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THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MEETING TO ORDER, AND,[Board of Zoning Appeals on February 20, 2024.]
UH, ON FEBRUARY, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 20 20TH, 2024 AT 7:02 PM AND WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GO WITH A ROLL CALL TO MS. POTTER.CAN YOU DO THAT, PLEASE? MM-HMM.
WE'LL BEGIN BY, UM, ELECTING OFFICERS.
SO, IS THERE A MOTION TO NOMINATE ANYBODY AS CHAIRMAN? I WOULD NOMINATE CHAIRMAN, OR I WOULD NOMINATE CHAIRMAN MCCARTHY.
UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? MS. POTTER ROLL CALL PLEASE.
FOR VICE CHAIRMAN, IS THERE A MOTION TO NOMINATE? I NOMINATE YOU.
I ALSO
I FEEL LIKE THAT'S LIKE A, A PREREQUISITE FOR THAT.
UH, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? UH, MS. UH, POTTER ROLL CALL, PLEASE.
WELL, YOU CALLED IT THE VOTE FOR AYE, SO WE'RE GOOD.
UH, MS. KAKI WILL BE REVIEWING, UH, THE ITEMS BELOW.
SO I THINK THE FIRST, UM, NAME TONE, EMAIL BYLAWS, THE BYLAWS.
UM, EACH YEAR, THIS BOARD CONVENES TYPICALLY IN FEBRUARY, AND YOU'RE JUST TO REVIEW YOUR BYLAWS.
SO AT THIS POINT, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT BYLAWS OR IF YOU WANNA MAKE ANY CHANGES, WE CAN TELL US WHAT CHANGES YOU WANT MADE.
OTHER THAN THAT, IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH THEM, WE'LL JUST KEEP 'EM AS IS.
IS IT WORTH WAITING TO REVIEW THEM UNTIL WE HAVE A FULL BOARD OR SO? YEAH.
I MEAN, IF YOU GUYS LIKE TO JUST, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, IF YOU'RE OKAY WITH KEEPING THEM AS IS NOW WE CAN DO THAT.
AND THEN WHEN YOU GET A, WHEN WE GET A FULL BOARD, WE CAN ALWAYS REVIEW THEM.
I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT BECAUSE I, THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONS AND STUFF AND LOUIS HAD MENTIONED SOME STUFF LAST TIME THAT IT SEEMED LIKE MAYBE IT WOULD BE MAKE SENSE TO MAKE SOME CHANGES, BUT BECAUSE I'M LIKE, I DON'T WANT TO SAY LET'S WAIT TILL NEXT FEBRUARY, BUT I DON'T FEEL COMPETENT RIGHT NOW TO YEAH.
I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT WE WOULD BE, UM, CHANGING AT THIS MOMENT.
I KNOW WHEN WE LOOKED AT IT LIKE A YEAR AGO, WE SAID THAT WE WANTED TO LOOK INTO THAT, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER AT, UM, WHAT THOSE WERE.
THE ONLY THING THAT'S COMING TO MY MIND IS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN ATTORNEY IS NOT, DOES NOT REPRESENT THE PA MM-HMM.
SO I THINK THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT, UM, PROVIDING LEGAL COUNSEL FOR THIS BOARD.
UM, BUT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD ADDRESS IN THE BYLAWS AND EVENTUALLY YOU'D HAVE TO TAKE THAT UP WITH COUNSEL TO PROVIDE MM-HMM.
BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DISCUSS AT THE NEXT, OR ONCE WE HAVE A FULL YEAH.
AND THEN THE NEXT ONE, SOME EMAILS.
SO ON THE TOWN PLANNING AND ZONING WEBSITE, WE HAVE A TAB FOR THE BOARD OF UNION APPEAL THAT HAS THIS ONE COURT EMAIL TO CONTACT EVERYBODY.
THE PURPOSE OF THAT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT EACH BOARD MEMBER GETS ALL PUBLIC COMMENT AT THE SAME TIME.
SO IF SOMEBODY CLICKS ON THAT, THEY SEND, IT GOES TO EVERYBODY, IT GOES TO MYSELF AND IT GOES TO CONNIE, MR. THE CLERK.
WE ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO KEEP RECORDS OF THAT CORRESPONDENCE.
SO FOR YOU GUYS, OUR ADVICE WOULD BE THAT YOU DON'T DIRECTLY RESPOND BEYOND A RECEIPT.
UM, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS ANY TYPE OF PUBLIC COMMENT, YOU SHOULD DO SO HEARING AND SAY YOU SHOULDN'T ELEVATE PUBLIC COMMENT THAT ABOVE SOMEBODY THAT ACTUALLY WAS ATED SAID THE BEST WAY TO ADDRESS IT IS JUST TO ADDRESS IT.
JUST RESPOND BACK WHATEVER YOU WOULD TYPE ME IN.
YOU SAY SO, SORRY, JUST, JUST WANT SAY YOU WOULD SAY RECEIVED AND THEN TELL THEM TO COME TO THE PUBLIC MEETING.
IF YOU RESPOND AT ALL, IT SHOULD BE NO MORE THAN JUST RECEIPT.
YOU DON'T WANNA GET IN THE CONFERENCE BACK BEFORE.
YEAH, BUT I'M JUST SAYING, SHOULD YOU DIRECT THEM TO COME TO THE MEETING? BECAUSE YOU SAID YOU DON'T READ THE EMAIL ALOUD AT THE MEETING.
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IS THAT NOBODY HERE SHOULD BE READING.IF SOMEBODY SENDS AN EMAIL AND SAYS, THIS IS MY PUBLIC COMMENT, IT SHOULDN'T BE READ AT THE MEETING BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T COME.
CAN ACTUALLY VERIFY THAT IT WAS THEM.
SO, AND ALSO, LIKE, I THINK WHAT YOU WERE SAYING IS ELEVATES THE IMPORTANCE OF IT AS WELL.
LIKE WHY IS THERE SO IMPORTANT THAT IT SHOULD BE READ? I GOTCHA.
AND IS THAT, DOES THAT BECOME YOUR OPINION? THAT TYPE OF THING.
SO IT GETS INTO ALL THESE LITTLE, LIKE, LEGAL ISSUES.
SO, UM, I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING IS JUST BE CAREFUL HOW YOU RESPOND.
THAT YOU DON'T GET INTO A ONE-ON-ONE CONVERSATION WITH SOMEBODY THAT'S OUTSIDE OF THE REST OF THE GROUP AND OUTSIDE OF PUBLIC RECORD AT THAT POINT.
UM, BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR PEOPLE THAT MAY BE IMPACTED OR FOR THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.
THEY, IF IT'S IMPORTANT TO THEM, THEY NEED TO SHOW.
SO THEN HOW DO WE HANDLE THEM THEN? EVERY EMAIL.
WHAT IF IT'S, UH, I MEAN, WHAT IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T NEED REALLY TO BE ADDRESSED? DO WE JUST DISREGARD IT? UM, OR I MEAN, DO, DO WE RECORD? WE'LL HAVE IT AS MEETING WITH EVERY EMAIL THAT WE'VE RECEIVED.
DO YOU TALK ABOUT IT? I MEAN, WE, WE WILL KEEP IT AS PUBLIC RECORD IF IT'S NOT RELEVANT TO THAT, LIKE TO A PARTICULAR PUBLIC HEARING.
IT'LL BE INCLUDED IN THE STAFF REPORT FOR YOU REVIEW.
