[00:00:05]
[I. CALL TO ORDER]
I'D LIKE TO CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER FOR THE FRONT ROW PLANNING COMMISSION FOR OUR REGULAR MEETING THIS FEBRUARY THE 15TH, 2023.MS. POTTER, COULD YOU GIVE US A ROLL CALL? COMMISSIONER WELLS HERE.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS PRESENT.
[III. ADDITION/DELETION OF ITEMS FROM THE AGENDA]
ITEM THREE, ADDITION OR DELETION OF ITEMS TO THE AGENDA? UM, I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO ADD THE ELECTION OF OUR OFFICERS TONIGHT THAT WILL BE PLACED IF NO OBJECTION ON NEW BUSINESS.[IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
ITEM FOUR.THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM JANUARY THE 18TH, 2023.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE TO APPROVE.
SECOND, WE, WE HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
AND A SECOND FOR THE MINUTES OF JANUARY THE 18TH, 2023.
MS. POTTER, A ROLL CALL PLEASE.
ITEM FIVE TONIGHT IS, UH, WE SET ASIDE A SHORT PERIOD OF EACH MEETING FOR CITIZEN COMMENTS.
UH, THIS IS A PERIOD, UM, UH, WHEN WE WILL, UM, UH, ENTERTAIN THOUGHTS AND COMMENTS FROM OUR GREAT CITIZENS.
UH, THIS IS NOT IN REFERENCE TO ANY PUBLIC HEARING COMMENTS.
UH, WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING.
UH, WE'RE GONNA HOLD AFTER THIS.
THIS IS NOT, UH, THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THAT OR, OR THE PUBLIC COMMENT SESSION FOR THAT.
DO WE HAVE ANYBODY THAT WISHES TO SPEAK TO US TONIGHT IN THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION? ANYONE WISH TO SPEAK? GOING TWICE.
THE COMMENT SECTION FOR CITIZENS IS CLOSED.
[VI. CONSENT AGENDA]
NEXT ORDER OF A BUSINESS, FELLOW COMMISSIONERS IS OUR CONSENT AGENDA.WE HAVE ONE ITEM ON OUR CONSENT AGENDA, WHICH WE WILL, UH, IF APPROVED TONIGHT.
WE WILL REVIEW IT AT OUR MARCH THE FIRST WORK SESSION, AND WE WILL HOLD A PUBLIC HEARING ON IT ON THE MARCH 15TH.
DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA? SO MOVED.
ANY DISCUSSION ON THE CONSENT? HEARING NONE.
MS. POTTER, COULD YOU GO A ROLL CALL? VOTE FOR OUR CONSENT AND AGENDA, PLEASE.
THE CONSENT AGENDA HAS BEEN APPROVED.
[VII. PUBLIC HEARING]
ITEM SEVEN TONIGHT IS OUR PUBLIC HEARING.UH, THIS IS, UH, IN REFERENCE TO APPLICATION NUMBER 23 0 21, A SPECIAL OR A REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A COMMERCIAL OUTDOOR RECREATION FACILITY LOCATED AT 1847 NORTH ROYAL AVENUE.
UM, THE ORDER OF BUSINESS FOR OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS.
UH, WE WILL ASK, UH, STAFF TO COMMENT ON THE APPLICATION, UH, TO GIVE US THEIR STAFF REPORT.
UH, WE WILL THEN ASK THE APPLICANT IF HE WISHES TO SPEAK, UH, WE'LL GIVE HIM THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT HIS HIS APPLICATION.
WE WILL THEN OPEN THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION.
UH, FOR THOSE THAT HAVE SIGNED UP, UM, WE ASK THAT YOU LIMIT YOUR COMMENTS TO AROUND THREE MINUTES.
UM, THE PURPOSE OF, OF THE PUBLIC HEARING IS WE, WE WISH TO HEAR YOUR COMMENTS REGARDING THIS APPLICATION.
UH, IT'S REALLY NOT A QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION, BUT, UH, WE, WE TRUST THAT YOU'VE HAD TO
[00:05:01]
OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THE APPLICATION AND WANT TO MAKE YOUR COMMENTS ON IT.AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF OUR MEETING TONIGHT.
WE ASKED, AS YOU DIRECT ALL OF YOUR COMMENTS TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
UH, DO NOT ASK ANY QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT OR STAFF UNLESS DIRECTED BY THE CHAIR.
UM, AT THIS TIME, UH, MR. ROBERT SEAK IS OUR FIRST SPEAKER TONIGHT.
OH, WHAT'S THAT? OH, EXCUSE ME.
SEE, I, I DON'T FOLLOW MY OWN INSTRUCTIONS SOMETIMES.
UH, LET, LET'S GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING.
WE WILL NOW HAVE STAFF GIVE US THE, UM, UH, STAFF REPORT ON THIS APPLICATION.
UM, THIS APPLICATION FOR 1847 NORTH ROYAL AVENUE WAS SUBMITTED BY J AND J SHORES PROPERTY.
THEY ARE, ARE REQUESTING A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO OPERATE A OR AN OUTDOOR RECREATION FACILITY OFFERING INNER TUBING, CANOE KAYAK RENTALS WITH SHUTTLE SERVICE, BOAT RENTAL, AND RUSTIC AND LIGHT CAMPING FACILITIES.
UM, YOUR APPLICATION, UH, INCLUDED THE STATEMENT OF JUSTIFICATION, THE PROPOSED ACTIVITIES, UM, FUTURE POTENTIAL ACTIVITIES, TRANSPORTATION ROUTES, A FLOOD ACTION PLAN, TRANSPORTATION MAPS, A SURVEY PLAT, AND A SITE PLAN.
SO THIS IS AN 11.44 ACRE PARCEL LOCATED NEAR THE INTERSECTION OF NORTH ROYAL AVENUE IN DEPOT AVENUE.
AND IT IS SITUATED ENTIRELY IN THE FEMA FLOOD PLAY ZONE.
UM, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING THAT THEIR PEAK SEASON WOULD BE FROM MEMORIAL DAY TO LABOR DAY.
THEIR BUSIEST DAYS ARE SATURDAYS AND SUNDAYS, AND THEIR HIGHEST PROJECTED VOLUME WOULD BE THE THIRD WEEK OF JUNE UNTIL, UH, THE THIRD WEEK OF AUGUST.
SO ESSENTIALLY SUMMER VACATION, UH, IN THE, THE PHOTO HERE, UH, SHOWS YOU THE, THE SITE AS IT CURRENTLY EXISTS.
UM, THIS BRIDGE OR, UM, OVERPASS OVER THE RAILROAD IS HOW THE SITE IS ACCESSED.
THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY HAVE THE CAPACITY TO SERVE A THOUSAND RIVER USERS PER DAY FROM 8:00 AM TO 7:00 PM UH, THE GUESTS WOULD HAVE TO MAKE RESERVATIONS, AND THAT SHOULD ACCOUNT FOR ABOUT 90% OF THE VOLUME, AND IT WOULD ANTICIPATE IT MOST A THREE OR FOUR CAR BACKUP.
UM, AND THE SITES HERE ON THIS MAP SHOW WHERE THE, UM, SHUTTLES WOULD TAKE THE, UM, THE PEOPLE USING THE FACILITY.
SO THEY WOULD BE DROPPED OFF AT EASTON PARK, THIS CARRO PUBLIC BOAT LANDING.
AND THEN SHENANDOAH STATE PARK.
THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY 52 PARKING SPACES OF THAT EXISTED, UM, WHEN THE SITE WAS USED BY THE VFW.
AND THERE'S A PAVILION AND BATH HOUSES THERE.
BATHROOMS, UH, CURRENTLY THERE, UH, THE APPLICANT DID PROVIDE A, AN INITIAL SITE PLAN SHOWING THE BREAKDOWN OF HOW THE SITE WOULD BE USED.
SO YOU HAVE TENT CAMPING SITES ALONG THE RIVER.
YOU HAVE RIVER ACCESS, AND THEN THERE'S THE, UM, THE PAVILION AREA AND PARKING AREAS AS WELL.
DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF AT THIS TIME? OKAY, THANK YOU.
UH, AT THIS TIME, IF THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO GIVE A PRESENTATION, PLEASE COME FORWARD.
THANK YOU, MRS. KOSKI, CHAIRMAN, VICE CHAIRMAN AND COMMISSIONERS.
UM, YEAH, SPEAKING OF THAT, IF YOU CAN YES.
THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING MY APPLICATION.
I HAVE, UM, LET'S JUST GO BACK IN TIME A LITTLE BIT.
I HAVE HAD A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE VFW THAT GOES BACK TO MY RECOLLECTION, CLOSE TO 15 YEARS.
UM, WE HAD, ORIGINALLY I RAN A NONPROFIT OR INVOLVED WITH SOME RIVER CONSERVATION ORGANIZATIONS THAT, THAT RAN EVENTS DOWN THERE.
I BECAME FAMILIAR WITH THE PROPERTY, UM, FELL IN LOVE WITH THE LOCATION.
UH, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT ABOUT A QUARTER MILE OF RIVERFRONT.
UH, WE USED TO DO RIVER BOATING EVENTS, CANOEING EVENTS, AND, UM, AND, UH, ACTIVITIES IN THE PAVILION.
UH, AND IT'S JUST A LOVELY SITE.
IT'S A NICE ASSET FOR THE TOWN.
AND SOMETIME AROUND FIVE YEARS AGO, UH, THIS IS AFTER THE ACCIDENT THAT, UH, CAUSED THE, THE LOSS OF THE VFWS, UH, MEETING LOCATION.
UM, AND THEN THEIR DECISION THAT THEY WERE GONNA BE UNABLE TO REBUILD.
UM, I PURSUED A POTENTIAL PURCHASE OF THE PROPERTY, WHICH CAME TO FRUITION SEPTEMBER, A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.
UM, DURING THAT PROCESS, IT WAS IMPORTANT TO ME TO WORK
[00:10:01]
WITH THE VFW TO CONTINUE TO, FOR THEM TO BE PRESENT ON THE PROPERTY.UM, I GOT QUITE CLOSE WITH THE, UH, COMMANDER AND THE LEGAL, UH, GENTLEMAN WHO, DAVID KAPLAN, WHO PROVIDED LEGAL COUNSEL FOR THE VFW.
UM, AND I WORKED WITH THEM, TRIED TO FIGURE OUT A WAY FOR THEM TO CONTINUE TO USE THE PROPERTY BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A HOME YET.
I KNOW THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO FIND A HOME.
AND OUR HOPE WAS THAT, UM, SINCE THEY WERE, THEY DETERMINED THAT THEY WERE UNABLE TO REBUILD HERE, THAT A PURCHASE WOULD GIVE THEM THE CASH TO BE ABLE TO FIND A NEW LOCATION.
AND I ALSO CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED TO A COUPLE THINGS TO THE VFW, UM, WHICH ARE IMPORTANT, I THINK TO ME AND TO THE COMMUNITY, IS I, I GAVE THEM PERPETUAL USE OF THE PROPERTY FOR EVENTS AND GATHERINGS AND MEMBERS.
UM, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THEY'VE BEEN THERE FOR GENERATIONS, AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO ME THAT THEY CONTINUE TO BE INVOLVED IN THAT PROPERTY DOWN THERE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER I'M RUNNING A BUSINESS THERE OR NOT.
