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TO WELCOME EVERYBODY[Economic Development Authority on December 2, 2024.]
TO THE DECEMBER 2ND MEETING OF THE FRONT LITTLE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY.UH, HOPE EVERYBODY HAD A GOOD THANKSGIVING.
UM, I HAD ONE PER PERSONALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY.
WE'VE BEEN IN FIVE OR SIX YEARS, SO ANYWAY.
EVERYBODY WANNA SEE RED ONE OR THE CHRISTMAS PAGET ONE? MOANA? I, I'M NOT SURE.
MOANA AND MOANA AND, UM, WICKED.
AND, AND THEN RED ONE AS WELL.
BUT, BUT ANYWAY, SO SORRY I WON'T TAKE UP ANY MORE OF YOUR TIME.
BUT ANYWAY, UH, HILLARY, WILL YOU TAKE ROLE?
CHAIRMAN AFF HERE FROM ABSENT.
SO, UH, CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE, UH, THE MINUTES AND THEN WE'LL DISCUSS ANY PROBLEMS WE HAVE WITH THEM? SO MOVED.
SHOULD I BRING UP THAT ONE POINT THE YEAH.
FOR THE RECORD CAN KEEP IT PUBLIC IN THE RECORD HERE.
UM, I WAS NOT AT, I WAS NOT AT THE LAST MEETING AND THERE'S, UH, AN APPROVAL OF MINUTES MOTION BY ME THAT COULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.
SO THAT CORRECTION IS BEING MADE.
I PAY ATTENTION WHAT THE CORRECT SHOULD, OH, UH, CORRECTION.
WAS THAT IT WAS ACTUALLY, UM, DIRECTOR SAID MOTION TO FEW MINUTES.
ANY OTHER, UH, EDITS OR CORRECTIONS YOU GUYS WANT? ALRIGHT, HEARING NONE.
UH, ALL IN FAVOR OF ADOPTING THE MINUTES AS WELL WITH THE CHANGE.
UM, SO WE'RE ON THE OLD BUSINESS.
LIZ, DID YOU SURVEY RIGHT? I'M SORRY, RICK, I'M SORRY.
DID YOU GET A MOTION TO APPROVE THOSE MINUTES? HMM? WAS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THOSE MINUTES? DID YOU CAPTURE WHO THAT WAS? NO, I DID NOT.
SO WE, SO WE DID THE MOTION BEFORE WE DID ANY DISCUSSION? DISCUSSION.
EXISTING AND THAT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT, RIGHT? IT WAS, I, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE.
I'M NOT REALLY SURE I BLACKED OUT.
UM, THANKSGIVING BRAIN
UM, I'VE GOT AN UPDATE FOR YOU.
SO THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT HELPED US OUT AND GOT OUT 954 POSTCARDS TO EXISTING BUSINESS OWNERS HERE IN FRONT ROYAL PEOPLE WHO HAVE BUSINESS LICENSES WITH THE TOWN.
UH, WE HAVE RECEIVED 32 RESPONSES SO FAR FROM THOSE POSTCARDS, WHICH IS GREAT BECAUSE THAT'S ALMOST EXACTLY HOW MANY WE HAD BEFORE.
SO WE'VE NOW DOUBLED OUR RESPONSES, WHICH IS GREAT.
AND IT FINALLY AT THE ELECTRIC BOOK.
IN THAT LITTLE NEWSPAPER THING TOO.
SO WE'VE HAD 46 SCANS OF THAT LITTLE QR CODE THAT WENT ON THE POSTCARD.
UM, AND THAT'S NOT EVEN COUNTING THE SCANS OF THE ONES THAT WENT IN THE ELECTRIC BILL INSERT AS WELL.
SO, UM, I WAS VERY PLEASED WITH THAT.
WE GOT ANOTHER ONE TODAY, SO I, I THINK JUST LET IT KEEP ROLLING.
I THINK PEOPLE ARE FINDING IT IN THE BOTTOM OF THEIR MAIL STAFF AND SAYING, OH, I GOTTA DO THAT REAL QUICK.
UM, SO YEAH, I, WE HAD A GREAT SURGE THERE IN NOVEMBER WHEN THE POSTCARDS FIRST WENT OUT.
I THINK WE'LL CONTINUE TO GET MORE.
SO I THOUGHT THAT WAS AWESOME.
I WANTED TO GET THAT UPDATE AND WE, WE SHOULD BE IN A POSITION HOPEFULLY AT OUR NEXT MEETING IN JANUARY TO LOOK AT SOME OF THIS DATA.
I THINK WE'LL HAVE A BETTER SAMPLE.
I MEAN, I KNOW WE'LL HAVE A BETTER SAMPLE SIZE TWICE AS GOOD RIGHT NOW.
SO, UH, RETAIL RECRUITMENT UPDATE.
SO THE CONTRACT HAS BEEN EXECUTED BY RETAIL STRATEGIES.
IT HAS COME BACK TO US FOR FINAL EXECUTION.
UM, I HAD A BRIEF CONVERSATION WITH OUR ACCOUNT MANAGER TODAY, I'M NOT SURE THAT'S THE CORRECT TITLE, UM, ABOUT THE TIMELINE OF WHAT'S NEXT.
AND SO WITHIN A WEEK AFTER THINGS HAVE BEEN EXECUTED ON OUR END, THAT'S WHEN THEY SCHEDULED THE KICKOFF MEETING.
AND THAT'S GENERALLY WITH THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE STAFF MEMBER FOR, FOR AN EDA MM-HMM.
UM, AND THEN THEIR RETAIL RECRUITER, THE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, AND, UM, THERE'S ANOTHER PERSON ON THEIR TEAM THAT ATTENDS THAT.
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AND THEN WITHIN THAT FIRST 30 DAYS, THEY START THE DATA DIVE.UM, BY DAY 60, THERE'S SOMEONE, AT LEAST ONE PERSON HERE IN MARKET WHO STARTS THE, UM, RETAIL ASSET AND REAL ESTATE ASSETS QUANTIFICATION.
SURVEY OR WHATEVER, OR, MM-HMM.
SO AS SOON AS WE ARE ABLE TO EXECUTE ON OUR END AND SEND IT BACK TO THEM, THEN THEY'LL SCHEDULE THAT KICKOFF CALL AND THEN THEY GO FROM THERE.
SO, ONCE AGAIN, I THINK IN JANUARY WE'LL BE ABLE TO LAY OUT THE WHOLE SCOPE MM-HMM.
SO RIGHT NOW WE'RE JUST TRYING TO DETERMINE ALL THE INPUTS THEY'RE GONNA NEED FROM US, BUT HOPEFULLY, UH, HOPEFULLY THE HOLIDAYS WON'T INTERFERE WITH SOME OF THESE KICKOFF MEETINGS.
BUT, UH, WE SHOULD HAVE A GOOD IDEA OF WHERE WE'RE AT IN JANUARY.
I'M SORRY, I WAS FOCUSED ON ANOTHER ITEM ON THE AGENDA AND I DIDN'T HEAR THE KICKOFF MEETINGS ARE INCLUDING WHO, SO THAT IS A, A QUESTION RIGHT.
WHAT ARE WHATEVER STAFF THEY ARE BRINGING TO THE MEETINGS? CORRECT.
AND WHO, AND IT WOULD BE ME FOR SURE, UHHUH JOE, AND THEN WE WOULD DECIDE WHO FROM THE TEAM HERE NEEDED TO BE ON THAT INITIAL CONVERSATION.
MATT, I WOULD HOPE THAT ONE OR TWO OF US WOULD BE INCLUDED.
UM, I KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO BE MINDFUL OF HOW MANY OF YOU MM-HMM.
UM, BECAUSE OTHERWISE THEN IT'S A, A DIFFERENT TYPE OF MEETING.
SO WHAT WE COULD DO IS, IS ONCE WE GET EVERYTHING FINALIZED IN THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO AND WE START FLUSHING OUT A SCHEDULE, WE CAN SEND THAT SCHEDULE TO THE BOARD AND SEE IF WE, YOU KNOW, WHO CAN ACCOMMODATE THOSE MEETINGS.
OUR BIGGEST, OUR BIGGEST RESTRICTION WOULD BE NO MORE THAN TWO MEMBERS.
I MEAN, I WOULD JUST SAY, I MEAN, I THINK WE ALL ARE, WELL, MOST OF US ARE GOOD WITH THIS, BUT, UM, AT SOME POINT, I, I HOPE WE, IT ISN'T ADOPTED UNTIL THE BOARD, THIS BOARD LOOKS AT WHATEVER THE PLAN IS MOVING FORWARD.
OR DOES THAT MAKE SENSE OR NO? YEAH, I AGREE.
THIS BOARD WILL BE THE DRIVING FORCE FOR THIS STUDY.
YOU GUYS WILL BE THE FIRST REVIEW.
MY, MY THOUGHT IS, IS THAT IF THERE'S ANY ACTION FROM THAT, THAT WOULD BE A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL TO IMPLEMENT WHATEVER THAT IS.
AND WE COULD CONCEIVABLY SEE POTENTIALLY CHANGING ZONING ORDINANCES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THAT MAY HELP US ATTRACT A, A BIGGER RETAILER OR, UM, EMPLOYER.
JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE GET ANOTHER CUT AT IT NOW THAT, NOW THAT WE'RE, YOU KNOW, AND WE, MEANING ALL OF US, YOU KNOW, ONE OR TWO OF US CAN BE INVOLVED OR TWO OF US, BUT ABSOLUTELY.
SO MOVING FORWARD, GOOD THINGS.
AS SOON AS WE DO, WE'LL GET 'EM OUT TO YOU GUYS.
I'M SURE IT'LL BE A CHALLENGE THIS NEXT MONTH A LITTLE BIT.
ARE WE READY TO START OUR FOIA TRAINING THEN? SO JOE FROM THE FOIA COUNCIL, UM, WE AGREED ON TIME OF 1230, SO HE SHOULD BE HERE ANY MOMENT.
SO WE GOT THROUGH HIS FIRST, WE WERE REALLY EFFICIENT TODAY.
SO, SO CAN WE GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON TO OPEN DISCUSSION
UM, ANYWAY, DID ANY OF YOU GUYS HAVE ANYTHING? SO I WAS GONNA MENTION IF WE'RE GONNA THE THIRD PARTY COMING IN AND DOING THEIR OWN RESEARCH AND EVERYTHING, SAY WE, AFTER SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR, WE'RE LIKE, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA GO IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION AND WE CUT TIES.
WILL WE BE ABLE TO KEEP, KEEP ANY OF THAT RESEARCH? OR IS THAT ANY THAT, IF WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT DISCUSSION WITH THEM, THEN THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING WE WOULD WANT TO BRING UP, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS ALL THEIR INDEPENDENT RESEARCH THEY'RE GONNA DO, IF WE'LL BE ABLE TO KEEP ANY OF THAT OR HAVE ACCESS TO THAT.
AND OUR CONTRACT SHOULD HAVE THAT IN THERE.
BUT LET ME VERIFY THAT AND TALK WITH LEGAL.
BUT WE SHOULD BE, OUR WORK PRODUCTS SHOULD BE OUR OWN.
AND, UH, IT SHOULD BE IDENTIFIED IN THE, IN THE CONTRACT.
SO I'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT JUST TO MAKE SURE IT'S NORMAL LANGUAGE WE NORMALLY HAVE.
'CAUSE WE'VE BEEN BURNED FOR THAT BEFORE PAYING FOR SOME, AND WE REALIZE THAT THE WAY THE CONTRACT WAS WRITTEN, WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY OWN THAT MATERIAL.
SO I, I'LL FOLLOW UP WITH LEGAL ON THAT.
YEAH, I KNOW THAT WE STARTED WITH OUR OWN BASE CONTRACT THAT WE WRITE.
SO I, I FEEL PRETTY CONFIDENT THAT THAT'S IN THERE, BUT I'LL FOLLOW UP.
SO JOE, UH, I WONDER IF YOU COULD, UM, WHILE WE HAVE A FEW MINUTES, WALK US THROUGH,
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UM, THE MAIN STREET TRASH, UH, PROCESS THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WE, WE WENT THROUGH, I MEAN, UM, CAN, CAN YOU WALK ME THROUGH THAT OR WOULD YOU PREFER TO DO IT AT ANOTHER MEETING? I WOULD, UH, UH, IN ALL HONESTY, UM, I WOULD PREFER DOING THAT UNTIL AFTER OUR MEETING.TONIGHT DOWN, COUNSEL WILL BE DISCUSSING THE MAIN STREET TRASH SERVICE.
COLLECTION FEE, SCHEDULE EVERYTHING TONIGHT.
UM, I MEAN, I COULD GO DOWN THE LAUNDRY LIST.
I DON'T HAVE IN FRONT OF ME TO TELL YOU WHAT WE'VE DONE SINCE JANUARY OF LAST YEAR.
NOW, SO I DON'T WANT TO GET IN FRONT OF THE COUNCIL.
THAT IS MY OWN POINT, IS THAT I WOULD RATHER DEFER UNTIL COUNSEL, IT IS MY HOPE THAT TONIGHT WE WILL HAVE SOME FURTHER DIRECTION TO MOVE FORWARD ON THE
CAN I GIVE YOU MY PERSPECTIVE? SURE.
SO, UM, AND DAVE MAY WANT TO WEIGH IN.
WHO KNOWS, WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT IT AHEAD OF TIME.
UM, SO AS A FYI, TO EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM WHO MAYBE WASN'T AROUND, WE USED TO HAVE A BIG PROBLEM ON MAIN STREET WITH APARTMENT PEOPLE SETTING THEIR GARBAGE IN BAGS OUT ON THE STREETS.
AND IT GOT RESOLVED DE EFFICIENTLY BY PROVIDING DUMPSTERS FOR THE TENANTS.
BUT IT WAS A HUGE EYESORE FOR THE COMMUNITY AT ALL TIMES OF THE YEAR BECAUSE RODENTS WOULD GET INTO IT AND ALL THAT SORT OF STUFF.
SO THAT'S HOW WE GOT DUMPSTERS AND THEY GOT PLACED AT VARIOUS LOCATIONS.
AT LEAST THAT'S MY RECOLLECTION.
IT WAS PROBABLY 20 YEARS AGO, SO IT COULD BE A LITTLE FOGGY, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THAT'S ROOTED IN, IN, UM, FAIR, UH, OBSERVATION.
UM, SO THEN WE MOVE FORWARD TO, UM, A FEW MONTHS AGO, UH, I'M ASSUMING EVERYONE WHO HAD AN ADDRESS ON MAIN STREET GOT INVITED TO AN INFORMATIONAL SESSION.
I BELIEVE THERE WERE AT LEAST TWO, MAYBE THREE AT VARIOUS TIMES OF THE DAY.
THE ONE I WENT TO WAS POORLY ATTENDED, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL THE REST WERE.
MAYBE I HOW DID YOU RECEIVE NOTIFICATION THAT I GOT IN THE MAIL? I BELIEVE.
I MEAN, I'M TALKING ABOUT THEY WERE COLLECTING INFORMATION.
I RECEIVED FOR AN INFORMATION, I GOT NOTHING.
SO, AND, AND, AND, AND, UM, AND SO I ATTENDED THAT AND I OFFERED UP SOME SUGGESTIONS AND SOME OBSERVATIONS.
I PROBABLY DIDN'T MENTION THE, THE, UM, THE, HOW WE RESOLVED THE PREVIOUS TRASH ISSUE,
UM, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS TRASH ISSUE MAYBE WASN'T AN ISSUE UNTIL THE COUNTY ADDED A SURCHARGE OR SOMETHING, OR NO, THAT'S INCORRECT.
WE STARTED THIS IN JANUARY, ACTUALLY, WE PREPPED FOR THIS.
AND WHEN I FIRST CAME BACK EARLY IN 23, RIGHT.
WE RECOGNIZED THAT OUR SOLID WASTE WAS RUNNING IN THE RED.
WE WEREN'T RECOVERING ALL THE COSTS.
SO WE STARTED, WE PUT MONEY IN THE BUDGET.
IN JANUARY, WE PULLED THE TRIGGER ON A CONSULTANT.
AND HOW MUCH WERE THEY? SO HOW, WHEN I, SORRY, HOW MUCH WERE THEY, HOW MUCH WAS, I DON'T KNOW THAT, BUT I CAN GET THAT FOR YOU.
SO, SO ANYWAY, GO AHEAD, DAVID.
WHEN I REVIEW THE FINAL FINANCIALS FOR THE TOWN, THERE IS A CLEAR DELIVERY OF PROFIT FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS.
I, I, I, I THINK THAT'S INCORRECT.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOLID, I, I DON'T KNOW.
I, I, I MEAN, SO I, I, AND I, I SPOKE TO BJ BRIEFLY ABOUT IT, UM, BECAUSE I WAS CONCERNED WHEN I HEARD THE WORD DEFICIT.
SO I LOOKED IT UP AND I COULDN'T FIND ONE.
AND THEN I COULDN'T FIND, THE GENTLEMAN ALSO PRESENTED THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO CAPITAL NEED, UM, FOR THAT AREA.
AND, AND SO WHAT I'M SEEING, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THE MONEY FLOWS 'CAUSE I WAS TOLD BY COUNCIL THAT THEY DON'T GET THAT MONEY, BUT YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE OPERATIONAL AND THEN THE MONEY GOES FROM THE ENTERPRISE TO THE GOVERNMENT FUND.
AND SO IF, IF I'M, IF I'M READING THAT CORRECTLY, YOU, YOU COULDN'T POSSIBLY GO IN, WELL, I GUESS IN A BUDGETARY SENSE YOU COULD, BUT YOU CAN'T DELIVER MONEY THAT YOU DON'T HAVE FROM ONE FUND TO ANOTHER.
SO DIDN'T THE COUNTY INCREASE THE TIPPING FEE TO THE TOWN? CORRECT.
WELL, WHAT THEY DID WAS THEY DECIDED THAT A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE TRASH NOW IS GOING TO INCUR A TIPPING FEE.
AND WE, THE TOWN WAS NOT CHARGED
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OF TIPPING FEE PREVIOUSLY.SO ORIGINALLY OUR RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS, UHHUH
AND WE STILL BELIEVE THAT WE, THAT TRUE, THAT IS TRUE COUNTY, IF YOU'RE LISTENING, WE ARE COUNTY CITIZENS INSIDE THE TOWN LIMITS.
BUT, UM, SO YOU ARE CORRECT, THAT INCREASE IN TIPPING FEES THAT WENT EFFECT TO JULY 1ST INCURRED MAYBE AN ADDITIONAL 40% INCREASE IN OUR RATES ON DAY ONE.
WITHOUT NO NOTIFICATION FROM THE COUNTY.
AND I, AND COUNTY, IF YOU'RE LISTENING, I THINK THAT'S UNFORGIVABLE.
