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ALRIGHT.[Town Council Work Session on April 8, 2024.]
STARTED.I'M GONNA CALL THE FRONT ROW TOWN COUNCIL REGULAR WORK SESSION FOR MONDAY MAY ON MONDAY APRIL 8TH TO ORDER, UH, MS. PRESSLEY, CAN WE DO A ROLL CALL? MAYOR COCHRAN.
AT THIS TIME IS THERE ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THE AGENDA? UM, MADAM MAYOR.
UM, I'D LIKE TO MOVE THE COUNCIL AT A CLOSED MEETING AS NUMBER FIVE TO THE AGENDA PERTAINING TO THE CONDITIONAL VACATION AND SALE OF A PORTION OF NORTH ROYAL AVENUE AND AN UNIMPROVED ALLEYWAY BETWEEN NORTH ROYAL AVENUE AND VIRGINIA AVENUE.
WE HAVE A, A MOTION AND A SECOND TO MAKE THE CHANGE.
UM, AND, AND TO ADD THIS, IT HAS TO BE UNANIMOUS.
UM, SO MS. PRESS, YOU WANNA DO A WORLD CALL? VICE MAYOR OCK? YES.
OKAY, THEN WE WILL ADD THAT AS NUMBER FIVE, AND THEN NUMBER SIX WILL BE ADJOURNED.
NUMBER TWO IS THE STAR STUDY UPDATE FROM VDOT.
AND I BELIEVE MR. CAMPBELL IS ACTUALLY HERE, UM, TO, UH, BRIEF US ON THAT.
MR. CAMPBELL, I KNOW WE MET A FEW WEEKS AGO AT THE TRANSPORTATION MEETING, SO I'M VERY HAPPY THAT YOU COULD BE HERE AND SHARE, UH, WITH COUNSEL, THE INFORMATION YOU SHARE WITH COUNCILMAN INGRAM AND MYSELF AND THE OTHERS ON THE COMMITTEE AT THIS TIME.
HOLD WHILE WE GET YOUR VOLUME.
HOLD ON, WE'RE GONNA GET YOUR VOLUME.
COULD BE USED
WE'RE GLAD YOU CAN HEAR US, BUT WE CAN'T HEAR YOU.
BUT WE'RE CHECKING JUST TO MAKE SURE, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT MUTED ON OUR END.
NO CHANCE YOU COULD BE MUTED ON YOUR END, COULD YOU? NO.
I, UH, DID HE GO THROUGH? I HEAR YOU, CHARLES.
UM, IF LAUREN ARE YOU? UH, ED CARTER REACHED OUT TO ME AND ASKED IF SOMEONE COULD SEND HIM THE ZOOM, BUT HE'S TRYING TO JOIN VIRTUALLY ALSO.
UM, LET, LET'S LET MR. HUTCHINGS TAKE A STAB AT THAT.
DO YOU HAVE HIS LAUREN? HOLD UP.
AND IF YOU ALL WANTED TO SHARE A PRESENTATION OR IF YOU WANT ME TO SHARE THE PRESENTATION, YOU CAN SHARE.
DO YOU ALL SEE THAT? OKAY? YES.
ADAM, IS THE AUDIO, IS THAT OKAY NOW? YEAH, YOU'RE COMING IN A LITTLE LOW.
WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL TRY TO DO SOMETHING ON THIS END AND YOU GUYS, IT'S ALSO ON YOUR IPAD TOO.
SO, UH, YOU ALL, UH, MEMBERS OF THE TOWN COUNCIL FOR HAVING ME TODAY.
UM, I'M GONNA BE GIVING THE SAME R STUDY UPDATE, UM, AT THAT GAVE A FEW WEEKS AGO TO THE, UH, WARREN COUNTY ROYAL TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE MEETING.
UH, TONIGHT I'LL BE SHARING THE PRELIMINARY RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE CORRIDOR STUDY.
UH, THIS CORRIDOR STUDY KICKED OFF LAST, UH, LAST MAY.
ALMOST, UM, WE COLLECTED DATA IN
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MAY, EARLY JUNE.UH, WE DID EXISTING CONDITIONS ANALYSIS THAT WE PRESENTED TO THE STUDY TEAM IN SEPTEMBER.
CAME BACK IN JANUARY WITH SOME INITIAL CORRIDOR RECOMMENDATIONS TO ADDRESS THE SAFETY CONCERNS ALONG THE CORRIDOR.
UM, AND THEN WE, WE'VE BEEN MEETING IN SMALLER GROUPS WITH, UH, WARREN COUNTY, UH, N-S-B-R-C AND FRONT ROYAL ON, UM, THE REFINED RECOMMENDATIONS.
UH, SO THAT'S WHAT I'LL BE SHARING WITH YOU ALL TONIGHT.
UM, NEXT STEPS IS ALL THIS MONTH WE'LL BE GOING BACK TO FOR OUR SECOND ROUND OF PUBLIC INPUT ON A, UH, ONLINE SURVEY FORMAT TO SHARE THE RECOMMENDATIONS TO GET PUBLIC FEEDBACK ON, ON THESE IDEAS.
THEN WE'LL BE FINAL TAKING THAT INTO ACCOUNT, FINALIZING THE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THE REPORT, WHICH SHOULD WRAP UP IN MAY OR JUNE.
UM, AND THE STUDY WILL BE COMPLETED.
IN THE MEANTIME, UH, WARREN COUNTY HAS ALREADY SUBMITTED, UH, JUST IN THE PAST TWO WEEKS, THREE, UH, SMART SCALE PRE APPLICATIONS, UM, DIRECTLY FROM THE STAR STUDY RECOMMENDATIONS.
SO WARREN COUNTY WILL BE WORKING ON THOSE APPLICATIONS AS FILE APPLICATIONS THIS SUMMER FOR FUNDING CONSIDERATION INTO NEXT YEAR'S VDOT SIX YEAR IMPROVEMENT PLAN.
UM, SO JUST SOME BACKGROUND, AS I SAID, UH, STARS IS ONE OF VDO T'S PRIMARY STUDY PROGRAMS. IT STANDS FOR STRATEGICALLY TARGETED AFFORDABLE ROADWAY SOLUTIONS.
UH, IT LOOKS AT CANDIDATE CORRIDORS THAT HAVE SAFETY NEEDS FROM CRASH TRENDS OR CONGESTION ISSUES, UM, FOR THIS CORRIDOR ON 3 45 22.
PRIMARILY LOOKING AT CRASH TRENDS, CRASH HISTORY TO TRY TO CORRECT THOSE.
UH, BUT THERE ARE SOME PEAK HOUR CONGESTION ISSUES ON THE CORRIDOR THAT WE'RE ALSO LOOKING TO ADDRESS.
WE HAVE A CONSULTANT, UH, A CS, WHO IS THE ANALYSIS AND STUDY DEVELOPMENT LEAD, UH, FOR VDOT.
THEN, AS I SAID, OUR STUDY TEAM INCLUDES FRONT ROYAL, UH, WARREN COUNTY, UM, N-S-V-R-C AND THE BI HEADING FOR THE RESIDENCY.
SO OUR STUDY CORRIDOR IS 3 45 22 THROUGH, UH, EXIT SIX ON I 66.
UH, SO WE'RE BASICALLY GOING FROM THE INTERSECTION WITH HUNDRED CLUB ROAD AND CROOKED RUN BOULEVARD ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE INTERSTATE THROUGH THE INTERCHANGE TO THE SOUTH, AND THEN PROCEEDING TOWARDS FRONT ROYAL ENDING AT THE INTERSECTION WITH GAR GUARD HILL ROAD, UH, RIGHT BEFORE THE, UH, THE NORTH, THE NORTH FORK BRIDGE.
HERE'S THE SOUTHERN HALF THE CORRIDOR, AND I'M GONNA GO IN ORDER TO TALK ABOUT THE RECOMMENDATIONS TONIGHT, STARTING WITH REGARDING HILL ROAD, THE INTERSECTION AND WORKING OUR WAY TO THE NORTH.
UH, SO WE HAVE, YOU CAN SEE WE HAVE ALONG THE SOUTHERN SECTION SOUTH OF THE INTERCHANGE.
WE HAVE TWO STOP PATROL INTERSECTIONS AT DALE AND RIVERTON, AND THE COMMERCIAL FULL ACCESS ENTRANCE JUST SOUTH OF THE INTERCHANGE WHERE MCDONALD'S IS CURRENTLY UNDER RENOVATIONS.
WE HAVE ONE SIGNAL AT INTERSECTION AT THE PARK AND RIDE AT THE OTHER INTERSECTION OF RIVER ROAD.
OKAY, SO STARTING IN THE SOUTH PART OF THE STUDY AREA WITH GUARD HILL ROAD.
UM, SO BASICALLY, UH, WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE, THIS IS THE LOWEST CRASH AREA ON THE CORRIDOR FOR STUDYING, BUT THERE ARE STILL ARE HIGHER CRASHES THAN ANTICIPATED AT THIS INTERSECTION.
UM, WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH, WHEN WE DO THESE STUDIES, WE LOOK AT FORECAST.
WE PICK A DESIGN YEAR, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT FORECASTING TRAFFIC VOLUMES OUT TO 2035.
THIS IS ALREADY THE HIGHEST TRAFFIC VOLUME IN THE DISTRICT.
UM, SO ON TOP OF THAT, IT'S ALSO A GROWTH AREA.
SO WE'VE APPLIED, UH, SOME GROWTH BACK ON GROWTH RATES AND ANTICIPATED GROWTH FROM FUTURE, UH, DEVELOPMENT, LAND DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS, UM, AND WOULD REPLIED THAT TO GIVE FORECAST FOR 2035.
AND WHAT WE FIND THE BIGGEST ISSUE WITH THIS INTERSECTION IS AS AN UNSIGNED INTERSECTION IN THE 2035 FOURTH CAST, WE'RE SEEING TREMENDOUS DELAY FROM THE SIDE STREETS TRYING TO GET ONTO 3 45 22 FROM RIVERTON ROAD INTO
UM, SO AS A RESULT OF THAT, WE'RE RECOMMENDING, UH, A CONVENTIONAL SIGNAL HERE TO SIGNALIZE THIS INTERSECTION.
UM, TRADITIONAL, TRADITIONALLY, VDOT LIKES TO LOOK AT WHAT IS KNOWN AS INNOVATIVE INTERSECTIONS RATHER THAN FIRST GOING AT A CONVENTIONAL TRAFFIC SIGNAL JUST BECAUSE WE WANT TO PRESERVE THE MAIN LINE TRAFFIC ON 3 45 42.
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GIVEN THE SITE DUE STRENGTH AT THIS LOCATION WITH THE BRIDGE JUST TO THE SOUTH, UM, BASED ON OUR ANALYSIS, WE FEEL LIKE A CONVENTIONAL SIGNAL IS THE BEST ALTERNATIVE FOR THIS, UH, THIS INTERSECTION.IN ADDITION TO THE SIGNAL TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE CRASH TRENDS THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY SEEING TODAY, WE HAVE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS TO APPROVE THE APPROACH GEOMETRY ON CARDINAL ROAD TO TRY TO TEE UP THAT LEFT TURN TO GO NORTHBOUND THREE 40, UH, 5 22 TO APPROVE SITE DISTANCE AND ALSO TO SHE ANALYZE THAT EXISTING SOUTHBOUND RIGHT TURN ON ROAD.
THIS ONE IS THE MOST STRAIGHTFORWARD OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS WE'RE PUTTING FORTH, AND I'LL NOTE THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE TAR SCALE APPLICATIONS THAT WARREN COUNTY HAS SUBMITTED AT THE REHAB.
SO I, I'LL PAUSE AT EACH ONE OF THESE PRIMARY INTERSECTIONS TO SEE IF YOU ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.
ANYBODY, ANY QUESTIONS? ADAM, WHAT I I HAVE ONE QUESTION, UM, BECAUSE I ALREADY KNEW ABOUT THIS FROM ATTENDING THE OTHER MEETING, BUT WHAT'S A TIME, WHAT'S AN ETA ON WHEN WE THINK THAT WOULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN SUCCESSFUL IN RECEIVING FUNDING FOR THIS ROUTE? UM, SO THIS, FOR THE APPLICATION PURPOSES, UH, WE HAVE TO SELECT A, FOR THIS ROUND OF SCALE, WE HAVE TO SELECT A START OF DESIGN IN, UH, 2028.
SO AUGUST 27, UM, SCALE, SMALLER PROJECTS, THAT'S FINE, BECOME AVAILABLE, TYPICALLY BEEN ACCELERATED IF THEY CAN FIT IN THE PROGRAM.
SO WITH A SMALLER CONVENTIONAL SIGNAL IMPROVEMENT THAT, THAT WE HAVE HERE, I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THIS ONE WERE TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN GETTING FUNDING.
IT WOULD PROBABLY BE ACCELERATED.
UM, BUT EVEN BEST CASE SCENARIO, YOU'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT FOUR TO FIVE YEARS BEFORE IMPLEMENTATION.
THAT'S, AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING WHERE JUST POTENTIAL FOR THE EVEN MORE GROWTH THAT'S GONNA OCCUR ON THIS PORTAL BASED ON THE PLANNED LAND USE.
THAT'S WHY WE'RE RECOMMENDING THAT WE NEED TO GO AHEAD AND SET THE STAGE FOR FUTURE CONDITIONS AND GO AHEAD AND GET THIS ADDITIONAL SIGNAL.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, SO IF YOU WANNA GO ONTO THE NEXT ONE.
SO MOVING TO THE NORTH, UM, THIS IS A COMBINED RECOMMENDATION FOR OUR, SO WE HAVE AN EXISTING SIGNALED INTERSECTION AT THE PARK AND RIDE.
THEN WITH THE, WE HAVE A FULL ACCESS UNSIGNED INTERSECTION, UM, AT THE MCDONALD'S AND, UH, I THINK IT'S THE HAMPTON INN AND THE EXXON DEER, UM, JUST SOUTH OF THE INTERCHANGE.
SO THE EXISTING FULL ACCESS CROSSOVER AT MCDONALD'S IS ONE OF THE HIGHER CRASH LOCATIONS ON THE CORRIDOR.
AND THAT'S BASICALLY BECAUSE JUST IF ITS PROXIMITY TO THE INTERCHANGE OPERATIONS AND THE FACT THAT IT'S A, UH, UNSIGN FULL ACCESS INTERSECTION, UM, YOU CAN SEE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE THERE, THERE'S A LITTLE CRASH DIAGRAM.
UM, THERE'S NUMBERS, UH, INDICATE IN THE, IN THE LITTLE SYMBOLS INDICATE, UH, THREE, UM, SEVERE INJURY CRASHES, FOUR MINOR INJURY CRASHES, AND 11 PROPERTY DAMAGE ONLY CRASHES.
IN THE SIX YEARS OF CRASH DATA WE LOOKED AT RELATED TO ANGLE CRASHES DIRECTLY FROM VEHICLES COMING OUT OF THIS COMMERCIAL, UH, COMMERCIAL ENTRANCE.
SO OUR RECOMMENDATION HERE IS TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF CONFLICT POINTS, UM, TO IMPROVE SAFETY AT THIS AT THE UNCENTRALIZED INTERSECTION.
SO BY DOING THAT, WE WANNA PROPOSE WHAT'S CALLED A REDUCED CONFLICT INTERSECTION.
SO WE WOULD CHANNEL LIVE THE EXISTING CROSSOVER TO ALLOW NORTHBOUND LEFT TURN INTO THE MCDONALD'S ENTRANCE AND THEN KEEP SOUTHBOUND OR RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT.
BUT WE WOULD TAKE AWAY THE, THE LEFT OUT GOES BACK TOWARDS THE INTERSTATE.
UM, YOU WOULD THEN MODIFY THE EXISTING SIGNAL AT THE PARK AND RIDE TO PROVIDE A TURNING MOVEMENT AREA WHERE U-TURN AT THAT SIGNAL COULD BE ACCOMMODATED.
UM, IN ORDER TO DO THIS, JUST BASED ON THE, THE AMOUNT OF CONFLICTING SOUTHBOUND VOLUME ON 3 45 22 AT THE MCDONALD'S ENTRANCE, WE WOULD WE'RE PROPOSING TO SIGNALIZE THAT NORTHBOUND LEFT TURN IN.
UM, HOWEVER, IT WOULD BE A VERY EFFICIENT SIGNAL BECAUSE YOU ONLY, IT'S CALLED A TWO FACE SIGNAL WHERE YOU'RE BASICALLY DEALING WITH THE LEFT NORTHBOUND LEFT AND THEN THE SIDE WITH THE COMMERCIAL ENTRANCE MOVEMENTS.
NORTHBOUND 3 45 0.2 WOULD NOT STOP IN THIS SCENARIO.
UM, SO WE FEEL LIKE THIS WOULD, WOULD VASTLY IMPROVE THE, THE ANGLE CRASHED ADDITION THAT'S GOING ON TODAY
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AT THE, UH, AT THE UNSIGNED CROSSOVER, WHICH WILL ONLY GET WORSE AS TRAFFIC VOLUMES CONTINUE TO INCREASE ON THE CORRIDOR.ARE, ARE YOU, ARE YOU, UH, PROPOSING TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL RIGHT LANE GOING INTO THE MCDONALD'S OR, YES, THAT IS ALSO A COMPONENT.
UM, THE NEXT, THE NEXT SLIDE SHOWS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING AT THE RAMPS THAT ARE KIND OF TIED INTO THE RAMPS.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS WE'RE MAKING MODIFICATION TO THE EASTBOUND OFF RAMP TO GET RID OF THE FLEET THREE FLOW SOUTHBOUND, RIGHT? UM, RIGHT NOW THERE IS A LEAD CONDITION BETWEEN THAT THE RAMP AND THE MCDONALD'S ENTRANCE THAT'S CAUSED, THAT'S, THAT'S RESULTING IN SOME CRASH CRASHES AS WELL.
WE, SO WE WERE MAKING MODIFICATIONS OF THE RAMP AND IN DOING SO, WE WOULD MAKE A, WOULDN'T BE NEW PAVEMENT, BUT IT WOULD BE NEW LANDMARKING TO UTILIZE THE EXISTING PAVEMENT TO MAKE AN EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TURN INTO THE MCDONALD'S.
THERE'S NO OTHER, THIS IS A, HERE'S A, THIS IS A BIGGER PICTURE OF THE CONCEPT WITH THE SOUTHBOUND RAMPS, UM, SHOWN I ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT HERE.
SO IN OUR EXISTING CONDITIONS ANALYSIS, BASED ON THE CRASH HISTORY AND THIS FIELD OBSERVATIONS, UM, IN ADDITION TO, SO RIGHT HERE YOU HAVE CURRENTLY TODAY, THE RAMP HAS A FREE FLOW RIGHT TURN THAT LEADS INTO THE RIGHT TURN INTO MCDONALD.
SO THAT'S RESULTING IN THE, THE LEAVING ISSUE.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE NORTHBOUND MOVEMENT WE ALSO SAW BECAUSE OF, BECAUSE OF THE DESIRE TO GET ON THE, THE WESTBOUND LOOP RAMP TO GET ONTO 66, UM, LANE UTILIZATION FOR THIS NORTHBOUND APPROACH TO THE SOUTHBOUND RAMP.
YOU CAN SEE IN THIS PICTURE IS VERY HEAVILY CONCENTRATED ON THAT OUTSIDE NORTHBOUND LANE SO THEY CAN GET ONTO THE RAMP HERE.
UM, SO WE'RE COMING UP OUR RECOMMENDATION TO IMPROVE THIS RAMP CONDITION ONE, AS I SAID, REMOVE THAT FREE FLOW RIGHT TURN AND CREATE A DUAL RIGHT TURN THAT'S CONTROLLED BY A SIGNAL TO GO SOUTHBOUND TOWARDS FRONT ROYAL.
AND THEN HERE'S THE SEPARATE RIGHT TURN LANE FROM THE MCDONALD'S THEN NORTHBOUND WOULD BE, BECAUSE TO EXTEND THIS EXISTING TURN LANE FEEDING INTO THE WESTBOUND ROOF RAMP, WE WANNA EXTEND THAT ALL THE WAY BACK THROUGH THE SOUTHBOUND RAMP, UH, TRAFFIC SIGNAL.
SO THERE'S THREE APPROACHED LANES, SO VEHICLES CAN HAVE BETTER LANE UTILIZATION SO VEHICLES CAN GET OUT OF THE WAY THAT WANT TO GET ONTO THE INTERSTATE.
MM-HMM,
THIS IS KIND OF ALL
I'LL NOTE THAT THIS IS, THIS IS THE SECOND APPLICATION THAT WARREN COUNTY HAS SUBMITTED, UM, FOR SMART SCALE PRE-APPLICATION.
AND WE ALSO RECOMMENDED TO THE TOWN THAT, UH, BECAUSE THE MCDONALD'S AND THIS DEVELOPMENT OVER HERE IS WITHIN THE TOWN LIMITS, WHILE THE IMPROVEMENT IS NOT IN THE TOWN, WE WOULD RECOMMEND A TOWN, UH, RESOLUTION OF SUPPORT, UM, IF YOU WERE, IF YOU WERE ALL WORK TO SUPPORT THIS APPLICATION TO BE SUBMITTED AS PART OF THE WARREN COUNTY APPLICATION.
JUST BECAUSE IT IS, IT IS SERVING THE IMPROVEMENT IS SERVING, UH, TOWN PROPERTY.
YOU GOT THE QUESTIONS ON THE EASTBOUND RAMP IMPROVEMENTS.
SO, UM, THE NORTH OR FOR THE, THE WESTBOUND OFF RAMP, UM, INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, THE, THE DUAL THE DUAL RIGHT TURN LANES HERE TODAY, THIS IS THE HIGHEST CRASH FREQUENCY ALONG THE ENTIRE STUDY CORRIDOR.
UH, 33 CRASHES RELATED TO THOSE RIGHT TURN LANES SINCE 2015.
AND, UH, I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A BACKGROUND.
