* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          UH, 
          [00:00:01]
SPECIAL JOINT WORK SESSION OF THE 
          [Town Council Special Joint Work Session on March 18, 2024.]
FRONT ROYAL TOWN COUNCIL AND THE FRONT ROYAL PLANNING COMMISSION TO ORDER. 
          MS. PRESLEY, CAN WE DO A ROLL CALL FOR BOTH PLANNING COMMISSION AND TOWN COUNCIL PLANNING COMMISSION? CHAIRMAN DANIEL WELLS HERE, VICE CHAIRMAN CONNIE MARNER. 
          HERE. 
          MEMBER GLEN WOOD HERE. 
          AND YOU, AND YOU HAVE TO STATE AND YOU HAVE TO STATE THE YOU, WHICH ONE YOU'RE ON TONIGHT. 
          UH, I'LL BE ON THE, UH, TOWN COUNCIL TONIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MEMBER MICHAEL WILLIAMS. HERE. 
          MEMBER BRIAN MATHEY. 
          HERE. 
          TOWN COUNCIL. 
          MAYOR COCKRELL. 
          HERE. 
          VICE MAYOR. 
          SEA LOCK HERE. 
          COUNCILMAN INGRAM? HERE. 
          COUNCILWOMAN MORRIS IS ABSENT. 
          COUNCILMAN RAPPAPORT? HERE. 
          COUNCILWOMAN D DEMON PAYNE HERE. 
          AND COUNCILMAN WOOD HERE. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, THANK YOU. 
          AND THANKS TO EVERYBODY FOR TAKING TIME TO COME OUT TONIGHT. 
          UM, THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN ON, UH, ON OUR RADAR TO DO THIS, SO THIS WAS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL OF US TO GET TOGETHER. 
          UM, I BELIEVE SUMMIT. 
          YOU GUYS ARE, ARE YOU GUYS GONNA LEAD THIS CHARGE NEXT OR, OKAY. 
          WE WILL LET YOU COME ON UP HERE. 
          AND I'LL GET THIS, I'LL GET THIS LOVELY LITTLE LEC TURN FOR YOU. 
          PERFECT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND WE ALSO HAVE THIS, I MEAN, YEAH, THAT'S ALSO THERE. 
          AND I ALWAYS HATE IT BECAUSE THE CAMERA CAN'T SEE IT, BUT THAT'S, IT'S OKAY. 
          IT'S ALL ON THE, UH, WEBSITE. 
          OKAY. 
          READY? UHHUH. 
          . 
          GOOD EVENING EVERYONE. 
          MAYOR COCKRELL, MEMBERS OF TOWN COUNCIL AND PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          UM, IT'S NICE TO SEE. 
          SO NEW FACES AND FAMILIAR FACES. 
          SOME FAMILIAR FACES IN NEW ROLES. 
          MY NAME'S ANN DARBY. 
          I'M THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT CHAIR FOR SUMMIT DESIGN AND ENGINEERING. 
          I'VE BEEN IN AND OUT OF FRONT ROYAL FOR THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS WORKING ON THE ZONING, EXCUSE ME, WORKING ALSO ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND NOW ON THE ZONING AND SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE REWRITES. 
          UM, I'M GONNA GIVE AN AN OVERVIEW THIS EVENING, AND I'M GONNA START WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. 
          IT'S GONNA SOUND TO SOME OF YOU VERY REDUNDANT, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, UM, ALWAYS HARKING BACK TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND TO THE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION THAT WAS DONE TO MAKE THAT PLAN. 
          AND SO TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE STAYING FAITHFUL IN ONE PROCESS. 
          SO THERE ARE TWO OVERARCHING REASONS TO UPDATE THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE. 
          THE FIRST IS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. 
          IT'S THE, UH, BEST WAY THAT ANY LOCALITY HAS TO IMPLEMENT. 
          THE COMP COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS TO IMP, UH, UPDATE THE ZONING ORDINANCES, MAKE SURE THAT THE ZONING DISTRICTS MATCH THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP IN THE PLAN. 
          AND THE SECOND, AND NOT NECESSARILY IN THAT ORDER, IS TO REMOVE UNNECESSARY OBSTACLES TO DEVELOPMENT AND MAKE SURE THAT THE ORDINANCE IS IN LINE WITH STATE CODE AND TO CLARIFY RULES, FOR EXAMPLE, RULES OF TOWN COUNCIL, RULES OF PLANNING COMMISSION, RULES OF STAFF, AND THE PROCESSES. 
          SO THE INTENT TODAY IS NOT TO GET MIRED INTO DETAILS, AND IT IS NOT TO TACKLE NEW TOPICS THAT WE MAY WANT TO ADDRESS DOWN THE LINE SOME SOMEDAY. 
          BUT TO JUST UPDATE YOU ON THE PROCESS, TALK ABOUT, UM, WHAT, HOW FAR WE'VE GOTTEN. 
          I'LL GIVE YOU AN OVERVIEW OF THE SCHEDULE, AND THEN THERE'S SOME SPECIFIC TOPICS THAT I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THAT WE WANNA GET FEEDBACK FROM YOU ON SO THAT WE CAN INCORPORATE IT IN THE WORK AS WE GO FORWARD. 
          SO MANY OF YOU ARE HERE AND MANY OF YOU WERE PARTICIPATING AND OBSERVING. 
          SO IN 2021, WE STARTED THIS PROCESS. 
          WE BEGAN IN THE SUMMER OF 2021 TO START THE UPDATE OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. 
          AT THAT TIME, WE DID PUBLIC INPUTS, PROCESSES, OPEN HOUSES, AND A WEBSITE. 
          I'LL HAVE ANOTHER SLIDE ON DETAILS OF THAT. 
          AT THAT TIME, IN THAT PROCESS, WE DID A FUTURE LAND USE CHARETTE. 
          I KNOW A LOT OF YOU CAME TO THAT, AND I HAVE ANOTHER SLIDE ON THAT. 
          UM, AND THEN WE HAD THE, UH, DRAFT, A COMP PLAN THAT WAS OUT FOR PUBLIC INPUT AND FOR INPUT BY THESE BODIES. 
          AND THAT WAS ADOPTED IN MAY, 2023. 
          WE KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE, AND WE KNEW THAT WE DIDN'T WANNA WAIT UNTIL THE END OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PROCESS TO START THE ZONING ORDINANCE REWRITE, BECAUSE SO OFTEN THERE, THERE ARE TI YOU KNOW, THERE'S PUBLIC INPUT, THERE ARE CHANGES, THERE'S CONVERSATIONS. 
          SO WE DIDN'T WANNA HOLD UP ONE PROCESS, UH, FOR THE OTHER. 
          SO YOU SEE AT THE TOP OF THIS LINE, WE HAVE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TIMELINE. 
          IT'S VERY LEAST. 
          UH, AND THEN AGAIN, WE STARTED AS ANY ORDINANCE REWRITE IN THE FALL WINTER OF 2022, WE CREATED A NEW TABLE OF CONTENTS BECAUSE, AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, WORKING WITH LOCALITIES OR OBSERVING OTHER LOCALITIES ACROSS THE STATE FROM ROYAL ORDINANCE ZONING ORDINANCE, LIKE SO MANY, THE MAJORITY OF OTHER VIRGINIA ZONING ORDINANCES WAS FIRST ADOPTED IN THE SIXTIES AND THEN ADDED ONTO AND AMENDED FOR DECADE. 
          AND, AND ANYBODY WHO'S WORKED WITH A DOCUMENT KNOWS THAT OVER TIME, THAT MAKES IT MORE AND MORE CONFUSING AND CONVOLUTED AND LONG. 
          AND, UM, SO WE CREATED AN ENTIRELY NEW TABLE 
          [00:05:01]
OF CONTENT, AND THAT WAS APPROVED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN SPRING OF 2023. 
          AND OUR STAFF HAS BEEN WORKING ON THAT. 
          AND I KNOW THAT A LOT OF OTHER THINGS HAVE BEEN GOING ON IN FRONT ROYAL, BUT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THAT PRETTY CONSISTENTLY. 
          AND THEN, UM, WE WILL HAVE THIS MEETING, GET SOME INPUT, AND THEN THIS SUMMER OF THIS YEAR, WE'LL BRING BACK TO YOU A DRAFT, HAVE MORE CONVERSATION, HAVE PUBLIC MEETINGS ABOUT THAT. 
          AND THEN IDEALLY IN THE FALL OF 2024, WE WILL HAVE A NEW ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          THAT'S A OVERSIMPLIFIED TIMELINE, , JUST TO GIVE EVERYONE AN IDEA. 
          UM, BUT AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THAT, NO, I'LL SAY THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PROCESS, IS THE PUBLIC INPUT. 
          SO WE STARTED THAT IN THE SUMMER OF 2020. 
          AS I SAID, WE JUST CREATED A WEBSITE. 
          WELL, WE FIRST DID A JOINT WORK SESSION TO KICK OFF. 
          WE CREATED A WEBSITE AND THAT IT WAS TO BE AND WAS THE, THE INFORMATION HUB THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE PROCESS. 
          WE, THROUGH THAT WEBSITE, HAD, UM, A WEBSITE, UH, EXCUSE ME, HAD A INTERACTIVE MAP WHERE PEOPLE COULD ADD, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A DANGEROUS INTERSECTION. 
          THIS IS MY FAVORITE PLACE IN TOWN. 
          HAVE GEOGRAPHICALLY BASED INPUT. 
          WE COLLECTED VISION STATEMENTS FROM THAT WEBSITE. 
          AND THEN THE QR CODE, YOU SEE, UM, WAS TO THE SURVEY. 
          IT WAS ALL OVER THE PLACE. 
          WE EVEN HAD, YOU PROBABLY REMEMBER SEEING LITTLE BUSINESS CARDS THROUGHOUT BUSINESSES DOWNTOWN THAT HAD, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN'S FUTURE NEEDS, YOUR INPUT ON ONE SIDE AND A QR CODE WITH A LINK TO THE WEBSITE AND THE SURVEY ON THE OTHER SIDE. 
          SO, TRIED REALLY HARD TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT. 
          AND THAT WASN'T ON THE SLIDE, BUT WE HAD, UM, INPUT SESSIONS. 
          WE HAD KICKOFF SESSIONS. 
          IT WAS DURING COVID, THE FALL, THE COLD FALL, AND THE EARLY DARK NIGHTS OF  2021, WHERE WE HAD A, A BONFIRE AND SOME GAS HEATERS AND TOWN SQUARE. 
          AND PEOPLE CAME BY AND WE TALKED ABOUT, UM, THE PLAN AND WHAT IT WAS GONNA MEAN AND HOW PEOPLE COULD BE INVOLVED. 
          AT THE END OF THAT PROCESS, WE CREATED A SURVEY RESULTS AND A PUBLIC PARTICIPATION RESULTS SUMMARY THAT AGAIN, WENT ON THE WEBSITE. 
          AND EV AS, UM, AS I'M REITERATING NOW, WE REITERATED THROUGH THE PROCESS THAT WE REALLY WANTED TO HEAR PEOPLE'S FEEDBACK AND FROM COMMUNITY RESIDENTS ABOUT WHAT THE VISION FOR THE TOWN WAS. 
          FROM THAT, THE NEXT STEP WE CREATED A DRAFT FUTURE LAND USE FOR THOSE. 
          DON'T, DON'T ANYONE, UH, FREAK OUT ABOUT THIS BECAUSE , THIS IS THE ORIGINAL BEFORE THE CHARETTES AND THE FEEDBACK FUTURE LAND USE MAP, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE INVOLVED, YOU KNOW THAT CERTAIN PARTS CHANGE BACK AND FORTH MANY, MANY TIMES. 
          SO, BUT WE CREATED FUTURE LAND USE, UH, CATEGORIES AND A FUTURE LAND USE MAP. 
          AGAIN, ALL OF THESE CATEGORIES HAD A, A CHARACTER THAT'S JUST A SHORT DESCRIPTION, BUT THAT'S A FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORY CHARACTER. 
          WE HAD, THIS IS A CHARETTE THAT WE HAD A PRESENTATION, A LOT OF PEOPLE JOINED. 
          THERE WERE MAPS, THERE WERE ALSO, THERE WERE LARGE MAPS, AND THEN THERE WERE 11 BY 17 MAPS THAT PEOPLE COULD TAKE HOME. 
          THERE WAS A LOT OF CONVERSATION. 
          UH, LATER IN THAT SAME MONTH, WE HAD OPEN HOUSES, AND THAT WAS IN THE LOBBY OF TOWN HALL WHERE PEOPLE WERE INVITED TO, TO DRAW ON. 
          THAT'S YOU, THAT'S BREEZE. 
          OH, THERE YOU GO. 
          I WAS THERE. 
          I WAS, I WAS AT ALL OF THOSE. 
          BUT I'M LIKE, BRUCE, THAT'S YOU. 
          YEAH, I RECOGNIZE THEY HAD PERFECT SOUNDS. 
          THERE SOME COMMON TEAMS. A LOT OF PEOPLE GAVE INPUT TO THIS. 
          UM, BUT AGAIN, THOSE ALSO, WE HAD CHARACTER AREAS YOU CAN SEE HERE ON, ON THESE POSTERS THAT EXPLAINED WHAT THE FUTURE LAND USE WAS AND TALKED ABOUT, UH, TRANSPORTATION ISSUES, DANGEROUS INTERSECTIONS, WHERE, UH, INTERVENTIONS WERE NEEDED AND ALL OF THAT, AND FORMED THE FINAL FUTURE LAND USE MAP. 
          THERE ARE OTHER MAPS IN THE COMP PLAN, BUT FOR, FOR THE ZONING DISCUSSION, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE LAND USE. 
          SO WHY, WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THIS AHEAD OF ZONING? WELL, AGAIN, THAT'S THE TOOL. 
          ZONING IS THE TOOL THAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ALLOWS LOCALITIES TO ENACT THAT CAN SHAPE THE CHARACTER OF LAND OVER TIME AS DEVELOPMENT OCCURS. 
          SO AGAIN, IT'S THE PRIMARY TOOL. 
          IT GUIDES THE CHARACTER OF EACH AREA. 
          AND THEN ZONING. 
          I OFTEN SAY THAT IF YOUR VISION AS A STRAIGHT SMILE, THEN ZONING ARE YOUR BRACES. 
          SO YOU PUT THEM ON AND OVER TIME, AS IT GROWS, IT'S GONNA GROW INTO THAT SHAPE. 
          SO THE OTHER REASON THAT FRONT ROYAL CHOSE TO UPDATE THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, UM, WAS AGAIN, THAT IT, THE FIRST ONE WAS, WE JUST LOOKED AT IT THIS EVENING. 
          FIRST ONE WAS ADOPTED IN 1960. 
          IT WAS QUITE, UH, SLIM, A SLIM VOLUME. 
          IT DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF DETAIL. 
          OVER TIME, UH, THAT HAS GROWN MORE, UM, MORE DISTRICTS WERE ADDED, MORE PROCESSES WERE ADDED, ET CETERA. 
          AND IN SOME WAYS THAT MADE IT BETTER. 
          IN SOME WAYS IT MADE IT A LITTLE HARDER TO UNDERSTAND. 
          SO THE EXISTING ORDINANCE, AS MANY OF YOU WHO HAVE WORKED WITH IT, KNOW IT IS OFTEN CONFUSING AND CONTRADICTORY. 
          THERE ARE INFORMATIONAL 
          [00:10:01]
GAPS. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS ARE DEFINITIONS. 
          THERE ARE, UH, USES THAT PEOPLE WILL APPLY FOR. 
          THAT EXISTS NOW, THAT DIDN'T EXIST IN 1960. 
          AND SO WHEN SOMEBODY PAID SHOP, FOR EXAMPLE, I KNOW THAT THAT'S WHERE , I KNOW THAT THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT TONIGHT. 
          BUT FOR EXAMPLE, THAT DIDN'T EXIST IN 1960. 
          UM, SO HAVING DEFINITIONS THAT, THAT ARE APPROPRIATE TO LAND USES THAT WE SEE TODAY. 
          AND THEN ALSO HAVING DEFINITIONS THAT DON'T CONTRADICT EACH OTHER. 
          BECAUSE WHEN YOU ADD ON AN ADD ON AN ADD ON TO A ZONING ORDINANCE, WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT THERE ARE MULTIPLE DEFINITIONS FOR THE SAME THING. 
          AND THAT BECOMES VERY CONFUSING WHEN A STAFF IS TRYING TO APPROVE, UH, WRITE A ZONING, UH, LETTER OF APPROVAL, FOR EXAMPLE. 
          IT DOESN'T CLARIFY ROLE. 
          SO WHAT IS THE OFFICIAL ROLE THAT TOWN COUNCIL PLAYS IN A ZONING DECISION? SOME OF THAT OBVIOUSLY IS IN STATE CODE, BUT IT HELPS TO CLARIFY IT IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          WHAT IS PLANNING COMMISSION'S ROLE AND WHAT ARE STAFF'S ROLE THAT'S ON THE SURFACE? IT'S VERY BASIC. 
          IT GETS VERY NUANCED. 
          UM, AND AS EVERYONE KNOWS THAT YOU NEED AS CLEAR GUIDANCE AS POSSIBLE FROM THE ZONING ORDINANCE TO MAKE THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS WORK WELL. 
          SO WE ALSO WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE ZONING ORDINANCE IS IN LINE WITH BEST PRACTICES, AS IN HOW THINGS ARE DONE. 
          DON'T HAVE TO JUST, UH, EXPLAIN BEST PRACTICES, BUT ALSO STATE CODE AND IN GENERAL, THE ZONING ORDINANCE AS IT IS, IT DOESN'T GUIDE THE TOWN TOWARD THE COMMUNITY VISION. 
          SO FAR, AS I SAID, WE HAVE STARTED, WE STARTED BEFORE. 
          AS SOON AS THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP WAS APPROVED BY PLANNING COMMISSION, WE WENT AHEAD AND STARTED ON THE ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          AND WE STARTED WITH THE TABLE OF CONTENTS. 
          AGAIN, THAT WAS REVIEWED AND APPROVED BY THE PLANNING COMMISS IN THE SPRING OF 2023. 
          WE DID THAT BY LOOKING AT MULTIPLE OTHER VIRGINIA ZONING ORDINANCES AND MAKING SURE THAT WE HAD EVERYTHING THAT, UM, THAT A, A WORKING, A FUNCTIONING ZONING ORDINANCE HAD IN THERE. 
          AND THAT, THAT IT FOLLOWED A LOGICAL ORDER. 
          SO AGAIN, GENERAL ORGANIZATION WAS TAKEN CARE OF BY DOING THAT TABLE OF CONTENTS FIRST, SO THAT WE WERE ABLE TO SEE, BASICALLY IF YOU PICTURE, UM, YOU CREATING A BODY, WE CREATED THE BACKBONE FIRST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE COULD SEE, UM, WHERE WE WERE GOING AND HOW IT WAS GONNA STAND UP. 
          UM, WE BROUGHT OVER THEN ALL OF THE EFFECTIVE OR RELEVANT LANGUAGE FROM YOUR EXISTING ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE DRAFT, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DRAFT, IT'S GOING TO LOOK UNFAMILIAR AT FIRST. 
          BUT IF YOU'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE EXISTING ORDINANCE, YOU'LL SEE FAMILIAR LANGUAGE. 
          YOU WON'T SEE THE FAMILIAR LANGUAGE IN, IN PASSAGES THAT ARE CONFUSING. 
          . 
