* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [1. Call to Order] [00:00:04] I WOULD LIKE TO CALL THE LOCAL BOARD OF BUILDING CODE APPEALS MEETING TO ORDER FEBRUARY 2ND, 2023 AT 6:00 PM HONEY, CAN YOU DO A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? HERE. GEORGE KLEIN. HERE. GARY GILLE. HERE. THANK YOU. CHARLES GOK. HERE. FRANK ST. WOODS HERE. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE [3. Member Introductions] GONNA DO MEMBER OF PRODUCTION. WE'LL START HERE WITH MS. EATERS AND THEN BILL KAREN TABLE. SO JUST STATE NAME AND YOUR BACKGROUND. UH, MY NAME IS ELLEN AERS. UM, I'M A RESIDENT HERE IN THE TOWN. I HAVE A STATE FARM OFFICE IN DOWNTOWN FOR OIL, AND I'VE BEEN HERE IN THE AREA FOR 12 YEARS. I'M GARY GLASSBY. I A RESIDENT HERE FROM RURAL ALL MY LIFE. UH, I AM A CLAIMS EXAMINER FOR MOUNTAIN COUNTY. MY NAME IS FRANK STANZ. UH, I'VE BEEN AN ELECTRICIAN FOR THE LAST 18 YEARS. UM, SERVE ON MULTIPLE BOARDS IN THE TOWN, LIVE IN THE COUNTY. UM, BEEN HERE IN FRONT ROYAL SINCE 2016 AND, UH, I RUN A BUSINESS HERE IN TOWN, SO I'VE ALWAYS LOOKING TO TRY TO GET BACK TO MY COMMUNITY. UH, GEORGE KLEIN, UH, KLEIN CONSTRUCTION EXCAVATING. UH, BEEN HERE 54 YEARS THIS YEAR AND I'VE BEEN A BUSINESS OWNER HERE FOR, UH, 31 YEARS. WOW. I'M CHARLIE GOIT. I MOVED HERE IN 2010. UH, I GOT AWAY FROM THE BEACH TOWN NONSENSE. UM, WANTED SOMETHING A LITTLE QUIETER AND UH, I MOVED RIGHT INTO LAKEFRONT ROYAL SO THE QUIET WASN'T GRANTED IN THE NONSENSE CONTINUED. SO I MOVED OUT OF THERE AND, UH, BOUGHT A, A HOUSE HERE IN TOWN. MM-HMM. . UM, BEEN IN CONSTRUCTION, UM, MY WHOLE LIFE, SO. AWESOME. THAT'S ALL I GOT. NOW WE'LL DO [4. Election of Officers] ELECTION OF OFFICE, SIR. WE WILL, UM, NOMINATE JUST THE CHAIRMAN FOR THIS BOARD. SO I WOULD LIKE TO ASK FOR A MOTION TO NOMINATE A CHAIR. THIS THE PART WHERE WE FLIP A COIN. . I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO GARY GILLER, MY SECOND CHAIR. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY OTHER NOMINATIONS? I NOMINATE GEORGE KLEIN FOR VICE CHAIR. MAYBE ONLY. WE ONLY NEED A CHAIR. OH, SORRY. SO I THOUGHT YOU WERE SAYING ANOTHER POSITION. I'M READY TO GO. ALRIGHT. WE HAVE GEORGE . NOW. WE THOUGHT UP UNTIL TODAY THAT YOU NEEDED A VICE CHAIR, BUT APPARENTLY IT IS JUST ONE. AND SO IN THE ABSENCE OF THE CHAIR, IF WE HAVE A HEARING, THEN THE REST OF THE MEMBERS WILL TEMPORARY CHAIR FOR THAT MEETING. OKAY. SO WE'LL DO A VOICE VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR OF GARY ESK AS THE CHAIR SAY. AYE. AYE. AYE. A OPPOS? NO. OKAY. I HAVE IT. GARY, THE CHAIR. THANKS, GARY. APPRECIATE. THANK YOU. HAIRCUTS. WHAT I'M THINKING. THANK YOU, SIR. WE HAD LESS TO LOSE. YEAH, YOU THE GUINEA PIG. WE'RE GONNA SEE HOW IT GOES. WE CAN, YEP. ALL WE'LL LET YOU TAKE OVER. RUN MEETING FROM HERE, BUT, UM, I WILL COVER, I GUESS I'M COVERING THE NEW BUSINESS. UM, BYLAW [5. By-Laws] STAFF HAS PROVIDED, I GUESS NOW TWO COPIES OF BYLAWS. I WILL MERGE ON IT, EDIT INTO ONE DOCUMENT FOR COUNSEL. BUT, UM, THESE ARE DERIVED FROM THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE. UM, IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS OR OBJECTIONS TO THE WORRY, AND I'LL LET YOU KNOW. YOU CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION ON IT. SO, I I HAVE ONE, UM, LOOKING AT IT HERE IN THE SET THAT WAS IN OUR BOOK. IT DOESN'T MENTION THE VICE CHAIRMAN, BUT THE NEWS THAT WE GOT SAYS ABOUT, SO THAT WAS OUR MISTAKE. WE HAD NOT FORWARDED GEORGE THE MOST RECENT COPY THAT, UH, WE MADE. SO WHAT'S THE MOST RECENT ONE IN THE BOOK? THE ONE IN THE BOOK IS THE MOST RECENT COPY. OKAY. UM, AND THAT'S, SO WHAT WE'LL DO FIRST THING TOMORROW IS GOTCHA. INCORPORATE HIS CHANGES. [00:05:03] READ THIS ONE. IT'S LETTER. OH, SORRY. SUGGESTED CHANGES. DOES IT SAY WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A VICE CHAIR? THE STATE SAYS YOU DO NOT HAVE TO THE CHAIR BECAUSE SOMETIMES IT'S EASY TO ALREADY HALF THAT DONE IN JUST MY OPINION. WE HAVE 'EM ON THE OTHER APPEAL. OH, YOU DO? YES. I JUST THROW THAT OUT THERE. IT DOESN'T MATTER. I CERTAINLY CAN, LIKE ONE THAT DAY. I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA. YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE A VICE CHAIR. I JUST THINK SO. THAT NEEDS, IT'S ALREADY OKAY TO DELETE THAT. I JUST THINK IF IT'S ALREADY SLIGHTED AND DONE FOR SPECIAL PIECE. OKAY. I AGREE. I AGREE TOO. ALL RIGHT. SO AGREED. WELL, THAT'S UNANIMOUS AGAIN. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. I WILL MEN THE LANGUAGE TOO INCLUDE THESE VICE DO GEORGE, CAN WE GO BACK THEN AND HAVE THEM ELECT OR MAKE A MOTION TO ELECT VICE CHAIR? WELL, THERE'S NO MOTION ON THE FLOOR. I MOTION THAT WE ELECT A VICE CHAIR. OH, WELL, WELL, THAT'S IN THE BYLAWS. SO THE MOTION WOULD BE TO APPROVE THE BYLAWS. OH, OKAY. THIS ONE, IT'S IN, NOT THIS ONE. THE MOTION WOULD BE TO APPROVE BYLAWS, BUT YOU HAVE TO LOOK TO SPECIFY, I GUESS YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHICH VERSION IS YEAH. IS IS GONNA BE PLACED IN FRONT OF THE BOARD. OKAY. SO THE WAY YOU'RE GONNA WANT TO PHRASE THE MOTION WOULD BE THAT YOU WANT TO ADOPT THE BYLAWS, UM, WITH THE FOLLOWING AMENDMENT TO 1.1. UM, THAT THE BOARD OF BUILDING CODE APPEAL SHALL ORGANIZE AN ANNUAL ELECTED CHAIRMAN AND THE VICE CHAIRMAN IN THE, SO I'M MOTION THAT WE AMEND ARTICLE 1.1 TO BE AS FOLLOWS, THE LOCAL BOARD OF BUILDING CODE APPEALS SHALL ORGANIZE AN ANNUALLY ELECTED CHAIRMAN AND A VICE CHAIR IN THE MONTH OF FEBRUARY. AYE. AYE. AYE. AYE. NOW WE CAN MAKE A MOTION FOR VICE CHAIR MOTION TO GEORGE KLEIN. I SECOND IT. MM. CHANCE CLOSED ON YOUR HONOR. SHALL WE VOTE? WHO IS THE SECOND ONE? RIGHT, VOTE. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. . NEXT ONE IS AGENDA NINTH TERMS. SO THE STATE, UH, CODE REQUIRES THAT, UM, THE MEMBERS HAVE STAGGERED TERMS. SO THAT MORE THAN I THINK HALF THE BOARD, IT HAS TO BE REAPPOINTED AT ANY GIVEN TIME. OH, I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT, BUT WHERE THE ENTIRE BYLAWS APPROVED OR PUT ON THE FLOOR FOR. RIGHT. IF NOT, THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. OH, THE ENTIRE BRING UP ONE MORE THING SET ON THE BYLAWS. YES. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. SO BACK ON THREE DASH 10, THREE DASH 11. DO, DO WE NEED TO SET A TIME LIMIT FOR THE PRESENTATION? AND IN THE REBUTTAL? I'LL GIVE YOU MY OPINION. I DON'T LIKE TIME LIMITS. I LIKE TO HEAR THE WHOLE STORY. UM, I JUST KNOW IN THE, IN ANOTHER SET OF BYLAWS WE HAVE, WE HAD TOM LIMITS. I NEVER GO BY 'EM, BUT I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, LET ME KNOW. I THINK IT, BECAUSE I MEAN, IT CAN, IT CAN GO LONG. I MEAN, I GUESS THAT WOULD BE YOUR'S PREFERENCE. I THINK WE OUGHT HAVE SOME KIND OF AN, EVEN IF IT'S AN ABSURD LIMIT. UM, I'M ONE OF THE PREVIOUS BOARDS I WAS ON, LITERALLY, PEOPLE CAN FILIBUSTER FOR WELL OVER AN HOUR IF THEY WANT TO, AND THEY JUST END UP SAYING THE SAME THING AGAIN AND AGAIN. SO I'M, I'M ALL INSTEAD OF BEING RUDE AND CUTTING THEM OFF YEAH. WHEN THEY JUST SAY, HEY, WE CONNECT THE TIME LIMIT. RIGHT. AND IF WE WANT TO, THE THING ABOUT TIME LIMITS, AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IS IF YOU WANT TO GRANT SOMEONE MORE TIME, YOU CAN ALWAYS DO THAT. YES. UM, [00:10:01] BUT IF YOU WANT TO REEL 'EM BACK IN AND IT ISN'T THERE, YOU CAN'T. SO, UH, WHATEVER YOU THINK WOULD BE FAIR AND REASONABLE OR EVEN ABSURD, WE COULD DISCUSS LIKE HALF AN HOUR. I MEAN, I, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW HOW, HOW LONG YOU WANT TO TAKE IT. WE LOOKED INTO THE STATE CODE TODAY AND OR THE, SO THE NEXT STEP AFTER THIS APPEALS BOARD, IF SOMEBODY'S NOT HAPPY, WOULD BE TO APPEAL TO THE STATE BOARD. TO THE STATE BOARD. MM-HMM. . AND ON THEIR, UM, PROTOCOL SHEET, THEY HAD A TIME LIMIT OF EIGHT MINUTES. IT'S NOT LONG ENOUGH. I PROMISE YOU IT'S NOT LONG ENOUGH. I AGREE. THAT DOESN'T SEEM REASONABLE, ESPECIALLY AT THIS LEVEL. I COULD SEE WHERE THE, THE STATE DOCKET MAY HAVE A NUMBER OF CASES AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'VE GOT 30 TO GET THROUGH IN A NIGHT, YEAH. EIGHT MINUTES IS GOOD. BUT I MEAN, I THINK GETTING WORSE FROM 15 TO 30 WORKS. YEAH. THAT'S WHAT I WAS I WAS GONNA SAY 30. WE CAN ALWAYS GRANT ONE MORE TIME. I MEAN, YEAH. I MEAN, YOU WANT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO PRESENT THE CASE SO WE CAN HEAR IT ALL. AND WITHOUT SAYING EIGHT MINUTES, YOU'RE DONE WHAT SOUNDS ON 15 OR 30. MOST PEOPLE CAN GET IT DONE IN 15 TO 20. I, I MEAN, IF YOU WANT TO DO 30, I'M GOOD WITH THAT MYSELF. AND THEN ON THE PRESENTATION PART, WE COULD DO 30, BUT THEN ON THE RE ON THE FINAL REBUTTAL, I DON'T THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE MORE THAN 10 OR 15. ONE 30. OKAY. THAT SOUNDS REASONABLE. CAUSE WE SHOULD HAVE ALREADY HEARD MOST OF THE MOST OF THE OH YEAH. APPEAL. AND THEN YOU JUST GIVE 'EM A BRIEF MOMENT IN CASE THE ONE OF 'EM SAID SOMETHING AND YEAH. MM-HMM. TO REPEAT THAT. SO BROUGHT UP A PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT WASN'T ADDRESSED INITIALLY OR SOMETHING. YEAH, YEAH. WE'RE GONNA GO 15 MINUTES ON THE REBUTTAL. 30 ON THE INITIAL. YEP. THAT SHOULD BE FINE. I THINK THAT'S MORE THAN GENEROUS. I AGREE. AND WE CAN ALWAYS AMEND THE BYLAWS LATER IF WE CHOOSE ANY MORE DISCUSSION ON THE BYLAWS. THE MOTION. WELL, THEY'LL NEED A MOTION FOR THAT SPECIFIC CHANGE. RIGHT. OR THE ENTIRE, WELL, THE ENTIRE BYLAWS WITH THAT AMENDMENTS NOT SO THAT IT'S CLEAR ON THE RECORD WHAT'S BEING VOTED ON. SO WE ALREADY VOTED ON 1.1. RIGHT. SO NOW IT'S JUST THREE 10 AND THREE. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO CHANGE THREE POINT 10 AND ADD 30, UH, A 30 MINUTE TIME LIMIT TO THE PRESENTATION. AND THEN THREE POINT 11, ADD, UH, DO 15 MINUTES ON THE REBUTTAL. ALSO, 1.1, YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO THROW THAT LIMIT. NO, YOU ALREADY DID. ONE POINT SAID IT NEEDED TO BE ALL IN ONCE, BUT THEN WE CAN, IT AS PRESENTED ONCE YOU'RE FINISHED WITH CHANGES, AGREEING ON CHANGES. IF YOU WANT TO DO IT THAT WAY, THE VERY END, THERE SHOULD BE A VOTE ON THE ENTIRE SET A AS AMENDED SO IT'S CLEAR ON THE RECORD WHAT THE FINAL SET OF BYLAWS ARE OR IS. GOTCHA. SO FIRST WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CLEAR ON, I'M SORRY, GEORGE. GEORGE. I'M, UM, GEORGE IS SUGGESTED CHANGES TO THREE 10 AND THREE 11. SO I MOTION THAT WE APPROVE THE CHANGES. GEORGE PROPOSED FOR THREE 10 AND THREE 11. WHICH ONE? THE SERGEANT SECOND MOTION. YOU MAY THE SECOND. SECOND. VERY GOOD. SORRY. SO YOU'RE SECOND. YOU'RE THE SECOND. I AM. WE WILL GET ROBERT'S RULES DOWN REAL QUICK. AND I ORDERED BOOKS FOR EVERYONE. THAT'S LIKE A, A BRIDGED VERSION. OH, YOU'RE, SO I'M JUST WAITING. THANK YOU. I HAD THEM MOVE BURNS THEN, BUT NOW I'M GONNA GET 'EM BACK AGAIN. ? UH, YES. IN FAVOR OF MAKING THOSE GEORGES. YES. CHARLES? YES. CHRISTOPHER? YES. WRITE THAT DOWN. I'LL CRINGE EVERY TIME I HEAR THAT. . I'LL DO IT. SO NOW DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER CHANGES TO DISCUSS ON THE BYLAWS? THEY LOOK GOOD TO ME AT, OKAY. AGAIN, LAUREN, MEMBERSHIP [00:15:01] TERMS? NO, WE HAVE TO APPROVE THE BYLAWS AS AN ENTIRETY, AS AMENDED THE ENTIRETY. OKAY. I I HAVE A MOTION THAT, UH, TO APPROVE THE BYLAWS AS PRESENTED ON WHAT THAT IS. YES. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE BYLAWS AS AMENDED. I SECOND THAT MOTION. OKAY, GEORGE? YES, YES, YES. UNANIMOUS. Y'ALL GONNA WITH ME? I'M NOT USED TO ALL THIS. SO YOU'RE ALL RIGHT. [6. Membership terms] WE READY FOR MEMBERSHIP. MEMBERSHIP TERMS. GOOD MORNING. OKAY, SO YOU'RE SAYING STATE CODE, UM, REQUIRES THAT MORE THAN HALF IF THE MEMBERS ARE UP FOR RE APPOINTMENT. AND IN HERE. SO WHAT WE'VE DONE IS RANDOMLY JUST PUT TERM LIMITS, UM, BY YOUR NAME. IF ANYBODY HAS ANY OBJECTION TO THESE, LET US KNOW. BUT, UM, EVERYBODY WILL SERVE A FIVE YEAR TERM. RIGHT NOW IT'S, UM, YOU'VE GOT ONE FOR ONE YEAR, TWO YEARS, THIRD YEARS. FOUR YEARS. SO THE PLAN WOULD BE THAT, UM, IN NOVEMBER OF EACH YEAR, YOU WOULD BE, COUNCIL WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO [7. Appeal Application and Fee] NEXT APPEAL APPLICATION. AND INDEED SO, UM, THE WAY THIS WILL WORK IS MONICA, WHO'S OUR PROPERTY MAINTENANCE OFFICIAL, SHE'LL GO OUT, SHE'LL DO INSPECTIONS, UM, SEND A LETTER IF THERE'S ANY VIOLATION, AND MAY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO OUT AN APPEAL FORM AND APPEAL IT TO THIS COURT. UM, THE STATE CODE PERMITS US TO CHARGE AN APPLICATION FEE. SO MY HOPE IS, IS THAT BOARD WILL GIVE A RECOMMENDATION, COUNSEL, AS TO WHAT YOU THINK THE FEE SHOULD BE. EACH OF YOU IS PAID A $50 STIPEND PER MEETING. UM, YOU CAN DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO COVER THE COST WITH THAT APPLICATION FEE OR IT, IT SETS YOUR PREROGATIVE, WHICH YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE IT. YEAH. WOW. WITHOUT ANY HISTORY AT ALL. THAT'S KIND OF HARD TO ESTIMATE. I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD EXPECT THE APPEALS TO FINANCE OUR ENTIRE OPERATION, BUT I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOME REASONABLE FEE JUST TO AVOID ABUSE OF THE SYSTEM. I MEAN, IF I CAN JUST GO AHEAD AND FILE, FILE AN APPEAL AND IT GIVES ME ANOTHER THREE MONTHS TO MAKE TO, YOU KNOW, I CHEAP INVESTMENT. OUR, OUR OTHER APPEALS BOARD, THE BOARD IS ONLY DIFFERENT. THE FEE FOR THEM IS THAT'S A $400 APPLICATION FEE. OUR SPECIAL USE PERMIT FEES IS $400. OUR BOARD OF ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW IS HUNDRED, IS A HUNDRED. UM, MISSING BOARD PLANNING COMMISSION, PLANNING COMMISSION. WELL, THAT'S THAT USEFUL ENCOMPASSES ALL THOSE FORMS. YOU JUST SAID SUVS. AND, BUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS BOARD AND THOSE IS THAT WE PAY FOR ADVERTISING. I MEAN, OUR ADVERTISEMENTS CAN COST $200 AND THEN NOTIFYING JASON PROPERTY OWNERS MAILING OUT LETTERS. SO, BUT WE DON'T, WE DON'T SUFFER FROM THAT, DO WE? SOMEONES THE ONLY COST THIS BOARD IS INCURRING AT THIS POINT IS PAYING THIS BODY, THIS MEETING AND DECIDING IF WE WANT TO GRANT SOMEONE, UH MM-HMM. APPEAL OR NOT. YEAH. YOU SAID YOU WORK AT AN APPEALS BOARD ELSEWHERE, DON'T YOU? YEAH. FOR THE COUNTY. DO THEY HAVE FOR WARREN COUNTY? YES. DO THEY HAVE A FEE ATTACHED TO THEIRS? A HUNDRED BUCKS? IT, IT'S BEEN A WHILE. I'M NOT SURE. YEAH, IF THE LAST ONE WAS A HUNDRED BUCKS AND THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN TO COVER THE ADVERTISEMENT. I DON'T THINK THAT, DO THEY HAVE, WE HAVE TO ADVERTISE FOR THIS? WE DON'T, WE DON'T NOTIFY ADJACENT PROPERTY HONORS. THERE'S NO SIR. NO, I DON'T THINK SO. YEAH, I JUST, IT WAS JUST SPENDING TWO 50 PER MEETING. BUT WE ARE SPENDING $250 PER MEETING IF WE MEET. YEAH. OKAY. I GOTCHA. , I'D BE PERFECTLY HAPPY SIGNING [00:20:01] IT AT THAT, AT A MINIMUM. YEAH. RIGHT. WELL, I THINK, I THINK AS A MINIMUM TWO 50. YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. PLUS COST. WHAT DO YOU THINK? THAT'S FINE. STAFF TIME. THAT'S FRANK. I'M SORRY. FRANK CHRIS TOO. I'M, I'M IN AGREEMENT INSPECTION FROM MS. HATERS AT A MINIMUM TWO 50. I THINK THAT'S THE MINIMUM. HOW SHOULD BE THAT? I WOULD, I WOULD, YOU KNOW, ME PERSONALLY, I WOULD MAKE IT A LITTLE HIGHER. UM, JUST FOR THE FACT OF, YOU KNOW, THE INSPECTION, IT'S GOING OUT AND, YOU KNOW, I KNOW IT'S ON A COMPLAINT BASIS, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THEIR TIME IS, IS, IS, IS DEFINITELY WORTH CUZ IT TAKES TIME, BUT FROM THEIR OTHER JOB THAT THEY WOULD BE DOING HERE IN THE TOWN AND, AND GO OUT AND, AND MAKE THIS INSPECTION. SO, UM, I WOULD, I I WOULDN'T, AND I LEAVE IT UP TO THE BOARD, BUT I WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING LESS THAN 300. I WAS LIKE, YEAH, I MEAN, IF THEY WANT AN APPEAL, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO MAKE IT SO THAT THEY'RE GONNA REALLY WANT TO DO IT. SO WHAT KIND OF CASES DO YOU I I'VE BEEN IN INDUSTRIAL CONSTRUCTION FOR A DECADE AND A HALF NOW. I'M, I'M OUT OF THE MULTI-FAMILY DWELLING. I MEAN, WHAT, WHAT TYPE OF, UM, APPEALS ARE WE GOING TO HEAR? WHAT, WHAT, WHAT DO YOU HEAR FROM YOUR, WE JUST HEAR CODE APPEALS FROM THE COUNTY SIDE. IS IT PREDOMINANTLY LIKE RESIDENTIAL TENANT KIND OF THINGS? RESIDENTIAL