* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [Planning and Zoning Work Session on September 4, 2024.] [00:00:09] GOOD TO GO. OKAY, MS. POTTER, WILL YOU CALL THE ROLE PLEASE? CHAIRMAN NER. I'M HERE. COMMISSIONER NEIL. COMMISSIONER GILLESPIE. HERE. COMMISSIONER MARRAZZO. HERE. COMMISSIONER BROOKS. WHO? MS. ACT. DO WE HAVE A QUORUM, MS. POTTER? YES, WE DO. WE SHALL PROCEED. FIRST ITEM IS ITEM NUMBER 2 4 0 0 4 3 6. REZONING APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY KAREN ALEXANDER REQUESTING A ZONING MAP AMENDMENT TO RECLASSIFY A VACANT CAN PARCEL, UH, WOULD, UH, THE, TO GIVE IT PLEASE. OKAY. UH, SO APPLICATION 24 0 0 4 36 IS A REZONING APPLICATION REQUESTING A ZONING MAP AMENDMENT TO RECLASSIFY VACANT PARCEL IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP 20 A 12 DASH THREE ROCK 27 FROM C ONE COMMUNITY BUSINESS DISTRICT TO R THREE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT. UH, THE PARCEL IS LOCATED ON WEST ROSEBURG ROAD. UH, ATTACHED IN YOUR PACKET WAS A, A PLAT OF THE PROPERTY HIGHLIGHTED. THERE IS THE VACANT LOT IF YOU WENT OUT AND LOOKED AT THIS. THIS IS THE VACANT LOT THERE ON WEST STRASBURG ROAD, HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW. THE AERIAL, UH, MAP CURRENTLY, UH, THEY'RE OUTLINED, UH, SHOWS THE, UH, VACANT LOT THERE ON THIS PORTION OF WEST STRASBURG ROAD HERE. SO IT'S THAT VACANT LOT THERE AT THAT DEAD END STREET THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THOSE LOTS. IT IS ZONE C ONE. UH, IN THIS SECTION, THIS SECTION HERE IS ALL C ONE. AND RECENTLY, UH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND TOWN COUNCIL APPROVED A REZONING, UH, LOTS HERE FROM C ONE TO R THREE, IF YOU REMEMBER THAT. THAT IS FOR SOME, UH, TOWN HOMES THAT ARE GOING IN THERE WITH THE R THREE DEVELOPMENT. SO THAT WAS REZONED FROM C ONE TO R THREE. THAT'S THE CURRENT ZONING MAP OF THAT AREA. UH, HISTORICALLY SPEAKING, WE FOUND OUT THAT IN 1980, UH, THAT THOSE LOTS WERE RESIDENTIAL AND THEY CHOSE TO REZONE THOSE TO SEE ONE. UH, SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, OVER 40 YEARS AGO, UH, THOSE WERE ZONED, UH, REZONED FROM RESIDENTIAL TO COMMERCIAL. UH, WE'RE ASSUMING, UH, THEY DID THAT 44 YEARS AGO, UH, ANTICIPATING COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT ON THAT PART OF THE STREET. UH, AND THAT'S WHAT BASICALLY THE HOUSES OR THE LOTS LOOK LIKE, UH, BEFORE THE REALIGNMENT OF WEST BURG ROAD, THEY WOULD ACCESS THOSE LOTS, UH, FROM 55 THERE WITH THOSE LONG DRIVEWAYS. SO WE WAS ANTICIPATING, UH, YOU KNOW, 1980 WHEN THEY DID THE REZONING. UH, THEY WAS ANTICIPATING COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT GOING IN ON THIS STRETCH. NO COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT HAS HAPPENED, UH, WITH THESE PARCELS. UH, AND NOW WITH THE REALIGNMENT AND CONSTRUCTED BY VDOT TO PUT THIS WHAT HAMMERHEAD DEAD END DRIVEWAY HERE AT THE END, PROBABLY THE OPPORTUNITY TO DEVELOP COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES ON THAT STRETCH OF ROAD OR PROBABLY HINDERED THE USES WOULD PROBABLY BE DIMINISHED OR TO C ONE DISTRICT, UH, FOR COMMERCIAL BUSINESSES GONE IN THERE. THAT WAS A ROAD UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND BASICALLY WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TODAY. SO AGAIN, THIS IS C ONE. UH, WE LOOKED AT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UH, IN THIS AREA. IT'S IN THE, UH, NUMBER TWO, THE RIVERTON DISTRICT, UH, PART OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. AND SO IT, IT IS HIGHLIGHTED HERE, THIS LITTLE CORNER HERE SHOWING UP ON THE PART OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. SO, UH, MORE THAN LIKELY, UM, PROBABLY AN OVERSIGHT. UH, WHEN WE REVIEWED THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT, YOU KNOW, TWO YEAR STUDY ON THAT, UH, JUST PROBABLY ONE OF THOSE SMALL AREAS, UH, THAT WAS OVERLOOKED. WE DID NOT RECEIVE COMMENTS ABOUT THAT AT THAT TIME. UH, BUT NOW IT'S COME TO LIGHT THAT, UH, FOR THE, UH, C ONE DISTRICT, THERE AGAIN, I THINK THE USES ARE LIMITED. UH, YOU WOULD BE RUNNING A BUSINESS ON A DEAD END STREET. [00:05:01] UM, SO THAT'S A LITTLE BIT OF THE HISTORY OF THE PROJECT. UM, AND THEY ARE ASKING FOR A REZONING OF THAT ONE VACANT PARCEL TO RESIDENTIAL. SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, THE SURROUNDING AREAS ARE ALL COMMERCIAL, BUT THE ONE IN THE, IN THE BACK COMING OFF DUCK STREET WAS REZONED TO FROM C ONE TO R THREE. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, DEAD END STREET, UH, POTENTIALLY THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, HINDSIGHT'S 2020. WE SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT THAT, UH, LITTLE AREA, EVEN THOUGH WE HAD LOOKED AT THE ENTIRE TOWN IN THE BOUNDARIES AND ALL THE LOTS, UM, POTENTIAL AND OVERSIGHT ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND OUR, UH, SUBCONTRACTOR THAT DID THE WORK FOR THOSE FEW LOTS. UM, BUT THEY ARE ZONED C ONE NOW. THEY WERE RESIDENTIAL AND THE PROPERTY OWNER IS ASKING THEM TO GO BACK TO R THREE. UH, MEANING THAT IT DOES NOT ALIGN WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. COMPREHENSIVE PLAN STILL CAUSED THAT TO BE, UH, COMMERCIAL PROPERTY. UH, WE'VE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS AT SOME TIME WITH STAFF, UH, POTENTIALLY, UH, WE WOULD PROBABLY RECOMMEND AN AMENDMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UM, FOR THIS, BECAUSE BASICALLY WE LOOK AT THOSE LOTS BEEN ZONE C ONE FOR 40 PLUS YEARS AND NO COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT HAS HAPPENED. THAT