECK ON THE APPLICANTS.
SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE ASKING FOR AN INCREASE IN THE FEES HERE.
UH, THAT IS PROBABLY HANDLED THROUGH MAYBE A FINANCE DEPARTMENT AND OTHER LOCALITIES AND THEY DON'T COME TO US, UH, THROUGH THE PLANNING AND ZONING.
UH, WE DO DO BUSINESS LICENSES, UH, HERE.
SO HERE WE DON'T CURRENTLY CHARGE FOR BUSINESS LICENSE REVIEW.
SO WHEN SOMEONE'S, SO THEY COME TO US AND SUBMIT OUR CODE IS WRITTEN WHERE WE REVIEW THE BUSINESS LICENSE APPLICATION.
SO A TYPICAL BUSINESS LICENSE APPLICATION WOULD BE SOMEONE WOULD APPLY FOR, UH, A RESTAURANT TO OPERATE A BUSINESS LICENSE.
ONE, WE WOULD HAVE TO VERIFY THAT A RESTAURANT IS PERMITTED IN THAT DISTRICT TWO AFTER IT IS IT COULD BE PUT IN THAT DISTRICT.
THEN WE'D HAVE TO TAKE THE CONFIGURATION OF THE NUMBER OF SEATS IN THE RESTAURANT, DETERMINE THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES ARE REQUIRED.
SOME BUSINESSES ARE BASED ON NUMBER OF SEATS.
SOME BUSINESSES ARE BASED ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE USE OF THE BUILDING.
SO WE HAVE TO CALCULATE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE BUILDING THAT THEY'RE USING AND DETERMINE HOW MANY PARKING SPACES ARE REQUIRED.
CURRENTLY WE DO NOT CHARGE FOR THIS.
WE WOULD DO THIS, THIS CHARGE IS $50 FOR STAFF REVIEW.
AND ONCE THAT'S APPROVED, THEY TAKE THAT APPLICATION TO THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT TO GET THE ACTUAL BUSINESS LICENSE.
AND THEN THAT IS BASED AND THEIR BUSINESS LICENSE FEE IS BASED ON THE USE FROM THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT.
SO THAT IS THE ONES WE DON'T CURRENTLY CHARGE FOR THAT WE DO SPEND, UH, TIME REVIEWING THOSE.
[01:00:02]
AND, UH, IF YOU LOOK BACK ON, UH, OUR ANNUAL REPORT, UH, MS. POTTER, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY BUSINESS LICENSE WE ISSUED LAST YEAR? IS THAT IN YOUR, UH, HUNDRED YEAR, UH, 129 BUSINESS LI UH, BUSINESS LICENSE IN 2024.148 IN TWENTY TWENTY THREE, A HUNDRED FIFTY FIVE IN 2022.
SO, UH, THE HIGH MARK IS 2021.
WHEN WE DID 172 BUSINESS LICENSE STAFF REVIEWS ALL THAT FOR EACH LICENSE.
AND WE DID NOT CHARGE A FEE FOR THAT.
SHOULD YOU BE CHARGING MORE THAN 50 GOING FORWARD? WELL, OUR FEE IS ZERO NOW.
UM, WE USED TO CHARGE 10 AND THEN THEY TOOK THAT AWAY TO MADE IT ZERO.
SO YOU HAD TO MAKE THESE BUSINESSES, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAD TO ONE, EVERYBODY KNOWS PARKING IS AN ISSUE.
SO YOU HAD TO REVIEW THE PARKING STANDARDS BASED ON THE USE OF THE BUSINESS, IF YOU REMEMBER RIGHT.
UH, THE ONE THAT CAME, UH, SOMEONE ASKED FOR A SPECIAL DECEPTION ON A BUSINESS BEFORE THE PLANNING COMMISSION DIDN'T HAVE THE REQUIRED PARKING.
WE REVIEW ALL THAT TO DETERMINE HOW MANY IS REQUIRED WITH THE CODE IF THEY'RE DEFICIENT OR THEY HAVE THE AMOUNT, UH, NEEDED.
SO, EXAMPLE, WHEN, LIKE I SAID, 20 20, 21 IS A HIGH MARK, 172, WE DID NOT CHARGE A, A FEE FOR THOSE WE'RE AVERAGING LOOKS LIKE UP AND DOWN ABOUT 150 BUSINESS LICENSES A YEAR.
SET TIME TO REVIEW ALL THOSE, TAKE THE APPLICATIONS IN, PUT 'EM IN THE PERMIT SYSTEM, REVIEW THOSE, EMAIL THE APPLICATION BACK OUT, OR APPROVAL FOR THEM TO GET THEIR BUSINESS LICENSE.
SO A CHANGE OF USE OF A BUILDING TO START A NEW KIND OF BUSINESS.
AND THAT'S A BUSINESS LICENSE? UH, WELL, NO, THAT'S DIFFERENT.
WE DO CHARGE FOR A CHANGE OF USE WHERE, SO WHERE IS THAT? THAT'S UNDER A MAJOR, UH, ZONING PERMIT.
THAT WOULD BE A HUNDRED DOLLARS WHEN THEY CHANGE THE USE.
WHERE IS THAT ON THIS CHART? UM, WELL, IT'S GOTTA BE A 300 IF IT, IT FALLS UNDER A MAJOR ZONING PERMIT.
THAT'S WHAT WE USUALLY DO THAT ON CHANGE.
IS THAT LIKE ZONING DETERMINATION? I KNOW, UH, THE BOTTOM OF THE PRESS PAGE.
WE ALSO, YEAH, YOU TALKED TO THE ZONING DETERMINATION.
