* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:02] OKAY, [I. CALL TO ORDER ] IT IS NOW SEVEN O'CLOCK. SO THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING FOR THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL, JANUARY 15TH, 2025 WILL NOW COME TO ORDER. MS. POTTER, WILL YOU CALL THE ROLE PLEASE? CHAIRMAN MARNER. I'M HERE. VICE CHAIRMAN NEIL. PRESENT. COMMISSIONER BROOKS? HERE. COMMISSIONER MARRAZZO. HERE. WE HAVE A QUORUM. IS THERE ANYTHING TO BE ADDED OR SUBTRACTED FROM THE AGENDA? DOES ANY MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION WISH TO ADD OR DELETE ANYTHING? OKAY. NEXT ITEM [IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES ] IS THE APPROVAL OF MINUTES. WE HAVE ALL READ THE MINUTES. DO I HEAR A MOTION TO, DO I HEAR A MOTION SO THAT IF WE NEED TO DISCUSS, WE MAY. IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES? I, I MOVE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM OUR LAST MEETING. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND IT DO WE NEED TO DISCUSS? OKAY. UH, MS. POTTER, PLEASE CALL THE ROLE COMMISSIONER MARRAZZO? YES. COMMISSIONER BROOKS? YES. CHAIRMAN MARNER? YES. VICE CHAIRMAN NEIL? YES. VERY GOOD. AT THIS POINT, THE MEETING IS OPEN TO CITIZEN COMMENTS. THIS IS NOT, UH, PUBLIC HEARING COMMENTS ON THE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA, BUT FOR CITIZEN COMMENTS ON ANY TOPIC RELATING TO LAND USE, UH, IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WISHES TO SPEAK ON ANY TOPIC, UH, RELATED TO LAND USE PERTAINING TO THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL? IF SO, SPEAK NOW OR HOLD YOUR PEACE UNTIL NEXT MEETING. OKAY. THE, UH, THE CITIZEN COMMENTS IS CLOSED. [VI. PUBLIC HEARING ] AT THIS POINT, WE NEED TO OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. SO THE FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS IS 2 4 0 0 6 7 3. MR. WARE, OUR DEPUTY ZONING ADMINISTRATOR, CAN YOU GIVE US A REPORT ON THIS PLEASE? APPLICATION 24 0 0 6 73 IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY PONI ASSOCIATES INCORPORATED CARE OF MIKE ARTS FOR A MULTI-FAMILY APARTMENTS CONTAINING 36 UNITS AND THREE SEPARATE APARTMENT HOUSES CONTAINING 12 UNITS IN EACH, IN AN OFFICE ON A VACANT PARCEL OFF OF ROYAL LANE, IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP 20 A 17 DASH ONE DASH LOT 14 B ONE. THE PROPERTY IS ZONE C ONE COMMUNITY BUSINESS DISTRICT. UH, THE PARCEL THERE IS LOCATED HIGHLIGHTED IN RED AT THE END OF ROYAL LANE. IT IS CURRENTLY ZONED C ONE THAT IS IN THE RED. AND R ONE IS THE, UH, LOTS ADJACENT TO IT, UH, FOR THE R ONE DISTRICT. SO THE REQUEST IS FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR MULTI-FAMILY APARTMENTS. INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET IS THE SUP APPLICATION, THE IMPACT ANALYSIS STATEMENT, AND A PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN DRAWING, UH, CHAPTER 1 75 39 B. THE FOLLOWING USES ARE PERMITTED IN THE C ONE DISTRICT ONLY BY APPROVAL OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, EXCEPT AS PROHIBITED OR RESTRICTED BY SEPARATE RESTRICTIONS OF RECORD THAT MAY PERTAIN TO THE PROPERTY WITHIN THE C ONE UNDER RESIDENTIAL APARTMENTS OR DWELLING UNITS WITH FOUR OR MORE UNITS OR WERE LOCATED ON THE GROUND FLOOR. SUBJECT TO THE PROVISIONS OF SECTION 1 7 5 1 13, WHICH IS THE APARTMENT SECTION OF TOWN CODE. UH, THEY DID DO A TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS, UH, WHICH IS INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET. UH, WITH THAT IMPACT ANALYSIS ON THE TRAFFIC, THEY DETERMINED THAT THE, UH, TURN LANES IN AND OUT OF THE PROPERTY ON JOHN MARSHALL HIGHWAY WAS SUFFICIENT FOR THE PROPERTY. UH, THERE IS NO STRIPING AT THE END OF ROYAL LANE THAT WHICH INTERSECTS WITH JOHN MARSHALL HIGHWAY THAT WAS WITHIN THE REPORT AND THEY DID, UH, SUBMIT A PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN OF THE, OF THE PROJECT. UH, THERE'S A PROJECT THERE WITH THE TOPOGRAPHICAL, UH, GRADING PLAN THERE EXISTING, UH, IN THE FUTURE USE WITH A PARKING LOT, THREE BUILDINGS AND AN OFFICE WITH A CUL-DE-SAC AT THE END. A RURAL LANE WOULD BE IMPROVED AT THAT PORT, UH, FOR THE PROJECT, UH, AND THEN THEY WOULD EN LOCATE A STORM WATER MANAGEMENT FACILITY THERE TO THE WEST PART OF THE CUL-DE-SAC. THINGS TO KEEP IN MIND FOR THIS SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THE GOVERNING BODY IS AUTHORIZED TO GRANT SPECIAL USE [00:05:01] PERMITS UNDER SUITABLE REGULATIONS AND SAFEGUARDS UNDER VIRGINIA CODE 15 22 86 A THREE UNDER VIRGINIA LAW. THE CONDITIONS IMPOSED MUST BE REASONABLE RELATIONSHIP TO THE LAND USE CONCERNS AND PROBLEMS GENERATED BY THE USE OF THE PROPERTY, UNLIKE PROFFERS, THAT ACCOMPANYING A REZONING BECAUSE WE WILL HAVE A REZONING APPLICATION AFTER THIS. UNLIKE PROFFERS THAT A COMPANY REZONING CONSIDERED BY THE LOCALITY'S GOVERNING BODY SPECIAL USE CONDITIONS, PERMITS CONDITIONS ARE VOLUNTEERED BY THE LANDOWNER AND NEED NOT BE DEVELOPED THROUGH NEGOTIATIONS. PROFFERS ARE DESIGNED TO REDUCE THE PUBLIC, UH, IMPACT ON PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE. SPECIAL USE PERMITS SHALL DEMONSTRATE THE APPROPRIATENESS OF ESTABLISHING THE SPECIAL USE ON THAT PROPERTY. TYPICAL STANDARDS THAT APPLY TO SPECIAL USE PERMITS, YOU SHOULD INCLUDE OR CONSIDER THE FOLLOWING, THE IMPACTS OF THE SPECIAL USE ON THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT, THE IMPACT OF THE SPECIAL USE ON THE WELFARE OF THE LANDOWNER AND OCCUPANTS OF THE LAND IN THE DISTRICT. AND IS IT CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. OTHER FACTORS THAT YOU SHOULD CONSIDER IS THE CHARACTER OF THE PROPERTY, THE GENERAL WHERE OF THE PUBLIC AND THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF THE COMMUNITY. IF YOU CHOOSE TO PO IMPOSE CONDITIONS ON THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THE CONDITIONS MUST HAVE A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PRIVATE PAR PARTY'S ACTIVITY AND THE BURDEN PLACED ON THE COMMUNITY AS A RESULT. AND THOSE SHOULD BE ROUGHLY PROPORTIONAL TO THE BURDEN IMPOSED. SO WE, UH, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS AT THE WORK SESSION. UH, THE QUESTIONS WERE BROUGHT UP ABOUT STRIPING HERE AT ROYAL LANE AT THE END OF ROYAL LANE. THERE IS NO STRIPING TO SEGREGATE TRAFFIC THERE AT THE END OF RURAL LANE. UH, ALSO WITH THE UPGRADE OF ROYAL LANE, UH, IT WOULD AFFECT THE, UH, SINGLE FAMILY, UH, HOUSE JUST NORTH OF THE PROJECT ON THE EAST SIDE OF RURAL LANE. UH, THEY ARE SHOWING AN UPGRADE TO A RESIDENTIAL DRIVEWAY, UH, FROM TOWN STANDARDS THERE AND AN IMPROVEMENT TO THE COMMERCIAL ENTRANCE TO THE WEST OF THE PROPERTY WHERE THE CURRENT DAYCARE IS THERE. THEY ALSO NOTED ON THE PLAN THAT THE RIGHT OF WAY WOULD BE EXTENDED TO THE PROPERTY LINE FOR A FUTURE EXTENSION OF RURAL LANE, IF THAT WOULD COME FORTH IN THE FUTURE. UH, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR TOWN STAFF COMMISSIONERS? DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? ANY QUESTIONS? DID YOU HAVE A QUESTION MR. NEIL? NO. OKAY. DO WE NEED TO DISCUSS IT BEFORE WE OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING? OKAY. YEAH. ALRIGHT, WELL, I OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. IS THE APPLICANT HERE? HUH? IS THE APPLICANT HERE? UH, YES. THE APPLICANT'S HERE. DOES THE APPLICANT WISH TO SPEAK? COME ON UP. MADAM CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MY NAME IS MIKE ARTS. UM, I WORK FOR PONE. I'M A LICENSED SURVEYOR AND ENGINEER. AND I JUST WANT TO, UM, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, LET YOU KNOW I'M HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE. CERTAINLY. UM, I THINK JOHN HAS, UH, GIVEN YOU A PRETTY GOOD, UM, OVERALL VIEW OF WHAT THE PROJECT'S GOING TO BE. THIS IS IDENTICAL TO WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, WHAT, FIVE YEARS AGO. AND, UM, IT NEVER WENT TO CONSTRUCTION. SO WE'RE BACK WITH PRETTY MUCH THE EXACT SAME PLAN, WHICH IS THE THREE APARTMENTS, UH, THREE APARTMENT BUILDINGS PLUS, UM, WE'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE AN OFFICE WHICH WILL BE UTILIZED TO MANAGE THOSE APARTMENTS. OTHER THAN THAT, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH THE SAME PLAN AS BEFORE. UM, IT'S MY OPINION THAT, UM, THE PROPERTY FITS IN WITH THE CHARACTER OF WHAT'S ALREADY THERE. WE HAVE ONE PARCEL, UH, NEARBY NEXT DOOR THAT IS, UH, COMMERCIAL BEING USED COMMERCIALLY, THE DAYCARE AREA AND EVERYTHING ELSE ON THAT STREET IS EITHER ALREADY APARTMENTS OR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. [00:10:01] SO I BELIEVE THAT THIS FITS