[00:00:01]
OKAY, I THINK WE'RE READY TO GO
[Board of Architectural Review on December 13, 2022.]
HERE.UH, CALL FROM OUR MEETING TO ORDER.
UM, FIRST THING WE GOTTA DO IS REVIEW THE MINUTES FROM OUR PREVIOUS MEETING.
ROLL CALL FIRST, AND THEN PREVIOUS MEETING.
SO, UH, THE MINUTES FROM MY LAST MEETING.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE NOVEMBER 8TH MEETING.
AND IF YOU CAN JUST SPEAK LOUD AND, SURE.
SO WE'RE HAVING THIS MEETING TONIGHT, UM, ON PUBLIC HEARING, UH, FOR INPUT ON THE 1 31 EAST MAIN STREET BUILDING, OR A PROPOSED PARTIAL DEMOLITION.
UM, I THINK THE FIRST THING WE NEED TO DO IS REVIEW THE APPLICATION.
UH, THE APPLICATION IS FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO DEMOLISH AND REMOVE A PORTION OF THE CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE ON THE PROPERTY WITHIN TOWN.
A FRONT ROW OF HISTORIC DISTRICT LOCATED AT 1 31 EAST MAIN STREET.
UH, THE PROPERTY IS OWNED C2 DOWNTOWN BUSINESS DISTRICT AND IS IDENTIFIED AS TAX MAP NUMBER 20 A SEVEN, SECTION FOUR, PARCEL 37.
UM, INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET IS A STAFF REPORT DEMOLITION REVIEW GUIDELINES, THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS APPLICATION, AND THE PRESERVATION ASSOCIATES OF VIRGINIA COURT FROM 1993.
WE'LL GIVE A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE PROPERTY, UH, THAT'S CONTAINED IN YOUR PACKET.
UH, THE ESTIMATED DATE OF CONSTRUCTION OCCURRED IN 1879 WITH THE BUILDING BEING USED AS A FRONT ROW METHODIST CHURCH.
THE BUILDING INCLUDES TWO OR POSSIBLY THREE TYPES OF MASONRY DESTRUCTION METHODS.
UH, THE REAR ADDITION MAY BE BRICK VENEER OVER CONCRETE BLOCK IN 1909 TO 1909, OR 1908 TO 1909.
ADDITIONS WERE ADDED TO THE CORE UNIT OF THE CHURCH IN THE FRONT AND AR REAR.
IF YOU COULD, UH, ADVANCE THAT SLIDE PLEASE FURTHER, UH, THAT'S FINE FOR NOW.
AT THIS TIME, THE CHURCH SPACE WAS CONVERTED INTO COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENT OF OFFERING STORES HOST OFFICE, AND A THEATER.
THE FRONT EDITION IS ONE OF THE MOST SUBSTANTIAL AND SOPHISTICATED DOWNTOWN COMMERCIAL DESIGNS.
PRIOR TO 1920, THE TERRACOTTA HOLLOW SUPER STRUCTURE, WHICH, UH, STARTS, I'M GETTING MY POINTER TO WORK, TRAIN HAS A FORCEFIELD ON IT.
IT SAYS, UH, THERE WERE THE BRICK FROM THE CHURCH CHANGES TO THE TERRACOTTA AT THAT SCENE, UH, THAT WAS COMPLETED AND PROBABLY INTENDED TO BE FIREPROOF.
THE RIVING ON THE SIDES OF THE HOLLOW CLAY TILES PROVIDED A GRIPPING SURFACE THAT AIDED BOTH IN BONDING STRUCTURAL CLAY TILE COURSES, AND ALSO IN THE BONDING PLASTER OR STUCCO USED TO COVER THE TILES ON THE BUILDING, INTERIOR OR EXTERIOR.
THESE HOLLOW CLAY TILES ARE NOT HARD FIRED AND DO NOT USUALLY HAVE A GLAZE WATER RESISTANT SURFACES.
YOU CAN JUST BACK UP WITH THE ROLLING THING.
UH, WITHOUT THE, UH, THE SURFACE ON THE, UH, CLAY TOWELS, THE, UH, THOSE CLAY TOWELS ARE EXPOSED TO RAIN AND WEATHER, WHICH TO CAUSES THE TILES TO CHIP SCALE AND DETERIORATE RAPIDLY.
[00:05:02]
THE USE OF THE HOLLOW CLAY TOWELS FOR CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS BEGAN IN THE 1850S AND BEGAN DISAPPEARING FROM COMMON USE AS ARCHITECTURAL COMPONENTS OF CONSTRUCTION AS EARLY AS 1930.UH, THE REAR PORTION THERE WHERE YOU SEE THE CHAIN FROM THE, UH, CLAY TOWELS TO BRICK, WAS BUILT APPROXIMATELY IN 1950.
THERE'S THE REAR OF THE BUILDING AND THE, UH, OTHER SIDE NEXT TO THE SCHULS, UH, HOME OFFICE OR HOME, UH, FURNISHING STORE.
AND THEN BACK TO THE TERRACOTTA CLAYS TILES.
THE THEATER OFFERED LIVE PERFORMANCES AND FILM SHOWINGS.
THEN THE THEATER SPACE WAS USED FOR MOVIES ONLY AND EVENTUALLY WENT OUTTA BUSINESS AROUND 1950.
THE BRICK EDITION WAS ADDED, AND IT WAS PROBABLY BRICK VENEER OVER CONCRETE BLOCK.
UH, NEXT, UH, PORTIONS OF THE CLAY TILE.
UH, WE CAN SEE WHERE THERE'S WATER INTRUSION ON BOTH SIDES.
THIS IS THE SIDE NEXT TO THE SHULS BUILDING, AND ON DOWN, THERE'S CRACKS IN THE SEAM OF THE BUILDING AT THIS LOCATION ALSO AS WELL AROUND THE FRONT.
NOW WE CAN GO BACK TO THE, UH, COUPLE OF SLIDES AT THE BEGINNING, PLEASE.
FIVE, THREE, MAYBE FOUR, PLEASE.
UH, YOU CAN SEE THERE ON THAT SIDE, YOU CAN SEE WATER INTRUSION COMING DOWN THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING.
UH, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THERE WAS A TEMP TO, UH, REMEDY WHERE THERE HOLES IN THE, UH, TERRACOTTA BLOCK WHERE THEY PATCHED IT WITH CONCRETE.
UH, THEY OFFERED TRY TO DO REPAIR THERE ALSO, WHERE YOU SEE THE PUBLIC HEARING SIGN BY PUTTING CONCRETE IN THOSE SEAMS ALSO IN THERE.
AND IF YOU GO TO THE LAST SLIDE, PLEASE.
SO THE PORTION FOR, UH, THE DEMOLITION PERMIT IS ONLY ONLY FOR THE TERRACOTTA SECTION OF THE BUILDING.
UH, IT IS NOT FOR THE CHURCH PART OF THE BUILDING, ONLY FOR THE TERRACOTTA SECTION OF THE BUILDING BACK TO THE REAR WHERE THE BUILDING MAKES AN ANGLE POINT THERE ON CHURCH STREET.
UH, THEY WILL, UH, APPLICATION IS DUE, UH, PART OF THE ROOF REMOVAL, UH, THERE IN THE CENTER AND REPLACE THAT.
SO THE APPLICATION IS, AGAIN, ONLY FOR THE DEMOLITION OF THE REAR PART OF THE BUILDING, THE PEROTTA TYPE, UH, BLOCK, AND THE BRICK VENEER IN THE VERY REAR.
IT IS NOT FOR THE, UH, CHURCH BUILDING AT ALL, JUST FOR REPAIR, UH, REMOVAL AND REPAIR OF THE ROOF.
IN BETWEEN THOSE, UH, TWO STRUCTURES, UH, MEMBERS OF THE BAR, YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? NOT AT THIS TIME, I DON'T THINK SO.
UH, THE STAFF FINDINGS IS THE TERRACOTTA HOLLOW TILES DO NOT ADD ANY SIGNIFICANT HISTORICAL ELEMENT TO THE MAIN STRUCTURE.
UH, IS THE APPLICANT HERE, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO SAY? UH, SURE.
I CAN TALK THIS CUTTING HIT ON MONDAY.
SO IT'S AMAZING WHAT THEY CAN DO THESE DAYS.
UM, LISTEN, I'VE BEEN AT THIS THING FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS, MAYBE FOUR.
AND TAKE ME THROUGH A CERTAIN PROCESS THAT SAYS, OKAY, WE'RE TALKING TO ZONING.
WE'RE TALKING TO PEOPLE HERE AND THERE.
AND, UH, UH, I, I'M REALLY NO FARTHER ALONG NOW THAN I WAS WHEN I STARTED.
UH, BILL AND I CAME IN HERE AND, AND, UH, AND GAVE A LITTLE PRESENTATION, JUST KIND OF ENTERED IT KIND OF, UH, WE, WE GIVE NO DIRECTION.
SO I SAID, WELL, CAN WE DO THIS? CAN WE DO THAT? AND A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT THINGS.
I'M TALKING ANYTHING FROM, UH, UH, APARTMENTS TO, UH, 600 FOOT DWELLINGS TO, UH, THAT I CAN DO BY, RIGHT BY, UH, IF I PUT, UH, OFFICE SPACE IN.
EVERYBODY'S CONCERNED, UH, ALONG THE WAY SEEM TO BE A PARKING ISSUE, AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A PARKING ISSUE TOO, IF I'M HAVING TO FILL THAT UP WITH, UH, UH, PEOPLE, WHETHER IT BE IN AN APARTMENT OR IN ANYTHING REALLY.
THE PARKING IS MY UNDERSTANDING IN THIS TOWN, UH, NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT, UM, MAYBE A LITTLE CLOSER.
[00:10:01]
I, I COME TO THE FIRST STEP OF THIS WHOLE PROCESS TO GET AT LEAST SOME MOVEMENT TO SEE WHERE I CAN GO.I'M, I'M, I'M IN ONE OF THOSE POSITIONS WHERE I'M A LITTLE OLD WINDED TOO.
I'M NOT GONNA DO IT TOO MUCH HERE.
AND SO I LOOK AT THE BUILDING AND SAY, I'VE HAD THIS THING FOR A WHILE.
UH, THE, THE FRONT PART OF THE BUILDING, I, WHEN I FIRST GOT, UH, MIKE GRAHAM, I THINK WAS THE GUY, AND HE, UH, HE WAS WORK, HE WORKED WITH ME TO PUT THE, UH, ALL THE, UH, SCAFFOLDING AROUND IT SO I COULD FIX THE FRONT PART OF THE BUILDING.
WELL, THE, THE GUTTERING UP THERE WAS JUST ABSOLUTELY EAT OUT.
ALL OF THE WATER WAS COMING DOWN AND, AND JUST DESTROYING EVERYTHING ON THE INSIDE.
UH, SO I STOPPED ALL THAT, GOT THAT PRETTY WELL UNDER CONTROL.
UH, DID A LITTLE WORK IN THE BACK, AND I SAID, OKAY, WELL, I'M PUTTING A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY AT THIS.
AND, AND I, AND I DID THAT WITH, WITH REAL GOOD INTENT.
NOW, MY INTENT INITIALLY WAS THAT I WAS GONNA HAVE A BUSINESS IN HERE, AND THAT HAD TO DO WITH, UH, THE, UH, HUB ZONE STATUS, UH, BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
AND SO, UH, WARREN COUNTY LOST THAT.
UH, I HAVE SINCE, UH, MOVED THAT BUSINESS TO LURAY.
BUT THE BUILDING THEN BECAME A FACTOR.
AND I'M SAYING, OKAY, WELL, WHAT DON'T WANT TO DO HERE? SO I CAME UP WITH ALL KINDS OF IDEAS.
I CAN GIVE YOU IDEAS RIGHT NOW.
I MEAN, I CAN TALK TO YOU ONE OF THREE OR FOUR OF YOU, AND WE COME UP WITH A GOOD IDEA.
WHAT COULD WE DO WITH THIS BUILDING? BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT I'M LOOKING AT SAY, OKAY, WHAT IS THE BEST THING THAT THIS BUILDING'S STRAIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF EVERYTHING.
AND IT'S SOME PARTS OF, IT'S STILL IN REALLY GOOD SHAPE.
WHAT CAN WE DO? OKAY, WHAT CAN WE AS COMMUNITY DO? I'M FINE.
I MEAN, I LOOK AT IT AND SAY, HMM, OKAY.
UH, CAN I MAKE MONEY THERE? SURE.
IF I CAN'T, WELL, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S OKAY.
I HAVEN'T MADE MONEY ON EVERY DEAL THAT I MAKE.
SO, UH, BUT IT WILL BE MY INTENT TO MAKE MONEY IF I CAN.
BUT IF I'M BREAK EVEN, I'M HAPPY.
THE VALUE TO ME AT THIS POINT WITH MY AGE AND EVERYTHING, I'M SITTING HERE SAYING, OKAY, UH, DO I REALLY WANT TO GET IN HERE AND, UH, BRING IN A HAMMER? AND NOT ME.
I'M NOT GONNA DO IT THAT WAY, BUT I CAN PUT THE NECESSARY PIECES IN PLACE TO MAKE IT ALL HAPPY.
