[00:00:02]
CALL TO[Planning and Zoning Work Session on January 4, 2023.]
ORDER.ARE WE RECORDING? WE ARE RECORDING.
WHERE IS THE CAMERA? IT'S LIKE RIGHT UP THERE.
RIGHT IN THE LINE OF FIRE UP, UH, FOR OUR ROW CALL THIS EVENING, UH, STATEMENT.
I WOULD POINT OUT THAT WE HAVE TWO OF OUR PLANNING COMMISSIONERS.
MR. UH, GLENN WOOD IS ABSENT THIS EVENING.
WE HAVE TOWN STAFF, THE TOWN ATTORNEY, AND WE ARE READY TO CONDUCT BUSINESS.
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS IF WE CAN MOVE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO THE LAST ITEM ON OUR AGENDA TODAY.
UM, IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S OKAY WITH COMMISSIONER.
CHANGING THE AGENDA, WE'LL MOVE THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR IS FINE.
FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS APPLICATION NUMBER 22 4 94.
A REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A GROUND FOR DWELLING AT 4 37 SOUTH ROYAL STAFF.
WOULD YOU DO SO TIME TO ENLIGHTEN APPLICATION 2, 2, 4, 9 4 FOR BARBARA SAMUELS.
UH, THAT PROPERTY IS ZONED THE C ONE COMMUNITY BUSINESS DISTRICT.
UH, SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS REQUIRED FOR A DWELLING UNIT ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR.
UH, YOU SHOULD CONTAINED IN YOUR PACKAGE, OR IF YOU WANT IT DID GIVE A, A ENGINEERING, UH, RENDITION OF THE, UH, BUILDING ITSELF THAT'S ON THE SCREEN BEHIND YOU.
YOU WANNA LOOK AT THAT TO DO THE FIRST, SORRY, FRAME PLEASE.
IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE PROPERTY, THAT'S THE SAM'S SNEED ABILITY BUILDING, WHICH IS DOWN ON THE OTHER SIDE.
THE, UH, DWELLING UNIT WOULD BE THIS UNIT, UH, CLOSEST TO YOU.
WE COULD GO TO THE FLOOR PLAN.
UH, SO THE FLOOR PLAN IS THE DWELLING UNIT WOULD BE ON THIS END OF THE DRAWING OUTLINED IN RED.
SO, UH, THE DWELLING UNIT WOULD BE ABOUT 939 SQUARE FEET.
UH, OUR CODE REQUIRES THAT TO BE 600.
SHE ALSO HAS A DWELLING UNIT ON THE, UH, SECOND FLOOR.
AND THE REST OF THE BUILDING IS, UH, PROFESSIONAL OFFICES ON THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR DESIGNATED FOR THAT.
UM, SOMETHING YOU SHOULD CONSIDER, UH, THE PROFESSIONAL OFFICES, UH, TAKE UP ABOUT 1,581 SQUARE FEET ON THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR.
AND WITH THE PARKING REQUIREMENT THAT'S, UH, FOR PROFESSIONAL OFFICES, THAT'S ONE PARKING SPACE PER 300.
SO ESSENTIALLY, UH, THEY WOULD NEED 11 PARKING SPACES FOR THE PROFESSIONAL OFFICES AND EACH DWELLING UNIT, WHICH REQUIRED TWO FOR THE TOWN CODE, GIVING THEM A TOTAL OF 15 SPACES.
YEAH, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
UH, THAT'S THE, UH, LAYOUT OF THE LOT WITH THE PARKING.
WELL, I THINK IT'S SHRUNK UP, DIDN'T IT? YEAH.
SO THAT'S WORSHIPING HOT WATER.
SO THERE'S A LAYOUT OF A PHOTOGRAPH WE TOOK THIS WEEK.
AS YOU CAN SEE, THEY ONLY HAVE WHEEL STOPS OR CURB STOPS FOR THE PARKING.
UH, SEVEN SPACES PLUS ONE HANDICAPPED HERE AT THE VERY END.
UH, THE PARKING LOT IS NOT STRIPED, SO SHE HAS SEVEN REGULAR PLUS THE ONE HANDICAPPED GIVING HER A TOTAL OF EIGHT WITH THE WHEEL STOPS.
UH, BUT WITH THIS USE, THERE'LL BE TWO MORE FOR THE DWELLING UNIT AND TWO FOR THE, UH, EXISTING DWELLING UNIT.
THAT'S THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE WHEEL STOPS.
UH, AND THAT WILL NOT ACCOMMODATE, UH, TWO-WAY TRAFFIC ON THE OTHER SIDE.
SO ADDITIONAL PARKING WOULD HAVE TO GO HERE ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE PROPERTY IN THIS PAVED AREA.
SO SHE HAS EIGHT AND IS REQUIRED THAT SHE HAS 15.
SO, UH, YOU MAY WANNA CONSIDER, UH, THEM, UH, HAVING THE PARKING LOT STRIPED WITH THE TOWN CODE REQUIREMENTS FOR PARKING, UH, LOT, UH, PARKING SPACES, UH, TO ACCOMMODATE, UH, THE REQUIRED
[00:05:01]
PARKING FOR THAT LOT, MR. JOHN, UH, TO THE LEFT.ALL OF THAT THAT YOU SEE PAVED THERE IS, UH, THEIR PROPERTY.
SO SHE COULD HAVE PARKING ON BOTH SIDES OF THAT? YES.
IT JUST COULD NOT BE DOWN HERE AT THE, UH, THE OTHER SLIDE AT THE BEGINNING.
BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE, UH, REQUIRED TRAVEL WIDTH FOR TWO-WAY TRAFFIC.
UH, SHE HAS 26 FEET BETWEEN THE PARKING SPACE AND THE END OF HER PARKING LOT.
YOU NEED 22 FOOT OF TRAVEL WIDTH FOR 90 DEGREE PARKING.
UH, SO ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, YOU AIN'T GONNA HAVE LIKE, UH, EIGHT FEET LEFT OVER, WHICH IS NOT, GIVE YOU A TRAVEL WAY THROUGH THERE.
UH, SO THAT WOULD BE PROBABLY A CONDITION THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO PUT ON IF YOU DESIRE TO, UH, RECOMMEND APPROVAL FOR THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT IS FOR THE PARKING TO BE STRIPED.
WELL, WELL, LEMME ASK A QUESTION.
DO WE REQUIRE THE PARKING LOT AS THEY STRIPE? WELL, YOU REQUIRE TO HAVE 'EM THE DESIGNATED PARKING AREAS.
BUT ON ALL THE SHORT TERM RENTALS WE APPROVED, WE DON'T MAKE 'EM GO OUT AND STRIPE THEIR TWO PARKING SPACES OR THREE OR WHATEVER THEY HAVE.
THOSE ON THE PARKING, ON THE RESIDENTIAL UNITS, YOU HAVE A, A DRIVEWAY THAT IS THE WIDTH OF THE TWO PARKING SPACES.
BUT I'M SAYING WE DON'T MAKE SHORT-TERM RENTALS AS AN EXAMPLE OF STRIKE, CORRECT? WELL, IF IT'S THEIR DRIVEWAY, NO, WE, BUT IT'S THEIR DRIVEWAY.
I, THAT'S JUST THE CONSIDERATION THAT, UH, IF THE USE HAS CHANGED FOR THE, UH, PROFESSIONAL OFFICES, THEN THAT HAS TO ACCOMMODATE DIFFERENT PARKING AS THE USE CHANGES THAT WE MAY BE ONE CONSIDERATION.
WELL, WE CAN CERTAINLY ASK THEM IF YOU THINK IT'S NECESSARY TO STRIKE THIS BOARD DID MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION WITH THE LAST SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR A GROUND FLOOR APARTMENT AT SIX 50 WEST 11TH STREET BACK THREE MONTHS AGO.
BUT DID THEY DO IT? THEY DID IT WELL, YOU INCLUDED THAT AS A CONDITIONAL APPROVAL.
BUT DID THEY DO IT? I BELIEVE WE HAVE.
UNLESS, UNLESS YOU WANNA CONSIDER THE WHEEL STOPS AS AN ALTERNATIVE.
THAT'S, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM THE WAY IT IS.
I MEAN, THE ONLY THING, IF YOU DO A CHANGE OF USE WITH THE BUILDING ITSELF, THEN EACH OF THOSE USE TRIGGERS, UH, THE PARKING REQUIREMENT.
IF IT'S A CHANGE OF USE, HOW MANY BUSINESSES OR ANYTHING? UH, RIGHT.
THE SECOND FLOOR, UH, BUILDING, UH, SHE HAS NO ONE OCCUPIED IN THAT OFFICE AREA CURRENTLY.
BUT, UH, THE PARKING IS DETERMINED ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE BUILDING UNLESS THE USE CHANGES OUT OF PROFESSIONAL OFFICE.
SOMETHING LOUD LIKE A MATTER OF A RIGHT.
AND ANOTHER CONDITION YOU MAY WANNA CONSIDER IS, UH, THE DWELLING UNIT ON THE BOTTOM FLOOR.
UH, IF SHE HAS GRANTED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THEY'LL RENOVATE THE BOTTOM FLOOR.
IF YOU LOOKED IN YOUR PACKAGE, UH, TO ACCOMMODATE HER LIVING, UH, THERE, UH, YOU MAY WANNA PUT A CONDITION ON THERE THAT'LL WILL ONLY BE ONE DWELLING UNIT THAT COULD NOT BE FURTHER, UH, DIVIDED UP INTO TWO DURING THE CONSTRUCTION PHASE OR WHEN THAT GETS APPROVED.
THAT'S SOMETHING YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER.
AND STAFF WOULD ALSO LIKE TO BE LEGAL TO INSPECT, TO VERIFY THAT THERE'S ONLY ONE DWELLING UNIT PRIOR TO THE ISSUANCE SERVICE.
CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY BY THE COUNTY.
WE CAN PUT THOSE IN THE STAMP RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE STAMP REPORT.
THAT, THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD PROBABLY RECOMMEND.
I MEAN, ARE YOU KIND OF CLEAR ON THOSE MATTERS? WHAT WE'RE IT'S A 900 SQUARE FOOT UNIT, SO YOU COULD HAVE TWO ROOMS, TWO BEDROOMS, YEAH.
YOU CAN, IT'S JUST THAT THAT CANNOT BE FURTHER PUT INTO ANOTHER DWELLING UNIT.
WE SEE THAT HAPPENING WHERE THEY HAVE ANOTHER ENTRANCE CENTER.
WE DON'T WANT THE, THAT THE ENTIRE DOWNSTAIRS TO BE CONVERTED INTO APARTMENTS FOR DWELLING UNITS WITHOUT US BEING AWARE AND WITHOUT PROPERLY PERMITTING THAT USE.
AND THE WHOLE PURPOSE FOR THE SPECIAL USE IS, UH, GROUND FLOOR ON THE COMMERCIAL BUILDING, CORRECT? YES.
EVEN, AND THIS TO ME IS NOT A REAL PROBLEM CAUSE IT'S IN THE BACK.
IT'S NOT ACTUALLY OF THE UNIT THAT'S FRONTING ON ROYAL AVENUE.
WE WOULD'VE COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS WHERE THE FRONT ON MAIN STREET IS, UH, A BUSINESS OR A OFFICE.
AND THEN IN THE BACK, UH, THERE'S ALTON AN APARTMENT, RIGHT.
SO THIS, YEAH, THIS, THE DWELLING UNIT BE IN THE VERY REAR, UH, IN THE PARK AND WOULD PROBABLY BE BACK.
AND THIS WILL GO TO PUBLIC HEARING ON THE 18TH.
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YOU CAN LOOK OVER YOUR PACKET THAT, UH, SHE, UH, ADMITTED OTHER STUFF WITH.UH, SHOWING THAT, UM, NOW SOMEWHERE THE COUNTY HAD LIKE EIGHT OR NINE SHORT TERM RENTAL APPLICATIONS COMING UP.
PARDON? YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON THIS APPLICATION? NO, SIR.
NEXT ITEM WOULD BE, UH, CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN.
YOU WANT TO UPDATE US ON THE C I P? YEP.
SO TYPICALLY THIS IS AN ANNUAL OCCURRENCE.
WE BRING STAFF BRINGS THE CIP P TO PLANNING COMMISSION FOR APPROVAL.
UM, THIS YEAR OUR C I P, UM, IT'S ALMOST, I I BELIEVE IT'S ACTUALLY IDENTICAL TO LAST YEAR'S.
UM, THERE ARE ADDITIONAL ITEMS THAT ARE MENTIONED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT ARE NOT ON THE CIP P, BUT STAFF HAS NOT HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO COME UP WITH PRICING OR GIVE YOU ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON THOSE.
SO WE, THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED HERE.
UM, THIS IS LITERALLY JUST LAST YEAR'S.
WE NEED THE DATE, UM, PROVIDED YOU FY 22 TO 26.
UM, WE HAVE PROVIDED JUST A LITTLE BIT OF A DISCUSSION ON SOME OF THE VARIOUS PROJECTS WHERE WE'RE AT WITH THOSE.
UM, LAST TIME WE GOT A WHOLE THICK NOTEBOOK LAST, WE GOT THIS LAST TIME.
WE'RE GONNA GET THAT THIS YEAR.
NO, I WOULD BET ON NEXT YEAR GETTING INPUT LIKE THAT.
THE ONLY ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I GOT, THE ITEMS WE DO HAVE FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WHICH ARE ITEMS CONTAINED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WHY ARE THEY IN RED? OKAY, AT THIS POINT, I DON'T BELIEVE ANY, YEAH, IT DOESN'T BE ANY F 1 23 OTHER THAN, UM, DATING AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
AND A LOT OF THIS, THE PLAN IS, YOU KNOW, ONCE WE GET THROUGH THIS CONFERENCE PLANNING PROCESS, IF WE CAN GET A TRANSPORTATION PLAN GOING AND GETTING A STUDY, I THINK THAT'LL GIVE US A BETTER FOUNDATION FOR OUR I P NEXT YEAR.
WELL OBVIOUSLY WITH THE REZONINGS WE HAVE COMING UP, UH, IT IS TIME TO REALLY HUNKER DOWN AND START LOOKING AT THE, UH, TRANSPORTATION NETWORK, ESPECIALLY ON THE 6 0 6
UM, AND THESE NUMBERS ARE PROBABLY STABLE THAT WE HAVE CLAIM, AND ALTHOUGH THEY ARE A NUMBER, UM, I'M NOT SURE, I DON'T BELIEVE THESE ACCOUNT FOR THE RECENT INFLATION LAST.
AND I THINK NUMBERS HAVE BEEN THERE QUITE A WHILE.
AND THIS WILL ALSO GO TO A PUBLIC HEARING ON THE 18TH.
CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION? I DON'T, IF YOU WANT ME ANSWER.
BUT THE 40,000, THE LEASE RUN, FLY OVER IT $40,000 IN CISCO 25, THAT WOULD BE FOR THE FIRST PHASE.
THAT WOULD BE STUDYING IT, MAYBE LOOKING AT THE, THE, WHAT IS IT? THE ALIGNMENT, UM, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THE PLATS AND THE ALIGNMENT THAT WE HAVE ARE FROM 1991.
LEE RUN PARKWAY WASN'T CONSTRUCTED AT THAT TIME.
SO I THINK THIS WOULD JUST BE FOR THAT FIRST INITIAL STUDY PHASE OF WHAT ARE OUR OPTIONS, HOW DOES THIS WORK? SO 19 91, 19 91, WAS THAT ACTUAL AN ENGINEERING PROJECT OR WAS THAT'S THE DATE OF THE SURVEY THE STAFF HAS IN OUR RECORDS.
AND THERE WAS NOTHING FURTHER EVER DONE ON THAT.
