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I'M GONNA CALL THE FRONT[Town Council Work Session on May 6, 2024.]
TOWN COUNCIL REGULAR WORK SESSION FOR MONDAY, MAY 6TH ORDER.MS. PERLEY, CAN WE DO A ROLL CALL? MAYOR
ALRIGHT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AND, AND AS MOST COUNCIL KNOW, MR. LTZ IS NOT WITH US TONIGHT, BUT PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING ON THE LIST IS, UM, MS. CAPISH IS
SO, UM, WE HAVE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ITEMS THAT ARE SLATED FOR A PUBLIC HEARING ON TUESDAY, MAY 28TH.
UM, OBVIOUSLY WE WILL DISCUSS EACH OF THESE.
UM, I DO WANNA ASK, SO IT'S SAYS, SLATED FOR IT, IF COUNSEL THROUGH OUR CONVERSATION DECIDES THAT IT'S, THAT THEY'RE NOT READY TO PUT ON A PUBLIC HEARING, WE COULD STILL DO THAT, RIGHT? YES.
I JUST KNOW SOMETIMES THERE'S TIME LIMITS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO IT IS TO THAT IT WILL BE ADVERTISED TOMORROW, RIGHT? IF YEAH.
DEPENDING ON, DEPENDING ON TONIGHT, YEP.
SO, MS. KISH, WE'LL START OFF WITH THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTAL AT 1400 OH, WINCHESTER PIKE.
THERE'S SO MANY ITEMS. I PREPARED A POWERPOINT TONIGHT TO HELP KEEP THEM ON TRACK.
WE LOVE, WE LOVE THE ORGANIZATION,
SO FOR THIS, UH, REQUEST, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A FULL HOUSE RENTAL.
SO THERE WE ARE THREE BEDROOMS, THEREFORE, THERE WOULD BE NO MORE THAN SIX OCCUPANTS.
UH, STAFF CONDUCTED AN INSPECTION ON MARCH 27TH, AND PROPERTY WAS FOUND TO BE IN COMPLIANCE PLANNING COMMISSION HELD THE PUBLIC HEARING.
APRIL 17TH, THEY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL WITH NO ADDITIONAL UM, CONDITIONS.
ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS APPLICATION? I JUST HAVE ONE.
SO FOR IT TO BE A WHOLE HOUSE RENTAL RIGHT.
BUT THEY WANNA BE ABLE TO DO IT AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL? YEAH.
I WAS JUST, I WAS JUST THINKING BECAUSE THAT THEY CAN TURN IT AROUND MORE OFTEN.
IT'S NOT ONE OF THE INSTANCES WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU'LL HAVE YOUR HOUSE AND MAYBE YOU'VE GOT LIKE A SEPARATE LIKE BASEMENT UNIT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IT'S THE WHOLE THING, THE ENTIRE HOUSE.
COUNSEL, WE'LL ASSERT MR. RAPPAPORT, IS THIS, UH, OWNER OCCUPIED? TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO, IT IS NOT.
AND I WOULD, IF THEY'RE RENTING OUT THE WHOLE HOUSE, I WOULDN'T THINK SO.
JOEL OFFICE GROUP? NO, IT'S RIGHT DOWN FROM THE POST OFFICE.
SO HERE'S HERE, AND THIS MAY HELP YOU.
THIS IS THE, UM, FRONT FACADE IN THE PARKING AREA.
THERE'S PLENTY OF PARKING ON SITE, BUT IT'S JUST ACROSS THE RAILROAD TRACKS FROM THE OLD POST OFFICE.
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION ABOUT OWNER OCCUPIED, I I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, IT LOOKS LIKE, UH, THE OWNER DOESN'T LIVE IN THE AREA OR AT LEAST THEIR ADDRESS IS NOT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NONE ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS THAT THEY WANNA ASK STAFF ABOUT NOW? OKAY.
THEN THAT, UH, THAT WILL BE THE FIRST ONE.
I DO HAVE A, A SECOND QUESTION.
UH, I THINK WHEN I WAS OUT THERE EARLIER, AND MAYBE I'M CONFUSING THIS WITH ANOTHER SITE, BUT THERE WAS A, A DR AT THE END OF THE DRIVEWAY, THERE WAS A DROP OFF.
AND I WAS, I MADE A NOTE OF IT THAT, UH, I DON'T KNOW, I I, I HAD CON SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THAT DROP OFF, BUT THERE ANY COUNSEL WISHES YOU COULD PUT A CONDITION ON THERE THAT THEY SCREEN IT OR PLANT ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING TO BLOCK IT OR SOMETHING TO BLOCK THE CARS FROM DRIVING OFF THE DRIVEWAY.
ONE WOULD HOPE PEOPLE WOULD BE CAREFUL ENOUGH NOT TO DO IT.
BUT I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE THAT TOO.
THAT'S COUNCIL'S, I MEAN THAT'S, UM, IT'S THE TOWN'S PURVIEW, BUT IT'S NOT LIKE A BUILDING INSPECTOR WOULD BE LIKE, IF THAT WAS A BRAND NEW HOUSE, A BUILDING INSPECTOR MIGHT COME OUT THERE AND QUESTION SAFETY, BUT OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT SO.
OH, I, I DON'T, I I'M SAYING TO YOU, YOU WOULD THINK, YOU WOULD THINK THAT, UH, THAT YOU WOULD THINK WHEN IT WAS BUILT THAT THAT WOULD'VE BEEN SOME I KNOW NOW, LIKE THEY QUESTION IF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE RAILS ON THEIR STAIRS GOING ON FROM SOMETHING.
SO COUNSEL, MR. RAPPAPORT, ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT, THAT I'M ASKING SO WE CAN DISCUSS THIS.
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ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THAT BE A CONDITION THAT, THAT THERE BE SOME KIND OF BARRIER TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM FALLING OFF THE OTHER SIDE? I, I WOULD SUGGEST IT.UM, I DON'T KNOW HOW THE OTHER COUNSEL PEOPLE FEEL, IF I MAY, MAY.
IT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING TO TAKE UP, UH, AT THE PUBLIC HEARING.
TAKE IT UP WITH THE APPLICANT AND, AND THEN CONSIDER ADDING A CONDITION AND YOU MEAN AS OPPOSED TO GETTING A CONSENSUS NOW AS REGARDING A CONDITION.
UH, BUT THE QUESTION COULD BE ANSWERED THOUGH.
AND LAUREN DID THAT, THAT COULD BE A CONDITION COUNSEL ASKED AND ASKED FOR.
UM, AND THE OPTIONS WOULD BE TO SCREENING THE PORCH OR JUST PUTTING SOME KIND OF LANDSCAPE.
THERE'S THE PORCH IS NEXT TO THE PORCH, RIGHT BRUCE? IT'S AS PARK IT.
IT'S THE ASPHALT ASPECT OF IT.
IF YOU LOOK TO THE RIGHT OF THE CARPORT.
UH, THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD PICTURE THERE.
I WOULD LOOK AT IT FROM DISTANCE.
IT'S DRIVING FORWARD WOULD WOULD BE MY, MY CONCERN.
UH, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE YOU PUT LANDSCAPE.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ALL CONCRETE.
I MEAN, YOU ALMOST HAVE TO GET A VERY LARGE, IT'S ALL THE RIGHT OF THE HOUSE.
SOMETHING IN A PLANTER RIGHT NOW I'M SAYING FROM WHAT HE SAID, FROM OVER THERE ON THE RIGHT TO PUT SOMETHING UP THERE.
I, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU PUT UP BECAUSE IT, NO, NO.
MADAM MAYOR, I HAVE ONE OTHER THING ON, ON THE APPLICATION.
IT CONCERNS ME THAT WE HAVE DOWN HERE FOR FRONT WALL FIRE AND RESCUE 6 3 5 2 5 4 OH, YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET AN ANSWER AT THAT NUMBER.
YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET AN ANSWER IF YOU HAVE AN EMERGENCY.
SO WE, WE NEEDED TO CHANGE THAT.
YOU MEAN TO, TO LET THE UM, APPLICANT APPLICANT KNOW? YEAH, I GUESS, I GUESS WE CHANGED THE APPLICATION, WOULDN'T WE? IS IT ON THE APPLICATION OR IS THAT ON THE, OKAY.
WE CAN CHANGE THAT APPLICATION.
YEAH, IT WAS THIS FORMAL VOLUNTEER FARM RESCUE AND IT'S GOT, IT'S GOT THE STATION NUMBER VERSUS THE NUMBER THAT REACH DISPATCH BECAUSE YOU GO THERE SOMETIMES THERE'S NOBODY THERE FOR OUT ON CALLS.
YOU THE PHONE JUST RINGING, RINGING RING.
BUT THESE GO TO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE NUMBER AND THE CHANGE FROM SIX PEOPLE FROM SEVEN PEOPLE TO SIX AND FOUR TO THREE.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU ALL MADE THAT CHANGE? NO.
YOU LET THEM KNOW THAT THAT HAD TO BE CHANGED.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION? ALRIGHT, WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE, WHICH UM, IS FOR 3 31 CURF AVENUE.
SO THIS IS ANOTHER WHOLE HOUSE RENTAL.
THIS ONE IS PROPOSED FOR FOUR BEDROOMS, THEREFORE NO MORE THAN EIGHT GUESTS.
UH, WE CONDUCTED AN INSPECTION ON APRIL 15TH.
THIS PROPERTY DID NOT HAVE ADEQUATE PARKING STAFF INITIALLY RECOMMENDED DENIAL, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION AT THE PUBLIC HEARING, RECOMMENDED APPROVAL CONDITION UPON THE APPLICANT ENLARGING THE PARKING AREA OR PROVIDING FOUR SPACES.
RIGHT NOW THEY'VE GOT SPACE FOR THREE.
THEY WOULD NEED ONE MORE SPACE AND THEY CAN PARK ALL THE WAY AROUND THAT CURVE THOUGH, RIGHT? YEAH.
'CAUSE IT'S ALL STREET STAFF CANNOT COUNT THAT.
BUT HERE YOU CAN FIRE HYDRANT THERE OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT WOULD PROHIBIT NO WORKING AROUND THE CORNER.
AND YOU CAN SEE THIS IS THEIR PARKING AREA.
SO WE ESTIMATED YOU COULD HOLD ABOUT THREE VEHICLES IN THERE.
THERE IS SPACE OFF TO THE SIDE, BUT THEY WOULD NEED TO INSTALL A NINE BY 18 FOOT AREA IN ORDER TO MEET THE REQUIREMENT.
I DO BELIEVE THAT THIS COUNCIL, WHEN WE MET WITH PLANNING COMMISSION LAST WEEK AND THEN WHEN WE MET IN MARCH, THAT IT SEEMED AS THOUGH THAT IT WAS THE DESIRE OF COUNCIL TO NO LONGER INCLUDE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS WITH THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
WHILE I REALIZE THAT IT CURRENTLY IS THAT WAY, WHICH IS WHY PLANNING COMMISSION HAD TO PROCEED WITH WHAT THEY DID.
UM, I I I THINK SOON ENOUGH THERE WILL PROBABLY BE A CHANGE TO THAT.
SO, UM, THAT WAS THE ONLY CONCERN.
I'M SORRY, I MAY, IN THE MEANTIME THERE'S A SPECIAL EXCEPTION AVENUE RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.
PENDING AMENDMENT TO THE ORDINANCE.
WELL AND I KNOW SOMETIMES WE'VE JUST VOTED YES.
YEAH, I I THINK I, I REMEMBER AT LEAST THE ONE DOWN IN CHESTER POPS UP IN MY HEAD.
WELL, THE OTHER ONE ON THE CURVE FOOT HAD NO ON SITE PART.
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FURTHER DAMAGE.SO THAT WAS THE ONLY EXCEPTION PIECE HE HAD.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER CONCERNS? I JUST HAD A QUESTION.
UH, ON HIS APPLICATION, HE, UH, THE, THE APPLICANT CHECKED THE BOX OF DECLARING IT AS HIS PRIMARY RESIDENCE.
SO IS THAT, IS THAT OWNER OCCUPIED? OKAY.
WHAT'S HIS CURRENT ADDRESS? JOHN, DO YOU KNOW IF THAT ONE'S IN THERE? I DUNNO.
THEY'D ONLY DO IT ON THE TIME THAT THEY ARE NOT LIVING THERE ALL THE TIME.
THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.
DOES, DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? SO IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH US PUTTING THIS FOR PUBLIC HEARING FOR MAY 28TH? YES, IT'S A TUESDAY.
ALRIGHT, MS. HG WILL GO ON TO THE NEXT ONE.
SO THIS NEXT APPLICATION IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
THIS IS AT FIVE 19 SHORT STREET FOR A GROUND FLOOR DWELLING UNIT.
AND THIS IS IN THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.
SO ANYTIME WE HAVE A COMMERCIAL ZONE, UM, YOU HAVE A RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE THAT HAS NOT THAT WHERE THE USE HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED, THEY'RE GONNA NEED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
PUT IT BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS IN THIS CASE.
THERE WAS, UH, DAMAGE TO THE PROPERTY.
UM, IT WAS USED AS A RESIDENCE BEFORE DISCONTINUE MORE THAN TWO YEARS.
THEY WERE REQUESTING TO PUT IT BACK TO A RESIDENTIAL USE.
THEY DID NOT MOVE FORWARD WITH COMPLETING THE RENOVATIONS UNTIL THEY GOT THE APPROVAL.