SO THE IDEA BEHIND THIS LANE CONFIGURATION WHEN IT WAS FIRST DEVELOPED WAS TO HAVE A SEPARATE INSIDE RIGHT TURN LANE TO SERVE VEHICLES HEADING TOWARDS
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THE TARGET SHOPPING CENTER.UH, THERE WAS CONCERN WITH THE AMOUNT OF DEVELOPMENT THAT WOULD OCCUR HERE THAT YOU HAD A SINGLE RIGHT TURN LANE, THERE COULD BE A WEAVING ISSUE RELATED TO THOSE, THOSE VEHICLE VOLUMES COMING OFF THE INTERSTATE AND WANTED TO ACCESS THE CROOKED RUN BOULEVARD TAR TARGET SHOPPING CENTER.
UM, HOWEVER, THAT'S JUST NOT HAPPENING TODAY BASED ON OUR OBSERVATIONS AND THE VOLUME.
EVERYONE, 95% OF THE TRAFFIC ON AROUND THE INTERSTATE IS USING THE OUTSIDE RIGHT TURN LANE.
UM, AND THAT'S, YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT START OFF IN THE INSIDE RIGHT TURN LANE AND THEN DECIDE, CHANGE THEIR MIND AND THAT'S WHAT'S CAUSING ALL THE CRASHES.
UM, SO WE WANNA KEEP THE, WE WANNA KEEP THE ABILITY TO GO BACK TO A MODIFIED VERSION OF THIS SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE IF AND WHEN IT IS, IS WARRANTED FROM THAT VOLUME STANDPOINT.
BUT OUR RECOMMENDATION TODAY IS TO CONSOLIDATE THESE DUAL RIGHT TURNS INTO A SINGLE RIGHT TURN THAT IS A FREE FLOW, UM, AND NOT CONTROLLED BY THE SIGNAL LIKE THE RIGHT TURNS ARE TODAY.
SO IT'S PRETTY MUCH AN EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR THE WESTBOUND OFF RAMP.
UM, WE WANNA MAKE A SIGNALED RIGHT TURN FREE FLOWING AS ONE RIGHT TURN LANE TODAY QUESTION.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE EVERYONE? JUST, IT JUST SEEMS THAT YOU STILL, YOU STILL HAVE THE JOCKING, IF YOU WILL, PROBLEM GETTING OVER TO THE TARGET LEFT HAND TURN.
WELL, WHAT WHAT WE'RE SEEING WITH THE CRASH BRIDGE IS, THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT RESULTING IN ANY CRASHES TODAY.
ALL THE CRASHES ARE THE JOCKING, IS THE JOCKING GOING ON WITHIN THE TWO RIGHT TURN LANES BEFORE YOU GET OFF THE RAMP? THEY'RE ALL OCCURRING, THEY'RE ALL OCCURRING IN THIS AREA RIGHT HERE TODAY.
BUT IF YOU, IF YOU CONTROL THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC NORTH AND SOUTH, THAT WOULD ALLOW THAT LANE TO COME ON THERE WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT HOW TO MERGE.
YOU'RE GONNA LEAVE THE LIGHT THERE TO CONTROL THE PEOPLE COMING OFF THE WESTBOUND RAMP AND MAKING A LEFT ONTO 3 45 22.
BUT YOU'RE SAYING YOU'RE STILL GONNA LET FREE FLOW TRAFFIC FLOW NORTHBOUND THERE WITHOUT SIGNALIZATION, SO THEY'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE TO CROSS THREE OR MORE LANES OF TRAFFIC IF THEY WANT TO MAKE A LEFT, CORRECT? WELL, IT'LL BE TWO LANES.
WELL THEN THE THIRD LANE IS THE ONE TO GET INTO THE SHOPPING CENTER.
YEAH, BUT THE CROSSING AND YOU HAVE TO CROSS THE TWO THIRD LANES TO GET INTO THE TURN LANES TO THE TARGET.
I DON'T SEE HOW THAT'S, HEY, I JUST NOTICED THIS.
UH, YOU, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE, UH, INDICATION THERE IS 66, YOU SAID 60 FROM 66 WESTBOUND.
BUT WOULDN'T THAT ACTUALLY BE FROM 66 EASTBOUND BECAUSE YOU'RE COMING FROM STRASSBURG OR WENT EAST M NO, YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT, WHERE AM I LOOKING IT? WRONG WAY.
THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT COMING FROM LINDEN.
THAT, YEAH, SO THAT IS WESTBOUND.
OH, THAT'S COMING OFF AT LYDON AND WALMART'S ON RIGHT? JUST SIGNAL CONTROL THE LEFT HAND LANE OR, BUT THE RIGHT HAND LANE.
TWO LANES AND THEN IT'S A FREE FOR CONDITIONS TODAY.
THIS THE, THE OUTSIDE RIGHT TURN LANE HERE, YOU CAN SEE MY CURSOR.
THEY HAVE RIGHT, RIGHT TURN ON RED.
SO LIKE I SAID, 95% OF VEHICLES ARE CURRENTLY USING THIS AND PROCEEDING, UM, HOW COULD THEY STOP ON RED? SO THIS IS ESSENTIALLY MAKING THE EXISTING CONDITION MORE EFFICIENT SO YOU'RE NOT CREATING THE REAR END AND THE SIDESWIPE CRASHES YOU'RE EXPERIENCING ON THE RAMP TODAY.
WHICH ALSO THERE'S AN ISSUE THERE WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GO RIGHT ON RED AFTER YIELDING COMING FROM 66 WESTBOUND, BUT WHEN YOU'RE COMING THROUGH THAT STOPLIGHT WHEN IT'S GREEN, THEY'RE JUST GOING ON.
AND THEN YOU HAVE TO GET OVER IN THOSE RIGHT TURN LANES TO TURN INTO THE CON RIVERTON COMMON.
IT JUST SEEMED LIKE IF YOU SIGNALED THE RIGHT ALONG WITH THE LEFT, THE NORTHBOUND TRAFFIC HAS STOPPED, THEN YOU COULD SAFELY PROCEED OUT.
I'M NOT SURE WHY WE'RE RECONFIGURING THE ROAD WHEN STOPPING THE TRAFFIC FOR A MOMENT.
MIGHT MIGHT BE THE BETTER ANSWER.
THE PROBLEM IS WITH, WITH THE PEAK VOLUME, THE OF RIGHT TURNS, UM,
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YOU, IF YOU STOP TRAFFIC WITH SIGNAL CONTROL, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE TWO LANES BASED ON THE TRAFFIC ANALYSIS.THE THREE FLOW, THE THREE FLOW SINGLE RIGHT.
HANDLES THE RAMP VOLUME JUST FINE.
AND LIKE I SAID, WE'RE NOT SEEING, THERE IS NO CRASH PATTERN INDICATING AN ISSUE WITH VEHICLES TRYING TO GET OVER TO TAKE THE LEFT AT THE TARGET TODAY.
HOW WOULD YOU SEPARATE THE TWO LANES INTO ONE LANE? JUST YOU WOULD REPAVE IT AND THEN STRIFE IT TO JUST A SINGLE LANE CAPTAIN, WHY DID YOU DON'T THAT LEAVE? YOU WOULD LEAVE THE PAVE IT WITH THERE AS IT IS TODAY.
SO, AND HOWEVER LONG IT IS IN 15 TO 20 YEARS, WHENEVER WE DO GET TO A VOLUME LEVEL WHERE THE TWO RIGHT TURN LANES ARE WARRANTED, UM, BECAUSE OF THE COMPETING MAIN LINE VOLUMES, WE COULD ALWAYS IMPLEMENT BACK TO IT.
IT'S JUST THAT WE DON'T, WE DON'T SEE AN ISSUE TODAY.
WE, BECAUSE AS A RESULT EXISTING LANE GEOMETRY IS CREATING A CRASH FRIEND ON THE RAMP.
THE THE CRASHES ARE TURNING OR ARE OCCURRING RATHER ON 3 45 22 NOT ON THE RAMP.
CORRECT? YEAH, THEY'RE OCCURRING ON THE RAMP.
THEY'RE, CAN YOU ALL SEE THIS LITTLE BOX ON DRAWING? YES.
I I WAS GONNA SAY, I THINK IT'S PROBABLY MORE THAT, THAT PEOPLE ARE LIKE, OH WAIT, HOLD ON.
WHICH WAY AM I GOING? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS ONE? OKAY, ADAM, YOU CAN MOVE ON NOW.
WE'RE UH, NOW I'M GONNA GIVE YOU A HEADS UP THAT WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE BIT OUTSIDE THE BOX WITH THE NEXT, UH, OUR FINAL BIG INTERSECTION.
I WISH I COULD PASS OUT CHOCOLATE AT THIS POINT, ADAM, BEFORE YOU START
SO WE LOOKED AT THREE DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVES TO IMPROVE THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL.
SO THIS IS BY FAR OUR HIGHEST OVERALL VOLUME ALONG THE CORRIDOR TRAFFIC VOLUME AND TO ACCOUNT ALL APPROACHES.
IT'S ALSO THE MOST NUMBER OF CRASHES.
NOT THE RAMP IS THE HIGHEST FREQUENCY, BUT THIS IS THE MOST OVERALL CRASHES.
UM, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT OPTIONS HERE TO AGAIN, REDUCE THE POTENTIAL FOR CONFLICT POINTS IN THE INTERSECTION.
THE FIRST IS THE MOST STRAIGHTFORWARD.
IT'S WHAT'S KNOWN AS A THROUGH CUT.
YOU'RE BASICALLY ELIMINATING THE ABILITY TO GO STRAIGHT FROM THE SIDE STREETS.
SO WITH THIS OPTION, YOU WOULD USE SOME APPROACH WORK TO ADJUST THE APPROACH GEOMETRY TO COUNTRY CLUB ROAD AND CROOK AND RUN.
SO YOU CAN ONLY MAKE A LEFT TURN OR A RIGHT TURN.
UM, THIS HUH, REDUCES THE NUMBER OF SIGNAL.
THE THROUGH CUT LOOKS AT THE THROUGH CUT LOOKS AT REMOVING THE THROUGH MOVEMENT ON COUNTRY CLUB AND CROOKED RUN.
SO YOU CAN'T GO THIS WAY STRAIGHT ACROSS TWO SIDE LIKE CHARLESBURG ROAD 2.0.
SO IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO GO FROM WALMART TO, TO TARGET HOW THEY GONNA GET THERE? THE BENEFIT IS IT ALLOWS YOU TO REDUCE SIGNALING, MAKE THE SIGNAL OPERATE MUCH MORE EFFICIENT.
UM, YOU'RE ADDING MORE GREEN TIME TO THE REMAINING PHASES WITH THE ONE THAT YOU REMOVED.
ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE THAT MOVEMENT, YOU, YOU HAVE TO EITHER PROVIDE AREAS WHERE YOU CAN DO U-TURN ON 3 45 22 OR THERE'S ALSO THE COUNTY HAS THIS CONCEPT OF PARALLEL KIND OF LIKE SERVICE DRIVES AND THEIR COMP PLAN ON EITHER SIDE OF 3 45 22, YOU ABLE TO COMPLETE ONE OF THOSE AND HAVE A NEW CONNECTION TO 3 45, 3 2 TO THE NORTH VEHICLES COULD UTILIZE THAT NEW ROADWAY TO MAKE THE MOVEMENT.
THE PROBLEM WITH THIS SOLUTION IS WE CANNOT FIND A GOOD SPOT ON 3 45 22 TO MAKE THE NEW TERM MOVEMENT AND BASICALLY LEAVE THAT, THAT COUNTY PLANNED PARALLEL FACILITY TO TIE IN SOMEWHERE TO THE NORTH BEFORE THIS ONE COULD REALLY BE CONSIDER FROM A SAFETY STANDPOINT, IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE THAT MOVEMENT YOU'RE TAKING AWAY, JUST MAKE ALL THE 3 45 22 A ROUNDABOUT RIGHT THERE.
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I I I'M GONNA SAY THIS, THAT'S GOING TO, I THINK THAT'S GONNA CAUSE MORE ACCIDENT.PEOPLE MAY HAVE TO TURN RIGHT OR LEFT 'CAUSE PEOPLE GO FROM COUNTRY CLUB ROAD TO CROOKED RUN ROAD PROBABLY A THOUSAND TIMES A DAY.
YOU KNOW, AT, AT, YEAH, I JUST NORMAL, COMFORTABLE.
I THINK THE CRASHES ARE BECAUSE OF, OF THE LONG TURN GOING LEFT WHEN YOU COMING OUTTA WALMART.
I LEFT THERE THE OTHER EVENING AND I THINK FOUR CARS MADE IT THROUGH.
YEAH, I JUST WANTED SINKING THE LIGHT WOULD BE A BETTER SOLUTION.
SO ADAM, DO YOU HAVE ANY DIAGRAMS TO SHOW THE CONFLICT POINTS FOR EACH ONE? UM, NOT IN THIS ONE THAT MIGHT HELP UNDERSTAND
UM, YOU CAN ALSO SEE HERE AT THE TOP, WE HAVE A NO GO.
SO YOU NOTHING TO THE INTERSECTION BASED ON VOLUMES.
WE FORECASTED OUT TOWARD DESIGN YEAR 2035 AND THE PMV TOWER.
EVERY SINGLE VEHICLE GOING THROUGH THAT INTERSECTION, THE AVERAGE FOR EVERY VEHICLE GOING THAT INTERSECTION WILL BE ALMOST A MINUTE OF DELAY.
AND WITH THIS THROUGH CUT BY REDUCING THE SIDE STREET THROUGH PHASE PHASE, YOU'RE REDUCING YOUR, YOU'RE CUTTING YOUR DELAY IN HALF, YOU'RE GOING DOWN TO 30 SECONDS PER VEHICLE.
SO YOU CAN SEE THE TREMENDOUS DELAY SAVINGS, UH, WITH THIS OPTION.
AND IT'S ABOUT, AND WE, WHEN WE ACCOMMODATE THAT RESTRICTED THROUGH MOVEMENT AND SOME OTHER MOVEMENT, AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE FINDING CHALLENGES WITH THIS OPTION, I TELL YOU, I I, I THINK WE PUT THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE HERE BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO TURN RIGHT AND GET BACK INTO CROOKED RUN UNLESS THEY GO UP AND MAKE A U-TURN IN FRONT OF ONE OF THE CAR DEALERSHIPS.
AND THAT THIS, AND JUST TO NOTE THIS IS, THIS IS THE LARGEST INTERSECTION, THIS IS THE MOST COMPLICATED INTERSECTION.
UM, WE, WE DO NOT HAVE A, WE NOT HAVE A DEFENDER RECOMMENDATION AT THIS LOCATION YET.
WARREN COUNTY HAS NOT APPLIED FOR ANYTHING THIS ROUND BECAUSE OF THAT.
UM, SO THIS IS ONE WE'RE STILL EVALUATING AND THIS IS ONE THAT WE DE GOING TO WANT TO GET PUBLIC FEEDBACK ON WITH OUR NEXT SURVEY IN TERMS OF WHAT WE'RE CONSIDERING SO FAR.
ADAM, GO AHEAD AND, AND SHARE WITH THEM THE OTHER TWO OPTIONS TOO.
OKAY, SO THE NEXT ONE IS, LET'S CALL IT A BOW TIE INTERSECTION.
UM, THIS ONE, INSTEAD OF TAKING AWAY A PAIR OF THE THROUGH MOVEMENTS AT THE INTERSECTION, WE'RE TAKING AWAY LEFT TURNS.
UM, WE HAVE WHAT'S WE HAVE, ONE OF 'EM IS A PARTIAL BOW TIE WHERE WE'RE TAKING AWAY THE LEFT TURNS FROM CROOKED RUN AND COUNTRY CLUB.
AND THEN WE HAVE WHAT'S CALLED A FULL BOW TIE WHERE YOU ARE REMOVING ALL LEFT TURNS FROM THE PRIMARY SIGNALED INTERSECTION.
SO TO ACCOMMODATE THOSE LEFT TURN MOVEMENTS THAT YOU'RE REMOVING IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE, WE UTILIZE ROUNDABOUTS.
WE ALREADY HAVE A ROUNDABOUT ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE SIGNAL.
THIS CONCEPT WOULD INTRODUCE A NEW ROUNDABOUT AT CROOKED RUN PLAZA TO HANDLE U-TURN MOVEMENTS FOR THE OTHER TO ACCOMMODATE THE OTHER LEFT TURNS.
SO HERE'S AN OVERALL DIAGRAM OF WHAT A BOW TIE IS.
SO THEN THIS IS 3 45 22 GOING UP AND DOWN ON THE, ON THE PAGE LEFT TO RIGHT IS CROOK RUN AND COUNTRY CLUB.
SO HERE YOUR ROUNDABOUTS ON YOUR SIDE STREET.
SO BASICALLY YOU WOULD USE A RIGHT TURN TO DO A U-TURN AT THE ROUNDABOUT AND THEN GO STRAIGHT THROUGH THE INTERSECTION TO ACCOMMODATE YOUR LEFT TURNOVER.
SO HOW MANY, DO YOU HAVE STATS ON HOW MANY ACCIDENTS THERE ARE IN THE CURRENT ROUNDABOUT? UH, THERE ARE A FEW PROPERTY DAMAGE ONLY CRASHES.
NO INJURY CRASHES IN THE ROUNDABOUT.
THERE'S A FATALITY IN THAT ROUNDABOUT.
THERE WAS A FATALITY IN THAT ROUNDABOUT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO.
MUST BE OUTSIDE OF OUR, THE DATASET LOOKED AT 2015 BEYOND PER, IT WAS AFTER THAT MIGHT HAVE OCCURRED BEFORE THAT THE FATALITY WAS OUT AT THE INTERSECTION TURNED LEFT IN THERE, WASN'T IT? NOT ITSELF, YES.
THERE WAS A FATALITY IN OUR, THE DATA SET WE LOOKED AT OR THE PRIMARY INTERSECTION.
HEY ADAM, JUST TO CLARIFY AGAIN, 'CAUSE I I REMEMBER THAT FROM THE MEETING, THE DATA THAT YOU'RE USING, THE CRASH DATA OR SAFETY DATA,
[00:35:01]
IT WAS FROM 2015, IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? 2015 TO 2023.I MEAN IT, I, WHEN I SHARED IT WITH THE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE MEETING A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, I INDICATED THAT JUST DOWN THE SOUTH WE HAVE THE QUADRANT ROADWAY INTERSECTION AT 55 AND 3 45 22.
THAT WAS THE FIRST QUADRANT ROADWAY IN VIRGINIA.
I THINK THE THIRD IN THE UNITED STATES BE FIRST BOW TIE IN VIRGINIA AS WELL.
SO IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S WIDELY USED NOW, BUT IT IS, UH, AN ALTERNATIVE THAT WE SEE POTENTIAL BENEFITS FROM BOTH A DELAY AND A SAFETY STANDPOINT.
YOU'RE GOING FROM A MINUTE OF DELAY DOWN TO 22 SECONDS, 22.7 SECONDS OF VEHICLE IF PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO UTILIZE IT.
AND I'M FROM HERE SO I CAN SAY THAT'S GONNA BE THE ISSUE.
SO ADAM, WHAT SOME OF THE FEEDBACK THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING HERE IN THE ROOM, WHICH WAS ACTUALLY KIND OF NOT ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT PEOPLE SAID THAT DAY AT THE TRANSPORTATION MEETING IS JUST THAT, IS THAT IF THAT BECAME THE REALITY, HANG ON, ZOOM JUST KICKED ME OUT.
I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT IT WAS SAID IT WAS GOING TO YEAH, SUBSCRIBE FULL.
MY GRANDMA WON'T BE, I DON'T LIKE RUNNING RIGHT OVER TOP OF THAT STUFF.
YEAH, THERE'S GONNA BE FOLKS THAT ARE JUST GOING TO BE LIKE, THEY'RE GONNA END UP IN WINCHESTER, WALMART OR SOMETHING, TARGET THAT'S NOT GONNA WORK.
THEY'RE LIKE, OH, YOU CAN'T GO FROM ONE ACROSS THE ROAD TO THE OTHER.
YEAH, FOLKS, THIS IS PROBABLY NOT THE AREA EITHER, RIGHT? YEAH.
PEOPLE ARE FUSSED ABOUT THE INTERSECTION NOW.
YEAH, AS SOON AS ALL THAT WAS DEVELOP.
I JUST THINK IT, I MEAN I THINK THE LIGHT ITSELF, I THINK I I DIDN'T HAVE ANY, JUST SO Y'ALL KNOW, I DIDN'T HAVE ANY DIFFERENT RESPONSE THAT YOU ALL DID THAT NIGHT WHEN HE WAS SHOWING US, TASHA AND I GO THROUGH ONLY BECAUSE I SAID PEOPLE ARE GONNA RUN US RIGHT DOWN THE TABLE.
I WAS LIKE, THEY'RE GONNA, BUT I MEAN HE, YOU KNOW, I MEAN ROUNDABOUTS ARE ONE THING THAT'S A DIFFERENT WAY TO ROUNDABOUT.
THIS IS WHAT THEY DO AND THIS IS WHERE THEIR EXPERTISE IS.
SO I GUESS, YOU KNOW, BUT, UM, I WONDER IF THEY HAVE STAS THOUGH ON THE LEARNING CURVE.
I MEAN, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO PEOPLE'S FIRST IN VIRGINIA? IT WOULD BE THE FIRST ONE.
IT'S NOT EVER, BUT, BUT KEEP IN MIND TOO, WE'RE TALKING THIS PARTICULAR ONE HE IS TALKING ABOUT, IT'S THE LAST ONE AND THEY HAVEN'T EVEN APPLIED FOR IT YET, FIVE OR ANYTHING YET.
SO IF THE GUARD HILL IS FIVE YEARS, THIS WOULD PROBABLY BE, YOU KNOW, 20.
WHO KNOWS? I MAY NOT EVEN BE HERE BY THEN.
WELL THEN THE CARS WILL DRIVE THEMSELVES.
UM, BUT UM, BUT REALLY, I MEAN IF THERE'S A, LIKE IF THEY HAVE ESTIMATED LIKE A LONG LEARNING CURVE FOR PEOPLE TO EVEN USE, LIKE HOW MANY, WHEN WE HAVE THE ROUND THINK RIVERTON, IF YOU REALLY WANNA KNOW THE TRUTH, I THINK THE WHOLE THING RIGHT THERE AT, UM, TO GO TO RIVERTON CHURCH OR GO TO STRASSBURG ROAD, LIKE YEAH.