          UH, WE FILLED IN THE GAPS WHERE NECESSARY. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, I SAID THAT THERE WERE NO ROLES FOR, FOR STAFF. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, WE REFERENCED EITHER STATE CODE OR OTHER ZONING ORDINANCES THAT WORK WELL, OR SOME OF THAT WE MADE THE LANGUAGE, UM, UP SO THAT IT, THAT SOUNDS ARBITRARY. 
          IT WAS NOT ARBITRARY. 
          UH, GIVEN OUR KNOWLEDGE OF OTHER ZONING ORDINANCES, WE FILLED IN THOSE GAPS. 
          AND WE ALSO ADDED DISTINCT INTRODUCTORY SECTIONS OF WHY, IF YOU PICTURE THE ZONING ORDINANCE, IT SAYS, WHY DOES, WHY DOES THIS EXIST? WHAT IS THE PURPOSE? WELL, WE UPDATED THE PURPOSE BECAUSE THE PURPOSE, UM, THE THING THAT I THINK OF, UH, MOST OFTEN THAT'S EASIEST TO UNDERSTAND IS MOST ZONING ORDINANCE, UH, TALK ABOUT LIGHT AND AIR IN THE BEGINNING. 
          THAT CAME FROM THE SHORT WASTE FACTORY FIRES IN 1924 IN NEW YORK. 
          I MIGHT NOT HAVE THE EXACT RIGHT, RIGHT? SO, SO THERE WERE CERTAIN REASONS THAT THE ORIGINAL ZONING ORDINANCES WERE CREATED, AND WE HAVE DIFFERENT REASONS FOR IMPLEMENTING ZONING. 
          NOW, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH LIGHT AND AIR. 
          WE HAVE AIR CONDITIONING. 
          WE HAVE DIFFERENT TYPES OF FIRE TRUCKS, RIGHT? BUT WE HAVE OTHER PURPOSES. 
          SO ALL OF THAT IS GONNA BE, IS UPDATED. 
          IT'S IN THE DRAFT. 
          NOW, AGAIN, WE DEFINE THE ROLES OF COUNCIL PLANNING, COMMISSION AND STAFF. 
          WE REVIEWED FOR ALIGNMENT WITH STATE CODE AND NECESSARY REVISIONS FOR THE FIRST TIME. 
          AND YOU'LL SEE IN SUBSEQUENT SLIDES AT THE END, I WILL GO THROUGH REALLY WITH TWO MONITORS, YOUR STATE CODE AND YOUR DRAFT ZONING ORDINANCE, AND MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS IN ALIGNMENT. 
          SO WE'VE DONE THAT PRELIMINARY, BUT WE'LL MAKE SURE TO DO IT AT THE END. 
          AGAIN, WE'VE CONSOLIDATED DEFINITIONS TO ONE SECTION. 
          WE'VE REMOVED CONTRADICTIONS. 
          SO SOMETIMES YOU, UM, COMPARE JUST TWO DEFINITIONS AND ONE IS IMMINENTLY CLEARER THAN THE OTHER. 
          AND SO WE GENERALLY WENT WITH WHAT IS MORE CLEAR. 
          UM, WE WENT, SO ANYONE IS, DOESN'T NEED TO BE A, UM, A CONFUSING, HARD TO READ, UH, DOCUMENT. 
          IT NEEDS TO BE CLEAR, CONCISE, AND UNDERSTANDABLE TO EVERYONE WHO READS IT. 
          THAT'S ACTUALLY THE MOST, UM, TRANSPARENT THING THAT, THAT WE CAN DO. 
          WE REPLACED THE SIGN ORDINANCE THAT WAS THERE, AND I KNOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF ISSUES WITH THE SIGN ORDINANCE. 
          SO TO START OVER, WE REPLACED THAT WITH A MODEL SIGN ORDINANCE WRITTEN BY THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT, UH, EXCUSE ME, THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT ATTORNEYS OF VIRGINIA. 
          AND SO THEY DID A MODEL SIGN ORDINANCE. 
          AND MANY LOCALITIES HAVE BEEN, UH, USING THAT BECAUSE IT IS VERY CLEAR, CONCISE, CONCISE, CONTEMPORARY AND REFLECTIVE OF STATE COURT DECISIONS IN THE 
          [00:15:01]
PAST COUPLE OF YEARS. 
          VIRGINIA STATE COURT, WHAT'S THE LGAD? SORRY. 
          LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. 
          LOCAL GOVERNMENT ATTORNEYS OF VIRGINIA. 
          GEORGIA'S NODDING. 
          SO , UM, WE REPLACED THE FLOODPLAIN ORDINANCE WITH, UH, THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION AND RECREATION'S MODEL, FLOODPLAIN ORDINANCE, WHICH MEANS THAT THE ZONING ORDINANCE WILL BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH WHAT DCR, WHO IS THE AUTHORITY IN IN THAT ARENA, UH, ONCE EVERY LOCALITY TO DO. 
          AND AGAIN, WE REMOVED AMBIGUITIES IN VARIANCE AND STANDARD REVIEW PROCEDURES. 
          VARIANCE IS ANOTHER GOOD EXAMPLE. 
          STATE CODE DEFINES WHAT A VARIANCE IS. 
          VERY CLEARLY. 
          PEOPLE USE VARIANCE ALL OVER THE PLACE. 
          THEY USE IT IN TERMS OF HAVING ANY VARIANCE FROM THE ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          WELL, AGAIN, WE'RE MAKING SURE IT ALIGNS TO STATE CODE. 
          WE'RE USING THINGS LIKE VARIANCE IN THE RIGHT WAY. 
          WE CREATED A PRINCIPAL USE TABLE. 
          SO THAT'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF ZONING ORDINANCE HAVE HAVE IN IT, THAT IT'S JUST A TABLE THAT SAYS YOU, THIS IS A USE. 
          YOU COULD DO IT IN THIS, UH, DISTRICT AS A PRINCIPAL, PERMITTED PRINCIPAL USE THIS, OR AS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, SO ON AND SO FORTH. 
          SO THAT JUST HELPS PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE ZONING ORDINANCE BETTER. 
          ALL OF THE THINGS WE'RE DOING IS TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE NOT OPEN IT UP AND JUST BE IMMEDIATELY CONFUSED. 
          BUT THE OPPOSITE TO HAVE A, A STRONG GUIDE. 
          AGAIN, WE HAVE, WE HAVE STARTED TO MAKE REVISIONS TO ZONING DISTRICTS TO ALIGN TO EXISTING LOTTING PATTERNS AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. 
          SO THAT I THINK IS A VERY PLANNERY SENTENCE. 
          I'M GONNA BREAK IT DOWN. 
          SO AGAIN, THERE'S THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. 
          AND THAT IS WHERE COMMUNITY VISION AND ALL OF THAT INPUT SAYS THIS IS WHAT THIS AREA OF TOWN SHOULD LOOK LIKE IN THE FUTURE OF AFTER ALL THAT INPUT, RIGHT? SO WE HAVE A FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORY. 
          AND SO PART OF THAT IS CREATING LANGUAGE THAT SAYS, IF, IF THE LAND IS GONNA LOOK LIKE THIS VISION IN THE FUTURE, THIS IS WHAT THE SETBACK SHOULD BE FROM THE STREET. 
          PROBABLY THIS IS WHAT A PARKING LOT SIZE SHOULD BE. 
          THIS IS WHAT SCREENING SHOULD BE. 
          THIS IS WHAT LOT AREA COVERAGE RATIO SHOULD BE. 
          AND THEN THE OTHER THING IS EXISTING LOTTING PATTERNS. 
          AND THAT MEANS IT'S HARD TO BUILD IF YOU HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD, IT'S HARD TO BUILD INFILL THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. 
          SO MANY, MANY PEOPLE, UH, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE THAT GAVE FEEDBACK SAID, YOU KNOW, MOST OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, WE FEEL LIKE THEY'RE WORKING REALLY WELL. 
          WE DON'T WANT THEM TO CHANGE A LOT. 
          BUT THE ZONING ORDINANCE, BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN IN THE SIXTIES, IT FOR EXAMPLE, HAS A REQUIREMENT FOR A 20,000 SQUARE FOOT LOT WHEN MOST OF THE LOTS THAT ARE EXISTING IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD ARE 10,000 SQUARE FEET. 
          THAT'S JUST ONE EXAMPLE. 
          IT COULD BE SETBACK, IT COULD BE LOT COVERAGE. 
          UM, BUT SO IN THAT, IN CHANGING THOSE THINGS TO FIT THE EXISTING LAING PATTERN, WE'RE AGAIN, REMOVING AN UNNECESSARY BARRIER. 
          THIS WE'RE DOING THROUGH JIS ANALYSIS, IT'S NOT ARBITRARY. 
          WE'RE LOOKING AT THE PREVAILING LOT SIZE, THE PREVAILING SETBACK, THE PREVAILING LOT COVERAGE SO THAT WE'RE ABLE TO PRESERVE THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS IN FRONT RAIL THAT ARE WORKING WELL AND STILL, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THERE'S A VACANT LOT, HAVE A HOUSE THAT COULD BE BUILT THERE. 
          THE NEXT STEPS THOUGH, AND THEN ARE THEN TO COMPLETE THOSE REVISIONS TO THE, TO THE DISTRICTS. 
          AND AGAIN, THIS IS A BENCHMARK MEETING. 
          WE WANNA GET YOUR FEEDBACK, WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. 
          UM, BUT WE'LL CONTINUE THAT AND THEN INCORPORATE FEEDBACK FROM THIS WORK SESSION. 
          THERE ARE SOME TOPICS THAT WE WANNA DISCUSS. 
          AGAIN, I'LL DO THAT SECONDARY REVISION FOR ALIGNMENT WITH THE STATE CODE. 
          I'LL DO IT AT THE END JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING IS, UM, THAT EVERYTHING IS LEGAL ALIGNMENT. 
          WE'RE NOT MISSING ANYTHING AND WE'RE NOT GONNA GET IN TROUBLE WITH THE STATE. 
          UM, AND THEN WE WILL DO, AGAIN, WE'RE REWRITING THE ZONING ORDINANCE ENTIRELY, WHICH IS OUT OF THE SCOPE OF WHAT WE FIRST DECIDED  TO DO. 
          BUT THROUGH DISCUSSIONS, WE DECIDED THAT THAT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO. 
          BUT FOR THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE, WE'RE JUST GONNA DO TARGETED REVISIONS, VERY SPECIFIC CHANGING, UM, SIZE OF BLOCK FOR, YOU KNOW, BLOCK FRONTAGE MINIMUMS, FOR EXAMPLE. 
          UM, SO THAT, THAT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION AND I'M PRETTY SURE I USE SOME, UM, PLANNERY LANGUAGE, WHICH I ALWAYS NEED TO BE CALLED ON. 
          SO IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. 
          UM, AND THEN AGAIN, TODAY'S DISCUSSION TOPICS. 
          THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT I UNDERSTAND ARE COMING UP IN CONVERSATION AND CONVERSATION WITH THESE BODIES, AND WE WANNA GET YOUR FEEDBACK SO WE KNOW HOW TO INCORPORATE THAT BECAUSE SOME OF THESE ARE, UH, COMMON TO LOCALITIES ACROSS VIRGINIA. 
          UM, AND THEN SOME OF THEM ARE SPECIFIC TO FRONT ROYAL. 
          AND WE WANNA KNOW HOW YOU THINK THAT WE SHOULD PROCEED WITH THE DRAFT LANGUAGE SO THAT BY THE TIME WE BRING YOU A DRAFT ZONING 
          [00:20:01]
ORDINANCE, IT'S FAMILIAR TO YOU. 
          IT'S IN ALIGNMENT WITH WHAT YOU THINK SHOULD BE HAPPENING, AND YOU CAN THEN GIVE STRAIGHT LINED FEEDBACK. 
          FIRST. 
          BEFORE WE GET INTO THESE THOUGH, EXCUSE ME, DOES ANYBODY HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROCESS OR COMMENTS ABOUT THE PROCESS AS A WHOLE? YES, SIR. 
          I HAVE A QUESTION. 
          YOU REPLACED THE FPO WITH THE DCR MODEL. 
          FLOODPLAIN ORDINANCE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          WHY DCR PROVIDES A MODEL FLOODPLAIN ORDINANCE. 
          AND, AND THEY DO THAT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE LOCALITIES BECAUSE THEY'RE CHANGING THEIR REQUIREMENTS. 
          SO, UM, THEY REQUIRE THAT ANY LOCALITY IS, UM, HAS STANDARDS THAT ARE WHAT DCR WHAT THEY DETERMINE ARE THE STANDARDS. 
          SO IF YOU HAVE AN OUTDATED STANDARD, YOU COULD EITHER GO THROUGH AND CHANGE ALL OF, UM, THE REQUIREMENTS IN A VERY, LIKE WITH TWEEZERS, BASICALLY, OR YOU CAN DO WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SUGGEST, WHICH MOST LOCALITIES IN VIRGINIA DO IS REPLACE THE FLOOD PLAIN OWNERS WITH THE ONE THAT DCR CREATES. 
          ONCE , THAT AND THE, UH, FEMA'S FLOOD PLAIN, AS I NOTICED ON THE MAP HERE, WHAT YOU, WHAT IS LISTED IS DOES NOT ENCOMPASS FEMA'S FLOODPLAIN. 
          SO FEMA CREATES WHAT THE FLOODPLAINS ARE, AND THAT'S NATIONAL, RIGHT? THE STATE CREATES THE PROCESS, OKAY. 
          BY WHICH YOU NEED TO APPROVE DEVELOPMENT IN THOSE AREAS. 
          SO ONE'S A MAP, ONE'S A PROCESS, RIGHT? SO IF YOU HAVE A PROPERTY WITHIN THE FEMA FLOODPLAIN MM-HMM, , IT'S INCUMBENT ON YOU TO PURCHASE FLOOD INSURANCE IS A REQUIREMENT YES. 
          OF HAVING PROPERTY WITHIN, YES. 
          BUT THAT'S ACTUALLY NOT RELATED TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          THAT'S WHY I'M SURE. 
          SURE. 
          SO THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. 
          YES. 
          SO AGAIN, FEMA AS A NATIONAL AGENCY DETERMINES WHAT IS IN THE FLOOD PLAIN AND WHAT ISN'T. 
          UM, THEY ACTUALLY WORK WITH A LOCALITY. 
          THEY PUT A DRAFT MAP OUT AND FRONT ROYAL HAS DONE THIS. 
          UM, FEMA GIVES A DRAFT MAP AND THEY SAY, WE'VE LOOKED AT THE ENTIRE COUNTRY AND THIS IS WHAT WE THINK GIVEN CHANGES IN ELEVATION GIVEN, GIVEN SINKING CAST AREAS, ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT THINGS, RIGHT? THEY GIVE A A DRAFT MAP, THE LOCALITY, UM, HAS A WINDOW IN WHICH THEY CAN DISPUTE THAT. 
          LIKE, HEY, I LIVE HERE. 
          AND I DON'T THINK THAT THAT IS A, A CORRECT FLOOD CLAIM DELINEATION. 
          AND THAT CAN GO BACK AND FORTH, RIGHT? SO THAT, UM, THERE'S A PROCESS THROUGH WHICH THE LOCALITY OF THE NATIONAL AGENCY AGREE. 
          AND THEN DCR AS A STATE AGENCY DETERMINES HOW DEVELOPMENT HAPPENS AND HOW, UM, APPROVALS YOU HAVE TO, IF YOU'RE DEVELOPING IN A, IN A FLOODPLAIN, YOU DON'T JUST NEED YOUR LOCAL ZONING ORDINANCE APPROVAL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED STATE APPROVAL AS WELL. 
          DOES THAT, AM I ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION? IT IS HELPING. 
          OKAY. 
          UM, IT IS A CON IT'S A COMPLICATED PROCESS. 
          UM, BUT THAT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE , THEY KIND OF THROW LOCALITIES A BONE AND SAY, THIS IS A COMPLICATED PROCESS. 
          THIS IS WHAT WE WANT YOU TO DO, PLEASE PUT THIS IN YOUR CODE. 
          AND THEREFORE THEY'RE ACTUALLY TRYING TO MAKE IT EASIER. 
          SO THEN COULD THE TOWN DISPUTE FEMA'S FLOODPLAIN MAP? YES. 
          BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT PROCESS. 
          SO THEY'RE TWO DIFFERENT PROCESSES, RIGHT? ONE THE MAP, ONE THE, THE DCR PROCESSES. 
          BUT YES, IF, IF FEMA PUT OUT, AND LAUREN, YOU MAY WANT TO ANSWER THIS A LITTLE BIT. 
          SO OUR MAP FOR FEMA, THEY WERE LAST LOOKED AT 30 YEARS AGO. 
          THEY, THE STATE HAS, I'M SORRY, FEMA HAS STATED THEY ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT THIS AREA IN THE NEAR FUTURE TO UPDATE THESE. 
          SO WHEN THAT PROCESS STARTS TO HAPPEN, THERE IS AN APPEAL MECHANISM. 
          UM, IF WE AGREE OR DISAGREE, WE CAN APPEAL IT TO THEM. 
          I DON'T THINK, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT'S A SHORT PROCESS, BUT THERE IS A WAY TO DO IT. 
          BUT FOR US, THE REASON WHY WE, WE BROUGHT THIS IN IS OUR CODE HASN'T BEEN UPDATED. 
          THE FLOOD RIGHT. 
          ORDINANCE HASN'T BEEN UPDATED. 
          SO THIS IS JUST US BRINGING IT IN LINE WITH WHAT THE STATE'S REQUIRING, RIGHT. 
          AS THROUGH OUR DEPARTMENT, UM, WHEN WE GET AN APPLICATION, WE REVIEW IT AND WE HOLD THEM TO STANDARDS. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO I'M UNDERSTANDING THAT THE LAST TIME THIS WAS UPDATED HAS BEEN A COUPLE OF YEARS MORE. 
          YEAH. 
          WE, WE ARE REWRITING TO PRESENT DAY AS FAR AS THE, UH, D R'S MODEL, FLOODPLAIN OVERVIEW ORDINANCE. 
          YES. 
          ORDINANCE, YES. 
          SO THAT WAY AS PEOPLE IN THE FUTURE SUBMIT PERMITS TO BUILD IN AN AREA THAT IS DESIGNATED AS A DCR FLOODPLAIN MM-HMM. 
          , WE CAN THEN PLANNING COMMISSION CAN SAY WHETHER THEY CAN DO WHATEVER 
          [00:25:01]
THEY'RE TRYING TO DO. 
          BUT IN THAT FLOODPLAIN EXACTLY, YOU CAN FEEL, YOU CAN FEEL CONFIDENT THAT IT'S UP TO DATE. 
          LIKE SO FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT NOW, IF SOMEONE, AGAIN, LAUREN, PLEASE STEP IN, BUT IF SOMEONE WERE TO, UM, SUBMIT AN APPLICATION TO DEVELOP IN A FLOODPLAIN AND YOU WERE TO REFERENCE STAFF, WERE TO REFERENCE THE WHAT'S IN THE EXISTING ZONING ORDINANCE, IT'S POSSIBLE THEN THAT THAT APPLICANT, IF YOU WERE APPROVED, THEY COULD GET DINGED BY THE STATE LATER BECAUSE OF SOME CHECKLIST OR SOME ITEM THAT WASN'T, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CAUGHT AT THE LOCAL LEVEL AND WASN'T, AM I SAYING THAT RIGHT? YES. 