SO PLANNING COMMISSION HELD THE, UM, PUBLIC HEARING ON APRIL 17TH.
THEY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL WITH THE CONDITION THAT ALL THE NECESSARY ZONING AND BUILDING PERMITS FOR THE ALTERATION REPAIR BE REQUIRED.
AND THAT, UM, THEY ESTABLISH THEIR OCCUPANCY PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE OF THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT, MEANING THAT THEY WILL PROCEED WITH THE RENOVATIONS AND THEN THEY WILL OBTAIN THEIR OCCUPANCY PERMIT.
ONCE THEY GET THAT, THEN I WILL ISSUE THE FINAL SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO DO SO WHEN IT SAYS GROUND FLOOR DWELLING UNIT, UM, I MEAN IS THERE NOTHING IN THAT TOP LEVEL THERE? OR WHAT, WHAT IS THE DEAL? THE ENTIRE, UM, STRUCTURE WOULD BE USED AS A RESIDENTIAL, IN A RESIDENTIAL USE.
BUT BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S IN A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT THAT GROUND FLOOR.
THEY HAVE TO DEFINE BECAUSE IT'S THE GROUND FLOOR 'CAUSE IT'S COMMERCIAL.
SEE, IT'S RIGHT BEHIND WHERE THE O'REILLY'S IS SHOPPING, SHOPPING CART IN FRONT YARD.
INTERESTING, HUH? YEAH, THEY'RE LIKE, THERE WAS THREE WHEN I WENT BY THEIR, I GUESS I WENT BY SUNDAY, YOU KNOW, AND SUPPOSEDLY THERE WORTH LIKE $500 A PIECE OR MORE.
I MEAN, I'M NOT GONNA SAY THE STREET THAT I WALKED BY, BUT THERE'S OH NO, I'M SURE I 30 OF THEM IN THE FRONT YARD.
NO, I, I'M I NOW WE KNOW WHY ALLIE MAKES YOU PUT IN A QUARTERED.
I HOPE IT'S NOT OCCUPIED THOUGH.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT UNOFFICIALLY OCCUPIED.
YEAH, BECAUSE THE SHOPPING CARTS ARE THERE AND THAT'S A VALID, THAT IS A VALID QUESTION.
THERE IS, WE HAD SOME HOUSES, UM, DOWN SOME OTHER STREETS WHERE THEY STILL DO.
YEAH, THEY WERE, THEY CALL 'EM SQUATTERS, RIGHT.
PEOPLE WERE LIT, LITERALLY LIVING INSIDE.
SOMEBODY WAS TAKING ELECTRICITY OFF THE NEIGHBOR.
THEY WERE BASICALLY SIPHONING OFF ELECTRICITY OFF THE SAGE.
I BELIEVE THE STRUCTURE NEXT TO IT, THERE'S SEVERAL APARTMENTS THERE.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS? THEY'VE GOT THEIR WORK CUT OUT FOR THEM TO BRING THAT TO UH MM-HMM,
DO THEY GET A, DO THEY HAVE A, UM, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ASKING FOR IT AFTER TWO YEARS.
IS THERE A TIMELINE FOR WHEN THEY HAVE TO HAVE SOME ACTIVITY GOING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? IT'S IN PLACE ON NEW OWNERSHIP AFTER PRESENTED AT THE PUBLIC HEARING.
UH, I THOUGHT THAT HE SIT THERE IN THE PROCESS OF, UM, FINALIZING THE CONTRACT AND BY BOTH
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OF THE PROPERTIES.AND OF COURSE THIS, THEY WANTED TO MAKE IT RESIDENTIAL ONCE AGAIN AND KNOW WAS KIND THE CONDITION OF THE CONTRACT.
NO, I REMEMBER WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE APPLICANT WHO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
'CAUSE THERE'S AN APPLICANT AND THEN THERE'S AN EMAIL AND THAT'S DIFFERENT.
SO I WAS JUST CURIOUS, IS THAT THE APPLICANT THAT WAS, HOLD ON, I'M WRONG.
HE WAS UP TO PUBLIC HEARING SPOKE.
I JUST, THE EMAIL IS TO, UH, A BUSINESS SETTLEMENT COMPANY.
UM, BUT THE APPLICANT IS SOMEBODY DIFFERENT.
SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASSUMING.
THIS IS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT? THIS IS WHO HE'S TALKING ABOUT.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS I'LL ADD IS THE APPLICANT, UH, WE ASKED HIM ABOUT THE VEHICLES.
THERE'S A COMMERCIAL GARAGE IN THE BACK OF THIS PROPERTY, BUT IT'S ACCESSED BY THE ADJACENT LOT AND THAT'S PART OF THEIR BUSINESS.
BUT PART OF THE CONDITION BEFORE THEY GO TO CLOSING IS THE CURRENT OWNER WILL GET ALL THE JUNK BOATS, COTS, ET CETERA, OUT OF THERE.
SO HE DOESN'T PLAN ON USING THE GARAGE APPLICANT? NO, THE BUSINESS, THE BUSINESS, AS I UNDERSTOOD, AND THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
WHEN IT COMES UP BEFORE COUNCIL, THE GARAGE IS ACCESSED BY THE PROPERTY TO THE EAST THERE.
YOU GO IN THERE, YOU GO INTO THE PARKING AND IT COMES AROUND AND THE GARAGE FACES EAST.
SO PART OF THE CONCERN WAS IF THAT'S A FAMILY AND THE KIDS ARE OUT THERE IN JUNK CARS AND BOATS AND SHARP EDGE.
BUT THAT, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING AGAIN, MAYBE TO BRING UP DURING THE I JUST THAT THIS OWNER WOULD, HAS HAD, YOU KNOW, HAS THAT TYPE OF BUSINESS WITH A GARAGE AND STUFF.
UM, TO COUNCILWOMAN THE DOMENICO PAIN'S POINT, I DO THINK THERE SHOULD BE A TIME LIMIT ON MEETING THE CONDITION.
I IT'S LIKE THIRD SIDE THAT WOULD BE A CONDITION BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE.
UH, IS THERE, UH, IT'S GOOD THAT THEY'RE APPLYING AHEAD, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE APPLYING WELL AHEAD OF WHAT THEY COULD BE DOING.
SO, AND MAYBE TOO, THEY JUST DON'T WANNA INVEST IN SOMETHING IF THEY DON'T THINK IT WILL.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT, I'VE GOT THAT FLAVOR VERY MUCH THAT MAKES SENSE.
AND I'VE GOTTA CROSS THE T'S AND DOT THE ISLANDS BEFORE I'M GONNA EXECUTE THE FINAL PURCHASE OF THIS AND ADJACENT PROPERTY.
I CAN'T BELIEVE'S BUYING THE ADJACENT PROPERTY THAT IS THE BUSINESS ON THAT IT IS PROPERTY IS LICENSED, EVERYTHING ELSE THAT'S A SEPARATE, IT'S, IT'S A SEPARATE BUSINESS.
HE DID NOT WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THESE RENOVATIONS ON THE, ON A MAYBE THAT HE MAY BE ABLE TO PUT IT BACK.
AND THAT'S WHY WE HAD THE CONDITION THAT THEY OBTAIN THEIR OCCUPANCY PERMITS.
SO ONCE THEY GET THAT PERMIT AND THEY BRING IT INTO OUR DEPARTMENT, THEN STAFF CAN ISSUE THIS.
SO I DO, I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF A TIME THING ONLY BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE, NOT, NOT ON SHORT TERM RENTALS, BUT SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE GONE ON IN TOWN WHERE THINGS JUST GO ON FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER.
AND I COULD SEE, KEEP SAYING EVER AND EVER AND EVER, BUT I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE US START DOING THINGS WHERE THERE IS LIKE WITHIN THIS MANY YEARS OR WHATEVER.
I WAS JUST SAYING, I I, I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP.
'CAUSE SAME THING WITH ZONING, WHEN PEOPLE GET THINGS ZONED AND THEN, YOU KNOW, IT'S 10, 15 YEARS LATER AND STILL NOTHING'S DONE WITH IT.
SO COUNSEL, ARE YOU, ARE YOU OKAY WITH PUTTING THIS ON THE PUBLIC HEARING? YES.
SO WE'LL DO THAT AND, AND BETWEEN NOW AND THEN, MR. SONNET, BETWEEN NOW AND THEN IS IF PEOPLE, IT WOULD BE IN THE MOTION WHETHER OR NOT SOMEBODY WANTED TO PUT A TIMEFRAME ON IT, THAT'S THEIR DECISION THEN, RIGHT? CORRECT.
MY RECOMMENDATION IS YOU WAIT UNTIL, UNTIL THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE REQUIRED TO HEAR ALL THE EVIDENCE, RIGHT? ABSOLUTELY.
AND THEN THAT'S A, THAT'S WHY REACHING A CONSENSUS YEP.
THAT'S THE REASON WHY I SAID SO THAT PEOPLE DON'T WONDER WHY WE'RE NOT DISCUSSING THAT FURTHER ABOUT A TIMELINE.
IT'S, IT'LL BE DISCUSSED AT THE MEETING.
SO THIS IS FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT AT FIVE 14 SOUTH ROYAL AVENUE.
AND THIS IS ALSO PERMISSION FOR A GROUND FLOOR DWELLING UNIT.
THIS, UH, PROPERTY IS LOCATED IN THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT AND IT'S IN OUR ENTRANCE CORRIDOR AS WELL.
SO THIS SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS FOR OLD, UM, RED BRICK HOUSE AT SIMON PETRI.
UM, AND THE WAY THEY'RE PROPOSING TO LAY THIS OUT IS THAT WHEN YOU WALK IN THAT FRONT ENTRY, THE FIRST LEVEL AND THEN THE SECOND LEVEL ARE GOING TO BE ONE UNIT.
AND THEN ON THE BACK THE BASEMENT LEVEL IS GOING TO BE THE NEXT UNIT.
SO WITH THESE TWO UNITS, THEY'RE REQUIRED TO FURNISH FORCED
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PARKING SPACES BECAUSE TWO PARKING SPACES PER DWELLING UNIT, UH, THE APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED A PARKING PLAN WHERE THEY'RE SHOWING SIX OFF STREET PARKING SPACES AVAILABLE.UM, AND WHEN PLANNING COMMISSION TOOK THIS TO THE PUBLIC HEARING, THEY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL, UH, BASICALLY WITH THE SAME CONDITIONS AS THE, UM, PREVIOUS SEP, WHICH IS THAT THEY MUST OBTAIN ALL THEIR NECESSARY ZONING AND BUILDING PERMITS FOR THE ALTERATION AND REPAIR OF THE STRUCTURES AND THAT THEY MUST ESTABLISH THE USE OF AN OCCUPANCY PERMIT AND THAT THEY ALSO NEEDED TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE OFF STREET PARKING.
AND WHAT THEY DID WAS THEY INCLUDED THE FLOOR PLAN.
SO YOU CAN SEE THE, THE BREAKDOWN OF THE UNIT IN YOUR PACKET.
SO IT'S GONNA BE TWO UNITS, RIGHT? TWO UNITS.
SO YOU WALK IN THE GROUND FLOOR, YEAH, THAT'S FIRST GROUND LEVEL.
THEN THE SECOND LEVEL IS ONE, AND THEN THE BASEMENT IS A SEPARATE UNIT.
AND YOU WOULD ACCESS THAT THROUGH THE BACK OF THE STRUCTURE.
DO YOU THINK PARKING WILL BE A LITTLE TRICKIER WITH THAT PARTICULAR, UM, UH, LOCATION? JUST BECAUSE I MEAN, WE DON'T HAVE A PICTURE.
YEAH, WE HAVE A PICTURE FROM THE FRONT.
I KNOW WE HAVE THE PICTURE FROM THE BACK, BUT 70 I GOT THE, I'M JUST SAYING BECAUSE THAT GOT, UM, GO BACK.
SO THAT SHOWS IF YOU ZOOM OUT, YOU SHOULD HAVE THREE IN THE FRONT THERE AND THEN THREE IN THE BACK.
THESE, THE CONCRETE, THERE'S 1, 2, 3 IN THE BACK AND THEN 1, 2, 3 UP FRONT.
AND THEY'LL PULL IN THIS WAY, NOT THAT WAY.
IS THAT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE? YEP.
BECAUSE RIGHT SIDE OF IT IS THE WHITE BUILDING.
THAT I THINK AND THAT'S THE NEXT SU YEAH.
AND THEN THE OLD TIME OF BEACH TREES' IS ON THIS SIDE.
AND THAT HAS PARKING THAT GOES IN THAT WAY TOO.
I MEAN, WHEN IT'S READY, WELL, THEY CAN GO THROUGH TOURIST, RIGHT? TOURIST DRIVE OR WHATEVER IT IS, THE ROAD AROUND THAT AND PRO PROPERLY BOUND IT.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION? IS THIS THE ONE WHERE, WHERE HE WAS GONNA GRAVEL UP TO THE UH MM-HMM.
IS THAT HE'LL, HE SAID HE'S PROPOSING TO PUT THAT PARKING AREA IN AND I BELIEVE IT'LL BE
ANYBODY ELSE WITH ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS APPLICATION? OKAY, MS. PRESLEY, WE'LL PUT THIS ONE ON FOR PUBLIC HEARING.
SO IN THE NEXT ONE, SAME APPLICANT.
THIS IS FIVE 12 SOUTH ROYAL AVENUE.
SO THIS IS THE PIECE A LITTLE FURTHER DOWN, UM, CLOSER TO THE CORNER OR IT'S ON THE CORNER.