SO, SO ANYWAY, WE WERE INVITED TO THE INFORMATION SESSION, RIGHT.
AND, AND THEY WERE COLLECTED SOME INFORMATION.
I'LL, I'LL, I MEAN, SCOTT MEYER WAS THERE WITH ME AND I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE ONE OTHER PERSON.
AND, UM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SEEMED TO COME OUT IN THAT CONVERSATION WAS THERE SEEMED TO BE, AT LEAST IN OUR LIMITED, YOU KNOW, GROUP, THERE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE GETTING FREE TRASH, WHETHER THEY WERE APARTMENT DWELLERS OR, OR MAYBE EVEN BUSINESSES OR, OR UNDER MARKET CHARGES.
YOU KNOW, LIKE, LIKE AT THE THEATER, I WAS CHARGED UNDER MARKET VALUE RATE, YOU KNOW, FOR MY DUMPSTER.
NOW, I, UM, UH, I CONSIDERED THAT I WAS ENTITLED TO THAT BECAUSE I ALLOWED THE TOWN TO PLACE A DUMPSTER ON MY PROPERTY, AND IT SERVED ABOUT 15 RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS AROUND IT, AND A COUPLE OF COMMERCIAL.
SO I FELT LIKE, ALL RIGHT, SO I'M PAYING MY 27 OR $8 A MONTH AND IT'S A TRADE, YOU KNOW? UM, BUT, BUT ANYWAY, WHEN I GOT, YOU KNOW, A LETTER AND, AND BJ AND I HAVE SINCE TALKED ABOUT IT AND WORKED IT OUT, BUT, SO THE THEATER IS NOT A $400 A MONTH CUSTOMER IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.
MATTER OF FACT, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS A $400 A MONTH CUSTOMER.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE FAIR MARKET VALUE OF WHAT, AND IT VARIES DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE DUMPSTER.
AND SO I'M JUST GONNA GO ON RECORD TO SAY, I HOPE THAT WHAT COUNCIL COMES UP WITH IS A FAIR MARKET SOLUTION, A FAIR MARKET VALUE SOLUTION FOR POORLY INVOICED.
AGAIN, IN MY OPINION, FROM THE OUTSIDE, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, LIKE THE BUSINESS LICENSE LIST THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, THE UTILITY BILL, UH, LICENSE OR IN LIST THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, THOSE ARE, AND ANY OTHER LIST THAT YOU HAVE, THAT'S HOW YOU SHOULD INVOICE, UM, IN MY OPINION.
UM, SO I WANNA INVITE EVERYBODY TO WATCH THE MEETING TONIGHT.
WE WILL GO THROUGH AN EXTENSIVE TIMELINE OF WHEN WE STARTED AND WHAT WE'VE DID.
I WILL REMIND EVERYBODY THAT WE RUN FOUR ENTERPRISE FUNDS AT NO PROFIT.
SO SOLID WASTE IS ONE OF THOSE DIVISIONS.
ALL FOUR OF THOSE ENTERPRISE FUNDS DO HAVE A TRANSFER BACK TO GENERAL FUND.
BUT THAT IS TO SUPPORT COLLECTION OF BILLS FROM OUR FINANCE, OUR LEGAL DEPARTMENT, OUR HR DEPARTMENT, MIND ME AS WELL.
SO THAT IS WHY THOSE GENERAL TRANSFERS, AND THEY'RE BASED ON, I'M NOT QUESTIONING THAT PART, JOE, I'M JUST SAYING THAT IT, IT, IT HAS HAPPENED.
SO I'M JUST SAYING THAT I, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE ISSUE WITH THE TOWN, YOU KNOW, THE WAY THAT OPERATES.
ACTUALLY, I WAS VERY IMPRESSED BY IT, AND I SPOKE TO BJ ABOUT HOW I JUST WISH THAT I COULD TRACK ALL OF MY THINGS THE WAY THAT THE GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW, OR THE TOWN IS DOING IT.
IT, IT IS, IT IS QUITE IMPRESSIVE.
I, I, I'M JUST SAYING THAT IN FACT, IT, IT APPEARS AS THOUGH THERE IS NO INTERRUPTION IN PROFIT.
I, I WILL SAY, AND I'VE TALKED TO A LOT OF BUSINESSES PERSONALLY, THAT, UM, POTENTIALLY OUR ROLLOUT IN THOSE FOUR TIERS WERE NOT AS SUCCESSFUL AS WE HAD HOPED THAT SOME PEOPLE GOT CLASSIFIED IN A WRONG TIER.
AND WE ADDRESSED THOSE INDIVIDUALLY.
UH, ACTUALLY I'VE WORKED ON ONE LAST WEEK THAT I JUST FOUND OUT.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO RESOLVE A MAJORITY OF THE ISSUES.
YOU KNOW, THE BIGGER PIECE IS, IS THE, THE HIGH END USERS, AND WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THAT? AND THE PROBLEM IS REALLY, IS THAT IT IS A SHARED DUMPSTER IN A PUBLIC AREA.
SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, COUNCIL'S GONNA HAVE A, A JOB IN FRONT OF THEM TO TAKE A LOOK AT ALL THOSE FACTS AND FIGURE OUT HOW WE KIND OF PEEL THIS ONION BACK A LITTLE BIT.
WE'VE GOT MULTIPLE RESTAURANTS ON HERE, AND SO
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THE, THE SERVICE NEED AND THE LEVEL OF SERVICE NEED HAS CHANGED.AND SO WE HAVE TO ADAPT TO THAT.
SO, SO MY, BUT MY, I, SO I'M GONNA GO BACK TO THE INFORMATIONAL MEETING, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS HANDLED REALLY WELL.
UM, BUT I, MY EXPECTATION AFTER HAVING ATTENDED THAT WAS THAT I WOULD GET A SIMILAR SORT OF INVITATION TO, TO TALK ABOUT AND PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INPUT ON THE FEE STRUCTURE THAT GOT CREATED.
BUT WE GOT SENT A LETTER IN THE MAIL WITH NO, YOU KNOW, THAT SAID, THIS IS WHAT IT IS.
AND I THINK THE TOWN WOULD'VE BEEN A LOT BETTER OFF, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD BEEN INVITED TO A ROLLOUT OF THE INCREASE.
I MEAN, YOU GUYS DID IT WITH THE UTILITIES A FEW YEARS AGO.
UM, WELL, IT'S PROBABLY A LONG TIME AGO NOW, BUT, YOU KNOW, 5, 6, 7 YEARS AGO WHEN YOU GUYS WERE GONNA DO, YOU WERE TRYING TO GET RID OF ONE OF THE EXTRA CHARGES ON THE BILLS BY INCREASING THE UTILITIES, AND YOU WERE, AND YOU WERE DOING AN EXPLANATION OF IT.
SO HOPEFULLY THE PUBLIC WOULD BE MORE ACCEPTING OF IT.
AND SO, I, I WILL OPENLY ADMIT, RICK, WE COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB AND WE'RE GONNA LEARN FROM IT AND WE'RE GONNA MOVE FORWARD.
WELL ANYWAY, SO, UM, THANKS FOR LETTING ME VENT
I MEAN, AT, AT THE, AT AT, AND I HAVE ONE AT THE THEATER, I'M GOOD WITH THE, THE RATE THAT I HAVE, IT'S SIMILAR TO THE ONE, WHAT I PAY AT THE BOWLING CENTER, WHERE I HAVE AN OUTSIDE CONTRACTOR.
AND, AND I KNOW THAT I CAN REDUCE IT IF I GET SMALLER DUMPSTERS, OR I CAN INCREASE IT IF I GET BIGGER DUMPSTERS.
UM, YOU KNOW, BUT AS YOU SAY, WHEN TRASH GETS COMMINGLED WITH RESIDENTIAL USERS, IT GETS REALLY MUDDY.
UH, YOU KNOW, BUT I, I WILL SAY THAT A POSSIBLE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO ALLOW BUSINESSES TO HAVE DUMPSTERS THAT THEY CAN LOCK UP, YOU KNOW, ON TOWN PROPERTY.
AND, AND, AND, AND BILL SEPARATELY FOR THAT, WHAT A FAIR MARKET VALUE RATE IS.
AND THEN HAVE ANOTHER DUMPSTER SOMEWHERE.
THE PROBLEM IS, IS JUST SPACE, RIGHT? YEAH.
WE'RE GONNA GIVE UP PARKING SPACES, RIGHT.
AND YOU IMAGINE, AND THEN, SO THERE, THERE, THERE'S THE, YEAH.
NO, BUT I'M JUST TELLING YOU THAT, THAT, I MEAN, I'M JUST SUGGESTING THAT THERE ARE A COUPLE OF WAYS TO RESOLVE IT.
AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GO, WELL, NOW WE REALLY NEED THE SPACE, SO WE'RE GONNA BE GOOD WITH, YOU KNOW, THIS RATE THAT WE COME UP WITH FOR, YOU KNOW, THE HIGHER USERS, IF YOU WILL.
BUT ANYWAY, ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT ISSUE? I HAVE PLENTY, BUT I'M NOT, DO YOU THINK OUR GUY OR OUR FO PERSON IS ON? YES, MA'AM.
HOW WOULD YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT DOING LIKE A BUSINESS LUNCH AND LEARN SERIES, LIKE PARTNER UP WITH MAYBE THE CHAMBER OR
I MEAN, I MEAN, SO DO YOU FEEL LIKE THAT'S RELEVANT TO WHAT YOU ALL, WHAT YOUR FIVE PILLARS OF, OF ACTIVITY ARE? BECAUSE I HAVE SOME IDEAS OF SOME TOPICS, BUT I DON'T WANNA CHASE THIS DOWN IF THAT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU GUYS WOULD BE INTERESTED IN.
AND WE WOULD JUST BE KIND OF CO-HOSTING IN NAME AND ATTENDANCE ONLY.
UM, I MEAN, SORT OF LIKE COFFEE AND CONVERSATION, KIND OF, I'M THINKING MORE LIKE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME REALLY UNIQUE, UNIQUE HIRING TOOLS OUT THERE NOW TO BE ABLE TO UTILIZE THAT I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT UNTIL I WAS AT A CONFERENCE TWO WEEKS AGO.
AND WAS LEARNING ABOUT THEM OR UTILIZING AI TO HELP WRITE BETTER JOB DESCRIPTIONS TO GET BETTER CANDIDATES, OR LIKE, DO WE HAVE ANY INTEREST IN EXPLORING TOPICS LIKE THAT? OR ANYTHING REALLY PRESENTING US PRESENTING? NO, NO.
WE FIND WE WOULD FIND A HUMAN WHO WOULD TALK ABOUT AN EXPERT OR WHO WOULD COME IN AND TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS.
AND SO WE WOULD JUST BE INVITING THE BUSINESS OWNERS OF OUR COMMUNITY TO JOIN US TO LEARN SOME MORE ABOUT SOME OF THESE TOPICS.
SO IT'D BE THE, SO WOULD BE COMMERCE, CHAMBER OF COMMERCE? MM-HMM.
MM-HMM,
I MEAN, YOU COULD HAVE, YOU COULD JUST INVITE THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
YEAH, WE WOULD INVITE THE THROUGH THE, UH, NEWSLETTER, THE DO IT QUARTERLY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WANNA HAVE THIS SEAT? YOU CAN, IT DOESN'T MATTER.
IT'S EASIER FOR EVERYBODY TO LOOK AT ME AND THE, THE SCREEN.
I JUST, I BEEN IN THE CAR FOR TWO HOURS, SO JUST CLICK.
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THE RESTROOM THEN, DON'T YOU? I, I CHECK THAT OUT.WE CAN GET STARTED IF I'M NOT INTERRUPTING Y'ALL.
I'M THE SENIOR ATTORNEY WITH THE FOIA COUNCIL.
SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS I'M ONE OF TWO PEOPLE AT THE FOIA COUNCIL.
THAT ONE HERE IN OUR, YOU'VE BEEN HERE THE LONGEST? NO, ALLEN, HE IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.
UM, HE'S BEEN THERE DOING IT 20 YEARS.
I'VE BEEN A LITTLE OVER TWO YEARS WITH THE FOIA COUNCIL.
HE WAS IN MY POSITION BEFORE HE WAS PROMOTED, AND WHICH HE DID FOR ABOUT TWO OR THREE YEARS BEFORE THEY HIRED SOMEBODY.
SO, UH, I CAME FROM TENNESSEE WHERE I PRACTICED, UH, UH, LAW THERE WITH THE, I WAS CHIEF COUNSEL OF THE STATE FIRE MARSHAL CHIEF COUNSEL FOR THE LAW ENFORCEMENT ACADEMY IN TENNESSEE.
AND SO I HAD EXPERIENCE WITH RECORDS OR PEOPLE REQUESTING PUBLIC RECORDS AND HAVING PROVIDE 'EM TO THE MEDIA AND CITIZENS AND SO FORTH.
SO, UM, I CAME FROM THAT SIDE OF IT.
I'M NOT GLAD TO BE AT THE FOIA COUNCIL.
I JUST GET TO TALK ABOUT THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION.
I HAVE NO RECORDS THAT ANYBODY WANTS.
AND IF WE DO HAVE 'EM, WE HAVE 'EM ONLINE.
BUT, UM, BUT THAT'S MY BACKGROUND.
UM, THIS SLIDE'S ON OUR WEBSITE, WHICH WE ENCOURAGE Y'ALL TO GO TO ANYTIME.
WE GOT LOTS OF THINGS WITH THESE LINKS.
UM, YOU CAN SHOOT AN EMAIL THERE OR CALL IT.
YOU'LL EITHER GET, PROBABLY GET ME THEN ALAN EMAIL.
YOU PROBABLY GET ONE OF, EITHER ONE OF US WOULD BE BOTH TO ACCESS THAT WE TRY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS DAILY OR WITHIN THE FIVE DAYS WHENEVER WE GET IT.
IF YOU ARE IN A CRUNCH AND YOU'RE ON DAY FIVE, CALL US.
IF YOU EMAIL, I MAY NOT, YOU MAY, I'LL TRY TO GET BACK TO YOU THE NEXT DAY, BUT THAT MAY BE YOUR DAY FIVE IN RESPONDING.
BUT SO ALWAYS REACH OUT TO US, LEAVE THIS MESSAGE.
UM, TODAY WE'RE GONNA COVER JUST KIND OF THE BASICS.
THIS WILL, THIS IS THE BASICS OF, UH, HALF PUBLIC RECORDS, HALF MEETINGS, WHICH SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, GOOD FOR ALL Y'ALL.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, JUST RAISE YOUR HAND WHEN YOU CAN STOP AND TALK.
AND IF YOU GET TO A POINT AND YOU'RE LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? JUST LET ME KNOW AND I'LL HOW TO GET THROUGH IT.
UM, BUT THIS IS KIND OF WHERE, BASICALLY WE DO THIS FOR LOCAL OFFICIALS BECAUSE OF THIS TIME, NEW ELECTIONS, NEW BOARD MEMBERS, EVERYTHING COMING UP.
WE DO A ALL THIS TRAINING, UH, I'M DOING IT ONLINE.
WEDNESDAY, I'LL BE DOING A WEBINAR, AND THEN WE'LL DO SOME MORE IN JANUARY IN FEBRUARY FOR PEOPLE.
BUT, UH, ON OUR WEBSITE, YOU'LL GET MORE REFERENCE 2.2 CHAPTER 3,700.
SO THAT'S KIND OF WHAT OUR AUTHORITY IS LIMITED TO THAT CHAPTER.
DISCUSSING AND TALKING ABOUT THOSE.
THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS OUTSIDE OF FOIA THAT MAY BE IN OTHER AREAS OF VIRGINIA CODE, BUT AS FAR AS VIRGINIA CODE TITLE 2.2, CHAPTER 37 THROUGH 37 15 IS THE FOIA CHAPTER.
AND I'LL USUALLY PROBABLY JUST REFER TO THE LAST NUMBERS, BUT YOU'LL SEE THAT THE FIRST PART TALKS ABOUT IS THE POLICY DEFINITIONS.
THEN IT TALKS ABOUT TRAINING REQUIREMENTS, EXEMPTION.
THEN WE GET WHAT IS PRODUCING RECORDS, WHAT ARE THE EXEMPTIONS? THERE ARE 150 APPROXIMATE EXEMPTIONS IN FOIA FOR PUBLIC RECORDS.
THEN WE GET TO THE MEETING PROVISIONS AND EXEMPTIONS THAT ARE 54, APPROXIMATELY 54, MAYBE 55 NOW EXEMPTIONS FOR WHO HAVING CLOSED MEETINGS.
AND THEN THERE'S THE REMEDIES AND PENALTIES IN THE PROCESS, SO FORTH.
SO THAT'S KIND OF JUST, IF YOU'RE NOT, YOU SEE A HYPERLINK, YOU GET TO THAT.
IF YOU GET TO OUR WEBSITE, YOU CAN CLICK, AND I'LL TAKE YOU STRAIGHT TO THE LIS WEBSITE, WHICH IS WHERE ALL THE CHAPTERS OF THE WHOLE VIRGINIA CODE IS.
BUT THE FLIGHT COUNCIL, WE'RE MEETING AGAIN, WE'RE HAVING OUR, UH, FINAL MEETING OF THIS THIS YEAR ON WEDNESDAY.
UH, WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS A, A, A WORK, UH, WORK STUDY WE'VE BE DOING ON REGARDING FEES STRUCTURE, PROPOSED LEGISLATION ABOUT HOW TO, UH, CALCULATE FEES MORE FAIRLY FOR CITIZENS AND FOR GOVERNMENT.
AND REALLY, WE WORKED, TALKED A LONG TIME AROUND THE ISSUE FOR ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE MEETINGS.
AND I THINK WE HAVE RICH, NO COMPROMISE.
AND TO TRY TO LIMIT, YOU KNOW, EXCESSIVE FEES AND SO FORTH.
BUT WE HAVE 14 MEMBERS, TWO FROM THE HOUSE OF DELEGATES, TWO FROM THE HOUSE OF THE SENATE, UH, I MEAN FROM THE SENATE.
AND THEN THE 10 MEMBERS ARE MADE OF MEDIA MEMBERS, LOCAL GOVERNMENT, ATTORNEY GENERALS, UH, AND THE CITIZEN GROUPS.
WE PUBLISH UPDATES ON THE WALLS.
WE PROVIDE OPINIONS, DO EDUCATIONS.
WE DO NOT INVESTIGATE ON ENFORCE PEOPLE A LOT OF TIMES COME TO US THINKING, I'M GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THESE PEOPLE.
I SAYS, WELL, CALL 'EM BACK AND TRY TO CLAIM NICE.
I I, UNLESS YOU WANNA GO TO COURT.