I'VE GOT SOME RENDITIONS HERE, UH, OF WHAT IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE.
AND THEN THERE, THERE ARE MODIFICATIONS THAT I'VE COME UP WITH A ALONG THE WAY.
AND, UH, I'VE ALSO GOTTEN TO A POINT THAT SAYS, WELL, WELL, YOU KNOW, UH, HOW CAN I REMEDY PARKING? WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT THOUGHTS ABOUT ALL OF THAT.
AND, BUT UNTIL I GET IN FRONT OF SOMEBODY, YOU GUYS, APPARENTLY, UH, I NEED TO KNOW WHETHER I CAN DO ANYTHING.
UM, I WANNA DO THE BEST THAT I CAN FOR THIS TOWN, AND I WANT TO DO THE BEST FOR ALL OF THE MERCHANTS HERE ON, HEY, IF, IF WHAT I DO BRINGS IN BUSINESS TO THESE MERCHANTS, GREAT.
UM, SO I'M JUST LOOKING FOR AN END RESULT THAT, TO COME FROM THIS, SO I CAN AT LEAST TAKE THE NEXT STEP IF THEY SAY, HEY, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT GONNA TEAR THIS PORTION OF THE BUILDING DECK.
OKAY, FINE, I'LL DEAL WITH THAT.
BUT I NEED TO HAVE AN ANSWER HERE SO I CAN MOVE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
UM, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS I'D LIKE TO ASK, ASK.
MAYBE YOU CAN ANSWER 'EM FOR ME.
IF YOU NEED TO SIT, PLEASE SIT.
UH, YOU KNOW, I'M BETTER STANDING BE ON.
UH, I, YOU SPOKE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE DONE ON THE FRONT FACADE OF THE BUILDING MM-HMM.
UM, I WAS KIND OF HOPING TO GET AN OVERALL, UH, JUST AN IDEA OF WHAT YOUR VISION, YOUR VISION IS.
AND IT SEEMS TO BE THAT IT'S KIND OF SHIFTING A LITTLE BIT.
WHAT CAN, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT I CAN DO.
IF I KNEW WHAT I, I COULD DO, AND I CAN GO TO THE, THE PIECES OF PAPER THAT SAY, YOU CAN DO THIS BY RIGHT.
AND YOU CAN GO UP TO THIS HEIGHT, AND ALL THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.
AND, UH, AND I SAID, WELL, GOSH, I COULD PUT A, A LOAD OF APARTMENTS IN HERE, AND THOSE APARTMENTS COULD BE, UH, AND DON'T LET ME SAY APARTMENTS.
I DON'T THINK APARTMENTS IS THE WAY I WANT WORD THIS BECAUSE OF THE, UH, THE PREVIOUS, PREVIOUS ORDINANCES THAT WERE OUT THERE, AND THE WAY ALL OF THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT.
I WANNA TALK ABOUT 600 FOOT DWELLINGS.
BUT IT'D BE SOMEBODY, SOMETHING THAT SOMEBODY COULD LIVE IN.
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MM-HMM.AND MY INITIAL THOUGHT WAS THAT I WAS GONNA, UH, KIND OF CATER TO, UH, A, UH, YOUNG, UH, PROFESSIONAL.
AND THEY'RE NOT ALSO GETTING INTO THE MODE THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE OVER 55 THAT LET'S SAY THEY LOSE A SPOUSE, OR, AND I SAY OVER 55, I WAS JUST SAYING, OKAY, IF I'M MAKE IT A 55 AND OLDER FULL OF SETUP IN THERE, LET'S SAY THEY LOST A SPOUSE AND THEY'RE, I DON'T WANT TO GR MOW GRASS ANYMORE.
THIS MIGHT BE A GREAT PLACE TO COME.
AND, I MEAN, HAVE THE CONCIERGE TO DO ALL THE THINGS THAT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO, TO RUN THE APARTMENT OR THE, THE DWELLING UNIT, UH, APPROPRIATELY.
UM, AND, UH, TO THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE AND ALSO TO THE COMMUNITY.
DURING THAT PROCESS, I'M SITTING HERE SAYING, WELL, OKAY, IF THAT'S THE CASE AND I'M GONNA GET THIS THING AND HAPPENED TO GET IT UP TO GO TO 60 FOOT, THEN THAT LEAVES A WHOLE FLOOR THERE THAT SAYS, OKAY, WE COULD LOOK OUT OVER THIS TOWN.
NOW, I DON'T, I HAVEN'T BEEN UP TO 60 FOOT, SO I DON'T REALLY, I COULD, I GUESS I COULD GET ME A TR AND SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, BUT VIEW IS A BIG ITEM AROUND HERE.
WE, EVERYBODY'S COMING TO SKYLAND TO SEE SKYLINE DRIVE.
IT'S A, IF IT MAY BE JUST A TERRIBLE VIEW OF ALL THE, THE ROOFTOPS IN THIS AREA, I DON'T KNOW.
BUT THE THOUGHT WAS IS THAT IF THAT ROOF WAS THERE THAT I COULD HIT, IT WAS A FLAT ROOF, THEN I COULD UTILIZE THAT AS A, UH, YOU CENTER FOR THE PUBLIC TO COME UP THROUGH THIS THING AND, UH, YOU KNOW, TO, TO, TO VIEW FROM DIFFERENT PLACES I COULD PICTURES.
HOW MANY IDEAS WOULD YOU LIKE SURE.
WHAT, UM, WE'RE GOING TO KIND OF FOCUS THIS MEETING ON THE DEMOLITION QUESTION.
WHAT WE KIND, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE AFTER HERE.
WHY WOULD I DO THAT? THAT'S, YEAH.
WELL, LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, PHOTOS FROM 1993 IN THIS REPORT, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS DOWNSPOUTS IN PLACE, GUTTERS IN PLACE.
THOSE ARE HAVE SINCE LONG ROTTED OFF, WE GOT WATER AND DRUSE AND PROBLEMS. ABSOLUTELY.
TERRACOTTA TILES COMING APART AT THE SEAMS. YEAH.
HAVE YOU BROUGHT IN A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER AT THIS POINT IN TIME? NOT UNTIL I KNOW WHERE, WHAT I HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF DOING.
IF IT'S, IF IT'S, IF, IF IT'S A HISTORIC THING HERE, THEN I HAVE TO LOOK AT IT IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ANGLE.
I'VE GOTTA LOOK AT IT FROM THE, AND SAY, OKAY, WELL, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING.
HOW DO I PRESERVE THIS PORTION OF IT? WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS I'M TRYING TO PRESERVE THE MOST IMPORTANT PORTION OF THIS, THIS BUILDING, AND THAT'S THAT SIDE WALL OF THAT CHURCH.
AND I CAN TAKE THE BRICK FROM, THEY'RE IN A VARIETY OF PLACES, UH, ON THE, EVEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU'D NEVER, EVER SEE IT.
AND, AND MAKE THOSE WINDOWS AND ALL THE, THEY'VE MAKE DOORS.
I COULD MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT DID WHEN BACK IN THE DAY.
THAT'S UTILIZING THE SAME BRICK.
BUT I THINK WHAT THE, A POINT WE'RE MISSING HERE IS THE TERRACOTTA SECTION OF THE BUILDING HAS ITS OWN SIGNIFICANCE.
I THINK, UM, WE, AS A, AS THE REVIEW BOARD, IT'S OUR DUTY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE EXHAUSTED ALL EFFORTS, UH, BEFORE WE JUSTIFY A DEMOLITION OF A HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT BUILDING IN THIS TOWN.
SO THAT'S WHY I, I WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT, UH, STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS REPORT OR ANY KIND OF A COST ANALYSIS BETWEEN RESTORATION VERSUS DEMOLITION.
IF, IF, IF THAT'S WHAT THIS BOARD IS HERE FOR.
FROM MY PERCEPTION OF IT IS THAT YOU WERE TO LOOK AT AND SAY, HEY, IT, IT IS NOT HISTORICALLY, UH, SIGNIFICANT THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S GONNA BE STANDING FOR THE NEXT 30 YEARS.
I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, IT'LL BE STANDING FOR THE NEXT MONTH OR SO,
I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE MY MONEY AND PUT IN IT TO SAY, OKAY, GOSH, WHEN IS THIS THING GONNA FALL DOWN? NO, I'M NOT GONNA DO IT UNTIL I KNOW WHERE I'M GOING.
I'M NOT GONNA, YOU DEFINITELY DON'T WANT IT FALL DOWN.
ESPECIALLY NOT ON, I DON'T EITHER.
BUT THAT'S HAVING MORE INFORMATION WOULD BE HELPFUL.
BUT I MEAN, I, I, I, I RUN THE, I STILL HAVE THE SCENARIO THAT SAYS, OKAY, WHAT CAN I DO HERE? WHAT HAVE I DONE? HOW MUCH MONEY HAVE I PUT INTO THIS THING? WHERE DO I WANT TO BE? UM HMM.
NO, I THINK I'LL JUST SELL IT.
ONE OF THE THINGS I SEE WITH THAT WHOLE SCENARIO SAYS THAT I'M HERE TO WORK WITH THE TOWN MM-HMM.
[00:20:01]
I CAN FOR THE, FOR THE BENEFIT OF THIS TOWN.THE NEXT GUY IN LINE BEHIND ME, HE DOESN'T CARE.
AND I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT YOU ARE.
UM, HAVE YOU, WHEN YOU BOUGHT THIS BUILDING, UM, WAS IT YOUR VISION INITIALLY TO SAY, OKAY, THIS SECTION'S GONNA COME DOWN, WE'RE GONNA PUT IN SOME DWELLINGS, OR WAS THERE EVER ANY CONSIDERATION TO SAY, HEY, MAYBE WE COULD STABILIZE THIS PORTION OF THE BUILDING AND, AND UTILIZE IT? NO.
IN ANY WAY AT THAT POINT IN TIME, UH, I BOUGHT THE BUILDING.
UH, I WAS PAYING RENT DOWN ON, UH, CHESTER STREET, AND I HAD A GOVERNMENT CONTRACTING BUSINESS.
AND, UH, UH, I WANTED TO STAY IN THE HUB ZONE, BUT I DIDN'T WANNA PAY THE, THE RENT.
I SAID, YOU KNOW, I CAN BUY THIS BUILDING, BUILDING AND AT A REASONABLE PRICE.
AND I SAID, OKAY, UH, I'LL UTILIZE IT AND, AND, UH, I'LL DO WHAT I CAN AND, AND THE BUSINESS WILL GROW.
AND, AND, AND THEN I MAY VERY WELL TAKE THE NECESSARY RESOURCES IT TAKES TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M HERE.
UM, MY MAIN FOCUS, WHEN I BOUGHT THE BUSINESS TO STOP PAYING RENT.
BUT ONCE I GOT THERE, UH, AND, AND I MOVED THE BUSINESS OUT, IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO EVEN OWN IT ANYMORE.
AND, UH, I MEAN, I'M SURE THAT I COULD PROBABLY GET ANOTHER OFFER YES, TOO.
YOU WANT ME TO GET OVER AND SELL IT? IT'S YOU'RE PREROGATIVE, SIR.
I'M, I'M JUST ASKING THAT IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TELLING ME DO IS PLEASE DO.
BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
NO, I'D LOVE TO SEE THAT BUILDING STAND THERE FOR THE NEXT 70 YEARS.
DID I ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS? I THINK SO.
TODAY, YES, WE WERE RESEARCHING THIS TERRACOTTA TILE.
THOSE WERE MEANT TO BE LIKE A SUBSTRATE MATERIAL.
THEY WERE NOT MEANT TO BE THE FINAL EXTERIOR.
AND THEY ARE NOT SUITED TO BE LIKE THE ONLY EXTERIOR MATERIAL.
THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU'RE SEEING.
EVENTUALLY, THESE COULD BECOME PROPERTY MAINTENANCE ISSUES, WHICH WE WOULD SEE IN THE FUTURE.
TYPICALLY, THOSE BLOCKS WERE USED KIND OF LIKE CINDER BLOCKS ARE TODAY.
YOU'D EITHER PUT A RENDERING, LIKE A STUCCO COATING OR A BRICK VENEER OR A STONE VENEER, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OVER TOP OF THEM.
UM, SO I THINK IT WAS JUST A, A COST THING.
WHEN THAT PORTION OF THE BUILDING WAS CONSTRUCTED, THEY SAID, WE'VE GOT X AMOUNT OF DOLLARS, WE'RE GONNA USE THIS AND NOT FINISH IT ALL THE WAY, AND MAYBE DOWN THE ROAD WE'LL PUT STUCCO ON IT OR SOMETHING.
SO A HUNDRED YEARS LATER, RIGHT HERE WE ARE.
SO, BUT I GUESS, UH, WHERE I RAMBLE ON ANYMORE, WE SHOULD OPEN THIS UP, UM, TO OUR PEOPLE THAT HAVE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK.
UM, SO I GUESS WE'VE GOT, FIRST ON THE LIST IS KEITH, WILL YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE? MY NAME IS KEITH MENIFEE.