PARKWAY WAS BUILT, RUN PARKWAY WAS BUILT.
I'M THINKING FLYOVER, FLYOVER.
NO, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'VE GOT THESE SURVEYS.
UM, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME CHARETTES THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, UM, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY DOCUMENTS FROM THAT.
HAVE YOU CHECKED WITH, UM, VITA AND EDBURG, SO WELL, WHEN WE GET TO OTHER PROJECTS, UM, OR DISCUSSIONS TONIGHT? BECAUSE IF THERE WAS ANY ENGINEERING DONE, AND IT'S POSSIBLE THERE WAS THEN VDOT AND EDINBURG WOULD HAVE IT.
UM, DO WHAT THERE, IF THERE WAS, I MEAN, IF VDOT EVER GOT INVOLVED IN LOOKING, THAT WOULD BE, AS YOU RECALL, BDO RESPONDENT TO THE REQUEST TO REVIEW THE, UM, UM, THE REZONING ZONING APPLICATIONS.
[00:15:01]
SO THEY'RE AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON.BUT I MEAN, I'M JUST, I WAS JUST DELVING INTO ANCIENT HISTORY TO SEE IF ANY ENGINEERING ACTUALLY DONE, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S BEEN ANY ACTUAL ENGINEERING DONE BEYOND THAT INITIAL SURVEYING.
THEY HAVE THE GEOMETRIC LAYOUT CORRECT.
OF THE RIGHT OF WAY IN THE CENTER LINE, WHICH THEY GOT FROM THE SURVEY.
THEY JUST SAID THE ROAD INITIALLY.
WELL, OF WHAT, HOW ABOUT WHITE ONE TO DISCUSS IT WHEN TALK ABOUT THE COMP PLAN.
ALL WE'RE TRYING TO GET DONE HERE IS, IS THE ABSOLUTELY IS THE, SORRY TO SIDETRACK, BASICALLY JUST TO TOUCH BASE THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE THIS ON THE 18TH AND OTHER ITEMS MAY COME UP BETWEEN NOW AND THE MEETING, AND YOU'LL UPDATE THIS ON THAT.
UM, I DON'T RECKON THERE'S ANY, WELL, ACTUALLY THE MAP PROBABLY DOESN'T CHANGE VERY MUCH TO, UNLESS IT'D BE NICE TO HAVE THAT MAYBE AT THE PUBLIC HEARING IN CASE THERE ARE QUESTIONS ON WHERE SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE LOCATED.
YOU CAN MODIFY MY MAP THAT I HAD.
SO WE WILL LOOK AT THAT ON THE 18TH ALSO.
NEXT ITEM OF BUSINESS TONIGHT.
AGAIN, WE'RE PUTTING THE, UH, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, UH, AT THE END.
SO APPLICATION NUMBER 22 0 3 85, THE REZONING FOR NVR RYAN HOME STAFF.
IS THIS YOUR POWERPOINT OR THE APPLICANT? THE APPLICANT PREPARED THE, OKAY.
SO THE, THE APPLICANT IS HERE TONIGHT IN CASE WE HAVE QUESTIONS, CORRECT? YES, THE APPLICANT IS HERE.
I WILL JUST POINT OUT THAT, UH, NORMALLY ON THE WORK SESSION, WE DON'T HOLD PUBLIC, UH, PUBLIC HEARING, UH, THIS, BUT WE DO OCCASIONALLY HAVE QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT.
SO, UM, UH, IF WE DO HAVE QUESTIONS, WE WILL CERTAINLY ASK YOU AND, AND GET INFORMATION FROM THAT.
UM, YOU'RE MORE THAN, YOU KNOW, WELCOME TO ASK FOR ANY POINT OF CLARIFICATION, BUT GENERALLY, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE IS NO PUBLIC FORUM IN TONIGHT'S MEETING.
SO THE APPLICANT OF MDR HOLMES, THEY ARE PROPOSING A REZONING OF THE AREA OUTLINED HERE IN YELLOW.
THEY WOULD LIKE TO SUBDIVIDE INTO 134 SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOMES.
YOU'RE LOOKING AT A DENSITY OF ABOUT THREE UNITS PER ACRE.
UH, THEY WOULD BE, THEY WOULD PROVIDE PUBLIC STREET SERVICE WOULD BE SIDEWALKS.
UM, THIS WOULD BE IN CONFORMANCE WITH OUR LANDSCAPING ORDINANCE AND THEY'D BE IN CONFORMANCE WITH OUR, UM, UH, SANITARY SEWER WATER, UH, REQUIREMENTS.
UM, THIS IS A VIEW OF THE PROPERTY.
SO THIS IS FACING, UH, SHENANDOAH SHORES ROAD AND THEN HERE, THIS IS NORTHWEST, UH, BELIEVE YOU CAN SEE
UM, AND SO TONIGHT THE PLANS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED, IT'S A REVISION FROM THE PREVIOUS PLANS THAT YOU LOOKED AT.
THERE'S BEEN A REDUCTION OF LOTS FROM 142 DOWN TO 134.
UM, THEY HAVE ALSO PROVIDED 5.5 ACRES OF A RIGHT OF WAY RESERVATION FOR THE EXTENSION OF LEECH RUN PARKWAY.
THEY'VE ADDED, UM, WALKING TRAILS AND OPEN SPACE AND THEN A PLAY FIELD.
AND THEN THEY'VE ALSO AMENDED THEIR PROFFERS TO INCLUDE ABOUT $3,600 PER UNIT TO THE TOWN FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
UM, THIS IS THE ORIGINAL LAYOUT.
YOU CAN SEE HOW THESE LOTS OVER HERE, RIGHT UP AGAINST THIS PROPERTY LINE.
AND THIS GUY COMES OUT, UM, IN THE NEW ALIGNMENT.
YOU CAN SEE, UH, THE LOTS HAVE BEEN SHIFTED OVER.
THEY'VE LOST A FEW IN THAT THERE'S NOW AN AREA TO ACCOMMODATE A FUTURE FLYOVER.
UM, I WILL SAY THIS, UM, THE AREA HERE WOULD, UH, IT WOULD ACCOMMODATE, I WOULD SAY, AN ALTERNATIVE ALIGNMENT FROM THE PLATS THAT WE'VE, WE CURRENTLY HAVE ON FILE FROM 1991.
UM, AND WE WOULD HAVE TO DO, WE WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO DO WITH, UM, A, A STUDY OR SOME TYPE OF, UM, UH, REVIEW TO, JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT, UH, AN ALTERNATIVE FINDING WOULD BE POSSIBLE.
DID YOU ALSO SEE THE ADDITION OF THE TRAILS
[00:20:01]
HERE, THE DASH LINES? SO THERE'S CONNECTIVITY THROUGHOUT THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT, AND THEN THE STARS INDICATE COMMUNITY, UM, AREAUM, AND THEN THE APPLICANT ALSO PROVIDED THEIR FISCAL IMPACT ANALYSIS.
AND BASICALLY WHAT THAT SHOWS IS THAT THERE WOULD BE AN ANNUAL, UM, NET, UH, POSITIVE BENEFIT OF ABOUT $357,000 TO THE TOWN.
ANY QUESTIONS? STAFF, UM, FOR THE APPLICANT? COMMISSIONER, YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? UM, WHAT IS IMPACT OFFSITE CALCULATED AND WHAT GOES INTO THAT FIGURE? UM, IMPACTS ONSITE, I ASSUME MEANS THE PROPERTY TAXES CASE.
UM, WHAT IS IMPACT? CAN YOU LOOK AT THE, UH, FISCAL IMPACT ANALYSIS REPORT? I BELIEVE THE OFFSITE WOULD BE, UM, LET'S SEE.
THERE'S THE, YEAH, I KNOW THEY DETAILED IT IN HERE.
PAGE JUST DON'T WANNA MISSPEAK, RIGHT, YOUR HONOR.
SO OFFSITE, UM, YOU'RE SAYING IT LOOKS LIKE BUSINESS RECEIPTS.
UM, SO THESE ARE CONSUMER EXPENDITURES.
SO THIS IS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SPENDING MONEY IN THE, THE COMMUNITY.
AND THEN I BELIEVE, UM, SALARIES TAX.
OKAY, SO REAL ESTATE TAXES, MACHINERY AND TOOLS, TAX, RETAIL SALES TAX, B POLL, LODGING, ALL THE MISCELLANEOUS TAXES.
THAT'S SHEET THAT'S ON SHEET 22 OF YOUR DOCUMENT.
AND YOU PROVIDED A PRETTY IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS HERE OF HOW THEY ARRIVED AT ALL OF THEIR, THEIR NUMBERS.
UM, I, THAT WAS SPOKEN THE LAST TIME.
THERE WAS CONSIDERABLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEIR PROPER OFFER AND WHAT THE COUNTY.
DO WE HAVE ANY RESOLUTION ON THAT YET? FOR NVR, FOR HEPATITIS, FOR NVR.
UM, WITH WHAT NBR IS OFFERING, THEY, UM, THE AMOUNT THAT THEY'RE OFFERING FOR THE SCHOOLS HAS THE BUYRIGHT CREDIT, AND I THINK THAT'S LIKE 24% THAT SHOULD ACCOMMODATE, UM, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT THE COUNTY IS ASKING FOR AND WHAT THEY ARE OFFERING AND THAT THEY BELIEVE THEY'VE ALSO CREDITED A CERTAIN AMOUNT FOR THE PARK AND OPEN SPACE AREA.
THE TRAILS THEY PROVIDED HAS LEGAL REVIEWED THE PROFFERS? UH, THEY, IT HAS BEEN SENT, UH, THE TOWN HAS RETAINED COUNSEL ON THIS TO REVIEW.
SO WE DON'T HAVE A REPORT FROM THEM YET.
NO, NO COMMENTS FROM OUR LAND USE ATTORNEY.
NO COMMENTS FROM VDOT NOR NO COMMENTS FROM THE COUNTY.
UH, I THOUGHT WE DID HAVE COMMENTS FROM VDOT OR THE INITIAL ONE, RIGHT? WHAT, WHAT ABOUT THIS ONE? WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANYTHING BACK FROM THIS REVISED.
WE DID SEND THEM YES, IT'S BEEN SENT.
WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANYTHING BACK YET.
UM, HAS EAC BEEN INVITED TO COMMENT? NO.
ES I MEAN, EAC IS AN ADVISORY BOARD TO COUNCIL.
I DON'T, THEY DON'T HAVE A, A ROLE WHERE THEY REVIEW THESE PLANS.
THEY'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO WATCH AND, AND THEY CAN REQUEST THAT THEY CAN LOOK AT THIS, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY FORMAL POLICY OR PROCEDURE WHERE THEY REVIEW, NO, THE V DOT COMMENTS WERE REGARDING THE FLYOVER, BUT NOW THEY'VE ADJUSTED THEIR PROPOSAL TO ACCOMMODATE THAT.
SO THAT I, I GUESS MAYBE VDOT WON'T HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR, OR WE DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT BDOS GONNA COME BACK.
BUT THAT COULD BE, THEY, THEY, THEY, UH, SUBMITTED A PROPOSED ALTERNATIVE AREA.
AND CAN, CAN WE BRING UP TO THE SKETCH THAT SHOWS WHERE THE ORIGINAL LOCATION WAS AND UM, AND WHERE THEY THEY WANT BECAUSE IT WILL IMPACT? YEAH, THAT'S THE, UH, OH, IS THAT, THAT THAT WOULD BE IN THAT FILE I GAVE YOU CONNIE, LIKE THE TEN EIGHT DOCUMENT.
WE, WE DID SKETCH IT OUT HERE ON THE, UH, 24
[00:25:01]
BY 36 DRAWING.THAT IS THE ORIGINAL ALIGNMENT.
OH, THE ONE FROM MR. MERCHANT.
HE GAVE YOU A FLASH DRIVE TODAY.
WILL THAT BE, UH, BRING UP DOUBLE OH ONE THERE.
CAN YOU MAKE THAT ANY BIGGER? MM-HMM.
UM, JUST TO UPDATE THE COMMISSIONERS IN 1991, THE TOWN COMMISSION ANDERSON AND ASSOCIATES TO DESIGN, UH, THE LEECH RUN PARKWAY, WHICH RAN FROM ROUTE 55 TO HAPPY CREEK ROAD AND TO ULTIMATELY TIE INTO, UH, ROUTE 6 0 6.
UH, PART OF THAT, UH, PROJECT INVOLVED THE CREATION OF A PLANNING PROFILE OR A SET OF ENGINEER DRAWINGS SHOWING THE LOCATION OF THAT PROPOSED ROAD, UM, AS WELL AS SURVEYS BY ANDERSON AND ASSOCIATES, UH, FOR PROPOSED RIGHT OF WAY TAKINGS.
UM, OBVIOUSLY THE LEE RUN PARKWAY HAS BEEN CONSTRUCTED FROM ROUTE 55 TO HENDRICK CREEK ROAD.
UH, THE ORIGINAL 1991 PLANS INCLUDED A BRIDGE FLYOVER, UH, TO GET ACROSS THE RAILROAD TRACK AND THEN RUNNING ULTIMATELY THROUGH, THROUGH WHERE YOU SEE THE RED IS LOCATED HERE.
NOW IT, WE DO HAVE THE APPLICANT HERE.
WE MAY HAVE TO ASK IN THE QUESTION.
IT APPEARS THAT THEY'VE SHIFTED THE PROPOSED LOCATION OF THE FLYOVER IN THE ULTIMATE TIE INTO 6 0 6 TO THE EAST, SOMEWHAT CORRECT THAT CROSSHATCHED AREA MM-HMM.
WHICH WAS NOT IN THE ORIGINAL 1991 PLANT, CORRECT? CORRECT.
UH, IS WHO IS SPEAKING FOR THE APPLICANT TONIGHT? I WILL.
TY LAWSON, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT, THAT YOUR INTENT IS TO SHIFT THAT? WE ARE.
WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT THERE IS, IS 91, WHICH DOESN'T SEEM THAT LONG AT
I'M THINKING IT IS 30 SOME YEARS AGO.
AND IT CONFLICTS WITH A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS.
THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR AND SO ON.
AND WHAT WE ACTUALLY, CHAS OUR ENGINEER WOULD DOING IS SETTING ASIDE SOME GROUND THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD MAKE SOMETHING REAL.
AND SO WHAT WE'VE DRAWN IS, IS A 90 FOOT RIGHT OF WAY, UM, TO MATCH UP WITH LEACH RUN PARKWAY WHERE IT, WHERE IT CROSSES OR WILL CROSS HAPPY CREEK FLY OVER THE, I GUESS IT WOULD FLY OVER HAPPY CREEK.
AND THEN ALSO THE RAILROAD LAND ON OUR PROPERTY.
REMEMBER, WE, WE APPRECIATED YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT WHAT IF EAST WEST GETS BILLED, DO WE SET ASIDE SOME LAND, UH, LOSE A LOT IF YOU WILL.
WE DID THAT IN OUR REVISED PROFFERS AND WE'RE ALSO AGREEING THAT THIS ADDITIONAL FIVE AND A HALF ACRES, IF YOU BACK UP A COUPLE OF SLIDES, WE WOULD, WE WOULD DEDICATE THAT TO THE TOWN IF AND WHEN THE, UM, THE PARKWAY IS BUILT AND ACTUALLY IT LANDS REALLY WELL AND MATCHES UP.
WE HAD THE ENGINEERS DRAW IT AND IT DOESN'T CONFLICT AS MUCH WITH THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR EITHER.
AND THIS ASSUMES THAT YOU ALL HAVE THE MONEY TO DO IT AND THEN IT'S GONNA GET BILLED.
BUT YEAH, LAUREN, YOU CAN HAVE THAT.