'CAUSE WE REALLY CAN'T COMPEL THEM TO COMPLY.
WE CAN'T SAY THEY'RE WRONG BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES WITH THE CUSTODIAN OF THE RECORD.
THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE LOOKING AT.
[00:30:01]
WE TRY TO WORK, ENCOURAGE, UH, TO WORK OUT THE DUTIES.THEY USUALLY ON THE PUBLIC BODY.
THERE'S FOUR PLACES IN THE CHAPTER WHERE THE DUTY'S ON THE PUBLIC BODY TO WORK WITH REQUESTER.
I KNOW THAT'S DIFFICULT SOMETIMES, BUT THAT'S KIND OF HOW THE, THE LAW WAS WRITTEN TO PUT THE ON, ON THE PUBLIC BODY, THE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS TO WORK WITH REQUESTERS.
BUT BEFORE THEY CAME ABOUT IN THE LATE SIXTIES, IT'S NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.
IT CAME OUT IN THE LATE SIXTIES IN RESPONSE TO THE VIETNAM WAR.
ALL 50 STATES HAVE ADOPTED FOIA LAWS OR SUNSHINE LAWS, THEY CALL 'EM.
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS THEIR OWN SET.
AND IN EACH INDIVIDUAL STATE HAS THEIR OWN SPECIAL PROVISIONS.
FEDERALIST PROVISIONS ARE APPLIED TO THE FEDERAL BRANCHES AND THE FEDERAL AGENCIES.
UM, THERE WILL BE SOME FEDERAL LAWS, HEALTH LAWS, HIPAA AS YOU MAY TRANSFER DOWN.
BUT THERE IS A PROVISION IN VIRGINIA FOR DIFFERENT HEALTH RECORDS.
BUT THERE IS THE FEDERAL ONES.
THERE'S A, A PROGRAM BY THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE THAT APPLIED TO THEIR FEDERAL AGENCIES, BUT IT DIDN'T FILTER DOWN TO THE STATE AGENCIES.
SO IT WAS CONFIDENTIAL FROM THE FEDERAL GO.
THE STATE FEDERAL AGENCY FROM RELEASING DID NOT APPLY TO THE STATE AGENCY FROM RELEASE IN VIRGINIA.
UM, BUT REALLY IT'S ABOUT ACCESS TO PUBLIC INFORMATION.
KNOWING HOW YOUR MONEY SPENT, THE TAXES ARE GOING TO, WE'RE BEING BOUGHT AND PAID.
ALSO VOTING TO BE DONE IN OPEN FORUM TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR VOTING ON THE RECORD.
AND IT IS, UH, BASICALLY ALLOWS ACCESS TO GOVERNMENT MEETINGS AND ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS.
WHAT IT DOES NOT PROVIDE IS IT DOES NOT PROVIDE YET THE GRANT INTERVIEWS.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.
UM, YOU CAN HELP THEM GET TO WHAT THEY WANT, BUT IT'S ABOUT INFORMATION, THE DOCUMENTS AND RECORDS.
OKAY? NOW, SOMETIMES YOU MAY HAVE TO ASK A QUESTION TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THEY WANT, WHAT THEY'RE ASKING.
BUT IT IS REALLY NOT REQUIRING YOU IS, WELL, WHY DO Y'ALL DO IT THAT WAY? THAT'S NOT A FOIA, RICHARD, IS THAT THE WAY WE DO IT? OR THAT'S WHAT ESTABLISHED OR COME TO THE PUBLIC MEETING AND TALK ABOUT OTHER PROCESSES.
BUT IT'S MORE ABOUT, I'M LOOKING FOR THIS RECORD HERE.
I NEED THIS INFORMATION THAT YOU PROVIDED.
UM, AND THAT, THE THING IS, ALL RECORDS ARE PRESUMED TO BE OPEN.
ALL MEANS ARE PRESUMED TO BE OPEN UNLESS OTHERWISE PROVIDED BY ALL.
AND YOU'LL, I'LL, I'LL REPEAT IT A COUPLE TIMES, SO YOU'LL GET IT.
BUT IT'S ABOUT NO RECORDS SHOVING WITHHOLD, UNLESS THERE'S A SPECIFIC EXEMPTION APPLIES.
I KIND ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THE FUNNEL.
YOU START WITH THE FUNNEL THAT ALL RECORDS ARE OPEN.
AND THEN WHEN YOU GET TO THE EXEMPTION, IT'S AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FUNNEL, HOW IT APPLIES TO THOSE SPECIFIC RECORDS FOR THAT SPECIFIC PROVISIONAL MEETING WHEN YOU HOLD A CLOSED MEETING.
SO, AND THAT'S GONNA BE NARROW, NARROWLY TAILORED TO JUST FOR THOSE PROVISIONS.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? OKAY.
I, I'LL TRY NOT TO GO TOO FAST.
'CAUSE I'VE HAD SOME PEOPLE SAY, WELL, CAN YOU DO IT IN ABOUT 45 MINUTES? I'M LIKE, WELL, IT'S AN HOUR AND A HALF LONG, SO I CAN DO IT REALLY FAST, BUT NOBODY WILL UNDERSTAND IT AND MAYBE NOT REMEMBER IT ALL.
SO I'M TRYING TO MAKE SURE I'M ON PACE TO KEEP YOU ENTERTAINED, BUT ALSO TO MAKE SURE I COVER EVERYTHING.
A LOT OF YOU ARE HERE PROBABLY, 'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE TRAINING EVERY TWO YEARS.
IT'S ALL NEW LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS APPOINTED THE BOARD MEMBERS REAPPOINTED.
UH, YOU HAD TO GET THE TRAINING WITHIN THE FIRST TWO MONTHS OF YOUR FIRST APPOINTMENT, THEN TWO YEARS AFTERWARDS.
TO BE FAIR, IT'S A LAW THAT REQUIRES YOU TO GET TO TRAINING EVERY TWO YEARS.
BUT THERE'S NO LAW THAT PUNISHES YOU FOR NOT GETTING IT WITHIN TWO YEARS.
BUT YOU COULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PUBLIC FOR NOT BEING COMPLIANT WITH THE LAW.
SO IF YOU'RE ELECTED OFFICIAL, YOU RUN THE RISK THERE.
BUT JUST TO LET YOU KNOW, WE DON'T KEEP THE RECORDS OF YOUR TRAINING UNLESS YOU DID OUR TRAINING.
LIKE TODAY, IF YOU SUBMIT THE NAME OF THE MEMBERS, WE CAN GIVE YOU A CERTIFICATE IF YOU WANT IT.
YOU DON'T REQUIRE TO HAVE A CERTIFICATE.
YOU'RE JUST REQUIRED TO TELL THE CLERK, I TOOK THE TRAINING ON THIS DATE FROM MR. UNDERWOOD.
HE CAME DOWN FROM THE FO COUNCIL, TALKED ABOUT LOCAL OFFICIALS, AND YOU KEEP ON THEIR RECORDS FOR FIVE YEARS AND YOU'RE GOOD.
BUT WE CAN DO IT IF YOU WANT TO, YOU CAN EMAIL.
UM, BUT TRAININGS, TO BE ADVISED, YOU HAVE TO GET TRAINING EITHER FROM OUR OFFICE OR FROM YOUR LOCAL ATTORNEY.
SO THOSE ARE THE TWO PEOPLE WHO CAN GIVE IT TO YOU.
UM, SOME TOWNS HAVE FIRED THEIR LOCAL ATTORNEYS, SO THEY DON'T HAVE NO TRAINING.
THEN WE GET TO TEACH 'EM AND BE GLAD TO DO THAT.
WE USED TO HAVE AN ONLINE TRAINING, BUT IT WAS, UH, THE RECORDING WAS NOT UP TO DATE AND HAD, WAS HAVING PROBLEMS. SO WE TAKE IT DOWN.
WE DID NOT REALIZE HOW POPULAR HAD PEOPLE BEEN LISTENING TO THAT RECORDING WAS, WE HAD NO ANTICIPATED DATE OF GETTING IT BACK UP.
BUT WE'RE GOING TO AT SOME POINT.
UH, WE DO THAT TRAINING NEXT YEAR.
SO IT'LL BE A DA COMPLIANT, CLOSED CAPTIONS AND OTHER THINGS.
BUT WE ALSO UPDATE OUR RECORDS AND UPDATE OUR, OUR DOCUMENTS.
TRY TO, EVERY YEAR, JULY 1ST, WHEN MOST OF THE BILLS GO INTO EFFECT AFTER THE SESSION, WE UPDATE ALL OUR RECORDS.
WE PROPOSED ALLEGED LEGISL SUMMARY.
SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING, IT'LL BE ONLINE.
IT'LL BE ON OUR WEBSITE AND WE'LL HAVE KEPT UP TO DATE FOR US.
UM, BUT, UH, YOU MAY FIND A COPY OF THE FOIA COUNCIL.
I'VE GOT AN EMAIL TODAY FROM A TOWN.
ARE WE REALLY SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE THEM WITH A COPY OF THE FOIA LAW? I SAID, YES, IT PROVIDES HERE THAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO READ THEM A COPY OF THE FOIL LAW.
UM, KIRK I GUESS WAS A LITTLE FLOODING A LITTLE BIT THAT THEY HADN'T DONE SO, BUT I GUESS THAT, I'M NOT SURE THERE'S A HUGE, THERE'S NOT REALLY A PUNISHMENT FOR NOT PROVIDING THEM THE TWO WEEKS, BUT JUST GET IT TO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALL YOU CAN DO
[00:35:01]
THE BEST OF.UM, BUT THERE ARE THE LAWS OUTSIDE FOIA, UM, YOU WANT TO REFER TO.
THERE'S THE SCHOOL BOARD RULES.
THERE'S THE CITY COUNCIL, TOWN COUNCIL, COUNTY COMMISSION RULES, UH, THAT APPLY TO FOIA.
THE TAX PROVISIONS RELEASE, TAX INFORMATIONS, THOSE TRUMP OR, OR WE SAY PRE, UH, SUPERSEDE, SUPERSEDE OVER FOIA.
AND SO, UM, MOST OF THE TIME, FOIA WILL DEFER TO OTHER RECORDS.
THERE'S ONE AREA IN THE CRIMINAL RECORDS THAT IT KIND OF SAYS THIS ONE STANDS KIND OF THIS ONE IS IN CHARGE.
BUT FOR MOST PARTS, UH, THESE FOIL LAWS WILL DEFER TO THESE.
UM, ANY QUESTION, THE COURTS HAVE THEIR OWN RULES TO THE COURTS.
HOW THEY PROVIDE THEIR RECORDS ARE SEPARATE FROM WHAT OTHERS CAN DO.
UM, BUT, UH, LOCAL
UM, GET TO, BUT PUBLIC RECORDS WAS MENTIONED EARLIER.
PUBLIC RECORDS FOR THE FIRST HALF OF THIS.
AND IT IS PRETTY MUCH ANY RECORDING THAT YOU'VE MADE, MICROFICHE, PHOTOGRAPHS, AUDIO, VIDEO, PAPER THAT IS IN THE TRANSACTION OF PUBLIC BUSINESS.
YOUR EMAIL, YOUR LUNCH ORDER TO YOUR FRIEND, COWORKER TO PICK UP FOR YOUR LUNCH IS NOW IN BUSINESS OF PUBLIC BUSINESS.
NOW IF YOU SIT THAT IN THE MIDDLE OF A LONG EMAIL CHAIN THAT DISCUSSING PUBLIC BUSINESS, IT SUDDENLY MAY GET CAUGHT IN THERE UNTIL YOU TAKE IT OUT.
BUT THAT IS NOT CONSIDERED A, A, A RECORD, A PUBLIC RECORD A'S YOUR PERSONAL.
UH, WE GET QUESTIONS SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, THE BOARD MEETING A BOARD MEMBER'S SITTING AROUND TAKING NOTES OF THE SPEAKER IF THEY'RE WRITING NOTES ABOUT IT.
THAT COULD BE A PUBLIC RECORD ABOUT DISCUSSION OF PUBLIC BUSINESS.
IF YOU'RE MAKING YOUR G RISK LIST OR YOUR TO-DO LIST THAT YOUR WIFE HAS YOU TODO, THAT'S NOT A PERSONAL, THAT IS A PERSONAL RECORD AND NOT A PUBLIC RECORD.
SO SOME PEOPLE JUST DRAW PICTURES OR DIAGRAM OR WHATEVER.
I GUESS THOSE COULD BE, IF IT'S OF THE SPEAKER AND THE PUBLIC BUSINESS, I GUESS IT COULD BE.
BUT IS ANY KIND OF RECORDING YOU HAVE, UM, AND THAT YOU'VE PREPARED, OWNED OR POSSESSION.
SO IT COULD BE PREPARED BY ANOTHER AGENCY.
YOU MIGHT RECEIVE IT FROM, UH, STATE DEPARTMENT PUBLIC RECORD THAT YOU'VE RECEIVED, THAT YOU'RE POSSESSING IT AND YOU GET THE REQUEST THAT Y'ALL HAVE.
YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE IT UNLESS YOU HAVE AN EXEMPTION THAT WILL PERMIT IT.
DRAFT VERSIONS ARE PUBLIC RECORDS, DRAFT MINUTES, DRAFT POLICIES.
IF YOU HAVE 'EM DRAFTED AND ALREADY TO BE USED, THEN THEY ARE, UH, SUBJECT TO FOIA.
BUT THEY'RE DRAFT FORMS. UM, I'LL KIND OF TALK HERE REAL QUICKLY, I'LL GET TO IT LATER.
BUT, UH, FOIA DOES NOT ADDRESS RECORD RETENTION.
THAT IS THE PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.
AND THAT'S HANDLED BY THE LIBRARY OF VIRGINIA.
AND THAT'S FOR THE PROPERTY AND LEGAL DIS UH, DESTRUCTION OF PUBLIC RECORDS.
I'M FAMILIAR WITH THAT BECAUSE IF YOU DO NOT FOLLOW YOUR SCHEDULE, WHEN YOU DESTROY YOUR RECORDS, ARE ABLE TO GET RID OF, CLEAR YOUR FILES SO FORTH.
IF YOU RECEIVE A FOIA REQUEST AND YOU STILL HAVE THOSE RECORDS BECAUSE YOU'RE IN POSSESSION, THEY'D BE SUBJECT TO FOIA IF YOU PROPERLY DESTROYED THEM AS YOU CAN UNDER LAW AND ACCORDANCE WITH HOW THE PROVISIONS ARE, THAT RECORD CANNOT BE FOUND.
YOU'RE NOT SUBJECT TO PROVIDE THAT.
I HAD A VERY BAD DAY ONE TIME WHEN I WAS WORKING IN TENNESSEE AND WE RECEIVED A REQUEST FOR A POLICE OFFICER'S FILE.
AND A POLICE OFFICER HAD BEEN RETIRED FOR ABOUT 30 YEARS.
BUT WE HAD RETAINED HIS FILES FOREVER BECAUSE THAT WAS OUR RETENTION SCHEDULE FOR SOME REASON.
SO MY COWORKER, WHO WAS A RETIRED POLICE OFFICER, WAS NOW A PART-TIME INVESTIGATOR FOR THE COMMISSION.
HAD TO GO DOWN IN THE BASEMENT, DIG OUT OF THE MOLDY BOX.
AND THAT'S BEEN FLOODED THROUGH A FEW TIMES TO PULL UP THE FILES.
AND WAS VERY UPSET WITH ME BECAUSE THIS ATTORNEY HAD REQUESTED.
AND I SAID, WELL, YOU HAVE TO GET IT.
HE GOES, WHY QUIT BUBBA? AND HE WAS GONNA QUIT
SO I CALLED HIS BOSS AND I SAID, DOES HE? I GO, WELL, HE QUIT ON ME, BUT HE'S GONNA GET THE RECORDS.
HE GOES, HE QUIT SOMETHING ALL THE TIME.
HE'LL BE BACK, BUT WE'LL GET THE RECORDS.
BUT AT THAT POINT, WE REALIZED WE DID NOT NEED TO HOLD ON THESE RECORDS THAT LONG CHANGE THE RETENTION TIME.
NOW, IF YOU JUST MOVE IT TO DIGITAL, YOU'RE SCANNING IT, THAT'S STILL HAVING A FILE.
YOU HAVE ACCESS TO IT, BUT PROPERLY DESTROYING YOUR RECORDS, YOU CAN, YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO PROVIDE 'EM.
SO THAT WAS, THAT'S THE WAY WE WANTED TO KEEP UP TO DATE WITH YOUR RETENTION.
AND THAT'S GONNA BE BEFORE WE MOVED, I GOT RID OF ABOUT 10 BOXES OF OLD FOIA, UH, NOTES AND SO FORTH THAT WE REMOVED BUILDING.
I HAVE NOW NO FILE CABINET AND IT HAVE IT ALL ON COMPUTER, HAVE NOTHING'S GREAT.
SO I ENCOURAGE, THAT'S A NICE PURGE.
BUT IF YOU HAVE A RECORD OF ANOTHER AGENCY AND YOU GOT IT, UNLESS THE EXEMPTION FILES USED TO GET TBI, TENNESSEE BUREAU INVESTIGATION RECORDS AND THEY HAD PROVISION THAT SAYS YOU COULDN'T SHARE THEIR RECORDS EVEN IF YOU HAD POSSESSION OF IT IN THE HEADS OF PROVISION OF THE LAW.
I'M NOT AWARE OF VIRGINIA STATE POLICE HAS SUCH PROVISION OR OTHER AGENCIES, BUT YOU HAVE A RECORD OF ANOTHER AGENCY UNLESS YOU CAN PREVENT IT BEING RELEASED.
YOU NEED TO HAVE TO, YOU MAY HAVE TO RELEASE IT, JUST TO LET YOU KNOW.
UM, FOIA IS ABOUT THE REQUEST.
WHAT IS THERE, WHAT ARE THEY ASKING? WHAT ARE THEY LOOKING FOR? UH, DO THEY WANT TO INSPECT OR COPY? IT'S THEIR CHOICE.
[00:40:01]
REQUESTERS THINK, WELL, COPIES COST SOME MONEY.I COULD COME INSPECT FOR FREE.
WELL, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.
THERE COULD BE AN INSPECTION FEE.
THE FEE FOR RESEARCHING IT, FINDING THE DOCUMENTS, REVIEWING THEM TO MAKE SURE THE EXEMPTED INFORMATION IS REDACTED OUT OF THEM FOR THEM TO LOOK AT THE REDACTED CLEAN RECORD THAT THEY'D BE ELIGIBLE TO LOOK AT.
NOW, THEY HAVEN'T PURCHASED THE PAPER COPY OF IT OR THE ELECTRONIC COPY, BUT THEY'VE DONE EVERYTHING BUT THAT.