WE'RE HAVE ONE 20 A EAST MAIN STREET DOWN HOME COMFORT BAKERY.
I DO A LOT OF HISTORY OF FRONT ROYAL, ESPECIALLY DOWNTOWN.
MY MOTHER HAD TWO RESTAURANTS.
I WAS LIVING ON MAIN STREET WHEN THEY BURNED THE BLACKBURN.
SO I LOVE THE HISTORY OF FRONT ROYAL.
I LOVE THE HISTORY OF MAIN STREET.
AND ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU ANSWERED, AND THIS BOARD IS ANSWERED SUPPOSEDLY, AND I, AND HOPEFULLY WE, WE'VE MAINTAINED THAT IS THE STRUCTURE IN THE FRONT MAIN IS MAINTAINED.
THAT WAS THE MURPHY THEATER THAT WAS PART OF THE, THE CHURCH AND EVERYTHING.
THE WINDOWS ON THE SECOND FLOOR CAME OUTTA THAT CHURCH.
IT'S STILL A STRUCTURALLY SOUND BUILDING OUT THERE.
IT'S STILL, SHE'S, SHE'S A GREAT, YOU KNOW,
MY NEXT QUESTION IS, WHAT IS, IF IT IS ALLOWED THAT YOU TAKE DOWN THE TERRACOTTA PLACE, WHAT IS IS GONNA BE THE BUILDING MATERIAL BACK THERE? CAUSE I'VE HEARD SEA TANKERS, METAL BOXES, YOU KNOW, FOUR STORIES HIGH, SO MANY WIDE.
THAT WHAT WENT TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL WOULD BE LOOKING FOR.
THAT IS, YOU ALL SAID IS A BUSINESS DISTRICT.
YOU KNOW, WE SAW MANASSAS RUINED THEIR DOWNTOWN BY, BY URBAN SPRAWL AND GROVE.
I DON'T WANNA SEE MAIN STREET DOWN THAT WAY.
SO, AND THE NEXT, MY NEXT BIG QUESTION IS, AS A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE STATED, IS PARKING THOSE LOTS IN BEHIND THERE, BELONG TO OTHER BUILDINGS.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA ALLOW THAT TO BE PARKED UP.
MY MAIN CONCERN IS, AND AS A MERCHANT ON MAIN STREET FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS NOW, THE, THE TOWN POLICE HAVE TOLD US MANY, MANY TIMES, THEY CAN'T ENFORCE THE PARKING ON ME.
THEY CAN'T CHALK TIRES, THEY CAN'T WRITE
[00:25:01]
TICKETS.SO I'M GONNA SAY THIS, IF THERE IS NO PARKING FOR THESE RESIDENTS, THEY'RE GONNA PARK ON MAIN STREET.
WE HAVE 17 SPOTS ON MAIN STREET.
THEY'RE GONNA BE TAKING UP 24 HOURS A DAY.
WHEN MY WIFE AND I COME IN EARLY STREET SWEEPERS OUT THERE.
IF HE CAN'T SWEEP, UH, SWEEP THAT STREET, IT'S GONNA LOOK FILTHY.
IT'S GONNA HAVE LEAVES PILING UP IN THE GUTTERS, THE STORM SEWERS, WHICH IS GOING TO FLOOD MAINSTREAM.
WE CAN'T ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.
SO I, I ASKED YOU TO CONSIDER THE WHOLE PACKAGE.
WHAT CAN BE DONE TO THE, I AGREE WITH YOU, A LOT OF THINGS YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT CAN BE DONE BETTER, BUT IT CAN BE LOOKING AESTHETICALLY TO PLEASING TO EVERYBODY.
AND LIKE I SAY, MY BIG THING IS PLEASE DON'T TAKE, TAKE DOWN THE FRONT.
I MEAN, I'VE SEEN TOO MANY BUILDINGS THAT HAVE BEEN LEVELED AND DROPPED.
NOW WE'RE PUT TO THE POINT, LIKE THE WARREN PAINT SUPPLY, IT'S BEING FIXED BACK UP.
THERE ARE SOME BUILDINGS CLEAR BACK TO THE 18 HUNDREDS THAT CAN BE SALVAGED.
SO THAT'S ALL I'VE GOT TO SAY TONIGHT.
I, I'VE DROPPED AT SOME OF THE, WHEN IT WAS THE POST OFFICE AND EVERYTHING.
JUST LIKE TO REMIND EVERYBODY THAT IF WE CAN KEEP IT, UH, WE'D LIKE TO KEEP TO THREE MINUTES.
CAUSE WE'VE GOT QUITE A FEW PEOPLE.
I'M THE, UH, STORE MANAGER HERE AT SCHULS HOME.
SO I'M REPRESENTING THEIR INTEREST, IF YOU WILL.
UH, OUR BIGGEST CONCERN THERE IS GONNA BE, UH, THE SAFETY, THE MAINTENANCE.
I MEAN, IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO OUR, OUR BUILDING THERE.
I MEAN, YOU CAN, YOU CAN SEE IT'S VERY WEATHER AND THEN IT, IT IS SCARY SOMETIMES.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT CAN ALMOST COME DOWN.
UH, YOU KNOW, THE MAINTENANCE THERE, HOW IT AFFECTS OUR BUILDING, UH, AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAVING SOME OF OUR OWN ISSUES WITH LEAKS AND ALL THAT.
AND FROM GROWTH AND THINGS COMING OFF, YOU KNOW, FROM THAT BUILDING AND, AND WHATNOT.
UM, I GUESS THE OTHER CONCERN'S GONNA BE, UH, YOU KNOW, DOWN THE ROAD, YOU KNOW, WOULD BE THE PARKING AND WOULD BE OUR ACCESS TO THE BACK THERE.
I KNOW WE'VE BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME.
MOST OF OUR LONGTIME CUSTOMERS USE THAT BACK LOT.
UH, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN, YOU KNOW, TO THAT BACK LOT, WHAT KIND OF ACCESS WE'RE GET GONNA GET, WE HAVE TO DO OUR SAMPLING FROM THAT BACK LOT.
YOU KNOW, I CAN'T REALLY DRIVE A BIG OLD BOX TRUCK AND, YOU KNOW, THE FRONT OF MAIN STREET AND, YOU KNOW, BLOCK THAT OFF AND UNLOAD, YOU KNOW, FURNITURE.
SO, UH, THE PARKING IS, IS A BIG CONCERN.
AND, UH, THE MAINTENANCE AND, YOU KNOW, WHILE THE CONSTRUCTION'S GOING ON, OUR ABILITY TO GET, YOU KNOW, TO AND FROM
THAT'S ALL I WANTED TO SAY, AND I'M JUST INTERESTED IN HEARING HOW THINGS PLAY OUT.
YOU RIGHT TO YOU? OKAY, MR. WILLIAM.
I LIVE AT 1115 BUCK MOUNTAIN ROAD.
I, UH, HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH GARY ON THIS FOR PROBABLY CLOSE TO THREE AND A HALF YEARS.
AND, UH, HE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY ON IT, AND WE'VE GOTTEN ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE.
WE'VE BEEN THROUGH A NUMBER OF TOWN MANAGERS, A NUMBER OF PLANNERS, AND A BUNCH OF OTHER, UH, THINGS.
IT'S EVER CHANGING AND, AND YOU JUST CAN'T GET IT NAILED DOWN.
THAT'S WHY WE WANT TO GET A STARTING POINT SO WE CAN ACTUALLY GET SOMETHING ACCOMPLISHED.
IN MY BACKGROUND, UM, I STARTED IN 1983, RESTORING HOUSES ON CHESTER STREET, BUT CHESTER STREET WAS ONE OF THE MOST RUNDOWN STREETS IN TOWN.
THE SIDEWALKS BUCKLETON, UH, UH, PHONE AND ELECTRIC LINE SAGGED DOWN, SO YOU COULD ALMOST TOUCH 'EM.
AND, AND THERE WAS ABOUT SEVEN OR EIGHT VACANT BUILDINGS ON CHESTER STREET BACK THEN.
IT HAD BEEN MADE A HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT EVERY, BUT, AND SO THE ONES LEFT THERE.
THE FIRST ONE I RESTORED WAS 50 CHESTER STREET.
AND IT HAD, UH, AND I LIVED THERE AND IT WAS, UH, IT HAD AN OVEN TUBE WIRING.
IT HAD THE PORCHES WERE FALLING DOWN THE ROOF, THE CHIMNEYS WERE FALLING DOWN.
IT HADN'T BEEN PAINTED SINCE BEFORE WORLD WAR II, AND IT HAD A BUCKET OF DAY COAL WATER HEATER AND STUFF.
SO I'VE RESTORED SEVEN BUILDINGS ON CHESTER STREET AGING FROM 1780 TO 1882 ON THAT STREET.
AND I'VE DONE TWO OTHER BUILDINGS IN TOWN RESTORED.
SO I LOVE RESTORATION, LOVE FRONT, ROYAL AND EVERYTHING.
AND, AND, UH, AND GARY AND I HAVE HAD MANY TALKS ABOUT WHAT WE WANT TO DO WITH THIS BUILDING, MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
BUT WE'VE RUN INTO ROADBLOCKS EVERY BIT AROUND THE WAY.
SO WE DECIDED TO TAKE IT ONE STEP AT A TIME AND EVERYTHING TO, BECAUSE IF WE CAN'T DO THIS, THEN WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING ELSE.
THE BUILDING, THE PART THAT'S IN QUESTION IS A 75 FOOT TALL TERRACOTTA
[00:30:01]
BUILDING, 38 BY 38 AND EMPTY RIGHT UP TO THE CEILING.OKAY? IT'S A PROP TOWER THAT THEY LOWERED THE PROPS DOWN WHEN IT WAS A VOLVO BUILT THEATER.
SO IT'S FUNCTIONALLY OBSOLETE.
AND I DO COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL REAL ESTATE.
I'VE SOLD 12 OF THE BUILDINGS HERE ON MAIN STREET IN THE LAST SEVEN YEARS.
SO, UH, AND SO, UH, I, UH, SO, YOU KNOW, I REAL, I KNOW ABOUT REAL ESTATE AND BUILDINGS AND STUFF, AND THE BUILDING, THAT SECTION OF THE BUILDING IS FUNCTIONING OBSOLETE.
THE FRONT PART OF THE BUILDING IS GORGEOUS.
AND EVERYTHING, THAT BUILDING HAS BEEN CHANGED SINCE IT WAS BUILT.
ABOUT EVERY 20 YEARS IT HAS HAD AN ADDITION OR A DELETION, OR IT'S BEEN CHANGED IN SOME WAY.
IT'S BEEN, IT'S HAD BEEN REPURPOSED AT A DIFFERENT USE.
IT'S NOT YOUR TYPICAL HISTORIC BILLING.
UH, AND SO, AND IT'S BEEN USED FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS AND WE SEE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE, TO HAVE SOMETHING REALLY NICE THERE.
AND SO WHAT WE'RE HERE TODAY IS FIND OUT IF, IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN MOVE FORWARD, WE HAVE TO GO TO PLAN B.
I AM SUZANNES 2 95 WEST MAIN STREET, AND I WAS THE OWNER OF THE BUILDING IN THE SEVENTIES AND EIGHTIES.
UM, THE FIRST TIME I WENT IN THE BUILDING, IT WAS TO THE BASEMENT.
AND I WENT IN THE STEPS DOWNSTAIRS TO THE DIRT PARK AND I SAID, I FRANKIE, DO YOU HAVE A FLASHLIGHT
AND I TURNED THE ELECTRIC LIGHT TURNED ON THEN.
AND I SAID, WELL, I'M LOOKING FOR SOMETHING.
I WAS LOOKING FOR BONES BECAUSE THAT PART HAD BEEN THE CEMETERY AND MRS. ASSUMPTION DID NOT GET MOVED.
SO SHE'S STILL UNDER THE MURPHY THEATER.
IF IT IS A MONEY EATER, IT JUST, WHEN YOU GET $2, IT SAYS, I WANT $3.
UM, THE BRICK PART HELD THE WARREN PRESS UPSTAIRS, THE BRICK, AND THAT'S SOLID.
UH, COLONEL MURPHY BUILT THAT BUILDING AND IT WAS A VAUDEVILLE THEATER.
I HAVE THE DRESSING ROOMS AND I HAVE THE POST OFFICE BOXES.
AND IT, HE WAS, UH, AWARD-WINNING GOLD, GOLD MEDAL FROM THE UNION ARMY.
AND HE JOINED AT EIGHT OR NINE.
HIS PARENTS LET HIM GO INTO THE ARMY AND HE WAS TO BE A MUSICIAN.
AND HE WON THE GOLD STAR MEDAL AT THE BATTLE OF ATLANTA.
HE CAME TO A GENERAL AND MOVED THE TROOPS.
BUT THAT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE.
IF IT'S DETERIORATING, I WOULD REQUEST THAT YOU LOOK FOR MRS. ASSUMPTION
IF I KNOW MRS. MRS, WHOEVER SHE IS, IS DOWN THERE, THEN I WOULD BE ABLE FIND, I DON'T THINK THAT THEY MOVED ALL THE BODIES.