THIS WILL BE READ AT THE MEETING.
YOU'LL, EACH OF YOU WILL HAVE A, I DON'T SAY A COPY OF IT NOW, BUT DIGITALLY YOU'LL HAVE HAVE THE EMAIL FOR YOU TO REVIEW PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC HEARING AND IT'S SET UP FOR YOUR TOWN EMAIL ADDRESS.
ARE YOU, IS EVERYBODY USING THAT NOW? MM-HMM,
SO I CAN STOP SENDING IT TO YOUR PERSONAL AS WELL.
I MEAN, MY ONLY THING IS LIKE, IF YOU DON'T HEAR BACK, LIKE I'M PRETTY RESPONSIVE, SO IF YOU DON'T HEAR BACK, I MEAN, I STILL, LIKE, I CAN SEE IT'S BEEN SINKING FINE NOW, SO I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ISSUE WAS.
THINK THE EXACT SAME THING I DID BEFORE.
SO THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT MAKES ME WORRIED.
SO IF YOU DON'T HEAR FROM ME, JUST REACH OUT TO ME AND MAKE YEAH, YEAH.
'CAUSE YEAH, NO, I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD.
SO FAR, YOU SHOULD WANT TO PROTECT YOUR PERSONALITY.
YEAH, NO, THAT CAN BE FOR YOU.
AND I JUST, JUST CHECK IT, YOU KNOW, ONCE A MONTH.
I MEAN, IF IT'S, HOW MANY EMAILS ARE WE GETTING? REALLY? I JUST SEND THEM TO YOU FOR THE MEETING.
LIKE I'LL SEND ONE, WHEN WE GET AN APPLICATION IN, I USUALLY WILL SEND ONE OUT AND SAY, HEY, WE GOT AN APPLICATION, ARE YOU AVAILABLE FOR THE MEETING? LET ME KNOW.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, THE WEEK BEFORE THE MEETING, USUALLY BY THE END OF THAT WEEK I SEND YOU GUYS THE AGENDA.
THAT'S KIND OF, THAT'S USUALLY THE ONLY COMMITTEE, BUT I GUESS I'M THINKING ABOUT LIKE WHY WE ARE SETTING UP THAT, UM, ONLINE, JUST SO THAT, JUST FOR THE SAKE OF TRANSPARENCY, SO THAT PEOPLE IN THE PUBLIC CAN'T SAY THAT WE ARE GATEKEEPING OR THAT WE ARE WITHHOLDING OKAY.
SO LIKE IF THEY SEND IT TO US, THEY, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T SAY, WELL, YOU DIDN'T FORWARD IT ON TO YOU GUYS.
OH, SO THIS IS NEW THAT YOU'RE SETTING UP? YEAH, THIS IS NEW.
ALL THE BOARDS ARE GETTING, I THOUGHT THIS WAS ALREADY, I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST AN Y GET EMAILS IN THE PAST, IF SOMEBODY WOULD CALL US, WE WOULD ALWAYS, OR IF THEY SEND AN EMAIL, WE AUTOMATICALLY SEND IT TO THE, TO THE BOARD.
UM, BUT I THINK BECAUSE SOMETIMES BOARD MEMBERS DON'T RESPOND, THERE WAS THIS IDEA THAT STAFF WAS PREVENTING PUBLIC COMMENT FROM
SO THEN IT'S PROBABLY IN OUR BEST INTEREST TO RESPOND WITH RECEIVED.
IT GIVES SOME SORT OF RESPONSE.
I USUALLY TRY TO DO THAT FOR THE MEETINGS AND STUFF TOO, JUST, YEAH.
WELL, IT'S HELPFUL TO ME THEN I DON'T HAVE TO PICK UP THE PHONE AND SAY, HEY, DID YOU GET IT? YEAH.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT FOUR BOARDS AND THAT'S A LOT OF PEOPLE, THIS TRANSPARENCY.
I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF YOU GOT ANY
BUT IF YOU DO, I MEAN, CONSIDERING WE'VE HAD LIKE TWO MEETINGS IN THE LAST YEAR, I WOULD BE SURPRISED, YOU KNOW, AND, AND ANOTHER JURISDICTIONS WHERE LIKE THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MEETS EVERY MONTH BECAUSE THEY HEAR SPECIAL USE PERMITS.
COUNTY COUNCIL HAS NOT DELEGATED THAT AUTHORITY TO YOU.
UM, I WOULD BE SURPRISED, BUT YOU NEVER KNOW
WHAT'S THE NEXT STAFF TRAINING? STAFF TRAINING.
I PROVIDED YOU WITH A LOT OF DOCUMENTS HERE.
WE ARE NOT GONNA GO OVER EACH AND EVERY ONE.
UM, THESE CHAPTERS ARE FROM THE ALBEMARLE COUNTY LAND USE LAW HANDBOOK.
A LOT OF YOUR BCA TRAINING COMES FROM THIS.
ALL OF OUR LEGAL ZONE ADMINISTRATOR TRAINING COMES FROM THIS HANDBOOK.
IT, IT'S A WONDERFUL RESOURCE, BUT BASICALLY
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EVERYTHING THAT WE DO IS STARTED IN STATE CODE.WE ARE DILLON'S LAW STATE, RIGHT.
SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY AUTHORITY THAT'S NOT DELEGATED TO US BY THE STATE.
EVERYTHING FOR CITIES, TOWNS, AND COUNTIES IS DESIGNATED OR DELEGATED TO US BY, UM, 15.2 22 IS WHERE IT STARTS.
THESE CHAPTERS JUST KIND OF GIVE YOU THE IMPORTANT INFORMATION.
SO CHAPTER TWO IS JUST AN FYI TYPE OF CHAPTER.
THIS IS JUST THE ORIGINS OF ZONING POWER WHERE ZONING CAME FROM.
UM, AND THEN CHAPTER 16, ONE OF YOUR DUTIES AS THE BZA IS TO HEAR APPEALS OF THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR.
I GAVE YOU THIS CHAPTER SO THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS THAT JOHN AND I TAKE WHEN WE, I GUESS, ISSUE A ZONING DETERMINATION.
SO, AND THIS IS GUIDANCE ON HOW TO INTERPRET STATUTES AND ORDINANCES, WHICH IS WHAT THE BDA YOU'RE GONNA BE DOING.
SO IF SOMEBODY APPEALS A ZONING ADMINISTRATOR'S DETERMINATION, THIS IS KIND OF YOUR GUIDE AS TO HOW YOU ALSO CAN INTERPRET THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH STAFF'S INTERPRETATION.
UM, AND THEN CHAPTER 15 AGAIN, IS THE APPEALS OF THE DECISIONS OF THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR.
UM, THIS JUST KIND OF BREAKS DOWN YOUR, YOUR ROLE.
SO, UM, IT OUTLINES WHO CAN FILE AN APPEAL, UM, THE TIMEFRAME, JUST THE GENERAL PROCESS.
YEAH, CHAPTER 14 IS KIND OF THE SAME THING.
UM, CHAPTER EIGHT, I PROVIDED YOU THAT BECAUSE THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS IS QUASI-JUDICIAL.
SO IN OUR REALM, YOU HAVE THE LEGISLATIVE ACTS, WHICH IS TO COUNCIL, MINISTERIAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE ARE BASICALLY WHAT JOHN AND I DO.
AND THEN QUASI-JUDICIAL IS WHERE THE BVA CALLS.