KIND OF TELLS US AS A PLANNING STANDPOINT, SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH EITHER THOSE LOTS OR THE LOCATION BECAUSE BUSINESSES HAVE NOT BEEN INTERESTED IN DEVELOPING THAT AREA ON THAT DEAD END STREET. UM, SO THERE IS A COUPLE METHODS OR PROCEDURES TO AMEND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. UH, AND IF LAUREN WANTS TO ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT, UH, ON THE PROCESS TO AMEND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UH, THIS BODY COULD ENTERTAIN THAT. LAUREN, YOU WANT ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT ON THAT? UH, YEAH. SO WITH THE CONFERENCE OF PLAN AMENDMENT, UM, OUR TOWN CODE IS NOT IT, IT DOESN'T LAY OUT THE GROUND RULES FOR US, BUT STATE CODE IT APPEARS, WILL ALLOW THE GOVERNING BODY TO TAKE THE CONFERENCE PLAN AMENDMENT. SO THE APPLICANT CAN INITIATE YOURS AS PLANNING COMMISSION AND TOWN COUNCIL CAN INITIATE THIS. UM, YOU CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT HERE, UH, IN OUR FUTURE LAND USE DESCRIPTION OF THE COMMERCIAL. IT DOES STATE LIMITED MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL COULD BE A POTENTIAL USE HERE, WHICH WOULD MEAN THAT YOU COULD REZONE IT IN ALIGNMENT IF YOU AGREE THAT, YOU KNOW, LIMITED MULTIFAMILY RESIDENTIAL IS APPROPRIATE HERE, UM, GO FIRST, SISTANCE TYPICALLY THE WOULD PROCEED THE REZONING. YES. BUT WE HAVE ALREADY ACCEPTED THIS APPLICATION. WE'VE ALREADY, IT'S ALREADY BEEN ADVERTISED. UM, AND WE'VE DONE THAT PRIOR REZONING THAT'S ADJACENT TO IT. SO YOU CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT . YEAH, BUT IT'S, IT'S TOUCHING LIKE THE PROPERTY, IT SHARES A COMMON PROPERTY LINE. IT'S ADJACENT. UM, SO YOU CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT THAT IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO, SO TO THE, BUT I, FROM A PLANNING PERSPECTIVE, UNLESS EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE LOTS, THAT ZONE COMMERCIAL IS DEVELOPED AT THE SAME TIME, IT, THE COMMERCIAL ZONING THERE DOESN'T WORK. IT DOESN'T WORK WITH OUR REQUIREMENTS. AND, AND WITH THAT PROXIMITY TO 66 AND STROUDSBURG ROAD, YES, COMMERCIAL WOULD BE IDEAL, BUT HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL IS APPROPRIATE THERE BECAUSE YOU'RE CLOSE TO MAJOR TRAFFIC CORRIDORS FOR YEAH, I, I MEAN I'M NOT FOR OR AGAINST, I JUST, UH, I, IT'D BE MY OPINION IT SHOULD GO BEFORE COUNSEL. UH, I DON'T, I DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW THAT'S TRUE, BUT, BUT, UH, CERTAINLY THE AREA HAS BEEN HINDERED FROM COMMERCIAL BECAUSE OF ALL THESE DIVIDED LOCKS INTO LITTLE PIECES. SO IT WOULD TAKE A COOPERATIVE EFFORT OF MULTIPLE LOCKS IN ORDER TO MARKET THAT COMMERCIAL. AND YOU WOULD NEED FOR SOMETHING COMMERCIAL THERE, YOU WOULD NEED ACCESS OFF OF DUCK STREET. AND THAT, THAT PIECE THERE, UM, I THINK WHEN THAT INTERSECTION WAS INSTALLED, [00:10:01] THAT DEAD END HAMMERHEAD STREET REALLY HINDERED THE ABILITY FOR THAT TO BE DEVELOPED. YEAH. THE, THE INTERSECTION TO, TO BOROUGH ROAD WOULD, IF IT WERE TO BE FULLY DEVELOPED, PROBABLY WOULD'VE TO BE RECONFIGURED. AND ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU START TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION SETBACKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND COMMERCIAL USES AND WITH THEM BEING ADJACENT TO RESIDENTIAL, THAT STREET THERE MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO DEVELOP. YEAH. THE RISK OF BEING A PAIN, UH, IT, IT WOULD SEEM LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE SPECULATING, YOU KNOW, OF WELL, THIS ISN'T COMMERCIAL ANYMORE, BUT WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT PROVIDING DATA OR ANALYSIS TO SUPPORT IT, YOU KNOW, LIKE A, UH, BEST USE ANALYSIS THAT WOULD BE, SUCH AS A DEVELOPER GOING INTO A PLACE TO FIGURE OUT, HEY, I WANT TO DO WHAT KIND OF DEVELOPMENT HERE. WHAT, WHAT'S THE BEST USE FOR THIS LAND? BUT IT'S ALSO BEEN DONE COMMERCIAL FOR 40 YEARS AND IT HASN'T BEEN DEVELOPED COMMERCIALLY. I I, I'M NOT ARGUING WITH THAT, BUT, BUT THAT, THAT ALONE, THAT COULD BE FOR A LOT OF REASONS. AND SOME OF THOSE REASONS MIGHT BE ABLE TO BE OVERCOME. UH, AND I MENTIONED THAT IT SUPPOSE THREE OF THOSE LOT OWNERS GOT TOGETHER OR, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN IT BECOMES ATTRACTIVE. SO I, I DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY. IT'S BEEN MARKETED LIKE THAT FOR YEARS NOW. YEAH, A BUNCH OF US ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE CORNER. BUT YOU'VE GOT, IT'S A QUADRANT RESTRICTED. WE HAVE NO ACCESS TO THE HIGHWAY AND YOU CAN'T GET OUT THE BACK AFTER, AFTER, AFTER HE FINISHED PRESENTATION IF YOU'D LIKE TO COME. I'M SORRY, I DON'T EVEN HAVE TO PRESENT. I JUST WANTED YOU TO KNOW THAT WE DID TRY THAT AVENUE AND, AND I, THAT THAT STANDS THE REASON I WAS KIND OF ASSUMING NO, I ARGUE YOU DIDN'T, BUT JUST SUPPORTING DATA TO GO ALONG WITH IT, IT IS CHALLENGED. IF WE'RE SUPPORTING, WE EVENTUALLY MAKE SOME SORT OF RECOMMENDATION TO THE COUNCIL. WE SAY RATHER THAN, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, IT'S, IT'S SO SUPPORTING DATA AND, AND NOT BEING, YOU KNOW, SITTING THERE FOR 40 YEARS AND NOT BEING ABLE TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT. BUT IT ALSO HAS THERE BEEN OTHER, OTHER LOOKS AT THE LAND, SO TO SPEAK BY OTHER DEVELOPERS? THERE HAVE BEEN COMMERCIAL DEVELOPERS THAT HAVE LOOKED AT IT AND THEY HAVE PULLED OUT. THEY HAVE PULLED OUT. WELL, THAT SORT OF DATA, I DON'T, I DIDN'T HAVE SO THAT, THAT'S WHERE TO GO ALONG WITH IT, THAT THAT'S WHERE I WAS GETTING AT WITH