[00:35:01]
THINK THAT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, IF YOUR FAMILY ACTUALLY OWNED IT, THAT THAT WOULD'VE BEEN, UH, UH, PORTRAYED FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT TO THE NEXT OWNER, RIGHT.THAT THERE ARE BODIES UNDERNEATH THERE THAT WASN'T TAKEN.
AND THEN WE DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY GUYS, LET'S MOVE THIS ON A LITTLE BIT.
THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP.
I LIVE, UH, ON PROSPECT STREET IN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND I OWN THE BUILDING AT 23 CHURCH STREET, AND I ALSO WORK THERE.
UM, THERE'S A, THERE ARE GONNA BE A LOT, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE TONIGHT THAT TALK ABOUT A LOT OF REASONS THAT THIS WHOLE PROJECT IS A BAD IDEA.
AND SO WHEN I STARTED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT I WANTED TO SAY, AND THAT THEIR REASON THAT WE'RE HERE TONIGHT IS SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE DEMOLITION AND NOT REALLY ANYTHING ELSE.
UH, I HAVE LIKE FOUR OR FIVE PIECES OF PAPER THAT JUST WENT EVERYWHERE.
THE MURPHY THEATER BUILDING HAS BEEN BRINGING PEOPLE AND OUR COMMUNITY TOGETHER SINCE THE 18 HUNDREDS.
FOLKS WHO'VE WORSHIPED THERE, THEY HAVE GONE AND CU SHOW WITH THEIR BUDDIES AT THAT BUILDING.
UM, THEY'VE GONE TO PICK UP THEIR MAIL FROM THEIR LOVED ONES IN THE FRONT PART OF THAT BUILDING.
THEY'VE GOTTEN THEIR NEWS OUT OF THE BACK PART OF THE BUILDING.
THEY'VE EATEN LUNCH WITH THEIR FRIENDS, THEY'VE HAD COFFEE.
I MEAN, SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS THAT I'M SURE I'VE ONLY BEEN HERE FOR 12 YEARS.
SO PROBABLY MANY OTHER THINGS THAT I DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT AND I MAYBE DON'T WANNA KNOW ABOUT HAPPENED IN THAT BUILDING.
AND I LOOK AROUND THE ROOM TONIGHT, AND IT'S OVER A HUNDRED YEARS LATER.
AND HERE WE ALL ARE IN THIS ROOM AS A COMMUNITY, STILL TALKING ABOUT THE MURPHY THEATER BUILDING.
SO I FEEL LIKE STORIES ARE WHAT BRINGS A COMMUNITY TOGETHER.
HISTORY IS WHAT, UM, BRINGS A COMMUNITY TOGETHER.
HISTORY HELPS US TO BUILD CIVIC PRIDE.
IF WE KNOW WHERE WE CAME FROM AND WE KNOW WHERE WE'RE GOING, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT.
WE'VE JUST TALKED A LOT ABOUT IT.
AND I FEEL LIKE CIVIC PRIDE IS WHAT MAKES A TOWN OUR HOME.
SO GIVEN THAT ALL THAT HISTORY HAS TAKEN PLACE THERE, I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT.
I DON'T REALLY KNOW MUCH ABOUT ARCHITECTURE AT ALL.
UM, BASED ON JUST A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH THAT I'VE DONE, IT PROBABLY ISN'T ARCHITECTURALLY SOUND ENOUGH TO PUT, UH, A BUNCH OF DWELLING UNITS IN WASN'T EVER DESIGNED TO DO THAT.
BUT I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT THAT MEANS IT ISN'T STRUCTURALLY SOUND ENOUGH TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT.
AND TEARING IT DOWN, UM, IS THE ONLY OPTION THAT WE HAVE.
I, UH, I DID A BUNCH OF ONLINE RESEARCH JUST ABOUT THE HISTORY OF IT, AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS INTERESTING FROM A WEBSITE CALLED LIVING PLACES.COM.
THIS ORGANIZATION DID SOME RESEARCH AND SAID, THE MOST PROMINENT EXAMPLE OF HISTORIC ADAPTIVE REUSE IS THE FORMER FRONT ROYAL METHODIST CHURCH AT 1 31 EAST MAIN STREET.
SO SOMEBODY OUTSIDE OF OUR COMMUNITY RECOGNIZES ALL THE DIFFERENT PIECES OF THAT BUILDING AND HOW IT HAS BEEN CHANGED OVER TIME AND THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE THAT IS THERE.
SO, UM, I THINK IF WE TAKE DOWN HALF OF HER, THEN WE'VE LOST OUR MURPHY THEATER BUILDING AND WITH IT, A BIG PART OF HISTORY IN OUR COMMUNITY.
I GOTTA LEAN ON YOU TO GET UP.
THE, I LIVE AT 400 EAST JACKSON, AND, UH, I THINK I PROBABLY JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION.
IF THIS DOOR IS OPEN FOR TRAIN CARS, HOW MANY OTHER LANDLORDS PROPERTY OWNERS ON MAIN STREET WILL BE ALLOWED TO PUT TRAIN CARS ON THEIR PROPERTY? I OWN A THREE STORY BUILDING ON MAIN STREET WITH EXCESS LAND.
HOW MANY WILL YOU LET ME, I DON'T EXPECT AN ANSWER TONIGHT.
ZAKA JUST SAYS HIS DAD'S PAINT STORE, AND I BELIEVE ONE OF THE POS BOUGHT IT.
HE HAS LAND ALL THE WAY TO JACKSON STREET.
HOW MANY WENT AND HAD FRONT ON TWO STRAITS? SO THEY HAVE ACCESS.
WHAT ABOUT THE LITTLE MARKET OVER BY LDS? WILL THEY BE ALLOWED TO TEAR DOWN THAT LITTLE FREESTANDING DWELLING UNIT? I PUT YOUR TRAIN CARS THERE.
OR WHAT ABOUT THE TWO VICTORIAN HOUSES
[00:40:01]
JUST PAST THE, UM, LAUNDROMAT.THEIR PROPERTY GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO JACKSON AND THEY HAVE TWO LOTS CURRENTLY THEY RENT ROOMS, SO I DON'T KNOW THEM.
I CANNOT SPEAK FOR THEM, BUT THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THEY'D BE LOOKING FOR SOME SMALL UNITS.
HOW MANY COULD THEY PUT THERE? SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.
BILL, DO YOU WANNA REMIND? MY NAME IS PHIL FOSTER.
UH, WE LIVE ACROSS THE STREET AT ONE 30 EAST MAIN STREET.
I'VE HAD THE PLEASURE OF, UH, OF LOOKING ACROSS THE STREET AT THIS BUILDING FOR SOME 30 SOME YEARS.
PART OF THAT TIME WHEN SUZANNE WAS THERE, I JUST FOUND OUT MY GREAT-GREAT-GRANDMOTHER ME, BIG AREA ON THE FLOOR
SO I, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I'M HAPPY OR EX OR, OR OR CONCERNED HERE, BUT, BUT PART OF THE STORY I WANT TO TELL ABOUT THIS, AND, AND THEN I'LL SUM IT UP AT THE END OF IT, IS, UH, I MIGHT GET EMOTIONAL.
SO, UH, IN THE 1930S, MY GRANDFATHER MOVED HERE, BRETT FOSTER SENIOR, UM, TO BE WITH THE CCC CAMPS.
AND, UH, HE CAME, HE, HE WAS A FITNESS STRUCTURE AT FORT D***S, BEEN THE CCC CAMPS IN, UH, NEW JERSEY.
THEY NEEDED A FITNESS STRUCTURE HERE.
HE WAS A FORMER GOLDEN GLOVE AND, UH, AMATEUR BOXER UNTIL HE BROKE HIS NOSE AND DECIDED THAT HURT TOO MUCH.
HE DIDN'T WANNA DO IT EVER AGAIN.
UH, SO, BUT HE, HE ENDED UP HERE IN FRONT ROW TEACHING, UH, TEACHING THE, UM, PHYSICAL EDUCATION PART OF THE CCC CAMPS.
ONE NIGHT AT THE MURPHY THEATER, THEY HAD A, UH, TOWN SHOW.
AND, AND MY GRANDFATHER COMPETED IN THE TALENT SHOW AND A YANKEE FROM LONG ISLAND JOLES.
AND, UH, AND, AND PLACED IN THE TOP TWO OR THREE OF THE, OF THE CONTESTS FOR THOSE FAMILY HISTORY HAS IT.
BUT HE CALLED TO EYE OF DOROTHY ASSUMPTION, AND, UH, THAT'S WHERE MY GRANDPARENTS MET, AND THAT'S WHY I'M HERE BEFORE YOU TONIGHT.
UM, I WANT, I DON'T WANT TO SEE THE STRUCTURE O OVERLY CHANGED.
UM, IF THE WORST THING THAT HAPPENED, UM, IS, IS WE END UP WITH THIS DRAWING IT, IT'S NOT THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD.
UM, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE NUMBER OF UNITS.
I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE PARKING.
UM, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE, UH, THE PHYSICAL APPEAL OR THE, UH, AESTHETIC APPEAL OF IT.
I WOULD, I WOULD RATHER SEE ARCHED WINDOWS IN THE, IN THE WHOLE PROCESS.
I'D LOVE TO SEE HIS PARTNER WITH, UH, SALEK THEATERS OR, OR, OR THE FUTURE OWNERS, UH, PARTNER WITH SALE LA THEATERS AND PUT ON, UH, PLAYS THERE WITH A DINNER THEATER ON HIS TOP FLOOR.
BUT HE HAS A WHOLE, WHOLE LOT OF VISION AND NO ANSWERS FOR US TONIGHT.
SO I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE NOT ONLY PUTTING THE CART IN FRONT OF THE HORSE HERE BY DEMO DEMO DEMOLISHING PART OF THE BUILDING.
AND I UNDERSTAND THEIR FRUSTRATION.
I'VE DEALT WITH THE TOWN MANY TIMES, SO, SO I UNDERSTAND THEIR FRUSTRATION, BUT I DON'T WANT TO TEAR SOMETHING DOWN WITHOUT ANY GUARANTEES THAT WE'RE GONNA GET SOMETHING BUILT BACK.
WE'VE GUTTED THE TED IN OVER HERE AND WE SIT HERE AND LOOK AT AN EMPTY BUILDING FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS.
UH, I WANT MORE GUARANTEES BEFORE WE, BEFORE WE, UH, AGREE TO TEAR PART OF IT DOWN.
UM, AND IF I HAD TO MAKE A DECISION TONIGHT, IF I WAS IN Y'ALL'S POSITION, I'D VOTE TO EITHER TABLE, OR IF THEY PUSH THE QUESTION AND WANT AND WANT A YES OR A NO, I'D VOTE NO BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION.
UH, I'D LOVE TO SEE SOME MORE SPECIFICS WITH THEIR, WITH THEIR, THEIR PROPOSALS.
UM, BUT ALL I HEARD WERE A WHOLE LOT OF WOULDA, COULDA, SHOULD HAVE OR WERE IF'S.
AND, UH, THAT, THAT DOESN'T ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.
AND THEN I'LL SUM UP WITH, WITH THREE WORDS.
HELLO, I'M LEWIS MOTON, COACHING 3 11 32 CUSSLER ROAD.
I'VE BEEN HERE FIVE YEARS, BUT I SEE IT AS LIKE, IF IT COMES DOWN, HOW LONG ARE WE GONNA WAIT UNTIL SOMETHING COMES UP? WE KNOW HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET THINGS OFF THE GROUND.
UM, BUT WE ALSO HAVE THE OTHER PROBLEM WHERE IT SOUNDS LIKE THE ARE GONNA COME DOWN, WHETHER WE VOTE YES OR NO WITH WEATHER.
AND I DON'T REALLY HAVE AN ANSWER.
THIS IS JUST MY 2 CENTS OF WHAT I, WHAT'S GOING THROUGH MY MIND.
I LIKE TO SEE LIKE STOREFRONTS OR SOMETHING ON THE SIDE THERE.
I DON'T WANNA SEE SHIPPING CONTAINERS TOWERING OVER US.
AND SHIPPING CONTAINERS DO NOT REMIND ME OF THE TOWN THAT I WOULD BE PROUD OF.
I WANT SOMETHING TO LIKE SAY, HEY, COME DOWN, CHECK OUT MAIN STREET, CHECK OUT WHAT'S
[00:45:01]
HERE NOW.I RENT TO A ONE A AND 2 0 1 B EAST JACKSON STREET.
I RUN AN ALTERATION SHOP OUT OF THERE.
I ALTER AND SERVICE OUR LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, VIRGINIA STATE POLICE.
THEY DO LIKE THE FACT THAT THEY CAN PULL RIGHT UP TO MY DOOR, LEAVE THEIR CRUISER RUNNING IN CASE THEY HAVE TO RUN OUT ON A CALL.
SO I WORKED IN THAT BUILDING WHEN THE SILS OWNED IT.
UM, RIGHT WHERE THE TERRACOTTA FACADE STARTS.
UM, A VERY INTERESTING BUILDING ON THE INSIDE.