SO THERE IS A CHART HERE ON HOW THESE ARE MADE.
UM, IT KIND OF OUTLINES WHAT
SO EIGHT DASH 500, THAT'S REALLY THE, THE BREAD AND BUTTER OF, OF WHAT YOU GUYS NEED TO, TO KNOW.
I PUT ALL THIS IN HERE FOR A REASON.
AND THEN CHAPTER ONE IS JUST ESTABLISHING, UH, THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN TOWNS AND COUNTIES.
UM, THE CITIES WERE COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT OF THE COUNTY THAT THEY WERE IN.
TOWNS WE ARE INCORPORATED, WE ARE PART OF THE COUNTY.
SO ALL TOWN CITIZENS AS, UH, COUNCIL, I SAY, ARE ALSO COUNTY CITIZENS.
UM, BUT THIS SECTION ESTABLISHES THE BV ITSELF.
SO YOUR AUTHORITY IS TO HEAR THE APPEALS OF DECISIONS WITH THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR TO HEAR VARIANCES.
IT CAN BE FOR SPECIAL USE PERMITS, BUT NOT IN THIS, UH, TOWN.
AND THEN YOU CAN ALSO, YOU ALSO HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO INTERPRET THE ZONING MAP.
UM, AND IT IS IMPORTANT THAT BCA DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO REZONE THE PROPERTY TO REZONE ANY PROPERTY, BUT YOU ARE AUTHORIZED TO INTERPRET THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, AND THEN THE MOST IMPORTANT CHAPTER I GAVE YOU IS CHAPTER 13.
THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT TO KNOW, FORWARDS AND BACKWARDS.
THIS IS EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE ON VARIANCES.
UM, I THINK VARIANCES IN THIS CASE ARE GOING TO BE THE ITEM THAT COMES BEFORE YOU MOST OFTEN AND THEY'RE TRICKY.
UM, BUT WE, SO WHEN WE GET AN APPLICATION FOR A VARIANCE, IT'S NOT STAFF'S PLACE TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S APPROPRIATE OR NOT.
IT IS OUR PLACE TO JUST TAKE THAT APPLICATION.
WE WOULD PROVIDE YOU WITH A STAFF REPORT.
WE'LL TRY TO SORT OUT THE RELEVANT FACTS FROM ANYTHING IRRELEVANT.
AND THEN IT'S UP TO YOU GUYS TO KIND OF MAKE THE DECISION.
AND WITH THE VARIANCE, IT'S, UM, IT'S A REASONABLE DEVIATION, UM, FROM THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO IT ALLOWS SOMEBODY TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS OUTSIDE OF THE ORDINANCE, WHEREAS LIKE SPECIAL USE PERMIT ALLOWS THEM TO, TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS ALREADY LEGAL, BUT JUST GIVES THEM, JUST ALLOWS RELIEF FROM THE ORDINANCES.
UM, AND WITH THE HEARING, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE APPLICANT.
AND THEN YOU HAVE TO, I THINK THERE'S
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FIVE DIFFERENT, UM, CRITERIA THAT HAVE TO BE MET IN ORDER FOR YOU TO, THOSE CRITERIA AREN'T MET OR AREN'T PROVEN.UM, BUT THIS IS THE, I CAN'T STRESS ENOUGH, YOU NEED TO KNOW THIS CHAPTER.
IS THERE A WAY FOR US TO CREATE A CHECKLIST FOR US SO THAT IF WE DO GET A APPLICATION, THEN WE, THOSE FIVE, IT'S IN THE STAFF REPORTS.
IT'S IN THE, IT'S IN THE SAP REPORT AND IT IS IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, AND OUR ORDINANCE IS ACTUALLY VERY CLOSELY ALIGNED WITH STATE CODE.
BUT, UH, BUT THE THING YOU THAT EVEN MATTER, THE CHECKLIST IS NOT A BLACK AND WHITE ISSUE.
BECAUSE IT IS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION.
SO WHAT I'M SEEING IS, IS THAT SHE SAID THAT WE HAVE TO MEET THESE FIVE CRITERIA.
SO WE WOULD HAVE THOSE FIVE THINGS AND THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO LIKE WRITE IN THE FACTS AND TO HELP US JUST ORGANIZE IT.
BECAUSE I REMEMBER JUST BEING VERY LIKE, UM, LIKE ONE MESSY OR 3D ONE ONE, LIKE DOES IT UNREASONABLY RESTRICT? RIGHT? OKAY.
SO ON 13 DASH THREE, THAT'S THE PAGE OF THIS HANDBOOK.
IT SAYS THE DECISION, THE BZA MUST GRANT A VARIANCE.
IF EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT THE STRICT APPLICATION OF THE TERMS OF ZONING ORDINANCE WOULD UNREASONABLY RESTRICT UTILIZATION OF THE PROPERTY, THEN THEY GIVE YOU THE FIVE CONDITIONS HERE THAT HAVE TO BE MET.
RIGHT? SO THE FIRST ONE IS THE PROPERTY INTEREST FOR WHICH THE VARIANCE IS BEING REQUESTED WAS ACQUIRED IN GOOD FAITH AND THE HARDSHIP WAS NOT CREATED BY THE APPLICANT.
THAT'S THE FIRST CHECK, RIGHT.
THAT THE APPLICANT CREATE THE HARDSHIP.
IF SO, UM, THE SECOND IS GRANTING A VARIANCE WILL NOT BE OF SUBSTANTIAL DETRIMENT TO ADJACENT PROPERTY OR NEARBY PROPERTIES.
LIKE THE APPLICANT'S GONNA HAVE TO EXPLAIN HOW THAT, WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR.
IS IT A DETRIMENT TO THE
SO IF IT'S NOT WIDESPREAD IN THAT DISTRICT, UH, THAT'S KIND OF YOUR, YOUR CHECK THERE.
SO IF THIS PROBLEM KEEPS HAPPENING IN THE ZONING DISTRICT THAT TELLS YOU THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE MM-HMM.
ALSO IN THE APPLICATION THAT THEY FILL OUT, THOSE FIVE QUESTIONS ARE ON THAT APPLICATION.
AND YOU GUYS GET THAT APPLICATION IN THE STAFF REPORT SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THEIR ANSWERS AND THEN GO THROUGH THOSE QUESTIONS AS WELL.
SO THAT, I MEAN, I THINK THE CHALLENGE IS LIKE WE SAW LAST TIME IS THAT DIFFERENT PEOPLE INTERPRETED THE FIVE QUESTIONS.
THAT'S PROBABLY ALWAYS GONNA BE THE PROBLEM BOARD.
BUT I MEAN, BECAUSE LIKE THE LAST TIME THE GUY DIDN'T MEET NUMBER ONE.
'CAUSE HE CREATED THE HARDSHIP FOR HIMSELF.
THAT'S WHERE IT'S LIKE, RIGHT.
I I THAT WAS, THAT WAS YOUR MM-HMM.
BUT THE THING IS, IF WE PROVIDE A CHECKLIST, LIKE IF WE, IT GETS A LITTLE TRICKY LEGALLY BECAUSE IF THEY MEET IT AND THEN YOU, YOU DON'T GRANT IT, WE'RE IN COURT, YOU MEET LIKE, IT JUST, YOU CAN'T DEVIATE FROM THAT CHECKLIST AT THAT POINT.