IN WITH THAT. UM, THAT'S ALL I HAVE. UH, OTHER THAN, UH, THROUGHOUT THE SITE PLAN PROCESS, WE WILL BE, UM, MAKING SURE THAT WE COMPLY WITH ALL THE REGULATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS OF DEQ AND INSPECTIONS AND, UM, I GUESS VDOT AS WELL AS ANY OTHER AGENCIES THAT WILL BE REVIEWING THIS PROJECT. MM-HMM . ASSUMING ALL, ALL PERMISSIONS ARE GRANTED, WHAT'S YOUR TIMEFRAME? AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. OKAY. SO, UM, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA TAKE, UM, APPROXIMATELY FOUR TO SIX MONTHS TO GO THROUGH THE SITE PLAN PROCESS. UM, THE SITE PLAN IS BASICALLY READY TO GO. WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TWEAK A FEW THINGS SINCE SOME OF THE REGULATIONS HAVE CHANGED IN THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS. UM, AND THEN AFTER THAT, AS SOON AS WE CAN GET A LAND DISTURBANCE PERMIT, WE WILL BE MOVING AHEAD WITH CONSTRUCTION. OKAY. OKAY. SO, UH, THEY AND THE TIME OF CONSTRUCTION, YOU WOULD ESTIMATE TO BE PROBABLY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 12 MONTHS, MAYBE A LITTLE LONGER THAN THAT. SO THEY'D BE READY FOR OCCUPANCY ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF, GIVE OR TAKE. THAT, THAT SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT. YES. MM-HMM . OKAY. OKAY. UM, DO ANY OF MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS? MS. RAJO? UH, THANK YOU. UH, IN THE APPLICATION, YOU, UH, NOTED AND I MOVED PAST IT, SO FORGIVE ME. HERE WE GO. UM, THE, THAT, THE PART OF THE INTENTION OF THIS PROJECT IS TO PROVIDE DEVELOPMENT OF APARTMENT UNITS TO AID IN SATISFYING, UH, WORKFORCE HOUSING NEEDS. UH, I KNOW THAT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A SPECIFIC DEFINITION IN OUR CODE. UM, WHAT IS YOUR INTENTION OR WHAT IS THE MEANING BEHIND IT FOR, FOR YOUR, UH, GROUP? I AM SORRY. THAT WAS A MISTAKE. I SHOULD NOT HAVE INCLUDED THAT TERM IN, IN THE, UH, UH, THE APPLICATION. WE, WE, WE DON'T INTEND FOR THIS JUST TO BE WORKFORCE HOUSING. THIS IS REALLY GONNA BE OPEN TO ANYBODY. I SEE. SO THERE'S NO INTENTION FOR THIS TO BE SUBSIDIZED OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? NO, NOT AT ALL. OKAY. NOPE. ALRIGHT. YEAH, I WAS JUST CURIOUS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. JUST A COUPLE THINGS WITH THE ROAD THAT WAS GONNA BE EXTENDED ALL THE WAY TO THE PROPERTY LINE, IS THAT WHAT I HEARD? UM, THE, THE ROAD WILL BE EXTENDED TO THE CUL-DE-SAC TURNAROUND, BUT THE RIGHT OF WAY WILL EXTEND ALL THE WAY TO THE PROPERTY LINE SO THAT IF THE NEXT PROPERTY TO THE SOUTH WANTS TO DEVELOP THE RIGHT OF WAY WILL BE THERE FOR THEM TO CONNECT TO. OKAY. AND ISOLATING THE PROPERTY FROM THE EXISTING HOMES ON THE OTHER SIDE. WAS THERE A PLANS FOR FENCING OR ANYTHING ALONG THOSE LINES? CAN, CAN WE SWITCH OVER TO THE, THE GRADING PLAN? WE, UM, WE DON'T SHOW ANY, ANYTHING, ANY FENCING OR ANYTHING. UH, YOU'RE, YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE PROPERTY IMMEDIATELY TO THE NORTH, THE NORTH, THE NORTH SIDE, YES. WE DON'T HAVE ANY PLANS FOR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE. THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WE COULD CONSIDER IF IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. OKAY. MR. BROOKS, ANY QUESTIONS? A COUPLE OF FACT QUESTIONS. UM, EXCUSE ME. I REALIZE IT'S THREE BUILDINGS. HOW MANY UNITS WILL BE IN EACH BUILDING? EACH BUILDING HAS FOUR UNITS, SO THERE SHOULD BE A NO 12, 12 UNITS IN EACH BUILDING. SO THERE'S A TOTAL OF 36 APARTMENTS, THREE, SIX APARTMENTS. AND ARE WE TALKING TWO BEDROOM, THREE BEDROOM, ONE BEDROOM? ALL THE TWO. ALL TWO BEDROOMS. ALL TWO BEDROOMS, I THINK. OKAY. UM, UH, WHEN WE GET TO THE SITE PLAN, WE'LL HAVE MORE QUESTIONS. UM, UM, OKAY. UM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT. APPRECIATE THAT. UH, WE CAN NOW OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING IF ANYBODY WISHES TO SPEAK ON THIS, WHO HAS NOT SIGNED UP. UH, THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO SIGN UP, UH, TO SPEAK AT THIS PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS TOPIC. AT THE MOMENT, THE ONLY MAN SIGNED UP IS JIM NORTH. MR. NORTH, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO COME FORWARD AND SPEAK, UH, COME TO THE PODIUM THERE AND, UH, UH, PUT THE BIKE CLOSE TO YOUR MOUTH PLEASE SO THAT EVERYBODY CAN HEAR YOU AND IDENTIFY YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. CAN YOU HEAR IT FROM HERE? IS THIS OKAY? THAT'S GOOD. I'D LIKE TO START OFF BY SAYING THAT, UH, I DIDN'T MAKE IT TO THE FIRST MEETING BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE FOR WORKFORCE HOUSING. AND I BELIEVE IN THAT. I THINK THERE'S [00:15:01] A REAL BIG NEED FOR THAT HERE. SO I DIDN'T GO, 'CAUSE I FIGURED THAT EVEN THE IMPACT THAT THESE APARTMENTS ARE GONNA HAVE ON THIS LITTLE SMALL STREET THAT'S ONLY 1100 FEET DEEP WITH THE APARTMENTS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE AND THE HOUSING THAT'S ALREADY THERE, IT'S GONNA BE A MAJOR IMPACT DOWN AT THE ROUTE 55 INTERSECTION. UH, IF YOU, THEY DID ALL THESE STUDIES AND ALL THESE NUMBERS, BUT IF YOU DRIVE OUT THERE TONIGHT OR TOMORROW NIGHT AT SIX O'CLOCK, IT'S REAL EASY TO TURN INTO ROYAL LANE, EASTBOUND, WESTBOUND, BUT TRY TO GET OUT IT. PEOPLE SIT THERE WITH ONE FOOT ON THE BRAKE, ONE ON THE GAS, LOOKING FOR A HOLE AND THEY SHOOT. IT'S A TERRIBLE SITUATION. BUT I THOUGHT THAT THE FIRST MEETING, IF IT STAYED THE WAY IT WAS GOING TO STAY AS WORKFORCE, WE TRIED TO FIND SOME SOLUTION TO MAKE THIS THING WORK. BECAUSE YOU DO NEED WORKFORCE HOUSING. NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S NOT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. IT'S GONNA BE APARTMENTS, APARTMENTS TO ANYBODY WHEN THAT HAPPENS. AND NOT ONLY APARTMENTS, AN APARTMENT IS SOMETHING THAT'S IN AN APARTMENT BUILDING. ONE OWNER OR ONE GROUP OWNS IT. THE APARTMENTS ARE RENTED. THIS THING CHANGES FROM APARTMENTS TO SOMETHING ELSE LIKE CONDOMINIUMS WHERE THEY'RE INDIVIDUALLY OWNED. YOU HAVE NO CONTROL. EVEN ON A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, YOUR CONTROL IS GONE. AND THAT'S, THAT COULD BE VERY WELL WHAT, WHAT HAPPENED HERE. ONCE THAT SPECIAL USE IS PRESENTED, NOBODY GOES BACK AND CHECKS TO SEE WHAT THAT USE IS. AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, HERE COMES THIS BIG THING, REARS ITS HEAD UP AND THEN YOU GOT A MESS. I WOULD SAY AT LEAST SHELF THIS THING UNTIL THE, THE PROPER APPLICATION CAN BE PUT IN AS TO WHAT THEY WANT TO BUILD AND LET IT START OVER SO THAT EVERYBODY GETS A CHANCE TO COME IN AND TALK ABOUT IT. IN THE BEGINNING, I WOULD'VE CERTAINLY BEEN THERE AT THAT FIRST MEETING. I KNOW OTHER PEOPLE WOULD'VE TOO. LET IT START OVER. LET THE PROCESS GO THE RIGHT WAY. IF, BUT I, I'M TELLING YOU, IT'S A, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, THERE'S SOMETHING GOING TO HAVE TO BE DONE. AND RIGHT NOW, UNDER SPECIAL USE, YOU CAN MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON WHAT YOU THINK SHOULD BE DONE. TRAFFIC CONTROL ON 55, UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN ON THAT STREET ON ROYAL LANE TRYING TO GET OUT, IT IS TERRIBLE. NOT IT. WHEN THEY, WHEN THEY DO SPEED STUDIES OR, OR TRAFFIC CONTROL STUDIES, IT'S A 24 HOUR STUDY. THERE'S, THERE'S NO TRAFFIC ON ROYAL LANE. MIDNIGHT TILL THREE O'CLOCK, BUT FROM SEVEN O'CLOCK UNTIL NINE O'CLOCK, THERE'S A LOT OF TRAFFIC. YOU HAVE PEOPLE COMING IN AND OUT OF THE DAYCARE, YOU HAVE THE APARTMENT PEOPLE TRYING TO GO TO WORK. WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADDRESS SOMETHING ABOUT THE, HOW THE TRAFFIC STUDY WAS CONDUCTED? UM, WE, WE UTILIZE THE INFORMATION. WE CAN'T DO THAT MADAM CHAIRMAN. UH, THAT CAN OCCUR AFTER ALL OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS. OH, OKAY. THEN THERE COULD BE A REBUTTAL. OKAY. SORRY. OKAY. WE'LL SAVE ALL THE QUESTIONS. OKAY. THAT'S A QUESTION FOR YOU. BUT, BUT THERE IS A TIME LIMIT ON PUBLIC COMMENTS. WELL, I DIDN'T MEAN TO OVERSHOOT MY TIME, BUT I DO, I DO ASK YOU, IT'S NOT THAT FAR TO DRIVE TOMORROW MORNING, SEVEN O'CLOCK, GO OUT THERE AND TURN OFF 55 UP ON ROYAL LANE AND SEE WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO TRY TO GET BACK OUT OR TOMORROW AFTERNOON, TRY IT. JUST SEE WHAT IT FEELS LIKE. I MEAN, THERE DID YOU, YOU, YOU, UH, I NEGLECTED TO ASK YOU TO STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. DO YOU LIVE IN THE AREA? I, I OWN THE DAYCARE. OKAY. RIGHT THERE. OKAY. AND I'M NOT, I'M NOT UP HERE TRYING TO, TO, TO HARP AGAINST APARTMENTS GOING IN THERE. 'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, I, IT, IT'S A TERRIBLE PLACE FOR APARTMENTS. OKAY. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF IT WAS GONNA GO WORKFORCE, THEN EVERYBODY TRIES TO DO SOMETHING TO MAKE THAT FIT. BUT NOT JUST TO LIE IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S POCKETS WHEN IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO PUT OTHER PEOPLE IN DANGER JUST TO MAKE A BUCK. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU MR. MARSH. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANYBODY ELSE WISH TO SPEAK ON, ONTO THIS MATTER ON THIS PUBLIC HEARING? IF YOU DO RAISE YOUR HAND, THEN I'LL LET YOU COME UP . OKAY? OKAY. WHEN YOU COME UP, IF YOU COULD SIGN YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS HERE ON THIS SHEET AND ALSO IDENTIFY YOURSELF WHEN YOU GET TO THE PODIUM WITH YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. YES. OKAY. WE LIVE IN THE HOUSES THERE. I LIVED IN THE LAST ONE. OKAY. IT CALLED. AND TELL US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. SHIRLEY HENRY, 78 RURAL LANE. 78 ROYAL LANE. OKAY. THANK YOU FOR COMING. MM-HMM . AND LIKE [00:20:01] THIS GENTLEMAN HERE SAID, TRYING TO GET IN AND OUTTA THERE IS RIDICULOUS. SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE 72 MORE VEHICLES COMING IN AND OUT ALONG WITH THE APARTMENT COMPLEX ACROSS THE ROAD IN THEIR DAYCARE. TELL ME HOW THAT'S GONNA WORK. WHAT IF SOMETHING WERE TO GO WRONG? HOW ARE PEOPLE GONNA GET OUT OF THERE SAFELY? HOW ARE THEY GONNA GET OUT? LAST TWO YEARS, WE'VE BEEN ON THE WATER RESTRICTION, WATER IS ALL THIS HAPPENING UP? LOOK AT ALL THE BOARDED UP PLACES WE HAVE SITTING HERE. RIDE THROUGH YOUR TOWN AND LOOK HOW DISGUSTING IT IS. GET THEM PEOPLE TO TAKE AND FIX THEM UP AVENUE SIXTH STREET. THEY'VE BEEN SITTING THERE BIG, HUGE SIGNS FOR HOW MANY YEARS NOW FOR SALE. TELL THEM PEOPLE FIX 'EM UP, TEAR 'EM DOWN, REBUILD SOMETHING, FIX THE TOWN UP. DON'T MAKE MORE ISSUES FOR PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE. OKAY. OKAY. I THINK IT'S TERRIBLE. LIKE I SAID, THERE'S, WHERE'S THE TRAFFIC GONNA BE? THE WATER SUPPLY. TELL US WHERE ALL THIS IS COMING OUT. WHAT'S GOING, I'M SURE THERE'S MORE PLACES TO BUILD BESIDES RIGHT THERE. AND LIKE I SAID, WE ALREADY GOT A HUGE APARTMENT COMPLEX. I THINK THIS LITTLE TOWN WANTS TO BUILD UP AND IT DOESN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES TO BUILD THE WAY PEOPLE WANNA BUILD IT HERE. OKAY. PARDON? NOW I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED AND IT'S MR. CAMPBELL'S LOT THAT HE'S BEEN TRYING TO SELL FOR YEARS AND PUT PLACES THERE, LET HIM PUT 'EM UP THERE CLOSE TO HIS HOME WHERE HE HAS A ROAD THAT NOBODY TRAVELS UP AND DOWN. I WORK DOWN IN THE CITY. I GET UP AND LEAVE EARLY IN THE MORNING. AND LIKE HE SAYS, YOU CAN GET IN. WE GOT THREE SCHOOLS RIGHT THERE. I HAVE GRANDCHILDREN I PICK UP EVERY AFTERNOON TRYING TO GET OUT TO GO GET THEM THE SCHOOL BUSES AND STUFF. AND IT'S NOT, AND FOR THE SAFETY OF HER CHILDREN, I THINK IT'S UNFAIR. IT'S A PROBLEM. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU MS. HENRY. YOU'RE WELCOME. THANK YOU. CAN YOU BOTH PLEASE SIGN THE SIGNIN SHEET THAT SHE HAS? YES. AND, AND, AND IF YOU COULD IDENTIFY YOURSELF TOO, PLEASE. OKAY. UM, WELL, MY NAME IS KATRINA AND I PUT MIC BY YOUR MOUTH PLEASE. I'M SORRY. PUT THE MICROPHONE BY YOUR MOUTH PLEASE. BETTER MOVE IT DOWN CLOSER. THERE WE GO. OKAY. UM, MY NAME'S KATRINA. I'M AT 74 ROYAL LANE. AND IT ALSO, AS THE GENTLEMAN STATED IT, THE TRAFFIC IS UNBEARABLE. HONESTLY, THE PICTURES THAT WERE TAKEN SHOWS, NO TRAFFIC. YOU, YOU HAVE SO MUCH TROUBLE GETTING IN AND JUST GETTING OUT ON THAT ROAD AND IT MAKES IT SEEM LIKE THERE'S NOTHING THERE ALL THE TIME. WE HAVE CARS PARKED UP AND DOWN OUR ROAD. WE HAVE TRAFFIC COMING IN AND OUT ALL MORNING AND ALL EVENING. AND IT'S LIKE, WHY WOULD YOU ADD MORE TO THAT? IT'S NOT RIGHT. AND THERE'S PEOPLE THAT, IT SHOWS NO HOUSING UP AND DOWN THOSE ROADS. AND JUST TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE PEOPLE THAT DO LIVE ON THAT ROAD, THERE'S TONS OF OTHER APARTMENTS ACROSS THE STREET AND WE HAVE THE TRAFFIC FROM THEM AS WELL. AND IT'S JUST LIKE, CONSIDER THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE LIVED ON THAT ROAD 30 YEARS TAKE ALL OF US INTO CONSIDERATION AND IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT'S BEING DONE AT ALL. AND IT'S JUST SOMETHING LIKE THAT. OKAY. TRAFFIC CONCERNS AND IT IS TRAFFIC AND OUR CHILDREN. OKAY. AND WE JUST DON'T, WE DO NOT NEED THOSE APARTMENTS. WE JUST DON'T . THERE'S OTHER PLACES THAT CAN EASILY BE FIXED UP THAT ARE, THAT COULD EASILY BE FIXED AND MOVE YOUR APARTMENTS THERE IF THAT'S WHAT YOU NEED. OKAY. HERE IF YOU COULD SIGN IN PLEASE. UM, OKAY. ANY, ANY OTHER, UH, PUBLIC COMMENTS TO BE MADE ON THE ROYAL LANE? QUESTION? OKAY. THANK YOU. AT THIS POINT, MR. ARTS, WOULD YOU LIKE TO REBUT ANY OF THE COMMENTS THAT YOU HEARD? THERE ARE NO EASY ANSWERS AND I'M, I'M SORRY TO YOU GUYS, BUT IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE. THE ZONING OF THE PROPERTY WAS DETERMINED. MADAM CHAIR. THE ZONING OF THE PROPERTY WAS DETERMINED. OKAY. YEAH. YOU HAVE TO SPEAK TO HERE. YOU HAVE TO FACE HERE. YES MA'AM. I, I WILL. THE ZONING OF THE PROPERTY WAS DETERMINED BY THE, BY THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL. AND THERE'S UH, UH, SPECIFIC USES THAT ARE SET FOR THESE PROPERTIES. WE HAVE TWO ZONES, UH, ALONG ROYAL AVENUE. WE HAVE, UH, [00:25:01] A COMMERCIAL ZONE AND WE HAVE A RESIDENTIAL ZONE. AND WE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE THESE KINDS OF DIFFERENT ISSUES, UM, ABOUT HOW THE PROPERTIES ARE USED. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THE ZONING IS THE ZONING. AND IF YOU WANT IT TO BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO HAVE IT REZONED TO SOME OTHER ZONE. AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT THIS PROPERTY DOESN'T HAVE TO BE DEVELOPED IN A RESIDENTIAL CAPACITY. IT COULD BE DEVELOPED AS A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, JUST LIKE THE DAYCARE ACROSS THE STREET, WHICH AS A MATTER OF FACT COULD BE TORN DOWN AND TURNED INTO APARTMENTS AS WELL. SO LET'S JUST BE CLEAR ON THIS. IT GOES BOTH WAYS. UM, THE RESIDENTIAL USE IS FAR LESS INTRUSIVE THAN A COMMERCIAL USE THAT'S ALREADY ALLOWED BY RIGHT. NOT WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. AS FAR AS THE TRAFFIC , WE HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION'S GUIDELINES BECAUSE THEY MAINTAIN AND TAKE CARE OF THE STREETS AND ADMINISTER THE OPERATION OF THOSE STREETS. AND THAT'S HOW WE DEAL WITH THAT IS, UM, WE GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AND UTILIZE THEIR INFORMATION AND WHERE NECESSARY WE ADD, UH, WE DO ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC COUNTS. WE HAVEN'T DONE ANY ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC COUNTS IN THIS, UH, SITUATION. WE'VE UTILIZED THE INFORMATION THAT THEY HAVE. I'M NOT SURE OF THE DATE OF THAT, OF THAT, HOW OLD THAT INFORMATION IS, BUT I, I UNDERSTAND. OKAY. SO JUST TO CLARIFY THAT, SO YOU, YOU'RE RELYING ON A VDOT TRAFFIC STUDY THAT, THAT WAS DONE OF THAT PROPERTY, WAS THAT DONE? NOT, NOT FOR THE PROPERTY. MM-HMM . BUT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOR ROYAL LANE INTERSECTION. IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ROYAL LANE, UH, ROUTE 55 INTERSECTION, THE TRAFFIC COUNTS FOR THE ROADS. THAT INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE. AND YOU DON'T KNOW THE DATE THAT WAS DONE? I DO, I DO NOT. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT WAS DONE FRIDAY AGO? IT MIGHT BE IN THE STUDY. OKAY. THAT, THAT'S ACTUALLY RATHER INTERESTING DATA POINT, BECAUSE IF IT WAS DONE FIVE YEARS AGO THAT THAT COULD BE DIFFERENT NOW. BUT THE VDOT PROVIDED THE TRAFFIC STUDY. OKAY. MM-HMM . ANY, ANY, ANY OTHER? OTHER? OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. MAY I JUST SAY ONE THING? NO, NO, I'M SORRY. IT IT, THE WAY IT WORKS. YOU GOTTA, YOU GOT YOUR CHUNK OF TIME AND THEN MOVES ON. ONLY 10 MINUTES. I HAD 30 MINUTES. . WELL, THERE'S THE ORAL EXAMINER. YOU CAN TALK TO THEM AND MAYBE THEY'LL LET YOU WRITE IT UP. . BUT, BUT WE HAVE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. WE HAVE TO MOVE ON, UH, HERE TO OUR, UH, UH, TO DISCUSSION. SO I WILL, I WILL UNFORTUNATELY. SORRY FOLKS. CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. UH, WE NEED A MOTION BEFORE WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION. IS ANYBODY WILLING TO MAKE A MOTION? FELLOW COMMISSIONERS? NOT YOU. I, I'LL MAKE THE MOTION JUST SO WE CAN HAVE THE DISCUSSION. 