THIS. BUT IN THOSE INSTANCES OF, THEY DON'T SUBMIT AN APPLICATION THAT'S JUST STAFF TELLING YOU NO, HEY, THESE PEOPLE HAVE COME IN AND SPOKEN TO US. I CAN'T PUT NECESSARILY SAY WHO PUBLICLY, BUT IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS LIKE WE HAVE HAD , WELL, A LOT OF THIS KIND OF STUFF IS A BIT FLUFFY WHEN SOMEONE COMES INTO THE OFFICE. AND I, AND I, I UNDERSTAND THAT NOT, NOT EVERYONE COMES IN WITH A DETAILED MARKETING PLAN TO PUT IN FRONT OF YOU TO GO, UH, UH, BUT JUST, JUST SO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO STAND ON. AND, AND THE REST OF THE LOTS, UM, REST OF THE LOTS UP THERE HAS ANY COMMUNICATION. DID ANYONE SAY ANYTHING? AND WE, THEY CAME BEFORE US IN THE PAST TRYING TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY AND UH, WE EXPLAINED THE, UH, RESTRICTIONS WITH THE ZONING AND WHAT THEY WANTED TO DO. AND IT DID NOT LINE UP WITH THE BUSINESS MODEL. OKAY. SO THEY HAVE, UH, WE HAD INFORMAL DISCUSSIONS, WHICH OUR CODE ALLOWS US TO, UH, WHEN THEY SUBMIT LIKE A SKETCH PLAN THAT JUST THE INFORMAL DISCUSSION OF POTENTIAL OF THE PROPERTY AND THOSE APPLICATIONS, THEY DID NOT SUBMIT AN APPLICATION AFTER WE HAD IN THE INFORMAL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE PROJECTS. YEAH. BUT, SO THE STRONGEST CASE FOR THIS IS MULTIPLE, LOTS WORKING TOGETHER AS I, AS I SAID. UM, BUT IT COULD BE DEVELOPED, UH, ANY NUMBER OF, UM, DESIGNATIONS. C ONE, R THREE, R TWO OR SOMEWHERE COULD WORK THERE DEPENDING ON THE RIGHT KIND OF BUSINESS OF COURSE. BUT WHATEVER WE DO HAS TO BE DONE. YEAH. THE ONE Z THAT WAS UP THERE, NOW WE'RE HAVING ANOTHER ONE Z AS WE DISCUSSED. THEY'LL, AND I ANTICIPATE THERE'LL BE ANOTHER ONE. AND I DON'T KNOW THE OPINION OF THE PEOPLE AROUND 'EM, LIKE THE LITTLE LOT THERE AS ARE LOOKING TO OUR LEFT. IF C COULD, THIS ONE WILL DEVELOP RESIDENTIAL, THE LOT TO THE LEFT IS, UM, CERTAINLY CURRENTLY RESIDENTIAL. PARDON? ALL OF THEM ARE CURRENTLY IN USE. THEY HAVE HOUSES ON IT. BUT THERE'S ZONE COMMERCIAL. CORRECT. THERE. THE USE CONTINUES. JUST CONTINUES SPREAD. SO YOU HAVE, BUT IF YOU, IF YOU'VE BEEN UP IN THE AREA, OF COURSE SOME OF THE HOMES ARE A LITTLE ROUGH YEAH. IN THAT THE ONE AT THE END IS ONE TERMITE BITE AWAY FROM FALLING DOWN. AND, AND SO THE, THE VISION FOR THAT PERSON MAY BE, HERE'S MY RETIREMENT, I GET TO SELL THIS COMMERCIAL. AND, AND SO THAT TAKES AWAY THE POSSIBILITY. THOSE THREE LOTS ON THE END RIGHT NOW ARE BEING MARKETED AS POTENTIAL FOR MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT REZONING. OKAY. EACH APPLICATION IS ON ITS OWN MERIT. YEAH. SO, BUT HAVING TO, HAVING TO PROCESS EACH ONE ONE AT A TIME IS WHERE, THAT'S WHERE FACT THE ARGUMENT REALLY SHOULD DEAL WITH THIS ALL AT ONCE. WELL, THAT, THAT'S A STAFF REVIEWED THIS AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE, UH, RECOMMENDING THAT YOU DO, THERE'S AN AMENDMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BASED ON THE, WHAT WE HAVE FOUND OUT IN THE PAST WITH THE OR, UH, POTENTIAL DEVELOPERS [00:15:01] THAT COME IN AND THE LACK OF DEVELOPMENT IN THAT AREA. SO WE, WE ARE RECOMMENDING AN AMENDMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR THESE LOTS HERE. UH, THE APPLICATION BEFORE YOU IS FOR THE REZONING OF THEM, INCLUDING THE ONES ON DUCK STREET? UH, NO, THIS SECTION, THAT FRONT, FRONT SECTION RIGHT NOW, YES, WE'RE HYPOTHESIZING IS, IS A GREAT IDEA, BUT THERE ARE TOO MANY NO, THERE'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO IMPLEMENT. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. RIGHT. THEY'RE ALL INDIVIDUAL HOUSES AND INDIVIDUAL RESIDENTS. SO SINCE WE'RE GOING TO AMEND OR TRY TO AMEND THE PLAN, IF, IF THAT, UM, WHICH WHICH I HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH, YOU KNOW, BY THE WAY, TO GO ALONG WITH, UM, CHANGE ALL OF THEM TO R THREE IS WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING. THE HAMMERHEAD WELL, WE'RE PROPOSING THAT ONE OF THE OPTIONS THING THAT, UH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION DOES HAVE THE ABILITY TO REQUEST, UH, PUT IN DISCUSSION TO TOWN COUNCIL FOR AN AMENDMENT OF THIS YEAH. OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. WOULD THIS BE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DONE EFFECTIVELY SIMULTANEOUSLY IF WE, IF THAT WAS SOMETHING WE WERE TO RECOMMEND TO COUNSEL, COULD THAT BE DONE AT THE SAME TIME THAT THIS IS GOING THROUGH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS HERE. AMENDMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN REQUIRES A PUBLIC HEARING. OF COURSE. WELL, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I MEAN. AND SO IT GO THROUGH THE STAGES, BUT THEN THIS WOULD, BUT EFFECTIVELY, IF WE WERE TO DO THAT, BE THE WORK SESSION FOR IT, IS THAT THE YEAH. IS THAT A POSSIBLE DIRECTION? YOU'RE ASKING IF WE HAVE TO THE WORK SESSION TO TALK ABOUT PROPOSING AN AMENDMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, RIGHT? OR THIS CAN BE YEAH, THIS JUST BE COMBINED IN A WAY. UM, YEAH, I MEAN, WELL, I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE POTENTIAL PROCESS WOULD BE. 