THAT, THAT'S WHAT HE WAS SAYING IS WE WERE LIKE ONE OF THE FIRST TO HAVE THAT IN VIRGINIA AND I DON'T LIKE IT.
I MEAN I CAME SEVEN 11 THE OTHER DAY AND I, I'M LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE, I CAN'T GO OUT.
WELL ACCIDENTALLY ONE DAY I DID PEOPLE MAKE THAT LEFT TURN? YEAH.
SWITCH ONE DAY AND MADE THE LEFT PROGRAM AT RIVERTON.
OUR GRANDSON WAS IN, I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY PEOPLE WENT STRAIGHT OUT THERE AND MADE THAT LEFT TURN RIGHT THERE.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA DRIVE UP THE HILL AND MAKE A LEFT AND COME DOWN AND MAKE A RIGHT.
I ACCIDENTALLY DID IT WHEN WE FIRST STARTED GOING TO RIVERTON AND MY SON WAS, MOM, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO MAKE LAP.
I WAS LIKE, BECAUSE I'VE NEVER, I NEVER DID IT.
BUT AFTER THAT I WENT, I LEARNED, THAT'S WHAT I SAY.
WHEN DID WE HAVE THE ROUNDABOUT PUT IN? THE FIRST ONE? WHEN WAS IT, WHEN WAS HE RESELECTED THE WHOLE WHEN COLLEGE THAT ROUND.
THAT WAS WHAT, 2010 MAYBE EARLIER THAT IT'S BEEN 15, 20 YEARS AGO.
BEEN SO WE WERE STILL, WE'RE STILL STRUGGLING WITH IT.
WE'RE STILL HAVING ACCIDENTS THERE 20 YEARS LATER.
THEY'RE ALL GONNA GO TO WELL I JUST WENT TO THEM DENVER.
EVERYTHING OUT THERE IS ROUNDABOUT.
YEAH, IT DOES HELP IN CERTAIN PIECES.
BUT THAT'S NOT A REGULAR ROUNDABOUT.
HE SAID IT WOULD BE THE FIRST.
SO HE LIKE, THIS IS WHY YOU'RE DEFINITELY GONNA HAVE TO HAVE A LOT OF PUBLIC INPUT ON IT.
THAT'S WHEN LORI AND I WERE LIKE, WELL THIS IS GONNA BE A TOUGH COOKIE.
WELL I TOLD HIM THEY WOULD HAVE TO, WOULD HAVE TO COME AND SELL IT.
[00:40:01]
HAVE TO MAKE A PITCH FOR THIS.YOU KNOW THAT PUBLIC INPUT'S NOT GONNA BE GOOD.
THIS COUNCIL WON'T EVEN BE THE ONE TO HAVE TO WRITE A RESOLUTION OF SUPPORT.
BUT YOU'RE LOOKING AT 20 YEARS AND WHAT WHAT UM, WHAT IS EARMARKED FOR THE RIVERTON SIDE ACROSS FROM, UM, ACROSS FROM GUARD HILL.
THERE'S, THERE'S NO DEVELOPMENT THERE FOR WHEN CABIN RIGHT? THEY'RE NOT GONNA DEVELOP THAT.
NO, NO, THAT'S BUT IT'S SCARRED HILL.
THEY GOTTA COME OUT, BUT THERE'S NOTHING, YOU GOTTA BE ABLE TO TURN LEFT ON THE RIVERTON.
THERE'S NOTHING, THERE'S NO QUARRY.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA PUT ANYTHING DIFFERENT BECAUSE I MEAN, I WOULD'VE BUT HE WAS THE ONE TO DO.
BUT THEY COULD COME OUT THERE.
SO FOLKS, I'M NOT REALLY SURE WE'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO GETTING BACK OR NOT.
WHICH IS REALLY A SAD PLACE TO LEAVE IT AT
WELL WE WERE ALMOST, YEAH, WE WERE.
UM, BUT MY THOUGHT IS THAT WE COULD GO AHEAD AND MOVE ON TO OUR OTHER ITEMS IF FOR SOME REASON NO, HE'S THERE.
WELL THE VIDEO JUST, YOU GOTTA TURN THE VIDEO ON.
YEAH, BUT BUT HE'S NOT EVEN THERE.
ANYWAY, IF WE CAN GO AHEAD AND MOVE FORWARD WITH THE OTHER ITEMS. IF CHARLES CAN GET UH, RIGHT ADAM BACK, THEN WE CAN JOIN.
OTHERWISE WE'LL HAVE TO RESCHEDULE.
AND IT WOULD ONLY BE A FIVE MINUTE KIND OF WHAT? I GOT ADAM BACK.
YOU'RE ON THAT VICIOUS CIRCLE ON A ROUNDABOUT.
GET ON, UH, EDWIN IS BUT NOT ADAM THERE.
YOU HEAR US ADAM? YEAH, YOU HEAR ME? YEP.
YEAH, SORRY, IT WAS SOMETHING WITH OUR ZOOM THAT'S BEEN ANOTHER NICKEL IN THE MACHINE.
YEAH, I THOUGHT YOU GUYS WERE JUST, UH, SITTING.
THE NAME, THE NAMES YOU WERE CALLED
YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE MEETING BAR TO SEE WITH THE DISCUSSION, BUT ANYWAY, BACK TO WHERE YOU, UM, BACK TO THE FULL BOW TIE.
I SAY WE KNOW THIS IS OUTSIDE THE BOX IMPROVEMENTS.
UM, WE, WE UNDERSTAND IT HAS ITS CHALLENGES, BUT WE ALSO SEE A, A TREMENDOUS UPSIDE IN TERMS OF OPERATIONS AND SAFETY.
SO WE WOULD JUST LIKE WHAT I, WHAT I PRESENT TO THE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE IS LIKE, WE WOULD JUST LIKE THE, THE, UH, THE APPROVAL FROM YOU ALL TO, TO TAKE THIS, THE PUBLIC INPUT TO SEE WHAT THE PUBLIC FEEDBACK IS.
SO YOU GUYS CAN, THERE WAS ANOTHER PICTURE.
I FORGET WHICH COUNTRY CLUB ROAD CAROLYN DRIVE.
DO YOU WANNA MOVE ONE TO OH YEAH.
SO, SO THIS IS, THIS IS THE LAST, UM, PRE-APPLICATION THAT WARREN COUNTY SUBMITTED.
SO THIS IS OUR EXISTING EXISTING ROUNDABOUT AT, UH, AT CAROLINE AND AND COUNTRY CLUB ROAD.
UM, SO, UH, OVER THE PAST COUPLE YEARS, THE STATE HAS
UM, THERE'S ACTUALLY A MORATORIUM ON THE DESIGN OF FULL TWO LANE ROUNDABOUTS BASICALLY.
NOW IF YOU WANT TO CONSIDER A FULL TWO LANE ROUNDABOUT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE MEDIA INCH PANELIZATION WITHIN THE CIRCULATING LANES TO HELP REDUCE SIDESWIPES WITHIN THE ROUNDABOUT.
SO THAT IS WHAT IS OCCURRING WITH OUR EXISTING ROUNDABOUT TODAY.
IT'S HAPPENING IN THE SOUTH, UM, SOUTHWEST QUADRANT HERE.
ADAM, WHERE THE HEAD DO YOU MIND, ADAM, DO YOU MIND SHARING YOUR SCREEN? BECAUSE I CAN SEE IT, BUT, BUT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING AND, AND JUST SO THAT OTHERS IN THE ROOM CAN SEE IT IF THEY DON'T HAVE IT ON THERE.
MOST THE PEOPLE IN PAROLE JUST DRIVE ON THE CONCRETE.
SO THIS IS WHERE, UM, LIKE I SAID, THERE ARE, THERE ARE A HIGH NUMBER OF PROPERTY DAMAGE ONLY CRASHES OCCURRING IN THE ROUNDABOUT.
AND 80% OF THEM ARE OCCURRING IN THIS QUADRANT RIGHT HERE BECAUSE OF THE HEAVY MOVEMENT FROM PEOPLE COMING FROM 3 45 22 GOING INTO THE WALMART SHOPPING CENTER.
[00:45:01]
AND YOU'RE, YOU'RE SEEING A LOT OF SIDE SLIGHT CRASHES IN THIS SOUTHWEST QUADRANT OF THE, OF THE ROUNDABOUT.SO OUR RECOMMENDATION IS WHAT IS NOW RECOMMENDED AT A STATEWIDE LEVEL FOR TWO LANE ROUNDABOUTS.
AND THAT'S TO PROVIDE A LITTLE SECTION OF RAISED MEDIAN.
AND YOU BASICALLY ARE CHANNELIZING THE CIRCULATING LANES AND THAT PORTION OF THE ROUNDABOUT.
SO THE OUTSIDE LANE BECOMES A TRUE RIGHT TURN LANE ONLY INTO THE SHOPPING CENTER.
THE INSIDE LANE BECOMES A SECOND RIGHT TURN INTO THE SHOPPING CENTER AND YOUR THROUGH AND LEFT TURN LANE.
SO WE, WE SEE THIS AS AN EASY FIX.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, UM, ED AND THE RESIDENCY CAN GO OUT AND PROBABLY IMPLEMENT IMMEDIATELY FOR AT A, AT A LOWER COST SHORT TERM LEVEL AS USING LIKE FLEX POST DELINEATORS TO HELP CHANNEL OR, OR TO HELP SEPARATE THE TRAFFIC HERE.
UM, THIS APPLICATION WOULD BE MORE OF THE LONG TERM SOLUTION WITH, UH, ACTUAL RAISED CONCRETE CHANNELIZATION ISLANDS.
AND THEN THERE'S ALSO SOME, UH, ADJUSTMENTS TO COUNTRY CLUB ROAD TO THE EAST OF THE ROUNDABOUT WHERE IT'S JUST NOT NECESSARY TO HAVE FOUR LANES THERE.
WE ARE, WE'RE RECOMMENDING REPLACING THE FOUR LANES WITH TWO THROUGH LANES AND THEN USING THAT OUT THOSE OUTSIDE LANES TO, TO PROVIDE SOME, SOME, UH, SOME WARRANTED RIGHT TURN MOVEMENTS INTO THE SHOPPING CENTER.
UM, THERE'S ALSO, WE, WE WANNA CLOSE THE GAPS IN THE EXISTING PEDESTRIAN INFRASTRUCTURE SIDE, THE WALK INFRASTRUCTURE AROUND THE ROUNDABOUT AND UP UPGRADED THE PEDESTRIAN CROSSINGS AT THE ROUNDABOUT AS WELL.
ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT? NO, I THINK IT'S GREAT.
DO YOU WANNA GO TO THE NEXT SCREEN? THERE WE GO.
SO, UM, THIS IS JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA.
THESE ARE JUST, THIS IS JUST THE HIGH LEVEL PLANNING LEVEL COST ESTIMATES SO FAR FOR OUR VARIOUS INTERSECTIONS.
SO, UH, DALE, THE SIGNAL, WE'RE LOOKING AT THREE TO 5 MILLION.
THE R ARCHIVE BY ITSELF OR THE, THE RCI BY ITSELF, FIVE TO 10 MILLION.
UH, THE RAMP IMPROVEMENTS ARE THREE TO $5 MILLION EACH.
UM, SO THESE ARE ALL, THESE ALL HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED AS PART OF THE SMART SCALE FUNDING APPLICATION.
AND THEN ALSO FOR THE COUNTRY CLUB ROAD DOWN HERE IS THE CHEAPEST AT ONE TO 2 MILLION TO CORRECT THAT.
UM, YOU CAN ALSO SEE WE HAVE, WE HAVE SOME MORE WORK TO DO.
WE WANNA GET PUBLIC INPUT IN ON THE CROOKED RUN COUNTRY CLUB ROAD INTERSECTION.
UM, AND YOU CAN ALSO SEE THAT JUST THE HIGHER LEVEL PRICE TAG, BECAUSE IT IS THE LARGEST INTERSECTION THERE WOULD BE CONSIDERABLE IMPACTS.
UM, JUST FROM ANY OF THESE OPTIONS IS ANOTHER THING.
BUT WE WANNA GET PUBLIC INPUT ON BEFORE WE KIND OF FINALIZE A RECOMMENDATION.
UM, SO HERE'S, HERE'S OUR REMAINING MILESTONES LEFT IN THE STUDY.
UH, WARREN COUNTY HAS ALREADY SUBMITTED THE PRE-APPLICATION THAT WERE DUE APRIL 1ST.
UH, WE'LL BE DOING OUR SECOND ROUND OF PUBLIC OUTREACH WITH AN ONLINE SURVEY AT THE END OF THIS MONTH.
UM, REVIEWING THAT PUBLIC FEEDBACK, SELECTING OUR, OUR, OUR FINAL RECOMMENDED ALTERNATIVES.
UM, HAVING OUR FOURTH, FOURTH AND FINAL STUDY STUDY TEAM WORKING GROUP MEETING AT THE, UH, IN MAY.
AND THEN COMPLETE THE STUDY, PROVIDE THE FINAL DELIVERABLES AND TIME TO SET UP THE FINAL SMART SCALE APPLICATION DEADLINE, UH, AUGUST 1ST.
YEAH, I THINK THAT IS ALL I HAVE.
I'M HAPPY TO HAVE ANSWER ANY MORE QUESTIONS YOU ALL MIGHT HAVE.
AND, UM, I ALSO, I'M MORE THAN HAPPY ONCE WE GO THROUGH THE PUBLIC OUTREACH, SECOND ROUND OF PUBLIC OUTREACH TO COME BACK AND PRESENT TO YOU ALL TO GIVE AGAIN, TO GIVE KIND OF A SUMMARY OF THAT THIS PUBLIC INPUT RECEIVED AND UH, OUR FINAL RECOMMENDATIONS BASED OFF THAT PUBLIC INPUT.
ADAM, YOU MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT, UH, RESOLUTION OF SUPPORT.
WHICH, WHICH ONE OF THOSE DO WE, IS THAT, WHEN IS THAT GONNA BE DUE OR NEEDED? SO THE RESOLUTIONS OF SUPPORT, AND THIS WOULD BE, SINCE THIS IS ALL VDOT ROADWAY, IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY OPTIONAL BECAUSE THIS IMPROVEMENT AT THE, THE MCDONALD'S, SINCE THIS IS ALL THE TOWN'S PROPERTY, IT WOULD, WE THINK IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO, IF YOU ALL WERE IN AGREEMENT WITH THIS RECOMMENDATION TO PROVIDE AN OPTIONAL RESOLUTION OF SUPPORT TO GO IN WITH THE FULL WARREN COUNTY APPLICATION.
THOSE AREN'T DUE UNTIL THE FINAL APPLICATION DEADLINE OF AUGUST 1ST.
SO SOMETIME BETWEEN NOW AND AUGUST 1ST, YOU WOULD NEED, UH, RESOLUTIONS OF SUPPORT FOR GUARD HILL ROAD AND AT THE MCDONALD'S ONE, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
HILL ROAD ONE WOULD BE GOOD AS WELL.
'CAUSE I THINK, I MEAN THE, THE TOWN HAS PROBABLY OFF GUARD HILL ROAD, RIGHT? YES.
SO THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE BOTH JUST TO SUPPORT, JUST TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE YOU ALL HAVE, HAVE BEEN PART OF THE STUDY TEAM AND WHILE IT'S NOT, YOU'RE NOT MAKING THE APPLICATION SINCE IT'S ON A VR ROADWAY, SINCE YOU ALL HAVE BEEN PART OF THE STUDY TEAM AND HAVE
[00:50:01]
GONE THROUGH THE STUDY PROCESS, IT WOULD BE BE BENEFICIAL TO SHOW, UH, YOU KNOW, CROSS JURISDICTIONAL COLLABORATION AND SUPPORT.SO WE, WE'VE MADE NOTE OF THAT.
SO MY QUESTION IS, UM, HOW DO YOU SOLICIT, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR PROCESS FOR SOLICITING PUBLIC FEEDBACK.
LIKE HOW MUCH, HOW WIDE DO YOU GO AND, AND WHAT DO YOU DO EXACTLY TO GET THAT FEEDBACK? SO WE HAD, WE HAD SO MUCH SUCCESS, UM, UH, FOLLOWING THE PANDEMIC WITH MOVING TO AN ONLINE SURVEY FORMAT.
AND THAT'S REALLY, THAT'S, WE'LL STILL DO IN PERSON MEETINGS WHEN, WHEN WARRANTED AND, UM, USUALLY AT THE, THE END OF THE STUDY.
BUT WE ALWAYS ARE NOW FOCUSING EARLY ON, ESPECIALLY WITH THE ONLINE, UM, THE ONLINE SURVEYS, UH, THE FIRST SURVEY WE DID WITH THE EXISTING CONDITIONS TO CONFIRM THE USERS OF THE CORRIDOR ORDERS THAT THEY'RE SEEING THE SAME ISSUES AND TRENDS THAT WE WERE SEEING THROUGH THE DATA.
I THINK THE FIRST, THE FIRST SURVEY WE DID LAST FALL HAD 800 OR 900 SURVEY RESPONSES.
IT IS, IT'S JUST A TREMENDOUS, UM, OUTREACH TO PUBLIC IN TERMS OF, AND COMPARED TO THE TRADITIONAL IN-PERSON MEETINGS.
UH, SO WE'LL DO AN ONLINE SURVEY AGAIN AND WE WILL, WE DO FACEBOOK ADVERTISING, FACEBOOK POSTING, BUT THEN WE'LL ALSO ASK THE TOWN AND THE COUNTY AND N-S-B-R-C TO ADVERTISE IT ON THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS AND THEIR WEBSITES JUST TO DRIVE UP VOLUME.
YEAH, I MEAN, AND THAT, I THINK THAT SOUNDS GOOD EXCEPT FOR THE OLDER FOLKS OR FOLKS WHO DON'T, YOU KNOW, WHO AREN'T USING THE INTERNET ON A REGULAR BASIS, UM, WHO MAY, AND I'LL, I'LL NOTE THAT WE ALSO, IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE, WE HOST, WE HOST THE SURVEY AND WE'LL HAVE THE PRESENTATION WITH ALL OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS ON OUR VDOT STUDY WEBSITE.
SO THERE IS A, A, A STATIC WEBSITE THAT PEOPLE COULD REVIEW STATIC IMAGES ON THERE AS WELL.
UM, AND, AND CERTAINLY WE HAVE THE CAPABILITY AT THE END OF THIS STUDY.
ONCE WE, ONCE WE GO THROUGH THE SECOND ROUND OF SURVEY, WE, WE CERTAINLY CAN WORK WITH THE TOWN AND THE COUNTY TO HOST AN IN-PERSON PUBLIC MEETING AS WELL TO GET INPUT THE TRADITIONAL WAY.
WE'RE HAPPY TO DO THAT AS WELL.
ALRIGHT, IF THERE'S NO OTHER QUESTIONS FROM COUNSEL, THANK YOU GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU ADAM FOR PRESENTING AND, AND EDWIN FOR JOINING US.
WE APPRECIATE THE, THE INFORMATION.
AND PLEASE, UH, PROVIDE US ANY FEEDBACK AS YOU ALL, UH, KIND OF DIGEST THIS MORE AND THINK ABOUT IT MORE AFTER THE PRESENTATION.
UM, YEAH, THERE, SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT ANY RESOLUTION OF SUPPORT.
WE'LL, WE'LL, UM, HAVE A, WE'LL ADD THAT TO A WORK SESSION AGENDA.
MAYBE THE FUTURE MAY FOR APPROVAL AT THE END OF THAT.
SO, UM, OUR NEXT ITEM IS, AND WE'RE AHEAD OF SCHEDULE.
SO SEVEN DASH UH, THREE A REPEAL AND RESERVATION OF SECTION NINE DASH 3 0 3 SPOT LIGHT ABATEMENT FROM TOWN CODE AND MITSUBISHI IS ACTUALLY GONNA PRESENT TO US ON THAT.
ALRIGHT, SO THIS CHANGE TO TOWN CODE IS KIND OF A FOLLOW UP TO OUR PRESENTATION FROM LAST MONTH.
SO LAST MONTH STAFF PRESENTED THE MECHANISMS TO DEAL WITH DERELICT STRUCTURES.
ONE OF THOSE MECHANISMS WAS, UM, CHAPTER NINE OF TOWN CODE.
AND THAT SECTION IN THERE, 3 0 3 WAS THE ADOPTION OF STATE CODE.
IT WAS A SPOT, UH, IT WAS SPOT LIGHT ABATEMENT, UM, ORDINANCE, BUT SOMEHOW WE ADOPTED IT WITHOUT ADOPTING, ITS LIKE THE ENTIRETY OF ITS INTENT.
SO OUR RECOMMENDATION THEN WAS TO REPEAL IT AND RESERVE IT IN TOWN CODE.
UM, STAFF HAS GONE AHEAD AND REDLINED THAT PORTION OF THE ORDINANCE.
WE ARE ALSO MAKING THE RECOMMENDATION THAT IT COME OUT OF, IT'S REFERENCED TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE IN A FEW CHAPTERS AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND, AND SUMMIT WILL WORK ON TAKING THOSE REFERENCES OUT AS WE, UM, WORK ON THE NEW ORDINANCE.
UM, BUT THIS TONIGHT IS JUST STRIKING IT FROM CHAPTER NINE OF 10 CODE.
WE NOT HAVE A LARGE SCALE AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNIT PROJECT COMING BEFORE US.
THAT'S IN FRONT OF PC RIGHT NOW.
NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
EVEN THOUGH IT APPEARS AS THOUGH THEY'RE, THEY'RE SAYING OH, THAT'S WHAT I READ.
[00:55:01]
YEAH.THEY'RE SAYING THAT IT'S, UM, FOR YOUNG PROFESSIONALS OR AT LEAST THAT'S, BUT, BUT THAT'S ONLY WHAT WE'RE HERE.
THAT'S BEFORE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THAT'S TOTALLY, WELL I THINK IT'S JUST RELEVANT FOR COUNCIL TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION ANYTIME YOU TAKE THE TOWN CODE OF WHAT'S COMING DOWN THE PIKE AFTER YOU'VE CHANGED THE TOWN CODE.
BUT I THINK WHEN THEY MEAN LARGE SCALE, I'M THINKING THAT THEY'RE TALKING LIKE AN ENTIRE BLOCK OR ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOODS AND OR LIKE CREATING AFFORDABLE SUBSIDIZED HOUSING.