'CAUSE IT COULD BE WITHDRAWN AFTER, AFTER THE DISCUSSION. SO I'LL, I'LL, I'LL MOVE THE P COMMISSION FORWARD A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL OF THE TOWN COUNCIL OF THE SPECIAL PERMIT MULTI-FAMILY, UM, CONTAINING 36 UNITS AND THREE SEPARATE APARTMENT HOUSES CONTAINED 12 UNITS EACH IN AN OFFICE BUILDING ON VACANT PARCEL ROYAL LANE, IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP 20 A 17 DASH ONE DASH 14 B ONE. AND SO WE CAN, SO WE CAN TALK. OKAY, THAT'S THE MOTION. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. OKAY. DISCUSSION FIRST. THE, THE IMPACT OF CHANGING THE WORDING, TAKING WORKFORCE HOUSING OUT, BEING MISNOMER, DOES THAT INVALIDATE THIS APPLICATION? THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS. UM, THANK YOU. UM, IN FACT, UM, THE INCOME LEVEL OF PROSPECTIVE, UH, TENANTS CANNOT BE CONSIDERED, UH, BY THE APPROVING BODY. OKAY. THERE'S A SPECIFIC STATE STATUTE ON THAT. OKAY. AND I, I, AND IN OTHER WORDS, I, I DON'T BELIEVE IT RELEVANT. IT DOESN'T JUST, JUST TO MAKE SURE, AND IT HAS NO IMPACT ON THE, AS FAR AS THE ZONING, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF GOING WITH THAT. OKAY. UM, AND I, I BELIEVE WE, AS FAR AS TRAFFIC GOES, UM, AS FAR AS I, MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE HAVE TO RELY ON WHAT VIRGINIA PROVIDES US ON, ON, ON THE B DOT STUDIES. UM, IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE CAN WATCH OR FREELANCE OR GIVE OPINION. [00:30:01] IT'S, UM, YEAH, I THINK THAT IS TRUE. DOES ANYONE DISAGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT? ALRIGHT, KEEP LOOKING AT YOU OR LOOKING AT ME. BUT YEAH, IF YOU CAN ANSWER THAT. IF, SORRY, COULD YOU RESTATE IT PLEASE? THE TRAFFIC STUDY THAT'S PRESENTED AS PART OF THE EVIDENCE, UH, OF, OF THIS AND IT BEING THE MOST RECENT ONE, ASSUMING THAT'S A TRUE STATEMENT, WE MUST RELY ON THAT TRAFFIC STUDY. NOT ANYTHING EMPIRICAL TO GO AROUND IT. UM, THANK YOU. I THINK THE COMMISSION, UM, MUST CONSIDER THE EVIDENCE IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION, WHETHER THAT BE THE APPLICATION, UH, COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC, THE APPLICANT STAFF, AND SO ON. WHAT IS IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION, IF THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION. OKAY. AND, AND WHAT'S IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION IS 2014 VDOT DATA, IDENTIFYING 12,000 TOTAL TRIPS ON JOHN MARSHALL HIGHWAY AT ROYAL LANE. UH, ASSUMING A 50 50 SPLIT BETWEEN EASTBOUND AND WESTBOUND. UH, ABOUT 6,000 EASTBOUND, 6,000 WESTBOUND RESULTING IN 600, 660 PEAK HOUR TRIPS IN EACH DIRECTION. SO THAT WAS 2014. THE DATA. YEAH, I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU. JUST NO, THAT'S THOSE, THOSE ARE, UM, QUESTIONS, BUT DOES ANYONE ELSE YES, MS. MARISSA? YES. UH, THAT BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT, HEARING THE PUBLIC COMMENTS AND THEN SEEING THAT THE MOST RECENT DATA IS FROM 2014. UM, UNDOUBTEDLY THOSE NUMBERS ARE DIFFERENT NOW, 11 YEARS LATER. SO I MEAN, I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE PRUDENT UPON US TO AT LEAST CONSIDER EVALUATING CURRENT TRAFFIC DATA SINCE THIS IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THE PRIMARY, UM, CONCERNS OF THE PUBLIC AND PRIMARY IMPACTS OF THIS PROJECT. ARE YOU WILLING TO MAKE THAT A CONDITION OF SUPPORTING THIS OR DO YOU WANT TO TABLE IT OR ARE YOU PROPOSING ANY ACTION? JUST PART OF THE DISCUSSION NOW. I'D LIKE TO HEAR WHAT EVERYONE ELSE THINKS FIRST. OKAY. WELL, IF, GO AHEAD. SO THE TWO SETS OF, UH, ZONING AREAS THAT ARE, THAT ARE HERE, UM, WITH C ONE AND R ONE. R ONE IS PRETTY PRETTY LOW DENSITY, RIGHT? C ONE DOES ALLOW FOR APARTMENTS AND THEY COME SPECIFICALLY THROUGH THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT. SO THAT VARIOUS FACTORS, INCLUDING THE IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY, THE SPECIFIC LOCATION, THE DENSITY THAT'S BEING PUT FORWARD, ALL OF THESE THINGS CAN BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION. UM, SO THE FACT THAT THERE IS HOUSING NEARBY, UM, OR THAT THERE ARE OTHER SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ALONG THAT STREET, I, I DON'T KNOW HOW, YOU KNOW, AND, AND IT PARTICULARLY RELEVANT. IT IS WHEN IT COMES TO ABUTTING TO R ONE, IT JUST BEING CALLED RESIDENTIAL, UH, IS A BIT OF A GENERALIZATION THAT I THINK SKIPS OVER SOME IMPORTANT ASPECTS TO IT. UM, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN IT COMES TO TRAFFIC, WE SHOULD BE RELYING UPON THE DATA, WHICH, WHICH I'M, YOU KNOW, IN FULL SUPPORT OF. UH, WHAT I'LL ALSO STATE IS JUST A MATTER OF, YOU KNOW, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. I DRIVE JOHN MARSHALL HIGHWAY, UH, A LOT. AND, UH, I'VE NEVER HAD THE BENEFIT OR MISFORTUNE AT THIS POINT OF DRIVING DOWN ROYAL LANE OR COMING BACK OUT THROUGH IT. BUT I SEE THE BACKUP THAT HAPPENS PRETTY MUCH EVERY SINGLE DAY THAT'S THERE. AND TO TURN LEFT OUT OF THAT ROAD, I COULDN'T IMAGINE HOW LONG THAT WOULD END UP TAKING, ESPECIALLY WHEN ADDING IN, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER 200 CARS, GIVE OR TAKE. UH, SO I WOULD THINK THAT AT THE VERY LEAST THIS SHOULD BE TABLED UNTIL WE HAVE MORE ACCURATE AND UP-TO-DATE DATA ON WHAT THE TRAFFIC WILL BE. AND THEN GIVE THE APPLICANT TIME AS WELL TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO TO HELP MITIGATE THAT MADAM CHAIR. YES. IS, IS THAT BEING PROPOSED AS, UH, AN AMENDMENT OR A SUB OR A SUBSTITUTE? WELL, IT'S A DISCUSSION AT THIS POINT. DO YOU WISH TO MAKE AN MOTION JUST PART, JUST PART OF THE DISCUSSION SINCE WE HAVE ONE MOTION ON THE TABLE? I THINK WE HAVE TO REMOVE THAT ONE BEFORE WE COULD DO ANYTHING. IF YOU PUT AN AMENDMENT FOR IT, IT SUPERSEDES IT, IT SUPERSEDE, YEAH. WE'LL DO AMEND AMEND THE MOTION PER SE. IF SO, UM, SO WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING IS TO, UM, PUT THE CON, UH, IS IT DEFER OR PUT A CONDITION THAT IT BE DONE BEFORE IT IS FORWARDED TO THE TOWN COUNCIL? I THINK THIS APPLICATION [00:35:02] IS SO RELIANT ON OLD DATA THAT I WOULD WANT TO FORWARD A RECOMMENDATION OF DENIAL AND LET THEM COME BACK BECAUSE THEY'VE, YOU KNOW, ALREADY SOUGHT TO RESTART THE SITU, RESTART THE APPLICATION. I WOULD SAY HAVE IT RE RESTARTED WITH SOMETHING THAT'S CLEAN AND UP TO DATE. I, I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS BEING PROPOSED IN A WAY THAT, UH, GIVES ME CONFIDENCE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO, THAT WE SHOULD BE, UH, APPROVING IN THE FIRST PLACE. OKAY. SO YOU, SO WHAT YOU'RE ASKING IS TO REJECT THIS MOTION ALTOGETHER? I WOULD PUT IT TO RECOMMENDATION DENIAL PERSONALLY. OKAY. SO, SO WHAT I'LL DO IS IF IT, IF IT'S, IF IT, IF YOU PERMIT, I'LL IF, IF, IF I MAY CLARIFY WHERE WE'RE AT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. SO THERE'S A, WE'LL CALL IT A SUBSTITUTE MOTION. UH, IT, IT REQUIRES A SECOND AND THEN DISCUSSION ON THAT MOTION. WELL, ARE YOU PROPOSING ANOTHER MOTION OR ARE YOU JUST PROPOSING TO VOTE THIS DOWN? MS. OKAY. YEAH, NO, I UNDERSTAND. IT'S FOR A POINT OF CLARITY. SO, UM, YEAH. UM, I WOULD MOVE TO, UH, REPLACE THE PREVIOUS MOTION WITH A, UM, WITH, FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO AFFORD A RECOMMENDATION OF DENIAL TO THE TOWN COUNCIL FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, 2 4 0 0 6 7 3 AS AS OPPOSED TO, AS OPPOSED TO APPROVAL. WELL, AS OPPOSED TO EITHER APPROVAL OR AS OPPOSED TO JUST HOLDING THIS OFF UNTIL THEY APPLICANT TO COME BACK WITH A PRI WITH A TRAFFIC SCENE. THE, JUST A DENIAL AS, AS THERE JUST FLAT OUT THE GUN MOTION REQUIRES A SECOND. DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE IS A SECOND, BUT IT REQUIRES A SECOND TO MOVE FORWARD FOR DISCUSSION. DO WE NEED A VOTE TO CANCEL THE PREVIOUS MOTION ON THE FLOOR? THAT JUST AUTOMATICALLY GETS REPLACED? AMEND, AMEND IT. OKAY. OKAY. SO YOU HAVE MADE A MOTION MM-HMM . AND MS. POTTER, DID YOU GET THE WORDING OF THAT? YES. OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND FOR YOUR MOTION? WE'LL SEE A SECOND. SECOND. THE THING THAT I KEEP THINKING IS THAT IT'S ALREADY, EVEN IF WE APPROVE IT, WE WE'RE STILL A YEAR AND A HALF AWAY, THE TOWN NEEDS HOUSING. SO THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT IS STILL, BUT WE ALSO NEED TRAFFIC CONTROL. SO IT'S, IT'S PRICKLY ON BOTH SIDES. I YEAH. HMM. YOUR THOUGHTS SINCE THE, THE, THE PART, AT LEAST THE PEOPLE BEING IMPACTED CERTAINLY ARE NOT HAPPY, UM, ABOUT HAVING THE ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC OF THE, BUT, BUT IT IS, AS FAR AS THE USE, THE PROPERTY IS NOT