BUILDING CODES, MOSTLY YOU GUYS COMPLAINING IT RAINS IN HIS KITCHEN AND THE LANDLORD'S SAYING, I DON'T HAVE TO FIX THAT OR WELL, THAT'LL BE MORE OF WHAT WE HEAR HERE ON THE OTHER SIDE. WE HEAR JUST WHAT COMES OUT OF THE CODE BOOK. IT'S ON A, IT'S ON A, A BUILDING CODE ITSELF. GOTCHA. SO THEY FIND, BUT HERE IT'LL BE THE RAIN IN THE KITCHEN AND GOTCHA. WOULD YOU WOULD JUST BE HEARING DECISIONS THAT THE MAINTENANCE OFFICIAL RENDERS A VIOLATION. MM-HMM. , THE MAINTENANCE OFFICIAL WILL CITE A VIOLATION. THEY WOULD BE APPEALING THAT DETERMINATION OF VIOLATION AS THE CODE BOOK STATES. SO PREDOMINANTLY IT'S GOING TO BE THE LANDLORD SAYING, I DON'T THINK I HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THAT RULING. HERE'S WHY. IS THAT WHAT OUR APPEALS ARE GOING TO BE? IT IS IN NOT IT IS IN IT. HE WOULD BE, OR SHE WOULD BE APPEALING TO DECISION THAT IT DOESN'T MEET WHAT THE MAINTENANCE CODE BOOK SAYS. YES. AS THE VIOLATION IS IN THE INSPECTOR'S OPINION. SUBSTANDARD CONDITIONS. NO, I INTERPRET THIS STANDARD. RIGHT. IF THEY DON'T AGREE WITH MY INTERPRETATION OF THIS CODE, YOU WOULD DECIDE UNDERSTAND INTERPRETATION. I, WE, WE WILL DECIDE ON IS IF YES, THERE'S ONE FOR EVERYONE. SHE'S INTERPRETING IT PROPERLY IS BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE DOING. RIGHT. OR IF THERE'S A SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCE, FOR INSTANCE, AND WE HAVE ORDERED COPIES OF THIS, OF THE MAINTENANCE CODE FOR ALL OF YOU THAT HAVE NOT COME IN YET, YOU CAN ALSO FIND THAT ON BDC O A MM-HMM. . AND YOU, YOU CAN DOWNLOAD IT ON YOUR, IT'S REAL SMALL ON THE PHONE, BUT YOU CAN DOWNLOAD IT ON THE DESKTOP. SO I DOWNLOADED THAT FOR ME IT WAS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM THE VERSION THAT THEY HAVE. WELL THAT'S THE VIRGINIA CODE. THEY HAVE AMENDMENTS TO IT AS WELL. GOTCHA. OKAY. SO I, I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS AND LADIES INDULGING ME. UM, MY IGNORANCE HERE, UH, YEAH, I UNDERSTAND NOW WHY YOU GUYS WERE GOING WITH A A HIGHER APPLICATION FEE. SEEMS REASONABLE. ME. UM, WHERE WERE WE? 3, 3 50 SOMEWHERE. 3, 3 50. SO THE PERSPECTIVE WAS MADE BASED ON THE THOUGHT OF A PROPERTY OWNER THAT WAS RENTING THE PROPERTY. UM, YOU KNOW, WE LIVE IN FRONT ROYAL, RIGHT? AND SO SOME OF THESE PROPERTIES ARE PRIVATELY OWNED, YOU KNOW, RESIDENCES AND, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE PROPERTIES, I'M JUST THROWING OUT THIS NEXT, THIS, THIS THOUGHT IN MY HEAD IS THREE 50 SOMETHING THAT'S ACCEPTABLE IF THEY CAN BARELY AFFORD TO PAY FOR, YOU KNOW, THE RESIDENTS THAT THEY OWN, YOU KNOW, UM, DOES THAT LEAD US TO THINK THAT THREE 50 IS STILL SOMETHING THAT'S RESPECTABLE TO SOMEBODY WHO'S, YOU KNOW, MAYBE LIVING IN MORE OF A POVERTY TYPE OF LIFE THAT WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO AFFORD THAT TYPE OF, YOU KNOW, THAT TYPE OF PAYMENT. AND NOW IT'S OF KINDA LIKE A FORCE TO THEM WHERE THEY, THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO COME UP WITH THOSE FUNDS. SO I JUST WANTED TO THINK ABOUT IT ON THE FLIP SIDE OF IT'S [00:25:01] THREE 50 MAYBE TOO MUCH FOR SOMEBODY THAT'S A PRIVATE RESIDENT OWNER RATHER THAN THAN A LANDLORD. YOU KNOW, THAT'S GAINING AN INCOME FROM THE PROPERTY THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO GO, YOU KNOW, LISTEN TO IT. IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT, UM, THIS IS GONNA BE ON A, ON A COMPLAINT BASIS. SO YOU'RE REALLY NOT GOING TO TO BE SAYING, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY'S GONNA COME BY MY HOUSE AND SAY, OKAY, I THINK YOU NEED TO PAINT THE OUTSIDE OF IT. I DON'T THINK THIS IS WHERE COUNSEL WAS GOING WITH THIS. I I DO NOT HAVE THE STAFF CAPACITY TO BE DRIVING AROUND TOWN CITING PEOPLE FOR JUST ASKING THE QUESTION. ON THE FLIP, I LOVE THE, I LOVE THE THING BOTH SIDES. YOU KNOW, MOSTLY IT'S GOING TO BE COMPLAINTS. I I HAVE NO HEAT, MY LANDLORD WON'T FIX IT AND IT'S GONNA BE A TENANT LANDLORD SITUATION. YES. TYPICALLY, I WOULD SAY TYPICAL, IT COULD POSSIBLY BE PROP A NEIGHBOR COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR NEIGHBOR WHO OWNS THEIR PROPERTY. IT'S HARD TO SAY IF IT'S GONNA BE A TENANT LANDLORD ISSUED OR A PROPERTY OWNER ISSUE. YOU CAN'T GUARANTEE THAT IT'S ALWAYS GONNA BE A TENANT LANDLORD. RIGHT. YEAH. BUT I JUST LOVE CONVERSATION ABOUT THINGS. I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN SO GREAT AT AGREEING THAT YEAH. I FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, TO THINK ABOUT DIFFERENT FACETS OF THE THOUGHT, YOU KNOW? NO, I LIKE THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE APPROACH. I'M, I'M DOWN AND THE OTHER BOARD FEES ARE $400 AND ANY ROYAL RESIDENT WOULD HAVE TO PAY THAT. AND THE THING I'M STRUGGLING WITH IS, UM, THIS IS GOING TO BE WHERE A CODE OFFICIAL HAS MADE A VISIT AND DECIDED TO CITE SOMEONE. SO THERE'S ALREADY GROUNDS FOR YOU'RE IN VIOLATION OF SOMETHING, RIGHT? YES. MM-HMM. AND, AND, AND THE RECIPIENT OF THAT VIOLATION, I MEAN, IT'D HAVE TO BE THE PROPERTY OWNER. IT WOULD BE ADDRESSED TO THE PROPERTY OWNER. SO WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT AN IMPOVERISHED TENANT WHO CAN BARELY AFFORD, YOU KNOW, DO I BUY FOOD OR, YOU KNOW, SHOES FOR MY DAUGHTER. I AGREE WITH YOU. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT WE WERE GETTING INTO AT FIRST. THAT'S WHY I WAS THINKING OF KEEPING THE FLOOR LOW DOLLAR-WISE. BUT NO, I I THINK THIS IS SOMEONE WHO'S GOING TO WANT TO APPEAL, UM, A COMPETENT OFFICIAL'S DECISION. MM-HMM. . SO YEAH, I THINK IT SHOULD CARRY A, A BURDEN OF COST. I DON'T THINK THAT'S UNREASONABLE. AND IT IS NOT JUST RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY, CORRECT? IT CAN BE COMMERCIAL. IT CAN BE COMMERCIAL. NO. SO I'M NOT ASKING FOR AN EXACT NUMBER, BUT THE WAY THE, THE BYLAWS WERE WRITTEN, IT ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE GOING TO BE TENANT PROPERTY OWNER KIND OF RESIDENT RENTED RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY. WOULD YOU SAY THEY'RE, UH, UM, THE MAJORITY OF THE CASES OR MORE THAN HALF? I WOULD, I WOULD ASSUME YES. OF THE COMPLAINTS WE'VE HAD SO FAR APARTMENTS THAN MM-HMM. , THE TENANT COMING IN AND COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FILING COMPLAINT AGAINST THE LANDLORD AND THEN A BUILDING OFFICIAL IS DISPATCHED. THEY LOOK AT IT AND THEY GO, YEAH, IT REALLY IS RAINING IN YOUR KITCHEN. HEY LANDLORD, YOU GOTTA FIX THIS. AND THE LANDLORD'S GOING AIN'T FIX IN THAT, YOU KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE SHINGLES ARE. MM-HMM. . AND WHAT WE'VE ALSO DONE UP TO THIS POINT IS WE'VE DONE JOINT INSPECTIONS WITH THE COUNTY. SO ANYTIME WE'VE GONE IN, WE'VE HAD THE FIRE MARSHAL CODE OFFICIAL MM-HMM. AND THEN WE'VE ALSO HAD, UM, THE, UH, BUILDING OFFICIAL OR OR SOMEBODY FROM THE COUNTY'S OFFICE AT LEAST TWO TIMES. SO LIKE I SAID, IN IN, IN THE BOOK, UM, IT HAS IN THERE ABOUT RODENTS AND, AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. SO THE WAY THE BOOK HAS IS THE WAY THE CODE IS WRITTEN IN THERE, AND I DON'T HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME TO READ IT VERBATIM, BUT IT SAYS THAT IT SHOULD BE FREE FROM RODENTS. UM, IF IT'S FOUND THAT IT IS, YOU KNOW, THE NOTICE HAS TO BE FILLED OUT. THEY HAVE TO EXTERMINATE MM-HMM. AND THEY HAVE TO COME BACK AND REINSPECT, YOU KNOW, SO I, I'M THINKING, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE HEARING IS, YOU KNOW, SOME THINGS LIKE THAT AND IN THAT SORT OF THING. SO, UM, IT'S, IT'S, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK I WOULDN'T, LIKE I SAID, I WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING LESS THAN THREE 50, BUT UH, IT'S UP TO Y'ALL. I OKAY WITH THREE 50, WHAT DOES THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE THINK? , I'M GOOD WITH IT. . HEY LAUREN, DO YOU SEE THAT COVERING THE COSTS OF BETWEEN STAFF AND, AND PAPERWORK AND CITATIONS AND RESEARCH AND [00:30:02] TWO 50 COVERS THE BOARD COVER THE BOARD. SO ANOTHER HUNDRED HUNDRED PERCENT SHOULD COVER OUR TIME AND OUR SUPPLIES, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S ULTIMATELY WHAT WE'RE AFTER IS, IS TO COVER THE COSTS, YOU KNOW, NOT TO REALLY MAKE THE PROFIT FOR THE TOWN. AND THIS ISN'T AGREED. AND THIS IS AN APPLICATION FEE. THIS ISN'T LIKE A FINE WHERE IT'S MADE TO, IT'S NOT TO HURT YOU. RIGHT, RIGHT. JUST WANNA KEEP $52 A PIECE. I THINK I MISSED THAT. WHAT WAS THERE, WHAT WAS THAT? THEY'RE, THEY WERE ASKING HOW MUCH THE CODE BOOKS COST. CUZ WE'VE PURCHASED A CODEBOOK FOR EVERYONE AND THEY'RE 50 50. YOU'D LIKE $52. ABOUT 52 BUCKS. I THERE THING RIGHT THERE. YEAH. YES. SO DO WE, I MEAN, DO WE BREAK EVEN? WHERE ARE WE WITH THAT AT THE THREE 50 WITH ALL THE THINGS TOGETHER THAT NEED TO BE COVERED? THREE 50 WOULD COVER EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE FOR THIS MEETING. OKAY. WE DON'T HAVE AN APPEAL. OH, WE DON'T HAVE AN APPEALS. SO, SO, SO IN THE THOUGHT OF THE THOUGHT OF THAT, I MEAN, IF WE DID, IF WE DID AND YOU KNOW, WE WERE FOREGOING AN APPEAL AND STUFF LIKE THAT, WOULD THREE 50 STILL COVER THAT? OR WOULD WOULD 400 BE MORE APPEALING TO THE, TO THE THOUGHT TO YOU ONLY HAVE ONE APPEAL EVER. , I MEAN, 50 TIMES FIVE, THAT'S TWO 50 AND THEN TWO 50 TO PAY YOU. THAT'S 500. BUT NOW, YOU KNOW, NO ONE MENTIONED 500. THAT'S A LITTLE MORE THAN WHAT I THINK YOU GUYS ARE WILLING TO GO. WELL I THINK THE EDUCATION BEHIND IT OF KNOWING WHAT IS THE FINANCIAL BURDEN THAT THE TOWN TAKES IN PROCESSING, YOU KNOW, ALL THIS STUFF. MM-HMM. AND, YOU KNOW, AND HAVING US GO THROUGH IT. I MEAN, I KNOW THAT I WENT LOW IN THE BEGINNING BECAUSE I LIKE TO LOOK AT ALL THE DIFFERENT AREAS, BUT YOU KNOW, IF IT'S GOING, IF YOU KNOW, IF 500 IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THE TOWN AND ALL THE PARTIES TO BE INVOLVED SO THAT YOU KNOW, THE TOWN'S NOT, YOU KNOW, ABSORBING THAT COST IN A NEGATIVE WAY, YOU KNOW, THEN, I MEAN, I WOULD SAY THAT I WOULD SAY THAT WE NEED TO SUPPORT THE TOWN AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO AND NOT BE, YOU KNOW, TAKING FROM IT. I MEAN, I'VE BEEN IN OTHER AREAS IN MY LIFE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO, YOU WANNA MAKE SURE YOU COVER YOUR, YOUR OVERHEAD, YOU KNOW, AND AT THIS POINT, YOU KNOW, IF 500 IS THE NUMBER THAT COVERS THAT, YOU KNOW, SO THAT YOU KNOW WE'RE NOT PUTTING A BURDEN ON THE TOWN, UM, THEN I WOULD SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN 500 WOULD BE THE NUMBER. CUZ WILLINGNESS IS SOMETHING THAT I DON'T THINK I'M, I'M NOT WILLING, I'M WILLING TO SUPPORT THE TOWN IN MAKING SURE THAT YOU'RE NOT ABSORBING FOR THE SERVICES THAT WE'RE PROVIDING. MM-HMM. . UM, SO I MEAN I'M NOW WE'VE GONE FROM THREE 50 TO 500 . UM, BUT WE HAVE, BUT WE HAVE RIGHT REASON FOR IT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, DO YOU AGREE? I DON'T KNOW. UM, THIS SOUNDS LIKE, UH, AN INSURANCE ANGLE BECAUSE IT'S MORE OF A, WHAT'S A HAND WORTH KIND OF A QUESTION. UM, IT DEPENDS HOW MANY APPEALS WE'RE HEARING. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MONTHS WE WOULD HEAR THREE APPEALS AND THAT'S A LOT OF ICE CREAM MONEY. UM, I, I DON'T THINK I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW. UM, DO WE HAVE ANY KIND OF A HISTORICAL RECORD OF THE NUMBER OF APPEALS? NOT FOR THE TOWN. DO YOU HAVE ANY THAT ARE ALREADY MAYBE ON, ON THE HORIZON THAT, YOU KNOW, WE COULD HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF MAYBE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE NEXT FEW MONTHS WOULD BE? OH, THAT'S, THAT'S NOT ABLE TO BE DIVORCED . I MEAN I HAVEN'T, I HAVE NOT CITED ANYONE YET. OKAY. I GUESS I CAN LEAVE IT AT THAT. FAIR ENOUGH. THE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE, WE NEED THE BOARD SET IN PLACE. VIOLATIONS ARE SENT AND POTENTIALLY YOU COULD HEAR IT AN APPEAL. YEAH. SO CURRENTLY IF ANYONE WANTS TO APPEAL, HAVEN'T SEND ANYTHING BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN NO APPEALS MECHANISM IN PLACE. OH, SO THEY DON'T JUST HOPSCOTCH RIGHT. TO STATE LEVEL. SO IF NO, NO, IT HAS TO JUDGE HAS TO GO THROUGH CITATION FIRST. SO AT THIS POINT, ANYTIME WE'VE HAD COMPLAINTS, IF WHAT WE'VE DONE IS, WE'VE SAID WE CANNOT PROCESS THIS AT THIS TIME, BUT PLEASE CONTACT THE FIRE MARSHAL AND THEN STAFF, WE'VE ALSO REACHED OUT TO THE FIRE MARSHAL'S OFFICE. THEY CAN GO IN AND DO AN INSPECTION. WE'VE ACCOMPANIED, WE HAVE NOT SENT ANY CITATION. YEAH. WELL WE COULD ASSUME THAT THE REASON WHY WE'RE SITTING HERE IS BECAUSE THERE'S A NEED, A DIRECT NEED. ABSOLUTELY. AND SO WE CAN ASSUME THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA BE STAGNANT FOR THE NEXT TWO MONTHS JUST SITTING HERE LOOKING AT EACH OTHER OUR PHONE. SO WE CAN ASSUME THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE PEOPLE IN FRONT OF US THAT, YOU KNOW, SEEMS A SAFE ASSUMPTION. SO, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, WITHOUT HAVING ANY OF THE INFORMATION THAT WOULD BE NEEDED FOR THAT, YOU KNOW, TO BE IN STONE, MAYBE, MAYBE WE JUST GO FORWARD WITH WHAT WE WOULD ASSUME AND [00:35:01] SAY THAT THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD REASON WHY WE WOULD NEED TO START HAVING THE FUNDAGE IN PLACE RIGHT AWAY. NOT EVERYONE THAT RECEIVES A VIOLATION LETTER IS GOING TO APPEAL. APPEAL THE DECISION. UM, I'VE BEEN DOING CODE ENFORCEMENT FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS AND NO ONE HAS APPEALED MY DECISION FOR TOWN OR ZONING CODE. UM, WHEN I WORKED FOR BUILDING INSPECTIONS IN WARREN COUNTY, I CAN ONLY THINK OF TWO APPEALS WHILE I WAS THERE FOR FIVE YEARS. YEAH, I WAS GONNA TELL YOU, I DON'T KNOW IF GEORGE CAN AVERAGE IF I, I, IF I HAD TO SIT HERE AND THINK ABOUT IT ONE A YEAR. OH, ON, ON A CODE APPEAL. NOW THAT'S A BUILDING. IT'S BUILDING. SO I MEAN, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT ANIMAL THAN WHAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE HERE. I THINK WE'RE, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE BUSY AT FIRST. I THINK SO. AND, AND I GOT, YOU KNOW, I KIND OF GOT THE INCLINATION IN IT. IT'S, UH, WE'RE GONNA GET SOME LIKE BACK FROM CERTAIN PEOPLE AND UH, WELL, I'D LOVE TO HEAR, I'D LOVE TO HEAR WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT MOVING IT UP TO 500 OR KEEPING IT AT THREE 50 OR MS. HATERS OR SOMEBODY TO STEPH. Y'ALL YOUR, YOUR THOUGHTS. YOU GOTTA REALIZE YOU'RE MEETING ONCE A MONTH. YES, SIR. SO YOU COULD HAVE ONE CASE OR YOU COULD HAVE 10 CASES. SO YOU'RE ONLY MEETING ONCE A MONTH ON THESE APPEALS. OR YOU CAN HAVE ZERO CASES. AND IF THERE IS NOT A, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S NO CASE, THERE'S NO MEETING, NO MEETING. WELL, AND IN THE BYLAWS IT EVEN SAYS IF WE WANT TO, WE CAN, IF THERE'S A NEED FOR IT, IF THERE'S LIKE FOUR CASES PENDING AND ONE'S LIKE RAT INFESTATION OR WHATEVER, WE CAN DECIDE TO MEET EARLY MM-HMM. , IF I UNDERSTAND THE BYLAWS CORRECTLY. SO I I'M THINKING 400, THAT'S THE COST OF OUR OTHER PERMITS THAT GO TO IT TYPICALLY STARTS AT FOUR THOUGHTS. FIVE SEEMS HIGH, THREE SEEMS A LITTLE LOW. FOUR SUNS LIKE IN THE MIDDLE. AND WE CAN, I HATE TO SAY THIS AGAIN, WE CAN ALWAYS CHANGE IT IF WE WANT. NO, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS NEW. MM-HMM. . YEAH. IT'S GONNA TAKE US A LITTLE BIT OF HEARTACHE AND ACHES AND PAINS TO GET THROUGH. IF WE SEE WHAT WE'RE AT, WE CAN ALWAYS CHANGE IT, BUT YOU'LL GET A BETTER FEEL ONCE WE START. SO, SO I'M, AGAIN, I'M, I STARTED AT THREE 50 AND 400 WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM FOR ME BY NO MEANS. SO. OKAY. GOT TWO FOR 400, 400 GOING MOTION. SO THEY NEED TO MAKE A MOTION SO THAT WE CAN RECOMMEND IT TO COUNCIL. CAN I HAVE A MOTION? A MOTION THAT WE CHARGE $400 FOR AN APPEAL? A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. ALL OPPOSED? OPPOSED. NO. MOTION CARRIES UNANIMOUSLY. RIGHT. [8.A.Tax Forms] NEXT ONE. THE AGENDA TAX FORMS. THAT IS JUST, UM, HAS EVERYONE SUBMITTED THEIR PAPERWORK TO, TO LAURA? NOT YET. NO. NOT YET. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET PAID UNTIL YOU DO. I PRINTED OFF COPIES IF YOU WANT IT TONIGHT. WANT OUT? SHE FORGOT IT. A COPY OF THAT? YEAH, SHE SAID I THINK SHE SAID THREE PEOPLE HADN'T YET. I HAVE NOT. I HAVE NOT. I HAVEN'T FILLED IT ALL OUT. AND THEN JUST GET THAT TO LAURA IN HR. HERE IT IS. OR YOU CAN BRING IT TO ME AND I'LL TAKE IT UP TO HER. EITHER. WHATEVER'S EASY. HOLY MACY, IS THE APPEAL GONNA BE THIS MANY FORMS? , WE'RE GONNA NEED YOU TO PAY A FEE FOR THAT $400. WHO YOU DID YOU WANNA SAY? I GOT, I'VE ALREADY ED ABOUT AT THE HOUSE. WHO ELSE NEEDS ONE? I MEAN, I'LL, I'LL I'LL TAKE THE ONE. SO IT'S THE FEDERAL, THE STATE DIRECT DEPOSIT AND ONE OTHER. DO WE NEED TAKE ONE? WE ALREADY HAD ONE EITHER. IF YOU'VE ALREADY SUBMITTED IT TO LAURA, I THINK YOU'RE OKAY. YEAH, IT BEEN LAST YEAR'S. NOTHING'S CHANGED. DO WE GOTTA DO IT EVERY YEAR OR NO, IT'S NOT, I DON'T BELIEVE. OKAY. MM-HMM. , IF YOU WANT TO GIMME ONE, THEN I'LL, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE TO SUBMIT IT. ANNUAL. OH, THEN I DON'T NEED IT THEN. OKAY. , YOU SHOULDN'T NEED THESE. WELL, I WOULDN'T THINK SO. SHE'S GOT MY DIRECT DEPOSIT THEN I I'LL ASK HER AND LET YOU KNOW IF IT'S, IF IT'S NOT, IF IT'S NOT, I'LL COME BY AND PICK UP A PACKET, PLEASE. SURE. OKAY. I MEAN, I'M HAPPY TO GIVE YOU THIS ONE IF YOU WANT IT HOWEVER YOU'D LIKE TO DO IT. , DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER BUSINESS? UM, I'D LIKE TO BRING UP SOMETHING FOR MR. SUMMIT. UM, AND IT'S A REAL STICKLER FROM ME IS WHEN WE HEAR THESE THINGS ARE, ARE WE GONNA HAVE COUNSEL PRESENT FOR US? [00:40:01] UM, I THINK STAFF'S LOOKING INTO THAT. OKAY. IF THERE'S A STATE RESOURCE, UM, AS FAR AS A TOWN ATTORNEY BEING COUNSEL FOR THIS BOARD, UH, I I THINK THERE'S AN INHERENT CONFLICT OF INTEREST FOR ANY WELL, I THINK YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO BE HERSE IN MY POSITION BECAUSE JUST LIKE A, AN APPEAL TO THE BZA MM-HMM. O OF A ZONING DETERMINATION. THERE'S COMMUNICATION WITH STAFF ON THESE, ON THESE CASES. AND SO MY ALLEGIANCE IS TO STAFF. YES. ABSOLUTELY. SO THERE'S, THERE'S REALLY JUST E EVEN IF THIS BOARD WOULD TEND TO UPHOLD STAFF, IT'S JUST THE, THE RISK OF A CONFLICT FOR, FOR ME IN THIS CASE IS JUST, BUT ARE, ARE WE GONNA BE SET UP TO HAVE SOMEBODY THIRD PARTY? YEAH, WE'RE WE'RE LOOKING INTO THAT. OKAY. YEAH, I, I WAS TALKING WITH GEORGE AND WARREN EARLIER. YEAH. WE'RE GONNA FIND OUT WHAT OUR UM, WHAT OUR AVENUE IS FOR LEGAL REPRESENTATION AT STATE LEVEL OR SOME OTHER MEANS, BUT WE ARE LOOKING INTO THAT. OKAY. CALLED THE STATE. I JUST HAVEN'T RECEIVED A REPLY. THAT'LL, THAT'LL TAKE A LITTLE WHILE. YEAH. GOOD LUCK, . YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING. I MIGHT TRY TO BE DIFFICULT ABOUT IT. I JUST KNOW WE CAN BE PUT IN SOME STICKY SITUATIONS SOMETIMES AND NEED TO ANSWER AND IF, AND AND WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY QUALIFIED TO ANSWER SOME THINGS, UM, I JUST DON'T WANNA BE PUT IN THAT POSITION. CAUSE THAT USUALLY CAUSES PROBLEMS. LIKE I'VE BEEN THROUGH THAT ONCE ALREADY. THAT'S A STORY I'D LIKE TO HEAR. , MAYBE NOT HERE. YOU DON'T WANT IT TONIGHT. YEAH. UM, I DID NOTICE IN THE BYLAWS, SPEAKING OF SOMETHING ALONG THAT LINE, IT DIDN'T SAY WE HAD TO MAKE A DECISION WHEN IT'S PRESENTED. IT DIDN'T SAY WE HAVE TO DECIDE IMMEDIATELY. SO WHAT I TOOK THIS TO MEAN IS THE CASE IS PRESENTED TO US, WE HEAR IT, AND WE CAN RETIRE TO CHAMBERS FOR DISCUSSION OR WE CAN, WE CAN ADJOURN AND TAKE IT WITH US IF WE WANT. IS THAT EVERYBODY ELSE'S UNDERSTANDING AS WELL? WELL TYPICALLY WE WOULD MAKE A DECISION RIGHT THEN. YES. WHICH BRINGS UP ANOTHER POINT. I DON'T THINK I LIKE THAT. I WOULD WANT TO DISCUSS IT AS, AS A GROUP DISPERSED OR AT LEAST HAVE THAT OPTION IF I NEEDED TO. OH, I'M SORRY. DID I MISS SOMETHING? WAS THERE, IS IT ADDRESSED? UHHUH 3 13 2 5. TWO FIVE. YEAH, EXACTLY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. BUT THAT BRINGS UP THE POINT. UM, SOME, SOMETIMES. MM-HMM. , I AIN'T GONNA SAY ALL TIMES. DEPENDS ON THE WHAT YOU LOOKING AT POINT. BUT I'VE ALWAYS FOUND IT HELPFUL TO DO THE SITE VISIT. SO WHEN YOU'RE HEARING THE CASE, YOU CAN APPLY THE VISUAL TO WHAT YOU'RE HEARING. SO WILL WE GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT BEFORE IT'S PRESENTED TO US? IS IT IS A IT'S A GROUP. WELL, TYPICALLY THE WAY WE'VE DONE IT IN THE PAST, AND I HATE TO KEEP REFERRING BACK TO THAT, BUT WE'LL GET THE APPLICATION MM-HMM. AND WE'LL GET THE BOOKLET WITH THE COMPLAINT AND ALL THAT. WE'LL, WE'LL REVIEW THAT AND THEN WE USUALLY TRY TO SEND TWO DATES OVER TO WHERE WE CAN DO A SITE VISIT TO LOOK AT THE APPLICATION OF WHAT THAT CODE APPEAL IS ABOUT. MM-HMM. , THAT WAY WE HAVE THAT VISUAL BECAUSE SOME, I DO PHOTOS AND AND VIDEOS AND I'M, AND I'M OKAY WITH THAT, BUT I'D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT WE'RE, WHEN THAT WAY WHEN SOMEBODY'S STANDING IN FRONT OF ME EXPLAINING IT, I CAN PUT THAT VISUAL WITH THAT EXPLANATION. I AGREE. BECAUSE IT'S, TO ME, IT'S A HUGE THING. MM-HMM. . YEAH. DEPENDING ON WHAT IT IS. I AGREE WITH YOU. LIKE WE'RE AT INFESTATION. I MEAN, IF I'M A LANDLORD I CAN, I CAN SAY, UM, WELL HE KEEPS LEAVING TRASH OUT. MY TENANT'S THE ONE, YOU KNOW, TENANT, IN SOME CASES YOU CAN SEND A VIOLATION TO A TENANT AS WELL AND OH, THAT COULD BE ONE OF THE CASES. THAT'S ALSO INSECT IN INFESTATIONS. UM, SO WHEN YOU GO IN AND UNSANITARY CONDITIONS, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE THE LANDLORD'S ISSUE. THAT'S RIGHT. [00:45:01] A TENANT. TRUE. SO FOR CITING A LANDLORD BECAUSE THEY OWN THE PROPERTY FOR THAT. BUT YOU CAN ALSO