          SO WE, WE WOULD, WE NEED TO CHECK THAT IT'S COMPLIANT WITH CURRENT STATE CODES, RIGHT? SO WE GET AN APPLICATION, WE'RE GETTING A, A, WHAT IS IT? THE BASE FLOOD ELEVATION CERTIFICATE. 
          WE REVIEW THAT. 
          WE MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE DOING IN THAT ZONE IS APPROPRIATE TO THE STATE STANDARDS. 
          FEMA SETS WHERE THE ZONE IS, AND THEN THE STATE TELLS US HOW WE REGULATE IT. 
          SHE SAID IT ACTUALLY BETTER THAN I SAID IT IN 10 MINUTES. 
          FEMA STATES WHERE IT IS, THE STATE TELLS YOU HOW TO REGULATE IT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          LAUREN. 
          DCR. 
          WHAT DOES THAT STAND FOR? THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION RECREATION. 
          YOU WOULD THINK THAT IT WOULD BE DEQ THAT SETS IT, BUT IT'S NOT. 
          IT'S DCR. 
          SO IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THE WAY, SO REWRITE THE ZONING AND THEN REVISIONS TO SUBDIVISION ORDINANCES. 
          THAT'S THE HIERARCHY OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO, WHAT'S YOU GUYS ARE GONNA BE WORKING ON IS REWRITE THE ZONING ORDINANCES AND THEN REVISIONS TO THE SUBDIVISION. 
          YES. 
          AND THE WAY, THE WAY IT, IT SORT OF, IT STARTED OUT TWO YEARS AGO, THE DIRECTIVE WAS TO AMEND BOTH THROUGH CONVERSATIONS WITH STAFF, THROUGH CONVERSATIONS, PRESENTATIONS WITH, WITH PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          WE DECIDED IT WAS BETTER ACTUALLY TO JUST START OVER WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE, WHICH MEANS THAT WE'RE STICKING TO JUST A MINOR REVISION OF THE SUBDIVISION. 
          AND STAFF, STAFF KNOWS THIS ISN'T WORKING. 
          THIS, THIS IS, UM, CAUSING ISSUES HERE. 
          SO THERE'S A LIST, WE'LL MAKE CHANGES THERE, BUT IT WON'T BE THIS SIGNIFICANT OVERHAUL THAT WE'RE DOING WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          HOW WOULD YOU BE INFORMED THAT FEMA HAS REZONED AREAS WITHIN THE TOWN? FEMA WILL COME COMMUNICATE. 
          THEY DO, UM, AUDITS. 
          OKAY. 
          OF LOCALITIES. 
          WE HAVEN'T BEEN AUDITED YET, KNOCK ON WOOD. 
          UM, BUT THEY DO PERFORM AUDITS. 
          OKAY. 
          LAST YEAR THEY, THEY MADE SOME CHANGE AND I AWARE THAT THEY HAVEN'T DONE A COMPREHENSIVE OKAY. 
          UM, SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE DOING IT LOCALITY BY, I HAVE ANOTHER CLIENT, I DON'T NORMALLY TALK ABOUT MY OTHER CLIENTS, BUT I HAVE ANOTHER CLIENT THAT'S JUST GOING THROUGH THE, JUST FINISH THIS PROCESS. 
          AND THEY WERE CONTACTED BY FEMA THROUGH DCR. 
          SO WE'RE TALKING TO A DCR REP, BUT IT'S FROM FEMA. 
          FEMA HAS UPDATED THE FLOOD MAP. 
          PLEASE TAKE A LOOK AT IT. 
          YOU HAVE THIS WINDOW TO APPEAL IF YOU THINK SOMETHING'S WRONG. 
          I, I THINK THAT THE LOCAL, MY OTHER CLIENT, FOR EXAMPLE, I THINK IT'S GONNA BE VERY SIMILAR TO OTHER LOCALITIES IN THAT THEY SAID, NOPE, IT LOOKS RIGHT. 
          THANK YOU. 
           AND I, I DON'T THINK THAT, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE OFTEN VERY WRONG. 
          AND THEN PROBABLY THERE'S A SCIENTIFIC REASON. 
          IF YOU THINK THAT THEY'RE WRONG AND THEY'RE GONNA SAY, OKAY, THEN, YOU KNOW, NATIONWIDE MODEL DIDN'T CATCH THAT. 
          WE'RE HAPPY TO AMEND ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR HER BEFORE WE MOVE ON? GOOD. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY, GREAT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          UM, DO YOU WANNA SHARE THIS OR DO YOU, OKAY. 
          THAT LOOKS DIFFERENT THAN OURS. 
          LIKE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR. 
          YES. 
          I'M GONNA LET YOU TAKE A AROUND, TAKE NOTES FOR YOU. 
          HOW ABOUT THAT? SOUNDS GOOD. 
          ALRIGHT. 
          SO FOR THESE DISCUSSION TOPICS, THESE ARE JUST A FEW ITEMS THAT JUST OVER THE LAST TWO, THREE YEARS KIND OF BEEN POPPING UP IN CONVERSATION. 
          SO AS WE MOVE INTO THE NEXT SECTION WHERE WE'RE MAKING AMENDMENTS AND, AND WRITING PERFORMANCE STANDARDS IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, I WANTED TO GET SOME FEEDBACK, ESPECIALLY FROM COUNCIL, TO PROVIDE DIRECTION PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE? UM, AS FAR AS REGULATIONS GO? UM, SO I THOUGHT ONE OF THE TOPICS THAT FREQUENTLY COMES UP IS VAPE SHOPS. 
          UM, ANOTHER ONE IS I'D LOVE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT REMOVING MINIMUM PARKING STANDARDS. 
          UM, THERE'S BEEN A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, AFFORDABLE HOUSING MECHANISMS. WE PUT IT AS GOAL IN THE COMP PLAN THAT THEY WOULD BE BY, RIGHT. 
          UH, THERE'S BEEN SOME ACTIVITY IN STATE LEGISLATURE, SO I THOUGHT WE'D HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT. 
          AND THEN ENTRANCE CORRIDORS 
          [00:30:01]
AND LOOKING AT, UM, I REMEMBER FROM YOUR RETREAT SOME OF YOUR BEAUTIFICATION GOALS. 
          I THOUGHT THAT MAY PLAY INTO SOME OF THE, UM, REGULATIONS IN THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR. 
          I, SO HOW FAR DOES IT GO INTO USAGE? SO I KNOW ZONING, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL, RESIDENTIAL OR WHATEVER, BUT LIKE WHEN YOU'RE GETTING INTO, UM, THE TYPES OF BUSINESSES, WE CAN STILL USE ZONING. 
          CAN WE, COULD WE, FOR INSTANCE, I WAS WONDERING, AND PLEASE, EVERYBODY'S GONNA BE LIKE, WHAT? I KNOW THIS IS CRAZY, BUT WE'RE HAVING ISSUES WITH TENT CITIES. 
          OKAY. 
          COULD WE SAY THAT ZONING, BECAUSE OF ZONING, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED IN CERTAIN SPOTS. 
          WHEN YOU SAY TENT CITIES, LIKE HOMELESSNESS. 
          HOMELESSNESS. 
          SO THAT COULD BE CONSTRUED CAMPING IS A 10. 
          AND IF THE TOWN HAS IN THE ORDINANCE AGAINST CAMPING, BUT THEN THE TOWN, HERE'S THE THING, IF THEY'RE TRESPASSING, THEY'RE TRESPASSING. 
          THAT'S, THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE. 
          IT'S GENERALLY NOT A PERMITTED USE IN THE FIRST PLACE. 
          THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO GET AT. 
          ZONING AND THEN USAGE OF THE AREA. 
          AND JUST LIKE WITH SHORT TERM, ALSO SHORT TERM RENTALS IS ANOTHER ONE THAT WE'VE HAD TO, TO TACKLE. 
          AND WHICH I WOULD SAY IS A USAGE AND A ZONING MAYBE AS WELL. 
          SO ACTUALLY I, IT, I WOULD SEPARATE IT IN THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, IN THE SHORT TERM RENTAL. 
          SO I KNOW THAT YOU PERMIT ADUS IN MANY, UM, AREAS. 
          THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE PERMITTING THAT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT TO BE USED AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL AT ALL. 
          SO MANY LOCALITIES WILL HAVE TWO AND, AND YOU'VE GOT ADUS IN YOUR EXISTING ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          SO, UM, MOST DON'T. 
          SO THEY'LL END UP HAVING A, AN A DU ORDINANCE AND THEN A SHORT TERM RENTAL ORDINANCE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND YES, THEY ARE, THEY'RE CERTAINLY CONFLATED IN, NOT, CONFLATED IS NOT THE RIGHT WORD. 
          THEY'RE ASSOCIATED IN, IN PEOPLE'S MINDS. 
          UM, BUT THERE'S A WAY TO CREATE SPECIFICITY IN THE ORDINANCES. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, UM, A SHORT, SHORT-TERM RENTAL ORDINANCE OFTEN SAYS, YOU KNOW, THIS COULD BE USED AS, UM, AGAIN, I DO WANNA CLARIFY THOUGH, IF Y'ALL WANT TO, IF YOU DO WANNA WORK ON SHORT-TERM RENTALS, I WOULD PUT IT AS A SEPARATE ISSUE THAT GOES THROUGH ITS OWN PUBLIC PARTICIPATION PROCESS. 
          JUST BECAUSE WE DIDN'T ADDRESS THAT IN THE COMP PLAN PROCESS. 
          AND SO YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO SLIP IN SOMETHING THAT IS CONTROVERSIAL 'CAUSE IT COULD DERAIL THE WHOLE ZONING ORDINANCE . 
          UM, AND THAT, THAT'S TRUE OF A NUMBER OF TOPICS THAT ARE, ARE VERY TIMELY. 
          UM, BUT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS, BECAUSE THERE ARE HOUSING RECOMME, UH, RECOMMENDATIONS IN THE COMP PLAN, IT DOES RECOMMEND THAT THE, UH, ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS ARE PERMITTED. 
          AND I, I THINK PROBABLY IT RECOMMENDS MORE THAN THEY EXIST ARE EXISTING. 
          BUT FOR THE 10 CITIES, I THINK THE, THE SHORT ANSWER IN THIS SCOPE IS THAT THEY'RE NOT PERMITTED IN THE FIRST PLACE. 
          I MEAN, THAT'S NOT, I DON'T THINK THAT THE 10 CITIES WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD REGULATE. 
          THAT IF WE GET A COMPLAINT, IF SOMEBODY LIVING THERE, I MEAN, I CAN CERTAINLY GO AND I CAN OBSERVE IT FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY. 
          I CAN, I WOULD THEN REPORT IT TO THE POLICE IF, IF THEY'RE TRESPASSING, IF THEY'RE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY, UM, AND THEY'RE NOT WANTED THERE, THAT'S, THAT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT ISSUE THAN WHETHER OR NOT THAT WE'RE BRINGING UP. 
          BUT THIS IS OFF TOPIC, BUT SINCE YOU BROUGHT IT UP, 'CAUSE AGAIN, I'VE BEEN GETTING A LOT OF INPUT OVER THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS MYSELF, UM, IS, UM, DOES IT HAVE TO BE THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY THAT MAKES THE COMPLAINT? MM-HMM. 
          OKAY. 
          I I WAS JUST CURIOUS 'CAUSE I, YEAH. 
          'CAUSE THERE 10 10 CITY AND THE SEVEN BEHIND THE SEVEN 11 IS NOT, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT, THAT'S NOT A SPACE FOR CAMPING. 
          CORRECT. 
          AS, AS, AS , THE ZONING, A POTENTIAL ZONING FIX COULD BE, WE LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, AS AN ACCESSORY USE TO CHURCH LIKE BUYRIGHT, DO WE ALLOW, UM, LIKE A HOMELESS SHELTER OR I MEAN, WE CAN DEFINE THESE THINGS IN OUR ORDINANCE AND THEN WE CAN ALLOW THEM IN CERTAIN DISTRICTS, WE CAN ALLOW THEM BY A SPECIAL USE DEPARTMENT THAT THERE'S WAYS TO HELP OR THERE'S WAYS TO REGULATE IT FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE, UM, TO KIND OF HELP THAT ISSUE. 
          AND THAT'S DEFINITELY A CONVERSATION THAT'S HAPPENING NATIONALLY. 
          YOU, YOU READ NATIONAL ZONING  NEWSLETTERS, UM, THAT, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT LOCALITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF ACCESSORY USE, NOT IN TERMS OF IF A USE IS NOT ALLOWED, THEN IT'S A REALLY A CODE ENFORCEMENT OR A LEGAL ISSUE. 
          UM, BUT IF THE GOAL IS TO ALLOW TO PERMIT TEMPORARY SHELTERS FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE ANOTHER PLACE TO LIVE, THEN THAT'S ANOTHER, IT'S ANOTHER ROUTE. 
          IT'S ANOTHER CONVERSATION. 
          I, I, AGAIN, 
          [00:35:01]
WOULD RECOMMEND NOT BRINGING IN SOMETHING THAT IS, SO IT'S A VERY, ALSO A VERY EMOTIONAL AND VERY TIMELY TOPIC. 
          SO I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND, UM, I, I THINK IT'S GREAT TO LOOK AT, I JUST WOULDN'T TRY TO MAKE IT BE PART OF THIS PROCESS. 
          I WOULD LIKE TO THAT OUT. 
          AND DON'T TAKE, I'M JUST ASKING THIS A FUN QUESTION. 
          IF NOT NOW, WHEN, SO IF, SO IF I, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. 
          SAME THING WITH SHORT TERM RENTALS. 
          'CAUSE I WAS ON COUNCIL WHEN THAT GOT BROUGHT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND IT WAS A LONG WEEKS AND WEEKS AND MEETINGS AND MEETINGS OF DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THAT. 
          BUT, SO I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IS THAT IF WE DON'T DO IT WHILE WE'RE REWRITING THE ZONING ORDINANCES OR, OR THINGS LIKE THAT, WHEN WOULD YOU BRING IT IN? SO, I MEAN, NOW'S A GREAT TIME TO ADDRESS ANYTHING, ESPECIALLY TONIGHT, BUT I JUST RIGHT, RIGHT. 
          SO, SO THERE MULTIPLE WAYS OF LOOKING AT THAT, RIGHT? MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO YES, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT SHOULD, THAT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED. 
          THERE'S, THERE ARE ALSO THINGS THAT, UM, THE PUBLIC WILL WANT TO WEIGH IN ON. 
          SURE. 
          UM, AND SINCE THIS ZONING ORDINANCE IS, YES, THERE WILL BE PUBLIC MEETINGS AND PUBLIC HEARINGS, BUT THE, FOR THE DRAFT ORDINANCE, IF, IF THERE'S A VERY EMOTIONAL TOPIC OR A VERY CONTENTIOUS TOPIC, IT, THE RISK IS THAT THEN IT DERAILS THE ENTIRE ZONING ORDINANCE REWRITE. 
          AND SO IF YOU WANTED TO, THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO ADDRESS IT, BUT ONE WAY MIGHT BE TO HOLD PUBLIC MEETINGS AND GET PUBLIC INPUT ABOUT A SPECIFIC ISSUE WHILE THIS IS STILL BEING DRAFTED. 
          IN WHICH CASE YOU COULD SAY, WE'VE DONE THIS, WE FEEL CONFIDENT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ITEM THAT'S GONNA BE IN THE DRAFT ORDINANCE. 
          AND WE JUST PUT IT IN THERE. 
          THE OTHER OPTION IS TO HAVE PUBLIC MEETINGS TO, UM, COLLECT PUBLIC INPUT ON THESE TOPICS. 
          UM, AND THEN JUST AMEND THE ZONING ORDINANCE BY, BY ORDINANCE AT A, A PLANNING COMMISSION HEARING, AND A, AND A TOWN COUNCIL HEARING. 
          SO FEELING LIKE THESE SHELTERS, I MEAN, I, I PERSONALLY THINK THE BEST WAY TO GO ABOUT IT WOULD BE THAT IT HAS ITS OWN SEPARATE PROCESS AND THEN ITS OWN PUBLIC HEARING. 
          BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT COULD BE AN ISSUE THAT WOULD GET THIS STUCK. 
          RIGHT. 
          I THINK THAT WOULD NO, I CAN APPRECIATE WHAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THERE. 
          AND WE DID THAT FOR, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE PART OF THE COMP CLAIM PROCESS, UM, I ALL DON'T WANNA BRING THE WORD UP, BUT I, I WILL BRING IT UP. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN PROCESS, DATA CENTERS CAME UP A COUPLE TIMES AND WE DECIDED LET'S NOT INCLUDE DATA CENTERS. 
          THEY CAN BE PERMITTED LATER DOWN THE ROAD BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT. 
          OR THE TOWN CAN CREATE AN ORDINANCE AFTER A PUBLIC PROCESS TO DECIDE HOW TO DEAL WITH DATA CENTERS. 
          UM, BUT IF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, HAD GIVEN INPUT TO THE COMP PLAN AND THEN SUDDENLY SAW THE DRAFT COMP PLAN AND IT WAS HAD DATA CENTERS IN IT, THAT WOULD, I THINK, PERHAPS VERY FAIRLY DERAIL THE PROCESS. 
          SO THAT'S JUST WHAT I'M TRYING TO, SPEAKING OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. 
          MM-HMM. 
           NUMBER ONE UP THERE. 
          . 
          JUST, JUST ADD, I MEAN, I KNOW, I KNOW WE'RE GONNA ALL DISCUSS IT HERE TONIGHT, BUT LIKE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT HAVE JUST TAKEN OVER AND LOTS OF OUR COMMUNITY BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, I MEAN, QUITE FRANKLY ON SOCIAL MEDIA, WE'RE BLAMED FOR IT. 
          YOU KNOW, HOW CAN THIS TOWN COUNCIL, THEY ARE LETTING ALL THE, AND THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE THAT THEY LITERALLY APPLY JUST LIKE ANY OTHER COMMERCIAL BUSINESS. 
          AND AS LONG AS THEY MEET ALL OF THE CRITERIA IN THIS APPLICATION, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE APPROVED. 
          BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE WE ARE SITTING UP HERE VOTING ONE WAY OR THE OTHER LIKELY WOULD WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. 
          RIGHT. 
          IT IN SOME WAYS THAT COMES DOWN TO DEFINITIONS AND WHY WE WANNA CLARIFY DEFINITION. 
          DOES A RETAIL STORE INCLUDE THE, JOHN, CAN YOU REMIND ME WHAT IS THE OFFICIAL TERM FOR VAPE ELECTRONICS, CIGARETTE DISPENSING DEVICE, SOMETHING LIKE THIS. 
          UM, UH, SO WE COULD SAY THAT WHEN WE CLARIFY, YOU KNOW, A RETAIL USE NOT TO INCLUDE VAPE SHOPS, AND THEN WE COULD SAY CERTAIN DISTRICTS BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT X, Y, Z PROVIDING THEY MEET CERTAIN CRITERIA. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND THEN YOU HAVE, AND THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT I DON'T THINK I PUT ON MY LIST, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE DONE IN THE DRAFT IS STANDARDIZED REFERENCES. 
          SO, SO THE ZONING ORDINANCE, UM, TALKS ABOUT SPECIAL PERMITS AND SPECIAL USE PERMITS SORT OF ALTERNATELY. 
          AND THAT'S A LITTLE BIT CONFUSING. 
          AND THEN IT ALSO, UM, THERE'S DRAFT LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT YOU'LL SEE THAT OUTLINES THE PROCESS BY WHICH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT WOULD BE APPROVED. 