EXTRAORDINARY FOR WHAT, WHAT'S GOING ON WITHIN THE LEGAL BOUND AND THE, UM, UH, THE TRAFFIC PER SE IS BEYOND THE CONTROL OF, OF THE APPLICANT HERE USING THE PROPERTY IN A WAY THAT IS LEGALLY ALLOWED, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THIS SPECIAL APPLICATION. AND THAT'S THE CONCERN WITH DENYING IT FOR ME. SO THERE'S, UM, UM, BECAUSE HE, HE CANNOT SOLVE THAT PROBLEM AT THE INTERSECTION BY HIMSELF. THAT'S A, A VDOT ISSUE SHOE WHEN IT COMES TO THE, THE PROPER USE OF THE LAND. UH, THE IMPACT THAT THAT HAS IS WITHIN THAT CONSIDERATION. AND IF THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE LOCATION AND THE WAY THAT IT WOULD THEN AFFECT AND, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY SURROUNDING, UM, THEN IT'S JUST, IT, IT IS NOT A GOOD SPOT FOR IT. I MEAN, YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO, YOU KNOW, PUT A BUNCH OF A APARTMENTS IN AN AREA THAT'S, THAT CAN'T SUPPORT IT. AND I THINK THAT IT'S BEING SHOWN HERE AND FROM THE DATA THAT, THAT WE HAVE, UH, THAT THAT IS INDEED THE CASE. AND OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THE COMMUNITY'S NOT HAPPY AND EVEN THE, THE EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE WHEN IT COMES TO TRAFFIC IS 11 YEARS OLD. THE FACT THAT THAT'S ON AN APPLICATION. OH, I AGREE. IT'S TOO, IS UPSETTING AT, AT THE VERY LEAST. UM, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S APPROPRIATE AT ALL. UM, IF ANOTHER PERSON APPLICANT CAME IN AND JUST WANTED TO BUILD A BUSINESS THERE IN A COMMERCIAL C ONE CURRENT DESIGNATION THAT UM, UM, BE IT ANOTHER DAYCARE OR SOMETHING WITH, UM, UM, 85 EMPLOYEES THAT WOULD, THAT SAME PROBLEM WOULD OCCUR AND NOTHING, AND IT WOULD JUST COULD BE BUILT. THAT WOULD BE BY, RIGHT? YEAH, BUT I, I'M SAYING AS FAR AS THE TRAFFIC IMPACT, IT COULD BE THE SAME, BUT THAT'S ALSO PART OF IT BEING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT OR IS SPECIAL CONSIDERATION TAKEN TO WHAT'S GOING ON THERE FOR, FOR THIS PARTICULAR THING? I'M JUST SAYING NUMBER OF CARS IN THE INTERSECTION. IT [00:40:01] WOULDN'T EVEN BE BEFORE THIS COMMISSION IF THEY WERE TO BUILD ANOTHER DAYCARE THERE WITH 85 CARS GOING IN NOW TWICE A DAY OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. HOWEVER MANY CARS IT PERHAPS. YEAH, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, THAT THAT'S THE MINDSET THAT THAT GOES THROUGH. UM, AS FAR AS THE, IS THE POINT OF QUESTION, POINT OF FACT FOR STAFF, IS THERE ANYTHING THE APPLICANT CAN DO IN TERMS OF TRAFFIC, LIGHTING OR TURN SIGNALS, OR DOES THAT HAVE TO BE VDOT AND THAT BE THE YEARS LONG PROCESS? UM, MADAM CHAIR, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT AT THIS POINT IN THE PROCEEDINGS? WELL, JUST, I THINK WE'RE, I THINK WE'RE PAST GIVING ENOUGH INFORMATION TO DECIDE HOW TO VOTE ON THIS MOTION. I THINK WE'RE PAST THE APPLICANT OFFERING ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. YEAH. NOW, WELL, I I WASN'T, NO, I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE APPLICANT. JUST ASKING A QUESTION OF FACT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM THAT HAS BEEN ARTICULATED. IS THAT A PROBLEM THAT CAN ONLY BE SOLVED BY VO, UH, OR NO, NO APPLICANT, NO MATTER WHO IT MIGHT BE, CAN SOLVE THAT PROBLEM, IS MY QUESTION. THAT IS A TOWN MAINTAINED ROAD. SO WE WOULD, WE HOLD IT TO VDOT STANDARDS, BUT ULTIMATELY IT'S THE TOWN'S DECISION. OKAY. UM, AND SOMETIMES WHAT WE DO IS LIKE VDOT WILL LOOK AT IT AND GIVE US FEEDBACK, BUT ULTIMATELY IT'S THE TOWN'S ROAD. IT'S THE TOWN THAT DECIDES WHERE TO PUT A TRAFFIC LIGHT, FOR INSTANCE, NOT VDOT. CORRECT. I MEAN, WE, WE USE THEIR STANDARDS, BUT RIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. YEP. WELL, WE HAVE THE MOTION IN A SECOND. ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION WE'VE LAID OUT THE TOTAL IM POSSIBILITY HERE. , I MIGHT AS WELL CALL THE QUESTION. LISTEN. OKAY. CALL ME LAST PLEASE. MS. BUTTER . COMMISSIONER BROOKS? YES. VICE CHAIRMAN NEIL? NO. COMMISSIONER MARRAZZO? YES. CHAIRMAN MARNER? NO, I, I JUST DON'T WANNA KILL IT. TOTALLY. I JUST DON'T WANNA KILL IT. TOTALLY. SO, NO. SO THAT'S A TIE VOTE. THE, SO THE AMENDMENT, BUT FAILS BACK TO THE ORIGINAL MOTION. OKAY. IS NOW IS BACK ON THE FLOOR BACK TO WHERE WE BEGAN. SO NOW WE HAVE THE OPTION OF VOTING DOWN THE MOTION TO SEND A TOWN COUNCIL ADDING CONDITIONS OR ACCEPTED THE MOTION OR ADDING CONDITIONS AND ACCEPTANCE TO APPROVE. BUT WE CAN ADD CONDITIONS. YES. OH, CAN WE CAN BE AMENDED TO ADD CONDITIONS. WOULD THAT, WOULD THERE BE ANY CONDITIONS THAT ANYBODY MIGHT LIKE TO ADD TO MAKE IT MORE PALATABLE? I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, TRYING TO SPECIFY SPECIFIC WORDING TO A CONDITION LIKE THIS, UM, WITH THE ISSUES THAT ARE, THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED. UM, I, I, I THINK THAT THE BETTER ROUTE MAY BE, AND I'M NOT PROPOSING THIS AS AMENDMENT RIGHT NOW, DISCUSSION , UH, WOULD BE TO DEFER. I MEAN, IF WE ARE NOT LOOKING TO DENY THIS OUTRIGHT, THEN, YOU KNOW, LET THE APPLICANT, UH, YOU KNOW, PULL ANOTHER OR HAVE THEM, UH, GO BACK TO VDOT, GET ANOTHER TRAFFIC STUDY, SEE WHAT THE REAL IMPACT IS GOING TO BE, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT WOULD BE DONE OR WHAT COULD BE DONE DIFFERENTLY. LET THEM BE CREATIVE AND COME BACK TO US. SO IS THAT AN AMENDMENT OR A NEW MOTION? THAT IS NOT AN AMENDMENT THAT IS A POINT OF DISCUSSION. . , OKAY. OKAY. IS, IS THAT, FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, IS THAT PLAUSIBLE TO GET VDOT TO DO A NEW STUDY WITHIN 10 YEARS? CAN YOU SPEAK INTO YOUR MIC? CHAIRMAN MARSH? SORRY, SORRY. YES. I, I COUGH SO I TEND TO PUT IT AWAY FROM MY MOUTH SO NOBODY HEARS ME COUGH. UM, I MEAN, IS THAT DOABLE FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE OR IS IT GONNA TAKE UMPTEEN YEARS FOR VDOT TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT? APPLICATIONS COME WITH VDOT STUDIES REGULARLY OR TRAFFIC STUDIES. YEAH, MAYBE, MAYBE STAFF CAN ADDRESS THAT. IS THAT, SO A TRAFFIC IMPACT ANALYSIS IS NOT REQUIRED FOR A SPECIAL USE APPLICATION. RIGHT. BUT IF WE MAKE IT A CONDITION, HOW LONG DOES IT USUALLY TAKE TO GET ONE? I DON'T THINK THEY, [00:45:01] WE CAN'T MAKE THAT A CONDI, YOU'RE SAYING WE DON'T, WE HAVEN'T, WE CAN'T MAKE THAT A CONDITION. I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S A APPROPRIATE SUBJECT FOR A CONDITION. OKAY. IF WE CAN'T MAKE A CONDITION. WELL, THE OTHER ASPECT OF THIS, WHEN IT COMES TO THE IMPACT OF THE COMMUNITY IS THE LACK OF BARRIERS, UM, BOTH ON THE WEST SIDE AND ON THE NORTH SIDE. UM, IT IS WITHIN, UM, OUR, OUR POWER AND OUR RIGHT TO HAVE CONDITIONS OR RECOMMEND CONDITIONS RATHER, THAT WOULD HAVE, UH, AT LEAST PHYSICAL BARRIERS THERE. UM, OBVIOUSLY THAT HAS NO BEARING OR IMPACT ON HOW THE NUMBER OF CARS WILL AFFECT THE ROAD, BUT I THINK IT ALSO JUST GOES TO SHOW THAT THERE'S A NUMBER OF THINGS IN HERE THAT WEREN'T CONSIDERED IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT TO THE COMMUNITY. WELL, WOULDN'T THAT BE A SITE PLAN, UH, POINT TO BRING UP WHEN WE GET TO THE SITE PLAN? YOU COULD PLACE THAT TYPE OF CONDITION ON THIS. WE COULD PUT A CONDITION ON THAT, THEN THAT WOULD BE SHOWN IN THE SITE PLAN. OKAY. THAT'S MINOR. SO AS SUCH FOR THE, THAT CONDITION, AND WE DO JUST, UM, IF WE'RE GONNA ADDRESS IT AT THIS POINT, THEN WE'D PROBABLY PICK UP THE STRIPING, THE FENCE ON THE NORTH, UM, FENCING ON THE NORTH SIDE. UM, UH, I KNOW IT CALLS TO THE PRIVATE DRIVEWAY IN THERE, BUT MAKE THAT A STIPULATION TO MAKE SURE THAT'S DONE AND THE, UM, EXTEND THE ROAD TO THE PROPERTY LINE. POSSIBLY. IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT REQUIRING STRIPING ON A PUBLIC ROAD, THAT'S, WE CAN'T DO, YOU CANNOT REQUIRE, OKAY. THAT WAS, I THOUGHT THAT WAS PART OF THE DISCUSSION WE HAD THAT IT COULD BE DONE. OKAY, THEN NEVERMIND LEFT STRIKE. THAT'S TRUE. THAT'S NOT ON THE PROPERTY. THAT MAKES SENSE. SO, BUT AS FAR AS THE FENCE AND THE UPGRADE TO THE DRIVEWAY, THE DRIVEWAY AND THE EXTENSION OF THE ROAD TO THE PROPERTY LINE, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? SO, SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE THINKING AT A CONDITION OF BARRIERS. YOU'RE THINKING ADD WHAT CONDITIONS TO, TO MODIFY THE ORIGINAL ONE BY ADDING THE NORTH, ADDING THE A FENCING OR APPROPRIATE BARRIERS TO THE NORTH WITHIN, WITHIN THE CODES MM-HMM . UM, UPGRADE TO THE PRIVATE DRIVEWAY TO PUT THAT INTO THE CONDITIONS THAT ADJACENT AND EXTEND ROAD TO THE PROPERTY LINE. THAT WAY IT WOULDN'T, UH, FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, THAT DOESN'T BECOME AN ISSUE. IN OTHER WORDS, JUST INSTEAD OF