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ROLL CALL PLEASE.[Town Council Work Session on August 7, 2023.]
SURE.COUNCILMAN MELISSA? COUNCILWOMAN.
FIRST THING ON AGENDA IS UNDER OLD BUSINESS, UM, THE SCHOOL SPEED.
UH, CHIEF, DO YOU, HAVEING YOU WANT TO ADD TO THAT TONIGHT? DO YOU NEED ANYTHING ELSE?
WHAT'S THE PLEASURE OF THE COUNSEL? UM, TO GO AHEAD AND MOVE IT TO A, UH, TO THE 28TH OF AUGUST, CORRECT.
UH, TO THE VOTE ON IT OR EITHER ATTORNEY DOWN OR HAVE IT.
WHAT'S Y'ALL'S PLEASURE? UM, ARE WE ON FOR DISCUSSION? YES, SIR.
UM, I, I WAS JUST, I DON'T, I DON'T RECALL THE CIRCUMSTANCE AS TO WHY, UH, ON JULY THE 19TH, AL TWO MINUTE, UH, UH, CONTACTED, UH, BELIEVE COUNSEL REGARDING, UH, POTENTIAL, UH, BIDDING ON IT OR WHATEVER.
THEY WANTED TO, THEY WANTED TO POTENTIALLY COME IN AND DEMONSTRATE WHAT THEY HAD.
I THINK IT WAS, UH, IT WAS AN EMAIL THAT CAME ACROSS ON JULY 19TH.
WELL, I THINK, AND YEAH, THEY REACHED OUT TO MYSELF.
AND WITH A PROCESS LIKE THIS, TYPICALLY STAFF BRINGS FORWARD RECOMMENDATIONS.
JUST LIKE IN PLANNING AND ZONING AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
CHIEF MCGILLIS HAD MET WITH MULTIPLE COMPANIES AND TALKED WITH MULTIPLE, THERE WAS OUT OF POCKET EXPENSES WITH THAT COMPANY.
UM, AND THERE'S NOT ANY OTHER COMPANY, UH, THAT OFFERS MORE THAN A ONE DAY STUDY.
UM, BLUE LINE OFFERED A WEEK LONG STUDY, DESPITE IT BEING FRIDAY OF APPLE BLOSSOM.
UM, AND THEN WITH THE R F P FROM, I BELIEVE I BUTCHER THE COUNTY EVERY TIME WITH THE COUNTY, WITH THE, WITH COUNTY COUNTY, WE WERE ABLE TO USE THEIR R F P AND THERE WAS NO COST FROM BLUE LINES TO THE LOCALITY, WHICH IS WHY CHIEF DIDN'T BRING ULTIMATE FORWARD TO COUNCIL BECAUSE IT WAS OUTTA POCKET CALL.
I I WAS JUST WONDERING IF ANYONE RESPONDED BACK TO THEM.
SOUNDS LIKE, SOUNDS LIKE YOU DID.
I ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR EMAIL IS ALL I DID.
DO WE HAVE, DO WE HAVE THE OTHER, UH, COUNCILMAN MORRIS, YOU INDICATED THAT WE HAD OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES, THAT THERE WAS JUST ONE, THERE WAS ONE WHEN CHIEF CAME FORWARD THE VERY FIRST TIME, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS, LET ME, CAN I FINISH? YES, PLEASE.
UM, WHO WA WHO WAS THAT COMPANY? I, I DON'T KNOW.
IT WAS CHIEF AND CHIEF ONLY BROUGHT BLUE LINES FORWARD TO COUNCIL, AND I JUST TRUSTED AND RESPECTED HIS OPINION.
AND SINCE THAT WAS THE CASE AND THEY WERE THE ONLY ONE WITHOUT A COST, IT MADE SENSE THAT THEY WERE THE ONLY ONES WHO ACTUALLY GOT TO COME AND PRESENT TO US AS A RESULT OF HIS OPINION.
AND I RESPECT CHIEF, YOUR OPINION, BUT AS A COUNCIL MEMBER AND LOOKING AT MY COMMUNITY, I THINK IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR US TO LOOK AT ANY OTHER BIDS THAT MAY HAVE COME IN WHAT THEY ARE, AND ALLOW THE COUNCIL THEN TO MAKE A DECISION ON A, UH, ON A POTENTIAL CONTRACT THAT, UH, WOULD, UH, THAT WOULD, UH, HAVE THE COUNT, HAVE THE COMMUNITY, UM, LIABLE FOR TWO YEARS, OR WHATEVER THAT NUMBER IS.
I WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO SEE, UH, OTHER POTENTIAL BIDDERS AND WHAT THEY'RE OFFERING, JUST SO THAT WE, UH, IN, IN DOING OUR DUE DILIGENCE, UH, HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY YAY NAYYY, UH, ON A, UH, ON A TWO YEAR, ON A TWO YEAR PROJECT.
AND I WOULD LOOK FORWARD TO THE COUNCIL'S INPUT.
IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING OF SPEAKING WITH JOE LAST WEDNESDAY, THAT TONIGHT'S AGENDA ITEM ISN'T TO DECIDE BETWEEN BLUE LINE OR AN ALTERNATIVE.
IT WAS TO DECIDE THE APPETITE OF THIS COUNCIL TO EVEN CONTINUE PURSUING SUCH, UM, MEASURES.
AND SO TONIGHT WE WERE TRYING TO GET CONSENSUS.
UM, AGAIN, THIS IS MY UNDERSTANDING WITH MEETING WITH JOE AND THE MAYOR, THAT WE WERE JUST TRYING TO GAUGE CONSENSUS OF IF THIS IS EVEN AN OPTION WE WANTED TO STILL PURSUE AFTER OUR LAST MEETING DISCUSSION ABOUT IT.
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THAT WHAT STAFF DID WAS, IS USE A PROVISION IN THE VIRGINIA PROCUREMENT ACT THAT ALLOWS US TO LATCH ONTO OTHER COMMUNITIES, HAVE WENT THROUGH THE WHOLE R F P PROCESS.UNDERSTAND WE DO THAT QUITE OFTEN WHEN, WHEN WE CAN SAVE TIME AND MONEY.
SO THAT IS THE REASON WHY WE ENGAGE BLUE BLUE.
IF COUNCIL DOESN'T WANT TO USE THAT PROVISION, THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE A STEP BACK.
EVALUATE THE VENDORS THAT SUPPLY TO RESPOND TO THAT R F P AND THEN EVALUATE IT ACCORDINGLY.
I, YOU KNOW, I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN PROCUREMENTS FOR 30 YEARS.
I BELIEVE IT'S ALWAYS BEST TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT'S AVAILABLE AND EVALUATE IT.
TIME SHOULD NOT BE A CONSIDERATION.
WHAT'S BEST FOR THIS COMMUNITY, I BELIEVE SHOULD BE, AND IF WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE OTHER BIDDERS THAT, UH, ARE INTERESTED IN PROVIDING SPEED CAMERAS AND THE KINDS OF, UH, AND THE KINDS OF, UH, UH, SUPPORT THAT BLUE LINE WOULD PROVIDE BASED ON THOSE, UH, REQUIREMENTS.
I, I, I WOULD THINK THAT, UH, THIS COUNCIL'S WOULD BE PRUDENT IN ACCEPTING OTHER BIDS.
IF THIS IS COUNCIL'S DESIRE, RIGHT, THEN WE CAN, YOU KNOW, THAT IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO SAVE IS TIME AND MONEY.
AND IF SOME OTHER, UH, WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT MONEY THOUGH, SIR.
IF COUNSEL WANTS TO SEND OUT AN R F P, I WILL DO THAT KINDLY.
BUT I, I'M GONNA BACK, I'M GONNA BACK UP.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT, WHAT AN OTHER, WHAT ONE OF THE OTHER BIDDERS, IF, IF THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE.
SO I DON'T KNOW WITH WHAT BLUE LINE IS PROVIDING IS THE SAME, LESS OR MORE.
BUT EVERY, EVERY DEPARTMENT HAD, I MEAN, THIS IS NOTHING NEW TO US.
EVERY THEN LET IT THEN PRESENT IT TO US.
THE THING IS, OUR CHIEF WENT OUT, HE DID THE RESEARCH JUST LIKE, I'M, I'M GONNA USE BJ OR ROBBIE, I'M GONNA USE YOU AS GUINEA PIGS FOR A SECOND.
THEY GO OUT, THEY GET THEIR OWN BIDS, THEY BRING IT TO US, AND THEY SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT.
YOU, THE CHIEF HAS DONE HIS DUE DILIGENCE FOR US.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I, I I COMPLETELY RESPECT ANYTHING THAT, THAT MAN OVER IN BLUE TELLS US.
I WAS, I THINK IT WAS THREE, BUT I, WE SEEN, WE'VE SEEN THAT.
THEN VJ, FROM NOW ON, YOU NEED TO SHOW COUNSEL EVERYTHING YOU DO.
IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT? I BELIEVE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THIS COUNCIL IS TO SHOW OUR COMMUNITY IF WE ARE GOING TO ENTER INTO AGREEMENTS THAT THEY PROVIDE US WITH THE, UH, UH, PROPER BACKGROUND THAT WE CAN MAKE A DECISION AS, AS WE'RE TRYING TO DO TONIGHT.
I'M GONNA BACK UP JUST A LITTLE BIT BEFORE WE, UM, BUT BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER WITH THIS CONVERSATION, I THINK WE NEED TO, UH, WE NEED TO HAVE A CONSENSUS ON COUNSEL, WHETHER OR NOT COUNSEL, UM, AND MAYBE YOU DID IT IN THE MINUTE OR TWO BEFORE I GOT HERE.
SO, AND I APOLOGIZE TO THE PUBLIC.
SO, UM, IS, DO, DO PEOPLE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SPEED CAMERAS IN, UH, SCHOOL ZONES FOR, UM, FOR, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, UM, FOR SAFETY REASONS, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY IS, UH, IF, IF THERE, BECAUSE WE, WE'VE NOW HAD THIS AT TWO WORK SESSIONS.
WE PULLED IT OFF OF OUR REGULAR AGENDA BECAUSE THERE WAS SOME CONCERNS, SOME QUESTIONS.
I THINK WE GOT A LOT OF DIFFERENT, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF ANSWERS TO SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS.
SO BEFORE WE EVEN MOVE FORWARD, THE NEXT CONVERSATION, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, UH, VICE MAYOR, YOU WANNA MOVE FORWARD WITH, WITH, UM, SPEED CAMERAS AND YES.
BUT I DID HAVE SOME QUESTIONS TOO.
THIS, THIS WOULD BE A GOOD, I MEAN, THIS WOULD, THIS IS THE TIME TO BE ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS BEFORE.
WE JUST DON'T WANNA PURSUE A BID IF THERE'S NOT EVEN AN APPETITE.
RIGHT? THAT'S, THAT'S, THERE IS AN APPETITE BEFORE THEY PUT AN R F P OUT.
WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF COUNCIL STILL EVEN HAD AN APPETITE FOR IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN THE FIRST TIME TO THE SECOND TIME TO WHEN IT WAS ON OUR COUNCIL, UH, REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING AGENDA, THERE WERE CONCERNS THAT WERE BROUGHT FORWARD BY THE CITIZENS.
AND WE TRIED TO ASK A LOT OF THOSE THINGS.
BUT SINCE THEN, SO, SO THIS, THIS WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE
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TIME TO ASK SOME OF THOSE THINGS.SO DO YOU WANNA WAIT TO GO AROUND FOR CONSENSUS OR NO, WELL GO AHEAD AND ASK.
'CAUSE IT MAY OR MAY NOT CHANGE PEOPLE'S THOUGHTS ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY YEP.
WELL, I WENT THROUGH THE, I WENT THROUGH THE CONTRACT AGAIN AND I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE BECAUSE, UM, OF A COUPLE OF THINGS.
ONE WAS, AND GEORGE, YOU CAN ANSWER WHOEVER'S, YOU KNOW, CAN FIND THIS LANGUAGE FOR ME.
'CAUSE I DIDN'T NECESSARILY SEE IT.
IS THE LANGUAGE CLEAR THAT, FOR INSTANCE, IF WE FAILED TO NOTIFY BLUE LINE OF A CHANGE IN THE SCHEDULE, WOULD THEY STILL BE EXPECTING A PIECE OF THE A HUNDRED DOLLARS TICKET? ARE THEY, BECAUSE IT, I'M NOT SURE OF THAT.
I'LL JUST, I'LL JUST ROLL 'EM OUT HERE REAL QUICK.
IS THAT OKAY? DO YOU WANNA WELL, UH, OR DO YOU WANNA RESPOND ONE IN TIME? UNFORTUNATELY, WHERE I'M AT IS I HAVEN'T VETTED THE CONTRACT BECAUSE RIGHT.
THAT WAS A NICE, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T MADE THE DECISION.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE OF THE THINGS THAT WE ARE STILL GONNA BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR IF SOMETHING DOESN'T PROGRESS.
SO THERE WAS A, UM, THERE WAS ALSO SOME INFORMATION IN THERE THAT SAID BLUE LINE ONLY PROVIDES SERVICE, UM, AND MAINTENANCE ON SIGNS THROUGHOUT THE WARRANTY PERIOD.
BUT THERE WAS NO MENTION OF WHAT THE WARRANTY PERIOD WAS.
UM, THE OTHER IS, UM, TOWN HAD THE OPTION TO, TO EXTEND THE AGREEMENT.
SO MY QUESTION WAS, OKAY, WE'RE AT THE END OF THE TWO YEARS AND WE EXTEND THE AGREEMENT.
DOES THAT MEAN THAT WE HAVE TO START ALL OVER PAYING? I KNOW WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT PAYING FOR EQUIPMENT OUT FRONT, BUT WE'RE PAYING FOR EQUIPMENT, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE TICKETS.
WHAT DOES, WHAT DOES EXTENDING THE AGREEMENT MEAN MONETARILY FOR WHAT HAPPENS? WHAT, WHAT RESPONSIBILITY WILL WE HAVE IN THAT TWO YEAR CYCLE? RIGHT.
'CAUSE WE KNOW WHAT THE FIRST TWO YEAR CYCLE WOULD BE.
RIGHT? AND THEN THE, AND THEN THE, I THINK THE LAST THING WAS, AND AGAIN, IT'S IT'S THAT BY, IT SAID THAT THEY WOULD GET $25 PER VIOLATION EVENT PROCESSED EVEN.
UM, NOW IF IT DIDN'T SAY, EVEN IF IT'S CONTESTED, I'M, I'M SAYING IF IT IS CONTESTED, IF THEY'RE FOUND NOT GUILTY, DO WE STILL HAVE TO PAY HIM THE $25 ON THE A HUNDRED DOLLARS TICKET? AND THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION TOO.
THESE ARE ALL JUST GOOD QUESTIONS.
SO WE, SO WHAT, UM, MR. SAUNA AND I HAD DISCUSSED AFTER, WELL, AFTER MANY TIMES WE'VE HAD THESE CONVERSATIONS, IS, IS THAT, UM, THE CONTRACT THAT WE SAW AND WAS IN THE PACKET, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAVEN'T, WE WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT THAT ANY AGREEMENT TONIGHT OR ANY TALK ABOUT THIS, IT DOESN'T BAN US TO THE CONTRACT, THE CON UNTIL THERE IS A CONTRACT SIGNED.
THAT'S WHEN IT STARTS TO BIND.
SO LIKE, I'M, I ONLY SAY THAT.
'CAUSE IF COUNCIL SAYS YES, WE WANNA PURSUE IT.
RIGHT? AND LET'S SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, TWO WEEKS FROM NOW, GEORGIA'S GOT SOMETHING IN THE CONTRACT.
'CAUSE THERE WERE A COUPLE ITEMS THAT, THAT I ALSO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WERE TO CHANGE IN NOVEMBER AND COME JANUARY, THEY SAY WE ARE, NO, WE'RE GONNA TAKE THAT OUTTA THE CODE.
ARE WE RESPONSIBLE? BECAUSE WE CAN BY CODE, WE CAN NO LONGER DO THAT.
AND I THINK THAT CHIEF CHECKED INTO THAT AND THEY SAID NO, THEY, YOU KNOW, BUT AGAIN, THESE, I SPOKE TO THEM ON THAT TOO.
IT'S ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO BILL US FOR SOMETHING THAT CAN'T BE USED THROUGH THE LEGISLATION CONTRACT.
IT'S AN ILLEGAL CONTRACT AND AVOIDS US.
SO WHAT I MEAN BY SHARING THAT IS, IS THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE, WE ANY KIND OF CONSENSUS TONIGHT, OR EVEN WHEN, IF COUNSEL MOVES FORWARD AND WANTS TO TAKE ACTION ON A VOTE, THE VOTE WOULD JUST LITERALLY BE TO, YOU KNOW, MOVING FORWARD.
BUT THE CONTRACT ITSELF, UNTIL OUR LEGAL AND THEIR LEGAL, AND WE ALL COME TO AGREEMENT ON WHAT WE WANT IN THE CONTRACT, IT'S, IT'S NOT AN DONE DEAL UNTIL WE GET IN THAT.
AND SO THOSE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS.
LIKE MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT GEORGE MAKES SURE IS IN THE CONTRACT, THAT IF THEY VET IT, I MEAN, IF THEY APPEAL IT, THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.
SO THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WOULD BE IN THE CONTRACT.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HELPS YOU, THAT WE WOULD'VE LIKE A BASICALLY ANOTHER WORK SESSION ON THIS AFTER WELL, HE, HE, HE WOULD YEAH.
AHEAD DO THEIR THING AND YEAH.
AND IT MIGHT BE, THE CONTRACT WOULDN'T BE EXECUTED UNTIL, RIGHT.
I ARE DOTTED THE T'S ARE CROSSED.
AND THOSE COULD BE THINGS THAT, LIKE WHAT YOU JUST MENTIONED, OR MAYBE YOU HAVE SOMETHING, OR MAYBE YOU HAVE SOMETHING, THERE MIGHT BE PARTS OF THIS THAT, LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY THING, LIKE I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, THEY COULDN'T DO IT.
I'D LIKE TO STILL SEE IT IN THE CONTRACT, JUST IN IN WRITING.
BUT THERE MIGHT BE THINGS THAT COUNCIL MIGHT SAY, WELL, I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE COVERED ON THIS AND I WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE COVERED ON THAT.
THOSE ARE, THAT'S INPUT THAT WE COULD GIVE TO GEORGE TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR CONTRACTS AND THEN, AND IT COULD BE THAT BLUE LINE
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SAYS, NO, WE DON'T AGREE TO THAT, THEN EVERYTHING STOPS.AND AN ISSUE I HAVE TO COVER IS THIS IS A COOPERATIVE PROCUREMENT, RIGHT.
AND SO I HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW FAR WE COULD DEPART FROM THE CURRENT LANGUAGE.
WELL IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S NOT GONNA BE COOPER COOPERATIVE PROCUREMENT.
SO LET ME BACK UP TO THE VERY BEGINNING.
WE ACTUALLY LOOKED AT ULTIMATE AT FIRST.
WELL, BLUE LINE CAME TO US AND THEN THERE WAS AN INTEREST GENERALLY SPEAKING, AND THEN IT WAS LIKE, WHOA, WAIT A MINUTE, THIS IS A PROCUREMENT, LET'S PUT THE BRAKES ON HERE.
AND THEN IT WAS EXPLORED, UM, THE FACT THAT A, ANOTHER JURISDICTION HAD CONTRACTED, SO THAT MEANS ANOTHER JURISDICTION DID THE VETTING AS FAR AS, UH, AS FAR AS COMPETITIVE PROCUREMENT.
THAT MEANS ANOTHER, AT LEAST ONE OTHER JURISDICTION WENT THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCUREMENT PROCESS.
THAT IS WHAT POTENTIALLY COUNSEL WOULD BE PIGGYBACKING ON.
INCLUDING THE CONTRACT IN THEIR LANGUAGE.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? CORRECT.
SO I HAVE TO BE CAREFUL AS FAR AS MAKING SURE ANY DEPARTURES FROM WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US IS PERMITTED UNDER THE PROCUREMENT LAW.
AGREE WITH THAT? YES, A HUNDRED PERCENT.
IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE NOT GONNA USE A COOPERATIVE PROCUREMENT THOUGH.
WE'RE GONNA GET OUR OWN R F P.
WELL, THAT, THAT'LL BE QUESTION NUMBER TWO.
SO DID YOU, DID YOU ANSWER THE QUESTIONS? YEAH, I DO.
DO YOU WANNA, DO YOU, ARE YOU INTERESTED IN, UM, ARE YOU INTERESTED IN MOVING FORWARD WITH FINDING A COMPANY TO DO THIS OR WHATEVER? YES.
UH, THE ONLY QUESTION THAT I HAD WAS KIND OF PIGGYBACKING OFF HER, UH, COUNCILMAN DECO
HOW MUCH OF A DEPARTURE FROM, YEAH, THAT'S A FAIR QUESTION.
THAT'S A, FROM WHAT'S ALREADY, UH, BEEN AGREED TO WITH ANOTHER JURISDICTION, HOW MUCH OF A DEPARTURE IS ALLOWED UNDER STATE LAW? I HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
AND I'M NOT GONNA LIE, I FEEL LIKE WE PROBABLY, UM, OUR COUNCIL IS PROBABLY, UM, UH, VERY THOROUGH ABOUT OUR QUESTIONS AND OUR CONCERNS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO IT COULD VERY WELL BE THAT WE ARE THINKING OF THINGS THAT MAYBE OTHER PEOPLE DIDN'T THINK OF.
SO IT'S PROBABLY GOOD, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'RE GONNA NEED TO LOOK AT THE CONTRACT.
NO, I, I MENTIONED, I MENTIONED, UH, AT THE, AT THE LAST MEETING, THAT, UM, THOSE ARE REALLY DRAMATIC NUMBERS THAT THE CHIEF AND THE ORGANIZATION PRESENTED.
THEY ARE EXTREMELY CONCERNING AND DRAMATIC.
MY FEELING AT THAT TIME WAS THAT, UH, IS THERE AN INTERIM AND TALKING TO CHIEF, TALKING TO SHERIFF, TALKING TO OTHER LAW, TALKING TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT, UH, ORGANIZATIONS THAT COULD MONITOR THOSE STREETS MM-HMM.
WE ARE VERY THIN ON THE AVAILABILITY TO DO THAT.
I WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY WILLING TO EXPLORE SPEED CAMERAS.
BUT I WOULD NOT, I WOULD NOT SOLE SOURCE WHATEVER THE DEFINITION OF WHAT WE'VE DONE UP TILL THIS POINT.
I THINK THAT THIS, THAT THIS COUNCIL, UH, WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE IN GETTING COMPETITIVE BIDS, EVEN THOUGH ANOTHER BID OR OTHER ACTIONS HAVE BEEN TAKEN TO PURCHASE THESE BY OTHER COUNTIES.
WARREN COUNTY IS WARREN COUNTY, AND I BELIEVE THAT IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DO THE BEST WE CAN IN PROVIDING SERVICES FOR THIS COUNTY.
AND A SOLE SOURCE TO ANY COMPANY, I DON'T BELIEVE, UH, IS IN OUR BEST INTEREST.
IN, IN, UH, EXPLORING SPEED CAMERAS.
I'M NOT INTERESTED IN A SOLE SOURCE.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME THAT WE HAVE SIX, WAIT, WE HAVE A MORE THAN A CONSENSUS.
IT'S A UNANIMOUS DECISION BY THIS COUNCIL TO, UM, TO, TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SPEED CAMERAS IN SCHOOL ZONES.
RIGHT? WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE A CON, I MEAN, I KNOW WE'RE NOT TAKING ACTION HERE, BUT AT LEAST PEOPLE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT IDEA.
SO NOW WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO QUESTION NUMBER TWO.
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RIGHT? JOE, THE NEXT DIRECTION IS TO HOW WE WANT TO PROCEED OR MOVE FORWARD.
I I HAVE A QUESTION, BJ, MAYBE YOU AND JOE TOGETHER COULD TAG TEAM THIS QUESTION.
UM, WHAT, WHAT DOES, WHAT WOULD SOMETHING LIKE THIS COST TO, BECAUSE I KNOW WE, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT TIME AND MONEY.
UM, I'M JUST CURIOUS, WHAT WOULD SOMETHING LIKE THIS COST IF WE WERE, WHAT, WHAT DOES IT COST TO, UM, TO OPEN THIS UP TO OTHER PEOPLE BIDDING FOR IT? I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO, BUT YOU JUST HAVE TO WRITE SPECIFICATIONS AND, UH, WE WOULD PUT IT OUT, PUT IT OUT FOR R F P REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL.
SO IT WOULDN'T ACTUALLY BE LIKE AN INVITATION FOR BID.
IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE GONNA RECEIVE, UM, HARD RESPONSES BACK.
'CAUSE WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT WE WANT.
AN R F P GIVES YOU THE FLEXIBILITY TO BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, UM, REVIEW, UH, OTHERS BASED ON A CERTAIN CRITERIA.
SO THEY WOULD GIVE US THEIR PROPOSALS AND WE WOULD GO, WE WOULD HAVE AN EVALUATION PANEL PUT TOGETHER THAT WOULD INTERVIEW THOSE SELECTED.