UM, IF THE TERRACOTTA FACADE IS THE PROBLEM, MY QUESTION IS WHY NOT RENOVATE IT IF IT IS FAILING? UM, SINCE IT IS A HISTORIC DISTRICT, I WOULD THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE LOOKED INTO.
UM, AND AS A BUSINESS OWNER, PARKING, PARKING IS ABSOLUTELY HO.
IT'S SAD WHEN A 90 YEAR OLD MAN HAS TO FIND A PARKING TO WALK A BLOCK TO MY BUILDING AND THERE'S NO ENFORCEMENT.
AND, AND THE POLICE WILL COME DOWN IF THEY BLOCK MY PARKING LOT.
BUT STILL, IT'S JUST HORRIBLE.
LIKE I SAID, I'VE BEEN ON MAIN STREET SINCE I WAS AT 4 0 5 EAST JACKSON, OR YES, EAST MAIN STREET BACK IN LITERAL EARLY NINETIES.
THAT BUILDING'S BEEN RENOVATED.
UM, I JUST HOPE THAT WE DON'T SEE A BUNCH OF APARTMENTS OR DWELLING BECAUSE IF YOU DO A 55 AND OVER COMMUNITY AND YOU HAVE A CONCIERGE AND EVERYTHING ELSE, WELL THEM EMPLOYEES HAVE TO HAVE PARKING PLACES ALSO.
SO THANK YOU ALL AND I HOPE THAT YOU REALLY CONSIDER THE OVERALL BUSINESS OWNERS WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ON THIS.
YOU THANK YOU VERY MUCH, NINA.
I'M THE CO-OWNER OF CNC FROZEN TREATS.
MY, MY, I KNOW THAT Y'ALL ARE JUST ADDRESSING THE DEMOLITION PORTION OF THIS.
UH, HOWEVER, UM, WE, WE, AS, AS A BUSINESS OWNER, UH, AND A PROPERTY OWNER ON MAIN STREET ARE CONCERNED, I'M CONCERNED WITH, UH, IF THE STUDIES HAVE BEEN DONE FOR IF, UH, 60 DWELLING, UH, APARTMENT COMPLEX TO GO UP.
IF THE CURRENT WATER CAN BE THAT, THAT THE PIPES CAN HANDLE THAT MUCH WATER, CAN THE, CAN THE ELECTRICITY HANDLE THAT MUCH USAGE? UH, BECAUSE BEING ON 4 0 9, I CAN TELL YOU WE HAVE OUTAGES RIGHT NOW.
SO IF WE'RE GOING TO INCREASE THE USAGE ON MAIN STREET, UH, WHICH IS THE POSSIBILITY, UM, THEN I'M THEN WORRIED ABOUT IF, IF THOSE STUDIES OR CONCERNS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED.
UM, IT IS A BEAUTIFUL BUILDING.
UH, THE AA MEETINGS ARE HELD THERE.
I CAN TELL YOU I'M A, UH, FIRM, UH, GRATEFUL THAT THEY'RE THERE, GRATEFUL THAT THEY'RE SO CLOSE, GRATEFUL THAT THEY'RE TWICE A DAY, UH, BECAUSE THERE'S, WE HAVE ONE THIRD OF OUR POPULATION HERE IN WARREN COUNTY ARE RECOVERING ADDICTS OR ADDICTS.
AND SO THOSE, THOSE THINGS ARE NEEDED.
AND I'M SO GRATEFUL THAT IT IS RIGHT HERE ON MAIN STREET SO THAT PEOPLE, UH, CLOSE ARE ABLE TO ATTEND THOSE MEETINGS.
NAME IS WILLIAM HUCK CSA FROZEN TREATS.
UH, MOVED HERE SEVEN YEARS AGO, AND WHEN I MOVED TO TOWN, I RENTED MY BUILDING AND RENTING, RENTING MY BUILDING.
I SAW WHAT NEEDED TO BE DONE TO IT, SO I STARTED FIXING IT.
I DIDN'T GO TO MY LANDLORD AND ASK HER TO FIX IT.
SO THEN WE WERE ABLE TO PURCHASE THE BUILDING.
SO WHAT HAVE WE DONE SINCE WE PURCHASED THE BUILDING, BUT HAVE PUT OUR HARD-EARNED MONEY BACK INTO OUR BUILDING TO NOT ONLY PROVIDE US A FUTURE, BUT TO PROVIDE A FUTURE FOR THOSE THAT COME PAST US AND AFTER US.
I'M NOT SURE HOW LONG WE'VE OWNED IT, BUT I WANTED TO DO SOME STUFF.
I'M A HALF INCH IN THE FLOODPLAIN.
I'VE WATCHED A BUILDING NEXT DOOR TO ME
[00:50:01]
DETERIORATE TO WHERE IT'S FALLEN PIECES ON CUSTOMERS OF MINE DURING, DURING FUNCTIONS.THEY ARE REHABILITATING THAT BUILDING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER CAME IN AND SAID, YES, THIS CAN BE SALVAGED AND IT CAN BE REPURPOSED.
SO WITHOUT THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER STANDING HERE SAYING, THIS PORTION IS DONE, I'D SAY NO DEMOLITION RIGHT NOW.
I ALSO FALL ON THE FENCE OF IT'S YOUR PROPERTY.
I AGREE THAT YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT WITH YOUR PROPERTY.
I, I FOUGHT THAT ISSUE A FEW TIMES IN THE PAST TOO.
BUT WHAT YOU DO TO YOUR PROPERTY HAS TO BETTER YOU HAS TO BETTER YOUR PROPERTY.
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT HAS TO BETTER THE SENSE OF OUR COMMUNITY.
DON'T TEAR THINGS DOWN JUST TO TEAR THINGS DOWN.
DON'T THROW IT AWAY BECAUSE YOU THINK IT'S USELESS, BECAUSE WHAT YOU SEE IS USELESS.
SOMEBODY ELSE SEES AS PRECIOUS AND IT MOVES DOWN TO DO SOMETHING.
SO I SAY, LET'S LOOK AT THE ENTIRE PICTURE FOR WHAT THE ENTIRE PICTURE IS AND GO THAT WAY.
DAVID TYK, 1 65 HICKERSON HOLLOW ROAD, FRONT ROYAL VIRGINIA HUNTER ROAD TWO 70 OR BENEFICIARY OF TWO 17 MAIN STREET.
UM, OUR FAMILY GOT THE PROPERTY IN THE SEVENTIES.
I THINK WE SOLD IT AROUND CIRCA 90, UH, TWO TO A GENTLEMAN BY THE NAME OF TONY GALLARDO.
AND THEN IT WENT INTO A STATE OF DETERIORATION, WHICH YOU GOT AND HAD TO DO A LOT OF REPAIRS FOR.
UM, THE STRUCTURE THAT IT SEEMS TO BE THE CENTER OF FOCUS, THE TERRACOTTA PART.
I DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL SITTING HERE TONIGHT THAT THAT TILE, THE TERRA TERRACOTTA TILE WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE AN EXTERIOR ELEMENT OR FEATURE.
BUT TERRACOTTA DOES LAST A WHILE, BUT YOU ALSO KNOW IN TOWN OF FRONT ROW EXPERIENCE, TERRACOTTA WATER PIPES AND WATER LINES FINALLY GIVE UP.
SO THAT'S, THAT, THAT'S THE CHEMISTRY OF THE TERRACOTTA.
AND IT THAT CAN'T BE UNDONE OR UNFIXED OR FIXED.
AND IF IT WAS EXPOSED TO THE ILLNESS, THAT'S A PROBLEM.
MY FATHER'S PROBLEM WITH WHAT HE HAD TO DO IN THAT BUILDING FOR WHAT WAS THE BEAUTY SALON OR MILLING WAS.
AND IT'S NOW THE AA BUILDING IS A BUILDING WITHIN A BUILDING COMPLETELY, UH, DEAD FRAMED OUT A SEPARATE STRUCTURE INSIDE THAT BUILDING BECAUSE THOSE EXTERIOR WALLS, FRANKLY, AREN'T DESIGNED TO CARRY ANY WEIGHT IN THE MIDDLE.
AND THAT'S WHAT YOUR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WOULD PROBABLY TELL YOU IF YOU HAD IT.
UM, THE, TO ADDRESS YOUR ISSUE TO MY MOTHER, THERE'S NO DUTY TO ADVISE ANY SUBSEQUENT OWNER OF BODIES UNDER THE BUILDING WHEN THE BUILDING WAS ALREADY BUILT.
BUT, UH, I THINK THE TOWN HAS A DUTY AT THIS JUNCTURE THAT IF IT'S UNEARTHED, THAT AN A APPROPRIATE ARCHEOLOGICAL SURVEY BE CONDUCTED ON THE PROPERTY THERE TO DETERMINE BODIES OR THE PLACEMENT OF THE METHODIST CHURCH SIMPLY DID NOT MOVE ALL THE BODIES PROSPECT HILL.
YOU KNOW THAT IT DIDN'T OCCUR.
DO YOU KNOW THAT OR I DON'T RESPOND TO QUESTIONS.
SO THAT BEING SAID, WHAT THE QUESTIONS.
THE NECESSARY ELEMENT OF ARCHEOLOGICAL SURVEY IS SOMETHING THAT THIS BOARD SHOULD, UH, REQUIRES CONDITION PRECEDING.
IF IT ALLOWS THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TWO SECTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN REQUESTED ACCORDING TO THE DRAWINGS OF THE TIME DURING THE LATE UNPLEASANTNESS OF 1861 TO 65 WHEN IT WAS A CHURCH AND THEN MADE INTO A HOSPITAL.
AND I THINK DICK RICHARDSON DID A DRAWING USING SOME OLD DRAWINGS OF THE MAIN STREET.
IT SHOWS THE CEMETERY GOING WAY BACK PROBABLY TO WHERE ELLEN'S BUILDING PASSED.
SO THERE SHOULD BE AN ARCHEOLOGICAL SURVEY DONE THERE TO IDENTIFY AND IF THERE ARE BODIES THAT APPROPRIATE PROCEDURES THAT THE LAW NOW REQUIRES, BE IT HERE TO, IF THE BOARD IS TO VOTE TO ALLOW THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PROPERTY, EVEN THOUGH CERTAIN OTHER ELEMENTS OF WHAT I BELIEVE IS THE TOWN CODE REQUIRING THAT HAVE TO BE MET BEFORE YOU VOTE TO ALLOW THE TEAR DOWN.
UH, THERE'S NO CLEAR PLAN OF WHAT'S GOING
[00:55:01]
TO GO THERE.SO WHAT'S IT GOING TO BE REPLACED WITH AND HAVE THAT AS A, AND, UH, MR. SONIC CAN ADVISE YOU ON THAT OF CERTAIN, CERTAIN BONDING PROFFERS OF WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN OR BE THERE.
ADDITIONALLY, I WOULD REQUIRE PERFORMANCE BOND TO ENSURE THAT THE BUILDER OR FUTURE OWNERS HAVE TO POST A CERTAIN PERFORMANCE BOND TO ASSURE COMPLIANCE WITH THE PROFFERED CONDITIONS OF WHAT THEY WANT TO DO THERE.
AND THAT CAN TIE AND RUN WITH THE LAND.
AGAIN, MR. SONNET CAN HELP YOU WITH THAT.
THE DINNER THEATER THAT I HEARD MENTIONED TONIGHT, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD WORK IF THEY, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T SERVE ALCOHOL ON THAT PROPERTY.
LAST TIME I LOOKED AT THE DEED, I THINK THERE WAS A RESTRICTION ON THE SALE OF ALCOHOL ON THE PROPERTY BECAUSE THE METHODIST CHURCH WAS HELL.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S STILL AGAINST ALCOHOL, NOT, BUT ONE POINT THEY WORK AND THERE'S A RESTRICTION ON THE SALE OF ALCOHOL IN THAT FINALLY PARKING.
I WORK IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA, I GO IN THE DC TIME'S UP AND THE TOWN NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT PARKING.
SIMPLY PUT, PARKING IS AN ISSUE AND IT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED.
AND THAT CAN ALSO BE ADDRESSED WITH THE PROPER FROM THE BUILDER FOR OFFSITE PARKING ELSEWHERE.
UM, DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY UP HERE? ANYBODY MISSED THE CHANCE OF SIGNING UP? I DID.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME UP AND SAY SOMETHING? UM, UNFORTUNATELY I MISSED THE, THE FIRST PART OF YOUR, UM, PRESENTATION.
SO, UM, BUT I JUST AM A LITTLE BIT CONFUSED.
SO, UM, MY NAME IS CARRIE BARNHART.
UM, I AM, UM, THE OWNER OF 1 22 EAST MAIN STREET AND 2 0 5 EAST MAIN STREET.
I'M A DEVELOPER, IT'S A TERRIBLE WORD, BUT I'M A DEVELOPER.
UM, AND, UH, I ALSO, UM, AM THE PRESIDENT OF I BRISA BEER.
UM, AND I ALSO HAPPEN TO BE THE, UM, CHAIR OF THE, UM, DISCOVER FRONT ROYAL, UH, OUR TOURISM COMMITTEE.
SO I'M JUST A LITTLE CONFUSED, AND MAYBE HE COVERED THIS BEFORE, BUT I JUST WANTED TO PUT IT OUT THERE.