          SO IN THAT VEIN, THAT IS ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING THAT WE COULD PUT IN THIS DRAFT THAT THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A CONTENTIOUS ISSUE. 
          THAT SEEMS TO BE VERY CONSISTENT FEEDBACK ACROSS THE BOARD THAT PEOPLE WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT VAPE SHOPS. 
          SO WHY DON'T WE PUT THAT OUT FOR DISCUSSION? WHAT IF WE YES. 
          [00:40:01]
SO I'M A SIMPLE MAN. 
          HOW LEGALLY CAN WE REGULATE THIS NONSENSE LEGALLY? I MEAN, I WOULD NO, WHAT WHAT I MEAN IS, I MEAN, LIKE, LIKE DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WE CAN ONLY HAVE TWO VAPE SHOP IN TOWN? NO, WELL, THEY'RE EXISTING NOW IS THE PROBLEM. 
          SO THE WAY WE WOULD REGULATE FUTURE VAPE SHOPS IS WE COULD LOOK AT WHEN SOMEBODY APPLIES FOR A, A RETAIL, RETAIL USE. 
          SO IF A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THEIR FLOOR AREA IS DEDICATED TO THE SALES OF TOBACCO PRODUCTS OR E-CIGARETTES, HOWEVER THEY WANT IT, HOWEVER WE DEFINE IT, IF IT'S OVER LIKE SAY 15%, THEN THEY CANNOT, THAT USE CANNOT EXIST WITHIN, YOU KNOW, A THOUSAND FEET OF A CHURCH, A SCHOOL, A DAYCARE. 
          YOU CAN, UM, REQUIRE SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THAT USE. 
          BUT WE, WE, WE HAVE SOME TYPE OF OF METRICS. 
          SO IT, I'VE SEEN IN OTHER JURISDICTION, YOU CAN'T REGULATE HOW CLOSE THEY GO TO A SCHOOL AREA. 
          YOU CAN REGULATE THE DISTANCE FROM YES. 
          AND THEN, UM, YOU CAN LOOK AT WE HOW CLOSE THEY ARE TO A ROAD. 
          WELL, TECHNICALLY YES, THAT'S A SETBACK. 
          YEP. 
          OH, SERIOUS. 
          I'M, I'M TRYING, I I DON'T, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE A JERK, BUT YOU KNOW, IF I AM, SO BE IT. 
          I I DON'T WANT ANY MORE VAPE SHOPS IN MY TOWN. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO HOW DO WE STOP THAT? SO SETBACKS THE PERCENTAGE. 
          SO, SO SUP BUT THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE. 
          BUT WE HAVE WHAT WE HAVE AND I GOT IT. 
          AND SO WE, UH, SIDE, SIDE COMMENT. 
          SO YOU'RE SAYING WHATEVER'S HERE NOW, THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO THE TERM GRANDFATHER, EVEN IF WE CHANGE OTHER, YOU KNOW? YEAH, YEAH. 
          SO WE CAN'T KICK OUT WHAT'S CURRENTLY HERE, BUT WE CAN POTENTIALLY REGULATE THE FUTURE. 
          ALTHOUGH THE TOWN WE'RE GETTING OUT THAT WE ARE NOT A VAPE SHOP FRIENDLY TOWN THAT, AND RIGHT NOW WE ARE A VAPE SHOP FRIENDLY TOWN. 
          BUT THERE, IT'S A RETAIL USE. 
          IT IS A RETAIL USE THERE. 
          I GOT THAT. 
          BUT, AND I, I GET ALL THAT. 
          I'M GONNA, I'M A CAPITALIST MAN. 
          BUT, BUT THAT BEING SAID, HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE STOP IT? SO, BECAUSE I, BECAUSE I, I WORK IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND I'M TIRED OF THE KIDS GREEN 'EM OUT IN MY BATHROOM. 
          SO THAT'S, IT'S THE PRODUCT I I HAVE BEEN WANTING TO ASK THAT. 
          IS IT THE SIGNAGE? IS IT THE, THE, WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE? IS IT THE NEON SIGNS OR IS IT THE ACTUAL VAPE PRODUCT ITSELF? WELL, SEVERAL THINGS. 
          I MEAN, IT LOOKS LIKE CHRISTMAS AROUND HERE, 20, UH, OKAY. 
          SIX SIGNS ARE 12 MONTHS. 
          YEAR COLORS FLESH UP. 
          IT'S JUST, IT'S A NEW, IT'S THE NEW SMOKING, IT'S THE NEW CIGARETTES. 
          I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE DID IN THE, I I'VE GOT, I'VE GOT, I'VE GOT SIX GRADERS IN OUR MIDDLE SCHOOL GREENING OUT EVERY OTHER DAY. 
          I'M SORRY THAT I'M NOT COOL ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT THAT IS, BUT OKAY. 
          THEY, THEY'RE PASSING OUT BECAUSE OF BECAUSE OF THAT. 
          OH NO, I'M SORRY. 
          WOW. 
          RIGHT. 
          OKAY. 
          HOW DO I, HOW DO I, HOW DO WE STOP IT? SO, AND FOR EXAMPLE, OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM, I THINK THEY'VE SPUN OVER 80,000, IT MIGHT BE MORE THAN THAT IN VAPE DETECTORS. 
          IN ALL THE BATHROOMS AND SECONDARY, MIDDLE, AND HIGH SCHOOL. 
          SO, SO IT'S A, IT'S A COMMUNITY ISSUE. 
          SO IT, BUT IT IS THE PRODUCT ITSELF. 
          IT'S NOT THAT WE DON'T LIKE THAT. 
          AND I GET THAT THAT'S ALSO AN ISSUE. 
          THE, IT'S NOT JUST THE AESTHETICS, IT'S THE PRODUCT TOO. 
          BUT THE AESTHETICS ARE BIG TOO. 
          OKAY. 
          LIKE WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE, IT'S, WELL, WHEN PEOPLE ARE COMING TO TOWN AND, YOU KNOW, FIRST THING YOU SEE IS SOMETHING WHERE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE MADE THE COMMENT RECENTLY THAT THEY HAD FRIENDS COMING TO TOWN AND THEY ROLLED OVER THE BRIDGE AND THOUGHT THERE WAS A PORN SHOP BECAUSE OF ALL THE LIGHTING AND STUFF. 
          AND THAT, AND THAT'S KIND OF EMBARRASSING, YOU KNOW? BUT JUST, YEAH. 
          SO EITHER DIRECTION, AND AGAIN, I I AGREE WITH LIKE NOT REGULATING BUSINESSES. 
          LIKE I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT ALSO, I GUESS MY THOUGHT IS TOO IS LIKE, UM, WE DON'T REALLY GIVE ANYBODY, WELL, WE NEED TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR OTHER BUSINESSES TO WANT TO COME TO. 
          RIGHT. 
          UM, AND A LOT OF OUR SPACES THAT MIGHT BE IN A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT OR WHERE SOMEBODY COULD GO OR, OR YOU KNOW, I'M, WHAT'S THE WORD? LIKE MORE DIVERSITY, UM, MORE WE CAN'T, I'M NOT SAYING YOU CAN CONTROL THAT IN THE ZONE ORDINANCE, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING AT TOO. 
          LIKE, DO WE REALLY NEED A VAPE SHOP ON EVERY CORNER? MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE WE NEED ON. 
          RIGHT. 
          HALF THE CORNER CALL STARBUCKS SYNDROME WHERE YOU YEAH, WELL THERE IS INSIDE IN A TARGET AND ACROSS THE STREET YOU HAVE A REAL STARBUCKS, AND THEN DOWN THE STREET YOU HAVE ANOTHER STARBUCKS. 
          AND THEN OVER HERE YOU HAVE ANOTHER STARBUCKS GIMME A CHICK-FIL-A I'M HAPPY BAY. 
          BUT THAT BEING SAID, EVEN SEVEN 11 YEAH. 
          THAT, WHAT CAN WE LEGALLY DO TO STOP MORE VAPE SHOPS FROM COMING INTO OUR, SO WE CAN ANSWER THAT PART OF IT. 
          SOME OF THAT IS OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          AND I, AND I DIDN'T MEAN TO BE LIGHT WHEN I NO, THAT'S OKAY. 
          I DON'T KNOW WHAT GREEN ON IS. 
          UM, NO, THAT'S OKAY. 
          I, I WORK WITH KIDS FOR A LIVING. 
          THAT'S OKAY. 
          SORRY. 
          SO, UM, WE, WE CAN, WE WILL, I WILL TRY TO, I'LL TAKE THIS AS A DIRECTIVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS LEGALLY, UM, WITHIN THE SCOPE OF A ZONING ORDINANCE TO LIMIT THAT. 
          BECAUSE I'VE WORKED ON THIS ON OTHER, UM, WE WILL, WE WILL DO SOME RESEARCH AND TRY TO FIGURE THAT OUT. 
          BUT IN TERMS OF ILLEGAL OBTAINING VAPE PRODUCTS FOR KIDS THAT, YOU 
          [00:45:01]
KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, BECAUSE THE NEXT THING, DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS, MARIJUANA, WHATEVER, AND, AND, AND DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS DOWN THE ROAD POLITICALLY, WHATEVER, THOSE ARE GONNA BE THE ENTRYWAY FOR EVERYBODY TO GETTING THEIR WEED. 
          YOU KNOW, AND THEN I'M GONNA, THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE THAT TO DEAL WITH. 
          SO, AND THEN OUR TOWNS ARE GONNA SMELL LIKE A SKUNK. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO THAT WAS ANOTHER QUESTION, AND WE DIDN'T PUT IT ON THE LIST, BUT IS THAT, UM, THE WILL OF THESE BODIES TO FIGURE OUT ALSO HOW TO LIMIT OR TO ADDRESS OR TO, BECAUSE THAT, THAT'S PROBABLY USE THAT WE'LL, UM, THAT'S GONNA BE UP. 
          DO YOU WANT ANY THAT'S ALSO, ACTUALLY IT IS UP TO A LOCALITY WHEN THIS WAS ALL BROUGHT OUT WHEN I WAS FIRST COUNSEL. 
          WELL, HE HAS TO SIGN IT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND IF HE DOESN'T SIGN IT, IT'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE. 
          WELL, I AGREE. 
          THE WHOLE POINT OF THE VAPE SHOP IS TO BE THE FUTURE, UH, SELLER OF MARIJUANA. 
          MARIJUANA WHEN IT GETS LEGALIZED. 
          THEY'RE BASED, THEY'RE MAKING THEIR FOOTPRINT, THEY'RE CREATING THEIR BRICK AND MORTAR BUSINESS, AND THEY'RE POSITION, POSITION IN THEIR, AND WE, WE DISCUSSED THAT AT A COUNCIL MEETING TO, FOR THE PUBLIC. 
          WE DID DISCUSS THAT. 
          MR. WELLES OR DANIEL, BECAUSE, BECAUSE PEOPLE NEED TO BE MORE AWARE OF WHERE SOME OF THIS INTENTION AND PURPOSE IS. 
          BECAUSE IT, IT ACTUALLY, THEY MORE STARTED POPPING UP RIGHT AFTER THINGS WERE CHANGING IN THE LEGISLATURE. 
          BUT MR. REPPORT, WELL, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, AND I'VE JUST ADDRESSED THIS BEFORE. 
          OKAY. 
          AND MR. WILLIAMS HAS ASKED, WHAT CAN YOU DO? AND OTHER JURISDICTIONS ARE DOING THESE THINGS. 
          THEY'RE MAPPING OUT TOBACCO AND E-CIGARETTE RETAIL AND SHOPS IN THEIR ACCOUNTS. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , THEY'RE REVIEWING MODELS FOR LICENSING FEES TO HELP FUND MONITORING AND ENFORCEMENT COSTS. 
          THREE, STRONG TOBACCO RETAILING, LICENSING, TRL POLICIES REDUCE UNDERAGE SALES TO USE. 
          FOUR, RESTRICT THE DENTIST, THE DENSITY OR CLUSTERING OF TOBACCO AND E-CIGARETTE RETAILERS. 
          FIVE, ESTABLISH A CAP ON THE NUMBER OF NEW LICENSES BASED ON POPULATION OR GEOGRAPHIC AREAS. 
          SIX, POLICIES FOR LICENSE REVOCATION OR SUSPENSION. 
          SEVEN, RESTRICT TOBACCO AND E-CIGARETTE RETAILERS FROM LOCATING NEAR SCHOOLS OR USE OF FACILITIES LIKE THESE CENTERS. 
          UH, EIGHT RESTRICT DRUG PARAPHERNALIA, ACCESSORIES LIKE BONGS, WATER PIPES BEING SOLD IN THESE RETAILERS AND SOME OF THESE. 
          SO THERE ARE THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO LOCALLY IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO. 
          AND SOME OF THESE ARE OUTSIDE OF THE PURVIEW OF ZONING. 
          LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE, OR LIKE THE CIGARETTE TAXES, THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT IS OUTSIDE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          BUT WE CAN LOOK AT THE REGULATING THE DENSITY, THE FLOOR AREA, THE LOCATION NEAR SCHOOLS. 
          WE CAN, SO I'M MAKING A NOTE TO, TO MR. I'M SORRY, YOUR COUNSEL ALLOWED IN SCHOOL. 
          OKAY. 
          THAT WAS A FAULT. 
          VAPING. 
          AND E-CIGARETTE IS CONSIDERED SMOKING. 
          SO JUST BY THE DEFINITION ALONE, THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED ON ANY PROPERTY. 
          RIGHT. 
          THAT IS REGULATED. 
          SO I DON'T KNOW HOW THERE'S AN ISSUE AT SCHOOL BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S HARDER TO DETECT BECAUSE OF THE, IT'S NOT ALLOWED ON THE PROPERTY. 
          KIDS DON'T, YOU DON'T DO A STRIP SEARCH. 
          MAY, MAY WE BRING THIS BACK TO WHAT IS IN THE SCOPE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          SO ZONING ORDINANCE CAN STIPULATE THAT THERE'S, LIKE, THERE'S NO SMOKING INSIDE OF A BUILDING. 
          ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          CAN'T, CANNOT DO THAT. 
          CAN'T DO THAT. 
          NO, NO. 
          WE ARE LOOKING SPECIFICALLY AT THE USE OF THAT. 
          SO ZONING ORDINANCE CAN ONLY SAY WHAT THE USE IS. 
          SO, SO WHAT WE CAN DO IS, IS ADD DEFINITIONS THAT SAY THAT, UH, RETAIL USE, WHEREVER RETAIL IS PERMITTED, DOES NOT INCLUDE VAPING OR MARIJUANA. 
          HOWEVER WE CHOOSE TO DEFINE THAT. 
          UM, THERE ARE INSTANCES AND, AND IT'S A FINE LEGAL LINE. 
          UM, I'VE WORKED ON OTHER ORDINANCES TO DO THIS, TO LOCATE, UH, DONE IT IN THE STRIP CLUBS. 
          UM, AND SO YOU CAN FIGURE OUT, UM, EXACTLY DISTANCES FROM SCHOOLS, DISTANCES FROM RESIDENTIAL, IF THERE ARE WAYS TO DO IT. 
          BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, UM, THAT THERE IS A LEGAL FINE LINE. 
          WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT RESTRICTING THE, AND WE CAN WORK WITH, UM, YOUR ATTORNEY ON THIS. 
          SO YEAH, I DON'T KNOW THAT, WELL, I GUESS IT COULD BE IF WE DEVELOPED THE LAND OUT ON, UM, LEACH RUN, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT'S AN UNDEVELOPED LAND AND THERE'S A SCHOOL THERE. 
          BUT FOR THE MOST PART WHERE THE SCHOOLS ARE, UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S THE PROBLEM, BUT I COULD BE WRONG. 
          BUT I THINK WELL, IT'S BRINGING WHAT YOU CAN. 
          WELL, SURE. 
          I DON'T THINK THE, THE 
          [00:50:01]
LOCATION CLOSE TO SCHOOL. 
          BUT WHAT YOU WOULD DO IS THE LO LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, YOU CAN BUFFER CHURCHES, BUFFER SCHOOLS, BUFFER RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, BUFFER DAYCARES. 
          BUFFER DAYCARES. 
          UM, AND SO WHAT YOU'VE DONE THEN BASICALLY IS CREATING A BUBBLE MAP WHERE THERE'S NOT A LOT OF ROOM LEFT. 
          YEAH. 
          AND CLUSTER ROOM IN THE, IN THE POOREST ENTRANCE WAYS OF THE TOWN, WHICH IS WHAT WE DO. 
          SO, SO THAT IS, UM, YOU RIGHT. 
          LET'S TALK, LET US DISCUSS THE BEST WAY TO DO THIS. 
          UM, AND, AND SO FOR, FOR YOUR LIST, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A VERY GOOD TARGETED COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF ACTIONS THAT THE TOWN CAN TAKE. 
          ONE OR TWO OF THEM IS IN THE SCOPE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          I'VE WRITTEN THESE DOWN. 
          WE'RE GONNA RESEARCH AND DISCUSS AND COME AND COME BACK. 
          SO, BUT WHAT I'M HEARING IS VERY CLEARLY UNANIMOUSLY YES. 
          WE WANNA TRY TO LIMIT THEM. 
          OKAY. 
          AND YOU WANT US TO INCLUDE MARIJUANA IN THAT OR NO? MM-HMM. 
          , I THINK YOU HAVE TO, YOU BETTER BE REAL ACTIVE WITH IT. 
          I MEAN, IT'S GONNA GET PUBLIC. 
          I MEAN, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS GONNA HAVE PUBLIC INPUT ANYWAY. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          SO LIKE WE CAN ALL SAY WHAT WE THINK. 
          WE'LL GET PUBLIC INPUT ANYWAY. 
          I MEAN, IT'S NOT, BUT IT'S WHAT YOU WERE SAYING THOUGH. 
          THAT COULD BE THE THING THAT WE GET. 
          YEAH, I GOTCHA. 
          BUT ACTUALLY WHAT COUNCILMAN RAPPAPORT, I JUST WANNA SAY, AND MAYBE THINGS HAVE CHANGED MR. SONNET SINCE THIS ALL CAME ABOUT, BUT WHEN, WHEN THIS FIRST HAPPENED, WHAT WE WERE TOLD ON COUNCIL IS THE TOWN COUNCIL ITSELF CAN ACTUALLY SAY THAT MARIJUANA SALES COULD NOT HAPPEN IN THE TOWN. 
          WE, WE HAVE THAT ABILITY TO DO THAT. 
          HOWEVER, THE PROPOSED BILL THAT I, THE PROPOSED BILL I'VE SEEN, UM, CALLS FOR REFERENDUM. 
          RIGHT. 
          IF YOU WANT TO PROHIBIT IT. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND, AND THEY WERE SAYING THIS IN WHENEVER 2021, THAT EVEN IF THE TOWN SAID ONE THING, IF THE COUNTY SAID SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THIS, THIS WAS BACK A FORMER TOWN ATTORNEY AND SAID TO US, BECAUSE WE WERE WITHIN THE COUNTY, BASICALLY THE COUNTY WOULD TRUMP WHAT WE WOULD BE SAYING. 
          BUT THINGS HAVE CHANGED THAT IT'S BEEN FOUR YEARS. 
          THERE'S ALL KINDS OF STUFF GOING ON. 
          BUT YEAH, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE CAN, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. 
          IT IS A MORE DISCUSSION. 
