[00:00:03]
[I. Call to Order]
THIS A MEETING, REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING TO ORDER.[II. Roll Call – Determination of Quorum ]
POTTER, IF YOU COULD, UM, CALL THE ATTENDANCE HERE.WE ARE AT A HUNDRED PERCENT, UH,
[III. Approval of Minutes ]
APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF THE MARCH 17TH, 2021 COMMISSIONED REGULAR MEETING.ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ABOUT THAT? NOT SEEING ANY, WAS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THESE MINUTES OR MR. CHAIRMAN? I MOVE TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF MARCH 17TH, 2021.
IT'S BEEN MOVED IN SECOND AND UM, YES, I GUESS I THINK WE WERE SAYING WE'RE SUPPOSED TO POLL OURSELVES FOR THIS ONE.
MARSTEINER COMMISSIONER GORDON.
THE FLOOR IS OPEN TO CITIZEN COMMENTS ON ANYTHING.
THAT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA FOR THIS MEETING, BUT SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE HERE TO, YOU MAY BE HERE TO JUST EXPRESS YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THE, THE TOWN IN FRONT ROYAL.
NOT HEARING ANY CITIZEN COMMENTS.
[V. Public Hearings]
LIKE TO, UM, UH, OPEN, UH, THE SECTION ON PUBLIC HEARINGS.WE ACTUALLY HAVE THREE PUBLIC HEARING PUBLIC HEARING SCHEDULED.
SO I'D LIKE TO OPEN THE FIRST ONE.
IT'S A REZONING APPLICATION NUMBER F R R E Z O N 2 6 4 1 DASH 2 0 2.
ONE SUBMITTED BY JASON AND CHRISTINE SIGN REQUESTING THE AMENDMENT OF THE ZONING MAP AND THE TOWN OF FRONT BROIL ZONING ORDINANCE TO RECLASSIFY FROM WARREN COUNTY TAX MAP, PARCEL 2 0 4 1 4 TOTALING 0.74 ACRES FROM THE LIMITED INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT.
I ONE, TWO RESIDENTIAL DISTRICT ARE TWO.
UM, MR. MR. BROCK, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD ABOUT THAT? WOULD YOU LIKE TO GIVE US MORE BACKGROUND? YES.
SO THE SUMMARY OF THE REQUEST, THE APPLICATION FOR REVIEW PURPOSES OR PROPOSES TO REZONE, APPROXIMATELY 0.7, FOUR ACRES FROM
THE STATED PURPOSE OF THE REZONING REQUEST IS TO ALLOW FOR THE USE OF THE PROPERTY FOR RESIDENTIAL.
NO PROFITS WERE MADE BY THIS APPLICANT.
AS YOU STATED, THE PROPERTY OWNERS ARE JASON AND CHRIS CHRISTIE SIGN, WHICH ARE LOCATED AT, IN THE GALLERY.
UM, CURRENTLY IT'S ZONED I ONE PROPOSED ZONING ART TO, UM, THE LOCATION.
THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF CROSBY ROAD, BETWEEN EAST EIGHTH STREET TO THE NORTH AND EAST SIXTH STREET TO THE SOUTH, THE PROPERTY ABUTS, THE RAILROAD ON ITS ENTIRE EASTERN SIDE OF THE EXTENT EXTENDS BEYOND TWO PARCELS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE MAP ON THE SCREEN, ARE WE PROVIDED A COUPLE OF LOCATIONS, SCROLL DOWN TO THE SECOND ONE.
UM, UH, IN YOUR APP, IN YOUR PACKETS, YOU HAVE THE APPLICATION DOCUMENTS, UM, THE APPLICATION, THE PLATTE AND LETTER OF STATEMENT OF JUSTIFICATION.
UH, I WON'T READ EVERYTHING WORD FOR WORD.
UM, THE STATEMENT OF JUSTIFICATION, UM, THE LETTER STATES, THIS APPLICATION FOR REZONING IS SO THAT I CAN FIND SOME WAY TO UTILIZE MY LAND.
THERE'S A SEVERE SHORTAGE OF LAND IN TOWN TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IT WOULD BENEFIT THE TOWN IN THAT A PIECE OF A VACANT, ODD SHAPED LAND WOULD NOW BE GENERATED MORE IN REAL ESTATE TAXES.
IF THERE WERE RESIDENTS IS ON THERE, I FEEL THE INDUSTRIAL ZONING THAT IS CURRENTLY ON THIS ROAD IS INAPPROPRIATE.
WE ARE REQUESTING A REZONING, SO THE LAND CAN BE ACTUALLY BE USED.
UM, THERE'S ONLY AN ORDINANCE IN YOUR PACKET, THE APPLICATION, UH, PROPOSES TO RE RECLASSIFY ONE PARCEL TOTALLY.
AND APPROXIMATELY 0.7, FOUR ACRES FROM
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LIMITED INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT TO RESIDENTIAL ARE TO THE STATEMENT OF INTENT OF THE TWO IDENTIFIED ZONING DISTRICTS AS SET FORTH IN THE FRONT ROYAL ZONING ORDINANCE ARE AS FOLLOWS THETHE PRIMARY PURPOSES OF THE
MOBILE HOMES FOR RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES ARE PROHIBITED, PROHIBITED, BUT MAYBE USE FOR CERTAIN OTHER USES.
AS STATED BELOW THE R TWO DISTRICT ZONING ORDINANCE, 1 75 DASH 19.
OUR TWO DISTRICTS IS COMPOSED OF MEDIUM DENSITY, CONCENTRATIONS OF RESIDENTIAL USES AND OPEN AREAS WHERE SIMILAR SIMILAR DEVELOPMENTS APPEARS LIKELY TO OCCUR.
THE STANDARDS FOR THIS DISTRICT ARE DESIGNATED TO STABILIZE AND PROTECT THE ESSENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE AREA.
SO DESIGNATED AND TO PROTECT AND ENCOURAGE.
AND SO FAR AS COMPATIBLE WITH AN INTENSITY OF LAND.
UM, I WON'T CONTINUE READING ON, SO THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE
RESIDENTIAL USES ARE NOT PERMITTED EXCEPT FOR CARETAKER QUARTERS INTENDED FOR INDUSTRIAL INDUSTRIES TO LOCATE NEAR LABOR SUPPLY.
THE R TWO DISTRICT RESIDENTIAL MEDIUM DENSITY USES ARE THE PRIMARY INTENT USE USES OF THE PROPERTIES, LIMITED SELECTION OF COMMERCIAL AND ORGANIZATIONAL USE AND USES LIMITED ABOVE AND PRIMARY TO SERVE RESIDENTS OF THE DISTRICT.
YOU ALL CAN READ THE ZONING IN SURROUNDING LAND USE, UH, THE TOWN COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
CURRENTLY THE PROPERTY IS IN THE ROYAL PLANNING AREA.
THE ROYAL PLANNING AREA CONSISTS OF SEVERAL ZONING DISTRICTS.
IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT MANY OF THE C1 ZONE LOTS CON CONSISTS PRIMARILY PRIMARILY OF RESIDENTIAL PLAN USES THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP, THE TOWN OF FRONT RURAL COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FUTURE LAND USE MAP CHAPTER SHOWS THE PARCEL OF THE REVIEW BEING LOCATED WITHIN THE ROYAL PLANNING AREA AND SHOWS THE PROPOSED FUTURE LAND USE AS SINGLE FAMILY, RESIDENTIAL MEDIUM DENSITY.
THIS LAND USE PATTERN CREATES AN ENCLAVE OF RESIDENTIAL LAND USES AMONG THE DOMINANT COMMERCIAL LAND USES.
SEE FUTURE LAND USE MAP WITH A PULL UP.
UM, DO EITHER, UH, I ASSUME THE SCIENCE, OR DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO, UM, SHARE WITH US? WE'VE OWNED THE PARCEL FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS ORIGINALLY, WE PURCHASED IT TO HAVE EXTRA LAND FOR OUR KIDS.
WE WERE LIVING IN FRONT ROW AT THE TIME AND PLANTING GARDENS, DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT.
UM, OVER THE YEARS, WE, WE NO LONGER LIVE IN THE AREA.
UM, MY FATHER-IN-LAW AND MY BROTHER LIVE IN THE HOUSE THAT, UH, SEVEN, 13 CROSBY ROAD THAT WE OWN.
AND THEN MY NEPHEW ALSO LIVES IN THE NEXT HOUSE.
THAT'S ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE ROAD.
UM, THERE ARE SEVERAL HOMES ACROSS THE STREET, SO THIS IS A DOMINANTLY RESIDENTIAL STREET.
UM, AND THE RIVER THAT IS BEHIND THERE IS NOT REALLY IN USE ANYMORE, OTHER THAN THE PARK OF THE OCCASIONAL RAILROAD CAR, IF IT'S COMING OFF, YOU KNOW, JUST A TRANSFER CARS.
UM, SO WE WOULD LIKE TO FIND A USAGE FOR IT.
UM, ORIGINALLY WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE A ROW OF THREE TOWN HOMES, UM, BUT DUE TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE LOT IN THE FACT THAT WE WANT TO MAKE THE DIVIDING LINES, EVEN WE SPOKE WITH JOE BROGAN, THE SURVEYOR AND BARACK OR CONSTRUCTION, AND WE CAME BACK WITH A DUPLEX, JUST DOING THE DUPLEX OF TOWNHOMES.
UM, I DO THINK IT WOULD BE A NICE ASSET TO THE AREA.
UH, WE DO PLAN ON SELLING THEM AFTER THEY ARE CONSTRUCTED, SO IT WOULD GENERATE SOME TAX REVENUE.
UM, SO I THINK IT WOULD BE A WIN-WIN FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED.
SO YOU ARE PLANNING ON BUILDING THE UNITS THEN? YES, SIR.
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THE, GIVEN THE PECULIAR SHAPE OF THE LOT, AND YOU'RE SAYING TWO TOWNHOMES, HOW WILL THEY BOTH BE ACCESSED? SO, UM, IT IS STREET FRONTAGE THERE.UM, THE HOMES THAT ARE SITUATED ON THAT LOT, UM, SEVEN, 13 CROSBY ROAD AND SEVEN 17 CROSBY ROAD, UM, THEY'RE FACING THE ROAD FRONTAGE THERE.
SO OUR PLAN IS TO SUBDIVIDE THE LOTS, UM, TO WHERE WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO TAKE A PORTION OF THE LOT AND TRANSFER IT TO SEVEN 13.
SO WE COULD STILL HAVE THAT ODD SHAPE PORTION, JUST MAKE STRAIGHT LINES THAT GO BACK.
UM, AND THEN EACH TOWN HOME WOULD HAVE THEIR SEPARATE LEVEL.
IF YOU SEE HOW IT'S STRUCTURED ACTUALLY ON THE ONE THAT IS A SURVEY FROM JOE BURROW GRAN, UM, YOU CAN SEE SEVEN, 17 AND SEVEN 13 HERE.
UM, SO OUR PLAN IS JUST TO TAKE THE LINE STRAIGHT BACK AND THEN EACH TOWN HOME WOULD HAVE A STRAIGHT PARCEL LINE.
AND IT IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S THREE QUARTERS OF AN ACRE, SO THERE'S PLENTY OF LAND TO DO THAT WHEN WE'RE ONLY BUILDING TWO TOWNHOMES.
SO, SO THE CURRENT STRUCTURES OF SEVEN, 13 AND SEVEN 17 THEY'RE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, SEVEN 13 AS A TWO-STORY HOME.