UM, AND THEN ONCE WE, UH, SELECT THE TOP, THE TOP SELECTED, WE WOULD GET INTO NEGOTIATIONS WITH, WITH THAT FIRM AND BRING FORWARD A, UH, RECOMMENDATION FOR COUNSEL.
AND WITH THAT EVALUATION COMMITTEE, I'M, I'M GONNA, I KNOW ONE SHOULD NEVER ASSUME, BUT I AM GOING TO ASSUME HERE, I'M ASSUMING LAW ENFORCEMENT, LIKE OUR, OUR PD WOULD BE IN PART OF THE EVALUATION COMMITTEE.
UM, SO, SO MONEY, IT DEFINITELY TIME.
IT, IT IS TIME OPEN, OPEN SOMETHING UP, BUT NOT A TON OF MONEY.
UH, WE WOULD WRITE UP THE SPECIFICATIONS OURSELVES, UM, AND THEN, UH, PUT IT OUT AND KIND OF SEE WHAT'S, YOU KNOW, SEE WHAT'S RETURNED, UH, UH, ENTIRE PROCESS.
I MEAN, YOU'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT 60 TO 90 DAYS TURN AROUND 'CAUSE YOU HAVE TO PUT IT OUT FOR 20 DAYS, UH, AT THE VERY MINIMUM.
AND THEN YOU RECEIVE THE RESPONSES, EVALUATE THEM, GET THEM IN FOR AN INTERVIEW, UM, GO FOR NEGOTIATIONS.
SO IT IS, IT IS A, A BIT OF A PROCESS.
SO 60 TO 90 DAYS ADD 20, YOU'RE TALKING 80 TO 110 DAYS.
SO YOU'RE TALKING AT LEAST THREE MONTHS.
AND MORE THAN LIKELY FOUR, FOUR AND A HALF OR WHATEVER.
IS THERE ANOTHER QUESTION THAT COUNSEL HAS BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU ALL LIKE, WHAT TO DO MOVING FORWARD? IS THERE ANOTHER QUESTION FOR BJ JOE OR, OR KALE OR ANYTHING BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT THE NEXT PART? WE IT A CLARIFYING QUESTION? YEAH.
SO THERE'S, WITH AN R F P, THERE ARE NO BIDS.
YOU GUYS GET THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE A PROPOSAL TO US AND YOU, CHIEF TOWN MANAGER WOULD MAKE A RECOMMENDATION AS WE ALREADY HAVE, CORRECT.
I MEAN, IT COULD COME BACK TO THE, YOU KNOW, VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE.
UH, BUT WITH THE R F P, WE WOULD HAVE OUR, OUR FLEXIBILITY AS GEORGE WAS SPEAKING, WE CAN CHANGE THE CONTRACT.
WE CAN CHANGE, YOU KNOW, THE, UM, UH, WE GET INTO NEGOTIATIONS.
WE CAN ACTUALLY CHANGE IT TO MEET OUR, UH, SPECIFIC AND IF WE DID, I'M, I'M JUST ASKING 'CAUSE YOU CAN'T MAKE A DECISION UNTIL YOU HAVE ALL THE IN, UH, INFORMATION.
THIS WOULD NOT PRE, THIS WOULD NOT PREVENT BLUE LINE FROM ALSO, OR NO, THEY WOULDN'T NEED TO DO ANYTHING AGAIN.
'CAUSE THEY'VE ALREADY DONE SOMETHING.
UH, IT MAY BE THAT OUR SPECIFICATIONS ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN OKAY.
SO THEY, SO THEY COULD ALSO TURN IN INFORMATION SO THEY US AS WELL.
IF, IF THAT'S, YOU KNOW, UH, IT, YEAH, IT WOULDN'T PREVENT ANYONE FROM SOLICIT OR FROM RESPONDING TO THE R F P.
THE, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE FOR THEM WOULD BE THAT IF WE WENT THIS ROUTE, IF THERE WAS SOMETHING WE WANTED DIFFERENT IN OUR CONTRACT THAN WITH THE, WITH THE COUNTY DID, WE WOULD, WE WOULD HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY.
UH, BJ WOULD, UH, ANY POTENTIAL BIDDERS IN YOUR EVALUATION AND THEN RECOMMENDATION THAT COMES TO COUNSEL, WOULD THAT ALSO BE PROVIDED WITH THE OTHER BIDDERS SO THAT THE COUNSEL HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF SEE WHO BID WHAT AND WHY THE DECISION WAS MADE FOR A PARTICULAR BIDDER? HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? YOU CAN SEE, YOU KNOW, I'M NEW ON THIS, RIGHT? SO THE PROPOSALS, UM, YOU CAN REVIEW THE PROPOSALS, BUT THERE WOULDN'T ACTUALLY BE ANY NEGOTIATIONS FOR I UNDERSTAND.
WELL, WE WOULD BE ABLE TO REVIEW THE PROPOSALS THAT ARE SUBMITTED.
UM, YOU COULD REVIEW THEM, BUT, UM, YOU HAVE TO BE ON THE ACTUAL EVALUATION PANEL IN ORDER TO PROVIDE ANY KIND OF RECOMMENDATION.
SO YOU COULD REVIEW IT, CLARIFY.
PANEL WOULD MAKE A DECISION, BUT THE COUNCIL WOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO KNOW WHAT THE BIDS WERE AND WHAT THE DECISION WAS MADE OF THOSE
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BIDS.COUNSEL COULD REVIEW THE PROPOSALS.
AND THEN THE CA THE WHOEVER IT IS THAT MAKES THE DECISION AND THE RECOMMENDATION TO COUNSEL.
WE WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE ALL OF THE BIDS AND THE CHOICE OF THE REVIEW BOARD.
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MORE THAN, I'M SORRY? ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MORE THAN, I'M TALKING ABOUT RFPS.
WE GET RFPS FOR A PARTICULAR PURCHASE OPPORTUNITY.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE COUNCIL HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE WHO BID, WHAT THEY BID OH, AND WHAT THE DECISION IS.
AN EXCEL SPREADSHEET THAT WE NORMALLY GET.
WE NORMALLY GET THAT, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT I HAVEN'T NORMALLY SEEN ANYTHING.
YOU'VE SEEN OTHER FROM THE ELECTRICITY DEPARTMENT.
TRANSFORMERS, YOU GOT RF, THEY HAVE THOSE FACILITIES.
AND IF I'VE SEEN 'EM, THANK YOU
I, I, I PROBABLY THAT'S A LITTLE, I WAS GONNA SAY PROBABLY THOUGH IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY SAY THAT, BUT THAT'S WHAT IT IS.
IT GIVES YOU A LITTLE CHART AND IT'S LIKE, THIS COMPANY, THIS COMPANY I'VE SEEN COMPANY.
AND THEN YEAH, THAT'S, THANK YOU.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT YOU, YOU NEED I, BEYOND THAT, ARE YOU LOOKING FOR SOMETHING BEYOND THAT? NO, NO, NO, NO.
I JUST WANNA SEE WHO'S BIDDING.
WHAT ARE THEY BIDDING? RIGHT? YEAH.
UM, AND WHAT THE DECISION WAS AND THEN WHAT, WHAT THE DECISION WAS BASED ON CRITERIA.
THERE'S SOME, IT'S A SIMPLE PROCUREMENT PROCESS THAT I'M FAMILIAR WITH AND AN AWARD BASED ON WHATEVER CRITERIA IS SET UP.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE DO THAT.
HERE ARE SOME TONIGHT'S AGENDA FOR YES, THERE IS.
WELL, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE RFPS.
THE RFPS ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
SO YOU DON'T HAVE PRICES ON THE RFP, BUT YOU HAVE THE CRITERIA AS YOU SPEAKING.
SO, AND WE, UH, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, UM, SO THE RP, WE AS A, WE AS AN, YOU KNOW, COUNCIL, STAFF, EVERYBODY RIGHT.
WOULD HAVE INPUT AS TO WHAT CRITERIA WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
YES, WE CERTAINLY COULD, UH, WE COULD CERTAINLY COULD ALLOW THAT.
WE CAN WRITE THE SPECIFICATIONS TO TAILOR TO US.
I'M JUST THINKING LIKE EVEN IF COUNCIL LOOKED AT WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE AND SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT BE THAT THAT WOULD BE A CORRECT.
LIKE, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IT DOES THIS, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IT DOES THAT OR WHATEVER.
AND IT COULD BE THAT PEOPLE SAY, SORRY, MUCH BAD LUCK.
DID ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT PIECE OF IT, JOE? I JUST WANTED TO REITERATE STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS TO MOVE FORWARD.
AND I'LL JUST ADD WHEN I, I WAS ASKED BEFORE YOU GOT HERE, IF I HAD BEEN IN CONVERSATION WITH ULTIMATE, THEY DID REACH OUT TO ME MULTIPLE TIMES.
THEY TOLD ME AND, AND THEIR MESSAGES TO ME THAT THEY CHARGED FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE UP FRONT INSTEAD OF TAKING IT OUT OF THE CITATIONS.
AND JUST SO EVERYONE HERE WAS AWARE IN FULL DISCLOSURE, I THINK THAT WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE REASONS IT WASN'T A STAFF RECOMMENDATION, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT INFRASTRUCTURE LIKE THAT WOULD CAUSE, BUT I WOULD IMAGINE THAT WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THEIR PROPOSAL TO US, RIGHT? CORRECT.
UM, SO, SO WE ESTABLISHED THAT THIS COUNCIL WANTS TO, TO, TO, UH, HAVE, UM, B CAMERAS.
NOW THE QUESTION IS, WHAT, WHERE DO YOU GUYS WANNA GO FROM HERE? I CAN GO AROUND THE TABLE.
I'M GONNA GO BACKWARDS THIS TIME.
I'M DEFINITELY NOT, START WITH BRUCE.
HE GIVES ME A HARD TIME EVERY TIME I DO
I'M FINE FOR, WITH PUTTING IT OUT FOR AN R F P PARTICULARLY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT, UM, BECAUSE, UM, THERE IS THAT ISSUE OF THE CONTRACT AND MAKING, PERHAPS NOT BEING ABLE TO MAKE AS MANY MODIFICATIONS AS WE'D LIKE IF IT'S GONE THROUGH THAT GROUP PROCUREMENT PROCESS.
THAT'S NEW INFORMATION I GOTTA TELL YOU.
LIKE THAT I DIDN'T KNOW MM-HMM.
SO IT'S, I'M GLAD YOU POINTED THAT OUT, GEORGE.
I JUST ASSUMED WE WOULD NEGOTIATE A CONTRACT JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CONTRACT WE HAD TO NEGOTIATE.
SO THE POINT I WAS MAKING IS, UH, IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME AS I SIT HERE, WHAT EXTENT OF MODIFICATIONS CAN BE MADE GOTCHA.
UNDER A COOPERATIVE PROCUREMENT.
DO YOU WANT ME GO ACROSS
AS, AS ME A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED.
[00:30:01]
YOU'RE WERE, YOU KNOW, UM, YOU SEEM TO BE A PROVEN COMPANY.I HAVE COMPANY I HAVE CONFIDENCE IN, IN THE, UH, THE CHIEF'S ABILITY TO VET.
UM, AND WITH THAT SAID, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S A TWO YEAR, IT'S A TWO YEAR AGREEMENT.
UNLESS THERE'S SOMETHING THAT IS JUST MIND BOGGLING IN THE CONTRACT THAT, UH, IS GONNA BE A PROBLEM.
UH, YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GOING WITH BLUE LAW.
UH, I'M ALWAYS ONE FOR COMPETITIVE PROCUREMENTS.
I THINK IT IS THE, UH, PRUDENT THING TO DO.
I THINK, UH, WHEN WE ANSWER TO OUR COMMUNITY FOR DOING THE BEST JOB WE CAN, UH, I BELIEVE THAT IT'S, IT BEHOOVES US FOR DOING OUR RESEARCH.
IF IT TAKES 30 DAYS, IF IT TAKES 90 DAYS, UH, WE STARTED THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT SIX WEEKS AGO OR SO.
UM, THIS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE THINGS I WANNA RAM THROUGH.
WHETHER IT BE 30, 60, 90, I DON'T CARE.
I THINK IT IS, UH, INCUMBENT ON US TO DO THE BEST WE CAN, UH, WITH THE MONEY OR CONTRACTS THAT, UH, THAT WE COMMIT THIS COMMUNITY TO.
SO YOU'D BE OKAY WITH MOVING FORWARD WITH BLUE LINE? ABSOLUTELY.
COUNCILMAN INGRAM? NO, I'M, I'M OKAY WITH BLUE LINE, BUT I DO WANNA MAKE SURE, UM, THAT WE COVER ALL OF OUR BASES.
YOU KNOW, JUST LIKE MELISSA, JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW, BRUCE SAID, BUT WITH THEIR, WITH THEIR CONTRACT.
I MEAN, MAKE SURE THAT, THAT WE, THAT, THAT, UH, 'CAUSE THERE WERE LEGITIMATE CONCERNS, LIKE I SAID MM-HMM.
WELL, THAT WAS, I LIKED YOUR QUESTION.
THE ONE, THE ONE STANDING ARGUMENT THAT FOLKS ARE GONNA MEAN, AND AGAIN, OF COURSE SOME FOLKS THINK IT BE MONEY GENERATED, BUT I DON'T, IT'S NOT, I DON'T SEE IT THAT WAY.
BUT, UM, BUT YEAH, BUT I MEAN, AS LONG AS WE CAN COVER OUR BASES, SEE HOW MUCH WIGGLE ROOM WE HAVE WITH A COLLECTIVE, UH, TEST, AND I'M, I'M OKAY.
I, UM, MY ANSWER REMAINS THE SAME.
I HAVE DONE MY OWN RESEARCH INTO OTHER LOCALITIES THAT USE THIS EVEN OUTSIDE OF THE STATE OF VIRGINIA.
BLUE LINE SEEMS TO BE THE ONLY COMPANY IN THIS, UH, WELL, FROM WHAT I CAN SEE, BASICALLY ON THE EASTERN COAST WHERE WE ARE, THAT IS, UM, ALL LAW ENFORCEMENT OWNED AND OPERATED.
UM, WITH THAT BEING SAID, WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION, WITH THE FACT THAT IT'S NOT A BID, IT'S JUST A PROPOSAL.
UH, AND WE'RE NOT SPENDING THE TIMES MONEY ON, UM, THIS PROJECT, UH, THIS IS ONLY MOVING IT FORWARD TO THE CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS, WHICH IS WHAT IT WOULD'VE DONE ON THE CONSENT AGENDA THAT I'VE FORWARDED OFF OF LAST MONTH.
I AM IN FAVOR OF MOVING FORWARD WITH BLUE LINE.
SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S A CONSENSUS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH BLUE LINE.
WHEN I SAY MOVE FORWARD, LET ME BE VERY CLEAR.
MOVING FORWARD MEANS TO MOVE FORWARD IN LOOKING AT THE CONTRACT, UM, MAKING SURE THAT IT HAS THE THINGS IN IT THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR.
AND IF THERE IS SOMETHING MISSING, WHICH I, I DO FEEL LIKE IN THE LAST TIME WE DISCUSSED THIS AND EVEN THIS TIME AND WHO KNOWS BETWEEN NOW AND A WEEK FROM NOW, WE MIGHT EVEN HAVE MORE THINGS.
UM, I DO THINK IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT FOR, UM, GEORGE TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT THINGS THE COUNCIL IS MAKING SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'RE COVERING.
AND I'M, I'M GONNA BE REALLY COMPLETELY HONEST.
I WAS NOT PREPARED TO GIVE YOU THOSE THINGS.
UM, I KNOW YOU'VE SEEN MY EMAILS BEFORE WITH MY CONCERNS, UM, AND I THINK OTHERS HAVE SHARED, BUT IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL IF COUNCIL, UM, SENDS GEORGE THOUGHTS, CONCERNS, LIKE, LET'S MAKE SURE WE DO THIS.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE SO MUCH BETTER AS A GROUP WITH EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, NOT JUST ONE PERSON, BUT ALL SEVEN MINDS COMING TOGETHER AND MAYBE EVEN CHIEF AND OTHER PEOPLE TO SAY, LET'S MAKE SURE THAT, LET'S MAKE SURE, LIKE I SAID, LIKE THE LEGISLATURE THING AND, UH, LIKE WHAT YOU JUST SAID AND, YOU KNOW, OTHER, OTHER PARTS OF IT.
LET'S JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE, FOR THAT, I'M GONNA SAY THE WRONG COVER OURSELVES.
LIKE, MAKE SURE WE'VE COVERED EVERYTHING SO THAT, BECAUSE I, I DO KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE THAT HAVE SHARED CONCERNS AND I'VE READ ABOUT IT ON THE INTERNET TOO, OF LOCALITIES THAT GOT INVOLVED AND THEN
[00:35:01]
SAID, WELL, I DIDN'T REALIZE THIS, OR I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT.AND I DON'T WANT THAT TO BE US.
WE, WE, WE ARE ACTUALLY LUCKY BECAUSE WE CAN LOOK AT WHAT OTHER, WE CAN LOOK AT MISTAKES OTHER LOCALITIES MAKE AND WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT WE AREN'T MAKING THOSE SAME MISTAKES.
SO JUST TALKING WITH GEORGE HERE, WE COULD PUT THIS BACK ON NEXT MONDAY NIGHT OKAY.
AND GET DOWN IN THE WEEDS ON THE CONTRACT WITH COUNSEL.
SO, UM, YEAH, THAT'S ENOUGH TIME.
IT'S YOUR TIME THAT WE'RE, WE'RE ARGUING HERE.
HAVE THE ANSWERS THAT I'M, I'M BRINGING UP.
SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE YOURS AND, AND LIKE I SAID, PROBABLY WHAT WE CAN DO IS LOOK BACK OVER SOME OF THE THINGS CITIZENS SENT US.
SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE THOUGHT, LIKE I KNEW I HAD, YOU KNOW, I HAD A TON OF QUESTIONS, BUT MOST OF MINE WERE ANSWERED.
BUT I STILL WANNA GO BACK AND LOOK AT THEM AND MAKE SURE THAT, UM, 'CAUSE THERE WERE A COUPLE PARTS IN THERE.
I KNOW PAGE TWO WAS ONE THAT MADE ME NERVOUS.
'CAUSE IT, IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS, UH, I KNOW PAGE TWO HAD A PART ON THERE THAT SAID ANYTHING IN THIS CONTRACT IS, IT BASICALLY WAS SAYING ANYTHING WE'VE SAID BEFORE DOESN'T MATTER.
YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHICH CLAUSE I'M TALKING ABOUT, JORDAN.
AND IT WAS LIKE, IT'S WHAT'S IN THIS CONTRACT.
SO EVEN THOUGH AT, YOU KNOW, AT THE WORK SESSIONS, THEY SAID, WE WON'T BE THIS AND WE WANT THAT, WE WANT THIS.
BUT IF IT'S NOT IN THE CONTRACT, THEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO ABIDE BY IT AND WE DON'T MM-HMM.
'CAUSE WE DON'T WANNA COME BACK TWO YEARS FROM NOW AND SAY, WE GOTTA FORK OVER A BUNCH OF MONEY.
THEMATICALLY, I THINK THEY ALL FALL UNDER, ALMOST ALL OF 'EM FALL UNDER THE THEME OF WE DON'T WANNA PAY FOR SOMETHING, A SERVICE WE DON'T GET, OR WE DON'T WANNA BE PENALIZED.
WELL, WE KNOW WE DON'T HAVE MONEY IN THE BUDGET TO BE PAYING OUT A BUNCH OF MONEY.
SO, SO BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT MONDAY NIGHT, ANY QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, THINGS THAT YOU WANNA MAKE SURE THAT, THAT CAN BE INCLUDED IN THE CONTRACT AND BETWEEN NOW AND THEN, GEORGE, YOU'RE GONNA CHECK TO SEE WHAT, WHAT WIGGLE, MAKE SURE I WON'T SAY WIGGLE, BUT WHAT YEAH, PROCUREMENT.
SO, 'CAUSE LIKE I SAID, IF WE, YEAH, MY LAST COMMENT TO THE PUBLIC WOULD BE IN SPEAKING WITH THE TOWN MANAGER LAST WEEK, UM, AND SOME OF TOWN STAFF, EVEN IF WE WERE TO NEGOTIATE THIS CONTRACT IN THE NEXT 30 TO 60 DAYS WITH BLUE LINE, WE'RE LOOKING AT NEXT YEAR.
I MEAN, REALISTICALLY THEY HAVE, UM, FOR THEIR INSTALL OF INFRASTRUCTURE, THEIR PROBATIONARY PERIOD WHERE THEY GIVE WARNINGS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
I MEAN, THIS ISN'T A PROJECT THAT'S GONNA BE IMPLEMENTED IN 2023, EVEN DISCUSSING IT THIS MONTH.
BECAUSE THEN EVEN THEN THEY HAVE TO DO 30 DAYS OF WARNING.
SO STAFF KNOWS WHAT, WHERE WE'RE GOING WITH THAT.
SO, UH, MOVING ON TO NUMBER THREE, SHORT TERM RENTAL AT NINE 12 VIRGINIA AVENUE.
SO LAUREN, I THINK YOU ARE ACTUALLY UP FOR ALL OF THESE NEXT THREE ITEMS, RIGHT? DID YOU GET TO GO TO THE
UM, ALL RIGHT, SO THE FIRST, UH, THE SHORT TERM RENTAL IS AT NINE 12 VIRGINIA AVENUE.
SO THE APPLICANT HERE IS REQUESTING THE, UM, SHE USED PERMIT TO RENT THE ENTIRE TOWNHOUSE AS A SHORT TERM TOURIST RENTAL.
SO THERE'S THREE BEDROOMS THERE.
UH, SO THIS WOULD BE NO MORE THAN SIX OCCUPANTS AT ONE TIME, PLANNING COMMISSION HELD THE PUBLIC HEARING ON JULY 19TH, AND PLANNING COMMISSION VOTED TO RECOMMEND DENIAL OF THE APPLICATION BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ADEQUATE PARKING STAFF SUPPORTS THIS RECOMMENDATION.
UM, THIS, THESE ARE THE, THEY'RE NEWER TOWNHOMES THAT WERE CONSTRUCTED ON VIRGINIA AVENUE FROM THE PLAT.
YOU CAN SEE THERE'S BASICALLY ONE WAY IN AND THEN ONE WAY OUT.
THERE IS NO SPACE FOR ANY ADDITIONAL PARKING.
AND EACH UNIT OR DWELLING UNIT REQUIRES TWO PARKING SPACES.
SO THEY HAVE THE MINIMUM PARKING FOR THE HOUSES.
THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL PARKING THERE ON SITE.
MY, THAT WAS MY QUESTION IS AROUND THAT PARKING.
SO DO WE HAVE PARKING RULES FOR OWNERS? SURE.
LIKE IF I OWN MY, IF I OWN THAT TOWNHOUSE MM-HMM.
IS THERE A LIMIT ON HOW MANY PEOPLE, PEOPLE YOU HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST TWO SPACES OR TWO PARKING SPACES WHEN YOU CONSTRUCT IT? IS THERE A LIMIT ON HOW MANY CARS SHE CAN HAVE AT HER HOUSE? THAT COULD BE WRITTEN INTO THE H O A OR LIKE DEED RESTRICTIONS.
BUT IN THIS INSTANCE, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS ONE.
SO LIKE ON MY STREET, LIKE I'M NOT PART OF AN H O A OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
THERE'S NO LIMIT AS TO HOW MANY PEOPLE I CAN PARK IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE.
I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S ANY ENFORCEMENT DEEDS OR ANY S THAT WERE RECORDED INTO THE DEEDS FOR THESE THAT RESTRICTED
[00:40:01]
TO JUST TWO VEHICLES PER UNIT.UM, SO I JUST WAS WONDERING IF WE'RE HOLDING THIS SHORT TERM RENTAL TO A HIGHER STANDARD THAN WE ARE THE INDIVIDUAL OWNER, YOU HAVE TO, BECAUSE EVERY USE REQUIRES SOME TYPE OF PARKING.
SO I HAVE TO REQUIRE PARKING FOR ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN TOWN.
LIKE IF THEY WANNA COME IN AND, AND YOU HAVE A HOME, THEY NEED AT LEAST TWO OFF STREET PARKING SPACES.
UM, IF THEY THEN CONVERT, SAID HOME INTO A BUSINESS, THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE PARKING ADEQUATE FOR THAT.
EVEN A BUILDER WHEN THEY WERE BUILDING A BRAND NEW HOUSE HAS TO, HAS TO, THERE'S A PARKING TO CLARIFY, TO MELISSA'S POINT, IF WE DENY THIS AND THEY PUT A LONG TERM RENTER IN THERE, AND THERE'S NO RESTRICTION ON HOW MANY CARS THAT THAT RENTER CAN HAVE AND WHERE THEY PARK THEM, THEY CAN PARK THEM ANYWHERE ON VIRGINIA AVENUE ANYWHERE AND WALK TO IT.
SO IS THE ISSUE, WHAT WOULD MAKE THIS PASS FOR THE, FOR THE PEOPLE? BECAUSE MY THING IS I AM
THEY'D HAVE, I MEAN, YOU COULDN'T EVEN, UM, APPROVE IT AND SAY YOU CAN'T HAVE A OCCUPANCY OF, OF, LET'S SAY FOUR.