          I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA BE AT THE ELIMINATE OR PROHIBIT COMPLETELY AT THIS STAGE. 
          YEAH. 
          AND, AND YOU'LL HAVE TO DELINEATE BETWEEN MEDICAL, RIGHT? YEAH. 
          AND WE CAN PUT SOME INITIAL ZONING. 
          I THINK WE'VE RESTRICTIONS ON THIS. 
          AND THEN, AND THEN DOWN THE ROAD WE GET TO LOOK FOR, SO I, I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION FROM, FROM THIS DISCUSSION, I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO GO FORWARD WITH VAPE MARIJUANA, UM, AND TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO BEST LIMIT THAT. 
          UM, AND, BUT AGAIN, NOW YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING ABOUT THE ONE TOPIC, IT COULD DERAIL THE WHOLE NO, I GOTCHA. 
          WE CAN TRY, WE'LL PUT IT IN, IN, IN, BUT THAT ALSO COULD BE ONE TOPIC THAT COULD, WHEN YOU SAY DERAIL MAYBE, OR IT COULD BE WHAT BRINGS EVERYBODY OUT  TO THE MEETING. 
          BECAUSE THAT'S TRUE. 
          BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THAT. 
          AND WE'VE BEEN SAYING FOR A REALLY LONG TIME THAT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE ANYTHING IN PLACE FOR THAT. 
          AND SO PEOPLE MIGHT BE VERY HAPPY THAT WE SUDDENLY HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE THAT COULD, UM, GIVE US SOME TEETH ON WHERE VAPE SHOPS ARE GOING AND THE NUMBER AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF. 
          AND IF DOWN THE ROAD WE NEED TO REEXAMINE IT OR ADD TO IT, WE CAN ALWAYS DO THAT. 
          I THINK HERE WE'RE GONNA WORK ON THE INITIAL, OUR INITIAL THOUGHTS, AND THEN WE CAN TWEAK IT AS TIME GOES ON. 
          NOTHING THAT WE DO, EVEN WITH THE NEW ORDINANCE THAT'S GONNA BE SET IN STONE. 
          SO THE MINIMUM PARKING STANDARDS IS NEXT ON THE LIST. 
          WERE YOU, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THAT IN GENERAL OR JUST, I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT A LOT WITH SHORT, SHORT TERM RENTALS, UM, ABOUT PARKING. 
          SO WHAT STAFF IS SEEING, AND, AND THE REASON I KIND OF WANTED TO BRING THIS UP, UM, ESPECIALLY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, IN THE OLDER PORTIONS OF TOWN, WHEN YOU HAVE WHAT USED TO BE A RESIDENCE AND IS NOW A BUSINESS, BECAUSE WE'VE ZONED A LOT OF THESE AREAS WITH THE OLD HOMES AS COMMERCIAL USES, THE HOUSE ITSELF TAKES UP THE MAJORITY OF THE LOT, OR THE STRUCTURE DOES, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PARKING. 
          AND OUR PARKING MINIMUMS THAT WE REQUIRE, LIKE TWO PARKING SPACES PER 300 SQUARE FEET OR PER EMPLOYEE IS PROHIBITING US FROM PERMITTING BUSINESSES THAT MAY BE GOOD FOR THE TOWN OR MAY DO. 
          WELL, THERE ARE APPROPRIATE THERE. 
          UM, AND SO THE THOUGHT IS TO POTENTIALLY REMOVE THOSE STANDARDS, AT LEAST IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WOULD BE MY ASK. 
          UM, AND KIND OF LET THE, I GUESS, LET THE MARKET GUY MM-HMM,  WELL, THE STREETS HAVE BEEN HERE A LOT LONGER THAN LAKE CHESTER STREET. 
          I'M QUITE CERTAIN IT'S BEEN HERE LONGER THAN PRETTY MUCH MOST OF THE CARS THAT'VE BEEN ON THE EARTH. 
          SO, AND YOU GO ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD LEAST, AND I HAVE ALL THE CITIES I'VE BEEN TO ANY, TO ANY, UH, YOU 
          [00:55:01]
KNOW, OF ANY, OF ANY SUBSTANTIAL SIZE, LIKE LONDON, PARIS FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU KNOW, THE STREETS ARE OLDER THAN CARS, SO IT'S LIKE, OKAY, WELL THERE'S NO PARKING BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE CARS BACK THEN. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO I TRY TO, PEOPLE THAT I'M LIKE, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH A, YOU KNOW, THAT'S PRETTY MUCH A GIVEN. 
          SO HERE ON MAIN STREET, UH, FOR INSTANCE, I'M PRETTY SURE ONE OF THE BUILDINGS HERE HAVE PROBABLY BEEN AROUND LONGER THAN, THAN SOME OF THE CARS THAT WE SEE. 
          SO I THINK MOST OF THE BUILDINGS. 
          YEAH. 
          SO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT IT LIKE THAT, IT KIND OF SIMPLIFIES IT IN A WAY, YOU KNOW, AND, AND LIKE YOU SAID, A LOT OF THE HOUSES HERE ARE NOW BEING USED AS BUSINESSES. 
          AND I DON'T KNOW IF TOO MANY PEOPLE HERE RIDING AROUND WITH HORSES AND BUGGIES. 
          I MEAN, I LIVED, WHEN I LIVED IN HUNTINGTON, I WENT TO SCHOOL THERE, THERE WAS A ORDINANCE ABOUT NOT ALLOWING HORSELESS CARRIAGES ON FOURTH AVENUE ON SUNDAYS. 
          NOW, UM, I DON'T KNOW, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY ORDINANCE LIKE THAT. 
          BUT ANYWAYS, I'M JUST SAYING, AND THIS IS WHAT I KNOW, WE'VE, YOU'VE HEARD IT FROM ME SEVERAL TIMES, THAT WE, WE, WE HAVE A STARK CONTRADICTION BETWEEN PUTTING A PARKING REGULATION ON A SHORT TERM RENTAL. 
          WHEREAS IF YOU RENT IT LONG TERM, THEN THERE'S NO PARKING, YOU KNOW? RIGHT. 
          AND PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, IF I RENT MY HOUSE OUT, THERE'S NO PARKING ORDINANCE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO PARKING LIMIT ON MY HOUSE. 
          BUT IF I SHORT TERM RENTAL, THEN I GOT LIKE TWO SPOTS, WHICH IT CONTRADICTS ITSELF. 
          I DON'T, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, TO ME IT'S, YOU KNOW,  GO AHEAD. 
          SO I AGREE EXACTLY WITH, UH, WHAT JOSH HAS SAID ABOUT THAT. 
          AND THESE TWO BOARDS FIND THEMSELVES, UH, UH, CONFLICT AT TIMES. 
          'CAUSE AS PLANNING COMMISSION, YOU GO BY THE ORDINANCE, IT SAYS TWO OR WHATEVER, AND THEY RECOMMEND SOMETHING TO YOU TO DENY. 
          AND THEN COUNCIL SAYS, WELL, YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE SAME AS THE LONG TERM RENTAL. 
          WE COULD CLEAN THAT UP WHERE WE WOULDN'T BE DISAGREEING. 
          THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO ADD, BECAUSE IF YOU KEEP, UH, MAKING SURE YOU HAVE PARKING STANDARDS, YOU'LL END UP LIKE THE MAJOR THROUGH FAIR IN MARTINSVILLE WHERE THEY HAVE THESE OLD HOMES, THEY'RE BEAUTIFUL, BUT GUESS WHAT? THE FRONT YARD'S, NOTHING BUT CONCRETE OR ASPHALT BECAUSE THE PRESSURE TO CREATE PARKING FOR AN INSURANCE AGENCY, FOR A DENTIST, FOR WHATEVER HAS CAUSED THEM TO DO THAT. 
          I MEAN, LOVELY HOMES AND SOME OF 'EM HAVE FIXED UP THE BUILDINGS, BUT STILL THE FRONT OF IT WOULD BE CONCRETE OR AC OR AN ASPHALT. 
          SO I THINK BY REMOVING THE PARKING STANDARDS, PEOPLE, IF YOU WANT TO GO SOMEWHERE, YOU'LL PARK, YOU'LL FIND A PARKING PLACE. 
          PARKING, I MEAN, WE COME DOWN, IF MAIN STREET'S FULL, WE SLIP OVER TO PEYTON AND THEN TROY JACKSON AND ALL, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE WE WANT TO EAT OR SEE A MOVIE OR, OR DO WHATEVER. 
          WE'RE GOING, WE'RE GOING TO FIND A PARKING PLACE. 
          NOW DO WE HAVE ENOUGH? THAT'S AN, THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION. 
          THAT'S A WHOLE NOTHER ANIMAL, RIGHT? THAT'S ANOTHER ARGUMENT. 
          BUT I THINK BY HAVING THEM, IT CREATES UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. 
          SO WHEN SHORT TERM RENTALS, WHEN ALL THAT WAS, AGAIN, I WAS ON COUNCIL WHEN THAT WAS COMING ABOUT, INITIATED, THAT WENT ON FOREVER AND EVER. 
          AND I THINK SOME OF THE, THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS WERE, AT THE TIME THERE, THERE WAS PUSHBACK TO SHORT TERM RENTALS, ESPECIALLY IN RESIDENTIAL AREAS. 
          AND ONE OF THOSE ARE, ONE OF THE CONCERNS WERE FROM OTHER NEIGHBORS AND STUFF LIVING IN, IN, IN AND AROUND THESE PLACES THAT MIGHT GET APPROVED WITH THE FEAR THAT THEY SUDDENLY WERE GOING TO HAVE CARS IN FRONT. 
          LIKE THEY SUDDENLY WOULDN'T HAVE THEIR OWN PARK, LIKE LITERALLY IN FRONT OF THEIR OWN HOUSE, WHICH IS A CONCERN. 
          I MEAN, IT'S A TOWN STREET. 
          YOU CAN PARK, I COULD PARK IN FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE IF I WANTED TO, RIGHT. 
          BUT, BUT THE CONSIDERATION YOU WOULD HOPE OF THE NEIGHBORS WOULD BE THAT YOU'RE NOT GONNA PARK IN FRONT, PARK IN FRONT OF YOUR NEIGHBORS ALL THE TIME OR WHATEVER. 
          SO THAT'S WHERE SOME OF THAT CAME ABOUT. 
          THEN ONCE THE SHORT TERM RENTAL, ONCE IT, AND WE HAD ALWAYS SAID ON THE COUNCIL AT THAT TIME WHEN IT GOT APPROVED WAS IS THAT WE'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA START THIS AND WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK AND REVISIT IT BECAUSE WE, YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW UNTIL YOU START DOING IT. 
          RIGHT. 
          GOTTA START SOMEWHERE. 
          AND, AND THE PARKING IS DEFINITELY, IN MY OPINION, SINCE WE'VE STARTED IT, IT'S THE ONE THING THAT SEEMS TO KEEP COMING BACK. 
          AND LIKE YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, MANY TIMES PLANNING COMMISSION HAS DENIED IT. 
          COUNCIL HAS APPROVED IT. 
          AND PART OF IT HAS BEEN, ONCE PEOPLE STARTED LOOKING AT THE PARKING, IT SEEMED LIKE THAT WAS THE ONE EXCEPTION TO IT. 
          AND SO I, I AGREE THAT IT DEFINITELY NEEDED TO BE LOOKED AT. 
          BUT I JUST WANTED GET BACK BACKGROUND. 
          YOU WERE SAYING SOMETIMES THAT FORCES PEOPLE TO CHANGE THE TRUCTURE, YOU KNOW, TEAR SOMETHING DOWN OR YOU TEAR A WALL DOWN OR SOMETHING. 
          OR POUR CONCRETE OR ASPHALT WHERE, WHERE IT NEVER WAS BEFORE. 
          YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT. 
          WELL, COUNCIL JUST APPROVED AN 
          [01:00:01]
SUA COUPLE WEEKS AGO AND THEY'VE HAD TO TAKE THE ENTIRE YARD, THE GREEN SPACE YARD AND CONVERT IT INTO A PARKING AREA, THE REHAB HOUSE. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO NOW YOU HAVE IMPERMEABLE SURFACE, YOU'RE INCREASING, WE'VE THESE, SOME PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE CARS. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT OUR ORDINANCE SAYS, WELL, FOR EVERY GUEST YOU GOTTA HAVE, I GET IT. 
          I KNOW WHY WE DO IT. 
          BUT WE'VE ADDED EXPENSE TO A WONDERFUL ORGANIZATION. 
          THE, UH, APPLICANTS REALLY DON'T HAVE CARS AS WE LEARNED THROUGH OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS. 
          BUT THE ORDINANCE THERE, BY GOD, WE'RE GONNA PLOW UP SOME ROOF. 
          NOW YOU'RE CHANNELING WATER, WATER INTO THE, AND THE WATER AND THE RUNOFF. 
          IT'S, YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          AND AGAIN, AS I SAID, A LOT OF THAT CAME FROM PUBLIC INPUT. 
          YOU KNOW, THE CITIZENS THAT WERE VERY CONCERNED, I MEAN CITIZENS THAT IF THEY HAD THEIR DRUTHERS, WE WOULD NEVER HAVE SHORT TERM RENTALS AT ALL. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          RIGHT. 
          MR. CRAP. 
          WERE THERE PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T WANT THAT AT ALL? AND, AND RESIDENTIAL. 
          AND PART OF IT WAS THE FEAR OF NOW THIS HOUSE HAS THE FOUR PEOPLE LIVING IN IT AND, AND IS ALSO GONNA HAVE FOUR PEOPLE AS GUESTS. 
          AND, AND IF THERE'S FOUR PEOPLE AND THERE'S TWO CARS OR FOUR CARS, YOU KNOW, BUT ALSO OUR SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE WHERE IT LAYS OUT THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, PREDATES THE CREATION OR PREDATES SHORT TERM RENTALS. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO A ZONING ADMINISTRATOR, I DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. 
          EVERY USED AN ORDINANCE HAS TO HAVE SOME FORM OF PARKING. 
          THE LOGICAL THOUGHT IS, OKAY, THIS IS SIMILAR TO LIKE A HOTEL MOTEL, USE LODGING. 
          LET'S USE THAT PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR THESE SHORT TERM RENTALS UNTIL WE AMEND THE CODE. 
          I DON'T, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE. 
          THAT PUTS A LOT OF PRESSURE ON YOU. 
          I UNDERSTAND. 
          I CAN'T MAKE AN ARBITRARY DECISION. 
          UH, AND DENSELY POPULATED AREAS. 
          I MEAN, I SEE A SERIOUS PROBLEM. 
          I MEAN, I SEE IT BACK BEHIND JACKSON STREET AS A SERIOUS PROBLEM. 
          I SEE IT AS A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN THIS AREA IN PARTICULAR. 
          UH, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ENOUGH PARKING PER SE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE'S EVENTS GOING ON. 
          UM, UH, IT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, I KEEP ON PEOPLE KEEP ON SAYING WE'RE RURAL, BUT WE'RE NOT RURAL. 
          WE ARE, OR WE ARE PRETTY URBAN IN, IN THIS GENERAL AREA HERE. 
          SO, UM, I I, YOU KNOW, MAYBE YOU CAN DO IT IN SOME PLACES AROUND TOWN, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO IT EVERY, I DON'T, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING THAT WE DO IT OVER THE ENTIRE TOWN. 
          I THINK WE SHOULD START, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE HAVE PARKING EXEMPTIONS ON MAIN STREET, BUT WE DIDN'T INCLUDE CHESTER STREET. 
          SO TWO YEARS AGO, THIS BODY HAD TO APPROVE WHAT, TWO OR THREE SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS TO GIVE THEM. 
          BASICALLY PROVIDE RELIEF FROM THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS. 
          UM, YEAH, BUT YOU CAN'T FIND A PARKING SPOT BEHIND US HERE ON HAYTON STREET. 
          YOU, YOU CAN'T, DURING THE DAY, YOU CAN'T FIND A PARKING SPOT. 
          YOU MEAN IN THE TOWN PARKING LOT? YEAH. 
          IT'S ACTUALLY THE TOWN. 
          YEAH. 
          IN THE TOWN PARKING LOT OR PUBLIC PARKING LOT. 
          'CAUSE THERE'S RESIDENTS ARE USING IT AS WELL THAT ARE LIVING OVER TOP OF THE BUILDING. 
          SO, WELL, I'M WONDERING ABOUT THE HANDICAP ACCESSIBILITY. 
          CAN WE, LIKE, IF WE REMOVE THE STANDARDS, I I MEAN IF YOUR BUILDING IS NOT HANDICAP ACCESSIBLE, THEN NO, NO, NO WORRIES. 
          BUT A DA COMPLIANCE IS A WHOLE OTHER, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT STATES, LIKE YOU, WE HAVE TO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A, A COMPLIANCE AND I THINK BUILDING DEPARTMENT WOULD GO OUT. 
          AND SO IF EVERY, SO IN A COMMERCIAL, LIKE IF WE, IF WE DO AWAY WITH THE PARKING STANDARDS ACROSS A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, THEN WHAT, HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT THERE'S STILL A PERIOD OF, THERE'S DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STANDARDS AND LIMITATIONS. 
          SHE'S TALKING ABOUT LIMITATIONS. 
          I GOING LIKE PUT, REDUCING THE REQUIREMENT OF, OF THE LIMIT OF PARKING. 
          NOT THE STANDARDS. 
          THE STANDARDS ARE SO YOU STILL, YOU'D STILL HAVE TO PROVIDE A DA YEAH. 
          SPACES YOU WOULD STILL, THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE AT LEAST A NINE BY 18 SPACE. 
          I'M TALKING ABOUT THE PARKING THAT THEY DO PROVIDE. 
          I'M NOT SETTING THE MINIMUM NUMBER. 
          I'M NOT REQUIRING, UH, A RECOVERY HOUSE TO HAVE 10 PARKING SPACES FOR PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE CARS. 
          JUST, JUST ASK A QUESTION. 
          BUT LIKE, IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO TURN AN OLD HOUSE ON LIKE BLUE RIDGE INTO APARTMENTS, SO RIGHT. 
          THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ANY PARKING REQUIREMENTS. 
          WELL, THEY TECHNICALLY DO, BUT THAT GETS TRICKY BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE HOUSES, THESE OLD HISTORIC HOUSES, WE HAD A, WE'VE GOT LANGUAGE IN OUR ORDINANCE NOW THAT ALLOWS CONVERSION OF, UH, COMMERCIAL OR RESIDENTIAL UNIT INTO A COMMERCIAL RESIDENTIAL UNIT WITH A GREATER NUMBER OF UNITS. 
          I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT WORDING, BUT THAT'S BY RIGHT. 
          AND WHAT'S HAPPENED IS A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE CONVERTED THESE OLD HOUSES 
          [01:05:01]
WITHOUT GETTING ANY PERMITS. 
          SO WE, THE PARKING WOULD LIMIT THAT. 
          OR WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS THEY'RE TURNING THE ENTIRE YARD INTO THE PARKING LOT. 
          MM-HMM. 
           WHEN THEY DO PULL A PERMIT. 
          BUT, YOU KNOW, IT BECOMES A VERY STICKY SITUATION WHEN, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY PURCHASES A HOME THAT WAS CONVERTED 30 SOME YEARS AGO. 
          WE HAVE NO RECORD OF WHEN IT WAS CONVERTED TO THEN TRY, I CAN'T HOLD THEM TO, IF IT'S A CONTINUED USE, I CAN'T, I WAS JUST ASKING THEM BECAUSE THAT, THAT WOULD BE A CONCERN. 