WELL, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE OTHER ISSUES THAT I CONTINUED TO HAVE ON THE COUNCIL'S, THE DEFINITION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING STATE CODE DOES PROVIDE A DEFINITION OF WHAT'S AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IT DOES DEAL WITH THE MEDIAN INCOME OF THE CITIZENS OF THE TOWN.
SO IT WOULD NEED TO BE AT A LEVEL THAT THEY CAN AFFORD, SO DOES WHEN THEY, UH, FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
SO IT HAS TO BE AT THE MEDIAN LEVEL OF THE COMMUNITY OR BELOW THE MEDIAN.
ONE TIME SINCE I'VE READ THAT DEFINITION, I KNOW THAT IT'S DEFINED AS YES, I GOTCHA.
BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THE RURAL AGRICULTURAL USDA, THE MEDIAN 80% MEDIAN HOUSEHOLD INCOME IS OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND FOR WARREN COUNTY FOR A FAMILY OF ONE TO FOUR.
SO IT'S PRETTY HIGH CONSIDERING WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND YOUNG PROFESSIONALS.
SO, SO WHEN, UM, TOWN STAFF ACTUALLY PRESENTED TO US, UM, I GUESS IT WAS MARCH 18, NO MARCH BEFORE THAT ONE.
IT WAS BEFORE THAT MARCH 10TH.
UM, THAT'S WHERE IT WAS BROUGHT UP.
THAT, THAT, THAT WE, THAT WE HAD TO MAKE SOME CHANGES.
OUR RECOMMENDATION IS THAT YOU REPEAL IT AND RESERVE IT FOR FUTURE.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE CLEAR FOR THE PEOPLE'S, UM, KNOWLEDGES.
THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO ADDRESS ABSOLUTELY NOT DELIC STRUCTURE STRUCTURES.
I KNOW, BUT FOR SOMEBODY THAT'S JUST LOST SOMEBODY THAT'S JUST TUNING IN TONIGHT AND OR READ THIS ON OUR AGENDA, YOU KNOW, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THEY UNDERSTAND, FEEL FREE TO GO BACK AND, AND WATCH THE MARCH 10TH MEETING WHERE, UM, YOU ALL SHARED THAT, UM, THOMAS, LIKE WORDS, NOTHING I'LL CALL.
BUT ANYWAY, YOU KNOW THAT THERE WE WILL STILL BE ADDRESSING DERELICT STRUCTURES, BUT THIS PARTICULAR SECTION IN THE TOWN CODE, UM, I'M SORRY, IS BLIND, RIGHT? THEY'RE CALLING IT BLIND.
I STILL AM GOING TO SAY WE HAD THAT PRESENTATION.
A LOT OF INFORMATION CAME OUT OF IT.
WE'RE NOT GIVING UP ON PROPERTY MAINTENANCE.
HOWEVER, WE DID SAY THIS COULD STAY IN THE TOWN CODE FOR A LARGE SCALE, WHICH BY DEFINITION, GEORGE INFORMED US COUNTED FOR THE MOTELS.
THE MOTELS WERE PART OF THE BLIGHT ABATEMENT ON A LARGE SCALE AT THE LAST MEETING ON MARCH 10TH.
AND WE DISCUSSED THAT WE COULD ONLY USE IT FOR MOTELS OR LARGE SCALE AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
SO BY DEFINITION, WHAT IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS? BECAUSE IN MY OPINION, CERTAIN PROPOSED PROJECTS THAT AREN'T BEFORE COUNCIL YET, BUT THEY'RE CLEARLY OUT THERE BEING ADVERTISED OR AN ENTIRE BLOCK THAT'S AN ENTIRE BLOCK.
I'M, I'M TRYING TO, IT GOES FROM ONE ROAD TO THE NEXT ROAD OR ROUND TO THE NEXT ROAD.
SO WHAT'S THE DEFINITION OF THAT THEN? IT DEFINITELY POPS THE QUESTIONS MORE.
SO I WOULD AGREE THAT IT'S, I, BEFORE WE CHANGE ANY TOWN CODE EVER, I ALWAYS HAVE CONCERNS AND RESERVATIONS, IF YOU WILL,
WELL, AND I THINK TOO, WE, WE ALWAYS ASK OURSELVES, UM, WE SHOULD ALWAYS ASK OURSELVES WHAT IS THE END RESULT OF THIS? SO IF WE REMOVE THIS, HOW DOES THAT IMPACT ANYTHING? I GUESS? YES.
UM, SO IT IT'S SIMPLY NOT A TOOL.
IF THE OBJECTIVE IS TO REMOVE STRUCTURES THAT ARE DILAPIDATED, DERELICT, AND SO ON, UM, UNDER THE MAINTENANCE CODE OR EVEN BEYOND THE MAINTENANCE CODE, JUST ON A NUISANCE USING A NUISANCE APPROACH, WE HAVE THE
[01:00:01]
TOOLS.IN FACT, THIS SECTION, WHICH IS SPOT LIGHT ABATEMENT, IS PULLED OUT OF A MUCH LARGER CHAPTER IN THE HOUSING TITLE OF STATE LAW.
UM, AND IF YOU, IF YOU DRILL DOWN INTO THE STATE STATUTES, THERE'S A DEFAULT PROVISION THAT SAYS BASICALLY YOU DON'T NEED TO USE ANY OF THIS.
SO WE DON'T NEED, WHICH WE ALREADY HAVE, WHICH WAS PART OF THE PRESENTATION.
SO, SO DON'T, WE DON'T NEED TO ADD ANYTHING.
WE JUST, THE STAFF'S NOT GOING TO USE THIS TO ADDRESS THESE STRUCTURES.
AND WE'RE GONNA USE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE FOR CURRENTLY OCCUPIED STRUCTURES.
SO, SO LEMME JUST ADD, SO THE THRUST OF TITLE OF THE HOUSING TITLE IN STATE LAW, OR AT LEAST THIS CHAPTER, UH, IS, UH, IS TO PROVIDE THE CONSTITUTIONAL BASIS TO ACQUIRE, PURCHASE OR ACQUIRE BY EMINENT DOMAIN PROPERTIES AND REDEVELOP.
BUT THAT REQUIRES THE TOWN IN, IN THE CASE OF THE TOWN TO, TO BUY OR RIGHT.
THAT OBTAIN THROUGH CONDEMNATION AS OPPOSED TO WHAT THE FOCUS WAS OF THE PRIOR PRESENTATION, WHICH IS YES, TO POTENTIALLY SPEND SOME MONEY TO REMOVE THE DILAPIDATED STRUCTURE, BUT THEN YOU HAVE A LIEN ON THE PROPERTY, YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY ACQUIRING THE PROPERTY.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF I'M ANSWERING IT ENTIRELY, BUT TH THIS TO ME JUST CREATES CONFUSION.
UH, AGAIN, IT'S A TOOL THAT WE, WE DON'T NEED, WE ALREADY HAVE THE TOOLS, THE PRIOR THING, THE PRIOR POINT THAT YOU JUST MADE UP ABOUT HYPOTHETICALLY A SITUATION WHERE THERE'S A DERELICT PROPERTY AND, AND A AND A LOCALITY WOULD COME IN AND BASICALLY TAKE OVER THE PROPERTY OR REDEVELOP IT, LIKE YOU WERE SAYING, RIGHT.
TYPICALLY PROPERTY PROPERTIES.
IN GENERAL, THAT IS SIMILAR TO WHAT, UM, ASHLYN DID RIGHT.
WHEN THEY PRESENTED US THAT PRESENTATION.
WELL, THE COUNCIL AT YOU WERE HERE AT THE TIME.
IN SOME CASES, THE BLIGHTED PROPERTIES, THEY REQUIRED THEM TO, TO, UH, REPAIR OR FIX UP, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD.
BUT SOME OF THE PROPERTIES WHO REFUSED TO DO IT, THEN THEY ACTUALLY CAME IN AND TOOK OVER THOSE PROPERTIES.
SO, BUT YOU'RE SAYING WE DON'T, IT'S NOT NECESSARY FOR US TO HAVE IN OUR TOWN, ASHLYNN USED THE DRUG BLIGHT.
RIGHT? THAT, THAT ADDS A LITTLE CONFUSION.
YEAH, THAT'S COMPLETELY SEPARATE.
IT USES THE WORD BLIGHT, BUT, BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT'S GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOUSING TITLE.
WELL, I'D ARGUE THOUGH, WE HAVE DRUG BLIGHT IN FRONT ROYAL.
THAT'S SO THAT'S COVERED EVEN REMOVING THE TOWN.
SO YOU'RE SAYING YOU HAVE, YOU'RE ASSURING COUNSEL THAT THEY HAVE ALL THE TOOLS IN THEIR TOOLBOX, NOT JUST FOR, TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS DERELICT STRUCTURES, BLIGHT, WHATEVER IT IS.
UM, TAKE, WE STAFF IS MOVING ON THE RECOMMENDATION OF COUNSEL THAT WE DO NOT NEED CHAPTER 9, 3 0 3.
WELL LET ME ASK YOU THIS THOUGH.
UM, WHEN IT TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THIS VERY END OF THE SUMMARY RIGHT HERE, IT TALKS ABOUT CREATING AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS.
ARE WE GONNA HAVE TO DEFINE WHAT CREATE AFFORDABLE AFFORDING? ARE WE GONNA HAVE TO ADD SOMETHING TO OUR ORDINANCE THAT DEFINES WHAT AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS ARE? I, WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE AVOIDING THAT ISSUE FOR NOW.
AND I THINK THAT IT'S AN ISSUE THAT'S GONNA BE COMING BEFORE THE TOWN.
WELL, WITHIN THE VERY NEAR COMING YEARS.
WELL, THAT'S THE IDEA OF RESERVING.
SO THAT'S WHY I FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO DEFINE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
WE NEED TO DEFINE LARGE SCALE OR A BLOCK.
'CAUSE ARGUABLY THOSE THINGS ARE PRESENT IN THE COMMUNITY AND COMING FORWARD RIGHT NOW.
SO ANOTHER ARGUMENT IS THIS WAS PIECEMEAL THE WAY THIS WAS ADDED.
AND SO IF THE POLICY IN THE FUTURE IS TO PURSUE THAT AFFORDABLE HOUSING REDEVELOPMENT, THEN WHAT NEEDS TO COME INTO TOWN CODE IS PROBABLY MUCH MORE THAN WHAT'S HERE.
SO WE WOULD KEEP THIS AND ADD ON TO IT.
[01:05:01]
THAT'S WHAT I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF DOING BECAUSE WHEN WE GOT THE PRESENTATION, I WASN'T IN FAVOR OF REMOVING THIS.I THINK I WAS ONE OF THE ONLY ONES.
BUT I AM NOT OPPOSED TO THE IDEA OF HAVING THE ABILITY TO, WE TALKED ABOUT THE LIENS ON OR THE JUDGMENTS ON THE PROPERTIES IF IT CAME TO, TO THAT.
BUT IT'S NO SURPRISE TO ANYONE WATCHING OR THAT READS THIS OR THAT'S HERE TONIGHT THAT, YOU KNOW, MY ARGUMENT ALL ALONG WAS THE PEOPLE THAT WERE PLAYING FROGGER ACROSS THE FOUR LANES OF SHENANDOAH AVENUE BEFORE SHEETS WAS BUILT FROM SOME OF THE DRUG LIGHTED HOTELS AND MOTELS THERE.
AND UM, UNFORTUNATELY WITH SOME OF THE OWNERSHIP, I DON'T SEE A BETTER WAY THAN TO BULLDOZE THEM.
AND JUST TO DEFINE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THERE'S SUCH A MISCONCEPTION BEHIND THAT BECAUSE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN OUR AREA, WE'RE OFF OF THE 66TH CORRIDOR, NOT THE 81 CORRIDOR WHEN IT COMES TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
SO THE INCOME LIMITS HERE ARE ASTRONOMICALLY HIGHER THAN FREDERICK COUNTY, OVER $25,000 A YEAR, MORE HERE THAN FREDERICK COUNTY.
FREDERICK COUNTY HAS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE PROPERTY TAXES THAN US WHEN IT COMES TO REAL ESTATE TAXES.
SO I'M JUST TELLING YOU GUYS FROM THINGS THAT AREN'T IN FRONT OF THIS COUNCIL RIGHT NOW, BUT WILL BE IN FRONT OF THIS COUNCIL, WHICH ARE RELEVANT AND PERTINENT.
WE HAVE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE DEFINED TO TAKE ACTION ON THIS.
AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND LARGE SCALE SEEM TO BE THE TWO BIGGEST FACTORS IN THAT.
ANY OTHER, ANY OTHER INPUT DISCUSSION? I'LL JUST SAY THAT, THAT WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING, IT'S A DIFFICULT SUBJECT MATTER BECAUSE THE MARKET A LOT OF TIMES DEFINES WHATEVER THAT WILL BE.
UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S, YOU CAN GET INTO, THAT'S WHY IT'S SO DIFFICULT TO, TO DEFINE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IF SOMEONE WANTS TO COME IN AND PAY HIGH DOLLARS FOR PROPERTY AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANY INCENTIVES TO CREATE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, THEN YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
BUT IT IS DEFINED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
THERE ARE AGENCIES WHO DEFINE THAT FOR US.
AND FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC USED THOSE GUIDELINES.
AND FRONT ROYALS IS MUCH HIGHER THAN ANY SURROUNDING LOCALITY.
WE'RE HIGHER THAN CLARK COUNTY.
WE'RE HIGHER THAN FREDERICK COUNTY.
WE'RE HIGHER THAN SHENANDOAH COUNTY.
I MEAN, WE'RE IN TUNE WITH FALL HERE.
IT, IT TYPICALLY WORKS REAL WELL IN LARGER METROPOLITAN AREAS.
UH, BUT I'M NOT SAYING IT CAN'T BE DONE.
I'M JUST SAYING THAT, UH, TYPICALLY TO QUALIFY FOR THOSE PROGRAMS THAT YOU, YOU'RE PROBABLY ALLUDING TO, UH, TYPICALLY THAT STUFF SHOWS UP IN FAIRFAX COUNTY THAT I'M ALLUDING TO.
I BELIEVE YOU ARE ALLUDING, USDA'S HOUSING PROGRAM STARTS AT A FIVE 80 CREDIT SCORE, AND YOU CAN HAVE 10,000 A YEAR TO 108,000 A YEAR TO QUALIFY FOR ONE TO FOUR PEOPLE.
AND THAT'S AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNDER USDA'S RURAL DEVELOPMENT.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT ARGUING ANY POINTS.
I'M SAYING THAT, THAT IN FAIRFAX COUNTY, THEY, THEY HAVE A MORE SUCCESSFUL RATE OF, OF GETTING AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
BUT THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO DEFINE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
AND I HAVE THE FACTS PRETTY GOOD.
SO THERE'S NO FACTS THAT I'M QUESTIONING.
I'M QUESTIONING WHAT IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BECAUSE YOU AND I WOULD PROBABLY DEFINE THAT DIFFERENTLY.
UNFORTUNATELY, IF YOU LOOK, I JUST HAD THIS CONVERSATION IN MY DAY JOB TODAY, DESPITE FRONT ROYAL BEING CONSIDERED AN, UM, A RESIDENTIAL ASPECT AS ONE OF THE HIGHEST, OUT OF SURROUNDING FOUR OR FIVE COUNTIES, WE CONTINUE TO HAVE THE LOWEST PAID WORKERS WHEN IT COMES TO FIRE AND RESCUE.
RESCUE IS HUGE RIGHT NOW SINCE THE FIRES, IT JUST AFFECTED US.
OUR POLICE, SHERIFF'S OFFICERS, FIRE AND RESCUE TEACHERS AND HEALTHCARE PERSONNEL MAKE LESS THAN FREDERICK COUNTY, CLARK COUNTY, AND SHENANDOAH COUNTY, DESPITE THE FACT THAT WE HAVE HIGHER, UM, MARKET VALUE FOR OUR PROPERTIES.
SO THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME BALANCE THERE AND A DEFINED AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
LIKE WE NEED TO DEFINE THAT AS A GOVERNING BODY.
LIKE WHAT IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING? 'CAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE THE AVERAGE FAMILY IN WARREN COUNTY WORKING TWO TO FOUR JOBS WITH TWO PEOPLE, AND THEY CAN'T QUALIFY FOR A MORTGAGE, THEIR DEFINITION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS GONNA BE DIFFERENT THAN OURS.
AND SO THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SECTION EIGHT AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING AS WELL.
AND WHERE IS THE LINE THERE? WE NEED TO DEFINE THAT OR ELSE THERE'S NEVER A VISION.
IT'S JUST GONNA BE A CIRCUITOUS CONVERSATION THAT WE'VE BEEN HAVING FOR YEARS.
[01:10:01]
I'M WILLING TO LISTEN.I MEAN, I, WE ALL, I'M NOT ARGUING, BUT I JUST, THAT'S ALL I WAS TRYING, I WAS TRYING TO SAY, I'M WILLING TO GET MORE INPUT FROM PEOPLE.
MY QUESTION WOULD BE WHERE DO WE, WHERE DO WE NEED TO DEFINE THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS AND THE, AND BEFORE US IS WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD REPEAL THAT PART OF TOWN CODE.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE QUESTION BEFORE US.
I'D BE WILLING TO REWRITE IT, NOT REPEAL IT, AS GEORGE HAD MENTIONED, WOULD BE ANOTHER OPTION.
WHAT, WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE COUNSEL, WHAT WOULD, WHAT IF I CAN RESPOND TO THAT? SURE.
SO TITLE 36 OF STATE LAW, WHICH IS WHERE THIS IS PULLED FROM, AND REALLY ENVISIONS THE CREATION OF A HOUSING AUTHORITY.
AND THAT, THAT DRIVES THE, THE ACQUISITION, UH, OF PROPERTIES.
IS THIS A CONVERSATION THAT COULD BE ADDED TO THE NEXT AGENDA WITH THE JOINT MEETING WITH PLANNING COMMISSION? 'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY PLANNING COMMISSION'S VERY RELEVANT AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE SPECIAL USE PERMITS AND THE ZONING COMING BEFORE US FOR HOUSING.
I, I CERTAINLY DON'T, WE, WE'VE GOT A TENTATIVE MEETING SCHEDULED WITH THEM APRIL 29TH.
WE CAN CERTAINLY BRING IT BEFORE THEM.
I THINK IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN WE PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA IS TO, IF WE WANT TO DO THAT, IS TO GET OUR, GET OUR QUESTIONS OUT THERE OF THINGS THAT WE WANNA ASK.
OR WHAT IS THE BEST, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE BEST WAY FORWARD? AND MAYBE THE BEST WAY FORWARD IS TO REPEAL THIS, BUT TO HAVE SOMETHING ELSE IN OUR CODE.
OR MAYBE IF I'M THE ONLY ONE WHO WISHES THAT, LIKE IT'S COUNCIL'S DESIRE.
SO IF YOU GUYS DON'T WANT THIS ON ANOTHER AGENDA, FEEL FREE TO SAY NO.
YOU JUST WANNA GO AHEAD AND REPEAL AND RESERVE IT.
AND MY ONLY QUESTION WOULD BE, IS THERE ANYTHING IS IS THERE ANY HARM TO DELAY? YES.
THIS REALLY GOT BORN OUT OF THE LAST WORK SESSION WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT DELIC STRUCTURES.
I HONESTLY, I PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA.
I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS GOING TO BE CON UH, ANYTHING.
I JUST, I REALLY FELT LIKE, I THOUGHT THE CONSENSUS WAS WE NEEDED TO REMOVE THIS FROM THIS CHAPTER.
BUT, UM, STAFF CAN TAKE THIS BACK AND WE CAN BRING IT BACK IN A FUTURE WORK SESSION.
I WAS JUST TRYING TO GET A FEW THINGS TAKEN CARE OF JUST TO ADDRESS BASICS.
THE, THE TITLE OF THIS SECTION IS SPOT BLIGHT ABATEMENT.
WE WERE TRYING TO GET RID OF THE WORD BLIGHT.
IT'S NOT, IT'S, IT REALLY ISN'T ABOUT AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
THAT THAT'S THE SUMMARY OF THIS AGENDA ITEM REFERENCES AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WHICH IS MY ISSUE WITH THAT.
I WAS, WHICH IS A RELEVANT TOPIC COMING FORWARD IN THE TOWN OF FORT ROYAL.
AND HISTORICALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THINGS THAT THE COUNCILS BEFORE US HAVE DONE, THEY DO SOMETHING AND THEN THAT SUDDENLY BECOMES ON THE HORIZON.
AND THE CART WAS BEFORE THE HORSE.
SO I WOULD HATE TO REMOVE OR REPEAL, OR RESERVE, WHATEVER TERM WE'RE GONNA USE A PORTION OF THE TOWN CODE JUST BECAUSE IT WAS POORLY WRITTEN AT THAT TIME.
INSTEAD OF CLEANING IT UP AND DOING WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO IT.
IF AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS ON THE HORIZON, WHICH I'VE HEARD ALL YEAR THAT IT IS SO THAT, THAT I'M ONE PERSON HERE.
I, IT, IT'S JUST MY OBSERVATION.
I KNOW IT'S NOT IN THE AGENDA ITEM, IT'S IN THE SUMMARY THAT THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IT ADDRESSES.
SO FOR ME, IT'S LIKE ALMOST LIKE A FEDERAL LEGISLATION BILL WHERE SOMETHING ELSE IS SLID IN THE BACK THAT NOBODY REALIZED.
WELL, I'LL DEFER TO LAUREN ON THAT.
THIS IS JUST A HOUSING PART OF IT.
JUST TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHY WE WERE RECOMMENDING JUST CLEANING THIS UP.
WE JUST WERE ASKING TO REPEAL IT, RESERVE IT, CLEAN UP THE ORDINANCE A LITTLE BIT.
I CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH HER WITHOUT IT.
I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH REPEALING IT IF WE'RE GONNA REWRITE IT.
THAT, I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING.
THAT'S, THAT'S ALL I THOUGHT FOR SOME REASON I THOUGHT THERE WAS A REFERENCE TO CODE 66 OR SO.
THE, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CHICKENS, THAT'LL BE, OH, OKAY.
WE'RE NOT TO THE CHICKENS YET, BRUCE.