I MEAN, LIKE, MY, MY FAMILY OF FOUR COULD HAVE, WOULD HAVE ONE VEHICLE ON VACATION.
YOU KNOW, SO THAT'S, YOU LOOKED AT SIX OCCUPANTS AND SAID THAT THERE WOULD BE NOT ENOUGH PARKING.
SO TYPICALLY WHAT WE'RE DOING, BECAUSE THE PARKING STANDARDS IN CHAPTER ONE FORTY EIGHT DO NOT EXPLICITLY CALL OUT SHORT TERM RENTALS AS ZONING ADMINISTRATOR, I DETERMINE THE AMOUNT OF PARKING THAT'S NECESSARY.
SO WHAT WE'VE, THE PRECEDENT WE'VE SET IS THAT WE WOULD REQUIRE ONE PARKING SPACE PER BEDROOM.
HE'S GOT THREE BEDROOMS HERE, AND YOU GOT TWO PARKING SPACE.
SO YOU'RE NOT, AND HE DOESN'T HAVE, LIKE, THERE'S NO SPACE THERE TO ADD IT OR TO SHARE IT WITH A NEIGHBOR WITHOUT TAKING PARKING AWAY FROM THE NEIGHBORS.
IF, IF HE RENTED IT OUT FOR 30 OR MORE THAN 30 DAYS, I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER HOW MANY CARS ARE THERE, HOW MANY, THEY COULD HAVE THREE OR FOUR CARS PER UNIT.
BUT BECAUSE THEY'RE APPLYING FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL AND THEY WANNA DO THIS ON A, YOU KNOW, WEEKLY BASIS, AT LEAST THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE PARKING AT LEAST AS WELL.
WE'VE, WE'VE OVERTURNED THESE ON COUNCIL SINCE I'VE BEEN ON HERE.
UH, LATASHA AND I HAD THIS, THIS IS WHY ONE OF THE REASONS THAT SHORT TERM RENTALS IS ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT TO DISCUSS, UH, FIVE C BECAUSE IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
LIKE YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, I OWNED A HOUSE IN TOWN THAT DIDN'T HAVE OFF STREET PARKING, AND I COULD RENT IT TO ANYBODY I WANTED FOR MORE THAN 30 DAYS.
I COULD PUT A THREE YEAR LEASE ON IT, AND EVERY PERSON IN THAT HOUSE COULD BE A DRIVER WITH A VEHICLE AND PARK ANYWHERE ON THOSE ROADS THAT THEY WANTED.
WHEN I WENT TOWN STREETS, IT'S, IT'S
THERE'S SOME NEIGHBORS THAT TELL YOU YOU CAN'T PARK IN FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE.
YOU CAN PARK ANYWHERE ON THE TOWN STREET.
MY NEIGHBOR'S HAD A PARTY LOT.
CAN'T BLOCK, CAN'T BLOCK A DRIVEWAY, EVERY ROAD'S FULL.
BUT IF STAFF, I CAN'T MAKE A RECOMMENDATION THAT YOU PASS ANYTHING OR APPROVE ANYTHING THAT DOESN'T MEET OUR CODE COUNSEL.
SO IT'S, IT DOES COME TO COUNCIL, IT'S YOUR PREROGATIVE.
BUT I CAN'T MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION.
THIS APPLICANT IS NOT THE ONE.
'CAUSE I WATCHED THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
THIS IS NOT THE ONE WHERE THE PERSON BOUGHT A HOUSE BUT THEN WAS GOING BACK TO SCHOOL OR SOMETHING.
THE OTHER THING THAT YOU THINK ABOUT WITH SHORT-TERM VERSUS LONG-TERM RENTERS THAT I'VE EXPERIENCED AS A LANDLORD IS YOU GET SOMEBODY IN THERE WITH A LONG-TERM LEASE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT COUNSEL, THAT ADOPTED THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL CODE HAD IN MIND WAS DURING COVID, UH, GOVERNOR NORTHAM INITIATED SOMETHING CALLED, UM, I SENT IT TO LAUREN LAST YEAR.
IT'S, IT'S A TENANT'S, RIGHT? SO YOU HAVE RIGHTS AS A TENANT.
SO EVEN IF YOU DON'T PAY, YOU CAN'T BE EVICTED DURING CERTAIN THINGS.
SO YOU CAN RENT THIS FOR 12 MONTHS, SIX MONTHS, WHATEVER, TO A TERRIBLE OCCUPANT WHO HAS 10 CARS.
AND THEN YOU CAN'T EVICT THEM LEGALLY.
AND THAT HAPPENED AT A LOT OF PROPERTIES IN FRONT ROYAL DURING COVID.
UM, SO IT'S UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN IT ON THIS COUNCIL, THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE APPLYING FOR THESE SHORT-TERM RENTAL PERMITS TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A LONG-TERM OR A SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
SO IN MY INDUSTRY, SOMETHING I'M SEEING RIGHT NOW VERY HEAVILY IS WE HAVE AN INFLUX WITH 94 NEW TEACHERS THIS YEAR, 94, I BELIEVE IT WAS A HUGE INFLUX FROM PENNSYLVANIA AND NORTH CAROLINA.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY WANNA BUY A HOUSE IN WARREN COUNTY YET.
SO THEY'RE STAYING IN SHORT-TERM RENTALS FOR 30, 60 DAYS TO SEE.
AND THEIR CONTRACTS HADN'T TAKEN PLACE YET.
SO THEY'RE USING SHORT-TERM RENTALS TO POTENTIALLY BUY A HOUSE HERE, BUT THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT AREA THEY WANT TO BE IN.
BUT IT GIVES THE OWNER RIGHTS TO KICK THESE PEOPLE OUT WHEN THEY HAVE A SHORT TERM RENTAL PERMIT ON IT.
I THINK IT'S 50 NEW TEACHERS, BUT WELL TAKEN.
'CAUSE I WAS ACTUALLY TALKING TO SOMEBODY LAST NIGHT.
THERE'S A PERSON THAT'S WAITING FOR THEIR RENTAL TO OPEN UP AND THEY'RE LITERALLY DRIVING BACK AND FORTH FROM RICHMOND, WHICH I'M LIKE, I THINK I'D JUST GET A HOTEL ROOM LIKE
LIKE I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT, BUT YES, IT'S TRUE.
SO YOU, I'M GONNA GO AROUND AND ASK IF ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS.
BRUCE, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS,
[00:45:01]
COMMENTS ON THIS PARTICULAR ONE? I MEAN, I KNOW WE'RE NOT MAKING A DECISION NOW.THE DECISION TONIGHT AS TO WHETHER OR NOT TO MOVE IT ONTO THE, UM, AUGUST, IT WOULD BE ON THE AUGUST AGENDA IF WE MOVE FORWARD TO TAKE ACTION ON THIS.
WELL, I'LL JUST SAY ABOUT VIRGINIA AVENUE, THAT PORTION OF VIRGINIA AVENUE, THERE ISN'T ANY PARKING ON.
YOU THERE UHHUH? THERE'S NO ROOM TO PARK.
SO YOU'LL BE OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET, PLUS YOU GO UP THE HILL, YOU GO UP THAT BIG HILL.
UM, AND THEN, UM, YEAH, SAME DISTANCES BE DANGEROUS.
SO, UM, YEAH, I MEAN I'M, I'M WITH STAFF ON THIS.
UH, SO, UH, THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE I'M AT WITH THIS.
THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT.
YEAH, COUNCILMAN, I AGREE WITH STAFF.
AND JOSH? WELL, WE'RE MAKING A DECISION NOW.
WE MOVE FORWARD TO PUBLIC HEARING ALL WE'RE DOING.
I'M ASKING DID PEOPLE HAVE QUESTIONS, THINGS THAT WE COULD CLARIFY OR, BECAUSE IF WE DON'T MOVE IT FORWARD, STAFF CAN ALWAYS GO BACK AND GET MORE ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS AND BRING IT WELL, I THINK SHE ANSWERED MY QUESTION ABOUT THE, UH, YOU KNOW, IF THERE WAS AN H O A APARTMENT 'CAUSE YEAH, I, I WENT BY THERE.
I KNOW THE PARKING LOT AND IT, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S TIGHT.
I MEAN, THERE'S ROOM IN THERE FOR THE OCCUPANTS, BUT I THINK IF, IF THEY'RE TRYING TO GET MORE THAN, MORE THAN TWO SPOTS, IT'S NOT THERE, YOU KNOW, SO I'M, I'M, YEAH, I'M RELUCTANT WITH THIS ONE.
UNLESS SOMETHING COULD BE, SOMETHING CAN BE ADDED SOMEHOW SOME WAY.
COUNSEL MORRIS, EVERYBODY KNOWS HOW I FEEL ABOUT THIS.
THE ONLY TWO COMMENTS I'LL ADD IS I STAYED IN THREE AIRBNBS LAST MONTH.
ONE OF 'EM, I DIDN'T HAVE A VEHICLE AT ALL FOR.
I TRAVELED TO AN AREA AND I UBERED EVERYWHERE I WENT, SO I DIDN'T EVEN NEED TO PARK IN IT.
AND I HAD FIVE PEOPLE IN THAT AIRBNB.
UH, AND THE SECOND ONE WOULD BE THAT ONE OF THE OTHER AIRBNBS THAT I VISITED LAST MONTH, I HAD TO PARK WELL DOWN THE ROAD, WHICH YOU CAN DO ON VIRGINIA AVENUE, IF YOU CAN WALK WITH TWO LEGS OR ANYTHING ELSE.
SO I HAD TO PAY NIGHTLY TO PARK IN A, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC DOWNTOWN PARKING AND WALK TO MY AIRBNB.
BUT IT STILL WAS THE ONLY OPTION IN THAT TOWN THAT I VISITED WAS THAT AIRBNB WITH NO PARKING ON SITE.
SO I'M IN FAVOR OF PROTECTING PROPERTY OWNERS AND THEIR RIGHT.
SO I'M READY TO MOVE IT FORWARD.
SO TINA WILL ADD THIS ONE TO THE AUGUST AGENDA.
NEXT UP IS FOUR 17 CURF AVENUE.
AND SO THIS APPLICANT HAS A TWO BEDROOM SINGLE FAMILY HOME.
THEY'RE REQUESTING NO MORE THAN FOUR OCCUPANTS.
UM, THIS PERSON, I BELIEVE SENT A LETTER TO COUNSEL.
SHE PURCHASED THIS HOUSE AND THEN SHE GOT ACCEPTED INTO SCHOOL.
SHE'S NOT GONNA BE LIVING HERE.
SHE CURRENTLY PARKS ON THE STREET, WHICH WE PERMIT.
UM, BUT IN THIS INSTANCE, WE HAVE TO, STAFF HAS TO RECOMMEND DENIAL.
UM, BECAUSE SHE DOES NOT HAVE IN, SHE HAS INSUFFICIENT ORDER, AT LEAST PER HOUR PER OUR ORDINANCE OBVIOUSLY HAS PARKING ANY OTHER NIGHT.
AND THE REASON SHE WANTS TO DO DO IT AS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL AND NOT A LONG-TERM RENTAL IS SO THAT WHEN SHE COMES BACK ON BREAKS, LIKE CHRISTMAS BREAK, THINGS LIKE THAT, SHE CAN STAY AT HER HOUSE.
HOW ABOUT INSTEAD OF ME JUST GOING AROUND THE TABLE, ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT NOW? YEP.
IT'S JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHY WE NEED TO REVISIT THE SHORT-TERM RENTAL CODE AND NOT PUNISH THE HOMEOWNERS AS A RESULT.
I KNOW IT'S NOT ZONING'S FAULT, I KNOW IT'S NOT PLANNING COMMISSION'S FAULT, BUT IT'S JUST, WE'VE IMPLEMENTED THIS AND WE'RE LIKE, WE'LL WORK OUT THE KINKS AS WE GO.
AND THIS HAS BEEN ONE THAT COMES UP ON ALMOST EVERY OTHER, AT LEAST SHORT TERM RENTAL IS THE PARKING.
THE COUNT JUST OUTTA, I KNOW WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS ON FIVE C, BUT JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, THE COUNTY DOESN'T HAVE ANY PARKING REGULATIONS WITH THEIR SHORT TERM RENTAL.
BUT DO YOU KNOW, DO YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA ASK YOU FOR THE COUNTY, Y'ALL.
DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY KIND OF PARKING REGULATIONS ON YOUR SHORT, SHORT TERM RENTAL? PROBABLY NOT.
'CAUSE IT'S OUT IN THE COUNTY.
RIGHT? I WAS GONNA SAY, THEY CAN PARK.
SOME OF THEIRS WON'T EVEN GET UP THOUGH, CAROLINA.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ONE? I, I HAVE VISITED, I'VE NOT VISITED, BUT I HAVE GONE BY EACH OF THESE, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE WHEN THEY GOT DENIED I WAS LIKE, WHAT'S GOING ON? THIS ONE FOR ME, I I WILL SAY THE PARKING IS BETTER HERE ON THE STREET.
SO UNLIKE THE OTHER ONE WHERE I KNOW THE PARKING'S TIED UP CLOSE BY ANYWAYS, THIS ONE, THIS, THIS PARTICULAR SPOT, I DON'T THINK PARKING'S GONNA BE IN IT.
I MEAN, I KNOW THERE'S LIKE SAID NOT, BUT
[00:50:01]
THIS ONE I FEEL THAT THERE'S AMPLE STREET PARKING.AND THE THING IS, WITH THIS ONE, SHE COULD CHOOSE TO INSTALL A DRIVEWAY.
SHE DOES NOT WANT TO INSTALL A DRIVEWAY.
UM, BUT I CAN'T PART OF HER YARD AS I RECALL, WHAT, WHAT I EITHER, WHAT I HEARD HER SAY AT PC OR IF WHAT WE READ.
SO THIS ONE, THIS ONE I WANT A LITTLE BIT THOUGHT, DIFFERENT THOUGHTS ON THIS, BUT WHEN I MAKE MY RECOMMENDATION, I CAN'T CONSIDER THE COST OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
SO THIS, THIS ALSO REQUIRES TWO DWELLING SPACES, TWO OFF STREET SPACES, OFF STREET, OFF STREET, AND THEN ONE PARKING SPACE PER BEDROOM.
BUT SHE JUST HAS NO OFF STREET PARKING HERE.
RIGHT? YEAH, I'VE SEEN, I'VE SEEN THE PROBLEM.
WELL THAT, THAT STREET IN GENERAL DOESN'T HAVE A LOT.
I MEAN, I GREW UP IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD BEFORE WE MOVED TO MY NEW NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF SPACE EITHER.
BUT HONESTLY SOME OF THOSE OLDER NEIGHBORHOODS, LET'S BE HONEST, WHEN THEY WERE BUILT, 'CAUSE THAT WAS BUILT AROUND THE, AT, YOU KNOW, TEX TIME, AMERICAN VISCUS IS WHAT THEY WOULD CALL PEOPLE.
THE OTHER COMMENT I'LL HAVE TO ADD IS OUR PARKING AND OUR CODE FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTAL GOES BY THE NUMBER OF BEDROOMS. SO WE COULD HAVE EASILY PUT AN EXCEPTION ON THE FIRST ONE TO SAY IF YOU'RE HAVING SIX PEOPLE, YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY MORE THAN TWO CARS.
STAFF CAN'T SAY THAT 'CAUSE IT GOES AGAINST CODE.
BUT ALSO WHEN I RENT AN AIRBNB, I HAVE THREE KIDS.
MY THIRD BEDROOM'S NOT BEING USED BY DRIVERS.
SO JUST BECAUSE IT HAS THREE BEDROOMS OR TWO BEDROOMS DOESN'T MEAN PEOPLE STAYING IN ALL THOSE BEDROOMS ARE GONNA BE DRIVERS.
MOST OF THE TIME IT'S ONE OR TWO CARS.
USUALLY STAFF WISE, WE JUST HAVE TO
I'M JUST LETTING COUNCIL KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING.
AND THEN WHAT'S THE PROCESS DO WE HAVE IN PLACE TO LIKE REVISIT THIS? WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT IT TONIGHT, BUT IT'S BEEN A WHILE.
UM, SO WHEN WE GET TO FIVE C I'LL GIVE YOU THE HISTORY.
SO, ALL RIGHT, CAN WE MOVE? SO IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH PUTTING THIS ON THE AUGUST 28TH, UM, FOR A PUBLIC HEARING AND A VOTE ACTION.
ALL RIGHT, MOVING ON TO THREE C, WHICH IS SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR TWO APARTMENTS AT 1127 NORTH ROYAL AVENUE.
SO THIS APPLICATION IS BECAUSE, UH, STAFF CONDUCTED A PROPERTY MAINTENANCE INSPECTION AT THE REQUEST OF A TENANT.
UH, WHEN WE DID THE INSPECTION, WE FOUND THAT THE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING UNIT FAMILY HOME HAD BEEN CONVERTED INTO, UM, TO MULTIPLE UNITS.
THERE WERE AT LEAST TWO APARTMENTS ON THE GROUND FLOOR IN THE COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.
WE DO NOT PERMIT THAT, UH, WITHOUT A SPECIALTY PERMIT.
THEY DID NOT HAVE SUFFICIENT PARKING.
HOWEVER, THEY WERE ABLE TO OBTAIN A LEASE FROM A ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNER TO GIVE THEM ENOUGH PARKING.
SO I WAS ABLE TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL ON THIS ONE.
AND I BELIEVE PLANNING COMMISSION IS FINE.
ARE THEY GET A FINE FOR THAT? I'M JUST CURIOUS.
UM, WE TEND TO CHARGE DOUBLE WHEN THEY HAVE TO COME IN AND GET THE ZONING PERMIT.
SO WITH THIS ONE WE JUST CHARGE THE STANDARD, YOU KNOW, $400 FEE THAT COVERS OUR ADVERTISING AND THAT'S BASICALLY IT.
UM, BUT THEN, UM, SOME OF THE, THE PERMITS THAT THEY NEED TO GET ARE ALSO THROUGH THE COUNTY.
SO FOR US, I CAN CHARGE 'EM DOUBLE ON THE ZONING PERMIT.
I THINK IT KNOCKS IT UP TO 50 BUCKS AND THEN THE BUILDING PERMIT END OF IT IS GONNA BE IN THE, THE COUNTY'S PURVIEW.
JUST OUTTA CURIOSITY, I, I AM CURIOUS, WAS THIS HOMEOWNER, IS THE THIS APPLICANT, IS THIS APPLICANT THE ONE THAT TURNED THIS INTO APARTMENTS? YOU DON'T KNOW? NOT ENTIRELY.
I THINK THEY PURCHASED IT AND THEN I THINK THEY STARTED DOING OKAY AND IT HAD BEEN CONVERTED.
THEN THEY DID SOME ADDITIONAL RENOVATIONS AND WORK.
I WAS JUST, I WAS JUST CURIOUS 'CAUSE I WAS LIKE, YEAH.
UH, COUNSEL QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS THING? MELISSA ASKED ONE.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A QUESTION? PC RECOMMENDED APPROVAL FOR THIS BECAUSE OF THAT.
TO PIGGYBACK OFF OF YOUR, IF WE FIND THEM, ONE OF THE REASONS COUNSEL THAT IMPLEMENTED SHORT-TERM RENTALS DECIDED TO WAS BECAUSE WE SAT HERE ONE NIGHT IN A MEETING AND ALL GOT ON AIRBNB.COM AND EVERYBODY IN FRONT ROYAL WAS DOING SHORT TERMINALS AND WE WEREN'T MAKING ANY MONEY OR REGULATING THEM SO WE COULDN'T REGULATE OR FIND THEM.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, CONCERNS, COMMENTS, AND EVERYBODY'S GOOD? WE'RE GONNA PUT IT ON PUBLIC HEARING FOR AUGUST OR TINA SWEAR YOU HAVE AT LEAST THREE PUBLIC HEARINGS FOR AUGUST.
UM, YEAH, FOUR A IS NOT YOU, YOU'RE, YOU'RE SAFE.
[00:55:01]
WE HADN'T SEEN YOU IN A WHILE, ROBBIE.I KNOW YOU JUST WANTED TO COME BACK TO ONE OF OUR MEETINGS.
UM, SO V O HAD A WEBINAR ONLINE FOR THE, UH, V O REVENUE SHARING.
SO DURING THAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT A NEW, UH, BLANKET RESOLUTION, UM, FORM THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO GET LOCALITIES TO GO TO.
UM, THE RESOLUTION IS GOOD FOR ONE YEAR.
SO LIKE OURS, WE COULD USE, WE'LL USE FOR THE REVENUE SHARINGS FOR, UH, PROSPECT STREET BRIDGE AND THE, UH, CHANDEL AVENUE LIGHTING FOR THE, A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY THAT WAS LEFT ON THAT.
UM, AND THEN FOR THE RAZA ROAD, FOR THE TAPS PROGRAM.
SO THAT ONE BLANKET REVO RE RESOLUTION, RESOLUTION WOULD COVER, COVER ALL THREE OF THOSE PROJECTS.
UM, THE TWO, PROBABLY THE TWO BIGGEST DIFFERENCES WITH THE BLANKET ONE, UM, ONE, IT USED TO BE THERE HAD TO BE A SIGNATURE AUTHORITY, SO IT ACTUALLY HAD A TOWN MANAGER'S NAME.
UM, NOW IT JUST SAYS TOWN MANAGERS.
THAT WAY IF THERE'S ANYTHING, SOMEBODY CAN STILL SIGN IT.
UM, THE SECOND THING IS NOW THE RESOLUTION DOES NOT HAVE THE COST.
UM, ONCE THE AGREEMENT'S DONE, THEN THE TOWN SIGNS IT.
UM, THAT WAY IF YOU PUT THE COST IN THE RESOLUTION, THE PROBLEM THEY'RE HAVING IS THEN THEY WANT THE INFLATION AND ALL THAT.
AND YOU, SOME OF THE SMART SKILLS, LIKE 10 YEARS, IF THE COST ENDS UP BEING WAY MORE, THEY'LL ONLY DO WHAT'S IN THE RESOLUTION SO THAT WAY IT DOESN'T TIE YOU, COMMIT YOU TO A LOWER AMOUNT.
UM, SO I GUESS THAT'S WAY THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO KIND OF RESOLVE SOME OF THOSE ISSUES.
UM, ON THAT, I MEAN THAT'S PROBABLY THE BIG THINGS TO LIKE, IT'S GOOD FOR A YEAR.
UM, SO NEXT YEAR WE'RE DOING PROJECTS, WHETHER IT'S REVENUE, SMART SKILL, WE'LL HAVE TO COME BACK AND DO NO ONE FOR ANY OF THOSE PROJECTS, UM, THAT WE APPLY FOR IN ANY OF THE VDO PROGRAMS. STORAGE.
NO, I WAS JUST GONNA SAY, DO YOU REMEMBER THE CONVERSATION YOU AND I HAD RECENTLY ABOUT I WAS GONNA BE REALLY CAUTIOUS ABOUT ANY RESOLUTIONS THAT WE HAVE MOVING FORWARD, BUT, UH, 'CAUSE BUT SO YOU'RE GOOD WITH THIS? I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE WORDING IN ONE OR TWO.
I, I DON'T CLAIM TO UNDERSTAND THE ENTIRE PROCESS WOULD BE TO, BUT I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ONE OR TWO, NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER TWO, WELL, THE, THE BIG THING IS WE HAVE TO HAVE THESE TO APPLY TO THE FINAL APPLICATION.
UM, THE PRE-APPLICATION, WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE IT FOR THE FINAL, WHICH JUST OPENED.
WE HAD TO HAVE TURNED IN BY OCTOBER 5TH MM-HMM.
TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR THE FUNDING.
AND ADAM IS OUR REPRESENTATIVE HERE ON VDOT.
SO ADAM SITS ON THE SUBCOMMITTEE, TRANSPORTATION, AND WE'VE BEEN LEARNING A LOT ABOUT THE SMART SCALE AND REVENUE SHARING, AND IT'S VERY, VERY COMPETITIVE.
SO ANYTHING TO EASE OUR STAFF'S BURDEN TO GET A REQUEST IN FOR THAT MONEY.
ANYBODY ON COUNCIL HAVE AN ISSUE? BECAUSE I'M ASSUMING THAT RESOLUTION, IF EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH IT, WOULD BE ON THE AUGUST 28TH MM-HMM.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY CONCERNS OR QUESTIONS THAT YOU NEED ANSWERED NOW? WE GOOD? I THANK YOU, ROBBIE.
SO, UM, FOUR B AND C ARE, UM, SO WE'LL DO B FIRST, WHICH IS, UH, VARIOUS GRADES OF STONE.
UM, I KNOW WE GOTTA DO EACH OF THESE SEPARATELY, BUT IT'LL PROBABLY GO JUST AS FAST ONE TO THE OTHER.
ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT FOUR? IT'S, UH, KIND OF HOUSEKEEPING.
EVERY YEAR WE, UH, PUT THESE OUT FOR BID.
UH, WE ARE GETTING MORE BIDS THIS YEAR, LUCKILY.
UH, MORE COMPETITION MEANS EXACTLY.
UM, BUT, UM, UH, THERE, UH, TO BE USED FOR LIKE, SAY STONE AND ASPHALT, WE, UH, PUT IT OUT.