UM, IT'S THIS LITTLE, UH, STRUCTURE HERE.
UM, SO WITH THIS ONE THEY'RE PROPOSING IT'S THE SAME REQUEST AGAIN, GROUND LEVEL, UH, APARTMENT OR DWELLING UNIT.
SO THEY'RE GONNA HAVE ONE APARTMENT UP TOP, OR SORRY, DWELLING UNIT UP TOP AND THEN ONE DWELLING UNIT ON THE BOTTOM.
AND SO THEY'RE GONNA BE DWELLING UNITS TOO, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
PEOPLE COULD RENT IT OUT AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
THAT, SO I GUESS THIS IS, I BELIEVE THIS IS, THERE'S A NEW OWNER THERE.
THERE WAS A CHANGE OF OWNERSHIP.
UM, BUT AGAIN, PLANNING COMMISSION HELD THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE 17TH AND THEY RECOMMENDED THE SAME CONDITIONS.
SO THAT IS THAT THEY OBTAIN THEIR ZONING AND BUILDING PERMITS.
THEY ESTABLISHED THE USE AND THEN THEY PROVIDE ADEQUATE OFF STREET PARKING.
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF, I JUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.
IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF WORK'S BEEN DONE ON THIS TOO.
LIKE THE, UM, I MEAN, I'M SORRY, ALL THREE OF YEAH, NO, NO, BUT I'M JUST SAYING LIKE, I NOTICED WHEN I WAS OUT THERE, I WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, QUITE A BIT OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EVEN A YEAR AGO UNTIL NOW.
SO YEAH, THAT'S WHEN THEY'RE PLANNING ON PROVIDING FIVE OFF STREET PARKING SPACES FOR TWO YOU.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS APPLICATION THAT YOU WANNA KNOW OR ASK? OKAY, WELL IT'LL BE ANOTHER PUBLIC.
ALRIGHT, SO THIS NEXT ONE IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
THIS IS AT 10 SOUTH COMMERCE AVENUE.
AND WITH THIS SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THEY ARE ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO CONVERT THE HOTEL INTO, UH, BASICALLY AN APARTMENT COMPLEX.
UM, SO HERE YOU CAN SEE JUST THESE ARE JUST PHOTOS OF THE EXISTING EXTERIOR.
UM, RIGHT NOW YOU'VE GOT THE HOTEL, THE BANQUET HALL, AND THEN THE THAI RESTAURANT.
UM, THIS IS FACING COMMERCE, I BELIEVE.
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UM, AT STONEWALL AND HILL.UM, BUT HERE'S WHAT THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING.
THEY ARE OPPOSING TO GO FROM I THINK 70 SOME HOTEL ROOMS DOWN TO 39 APARTMENTS.
EACH UNIT WILL BE OVER 600 SQUARE FEET.
SO OUR CODE REQUIRES A APARTMENT OR DWELLING UNITS TO BE A MINIMUM OF UM, 250 SQUARE FEET.
BUT AVERAGING 300, THESE ARE DOUBLE THAT SIZE.
SO THESE ARE BEATING THAT 600 SQUARE FOOT REQUIREMENT.
UH, THEREFORE WE'RE CALLING 'EM DWELLING UNITS.
THE BREAKDOWN IS 24 1 BEDROOM UNITS, THREE ONE BEDROOMS, UH, WITH A DEN.
AND THEN THEY'RE PROPOSING 12 TWO BEDROOM UNITS.
AND EACH FLOOR WILL BE A MIRROR IMAGE OF THE OTHER.
THERE WILL BE THREE FLOORS WITH 13 UNITS ON EACH.
THIS IS THE RENDERING OF THE PROPOSED EXTERIOR.
SO YOU CAN SEE THE POOL AREA WILL GET RENOVATED AS WELL AS THE OUTSIDE.
AND THEN THERE WILL BE AN, UM, AN ENLARGEMENT OF THE, OR SORRY, CONVERSION OF PART OF THE PARKING AREA NOW INTO MORE GREEN SPACE AREA, WHICH OUR CODE DOES REQUIRE FRONT.
ARE THOSE, OR IS THE RENDERING THEN GONNA LOOK LIKE THE METAL RODS AS THE OUTSIDE? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE THAT, LIKE THAT WHITE PLY WOODY LOOKING STUFF HERE.
I'M SAYING WAS THE PLAN TO HAVE THAT BE OPEN, MORE OPEN VERSUS SEE HOW THIS, WE'RE GONNA HAVE MORE OF AN OPEN RAIL? YEAH, AN OPEN RAILING THAT'S I'M TRYING, YEAH.
NO, NO, I KNOW, I I'M JUST SAYING THE CHANGE, THE MOST RECENT CHANGE TO CLOSE ALL THAT IN.
SO THE IDEA WOULD BE TO GO BACK TO THE LOOK OF WHAT IT WAS IN THE PAST.
UM, IN THE INTERIOR, THEY'RE PROPOSING, UH, COMMON LAUNDRY AREAS.
IT WOULD BE ON, IT WOULD BE ON EACH FLOOR.
AND THEN THEY'RE PROPOSING ON OPEN WORK AREAS.
UM, THEY PROVIDED A RENDERING OF YOUR TYPICAL INTERIOR, AN APARTMENT.
UM, AND THEN THE BANQUET HALL I THINK WOULD BE TURNED INTO LIKE A COMMON AREA, LIKE BANQUET PARTY ROOM FOR, UH,
SO THERE WOULDN'T, UM, WHAT ABOUT THE RESTAURANT? THE RESTAURANT WOULD STAY, IT'S A SEPARATE USE.
RESTAURANT WOULD STAY, THE BANQUET HALL WOULD NO LONGER BE RENTED OUT AS A BANQUET HALL.
IT'LL BE FOR THE, IT WOULD FREE USE TO THE RESIDENCE.
SO EACH OF THOSE WOULD BE LIKE, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A BEDROOM OFF OF THAT, RIGHT? YEP.
WHAT WOULD BE IN THE, UH, LOBBY AREA? IN THE LOBBY AREA? YEAH.
UM, I BELIEVE THAT'S LIKE THE COMMON WORKSPACE AREA.
UM, STAFF DID INVITE THE APPLICANTS IN AND SOME YOU MAY OR MAY NOT WANNA THERE SOME EXERCISE ROOM OFF OF THAT AS WELL.
UH, JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, UM, UH, APARTMENTS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT A, UM, I DON'T EVEN, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE CORRECT ADJECTIVE TO USE ANYMORE.
'CAUSE YOU SAY AFFORDABLE AND PEOPLE THINK SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT OR WHATEVER.
BUT, UM, I'M JUST CURIOUS, DO WE, DID THEY HAVE A THOUGHT ON WHAT A PRICE RANGE WOULD BE FOR? WOULD IT BE LIKE, I MEAN, SUBSECTION EIGHT VOUCHERS? I'M NOT AWARE OF.
I, I, I CAN'T, CHAIRMAN NER ASKED THE QUESTION, WOULD IT BE SUPPLEMENTAL, UH, RENTAL REIMBURSEMENT AND THE APPLICANT SAID NO.
WELL HERE, I, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THAT SINCE I'VE BEEN BROUGHT UP.
SO IF YOU, I MEAN, ARE WE, TO ME, IF YOU'RE AN ELDERLY PERSON AND YOU'RE GETTING SOCIAL SECURITY, THEN THAT MIGHT BE A PLACE YOU LIVE AND THAT'S A THIRD PARTY PAYEE.
OR ARE, ARE WE CONSIDERING THAT THE PERSON'S INCOME, SOCIAL SECURITY IS YOUR INCOME? THERE'S A SEPARATE HOUSING VOUCHER.
SO SOMEBODY, MY QUESTION WAS FOR SOMEBODY WHO IS DISABLED AND GETTING DISABILITY, AND IT'S NOT A SECTION EIGHT VOUCHER, BUT YOU'RE GETTING YOU IT'S INCOME.
SO YOU COULD STILL LIVE THERE IF YOU FALL UNDER THAT CONDITION? YEAH, NO, THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE FOR THE HOUSING VOUCHER.
AND I LIKE, I DID LIKE THAT THEY HAVE ELEVATOR, YOU KNOW, ELEVATOR ACCESS.
UM, WELL WITH THE SIZE OF THE APARTMENT, A IMAGINE HAVING A ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT.
YOU WANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY'S BIRTHDAY PARTY, UNIVERSITY PARTY, YOU HAVE THE USE OF THE CLUBHOUSE.
[00:30:01]
ROOM NOW AT CLUBHOUSE OR WHATEVER COMMON AREA OR COMMON COMMON AREA THAT CAN BE USED FOR NORMAL FEE.UM, SO YOU DON'T HAVE 20, 30 PEOPLE IN ROOM REQUIREMENT.
UM, THAT WOULD BE EXCLUSIVE AS I UNDERSTAND FROM THAT.
BUT TO THE, UM, TO THE TENANTS THERE.
SO IT ISN'T SOMETHING THAT COULD BE RENTED OUT BY THE PUBLIC? NO, IT WOULD JUST BE THAT.
SO THIS IS BEING TARGETED AS A AFFORDABLE, AFFORDABLE WORKFORCE HOUSING? IS THIS, IS THAT A FAIR QUESTION? THAT'S WHAT THEY HAD SAID WHEN I, I VISITED, BUT UM, HE HAS NOT PUT A PRICE POINT ON IT YET.
'CAUSE UH, THIS COULD BE DOING CONSTRUCTION.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE, YOU KNOW, WE'LL, WE'LL DETERMINE THAT.
SO THEN I DON'T KNOW THAT WE CAN SET IT, YOU KNOW, SO ONE THING THAT WILL HAVE TO BE INCLUDED BE THE UTILITIES.
'CAUSE THERE'S NO MECHANISM TO MEET EACH ROOM.
WATER, SEWER, ELECTRIC ITSELF.
IF YOU GET A ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT FOR 1200, YOUR ELECTRIC AND WATER SEWER WOULD BE INCLUDED.
IS THAT HOW THEY DO IT? LIKE THE
I ASK OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT WILL REVIEW ALL THAT AND ENERGY SERVICES SOMETHING BUILT.
YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE A PLACE TO PUT 'EM.
BUT, WELL, SOMETHING BUILT IS, IT'S, IT'S A LOT OF INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT IT CAN'T, NO, THE UTILITIES ARE SEPARATE AT THOSE OTHER APARTMENT COMPLEXES.
THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED IN THE RENT.
I KNOW HERE ON MAIN STREET, A LOT OF THESE ARE SEPARATE.
THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED IN THE RENT.
I, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER COUPLE APARTMENT COMPLEX.
I JUST, FROM MY, MY CHILDREN'S EXPERIENCE OF RENTING IN COLLEGE, THERE WAS ALL, IT WAS ALWAYS THEY WOULD LIKE BUILD IN A PARTICULAR PRICE.
LIKE EVERYBODY HAD THIS AMOUNT, BUT THEN IF YOU WENT OVER USAGE, THEN THEY WOULD ADD TO IT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
DON'T ASK ME HOW THEY DID, BUT THEY DID CALCULATE IT BY THE UNIT.
UM, BUT I, YOU KNOW, THAT, I GUESS THAT WAS KIND OF MY QUESTION, WHAT BRUCE WAS JUST SAYING, LIKE, I GET IT THAT WE CAN'T SAY THIS IS THE PRICE, BUT IF WE'RE, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE, WE'RE ENCOURAGING THIS IN OUR, IF WE'RE SAYING THIS TO OUR COMMUNITY THAT HERE'S ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY FOR, UH, HOUSING, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT.
'CAUSE I MEAN RIGHT NOW IT'S, UH, A LODGING PLACE, SO THERE'S LODGING TAX AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
BUT ONCE IT GOES TO AN APARTMENT, THEN, UM, THEN DO WE GET A CUT OF THAT? LIKE IF THEY NO, NO PROPERTY.
THEY GET REAL ESTATE PROPERTY.
BUT THE ELECTRICALLY WOULD IF, WELL, IF THEY BUILD IN THE ELECTRIC, IF THEY SAY IT'S $1,200 RENT, LET'S JUST SAY, AND 300 OF HIS UTILITIES, DO WE GET THAT 300? OR HOW DOES THAT GET CALCULATED? MOSTLY BILL WILL BE PAID BY THE PROPERTY OWNER BASED OFF OF HOW MUCH THEY UTILIZED OFF OF THE METER.
IT ALSO, IT WOULD GO TO ENTER THE ENTERPRISE.
RIGHT NOW THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN'T ANSWER LOOKING AT.
I MEAN, WE TALK ABOUT IT, BUT IT'S EITHER METER SEPARATELY OR METERED TOGETHER.
I MEAN, AND THEY'LL HAVE TO SUBMIT, I MEAN, AS THEY GO THROUGH THE APPLICATION PROCESS, PUBLIC WORKS WILL REVIEW THAT.
ENERGY SERVICES WILL REVIEW ANY OF THE UTILITY THINGS AND IT WILL BE PAID FOR EITHER THE APPLICANT SHOULD PAY OR THE RENTER THE APPLICANT IS OFFERED TOURS OF THE PROPERTY.
UM, WHAT HE IS HELPING TO TARGET IS OUR POLICE OFFICERS, OUR EMTS, FIREFIGHTERS, TEACHERS, NURSES, UM, PEOPLE WE'RE RECRUITING, YOU KNOW, FOR SIX OFFICERS, I THINK CRYSTAL NEEDS FOUR DEPUTIES.
