[Planning and Zoning Work Session on July 5, 2023.]
[00:00:06]
I CALLED A MEETING TO ORDER OF THE FRONT ROW PLANNING COMMISSION, THIS WORK SESSION FOR WEDNESDAY, JULY THE FIFTH, 2023.
MS. POTTER, COULD YOU GIVE US A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? CHAIRMAN MERCHANT HERE.
VICE CHAIRMAN MARSH, I MEAN, EXCUSE ME.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. HERE WE HAVE A QUORUM, SO WE MAY PROCEED.
WE HAVE THREE ITEMS ON OUR REGULAR BUSINESS AGENDA.
FIRST ITEM NUMBER 2, 3 0 3 30.
A REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW A SHORT TERM RENTAL AT ADAM TWO VIRGINIA AVENUE.
MADAME DIRECTOR OR JOHN, WHO'S, WHO'S GIVEN A REPORT? JOHN, I'LL GIVE REPORT.
22 0 3 30 IS, UH, SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR TERM RENTAL.
IT IS IN THE R THREE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT.
UH, THAT'S THE AERIAL VIEW OF THE LOT THAT HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED IN THE COUNTY'S GIS SYSTEM.
UH, THERE IS A TAX, UH, MAP, UH, LOCATION OF IT ON VIRGINIA AVENUE.
UH, THOSE WERE CONSTRUCTED LAST YEAR.
IT IS FOR AN IN-UNIT OF A FIVE ROW TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT.
UH, THIS ONE HERE ON THE BOTTOM, THERE'S A BLOW UP OF THE, UH, PLAT THAT WAS SUBMITTED.
UH, IT DOES HAVE TWO PARKING SPACES THERE IN THE FRONT SHOWING, UH, RIGHT THERE WITH THE FLAT.
UH, THE REQUEST IS FOR, AND THERE'S A VIEW OF THE TOWN HOME AT, UH, OR THE FRONT VIEW OF IT.
THE PARKING, UH, LOT WAS NOT STRIPED FOR WHATEVER REASON.
YOUR'S SIDE VIEW OF IT, UH, IT HAS TWO PARKING SPACES IN THE FRONT OF THE TOWN HOME.
NO SITE INSPECTION WAS CONDUCTED AT THIS TIME.
UH, THE PROPERTY OWNER WAS UNABLE TO ARRANGE A TIME FOR A SITE VISIT WITH TOWN STAFF.
UH, THAT, UH, INSPECTION WILL BE CONDUCTED NEXT WEEK AT SOME TIME.
ANY QUESTIONS? IT'S FOR PARTIAL RENT OF THE TOWN HOME FOR THREE BEDROOMS, SIX PEOPLE, AND IT WILL BE OWNER OCCUPIED.
SO HOW MANY PARKING SPACES DO THEY NEED FOR THREE BEDROOMS? THEY WOULD, UH, NEED ONE FOR EACH BEDROOM TOTAL OF THREE.
PLUS THE OWNER OCCUPIED FOR A DWELLING UNIT WOULD NEED TWO.
CORRECT? CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.
DON'T, ISN'T THERE OFF STREET PARKING IN THERE IN PALM VIRGINIA? UH, THERE'S OFF STREET PARKING ON STREET, ON STREET.
WE'RE LOOKING AT IT RIGHT NOW.
OH, I'M SORRY THAT THAT'S OFF STREET.
BUT ISN'T THERE ON STREET PARK IN PALM VIRGINIA AS WELL? NO, NOT AT THAT LOCATION.
SO, SO HOW MANY SPACES DO THEY NEED? UH, WELL, IF IT'S UNDER OCCUPIED, HOW MANY ROOMS ARE GONNA BE RENTED OUT? THREE BEDROOMS. WHERE'S THE OTHER ROOM BE OCCUPIED? IN THE, UH, BOTTOM FLOOR? IT'S A BOTTOM FLOOR.
THEY HAVE A BASEMENT AND THEN TWO OTHER FLOORS.
SO THERE, THERE ARE THREE BEDROOMS ARE GONNA RENT OUT? YES.
AND THEY DON'T HAVE THREE SPACES.
RIGHT?
SO LET ME, I'M NOT TRYING TO BELE THIS, BUT, BUT DO WE HAVE, DO WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY IF, IF WE WERE TO, WHETHER WE ARE, IF, IF WE WERE TO AGREE TO FORWARD THIS NOT SAYING WE WERE, WOULD WE BE ABLE TO DO THAT WITH THE CONDITION THAT THEY ARE ONLY ALLOWED ONE PARKING SPACE? UH, WE COULD, BUT AGAIN, WE HAVE TO HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING YET TONIGHT.
WE'RE JUST, I'M JUST, I'M JUST, YEAH.
BUT BEYOND THAT, JUST TO GET ME PREPARED FOR WHAT MAY OR MAY NOT OCCUR.
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE IS TO FIND THE FACTS REGARDING NOT THE ISSUE.
SO THE SHORT TERM RENTAL IS FOR THREE BEDROOMS, AND IT'S GONNA BE OWNER OCCUPIED.
[00:05:01]
IT'S FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.AND IN FACT, WHAT WE HAVE IS, IS, UH, UH, A INVESTMENT PROPERTY.
WELL, MY ONLY, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE HARMFUL OR HURTFUL HERE.
BUT MY CONCERN IS THAT I, I HAVE A PROBLEM MOVING THIS FORWARD WITHOUT SITE INSPECTION.
WITH WITH WHAT? THERE'S BEEN NO SITE INSPECTION.
WE'LL CONDUCT A SITE INSPECTION.
HE WAS ON VACATION DURING THIS TIME, APPARENTLY.
SO, UH, TRYING TO ARRANGE FOR A TIME THAT WOULD ACCOMMODATE US IN TOWN STAFF.
WE WAS NOT ABLE TO WORK THAT OUT PRIOR TO THE NINTH'S MEETING.
BUT THAT WOULD BE BEFORE THE PUBLIC HEARING? YES.
I GAVE HIM A DEADLINE THAT IT WOULD, WILL BE, UH, PRIOR TO JULY 14TH.
THAT'S WHEN YOUR PACKET WOULD GO OUT.
I, IF I'M HEARING YOU CORRECTLY, THEY HAVE TWO SPOTS.
THEY NEED THREE OWNER OCCUPIED.
AM I DOING MY MATH CORRECT? THAT'S HOW, THAT'S SHORT TERM RENTALS ON THE ROOM.
WE CLASSIFY THAT AS LODGING FOR, FOR ONE PER BEDROOM.
BUT WHEN YOU ADD IN, YOU MENTIONED OWNER, THE OWNER OCCUPIED, THAT REQUIRES TWO PER DWELLING UNIT.
SO EITHER ONE SHORT ON PARKING OR TWO SHORT IN PARKING.
SO THE DWELLING UNIT REQUIRES TWO.
I THINK WE HAD DETERMINED PREVIOUSLY THAT WE WOULD USE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR LODGING BOARDING ABOUT BREAKFAST.
THAT'S ONE PARKING SPACE PER ROOM AND AN ADDITIONAL TWO PARKING SPACES.
I THINK WE HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO KIND OF DETERMINE THAT.
SO THEN IT WOULD BE THE DWELLING UNIT REQUIRES TO
SO, SO DO WE NEED TO RECOMMEND THE COUNCIL TO LOOK AT CHANGING THE ORDINANCE ON PARKING? SO TO MAKE IT MORE CLEAR, I THINK WE NEED TO UPDATE 1 48, 8 70 TO INCLUDE PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS, BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF UNCLEAR RIGHT NOW OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE, IF I MAY, OR, SORRY, NOT THE ZONING ORDINANCE, BUT CHAPTER 1 48, UH, USE THE AUTHORITY, UH, THE PLANNING DIRECTOR TO, TO PUT IT IN THE MOST APPROPRIATE CATEGORY IF IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED.