THAT IS WHERE, UH, WE GET THOSE WEEKLY, UH, I WOULDN'T WANNA SAY DAILY, BUT WEEKLY, UH, SOMEONE COMES INTO THE OFFICE OR THEY CALL US ON THE PHONE WANTING TO KNOW IF THEY COULD BUILD ON THE LOT OR, UH, WHAT, WHAT IS IT ZONED FOR? CAN YOU CHECK THE SETBACKS FOR ME? RIGHT.
UH, SO WE HAVE TO RESEARCH THE ZONING OF IT, SETBACKS, WHAT'S ALLOWED, WHAT'S PERMITTED BY RIGHT.
WHAT'S REQUIRED BY A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
THEN WE, UH, AT THIS POINT WE CHARGE ZERO.
SO WE WOULD DO A ZONING DETERMINATION LETTER WHERE WE HAVE SOMETHING WRITTEN WRITTEN, OKAY.
THAT SAYS, UH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THIS, WE COULD, WE COULD SEE, FORESEE THIS BEING, UH, ALLOWED OR WE WOULD SAY, BASED ON THE INFORMATION THAT YOU SUPPLIED TO US, WE DETERMINE THAT YOUR PROPOSED IS NOT ALLOWED.
THE OTHER ONE IS A FINAL COMPLIANCE INSPECTION.
UH, BASICALLY THOSE ARE FOR LIKE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.
UH, ONCE THEY GET A ZONING APPROVAL, BUILD A HOME, UH, THE COUNTY SENDS THAT BACK TO US.
THEY'RE READY TO MOVE IN, WE GO OUT AND MAKE SURE THEY'RE IN FINAL COMPLIANCE WITH THE ZONING PERMIT.
UH, THAT WOULD BE, UH, THE 9 1 1 NUMBER IS POSTED.
THEY HAVE TO MEET THE, UH, PRE COVERAGE PLANTING AREAS OF TOWN CODE, THE NUMBER OF TREES THAT ARE REQUIRED TO BE PLANTED THERE.
SO WE DO HAVE TO GO OUT, STAFF GOES OUT, COUNTS THE NUMBER OF TREES, MAKE SURE THE RIGHT, THE RIGHT SPECIES AND VARIETY, THE RIGHT SIZES, UH, STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO WE DO DO AN INSPECTION ON THAT BEFORE WE ISSUE FINAL COMPLIANCE.
IF SOMEBODY JUST A ZONING PERMIT MINOR WOULD BE, IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO ADD A PORCH TO THEIR HOUSE, UH, YES.
THOSE ARE TYPICALLY FOR RESIDENTIAL.
THE OTHER COUNTIES CHARGE DIFFERENT BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL.
ACCESSORY USES, DECKS, UH, PORCHES, ADDITIONS, UH, FENCES, SWIMMING POOLS, UH, THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
UH, THAT'S THE, THAT'S A MINOR, UH, ZONING PERMIT.
WE CHECK THE SETBACKS ON THAT.
ACCESSORY STRUCTURES TYPICALLY FIVE FOOT AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY LINE REAR AND SIDE SETBACKS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
[01:05:01]
OKAY.OTHER QUESTIONS? ANYBODY ELSE? JUST COLLECTIVELY HAVE, WE KIND OF COME TO THE POINT WHERE THIS IS A CO A COMBINATION OF, UM, INCREASING RATES TO GO ALONG WITH TO COVER, COVER THE COST.
BUT IN SOME CASES WE ACKNOWLEDGE IT MAY NOT COVER THE COST, BUT THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF COMPASSION THAT GOES ALONG WITH IT.
WHO'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE INCURRING THE COST? AND THAT, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I THINK WE'RE HEADED.
WE BASICALLY, WE'RE, WE'RE SAYING NO CHANGE.
I THINK EVERYTHING IN HERE LOOKS GOOD.
THAT YEAH, THERE HAVE BEEN, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TIME Y'ALL HAVE SPENT PUTTING THIS TOGETHER ALREADY, I'M SURE.
THE AMOUNT OF DISCUSSION WE HAD PROBABLY DOESN'T WARRANT THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT YOU PUT INTO THIS OR DOESN'T, DOESN'T GLORIFY THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT YOU GUYS HAVE PUT INTO THIS.
WELL, YOU'RE ASKING THAT WE'VE ADVERTISED TO GO TO THE, UH, PUBLIC HEARING THAT IN TWO WEEKS.
I MEAN, THERE'S NOTHING STATUTORILY THAT WOULD PREVENT US FROM CHANGING THIS TWO OR THREE YEARS DOWN THE ROAD.
WE DO IT EVERY YEAR IF WE WANT TO
I THINK IT'S, IT TAKES TOWN COUNCIL'S APPROVAL, SO THEY RIGHT, RIGHT.
SO AS FAR AS NO CHANGES IN ORDER TO GO TO, AT THIS POINT TO GO TO PUBLIC HEARING IS WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY, WE'RE ACTUALLY SAYING HERE THAT I THINK THEY WERE NO CHANGES.
BUT WE DID, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN LOOK THROUGH YOUR THING IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, WE DID GIVE AN EXPLANATION OF ALL THOSE WHY, WHAT, WHAT WAS THE, UH, RATIONALE BEHIND THOSE.
SO THOSE ARE INCLUDED IN THERE.
AND AGAIN, THE FEES THAT, UH, THE DIFFERENT, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS AT THE BAR BOARD OF ARCHITE REVIEW DOES.
SO THOSE ARE TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION.
HERITAGE HALL, WHAT HAVE WE GOT WITH HERITAGE HALL? ARE YOU READY TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT TOPIC? YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY.
THAT'S A REQUEST FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT SUBMITTED BY HERITAGE HALL.
UH, THE 13TH, LLC FOR EXPANSION AND EXISTING SKILLED NURSING FACILITY WITH A NEW ADDITION BUILDING ADDITION, UH, FOR 20 BEDS ASSOCIATED IN FACILITIES, ASSOCIATED FACILITIES AT 400 WEST ROSEBURG ROAD THAT IS ZONED R TWO.