IT'S FOR, UH, FIRM FIXED PRICING.
SO, YOU KNOW, AS WE NEED IT, WE WOULD PURCHASE IT BASED ON THE FIXED PRICING.
JUST A SPELLING ERROR IN THE SUMMARY OF THE DATE.
ALRIGHT, WHAT ABOUT, SO, SO LITERALLY FOR B FOUR C, WE'RE KNOCKING BOTH OF THOSE OUT.
RIGHT? EVERYBODY GOOD? NOBODY'S, SO, TINA, THERE YOU GO.
AND THOSE DON'T TAKE A, UM, PUBLIC HEARING, THAT'S JUST ACTION.
NEW BUSINESS, UH, REVISIONS TO THE LIAISON COMMITTEE MEETING POLICY.
AND FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT WERE AT OUR LAST, WELL, LAST FEW LIAISON COMMITTEE MEETINGS, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS.
SO JOE, IT'S GOT YOUR NAME OUT OF IT.
UM, THERE ARE BASICALLY THREE REVISIONS THAT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT TONIGHT.
THE FIRST ONE IS UNDER MEETING SCHEDULE.
IT DID SAY THAT WE WOULD ROTATE BETWEEN THE TOWN AND COUNTY EVERY SIX MONTHS, WHICH IN REALITY, WE WANNA ROTATE EVERY QUARTER.
UM, DOWN AT THE LAST BIT, ON THE FIRST PAGE UNDER MEETING AGENDA, WE CHANGED THE DEADLINE, PUT ITEMS ON THE AGENDA FROM 1:00 PM TUESDAY TO THE CLOSE OF BUSINESS ON THURSDAY THE WEEK PRIOR TO THE MEETING.
AND THEN THE THIRD THING THAT, UH, IS A CHANGE
[01:00:01]
IS THE LAST PARAGRAPH ON PAGE TWO, MANAGER AND ADMINISTRATOR REPORTS.UH, WE ARE CHANGING THAT REPORT FROM AN ORAL TO A WRITTEN, AND ALSO THE TIMELINE OF THAT REPORT TO BE PROVIDED THE MONTH PRIOR TO THE LIAISON MEETING, SO THAT BOTH BOARDS WOULD'VE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW AND THEN BE ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS AT THE LIAISON MEETING.
SO THOSE ARE BASIC THREE MAJOR CHANGES IN LIAISON, UM, POLICY EXHIBIT.
SO COUNSEL, I DON'T, UM, I, I'M NOT SURE, YOU KNOW, I, I JUST WANNA SAY ONE THING.
THERE WAS, AS YOU KNOW, THOSE OF YOU THAT WERE AT THE LEE'S I'M MEETING, UM, THAT LAST ONE WAS THE ONE THAT HAD A LITTLE BIT MORE DISCUSSION.
AND THEN AFTER A WHILE WE JUST KINDA SAID, WE'LL, YOU KNOW, TALK ABOUT IT WITH OUR RESPECTIVE, UH, GROUPS.
UM, THERE WAS CONVERSATION ABOUT THE FACT THAT, UH, FIRST OFF, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF IT, RIGHT? WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE TOWN MANAGER, UM, FOR, UH, GIVING INFORMATION TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS? WHAT PURPOSE IS IT FOR THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR GIVEN INFORMATION TO THE COUNCIL? AND SO THE REASON WHY I SAID WHAT IS THE PURPOSE IS BECAUSE WHEN WE WERE DISCUSSING IT, IT WAS, IS THIS FOR OUR KNOWLEDGE OR IS IT FOR THE PUBLIC'S KNOWLEDGE? AND THE REASON WHY, UM, THAT'S WHY LIKE, IF IT'S WRITTEN, IF THEY'RE JUST GIVING, IF, IF, UH, SAY DR.
DALEY JUST GIVES US A REPORT ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE COUNTY, HIS REPORT, WE READ IT, YOU KNOW, A MONTH BEFORE THE LIAISON MEETING AND WE READ IT, RIGHT? WE READ IT.
UH, BOARD OF SUPERVISORS READS JOE'S REPORT.
UM, AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN THE PURPOSE OF THAT IS TO EDUCATE US ON WHAT'S GOING ON.
US AS IN COUNCIL, THOSE THAT RECEIVED THE REPORT, IF THE PURPOSE OF THIS IS TO GIVE TOWN CITIZENS THE OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE COUNTY, THEN A WRITTEN REPORT IS NOT REALLY GONNA, UM, MEET THAT PURPOSE.
UM, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? DO YOU UNDERSTAND? LIKE IF IT'S WRITTEN AND WE'RE THE ONLY ONES READING IT, THEN WE'RE THE ONLY ONES READING IT.
BUT IF WE WANT THIS TO BE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR CITIZENS TO HEAR WHAT, UM, WHAT DR.
DALEY OR MR. WALTZ SHARES, THEN IT WOULD, THEN IT WOULD NEED TO STAY ORAL.
AND THAT WAS THE CONVERSATION AT, UM, THAT WAS THE CONVERSATION AT THE LIAISON MEETING IS, DO WE WANT DR.
DALEY TO COME AND PRESENT AT A COUNCIL MEETING WITH AN AGENDA ITEM ONCE EVERY WHATEVER, AND JUST SHARE WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE COUNTY? OR ARE WE OKAY WITH JUST GETTING A WRITTEN REPORT? SO REALLY I THINK THE QUESTION IS, WHAT, WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF IT? WHAT DO WE, WHAT DO WE WANT? I'M SURE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS IS GONNA HAVE THE SAME CONVERSATION.
LIKE, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS? IT'S A LITTLE TRICKIER BECAUSE FOR ONE THING, LIKE TOWN CITIZEN, QUITE HONESTLY, I MEAN, AS A TOWN CITIZEN, I FOLLOW THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
'CAUSE I AM A COUNTY CITIZEN, RIGHT? SO I NEED TO NOT ONLY KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE TOWN, I NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE COUNTY.
'CAUSE I'M ALSO A COUNTY CITIZEN, COUNTY CITIZENS THAT ARE JUST COUNTY, NOT TOWN.
I, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY REALLY FOLLOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE TOWN.
'CAUSE IT, YOU KNOW, WHILE THEY DRIVE THROUGH IT AND USE IT, THEY'RE NOT PAYING ANYTHING TOWARDS IT.
SO I, I THINK WE AS TOWN CITIZENS ARE PROBABLY IN A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT SITUATION, NEED TO KNOW BASIS THAN THEY ARE.
SO, SO WHAT ARE YOUR ALL'S THOUGHTS? DO YOU, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, ABOUT EACH OF THESE ITEMS? BUT I WANTED TO START WITH THE THIRD ONE.
'CAUSE I THINK THE THIRD ONE WAS THE ONE THAT IS, WAS DISCUSSED MORE AT THE LIAISON MEETING.
SO WOULD YOU ALL WANT IT TO STAY WRITTEN? DO YOU WANT IT TO BE ORAL WHERE THEY COME AND PRESENT? UM, THAT DID USED TO HAPPEN, BUT HONESTLY IT IS, IT, IT STOPPED HAPPENING.
I WOULD SAY LITERALLY, I THINK IT STOPPED THE RIGHT WHEN COVID BEGAN.
THAT'S WHEN I KNOW THE TOWN MANAGER AT THAT TIME WENT TO BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING AND SHARED.
AND I WANNA SAY MAYBE ONCE WHEN I WAS ON COUNCIL, DID THE BOARD OF SUPER, UH, COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR COME AND THEN, AND THEN IT STOPPED AT ONCE COVID STARTED.
'CAUSE EVERYTHING CHANGED THINGS AND THEN IT'S JUST NEVER RESUMED.
SO, CO THOUGHTS, COMMENTS? JOE'S GOT A COMMENT.
JUST WANTED TO ADD, DURING MY FIRST TENURE MM-HMM.
I LIKE THE IDEA OF A WRITTEN REPORT.
AND THEN IF ONE OF 'EM CAN'T BE PRESENT, THAT'S ALWAYS NICE.
I WILL SAY, WHILE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE COUNTY PROBABLY DON'T FOLLOW THE TOWN AS CLOSELY, A LOT OF OUR BUSINESS OWNERS IN THE TOWN LIMITS THAT LIVE IN THE
[01:05:01]
COUNTY.SO WHILE THEY DON'T PAY DIRECTLY, THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN WHAT HAPPENS IN THE TOWN.
SO I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
LIKE WHERE THE WRITTEN REPORT MM-HMM.
IT'S THE REAL QUESTION IS, IS THE RI IS DO WE WANT THEM TO COME AND REPORT TO THE OTHER BOARD BY LITERALLY READING THE BULLET POINTS OF WHAT'S WRITTEN? BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY DID.
I MEAN, I'M SURE THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.
I'M JUST SAYING THAT WAS WHAT THE PURPOSE IN THE PAST WAS TO EDUCATE THE OTHER ON WHAT WAS GOING ON.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? UM, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE IT'S AT THE MEETING, SO THEY'D HAVE TO WATCH THE MEETING.
UM, SO I, AND AGAIN, I THINK IT'S LIKE YOU SAID, WRITTEN, YOU WANNA READ IT, I WANNA READ IT.
WE ALL WANNA READ IT, BUT EVERY TOWN CITIZEN ISN'T READING IT UNLESS WE PUT IT SOMEWHERE.
I SAY WHAT, WHICH WE WOULD SOMEWHERE.
WE WOULD, I THINK WRITTEN SUFFICES.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? I JUST WANT TRANSPARENCY.
I THINK THE WRITTEN REPORT ALLOWS FOR THAT.
THERE'S NOT JUST SOME OFF THE CUFF THE DAY OF THE LIAISON MEETING.
AND THEN THAT WAY NOBODY'S SURPRISED BECAUSE THERE'S LIKE DEVELOPMENTS, THE LIAISON COMMITTEE'S TALKED ABOUT FOR YEARS, SINCE EVEN PRIOR TO MY TIME WITH COUNCIL THAT ARE STILL ON THE AGENDA.
THEY, THEY ACTUALLY AREN'T PRESENTING, JUST TO CLARIFY.
THEY'RE NOT PRESENTING AT THE LIAISON MEETING.
THEY'RE PROVIDING PRESENT, THEY WOULD PRESENT AT A TOWN COUNCIL MEETING.
SO DR THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR WOULD PRESENT AT THE TOWN COUNCIL MEETING.
THEY WOULD HAVE AN AGENDA ITEM ONE MONTH PRIOR.
WELL THAT WAS, IF THEY WERE DOING THE WRITTEN BEFORE, HOW DID IT GO, JOE? Y'ALL SHOWED UP AT A BOARD OF SUPERVISOR, BUT ONLY FOUR TIMES A YEAR, RIGHT? OR THREE TIMES? UH, FOUR TIMES A YEAR.
AND I DID IT ON A QUARTERLY BASIS.
UM, SOMETIMES THERE WAS A LITTLE Q AND A BACK AND FORTH ON, ON THAT, BUT IT REALLY, BUT THAT WAS WHEN BOARD SUPERVISOR HAD, FOR ME, IT WAS A DAY MEETING.
SO IT WASN'T AS BIG AS IMPACT AS COMING TO ONE OF OUR MEETINGS AT NIGHT.
SO FROM MY, I CAN DO WHATEVER COUNCIL DESIRES.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY WRITTEN? IS IT, IS IT A WRITTEN PRESENTED TO THE COUNCIL OR WRITTEN SUBMITTED FOR DISCLOSURE? I, AND, AND THE REASON I ASK ONE, I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE TALKING FOR RIGHT NOW, BUT TWO, I THINK, UH, THE TOWN IS VERY INTERESTED IN OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COUNTY.
AND I THINK THE BEST WAY THAT WE CAN COME TOGETHER IS TO PHYSICALLY HAVE BOTH TOGETHER PRESENTING THE, UH, MINUTES, IF YOU WILL, OF THE, UH, OF, OF A LIAISON MEETING.
A WRITTEN REPORT IS FINE, BUT I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE, IF WE'RE GONNA GET A REPORT FROM THE COUNTY, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOMEONE FROM THE COUNTY PRESENT TO THIS, TO THIS BODY, UM, UH, UH, TO BE AVAILABLE TO OUR COMMUNITY.
UM, AND IF THAT IS ALLOWABLE TO BE ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS OR MAKE COMMENTS.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT FITS IN THE QUESTION YOU'RE ASKING.
SO, AND, AND I, HERE'S WHERE I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY SOME CONFUSION IS BECAUSE IT HADN'T HAPPENED FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
I MEAN, THAT'S, I MEAN, AS I'M SITTING HERE THINKING ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, I'VE, I'VE OBVIOUSLY HAD THE HAVE SOMEHOW I BECAME THE VETERAN IN THIS GROUP, EVEN THOUGH I FEEL LIKE I'M STILL FAIRLY NEW AT IT.
UM, BUT LIKE I SAID, I'M NOT EVEN SURE, I'M NOT EVEN SURE THAT DOUG STANLEY PRESENTED TO US BEFORE THE, BEFORE COVID HIT.
BUT I DO REMEMBER, UM, TOWN MANAGER, TRICH, I REMEMBER HIM PRESENTING AT LEAST ONCE.
AND THEN, LIKE I SAID, COVID SHUT DOWN.
I THINK THE WAY IT USED TO BE, JOE, JOE IS JUST SAID, SO EVERY QUARTER JOE WOULD GO TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS MEETING STAND UP, BASICALLY GIVE LIKE HIGHLIGHTS OF, THIS IS GOING ON, THIS IS GOING ON, THIS IS GOING ON.
IT MIGHT BE THREE ITEMS, MIGHT BE FOUR, MIGHT BE FAIRLY, JUST LITERALLY LIKE, THIS IS WHAT'S GOING ON.
AND THEN THE SAME VICE VERSA AT A TOWN COUNCIL MEETING, THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR WOULD COME, UM, AND LIKE YOU SAID, MAYBE A LITTLE Q AND A, MAYBE NOT.
I THINK IT WAS PROBABLY THE, THE, I THINK PROBABLY THE, UM, OVERALL PURPOSE TOO WAS TO BE LIKE SHARING INFORMATION.
AND TO BE, QUITE FRANKLY, WITH YOU, COVID DEFINITELY THREW SOME KING SENATE.
WELL, WE'RE YEARS PAST THAT NOW.
WHICH IS WHAT I'M GETTING READY TO
[01:10:01]
SAY IS, SO AT FIRST IT WAS C AND THEN I THINK IT BECAME OTHER, I THINK THERE, THERE WAS PROBABLY OTHER SITUATIONS AND OBVIOUSLY NOT WHEN JOE WAS HERE, THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEAN.BUT IT BECAME MAYBE A SITUATION WHERE, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE, THERE BECAME SOME, UM, SOME TOUGHER RELATIONSHIPS TO BE WORKING THROUGH MM-HMM.
AND SO, WHICH IS PROBABLY WHAT SENT THE MESSAGE TO THE COMMUNITY, OH, THEY'RE NOT WORKING TOGETHER WHEN REALLY I THINK THERE WERE A LOT OF US BEHIND THE SCENES THAT WERE TRYING TO WORK TOGETHER.
UM, SO I THINK THAT'S, YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE JUST IMAGE, IT MAY BE JUST ABOUT AN IMAGE, BUT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT I DO THINK IS BENEFICIAL TO IT.
I THINK WRITTEN WOULD BE FINE TOO.
I'M JUST TRYING TO SAY, IF YOU GET AN EMAIL AND YOU READ IT, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT JOHN SMITH THAT LIVES UP ON LYNDON STREET KNOWS WHAT IT IS UNLESS IT'S BEING ALSO PRESENTED AT A MEETING.
I MEAN, WE CAN SHARE THE EMAIL, WE CAN SHARE THE WRITTEN REPORT.
BUT THAT'S, THAT, THAT WAS, I THINK, THE PURPOSE OF IT.
UM, AND LIKE I SAID, LIKE JOE SAID, I'M, I'M, I KNOW THERE'S PROBABLY SOME INCONVENIENCE TOO, LIKE HE SAID THEN, THEN THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATORS GOT IT ALSO FOUR TIMES A YEAR COME TO ONE OF OUR MEETINGS.
BUT THEY WOULD GENERALLY COME IN, SAY IT AND LEAVE.
IT WASN'T LIKE THEY HAD TO BE THERE THE WHOLE TIME.
AND I THINK, I THINK TINA WASN'T USUALLY EARLIER IN THE AGENDA, LIKE AT THE BEGINNING.
SO ANYWAY, BUT I'M, I'M, I'M GOOD WITH WHATEVER COUNCIL WANTS TO DO.
BUT, BUT WE HAVE TO TAKE THIS BACK TO THE LIAISON.
MAY, MAY I ASK, UH, UH, JOE, UH, HOW LONG WAS YOUR ORAL REPORT? I MEAN, IN GENERAL? IN GENERAL.
YOU KNOW, I GAVE 'EM A WRITTEN REPORT.
IF THEY HAD ANY QUESTIONS PERTAINED TO ANYTHING CRITICAL AT THAT POINT, IT REALLY, YEAH, IT, IT WASN'T THAT LONG OF, OF JOE, DID YOU EVER FEEL PUT ON, I'M, I'M BEING REALLY HONEST HERE.
I COULD HAVE ASKED YOU THIS BEHIND THE SCENES, BUT I WANNA ASK YOU PUBLICLY, DID YOU EVER FEEL PUT ON THE SPOT? DID YOU EVER GET IN A POSITION WHERE SOMEBODY ASKED YOU A QUESTION AND YOU WERE LIKE, WELL, I'M I NOT IN MY CAREER? THAT'S GOOD.
IT WAS ALWAYS A, A GOOD Q AND A BACK AND FORTH.
UM, NEVER, NEVER FELT THAT WAY.
I'VE BEEN THINKING WHEN YOU'RE ALREADY DOING A WEEKLY REPORT TO US, RIGHT? YEAH.
YOU'VE ALREADY GOT IT, THE TEMPLATE.
SO YOU, YOU'VE ALREADY GOT THE TRANSPARENCY TO THE PUBLIC.
YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO, I WOULD LIKE TO CON CONTINUE THIS ORAL AND WRITTEN.
I'LL REJUVENATE ORAL AND WRITTEN IF IT ONLY, IF IT'S ONLY FIVE MINUTES, I MEAN, UH, UH, YOU KNOW.
TO YOUR POINT ABOUT YEAH, THE GUY ON LEMON STREET.
YO, I, I'M JUST MAKING THAT UP.
I'M JUST SAYING THAT, LIKE I SAID, I FEEL I'M, I'M BEING REALLY HONEST THOUGH, LIKE AS A TOWN CITIZEN, I REALLY PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT GOES ON IN THE COUNTY, BECAUSE I KNOW I'M ALSO A COUNTY CITIZEN.
I DON'T KNOW THAT EVERY COUNTY CITIZEN, BUT YOU MADE A GOOD POINT.
IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IF THEY'RE, IF YOU'RE BUSINESS OWNERS AND THEY LIVE IN THE COUNTY, THEN KNOWING WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE TOWN IS, NO, I THINK WRITTEN RULES GREAT.
I JUST MEANT WRITTEN ONE MONTH PRIOR TO, THAT'S WHAT'S HIGHLIGHTED IN OUR AGENDA PACKET.
AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE KEY POINT TO POINT OUT, BECAUSE THEN WHEN WE GO INTO THE LIAISON COMMITTEE MEETING, THE COUNTY KNOWS THAT THE TOWN'S WORKING ON THE TOWN KNOWS THAT THE COUNTY'S WORKING ON VICE VERSA.
AND THEN THAT NIGHT, YOU KNOW, THERE CAN BE MORE OPEN DIALOGUE REGARDING THOSE UPCOMING DEVELOPMENTS OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
I JUST, I ALWAYS WANT WRITTEN BECAUSE OF MEMORY, YOU KNOW, AND ALSO ACCURACY.
SO, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY'S SAYING SOMETHING IN A MEETING.
UM, I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE, MORE OPEN TO INTERPRETATION AND WRITING AFTERWARDS THAN HAVING IT IN WRITING.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS? UH, I'M NOT SURE.
I, I'M NOT SURE I GOT A CONSENSUS OR NOT, BUT I JUST, SO, UM, SO YOU'D LIKE TO SEE ORAL UNWRITTEN? YES.
YOU DON'T CARE? I, I WANT WRITTEN, DEFINITELY WRITTEN AND AND WRITTEN WOULD BE DIFFERENT.
'CAUSE IT RIGHT NOW SAYS ORAL.
SO ORAL WRITTEN, YES, JOSH WRITTEN ORAL.
AT LEAST ONE WRITTEN FOR SURE.
I DEFINITELY WANT ORAL AND WRITTEN, OF COURSE.
SO JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT HERE.
UM, IF WE'RE GONNA PROVIDE A WRITTEN THE MONTH BEFORE THE LIAISON, I MEAN, WE COULD TECHNICALLY MEANING, AND, AND THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR COULD PROVIDE A REPORT AT THE LIAISON MEETING AS THAT TYPE OF PLATFORM INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY DOING IT AT ANOTHER, UM, MEETING.
I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE IF THE COUNTY'S UH, PLACE, THAT'S GOOD QUESTION.
I MEAN, BECAUSE HONESTLY, I MEAN, THERE WAS NOT TELEVISED.
THIS ONE WAS THOUGH, RIGHT? YEAH.
BUT IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY THAT WE COULD PROVIDE
[01:15:01]
A FIVE MINUTE, UH, UPDATE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DELAY ZONE MEETING INSTEAD OF ACTUALLY TAGGING IT ONTO ANOTHER BUSINESS MEETING.AND IT, AND, AND BOTH OF THOSE BOARDS WOULD'VE ALREADY GOTTEN THE WRITTEN THE MONTH BEFORE.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE HEARING IT FOR THE FIRST TIME AT THE LIAISON MEETING.
HOW DO Y'ALL FEEL ABOUT THAT? AGAIN, ALL OF THIS IS, WE, ALL RIGHT, SO LET ME JUST SAY THIS.
WE DO NOT HAVE A LIAISON MEETING AGAIN UNTIL OCTOBER.
SO EVEN IF WE BRING THIS UP AGAIN ON A WORK SESSION IN SEPTEMBER, WE JUST NEED TO BE ABLE TO, THE NEXT TIME WE GO TO THE LIAISON MEETING IN OCTOBER, WELL ACTUALLY A WEEK BEFORE, WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO SAY TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR OUR, UM, CHANGES TO THE LIAISON, UH, WHATEVER COMMITTEE MEETING POLICY.
SO IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, HOW ABOUT Y'ALL THINK ABOUT IT, SIT ON IT AND I'LL BRING THIS BACK LATER AND IT'LL GIVE EVERYBODY A CHANCE TO, IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT? SO AT LEAST THEY, AT LEAST WE KNOW WHAT IT IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MOVING FORWARD.
'CAUSE WE COULD SIT HERE AND TALK ABOUT THIS ALL NIGHT AND MOVING FORWARD.
ITEM FIVE B, THE DEDICATION, NAMING OF TOWN BRIDGES.
UM, AS YOU KNOW THAT, UM, VICE MAYOR AK ASKED FOR THIS ITEM TO BE ON THE AGENDA.
SO WAYNE, DO YOU WANNA TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT THIS? SURE.
UM, ONE OF 'EM, I'VE GOT HIS SISTER SITTING RIGHT BACK HERE, AND HIS BROTHER-IN-LAW, UH, THIS MAN WILL BE GONE 40 YEARS AT 20TH OF NEXT MONTH.
THE TOWN HASN'T DONE ANYTHING TO SAY THANK YOU OR WHATEVER.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I, I DRIVE ALL OVER THE STATE.
YOU GO THROUGH IN A SMALL TOWN, YOU GO THROUGH ON THE INTERSTATE AND YOU SEE THIS BRIDGE IS IN MEMORY OF, WELL, HARRY LEE HENDERSON DOWN HERE, SHE VILLE SHORES ROAD.
UM, AND CHERYL, I WANTED TO SEE THANK YOU'ALL FOR COMING TONIGHT.
UM, DENNIS WAS AMBUSHED, UM, WHEN HE CAME OUT OUT OF HIS APARTMENT, UH, AT THE CORNER OF VILLA AND SIXTH STREET ON HIS WAY TO GO, GO TO COURT, CORRECT? WELL, YEAH.
HE HAD COURT THAT DAY THOUGH, I THINK IS WHAT HE, I'M NOT SURE I'M, I CAN'T REMEMBER BACK THEN.
BUT, UM, WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING TO RECOGNIZE A MAN THAT SACRIFICED HIS LIFE TO THIS TOWN.
AND WE HAVE, THE SECOND ONE WAS LIEUTENANT PAT FARRELL.
UH, PAT WAS IN 1991, YOU SAID TO HIM IN 1991, RIGHT? YEAH, JULY 24TH.
UM, PAT WASN'T, WELL, HE WAS ATTACKED, BUT HE WAS ATTACKED BY SOMEONE AND HE, UH, HE GOT BIT AND HE CONTRACTED HEPATITIS AND THE ORGAN TRANSPLANTS DIDN'T WORK AND HE LOST HIS LIFE WITH HIS TOWN.