SO THERE COULD BE A FEE OF ALL THE SEARCHING IS NOT NECESS, UH, INSPECTION IS NOT NECESSARILY FREE, BUT YOU CAN ONLY CHARGE AND WE'LL GET TO CHARGES.
WE COULD DO, BUT LIKE MOST FO EXEMPTIONS, LIKE THE 150 OF THEM, THERE ARE VERY FEW PROHIBITIONS.
MOST OF THEM ARE DISCRETIONARY WITHHOLDING THAT THE AGENCY CAN'T, THAT THE PUBLIC BODY CAN'T WITHHOLD IF THEY SO CHOOSE TO.
UM, THE PROHIBITIONS ARE THE FIRST FIVE NUMBERS OF SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER.
DRIVER'S LICENSE INFORMATION, OTHER CERTAIN STUFF YOU HAVE TO WITHHOLD.
BUT MOST OF 'EM ARE DISCRETIONARY.
UM, AND UH, LIKE I SAID, THEY GOTTA ANSWER QUESTIONS.
INFORMAL VERSUS FORMAL REQUEST.
REQUEST DOES NOT HAVE TO BE, UH, IN WRITING.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO MENTION FOIA.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO FILL OUT A FORM.
IT COULD BE AT A PUBLIC MEETING.
IT COULD BE AT PHONE, A WALK IN AND ASK FOR ASK FOR A RECORD.
JUST, JUST THE REQUEST BEING MADE.
NOW AS AN AGENCY, YOU MIGHT WANNA TRACK IT.
YOU MAY WANNA HAVE A FORM WHERE YOU FILL OUT THE FORM ON BEHALF.
THEY MAY BE TELLING YOU ORALLY, BUT YOU HAVE A RECORD YOU'RE CREATING BECAUSE EVERY RESPONSE TO ANY OF THE FIVE RESPONSES ALLOWED UNDER FOIA, FOUR OF 'EM REQUIRE TO BE WRITTEN, FORM 'EM TO RESPOND BACK.
AND THAT'S PROVIDING THEM THE RECORDS.
BUT WE, I WAS WORKING IN THE OFFICE, WE WERE HEAD OF ATTORNEY.
SHE WAS SPENDING ABOUT 35% OF HER TIME DOING FOIA REQUESTS, BUT SHE WAS ONLY WHEN WE WERE CALCULATING HER DUTIES FOR THE YEAR, WAS GIVING HER 5% OF HER TIME WAS DEDICATED TO FOIA.
WE STARTED TRACKING IT SO WE COULD SHOW THAT WHILE SHE WASN'T GETTING HER CASES, HANDLING THOSE CASES, 'CAUSE THERE'S TIMES BEING SWAMPED WITH 40, WHICH TOOK PRE PREEMINENCE BECAUSE OF THE TIMELINES.
AND SO, UH, WE WERE ABLE TO GET MORE HELP IN JUST OUR WORKLOAD.
BUT THAT WOULD BE THE ONE REASON FOR AN OFFICE TO KEEP RECORD.
BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE A REQUEST OR FILL OUT A FORM.
YOU CAN HAVE A FORM THEY WOULD LIKE TO VOLUNTARILY, THAT'S FINE.
ANY QUESTIONS THERE ABOUT THAT? MM-HMM.
IT'S OPEN TO THE CITIZENS OF THE COMMONWEALTH AND NEWSPAPER AND MAG, UH, ON TV, RADIO MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA, AS WELL AS PRINT AND JOURNALISM MEDIA.
UM, THOSE WHO HAVE RIGHTS SPECIFICALLY UNDER FOIA.
UM, NOW THE FOIA COUNCIL HAS ADOPTED THE POLICIES THAT WE TREAT OUT-OF-STATE REQUESTERS, THE SAME AS IN-STATE.
REQUESTERS BEING CLOSER TO WEST VIRGINIA.
YOU MAY RECEIVE A REQUEST FROM A MEDIA THAT BROADCASTS INTO VIRGINIA.
THEY'D HAVE FOIA RIGHTS EVEN IF THEY'RE IN WEST VIRGINIA.
BUT YOU MAY EVER GET A REQUEST FROM SOME GENTLEMAN WHO'S A BLOGGER IN HIS GRANDMOTHER'S BASEMENT.
AND SOMEWHERE IN WILLIAMS, WEST VIRGINIA IS A REALLY IMMEDIATE PERSON.
UH, I, I DON'T KNOW BEFORE HAS ADOPT A POLICY THAT YOU CAN TREAT THE OUTSTATE REQUESTERS AS THE SAME AS IN-STATE REQUESTERS.
THERE'S A US SUPREME COURT LAW THAT SAYS VIRGINIA FOS, VIRGINIA ASSISTANCE.
BUT WITH THE OUTSTATE REQUESTER, YOU CAN GET THE PAYMENTS UP FRONT, YOU CAN NEGOTIATE.
YOU'RE NOT TIED TO THE DEADLINES.
SAY THE, SAY THE GENTLEMAN IN WEST VIRGINIA'S
AND THEN YOU'RE TIED TO IT BECAUSE FOIA IS OPEN TO ALL THE CITIZENS OF THE COMMONWEALTH.
SO ALL OF US HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS TO MAKE REQUESTS WHEREVER YOU ARE NOT, IT DOESN'T DEFINE JURISDICTION OR SO FORTH.
UM, SO WE RECOMMEND TREAT OUT STATE REQUESTERS, NEGOTIATE FRONT, TAKE CARE OF YOU, GET MORE TIME.
YOU CAN GO FOR IT, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
NOW THERE IS A LAW EXCHANGE THAT IF A VICTIM, IF A CRIMINAL RECORD, IF THE VICTIMS WHO NOW RESIDE OUT STATE, THEY DO HAVE RIGHTS.
IF THEY MOVED OUTTA STATE TO THE FILE, THE CRIMINAL, THE CLOSED CRIMINAL AGAINST INVESTIGATIVE FILES.
UH, THEY, THIS IS REALLY KIND OF THE REQUIREMENTS.
THEY HAVE REASONABLE SPECIFICITY.
THEY MUST IDENTIFY THE RE RECORDS WITH REASONABLE SPECIFICITY.
UH, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WELL, I GUESS IT'S REASONABLY UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CAN REASONABLY AGREE WITH YOU.
YOU KNOW WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR WHEN I ASK IT.
UH, IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE ASKING, YOU CAN ASK THEM TO CLARIFY.
UH, YOU HAVE SOME PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE ASKING.
THEY JUST WANT ALL EMAILS BETWEEN THIS THE MAYOR AND THIS PERSON ON THIS TOPIC.
WELL, THEY CAN GO BACK FIVE YEARS.
WELL, THAT'S GONNA BE VERY EXPENSIVE.
AND THEY'VE ORDERED THE ENTIRE COW.
THEY CAN COME BACK AND MAKE AS MANY REQUESTS THEY WANT TO.
FOIA DOESN'T LIMIT HOW MANY REQUESTS YOU MAKE.
DOESN'T LIMIT MAKE THE SAME REQUEST AS LONG AS YOU DON'T WANNA PAY FOR IT.
BUT YOU MAY BE ABLE TO HELP THEM SPECIFY TO SAVE TIME AND COST TO UNDERSTAND, LET'S ORDER THE T-BONE OF THIS MEAL.
YOU CAN COME BACK WITH THE RIBS AND STUFF.
LIKE YOU CAN COME BACK WITH ORDER, YOU KNOW, DATES AND SO FORTH TO HELP 'EM.
BUT THEY JUST NEED TO BE REASONABLE SPEC SPECIFIC.
AND THEY HAD, THEY WERE GOING TO PAY FOR IT.
WE'VE HAD, UH, TOWNS WHO POST FREE DOCUMENTS ONLINE FOR THE CITIZENS TO FIND THEM.
JUST GO IT ONLINE, PRINT 'EM OUT YOURSELF.
NO, I WANNA PAY FOR YOU TO PRINT 'EM OUT FOR ME AND GIVE THEM TO ME.
AND ITS WITH THE, THE GOVERNMENT'S LIKE, WHAT DO I
[00:45:01]
DO? I'M CHARGE 'EM FOR YOUR TIME AND LABOR 'CAUSE YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO SO.BUT YOU CAN'T ASK FOR THE NAME AND LEGAL ADDRESS.
AND THAT WAS BASICALLY GOING BACK TO ARE THEY A CITIZEN? ARE THEY ALSO WHERE TO SEND THE BILL? YOU BILL, MOST REQUESTS NOWADAYS COME FROM EMAIL.
UM, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO GIVE THEIR NAMES.
THERE'S SOME, THEY'RE 5% THAT'S UP THERE THAT, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT.
DON'T WANT TO GIVE THEIR NAMES.
DON'T, DON'T WANNA BE IDENTIFIED ANYTHING.
BUT, UM, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY THEY REQUEST IT.
THE PURPOSE OF A RECORD REQUEST DOESN'T MATTER.
WE ALL HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS TO RECORDS.
UM, THIS MAY NEED TO MAKE IT THIS ONE, THIS ONE INFORMATION WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO ACCESS, BUT THEY HAVE THE CHOICE TO RECEIVE A COPY.
OKAY? UM, SO PUBLIC RECORDS HAVE RULES OF FIVE.
PUBLIC MEETINGS HAVE RULES OF THREE, RULES OF FIVE.
UH, YOU HAVE FIVE DAYS TO RESPOND TO A REQUEST FOR IN-STATE CITIZEN REQUEST.
UH, AND THE FIRST DAY IS THE DAY AFTER IT'S RECEIVED.
UM, SO YOU GET THE REQUEST, UM, TODAY COMES IN ON WEDNESDAY AT FOUR O'CLOCK, BUT YOU DON'T CHECK YOUR EMAIL UNTIL THURSDAY MORNING.
YOU REALLY DIDN'T RECEIVE THE REQUEST UNTIL THURSDAY.
THEY MAY HAVE SIGNED IT ON WEDNESDAY, BUT YOU GOT IT ON THURSDAY.
YOUR FIRST DAY TO RESPOND IS FRIDAY.
SO YOU START FRIDAY AND YOU GO, DON'T COUNT WEEKENDS, AND YOU DON'T COUNT HOLIDAYS UNTIL YOU RESPOND BUSINESS DAY.
UH, SAY OUT OF TOWN ON THURSDAY AND FRIDAY, HOPEFULLY YOU WON'T LEAVE YOUR, THE FOIA UH, EMAIL IS NOT, NOT CHECKED FOR A MONTH OR TWO.
I I'VE HAD ONE LADY ASK ME, WELL, I'M GOING OUT OF TOWN FOR TWO WEEKS.
WHAT DO I DO ABOUT THE FOIA EMAIL? I WAS LIKE, HOPEFULLY YOU HAVE SOMEBODY CHECKING IT.
SHE'S LIKE, I'M THE ONLY ONE IN THE OFFICE.
I WAS LIKE, WELL THAT'S NOT A VERY GOOD SYSTEM.
YOU SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE, THE PEOPLE GOING WITH THEIR INFORMATION AND HOLDING YOU TO THE REQUEST.
'CAUSE IF YOU DON'T RESPOND WITHIN FIVE DAYS, THAT'S, THAT'S JUST A VIOLATION OF FOIA THAT'S KIND OF WRITTEN OUT THERE.
SO YOU GOTTA GIVE SOME KIND OF RESPONSE WITHIN FIVE DAYS OF RECEIVING THE REQUEST.
IF YOU DON'T CHECK THE EMAIL REQUEST FOR TWO MONTHS OR TWO WEEKS.
AND THEN I DON'T KNOW HOW COURT'S GONNA HANDLE IT.
YOU DIDN'T PROPERLY RECEIVE IT OR WHEN YOU DID RECEIVE IT.
BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ONE THAT'S SENT, WHICH SOME REQUESTERS THINK IT'S, IT'S WHAT'S RECEIVED.
UM, USUALLY THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS.
THERE'S A PROVISION LATER IN THE SLIDE THAT ONCE YOU RECEIVE A REQUEST, THE PUBLIC BODY HAS TO NOTIFY THE REQUEST THAT THEY HAVE, THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT THEN AN ESTIMATE.
AND THAT'S YOUR RIGHT TO CHARGE FOR THE PRODUCTION OF RECORDS.
THAT'S ALSO A GOOD TIME TO PUT PUT IN.
AND SOMETIMES THAT'S A FORM LETTER PUT IN THE RESPONSE DEADLINE WHERE YOU CALCULATE THE FIVE DAYS WHERE YOU RECEIVE IT SO YOU KNOW THAT THEY KNOW CAN LOOK FOR IT.
BECAUSE WITHIN THAT FIVE DAYS THAT THEY'RE NOT LOOKING FOR OR EXPECTING IT, UM, YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO CREATE NEW RECORDS.
UH, SAY THEY WANT CERTAIN INFORMATION, UH, AND SAY YOU HAVE AN EXCEL SPREADSHEET AND YOU KEEP THIS INFORMATION IN EXCEL, BUT THEY WANT SOME KIND OF STRANGE SOFTWARE SYSTEM THAT THEY THINK YOU USE.
UM, AND YOU DON'T HAVE IT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVIDE IT IN THAT FORMAT.
YOU PROVIDE 'EM WITH THE, THE FORMAT YOU HAVE NOW, SAY THEY REQUESTED A PDF FORMAT, A PDF RECORD VERSUS AN ADOBE PDF VERSUS A WORD DOC WHERE YOU USE PDF PROBABLY IN YOUR REGULAR COURSE OF WORK BUSINESS.
YOU USE A WORD DOC, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THAT ADJUSTMENT FOR THEM BECAUSE THERE'S A PROGRAM, ASSISTIVE SOFTWARE OR MEDIUM AS THEY CALL IT THAT YOU USE IN YOUR OVER COURSE OF BUSINESS.
BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT REQUESTED MEDIUM OR FORMAT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO REQUIRE PROVIDE IT.
UM, BUT THAT'S CREATING NEW RECORD.
YOU CAN PULL OUT INFORMATION THAT'S NOT CREATING A NEW RECORD.
UH, YOU CAN ALWAYS MAKE AGREEMENTS.
A LOT OF, A LOT OF REQUESTS, LIKE I SAID, EXCEPT THAT 5% MAY GIVE YOU AN EXTRA COUPLE OF DAYS IF YOU TELL 'EM WHAT HANDS YOU ALWAYS REDUCE COSTS.
YOU'RE ABLE TO NEGOTIATE FOR THE PRODUCTION OF RECORDS UNDER FOIA.
UM, BUT THE FIVE RESPONSES HERE, FIRST ONE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE IN WRITING.
YOU JUST PROVIDE 'EM THE RECORDS.
UH, ANYTHING ELSE NEEDS TO BE IN A WRITTEN FORM.
AND THE SECOND ONE BEING WE'RE HOLDING YOUR RECORDS AND YOU NEED TO PROVIDE 'EM THE LAW OF EXEMPTION THAT REQUIRES THAT AND CALCULATE BASICALLY HOW MANY, HOW MANY PAGES OF RECORDS OR OR AMOUNT OF RECORDS YOU'RE WITHHOLDING OR TYPE OF RECORDS.
YOU GOT TELL 'EM WHAT LAW WITH ALLOWS YOU TO WITHHOLD THE PORTIONS YOU'RE WITHHOLDING AND ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU'RE WITHHOLDING THE VOLUME.
FOURTH ONE IS, LIKE I SAID, YOU PROPERLY DISPOSED OF IT OR YOU DON'T HAVE IT.
THIS IS WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE DISCIPLINE DON'T BELIEVE YOU.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO TELL.
THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT YOU DON'T HAVE THE RECORDS.
WELL, I EXPLAIN JUST 'CAUSE YOU THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE THE RECORDS DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE THE RECORDS.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT YOU SHOULD BE BE DONE IN GOVERNMENTS, BUT IT'S NOT DONE BECAUSE IT SEEM TO BE NONE NECESSARY.
THERE'S A PRESUMPTION OF GOOD FAITH EFFORT THAT IF YOU HAVE A RECORDS REQUEST THAT YOU, THE GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL WILL DO THEIR JOB, THEIR DUTY TO GO LOOK AND SEE IF THERE'S A RECORD SO FORTH.
AND SOMETIMES IT MAY BE THEY IDENTIFY THE RECORDS AS ONE THING, BUT YOU IDENTIFY IT AS SOMETHING ELSE THAT COULD MEANS IDENTIFICATION.
THAT MAY BE WHERE YOU HELP FLUSH OUT THE SPECIFIC, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE REALLY SURE YOU HAVE IT AND THEIR THING IS CALLED ONE THING, BUT IT COULD BE SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S JUST KIND WHERE YOU HAVE TO KIND OF WORK WITH THEM THAT HAD THAT, THOSE CASES GONE SUPREME COURT WHERE PEOPLE DID THAT.
UM, THEN THERE'S THE FIFTH ONE, WHICH IS ASKING FOR THE SEVEN
[00:50:01]
ADDITIONAL DAYS.NOW ALL THESE RESPONSES HAVE TO BE WITHIN THE FIVE DAYS.
ONE OF THESE RESPONSES YOU NEED TO GET MORE TIME.
YOU GOTTA GIVE 'EM, YOU TELL 'EM I NEED SEVEN ADDITIONAL DAYS TO REDUCE THE RECORDS DUE TO THE VOLUME OF THE REQUEST DUE TO CURRENT STAFF, UH, UH, STAFF TIME AND, UH, ALLOCATION OR, OR OR SO FORTH.
YOU KIND OF JUSTIFY THE REASON FOR IT.
BUT YOU GET SEVEN ADDITIONAL DAYS FOR A TOTAL OF 12 WORK DAYS.
OKAY? UM, SO THIS IS JUST TALKING ABOUT THE EXEMPTIONS.
THEY'RE NOT PROHIBITIONS, THEY'RE DISCRETIONARY.
AND IT'S THE DISCRETION OF THE CUSTODIAN.
NOT MY DISCRETION, NOT NOW'S DISCRETION.
IT'S NOT THE REQUESTER'S DISCRETION, IT'S THE CUSTODIAN'S DISCRETION.
THEY GET TO BE THE ULTIMATE ONE TO DETERMINE WHETHER TO USE EXEMPTION OR NOT.
AND, UH, BUT WHEN THEY DO USE AN EXEMPTION, YOU NEED TO HAVE IT BASED ON A LAW, BASED ON A, A, A BASIS IN THE STATUTE THAT ALLOWS YOU TO DO THAT.
EITHER AN EMPLOYEE STATUTE OR ANOTHER LAW.
OH, AND THIS PART, SO I'M SORRY, GO BACK.
I, AH, I LOOK FORWARD THREE TIMES.