THE NEXT QUESTION, NBR IS NOT NOT FUNDING ANY OF THE FLYOVER, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
THANK, AND WE ALSO DID A LITTLE RESEARCH ON THAT JUST TO GIVE YOU SOME PERSPECTIVE CUZ WE, WE SAW THE, UH, THE CIP P AND IT'S EARMARKED AT 27 MILLION RIGHT OVER TIME.
JUST TO GIVE YOU A FLAVOR, UH, THE ROCKLAND ROAD FLYOVER, WHICH IS JUST OVER THE RAILROAD TRACKS AND WE JUST APPROVED THAT, ACTUALLY, ACTUALLY THE NUMBERS FOR THAT ARE A LITTLE OVER TWO-LANE ROAD.
NO INTERCHANGE ONLY CROSSES A RAILROAD.
THAT'S A LITTLE OVER 28 MILLION IN TODAY DOLLARS.
SO IF, IF WE'RE REALLY GONNA DO THIS AND YOU'RE GONNA DO A FOUR-LANE AND YOU'RE GONNA CROSS A RAILROAD, AND BY THE WAY,
[00:30:01]
LEARNED THAT THE RAILROAD REQUIRES A 23 FOOT CLEARANCE AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT THING CUZ THEY'RE DOING THOSE DOUBLE STACKED CARS NOW.UM, AND YOU'RE GONNA CROSS THE ROAD, PICK A NUMBER, UH, 28 TIMES TWO AND TODAY DOLLARS.
THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT.
BUT WE, WE HEARD YOUR COMMENTS AND WHAT WE'VE DONE IS AGREED TO SET ASIDE THE ADDITIONAL, UH, 5.5.
SO WE'RE, WE'RE AT A LITTLE OVER 18 ACRES, OR EXCUSE ME, 14 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE.
AND I'M SURE Y'ALL READ IT IN THE PROFFERS.
UH, WE WILL, IT'LL RUN WITH THE LAND.
OBVIOUSLY THE PROFFERS WILL, WHOEVER THE OWNER IS AT THE TIME WHEN YOU ALL, IF YOU DECIDE TO BUILD IT, THEY WILL DEDICATE THAT STRIP TO THE TOWN.
IN THE INTERIM, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS IT'S GONNA BE OPEN SPACE, IT'S GONNA BE WALKING TRAILS IN ADDITION TO THE SIDEWALKS.
AND WE'VE GOT A REPRESENTATIVE, UH, BALL FIELD THERE.
YOU CAN PUT SEVERAL BALL FIELDS IN THERE IF YOU WANTED TO.
IT'S REALLY QUITE, QUITE AN AMENITY FOR THIS COMMUNITY.
THEY'RE GONNA, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE THEIR OWN PARK, IF YOU WILL, WITH, WITH A LOT OF GREEN SPACE PLAYING FIELDS AND THEN, UH, UH, TRAIL SYSTEM AND NETWORK IN ADDITION TO THE, TO THE SIDEWALKS.
BUT WE HEARD YOUR COMMENTS AND SO THE IDEA IS WE'VE LOST LOTS AND, AND WE'RE PROPOSING TO DEDICATE THAT LAND, UH, WHICH MEANS BY DEFINITION NO ACQUISITION COST TO THE TOWN IN THE FUTURE.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE ON THAT? SO THAT'S WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU PUT OUT AND THIS, ARE YOU, ARE YOU FOLLOWING THIS RED LINE DESIGN? YES.
WE ASKED THE ENGINEERS TO CONNECT THE ROAD, MAKE IT REAL.
BECAUSE THE OTHERS JUST KIND OF BOOM, GO STRAIGHT THROUGH THE PROPERTY.
AND I'M THINKING A LOT'S HAPPENED SINCE 91, EVEN THOUGH, AGAIN, I DON'T THINK OF THAT AS THAT LONG AGO, BUT IT IS.
UM, AND SO WHAT WE'RE DOING IS ACTUALLY CONNECTING THE ROADS.
IT, IT ACTUALLY MAKES FOR A, IF YOU DO BUILD IT, UH, A LOGICAL INTERSECTION WITH THE EAST WEST AS WELL, WHEN IT GETS BUILT AND UM, I THINK IT MAKES, FORGET ABOUT THE MONEY FOR A MOMENT.
IT, IT MAKES MORE SENSE IN TERMS OF CONNECTABILITY.
SO IT WOULD STILL BE THE OVERPASS AT THE VILLAGE COURT, UH, THIS STREET HERE THAT WOULD SORT OF BE UNDER THE OVERPASS? NO, THE OVERPASS, THE RAILROAD, I THINK THE OVERPASS.
THIS WOULD, SO THIS WOULD CONNECT.
I THINK THAT'S ALL GROUND LEVEL.
I HOPE THAT FOR YOUR SAKE IS GROUND LEVEL CUZ THAT'S ANOTHER NUMBER.
SO IT'S, IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE CUTTING, IT'S GO AND OVER AND COME DOWN.
BUT WHAT HAPPENS TO THE, I MEAN THE WALKING TRAIL IS GOING TO GET KIND OF BETTER.
WELL IF WE DEDICATED THE, WE PUT IT IN IT'S AT THE TOWN'S DISCRETION, WE WOULD DEDICATE THAT DARKER GREEN.
JOHN WANTS TO DO HIS SPOTLIGHT THING.
UM, YOU'LL SEE THE DARK GREEN THAT WOULD BE THEN DEDICATED TO THE TOWN.
AS OPPOSED TO THE LIGHTER GREEN.
AND THEN Y'ALL WOULD PRESUMABLY USE THAT FOR THE ROAD.
I MEAN THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF WAYS TO DO THIS THING.
IT'S GONNA HAVE TO GET UP IN THE AIR, SO THERE MAY STILL BE GREEN SPACE UNDER IT AND SO ON.
NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THAT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE IF IT'S EVER BUILT, BUT WE'RE GIVING YOU THE GROUND FOR IT.
IF, IF YOU ALL WANT TO DO THAT.
AND WE UNDERSTOOD THAT WAS IMPORTANT.
SO THAT'S WHY WE MADE THESE CHANGES AND LOST THE LOTS.
THAT'S WHAT WAS BEHIND MY QUESTION ABOUT HOW WE CHECKED WITH
CUZ IF, IF THIS IS VERY GENEROUS OF YOU AND, AND THIS IS VERY ACCOMMODATING, BUT DO WE KNOW THAT IT'S THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF LAND AND CAN WE AT LEAST TRY TO FIND OUT, YOU SAID THERE WERE ENGINEERING THINGS TO, TO BE DONE IN 1991, ANDERSON, WERE ENGINEERED PLANS.
DO WE HAVE THOSE IN HOUSE HERE OR AND WE DO WE HAVE A COPY OF THAT? I MEAN YEAH, STAFF HAS A COPY.
DID VIDOT LOOK AT THAT AND MAKE A COMMENT? I DUNNO IF VIDOT PULLED THOSE PLANS WHEN THEY DID THEIR REVIEW, BUT VDOT REVIEWED THE INITIAL ONE.
I WILL PROVIDE THIS TO VIDO ALSO.
UM, BUT VIDO LIKE WE HAVE VDOT GIVES YOU YOU ROAD WIDTH, RIGHT? SO LIKE DIFFERENT TYPES OF ROADS.
THERE ARE DIFFERENT STANDARDS.
WELL, BUT MY, MY QUESTION IS DID THEY SEE THIS 1991 PLAN WAY BACK WHEN AND HAVE THAT, CAN WE FIND OUT IS WHAT IT ASKED? I CAN FIND OUT.
I CAN, I CAN REACH OUT TO VIDO.
I THINK IF GOT A MEETING WITH HIM TOMORROW MORNING Y'ALL.
AND WHAT IS THE GUY'S NAME DOWN
[00:35:01]
THERE WHO DOES, NO, THERE'S SOMEBODY ELSE.BUT ANYHOW, YEAH, AND THEY CAN FIND OUT IF THEY EVER SAW THE 91 PLANS AND IF THEY HAD ANY COMMENTS ON THEM THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE GOTTEN LOST IN TRANSMISSION.
I'LL TELL YOU CUZ WE'VE, WE'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH THIS AND ALSO SOME OTHER PROJECTS.
WHATEVER YOU'VE GOT DESIGNED FROM 91, IT'S NOT GONNA BE USABLE TODAY.
AND THEN THE OTHER THING YOU'VE GOT IS YOU'RE, YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE RAILROAD.
SO IT'S ONE THING TO DEAL WITH BDOT AND THAT'S A CHALLENGE.
YOU GOTTA DEAL WITH THE RAILROAD AND THEY HAVE THEIR RULES AND, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT WITHOUT THEIR BUREAUCRACIES AND THEY MAKE SPEED OUT LOOK LIKE A DREAM, FRANKLY.
UM, SO YOU'VE GOT SOME CLEARANCES THAT YOU'VE GOTTA DEAL WITH.
THIS THING WOULD HAVE TO BE COMPLETELY DESIGNED, BUT DEFINITELY GET THE VDOT COMMENT.
THE VDOT COMMENT WAS, THIS IS IN THE TOWN AND IT'S THE TOWN'S CALL.
BUT IF YOU WANT THAT DESIGNED TO OCCUR, YOU CAN USE THE ROCKLAND ROAD CROSSING AS AN EXAMPLE.
I THINK, UH, IT'S APPROACHING $2 MILLION IN ENGINEERING COSTS.
WHAT'S THE STATUS ON THAT? IT'S UH, IT'S GONE THROUGH THE CTB AND IT'S BEEN, UH, TENTATIVELY APPROVED LARGELY BECAUSE THE PORT IS GONNA BEAR THE BURDEN OF THE COST.
ALTHOUGH I WAS JUST ADVISED TODAY THAT THERE MAY BE SOME COMEBACK ON THAT AND THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A LITTLE EXTRA MONEY FROM OTHERS IN THE STATE.
UM, BUT THEY ARE STILL NOT AT A PLACE, I DON'T BELIEVE, WHERE THEY HAVE NORFOLK SOUTHERN'S APPROVAL.
IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A LOT OF WORK, BUT ONCE YOU GET IT, DO IT.
CUZ IF YOU WAIT A YEAR OR TWO AND THEN GO BACK, YOU'RE STARTING ALL OVER.
AND CERTAINLY SOMETHING FROM 30 PLUS YEARS AGO THAT'S, THAT'S DEFINITELY GONNA HAVE TO BE REVISITED.
BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IF THIS GENEROUS ALLOTMENT OF LAND, THEN IT'S ENOUGH LAND
I DON'T WANNA, YOU KNOW, FIND OUT WHENEVER THE TOWN GETS US MONEY TOGETHER FIVE YEARS OR 10 YEARS FROM NOW THAT TS WE NEED MORE LAND.
AND THAT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I WANNA AVOID HAPPENING.
AND, AND I'M FIGURING THAT THE FIRST STEP IS TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY EXISTING RECORD SO THAT WE CAN ENSURE THAT WE'RE DOING THIS RIGHT.
OBVIOUSLY IF THE, UH, LE RUN PARKWAY EXTENSION, LET'S CALL IT, THAT, UM, GOES THROUGH AND IT IS BUILT, UH, THE ENTRANCE, OBVIOUSLY THE LE RUN PARKWAY WILL BE A LIMITED ACCESS.
THAT UM, UH, FUTURE INTERSECTION WITH, WHAT IS THIS CALLED? ROAD A WITH ROAD A, WHICH IS THE ROAD THAT RUNS, UH, WEST TO EAST.
AND WHERE IT INTERSECTS WITH THE FUTURE LATRON PARKWAY, THAT WILL BE DONE AWAY.
IT'S PROVIDED FOUR IN THE PROFFERS.
SO WE'LL END UP WITH ONLY ONE ACCESS POINT OFF THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR TO THE SUBDIVISION.
WE, WE START OUT WITH ONE AND AS YOU'LL RECALL, THE TRAFFIC STUDY, UH, KITTLESON ASSOCIATES APPROVED AND CONFIRMED THAT WE'RE ABLE TO SATISFY THIS AND MAINTAIN A LEVEL OF SERVICE B, WHICH IS REMARKABLE.
THAT'S REALLY GOOD WITH JUST THE ONE ENTRANCE.
SO WE'LL END UP WITH ONE ENTRANCE SAME WAY.
AND ACTUALLY IT'S INTERESTING, THAT STUDY WAS AT THE HIGHER NUMBER THAT WAS AT THE 144 UNITS.
WE'VE PROFFERED TO DO FEWER UNITS.
THAT'S REGARDING THE ONE ENTRANCE ON DE SHE SHORES ROAD.
NOW, WHEN THEY, THEY DID THAT STUDY, IF I MAY ASK A QUESTION.
UH, THE, UM, THEY DID THAT STUDY IN MARCH OF 2022.
ACCORDING TO THE PAPERWORK, I HAVE A REPORT OF SEPTEMBER NINE OF 22, SO IT WOULD'VE BEEN BEFORE THAT.
SOMEWHERE I, SOMEWHERE I SAW IN THIS PILE OF DEAD TREES, WE, WE PROVIDED YOU WITH A REPORT AND IN ADDITION TO APOLOGIZE, BUT WE WANTED TO BE THOROUGH.
WE GAVE YOU THE FISCAL IMPACT ANALYSIS, WHICH IS A LOT OF PAGES.
WE ALSO GAVE YOU THE, UH, TRAFFIC STUDY, WHICH WAS DATED SEPTEMBER NINE OF 22.
AND AS I READ THAT ONE, THAT'S KITTLESON YES MA'AM.
THAT THEY HAD DONE THAT STUDY.
IN, IN IT SAYS MARCH THE 24 HOUR TUBE COUNTS WERE OBTAINED IN MARCH, 2022.
THAT'S NOW, UH, THIS IS THE CRAZY QUESTION, BUT DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF THAT WAS WHEN THE COLLEGE WAS ON SPRING BREAK? IT SAYS THE COUNTS WERE CONDUCTED ON A WEEKDAY WHEN SCHOOL
[00:40:01]
WAS IN SESSION.YEAH, WELL, PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE IN SESSION.
BUT YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED, THEY'RE, THEY, WHEN THEY FOLLOW THEIR DISCIPLINE AND THEY CAN EXPLAIN THIS BETTER, YOU, YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
YOU CAN'T DO IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
BUT NO, THEY DID IT WHEN SCHOOLS ALL, IT'S A STRESS TEST, IF YOU WILL.
WHEN ALL THE SCHOOLS ARE IN SESSION, ALL THE ACTIVITIES ARE, ARE GOING ON AND, AND THEN THEY FACTOR IN PER THE MANUAL, THE TRIPS THAT WOULD BE, IT'S THAT CLASS, OBVIOUSLY THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE IN SESSION, BUT I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YES MA'AM.
500 SOME STUDENTS IN THAT COLLEGE NORTH OF THERE IS STILL GROWING AND ONE OUT OF THREE KIDS HAS A CAR.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF GROWTH HAPPENING THERE.
THEY ACTUALLY FORECAST, UH, IN BACKGROUND AND AN INCREASE IN TRIPS WHETHER THEY'RE THERE OR NOT.
NO, YEAH, NO, YOUR, YOUR STUDIES ARE FAR AS IT GOES.
BUT I'M JUST THINKING A LARGER PICTURE OF THE URGENCY FOR THIS FLYOVER BECAUSE IN SEPTEMBER, THE SCHOOL ON PROGRESS DRIVE ADDED FOUR GRADES.
SO THAT'S, I DON'T KNOW, THREE TIMES FOUR IS, SO THAT'S 120 MORE CARS.
UH, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M THINKING IS THAT THE URGENCY OF THE FLYOVER IS, YOU KNOW, MOVING, MOVING HIGHER.