CITE A, A TENANT. OH. OH. SO WE CAN SEND OUT TO LETTER. SO ONE WILL GO TO THE TENANT, ONE WILL GO TO THE LAWYER. I GOTCHA. OKAY. YEAH, I SEE YOUR POINT THOUGH ABOUT SITE VISITS MAY BE REQUIRED. I THINK SOME I AGAIN, I, I DON'T KNOW. UM, MAYBE SOME OF THEM COULD BE DONE WITHOUT IT, BUT A SITE VISIT MIGHT, WELL TYPICALLY YOU'RE GONNA TAKE PICTURES, CORRECT? MM-HMM. . SO I WOULD LOOK AT THE PICTURE AND DETERMINE CAN I MAKE A EXACTLY. DECISION BASED OFF THAT. IF NOT, THEN I'M GONNA NEED A SITE. YEAH. MM-HMM. , I'D BE WITH THAT. AND WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE HAVE, UM, THINK IT'S BOX WE'LL BE USE. SO WE WILL UP ANY, ANYTIME SHE DOES AN INSPECTION, SHE'LL UPLOAD THE PHOTOS AND ANY VIDEOS THAT ARE TAKEN AND THIS BOARD WILL BE PROVIDED A LINK. SO ABOUT A WEEK BEFORE YOUR MEETING WE'LL BE SENDING OUT THE MEETING MATERIALS. SO YOU SHOULD HAVE HER FINDINGS, UM, STAFF REPORT WILL BE ON THERE. NOT, WE HAVEN'T WORKED THAT PART OUT. YEAH. BUT, UM, I GOT, WE'LL PROVIDE ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED FOR THESE MEETINGS. SO WE'LL GET SOME HISTORY AND SOME BACKGROUND AND BE WELL AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON BEFORE MR. SMITH STANDS IN FRONT OF US AND SAYS, IT'S NOT MY FAULT. OH YEAH. A MEETING PACKET WILL GO OUT. GOTCHA. WITH ALL THAT. GOTCHA. OKAY. AND CAN I ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THAT? HAS EVERYONE SET UP THEIR TOWN EMAIL THAT WAS SENT TO YOU? I HAVE NOT YET. PLEASE DO THAT. UM, AND I, AND IF YOU HAVE ANY TROUBLE GRANT'S INFOS ON THERE. I'M NEW PASSWORD. WELL, HE SENT YOU THAT I THINK. OH NO, YOU CUZ YOU'RE NEW. OKAY, I'LL, I'LL TALK TO GRANT ABOUT THAT. UM, YEAH, I HAD A PROBLEM AND GRANT WAS REAL HELPFUL. WE WENT BACK AND FORTH A COUPLE TIMES AND GOT, IT WAS RESOLVED RIGHT AWAY. OKAY. HE'LL SEND YOU A NEW LINK FOR WITH A PASSWORD THEN YOU CAN SET IT UP. JUST LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'VE DONE THAT CUZ WE PREFER TO SEND OUT THE PACKETS ON THAT EMAIL ADDRESS. I'LL GET CRYSTAL RIGHT ON THAT. AND HE WORKS, HE WORKS IN THIS BUILDING TOO. I'M JUST COMING DOWN HERE TOMORROW. OKAY. HE WORKS FROM HOME, DOESN'T HE? OR IS HE BACK HERE NOW? BACK AND FORTH. BUT HE CAN HELP YOU OVER THE PHONE. SO YEAH. ANY MORE BUSINESS QUESTIONS ON THAT? I JUST THINK I'D MENTIONED IF YOU'RE GOING DO A SITE VISIT IN SOME OF THESE BUILDINGS, BE PREPARED AND HAVE GLOVES, BOOTIES, MASKS. DON'T WEAR YOUR NICE MY SEAT, GEORGE. HUH? YOU READY? YEP. WE CAN GET THEM LIKE LITTLE CHEAP PAINTER SEATS AND WITH THE BOOTIES AND ALL THAT. YOUR HAZMAT STUFF. I REMEMBER DOING BOILER REPLACING SOME SOUTHEAST DC YEAH, I'VE OH, YOU, ME, JOKING. OH YEAH. TIMES. UM, I GOTTA TELL YOU, THE ONLY THING THAT GIVES ME PAUSE IS HAVING LITTLE TO NO CONCEPT OF WHAT THIS WILL ENTAIL. I, I JUST, I WOULD LIKE, UM, YOU GET EDUCATED QUESTION. YEAH, I WAS GONNA SAY, I, I I THOUGHT, I THOUGHT YOU DID A GOOD JOB OF UM, YOU'RE GONNA GET EDUCATED. YEAH. THE FIRST, THE FIRST VISITOR TWO. THAT BOOK WILL PROBABLY HELP A LOT. ONCE, ONCE YOU GET THE BOOK AND KIND THE, AND READ IT. MAKE SENSE. AND I CAN EMAIL TO SUE THOSE COME IN IF YOU WANNA SORT TO THE OFFICE AND PICK IT UP. AND THEN A CODE OF STAFF PROVIDES TRAINING. SO ANY, ANYTHING THAT WE CAN FIND THROUGH THE STATE WEBSITE, ANY COURSES THAT WE CAN SUCH DO, IF WE CAN DO THAT. DOES THAT MAKE YOU, UM, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. I WOULD LIKE THAT. OKAY. WELL I WAS GONNA TOUCH BASE WITH TRAVIS LATER. I HAVE 'EM. MM-HMM. , WE HAVE A DIALOGUE TOGETHER. WHO'S TRAVIS? HE, HE'S THE STATE GUY THAT WOULD ACTUALLY PUT OUR TRAINING ON. OH. SO THE STATE, IT'S LIKE THROUGH THE JACK PROCTOR SCHOOL, THEY HAVE PROPERTY MAINTENANCE COURSES THAT TEACHES YOU THIS PROPERTY MAINTENANCE CODE. UM, IN THE MEANTIME, I MEAN, WE'RE GOING TO GET YOU THESE BOOKS. WE'VE, WE'VE BEEN LEARNING BY READING PREDOMINANTLY LANDLORDS HOME. IT'S USUALLY ABOUT A TWO, THREE DAY CLASS. YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES JUST A FEW. I'VE GOT SOME VACATION TIME I NEED TO BURN . I'M GOOD WITH THIS. I JUST, I I WANNA THANK EVERYBODY FOR VOLUNTEERING FOR THIS AND I WANT TO THANK THE TOWN. UM, THIS IS NEEDED INDEED. QUICK TIME. YEAH, IT IS. IS IT REALLY A LONG TIME? I GOTTA TELL YOU, MAYBE I LEAD A SHELTERED LIFE, ESPECIALLY SINCE COVID AND I'VE BEEN WORKING FROM HOME REALLY SUCCESSFULLY. I LIKE IT. UM, I REMEMBER WHEN WE VOTED ON THIS, YOU KNOW, AND, AND JUST THINGS STICK WITH YOU. THIS LADY COME IN BEFORE COUNCIL. DID SHE, SHE WAS UPSET. SHE SAID SHE HADN'T HAD YOU [00:50:03] TRYING TO GET HER AND THIS GIRL HAD KIDS. MM-HMM. . SO, UM, IT, IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT'S DEFINITELY NEEDED HERE IN THE TOWN. UNDERSTOOD. AND EVERYONE HAS THE SEVERITY OF IT. YEAH. YEAH. I MEAN THERE'S PLACES HERE IN THE TOWN. HE CAN SIT IN A THE BEDROOM AND SEE DAYLIGHT TO THE OUTSIDE. THAT'S GOOD. I, YEAH, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS LATER, BUT I GUESS WE'RE, UH, BREATHING DAYLIGHT AS IT IS. WE'RE HERE AS YOU NEED TO. WE'RE HERE AS LONG AS YOU NEED MOTION TO ADJOURN. I'M LIKE THAT ION. YEAH. SECONDED. AYE FAVOR? AYE. OPPOS CARRIES YOUR NAME AND SEE AGAIN WHO WAS THE SECOND, I'M SORRY, GEORGIA. WELL, YOU WERE THE SECOND I MADE THE MOTION. THE SECOND, SECOND CC, SECOND NUMBER OF SEGMENTS. NO HEAT. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.