COUNTIES EITHER GONNA RECRUIT FOUR OR SIX EMT FIREFIGHTERS SCHOOL SYSTEM.
DOESN'T KNOW AT THIS POINT HOW MANY, BUT LAST YEAR IT WAS 55.
BUT THAT'S WHAT HE SHARED TO AND I, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THAT IDEA.
UM, I JUST KNOW THAT THEY SAID THAT ABOUT CVILLE COMMONS WHEN THEY APPROVED THAT 20, 26, 27 YEARS AGO THAT IT WAS GONNA BE FOR LIKE YOUNG PROFESSIONALS.
AND THEN IT DID NOT TURN OUT THAT WAY AT ALL.
UM, IN FACT, YOU KNOW, IT, IT WAS COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY.
AND THAT, THAT'S THE ONLY REASON WHY I ASKED THESE QUESTIONS THERE.
THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS I GET I'M GETTING FROM PEOPLE.
IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE, THIS IS THE TIME FOR US TO ASK TO EITHER GET STAFF TO FIND OUT OR FOR THE APPLICANT TO HEAR OUR QUESTIONS AND AND PROVIDE THEM TO US.
I WAS NOT AWARE THAT THERE WERE TOURS BEING OFFERED TO THE COUNCIL.
I MUST HAVE MISSED THAT MEMO OR DIDN'T GET THE INVITATION.
[00:35:01]
SO, UM, THIS HAS TO BE ADVERTISED TOMORROW.THEREFORE I'D ASK THAT THIS PUBLIC HEARING BE DELAYED A MONTH BECAUSE I HAVEN'T HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TOUR IT OR HEAR FROM THE OWNER DIRECTLY.
UH, WHICH THE WORK SESSION IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE TIME TO HAVE THAT DIALECT BACK AND FORTH, UM, WITH AN APPLICANT.
UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S A GREAT PLAN AND THEORY, BUT AS YOU'VE SAID, I'VE SEEN THESE THINGS NOT TURN OUT TO THEORY AND WHEN YOU NEED TO GET 'EM RENTED, YOU'LL RENT THEM TO GET THEM RENTED.
UM, AND I KNOW CURRENTLY IN OUR LAST PRESENTATION FROM THE TOWN POLICE, THIS HOTEL WAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST CRIME RATE HOTELS OPERATING IN THE TOWN LIMITS, UH, WITH THE MOST CALLS ANYWAYS TO 9 1 1.
AND SO JUST, YOU KNOW, MAKES YOU WONDER WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE WILL BE RENTING THEM.
AND THEN ALSO YOU MENTIONED IT LIGHTLY, BUT THE LODGING TAX, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA AFFECT OUR TOURISM BUDGET AND THE FINANCIAL IMPACT TO THE TOWN.
WE WILL NO LONGER RECEIVE LODGING TAX OFF OF THAT.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO, I DID A LITTLE RESEARCH ON, UH, UH, WHAT THEY DID DOWN IN ROANOKE.
AND ROANOKE TOOK, UH, A DAYS IN, IT WAS 188 ROOM DAYS IN THAT WENT IN DISREPAIR.
UH, AND UH, THEY SUCCESSFULLY CONVERTED IT INTO A, AN 80, I THINK IT WAS AN 88 ROOM, UH, SIMILAR TO WHAT THIS IS BEING PROPOSED AS WORKFORCE HOUSING.
UM, WHAT I UNDERSTAND, UH, YOU, YOU TAKE A MEDIAN, YOU, YOU GET A MEDIAN INCOME OF, OF THE GENERAL AREAS AND YOU TAKE, YOU TAKE THAT AVERAGE AND THEN THERE'S, UH, THE RENTS CANNOT BE ANY MORE THAN UP TO 30% OF THEIR, THEIR MONTHLY INCOME.
SO, UM, THEY PUT A UPPER BUT DID THEY PUT A LOWER, DID THEY SAY NO LOWER THEN? I DON'T.
UM, AND, UH, IS THE MEAN INCOME YOU YEAH, THAT THAT'S 51,000.
SO, SO IT'S, IT CAN'T BE ANY MORE THAN 30%.
THE RENT CAN'T BE ANY MORE THAN 30%.
SO THAT WOULD BE LIKE $1,300 A SO I THINK WHERE MELISSA WAS GOING WITH THE FLOOR OF IT IS TO SEE IF THERE IS A MINIMUM STANDARD TO BE ABLE TO RENT IT AS WELL.
SO WE GET THE CAP, BUT WELL, THIS, THIS, I I HAVE THIS, UH, WEBSITE.
YEAH, PLEASE DO WITH, UH, COUNSEL.
UM, AND IT'S ALSO CONCERNING WITH THE WORKFORCE HOUSING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'VE OWNED MULTIPLE HOMES IN WARREN COUNTY AT THE SAME TIME.
AND, UM, EVEN, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF MY TERMINAL COUNCIL, I'LL COMPLETE THE BUILD OF MY HOME AND FAMILY LAND.
AND SO I'M GOING TO PROBABLY RENT IN BETWEEN WHILE I RENT MY HOUSE AND FINISH CONSTRUCTION ON MY NEXT HOME.
I CAN'T RENT FROM SOME OF THE APARTMENT COMPLEXES AND THE TOWN LIMITS, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S FAIR TO BE PUNISHED FOR MAKING MORE THAN THE MEDIAN INCOME WHEN I'M A RESPONSIBLE TENANT WHO CAN OWN HOMES.
BUT I NEED TO RENT IN THE MEANTIME.
SO I THINK THERE'S A REALLY FINE LINE THERE FOR THE WORKFORCE HOUSING.
UM, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, I LITERALLY HAD TO GO FIND A SHORT TERM RENTAL IN THE TOWN LIMITS FOR THE LAST TIME I RENTED WHILE OWNING TWO HOUSES.
WELL, WE WENT, I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S A, THERE'S JUST SO MANY ISSUES, BUT YOU, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE SORT OF ALLUDED TO, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE ALWAYS SAYS, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE COPS, THE TEACHERS AND ALL OF THAT.
AND, BUT YOU KNOW, IN REALITY WHO WILL FILL IT? AM I RIGHT NOW, IS IT A SITUATION? I KNOW IT WAS FOR A TIME, I DON'T KNOW IF IT STILL IS FOR A TIME, THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE HOMELESS AND USING THAT, YOU KNOW, USING THE HOTELS AS THEIR, THEIR RESIDENCY.
SO, YOU KNOW, ARE WE GONNA HAVE A NUISANCE HOTEL WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIVING WEEK TO WEEK? OR ARE WE GONNA TRY TO, YOU KNOW, UPSCALE AT LEAST PUT AN EFFORT INTO UPSCALING IT AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO MAKE, TO MAKE IT BETTER, YOU KNOW, UM, TO GIVE IT A CHANCE IS WHAT I'M THINKING OF.
BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, BUT WE DEFINITELY, IF THERE'S ANY LEGAL MEASURES AROUND SETTING THE RENT OR SETTING, YOU KNOW, THE, YOU KNOW, PROBLEMS
[00:40:01]
RIGHT.THEN THIS WOULD HAVE TO BE THE, IF THIS WERE TO BE GOING INTO APARTMENTS, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE LEASED RENT TO RENT.
NOT WE TO, THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A, THEY WOULD'VE A LEASE, THEY WOULD'VE
I'M JUST SAYING THOUGH, WE, WE START, WHEN WE WERE TALKING WITH THOSE PEOPLE IN ASHLAND, THAT WAS PART OF THEIR WHOLE THING WHEN THEY WERE DOING THINGS.
IS THAT IT? THAT'S ONE OF THE WAYS THEY WERE REGULATED, THE HOTELS THAT WERE RENTING WEEK TO WEEK WAS THAT THE PEOPLE HAD TO, UM, THEY HAD TO, IT WAS LIKE A 30 DAY THING OR WHATEVER, THAT'S ALL.
I MEAN, MOST OF THE COMPLEXES AND FRONT ROW REQUIRE A YEAR.
YEAH, NO, I'M SURE SOME OF 'EM ARE REQUIRING THREE YEAR LEASES RIGHT NOW.
SO A COUPLE THINGS IN MENTIONING, UM, WE'RE LOOKING AT A PROPERTY THAT WAS BUILT IN THE SIXTIES AND AT THE TIME IT WAS THE SHOWCASE OF THE TOWN.
GRANDPARENTS HAD THEIR 50TH WEDDING ANNIVERSARY IN THE BANQUET ROOM.
AND I'M SURE THAT WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE THAT, THAT SOME SORT OF TIME OR ANOTHER.
BUT WE ALSO KNOW AS TIMES PROGRESS, WE HAVE THE NEW CHAINS OUT ON THE BORDER, AND A LOT OF TRAVELERS WOULD PREFER TO GO WITH A BRAND NAME SUCH AS A HILTON OR MARRIOTT OR SUCH.
SO WE HAVE THIS PROBLEM WITH OLDER PROPERTIES IN OUR TOWN AND FALLING INTO DISREPAIR AND PERHAPS LESS, UM, THE TENANTS BEING LESS THAN WHAT YOUR AVERAGE VISITORS ARE.
UM, IN, IN VISITING THE PROPERTY.
IT WAS INTERESTING THAT, UM, THEY NO LONGER ACCEPT CASH BECAUSE THEY'VE LEARNED THAT PEOPLE HAVE PAID WITH CASH, UH, TRASH ROOMS AND LEAVE.
SO, UM, I SUSPECT ALSO IF WE ASK OUR, OUR CHIEF OF POLICE, THAT DOES SEE THE NUMBER OF INCIDENTS THERE GOING DOWN, WHICH AGAIN, IF IT'S, IF IT'S A, UM, APARTMENT COMPLEX, I WOULDN'T THINK WE'D HAVE ANY MORE INSTANCES OF CRIME THAN WE WOULD AT ANY OTHER, DEPENDING ON WHO THE TENANTS ARE, WHAT THE, WHAT THE, YOU KNOW, MARKET BRINGS TENANT WISE.
SO ALL I'M SAYING IS, YES, WE'RE GONNA LOSE THE LAUNCHING TAX, BUT OVER TIME IT'S GOING TO, IT'S NOT GONNA BE A PREMIER PROPERTY.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE PEOPLE WITH LESSER MEANS STAYING THERE.
AND THEN THE BUSINESS OWNER, THE PROPERTY OWNER, HAS TO MAKE A DECISION HOW THEY'RE GONNA, HOW THEY'RE GONNA MAKE THE MONEY.
UH, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, AT LEAST THE SHORT TIME I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL, AND AGAIN, YOU CHOOSE YOUR TERM AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WORKFORCE, HOUSING, WHATEVER.
BUT, UM, WITH THIS BEING PROPOSED TO FIT A REAL NEED THAT WE HAVE, UM, I JUST THINK IT'S, IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE, WE SHOULD LOOK AT AND, AND EMBRACE.
IF YOU TALK TO OUR BUSINESS OWNERS DOWNTOWN, UM, THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE CONCERNED THAT IT COULD BE SECTION EIGHT OR WHATEVER HOUSING, AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO ENHANCE THEIR BUSINESSES, BUT MOST OF 'EM SEEM TO BE VERY WELCOMING TO HAVING ANOTHER 70 OR 80 TENANTS WITHIN A SHORT WALK DISTANCE OF THE RESTAURANTS OR SHOPS.
UM, I ONLY SPOKE TO ONE THAT SAID, WELL, THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GONNA COME IN MY ANTIQUE SHOP.
BUT, UH, FOR YOUR METERY, FOR YOUR BREWERY, FOR YOUR SPORTS BAR, FOR YOUR, UH, ROYAL SPICE FOR THE MILL, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S ACCIDENT, OPPORTUNITY WALKABILITY, UM, TO GET THOSE FOLKS SHOPPING DOWN THERE.
AND WHEN WE LOSE ONE REVENUE, PERHAPS WE PICK UP THE OTHER REVENUE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I'VE RETIRED FROM HR A LONG TIME AGO, BUT I KNOW THAT WHEN YOU HIRE PEOPLE, JUST LIKE OUR TEACHERS LAST YEAR, WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE, UM, ADEQUATE HOUSING, THEY END UP LIVING OUT OF THE AREA.
AND THEN I SUSPECT IS THEY GO HOME AND THEY MAKE FRIENDS THERE, THEY SHOP THERE, WE DON'T GET TO BENEFIT USUALLY THEIR DOLLARS.
AND EVENTUALLY IF THEY CAN GET IN THAT SCHOOL SYSTEM, WE LOSE 'EM.
SO, I MEAN, YOU MIGHT HAVE MAY PROBABLY SAID MORE THAN US.
NO, THAT'S, YOU JUST DESCRIBED.
UM, EXACTLY THE BIGGEST CONCERN ABOUT NOT HAVING, UH, ADEQUATE AND FAIR RENTAL PROPERTIES IN OUR COMMUNITY IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
THEY'RE GONNA RENT, THEY OFTENTIMES RENT IN WINCHESTER OR FREDERICK OR OTHER PLACES, BUT MOSTLY I HEAR WINCHESTER FREDERICK, AND THEN WHEN AN OPENING COMES UP IN THEIR, THEIR SCHOOL SYSTEM, ESPECIALLY, I KNOW TWO YEARS AGO WHEN THE GAS WAS LIKE OUT OF CONTROL, PEOPLE WERE, AND THERE WAS A SHORTAGE TOO.