UM, SO OUR BUILDINGS WERE HISTORIC, BOTH OF THEM.
THEY DIDN'T LOOK HISTORIC, BUT THEY WERE BOTH, THEY WERE BOTH REALLY SUPER HISTORIC.
UM, AND WE WENT THROUGH THE PAINSTAKING PROCESS OF TRYING TO, WITHIN THAT FOOTPRINT, CHANGE SOMETHING AND BRING IT TO ITS NEW LIFE.
AND I THINK EVERY BUSINESS OWNER SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT.
UM, AND WE, UM, KIND OF LOOKED AT WHAT KIND OF, UH, MARVEL WAS ON THE FRONT OF, UH, UM, OF THE DEPARTMENT STORE AND PUT THAT BACK AND, YOU KNOW, UM, AND YES, WE GOT A LOT OF, UH, PUSHBACK.
LIKE, WHO ARE YOU? UM, PEOPLE SAID, WHO'S YOUR DADDY?
UM, BUT, UM, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO DO SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY BRINGS LIFE TO THE COMMUNITY.
BUT ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS THAT WE HAD, AND THIS IS WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IN MAKING THOSE CHANGES, IS WE HAD TO HAVE A SITE PLAN.
WE HAD TO HAVE A, UM, WE HAD TO HAVE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THE BUILDING? WE WANNA KNOW EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING WITH THE BUILDING.
HOW ARE YOU IMPROVING? AND WE BROUGHT EVERYBODY AND, YOU KNOW, FROM THE TOWN AND THE COUNTY IN, AND SHOWED US WHAT WE WERE DOING.
UM, AND THAT WAS A VERY IMPORTANT PART FOR US, BUT IT WAS ALSO A REQUIREMENT.
SO WE COULDN'T SAY, OH, WE'RE JUST DEMOLISHING IT AND NOT TELLING YOU, OR, YOU KNOW, NOT GOING WITH THE WHOLE PLAN.
THE BOARD OF ARCHITECT REVIEW, UM, ALLOWED THAT WE ACTUALLY WON, UM, A, UH, UH, NORTHERN VIRGINIA AND DC UM, WE JUST WON THE NORTHERN VIRGINIA ONE.
UM, WE WON THE, UH, BOARD OF, UH, I MEAN THE, UH, AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF ARCHITECTURE AWARD FOR, UH, URBAN CATALYST AND FOR HIS, UH, UH, RESTORATION.
AND THOSE WERE AGAINST PROJECTS ALL OVER THE WORLD.
UM, AND IT'S BECAUSE WE WERE, WE DID IT THE RIGHT WAY, BUT WE WERE GUIDED BY, UM, THIS COMMUNITY AND WHAT WE NEEDED TO DO TO MAKE IT BETTER.
UM, AND SO WHEN WE PRESENTED, WE SHOWED THE WHOLE THING AND WE DID EXACTLY WHAT WE SAID WE WERE GONNA DO.
AND THERE'S SOME MEMBERS ON THIS BOARD THAT WERE HERE WHEN WE, WE SAID WE WERE GONNA DO IT, AND THEY CAN TELL YOU WE DID EXACTLY WHAT WE SAID WE WERE GONNA DO.
SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE FROM ANY DEVELOPER.
YES, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO WHAT YOU NEED, BUT LET'S MAKE IT BETTER AND LET'S EMBRACE IT AND
[01:00:01]
LET'S SEE THE WHOLE PLAN AND DO IT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE WHOLE PLAN.WOULD YOU MIND SIGNING IT? THANK YOU.
ANYBODY ELSE HAS ANYTHING TO SAY? I DO LAST CALL YOU, SIR? YES.
I LIVE AT THREE 70 WESLEY LANE IN BENTONVILLE, AND I AM THE OWNER OF, UH, OF, UH, TURNING LEAF REALTY GROUP AT 28 EAST JACKSON STREET IN ROTH, BACK OF THE STREET.
I JUST WANNA SAY, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT REHABILITATION OR, OR RENEWAL OR WHATEVER WORDS YOU USE OF A BUILDING OR OR AREA, IT IMPLIES THAT IT'S PART OF THE PLAN.
I IT'S GOING TO BE, IT IS THIS, IT WILL BE THAT, RIGHT? THE IDEA THAT YOU ARE GOING TO DEMOLISH WHAT IS THERE FIRST, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT MAY HAVE A HISTORICAL CONSTRUCTION, AND THEN COME UP WITH THE PLAN AS TO WHAT IT WILL BE IS JUST ALL BACKWARDS.
AS I THINK BILL SAID IT SET IT BEST THERE A FEW MINUTES AGO.
YOU GOT THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE.
AND I WOULD IMPLORE Y'ALL AS, AS BOARD MEMBERS THAT AGAIN, IF YOU WERE PRESSED FOR AN ANSWER YES OR NO ON DEMOLITION OF A HISTORIC STRUCTURE BEFORE A PLAN IS IN PLACE, PLEASE VOTE NO BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT IT BACKWARDS.
I THINK ON THAT WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC PORTION OF THIS MEETING.
UM, WHAT QUESTIONS DO WE HAVE FOR THE, OKAY, WHERE DO YOU WANNA START? I'LL, OH YEAH.
YOU KNOW, THE PERMIT IS ONLY FOR DEMOLITION OF THE REAR SECTION OF THE BUILDING.
SINCE LEE, WHERE THE TERRACOTTA BLOCK IS TO THE REAR, UH, THE BUILDING REALLY ENCOMPASSES, UH, 90 SOME PERCENT OF THE LOT.
THE, UH, BUILDING, UH, ON CHURCH STREET ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE BACK IS ACTUALLY THE PROPERTY LINE GOING FORWARD.
UH, THEN WHEN IT COMES UP TO THE OTHER TERRA PAR TERRACOTTA NEXT TO SCHULS, IT DEVIATES OFF THE BUILDING AND RUNS WITH THE, UH, SCHULS PROPERTY.
SO WHAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN IS THE PROPERTY AND THE BUILDING.
SO THERE WOULD BE NO ENCROACHMENT ON PARKING IN THE BACK.
UH, PROPERTIES ON EAST MAIN STREET FROM, UH, SOUTH ROYAL TO HAPPY CREEK ARE EXEMPT FROM MEETING THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
PROPERTIES ON EAST JACKSON STREET FROM SOUTH ROYAL TO CHURCH STREET ARE EXEMPT FROM THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
SO THOSE LOTS FRONTING ON THOSE STREETS DO NOT HAVE TO MEET THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
UM, SO, UH, THE SECOND THING IS TO UNDERSTAND THAT BEFORE THE BOARD IS ONLY FOR THE DEMOLITION NEW CONSTRUCTION OR CONVERSION OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURE, WHICH IS ALLOWED BY MATTER OF, RIGHT.
THAT APPLICATION WOULD BE BROUGHT BACK TO THE BOARD FOR APPROVAL.
THEN ALSO APPROVAL BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
SO THERE IS A, A PROCESS AND A STEP WITH THIS.
SO THE A, UH, YOU CAN PUT CONDITIONS ON WHICHEVER WAY YOU DECIDE TO VOTE, UH, OR TABLE THE DECISION, WHATEVER YOU DECIDE.
BUT FOR NEW, FOR CONVERSION OF THE STRUCTURE, WHICH IS ALLOWED BY A MATTER OF, RIGHT, FOR RETAIL SHOPS, PROFESSIONAL OFFICES, THE DWELLING UNITS, THAT WOULD COME BACK BEFORE THE BOARD AGAIN FOR APPROVAL THEN TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL.
SO ASKING, UH, THAT, THAT, THAT IS A PROCESS.
SO THIS IS NOT FOR THE SITE DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL TONIGHT OR FOR ANY CONDITIONS PLACED ON THAT.
THAT IS JUST THE APPLICATION IS JUST FOR POTENTIAL DEMOLITION OF A PORTION OF THE STRUCTURE.
DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS THAT WERE BROUGHT UP THAT, UH, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO ASK IF WE'RE JUST FOCUSING SOLELY ON THE DEMOLITION, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, I THINK I UNDERSTAND A LOT OF, YOU SPOKE ABOUT WE
[01:05:01]
NEED TO LOOK AT THIS KIND OF HOLISTICALLY, AND I AGREE WITH THAT POINT.WE DON'T WANT TO TEAR DOWN SOMETHING THE WILLY-NILLY WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT'S GONNA GO BACK IN ITS PLACE.
BUT FOR THE POINT OF THIS PURPOSE OF THIS MEETING, DO WE WANT TO DESTROY A BUILDING THAT WE DON'T? WHY ARE WE DOING IT? WELL, WE HAVE NO REPORT FROM AN INSTRUCTIONAL ENGINEER.
WE HAVE NO PHOTOGRAPHS FROM INSIDE THE BUILDING.
WE HAVE NO COST ANALYSIS BETWEEN A RESTORATION APPROACH VERSUS A DEMOLITION AND RECONSTRUCTION APPROACH.
WE HAVE ZERO INFORMATION TO JUSTIFY TEARING DOWN A BUILDING THAT'S BEEN THERE FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS.
SO I AGREE WITH ALL THOSE STATEMENTS.
NOW, IF WE GO THROUGH OUR LITTLE CHECKLIST HERE, THAT WAS SO DILIGENTLY CREATED, THE DEMOLITION REVIEWED GUIDELINE, PRETTY MUCH ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS THAT YOU ANSWERED, RIGHT? HAS THIS BEEN DONE, THIS BEEN DONE THIS, BEEN DONE.
AND A LOT OF THESE EASY, WELL CANNOT ANSWER.
IS IT A CONS CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE? YES.
IT'S IDENTIFIED AS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE ON THE REPORT.
THE FEASIBILITY PORTION, THE INTEGRITY, STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY.
WE DID AN EXTERIOR SITE VISIT.
WE HAVE NOT YET BEEN IN THE BUILDING BY REPORT FROM A LICENSED STRUCTURAL ENGINEER OR A LICENSED ARCHITECT THAT ADDRESSES STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY.
IS THERE ANY REPORT AVAILABLE? THERE IS NO REPORT AVAILABLE.
UH, A REPORT FROM A LOCAL BUILDING OFFICIAL, DO WE HAVE A REPORT FROM ANYBODY WITH NO, NONE WAS SUBMITTED.
TESTIMONY OF EXPERT WITNESSES AT THE PUBLIC HEARING, WHICH I THINK WE JUST HAD QUITE A FEW OF THOSE.
WE HAVE NO COST ANALYSIS THAT'S THERE.
THE ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS HAVE, WE, WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE, THE DATA HERE.
WE HAVE NO INFORMATION TO LEAN ON THAT WOULD MAKE ME, EITHER WAY, THAT WOULD SWEAT ME TO DEMOLISH THIS BUILDING.
AND NOT NECESSARILY WRONG, BUT I GUESS UNFINISHED IS A BETTER RIGHT.
AND THAT'S REALLY ALL WE KNOW.
IT WASN'T, WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE EXPOSED TO THE, THE ELEMENTS.
COULD Y'ALL SPEAK UP A LITTLE BIT? WE CAN'T, OH, SORRY.
THE, THE, IT'S A, ESSENTIALLY AN UNFINISHED BUILDING THAT SAT THERE FOR A LONG TIME.
CAN I ASK HIM SOME QUESTIONS? YES.
IS THAT OKAY? I HAVE TO ASK PERMISSION TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS.
THERE WAS AN UNDERGROUND WAR THING.
AND, UH, AND THEN THAT'S ON THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING AND THEN ON THE BACK OF THE BUILDING, I DID A LITTLE BIT OF WORK BACK ON THAT TOO.
SO NOT, BUT IN THE MIDDLE, UH, WHERE THE TERRACOTTA IS AT.
HE'S BEEN SITTING THERE AND, UH, LISTEN, IT, IT MAY UP ANOTHER A HUNDRED YEARS.
AND WHAT, IT'S JUST BECAUSE YOU, YOU THINK THE, THE DEMOLITION IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, IS WHY YOU'RE NEGLECTING TO DO ANY MAINTENANCE WHATSOEVER ON THE, THAT PORTION OF THE BUILDING.
I HAVE TO, I HAVE TO WEIGH AS A BUSINESSMAN TO SAY, OKAY, WHAT AM I GOING TO DO WITH THIS THING? MM-HMM.
I WAS GONNA BUILD A BUSINESS IN THERE AND, AND A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ARENA.
AND NOW WHAT I'VE LOOKED AT IT, SAY, HEY, I'M GONNA DO THIS.
I DID A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF THAT UP FRONT AND, UH, PUT A CERTAIN SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY IN IT AND NOW TO A POINT SAYING, WELL, GOSH, YOU KNOW, EVEN
[01:10:01]
WHY WOULD I PUT MONEY IN IT? I MEAN, IT'S EMPTY BUILDING.SO EVEN FROM A, FROM A LIFE SAFETY STANDPOINT, IF YOU'RE THINKING THAT THIS BUILDING COULD FALL DOWN, WHICH YOU STATED EARLIER, YOU'VE DONE ANY SORT OF STABILIZATION WORK AT ALL? NO, I'M AFRAID.