UM, MOSTLY OTHER HOMES ON THAT STREET ARE ACTUALLY CAPE COD.
SO THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, ONE OR TWO STORY IF YOU COUNT THE DORMERS.
UM, SO THAT'S WHERE WE WERE GOING TO TALK TO BARAC OR IF WE NEED TO KEEP THE TOWN HOMES, TWO STORIES TO CONVEY, WE'RE WILLING TO DO THAT.
UM, WE WERE ALSO CONSIDERING THREE STORIES IF WE WERE TO ADD A GARAGE UNDERNEATH OF THEM.
SO THE CURRENT HOUSES WILL GO NOW, THE CURRENT HOUSE IS ON SEVEN, 13 AND SEVEN 17.
WE'RE JUST GOING TO BUILD A DUPLEX, WHICH IS TWO TOWNHOMES TOGETHER.
COMMISSIONER MARSHMALLOW IN YOUR PACKET, THERE'S ACTUALLY A ROUGH DRAFT OF, OF ONE DUPLEX WITH SETBACK INFORMATION, THAT LITTLE RED THING.
UH, IF THERE ARE NO OTHER COMMENTS I'D LIKE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND, UM, LET'S SEE WHAT WE MAY HAVE, UH, FOR, UH, QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS AMONG, AMONGST US ANY
I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS, COMMENTS.
UM, OF COURSE THIS IS AN INDUSTRIAL AREA.
UH, I'M CERTAINLY NOT OPPOSED TO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO HERE, BUT WE DO HAVE BING CROSBY STADIUM, WHICH THE LIGHTS ARE ON UNTIL LATE AT NIGHT.
WE DO HAVE, UH, THE CARNIVAL GROUNDS, WHICH ARE ADJACENT TO THIS PROPERTY.
UM, IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE COULD HAVE SOME WAY TO NOTIFY PROSPECTIVE PURCHASERS OF THAT, BUT THERE REALLY IS NO WAY.
I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT PORTER THE RECORD THAT, UH, THAT THERE ARE INDUSTRIAL USERS AROUND THERE, WHICH IS A REASON THAT IT IS ZONED, UH, TO, UM, AND STAFF, UH, UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NOT IN THE FLOOD PLAIN.
THAT WAS NOT LISTED IN THE REPORT.
UH, AND YOU MENTIONED NO PROFFERS, UH, NORMALLY IN A REZONING, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STAFF LOOKS AT AND THE PLAN OF COMMISSION IS ANY IMPACT, A CHANGE IN ZONING WOULD HAVE ON THE, UH, UH, OUR COST IMPACT TO THE TOWN.
UM, I ASSUME WE DON'T NEED ANY ROAD RIGHT AWAY, OR THERE'S NO IMPACT ON THE SCHOOLS OR, UH, ANYTHING ALONG THAT LINE, UH, TO REQUIRE PROFFERS BASED ON THE REVIEW FROM THE OTHER TOWN AGENCIES, PUBLIC WORKS AND ENERGY SERVICES, WE DIDN'T RECEIVE ANY COMMENTS OF THAT SORT THAT WOULD NEGATIVELY AFFECT, UM, INFRASTRUCTURE SCHOOLS.
DID THE COUNTY COMMENT ON, SORRY.
WE NORMALLY SEND REZONING, EXCUSE ME, DO WE NOT? OKAY.
WELL, THERE'S NOT, IT'S NOT A HUGE THOUSAND LOT SUBDIVISION, BUT I THINK STAFF DOES NEED TO BE AWARE THAT WE FIRST AND, AND WHAT WE NEED THEM FOR.
I HAVE A ONE QUESTION, MR. HAS THERE BEEN A CONSIDERATION GIVEN TO, I MEAN, THE SETBACKS HERE WITH THE, UH, RAILROADS PROPERTY WITH, UH, WITH THIS, UH, WITH THIS DEPICTION,
[00:15:05]
BOTH HAVE BEEN OUT AND WE HAVE REVIEWED THE SET BACK FOR THE RAILROAD DUE TO THE NATURE OF A LOT, ORIGINALLY TALKING ABOUT A ROW THREE OR FOUR, AND WE'VE TAKEN IT NOW TO JUST A DUPLEX WITH TWO.UM, I DON'T HEAR ANY OTHER, UM, ANY OTHER COMMENTS MAYBE WITH ME? WE HAVE A MOTION.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION FURTHER RECOMMENDATION OF APPROVAL.
SO TOWN COUNCIL TO REZONE THE 0.74 ACRE SITE TAX MAP, PARCEL 2 0 4 DASH ONE DASH FOUR AND IDENTIFIED IN THE APPLICATION FROM, I LIMITED INDUSTRIAL TO OUR TWO RESIDENTIAL.
IT'S BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED, UM, AS PRODUCT TO DO, UH, CANVAS TOWER, UM, VOTES COMMISSIONER GORDON.
THAT, UM, IS APPROVED THE, UH, SECOND, UM, UH, ITEM.
NOW I'D LIKE TO, UM, UM, TO OPEN THE, UM, DISCUSSION FOR A ZONING ORDINANCE, TEXT AMENDMENT NUMBER F R A Z O R D A M 25, 19 DASH 2120.
AND THE SHADE BY RESOLUTION OF THE FRONT ROYAL TOWN COUNCIL.
THE PURPOSES OF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS ARE TO CHANGE THE USE, UM, REGULATIONS OF THE C2 DOWNTOWN BUSINESS DISTRICT, PERTAINING TO THE ADMINISTRATIVE PERMITTING, UH, RESIDENTIAL UNITS AND THE SPECIAL USE PERMITTING OF APARTMENTS BY THE TOWN COUNCIL.
SO, UH, MR. BROCK, WOULD YOU GIVE US, UH, PERHAPS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THAT? YES.
SO BASICALLY, UM, DURING THE WORK SESSION, WE PROPOSE SOME AMENDMENTS TO THE, UM, C2 DOWNTOWN BUSINESS DISTRICT.
UM, AND SO WE DO HAVE COPIES WHERE YOU ALL HAVE COPIES OF THE ACTUAL RED LINES AND RECOMMENDED CHANGES TO THE CODE SECTIONS.
UM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I DIDN'T KNOW YOU WANTED TO GO THROUGH EACH ONE OF THEM INDIVIDUALLY OR EACH SECTION.
I DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S BEEN DONE IN THE PAST WITH TEXT AMENDMENTS, SO, YEAH.
IT'S RECOMMENDED WE, WE, UH, WE DO THE GO AHEAD AND OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING, UH, FIRST AND, UM, I WILL, I THINK I DID OPEN THAT PUBLIC HERE.
I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING FOR THAT.
UM, WAS THAT IT WAS THAT A HAND UP? OH, OKAY.
THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN AND PLANNING COMMISSION.
UH, I'M REALLY VERY PLEASED TO SEE THIS, UH, ISSUE, UH, CONSIDERED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND THE TOWN COUNCIL.
THIS IS, UH, SOMETHING HAS NEEDED TO BE DONE FOR, UH, A COUPLE OF DECADES.
UH, WE'VE HAD NO LEGAL APARTMENT BUILDINGS OF ANY SIZE BUILT IN, IN FRONT ROYAL FOR MANY YEARS.
WE'VE HAD THEM REBUILT AND RECONSTRUCTED, BUT WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY BECAUSE OF THE ONEROUS REQUIREMENTS ON THIS.
I'VE BEEN DOING, UH, BEEN DOING DEVELOPMENT IN DOWNTOWN FRONT ROYAL SINCE 1983, MY LATE WIFE AND I RESTORED SEVEN OF THE BUILDINGS ON GESTURE STREET BACK BACKWARD WAS ONE OF THE WORST STREETS IN TOWN AND IT KIND OF TIPPED THE SCALE SO THAT LESS RISK FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
AND THEN EVERYBODY FIXED IT UP.
THE TOWN REPLACED, THE SIDEWALK, MADE THE STREET MORE WALKABLE AND LIVABLE AND LIGHTING AND STUFF.
AND SO IT'S SOMETHING I'M VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT IS I WANT TO SEE PEOPLE BE ABLE TO LIVE IN, IN FRONT ROW DOWNTOWN.
AND, UH, THIS, UH, THIS, THE ONLY THING NEGATIVE THAT I'VE HEARD ANYBODY COMMENT ON THIS ORDINANCE IS THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF REQUIREMENTS THAT YOU NORMALLY ASSOCIATE WITH THIS KIND OF THING.
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UH, BUT BECAUSE THE UP TO EIGHT APARTMENT UNITS CAN BE APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY BY THE, BY THE TOWN PLANNER OR MAYBE, UH, I THINK THEY MAY HAVE CHANGED IT TO THE TOWN MANAGER, UH, THE, UH, ANY LARGE, ANYTHING LARGER THAN THAT HAS TO BE DONE ON A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.SO, SO, SO THE PLANNING STAFF, AND YOU WILL HAVE, UH, COMPLETE, UH, COMPLETE CONTROL OVER WHAT IT BECOMES AND THE TOWN COUNCIL WILL HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER WHAT IT BECOMES AND WHAT REQUIREMENTS ARE NEEDED.
AND SO IT DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO ME TO HAVE LAYER UPON LAYER OF THINGS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE CONTROL OVER UNDER A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT.
ANYHOW, UH, FRONT ROW HAS FOR OVER A DECADE, UH, WANTED TO SAY, UH, THEY, THE COUNCIL AND THE PLANNING COMMISSION, I BELIEVE, BUT I KNOW THE COUNCIL HAS SAID THAT THEY WANT IT TO HAVE WORKFORCE HOUSING DOWNTOWN, AND THEY WANTED TO HAVE PLACES WHERE PEOPLE COULD BE WORK CUSTOMERS FOR THE MERCHANTS DOWNTOWN GOOD LIVE.
AND, AND, UH, I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON, UH, DEVELOPING MAIN STREET THROUGH MY CLIENTS OVER THE LAST, UH, FIVE YEARS.
AND, UH, WE'VE, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, MAIN STREET IS A VERY DIFFERENT PLACE NOW WORKING THERE.
UH, I DECIDED UNLIKE GESTURE STREET, UH, WHEN MY WIFE AND I WERE DOING IT ON HER OWN, I DECIDED TO DO STUFF AND MAIN STREET WITH OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY FOR A CHANGE.
AND SO, UH, BUT IT'S WORKED OUT VERY WELL AND I'VE BEEN BLESSED.
UH, BUT NOW THESE PEOPLE NEED MORE CUSTOMERS THAT LIVE DOWNTOWN AND A WAY TO DO IT IS TO, BY ALLOWING PEOPLE TO REBUILD, UH, TO USING THE EXISTING FOOTPRINTS OF, UH, EXISTING BUILDINGS IN THE C2 DISTRICT AND EVERYTHING TO, UH, TO HAVE, UH, APARTMENTS.
NOW, I WOULDN'T CHANGE NOTHING IN THIS THAT I'VE READ WITH JANE, ANYTHING ABOUT HAVING, HAVING THE APARTMENTS, UH, ONLY ON THE SECOND AND HIGHER FLOORS, IT STILL HAS TO BE, IT STILL HAS TO BE USED FOR RETAIL OFFICE AND THE NORMAL RETAIL USES ON THE FIRST FLOORS OF THE BUILDING THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO CHANGE THAT AT ALL.