UH, SO UNDER THE R TWO, UH, THIS IS AN INTERESTING, UH, APPLICATION HERE.
UH, SO IN THE R TWO, A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS REQUIRED FOR NURSING HOMES.
SO UNDER COMMERCIAL IN THE R TWO, NURSING HOMES ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
AND THAT HAS BEEN THAT WAY FOR SOME TIME.
UH, SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS, UH, DON'T KNOW THE BACKGROUND, UH, PER SE, HOW IT HAPPENED, BUT IT DID HAPPEN.
UH, SO TOWN COUNCIL IN, UM, SEPTEMBER OF 1985 APPROVED A SITE PLAN THAT WOULD BE A MAJOR SITE PLAN FOR HERITAGE HALL IN, UH, SEPTEMBER OF 1985.
SO THEY APPROVED THE SITE PLAN IN NOVEMBER OF 8, 19 85.
IT WENT THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND TO TOWN COUNSEL, AND THEY APPROVED IT.
UH, THE APPLICANT, UH, SUBMITTED A BUILDING PERMIT IN DECEMBER OF 85 AND GOT A ZONING PERMIT FOR THAT IN JANUARY OF 86.
UH, SO THEY APPROVED THE BUILDING PERMIT, THE ZONING PERMIT, AND, UH, APPROVED THE SITE PLAN, BUT DID NOT SUBMIT OR APPROVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN 1986.
SO IT WOULD BE SIMILAR LIKE THE, THE REISER ROAD APARTMENTS THAT YOU ALL TOOK UP RECENTLY BEHIND ROYAL KING.
THE FIRST STEP IS FIRST TO GET THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT APPROVED SO YOU COULD BUILD THE BUILDING.
SO THIS EXTENSION BROUGHT THIS ERROR UP, IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YES.
THIS EXTENSION, THEY, UH, GOT THE SITE PLAN APPROVED, THE BUILDING PERMIT APPROVED AND THE ZONING PERMIT APPROVED.
UH, BUT NO ONE REQUIRED THEM TO GET A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, EVEN THOUGH TOWN CODE REQUIRED THAT, OOPS.
SO NOW THEY WANNA DO AN EXPANSION TO THE BUILDING.
WELL, TOWN CODE SAYS, SO NOW IT'S A NON-CONFORMING USE.
YOU HAVE A USE THERE THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE SITE PLAN, THE ZONING AND THE BUILDING PERMIT.
NOW THEY'RE TRYING, THEY WANTING TO EXPAND THAT BUILDING.
SO YOU HAVE A NON-CONFORMING USE.
SO TOWN CODE SAYS, EXCEPT BY APPROVAL OF SPECIAL USE
[01:10:01]
PERMIT, THE TOWN COUNCIL, A NON-CONFORMING USE BUILDING OR STRUCTURE SHALL NOT BE ENLARGED OR INCREASED OR EXTENDED TO OCCUPY A GREATER AREA OF LAND.SO WITHOUT A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THEY CANNOT EXPAND THE BUILDING.
BUT, UH, BUT NOW IT, THEY CANNOT EXPAND THAT.
SO NOW THEY NEED TO RECTIFY THIS TO DO THE EXPANSION.
WE WOULD DO A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THEM, OR THEY PUT IN AN APPLICATION TO DO THE EXPANSION TO BRING THIS IN.
CONFORMANCE A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY ABOUT THAT.
IF YOU, UH, IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT THERE ON WEST STRASSBURG ROAD, THIS IS THE, UH, ALLEY BALLOU SUBDIVISION THAT YOU RECENTLY APPROVED.
IF YOU GET, UH, FOUR OFF FOREST HILL DRIVE, UH, THERE'S THE AERIAL OF THAT FOR, UH, AT 400.
UH, SHOWING THAT, UH, AGAIN, THIS IS THE SUBDIVISION THAT YOU, UH, RIGHT, RIGHT.
SO WHERE IS THIS EXTENSION? THIS ADDITION GONNA GO ON THIS MAP RIGHT HERE TO THE FRONT.
SO IF YOU LOOK BACK, CURRENTLY, YOU SEE THE WINGS HERE, HERE, THE MAIN PART.
SO THEY WOULD EXTEND THE BUILDING OUT THIS DIRECTION.
THAT SETBACK STILL MEETS THE SETBACKS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
SO THEY'RE ASKING FOR AN EXPANSION OF THAT BUILDING.
THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN DO THE EXPANSION, THE FIRST STEP IS GET A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
THEN THEY WOULD COME BACK FOR THE OTHER, UH, PERMITS.
ONCE THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, UH, WE WOULD ASSUME WOULD BE GRANTED, THEY COME BACK FOR AN ADDITION ON THE BUILDING.
GONNA BE A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION ON STRAT SPRING GROUND.
SO THEY HAVE TO HAVE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT GRANTED TO DO THE EXPANSION.
THEN IT WOULD BE COMING IN CONFORMANCE.
SO IF THEY WANNA DO EXPANSIONS IN THE FUTURE, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY HAVE THE PROPERTY, THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, HAVE MORE LAND HERE, UH, NEED TO EXPAND THE PARKING OR SOMETHING, THEN THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO COME BACK.
UH, THAT WOULD BE WITH SPECIAL USE PERMIT, VALIDATE, UH, SUCH IMPROVEMENTS IF NEEDED.
IT, IT'S A, THEY CANNOT DO THE EXPANSION CAUSE IT'S A NON-CONFORMING RIGHT, RIGHT.
BARRING ANY PUBLIC COMMENT THAT WOULD, THAT IS CAUSING SOME PROBLEM BY DOING THIS.
UM, I, I, IT JUST JUST SEEMS LIKE IT'S JUST FIX.