CAN WE AVOID THAT IN AND OUT? SO I WILL SAY THAT, UM, THAT IT SOUNDS LIKE WE PROBABLY BETTER ADD THIS TO SOMETHING, BUT, BUT AGAIN, I WILL SAY IN ADDING IT TO ANOTHER AGENDA, WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT IT IS WE'RE ADDING.
LIKE ARE WE ADDING, ARE WE ADDING THAT? ARE WE ADDING THAT? COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO, AND THIS WILL BE BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN WE ADD IT.
I WAS GONNA SAY, I READ DOWN THE THREE QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE.
[01:15:01]
SO SEND THOUGHTS, SEND THOUGHTS TO MYSELF, JOE, LAUREN, OR ANY OF US REALLY.AND, UM, AND MAYBE JUST LIKE YOU SAID, MAYBE THE NEXT TOPIC OF CONVERSATION IS WHAT DO WE NEED TO REWRITE IT WITH TO MAKE IT, UM, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE COVERED ALL OF OUR BASES FOR OUR FUTURE? MAYBE PERHAPS I'M THE ONLY COUNCIL MEMBER THAT GOT MULTIPLE CALLS THIS WEEK THAT APPARENTLY THERE'S MISINFORMATION ON SOCIAL MEDIA.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE I DON'T HAVE IT.
THAT THE TOWN COUNCIL IS ABOUT TO VOTE FOR HOUSING TO RECEIVE FUNDING FOR THE IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE, SOME OF THE SURROUNDING COUNTIES ARE DOING IT.
IT JUST, DURING THE POND, I GOT FIVE CALLS ABOUT, I GOT FIVE CALLS ABOUT THIS WEEK, AND IT FALLS UNDER AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
SO MAYBE THEY NEED TO DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH THEIR WIFE.
THAT'S ANOTHER WELL, YEAH, I DON'T HAVE, YEAH, ACTUALLY, I, I HAD, BEFORE EVEN THIS WEEK, I HAD GOTTEN, I HAD GOTTEN SOME EMAILS.
I HAD A REGISTER QUITE A WHILE AGO ASKING ME TO MAKE SURE THAT FRONT ROYAL WAS NOT GONNA, THAT'S, I HAD A REGISTERED NURSE TELL ME.
ALRIGHT, SO WE'LL MOVE THIS, WE'LL MOVE THIS ONE ON, WE'LL, WE'LL MOVE THIS ONE ON AND WE WILL GO TO ITEM FOUR B, WHICH IS THE ALLEY VACATION REQUESTED TO 25 EAST SEVENTH STREET, 6 31 KILER STREET, THREE B THREE B.
IT WAS THREE BI WAS GONNA SAY, ARE WE GONNA SKIP THAT? OH, OKAY.
THE LIAISON COMMITTEE, UM, MEETING ITEMS FOR APRIL 18TH.
SO, UM, YOU CAN, YOU GUYS CAN SEE THAT CURRENTLY THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, THE TOP TWO TOPICS THAT THEY WANTED TO ADD WAS THE DISCUSSION ON THE PROCESS OF FLOW AND DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE COUNTY AND TOWN WHEN HANDLING COMPLAINTS.
NOT REALLY SURE WHAT THAT'S ABOUT, BUT I'M SURE THEY'RE GONNA LET, I MEAN, THAT'S WHY WE'RE DISCUSSING IT, RIGHT? OR, OR, UM, I'M OKAY WITH LEAVING IT ON THE, SO JUST A REMINDER TO YOU GUYS, WHEN WE HAVE A LIAISON MEETING, THEY, WE BRING SUGGESTIONS.
THEY BRING SUGGESTIONS, BUT THEN IN THE END WE DETERMINE THE AGENDA.
SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT THAT ONE'S ABOUT.
BUT DO WE EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY, WHAT KIND OF COMPLAINTS THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT? UM, I'M ASSUMING, I'M ASSUMING THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST LIKE I WAS ASSUMING THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, UM, COMPLAINTS.
LIKE WHEN PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING WRONG, I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, WE CAN CERTAINLY, I HAVE, WE NEED CLARIFICATION ON THAT.
ARE WE SUPPOSED TO LIKE, MAKE UN MAKE UNIFIED STATEMENTS BETWEEN TWO SEPARATE GOVERNING BODIES? I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE, I MEAN IF MAYBE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE, IT COULD BE ABOUT THE HOUSING SINCE WE JUST HAD THAT WHOLE DISCUSS.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? SEE WITH ME, IT CONCERNS ME THAT WE HAVE SEPARATE VISITORS CENTERS, SEPARATE TOURISM, SEPARATE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AND SEPARATE GOVERNING BODIES AND SEPARATE TAX RATES.
AND THERE'S AN EXPECTATION TO HAVE COMPLAINTS FLOW TOGETHER.
I MEAN, THERE ARE DECISIONS THAT THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MAKE THAT SOME OF US AS COUNSEL MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH, OR VICE VERSA.
WE MAY AGREE WITH MAYBE, MAYBE THEY JUST WANNA KNOW HOW WE HANDLE OUR COMPLAINTS.
AND THEY, MAYBE THAT'S WHAT IT IS.
YOU GOTTA HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF A COMPLAINT.
NO, I MEAN, ANY KIND OF COMPLAINTS.
WELL, WE NEED TO NARROW HOW WE HANDLE, GOT PLENTY OF COMPLAINTS DELIVERED.
MAYOR, COULD YOU REACH OUT TO YOUR COUNTERPART AND FIND OUT WHAT THIS IS AND LET US KNOW? I CAN.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT YOU ARE ASKING IS BEFORE WE AGREE TO ADD THE DISCUSSION ON THE PROCESS OF FLOW AND DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHEN HANDLING COMPLAINTS BEFORE WE AGREED TO ADD THAT TO OUR LIAISON AGENDA, WE WANNA KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING? YEAH, BECAUSE WE WOULD NEED TO ENLIST, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY SOME RESEARCH OF STAFF.
WELL, NORMALLY WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE AGENDA, NORMALLY WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE AGENDA, TINA CAN, UH, IS THAT THEY MAKE A SUGGESTION.
BUT EACH GROUP, LOOK, WHOEVER MADE THE SUGGESTION HAS TO THEN PROVIDE A SUMMARY, CORRECT? YES.
SO THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE A SUMMARY AND THEN THEY SEND THAT TO ME AND WE LOOK AT THE SUMMARY.
AND AS YOU KNOW, THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES BEFORE WHERE I'VE PULLED THINGS OFF THE AGENDA AND SAID, THE TOWN'S NOT PREPARED TO DISCUSS THAT, BUT THEY HAVE TO SEND THE SUMMARY SO THAT IF THERE'S INFORMATION WE HAVE TO GATHER, WE HAVE TIME TO GATHER IT.
I'LL ASK ABOUT WHAT THAT IS, WHAT, WHAT IT IS THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THE OTHER THING, WHAT DO THEY WANNA KNOW ABOUT MCKAY SPRINGS? I THINK, I THINK THEY NEED TO GIVE HER, UH, GIVE US A BETTER EXPLANATION.
MCKAY SPRINGS HAS BEEN ON EVERY LIAISON AGENDA SINCE I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL FOR, WHAT,
[01:20:01]
THREE YEARS AND IT WAS BEFORE MY TIME.WELL, I DON'T THINK IT'S WHAT THEY WANNA KNOW ABOUT THE WATER.
I THINK IT'S, THEY WANNA KNOW WHAT THEY WANNA KNOW ABOUT, UM, THE FACT THAT THE TOWN OWNS PIECES, THE COUNTY OWNS PIECES.
EVERY LIAISON MEETING WET ADDRESS THAT.
YEAH, BUT I DON'T THINK WE MADE A FINAL WET, WE HAVEN'T GOT A FINAL RESPONSE FROM THE COUNTY ON.
SO THAT NEEDS TO STAY ON THERE.
UM, THE TOWN STAFF SUGGESTED THAT WE TALK ABOUT THE CRASH ROAD BOUNDARY LINE ADJUSTMENT.
ALTHOUGH HONESTLY, IT SEEMED LIKE, IT SEEMED LIKE AT OUR LAST CONVERSATION THAT I THOUGHT AT THE LAST MEETING WHEN WE DISCUSSED THAT, WAIT, MAYBE I'M WRONG.
WE HAVEN'T, UH, WE HAVE NOT HAD A DISCUSSION WITH THE COUNTY ON ANY TYPE OF BOUNDARY LINE ADJUSTMENT.
SO, BUT DID I DON'T THINK COUNCIL DECIDED THAT THEY DIDN'T EVEN WANT A BOUNDARY LINE? WELL, I AM.
I I AM REFERENCING BOUNDARY LINE ADJUSTMENT ARE THE LAND THAT THE TOWN OWNS THAT WOULD INCORPORATE WEST REISER AND EAST REISER INTO THE CORPORATE LIMITS.
SO ALL I'M IS REQUESTING IS THE LAND THAT THE TOWN OWNS.
I THOUGHT IT WAS THE OTHER STUFF AND I WAS LIKE, I THINK WE ALREADY MADE ANSWERS.
WHAT ELSE DOES COUNCIL, WHAT FUNDING FOR THE SIDEWALK? THAT WAS GONNA BE AN ISSUE.
LIKE FOR OUR PLAN, NOT BRINGING IT IN.
THAT'S WHY WE HAD SAID WE WERE GONNA GO AHEAD AND HAVE THAT DISCUSSION TO GET IT IN SINCE WE HAVE A PLAN AND A VISION.
UM, WHAT ELSE WOULD, WHAT ELSE WOULD COUNCIL MEMBERS LIKE TO ADD AS AN OPPORTUNITY? YES.
GIVEN THE FACT THAT EDA HAS DROPPED THE SUIT AGAINST THE TOWN, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US NOW THAT THEY'VE REQUESTED BEFORE THEY'VE DROPPED THE SUIT, SIT DOWN AND TALK TO THEM BECAUSE NOT ONLY HAS COUNCIL CHANGED, BUT THE BOARD HAS CHANGED.
AND MY THOUGHT IS THEY ARE LIKE MANY OTHER PEOPLE ASKING QUESTIONS, TRYING TO HAVE RESOLUTION.
WHO OWES WHOM AND CAN WE PUT THAT CHAPTER BEHIND US? AND, AND, AND AGAIN, BEING THE NEWEST PERSON ON COUNCIL, ALL I REMEMBER IS YOU GUYS SAYING TO ME, BJ HAS ACCOUNTABILITY FROM, I'M NOT REALLY SURE THIS IS A CONVERSATION IN PUBLIC, THIS PART BECAUSE, WELL, NO, I'M, NO, NO, NO, I'M NOT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT.
WELL, STOP ME BEFORE I, GEORGE WAS TRYING, WELL, I'M, I'M, BECAUSE OUR LEGAL COUNSEL FOR ONE THING, WE, WE'VE BEEN TOLD THAT THEY, THAT THE PLAN IS TO NON SUIT IT.
HOWEVER, WE DON'T HAVE ANY, IT HASN'T BEEN FILED YET WITH THE COURTS.
WE DON'T HAVE YET OR ENTERED ORDERS, OR AT LEAST I HAVEN'T SEEN AND NEVER.
AND I, AND THEN AFTER THAT, THERE COULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS, BUT, UM, BUT I THINK THAT, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF WE DID WANNA TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY DURING THE LIAISON MEETING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT OUR ED A'S DOING OR WHAT THEIR ED A'S DOING.
OR IS THAT MORE OF A CONVERSATION FOR WHEN YOU, UM, WHEN YOU PRESENT TO THE COUNTY, AGAIN, AT A BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING? I, I GAVE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS A SMALL UPDATE ON FRIDA DURING MY GENERAL PRESENTATION TO THEM AND TOMORROW.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE WANT TO, UM, ADD TO IT? WHAT ABOUT OUR, WELL, THEY PROBABLY HAVE SEEN IT, BUT OUR WATER SITUATION, RIGHT AFTER WE HAD OUR PRESENTATION, UM, ACTUALLY I THINK WE DID, I DID HAVE, WE HAVE NOT SHARED THAT WITH THEM.
AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD ITEM TO DISCUSS WITH THEM AS OUR WATER SUPPLY PLAN.
THAT WAS, UH, ME AND LORI HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT IN THAT POINT.
YEAH, I TOTALLY PROUD WE, WE DISCUSSED THAT THAT WOULD ACTUALLY BE A GOOD THING TO SHARE WITH THE BOARD SUPERVISORS, THE CHA, THEIR PRE WATER SUPPLY PLAN.
BUT WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT IS, WOULD OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO BE A SCALED DOWN VERSION, BUT, BUT ENOUGH OF THE HIGHLIGHTS AND STUFF FOR THEM TO FEEL LIKE THEY GOT THE SAME INFORMATION.
'CAUSE I'M NOT SURE THAT ALL OF THEM, IF THEY DIDN'T WATCH THE MEETING RIGHT.
UM, WHICH I HAD ACTUALLY MADE THAT SUGGESTION TO SOME OF THEM THAT THEY OUGHT TO, THAT THEY OUGHT TO WATCH IT TO SEE THE INFORMATION WE GOT.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT IS A TOPIC THAT TOWN AND COUNTY NEEDS TO, UH, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE ONLY SEEN TWO OR ONE RECURRING ITEM.
IT'S USUALLY AN AGENDA OF EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN ON IT FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS.
SO MAYBE WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS, BUT I DO FEEL LIKE A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN ON THE AGENDAS, WE, WE, WE, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
[01:25:01]
WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TO MOVE FORWARD.BUT IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT TAX DATES? WE WILL TALK ABOUT HOW WE CHANGING OUR DATES? WELL, WE ALREADY DID IT.
AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY AT OUR LAST, AT, AT OUR JANUARY ONE IS WHERE WE BASICALLY, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S YEAH, THAT'S FINE.
WE ALREADY, WE ALREADY APPROVED IT, SO I DON'T, UM, ANYTHING.
SO THIS HAS TO GO TO THEIR CLERK BY WEDNESDAY.
SO IF YOU WALK OUTTA HERE TONIGHT AND THERE'S SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK OF THAT YOU THINK MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE, YOU CAN ALWAYS SEND IT TO US AS A WHOLE AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS SOMETHING WE MIGHT WANNA ADD.
I WON'T ADD IT UNLESS, YOU KNOW, UNLESS COUNSEL HAS A CONSENSUS TO ADD IT.
UNLESS THERE'S SOMETHING I ABSOLUTELY THINK NEEDED TO BE THERE IS, UM, SOME LITTLE UP WARREN.
I'M NOT SURE, UM, WHAT ALL IS HAPPENING, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S UPROAR ABOUT, UH, USAGE OF THE PARK AND VANDALISM AND ISSUES.
UM, BUT I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA TELL YOU, I'M TOTALLY AWARE OF ALL OF IT JUST BECAUSE I, YEAH.
SO I KNOW, BUT THAT REALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOWN, SO I'M NOT WELL, NO.
DID YOU KNOW THAT THEY THINK OF THE TOWN.
THEY THINK THAT'S ANOTHER THING OF, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN COME ON TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL
AND THAT, AND THAT IS VERY FRUSTRATING TO ME WHEN I SEE FEEDBACK ON SOCIAL MEDIA THAT PEOPLE DON'T REALLY, AND SADLY NOT EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, I JUST DID A PRESENTATION TO SECOND GRADERS AND EXPLAINED HOW THERE'S THE TOWN, THERE'S THE COUNTY, AND HOW THE TOWN HAS CERTAIN THINGS THAT THEY'RE IN CHARGE OF, AND THE COUNTY HAS CERTAIN THINGS, AND MAYBE IT NEEDS, MAYBE I NEED TO DO THAT FOR SOME ADULTS.
UM, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE UNDER, THEY, THEY, THEY JUST HAVE FALSE INFORMATION.
THEY THINK THAT BECAUSE THE PARK IS IN TOWN, RIGHT.
THAT SOMEHOW THE TOWN AND THE TOWN COUNCIL HAS SOME CONTROL OVER THE PARKS AND, AND WE JUST DON'T.
BUT I WOULD LIKE TO, BUT I WOULD, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD HURT THOUGH FOR US TO, I MEAN, AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE INFORMATION WHEN PEOPLE ASK ME ABOUT IT, EVEN IF IT'S NOT MY, YOU KNOW, I, I MEAN, I KNOW ENOUGH TO SAY IT'S NOT IN OUR PURVIEW, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW LIKE, WHAT THEY'RE EXPERIENCING.
UM, FOR US, IT'S NOT FOR ME TO GIVE JUDGMENT OR, OR ADVISEMENT AS MUCH AS IT WAS.
I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.
IT'S ALSO FRUSTRATING AS A TAXPAYER, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN AND COUNTY, THAT IF WE GO TO UTILIZE THE PARK OR THE SKATE PARK, YOU CAN'T USE THE BATHROOM.
I MEAN, IT MAKES IT NOT VERY USER FRIENDLY KIDS.
IT TOOK ONE OUT DOWN AT, UM, EASTERN PARK.
THE, IT TOOK THE WHOLE BUILDING OUT.
AND MAYBE THIS IS NOT THE VENUE FOR, BUT I JUST WANT, I WANT, I JUST WANTED TO HEAR, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY, WHAT THEIR PERSPECTIVE WAS AND WHAT THEY WERE, WHAT THEIR PLANS WERE AROUND IT.
WELL, SINCE IT WAS BROUGHT UP, UH, SO THE DOOR FOR, UH, THE MAINTENANCE OF, ON THE FACILITIES, UH, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, THE BASKETBALL COURT DOWN AT B CROSBY STADIUM, SIGNIFICANT CRACKS IN THE, IN THE, UH, ON THE COURT.
I JUST, I I I KNOW, I KNOW I'M NOT, I'M ONLY, I'M, I'M JUST GONNA TELL Y'ALL, WE IN MY TIME WHEN I WAS ON COUNCIL YEAH.
AND THE ONLY THING THAT I WOULD SAY AND TAKE THIS FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH IS, IS THAT THE TOWN GAVE UP THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PARKS THROUGH THE VOLUNTARY SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT.
WE ARE ALL COUNTY CITIZENS, SO THEREFORE WE ALL HAVE AN, WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS.
I JUST DON'T KNOW THAT IT IS THE COUNCIL'S ROLE TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS.
AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE IF WE START ASKING OTHER PEOPLE HOW THEY'RE DOING THEIR JOB, THEY COULD EASILY SAY, WELL, IF YOU WANT 'EM BACK
YOU KNOW, IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE.
I, I DON'T MR. SAUNA, WOULD YOU UN DO YOU UNDERS WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME ON THAT? THAT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A, WE DON'T HAVE A A RIGHT TO, TO ASK FOR INFORMATION, BUT WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO ASK FOR INFORMATION AS COUNTY CITIZENS.
UM, AND SO, AND I'M NOT TRYING TO PASS THE BUCK.
I'M JUST TRYING TO SAY THAT, THAT I, YOU KNOW, DO THEY, THEY MAY NOT FEEL THAT THEY HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO REPORT TO THE TOWN COUNCIL ABOUT THINGS ARE GOING ON.
WE COULD CERTAINLY ASK, WOULD YOU LIKE FOR US, OR WOULD YOU
[01:30:01]
MIND GIVING US, UM, UH, AN UPDATE ON WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE BATHROOM AND THE VANDALISM SITUATION AS IT WERE, AS IT AS IT'S HAPPENING WITHIN THE TOWN, BUT SINCE IT'S ON COUNTY PROPERTY? I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW.DOES THE, THEY MAY NOT WANNA DO THAT.
IF THEY, IF THEY, IF THEY'VE GOT RIGHT.
SOMETHING GOING ON WITH THE INVESTIGATION, THEY MAY NOT WANNA DO THAT.
I'M JUST ASKING THE PARKS ARE INSIDE THE TOWN, BUT IF VANDALISM HAPPENS IN THE PARKS, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING FRONT ROW PD IS CALLED TO INVESTIGATE, IS IT? WE HAVE HANDLE CALLS THERE AND TAKING REPORTS AND MADE CHARGES AS SEEM APPROPRIATE.
UM, MR. SONIC, ALL I WAS GONNA ADD IS AS IT CAME UP WITH THE YOUTH CENTER, I HAVE COUNT COUNSEL'S INTEREST IS IN MAKING CERTAIN THAT THE CORRIDOR AGREEMENT IS COMPLIED WITH.
WHILE IT IS IN OUR PLACE, THE VOLUNTARY SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT OF US GIVING UP THOSE RIGHTS DID COME WITH SOME OF THE YOUTH CENTER THINGS THAT YEAH.
ACTUALLY WASN'T JUST THE YOUTH CENTER.
NO, IT WAS THE OTHER PARK AS WELL.
SO WE CAN ADD THIS TO THE AGENDA, BUT WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT IT IS.
I MEAN, JUST LIKE WE ARE ASKING, WHAT IN THE WORLD DO THEY MEAN BY WHEN HANDLING COMPLAINTS? WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT IT IS YOU WANT ON THIS AGENDA SO THAT MS. PRESLEY HAS THE RIGHT INFORMATION.
I JUST NEED A PARAGRAPH SUMMARY.
WHAT DO YOU WANT?
COULD IT BE AN ONGOING DISCUSSION OF THAT? NO, THAT ITEM WAS WHEN THEY WANTED, WAS THAT RESOLVED? SHE, WELL, I'LL JUST TELL YOU WHAT THAT ITEM WAS ABOUT.
IS THEY WANTED THE TOWN TO, UM, GIFT, UH, UTILITIES TO THOSE, TO, UM, NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE LANDLORD ENFORCEMENT, NOT, NOT THE SHARE OF UTILITIES.
WELL, I'M JUST TELLING YOU THAT THAT'S WHAT THE CONVERSATION WAS.
IS THAT, COULD WE, UM, COULD WE, UH, COULD WE CUT THEM A BREAK, GIVE THEM A DIFFERENT TYPE OF RATE ON, UH, MAYOR, I DISAGREE WITH YOU BECAUSE THE PARAGRAPH, WHAT WAS THE DATE OF THAT ONE? 1 18, 1 18 TOWN AND COUNTY TENANT AND LANDLORD ENFORCEMENT.
YOU'RE REFERRING TO TOWN COMMITMENT TO SHARE UTILITY COSTS WITH COMMUNITY PARTNERS.