AND THERE WAS A SHORTAGE, LITERALLY PEOPLE MM-HMM.
I CAN'T, YOU KNOW, CAN'T DO THIS.
AND I WILL SAY, WHAT'S INTERESTING IS WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT TALKING TO THE BUSINESS OWNERS, UM, BECAUSE I, I THINK THAT'S INTERESTING.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE GONNA HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING.
I HOPE PEOPLE COME OUT AND SPEAK AND SHARE
[00:45:01]
WHAT THEY THINK.'CAUSE I HEARD THE OPPOSITE, WHICH WAS IF IT'S A HOTEL, PEOPLE ARE COMING IN, THEY'RE STAYING, THEY'RE STAYING, THEY'RE VISITING, THEY COME DOWN ON MAIN STREET TO EAT VERSUS IF THEY'VE GOT AN APARTMENT, THEY'RE COOKING THERE THINK IT COULD GO EITHER WAY.
WHO KNOWS WHAT THAT I, LIKE I SAID, I JUST HEARD IT A A DIFFERENT WAY AND I THOUGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, I I, I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT THAT WAY OR EITHER WAY.
I JUST THOUGHT OF IT AS MORE, UH, UH, HOUSING.
THAT'S WHAT I SAW IT AS WHEN I, WHEN I THOUGHT ABOUT IT.
AND I JUST WANNA ADD ONE OTHER THING.
WHEN YOU SAID ABOUT THE TEACHERS, STUFF LIKE THAT, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT AFFORDABLE RENTAL PLACES BECAUSE WHEN PEOPLE ARE NEW IN THEIR CAREER, THEY AREN'T READY TO BUY A HOUSE RIGHT AWAY.
THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THIS IS GONNA BE WHERE THEY'RE GONNA STAY, YOU KNOW? UM, I DON'T MEAN JUST TEACHERS, I MEAN ANYTHING, LAW ENFORCEMENT, NURSES AND ANY, OR ANY PROFESSION REALLY, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE YOUNG, LIKE THEY, YOU KNOW, ANYWAY, I JUST, I JUST WANNA SAY I JUST HOPE THAT IT IS SOMETHING ONE THEY CAN AFFORD OR THAT THEY'RE NOT, NOT PRICED OUT OF.
BUT LIKE I SAID, I JUST KNOW THIS FOR A FACT WITH SHONDO COMMONS BECAUSE I DON'T LIVE VERY FAR FROM THERE.
AND I REMEMBER WHEN, UH, WE'RE OF SUPERVISORS WAS SELLING EVERYBODY ON THE IDEA OF IT BEING THERE.
I CAN REMEMBER ONE IN PARTICULAR WHO WAS SAYING, THIS IS A CHANCE OUR TEACHERS ARE BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
ALL THESE PEOPLE CAN LIVE THERE.
THEY OPENED THAT PLACE UP AND THE TEACHERS MADE TOO MUCH.
I CAN'T WRITE LIKE BARELY, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? LIKE, IT WASN'T LIKE, IT WAS LIKE TENS OF THOUSANDS MORE, BUT IT WAS LITERALLY JUST BARELY A LITTLE BIT OVER.
RIGHT? AND I WAS LIKE, WELL, YOU KNOW, SO THAT WAS DISAPPOINTING.
I, IT, YOU KNOW, IT DIDN'T AFFECT ME.
UM, BUT IT DOES AFFECT ALL OF US IN OUR COMMUNITY WHEN WE STRUGGLED TO GET THOSE YOUNG PROFESSIONALS OR PROFESSIONALS THAT, THAT FOR OUR PUBLIC SERVANTS, YOU KNOW, LIKE TEACHERS AND FIREFIGHTERS AND POLICE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO ANYWAY, THAT WAS THE OTHER POINT THAT I, SO I ACTUALLY WORKED THERE AT BAYMONT AS A SECOND JOB WHEN I WAS PREGNANT WITH MY FIRST CHILD AND BOUGHT MY FIRST HOUSE.
I WORKED THERE ON THE WEEKENDS.
AND, UM, SO I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE PROPERTY.
AND, UM, MY ONLY OTHER QUESTION THAT I WOULD HAVE FOR STAFF THAT AREN'T HERE AND PREPARED TO ANSWER THAT TONIGHT IS, WHILE I UNDERSTAND IT WILL IMPACT OUR SALES AND MEALS TAX, PERHAPS I'D LIKE TO KNOW IF IT'S $50,000 ANNUALLY IN LODGING TAX THAT'S GONNA PUNCH OUR BUDGET, OR IF IT'S 15,000 ANNUALLY.
'CAUSE THAT'S GONNA MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE TO THE BUDGET OF THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL FOR THE LODGING TAX PURPOSES.
AND WHILE I AGREE, MOST PEOPLE WANNA STAY IN A CHAIN, BAYMONT ACTUALLY IS A WYNDHAM CHAIN.
UM, IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THE APPEARANCE OF IT DOESN'T LOOK THE SAME AS THE NEW, UH, WHATEVER THAT IS OUT BY LOWE'S, WHICH YOU CAN'T EVEN AFFORD TO GET INTO RIGHT NOW.
UM, BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING WEEKLY RENTALS OUT THERE.
UH, SOME PEOPLE THAT BUILD HOUSES THAT STAY OUT THERE FOR A WEEK OR A MONTH AT A TIME.
BUT ALSO WITH THAT BEING SAID, WHEN I WORKED THERE, ONE OF THE LARGEST PARTS OF THE CLIENTELE WERE, UM, HIKERS FROM THE APPALACHIAN TRAIL.
THEY STOPPED HERE AT THE TRAILHEAD.
THEY COME THERE AND THEY STAY FROM ONE TO TWO NIGHTS TO SHOWER, WASH THEIR CLOTHES AT A PLACE ON MAIN STREET OR THERE, UM, YOU KNOW, REFUEL SNACKS AND NECESSITIES AND THEN HOP BACK ON THE TRAIL.
SO THIS WOULD BE ELIMINATING ONE OF THE ONLY CHAIN HOTEL MOTELS AND THE TOWN LIMITS, ASIDE FROM THE SUPER EIGHT, WHICH I DON'T THINK IS, YOU KNOW, FREQUENTED AS MUCH.
UM, SO I THINK IT'S A DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD.
YES, THERE'S PLACES OUT IN THE COUNTY, BUT THERE'S PROS AND CONS TO HOW IT WILL IMPACT THE TOWN TO REMOVE ANOTHER ONE FROM THE TOWN.
AND ANOTHER THING I WASN'T THINKING ABOUT, BUT RIGHT.
'CAUSE MY, MY FRIENDS JUST, OH MY GOSH, CAME FROM RENO.
THEY STAYED AT BAYMONT 'CAUSE THEY WANTED TO BE CLOSE TO SKY DRIVE.
I WAS GONNA SAY, WE JUST, IF PEOPLE HAVE QUESTIONS, WE WANNA GIVE 'EM TO STAFF.
UM, I, I, WELL I WORKED AT THE QUALITY INN, IT WAS QUALITY IN WHEN I WORKED THERE TOO.
WERE YOU BELLHOP? I WAS A BELLHOP.
LIKE, IT MUST HAVE BEEN REALLY FANCY.
WELL, I WIN BECAUSE I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, MR. WILKINSON.
ONE TIME, BECAUSE IT WAS THE NICEST PROPERTY, YOU HAD AMENITIES LIKE A BELLHOP, LUGG, I MEAN THE LARGER YEAH.
IF ANYBODY HAD ANY ASK NOW OR WE CAN ALWAYS SEND THEM TO LAUREN BEFORE WE
[00:50:01]
PUT THIS BACK.THE POINT, THE POINT THAT I WAS I WAS GONNA MAKE WAS, I GUESS WAS I WAS GONNA TAG ON TO, UH, COUNCILMAN WOODS POINTS.
UM, THE, THE BUSINESS CLIMATE OF, OF THE WHOLE MAIN, EVERYONE WANTS A MOTEL IN THEIR CENTER CITY, RIGHT? I MEAN, THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT.
BUT THE, THE BUSINESS CLIMATE WITH THE, WITH THE ACTUAL BUSINESSES OF RETAIL HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY.
YOU KNOW, THE JOBBERS THAT USED TO SALESMAN, THEY, THEY USED TO COME AND THEY, AND THEY WOULD COME LIKE EVERY MONTH AND THEY WOULD STAY A WEEK.
I MEAN, CATO'S WAS ON MAIN STREET, YOU KNOW, NEWBURY'S, MACQUARIE'S, ALL THESE PLACES, WESTERN AUTO, UH, JOE, THE MOTORIST, UH, YOU KNOW, I'M MENTIONING NAMES THAT FOLKS I REMEMBER ROSES
WHAT WAS IT THAT SAME, BRUCE, I'M FOLLOWING YOU BECAUSE I'M THAT OLD.
YOU'RE THEN WERE MR. WALLER'S BUSINESSES THAT, THAT WAS SUNBURY.
IT WAS A SHOE STORE AND THEN THERE WERE THREE JEWELERS AND THERE WERE, AND THERE WERE THREE CLOTHING SHOPS.
SO EVERYTHING SWITCHED TO ONLINE RETAIL.
AND, AND THESE PEOPLE HAD TO HAVE SOME, THESE SALESMEN HAD TO HAVE SOME PLACE TO STAY AND THEY PROBABLY STAYED LIKE THREE OR FOUR DAYS.
SO YOU'RE NOT GETTING THAT FROM THE MOTEL PERSPECTIVE.
AND YOU CAN'T, IT'S HARD TO HAVE A MOTEL AND NOT, AND NOT, UH, ONLY DO BUSINESS ON THE WEEKENDS WHEN, RIGHT.
WELL, THAT'S WHAT OUR DOWNTOWN SHOPS ARE FACING TOO.
THEY ONLY SEE PEOPLE DURING PEAK SEASON FOR THE MOST PART.
SO KEEPS AGAIN, THE BUSINESS CLIMATE'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
SO, UH, SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND.
UH, AND WHEN YOU BRING UP, IS IT 50,000 THE LODGING TAX OR IS IT 15? YOU HAVE $50,000 TO OUR BUDGET'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE GONNA RECOUP THAT IN SALES AND MEAL TAX FROM THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WALKING OVER FROM THEIR APARTMENT.
AND JUST FOR SOME BACKSTORY, FOR THOSE WHO WEREN'T ON COUNCIL, THEY WEREN'T PRIVY TO IT.
I MEAN, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF PROPOSED IDEAS FOR THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY.
ONLY YEARS I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL.
I MEAN, A CASINO TRIED TO BUY IT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO AND PUT A WALKWAY, GLASS BRIDGE WALKWAY FROM THERE TO MAIN STREET THAT WAS PUT BEFORE US.
I MEAN, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE COME FROM THIS PARTICULAR AREA TO SEE WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST.
AND LIKE YOU SAID, THE RETAIL CLIMATE HAS CHANGED.
I DON'T GO TO THE STORE FOR ANYTHING.
I AMAZON BATTERIES, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER.
UM, AND THAT'S THE DAY AND AGE THAT WE LIVE IN.
BUT ALSO, WITH THAT BEING SAID, THE CONCERN I HAVE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT FAIRNESS AND WORKFORCE HOUSING AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING THAT I'VE FACED AND I'VE SEEN OTHER PEOPLE FACE IS IF YOU PUT A CAP ON IT, THEN PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING AN HONEST LIVING LOCALLY CAN'T AFFORD OR THEY MAKE TOO MUCH TO RENT IT, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO RENT IT.
OR WITH THE ISSUE WITH RETAIL AND HOW IT'S CHANGED THE CLIMATE LOCALLY, UM, IF THESE ARE CONVERTED TO APARTMENTS AND THEY'RE DONE WELL AND THEY'RE NICE AND THEY'RE AESTHETICALLY PLEASING TO THE TOWN, UM, AND THEN THEY DON'T GO AS EXPECTED BY THE WORK FORCED HOUSING PEOPLE, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY BUSINESS SENSE TO LEAVE THEM SET EMPTY.
SO AT THAT POINT, THE OWNER WOULD THEN BE FORCED TO CHANGE THEIR STANDARDS FOR RENTERS.
IF YOU HAVE 39 UNITS AND YOU KNOW, NINE OF THEM ARE TAKEN BY TEACHERS AND FIREFIGHTERS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT OR WHATEVER, SALES PEOPLE, AND THEN YOU HAVE 30 STILL SITTING VACANT, YOU'RE PROBABLY GONNA RECONSIDER YOUR REQUIREMENTS TO RENT TO GET THOSE THINGS MOVING AND SHAKEN AFTER YOU'VE PUT SUCH AN INVESTMENT INTO IT.
SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS TO THINK ABOUT.
AND I'M SORRY I MISSED THE MEMO ABOUT THE TOURS.
UM, I WILL CERTAINLY CHECK FOR THAT AGAIN AND I WILL REACH OUT TO THEM MYSELF.
I LIVE, YOU KNOW, RIGHT UP BEHIND THERE.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT THERE ARE QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE FOR BJ, NOT NECESSARILY LAUREN, BEFORE I'D BE WILLING TO HAVE THIS ADVERTISED TOMORROW.
I'D MAKE A MOTION TO POSTPONE OR KEEP THE PUBLIC HEARING OPEN.
AND I DID TRY TO ASK SOME DETAILS AT A PRIOR WORK SESSION AND I WAS TOLD IT WASN'T BEFORE THIS COUNCIL, SO WE COULDN'T SPEAK YET, WHICH I RESPECT AND UNDERSTAND.