SO IT'S, UH, SO SINCE PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO COME TO BOTH GOVERNING BODIES FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ACTUALLY UTILIZE THIS, THESE CHANGES THAT ARE IN HERE, UH, THEY'VE GOTTA BE PREPARED TO MAKE A GOOD CASE FOR THEIR PROJECT, EVERYTHING, AND KIND OF BE PREPARED TO, TO, UH, MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE SET BEFORE THEM.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION.
UH, I HAVE A QUESTION, UH, WHAT HAS BEEN THE TREND OF USAGE OF THOSE, UH, SECOND STORY BUILDINGS ON A MAIN AND JUST CHESTER, UH, YOU'VE BEEN AROUND QUITE AWHILE.
IT HAS, HAS IT USED, HAS BEEN INCREASING OR DECREASING OR VACANT OR, WELL, HE'S RIGHT.
I HAVE BEEN AROUND QUITE A WHILE.
UH, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A COLLECTION OF OLD FRONT ROW PHONE BOOKS AND FRONT ROW DIRECTORIES.
SO IF YOU, I WAS LOOKING RECENTLY AT THE PHONE BOOKS FROM 1961 AND 1964 AND 65, AND THEN COMPARING IT TO HOW IT WAS IN THE, IN THE LATE SEVENTIES AND THE, IN THE 60 IN THE SIXTIES PHONE BOOKS.
THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT I IMMEDIATELY RECOGNIZED THEIR NAMES AS, AS A BUSINESS PEOPLE AND TRADESPEOPLE AND PEOPLE WHO, WHO WERE REALLY WELL RESPECTED IN THE COMMUNITY, LIVED IN THESE APARTMENTS ON MAIN STREET AND, UH, TEACHERS.
AND THERE WAS, UH, AND THERE WERE INSURANCE PEOPLE AND ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT PROFESSIONS.
IT WAS, UH, THERE WAS A LOT OF THEM THAT LIVED ON THAT, BUT THEN WHEN YOU START GETTING UP INTO THE MID, LATE SEVENTIES THAT STARTED DISAPPEARING AND EVERYTHING, AND IT STARTED TO BE LIKE A LOW RENT DISTRICT.
AND I THINK THIS WOULD OPERATE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE, CREATE A HOUSING THAT WOULD BE, UH, THAT WOULD BE MORE AVAILABLE, YOU KNOW, BIG AND SAFE.
AND, UH, AND I THINK THAT BY DOING THIS, WE COULD END UP WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, APARTMENTS WITH, WITH SECURITY AND ELEVATORS AND, AND THINGS THAT PEOPLE LOOK, LOOK FOR IN FRONT ROYAL AND WARREN COUNTY.
WE HAVE VERY, VERY LITTLE HOUSING THAT FOR ELDERLY ELDERLY PEOPLE GIVES THEM A CHOICE BETWEEN A SINGLE FAMILY HOME AND ASSISTED LIVING, WHICH ARE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS DIFFERENCE PER MONTH AND EVERYTHING.
[00:25:01]
WE'RE LOSING A LOT OF OUR, A LOT OF OUR SENIOR CITIZENS, WHICH IS A BIG BASE OF VOLUNTEERS IN EVERY COMMUNITY, EVERYTHING WE'RE LOSING THEM TO THE SURROUNDING COUNTIES, WHERE THEY, WHERE THEY ALLOW PATIO HOMES AND, AND HAVE MORE APARTMENTS, UH, AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.SO I THINK THAT, UH, I THINK WE'RE LOSING VALUABLE RESOURCES.
WE ALSO HAVE VERY LITTLE PROPERTY FOR, UH, THE, UH, OF UN-SUBSIDIZED UNGOVERNED, SUBSIDIZED APARTMENTS FOR, UH, YOUNG PEOPLE STARTING OFF IN THEIR FIRST HOME.
AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S, UH, I THINK THERE'S SOME OPPORTUNITIES HERE TO ALLOW THE MARKETPLACE TO CREATE, TO CREATE, UH, THINGS THAT, UH, FRONT RULE NEEDS.
AND, AND I THINK IT WILL HELP OUR BUSINESS COMMUNITY THRIVE.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU IN PRINCIPLE THAT FRONT ROYAL NEEDS OF, UH, APARTMENTS, CONDOS, UH, ENTRY-LEVEL HOUSING, UH, FIRST TIME OWNERS, STARTER HOMES, DEFINITELY.
YOU WENT THROUGH A BIG LIST OF THINGS.
THEY'RE SENIORS, SENIOR HOUSING, UH, THE STARTER HOMES, HOUSING, UM, SECURITY ELEVATORS.
UM, ARE YOU PLANNING TO TEAR DOWN A LOT OF BUILDINGS ON MAIN STREET TO DO ALL THIS? I'M NOT, NO, UH, NO.
WHEN I'M, AND I'M, I LOVE HISTORIC PROPERTIES I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN RESTORING HISTORIC PROPERTIES.
UH, SO, UH, DEPENDING ON WHAT, YOU KNOW, HOW CONTRIBUTING THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY ARE, BUT I THINK THERE SHOULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, TO, UH, REDO SOME OF THE BUILDINGS THAT WE HAVE FOR, FOR A HIGHER AND BETTER USE.
LIKE SOME OF THESE BUILDINGS HAD BEEN REPURPOSED EVERY 20 YEARS FOR SINCE 18 HUNDREDS.
UH, SO THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN REPURPOSED AND EVERYTHING FOR, FOR OTHER THINGS.
SO, UH, AND SO, UH, BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THAT WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE, OF THE, UH, HISTORIC DISTRICT ORDINANCES AND WITH THE, UH, AND WITHIN THE, YOU KNOW, ALL THE OTHER RULES THAT APPLY TO THEM.
SO IT'S NOT LIKE SOMEBODY CAN THIS WALL, THIS DOESN'T GIVE ANYBODY PERMISSION TO DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT AT ALL, BUT IT DOES ALLOW SOMEBODY TO INVEST IN DOWNTOWN FRONT ROYAL AND, AND, UH, AND, YOU KNOW, UH, COME UP WITH PROPOSALS THAT HOPEFULLY WILL MAKE SENSE TO YOU AND TO THE OTHER PEOPLE IN CHARGE.
AND WHO'S YOUR TARGET AUDIENCE FOR THESE APARTMENTS? WHO'S YOUR TARGET CLIENT BASE FOR THE PROPERTY OWNERS OR FOR THE APARTMENTS? WELL, FOR THE APARTMENTS THAT YOU'RE PLANNING TO BUILD THE, UH, I THINK A MIXTURE IS A HEALTHY THING TO HAVE.
I DON'T THINK I WOULD WANT TO HAVE JUST ONE THING.
I WOULDN'T WANT TO HAVE ALL SENIORS OR, OR ALL, UH, YOUNG PEOPLE JUST STARTING OFF IN THEIR FIRST OR, OR YOUNG OR YOUNG PROFESSIONALS.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU COULD HAVE, I MEAN, IF YOU HAVE A MULTI-LEVEL, IF YOU HAVE A MULTI-LEVEL BUILDING, YOU COULD HAVE A, YOU MIGHT WANT A SENIOR FLOOR, BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK YOU, UH, I THINK THAT HAVING THE INNER MIXING OF, OF PEOPLE IN, UH, ECONOMICALLY AND ETHNICALLY AND, AND AGE WISE IS A HEALTHY THING.
UM, IF I COULD ASK SOMETHING MORE, UH, JUST ASK YOU TO COMMENT ON SOMETHING, UM, HAD A CONVERSATION IN THE PARKING LOT OF GROCERY STORE A COUPLE DAYS AGO ON THIS MATTER.
AND SOMEBODY SAID SHE HAD SEEN SOMETHING AND I DON'T KNOW WHO SHE WAS.
SAID SHE HAD SEEN SOMETHING ON FACEBOOK, UM, WHICH I'M NOT HABITUAL WAY OF, UM, ABOUT 60 APARTMENTS ON MAIN STREET.
CAN YOU COMMENT ON THAT PLEASE? WE'VE ACTUALLY DONE PRESENTATIONS TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND TO THE BOARD OF ARCHITECTURE REVIEW AND TO THE TOWN COUNCIL ABOUT THAT.
I'VE ALSO SEEN ON FACEBOOK 6,000 APARTMENTS AND 600.
SO LIKE I SAID, THERE ISN'T A, THERE ISN'T A NUMBER YET BECAUSE IT HAS TO, UH, W WE HAVEN'T SPENT THE MONEY TO DO THE ENGINEERING AND FEASIBILITY, UH, TO, TO HAVE IT WORK AND SEE WHAT WE HAVE TO DO NO SENSE IN SPENDING A LOT OF MONEY ON SOMETHING, IF IT'S ILLEGAL TODAY.
AND DID YOU MAKE IT, YOU SAID YOU MADE A PRESENTATION TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION PLANNING COMMISSION.
WHEN DID YOU DO THAT? I'M NOT A VERY ACCURATE HISTORIAN BECAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER.
THAT WAS JUST THE BAR YOU TOWN COUNCIL AND OKAY.
MAYBE WE JUST DID A TOWN COUNCIL IN THE BAR.
[00:30:01]
BECAUSE WE WANTED TO SEE IF, IF THE TOWN COUNCIL AND THE BAR HAD ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST IN IT, THEN THERE WAS NO SENSE IN, WE DIDN'T DO A, WE DIDN'T SEEK PERMISSION OR ANYTHING.WE WERE JUST SEEKING FACTS, TRYING TO TEST THE WATERS TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY INTEREST IN HOW EXTENSIVE WAS YOUR PRESENTATION, HOW I WISH I HAD SEEN IT.
I'D BE HAPPY TO SEND IT TO YOU.
I THINK I HAVE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS, SIR.
OR EVEN, WOULD ANYBODY ELSE LIKE TO SEE IT HERE? YEAH.
THIS, THIS, THE FOREST TONIGHT IS REALLY NOT ANYBODY SEEKING APARTMENT APPROVAL.
IT SAYS, CREATE THE ORDINANCE FOR THAT CONCEPT, BUT TO TRY TO GET SPECIFICS ON A PROJECT THAT MAY OR MAY NOT EXIST, DID YOU GIVE SPECIFICS IN THOSE OTHER PRESENTATIONS? NO.
WE DIDN'T GIVE SPECIFIC THAT WE DON'T, WE HAVEN'T DEVELOPED A SPECIFIC YET.
SO WE COULD FIND OUT IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE TOWN OF FRONT ROW IS INTERESTED IN, AND WE WERE PLEASED, THEY WERE VERY INTERESTED IN, SO IT WAS JUST A CONCEPT PLAN.
THAT'S ALL, IT WAS SOME POWERPOINT SLIDES.
SO, UH, WE MAY STILL HAVE, HAVE IT IN OUR OFFICE.
IF NOT, YOU CAN EMAIL IT TO ME AND I CAN GET IT OUT TO THE
IT'S A, IT'S JUST AN IDEA OF TRYING TO, UH, TEST THE WATERS AND EVERYTHING.
CAUSE YOU, UH, YOU CAN, YOU CAN GET INTO THESE THINGS, UH, NECK, NECK, DEEP, AND EVERYTHING, AND FIND OUT THAT YOU IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS NOT ONE IT.
AND SO IT DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE TO EXPEND GREAT DEALS OF MONEY, AND YOU CAN DO THAT VERY QUICKLY AND ENGINEERING AND, AND, UH, AND ARCHITECTURAL STUDIES.