FIXING A PAPERWORK FIX IS REALLY WHAT THIS IS.
SO THEY WOULD, IF, IF IT WOULD HAPPENED CORRECTLY IN 1985, IT OBVIOUSLY IT WOULDN'T BE BEFORE YOU, IT WOULDN'T BE HERE.
UNLESS THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE WOODWORK THAT POPS UP THAT, THAT ELSE, UH, IT SEEMS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.
YOU ALL TO THINKING OF STRASBURG ROAD THOUGH, JOHN MM-HMM
THAT MAKES ME HOP BACK A BIT TO, TO THE FEES, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT.
WE HAD, YOU WENT THROUGH A WHOLE LOT TO DO A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT ON STRASBURG ROAD THAT WAS INITIATED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
BUT WE GAVE YOU A LOT OF WORK.
DID THAT PROPOSED FEE COME NEAR TO COVERING THE COST OF ALL THAT WORK? OF THE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION INITIATED THE AMENDMENT? NO.
SO THERE'S, THERE'S NO APPLICATION FOR THAT.
I GUESS THE, HER QUESTION IS, IF IT HAD BEEN AN OUTSIDE PERSON, YES.
IF IT HAD BEEN AN OUTSIDE PERSON, THEN IT WOULD'VE WENT THROUGH THE, AND WOULD THIS HAVE COVERED THE COST OF ALL, UH, YOU HAD TO GO THROUGH? UH, I'D HAVE TO LOOK WHAT THE FEES ON THAT, BECAUSE SOMEBODY ELSE, I REMEMBER AT SOME POINT SAID, WE SHOULD DO A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WHAT SHEET IS THAT ON US? TEXT AMENDMENT FEES? IS THAT WHAT DIRECT QUESTION? PAGE TWO OF THIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
SO NOW WE'RE ASKING THAT TO GO FROM 400 TO A THOUSAND.
IS THAT A FAIR PRICE? AGAIN, IT WOULD, UH, THE BASE FEE THAT WE'VE SEIZED, ALL THESE ARE $400.
SO SPECIAL USE PERMITS, UH, SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, ALL THOSE FOLLOWING THAT $400 CATEGORY.
SO WE EVALUATED THAT AND WE'VE, YOU KNOW, THAT HAS A GOOD BIT OF DISCUSSION FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
I MEAN, NOW YOU'RE AMENDING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UH, SO, AND THAT TAKES COUNCIL ACTION ALSO, SO THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE LEGWORK, FOR EXAMPLE, IN AMENDMENT OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
AND I, I COULD SEE MORE PEOPLE WANTING TO MAKE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENTS.
WELL, IF WE DID THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND HAVE A VISION FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN THE FUTURE, UH, FOR THE FUTURE GROWTH OF THE TOWN, WE
[01:15:01]
PROBABLY SHOULD NOT BE MAKING AMENDMENTS.THAT'S, THAT'S, THERE'S A COUPLE AREAS THAT KIND OF FELL THROUGH THE CRACKS.
YOU, YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT EASY TO AMEN.
THE COMPREHENSION PLAN POSSIBLE.
BUT WE DON'T WANNA MAKE IT EASY.
SO WHAT ABOUT, YEAH, THAT'LL BE ON, WE WILL DO THAT ON MERIT, THOUGH.
I, I THINK, WELL, WHAT ABOUT MAKING THAT FEE 12, GOING BACK, BACK TO JUST THE LINE ABOVE WHERE YOU HAD SUGGESTED, ESPECIALLY IN THE SHORT TERM
I DON'T KNOW WHAT 200 EXTRA DOLLARS IS GONNA DO, AND I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT STAFF ARE THE ONES THAT CAME UP WITH THIS.
SO I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR THEM ON THEIR BEHALF, BUT THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ARE DOING THIS EVERY DAY.
SO I THINK THAT THEIR RECOMMENDATION IS PROBABLY REASONABLE.
I WOULD IMAGINE I WOULD, I WOULD CONCUR.
YOU GONNA STICK WITH THAT? OKAY, FINE.
I JUST, I'M JUST, YEAH, WE DIDN'T, WE DIDN'T PULL THE NUMBERS OUT THERE.
WE HAD TO JUSTIFY THESE CHANGES.
ALLOW LODGING HELPS US BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN THE R ONE DISTRICT.
UH, SO NOW, YOU'RE, NOW THERE A LOT OF THINGS, UH, TONIGHT, DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S RESPONSIBLE FOR.
SO WE HAD A SUBMISSION TO AMEND THE ZONING TEXT, UH, TO TOWN CODE CHAPTER 1 75, 12 0.1 TO ALLOW LODGING HOUSES, BUT WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN THE R ONE ZONING DISTRICT.
UH, SO YOU, YOU'RE BEEN ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR SOME TIME.
UH, WE, WE'VE HAD, HAD SEVERAL SUBMITTAL FOR LA LODGING HOUSES.
USUALLY THOSE HAVE BEEN IN THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.
SO WHAT, UH, THE APPLICANT HAS PROPOSED IS TO ALLOW LODGING HOUSES WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT UNDER LODGING ROOM, ROOMING HOUSES AND BOARDING HOUSES.
BUT ON PARCELS, THE LAND HAS TO BE THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE OR LARGER.
SO YOU'LL BE IN THE R ONE DISTRICT.
SO THAT LOT HAS TO BE THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE OR LARGER, NOT IN ANY R ONE DISTRICT WHERE YOU HAVE, UH, LOTS, YOU KNOW, UH, 10,000 SQUARE FOOT OR SOMETHING.
BUT THE LOT WOULD HAVE TO BE THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE OR LARGER.
SO THE, THE RATIONALE IS, YOU KNOW, LODGING HOUSES, BOARDING HOUSES MAY BE A GOOD FIT IN THE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS.