'CAUSE THERE ARE TWO CONVERSATIONS THAT SEEMS GOING ON, RIGHT? SO THE APPLICATION BEFORE YOU IS FOR THE REZONING, RIGHT? RIGHT. AND THE WAY WE LOOK AT, FOR THE REZONING, THIS HAS BEEN REZONED. HERE ARE THREE. SO THIS IS, UH, WITH THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER, THE SAME ZONING. THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR FOR THE APPLICATION. THAT'S WHAT BEFORE YOU IS THE USE APPROPRIATE FOR THE REZONING. WHEN WE LOOK, WHEN STAFF LOOKED AT THIS AS A OVERALL PLANNING AREA, THAT'S WHEN WE LOOKED AT THERE SEEMS LIKE THERE'S PROBLEMS WITH THIS STRETCH OF THESE LOTS. RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHY STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT WE DO AN AMENDMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. A PROPERTY OWNER CAN ASK FOR THE AMENDMENT, THE PLANNING COMMISSION, AND ASK TOWN COUNCIL TO LOOK AT IT, WHICH WOULD COME BACK, OBVIOUSLY IT WOULD START WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON THIS AMENDMENT. YOU COULD PUT IN REQUEST IN FOR TOWN COUNCIL TO ASK FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THIS. MM-HMM. . MM-HMM FOR ALL THESE LOTS. AND, AND I THINK THE QUESTION IS, DOES THAT HAVE TO HAPPEN FIRST BEFORE WE, IT TYPICALLY WOULD HAPPEN FIRST, BUT I THINK THAT YOU CAN ALSO MAKE AN ARGUMENT JUST FOR THIS REZONING, JUST ON ITS OWN, SEPARATE FROM THE CONFERENCE PLAN AMENDMENT, AND THEN RECOMMEND A TOWN COUNCIL THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE AMENDED. BECAUSE IN THAT FUTURE LAND USE DESCRIPTION, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT DOES SAY MULTIFAMILY MAY BE APPROPRIATE. RIGHT? RIGHT. SO I THINK YOU CAN, YOU CAN MAKE, STAFF CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT YOU COUPLE THAT WITH IT'S NOT WORKING WITH IT BEING. SO YEAH, I MAKING THE CASE FOR THAT TO, TO, TO GO TO RESIDENTIAL. THAT SHOULD, SO I THINK WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU CAN POTENTIALLY MAKE TWO SEPARATE RECOMMENDATIONS TO TOWN COUNCIL, BUT SEPARATE THEM OUT. YOU'RE NOT SAYING LET'S RECOMMEND APPROVAL CONDITIONED UPON, YOU'RE SAYING LET'S RECOMMEND APPROVAL BECAUSE IT FITS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN BECAUSE OF OKAY. THE ABILITY OR THE STATEMENT TOP PLAN THAT SAYS, OKAY, CAN BE APPROPRIATE. AND THEN BY THE WAY, WE NEED TO DO A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT. AND I STAFF'S OPINION IS THAT IT NEEDS TO BE EVERYTHING THERE IN RED, NOT JUST, NOT JUST THE HAMMERHEAD. CORRECT. I THINK, BECAUSE I THINK THAT IF YOU JUST LEAVE THOSE THREE LOTS THERE, COMMERCIAL THAT ARE WEST OF THE REZONED R THREE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM. AND THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS, IF THEY EVER DECIDE TO SELL OR WANNA REZONE, REDEVELOP IT. AND THE USE PRIOR WAS RESIDENTIAL. THAT'S WHY THESE RIGHT, RIGHT. THESE LOTS HERE, THESE LOTS HERE AND DOWN INTO HERE. THESE WAS RESIDENTIAL IN 1980. AND SO WHAT THAT REZONING DID, IT ESSENTIALLY, BECAUSE THEY CONTINUED AS RESIDENTIAL USE, CREATED A LEGALLY NONCONFORMING SITUATION. AS LONG AS THEY STAY RESIDENTIAL, THEY CONTINUE IT, BUT TO REDEVELOP IT AND SO AND SO LEGALLY WE'RE NOT GONNA, IT'S NOT GONNA COME BACK AND BITE US IF WE DO THIS IN TWO SEPARATE PIECES. THEY CAN, THEY CAN PROCEED ON SEPARATE TRACKS SIMULTANEOUSLY. CORRECT. NOT SIMULTANEOUSLY, [00:20:01] BUT THE RE THE REZONING CAN PROCEED, CAN MOVE FORWARD TOWN, YOUR RECOMMENDATION COULD POTENTIALLY BE TO TOWN COUNCIL. WE NEED TO DO A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT. THEN AT THAT POINT THEY'LL OKAY, THEN THEY CAN KICK IT BACK TO YOU. RIGHT. AND THEN WE'LL GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS. STAFF WILL BRING YOU, UH, OKAY. AN AMENDED COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR THAT PORTION OF TOWN, A NEW MAP, NEW DESCRIPTIONS, ET CETERA. YOU'LL TAKE THAT TO PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN IT WOULD GO BACK TO COUNCIL FOR FINAL APPROVAL. OKAY. SO HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT MR. GILLES TESTIMONIAL? WELL, I, I, I'M ALL FOR CHANGING IT TO HARRE. UM, BUT I I, I'M LEERY OF, OF MAKING THE CHANGE BEFORE, UM, WE DO THAT AMENDMENT OKAY. UNDER UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THE, UM, WHAT COMES TO MIND. NO, ALL THE OTHER LOTS BEEN NOTIFIED OF THIS SURROUNDING THAT THIS IS GOING ON, I ASSUME. CORRECT. RIGHT. YES AND NO, NOBODY CAME PUBLIC HEARING WE GETTING AHEAD OF OURSELVES. THEY WERE INVITED TO THIS MEETING AS WELL. NO, THEY'VE BEEN NOTIFIED. NOT PUBLIC HEARING. PUBLIC HEARING. YEAH. SO THAT'S THE CONCERN. BUT THE ONE CONCERN I HAVE IS WHAT IF UM, SOMEONE ELSE OBJECTS TO, IF THIS WELL, THAT WE CROSS THAT BRIDGE, WE COME TO IT. YEAH. I'M JUST, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH THIS PROPOSAL OF HAVING TWO SEPARATE HANDLING THIS IN TWO SEPARATE TRACKS? ONE TO GET KAREN ALEXANDER HER REZONING. YEAH. I DON'T WANT TO DISENFRANCHISE GOING TO THIS POINT. SPENT THE MONEY TO GET TO HERE. AND YOU CAN ALWAYS LEAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN AS WELL. YEAH. THAT, THAT'S WHAT PART OF THE QUESTION TOO. COULD THIS BE DEFERRED FOR 60 DAYS OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, TO GIVE TIME FOR THE REST OF THE PROCESS TO TAKE, YOU CAN LEAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN THAT, THAT WOULD BE THE PROCEDURES. YOU WOULD LEAVE IT OPEN AND MS. LORENZO ABOUT THIS. I THINK WE'VE ALREADY SHOWN THAT THERE'S PRECEDENT IN THAT AREA. UM, I THINK THERE'S A LOT THERE, THERE ARE COMPLICATIONS TO IT. I'M NOT TRYING TO OVERSIMPLIFY IT IN ANY WAY, BUT WHEN IT SPECIFICALLY COMES TO THE REZONING APPLICATION AS IT STANDS AND THE ARGUMENTS FOR IT, THERE IS PRECEDENT AND IT'S BEEN THE CURRENT USE, IT'S BEEN THE HISTORICAL USE. UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I I WOULD BE HAVE A PERSONAL CURIOSITY OF WHAT THE PLAN IS. YOU KNOW, THIS, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT'S THIS GONNA TURN INTO AND BE YOU, I THINK THAT'D BE COOL TO KNOW