BUT I'VE REALLY, WHEN I WAS TALKING TO THEM ABOUT GETTING THIS ORDINANCE, CHANGE IT IN THE, IN THE COURSE OF WORKING ON THIS, IT WAS DISCOVERED THAT THAT, AND I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I WOULD HOPE THE PLANNING COMMISSION AND TOWN COUNCIL ARE WORKING ON TO CHANGE THE APARTMENT ORDINANCE THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE TOWN, BECAUSE THIS ORDINANCE WAS CLEARLY PUT IN AT SOME POINT, BECAUSE SOMEBODY DID NOT WANT ANY APARTMENTS IN FRONT ROW BUILT IN FRONT OF OIL BECAUSE IT MAKES IT, UH, THERE'S ONLY A FEW PARCELS IN FRONT RURAL WHERE THERE, YOU COULD EVEN HAVE ROOM TO PUT IT UNDER THIS ORDINANCE.
SO, SO, UM, THE, UH, SO I WASN'T REALLY THINKING ABOUT IT JUST FOR THAT.
ONCE I SAW THAT IT WAS A PROBLEM, UH, I COULD HAVE SOUGHT PERHAPS IN JUST A SPECIAL USE PERMIT AND GOING AROUND IT, BUT I DON'T LIKE TO DO THAT.
I LIKE TO ADDRESS THINGS THAT IF THERE'S SOMETHING IN A CODE THAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED, I LIKE TO WORK ON IT TO GET A CHANGE.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR US TOO, ET CETERA.
UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, COMMENT FOR STAFF.
I LIKE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING NOW.
UM, DURING THE WORK SESSION WE HAD TALKED ABOUT INCLUDING, UH, THE DEFINITION OF CONVERSION, UM, SIMILAR TO HOW DEVELOPMENT IS DEFINED, UM, JUST THAT, I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE INCLUDED AS WE, UM, YOU KNOW, PASS THIS TEXT A MINT, UH, YEAH.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? AND I'M WONDERING IF THIS IS, I MEAN, FORGIVE ME IF I'M SHOWING MY IGNORANCE HERE, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE THIS IS ASKING US TO WRITE A BLANK CHECK.
I JUST DON'T FEEL LIKE I HAVE ENOUGH KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHAT'S, WHAT'S DRIVING THIS AND WHERE THIS MIGHT LEAD.
AND I'M TOTALLY COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
MY TAKE ON THIS IS THAT IT IS ALLOWING FOR BUILDINGS THAT CURRENTLY EXIST TO ADMINISTRATIVELY, UM, ALLOW FOR EIGHT APARTMENTS.
AND WE ARE ALLOWING FOR A NEW DEVELOPMENT TO EXIST ON A SMALLER PARCEL OF LAND, BUT NEW DEVELOPMENT WOULD STILL HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE EXISTING, UM, UH, SECTION FOUR OF THE, SORRY, SECTION 1 75, 1 13, ALL OF THOSE REGULATIONS WOULD STILL APPLY TO A NEW DEVELOPMENT.
[00:35:01]
NOT A BLANK CHECK IT'S ALLOWING FOR, UM, MORE EASILY TO CONVERT EXISTING BUILDINGS, BUT NOT BUILD WHATEVER YOU WANT IS GOOD.NO, THAT'S WHAT I WAS COMMENTING TO STAFF IS I THINK WE NEED A DEFINITION.
NO, I DON'T HAVE A DEFINITION TO PROPOSE TONIGHT.
UM, IF I MAY SPEAK, UM, CONNIE, I SHARE YOUR CONCERN OVER THIS DOCUMENT, AS WELL AS, UH, COMMISSIONER GORDON'S, UH, COMMENTS ON THAT.
UM, FIRST OFF, I WANT TO SAY THAT I'M NEITHER FOR, OR AGAINST DEPARTMENTS IN THE C2 DISTRICT.
OUR ROLE AS A PLANNING COMMISSION AND THIS INCIDENT IS TO TAKE THE RESOLUTION PASSED BY OUR TOWN COUNCIL AND CRAFT THAT INTO AN ORDINANCE THAT NEEDS THEIR DESIRES AND WHAT THEY VIEW AS IMPORTANT IN THIS TOWN.
UM, IF I MAY READ, UH, THEY'VE GIVEN US THE TASK TO INITIATE AMENDMENTS TO THE BY RIGHT AND SPECIAL USE PERMIT REGULATION, REGULATIONS OF THE C2 DISTRICT PERTAINING TO APARTMENTS AND OTHER MULTIFAMILY DWELLINGS.
I'M GLAD WE HAVE COUNSEL HERE TONIGHT.
CAUSE I DO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS.
IF, IF WE COULD TURN TO THE FIRST ITEM OF THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE AMENDMENT, THE FIRST CHANGE WE WANT TO MAKE IS UNDER WHAT YOU CALL SECTION ONE, OR SECTION ONE SEVENTY FIVE FORTY SEVEN, A WHICH ALLOWS BY RIGHT CONVERSION OF EXISTING RESIDENTIAL AND OR COMMERCIAL STRUCTURES INTO BUILDINGS WITH A GREATER NUMBER OF DWELLING UNITS, NOT EXCEEDING EIGHT TOTAL EXISTING AND NEW DWELLING UNITS COMBINED THE TEXT AND RED IS WHAT THEY ADDED BEFORE IT WAS THIS CONVERSION.
NOW STAFF CORRECT ME IF I'M, IF I'M INCORRECT, BUT THIS APPLIES TO THE ENTIRE C2 DISTRICT, NOT JUST MAIN STREET AND, UH, CHESTER STREET.
IS THAT CORRECT? YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
UH, AND, AND IT'S ONLY FOR THE CONVERSION OF EXISTING BUILDINGS.
SO IN THE BY RIGHTS STRUCTURE, THE OTHER TWO ITEMS ALLOWED OUR SINGLE FAMILY AND TWO FAMILY DWELLINGS, CORRECT? YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
UM, SO WHAT ABOUT NEW APARTMENTS STRUCTURES FOR THE ENTIRE DISTRICT? I REALIZE OUR FOCUS HAS A LOT BEEN ON JUST THAT PORTION OF HIGH DENSITY MAINE, BUT THE C TWO DISTRICT COVERS A LOT OF AREA.
SO ARE OUR NEW APARTMENT STRUCTURES NOT PERMITTED BY RIGHT.
AND THE RESIDENTIAL ZONE OF A SAY TO A DISTRICT OR AS A RESIDENTIAL USE IN A, TO THIS TOWARDS WHO KNOWS.
I HAVE TO DEFER TO THE PLANNING FOLKS ON THAT ONE.
UM, THE, THE OTHER QUESTION I HAVE WITH THAT IS WHAT ABOUT TOWNHOUSES? YOU KNOW, WE, WE HAVE ASKED THAT IN THE WORK SESSIONS, WE NEVER HAVE REVIEWED OBVIOUSLY A TOWNHOUSE AS A MULTIFAMILY.
IT IS NOT CONSIDERED A, UM, AN APARTMENT.
UM, SO, UM, SO I DO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF ISSUE WITH THAT ONE.
UH, THE NEXT ITEM WE CHANGED ON THE NEXT PAGE AT THE TOP UNDER THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT CATEGORY WE CHANGED, OR WE DELETED LOCATED IN BUILDINGS CONSTRUCTED AFTER JANUARY 1ST, 1999.
SO THE NEW CODE WOULD READ APARTMENTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE AREA REQUIREMENTS OF 1 75 49, NOWHERE HERE IN THIS SPECIAL USE, DOESN'T MENTION CONVERSION OF A BUILDING TO EIGHT OR NINE OR GREATER UNITS.
AND IF WE LOOK AT THE DEFINITION, STOP ME IF I'M GOING ON TOO MUCH HERE, IF WE LOOK AT THE DEFINITION, APARTMENT, HOUSE IS DEFINED IN OUR CODE AS THREE OR MORE, UH, DWELLING UNITS.
UH, APARTMENT DEVELOPMENT IS A
[00:40:01]
TERM THAT IS USED TO DESCRIBE MORE THAN ONE APARTMENT HOUSE ON A SINGLE PIECE OF PROPERTY.SO WE HAVE REGULATIONS FOR AN APARTMENT OR A NEW, NEW APARTMENT CONSTRUCTION, AS WELL AS AN APARTMENT DEVELOPMENT.
AND I THINK WE, WE MAY HAVE CONFUSED THAT IN THIS, IN THIS PARTICULAR CODE SECTION, BUT FOR, SO FOR A BUY RIGHT, OR EXCUSE ME, A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, ALL WE SAY IS APARTMENTS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE SECTION 1 75 49.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT 1 75 49, THE AREA REQUIREMENTS FOR LOT AREA ONLY IS A REQUIREMENT FOR A NEW STRUCTURE, CORRECT.
SO A CONVERSION UNDER OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY LAND AREA AT ALL OTHER THAN WHAT IT SITS ON.
SO SOMEHOW I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE IN THAT SPECIAL USE THAT, THAT, OR MAYBE WE DON'T, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL STILL DON'T ADDRESS APARTMENT HOUSES, APARTMENT COMPLEX, OR EXCUSE ME, APARTMENT DEVELOPMENTS OR CONVERSION.
SO I ASSUME ALL THREE OF THOSE WOULD BE USABLE BY SPECIAL USE.
UM, SO THE, THE, THE WHOLE THING, WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE AREA, THE LOT AREA WE WERE CONCERNED, BECAUSE A LOT OF THE LOTS ON MAIN STREET ARE NOT VERY BIG.
THEY'RE BASICALLY THE SIZE OF THE LOT.
AND IN A HIGH DENSITY, WE HAD DISCUSSED THIS IN A WORK SESSION.
UM, BUT AGAIN, THERE WERE OTHER AREAS OF TOWN OR OF THE C2 DISTRICT THAT ARE VACANT.
SO WE DON'T WANT TO, UH, YOU KNOW, COMPLETELY REMOVE THE AREA REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE THEY ARE, THEY'RE IMPORTANT IN OTHER PARTS OF THIS ORDINANCE.
UM, SO SOMEHOW, YOU KNOW, I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH, WITH, WITH REMOVING THE 1000 SQUARE FEET BECAUSE YEAH, SECTION 1 49, IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE NOT BUILDING A NEW STRUCTURE, NOW, MAYBE WE NEED TO DEFINE WHAT NEW STUFF ACCORDING TO COMMISSIONER GORDON, UM, IS, IS PUTTING NEW WALLS INSIDE OF EXISTING BUILDING NEW CON NEW APARTMENT.
I THINK PERSONALLY, AS LONG AS YOU BUILD ON THE SAME FOOTPRINT, YOU CAN TEAR THE OLD BUILDING DOWN WOULD BE MY OPINION, AS LONG AS YOU USE THAT SAME FOOTPRINT, BUT YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO INCREASE THAT SIZE BECAUSE SOME OF THE BUILDINGS I'M AFRAID ON MEAN WERE NOT CONSTRUCTED VERY WELL TO BEGIN WITH.
AND I WOULDN'T WANT TO HAVE MULTIPLE APARTMENTS IN A BUILDING THAT'S ABOUT READY TO FALL DOWN, BUT AS LONG AS THEY USE THAT SAME FOOTPRINT, I WOULD NOT CONSIDER THAT A NEW STRUCTURE TO ME, A NEW STRUCTURE IS SOMETHING THAT IS OCCUPYING NEW SPACE, NEVER BUY A BUILDING BEFORE.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE DEFINE THAT OR NOT, BUT, BUT, BUT BECAUSE TH THE, THE REASON I'M SO WORRIED ABOUT THIS DEFINITION, WE WERE TRYING TO LIMIT THIS ACTIVITY OF CONVERSION OF UNITS FOR GREATER THAN EIGHT UNITS TO A SPECIFIC SECTION OF MAIN STREET, CORRECT.