BUT, BUT OUR SHORT TERM RENTAL ORDINANCE, ALL WE SAY IS IT REQUIRES PARKING, DESIGNATED PARKING, CORRECT.
CODE STATES PARKING FOR THE USE SHALL BE LOCATED IN DRIVEWAYS OR OTHER DESIGNATED AND APPROVED PARKING AREAS.
SO FOR, FOR USE AS A TOWNHOUSE TWO SPACES, IT'S ALL THAT IS REQUIRED BY OUR CODE? YES.
NO MATTER HOW MANY ADULTS LIVE IN THE HOUSE OR DRIVERS AS WE ONLY REQUIRE, I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT, BUT AS A PURE RESIDENTIAL USE, CORRECT? YES.
SINCE WE HAVE SHORT TERM RENTALS, THAT PARKING REQUIREMENT, WE'VE DEEMED TO INDICATE THAT EACH BEDROOM REQUIRES ONE SPACE, AND THEN SINCE THEY'RE HOME OCCUPIED, THAT'S AT LEAST ONE, IF NOT TWO SPACES.
SO THIS APPLICATION FAILS TO MEET THAT REQUIREMENT OF DESIGNATED PARKING.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE CONSIDER WHEN WE VOTE ON IT AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING, UM, ON THAT, SO YEP.
THEY CAN'T OBTAIN PARKING ELSEWHERE, BUT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DESIGNATED YEAH.
WITHIN 300 FOOT WALKING DISTANCE OF THE PROPERTY.
BUT WE THEY HAVEN'T DESIGNATED ANY AT THIS TIME? NO.
SO HOW CAN WE GET THIS INFORMATION BEFORE WE AUTHORIZE IT TO GO TO ADVERTISEMENT? YOU ALREADY DID IT RAIN TODAY.
YOU AUTHORIZED IT FOR ADVERTISING IT.
I KNOW WE'VE ALREADY AUTHORIZED IT, BUT, BUT SOMEBODY DIDN'T LOOK AT THE APPLICATION.
YOU CAN HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND YOU CAN SAY THAT YOU DON'T RECOMMEND APPROVAL.
BUT IF IT, IF IT, IF THE APPLICATION DOESN'T MEET OUR ORDINANCE, WHY ARE WE ACCEPTING A APPLICATION THAT DOESN'T MEET OUR ORDINANCE? IT'S NOT STAFF'S DETERMINATION TO LIKE VOTE ON AN APPLICATION.
SO IT'S OUR JOB TO TAKE THE APPLICATION.
WE'RE NOT VOTING ON, ON, ON WHETHER THE USE IS APPROPRIATE.
IT'S NOT UP TO US TO MAKE THAT.
YEAH, I MEAN, IT'S US STERILE.
IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO LOOK AT THE APPLICATION.
[00:10:01]
A STAFF'S JOB.I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO LOOK AT THE APPLICATION.
WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT EVEN IF I THINK SOMETHING IS NOT THE, IF I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS AN APPROPRIATE USE, THAT DOESN'T MATTER.
THE USE IS, IS DETERMINE APPROPRIATE.
WHETHER, WHETHER YOU THINK THAT THIS SHOULD BE, WHETHER IT MEET OUR PARKING REQUIREMENTS IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.
WELL, WOULDN'T THAT BE THE RECOMMENDATION OF STAFF THEN AT THIS POINT? TO, TO DENY.
I'M JUST TRYING TO SAVE THE APPLICANT MONEY THAT IF THE APPLICATION DOESN'T MEET THE REQUIREMENTS, BUT ONCE THEY CHOOSE TO SUBMIT THE APPLICATION, AND THEN WE TAKE IT IN, WE TAKE THAT PAYMENT.
IF WE THEN REVIEW IT AND SAY, HEY, YOU DON'T HAVE SUFFICIENT PARKING, WE DON'T REFUND THEIR MONEY.
IT'S, BUT WE HAVE SEVEN DAYS TO REVIEW IT BEFORE WE DEEM THAT THE APPLICATION IS COMPLETE.
HOWEVER, THE CODE STATES FOR SHORT TERM RENTALS, PARKING FOR USE, SHALL BE LOCATED IN DRIVEWAYS OR OTHER DESIGNATED AND APPROVED PARKING AREAS.
I UNDERSTAND, BUT YOU SAID THAT THEY HAVE NO OTHER DESIGNATED PARKING AREA AT THIS TIME.
THEY HAVE NOT SUBMITTED ANYTHING TO US.
THEN WE DON'T HAVE, THEN WE DON'T HAVE, AND IF SOMETHING CHANGES BY THE TIME YOU HAVE THE PUBLIC, I MEAN, YOU STILL HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
WE CAN IF THEY PROVIDE US NEW INFORMATION IN THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO.
WELL, I I'M JUST WORRIED THAT IF WE DENY IT AND COUNSEL DENIES IT FOR THE PARKING, THEN THEY CAN'T BRING IT BACK FOR A YEAR.
YEAH, IT, IT LOOKS LIKE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHECK OFF THE PARKING WHEN THEY BRING THE APPLICATION IN, AND IF IT'S NOT COMPLETE, TELL 'EM AT THAT POINT THAT YOU DON'T MAKE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE FEES.
AND, AND WE, AND WE SPEND THE MONEY ON AN, ON AN APPLICATION ADVERTISEMENT THAT WE DON'T NEED.
I ALSO THINK THAT WE RECOMMEND, UH, YOU KNOW, UPDATING THE CODE YEAH.
TO INCLUDE A SHORT TERM RENTAL CATEGORY IN 1 48, 8 70.
WELL, WE'LL MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.
SO WE, WE WILL HOLD THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THAT, ON WHAT IS OUR NEXT MEETING? QUICK QUESTION.
DO WE KNOW IF IT'S BEEN LINE AND THERE IS ONLY TWO SPOTS? I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE PICTURE DOESN'T SHOW IT, IT WAS NOT LINED AS OF THREE 30 THIS AFTERNOON.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON THIS APPLICATION? OKAY.
UH, NEXT ITEM NUMBER 23 0 3 81.
THIS IS A REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A TWO DWELLING UNIT TO BE LOCATED ON THE GROUND FLOOR AT 1127 NORTH ROYAL.
PROBABLY ZONE C ONE, JOHN, I ASSUME YOU'RE ON, ON THE PODIUM AGAIN.
SO, SPECIAL USE PERMIT 22 0 0 3 81 SUBMITTED BY INDEPENDENT CIVILITY.
STEP USE PERMIT FOR TWO GROUND FLOOR DWELLING UNITS AT 1127 NORTH ROYAL AVENUE, IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP 2083 DASH FIVE, BL 24 AND 25.
IT IS ZONE C ONE COMMUNITY DIS, UH, BUSINESS DISTRICT.
IT IS LOCATED IN THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR.
UH, THE STRUCTURE CURRENTLY HAS THREE DWELLING UNITS.
THREE, THUS REQUIRING SIX PARKING SPACES PER TOWN CODE 1 48, 8 70.
UH, THE APPLICANT HAS SUBMITTED THE REQUIRED PLAT THAT WE RECEIVED THIS AFTERNOON AT FOUR 30, SHOWING THE EXISTING IMPROVEMENTS INCLUDING THE GRAVEL DRIVE AND PARKING AREA.
THERE IS THE TAX MAP NUMBER THERE AT 1127 NORTH ROYAL.
THERE IS THE PLAT THAT WAS SUBMITTED THIS AFTERNOON SHOWING THE PARKING AREA HERE WITH THE DASH LINE HERE IN THE BACK OF THE STRUCTURE.
THAT'S THE, UH, LEFT FRONT VIEW OF THE PROPERTY WITH THE DRIVEWAY LOCATED ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE AND THE VIEW, UH, OF THE REAR OF THE GRAVEL PARKING AREA.
UH, DWELLING UNITS ARE DEFINED AS ONE ROOM OR ROOMS CONNECTED TOGETHER, CONSTITUTING A SEPARATE INDEPENDENT HOUSEKEEPING ESTABLISHMENT FOR OWNER OCCUPANCY OR RENTAL OR LEASE ON A WEEKLY, MONTHLY, OR LONGER, LONGER BASIS.
AND PHYSICALLY SEPARATED FROM ANY OTHER ROOMS OR DWELLING UNITS, WHICH MAY BE IN THE SAME STRUCTURE AND CONTAINING INDEPENDENT COOKING AND SLEEPING FACILITIES AND CONTAIN CONTAINING NOT LESS THAN 600 SQUARE FEET OF RESIDENTIAL FLOOR AREA.
SUCH UNITS SHALL MEET REQUIREMENTS
[00:15:01]
OF BUILDING CODE OF THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL.UH, WE DID A LITTLE RESEARCH AND ACCORDING TO BAMA NET, THAT'S THE VIRGINIA MASS APPRAISAL NETWORK.
THE STRUCTURE DOES HAVE 1,476 SQUARE FEET OF GROSS FLOOR AREA.
INFORMATION SUPPLIED BY THE APPLICANT HAS UNIT ONE THAT'S ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR AS APPROXIMATELY 856 SQUARE FEET OF RESIDENTIAL FLOOR AREA.
AND UNIT THREE HAVING APPROXIMATELY 620.
AND THERE'S A VIEW FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STRUCTURE.
UH, WE WAS ABLE TO OBTAIN INFORMATION THAT THIS WAS ADVERTISED AS A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING, UH, UPON RESEARCH.
WE ALSO ESTABLISHED THAT THE, UH, THREE EXISTING UNITS DID NOT, UH, OBTAIN A ZONING PERMIT AND OR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FROM THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL NOR A BUILDING PERMIT FROM WARREN COUNTY.
UH, WE DISCOVERED THIS DURING A, DURING A PROPERTY MAINTENANCE, UH, INSPECTION, THAT THE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING WAS CONVERTED INTO THREE DWELLING UNITS, AND THEY HAVE APPLIED FOR SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO HAVE THE DWELLING UNITS ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR.
ANY QUESTIONS? SO, AND THAT'S CORRECT.
THEY HAVE NOT OBTAINED ANY PERMITS FOR THE STRUCTURE AS IT IS RESIDENTIAL.
SO DOES IT MEAN OUR CODE? HE'S ABOUT TO REPEAT WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
WELL, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? HOLD ON, HOLD ON.
IT MEETS THE SIZE REQUIREMENTS FOR DWELLING UNITS.
DWELLING UNITS HAVE TO BE AT LEAST 600 SQUARE FEET, AND THEN EACH DWELLING UNIT NEEDS TO HAVE TWO PARKING SPACES ON SITE.
SO THAT WOULD MEAN SIX PARKING SPACES.
AND THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE IS WHAT JOHN, UH, ACCORDING TO BANET, WHEN WE DID THE RESEARCH, 1476 SQUARE FOOT OF ROSE FLOOR AREA, UH, YOU HAD A PERMIT TO DO IT TODAY.
SO WE DID DETERMINE THE ONE HAS ABOUT 856 AND THE OTHER ONE HAS SIX 20.
SO BOTH OF THOSE ARE OVER TO 600 MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS.
YEAH, THAT'S THE UH, SO HOW MUCH DOES THE THIRD ONE, UH, THE THIRD ONE IS IN, UH, ONE THE, THE SECOND FLOOR ON THE ENTIRE TOP.
SO YOU'RE NOT, THAT IS ALLOWED TO BE ON THE, UH, UPPER FLOOR.
YOU'RE HERE TONIGHT FOR THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THE GROUND FLOOR DWELLING UNITS.
THIS IS IN A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT.
SO THE INTENT SHOULD BE THAT THIS SHOULD BE EVENTUALLY CONVERTED TO A COMMERCIAL USE, NOT RESIDE USE.
SO, SO IT DOES MAKE OUR BODY'S PERMISSION, OUR FUTURE COMP PLAN, GIVE IT ITS LOCATION NEXT TO THAT FURNITURE STORE.
IT'S NOT A REALLY ATTRACTIVE, WHICH CLEARLY WAS THE ORIGINAL USE OF THE PROPERTY.
AND WAS ADVERTISED AS SUCH PRIOR TO THE, UH, CURRENT OWNERSHIP OF IT IN THE REAL ESTATE LISTING, ADVERTISED IT AS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME.
SO WITH THIS DISCOVERY, WHAT IS THE LEGAL IMPLICATIONS? I'M LISTENING AND LEARNING ALONG.
UM, IF, IF PLANNING AND ZONING BRINGS AN ISSUE TO ME, I'LL, GIVEN AN OPINION, BUT, UM, I'M REALLY, I HAVEN'T REVIEWED IT.
ESSENTIALLY THEY WOULD HAVE TO CONVERT IT BACK TO SINGLE FAMILY.
THE, THE USE HERE WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED.
THEY'D NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAVE THE APARTMENT, SORRY, DWELLING UNIT ON THE GROUND FLOOR.
IF WE EVENTUALLY DENIED THIS, I'M NOT SAYING WE WANT, IF WE HYPOTHETICALLY, EVENTUALLY DENIED THIS, DO WE THEN, OR DO WE JUST ASSUME THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THEY NEED TO GO BUY OUR CODE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE IT WHAT THEY WANT IT TO BE INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING THEY'RE GONNA BILL WHATEVER THE HECK THEY WANT, WHICH THEY APPARENTLY HAVE ALREADY DONE THROUGH THE CODE ENFORCEMENT PROCESS? ACTUALLY, WE'D HAVE TO GO BACK OUT AND DO AN INSPECTION.
MAKE IT CONVERTED TO, AND THEN LET US, AND THEN LET US KNOW USE.
WELL, AT THAT POINT, IT'S NOT IN YOUR HANDS ANYMORE.
HAS IT BEEN IN THE PAST? UH, I BELIEVE THE RESEARCH WE'VE CAME UP WITH SINCE 2015, NO.
SO IT'S BEEN OUT OF CODE COMPLIANCE FOR EIGHT YEARS.
WELL, WE DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHEN THE RENOVATIONS
[00:20:01]
OCCURRED.WE KNOW THAT IT WAS A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING IN 2015 AND IN 2023 IT IS NOT, AND THEY OBTAINED NO PERMITS TO DO ANY RENOVATIONS.
IT SEEMED TO ME THAT THAT ISSUE HAS TO BE RESOLVED BEFORE WE COULD EVER CONSIDER, WELL, YOU'RE THE, YOU'RE A SOLUTION.
YOU'RE A POSSIBLE AVENUE FOR A SOLUTION BECAUSE IF THEY GET THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THIS, THEN THEY'RE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE OR ALLOWED TO HAVE THAT AS TWO DWELLING UNITS ON THE GROUND FLOOR.
HAVE THEY BEEN IN COMMUNICATION WITH THE ZONING OFFICE AT ALL? YEAH, THEY, THAT'S WHY THEY SUBMITTED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO DO THIS ON THE GROUND FLOOR.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO WORK A SOLUTION OUT FOR THEM BASED ON THE EXISTING CONDITIONS OF THE STRUCTURE AND BE COMPLIANT WITH THE CODE.
SO THEY MEET THE SIZE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE DWELLING UNITS AND THE PARKING SPACES.
UM, ARE THEY, HOW MANY DO YOU THINK THEY ACTUALLY, CAN YOU COME BACK, SLIDE PLEASE.
UH, THE BACK IS A GRAVEL AREA THERE.
UH, ACCORDING THE BEST, UH, THAT I COULD COME UP WITH ON A SHORT NOTICE OF THE SUBMITTAL OF THE PLAT, UH, THE, UH, EDGE OF THE GRAVEL HERE BY THIS, UH, VEHICLE PARKED HERE, GOING TO THE STEPS THERE, UH, HAS APPROXIMATELY 21 FEET OF DISTANCE IN THAT, UM, UH, TOWN CODE REQUIRES 12 FEET FOR A ONE-WAY TRAVEL LANE.
AND WITH A 30 DEGREE ANGLE PARKING, WHICH GIVES YOU THE SMALLEST SIZE OF A PARKING AREA, THEY WOULD NEED AN ADDITIONAL, UH, BASICALLY 17 FEET, MEANING THE AREA FROM THE HOUSE TO THE EDGE OF THE PARKING NEEDS TO BE ABOUT 29 FEET.
WHERE WERE DID YOU TAKE THIS PICTURE? YES.
WHERE WERE YOU STANDING WHEN YOU TOOK THE PICTURE? WHAT'S ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY? I'M TAKING A YES.
THEY, THEY OWN ANOTHER PROPERTY NEXT TO IT.
WELL, THIS IS NOT A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
PRESENTLY, IT'S NOT GOING, THAT'S NOT THEIR APPLICATION.
IT'S FOR, UH, DWELLING UNITS ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR, FLOORING UNITS ON THE GROUND FLOOR.
BUT THEY CAN HAVE A, THEY CAN OBTAIN OTHER PARKING MM-HMM.
WITHIN 300 FOOT WALKING DISTANCE OF THIS STRUCTURE.
AND THAT OTHER PARKING IS THEIR ADJACENT PROPERTY THEY NEED TO OBTAIN.
EITHER BY LEASE AND THEIR TOWN CODE SPECIFIES WHEN YOU OBTAIN PARKING, THAT IS NOT ON YOUR PROPERTY.
THERE'S A STIPULATION HOW THEY OBTAIN PARKING TO ACCOMMODATE THE PARKING REQUIREMENT.
JUST BECAUSE THEY OWN THE PROPERTY NEXT DOOR DOES NOT MAKE THAT LEGAL PARKING AT LEASE TO THEMSELVES.
THE PARKING SPACES, ESSENTIALLY, IF THAT PROPERTY IS COMPLIANT WITH THE PARKING REGULATIONS ALSO, WHAT IS THE PROPERTY NEXT DOOR? ANOTHER HOUSE? YES.
IT'S A TOWNHOUSE, ISN'T IT? THE ONE, UH, MAYBE, YEAH.
SO FOR ONE WAY TRAFFIC AND A 30 DEGREE ANGLE PARKING AT DARRELL.
UH, SO THEY HAVE A 90 DEGREE PARKING.
IF THEY GET 90 DEGREE PARKING, UH, YOU KNOW, THE TRAVEL WAY HAS TO BE A LOT LARGER.
SO YOU GO DOWN TO 60 OR 45 OR 30 DEGREE, 30 DEGREE ANGLE PARKING GIVES YOU THE SMALLEST WIDTH OF THE PARKING LOT.
NOW, THE FIRST PICTURE LOOKS LIKE THERE'S PARKING ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE HOUSE, IS THAT THERE'S A DRIVEWAY THERE.
UM, SO YOU COULD HAVE, UH, THERE'S ENOUGH ROOM TO PUT PARKING SPACES THERE, BUT THE CARS WOULD BE LINED UP BUMPER TO BUMPER, BUMPER TO BUMPER, AND NO WAY TO EXIT.
SO THAT WOULD NOT COUNT AS OUR PARKING REQUIREMENTS THEN, THEN TO BE ABLE TO ENTER AND EXIT, THEN THERE WOULD ONLY BE ONE.
YOU COULDN'T PARK 'EM THOSE TO TELL.
IF, IF WE HYPOTHETICALLY DOWN THE ROAD, DENY THIS BASED UPON EVERYTHING WE SAID, WOULD THEY THEN HAVE THE OPTION OF GOING BACK AND GETTING THE PERMITS TO, I HATE TO SAY BILL, BUT GET APPROVED WHAT THEY BUILT WITHOUT PERMISSION OR HOW WOULD THAT NO, NO.
YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, THE MANNER BEFORE YOU IS TO HAVE DWELLING UNITS THAT WERE ALREADY CREATED IN THE STRUCTURE.
[00:25:01]
CREATED THE DWELLING.THEY'VE ALREADY CREATED WITHOUT PERMISSION, WITHOUT PERMITS FROM THE TOWN OR THE COUNTY.
UH, SO IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW THEY GOT THE, WE JUST HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.
WE, WE, WE TRIED TO FIND A SOLUTION FOR THEM TO BE COMPLIANT.
SO WITH A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THEY CAN HAVE DWELLING UNITS ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR.
MAYBE THE ISSUE, OTHER ISSUE IS HAND IS TO HOW TO ACCOMMODATE THEIR PARKING ISSUE.
AND, AND THE APPLICANT DID NOT SUBMIT A PARKING PLAN, WHICH WE NORMALLY REQUIRE A DIMENSIONAL PLAN WITH A SPECIAL USE REQUEST.
WE REQUIRE A PLAT, THE PLANT OR IMPROVEMENT SURVEY, WHICH THEY DID SUBMIT AT FOUR 30.
BUT, BUT NORMALLY WE GET A PLA THAT SHOWS THE PROPOSED PARKING NORMALLY.
JOHN, MAY I TALK ABOUT THIS PLAT WE HAVE IN FRONT OF US WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU TOOK THE PICTURE AND I, I CAN'T SHOW YOU'ALL WHAT I'M ASKING HIM, BUT YOU WERE STANDING APPROXIMATELY OVER HERE SOMEWHERE.
YOU SHOW IT UP ON THE SCREEN IF YOU WANT EVERYBODY TO SEE IT.
THE PLAT RIGHT? YOU WERE, GO ON FURTHER.
IT'S THE OTHER PROPERTY, CONNIE, UH, IT'S HERFORD AVENUE.
SO DO WE HAVE THIS ON THE SLIDE? THERE WE GO.
SO YOU WERE STANDING SOMEWHERE IN THIS GENERAL VICINITY AND TOOK A PICTURE? YES.
IS IT FEASIBLE, AND MAYBE I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER, TO EXTEND THIS LOT BACK OR DOES THAT GO DOWN OR RAVINE OR IT, IT HAS A SIGNIFICANT DROP OFF THERE.
THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT, BASED ON THE PROPERTY NEXT TO IT, BUT, OKAY.
SO, SO FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES, WE NEED A DIMENSIONAL DRAWING THAT SHOWS THE PARKING, UH, THE STAFF HAS INDICATED WE NEED TO TRAVEL WITH.
THE PARKING HAS TO BE SO MANY FEET FROM THE BUILDING.
AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE ENTRANCE IS NOT EVEN ON THIS LOT.
I WOULD SAY MOST OF IT IS NOT ON THE LOT.
UM, I BELIEVE WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE, WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE, IN THE HISTORY OF IT, AT ONE TIME, THE DRIVEWAY CAME IN HERE AND THEY LOOKED LIKE THERE WAS A GARAGE BACK HERE.
THE DRIVEWAY ON THE LEFT, IF YOU'RE FACING THE HOUSE, IS ON THE PROPERTY, CORRECT? CORRECT.
IT'S BARELY, THE END HAS MAYBE SIX FEET ON TRAJECTORY.
WELL, I'M, I'M NOT HAPPY UNTIL I SEE A DIMENSIONAL DRAWING OF THAT'S WHAT MOVE PULL IT.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO REQUEST FROM THE APPLICANT? WOULD THEY? WHAT'S THAT? WOULD YOU LIKE TO REQUEST THAT FROM THE APPLICANT? WELL, I'M NOT SURE.
CAN WE MAKE REQUESTS OUT OF THIS MEETING HERE? WE'RE JUST HERE TO REVIEW YOUR APPLICATION, UH, PLANNING DIRECTLY RELAY BACK TO THE, THE APPLICANT THAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE A DIMENSIONAL DRAWING ON PARKING.
UH, WILL THEY NEED A LOT CONSOLIDATION, MAKE EVERYBODY ELSE DO A LOT CONSOLIDATION, CORRECT? NO.
THAT'S NOT A, THAT'S NOT A FAIR STATEMENT.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? SO, SO YOUR ANSWER IS NO, THEY DO NOT NEED, THEY DO NOT NEED A, NOT CONSOLIDATION.
THE WORK THAT WAS DONE IS IN THE INTERIOR OF THE DWELLING OF THE STRUCTURE E EXCEPT FOR THE PARKING.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? SO WE'LL HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING AT OUR NEXT REGULAR MEETING.
UH, SPECIAL OR REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW A SHORT TERM RENTAL LOCATED AT FOUR 17 KIRK AVENUE PROPERTY IS OWNED, JOHN AND LIKE US IN PERMIT 22 0 0 3 87, UH, SUBMITTED BY MESA ROSE QUAR.
AND SHE IS PRESENT HERE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR HER.
UH, REQUEST THAT FOUR 17 CURB FOOT SHORT TERM RENTAL.
[00:30:02]
DASH SEVEN LOTS, 41 AND 42.AGAIN, THE R ONE RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT, THE REQUEST IS FOR A WHOLE HOUSE RENTAL OF A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING WITH TWO BEDROOMS, FOUR PEOPLE.
THERE'S A ZONING, UH, CLASSIFICATION FOR THE LOT.
THERE IS THE, UH, PLAT THAT WAS SUPPLIED, UH, SHOWING THE HOUSE, UH, THE LOT AND THE AREA THAT'S FENCE IN THERE ON KIRKWOOD AVENUE.
UH, THE SITE INSPECTION WAS CONDUCTED ON JUNE 26TH AND WAS FOUND IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH THE APPLICATION PARKING.
WRONG BUILDING, BUT YEAH, WE'RE WRONG.
MY EYES ARE ALREADY CROSSED ON THAT ONE.
I MUST THE WRONG PHOTOGRAPH IN THERE.
AND YOU HAVE THE, UH, TWO PHOTOGRAPHS IN THERE, CONNIE.
OOPS, I HAVE WHAT YOU HAVE THAT FOUR 17, THAT'S THE, UH, I PUT IN THE CURB FOOT AVENUE PICTURE.
THIS YOUR HOUSE, MA'AM? YES, SIR.
IF YOU LOOK ON YOUR PHOTOGRAPH.
UH, PARKING IS AVAILABLE ON THE STREET.
THE PROPERTY DOES NOT HAVE A DRIVEWAY NOR A DRIVEWAY APRON TO ACCOMMODATE A DRIVEWAY.
UH, AND THAT IS ADDRESSED IN THE MANAGEMENT PLAN.
HE REVIEWED THE MANAGEMENT PLAN.
UH, THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS, UH, MADE A CONDITION THAT THEY ARE TO PARK IN FRONT OF THE STRUCTURE IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, ON THE STREET AS, UH, THEY DO NOW PRESENTLY.
AS YOU REVIEW THE MANAGEMENT PLAN, THEY SPEAK OF THAT IN THE MANAGEMENT PLAN, THAT PARKING HAS TO BE LIMITED TO THE FRONT OF THE LOT IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, LIMITED TO TWO VEHICLE AND LIMITED TO TWO VEHICLES.
THEY, SO THE DESIGNATED PARKING IS, IS ON THE STREET? YES.
THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY OFF STREET PARKING.
THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY OFF STREET PARKING, AND THEY DESIGNATE ALL PUBLIC PARKING FOR THEIR USE THAT I CAN WEIGH IN ON.
WHAT'S THAT? THAT I CAN WEIGH IN ON.
NO, I MEAN, THAT WOULD RENDER MOVE THE ENTIRE PARKING ORDINANCE.
WELL, I I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD, BUT I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE CASE WE HAD ON CHESTER STREET.
WELL, YOU'RE SHAKING SHAKING YOUR HEAD NO.
UH, THAT YELLOW BUILDING, UM, THE DIFFERENT BUILDING BESIDE THE BARBER SHOP OR WHATEVER YEAH.
OH, THE, UM, THEY GOT A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
THAT WASN'T THE SHORT TERM RENTAL.
BUT YOU HAVE ALL STREET, YOU HAVE ALL STREET PARK IN THERE TOO.
I, I THOUGHT THAT THAT WAS THE ISSUE WITH CHESTER STREET AND WE LOOKED AT IT.
YES, WE HAVE THE TOWN LOT RIGHT THERE.
AND THERE SEEMED TO BE AN ABUNDANCE OF PARK.
AND WHEN I HEAR OUR ATTORNEY IS SAYING IS YOU COULD DESIGNATE ANY TWO PUBLIC SPOTS IN TOWN IF, IF THAT WAS ALLOWED, RIGHT? I MEAN, YOU COULD SAY, I'VE GOT TWO SPOTS DOWN IN FRONT OF THE SCHOOL.
IF, IF IF PUBLIC OR ON STREET PARKING, SATISFIED PARKING REQUIREMENTS, YOU WOULDN'T NEED A PARKING ORDINANCE.
I THINK THE OTHER, UH, SHORT TERM RENTAL YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT IS ON, UH, IS THAT ON LEE, UH, LEE STREET? I THINK ON LEE STREET THAT DID NOT HAVE SAME SCENARIO AS THIS.
EVERYBODY PARKED ON THE STREET, BUT THEY HAD AN ALLEY.
UM, THEY HAD A DRI THEY HAD A APRON CUT TO PUT A DRIVEWAY IN.
UH, BUT, UH, IT WAS NOT, IT WAS DETERMINED THAT, UH, THEY COULD PARK ON THE STREET.
TOWN COUNCIL SAID THAT THEY COULD PARK ON THE STREET TO SATISFY THE PARKING REQUIREMENT.
BUT, BUT OUR ORDINANCE DOESN'T ALLOW THAT.
OUR ORDINANCE REQUIRES THAT THEY HAVE ON SITE PARKING.
AND THIS SITE DOESN'T, UH, WHEN I DROVE
[00:35:01]
BY THE SITE, ALL THE OTHER LOTS OUT THERE DID HAVE ALL STREET PARKING.IF, IF ANYBODY RODE BY THE SITE HD, YOU HAVE A PICTURE.
I HAD A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT.
WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO SPEAK? PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND STAND UP.
WE'VE, MR. WILLIAMS HAS A QUESTION FOR MY, OKAY.
WAS THE QUESTION IT WAS, YOU HAD MENTIONED, IN ORDER TO MINIMIZE THE POSSIBILITY OF THE HOUSE BEING USED FOR PARTIES, A TWO NIGHT MINIMUM STAY IS REQUIRED AND ENFORCE BY EVOL DURING THE BOOKING PROCESS.
BUT MY QUESTION IS, IS THERE A MAXIMUM STAY? UH, MAXIMUM STAY WOULD BE LESS THAN 30.
IT'S NO LONGER, HUH? NO LONGER SHORT TERM.
HAS THIS BEEN A SINGLE FAMILY HOME PRIOR TO THIS? UM, YES MA'AM.
I JUST, I JUST BOUGHT THE HOME RECENTLY.
UM, AND I'VE BEEN LIVING IN IT EVERY SINGLE TIME, BUT I, I GOT INTO VETERINARY SCHOOL, SO I'M GONNA A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
AND SO YOU'VE PARKED ON THE STREET AND EVERYBODY IN THAT LOT PARKS ON THE STREET.
THERE A LOT OF THE HOUSES HAVE, UM, PARKING LOTS, BUT THEY ALSO PARK ON THE STREET.
IT'S A RATHER CONGESTED AREA SOMETIMES.
THE ONLY PROBLEM OF ALLOWING, IN MY OPINION, ALLOWING THE STREET TO BE USED FOR PARKING FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
WHAT IF SOMEBODY ELSE PARKS IN FROM ACROSS THE STREET? I MEAN, WE CAN'T GO OUT AND MAKE A MOVE.
AND IF WE HAVE A REQUIREMENT THAT THEY'RE ONLY ALLOWED TO PARK IN FRONT OF THE STREET, WHAT IF IT'S ALREADY OCCUPIED? THAT'S, THEY'RE TOUGH LUCK.
SO AGAIN, UM, STAFF HASN'T WRITTEN A RECOMMENDATION YET FOR ANY OF THESE RIGHT.
NOMINATION SHE TAKE DOWN PARK.
Y'ALL DONE, DOES SHE HAVE A CURB? SORRY, I I HADN'T SEEN THE PICTURE QUESTION.
WATER BODY OR JUST FOR Y'ALL? SORRY.
THERE'S NO CUTOUT FOR HER DRIVEWAY, UH, HAS BEEN, WAS INSTALLED THE ONE ON, UH, LEE STREET, I BELIEVE THAT ONE DID HAVE A CURB CUT, UH, TALKING ABOUT SIMILAR, UM, APPLICATIONS STREET, WE HAD THEM, THEY HAD TO GET A SPECIAL EXCEPTION TO WAIVE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS CORRECT.
SO I, I TAKE IT YOU HAVE NO DESIRE TO BUILD A DRIVEWAY.
UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A CONSTANT THREAD GOING THROUGH EVERY APPLICATION TONIGHT.
PARKING, HOW CAN WE, UH, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO TO OUR ORDINANCES TO MAKE PARKING? WE NEED TO CREATE A SPECIAL, OR WE NEED TO CREATE A CATEGORY FOR SHORT TERM RENTAL PARKING IN 1 48 ACRES.
UH, BUT CURRENTLY, IF SOMEBODY COMES IN RIGHT NOW WITH A SHORT TERM RENTAL APPLICATION, SUCH AS OUR APPLICANT IN THIS CASE, UH, WE DON'T TELL THEM THAT THEY DON'T MEET THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS WHEN THEY APPLY.
I MEAN, WE, WE STILL HAVE TO REVIEW IT ONCE WE TAKE THE APPLICATIONS IN.
IT'S GOING INTO ONE STAFF MEMBER, THEY'RE PUTTING IT INTO THE COMPUTER, AND THEN IT'S GETTING ROUTED TO OTHER STAFF MEMBERS, AND THEN IT GETS BROUGHT TO THE BOARD.
WAS THERE ANY WAY WHEN THEY APPLY FOR THE APPLICATION THAT, THAT THEY CAN HAVE A CHECKBOX ON THE APPLICATION THAT SAYS PARKING IS REQUIRED? WE HAVE SECTION ON THE APPLICATION THAT THEY HAVE TO PUT THE AMOUNT OF PARKING ON, ON SITE, OR, SORRY, OFF STREET PARKING THAT THEY HAVE ON SITE.
I THINK THE THING IS, THE SHORT TERM RENTAL IS NOT IN THE PARKING PART OF THE CODE OKAY.
BECAUSE IT'S A NEW USE AND WE HAVEN'T COMPREHENSIVELY UPDATED THE ENTIRE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE.
WELL, IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM FAIR TO AN APPLICANT IF WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PARKING IS WHEN THEY COME IN, BUT WE DETERMINE IT TO BE SOMETHING THEY'RE NOT EXPECTING AFTERWARDS.
THE ORDINANCE DOES AUTHORIZE ALLOW HER TO MAKE A DETERMINATION TO DETERMINE WHICH CATEGORY MOST CLOSELY FITS.
IF IT'S NOT SPECIFICALLY DESCRIBED.
SO, SO IT'S YOUR CALL, BUT WITH OUR SHORT TERM RENTAL ORDINANCE, WE DO HAVE THAT SECTION THAT SAYS THAT IT'S GOTTA BE AN APPROVED AND DESIGNATED PARKING AREAS.
SO THAT SAYS THERE'S GOTTA BE PARKING SOMEWHERE, WHICH IS WHY WE THEN OKAY.
[00:40:01]
FOR THE APPLICANT OR STAFF? UH, AND I ASSUME AGAIN, YOU'LL HAVE A RECOMMENDATION STAFF REPORT RECOMMENDATION, SO WHETHER IT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OR NOT.CAUSE UM, I WOULD THINK IT'D BE DIFFICULT TO PARK THESE VEHICLES ON THE STREET, UH, FOR A SHORT TERM RENTAL.
THAT UNIT THIS SIZE THAT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE MULTIPLE OR I, I CAN'T SEE WHAT YOU DONE TOO.
BUT AGAIN, I'LL, I'LL PUT IT IN THE REPORT.
ATTORNEY'S, YOURS SAYS IS YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DETERMINE WHAT'S APPROPRIATE AND WHAT'S NOT.
I ASK THE APPLICANT A QUESTION AGAIN.
WHERE DO YOU PARK? I PARK ON THE STREET AND I'VE NEVER HAD TO PARK ANYWHERE ELSE.
DO YOU EVER HAVE FRIENDS OR FAMILY VISIT? I DO.
AND DO THEY EVER HAVE PROBLEM FINDING PLACE PARK? YES.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? FORS? ALRIGHT, WE'LL GO TO THE PUBLIC HEARING WITH THIS INFORMATION.
ALRIGHT, THAT'S ALL FOR OUR REGULAR BUSINESS.
UH, THE OTHER ITEM TONIGHT, UH, ASSUME LAUREN, YOU'RE GONNA BE GIVING, THIS IS THE, UH, PERFORMANCE STANDARDS FOR URBAN AG AGRICULTURAL.
OR CHICKENS? CHICKENS, CHICKEN, CHICKENS, BEANS.
YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY RABBITS.
YOU WOULD JUST HOP THROUGH THE VILLAGE, MAN.
LIKE, IT'S LIKE WE'RE, WE'RE BREEDING THEM THERE.
IF Y'ALL WANT SOME FRESH GROUNDHOG MEAT, COME TO MY HOUSE.
I GOT GROUNDHOGS OUT TO WAZOO RABBIT IN TOWN.
YOU CAN'T KILL PRINTERS IN TOWN.
SEE IF THAT, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'LL, THEY DON'T NEED TO.
ALRIGHT, SO COUNCIL HAS REQUESTED THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION TAKE UP AN A TEXT MESSAGE FOR THE URBAN AG SECTION OF 1 75.
SO RIGHT NOW WE REQUIRE A ZONING ORDINANCE FOR THE KEEPING OF ANIMALS ON A LOT LESS THAN ONE ACRE, WHICH IS HONESTLY MOST OF THE LOTS IN TOWN.
SO AT THIS TIME, WE ALLOW NO MORE THAN SIX CHICKENS, RABBITS OR BEE HUTS, UM, ON ANY GIVEN PROPERTY.
UM, THEY HAVE TO SUBMIT A MANAGEMENT PLAN AND THEN STAFF PERFORMS ANNUAL INSPECTION ON THESE, UM, ON THE, LIKE THE, THE CHICKEN COOP OR THE BEEHIVES OR THE RABBIT HUTCHES.
AND SO AFTER RESEARCHING THIS, AND I TALKED TO THE, UM, AG EXTENSION FOR THE GUY WORKS FOR VIRGINIA TECH, UM, WE DISCUSSED, UH, BASICALLY THE BEST COURSE MOVING FORWARD IF THEY WANT TO UP THE NUMBER OF CHICKENS OR RABBITS OR BEEHIVES, WOULD BE TO DO LIKE A SQUARE FOOT PER CHICKEN ROLL.
SO ESSENTIALLY YOU'D BE LOOKING AT AN AVERAGE OF FOUR SQUARE FEET OF COOP SPACE PER CHICKEN AND EIGHT SQUARE FEET OF RUN SPACE PER CHICKEN UP TO NO MORE THAN 10.
SO I THINK AS LONG AS THEY MEET THOSE SPACE REQUIREMENTS UP TO 10, WE'RE OKAY.
I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GONNA ADVERSELY AFFECT THE WATER QUALITY.
UM, AND I BELIEVE COUNSEL'S THOUGHT WAS THAT WE LEAVE THE NUMBER OF RABBITS AND BEEHIVES ALONE AND JUST CHANGE THE NUMBER OF, OR THE, THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF CHICKENS FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS WORK SESSION.
I CAN START GETTING THE ORDINANCE DRAFTED IF THERE'S ANY ADDITIONAL CHANGES.
DOES, HAS COUNSEL SUBMITTED AN ORDINANCE THEY WANT US TO REVIEW? OR ARE THEY ASKING US TO MAKE AN ORDINANCE? WE NEED TO MAKE THE ORDINANCE.
SO I WILL DRAFT THE CHANGES TO THE ORDINANCE AND I WILL BRING IT TO THIS BODY AT THE NEXT WORK SESSION.
AND BUT THEY DID SPECIFY THEY WANT 10 CHICKENS, NO MORE THAN 10.
SO THEY PASSED A RESOLUTION, I BELIEVE AT THE MEETING LAST MONDAY.
AND IT STATED, UM, REQUEST THAT THERE BE A CHICKENS PER SQUARE FOOT, UH, RULE IN THE ORDINANCE.
BUT, BUT THEY DIDN'T SAY WHAT THAT PER FOOT WOULD BE.
NO, BUT WHEN I TALKED TO THE AG EXTENSION FOLKS, THEIR RECOMMENDATION
[00:45:01]
WAS FOUR SQUARE FEET OF POOP SPACE PER CHICKEN.EIGHT SQUARE FEET OF RUN SPACE.
BUT NO, BUT I THOUGHT THEIR REQUEST WAS FOR HOW LARGE THE LOT HAD TO BE.
I THINK IT WAS LIKE A 25,000 SQUARE FOOT.
IF YOU, IF YOUR LOT IS LESS THAN 25,000 SQUARE FEET, THEN YOU SHOULD NOT EXCEED THE SIX CHICKENS.
IF YOU HAVE A LOT LARGER THAN 25,000 SQUARE FEET TO WHAT? 43? FIVE 60? RIGHT.
THEN YOU CAN GO UP TO THE 10 CHICKENS.
OKAY, SO THAT'S BASICALLY A HALF ACRE AND IT, YEAH.
YOU THINK OVER A HALF ACRE TWO? YEAH.
UH, THEY, THEY, THE INSPECTIONS SAY WE DO ANNUAL INSPECTIONS.
HAVE YOU NOTICED ANY ISSUES, JOHN, WITH ANY OF THE CURRENT POULTRY PRODUCERS IN OUR COMMUNITY? ALL THE INSPECTIONS WERE FOUND TO BE COMPLIANT WITH THE MANAGEMENT PLAN IN THE DOWN CODE.
HOWEVER, WE DID DISCOVER ONE AFTER THE INSPECTION THAT A, UM, ROOSTER WAS INVOLVED WHO CAN'T HAVE THEM ROOSTERS.
SO THAT IS TURNED OVER TO CODE ENFORCEMENT TO, UH, TO BRING IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE ROOSTER.
THAT WAS SO IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE HAVING CHICKEN SALADS, NEIGHBOR COLONEL SAND.
I THINK I USED, BUT EVERY DAY CHICKEN SALAD.
SO WHEN WE SAY JUST THE ORDINANCE CURRENTLY SAY CHICKENS AND NON CROWING, NON CROWING CROWING.
THAT WAS MY ROOSTERS ARE PROHIBITED IN TOWN.
ROOSTERS ARE PROHIBITED IN TOWN.
WHEN HAVE YOU ALL EVER BEEN TO THE VILLAGE? WE LOOK FOR IF WE GET A COMPLAINT OF A ROOSTER, CODE ENFORCEMENT WILL WALK SLASH DRIVE AROUND.
LISTEN, I CAN TELL YOU WHERE THREE OF THEM ARE
I WALK BY OUR HOUSE EVERY DAY.
ALL CAN BE PART-TIME CODE ENFORCEMENT.
LAUREN, HAVE WE CHECKED WITH OTHER LOCALITIES AS TO WHAT, UM, YES.
WINCHESTER CULPEPPER IN THE COUNCIL PACKET AND I CAN GET YOU A COPY OF IT.
WE LOOK AT GEORGE ACTUALLY DID A LOT OF LEGWORK THERE, REACHED OUT TO SEVERAL JURISDICTIONS, AND I THINK IT WAS ROANOKE CAPTAIN AT 10.
UM, MOST OF THEM WERE BETWEEN SIX AND 10.
THE MAJORITY OF THEM WERE AT SIX.
I, I KNOW HAVE ROOSTERS AND OH, AND THE OTHER THING THAT, UM, WAS MENTIONED IN THERE, I THINK OUR ORDINANCE CURRENTLY STATES THAT LIKE IF A DOG KILLS A CHICKEN, UM, IT'S AUTOMATICALLY CONSIDERED A DANGEROUS ANIMAL.
I THINK THAT PORTION SHOULD BE REMOVED AS WELL.
SO YOU WOULD NEED TO TAKE THEM TO PROCESS.
TYPICALLY EGG LAYING CHICKENS IN TOWN.
I, I DON'T WANNA BE TONGUE IN CHEEK.
WHEN, UH, WE, WE ORIGINALLY LOOKED AT THE ORDINANCE, WE ORIGINALLY WANTED JUST THREE, BUT APPARENTLY SOUTHERN STATES, WHOEVER ONLY SELLS THEM IN GROUPS OF SIX TEAM DOES NOT PERMIT YOU TO BUY LESS THAN SIX.
UNLESS YOU'RE REPLACING LIKE A CHICK THAT DIED.
YOU JUST CAN'T BUY LESS THAN SIX.
THEY TOLD ME, I TALKED TO PEOPLE AT ROYAL KING.
THEY SAID THAT THAT WAS STATE CODE.
I DIDN'T SEE IT IN STATE CODE.
BUT, UM, SO WHAT, WHAT IS THE NEED BEHIND THIS? IS THERE A REAL DEMAND FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE 10 CHECK-INS? I GUESS GET IT ON FACEBOOK, GOT TO THE RIGHT COUNSELING AS IT TOWN CITIZEN.
IT'S TOO MUCH IN, SO HYPOTHETICALLY THERE'S A REQUEST PUT TO COUNSEL MAXIMUM NUMBER OF CHECK-INS.
SO HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, SOMEONE WHO MIGHT NOT SAY A 0.32 ACRE LOT COULD HAVE HOW MANY CHICKENS? THREE.
YOU'D BE ABOVE THE 25,000 SQUARE FOOT THRESHOLD THERE.
WELL, NOT ME, I'M JUST ASKING FOR A FRIEND.
SO WHAT ARE THE SETBACKS RIGHT NOW FOR SIX CHICKENS? 10 FEET IN THAT? YES.
KINDA LIKE A SHED KEEP YOUR CHICKENS IN THE SO WHAT, WHAT WOULD THEY, TEN FIVE FEET, 10 CHICKEN.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WOULD NEED TO CHANGE THE SETBACKS.
[00:50:01]
WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT ENOUGH SPACE FOR THE CHICKENS TO BE HEALTHY AND SAFE.WELL IT SAYS ON YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS AND INCREASED SETBACKS, HOW BIG DOES THE CUP NEED TO BE PER CHICKEN? FOUR SQUARE FEET PER CHICKEN.
THESE WERE, OKAY, SO THAT'S WHAT BASICALLY QUESTIONS.
I WAS, YOU HAVE 10 CHICKENS, YOU GOT A 40 SQUARE FOOT COOP.
BUT WE CAN, IF WE, THAT'S UP FOR DISCUSSION.
DO WE WANNA INCREASE THE SETBACKS IF YOU INCREASE THE NUMBER OF CHICKENS? I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.
SO WHEN I TALKED TO THE AG EXTENSION, I DIDN'T REALIZE THERE WAS SUCH A, I DIDN'T, ONE, I DIDN'T REALIZE HOW MANY BREEDS OF CHICKENS THERE WERE.
BUT ESSENTIALLY YOU'VE GOT SMALL LITTLE CHICKENS ALL THE WAY UP TO BIG, ALMOST TURKEY SIZED CHICKENS.
AND SO FOUR SQUARE FEET OR CHICKEN IS ABOUT THE AVERAGE.
AND THEY SAID THE MAJORITY OF WHAT YOU'RE GONNA GET AT RURAL KING CAN BE HEALTHY IN A FOUR SQUARE FEET PER CHICKEN.
SO, SO IT WON'T BE NO FALL CORN LEGHORN.
IT'S GOING TO BE A, JUST YOUR AVERAGE RURAL KING CHICKEN IS WHERE MOST PEOPLE ARE GONNA GET 'EM FROM AROUND HERE FLYING MINE IN THE WEST COAST.
SO, SO THE PROCEDURE WILL BE, YOU WILL WRITE THE ORDINANCE, WE WILL REVIEW IT AT ANOTHER WORK SESSION YEP.
AND THEN SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING.
AND THEN FORWARD THAT TO OUR RECOMMENDATION TO, TO COUNCIL.
SO MY THOUGHTS ARE IF WE, I'LL GET IT READY FOR THE AUGUST WORK SESSION.
AND THEN, UM, HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING IN AUGUST AND THEN TAKE IT FROM THERE.
I BELIEVE THE NUMBER OF, I'M SORRY, JOHN, HAVE WE HAD ANY COMPLAINTS ON ANY EXISTING POULTRY PALACES, CHICKEN PAVILIONS,
THAT IS THOSE THAT WHEN WE INVESTIGATED, THEY DID NOT HAVE A PERMIT.
AND THEN WE DID HAVE COMPLAINTS FOR THE ROOSTERS OR THE ROOSTERS FOR THE NOISE OBVIOUSLY THEY WERE MAKING YES.
BUT WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY COMPLAINTS AS FAR AS THESE, UH, THE FRAGRANCE ADMITTED BY SAID FRAGRANCE.
WE HAD, I REMEMBER A COMPLAINT LAST YEAR, BUT WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY THIS YEAR.
IT, IT IS JUST NOW GOTTEN HOT, SO RIGHT OF EGGS THAT, THAT MAY HEAT UP THIS MONTH.
SO THERE WAS A RECENT HOUSE THAT WAS INSPECTED TO ALLOW CHICKENS THAT WAS FULL OF RATS AND RAT POOP.
SO DO YOU WANT CHICKENS ADDED TO THAT MESS? SO, SO HOW MANY RATS CAN WE HAVE? RIGHT? SO DID THAT, THAT'S WHERE THE MANAGEMENT CUP PLAN COMES INTO PLAY.
AND THEN WHEN STAFF GOES OUT THERE AND YOU SEE THAT THERE'S WRAP DROPPINGS AND, AND IT MAY NOT BE THE CLEANEST.
IDEALLY WE WANNA GIVE PEOPLE A CHANCE TO CLEAN IT UP AND, AND FIRST AND FOREMOST, WE WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYTHING'S HEALTHY AND THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE.
WELL, WELL I, WE WERE CERTAINLY HAPPY TO TAKE UP ANY REQUEST FROM COUNSEL AS FAR AS IF THEY WANT US TO LOOK AT IT.
AND, UM, 10 MAY BE APPROPRIATE FOR, UH, FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE NEED A LITTLE LARGER THAN 25,000 SQUARE FEET FOR, FOR A 10.
UM, UH, I WAS KIND OF JUST THINKING IN MY HEAD THAT, YOU KNOW, AN ACRE WOULD BE SUFFICIENT FOR 10, 25,000 FOR SIX AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A 10 CHICKENS, WELL, AN ACRE, WE DON'T REGULATE THE NUMBER OF CHICKENS THEY HAVE UP, UP TO THAT, YOU KNOW.
SO IT HAS TO BE GREATER THAN 25.
UH, WE'LL DO SOME CHICKEN RESEARCH.
I'LL SEND OUT THE URBAN AG GUIDELINES THAT THE ABA HAS PUT OUT.
THERE'S 300 PAGES OF CHICKEN INFORMATION.
UH, JUST DON'T REGULATE GOLDFISH.
DON'T, DON'T MAKE ME GET A PERMIT FOR MY GOLDFISH.
BUT WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING HONOR, SIR.
THEY HAVE NOT REQUESTED THAT WE MAKE ANY CHANGES TO RABBITS OR BEEHIVES.
JOHN GOES OUT AND DOES BEEHIVE INSPECTIONS TOO.
HAVE COUNSEL WANTED TO LEAVE THAT ON ONE.
RABBITS AND BS AS I'M AWARE OF SIX RABBITS.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF STAFF ON THIS MATTER? WE WILL LOOK AT IT IN AUGUST.
ANY OTHER INFORMATION? THESE ARE COMING BEFORE THIS DELIVERY PRODUCT TONIGHT.
I WILL ACCEPT THE MOTION TO ADJOURN.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY GETTING UP AND.