I THINK THE LEAST WE CAN DO IS PUT SOME SIGNS UP, YOU KNOW, UH, MY FEELING IS I'D LIKE TO DO THE, THE, THE COMMERCE AVENUE BRIDGE RIGHT THERE NEXT TO NOT AT, NOT AT, UH, WATER STREET ADVANCED ADVANCED.
I COULDN'T THINK OF THE NAME OF IT.
UH, AND THEN ONE FOR, UH, FOR LIEUTENANT FARRELL, EITHER MAIN STREET, STONEWALL DRIVE, WHEREVER, YOU KNOW, TO RECOGNIZE THESE GUYS THAT HAVE, THEY LOSE, I MEAN, THEY, THEY DID THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS TOWN.
UM, AND THE COST FOR US TO DO IT.
WAS $300 FOR, FOR EACH ONE OF THESE OFFICERS.
UH, AND THAT'S PUTTING THE SIGN UP.
I'VE BEEN IN TALKING TO JOE ABOUT IT.
UH, WE WOULD HAVE SOME KIND OF A DEDICATION CEREMONY FOR IT, IF WE CAN GET THIS THROUGH AT OUR NEXT MEETING ON THE 28TH.
UM, I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE, HAVE IT DONE IN SEPTEMBER OF SEPTEMBER 20TH, 1983 IS WHEN DENNIS WAS KILLED IN THE LINE OF DUTY.
UM, YEAH, IT'S NEAR AND DEAR TO ME.
I, I WENT THROUGH THE POLICE ACADEMY WITH HIM.
UM, HE HAS, HIS SISTER OVER HERE WAS A NURSE.
HE HAS HIS YOUNGEST BROTHER RETIRED OUTTA LOUDOUN COUNTY WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT.
HIS NEXT TO HIM, I GUESS TIMMY, UH, WHO WAS ANOTHER BROTHER, RETIRED OUT OF FREDERICK COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.
SO THIS WHOLE FAMILY HAS DEDICATED THEIR LIFE, UH, AND WENT ON, DID THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE.
AND I THINK WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE HIM FOR THAT.
SO, COUNSEL, VICE MAYOR
UH, TALKED TO, UM, MR. WALTZ AND, AND MYSELF ABOUT IT.
SO WHAT WE WOULD BE, WHAT THE DISCUSSION FOR TONIGHT
[01:20:01]
IS, IS NOT NECESSARILY PICKING A BRIDGE WITH A PERSON'S NAME, SO TO SPEAK, BUT I WANTED YOU TO KNOW THE PASSION AND WHERE IT WAS COMING FROM.SO, UM, THE, WHAT WE, WHAT THIS, UH, GROUP NEEDS TO DECIDE IS, UM, YOU KNOW, HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT, UM, DEDICATING AND NAMING TOWN BRIDGES IN ORDER OF COMMUNITY, IN, IN HONOR OF COMMUNITY LEADERS.
I WANNA BE CLEAR, WE DON'T HAVE TO, THERE'S A LIST OF 10 BRIDGES HERE.
WE DON'T HAVE TO COME UP WITH 10 PEOPLE.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? UM, THIS IS MORE, UH, YOU KNOW, ALMOST, I WON'T SAY DETERMINING THE POLICY, BUT JUST LIKE NAMING SCHOOLS.
LIKE THERE, THERE HAD TO BE LIKE A POLICY THAT SAID, YOU KNOW, UM, LIKE WHO MIGHT, WHO MIGHT BE HONORED OR IN MEMORY OR THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, SO WHAT WE NEED TO DECIDE IS, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO DO IN THE TOWN LIMITS TO, UM, DEDICATE AND NAME BRIDGES AND HONOR COMMUNITY LEADERS? AND IF WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT, THEN OBVIOUSLY THEN, THEN WE WOULD MOVE FORWARD WITH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE PROPOSAL OF PEOPLE.
AND, AND, AND VICE MAYOR SILA HAS OBVIOUSLY NAMED TOO, UM, DEFINITELY DESERVING, UH, PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY THAT HAVE SERVED AND SACRIFICED FOR OUR COMMUNITY.
SO, HOW DID I, UH, DO Y'ALL HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT DEDICATING AND NAMING THE BRIDGES? I, I FEEL LIKE I'M SAYING LIKE, YOU KNOW, ASKING YOU ALL SOMETHING THAT I THINK I ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO, BUT I, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR.
SO HAVE THOUGHTS ON THAT COUNCIL? ROGER GOOD WITH THAT.
TALKED TO WAYNE, I DON'T KNOW, A COUPLE, FEW MONTHS AGO, THREE OR FOUR MONTHS AGO, UH, WHENEVER IT WAS WE WERE SETTING UP AT, YEAH, WE WERE SETTING UP AND TALKING.
I I MEAN, IT'S AN EMOTIONAL, UH, IT'S VERY POWERFUL.
UM, AND I AM ABSOLUTELY IN FAVOR, IN FAVOR OF IT, MADAM MAYOR.
WHAT I WANT TO, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS WE HAVE A COUNCIL MEMBER WHO'S BRINGING FORWARD TWO VERY, VERY, UM, AH, WHAT'S THE WORD I'M LOOKING FOR? UM, FOLKS THAT NEED TO BE RECOGNIZED.
THEY GAVE THEIR LIVES FOR THIS COMMUNITY.
UM, AND WHEN WE DO THIS, I THINK LOOKING AT THIS LIST, AND I'M SURPRISED TO SEE THIS LIST, THAT THEY'RE, WE HAD 10 BRIDGES.
THAT THERE'S 10 BRIDGES, RIGHT? UM, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? I GUESS THAT'S, YEAH, THAT'S THE CONSIDERATION.
HOW DO WE THEN, BECAUSE OTHERS ARE GOING TO SAY, HEY, HOW ABOUT, HOW ABOUT AND HOW DO WE KIND OF HANDLE THAT? I THINK THESE TWO CHOICES ARE ADMIRABLE CHOICES.
I THINK THEY'RE OUTSTANDING CHOICES, WELL DESERVED CHOICES.
UM, AND I'M IN FAVOR OF IT, AND I JUST WANNA GIVE A ALL A HEADS UP WHAT'S NEXT RIGHT.
AND THAT, THAT'S WHY I WAS SAYING THAT YOU'RE RIGHT.
THIS ISN'T A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE TO SAY, WE ARE GOING TO NAME EVERY ONE OF THESE BRIDGES.
IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT WE LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, OKAY, THESE ARE, THESE ARE TWO PEOPLE THAT, THAT WE FEEL SACRIFICED FOR OUR COMMUNITY AND WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT.
BUT IT MAY BE THAT WE DON'T NAME ANY OTHER BRIDGE, AND UNLESS, YOU KNOW, WE, THERE'S ANOTHER PERSON THAT MOVES FORWARD IN OUR MINDS IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT WE FEEL LIKE SERVED THE COMMUNITY.
I'M NOT SAYING WE HAVE TO NAME ALL EIGHT.
I JUST REALLY, WHAT WE NEED TO DECIDE IS DO WE WANNA DO IT? AND THEN IF WE WANNA DO IT, I'M THINKING THAT STAFF COULD POSSIBLY, UM, COME UP WITH LIKE, NOT PARAMETERS, BUT JUST LIKE, LIKE A STATEMENT OF THIS.
SO LIKE YOU SAID, AND THAT WE DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, 25 PEOPLE TOMORROW CALL US EACH AND SAY, I THINK MY, YEAH.
YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS, THIS PERSON, YOU KNOW, UM, BECAUSE WE WOULDN'T HAVE ENOUGH BRIDGES, YOU KNOW, TO NAME ALL THE WONDERFUL PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY.
BUT I THINK IN THIS SITUATION, THESE WERE EMPLOYEES OF THE TOWN WHO SACRIFICED, UM, THEIR LIVES AND SERVED OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR CITIZENS.
SO I THINK THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT.
AND I DON'T KNOW, JOE, THAT MIGHT BE, THAT MIGHT BE WHAT STAFF RECOMMENDS, IS THAT IT'S THAT IT, THAT MOVING FORWARD, IT'S SOMEBODY THAT WAS AN EMPLOYEE OR THAT SACRIFICED, OR, YOU KNOW.
ANYWAY, JOE, DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS? UH, I DO KNOW, I, I DID FIND A COUPLE OUT THERE ON THE INTERNET BRIDGE DEDICATION GUIDELINES.
AND, UH, THERE ARE A FEW, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THINGS ABOUT HOW LONG A SERVICE AND, UH, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO, TO GET SOMETHING TOGETHER FOR A POLICY, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANNA DO.
WE FIGURED EITHER YOU PUT A POLICY OR, OR, OR AN A LA CARTE.
[01:25:01]
WE GET A CONSENSUS ON THAT? BECAUSE WE JUST RENAMED GEORGE BANKS BOULEVARD.AND NOBODY ELSE CAME FORWARD AND WANTED A NAME, A ROAD NAMED AFTER THEM.
AND EVERYBODY KNEW THAT WAS VERY WELL DESERVED AND AGREED UPON.
WHERE, WHERE DID THE RECOMMENDATION COME FROM? DO WE KNOW? I'M SORRY.
WELL, I'M NOT PETITION, WELL, THERE WAS A PETITION, BUT FROM COUNCIL MEMBERS.
BUT IN ALL HONESTY, UM, IN ALL HONESTY, I HAD, I HAD THE BRIDGE OVER SHENANDOAH.
THAT WAS, HOW DID THAT COME FROM? THAT WAS, UM, THERE WAS A PARTICULAR GROUP MM-HMM.
THERE WAS A GROUP THAT ASKED FOR THAT.
BUT, BUT, BUT GEORGE, GEORGE, THE GEORGE BANKS BOULEVARD, ACTUALLY EVEN WITHIN 24 HOURS OF HIM PASSING, I HAD A CITIZEN THAT REACHED OUT TO ME AND SAID, ISN'T THERE SOMETHING YOU ALL CAN DO? AND THEN BEFORE COUNSEL REALLY EVEN HAD, UM, MR. GILLESPIE YEAH, I WAS GONNA SAY THERE WERE CITIZENS THAT, THAT WANTED TO HONOR HIM.
I, I MEAN, I, THE ONLY REASON WHY I SAID NOT A POLICY, THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEAN, I'M JUST SAYING I KNOW THIS HAPPENED WITH THE SCHOOL SITUATION, IS THAT, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY CHOKED, LIKE WITH THE SCHOOLS, THEY ACTUALLY CHOSE PAST EDUCATORS.
AND THAT'S WHY MANY, EVERY SCHOOL IN, IN WARREN COUNTY THAT HAS A NAME, YOU KNOW, LESLIE FOX, KAISER HILDE, J BARBER, ELIS MORRISON, RUSTY JEFFERIES, THEY WERE ALL FORMER EDUCATORS.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THAT OR NOT.
AND SO THEN WHEN PEOPLE HAVE COME ALONG THE WAY AND SAID, WELL, I THINK YOU OUGHT TO NAME THIS SCHOOL AFTER THIS PERSON, THEY HAD TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS IT, YOU KNOW, WHAT CRITERIA WHAT YEAH.
WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE CRITERIA FOR YEAH.
SO THAT, THAT'S THE ONLY REASON WHY I SAID, LIKE YOU SAID, WE MIGHT SAY THESE TWO PEOPLE, THEY'RE NEAR AND DEAR TO US.
BUT WHAT HAPPENS FIVE YEARS FROM NOW, IF SOMEBODY SAYS, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU OUGHT TO NAME IT AFTER THIS PERSON WHO, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU SAID ABOUT MR. BANKS, MR. BANKS SERVED, IT WAS COUNCIL DISCRETION AND IT WAS GREENER.
AND, UM, AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT WHEN I WAS CAMPAIGNING MY FIRST GO ROUND, AFTER I'D ALREADY BEEN APPOINTED, I ACTUALLY HAD A COUPLE PEOPLE WHEN I WAS KNOCKING DOOR TO DOOR, I, I CAN REMEMBER, I COULD TELL YOU EXACTLY WHERE THE MAN LIVED THAT SAID TO ME, 'CAUSE I WOULD ALWAYS SAY TO PEOPLE, IS THERE ANYTHING ON YOUR MIND? IS THERE ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DIDN'T REALLY SAY A LOT, BUT I'LL NEVER FORGET, THIS GENTLEMAN HAD BOOTS ON, HE HAD JUST COME HOME FROM WORK.
HE SAID, I, I WANNA KNOW WHY THEY'VE NEVER NAMED SOMETHING FOR DENNIS MELEY AND PAT FERRELL.
AND THEY WERE LIKE, I THINK YOU OUGHT TO THE, THE STREET THAT THE NEW POLICE DEPARTMENT.
'CAUSE AT THAT POINT IT WAS NEW, I THINK THAT NAME, THAT THAT STREET OUGHT TO BE NAMED FOR THEM.
BUT WHEN I BROUGHT THAT UP, THE THING IS, THE PROBLEM IS LIKE MONROE AVENUE WAS ALREADY EXISTED MM-HMM.
'CAUSE EVERY PERSON WHO LIVED ON THAT STREET OR THE BUSINESSES NAMES YEAH.
WE, SO WE LEARNED ABOUT HOW MUCH HAD TO PAY FOR YOUR DRIVER'S LICENSE UPDATING YOUR BANK.
WHEN WE, WHEN WE CHANGED THAT STREET NAME THERE, IT WAS, UM, A CITIZEN HAD TO PAY MONEY OUTTA THEIR OWN POCKET TO CHANGE LEGAL DOCUMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THIS.
THIS WOULD BE A WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY.
AND IT DOESN'T REALLY INCONVENIENCE.
ANY CITIZENS, BUT IT HONORS THEM.
UH, BUT CAN I JUST, CAN, IS THERE ANYBODY THAT HAS AN ISSUE WITH US DOING THIS? NOT TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, JUST MOVING FORWARD, OR, I'M LOOKING FOR CONSENSUS, BUT I'M ALSO LIKE, I DON'T WANNA GO AROUND THE TABLE IF EVERYBODY'S OKAY WITH IT.
UM, I'M TOTALLY COOL WITH HONORING THESE TWO PEOPLE.
ONE IS, UM, WE NEED A PROCESS AND WE NEED IT NAILED DOWN BETTER THAN COMMUNITY LEADERS.
BECAUSE THERE ARE GROUPS WHO THINK THAT THEY HAVE COMMUNITY LEADERS THAT I LIKE, HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PUTTING THAT PERSON, UM, IT, YOU KNOW, NAMING SOMETHING AFTER.
AND THE OTHER ISSUE IS, UM, UM, WE WANNA BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT PUBLIC HEARINGS AROUND THIS.
BECAUSE WHAT I WOULD HATE TO SEE, BECAUSE ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE TALKING LAW ENFORCEMENT, THERE COULD BE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT, YOU KNOW, HATE THOSE GUYS, RIGHT? AND THEN YOU'D GET A SITUATION WHERE YOU'D HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING AND YOU'D HAVE TO BE DIS, YOU KNOW, YOU'D HAVE PEOPLE UP THERE DISPARAGING SOMEBODY WHO MAYBE, YOU KNOW, HAS PASSED ON.
SO I THINK I WANNA, IF IT WAS AGAINST THE RULES OF OUR DECORUM, I WANNA AVOID THAT WHOLE SCENARIO.
SO I THINK I WANNA PROCESS WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE REALLY DEFINE, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GONNA DO IT FOR OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT OR, YOU KNOW, SOME OTHER SORT OF, UM, EMPLOYEE OF TOWN OR SOMETHING, WHATEVER.
THAT WAS THE, THAT WAS MY OTHER THOUGHT
[01:30:01]
IS EVEN IF THE, EVEN IF THE CRITERIA WAS, UM, EMPLOYEE, YOU KNOW, AND TOWN EMPLOYEE, I MEAN, I, I'M OPEN TO WHATEVER YOU GUYS WANNA DO.AND I THINK WE DO THE YEARS OF SERVICE, BECAUSE IT COULD BE A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THAT'S UNFORTUNATELY STEPS OUT AND IT'S LIKE HIS FIRST YEAR OR SECOND YEAR OR SOMETHING.
AND THAT DID HAPPEN WITH GUYS LIKE WAYNE, I MEAN, FIRE GUYS, RIGHT? I MEAN, FIRE GUYS LOSE THEIR LIVES EVERY DAY.
RIGHT? SO MAYBE WE SAY FIRST, FIRST RESPONDERS, MAYBE THAT'S OUR, OUR NICHE FIRST RESPONDERS.
IT COVERS LAW ENFORCEMENT AND, AND, AND THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
THAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID DID HAPPEN.
NOT WITH THE TOWN, BUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPENED WHEN THEY WERE, WELL, YOU COULD, YOU'VE SEEN IT ON THE NEWS AND OTHER PLACES WHERE SOMEBODY WANTED TO NAME A BUILDING AFTER SOMEBODY, AND THEN EVERYBODY COMES OUT SAYING, WOW, YOU KNOW, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
SO I THINK I LIKE THE IDEA OF PUBLIC SAFETY.
HOW DO YOU ALL FEEL ABOUT THAT? IT NOT, I LIKE IT.
IS IT PUBLIC SAFETY? A GOOD EXAMPLE THAT YOU JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T PUT YEARS OF SERVICE ON IT.
'CAUSE THERE WAS A, A, A FEMALE, AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT TO BE SPARKED, BUT THERE WAS A FEMALE POLICE OFFICER NOT TOO FAR FROM HERE.
HOW MANY YEARS AGO? FIVE YEARS AGO.
SHOT AND KILLED HER FIRST DAY ON A JOB.
SO, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT THAT TOO.
WELL, AND I THINK WE, I THINK WE ALSO SAY THAT WE ARE HONORING THIS PERSON FOR THEIR COMMITMENT TO PUBLIC SAFETY AND LEAVE IT AT THAT.
BECAUSE JUST IN THINKING, I DON'T KNOW WHO IN THE FUTURE WE MIGHT NOMINATE OR WHATEVER, BUT, YOU KNOW, JUST WATCHING WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE, AND EVERYTHING ELSE, EVERYBODY LIKES TO RETHINK THINGS YEARS LATER, YOU KNOW? AND, UM, WE WANNA JUST MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT ELSE HAPPENED.
THIS PERSON COMMITTED PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, WAS COMMITTED TO PUBLIC STATEMENT.
THE ONLY THING I WOULD ASK, AND I KNOW I'M MAYBE OVERSTEPPING MY BALANCE HERE WITH JOE, I DON'T KNOW IF, IF WE GET, IF WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, WHEN WE MAKE THE SIGNS, UH, RANK AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS A BIG DEAL FOR, FOR OFFICERS.
SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S SERGEANT DENNIS BENTLEY AND LIEUTENANT PAT.
THAT'S, THAT'S HOW THEY, THAT'S HOW THEY TYPICALLY, THAT'S, I KNOW SOME OF 'EM, I'VE SEEN POLICE ON THE INTERSTATE, IT'S SERGEANT OR COLONEL OR LIEUTENANT OR SOMETHING.
AND COUNCIL
AND A COUNCIL IS GOING TO APPROVE THESE TOO.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO ADD WHEN I WAS TRYING TO SPEAK EARLIER.
ANY COUNCIL MEMBER CAN BRING FORWARD CHANGING ANY ROAD NAME TO ANYTHING YOU WANT.
UM, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE TOO CONTROVERSIAL HERE.
I WAS HAVING A CONVERSATION ON MAIN STREET THE OTHER DAY, IF ANY OF YOU REMEMBER THE HEADLINES, FORMER COUNCILMAN SCOTT LLOYD WANTED TO CHANGE A ROAD TO TRUMP AVENUE.
BUT ANY OF US CAN BRING FORWARD A NAME CHANGE.
YOU KNOW, MY FAMILY WAS SERVING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AT THE TIME OF BOTH OF THOSE OFFICERS DEATHS.
AND, UM, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT WE ARE, PERHAPS PEOPLE WILL COME TO US, BUT WE CAN SET WHATEVER CRITERIA WE WANT HERE TONIGHT, AND THEN THE NEXT COUNCIL CAN CHANGE THAT.
SO I THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE OPEN TO WHATEVER, WHETHER IT'S LAW ENFORCEMENT, FIRE RESCUE, OR JUST COMMUNITY LEADERS, BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD TOWN MANAGERS, TOWN MAYORS THAT, YOU KNOW, DID AMAZING THINGS IN THIS COMMUNITY.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD RESTRICT IT.
AND IF WE DO, FUTURE COUNCILS HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THAT.
BUT I THINK IF WE, IF WE JUST START OUT WITH PUBLIC SAFETY, I MEAN, THAT'S THE ONLY ONES YOU REALLY SEE.
UM, JUST START OUT WITH THESE TWO FOR NOW THAT STARTING, I'M STARTING SOMEWHERE.
JOE, DO WE, LET'S START WITH GEORGE AND JOE OR JOE OR TINA OR WHOEVER.
UM, DO WE HAVE TO TAKE ACTION ON THIS? OR COULD WE JUST SAY THERE'S A CONSENSUS TONIGHT OF NOPE, I, I THINK A RESOLUTION.
WELL FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE TO DECIDE IF YOU WANT A POLICY.
IF YOU WANT A POLICY, WELL, POLICY WILL BE SKETCHED OUT.
IF YOU WANT TO DO WHAT I'M CALLING A LA CARTE, JUST A, A RESOLUTION, THIS BRIDGE, THIS PERSON, I'LL BE RIGHT THERE.
I THINK IF WE WANT TO HAVE THIS RIGHT THERE, I MEAN, IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, TOM IS OF THE ESSENCE BECAUSE WE'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO, AND I JUST WANNA SAY I WAS IN 10TH GRADE AND I REMEMBER THE DAY VERY WELL, SADLY.
UM, SO IF WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS CAN HAPPEN BEFORE SEPTEMBER 20TH, 20TH, UM, I THINK THAT A RESOLUTION MIGHT BE THE EASIEST WAY TO MAKE THIS GO FASTER.
AND THEN AFTER THAT, IF WE WANNA VISIT A POLICY, THEN WE GO WITH THAT.
IS THAT EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT? YEP.
SO THE RESOLUTION COULD BE ON THE AUGUST 28TH, AND THAT WOULD GIVE US TIME TO PASS
[01:35:01]
IT, ASSUMING, I'M NOT GONNA PREDICT, BUT I, I HOPE WE PASS IT THAT MORNING.SO WE, IF WE WOULD PASS IT AUGUST 28TH, AND THAT WOULD GIVE THEM, WOULD THAT GIVE THEM ENOUGH TIME TO HAVE A SIGN AND, AND THEN US TO HOLD A DEDICATION CEREMONY? YEAH.
THAT THAT'LL, WE NEED MAYBE ONE TO TWO WEEKS TO DO THE SIGN.
AND THEN IF WE GET OUT AHEAD OF IT, PUT OUT PUBLIC NOTICE OF THAT, WE COULD ACTUALLY DO THE DEDICATION ON THAT DAY.
I'D LIKE, WHICH IS A WEDNESDAY.
I THINK, UM, SO YEAH, THE FAMILY, IS THAT OKAY WITH YOU TO DO IT ON, ON, ON THE, ON THE 20TH? OKAY.
SO LET'S, SO, AND, AND EVEN IF WE DO THIS ONE FIRST, THEN WE, AND THEN WE, UM, HAVE A DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITY FOR LIEUTENANT FARRELLS.
THEN THAT WAY WE, SO WE CAN GET THAT FAMILY, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? WE WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE ON BOARD WITH THAT TOO.
UM, DO WE NEED TO KNOW RIGHT NOW FOR TINA'S PER UM, TINA'S KNOWLEDGE FOR THE WRITING, THE RESOLUTION, WE NEED TO KNOW WHICH, UM, SO WHICH BRIDGE ARE WE SUGGESTING? I WOULD LIKE THE, AND I KNOW I, I TOLD YOU I WOULDN'T DO THIS, BUT I WOULD LIKE COMMERCE AVENUE BRIDGE.
THE ONE THERE RIGHT NEXT, WHAT'D YOU JUST CALL IT? AUTO NO, ADVANCED.
DO YOU MIND IF I, DO YOU MIND IF I, I DON'T WANNA PUT CHERYL ON THE SPOT.
WE'RE THINKING THAT BRIDGE, I, YOU'RE THE ONLY FAMILY MEMBER HERE, AND I FEEL LIKE YOU DESERVE TO INPUT.
THAT'S THE ONE WE HAVE DISCUSS, DISCUSSED.
THAT WAS STEVE AND I KIND OF TALKED THROUGH CHERYL ABOUT THAT.
THAT WOULD BE, AND I TALKED TO MY YOUNGEST BROTHER, TODD THIS MORNING, AND HE WAS FINE WITH THAT AS WELL.
AND I TALKED TO TODD TODAY ALSO.
SO TINA, THAT, OR I SAY, I KEEP SAYING TINA.
'CAUSE I'M ASSUMING YOU, YOU GENERALLY, YOU AND GEORGE DRAFT THOSE RESOLUTIONS FOR US.
DO YOU HAVE AS MUCH INFORMATION AS YOU NEED? WELL, FOR LIEUTENANT FARRELL, WHICH ONE THAT I SAID, DO YOU MIND IF WE JUST GO WITH THIS ONE THIS TIME AND THEN DO ONE AND THEN, AND THEN ONLY BECAUSE I WANT TO MOVE THIS ONE FORWARD ENOUGH SO THAT SEPTEMBER 20TH HAPPENS TIME TO, AND GET WITH THE CHIEFS, SEE IF WE CAN FIND SOME OF HIS FAMILY.