AND CHESTER STREET AND A PORTION OF, OF JACKSON STREET.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT SECTION 1 75, 113, YOU SEE THAT ON YOUR PAGE THERE, THE OPENING STATEMENT FOR THE, FOR THE REQUIREMENTS, THE SUPPLEMENTAL REQUIREMENTS FOR APARTMENTS, IT SAYS ALL DEPARTMENT, EXCUSE ME, ALL APARTMENT DEVELOPMENTS.
AND WE NEED TO CLEAR THIS WITH LEGAL, THAT ALL OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS ONLY PERTAIN TO A APARTMENT DEVELOPMENT.
THE APARTMENT DEVELOPMENT BEING FINED IN OUR CODE IS A LOT THAT CONTAINS MORE THAN ONE APARTMENT HOUSE.
SO THE RE THE, THE REQUIREMENTS OF SECTION 1 17, 1 13, DO NOT APPLY AT ALL TO A REUSE OR A, OR A CONVERSION OF AN EXISTING BUILDING.
AND WE'RE TRYING TO PUT IN THERE AN EXEMPTION TO A USE THAT DOESN'T EVEN, THAT ISN'T EVEN COVERED IN THE ORIGINAL PART OF THE ORDINANCE.
WE'RE BASICALLY SAYING THAT SECTION ONE 17, DOESN'T APPLY TO, TO, UM, UH, CONVERSION OF A BUILDING.
AND YET WE'RE PUTTING IN THERE THAT, THAT, YEAH, WE'RE JUST, WE'RE GOING TO PUT IT IN THERE THAT IT'S NOT EXEMPT FROM THAT.
UM, I'M NOT SURE CONVERSION EVEN COMES UNDER 1 75, 1 13 AT ALL.
[00:45:01]
NOW MAYBE I COULD BE WRONG, BUT LEGAL.WE MAY NEED TO LOOK AT THAT, BUT YOU FOLLOW WHAT I'M SAYING, THAT, THAT THOSE, THOSE REQUIREMENTS ARE MORE INTENSE BECAUSE THEY'RE FOR MORE INTENSE USE, WHICH HAS MULTIPLE APARTMENT BUILDINGS, NOT JUST APARTMENT UNITS, BUT APARTMENT BUILDINGS.
SO I THINK IN THE THAT WE NEED TO GO BACK AND, AND REWORD SOME OF THIS TO REFLECT THAT, BECAUSE AGAIN, I'M NOT FOR, OR AGAINST, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE CRAFTING THE BEST ORDINANCE WE CAN CRAFT FOR TOWN COUNCIL.
UH, THEY'VE REQUESTED THAT THEY HAVEN'T ASKED OUR OPINION ON IT.
THEY JUST SAID THEY WANT US TO CRAFT AN ORDINANCE.
AND I SEE SOME ISSUES THERE, ESPECIALLY AS A, AS A DEVELOPER.
UM, AND, AND THEN AS LAND USE, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO REALLY BE SPECIFIC WHERE WE WANT THE BUILDING, A CONVERTED BUILDING OF EIGHT OR MORE UNITS BY SPECIAL USE TO BE ALLOWED.
AND I THINK WE DO THAT UNDER THE SPECIAL USE AREA, NOT UNDER SECTION 1 75, 1 13.
DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE? THANK YOU.
I THINK, UM, THERE'S SOME GOOD POINTS HAVEN'T BEEN RAISED HERE.
UM, SO WHAT, UH, WHAT, WHAT IS YOUR, YOUR PREFERENCE OF HOW WE MIGHT MOVE FORWARD? NOW? ONE PROBLEM WE HAVE, WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS SINCE FEBRUARY.
I WILL SAY WHEN PLANET COMMISSION HAS GIVEN A TASK BY A COUNCIL, WE HAVE STAFF THAT STAFF CONSISTS OF ONE PERSON, THE PLANNING DIRECTOR.
WE DO NOT HAVE A PLANNING DIRECTOR.
WHAT WAS WRITTEN HERE WAS WRITTEN BY OUR LAST OFFICIAL HIRED PLANNING DIRECTOR AND THE LAST WEEK OF HIS EMPLOYMENT, UM, OF WHICH WE DID NOT HAVE TIME TO WORK WITH HIM AT ALL ON WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO GET AT WHAT HIS DEFINITION WAS.
I'M NOT IMPUGNING CURRENT STAFF.
YOU HAVE YOUR HANDS FULL WITH JUST NORMAL DAY-TO-DAY PLANNING OPERATIONS, BUT WRITING ORDINANCES IS A VERY DIFFICULT TASK AT BEST.
AND UNLESS WE HAVE STAFF I E IN THE FORM OF A PLANNING DIRECTOR THAT KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT CODE WRITING, IT, IT LEAVES US AT A CERTAIN DISADVANTAGE.
SO, YES, WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT THIS SINCE FEBRUARY.
WE WE'VE HAD ONE PUBLIC HEARING, BUT THAT WE'VE TABLED.
AND THIS, I, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS WILL BE CONSIDERED A CONTINUATION OF THAT PUBLIC HEARING, BECAUSE THIS HAS CHANGED SINCE THAT TIME.
SO I CONSIDER THIS A NEW PUBLIC HEARING ON THAT.
AND THE 90 DAY CLOCK WOULD NOT BEGIN TO NOW.
NOW, AGAIN, I'M NOT LEGAL STAFF ON THAT.
SO, UM, I DON'T KNOW IF GEORGE WANTS TO COMMENT ON THAT OR NOT.
UM, UH, COMMISSIONER MERCHANT OF, I GUESS, A FEW COMMENTS, ONE, AS YOU POINTED OUT LEGAL, WASN'T INVOLVED IN DRAFTING THE PROPOSALS HERE.
UM, SECONDLY, UNFORTUNATELY I WASN'T AT THE WORK SESSION, WHICH MAY HAVE HELPED BRING ME UP TO SPEED, BUT, UH, UM, ANY TIME YOU MAKE A DRASTIC, SIGNIFICANT CHANGE TO THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT, YOU'RE, IT'S A DO-OVER, YOU HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING.
UM, THE, THE BEST COURSE FORWARD AT THIS POINT, IT SOUNDS LIKE A WORK SESSION BACK TO A WORK SESSION.
WELL, WELL THERE ISN'T, THERE'S NOT A MOTION ON THE FLOOR YET TO, TO ACCEPT THIS.
CAN WE JUST GO TO A WORK SESSION WITHOUT HAVING EMOTION AND DOING ANYTHING WITH THIS? I BELIEVE THERE NEEDS TO BE A MOTION TO TABLE.
I'LL BE HAPPY TO MOVE THE TABLE.
WELL, I THINK THE PREFERRED MOTION IS TO POSTPONE RATHER THAN TABLE POSTPONED TO A, TO A DATE CERTAIN.
AND AGAIN, CAN THE MOTION STIPULATE THAT THERE'D BE A WORK SESSION OR A PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE DECISION, UH, LAW WOULD REQUIRE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING IN A WORK SESSION? WE CAN STIPULATE IN THE MOTION.
WE CAN STIPULATE A WORK SESSION IN OUR MOTION TO TABLE OR TO CARRY IT FORWARD.
[00:50:04]
AND AGAIN, I WOULD ONLY LIKE TO POINT OUT IT'S DIFFICULT DOING THIS WITHOUT A PLANNING DIRECTOR.DO WE HAVE ANY STATUS OF WHEN A NEW PLANNING DIRECTOR IS GOING TO BE WITH US? NO, THAT WAS GREAT.
WELL, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT WE ARE OF A MIND THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO, UH, RECONSIDER THIS, THAT I POSTPONED AND RECONSIDERED AT, UH, AT ANOTHER MEETING.
AND WE HAVE BEEN TALKING, WE'VE ALREADY HAD DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HAVING A WORK SESSION ON THE 30TH OF MAY.
UH, IF, IF, IF PEOPLE, JUNE, IF PEOPLE COULD MAKE THAT, THAT MIGHT BE THE TIME THAT MADE IT DO IT.
UNFORTUNATELY I'M OUT OF TOWN THAT DAY, JUNE, JUNE 30, I'M OUT OF TOWN.
HOW ABOUT OTHERS? WOULD YOU BE AVAILABLE REMOTELY? UM, JUNE 30.
UM, OUR NEXT MEETING, WHEREVER THEY'RE SCHEDULED MEETING, I THINK WE NEED MORE INFORMATION.
UH, NOT JUST MEETING THE NEXT MEETING.
WE WANT TO GET PAID ONE MEETING A MONTH.
SO YOU'RE SAYING, JUST ADD THE TECH TECH, THE WORK SESSION ON TO THE NEXT REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETING AFTER THE MEETING.
OH, IT WOULD BE JULY 12TH OR WHATEVER CHAIR CALLS MY 2 CENTS ON THAT IS THEN WE'RE PUSHING IT OUT ANOTHER MONTH.
I'D BE IN FAVOR OF A, I'M HOPING THEY'RE ALL OVER.
WELL, I I'M IN FAVOR OF, UM, HAVING A WORK SESSION IN TWO WEEKS TO, UM, GIVE US TIME TO COLLECT SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AND THEN BE ABLE TO REALLY DIG INTO THAT AS DEEPLY AS WE FEEL THAT WE CAN.
UM, WE'RE AT THE STAGE IN WHICH WHEN YOU'RE, YOU'RE PLANNING A PROGRAM, THE MONEY GENERALLY IS BEST SPENT EARLY IN THE PLANNING PROCESS RATHER THAN LATE, BECAUSE LATE YOU'RE DEALING WITH CHANGE FEES AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN BUILDINGS.
PLUS WE HAVE THIS OTHER, YES, RIGHT? YEAH.
UM, CHAIRMAN I MOVE THAT WE POSTPONE, UH, F R A Z O R D A M 25, 19 20 21 UNTIL THE JULY 21ST, 2021, A REGULAR SCHEDULED MEETING.
BEEN MOVED AND SECONDED THAT, THAT, THAT WILL BE RECONSIDERED AT THE NEXT REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETING.
UM, ANY, ANY QUESTIONS MS. PARKINSON? YOU WERE YES.
UM, THEN THE OTHER THING IS I W WE DO SOMETHING THEN, AS WE TALKED ABOUT ON THE 30TH, I'LL BE HAPPY TO CHANGE LANE YOUR MOBILE.
WE CAN TRY TO GET A ZOOM CALL THAT WAY IF YOU'RE TRYING TO AT LEAST ZOOM IN.
SO YOU CAN AT LEAST SEE KIND OF HOW WE DO WITH, UH, COMMISSIONER ANGERMAN THE OTHER NIGHT.
I THINK THAT'LL BE POSSIBLE IF SEMI ALL THE INFORMATION.
I THINK I WILL BE SOMEPLACE WHERE THERE'S AN INTERNET.
SO THE WORK SESSION IS THE 30TH.
ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT? SO WE HAVE ANOTHER WORK SESSION, AND THEN WE WOULD PLANNED TO HAVE THAT ON THE AGENDA FOR THE REGULAR MEETING AND JULY.