THE DEAD END CIRCLE THERE JUST HAVE A DEAD END. IT END. INSTEAD OF GOING TO THE, THE ROUNDABOUT LIKE THING THEY HAVE THERE, CUL-DE-SAC COULD JUST GO UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE SO THAT ANOTHER ROAD COULD JOIN IT AT SOME POINT. THE POINT, AT SOME POINT THAT WOULD OKAY. WHICH WOULD CERTAINLY ADD TO THE TRAFFIC PROGRAM, WHICH WOULD YEAH. POTENTIALLY BY THEN HOPEFULLY HAVE A BEAT UP. BUT I, I, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO TRY TO ADD THOSE AT THIS POINT OR NOT. I MEAN, WOULD YOU BE AGAINST DEFERRING IT AND LETTING THEM COME BACK TO US WITH A BETTER APPLICATION THAN WHAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US? NO, I'D BE IN DEFERRING IT. I I WE CAN, WE WE CAN TABLE OR DEFER. CORRECT. THE COMMISSION CAN DEFER ACTION. BUT A A AMENDING THE APPLICATION AT THIS POINT I DON'T THINK IS AN OPTION. OKAY. AND AT THIS POINT, WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO, UH, HAVE THE ANYBODY ELSE SPEAK. RIGHT. WE CAN'T HAVE THE APPLICANT'S ADDRESS AT THIS POINT. SO WE HAVE TO ON OUR OWN GUYS. SO DEFERRING, DEFERRING ISN'T GONNA BIAS US ANYTHING IS WHAT I'M HEARING HERE. THAT'S, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT THAT SOUNDS LIKE. YEAH. SO, UM, SURE. SO, UM, WHY DON'T I JUST TRY TO DO THIS MOTION. WE'LL VOTE ON IT. I'LL TRY TO AMEND THE MOTION IF I CAN. OH, OKAY. AND WE'LL VOTE ON IT IF THAT SOUNDS GOOD. SO TO AMEND THE ORIGINAL MOTION, I'LL SAY I MOVE THE PLANNING COMMISSION FORWARD A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL TO THE TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL USE PERMIT 24 2 40 0 6 7 3 FOR MULTIFAMILY UNIT APARTMENTS CONTAINING 36 UNITS AND THREE SEPARATE APARTMENT HOUSES CONTAIN 12 UNITS EACH WITH AN OFFICE BUILDING IN A VACANT PARCEL ON ROYAL LANE, IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP 28 17 DASH ONE DASH 14 B ONE WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT A, ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY, AN APPROPRIATE BARRIER OR FENCE BE INSTALLED TO, UM, ISOLATE THE PROPERTY FROM THE EXISTING, UM, PROPERTIES, UH, RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, UH, UPGRADE THE PRIVATE DRIVEWAY SHOWN ON THE MAP TO ENSURE THAT IT DEED DOES HAPPEN AND EXTEND THE ROAD TO THE PROPERTY LINE AND NOT JUST END AT THE, UM, CUL-DE-SAC ENDING. LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS. . SO THAT IS AN AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION. REPLACING OR AMENDING? [00:50:01] AMENDING, AMEND, AMENDING. OKAY, I'LL SECOND. SECOND. OKAY. FURTHER DISCUSSION OR ARE WE READY TO VOTE? READY TO VOTE? NO, SORRY. SORRY. OKAY. UM, OKAY. WELL, WE NEED TO CALL THE QUESTION UNFORTUNATELY. SORRY. MR. ARTS, UM, OKAY. THIS, SO WE, JUST TO BE CLEAR WHAT WE'RE VOTING ON, WE'RE VOTING TO RECOMMEND THIS TO TOWN COUNCIL WITH THESE CONDITIONS. THAT ON THE TABLE, THAT IS THE NAME ON THE TABLE. OKAY. THE VOTE. MS. POTTER, CAN YOU CALL THE ROLL CHAIRMAN MARNER? YES. COMMISSIONER BROOKS? YES. VICE CHAIRMAN NEIL? YES. COMMISSIONER MARRAZZO? NO. OKAY. THE MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESCRIPTION. AND, AND JUST TO REMIND THE PUBLIC, IT'S NOT THE END OF THE ROAD ON THIS, THERE IS RECOMMENDED TO THE TOWN COUNCIL. AS YOU KNOW, THE PLANNING COMMISSION ONLY HAS AUTHORITY TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS. THE TOWN COUNCIL MAKES THE DECISIONS, SO CONCERNS CAN ALWAYS BE EXPRESSED TO THE TOWN COUNCIL BEFORE THEY TAKE ACTION. TIME LIMIT THERE TOO. YEAH, THEY SURE DO. , SORRY, , MAKE, MAKE YOUR POINTS, BULLET POINTS. YES. OKAY. AND WE'RE READY TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM NUMBER 2 4 0 0 6 8 7. UH, MR. WARE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO, UH, UH, GIVE US A REPORT PLEASE? APPLICATION 24 0 0 6 87 IS A REZONING APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY SKYLINE REALTY INVESTMENTS, LLC REQUESTING AMENDMENT TO THE ZONING MAP TO RECLASSIFY ADDRESS, 10 30 44, 52 60, AND A VACANT LOT ON WEST STRASBURG ROAD IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP 28 12 SECTION THREE PARCELS 22, 26, 27, A 31, C 31, AND 23 FROM C ONE COMMUNITY BUSINESS DISTRICT TO R THREE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT. UH, YOU'RE PROBABLY QUITE FAMILIAR WITH THIS AREA, THE AREA OUTLINE THERE YOU CAN SEE, UH, THERE IS ONE R THREE RESIDENTIAL LOT, UH, TO THE LEFT SIDE. YOU'LL HAVE TWO LOTS TO THE WEST OF THAT. AND THE REMAINING FOUR CURRENT LOTS TO THE RIGHT, JUST THOSE AREAS OUTLINED THERE RUN UNDER CONSIDERATION FOR REZONING. UH, THAT'S THE PROPERTY THERE ON WEST STRASSBURG ROAD. WE DISCUSSED THIS AT NUMEROUS WORK SESSIONS. UH, THE PROPERTY THERE, FRONTS ON THE ROAD THERE, THERE'S A HAMMERHEAD AT THE END OF THAT. WE HAD DISCUSSIONS ABOUT COMMERCIAL, UH, ZONING THERE AND ACTIVITIES FOR BUSINESSES. UH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION REVIEWED THIS, UH, SEVERAL MONTHS AGO AT WORK SESSIONS, UM, AND DISCUSSED AND YOU DID VOTE ON AMENDMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UH, TO AMEND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. ACTION HAS NOT TAKEN PLACE BY TOWN COUNCIL ON THAT AMENDMENT THAT IS SCHEDULED FOR JANUARY THE 27TH. JUST TO MAKE THAT CLEAR, UH, THERE IS, UH, THE PLAT PROVIDED, UH, FROM THE APPLICANT WITH THE LOTS, THE CURRENT LOTS AND A RENDERING OF WHAT THEIR INTENTIONS TO DO THERE. IT LOOKS LIKE EIGHT BLOCKS OF, UH, TOWNHOMES TOTALING 24 TOWNHOMES IN THAT STRETCH WOULD BE THE INTENDED FUTURE USE OF THE LOTS WITH THE R THREE ZONING. UH, ANY QUESTIONS, UH, FOR THE REZONING? UH, THE, UH, APPLICANT DID NOT OFFER ANY PROFFERS FOR THE REZONING. UH, JUST A QUICK QUESTION AS A POINT OF CLARITY IN LOOKING AT THIS. IT SEEMS LIKE THESE PARCELS ARE OWNED BY VARYING GROUPS INCLUDING SKYLINE REALTY, UM, BUT THEY ARE REPRESENTING THE OTHER OWNERS IN THE REZONING, OR, UM, HOW IS THAT APPLIED HERE? THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING, YES. OKAY. [00:55:12] PLEASE COME FORWARD. I'M KIMBERLY KIMBERLY EMERSON, ATTORNEY FOR THE APPLICANT, AND WE HAVE MR. BROGAN WHO, UH, DREW THE RENDERINGS FOR THE PROJECT. UH, I WANTED TO ANSWER THE QUESTION REGARDING WHO OWNS THE PARCELS, SKYLINE REALTY INVESTMENTS HAS CLOSED ON THE PURCHASE OF ALL OF THE PARCELS, WHICH WITH THE EXCEPTION OF TWO OF THE PARCELS, AND THEY SHOULD BE CLOSING WITHIN THE NEXT ONE TO TWO WEEKS. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY OTHER QUESTION. THANK YOU. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY. OKAY. CHAIR IS OPEN FOR A MOTION. OH, GOLLY. YES. BUT YES. AND NOBODY SIGNED, NOBODY HAD SIGNED UP FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING, BUT I WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING IF ANYBODY WISHES TO SIGN UP, COME AND SIGN YOUR NAME AND COME FORWARD. NOBODY RISES FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING. I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. NOW WE CAN HAVE A MOTION DISCUSSION. I MOVE, UH, THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, DEFER ANY DECISION UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT THE TOWN COUNCIL APPROVE OR DENY THE AMENDMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED REGARDING, UH, THE FUTURE OF THESE PARCELS. IS THERE A SECOND TO THAT MOTION? IF I MAY JUST JUMP IN FOR CLARIFICATION? UM, MY PREFERENCE IS TO POSTPONE ACTION AND, AND PROVIDE A DATE CERTAIN. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM, IN THAT CASE, I'LL REPLACE, UH, I WOULD MOVE THAT THE, THE PLANNING COMMISSION. OH, SHOOT. NO DELAY. ACTION, POSTPONE ACTION. POSTPONE POSTPONE POSTPONE ACTION. UM, ON AN APPROVE OR DENIAL OF THIS, UM, UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE TOWN COUNCIL APPROVE OR DENY, WHICH IS PLANNED FOR MEETING OF THEIR MEETING OF THE 27TH, WHICH WOULD THEN BE BACK BEFORE US IN OUR MEETING IN FEBRUARY. I DON'T RECALL THE EXACT DATE, UNFORTUNATELY, THE 19TH, IT'S A BIT MESSY. I'M CAN REWRITE IT AND REWORD IT IF WE NEED TO. AGAIN, IS THERE A SECOND? THE DATE OF THAT WOULD BE FEBRUARY 19TH. OKAY. UM, WE CAN'T EVEN ASK YOU WHAT'S IN, WHAT YOU'RE THINKING UNTIL WE GET A SECOND. I, I'LL I'LL SECOND. WILL YOU A SECOND THIS WE HAVE, YEAH. SO WE HAVE A DISCUSSION. OKAY. OKAY. WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR THINKING THERE, MS. MARZO? SO, UM, WHEN IT COMES TO A SWEEPING CHANGE LIKE THIS, UH, GIVEN THAT THERE IS A IMMEDIATELY RELEVANT, UH, DECISION BEFORE TOWN COUNCIL THAT WOULD IMPACT A DECISION LIKE THIS, UH, I THINK IT WOULD BE PRUDENT TO WAIT UNTIL THEY DECIDE. AND I DON'T THINK THAT A MONTH, UH, IS AN UNREASONABLE ASK. I KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE REZONED CERTAIN, UH, PARTS OF THIS BEFORE, BUT TO DO A SWEEPING THING IS A BIT DIFFERENT IN TERMS OF THE LEVEL THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR. AND WHAT IF THE COUNCIL THEN DECIDES THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO APPROVE THE CHANGE TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN? THEN WE'VE, YOU KNOW, FORWARDED THEM RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE SOMETHING THAT VIOLATES IT, UM, TO A MUCH HIGHER DEGREE THAN ANYTHING THAT WE'VE SEEN BEFORE IN RELATION TO THIS BLOCK, AS IT WERE. UM, SO I JUST THINK THAT IT'D BE GOOD AND PRUDENT TO JUST WAIT, SEE WHAT THEY DO, AND THEN REVISIT, UM, ON THE FACE. I DON'T SEE ANY ISSUE WITH IT. RIGHT. BUT IT'S JUST, UM, AS, AS A FORMER MEMBER, UH, A FISH MEMBER USED TO SAY, OR WAS SAYING IN REGARDS TO THIS, LET'S NOT PUT THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE. AND GIVEN THAT BOTH ENTITIES ARE IN VERY CLOSE PROXIMITY, UM, I I THINK IT SHOULD BE GOOD TO WAIT. ONE QUESTION IS, COULD IT BE WORDED IN SUCH A WAY AS A, UM, APPROVE, SUPPOSE IT WAS APPROVED WITH CONDITION OF THE TOWN COUNCIL'S NEXT, UM, MEETING, APPROVING IT. UH, THIS IS A REZONING. THERE ARE NO CONDITIONS. YOU DON'T, YOU DON'T PLACE NO CONDITIONS. OKAY. NO, THAT ANSWERS THAT DOWN. MR. BROOKS, DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION? I AGREE WITH MUCH OF WHAT MS. MARRAZZO IS SAYING, HOWEVER, LOOKING AT THE MAP THERE, IT'S SURROUNDED BY RESIDENTIAL R TWO R THREE. UM, AND I THINK THAT THE [01:00:01] WAY IT APPEARS ANYWAY, THE WAY IT'S MOVING IS IT'S GOING TO BE PURELY RESIDENTIAL FOR THE MANY REASONS THAT WE DISCUSSED IN THE MANY WORK SESSIONS THAT WE'VE HAD OVER THE PAST FEW MONTHS ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC AREA OR, UH, ADJACENT AREAS. AT LEAST I THINK THAT IT'S GOING THAT WAY. I DO AGREE THAT, UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S PREMATURE TO DO, UH, TO RECOMMENDED REZONING WITHOUT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY INDICATION THAT IT WOULD BE, UM, REJECTED. YEAH, YOU SAY SO, AND BEING AT TOWN COUNCIL MEETINGS AND LISTENING THIS TOPIC, DISCUSSING THE EARLIER ONES, THEY, THEY WERE FULLY SUPPORTIVE OF, OF THIS REZONING TO THE, UM, R THREE AND, UH, AND FULL IN THE KNOWLEDGE THAT IT WAS EVENTUALLY TO BE DEVELOPED IN SOME SUCH A WAYS SIMILAR TO THIS. SO I'M SAYING I I APPRECIATE YOUR POINT, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WOULD REALLY IMPACT, UM, THAT IT'S GOING TO IMPACT THE WAY THAT IT POTENTIALLY MAY. IN A PERFECT WORLD, THE APPLICATIONS WOULD'VE BEEN SEPARATED, SEPARATED A LITTLE BIT MORE. AND THERE IS ALSO, OF COURSE, THE ASPECT THAT EVEN IN US APPROVING THIS NOW, THE TOWN COUNCIL HAVE ALREADY APPROVED OR DENIED THEIR SIDE OF THINGS BEFORE THIS GETS TO THEM, WHICH THEN AGAIN, HAS TO BE APPROVED OR NOT. YEAH. SO IT WILL END UP E EVENING ITSELF OUT. UM, SO I, I UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT POINT AS WELL, BUT THERE IS A MOTION IN A SECOND. SO WE HAVE TO VOTE IT, UH, OR COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATE MOTION OR COME UP WITH AN ALTERNATE ISSUE OR, OR THE MOTION COULD BE WITHDRAWN OR THE MOTION, UH, YEAH, I'LL WITHDRAWN AND I, I THINK THE SECOND NEEDS TO BE WITHDRAWN. I THINK THAT'S, I'LL WITHDRAWN. THE SECOND THING, I THINK THE MOTION IS WITHDRAWN. SECOND IS WITHDRAWN. THE CHAIR CAN ENTERTAIN ANOTHER MOTION. THE MOTION'S, THE ORIGINAL MOTION'S. NOW ON THE FLOOR, THERE WAS NO, OH, THAT, I'M SORRY. MOTION. I'M SORRY. MY APOLOGIES. THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL MOTION. YEAH, SHE JUMPED THE GUN ON YOU. . I'LL, I'LL GO AND DO THIS. I, OKAY. SAY I MOVE THE PLANNING COMMISSION FORWARD. A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL TO THE FRONT ROYAL TOWN COUNCIL FOR REZONING APPLICATION NUMBER 2 4 0 6 8 7 TO RECLASSIFY ADDRESSES 10 30 44 52 60 IN A VACANT LOT ON WEST STRASBURG ROAD, IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP 20 A 12 SECTION THREE PARCELS 22 26, 27, A 31 C 31 AT 23 FROM C ONE COMMUNITY BUSINESS DISTRICT DISTRICT TO R THREE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT. WHAT A MOUTHFUL. . IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND DISCUSSION. DO WE NEED TO DISCUSS THIS? NO, THIS IS, THIS IS ALL, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, AND THIS IS TOTALLY MAKES SENSE WHERE THIS IS GOING. UH, MS. POTTER, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. COMMISSIONER MARRAZZO? YES. CHAIRMAN MARNER? YES. COMMISSIONER BROOKS? YES. VICE CHAIRMAN NEIL? YES. THE MOTION CARRIES. OKAY, JIM, TO GO. OKAY. OLD [VII. OLD BUSINESS ] BUSINESS, UH, 2 4 0 0 4 2 1. PRELIMINARY PLAN, APPROVAL FOR MAJOR SUBDIVISION SUBMITTED BY ALI BALU. UH, MS. UH, MR. WARE, DO YOU WISH TO GIVE US ANY INFORMATION ON THIS PLEASE? APPLICATION 24 0 0 4 21 IS A REQUEST FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAN APPROVAL FOR MAJOR SUBDIVISION. IT IS, UH, CONTAINING NINE LOTS AND 16 DWELLING UNITS LOCATED AT 3 3 6 WEST ROSEBURG ROAD, IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP NUMBER 20 A 11, SECTION FOUR PARCEL 23 B. THE PROPERTY IS ZONED R TWO RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT. SO THESE, THIS, UH, PRELIMINARY PLAN FOR THIS TYPE OF SUBDIVISION OR HOUSING IS BY RIGHT, UH, THERE'S THE ARROW VIEW OF THE, UH, CURRENT PROPERTY OUTLINED THERE OFF FOREST HILL DRIVE, ANOTHER VIEW WITHOUT THE, UH, UH, SATELLITE IMAGERY OFF OF FOREST HILL DRIVE. AND YOU SEE PART OF THE PROPERTY DOES, UH, A BUT WE WEST STRASBURG ROAD, BUT THAT WILL NOT BE THE ACCESS INTO THIS SUBDIVISION. UH, THEY DID SUBMIT A, A PRELIMINARY PLAN, UH, WE DISCUSSED THIS AT THE WORK SESSION, BROUGHT THAT UP WITH THE CONDITIONS OF TOWN CODE FOR THE PRELIMINARY PLAN, AND THE APPLICANT AND THEIR ENGINEER MET ALL THE CONDITIONS OF TOWN CODE FOR THE SUBMITTAL OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAN. WE CAN GO THROUGH A LITTLE BIT OF THIS. UH, JUST KEEP IN MIND THAT THE PRELIMINARY PLAN UNDER [01:05:01] 1 48 3 10 DG OF TOWN CODE, THE PRELIMINARY PLAN DOES NOT AUTHORIZE CONSTRUCTION OF IMPROVEMENTS WITHIN THE SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN. 1 48. THREE 10 DH. ONCE A PRELIMINARY PLAN IS APPROVED, IT SHALL BE VALID FOR A PERIOD OF FIVE YEARS. PROVIDED THAT THE SUBDIVIDED SUBMITS A FINAL SUBDIVISION PLAQUE WITHIN ONE YEAR, 1 48 3 15, THE APPLICANT SHALL NOT HAVE MORE THAN 36 MONTHS AFTER RECEIVING FINAL NOTIFICATION OF APPROVAL OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAN TO FILE WITH THE TOWN. AN APPLICATION FOR MAJOR SUBDIVISION FAILURE TO DO SO, MAKES THE PRELIMINARY PLAN APPROVAL NULL AND VOID. SO THIS IS THE FIRST STEP, UH, IN THE PROCESS FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAN. IT DOES NOT AUTHORIZE CONSTRUCTION. UH, SO THERE'S THE EXISTING, UH, PARCEL WAY IT LOOKS THERE OFF FOREST HILL DRIVE. THEY'LL DEMO PART OF THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY IN THE STRUCTURES. IT'S THERE. UH, THEY ARE PROPOSED, UH, PROPOSING NINE LOTS. EIGHT OF THOSE WILL BE RESIDENTIAL. THE REMAINING LOT WILL BE UNDER STORMWATER MANAGEMENT. UH, THERE'S THE LAYOUT. THEY WILL BE DUPLEX, UH, HOUSING, WHICH IS BY, RIGHT. UH, SO YOU HAVE THE EIGHT LOTS WITH THE, UH, UH, DUPLEX LOTS THERE AND THERE AT THE UPPER NORTHWEST. UH, AS THE, AS YOU LOOK ON THE SCREEN IS THE IN-GROUND STORMWATER MANAGEMENT FACILITY. UH, THERE'S A LOTS WITH THE GRADING ON THAT. UTILITY LINES, UH, RAN IN OFF OF FOREST HILL DRIVE FOR SANITARY SEWER, STORM AND WATER LINE WOULD SERVICE THOSE THAT WOULD BE A TOWN STREET. UH, THERE'S THE GRADING PLAN AGAIN THAT WE DISCUSSED AT THE WORK SESSION, UH, FOR THE PROPERTY, UH, THE IN GROUND, UH, UH, STORM WATER MANAGEMENT FACILITY. UH, OTHER DESIGNS THERE WITH THAT, UH, THE CONNECTION WITH FOREST HILL DRIVE, UH, THE SITE LINE DISTANCE. THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT THAT. WE DID NOT HAVE THAT ADDRESSED IN THE MEANTIME ON THE QUESTION IF THERE WAS A, UH, SOMETHING LABELED INCORRECTLY, BUT THAT'LL BE PICKED UP DURING THE SITE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS. UH, TOWN STANDARDS, UH, WAS INCLUDED IN THE APPLICATION OF THE STREETS AND THE SIZE OF THE STREETS AND THE APRONS THAT ARE REQUESTED BY THE TOWN. THEY DID MEET ALL THOSE CONDITIONS OF THAT, THE DRAINAGE ISSUE, THE CALCULATE THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT, UH, FACILITY, AND A LETTER THAT THEY CANNOT ACHIEVE, UH, NEW, UH, WATER QUALITY REDUCTION BY THEIR, UH, SYSTEM THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO PURCHASE CREDITS AT A NUTRIENT BANK. THEY MADE THAT OBVIOUS IN THAT LETTER THAT, THAT THEY WOULD NOT ACHIEVE THE STORM WATER QUALITY REQUIREMENTS FROM THE VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY. UH, SO PART OF THE PROCESS, UH, WITH THIS, UH, THE MAJOR SUB DEVELOP SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN IN THE FUTURE WOULD'VE TAKEN ACCOUNT THE LOT SIZE, LOT WIDTH, LOT DEPTH SETBACKS, FRONT AND REAR, AND SUBDIVISION CHAPTER 1 48 OR THE STREET DESIGN, UH, 1 48, 8 40 OF UTILITIES SANITARY WATER AND STORMWATER MANAGEMENT STREET IMPROVEMENTS UNDER 1 48, 8 50, AND ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENTS UNDER 1 48 8 60. UH, SO PART OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAN, IT DOES HAVE EROSION AND SEDIMENT CONTROL PLAN AND A PRELIMINARY STORM WATER MANAGEMENT PLAN BECAUSE THESE ARE PRELIMINARY PLANS. WARREN COUNTY WHO ADMINISTER THE PROGRAM FOR EROSION AND SEDIMENT CONTROL. CONTROL DOES NOT MAKE COMMENTS ON PRELIMINARY PLANS, NOR DOES UH, DEQ MAKE COMMENTS ON THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT. UH, THE APPLICANT IS ENCOURAGED TO REACH OUT TO THEM, UH, IN THE PROCESS OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAN TO GET FEEDBACK, BUT THEY DO NOT REVIEW THESE PLANS. UH, IT DOES MEET TOWN CODE THAT THE INFORMATION IS THERE ONCE APPROVED BY THE PRELIMINARY PLAN. THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE THE SUBDIVISION PLAT THAT IS SUBDIVIDING THE LOTS THAT WOULD COME BACK BEFORE THIS COMMISSION IF THAT'S APPROVED. THE NEXT STEP WOULD THEN FOR THEM TO DO, WOULD TO SUBMIT THE SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT WOULD BE REVIEWED BY TOWN STAFF AGAIN OR WARREN COUNTY FOR THE EROSION AND SEDIMENT CONTROL FOR THE FIRST TIME AND DEQ FOR THE STORM WATER. THEY WOULD HAVE TO ADDRESS ALL THOSE COMMENTS. THE PLANS WOULD HAVE TO BE COMPLETE BEFORE IT IS BROUGHT BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION. SO JUST UNDERSTANDS THE PROCESS OF THE PRELIMINARY PLAN DOES NOT GIVE AUTHORIZATION FOR CONSTRUCTION. THIS IS JUST THE FIRST STEP OF PLAN APPROVAL PROCESS [01:10:01] FOR THIS TYPE OF A SUBDIVISION FOR A MAJOR SUBDIVISION. UH, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? WE WENT OVER TO WORK SESSIONS. ALL THE PART OF THE CODE THAT'S REQUIRED. THEY DID MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF TOWN CODE FOR THIS PLAN. SUBMITTAL, NO QUESTIONS. DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION? YES. MS. MARZA. UM, AND, UH, I APOLOGIZE IF WE WENT OVER THIS PREVIOUSLY, COULD YOU REMIND ME, UM, WHY IT IS THAT THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO, UM, MEET THE UH, WELL, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO BUY CREDITS AS OPPOSED TO BEING ABLE TO MEET THE CERTAIN STANDARDS WHEN IT COMES TO WATER BASED ON THE STORM WATER CALCULATIONS THEY DID AND THE BMP, WHICH THE BEST MANAGEMENT MANAGEMENT PRACTICE FOR THE TYPE OF INFILTRATION SYSTEM THAT THEY ARE PUTTING IN THE, UH, AMOUNT IMPERVIOUS SURFACE COVERAGE AREA FOR THE RUNOFF, THEIR SYSTEM WILL NOT MEET THE THRESHOLD BY THE FEDERAL OR THE STATE GOVERNMENT ON WATER QUALITY. SO THE STATE GIVES THEM AN OPTION STATEWIDE TO PURCHASE CREDITS TO OFFSET THAT FROM A NUTRIENT BANK WITHIN THE WATERSHED. SO THAT IS A STATE CODE THAT ALLOWS THEM TO DO THAT WHEN YOU CAN'T MEET THE WATER QUALITY PART OF THE CODE OF THE STATE CODE WITHIN THESE PARTICULAR PROJECTS. AND THE INABILITY TO MEET THAT PART OF CODE, UM, IS THAT BASED ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WOULD BE INSTALLED, THE SPECIFIC EQUIPMENT THAT IS BEING PROPOSED? I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS ISN'T NECESSARILY RELEVANT. IT'S MOSTLY TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WHY WHY GO ONE DIRECTION INSTEAD OF THE OTHER. IT SEEMS LIKE CLEAN WATER WOULD BE AN IMPORTANT THING. IT IS. CERTAIN SITES, DEPENDING ON THE ACREAGE AND THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE AREA IN THE DEVELOPMENT, THE BMP OR THE BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICE THEY SELECT WILL NOT ELIMINATE OR CONTROL ALL THE WATER QUALITY. OKAY. SO THE STATE HAS STEPPED IN DURING THE STORM WATER MANAGEMENT, UH, REGULATIONS IN 2014 AND THEY DO GIVE THOSE OPTIONS. MM-HMM . FOR THOSE TYPE, WHICH IS UNDER STATE CODE, THAT DOES ALLOW THEM TO PURCHASE CREDITS IN FROM A NUTRIENT BANK THAT HAS THAT WITHIN THE WATERSHED UNDER STATE CODE. SO WE CANNOT OVERRIDE STATE CODE THAT DOES GIVE THEM THE OPTION TO DO THAT. AND THAT'S WHY THEY FURNISHED THE LETTER THERE FROM THE, UH, NUTRIENT BANK THAT THEY DO HAVE AVAILABLE CREDITS FOR THEM TO PURCHASE FROM THE DEVELOPER. MM-HMM . YEAH. AND THAT WOULD BE IN PERPETUITY. OKAY. THIS, THIS WAS A DEVELOPMENT WITH THE LEFT TURN THAT YOU WERE ASKING ABOUT. DID THEY GIVE ANY MORE INFORMATION ON THAT? WE DID NOT GET ANY INFORMATION. IF IT WAS A, A MISLABELED NUMBER ON THE SITE, UH, SITE DISTANCE ON THAT INTERSECTION, THAT CAN BE ADDRESSED THE NEXT STEP DURING SITE PLAN. YEAH, I KNOW IT'S NOT RIGHT HERE. JUST WONDERING. SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH THAT? ALSO, VDOT WILL MAKE COMMENTS ON THE ROAD. SO WE'LL SEND THE, THE PLANS TO VDOT, VDOT WILL ANALYZE THE SITE DISTANCE ALSO AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS. MR. BROOKS, ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? I DO NOT. OKAY. OKAY. UH, OKAY. SINCE ALL WE'RE DOING IS PRELIMINARY PLAN APPROVAL, UM, PARDON? IS THE APPLICANT HERE DO YOU WISH TO SPEAK? OKAY. THANK YOU. AND THIS, AND THIS IS NOT A PUBLIC HEARING, SO IT'S UP TO US AND WE NO FURTHER DISCUSSION. SO DO WE HAVE A MOTION? WE, WE NEED TO MOVE? I MOVE THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION APPROVE PRELIMINARY PLAN APPROVAL. MAJOR SUBDIVISION APPLICATION NUMBER 2 4 0 0 4 2 1. SECONDED. MS. POTTER, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL CHAIRMAN MARNER? YES. VICE CHAIRMAN NEIL? YES. COMMISSIONER MARRAZZO? YES. COMMISSIONER BROOKS? YES. A MOTION PASSES. MS. KAKI, DO WE HAVE A, UH, OH LOOK, BEFORE WE GET TO YOU [VIII. COMMISSION MEMBER REPORTS ] ANY COMMISSION MEMBER REPORTS? INTERESTING. I DON'T HAVE A REPORT. I JUST WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO RECOGNIZE ALL THE TOWN STAFF FOR EVERYTHING THEY DO. UM, BASED ON THE DIRECTOR'S REPORTS, I KNOW THAT COMPARED TO LAST YEAR, IT'S DEFINITELY A LOT MORE WORK WITH THE SAME AMOUNT OF STAFF. SO I JUST WANNA SAY THAT ME PERSONALLY, I APPRECIATE THAT AND IT GOES FOR, UM, EVERYBODY ON THE STAFF, TOWN ATTORNEY AND EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS. SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YOU'RE HERE, . [IX. PLANNING DIRECTOR REPORT ] NOW, MS. KAKI, YOUR PLANNING DIRECTOR REPORT, I NEED TO MAKE SURE I GET THE RIGHT MONTH THIS TIME. BUT FOR DECEMBER, 2024, UM, WE HAD 31 NEW ZONING PERMITS, FIVE NEW DWELLING UNITS THAT WERE APPROVED AND CODE ENFORCEMENT OPENED UP NINE NEW CASES, UM, THAT BROUGHT THE TOTAL NUMBER OF NEW CASES UP TO 1 77. UM, AND THEN WE HAD, I LOST MY FOOTING HERE. WE HAD FIVE [01:15:01] NEW BUSINESS LICENSES. SO TOTALING WE HAD 129 BUSINESS LICENSES, UM, FOR 2024 AND TOTAL WALK-INS FOR THE MONTH OF DECEMBER WERE 144, MAKING THE TOTAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WALKED INTO THE DEPARTMENT FOR 2024. 2,606. UM, WE DID, IF YOU LOOK AT THE NEW DWELLINGS COMPARED TO PREVIOUS YEARS, WE CLOSED OUT THE YEAR WITH 60. SO WE ESSENTIALLY DOUBLED THE NUMBER OF DWELLING UNITS, UM, FROM PRI PREVIOUS YEARS. UM, AND THEN AS FAR AS OUR PROJECTS AND UPDATES GO, UM, WE ARE STARTING THE PROCESS TO, UH, JUST START MAKING A LIST OF, UM, WHAT CHANGES AND, UM, UM, ADJUSTMENTS WE WANT TO MAKE TO THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE. UM, SO AS WE CONTINUE MOVING THROUGH THESE ZONING, THE DRAFT ZONING ORDINANCE, THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE IS GONNA FOLLOW DIRECTLY BEHIND. AND THEN WE ARE ALSO WORKING ON BRINGING THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN BACK. I'M HOPING TO GET UPDATED NUMBERS TO YOU ALL NEXT MONTH. ANY QUESTIONS? JUST, JUST AN OBSERVATION THAT THE TOTAL NUMBER OF DUALING UNITS APPROVED LAST YEAR WAS 60 TONIGHT. I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN THAT MANY. JUST TONIGHT. WE HAVE MORE THAN 60 IN THE WORKS? YES. JUST, JUST FROM WHAT WE DID TONIGHT. YEAH. YES. OKAY. UM, DO I HEAR A MOTION TO ADJOURN? I'LL MOVE TO ADJOURN. . I'LL SECOND IT. YOU ALL BE SOCIAL. I'LL SECOND IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.