I DON'T KNOW IF HIS WIFE WAS STILL HERE.
DAUGHTER THEY CAME TO, THEY CAME TO THE MEMORIAL SERVICE.
THEY DID COME TO THE MEMORIAL SERVICE BECAUSE THAT WAS, DID YOU COME ME TALK TO THEM? YEAH.
YEAH, I, I'D BE GREAT WITH THAT.
THEN WE'LL DO THIS OTHER ONE LATER ON.
AND SINCE WE'RE NOT DRAFTING A POLICY AT THE MOMENT, I'M JUST GONNA THROW IT OUT THERE.
'CAUSE I KNOW WAYNE'S NOT GOING TO.
BUT EAST EIGHTH STREET WOULD BE, UM, A FANTASTIC OPPORTUNITY TO HONOR WAYNE'S FATHER WHO WAS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND OFTEN VOLUNTEERED ON EIGHTH STREET AT THE COMMUNITY CENTER.
I HAVE COACH'S TALKING ABOUT IT.
UM, BUT WAYNE'S FATHER OFTEN, UM, HELPED WITH THE YOUTH, KEEPING THEM OUT OF THE PARK AND CAUSING MISCHIEF IN HIS TIME OFF AFTER HOURS.
AND HE DEDICATED HIS ENTIRE LIFE TO SERVICE TO THIS COMMUNITY AS WELL.
UM, AND WE'RE GETTING A BEAUTIFUL NEW EIGHTH STREET BRIDGE.
SO, UH, JUST TO KEEP THAT ON THE HORIZON, IF, IF YOU AND COUNSEL AND STAFF WOULDN'T MIND, UM, HOLDING BACK SPACE IN EIGHTH STREET TO DISCUSS, DEDICATING THAT TO WAYNE'S FATHER WHO DEDICATED HIS LIFE AT THAT BRIDGE AND IN THIS COMMUNITY.
IT'D BE WEIRD FOR YOU TO BRING IT UP, BUT IT DOESN'T, IT DOESN'T GO UNNOTICED.
AND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE TO REMEMBER AND HAD FAMILY THAT WORKED WITH ALL OF YOU IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND MR. LEY, WE LOVE AND APPRECIATE ALL OF Y'ALL.
IT'S ALWAYS NICE WHEN WE CAN DO SOMETHING, SOMETHING THAT'S LIGHTHEARTED HELPFUL AND POSITIVE AND, AND I'M SO GRATEFUL.
NOW WE'RE GONNA JUMP INTO FAST C SO, SO DISCUSSION ON CHAPTER 1, 75, SHORT TERM RENTALS.
UM, BRUCE, UH, REQUESTED THE SIGN TO BE ADDED TO THE AGENDA.
HOWEVER, I WILL SAY THIS, WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR A WHILE.
'CAUSE I KNOW LAUREN, THE LAST TIME I TALKED TO HER, I WAS LIKE, WE GOTTA BRING THIS BACK.
'CAUSE I SAID EARLIER, WE IN HISTORY, SO, SO WHEN SHORT TERM RENTALS CAME UP ON A PREVIOUS COUNCIL, UM, AND IT WAS REALLY A PREVIOUS COUNCIL, AND THEN IT CONTINUED ON TO THE NEXT COUNCIL, UM, THERE WAS TALK ABOUT THIS.
AMBER MADE A GOOD POINT, OR, OR AMBER BROUGHT UP THE POINT THAT THERE WERE ALREADY SHORT TERM RENTALS GOING ON IN THIS COMMUNITY, BUT THERE WERE, THERE WERE NO FINANCIAL BENEFIT TO THE TOWN.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS, THIS WAS COMING UP.
AND SO, I MEAN TO, I CAN'T EVEN TELL YOU, BUT IT WENT ON MONTHS, DIDN'T IT? TINA MONTHS, WE BRING IT UP AT A WORK SESSION, WE TALK AND, YOU KNOW, HAGGLE A LITTLE BIT, TALK ABOUT, THEN IT WOULD COME UP AGAIN AND COME UP AGAIN AND COME UP AGAIN.
AND THEN IT GOT TO THE POINT WHERE COUNSEL SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT? WE MAY NOT HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS YET, BUT WE WANNA MOVE FORWARD.
AND SO WE'RE GONNA PUT IT TOGETHER AND IT COULD BE A FLUID DOCUMENT IF WE NEEDED IT TO BE, LET'S
[01:40:01]
GET IT OFF THE GROUND AND, AND, YOU KNOW, START, YOU KNOW, UH, ALLOWING PEOPLE TO APPLY FOR IT.AND THEN IF THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG, WE'LL GO BACK TO IT.
AND, AND I CAN DISTINCT, I CAN REMEMBER THE NIGHT WE WERE SITTING THERE, 'CAUSE JOE MCFADDEN, I REMEMBER WE WERE ALL LIKE, OKAY, LET'S JUST MOVE FORWARD AND THEN IF WE NEED TO COME BACK AND VISIT IT.
AND SO I WOULD SAY THE ONE THING THAT CONTINUES TO COME UP OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS THE PARKING PIECE TO IT.
WHICH I WILL TELL YOU THE PARKING PIECE WAS, WAS ONE OF THE THINGS WE REALLY DISCUSSED HARDILY WHEN WE WERE DOING IT.
SO, UM, SO THE, UM, THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT TONIGHT IS STAFF'S GONNA BE PREPARED TO DISCUSS HOW MANY HAVE BEEN APPROVED VIOLATIONS, COMPLAINTS, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
AND JUST TO SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING WE WANT TO CHANGE ABOUT THAT CHAPTER IN OUR ORDINANCES.
DO WE WANNA ASK QUESTIONS? YOU, LAUREN, DO YOU WANNA JUST OFFER ANYTHING UP TO START OR DO YOU JUST WANT US TO, DO YOU WANNA JUST FEEL QUESTIONS? I MEAN, I CAN LET YOU KNOW.
WE'VE HAD, UM, WE'VE HAD 15 THAT COUNSEL'S APPROVED AND WE'VE GOT TWO IN THE WORK.
SO WE'VE HAD 17 APPLICATIONS TOTAL.
UM, WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY COMPLAINTS OR VIOLATIONS ON ANY OF THESE PROPERTIES SINCE, UM, IT'S STARTED.
SO, AND, BUT WE'RE ALSO NOT, LIKE, I DON'T HAVE THE STAFF CAPABILITY TO GO OUT AND LOOK FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS THAT MAY BE OPERATING THAT HAVEN'T BEEN APPROVED EITHER.
SO I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OPERATING THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT, BUT I'M, I'M NOT SEARCHING FOR 'EM.
UM, IF, IF SOMEBODY WERE TO INFORM, JUST I, THIS IS JUST OFF THE CUFF QUESTION 'CAUSE I DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT THIS QUESTION, BUT IF SOMEBODY WERE TO REPORT THAT THERE WAS A SHORT-TERM RENTAL GOING ON, YOU WOULD ISSUE A VIOLATION LETTER.
AND THEN WE WOULD ASK THEM TO GET A SPECIAL EXCEPTION OR SPECIAL USE PERMIT AND BRING 'EM INTO CONFORMANCE.
UM, SO WHAT IS COUNSEL? SO, UH, UM, COUNCILMAN RAPPAPORT IS THERE, I I KNOW YOU ASKED FOR IT TO BE ADDED TO THE AGENDA.
WHAT ARE SOME THOUGHTS THAT YOU WANTED TO WELL BRING TO COUNCIL'S ATTENTION? WELL, I, I'VE BEEN VOCAL ON THIS BEFORE.
UH, UH, THE FIRST LINE IN 1 75, 1 51 IS SHORT TERM RENTAL SHALL BE PERMITTED IN ALL ZONING DISTRICTS BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT AND SHALL ADD A MINIMUM MEET THE FOLLOWING REQUIREMENTS, WHICH IS LIKE A THROUGH N UH, THE, THE FACT WHAT, WHAT WHAT CAUGHT MY EYE IS, UM, THE, THE IMAGE OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS WILL CHANGE WITH SHORT TERM RENTALS.
AND I'M TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT THE FU FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORIES AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UH, NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL AND MEDIUM DENSITY, UM, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, MEDIUM DENSITY, UH, THESE ARE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE DEFINED, NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE MARLOW HEIGHTS, UM, UH, EAST 17TH, 18TH STREET, UH, THAT WAY, ROYAL VILLAGE.
UH, AND, UH, EVEN UP IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, VISCO CITY AREA, UH, I FEEL LIKE IT'S JUST, WE'RE TOO LOOSE WITH THIS.
AND I, I'D LIKE TO GET MORE DEFINITION WITH IT, UH, IN PARTICULAR TO PROTECT THESE, THESE NEIGHBORHOODS IN GENERAL.
UH, AND ALSO DEFINE, UH, THE TYPE OF, UM, HOUSING, I MEAN SHORT TERM RENTALS, UH, THAT WE MIGHT BE HAVING DOWN IN BUSINESS DISTRICTS AS WELL.
UM, YOU KNOW, FRONT ROYALS, THE, THE WAY THAT THE, THE FUTURE LAND USE IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF MIXED USE DEFINITIONS IN IT.
UM, AND, UH, I, UH, ONE OF THE OTHER ISSUES IS, UH, THE PROJECTED HOUSING DEMAND.
EVERY TIME THERE'S A SHORT TERM RENTAL AND A DWELLING, UH, GOES TO A SHORT TERM RENTAL, IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT AVAILABLE FOR SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO LIVE IN THE HOUSE LONG TERM OR PERMANENTLY.
[01:45:01]
AND WE, AND WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE PARKING SITUATIONS OBVIOUSLY, BUT UH, THE PROJECTIONS FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS, OR 17 YEARS FROM NOW IS, UM, WHAT IS IT? 45 HOMES PER YEAR IS WHAT OUR PROJECTIONS ARE.UH, WE JUST, UH, DENIED A POTENTIAL, UH, DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE OF ING UH, WELL INGRESS, EGRESS ISSUES.
UH, SO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE REALLY KIND OF STRONG OUT A LITTLE BIT WITH, WITH REGARD TO, UM, OPTIONS.
AND THAT, THAT'S WHAT MY CONCERN IS.
UH, I WANNA PROTECT, I, I WANT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO LIVE IN A, IN A HOME IN FRONT ROYAL AND NOT, UH, HAVE TO GO TO STRASSBURG OR WINCHESTER OR FOR THAT MATTER, OUT IN THE COUNTY.
UM, IT'S, IT'S FINE, BUT THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED RIGHT NOW IN LARGE DEVELOPMENTS, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND.
UM, IF YOU PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEWS, UH, UH, UM, ONES THAT HAVE WATER, BUT YEAH.
SO YEAH, BLUE RED SHADOW IS AN EXCEPTION, BUT, UH, THOSE ARE MY CONCERNS.
UM, I, I PULLED WINCHESTER FOR EXAMPLE.
UH, WHAT THEY DO IS SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE DO.
UH, UH, THEY HAVE SOMETHING CALLED HOMES SHARE.
UH, WHERE, WHERE BASICALLY YOU, YOU HAVE TO BE A RESIDENT, A RESIDENT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UH, AND, AND A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING OR SO OWNER OCCUPIED, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING'S OWNED? IT'S UNDER OCCUPIED.
AND THEN, AND THEN YOU CAN RENT OUT YOUR HOUSE IN A HOME SHARE SITUATION.
AND THEN THEY ALL, THEY ALSO, THEY HAVE, UH, SHORT TERM RENTALS AS WELL IN WHAT THEY CALL THEIR CENTRAL BUSINESS DI DISTRICT.
YOU KNOW, THAT THAT MAY BE DOWNTOWN FRONT ROYAL HERE, UH, COULD BE PROSPECT, UH, OUT BACK TOWARD SOUTH STREET.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN INTERESTING CONCEPT THAT THEY HAVE OVER THERE AND IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING FOR 'EM.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I I WOULD CHALLENGE, UH, I WOULD LIKE TO CHALLENGE STAFF TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND SEE IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UM, MIGHT WORK IN, UH, FARM OIL.
OTHERS WHO WANT TO SHARE THEIR THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 1 75 IN REGARDS TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS, OR, I'D LIKE FIRST TAKE A LOOK AT THAT WINCHESTER.
UM, WHEN YOU SAY THE OWNER OCCUPIED, ARE, YOU MEAN IF I, IF I GO AND RENT THAT PLACE, THE OWNER'S GONNA BE ON SITE? YEAH.
THE DEF THEIR DEFINITION OF HOME SHARE IS A HOME OCCUPATION, WHICH ARE HOME OR ROOMS ARE OFFERED IN EXCHANGE FOR A COMPENSATION FOR A PERIOD OF 30 CONSECUTIVE DAYS OR LESS AS AN OWNER OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOME OR TOWNHOUSE WHO UTILIZES THE DWELLING AS HIS, HER PRIMARY RESIDENCE AND OCCUPIES THE DWELLING UNIT DURING ANY SUCH RENTAL.
HOME SHARES ARE SUBJECT TO BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
RE REGULATIONS, JUST LIKE WE EVER, THAT'S JUST ME RENTING.
THAT'S JUST LIKE ME, ME RENTING A ROOM IN MY HOUSE.
IT'S WHAT, WHAT I'M HEARING WE'RE THAT'S DIFFERENT DOWNSTAIRS FOR SURE.
DIFFERENT THAN I THINK WHAT I THINK WHAT THAT PREVENTS, I THINK WHAT THAT POLICY WOULD PREVENT IS SAY SOMEBODY FROM DOWN THE CITY COMING IN AND BUYING THREE, LET'S SAY A, A HOME DOWN OFF OF SOME STREET IN FRONT ROYAL THAT NEEDS TO BE RENOVATED AND THEY COME IN, RENOVATE IT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? AND THEN USE IT AS A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
BUT THEY DON'T EVEN LIVE HERE OR LIVE ANYWHERE.
WHICH I WILL TELL YOU WAS ONE OF THE THING, LIKE, LIKE THINGS THAT YOU'RE BRINGING UP MM-HMM.
[01:50:01]
THEY DON'T STAY THERE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? LIKE, THEY MIGHT, THAT MIGHT BE THEIR PRIMARY RESIDENCE, BUT THEY RENT IT OUT WHEN THEY'RE GOING AWAY OR THINGS LIKE THAT.I WOULD NEVER GO STAY IN AN AIRBNB.
BUT IN THEIR CENTRAL, IN THEIR CENTRAL DISTRICT FOR EXAMPLE, THEY ALLOW SHORT TERM RENTAL AND THEY ALSO ALLOW HOME SHARE.
BUT THE, IN THE CENTRAL DISTRICT, YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A PRIMARY RE RESIDENCE.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A PRIMARY RESIDENCE OF THE PROPERTY.
SO OBVIOUSLY THERE'S OUTSIDE INVESTORS IN DOWNTOWN FRONT ROYAL, YOU KNOW, SO THEY'RE NOT PRIMARY RESIDENTS.
UM, AND ALSO UNDER SHORT TERM RENTALS, THEY HAVE SOMETHING THEY CALL RESIDENTIAL BUSINESS R R B ONE WHERE YOU, YOU GET MORE OF THE MIX LIKE MAYBE BEHIND JACKSON STREET, THAT, THAT TYPE OF THING.
WELL THE, THE ONE THAT WE WERE LOOKING AT EARLIER TONIGHT, THE ONE WHERE THE, UM, APPLICANT BOUGHT THE HOME BUT NOW NEEDS TO RELOCATE TO GO TO SCHOOL, BUT WANTS IT TO BE A SHORT-TERM RENTAL SO THAT ON SUMMER BREAKS, YOU KNOW, WE, YOU KNOW, THAT SHE CAN COME BACK AND LIVE HER OWN HOME.
I THINK THAT KIND OF SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S NOT THE SAME AS THAT, BUT IT WOULD BE SIMILAR.
IT'S NOT SOMEBODY THAT'S BOUGHT SOMETHING AND IS BASICALLY RENTING IT OUT FOR RENTAL INCOME.
THAT'S SOMEBODY WHO IS, AND THIS ISN'T THE FIRST, WE'VE HAD ANOTHER APPLICANT LIKE THAT TOO, WHERE THEY LITERALLY BOUGHT THE HOUSE, RENOVATED IT, WANT TO USE IT FOR SHORT TERM RENTAL SO MANY WEEKS OUT OF THE YEAR SHE WORKS OUT OF TOWN.
'CAUSE SHE WORKS OUTTA TOWN, BUT, BUT SHE ALSO WANTS IT TO BE ABLE TO HELP HER PAY HER MORTGAGE WHEN SHE'S NOT LIVING THERE.
SO WE, WE HAVE, WE'VE HAD THAT MM-HMM
SO WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THE DEVELOPMENT THAT WE JUST DENIED DUE TO INGRESS EGRESS, NO TWO INCOME FAMILY IN FRONT ROYAL BUYING THEIR FIRST HOME WAS GONNA BUY A RYAN HOME.
UM, UNLESS IT'S A BEDROOM COMMUTER PERSON THAT'S GOING TO WORK, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE OF WARREN COUNTY.
UM, AND THE WAY THAT WE PROTECT THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE AND WANNA CONTINUE LIVING HERE OR WANT TO CHOOSE FRONT ROYAL AS THEIR HOME IS THE REAL ESTATE TAX RATE.
AND LORI, I KNOW YOU HEARD THIS WITH FORMER COUNCILS AT ONE POINT, FRONT ROYAL WAS IN THE TOP FIVE LOWEST REAL ESTATE TAX RATES IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA THAT MADE IT REALLY ATTRACTIVE TO BUY A HOME AND LIVE HERE AND MOVE HERE AND RAISE YOUR FAMILY HERE.
AND IF WE COULD FOCUS ON THINGS THAT GOT US BACK TO THAT, THAT WOULD BE REALLY GOOD.
UM, ONE OF THE FORMER COUNCIL'S CONCERNS WAS COMMERCIALIZING BY HAVING LARGE DEVELOPERS COME IN AND PURCHASE LOTS OF AIRBNBS.
AND THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE TO BE AIRBNBS.
IF WE COULD ALSO JUST REMEMBER TO DEFINE THAT IN SHORT TERM RENTAL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO EVEN LIST IT ON AIRBNB OR KNOW WHAT AN AIRBNB IS TO BE A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
BUT, UM, WITH THAT BEING SAID, IT HASN'T DONE THAT.
AND WE SAID IF IT DID, THEN WE WOULD LIKE TRY TO REIGN IT BACK IN.
WE WOULD, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THE CODE, BUT WE'VE HAD 15 AND 18 MONTHS, I BELIEVE IS IT 18 PLUS MONTHS WITH NO COMPLAINTS.
AND SEVERAL OF 'EM ARE, I MEAN, THERE'S A DEVELOPER WHO'S GETTING READY TO DEVELOP IN, IN THE, YOU KNOW, ROUTE 6 0 6 AREA WHO OWNS MULTIPLE DOWN HERE.
HE LIVES HERE AND INVESTS HERE, YOU KNOW, SO OUT OF 15 AND 18 MONTHS, WE DON'T, IT'S NOT BEING COMMERCIALIZED AND IT'S NOT BEING DEVELOPED BY PEOPLE OUTSIDE WHO DON'T HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN THIS COMMUNITY.
ONE OF THE ONES WE JUST APPROVED ON SOUTH ROYAL AVENUE, UM, IT WAS HIS OFFICE THAT HE TURNED INTO, WHICH WAS A MIXED USE.
IT'S APPRAISED TO BE RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL.
HE LIVES HERE, OWNS A BUSINESS HERE, AND MOVED HIS BUSINESS TO A DIFFERENT PART OF TOWN AND MADE THAT INTO IT.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT WE HAVE AN ISSUE CURRENTLY WITH IT, PEOPLE COMING OUTSIDE OF, WE ALSO JUST HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT, YOU ADDED THAT WE'VE HAD TWO THAT HAVE BEEN PEOPLE THAT OWN THEIR HOME BUT WANNA COME BACK HERE.
BUT FREE ENTERPRISE IN THE AMERICAN DREAM IS, YOU KNOW, AT WHAT POINT DO WE, AT WHAT POINT DID THE PEOPLE SITTING AROUND THIS TABLE CURRENTLY OR FUTURE COUNSELS HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY, WELL, BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT CHOOSING TO MAKE FRONT ROYAL YOUR HOME
[01:55:01]
THE ENTIRE YEAR, YOU DON'T DESERVE TO OWN A PIECE OF PROPERTY HERE.LIKE, HOW FAR IS TOO FAR? WELL, AND THAT'S JUST A QUESTION FOR, I'M NOT, IT'S NOT, IT'S A RHETORICAL QUESTION.
WE, WE'VE ONLY HAD 15 APPLICATIONS.
UH, THE COUNTY HAS HAD, I MEAN, I, I WOULDN'T EVEN VENTURE TO SAY WHAT THE NUMBER IS.
'CAUSE I FEEL LIKE SOME MEETINGS, THEIR ENTIRE MEETING IS THAT.
SO I THINK THAT MAYBE IT'S, I WOULD THINK THAT, I THINK IT APPEARS AS THOUGH THE COUNTY IS, 'CAUSE WE'RE 15,000, THE WHOLE COUNTY IS 45,000.
AND I'M THINKING THEY'VE GOT WAY MORE THAN TWO TIMES THE 15 THAT WE'RE DOING.
SO I, THE LAST POINT THAT I WANTED TO ADD TO THAT WAS, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT IT'S DOING TO THE APPEARANCE AND THE AESTHETIC OF FRONT OIL, OIL, IT'S ELEVATED IT.
SO I'M NOT GONNA RENT AN AIRBNB THAT LOOKS LIKE A PIECE OF CRAP ON THE OUTSIDE.
AND EVEN IF I PULL UP TO IT IN A DIFFERENT STATE AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S SKETCHY, I'M NOT GONNA GO IN, I'M GONNA GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND RENT SOMEWHERE ELSE.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT, UH, THERE WAS ONE ON, UM, I'M GONNA BUTCHER THE STREET.
WE CALLED IT THE BIG BIRD HOUSE.
UH, THIS COUNCIL WAS SITTING HERE FOR IT.
YOU LOOK AT SHELLY COOK'S PROPERTY, YOU LOOK AT THE ONE ON VIRGINIA AVENUE.
THESE ARE NICE PROPERTIES THAT HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED.
THEY'RE NOT DILAPIDATED BUILDINGS.
SO I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT CURRENTLY IT'S ELEVATING, UM, THE PRIDE IN OUR COMMUNITY AND IT'S ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR PROPERTY AND MAINTAIN IT, WHETHER THAT BE THE APPEARANCE OR THE SAFETY OF IT.
UM, SO CURRENTLY I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY MADE SEVERAL OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE RESIDENTIAL OLD NEIGHBORHOODS.
I LIVE IN A VERY OLD ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOOD.
I ACTUALLY GREW UP THERE AS A CHILD, AND WE HAVE A COUPLE OF 'EM IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND, UM, I FEEL SAFER WITH THOSE PEOPLE THAN I WOULD, YOU KNOW, STAYING AT A SUPER EIGHT OR MOTEL SIX, WHICH IS WHAT WE HAVE IN TOWN.
UM, OUR CURRENT HOTEL SITUATION IS NOT, IS, IS, YOU KNOW, AND WE HAVE THE DEPARTMENT, WE'LL MAKE IT BETTER.
WE HAVE CUSTOMS THAT HAS A CONTRACT OUT BY DY.
SO, YOU KNOW, MY FAMILY CALLED TO RESERVE A ROOM THERE, THEY'RE BOOKED.
YOU CAN'T GET A ROOM IN THE HOTELS IN THE COUNTY.
THE ONLY COMMENT THAT I'LL MAKE ON THAT IS, LIKE I JUST HEARD EARLIER TODAY THAT THERE'S 50 PEOPLE LOOKING FOR HOMES THAT ARE SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
WELL, PERHAPS IF THEY WEREN'T SHORT-TERM RENTALS, WE MIGHT HAVE 50 PLACES FOR PEOPLE TO STAY LONG-TERM.
SO, UH, AND THESE ARE SCHOOL TEACHERS, SO IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT LIKE CHIME ON YOUR, ON YOUR, ON THAT BOAT RIGHT THERE MM-HMM.
SO FOR SHORT-TERM RENTALS, WE'VE SEEN MOST OF THE SHORT-TERM RENTALS ARE OWNED BY PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE IN TOWN.
BUT LOOK AT THE LONG-TERM RENTALS THAT ARE HERE IN TOWN.
MOST OF THOSE ARE, LOT OF THOSE NOT ABOUT, THOSE DILAPIDATED OF ARE OWNED BY PEOPLE HERE IN TOWN.
A LOT OF THEM, I MEAN, IT OF, I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE ON MOST OF THE, MOST OF THE BUSINESSES ARE HERE ON MAIN STREET ARE OWNED BY PEOPLE IN TOWN.
THE PEOPLE, THE APARTMENT COMPLEXES HERE, A LOT OF THEM GOES AFTER THE LONG TERM RENTAL OF COMPLAINT OF, A LOT OF THEM ARE OWNED BOAT BY PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF TOWN.