UM, AND THE THING IS, WHEN SOMETHING IS, WHEN A BZA DETERMINATION IS APPEALED TO THE COURT, THE COURT'S HEARING IT AS THOUGH THE BZA, UM, DIDN'T ACT ON IT.
LIKE IT JUST KIND OF, IT STARTS ONCE IT GETS TO COURT.
UM, I MEAN I FEEL LIKE THAT'S OUR CHECKLIST THOUGH.
LIKE WE DON'T, I MEAN, IT'S ALREADY IN LIKE PRINTED OUT THING SENT IS STATE CODE DOESN'T SAY, WELL, IT DOESN'T DEFINE WITH A HARDSHIP, YOU KNOW, LIKE YEAH.
AT WHAT POINT ARE WE UNREASONABLY RESTRICTING THE USE OF THE PROPERTY? STATE CODE DOESN'T EXPLAIN THAT.
AND STATE CODE CHANGED, LIKE THE DEFINITION LANGUAGE WAS CHANGED IN 2015 AND IT EVEN SAYS LIKE IT'S STILL BEING WORKED OUT.
WELL THAT'S WHY I THINK YOU HAVE DIFFERENT ZONING BOARDS, LIKE MM-HMM.
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SOME ARE GRANTING EVERYTHING AND THEN SOME ARE RIGHT.I THINK SOMETIMES, KEEP IN MIND A VARIANCE IS DIFFERENTIAL BETWEEN A HARDSHIP AND A SPECIAL PRIVILEGE.
FINANCIAL BURDEN SHOULDN'T EVEN BE BROUGHT UP.
THE MONEY IS NOT, IT'S NOT RELEVANT.
AND IT BE A PHYSICAL WITH THE PROPERTY PORTION.
AND THEN LIKE WHEN THE BDA RENDERS A DECISION, YOU NEED TO, I GUESS WHEN YOU MAKE A MOTION AND MAKE THAT DECISION, YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN WHETHER THEY MET THE CRITERIA STATE YEAH.
SO YOU HAVE TO BE VERY SPECIFIC WHEN YOU MAKE A MOTION AS WHAT YOU SAY AS TO EITHER WHY YOU'RE APPROVING IT OR WHY YOU'RE NOT.
I THOUGHT I REMEMBERED FROM THE FIRST TIME WE MET, YOU HAD THIS FORM FOR US AND WE HAD TO PICK ONE, DIDN'T WE? LIKE WE, WE PROVIDE LIKE A DRAFT MOTION FOR YOU TO GO OFF OF.
LIKE WHEN WE ALL FIRST JOINED.
YOU HAD IT WRITTEN UP AND IT SAID, YOU KNOW, I MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE BASED UPON DA, DA DA DA OR NOT APPROVED BASED UPON NO HARDSHIP.
YOU SAID THAT FOR AN APP ACTUAL HEARING? OR WAS THAT JUST TRAINING? NO, JUST LIKE US TRAINING.
BECAUSE I WAS GONNA SAY, I DON'T THINK WE PROVIDE THOSE NO.
BUT, BUT THAT IS WHAT SHE SAID LAST NIGHT.
NO, WE DON'T THINK YOU DO THAT.
WE NOT, BUT IMMEDIATE WE TOLD MIKE.
BUT IT WAS EXPLICITLY STATED IN THE VOTE THAT LIKE THE PEOPLE, IT DIDN'T PASS BECAUSE THERE WAS NO FLOOR TIDE.
BUT I THINK THE PEOPLE VOTED AGAINST SAID EXPLICITLY, BUT IT WAS BECAUSE IF HEARING, I DUNNO IF THAT MATTERS, BUT I MEAN, IT WASN'T LIKE THEY WERE JUST LIKE, OH, YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE IT, IT WAS IT THEY SAID EXPLICITLY LIKE IT DOESN'T MEET THE FIVE CRITERIA.
BUT I I WAS JUST SAYING YOU EXPLICITLY SAID, I THINK THAT BOTH OF YOU HAVE VOTED EXPLICITLY TO SAY, I DON'T BELIEVE IT, BUT, UM, MEETS THE CRITERIA AND YOUR DECISIONS.
LIKE IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE UNANIMOUS.
IT JUST NEEDS TO BE A MAJORITY.
SO HOWEVER THE MAJORITY GOES, I MEAN, ALL FIVE QUESTIONS HAVE OH, ALL, ALL FIVE.
IT'S NOT JUST LIKE YOU PICK ONE.
THE MOMENT ONE OF THESE DOESN'T WORK OR ISN'T PROVEN IN THIS BOARD'S OPINION, YOU CAN'T BECAUSE IT SAYS YOU MUST GRANT THE VARIANCE IF THE EVIDENCE SHOWS.
AND IF IT DOESN'T, THEN YOU CAN'T, EVEN IF ONE OF THEM IS NOT THE CASE, THEN YOU YEAH.
WOULD THEY NEED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH EACH QUESTION THEN AT THAT POINT? OR ONCE THEY HIT THAT ONE THAT YEAH, ONCE YOU HIT ONE, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO BECAUSE IF IT HAS TO BE ALL FIVE, YEAH.
SO CAN YOU UH, I DON'T THINK WE FINISHED THEM.
SO NUMBER FOUR IS GRANTING OF THE VARIANCE DOES NOT RESULT IN A USE THAT IS NOT OTHERWISE PERMITTED ON SUCH PROPERTY OR A CHANGE IN THE BUILDING RECLASSIFICATION OF THE PROPERTY.
SO BASICALLY, LIKE IF IT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED BY A REZONING OR LIKE EVEN LIKE A TAX AMENDMENT OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, A VARIANCE IS NOT APPLICABLE.
SO THEY SHOULD NOT BE, IT SHOULDN'T BE COMING TO THE BVA.
UM, AND THEN NUMBER FIVE, THE RELIEF OF REMEDY SOUGHT BY THE VARIANCE APPLICATION IS NOT AVAILABLE THROUGH THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION PROCESS THAT IS AUTHORIZED.
UM, SO IF THERE'S SOME OTHER MECHANISM TO RELIEVE THEM, THEY SHOULD TAKE THAT A VARIANCE IS NOT APPLICABLE IN THAT SITUATION.
UM, BUT HOW WOULD WE KNOW IF THERE'S ENOUGH SOME OTHER MECHANISM? LIKE IS THERE A WAY TO, I MEAN, I, I GUESS THAT WOULD BE IN THE STAFF REPORT, BUT THAT WOULD BE UP TO STAFF TO KIND OF PROVIDE YOU WITH THAT INFORMATION.
UM, BUT I MEAN, LIKE FOR US, IF SOMEBODY COMES IN, IF, IF WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED SOME OTHER MEANS, THAT'S THE ROUTE WE TAKE THEM DOWN.
WE DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT THEY COME TO THIS BOARD UNLESS THEY HAVE EXHAUSTED ALL THE, UNLESS OTHER MECHANISMS. OKAY.
SO TYPICALLY IF IT'S COMING BEFORE
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THIS BOARD, WE COULD PROBABLY CHECK THAT OFF PRETTY MUCH.I THINK WE WILL HAVE A, WELL, WE SHOULD, MM-HMM.
AND THAT SHOULD BE A, WELL, THAT WOULD BE A VARIANCE.
WELL, I'M ASSUMING, UH, WE SENT A, I THINK ANOTHER LETTER WILL GO OUT THIS WEEK.