SO THIS IS LIKE, IF YOU HAVE A RECORD THAT HAS INFORMATION LIKE THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS ON IT, BUT THE OTHER INFORMATION CAN BE RELEASED, YOU JUST GOTTA TAKE OUT THE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER FOR THE FIRST FIVE NUMBERS.
THEN YOU HAVE TO RELEASE THOSE UP.
SO YOU HAVE TO TIME TO GO REDACT, YOU GET, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU TAKE OUT THE INFORMATION THAT'S PROTECTED OR CONFIDENTIAL OR EXEMPTED.
UH, BUT YOU CAN RELEASE THE OTHER INFORMATION THAT NEEDS TO BE RELEASED.
UM, THERE'S A CASE, UH, UH, WHAT WAS IT AT, UH, AMERICAN TRADITIONS IN, IN, IN INCORPORATED VERSUS UVA SUPREME COURT DETERMINED THAT SEARCHING OF RECORDS INCLUDES THE REVIEWING THE REDACTION OF THE CONFIDENTIAL MATERIAL IN A RECORDS.
UM, AND THAT IS USUALLY THE MOST SIGNIFICANT CHARGE IN A FOIA REQUEST.
BUT THE KEY TO CHARGING FOR FOIA IS THAT IT'S, IT'S FOR A REASONABLE CHARGES THAT DO NOT EXCEED THE ACTUAL COST INCURRED.
SO IT HAS TO BE BASED ON THAT.
IT'S FOR IT'S NOT A REVENUE GENERATING, DOESN'T PAY FOR A NEW COPIER, NEW POSITION, NEW SCREEN.
IT JUST REIMBURSE THE PUBLIC BODY FOR THE TIME AND LABOR OF THEIR EMPLOYEE.
AND THE CITIZENS WONDER WHY THEY HAVE TO PAY TAXES TO PAY FOR CITIZENS AND THEN WHEN THEY PAY FOR FOR YOU.
AND THE ANSWER IS BECAUSE THE JOURNAL ASSEMBLY SAID THEY COULD.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHARGE, YOU CAN WAIVE IT, BUT THE JOURNAL ASSEMBLY PROVIDE YOU THE AUTHORITY TO BE ABLE TO CHARGE FOR IT.
BUT IT CAN'T BE MORE THAN ACTUAL COST TO THE PUBLIC BODY.
SO THAT'S WHAT IT'S GONNA COME DOWN TO.
YOU GOTTA KEEP TRACK OF THE LABOR AND THE LABOR COSTS NEED TO BE TO, IT'S CONSIDERED ADMINISTERIAL, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE TASK FO A RESPONSING.
SO YOU CAN'T REALLY CHARGE SUPERVISORS.
UH UH, YOU KNOW, LIKE A LOT OF TIMES THESE COLLEGES GET IN TROUBLE 'CAUSE THE PRESIDENT'S CHARGING FOR REVIEWING HIS ON THE RECORDS AND HIS FEE IS A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN HIS ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT.
HE PROBABLY COULD HAVE DONE JUST THE SAME JOB.
THE PRESIDENT SHOULDN'T REALLY BE CHARGING IT.
NOW IF IT'S HIS OWN EMAILS, POSSIBLY, BUT THERE'S OTHER RECORDS, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO CHARGE IT WHAT IS, UH, THE BEST TO MAKE IT REASONABLE AND TO REDUCE COST TO THE LOWEST POSSIBLE COST.
UM, THE SCHOOL RECORDS ARE FREE TO THE STUDENTS OR THE PARENTS.
AND, UM, WE GET A LOT OF QUESTIONS, BUT THIS IS THE FOUR THINGS.
ACCESSING, DUPLICATING, SUPPLYING, WHICH COULD BE PRINTING COSTS, ET CETERA.
DUPLICATE COSTS CAN'T CHARGE MORE THAN WHAT YOUR ACTUAL PRINTING COSTS OF YOUR PRINTING OFF THE 5 CENTS FOR BLACK AND WHITE OR 10 CENTS OR 15 CENTS OR SMALLER, WHATEVER THE CHARGE.
THAT COULD BE THE REVIEWING INCLUDES REVIEWING, REDACTING, THE SEARCHING CARD.
UM, BUT BEFORE YOU CHARGE, LIKE I MENTIONED, YOU HAVE TO TELL 'EM YOU'RE GONNA CHARGE AND THAT YOU HAVE FEES FOR 'EM.
THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE, NO IN ADVANCE.
UM, THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO REQUEST.
SO SAY THEY MAKER, I GET THIS QUESTION A LITTLE BIT AND I KNOW YOU ARE SO EXCITED RIGHT NOW, BUT IT GETS, YOU GET A REQUEST AND YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.
THEY SUBMITTED A REQUEST, YOU RECEIVED IT, YOU KNOW WHEN YOU RECEIVED IT, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HERE? SO THAT GOES ON UNTIL IT'S UNDERSTOOD WHAT THEY'VE ASKED FOR.
THAT'S WHERE THE ONE'S RECEIVED.
THEN YOU LET 'EM KNOW, THEY GET CHARGED FOR A FEE AND THEY'RE LIKE, OKAY, WELL AN ESTIMATE, A FEE, YOU CALCULATE THIS WELL TIME STOLES UNTIL YOU GIVE 'EM THE ESTIMATE.
BUT THEN THEY DON'T ACCEPT THE ESTIMATE IMMEDIATELY.
TIME HALS, WELL THEN I WILL ACCEPT THAT ESTIMATE.
AND THEN, OKAY, THEN YOU START CALCULATING THE COST.
THOSE FIVE DAYS, IT GETS, I, I GOT A CALL A DAY.
THE UNIVERSITY LADY WAS UPSET WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T RESPOND FOR PHONES.
I WAS SITTING THERE GOING THROUGH CALCULATING DAYS AND STOPPING AND, AND SO IT JUST GETS INTO A POINT WHERE WORK WITH THEM, COMMUNICATE.
IF YOU JUST DO THAT, MOST PEOPLE WILL BE OKAY.
UM, THEY JUST FAILED TO COMMUNICATE WITH HER IS WHAT IT WAS.
UH, AND THEN FAILED TO PRODUCE THE RECORDS.
THAT'S WHEN YOU GOTTA TELL ME ESTIMATE MAKING US UVA LIKE TO THIS.
ALRIGHT, IT'S A $208, BUT WE GOT FURTHER COST TO TWO BE DETERMINED.
AND SHE'S LIKE, WELL, WHAT DOES TWO BE DETERMINED? ME? YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH AND I DON'T, IS THAT $2,000?
[00:55:01]
AND I AGREE WHEN I SAY I PAY THE 208, DO YOU KEEP ME WITH THE BILL OF 2000? I WAS LIKE, YES, I UNDERSTAND.YOU MIGHT WANNA FLUSH THAT OUT A LITTLE MORE.
NOT AGREE TO SOMETHING THAT YOU, YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO AGREE TO.
BUT IF IT'S OVER $200, YOU CAN REQUEST THE PAYMENT UP TO THAT ESTIMATE.
IT'S, IF IT IS A 10,000 ESTIMATE, IT CAN BE, WE HAVE A REQUEST FOR 10,000 BUCKS.
MAKE THEM PAY THE 10,000 BEFORE YOU PRODUCE THE RECORDS.
BUT ONCE THEY MAKE THAT PAYMENT, THE CLOCK STARTS AGAIN.
SO YOU HAVE TO PRODUCE ALL THOSE RECORDS WITH THIS.
USUALLY THAT'S THE HIGHER COST.
IT'S UM, NOW IF THEY, YOU GIVE 'EM ESTIMATES $205 AND THEY HAVEN'T ACCEPTED AFTER 30 DAYS, REQUEST IS DEEMED WITHDRAWING SO THEY CAN START OVER.
IF THEY SAY IT'S 200 AND UH, YOU GIVE 'EM A QUOTE FOR $250, THEY'D BE AT $300 FOR YOU.
THEY ONLY COLLECT, YOU COLLECTED THREE, TWO $50 BEFORE YOU DO THE TRAINING.
YOU BILL 'EM FOR THE LAST $50.
THEN YOU CAN DENY ANY SUBSEQUENT REQUEST THEY MAKE.
BUT IF YOU CHARGE 'EM TWO 50 AND IT WAS 200, YOU GOTTA REFUND 'EM THE $50.
SO THAT'S JUST KIND OF WHERE IT GOES.
VIRGINIA'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
VIRGINIA ALLOWS YOU TO GET THE RECORDS THAN GET BILLED LATER.
MOST OTHER STATES WHERE I CAME FROM, WE WERE DOING A HORSE SWAP, YOU GIMME MY MONEY, I'LL GIVE YOU THE RECORD BECAUSE AT THE SAME TIME YOU WEREN'T GETTING IT UNTIL I GOT MY MONEY.
BUT NO, THIS IS THE ONLY TIME VIRGINIA CAN GET OVER THE, THE MONEY OVER BEFORE YOU PRODUCE THE RECORDS, EXCEPT THAT THEY'RE OUTTA STATE.
YOU CAN NEGOTIATE THEM TO PAY $50 BEFORE YOU PRODUCE THE RECORDS.
UM, ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? BILLS ITEMIZED.
BILLS ARE USUALLY GOOD TO HAVE.
UM, WE, THEY ASK FOR THE ESTIMATE.
THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT ARE THEY PAYING FOR THE PRINTING COSTS.
IF IT'S PRINTED ELECTRONIC COURSE, THERE'S NO REALLY COST ON ELECTRONIC SCANS, BUT IT'D BE TIME LATER.
BREAK IT DOWN HOW MUCH YOU ANTICIPATE TO BE THE PERSON.
AND THAT'S WHERE I SAW ONE TIME WE HAD A PARALEGAL CHARGING $25 FOR REVIEW.
THEN THE ATTORNEY WAS DRIVE BEHIND HER CHARGING A PARALEGALS CHARGE $25 FOR A LEGAL REVIEW AND THE ATTORNEY IS CHARGING $150 FOR A LEGAL REVIEW.
AND THEY'RE LIKE, IS THAT REAL REASONABLE? I SAID, IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT THAT WOULD BE DOUBLE BILLING YOU FOR THE SAME WORK BY THE TWO PEOPLE BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME NUMBER OF HOURS AND IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THAT MUCH.
THE ATTORNEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO EAT THOSE FEES OR NOT DONE, NOT SPEND AS MUCH TIME DOING IT WITH THE PARALEGAL.
THESE ARE SOME EXEMPTIONS, UH, FOR WITHHOLDING RECORDS, PERSONNEL RECORDS, WHICH I CAN TALK OVER FOR THE ACCOUNTING BANK INFORMATION.
THAT'S PRETTY MUCH PROHIBITION.
YOU DON'T WANNA GIVE OUT YOUR BANKING ACCOUNT INFORMATION TO PEOPLE.
PROCUREMENTS AND THE CO CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS, THOSE ARE USUALLY UNTIL THE PROCUREMENT IS AWARDED, THE CONTRACT IS AWARDED OR THE CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS SELL, PURCHASE OF PROPERTY PURCHASE IS COMPLETE.
THEN THERE'S OTHER, OTHER LEGAL AWARD PRODUCT AND ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE WORKSHOP INFORMATION.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT PUBLIC RECORDS? NO.
WHAT YOU JUST SAID ABOUT PROCUREMENT THOUGH.
SO DOES THE WHOLE THING BECOME OPEN ONCE THE CONTRACT IS AWARDED? YES.
USUALLY THAT, THAT MOST UNDER MOST OF THE PROCUREMENT PROVISIONS, YES.
IF YOU DO THE STATE PROCUREMENT MANUAL, THERE ARE SPECIFIC PROVISIONS THERE ABOUT LIKE, SAY I WAS A BIDDER AND I DIDN'T GET IT.
WHEN CAN I GET TO SEE WHAT THEY BID ON AND WHEN CAN I COMPARATIVE? YOU KNOW, KIND OF THAT THERE'S SOME PROVISIONS IN THERE SPECIFICALLY FOR THOSE TYPES OF REQUESTS.
BUT OTHERWISE, USUALLY IT DOES COME OPEN.
THE CONTRACT BECOMES PUBLIC RECORD BECAUSE THIS KIND OF SEEMS AS IS THE PUBLIC HAS THE RIGHT TO KNOW WHERE THE MONEY'S GOING.
SAME THING AS LIKE PROPERTY PURCHASES.
ONCE THEY'RE CLOSED, IT SAYS ONCE COMPLETED, WHICH WE TAKE TO BE CLOSING DATE AND THE DAYS TRANSFER OF THE PROPERTY, THOSE BECOME PUBLIC RECORDS.
IN A CLOSED MEETING, YOU CAN HAVE, YOU KNOW, CLOSED MEETINGS TO DISCUSS PURCHASE OF SALE ON, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, UH, ESTIMATE OR THE, UH, WHAT DO THEY CALL THAT? THE, UM, APPRAISAL.
DISCUSS THAT WITH HOW CLOSE IT IS, BUT NOT IF IT'S A USE OF PROPERTY.
USE OF PROPERTY IS NOT SUBJECT TO A CLOSED MEETING.
PUBLIC MEETINGS, WHICH ARE FREE.
THERE'S KIND OF, WE'RE ABOUT TO SPLIT OFF AN ADD ONE FROM ELECTRONIC MEETINGS.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THAT APPLIES TO YOU.
'CAUSE I LIKE CITY COUNCILS, TOWN COUNCILS, THEY'RE NOT USUALLY ALLOWED TO USE, UH, THE FULL ALL VIRTUAL MEETING PROCESS.
BUT I'LL COVER IT FIRST IF YOU NEED TO.
BUT, UM, BUT THE POLICY IS PRETTY MUCH ALL MEANS ARE OPEN UNLESS OTHERWISE PROVIDED.
UM, THERE WAS SOME CHANGES IN THIS BECAUSE OF A CASE, UH, A COUPLE YEARS AGO, UH, TWO YEARS AGO, YES.
UH, I THINK THAT, WAS IT FAIRFAX COUNTY? NO, IT WAS, UH, PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY HAD AN OPEN MEETING AND THE CASE WENT THROUGH.
AND SO THEY WERE DECIDING HOW DO YOU GET ME BOARD MEMBERS TO GET TOGETHER THREE, THIS DISCUSSION TRANSACTION OF PUBLIC BUSINESS.
UM, WE'LL GET TO, UM, BUT IT IS, IT APPLIES TO, WELL, THIS IS A LOT OF PEOPLE.
[01:00:01]
WOULD THIS FOIA APPLY TO OUR ENTITY OR OUR ORGANIZATION? WELL, IT APPLIES HOW IT'S LAID OUT HERE.AND THEN IT SAYS PRETTY MUCH ANY BUREAU AUTHORITY DISTRICT, POLITICAL SUBDIVISION, CITIES, TOWNS, COUNTIES, MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENTS, ANYTHING SET UP BY THEM WITH AUTHORITY TO TAKE, YOU KNOW, ACTION OR DELEGATE IT TO DEVISE THE PUBLIC BODY OR DEVISE THE PUBLIC BODY.
SO THAT'S KIND OF SUBCOMMITTEES.
UH, OR OTHER, AND THIS IS THE LAST PART THAT KIND OF CATCHES A LOT OTHER ENTITIES WHOLLY OR PRINCIPALLY SUPPORTED BY PUBLIC FUNDS, WHICH COULD BE YOUR LOCAL VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT, COULD BE YOUR LOCAL TV BASEBALL LEAGUE.
IF THEY RECEIVE COUNTY DEBT FUNDS AND THEY OPERATE, THEY MAY HAVE TO BE SUBJECT TO FOIA.
UM, WHAT IS WHOLLY OR PRINCIPALLY WE'VE DETERMINED TO BE 66.6% IS WHAT PRINCIPALLY FUNDED IS THERE ARE COURT CASES WHERE COURTS HAVE DETERMINED THAT 54% WAS PRINCIPALLY SUPPORTED.
IT KINDA DEPENDS ON WHAT THE FUNDING MECHANISM IS, HOW YOU'RE FUNDED.
IS IT APPROPRIATIONS, IS IT A GRANT? UH, COMPETITIVE CONTRACTS, SO FORTH.
OUR OPINIONS ARE BASICALLY LEGAL INTERPRETATIONS OF WHAT THE LAW PROVIDES DATING BACK TO 2000 ON OUR WEBSITE.
IF YOU'RE TIRED AND YOU HAVE INSOMNIA,
I'VE WRITTEN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, START THE LAST ONE, YOU'LL GO STRAIGHT TO SLEEP, I PROMISE YOU
BUT IT TALKS ABOUT THESE ISSUES AND YOU REALLY FIND OUT ABOUT IT.
UH, IF YOU'RE STILL CONFUSED AFTERWARDS, GIMME A CALL AND WE'LL TALK IT OUT.
WHAT IS ALL THESE DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, GET INTO THE DEPTH OF THE WEEDS, UH, FOR SOME OF THESE MEETINGS.
THEY'RE IN A CAR GOING TO A CONFERENCE.
WELL, IT'S SUSPICIOUS, BUT DISCUSSING TRANSACTING PUBLIC BUSINESS PROBABLY ARE, BUT I'M NOT IN THE CAR WITH THEM.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE A, A COURT, YOU HAVE TO GO HAVE THEM TESTIFY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE EVIDENCE, MAYBE PHONE CALLS, TRY WHATEVER, I DON'T KNOW, TEXT MESSAGES.
BUT YOU GET THREE OF YOU TOGETHER.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE ALREADY ON THE FENCE.
YOU, YOU'VE CROSSED OVER, YOU KINDA, AND YOU'RE STARTING TO GET, YOU'RE HAVING A MEETING NOW, LIKE I SAID, CROSS OVER DISCUSSION OR TRANSACTION OF A BUSINESS.
IF THREE OF YOU GO TO, IF THREE OF THE SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS END UP AT THE COUNTY COMMISSION MEETING BECAUSE THEY'RE INVITED FOR AN ISSUE AND THEY'RE SITTING THERE, ARE THEY, ARE THEY HAVING A SCHOOL BOARD MEETING? NO, THEY'RE HAVING A COUNTY COMMISSION MEETING.
THEY'RE JUST THERE PARTICIPATING.
THEY'RE NOT IN THE PANEL WORKING.
THEY'RE NOT MAYBE DISCUSSING HOW PACK THE SCHOOLS INDIVIDUALLY, BUT THEY'RE NOT WITH EACH OTHER.
CO CO CONSPIRING TOGETHER TO FIGURE IT OUT.
BUT, UM, SO THIS IS KIND OF THING IS, BUT IF YOU GET THREE TOGETHER, HAVING BREAKFAST AT THE LITTLE CAFETERIA CITIZEN, SEE THEY THINK YOU'RE MEETING, HAVING A MEETING THEY'RE GONNA FOLLOW.
THEY CAN FOLLOW A CHALLENGE TO YOU.