UM, THE OTHER THING THAT I OBLIGATED WAS, UH, THAT ANY BUSINESS THAT OPERATES ON THE PROPERTY WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DONATE, UH, PERCENTAGE, 1% OF THEIR REVENUE OFF THE TOP TO THE VFW TO CREATE A REVENUE SOURCE FOR THEM, UM, SO THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE TO OPERATE AND HAVE A, UM, HAVE A, A BUDGET TO DO SO UNTIL THEY, IN SUCH TIME AS THEY'RE ABLE TO FIND A LOCATION IN, IN PERPETUITY.
UM, SO WE WERE SUCCESSFUL IN DOING THAT, AND WE MADE THE SUCCESSFUL BID TO PURCHASE A PROPERTY.
AND THE REASON THAT I PURSUED THIS PROPERTY WAS NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF MY EXPERIENCE DOING EVENTS DOWN THERE, AND, UM, BUT IT, IT IS WHAT I, IN MY MIND, I CALLED A RIVER RECREATIONAL BUSINESS OUT OF A BOX.
IT'S GOT REALLY PRETTY RIVERFRONT.
IT ALREADY HAS THE ASSETS THAT I NEED.
IT HAS A BATHHOUSE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN CONSTRUCTED.
IT HAS A PAVILION THAT'S 40 FEET BY 80 FEET.
AND I, MYSELF HAVE HAD EVENTS WHERE I'VE HAD OVER 200 PEOPLE UNDER THERE.
AND SO I KNOW I CAN HOUSE PEOPLE IN THE EVENT OF BAD WEATHER, UM, QUITE NICELY.
AND, UM, AND BEING IN THE FLOODPLAIN PREVENTED A PRETTY UNIQUE CHALLENGE TO ANY BUSINESS WANTING TO OPERATE THERE.
AND SO, SOME TIME AGO, THIS WAS PRIOR TO, UM, MS. KIKI'S, UH, TENURE IN THE, UM, IN THE ZONING OFFICE.
UM, I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO, UH, DESIGN A BUSINESS THAT WAS ALL REMOTE, THAT W THAT REQUIRED NO PERMANENT STRUCTURES OTHER THAN WHAT WAS THERE.
AND THAT WAS ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO.
AND SINCE THEN, I BECAME AN OWNER AND AN OPERATOR OF A BUSINESS IN HARPERS FERRY THAT HAS AN EXACT BUSINESS, LIKE I HOPE TO RUN HERE.
UM, IT WAS BY COINCIDENCE IN MILLVILLE, WEST VIRGINIA, THERE'S A REMOTE SITE THAT'S QUITE A BIT SMALLER THAN THIS, THAT WE RAN AN INNER TUBING OPERATION FROM VERY SUCCESSFULLY.
AND WE JUST USED TRUCKS AND BUSES AND TRAILERS TO TRANSPORT PEOPLE AND TO HOLD OUR EQUIPMENT.
AND IT WORKS FAMOUSLY, ANYTIME THERE'S A CONCERN OVER HIGH WATER, WE JUST MOVE THEM OUT.
UM, AND IT ALSO IS EASE, PEACE OF MIND FOR AN OWNER, NOT WORRIED ABOUT EVERYTHING BECOMING LITTER IN THE RIVER, YOU KNOW, HAZARD, YOU KNOW, IN, IN FLOOD CONDITIONS.
UM, SO WHEN I PUT TOGETHER MY APPLICATION, I TRIED TO THINK THROUGH THE, WHAT WOULD BE THE POTENTIAL PINCHING POINTS OR DIFFICULTIES WITH THE PROPERTY.
SOME OF THE THINGS I IDENTIFIED WERE THE PASSAGEWAY UNDER THE RAILROAD, WHICH IS A, UM, WOULD BE A NATURAL CONCERN FOR BOTH THE COMMISSION AND TOWNSPEOPLE.
I, AS, AS I MENTIONED IN MY, UM, REPORT, I DID A STUDY ON BAKER ROAD IN WEST VIRGINIA, WHICH, UM, SUPPORTS THREE OUTFITTERS AND SEEMS TO BE A WORSE CONDITION THAN WE HAVE, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THAN THE ONE HERE IN FRONT ROYAL.
AND, UM, IN THE TIME THAT I SPENT VIDEOTAPING IT AND STUDYING IT, AND ACTUALLY OPERATING A BUSINESS, RUNNING BUSES WITH TRAILERS THROUGH THERE, THERE'S NEVER BEEN A BACKUP OF MORE THAN TWO OR THREE PEOPLE.
IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF A, IF A STOPLIGHT TURNS GREEN AND A BUNCH OF PEOPLE COME, YOU KNOW, THEY MOVE THROUGH AND THEY BACK UP.
BUT THERE'S NO RESIDUAL LONG-TERM BACKUPS EVEN DURING RUSH HOUR OR EVEN IN THE INTERSECTION OF RUSH HOUR AND THE BUSY TIMES OF THE OUTFIT OUTFITTER BUSINESS.
AND SO, UM, I'M NOT TAKING IT OFF MY LIST OF CONCERNS, BUT I FEEL LIKE, UM, THE SCOPE OF THE SIZE OF THE BUSINESS THAT I HAVE IS GONNA BE WAY UNDER WHAT THE CAPACITY IS ONCE I DID THE ACTUAL NUMBERS.
UM, I DON'T THINK WE'RE GONNA APPROACH MORE THAN 25% OF WHAT I THINK THE HOURLY CAPACITY IS OF, OF PASSAGE THROUGH THAT LOCATION.
UM, SO FLOODPLAIN WAS A CONCERN.
UM, THE, THE PROPERTY IS FAIRLY ISOLATED.
IT DOES HAVE THE RAILROAD EMBANKMENT AND A LARGE RAILROAD, YOU KNOW, EMBANKMENT IN BETWEEN AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD, UM, AND, AND A FAIR AMOUNT OF DISTANCE.
THE BUSINESS INHERENTLY IS VERY QUIET BUSINESS.
THE NOISE THAT'S CREATED IS RELATED TO CAMPERS TALKING AND OCCASIONALLY LIGHT MUSIC.
UM, IN THE CAMPGROUND THAT I RUN IN HARPERS FERRY OR THAT I RAN, UH, UP UNTIL OCTOBER OF THIS LAST YEAR IN HARPERS FERRY, WE NEVER HAD A SINGLE NOISE COMPLAINT.
WE HAD POLICIES IN PLACE FOR QUIET HOURS.
I WOULD, I WOULD IMPLEMENT THE SAME THINGS HERE.
AND THE CAMPING IS A, A PIECE THAT IS A NATURAL COMPLIMENT TO THE RIVER RECREATIONAL BUSINESS.
BOTH, MOSTLY PEOPLE WANT TO COME AND, AND SPEND SOME TIME IN NATURE,
[00:15:01]
DO A LITTLE RIVER TRIP, AND THEN SPEND THE NIGHT.UM, AND THEN THAT'S WHY I CONSIDER IT LIKE LIGHTER PRIMITIVE CAMPING.
ALL OF THE CAMPING THAT I'M PROPOSING WILL BE WITHIN THE HEALTH, UM, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT'S GUIDELINES, WHICH GENERALLY IS A RATIO OF, UH, CAMPSITE TO LATRINES OR BATHROOMS THAT USE TOILETS.
AND, UM, WHILE PRIMITIVE CAMPING, YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO PROVIDE A PERMANENT TOILET.
YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE EITHER A PORTABLE TOILET OR A PERMANENT TOILET.
UM, SHOWERS AND SINKS OR LABORATORIES ARE OPTIONAL, BUT WE WILL MOST LIKELY MAKE THE, UM, WE'LL CREATE SHOWERS IN THE EXISTING SPACE WITHIN THE, UM, WITHIN THE BATHHOUSE IF I DEEMED THAT THERE'S A DEMAND FOR 'EM.
THE OTHER THING IS, UM, WHAT WE'VE DONE IN THE OTHER BUSINESS THAT IRAN WAS, WE HAD JUST EXTERNAL SHOWERS, JUST A, THE PLUMBING WE USED, THE EXISTING PLUMBING CREATED A LITTLE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE SHIELD AREA, AND JUST HAVE PEOPLE BE ABLE TO PULL A MECHANISM TO RINSE OFF.
AND THAT'S MOST OF WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO DO.
PEOPLE AREN'T STAYING VERY LONG.
THEY'RE STAYING A COUPLE NIGHTS MOST OF THE TIME.
UM, FIVE DAYS WOULD BE A REALLY LONG STAY FOR ANYBODY BECAUSE YOU JUST RUN OUT OF THINGS TO DO.
YOU KNOW, YOU TUBING, MAYBE YOU DO A COUPLE TIMES GO PADDLING, UM, AND FISHING, BUT USUALLY IT'S A, YOU KNOW, ONE, TWO, AND THREE NIGHT RESERVATIONS.
AND SO, AND, UM, I WAS ASKED JUST AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING, IF I HAD THOUGHT ABOUT THE SCOPE OF THE CAN SITES I'D, MY GUESS IS THE SWEET SPOT IS GONNA BE AROUND 25, BUT I WOULDN'T WANNA BE LIMITED TO THAT.
I WOULD WANT TO MAYBE HAVE THE LIMIT UP AROUND 75.
UM, IT'S GONNA KIND OF DEPEND ON HOW I LAY OUT THE SITES AND WHETHER I JUST USE THE, THE BLUE AREA ALONG THE RIVER, OR IF I ALSO POTENTIALLY USE THE GREEN AREA FOR PEOPLE THAT WANNA ACTUALLY DRIVE THEIR CAR TO THE CAMPSITE.
IN, IN OUR OTHER BUSINESS, A LOT OF CAMPERS REALLY LIKE TO HAVE THEIR CAR RIGHT NEXT TO THEM.
I THINK THEY LIKE TO CHARGE THEIR PHONES AND, YOU KNOW, BRING GEAR IN AND OUT OF THE CAR.
AND I THINK IT'S KIND OF A COMFORT THING FOR THEM.
SO IT WOULD, UM, WHILE SOME PEOPLE WILL BE MORE PRIMITIVE DOWN BY THE RIVERFRONT, I THINK SOME PEOPLE MIGHT BE HAPPIER IN THE AREA THAT WE PUT AS POTENTIAL RV.
UM, IN TERMS OF RVS, WE, WE GET AN OCCASIONAL REQUEST FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE WANTING TO DO RIVER ACTIVITIES, WHO ARE ON VACATION, WHO WANNA BRING AN RV.
I DON'T REALLY WANT AN RV CAMPSITE, BUT I WOULD HATE TO TURN SOMEBODY AWAY WHO HAD A SMALL MOBILE RV AND WANTED TO COME STAY A COUPLE NIGHTS.
AND THAT'S WHY I'VE IDENTIFIED THESE AREAS.
I DON'T PLAN TO HAVE THEM HOOKED UP TO SEWAGE.
UM, I, I PLAN TO JUST HAVE THEM BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE BATHHOUSE IF THEY NEED TO.
UM, ELECTRICITY, UH, AT THE MOMENT, I DON'T HAVE PLANS FOR THAT, BUT I MIGHT ADD ELECTRICITY FOR, THEY CAN PLUG IN THEIR CAMPERS.
BUT RIGHT NOW THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE HAVE WOULD SUPPORT THE BUSINESSES.
I SEE IT AT LEAST FOR THE FIRST 10 YEARS.
UM, AND, UH, ADDITIONALLY I DID IN MY, UM, IN MY PRESEN IN MY APPLICATION, I TALKED ABOUT SOME POTENTIAL FUTURE USES.