          THAT'S SOMETHING IF YOU WERE A NEIGHBOR IN THE PEOPLE DECIDED YOU DECIDED TO TURN THE HOME INTO SIX APARTMENTS. 
          AND NOW, AND I THINK THAT, THAT, ESPECIALLY SOME OF THOSE OLDER STREETS, LIKE YOU SAID, THINKING, WELL, THERE'S, THERE'S CLOUD WELL, THERE'S MULTI FAMILIES WHO ARE LIVING IN SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. 
          SO THAT WHEN I WAS OUT CAMPAIGNING AND LITERALLY THERE'D BE LIKE THREE, FOUR TRUCKS IN THE FRONT YARD. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, CAN I THINK WE HAVE SOME REQUIREMENT TILL YOU GET UP. 
          RIGHT. 
          GET THE MAILBOXES. 
          YEAH. 
          THEY LOOK LIKE, YEAH, BUT WE, I THINK WE HAVE A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU CAN HAVE MORE THAN SO MANY PEOPLE, LIKE UNRELATED PEOPLE IN HOUSE. 
          BUT IT'S DIFFICULT TO CHECK THAT ENFORCE. 
          OH YEAH. 
          YEAH. 
          I, BUT BELIEVE IT OR NOT, SO I MEAN, WE WE'RE GIGGLING ABOUT THAT, BUT I'VE GOTTEN CALLS BEFORE FROM CITIZENS ABOUT THAT, HOW ALL OF A SUDDEN THEIR NEIGHBOR IS RENTING OUT THEIR HOUSE TO EIGHT COLLEGE STUDENTS AND YOU KNOW, AND TECHNICALLY THAT'S NOT, IT'S IN A R ONE I BELIEVE. 
          SO THEY CAN'T REALLY DO THAT. 
          BUT ANYWAY, UM, SO WHERE DO WE, WHERE ARE WE GOING WITH ON REMOVING MINIMUM PARKING STANDARDS? DID IT SOUND LIKE, DID IT SOUND LIKE PEOPLE ARE, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO, I THINK SOMEBODY NEED TO RESEARCH MORE AND GET IT DONE. 
          OKAY. 
          OKAY. 
          AND PLANNING COMMISSION WILL, I MEAN, WE'LL WORK THROUGH IT AND PUT THE LANGUAGE IN PLANNING COMMISSION VETS IT, THAT'S PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          SHAW IS TO VET THE LANGUAGE BEFORE IT GETS TO TOWN COUNCIL. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO THE PLANNING COMMISSION WILL GET INTO THE WEEDS. 
          I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING BACK TO US ABOUT IT. 
          WE CAN REALLY ADOPT. 
          AND, AND WOULD IT BE FOR JUST IN GENERAL OR FOR ST AND WELL, NO, IT WOULD BE IN GENERAL. 
          IT WOULD BE IN GENERAL. 
          SO IN CHAPTER 1 48, I THINK IT'S EIGHT 70, I HAVE A TABLE THAT HAS A LIST OF USES AND THEN THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE NEXT TO IT. 
          THAT'S THE TABLE. 
          THE SHORT TERM RENTALS IN THOSE USES? NO, THAT'S THE PROBLEM. 
          UH, IT'S UP TO ME TO DETERMINE WHAT'S APPROPRIATE FOR PARKING. 
          SO WHAT I'VE DONE IS USED LODGING EVERY BEDROOM. 
          YEP. 
          AND THEN REQUIRED ONE PER BEDROOM, WHICH THEN PLANNING COMMISSION IS RECOMMENDING DENIAL. 
          I'M RECOMMENDING DENIAL BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE SUFFICIENT PARKING. 
          AND THEN TOWN COUNCIL'S APPROVING IT. 
          OKAY. 
          SO CHANGE THE TABLE. 
          SORRY. 
          BECAUSE IT WAS RIDICULOUS, BUT SORRY. 
          IT TAKES PRESSURE OFF YOU TOO. 
          YEAH. 
          I WOULD THINK IF ANY PLACE WE CAN REMOVE GRAY AREAS OR WHERE IT BECOMES LIKE AN ARBITRARY DECISION THAT I HAVE TO MAKE IT, IT'S, IT'S BETTER FOR STAFF. 
          SO NEXT UP IS ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS. 
          SO WE KIND OF HAD DISCUSSED THIS EARLIER AND TELL ME IF THIS IS TRUE TO WHAT YOU THINK YOU SAID. 
          BECAUSE WHAT I HEARD WAS, UM, WE DO, UH, WE, UH, UNDERSTAND ACCESSORY DEBELL UNITS AND SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE DIFFERENT. 
          YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON SHORT-TERM RENTALS FOR A WHILE. 
          UM, SINCE IT'S CONTENTIOUS, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD ACTUALLY BE TO GO THROUGH ITS OWN PROCESS. 
          YES. 
          SOMETHING JUST PASSED, DIDN'T IT? THAT WAS TRYING TO FIND IT. 
          BUT SB 3 0 4, I THINK THAT PAUSE. 
          OH, I THINK IT'S ON HOLD UNTIL THAT, THAT'S THE ONE I WAS GETTING EMAILS ABOUT EVERY DAY FROM OTHER PEOPLE ACROSS. 
          THEY PUT IT UP UNTIL 2025 SESSION. 
          OKAY. 
          BUT IT IS A GOOD MECHANISM FOR, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY CREATING AFFORDABLE HOUSING. 
          I MEAN, IF YOU CAN PUT A GRANNY POT IN YOUR BACKYARD AND YOU CAN EITHER MOVE INTO IT YOURSELF OR RENT IT OUT FOR UNDER A THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH BECAUSE RENT IN THIS TOWN UNDER A THOUSAND DOLLARS IS NOT HAPPENING. 
          UM, I, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE NEED TO INCLUDE THIS. 
          WE NEED TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT. 
          BUT IN A PUBLIC FORUM, I HAVE A QUESTION, BUT I'M GONNA ASK MR. WALTZ ABOUT THAT. 
          SO, AND MR. SONNET, SO IF WE HAVE, LET, NOW WE'VE GOT ONE COMING UP ABOUT THEY WANT TO SUBDIVIDE A LOT, BUT IN THIS CASE, LET'S SAY I OWN A HALF AN ACRE AND WITH MY SETBACKS, I CAN PUT A LITTLE GRANNY PO IN THE BACK. 
          IF WE DO THAT, DOES THAT THEN REQUIRE A SEPARATE TAP FEE, A SEPARATE WATER, SEPARATE SEWER? CAN IT BE COMBINED WITH THE HOUSEHOLD AND ONE METER? I MEAN, I THINK IF IT'S FED, OH, WE WOULD WORK THOSE DETAILS OUT IN THE SUBDIVISION WHERE I, THAT'S SEPARATE CONCERN. 
          THAT'S MY ONLY QUESTION ABOUT, I WAS GONNA SAY THAT'S ONE WAY THAT LOCALITIES REGULATE THAT BY SAYING THAT IT'S AN ACCESSORY DWELL AND IF IT'S ON THE SAME TAP. 
          BUT WE ACTUALLY HAVE HAD THAT ISSUE. 
          AND I WISH BJ WAS 
          [01:10:01]
HERE 'CAUSE HE WOULD SPEAK TO IT. 
          BUT THERE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE CERTAIN, UM, CRITERIA. 
          YES. 
          BECAUSE MR. WALTZ, I DON'T KNOW. 
          I, I BELIEVE THERE IS SOMETHING TO THAT. 
          'CAUSE WE ACTUALLY HAD THIS DISCUSSION SOMETIMES SINCE I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL WHERE, UM, PEOPLE WERE LIKE, THEY CAN'T THE METER TO THE HOUSE, BUT THERE WAS SOMEBODY ALSO STAYING THERE AND THEY WANTED A SEPARATE METER OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT OR WHATEVER. 
          I DON'T KNOW. 
          IS THERE ANYTHING IN THAT? THERE'S THERE'S PUT IT IN AT YOUR OWN EXPENSE. 
          YEAH, BUT THAT'S THE THING. 
          THEY WEREN'T, THEY WEREN'T DOING WE WORK. 
          THEY YEAH, GO AHEAD MR. SO WE'VE HAD SOME LEGACY ISSUES. 
          YES. 
          UM, BUT IF YOU'RE ON A SEPARATE LOT, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE YOUR OWN CONNECTION. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT IF YOU'RE ON SAME, AND AGAIN, THERE'S SOME LEGACY ISSUES WHERE MAYBE THERE'S TWO HOUSES, TWO CONNECTIONS ON ONE LOT. 
          AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT EVENTUALLY REQUIRED THAT THEY SPLIT IT. 
          I, YEAH, THERE'S DIFFERENT THINGS HAVE BEEN RESOLVED DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT, UM, THE GENERAL RULE OF COURSE, IS EACH LOT REQUIRES ITS OWN CONNECTION. 
          MY THOUGHT ON ACCESSORY DWELLING IS IF IT'S ACCESSORY, THEN IT WOULD TIE INTO THE, THE, THE SAME CONNECTION. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND IT WOULD BE UP TO THEM TO GET THE UTILITY FROM WHOEVER'S USING THE ACCESS. 
          SO YOU'RE RECOMMENDING THAT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT IN THIS ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          REWRITES ABOUT THAT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION IS TO, SO ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS ARE A LEGAL ALREADY B RECOMMENDED BY THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO, YOU KNOW, BE LEGAL. 
          SO IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE UPDATE, WE CAN ADD ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS MORE SPECIFICALLY IN CERTAIN DISTRICTS. 
          MY RECOMMENDATION THOUGH IS TO KEEP THE SHORT TERM RENTAL CONVERSATION SEPARATE BECAUSE IT IS SO, BECAUSE IT IS CONTENTIOUS AND BECAUSE IT DESERVES TO BE PARSED OUT AND HAVING A, A, HAVE ITS OWN PUBLIC PROCESS. 
          OKAY. 
          FOUR AGAINST. 
          OKAY. 
          AND OTHER THAN THE PARKING, WE REALLY HAVEN'T HAD A WHOLE LOT OF PUSHBACK ON THE STR IF IF IT'S THE PARKING, IT'S BEEN THE THING THAT KEEPS CAUSING ISSUES. 
          WELL, IF YOU HAVEN'T, IF YOU, IF YOU THINK THAT'S, WE COULD PUT IT INTO THE ORDINANCE AND SEE, SEE HOW IT GOES. 
          IF, IF, BECAUSE MY NOTES HERE ARE FROM REMOVING MINIMUM PARKING STANDARDS TO CHANGE TABLE, UH, THE TABLE IN CHAPTER 1 48 AND ALSO ADD SHORT TERM RENTALS AS A USE. 
          AND IF THAT SOLVES IT, YOU KNOW, I'M FOR, I'M, 'CAUSE I, YOU KNOW, THAT'S MY VACATION. 
          SO I LIKE THE SHORT TERM RENTALS. 
          BUT YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S MY, AND I WANT TO REGULATE 'EM. 
          RIGHT. 
          THE SHORT TERM RENTALS AS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT. 
          I MEAN, I, I WAS PREPARED, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS IT. 
          I WON'T DISCUSS. 
          WELL, ME ASK THIS GROUP, WOULD IT BE DIFFICULT IF YOU WERE TO, WHEN YOU REVIEW THE DRAFT ZONING ORDINANCE, WOULD SHORT-TERM RENTALS BE BE A POINT OF CONTINGENT AMONG THESE TWO BODIES? WELL, I DON'T WANNA PUT, BECAUSE WE'RE ON PLANNING THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THEY'RE GOING LIKE, LIKE LAUREN JUST SAID, THEY'RE GOING ABOUT WHAT'S IN OUR ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW. 
          SO WE'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM TOWN COUNTY AS A WHOLE. 
          I, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR BRUCE, BUT MOST OF US HERE ARE LIKE, ARE SAYING I'M, I'M JUST SAYING ANYBODY, I DON'T WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. 
          IT WASN'T, HE WASN'T BEING CRITICAL. 
          YOU'RE JUST SAYING WE KNOW YOU, YOU WE KNOW THERE ARE CERTAIN PEOPLE THAT WERE IN FAVOR. 
          ACTUALLY THE BIG CONTENTION WAS SHORT TERM RENTAL AND R ONE. 
          THAT'S WHAT THE, ANY OF THE PUSHBACK WE'VE GOTTEN FROM PRIOR COUNT, PRIOR PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS OR EVEN CURRENT TOWN COUNCIL IS NOT SHORT TERM RENTALS THEMSELVES, BUT SHORT TERM RENTALS IN CERTAIN ZONING THAT RIGHT. 
          AM I AM NOT SAYING THAT. 
          YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT. 
          THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. 
          YOU KNOW, WE HAD A PAY ATTENTION. 
          OKAY. 
          HAVE SIMILAR CONVERSATION, UM, DIFFERENT CRITERIA, BUT SIMILAR CONVERSATION ABOUT SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS IN THE COMP PLAN, UM, PROCESS. 
          AND WHAT WE ENDED UP DOING WAS CREATING TWO DIFFERENT FUTURELY INDUCED CATEGORIES. 
          UM, THEY'RE ROUGHLY, SO IT'S NOT JUST R ONE, BUT IT'S POSSIBLE TO ADDRESS IT AND SAY SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE PERMITTED. 
          I'M JUST, AGAIN, THIS IS A REASON. 
          IT MIGHT, SHOULD GO THROUGH ITS OWN PROCESS THOUGH. 
          YEAH. 
          SO YOU GOT A QUESTION. 
          WOULD THERE BE CONSENSUS BETWEEN THESE TWO BODIES ON SOMETHING LIKE THE FOLLOWING? AND WOULD IT BE THE SORT OF THING THAT COULD GO INTO THE ZONING CODE? SOMETHING LIKE THERE SHALL BE NO MORE THAN X NUMBER OF SHORT TERM RENTALS IN TOWN, 
          [01:15:02]
LIKE PUTTING A CAP ON THE NUMBER THAT WE, AGAIN, THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS TO DO IT. 
          UM, WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DONE IN THE ZONING CODE WHERE, WHERE WE ALL WANT THE ONLY, THE ONLY PROBLEM I WOULD SEE WITH THAT, CONNIE, I'M JUST BEING REALLY HONEST, IS, IS THAT PEOPLE APPLY FOR IT AND IT MIGHT GET PERMITTED AND THEN THEY'RE NOT EVEN USING IT BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THEY'RE RIGHT, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT APPLY FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT THEN THEY DID, THEN THEY DID IT TO GET IT, BUT THEY MAY NOT KEEP DOING IT. 
          SO IF WE CAPPED OUT A NUMBER AND KEEP IN MIND THE WHOLE SHORT TERM RENTAL THING, PART OF THAT WAS WE WOULD BE GETTING SOME FINANCIAL REVENUE, YOU KNOW, REVENUE BENEFIT FROM SHORT TERM RENTALS, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT REALLY HAPPENING, RIGHT. 
          LIKE IT SHOULD BE. 
          THAT WAS THE PLAN. 
          SO WE WOULD HAVE TO CREATE A REGISTRY IF YOU'RE GONNA CAP IT. 
          AND, AND THEN THE OTHER PROBLEM IS I THINK WE'VE APPROVED LIKE 19 SHORT TERM RENTALS APPLICATIONS ORS TO DATE. 
          AND WE'RE A LOT, WE ARE IN TOWN THAT ARE OPERATING MM-HMM. 
          , WE DO NOT PROACTIVELY ENFORCE, LIKE I DON'T GO ON AIRBNB AND SEARCH FRONT ROYAL AND SEE WHO'S OPERATING IT WITHOUT A PERMIT. 
          RIGHT. 
          UM, I, I THINK WE GET INTO ISSUES AND, AND WE DON'T HAVE A MECHANISM FOR A REGISTRY IN PLACE. 
          IT'S ACTUALLY ANOTHER ARGUMENT FOR DOING ITS OWN PROCESS AND ITS OWN ORDINANCE. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, UM, WE DID THIS WHEN I WORKED FOR THE CITY OF RICHMOND, WE DID IT AND THE WHOLE ORDINANCE, THE ORDINANCE ACTUALLY CREATED THE REGISTRY AS WELL. 
          OKAY. 
          AND SO THAT WAS ONE ORDINANCE THAT COUNCIL ADOPTED THAT CHANGED MULTIPLE PARTS OF THE CITY CODE THAT WERE OUTSIDE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. 
          SO THAT ALSO WOULD BE AN ARGUMENT FOR NOT JUST, IF YOU WANNA CREATE A REGISTRY, IF YOU WANNA FIND OTHER WAYS TO REGULATE, THEN I, THAT'S ANOTHER, YEAH. 
          AGAIN, THAT'S ANOTHER ARGUMENT. 
          WE'RE KEEPING IT BUNCH OF OTHER, THIS IS, IF YOU READ THE NORTHERN VIRGINIA DAILY OR THE ROLLING EXAMINER, THIS IS NOT UNIQUE TO FRONT ROYAL AND STRS. 
          SERIOUSLY. 
          CONSIDERING THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING. 
          THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING NOW, AREN'T THEY? WELL, THEY'RE, I MEAN THEY'RE STUDYING, I HAVEN'T READ THE PAPER IN A WEEK, BUT THEY'RE LOOKING AT CUTTING OUT SHORT TERM RENTALS 'CAUSE THE NEGATIVE EFFECT ON THEIR HOUSING INVENTORY, THE THING THE MAYOR HAS ALREADY MENTIONED ABOUT COLLECTION OF TAXES OR OCCUPANT TAXES. 
          YEAH. 
          THERE'S NO SILVER BULLET. 
          THERE'S NO RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWERS. 
          WHAT WE HAVE THE APPETITE FOR AND UNFORTUNATELY THE ENFORCEMENT FOR IF WE'RE GONNA COLLECT THE TAXES OFF OF IT. 
          SO THERE'S A LOT MORE TO BE CONSIDERED THAN DOING IT OR NOT DOING I THINK. 
          SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS IS A TOPIC THAT WE CAN DISCUSS IN THE FUTURE, BUT IT'S NOT GONNA BE PART OF THIS TOPIC OR FOR NOW I DON'T, I DON'T THINK, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH CLEAR ANSWERS YET. 
          I'M SORRY. 
          NO, I WAS GONNA SAY IF WE'RE NOT GONNA HIT THE, WE'RE NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT POTENTIALLY IN, IN THE ZONING, THE ZONING SECTIONS AND HANDLING, LIKE, THERE WAS AN ARTICLE IN THE, I THINK IT WAS IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA TODAY, UH, REGARDING, UH, THEIR, UH, THEY'RE ADOPTING SOMETHING SIMILAR TO WINCHESTER WITH HOME HOME SHARE VERSUS SHORT TERM RENTALS, UH, HOME OCCUPATION. 
          UH, SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GOING TO, IF WE'RE GOING TO GO DOWN THIS ROAD, THEN I'M, I'M WILLING TO DISCUSS IT TONIGHT. 
          BUT IF WE DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS IT, THEN THAT'S FINE. 
          I THINK FOR RIGHT NOW WHAT WE WILL DO IS WE WILL ADD IT AS A USE IN THE, IN THE PARKING AREA. 
          WE CAN DO THAT. 
          UM, OKAY. 
          AND THEN I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WANNA MAKE ANY MAJOR CHANGES TO THE SHORT TERM RENTAL ORDINANCE JUST YET. 