AND WHEN IT IS UNDER FOIA, THERE'S NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS.
IT COULD BE TWO YEARS UP TO TWO YEARS AFTER THE DONE.
WHAT HAPPENS IF A COURT FINDS THEN THAT YOU DID VIOLATE WHAT THEY DID IN THAT COURT CASE WAS NULLIFY EVERYTHING FROM THAT POINT BACK.
THEY NULLIFY WHATEVER THE DECISION WAS MADE AND THAT, HOW THAT WENT FORWARD DISRUPTED THE MEETING.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY THE ONLY ACTION YOU CAN TAKE IS NULLIFY MEETING, IF THEY HAVE IMPROPER MEETINGS, IS NULLIFY WHAT THEY DID THE MEETING.
SO WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO ALWAYS HAVE PROPER MEETINGS.
'CAUSE IF YOU DON'T, IT COULD CAUSE TROUBLES LATER.
UM, ESPECIALLY THAT COMES ALONG WHEN I GET TO THE NOTICE.
I'VE HAD TO POST YOUR NOTICE RELEASE THREE DAYS BEFORE A LADY WENT, SAID, WE FORGOT.
WHAT DID WE DO? SHE'S LIKE, WELL, DON'T HAVE THE MEETING.
BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A MEETING AND YOU'RE ALREADY OFF VIOLATING FOIA, SOMEBODY VIOLATES CHALLENGES YOU UP TO TWO YEARS LATER, THEN ANYTHING YOU DO FROM THAT POINT, THAT IF PACKET FROM THAT DECISION BASED ON ANOTHER COULD BE NULLIFIED.
AND THAT'S THE ONLY ROOM THE COURT REALLY HAS.
UM, BY GOING TO THE CHRISTMAS PARTY, GOING TO THE BARBECUE, GOING TO A RIBBON.
THOSE ARE ACCEPTABLE AS LONG AS YOU'RE DONE, GET IN A GROUP AND START TRANSACTING DISCUSSION PUBLIC BUSINESS, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
UM, THE PROBLEM WITH THAT OTHER COURT CASE IS THE PUBLIC WAS COMING UP TO THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER THE CASE.
THIS IS WHAT THIS LEAVE IN MY HEAD.
BUT THE, THE CO THE, THEY WERE IN FRONT OF THE PANEL.
IT WAS AFTER, UH, RIOTS AND PRINCE WILLIAM, UH, AND A RESULT OF THE POLICE WERE RESPONDING AND HAD THE POLICE COMMISSIONER, THE NAACP AND FIVE OF THE SEVEN COUNT, UH, COUNTY COMMISSIONERS WERE THERE AND THE PUBLIC WAS BRINGING ISSUES AND THEY WERE RESPONDING.
THERE'S, THAT'S WHERE THE COURT FOUND 'EM HAVING A MEETING BECAUSE THEY WERE IN, IT WASN'T THAT THEY'RE INITIALLY CONS COMPARING ANOTHER AND COMING TOGETHER.
BUT, SO THE POINT IS, BEING YOU GET INTO IT, YOU WANNA BE CAREFUL, BUT YOU CAN GO TO OTHER THINGS AS LONG AS YOU DON'T CROSSOVER AND, AND, AND START, UH, AND THIS IS KIND OF WHAT THEY CHANGED THE DEFINITION OF LAW ENFORCE.
THAT WAS THE CASE THAT WAS ABOUT, UM, BUT IS THAT, UH, PUBLIC BUSINESS MEANS ANY ACTIVITY IF PUBLIC BODY UNDERTAKEN OR PROPOSES TO UNDERTAKE ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE IT
[01:05:01]
REPRESENTS.SO THAT'S WHERE YOU CAN START CROSSED OVER INTO THE PUBLIC BUSINESS.
UH, STICK TO RELIGION, POLITICS, SPORTS.
NEVER SAY, RIGHT? DON'T EVER DISCUSS RELIGION AND POLITICS, BUT, UH, NO.
BUT YOU, IF YOU SEE THE PUBLIC OF BUSINESS, YOU'RE GOING TO, YOU COULD BE IN TROUBLE THERE.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? NOT TOO HARD.
I I CALL UP THE, UH, THE, UH, THE NOAHS ARC RULE.
JUST STAY IN PAIRS AND YOU'LL BE ALL RIGHT.
NOW, IF YOU HAVE LIKE A GROUP DOCUMENT, LIKE GOOGLE DOCUMENTS OR CHAT, EMAIL, CHAT, IF YOU'RE NOT HAVING A DISCUSSION IN REAL TIME, IT'S NOT A VIOLATION.
IF YOU'RE EMAILING EACH OTHER OR TEXTING CONFERENCE CALL ZOOM OR THREE OF YOU TOGETHER IN REAL TIME, THAT WOULD BE A MEETING.
BUT IF YOU HAVE LIKE A GROUP CHAT ROOM AND THE TRADING THINGS, SOMEONE RESPONDS A DAY LATER, A COUPLE HOURS LATER.
SO THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY ABOUT, YOU'RE NOT HAVING A MEETINGS VIOLATION.
BUT WE DO ADVISE IF YOU USE EMAILS TO DO A BLIND COPY.
IF YOU'RE DOING A BOARD THAT, LIKE THE CLERK WOULD SEND OUT TO THE WHOLE BOARD AND THE BOARD COULD RESPOND BACK TO THE CLERK, EVERYBODY ELSE CAN SEE IT.
THEY JUST CAN'T RESPOND TO IT, YOU KNOW, AND KIND OF KEEPS IT DOWN FROM HAVING A MEETING.
THE PROBLEM WITH THAT, SO, UH, THAT'S ONE OF OUR GUIDES.
BUT, UM, YES, REAL TIME CONVERSATIONS OF THREE PEOPLE.
THAT'S WHERE YOU GET INTO THE MEETING.
THE MEETINGS ISSUE, UH, AND EMAILS.
UNLESS YOU SAY THEY HAVE TIME TRACK, THEY'RE ONE MINUTE BEHIND EACH OTHER.
YEAH, THIS COULD BE A REAL TIME COMMUNICATION.
CERTAIN DAYS OR HOURS LATER, PROBABLY NOT.
UM, SO LIKE I SAID, THREE THINGS FOR MEETINGS.
YOU GOTTA PROVIDE NOTICE TO THE PUBLIC.
OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, AND YOU GOTTA TAKE MINUTES.
THOSE ARE THE THREE OF THE FAILURE DEPARTMENTS FOR OPEN MEETINGS.
NOTICE REQUIRES THREE THINGS OR DAYTIME LOCATION.
UM, IT ALSO REQUIRES TO BE POSTED IN THREE LOCATIONS.
HAVE A WEBSITE, PROMINENT PUBLIC LOCATION, AND THE OFFICE OF THE CLERK OF ADMINISTRATIVE CHIEF OF THE BODY.
AND ALSO NEEDS TO BE POSTED AT LEAST THREE DAYS BEFORE THE MEETING, NOT COUNTING THE DAY OF THE MEETING.
UM, THEN THERE IS, UH, THAT IS A REGULAR NOTICE REQUIREMENT.
NOW, IF YOU HAVE A SPECIAL EMERGENCY OR CONTINUED MEETING, IT DOES COME OUT, WHICH HAS TO BE, UH, REASONABLE UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES.
THAT'S THE SPECTRUM THAT'S GONNA BE ANALYZED BY MS. COUNTY COURT.
WAS IMMEDIATE NOTICE, REASONABLE IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES.
ONCE THE NOTICE IS PROVIDED TO THE BOARD MEMBERS OR THE COMMISSION MEMBERS TO ATTEND, IT NEEDS TO BE SENT OUT SIMULTANEOUSLY TO THE PUBLIC SAME TIME.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S THAT REQUIREMENT, THAT SIMILAR REQUIREMENT FOR YOUR AGENDAS AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS WHEN YOU SEND IT TO THE MEMBERS TO HAVE FOR THE MEETING, A COPY NEEDS TO BE MADE AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.
UM, BUT THOSE ARE REASONS TO HAVE SPECIAL VERSUS ABUSE.
AND THEN YOU HAVE THE DIRECT NOTICE TO THOSE WHO REQUESTED AN EMAIL LIST.
THIS IS AN EXEMPTION UNDER PUBLIC RECORDS.
CITIZENS WHO SIGN UP TO BE DIRECTLY NOTICED FOR THIS COPY OF COMMUNICATIONS FROM THEIR INFORMATION IS PROTECTED, UH, FROM BEING RELEASED.
HOWEVER, IF I FOR YOU, SOME INFORMATION, YOU ASK MY NAME AND ADDRESS AND YOU KEEP A RECORD OF IT, THAT IS, IS NOT EXEMPT.
IF I MAKE PUBLIC COMMENTS AT A PUBLIC MEETING AND I PROVIDE MY NAME AND MY ADDRESS TO KNOW, SO YOU KNOW, I'M A CITIZEN OF THE COUNTY, THAT WOULD NOT BE PROTECTED INFORMATION.
IT'S NOT, THERE'S NOT AN EXEMPTION TO KEEP THAT FROM BEING RELEASED.
AND A REPORT OF CRIME IS A CONFIDENTIAL FOREMAN ON THE FRONT END.
BUT IF I CALL BACK LATER AND SAY, HEY, BY THE WAY, I WAS A CONFIDENTIAL FOREMAN.
THAT DOESN'T WORK AFTER THE FACT.
THERE'S A CASE DOWN IN SUFFOLK SUSSEX WHERE THE FORMER, UH, UH, SCHOOL BOARD SUPERINTENDENT, FORMER ONE WANTED TO GO TO THE MEETING.
UH, THEN THE BOARD DIDN'T WANT HER THERE.
IT WAS HER AND HER AND AN ATTORNEY.
AND THEY'RE IN A ROOM LIKE THIS.
AND THEY WERE BROADCASTING IN ON A CLOSED CAPTION IN ANOTHER ROOM.
AND THEY TRIED TO KICK HER OUT.
THIS IS HOW MUCH ROOM THEY HAD.
NOBODY WAS THERE EXCEPT FOR HER AND ANOTHER GUY.
AND THEY BASICALLY CALLED THE POLICE ON HER.
HAD HER ESCORTED, THREATENED TO ARREST HER, HAD HER IN TEARS.
SHE SUED 'EM AND WAS RIGHTLY WON BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE SHE CAME AND THERE'S NO RECEIPTS, THERE'S PLENTY AVAILABLE.
SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE IN THE ROOM TO OBSERVE THEM.
THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO RECORD.
UM, THEY JUST DIDN'T WANT HER THERE.
AND THEY WERE TRYING TO USE IT AS EXCUSE, UH, TO KEEP HER OUT.
AND, UH, THE ATTORNEY RAN THE, UH, THE REPORTER RAN AWAY WHEN THEY TRIED TO TELL HIM THAT HE JUST TOOK OFF.
HE DIDN'T WANT ANY PART OF IT, BUT SHE SUED HIM AND WON.
AND IT WAS DETERMINED THAT, UH, STAY FIRED IF SHE, LIKE I SAID, IF THERE'S ROOM FOR HIM, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO INVITE THE PUBLIC IN PUBLIC BUILDING LIKE THIS DOOR'S OPEN.
BUT IF IT WAS LIKE FULL CAPACITY, YES, YOU'RE HAVE THE RIGHT TO, THAT'S THE SAFETY ISSUE.
YOU HAVE A REASON TO GO TO ANOTHER BUILDING, BUT OTHERWISE JUST GET THERE EARLIER.
[01:10:01]
BUT, UM, FLOYD DOESN'T ADDRESS THAT.FLOYD DOESN'T REQUIRE PUBLIC COMMENTS AT PUBLIC MEETINGS.
WELL, IT MIGHT NOT BE GOOD PUBLIC POLICY FOR A PUBLIC, FOR A A, A COUNTY BOARD, A COMMISSION TO NOT ACCEPT PUBLIC COMMENTS.
BUT IT'S NOT REQUIRED UNDER FO IT IS JUST REQUIRED IF YOU DO ACCEPT IT, YOU KINDA HAVE YOUR OWN RULES, POLICIES, HOW YOU DO IT, AND YOUR STANDARD ABOUT APPLYING IT WHEN YOU DO ELECTRONIC MEETINGS VERSUS IN PERSON MEETINGS, UM, ENCOURAGING THE STREAMING TELEVISION AND OTHER STUFF.
RECORDING, NOT REQUIRED TO RECORD, NOT REQUIRED.
SOMEONE PO THEY POSTED THEIR VIDEO OR RECORDING OF THE MEETING AND THEY EDITED IT.
WELL, I WAS LIKE, WELL, THAT'S FINE.
ALL THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO IS POST THE MINUTES.
THE VIDEO IS JUST EXTRA FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT OR YOUR ENJOY.
THEY AIN'T REQUIRED TO POST THE VIDEO.
SO, UM, THAT'S NOT A FOUR YOUR REQUIREMENT, BUT, SO MEETING MINUTES ARE REQUIRED AND OFTENTIMES THIS IS THE OFFICIAL RECORD OF WHAT HAPPENS.
SO YOU WANNA MAKE SURE THIS GETS RIGHT.
I KNOW IT'S HARD TO TAKE MINUTES.
IT'S HARD TO MAKE GOOD MINUTES.
I'VE BEEN ON MADE, BEEN ON BOTH SIDES OF IT.
BUT A LOT OF TIMES WHEN THINGS GO WRONG, THE FIRST THING THE COURT'S GONNA DO IS SHOW WHERE ARE THE MINUTES? GIVE YOU, LET'S GET A COPY OF THE OFFICIAL MINUTES.
AND IT'S GOING TO BE, YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT AND IT'S GOTTA RECORD, UM, AT ALL OPEN MEETINGS AND FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.
UH, YOU POSTED THE SEVEN DAYS OF FINAL APPROVAL.
UH, YOU MAY GET A REQUEST FOR DRAFTED MINUTES.
UH, AND THOSE WILL BE SUBJECT TO RELEASE, BUT THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO BE POSTED.
DRAFT MINUTES ARE NOT REQUIRED TO BE POSTED, BUT YOU CAN, YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED.
YOU SUPPOSED OR POST THE SEVEN DAYS OF FINAL APPROVAL, WHICH IS USUALLY THE FOLLOWING MONTH OR TWO MONTHS, DEPENDS ON WHERE YOUR MEETING IS.
THAT'S THE NOTICE DATE, TIME AND LOCATION.
YOUR ATTENDANCE, WHAT MEMBERS ARE THERE PRESENT.
SO YOU KNOW YOU HAVE A QUORUM OR NOT.
THE SUMMARY OF THE MATTER DISCUSSED, DELIVERED, VOTED, AND ANY VOTES TAKEN NEED BE ON THE RECORD.
IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ROLL CALL VOTES.
IT CAN BE ROLL CALL VOTES, BUT IT CAN JUST BE MAJORITY VOTES OR HOWEVER IT'S TAKEN.
UM, BUT NEEDS RECORD THE VOTES.
AND THEN WHETHER THERE IS ANY CLOSED MEETING PROVISIONS, ANY GOING INTO OR COMING OUT CLOSE MEETING FOR THE MINUTES.
UH, ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? OKAY, AGENDAS.
UM, WHY DOESN'T REQUIRE, UH, YOU TO PROVIDE YOUR AGENDA IN ONE FORMAT OR ANOTHER? DOES IT, UH, PROVIDE HOW YOU AMEND YOUR AGENDA? UH, DOES IT ADDRESS
DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAD TO POST ON THE WEBSITE, YOU CAN, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE JUST A COPY OF ALL THAT INFORMATION AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.
IT'S ALL PROVIDED AT A MEETING.
WE, WE ALWAYS SAY ONE COPY NEEDS TO BE AVAILABLE AT THE MEETING.
NOW I KNOW WE USED TO DO STACKS OF AGENDAS THAT WE DIDN'T RECYCLING AFTERWARDS 'CAUSE NOBODY, ONE OF THEM.
BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE ONE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.
JUST POSTING THE AGENDA UP HERE WOULD NOT BE SUFFICIENT TO MEET THE COMPLIANCE.
YOU NEED TO HAVE ONE, A HARD COPY AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.
THEY MAY WANT A COPY OVER A TOWN ISSUE.
AND THE 30 OTHER CITIZENS WHO DIDN'T GET A COPY, LOOK AT THE COPY WERE UPSET
AND I THINK THE TOWN ADMINISTRATOR, HIS RESPONSE WAS, I CAN'T HELP IF SOMEBODY STOLE A COPY.
IT'S LIKE, WELL, YOU COULD HAVE MADE MORE COPIES.
SO, YOU KNOW, YOU BRING IT ON YOURSELF, JUST DOING ONE.
BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT HE CHOSE TO DO.
BUT, UH, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, YOU CAN ADD AMEN, ADD THINGS TO THE AGENDA, MAY HAVE A UPON POLICY TO ADD SOMETHING LAST MINUTE, BUT TOWNS DO IT ALL THE TIME.
WE USED TO HAVE TO DO ADDENDUMS. IT'S ALLOWED FOR, DOESN'T CHANGE THAT.
IT'S JUST WHATEVER YOU DO PROPOSED ON YOUR AGENDA, YOU JUST HAVE A COPY AVAILABLE.
DOESN'T CHANGE MEANS YOU CAN'T CHANGE YOUR AGENDA.
ANY QUESTIONS? OKAY, CLOSED MEETINGS ARE RESERVED FOR THE 55, I THINK.
A 55, UH, UH, PERMISSIBLE REASONS, UH, FOR LIMITED PURPOSES OF HAVING A CLOSED MEETING.
UM, BUT BEFORE YOU GO INTO A CLOSED MEETING, YOU HAVE TO BE IN AN OPEN MEETING.
SO, UH, HOPEFULLY IT'S ON THE AGENDA.
MIGHT NOT BE MAYBE ADDED TO THE AGENDA.
THAT'S DO PEOPLE GET UPSET WHEN YOU SNEAK IN A CLOSED MEETING AGENDA ELEMENT? THAT'S NOT PROVISION FOR YOU TO PROVIDE THAT.
IF YOU DO HAVE A CLOSED MEETING, IT'S IN THE MINUTES.
BUT IF YOU DO A, UH, DO A CLOSED MEETING, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS, A MOTION TO GO INTO IT.
THE MOTION HAS SAID, HAS SAID THREE THINGS.
AGAIN, SUBJECT MATTER PURPOSE, AND THEN THE LAW THAT PROVIDES IT.
SO THERE'S 54 EXEMPTION REASONS FOR THE LAW.
A LOT OF TIMES THESE GET MUDDLED.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO IDENTIFY A PERSON.
SAY IT'S A PERSONNEL ISSUE YOU'RE DISCUSSING.
WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS, UH, MR. SMITH, HE'S THE JANITOR AT THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY, WE'RE GONNA GO AND DISCUSS MR. SMITH, HIS COMPENSATION RECORD OR HIS DISCIPLINARY RECORD AND SO FORTH.
[01:15:01]
YOU CAN SAY WE'RE GOING TO GO, WE'RE GOING TO, I MAKE A MOTION.WE GO INTO CLOSED SESSION TO DISCUSS, UH, THE, UH, DISCIPLINE OR THE COMPENSATION FOR THE JANITORIAL STAFF OF THE LOWER SCHOOL OR THE PUBLIC OR THE, UH, ELEMENTARY SCHOOL ASSISTANTS.
YOU KNOW, SOMETHING, GIVE A LITTLE MORE REASON, PURPOSE BEHIND IT.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO CALL IT FIRST FUNDING.
I DO HAVE GOTTA SAY, WHEN WE DO THAT, WE HAVE TWO PEOPLE IN OUR OFFICE.
THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHO THE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANTS ARE.
I'M IN A TWO PERSON OFFICE MYSELF.
WHEN PEOPLE GET DISCIPLINED, THEY KNOW WHO'S GETTING DISCIPLINED.
BUT, UH, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING IN THERE.
UM, AND THEN YOU GOTTA MAKE SURE YOU PLOT IT TO THE STRAIGHT WALL.
AND WE HAD GUIDES ON OUR WEBSITE ABOUT THIS.
SO IF YOU'RE GOOD, YOU CAN ALWAYS LOOK IT OUT AND WRITE IT OUT.
HAVE YOUR CA UH, ATTORNEY LOOK AT IT, FLIP OVER, MAKE SURE IT COMPLIES.
BUT ONCE YOU GET THE MOTION, YOU GET THE SECOND, THEN YOU GO INTO CLOSED SESSION.
YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO TAKE MINUTES DURING CLOSE.
THIS IS WHERE YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T, PUBLIC'S NOT ALLOWED ACCESS.
THEY CAN NEED TO BE ESCORTED OUT.
OR Y'ALL CAN GO TO A SEPARATE ROOM.
UM, AND YOU CAN INVITE WHO YOU NEED TO.
MAYBE YOU HAVE A CONSULTANT WHO'S COMING.
MAYBE IT'S THE PRINCIPAL OF THE SCHOOL OR THE, THE, THE HEAD OF THE CONTRACT FOR THE GENERAL SEARCH.
THEY CAN BE, THEY CAN BE THERE INVITED.
IF IT'S A SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COUNCIL, MAYBE A COMMITTEE MEMBER WANTS TO SEE WHAT'S, HE CAN GO AND OBSERVE OR SHE MAY BE ABLE TO SIT AND OBSERVE, NOT BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE.
'CAUSE THE SUBCOMMITTEE CLOSED A SESSION.
BUT THEY CAN BE ABLE TO OBSERVE AND LISTEN AND SEE WHAT'S DISCUSSED.
UM, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE MINUTES.
IF YOU DO TAKE MINUTES, THEY ARE PROTECTED.
UH, DON'T KNOW WHY YOU WOULD, BUT, 'CAUSE THERE'S NO VOTES.
SO THERE'S NO VOTES OR CLOSED SESSIONS.
SO THE, I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU NEED TO HOLD EVERYTHING DISCUSSED.
'CAUSE ONCE YOU'VE DECIDED TO, TO QUIT TALKING ABOUT THE MATTER, NOBODY VOTES TO LEAVE CLOSED SESSION.
'CAUSE YOU CAN'T VOTE OFF THE RECORD.
SO YOU DISAGREE TO STOP TALKING AND THE FIRST THING YOU DO IS GONNA GO CERTIFY THE MEETING.
AND THIS IS THE MO PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT PART BESIDES THE MOTION.
'CAUSE IF YOU PROPER, THERE'S A THOUSAND DOLLARS CIVIL PENALTY FOR THIS ONE.
THAT'S THE HIGHEST PENALTY IN FOIA.
UM, BUT WHEN YOU COME OUT OF THE AGREED, THIS DISCUSSION IS OVER, TALK IT OUT AS ALL, AS FAR AS YOU WANT TO.
FIRST THING YOU DO IS CERTIFY THAT WHAT WE IDENTIFIED IN THE MOTION IS WHAT WE DID.
SOME PEOPLE MAY AGREE YOU DO A ROLL CALL VOTE.
SOME PEOPLE MAY AGREE THAT SOME PEOPLE WANT OFF THE TOPIC.
IT'S NOT A PASSING VOTE, IT'S A CERTIFICATION VOTE.
MAYBE IT COULD, UH, FOUR PEOPLE THINK WE WENT OFF TOPIC THREE, PEOPLE THINK YOU STAYED ON TOPIC.
IT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT A YES OR NO.
IT'S JUST WE ARE CERTIFY, UH, INDIVIDUALLY WHAT WAS DONE.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO THAT AT ALL, THAT'S THE POP.
THERE MAY BE CHALLENGES IF YOU LOSE THE VOTE, BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE.
BUT YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE A VOTE OF INDIVIDUALS SAYING, WE CERTIFY THAT.
NOW ONCE YOU CERTIFY WHAT WAS DONE, GOOD OR BAD IN BETWEEN, THEN YOU TAKE MOTIONS TO TAKE ACTION.
UH, I'VE HAD ISSUES WITH PEOPLE WHEN IT COME UP.
THEY DID I PROPER CLOSE MEETINGS.
I'VE LOOKED AT THE MINUTES, THE QUARTER, THE MINUTES WROTE DOWN THAT THEY MADE A MOTION TO CERTIFY, THEN THEY MADE A MOTION TO ADD A SUBGROUP OR A SUBCOMMITTEE TO HANDLE.
AND THEY HAD ONE VOTE AND I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE VOTING ON.
IT WAS, IT WAS A CERTIFICATION AND THE COURT WOULDN'T EITHER AND IT'D BE A PROPER VIOLATION POSSIBLE.
SO YOU WANNA MAKE SURE YOU GET THE CODE CERTIFIED AND CLOSED SESSION.
ONCE YOU GET OUT OF IT, THEN TAKE YOUR MOTIONS.
UM, BECAUSE THE LAW REQUIRES ALL VOTES ON THE RECORD.
ALL VOTES, NO SECRET WRITTEN OR SECRET BALLOTS.
YOU HAVE TO VOTE ON THE RECORD.
DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO VOTE, ROLL CALL OR BY NAME.
IT HAS TO BE OPEN IN PUBLIC FORMAT AND RECORDED IN MINUTES.
UM, THIS IS JUMPING AHEAD A SLIDE ACTUALLY.
UM, A LITTLE BIT, BUT JUST, IT'S ALSO GOING BACK A LITTLE BIT IN TERMS OF, UM, ANNOUNCING THE PURPOSE OF THE CLOSED SESSION.
IF IT'S TWO, THERE'S TWO ITEMS TO BE DISCUSSED.
THOSE HAVE TO BE SPECIFICALLY SPELLED OUT.
OTHERWISE THAT WOULD BE A VIOLATION, RIGHT? AND IT'D BE BEST MAYBE TO HAVE TWO DIFFERENT SEPARATE CLOSED SESSIONS, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? SO YOU DON'T MU IT.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW HOW CLOSE IF IT'S PERSONNEL AND THEN IT IS HIRING, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S CLOSE ENOUGH TO BE WHERE YOU CAN, BUT YOU DON'T WANNA BE LIKE, WELL, WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS THE PERSONNEL ISSUE AND THEN WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT A SCHOOL SAFETY ISSUE.
YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? 'CAUSE YOU MAY GET OFF THE SUBJECT ON ONE AND YOU REALLY, THE CLOSE DISMISS PEOPLE TO THAT ONE PURPOSE AND THAT SUBJECT MATTER.
SO SHE REALLY HAD ONE SUBJECT MATTER.
AND SO THAT'S KIND OF THE PURPOSE OF THAT.
AND SUBJECT MATTER PURPOSES ARE DIFFERENT.
I KNOW THEY, EVEN WHEN I TRY TO WRITE ONE OUT, I MAKE IT, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S THE SAME THING.
BUT, UH, UH, THIS IS THE EXEMPTION.
SO THIS IS THE LAW, YOUR SITE.
THAT'S THE EASY PART, THE PERSONNEL PART.
AND IT HAS A LIST OF THINGS YOU CAN TALK ABOUT.
UH, I'VE GOT THE TOWN NEAR RICHMOND
[01:20:01]
TOWN COUNCIL GOT MAD, A NEW ELECTED MEMBER.AND THEY HAD A CLOSED MEETING TO KICK HIM OFF THE, UH, OFF THE TOWN COUNCIL.
AND HE IS ASKING CAN THEY DO THAT? AND I SAID, WELL, SOME BOARDS HAVE THE AUTHORITY 'CAUSE IT SAYS DELIVERING, YOU KNOW, THING, DISCIPLINE, UH, PAY RAISES AND OTHER, IF THEY HAVE AUTHORITY TO DISCIPLINE YOU, THEN YES, THAT MAY AFFECT WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
IT MIGHT FIT IN WITHIN THAT CATEGORY IF THEY IDENTIFY PROPERLY.
BUT I DON'T KNOW THE MOTION TO DO FOR IF THEY DON'T HAVE THAT AUTHORITY THEN, THOUGH THEY DID IT PROPERLY.
BUT YOU NEED TO HAVE, LIKE I SAID, SUBJECT MATTER PURPOSE.
AND THAT'S WHAT THEY, YOU CAN IDENTIFY IN THERE.
I DON'T MENTION LIKE STUDENTS BY NAMES.
YOU DON'T WANNA MENTION STUDENTS BY THE NAMES OF, BUT YOU KNOW, SAY WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS ACCUSATIONS OF PROPERTY, UH, YOU KNOW, TO SELL THE PROPERTY ON BELL ROAD OUT HERE, UM, IS THE PURPOSE IS TO ASK HIM WHAT WAS THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S BEEN THE VALUATION, WHERE THE BIDS RECEIVED? IS IT PROPER UNDER THIS? YOU CAN, YEAH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY, WE RECEIVED THESE BIDS AND THOSE BIDS AND THOSE BIDS, AND WE'RE GONNA FIGURE BETTER.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO THIS GOOD THAT MUCH DETAIL, BUT WE NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? THOSE ARE USUALLY, UH, THEY SEEM TO HAPPEN MORE OFTEN THAN THEY USED TO.
THOSE MEANS, I THINK THEY SHOULD BE, THEY'RE PROBABLY MORE OF A RARE OCCURRENCE THAT NEED TO BE MORE THAN A COMMONLY.
BUT THERE ARE ISSUES THAT POP UP.
UH, LIKE I SAID, EMERGENCY ISSUES POP UP SOMETIMES.
UM, WHAT HAPPENED? UH, THE TOWN ATTORNEY GOT ARRESTED FOR THE WI ONE THE NEXT DAY.
THE TOWN COUNCIL FELT THAT WAS AN EMERGENCY MEETING TO HAVE A CLOSED MEETING THE NEXT DAY BECAUSE THEIR LEGAL COUNSEL JUST GOT ARRESTED.
NOW THEY'RE CALLING OUR OFFICE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT ILLEGAL.
'CAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANNA TALK TO THE ATTORNEY WHO TESTED.
HE'S THE ONE WHO GOT ARRESTED.
SO WE WERE TRYING TO GIVE THE BEST ADVICE WE CAN WITHOUT BEING THEIR ATTORNEY.
BUT, SO THERE ARE THINGS, BUT THOSE ARE SPECIAL CONDITIONS.
YOU NOTIFY THE PUBLIC AT THE SAME TIME YOU'RE NOTIFYING THE MEMBERS, YOU CAN DO IT.
SO THIS KIND OF, THIS HAS BEEN STANDARDIZED SINCE THE COVID CRISIS.
UH, WE KINDA OPERATE UNDER THE, ALL ALL EVERY STATE OPERATE.
UNDERSTAND THE STATE OF EMERGENCY PRETTY MUCH.
UM, EVERYBODY GOVERNOR HERE THAT ALL THE GOVERNORS KIND OF FORMALIZED VIRGINIAS COME OUT.
TWO, TWO DIFFERENT, UH, MANNERS ADDED BESIDES THE STATE OF EMERGENCY, WHICH STAYS THERE, WHICH IS GREAT 'CAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
YOU CAN ALWAYS ENACT THAT AND YOU CAN USUALLY GET AWAY, DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.
BUT REMOTE PARTICIPATION IS WHERE ONE MEMBER OF, OF A PUBLIC BODY CAN PARTICIPATE REMOTELY.
WHETHER THE QUORUM OR THE OTHER ELECTED MEMBERS OR THE POINT MEMBERS MEET IN THE CENTRAL LOCATION IN PERSON THAT'S OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
ALL VIRTUAL IS WHERE ALL THE MEMBERS ARE PARTICIPATING REMOTELY.
EVEN THE PUBLIC IS ATTENDING REMOTELY.
THIS IS LIMITED TO ONLY, THIS IS, SOME BOARDS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT ONE, AND I'LL GET TO THAT.
BUT FOR THE REMOTE PARTICIPATION, YOU HAVE TO EITHER ONE OF THOSE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ADOPT THE POLICY ANNUALLY AND YOU HAVE ADOPTED AN OPEN MEETING BEFORE YOU CAN START HAVING AN ELECTRONIC OR A REMOTE OR ALL VIRTUAL MEETINGS.
SO, UM, FOR THE REMOTE, WE HAVE A MEMBER OR TWO LONG UP TO A QUORUM.
LONG AS YOU HAVE A QUORUM PRESENT, YOU HAVE MEMBERS THAT CAN ANTICIPATE FOR THESE FOUR REASONS.
NOW, PERSONAL MATTERS IS KINDA LIKE THE OTHER THINGS THAT'S, YOU GOTTA GIVE A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION.
HIGH TOWN ON BUSINESS, ON VACATION, SOMETHING ELSE.
FUNERAL, AUNT SIDE, SOMETHING BESIDES JUST PERSONAL BECAUSE IT'S LIMITED TO ONLY 25% OF THE MEETINGS PER YEAR.
MEDICAL CONDITIONS ARE UNLIMITED IF YOU HAVE YOUR OWN MEDICAL CONDITION OR A FAMILY MEMBER, OR IF THE MEETINGS ARE 60 MILES AWAY.
SO YOU'RE HAVING A MEETING AND, UH, THE GREENBRIER AND YOU CAN'T GET TO IT, THE COUNCIL.
SO YOU DECIDE TO PARTICIPATE MODE.
'CAUSE THE MEETING'S 60 MILES AWAY FROM YOUR RESIDENCE, THAT'S LEGITIMATE.
UNFORTUNATELY, YOU MISSED A GREAT MEETING, BUT THAT'S THE WAY I GOT IT.
BUT, UH, WITH THE CAREGIVERS AND THE, UH, IF YOU, THIS WAS ADDED, IF A DIS PERSON IS A IS DISABLED OR A CAREGIVER FOR A DISABLED PERSON, THERE'S NO LIMITATIONS ON HOW MANY TIMES THEY CAN USE IT.
THEY CAN USE IT AND THEY COUNT TOWARDS THE QUORUM PRESENT.
SO EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT THEIR PHYSICAL PRESIDENT BECAUSE THEY'RE A CAREGIVER OR THEY'RE DISABLED, THEY DO COUNT TOWARDS THE QUORUM FOR REMOTE PARTICIPATION.
UM, I GOT A CALL THAT'S RECENTLY FROM THE BOARD THAT'S ALL DISABLED MEMBERS FROM ALL OVER THE COMMONWEALTH.
AND THEY'RE LIKE, HOW DO WE HAVE, LIKE, WE GET TO AT LEAST ONE IN PERSON MEETING TO ADOPT THE POLICY TO HAVE, AND THEN YOU'RE ONLY LIMITED TO VIRTUAL MEETINGS 50% OF THE YEAR.
BUT WE'RE ALL, I WAS LIKE, WELL, THEY COULD ALL QUALIFY, I'M SORRY.
BASICALLY THEY ALL QUALIFY EITHER BEING IN DISABLED OR CAREGIVER SO THEY COULD APPROVE, HAVE ALL VIRTUAL MEETINGS, BUT ALL MEMBERS PREPARED REMOTELY, BUT THAT NOBODY IN A QUORUM, IN A APPROVE LOCATION.
SO WE, WE AGREED THAT THEY PROBABLY NEED EXEMPTION FROM THE GOVERNMENT,
BUT THERE MAY BE SOME WAY TO GO ABOUT, ABOUT, WE, WE HAD A HARD TIME FIGURING THAT ONE OUT.
BUT, UH, UM, BUT THE ALL VIRTUAL IS NOT ALLOWED
[01:25:01]
FOR LOCAL GOVERN BODIES.SCHOOL, SCHOOL BOARDS, PLANNING COMMISSIONS, ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARDS, ZONING APPEAL BOARDS, OR THOSE OVER PROFESSIONAL LICENSES.
UM, AND THEY'RE ONLY ALLOWED 50% OF THE YEAR.
THESE ARE BECOMING MORE POPULAR.
SO 50%, YOU CAN'T DO IT BACK TO BACK.
UH, REMOTE LOCATION DOES NOT HAVE TO BE OPEN TO POLICY, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE A POLICY IN PLACE.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? UH, IF YOU ADOPT THE POLICY FOR YOUR BOARD, IF YOU DO REMOTE, IT COULD APPLY TO THE SUBCOMMITTEES OF ANY OF THAT.
YOU KNOW, YOU NORMALLY APPLY TO THE SUBCOMMITTEES OF ANY OF THAT, OF THAT BOARD OR COMMISSION.
UM, BUT YES, SO YOU FIX THE NUMBER OF TIMES YOU CAN DO THIS.
UM, YOU CAN DUMP YOUR OWN POLICY, APPLY UNIFORMLY FAIRLY WITH ALL MEMBERS.
WE HELP REVIEW POLICIES FOR PEOPLE WHO, WHO DRIVE 'EM.
BUT IT HAS TO BE DONE ANNUALLY NOW.
AND, UM, STATES OF EMERGENCY, UH, KEY HERE IS IT MUST BE FOR THE CONTINU CONTINUITY OF OPERATIONS OF THE PUBLIC BODY TO DISCHARGE ITS LAWFUL PURPOSES, DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES.
IF YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT, THEN YOU, YOU PROBABLY DON'T NEED TO BE MEETING OR STATE OF EMERGENCY REMOTELY, ELECTRONICALLY.
BUT THAT'S THE KEY LANGUAGE WOULD BE READ INTO THE FIRST LINE OF THE MEETING WHEN THE OPENING, UH, IF YOU HAVE TO PREPARE IT DURING STATE OF EMERGENCY.
UM, AND THAT'S THE CASE I WAS WRITING ABOUT RECENTLY.