ARE THEY APPEALING OUR DETERMINATION THAT THEY'RE IN VIOLATION? OR ARE THEY, THEY HAVEN'T MADE AN APPLICATION YET.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN VIOLATION YEP.
SO YOU GUYS MAY BE HAVING A MEETING IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS THEN I'M ASSUMING THE THE LETTER WILL GO OUT.
WELL, THE LETTER WILL GO OUT THIS WEEK.
SO THEY NEED TO, THE APPLICANT NEEDS TO MAKE A DECISION.
SO I'M, I'M ASSUMING BASED ON THE, THE LOT MM-HMM.
AND REMIND ME, CONNIE, WHAT ARE VARIANCE, WHEN ARE THE APPLICATIONS DUE BY TO DETERMINE IF WE HAVE THE MEETING? I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CHART.
AND I CAN SEND THAT TO YOU GUYS IF YOU WANT.
YEAH, THAT WOULD BE, YOU MAY HAVE ALREADY SENT IT TO ME.
WHAT'S TODAY? THE THIRD? IT'S ALMOST LIKE A MONTH PRIOR.
THAT'S BECAUSE WE GOTTA ADVERTISE AND, YOU KNOW, POST SIGNS AND ALL THAT STUFF.
SO, SO IT'S PROBABLY APRIL, NOT MARCH, RIGHT? YEAH, DEADLINE.
NO, SEE, YEAH, THEY'VE MISSED THE DEADLINE FROM MARCH.
LIKE, WE'LL JUST SAY FOR EXAMPLE, THIRD TUESDAY, I COULD PULL IT UP.
SO PROBABLY LIKE MONDAY WAS A DEADLINE TO REACH THE MARCH MEETING.
BECAUSE WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO FOLLOW, YOU HAVE SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR TO YOUR MEETING.
WE HAVE TO BE A MONTH AHEAD OF TIME.
SO AFTER ANY APPLICATION COME IN, AFTER TODAY, WE'RE NOT GO UNTIL APRIL.
BECAUSE YOUR MEETINGS ARE, BUT WE'LL PULL IT OUT.
SO WE HAVE TO FOLLOW, WHAT IS IT, 15.22
SO THE MARCH 19TH, BZA, THE DEADLINE IS, WAS TODAY.
SO THE APRIL 16TH MEETING, THE DEADLINE WILL BE MARCH 19TH.
SO WE DO, WILL WE NOT HAVE A MARCH MEETING THOUGH? NO, NOT UNLESS YOU GUYS WANNA CALL ONE FOR A REASON OR SESSION OR SOMETHING, BUT NO, AS OF RIGHT NOW.
WOULD THEY HAVE UNTIL MARCH 19TH SHE SAID, RIGHT? YEAH.
DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? NO.
I, I ASSUME IN THE TRAINING, LIKE THEY'LL GIVE, THEY GIVE US EXAMPLES OF THE FIVE THINGS.
LIKE THAT'S WHAT I WOULD HELP.
I'M KIND OF LIKE, IT'S LIKE, UM, SOME OF THE, SOME OF THE LANGUAGE BECAUSE IT, LIKE YOU SAID, IT DOESN'T DEFINE IT.
IT'S, I WOULD REALLY LIKE SOME EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT WOULD NOT BE IN THINGS.
THAT WOULD BE SOME OF THE TRAINING.
I DO FEEL LIKE SOME OF JUDGMENT CALLS, RIGHT.
IT WOULD BE CASE STUDIES IN THE, THE TRAINING ALSO DEPENDS ON WHO'S TEACHING IT.
AND THE PERSON THAT I WENT THROUGH TRAINING WITH IS RETIRING, SO I DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW YOURS IS GONNA BE SET UP.
WHEN I WENT THERE, THEY GAVE LIKE TWO OR THREE CASE STUDIES.
UM, AND YOU KIND OF WENT THROUGH, THEY BROKE YOU OFF INTO GROUPS AND IT WAS, OKAY, HERE'S THE FACTS, HOW WOULD YOU DECIDE? OKAY.
UM, BUT THINGS LIKE WHAT THEY DON'T GO THROUGH.
LIKE THEY DON'T TEACH YOU ABOUT ROBERT'S RULES, THEY DON'T TEACH YOU ABOUT RUNNING A MEETING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO, UM, IF THAT'S TRAINING THAT THIS BOARD WANTS, SO THE TOWN ATTORNEY CAN COME IN AND KIND OF GIVE YOU A, A QUICK LIKE, HERE'S HOW YOU CONDUCT A MEETING.
HERE ARE THE RULES MAKE, LIKE MAKING MOTIONS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, UM, AND THE PERSON THAT I DID TRAINING WITH, YOU KNOW, HE IS RETIRING.
HE DID OFFER TO COME AND DO ADDITIONAL TRAINING FOR THIS BOARD.
UM, BUT I THINK HIS AVAILABILITY IS GONNA DEPEND ON WHEN WE GET A FULL BOARD SEATED.
UM, BUT IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU GUYS ARE INTERESTED IN, HE CAN COME IN AND YOU GIVE ME YOUR QUESTIONS OR WHAT YOU WANT HIM TO REALLY COVER.
LIKE IF YOU WANT HIM TO DIG INTO VARIANCES, UM, OR RUNNING A MEETING.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYBODY BETTER THAN HIM TO EXPLAIN HOW THIS WORKS.
[00:30:01]
WHEN ARE YOU GOING, UH, JUNE.I KNOW LOT THE MEETING STUFF IS PRETTY, I MEAN, EASILY ACCESSIBLE INFORMATION.
DON'T FORGET THE TRAINING THAT YOU HAVE, THE CLOSING SESSION.
YOU NEED TO TAKE YOUR QUIZZES BEFOREHAND OR YOU WON'T GET YOUR, UH, CERTIFICATE.
AND TAKING QUIZZES AT THE CLOSING SESSION.
BUT YOU CAN TAKE THEM AFTER THE INITIAL SESSION, RIGHT? YEAH.
THAT'S WHEN YOU RIGHT AWAY SEND THEM TO YOU.
AND THEN YOU NEED TO TAKE YOUR CLIP.
SO I JUST SENT EVERYBODY THAT EMAIL WITH THOSE DEADLINES.
I'M SURE ONCE YOU GET YOUR CERTIFIC, YOU SEND IT TO CONNIE.
ONCE YOU COMPLETE THE TRAINING, YOU EMAIL IT TO CONNIE.
AND HOW OFTEN DO YOU HAVE TO COMPLETE THOSE? LIKE IT ONE TIME TRAINING? MM-HMM.
BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL BECAUSE THIS BOARD DOESN'T MEET THAT OFTEN TO HAVE ANNUAL TRAINING SESSIONS, LIKE JUST REFRESHERS.
'CAUSE EACH OF YOU ARE GONNA BE ON HERE FOR FIVE YEARS AND JUST THE LENGTH OF THE APPOINTMENT.
UM, AND ANYTIME THIS BOARD WANTS TO HAVE A WORK SESSION TO WORK ON ANYTHING, YOU JUST NEED TO LET ME KNOW.
AND THAT MIGHT BE GOOD WHEN YOU GET A FULL BOARD IF YOU GUYS WANNA TALK ABOUT YOUR BYLAWS.
SEE WHAT EVERYBODY WANTS TO DO.
I THINK IT WOULDN'T HURT MUCH.
WE GET A FULL BOARD IF WE DID DO LIKE A MOCK MEETING.
JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY HAS EXPERIENCED ONE BEFORE.
THEY'RE EXPECTED TO SIT ON ONE AND PERFORM
AND ALSO I THINK SOMETHING TOO THAT'S HELPFUL AND I'VE JUST DONE IT TO DO IT IS WATCH OTHER JURISDICTIONS YES.
I WISH I HAD DONE THAT BEFORE MY LAST MEETING.
AFTER ATTENDING THAT, I WAS LIKE, OH, THIS IS PUBLIC INFORMATION.
I COULD HAVE DONE THAT BEFORE THIS MEETING.
I WORKED AT, UM,
UM, THE CHAIRMAN THERE WAS VERY AND WHAT, WHAT'S JURISDICTION HERE? SO THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD ONE.
THAT IS SOMETHING TOO, UM, WHICH YOU GUYS PROBABLY KNOW HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS.
BUT WE SHOULD HAVE LIKE A, A DRESS CODE, RIGHT? LIKE A, A FORMAL DRESS CODE.
YOU SEE, THEY USED TO BE AT THE GOVERNMENT CENTER, SO EVERYBODY WAS UP IN THE DIOCESE AND THAT MAKES IT A LITTLE MORE FORMAL.
SO, YOU KNOW, BEING OVER THERE DID, DID HELP WITH THAT.
AND WHEN YOU'RE DOING PUBLIC HEARINGS, TYPICALLY YOU WANNA DRESS UP A LITTLE MORE.
LIKE THE MEN SHOULD NOT BE WEARING BALL CAPS INSIDE DURING THE MEETING.
THEY'RE LOOKING LIKE THEY JUST GOT OUT OF BED.
BUT THAT IS SOMETHING IF IT'S NOT IN THE BYLAWS, RIGHT.
BECAUSE THIS BOARD IS ACTUALLY, WE CAN'T DO OUR JOBS WITHOUT THIS BOARD BEING
SO THIS, FOR THE, WE WE'RE LOOKING FOR APPLICATIONS.
SO WE STILL HAVE, IF YOU KNOW ANYBODY YEAH.
IF YOU HAVE ANYBODY, PEOPLE THAT ARE, YOU JUST HAVE TO LIVE IN THE TOWN LIMIT.
LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO LEAVE YOUR EMOTIONS AT THE DOOR.
I ACTUALLY THINK THAT MAKES IT EASIER, BUT MAYBE NOT.
IT DEPENDS ON, IT DEPENDS ON THE PERSON.
I THINK IT, IT'S EASY WHEN THEY'RE NOT SITTING IN FRONT OF YOU.
AND MONEY COME INTO PLACE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE, AND THE MONEY IS HAPPY.
I FEEL LIKE, LIKE THEIR MANAGER.
THAT, I MEAN, THAT SUCKS, YOU KNOW? RIGHT.
[00:35:01]
IT IS.LIKE I COULD NEVER BE ON THIS BOARD BECAUSE I, BECAUSE I WANT TO JUST OKAY.
YOU NEED THAT, YOU KNOW? YEAH.
UHHUH AND, AND IT WOULD BE HARD FOR ME TO, TO NOT, YEAH.
CAN YOU FIND A LINK TO THAT MEETING OR SOMETHING? DO YOU MIND SENDING AN EMAIL OUT? YEAH, I'LL SEND AND I CAN LOOK FOR THAT AS WELL AND SEND SOME OUT.
THERE'S A COUPLE OF EVEN WATCH THE COUNTIES.
OH YEAH, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
DID YOU GUYS SAY THAT? 'CAUSE YOU KNOW HOW, WHERE TO FIND IT AND EVERYTHING.
I'M LIKE, WHERE IN THE WORLD AM I GONNA FIND A RECORDED COPY OF A B DO A SEARCH FOR FART, F**K YOUR COUNTY BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MEETINGS.
AND IT SHOULD TAKE YOU JUST, BUT I MEAN, I'M HAPPY TO LOOK SOMETHING UP AND SEND IT.
MAYBE, MAYBE YOU CAN LOOK SOMETHING UP THAT, THAT LOCAL COUNTY, THE APPLICATION IS SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE.
MAYBE WHAT SHE'S SAYING, F**K GEAR WAS.
'CAUSE YOU SOME OF THE COUNTIES DO, UH, CONDITIONAL USE PERMITS OR SPECIAL USE PERMITS.
AND NO, NO, IT HAS TO BE THE BZA THOUGH.
WELL THE B IN THOSE JURISDICTION, I'M JUST SAYING.
THEY'RE NOT DOING THREE SPECIAL SEARCH FOR VARIANCE.
SEARCH FOR VARIANCE OR APPEAL OF THE ZONING, UH, ADMINISTRATOR'S DETERMINATION.
SO STATE CODE REQUIRES THE ANNUAL REPORT IS FURNISHED FOR THE BVA AS WELL AS PLANNING COMMISSION.
SO THE ANNUAL REPORT FOR, WHAT IS IT, 2023 IS IN HERE.
UM, IF YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES OR DIDN'T SEE ANY, ANYTHING THAT WE NEED TO CHANGE FIXED, UM, WE WILL GO AHEAD.
IF YOU GIVE US PERMISSION TO, UH, CLOSE IT ON THE ACCOUNT WEBSITE.
AND YOU, I HAD A QUESTION WAS, UM, THERE WAS ONE SPOT WHERE IT SAID MAYBE NO, I THOUGHT THERE WAS A PORTION OF IT.
WELL, I DID THE ANNUAL REPORT OF ALL THE BOARDS AND ALL THE WORK IN OUR OFFICE.
BUT THIS IS JUST THE BZ REPORT.
AND, AND I, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT MATTERS.
SO I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW IF IT MATTERED BECAUSE I DIDN'T.
AND I DID ADD IT TO THE FINAL WHOLE GIANT ONE.
AND I'LL BE SURE THAT THAT'S ON THE, SO IT WAS JUST THE DECEMBER MEETING THAT I ATTENDED ON THE FLOOR.
I DID ACTUALLY ADD THAT, THAT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT I SAW.
BUT BECAUSE I WASN'T AT ANY MEETINGS WITH THE DECEMBER 1ST, 2023, NO, IT SHOULD BE IN THERE.
I WAS LIKE, THAT WAS THE ONLY THING I COULD, BUT MM-HMM.
SO WE JUST, IS IT YOU MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE IT OR IS IT JUST IT'S JUST IN THE RECORD.
YOU GUYS OKAY WITH WE AT THE I WAS OKAY WITH IT.
SO WE CAN GO AHEAD AND POST THAT ON THE WEBSITE.
WELL, I GUESS MY ONLY QUESTION IS LIKE, ONCE WE MAKE OUR DECISION, IF ANYTHING GOES FURTHER OR THEY APPEAL IT, YOU KNOW, THEY TAKE OTHER AVENUES WE'RE DONE AT THAT POINT.
THAT WE WOULDN'T NEED TO BE THERE.
IT WOULD, IT'S, WE'RE COMPLETELY OUT OF IT.
ONCE THEY FILE THAT APPEAL TO CIRCUIT COURT, IT'S LIKE
UM, OUR TOWN ATTORNEY REPRESENTS, HE REPRESENTS STAFF HERE, REPRESENTS THE TOWN.
UM, HE KIND OF JUST TAKE IT THROUGH THE PROCESS AND THEN IT JUST KIND OF LANDS WHERE IT LANDS.
BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING LIKE, THEY DON'T LIKE CALL US TO, OKAY.
AND IT'S, AND THEY'RE NOT GOING AFTER MEMBERS PERSONALLY.
I WASN'T JUST BASICALLY PEELING INTO A HIGHER COURT.
NO, I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THAT.
I WAS JUST MORE LIKE, OH YEAH.
I WAS JUST CURIOUS IF THEY LIKE CALL, CALL US OR ASK US TO APPEAL NOW.
AND I MEAN, STATE CODE, THEY HAVE TO, THEY HAVE TO FILE AN APPEAL WITHIN 30 DAYS.
SO THAT DOESN'T GIVE THEM, SOME OF THEM MAY EVEN HAVE THE APPEAL 30 DAY.
AND SO THAT ESSENTIALLY IT'S WHAT? YEAH.
SO WHEN THE ATTORNEY THEN TAKES OVER
[00:40:01]
MM-HMM.HE'S NOT YOUR ATTORNEY, BUT YEAH.
BUT THEN YOUR APPOINTED BY THE LEGISLATIVE BODY, WELL YOU'RE APPOINTED BY THE CIRCUIT COURT, BUT THE LEGISLATIVE BODY MADE A RECOMMENDATION.
BUT HE DOES NOT REPRESENT THIS BOARD.
AND HAS THIS BOARD EVER NEEDED LEGAL REPRESENTATION? YES.
I WOULD SAY THE LAST YEAR, NOT LAST YEAR, THE YEAR BEFORE WHEN WE HAD THAT
AND IT WOULD'VE BEEN REALLY GREAT TO HAVE HAD AN ATTORNEY THAT WAS ABLE TO GUIDE US.
UM, IT'S BEEN SOME YEARS PAST THAT THAT THEY BROUGHT IN LEGAL REPRESENTATION.
I CAN'T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT, CAN'T REMEMBER FOR SURE WHAT THAT WAS.
JUST MY EXPERIENCE IS DON'T GET SIDETRACKED.
THE BCA SOMETIMES GETS SIDETRACKED.
ON WHAT'S BEFORE THEN WITH OTHER THINGS THAT ARE BROUGHT UP THAT DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE THE WEIGHT FOR MAKING A DECISION.
AND THAT'S WHAT GETS YOU INTO TROUBLE.
I MEAN, IT SHOULD BE FAIRLY BLACK AND WHITE.
LIKE IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT A SETBACK FOR A PORCH, A FENCE IS YOUR RIGHT.
YOU JUST WANT TO FOCUS ON START BACK.
IS IT ENCROACHING? WHAT ARE THE FACTS? MM-HMM.
WELL, AND I GUESS TOO, I MEAN, PART OF THAT COMES INTO MY RESPONSIBILITY THEN TOO TO LIKE LEAD THE MEETING, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
BUT THEN I DON'T, AM I SUPPOSED TO SHUT THAT DOWN WHEN LIKE ANOTHER BOARD MEMBER IS KIND OF GOING OFF THE, OFF THE PATH.
IF YOU WANNA SIT THERE AND SAY POINT OF ORDER AND TELL THEM TO GET BACK ON TRACK, YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO.
IF YOU WERE SHAKING YOUR HEAD NO, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHY YOU WERE SHAKING YOUR HEAD NO.
WELL THAT, WELL, THEY SHOULDN'T BE GETTING OFF TRACK.
I MEAN, BUT IF THEY DO, SHE CAN STOP THEM.
I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT A CHAIRMAN NEEDS TO DO.
WELL, I GUESS IF THEY'RE TALKING SOMETHING THAT'S IRRELEVANT, RIGHT.
IRRELEVANT TO THE CASE, DON'T TAKE A FIGHT
BUT YOU'RE WELL WITHIN YOUR, YOUR POWER TO, YOU CAN DO IT GENTLY.
I'M JUST LIKE, I GUYS, I THINK THIS IS IRRELEVANT.
I, I'D LIKE TO GET BACK TO THE FACTS OF THE CASE THAT WE'RE HEARING MORNING.
I MEAN, I DID SPEAK UP LAST MORNING, UH, BUT, BUT SOMETIMES TOO, LIKE I WANT US TO SEEM UNIFIED.
SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE BATTLE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, LIKE I DON'T THINK IT'S OKAY AS A CHAIR TO, TO LEAD THEM IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
AND THEY DON'T, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE UNANIMOUS.
I MEAN, EVERYBODY WANTS TO, WELL NOT UNANIMOUS, BUT LIKE THAT WE'RE NOT EACH OTHER'S ENEMIES.
YOU KNOW, LIKE, I DON'T WANT, I WANT US TO SEEM LIKE A SOLID, YOU KNOW.
WELL, THAT'S WHERE IT GOES BACK TO THE, LIKE, YOU CAN'T MAKE IT PERSONAL.
SO IF YOU ARE GONNA MAKE IT PERSONAL, LIKE EVEN IF WE DISAGREE, IT SHOULDN'T BE A YEAH.
IT SHOULD BE A FRIENDLY DISAGREEMENT OF LIKE, I INTERPRET IT DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU DO.
RATHER THAN THE EMOTIONAL WHAT YOU MEAN? IT'S, BUT YOU JUST NEED TO DAYS, EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE, YOU JUST NEED TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO RECONCILE YEAH.
AND, BUT NOT EVERYTHING COMES BEFORE YOU IS GONNA BE A VARIANCE.
IT'S GONNA BE AN APPEAL TO THE, THE ZONING DETERMINATION OF WHAT OUR CODE STATES.
I MEAN, SO IT CAN BE ANYTHING IN, ON OUR INTERPRETATION, UHHUH, THAT SOMEONE CAN APPEAL THE INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE CODE, HOW THE CODE IS WRITTEN AND HOW WE'RE ENFORCING THAT.
LIKE IF WE TELL 'EM THEIR GRASS IS 11 INCHES AND THEY SAY, NO, IT'S NINE, OR IF THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE HAD A RIGHT TO LIKE TYPE AND FORTH, THEY CAN APPEAL OUR DECISION.
AND, AND THEY MAY COME HERE AND YOU GUYS MIGHT SAY, WELL, I INTERPRET IT LIKE THE CITIZEN INTERPRETED AND NOT LIKE LAUREN INTERPRETED IT.
SO, WELL, I THINK THE LAST ONE THAT WAS POTENTIALLY COMING FOR YOU, WE CITED THEM FOR HAVING SIGN ON THEIR FRONT OF THEIR BUILDING.
UHHUH,
WELL WE CONSIDER THOSE WINDOWS.
THEY CAN, THEY, BECAUSE WE HAVE, UH, YOU CAN HAVE A WINDOW SIGN ON GLASS.
THEY'RE INTERPRET BECAUSE THEY, THEY WEREN'T SLIDING DOORS.
THEY DIDN'T THINK THOSE WERE WINDOWS.
SO THEY, BUT THEY ARE GLASS SLIDING DOORS.
BUT THAT DIDN'T COME BEFORE US BECAUSE Y'ALL WORKED IT OUT, OR, UH, THE APPLICATION'S GONE TO THE BAR.
BECAUSE IT'S IN HISTORIC DISTRICT.
[00:45:01]
SO WE DON'T, IT WE DON'T HEAR COULD IT POTENTIALLY COME TO US OR NO, IT COULD, IT COULD, IT COULD DEPEND ON WHAT THE BAR DOES.I'M JUST SAYING THAT'S KIND OF INTERPRETATION.