WHY THREE QUARTERS RATHER THAN HALF
DID YOU WELL, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE A STATEMENT OF JUSTIFICATION WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE.
WELL, THE, THE APPLICATION WAS VERY SPARTAN.
WE, WE JUST TAKE THE APPLICATIONS AS PRESENTED.
IN, IN MANY WAYS IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE IF IT'S A HALF AN ACRE OR THREE QUARTERS OF ACRE.
SO I THINK THAT THAT'S ALMOST A RED HERRING, THE ACREAGE SIZE TO ME ANYWAY, GOING.
THE, UM, UM, YOU'D BE INTERESTED TO HEAR PUBLIC FEEDBACK ON THIS ONE.
THE, THE PUBLIC ACTUALLY, YOU, YOU'RE NOT DONE WITH YOUR PRESENTATION.
IT WAS, IT WAS A ONE LINE, OR THEY PUT IT, SO THE INTENT OF THE R ONE DISTRICT FOR LOOKING AT THIS IN TERMS OF LODGING, ROOMING, BOARDING HOUSES, THERE'S ALREADY IN, UH, A COMMERCIAL ALLOWANCE, UH, BY SPECIALIST GRANT FOR BED AND BREAKFASTS SHORT.
BUT THIS STATEMENT OF INTENT HERE PROMOTE AND ENCOURAGE A SUITABLE ENVIRONMENT FOR FAMILY LIFE WHERE THERE ARE CHILDREN TO PROVIDE SUITABLE, UH, AREAS FOR SUITABLE EXPANSION OF THE TOWN FACILITIES, UH, AS FACILITIES ARE PROVIDED.
AND TO PROHIBIT ALL COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES, DEVELOPMENTS TO RELATIVE LOW CONCENTRATION, SINGLE UNIT DWELLINGS, ET CETERA.
SCHOOLS, PARKS, CHURCHES, PUBLIC FACILITIES, MOBILE HOMES, OR ROOMING HOUSES ARE PROHIBITED.
IS IT EXPLICITLY STATED IN THE STATEMENT OF INTENT? SO AS FAR AS I SEE IT, LODGING HOUSES, THERE'S A REASON WHY THEY KEEP IT BY.
THEY'VE STUCK TO THE COMMERCIAL AREAS PRIMARILY.
I'M KNOW, I, I KNOW THAT IN R TWO R THREE, THERE'S SOME OTHER VARIANCES IN, IN TERMS OF, OF WHAT'S ALLOWED OR NOT.
BUT TO PUT THIS INTO R ONE, IT DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS THE STATEMENT OF INTENT FOR THE ENTIRE ZONING
[01:20:01]
DISTRICT.IT, IT JUST SEEMED OFF THE TOP SEEMS LIKE A POOR FIT.
WE DON'T HAVE THE, IN FRONT OF US, THE DEFINITION OF A ROOMING HOUSE.
AND WE, WE HAD, WE WENT THROUGH THIS OUT THERE IN THAT ONE, THE RIVER RIVERTON.
UM, AND I REMEMBER THE DEFINITION WAS VERY INTERESTED.
UH, CAN YOU PULL IT UP? I'M JUST LOOKING.
A ROOMING HOUSE ALSO CALLED A MULTI-TENANT HOUSE IS A DWELLING WITH MULTIPLE ROOMS, NOT TENEMENT.
BUT ANYWAY, DWELLING WITH MULTIPLE ROOMS RENTED OUT INDIVIDUALLY IN WHICH THE TENANT SHARES THE KITCHEN AND OFTEN BATHROOM FACILITIES, ROOMING HOUSES ARE OFTEN USED AS HOUSING FOR LOW INCOME PEOPLE OR ROOMING HOUSES, OR LEAST EXPENSIVE HOUSING FOR SINGLE ADULTS.
UH, WHAT CODE IS THAT UNDER? THIS IS, UH, ENCYCLOPEDIA.
SO YOU HAVE TO, YOU HAD TO REFERENCE TOWN CODE.
DO YOU HAVE YOUR ORDINANCE WITH YOU, JOHN? THERE'S ZONING ORDINANCE, OR NO, I HAVE MINE.
UM, I CAN LOOK IT UP ON MINE IF YOU NEED TO.
I GOT THE, I GOT THE CARD COPY YET YOU TOWN CODE.
HAD BROUGHT, THAT SHOULD BE UNDER 1 75 3 OF TOWN CODE.
WE DEFINED IT UNDER AND WHICH, WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT? LODGING HOUSE UNDER 1 75 DASH THREE.
MINE IS IN A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE, NOT IN ENGLISH.
IT'S NOT, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS LANGUAGE IS, BUT IT'S NOT ENGLISH.
IT'S A RESIDENTIAL BUILDING OTHER THAN A HOTEL MOTEL OR A BED AND BREAKFAST HOME WHERE LODGING IS PROVIDED FOR COMPENSATION ON A REGULAR BASIS PURSUANT TO PREVIOUS ARRANGEMENTS, BUT WHICH IS NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC OR TRANSIENT GUESTS BE PROVIDED IN A CENTRAL LOCATION.
NO PROVISIONS FOR COOKING INDIVIDUAL ROOMS. MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ROOMS OR UNITS SHALL BE CONTROLLED BY THE AREA REQUIREMENTS OF THE DISTRICT IN WHICH THE USE IS LOCATED.
BUT IN NO CASE SHALL IT EXCEED 10 LODGING HOUSE SHALL ALSO BE KNOWN AS A ROOMING HOUSE, REPORTING HOUSE.
NOW IN OUR, IN OUR COMMUNITY MM-HMM
UM, THERE ARE HARSHER TOWN WHERE PEOPLE, I MEAN, I MEAN, I'M, I THINK THIS COULD BE A GOOD USE.