WELL, THE THIRD PUBLIC HEARING, I'D LIKE TO OPEN THAT PUBLIC HEARING FOR ZONING ORDINANCE, TEXT AMENDMENT NUMBER F R A Z O R D A M 27 25 DASH 2021 INITIATED BY THE FRONT ROYAL TOWN COUNCIL PURPOSE OF THE PROPOSED AMENDMENTS IS TO PERMIT THE REPAIR AND OUR COMPLETE RECONSTRUCTION OF NON-CONFORMING BLIGHTED
[00:55:01]
STRUCTURES ON NON-CONFORMING LOTS.SO, UM, MR. ROCK, YOU HAVE MORE INFORMATION FOR US ON THAT? YES.
SO THE ORDINANCE PROPOSED TEXT AMENDMENT, UH, WE ALL MET ON THE WORK SESSION AND LOOKED AT IT A COUPLE OF TIMES, UM, BASICALLY FOR BLIGHTED BUILDINGS WITHIN THE TOWN THAT HAD BEEN DEEMED BLINDED BY TOWN COUNCIL, UM, TO GIVE SOME INCENTIVES TO PROPERTY OWNERS, TO, UM, REPAIR AND OR REPAIR OR RECONSTRUCT.
UM, THE STRUCTURES ARE NON-CONFORMING LOTS OF RECORD.
I MEAN, WE CAN, AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY, UH, WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING.
DO WE HAVE ANYBODY TO SPEAK? HOW'S THAT END UP WITH THAT? I DON'T THINK I CAN CONTRIBUTE EVER LOOKING, READING THE ORDINANCE FURTHER.
I DON'T THINK I CAN CONTRIBUTE TO THAT.
WELL, I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING THEN AND, UH, WE'LL SEE WHAT, UH, OUR FELLOW HAVE, UH, HAVE TO OFFER.
I ONLY HAVE ONE QUESTION CHAIR, CHRIS, TO ASSIST, GIVE YOU THE TOOLS YOU NEED TO TAKE CARE OF DILAPIDATED AND BLIGHTED STRUCTURES IN THE TOWN OF FRONT ROYAL.
UH, WE STILL REQUIRED A BUILDING OFFICIAL AND A BUILDING INSPECTOR, UM, TO BE ABLE TO, UM, CONDEMN OR NOT NECESSARILY BLIGHT, BUT THERE'S SOME OTHER STEPS INVOLVED IN.
AND WHAT I DO AS THE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, UM, LOOKS ALONE.
THERE'S SOME OTHER ISSUES THAT DEAL ON THE BUILDING OR THE VIRGINIA BUILDING CODE THAT WOULD HELP, BUT THIS WILL ACTUALLY WOULD HELP WITH HOPEFULLY PROPERTY OWNERS ABLE TO FIX UP PROPERTIES THAT THEY'VE LEFT NEGLECTED OVER THE YEARS, KNOWING THAT BECAUSE IT WAS A NON-CONFORMING LOT, HER COULDN'T MEET ANY OF THE CURRENT SETBACK RULES.
UM, THEY JUST LET THEIR PROPERTIES CODE TO POT, I GUESS, OR I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROPER WORD WOULD BE WITHOUT IN THIS FORUM.
SO, UM, HELP ME KNOW, BUT HELP THE TOWN.
OR, YEAH, I GUESS THAT WOULD BE RIGHT.
SO I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC MEETING AND, AND, UM, I THINK WE CAN, OKAY.
CAN I JUST SAY SOMETHING FOR THE RECORD? SURE.
UM, AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN STUDYING MEDIEVAL HISTORY RECENTLY, I, I, I HAVE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF DISCOMFORT FOR THE STATE OF OUR REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY, BECAUSE IF YOU TAKE THESE SENTENCES WHERE THE WORD COUNCIL IS WRITTEN AND REPLACE IT WITH KING, WE ARE GIVING IT, WE'RE MAKING ALL OF THIS.
WE'RE OPENING THE DOOR TO POTENTIALLY NOT SAYING IT'S GONNA HAPPEN, BUT JUST POTENTIALLY IN PRINCIPLE MAKING THIS WHOLE PROCESS HIGHLY POLITICIZED SINCE IT'S THE TOWN COUNCIL THAT HAS TO DECLARE SOMETHING BLIGHTED, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS PUT AN OWNER OF BLIGHTED PROPERTIES ON TOWN COUNCIL, AND NOTHING'S GOING TO GET DECLARED BLIGHTED, UH, ET CETERA.
I MEAN, I'M, I'M NOT, I'M JUST SAYING FROM A HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE, UH, IF YOU SUBSTITUTE THE WORD KING FOR TOWN COUNCIL, YOU, YOU OPENED, UM, YOU OPENED THE DOOR TO DECREASING PUBLIC, WILL THE ACCESS PUBLIC WILL TO PUBLIC DECISIONS.
CURRENTLY THE BLIGHTED ORDINANCES HAS BEEN APPROVED BY COUNCIL NINE DASH 3 0 3 OF THE TOWN CODE.
THAT'S WHAT THE TOWN CODE STATES IS.
UM, THE PROCESS WOULD BE THAT IF WE HAVE A COMPLAINT OR WE THINK THE BUILDING IS BLINDED, I CAN'T TECHNICALLY CALL THE BUILDING BLINDED.
WE HAVE TO GATHER THE EVIDENCE, GET ALL THE INFORMATION TOGETHER AND THEN PRESENT IT TO COUNCIL AND THEY WOULD ACTUALLY PASS AN ORDINANCE.
SO A LOT MORE WOULD BE INVOLVED IN JUST SAYING
[01:00:01]
THAT BUILDING.SO WE'RE GOING TO TEAR IT DOWN SO RIGHT.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING IS IN PLACE RIGHT NOW.
SO COUNCIL COULD DO THAT IF THEY HAD THE PROPER APPROPRIATE PR PROPER PERSONNEL TO DO THE INSPECTIONS, UM, THIS JUST GIVES, AND, AND IF THERE WASN'T A LANDLORD OF BLADED PROPERTIES ON THE COUNCIL WHO HAD AN INTEREST IN MAKING SURE IT NEVER HAPPENED, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.
I MEAN, IT'S HYPOTHETICAL, IT'S HYPOTHETICAL, BUT THAT'S, WE'RE MAKING IT POSSIBLE.
THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING FROM A HISTORICAL LONG VIEW THERE.
DO WE HAVE A MOTION? ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE MR. CHAIRMAN? UM, FIRST I HAVE A COMMENT ON SECTION ONE, UH, THE WAY THAT IT, THE ADDITION OF THE TEXT READS NOW IS THAT A SPECIAL USE PERMIT COULD BE PASSED AT ANY TIME TO ALLOW FOR A DISCONTINUED LEGALLY NON-CONFORMING USE TO BE REINSTATED.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO PROPOSE THAT WE ADD A TEXT IN THERE TO CLARIFY THAT THAT SPECIAL USE PERMIT WOULD NEED TO BE APPROVED PRIOR TO THE TWO YEARS, THE TWO YEAR TIMEFRAME OF A NON-CONFORMING USE, UM, BEING ABANDONED BEFORE THAT TWO YEARS RUNS OUT.
UH, I, I THINK WITH ALFRED'S WRITTEN NOW IS REALLY VERY OPEN-ENDED.
AND I, I AGREE IN PRINCIPLE THAT IF FOR WHATEVER REASON IT WAS PART OF THE SPOT, UM, THE, UH, BLIGHTED BUILDING PLAN, AND IT TOOK LONGER THAN EXPECTED TO REBUILD THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULDN'T LOSE OUT BECAUSE IT TOOK LONGER TO REBUILD.
UH, AND I THINK THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT WOULD ACCOMPLISH THAT, BUT SHOULD NOT BE OPEN-ENDED.
ARE YOU, ARE YOU PROPOSING TO AMEND THIS DOCUMENT IS YES, BUT I'M STILL NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT ON HOW TO WORD IT.
BUT THERE'LL BE LIKE A CERTAIN, LIKE A CERTAIN TIME PERIOD SAY THE PERMIT HAD TO BE APPLIED BY LIKE, AFTER, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER WARDEN WHEN HE'S SAYING IT'S JUST A WAY OF, UH, SETTING A PARAMETER FOR IT, BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, IT IS, IT IS A LITTLE OPEN-ENDED, SO IT'S, UH, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING IN HERE THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME WITHIN THIS TWO PERIOD TWO YEAR PERIOD, LIKE, YOU KNOW, SAY 90 DAYS OR 188, WHAT DOES SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING TO SET SOME SORT OF TIME PERIOD.
I'M PROPOSING THAT JUST ANYTIME WITHIN THAT TWO YEAR WINDOW, THAT THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT SHOULD BE APPROVED.
WELL, I THINK THAT WINDOW EXISTS.
I JUST DON'T KNOW THE RIGHT WAY TO WORD IT, TO LIMIT THE SPECIAL USE TO IT, TO BE IN THAT TIMEFRAME.
UH, MR. CHAIR, I COULD, UM, I THINK THIS IS A CASE WHERE COUNCIL HAS CREATED THIS ORDINANCE CHANGE VIA THEIR LEGAL STAFF, CORRECT GRASS.
THIS HAS ALREADY BEEN CRAFTED, AND THIS IS WHAT COUNCIL WANTS, CORRECT.
I MEAN, TH TH THEY'RE REALLY NOT ASKING US TO CRAFT THIS ORDINANCE.
WHAT THEY'RE ASKING US TO DO IS TO CONDUCT A PUBLIC HEARING IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE STATE CODE ON THIS DOCUMENT, WE CAN EITHER VOTE IT UP OR DOWN.
BUT I'M NOT SURE WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO AMEND IT, I SUPPOSE WE COULD, BUT THEY WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY NO AND GO BACK TO WHATEVER.
WELL, I WOULDN'T SAY MOST, I MEAN, IT'S BEEN A MINUTE, A FEW TIMES IN THE WORK SESSION.
I MEAN, THAT'S WHERE MOST OF THE, WE MADE CORRECTIONS BASED OFF YOUR ALL'S INPUT, UM, DURING THE WORK SESSIONS, WHETHER OR NOT A MOTION TO AMEND JUST A COUPLE OF KEY WORDS.
AND BEFORE WE PRESENTED THE COUNCIL, I MEAN, COUNCIL MAY LIKE IT OR MAY NOT.
SO THEY MAY WANT TO AMEND IT BACK.
I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU PUT YOUR COMMENT AND WRITING AND SUBMIT IT TO STAFF, TO GIVE TO COUNCIL WITH THIS DOCUMENT, IF IT'S APPROVED OR DENIED, REGARDLESS WHETHER IT'S APPROVED OR DENIED TONIGHT AND ASK THEM TO CONSIDER IT.
PROBABLY I WOULD THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER TO HAVE IT, UH, HAVE US VOTE ON THAT BOAT ON HIS OWN.
IF THAT'S THE CASE, WE COULD, YOU KNOW, WE CAN GET APPROVED
[01:05:01]
AND I, BUT WE CAN IMPROVE, YOU KNOW, IF WE LISTEN TO THIS AS A CONDITION YEAH.WE CAN IMPROVE IT WITH THIS CONDITION.
SO IF YOU COULD COME UP WITH A FEW WORDS, NOW WE CAN MAKE IT, MAKE IT, UH, ER, APPROVAL SUBJECT TO THAT.