WE, YOU KNOW, OUR NO, I THINK THAT'S THE PERFECT EXAMPLE.
THE, THE CODE IS WRITTEN, IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, OUR CODE MAY BE IN CERTAIN AREAS IS OUTDATED WITH TODAY'S TECHNOLOGY.
WE'LL JUST SAY KNOW THINGS KEEPS EVOLVING.
SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF LIKE LETTER OF THE LAW VERSUS SPIRIT OF THE LAW.
SO WE, YOU KNOW, WE, YOU KNOW, WINDOW SIGNS OR SOME PEOPLE THINK WINDOW SIGNS ARE ONLY ON A WINDOW.
WHICH I CAN SEE THAT INTERPRETATION.
AND I ALSO CAN SEE THE OTHER INTERPRETATION YOU HAVE A GLASS EXAMPLE MIGHT NOT BE UNANIMOUS ON A BOARD.
I THINK THAT'S FOR AN EXAMPLE.
NO, I THINK THAT EXAMPLE LIKE THAT IS WHAT I WAS GETTING AT.
MY INTERPRETATION IS THAT IS A WINDOW SIGN.
IT'S NOT A WALL SIGN 'CAUSE IT'S NOT ATTACHED TO A WALL.
WE ONLY HAVE SO MANY TYPE OF SIGNS LISTED IN THE CODE.
SO I GOTTA FIGURE OUT WHERE DOES THIS FIT IN? RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A ROOF SIGN, IT'S NOT A WALL SIGN, IT'S NOT A PROJECTING SIGN.
IT'S NONE OF THESE, IT'S NOT SANDWICH.
THE DOOR SIGN WASN'T AN OPTION.
WHAT'S THAT? DOOR SIGN WASN'T AN OPTION.
SO THEN, YEAH, NO, OUR JOB IS JUST TRYING TO FIGURE IS THIS, IS THIS IT, IT'S THIS CATEGORY.
SOMETIMES YOU JUST CAN'T BACK SOMETHING IN TO THE CODE.
LIKE YOU CAN'T LIKE, LIKE THE CODE IS NO MATTER HOW YOU INTERPRET IT.
AND WHEN THEY DON'T LIKE IT, YOU KNOW.
I WOULD, I WAS POTENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, SIGNS WILL BE THE THING THAT MAY COME TO THE BOARD FOR YOU AS AN APPEAL.
IF WE'RE GETTING A BUNCH OF THEM, THEN WE MIGHT WANNA LOOK AT IT.
BUT IF WE'RE NOT, THEN WELL, I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER THING WHERE TECHNOLOGY HAS OUTDATED OUR, OUR, WELL THERE'S SO MANY DIFFERENT, THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS TO MAIN RENEWABLE SIGNS.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE REAL ESTATE IN OUR ORDINANCE THAT'S NOT IN OUR ORDINANCE.
SO NOW THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, WE TAKE PAINTED SIGNS.
WELL IT'S NOW IT'S NOT PAINTED.
IT'S A DECAL OR IT'S A STATIC CLING.
SO YOU, THERE'S SO MANY NEW THINGS, RIGHT.
STRING LIGHTS OR IS IT I THINK GLARING LIGHTS OR SOMETHING.
THAT'S HOW OUR CODE DEFINES IT.
AT WHAT POINT DOES IT BECOME DISTRACTING TO MOTORISTS? RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, IS A NEON SIGN, A GLARING SIGN? OUR CODE SAYS GLARING SIGNS FLASHING OR LIGHTS, FOR EXAMPLE, NEON YOU GUYS, BUT WE DON'T ADDRESS NEON.
SO THEY MAY NOT AGREE WITH OUR DETERMINATION THAT IT'S GLARING.
THAT MAY BE UP TO SIDE SIDE, BUT WE DON'T DEFINE NEON.
YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? WE DON'T DEFINE NEON BECAUSE THOSE ARE LIKE SIGNS THAT JUST CAME OUT HERE IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.
BUT WE DO HAVE, THE SIGNS SHOULD NOT BE GLARING OR FLASHING.
SO I'M JUST SAYING THOSE ARE EXAMPLES BESIDES VARIANCES THAT YOU COULD YEAH.
ARE THERE PROTOCOLS FOR THOSE
BUT FOR THAT ONE STATUTE IN, OR THAT'S NOT A VARIANCE.
THAT'S, THEY'RE BELIEVING THE INTERPRETATION FROM THE STAFF IS NOT CORRECT.
SO THAT THEIR JOB IS TO MAKE THEIR CASE THAT THEIR INTERPRETATION IS CORRECT, NOT YOURS.
AND THEN STATE CODE RECOMMENDS USING WEBSTER'S THIRD NEW INTERNATIONAL DICTIONARY.
I'M JUST TRYING TO THROW SOME EXAMPLES OUT THERE THAT YOU KNOW.
SO ALL, ALL THAT STUFF IS IN THE EMAIL, RIGHT? YES.
AND IF WE GET, IF WE GET AN APPLICATION LIKE THAT, I WILL INCLUDE THIS BACK INTO THE PACKET.
LIKE WE, IF YOU ALL NEED ME, IF YOU ANYBODY NEEDS ME TO PRINT THAT, LET ME KNOW AND I'LL JUST PRINT IT AND YOU GUYS CAN COME BY AND PICK IT UP OR I'LL DROP IT IN THE MAILS.
I'M ALWAYS GONNA ASK YOU THAT BECAUSE I LIKE THE PAPER, BUT I CAN'T BE PRINTING 80 PAGES EVERY MEETING.
WE'VE MOVED AWAY FROM, I DON'T KNOW HOW WE YEAH.
FROM PRINTING WE OH YOU DON'T.
BUT I MEAN IF THESE PARTICULAR CHAPTERS, I CAN DEFINITELY PRINT THOSE OUT.
WE CAN PRINT YOU LIKE ANY REFERENCES TO THE LAW.
THERE PACKETS WHEN YOU GET THEM WILL BE DIGITAL.
OH, EVENTUALLY I'VE READ THOSE.
BUT THOSE AREN'T, I MEAN, I MEAN IT WAS LONG LAST TIME, BUT IT WASN'T A, BUT EVENTUALLY WE SHOULD, I'M HOPING WE'LL GET IPADS FOR EACH BOARD.
I HAD TO GET PC IPADS FOR, I MEAN THE AMOUNT OF STUFF WAS THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS AND
[00:50:01]
THOUSANDS OF PAGES.LIKE THE PLANNING, SOMETIMES THE PLANNING COMMISSION AGENDA.
SO, AND WITH YEAH, I GET WHY YOU DON'T WANNA PRINT THAT.
SO, BUT YEAH, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN REFERENCE THAT'S MORE, IT'S JUST I PRINT THIS PARTICULARLY INFORMATION.
DO YOU WANT ME, DO YOU WANNA COME BY AND PICK 'EM UP? YOU WANT ME TO LET YOU KNOW WHEN THEY'RE READY? OR DO YOU WANT ME TO DROP 'EM IN THE MAIL? I LIKE THE MAIL IF YOU DON'T MIND,
WILL YOU PRINT ME ONE TOO? SURE.
SO I'LL MAIL ERRANDS AND YOU GUYS WILL PICK UP.
WHEN DID, BUT THERE ARE NO MORE QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING.
CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? I'LL MOTION TO ADJOURN.