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE THREE QUARTER ACRE, BUT I MEAN, I CAN, I'M THINKING OF INDIVIDUALS WHO NEED TO BE AN EARLY HOUSE, AND I'M THINKING OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BIG HOUSES AND FAMILY GROWN AND FLED WHO COULD ENABLE THEMSELVES TO SURVIVE BY HAVING A GROWN, YOU KNOW, OR A GRANDSON OR SOMEBODY COME AND LIVE WITH THEM, WHICH WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED CURRENTLY UNDER THE R ONE, UH, STATUTE.
YOU KNOW, IF HE WAS PAYING GRANNY SOME RENT THAT WOULD BE GRANNY WOULD PAY.
IF IT'S, IF IT'S PEOPLE KEEPING STUFF WITHIN A FAMILY ARRANGEMENT, I HIGHLY DOUBT ANYBODY IS GOING ELSE IS GONNA KNOW ABOUT IT.
I MEAN, PARENTS WILL CHARGE THEIR COLLEGE CHILDREN RENT AT TIMES.
YOU KNOW, YOU TURNED 18 TIMES, START PAYING RENT.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA COME TO THE, TO THE TOWN.
WHAT THIS IS ASKING FOR COMPLAINT ONLY IF IT'S A PROBLEM.
UM, IN WHICH CASE THEN, THEN THINGS COME UP.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I, BETSY CHARGING HER GRANDSON $200 A MONTH OR WHATEVER IS NOT GONNA COME HERE.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT ALLOWS FOR THE ENTIRE HOUSE TO BE SPLIT ROOM BY ROOM AT EACH ROOM, RENTED OUT INDIVIDUALLY, HAD LOCKS ON EACH DOOR, SO TO SPEAK.
DOES, DOES IT, DOES IT, IT A RESIDENTIAL BUILDING WHERE LOING IS PROVIDED FOR COMPENSATION ON A REGULAR BASIS, NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC OR TRANSIENT GUESTS.
AND MEALS ARE GONNA BE IN THE COMMUNITY, IN THE KITCHEN AND NOT IN EACH ROOM.
SO, SO IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT OWNER OCCUPIED? NO.
A LODGING HOUSE COULD BE A, UM, OFF CAMPUS DORM BUILDING.
YOU SEE THEM ALL OVER RICHMOND, FOR EXAMPLE.
[01:25:01]
AND THEY HAVE A PLACE.THEY, THEY, THEY CERTAINLY DO HAVE A PLACE.
I JUST DON'T KNOW IF IT'S IN A PLACE THAT ONE EXPLICITLY STATES IN THE STATEMENT OF INTENT THAT ROOMING HOUSES ARE NOT TO BE ABLE TO, AND THAT IT'S FOR FAMILY LIFE, ENCOURAGEMENT OF CHILDREN, THINGS LIKE THAT.
YOU'RE NOT FINDING THAT IN A, IN A, IN A LODGING HOUSE.
THEN WE'RE ALSO, UM, VIOLATING THE PEOPLE WHO ALSO ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHO BOUGHT IN WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT SUCH THINGS WOULDN'T EXIST.
UH, I THINK THAT'S THE REASONING THAT THE THREE QUARTER OF AN ACRE WAS SELECTED BECAUSE A SPECIAL USE PERMIT DOES HAVE IMPLICATIONS ON THE ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNERS.
SO THAT'S TO ME THAT IT'S IRRELEVANT.
YEAH, I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S MY OPINION.
I HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT, BUT THAT
THE PUBLIC HAS TO SAY VERY, SO BE HC, WHAT KIND OF FEEDBACK WE GET.
UH, NEXT ITEM JUST HAVE JUST A PROCEDURAL QUESTION.
UM, SO TO YOUR POINT, IT WASN'T PUBLIC HAS SAY S IN DIRECT, THAT'S FINE.
CONTRADICTION OF THE STATEMENT OF INTENT.
SO IT WOULDN'T BE JUST ADDING THIS LINE.
IT WOULD BE HAVING TO REVISE THE STATEMENT OF INTENT.
BUT THEY ARE ASKING FOR US TO JUST ADD THAT LINE.
THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO DO THIS.
WE COULD ADD THAT IN IF WE SO DESIRE OF STRIKING THAT LINE.
UM, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE APPLICANT IS ASKING FOR.
THEY'RE JUST ASKING TO ADD A LINE TO ADD A LINE.
AND I WONDER IF THEY READ THE REST OF R ONE.
PLUS THERE'S VERY LITTLE INFORMATION IN THE LINE THAT, FOR THEIR THING OF WHAT THEIR INTENT TO DO WITH IT.
THEY DIDN'T FEEL NEEDED TO HAVE THAT.
UH, NEXT ITEM ON YOUR AGENDA IS THE ANNUAL REPORT.
THIS LOOKS SO GOOD,
UM, THAT TELLS YOU BASICALLY, UM, THE OTHER COMMISSIONS AND WHAT YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED IN THE PAST YEAR WITH THE APPLICATIONS.
EVERYTHING, UM, ALL PERMITS, ALL THE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS.
YOU LOOK AT THIS WORK,
UM, I REMEMBER WHEN ONE OF THE OTHER COMMISSION MEMBERS WAS NOT ON THE COMMISSION ANYMORE, GAVE THE REPORT LAST YEAR TO THANK YOU COUNSEL.
UM, AND IT WAS ALL VERY MUCH A WOW, LOOK AT HOW MUCH EVERYONE DID.
IT'S JUST A, IT'S JUST A RECORD OF EVERYTHING THAT ON, BECAUSE A BUSY YEAR, BUSY YEAR, TYPICALLY WHAT YOU'LL DO IS ACCEPT IT.
AND, AND, UM, AND THEN THE CHAIRMAN WILL PRESENT IT TO TOWN COUNCIL AT ONE OF THEIR MEETINGS.