OR FUN TO KNOW. BUT A AS IT LOOKS WITH THIS THING IN PARTICULAR, IT, IT HAS PRECEDENT. UM, AND THE AMENDMENT AS NEEDED IS SOMETHING THAT WAS NOTICED AT A LATER DATE. AND I DON'T THINK THAT IT WOULD NECESSARILY BE FAIR TO ASK AN APPLICANT WHO'S ALREADY COME AND GOTTEN ALL THIS WAY TO THEN HAVE PUSH PAUSE ON IT BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED PREVIOUSLY. RIGHT. UM, BUT I, I CAN SEE THE ARGUMENTS FOR BOTH SIDES AND, AND HONESTLY, AND I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, I, I AM ALL FOR REZONING JUST TO OUR THREE. I REALLY AM. BUT THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHEN WE STARTED LOOKING AT IT, WAS 'CAUSE WE WERE GOING THROUGH AND WE WERE SPOT ZONING EVERYTHING. AND THAT WAS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS. SO I, AGAIN, I I'M ALL FOR IT. IF THAT WAS ZONED RR THREE, I GO WITH IT. BUT I THINK WE NEED TO PUT THE APPLICATION FIRST FOR, UM, AN AMENDMENT AND, AND HOLD IT OPEN. YOU KNOW, I I MEAN, IT'S NOT, OKAY, SO YOU WANNA, YOU WANNA MAKE THE AMENDMENT TO THE ZONING, TO THE COMP PLAN FIRST. UM, WOULD YOU, MR. NEIL, WOULD YOU BE AGREEABLE TO PROCEEDING WITH THE APPLICATION IN FRONT OF US? NO, I, I, SHE WOULD BE COMFORTABLE PROCEEDING WITH THE APPLICATION. I, BECAUSE THE ONE ON THE OTHER SIDE, THERE'S ALREADY BEEN SPOT ALREADY ZONED R THREE. AND SO WE'VE ALREADY STARTED MARCHING DOWN THIS ROAD. I WOULD'VE PREFERRED IT WOULDN'T HAVE GONE THIS WAY, PER SE, BUT SINCE IT'S GONE THIS FAR, UM, AND MY MY LOGIC SAYS, UM, JUST AS YOU DESCRIBED, YOU KNOW, 40 YEARS AND NOTHING NOTHING'S HAPPENED TO GO ALONG WITH AND HAVING WALKED ALL AROUND THAT AREA, UM, TO, TO LOOK AT IT, THE, UM, I I, I WOULD, I WOULD, I WOULD GO AHEAD AND GO ALONG WITH IT, [00:25:01] GO ALONG WITH THE REZONING, THIS ONE AND WITH THE PRE PROVISO THAT WE ALSO WERE SUBMITTING A RECOMMENDATION TO LOOK AT THE REST OF THE LOTS TO BE REZONED AS WELL, TO AMENDMENT TO COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. BECAUSE WE WE WOULD BE PUNISHING HER AT THIS POINT. EXACTLY. AND, AND, AND, AND IN A WAY THAT'S BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE'S OMISSION IN, IN THE PROCESS INVER. AND THAT, THAT'S WHY I'M, UH, LEANING THAT WAY. BUT I WOULD, I WOULD, UM, I'M SUFFERING FROM MY BACKGROUND. I LOVE DATA , SO, SO, YOU KNOW, I I, YOU KNOW, PAGE THROUGH THE THEME OF THE STUDIES AND STUFF THAT GO ON HISTORICAL, BUT THAT'S NOT JUST GOING TO, NOT GONNA HAPPEN. SO, OKAY. AND, AND YOU'RE NOT, SO YOU TWO ARE ON THE SAME SHEET OF MUSIC? I THINK SO. I THINK SO. OKAY. OKAY. UM, BONNIE HAS ALREADY CONSENTED TO ADVERTISE. SO IT HAS BEEN ADVERTISED FOR PUBLISH SHARING DOWN THIS ROAD. YOU'RE DOWN THAT ROAD. SO, SO WE'LL, WE'LL PROCEED WITH THIS FOR A PUBLIC MEET, FOR A PUBLIC MEETING. AND IF, IF THE STAFF CAN DRAFT A PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THE COP PLAN, DO WE NEED TO BRING OUT TO A WORK SESSION? OR CAN WE DEAL WITH THAT AT THE PUBLIC AT OUR NEXT PUBLIC MEETING? YEAH, IT'S JUST NEW AGENDA ITEM. IT JUST A NEW AGENDA ITEM SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT. WE COULD DO THE CONSENT TO ADVERTISE IN SEPTEMBER FOR AN OCTOBER PUBLIC HEARING. NO, IT'S GOTTA GO TO TOWN COUNCIL. IT'S GONNA GO TOWN. NO, IT'S GOTTA GO TO TOWN COUNCIL. DON'T THINK SO. AND PLUS WE NEED TO ACTUALLY GATHER DATA FOR THAT. SO THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE SOME ASSIGNED, I'LL JUST FOREWARN YOU, THE DATA GATHERING IS GOING TO BE LIMITED. IT'S, IT'S A LIMITED AREA THAT, THAT TO GO IN. WE'RE NOT TRYING TO DO THE WHOLE TOWN. WE DON'T NEED TO HIRE AN ACCOUNTING FIRM TO, TO DO SOMETHING. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. IF IT'S NOT 400 PAGES, HE DOESN'T WANT 400 PAGES. ANYWAY. THE, UM, I'M, I'M JUST THINKING STAFFING AND CONSULT WITHIN, YOU KNOW, WITHIN TOWN THERE'S, WITHIN THE RECORDS, THERE HAS TO BE QUITE A BIT OF DATA THAT COULD BE PULLED. UM, I'M ASSUMING I'M GIVE YOU A BLANK LOOK THAT SCARES ME. , WE ONLY PROCESS APPLICATIONS OBJECT. OKAY. SO WHEN WE HAVE INFORMAL DISCUSSIONS ON PROJECTS, THAT'S HOW THE CODE IS SET UP. THOSE ARE INFORMAL THERE, THERE'S NO PERMIT APPLICATIONS FOR THEM. SO THERE'S NO DATA TOGETHER. SO THERE HAS TO BE HUMAN MEMORY OF WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE CRITERIA TO APPROVE IT. THEN WE HAVE TO DETERMINE WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF THE POSSIBLE. SO I CAN PROVIDE YOU, WE CAN GATHER INFORMATION FOR YOU. YEAH. I CAN PROVIDE YOU FRAMEWORK OF HOW YOU MAKE A DECISION FOR A REZONING. OKAY. UM, BUT ARE YOU, ARE YOU, IS YOUR CONCERN HOW DO WE APPROVE THIS REZONING? OR IS YOUR CONCERN, HOW DO WE APPROVE A DRAFT APPROPRIATELY? THE COMP PLAN, I WANNA MAKE SURE FOR THE COMP PLAN. OKAY. COMP, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE COMP PLAN. COMP COMP, THE STAFF WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH THAT GUIDANCE AND THAT LITERATURE AT THE, THE APPROPRIATE TIME. BUT TONIGHT, LIKE, YEAH. ARE THERE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE MERITS OF NO, I UNDERSTAND. UNFORTUNATELY THEY'RE INTERTWINED. YEAH, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS APPLICATION. MR. LESKI DOESN'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE MERIT OF THIS APPLICATION? NO. I INTERVIEW AND YOU'D LIKE TO, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ASK THE APPLICANT ANY QUESTIONS? I JUST HAVE PERSONAL CURIOSITIES, BUT NOTHING IN RELATION TO THE MERIT OF DO, DO WE, IT IS BEST NOT TO ENGAGE WITH THE APPLICANT AT THE WORK AT THIS