          AND, AND I'LL SAY THIS, ANYTIME THAT COUNSEL OR PETE PLANNING COMMISSION WANTS TO BRING IT UP, WE CAN CERTAINLY ADD IT TO SOMETHING AND GET PUBLIC INPUT. 
          AGAIN, IF PEOPLE, IF PEOPLE WANT IT, IT'S NOT LIKE IF WE DON'T DO IT NOW, WE CAN'T EVER DO IT. 
          UM, SO BECAUSE I, I, COUNCILMAN WOOD IS CORRECT. 
          I THINK OTHER LOCALITIES MUCH LIKE OUR OWN, YOU KNOW, JUMPED IN AND SAID, YEAH, LET'S DO THIS. 
          AND JUST LIKE ANYTHING IN LIFE HINDSIGHT YOU SAY, OKAY, WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS AND WHAT ABOUT THAT? AND, AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. 
          SO IT MAY BE A TOPIC FOR FUTURE. 
          UM, AND DEFINITELY THE COLLECTING, THE COLLECTING THE TAXES PART OF IT THAT WE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVEN'T REALLY QUITE FIGURED THAT OUT. 
          AND, AND, AND WE'RE AREN'T THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE WORKING WITH THAT TOO. 
          SO ANYWAY, WE'RE NOT, LET'S NOT EVER FORGET THAT. 
          YEAH. 
          IT'S THE KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD, WHICH IS THE CONCERN IS IT CAN, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU GET BUSY. 
          YEP. 
          AND IT NEVER COMES BACK UP. 
          [01:20:01]
I HEAR YA. 
          I, I'LL PICK THE DATE. 
          WE CAN PUT IT, I'M, I'M ALL ABOUT WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS NECESSARY. 
          WE CAN PICK A DATE TO DISCUSS IT, BUT I THINK THE DISCUSSION IT WE'RE, THERE'S GONNA HAVE TO BE SOME PUBLIC INPUT ON IT TOO. 
          IT IT, WHICH IS WHAT WE TRIED TO GET BEFORE AND MAYBE WE DIDN'T GET ENOUGH PUBLIC INPUT BEFORE BECAUSE PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS GONNA LOOK LIKE AND NOW THEY'VE HAD A COUPLE YEARS OF WHAT IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE AND MAYBE THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, SO BRUCE, I'LL PUT IT ON AN AGENDA. 
          IT JUST PROBABLY AIN'T GONNA BE FOR THE NEXT MONTH OR SO. 
          'CAUSE I'VE SEEN THE AGENDAS HAVEN WE, WHILE THERE'S A TON OF STUFF COMING UP, BUT, BUT WE COULD DISCUSS IT AGAIN. 
          SO, SO THE LAST ITEM, OUR ENTRANCE CORRIDORS. 
          AND IS THAT SOMETHING ? IT'S AN R THREE. 
          I'M GONNA LET YOU, OKAY. 
          SO WITH THE ENTRANCE CORRIDORS, WE'VE HAD A LOT OF FEEDBACK THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT THE MOST AESTHETICALLY PLEASING AREAS OF TOWN. 
          UM, WE'VE HAD FEEDBACK THAT THERE'S TRAFFIC ISSUES. 
          UM, FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE, IF WE'RE LOOKING, OUR THOUGHT WAS THIS IS THE AREA WE WOULD REALLY ANALYZE, LIKE APPROPRIATE SETBACKS. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHERE I'D WANT TO FOCUS ON LIKE WHAT DOES THE DEVELOPMENT LOOK LIKE? SO RIGHT NOW WE HAVE AN ENTRANCE CORRIDOR, OVERLY DISTRICT, IT'S VERY GENERALIZED. 
          IT'S USE MUTED COLORS. 
          THERE'S NO, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF GUIDANCE ON WHAT IS A MUTED COLOR. 
          SO LIKE WITH ONE OF THE CAR WASHES THAT CAME IN, THEY USED NEON PURPLE AS ONE OF THEIR COLORS. 
          I SAID PICK A DIFFERENT PURPLE. 
          BUT IT, IT, IT'S ARBITRARY. 
          SO I, I THINK I JUST WANT SOME FEEDBACK AS TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO THESE BODIES WANT US TO DO WITH THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT WITH THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR AREAS. 
          WE HAVE SOME EXAMPLES OF IT OR SOMETHING THAT WE COULD, OR WE JUST LOOK AT THE CODE AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO CHANGE THE CODE. 
          NOW I, WHAT DO WE DO? WE, WE ALSO HAVEN'T STABBED AT TAKING THE A STAB AT THIS YET. 
          WHAT WE COULD DO IS TAKE A STAB AT IT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT WOULD I, I CAN READ THROUGH IT AND RECOMMEND A COUPLE THINGS AND SEE IF THAT IS SATISFACTORY. 
          WELL, I CAN TELL YOU JUST FROM MY OWN STANDPOINT, LIKE I DON'T WANNA FEEL LIKE WHEN I ROLL UP INTO TOWN THAT WE'RE ON THE VEGAS STRIP, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THAT'S DEFINITELY, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SIGNAGE AND LIGHTING. 
          YEAH, OKAY. 
          SIGNAGE, LIGHTING. 
          THAT'S PROBABLY, I'M JUST SAYING, I KNOW YOU SAID YOU WERE GONNA TAKE A STAB AT IT, BUT THAT'S MY, THAT'S, THAT'S MY OPINION. 
          LIKE, WE DON'T ALLOW STARK WHITE, SO IT'S NOT CONSIDERED A MUTED COLOR. 
          WE HAD TO CITE A BUSINESS FROM PAINTING THEIR BUILDING WHITE. 
          I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, BUT I KNOW AS SOON AS I CROSSED THAT BEAUTIFUL FIRST TO SECOND BRIDGE, I SEE A VAPE SHOP ON THE RIGHT. 
          AND I SEE, UH, SHEETS ON THE LEFT AND I FEEL LIKE I'M ENTERING THE, THE, THE VAPE CAPITAL OF VIRGINIA, NOT THE CANOE CAPITAL OF VIRGINIA LOOKS LIKE GLASSES. 
          BUT YOU JUST BROUGHT UP A GOOD POINT. 
          LIKE, WAS SHE LIKE THEY SHE PASSED EVERYTHING THAT WE HAD. 
          SO I MEAN THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS. 
          RIGHT? RIGHT. 
          LIKE IF WELL DON'T WRONG I LIKE SHEETS. 
          YEAH, NO, NO, NO, NO. 
          I KNOW. 
          I LIKE MY HOT DOG. 
          YEAH, NO, I GOT YOU. 
          SOME BALANCE. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU GO INTO SOME OTHER COMMUNITIES, THEY ALL HAVE THE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TERM IS, BUT LOWER GROUND SIGN INSTEAD THE LOLLIPOP GROUND MOUNTED SIGNS, IT'S MORE CONSERVATIVE AND MORE PLEASANT I GUESS TO THAT. 
          THEN HERE'S A BIG ORANGE BALL UP THERE AND THAT MEANS THE 76 STATION OR YOU KNOW, BUT THERE ARE PLACES WHERE, I MEAN, YOU CAN ALMOST REGULATE THE, THE CANOPY OR THE PUMPS NEED TO BE IN THE REAR AND THEN THE STORE WOULD BE PUSHED TO THE FRONT. 
          I MEAN, THERE ARE THINGS LIKE THAT THAT CAN MAYBE HELP IMPROVE THE AESTHETICS. 
          SO HOW DO WE ADDRESS THAT WITH RESPECT TO WHATEVER MAY BE GOING IN ACROSS, AND I DON'T KNOW, ANOTHER GAS STATION OR SOMETHING ACROSS THAT SECOND BRIDGE TO THE RIGHT. 
          UM, THAT JUST GOT SOLD OR WHATEVER. 
          SOMETHING'S GOING IN THERE. 
          I GOT THINK IT'S ON THE GAS STATION, ISN'T IT SHOPPING RIGHT ON 14TH STREET? THAT, THAT, UM, I'M CONFUSED WAWA'S, I, I DON'T THINK THAT THEY'RE GONNA BE COMING BACK TO THAT SITE ON SHENANDOAH AVENUE. 
          SO RIGHT NOW THE VAPE SHOP IS GONNA CONTINUE. 
          SO RIGHT NOW IT JUST LOOKS UGLY YEAH. 
          WHEN YOU COME IN. 
          YEAH. 
          RIGHT. 
          SO I MEAN MY, MY ANSWER, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M ANSWERING YOU, BUT I, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE US MAKE THAT LOOK A LOT NIGHT, MORE, MORE WELCOMING TO FRONT ROYAL. 
          OKAY. 
          I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO THAT. 
          BUT WE DO HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THE FUTURELY INDUCED CATEGORIES IN THE COMP PLAN FOR THOSE QUARTERS THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO. 
          UM, IN TERMS OF MOVING, MAKING IT LESS, LESS AUTOCENTRIC. 
          SOME OF THE SIGNAGE, I WILL SAY HAS TO DO WITH THE, THE SIZE OF THE SIGNAGE IS CORRELATED TO THE, TO THE WIDTH OF THE ROAD AND THE SPEED OF THE ROAD BECAUSE IT'S A SAFETY ISSUE TO SEE, LISTEN, I'M, I'M THE LAST PERSON TO STICK UP FOR LARGE SIGNS, BUT I'M JUST, I'M JUST GONNA THROW THAT OUT THERE. 
          UM, BUT IT, IT IS POSSIBLE THAT WE COULD LOOK AT WHERE 
          [01:25:01]
COMING INTO TOWN, I THINK I'M TRYING TO WIDEN THE SCOPE MYSELF AND WHEN THAT'S MY JOB TO  KEEP US ON SCOPE, BUT LIKE WHERE, UH, THE ROAD NARROWS AND THE SPEED LOWERS, THAT COULD BE THE ENTRANCE TO TOWN AS OPPOSED TO TRYING TO, UM, I'M, LET ME, LET ME LOOK THROUGH IT AND MAKE SOME SUGGESTIONS. 
          I'M, I'M GONNA ADD, WELL ACTUALLY SLOWS ON THE BRIDGE  BEFORE YOU CAN. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT WHEN YOU SLOW DOWN, THEN THE SIGNAGE COULD GET SMALLER. 
          THEN YOU COULD TALK ABOUT, UM, BUT, BUT, AND AGAIN, WE'LL LOOK AT THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP BECAUSE WE DEFINITELY TALKED ABOUT THAT DURING THE COMP PLAN PROCESS. 
          AND SOME OF IT WAS ABOUT, UM, NOT SIGNAGE SO MUCH AS THE WAY SETBACKS HEIGHT, THE WAY THAT BUILDINGS, UH, RELATE TO THE STREET. 
          AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE LANDSCAPING REQUIREMENTS ALONG THE ENTRANCE FOUR DOORS, I THINK IT, I THINK IT'S ALMOST LIKE A, LIKE A VISIONING THING. 
          LIKE, BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE, AND I, AND THAT IS NOT MY EXPERTISE, BUT WHAT I, WHAT I WHAT I THINK ABOUT IT, I THINK OF NEW ORLEANS BEFORE THE FLOOD, BUT NEW ORLEANS, YOU KNOW, EVEN THE MCDONALD'S HAD A LOOK OF NEW ORLEANS ABOUT IT. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , YOU KNOW, AND SO WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS OUR LOOK, YOU KNOW, ARE WE, UM, YOU KNOW, IS IT ABOUT THE MOUNTAINS OR WHATEVER? AND THEN YOU, THEN YOU TAKE YOUR SIGNAGE, YOU TAKE YOUR, UM, BUILDING YOUR BUILDING COLORS, THEY ALL GO WITH THAT THEME. 
          SO, BUT IT HAS TO BE SORT OF A LARGER CONVERSATION ABOUT, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA GO WITH THIS THEME FOR OUR TOWN AND THEN EVERYTHING FOLLOWS. 
          THAT'S A GOOD POINT. 
          I GUESS THAT WAS LIKE A WINCHESTER, LIKE THE MCDONALD'S LIKE BRICK BRICK, IT KIND OF MATCHES. 
          SHE'S TALKING ABOUT COLORS AND WHICH WE CAN'T REGULATE WITH ZONING. 
          SORRY, WE WERE HAVING A SIDEBAR. 
          YOU CAN'T REGULATE COLORS WITH ZONING, BUT I'M TRYING TO, I THINK WE HAVE MUTED COLORS THEN THAT'S, I THINK THAT THAT'S A DESIGN GUIDELINE, RIGHT? THAT'S NOT LOCKED IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE UNDER THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR OVERLAY DISTRICT. 
          IT MAY BE THE ED FRIDA MEETING TODAY. 
          AND ONE OF THE QUESTIONS CAME UP FROM FRIDA IS ABOUT THE 55 QUARTER COMING IN FROM LINDA'S TWO THINGS. 
          UM, THE COUNTY HAD ON LAST YEAR'S GONE, THEY HAVE A LOT OF THING IN LAST YEAR'S GONE, BUT ABOUT FOUR LANE THAT FROM LENNON TO THE TOWN LIMITS. 
          BUT FRIDA TODAY DISCUSSED, WELL, YOU KNOW, THE TRAFFIC, BUT I THINK YOU TWO PROBABLY KNOW IT BETTER THAN ANYBODY ELSE. 
          BUT GOING OUT THERE, THE, THE ABILITY TO TURN HOW THAT SECTION REALLY FROM THE MOOSE OUT THERE LOOKS AND OBTAINING THE RIGHT OF WAY A FOUR LANE NET, IT WOULD PERHAPS CLEAN IT UP, BUT AT LEAST HAVING FOUR LANE FROM LEACHES RUN IN OVER THE HILL TO WHERE IT BECOMES FOUR LANE AGAIN. 
          SO THAT'S IN THEIR MINDS, THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT THAT. 
          WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA HEAR SOMETHING ABOUT AT SOME POINT IN TIME AS THEY GET THEIR FEET UNDER. 
          BUT I MEAN, THAT WAS A CONCERN. 
          YOU KNOW, WELCOME TO OUR AND HOW THAT LOOKS, HOW IT FEELS, THE TRAFFIC BACKUPS, THE FRUSTRATION OF PEOPLE TRYING TO, UH, GAIN ACCESS WHERE THERE ISN'T LIGHT ONTO, UH, 55 JOHN MARSHALL HIGHWAY. 
          SO, UH, THAT IS LAUREN IS THAT, THAT IS A, UM, ENTRANCE. 
          THAT IS AN ENTRANCE CORRIDOR. 
          THERE'S NO BAR COUNTER LIMITS WHAT TO COMMERCE. 
          UM, YEAH, IT IS OKAY THAT, THAT, AND IT'S REALLY NOT THAT FAR PAST LE RUN. 
          IT'S LITERALLY LIKE RIGHT THERE, STONE THROW, RIGHT PAST LEE RUN IS WHERE THE TOWN LIMITS ARE. 
          BUT WE ALSO PLACED THAT SECTION INTO, UM, WHAT IS IT, MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE. 
          UM, ALONG 55 THERE WE WERE TALKING WITH A, A CLIENT, BUT A CITIZEN THAT CAME IN. 
          THERE'S FLOOD PLAIN OVER THERE TOO. 
          SO THERE'S SOME, THERE'S SOME ADDITIONAL ISSUES BEYOND JUST TRANSPORTATION THAT WE WOULD ALSO NEED TO DEAL WITH. 
          BUT I'M JUST SAYING ANOTHER BODY IS, IS MM-HMM. 
           THINKING ALONG THIS LINE. 
          BUT FOR US, WE'LL LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, HOW MAYBE POTENTIAL ZONING REGULATIONS TO HELP BEAUTIFY AND JUST IMPROVE THE LOOK OF THESE, THESE AREAS. 
          YEAH. 
          TO JUST MENTION THEM. 
          NO, NO, THAT'S GOOD. 
          EVERY TIME I'VE MENTIONED IT, THEY'VE SAID IT WOULD BE THAT IT WOULD BE SO EXPENSIVE TO, YOU'D HAVE TO BUY ON THAT PROPERTY IN THERE MEETING WITH PROPERTIES I BELIEVE. 
          ADAM, QUESTION AS A FOOT NOTE, THAT WAS ON THE, UH, COUNTY HAS LEAST PLAN 20 YEARS AGO, I'M SURE. 
          OKAY. 
          MAYBE COULD HAVE DONE IT. 
          I THINK TODAY, I KNOW THIS ISN'T ON HERE, BUT I'M GONNA ASK, WHEN WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE TIME TO DISCUSS THINGS LIKE P AND DS AND THAT WOULD THAT, WOULD THAT BE WITH THE REWR TO THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCES? UM, SO TWEAKS TO THE PARTICULAR ZONES. 
          WELL JUST, YEAH, I MEAN LIKE, 
          [01:30:01]
UM, UM, I KNOW THAT LAUREN HAD SHARED WITH YOU, WE HAD ASSISTANT SHARE WITH US TOO, JUST SOME THINGS THAT OTHER AREAS WERE DOING WITH, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE CALLED P AND DS, BUT WHERE LIKE LOOKING AT, AT THINGS HOLISTICALLY, LIKE AS A PROJECT VERSUS, UM, AN OPEN WINDOW OF LIKE, OKAY, IF YOU HAVE THIS, YOU CAN DO THIS, THIS, THIS. 
          BUT RATHER, UM, BEING ABLE TO VERY SPECIFIC LIKE CHECKLISTS. 
          LIKE IF IT'S THIS, IF IT IMPROVE, IF IT IMPACTS THE COMMUNITY IN A POSITIVE WAY, IF IT CAN DO THIS, IF IT CAN DO THAT. 
          JUST, I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE, UH, IF THIS IS THE RIGHT FORUM FOR US TO DISCUSS THAT. 
          YOU KNOW, THAT THAT CAME BEFORE US RECENTLY AND WE, WE HAD A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS, THERE WERE MIXED THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS ABOUT SOME OF THAT BECAUSE YOU COULD SEE THE BENEFITS ON SOME THINGS, BUT YOU DIDN'T WANNA LIKE OPEN THE DOOR. 
          SO, UH, IS THIS NOT THE, WHERE WOULD THE, WHERE WOULD THAT BE? YOU AND I HAVE DISCUSSED IT, SO YOU KNOW WHERE I'M THINKING, BUT WHERE, WHEN WHEN'S THE APPROPRIATE TIME TO DISCUSS THAT? YOU KNOW, THE BACKGROUND MORE THAN I. 
          MORE THAN I DO. 
          SO WITH THIS, I MEAN, I THINK THAT WE'RE GONNA MAKE SOME RECOMMENDED CHANGES TO EACH OF THE ZONES. 
          I THINK THAT WE CAN INCORPORATE SOME OF THESE CHANGES OR SOME EDITS INTO THE P AND D ZONE. 
          IT'S GONNA GET VETTED THROUGH PLANNING COMMISSION WITH THIS ONE. 
          UM, I THINK THIS, I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO DO IT AT THIS TIME. 
          UM, AND I'M GONNA GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT WE'VE ALL HAD THIS CONVERSATION BEFORE THAT THEN PLANNING SENDS IT TO COUNCIL. 
          SO IT NEEDS TO COUNSEL, BUT PLANNING COMMISSION'S JOB TO VET THE LANGUAGE AND GET IN THE WEEDS. 
          IT'S NOT COUNSEL'S JOB NECESSARILY. 
          RIGHT. 
          TO RIGHT. 
          BUT COUNSEL WILL ULTIMATELY BE THE ONES TO APPROVE IT OR NOT APPROVE IT. 
          YOU ARE. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, LIKE, THIS SEEMS LIKE THE PLACE TO HAVE KIND THESE KINDS OF CONVERSATIONS. 