I SHOULD PROBABLY TALK ABOUT ONE OF OF THEM, WHICH IS THE POTENTIAL FOR A RAIL TO TRAIL PROJECT.
UM, WHICH IS, HAS AN UNKNOWN FUTURE, UH, CONTINUE TO GET UPDATES IF IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S POSITIVE MOVEMENT THAT THEY HAVE.
UM, THEY HAVE MONEY IN THE BUDGET TO ACQUIRE THE RAILROAD, THEIR NEGOTIATIONS, AND ARE VERY, VERY CLOSE TO A PURCHASE OF THE PROPERTY.
VDOT HAS COMMITTED SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS TO DESIGNING, UH, ELEMENTS FOR THE RAIL TO TRAIL PROJECT ALREADY.
UM, SO IN THE, LIKE, IN A POTENTIAL LIKELIHOOD FOR THAT HAPPENING, I DELINEATED AN EASEMENT ACROSS THE PROPERTY, WHICH I'D BE HAPPY TO FINALIZE WITH ANY AUTHORITY THAT IS NEEDS TO FINALIZE AN EASEMENT IN ORDER TO PROCEED WITH THE PROJECT.
I BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE A BENEFIT TO A, A BUSINESS SUCH AS MINE THAT'S IN, IN THE BUSINESS OF SEASONAL RECREATION.
UM, I'D LOVE TO HAVE HIKERS AND BIKERS CROSSING MY PROPERTY.
UM, THEY MIGHT STOP AND DO A TRIP OR STAY OVERNIGHT.
UM, AND CERTAINLY A GOOD BUSINESS PERSON WOULD, WOULD ALSO PROBABLY DEVELOP, UH, BUSINESS THAT SUPPORTS THE HIKERS AND BIKERS EITHER IN THE TERMS OF SHUTTLE SERVICES, BIKE REPAIR, MAYBE BIKE RENTAL.
AND SO THERE COULD BE A FUTURE FOR SEASONAL RECREATION AROUND THIS.
UM, WE HAVE THE ANDREAS HERE, THEY'RE MY NEIGHBOR, UM, ON THE RIPARIAN PROPERTY THAT IS, UH, THAT RUNS BETWEEN, UM, THE ROYAL AVENUE AND GOES ABOUT A MILE, A MILE AND A QUARTER UPSTREAM TO, UM, I FORGET THE NAME OF THE PROPERTY THAT IT'S ADJACENT TO, IF YOU COULD.
IT'S ALMOST, IT ALMOST GOES TO DONNIE PO'S, UH, CAMPGROUND, JUST SHORT OF THAT.
AND, UM, AND WE HAVE A GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIP.
THEY HOPE TO BE INVOLVED IN THE RAIL TO TRAIL AND SUPPORTING THE RAIL TO TRAIL AS WELL WITH THEIR PROPERTY.
IF IN THE EVENT THAT THAT DOES BECOME, UH, AN ENTITY, UM, OTHER THAN THAT EVACUATION IN THE, IN THE POTENTIAL, WE WILL HAVE A FLOOD.
IF I RUN A BUSINESS FOR 10 YEARS, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A FLOOD.
I EXPECT TO BE ABLE TO TAKE EVERYTHING OUT.
AND SO EVERYTHING'S GONNA BE IN A MOBILE, EITHER ON A TRAILER OR IN A TRUCK, UM, WITH A KEY ON A RACK.
THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A, A FORECAST FOR, UH, WE HAVE UP THERE.
WE KNOW WHERE THE FORECASTS ARE AND WHAT THE LEVELS ARE, WHERE WE NEED TO EVACUATE.
AND I WOULD BE DEVELOPING THE SAME
[00:20:01]
THING FOR THIS PROPERTY, UM, WHERE WE WOULD JUST EVACUATE THE EXISTING TRUCKS AND, UM, TRAILERS TO HIGH, HIGH GROUND TEMPORARILY.AND WE HAVE THE FORTUNE OF BEING ON A MAINSTEM STREAM.
UH, WE DON'T GET FLASH FLOODING ON A STREAM OF THIS SIZE.
FLASH FLOODING WOULD, IS A MISNOMER FOR A MAINSTREAM PROPERTY.
WE HAVE MINIMUM OF 24 HOURS NOTICE, UH, IN THE EVENT OF RAIN THAT OCCURS ANYWHERE IN THE WATERSHED THAT WOULD, UH, IT FLOOD INTO THE LOCATION THAT PEOPLE ARE OCCUPYING.
WE WOULD HAVE 24 HOURS NOTICE, WHICH I CONSIDER VER UH, A LOT MORE THAN A LOT OF CAMPSITES HAVE, UM, EXAMPLES BEING THE CAMPSITE ON GOONY CREEK, WHICH IS ON A VERY FLASHY STREAM.
AND THEY HAVE TO BE EVEN MORE ALERT TO THE POTENTIAL FOR FLOODS.
AND THEY'VE HAD ISSUES BEFORE THIS SITE, UM, BECAUSE IT'S THE MAIN STEM CAN ABSORB A FLASH FLOOD IN A SMALL STREAM AND ONLY NOTICE A, A COUPLE FEET OF DIFFERENCE IN THE, IN THE ELEVATION OF THE FLOW.
UM, IT REQUIRES A, YOU KNOW, TO FLOOD THE, THE, THE SOUTH WORK AND THE SHENANDOAH GENERALLY REQUIRES SEVERAL INCHES THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE BASIN.
AND THOSE STORMS ARE USUALLY ANTICIP ACCOUNTABLE.
THEY'RE USUALLY LOW PRESSURE SYSTEMS, TROPICAL SYSTEMS. AND I'VE SPENT 24 YEARS OF MY CAREER, UH, ANTICIPATING THOSE AND WORKING AROUND THEM AS A FISHING GUIDE AND THEN AS RUNNING A CONSERVATION GROUP ON THE RIVER AND ALSO, UM, RUNNING AN OUTFITTING BUSINESS.
SO I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS.
IF ANYBODY THAT CAME TONIGHT HAS QUESTIONS FOR ME, I'D BE, I'D BE W HAPPY TO COME BACK UP TO THE PODIUM AND ANSWER THOSE.
IF YOU'RE FINISHED, WE WILL BRING YOU BACK AFTER THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION CUZ UM, I'M SURE THE COMMISSIONERS AND MYSELF WILL HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
NOW WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING AND MR. SEAK, IF YOU'LL COME FORWARD, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
MY ADDRESS IS 4 37 BELLAIRE AVENUE.
UH, COME TO SPEAK TO THE BOARD TONIGHT ABOUT THE REZONING OF THE OLD V F W PROPERTY.
UM, AS BEING A TOWN RESIDENT, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY FOR THE YOUTH, THERE'S NOT MUCH FOR THEM TO DO AROUND TOWN.
UH, THIS ADDS ANOTHER AVENUE FOR OUR YOUTH TO HAVE ACTIVITIES TO DO DURING THE SUMMER, EVEN ON THE WEEKENDS, DURING THE FALL AND EVEN LAKE SPRING.
UH, YOU KNOW, THE MORE WE CAN DO FOR OUR YOUTH, THE BETTER OFF WE ARE.
UM, ALSO SINCE THE VFW HAS ACTUALLY SOLD THE PROPERTY TO, UH, JEFF, UH, HE HAS ALREADY STARTED TO GIVE BACK TO THE COMMUNITY OF THE YOUTH.
AND HE HAS, WE HAVE SPOKEN IN DEPTH.
UH, HE HAS AREAS LAID OUT FOR CONTINUED YOUTH, UH, FOR YOUTH SPORTS TO PRACTICE DOWN THERE AT EITHER A FREE OR VERY LOW COST, UM, TO THESE ORGANIZATIONS WITH IS STILL GIVING BACK TO THE COMMUNITY, GIVING BACK TO THE YOUTH.
UM, AND THEN ALSO SPEAKING AS A PAST, UH, EMPLOYEE OF A CANOE AND RIVER OUTFITTER.
UH, DURING MY TIME WORKING AT A CANOE OUTFITTER HERE WITHIN THE COUNTY OUT IN BENTONVILLE, I HAVE NEVER SEEN STRETCHES OF THE RIVER THAT HAVE BEEN KEPT CLEAN AND MORE MAINTAINED THAN THE ONES THAT CANOE AND RIVER OUTFITTERS HAVE.
UM, I KNOW THE ONE THAT I WORKED AT PREVIOUSLY, UH, PART OF OUR JOB WAS TO WALK THE RIVER BANKS TO CLEAN.
AND I'M SURE THAT HE HAS THE SAME IDEA.
UM, IT, IT'S GONNA MAKE IT A LOT BETTER AREA.
IT'S GONNA DRAW MORE PEOPLE INTO THE TOWN, INTO THE COUNTY, YOU KNOW, WE ARE THE CANOE CAPITAL OF VIRGINIA.
WE NEED TO HAVE THESE CANOE AND RAFT AND TUBING FACILITIES WITHIN OUR TOWN.
AND IT'S ACTUALLY GONNA BE NICE THAT WE WILL HAVE ONE IN TOWN, NOT OUT IN THE COUNTY.
UM, MAN, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT.
ANDREA, WILL YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD? UH, MY NAME IS FRED ANDREA.
I'M LIVE AT, UH, 360 7 OVERALL ROAD, BENTONVILLE.
AND, UH, AS JEFF WAS SAYING, I, I OWN THE PROPERTY ADJACENT TO THIS PROPERTY AND, UM, AND I'M EXCITED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HIM HAVING THIS FACILITY RIGHT HERE.
I THINK IT'LL BE A WONDERFUL ASSET FOR THE TOWN AND COUNTY AS WELL.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LOT OF NEAT RESTAURANTS AND STUFF AROUND TOWN, AND THIS IS GONNA BE A REAL ADVANTAGE FOR THEM DRAWING PEOPLE INTO TOWN.
I MEAN, TOURISM IS SUCH A BIG PART OF, OF, YOU KNOW, OF THE INCOME OF THE C TOWN AND THE COUNTY.
[00:25:01]
THIS WILL BE A BE A BIG HELP FOR THAT.AND, UM, AND SO I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HIS COMING IN AND OFFERING THIS THING AT THIS POINT IN THIS AREA IN THE TOWN, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE EASTERN PARKING, SOME OF THE STUFF THAT'S AT THE FAR SOUTH END OF THE TOWN.
AND THIS WILL BE NICE TO HAVE SOMETHING AT THE NORTH END OF THE TOWN, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, A FACILITY.
IT'S EASIER TO GET TO FROM CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS THAN, THAN, UH, THAN THOSE EASTERN PARK AND SOME OF THE OTHER PLACES FARTHER SOUTH.
SO, UM, YEAH, I'M ALL FOR IT AND HOPE IT, HOPE IT ALL WORKS OUT.
OUR NEXT SPEAKER, MR. REHEARSAL FINCH.
I LIVE AT THREE 10 OAK RIDGE COURT, UH, DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM THE, UH, MIDDLE SCHOOL.
AND, UH, I HAD TO STOP AND FIGURE OUT HOW LONG I HAVE KNOWN JEFF KELBY, AND IT'S COMING UP ON 25 YEARS, IF YOU CAN BELIEVE THAT.
UM, I FIRST MET JEFF AS THE PRESIDENT OF THE POTOMAC RIVER, POTOMAC RIVER SMALL MOUTH CLUB.
AND, UH, SUBSEQUENTLY AS AN OWNER OF A BED AND BREAKFAST OPERATION OUT AND HIS GUIDE SERVICE OUT OF BOYS, UH, HE WAS ALSO THE ORIGINAL SHANDOR RIVER KEEPER AND BECAME, UH, PRESIDENT OF THE POTOMAC RIVER KEEPER NETWORK.
UH, IN THAT TIME, IN ALL THE NO YEARS I'VE KNOWN JEFF, UH, I'VE KNOWN HIM TO BE A MAN OF INTEGRITY AND HONESTLY, AND, UH, HE'S ALWAYS BEEN HONEST AND LOYAL WITH HIS FRIENDS, WITH HIS BUSINESS PARTNERS AND VOLUNTEERS WHO'VE WORKED FOR HIM IN HIS VARIOUS NONPROFIT, UH, ORGANIZATIONS.
UH, HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A VERY STRONG VOICE FOR, UH, THE PROTECTION OF OUR WATERSHED IN GENERAL AND IN THE SHENANDOAH RIVER IN PARTICULAR.
UH, WHEN, UH, THE ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE OF WHICH I'M A PART, UH, LEARNED OF JEFF'S PLANS FOR THE VFW PROPERTY, UH, WE BECAME PRETTY EXCITED BECAUSE, UH, WE WE INTENDED TO BE, UH, INVOLVED IN THE RAIL TO TRAIL EFFORT AND, UH, AND ALREADY ARE.
AND WHEN, UH, TALK, WHEN, UH, WE FOUND OUT THAT JEFF WAS GONNA DO, HAD PLANS FOR THAT PROPERTY, UM, WE GOT REAL EXCITED BECAUSE HAVING THAT AS DETERMINANTS FOR THE RAIL TO TRAIL, I, I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW MANY PEOPLE THIS IS GONNA ATTRACT, UH, INTO OUR TOWN AND, UH, THE BENEFIT THAT WE'RE GONNA SEE FROM IT.
SO, UH, I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.
IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS MATTER? ANYONE ELSE? SECOND CALL,
UH, FELLOW COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF OR THE APPLICANT? I HAVE, UM, A QUESTION AND A COUPLE THOUGHTS.
WHO WOULD YOU LIKE TO ASK IT OF? OF THE APPLICANT? YES.
UM, WE HAD TALKED ABOUT DURING OUR WORK SESSION ABOUT RVS, UM, AND THE CONCERN ABOUT LONG-TERM STAYS.
HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THIS ANYMORE? LIMITING STAYS IN RVS? I'D BE, I'D BE HAPPY TO LIMIT IT.
IN A WAY THAT THE COMMISSION FEELS THIS FIT.
UM, IN MY MIND, I THINK WHEN WE DISCUSSED IT IN THE WORK SESSION, WE TALKED ABOUT A RANGE OF MAYBE A WEEK OR TWO WEEKS.
I WOULD'VE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.
I'D HATE TO BE TURN SOMEONE AWAY WHO WANTED TO STAY FOR TWO WEEKS, BUT I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T WANT ANYBODY THERE LONGER THAN THAT
SO IF YOU ALL WANTED TO PUT A LIMIT ON THE NUMBER OF DAYS, I WOULD BE OKAY WITH THAT.
I MIGHT SUGGEST 14 DAYS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I WOULD CERTAINLY NOT WANT ANYBODY THERE LONGER THAN THAT.
AND I KNOW THAT YOU, UH, VERIFIED THE BATHHOUSE IS ALL ON TOWN WATER AND SEWER, SO THERE'S NO NOTHING GOING INTO THE GROUND.
THE TOWN APPRECIATES THAT FOR SURE.
CONCERNING RVS, UH, DO YOU PLAN TO HAVE A DUMP STATION THERE FOR THEM? WELL, IN READING THE HEALTH CODE, IT DOES REQUIRE ONE.
AND SO IF I WERE TO BEGIN TO OPEN IT UP TO RVS, WHICH I WOULD NOT DO IN THE BEGINNING, I'M JUST GONNA HAVE IT, I MEAN, AS A BUSINESS, I'M GONNA HAVE A LOT TO DO TO JUST GET THE RIVER RECREATION GOING.
UM, BUT IF AS, AS TIME GOES ON, IF I'M STARTING TO GET A LOT OF RV REQUESTS, I WOULD RESPOND TO THAT BY CREATING A DUMP STATION, BUILDING IT WITHIN THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF WHAT'S
[00:30:01]
ALREADY THERE WOULD PROBABLY BE IN THE VICINITY OF THE BATHHOUSE.AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S RULES ABOUT DISTANCE FROM FOOD SERVICE, DISTANCE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SHIELDING A CONCRETE PAD, ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS THAT ARE NATURAL, UM, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH HUMAN WASTE.
AND I WOULD OF COURSE DO ALL THOSE THINGS REQUIRED.
AND, UH, BUT I DON'T, I DON'T, NOT THAT AGAIN, I DON'T, I DON'T SEE DOING IT RIGHT NOW, BUT I DO WANNA HAVE THE ABILITY AND THE FLEXIBILITY AS A BUSINESS OWNER TO BE ABLE TO, UM, IF I'M STARTING TO GET A LOT OF REQUESTS FOR IT TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE GOOD PEOPLE WITH CAMPERS THAT WANT TO COME AND STAY AND NOT MAKE 'EM CHANGE INTO A TENT OR SOMETHING.
SO, WELL, MY, MY COMMENT WOULD BE, UM, A WELL THOUGHT OUT, WELL PREPARED PLAN THAT YOU PRESENTED TO, UM, TO US, UH, EVEN DOWN TO THE MINUTE DETAILS.
SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY, UM, YOU KNOW, THE TRAVEL OUT OF THERE, YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS, PEOPLE GOING DOWN, YOUR PEOPLE GOING DOWN NORTH ROYAL, MAKING A RIGHT ONTO FORD STREET, UH, 14TH STREET, MAKING A LEFT, AND ALWAYS BEING CONSIDERED CROSSING TRAFFIC WITH TRAILERS OR LARGE VEHICLES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, AND I'M ALSO HAPPY TONIGHT TO SEEING NOBODY IN A GALLERY FROM YOUR NEIGHBORS THAT THINK THAT THIS WOULD CREATE ANY KIND OF, UH, HORRENDOUS TRAFFIC SITUATION, WHICH I THINK THAT YOU'VE ADDRESSED THAT YOU ADDRESSED THAT VERY WELL TO US.
UM, AND, AND THE FACT THAT YOU'RE DEDICATING THIS TRAIL, UH, WE SEE GREAT POTENTIAL FOR THAT.
AND THAT WILL BE ANOTHER MAGNET TO DRAW MORE PEOPLE IN, I THINK IS MR. FINCH TOO.
SO CONGRATULATIONS ON A, A GREAT PLAN.
ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT OR STAFF? MR. CHAIRMAN? MR. WILLIAMS, FIRST OF ALL, I JUST MORE AS A COMMENT, UM, AS A GOOD OLD BOY WHO GREW UP IN, ALONG THE RAPPAHANNOCK RIVER AND WHO LIVED TO BE OUTSIDE, UH, IT'S EXCITING TO SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS IN ADDITION TO WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE COME INTO OUR TOWN.
UM, THE CLOSEST THING TO YOU WOULD BE, I THINK FRONT ROLL OUTDOORS BENTONVILLE, UM, AND SOMEONE WHO ORGANIZES TWO RIVER CLEANUPS A YEAR.
IT'S REALLY NICE TO SEE THAT WE NOW HAVE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY FOR A PLACE TO BE ABLE TO PARTNER WITH, TO, UH, WITH OUR YOUTH, UM, TO BE ABLE TO CLEAN THAT UP.
THE QUESTION I DO HAVE, YOU HAD MENTIONED, UM, POSSIBLY AS MANY AS 75, UM, UM, TENT UNITS.
HOW MANY, AND, AND I'M NOT, I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS WORKS, BUT HOW MANY, UH, TOILETS SLASH SHOWERS DO YOU HAVE ON SITE? THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.
UM, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT PROVIDES A GRID THAT GIVES YOU DIFFERENT LEVELS AS YOU ADD CAMPSITE AND YOU PASS A CERTAIN THRESHOLD.
I THINK THE FIRST THRESHOLD IS 16 AND THE SECOND THRESHOLD IS 32.
THE, THE 16 CAMPSITE THRESHOLD REQUIRES TWO EVEN.
AND IT HAS TO BE EVEN BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN.
UM, THE BATHHOUSE HAS TWO WOMEN'S AND TWO ENCLOSED FOR THE MEN, AND THEN TWO LATRINES.
SO I WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE SUITABLE FOR UP TO 16 SITES RIGHT NOW.
AS I UNDERSTAND THE, THE CODE, I'LL WANNA REVIEW IT AND I WOULDN'T WANT YOU JUST, CUZ I'M DOING IT FROM MEMORY, I WOULDN'T WANNA BE HELD TO THOSE NUMBERS, BUT THAT'S MY RECOLLECTION OF WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE.
SO IF I STARTED OUT, I WOULD START OUT WITH UNDER THE THRESHOLD.
UM, WHERE THAT CAN CHANGE IS THAT THE, THE HEALTH CODE ALLOWS YOU TO USE MOBILE TOILETS LIKE PORT JOHNS PORTA-POTTIES.
AND SINCE I'M DOING A RUSTIC CAMPING EXPERIENCE, I WOULD PROBABLY EMPLOY THOSE.
SO IF I WERE TO GO TO TO 30 SITES, I WOULD START TO ADD, I, I'M, I DON'T HAVE A WAY TO REALLY ADD A LOT OF NEW BATHROOMS INSIDE THE BATHHOUSE.
I'VE GOT ROOM FOR TWO ON THE MEN'S SIDE, I'M SORRY, ON THE WOMEN'S SIDE.
SO I COULD HAVE FOUR, SO I COULD ACCOMMODATE UP, UP TO 32, BUT I WOULD HAVE TO JUST CHANNEL SOME CONCRETE AND TIE INTO THE EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE TO ADD TO, UM, TWO MORE BATHS IN THE, IN THE WOMEN'S ROOM.
UM, BUT I COULD AL LIKE I SAID, I COULD ALSO MEET THAT NEED WITH PORTABLE UNITS.
SO, AND THEN, AND SO I 32 IS KIND OF A NATURAL LIMITER TO ME RIGHT NOW.
AND THEN I WOULD HAVE TO PROBABLY DO MORE TO GET TO, TO, TO, TO EXCEED THAT NUMBER.
THERE'S SOME NATURAL BARRIERS TO ME GETTING TO 75 FIRST I THINK IS GONNA BE DEMAND.
I DON'T THINK I'M GONNA HAVE A DEMAND FOR MORE THAN 20 OR 25 SITES HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE.
UM, UNLESS THIS BECAME A LARGER ENTITY, YOU KNOW, THAN, THAN I'M PICTURING IT IN THE FIRST 10 YEARS.
THANK YOU, MR. WILLIAMS. ANYBODY ELSE? ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF? WELL, LET ME ASK A FEW QUESTIONS, PLEASE.
UM, DON'T BE FOOLED BY OUR ORDINANCE.
UM, I DON'T EVEN THINK WE EVEN DEFINE CAMPGROUND IN
[00:35:01]
OUR SONNY, NOT MM-HMM.UH, THE REASON FOR THAT IS WE, UM, OR CAMPGROUNDS ARE REGULATED BY THE VIRGINIA HEALTH DEPARTMENT.
UH, PART OF THE CONDITION OF ANY APPROVAL WE DO TONIGHT WILL BE ON GETTING CLEARANCE OR PERMIT ISSUED FROM THEM, WHICH, UM, CERTAINLY HAS AT LEAST 20 CHAPTERS OF VARIOUS, I'M SURE IF I'VE READ 'EM, IF YOU'VE BEEN IN VIRGINIA REPEATEDLY
UH, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS DID ASK ABOUT THE NUMBER OF SPACES, UH, BY HEALTH DEPARTMENT REGULATIONS.
I THINK FOR FOUR TOILETS YOU'RE A MAXIMUM OF 30, UH, CAMP SPACES.
UH, I ASSUME YOU'RE GOING TO DO THAT.
I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ON YOUR SITE PLAN REGARDING THAT, BUT I ASSUME THEY WOULD BE.
YEAH, THEY'RE REQUIRED TO BE 30 FEET WIDE AND 1600 SQUARE FEET, SO APPROXIMATELY 40 BY 40.
AND, AND I WOULD PROBABLY DO 40 BY 40 FEET ALL ALL EXCEPT FOR PRIMITIVE CAMPING.
APPARENTLY PRIMITIVE, THEY ARE A LITTLE LESS FLEXIBLE ON, BUT THEY STILL COUNT TOWARDS YOUR BATHROOM COUNT.
SO THEY'RE PROBABLY GONNA STILL HAVE 'EM BE, MEET THE REGULATION SIZE AND RIGHT.
SO, SO THE, THE PRIMARY CONCERN WILL BE GETTING THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT PERMIT MM-HMM.
I WOULD MOST CERTAINLY ACQUIRE HEALTH DEPARTMENT APPROVAL BEFORE I DID EVEN HAD ONE PERSON SLEEP THERE UNLESS THEY FELL ASLEEP DURING THE DAY ON THE PICNIC TABLE OR SOMETHING.
UH, YOU DEFINE IN YOUR, UH, TEXT, UH, LIGHT CAMPERS.
WHAT IS A LIGHT CAMPER? L I G H T.
IS IT, SO I, AS OPPOSED TO A HEAVY CAMPER, RIGHT? I HAVE NO IDEA.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S AN OFFICIAL TERM, BUT I GUESS MAYBE THAT'S MY TERM.
I MEAN A PULL BEHIND, YOU KNOW, A FIVE, FIVE, UH, POINT A POPUP.
IS THAT WHAT THAT BIG CONCERN? I'M THINKING LIGHT, YOU KNOW, PULLED BY A TRUCK, NOT A BUS.
SO IF IT LOOKS LIKE A BUS, I THINK WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE THEM, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? LIKE THE FULL SIZE BUS SIZE CAMPERS IS JUST NOT GONNA BE A FIT FOR WHAT WE HAVE DOWN THERE.
SO I WOULD, I'M GUESSING IT'S PROBABLY LIKE A 32 FOOT LIMIT.
I THINK BUS IS, THE BUS SIZES ONES ARE 40 TO, TO 55 FEET.
I, I DON'T, I, IF YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO, I COULD DO SOME RESEARCH ON THAT.
I IMAGINE IF YOU WANT TO VOTE TONIGHT.
BUT, UM, I CERTAINLY THINK PEOPLE THAT ARE TOWING A CAMPER BEHIND A TRUCK WOULD BE THE, THE CUSTOMERS THAT WE WANT AND PEOPLE THAT ARE, UM, DRIVING THE SMALL, YOU KNOW, RENTED, RENTED CAMPERS ARE WHO WE WANT DOWN THERE.
I THINK THAT ANYBODY WITH A BUS THAT'S GONNA LOOK AT THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT, UH, UNDERPASS AND PROBABLY STOP.
THAT, THAT WAS WHAT I'M TRYING TO LEAD TO.
UM, YOU MAY WANNA PUT ON YOUR WEBSITE IT WOULD BE LIMITED A LITTLE BIT HIGHER.
YOU WANNA SEE A BIG BUS? YEAH.
IT'D BE FRONT AND CENTER FROM THERE.
UM, I LOOKED AT YOUR WEBSITE, IT LOOKED LIKE IT AS YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TO ADD THAT WITHOUT MUCH TROUBLE, BUT, UM, YEAH, I WAS JUST CONCERNED.
I, I'VE NEVER HEARD THE TERM LIGHT CAMPER.
UM, I THINK IT MAY BE UNOFFICIAL TERM.
UM, I DIDN'T MEAN TO BE, I'M SURE SOMEBODY WILL COME IN WITH A HEAVY CAMPER AND WRITE LIGHT ON IT OR SOMETHING
UM, ON YOUR APPLICATION, YOUR CONCEPT PLAN, YOU SHOW OVERFLOW PARKING.
ARE YOU PLANNING ON PAVING OR GRAVELING OR? I WOULD GRAVEL IT.
I DON'T WANT ANY MORE PAVEMENT THAN THEN IT'S DOWN THERE.
I DON'T WANT ANY IMPERMEABLE SURFACE.
AND I'M SURE YOUR, YOUR MS FOUR DOESN'T WANT IMPERMEABLE SURFACE EITHER, BUT AS FAR AS THE SITES AND BOTH FOR THE RV AND FOR THE TENT CAMPING, YOU WILL NOT HAVE ANY PAVED.
THOSE WOULD BE CRUSHED DOWN AS WELL.
JUST IT'S GONNA GO THROUGH THE FIELD.
I WOULD RECOMMEND YOU GET 'EM OUT WHEN IT FIRST STARTS RAINING.
CAUSE THAT FIELD YEAH, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
COMES TO TO MUD PRETTY QUICK WHEN, WHEN THE RAIN COMES.
NO STRANGER TO MUD, UNFORTUNATELY.
AND TOWING CARS OUT OF CAMPSITES.
SO GRAVEL'S OUR FRIEND, ALTHOUGH IT'S A, A HOLE WE POUR MONEY INTO EVERY YEAR.
BECAUSE IT JUST GETS PUSHED INTO, BECAUSE AGAIN, I I'M LIKE OUR SPEAKERS TONIGHT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE THE CANOE CAPITAL OF THE WORLD AND YOU CAN'T GET A CANOE IN FRONT.
SO LET'S, LET'S, LET'S GET SOME STUFF HERE.
UM, AND, AND THIS IS A, UH, JUST A PICKY UNE POINT SURE.
HAVE YOUR ENGINEER ALIGN HIS, UH, AERIAL MAP WITH THE LINE WORK.
UM, IF YOU NOTICE, UM, IT'S THE, THE LINE WORK IS SHIFTED WAY TO THE RIGHT OR THE, THE AERIAL SHIFTED OFF OF THE, THE MAP TO THE LEFT.
YOU SEE WHERE THE, WHERE THE ROAD IS VERSUS WHERE YOU SHOW THE ROAD.
UH, IT'S, IT'S IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PLACE.
UM, OH, THAT WAS PART THE ROAD TO THE PAV PAVILION
UM, BUT BUT YOU, YOU CAN SEE THE, THE OUTLINE OF THE PAGE, THE BLACK LINE.
YEAH, I SEE THAT THE AERIAL NEEDS TO BE MOVED OVER WITHIN THAT.
BUT UNFORTUNATELY I'M THE ENGINEER AND THAT WAS MY, MY DOING WELL.
IT LOOKS LIKE YOU GRABBED THE, UH, UM, AERIAL MAP UNDERNEATH OF IT AND MOVED IT IN,
[00:40:01]
IN INADVERTENTLY, BUT YOU MAY WANT TO DO CORRECT THAT BEFORE IT GETS TO COUNCIL.BECAUSE IT IS A BIT CONFUSING.
UM, STAFF, WHAT, WHAT KIND OF STAFF ARE YOU GONNA HAVE ON THIS? WELL, TO BEGIN WITH, JUST FOR THE RIVER OUTFITTING BUSINESS, UHHUH
IT KIND OF DEPENDS ON WHAT OUR ONSITE RECEPTION IS LIKE.
OKAY, WELL LET'S, LET'S TAKE STAFF ONSITE.
IF JOHN DOE COMES TO YOUR FACILITY, THERE'LL BE SOMEBODY THERE THAT'LL READ HIM THE RIDE ACT AND GIVE, GIVE HIM A, UH, YEAH.
LIFE VEST AND PUT 'EM ON THE BUS.
GENERALLY WHAT WE DO IS WE HAVE A PERSON RECEIVES, THEY HAVE EITHER A MOBILE PAD.
YOU KNOW, THAT'S CONNECTED TO OUR RESERVATION SYSTEM.
UM, AND WE USE FAIR HARBOR OR I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE GOING TO USE, BUT FAIR HARBOR WILL PROBABLY BE THE POINT OF SALES SYSTEM.
AND THAT ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, A LAPTOP OR A MOBILE SYSTEM WHERE YOU SEE THE PERSON'S RESERVATION.
YOU, UH, CONFIRM THAT THEY'VE DONE AN ONLINE WAIVER OR PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT.
AND IF THEY HAVEN'T, YOU HAVE THEM DO THAT AT THAT POINT.
UM, AND THEN THEY GO TO ANOTHER PLACE ONCE THEY'RE CHECKED IN IS THEY GO TO THROUGH A SAFETY BRIEFING.
AND WE TELL THEM ALL, YOU KNOW, HOW TO STAY SAFE, HOW TO NAVIGATE, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE POINTS OF OF INTEREST ARE ON THE RIVER, WHERE THEY PUT IN, WHERE THEY TAKE OUT AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
AND, AND THEN WE'VE LEARNED OVER TIME THAT THE MORE TIME WE INVEST IN THAT, THE BETTER EXPERIENCE PEOPLE HAVE ON THE RIVER, THEY DON'T GET LOST.
THEY DON'T WORRY AS MUCH ABOUT WHERE THEY ARE.
YOU KNOW, IT JUST, AND IT SAVES US TIME AND MONEY WHERE WE'RE NOT CHASING PEOPLE DOWN EVERY, ALL DAY, EVERY DAY WHO'VE MISSED THE TAKEOUT OR DON'T, DON'T GET GOOD DIRECTIONS.
UM, WE, UH, WITH OUR INNER TUBES, SOMETIMES WE EVEN PUT MAPS ON THE TUBES.
A MAP OF THE RIVER THAT PUTS THE POINTS OF INTEREST.
SO, UM, AND WHEN WE PUT 'EM ON A RACE, BA RACE BRACELET, CUZ EVERYBODY GETS A BRACELET DEPENDING ON WHAT THEIR ACTIVITY IS FOR THE DAY.
SO THERE'S COLOR CODED BRACELETS THAT THE STAFF GIVES OUT TO THEM.
ONE SAYS YOU'VE GOT AN INNER TUBE THAT HAS A, A BACK ONE SAYS YOU HAVE AN INNER TUBE WITHOUT A BACK ONE SAYS YOU HAVE A REINFORCED INNER TUBE.
AND THAT'S HOW WE IDENTIFY WHO THE PEOPLE ARE AND HOW WE, YOU KNOW, ONE IS A COOLER, A COOLER, YOU KNOW, FLOATING COOLER, ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
AND THE RACE, THE BRACELETS ARE THE ESSENTIALLY A TICKET.
AND IT'S ALSO A WAY TO COMMUNICATE.
WE PUT OUR PHONE NUMBER ON THERE, WE PUT, YOU KNOW, AN EMERGENCY CALL 9 1 1 AND WE PUT A LITTLE MAP ON IT.
BELIEVE YOU CAN NOT, YOU CAN FIT A LOT ON A LITTLE BRACELET THAT YOU STICK ON SOMEONE'S WRIST.
UM, SO STAFFING IS A PERSON TO CHECK IN.
WE HAVE SOMEONE TO GIVE THE ORIENTATION, THE SAFETY SPEECH.
AND OFTENTIMES THAT PERSON WILL ALL BE THE, ALSO BE THE PERSON THAT PUTS A PFD ON 'EM AND FITS IT.
WE DO THE FITTING FOR OUR GUESTS.
WE DO THE TIGHTENING AND THE FITTING BECAUSE WE FOUND THAT PEOPLE OTHERWISE DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT PROPERLY.
UH, MOST PEOPLE LISTEN, SOME DON'T, BUT WE HAVE METHODS THAT WE HAVE OR TRIED AND TRUE THAT EN UH, ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO USE THEM AND THEY GENERALLY KEEP THEM ON AFTER WE TALK TO 'EM.
AND UM, SO YOU WILL HAVE PEOPLE ON SITE NOW, ARE THEY GONNA BE ALWAYS YEAH.
WHERE, WHERE ARE THEY GONNA LIVE? ARE THEY GONNA LIVE UNDER THE PAVILION OR, SO THE CHECK-IN STAFF YOU LITTLE GUARDHOUSE OR JUST WHAT'S THEY GONNA DO? THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING PFDS AND SAFETY SPEECHES WILL EITHER BE OUT IN THE OPEN UNDER THE PAVILION OR IN A SMALL TENT.
YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT ERECT LIKE A DAY, YOU KNOW, LIKE A DAY USED KIND OF A TENT.
UM, YOU KNOW, NON-PERMANENT WITH PINS THAT HOLD IT UP LIKE YOU MIGHT HAVE FOR A SMALL EVENT.
UH, THE TENTS TO BE USED IN HARPERS FERRY ARE 20 FEET BY 40 FEET.
AND, UM, THAT'S KEEPS PEOPLE OUT OF THE SUN, JUST KEEPS 'EM HEALTHY.
AND THAT'S WHERE WE GIVE THE ORIENTATION BRIEF.
AND THEN, SO THERE WILL BE A STAFF, UH, THAT DOES ORIENTATION BRIEF.
THEY USUALLY WALK THE GUESTS TO GET THE EQUIPMENT AND THEN THEY WALK THEM TO THE TRANSPORTATION, WHICH IS EITHER A VAN OR A BUS OR WHATEVER THE TRANSPORTATION WE'RE USING.
UM, GETS 'EM ON THE, ONTO THE TRANSPORTATION AND THEN YOU HAVE A DRIVER AS WELL THAT TRANSPORTS.
AND SO IT'S A, IT'S A MIXTURE OF STAFF.
MOST CAMPGROUNDS ESPECIALLY WHERE YOU STAY OVERNIGHT, HONESTLY.
UH, ARE YOU GONNA HAVE ANY STAFF WHEN WE OVERNIGHT, WHEN WE ADD CAMPING, IT WOULD BE OUR PLAN TO HAVE A PERSON THAT STAYS AND LIVES ON, ON SITE DURING THE SEASON.
IT'S ALSO WHY I'M NOT GONNA INSTITUTE CAMPING AT THE BEGINNING CAUSE I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SUPPORT IT, YOU KNOW, THEORETICALLY.
BUT, BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING LONG TERM AND IF, IF AND WHEN CAMPING IS DEMANDED AND, AND PEOPLE WANT TO DO IT, I WILL HAVE A PERSON THAT IS THERE AS A RESOURCE LOCALLY.
UM, I HADN'T THOUGHT THROUGH, I, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE REQUIRED TO HAVE A STAFF ON SITE, A PERSON ON SITE AT NIGHT, BUT I WOULD CERTAINLY WANT TO HAVE SOMEBODY VERY NEARBY, YOU KNOW, WITH A PHONE NUMBER.
YOU KNOW, THEY COULD LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR, RIGHT.
WELL I UNDERSTAND IT'S THAT, UH, IF, IF, IF WE HAVE A NOISE SITUATION YEAH.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT'D, IT WOULD BE MY CELL PHONE THAT THEY WOULD BE CALLING MOST LIKELY.
BUT YOU WERE DOWN AND THAT'S WHY I DON'T LIKE, THAT'S WHY I DON'T LIKE NOISE SITUATIONS CUZ I LIKE TO SLEEP AT NIGHT, SO.
IT'S NOT, I'M JUST WORRIED THAT IF WE DO HAVE A LARGE OVERNIGHT COMPONENT THAT UH, WHEN THIS DEVELOPS, I'LL HAVE A PERSON THERE.
UM, NOW THE MODE OF TRANSPORTATION FOR YOU TO GET YOUR KAYAKS AND CANOES AND TUBES AND, UH, THE PADDLE BOATS
[00:45:01]
OR WHATEVER THEY HAVE, UH, YOU USE A BUS TYPE OF THING WITH A TRAILER TO PULL THEM? OR HOW, HOW DO YOU, THERE'S A LOT OF WAYS TO DO IT.AND IF, IF YOU GO UP AND DOWN THE RIVER, YOU'LL SEE EVERYBODY KIND OF SKINS A CAT A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT WAY.
BUT ONE OF THE TRADITIONAL WAYS IS THAT YOU EITHER HAVE A VAN OR A BUS THAT PULLS A TRAILER.
UM, THE TRAILER EITHER YOU STACK, GENERALLY YOU STACK THE KAYAK ACTUALLY UPRIGHT IN THE TRAILERS, THE TUBES YOU JUST LOAD IN THERE AND IN, YOU KNOW, IN PILES.
UM, ANOTHER WAY TO DO IT IS USE A BOX TRUCK, UH, FOR BOTH USE A BOX TRUCK FOR THE, UH, KAYAKS AND A BOX TRUCK FOR THE, UM, FOR THE TUBES.
IN WHICH CASE WE WOULD PROBABLY DO A DUMP.
SO WE TAKE THE BOX TRUCK UP TO THE PUT IN LOCATION AND HAVE SOMEONE WAIT THERE WITH IT AND HAND OUT TUBES TO THE GUESTS THERE.
AND I HAVEN'T DECIDED HOW WE'RE GONNA DO IT THERE, BUT IT'D BE ONE OF THOSE TWO ITERATIONS.
HOW MANY WILL YOU HAVE YOU THINK UP HERE? HOW MANY VEHICLES, HOW MANY VEHICLES YOU HAVE AT FULL CAPACITY? OR JUST LIKE TO START WITH YOU TELL ME.
I MEAN, I'M, YEAH, I MEAN, I JUST DUNNO, IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT LIKE THE, WHAT WOULD BE THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF VEHICLES TO BEGIN WITH? I'M GONNA HAVE ONE
SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE EATING UP PARKING SPACES, OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE A COUPLE DIFFERENT ROUTES TO, TO TAKE THERE.
UH, WHAT ABOUT RETAIL SALES? YOU PLAN ON HAVING ANY TYPE OF RETAIL SALES? WELL, WE LIKE TO SELL SUCH AS HOT DOGS, COCA-COLAS.
UM, I DON'T WANT TO SERVE WARM FOOD BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE INSPECTIONS RELATED TO WARM FOOD AND WHATNOT.
AGAIN, IF THERE'S A LOT OF DEMAND FOR IT, I MIGHT BRING A FOOD TRUCK IN, INVITE A FOOD TRUCK TO COME AND SERVE GUESTS.
UM, BUT I DON'T HAVE THE FACILITIES FOR IT.
IT WOULD REQUIRE OUR MOBILE, MOBILE FACILITIES AND, AND THAT COULD BE A NICE THING TO HAVE.
BUT, UM, I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO SELL SHOES FOR PEOPLE.
RIVER SHOES, HATS, SUNSCREEN, YOU KNOW, PLACES FOR PEOPLE'S, UM, CELL PHONES, YOU KNOW, LIKE WATERPROOF PROTECTION FOR CELL PHONES, SUN SHIRTS, THE, THE BASIC THINGS THAT PEOPLE MIGHT NEED THAT SHOW UP THAT JUST AREN'T QUITE PREPARED.
THOSE ARE NICE TO HAVE AS A RETAIL.
AND WE WOULD PUT ALL THOSE AND WE WOULD HAVE THOSE ALL INSIDE OF A MOBILE UNIT, LIKE AN ICE CREAM TRUCK, IF YOU WILL.
AND UM, THAT'S A GOOD EXAMPLE.
I GUESS YOU PROBABLY HAVEN'T SEEN IT, BUT MR. SEAK HAS, UH, PULL BEHIND TRAILER THAT'S GOT ONE OF THOSE BIG FLIP OPEN SIDES TO IT, YOU KNOW, LIKE THAT YOU, YOU PICTURE AT CONCESSION STANDS, CORRECT? UM, IT WOULD, AND THE ONE WE USE IN HARPERS FERRY IS ESSENTIALLY THAT IT'S JUST GOT A, IT'S GOT TWO WINDOWS THAT OPEN UP AND HAVE A, YOU KNOW, HAVE A DEVICE THAT HOLDS THE WINDOWS OPEN AND STAFF STAYS INSIDE THERE.
THE ONLY REASON I'M IN RETAIL, I'M ASKING THIS, IS THEY DO REQUIRE ADDITIONAL PERMITS.
I'M PERMITTED WHAT YOU'RE DOING RIGHT NOW.
UH, SAME AS YOUR SIGN, YOU WILL HAVE TO GET A SEPARATE SIGN PERMIT.
UH, UH, YOU KNOW, ISSUED BY THE PLANNING AND ZONING.
I'M A RULE FOLLOWER, SO, UM, I'M NOT GONNA BE LOOKING TO SKIRT ANY OF THE PERMITTING REQUIREMENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
I DO THINGS BY THE BOOK AND THAT'S HOW I WOULD DO IT HERE.
UM, AND MY ONLY HOPE IS THAT IT DOESN'T TURN INTO AN ATTRACTIVE NUISANCE.
SO LET'S, UM, UH, LOOK AT OUR PLAN, LOOK AT YOUR REGULATIONS, MAKE SURE, UH, THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT REGULATIONS, AS YOU KNOW, ARE AN ANNUAL, UH, AFFAIR.
UH, ANY OTHER QUESTION OF OUR APPLICANT OR STAFF? I, OKAY.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, I AM SO GLAD YOU'RE DOING THIS BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT.
IT IS JUST THE MOST PERFECT SPOT.
IT IS SOMETHING THE TOWN NEEDS.
SO I THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY AWESOME.
UH, WHEN YOU WERE NAMING STAFF THAT WOULD BE ON SITE, YOU DIDN'T MENTION WHO WOULD BE IN CHARGE OF MONITORING THE RIVER IN TERMS OF WHEN THERE'S BAD WEATHER, HOW IS THAT GOING TO BE HANDLED? HOW ARE YOU GONNA MONITOR THE WATER LEVELS? WHO IS GONNA BE IN CHARGE OF THAT? IT, HOW ARE YOU GONNA COMMUNICATE WITH 75 PEOPLE? YEAH.
WITHIN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME OR HOWEVER MANY YOU HAVE THERE? IT'S, IT IS TRICKY ADMITTEDLY.
UM, WEATHER IS SOMETHING THAT YOU UNFORTUNATELY CAN'T SWEEP EVERYBODY OFF THE RIVER FOR.
IF WE ANTICIPATE OR HAVE A VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE OF BAD WEATHER FORECAST, WE USUALLY DISCOURAGE OR STOP RUNNING TRIPS.
BUT AS ANYBODY KNOWS, YOU KNOW, EVERY SUMMER DAY HAS GOT A 30% CHANCE OF A THUNDERSTORM.
AND WHEN EVERY THREE DAYS OUR, OUR USERS ARE GONNA GET RAINED ON.
AND SO WHAT WE DO IS, AND PART OF THE SAFETY SPEECHES, WE, WE TELL THEM WHAT TO DO.
UM, PART OF THAT'S GONNA BE HOW TO OBSERVE PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS AS WELL BECAUSE THERE ARE PORTIONS
[00:50:01]
OF IT THAT ARE PRIVATE PROPERTY.AND SO GUESTS, YOU KNOW, ARE GONNA BE INSTRUCTED PROPERLY.
UM, AND HOW TO DEAL WITH PARTICULARLY THINGS LIKE LIGHTNING.
UM, IF WE HAVE A HIGH WIND DAY, I'M NOT GONNA BE PUTTING INNER TUBES ON THE RIVER BECAUSE WE'RE JUST GONNA LOSE 'EM ALL AND PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE SWIMMING TO THE SHORE AND WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO COLLECT THEM UP.
AND SO WE'RE, WE'RE, UM, NOT THAT I'M, I'M NOT, I'M NOT DOWNPLAYING IT, UM, BUT UH, WE ARE MOTIVATED TO HAVE THERE BE AS FEW PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WEATHER AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE SPENT ALL NIGHT AND I HAVE SPENT ALL NIGHT AT MY BUSINESS TRYING TO FIND PEOPLE.
UM, USUALLY WHAT HAPPENED IS THEY GOT DRUNK AND THEY WALKED, THEY GOT OUT OF THEIR TUBE AND THEY WALKED SOMEWHERE.
I'VE HAD PEOPLE WALK 50 MILES OR GET INTO CARS AND GO PLACES AND PEOPLE DO WEIRD THINGS WHEN THEY'RE ON THE RIVER SOMETIMES, BUT, UM, BUT WE WOULD HAVE A PERSON THAT'S RESPONSIBLE, A SITE MANAGER ON, ON STAFF.
EITHER BE AN OWNER OR MANAGER THAT MANAGES THE YOUNG STAFF AND USUALLY THE PEOPLE THAT ARE CHUCKING TUBES AND HANDING OUT PFDS ARE KIDS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GOT WORK PERMITS.
THEY'RE 14 TO 18 YEARS OLD, THEY'RE IN HIGH SCHOOL OR MIDDLE SCHOOL.
UM, THESE ARE GREAT JOBS FOR THEM, YOU KNOW, THEY LIKE BEING OUTSIDE AND THEY GET A LOT OF DOWNTIME AND HANGOUT TIME AND THEN THEY WORK REAL HARD, YOU KNOW, WHEN GUESTS ARE THERE ON SITE.
SO, UM, DID I, DID I ANSWER THE QUESTIONS? YOU TALKED ABOUT STAFFING ON SITE.
OH, SO ONE OF THE YEAH, I MEANT TO SAY.
ONE OF THE THINGS WE ALSO DO IS WE HAVE A SWEEP.
AND SO ONCE IT, AND IT'S A PERSON OR PERSONS DEPENDING ON THE VOLUME OF PEOPLE OUT ON THE RIVER THAT GET IN A KAYAK AND THEY ACTUALLY GO IN THE LAST, THE LAST TRANSPORTATION TO THE, TO THE MOST UPSTREAM SITE AND THEY FOLLOW THE GUESTS DOWN OR THEY'LL HANG OUT FOR A LITTLE WHILE AND LET THE GUESTS GO AND THEN THEY PADDLE DOWN AND THEY SWEEP THE RIVER.
UH, LUCKILY ALL THE BOAT ASSETS ARE BRIGHT COLORED AND SO IT'S HARD TO MISS 'EM AS YOU'RE GOING DOWN THE RIVER.
UM, THERE'S NO ISLANDS PER SE RIGHT.
AND THE THE THING I WAS I WAS GETTING AT IS WHO IS GONNA BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MONITORING THE RIVER IN CASE OF, YOU KNOW, A HURRICANE, UH, SOUTH OF HERE OR SOMETHING.
WHO IS ACTUALLY GONNA BE MONITORING THAT AND NOTIFYING THE CUSTOMERS, BE STAFF ON SITE.
THERE'D BE A MANAGER ON SITE, SO THEY WILL BE, WE HAVE, WE HAVE APPS ON OUR PHONE.
I'VE GOT FIVE, WHETHER I HAVE THREE WEATHER AND TWO RIVER LEVEL APPS AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE LITERALLY SGS STATIONS.
AND THEN YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE SOME KIND OF A SYSTEM OF CALLING ALL THE PEOPLE INVOLVED WELL, AND GETTING THEM TO MOVE THEIR VEHICLES OR TAKE DOWN THEIR TENTS AND SO FORTH.
SO IN THE, AGAIN, IT'S AN IMPERFECT SCIENCE.
UM, IN THE EVENT THAT WE HAVE A TROPICAL SYSTEM, YOU KNOW, I'LL KNOW DAYS IN ADVANCE.
THERE ARE THESE DAYS, LUCKILY WE'RE NOT SURPRISED ANYMORE.
USUALLY WE HEAR ABOUT 'EM FOR DAYS.
EVEN IF THEY TAKE A TURN, YOU KNOW, OR DO SOMETHING FUNNY, WE'RE GONNA BE WATCHING THAT THING ABOUT EVERY HALF HOUR TO MAKE SURE IT'S NOT DOING SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T EXPECT.
AND SO WE JUST DON'T PUT PEOPLE OUT WHEN THE THINGS ARE BEARING DOWN ON YOU.
YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT A BUSINESS THAT THESE BUSINESSES DON'T HAVE TO GET ABSOLUTELY EVERY DOLLAR OUT OF EVERY DAY.
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE GOOD BUSINESSES, THEY'RE SOLID BUSINESSES AND WE DO PLENTY OF CANCELLATIONS WHEN BAD WEATHER HAPPENS JUST AS A FUNCTION OF OUR INSURANCE.
SO YOU'RE ONSITE, OUR INSURANCE APPRECIATES THAT ONSITE MANAGER WILL BE WHERE THE BUCK STOPS.
AND THEY'LL HAVE, THEY'LL HAVE ACCESS TO ALL THESE THINGS AND I'M, AS AN OWNER, I'VE ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, FIRST THING I DO WHEN I WAKE UP AND THE LAST THING I DO BEFORE I GO TO BED IS I CHECK WATER LEVELS AND WEATHER JUST HAVE FOR 25 YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS.
MY WIFE, YOU KNOW, SHE HATES THE SCREEN, BUT IT'S JUST WHAT WE DO AND WE LIVE ON, WE LIVE ON THOSE THANK YOU ON THOSE APPS.
AND THEY'VE GOT AMAZING TECHNOLOGY, REMARKABLE FORECASTING, RIVER LEVEL TECHNOLOGY NOW.
AND IT DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE OUGHT TO DO IT THE OLD FASHIONED WAY.
JUST HANG A BIG OLD ROCK ON A CHAIN OFF OF THE TREE, ABOUT TWO FEET ABOVE THE RIVER AND TELL THE PEOPLE IF THE ROCK DISAPPEARS, IT'S TIME TO GO.
CAN I NAME IT THE MERCHANT ROCKER, THE OLD WEATHER ROCK
I'VE BEEN THERE WITH HERSCHEL WHERE WE SHOW UP AT THE RIVER AND WHILE WE'RE SHUTTLING OUR VEHICLE, WE, WE STICK A STICK IN AT THE WATER LEVEL IN THE MUD AND THEN WHEN WE COME BACK WE CAN TELL IF IT'S RISING OR FALLING.
BUT THAT'S, THAT WAS THE DAY BEFORE WE HAD APPS ON OUR PHONE.
SO YEAH, IT'S REALLY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONERS? UM, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR STAFF.
I UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT THE MOTION, WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE TWO CONDITIONS BECAUSE THEY'RE ALREADY, UM, THEY ARE INCLUDED AS PERFORMANCE STANDARDS IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO, SO WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE THE TWO, UM, CONDITIONS BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY CONDITIONS, PERFORMANCE STANDARDS IN OUR CODE.
CHAIR WILL ENTERTAIN A MOTION.
I MOVE AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION FORWARD A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL OF APPARENTLY OR NOT.
UH, YOU MAY WANNA INCLUDE A CONDITION FOR LENGTH OF STAY IF THIS BOARD WANTS TO LIMIT THAT.
WHAT'S SHE SAYING? SHE NEVER INCLUDED THE LENGTH OF STUDY.
WOULD YOU AMEND YOUR MOTION TO HAVE A LENGTH OF STUDY, SIR? MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M MOVE AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION FORWARD A RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL TO THE FRONT ROYAL TOWN COUNCIL FOR SPECIAL USE
[00:55:01]
PERMIT, APPLICATION NUMBER 2,321 FOR AN OUTDOOR RECREATION FACILITY LOCATED AT 1847 NORTH ROYAL AVENUE, WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITION THAT THE LENGTH OF STAY BE NO MORE THAN 14 CALENDAR DAYS.AT ONE TIME, THE APPLICANT SHALL COMPLY ALSO WITH ALL PERFORMANCE STANDARDS OF 1 75 DASH 10 POINT 10 D.
IF I'M NOT OUTTA ORDER, I WOULD JUST LOVE TO HAVE THAT BE CLARIFIED THAT IT'S A NON-STAFF PERSON, THAT IT'S A GUEST, CUZ I MAY, IF I HAVE A CAMPSITE, HAVE A PERSON IN A CAMPER LIVING ON THE SITE TO MANAGE THE GUESTS.
OTHERWISE, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO BE OVERNIGHT.
SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT DOESN'T PRECLUDE A STAFF PERSON FROM BEING ON SITE AT NIGHT.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD LIKE TO AMEND MY MOTION TO STATE THAT THAT WOULD NOT EXCLUDE THAT, THAT THAT WOULD EXCLUDE CARETAKERS.
AND I WOULD SECOND THAT WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
UM, ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION ITSELF? NO DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION.
THANK YOU CHAIR AND GOOD LUCK IN YOUR, YOUR ADVENTURES AND, UH, GOOD LUCK WITH THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.
UH, I, I COULD NOT BELIEVE THE AMOUNT OF REGULATIONS THEY HAVE REGARDING YOUR FACILITY.
IT'LL BE A, UH, UM, AN ASSET TO THE COMMUNITY, SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
[IX. NEW BUSINESS]
ARTICLE NINE OF NEW BUSINESS.TONIGHT WE HAVE ELECTION OF OFFICERS IN FEBRUARY, WE ELECT A CHAIR AND A VICE CHAIRMAN, UH, WITH THE TERM TO BEGIN MARCH THE FIRST, MARCH ONE.
UH, AT THIS TIME, UH, IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION, UH, FOR THE VICE CHAIR, THE NOMINATION IS NOW OPEN.
MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT WE NOMINATE DAN WELLS AS THE VICE CHAIRMAN.
WE HAVE A NOMINATION FOR DANIEL WELLS FOR VICE CHAIR.
IS THERE ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS FOR VICE CHAIR? ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS FOR VICE CHAIR? I WILL CLOSE THE NOMINATIONS, UH, AND REQUEST A ROLL CALL.
VOTE FOR DANIEL WELLS TO BE VICE CHAIR.