SO ARE WE LOOKING FOR ACCEPTANCE ON THIS TONIGHT? NO.
THAT WOULD BE GOOD FOR ME TO GET A LOT OF BACKGROUND, KIND OF A SYNOPSIS OF ALL THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED.
THAT'S A SNAPSHOT OF EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS.
ALSO, UM, THE MINUTES ARE POSTED ONLINE.
I'VE BEEN READING YOU, I'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH THERE.
THE VIDEOS VISUALLY IS A LITTLE YEAH, YEAH.
THEY'RE QUITE, AND THEY'RE QUITE GOOD.
AND SOMETIMES YOU GET A LOT OF NUANCES IN THE VIDEOS YOU WON'T GET OTHERWISE.
AND SO THIS INCLUDES ALL THE BR ACTIVITIES.
ALTHOUGH TECH, TECHNICALLY THE B IS UNDER THE PLANTATION, BUT WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT.
THIS IS JUST THE, UM, PLANNING AND ZONING OFFICE ANNUAL REPORT.
I DO DO A SEPARATE, I PULL THE BZA
[01:30:01]
OUT SEPARATE 'CAUSE THEY'RE, THEY'RE LEGALLY HAVE TO HAVE ONE JUST THEIRS.SO I PUT IT IN HERE AS WELL AS THEY ACCEPT JUST THEIRS.
BUT LIKE, IT SEEMS LIKE ABOUT A YEAR AGO OR TWO YEARS AGO, WE WERE TOLD THAT WE WOULD NOW BE NOTIFIED OF WHAT WAS GOING ON.
WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY APPLICATIONS.
SO WE'LL BE NOTIFIED WITH, FOR BDA IN 2024.
WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY, THEY HAD SOME, YOU KNOW, ORGANIZATIONAL MEETINGS AND, UM, MEETINGS TO DISCUSS THEIR BYLAWS, BUT THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANY ACTION ITEMS. WHAT'S PCA BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS WHEN WE TELL SOMEONE, SO THEY, THEY, THEY CAN, UH, UH, AN APPLICANT CAN OR CAN TO PUT AN APPLICATION INTO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TO UH, ASK FOR, UM, THEY DISAGREED WITH THE DETERMINATION OF THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR.
SO IF THEY LEAVE, THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR INTERPRETS THE CODE, UH, INCORRECTLY, UH, THEY CAN APPEAL TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS TO INTERPRET THE TOAD.
UH, THEY CAN ALSO GO TO THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, UH, FOR SUBMISSION OF A VARIANCE.
UM, UH, WHICH CANNOT BE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY IF THEY, UH, HAVE A CRITERIA FOR A HARDSHIP ON THEIR APPLICATION BY STATE CODE.
IT, THEY HAVE TO JUSTIFY HARDSHIP.
NOT SAYING THEY CAN'T PUT AN APPLICATION IN, BUT ONE OF THE CRITERIA IS IT HAS TO HAVE A HARDSHIP TO BE GRANTED A VARIANCE AND NOT SELF-INDUCED HARDSHIP.
DO YOU WANT TO TAKE MY HARD COPY? HOPE, I MEAN, I DO HAVE A SOFT COPY.
THIS NEEDS, THIS NEEDS TO LOOKED AT, I'M SURE.
AND OBVIOUSLY WE'RE NOT GONNA GET AROUND TO DISCUSSING THE CODE BUSINESS TONIGHT.
LAUREN SAID SHE WANTED TO WAIT.
UM, SHE WANTS TO GET WITH GEORGE TO, UM, GO OVER WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED AND, AND REVISE THE PORTIONS THAT YOU HAD AND THEN BRING THAT BACK TO YOU AND WANTS TO GET THAT KIND OF FINALIZED BEFORE ME BEFORE.
SO, WELL, IT'S SOMEWHAT FRESH.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF HER PLAN.
ANY FURTHER BUSINESS? I JUST WANTED TO MENTION ONE THING.
UM, I, I WOULD RECOMMEND IF YOU GET A CHANCE ON MONDAY AT NOON, THERE WAS THE FRONT ROYAL ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, UM, GROUP MET MM-HMM
AND, UH, THERE WAS A FEW THINGS THAT, UH, WOULD BE PERTINENT TO THIS, POTENTIALLY PERTINENT TO US AS WE GO FORWARD.
ONE HAS TO DO WITH HOW THE COUNTY AND THE, UM, THE CITY LEGISLATIVELY ARE GOING TO BE INTERACTING.
THERE'S LEGISLATION OR LACK OF LEGISLATION WENT ON.
ACTUALLY, GEORGE DID A BRIEFING, UH, OF THAT.
THERE'S ALSO SOME THINGS TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PARKING AND SOME OF THE BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES.
THEY, THEY'RE SAYING, UM, IT'S LESS, LESS THAN AN HOUR LONG.
IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT BE INTEREST.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IF YOU GET A CHANCE TO WATCH THE VIDEO.
AND HE SAYS THE EDA, THAT'S EDA WEBSITE.
PARDON? IT'S ON THE TOWN WEBSITE.
IS IT POSTED ALREADY OR DO WE KNOW THAT? I DON'T KNOW.
'CAUSE I'M NOT INVOLVED IN THAT BOARD.
BUT THEY, THEY DO POST IT AT THE SAME PERIOD TIME, BUT I JUST FOUND IT, UM, INTERESTING AS IT EVOLVES FOR THAT.
HE RAN OFF 'CAUSE HE KNEW I WAS GONNA MENTION HIS NAME.
WHAT WAS THE DATE OF THE MEETING? MONDAY.
IT WAS THIS PAST MONDAY, TWO DAYS AGO.
SORRY, THAT'S ALL I JUST WANTED TO MENTION.