LET ME MAKE A COMMENT ON THAT CUZ I TOO HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT.
I I, I'M OBVIOUSLY FROM OUR PUBLIC HEARING THAT WE HAD, THERE'S A HUGE ENTRANCE IN THE FILE BECAUSE OF COUNTY USAGE.
NOT SO MUCH TOWN, THE TOWN, WE ONLY HAVE 40 TO 50 PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THE TOWN PART.
IT'S THE, OH, AT THE MOMENT YOU MEAN RESIDENT, YOU MEAN RESIDENCE, RIGHT.
IT'S THE COUNTY THAT HAS A HUGE INTEREST.
SO, UH, OBVIOUSLY AND FROM THE PUBLIC HEARING IT WAS, IT WAS PARAMOUNT TO THE SPEAKERS THAT THE FLYOVER, SOMETHING HAS TO OCCUR WHETHER IT'S SUPPLY OVER OR OTHER IMPROVEMENTS.
SO OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE AN ISSUE THERE.
MANY SPEAKERS SPOKE ABOUT THE, UH, DANGER THAT IF WE INCREASE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE USING THE FACILITY OR IF WE INCREASE THE NUMBER OF LOTS WE ALLOW OUT THERE THAT THE POTENTIAL FOR, UM, UM, DISASTER.
BUT YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT WITH, AS YOU JUST SAID, THE COLLEGE IS GROWING LEAPS AND BOUNDS, YET THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT CHIPPING MONEY IN TO BUILD THIS THING.
OKAY? EVERYBODY WANTS TO FLY OVER.
I MEAN, THE APPLICANT HAS GIVEN US LAND FOR IT, WHICH IS GREAT.
BUT, BUT WE STILL DON'T HAVE ANY FUNDING AND THAT IS REALLY A TOWN COUNCIL ISSUE.
BUT, BUT HERE WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S DRIVEN A LOT BY COUNTY USAGE, UH, WITH SHE SHORE SUBDIVISION WITH CHRISTENDOM COLLEGE.
SO IT, IT IS CERTAINLY NOT FAIR TO THE LANDOWNERS IN TOWN TO HAVE TO ENTIRELY FUND THE FLYOVER WHEN IT'S BENEFITS BY FAR MORE PEOPLE THAN JUST IN TOWN.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT? WELL, I TRUE STATEMENT, TRUE STATEMENT.
BUT THERE'S INDUSTRIAL PARKS THERE ON SANCHO ROAD IN TOWN THAT ARE TOTALLY STYMIED BECAUSE OF THE, BECAUSE UNDERSTAND, I UNDERSTAND AND BENEFIT AND IT WILL CERTAINLY BENEFIT THE TOWN, BUT IS THAT BENEFIT FOR THE INDUSTRIAL PART ENOUGH TO, FOR THE TOWN TO FULLY FUND THE FLYOVER? WELL, WHETHER IT WOULD DRIVE ENOUGH MONEY, I DON'T KNOW.
SO I WOULD THINK THAT'S WHAT COUNCIL HAS TO ADDRESS.
AND I THINK OUR JOB IS, DOES THE RELOCATION OF THIS ROAD, IS IT, YOU KNOW, CAUSE WE SPENT MONEY DESIGNING IT IN A DIFFERENT LOCATION AND AS THE APPLICANT SAID, 1991 IS A LONG TIME AGO.
UM, AND, AND WE, WE DID CHANGE SOME OF THE PARAMETERS ON THE LEE RUN PARKWAY WHEN WE DID ENDED IT AT HACKER CREEK ROAD.
OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, THAT'S GONNA BE AN ADDITIONAL COST OF BUILDING THAT UP TO GO OVER THE RAILROAD TRACK.
BUT IF, IF THE FLYOVER IS THE SOLUTION, OF COURSE WE HAVEN'T EVEN TALKED ABOUT THE EASTWEST CONNECTOR OR THE INTERCHANGE AT 66, WHICH APPARENTLY A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE OPPOSED TO.
BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY QUESTION THAT,
[00:45:02]
THAT WE NEED TO FLY OVER TO ALLEVIATE A PROBLEM OF TRAINS BLOCKING THE TRACK.CERTAINLY IS THAT, BUT SHOULD WE DENY THIS APPLICATION BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GONNA BUILD THE FLYOVER OR DO WE FORWARD IT TO COUNCIL WITH SAYING THIS, YOU KNOW, HERE IS WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE FLYOVER, IT IS NOW TIME, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN KICKING THIS CAN DOWN THE ROAD.
NO, I I THAT AND THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT WE AS A PLANNING COMMISSION CAN'T ANSWER, BUT WE CAN PLAN FOR IT.
THE ONLY PROBLEM I GOT IS WHAT LITTLE BIT OF ENGINEERING WE DID HAVE IN THE PREVIOUS ROUTE WE THROW AWAY NOW AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO IMPACT ADJACENT PROPERTY TO GET THE RIGHT OF WAY.
YOU WERE CONCERNED, DO WE HAVE ENOUGH LAND? YEAH, WE DON'T RIGHT NOW.
WE WOULD HAVE TO ACQUIRE ADDITIONAL LAND THAT IS NOT CONTROLLED BY NVR OR THE SAYER STATE OR SAYER PROPERTY.
SO, SO COUNCIL AUTHORIZED THE ORIGINAL LOCATION.
I WOULD THINK IT'S THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO SAY YAY OR NAY.
OUR JOB IS TO SAY, DOES THIS STILL MEET OUR PLANNING, UH, UH, REQUIREMENTS.
AND PERSONALLY I DON'T SEE TOO MUCH WRONG WITH MOVING IT OVER OTHER THAN I WOULD LIKE TO SEE TWO POINTS OF ACCESS TO THE SUBDIVISION, UH, OFF THE EAST WEST CONNECTOR.
AND, UH, BUT AGAIN, WE'VE KICKED THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD ENOUGH.
UH, WE HAVE THIS PROPERTY BEING ZONED.
WE HAVE THE ADJACENT 150 ACRES, WHICH IS WHAT, 320 LOTS, UH, THAT, THAT WE'VE ALREADY APPROVED, HAS NEVER BEEN BUILT.
SO, UH, BETWEEN THE 150 ACRES AND THIS, WE'VE BASICALLY ALMOST MET OUR LOCK QUOTA FOR, FOR 20 YEARS.
AND THAT'S NOT HIM COUNTING, UH, THE MARSHALL PLANNING AREA 15, WHICH IS 818 MARKET CREDIT UNITS.
SO, UH, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS THE LAST FRONTIER AS FAR AS FRONT ROYAL IS CONCERNED.
AND, AND I'M THANKFUL THAT APPLICANT HAS, HAS GIVEN US LAND.
BUT IS IS THAT ENOUGH? AND I THINK THAT'S A QUESTION COUNCIL HAS TO ANSWER.
WELL, I THINK THAT I, I MEAN I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IF, I MEAN TOWN HASN'T COMMENTED, YOU SAID THE COUNTY HASN'T COMMENTED.
WELL, RIGHT, WE, WE, BUT WE'LL HAVE THOSE COMMENTS BY A PUBLIC HEARING PERHAPS WE GAVE THEM A DEADLINE AND I BELIEVE IT'S PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC HEARING.
SO SHOULD WE POSTPONE A PUBLIC HEARING OR UNTIL WE GET THAT DATA? I MEAN, I'VE REQUEST, I'VE REQUESTED COMMENTS, I'VE GIVEN THEM A TIMEFRAME.
IF WE GET THOSE COMMENTS THE DAY BEFORE, UH, YOU'LL HAVE THEM.
UM, BECAUSE I CAN'T, AND PERSONALLY I'M REALLY INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT THE PUBLIC HAS TO SAY ABOUT THIS.
WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS GO TO PUBLIC HEARING AND, AND SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY POST ON ACTION ON, ON THE APPLICANT UNTIL WE GET THE REST OF THE INFORMATION.
BUT I REALLY THINK WE HAVE TO CRAFT MM-HMM.
UH, IF THEY DEEM THAT PUTTING THE SUBDIVISION IN, UH, DOESN'T OVERSTRESS THE CURRENT 6 0 6 AND EVERYTHING IS FINE, UH, IF THEY WANT TO, YOU KNOW, GO WITH THAT, THEN, THEN THAT'S UP TO THEM.
UH, I I THINK SOMEHOW WE HAVE GOT TO, UH, POSSIBLY WORK WITH THE COUNTY TO, IN OUR TRANSPORTATION PLAN AND GET SOME REAL NUMBERS FOR THESE IMPROVEMENTS, UH, BEFORE WE CAN, YOU KNOW, REALLY ASSUAGE THE, UM, THE PUBLIC AS TO THEIR CONCERNS REGARDING RIGHT.
UM, YOU KNOW, THIS, THIS PARTICULAR AREA OUT THERE AND THE PUBLIC HAS, I MEAN, THEY, THEY HAVE EXPRESSED THEIR CONCERNS, BUT THEY HAVE REALLY, THIS DOCUMENT WAS NOT DONE BY AMATEURS.
NO COMPANY, NO, NO PROBLEM WITH KITTLESON STATE.
THESE CALCULATIONS ARE SAYING THAT THIS DOES NOT OVERBURDEN THAT INTERSECTION.
BUT PERSONALLY I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE LAUNCH SIZES.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE LAYOUT, UH, OTHER THAN WE GOTTA SOLVE THE TRANSPORTATION ISSUES.
AND, UM, MY CRYSTAL BALL DOES NOT LOOKS OFF OF MURKY AT THIS POINT WHEN I LOOK AT IT TO SEE AND TELL ME HOW THE STAFF ARE WORKING TOGETHER TO START, REALLY START THE CONVERSATION OF HOW DO WE ADDRESS THIS? BECAUSE THIS SHOULDN'T JUST BE ON THE TOWN.
SHOULD, SHOULD WE BE TALKING TO THEM MORE? WE AS THE PLANNING COMMISSION OR ARE YOU TALKING TO THEM? AND SO WHEN, UM, I'VE SPOKEN WITH COUNTY STAFF IN REGARDS TO THESE APPLICATIONS AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SETTING UP A MEETING IN THE NEAR FUTURE TO DISCUSS, HOW DO WE START LOOKING AT FUNDING OPPORTUNITIES? UM,
[00:50:01]
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, TOWN COUNCIL NEEDS TO KNOW HOW IT TAKES THE FEELING IS ABSOLUTELY.AND, AND WHEN WE TAKE THIS TO COUNCIL, I THINK WHEN WE HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING, THEY'RE GOING TO GET A TASTE OF WHAT IS GOING ON OUT THERE.
PUBLIC HEARING OF TOWN COUNSELING, MEETING OUR, OUR PUBLIC HEARING.
CAUSE THEY DON'T ACTUALLY WATCH OUR PUBLIC HEARING.
AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, ONCE THE COMP PLAN IS PUSHED THROUGH AND THEY HAVE, I BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE GONNA COME AND SPEAK TO THEM ABOUT THE
SO, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, THERE ARE MULTIPLE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO COME AND SPEAK TO COUNSEL ABOUT THEIR CONCERNS HERE.
NOW ALSO ON THE EARLIER PROFFERS, THERE WAS A STATEMENT ABOUT THE WATER AND SEWER.
THEY'RE PROVIDING COMPLETE ONSITE WATER AND SEWER, NOT THEY, THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THEY NEED TO BE IN CONFORMANCE WITH CHAPTER 1 34, 1 48.
AND I BELIEVE THEY ADDRESSED THAT IN THEIR, THEY DID AMENDED PROFFER STATEMENT.
I, IF YOU'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH, I MEAN, WE CAN ALWAYS PUT A CONDITION THAT IT'S, WELL, I DON'T HAVE THE PROFFERS BEEN VET AND, AND ARE APPROVED STAFF HAS READ THEM.
THE ATTORNEY HAS NOT RESPONDED YET.
WELL HOPEFULLY WE'LL GET THAT BACK FROM PUBLIC HEARING.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ANY STATE, UH, COMMISSIONER HAND THAT WAS ADDRESSED IN, UH, 2.3, 2.3 OF THE PROPER ON THE WATER AND SEWER THEY ADDRESSED, THEY AMENDED THAT LINE ITEM.
IF YOU LOOK AT THAT, THAT'S INCLUDED IN THAT PROFFERS NOW.
YEAH, IF YOU LOOK AT 2.3, PAGE TWO, UM, I HAVE JUST A, A FACTUAL QUESTION.
UM, THE, THE HETA PROFFERS WERE ABOUT $4,000 PER HOUSEHOLD FOR THE SCHOOLS, BUT THE SADDLE CRESTS ARE ABOUT $3,000 PER SCHOOL.
OUR KIDS NORTH OF THE RAILROAD CHECKS CHEAPER THAN MOST? NO, NO.
I MEAN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE LOOKING AT NUMBER, IT'S BASED ON A NUMBER OF STUDENTS THAT ARE PROJECTED TO BE PUT INTO THE SCHOOL SYSTEM.
SO WITH HETA, THERE'S A PROJECTED TOTAL OF LIKE 81 STUDENTS, 37 OF THOSE WOULD'VE GONE INTO THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
AND PER THE SCHOOL BOARDS, UH, THERE'S AN EDUCATIONAL CAPACITY, THERE'S MAXIMUM CAPACITY OR THE EDUCATIONAL CAPACITY.
THERE WERE EIGHT STUDENTS OVER, SO THAT'S WHY THEY PROFFERED THE AMOUNTS THAT THEY DID TO COUNT FOR THAT.
I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS THE SAME ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
THIS IS THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TRACKS.
I MEAN, I CAN GO BACK THROUGH THE CALCULATION WILL BE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
MR. CHAIRMAN HAS TO GIVE YOU PERMISSION.
I CAN'T GIVE YOUR PERMISSION TO SPEAK.
MR. CHAIRMAN, CAN YOU SPEAK? WE USE THE SAME NUMBERS.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS WE APPLY TO CREDIT FROM THE BUY RIGHT NUMBER OF LOTS THAT WE COULD BUILD.
AND THEN THE OTHER IS, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY THE DETAILS OF THE OTHER ONE, BUT I, I BELIEVE THEY HAVE A HOUSING TYPE THAT, THAT HAS A HIGHER STUDENT GENERATION RATE THEY DID THAN THE SINGLES.
BUT WE, WE FOLLOWED TERRAN WROTE A GRAY LITTLE REPORT AND THIS IS WHAT YOU OUGHT TO DO.
UM, WE JUST WENT AHEAD AND LET'S MAKE IT EASY.
AND WE TOOK A CREDIT FOR WHAT WE COULD BUILD BY RIGHT.
WHICH ARE NOT SUBJECT TO PROFFERS.
AND BY THE, THE WAY ALL THIS LAND, WE DIDN'T TAKE ANY CREDIT FOR THAT.
IT, IT IS VALUABLE AND WE'RE GIVING IT, BUT IT'S NOT FACTORED IN THERE.
JUST SO YOU KNOW, THANK I'M NOT MOST VALUABLE LAND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
SO ON THE 18TH WE WOULD HOLD, GO AHEAD WITH PUBLIC HEARING WITH THE CAVEAT THAT IF WE DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION FROM REVIEWS, IT COULD POSSIBLY, UH, DELAY, JUST LEAVE IT OPEN, DELAY THE, UH, UH, PROCESS AT THAT POINT.
BUT, UH, BUT I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING WHAT THE PUBLIC HAS TO SAY AND HOW WE CAN, UH, GENERATE SOME, SOME POSITIVE, UH, FEEDBACK WITH THE COUNTY AND THE TOWN REGARDING, UH, YOU KNOW, THIS PARTICULAR AREA.
I THINK IT'S THE TIME HAS COME TO DEVELOP THIS.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS ON THE 18TH? IS THIS AN OFFICIAL PHOTO?
NOW THE FUN PART OF THE EVENING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE COMPREHENSIVE ONE.
I WOULD POINT OUT A COUPLE THINGS HERE.
ONE, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR A YEAR NOW WE'VE HAD VARIOUS PUBLIC, UH, INPUT SESSIONS.
[00:55:01]
PUBLIC HEARINGS.WE'VE HAD, UH, MULTIPLE, UH, OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE PUBLIC TO COMMENT.
UH, AT OUR LAST, UH, MEETING REGARDING THIS, WE DID HOLD THE PLANNING COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING, WHICH WE TABLED ANY ACTION TO A FUTURE MEETING WITH THE CAVEAT FROM OUR ATTORNEY THAT ANY SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO THE SUBMITTED COMPREHENSIVE PLAN WOULD REQUIRE RE-ADVERTISING FOR ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING.
SO TONIGHT, UM, IT IS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO DISCUSS OUR VIEWS ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
I THINK WE'VE ALL HAD TIME TO REVIEW IT.
NOW, UH, WE DO HAVE VARIOUS INDIVIDUALS IN ATTENDANCE, UM, THAT, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, WE COULD ASK QUESTIONS OF, UM, REGARDING THIS.
HOWEVER, AGAIN, TONIGHT IS NOT A PUBLIC HEARING.
UM, SO IF, UH, IF ANY OF YOU WISH TO OR HA HAS A SPEAKER YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM, PLEASE UH, UH, INDICATE THAT.
BUT, UH, TONIGHT, UM, I WANT TO LOOK AT WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
WELL, MR. CHAIRMAN, YOU HAD CONCERNS ABOUT THE LAND USE MAP? YES.
AND THOSE ARE, I THINK, WOULD YOU, WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO START, IF I START MS. POTTER, WOULD YOU BE SO KIND TO BRING US UP A MAP, WHILE SHE'S LOOKING FOR THAT, I WILL BRIEFLY STATE MY CONCERNS.
UM, OBVIOUSLY THE, THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE REGARDING THE FRONT ROYAL COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT THE, THE FUTURE OF FRONT ROYAL WAS.
THEY WANT TO KEEP US THE SMALL TOWN CHARM.
WE WANT TO RAISE OUR KIDS HERE.
WE, WE, WE WANT THIS LIFELONG.
UM, THE EDITED, SEE THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP 12 30 22.
UM, HONEY, CAN YOU ZOOM IN ON THAT? I CAN'T.
YEAH, WE, WE, WE, WE, WE MAY HAVE TO ZOOM IN ON DIFFERENT PARTS ONCE WE GET THE TOP.
WHERE DO YOU WANT IT NOW? UH, RIGHT THERE IS FINE.
RIGHT THERE IS FINE FOR RIGHT NOW.
UM, AND ANYWAY, UM, AND, AND OUT OF THAT, THE CONSULTANT AND STAFF CAME UP WITH THE, SEE THE MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE MM-HMM.
UM, WOULD YOU BE SO KIND AS TO EXPLAIN THAT STAFF, WHAT, WHAT IS MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE? I MIGHT ADD THAT IN 2018 WHEN WE HAD LOOKED AT THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP AND CREATED IT IN THE 2018 VERSION, WE HAD IN FACT CREATED TWO MIXED USE, UH, AREAS.
I MEAN, ONE WE CALLED MIXED USE RESIDENTIAL, WHICH WAS TO SUPPORT OUR P N D DISTRICT, WHICH IS THE PLANNED NEIGHBORHOOD, WHICH WAS PRIMARILY RESIDENTIAL WITH A SMALL POCKETS OF COMMERCIAL EITHER NEIGHBORHOOD STORES OR AREA OF, OF OFFICES WITH, UH, WITH, WITH, UH, COMMERCIAL, UM, BUSINESSES, MEETING THE NEEDS OF THE LOCAL COMMUNITY, LIKE A PIZZA SHOP OR, OR WHATEVER.
OUR OTHER MIXED USE AREA WAS A COMMERCIAL, WHICH WAS OUR M C D DISTRICT CURRENTLY, UH, OR LEMME BACK UP.
THE P AND D DISTRICT IS CURRENTLY WHAT HETA MM-HMM.
SO THEY HAVE A MIXTURE OF USES ALLOWED, BUT IT'S PRIMARILY RESIDENTIAL.
WHEREAS THE C D, THE ROYAL PHOENIX PROJECT, THE OLD AVTEX WAS IN FACT ZONED AND IS ZONED, UH, THE M C D FOR THE MIXED CAMPUS DISTRICT, WHICH WAS PRIMARILY COMMERCIAL OR LIGHT MANUFACTURING WITH A RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT.
SO BACK IN 2018, WE HAD THAT MIXED USE AND TWO DESIGNATIONS.
NOW WE HAVE A, UM, LET ME SEE IF I CAN READ THAT DEFINITION.
[01:00:01]
AGAIN, SO COULD YOU EXPLAIN WHERE WE'RE AT WITH THIS MIXED USE? SO THE MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE AREA AT, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL REMEMBER, BUT THE VERY FIRST ITERATION OF THIS FUTURE LAND USE MAP HAD A HIGH DENSITY MIXED USE, A MEDIAN DENSITY MIXED USE.AT THE REQUEST OF COUNSEL AND FRIDA, THE HIGH DENSITY MIXED USE CATEGORY WAS REMOVED.
UM, THE MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE IS JUST SUPPOSED TO BE A VERY FLEXIBLE TYPE OF USE.
THIS IS NOT, LIKE, REMEMBER THIS IS A LAND USE, THIS IS NOT THE ZONING MAP RIGHT NOW.
UM, SO THESE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A MIXTURE OF USES HORIZONTALLY, VERTICALLY, OR YOU CAN HAVE TWO TYPES OF USES ON THE, UM, THAT ARE CLOSE TO EACH OTHER IN THE SAME BUILDING.
UM, TYPICALLY THESE ARE COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL MIXTURES, BUT USE JUST MEANS MIXTURE OF ANY TWO TYPES OF USES.
IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO MEAN RESIDENTIAL, IT CAN BE COMMERCIAL AND LIKE SOME TYPE OF VERY LIGHT INDUSTRIAL OR COMMERCIAL AND, YOU KNOW, OFFICE SPACE.
YOU CAN HAVE RETAIL AND YOU CAN HAVE OFFICES.
THESE CATEGORIES HAVE NOT BEEN FLUSHED OUT IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE YET.
THESE ARE VERY, THESE ARE INTENDED TO BE GENERAL BIRD'S EYE VIEW CATEGORIES.
AND, AND THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS FUTURE LAND USE MAP IS TO BUILD IN THAT FLEXIBILITY THAT WE NEED SO THAT WE CAN ACCOMMODATE CHANGES, ECONOMIC CHANGES, UM, JUST, AND JUST PROVIDE US AN AVENUE TO, TO KIND OF GROW.
BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, JUST, UM, I I JUST, SORRY, I JUST LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT.
BUT IT, IT'S TO PROVIDE FLEXIBILITY.
THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS.
SO THE, THE BIG BOX THAT WOULD BE COULD BE A P AND D IN OTHER WORDS.
WELL, SO P AND D IS A SPECIFIC ZONE IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE AND THAT BRAND NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT.
THE REASON WHY ONLY ONE PARCEL IN TOWN HAS ZONED THAT RIGHT NOW IS BECAUSE IT ALSO HAS A 20 ACRE MINIMUM WRITTEN INTO THAT REQUIREMENTS.
I CAN'T JUST, YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE LIKE A SINGLE, YOU KNOW, UH, PARCEL OR HOMEOWNER COME IN AND SAY, HEY, I WANNA REZONE A P AND D.
BUT WE HAVE VERY FEW LARGE LOTS HERE IN TOWN.
AND IF YOU RECALL AT THE NOVEMBER MEETING, IF YOU REMEMBER THE MINUTES THAT YOU GUYS APPROVED AT THE LAST MEETING, THE PLANNING COMMISSION REQUESTED THAT THE MARSHALL PLANNING AREA BE CHANGED TO MIXED USE.
BUT IT WAS INTENDED MIXED USE RESIDENT, PRIMARILY RESIDENTIAL.
THE, THE THING THAT MAKES THE MARSHALL PLANNING AREA UNIQUE IS THAT WE HAVE A, UH, FUTURE LAND USE PLAN SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TO THE STATE REGARDING THE VOLUNTARY SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT, WHICH, UM, WAS NOT INCLUDED IN IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR WHATEVER REASON.
UM, AND THAT INDICATED, AND, AND THAT IS BASICALLY WHAT WE ARE OBLIGATED TO FOLLOW, TO FOLLOW THE, THE VOLUNTARY SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT.
AND I DON'T THINK THIS MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE HONORS THAT THIS CHANGE WAS SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION AT THAT MEETING.
SUBMITTED THAT LETTER, BUT I HAD INDICATED THAT THIS WOULD BE MIXED USE RESIDENTIAL VERSUS A MIXED USE COMMERCIAL.
I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO CREATE TWO ZONES.
SO, UM, I'M JUST TRYING TO GO OFF THE MEMORY OF THE VIDEO.
BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THE MIXED USE FOR COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS ALONG ROYAL AVENUE IS THE SAME MIXED USE WE SHOULD HAVE FOR MARSHALL AREA 15TH.
THIS IS WHERE WE'RE SAYING THAT THERE'S FLEXIBILITY BUILT IN AND THEN THE ACTUAL, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S PERMITTED BY RIGHT.
AND BY SPECIAL USE PERMIT WILL BE FLUSHED OUT IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO YOU CAN HAVE A MIXED USE, LIKE IN THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR, YOU CAN HAVE A MIXED USE THAT LOOKS LIKE OUR HISTORIC DOWNTOWN.
BUT IN THE MARSHALL PLANNING DISTRICT, THAT MIXED USE MAY LOOK LIKE OFFICE SPACE OR A, YOU KNOW, MIXED WITH LIKE A, A HOTEL OR GROCERY STORE.
WE HAVEN'T FLUSHED THAT OUT YET.
AND WHEN YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT MIXED USE, WHEN WE GET TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE, SO WHEN YOU'VE GOT THIS NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL, THIS PERMITS OR THIS TALKS ABOUT HAVING SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED ATTACHED, YOU KNOW, TWO FAMILY ATTACHED MULTI-FAMILY HOMES.
THIS GIVES YOU A RESIDENTIAL MIXED USE, A MIX OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES.
[01:05:02]
WE COULD IN THEORY, IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, PUT BY SPECIAL USE PERMITS THAT YOU COULD HAVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD STORES.WE HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL DESIGNATION HERE THAT CAN BE PUT ON THE MAP IN OTHER AREAS, BUT LIKE, WE AREN'T GONNA MAKE CHANGES BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN A PUBLIC DOCUMENT WITHOUT THIS BOARD COMING TO A CONSENSUS AND MAKING THESE DECISIONS IN A PUBLIC FORUM.
SO IF YOU WANT MAP CHANGES, THIS IS THE PLACE WE NEED TO DISCUSS THEM.
DO YOU FOLLOW WHAT ARE, ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH HER EXPLANATION THAT IT IT CAN
SO WHAT DO YOU WANT? I WOULD RATHER CREATE TWO MIXED USE AREAS IN, IN THE MARSHALL ONE, PRIMARILY RESIDENTIAL.
ACTUALLY THE MARSHALL PLANNING AREA, UH, WE HAD DONE IN 2018, WE HAD CREATED THE MIXED USE.
WHICH WAS GOING TO BE TO, BUT PART OF THAT, THAT DESCRIPTION IN OUR MARSHALL AREA 15 WAS ALLEGIANCE TO THE F FR L P FUTURE LAND USE MAP AS PART OF THE VOLUNTARY SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT.
AND THERE IS THE OPTION THAT WE CAN SAY FOR THE CHAPTER, WHAT IS IT, PLANNING AREA 50.
WELL, I'M ALSO SAYING THAT WE CAN GO TO THAT CHAPTER AND WE CAN JUST REFERENCE THE VFA FOR NOW.
THEN WHY DIDN'T WE, BEFORE I'M THROWING IT OUT, IS AN OPTION NOW BECAUSE, SO DO YOU NEED A MOTION TO MAKE AN AMENDMENT TO THAT? I NEED YOU ORDER THE WAY THIS TO, THE WAY THIS NEEDS TO WORK IS THAT THIS BODY NEEDS TO SAY ON THIS PAGE, THESE ARE THE CHANGES WE WANT MADE.
AND THAT WAY WE GIVE THAT TO YOU OR LAUREN, YOU'RE SAYING IT IN A PUBLIC FORUM.
AND TWO, TAKE DOWN YOUR WORDING IF YOU, BECAUSE I THINK LAUREN REALLY, WE GOTTA GET THIS DOWN TODAY.
SO IF YOU WANT WORDS, I'LL TAKE DICTATION FROM YOU SO THAT LAUREN CAN HAVE IT.
UH, I MEAN IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANNA SAY, I CAN WRITE IT DOWN RIGHT NOW.
WELL, WELL SHE'S PRESENTING A, AN OPTION THAT I REALLY HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THAT JUST ADDING NOW JU JUST ADDING THE, THAT IT MUST COMPLY WITH THE VSA.
WE CAN JUST, THAT CAN BE THE, THE MARSHALL PLANNING AREA CHAPTER IS JUST COMPLIANCE WITH THE VSA.
MOVING ON TO THE NEXT QUESTION I HAVE.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'D LIKE? WHAT'S THAT? IS THAT WHAT THIS BODY WOULD LIKE? I WOULD, I'M THINKING THERE NEEDS TO BE, LET'S, LET'S TALK ABOUT ALL OF EVERYTHING AND THEN WE'LL SEE HOW TO BEST ARRIVE AT A SOLUTION TO, TO DOING THE FINAL EDIT.
CAUSE I WANT ONE FINAL EDIT AND BE DONE WITH IT.
UM, PART OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND, AND FROM LISTENING TO THE PEOPLE, OBVIOUSLY THERE HAS TO BE A BALANCE BETWEEN RESIDENTIAL AND COMMERCIAL.
NOW COMMERCIAL ITEMS ARE NOT PART OF THE MIX.
THE MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE, I DON'T THINK, OTHER THAN THEY'RE EXCLUDED SMALL, BUT AS FAR AS LIKE A HOTEL OR WE HAVEN'T EXCLUDED THAT IN THIS CATEGORY.
SO WHY ARE YOU SAYING IF YOU DIDN'T INCLUDED IT'S OR EXCLUDED AS PART OF IT THAT GETS, THAT'S, THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
YOUR HONOR, ON PAGE 1 37, WHEN WE DISCUSSED IT, IT SAYS, SO IN THE COMMERCIAL SECTION, WE ACTUALLY CALLED OUT COMMERCIAL USES.
WE DID NOT DO THAT IN THE ROYAL AND WE HAVE CONVERTED ALL OF OUR COMMERCIAL PROPERTY ALONG ROYAL AVENUE, COMMERCE AVENUE, SOUTH STREET TO MIXED USE.
WELL, ONE, SO WHERE ARE WE GONNA PUT HOTELS? OKAY, SO WHERE ARE WE GONNA PUT HOTELS? WE CAN PUT THEM THERE.
THEY CAN WORK IN THE MIXED USE DISTRICT.
WHEN WE, THIS IS WHY, HOLD ON, GIVE ME A SECOND.
THIS IS WHY I INCLUDED THE SURVEY RESULTS.
THEY WANTED, UM, TO CREATE MORE OF WHAT WE LOVE AND THAT'S THE MIXED USE DOWNTOWN.
AND PEOPLE WANT ATTRACTIVE ENTRANCE CORRIDORS.
PEOPLE DON'T LIKE COMING OVER THE BRIDGES AND SEEING, YOU KNOW, THE, THE VAPE SHOPS OR THE POPEYES.
I GET, WE GET COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE NUMBER OF GAS STATIONS AND CAR DEALERSHIPS THAT WE HAVE HERE THAT ARE NOT ATTRACTIVE TO LOOK AT.
SO WHAT WE DO IS, YES, THOSE ABSOLUTELY HAVE THEIR PLACE.
THEY ARE IMPORTANT TO OUR LOCAL ECONOMY BY PUTTING THE MIXED USE DESIGNATION THERE.
WE ARE ONE ENCOURAGING INFILL REDEVELOPMENT OF THESE AREAS.
AND WE HAVE CREATED A FLEXIBLE CATEGORY THAT WILL STILL ALLOW THE COMMERCIAL USES THAT ARE CURRENTLY THERE.
SO WE'RE NOT SAYING WE'RE EXCLUDING THE HOTELS HERE.
AND MAYBE WHAT MAY GET US TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE IS MAYBE NOT SO MUCH EDITING THE MAP, BUT
[01:10:01]
EDITING THESE FEATURE LAND, USE THESE CATEGORY DESCRIPTIONS.SO IF WE DO THAT, THEN WE, THEN WE DON'T NEED COMMERCIAL LAND AT ALL THEN, IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
WHAT I'M SAYING HERE IS, I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE IN THESE ENTRANCE CORRIDORS FOR PLANNING COMMISSION ALSO HAS ADDITIONAL PURVIEW HERE TO LOOK AT A MIXTURE OF USES TO LOOK AT VERTICAL USE OUT IN THOSE AREAS.
THAT IS, THERE'S NO REASON TO PUT, UM, THE, THE RESIDENTIAL USES OUT THERE.
UM, THAT CAN STILL GO OFFICE SPACE, THAT CAN STILL BE HOTELS LIKE THAT LAND IS LIMITED MORE SO THAN I THINK THAT THESE ENTRANCE CORRIDORS ARE.
SO IF A, IF A, IF HYATT REGION R REGENCY HOTEL LOOKS AT OUR COMPLAINT, THEY WOULD SAY RIGHT NOW, WELL THEY DON'T WANT A HOTEL IN THEIR TOWN.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY WOULD THINK THAT.
WELL, IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR DEFINITION, I WOULD EDIT THIS.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED TO EDIT THIS PER SE.
I THINK THAT THAT THIS IS WHERE YOU MAY WANNA MAKE, IF YOU WANT THIS TO BE MORE SPECIFIC, WE CAN, AND MAYBE THIS CATEGORY, THIS COMMERCIAL CATEGORY NEEDS TO BE LESS SPECIFIC.
BUT, BUT IF WE CHANGE MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE TO HAVE HOTELS, THEN MARSHALL PLANNING AREA COULD HAVE HOTELS.
THEY COULD, YOU COULD HAVE A WHOLE SHOPPING CENTER THERE.
YOU COULD HAVE A WHOLE SECOND DOWNTOWN THERE IF THE SKY'S THE LIMIT.
IS THAT WHAT WE WANT THAT, IS THAT IN THE ACCORDANCE WITH THE VSA? NO, IT'S NOT, NOT WRITTEN.
HOW BINDING IS THIS VSA? CAN I ASK A QUESTION? VSA CAN BE CHANGED.
UH, THE TOWN AND COUNTY WOULD HAVE TO AGREE TO IT.
AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO A THREE TIMES PM AND THE APPLICANT IS HERE.
HE, OR SORRY, THE, THE LANDOWNERS HERE AND HE MAY BE ABLE TO BETTER EXPLAIN THE VSA.
IT MAY BE IN A DOCUMENT THAT WAS HANDED OUT TO US THAT WE JUST GOT AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS MEETING.
SO I HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW IT.
BUT IS THE, WHAT DOES THE VSA ACTUALLY SAY? BECAUSE THAT SEEMS TO BE THE PROBLEM.
THAT'S THE VERY, IT DOESN'T SEEM WELL, OKAY.
I MEAN UNTIL I YOU HAVEN'T READ IT OBVIOUSLY, RIGHT? THE BSA.
SO MAYBE WE NEED TO GET YOU PROBABLY MR. WELLS HAS VOLUNTARY SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT THAT OKAY.
CAN CAN WE JUST GET A QUICK EXECUTIVE SUMMARY IN A COUPLE SENTENCES? NO, UM, IT'S A VERY SUBSTANTIAL DOCUMENT.
I THINK THAT, I THINK IT'S A MIXTURE OF OPEN SPACE AND I BELIEVE IT'S MOSTLY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, IF I'M REMEMBERING CORRECTLY.
AND I, I THINK THAT THERE'S A CERTAIN NUMBER OF UNITS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
AND THEN HE PROFFERED THE EASTWEST CONNECTOR MM-HMM.
VSA IT IS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THAT IT'S GONNA REQUIRE EFFORT ON THE, ON BEHALF OF THE TOWN AND THE COUNTY.
BUT THAT WILL, THAT EFFORT WOULD NOT COME UNTIL WHEN.
AND DOES IT NEED, DOES THAT EFFORT NEED TO GO INTO THIS DOCUMENT? BASIC, I'M TRYING TO SPEAK CAREFULLY HERE.
UM, VERY POOR COPY, BUT THAT'S WHAT WAS IN THE PREVIOUS WORK WE HAD DONE.
SO THAT SHOWS THE LAND THAT SHOW DIFFERENT LEVELS OF RESIDENTIAL WITH A AREA OF WHITE COMMERCIAL.
AND MR. CHE IS WHAT'S IN THE, THAT'S WHAT'S INCLUDED IN THE VSA? YEAH.
YEAH, THAT IS VERY QUICK COPY.
SO, SO WHAT I'M HEARING, WE, WE HAVE TWO HOPS AND WE EITHER CHANGE THE MAP OR CHANGE THE DESCRIPTION.
I'M THINKING THAT YOUR HEARTBURN IS MORE SO WITH THE DESCRIPTION.
WELL, MY HEARTBURN IS WITH THE MAP.
BECAUSE AGAIN, COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, IF, IF IF WE, IF WE, WE INCLUDE EVERYTHING THAT'S CURRENTLY LISTED IN THE COMMERCIAL DESCRIPTION MM-HMM.
WHY DO WE EVEN NEED A COMMERCIAL ZONE? IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT, THAT THE MIXED USE COVERS EVERYTHING, I'M IN FAVOR OF CONDENSING THE ZONES DOWN.
UM, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S GONNA BE WIDELY ACCEPTED.
SO I STILL THINK THAT THAT STRICTLY COMMERCIAL HAS ITS PLACE.
THE FEEDBACK THAT WE RECEIVED IS THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WANT TO SEE OUR ENTRANCE CORRIDORS REDEVELOPED.
THEY WANT THEM TO BE MORE ATTRACTIVE.
AND THIS IS THE MECHANISM TO GET US THERE.
SO BY CALLING AT MIXED USE, UH, RESIDENTIAL, THAT'S GOING TO CLEAN UP.
IT'S NOT MIXED USE RESIDENTIAL, IT'S JUST MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE.
[01:15:02]
DENSITY.ST WHEN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT PLANNING THEORY, WHEN YOU WANT TO INCREASE WALKABILITY AND YOU WANT TO LIKE DOWNTOWN, DOWNTOWN IS MIXED USE.
UM, IF YOU WANNA CREATE MORE OF THAT AESTHETIC ONE, WE LOOK AT IMPLEMENTING FORM-BASED CODE.
WHEN WE GET TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND DIVISION ORDINANCE, WE START LOOKING, UM, REVISING OUR SETBACKS.
UM, IN THE ENTRANCE CORRIDOR, WE LOOK AT THE MATERIALS AND YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE AESTHETIC CHOICES THAT WE WANNA SEE IN TOWN.
AND MIXED USE TENDS TO PROMOTE WALKABILITY AND, UM, IT'S ATTRACTIVE TO DEVELOPERS ESSENTIALLY.
NO, I, I I, I, I DON'T SEE ANY PROBLEM WITH MIXED USE.
WELL LET'S, LET'S LOOK WHERE WE HAVE ANOTHER MIXED USE AREA THEN.
UH, EAST OF 6 0 6, YOU WERE TALKING EARLIER ABOUT THE, UM, YOU KNOW, IF YOU CAN PUT, PUT THE HIGHLIGHT ON IT.
JOHN WILL PUT THE OLD STICKER ON IT.
THE COMMERCIAL YOU HAD TALKED ABOUT THE FLYOVER, WHAT'S NEEDED FOR COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT MM-HMM.
AND NOW YOU WANT IT TO GO TO MIXED USE RESIDENTIAL.
IT'S NOT ME, IT'S, WHO IS IT?
THIS SPEC, THIS AREA I BELIEVE WAS SPECIFICALLY LISTED IN THE, UM, IN MAY WHEN WE HAD THE COMMUNITY INPUT, UH, SESSIONS.
THOSE TWO, WE HAD IT ON A FRIDAY AND A SATURDAY.
THERE'S INDUSTRIAL SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT CAME TO THESE SESSIONS.
SO I, I DON'T KNOW WHO WROTE WHAT, BUT THERE WAS ONLY ONE WRITTEN COMMENT ON THE MAP.
UM, BUT, BUT IT SAYS CHANGE TO INDUSTRIAL.
WHAT'S THAT? IT SAYS CHANGE TO INDUSTRIAL.
WE NEED TO CHANGE IT TO CHANGE IT BACK TO DO YOU DARRELL'S COMMENT.
UM, BUT THIS, I BELIEVE WE GAVE YOU ALL A COPY OF THE PROPOSED FUTURE LAND USE MAP CHANGES AT THAT TIME.
THERE'S A SPREADSHEET IN A WORD DOCUMENT AND ALL OF THE CHANGES WERE IN THERE.
THIS BODY SAW THAT DOCUMENT AND THEN WE MOVED FORWARD WITH THE DRAFT MM-HMM.
I WAS SO BUSY COLLECTING ALL THE OTHER MISTAKES.
I PROBABLY DID NOT LOOK AT IT.
I DON'T KNOW, BUT I, I SAY NO REASON TO CHANGE WHAT LITTLE BIT OF INDUSTRIAL LAND WE HAVE LEFT.
I MEAN, IF WE GET TO FLY OVER, THAT'S GONNA BE WHERE PEOPLE ARE GONNA WANT TO WORK.
WHERE, WHERE ARE PEOPLE GONNA WANT TO WORK IN THIS TOWN? WHERE ARE WE GONNA PUT INDUSTRY? SO, I'M SORRY, I GOT A QUESTION HERE.
THE MAP Y'ALL ARE LOOKING AT AND HIS COMMENTS ARE WRITTEN ON IT.
DOESN'T MA MATCH THE ONE THAT I HAVE IN THE YES.
11 SEVEN? YEAH, IT SHOULD BE THE MAP.
ARE YOU, ARE YOU IN THE VERSION OF NOVEMBER? I HAVE 11 SEVEN, BUT I HAVE THE FUTURE LAND.
THIS MAP THAT HAS THE MARSHALL PLANNING AREA YEAH.
THAT'S A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL WITH CONSERVATION AROUND THE AGE, THE 1130 CHANGE.
YOU, YOU NEED TO, UH, GET, GET HIM A COPY.
UM, THE LAST SEVERAL ITERATIONS THAT YOU ALL HAVE HAD, HAVE BEEN MOSTLY MAP CHANGES RIGHT.
AND CHANGES TO SOME OF THE IMAGERY IN HERE.
UM, SO IF YOU'VE GOT AN EARLIER NOVEMBER VERSION, IT WILL HAVE A MAP THAT WAS INTENDED TO RESEMBLE THE VSA, NOT GEEZ AREA.
THAT'S, CUZ THAT'S WHAT MY, YOU KNOW, OKAY.
THE MAP IN HERE MATCHES WHAT HE'S SAYING.
BUT THIS DOESN'T, THAT'S, THAT WAS THE, WELL AGAIN, IT'S BECAUSE WHEN WE HAD DISCUSSED THE MIXED USE, WE WERE LOOKING MORE AT MIXED USE RESIDENTIAL VERSUS MIXED USE COMMERCIAL.
AND HERE IS THIS ALL IN ONE ONE PACKAGE.
UH, CONNIE COULD, COULD YOU ROLL UP THE, THE MAP AND THIS MAP THAT AREA IS MIXED MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED TO YOU.
NOW THE OTHER AREAS THAT I HAVE MARKED IN THE MIDDLE HERE ARE WHERE WE HAVE THIS MIXED USE, UM, SORRY, UM, MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE THAT USED TO BE COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.
[01:20:01]
ARE ALL REALLY COMMERCIAL USE RIGHT NOW.UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE EITHER GAS STATIONS, GARAGES, HOTELS, UM, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M CONCERNED OF IF, IF WE DON'T DEFINE BETTER WHAT MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE IN, UM, LIKE WE HAVE A HOTEL LOOKING JUST AS YOU COME ACROSS THE BRIDGES ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE WHERE DR.
SIGN'S OLD PROPERTY, UH, HOUSE IS ON, ON SHEO AVENUE.
I KNOW THEY WERE LOOKING FOR A HOTEL BACK IN THAT AREA.
UM, SO I I I'M JUST CONCERNED THAT WE'RE TRYING TO CRAM TOO MANY USES INTO A BROAD DESCRIPTION.
I'M NOT TRYING TO BE MEAN TO YOU, I'M JUST, IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, AND, AND IF WE HELD THAT THEORY, WHY DON'T WE JUST CALL THE WHOLE TOWN MIXED USE, YOU KNOW, AND, AND, AND ALLOW ALL THESE DIFFERENT USES TO OCCUR.
NOW THERE'S A REASON WE TRY TO BREAK IT OUT.
UH, I AM STRONGLY OPPOSED TO, UH, THE AREA ALONG CHERRYDALE AND THE AREA LONG KIRKWOOD.
UH, I WILL MAKE THE CAVEAT THAT I HAPPEN TO LIVE ON CUR FOOT.
SO I'M, I'M, I DON'T THINK THAT SHOULD BE, THERE SHOULD BE ANY COMMERCIAL AT ALL OUT THERE.
I MEAN THAT IS DUPLEXES AND, AND SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING.
AND I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY NEED AT ALL FOR ANYTHING OUT THERE.
NOW THERE ARE A LOT OF APARTMENTS DOWN ON CHERRYDALE, BUT THAT DOESN'T CONSTITUTE WHAT I SEE HERE WITH A MIXTURE OF COMMERCIAL.
UH, THE, UM, SO, SO, SO THAT'S MY COMMENTS.
SO YOU'RE SAYING WE CAN ADDRESS THESE TEXTUALLY AND NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE MATH.
IF YOU'RE GONNA MAKE A MAP CHANGING AND CHANGING THIS AND WHILE ARE YOU DOING IT, DON'T FORGET THE LITTLE RESIDENTIAL PIECE AMONG, UM, THE CURRENT HOUSES OUT ON 6 0 6 THAT'S SHOWN AS INDUSTRIAL.
YEAH, THAT LITTLE PIECE RIGHT THERE.
CIRCLE THE LITTLE CIRCLE UP THERE.
RIGHT HAND CORNER, THE CURRENT SCREEN.
AND OF COURSE ON THIS MAP WE'RE SHOWING HEP HABITAT AS SINGLE FAMILY.
WHEN THAT'S, THAT'S HETA ON THIS MAP IS SHOWN AS THE NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL.
THE LITTLE PIECE TO THE EAST OF IT.
THE LEFT OF IT IS RESIDENTIAL, RIGHT? NO HEP HABITAT.
SO THAT, IS THAT DARKER YELLOW? THAT'S THE NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL.
HAVE THAT IS A MIXTURE OF ATTACHED AND DETACHED.
THAT'S ACTUALLY, I MISREAD THE MAP.
DEAD ON TO WHAT HE HABITATERS GOT REZONED WITH.
SO, SO, SO HOW DO WE ENCOURAGE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT IN THIS MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE? BECAUSE WHEN YOU NEED COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT, PEOPLE THAT I TALK TO WANT TO HAVE SHOPS, THEY WANT TO HAVE STORES.
I MEAN, A, A CHICK-FIL-A IS NOT GONNA COME IN AND PUT APARTMENTS ABOVE THEIR BUILDING.
THIS DOESN'T REQUIRE THEM TO MIX.
WELL, I DON'T THINK THEY, THEY WANT TO BUILD NEXT TO ONE THAT HAS A RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT.
CHICK-FIL-A NEEDS A CERTAIN NUMBER OF HEADS IN TOWN IN ORDER TO COME HERE.
YOU KNOW, CUZ INVARIABLY YOU'RE GONNA GET COMPLAINTS FROM THE RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT.
THERE ARE AREAS ALONG ROYAL AVENUE WHERE WE HAVE EXISTING HOUSES THAT COULD BE COMMERCIAL OFFICES ON THE FIRST FLOOR WITH APARTMENTS ABOVE IT, JUST LIKE WE'RE DOING ON MAIN STREET.
UH, BUT I I, I REALLY THINK WE NEED, YOU KNOW, IF, IF I WERE AN INVESTOR LOOKING AT THIS COMMUNITY, I WANT TO SEE WHERE YOUR COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS ARE AND YOU'RE INDUSTRIAL LIGHT INDUSTRIAL OR HEAVY INDUSTRIAL.
AND AGAIN, I, I APOLOGIZE IF, IF MY COMMENTS WERE MISCONSTRUED ABOUT MM-HMM.
[01:25:01]
AN INDUSTRIAL COMPONENT TO IT.AND IF I REMEMBER THE 1979 ZONING MAP SHOWED ALL OF THAT LAND AS INDUSTRIAL AND EVERYTHING WEST OF 6 0 6 BEING RESIDENTIAL.
AND WE WENT AHEAD AND REZONED SOME OF THAT BECAUSE THIS ZONE WAS ALREADY OUT THERE.
BUT I ALSO THINK THAT SOME OF THAT IN THE INTENTION BEHIND SOME OF THAT INDUSTRIAL OUT THERE WAS PREDICATED ON THE INTERCHANGE OFF OF 66 AT 6 0 6.
WELL WE KNOW THAT'S, SO WITHOUT THAT INTERCHANGE, I DON'T, WE DON'T HAVE THE TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE IN PLACE TO SUPPORT, BUT IT'S NOT KEENLY OBSERVED IF WE PUT THE FLY IN.
IT'S GONNA MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE ON THAT USE OF THAT PROPERTY THERE.
SO I'M NOT SAYING WE, WE WOULDN'T EVER REZONE IT, BUT I WOULD RATHER NOT INDICATE NOW THAT, THAT WE WANT TO GET RID OF OUR INDUSTRIAL OR OUR COMMERCIAL PIECES.
SO, UH, THAT'S JUST A, YOU KNOW, JUST A THOUGHT THAT, THAT I HAVE.
I DON'T CARE WHETHER IT'S TEXT OR THE MAP.
TO ME, I READ MAPS AND MAPS SAY A LOT.
UM, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IF I LOOK AT THAT AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHERE WE'RE GONNA PUT A HOTEL, THE ONLY PLACE BY THIS TEXT RIGHT NOW WE CAN PUT A HOTEL IS, IS IN THE COMMERCIAL, BUT THIS IS NOT THE ZONING ORDINANCE, THIS VISA LAND USE THESE.
BUT WHERE, BRINGS ME BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION.
WHERE DO WE WANT HOTELS? WHERE ON THIS MAP ARE WE GONNA PUT HOTELS OR A GAS STATION OR, UM, WE DO NOT AUTO REPAIR SHOP.
RANGE OF HOTELS ARE GAS STATIONS HERE IN THIS TOWN THOUGH.
OKAY, SO YOU'RE SAYING WE DON'T WANT, I'M JUST LETTING YOU, SO WHERE, WELL, WHERE WHAT, WHERE THE ONES THAT ARE HERE ALREADY, WHAT COLOR ARE THEY? WHAT, WHAT DOES THE MAP SAY THEY HAVE? NO, NO, THEY'RE HOTELS.
THERE ARE HOTELS ALL ALONG THESE ENT, WHAT WE CALL THE ENTRANCE CORRIDORS.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S ORANGE AND YELLOW.
HERE'S OUR ORIGINAL FUTURE LAND IS MA'AM ORIGINAL THE 2018 18 THAT WE AGREED TO.
UM, WELL NOW THERE ALREADY ARE HOTELS THERE AND THAT'S COLORED ORANGE AND MOSTLY ORANGE.
YEAH, I MEAN THIS IS, THIS IS WHERE THE HOTELS ARE.
OH, THAT'S WHERE THE CURRENT, BECAUSE ITS CURRENTLY ZONED, IT'S CURRENTLY ZONED COMMERCIAL.
SO DOING THIS IS NOT GONNA CHANGE THOSE COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES.
BUT THIS IS A PLANNING TOOL FOR FUTURE REZONINGS.
SO IF THERE'RE CURRENTLY HOTELS THERE, WHY CAN'T THERE BE NEW HOTELS THERE? ASSUMING, WELL, I'M SAYING RIGHT NOW IF A NEW HOTEL WANTS TO COME IN, OKAY.
ACCORDING TO THIS, THE ONLY PLACE THEY CAN GO IS IN THE COMMERCIAL.
I THINK YOU'RE READING THAT WRONG.
HOW AM I READING IT WRONG? SHOW ME HOW I'M READING IT WRONG.
WELL, I, I MEAN I'LL BE HAPPY TO BACK UP HERE.
UH, READ THE COMMERCIAL FOR ME.
CUS CUSTOMER COMMERCIAL USES HOTELS, BANKS, MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL, AUTO ORIENTED USES.
HIGHER HEIGHT LIMITS THAN ELSEWHERE.
SO SHOW ME WHERE ELSE ON THIS PAGE IS THE WORD HOTEL? WELL, MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE.
DOES THAT INCLUDE HOTELS LEARNED? THAT'S A QUESTION I ASKED 20 MINUTES AGO.
IT WOULD, IT WOULD, BUT WE DIDN'T SPECIFY IT THERE.
WE SPECIFIED IT IN THE COMMERCIAL.
WE DID NOT SPECIFY IT IN THE MEDIUM.
DESTINY MAKES USE, THAT'S WHY I'M SUGGESTING MAYBE WE DO A TEXT.
SO WHAT ABOUT, THERE'S A SENTENCE HERE.
THIS CATEGORY INCLUDES MULTI-FAMILY RESIDENTIAL UNITS, PERIOD.
HOW ABOUT IF WE PUT A COMMA AFTER UNITS AND SAY, OR COULD INCLUDE HOTELS AND I THINK ABOUT THAT AS, AS DOORS WILL TELL YOU THAT IS CERTAIN, WHICH CAN BE MADE CERTAIN.
WOULD THAT, WOULD THAT SATISFY YOU CHANGE THAT TEXT? NO.
RIGHT HERE THIS CATEGORY INCLUDES MULTI-FAMILY RE AND THAT MEANS THAT, THAT WE COULD PUT A HOTEL MAYBE WHERE WE REALLY DON'T WANT ONE.
WELL GOOD, BUT WE'D HAVE TO APPROVE IT.
AND, AND THAT'S WELL AND HE'S GOT A, HE'S GOT A BSA THERE, SO HE'S NOT LIKELY IN A HOTEL THERE.
AND WE'D HAVE ANOTHER BITE AT THAT APPLE.
NO, I, THAT'S NOT, I MEAN I WON'T BE HERE.
WELL, BUT I MEAN PLANNING COMMISSION WOULDN'T WOULD, BUT, BUT I MEAN IF MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE CURRENTLY INCLUDES MOST OF THE HOTELS.
THEN IF YOU JUST ADD, THIS CATEGORY INCLUDES MULTI-FAMILY, RESIDENTIAL, GAS STATIONS.
WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF US? TIME? I'M NOT, IT'S NORMALLY IN A COMMERCIAL ZONE.
I MEAN, WHY ARE WE AFRAID TO CALL OUT COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL ON THIS MAP? WE'RE NOT WHAT'S YOUR NO, THE MAJORITY OF WHAT'S BEEN TURNED ORANGE HERE IS RED ON YOUR MAP.
UM, YOU'VE TURNED THE WHOLE, THIS ONE HAS THE WHOLE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS MULTI-FAMILY HIGH DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
[01:30:01]
UM, WHAT, WHAT DO YOU HAVE AS WE'VE GOT IT AS A NEIGHBORHOOD TYPE COMMERCIAL TO ALLOW THE CONVERSION OF SOME OF THE LARGER HISTORIC HOMES INTO BUSINESSES.AND WE'VE HAD SOME ENFORCEMENT ISSUES WITH THOSE LARGE HOMES BEING CHOPPED UP INTO SEVERAL APARTMENTS.
WELL, AGAIN, I DON'T WANNA BELABOR THE POINT.
I'M, YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT MY SETTLEMENTS ARE.
I THINK THAT'S ALL I HOW TO REPRESENT OUR COMMERCIAL, INDUSTRIAL, AND RESIDENTIAL ON THIS MAP.
NOW IF YOU GUYS ARE HAPPY WITH THAT, WE CAN MOVE FORWARD AND GO RIGHT IN WITH IT.
BUT WELL IF, IF YOU'D BE MORE COMFORTABLE BY ADDING A COUPLE OF WORDS WOULDN'T MAKES ME, IT DOESN'T SAY SO SPECIFICALLY ALLOWING HOTELS OR I'D LIKE FOR THERE TO BE A CONSENSUS BECAUSE IT SHOULDN'T JUST BE ONE PERSON.
NO, I UNDERSTAND ONE PERSON DRIVING THIS WHOLE PROCESS.
BUT I'M WANT TO HAVE A SIGN HERE THAT SAYS PROVE ME WRONG.
I'M TRYING TO GET CONSENSUS BY JUST ADDING A COUPLE WORDS.
MR. WELLS, YOU'RE, YOU'RE THE TIEBREAKER HERE.
I DUNNO THAT IT'S GONNA, YOU HAVE BEEN SILENCED SO FAR OR WHERE, WHERE DO YOU, I MEAN THIS IS AN IMPORTANT DOCUMENT.
I IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT, I DON'T WANT TO GLOSS OVER AND I THESE ARE THE CONCERNS I HAVE AND THIS IS ALSO A LIVING DOCUMENT.
THIS DOCUMENT IS NOT SET IN STONE.
THIS MAP IS NOT SET IN STONE STATE CODE REQUIRES US TO REVIEW THIS EVERY 55 YEARS AND RE-CERTIFY.
THERE IS ANOTHER BITE AT THE APPLE.
THIS IS NOT UNDERSTAND THE END ALL, BE ALL.
AND, UH, BUT, AND SOME THINGS HAVE BEEN SAID HERE TONIGHT THAT I REALLY NEED TO PROCESS IN MY HERE.
I DON'T UNLESS YOU GUYS, BUT UH, BUT WE NEED TO GET THIS OUTTA HERE.
WELL, WE WANT, WE WANNA TAKE IT TO OUR MEETING SAYS WHO WILL I THINK SAYS US IF WE WANT TO DO THIS? YEAH.
I MEAN WE HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS FOR HOW LONG? A YEAR NOW? A YEAR AND A HALF.
I'D RATHER TAKE A MONTH AND AND GET IT RIGHT THEN PUSH IT THROUGH.
THIS MAP WAS PUT BEFORE THIS BODY AND THE PUBLIC BACK IN JULY.
UNTIL THE FIRST GENERATION WE WERE SO BUSY CORRECTING ALL THE OTHER ERRORS.
WELL, AND THAT, THAT THAT'S WHAT, YOU KNOW, THE MAP WE HAD OF OUR PREVIOUS VERSION HAD THIS AS RESIDENTIAL WITH THE CONSERVATION.
WELL, AND THAT'S, THAT'S RIGHT NOW THAT'S ORDER OF THE DAM.
THE QUESTION IS HOW DO WE END THE CONVERSATION TONIGHT WITH YOU FEELING COMFORTABLE? WELL, I, I HOW WHAT YOUR COMMENTS ON IT? YEAH, WHAT'S YOUR COMMENT? I THINK ADDING A COUPLE OF WORDS TO THE TEXT TRYING TO, SHOULD DO IT.
MR. WELLS, HOW DO YOU FEEL? YOU NEED TO, YOU NEED, YEAH.
I'LL TELL, HOLD ON FOR A SECOND.
YOU KNOW, I, IF IT'S A TERMINOLOGY CHANGE, I MEAN THEIR DESCRIPTION'S NOT DEFINITIONS.
SO THEY'RE NOT EXPLICITLY WRITTEN OUT CORRECT.
AND IT'S A, IT'S A LIVING, IT'S A GUIDANCE DOCUMENT.
SO I DON'T THINK IF YOU MOVE FORWARD WITH IT, YOU'RE NOT TELLING THE WHOLE WORLD.
THIS IS FRONT ROYAL IN THE FUTURE.
LET, BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT WILL SEE THAT THOUGH AS, OH, THEY JUST PUT THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
THEY PUT THAT OUT TO THE WORLD.
WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO JUSTIFY THIS TO COUNCIL.
SO THE QUESTIONS I'M ASKING, I GOTTA A FEEL AND COUNSEL'S GONNA BE ASKING VERY SIMILAR QUESTIONS.
MAY BE A LITTLE ROUGH, BUT, UH, THOSE QUESTIONS ARE COMING.
SO HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THEM? UM, AND WHEN, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY SAY, WELL WHAT IN THE WORLD HAPPENED TO OUR COMMERCIAL PROPERTY? BUT THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXACTLY THEIR COMMENTS TAKE IT BACK.
AND AT THAT POINT, THEY'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS TOO.
THEY, THEY HEAR IT AFTER YOU, THEY HAVE COMMENTS, THEY CAN MAKE COMMENTS, THEN IT COMES BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION TO TAKE IT UP AGAIN IF THEY HAD THESE MAJOR ISSUES.
THESE, THESE MAPS HAVE BEEN PROVIDED TO COUNCIL IN AT LEAST THREE WORKSHOPS.
AND SOME OF THE, THIS MAP HAS BEEN CHANGED BECAUSE OF THOSE WORKSHOPS.
THERE WERE WORKSHOPS WITH COUNCIL, THERE WERE WORKSHOPS WITH FRIDA.
THERE WERE WORKSHOPS WITH THIS BODY AND THE PUBLIC.
AND THE LAST THING ON IT, THE SCALES ARE WRONG AND ALL THESE MAPS.
SO THEY, THEY NEED TO AND IT WILL BE FIXED REVIS, THOSE.
SO DO YOU WANT, UH, UH, BEING THE MEDIATOR BETWEEN THIS, THE, UH, AREA THERE ON, ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF UH, AGENDA SHORES, THE WARREN COUNTY FRONT ROYAL INDUSTRIAL PARK.
SO THEY'RE, I'M UNDERSTANDING THE CONSENSUS OF THE COMMISSIONERS HERE IS TO HAVE THAT BACK TO INDUSTRIAL.
LATE INDUSTRIAL LIGHT FLEX INDUSTRIAL.
IT'S UP HERE AT THE TOP LIGHT FLEX INDUSTRIAL.