WELL, IF WE TALKING ABOUT DOING A CONDITIONAL APPROVAL OR RECOMMENDATION, COULD WE CONDITION THAT ON, UH, PLANNING AND LEGAL STAFF TO CRAFT THAT A TEXT WITH THE IDEA BEING, YOU KNOW, FOR THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO BE APPROVED WITHIN TWO YEARS? I THINK IF THEY HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME THAN ME SITTING HERE RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE GOING TO COME UP WITH A MUCH BETTER LANGUAGE.
MAYBE HALF OF THEM MIGHT, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT, UM, I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T THINK WE CAN APPROVE A MOTION, UM, WITH A, UH, UNSTATED AMENDMENT, UH, SAY LIKE WE HAVE TO APPROVE IT THE WAY IT IS OUR, OUR, OUR, AGAIN, THE OTHER OPTION IS TO, TO, UM, PUT IT OFF UNTIL THE NEXT MEETING.
UH, AT WHICH TIME WE WOULD HAVE THESE, UH, UH, CORRECTIONS, ADDITIONS, UH, CHAIRMAN, I THINK, UH, IF WE CAN GET ILLEGAL, I THINK THAT I LIKE THE, NOT THAT I'M THE LEGAL EXPERT, THE SUBMISSION OF AN ALTERNATIVE SECTION, UH, ONE, UM, WHEN IT GOES TO TOWN COUNCIL THAT THEY CAN REVIEW BOTH, BOTH INTERPRETATIONS AND THAT WAY THEY JUST NOT TO SLOW IT DOWN OR, YOU KNOW, MOVING FORWARD, THEY CAN TAKE THAT UNDER ADVISEMENT.
WOULD THAT BE THE PROPER PROCEDURE THERE, GEORGE? WELL, UH, I'M STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE DIRECTIVE FROM COUNCIL IS ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE PRIOR PUBLIC HEARING, UH, TEXT AMENDMENT.
IS IT NOT FOR THIS BODY TO GENERATE, UH, PROPOSED, UH, OR PROPOSED AMENDMENTS AND, AND THEN SUBMIT THEM? UM, IN OTHER WORDS, I'M NOT TAKING IT TO MEAN THAT, UH, THIS HAS TO BE, UH, VOTED UP OR DOWN IF I'M CORRECT ON THAT, THEN, UH, I THINK THE POSTURE IS THE SAME AS THE PRIOR ONE, WHICH IS, UH, IF, IF THIS BODY IS STRUGGLING WITH THIS LANGUAGE BACK TO A WORK SESSION AND POSTPONE, UH, A VOTE ON THIS UNTIL THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING.
WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT REQUIRE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING, IT DEPENDS ON WHAT COMES OUT OF THE WORK SESSION.
IF IT'S A, IF IT'S A MINOR CHANGE, UH, PROBABLY NOT ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING.
I AM, I'M, I'M, I'M I'M OF THE SAME MINDSET WITH YOU ON THAT.
SO, YEAH, I GUESS IF THERE IS NO OTHER OBJECTIONS, THEN WE WILL NOT TAKE ACTION.
UH, WE WILL NOT VOTE ON THIS, BUT WE WILL, UH, SEEK TO ALSO LOOK AT THAT ON, UH, THE, UH, UH, UH, JUNE 30TH, UH, WORK SESSION.
UH, WE COULD VOTE ON IT IF SOMEBODY MADE A MOTION.
AND WHEN WE LOOKED AT THIS WORK SESSION, YES.
WHAT YOU WANT COME UP IN THE WORK SESSION, IT CAME UP AT THE QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED, UM, TONIGHT WERE NOT RAISED IN THE WORK SESSION.
SO WE DIDN'T REALLY, I THOUGHT THE TIME FRAME WAS, UH, BROUGHT UP AT THE WORK SESSION AS WELL, BUT MAYBE THE, CAN WE JUST SIMPLY SAY MICROPHONE ON, OKAY.
HAS IT, UM, HAS THE STATES NOW, HOWEVER, THE TOWN COUNCIL MAY APPROVE, UM, LOOKING AT A SECTION 1 75, 1 26, OF COURSE, HOWEVER, THE TOWN COUNCIL MAY APPROVE BY USE OF SPECIAL PERMIT.
COULD WE JUST ADD, YOU KNOW, SPECIAL PERMIT, ESPECIALLY USE PERMIT, UH, APPLIED WITHIN TWO YEAR PERIOD? I MEAN, I THINK THAT WOULD, I MEAN, I THINK THAT WOULD, THAT WOULD, I THINK THAT WOULD JUST THAT WAY.
I UNDERSTAND COMMISSIONER GORDON'S POINT BECAUSE IT COULD JUST SAY, OKAY, WELL, AT WHAT POINT CAN YOU APPLY FOR THE SPECIAL PERMIT? COULD IT BE APPLIED FIVE YEARS DOWN THE ROAD? OR, I
[01:10:01]
MEAN, I'M JUST SAYING, BUT ANYWAYS, UM, BUT I JUST THINK ADDING A SIMPLE LINE OR A SIMPLE CALLING, YOU KNOW, JUST SAYING, HEY, WHAT'S MEANT BY SPECIAL PERMIT OR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT WITHIN THE PERIOD OF TWO YEARS, COMMISSIONER INGRAM.I THINK THE INTENT OF THAT SECTION WAS THE MAJORITY OF THE BUILDINGS THAT WE WOULD PROBABLY PUSH TO BE BLIGHTED THAT THEY'VE BEEN SITTING VACANT FOR MORE THAN THE TWO YEAR PERIOD.
SO BASICALLY THEY'D BE NONCONFORMING THAT WAY IS WHY I THINK IT WOULD, IT WOULD CATCHING ANY OF THOSE BUILDINGS.
AND, UM, COMMISSIONER GORDON, I THINK W WHAT THE SECTION WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE OTHER TIME PERIOD, IT WAS IN SECTION FOUR, UM, WHERE IT WAS NOT TO EXCEED ONE YEAR AFTER THE TIME PERIOD DETERMINED BY TOWN COUNCIL WAS THAT, THAT WAS THE OTHER SECTION.
WE TALKED ABOUT THE TIME PERIOD AT THE WORK SESSION.
IF I MAY, UH, CHIME IN ON THAT, I, I HAVE A RESEARCH, WE, I DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE, BUT I THINK THE TWO YEAR PERIOD IS ESTABLISHED BY CASE LAW RIGHT HERE, WHICH IS SO UNTIL THE TWO RUNS, YOU DON'T HAVE AN ABANDONMENT.
UM, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT FULL PERIOD RUN AND THEN THE REMEDIAL ACTION KICKS IN AFTER THAT, WHATEVER THAT REMEDIAL ACTION IS.
SO IF I MAY, MR. CHAIRMAN IS THE SPIRIT OF, THIS IS FOR THAT THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT TO BE APPLIED WITHIN THE TWO YEAR PERIOD, OR DID YOU EVER SEE AFTER TWO YEAR PERIOD? SO YEAH, THAT WAY, ANY, ANY NEW STRUCTURES, YOU KNOW, FIVE YEARS DOWN THE LINE AND OTHER PROPERTY WINDS UP ON THE LIST, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE NOT TO REQUIRE THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT.
IT WOULD HAVE TO BE CAUGHT A LITTLE BIT QUICKER.
I ACTUALLY, I THINK, I THINK MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT CLARIFIES THE POINT FOR ME.
SO, UM, ARE WE STILL, ARE YOU STILL WANTING TO PUT LIKE APPLIED AFTER A TWO YEAR PERIOD IN THERE ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING? WELL, I THINK AT THIS POINT ADDING THAT TEXT IS NOT NEEDED.
UM, I THINK MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE INTENT IS THAT IT IS OPEN-ENDED TO CAPTURE STRUCTURES THAT CURRENTLY ARE VACANT AND WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO APPLY WITHIN A TWO YEAR PERIOD.
SO IF THAT'S THE INTENT, THEN I THINK IT, IT ACCOMPLISHES THAT.
WELL, I WOULD NOTE IN SECTION THREE, UM, WE SHOULD STRIKE NOTE IN THE FOLLOWING TEXT SECTION THREE.
SO WHAT IT WILL BE OUT OF THERE, WE ACTUALLY MADE THAT NOTE ON PURPOSE BECAUSE AFTER REVIEWING IT A FEW OR A FEW TIMES, IT, IT, IT MADE IT LIKE THE RED LINE OR THE RED TEXT.
IT WAS BASICALLY SAYING THE SAME THING AS THE NON CORRECTIVE.
AND WE JUST, PROBABLY, WHEN WE LOOKED AT IT, IT KIND OF SEEMED REDUNDANT TO US.
SO WE JUST WANTED CLARIFICATION IF IT SEEMED REDUNDANT TO YOU TO LEAVE THAT IN OR TAKE THAT PORTION OUT.
SO ALL THAT I GET THAT WE HAVE AGREED UPON NOW IS TO CHECK OUT THE NOTE.
SO WE HAVE, UH, WE HAVE A MOTION, UM, SORRY, JUST MR. BROCK.
WHAT, WHAT WERE YOU SAYING IS THE REDUNDANT TEXT, ARE YOU SAYING THE ENTIRE TEXT AND SECTION THREE? YEAH.
WELL, YEAH, I THAT'S, YEAH, IT'S BASICALLY THE SAME, EXCEPT FOR THE APPROVAL THOUGH.
SPECIAL USE PERMIT BY TOWN COUNCIL.
AND THEN IT GOES TO TOWN COUNCIL MAY APPROVE BY A SPECIAL USE PERMIT THE EXPANSION NONCONFORMITIES IF SAYING, IT'S SAYING IT IN A DIFFERENT WAY, BUT KIND OF SAYING THE SAME THING, IT JUST SEEMED
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I MEAN, IF YOU DON'T SEE IT THAT WAY, THEN WE'LL LEAVE IT IN THERE.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST, IT SEEMED KIND OF REDUNDANT TO US WHEN WE WROTE IT OR ACTUALLY NOT WHEN WE WROTE IT, BUT AFTERWARDS REVIEWING IT KIND OF MAKES IT
[01:15:07]
MY READING IS THAT IT, IT WOULD BE REDUNDANT BECAUSE YEAH, EXCEPT BY APPROVAL OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT.SO WE'RE SAYING YOU COULD GET A SPECIAL USE PERMIT TWICE TO DO THE SAME THING, CORRECT? YES.
THAT'S THE WAY WE, WE LOOKED AT IT.
I THINK HEARING BOTH THE CONCERN ABOUT A TWO YEAR AND THEN GIVEN THE ASSURANCE THAT A TWO YEAR, UH, ISSUE AS COVERED IN ANOTHER PLACE, THEN IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE DON'T HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY REASON THAT I CAN SEE TO NOT GO AHEAD AND APPROVE THIS BY DELETING THE RED LINE IN SECTION THREE.
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THE NOTE TO SELF AND ALSO THIS WHOLE LANGUAGE, MR. CHAIRMAN, I MOVE THAT WE APPROVE F R Z O R D A N 27 25, 20 21, UH, WITH THE DELETION OF RED LINE TEXT UNDER SECTION THREE, SECTION 1 38, RIGHT.
SORRY, SECTION 1 75, 1 30 POINT A, RIGHT.
ANY OTHER, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, IF NOT, I'D LIKE TO, UM, HAVE A VOTE ON THAT AS POTTER VICE CHAIRMAN MARSH NER.
[VI. Consent Agenda]
WE HAVE A CONSENT AGENDA.THANK YOU FOR WORKING THROUGH THOSE ISSUES.
I MOVE, UH, FOR APPROVAL OF THE CONSENT AGENDA, FRONT ROLE SIGNED AS 0 0 2 7 1 3 DASH 2 0 2 1 SECOND.