I'M JUST SUGGESTING THAT MAYBE THE LANDLORD TENANT LANDLORD ENFORCEMENT, THERE'S TWO PARAGRAPHS HERE.
COULD THAT BE THE ONGOING OR HOW WE HANDLE PROBLEM? I DON'T KNOW.
NOW I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THAT WAS BECAUSE, UM, THE COUNTY, THAT WAS WHEN THE COUNTY, LAUREN, YOU WERE HERE, THAT WAS ABOUT, UM, THEIR FRUSTRATIONS THAT HAD BEEN BROUGHT TO THE COUNTY ABOUT THE WAY IN WHICH SOME OF OUR LANDLORDS WERE TAKING CARE OF THEIR PROPERTY IN TOWN AND THAT THEY WANTED, UM, THEY WANTED US TO BE ADDRESSED.
THEY WANTED US TO HAVE A LANDLORD TENANT, UM, UH, SOME TEETH ADDED TO IT SO THAT THEY COULD, SO THAT TENANTS COULD GO IN AND MAKE THE LANDLORDS AND FORCE, FORCE THE LANDLORDS TO TAKE BETTER CARE OF THEIR PROPERTY OR THINGS LIKE THAT.
THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY ASKING FOR LIKE A RENTAL INSPECTION PROGRAM.
SO IT IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, BUT ARE YOU, ARE YOU ASKING THAT THAT BE ADDED? I'M JUST SUGGESTING THAT THAT MAY BE WHEN ABOUT PROBLEMS. SO THERE'S SOME PROBLEMS I'M JUST SUGGESTING.
YEAH, I'M, I'M THINKING THAT WHAT PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR IS AN UPDATE ON SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT, THAT THE COUNTY IS HAVING WITH THEIR PARKS AND THEIR FACILITIES.
AND MAYBE IF THE COUNTY COULD SHARE WITH US SOME OF THE PROBLEMS AND HOW THEY'RE ADDRESSING THEM, I GUESS, IS THAT, I MEAN, I'M, I'M, I'M SURVIVING WHAT YOU ALL WANT.
I'M NOT IN FAVOR, THAT'S AGENDA ITEM, BUT AGAIN, I'M ONE OF SIX, SO I KNOW WE'VE HEARD FROM TWO OTHERS.
I MEAN, IT'S, I THINK LIKE AS A PRIVATE CITIZEN, I WOULD REACH OUT TO ABSOLUTELY, YOU KNOW, MY SUPERVISORS AND ASK THAT.
I JUST YOU OUT TO, I FEEL LIKE IT REC I FEEL LIKE IT ALSO JUST MIGHT PUT US A STEP BACK BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE DESPITE THE FACT THAT IT'S PURE INTENTIONED, IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S KIND OF LIKE POINTING A FINGER.
LIKE THERE'S CRACKS IN THE BASKETBALL.
WE HEARD WE WERE BEING BLAME BLAMED FOR THE VANDALISM.
SO I FEEL LIKE IT MIGHT JUST SET THE TONE OF THE MEETING.
[01:35:01]
CERTAINLY WOULDN'T SUGGEST WE DO IT.I WOULD RATHER JUST HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE SUPERVISORS INDIVIDUALLY MYSELF.
I THINK THAT'S THE BEST WAY FORWARD.
SO I THINK WE WILL, WE WON'T HAVE THAT ON, UH, ON THE LIAISON AGENDA.
UM, BUT AGAIN, I WOULD ENCOURAGE ANY COUNCIL MEMBER TO REACH OUT TO, TO THE COUNTY THEMSELVES TO ASK QUESTIONS.
AND HOPEFULLY SOMEBODY THAT'S LISTENING TONIGHT IS HEARING THAT WHEN THEY WANNA BLAME THE TOWN FOR THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON WITH BATHROOM ISSUES, UM, OR FEES OR WHATEVER, THAT IT DOESN'T, THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE TOWN.
UH, ANYTHING ELSE WE WANNA ADD? MR. WALTZ, IS THERE SOMETHING YOU CAN THINK OF? NO, THE ONLY THING IS WE NEED A COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE.
SO WE HAVE IN THE LAST YEAR, LET ME JUST START OFF WITH WHO'S NOT HAD A CHANCE TO, TO SIT WITH ME AT THE LIAISON MEETING AS THE COUNCIL MEMBER REPRESENTATIVE.
SO COUNCILMAN WOOD, I THINK IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE AVAILABLE THAT NIGHT, UM, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A, A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM TO BE A PART OF THIS.
NOW JUST REMEMBER, ANYBODY CAN COME, ANY COUNCIL MEMBER CAN COME, UH, SIT IN THE AUDIENCE, LISTEN, BUT CAN'T PARTICIPATE.
I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT MY RULES.
SO, UM, NOT, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY IF YOU'RE CALLED ON OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU CAN, BUT THEY DON'T REALLY, UM, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
TINA, IS THIS ONE AT THE GOVERNMENT CENTER? YES.
IT'S, SO IT WON'T BE RECORDED.
THE LAST TIME, MAYBE WHEN YOU CONTACT THEM ON WEDNESDAY THAT YOU COULD REMIND THEM THAT AT THE LAST LIAISON MEETING, THEY AGREED THAT THEY WOULD RECORD IT BECAUSE WE, WE REQUESTED THAT ALL LIAISON MEETINGS BE RECORDED AND WE ARE ABLE TO RECORD 'EM AT THE TOWN.
SO HOPEFULLY, SO THE DATE OF THAT IS THURSDAY.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS GONNA BE ONE WEEK.
YOU GUYS ARE AWARE THAT EVERY YEAR VML HAS COMMITTEES, UM, AND UM, THEY, I KNOW JULY IS USUALLY WHEN ALL THE COMMITTEES WILL MEET, SO WE NEED TO, UM, MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE ALL OF OUR MEMBERS OF OUR COMMITTEES.
UM, I THINK WE ALREADY, I THOUGHT WE DISCUSSED THIS IN JANUARY, BUT NO, THOSE WERE THE, THOSE WERE THE TOWN ONES.
SO YOU GUYS ALL HAVE SEEN THE AGENDA.
I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE, IS THERE ANYBODY, SO GLEN, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SERVE ON A COMMITTEE, WE'D LIKE TO GET YOU ON TO ONE OF THESE.
UM, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE, JOSH, THAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY ON ONE OF THESE COMMITTEES EITHER, WHICH YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO.
IS THERE ANYBODY THAT WOULD LIKE TO NO LONGER BE ON THE ONE THAT THEY WERE ON LAST YEAR? HERE'S A CHANCE TO, HERE'S A CHANCE FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE A DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITY.
OR MAYBE YOU MIGHT WANT TO SHARE WHY YOU WANT TO STAY ON THAT.
WE, ANY THOUGHTS? WE GOTTA I'M SORRY.
I KNEW THAT THAT'S WHY I WAS OFFERING.
UM, YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH FOR ALL SIX COUNCIL MEMBERS.
THEY CAN NOMINATE UP TO TWO PEOPLE PER POLICY COMMITTEE.
AND ONE OF THOSE HAS TO BE AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.
NOW THE TRUTH IS IT COULD BE TWO ELECTED OFFICIALS AND A STAFF MEMBER DOESN'T HAVE TO BE ON IT.
I THINK WHAT WE DID IN THE PAST WAS WE HAD A STAFF MEMBER BECAUSE ON CERTAIN ONES OF THEM, SO, UM, BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, THE HUMAN DEVELOPMENT AND EDUCATION ONLY CURRENTLY HAS ONE.
I WAS ON THAT ONE FOR A WHILE ON MY TIME ON COUNCIL.
SO, UM, I'LL JUST START FROM THE TOP.
COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.
MS. MORRIS, DO YOU STILL WANNA STAY ON THAT ONE? I DO.
UM, AND WE HAVE MR. WELTZ ON THAT, WHICH, YES.
SO I'D, IF WE COULD, I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE, UH, LIZZIE LEWIS FOR THAT AS A STAFF MEMBER.
YEAH, THAT PROBABLY IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO, SINCE SHE'S OUR, UM, DIRECTOR.
UH, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY, I CAN GIVE AN UPDATE FOR LAST YEAR.
LAST YEAR IT WAS MAINLY ABOUT HOUSING.
UH, THEY WENT OVER THE FLOOD PLAIN.
UM, IT WASN'T A LOT FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT REALLY, IN MY OPINION.
IT WAS MORE ABOUT RESIDENTIAL AND WHAT TO EXPECT.
THEY DID TOUCH ON THE SHORT TERM RENTAL ISSUES AT THE LEGISLATIVE LEVEL.
UM, SO AIRBNBS AND SUVS WERE ON THERE, BUT IT WAS MAINLY
[01:40:01]
RESIDENTIAL AND JUST JUST TO LET COUNCIL MEMBERS KNOW, OR ACTUALLY, UM, MR. WOOD, JUST FROM, USUALLY WHAT HAPPENS IN JULY IS THEY BRING ALL THE ISSUES THAT MIGHT BE COMING UP SO THAT THAT COMMITTEE FROM THE WHOLE STATE CAN SAY, YEAH, WE WANT THESE THINGS TO GO TO THE LEGISLATOR IN, IN JANUARY.SO THEY USUALLY IN JULY YOU DO THAT, AND THEN THEY DO ANOTHER ONE, UM, LATER ON.
BUT THAT'S, AS YOU SAID, THAT YOU ONLY MEET ONCE OR TWICE.
YEAH, ONCE OR TWICE AT THE MOST.
SO, UH, ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A DESIRE TO DO COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT? I MEAN, IF YOU COULD HAVE TO ON IT, THAT WOULD BE MY, MY PRIMARY INTEREST.
BUT I THINK, I THINK WE NOT LISTED CAN ONLY HAVE TWO.
SO, UM, FINANCE, UM, WE HAD OUR STAFF MEMBER, THE FINANCE DIRECTOR, MR. WILSON, AND THEN A FORMER COUNCIL MEMBER.
SO THAT ONE DOESN'T HAVE ANYBODY RIGHT NOW AS A COUNCIL MEMBER THAT'S ON THAT COMMITTEE.
IF SOMEBODY'S INTERESTED IN THAT.
DOES ANYBODY, LET'S GO THROUGH ALL OF 'EM JUST TO SEE.
SO, GENERAL LAWS, UH, CURRENTLY MR. SONNET IS A STAFF MEMBER THAT REPRESENTS, WHICH REALLY MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
UM, AND VICE MAYOR OCK WANTED TO BE ON THAT COMMITTEE, UM, WITH HIS, UH, FORMER EXPERIENCE AS A RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT.
UM, MR. OCK, DO YOU STILL WANNA REMAIN ON THAT COMMITTEE? YEAH.
UM, AND MR SO YOU'RE WILLING TO SERVE ON IT.
UM, THEN HUMAN DEVELOPMENT AND EDUCATION, COUNCILWOMAN DE DOMENICO PAY SERVED ON IT.
AND DO YOU HAVE AN INTEREST TO CONTINUE TO SERVE ON THAT? OKAY.
AND THAT IS, UM, THAT IS WHERE WE NEED ANOTHER PERSON.
AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT YOU WOULD AGREE WITH ME ABOUT THAT.
THEY DO TALK A LOT ABOUT THE SCHOOLS, OR THEY DID, WHEN I WAS ON IT, THEY TALKED A LOT ABOUT SCHOOL ISSUES AND WHAT WAS GONNA GO BEFORE THE LEGISLATOR LEGISLATURE, BUT WHICH, AND THEY EVEN TALKED A LOT ABOUT LIKE SOCIAL SERVICES AND YEAH.
SCHOOL SOCIAL SERVICES IS MENTAL HEALTH.
YES, THEY, IS WHAT I'M REMEMBERING DID, YEAH.
WHICH THE COUNCIL ITSELF DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A LOT OF JURISDICTION OVER ANY OF THOSE THINGS, BUT I STILL FELT IT WAS IN, IT WAS, IT WAS IMPORTANT TO HEAR THOSE THINGS.
AND IT, UM, I FOUND PLACES TO CONTRIBUTE AND THINGS THAT WOULD, UM, IMPACT US AS OUR CALL, SO.
AND I DID TOO AT THE TIME, BUT, YOU KNOW, DO YOU STILL WANNA BE ABLE TO YEAH.
SO WE CAN HAVE ANOTHER PERSON ON THAT INFRASTRUCTURE WAS TRANSPORTATION AND ENVIRONMENTAL NATURAL RESOURCES.
COUNCILMAN RAPPAPORT WAS ON THAT ONE LAST YEAR.
DO YOU WANNA REMAIN ON THAT ONE? YEAH, I'LL STAY ON IT.
AND THEN WE ALSO HAD OUR PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR.
BUT AGAIN, I, IT DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT, THAT THOSE PARTICULAR PEOPLE, IT DOESN'T MEAN THOSE STAFF MEMBERS HAVE TO BE ON THERE.
SO THERE'S ROOM FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO SERVE.
IT'S JUST WHETHER OR NOT ANYBODY HAS A DESIRE OR AN INTEREST IN ANY OF THOSE.
SO DOES ANYBODY WANT TO, UM, DO FINANCE? I MEAN, WE COULD HAVE TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS AND NOT HAVE OUR FINANCE DIRECTOR.
UM, ANYBODY ELSE WANNA DO FINANCE INSTEAD OF BJ? I'M SURE BJ WOULD NOT, BUT I WOULD, I THINK IT WOULD BE REALLY IMPORTANT.
PERHAPS IT'S IMPERATIVE TO HAVE A STAFF MEMBER AT LEAST PLUGGED INTO THESE COMMITTEES, SO, YEAH.
I, IF NO ONE OBJECTS, UM, WE, I, I CAN RECOMMEND OR WE CAN MAKE THE NOMINATIONS AND, AND VOTE ON THAT FOR, I KNOW I SAT ON THE FINANCE ONE YOU DID THAT.
I'VE DONE COMMUNITY ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, FINANCE AND GENERAL LAWS IN MY THREE YEARS.
AND FOR FINANCE, THAT'S WHERE THEY DISCUSS THINGS LIKE HOW THE LODGING TAX FOR AIRBNBS AND SHORT TERM RENTALS.
THAT WAS VERY PERTINENT LAST YEAR AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT BJ HAS VERY MUCH BEEN INVOLVED IN.
SO YEAH, I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT.
HE WOULD PROBABLY WANT TO BE A PART OF IT.
AND COUNCILMAN WOOD, MAYBE YOUR TIME ON PLANNING COMMISSION TOO, WITH THE SHORT TERM RENTALS AND STUFF.
YOU'D HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER FOR THAT TOO.
UM, ANYBODY ELSE WANNA JOIN MELISSA ON THE HUMAN DEVELOPMENT AND EDUCATION? JOE, YOU DO? YEAH, I WILL.
IF ANYBODY ELSE TAKES IT, I, I DON'T MIND GETTING LUCK OUT, JOSH.
NOT TRYING TO KEEP YOU OUT OF ANYTHING.
DO YOU HAVE, ARE YOU, IS THERE SOMETHING, YOU, YOU'RE ON FINANCE FOR THE TOWNS COMMITTEE TOO, RIGHT? YEAH.
I WAS GONNA SAY, DO YOU WANNA DO INFRASTRUCTURE
[01:45:01]
INSTEAD OF ROBBIE ON THE TRANSPORTATION? BECAUSE HONESTLY, I JUST, THAT JUST POPPED IN MY HEAD.THAT MIGHT, I MEAN, UNLESS YOU DON'T HAVE AN INTEREST IN IT, BUT I FEEL LIKE THAT MIGHT, YOU, YOU, OH, I THINK I, I THINK JOE'S GOT A GOOD POINT.
I THINK IT'S GOOD TO HAVE ROBBIE ON THAT SINCE WE HAVE A PUBLIC, SINCE WE DO HAVE STAFF, WE HAVE A DIRECTOR FOR THAT.
I MEAN, IF ROBBIE DOESN'T WANNA DO IT, I'LL DO IT.
YOU KNOW, MAYBE WHAT YOU, DO YOU MIND, HEY, I'LL REACH OUT TO ROB, TOUCH BASE WITH HIM.
I, I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, LAST YEAR, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS A CONSISTENT YEAR, BUT I, I DIDN'T SEE A A THEY DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF FOLLOW THROUGH ONCE THEY HAD THESE GENERAL MEETINGS AND STARTED THE POLICY.
UM, JUST SAID THE VML, UH, IT WAS A VML, UH, GENERAL ASSEMBLY THAT THEY WERE TELLING HIM WHAT, WHAT WAS GOING TO BE PRESENTED WITH, WHERE THE, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WAS GOING WITH THE POLICY MAKING.
THAT'S HOW THE GENERAL LAWS IS TOO THOUGH.
I MEAN, THE YEAR I SAT ON THAT, IT WAS JUST ABOUT THE, WHAT WAS COMING DOWN THE PIKE FOR CHANGING THE SECONDARY OFFENSES AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AND TICKETING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
LIKE IT WAS JUST UPDATES WE DIDN'T GET TO.
I WILL SAY IN THAT WHEN I SERVED ON IT TOO, THERE WAS A WHOLE LOT OF LIKE, THIS IS WHAT WE WANNA PUT FORWARD.
BUT THEY DID, THEY DID GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK, YOU KNOW, LIKE FOR INPUT, LIKE WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE THOUGHT THIS.
I, I WILL TELL YOU, 'CAUSE THERE WERE A COUPLE THINGS WHERE I WOULD'VE BEEN THE LOW MAN STANDING.
I WAS GETTING READY TO SAY, Y'ALL SHOULD BE WARN.
I WAS LIKE, I WASN'T REALLY, I DIDN'T, I WASN'T NECESSARILY IN FAVOR OF IT, BUT IT WAS, WAS VERY OBVIOUS THAT THE MAJORITY WERE.
SO, UM, IT'S CONTROLLED DOWN IN THE HAMPTON ROADS AREA, THIS ORGANIZATION.
SO THEY'RE NOT VERY IN TUNE WITH A, YEAH.
SO HOPEFULLY WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO CHECK WITH MR. BOYER AND IF HE'S NOT INTERESTED, JOSH, YOU'D BE WILLING TO SERVE ON THAT.
SO WE WILL KNOW BETWEEN NOW AND WE'LL KNOW BETWEEN NOW AND APRIL 22ND.
SO IF, IF, TINA, YOU GOT ALL THE CHANGES? MM-HMM.
UM, FOUR A HOLD MY, IT'S CONTINUED DISCUSSION OF URBAN AGRICULTURE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS IN TOWN CODE AND MS. KISH KIDS.
NECESSARILY FOURTH OR FIFTH CHECK DISCUSSION.
UM, AND I, I, MY, MY SUGGESTION AT THIS POINT IS WE CAN DISCUSS IT.
WE HAVE BROUGHT IT BACK MULTIPLE TIMES, BUT IF AT THIS POINT, AT THE END OF THIS DISCUSSION TONIGHT, IF THERE'S NO, UM, IF THERE'S NO CONSENSUS TO MOVE FORWARD OR NOT, THEN WE JUST, YOU KNOW, WE CAN JUST END THE DISCUSSION AND YEAH.
THERE WASN'T A CONSENSUS LAST TIME WE COULD HAVE ENDED THE DISCUSSION.
IF I COULD JUST TACK ONTO END OF THAT, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF TWEAKS THAT ARE NECESSARY OKAY.
UNDER THE ANIMAL CHAPTER, REGARDLESS.
SO REGARDLESS, WE'VE GOTTA, WE'VE GOTTA MAKE SOME CHANGES.
SO FOR TONIGHT, THE, ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHANGES THAT WE'VE MADE IS THAT WE TOOK THE URBAN AGRICULTURE REQUIREMENTS, THAT'S 1 75, 1 10 0.5.
WE TOOK THOSE PERFORMANCE STANDARDS OUT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, AND WE'VE PLACED THEM INTO THE ANIMAL CHAPTER.
SO WE STARTED GOING THROUGH THIS.
WE FOUND SOME CONTRADICTIONS BETWEEN THE TWO CODES, AND THIS JUST KIND OF RECONCILES EVERYTHING INTO ONE POINT.
UM, SO I'LL JUST KIND OF GO THROUGH BRIEFLY THE CHANGES THAT WE'VE MADE AND THEN WE CAN WE'LL TAKE QUESTIONS.
UM, BUT BASICALLY WE CHANGED, WE MADE SURE THAT IT SAID THAT IT'S UNLAWFUL FOR LIVESTOCK TO BE KEPT IN TOWN LIMITS.
WE REITERATED THAT THE SLAUGHTERING OF ANIMALS IS PROHIBITED WITHIN TOWN LIMITS.
AND THEN WE AMENDED THE DEFINITIONS.
SO WE INCLUDED BEES AND ANIMALS.
RABBITS BECAME COMPANION ANIMALS THAT WE ARE NOT NECESSARILY REGULATING.
UM, WE CHANGED THE DEFINITION OF LIVESTOCK.
AND THEN 66 14 IS WHERE WE KIND OF TOOK THE CONTENT OF 1 75, 1 10 0.5 IN PLACE THAT INTO THIS CHAPTER.
SO THAT IS WHERE OUR PERFORMANCE STANDARDS LIE.
SO THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE BASICALLY THE EXACT SAME REQUIREMENTS THAT WE'VE BEEN REQUIRING.
THE MANAGEMENT PLANS, THE PROCESS PRETTY MUCH STAYS THE SAME.
SO APPLICANTS WILL COME TO PLANNING AND ZONING, THEY'LL SUBMIT AN APPLICATION FOR THE PLAT WITH A MANAGEMENT PLAN.
IT'S STILL GONNA GET REVIEWED BY THE EXTENSION OFFICE.
OUR STAFF IS STILL GONNA CONDUCT ANNUAL INSPECTIONS, BUT WE'VE CODIFIED THE CHANGES.
AND THE, UM, NUMBER B HIGHS, ONE FROM SIX TO TWO, AND THEN WE HAVE THAT.
AND EVEN WITH A BUSINESS LICENSE, PEOPLE CANNOT SELL HONEY AND CANNOT SELL
[01:50:01]
EGGS.SO URBAN AGRICULTURE AND TOWN LIMITS IS NOT MEANT TO BE A COMMERCIAL ENDEAVOR.