SO IN THAT REGARD, I MEAN, IF YOU DO, IF YOU, I THINK IF YOU'RE GONNA COMPARE, COMPARE AESTHETICS AND, AND, AND BEAUTIFICATION, I MEAN, I THINK THAT THE SHORT TERM RENTALS HAVE, HAVE DONE JUST THAT.
I THINK IF THEY'VE, THEY'VE DONE SOME GOOD IN THAT REGARD.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE THE, THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THINK OF IT THAT WAY TOO, IS THAT THE LONG-TERM RENTALS.
AND THAT WAS MY POINT AGAINST THAT.
IT'S LIKE, WELL, WE WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE COMMERCIALIZATION OF PEOPLE BUYING UP HOUSES AND RENTING 'EM OUT.
WELL, OKAY, WELL PEOPLE ALREADY DOING THAT HERE.
I MEAN, MOST OF THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE, MY NEIGHBORS THAT LIVE IN THE HOUSES NEXT DOOR TO ME, THEIR LANDLORDS DON'T LIVE HERE IN TOWN, BUT THEY'VE OWNED THEIR PROPERTY FOR, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE BEEN RENTING A PROPERTY 15, 20 YEARS.
AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.
I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, IT'S, TO ME AT LEAST DOESN'T BOTHER ME, BUT STILL TO, I, I JUST DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A FAIR COMPARISON BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING HERE.
WE'VE ALREADY GOT A, A LOT OF LONG-TERM RENTALS HERE IN TOWN ARE OWNED BY PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF TOWN, SO, AND AREN'T, AND SOME OF THEM AREN'T REALLY, AND WE DON'T, SOME OF THEM AREN'T VERY CARE, CARE, YOU KNOW.
THE THOUGHT WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I WAS A PROPONENT OF, OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS BEING KNOW THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND I'LL, I I'LL SAY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE AMBIGUITY OF THE PARKING, UM, WAS THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL BECAUSE IT IS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
WE CAN SET ANY CONDITION THAT WE WANT FOR THAT MATTER.
AND THAT WAS THE THOUGHT IS THAT, OKAY, WHAT I DO UNDER, YOU KNOW, BUT EVERY, EVERY TIME WE GET AN APPLICATION, IT COMES UP, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S A, IT'S A TEST TO, TO LAUREN STAFF TO HAVE TO, TO THROW IT, YOU KNOW, TO SEE IF IT STICKS.
BUT, BUT, UH, AGAIN, THESE ARE SPECIAL USE
[02:00:01]
PERMITS FOR A REASON.YOU KNOW, AND, AND, UH, I KNOW I, AS WHEN I WAS ON PLANNING COMMISSION WHEN THIS WENT THROUGH, AT LEAST I HAD THE MINDSET OF LIKE, LOOK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THAT THE COUNCIL NEEDS TO MAKE ON THIS REGARD.
YOU KNOW, WE CAN MAKE A RECOMMENDATION, BUT ULTIMATELY THE COUNSEL CAN MAKE ITS OWN DECISION, YOU KNOW, CASE BY CASE.
SO, AND ALSO HAS THE ABILITY TO WITHDRAW IT.
I MEAN, THAT'S, THAT'S THE OTHER THING THAT I, YOU KNOW, OR THESE WERE THINGS THAT ALL CAME UP WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE SHORT TERM RENTAL, UM, ORDINANCE OR CHAPTER 1 75.
IS, IS THAT, IS THAT IF AT ANY TIME IT BECOMES A SITUATION WITH COMPLAINTS OR WHATEVER, OR MAYBE WE GO DOWN A DIFFERENT PATH, THAT WE CAN ALWAYS WITHDRAW SOMEBODY'S SHORT TERM RENTAL TOO.
WHICH IS WHY I THINK SOME ADVOCATES HAVE BEEN NERVOUS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, DO I APPLY FOR A SHORT-TERM RENTAL OR DO I APPLY FOR THIS? BECAUSE WE, WE COULD PULL IT BACK.
BUT SOME OTHER THINGS, WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THAT.
LONG-TERM RENTALS, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT OTHER THAN COMPLAINT BASED GOING IN, CITING THEM, FINDING THEM, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.
BUT THERE ISN'T A, UM, ISN'T THAT, SO WAYNE, I'M GONNA GO AHEAD 'CAUSE I WANNA GIVE EVERYBODY AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY SOMETHING FIRST BEFORE WE START REBUTTING IT, HAVING THOUGHTS ABOUT IT.
I, I JUST WOULD LIKE TO REVIEW THE STUFF THAT I, TO LOOK AT WINCHESTER'S.
YOU KNOW, I'VE MIXED FEELINGS.
MAYOR, I, I THINK LAUREN PLANNING AND THEIR GROUP DOES A FANTASTIC JOB OF REVIEWING APPLICATIONS.
AND IN CASES TONIGHT, UH, THOSE APPLICATIONS WERE DENIED FOR, UH, SPECIFIC REASONS THAT WE HAVE GUIDELINES SET UP FOR.
UM, IF IN THE LAST 18 MONTHS WE'VE HAD 15, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT A, A TOWN OF 15,000, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY HOMES THAT IS, BUT TO HAVE 15 DEDICATED TO SHORT-TERM RENTALS TO ME RIGHT NOW IS, DOESN'T PRESENT TOO MUCH OF AN ISSUE GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE ARE REVIEWING APPLICATIONS, UM, AND, UM, UM, REVIEWING THOSE AGAINST, UH, E E E EXISTING POLICIES, PROCEDURES, AND RULES.
AND, AND, AND I'M IN FAVOR OF ALL OF THAT.
UM, MY MIXED FEELING IS I DON'T KNOW WHERE THIS IS GONNA GO.
HOWEVER, THIS, THIS COUNCIL OR A FUTURE COUNCIL HAS THE OPPORTUNITY, UH, BASED ON REVIEW OF PLANNING, UH, AND A REVIEW OF, UH, OF THE REQUESTS, UH, TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OR DENIAL AND LEAVING IT UP TO THE COUNCIL.
SO I THINK A LOT OF THE AUTHORITY IN HOW THIS DEVELOPS IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO THIS COUNCIL.
AND I THINK IT'S A GREAT RESPONSIBILITY TO HAVE.
UH, AT THIS POINT, I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT IT.
UM, SO, AND WE CAN I CLARIFY SOMETHING BEFORE? YEAH, I, I WANTED TO SAY ONE OTHER THING FIRST.
SO, SO, UM, THE OTHER PART OF THIS THAT, THE REASON WHY THIS CAME ON THE AGENDA TOO, NOW BRUCE DID REQUEST FOR THIS TO BE ADDED TO THE AGENDA, BUT I HAD ALREADY, LAUREN AND I HAD ALREADY TALKED BECAUSE AS OTHER PEOPLE POINT OUT EACH TIME THE APPLICATIONS, IF YOU'LL NOTICE EVEN YOUR SHORT TIME ON COUNCIL, IT ALWAYS CAME DOWN ON PARKING.
SO THAT WAS THE OTHER THOUGHT IS, IS THAT, IS THAT, AS WE LOOK AT THIS, DO WE WANT TO MAKE ANY, UM, DO WE WANNA MAKE ANY CHANGES IN REGARDS TO THE PARKING REQUIREMENT AT THIS POINT, TOO? SO, BRUCE, WHAT WERE YOU GONNA, DO YOU WANNA OFFER? WELL, I WAS JUST GONNA REBUTTAL TO, UM, I'M NOT, I WASN'T TRYING, I WASN'T BASHING SHORT-TERM RENTALS.
WHAT IF THAT, IF IT CAME ACROSS THAT WAY, WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT MY BELIEF IS SHORT TERM RENTALS BELONG IN, IN GENERAL CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICTS, RESIDENTIAL BUSINESS DISTRICTS.
AND THAT, AND THE DIFFERENCE BEING HOME HOMES SHARE ALLOWS FOR WHAT WE, WHAT PEOPLE ARE ADDRESSING AT THIS TABLE.
TONIGHT, SO THAT, YOU KNOW, BEING A TOUR, A TOURISM TOWN MM-HMM.
[02:05:01]
OUT THAT WAY, NORTH ROYAL AVENUE, UM, AND THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICTS BEING MAIN STREET.AND I THINK THE FUTURE, THEY BELIEVE THAT THERE'S GONNA BE SOME ACTIVITY, UM, AT LEAST STAFF DOES.
UM, AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION THAT JOSH SERVED ON, UH, AROUND, UH, BETWEEN SOUTH STREET AND, UH, MAIN, UH, SO THAT, THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
AND THAT'S WHAT WINCHESTER IS DOING DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'RE DOING.
SO WOULD YOU LIKE FOR OKAY, ARE YOU, SO THAT, THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO MAKE THAT YEAH, NO, I WAS GONNA, I'M JUST ASKING, SO IS THE THOUGHT, AND I MIGHT BE WRONG, SO TELL ME IF I'M, IF I'M MISINTERPRETING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YOU'RE, YOU'RE SUGGESTING THAT MAYBE WE TAKE A LOOK AT CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WE WOULD, I CALL 'EM NEIGHBORHOODS, BUT IT, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S NOT COMMERCIAL BUSINESS DISTRICT, BUT ARE YOU SAYING CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WE LOOK AT THOSE AND SAY THAT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE WE WOULDN'T ALLOW IT? UM, THEN YOU'RE GONNA GET INTO THE, YOU'RE MAKING PEOPLE NOT HAVE ACCESS TO MONEY.
I'M, I'M ASKING WHAT THE, THERE'S, THERE'S NO PERFECT SCENARIO HERE.
BUT IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THE FUTURE LAND USE MM-HMM.
BECAUSE THE, THE COLORS IN YELLOW, UH, THOSE ARE THE, THOSE ARE THE PROPERTIES THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT THAT WE NEED, WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL WITH.
AND, UM, ACTUALLY THERE'S SOME OTHER COLORS IN HERE THAT YOU MIGHT, WE MIGHT WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT.
BUT I'M JUST, I WANTED TO MAKE, I WANTED TO DEFINE THAT A LITTLE MORE CAREFULLY.
'CAUSE I DON'T WANT ANYONE GETTING THE, THE IMPRESSION THAT, UM, BASHING SHORT TERM RENTALS.
I KNEW HOW YOU FELT ABOUT IT BEFORE YOU SPOKE TONIGHT.
YOU FELT LIKE THEY DID THE LONG BUSINESS AREAS.
I WILL JUST SAY THAT IT'S VERY SPORADIC WHERE BUSINESSES ARE IN OUR TOWN TOO, BECAUSE WHILE YOU, WHILE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH AUTOMATICALLY GO TO MAIN STREET, SOUTH STREET, I RECENTLY VISITED A HOUSE, A PERSON I DIDN'T KNOW, UH, LAST WEEK.
AND AS I'M WALKING UP ON THEIR PORCH, I SAW A BUSINESS LICENSE ALL THE WAY DOWN THEIR WINDOW.
AND I THOUGHT, WHAT THE HECK KIND OF BUSINESS ARE THEY RUNNING OUT OF THIS HOUSE? SO I WAS TALKING TO 'EM ABOUT IT, BUT THERE'S, AND THIS WASN'T THE EXAMPLE I'LL USE, BUT IN A VERY SMALL QUAT RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD BACK BEHIND ME IN TOWN.
I WALKED UP TO THE WOMAN DOOR KNOCKING LAST YEAR, AND SHE RUNS A, YOU KNOW, MASSAGE AND THERAPEUTIC SPA OUT OF HER HOME.
AND THAT'S IN A VERY UNIQUE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD.
SO THERE ARE BUSINESSES IN OUR RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS TOO.
I'VE TALKED TO TWO DEVELOPERS IN THE LAST FIVE DAYS WHO INTEND TO TRY TO BRING SOME TYPE OF CONDOS OR WORKFORCE HOUSING TO OUR AREA.
UM, AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE, THEY'RE GONNA BE IN MIXED USE AREAS, BUT ALSO OUR LAND USE MAP IN THE YELLOW AREAS.
LIKE, LET'S BE HONEST, AND FRANK IS 6 0 6 BEING USED AS AN INDUSTRIAL PARK RIGHT NOW.
BECAUSE TO ME, I DON'T THINK OF CHELSEA ACADEMY AND THE HUMANE SOCIETY AND HUMAN LIFE INTERNATIONAL AS PART OF AN INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, BUT THEY ARE.
SO THAT AREA DIDN'T GET USED FOR WHAT THE LAND USE MAP WAS IMPLYING THAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN EITHER.
AND I THINK WHEN YOU GET INTO THE WEEDS OF IT, YOU KNOW, THE LONG-TERM RENTALS, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IN THE COMMERCIAL AREAS.
AND I'M, AND I WON'T GO BACK AND FORTH.
I'M JUST SPEAKING FROM, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO'S OWNED MULTIPLE PROPERTIES HERE AND DONE MORTGAGES FOR A LONG TIME.
THOSE ARE LONG-TERM RENTALS ON SHORT STREET OR SOUTH STREET AND EVEN MAIN STREET ABOVE THESE BUILDINGS, THEY'RE LONG-TERM RENTALS.
AND, UM, WE TALK ABOUT BEING A TOURIST TOWN, AND WE WANT PEOPLE TO COME HERE, SPEND THEIR MONEY AND GO HOME.
ONE OF THE AIRBNBS THAT I RENTED LAST MONTH, JUST DUE TO THE SAFETY AND QUIETNESS AT NIGHT AND THE FINANCIAL ASPECT OF IT, I COMMUTED INTO THE CITY THAT WE WERE VISITING 30 TO 45 MINUTES EVERY DAY TO STAY IN A MORE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, TO BE QUIET AT NIGHT FOR MY KIDS TO BE ABLE TO SLEEP AND NOT HAVE TRAFFIC OUTSIDE THE DOOR.
SO I JUST, UH, I THINK IT'S HARD TO SAY IN THE, YOU KNOW, DOWNTOWN COMMERCIAL AREAS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT, AND I HATE TO PICK ON THIS PROPERTY AGAIN, IT'S THE SECOND TIME TONIGHT.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT SHELLY'S DEVELOPMENT AND YOU STAND ON THE FRONT PORCHES OF THOSE COTTAGES, THAT'S HIGH DENSITY THROUGH THERE.
AND THAT WAS ZONED RESIDENTIAL, AS
[02:10:01]
YOU GUYS ALL TALKED ABOUT AT THE WORK SESSION.I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S A RESIDENTIAL AREA WHERE HER COTTAGES ARE.
I THINK IT'S VERY COMMERCIALIZED AND A VERY BUSY STREET.
SO DESPITE BEING ZONED RESIDENTIAL, YEAH, I THINK IT'S THE PERFECT AREA FOR COMMERCIAL OR MIXED USE, RATHER.
YOU'D BE SURPRISED THAT THE OWN BUSINESSES THAT ARE IN TOWN, I KNOW THERE'S TWO ON MY STREET.
I'VE GOT ONE LADY ACROSS THE STREET HAS ONE.
ANYTIME WE REGULATE THINGS, I JUST WONDER LIKE HOW FAR IS TOO FAR.
BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT FOR US, SITTING AROUND THIS TABLE, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT FOR FUTURE COUNCILS AND IF WE ALLOW LONG-TERM RENTERS, WHICH I THINK THE MAJORITY OF LAUREN'S COMPLAINTS IN HER DEPARTMENT RIGHT NOW ARE COMING FROM THE LONG-TERM RENTALS.
YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THE MOUNT VERNON APARTMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN PROBLEMATIC FOR YEARS.
THOSE ARE LONG-TERM RENTERS THAT WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE BUILDING MAINTENANCE DEPARTMENT THAT'S NEWLY IMPLEMENTED TO REGULATE THOSE.
SO TO GO OVER REGULATE SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN A POSITIVE TO THE COMMUNITY AT THIS POINT, I DON'T KNOW.
WELL, I, I CAN AGREE WITH, WITH SOME OF YOUR POINTS, BUT, UH, WE DIDN'T GET TO THIS POINT OVERNIGHT.
AND SOME OF THE TEACHERS, TEACHERS THAT ARE HERE LOOKING FOR HOMES, THEY, THEY STAYED IN SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND THEY CAME AND HAD THEIR INTERVIEWS AT THE SCHOOL BOARD.
THERE WERE SHORT-TERM RENTAL PEOPLE THAT CALLED ME AND SAID, HEY, A TEACHER CAME UP TO INTERVIEW.
YOU KNOW, THEY STAYED IN MY SHORT-TERM RENTAL AND THEY'RE ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE TOWN.
UM, I RAN INTO MR. IHIJI AND MR. HEKE LAST WEEK, AND THEY TOLD ME THAT THEY OFFER COUPONS TO LOCAL BUSINESSES AND THEIR AIRBNBS THAT WE'VE APPROVED.
SO THEY'RE REALLY PUSHING PEOPLE TO SPEND THEIR MONEY HERE AND THEN GO HOME INSTEAD OF JUST COMING, STAYING THE NIGHT TO GET ON SKYLINE DRIVE THE NEXT MORNING.
WE ACTUALLY, THERE'S, THERE'S ACTUALLY SOME TEACHERS, WELL, I WON'T SAY SOME, AT LEAST ONE THAT I KNOW OF, BUT I'VE HEARD THERE'S OTHERS THAT ARE ACTUALLY STAYING IN SHORT-TERM RENTALS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEIR RENTAL ISN'T GONNA BE AVAILABLE UNTIL SEPTEMBER 1ST.
SO, ALL RIGHT, SO LET ME GET BACK ON TASK HERE.
'CAUSE THE TASK IS ALL I WANT TO ADDRESS.
SO I REALLY, WHAT I, I JUST WANNA KNOW, IS THERE SOME PIECE OF THIS CHAPTER 1 75 THAT COUNCIL, RIGHT NOW, THERE'S A CONSENSUS ON COUNCIL RIGHT NOW THAT WE WANT TO CHANGE, FOR EXAMPLE, PARKING.
IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE DEFINITELY NEED TO LOOK AT IS PARKING, THEN THAT'S ONE THING.
AND THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE CAN'T HAVE PEOPLE LOOK INTO THE THINGS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE DOING A LITTLE BIT MORE RESEARCH AND DELVING INTO WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN WINCHESTER AND BRINGING THAT FORWARD.
UM, LIKE THAT CHICKEN CHICKEN, I'LL SAY, I DON'T WANNA BE LIKE WINCHESTER.
I'M NOT SAYING I THEY HAVE IT RESTRICTED FOR WHERE YOU CAN CARRY YOUR GUN.
I'M BEING RESPECTFUL BECAUSE TWO PEOPLE SAID THEY WANTED TO TO YEAH.
I'M NOT SAYING WE HAVE TO DO IT.
I'M JUST SAYING, WHAT, WHAT DO WE NEED TO ADDRESS NOW? WHAT DO WE NEED TO ADDRESS NOW? JOE, GO AHEAD.
JUST WANNA REMIND THAT COUNSEL NEEDS TO REFER THIS TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO DO CORRECT, BECAUSE IT'S IN THE ZONING ORDER.
BUT DO WE NEED TO GIVE A RECOMMENDATION? SO, SO YOU HAVE TO SEND IT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION WITH SOME TYPE OF DIRECTION FOR THEM TO, SO COULD WE, OBVIOUSLY, IF WE WANNA TALK ABOUT THE PARKING, BUT IF WE WANTED TO, IF WE WANTED TO ASK PC TO INVESTIGATE WHAT'S BEING DONE SOMEWHERE ELSE, WOULD WE SEND IT TO THEM? OR THAT'S NOT REALLY A RECOMMENDATION.
THAT'S MORE OF LIKE A REQUEST.
ANYBODY? WELL, WE CAN HAVE STAFF LOOK AT IT, BUT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO ALLOW STAFF ENOUGH TIME TO DO THE DUE DILIGENCE.
WE COULD NOT PROBABLY TURN THIS AROUND QUICKLY.
IT WOULD TAKE 30, 60 DAYS EASY.
WELL, THE PLANNING COMMISSION WOULD RATHER HAVE A RESOLUTION OF SOME SORT IF POSSIBLE.
HE'S SAYING STAFF NEEDS 30 TO 60 DAYS TO INVESTIGATE AND THEN COME BACK AND THEN WE WOULD SEND IT TO EC AFTER THAT.
WE JUST, WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE BANDWIDTH TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
WHAT IF WE SEND A RECOMMENDATION TO HIM JUST ABOUT THE PARK? THAT'S WHAT I, WHAT I'M SAYING, IF Y'ALL, WE COULD AT LEAST START THERE BECAUSE THAT, THAT SEEMS TO BE THE ELEPHANT THAT KEEPS COMING BACK UP IS THE PARKING.
AND CAN'T YOU LIKE, OKAY, AT THE TIME OF LIKE, YOU ISSUE AN OCCUPANCY PERMIT, CAN'T YOU ISSUE AND SAY, CAN'T PART OF THE PERMIT PROCESS SAY, OKAY, THIS, THIS HOUSING UNIT, UM, WE RECOMMEND NO MORE THAN, WELL, IT ONLY HAS AVAILABLE TWO PARKING SPACES OR THERE'S NO OFF STREET PARKING.
LIKE WHEN I GO TO, WHEN I GO TO STAND IN THE AIRBNB, IT GIVES ME THOSE RULES OF WHATEVER, YOU KNOW, IT'LL TELL, YOU'LL PARK HERE.
IT'LL TELL YOU, YOU KNOW, THIS IS ALLOWED, THIS ISN'T ALLOWED.
SO FOR THIS UNIT, IT'S GONNA SAY, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO PARK ON THE STREET OR THIS UNIT.
AND IF THE OWNER RENTS IT TO THAT PERSON, THEN THEY'RE GONNA BE IN VIOLATION OF WHAT THEY'RE COMMITTED TO DO.
I MEAN, IS THAT PART OF THE, CAN WE, I THINK SOMETHING LIKE THAT'S GONNA MUDDY THE WATER.
I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE A BLANKET
[02:15:01]
RULE, A BLANKET CODE ALL TO HOUSING ACROSS THE BOARD.IT, IT'S NOT JUST THE SHORT TERM RENTALS THAT WE'RE HAVING THE PARKING ISSUES WITH.
WE HAVE A PROVISION IN THE CODE THAT ALLOWS FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FROM THE PARKING REQUIREMENT.
BUT IN ORDER TO DO THAT, LIKE THAT'S GONNA LENGTHEN THE PROCESS FOR ANY OF THESE APPROVALS BY THREE TO FIVE MONTHS.
UM, SO IF SOMEBODY COMES IN FOR THE SHORT TERM RENTAL, LIKE BOTH TONIGHT, THEY COULD ALSO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION FOR A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FROM THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
BUT THAT'S ANOTHER APPLICATION THAT I TAKE IN.
I TAKE THE PLANNING COMMISSION, THEN I BRING IT TO YOU.
UM, IT CAN'T BE DONE AT THE SAME TIME.
BUT WHEN WE TAKE THESE APPLICATIONS IN, YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR PC.
I HAVE TO GET IT TO PLANNING COMMISSION WORK SESSION.
SO BY THE TIME MY STAFF GETS IT ENTERED, IT'S STILL A WEEK OR TWO BEFORE I'M LOOKING AT IT, OR JOHN'S LOOKING AT IT THAT WE EVEN FIGURE OUT, OH, WAIT A MINUTE, THEY DON'T HAVE PARKING.
UM, AND THAT'S JUST, THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF THE ACTUAL APPLICATION.
SO AT THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, WE NOTIFY THE APPLICANT, BUT IT, IT'S BETTER FOR THEM TO TAKE IT THROUGH THE PROCESS THAN TO WITHDRAW IT.
BECAUSE I MEAN, THE, SO WHAT IS, YOU SAY, NO, IF IN A PERFECT WORLD, IF YOU COULD WAVE, WAVE A MAGIC WAND, LAUREN, WHAT DO YOU THINK WE NEED? I MEAN, WHAT I THINK WE NEED TO CLARIFY THE LANGUAGE OF THAT PARKING SECTION.
AND BECAUSE IT SAYS LIKE DESIGNATED OR APPROVED PARKING AREAS OFF STREET PARKING DOESN'T CONSTITUTE DESIGNATED OR APPROVED, OR SORRY, ON-STREET PARKING DOESN'T COUNT AS THAT DESIGNATED OR APPROVED PARKING.
SO WE'VE HAD, WHAT, FOUR OR FIVE INSTANCES NOW WHERE THEY'RE HAVING TO GET SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS FROM A PARKING COORDINATE REQUIREMENTS JUST TO OPERATE.
SO DOES THIS COUNCIL WANT TO ASK PLANNING COMMISSION TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS, UH, IN CHAPTER 1 75? IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH FOR US TO SAY THAT JOE IS OR DO WE HAVE TO DO IT AT A COUNCIL MEETING? YEAH, I HAVE TO DO IT AT A COUNCIL MEETING TO REPORT IT AT A COUNCIL MEETING.
REFER TO PLANNING COMMISSION FOR BOARD.
AND JOE, THEY JUST TALKED ABOUT DESIGNATED PARKING.
WE, I THINK IT WAS THIS COUNCIL APPROVED A SHORT-TERM RENTAL ON CHESTER STREET, THE YELLOW HOUSE.