WHAT, AND I DIDN'T HEAR FROM ANYBODY ABOUT GOING ON A TOUR OF THE SOLAR FARM.
IS THAT SOMETHING NO ONE WANTS TO DO, INCLUDING YOU GUYS? IF YOU'RE INTERESTED? THE TOWN SOLAR FARM TOWN.
SOLAR FARM, I'D BE INTERESTED.
IT'S GONNA BE A MONDAY THROUGH THURSDAY DURING BUSINESS HOURS.
SOMETIMES, AND I CAN, I CAN GET LIKE THREE TIMES.
I'LL ASK THEM FOR THREE TIMES AND THEN SEND THAT OUT.
IF, IF PEOPLE WOULD BE INTERESTED.
HAVE YOU BEEN TAGGING ALONG?
I'LL JUST, I'LL JUST PUT IT THAT WAY.
I CAN'T IMAGINE IT'D BE MORE THAN AN HOUR OF, OF TIME THAT WE GO THROUGH.
[01:35:01]
I'LL EXTEND THE WHEN I, WHEN I GET THE TIME.SO I'LL GO AHEAD AND SEND IT TO YOU GUYS AS WELL.
SO ONE THING TO KEEP IN MIND AT YOUR, UM, THAT YOU MAY WANT TO THINK ABOUT THE NEXT SCHEDULE PLANNING, COMMISSION MEETING, UH, I WILL BE IN RICHMOND FOR A PLANNING COMMISSION EDUCATION.
SO ALL THESE ITEMS ARE GOING TO PUBLIC HEARING, BUT YOU WILL NOT BE THERE.
REMEMBER ME
YOU HAD TO GO FOR, UH, TO FINISH IT UP.
I KNEW IT IN TWO WEEKS, BUT I JUST TOTALLY FORGOTTEN THAT I WOULD HAVE, I MEAN, I COULD COME HERE AND THEN DRIVE TO OUR WE HAVE NO, WE HAVE NO, I COULD, YEAH.
I KNOW THE TOWN HAD FOR AN ILLNESS OR ILLNESS OR A RELATIVE, YOU COULD DO IT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE SUCH A THING OR AN A METHOD OF ACCEPTION, DO WE? NOT THAT I COULD FIND.
WE HAD IT ONE TIME, BUT THAT WAS DURING THE WHOLE COVID THING.
UM, BUT I DON'T THINK WE DO AT THIS POINT.
SO MY PRESIDENT, UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IN DEPTH YOU WANT AT THE NEXT PUBLIC HEARING ON THESE ITEMS. RIGHT.
UH, AND I WON'T BE HERE, I'LL BE IN RICHMOND.
BUT IF YOU WANT THE SAME PRESENTATION, USUALLY THE WORK SESSION IS MORE EXTENSIVE THAN IT'S MORE EXTENSIVE.
AND THEN I KIND OF TONE IT DOWN FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING PART OF IT SO YOU'RE NOT INUNDATED WITH STUFF YOU ALREADY HEARD BEFORE.
HOPEFULLY YOU READ THE PACKET AND YOU HAVE A STAFF REPORT WITH A SUMMARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE STAFF.
UH, LAUREN, UH, SHOULD DO THE WILL BE AT THAT MEETING.
SO I, I THINK WHAT, BARRING SOMEBODY IN, IN A PUBLIC HEARING, COME UP WITH SOME SOMETHING THAT'S LIKE, OH NO,
UH, I AM GONNA HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT.
I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, THE CLASSES START TILL THURSDAY MORNING.
SO TECHNICALLY SPEAKING, I COULD BE HERE AND THEN DRIVE AFTER THAT'S THAT FAR TO RICHMOND.
WELL, I WILL, I WILL DEFINITELY KEEP YOU INFORMED AS TO WHAT HAPPENS,
THAT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE A NICE, NICE HOTEL WAITING FOR YOU MENT, RIGHT? I MEAN, YES.
IF YOU, YOU, AND NOW IF SHE'S NOT GONNA BE IN HERE AT THAT MEETING, THERE'S GONNA BE FOUR OF YOU.
SO I KNOW YOU NEED TO HAVE A QUORUM THERE.
WE ONLY NEED THREE FOR QUORUM.
SO, UH, JUST AND KNOW THIS FLU BUG IS GOING RAMPANT, ESPECIALLY HERE IN TOWN HALL.
UH, SO JUST, WE WOULD HOPE IT WOULD BE OUTTA HERE IN TWO WEEKS.
I MEAN, THE COMMUNITY SEEMS LIKE, I THINK TODAY SOMEONE MENTIONED THAT THE URGENT CARE, THE WAIT WAS THREE HOURS AT URGENT CARE.
IF YOU GET SICK, LET, LET COUNTY KNOW OR ME KNOW EITHER CONNIE AHEAD OF TIME.
SO THAT, AND THEN WHAT HAPPENS, WE CANCEL PROBABLY.
WE WOULD JUST, I'M JUST WHAT YOU GUYS USUALLY JUST TO THINK ABOUT THAT THEN.
SO IF WE DON'T, IF WE KNOW WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A QUORUM, DO WE CANCEL THE WE WOULD HAVE TO.
AND THEN, BUT JUST WE HAVE TO LOSE TWO, RIGHT? WE HAVE TO LOSE THREE.
SO I GUESS THE VIRTUAL WAS IN APRIL.
YOU SIGNED UP FOR THE VIRTUAL? YEAH.
AND I WILL GET YOU REGISTERED FOR THAT.
I SAW THAT YOUR EMAIL SIGNING UP TO THAT AS WELL.
DO I GET MOTION? OTHER ITEMS OF BUSINESS? ONCE YOU ADJOURN? WE COULD, WE COULD ADJOURN.
SO I, I MOVED THAT WE DURING THE MEETING, HER SECOND.
WHO WAS THE SECOND? MAKE IT OKAY.