[01:35:01]
CURRENTLY IT'S, IT'S ZONED, UM, IT'S CURRENTLY IN OUR CURRENT ZONING ORDINANCE.IT'S, IT'S LIGHT FLEX INDUSTRIAL.
YOU SURE IS THAT, IS THAT THE AREA, THAT CONSENSUS? WE WANT THAT GO THAT ORANGE TO GO.
RIGHT NOW WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY 250 USABLE ACRES OF INDUSTRIAL LIMITED.
IT'S ACTUALLY LIMITED INDUSTRIAL.
IS THAT YOU WANT THAT TO CONTINUE? IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT INDUSTRIAL EMPLOYMENT.
DID, DID, DID MR. LLOYD LEAVE AS SOON AS WE GET THROUGH THIS? I WAS JUST WANNA SEE IF HE HAD ANY BECAUSE YOU, YOU INVITED HIM TO SPEAK, RIGHT? NO.
COME HE, YOU HAVE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.
I WOULD PREFER IT ON EITHER THIS COMP PLAN TO BE INDUSTRIAL.
IS THAT JUST TO MOVING FORWARD, IS THAT THE CONSENSUS ABOUT THE THREE OF YOU? THAT, THAT THAT GRAY? YEAH.
UH, THAT, THAT ORANGE GOES GRAY, WHICH IS LIGHT FLEX INDUSTRIAL.
IS THAT YOU AGREE WITH THAT? I'M MAKE A NOTE ON THAT.
IT'S A SMALL PIECE WILL RETURN TO RESIDENTIAL THAT YEAH.
THERE WITH THE, UH, THE LITTLE PART, THE HOUSES ARE ALREADY BUILT THAT HAS THAT THE RESIDENTIAL AND THE OTHER PART'S INDUSTRIAL.
I'M, I'M, I'M HAPPY WITH THAT.
SWITCH TWO COLORS, RIGHT? YEAH.
JUST SWITCH THE COLORS BECAUSE THERE'S, THEY'RE EXISTING HOMES.
THERE'S EXISTING RESIDE, RIGHT? THE THE GRAY SQUARE GOES ORANGE IN THE ORANGE.
AND THEN HETA IS ALREADY THAT, THAT NO CHANGE WILL BE TO THE HEP PAD.
IF YOU NOTICE I JUST CIRCLED THAT THAT WAS JUST HER.
I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON.
UM, THE OTHER, WHERE I'M ADAMANTLY OPPOSED IS OUT IN PISCO CITY.
ALL THOSE, JUST TO RETURN THOSE TO NO, TO THE LEFT.
I'M TRYING TO GET MY OKAY THERE.
POINT OVER POINT OVER HERE DARRELL.
BUT IT, I I I HAD A GUN THAT SHOT LIKE THAT OCCASIONALLY.
YEAH, IT WAS KIND OF A WONDER, WONDER GUN.
YOU WONDER WHERE IT WAS GOING.
CAN WE TURN THAT TO WHAT THEY HAVE BOTH OF THOSE? I WANT THOSE TO BE THE DARKER YELLOW THAN NEIGHBORHOOD RESIDENTIAL.
I WISH THERE'S TWO AREAS THERE THAT'S A CONSENSUS BETWEEN THE THREE OF YOU.
SO YEAH, I THANK WHAT PAGE? WHAT PAGE IS THAT? THAT'S WHAT THAT'S ON.
YOU WANNA LOOK AT, THAT'S WHERE I GO FROM 1 74 TO 1 76 AND IT'S DENSITY CHANGE NEIGHBORHOOD.
OKAY, SO THOSE, SO WE AGREE TO THE, SO THEN THE ONLY QUESTION LEFT IS HOW DO WE SHOW COMMERCIAL PROPERTY? I, I THINK THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE AT IS ON THE COMMERCIAL AREAS.
THOSE, THEY'RE ON SOUTH STREET.
NORTH ROYAL, NORTH SHENANDOAH.
ARE YOU GONNA ADD A TEXT CHANGES TO THAT OR THAT? YOU HAVE TWO OPTIONS THERE.
I BELIEVE THESE AREAS HERE, THESE, SO WE JUST CHANGED THEM FROM ORANGE TO YELLOW.
AND IF YOU GUYS ARE HAPPY WITH THIS MIXED USE OR MEDIUM DENSITY MIXED USE HAS ENCOMPASSING EVERYTHING WE NEED FOR A COMMERCIAL, THEN WE'LL GO TO PUBLIC HEARING OR YOU ANSWER TAKES TO THAT AS WELL.
WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE PUBLIC HEARING NOW THAT WE'VE CHANGED THESE TWO.
THAT'LL HAVE TO BE FEBRUARY IN ORDERED IN ADVERTISED.
BUT SO, SO WE CAN ACTUALLY BRING THIS UP AGAIN AT A WORK SESSION IN FEBRUARY BECAUSE AGAIN, I'M, WHICH WOULD BE BETTER TO DO WHEN MR. WOOD IS HERE.
CAUSE WE DO HAVE COMMENTS FROM HIM AND MR. VA FROM F RLP THAT I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT BEFORE I COMMENT FURTHER ON, ON THE MAP.
UH, BUT UH, BUT JUST TO LET YOU TO KNOW, I REALLY THINK WE SHOULD BE
[01:40:01]
VERY SPECIFIC ON THE MAP AS FAR AS COLORS AND NOT TRY TO HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF MIXED USE.UM, AND AGAIN, AS THE HER ZONING OR IRON DIRECTOR SAID THE ULTIMATE TEST WILL BE HOW WE WRITE UP THE SUBDIVISION AND ZONING ORDINANCE, THAT'S WHERE WE CAN CATCH A LOT OF NEXT EXAMPLE, THE, THE NUANCES OF IT.
BUT, UH, THAT'S WHERE YOU GET INTO THE WEEDS WITH EACH OF THESE CATEGORIES.
I THINK SOMETHING YOU GOTTA REALIZE IT'S NOT GONNA BE PERFECT FIRST TIME AROUND.
WE'RE GONNA FIND PROBLEMS DOWN THE ROAD WITH THIS.
AND I, GRANTED I'M OLD SCHOOL, YOU KNOW, I I I HAVE A DIFFERENT, CUZ I, YOU KNOW, I'VE LIVED HER ALL MY LIFE.
I'M GONNA DIE HERE AND YOU KNOW, I KNOW OUR COMMUNITY AND I THINK I KNOW THE PEOPLE IN IT.
UH, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T WANT A NORTHERN VIRGINIA RIGHT.
AND JUMBLED, ALL THIS MIXED USE IN THIS AREA IS NORTHERN VIRGINIA.
I DON'T, YOU KNOW, AND MY, WELL THE, WELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, BETWEEN THIS, I DON'T KNOW, TELL ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT, BUT IF IT REASSURES YOU AT ALL, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS MIXED USE IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA IS SPACE NORTHERN NO SPACE.
BECAUSE NORTHERN VIRGINIA HAD OPEN LOTS OF OPEN SPACES, WHICH THEY WERE ABLE TO BECOME NORTHERN VIRGINIA AND WE DON'T.
AND SO WE, WE CAN HAVE MODERN DAY URBAN CHARM AND CONVENIENCE WITHOUT STRAW IN TOWN.
AND THAT'S, AND THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE'RE NOT, IT'S ALSO AUTO ORIENTED USES.
SO WHEN PEOPLE ARE CLAIMING, LIKE SAYING THEY WANT WALKABILITY, THEY WANT THAT SMALL TOWN CHARM.
YOU WANT PLACES THAT YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR HOUSE.
LIKE I CAN WALK DOWNTOWN, I CAN GO WALK TO THE CURB YEAH.
AND GET WHERE I NEED TO GO WITHOUT USING A CAR.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO CREATE.
WHAT WILL BE THE DATE OF THE NEXT WORK SESSION? THE FIRST WEDNESDAY.
SO I THINK WE SHOULD ALSO HAVE TO HIRE HEIGHT, CHEW ON THESE THINGS UNTIL THAT ONE BRING IT BACK AND THEN IT WILL BE FEBRUARY 1ST.
WHAT IS FEBRUARY? THE FIRST S WEDNESDAY.
THAT'S THE DAY BEFORE ROUND ALL DAY.
THAT'S WHAT
SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE I'M IN A GROUND ALL DAY.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM WORKING THINGS OUT OR, OR COMPROMISING.
I JUST, YOU KNOW, WANT TO BE ABLE TO TELL COUNCIL BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO SELL IT TO COUNCIL.
THEY'RE GONNA ASK US, IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT? AND IF THEY ASK ME THAT, I GOTTA BE ABLE TO SAY THAT.
NOW, UM, ARE YOU ABLE TO SAY THAT THOUGH? NOT RIGHT NOW, BUT MAYBE BY THIS FEBRUARY THE FIRST I MAY BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
AND AGAIN, WE WANT TO HEAR FROM GLENN AND BY THEN WE MAY HAVE ANOTHER MEMBER ALSO, YOU SHOULD HAVE ANOTHER MEMBER.
SO WE MIGHT WANNA HAVE ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY HERE.
IS THERE A DATE THEY NEED TO HAVE ANYTHING WRITTEN TO YOU? LIKE PAGE THIS AND THAT, WE WANT THIS AND THAT? OR HAS THAT BEEN COVERED? I THINK THE ISSUE HERE IS IF IT'S GONNA GO TO ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING AND ANOTHER WORK SESSION, WE HAVE DON'T WRITING BY THE FIRST ANYWAY.
I WOULD NEED IT BY THE, BECAUSE OF WHAT OUR FINAL ARGUMENTS ARE TO FILL UP OR DOWN.
BUT I DON'T SAY WE HAVE THE PUBLIC HEARING.
AND IF YOU GET COMMENTS WHERE PEOPLE ARE REQUESTING ADDITIONAL MAP CHANGES, ARE YOU GONNA BE WILLING TO CERTIFY WITH THE FOLLOWING CHANGES OR YOU GONNA WANNA TAKE IT BACK TO ANOTHER WORK SESSION? THEN, THEN WHY EVEN HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING? I MEAN, SOMETHING MAY COME UP.
WHO, I MEAN I I I DON'T EVER WANT TO SAY THAT I'M NOT GONNA LISTEN TO THE PUBLIC.
SO I WOULD LEAN HEAVILY THAT WE'RE WORKING OUT WHAT OUR EXPERIENCES ARE, BUT YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY MAY COME IN WITH SOMETHING THAT MAKES A HECK OF A LOT OF SENSE AT THE LAST MINUTE.
UH, AND AGAIN, I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON THIS.
UH, WE'VE GOT 15 MINUTES LEFT.
I KNOW WE HAVE DAVE SANA, WHO IS THE OWNER OF MARSHALL PLANNING AREA 15.
UH, DAVE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC HEARING OBVIOUSLY IN FEBRUARY.
IF, IF IF YOU WANT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR LETTER, WE GOT YOUR LETTER.
UH, I DISTRIBUTED IT TO EVERYBODY.
BUT AGAIN, UM, GLENN, MR. GLENN WOOD IS, YOU KNOW, IS NOT HERE.
AND UH, I HAVEN'T FULLY READ YOUR LETTER, BUT I THINK I UNDERSTAND THE GIFT OF UH, UH, AND I THINK FROM LOOKING AT YOUR LETTER, YOU WERE BASICALLY AGREEING WITH THE VSA AT THAT USE SOMEWHERE AROUND THAT AREA.
UM, HESITANT TO BRING THE VSA INTO THIS DISCUSSION AT THIS JUNCTURE.
[01:45:01]
AT DISAGREEMENTS AND OKAY.HAD A LOOK AT IT, BUT I'M, I WILL HAVE MORE COMMENTS FOR THE COMMISSION.
THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
MY FINAL STATEMENT, MAKE SURE YOU COME TO THE PUBLIC HEARING AND BE PREPARED TO SPEAK ON IN THE FEBRUARY PUBLIC HEARING BECAUSE I, AS MUCH AS THE STATE DON'T THINK SO I WANT TO GET THIS THING OUTTA HERE.
CAUSE WE GOTTA GET TO THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE AND THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
AND I, I'M RETIRING COME AUGUST, SO, YOU KNOW, IF Y'ALL THINK Y'ALL CAN OUTLAST ME, I DON'T KNOW.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? FELLOW COMMISSIONERS ON, UH, YOUR THOUGHTS? I JUST WANNA CLARIFY, LAWRENCE SAYS SHE, IF WE ARE GONNA MAKE ANY WRITING CHANGES, CHANGES YOUR NEXT FEBRUARY ONE BY FEBRUARY ONE.
DO YOU HAVE BRING THEM, BRING THEM HERE? YES.
UH, WE HAVE ABOUT 15 MINUTES BEFORE WE'RE GOING TO GET OUTTA HERE.
UH, DID YOU WANT 'EM SAY ANYTHING AT ALL OR YOU'RE JUST HERE FINDING OUT WHAT'S GOING ON? I'M FINE.
JUST FINDING OUT WHAT'S GOING.
NOW WE WILL BE HOLDING A PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS MATTER AGAIN.
THE THIRD WEDNESDAY OF FEBRUARY, WHATEVER THAT IS.
AND THEN, UH, WE'LL ALSO BE TAKING ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AT FEBRUARY OR WE WILL BE DISCUSSING IT IN FINAL DETAIL ON FEBRUARY ONE, WORK SESSION FOR US.
AND THEN WE'LL FORWARD THIS TO COUNSEL.
IS THAT OKAY? IS THAT OKAY? STAN, YOU HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS YOU WANT TO ADD? HOW'S EVERYTHING ELSE GOING? WE GOT A NEW YEAR UPON US.
THESE PROCEEDINGS ARE NOW TELEVISED.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE OUR OLD WORK SESSIONS SO FOLKS CAN STAY AT HOME AND WATCH US.
SO YOU CAN LOOK AT IT AND, UH, YOU CAN WATCH IT REPEATEDLY ON FRIDAY NIGHT.
I'M NOT SURE THERE'S MOST REALITY HERE, BUT I'M PROBABLY SPACED OUT.
SO, MR. CHAIRMAN, WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO GET WITH YOU AND COME UP WITH TEXT OR NO? WOULD IT BE HELPFUL? LET, LET ME NO, IT WOULDN'T BE HELPFUL.
BUT LET ME, LET ME THINK ABOUT WHAT, UH, SO AS WHAT DIRECTION THAT I WANT.
THE MAJOR RECOMMEND DISTINCTION HERE IS THAT THE COMMERCIAL IS THE AUTO ORIENTED USES.
AND IF WE'RE TRYING TO PROMOTE THE WALKABILITY, THAT'S WHY WE WENT WITH THE MEDIUM DISTRIBUTION.
THAT'S A GOOD, BUT I MEAN, UM, THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE THAT WANT COMMERCIAL, YOU KNOW, SO THIS ISN'T, WE HAVE TO HAVE A BALANCE RIGHT NOW.
WE DON'T HAVE A BALANCE COMMERCIAL.
THERE'S COMMERCIAL THAT'S AUTO ORIENTED.
THEN THIS COMMERCIAL THAT'S PEDESTRIANIZED, I MEAN, OR OR COUNCIL MAY NOT WANT ANY COMMERCIAL OR INDUSTRIAL.
MAYBE THEY WANNA JUST HAVE TO RAISE, UH, REAL ESTATE TAXES TO COVER.
CAUSE WE KNOW REAL ESTATE TAXES DON'T COVER IT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT IF YOU GET RID OF THE RED ON THIS MAP AND HAVE THE ORANGE THAT THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO RAISE TAXES OR THAT WE'RE KILLING THE TAX BASE.
ANY OTHER BUSINESS NEED TO COME BEFORE THIS GROUP.