YOU THINK IT'S THAT BAD? NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT BAD.
I'VE BEEN THERE FOR, FOR, UH, UH, 15 YEARS AND I HAVEN'T REALLY SEEN ANYTHING DIFFERENT.
CAN I, DO I LOOK AT IT EVERY DAY? DO I GO LOOK EVERY SIX MONTHS? NO, I DON'T KEEP THAT TRACK OF WHAT I'M LOOKING TO JUST, AGAIN, TO GET THE TOWN TO SAY, OKAY, THE PURPOSE OF THIS ASPECT OF THE BUILDING, DOES IT HAVE THE SIGN SIGNIFICANT HISTORIC VALUE THAT, HONEY, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THAT POTENTIALLY COMES DOWN AND, AND IS NOT A BUILDING AT ALL? IS IT A POTENTIAL THAT IT ENDS UP BECOMING A PARKING LOT? I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN, SO THERE'S SO MANY VARIABLES OUT THERE.
WE TALKED ABOUT DWELLINGS AND THAT, AND I DID FRONT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S GOING TO BE.
I, I'M WILLING TO WORK WITH THE TOWN TO, TO MAKE A DETERMINATION.
WHAT IS THE BEST THING FOR THIS.
SO IT MAY BE JUST A PARKING LOT.
CAN I HEAD A LITTLE BIT TO THAT? SURE.
I SELL COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL REAL ESTATE, AND I HAD THE BUILDING FOR SALE FOR A WHILE, AND SEVERAL PEOPLE DID BRING STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS IN.
I NEVER SAW A REPORT, DON'T HAVE ANY COPY OF THE REPORT.
BUT IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTHING, EVERY PROPOSAL THEY HAD TO KEEP THAT SECTION OF THE BUILDING WOULD REQUIRE YOU TO COVER THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING WITH ONE OR TWO INCHES OF, OF UH, CEMENT RIS MATERIAL.
AND THEN DO SAME THING AND DRILL HOLES IN THE, AND PUMP IT INSIDE THE TERRACOTTA.
SO THE TERRACOTTA IS GOING TO BE GONE FROM VIEW NO MATTER WHAT.
BUT IT'S NOT GONNA, YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE IT.
IT'S JUST LIKE THE LOG HOUSE THAT I RESTORED FROM 1750S ON CHESTER STREET HAS STUCCO ON THE OUTSIDE AND PLASTER ON THE INSIDE.
YOU CAN'T SEE A LOG, BUT THEY'RE 17 INCHES, UH, DEEP.
THERE'S NOT SO MUCH THE AESTHETIC THAT WE'RE CONCERNED WITH, YOU KNOW, IN THIS CASE IT'S, IS THIS BUILDING SIGNIFICANT, YOU KNOW, AND IN MY VIEW, IT WAS A THEATER.
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TESTIMONY FROM PEOPLE IN THE TOWN THAT HAVE PERSONAL TIES TO THE BUILDING.
UM, IT WAS DESIGNED TO HAVE A RENDERING ON IT, YOU KNOW, A TUCKO COATING.
THAT KIND OF A CHANGE THAT PRESERVES THE CORE OF THE BUILDING IS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE HERE TO PROMOTE.
SO I'VE DEALT WITH HISTORIC DISTRICT WHEN IT WAS FIRST DEVELOPED.
THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
HISTORIC DISTRICT EMBRACE CHANGE AND RECOGNIZE CHANGE.
THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID WHEN THEY CREATED IT.
OUR PURPOSE OF THE BAR IS TO PRESERVE THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DOESN.
OUR MISSION STATEMENT IN MY MIND, AND I COULD BE GETTING THIS WRONG FROM WHAT'S ON PAPER SURE.
SO WE'RE NOT, YOU KNOW, UN BENDABLE.
WHAT AM I, AM I GETTING THE, THE BOOK VERBIAGE HERE, UM, TO PRESERVE, IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF LIFE OR RESIDENCE OF THE TOWN FROM ROYAL BY PROTECTING FAMILIAR AND TREASURED VISUAL ELEMENTS IN THE AREA.
SO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. WAYLAND? I DO HONOR ANY QUESTIONS? NO, I'VE MANY TIMES.
CAN YOU EXPAND ON THAT A LITTLE BIT? WELL, PROBABLY HAVEN'T BEEN IN THERE SINCE THE 83 OR SO, BUT THE PARTIES, HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE, THE, YOU KNOW, THE STAGING, STAGING AREA MM-HMM.
THEY USED STORED CARPET ROLLS AND ROLLS AND ROLLS OF CARPET.
MANY DIFFERENT THINGS TO MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.
BUT THE POINT IS IT'S BEEN THERE FOR ALL THOSE PEOPLE.
NO, I THINK I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO, UH, TO NOT DEMOLISH OF BUILDING.
[01:15:01]
THAT.SO YOU MAKE A MOTION TO DENY THE APPLICATION? I WOULD MAKE A MOTION TO DENY THE APPLICATION.
CAUSE THERE'S, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO JUSTIFY DEMOLITION TABLE.
YOU CAN TABLE IT, YOU CAN DENY IT.
YOU CAN APPROVE IT OR APPROVE IT WITH CONDITIONS AND YOUR, I MEAN, IF WE WERE GONNA TABLE IT, IF IT WERE GONNA COME BACK TO US, COULD WE SAY, WHEN IT COMES BACK TO US, WE'D HAVE TO KNOW WHAT'S GONNA GO WITH ITS PLATE.
IF YOU'RE GONNA TABLE IT, YOUR OPTIONS WOULD BE TO ASK FOR A REPORT FROM A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER OR A BUILDING INSPECTOR.
YOU CAN ASK FOR INFORMATION THAT WOULD, UM, CHECK SOME OF THE BOXES ON THE CHECKLIST.
SO THAT GUIDE IS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES.
THE PURPOSE OF THAT IS FOR YOU TO HAVE A SYSTEMATIC APPROACH TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO DEMOLISH OR APPROVE THE DEMO.
DEMOLITION OF ALL OF THESE WE DON'T HAVE.
BUT ALSO, IF WE DENIED IT, HE COULD COME BACK WITH THAT LATER AND SHOW US WHY IT NEEDED TO BE, OR IF WE DENIED IT, IT COULDN'T COME BACK.
IF YOU DENY IT TONIGHT, I BELIEVE HE'D BE ABLE TO RESUBMIT AND COME BACK.
UM, WE WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS AGAIN.
AND THERE MAY BE A TIME LIMIT.
I WOULD HAVE TO CHECK THE CODE.
TYPICALLY, WE DON'T ALLOW REAPPLICATION WITHIN THE YEAR IF WE TABLE THIS THING.
ARE YOU WILLING TO HAVE A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER COME IN AND DO A THOROUGH REPORT AND PRODUCE THIS INFORMATION THAT WE WANNA LOOK AT? SO I WANT TO, YOU WANT ME TO, TO PUT MONEY IN THIS, TO GET A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER TO SEE IF IT, IT'S ACTUALLY SALE.
IS IT SOUND ENOUGH TO STABILIZE AND RESTORE? SO, SO BASICALLY THAT'S MAKING THE DETERMINATION.
BUT THE HISTORICAL PORTION OF THIS, WE ALREADY KNOW.
WE ALREADY KNOW IT'S A HISTORIC BUILDING.
WHAT WE WANT TO KNOW IS WHAT IS YOUR JUSTIFICATION FOR DEMOLISHING IT, THE BENEFIT OF THE TOWN AND WORKING WITH THE TOWN TO TRY TO PUT THE BEST THING THERE THAT WE POSSIBLY CAN.
I THINK IT SHOULD BE, WE DON'T HAVE EVIDENCE.
IT SHOULD BE CLEAR THAT, THAT THE PROCESS WE'RE FOLLOWING IS A PROCESS THAT STAFF TOLD US THAT WE NEEDED TO FILE.
EVERYBODY'S SAYING WE'RE TAKING IT OUTTA ORDER, BUT WE'RE FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTION OF STAFF AND WE'RE DOING IT ONE STEP AT A TIME.
WE'RE NOT TRYING TO TAKE ANY SHORTCUTS.
WE'RE NOT TRYING TO PULL ANYTHING.
WE'RE, WE'RE DOING WHAT WE WERE TOLD TO DO.
I, I, I WOULD HA IT SUGGESTS PUT IN THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE, UH, LOOKED AT BY THE PLANNING ZONING AND ALL OF THAT AND, AND, AND WORKING WITH.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM AT ALL WORKING WITH TOWN MANAGEMENT TO, TO DO WHAT'S BEST WORK THAT SPACE.
THAT SPACE IS BEING TOTALLY UNUTILIZED AT THIS POINT.
COULD IT BE BETTER, BE BETTER AS A PARKING LOT, BUT IT MAY BE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT ARE OUT HERE THAT MAY BE BENEFICIAL TO THIS TOWN.
I UNDERSTAND THE HISTORY OF ALL OF THIS.
I MEAN, I'VE BEEN HERE FOR A LONG TIME TOO.
I REMEMBER NEW BARRYS, I REMEMBER ALL OF THAT.
SO I, I, I KNEW FRANKIE SILENT.
WE WEREN'T GREAT OF FRIENDS, BUT I, I, YOU KNOW, I KNOW HIM BACK IN THE DAY.
AND, UM, I DON'T TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM ALL THE HISTORY OF THAT, BUT I'M LOOKING FOR A POINT THAT SAYS, OKAY, IF WE DECIDE WITHIN THE TOWN, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO DO, IS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OF THIS BUILDING SUCH THAT IT'S GONNA PREVENT IT ALL? AND I'M NOT GETTING THAT AT THIS POINT.
I NEED TO KNOW THAT, HEY, IF I GO THROUGH THE GYRATIONS OF THIS IS THE HISTORICAL PORTION OF THIS TO GO SAY, OH, WELL, WE'RE NOT GONNA KNOCK IT DOWN ANYWAY.
I'M NOT GONNA DO THINGS THAT I HAVE NO IDEA.
I MEAN, WHY WOULD I SPEND THE MONEY FOR IT? I'VE ALREADY GOT 20, $30,000 JUST RENDITIONS AND, AND DOING, UH, UH, DRAWINGS AND, AND FROM THE, UH, UH, VARIETY OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT, THAT I NEEDED TO DO FOR THE TOWN.
AND I'VE HAD MULTIPLE PEOPLE TELL ME DIFFERENT WAYS OF DOING IT.
OH, THIS IS NOT GONNA WORK, BUT THAT'S NOT GONNA WORK.
I JUST WANNA KNOW WHAT WORKS, WHAT DOES WORK.
SO WHEN THEY'VE COME IN AND THEY'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH STAFF OVER THE LAST YEAR OR SO, UM, WE'VE TRIED TO, YOU KNOW, KIND OF HELP STEER THEM IN A WAY THAT AT LEAST GETS THE BALL ROLLING.
SO THEIR OPTIONS WOULD'VE BEEN TO COME TO PLANNING COMMISSION WITH A COMPLETED SITE PLAN AND, AND GO THROUGH A PROCESS.
THEY'RE IN THE DOWNTOWN BUSINESS DISTRICT.
SO IF THEY WANTED TO DO APARTMENTS, THEY CAN'T DO APARTMENTS, BUT THEY CAN DO DWELLING UNITS.
AND THE DIFFERENCE THERE IS THE SIZE.
SO, UH, AN APARTMENT, THE MINIMUM SIZE IS 270 SQUARE FEET.
THE DWELLING UNIT, WHICH IS ALLOWED BY RIGHT, IS 600 SQUARE FEET PER UNIT.
[01:20:01]
UM, AND THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS, IS LIKE, THAT WOULD BE HANDLED ADMINISTRATIVELY THROUGH OUR DEPARTMENT.ANYTHING LIKE, LIKE A HOTEL WOULD BE BY, RIGHT? THERE'S A WHOLE LIST OF USES.
NOW, IF THEY CHOSE A USE THAT REQUIRED A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, THAT WOULD GO TO PLANNING COMMISSION, THERE WAS AN APPLICATION EARLIER THIS YEAR FOR EXTENDING THE HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING THAT WAS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
IT DID START GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
BUT THE PLANNING COMMISSION IS ALSO GONNA BE REMISS TO TAKE ACTION IF THEY DON'T KNOW IF WE GO THROUGH ALL THESE TESTS, IS THE BAR GONNA ALLOW THE DEMOLITION THAT WOULD HAVE TO OCCUR FOR THE REDEVELOPMENT OF THIS PROPERTY? SO IT'S KIND OF A, WE CAN GO ITEM WAY, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE LET'S NOT GO THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF GETTING THE ENGINEERING.
AND IF AT THE END OF THE DAY THE STRUCTURE STAND, UM, THEN KIND OF THEIR INITIAL PLANS ARE, ARE ARE NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
SO AT THIS POINT, IT SEEMED LIKE THE DEMOLITION GETTING APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL FOR THE DEMOLITION.