ZONING IS NOT CONSIDERED A PR, UH, CONTINUITY OPERATION.
SO ZONING WOULD NOT QUALIFY ACCORDING TO THE SUPREME COURT.
UM, MAYBE OTHER THINGS WOULD BE TAX RATES IS PAID, THESE OTHER THINGS, UM, NO POLICIES ARE REQUIRED.
UH, ELECTRONIC MEANS WE HAVE A GUIDE.
UH, PLEASE ALLOW, WE HAVE ELECTRONIC MEANS THAT YOU ALLOW PUBLIC PARTICIPATE IN THE SAME WAY YOU WOULD DO TO IN-PERSON MEETINGS IF YOU ALLOW IT.
IF MEMBERS CAN MONITOR, LISTEN IF THEY CANNOT PARTICIPATE.
UM, I CAN TALK SECOND ABOUT SOCIAL MEDIA.
I'M NOT A SOCIAL MEDIA PERSON, BUT SOCIAL MEDIA IS KINDA LIKE PERSONAL EMAILS.
IF YOU START USING YOUR PERSONAL EMAIL TO DO WORK STUFF, AND THEN YOU HAVE WORK STUFF ON YOUR PERSONAL EMAIL THAT BECOME INTERTWINED, IT'S BEST TO HAVE 'EM SEPARATED.
BECAUSE WHAT I SAID IS ABOUT BEING PERSONAL INFORMATION.
YES, YOU MAY HAVE A PERSONAL EMAIL ADDRESS, BUT IF YOU DON'T PUBLIC BUSINESS, YOU'RE MAKING PUBLIC RECORDS ON YOUR PERSONAL ACCOUNT, WHICH ARE SUBJECT TO FOIA.
IF YOU'RE SOCIAL MEDIA TO CONDUCT PUBLIC BUSINESS, YOU MAY BE CREATING PUBLIC RECORDS ON THERE.
THAT'D BE SUBJECT TO FOIA AND ACCESS.
SO YOU GONNA BE CAREFUL WITH THAT.
UM, AND I'VE COME FROM A TOWN, ACTUALLY, I CAN WORK TOWN NOT VERY FAR FROM PORT ROYAL VIRGINIA INSTEAD OF FRONT ROYAL VIRGINIA.
BUT, UH, WE DON'T HAVE, WE, WE, WELL, THE GOVERNMENT HAS THE WEBSITES.
NOBODY, NONE OF THE RESTAURANTS DO.
NOBODY CAN AFFORD THEIR OWN WEBSITES.
SO IF YOU'RE USING FACEBOOK TO DO THINGS LIKE YOU'RE ANNOUNCING, UH, PUBLIC EVENTS AND SOME THINGS, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN THINGS, IT CAN SUDDENLY BECOME QUASI-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS BE SUBJECT TO FOIA AND ACCESS ABUSE SUBJECT TO THAT.
SO BE CAREFUL IF THAT'S HAPPENING.
UM, MOST PEOPLE NOW THEY HAVE THEIR OWN CITY WEBSITES, TOWNS YOU DO PICTURES AND EVENTS AND LIKES AND STUFF ON SOCIAL MEDIA, WHICH MAKES SENSE.
BUT DON'T, YOU KNOW, IF YOU START USING TRANSACTION BUSINESS, POSTING THE AGENDA, BUSINESSES, YOU KNOW, UH, TAX REFERENDUMS OR OTHER THINGS ON THERE, YOU COULD BE DRAWING THIS TO A CLOSET.
BUSINESS EMAIL ACCOUNT, A CLOSET BUSINESS, UH, GOVERNMENT WEBSITE.
SO IF YOU WANNA BLOCK SOMEBODY, YOU MAY GET INTO TROUBLE.
SO, BUT JUST BEING A GUIDE ON THAT.
UH, AS FAR AS I KNOW, NOBODY GOES TO JAIL FOR YOU, RIGHT? HAS GONE TO JAIL YET.
UM, THERE IS AN EXEMPTION I SAID EARLY ON ABOUT THE TAX REVISIONS.
AND IT PROVIDES THAT THE TAX, UH, OFFICIALS, THEY RELEASE INFORMATION THEY CAN SPEND UP TO A YEAR IN JAIL.
SO THEY DON'T RELEASE THAT INFORMATION.
EVEN IF FOIA SAYS THEY COULD RELEASE IT, THEY'RE NOT GONNA RELEASE IT.
'CAUSE THEY DON'T WANNA GO TO JAIL FOR A YEAR BEFORE, IF THEY HAVE TO DO IT.
THEY'D HAVE TO PAY A HUNDRED DOLLARS.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE TAKING THE RISK EITHER WAY.
THEY DON'T, THEY FEEL THE JAIL'S A LOT WORSE.
BUT IF SOMEONE DISAGREES WITH YOUR MEANING OR HOW THE ACTION OR, UH, THE THING, THE ONLY THING THAT SAYS THE RIGHT TO DO IS TO FILE A PETITION FOR MANDA OR INJUNCTION.
MADAM SAYS THAT, UH, YOU'RE ASKING THE COURT TO COMPEL THE GOVERNMENT TO RELEASE THE RECORDS OR DO SOMETHING INJUNCTION.
WE PRESENT PREVENT THEM FROM DOING SOMETHING.
SO IF YOU HAD A PROPER CLOSED MEETING AND YOU TOOK ACTION, SOME, UH, UH, UH, CITIZEN MAY FILE A PETITION TO FILE INJUNCTION TO PREVENT THE ACTION BEING PROPOSED BY THE GOVERNMENT IN THAT MEETING TO BE IN PROCEEDING.
UM, PETITION, CHOOSE A DISTRICT, GENERAL DISTRICT OR CIRCUIT COURT.
UH, IT'S GONNA BE LOCAL TO THE COUNTY OR CITY WHERE THE BODY IS.
UH, SINGLE VIOLATION IS A VIOL SINGLE, UH, VIOLATION SUSPICION FOR BOTH THE REMEDIES, UH, REMEDIES, UH, PETITIONS WITHIN SEVEN DAYS, YOU CAN NOTIFY THE PETITIONERS ARE EXPEDITED.
PETITIONER DOESN'T HAVE TO PROVE A BURDEN.
[01:30:01]
ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS, UH, A GOOD FAITH STATEMENT THAT THEIR, THEIR RIGHTS HAVE BEEN VIOLATED.AND THEN IT BECOMES NOT LIKE CIVIL CASE, WHERE IF YOU'RE A PETITIONER AND YOU'RE HARMED, YOU HAVE TO SHOW YOU ARE HARMED OR INJURED.
NOT, NOT IN A FOIA CASE, ALL AFTER I ALLEGE THAT I'VE BEEN HARMED.
AND THEN THE, THE DEFENSE, THE PUBLIC BODY HAS TO SHOW THEY BEHAVED PROPERLY AND WERE COMPELLED WITH THE LAW.
SO THE BURDEN'S ON THE DEFENSE IN THIS, IN THE FOY MATTER, WHEREAS MOST CIVIL MATTERS, IT'S ON THE, UH, PETITIONER, UH, VERSUS NOT THE RESPONDENTS ON THE, UH, PETITIONER OF THE RESPONDENT APPEAR.
SO JUST WANNA MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR ALL, ALL YOUR, YOUR ALL READY WHEN YOU CITE IT.
UM, YOU CAN USE OUR OPINIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OPINIONS, BUT ANY PAYMENTS, WILLFUL VIOLATIONS OF CIVIL PENALTIES, THEY GO TO THE LITERARY FUND.
UM, WE'RE ALL IN FAVOR OF LITERACY, BUT I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO FUND IT WITH FOIA AND, UM, FOR DESTROYING YOUR RECORDS TO AVOID FOIA.
IT COULD BE UP TO A HUNDRED DOLLARS A PAGE IF YOU JUST GET A RECORDS REQUEST.
JUST PROVIDE THE RECORDS, DON'T DESTROY IT, UH, TO AVOID THE REQUEST.
UM, AND LIKE I SAID, THAT'S RECORDS RETENTION.
YOU CAN PROPERLY DESTROY THEM IF YOU DO IT ACCORDING TO THE RECORD RETENTION.
JUST FOLLOW THE RECORD ATTENTION.
UM, AND THEN IMPROPER MEETINGS, A THOUSAND DOLLARS.
UM, SO INITIAL RESOURCES IS MY FRIEND MR. CHAD OWEN, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT RECORD RETENTION OR ISSUES ABOUT THAT, MR. CHAD OWEN AT THE LIBRARY OF VIRGINIA IS A GOOD, GOOD ONE TO TALK TO.
UH, BUT WE HAVE OUR INFORMATION HERE.
UM, AND THEN WE HAVE OTHER MUNICIPAL LEAGUE CAN PROVIDE YOU GUIDANCE, COUNTY ASSOCIATION, COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD ASSOCIATION, SHERIFF ASSOCIATION COMPENSATION.
OH, HOW ABOUT AN HOUR? SAVED YOU A LITTLE TIME, SAVED YOU LUNCH TIME, BUT Y'ALL JUST DIDN'T ASK ANY QUESTIONS.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTION I'M GONNA ASK, I'M GONNA ASK YOU ONE.
SO FOR THE MEMBERS WHO WEREN'T HERE TODAY, THEY COULD WATCH THIS MEETING AND QUALIFY THAT'S RIGHT.
THEY CAN JUST LOG IN FOR FREE AND UH, TALK STRAIGHT TO THE SCREEN AND I'LL STOP AND PAUSE QUESTIONS.
AND THEY LOSE 30 MINUTES BECAUSE I'LL TAKE IT ALL A LITTLE BIT LONGER.
BUT I MEAN, IF THEY WATCH THIS MEETING, OH, THEY COULD WATCH THIS MEETING.
YEAH, YEAH, YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE VERY QUICK TALK.
THEY COULD, IF THEY RECORDED, DID YOU RECORD THIS? OKAY.
JUST MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY DID OR WHATEVER.
AND YOU COME UP WITH A LIST IF YOU WANT A CERTIFICATE.
BUT THEY CAN COME BACK ON WEDNESDAY TOO AND SIT THERE FROM 10 TO 1130 AND DO TEN TWO IF THAT'S A BETTER TIME FOR US.
SO YOU'RE DOING IT ON WEDNESDAYS? WEDNESDAY.
THIS IS THE LAST I, THEN I WANNA DO ONE IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY.
WE USUALLY DO ON WEDNESDAYS IN THE MORNING OR AFTERNOON WE DO FOIA.
I'M DOING THE LOCAL OFFICIALS.
THIS ONE FOR THE NEXT, 'CAUSE THE NEW NEW MEMBERS ARE DOING ELECTION CYCLE.
BUT THEN WE DO ONE ON JUST PUBLIC MEETINGS.
WE WANNA DO ONE ON JUST ELECTRONIC MEETINGS TOO.
EVENTUALLY I HAVE A, WE HAVE A LAW ENFORCEMENT ONE THAT'S TWO HOURS FOR OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT RECORDS AND OTHER RECORDS, LAW ENFORCEMENT SPEC FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND SO FORTH.
I APPRECIATE, I TRY NOT TO GET, I WANNA MAKE SURE I HIT THE HIGH POINTS TO STRESS THE POINT PART BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF STUFF IN HERE.
I MEAN, I HAVE TO, I HAVE TO LOOK THROUGH IT EVERY DAY.
PEOPLE ASK ME QUESTIONS AND LIKE I SAID, THERE'S THE APPLE PICKERS EXEMPTION, THERE'S THE FISHERIES EXEMPTION.
THERE'S CERTAIN ONE, SOME STATE AGENCIES ARE NOT STATE AGENCY UNTIL THEY HAVE THEIR OWN EXEMPTION.
I HAD A CALL ANOTHER DAY FROM THE, UH, OF THE, UH, I GUESS IT'S THE SPACE ASSOCIATION, THE VIRGINIA SPACE, UH, WHEN THEY, THEY'RE HAVING A MEETING, PEOPLE COME, NASA'S WANTING TO LOOK AND THEY'RE LIKE, AM I VOID A MEETING? IF I HAVE NA, NASA HAS TOP SECURITY IF THEY WANT US TO MEET.
I'M LIKE, NO, YOU CAN DO THIS, THIS, AND THIS.
BUT, SO YOU JUST GET TO CERTAIN THINGS LIKE THAT AND THEY'RE LIKE, HOLY COW, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THAT'S A PROBLEM TODAY.
AND UH, AND IT IS OKAY, BUT WE, WE TRY TO HELP YOU OUT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I ENJOY VISITING YOUR LOVELY TOWN.
I CAN'T WAIT TO BRING MY WIFE BACK.
UM, MY WIFE'S IN VIRGINIA, THAT'S WHY I'M VIRGINIA.
UM, SHE'S FROM MARTINVILLE ORIGINALLY, BUT WE HAVE A FARM OUTSIDE TAPPAHANNOCK IN ESSEX COUNTY.
AND I LIVE RIGHT NOW FROM PORT ROYAL ABOUT 15 MILES FROM PORT ROYAL WHERE THEY CALL IT JOHN'S BOOTH.
THAT'S ABOUT THE ONLY THING
BUT THAT'S THE ONLY THING IN THAT TOWN.
AND I'M RAISING MY THREE BOYS ON A FARM THERE.
UM, BUT SHE ALWAYS, I SAW THE APPLE PICKING WHEN I CAME BY AT THE APPLE AND SHE'S LIKE, SHE WANTS MY APPLE PICKING FOR THE KIDS.
SO I'LL BE UP HERE NEXT YEAR TO GO APPLE PICKING, I'M PRETTY SURE.
BUT I LOVE TO SEE YOUR DOWNTOWN TYPE OF OCK.
I LOVE TYPE OF OCK TO DO SOMETHING LIKE Y'ALL DONE.
BUT Y'ALL HAVE A GREAT STAR MOVIE THEATER, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY OF THE OF YOURS.
UM, BUT UH, JUST LIKE BEING HERE, IT'S NICE TO HAVE ME.
SORRY I MISSED HIM TO SAY THAT.
RICK DID, DID DID THEY, DID THEY PROMPT YOU
I WAS GONNA LOOK AT THE BEER MUSEUM THEN I STARTED LOOKING AT IT.
I WAS LIKE, DO THEY SERVE IN THERE?
[01:35:01]
YEAH, BECAUSE IT LOOKED LIKE, YEAH, I WAS, I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ABOUT MAKING BEER.THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE I CAN GET A DRINK IN THERE.
I WAS LIKE, IT IS 1130, BUT I'LL COME BACK FOR THAT BE IT.
SOUNDS LIKE YOU'VE GOT HALF AN ITINERARY READY TO GO, SO COME ON BACK.
IT SOUNDS REALLY NICE TO COME BACK UP HERE, BUT UH, NOW I KNOW YOUR, YOUR TOWN HAS CAPTURED AS MUCH AS, AS WINCHESTER, RIGHT? AND THE WAR Y'ALL TRADED LIKE BEING SWAPPING BACK AND FORTH, RIGHT? YEAH.
THAT'S WELL, MY WIFE GREW UP, LIKE I SAID, MARTINSVILLE NEAR STEWART.
SO, BUT LIKE WHERE WE LIVE, UM, IT'S PRETTY QUIETNESS IT COUNTY.
SO, BUT WE'RE RUNNING, WE MOVED BACK TO TAKE CARE OF THE FAMILY FARM AND SOME WANTED ABOUT BE IN VIRGINIA, TRYING TO GET MY BOYS TO SAY THEY FROM VIRGINIA.
SO THEY SAID THEY'RE FROM NASHVILLE.
HOW LONG DID AGO DID YOU MOVE HERE? SO JUST OVER TWO YEARS.
SO I HAVE A 15, A 10 AND AN 8-YEAR-OLD.
SO I'M HOPING THE 8-YEAR-OLD, THE 8-YEAR-OLD WILL BECOME A, THAT'S THE ONE I'M HOPING HE'S GONNA HAVE
EVEN MY, MY UVA, VIRGINIA TECH, HOPEFULLY MAYBE.
THAT'S MY BIG TECH IN MY AREA.
YEAH, NO, I THANK Y'ALL FOR HAVING ME.
AND UH, LIKE I SAID, I'D BE GLAD TO COME BACK SOMETIME, WHENEVER IN TWO YEARS, A FEW YEARS
ANY QUESTIONS? LIKE I SAID, IF Y'ALL HAVE QUESTIONS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW YOU MELANIE, AND UH, WE'LL THANK YOU.
UM, ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT DISCUSSION? YOU GUYS WANNA HAVE? HILLARY GONNA EMAIL WITH THE LIST SO WE GET ALL OUR CERTIFICATES.
AND THEN THERE'S ALSO COYA TRAINING AS WELL.
I DON'T THINK CONFLICT OF INTEREST, THEY'RE GOING ANY PERSON TRAINING FROM DECEMBER TO FEBRUARY OR SOMETHING BECAUSE THEY'LL BE 20.
SO YEAH, WE WILL FOLLOW UP WITH THE COYA TRAINING.
AND THAT'LL BE OBVIOUSLY DONE IT ON, IS THAT EVERY TWO YEARS AS WELL? THERE'S RECORDING.
I BELIEVE SO TOO BECAUSE I DID IT LAST MONTH.
MM-HMM,
SO AS PART OF, AND YOU CAN JUST DO IT ONLINE ANYTIME.
YOU DON'T NEED TO WAIT FOR THE WEBINAR.
UM, DID ANYBODY THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT IN OPEN DISCUSSION? JOE? WHAT TIME IS THAT MEETING TONIGHT? AND WHERE IS IT? IT IS HERE AT 7:00 PM SO THAT'S A WORK SESSION? IT IS A WORK SESSION.
IT'LL ALSO BE STREAMED ON TOWN HALL LIVE.
YOU CAN WATCH IT ONLINE IF YOU CHOOSE TO.
I MEAN, CLOSED ONLY DE MAYOR WILL COULD RECOGNIZE SOMEBODY TO SPEAK.
SO THERE IS NO OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC INPUT UNLESS THE MAYOR BECAUSE IT'S A WORK SESSION.
BECAUSE YEAH, PROBABLY WATCH IT FROM HOME THEN.
AND WE GET THAT ON THE TOWN'S WEBSITE.
IF THERE ISN'T ANY OTHER OPEN DISCUSSION, OUR NEXT MEETING IS, UH, JANUARY 6TH, MONDAY.
UM, HOPE EVERYBODY HAS A GREAT HOLIDAY SEASON.
AND, UH, TAKE, TAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
YEAH, I MOVE TO DO ADJOURN THE MEETING.
ALL IN FAVOR SECOND TO SAYING AYE.
ANYBODY OPPOSED? AND WANTS TO STAY HERE LONGER? ALRIGHT, THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH.