[00:00:04]
[Planning and Zoning Work Session on April 5, 2023.]
ALL RIGHT.I'D LIKE TO CALL TO ORDER THE, UH, WORK SESSION OF THE FRONT ROW PLANNING COMMISSION FOR WEDNESDAY, APRIL THE FIFTH, 2023.
GIVE US A ROLL CALL MS. POTTER, PLEASE.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS PRESENT WOULD DEFINITELY HAVE A FORM SO WE CAN GET STARTED.
UM, NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS WOULD BE THE PRESENTATION.
STAFF WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE THE SPEAKER, AND HERE YOU COULD TAKE PAGE TWO, FIRST TWO AND THEN PASS IT DOWN.
UM, WE'VE GOT ADAM CAMPBELL HERE FROM VDOT TONIGHT.
HE IS, UM, THE PERSON THAT ISSUED COMMENTS FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
SO I THOUGHT, UM, WHAT I, WHAT I DID WAS I SUBMITTED THE, UM, COMMENTS FROM VDOT IN YOUR PACKET PAST WEEKEND AND I THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU GUYS TO ASK HIM ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE HAD.
AND THEN WE TALKED ABOUT HOW WE'RE INCORPORATING THESE INTO THE PLAN.
SO I DON'T THINK THAT WE'VE GOT A FORMAL PRESENTATION OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
IN OUR LAST ROUND, WE REMOVED FROM VARIOUS ON THE GROUND, SAYS IT DOESN'T EXIST NOW BASED UPON THE HOPE OF APPLYING FOR REVENUE SHARING DOWN THE ROAD, IS IT AGAINST OUR INTEREST TO HAVE REMOVED YOU'VE REMOVED IT SINCE THE DRAFT WAS MADE? THEY'VE JUST ASKED ME TO SEND SOME LIST SUPERVISION AND ONE OF THOSE INCLUDES ON THE FUTURE LAND EAST MAP SHOWING OF THE EASTWEST CONNECTOR ROUTE WITH THE INTENT BEHIND THAT BEING THAT WE DON'T EXACTLY KNOW WHERE THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR IS GOING.
SO ON PAGE 1 36 OF THE COMP PLAN, UM, I THINK IT WAS YES.
SO THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP BACK LOOKING LIKE THIS AND NOT, I GOTTA PULL THAT.
SO THAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE THIS, BUT BUT KEEP IT ON THE TRANSPORTATION.
YEAH, IT WOULD BE ON THE TRANSPORTATION PLAN.
JUST NOT ON THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP.
THAT WAS THE INTENTION OF THE JUNE.
REALLY DIDN'T, BUT STILL IN THE TRANSPORTATION PLAN.
WE'RE JUST FROM MAPS BECAUSE WE GOT EXACTLY WHERE IT LAY.
WHAT IS, UM, THE HATCHING? IS THAT JUST TO SHOW THAT THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE A MIXED USE COMMERCIAL BUFFER AROUND.
IS THAT BEING, WE'RE JUST REMOVING WORDING THAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT SHE'S ASKING.
I MEAN, I DON'T THINK IT HURTS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER TO REMOVE IT FROM THE, AS LONG AS IT'S STAYING IN THE TRANSPORTATION.
AND WE HAVE THAT IN THE TRANSPORTATION CHAPTER.
IT'S ON THE MAP IN THE CHAPTER.
WE HAVE IT HERE, RIGHT? 79 79 IS THE LOCAL ROAD IMPROVEMENT? NO, THAT, THAT MATCHES THE, THE IMPROVEMENT TABLE ON THE FOLLOWING PAGE.
FROM A TRANSPORTATION STANDPOINT.
I JUST DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IF YOU, IF YOU ALL WANTED THAT SPECIFIC DIFFERENT ZONING ALONG AS COURT ORDER.
[00:05:01]
USDON'T LOOK AT LAND USE FROM COMPETITIVE TRANSPORTATION.
THIS, YOU SHOULD CREATE YOUR LAND USE BASED ON WHAT YOU WANT YOUR LAND USE, NOT FROM A POTENTIAL FUNDING GRANT OPPORTUNITY.
IF EVERYBODY CAN JUST SPEAK UP A LITTLE BIT LOUDER, THAT WOULD BE GOOD.
YOU SAID I WANT, I CAN'T PULL UP THE, THE WHERE, WHERE DO I FIND IT? THE ACTUAL CONFERENCE APPOINT TOWN WEBSITE.
OH, I DIDN'T THINK OTHER QUESTIONS FOR ME THAT, OH, I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT POINT WHERE TO TALK ABOUT ADAM.
WHEN WE SPOKE OVER THE PHONE, WE, YOU WERE KIND ENOUGH TO, UH, MEET WITH ME.
UM, AS YOU KNOW, UH, ONE OF THE CRITICAL THINGS THAT HAVE COME UP RECENTLY ON A RESIGNING REQUEST WAS, UM, THE LACK OF A, UH, FLOWER OR CONNECTION TO SHEOR SHORES ROAD THAT RAVINE LANDLOCKED WHEN THE TRAIN CAME THROUGH.
FOR INSTANCE, SETTING THERE FOR OUR, AND THE POTENTIAL FOR THE, FOR YOUR MEDICAL EMERGENCY, A HOUSE BURNING DOWN WHATEVER.
AND WE WERE DIVIDED ON A REZONING REQUEST BASED ON PUTTING MORE HOUSES, MORE TRAFFIC, UM, INTO THAT SITUATION.
WHEN YOU AND I SPOKE, CAN YOU, FOR THE ALL COMMISSIONERS, UH, TALK ABOUT THAT AND TALK ABOUT, FIRST OF ALL, THE VISION OF A FLYOVER, THE COST VDOT FIELDS, WHERE THE COST COMES FROM, AND THEN POSSIBLY THE ALTERNATIVE? UH, SURE.
UM, SO THIS, THE RUN PARKWAY, THE, THE PLANNING OF IT PROCEEDED MY TIME AT VDOT FUNDING.
UM, IT WAS BASICALLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION, UM, JUST ABOUT WHEN I FIRST STARTED AT VDOT.
UM, MY UNDERSTANDING WAS WITH OUR PRE PREVIOUS CONVERSATIONS THAT IT WAS ALWAYS, UH, INTENDED EVENTUALLY AS A SECOND PHASE TO EXPAND.
ONCE YOU LEAVE THAT CONNECTOR, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE THIS WITH THE FLYOVER.
UM, WHEN WE STARTED ESTIMATING THAT, UH, JUST THESE ARE PLANNING LEVEL COST ESTIMATES AND JUST GOING ON WHAT WE, WHAT
UH, THIS ONE'S KIND OF UNIQUE BECAUSE IT INVOLVES THE RAILROAD, SO THAT'S ADDED COSTS.
UH, THERE WOULD BE SIGNIFICANT MAINTENANCE OF TRAFFIC, UH, PLANS INVOLVED JUST BECAUSE IT'S AN ACTIVE INTERSECTION TODAY IN ORDER TO KEEP, UM, A WORKING ROAD ROAD NETWORK DURING CONSTRUCTION.
AND THEN JUST WITH THE SPACE LIMITATIONS, THE RETAINING WALLS THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO GO VERTICAL TO MAKE THAT RAILROAD CLEARANCE.
SO WE PLAN LEVEL COST ESTIMATE.
UH, WE CAME UP WITH A 35 40 MILLION ESTIMATE ON THAT IMPROVEMENT.
UM, WE ALSO PRICED OUT THE EASTWEST CONNECTOR.
UH, IF YOU ARE ABLE TO BUILD THAT IN CERTAIN IN PHASES, MAYBE THERE'S SOME TEMPORARY SOLUTIONS TO PROVIDE SECONDARY ACCESS.
UH, WE JUST SAW THAT FROM A PLANNING LEVEL ESTIMATE STANDPOINT AS MAYBE A, A MUCH MORE, UM, I DON'T WANNA SAY MUCH MORE, BUT MORE ATTAINABLE, UH, IMPROVEMENT FROM A COST STANDPOINT.
WELL, MAY I ASK WHAT THE COST WAS FOR, FOR THE EASTWEST CONNECTOR? CORRECT.
SO JUST WITH THE WORK WE DID TO SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE COMP PLAN, WE LOOKED AT KIND OF THE, ASSUMING THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE EASTWEST CONNECTOR.
UM, IF IT'S DONE AS A FOUR FOUR LANE SECTION, IT WOULD BE IN THE SAME BALLPARK AS THE, THE FLYOVER WITH LE RUN PARKWAY.
IF YOU CAN CUT THAT TO A HALF SECTION, A TWO LANE ROADWAY, YOU'RE LOOKING AT PROBABLY 24, 20 $6 MILLION.
THAT'S ASSUMING THE ENTIRE FACILITY.
NOW, I SAID THERE MIGHT BE OPTIONS TO DO PHASED IMPROVEMENTS.
WERE CREATIVE IN TERMS OF PROVIDING THAT SECONDARY ACCESS, SOME TEMPORARY FASHION UNTIL THE FULL FACILITY IS RELIABLE.
AND WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THAT, UM, THESE, THE BUILDING OF THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR, WHERE DID IT END UP AT? DID IT END UP AT MANASSAS AVENUE OR DID IT END UP ON EIGHTH STREET FOR THIS EXERCISE? IT WAS JUST, UH, IT DIDN'T GET INTO THAT, THAT LEVEL OF SPECIFICITY.
IT WAS JUST A, BASICALLY THE LENGTH, UH, THE APPROXIMATE LENGTH OF A CONNECTOR.
UM, WE ARE GETTING READY TO KICK OFF A STUDY WITH THE TOWN, UM, INTERNAL VDOT STUDY PLAN LEVEL STUDY TO GET A LITTLE MORE, UH, DEEPER ASSESSMENT OF
[00:10:01]
WHAT THE EAST WESTS CONNECTOR COULD, COULD LOOK LIKE BASED ON FUTURE, FUTURE TRIP FORECASTS FOR THAT, THAT PORTION OF THE TOWN THAT IS GONNA SERVE.UM, SO WE, WE, WE'LL BE STARTING A STUDY HERE SHORTLY AND WRAPPING IT UP HOPEFULLY BY, BY THE END OF THE YEAR TO GIVE A LITTLE MORE BETTER IDEA OF THOSE QUESTIONS YOU'RE ASKING.
WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE PREFERRED TIE IN POINT? UM, CAN IT BE A TWO-LANE SECTION BASED ON THE FUTURE TRAFFIC NEEDS OF WHAT'S PLANNED OUT THERE? UM, IF AT SOME POINT IT NEEDS TO BE FOUR LANES, WHAT'S THAT SUGAR POINT LIKE? HOW MUCH NEEDS TO DEVELOP? UM, AND THEN HOPEFULLY GET A LITTLE BETTER OF A COST ESTIMATE ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
UM, THROUGH THIS STUDY, AND I, I REMEMBER OUR CONVERSATION, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UH, I BELIEVE IT, IT'S IN OUR, IT'S NOT ON OUR WORKSHEET, AND WE TALKED ABOUT THE BRIDGE AT EIGHTH STREET, UM, I BELIEVE THERE'S FUNDING OR SOMETHING IS IN THE PLAN ABOUT THE REPLACEMENT OF THE EIGHTH STREET BRIDGE.
SO IT WOULD SEEM NATURAL TO ME THAT IF, IF THE, UM, EAST WEST CONNECTOR CAME IN BY BEING STADIUM, WHICH IS EIGHTH STREET, I BELIEVE IS THE DESIGN OF THE BRIDGE GOING TO MEET THE NEED OF THE ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC FLOW, WHAT ARE WE GONNA GO AHEAD AND BUILD A BRIDGE AND MAYBE CERTAINLY WOULD BE ADEQUATE NOW BE ADEQUATE IN THE SHORT TERM FUTURE FIVE YEARS? UM, I MEAN THAT'S CERTAINLY A QUESTION WE CAN, WE CAN CONSIDER WITH THE STUDY OF WHAT'S THE NEED FOR THAT.
I THINK THERE'S SOME, ONCE YOU GET TO THAT END OF WHERE IT WAS HIGH END, I THINK THERE'S ENOUGH CONNECTIVITY THERE THAT THERE MIGHT, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO COME UP UP WITH SOME TYPE OF DESIGN, CREATE CREATIVE DESIGN TO ENCOURAGE KIND OF TRIP DISTRIBUTION, UH, UP TO THE EXISTING, THE EXISTING NETWORK THERE SO YOU'RE NOT OVERSATURATING ANY ONE EXISTING ROADWAY.
AND OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO BUILD SOME SORT OF FLOWER THERE AS WELL BECAUSE THE RARER TRACKS COMING INTO TOWN AND SPLITTING AND CONTINUING ON AROUND.
SO THE EAST WEST WILL HAVE TO CROSS THE RAILROAD TO EITHER, WELL, MANASSAS CROSSES IT MANASSAS EXTENDED AT THE TOWN YARD.
UM, SO THE ROADWAY COMING UP THROUGH THE COUNTY OR, OR THE TOWN FARM, I GUESS BY THE SOLAR FIELD YOU'RE LOOKING AT, YOU GOTTA GET ACROSS THE RIVER TRACKS THERE.
BUT THAT WOULD TAKE IT OFF, UH, HAPPY CREEK, RIGHT? YEAH.
I MEAN YOU, I GUESS YOU COULD LEAVE THE HAPPY CREEK ACCESS AS IT IS AND JUST, I DON'T KNOW, YOU KNOW, THE TRANSPORTATION, I THINK THAT, BUT I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES WAS WAS THE ADDITIONAL, THE CONCERN ABOUT THE ADDITIONAL VOLUME HAVE, RIGHT.
I MEAN, I I WOULD BE A FAN QUITE HONESTLY, THE EAST WEST CONDUCTOR, BUT I'M, I'M ASKING THE QUESTIONS.
ARE WE THINKING ABOUT THIS IN TERMS OF OKAY, WE BUILD THAT, YEAH, THAT SOLVES SOME PROBLEM OF BEING LANDLOCKED, BUT I THINK IT'S STILL AN EXPENSIVE CROSSING THE RAILROAD COMING IN THERE.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT TRAFFIC LOOKS LIKE.
AND, AND YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TRACTOR TRAILERS BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN INDUSTRIAL PARK OUT THERE, TRACTOR TRAILERS COMING IN ON MANASAS TRYING TO MAKE A, UH, 90 ONTO SIXTH STREET OR ELS COMING DOWN EIGHTH STREET TO COMMERCE AGAIN, CROSSING THE BRIDGE OR NEW BRIDGE, OR NOT BRIDGE, UM, SITTING AT THAT STOP SIGN YEAH.
AND WE'RE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT INTERCHANGE STUDIES, UM, INTER INTERSECTION STUDIES AT, UH, COMMERCE AND NORTH ROYAL, UH, SIXTH STREET, I BELIEVE ONE OF THEM.
I'M NOT SURE WHERE THE OTHER ONE, SOUTH, SOUTH ROYAL AND SOUTH STREET, I MEAN.
BUT, UM, BUT THESE ARE THINGS THAT AT LEAST THAT WHERE THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR TERMINATES.
I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'LL FLUSH OUT IN THIS STUDY THAT WE'RE WORKING ON.
SO WHEN I, I AGREE, BUT I'M RAISING MY CONCERN THAT IF WE GO AHEAD WITH A BRIDGE PROJECT NOW, YOU KNOW, WILLY-NILLY AND WE PUT A BRIDGE IN, THEN OH WELL WE NEED TO CONNECT ON EIGHTH STREET.
OH, THAT BRIDGE REALLY ISN'T SUITABLE FOR THE INCREASED AMOUNT PROJECT.
AND THAT VARIABLE MAY CHANGE WHERE WE, WE TERMINATE THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT BRIDGE FUNDING OR ENGINEERING, I, I THINK THAT'S IN THE WORKS NOW.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS INCLUSIVE OF THE POTENTIAL RESOURCE CHANGE AND IT'S MAY BE PAST THE PERIOD.
SO THAT MAY INFLUENCE WHERE WE TERMINATE THIS.
I CAN GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF AN UPDATE ON THIS TOO.
UM, I'M GONNA TRY IN THE NEXT WEEK OR SO TO GET VDOT THE PARCEL MAP AND, AND, UM, WE'VE GOT A PROPERTY OWNER THAT'S GONNA BE SUBMITTING,
[00:15:01]
UH, I GUESS SOME SURVEYS OR TRAFFIC STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE IN THE RECENT YEARS AND THAT'LL KIND OF GET THIS STUDY MOVING FORWARD.AND THEN WE SHARED AT THE TRANSPORTATION MEETING THAT IT'D PROBABLY BE ABOUT A SIX MONTH PROCESS.
SO STAFF TOWN AND COUNTY ARE KIND OF TRYING TO GET OUR END TOGETHER AND THEN THAT'LL GET WORKING WITH THE COUNTY.
HOW MUCH WOULD THE EXTRA EXIT OFF OF 66 COST? A NEW INTERCHANGE? YES.
UH, WAS THAT EVEN LOOKED AT? UH, NO.
UM, I MEAN WE'VE BEEN TOLD BY FH W IN THE PAST THAT, THAT, UM, THE CURRENT INTERCHANGE, WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE DONE EVERYTHING POSSIBLE AND IT WOULD, IT WOULD STILL HAVE TO BE A FAILING LEVEL OF SERVICE BEFORE A NEW INTERCHANGE WOULD, YOU'D BE CONSIDERING NEW INTERCHANGE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT EASILY A BALLPARK FIGURE OF A HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS STARTING.
OH, IT'S JUST HARD AMBITION UNLESS MONEY IN A DOMINANT INTERCHANGE, BUT YEAH.
BUT WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE I GOTCHA.
I MEAN IT WOULD, I WAS JUST THINKING THE HOSPITAL ON IT WOULD SOLVE A PROBLEM IN ONE WAY AND IT WOULD CERTAINLY WELL OR ENCOURAGE MORE DEVELOPMENT.
I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD RECOGNIZE HIS COMMUNITY IF, IF WE GOT TO THE POINT THAT WE NEEDED THAT INTERCHANGE YEAH.
IT WOULDN'T BE FRONT ROYAL ANYMORE.
SO ADAM, I FEEL LIKE I'M DOMINATING A MEETING HERE, HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
SO ADAM, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS, UM, WE RECEIVED IN OUR PACKAGE WAS THE VOP PROPOSALS TO SOUTH STREET IMPROVEMENTS.
AND THAT, UH, IF I REMEMBER, UH, VARIOUS THINGS FROM THAT, IT WAS THE, UM, SCORING OF SOUTH STREET BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN MULTIPLE ACCIDENTS AND A FATALITY AND THERE IS
I I'M GONNA RAISE A CONCERN ABOUT THAT BECAUSE ALREADY THERE'S, AND, AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE LOOKED AT IT, THE IDEAS I UNDERSTAND WILL BE TO PUT A PERMANENT MEDIUM ON THE EAST END OF SOUTH STREET WHERE TRAFFIC COMING FROM COMMERCE OR FROM JOHN MARSHALL HEADING WEST ON SOUTH STREET, WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE IT A LEFT HAND TURN AT THE FIRST SHOPPING CENTER ENTRANCE.
WHAT A LOT OF US CALL THE RURAL KING ENTRANCE.
I, I'M JUST KIND OF PULLED UP.
SO COMING FROM, UM, COMMERCE TAKING A RIGHT ON SOUTH STREET, RIGHT FIRST UN SIGNALIZED ENTRANCE MM-HMM.
PLAN IS TO, TO REMOVE THAT, MAKE IT BASICALLY MAKE IT A RIGHT IN, RIGHT OUT FOR THE SHOPPING CENTER.
AND, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT MAKES SENSE ON, YOU KNOW, COMING OUTTA THE SHOPPING CENTER AND NOT TRYING TO CROSS, BUT I'M NOT SURE THE V OTS LOOKED AT THE EFFECT THAT HAS OF DRIVING ALL THE TRAFFIC THROUGH THE ONE ENTRANCE IN FRONT OF THE MARTIN'S GROCERY STORE.
WELL, THERE ARE PEDESTRIANS CROSSING CONSTANTLY.
I MEAN CONSTANTLY WHEN, WHEN MARTINS IS BUSY, TRAFFIC BACKS UP OUTSIDE OF MARTIN ONTO TO SOUTH STREET.
NOW, NOW WE'RE PROPOSING A LEFT-HAND, WELL, THERE'S A LEFTHAND TURN LANE THERE, BUT NOW ANYBODY GOING TO ROYAL KING THE GYM, SOME OF THE SUNDRY GO IN FRONT OF MARTINS, WE'RE GONNA DRIVE HIM UP THERE AND WE ALREADY HAVE AN ISSUE.
WE'RE NOT GONNA RELOCATE MARTIN'S.
YOU'RE GONNA PERSUADE THEM TO GIVE YOU ANY PARKING TO FACILITATE THAT.
AND THEN THERE'S A LIGHT, I BELIEVE, ISN'T THERE A LIGHT RIGHT UP FROM THAT AT, UM, THE SECOND MARK ENTRANCE? YEAH.
I'M JUST VERY CONCERNED THAT YES, WE'RE GOING TO MITIGATE SOME PROBLEMS, BUT WE'RE GOING TO EXASPERATE HUGELY THAT THE ISSUE OF CONGESTION IN MARTIN'S, BECAUSE MARTIN'S LIKE ANY LARGE RETAILER, HAS A CROSSWALK AND THEY INSTRUCT YOU, YOU GO IN THERE AND STOP, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU GET A LINE OF TRAFFIC TURNING AND PEOPLE ARE SO IMPATIENT ANYMORE.
I THINK THEY'RE GONNA BE BLOCKING THE INTERSECTION TRYING TO GET, GET THROUGH MARKS TO GET OVER THERE TO ROLL.
UH, AND I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SEE V DOC GET SOME MORE THOUGHT FOR THAT.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS.
A COUPLE THINGS HAVE BEEN SUGGESTED TO ME THAT THERE BE
[00:20:01]
A, UH, ENTRANCE OVER IS THAT HAPPY CREEK OR LONG HAUL ABOUT YOUR WATER? YEAH, THAT'S HAPPY CREEK.PERHAPS A, A BRIDGE OVER HAPPY CREEK.
SO YOU COULD COME FROM 5 22 GREENMOUNT ROAD INTO THE SHOPPING CENTER.
THAT WOULD BE ONE ALTERNATE OR WORK WITH THE SHOPPING CENTER AND, AND TRY TO DESIGN A TRAFFIC FLOW AROUND THE BACK OF IT.
BUT IF YOU DO THAT NOW YOU HAVE TRACTOR TRAILER TRAFFIC IN AND OUTTA THERE.
YOU HAVE ROYAL KING RUNNING FORKLIFTS AROUND.
YOU HAVE THE DONATIONS FOR THE THRIFT STORE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT GOES ON ON THE BACK.
I'VE DRIVEN EM AROUND HERE IN A WHILE, BUT I'M VERY YOU COULDN'T CHECK.
NO, THE BACK COULDN'T, YOU COULDN'T TURN MAJOR TRAFFIC.
IT'S PROBABLY OWN, I DON'T THINK NO SHOP
I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT, YOU THINK SOME EMPLOYEE PARKING, YOU'VE GOT ACCESS FOR DUMPSTERS BACK THERE.
YOU'VE GOT THE THRIFT STORE THAT YOU DO DO DROPBOX.
I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU GOT THE SPACE BECAUSE YOU GOT ACTING STREET AND THEN YOU'VE GOT, WAS IT REY? AND THEN YOU'VE GOT THE LIBRARY AND THE PARK.
I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE THE SPACE TO, TO DO WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
WELL, I MEAN, I LIKE THE IDEA.
I I MEAN THERE'S ALREADY A ROADWAY AROUND BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT YEAH.
THAT'S A SMART IDEA TO TRY TO FUNNEL TRAFFIC FROM OVER HERE, TO GET OVER TO ROYAL KING OR THE GYM OR WHATEVER.
YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT, UM, THEIR ACCESS OFF OF ACCESS OFF KREER YEAH.
IS HOW YOU WOULD, BUT THEN YOU'VE GOT A GRADE ISSUE WITH KAISER'S A LOT HIGHER.
YOU'VE ALSO GOT A FLOODWAY ISSUE TOO.
YOU ALSO HAVE THE ISSUE OF TAKING OUT HALF THE PARK.
NO, THAT, THAT'S A HUGE NO, I DON'T, THAT'S A HUGE YOU DON'T, BUT I THINK YOU HAVE ROOM IN MY MIND THERE.
RULE KING BEFORE YOU START THE BUILDINGS OUT, IF YOU CROSS HAPPY CREEK, OUR PARKWAY GOES THROUGH THERE.
THERE MAY BE ROOM TO, TO CROSS THE CREEK THERE, BUT AGAIN, YOU'RE TALKING, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BRIDGE ON CREER ROAD COSTS, BUT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DUPLICATING THAT FOR TWO-LANE TRAFFIC.
UH, SO THERE'D BE THREE BRIDGES ACROSS HALF CREEK FROM CORNER STREET.
WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HELPS.
ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT GREEN, UH, A BRIDGE FROM REMOUNT ROAD? YES.
OVER THERE ACROSS THE HAPPY CREEK? NOT, NOT CREER ROAD.
IF YOU CAN, IF YOU CONTINUE TO GO OUT REMOUNT ROAD 300 YARDS, PUT A BRIDGE THERE AND TO THE SHOPPING CENTER, IT WOULD GO INTO THE SHOPPING CENTER AFTER, AFTER THE GYM BETWEEN THE GYM.
GYM AND ROYAL KING ARE ROYAL KING HERE IS THE GYM THERE.
THERE'S A LARGE PARTIAL OF PARKING LOT.
I THINK THEY HAVE TRACTORS AND STUFF PARKED OUT THERE NOW.
BUT, BUT HAPPY CREEK IS THERE.
WHAT YOU HAVE IS TRAFFIC IN THE ROLL KINGS RIGHT IN RIGHT OUT.
WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED? PROPOSED? YEAH.
SO THE ONLY TRAFFIC AFFECTED WOULD BE COMING IN TOWN THAT USUALLY CUT ACROSS TRAFFIC AND MAKE A LEFT HAND TURN.
THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO TO THE TRAFFIC LIGHT TO GO INTO ROLL CANE.
AND THAT'S GONNA FURTHER EXASPERATE AN ALREADY BAD, WE AN ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC LIGHT AT BLUE RIDGE.
SO YOU WILL ADD A TRAFFIC LIGHT THERE TO RIGHT.
SO THE TRAFFIC DOWN, MAYBE SOME LOCALS MIGHT THINK I'LL GO UP THERE AND GO AROUND THE BACK, WHICH I DON'T KNOW THAT WE WANT THEM TO DO THAT ANYWAY.
SO FOR YOUR CONCERNS, UM, WE, WE DID, WE DO HAVE SUPPORTING ANALYSIS TO SHOW THAT THIS WORKS FROM A MAINLINE OPERATIONS.
UM, IF THERE ARE ALREADY ISSUES ABOUT SPILL BACK COMING OUT OF THE MARTIN'S PARKING LOT, THAT PROBABLY WAS NOT CAPTURED IN THAT ANALYSIS.
UM, ONCE THIS PROJECT GETS IN DESIGN, WE'LL BE DOING ADDITIONAL ANALYSIS THAT THAT CAN BE CAPTURED TO SEE WHAT THE IMPACTS ARE AND IF WE NEED TO MODIFY THE DESIGN AT ALL.
UM, SO THIS, THIS CONCEPT KIND OF EVOLVED FROM AN INITIAL RECOMMENDATION FROM THE STUDY VIDO DID FOR SOUTH STREET ON DOING EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST MENTIONED, UH, REDESIGNING THE, THE MARTIN'S UM, PARKING LOT TO MO ACTUALLY MOVE THE MAIN ENTRANCE TO BLUE RIDGE.
UM, THAT WAS GONNA BE REDESIGNED.
SO YOU KINDA HAD A CURVED ENTRANCE ALLOWING MORE STACKING SPACE FOR CARS TO COME INTO THE SHOPPING CENTER BEFORE THEY WERE
[00:25:01]
INFLUENCED BY INTERNAL CIRCULATION.UM, JUST BECAUSE THAT WAS OUT OF THE HANDS OF THE TOWN'S ABILITY TO, I MEAN, THAT'D HAVE TO BE ON THEM TO DO THAT.
UH, WE CAN OF CAME UP WITH THIS OTHER CONCEPT.
WELL, UM, THIS IS A CL THIS WOULD BE ADDING ANOTHER SIGNAL.
THEY'D BE RUNNING ON THE SAME CONTROLLER, SO THEY'D ALMOST BE OPERATING AS A SINGLE SIGNAL.
SO WE'RE KIND OF LIKE TRYING TO COMBU DO THAT ORIGINAL CONCEPT, BUT WITH THIS TWO SIGNAL SY, UH, METHOD.
UM, THAT, I MEAN THAT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GONNA CONSIDER IF THERE IS ALREADY SPILL BACK FROM THE SHOPPING CENTER AND OUT INTO THE ROADWAY.
WOULD THAT MEAN THAT THE, THAT THE ROAD ACROSS OR FRONT OF THE DRIVE ACROSS IN FRONT OF MARTIN'S WOULD HAVE TO THEN BE ONE WAY? IT ALMOST WOULD HAVE TO BE IF YOU'RE NOT ALLOWING TRAFFIC OUT ONTO SOUTH STREET FROM THAT PARKING LOT THERE, THERE ONE IN ONE OUT.
SO WE ARE, WE ARE MAINTAINING ACCESS AT THE EXISTING UN SIGNALIZED ENTRANCE JUST TO, CAN'T TAKE A LEFT END, BUT THE SIGNALIZE ENTRANCE NOW THAT PEOPLE ARE USING TO GO IN AND OUT, UH, IT'S STILL TWO RAILS.
IT WOULD STILL, IT WOULD STILL FLOW LEAVING MARCH.
THE ONLY THING WE'RE DOING WITH THE, AT THE EXISTING SIGNAL WOULD BE REMOVING THE LEFT TURN, THE EASTBOUND LEFT TURN INTO THE MCDONALD'S.
IT'S A RIGHT TURN INTO MCDONALD'S.
IF YOU'RE GOING EASTBOUND, EASTBOUND.
SO COMING DOWN, HEADING TOWARDS COMMERCE, YOU CANNOT MAKE A LEFT INTO THE MCDONALD'S PARKING LOT.
SO YOU HAVE TO MAKE A LEFT AT BLUE RIDGE AVENUE AND ACCESS SIDE, SIDE ENTRANCE IN THAT DIRECTION.
NO, I MEAN, I, I APPLAUD YOU GUYS.
WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOUTH STREET, BUT IN MY MIND, IN LOOKING AT THAT AND, AND LIVING HERE AND GOING TO MARTIN'S, IT'S ALREADY A GROCERY STORE IN TOWN.
THERE MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE, UM, I MEAN IT'S GONNA BE LIMITED SPACE JUST BECAUSE OF, OF HOW CLOSE THAT INTERSECTION IS TO WITH THE INTERSECTION OF THE SOUTH.
BUT THERE MIGHT BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE A A, A CHANNELIZED LEFT TURN IN.
UM, SO YOU CAN STILL GET, YOU STILL CAN MAKE HEAVY ABILITY.
YOU'LL GET THE LEFT END, TAKE THE LEFT OUT IN LEFT TURN.
IF YOU'RE COMING, IF YOU'RE ON SOUTH STREET HEADING WEST, HAVING A LITTLE CHANNELIZED BREAK IN THAT PROPOSED ISLAND, STILL ALLOW A LEFT TURN IN.
YOU JUST WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TAKE A LEFT.
I THINK THAT'S BETTER THAN YOU.
THE ONLY THING I'M WORRIED ABOUT IS JUST LIKE I SAID, THE LIMITED SPACING.
WE WERE TRYING TO IMPROVE THE, THE STORAGE FOR THE LEFT TURN MOVEMENT, UH, GOING EASTBOUND ON SOUTH STREET TO GO NORTH ON COMMERCE JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE SO CLOSE TO EACH OTHER.
THOSE KIND OF BLEED TOGETHER WHERE THAT THOSE CARS MAY BE INTERACTING.
UM, I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED WITH JUST HOW MUCH REAL ESTATE'S THERE AVAILABLE FOR THAT ACCOMMODATE THE LEFT TURN MOVEMENT.
BUT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO TAKE ABOUT SOMETHING IF, HAS THERE BEEN ANY MOVEMENT, HAS THERE BEEN ANY MEETINGS OR, OR, OR, OR A COLLABORATION BETWEEN THE, THE UM, SHOPPING CENTER OWNER AND VIDO ABOUT THAT? BECAUSE THEY, THEY PROBABLY, THE OWNERS PROBABLY DO THIS A LOT WITH THEIR PROPERTIES AROUND THE STATE.
UM, I LED THE STUDY EFFORT FROM WHEN WE WORKED WITH THE TOWN PREVIOUSLY WHEN WE FIRST STARTED THE SOUTH THREE STUDY.
UM, THAT WAS ON TOWN STAFF AT THE TIME.
THEY SAID THEY WERE GONNA MEET WITH THE
IT SEEMS LIKE THEY COULD HAVE SOME REALLY VALUABLE INSIGHTS ABOUT FLOWING TRAFFIC TO HELP ALLEVIATE SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS ALONG WITH I'M SURE THEY WOULD BE OPEN TO THE CONVERSATION, ESPECIALLY IF THERE'S ALREADY AN ISSUE WITH, WITH PEOPLE ACCESSING THEIR, THEIR SITE.
IF PEOPLE HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE.
UM, I'VE GOT LIKE TWO OR THREE MORE.
UM, WE DON'T HAVE IT ON OUR PLAN, BUT YET I, PEOPLE HAVE EXPRESSED THE CONCERN TO ME ABOUT WIDENING ROUTE 55, JOHN MARSHALL HIGHWAY, AT LEAST THE TOWN LIMITS BECAUSE EVERY DAY FOR A COMMUTING COMMUNITY, EVERY DAY THERE'S A BACKUP, UM, ON JOHN MARSHALL OUT ON LU'S RUN BETWEEN THE THREE 30 AND FIVE O'CLOCK ROOM IN OH, INBOUND.
OUR COMMUTER'S COMING HOME AND WE DON'T HAVE IT ON THIS PLAN AT LEAST ANYWAY.
BUT THERE IS ISN'T A A SIMILAR PROBLEM WITH COMMUTERS GOING OUT IN THE MORNING.
I DON'T DON'T BEING THAT CROWDED IN THE MORNING.
UM, BUT IN THE AFTERNOON IT'S ALWAYS A PROBLEM.
NO'S A PROBLEM IN THE AFTERNOON.
IT'S LESS BOUND BACK UP FOR THE, FOR THE THROUGH, FOR THE THROUGH VOLUME COMING BACK INTO THE TOWN.
[00:30:02]
ANY IDEA? ANY IDEA ON APPROXIMATE LIKE HOW LONG THE QUEUE GETS THEY'RE COMING OFF EXIT 13, UM, TO GET THROUGH THE LIGHT.IF, IF, IF YOU'RE COMING DOWN THE HILL AT, UH, IS THAT WESTMINSTER JAKE'S TOWN ROAD TO MAKE A LEFT TURN? YOU CAN'T DO IT.
AND ESPECIALLY WHEN SCHOOL ENDS AND THERE'S TRAFFIC.
IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH, WE HAVE A HIGH SCHOOL AND AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL THAT COMES OUT.
AND THEN THERE'S A PRIVATE SCHOOL THAT COMES OUT.
SO PEOPLE IN THE SUBDIVISION, IF YOU'RE TRYING TO COME OUT, UM, I FORGET THE NAME OF THAT STREET.
TRYING TO MAKE A LEFT HAND TURN.
YOU'RE, YOU NEED TO GO UP TO LEACH RUN.
YOU CAN'T GO UP TO LEACH'S RUN.
I'M SAYING THE TRAFFIC'S BACKED UP BEYOND LEACH'S RUN.
BUT ISN'T THERE, THERE'S A LIGHT, SO WHEN YOU CAN'T TURN OUT A WALKER, IT'S NOT A LIGHT AND YOU CAN'T TURN LEFT.
WHAT PEOPLE DO IS THEY GO BACK THROUGH THE SUBDIVISION AND THEN COME OUT WESTMINSTER AND THEN IT'S BACKING ON UP.
IT'S ADDING TO THE BACKUP TO COME DOWN TO THE LIGHT TO GO RIGHT OR LEFT.
BUT I, I GUESS I'M CONCERNED CUZ SOME PEOPLE HAVE TALKED TO ME ABOUT, WE KNOW I'D HAVE TO TAKE THE COUNTY TOO AND VDOT TO GO ALL THE WAY OUT TO LEBANON.
WE DON'T WANT GET IN WITH THAT DISCUSSION, BUT AT LEAST WIDENING IT OUT TO THE TOWN LIMITS.
I'M NOT SURE, BE AWARE IF YOU ARE AWARE, BUT THE, THE COUNTY TRIED TWICE TO GET FUNDING, UH, TO PORTLAND THEIR SECTION 55.
BUT IT WAS JUST TOO EXPENSIVE PROJECT TO, UH, COMPETITIVE.
UM, THERE ARE SOME SAFETY IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE FUNDED ALONG THE COUNTY PORTION OF 55, WHICH JUST TRIED TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE CRASH TRENDS ALONG IT.
UH, BUT THERE'S NO PLANS TO DO ANY THAT BLINDING CAPACITY IMPROVEMENT IN THE COUNTY PORTION.
WELL, I'M AWARE OF THAT, BUT GUESS I'M ASKING MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS AND PLANNING SHOULD THAT BE ON OUR FIVE OR 10 YEAR PLAN.
SO THE, THE ISSUE IS CONJ QUEUING ON 55 COMING BACK INTO TOWN OR THE BIGGER CONCERN IS THE QUEUING ON THE SIDE STREETS BECAUSE THE VOLUME ON 55 IS SO HIGH.
YEAH, YOU HAVE TWO PROBLEMS WITH 55.
THE VOLUME OF TRAFFIC COMING IN TOWN.
THERE'S CREATING, CREATING A BACKUP FROM OUR FOUR LANE SECTION BACK UP OVER THE HILL ABOUT A HALF A MILE.
THEN THAT IN TURN CREATES A PROBLEM FOR THE SIDE STREETS EGRESS ONTO JOHN MARSHALL.
SO IS LEE UNDER CONSTRUCTION? IS THERE A SIGNAL THERE? YES.
THE SIGNAL DOESN'T PROVIDE ENOUGH GAPS FOR THOSE WHAT TURN MOVEMENTS DOWNSTREAM.
LIKE WHAT? SO WHEN I'M PICKING MY, THE TRAFFIC IS BACK UP BEYOND THOUGH.
I GET STUCK AT THAT MAYBE TWO, TWO CYCLES OF THAT SIGNAL BEFORE I CAN GET THROUGH.
AND THAT'S FROM WALKER TO WESTMINSTER.
I MEAN, I CAN'T IN TOWN ONE DAY AND OUR, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE LOOKING, WE WERE THREE CARS BEHIND, UH, UH, LEACH'S RUN AND, AND YOU LOOK ALL THAT TRAFFIC AS FAR AS YOU CAN SEE, WE BAILED OFF, WENT DOWN LEACH'S RUN, CAME IN HAPPY CREEK ROAD.
I MEAN, BUT, BUT SO THERE'S ANOTHER VARIABLE HERE TOO.
IF, IF THE HEP TAP REZONING WERE TO GET APPROVED AND THAT PROPERTY WERE TO GET DEVELOPED, THERE WOULD BE A ANOTHER ENTRANCE THAT WOULD BE CONNECTED FROM WESTMINSTER OUT TO LEACH RUN.
I MEAN THAT'S ONE OF OUR ADDITIONAL RIGHT.
PLUS THAT WOULD ALSO HAVE A CONNECTION INTO HAPPY CREEK KNOWLES, WHICH WOULD GET YOU TO HAPPY CREEK.
SO YOU WOULD NOW HAVE TWO ADDITIONAL RIGHT WAYS OUT, OUT THAT WE DON'T CURRENTLY HAVE.
AND THAT MAY ELIMINATE SOME OF THAT SIDE STREET BACKUP.
BUT IT'S NOT GONNA SOLVE, BUT THAT'S NOT GONNA SOLVE JOHN JOHN MARSHALL BACKUP.
SO ANYWAY, UM, BUT THE IDEA OF PUTTING THAT IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IS IT TOO LATE TO DO THAT? NO, IT'S NOT TOO LATE.
I'M, I'M JUST SAYING CITIZENS HAVE TALKED TO ME ABOUT IT AND I'VE WITNESSED IT.
UM, I DON'T THINK IT'S A ONE-OFF THING.
I THINK IT'S A COMMON PROBLEM.
AND THEN AS WE KNOW WHEN THE LEAVES COME ON THE WEEKENDS, YEAH.
YOU KNOW, IT'S FURTHER EXASPERATED, BUT IT'S A DAILY EVENT FOR OUR COMMUTERS, OUR PEOPLE TRYING TO RETURN INTO TOWN, RETRIEVE THEIR CHILDREN FROM DOWN THERE, UH, SCHOOL BUSES, UH, AGAIN, SAFETY ISSUES.
IF GOD FORBID SOMETHING HAPPENED TRYING TO ACCESS BACK THERE WITH ALL THE TRAFFIC QUEUED UP.
SO, AND WITH THAT, THAT'S REALLY MY LAST QUESTION.
BUT THE HEP TAB PROPERTY WOULD
[00:35:01]
HELP A LOT OF THAT.BECAUSE EVERYBODY GOING TO, AND IF THERE IS AN EMERGENCY, I MEAN YOU'VE GOT, YOU WOULD THEN HAVE LEE RUN PARKWAY TO GET OFF OF 55.
YOU GO WALK AND I'VE DONE THAT BEFORE WILLIAMSBURG.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT, AND IT'S SOUND IDEAL, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LIVE IN THOSE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.
CAUSE I KNOW MY STREET GETS USED DOESN'T NEED TO ALLEVIATE OR AVOID PREP, BUT IN AN EMERGENCY OR RIGHT.
WHO ELSE HAS QUESTIONS? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS?
YOU FOUND OUT ANYTHING ABOUT THE LIGHTING? UH, YES I DID.
UM, SO THE, THE RESPONSE WAS V DOT'S POLICY IS TO LIGHT NODES NOT ROADS.
SO, I'M SORRY, WHAT?
UM, SO THAT'S WHY, UH, I CAN SEE AN ARGUMENT WITH THE, WITH THE QUADRANT ROADWAY INTERSECTION IS THAT'S ALL ONE BIG INTERSECTION AND THE WHOLE THING SHOULD HAVE BEEN LIT.
BUT THAT'S WHY THE LIGHTING EXTENDS FROM, FROM THE PRIMARY INTERSECTION TO THE TWO SECONDARY INTERSECTIONS ONLY.
UM, WE JUST TRY TO, TO AVOID, UH, UNNECESSARY LIGHTING WITH JUST LIGHT POLLUTION.
UNLESS THERE IS A, A SAFETY NEED BASED ON CRASH DATA FROM, I'LL USE YOUR OWN ARGUMENT AGAINST YOU COMING UP STRAWS FOR THE ROAD FROM THE INTERSECTION ONLY CARRIES 10% OF THE TRAFFIC AND IT IS LIT FROM THE INTERSECTION OF 5 22 AND 55 ALL THE WAY UP TO THE QUADRANT ROAD.
THAT TO ME IS A WASTE OF RESOURCES.
AND THEN 80 SOME PERCENT OF THE TRAFFIC'S ON THE QUADRANT AND IT'S NOT LIT.
AND IT, IT'S DIFFICULT AT NIGHT TO SEE, TO TRANSITION OUT 55 WEST.
IT'S A, IT IS A PERSONAL ISSUE.
SO CROY, YOU'RE GETTING CROTCHY CRUNCHY.
YEAH, I'M GETTING NO, I MEAN I UNDERSTAND IF, IF, IF, IF, IF I WAS DESIGNING IT, I WOULD VIEW THE WHOLE THING AS A KIND OF A SYSTEM.
IT'S A, IT'S A SYSTEM INTERSECTION.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED WITH TOWN COUNCIL IN TERMS OF THE TOWN COUNCIL? I NINE? NO, THE TOWN COUNT.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE ANYMORE THE, THE TOWN ENDS TO THE EAST AND WEST OF THE BRIDGES.
NOW I WAS TOLD THAT THOSE ARE TOWN MAINTAINED LIGHTS THAT WE MAINTAIN THOSE LIGHTS.
BUT THEY'RE, BUT VDOT OWNS, IS IT VDOT MAINTAINS THE INTERSECTION THERE, LIKE THE ACTUAL STREET? I BELIEVE, YES.
BUT YEAH, I, I NEED TO FOLLOW UP ON THIS, BUT I WAS TOLD THAT VDO OR THE TOWN MAINTAINS THOSE LIGHTS.
WELL REGISTER MY COMPLAINT THAT, SO RIGHT NOW, IF ONE GOES OUT, WE HAVE, WE HAVE NO IDEA WHO FIXES IT.
I'M SURE OUR ENERGY SERVICES DEPARTMENT KNOWS.
I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT LICENSE.
BUT THE BRIDGES ARE NOT IN TOWN.
I BELIEVE THAT'S, I TAKE THAT YOU ALL RIGHT.
HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ONE QUESTION I, I'VE BEEN ASKED AT THE OFFICE, WAS THERE ANY DECISION OR ONE TIME AN IDEA OF CONNECTING SHEO SHORES, ONE OF THOSE SUBDIVISIONS ROADS DOWN TO 6 24, UH, HAVING SHANDO SHORES CONNECT DOWN TO 6 24? I MEAN YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S SOMETHING WE DISCUSSED ABOUT WHEN WE HAD THIS MEETING WITH THE COUNTY IN TOWN REGARDING THIS, THIS UPCOMING STUDY WE'RE GETTING READY TO DO.
UM, JUST THE MORE YOU LOOK AT THAT, THE MORE CHALLENGING THAT CONNECTION LOOKS.
I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S A PRIVATE LANDOWNER.
THERE'S SIGNIFICANT TOPOGRAPHICAL CHALLENGES.
THERE'S A CREEK THAT HAVE THE CROSS ALSO.
YEAH, I GUESS HIS QUESTION MADE ME THINK OF JUST VDOT HAVE A RECOMMENDATION FOR US FOR FUTURE DEVELOPMENT IN THAT AREA THAT
[00:40:01]
WHERE SHANNON SHORES AND THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR, UM, I MEAN THAT'S PART OF THE STUDY PROCESS IS TO TAKE THE LAND USE THAT YOU ALL HAVE ALREADY DESIGNATED OUT THERE AND COME UP.WE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT COMING UP WITH SEVERAL SCENARIOS FROM A, FROM A LOWER DENSITY DEVELOPMENT SCENARIO TO THE, TO, TO THE HIGHEST AND BEST DEVELOPMENT, JUST TO GIVE YOU A RANGE OF WHAT YOU COULD EXPECT OUT THERE.
AND THAT WILL HELP DRIVE, UH, SOME OF OUR ANALYSIS IN TERMS OF WHAT'S, WHAT'S NEEDED FROM THE, FOR THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR.
NO MORE QUESTIONS FOR, UH, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
WHERE'D YOU COME, STAN? GOOD LUCK.
ALL, UH, NEXT OF BUSINESS WOULD BE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CERTIFICATION AND RECOMMENDED A RECOMMENDATION.
I'M GIVING YOU THE SPREADSHEET.
THIS IS ALMOST THE SAME SPREADSHEET I GAVE Y'ALL AT THE LAST WORK SESSION.
WHAT IS IN RED ARE THE ADDITIONAL CHANGES THAT WE DISCUSSED DURING THAT LAST WORK SESSION.
AND I MEAN, AS YOU COULD SEE, IT'S A BIT REDUNDANT, BUT YOU KNOW, THE SCALE BARS DON'T APPEAR TO BE ACCURATE.
UM, REMOVING THE EAST AND WEST CONNECTOR BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S ABOUT, UM, THERE'S A LITTLE PIECE OF THE RIVER THAT NEEDS TO COME OFF IN SOME OF THE MAPS.
UM, AND THEN IN GENERAL, YOU KNOW, JUST MAKING SURE THAT THE MAPS IN THE, UM, LAND USE AREAS AND THE PLANNING DISTRICTS MATCH THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP.
SO WHEN I HAVE MY MEETING WITH SUMMIT, I WILL ASK THEM TO JUST RE-EXPORT THE MAPS FROM THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP INTO THOSE CHAPTERS.
UM, BUT TONIGHT I JUST WANTED TO VERIFY THAT WE ARE GOOD WITH THE CHANGES ON THIS SPREADSHEET.
AND IF SO, THEN MY RECOMMENDATION OR WHAT I'M ASKING IS THAT PLANNING COMMISSION GIVE US THE AUTHORIZATION TO ADVERTISE FOR PUBLIC HEARING AND CERTIFY THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WITH THE CHANGES THAT STAFF IS GOING TO ASK SUMMIT TO MAKE.
SO ALONG WITH THE SPREADSHEET CHANGES THAT'S INCLUSIVE OF THESE TWO PAGES, WHICH ARE OUR FUTURE LAND USE CATEGORIES AND WITH THE DESCRIPTIONS THAT WE AMENDED AT THE LAST MEETING.
DO I NEED TO SAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN SO MOVED
I DON'T WANNA, I DON'T WANNA DISRESPECT THE NEED FOR ADDITIONAL CONVERSATION, BUT I, I'M VERY THANKFUL FOR WHAT'S HAPPENED HERE AND I, AND I GIVEN THE, GIVEN THE LIVING DOCUMENT REPRESENTATION OF WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH HERE, IF, IF CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE ALONG WAY, WE CAN DO THAT.
BUT I, I, THAT, THAT MIGHT, AM I ALLOWED TO SAY THAT? AM I ALLOWED TO JUST SAY SO MOVE? YEAH.