BUT A MEMO THAT I COULD HAVE GOTTEN INFORMATION FROM SOMEONE WOULD'VE BEEN NICE.
SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS THAT, THAT SOME QUESTIONS AND MAYBE THERE ARE OTHER QUESTIONS WHEN YOU LEAVE HERE
[00:55:01]
TONIGHT.THAT, THAT YOU HAVE, I WOULD SAY GET THEM TO WHOEVER ON STAFF AND OR IF NOT ON STAFF, STAFF CAN GET IT FROM THE, THE APPLICANT.
YOU KNOW, WE CAN, ANY WAY THAT WE CAN GET OUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED.
UM, MY CONCERN IS PUTTING THIS ON THE NEXT WORK SESSION, WHICH IS NEXT MONDAY, DOESN'T REALLY GIVE ANYBODY ANY OPPORTUNITY TO GET A TON OF QUESTIONS ANSWERED.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? WHICH WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH TIME TO ADVERTISE IT FOR 2080 EITHER.
AND ALSO, JUST TO ADD TO THAT, FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT BE FRUSTRATED WITH MY PROPOSAL, I THINK THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF PUBLIC HEARINGS SLATED FOR MAY 28TH, AS YOU SEE BEFORE US.
AND I THINK OF ALL OF THEM, THIS IS THE ONE THAT'S GOING TO BRING SPEAKERS.
SO I THINK IF THIS WASN'T ON AN AGENDA WITH SEVEN OTHER PUBLIC HEARINGS OR HOWEVER MANY THERE ARE, RIGHT THERE, SEVEN, UM, IT WOULD BE TO OUR BENEFIT AND THE APPLICANT'S BENEFIT AND THE PEOPLE WHO WISH TO COME AND SPEAK BENEFIT BECAUSE IT'S A PACKED AGENDA, FULL PUBLIC HEARINGS.
AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK US NECESSARILY GETTING ALL OF THAT FEEDBACK AND MAKING A DECISION IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS, AFTER A LONG NIGHT AND A LONG AGENDA IS FAIR OR RESPONSIBLE.
SO WHAT THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT IS THAT THE WEEK FROM NOW WOULD BE TOO SOON THEN WE SHOULD PROBABLY MOVE THIS TO THE JUNE THE FIRST WEEK.
WHAT'S TODAY THE SIXTH, RIGHT? SO YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT, SO WE CAN E WE COULD HAVE IT ON THE 13TH OR WE COULD GIVE PEOPLE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THEIR QUESTIONS, GET QUESTIONS FROM STAFF AND HAVE IT THE JUNE 3RD.
IF WE DON'T, IF WE DON'T PUBLIC, IF WE DON'T ADVERTISE IT TOMORROW FOR THE MAY 28TH, WE WOULDN'T BE ADVER YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET IT UNTIL THE JUNE 22ND MEETING ANYWAY.
SO MOVING THE NEXT WORK SESSION TO JUNE 3RD, AND I'M TRYING TO THINK WHAT IS THE ONE FOR HORIZON? 'CAUSE JOE AND I ALWAYS LOOK, WE ALWAYS LOOK A FEW MEETINGS OUT JUST TO THINK ABOUT WHAT'S ON THE LIST.
AND I FEEL LIKE, I FEEL LIKE JUNE 3RD DOESN'T HAVE A TON OF STUFF.
ONCE, SO WE HAD VERY LIKE PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA.
SO SO JUNE 3RD COULD BE LIGHT THEN AS, AND THAT GIVES US ENOUGH TIME TO ADVERTISE FOR THE JUNE PUBLIC HEARING.
THAT DOESN'T, I, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT'S WHEN EVERYTHING, BUT THAT USUALLY, ESPECIALLY THE FIRST, UM, WORK SESSION IS USUALLY WHEN WE HAVE THESE TYPES OF THINGS.
SO OUR FIRST WORK SESSIONS USUALLY THE ONE THAT, UM, DEALS MORE WITH, UH, PLANNING AND ZONING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO, UM, UNLESS ANYBODY IS ABSOLUTELY ADAMANT THAT WE HAVE IT ON MAY 13TH, MY THOUGHT WOULD BE JUNE 3RD WOULD BE A BETTER CHOICE.
BUT I, BUT I, WE CAN MAKE IT NEXT WEEK.
I JUST, ALL I WAS SAYING IS THAT'S GONNA MAKE EVERYBODY HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH HURDLES QUICKLY AND GET, CHANGE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THE VISIT IF YOU WANNA VISIT AND ASK THE QUESTIONS.
AND IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE TIME OF THE PUBLIC HEARING RIGHT.
BY HAVING IT MAY 13TH VERSUS JUNE 3RD.
AND COUNSEL BE REACHING OUT TO THE STAFF MEMBERS THEY NEED CLARIFICATION FROM, OR WOULD YOU, ARE YOU INSTRUCTING PLANNING AND ZONING TO REACH OUT TO THIS? I'M INSTRUCTING COUNSEL TO, BUT I THINK THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS TONIGHT THAT ALREADY CAME OUT, BUT MAYBE JUST TO CLARIFY, UH, I'LL REACH OUT TO THE COURT.
BUT, UM, WAS THERE ANYBODY THAT I, I KNOW BRUCE WAS ASKING ABOUT WORKFORCE HOUSING.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT REALLY A QUESTION BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING THEIR CHOICE TO DO.
I THINK ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WAS ABOUT UTILITIES.
I THINK THAT WAS ASKING WOULD IT BE INDIVIDUAL OR, UM, METERED WAS, WHAT WERE SOME OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS? OR DO PEOPLE WANT TO ASK THE ROOM AGAIN? I'LL ADD AGAIN, TAKES A TOUR AND, UH, THE GENTLEMAN WILL TELL YOU HE'S NOT METERING.
HE DOES NOT HAVE A WAY TO METER THE ELECTRICITY WATER.
I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HEAR THAT ONE.
IF YOU SAID THAT BEFORE Y'ALL WERE ALL, WHEN JOSH WAS SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT YOU CAN AND YOU CAN'T, SO I DIDN'T HEAR YOU SAY THAT, AND I DON'T THINK THAT WAS IN THE APPLICATION, BUT LAUREN SAID THE TOWN WOULD DECIDE AFTER THIS, UM, AFTER THIS IT WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THAT DEPARTMENT, WHICH SHE SAID YEAH, HE WOULD BE SUBMITTING HIS APPLICATIONS.
WE DO REVIEWING IT AND I DON'T THINK HE GETS TO MAKE THE FINAL DECISION ON THAT.
SHE SAID IT GOES TO THE ELECTRIC DEPARTMENT AND ALL OF THOSE DEPARTMENTS, ELECTED DEPARTMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS TO DO A REVIEW OF THEIR APPLICATION.
AND WE'LL LET HIM KNOW AND DETERMINE HOW THE UTILITIES ARE HANDLED OR EVEN, UM, SOLID WASTE TOO.
SO, BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, THIS WOULD BE A, THIS WOULD BE A GOOD TIME FOR PEOPLE TO GET THOSE OUT.
UM, I WILL SAY THAT, UM, DURING THE TOUR, UM,
[01:00:01]
HE DID COMMUNICATE THAT HE WAS LOOKING FOR FOLKS WHO WERE LOCAL, NOT, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE BECAUSE I, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, HE CAN GET ANY PRICE FROM SOMEBODY FROM NORTHERN VIRGINIA MOVING, YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT TOO.UM, YOU KNOW, IF HE WANTED TO, HE COULD PROBABLY MAKE HIM $2,000 AND SOMEBODY WOULD COME OVER AND RENT IT.
YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S NOT, SO IT'S A HARD CALL BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE RIGHT NOW OF BOTH THE CREDIT STANDING OF OUR AVERAGE CITIZEN OR THE INCOME OF OUR AVERAGE CITIZEN.
SO I DON'T KNOW THAT, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE COULD REALLY, YEAH, YOU CAN LOOK AT MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME AND ALL THAT, BUT THAT TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION PEOPLE WHO COMMUTE AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, SO, YOU KNOW, OF INTEREST TO ME IS WE'VE, WE'VE DEFINITELY GOT, YOU KNOW, A HOMELESS POPULATION.
WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMPLAINING THAT THEY DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, SUFFICIENT NICE RENTAL PLACE THAT'S AVAILABLE NO MATTER WHAT YOU'RE IN, THAT ARE AFFORDABLE TO THEM, THAT ARE AFFORDABLE TO THEM.
AND I, YOU KNOW, I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S A PROBLEM WE CAN RESOLVE IN ANY ONE'S PLACE.
BUT IT'S SOMETHING I THINK WE HAVE TO CONSIDER AS WE'RE, AS WE'RE LOOKING AT IT, YOU KNOW, THE PRIORITY NEEDS TO BE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING HERE AND THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE HERE RIGHT NOW.
WELL, I WILL SAY THAT A COUPLE, NOT THIS COUNCIL CAN, MIGHT HAVE BEEN THERE AT THE TIME, BUT WHEN I WAS, UM, WHEN I CAME TO COUNCIL ABOUT THE, UM, WHAT THE POLICE CHIEF AND ASHLYN HAD DONE AND, AND THE, THE, JUST THE, UM, EVERYTHING THEY HAD DONE IN ASHLAND WITH LIKE MOTELS, HOTELS AND BRINGING THEM UP AND, AND, UM, IMPROVING THEIR SITUATIONS THERE.
SOME OF THE PLACES HAD GONE TO LIKE BECOMING, UM, LIKE RENTAL APARTMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND THERE MANY PEOPLE IN COUNCIL AT THE TIME THAT WERE NOT HAPPY WITH, WITH ME BRINGING IT OR WHAT CAME UP.
THERE WAS A LOT OF, UM, THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE, I WON'T SAY A LOT, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF COUNCIL, RIGHT.
UM, SO I WAS ON THE COUNCIL AT THE TIME.
SO, UM, BUT PEOPLE THAT, THAT EXPRESSED THAT BY, BY THESE HOTELS HAVING TO, UM, IMPROVE OR UPDATE, YOU KNOW, DO THINGS LIKE THAT.
OR TURNING SOME INTO APARTMENTS THAT WE WERE ACTUALLY PUTTING PEOPLE OUT OF HOMES BECAUSE AT THIS PLACE, THE CHILDREN THAT ARE IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, THERE WAS A LOT OF ARE LIVING IN THIS, THERE ARE SOME AT BAYMONT.
AND THAT, THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT WAS THE, UH, RETORT BACK TO ME.
SO, UM, SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALMOST LIKE A PUNISHMENT TO THOSE THAT KIND.
I WILL ALSO ADD IN ANY CRITICISM OR IT'S NOT EVEN CRITICISM, UH, DIALECT THAT I'VE ADDED TO THIS CONVERSATION TONIGHT.
I'M VERY PLEASED TO SEE, BECAUSE I DRIVE PAST IT 15 TIMES A DAY TO GET HOME AND BACK.
UH, THAT THE RENDERINGS ARE MUCH MORE AESTHETICALLY PLEASING THAN THE CURRENT STATE OF IT.
I WAS, I LOOK AT IT ALL THE TIME AND I'M LIKE, HOW IS THAT GONNA BE? WHAT KIND OF APARTMENT COMPLEX IS THAT GONNA LOOK LIKE? BUT THE RENDERINGS LOOK VERY NICE.
I WAS COMING INSIDE, I HAD NOT BEEN INSIDE IN YEARS AND, AND IT, YOU KNOW, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S BEING WELL TAKEN CARE OF NOW, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF ALSO VERY EXCITED TO HEAR THAT FUNERAL T IS STAYING.
THE WHAT NOW? THE THAI RESTAURANT.
BUT, AND I WILL SAY TOO, WE'VE ALREADY SEEN SOME OTHER, UM, SITUATIONS IN TOWN WHERE PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO TAKE AS, AS GLEN SAID, LIKE OLDER PROPERTIES THAT WERE BUILT, YOU KNOW, YEARS AGO, AND REALLY JUST BRING THEM UP TO QUALITY PLACES.
SO I, I DEFINITELY THINK IT CAN BE DONE.
AND THE RENDERINGS LOOK, LOOK WONDERFUL.
WE HAVE A SPECIAL EXCEPTION NOW.
SO THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION PORTION OF THIS IS FOR, IS RELATED TO THE PARKING.
SO THE PREVIOUS ASK WAS, IS THE CONVERSION USE, IS IT APPROPRIATE ON THAT PIECE OF PROPERTY? THIS ASK IS THEN, UM, THEY'RE BASICALLY ASKING TO BE ABLE TO USE THE EXISTING PARKING LOT.
SO OUR CODE RIGHT NOW, THEY HAVE 106 PARKING SPACES.
OUR CODE REQUIRES THAT THOSE PARKING SPACES WOULD BE ENLARGED FROM NINE BY 18 TO 10 BY 20 FOR AN APARTMENT USE.
AND THEN IT ALSO REQUIRES TWO PARKING SPACES PER UNIT.
AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE A 30 FOOT SETBACK, WHICH AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE, THE RENDERING THAT KNOCKS OUT THE MAJORITY OF THE PARKING SPACES THAT THEY HAVE.
SO WHEN THIS WENT TO PLANNING COMMISSION AND PUBLIC HEARING PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED THAT, UM, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION BE APPROVED.