I'M GONNA POSE ANOTHER QUESTION TO YOU, AND IT WOULD BE, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF SPENDING THE MONEY TO DEMOLISH? IF YOU HAVE NO IDEA, IF ANYTHING WOULD BE APPROVED TO GO BACK IN THERE? I, I, I, I DON'T THINK THAT I WOULD SPEND THE MONEY TO DEMOLISH IT UNTIL SOMETHING WAS DETERMINED.
THAT WOULD BE, UH, A VERY GOOD SCENARIO OUT.
IF THEY WERE IN TOWN, I COULD GET THE PLANNING AND ZONING AND WE'RE ALL WORKING TOGETHER WITH THIS THING DOESN'T HAPPEN AT ALL.
SO WHY WOULDN'T IT ALL GO AT THE SAME TIME THEN IF HE'S NOT GONNA DEMOLISH IT UNTIL SOMETHING'S APPROVED? WELL, HERE'S THE THING, LIKE IN YOUR, IN THE STAFF REPORT AT THE END, THERE'S A, IF YOU GROW THE APPROVAL ROUTE, YOU WOULD PLACE A CONDITION ON IT THAT HE WOULD SIGN, LIKE A, A PERFORMANCE BOND, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, STATING THAT HE WON'T DEMOLISH UNTIL HE IS, HAS ALL THE OTHER APPROVALS IN PLACE.
UM, SO IT'S JUST A, IT'S JUST A STEP IN A VERY LONG PROCESS.
I MEAN, FROM START TO FINISH, TYPICALLY IT'S GONNA TAKE HIM SIX, NINE MONTHS TO GET THROUGH ALL OF THE APPROVALS THAT WOULD HAPPEN.
AND ANYTHING THAT HE DOES HAS TO BE IN CONFORMANCE WITH CURRENT CODE.
SO IF HE TAKES THAT BUILDING DOWN, THERE ARE SETBACKS THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO ABIDE BY.
UM, ANY UTILITIES WOULD NEED TO BE BROUGHT UP TO CONCURRENT CODE.
UM, THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT AND ENERGY SERVICES DEPARTMENTS WOULD WEIGH IN TO MAKE SURE THAT THE NEW DEVELOPMENT IS ADEQUATELY SERVED AND HE HAS TO PAY DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM FEES THAT WOULD, UM, LIKE FOR THE UPGRADES THERE.
SO IF HE NEEDED TRANSFORMERS, DEVELOPER HAS TO PAY FOR THAT.
IF THEY NEED, UM, WATER, LIKE IF THEY NEED TO INCREASE THE SIZE OF WATER PIPES THERE, THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT.
SO IT'S NOT GONNA, IT'S NOT A BURDEN TO THE TAXPAYER AT THAT POINT.
LIKE THEY, THE DEVELOPER PAYS THE SYSTEM DEVELOPMENT FEE.
WHAT, UM, MR.
IF, IF I GET TO A POINT THAT SAYS, HEY, THIS IS A GO AND CUZ THAT THE ONE SIDE OF THAT BUILDING THAT WAS THE CHURCH, UM, ADAMANT ABOUT PRESERVING THAT AND MAKING SURE ONE, AND I WOULDN'T, LIKE THEY STILL GOT WINDOWS IN THERE THAT WERE THERE ORIGINALLY.
SOME OF 'EM ARE GONE, BUT, YOU KNOW, TO, TO HAVE THE ORIGINAL BRICK TO COME IN AND ACTUALLY PRESERVE THAT.
SO RIGHT NOW IT'S SOME STEPS AND ALL THAT STUFF THAT REALLY NOT VERY NICE LOOK.
SO WHAT IS IT GONNA TAKE? I CAN'T, I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, SO I DON'T KNOW.
BUT IT IT BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD, WHAT I FEEL LIKE IS, AND THIS IS A REAL BIG EFFORT IF FOR HAP FOR GOD FORBID, THAT THE BUILDING WOULD FALL FOR WHATEVER THE REASON, AND IF IT FALLS THAT, THAT, THAT'S COMING DOWN TOO.
WE GO BACK IN A CERTAIN FORMAT.
I THINK WE CAN PRESERVE THAT AND HAVE THAT IN PLACE FOR THE NEXT A HUNDRED TO 200 YEARS WHERE PEOPLE COULD COME IN AND SEE.
SO THAT'S, I LOVE THAT YOU HAVE THAT ATTITUDE.
UM, THAT'S THE PERFECT ANSWER.
IT'S JUST WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR.
I JUST WISH WE HAD IT ON PAPER FROM AN ENGINEER FOR THIS MEETING AND, AND, AND, AND AGAIN, AND IT'S, IF, IF I CAN GET TO A CERTAIN POINT IN THIS PROCESS, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM.
IF WE ARE SAYING, OKAY, THIS IS, IS APPROVED BASED ON, UH, INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE WITH THE PLANNING AND, AND, AND WORKING WITH THE BUILDING AND THE ZONING AND ALL THAT,
[01:25:01]
I'M NOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT.I, IT JUST ALLOWS ME TO TAKE ANOTHER STEP HERE.
BUT I DON'T, I'M NOT GONNA GO OUT AND SPEND A LOT OF MONEY AND DOING ALL THIS STUFF, JUST HAVE YOU GUYS SAY, AH, GOSH, YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF HISTORICAL.
AND SO IF WE VOTED TO KEEP IT, YOU WOULD NOT, OR WE VOTED TO DENY DENY UH, DENY DEMOLITION.
YOU HAVE NO DESIRE TO TRY AND RENOVATE WHAT'S CURRENTLY THERE.
YOU WOULD JUST LEAVE IT AS IS.
ACTUALLY WHAT WOULD I DO? I'D SELL IT.
AND I'D LET THE NEXT GUY BRING IT IN FRONT OF YOU AND DO WHATEVER.
OR, I MEAN, BUT HE'S, HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THAT SIDE OF THAT FILM.
BUT HE, I MIGHT BE WRONG ABOUT THAT.
THAT LEAVES US IN AN INTERESTING PREDICAMENT, DOESN'T IT?
YOU HAVE THE BOARD ANY CONDITIONS YOU WANT.
THEY JUST HAVE TO RELATE TO THE APPLICATION.
WISH WE COULD HEAR A PUBLICLY
I WAS JUST STATING THAT AS THE BOARD, THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO PLACE CONDITIONS UPON ANY APPROVAL THAT THEY GRANT THAT IT HAS TO BE RELATED TO THE APPLICATION AND PERTAIN TO THE, TO THE STRUCTURE.
JUST A REMINDER, YOU DO HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR.
I THINK KATIE DID YOU SECOND OKAY.
WANT YOU TO AMEND THE MOTION OR HOWEVER YOU WANNA DO IT.
BUT YOU DO, YOU AMEND IT OR YOU CONTINUE DISCUSSION AND YOU TAKE A MOTION.
I'M GONNA MAKE A MOTION TO DENY THIS APPLICATION FOR DEMOLITION.
JUST, JUST A DENIAL LIKE NOTHING ELSE.
WE'D LIKE TO CONTINUE DISCUSSION.
THE ALTERNATIVE IS WE TABLED THIS, BUT ED THAT HE'S NOT INTERESTED IN DOING ANY MORE.
PUTTING THE MONEY FOR AN ENGINEER.
IF SHE WAS WILLING TO DO THAT, I'D BE FINE WITH TABLING, BUT HE'S GONNA PUT IT UP FOR SECONDS.
I THINK HIS, HIS POINT OF VIEW IS IF HE GETS THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER REPORT AND THE REPORT SAYS THAT THE BUILDING INTEGRITY IS JEOPARDIZED, HE DOES NOT WANT THE BOARD TO COME BACK AND SAY, WITH THIS REPORT, NOW WE'RE GOING TO DENY IT JUST BECAUSE OF THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE BUILDING.
THAT'S THAT'S THE DISCUSSION IN THE PAST YOU'RE AT.
IF HE CAME BACK WITH A REPORT THAT SAID THAT THERE'S NO WAY THAT THIS BUILDING COULD BE SAVED, WHAT DO WE, I MEAN THAT PUTS US IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POSITION.
YEAH, I THINK COMPLETELY KNOW.
YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T, THERE'S NO SAVING IT.
WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO SAY? WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION.
WELL, THE GUIDELINES IS FOR DOES IT RETAIN STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY? WELL, ALL WE HAVE IS THAT IT'S STANDING THERE NOW,
SO I'M NOT, IT'S NOT, CAN THE BUILDING BE SAVED? RIGHT.
THE DEFINITION IS DOES IT RETAIN STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY? IS IT, IS IT IN JEOPARDY? NO, NOT THAT IT CAN BE PRESERVED.
SO HE'S ASKING AT A POINT, IF HE GOT A STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING REPORT, IT SAYS THAT THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY IS JEOPARDIZED.
AND THAT'S WHAT THE REPORT STATES.
HE'S ASKING THAT IT WOULD BE APPROVED ON THAT CONDITION AND YOU NOT DENY IT BASED ON THIS HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE BUILDING.
AND I THINK THE UNFORTUNATE PIECE OF THAT IS WE CAN'T MAKE A DEFINITIVE ANSWER ON THAT WITHOUT HAVING THAT REPORT.
WE'RE, YOU CANNOT BE A CONDITION.
[01:30:01]
ON THIS STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY AND THEN YOUR GUIDELINES UNDER NUMBER TWO.AND IT CAN COME FROM AN ENGINEER OR A, I THINK IT'S THIS BUILDING INSPECTOR.
SO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A, UH, A LICENSED STRUCTURAL ENGINEER REPORT.
YOU CAN GET A REPORT FROM A LOCAL BUILDING OFFICIAL.
WE'LL, SUFFICE THAT'S HIS OPTIONS.
I GUESS MY POINT OF VIEW IS IT'S, I'M NOT SEEING A WHOLE LOT ON THE APPLICANT'S SIDE.
IF THERE'S BEEN ALMOST, DON'T TAKE THIS WRONG WAY, NO EFFORT TO LOOK AT PRESERVING THE BUILDING.
AND THAT'S WHAT'S RUBBING ME THE WRONG WAY.
IT'S NOT LIKE YOU CAME TO US AND SAID, HEY, THIS IS HOW MUCH IT'S GONNA COST IF WE STABILIZE WHAT WE HAVE.
BUILD A STRUCTURE INSIDE OF THAT PRESERVE WHAT WE CAN CUT IN SOME WINDOWS, PUT SOME STUCCO ON.
THIS ASTRONOMICAL NUMBER, THIS IS WHAT IT'S GONNA COST.
IF I DEMOLISH THE BUILDING AND THIS IS WHAT I COULD DO WITH IT.
I'VE JUST, I HAVEN'T SEEN, SO IS THIS A MONEY THING? WELL, IT IS TO YOU.
I'M, I'M TRYING TO GET IT WHAT YOU JUST STATED RIGHT THERE.
IT'S JUST I HAVEN'T SEEN THE EFFORT ON YOUR PART TO PRESENT US WITH WHAT WE NEED TO MAKE A, UH, AN INFORMED DECISION.
WELL, HE'S ALREADY SPENT $30,000 ANSWERING, ANSWERING THE REQUEST OF THIS, OF THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL IN THE PAST.
SO NOT LIKE HE ISN'T, HASN'T BEEN WILLING TO DO IT, BUT YOU'RE ASKING HIM TO THROW ADDITIONAL MONEY AT SOMETHING SO THAT, SO THAT UH, BEFORE HE EVEN KNOWS THAT YOU WOULD APPROVE IT IF, IF HE, IF HE DOES SO, SO YOU DON'T APPROVE IT.
SO I'M SITTING HERE SAYING, WELL, OKAY, I'M GONNA THROW THAT MORE.
I DON'T WANNA WASTE YOUR MONEY.
I DON'T LIKE WHEN PEOPLE WASTE MONEY.
AND WE'RE KIND OF, WE'RE IN, WE'RE STUCK IN THIS CIRCULAR ARGUMENT HERE.
WELL, LET'S, IT'S ONLY TO A POINT.
AT A CERTAIN POINT, IT'LL STOP GOING IN THE CIRCLE.
THAT WILL BE Y'ALL'S DECISION.
NOT MINE, NOT THESE PEOPLE HERE.
ARE WE GONNA TABLE THIS THING OR ARE WE GONNA, IF YOU'RE TABLING IT, YOU NEED TO BEND YOUR, THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR.
NOW, NOW YOU HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR.
IF YOU WANT TO GO A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, YOU FIRST VOTE ON THIS MOTION AND THEN YOU CAN TAKE UP ANOTHER MOTION YOU WANT.
THIS, THIS CAN'T BE WITHDRAWN AT THIS POINT.
MOVING BELONGS TO THE BODY NOW.
SO YOU NEED TO ACT ON THAT MOTION AND THEN DEPENDING ON THE OUTCOME OF THAT, YOU CAN ENTERTAIN ANOTHER MOTION OR CALL.
MR. VAUGHN, UH, AM I GONNA APPROVE THAT? OKAY.
SO DENY THE APPLICATION FOR DEMOLITION COUNCIL, NEW BUSINESS.
ANYTHING ELSE WE TALK ABOUT? FANTASTIC.
I MAKE A MOTION TO ADJOURN ALL.