THEY DID A TON OF WORK, BEAUTIFIED IT.
THERE'S A PUBLIC PARKING, UM, VICINITY ACROSS THE STREET THAT DIDN'T CONSTITUTE AS APPROVED OR DESIGNATED PARKING.
BUT, BUT WE HAD THE ABILITY TO, AND THERE'S NO DRIVEWAY.
I MEAN, THAT IS THE ABILITY OF COUNSEL TO LOOK AT EACH, IT'S DELAYED.
THREE, WE CAN DIFFERENTIATE EACH APPLICATION.
BACK TO WHAT, WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO, GEORGE, TO SEND THIS BACK TO PC? A MOTION.
A MOTION AT, SO, SO ON AUGUST 28TH, A MOTION TO REFER, WE CAN MAKE A MOTION TO REFER THIS TO PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT WE NEED TO, WHAT DOES THE MO THE MOTION IS GOING TO BE FOR THEM TO LOOK AT THE PARKING REQUIREMENT AND CLEAN UP THE LANGUAGE? WHAT IS IT? I WOULD JUST SAY REVISE THE LANGUAGE OF THE PARKING.
FOR HOUSES THAT DO NOT HAVE DEDICATED OFF STREET PARKING, WE CANNOT REQUIRE OFF STREET PARKING.
IT JUST, IT LITERALLY LOGICALLY MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.
THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHAT THEY'LL DO.
LET, LET ME SET A, A LITTLE BIT OF A BASELINE HERE BASED ON TOWN CODE.
1 75, 1 0 4 OFF STREET PARKING.
ALL NEW USES OR DEVELOPMENTS AND CHANGES OF USE SHALL COMPLY WITH THE OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS OF CHAPTER 1 48.
AND THEN IF YOU GO TO 1 48, 1 48, 8 70 OFF, STREETT PARKING SHALL BE PROVIDED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS SUBSECTION ON EVERY LOT OR PARCEL ON WHICH ANY USE IS ESTABLISHED OR EXPANDED.
AND THEN IT GIVES YOU A MATRIX DEPENDING ON, AND I'LL JUST SAY IT THIS WAY, THE INTENSITY OF THE USE, SO THE LEAST INTENSE USE IN THE TABLE OR MATRIX IS RESIDENTIAL TWO PARKING SPACES PER DWELLING UNIT.
UM, SHORT TERM RENTALS DO NOT APPEAR ON THE TABLE.
SO BY CODE IT'S LEFT TO THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR PLANNING DIRECTOR TO DETERMINE WHICH IS THE MOST, IS THE CLOSEST CATEGORY.
AND LAUREN HAS DETERMINED THAT THE CLOSEST IS LODGING, BOARDING, BED AND BREAKFAST, WHICH IS WHERE THAT ADDITIONAL, AT LEAST ONE ADDITIONAL OR MORE PARKING SPACES COME IN, WHICH SAYS ONE PARKING SPACE PER ROOM, BEDROOM, AND AN ADDITIONAL TWO, UH, FOR EMPLOYEES.
[02:20:01]
IS THAT BEDROOM OR JUST ROOM BEDROOM.I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.
WHEREAS RESIDENTIAL SAYS TWO PARKING SPACES PER DWELLING UNIT.
CAN I, SO, SO WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS IS ONE POTENTIAL AMENDMENT HERE IS TO DETERMINE WHICH PLACE IN THAT TABLE, RIGHT.
YOU CAN PUT SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
CAN I ADD THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR THE ZONING DEPARTMENT MADE US CONSIDER CHESTER STREET'S PULLOUT COUCH AS A BEDROOM.
WE COUNTED TWO PEOPLE FOR THEIR LIVING ROOM, FOR THEIR PULLOUT COUCH.
SO THIS IS WHERE I'M LIKE, IT GETS REALLY MUDDY.
SO I GUESS THE LAST POINT IS, SO THE, THE TWO AVENUES FOR, UH, AN APPLICANT THAT LACK, CAN'T MEET THE PARKING REQUIREMENT, FIND OTHER OFF STREET OFFSITE PARKING WITHIN 300 YARDS, OR GET A SPECIAL EXCEPTION FROM COUNCIL AND 300 YARDS.
WE COULDN'T CONSIDER THE GAZEBO PARKING LOT, EVEN THOUGH IT'S LESS THAN 300 YARDS.
YEAH, BUT I'M JUST, THIS, I'M JUST RECITING CODE.
THAT, THAT NO, I KNOW IT'S NOT YOU.
BUT WE COULDN'T COUNT THE, LIKE BEHIND WHERE THE CHESTER STREET LIKE BEER MUSEUM THAT OPEN 24 HOUR PARKING LOT, WE COULDN'T COUNT THAT.
OR THE GAZEBO, EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE BOTH LESS THAN 300 YARDS AND MAYBE WERE THE FIRST SPECIAL EXCEPTION YOU ISSUED, IT DELAYED HER BY THREE MONTHS, WHICH SHE LOST PEAK LEAF SEASON, WHICH IS WHAT THEY OPENED IT FOR.
SO IT'S JUST, I WOULD BE FRUSTRATED AS A PROPERTY OWNER IF I CAME, APPLIED FOR A SHORT-TERM RENTAL, GOT THE TEMP CHECK ON THE PC AND THE TOWN COUNCIL, AND THEN HAD TO APPLY FOR ANOTHER EXCEPTION AND WAITED ANOTHER THREE MONTHS.
SO IF I, I'LL JUST MAKE ONE MORE POINT IF I CAN.
SO THERE'S NO PROCESS FOR WAIVING PARKING THAT, THAT 'CAUSE IT'S IN TOWN THERE.
WELL, THAT'S JUST, NO, I'M TALKING ABOUT FOR ANY USE COUNSEL CAN JUST MAKE UP A MOTION LIKE WE'VE DONE BEFORE.
BUT THE STAFF CAN'T RECOMMEND THAT.
WELL THERE, THERE, THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO ENABLING LANGUAGE IN TOWN CODE THAT ALLOWS COUNSEL TO JUST SIMPLY WAIVE PARKING.
UH, WELL, OTHER, OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT IT'S A SPECIAL, YOU CAN DO A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
NOW I'M NOT THAT'S BUT BUT JUST A BLANKET WAIVER.
BUT WHAT LAUREN WAS JUST SAYING IS TO DO THE SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
'CAUSE WE COULD DO THAT AND WE'VE DONE THAT.
IT'S A MINIMUM OF THREE MONTHS.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YES.
AND I THINK, THINK IT'S INDICATIVE OF A PROBLEM IN THE CODE.
IF WE HAVE TO KEEP HAVING SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS FROM THE CODE, THAT TELLS ME THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THE CODE.
SO LET ME, IF I CAN KEEP GOING.
WHENEVER SOMEBODY SUBMITS A SITE PLAN, IF THEY DON'T HAVE REQUIRED PARKING, WHAT HAPPENS? IT GETS DENIED.
THERE'S NO PROCESS FOR DOING ANYTHING ELSE.
YOU, YOU JUST USES REQUIRED PARKING.
SO ARE YOU, UH, I'M JUST ASK SO TO BE ABLE TO, UH, CLARIFY OR QUITE FRANKLY, I'M GONNA USE THE WORD LOOSEN, LOOSEN UP THE PARKING REQUIREMENT FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS.
'CAUSE THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE ALL TALKING ABOUT.
THAT'S WHAT WE WE'RE CALLING IT CLEANING UP.
BUT I KNOW THAT'S WHAT YOU KNOW, IS TO BE ABLE TO NOT HAVE THESE, UM, WHAT WE CONSIDER MAYBE RESTRICTED PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
THERE IS REALLY NO WAY TO DO THAT UNLESS WE WOULD CHANGE THE WHOLE TOWN CODE ABOUT USE PARKING USES.
WELL, I'M ZONING USES REQUIRE PARKING.
LIKE WE HAVE TO HAVE PARKING FOR THE USES.
I THINK THAT IF WE JUST HAVE A, IDEALLY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE JUST TO FLAT OUT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE OFF STREET PARKING.
IF THEY DON'T, I DON'T TAKE IN THE APPLICATION.
BUT IF I, I DON'T, I GENUINELY DON'T KNOW HOW YOU LOOSEN THIS UP.
THEY HAVE TO HAVE SOME TYPE OF PARKING.
HOW MANY HOUSES IN CATEGOR TABLE, THE PARKING TABLE, SHORT TERM RENTALS REQUIRE X SPOTS OF OFF STREET PARKING.
I MEAN, IF YOU WANNA SET IT UNTIL ONE OR TWO, YOU CAN, BUT IF THAT, HOW MANY OF US HAVE HAVE GONE TO B AND BS OR, UH, WHERE I'VE HAD TO PARK AROUND THE CORNER PARK A BLOCK AWAY? I MEAN, I I NUMBERS OF THEM.
I GO TO SAVANNAH, DIFFERENT CITIES WHERE YOU GO AND IF YOU GO INTO A HISTORIC AREA, FOR EXAMPLE.
MANY OF THOSE HISTORIC AREAS REALLY DO NOT HAVE PARKING AVAILABLE EXCEPT FOR ON THE STREET.
AND IT'S LIKE CATCH AS CATCH CAN AND IF YOU WANNA RENT THIS PLACE, YEAH.
YOU GOTTA BE WILLING TO PARK WHERE YOU CAN PARK.
AND IT'S, IT IS NOT FOR ME TO ACCOMMO.
I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S ON THAT LEVEL.
IT'S NOT FOR ME TO ACCOMMODATE AND TO MAKE PARKING AVAILABLE FOR SOMEONE TO COME IN FOR
[02:25:02]
A SHORT TERM.WELL, I, I THINK, I DON'T KNOW.
IF YOU'RE GONNA MAKE IT VALID FOR, IF YOU'RE GONNA MAKE A REQUIREMENT FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
IT'S NOT REQUIRED FOR SOMEBODY THAT LIVES THERE.
I KNOW, BUT I MEAN, BUT SOMETIMES, BUT I MEAN, I'M TALKING ABOUT FOR, BUT THERE ARE PLACES HERE IN TOWN, SOMEBODY RENT THEIR RENTABLE LONG TERM.
THEY DON'T COME AND PUT AN APPLICATION ON A BOARD.
WHENEVER SOMEBODY COMES, IF IT'S A NEW BILL, DON'T HAVE PARKING WHENEVER AN APPLICATION COMES IN, THAT'S THE POINT AT WHICH YOU HAVE A SNAPSHOT.
ARE YOU MEETING THE REQUIREMENT AFTER THAT? WE DON'T DO APPLICATIONS FOR LONG TIME.
YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE TWO SPOTS YOU HAD ON? I SEE IT.
IT IS NOT, IT'S NOT FORWARD LOOKING.
IT'S LOOKING AT THE TIME OF THE APPLICATION.
CAN PEOPLE PARK WHEREVER THEY WANT THAT COME TO A SHORT-TERM RENTAL OR ANY OTHER BUSINESS? SURE.
BUT THAT, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT WHEN IT COMES TO THE ZONING DEPARTMENT.
OH, I KNOW WE'RE LOOKING AT MEETING THE REQUIREMENT FOR THAT APPLICATION, BUT WE VOTED ON ONE WHERE WE HAD A RECOMMENDATION AND A CONDITION.
THE LADY PUT HER HOUSE ON THE MARKET, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, IF I AM AND SHE'S WATCHING THIS, I APOLOGIZE, BUT I SAW IT ON THE MARKET RIGHT AFTER WE VOTED ON THIS.
THE RECOMMENDATION TO HER WAS TO INSTALL A DRIVEWAY AND PAVE A WHOLE DRIVEWAY BECAUSE THE HOUSE, THE HOUSE BUILT IN 1950 WAS NOT BUILT WITH OFF STREET PARKING.
SO WHY IS IT THE NEW OWNER OF THE PROPERTY'S INHERITED PROBLEM? AND THEN IF SHE WANTED TO LIVE THERE HERSELF AND MAKE IT OWNER OCCUPIED, GUESS WHAT? SHE DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY TO PUT A DRIVEWAY IN.
SHE COULD PARK ANYWHERE SHE WANTED.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S THE POINT I'M MAKING.
SO WE'RE ONLY PENALIZING SHORT-TERM RENTALS BY THIS CODE.
AND I DON'T TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.
IT'S, IT'S BECAUSE IT'S AN EXPANDED USE.
YOU'VE GOTTA MEET THE REQUIREMENTS.
BUT THE LONG TERM RENTAL ISN'T A CHANGE OF USE.
IF I, IF I RENT OUT MY HOUSE TODAY, THAT'S LONG TERM RENTAL IS NOT A CHANGE OF USE.
DON'T, YOU KNOW, AVERAGE THE ZONING DEPART.
THERE'S NO APPLICATION TO ME THAT MAKES NO SENSE.
BUT THAT IS LITERALLY CHANGING THE USE OF THE HOME FROM WHAT YOU PURCHASED IT EVEN MORE SO THAN A SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
SO WE IT'S NOT CONSIDERED CHANGE TERM RENTAL.
IS FORCING THEM TO PUT THIS INTO A SHORT TERM RENTAL OR GET THIS APPLICATION.
IT'S PROTECTING THEM FROM TENANTS.
IT'S GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO EVICT THEM.
SO I, WELL, LIKE SKIP SAID, I MEAN THERE YOU GO TO, YOU GO TO, YOU DO GO TO PLACES LIKE THAT AND IT'S, I HAD TO PAY FOR PARKING AND YOU HAVE PARK, IT'S LIKE GOOD LUCK ON PARKING.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S, AND EVEN THE OWNERS, RIGHT? WELL TELL IF THEY CHOSE, IF THOSE OWNERS CHOSE TO GO BACK AND LIVE IN THAT HOUSE, THEY'RE THEY'RE IN THE SAME EXACTLY.
THEY'RE IN THE SAME POSITION WHERE CATCHES CATCH CAN.
THE AGENDA ITEM WAS TO DISCUSS.
I I, I'M GONNA, MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE IT'S NOT 30, IT'S A LONG DAY.
BUT I THINK THAT I, I THINK, AND LOOK, I WAS READY, I WAS THINKING THAT WE COULD MAYBE MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO ASK PC TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT AT IT.
BUT I'M GONNA, IT SOUNDS LIKE I, I WANNA MAKE A YES, I DO TOO.
BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S MORE TO IT THAN JUST ASKING.
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK IF WE CAN GET A CONSENSUS ON A VOTE TO SEND IT TO PC, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THAT PC DO NOT CONSIDER EVERY SINGLE BEDROOM FOR A CAR.
I DON'T USE EVERY BEDROOM I RENT FOR A CAR.
THAT'S WHAT I'D ASK THEM TO CHANGE OR LOOK AT.
SO WOULD THAT SOLVE OUR PART OF IT? WOULD THAT SOLVE A PROBLEM FOR THE, FOR PLANNING AND ZONING PART OF IT? WE HAD SOMEBODY TONIGHT WITH TWO BEDROOMS, ONE, TWO PARKING SPACE WITH THREE BEDROOMS. IT COULD.
LAWRENCE SAID IT COULD PARTIALLY SOLVE IT.
IT, I, I'M ONLY ASKING BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE THERE'S MORE INFORMATION LIKE THAT PART THAT GEORGE JUST HAD ADDED INTO IT KIND OF THREW A LITTLE MONKEY WRENCH IN WHAT I WAS THINKING ABOUT.
SO I'M JUST WONDERING IF WE SHOULD BRING THIS BACK AGAIN FOR ANOTHER DISCUSSION BECAUSE IT, I'M NOT SURE THAT WE HAVE, I'M GONNA DISCUSS IT FOR THE 15TH TIME FOR 30 MINUTES AND DO NOTHING ING EASING THE PARKING, EASING THESE PARKING REGULATIONS DEFEATS THE WHOLE POINT THAT I WAS MAKING EARLIER.
BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S JUST GONNA OPEN IT UP TO, TO THE STREET, WHICH IS WHAT SOME HOUSES ONLY HAVE.
WELL, SOME THINGS SHOULDN'T BE, I GUESS SOME THINGS.
SO MY HOUSE THAT I OWN SOME THINGS, SOME THINGS SOME RESIDENCES JUST MAY NOT BE, THEY SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO MAKE IT A SHORT-TERM RENTAL.
IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST HAPPENS TO BE THAT WAY.
I BUT IF I MAKE IT A LONG-TERM RENTAL, I CAN, I CAN
[02:30:01]
THEN IT'S OKAY.WE DON'T OVERSEE OR REGULATE THEM AT ALL.
WE DON'T REGULATE THEM AT ALL FOR PARTIES.
WELL THEN IT'S PUBLIC STREET SHORT TERM RENTAL STREET.
YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU'RE, YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT.
YOU'RE, IT IS CHANGING THE, THE, UM, CHARACTER OF THE, OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
I DON'T SEE THAT, WHAT IT'S DOING.
WHEN I OWN A HOUSE, IT DOES NOT HAVE AN OFF STREET DRIVEWAY.
I ONLY HAVE PUBLIC STREET PARKING AND THEN I DECIDE TO MOVE OUT AND RENT IT, WHICH I'VE DONE IN THE TOWN OF, FOR ROYAL.
AND THEY'RE ALLOWED TO KEEP THE CHARACTER OF THIS COMMUNITY THE EXACT SAME BY PARKING ON THE ROAD.
WELL, WELL, IF THERE IS ROOM FOR SOMEONE TO PUT IN A DRIVEWAY, MAYBE THEY SHOULD.
I MEAN, NO, LOOK, I MEAN, IT'S AN INVESTMENT ON THEIR PART.
YOU DON'T, IT DOESN'T ADD VALUE TO YOUR HOME TO HAVE A DRIVEWAY.
I SEE APPRAISALS EVERY DAY, ALL DAY FOR 10 YEARS.
IT DOES NOT ADD VALUE TO, TO YOUR HOME.
I'M NOT, I'M I'M, IT TAKES AWAY 'CAUSE YOU LOSE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF YOUR YARD.
WELL, MAYBE YOU WANT THE DRIVEWAY ANYMORE THAN YOU WANT THE YARD PEOPLE THAT MOVE TO FRONT ROYAL WANT YARDS AND URBAN AGRICUL.
NO, MY NEIGHBOR, MY NEIGHBOR GOT RID OF HER YARD BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T LIKE TO MOW GRASS.
SO SHE HAS, SHE'S A MINORITY OF FOR THAT.
BUT I'M NOT GONNA GET INTO THE WEEDS OF IT.
I'M JUST SAYING WE ARE, THE HOUSES ARE HERE.
AND THE FIFTIES, THE PEOPLE FROM ABT TECHS CAME IN AND THEY BUILT SEARS BRICK HOMES.
YOU COULD ORDER 'EM OUT OF A MAGAZINE.
AND THEY DID NOT MAKE DRIVEWAYS FOR THEM BECAUSE WE HAD ALL THIS STREET ACCESS PARKING.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT BEING AN ISSUE ON STONEWALL DRIVE ALL THESE PLACES.
BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S OUR, OUR PLACE TO PENALIZE PEOPLE WHO OWNED OR INHERITED A HOUSE THAT DIDN'T HAVE A DRIVEWAY.
BUT THEY CAN HAVE A CRAPPY LONG-TERM RENTER IN THERE WHO SHOOTS UP AND LEAVES NEEDLES IN OUR A PARKS.
'CAUSE THEY DON'T GO TO THE ZONING DEPARTMENT.
BUT A SHORT-TERM RENTER HAS TO GO.
IT'S NOT, THE HOUSE NOT BROUGHT THAT NEEDLE ON.
I MEAN, I MEAN THAT IT WAS A LONG-TERM RENTER.
COUNSEL, WHAT IS WHAT WE JUST, WE NEED TO GIVE DIRECTION, WHETHER IT IS TO DIRECTION TO STAFF TO BRING THIS BACK OR DIRECTION TO STAFF THAT WE COME UP WITH A RESOLUTION TO GO TO PC.
UM, I I I FEEL LIKE WE GOT SOME ADDITIONAL IN, I HONESTLY THOUGHT THAT THIS WOULD BEEN AN EASY FIX, LIKE TO JUST GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE PARKING.
BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE, UM, THAT THERE'S MORE TO IT.
I MEAN, GEORGE BRINGING UP THE OTHER PART.
I MEAN, NOT GEORGE, I'M NOT, I'M NOT A PLANNER.
I KNOW YOU'RE, I'M NOT A PLANNER.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE JUST SOMEBODY TELL US WHAT THE MAGIC WORDS ARE TO FIX IT.
WHAT, WHAT DO JOE, YOU, YOU WERE GONNA SAY SOMETHING? NO, I THINK THAT THE STAFF CAN WORK ON CRAFTING THE LANGUAGE FOR THE PARKING AND WE COULD PUSH IT OUT TO COUNCIL A WEEK BEFORE THE MEETING AND TRY TO GET SOME FEEDBACK, YOU KNOW, BUT YOU KNOW, THE BEST FOR US RIGHT NOW IS TO KIND OF GET A CONSENSUS OF WHAT WE NEED TO PUT IN THAT RESOLUTION FOR.
WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR THE 28TH HERE, ARE WE? NATE
UH, I JUST DON'T, I JUST, UM, I MEAN, AMBER IS RIGHT.
WE'VE BEAT THIS DEAD HORSE OVER THE YEARS, EVEN BEFORE THIS COUNCIL GOT ON HERE.
BUT LIKE I SAID, I FEEL LIKE I THOUGHT IT WAS GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT SIMPLER FIX THAN WHAT IT APPEARS TO BE.
SO, GEORGE, UH, IF, IF JOE, SO YOU'RE SAYING STAFF WANTS TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING, SEND IT OUT TO COUNSEL AND, AND THEN SEE WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE AN APPETITE.
I DON'T, I THINK AUGUST 28TH IS, IS TOO, IS OPT.
I THINK THAT MIGHT NOT BE REALISTIC, BUT IF SOMEBODY ELSE THINKS IT IS, MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO LET US BRING IT BACK IN SEPTEMBER WITH A LITTLE BIT MORE SCOPE ON PARKING AND WHAT WE'VE HEARD TODAY.
AND THEN TRY TO FLESH OUT SOMETHING FOR POSSIBLY A REFERRAL IN SEPTEMBER OR WHEREVER COUNCIL DESIRES TO GO.
SO I THINK THAT'S MORE REALISTIC AND WE COULD BRING IT BACK, UH, ON THE FIRST WORKING SESSION.
BUT YEAH, DECEMBER, ACTUALLY NOT SEPTEMBER 5TH IS LABOR IS LABOR DAY.
SO IT WOULD BE THE, IT WOULD BE THE SIXTH THOUGH.
OH YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT OFF TO ME.
GLAD YOU, GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP.
YEAH, YOU HAVE TO MEET THE, IF YOU MISS, UM, YOUR MEETING NIGHT BECAUSE OF SOMETHING ELSE LIKE COLUMBUS, INDIGENOUS PEOPLE DAY, WHATEVER YOU'RE GONNA CALL IT.
UM, WE'RE GONNA MISS THAT ONE ON THAT MONDAY.
WE HAVE TO DO IT ON THE TUESDAY.
JUST YOU DON'T GET, SO THANK YOU JOE.
AND I THINK THAT'LL GIVE US, YOU KNOW WHAT? WE MIGHT NOT HAVE A QUORUM.
[02:35:01]
YOU'RE GONNA BE GONE.SIX, WE'RE GONNA BE GONE AS LONG AS THE FOUR OF US DON'T GET HIT WITH A ILLNESS.
IT'LL BE ON THE TUESDAY AFTER MEMORIAL.
I THINK THIS ONE COULD BE REALLY FAST.
DON'T SAY THAT IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY FAST.
NO, I'M JUST THINK RESOLUTION.
UM, YEAH, IT'S A PROCLAMATION FOR THE INTERNATIONAL OVERDOSE AWARENESS DAY AND RECOVERY MONTH.
I GUESS, UM, PROBABLY MY QUESTION WOULD BE, DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN ISSUE WITH EITHER THESE TWO ITEMS? NOPE.
ALL RIGHT THEN TINA, THAT WILL BE ON THE AUGUST 28TH MEETING AND I'LL APPROVE THAT PROCLAMATION THEN.
AND, UM, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO READ THAT AND MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE READING THE REVISED ONE.
THAT, UM, WOULD SOMEBODY WILLING TO READ THE REVISED MAYOR? I MOVE THAT TOWN COUNCIL CONVENE A CLOSED MEETINGS PURSUANT TO SECTION 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 1 A, ONE OF THE CODE OF VIRGINIA FOR THE FOLLOWING PURPOSE.
ONE, THE DISCUSSION, CONSIDERATION, ASSIGNMENT, APPOINTMENT PROMOTION, PERFORMANCE, DEMOTION, SALARIES, DISCIPLINING, OR RESIGNATION OF SPECIFIC PUBLIC OFFICERS, APPOINTEES OR EMPLOYEES OF ANY PUBLIC BODY.
MORE SPECIFICALLY, CLERK OF COUNSEL ON APPOINTMENTS TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FRONT ROYAL E D A AND JOINT TOWING ADVISORY BOARD.
OKAY, SO WE'RE GONNA GO INTO CLOSE, UM, EVERYBODY, IF.