SO WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR IS A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO, UM, REDUCE OR REMOVE
[01:05:01]
THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT.AND THAT THE EXISTING SPACES WHICH ARE NINE BY 18 BE PERMITTED TO BE USED.
INSTEAD OF REQUIRING THE 10 BY 20 SPACE, THEY ARE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE TWO PARKING SPACES PER UNIT SO THEY CAN ACCOMMODATE 78 PARKING SPACES ON THE SITE CURRENTLY.
UH, SO THERE'S NO REDUCTION IN PARKING.
IT IS JUST, CAN THEY FREE STRIPE AND USE THE EXISTING PARKING LOT? AND YOU DO MEAN LIKE BEHIND IT, RIGHT? YEAH, BECAUSE WHAT'S IN THE FRONT WHERE THE RESTAURANT IS? YEAH.
SO THE RESTAURANT PARKING IS SEPARATE, SO THAT FRONT PARKING IS RESTAURANT.
THE REMAINDER OF THE PARKING SPACES WOULD BE FOR THE APARTMENT USE.
AND IF YOU'D LIKE THE COUNTY, YOU CAN, BUT THERE ARE 78, THERE'S AMPLE PARKING THERE, THERE'S TWO SPACES PER UNIT.
UM, AND THAT'S WITH THE EXPANSION OF THE GREEN SPACE AREA BY THE POOL, THEY'RE ABLE TO THROW IN A COUPLE OF EXTRA PARKING SPACES ALONG THAT PORTION.
WELL YOU SAID A HUNDRED AND YOU SAY RIGHT NOW THERE'S 106.
IF SO, IF WE DON'T CHANGE THE SPACE SIZES, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO SOME RECONFIGURING WITH LIKE DRY VILES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND YOU'RE, THIS ENTIRE SPACE HERE IS GETTING, UM, IT'S GETTING REDONE.
SO THOSE RIGHT THERE, THOSE ARE ALL GONE.
AND THAT'S, SOME OF THESE HE HAVE IS THE LOT NEXT DOOR.
DO YOU HAVE TO, HE OWNS THE OTHER TWO LOTS NEXT DOOR AS WELL.
IT'S THE SAME PROPERTY OWNER, BUT THIS, THIS WOULD ALLOW HIM TO DO SOMETHING ELSE? NO, IT WOULD BE TWO SPACES PER UNIT.
SHOW APPLICATIONS, THEN ONE, AND THEN WE INCLUDED THE EMAIL IN THERE WHERE THEY AMENDED THEIR APPLICATION.
THEY REALIZED THEY COULD GET THE TWO SPACES PER, UM, DWELLING UNIT AND LESS, I GONNA ASK IS BETTER.
UM, IT IS, I MEAN THIS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT COUNTS ONCE, BUT I'LL SAY THIS, LIKE IF, IF ALREADY IT'S NINE BY 18 AND PEOPLE ARE PULLING IN THERE AND THEY'RE NOT UPSET ABOUT IT BEING TIGHT, THEN I DON'T SEE, AND IN GENERAL, I MEAN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN DOES SUPPORT THIS.
WE, IN THE IMPLEMENTATION MATRIX, WE DO CALL OUT SPECIFICALLY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE RENOVATION AND REHABILITATION OF THESE LARGE HOTEL PROPERTIES INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
SO, AND, AND IT DOES STATE FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING OPTIONS THAT YOU CAN USE OLD HOTELS FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING PURPOSES.
SO THIS IS IN LINE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UM, AND THIS IS JUST, THIS IS JUST HOUSING.
WELL, IT'S ALSO IN LINE, LINE FOR REHABILITATION REVITALIZATION.
I'M SAYING, YOU SAID IN THE COMP PLAN IT'S AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
WE HAVE IT IN THE YEAH, WE HAVE IT IN THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING SECTION.
WE MAKE MENTION OF SIMILAR THINGS IN THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CHAPTER.
UM, BUT THIS, THE FIRST ASK IS, IS THE CONVERSION APPROPRIATE? IS IT APPROPRIATE FOR THIS STRUCTURE ON THIS PROPERTY TO GO FROM A HOTEL TO 39 DWELLING UNITS? THIS QUESTION HERE, THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS BASICALLY CAN WE JUST USE THE NINE BY 18 PARKING SPACES AND NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW THAT 30 FOOT SETBACK REQUIREMENT? WELL, IT WOULD APPEAR THAT IT WOULD BE SILLY TO DISCUSS THIS.
I MEAN, I WAS GONNA SAY G ONLY GOES FORWARD IF, UH, YEAH.
SO AS WE, AS HAS BEEN MENTIONED MANY TIMES IT'S, IT'S F THAT TRIGGERS THE SNAPSHOT LOOK AT PARKING.
SO THIS WOULD, THE CHANGE OF USE OR THE EXPANDED USE IS WHAT TRIGGERS A REVIEW OF PARKING? UH, I WOULD ASSUME THAT THIS WOULD BE BROUGHT BACK WITH WHEN THE OTHER IS BROUGHT BACK, CORRECT? THAT'S YES.
YEAH, SAME THING FOR, SO MS. PRESLEY, WE WOULD JUST ADD THIS TO THE JUNE 3RD, UM, JUNE 3RD MEETING, ASSUMING NO THAT, ASSUMING THAT ON JUNE 3RD EVERYBODY GETS THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED ABOUT WHAT TWO F IS, THEN WE WOULD ENTERTAIN WHAT THE TOPIC OF TWO G IS.
I KNOW THERE'LL BE DIFFERENT LETTERS AND I GUESS WHAT WASN'T MENTIONED IS G IS A CONDITION OF F, RIGHT? NOT YES.
I UNDERSTAND IT'S CURRENTLY PROPOSED.
NO, WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT ON JUNE 3RD, WE'LL HAVE BOTH OF THESE ON THE AGENDA.
BUT I'M SAYING THAT IF F EVERY STILL HAS MORE QUESTIONS AND WE AREN'T READY TO TAKE IT TO A PUBLIC HEARING, THEN G WOULD WAIT UNTIL WE ARE SO WITH THE ASSUMPTION THAT BY JUNE 3RD WE SHOULD HAVE MORE INFORMATION.
BUT AGAIN, IT'S GONNA TAKE PEOPLE ASKING IT TO MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU, YOU ARE ALL RIGHT.
MOVING ON TO THREE A, WHICH YOU GOT THE LUCKY WINNER OF THAT ONE TOO.
SO, UM, THE APPLICANT HAS REQUESTED A CURB AND GUTTER, UH, WAIVER,
[01:10:01]
UM, ON AR AT 16TH STREET.UM, SO THEY SUBMITTED THIS REQUEST A COUPLE MONTHS AGO, BUT UNDER 1 48, 8 50 C, IT ALLOWS FOR THEM TO REQUEST THE, UM, WAIVER.
TOWN COUNCIL HAS TO MAKE THE FINAL DECISION.
THEY, UH, IT'S A SIDEWALK WAIVER, A SIDEWALK, SIDEWALK WAIVER.
UM, THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS LOCATED WITHIN 300 FEET OF THE PROPERTY.
THAT'S WHAT MAKES THEM ELIGIBLE TO ASK.
UH, THE NEAREST SIDEWALK IS LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 1045 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY.
UM, THAT IS AT THE END OF THAT STREET.
SO LIKE, UM, IF YOU PUT A SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF IT, IT'S LIKE A STATIC.
I KNOW THERE WAS TALK, IT'S A SIDEWALK TO NOWHERE.
BUT, BUT IT'S NOT, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME POINT WE MIGHT HAVE TO DO THE WHOLE ROAD, UM, AND, AND THIS WOULD ADD ONTO IT, BUT, UM, FOR YEARS, YEAH.
ANYWAY, PUTTING, PUTTING IT IN FRONT OF THERE DOES NOT AESTHETICALLY CHANGE ANYTHING REALLY OTHER THAN, THAN GO ANYWHERE.
WE JUST HAVE THE REQUIREMENT IN OUR CODE THAT ANY NEW, UH, DEVELOPMENT HAS TO PROVIDE IT.
UM, AND I, YEAH, SO I DON'T SEE A PROBLEM WITH, SO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A VOTE ON THIS, BUT YOU ALL KNOW THE LAST TIME SOMETHING LIKE THIS CAME BEFORE, THAT WAS ONE OF THE TIMES I DID BREAK A TIE.
AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING MR. RAPPAPORT AND I, IT WAS CURBING THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SIDEWALK.
BUT IT GOES, BUT IT GOES, THE WHOLE SIDEWALK THING HAS BEEN THAT THAT CAN'S BEEN KICKED DOWN THE ROAD FOR LIKE 40 YEARS.
BUT IS IT A GOAL? IT HAPPENED OVERNIGHT.
IS IT A GOAL OF THIS COUNCIL TO, TO HAVE SIDE, LIKE, TO MAKE IT BE MORE A WALKABLE COMMUNITY? I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE, OOPS, YOU TALKED ABOUT.
I'M, I'M JUST SAYING THAT IT IS THE ONLY THING ABOUT THESE TYPES OF THINGS, IT'S JUST LIKE WHAT WE SAID ABOUT THE CURB AND GUTTER THE LAST TIME IS, IS THAT IF EVERY TIME SOMEBODY IS GOING TO BUILD OR DO SOMETHING AND WE WAIVE WHAT WE HAVE IN OUR TOWN CODE, THEN WHEN WE, WHEN, IF IT'S 20 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, 30 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD WHEN WE GET READY TO DO IT, THEN EVERY OTHER CITIZEN IS PAYING FOR THE SIDEWALKS IN FRONT OF, YOU KNOW, IN FRONT OF THESE NEW DEVELOPMENTS.
YOU KNOW? BUT THAT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S WHAT I, I MEAN WE, WE HAD TO PAY FOR THE SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE, OR THE CURB AND GUTTER IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE.
AND THEN AFTER THAT, COUNCIL STOPPED CHARGING PEOPLE CURB AND GUTTER.
AND THERE ARE ACTUALLY PEOPLE IN THIS TOWN RIGHT NOW WHO HAVE LIENS ON THEIR PROPERTY THAT IF THEY EVER, IF THEY SELL 'EM OR THEIR CHILDREN GO TO SELL THEM OR WHOEVER THEIR HEIRS, WHEN THEY GO TO SELL THEM, THERE'S A LIEN ON THEIR PROPERTY TO PAY FOR THE CURB AND CUTTER THAT THE TOWN USED TO CHARGE, THEY CHARGED AND THEY DIDN'T CHARGE AND THEY CHARGED.
AND SO I, I'M JUST SAYING LIKE, I THINK REGARDLESS ABOUT THIS SITUATION, I THINK IF, ONCE AGAIN, I'VE SAID THIS A MILLION TIMES, IF PE IF WE AREN'T GONNA ENFORCE WHAT'S IN OUR CODE OR IN OUR ORDINANCES, THEN WE, WHY DO WE HAVE IT IN THERE? MAYBE WE REMOVE IT OR MAYBE WE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS, BUT YES, THROW THIS IDEA OUT AGAIN.
MAYBE WE CREATE A FUND THAT SIDEWALK PROBABLY WON'T BE BUILT IN OUR LIFETIME, BUT AT SOME POINT IN TIME, TO YOUR POINT, UM, YEAH, MAYBE, MAYBE IT'LL BE BUILT AND IF THE APPLICANT TODAY'S DOLLARS, PUT SOME MONEY IN A FUND, THEN FUTURE COUNSELS HAVE SOME MONEY AT LEAST TO GO, UM, SET ASIDE SOME OF THE COSTS.
WELL THAT'S HOW, THAT'S HOW WE ENDED UP PAYING FOR OUR CURBING GUTTER, IS THEY HAD A CURBING GUTTER SALE.
AND WE PAID AHEAD AT THE COST OF WHAT IT WOULD COST AT THAT TIME.
AND SO THAT THEN WHEN THEY DID PUT IT IN OURS, OURS WAS PAID FOR.
BUT IF THE TOWN CAME IN AND PAVED YOUR ROAD AND PUT CURBING GUTTER IN AND YOU HADN'T PAID IN, THEN YOU WERE GONNA BE CHARGED THE COST OF WHAT IT, WHAT IT COST THEM TO PUT IN.
SO LIKE I KNOW MYSELF, LIKE ON OUR STREET, THERE WERE A FEW NEIGHBORS I TALKED TO AT THE TIME, AND WE DID THE, WE, WE DID THE PAY AHEAD, THEN THEY CAME IN LIKE TWO TO THREE YEARS LATER, PAID THE WHOLE STREET.
AND ANYBODY WHO DIDN'T PAY IN PAID THE COST OF IT THEN.
AND LIKE I SAID, THEY HAVE, WHICH IS STILL BAFFLING ME, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE LIENS ON THEIR PROPERTY TO PAY FOR THE, THE TOWN HAS LIENS ON THE PROPERTY, PAY FOR THE CURB AND GUTTER THAT THEY, THAT YOU PUT IN.
BUT NOW WE DON'T CHARGE FOR IT IF, IF WE COME IN AND PUT IT IN LATER.
[01:15:04]
SO DO PEOPLE DO, DO WE, IT'S NOT A PUBLIC HEARING, IT'S LITERALLY SOMETHING THE COUNCIL DECIDES WHETHER OR NOT THEY WISH TO WAIVE IT OR, UM, WAS THERE ANY REASON GIVEN BY THE APPLICANT A WAIVER? YEAH, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ONE WITH AN OVER A THOUSAND FEET AWAY.THEY'D BE THE ONLY HOUSE ON THAT STREET WITH IT.