SO YOU DON'T, WE DON'T NEED EMOTIONS AT WORK SESSION.
BUT THAT'S YOUR, BUT YEAH, WE GET IT.
WHATEVER GETS THIS DANG THING TO TOWN COUNCIL IS WHAT I, IS WHAT I'M ASKING.
SO YOU'RE MOVING YOUR MOVE YOUR, I SUGGEST THAT WE AS A PLANNING COMMISSION MOVE THIS ALONG AS MS. KAKI RECOMMENDS.
THE, THE ONLY THING THAT, THAT I, I I LOVE YOUR IDEA LEAVING.
BUT THE POINT YOU MADE ABOUT PUTTING INTO THE PLAN, THE, UH, THE WIDENING 55 EVEN AS AN ASPIRATIONAL THING WAY DOWN THE ROAD, WE CAN ADD THAT IN.
I CAN ADD THAT CAN'T THAT BE ADDED IN AS PART OF THE LIVING DOCUMENT? WELL, IT, IT CAN BE ADDED IN DOWN THE ROAD OR IT CAN BE ADDED IN NOW.
UM, WE DO NOT HAVE IT ON OUR CIPT RIGHT NOW.
SO HONESTLY, ONE WAY TO DO THIS, I THINK WHEN WE DO THE CIP P THIS FALL, THAT MIGHT BE THE BEST TIME TO TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE BY THEN WE SHOULD HAVE THE JOINT STUDY DONE WITH VDOT AND THEN THAT GIVES STAFF AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK WITH THEM MORE ABOUT FEASABILITY AND WHAT DOES LOOK LIKE.
PUT IT IN CIP P YOU KNOW, COST ESTIMATE COMES ALONG WITH THAT.
BUT THE 55 EXTENSION ISN'T ANYTHING 55 BROADENING.
AND I WANNA SEE THAT HAPPEN TOO.
IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT AREA.
BUT WE WORK WITH VDOT JUST ON TRANSPORTATION ISSUES IN GENERAL SO THAT, THAT PARTICULAR STUDY IS JUST FOR, FOR THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR.
BUT THAT DOESN'T EXCLUDE ME HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM AND GIVE THIS GENTLEMAN MADE ABOUT THE COST FEASIBILITY.
RIGHT NOW, I I, I'M, I'M WITH YOU.
BUT THE REALITY OF IT HAPPENING ANYTIME SOON IS, OH, WELL I'M NOT SAYING WE PUT IT ON.
[00:45:01]
THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING I THINK, I THINK WE CAN ADD AS PART OF THE LIVING DOCUMENT, DON'T FORGET IT.AND YOU KNOW, AND IT'S GONNA GO THROUGH OUR PUBLIC MM-HMM.
BUT CAN WE ADVERTISE IT? WILL IT BE IN TWO WEEKS? YEAH.
SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS WE CAN ADD IT A, YOU KNOW, WIDENING OF 55, WE CAN ADD IT INTO OUR TRANSPORTATION PLAN.
BUT THEN WHAT I'M SAYING IS LIKE WE FLUSH IT OUT BETTER THIS FALL WHEN WE DO C I P, THIS BOARD IS HIGHLY, THEY RECOMMEND BECAUSE I DON'T, MY CONCERN IS I DON'T WANNA JUST THROW IT ON THERE AND THEN WE HAVE NO OTHER NOTHING ELSE BACK INFORMATION.
I WANNA HAVE INITIAL CONVERSATION.
WHERE, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? WE'RE GONNA IMPROVE THIS TO MOVE ALONG.
WE HAVE TO HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING FIRST.
CAN WE HAVE THAT IN TWO WEEKS? YES, WE CAN.
WE HAVE, WE ALREADY ADVERTISED.
SO THAT WOULD BE THE 19TH MOVE THIS SINGLE OFF.
SO WHAT THE PUBLIC HEARING THERE, UM, AND I, I WOULD ASK THAT YOU GUYS CERTIFY IT AT THAT MEETING AND THEN MOVE IT ALONG TO TOWN COUNCIL IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT.
UM, AND THEN AT THAT, AFTER TODAY, LIKE TOMORROW, I'M GONNA REACH OUT TO SUMMIT AND SET UP A TIME, GO OVER THE CHANGES THAT WE WANNA MAKE.
I DON'T THINK THAT THEY WILL HAVE THOSE CHANGES DONE BY THE TIME YOUR MEETING COMES ALONG, BUT IF YOU CERTIFY IT WITH THE FOLLOWING CHANGES AND WE HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC LIST, COUNSEL WILL THEN VERIFY THAT THOSE CHANGES ARE MADE AND THE DOCUMENT IS PUBLIC.
I DON'T THINK ANYTHING, I DON'T SEE HOW ANYTHING WOULD HAPPEN CHANGE WISE THAT THIS BOARD WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO VERIFY.
CAN YOU KINDLY WRITE HOW THAT MOTION SHOULD, I WILL WRITE IT VERBATIM MR. DISCUSSION AND EVENT, HOW WE COULDN'T DISCUSS IT ANYMORE.
SO WE'RE GOOD ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WE'LL ADVERTISE IT FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING.
APRIL THE 19TH, WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ORDER OF BUSINESS, WHICH WOULD BE 2 360 1.
THE AMENDMENT TO CHAPTER 1 75, 1 37.
THE PHOENIX CHARGE IN EXPENSES FOR THE TOWN OF THE FRONT ROYAL ZONING ORDINANCE TO ADD THE APPLICATION FEE OF $400.
DO YOU HAVE THIS DOCUMENT? UH, YES.
DO, YEAH, WE HAVE IT ON THE, OKAY.
SO AS MR YOU ALL KNOW WE'VE ADOPTED PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE.
UM, IN ORDER FOR US TO HAVE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE, WE HAVE TO HAVE A MECHANISM OF APPEAL.
UM, SO THE STATE CODE ASKS THAT WE CREATE A LOCAL BUILDING CODE, BOARD OF APPEALS ORDER.
THE PROCESS, THE APPEALS, WE HAVE TO CHARGE FEE.
SO I AM ASKING FOR A TEXT AMENDMENT TO ADD THAT FEE TO OUR SCHEDULE OF FEES, WHICH IS LOCATED IN 1 75, 1 37 OF TOWN COUNTY.
IF I'M ABOUT TO GO DOWN A RABBIT HOLE, PLEASE STOP ME,
DOES THIS IN ANY WAY HELP US TO DEAL WITH SL BOARDS IN OUR TOWN IN SENSE? YES.
THIS BOARD IS FOR PROPERTY MAINTENANCE APPEALS.
SO IF WE SEND A CITATION AND THEY WANT TO APPEAL IT, THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT.
THIS IS THE MECHANISM BEFORE THAT APPEALS TAKE PLACE.
LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'RE READY FOR ME TO MOVE.
I MOVE EXACTLY WHAT SHE JUST SAID.
ANY OTHER BUSINESS? DID, DID WE, WEREN'T WE, WERE WE ADDRESSING THE
SO I'M, THIS THE WORK SESSION.
SO WE'RE DONE WITH, IS THERE ANY NEW DEVELOPMENT UNDER QUESTIONS? WELL, WE'RE ABOUT TO GO TO PUBLIC HEARING FOR IT.
SO, SO THE POOR VAN REMAINS UNBURIED.