STAGE. RIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. SORRY ABOUT THAT. THAT'S REALLY MORE RESERVED FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING. OKAY. OKAY. SO WE DON'T TAKE MOTION, WE COURT SESSION. SO WE'VE GOT A CONSENSUS HERE. WE KNOW THE DIRECTION WE'RE GOING. AGREED. OKAY. , WERE YOU BRIEFING? NO, NOT NOT FOR THIS APPLICATION. OKAY. OKAY. SO MOVING ON TO 2 4 0 0 4 8 3 SPECIAL PERMIT, SPECIAL USE PERMIT APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY THE SALVATION ARMY FOR A MURAL. PLEASE TELL US MORE. SO, PERMIT APPLICATION 24 0 0 0 4 83. SPECIAL USE PERMIT APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY THE SALVATION ARMY FOR AN ARTISTIC MURAL EXCEEDING 60 SQUARE FOOT IN AREA ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE BUILDING, LOCATED AT 2 96 SOUTH STREET, IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP 20 A SIX DASH 16 B. UH, THE PROPERTY IS ZONE C ONE IN THE COMMUNITY BUSINESS DISTRICT. THE ARTISTIC MURAL WILL BE APPROXIMATELY 14 AND A HALF BY 18 AND A HALF FEET IN SIZE, WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY 268 SQUARE FEET. SO A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON, UH, THERE'S A PROPERTY LOCATED AT 2 96 SOUTH STREET, THE AERIAL MAP, [00:30:01] UH, THE BUILDING AND THE PARKING LOT HERE. THIS IS THE SIDE WHERE THE MIRROR WILL GO ONTO FACING THE PARKING LOT. UH, SO PER TOWN CODE, THIS IS WHY THIS, UH, COMES BEFORE YOU AS PER TOWN CODE 1 75 1 0 6 84. UNDER DEFINITIONS ASSIGNED IS ANY DEVICE EMPLOYING LETTERS, WORD, SYMBOLS, ET CETERA, USED OR INTENDED TO ATTRACT THE ATTENTION OF THE PUBLIC FROM STREETS, SIDEWALKS, OR OTHER OUTSIDE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAYS OR THIS PURPOSE OF THIS ARTICLE. THE TERM SIGN SHALL BE INCLUDE ALL STRUCTURAL MEMBERS. THAT'S OUT OF OUR COUNT CODE FOR DEFINITIONS. AND A WALL SIGN UNDER THAT PART OF THE CODE IS A SIGN ATTACHED TO A WALL OR PAINTED ON OR AGAINST A FLAT VERTICAL SURFACE OF A STRUCTURE WHICH DISPLAYS ONLY ONE ADVERTISING SURFACE. NOW. SO WITH THOSE DEFINITIONS, WE CAN DETERMINE ANY MURAL IS ASSIGNED PER THE DEFINITION IS IT IS USED OR INTENDED TO ATTRACT THE ATTENTION OF THE PUBLIC, THEREFORE, A WALL SIGN PERMIT IS REQUIRED AND THE MAXIMUM SIZE IS DETERMINED BY THE LENGTH OF THE BUILDING. THE WALL, WHICH IS ONE SQUARE FOOT OF SIGN PER LINEAR FOOT OF THE BUILDING WITH A MAXIMUM OF 60 SQUARE FEET. SO NORMALLY WE'D SAY IF YOU HAD A BUILDING WALL LENGTH, 30 FOOT IN LENGTH, THE MAXIMUM SIZE OF THAT SIGN COULD ONLY BE 30 SQUARE FEET. SO THOSE LARGER BUILDINGS, UH, WITH A WALL LENGTH CAN GO UP TO 60 SQUARE FEET MAXIMUM. SO TOWN CODE 1 75, 10 B2B THREE A, A WALL OR MARQUES SIGN, ONE SQUARE FOOT PER LINEAR FOOT OF THE BUILDING WIDTH OF WHICH THE SIGN IS TO BE ATTACHED UP TO A MAXIMUM 60 SQUARE FEET. HOWEVER, ARTISTIC MURALS CONTAIN BUSINESS OR PRODUCT ADVERTISING MAY BE APPROVED FOR A SIZE EXCEEDING 60 SQUARE FEET BY SPECIAL PERMIT. SO THAT'S WHY THAT IS COMING BEFORE YOU AS THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND, UH, WILL BE, UH, FURTHER TO THE TOWN COUNCIL. SO ONLY WITH THESE ARTISTIC MURALS CAN THEY GO WITH THE SIZE GREATER THAN 60 SQUARE FEET. SO THAT'S WHY A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS REQUIRED. THAT IS THE RENDERING OF THE PAINTING THAT'LL BE ON, UH, THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING TO PUT ON THERE, UH, ON THAT SIDE OF THE BUILDING FACING THE PARKING LOT. SO A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS REQUIRED FOR ANYTHING THAT EXCEEDS 60 SQUARE FEET. SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO DETERMINE, UH, ONE IS, UH, THIS SIGN APPROPRIATE FOR THE USE. AND ON THIS BUILDING AND WITH THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, IT EXCEEDS THIS, YOU KNOW, SIX, THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS REQUIRED BECAUSE IT EXCEEDS THE SIZE, THE MAXIMUM SIZE ALLOWED. OKAY. QUESTIONS? IS THERE ANYTHING IN CODE ABOUT UPKEEP FOR THESE SORTS OF, UH, PIECES IN, THERE IS NOTHING IN THE CODE FOR UPKEEP ON THESE. OKAY. UH, THESE ARE ARTISTIC MURALS. MM-HMM. . UM, SO WE DO HAVE SOME PROVISIONS, UH, OTHER SIGNS, BUT NOTHING THAT RELATES TO THE UPKEEP OF THESE. UH, WITH THE, THERE IS PART OF THE SIGN WITH THE, THE TYPE OF SIGNS. BUT THIS WOULD, UH, WITH THE RENDERING, IT FALLS, IT, IT, IT MEETS ALL THOSE PARTS THAT IT IS CONSIDERED A SIGN BY THE RENDERING. MM-HMM. . SO IT'S THE SORT OF THING WHERE I'VE BEEN, AND MAYBE THIS IS OUTSIDE OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, UM, BUT IF IN 20 YEARS IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE PAINT'S CRACKING, IT DOESN'T, IT LOOKS NOT GREAT ANYMORE. THERE'S NOTHING THAT WE COULD DO TO HAVE IT RESURFACED OR REVAMPED. NO. BUT THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY IS IN THERE. I'M ASSUMING THEY WOULD WANT TO, OF COURSE. OH, ABSOLUTELY. NO, I'M NOT, I'M NOT DOUBTING THAT. UH, I, I'VE JUST SEEN IN OTHER PLACES WHERE THEY WEREN'T KEPT UP AND THEN OVER TIME IT WENT FROM A BEAUTIFICATION TO A DETRIMENT. UM, AND SO IT'S NO JUDGMENT OR COMMENT AT ALL ABOUT THIS SPECIFIC APPLICANT, BUT MORE OF A GENERAL UNDERSTANDING OF IT IS IT IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. MM-HMM. FOR THIS TYPE OF SIGN FOR A MURAL, UH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION COULD MAKE, UH, CONDITIONS PLACED ON IT BECAUSE IT IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. MM-HMM. . SO IF YOU, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE ENTERTAINING OR [00:35:01] YOU'RE CONSIDERING, YOU CAN PLACE CONDITIONS ON THE APPROVAL OR RECOMMENDATIONS OF APPROVAL FOR THE TOWN COUNCIL. ON THE UPKEEP OF IT, THERE'S ALSO A REVOCATION AVENUE. YES. WITH ANY SPECIAL USE PERMIT REVOKED. YEAH. IT COULD BE REVOKED. YOU COULD PUT CONDITIONS ON IT. IT COULD BE REVOKED IF YOU, IF, UH, DETERMINES THAT FOR WHATEVER REASON SPECIAL USE PERMITS CAN BE REVOKED. IT DEPENDS ON THERE'S RECOURSE IN, SORRY, SORRY. BUT YOU COULD PUT CONDITIONS ON IT IF YOU CHOSE TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE TOWN COUNCIL TO CONSIDER, IS IT PART OF A GENERAL PLAN? DO YOU KNOW, TO IMPROVE THE PARKING LOT REPAY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? WE JUST LOOK AT THE APPLICATION BEFOREHAND, JUST BEFORE US, UH, WELL AS IT WITH, UM, SPECIAL USE PERMITS SINCE NOW THERE'S THE RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT GO ALONG WITH IT EXCEPT, AND THEN IT BECOMES A LITTLE SOFTER, A LITTLE FLUFFIER AND OPEN TO INTERPRETATION AS I SEE THIS. SO IT KIND OF LEAVES US WITH LOOKING AT, UM, UH, CRITERIA THAT ISN'T NECESSARILY WRITTEN DOWN FOR, LIKE YOU SAY, FOR THE AESTHETICS OR THE REPAINTING AND THE MAINTAINING, ALTHOUGH, AND UM, SO WHEN I LOOKED AT THIS, I SAID, UM, I TRIED TO, IT IS NOT GOING TO DISTRACT TRAFFIC OR ACCIDENTS. AND I, I DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEM WITH IT ON THAT. IT'S AESTHETICALLY PLEASING AND WITHIN THE THEME OF THE TOWN DESIRE, WE, WITH THE MOUNTAINS, UH, WE HAVE THE TRAILS AND THERE'S A BEAR . THAT SOUNDS GOOD. UM, UNLIKELY TO CAUSE A FLURRY OF OTHER LONG, LARGE SIGNS ALONG SOUTH STREET WITH UNDESIRABLE AESTHETIC EFFECTS. WELL, UNLESS THEY'RE GONNA PUT IN, YOU KNOW, UM, UH, I I WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, SOMEONE PAINTING A GIANT MURAL WITH SPARK PLUG, HOLDING A FAN BELT, YOU KNOW, STANDING ON THE ROAD OR SOMETHING, IT DOESN'T FIT INTO THE THEME OR DOING . SO I I, I DON'T SEE THAT. AND PLUS THERE'S NO OTHER REAL BUILDINGS THAT COULD DO THAT WITH GOING THAT DIRECTION, BY DOING, DOING IT. AND IT'S LIKELY TO BE MAINTAINED BY THE BUSINESS IS WHAT I WOULD SAY SALVATION ARMY IS THOUGH. THEY'VE, THEY'VE BEEN AROUND A WEEK OR TWO , SO THEY'RE LIKELY TO MAINTAIN. UM, AND UM, AND I I, WHEN I LOOK AT THE BUILDING A SMALLER MURAL TO STAY WITHIN THE, THE BOUNDS OF THE CODE, IT, IT REALLY WOULD NOT BE, IT, IT WOULD LOOK FUNNY. UH, IT WOULD NOT BE AESTHETICALLY PLEASING. AND SO THAT, THOSE ARE THE CRITERIA THAT I WOULD SUPPORT TO THIS. AND THE CONDITION OF BEING MAINTAINED AFTER. WOULD YOU INSPECT A SIGN AFTER IT WAS COMPLETED? UH, WE CAN, YES. AND WE CAN DO AN INSPECTION ON THAT JUST TO, TO SEE THAT IT, IT WAS INDEED TO, AND HERE WE WE'RE FLUFFY AGAIN. UH, A REASONABLE STANDARD. WELL, I THINK ARTISTIC MURALS ARE, UH, SUBJECTIVE OBJECT. SO WE, THE RENDERING BEFORE YOU IS WHAT WE ANTICIPATE BEING PLACE THERE. IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE RENDERING BEFORE YOU THEN WAS SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES. YES. OKAY. DID YOU HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION, MS? UH, NO. UM, I JUST LIKE THAT THEY'RE USING VIRGINIA PLANTS CONSISTENT WITH, OH, THOSE ARE PAINTED PLANTS. I THOUGHT THEY WERE . I THOUGHT THEY WERE. THIS IS OF PLANTS THAT WOULD BE PLANTED THERE. NO, I THINK THAT WOULD BE, THAT WOULD BE FUN. MR. GILLESPIE, DO YOU HAVE ANY? NO, I HAVE NOTHING. YOU KNOW, AT, IF, IF IT EVER BECOMES TO Y'ALL'S QUESTION, IF IT EVER BECAME TO WHERE IT WAS A EYESORE, WE COULD REVOKE THE PERMIT. BUT I HAVE NOT, THERE'S ANY EXPECTATION, ANY EXPECTATIONS OF DOING IT. BUT NO, I MEAN, BUT THERE ARE PROVISIONS IN THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE THAT ALSO PROTECT AGAINST LIKE CRACKED. AND IT ADDS, IT MIGHT BE, IT ADDS TO, IT ADDS TO THE TIME. SHARP. YEP, IT DOES DEFINITELY ADD. BUT YOU CAN ENVISION THAT SOMEDAY THEY'LL MOVE TO ANOTHER BUILDING AND THEN THE BUILDING IS ABANDONED AND, AND THE, THE GUY WITH THE SPARK BUTTON MOVES IN, YOU KNOW, THEN HE WON'T WANT THAT SIGN UP. NO , HE WON'T WANNA MAINTAIN IT. CERTAINLY. AND I, I THINK, I THINK THE POINT THAT YOU MIGHT ABOUT DIMENSIONS, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE THAT BIG BECAUSE OTHERWISE WITH ALL THE SPEED OF TRAFFIC GOING BY THERE ON, UH, ON SOUTH STREET THERE, IT WOULDN'T BE SEEN IF IT WAS NOT SMALLER. SO I THINK IT DOES THE JOB, EVEN THAT MATTER. I COMMEND THE APPLICANT FOR A SENSE OF CHARM AND ARTISTIC. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. AESTHETICALLY PLEASING DEVELOPMENT. I LIKE BEARS , ESPECIALLY MY BACKYARD. I WOULD'VE HAD A CAN OF PAINT IN MY CAR FOR . NO FURTHER DISCUSSION NEEDED ON THIS. WE'LL, WE'LL BRING THESE FORTH, BOTH APPLICATIONS TO THE PUBLIC HEARING. UH, PROBABLY, UH, SINCE IT IS A PUBLIC HEARING, WE WILL, STAFF WILL PROBABLY PRESENT THE SAME INFORMATION. 