DO WE NEED A SECOND? NEED A SECOND.
DO WE NEED A MOTION OR IS, IS THAT A, AN ACTION THAT THE SHERIFF CONTAINED? LET'S HAVE A SECOND BECAUSE WE HAVE A NOMINATION.
THAT'S A MOTION, RIGHT? IS IT? IT IS.
HOW ABOUT A SECOND? CAN WE HAVE A SECOND TO, YEAH, I'LL SECOND IT.
WE HAVE A SECOND BY CONNIE MARNER FOR DANIEL WELLS.
SO ON THAT MOTION, CONNIE, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL CALL VICE CHAIRMAN MARNER? YES.
AND THE MOTION CARRIES MR. WELLS WILL BE THE VICE CHAIR FOR THE, UH, TERM 2023.
THE 20 2024 WILL EXPIRE TO END OF FEBRUARY, 2024.
NOW FOR THE POSITION OF CHAIRMAN OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO NOMINATE YOU TO CONTINUE SERVING AS CHAIRMAN OF THE FRONT ROYAL PLANNING COMMISSION THROUGH EITHER OR THE TERM OF OFFICE OR THE TERM OF YOUR COMMISSION EXPIRES.
AND ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS? WELL, I'LL SECOND THAT NOMINATION.
WE HAVE A SECOND TO THE ME AS, UM, AS CHAIRMAN AGAIN TILL THE END OF MY TERM.
RIGHT, WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND.
MS. POTTER, COULD YOU CALL A ROLL CALL ON CHAIRMAN MERCHANT TO BE CHAIRMAN MERCHANT COMMISSIONER WOOD? YES.
SO THAT, UH, THE MOTION CARRIES.
I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU.
[X. COMMISSION MEMBER REPORTS]
AT THIS TIME.ITEM 10, OUR COMMISSION MEMBER REPORTS.
DO YOU HAVE ANY ITEM YOU WISH TO BRING
[01:00:01]
FORWARD AT THIS POINT? UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO MENTION THAT I HAVE BEEN APPOINTED TO THE JOINT TOWN COUNTY TRANSPORTATION SUBCOMMITTEE.YOU YOU'RE DOING WHAT? I'VE BEEN APPOINTED TO THE JOINT TOWN COUNTY TRANSPORTATION SUBCOMMITTEE.
AND WHEN WAS THIS APPOINTMENT? WELL, I DON'T KNOW HOW OFFICIAL, I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WAS DONE.
I JUST GOT PHONE CALLS
WHO, WHO CALLED YOU? UH, CHERYL COLORS AND DOLORES OS.
I THINK IT'S AN AD HOC TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE.
THAT'S WHAT YOU WANTED, RIGHT? UH, I THINK IT'S WAS DONE IN RESPONSE TO THE, UH, THE SITUATION WITH SANO SHORES WHEN THEY BECAME AWARE OF THE SITUATION WITH 6 0 6.
I'M I'M SURE YOU'LL REPRESENT FRONT ROYAL.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? MR. WILLIAMS? MR. CHAIRMAN, I WANTED TO ASK, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PHRASE THIS.
I, UM, I GUESS I CAN DO A MOTION AT SOME POINT IF IT'S NECESSARY, BUT I, I'VE READ THROUGH THE, UM, THE COMP PLAN MM-HMM.
AND WHAT, WHAT THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IT'S A LIVING DOCUMENT AND WE'VE HAD THIS CONVERSATION.
I'M JUST TRYING TO GET WHAT IS STOPPING US FROM GOING AHEAD AND, AND ACCEPTING IT AS IS OR MOVING IT FORWARD AS IS WHAT THE UNDERSTANDING IT'S A LIVING DOCUMENT AND WE CAN MAKE ADJUSTMENTS AS WE MOVE ALONG SO WE CAN GO AHEAD AND GET IT TO TELECOIL.
UH, HOW ABOUT WE PLACE THAT, UH, WHICH WE WERE GONNA DO ANYWAY ON THE MARCH 1ST WORK SESSION, UH, AND SEE WHERE WE STAND AND GET READY TO MOVE.
I KNOW THAT THE DIRECTOR WAS, SHE'LL DISCUSS WHEN, AND HER REPORT HAS BEEN TALKING WITH VDOT.
UH, WE'RE GETTING SOME MOVEMENT ON, ON THE EASTWEST CONNECTOR.
UH, WE, WE MAY HAVE TO LOOK AT THE TRANSPORTATION NETWORK, UM, UH, TO SEE, YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN PRELIMINARY PLANNED AND NOW WE'RE GETTING, YOU KNOW, SOME INTEREST IN THE AREA.
SO WE HAVE TO MOVE INTO THE NEXT PHASE, WHICH IS TIGHTENING UP THE PLAN.
UM, AND IT MAY REQUIRE US TO REALLY LOOK AT, I'VE DISCUSSED THIS WITH THE PLANNING DIRECTOR, UM, SOME, UM, UH, LAND USE BAYS OUT THERE THAT WOULD, WOULD MAYBE MORE COMMERCIAL LIGHT INDUSTRIAL TO HELP US QUALIFY, UH, FOR VDOT GRANTS.
SO, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE CAN DISCUSS, UH, MARCH THE FIRST.
AND I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE A VALID ANSWER SO WHEN WE CAN COMPLETE OUR PUBLIC HEARING, UH, CUZ IT WILL HAVE TO GO BACK TO A PUBLIC HEARING, UH, AND THEN WE CAN FORWARD IT TO COUNCIL.
SO I SEE THAT HAPPENING IN MARCH.
AND TH THIS IS NOT TO PATRONIZE YOU, BUT I'D REALLY LIKE TO GET THIS DONE BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE COMMISSION.
YOU, YOU KEEP PUSHING AND WE'LL KEEP OKAY.
I'LL, I WILL, WE'LL KEEP FOLLOWING IT.
ANY OTHER, ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM COMMISSIONERS? ANY REPORTS?
[XI. PLANNING DIRECTOR REPORT]
OUR FINAL, UH, ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS THE PLANNING DIRECTOR REPORT.SO STAFF HAS PROVIDED YOU WITH THE 2022 PLANNING COMMISSION REPORT.
THIS IS AN ANNUAL REPORT THAT THE STATE REQUIRES, UH, THE TOWN TO PUBLISH EVERY YEAR.
UM, SO IN 2022, THE PLANNING COMMISSION HELD 11 REGULAR MEETINGS, 15 WORK SESSIONS, TWO JOINT WORK SESSIONS, UM, AND ONE SPECIAL MEETING.
AND ONE OF THOSE JOINT WORK SESSIONS WAS WITH THE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND THAT WAS A DISCUSSION OF THE TRANSPORTATION CHAPTER OF OUR COMFORT OF PLAN.
UM, THERE WERE 16 SPECIAL USE PERMIT APPLICATIONS.
THE MAJORITY OF THOSE WERE, UM, SHORT-TERM RENTALS OR LIKE GROUND FLOOR APARTMENTS.
AND THEN WE HAD TWO SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS, I BELIEVE THOSE WERE FOR A CAMPGROUND AND FOR A PRIVATE ROAD.
WE HAD THREE REZONINGS, THREE, UM, ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS, OR PROPOSED ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS.
AND THIS BODY ALSO REVIEWED TWO, UH, MAJOR SITE PLANS.
STAFF PROCESSED 16 SUBDIVISION PLANS ADMINISTRATIVELY.
AND THEN THIS BODY ALSO REVIEWED THE C I P AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UM, AFTER THIS MEETING, IF THERE ARE NO EDITS FROM THIS BODY, STAFF WILL BE PUBLISHING THIS REPORT ON OUR TOWN WEBSITE.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE DIRECTOR FOR COMING OUT WITH THIS.
AND FOR COMMISSIONERS THAT ARE NOT AWARE OF IT, WE'RE REQUIRED BY CODE TO PRESENT AN ANNUAL REPORT, UH, TO THE PUBLIC.
AND WE ALSO FORWARDED ONTO TOWN COUNCIL.
UM, BASICALLY THIS ANNUAL REPORT IS
[01:05:01]
A SUMMATION OF ALL OF THE PERMITS AND OUR MEETINGS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.UH, IT'S A VERY GOOD WAY FOR US TO, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT THE PROGRESS THAT WE'VE MADE OVER THE YEARS.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO ESPECIALLY THANK, UH, OUR CLERK, CONNIE POTTER.
SHE'S PUT A LOT OF WORK INTO THIS.
I KNOW WE ARE SHORT STAFFED AND IT'S, UM, UH, DIFFICULT TO, TO GET THESE REPORTS.
AND, UH, I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE EFFORT THAT SHE HAS PUT FORWARD IN IT.
UM, DOES THIS REQUIRE A MOTION FROM US TO MOVE IT FORWARD, OR NO? NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
I BELIEVE YOU JUST NEED TO LET ME KNOW IF IT'S GOOD TO PUBLISH ON THE WEBSITE.
IF YOU HAVE CHANGES, STAFF CAN MAKE 'EM.
WELL, HOW ABOUT WE JUST, I'LL ASK FOR A MOTION TO OKAY.
THERE IS NO QUESTION AS TO WHAT, WHAT WE DISCUSSED.
IF, IF, UH, YOU'VE ALL HAD A CHANCE TO READ THE REPORT, UM, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO FORWARD THIS TO ALLOW THE PLANNING DIRECTOR TO PUBLISH IT, UH, ON OUR WEBPAGE AND ALSO GIVE TOWN COUNSEL A COPY.
SO MOVE WELL, UH, WITH THE, WITH THE CAVEAT THAT I WOULD LIKE TO, UH, I, FORGIVE ME MR. CHAIRMAN, BUT I'M A, UH, I'M A GRAMMAR NAZI.
UH, THAT'S WHAT MY CHILDREN USED TO CALL ME.
AND SO, UH, GIVE ME FIRST AN OPPORTUNITY TO GET WITH STAFF TO GO OVER MY TYPO, UH, SEARCH RESULTS.
UH, AND THEN, THEN I, THEN I'M HAPPY TO FORWARD IT.
COMMISSIONER NER WOULD LIKE TO, UH, MEET WITH STAFF TO DISCUSS A, UH, UH, TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR PERHAPS.
UM, UH, I THINK WE CAN GO AHEAD AND MOVE IT FORWARD.
SUBJECT TO CONNIE MARNER, UM, UH, WORKING WITH STAFF, UH, ON, ON THE REPORT.
WHAT'S THAT? WILL SHE MADE THE MOTION RIGHT? NO.
SOMEBODY NEEDS TO MAKE A MOTION.
WE, WE APPROVE THE JANUARY MONTHLY REPORT.
SECOND FROM OUR ANNUAL AND THE 2022 ANNUAL REPORT FROM OUR PLANNING DIRECTOR ON SECOND.
THAT WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO APPROVE, UH, BOTH THE, UH, MONTH OF REPORT AND THE 2022 ANNUAL REPORT.
MS. POTTER, WOULD YOU GIVE US A, UH, ROLL CALL? PLAYER CHAIRMAN MERCHANT? YES.
WE WILL FORWARD THAT AND CONNIE MARNER WILL WORK WITH STAFF TO, UH, RELIEVE HER OF, UH, OR RELIEVE HER OF ANY CONCERNS SHE HAS REGARDING THAT.
UM, I WILL CALL FOR JUST A VOICE.
ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF ADJOURNING.
THIS MEETING SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE.
THE AYE CARRY, THE MOTION TO ADJOURN IS COMPLETE.