UH, I HADN'T EVEN GOTTEN THAT UP ON PAPERCLIP YET, BUT UH, I'M OKAY.
ARE THERE ANY, YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT.
UNLESS YOU WANT TO TAKE IT OFF THE CONSENT, RIGHT.
WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO DISCUSS IT.
YOU HAVE TO VOTE TO TAKE IT ON.
THAT'S HAVING A VOTE ON THIS THEN.
THAT MOTION PASSES AND, UH, VERY GOOD.
UH, WE HAVE NO OLD BUSINESS ON OUR, UH, AGENDA.
[VIII. New Business]
NEW BUSINESS LISTED AS CHAPTER 1 48 AND 1 75 ORDINANCE AMENDMENTS TO GO TO WORK SESSION.AND I BELIEVE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, AGAIN, THIS IS OUR WORK SESSION SCHEDULED FOR, UH, UH, JUNE 30TH.
IS THAT CORRECT? NOTHING ELSE OTHER THAN, YEAH.
UM, I DON'T, WE DON'T NEED TO VOTE ON THAT.
HOW ABOUT COMMISSION MEMBER REPORTS? OKAY.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS TO BE A REPORT OR NOT, BUT UNDER THAT RESOLUTION, UM, I DO TAKE ISSUE WITH ONE OF THE PARAGRAPHS IN THAT RESOLUTION.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PROPER FORMAT IS TO, UH, EXPRESS MY CONCERN OVER IT.
NOW, IS THAT IN MY COMMENT SECTION OR WOULD THAT, WHICH RESOLUTION ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? MONDAY, A RESOLUTION PERTAINING OR A RESOLUTION INITIATING PROPOSED TEXT AMENDMENTS TO THE REGULATIONS OF THE FRONT ROLL SUBDIVISION AND LAND DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE.
I BE THE 1, 2, 3, 4 THE FIFTH.
WHEREAS, UM, IT'LL BE UNDER NEW, THE
[01:20:01]
NEW BUSINESS FOLDER.UH, THAT, THAT PARAGRAPH READS AND I QUOTE, WHEREAS IT IS FOUND THAT DESIGNATING THE PLANET COMMISSION WITH AUTHORITY TO APPROVE MAJOR SITE PLANS MAY INTERFERE OR CONFLICT WITH THE POWERS OF THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND EVEN THAT OF THE TOWN COUNCIL AND THE REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF THEIR RESPECTIVE ZONING APPLICATIONS, AS WELL AS ADDING TIME AND COST TO THE ZONING REVIEW AND DECISION MAKING PROCESS OF BOTH FORMS OF PERMIT APPROVAL.
WE ARE NOT AN APPROVAL AUTHORITY.
ALL WE DO IS MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE DIRECTOR IN THE CASE OF BI-RITE SITE PLANS AND TO COUNCIL AND THE, UH, EVENT OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT APPLICATION.
WE DO NOT HAVE A CONFLICT WITH THE PLANNING DIRECTOR OR COUNCIL ON ANY ITEMS. UM, THE ONLY CONFLICT MAY COME WITH AN APPLICANT THAT HAS AN INCOMPLETE APPLICATION, AND WE WILL DENY THAT THAT APPLICATION, UH, SHOULD PROCEED BECAUSE IT'S INCOMPLETE.
BUT I WANNA POINT OUT CLEARLY THAT WE ARE NOT AN APPROVAL AUTHORITY.
WE ARE MERELY A REVIEW WITH AUTHORITY.
AND THE SECOND, THE ITEM ON THAT IS THAT, UM, IT ADDS TIME AND COST TO THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.
I ALSO TAKE EXCEPTION TO THAT.
DEVELOPERS ARE VERY WELL, VERY AWARE OF THE APPROVAL PROCESS, WHERE REVIEW OF SITE PLANS.
THE TIME THAT WE SUPPOSEDLY ADD TO IT IS MERELY A PLANNING ISSUE.
MOST OF THE TIMES A DEVELOPER IS NOT EVEN READY FOR A FINAL SITE PLAN UNTIL WE MEET TO DISCUSS, UH, IN A PRELIMINARY SETTING, SUCH AS A WORK SESSION, WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, AND THEN THEY PROCEED AND PROVIDE THAT FINAL DOCUMENT.
UM, AS FAR AS COST, IF ANYTHING, WE'VE SAVED DEVELOPERS MONEY BY LOOKING AT PROJECTS IN A PRELIMINARY PHASE, UH, AND, AND LISTENING TO THEIR SUGGESTIONS, THEY LISTENED TO OUR COMMENTS AND ARE ABLE TO DEVELOP A GAME PLAN BECAUSE IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE TO DESIGN SOMETHING AND THEN CHANGE IT.
IT'S MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE TO DO A PRELIMINARY REVIEW EARLY AND THEN CHANGE IT AS YOU GO IN THE PROCESS.
SO I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THAT PARAGRAPH, AND I KNOW THAT WAS WRITTEN BY OUR PREVIOUS DIRECTOR AND IT MAY HAVE COME OUT OF, UM, THE ISSUE WE HAD WITH JOE STEAKHOUSE.
IF YOU RECALL, WE REVIEWED A SITE PLAN THAT HE HAD APPROVED THAT WAS IN FACT, JUST MERELY A PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN.
AND, UH, AGAIN, OUR CONFLICT WAS NOT WITH HIM, WAS NOT WITH THE SITE PLAN ON THE MERE FACT THAT WE COULD NOT GIVE THE FINAL APPROVAL FOR A PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN.
SO I HAVE NO PROBLEM WORKING TO DEVELOP A SMOOTHER PROCESS, NONE AT ALL.
UH, I COMMEND THE COUNCIL FOR, FOR LOOKING AT THAT BECAUSE WE DO NEED TO FIND WAYS TO IMPROVE OUR PROCESS, BUT IT'S REALLY NOT THE PROCESS IF YOU REALLY WANT TO HELP DEVELOPERS AND SAVE MONEY AND SAVE COSTS.
LOOK AT OUR, OUR, OUR REQUIREMENTS FOR SITE PLANS ARE, ARE, ARE DETAILED REQUIREMENTS.
UM, THE PROCESS IS NOT COSTING MONEY, BUT IN TAKE AN EXAMPLE OF A PRELIMINARY PLAN, IF YOU LOOK AT OUR REQUIREMENTS FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAN, THEY ARE ALMOST THE SAME FOR A FINAL SITE PLAN.
SO THE DEVELOPERS HAVE TO SPEND A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY, ESPECIALLY IN SUBDIVISION DEVELOPMENT, TO PREPARE A DOCUMENT THAT A PRELIMINARY PLAN SHOULD ONLY BE A GUIDING DOCUMENT, NOT THE FINAL DESIGN, BUT WE REQUIRE SO MUCH, UH, INFORMATION THAT REALLY ISN'T PERTINENT TO A PRELIMINARY DESIGN.
SO I SUGGEST, AND I'M GOING TO RECOMMEND THE COUNCIL THAT WE LOOK AT CHANGING DETAILED REQUIREMENTS, NOT THE PROCESS OF REVIEW, BUT ACTUALLY WHAT WE REVIEW.
I SPOKEN MORE TONIGHT AND I SPOKEN SINCE THE COVID CAME ON.
WELL, CERTAINLY IS REASONABLE.
I'M NOT SURE HOW WE CAN, UM, IF, IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO ABOUT THIS UNDERSTAND, BUT I ASSUME THERE WILL BE SOME KIND OF DOCUMENT COMING AT OUR WORK SESSION,
[01:25:01]
UH, INDICATING WHAT THEY WANT OR WHATEVER OUR DIRECTOR INTERPRETS, WHAT COUNCIL WANTS US TO DO, I ASSUME.UH, BASICALLY IT SEEMS LIKE YOU ARE ASSUMING THAT, THAT THE COUNCIL MIGHT, UH, BE WILLING TO, UH, MODIFY, CLARIFY THEIR STANCE, CORRECT.
AS YOU REMEMBER AT OUR WORK SESSION, WHEN WE DISCUSSED THIS BEFORE MR. NAPIER TOWN ATTORNEY WAS THERE.
AND, UM, UH, HE DIDN'T DISAGREE WITH MY STATEMENT AT THAT POINT, BUT, UH, SUGGESTED THAT WE CONVEY THAT IN SOME FORM TO THE COUNCIL.
SO EITHER, UH, AND AGAIN, IN THE NORMAL WORLD, WE WOULD USE OUR PLANNING DIRECTOR FOR THAT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE A PLANNING DIRECTOR, UH, THAT DEALS SPECIFICALLY WITH COUNCIL.
UM, SO UNTIL WE GET A, AS A MATTER OF FACT AT THIS, AT OUR WORK SESSION, I'M, I'M SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING RECOMMENDING THAT WE NOT EVEN LOOK AT ANY OF THIS UNTIL THEY GIVE US A DIRECTOR.
I MEAN, WE, WE GOTTA HAVE HELP THIS STUFF IS REQUIRES WORK.
AND, AND, YOU KNOW, THESE GUYS ARE OVERLOADED WITH JUST RUNNING THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS OF THE OFFICE.
UM, SO, SO WE NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP.
CAN I MAKE, MAKE A COMMENT ON THAT? YES.
WE ACTUALLY DO HAVE, UM, CONTRACTED OUT TO OUR K AND K FOR, UM, SOME TYPE OF DIRECTOR HELP FOR 16 HOURS A WEEK BASED OFF THE WORKLOAD.
SO WE'RE TRYING TO GET SOMEONE IN THERE THAT ACTUALLY CAN REVIEW ORDINANCES AND THE TEXT AMENDMENT AND SO FORTH.
BUT THEIR CONTRACT IS MAINLY FOR PLAN REVIEW, RIGHT? NO, THIS IS PERMANENT.
SO THESE WILL ACTUALLY BE, SO WE HAVE TWO SEPARATE CONTRACTS WITH OUR K AND K FOR THE SITE PLAN REVIEW, AND DO COME IN AND BASICALLY WORK IN THE OFFICE TO DO, TO RUN THE OFFICE AS A DIRECTOR AND REVIEWING SITE OR ORDINANCES, TEXT AMENDMENTS, AND SO FORTH.
WELL, HOW COME THEY'RE NOT HERE TONIGHT? THEY HAVEN'T BEEN CONTRACT.
I THINK, UH, TUESDAY YOU'LL BE, BE IN THE OFFICE AND LET'S BRING THEM ON.
CAN I JUST ALSO MENTION THAT BACK TO THAT REZONING, IT DID GO TO DAVID BEAM AND HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY COMMENTS.
WE ADJOURN THE MEETING SECOND.
THAT MEANS WE ARE ADJOURNING WITHOUT TAKING ACTION ON THIS, THAT CORRECT.
I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S ACTION NEEDED.
NOW WE COULD STILL WANT TO TAKE IT TO KNOW.
I THOUGHT THIS WAS JUST MOVING TO THE WORK SESSION WE CAN.
I, I COULD BE WRONG, BUT THERE IS NO, THERE IS NOTHING ACTUALLY TO TAKE ACTION ON.
IT'S JUST PUTTING IT ON THE AGENDA BEFORE THE FIRST SESSION.
WHATEVER THEY WANT TO DO, WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.
WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN CONSULTANT.
POTTER, CAN YOU SEE IF WE ARE READY TO ADJOURN? YES, SIR.
COMMISSIONER MERCHANT, CHAIRMAN JONES.