'CAUSE IT IS A PUBLIC HEARING FOR, UH, FOR ANY COMMENTS THAT, SO YOU'LL PROBABLY BE SEEING THIS STUFF AGAIN. IT'LL BE PUT IN YOUR APP, UH, YOUR PACKET [00:40:01] TO REVIEW YOU THERE. ANY ADJACENT BUSINESSES THAT WILL ACTUALLY BE LOOKING AT THIS GIVEN THE LOCATION? YES. FACING THEIR PARKING LOT IN THE STREET. YES. NOBODY ELSE TESTIFIED IT. WELL, IT IS A PUBLIC HEARING SINCE SPECIAL USE PERMIT. SO YOU NEVER KNOW. WE DON NEED TO BE NOTIFIED. YEAH, WE'LL PUT THE SIGNS UP AND EVERYTHING ELSE. AND, UH, SO WE'LL MOVE FORWARD FOR THE SEPTEMBER PUBLIC HEARING ON THESE TWO ITEMS. OKAY. THAT WAS GOOD. ANY OTHER ITEMS, COLLEAGUES? NO. OKAY. SO DO I HEAR HIM MOVE TO ADJOURN? UH, ONE OTHER COMMENT. UH, IT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO OUR TRAINING SESSIONS. UH, JUST WORD OF ADVICE IS, UH, NOT TO HAVE CELL PHONES UP FRONT DURING YOUR PUBLIC HEARINGS. JUST ONE, UH, ADVICE FROM THE TRAINING WE RECEIVED LAST WEEK. SO WE JUST ASKED WHICH TRAINING, WHICH TRAINING WAS THIS? UH, FOR THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS, BUT IT WAS FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION ALSO. SO, UH, PART OF THAT WAS ADVISED THAT WE DO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE BZA PLANNING COMMISSION, THOSE PUBLIC HEARINGS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE YOUR CELL PHONES OR USE YOUR CELL PHONES UP ON DEIA DURING PUBLIC HEARINGS. SO JUST, WE'RE JUST PUTTING THAT OUT THERE AS ADVICE FROM STAFF. RIGHT? WELL, I I THINK THAT WAS, THAT WAS DONE WHEN WE DIDN'T HAVE THE PASSWORD FOR THE WIFI WELL, UH, IN THE BUILDING. BUT I THINK THAT PROBLEM HAS BEEN SOLVED. I THINK, THINK, UH, MY UNDERSTANDING OTHER JURISDICTIONS, UM, HAD BEEN BROUGHT TO THEIR ATTENTION THAT THEY WERE NOT BEING USED APPROPRIATELY. I'LL JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT. OKAY. SO I JUST, WELL, WHEN YOU HAVE AN ADJOURNMENT OF A MEETING, YOU ADJOURN THE MEETING AND WE DON'T HAVE A MEETING WITHIN A MEETING, SO JUST MM-HMM, . SO JUST THAT'S, THAT'S ADVICE FROM TOWN STAFF WITH YOUR CELL PHONES. YOU CAN USE YOUR TABLETS OFF OBVIOUSLY TO CONDUCT TOWN BUSINESS. BUT, UH, I WOULD ASK YOU TO REVERT FROM USING YOUR CELL PHONES AND ALSO FOR NEXT MONTH'S WORK SESSION. SO IF WE DO HAVE A FULL BOARD, UM, WE WILL START GOING THROUGH THE ZONING ORDINANCES. AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE NOT GOTTEN ANY OF YOUR COMMENTS, PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR COMMENTS. UM, AND THEN ALSO AS FAR AS TRAINING GOES, CONNIE HAS SENT OUT AN EMAIL, UM, MAKE SURE IF YOU NEED TO GO TO TRAINING, LET US KNOW WHAT YOUR PREFERENCE IS AND THE DATES AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I THINK THE FIRST, UH, LIVE TRAINING'S IN JANUARY. YES. THE CLOSING IN MARCH. RIGHT. THEN THEY HAVE A MEETING IN VIRTUAL MEETING APRIL HAVE, YEAH. SO KEEP THAT IN MIND. LEMME ASK. THAT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION. THEY'LL GIVE YOU ADDITIONAL READINGS AND YOU'LL HAVE HOMEWORK SIMILAR TO, BUT IT'S, IT'S VALUABLE TRAINING. IT'S VERY VALUABLE. YOU CAN FIND EMAIL ABOUT, UM, DISCUSSION FOR FUTURE AGENDAS. I PROBABLY DID. I I, I GOTTA SAY I HAVE BEEN HOME FOR THREE DAYS HAVING BEEN GONE FOR. OKAY. I DON'T WANT, AND THEN ALSO, UM, YOU, THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS BEFORE ABOUT HAVING PUBLIC WORKS OR SOMEBODY COME AND DISCUSS TOWN INFRASTRUCTURE, THINGS LIKE THAT. WE CAN SCHEDULE THAT FOR THE NEXT MEETING AS WELL. NEXT WORK SESSION. THE NEXT WORK SESSION. SO THAT, THAT'S ON THAT WOULD BE IN OCTOBER. SO THE OCTOBER WORK SESSION, WE CAN DISCUSS THE INFRASTRUCTURE ASPECT AND THEN ALSO DIVE INTO THE ZONING ORDINANCE. POSSIBLY A MEMBER OF THE TOWN COUNCIL COME REVIEWING THEIR, THIS GROUP WE SERVE THAT. UM, WOULD YOU, WHAT WOULD YOU WANT? WELL, THEIR EXPECT THEIR EXPECTATIONS, THEIR PART AS PART OF THEIR VISION FOR THIS GROUP. JUST, JUST ASKING IF THAT'S A POSSIBILITY. THAT WOULD, I MEAN THAT WOULD POTENTIALLY, POSSIBLY JOINT MEETING. SO YEAH. BOARD JOINT WORK SESSION. UM, I CAN DISCUSS THAT WITH THE TOWN MANAGER AND CAN DISCUSS IT. OKAY. JUST, UH, SOMETHING, SOMETHING APPROPRIATE THAT ITSELF WOULD BE, UM, WHEN THEY WERE, WOULD BE CONSIDERED MEETING. IF THEY WERE GIVING US DIRECTION OF THEIR VISION. WHY DON'T, UH, WHY DON'T WE WAIT UNTIL, LET ME HAVE THAT. WELL THAT, THAT'S PART OF WHY WITH THE EMAIL AND EVERYTHING YEAH. BECAUSE THAT WAS PART OF THAT WITH GOING, THAT IS NOT A GOOD TIME TO OKAY, FAIR ENOUGH. CONTINUE. UH, DO WE KNOW WHO'S GONNA BE ADDRESSING THE, THE TRUCTURE QUESTIONS? I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S GONNA BE CALLED A WORKS . SO WE, WE THOUGHT IT'D BE BEST TO HAVE A FULL BOARD YEAH. PLANNING COMMISSION. RIGHT, RIGHT. UH, FOR THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND FOR THESE OTHER QUESTIONS YOU HAD. [00:45:01] RIGHT. AND THIS IS, THIS WAS UH, IN RESPONSE TO A COUPLE QUESTIONS, UH, ABOUT THE WATER AND DO WE HAVE A SHORTAGE OF WATER, HEAR ABOUT LUNCH. AND ALSO IF YOU GUYS HAVE QUESTIONS LIKE THAT, MAKE SURE YOU CC STAFF. MAKE SURE THAT WHEN YOU GUYS ARE COMMUNICATING THAT YOU'RE CCING CONNIE AND I, UM, AND THAT WAY AS A CLERK, WE HAVE TO KEEP THE RECORDS. SO CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE POTENTIALLY HAPPENING IF THEY'RE PRIVATE, THAT'S ONE THING. IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, TOWN THAT MAKE SURE CONNIE, CONNIE, I BELIEVE CONNIE WAS, 'CAUSE IF TWO OF YOU ARE EMAILING LIKE THE CHAIR, YOU'RE GETTING INTO THREE PEOPLE HAVING A CONVERSATION, WHICH IS NOT LEGAL. AND IF IT'S CONTEMPORANEOUS, IT'S A VIOLATION OF FOIA. I MEAN IT'S A MEETING THAT, THAT HASN'T BEEN NOTICED AND SO ON. SO IT WOULD POTENTIALLY BE A FOIA VIOLATION. IT HAS, IT HASN'T BEEN GOING BACK AND FORTH. RIGHT. WE JUST TWO PEOPLE EMAILING, ONE PERSON MEETING. BUT THAT, THAT'S, AND WE'LL PROBABLY BRING THIS UP AT THE OCTOBER MEETING AGAIN BECAUSE WE HAVE A NEW MEMBER, SO FAIR ENOUGH. YEAH, EVERYBODY'S DON'T LET , THAT'S JUST WAY TO CONDUCT THE MEETING A BIT. SO JUST REEMPHASIZE IT. AND THEN WE'LL ALSO POTENTIALLY NEED TO ELECT VICE CHAIR IN OCTOBER AS WELL. 'CAUSE WE'LL HAVE A FULL BOARD. WILL EVERYBODY BE OFFICIALLY SEATED BY THEN? THEY ALREADY ARE. YES THEY ARE. THEY ALREADY ARE. WE JUST, WERE NOT ABLE TO GET AHOLD OF THAT. ALRIGHT, I MOVE, WE ADJOURN. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.