THIS IS NOT MEANT FOR THEM TO SELL EGGS, TRADE EGGS.
IT IS FOR THEM TO RAISE THE CHICKENS, CONSUME THE EGGS THEMSELVES.
THEY'RE NOT TO BE CONSUMING THE CHICKENS.
SWAPPING CHICKENS IS NOT COMMERCIAL.
THEY'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SELLING THE HONEY PROFITING FROM IT.
DID YOU HAVE A THOUGHT ON THAT,
I, I ALWAYS FAVOR PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO MAKE MONEY IF THEY CAN, ESPECIALLY IN THESE HARD TIMES.
UM, AND UM, BUT I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I CAN LIVE WITH WHATEVER THE DECISION OF THE COUNCIL IS, BUT, AND I ALSO, AND THEN I WAS STARTING TO THINK THAT IF NOT IN MY, UH, IT WOULD BE PRETTY, PRETTY, UH, OFFSETTING I GUESS.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, I STARTED TO THINK ABOUT HOW HIGH FOOD PRICES ARE AND IF PEOPLE NEEDED TO RAISE THEIR CHICKENS TO EAT THEM.
UM, YOU KNOW, I, I JUST, I DON'T KNOW IF WE'RE AT THAT POINT YET, BUT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE.
I THINK, THINK THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE MONEY IF THEY CAN EAT THEIR PRODUCE, IF THEY CAN RAISE IT.
AND THIS IS ON A COMPLAINT BASIS TOO, RIGHT? AGAIN, NOT RIGHT NOW.
WE'RE REACTING, BUT WE ARE REACTIVE.
WE DO GO OUT AND DO INSPECTIONS.
WE HAVE NOT REVOKED ANY PERMITS.
TYPICALLY WHAT WE'VE DONE IS WE'VE GIVEN THEM TIME TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE.
AND MOST OF WHAT WE FOUND IS RAT FECES.
AND THAT IS IN VIOLATION OF IT.
I GUESS WHAT I MEANT WAS LIKE WITH THE BEES, LIKE THE SELLING OF HONEY OR EGGS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
YOU SAID ABOUT NOT BARTERING OR WHATEVER.
I JUST MEANT LIKE, I KNOW LITERALLY AT MY SCHOOL, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN STAFF MEMBERS.
THEY, LET ME JUST, LET ME SAY THAT
AND THEY'RE NOT REALLY TRYING TO MAKE A PROFIT, I DON'T THINK.
I THINK IT'S MORE PROBABLY JUST TO GET THEIR MONEY BACK TO, FOR THEIR, THEY'RE THE FEED AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
IF WE DON'T RECEIVE A COMPLAINT, AND I'M NOT AWARE OF IT.
I'M NOT GONNA KNOW IF SOMEBODY HAS CHICKENS AND THEY'RE TAKING THE EGGS OR SELLING EGGS SOMEWHERE.
THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT.
IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE, WE CAN'T ADVERTISE THAT TO THE PUBLIC THAT YOU'RE DOING CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, BUT AS LONG AS WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT, IT IS FINE.
I WAS JUST NO, I'M NOT, I'M NOT SAYING YOU WERE.
I'M JUST SAYING LIKE, I CAN'T TELL PEOPLE.
WELL, AS LONG AS NOBODY COMPLAINS ON YOU, YOU CAN DO IT.
LIKE THAT'S NOT, THAT'S RIGHT.
NO, I JUST MEANT, YEAH, THAT, THAT IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE GONNA HAVE OUR STAFF CATCH DRIVING AROUND TOWN LOOKING FOR GROUPS OF BEES OR WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO ANYWAY, IF WE JUST DID AWAY WITH THAT AND LET PEOPLE HAVE THEIR OWN RIGHTS ON THEIR PROPERTY WHERE THEY SEE FIT.
IS THE RABBITS THING MOVING THE RABBITS, IS THAT A, IS THAT BECAUSE IT WAS SOMETHING THROUGH THE STATE? NO, THAT THEY'RE COMPANION ANIMALS.
THE RABBITS, IF THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BE SLAUGHTERED, YOU'RE NOT USING THEM FOR FUR.
YOU CAN'T SELL ANY PRODUCT OF THE RABBIT AT THAT POINT.
THEY'RE THE FIBER RABBITS COMPANIONSHIP PERMIT.
SO WE HAVE, YEAH, WE HAVE HAD, WE HAD SOMEBODY THAT HAS TO APPLY FOR A RABBIT SLAUGHTERING PERMIT IN THE TOWN LIMITS.
SO AT THIS POINT, THIS WOULD ALLOW US TO NOT REGULATE RABBIT.
YOU'RE KEEPING THEM AS A PET DOMESTICATED RABBITS, RIGHT? WELL, THEY COULD CALL 'EM AN EMOTIONAL SUPPORT RABBIT.
I THINK IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, THERE'S A MAN WITH GOATS, BUT THEY'RE EMOTIONAL SUPPORT GOATS AND THEY LIVE INSIDE THE HOUSE.
THOSE WOULD NOT BE PERMIT DOMESTICATED RABBITS UNDER THIS DRAFT ARE PETS.
AND WE DON'T REGULATE ANY OTHER PETS.
I KNOW, BUT WE DON'T SAY YOU CAN ONLY HAVE TWO DOGS.
WE DON'T REGULATE CATS EITHER, WHICH I WOULD MUCH RATHER DO.
SO IS THERE ANY, ANY DISCUSSION TO WHAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED HERE, UM, DISCUSSION WHATSOEVER ABOUT WANTING TO CHANGE THINGS OR, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? SO BASICALLY YOU'VE CLEANED THINGS UP, BUT OTHER THAN THE RABBITS CHANGING, NOTHING ELSE IS REALLY, WE'VE ADDED BEES.
WE'VE, WE'VE MOVED 1 75, 1 11, OR ONE 10.5 INTO THE ANIMAL CHAPTER.
AND WE'VE, WE'VE RECONCILED WHAT WE BELIEVE WERE CONTRADICTIONS OR ANY INCONSISTENCIES.
COUNSEL, WHAT'S YOUR DISCUSSION OR WHAT ARE,
[01:55:01]
UM, WHENEVER SOMETHING LIKE THIS COMES UP, YOU GUYS KNOW OUR, WE JUST NEED TO KNOW.DO WE ADD IT TO THE NEXT AGENDA? DO WE BRING IT BACK FOR MORE DISCUSSION? WHAT, WHAT? I DON'T WANNA CALL ON PEOPLE, BUT YELL OUT WHATEVER YOU'RE THINKING.
WELL, WELL YOU, I SAID, WELL, YOU WENT LIKE THIS.
AS I WAS SAYING, I'M NOT CALLING YOU.
LOOK, I'M FINE WITH THE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION OKAY.
OR WHERE ARE WE GOING? AND THE REST, THREE PEOPLE ARE READY TO MOVE ON.
MOVE THIS ON TO PUT IT ON THE AGENDA.
NO, I MEAN, I'VE BEEN VERY CLEAR IN THAT FOR ALL SIX OF THE MEETINGS WE'VE HAD, I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR.
AND I THINK IT'S DISCRIMINATORY, AND I THINK IT'S PREDATORY.
AND I THINK IT'S NOT THE RULES OF THE GOVERNMENT.
JUST LIKE I DIDN'T THINK IF SOMEBODY GOT DISTRACTED BY A MURAL, IT WAS CONSIDERED A SIGN.
BUT HERE WE ARE DISCUSSING IT AGAIN.
JUST MOVE IT FORWARD AND I'LL DIE ON THE HILL ALONE.
AND PEOPLE CAN CONTINUE TO BE IRRESPONSIBLE CAT OWNERS THAT ACTUALLY DO PROPERTY DAMAGE AND ARE A MAINTENANCE ISSUE.
AND RABBITS CAN BE WHEREVER WITH THEIR DROPPINGS EVERYWHERE BECAUSE THEIR PETS.
BUT YOU CAN'T FEED YOUR FAMILY.
I KNOW THAT COREY CAME UP AND PRESENTED TO US, WHICH IS IN THE AGENDA.
I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE PROPERTIES WITHIN THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL.
AND THERE ARE MANY LARGE LOTS.
I MEAN, WE HAVE PROPERTIES IN THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL AND THE TOWN LIMITS WITH FIVE TO 10 ACRES.
AND I KNOW THAT WE TALKED ABOUT MAKING IT IF THE LOT SIZE, AND THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO, BUT YOU GUYS HEARD THE WOMAN AT THE PUBLIC HEARING? SHE CAME BEFORE US.
SHE HAD A SIX FOOT PRIVACY FENCE.
AND SHE'S GONNA HAVE TO GO REBUILD EVERYTHING AFTER THIS.
YOU HAVE THREE PEOPLE THAT ARE READY TO ACCEPT IT.
I DIDN'T SAY ACCEPT IT, I JUST MEANT PUT IT.
OR IF YOU ARE READY TO MOVE THIS FORWARD TO TAKE ACTION ON IT, WHICH WE HAVE TO ANYWAY, BECAUSE THERE, YOU ALREADY FOUND INCONSISTENCIES IN WHAT WE HAD.
SO WE, WE NEEDED TO MAKE EDITS ANYWAY.
LET, LET ME TOUCH ON ONE THING.
WHICH IS APPARENTLY WHEN URBAN AG WAS ADDED TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE MM-HMM.
SO WE HAVE ONE, SO THAT HAS, THAT HAS TO BE FIXED.
WE HAD ONE CHAPTER OF TOWN CODE THAT PROHIBITED THEM AND THEN ONE THAT PERMITTED THEM.
AND, UH, INTEREST AND IT'S DIFFICULT FOR STAFF TO ENFORCE WHEN WE GOT CONTRADICTORY CODE.
SO THIS WILL TAKE OUT ANY CONTRADICTIONS.
IT REMOVES THE, THE USE A LOT.
SO ON THAT POINT, OF COURSE, IF YOU'RE IN THE AG ZONE MM-HMM.
AND IF YOU, IF YOU'RE
JOSH, MELISSA, ARE YOU OKAY WITH MOVING IT FORWARD? UNLESS Y'ALL, I MEAN, IS THERE, YOU CAN MOVE FORWARD IN MY YEAH, I'M NOT ASKING FOR PEOPLE'S BED.
I'M STILL NOT, I JUST, I'M STILL NOT CONVINCED.
LIKE I SAID, I, I, I HAVEN'T CHANGED EITHER ON MY STANCE SET.
I, I THOUGHT WE WERE GONNA TRY TO WORK FOR A WAY TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE LENIENT.
I MEAN, IF WE'RE NOT GONNA ALLOW SLAUGHTERED, I MEAN, I, I PERSONALLY, I THINK IF YOU'RE GONNA RAISE CHICKENS, THERE COMES TO A POINT WHERE YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO EITHER EAT 'EM OR EUTHANIZE 'EM OR GET RID OF 'EM, YOU KNOW, OR SOMETHING.
SO WE'RE JUST SAYING YOU CAN'T SLAUGHTER 'EM IN TOWN.
I, I KNOW I'M SAYING, I'M JUST SAYING THAT, DON'T SHOOT ME FOR ASKING THIS QUESTION, BUT COULD YOU TAKE, COULD YOU TAKE YOUR CHICKENS OUTSIDE OF TOWN? I MEAN, I'M JUST TAKE 'EM TO THE TRAIN, I GUESS.
I'M, I'M JUST SAYING, I'M, I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S, THAT'S A POINT THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION, YOU KNOW, AND I AGREE THAT RIGHT THERE ARE LOTS IN TOWN, I THINK THAT WOULD ALLOW MORE THAN SIX CHICKENS.
YOU KNOW, HAVING RAISED CHICKENS MYSELF AND, YOU KNOW, AND, AND YOU KNOW, SPACE.
I, I THINK THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND, AND MORE, AND FOLKS NOW MORE, MORE AND MORE SEEM TO BE, UM, GETTING, YOU KNOW, EGGS FROM HOME OR BUYING EGGS, YOU KNOW, UH, LOCALLY OR, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF GOING TO THE STORE.
I MEAN, THERE WAS A POINT IN THE STORE WHERE THEY WERE, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY'D GONE UP
[02:00:01]
ASTRONOMICAL ON PRICE.I MEAN, I, I, I'VE NEVER SEEN 'EM SO EXPENSIVE.
I MEAN, I REMEMBER I WAS A KID.
I THINK THEY WERE ALWAYS SOMETHING I ALWAYS THOUGHT WAS DIRT CHEAP.
BUT YEAH, SO I MEAN, JUST ON THOSE POINTS, I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, I, I'M, MY STANCE IS STILL THE SAME.
I MEAN, I, I DO AGREE WITH A LOT OF IT, BUT FOR JUST THOSE TWO POINTS, I MEAN, IF WE'RE GONNA KEEP GOING AT IT WITH THOSE, YOU KNOW, KEEP CHOPPING AT THE BIT, BUT I'M, I'M STILL TAKING THE SAME STANCE, SO I'M, I'M AGAINST IT.
CAN, CAN WE HAVE, UM, SORT OF TWO PHASES OF THE VOTE? I MEAN, THERE'S THE, THE, THE REALITY THAT YOU NEEDED TO, TO CONSOLIDATE THE LANGUAGE AND MOVE, MOVE FROM ONE CODE TO ANOTHER.
AND I, YOU KNOW, I WOULD BE, I'M IN SUPPORT OF YOU DOING ANYTHING THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT IS STREAMLINING THE CODE.
UM, BUT IF THERE'S POINTS IN THE CODE OF CONTENTION, UM, WHETHER IT'S, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY THE COMMERCIAL USE OF SELLING, UM, I WONDER IF THAT CAN BE LANGUAGE THAT WE RETURN TO AT SOME POINT OR CONSIDER AT A DIFFERENT, AT DIFFERENT TIME.
IS THAT POSSIBLE? I MEAN, I GUESS YOU CAN RE REVISIT.
BUT, BUT, UM, IF WE, CAN WE VOTE JUST TO MOVE THE LANGUAGE AT THIS POINT AND THEN REVISIT POINTS OF CONTENTION? SHOULD I ADDRESS THAT? YES, SURE.
SO, SO STARTING WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE, TO PUT IT SIMPLY, TO ME IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO BE IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE BECAUSE FIRST OF ALL, IT'S NOT CORRECT THE WAY IT IS NOW.
THERE'S NO MENTION IN ANY ZONING DISTRICTS ABOUT ACCESSORY USE FOR URBAN AG.
UM, WHEN IT'S IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, YOU START GETTING INTO VESTED RIGHTS, YOU GET INTO APPEALS TO THE BOARD OF ZONING, APPEALS AND CIRCUIT COURT SPECIAL USE PERMITS ARE IN THERE, WHICH WOULD BRING ALL OF THIS THROUGH THE PLANNING COMMISSION EVERY TIME SOMEONE WANTED TO HAVE A CHICKEN.
SO THAT'S THE ZONING ORDINANCE, RIGHT? AS FAR AS, UM, THIS DRAFT, SURE.
IT, WHATEVER COUNCIL WANTS TO DO, UM, YOU WOULD START WITH A DRAFT AND THEN YOU AMEND OFFER AMENDMENTS.
IF I'M ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION, MELISSA, DID HE ANSWER YOUR QUESTION? SHE DID.
SO SOUNDS LIKE THE TWO ITEMS THAT ANYBODY MIGHT HAVE ANY, UH, UM, WISHES TO ADDRESS WOULD BE THE SALES OF THE PRODUCTS.
SALES OF THE PRODUCT AND THE SIZE OF THE LOT, BEING ABLE TO POSSIBLY, UM, ADJUST THE NUMBER OF CHICKENS BASED ON THE SIZE.
THOSE, THOSE ARE THE TWO THINGS THAT I HEAR.
NO, I I KNOW YOU'RE, THE FIELD IS GONNA, THAT'S GONNA BE AN ISSUE CHANGING MULTIPLE SECTIONS OF TOWN CODE.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW ON PAGE 46, THEN WE CAN MOVE ON.
ALL CHICKENS MUST BE KEPT AT ALL TIMES IN AN ENCLOSED COVERED CURE, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
AND THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE RUN SPACE, WHICH IS JUST UNFAIR AND THEN MUST BE KEPT IN NEAT AND SANITARY CONDITIONS.
AND THE MEANS FROM VIRGINIA TECH EVEN SAID A FREE RANGE CHICKEN IS 100 TIMES HEALTHIER THAN A CHICKEN THAT'S KEPT IN A COOP AT ALL TIMES.
BUT YOU'RE ALSO CONSIDERING THE PUBLIC HEALTH ASPECT OF IT TOO.
AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE REGULATING THESE THINGS IS FOR HEALTH, THE CHICKENS AND THE HEALTH OF PEOPLE.
BUT JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT IN A COOP DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY'RE NECESSARILY POSING A PUBLIC HEALTH RISK IF THEY'RE BEING TAKEN CARE OF AS THEY SHOULD BE, WHICH WE ARE INSPECTING.
THE LAST TIME WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION AROUND THE TABLE, YOUR DEPARTMENT WAS DRIVING AROUND LISTENING FOR THE ROOSTER THAT WAS CROWING IN THE TOWN LIMITS BECAUSE WE RECEIVE A COMPLAINT, RIGHT.
SO PEOPLE CAN CALL THEM IN IF THERE IS A COMPLAINT, BUT PART OF WHAT WE'RE ALSO CHECKING AND, AND IF THEY'RE RUNNING, IF THEY'RE RUNNING OUTSIDE OF A COOPER, AN ENCLOSED AREA, IF THEY GET TOO CLOSE TO A BODY OF WATER, THEY COULD BE PUTTING THEIR WASTE INTO THOSE BODIES OF WATER.
SO PART OF THIS IS WE REQUIRE THEM TO BE A CERTAIN DISTANCE AWAY FROM ANY STREAM.
AND I THINK THAT CAN STILL BE ACCOMPLISHED, KEEPING THEM AWAY FROM A STREAM.
BUT LIKE I SAID, IT'S, I'M THE SOLE ONE ON THIS.
I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER TO REPORT.
JUST LIKE THE COWS POOPING IN THE RIVER CAUSED A BUNCH OF ISSUES A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS IN AGRICULTURAL LOCALITIES.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT COULD EASILY HAVE BEEN WRITTEN INTO THE CODE THAT THEY COULDN'T BE IN THE CREEKS AND STREAMS
[02:05:01]
WITHOUT BEING IN FOUR FEET PER CHICKEN AND RUN SPACE.ALRIGHT, SO WE WILL PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA FOR APRIL 22ND, RIGHT? NO, WE CAN'T BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO A PUBLIC HEARING FIRST.
IT PUBLIC HEARING, SO, SO THIS WILL BE IN MAY.
DO YOU WANT TO PROCEED WITH THAT MAYOR? I'M SORRY? DO YOU WANT TO PROCEED WITH THE PUBLIC HEARING? I BELIEVE SO.
AND JUST AS ANYTHING ELSE, THAT'LL BE THE PUBLIC'S OPPORTUNITY TO COME AND WEIGH IN.
MAYBE THEY HAVE SOME OF THE SAME OPINIONS THAT THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS DO, OR THEY MIGHT AS WE'VE ALWAYS SAID BEFORE, SOMETIMES THEY BRING UP NEW INFORMATION WE HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING.
UM, FOUR B, THE ALLEY VACATION REQUEST FOR 2 25 EAST SEVENTH STREET AND 6 31 KIBBLER STREET.
AND AND THE LAST, YEAH, GO AHEAD.
I'M SORRY MS. WILLIAMS. UM, SO THIS IS BASICALLY INFORMATION.
UH, WE DID HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING ON MARCH 25TH FOR THE VACATION OF 2 25 EAST SEVENTH STREET AND 6 31 KIPLER.
THE VIEWING COMMITTEE WENT OUT AND VISITED THE SITE.
UH, THEY ANONYMOUS, THEY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THE VACATION AS REQUESTED BY THE APPLICANT.
BUT THEY ALSO RECOMMEND THAT WE OBTAIN A 50 15 FOOT WIDE EASEMENT ON THE NORTH SIDE OF EAST SEVENTH STREET TO PROVIDE ACCESS TO EAST SEVENTH STREET TO HAPPY CREEK.
UH, I WILL SAY THAT SINCE WE SENT REGISTERED LETTERS TO ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNERS HAD THE PUBLIC HEARING, I'VE RECEIVED ZERO FEEDBACK.
'CAUSE I KNOW THERE WAS ONE PARTICULAR, I THOUGHT THERE MIGHT BE ONE PERSON THAT WAS GONNA GIVE SOME FEEDBACK BECAUSE, JUST BECAUSE THAT PARTICULAR SPACE HAS BEEN FREE FOR ANYBODY TO USE.
AND I BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, SOME PROPERTY, A PROPERTY OWNER WAS MAYBE USING THAT TO ENTER THEIR PROPERTY.
AND SO, BUT AS MR. WALT SAID, I, I FULLY EXPECTED SOMEBODY TO COME TO THE PUBLIC HEARING, BUT THEY DID NOT.
SO WE WON'T BE HAVING ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING.
THIS ITEM WILL BE PUT ON THE APRIL 22ND AS A CONSENT AGENDA.
ADOPTION OF THE ORDINANCE TO VACATE THE, OKAY.
SO DOES THAT NEED TO, CAN THAT BE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA? UH, DON'T THINK SO.
IT WOULD HAVE TO BE AN ACTUAL BUSINESS.
ANY COUNSEL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR THING? UH, I'M ALWAYS GRATEFUL WHEN THERE'S A VIEWING COMMITTEE REPORT.
UM, ESPECIALLY THE QUALITY OF THE VIEWING COMMITTEE.
THE PEOPLE THAT ARE PART OF VIEWING COMMITTEE HAVE EXTENSIVE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT, UM, OF THESE TYPES OF THINGS.
MR. WALTZ, YOU ARE UP FOR THE REQUEST FOR AN EASEMENT ON TOWN PROPERTY FROM DONALD STALLINGS NEAR DUCK STREET.
I WILL SAY EVERYBODY'S READ THE BACKGROUND, BUT EVERY PERSON THAT'S SITTING HERE WHAT, UM, HAS BEEN PART OF ALL OF THESE DISCUSSIONS.
SO THIS ISN'T NEW INFORMATION, BUT MR. WALT.