          LIKE WHAT ARE, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT LOOKING FOR? WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE, I MEAN, I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING WITH THIS, WITH THE P AND D DISCUSSION NEEDS TO BE, DO YOU WANNA SEE ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS OR PERFORMANCE STANDARDS BEYOND WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE? SO RIGHT NOW IT'S SET UP TO WHERE THERE WOULD NEED TO BE A MINIMUM OF SEVEN WORK SESSIONS AND SEVEN PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR A P AND D REZONING TO, TO HAPPEN. 
          UM, DO YOU WANT ADDITIONAL STEPS? DO YOU WANT ADDITIONAL STUDIES? LIKE THAT'S, THOSE ARE LIKE THE KIND OF CHANGES I CAN WRITE INTO THE P AND D SECTION OR DO YOU NOT THE ACREAGE, LIKE WE WON'T, YOU DON'T WANNA TOUCH THE ACREAGE? I DON'T, NO. 
          DO WE DO, WHEN DO WE HAVE THAT DISCUSSION? I MEAN, IT'S OKAY IF IT'S NOT TONIGHT AND IF IT ISN'T, I FINE, BUT, BUT AT SOME POINT THAT DISCUSSION NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE AND GET PUBLIC INPUT. 
          I KNOW IT'S YOUR, I KNOW IT'S, THIS MIGHT D DERAIL THE WHOLE PROCESS. 
           AND WELL, I'VE BEEN FOLLOWING AND, AND READING NEWSPAPER ARTICLES YEAH. 
          AND TALKING TO LAUREN AND SO THAT, THAT'S MY, IF YOU SAW A LOOK ON MY FACE ABOUT THAT, IT'S ONLY BECAUSE I, BECAUSE I'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THAT, THAT PROCESS. 
          I KNOW. 
          UM, BUT, BUT PART OF IT IS IF, IF THE TOWN COUNCIL AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION ARE IN ALIGNMENT, IF YOU'VE GONE THROUGH THAT DISCUSSION, BUT SEE, WELL, I MEAN IT'S LIKE WE'RE KIND OF IN THE LIMIT, BUT THEN WHEN BY THE TIME IT GETS TO US, USUALLY THERE'S LIKE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION OR THERE'S ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATION AND RIGHT. 
          LIKE, WELL, FOR US, I THINK, WELL FOR ME FOR, LET ME JUST SAY FOR ME, LIKE THE ISSUE CAME THAT CAME BEFORE I COULDN'T IN GOOD CONSCIOUS TAKE, UM, GO THAT DECISION BECAUSE IT WAS TOO BIG OF AN I A POTENTIAL IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY TO GO AGAINST. 
          IT WASN'T LIKE A PARKING STANDARD. 
          LIKE TO ME, A PARKING SPAN STANDARD WOULD HAVE A VERY LIMITED IMPACT IF I MADE THE WRONG DECISION. 
          BUT IF WITH THE P AND D, IT WAS GONNA IMPACT A LOT OF, UM, A LOT OF FOLKS AND A LOT OF GOOD BUSINESS. 
          AND IN RESPONSE TO THAT, THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT BECAUSE WHEN I SAW THE PLANNING COMMISSION, I LOOK AT WHAT OUR COMP PLAN SAYS AND I LOOK AT HOW I INTERPRET THAT COMP PLAN. 
          NOW, IF I'M INTERPRETING IT DIFFERENT THAN TOWN COUNCIL IS, THEN AT SOME POINT WE NEED TO HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH TOWN COUNCIL PLANNING COMMISSION ABOUT HOW WE'RE INTERPRETING THE COMP PLAN BECAUSE BOTH OF US UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED OUR COMP PLAN, RIGHT. 
          AND YET WE APPROVED SOMETHING THAT GOT DENIED BY THE TOWN. 
          AND I DON'T DISRESPECT THE TOWN FOR DOING THAT, BUT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT I MIS DID I MISUNDERSTAND HOW THE TOWN INTERPRETED THE COMP PLAN BASED UPON HOW I INTERPRETED THE COMP PLAN? MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND THAT'S WHY I WAS SAYING THESE CONVERSATIONS, I DO THINK IT WOULD BEHOOVE US TO TALK ABOUT LIKE FOR, 
          [01:35:01]
FOR REALLY IN SIMPLISTIC TERMS IS SO THAT PEOPLE, CITIZENS, DEVELOPER, WHOEVER, SO THAT THEY CAN BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT IS IT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. 
          YOU KNOW, EVEN IN MY OWN JOB WHEN SOMEBODY COMES DOWN AND SAYS, WE NEED THIS, THIS, THIS, OKAY. 
          AND YOU DO SOMETHING AND THEY GO, NO, NO, NO, NOT THAT, DO IT AGAIN. 
          OKAY. 
          DO DO TAKE IT BACK. 
          NO, NOT REALLY THAT WAY. 
          YOU KNOW WHAT, JUST TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT AND I DO IT. 
          AND THAT'S WHERE I FEEL LIKE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE THAT ARE APPLYING, THEY WANT TO, THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT IS. 
          YOU KNOW, WHAT IS, WHAT IS IT WE'RE LOOKING FOR? WHERE, WHERE ARE WE GOING WITH THIS? YOU WHAT DEVELOPMENT OR DO YOU NOT WANNA YEAH, THAT THAT'S, THAT'S, AND THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHERE I, THIS MAY NOT BE FOR YOU, YOU THIS MUST BE, THIS MIGHT. 
          NO, I MEAN THIS MAY NOT BE PART OF YOUR, UH, YOUR UH, SCOPE, BUT THIS IS THE FIRST COME THIS, THIS PLANNING COMMISSION AND THIS TOWN COUNCIL HAVE SAT TOGETHER, PERIOD. 
          UM, BUT THAT'S A US PROBLEM, NOT A HER PROBLEM. 
          YEAH. 
          NO, NO, NO, NO. 
          THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING THOUGH IS, IS THAT THIS IS THE FIRST OPPORTUNITY THAT WE HAVE SAT DOWN AND HAD DISCUSSIONS AND MAYBE THIS IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO, WITH THE PD AND WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TALKING AT THIS TABLE TOGETHER LIKE WE ARE NOW ABOUT IT. 
          RIGHT? RIGHT. 
          RATHER THAN RIGHT, WE MADE OUR DECISION BASED ON WHAT WE WERE GIVEN, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DO. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND THEN IT WENT TO SOME PEOPLE THAT WERE INTERFERED WITH BASED ON FACEBOOK, BASED ON PHONE CALLS BASED ON THIS PERSON SAID THIS. 
          AND INSTEAD OF GOING BY THAT IT SHOULD HAVE AGAIN BEEN LET'S GO TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND UNDERSTAND WHAT P AND D IS AND WHAT THE PROCESS IS. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. 
          IT DIED. 
          RIGHT. 
          DON'T, AND THE, AND THE COUNCIL MEMBERS, I JUST WANNA SAY TOO, THEY'RE ELECTED BODIES AND SO THEY LIST, YOU KNOW, THEY REPRESENT THE CITIZENS OF WHAT THE CITIZENS' INPUT IS. 
          AND AGAIN, I'M GOING BACK TO THE REASON WHY I BROUGHT IT UP IS, IS THAT IT'S A TOPIC WE NEED. 
          WE, WE NEED TO LOOK AT, WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT WE'VE GOT THE COMP PLAN, IT'S A, GOD, IT'S TELLING US WHAT WE SHOULD DO. 
          BUT WE NEED TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT WHAT IS IT WE'RE LOOKING FOR? WHAT SAFEGUARDS DO WE WANT IN PLACE? YOU KNOW, WHAT WHAT WE WANT TO SEE AND GO FROM THERE BECAUSE I, I, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK THAT, I THINK THE CONVERSATION NEEDS TO BE HAD, THAT'S ALL. 
          AND LIKE I SAID, IT MIGHT NOT BE UNDER YOUR PART, BUT MAYBE WE JUST NEED TO SCHEDULE ANOTHER MEETING WITH THESE TWO BODIES AGAIN TO TALK ABOUT STUFF. 
          SO FIRST OF ALL, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE I, THIS IS A GREAT CONVERSATION. 
          I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE TO WATCH IT. 
          THE OTHER THING THAT MAYOR COCKRELL THAT YOU, THAT YOU SAID IS, UM, YOU DON'T HAVE BASIC EXPECTATIONS OUTLINED YET OF, YOU KNOW, OF WHAT THE TOWN IS LOOKING FOR IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT. 
          AND SO THERE ARE MANY OTHER CONVERSATIONS. 
          BUT IN SO FAR AS MY ROLE RIGHT NOW IS TO HELP SHEPHERD JUST THE ZONING ORDINANCE FOR YOU RIGHT THROUGH I I I AM NOT SAYING ALL THAT. 
          THESE OTHER CONVERSATIONS ARE NOT VERY IMPORTANT. 
          BUT AGAIN, GOING BACK TO THE BEGINNING, THE ZONING ORDINANCE REWRITE IS ABOUT ESTABLISHING THOSE BASICS, THOSE RULES, HELPING STAFF, YOU KNOW, NOT HAVE TO MAKE ARBITRARY DECISIONS AND HAVE SOMEONE GET MAD AT THEM, BUT SAY IT'S CLEARLY WRITTEN HERE. 
          AND THEN ALSO TO IMPLEMENT THE PARTS THAT ARE CLEAR OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. 
          AND SO I THINK IT, I THINK IT'S WONDERFUL. 
          I HOPE THERE ARE MANY OTHER CONVERSATIONS IN COLLABORATION BETWEEN THESE TWO BODIES. 
          BUT FOR, FOR THE ZONING ORDINANCE, UM, I WRAP IT UP. 
          BUT WHAT WE COULD POTENTIALLY DO IS IF YOU WANNA HAVE A JOINT MEETING TO DISCUSS THE P AND D ZONES IN PARTICULAR, I FEEL LIKE WE'RE PRETTY COMFORTABLE LIKE MAKING SOME RECOMMENDATIONS TO SOME USES MAYBE SHIFTING THIS USE TO A SPECIAL USE PERMIT IN THE OTHER ZONES. 
          WE CAN HAVE ANOTHER JOINT MEETING POTENTIALLY TO DISCUSS P AND D. 
          BECAUSE I THINK THAT PART OF WHAT HAPPENED IS THERE WASN'T A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING OF BOTH BODIES OF WHAT THE P AND D CRITERIA ARE. 
          SO SEF, I NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF MAKING SURE YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND THE EXACT PROCESS BECAUSE FOR P AND D REZONING, IT IS A VERY ARDUOUS PROCESS EVEN HERE IN THIS TOWN. 
          WELL THAT, THAT KIND OF ADDS ON WHAT I WAS SAYING THAT, AND I AGREE WITH MELISSA, BUT THAT'S WHY I VOTED THE WAY I DID BECAUSE I JUST SIMPLY DIDN'T THINK IT WASN'T, IT WASN'T A PART AGAINST PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          I WAS SETTING THE PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          IT WAS JUST A FACT. 
          I DIDN'T, I JUST COULDN'T PIVOT SOMETHING LIKE THAT WITH EVERYTHING THAT WAS COMING IN WITH ONE, ONE APPLICATION THAT, AND THAT'S WHY I SAID, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY I MADE IT TO MEAN. 
          SO SOMETHING THAT OF THAT MAGNITUDE, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA AFFECT WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO HERE. 
          IT'S GONNA AFFECT WHAT LADYSHIP EARTH IS TALKING TO US RIGHT NOW ABOUT. 
          AND I JUST DIDN'T THINK THAT IT WAS FAIR TO SET IT UP ON LIKE ONE LITMUS TEST FOR THAT WHOLE YOU, FOR THAT WHOLE THING. 
          THAT, THAT'S HOW I LOOKED AT IT. 
          AGAIN, YOU 
          [01:40:01]
YOU KIND OF STATE REASON WHY I VOTED WAY OF OATH, YOU KNOW, AND, AND MOVING FORWARD WHAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING TO DO IS FIND MAYBE EVEN, 'CAUSE LAUREN'S GONNA DO SOME RESEARCH WITH SOME, SOME PLACES TOO, OR AT LEAST A PLACE I CAN THINK OF IS LIKE, HOW DID THEY HANDLE SOME OF THESE THINGS? LIKE I ALWAYS SAY, LET'S FIND OUT WHO DID IT WRONG , AND ASK THEM WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY IF YOU COULD BEFORE YOU, YOU KNOW, BECAME SOME OF THESE PLACES THAT COULDN'T SHUT THE DOOR AND IT WAS OUTTA CONTROL. 
          LIKE WHAT COULD, WHAT COULD YOU DO DIFFERENTLY SO WE COULD GET INPUT FROM ALL THOSE PLACES. 
          SO IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU NEED FROM US ABOUT REWRITING THE ZONING OR REVISIONS TO THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCES? IS THERE ANY OTHER TOPICS THAT YOU ALL THINK NEED TO BE A DISCUSSION FOR US? ANYBODY ELSE? ANYTHING ELSE? SO WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS SHORT TERM RENTALS AT SOME POINT CHECK THAT'S ON OUR LIST. 
          WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS P AND DS AT SOME POINT CHECK THAT'S ON OUR LIST. 
          'CAUSE I KNOW SOME OF YOU'RE THINKING, BUT, SO ANYTHING ELSE? AS, AS MUCH AS MY FAVORITE MEETING IS THE CANCELED ONE. 
          MM-HMM. 
          . 
          AND MY SECOND FAVORITE ONE IS THE SHORT ONE. 
          I I I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE US GET TOGETHER AGAIN AND MAKE SURE WE'RE AT LEAST SOMEWHERE ON NEAR THE SAME PAGE ON HOW WE'RE READING THE COMP PLAN BECAUSE I DON'T NOTICE DISRESPECT AND, AND YOU GUYS WERE FRIENDS MAN, BUT, BUT I, I I I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE ANYWHERE CLOSE AND, AND I DON'T, I WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM SO THAT I DON'T GET EMBARRASSED WHEN I'M HAVING A DISCUSSION WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. 
          I DON'T THINK I'VE VOTED WITH YOU GUYS ON THIS. 
          WELL I DON'T, DON'T, I DON'T CARE HOW YOU THAT THAT, THAT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH HOW I THINK ABOUT YOU. 
          WELL MY CONCERN IS, I WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT, HOW YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE COMP PLAN. 
          SO I WANNA KNOW HOW YOU ALL VOTED UNANIMOUSLY ON THAT. 
          SO HOW IS THAT POSSIBLY DIFFERENT THAN HOW WE VOTED UNANIMOUSLY SO THAT WE CAN FIGURE THIS OUT? THAT THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT. 
          YEAH, WELL THAT'S, THAT'S JUST, IT'S NOT THE WHOLE THING. 
          I MEAN I THINK, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S NOT HER PROBLEM. 
          I THINK THAT WAS JUST THIS ONE PARTICULAR, THIS RECENT VOTE, YOU KNOW, WITH THE P YEAH. 
          BUT, BUT IT STILL, IT STILL GOES BACK TO THE HOW WE'RE LOOKING AT THE COMP PLAN. 
          AND I DON'T WANT THIS PLAYING OUT ON FACEBOOK AND WITH PEOPLE DOING SIDE THINGS. 
          WHEREVER YOU GUYS ARE BEEN FRIENDS FOR GOD, LET'S FIGURE THIS OUT. 
          WELL FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE NOT MAKE ANY DECISIONS FROM FACEBOOK 'CAUSE MY GUY  DISCIPLINES, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. 
          WELL I DON'T DOUBT THAT IT'S FAKE BOOK. 
          NO, I, ONE OTHER, ONE OTHER THING THOUGH THAT I THOUGHT ABOUT TONIGHT WHEN WE STARTED THIS CONVERSATION TOO, IT'S LIKE WITH THE COMP PLAN AND THINGS, WHEN ALL THAT WAS IN PLACE, I JUST WANNA THROW THIS OUT THERE. 
          WE HAD A VERY IMPORTANT WORK SESSION LAST MONDAY NIGHT WHERE, UM, CHA SHARED SOME INFORMATION WITH US ABOUT WATER CAPACITY AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 
          AND I WILL BE HONEST WITH YOU, IT WAS ENLIGHTENING BECAUSE THEY TOLD US ABOUT CERTAIN AREAS YES. 
          THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY PEOPLE THOUGHT WE DID. 
          AND I THINK, I MEAN I REFLECT ON, WE MAY BE, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE LOOKED AT WHEN WE WERE DOING WHERE DENSITY SHOULD BE HERE AND WHERE THIS SHOULD BE HERE. 
          BECAUSE IF WE DON'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THAT TO HAPPEN, WE EITHER GOTTA GET THE INFRASTRUCTURE OR THAT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT WASN'T, UM, YEAH. 
          SO THERE'S TIMES YOU GUYS, I LIKE, I FEEL LIKE PLANNING COMMISSION MADE THE RIGHT DECISION BASED ON THE INFORMATION YOU HAD BEFORE YOU AND LIKE I MIGHT HAVE GONE WITH YOU OR YOU KNOW, FOLLOWED YOUR, YOU KNOW, DIRECTION EXCEPT FOR FURTHER INFORMATION THAT I GOT BETWEEN THAT TIME. 
          YOU KNOW, SO THAT, AND THAT HAPPENS, THAT HAPPENS FREQUENTLY. 
          I THINK. 
          I DON'T EXPECT YOU PEOPLE TO BE A RUBBER STAND FOR US. 
          I JUST EXPECT, I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING. 
          YEAH. 
          RIGHT. 
          BUT IF THERE ARE DOUBTS THIS LIKE TOWN COUNCIL CAN ALWAYS SEND THINGS BACK TO PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          JUST THAT, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE INFORMATION THAT Y'ALL ARE GETTING AS ACCURATE TOO. 
          YEAH, I THINK, I THINK WE COULD WORK THIS OUT. 
          THANK YOU. 
          SO NOTHING ELSE THAT WE NEED TO DO HERE, RIGHT? NO, THE NEXT STEP IS, WE'LL WE'LL GET THE DRAFT READY AND I WILL, I WILL BE BRINGING THAT DRAFT TO PLANNING COMMISSION. 
          WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION OFFLINE IF WE WANNA, SO THE REVIEW OF THE DRAFT ORDINANCE WILL BE IN THE SUMMER. 
          THE GOAL? THE GOAL, NO. 
          AND I ONLY LAUGH 'CAUSE I REMEMBER THE TIMELINE OF THE  TIMELINE WAS 18 MONTHS. 
          YEAH, YEAH. 
          THERE'S A LOT BEHIND THAT. 
          THERE'S A DREAM. 
          YEAH, I AM KIDDING. 
          BECAUSE THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, I'LL MAKE A MOTION. 
          YES. 
          HOLD ON. 
          WE WERE FOLLOWING UP WITH THE TIMELINE. 
          SO SUMMER OF 
          [01:45:01]
2024, THEY'RE GONNA BRING BACK TO PLANNING A DRAFT THE PLANNING COMMISSION BEFORE IT COMES BACK TO COUNCIL QUARTER MEETING TOO. 
          WELL, WE'LL WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT WITH THEM. 
          SO IT'S 8 45. 
          WE DON'T NEED ANY NEED, ANYTHING ELSE. 
          RIGHT. 
          ALRIGHT, SO WE'RE GONNA ADJOURN UNLESS YOU ADJOURN. 
          YEAH, I WAS DOING, THANK YOU ALL.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.