WHAT'S THE PURPOSE AND THE MONEY? I MEAN, IT COSTS MONEY TO PUT THE SIDEWALK IN.
I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, I WONDER WHAT WE ALL KNOW, WHAT IT WOULD COST ON ER ROAD.
WONDER WHAT IT WOULD COST TO PUT A SIDEWALK IN ON 16TH STREET.
I FEEL LIKE SOMEBODY TOLD US A WHILE BACK WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, UH, MAYBE ROBBIE OR SOMEBODY THAT'S CURTAIN.
AND I THINK IT CAME OUT TO BE A COUPLE THOUSAND.
IT WAS WAY LESS THAN WHAT WE EXPECTED, BUT I THINK THAT WAS CURB AND GUTTER.
SO I MEAN, I DON'T THINK IT'D BE TOO TERRIBLY MUCH MORE THAN THAT.
THEY JUST PUT A NEW SIDEWALK IN WHERE THE CAR WASH IS GOING.
THEY TORE OUT THE OLD WITH CUTS.
SO THE TRAFFIC NORMALLY IS ROUTED, WILL BE ROUTED UP, UH, 13TH STREET, IN AND OUT, WHICH YOU WON'T HAVE ALL THE PEOPLE TRYING TO GET IN AND OUT THERE.
SO THAT WOULD BE A GOOD ONE IF WE COULD GET THAT COST.
I MEAN, THAT WAS LIKE LAST WEEK.
THAT WOULD BE PRETTY CURRENT FOR US.
AND IT'S ROUND, IT'S A LITTLE ROUNDED, BUT IT'D BE A BE, IT'D PROBABLY BE CHEAPER AND THEY TO PROBABLY BE CHEAPER, THEY TORE OUT THE OLD AND THEN PUT IT IN YOU.
SO I MEAN, WE COULD LOOK AT THAT AS GIVING US A CURRENT.
JOHN, DO YOU KNOW THE COST, THE BOND ESTIMATE FOR THAT PROJECT FOR CARBON AND GUTTER? UH, IN OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR FOR THAT PROJECT, $42 PER LINEAR FOOT OF CURB AND GUTTER SIDEWALK CAME OUT AT $45 PER SQUARE YARD.
THAT INCLUDES THE, UH, GRAVEL BASE.
SO LARGE PROJECTS DO CALL, UH, REQUIRE, WE REQUIRE, REQUIRE A BOND ESTIMATE FOR LARGE PROJECTS.
SO WE WILL FOR CURB AND CUTTER.
AND THEN 42 FOR CURB AND CUTTER FOOT FOR LINEAR FOOT.
AND THE OTHER ONE WAS SQUARE YARDS SQUARE YARD.
AND THAT'S WITH THE GRAVEL IS THE 45 45 PER SQUARE YARD FOR THE SIDEWALK.
IT WAS GRAVEL BASE OR WHATEVER.
AND UM, AGAIN, THAT WAS LAST FALL.
SO PRICES HAVE PROBABLY WENT UP IN THE LAST NINE MONTHS.
I'M STILL PRETTY CHEAP TO THEIR BELIEF.
OR DOES IT HAVE IT DOESN'T HAVE THE, I GUESS I DON'T, YEAH, IT DOESN'T HAVE THE SCRIPT, BUT ANYWHERE.
WE COULD, WE COULDN'T CALCULATE IT OURSELVES ANYWAY.
WELL, IT'S GOT SOMETHING DOWN HERE, OLD LOT, SIX OLD LOT.
HOW MUCH SQUARE FEET? THAT'S JUST A LOT.
YEAH, HE SUB DIVIDED THAT PORTION OUT.
I'M JUST GONNA BE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE AND SAY, UM, DESPITE MY DESIRE FOR SIDEWALKS, AND WE DID THIS ABOUT CURBING GUTTER AND IT WENT BACK AND FORTH AND I ENDED UP SWITCHING MY VOTE ON ONE OF 'EM THE NIGHT OF, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW IF WE PIECEMEAL THEM TOGETHER AND THIS ONE WE COULD REQUIRE IT, YOU KNOW, THIS MONTH.
AND THEN THE GRANDFATHER DID ONES.
IT COULD BE 60 YEARS BEFORE THE TOWN ADDS TO IT.
IT'S FOR THE USE OF THE PEOPLE IN THAT HOUSE TO PLAY ON BASICALLY WITH SIDEWALK CHALK.
WHEN IS THE TOWN PLANNING TO PUT THE REST OF THAT SIDEWALK IN THE WALK? THE WATER FLOW ALONG THE STREET.
IT HAS CARBON GUTTER PRESENT THOUGH.
THE WHOLE STREET HAS CARBON GUT.
SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT SAFETY, IT'S NOT EVEN THE AESTHETIC FOR ME.
IT'S THE, I WANTED SIDEWALKS FOR THE SAFETY AND WALKABILITY AND ACCESSIBILITY AND A DA, BUT THAT'S ACTUALLY A LITTLE BIT MORE OFFENSIVE TO PEOPLE IN A WHEELCHAIR TO HAVE AN ENTRANCE TO A SIDEWALK THAT LEADS YOU TO SOMEBODY ELSE'S GRASS YARD OR RIDE YOUR BICYCLE OR YOUR SCOOTER OR SKATEBOARD DOWN THE SIDEWALK TO END AND 10 15 FEET.
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE THAT IT SERVES? WHAT IS LIKE, THAT'S A NOT A RHETORICAL QUESTION.
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE THAT THIS LITTLE PIECE OF SIDEWALK WOULD SERVE THE TOWN? THAT I, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE HAVING IT IN OUR CODE THEN? RIGHT.
SO NEW DEVELOPERS HAVE TO PAY FOR IT, BUT PEOPLE, THERE'S NOT GONNA BE ANY OTHER NEW DEVELOPMENTS.
NO, I KNOW, BUT I'M SAYING THOUGH, SO IF, IF YOU'RE, WHAT I WAS SAYING, IF YOU'RE BUYING THE INFIELD LOTS IN TOWN,
[01:20:01]
YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO DO IT.WELL, MY, MY NOTE, MY INDICATION, I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO FINISH WHAT I WAS SAYING, BUT I KNOW THERE'S CURB GUTTER THERE, BUT IF YOU PUT SIDEWALK IN, IS THAT GONNA DISRUPT THE CURB AND GUTTER OR THEY'RE JUST GONNA LEAVE IT THERE, YOU KNOW? SO I DON'T KNOW.
SOMETIMES IF YOU GO DIG STUFF OUT, WE MIGHT HAVE TO DIG ALL THAT UP.
AND IT'S SIDEWALK THAT WE WOULD'VE TO HAVE MAINTAINED.
SO I JUST KNOW HISTORICALLY IF IF IT'S EXISTING CURB AND GUTTER AND YOU'RE PUTTING IN A NEW SIDEWALK, IF IT'S BEEN HERE FOR A LONG TIME WITHIN, IT JUST HAS, YOU KNOW, IT COULD, IT COULD, YOU CAN GET BY WITH IT AND THEN YOU MIGHT DIG AROUND IT THOUGH, AND IT MIGHT CRACK, YOU KNOW, SEE THE PURPOSE IT SERVES.
THEN IF YOU CRACK IT, THEN YOU GOTTA REPLACE IT.
SO THE THEORY BEHIND IT IS THAT EVENTUALLY THEY WOULD ALL CONNECT UP, BUT IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD IT MAY NOT BE FEASIBLE THAT THESE HOMES ARE GONNA BE REDEVELOPED THE NEAR FUTURE.
THERE'S NOT SOMETHING, A NEED TO KNOCK THESE DOWN AND REDEVELOP THEM.
AND THEN AT THAT, THERE'S NO OTHER INFILL LOTS.
YEAH, THIS WOULD BE THE ONLY ONE.
I SAY IT'S BECAUSE MY LOT IS ONE OF THE IDIOT LOTS ON WARREN AVENUE OR YOU KNOW, REMEMBER LIKE SAYING WHEN SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT TURNING OUT OF HER HOUSE AND LIKE GOING RIGHT TO SOMEBODY'S YARD, THAT WOULD WOULD'VE BEEN MY YARD.
SO YOU GO SIDEWALK, SIDEWALK, SIDEWALK, BOOM, THEN YOU'RE WALKING IN MY YARD AND PEOPLE DO IT ALL THE TIME.
THEY'LL WALK AROUND MY CAR BETWEEN MY CAR AND MY TRUCK.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S KIDS THROWING BASEBALLS AND STUFF.
I'VE SEEN EVERYTHING RIGHT UP, I MEAN, ALMOST IN, IN MY YARD.
BUT IT'S LIKE, WHAT DO I SAY TO 'EM? LIKE, YOU KNOW, GET OUTTA MY YARD.
OR JUST SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN DROPPED YOU HERE
AND WHEN I, THEN YOU TWO DOORS DOWN AND THEN IT CONTINUES.
BUT IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE, THERE'S A HUGE POTHOLE THAT KEEPS GROWING EVERY YEAR.
AND I KEEP TELLING MYSELF I NEED TO GO TO HOME DEPOT OR LOWE'S AND GET SOME COAL PATCH FOR IT, UM, TO FIX IT, WHICH I CAN PROBABLY DO IT MYSELF.
BUT THEN AGAIN, IT'S LIKE, WELL, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT, WHEN IT RAINS, YOU KNOW, I GOT A RIVER, YOU KNOW? RIGHT.
RUNNING RIGHT THROUGH MY CAR TIRE DOWN THE SIDEWALK.
DOWN THE SIDEWALK BECAUSE IT'S ABOVE YOU.
MY, MY HOUSE, MY NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE.
I WONDER WHY YOURS DIDN'T GET IT.
WELL, MY HOUSE, MY NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE WAS BUILT BY THE SAME DOOR AND, AND HE MUST HAVE GOTTEN A WAIVER BEFORE THE CODING BACK IN 19.
SO DO THE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF YOU, DID THEY NEWER? THEY'RE NEWER.
MY HOUSE IS PROBABLY THE OLDEST, ONE OF THE OLDEST HOUSES ON WARREN AVENUE, I THINK.
BELIEVE YOU AND YOUR NEIGHBOR HAVE TWO OF THE OLDEST HOUSES ON THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND THEN THE ONE I WAS IN WAS NEWER.
SO THE ONES BESIDE YOU, THEN WHEN THEY BUILT IT, THEY HAD TO PUT IT IN? WELL, IT WAS PUT IN AFTER THE FACT.
SO 'CAUSE THE ONE NEXT DOOR, WELL THE ONE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF ME IS JUST AS OLD, I THINK.
OR MAYBE, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT NEWER AROUND THE SAME PERIOD.
BUT I KNOW THAT CURB AND GUTTER WASN'T PUT BACK IN THE FORTIES, I DON'T THINK.
THEY USED TO ACTUALLY DO SPOT CURB AND GUTTER FOR A WHILE.
MATTER OF FACT, THEY ACTUALLY REPLACED IT BECAUSE HE ENDED UP MY, MY NEIGHBORS.
THAT'S WHY IT'S, IT'S DIFFERENT THERE NOW BECAUSE THEY REPLACED, THEY REPLACED THE LIKE SPOT SIDEWALKING, YOU KNOW, WALK AROUND MANAS.
IT'S ALL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF THAT IS WHAT THIS GOES, CAME IN LIKE 1940 MM-HMM.
UH, SO THE DEVELOPMENT GOES BACK 70.
SO, I MEAN, AND, AND SO EACH COUNCIL, YOU KNOW, DIDN'T REQUIRE IT.
SO WE GOT 70 YEARS WORTH OF YEAH.
WELL A LOT OF OUR HOUSES WERE SPOT BUILT AND MOST OF THE HOUSES HERE IN TOWN ARE, ARE, YOU KNOW, ANY, YOU KNOW, OLDER ONES ANYWAYS ARE, ARE, UH, ARE, I WOULDN'T SAY CUSTOM SO MUCH, BUT I MEAN THEY'RE, THEY'RE INDIVIDUAL HOUSES BUILT DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT PERIODS OF TIME.
I MEAN, HECK WITHIN A STONE STORE IN MY HOUSE, THEY'RE A HUNDRED YEARS OF HOUSING, YOU KNOW, HISTORY.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING.
ALRIGHT, READY MADAM MAYOR, I MOVE THAT TOWN COUNCIL CONVENE A CLOSED MEETING OF THE SECTIONS 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 1 AND 2.272 OF THE CODE OF FOR THE FOLLOWING PERSON, ONE, PURSUANT TO TWO, ONE OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA.
DISCUSSION, CONSIDERATION, ASSIGNMENT, PERFORMANCE, DEMOTION, SALARIES, DISCIPLINING OR RESIGNATION SPECIFIC PUBLIC OFFICERS, PS OR EMPLOYEES OF ANY PUBLIC BODY, MORE SPECIFICALLY THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND TWO, PURSUANT TO SECTION 2.3 DASH 3 7 11, AE OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR CONSULTATION WITH LEGAL COUNSEL EMPLOYED OR RETAINED BY A PUBLIC BODY REGARDING SPECIFIC LEGAL MATTERS REQUIRING THE PROVISION OF LEGAL ADVICE BY SUCH COUNSEL, MORE SPECIFICALLY, CONTRACTING FOR SOLID WASTE DISPOSAL.
[01:25:01]
CAN YOU DO ROLL CALL VICE MAYORCOUNCILMAN DE DAMON KING? YES.