SO, UH, THIS IS A FOLLOW UP FROM OUR LAST MEETING ON FEBRUARY 12TH.
UH, THERE WAS A FEW QUESTIONS FROM COUNSEL ABOUT THE REQUEST.
UM, I THINK THE APPLICANT, UH, DONALD STALLINGS PROVIDED AN EMAIL RESPONSE TO THOSE QUESTIONS.
UH, I THINK THE BIGGEST ISSUE THAT I BELIEVE WAS WHAT THAT WAS BROUGHT UP AT THE LAST WORK SESSION WAS THE PERMIT FROM VDOT IN THE ONE DAY, UH, TIMEFRAME THAT WAS ON THE VDOT PERMIT.
UH, I HAVE RECEIVED CORRESPONDENCE FROM VDOT THAT THAT IS A NORMAL PRACTICE FOR THEM WHEN THEY HAVE NO WORK TO DO FOR A PERMIT.
SO THAT'S JUST THE WAY THEY ENTERED INTO THE SYSTEM.
SO HE, UH, THE APPLICANT DOES HAVE ACCESS TO ACCESS PDOS PROPERTY.
UH, OBVIOUSLY THAT IS, UH, IN ANY PERMIT CAN BE REVOCABLE, I GUESS.
UM, BUT THERE ARE A FEW CONDITIONS ON HIS PERMIT THAT HE CANNOT CONSTRUCT ANYTHING IN THE RIGHT OF WAY AND OF THAT SORT.
SO, UH, FOR TONIGHT, COUNSEL, UH, WILL ENTERTAIN ANY QUESTIONS.
I DO BELIEVE THE APPLICANT IS IN THE AUDIENCE.
UH, BUT AT THIS POINT, STAFF NEEDS DIRECTION ON IF COUNSEL WANTS TO ENTERTAIN AN EASEMENT ACCESS, AND IF THEY DO, WHAT RESTRICTIONS OF THAT ACCESS DO THEY WANT TO DICTATE? CAN YOU REFRESH MY MEMORY ON THE, THE LOCK OF THE GATE? LIKE WHAT KIND OF LOCK WAS THERE? UM, WE DO HAVE A GATE RIGHT THERE THAT, UM, I'M SORRY.
YEAH, IT'S GOT A PADLOCK ON IT.
UH, WE'VE PROVIDED MR. STALLINGS ACCESS HERE RECENTLY TO GET TO THAT PROPERTY, BUT WE KEEP THAT LOCK FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.
WELL, I MEAN, IS IT POSSIBLE OR WOULD IT BE COST PROHIBITIVE TO HAVE A, UM, UH, PUSH BUTTON LOCK OR SOME OTHER SORT OF LOCK THAT,
[02:10:01]
WHERE IF, IF WE GAVE, YOU KNOW, GAVE THE INCIDENT, UM, WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST WITH SITUATIONS LIKE THIS, WE'LL JUST DAISY CHAIN ONE OF THEIR LOCKS IN THAT, IN THAT LOOP SO THAT THEY CAN GAIN ACCESS.BUT THIS WOULD ONLY, I JUST WANNA CLARIFY.
UM, IF COUNSEL SO WISHES TO GRANT THE ACCESS, IT'S ONLY FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER, RIGHT? IF THIS ISN'T FOR OTHER VISITORS, OTHER GUESTS, YOU, YOU UNDERSTAND WHERE I'M COMING FROM THAT THIS, THIS ISN'T GONNA BE A SITUATION WHERE, UH, THIS PROPERTY IS GONNA BE, UH, BECOME, YOU KNOW, LIKE A CAMP CAMPGROUND OR AN EVENT CENTER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, THE APPLICANT DID RESPOND TO THAT QUESTION.
HE DID STATE, I GUESS IT WAS, YOU KNOW, FAMILY, FRIENDS I GUESS.
BUT, UM, WELL, FRIENDS THE DAY IS A VERY GENERIC
BUT TOWN COUNCIL CAN PROVIDE ANY TYPE OF PARAMETERS OR RESTRICTIONS ON THAT ACCESS TO THAT EASEMENT.
UH, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR GEORGE, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT COUNCIL IS IN FULL CONTROL OF WHAT THEY WANT TO PERMIT ON THAT ACCESS.
UH, I ONLY ASKED THAT BECAUSE IN ONE OF THE PREVIOUS MEETINGS WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ACCOUNT, UH, ONE OR TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS, UH, BROUGHT UP WAS THAT BECAUSE THEY WERE GONNA BE ACCESSING THROUGH THE TOWN'S PROPERTY THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS THE CONCERN OF HOW DO WE, UM, KEEP THAT PROPERTY SECURE FOR THE TOWN AND LIABILITY PURPOSES OF SOMEBODY GETTING HURT OR OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND SO THAT'S WHY I ASKED, I KNOW AT THE TIME WHEN IT, WHEN THIS FIRST CAME UP, THAT WAS COUNSEL'S, UH, COUNSEL'S QUESTIONS WERE BASED AROUND THE FACT THAT, THAT HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT IT'S JUST SOMEBODY ACCESSING THEIR PROPERTY WHEN NEEDED VERSUS ANYBODY HAVING ACCESS TO THE PADLOCK OR THE GATE OR THE CODE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT AND NOT, AND THEN, AND THEN THE TOWN, UM, HAVING LIABILITY.
RIGHT? I MEAN, AM I, Y'ALL DO REMEMBER THIS CONVERSATION, RIGHT?
SO I HOPE HE HEARD THAT HE CAN'T SELL HIS HONEY IF HE'S SO DESIRED LEGALLY.
I MEAN, I THINK FOR ENJOYMENT OF THE PROPERTY, WE, WE, I, YOU KNOW, I WOULD NOT SAY YOU CAN'T HAVE FAMILY OR FRIENDS, BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY THAT YOU HAVE TO BE PRESENT TO, UH, YOU ONLY THE OWNER SHOULD BE THE ONE THAT OPERATES THE GATE HAS THE KEY TO THE GATE.
NOBODY CAN BE THERE WITHOUT THE OWNER PRESENT OR, OR, YEAH.
I THINK PRESENT BECAUSE THEY'RE GONNA BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR ON THAT, ON THE LAND.
YOU'VE HEARD ONE, ONE COUNCIL MEMBER'S COMMENTS.
I WOULDN'T WANNA LET PEOPLE HAVE RECREATION AT MY PLACE WITHOUT ME THERE.
ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE GONNA BE THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.
SO, BECAUSE YOU ARE ACCIDENT INVESTING THROUGH TOWN'S PROPERTY AND VDOT AND BDOS, BUT VDOT KIND OF PUT IT OVER ON US.
WELL, AND HONESTLY, LIKE IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO USE IT FOR IRRESPONSIBLE PURPOSES OR VANDALIZE THAT THEY WOULDN'T BE COMING BEFORE COUNCIL AT ALL THESE WORK SESSIONS THAT ARE ALIGNED FOR OUR PERMIT TO DO.
OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS, COMMENTS, THOUGHTS? 'CAUSE THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD, UM, WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS, RIGHT? NO, MY, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO GET COUNSELS, UH, WHAT THEY WANT IN THAT.
AND I WOULD BRING IT BACK TO ANOTHER WORK SESSION WITH A DRAFT LEASE.
UH, LEASE OR NOT LEASE, EXCUSE ME.
SO AN EASEMENTS OF CONVEYANCE OF AN INTEREST IN LAND, RIGHT.
AND YES, YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE PUBLIC HEARING, DO YOU? OKAY.
UM, AND, UM, BUT THERE COULD BE RESTRICTIONS IN IT, THINGS THAT, THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS, ALL THINGS POSSIBLE HAVE SUGGESTED.
AND THEN ONE OTHER QUESTION, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER EASEMENT, DOES IT, IS IT AN UNLIMITED TIME OR IT CAN BE A, IF FOR, IF THERE COMES A TIME WHERE A FUTURE COUNSEL CHOOSES NOT TO.
I THINK IF YOU VIOLATE THE TERMS OF THE EASEMENT.
BUT IF NOT, THEN IT'S JUST A, IT'S JUST AN UNLIMITED TIMEFRAME.
IF THERE'S A TIMEFRAME, IT'S MORE LIKE A LICENSE.
BUT THE EASEMENT CAN BE REVOKED TOO BY FUTURE COUNSELS, RIGHT? NO.
YOU CAN'T TAKE AN EASEMENT BACK LIKE I'VE SEEN STIPULATIONS IN EASEMENTS BEFORE.
[02:15:01]
I SAID, IF THERE'S A VIOLATION OF THE TERMS. OKAY, SURE.WELL, IF IT CHANGES OWNERSHIP TOO, RIGHT? IS THAT TRANSFER THAT, THAT COULD BE A CONDITION.
YEAH, IT'S NOT, THIS IS NOT A ZONING ISSUE.
CHANGES OWNERSHIP, UH, UM, UH, DOESN'T CARE OWNER OR ONE, ONE ON SITE.
MR. WOULD YOU OFFER SOMETHING EXTRA QUESTION FOR MR. SONIC? CAN THIS BE, UH, CAN WE DO A, A ONE YEAR ON THIS? AND IF WE DON'T SEE ANY ISSUES OR HAVE PROBLEMS, THEN WE CONTINUE IT.
I MEAN, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I WAS ASKING.
SO THAT'S, YEAH, HE SAID THERE'S NO TIMEFRAME OR AT CONTRACT.
YEAH, I, WELL, ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE TRICKY.
I'M JUST GONNA SAY EVERY CONDITION IS TRICKY AS FROM A DRAFTING STANDPOINT.
BUT, BUT I DO THINK THAT'S A, I THINK THAT'S, WE, THIS COUNSEL HAS SAID OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT THEY DON'T WANNA BIND FUTURE COUNSELS.
SO I THINK WHAT MR. WOOD IS SUGGESTING IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THIS COUNCIL TO SAY IT'S GOOD WITH US.
BUT, YOU KNOW, FIVE YEARS FROM NOW, THAT MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, A DIFFERENT COUNSEL MIGHT THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT IT.
SO, OR THE TOWN MAY HAVE DIFFERENT PLANS FOR ITS LAND.
I AGREE WITH, I I THINK THAT'S, AND WE MAY BE SENDING YOU A YEAR FROM NOW SAYING, HEY, GREAT, EVERYTHING'S WORKED OUT FINE AND LET'S, AND WE HAVE NO FUTURE USE FOR THIS THEN.
DOES THE COUNSELOR HAVE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT TOWN LIABILITY? UH, I MEAN, I'LL GIVE A BIZARRE EXAMPLE, BUT IT HAPPENS.
UH, BRICK THROWN OFF THE BRIDGE LENS.
THE WIND DRIVING THROUGH THE TOWN PROPERTY BREAKS THROUGH THE WINDSHIELD.
IT'S THE O IT'S ONE OF THE OCCUPANTS KILLS HIM.
SO LET ME UNDERSTAND THE SCENARIO.
SO THE BRICK LANDS ON TOWN PROPERTY.
IT, IT, IT COMES AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S TRAFFIC OR SOMEONE WALKING ACROSS THE BRIDGE AND TOSSES IT.
OF COURSE THE TOWN HAD, WOULD HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OR I, I
GENERALLY IN THAT SCENARIO, NO.
WHAT YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT IS, UM, UH, INVITEES OR, UH, UH, INDIVIDUALS BY AGREEMENT CROSSING YOUR LAND AND YOU KNOW ABOUT A HAZARD.
YOU'RE AWARE OF A HAZARD AND YOU DON'T WARN THAT KIND OF THING.
IS, IS A SITUATION OR SCENARIO WHERE THERE COULD BE LIABILITY, BUT SOMETHING TOTALLY UNFORESEEN AS YOU INITIALLY SUGGEST.
ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALWAYS SOME SCENARIO WHERE THERE COULD BE, BUT BASICALLY IF SOMEBODY GETS HURT ON THE TOWN PROPERTY PORTION AND THE, AND THE ACCESS TO GET TO THE PROPERTY, IS THE TOWN LIABLE? THAT'S POSSIBLE.
THAT'S, I MEAN, I KNOW THAT WAS A STRANGE SCENARIO HE GAVE, BUT JUST SIMPLISTIC TERMS. I MEAN, NO, BRUCE, I I KNEW WHERE YOU WERE GOING.
IT'S NOT TOTALLY OFF THE CHART.
SO IN INTERSTATE 66, RIGHT? NO, ALL I'M SAYING IS IF SOMEBODY GETS HURT ON THE PROPERTY OF THE TOWN, THAT MEANS THE TOWN HAS SOME KNOWLEDGE OF A CONDITION.
AND FAILS TO WARN OR, OR REMOVE THE HAZARD, THAT KIND OF THING.
WELL, WE HAVE NO KNOWN HAZARDS THAT WE HAVE.
LIKE, THAT'S LIKE GOING OUTSIDE AND GETTING STRUCK BY LIGHTNING.
YOU GOT BAD LUCK IF THAT HAPPENS.
IT'S LIKE WHAT IT, THE ROAD ISN'T LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT A ROAD, IT IS JUST A, IT IS JUST A PATH.
BUT ALSO YOU READ HIS EMAIL PLANS, CLEAR HIS PORTION UP AND CUT WOOD AND STUFF, BUT WE'RE NOT OBLIGATED TO SORT OF KEEP THAT PATH IN A CERTAIN CONDITION.
WALKABILITY OR THAT, THAT WOULD, WOULD BE ADDRESSED IN THE EASEMENT.
AND MAINTENANCE WOULD BE ADDRESSED IN THE EASEMENT? WELL, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD HAVE TO, I THINK THAT IT'S, IT'S, YOU KNOW, TAKE THE PATH AT DRAIN DURING RISK.
IF WE HAVE THAT ABILITY TO SAY SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.
ESPECIALLY IF WE'RE NOT HAVING TO DO IT NOW, WHY WOULD WE SUDDENLY HAVE TO START DOING IT? WE MAINTAIN IT.
ANY OTHER CONDITIONS THAT COUNSEL WOULD LIKE TO SEE AS PART OF THE DRAFT? DO WE COVER
[02:20:01]
THEM ALL? COULD YOU, COULD YOU READ THEM BACK TO US OR GIVE US, OH, YOU WERE GONNA ASK ME THAT.I'VE GOT TOWN LIABILITY ISSUES.
I GOTTA LOOK UP OWNER PRESENT TO ACCESS.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAID THAT ONE.
OTHER THAN THAT, YEAH, THAT WAS ALL OF THEM.
AND COMPENSATION ARE, ARE WE JUST THOUGH, IF WE'RE SAYING THAT ONE YEAR, UM, I MEAN, I DON'T WANNA PUT STAFF IN A POSITION OF OBLIGATING, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU HAVE TO GO DO AN INSPECTION, ANOTHER INSPECTION OF SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, UNNECESSARILY.
SO, I MEAN THE PERSON'S BOUGHT THEIR LAND.
ROBBIE SAID HE USES THAT ACCESS ALREADY.
I THINK JUST IN A YEAR YOU WOULD JUST RENEW IT IF NEEDED.
LIKE NOT HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW THEY'VE BEEN TRAVELING ON IT.
I THINK THAT WITHIN A YEAR WE WOULD KNOW IF WE STARTED RECEIVING COMPLAINTS IN THAT AREA OR IF THE GATE WAS LEFT OPEN.
WE STARTED HAVING TRAFFIC, UH, BACK THERE.
A YEARLY, UH, WEEK YEARLY WE NOTE, I THINK IT'S GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK.
I MEAN, IT'S GONNA BE RECORDED IN THE LAND RECORDS AND I, I I THINK IF IT'S A YEAR, IT'S GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK FOR ANOTHER YEAR.
I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THERE'S AN ADMINISTRATIVE WAY TO DO THIS.
WELL, HOW MUCH, HOW INCONVENIENT IS IT FOR IT TO COME BACK EVERY YEAR AND LET THAT COUNCIL? I MEAN, WE HAVE, WE HAVE OTHER THINGS THAT WE HAD TO DO EVERY YEAR.
WELL, IT'S NOT AN EASEMENT THEN ANYMORE.
RIGHT? IT'S A LEASE OR A CONTRACT AT THAT POINT.
IF IT'S, WELL, WELL I UNDERSTOOD THE CONDITION TO BE THAT THE EASEMENT'S GOOD FOR A YEAR.
BUT THEN THE, BUT THEN THE IDEA IS WILL RENEW IT WITHOUT IT COMING BACK TO COUNCIL.
I I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO THAT.
BUT I'M ASKING YOU HOW INCONVENIENT IS IT TO JUST DO IT EVERY YEAR? RIGHT.
THAT'S WHAT, WHAT HE'S SAYING.
HE WAS SAYING HOW DO WE DO IT WITHOUT IT COMING BACK TO US JUST AUTOMATICALLY STRAIGHT TO COME BACK.
SO IT'S JUST EVERY YEAR IN BE A LEASE JUNE OR JULY, WHENEVER WE APPROVE IT EVERY YEAR, YOU COULD EVERY YEAR IT'S BACK ON THE CONSENT AGENDA OR, OR A BUSINESS ITEM.
UM, MR. SONNET JUST SAID IT COULD BE A LEASE AS WELL.
AND THEN A LEASE WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE RECORDED.
THE LAND USE IT WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE.
IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE JUST ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE.
I WANT PUT MORSO ANY UNDUE TROUBLE, BUT IT, WELL, THAT'S WHAT I WAS, HOW MUCH DOES IT COST TO FILE AN EASEMENT EVERY YEAR VERSUS JUST DOING A LEASE? LIKE WE'VE SEEN, WE'VE LEASED PARKING SPACES BEFORE TOO SOON.
I'M JUST SAYING WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE.
UM, BUT IF THERE IS A COST TO FILE THIS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, I THINK THAT OUGHT TO BE PART OF THE LEASE.
THAT, THAT IT'S NOT A COST TO THE TOWN.
'CAUSE ULTIMATELY THAT'S A COST TO THE TOWN CITIZENS.
SO IF THERE IS A COST TO FILE ANY OF THIS, I WOULD SAY WHOEVER'S ASKING FOR IT WOULD, I THINK REPORTING A DEED EVERY YEAR IS GONNA BE PROBABLY PRETTY.
YOU HAVE ENOUGH JEFF? YEAH, I HAVE ENOUGH.
WE WILL BRING THIS BACK TO MAY 6TH.
UM, IF WE BRING IT BACK TO THE WORK SESSION ON MAY 6TH, IS THAT TOO LATE TO HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING AT THE END OF MAY? NOT THE FIRST PUBLIC? WE CAN, WE CAN STILL, WE CAN STILL HAVE A PUBLIC FIRST WORK SESSION IS A YES.
SO WE COULD STILL ALL SO THOSE ARE ALL THREE ITEMS. UH, REMEMBER THAT SOMEBODY, UM, WE, YOU ALL VOTED TO READY HAVE ITEM I MOVE THAT TOWN COUNCIL CONVENE A CLOSED MEETING PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 1 AND 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 2 OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSES.
ONE, PURSUANT TO SECTION 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 1 A EIGHT OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR CONSULTATION WITH LEGAL COUNSEL EMPLOYED OR RETAINED BY A PUBLIC BODY REGARDING SPECIFIC LEGAL MATTERS REQUIRING THE PROVISION OF LEGAL ADVICE BY SUCH COUNSEL.
MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE CONDITIONAL VACATION AND SALE OF A PORTION OF NORTH ROYAL AVENUE AND AN UNIMPROVED ALLEYWAY BETWEEN NORTH ROYAL AVENUE AND VIRGINIA AVENUE.
COUNCIL MR. PRESLEY, I WOULD RATHER BE IN VICE MAYOR
AND JUST, UM, WE MAY, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY COUNCIL WILL COME OUT OF CLOSED AND TAKE ACTION.
[02:25:01]
ANY DESIRE, I JUST THOUGHT I'D LET EVERYBODY KNOW THAT.I JUST SAID COUNCIL MAY MAYOR COUNSEL.
UH, MADAM MAYOR MOVED THAT COUNCIL CERTIFIED TO THE BEST OF EACH MEMBERS KNOWLEDGE WORKING EACH COUNCIL MEMBERS AFFIRMATIVE VOTE AND ONLY SUCH PUBLIC BUSINESS MATTERS.
LAWFULLY EXEMPTED FROM OPEN MEETING REQUIREMENTS UNDER THE VIRGINIA FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT AS WERE IDENTIFIED IN THE MOTION BY WHICH THE CLOSE MEETING WAS CONVENED OR HEARD, DISCUSSED OR CONSIDERED IN THE CLOSED MEETING BY COUNCIL.
AND THAT THE VOTE OF EACH INDIVIDUAL MEMBER OF COUNCIL BE TAKEN BY ROLL CALL AND RECORDED AND INCLUDED IN THE MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF TOWN COUNCIL.
SECOND, MS. PRESLEY, VICE MAYOR
SO WE ARE BACK IN OPEN MEETING.
UM, I WILL, UH, IS THERE ANYBODY HAVE ANYTHING THEY WANNA OFFER? MADAM MAYOR MAKE A MOTION FOR, UH, IN FURTHERANCE OF THE ACCORD OF THE ORDINANCE APPROVING FOR DISCLOSURE AND VACATION OF APPROXIMATELY 0.3518 ACRE OF PUBLIC RIGHTS OF WAY AND A PORTION OF NORTH ROYAL AVENUE ABUTTING 1516 NORTH ROYAL AVENUE AND IN THE UNIMPROVED VARIABLE WIDTH ALLEY LOCATED BETWEEN NORTH ROYAL AVENUE AND VIRGINIA AVENUE OF BUDDING 1516 NORTH ROYAL AVENUE AND 1505 VIRGINIA AVENUE.
I MOVE THAT COUNSEL APPROVED THE OFFER TO PURCHASE RECEIVED BY THE TOWN MANAGER FROM THE APPLICANT IN THE AMOUNT OF $27,000, ALONG WITH SATISFACTION OF ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS STATED IN THE ORDINANCE.
HEY, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? NOBODY WANTS, NO NEED TO DISCUSS THIS.
ALRIGHT, MS. LEY, LET'S DO A ROLL CALL PLACE.
COUNCILMAN DE DAMON PAYNE? YES.
MOTION PASSES AND AT THIS TIME I'M GONNA ADJOURN OUR WORK SESSION.